BILFPOD - Your Story Isn’t Over: Life Shifts with Matt Gilhooly

Episode Date: July 10, 2025

What happens when everything changes… and you still have to move forward?In this powerful episode, Mara sits down with Matt Gilhooly, host of The Life Shift Podcast, for a raw conversation about grief, identity, and the moments that shape us. From personal tragedy to building a platform that helps others heal through storytelling, Matt shares what it really means to take ownership of your narrative and begin again—with intention.✨ Whether you're in the middle of a pivot or reflecting on the path that got you here, this episode is your reminder: your story isn’t over—it’s just shifting.🎧 In this episode:The grief that cracked him open—and why he finally spoke about itWhat makes a moment “life-shifting” (and how to know you’re in one)The mission behind The Life Shift PodcastWhy sharing your story can unlock someone else’s healing“When we tell the truth about who we are, we create space for someone else to do the same.”Get Connected:Follow Matt: @themattgilhooly @thelifeshiftpodcastFollow Mara: @maradorneFollow BILFPod: @bilfpodListen & Subscribe: BILFPod on Spotify + AppleWant to be a guest? → maradorne.com/bilf 

From what I've learned and the people that I talk to, I think find a way to share your story, whether that's to a friend, whether that's writing on a piece of paper. When that story's in your head, it's much scarier. It's much harder to deal with. But once you put it out on paper, once you tell somebody, it's like, okay, it's out there. Now I can do what I need to do with it, whether that's a bigger journey of some kind of therapy or something like that. So I would say to anyone that's feeling that way is to find someone or something like an outlet in which you can express your feelings like truthfully and not in a performative way. Hi everyone and welcome back to the BILF pod where authenticity trumps authority.

I am your host, Maradorn. And for those of you tuning in for the first time, you might be wondering what BILF stands for. and Bill stands for Boss I like to follow. I am very, very touched and excited today to have our guest. His name is Matt Gilhuli. Matt is a Bilt in his own right. Matt is actually the founder and host of a podcast, The Life Shift. And he's an author of a marketing communication.

Is that right? Marketing Communications writer? Is that it? Your author also? No, I just write for my job. Oh, you write. Okay, see? Every day.

You write every day? Well, for mortgage technology, so it's really exciting. That's pretty cool. That's awesome. I love that. That's really cool. Well, today I'm really excited, and I'll tell you why I'm super excited that you're on. You and I have a similarity, and we have something in common that for you, I mean, just talking

you for literally five minutes, you brought it out of me, and I told you my story. And like you, I lost a parent when I was really young. I was six years old. I was telling you I was on vacation. And for those you that don't know, this is actually one of the very few times I've ever spoken about this publicly. And what I've learned is that through speaking about the death of my father publicly, it is really helping me to understand a lot more about who I am internally. But it also brings to light maybe some problems that I've been dealing. I don't know, problem issues, we'll say, some issues.

Life. Life. Yeah, life happens. But I'm also learning that it's nothing to be embarrassed about. or it's nothing that I should be ashamed about, but it is something that is a part of me. And it's something that has changed my life. And I don't think that I even realized how much it would change my life as a little girl.

I was six years old on vacation with my family, and we had like really rarely ever gone on vacation. We drove from Sunrise, Florida to Atlanta. That's a fun drive. Right? And my mom's Camero. How I remember? I don't remember.

And super excited. my mom and dad, like I said, I don't remember ever going on vacation. So here we are. We're going on vacation. And we go to this house. I remember it was like yesterday. It was in this like woodsy area in Atlanta. We're having, we're getting ready for Thanksgiving. I mean, just everything that you can possibly imagine of fun and glorious times. And it was just an amazing night. And I really remember going to sleep like super excited about the next day because it was going to be Thanksgiving. living. But I was actually woken up in the middle of my sleep. And I was woken up by a gentleman I had never seen before. And it was a rabbi, a rabbi who is a religious figure to tell me that my father

had passed away. Now, I can only imagine because I think, you know, part of us kind of tunes out something that, right? So it's kind of a blur of what happened. But I do remember looking at this man like Charlie Brown, the words were like coming out, but they just weren't making sense. And little did I know that my entire life would completely change. For sure. That was it. And what I love about what you're doing is you create a space for people like myself. You know, I always, and I was taught from there on to put on, you know, your face because that's

just how I was raised. And I don't think my mom even realized that this is who, who she wanted me. I think she, I think indirectly, she didn't really want to deal with it. So it was just kind of one of those things like it happened. It's really sad that it happened, but I was never able to use my dad as a crutch growing up. And indirectly, it did propel me forward for sure. Like there was a lot of good things that came from it. Which is always hard to say.

Yeah. I know that sounds so terrible. My dad died and it's great for me. No, I mean, it sounds terrible. But you have to laugh. I mean, you have to have some humor, right? And I always feel like you got to laugh a little bit. but there were a lot of good things that came from it. It showed me how life, when life happens,

you kind of have to move on and it's okay to move on. It showed me that you can take a sad moment and use it as positive energy to propel forward. It showed me that sometimes when unexpected things happen, that you have to kind of turn it around and shift it and be okay because you never know what's going to happen. And it also showed me to really love and hold near and dear. I think that's why, you know what, sitting here, I think that's why I'm a relationship hoarder. I think I just figured it out why. I've had this like really terrible problem my whole life of being a relationship. But now I know why. I think I just saw my own problem. We haven't even said two words and you're helping me solve problems. That's what I'm here for.

