Bill Meyer Show Podcast - Sponsored by Clouser Drilling www.ClouserDrilling.com - 01-06-26_TUESDAY_6AM

Episode Date: January 7, 2026

01-06-26_TUESDAY_6AM

The Bill Meyer Show podcast is sponsored by Klausur drilling. They've been leading the way in southern Oregon well drilling for over 50 years. Find out more about them at Klausor drilling.com. Here's Bill Meyer. Well, what do you know? It is the first pebble in your shoe Tuesday of 2026, 10 minutes after six. Join it at 770563-770KMED, the email at Bill at Billmyershow.com. Read them all.

Try to answer as many as I can, but I am the staff. I love it when people write me up and say, Bill, get it to your show. staff, all right. Here you go. I appreciate you being here. It's what makes a great talk radio here in southern Oregon. It's our, it's our family. It is our, of course, the, what is, the libs are always talking about? What, we have to have community, our community. Yeah, our, our commune as it is. But you can go ahead and join the community, 7705-633-77-O-K-M-E-D. We're going to talking quite a bit this morning about health care. There was an interesting op-ed piece

that was in, I think it was the Daily Collar, I think is where it was that I was reading. And it was talking about the next election, the midterm elections, will likely be decided by America's sick. And they're talking about the people that are really getting screwed to the wall over insurance and medical costs

and all the rest of it. I'm going to talk with Julie Hagman and she's a C.O. of a group that helps care for seniors in their home. that sort of thing. And she ended up testifying in the New York Senate, the New York State Senate recently over such matters. And everyone's trying to pretend that, you know, nothing really bad is going on here. And it's more than just Obamacare, apparently. I'm looking forward to talking with Julian. By the way, it's Julian. I said Julie. I meant Julian, okay?

We're also going to check in with Josephine County Commissioner Chris Barnett. He's going to join the show after seven o'clock now today is election day this is the last day to actually get your ballots in there for the recall election uh one way or the other it's uh one of those now i've made it very clear i am not a fan of recalls in general i just don't like it i don't think it's been good policy i think it's just essentially been weaponized politics in josephine county especially i haven't supported any of these recalls not that i support the people in office it's not that but uh To me, you've got to give some people some time to figure out how to do these gigs. And the idea that everyone's going to fix everything all at once in the first few months,

I mean, gosh, you barely – well, this is the challenge, I think, that Josephine County has, that even though I have criticized the professionalized government services, this whole idea that you have to have an administrator, a highly paid administrator everywhere you go. there is a certain case to be made that it's a lot easier to dot the eyes and cross the T's in a very complex legal system these days when you have an administrator who's at least there to make sure that boards are able to take care of business but don't get out over their skis. One could argue that the Josephine County Commission, not having an administrator, has had those kind of challenges. But I'll talk with Commissioner Barnett about that. And we'll also kick this around about the craziness in Josephine County

with former state senator and former Josephine County Commissioner, Herman Berchiger. We always talk about politics with him every week. And we're also going to be talking about an interesting story. Richard Lyons, who's an interesting guy, has written a book called The DNA of Democracy. And I'm going to talk with him about this. It does appear that democracy is getting us ready. for war, especially with China. There's an interesting story in Newsweek about the military is opening up World War II Air Force bases in the Pacific Island and appears to be prepping for war with China.

Now, I don't know if we're necessarily going to go to war with China or not. There is a part of me that thinks that, you know, what they're calling the Don Roe doctrine, the Don Roe doctrine, you know, Donald Trump kind of going. all into the Monroe Doctrine when it comes to the decapitation of what passed as the government in Venezuela over the weekend, you know, about that story. We were talking about that yesterday. Maybe this is one of those situations where Donald Trump is making it clear, okay, China, Russia, Europeans, you're not going to be playing in our backyard.

