BILFPOD - Stop Chasing, Start Attracting: Mike C-Rock’s Formula for Podcasting Success

Episode Date: April 16, 2026

🎙️ The Podcasting GOAT Reveals His Secrets to Going Viral & Building a Network | Mike C Rock In this episode of The Bill's Pod, Myra sits down with Mike C Rock—podcast host, entrepreneur, networking powerhouse, and founder of That One Agency and Quantum Expansion. Mike went from running a mortgage operation from Philadelphia to Miami to building a 2.2 million following and appearing on over 1,200 podcasts in 5 years. This one is PACKED with value. 🔥 In This Episode We Cover the Following: How Mike walked away from a lucrative mortgage business at 40 to reinvent himself Why most entrepreneurs are in "chase mode" and how to flip to an attraction model The podcasting strategy that created omnipresence across all social platforms How to land big-name guests even when nobody knows who you are Why your environment and the people around you will make or break your success The "tank vs trunk" mindset that separates winners from victims What Quantum Expansion is and why it's changing lives 3 simple steps to launching and growing your podcast TODAY 📲 Connect with Mike C Rock: Instagram: @MikeyCRock 📌 Don't forget to LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, and hit the notification bell so you never miss an episode of The Bill's Pod—where authenticity trumps authority.

I remember my dad when I was 11, 10 or 11 years old. He crumpled up a $100 bill and threw it at me and said, here, you're going to need this when you're living on the streets with your mother one day. I got it from all angles. And most of the time it comes from the people closest to you. Try to chop you down. It took me a very long time to get rid of people in my life that weren't cheering me on and that weren't aligned with what I wanted to do. But you want to be surrounded by people that are in your corner and your greatest fans and your biggest cheerleaders. Welcome to the BiltzPod, Mike C.

He really is the goat of podcasting. The only way you fail is if you quit, you don't keep going. Until I'm plucked from this planet, I'm going to figure out how far I can take this thing. Welcome back to the Billspod. We're authenticity trumps authority. Now, I am so excited about today's guest because he really, is the goat of podcasting. He hosts a huge podcast himself. And I mean, he's just a force and a presence. He is his own persona, his own brand. Welcome to the Bill of Pod, Mike C. Woo! I am so happy to have

you on. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Mara. Appreciate it. I, I'm very thankful and humble to be here. Well, I, I mean, we're just going to, we're going to have like an authentic conversation. We'll talk about what you don't want to talk about, what you do want to talk about. But, you know, podcast which is you've been doing this for how long? Six years, I guess now? 2019, I started. Now, serious question. Before you started podcasting, who was Mike C?

I ran a mortgage operation and from Philadelphia to Miami. I was running a company and scaled it to the point where I was working maybe three hours a week in it and then playing golf and networking. Yeah. You know, but I hated the business, though. And I was making a lot of money and the money became a trap. Right. That's what led me into my next journey.

So what is something that you learned while doing mortgages that you never, that you didn't know coming into that space? Well, you know, when I first got in, it was like a survival mode, I needed to make money, right? I started as a loan officer. And then it was all about money and transactions, money and transactions. And then I started as I went through, you know, you have people come and go, turnover, culture was terrible, and I just didn't like it. And I said, you know what, there's got to be an answer to this. So I started hanging around people that have built companies and reading books and

started realizing the importance of relationships and serving, being a servant leader and culture and how important these things were and how important your employees' personal goals were. Right. And how they had to align with the companies for things to work out. There's a lot of lessons in there, for sure. So you ended up, I mean, you didn't really love what you were doing, which I think is important. You have to love what you do. And then I think culture follows it. And then finally you were like, I'm just out. I'm not doing this anymore. Yeah, I hit 40 and I felt trapped. And I was just like, man. And it was, you know, the mortgage business is weird. Like if rates go up because of market conditions or economy or whatever, you could lose 80% of your business and not be able to do anything

about it. And I didn't like that lack of control. And I also, it was always a 911 with everything. it seemed like, you know. A lot of real estate agents, I hate to say this, but they're living paycheck to paycheck. Everything is on the line for them. And if that deal doesn't close, when they think it should close, they get pissed at you. And it might be something you're waiting for from them. It might be an appraiser that's supposed to get you something. You're waiting.

You've got the keys to the transaction. You're not going to clear the loan to close until you have everything because you've got to protect yourself. And we always made the bad guy. And then when you did a good job, nobody ever really showed appreciation. I was just like, I'm not living my life like this. Yeah, forget it. Yeah. So then at 40, which I love that you said at 40, because I feel like sometimes people feel,

you know, by 40, you know, you kind of have to stick with what you're doing. But that's not true, especially in this day and age. You can literally reinvent yourself. So now you're 40 years old. You decide, you know what, this is not for me. And six years ago, I mean, I think that was where podcasting kind of started, you know, it was starting to creep up and everything. And people really got into podcasting.

What made you, I mean, that's a, that's, that's, that's a huge transition. You went from mortgages. I mean, that's two opposite ends of the spectrum. Yeah, you know, in the mortgage game, it's very hard to differentiate yourself. It's all about who's got the best rates, close the cost, close the fastest, whatever.