But I'm really just interested in knowing a little bit about your story. So if you can share with us a little bit about your story and why you even created this safe space. Sure. I mean, I think first though, I want to ask, did you, at six, did you, Did you understand what all that meant for you? Or did you just kind of fall in line with what your family wanted for you? And I'm asking that because of my own experience. Yeah, I knew that I was different. I knew that.

And I think my mom spent so many years trying to normalize my difference that I don't think that it ever made a real difference in my life because she overcompensated for it. I knew that, you know, I didn't have a dad to take me to the daddy-daughter dance. I knew that, you know, everybody would come. come and parent and meet the teacher day and I would be there with my mom. I think indirectly it probably hurt, but outwardly, I never really, I never showed it because my mom spent so much time trying to overcompensate. Yeah. Well, I mean, like you said,

we have a similar experience. Yeah. I was, my parents got divorced when I was like six. So I was kind of living with my mom and my dad moved to Georgia. I lived in Massachusetts. And so we were far apart. And then I was visiting my father one summer for probably like a month or two. Just, I don't know what you do at eight. You just do whatever. And I was at daycare, whatever you, after school care, whatever that is for summer camp. And my dad's boss picked me up. And I was like, why is this woman picking me up? Brought me to his office, which I don't go to his office. And I remember walking into my, through my dad's office, past everyone, everyone's heads are down. It's very quiet. Not really sure what's happening here. I'm also eight. So it's kind of like,

why am I here anyway? And my dad sat me down and he told me that my mom had died in a motorcycle accident at that moment. And I remember like you said, it's kind of like Charlie Brown's teacher, like that want want, like what does this even mean? And the reason I asked you that question, I was like, I don't even think I knew what, like I understood what death was. Yeah, but you couldn't like place it to like how. The permanence of it. Like just didn't seem really. You're saying that I'm not going to see this woman that was, like, led my life for so long, or for the years that I could remember. Right.

And it also meant, like, now what? Can I never go home again? Like, do I have to make a new home? Do I have to move down here and miss all my friends? It was before school had started, but in Georgia, school had just started. So it was like, I was the student starting late. So everything was so different for me. And what happened in my world, this was like late 80s, early 90s, is that,

that the adults in my life, they didn't want to talk about it. And they, and what I got from them is they wanted to make sure that I was happy. Yeah, that's the same thing. I was a happy kid. Yeah. But I took that as, I need to prove to them that I'm happy. Right. Not I need to get happy, but I just need to show them that I'm happy and then I'm perfect. Because if I'm not perfect, they'll see that I'm not happy and then they'll also leave. So my whole life from, from eight till probably like 30 was trying to prove that I was just a great student. I was going to get a promotion. I was going to buy the nicest house.

I was going to do all the things that society told me would make me successful. And meanwhile, it was just broken inside. Were you ever scared that your dad was going to leave too? Yeah. That was a big fear. Even to this day, this is a huge fear of mine. Like, I'm very close with my mom. I'm super, super, super, super close with her.

She has everything. but I lived with that fear as a child because it is, I mean, it's traumatic. We went through a traumatic, especially, I think it's a lot different to when you're older and you lose a parent versus when you're younger, neither worse, but it's just a completely different experience because for us, like you're right at six and eight, how are you even, I couldn't even fathom, I didn't even know anyone that died. Right. And if they did, they were probably like an old grandparent and you're like, that's just next.

Right. That's what you do when you get that old. I can totally relate and I spent the duration of my life trying to be perfect because I was afraid. Same thing that if I was not perfect and if I, and I'm the only child, do you have brothers and sisters? You're an only child. How weird is this? Can we just tell the audience that we grew up in the same, like same street. We went to the same elementary school.

We're almost the same age. And your dad was living in Georgia. I went to Georgia. This does not happen. We were like meant to meet. Yeah, exactly. No, I mean, I think. I think you're right. It's very weird, first of all, that we have all those similarities.

I was listening to you on other podcasts. I was like, I wonder where in Fort Lauderdale, because I also say Fort Lauderdale. It's really plantation. Yeah, because if you say plantation, everyone's like, where? Say Fort Lauderdale's easier. Yeah, I think the hardest part for me, looking back, I don't think I realized this at the time, but my dad was mid-30s. I don't think he had lost anyone in that way. Yeah. So he didn't know how to grieve. He wasn't a full-time parent.

at the time. So we also now had to take on this role of like being a mom and a dad to a kid whose mom just died. So like he didn't know what was going on as well. And I talked to him now. He was actually just in town last night. And I was like, you know, we did the best we knew how. Yeah, there's no set of directions when you're raising kids. But I wish we had done it differently. You know, like I feel like there was, there was, it was really hard. Nobody was talking about it. And nobody went to therapy. Nobody went to therapy. Can you imagine selling the people and, because I, my mom sent me to therapy. I probably went too. I went in the school counselor.

She tried to send me up for the Central Park school counselor, but that's embarrassing because you're getting pulled out of school to go to the counselor. And right at that time, only the bad kids went. So they were always like, why is she going to therapy once a week? So how do you even explain this as a child? Well, and you're also not used to being vulnerable. Right. Like you are, well, I was dealing with bullies and things like that at the time.

So now I have to go over here and talk to this woman about my feelings. when I'm just trying to survive over here. So it was a lot of years of that. It was probably two decades, which brought me to, like during the pandemic, I got a second master's degree at UF and I was just because I was bored and of perfectionism, you know, 4.0, it's fine.