Might this mean that we back away from Taiwan and maybe kind of do a slow motion exit from the Ukraine confrontation. It's like, okay, we're going to have the Monroe Doctrine. We're going to take care of the Western Hemisphere. You people in the East, or you are the ones that are going to be in charge of what's happening in Ukraine, et cetera, et cetera, and with Taiwan. And maybe you end up seeing the point where, whether we like it or not, Taiwan ends up kind of becoming a Hong Kong sort of situation with China, with mainland China. I don't know, I don't know, but we'll talk with Richard about this. Richard writes eloquently on such matters, and we'll have him on too.

Also happy to take your calls on Pebble in Your Shoe Tuesday. Some of the top stories we have here. Jackson County Library, the board ended up meeting yesterday. I had mentioned that they were going to do this. Yesterday, they started a meeting at 10. By the way, it was a long meeting. It was a three-hour meeting, and word has it. that everybody that was at that meeting

ended up getting big traffic tickets from the city of Medford in downtown. Yeah, two-hour meeting. Yeah, I have to tell you this whole idea of parking tickets and all the rest of it, and boy, you have to go into the parking prison or else you're screwed on the street

or else you have to. What's the other thing you have to do? Oh, you have to get an app, right? We don't have meters any longer. You have to get the stupid app. I refuse to get the stupid app. And I don't know. You just get to the point

where you want to refuse to go into the downtown areas with these kind of deals. But, yeah, just about everybody who was at that meeting yesterday is about three, four dozen people, apparently. They ended up getting tickets put out there by the collection transfers, as it were. But the Jackson got back to what the board actually did, though, after they found out they got their traffic tickets there. They ended up placing library director Kerry May on a couple of weeks' paid administrative leave. Now, this is all about the alleged pervert in the talent library,

looking at the pictures of the naked kids and the videos of the naked kids and zooming in. And the library employees and patrons were getting all hot and bothered about this. And upper management in the library district seemed to be more concerned about the alleged perverts privacy. And I don't know anybody, I haven't heard about anybody on that board that is defending the pervert. the alleged pervert, okay? No one's going there. This seems to be something which bipartisan. Everybody wants to do something about this.

And what they have done is put the director. Now, the director, Kerry May, was hired for something in the neighborhood, $125,000. Pretty good pay here for Southern Oregon. And apparently, she's going to have a couple of weeks or so to think about this. And whether there's going to be a termination or some other kind of disciplinary action, We're not sure at this point, but she may be on her way out, maybe looking for a new director of the Jackson County Library. Anyway, a good article in the Road Valley Times goes into all the deal.

The other thing that they have done is the alleged pervert has been banned from using the library district computers. And he has also been, I think he was originally given a one-week suspension from library. privileges apparently they're going to expand that library suspension so he's not going to be allowed to go back into the library for a while but he will no longer ever be allowed to use the computers again as far as criminal or potential criminal charges for the library alleged pervert and we don't know this is something that is being done right now by uh talent police talent police are in the process of this investigation and i guess talent police will let us know whether they let us know. I know that Logan Vaughn ended up popping me

a email the other day and he had a video and he was confronting Sheriff Nate Sickler out in front of the courthouse. So exactly knowing this happened. But he was kind of questioning him as to, well, why hasn't the sheriff been getting involved in this one? And I told Logan and I would tell you too, there's no need for the Jackson County sheriff to get involved in this particular case at this point in time. talent police there is a you know an actual law enforcement district there it's not like it's gold hill that doesn't have a uh uh its own police department and the sheriff is the primary law person there but you know it's kind of like that order of priority or what's the

chain of command so to speak talent police can do the investigation first now naturally a jackson county sheriff nate sickler and the department can get involved with that if for some reason that appears to be a problem where they're not able to, you know, do a good investigation or also if they are asked for help, you know, just keep in mind that the sheriff doesn't sit there and get involved in every city police department unless needed, because, well, frankly, there's enough work for them to do out there in the unincorporated county, as it were, okay? So we don't know what's happening when it comes to the law enforcement aspect of this, but the point being, I know we get in a real hurry on something like this.

So we see someone looking at little kid pictures. We just want them picked up and thrown in jail. I think what's going to go on is that talent police will investigate very thoroughly and very carefully. And if there are criminal charges that could be filed, they want to make sure that they follow all the procedures, once again, dot the eyes and cross the T's. And then you bring that to the Jackson County District Attorney, you bring it to the grand jury, et cetera. And then we see if charges are filed. So we're not saying that this library patron, rather, is out of the woods at this time. But we don't know if anything at this point, because we don't have the evidence in front of us.