And I just didn't like that lack of differentiation. And you mentioned authenticity. I just wanted to create something where I found out who I was, strengths, weaknesses, insecurities, passions, and be able to lean into it unapologetically. And I got around some of the greatest mentors, on the planet. I started reading their books. I became friends with them, hanging out with them, just seeing what they've done. And I started to realize the importance of getting known.

Right. Like, how can anybody do anything with you? How can you help anybody if nobody knows who you are? And then if you don't know who you are. So the first part is like really identifying who am I, who do I want to be? What does that person think about? What does that person say and to speak like? What do they do? What actions do they take? And just as important, who are they around? Yeah. What's their environment look like? And I started designing this at 40-some years old. And it's evolved since then, even.

I'm 49 now. I was just over 40 when I got into this. So what happened, I started really leaning into who I am. And then one of my mentors said, dude, you've got to get known globally. Yeah. I'm like, for what? I got a successful business here regionally. Like, what do I need to get known globally for?

I'm not doing an international business. He said, trust me, you will create an attraction model. because right now you're in chase mode 99% of people are in chase mode and you cannot be fulfilled. You cannot reach your potential in chase mode. He's like, you've got to create this attraction model

and what this will do for you is it'll make everything easier that you do going forward. And this ecosystem that you're about to build because I can see it coming, he said, is going to benefit from this attraction model you create. And I'm like, that makes sense. How do I do that?

How do I go get on globally? He said, go get on podcasts. Bingo. So talk a little bit because I mean, I was in the same genre or that same, you know, where I was coming. I mean, I'm in. I currently still am in insurance. But for somebody that wants to kind of jump into something else, can you talk a little bit about the importance of the ecosystem in the community and why that's a first

step for so many people? Yeah. First of all, we all underestimate what we can achieve. Yeah. What we're actually capable of. There was a story about an intelligence officer that supposedly, and I don't know if aliens are real, but he spoke to an extraterrestrial. And one of the things, that really stuck out to me about this was he said the extraterrestrial said to him you human beings really truly don't know how much you're capable of and I was like wow that's powerful even if it's real or it's not real right but just the lesson right that and then I started think okay so if that's the case let me see how far I can take this thing right now one thing I figured out was you mentioned the people yeah you can't do everything by yourself the most amazing things

you can do are going to take people and they're going to take right people. So for me, I like building authentic relationships going deep and looking for ways to serve people. And eventually when you do that over and over and over again, you start to create this network of people that understand, hey, this person's here for me. He's championing me. He looked to serve me first before trying to do anything for himself. And so that combined with going on over 7 to 10 podcasts a week for five years straight, over 1,200 podcast appearances just built and blew up this amazing thing called that one network. Now I have people and I don't care what they do.

I don't care if they're insurance, health and wellness, real estate, it doesn't matter. I'm just looking for good, hearted, servant leaders. Because if they have that part, what they do can add to the mix. Yeah, absolutely. No, I love that. I mean, that's, I believe in that 100% serving people, that servitude where you work for people, people don't work for you. And then from there, you create this incredible community.

which you have, and I know that you're very big into connecting people, whether you get something from it or not. And I do believe that when you, you know, for me, one thing that I've learned is income is the outcome that can't be your objective. There has to be something more than that. So now, you know, just flipping backwards. So now you're in your 40s, how many people kind of doubted you and we're like, oh, you can't do this. You have to stay where you're comfortable, what you know. How much backlash did you get from people around you? Great question because I did experience that, right? And most of the time it comes from the people closest to you.

You see, people give up on their dreams, their own dreams. They can't visualize for themselves what you're doing and what your vision is. So they'll try to chop you down, right? I'd have people throwing digs at me like, why don't you go do your podcast? You do a podcast? When I started going and traveling and things like, you know, I had to be away from my family. So, you know, we had to adjust that in our relationship in, you know, my house. but I got it from all angles

and you just have to be so committed and clear on what you're trying to do and surround yourself with the right people that champion you and lift you up and encourage you otherwise it'll suppress you and you'll pull you back and you won't go where you're supposed to go and that's big for me and I started to realize who I needed to keep in my environment

and who I needed to exit from my environment. Bingo, I think that's a huge point that you made is that we keep these people around us I call them the, there's a book actually about, you know, the energy, the energy bus, or these vampire, they're a vampire. What are they energy? Energy vampires. They're thinking.

I couldn't think of it. Yeah. And they, they suck out all the energy. But in reality, what they're doing is they're jealous. It's jealousy. And all of those people, I had to make a definitive choice. It took me a very long time to get rid of people in my life that weren't cheering me on and that weren't aligned with what I wanted to do.

Whether they, you know, whether they thought podcasting was great, but you want to be surrounded by people that are in your corner and your greatest fans and your biggest cheerleaders. So it is hard. How many people did you have to get rid of? Oh, tons. You know, and it's not, it's not that they're bad people, right? It's just that you're not aligned and you're not supposed to carry on life at this point with them.