Still stuck there. But I took a podcast in class and I just had to start something. And initially I was like, can I have a podcast just about grief because I screwed it up for 20 years and now I know how to do it? and I was like, that's kind of really depressing.

So I'm probably not going to do that. So I decided to talk to people about the very specific pivotal moments in their lives in which their life changed. So that life shift moment. And that's been the challenge to a lot of guests is because I think we think, okay, this transitionary period was my life shift. Yeah. It was.

But can you pin it down? Like for me, it was always my mom died. But it was really when my dad sat me down and had to tell me. Because she had already been dead for three hours and I hadn't, like, I didn't know. So it's really been an interesting journey to hear people dissect their lives in a way that maybe they haven't been challenged to do so before. Because yours probably wasn't when your father died. It was.

I know what exactly mine was. I can pin it because I wrote, I actually wrote a book. And when I wrote a book, which it wasn't about, it was just about, you know, my story in general. But when I wrote the book, it was super therapeutic. And the pivotal moment in my life was when I saw my mom, I'll never forget this because we had to fly back. We drove to Atlanta.

We had to fly back. And we, my mom, I remember, like, in true, like, I call her the Rand. And she is, like, exactly what she's like, she is it. She, I love her. So I remember her, like, getting dressed. She got me dressed. She put on her big sunglasses, held my little hand through the airport. And that's when I realized, like, you have to get up and put your face together,

and you've got to get it together and let's roll and let's go. And that's, that was kind of like the motto of our life, like, should have. happens. It's really sad, but we have to move forward. And that was really, and that's kind of how, you know, I think of life a lot. Yeah. And for my whole life, I've been like that. The shit happens, but it doesn't matter what happens. You don't use it as a crutch, but you use it as a building block and a tool to either excel in life or you can, or not. It's a choice. You know, it's a personal choice. I could have spent my life saying, whoa, was me. I could have. And I think everybody would have excused it. I did. Yeah, which is fine. Right. But,

Luckily, and I always say thank God because of my mom indirectly and how fierce and how bold and brave she was. I mean, same thing. My mom was 42. All of a sudden, she has this little six-year-old daughter because my dad was raising me. My mom worked all the time. And my dad, yeah. So my dad raised me and all of a sudden my mom, she couldn't even do my hair. So I had to learn how to French braid my little hair at six years old.

So it was just, but that was the pivotal moment in my life, which really, really made me, I think later on, really want, number one, I wanted to make sure because my mom dedicated her life to making sure that I had everything. I knew that I wanted my mom to have everything. So I've spent my entire life building a legacy. Of course, for my children, they're my why, but my mom is a huge why for me. Yeah, she was an example of like just moving through. I'm sure part of that experience, though, made you the badass that you are today too. through her. Just in business, just in general of like, I have to make this happen.

Yeah. Because I need to protect myself. I need to protect the people around me. I need to hoard the relationships or whatever those are. I think there's a lot of things that come from such a tragedy as a kid. But it's only if we're lucky enough to either assume it in a way that is healthy or eventually get to the point where you can have that. Because like I said, up until like mid-30s, I was still.

using the fact that she had died as like this crutch. Like if something bad happened, it was like, oh, because my mom's dead. Or if something good in my life, it was like, oh, because people feel bad for me, because my mom's dead. And there was a lot of that playing that game until I finally was ready for a therapy session where I chose to go. And I chose to find someone to like help me through the muck. And this woman totally on paper, you'd be like, Matt and this woman make no sense together as a therapist. And she was like, you realize every, every decision that you've made since you were eight years old, you've done as an eight year old with that scared mentality that someone was going to leave you.

Wow. And I was like, everything. So what happened? You just changed your whole mentality? Honestly, it probably felt like it was in the moment that everything changed. I'm sure it was like a year period of me kind of unraveling all the decisions that I had made, all the easy routes that I had made. Yeah.

Because I took all the easy paths because I was a, afraid if I wasn't perfect. Like I chose the path that I knew I was going to be really good at. Yeah. Because if I wasn't, I was going to fail. And then what if my father left? Because I did terribly, you know, like he wasn't happy. He was never going to do that. But in my mind, I was so afraid as that eight-year-old. So I finally kind of made it through that in which I was able to talk in a healthy way about my mom and about losing my mom and about how broken I was for so long, which I think is really hard as a male, you know, like. For sure. Sure, that is, yeah.

Like, tell people that, like, I'm sad and that's okay. Because growing up, I was only allowed to be happy or angry. Yeah. Right? Like, those were the only two things that men are allowed to be back then. My house all too. Nobody cried. Right.

Don't cry. And now I'm like, I'm not having a good day. I'm sad. You know, I lost my dog over the summer, and it was, like, the most devastating thing. And I just tell everyone about it because I'm a human. And it's okay. Exactly. But it wasn't.

It felt like it wasn't a way. Okay. I think at that time it wasn't okay. It should have been. It should, yeah, but if you, like, if you go back to school, and I could say this, because, like, we went to the same elementary school, same group of people that were, like, we went to, like, we went to, but it was affluent. I mean, it was a nice elementary school we went to. Just think about, like, the teachers.