Everything we're hearing about is what other people are saying that they saw. It's all hearsay, this kind of thing. And so we'll see where this goes. Okay. So that is the latest. The library director probably on her way out. Something tells me the library board is going to want to. move this particular case along.

21 minutes after 6, you're on the Bill Meyer show. This is KMED. Hi, everyone. Amber Rose here with Siscue pump service and rotary drilling company. Allroofingink.com. License number is CCB-250730. Hi, I'm Steve Potter,

Body Shop Manager of Lithia Body and Paint, and I'm on KMED. 623, join in at 7705-633 as we go over the rest of the headlines. H.O.B.I. reporting this morning, Medford man not going to be charged following that November shooting death of Martin Jimenez Jr. That was the 32-year-old. Remember this was the big guy that ended up attacking another man at that Hawthorne Street apartment?

It happened in November last year. And Rogers ended up hearing this big commotion. And he was the good guy with a gun here in Southern Oregon. Saw that man they later identified as Jimenez trying to break into a nearby apartment. and Rogers armed with his gun shot and killed Jimenez, who was beating up and assaulting Rogers' elderly neighbor. After the investigation, they figured out that Jimenez was very drunk and that may have led to his irrational, very poor choices.

But, yeah, the good guy with a gun, not going to be charged, no build. And so that's some pretty good news. We're happy about that. The West Coast Health Alliance, this story came out. late yesterday. I'll have a little bit of what K2, K2 in Portland reporting, despite the Trump administration announcing Monday a reduction in the number of vaccines, it's recommending for the kids, the West Coast Health Alliance, that is the cabal of the West Coast states, because anything that the Trump administration must be resisted, you know how this goes. And so the West Coast

Alliance has said that it's going to continue to support the vaccine schedule, recommend by the American Academy of Pediatrics. The CDC reduced the number of recommended vaccines for all children from 17 to 11. So they took it down from 17 to 11 yesterday. And they no longer recommend vaccinations for flu. Roto virus, hepatitis A, hepatitis B. Usually sexually or drug transmitted diseases. Yeah, why are you worried about kids with that?

But I digress. some forms of meningitis and also RSV. They're now only recommended for certain high-risk groups. And, of course, the Alliance said in the news release that they're very concerned that essentially children will die. Children will die because of not having the 17 vaccines, which probably means what, 30, 40, 50 jabs by the time you're a teenager. and I haven't had a lot of these vaccinations that they're talking about in this deal. I mean, I myself haven't had them. I'm 65 in reasonably good health.

Yeah, I've got some problems like anybody else might have, just a pretty minor ones in the whole grand scheme of things. And I was just wondering, I went to school starting in 1967, and I did a little query online. I'm just going, okay, what vaccines were required in 1967? the dark day, the dark days of 1967 when I was a first grader at Adlai E. Stevenson Elementary School. So long ago that that school doesn't even exist. It was torn down just a few years ago in the Plumboro area in Pennsylvania.

So old that, yeah, it's gone now. So in the dark days of 1967 in Western America, in Western medicine, though, you're going to school. what were you required to have? Well, in 1967, a typical U.S. child entering school would have been only required to have smallpox. The smallpox vaccine that was nearly universal across the United States. Also, recommended but not always required, DTP and polio. So the DTAP and polio recommended. but not always required.

I remember my school required that you get polio. So I ended up getting the polio vaccine. I don't know if I got detap or not. Available but rarely required measles. So the measles vaccine was out at that point, but you weren't required to have it. Now, I had measles when I was a teenager, and I ended up having that a little bit later.

I think it was 15 or 16 when I had measles finally. non-existent vaccines are unavailable, mumps, rebella, hepatitis B, the Hibbaracella, COVID, et cetera, et cetera. So for some reason, the Republic survived with kids going to school only taking one or two vaccines. That's all I remembered, just a handful. And I think the smallpox was the one that gave you the scar on the arm. That's the one that I remembered the most. I think it came with a gun. The polio, I think, came in a sugar cube.