And, you know, when you keep the wrong people around you, it's not that they hold you back. It's also you hold them back. Yeah, absolutely. And I've seen people advance once I cut off relationship with them. I've seen them advance in their own life, you know. And, you know, I've had, I had people say, who are you to have a podcast? Right? I've had people say that to me before or, you know, different weird things like that.

And I, you know what I do? I push the pedal down harder when I hear that. You know, I started my tank, my fuel tank and used it as fuel and convert it into energy. Yeah. Most people keep things in their trunk. Yeah. Slows them down and weighs them down. I don't do that.

And my whole life, I realized that I've been doing this from the upbringing that I've had, the brokenness that I came from, I realized subconsciously my whole life I've always been putting things in my tank instead of my trunk. Yes, I love that. I love that analogy. I think we talked about it too when I did your podcast, which you, so gratefully let me come on. But I love that analogy

because I think that's where me and you are very similar that there's always going to be shit that happens, negative things that happen. You can do one of two things. You know, you can become the victim or you can use that to ignite your fire to propel you forward. And a lot of people use it as the victim mentality or the woe is me

or, you know, why me type the thing and taking that energy and making it, you know, that's the same thing. I love it. If you tell me I can't do something, I'm going to do it. And I'm going to do it times 10. Well, and I think you also have to put your steak in the ground and stand 10 toes down, right? Like I wrote a book called Rocket Fuel Convert Setbacks become unstoppable because I wanted the public to know that you could not come to me with this stuff unless you wanted to fuel me. You're just going to fuel me. So I stuck my steak in the ground and I don't have the book here, but like anybody want to check it out. And I'll put it in there. I'll put it in the notes. Okay. Thank you. It's got.

stories in there of how this all played out. But I really wanted to publicly profess that if you try to disturb what I'm trying to do, all you're doing is adding fuel to the fire. And it's going to be bigger than you ever could imagine. So you might as well not even do that. Yeah. I know I love the haters. If you don't have a whole bunch of haters, then you're not doing, you're not making it in life. Those haters really do propel my energy to go forward because those are the ones that I'm looking at in front of me, not back of me. I'm like, okay, you're the goal. You're the target and I'm going to show you that not only can I do it, but I can do it times 10 and make it that much better.

So I love those. Yeah. Well, there's some important distinction here, though. So early on when you're on a journey, it's important to use that fuel, okay? But that fuel is not a really clean, high octane fuel. It's kind of dirty. Yeah. So one thing I realized was when I started getting to a certain level, I was like, that fuel's

not going to take me to where I want to go anymore. So what is my new fuel? And my new fuel, it became my visions and the things that I would put out. in the future that I wanted to cause and create. And that's like a higher octane fuel that propels you way faster, way further. And so for me, those things now, like, they don't even, like, play a part in it. People say stuff, I just let it roll off. It just bounces off.

Now I have such big visions and where I want to go and what I want to build that that's my high octane fuel because my engine has been refined. Yeah. It makes sense. I mean, it makes total sense. And it's funny because as you're doing well, you watch, you can see in the rear view mirror what they're doing. Like they're in the background knowing and they want to be on your podcast now.

I'm sure. I'm sure they want to get on. How many people have come back to you and said, Hey, man, listen. Can I kind of get on there? Maybe I was a little wrong. Of course. Early on,

I've asked people that were bigger names like come on my show. How many downloads you have? I'm like, okay, just wait. And I didn't even answer them. Just wait. Because I didn't have any downloads early on, right?

Like I said, just wait. They'll want to come on. And so now, you know, now when I DM people, I DM people every day on Instagram, constantly.

people I want to connect with, whether I want to have them with my show or just get to know them, build them into the network. And everybody answers my DMs now. You know, I'm talking to celebrities. I'm talking to athletes. I'm talking to billionaires. Like, it's just wild now. But early on, it wasn't like that necessarily. You know, and so, yeah, for sure, it changes. But you got to keep going. That's the key. One thing about me is that in morning time, you know, everybody wakes up different feelings and emotions in the mornings in different states. When I'm in a situation where some adversities going on or I just don't feel like something. I just tell myself, keep going, dude.

Keep going. Because I know if you keep going, everything always works out. Absolutely. I agree. I'm the same thing. Like I can compartmentalize. That's definitely a big trick is if you can compartmentalize and focus on what you have going on, like there's always going to be shit over here.

Always. I don't care. I mean, I walked in this morning. I have a whole bunch of shit going on in my life right now. But I'm here and I'm intentional and focused on you. So whatever's going on over here, it really doesn't matter because the goal is focus on what's going on here. But you said something really important, and I've heard Alex Ramosi talk about this, the power of really working your business. And you were saying early on,

you know, you reached out to people and you still do today, even with a successful podcast, can you talk a little bit about that how, you know, regardless, you're still working your business and you're reaching out to people that you might have thought that were out of your league? Well, remember what the alien said. We have no idea what we're capable of, right? So if I get to a certain level, whether it's notoriety, business level, success financially, whatever, is that really as far as I'm going to take it? So that's not the case for me. I know that's not the case. So for me, I learned this from some great mentors I had. I pretend every morning and when I wake up that nobody's ever heard of me. I love that. And so that keeps me on my toes and keeps me going. And, you know,