It was a very close-knit community, and everybody knew everybody. There was really six degrees of separation. Everyone lived within, like, Jacaranda Lakes, Quatrain, Bridgewater, you know, that whole, like, area. and if you couldn't be that kid you could not be that kid that was you just couldn't be that kid no you get bullied for sure yeah yeah time period of course but i'm so grateful for it in this weird way because now i can look back you have to get bullied a little you have to get bullied a little little i'm not grateful for that but yeah no that i mean that was quite a journey itself but it all of that all of that crap that i went through all the missteps and the things that i look back

and I'm like, cringe, like, totally wrong decision. Like, help me now. Help me hold space for people's conversations. I love that. Never would I have thought that, you know, someone, I just talked to someone in Australia, and they were telling me their story. And they were like.

So you did people internationally that come. Oh, yeah. Yeah. How do you do that? Well, I've been really fortunate. And I guess the nice thing is that. Well, I saw your podcast that's had, what, like 143,000 views? It's a lot.

I've had a lot of people watching. watching and listening. Don't be modest. I saw, wait, let me read what it says here. Just achieve recognition as a global top 2% performing podcast. That's 1.5 now. Oh, okay. 1.5.

Through engaging storytelling and quality editing. I mean, that's pretty impressive. Thank you. I'll accept that. I'm impressed. Here's the thing. The thing is, I think there are so many people that don't have people in their life around them that will listen. And there's something so valuable about everybody's

story because your story, I can relate to things in your story. You can probably relate to something that I've said in my story. And if you're that person that has that story inside and nobody's listening, it's really hard. So I've been really fortunate that since maybe six months into my journey, I haven't had to look for a guest for my show. They just come to me, which is great. You know, some are not great and I have to like say no because they just want to pitch their book or whatever it may be and there are plenty of podcasts for that but the ones that need to find the space to open up they will and I've had people show up and go oh I was going to tell you about the time I had cancer or whatever it was right but I really want to tell you about something I've never told anyone before

and it's those moments where I fall back I'm like who am I why are you telling me that story and I think it's because I've told mine. I've shared mine. I've shared my vulnerabilities with the world and told them when life sucks. It's so true. Yeah. So it's just been a, it's been a beautiful journey and I'm just really lucky to just create the space. But look, I mean, that's amazing. Just think of, think about how many people our age, especially, because, you know, mental illness, anxiety, and I've talked about this because I do suffer from anxiety pretty bad. But this, these were things that were never spoken about. I mean, I battled with anxiety probably 20 years before I actually came out and said, you know, I have anxiety. I have it. And you create this space for people

to really just open up and be themselves when we're stuck in a world, you know, where you can have, of course, and you can hide behind AI and you can hide behind, you know, the screen. You can, but you give people that opportunity to be authentic. and I ask them really awkward questions. I love that. Oh, I love that. I love awkward, uncomfortable questions. I think it's important.

I think, the way I think about these conversations is like, these are the questions that I ask are the ones that I wish I would overhear other people asking instead of like talking about their accolades or like what the performative next question is. But like, you know, just something really inappropriate maybe at the time. I love, I love you already. I love inappropriate questions and awkward questions. Yeah, because you never know what people are. going to connect with. And a prime example of this was I was having a conversation about this woman

who had lost her father at maybe five, and then her mom was, she was estranged from her mom as well. And it was this long journey or whatever. And we were talking through and we somehow, we got on this conversation about like in high school where she was like, yeah, there were times where she would imagine that her father was in witness protection at the time, just like it's a part of her grief journey. I was like, me too. And then we went down this whole tantal. And then we went down this whole tangent of like how our parents were both in witness protection. That's crazy. I used to think that my dad, I promise you that he was going to come back through the door. Like he was just, it was like he fooled everybody. He wasn't really dead and he just really lied to everyone and he was going to appear.

You never tell someone that in person. Never. I never even said it. I can't believe you got that out of me. Exactly. Because, but those are the things. It's like it makes us feel normal. It makes us feel that like, oh, no, we're not weird for thinking that. That is our brain protecting us in whatever way we needed to be protected at the time. But what was so beautiful about that moment, it was like, it was the first time that my show validated my experience. And I think so many people could be listening

to someone else's story. I listened to a couple of your episodes on like other people's podcasts. And just hearing those pieces, you never know what people are going to connect with. Yeah. And it's like that weird moment. You'd think I connect with the fact

that her father had died, but it was really the witsick that our parents were not in, but that we thought they were. Yeah. I mean, I love that. And it's funny because, you know, when you were talking to Allison who wanted you to come on, you know, I think one thing that she pointed out to me, although we have so many parallels,

is how it relates to BILF and just business in general, is that I think your story, I mean, because I know aside from this, you have your everyday job that you, that you're an author and you write for your job. But I feel like when we are open and we are vulnerable, number one, it makes us. us better leaders, right? Because people can sniff on authentic people. They can smell it a mile away, but it makes you human and relatable. And when you are human and relatable and open, the results in the end from people, you can drive people just from being human. You build trust. Yeah. I think if people can see that you're a flawed human, I think it makes you more valuable to them in their lives.

Because then again, they can relate to you. And if they can relate to you, they're going to want to do things with you, for you, around you, you know, they're going to want to perform as a team rather than you have this scary performative boss that's just dictating orders. And everyone is like, what are they covering up in their history? Like, what is their trauma? It looks fake. I always say, like, I even wrote a book that was called Perfect Imperfections, but I do believe that your imperfections make you perfect. Yeah, for sure. I wrote a poem of that too when I was in like middle school. Who are you? Maybe we like are meant, we're definitely meant to me. It's so, like, I met you before.