And I don't know. I may have received some other ones. You know, I'm not sure about it. But anyway, somehow we survived. But the West Coast Health Alliance, which I think is just a salesperson for the big pharmaceuticals here, they're concerned. Children will die. So they're insisting the 17 vaccines required continue to be forced. forced into the kids, even though the Trump administration is saying,

we're really only recommending 11. So there you go. Just think about that. But at the same time, in the state of Oregon, we have a very, very high percentage of parents who are opting their kids out of the vaccines in the first place. So I guess it's just a formality. 628.

It's Pebble in your shoe Tuesday. Hi, good morning. This is Bill. Who's this? this is holly from grand pass how you do bill i'm doing fine holly how everything's going for you this morning well they're doing okay you know i'm just thinking about the lack of trust people have after the whole covid incident but um we yeah i'll tell you the west coast health alliance i don't think necessarily has my trust just saying i don't think they're looking out for me but just saying right

right you know but actually what i called in about that is important is we this is the last day to vote against the recall of Chris Barnett. And, you know, people need to get their ballots, and it's critically important. And their crazy team of people, the opposing team, is out there every night. They pull all the signs down, chop them up. Yeah, I've been hearing there's been a lot of political sign vandalism going on in Joe County.

Oh, unbelievable. They cut out the no one put yes in it. They cut the signs up every night. Yeah, the team has to go. It's just not being run cleanly, and people need to understand that if they don't actually get their ballot in and vote no, then, you know, then the yes ballots have much more weight. This is the challenge that I've had with this whole idea of the recall in the first place. It's done in a time that people are not paying attention politically. This is very strategic, I think, in this particular recall.

And the fact that people will get that, and they're going to say, hey, I just voted for Chris Barnett, will just say, I just want, I don't need. to take part in this? No, I mean, not voting is the equivalent of a yes vote or it gives the yes vote that much of an easier chance. That's all there is to it, okay? That's absolutely true. And John, that's how they got John West out. That was ridiculous. He was doing a fine job. I think he was doing an excellent job trying to get the budget balance in our community. Anyway. Well, you know, the challenges that are facing Josephine County are not going to be fixed just by throwing everybody out who's there. It's just not. It'd be great if that was the case. The challenges

then for Josephine County, it's a math problem. And they're going to have to work through the math problem, right they, you know, essentially? That's absolutely correct. That's absolutely correct. People need to understand. You know what? In the world right now, people are recognizing you kind of have to run things like a business. You know, if everything is run on emotions and you're not paying attention to the bottom line, you end up in the situation that we have now, which is trillions of in debt. Josephine County is sort of a microcosm of that problem, and that is that we are basically running out of money. And when we run out of money, oh, my gosh, everybody's going to be losing their mind, that taxes are going to go up, the services are going to go down, and they're

all going to be blaming the various same people that they're trying to get rid of who are trying to set things straight. But they're going to lose their minds, because, you know, when the Taxes are doubled, and, you know, the potholes in the street are two feet deep, you know, then people are going to start recognizing the problems. I don't know. I don't know if they're going to be able to recognize this problem or not, Holly. I wish that were the case, but generally speaking, Josephine County, and you've got to remember the actual only money that's coming in in Josephine County that goes directly to the county

for county services. Now, they do take a cut for administration of the sheriff levy, and they also take a cut out of the library levy, you know, the administration costs of it. You know, there's a small amount of that taken out, but it's still roughly 58 cents per thousand. It's a tiny amount of money. I mean, even the basic levy in Jackson County is $2 at a penny that funds the county government and also the sheriff's department there, too. It's just amazing. and this is a measure 60 kind of problem and it's very difficult for the county just all of a sudden find all sorts of wealth to hire to hire all sorts of people when they have all sorts of services

and it's been living a lot on grant stream funding and and COVID money for the last few years right I mean that's really the way I see it how it's been working and but what people don't recognize sometimes is that Jackson County and Joseph Josephine County while side by side are very different Josephine County has got, I think, like, $35,000 or something like that, average income, whereas Jackson County is much, much higher, and you have a much broader tax base. You've got more people, and, you know, you charge more tax. You've got a much broader tax base. Josephine County is a very poor county.