every single day I have five to eight, 15 minute networking calls with perfect strangers. I hope the viewers are listening to this. I really do. it's so important that that's why people fail is because they they give up way too soon and anybody will tell you this hard work is going to beat out talent every single time it's why people fail it's because they won't keep going in the minute they're not experiencing success because we're in an age of instant gratification they give up but i love what you said i mean you're six years in the business a ton of followers and yet you're still working your business you're still working out you're still working it to where you're you're reaching out networking that that just speaks

volumes about who you are as a person and your character as well as your business that you're building. Yeah, I mean, I've been built into this, you know, it's been, it's been an evolution, you know, and I, uh, you know, there's things to go through my heads too much too much, sometimes where I'm like, man, I should be so much further along. But I think they were right where we're supposed to be. But I do have that thought sometimes like, man, like, yeah, because you make mistakes, you know, and you got learning lessons that you have to go through and money goes, comes and goes. And, you know, I'm just like, man,

I wish I would have known better. But if you would have known better earlier, you got to give yourself grace because if you would have known earlier on, you knew better, you would have made different decisions and you would have been a different place, of course. But if you didn't know, what are you supposed to do?

So you have to get this knowledge as you go along and start implementing that knowledge into your life. And then you start to see. But by the way, I have a firm belief that once you hit 40 and then into 50, there's times where people have had life, like they had these lessons and their graph was just like this. And then it was down a little bit and up,

a little bit down a little bit. And it was just gradually going up. But when you hit in the 40s and the 50s, there's a chance if you keep going, that you have a rocket ship trajectory. And that's what I firmly believe. And I've seen it. You know,

you've seen some of the most famous people, most successful business people out there. They didn't get that until they hit 50. Yeah, I would 100% agree with you. My uncle used to tell me before I turned 40, which I can't even believe that I admitted that I'm in my 40s. But my uncle used to tell me in my 30s, he used to say, Mara, I'm telling you, when you hit 40, something is going to happen.

And all of a sudden, like all of these, like, non things that, like, things are not going to matter. And you're going to skyrocket. Watch. You're going to, I'm telling you, he's like, your personality changes, your demeanor changes. You have more life. You have more life lessons. You know what you want. You know what you don't want.

It is going to be a complete. game changer and I promise you when I turn 40, everything changed. Everything. Confidence changed. My ability to grow changed. Relationships changed. Everything. Yeah. It's funny you say that because I had readers on today when I was reading this morning. And I'm like, man, I actually destroyed on my Instagram. I said, man, did these things make me look old? I don't feel old. I still feel in my like 30s, maybe early 30s. My wife was telling me a story about a lady that she's a real estate agent. And she was telling me about a lady that she was working with. She was 46 and she was going on it.

And I said, 46. That sounded old to me when you first said that. Like, it was an old lady. Yeah. And I'm up 49. So I don't feel that. It's funny you say that. I just think it's a different age now.

Before, I remember when we were in our 20s, we're thinking 30s. Oh, wow. That's old. 40s. Oh, man. 50s. Oh, but now people, I think people are living longer. They, but really in your 40s is when you really take on the

persona of who you are inside and out. And you touched on that at the beginning. It's knowing who you are inside before you can do anything else and really believing in yourself. Yeah. And a lot of people don't lean into that because they don't know the how. Right. Like how could that happen?

I don't know how to do that. You don't get the how. You don't get the how until you commit to something. Once you commit to something, the how starts to appear because your attention is directed by the commitment and tension that you set. And otherwise your attention. is directed by outside sources and then you live in a resentful life. Yeah.

So, yeah, the how stops a lot of people. And I just, for me, I don't know a lot of things, you know, but I know one thing. I'll commit to something. And then the howl starts to appear. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of people are getting ready to get ready. Me too. I'm executing.

I might have to go back later and fix some things. But it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter how we're going to get there. I just know we're going to get there. What is this? You talk about quantum expansion. What is quantum expansion? What is quantum expansion? What does that mean?

It's a big word. I have a podcast agency where we book high level people on top podcasts, right? And I started having this network expand drastically. And I knew the people and they knew me, but they didn't know each other. And I was like, this is unacceptable. We got to figure out a way to centralize this thing so people can start connecting faster without me being in the middle of it all the time necessarily. And so I started a WhatsApp group.

It's got almost 600 members in it now. We network every day. We do meetups. And then the people came to me, some of the members. and they were like, hey, listen, this is great, but we want to go deeper. We want to have events. We want to get together and go deeper

and have access to your network and your expertise and access to proximity. Put something together, we'll invest in you. And I was like, okay. So we put this thing called quantum expansion together, which is a performance group of expanding all areas of your life. So there's masterminds out there that focus mainly on networking and building business, right?

I wanted to have something to where we really expand all areas of our life. So quantum expansion is a group of high-level operators. And we come together weekly, we come together and we talk. We have a WhatsApp group between us too. We chat every day and support each other. But we also do four events per year in amazing locations. And we get together in bond and we do quantum and neuroscience exercises and activities to really expand every area of our life.