It's so crazy how similar our lives have been. But so I, okay, so let's talk about our lives and like how, how, like, navigating through the world of, like, unknown. Because it was weird. It definitely was, I would say, a little weird for me from time to time, you know, when you are experiencing things with your friends and they are going to that daddy daughter or even my wedding. I was married twice, whatever.

But, you know, I didn't have the daddy daughter dance. I never had that. I never had. And I always felt like I was missing out on something. And I think now more so than ever, I feel like I missed out on so much of my life without having a father. Did you gravitate two other father figures in your life? No. No.

I would think, like, luckily, no. I did on the opposite. Like every friend that I had, I was like buddy, buddy with their moms because it was like something that was missing in my life. And my dad has remarried. different with a mom than a dad. I think so. I think it really is. Maybe a little creepy on the other way. No, yeah, but I always say, I know this is terrible, but I always say I think for a child, it's easier to lose, I don't know if it's easier, that's even the right word, but to lose a father, I think is, I don't know if you would use easier, maybe more manageable. I don't even know what

word you would use. I don't even know. I know what you're saying, but you know what I, like, because the mom holds like, that's the nurture. And I know how I am with my kids, like, I'm the nurture. I'm the one that has it all together. I'm the one that cooks. I'm the one that knows all the nitty, gritty little things. And dads, unless, you know, you have a very, and dad, I'm not saying that dads can't, I'm not saying that at all. But the mom is the nurturer, so it's hard. I can only imagine how it felt for you. Are you close with your dad? I am now, yeah. I think when I was kind of navigating the world of fearing, losing him from not being perfect. Yeah. I think that was a different, but also I was a teenager, like what teenager gets along with their parents, not too many of us.

Yeah, no. But now that I'm in my 40s, my father and I have a really good relationship. And it's what's been really interesting, I flipped the script early on in my podcast journey and I had a friend interview me about my story. And I let my dad listen to it. And while I didn't let him, it was in the world. And we had a beautiful conversation after that because think about it. When you talk to your mom about your life, there's always this interjection probably where

you're going back and forth. No, that's not how it happened. always you're crazy that never happened exactly but this was an opportunity for him to hear me uninterrupted and how i saw in your perception and he was like you know what i didn't realize that's the way you were feeling at that particular time because here's how i was feeling yeah and it's podcasting is such a beautiful space in that way so like i super encourage you to like do that for your own story and have your mom lesson to this my mom heard me speak she did like this year she heard me speak for the first time and she read the book

she read it and I think some of it was a little eye-opening for her I think some of it she nothing obviously nothing was not nice it was my perception of my own reality of what I was going through and why I am the way that I am

you know but yeah I think that her hearing it definitely she would never come out and say to me like I'm so angry with you, but I think she was taken back. I definitely do. Yeah, I do. I think she was taken back by the way that I saw some things. Not good. I just think taken back. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a good journey. I think that's a reflection is a beautiful thing if we're allowed

to do it for ourselves or if other people can do it. But I don't know, I have a good relationship with my dad, I think also in part because of that. Because now we can talk about it and he can go, you know, I really screwed up. If I had, if I had this to do again, here's maybe how I would do it. I'm like, you can't. Like, that's, we did what we knew how to do and we didn't do a very good job, but we're here. Yeah. I mean, you are here. So through your podcast, so I'm, I'm interested, so through your podcast, like, where are you trying to go with it? Are you trying to, like, where are, yeah, just tell me where you're trying to go with it? I don't know. I don't know. I'm kind of going on the journey. I never thought I'd, I mean, I have 250-something-something episodes out. I've interviewed

to 172 people now. So, I mean, it's like, I'm kind of just going with it. I think it will eventually lead to maybe a book of some sort. I don't know. Like short stories? I don't know. I mean, you're a writer. Why don't you do?

That would be amazing. It's this weird space of, of, I'm holding these personal stories that aren't mine. But at the same time, so many of these personal stories are mine because of how much I relate to a lot of those pieces. So I think it's really, it could lead to something. I don't know where it's going to go. And I've been on this journey, this creative journey, which is kind of aligned with my grief journey. And I just kind of go where, like I'll do digital art every once in a while.

I'll put out coloring books on Amazon just because I'm trying to find my way through this. Talk about that. I know that you do, you've had coloring books come out. So what are these like, are these for children that are grieving? Like, or is it just like you don't, what is it? I was bored. You're bored? I was bored.

So when you're bored, you just get creative. Yeah. I'll of a sudden think of podcasts and coloring books. Get a master's, the second master's. Get a master's. No, you're just not. I mean, I taught myself to knit. Like, also, I mean,

who are you? I don't know. I really don't know. But I think, to your original question about the podcast, I don't know where it's going to go. But I know that, I mean, I do everything myself right now. So I'll record it. I edit it.

I talk, I go through the whole guest process. Who is this guy? Can you guys have you on this? But there's so much that I'm learning through the process. I'm also learning the parts I don't. like. Right. Like, do I want to offload of that eventually, but it's also my baby in a way, right? Because it's so close to me. I love that you're doing that because a lot of podcasts, I mean, like, mine is business related. So I want to talk about business all the time. And with business, you know,

it's like, it is kind of like machismo, a little macho. You don't really, but I do think a big part of podcasts that are missing is that authentic piece. Where like, you know, I see a lot that are talking about the bullshit in the world with celebrities and things that really don't matter. And, you know, they're just sitting there talking shit about knots. But I love that you have a real space for people with real stories and real life perception of when something tragic happens. You know, you're using that to help them navigate through the world. I love that.