Well, also, lots of physical area to cover, and a lot of it untaxed because it's federal government or state government land in one form or another? Well, not only that, but you have places like Asante Hospital who own tons and tons of property. They're non-profit so they don't pay taxes. They have a lot of nonprofit organizations controlling properties and things like that, for which they pay no taxes. That's not helpful to everyone. So I think a lot of people, they just don't really understand the business of government.

And that's why we run into problems, you know, because they just, they're very emotional. should have housing for everyone and we should have this we should be providing that and i and i should have no taxes either you know it's the other thing that i think that the people will say now uh grants pass is in considerably better financial shape overall but on the other hand the city of grants pass uh spends a whole ton of money on their on their services there too that's the other thing we got to keep in in josephine county cannot actually uh provide that same level okay But anyway, I think it's a bad idea. I think this particular recall, I think the last several recalls in Josephine County have been unwise,

but unwise activity can still happen unless people come out and vote no on it. I appreciate the call, Holly. Thanks for making it happen, all right? 634. We'll catch up on the rest of the news here in just a minute. And we'll also be digging into health care. Is the next election going to be decided by the sick? Well, it's looking like that.

The wait is over. Eagle's Gas Depot is now. Open, bringing you a brand new way to fuel up their favorite podcasts. This is News Talk 1063, KMED, and you're waking up with the Bill Myers Show. 638. I was reading an op-ed in the Hill, the hill.com, and it was talking about the next election, the midterm elections, and it's posing something, which I think is very thought-provoking. The next election will be decided by America Sick, the people who are having great difficulty

making stuff happen and making their lives pencil. That is a real thing. It is a real thing. And Obamacare was supposedly there to help us pencil. Doesn't appear that that is absolutely working at all or in any way. It is a care act. It's just an unaffordable care act, unfortunately. So where do we go on something like that?

So I want to talk to someone who is sort of in the trenches in this battle. It's Julian Hagman. And he's the chief operating officer of caring professionals. and it's great to have you on morning. How you been? I'm doing very well. Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah. What is your website, caring professionals, and also what are you all about? Because I think you work mostly in just New York State, right? We're statewide New York State. Websites, Canling Professionals.com.

We are a licensed home care service agency across the state. It's been around for 32 years providing services for the elderly and disabled of the state. most recently we were basically kicked out of a program being the state awarded state-sanction monopoly to an out-of-state vendor, which is roughly $11 billion a year of the program. And you were testifying there before the New York State Senate about this. Obviously, you were not real happy about this. What was going on that they felt the need to kick you out and bring in an out-of-state vendor and then give this a, this, this firm of a monopoly or something like that, what you're saying?

Yeah, sure. So, you know, I was very involved on the legislative side, speaking with Hockel's staff. They were preaching efficiency, economies of scale, you know, reduce fraud through efficiency, and everything along those lines, all those key hot topic words that everyone keeps hearing these days, which, you know, now is time's fruition, right? it may not be the case to solve the fraud issues. You know, making a monopoly or one provider, the sole provider of a program, you know, it creates opportunity for that provider to hide fraud easier.

That's really interesting. So this is kind of going back to the medical fraud that we're talking about or the welfare fraud in Minnesota. And so the solution being brought forth, Okay, instead of having a bunch of daycares or a bunch of home providers like you, you know, in home, in home, we're just going to give it to some big faceless corporation. Is that the plan to fix it all? Sure. And by doing that, they removed all of the local services throughout the entire state.

So, you know, in doing this, they removed 600 companies that were providing the service. And all these service providers were all in individual counties throughout the state, right? providing the local service for people that's connected to the people and Albany people in Buffalo, Rochester. You named the county, right? They are now out of this program, and it is all done through a call center. Okay. So once again, bigger, get bigger, smaller, go out of business. So you either have to get huge or you're out of business.