I love that. And it's all about personal development. But it's also about connecting like-minded individuals. I'm in the group. I need to be active in the group. I need to be active in the group, but I see the different things that are going on and you have people from all walks of life in a good way on there. I see them all the time talking to each other back and forth, which is phenomenal that you even put that together with a servant leadership. Okay, so let's talk about podcasting. I'm very interested in this. So podcasting, I truly believe, is going to be the wave.

Everybody's going to jump on it. Syndicate a TV. You can see already it's going out. How has podcasting really helped you financially in your life? And what advice would you give to, well, let's start there. And then I'll ask you the second part. Yeah, yeah. Well, first of all, it allowed me to become a better communicator, better speaker. Yeah. Better storyteller.

Right. So early on, I was going on podcast seven to ten a week, five years straight, right? Been on over 1,200. I was going on as the first guest on many shows. I was going on not aligned shows, I would say, like women's shows where they're were talking about menopause and paramenopause, and I didn't even know what that was. And I was just putting the reps in.

That's fun. And then the show started getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and notoriety, omnipresence. See, what I did was I was one of the first people to start clipping podcasts and blasting it all over social media. And it created omnipresence. And people would see me. Explain what clipping is for people that don't understand what the podcast.

And put it up as reels, TikToks, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, whatever. And just blasting it everywhere. and then people would say to me, man, I see you everywhere. I can't get you off my social media feed. And I'm like, oh, it's working. And they were like, oh, it's getting on my nerves. I'm like, good. And I would just keep posting.

And then I would always ask the host when I would go on a show for the raw content. And that's an asset, by the way. So, and I would say, and I'll do it with you too. Like, let's promote your show. I want to promote your show too. So they would give me the content and I'd get my team to clip it up

into little pieces, like little short videos. And then blast it everywhere. So it creates omnipresence. If people do not know who you are, you cannot help people. It's impossible. There you go. So for me, it's created omnipresence.

It created a living organism almost like a brand that's out there. And massive network expansion, right? Like I have access to people that I never could have imagined I'd have access to. So beyond the exposure, most people think podcasts and you're going to get exposure and leverage someone else's audience. To me, that's icing on a cake. I want the host. I want the relationship with the host.

I want to serve the host. I want to connect them. I want to help them go further faster. And then I also want amy presence. And I don't ever trust the host to do everything that they could do to get that podcast out. I want to take responsibility on that. So I'll help promote the show and I'll help get it out there because I want to take responsibility. So yeah, it's been, it's been great, man.

Which is great because these are like very helpful steps, especially with podcasting being a very new. It's not new, but it's going to be guaranteed. mark my words because syndicated TV is going out and you can see it everywhere. Everybody's opening up a podcast. I don't think everybody can be a podcast host or everyone should have a podcast. But I think your steps, give me three steps to performing or getting your podcast rolling. Three easy steps. Right?

Most people don't ever start, right? You got to get a clear. Yes, they talk about it. Yeah, you get a clear idea of what you want to be about. And whether you want to do virtual or in studio, get real clear on the vision. can change. It's not set in stone, but you have to have clarity. And you have to start moving in the direction of that vision to start taking steps, right? You got to figure out like, okay, what kind of equipment do I need? What kind of mic should I get? Camera. Virtual studio, where's the

studio? Am I going to tour the country? I've toured the country with my podcast. I've gone to different cities and run amazing studios. I just get a vision and then I start figuring it out and moving in that direction. So start clarity, clear picture. Number two, start moving in the direction of that and start taking action. And then number three, start reaching out to people that you couldn't, like, beyond what you think is possible to have as a guest on your show. Just start reaching out.

DM people. And those are the first three things I would do. Yeah, and I think you'd be surprised. So many people are more open to helping than ever before. I reached out when I first started my podcast and I was reluctant because I didn't have, I mean, nobody knew who it was. I'm still not even a big podcast.

I'm getting up there. The show was doing really well. But I remember one of the first people that I DMed was Julia Hart, and she's a pretty big deal. And she immediately DM me back, and she was like, I love the name, and I'm happy to help you. So you never know because people, I think people, it's not going to cost them anything. Plus, you promote them. So it's not really a big deal to help somebody else out. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. What about appearing on people's podcasts? What most people don't understand, some of the most well-known people are the most

insecure people. Mm-hmm. And so when they get asked to come on a podcast, they say, yes, before you would even think they would because they're insecure. They're just like, whoa, somebody's reaching out to me. And they actually have more time than you think they do. Yeah. People pretend they're, you know, unsuccessful people pretend they're busy.

Yeah. They've got so much going on. You can make 30 minute time slots. You can definitely do it. Anyone can. Yeah. And they're getting exposure. You're giving them something.

They're not doing something for you necessarily. you're giving them exposure, even though your show might not be big, you might create content for them, right? And if you're following on social media isn't that big and you don't get a lot of views, you'll post it out there, get some views. But also, you give them the content, they can put it out on their social media. Now they have content of them being interviewed, which adds to their perceived credibility and authority. So, yeah, so it's just a misconception a lot of people have.