Well, I appreciate that. I'm just really honored. Every time someone comes on, I'm like, I can't believe you want to share this story with me. Just from any, and it doesn't have to be tragic. I think that's important to. What was the craziest story that you've heard? You know, have to use things.

The one that came out today, actually. This woman, her 18, 19 year old son was caught up in like a, he was in a convenience store and was killed in a gunshot. Someone was robbing the store. And tragic enough, right? Like you don't want to relate to someone losing your child in that way, getting the phone call, having to go to hospital, turn off life support, all the things that come along with it. Eight months after that, into her grief journey, someone came into her garage

and grabbed her by the hair and tried to pull her out and abduct her. And eventually he said he was looking for someone to kill that night. And you think of these stories and you're like, instantly, I think as a human, you're like, well, my story is not so bad, right? But it is. Because my story was the worst thing that ever happened to me. In your life. And it's really interesting to think of that because you hear these crazy horrible tragedies from other people but at the same time our stories hold space too. We don't diminish our stories

because of these bigger more tragic events that we hear from other people. So that's probably the craziest story that I've heard that like I can't believe something like that would happen twice like two tragedies following each other. That's great. What about uncomfortable? Were you uncomfortable? Or maybe you know an uncomfortable? I think so. At this point, I don't think I get too uncomfortable because I think if they're comfortable telling their story, then I need to honor that and I need to hold the space. I will say that after recording, sometimes I need to go do some self-care of nap or walk or whatever it is to take care of myself because as a natural empath, you kind of absorb a lot of that energy. So I have to be, I've taught myself to be careful over the last couple of years with that. the podcast as well.

Yeah, because then you go down the rabbit hole and then you're, I know, I know. And I'm the empath too. So then I just want to know more. This is why I couldn't do social work. I did social work for a little bit. I had to get out of it. It was horrible because I would just get involved with these families and then I couldn't do it anymore. It's too much.

But I like what you said because everybody has a story and nobody's story is more crucial than the other story or more critical. I think we all hold, you're right. Because in your life, that was the most critical, sad, tumultuous time of your life. It doesn't matter compared to somebody else's story. Well, and how many one-upers did you grow up with? I mean, probably a lot. I know, yeah.

Like a lot of people are like, well, listen to this. This is much worse. And I've just really learned that, like, I can't let other people or myself diminish my own story. Because it's just, I don't know, we're human. We're trying to make it through this life in the best way possible. And if we're putting ourselves down, then everyone else is going to do it too. Yeah. I mean, and I think it aligns with your show in a sense of like business leaders, you don't need to show off.

You don't need to like, here's all my awards and here's all my, like most normal people don't care. Nobody cares. They want to, I think more people relate to the valleys in your life, like when you were struggling before you jumped into your business. And people hear that story and they're like, oh, there's hope for me because I'm in that valley. It's so true. You know? It doesn't matter. Your trophy.

chest, that's not going down with you. But what's going down with you is the legacy that you're leaving behind and your story of how you got to where you, how you got to where you got, you know, ultimately. And you're right. Like when you're, when we talk about business, so many times business owners or people at the top, they want to talk about all the great things. Well, let's take a moment. Let's peel back some, some layers and talk about those vulnerable moments that really shaped you to get where you needed to go. Exactly. Let's talk about that. Yeah. You know, and business owners didn't become businessless. I wish I could tell you that I was an anomaly and all my accolades, that's how I got to where I'm at.

That's a lie. That would be a complete lie. It came through loss. It came through failure over and over and over. It came through life experience, life lessons. It wasn't the good times. Those are the times, you know. You barely remember those.

Yeah. It's the bad. It's the grit. That's what it is. It's the grit that gets you where you need to go. Well, it's the moments that you don't even think you can get past. Right? Like, I mean, in your story that I've heard, you know, when you're starting out in the first six months where like,

Horrible. Didn't make any money. Didn't, you know, like, how the hell am I going to get out of this? Yeah. And then two years after that, you look back and you're like, damn, I did that. Like, that valley taught me some lessons. Probably when I was six, I felt the same way. Like, my world was changing and I'm thinking to myself, I don't, you know, I didn't understand completely

what it meant. Right. But, you know, it's the same, it's the same mentality. It was that moment in life that ended up defining ultimately who I was going to become. Yeah. That's really what happened. And it's so important to talk about these things so people do learn and they feel open enough. Yeah. I've talked to bosses in which they'll share their story and it's just like, I just want to help

them at this point now. Like not in a friendly way, but like at work. like let's succeed together because now I know your story. I love that. Now I can connect with you. I don't care about your awards or your title or. It doesn't matter. Not you in particular.

Yeah, it's fine. They're not that impressive. I love your title. I don't even know my title half the time. So let's talk a little bit more about your podcast. So you don't know which direction you're going in with it. You are helping people. So what was like the best outcome you've heard so far?

So you're talking to people. They're changing. they're opening up. So has anybody like opened up and then all of a sudden they had this aha pivotal moment and it took them in a completely different direction and now they're soaring through life? Yes, but I think there are maybe navigating in better waters. One that that feels most impactful for me was I had actually I used to teach at a school here in Orlando and I had a student.