Is that the way it's looking in the medical world, the way it is currently being? You know, I think so. And I don't even think it's necessarily bigger. It's who you know, right? And what favors have you done and what favors have you promised? Because that is, you know, part of my lawsuit against the company that won this big. And, you know, they were, it was a big, big road from the beginning. You know, I was on the floor in Albany when this was going down before the budget was passed in 25,

where it was known that they were going to win the contract before the contract was even being announced that there would be a contract. How could they know they were going to win the health care? contract before it was even awarded. How do they know? It's funny. It's funny. I mean, we have tweets from, you know, Democratic and Republican, Assemblymen, senators in New York State that say, you know, I bet you $500 million that, you know, the PPL, the company that won the RFP and the bid will win the bid. And this was a year before the bid came out. Okay. All right. Julian Hagman once again, Chief Operating Officer of Caring Professionals.

By the way, you're at one of those companies that help keep elderly and patients and medical patients in their home, right? It's at lower costs than like an institution. Is that kind of the whole purpose of this? Did I understand this correctly? That's absolutely the whole purpose. And the whole purpose of caring professionals

was the offer of the continuity of home and community-based services to our clients. And when the state comes in and starts picking out, You know, programs that they want to have over there, they're removing access for my clients to be able to get into other programs that may suit them better or temporarily suit them better if their needs change and everything along with. Yeah, but you're not going to be able to do this anymore. What happens now in this medical world?

So it's done. I mean, this was enacted last year. That sole company is running this program currently. I have, you know, a lawsuit against them. I'm going for discovery against this new company, so I can get the email communications between them and the state showing that there was collusion, which, you know, will, you know, ripple down fraud. And this isn't just a New York issue. This is a nationwide issue. This company has been kicked out of other states.

They're currently working in other states. And it's the same playbook. It's just on a lot larger of a scale in New York. What is it about the United States health care system, whether it's Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare. It's all kind of connected. What is it, which is driving, what is it about the way it's constructed that drives these kind of actions that appear to be shady or that you either have to be huge or you don't have a chance at getting into these care facilities?

And it just seems like it's designed to just make everything bigger and more distant in its patient care aspect. What is it about the structures? There's something in the system that forces them? I don't think there's anything in the system that forces this. I think that people look at the dollar amount that goes into these programs, right? And they say, okay, well, that would look great to my bottom line, right? The company that took over the bid is owned by private equity. And so, you know, they don't look at the individual clients. They look at the bottom line. That's exactly what happens when you remove individualized support and the local provider. You lose touch with what the client really needs, and you lose touch on. you know, being able to catch those instances of fraud. Because instead of using systems that were created by the community, right, that are monitored to watch fraud, now you move to a sole proprietorship system that's owned by the company that won the bid

that's able to cover up all the fraud. Oh, so they end up coming up with the fraud detection program for their own business, right? Exactly. That's correct. What could possibly go wrong? Hey, yeah. Hey, listen, it's okay. I'm over here in New York.

I promise I'm going to be honest about it. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. I mean, I wish I had that opportunity. You know, I'd be able to hide a bunch of stuff, too. But, you know, as a good actor, right? Anytime we came across fraud, we would, you know, send the money back. That's what we do. All right. Now, Julian, I'm engaging in conjecture, but it wasn't that long ago that I had an interview with a former mob guy, Johnny Russo from Vegas. You know, he was out here. And he was talking about in his book, all the stuff that was going on in New York. Is there any evidence to your knowledge that medical world, the medical world, is mobbed up even today or not. I don't want to put words in your mouth. So when you say mobbed up, right, that's sort of a loaded word. I'm going to say yes, and the mob being 1199 SDIU. That's mob. Ah, okay.

That's the fourth branch of government in New York State. So Big Union medicine is what you're saying, right? 100%. Okay. And, of course, what is Big Union? Big Union is essentially mobbed up, even today, isn't it? Correct. 100%.