And, you know, I never, I never shied away from it. Still to this day, like I just reached out to, um, um, um, um, um, um, Dane Cook, who's a comedian, he had a lot of movies out and all that. And I saw a post that he had. And I just sent him an authentic message said, hey, man, you're a good dude, man. You're helping somebody out. I love that post that you had. Love to connect and have you on the show sometime, get you some more exposure.

Yeah. And he's like, sure, man. Some of your number will connect, right? Most people won't even bother to reach out. Easy as that. I know. I literally just DM Shelby Sapp yesterday. She's, you know, she's this new sales girl, the cute little blonde girl,

has a lot of great sales techniques. I literally, within seconds, DM me back, like, okay, girl, here's my, you know, here's my email, set it up. Yeah, of course. I mean, people, and it's free exposure. So I would tell anybody out there, like, go for it. What do you have to lose? You know, set a goal every day. Do you still do that? Yeah, you said you still do that. I do it too. I DM people are all email. I have X amount of people that I want to reach or a bucket list of people that I'd like to get on the podcast and then just kind of take it from there. You're not going to, look, it's a numbers game. It's sales. And if anyone understands anything about sales, you're counting the knows to get to the yeses. So somebody will go on your podcast. Well, and if you have a podcast, you should never, never, never turn down another podcast to go on. You should guess you should guess more than you podcast. Agreed. Your own show. Yeah, even if it's not aligned, even if it's not aligned, I'll go on. I mean, obviously, if it's like something like way left that I don't know anything about, but for the most part, I don't think I've ever turned down a podcast. It doesn't matter how big the following was I get on just for exposure to get into their audience. Yeah, because when you do that,

more people will answer you. But not only that, it gets your podcast exposure. Yeah. No, it's so true. And then you'll start moving up the ranks with the shows that you can get on. Or if you get access to that one agency, for example, most people don't even know we exist. And that's on me every single day. I pretend nobody's ever heard of us.

Yeah. And when they, people hear about, oh, wait a minute, there's a shortcut. I can move further faster by having access to bigger shows. Somebody can just get me booked on it. I just have to show up and do the interview. Like that that's the thing that starts to get this flywheel momentum going and you get velocity. Then your show starts to pick up too. Absolutely.

I love it. So where are you going with your shows? Well, I use my show mainly for other podcasts hosts that I want to build a relationship with like yourself. I want to bring people into my network. I want them to experience my environment. So I have on my show top podcast hosts or people that have good podcasts or whatever. And then also my clients at that one agency, I like to get them exposure. So I bring them all my show.

And then I'll mix in some bigger names just to get more exposure. Credibility. So I just continue to do that. Like that's my focus is really just to continue what we're doing with that. I love that. And you just keep going. All right, I'm going to switch gears and have a little fun for you. So you're going to tell me true or false.

Okay. No motivational speaker answers. You got to give me like real deal. All right. Most entrepreneurs quick too early. They were one decision away from breaking through, true or false. Oh, 100%. There's a chapter in there of the thinking grow rich about three feet from gold.

Three feet from gold. And Greg Reed wrote a book called Three Feet from Gold based on that as well. 100%. That's why I say keep going, dude, every morning. Keep going, dude. Just keep going. And one more thing. You will go as far as you are committed.

So if you're not going and you're quitting or you're not going to just check your commitment level. Yes, absolutely. All right. Next question. The podcast space is oversaturated. New shows have almost no chance. of ever making it. False.

A hundred percent. I agree with you. Mindset is more important than strategy and building a business. Yeah, I would say 100% it's a foundation. I would agree. Because that other stuff comes after it. Because if you have a strategy in front of you, but you aren't committed, as I just mentioned, you won't do what it takes.

Yeah. Mindset is 80% of everything you do. I agree with that 100%. Social media following is a vanity metric. It doesn't actually translate to revenue. It doesn't without certain things you can do with it, right? Like for me, when I DM people, that matters. When I DM people now, even early on, it didn't, you know, people would still answer me,

but now they answer all the time because the first thing they do is checking your profile and they see how many followers you have. And in like three seconds, they make a decision to answer you. Yeah, absolutely. The entrepreneurship content world is more about selling dreams than teaching real skills. True. Yeah. Why do you say that?

Well, most of the people that are doing it are good marketers or just have nowadays going on AI and created some content clips. And they post it out there. And it's all about perception. Yeah. And most of them haven't done it. Yeah. Can we talk about that for a second? I know we talked about it.

When I say done it, they haven't built a business. Yeah. How do you feel about that? Because there's a lot of people in the space right now that are on stages. They are speaking around the world about, you know, they're making, they're at a $60 million a year. and you read about what they've really done and they've done nothing. I don't really concern myself too much with it.