I was a teacher. I'm sorry. I was as well. it was higher education. It was a lifetime ago, it feels like. But I had a student and years after I was, her teacher, she came on the podcast and she opened up for the first time about her infertility and the journey that no one talks about because people are ashamed to, I don't know why, but. Because you're broken or imperfect. I guess. And so she mentioned it and what a struggle it was to get to having her kids. And she felt such power when that,

episode came out and people heard it and reached out to her and said, you know, people in her own circle that she didn't even know we're struggling as well reached out to her. That's, I think that's impactful. But what she did was she took that experience, that power that came from sharing her story and getting it off her chest. She went to the HR department at her company and she petitioned that the company offer fertility treatment or adoption help for all employees. And now, that company offers like a $50,000 stipend of some sort to help people have families, like people that she, you know, that she was before. And so to me, that's super powerful because not only did telling her story help her,

but now imagine the ripple effect of her just being slightly brave enough to share her story in that way. I love that. So, you know, like it didn't change her life, but maybe it changed a lot of, other lives. Yeah, I love that. And that's a big part of who I am and what I believe in is servitude, right? Changing and like positively impacting every single person that I meet. And you're doing that. You're doing the model of our company, which is hope. You're helping other people every day. So your podcast, I mean, I am so impressed by, at first I was a little hesitant. I'm like, I don't know how this is going to relate either. But it's super relatable. I think everybody needs a

safe space, whether it's in the workplace or just, you know, leadership in general, continued education and talking about their imperfections so people can learn from them or at least be relatable so people don't feel like they're alone. Yeah. I'm not saying dump all your, no. It's not therapy at work, but at the same time, I think there's no need to try to be perfect. I tried for 30 plus years. It's not a fun journey. No. It's not your authentic self. It's it's much easier to live broken, I guess, flawed. Maybe that's a better word. Because we all are flawed.

Of course. And that's what people don't realize is that nobody is perfect. Nobody. We are all with flaws. Do you want to be perfect? No, what is perfect even mean? I feel like that's not even a real word. Because perfect to you might not be perfect to me.

So we are perfectly imperfect. And there's nothing wrong with that. I like it. I'll send you that poem that I wrote like when I was a teenager. It's called Perfectly Imperfect. I have to see it. So for someone out there that is struggling right now and somebody that is just kind of, you know, just down and out on their luck, maybe they're doing really, really bad in life. What advice could you give to somebody?

Whether it's, it doesn't matter if it's anybody, just anybody out there, what would you say to them? From what I've learned and the people that I talk to, I think find a way to share your story, whether that's to a friend, whether that's writing on a piece of paper. when that story's in your head is much scarier. It's much harder to deal with. But once you put it out on paper, once you tell somebody, it's like, okay, it's out there. Now I can do what I need to do with it,

whether that's a bigger journey of some kind of therapy or something like that. But I think finding a way to get it out of you into something, I think my big breakthrough in, or halfway through my grief journey, was writing. And just writing my feelings about the time,

and my mom died. And so I would say to anyone that's feeling that way is to find someone or something like an outlet in which you can express your feelings, like truthfully and not in a performative way. And I think that's kind of the first step. From all the stories that I've heard, most people, yeah, I would agree.

I think when you put it, when you put the pen to paper and you actually see what you're writing, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. It makes a whole. lot of sense who you are as a person. It's just, it kind of, it's real. It's dealing with your, your true self. And sometimes you're like, oh, well, it doesn't seem that bad on paper. It's never that bad. The reality is, you know as someone that's anxious.

Oh, yeah. You put it on paper, you're like, okay, I can do it. Oh, my God. In your head, it's like, blah. It's until you write it down. And then when you see it, it's like, it's not terrible. The world is not coming to an end. Do you think there is light at the end of the tunnel for, you know, somebody that's gone through something so traumatic. Do you think that, I don't think you ever, I don't think you ever get over your grief. I think you learn to deal with it. But do you think there, do you think that we are ever truly healed? That's a good question. I don't think completely. I think in situations you can be. And the reason I say that is, when I figured out how to grief, my grandmother got sick. And she was

like, my grandmother, she lived in the same neighborhood that you lived in in plantation. and when she got sick, I knew what I needed to do to grieve her through the process. We had that final conversation. We sat down face to face and said all the things that we were thankful for for each other, all the things we did for each other. But I wouldn't have done that on the other journey. So, like, my mom, I don't know if that's ever healed, but because I did what I was able to do with my grandmother,

when she passed, I felt healed. You did? I can't even talk about death. I can't say the word. I don't, I mean, you just need to do it more. Oh, I can't, I cannot deal. That's funny that you, that's not funny, but that is ironic because I won't have a conversation about my will.

I will not have the conversation about any of this. Like I don't want to talk about what happens. Like my mom wants to have this conversation where everything is. No, I don't want anything. I just can't do it. So that is something that makes me very uncomfortable, like super uncomfortable. It was not comfortable having the conversation. but it was important.

And it was important for her because she had been such a big part of my life and it was important for me because she had taken over as the mother figure in my life. I sat by her bedside for the last 96 hours. I did all the things that like I didn't get to do with my mom. And so to your original question of, do you think you can be healed?

I think situationally you can be healed. I don't know as a human you can because there's so many facets to being a human. I think one thing you said that was super crucial that I've never ever thought about. It's not about being comfortable. It's important or uncomfortable. It doesn't matter.

It's what's important. I never thought of it that way ever. It's really hard to have that conversation and if I could tell anyone, like if you can do it, if you can muster the strength to do it, do it. Because I had zero regrets when she died.