Okay. So this is a Medicaid, or in the state of Oregon, it would be called Oregon Health Plan. But this was a Medicaid program that you were working in New York then. And so does the federal government have any say in this now, given the fact that they've been pulling back on Medicare funds? And I'm wondering this is what kind of forced Hockel to go with one big guy rather than, allowing you, you know, part of it? There is, you know, a lot of issues that go in from the whole medical side of things, right? I don't really have too much access to outside of my space, but I can assure you that across the board through different programs, there is going to be fraud.

And it's just the way the states have it set up. The states, you know, New York is not alone on this. You know, they outsource a lot of their hiring for their departments of health, right? Through recruitment firms, right? Because most states do GAAP account, right? They don't want to have the payroll of hundreds of people, right? They want it to be a line item on a budget, right? So that way they can sort of hide, you know, the finances.

And through these firms, right, They're owned by the state consultants that write the programs. And so it creates conflicts of interest that go around and around and around because you have the state Medicaid program directors that work for a staffing organization that work that are owned by a consulting firm that consult on state Medicaid. So we have a lot of what you're mentioning here, Julian, is a lot of circular funding. One money, a dollar goes into one. pocket goes into the next dollar's pocket, and they're all friendly with one another.

It's kind of in a circular self, what do they call it, a, it's a feedback loop, a positive feedback loop that grows its organism, right? Is that what we're talking about? Yeah, no stress. That's the way this structured, it's a spider web, right? Because I can start explaining it to you, and it's going to take two dates because it's so, so confusing, right? you have this company A that owns company B, that's giving contracts to company C, that's in conjunction with the union and the state government. And once you start getting through all this stuff, people start losing and rolling your eyes, especially in the healthcare field where, you know, you deal in the world of acronyms

for the most part. So here we are. We have people that are, you know, in desperate situations now. And the Obamacare subsidies, you're familiar with that story, what's been going on. the Obama subsidy, the essential or the additional Obamacare subsidies ended up not getting approved last year. And so a lot of people are seeing their health care exploding costs. Of course, that's because it wasn't affordable in the first place. And so we find ourselves into this, you know, rising insurance, reducing services, rising deductibles.

I mean, all the rest of it. And it's, I mean, it just seems like irresistible force meets. immovable object. You're inside this. What do you see then as a way out of this? Because like this said, this guy in the hill.com is saying he thinks that the next election is going to be hinging on a lot of this health care conversation and sick people involved with this. What do you think? I agree. 100%. I mean, the baby boomers are booming. They're aging in place. They're getting older. And they're the ones that vote. They're the ones to go out and vote. You know, to bring it back to what is the Fed doing about this?

The Department of Justice has been investigating this issue for a year. I've interviewed with the Department of Justice numerous times. I know that they've interviewed with other organizations that are similarly situated as I. And they have also interviewed the company that won, PPL. I've spoken to the DOJ after they have met with the PPL. And they've told me, flat out, flat out that they're slow rolling the information that they're sending them. Yeah, and so I'm expecting the DOJ to be coming out with something in the first quarter of 26. against this because like I said, this is a five-year, $11 billion a year contract.

So it's $55 billion. And you're just, but you see, you're just one state, though. I can't help but think that this same kind of stuff is going on everywhere, especially in Oregon, I would certainly see it here, probably to a smaller extent because we're much smaller population-wise than New York. But still, this is probably, there's probably nothing different from state to state on this one, just maybe to a degree? What do you think? No, it's a systematic issue.

100%. And, you know, it's the same playbook. It just got exposed in New York because there's more providers and more people willing to stick their neck out on the line like me. And because my clients, you know, thousands, I had 5,000 clients in this program that were calling me saying, I don't want to switch to this new provider. They're lowering my rate of pay. My caregivers don't like it. They're not letting them transfer over there overtime. They're PTO, anything along these lines. And so they're calling me very upset. And so I took it very personally, and I've been fighting this for a year and a half, two years almost. Well, I appreciate the fact that you're willing to go to the mat here because nothing happens until somebody gets sued these days, Julian. You know that. And that's my whole point, right? And that's what, you know, on the 15th, I have a conference to discuss discovery. My lawsuit's been on the 15th will be a year since I filed.