I don't get distracted by that. I just stay on my mission, focus on what I'm going to do. Yeah. No, that's a fair statement. I just think as a thought leader, it does kind of oversaturate the market and it gives people that are real thought leader

is a bad name that everybody's trying to be out there. How do you overcome that? Well, you just be authentic. Yeah. Right? You go out and you be authentic and you push your stuff out there and then wake up every morning

pretend of nobody's ever heard of you because you've got to overwhelm that. And so to me, I just, I just push my stuff out authentically, getting out there and then building deep relationships with people, you know, and then continues to focus on growing my business. You know, if you take your focus off growing your own business, then that just feeds into that even more. Yeah. And if somebody, because I know you have brand deals. I'm sure you do because your podcast.

So how would somebody that would want a brand deal? What would you say would be the first strategic method or step they should? they should do. Well, you've got to start the podcast in the first place, right? And you've got to start getting some decent guests on, get consistency, and then, you know, making sure you're repurposing the content and getting it out there so that you get exposure. Again, you're not going to get brand deals or sponsors if nobody knows who you are. So you have to do that.

You have to get known. You've got to be in proximity with other high-level people, high-known people. Proximity is what matters. And then when people start to see that, or if you go to reach out to a brand, Right. Most people sit back and wait for one. Right. They sit back and wait.

And if that might happen, you might get lucky. But you got to be proactive and you got to reach out to brands that align with you or your show and have a good package for them to look at that shows that you have some momentum that you're in proximity to these other people that could get them exposure as well. I love it. I love it. I think that's the most honest. You're right. People are waiting for like them to fall out of the sky. But you got to be a little bit forward.

It's your business. And I think that's where people don't understand that this is a business like anything else. And you got to work your business. Deals are not going to come to you. You have to be a little bit more proactive as a business owner, especially if you're trying to monetize. Yeah, you need to think about like if I had money to give somebody to sponsor their show, who would I be looking for? Absolutely. And build that.

Have you ever when doing, when bringing guests on, have you ever not aired? And you don't have to say the guess. Have you ever not aired something that might, like you thought it was going to be one way. It didn't align and you didn't air. it um i think maybe one or two over the years it just didn't align yeah the person yeah uh yeah i don't want to speak anymore yeah no no no i didn't you don't have to put the person out what is something that for podcasting what is something that you wish that you knew i wish i had somebody like me in my corner early on you know i was figuring it out on my own and you don't have to do that nowadays

you know when people know me they they can get access to people systems process to people systems expertise that they normally wouldn't have and they can speed up the process. So I wish I just knew, I wish I had somebody like me in my corner. Yeah, I agree. How important is mentorship, though? Oh, it's everything, man. I mean, it speeds up the process. Like you get around people that have done it.

You get to see what they did, how they did it. And you can start emulating them and thinking like them, speaking like them, doing the things they do and hanging around the people they hang around. Yeah. And that's what those four things. will cause and create a universe that you live in. Yeah. Absolutely.

I mean, people don't understand. It's just that easy. You know, I do sales also. So what I tell my salespeople, if they want to do well, get around the people that are doing well. Don't go around the parking lot, powwow to the people that are in the, you know, they're in the parking lot. Oh, the lead suck.

This person. You go around. If you want to be a millionaire, what do you do? You sit next to the millionaire. This is, it's that easy to do. You emulate what they're doing, how they're speaking, what they're dressing like. And when you create that environment. for yourself, right? You're almost manifesting it to where you become successful. So, I mean,

your advice is so sound. And obviously, you've done this for quite a long time and your podcast continues to grow. So you should be so proud of yourself. But how many times did you fail? You know, we talk about our trophy room and all of our successes, but how many times did you fail before you succeeded in that? I don't count because it's not even worth the number to count, right? You just go and you adjust. Like, it's not, to me, it's like, if something doesn't work out the way you expected it to. It's I just underestimated or I, I predicted wrong.

I had a prediction error as my partner. Jerry always says prediction error. You just predicted wrong. So you just learn from it and keep going. And the only way you fail is if you quit, you know, you don't keep going. Until I'm plucked from this planet, I'm going to figure out how far I can take this thing.

I love that. Yeah, but I don't really count. You know, one reason I don't count, a buddy of mine who's a billionaire, told me one time he had 29 failed startups before you finally hit one that you struck and became a billionaire. Yeah. So why count?

Just keep going. And, you know what I mean? If it's meant to be, it's meant to be. I love that. Are you, but let's, I mean, on the statistics side of things, are you looking at the KPI's? Like, are you looking at when people drop off time? Are you looking at, you know, how many viewers?

Is that, are those metrics that you're following as well? With the podcast, you're saying, no. I don't, I don't, so for me, the podcast isn't for growing it to this big giant podcast. It'll grow on its own, but I don't concern myself with that because this isn't everything that I do. This isn't like the all,

and all be all. I use it for relationships, but it grows, you know, organically it grows, and I'm good with that. But no, I don't look at the KPIs for that because it's not an important thing.

I measure things that are important. So what's the most important for me? Well, my calendar's got to be filled with new people. Like, I want to talk to new people every day. I have five to eight, 15 minutes a day. I've got to have five to 10 podcasts a week. And then I got to convert some of those people into our network and have them part of our ecosystem.