And I don't think I can say that about other experiences that end, whether that's a life or whatever it may be. After that conversation, I left her apartment and I was like, she's going to die tonight. She didn't. But I felt this piece because there was nothing left on Zed. So all your questions, like those what-if questions, did you ever think about, like I did for a lot, many, many years, thought about the things I'd ask my dad or say to my dad. I still do. I still think there's pieces. I tell people that that grief journey of losing my mom is over, but I still think of like, what if she showed up now? I think this too. I still think this. It's crazy. Like, what if I could have her on my podcast? Yeah, I always think I'm like, maybe my dad will come out of nowhere and be like, hey, I really wasn't dead all these years. Yeah, I really was, you know, I was in Mexico, just hanging out and here. Like, I've, I really still, it's crazy because my mind reverts back to when I was six years old. It's protecting. I mean, I think that, Maybe eventually we'll find that space. Or maybe when we meet whatever's next, we'll figure that out.

Here's a question, uncomfortable. Do you think that there's life after here? No, I don't. But I think it's because I lost my mom when I was a kid. Do you have? Do you think? No, I don't think so. I think it's because we lost. Because it doesn't make sense if you lose as a kid.

But I think if you lose people later in life and you haven't experienced tragedy in that way, maybe it's more this hope feeling but I'm also not super religious so did you lose faith in God a little bit after I didn't I don't think I ever really had a strong I think I had like a faith but I don't think I had a religion yeah so for a long time in that journey of like trying to figure out my mom was gone could I talk to her I didn't get any sign you know so I think you all the reality sets in that like it's final it's final i'm never going to hear like give me a sign nothing's happening so yeah i don't think i ever really i think it's because losing i mean i feel the same way i don't there was never a sign my dad never spoke to me there was something weird that happened once i'll

tell you a story really quick that happened it was really weird to hear you like crying stuff i saw i saw i saw it's probably the same thing this is a true story um so i my mom really wanted me to play the piano forever. So she forced me to play the piano. And I hated playing the instrument, hated it. So I finally decided, like in ninth grade, I'm going to quit the piano. I never even could read. It was so stupid. I would just play by ear and like, I hated this piano. And my mom was like, I'll never forget. She was like, your dad would be so happy that you're playing the piano. I'm like, Daddy's dead. And then all of a sudden, I promise this happened. The blinds, and I don't even believe in the ghosts or any of this stuff. The blind started moving. The light started flickering.

And we had baskets that went around the top of like my mom's kitchen. One tilted. Now, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what happened. But that is like the craziest story that is ever that I could think of like related to that. I could have made it up in my head, but I don't think so. Did you play piano after that? No, I still didn't play. But you know, I wrong. So it didn't do anything. No, it did nothing. But ironically, my son is having piano, his first piano lessons today. Oh. Yeah. Ironically.

Yeah. I didn't force him, though. My mom forced me. Yeah, I never had any of those experiences. My grandmother did, and so she kind of wanted to push that on me, but a weird situation, she had a refrigerator, the light never went on. She would always complain to my mom about stupid refrigerator, the light. We can change the light bulb every time.

Nothing works. The day after my mom died, the light went on for the first time ever. And so that was her sign. That was always, they were very close. My mom. And her mom. It was my dad's mom. but they were very close.

And so that was her sign. And I think that brought her through the grief journey, but it didn't do anything for me because I was like, well, it's probably just electricity. Yeah, I don't know. It was just where, I know, just being a realist. Yeah. So I just want to wrap things up.

But right now, I do want to thank you for taking the leap. I know you're a little hesitant, but I want you to know that what you're doing is super helpful. It doesn't matter if it's in the business world or your everyday world, but you have a space for people. that feel vulnerable. I mean, there's probably people that have gone on your podcast that this is really their last hope. And that says a lot about who you are and the type of person, because I know you're not getting paid to do it. So this is simply just an act of giving back.

And that's a huge part of what I believe in is giving back to however you possibly can. So I'm super excited that you came on today. Is there anything that you want to add? Do you want to tell anybody how people can find you sure well thank you i will accept that i'm not great at accepting compliments as you mentioned i was like uh is this going to be the right thing but no i i really thank you for that it's it's been quite a wonderful journey for myself as well it's been a really nice healing journey if people are interested in the life shift podcast they can just go to the life shift podcast not if there are a lot of people if you want to hear stories that are probably just like yours go to the LifeShift Podcast.com. Right now, I think there's 170 plus interview episodes where people get

really vulnerable and personal. And so there's got to be something out there that people will gravitate towards. So I love that. Or connect with me on social media. It's all the Life Shift podcast. I'm around sharing all my vulnerabilities and brokenness. And it's lovely. You know, in a world that we are stuck to societal norms and we are in a world of, social media and just a world that is so unauthentic. It is a breath of fresh air to have a person like you in this world that is simply there for people in general. And I think we've lost sight of that as an entire community that we're so inundated and unintentional and we're into, you know, not listening exactly what you said, be present. It's hard to take the phone away and be present.

So I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity and privilege of sitting with you today and for allowing me to not only share and be uncomfortable with you, but for sharing your story with everybody else. I appreciate you and I love what you're doing. I think it'll help people to know the valleys. So keep telling your story too. Yeah. So the food for thought today is don't ever, don't not be, don't be afraid.

Don't be afraid of anything. Don't be afraid to share your story. Don't be afraid to be authentic. Live your truth. It doesn't matter if you've lost. If you haven't lost, it doesn't matter. Just be you. And if you ever feel like you want a space or a place where you can share your story,

there are people still in this world that care about you. Until next time.