And then some of them have to come in and do podcasting with us. So I look at those numbers. And then I look at how many of those people I talked to became clients. How many of those clients came in and how many renewed with us? Like all the business metrics, we look at those. Yeah. Anything that's important you should measure because if you're not, you're not keeping score. And when you're playing a game, which this is all a game, everything's a game.

The life is a game. Business is a game. You cannot have a game without keeping score. Absolutely. Yeah. No, I love it. So you basically, and I don't know that I'm going to publish this part, but you use the podcast as a funnel. You use that as funnel for relationship building and then it trickles into everything else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is so smart. Absolutely. 100%. Yeah. I mean, that's, but it's for relationships. Like, it's got to be for relationships. It can't be to sell something. It's got to be, I want to build relationships. I want to bring people in. Matter of fact, when I do it, it's a funnel for me to serve people. Because, because I don't get much out of the network compared to the people that are in the network of what they get. Makes sense. No, I mean, your model, and I hope anyone that's listening is listening to your model.

So when you have anything, why the importance of an ecosystem has to stand at the forefront as well as developing relationships, it doesn't just happen overnight. You know, like anything else, you have to build a strong foundation in order for everything else to work itself out. So, I mean, everything you've said today is so valuable. What is something that you've never really publicly spoken about, but you think is important that's helped you grow your business? I don't know if I've ever publicly spoken about this,

but there's definitely times when I was a younger kid growing up in the brokenness that I grew up in that and, you know, not having a relationship with my dad and things like that, like, I got to be valuable. I got to be valuable. I got to serve. I got to be, you know, people need me in their life. And I don't know if that's healthy or not, but I use that in my business. Like I got to be valuable to people.

I got to be so valuable. You know, I've never been fired from a job. Oh, congratulations. I don't think I've ever said that publicly, but I've never been fired from a job because I want to make myself so valuable that they, I'm indispensable. I love that. I hope that that that's a big word indispensable. You want to be valuable.

And you do think, and I love what you said. A lot of people have the victim mentality, but what the brokenness. And I don't know if you want to touch on that or not, but the broken home, the brokenness. And you said that. You use it in your front as opposed to your trunk. But you've used that to create such an empire of positivity that allows everybody around you to thrive, which is absolutely important. So it doesn't matter where you come from or what you do. Everybody has the opportunity to be great and valued.

So I love that. 100%. 100%. I mean, you know, I remember my dad when I was 10 or 11 years old. I was moving out of his house and my stepmom's house. And he got court papers delivered to him because I told my mom I wanted to move back with her. And he crumpled up a $100 bill and threw it at me and said, here, you're going to need this when you're living on the streets with your mother one day.

Wow. And I was like, am I? That's a question when I was younger. I always asked that question too. Like when I would bounce from school to school and have people, you know, picking on you and this and that. They'd say things about you. Am I? I?

I would ask myself that question. Am I? Yeah. Wow. You know? And so I just use that as I'll never need that money. And today, do you have a relationship with your dad today? No.

No, you don't. But I'm sure I'm sure that your kids are exorbitantly proud of you. I'm so sure of it. I hope so. I'm sure they are. They may not admit it. When you're living with your kids, it's like, you know, you're just, oh, he's just getting on me, this and that.

But one day they'll understand. They will. And what do your kids think about podcasting? They think it's cool or they're like, eh? They think it's cool when I have somebody on the show that they know from YouTube or something like that. You know? Yeah.

Or if I'm a DM in somebody that they know, like, they'll be like, oh, that's so cool. Can you, can you tell them this, you know, this question? And other than that, they could care less. Yeah, mine too. And then my daughter will, she'll criticize me like, that was so cringe that you even ask that. Why would you ask that? And then her friends will come in the house and start. They'll be like, oh, Mar, you did so great today.

She was like, she'll be like, ew, no, she didn't. She was weird. It's funny, though. But I appreciate you coming on here. And if, you know, today's guest is more than a guest. He's a networker, entrepreneur. he's a brand in himself. You have given so many amazing nuggets today.

So my challenge for everybody that's out there is implement one of them, especially if you're trying to start your own podcast. I mean, Mike laid out the secrets. He opened up his book and gave you some real authentic advice on what to do. So take advantage of it. This guy is successful. 2.2 million followers. And what is next for you?

Another podcast? Where are you going? Next for me is to continue. continue to build this network out. I want to get to a thousand members on the WhatsApp. We're almost 600 now. It's only been a year since we started that. And I want to throw some of the most amazing events that people have life changing experiences in at quantum expansion. So I'm focused on. That's really the two things I'm focused on right now. And if people want to find you, where can they find you? Instagram is the best place. Mikey C-R-O-C. Mickey C-R-O-C.

Mikey C. Rock. And if anybody out there wants to get and, you know, move faster, go further faster and get a shortcut and they want to get exposure on top podcasts, just DM me and or you can go to that one agency, that, the number one agency.com. There you go. I mean, you had it from the man, the myth, the legend, ultimate podcaster, just creating networks and being amazing. Thank you, Mike, for coming on today. I appreciate it. I know you're super busy. Thank you so much. It was a blast. Appreciate you. Great job. Thank you.