And we'll see if I get discovery and see if I can get these communications. and we get him out to the public and show how, you know, New York is, you know, just a corrupt place. And now, you know, it's being ruined and it's, you know, being doled out as favors or promises or who knows what. What is he or asking the lawsuit? What are you asking for? I'm asking for discovery. That's the only thing I want. I want discovery.

I want the information. I want to be able to go and show the information that Hokel's executive team rigs this entire system. okay well that'll be an interesting thing if you get a chance to be able to dig into that now that's the only thing i'm going after i have to ask you though is this strictly a political situation and then it's mostly affected by a blue unionized states or is this something that uh you know even the texas or the ohios of the world would be experiencing to to a greater or lesser extent you have any way of uh being able to wonder that because you know here in the talk radio world, say, oh, okay, a blue hive might. Of course you're corrupt.

Yeah, we get that. But what do you say, Julian? No, I think it's, like I said, it's a systematic issue. And they're very good at being able to cover their tracks and everything along those lines. But if you go into it, and most states have an open book, right, so you can see where the money's really going. And you can go in, and I've done this in other states. I've done this in Democratic states. I've done this in Republican states. And, you know, it's the same playbook throughout, right? you have this one major organization, public consulting group, right?

They own the staffing solutions organization that staffs the people in the individual departments of the health across the union, right? And then they have other companies that win these RFPs, and that literally... Yeah, the request. By the way, that's a request for a proposal, folks, if you didn't know about that. It's like the bid sheet, right? Right. And then they rule out, they figure out how to write that request. request for proposal to eliminate the competition.

So like in New York, in order to apply for this request for proposal, you had to be providing services outside of New York State. Which automatically makes sure that anybody inside the state, like your firm, carrying professionals, is out of contention. You can't get the gig. You can't get the contract at all. Correct. Now, why would the state of New York require anybody that?

that provides these services to provide services outside of New York also. That's a great question, isn't it? That's a great question. I've asked that question numerous times. Why wouldn't you work with the service providers that have been in the state providing the service for a decade? Yeah, why wouldn't you want to work with a multi-state firm rather than one who is in your state under your control?

That doesn't make any sense at all to me, actually. There's a lot that doesn't make sense here. And, you know, we don't have enough time to unpack this. We would need three hours to unpack us. But, yeah, that's just one of the items. Well, I'm going to tell you right now, Julian, good luck on this lawsuit. And keep us in the room on this particular thing. What can we find out?

Where can we find out more about, A, your company, and maybe even about the lawsuit, too, if you don't mind. Oh, not a problem. You can find out about my company visiting care professionals.com. You can check me out on LinkedIn, Julian Hagman. And trust me, when I tell you, there will be many articles. about this when I get, when I, should I get discovery, there will be articles coming out of the times, the post, you name it, I am going to be singing it from the rooftops. And so everyone across the country will hear. Okay. Final question I would have here, we're still talking about

systemic corruption or a design that fosters corruption in the medical world. How would you fix that if you had your magic wand? Because it's probably going to have to be fixed via legislation in some way. What do you think? Yeah, I agree. And I think that, you know, the argument of economies of scale is a false flag. It's a red herring, right? And, you know, everybody then moving the conversation over to, okay, everything should be non-for-profit. And I have many arguments to everything. You know, non-for-profits are great. But not for profit doesn't mean inexpensive, though. It really does it. But, and it also inhibits, you know, growth of a program, growth of technology in a program, growth of anything, right? Because it's a not-for-profit center run as a not-for-profit, right? For-profit into companies are looking for efficiencies, looking for ways to cash fraud before it becomes a systematic issue, looking for, working with providers in the community, technology providers, everything along those lines.

So it grows the program into a better area, right? Yeah. And so by forcing to say everything should be a non-examination. non-for-profit, you know, that's foolish, my view. Yeah. Well, to me, I kind of, and I know that this may be, I don't want to tar everybody, but it just strikes me that the not-for-profit ends up being just another form of a racket, just a different kind of racket. That's my opinion. I don't know if that's yours or not. Yes and no, right? But it doesn't advance any program, right? You don't have anybody

working for non-for-profit saying, okay, what's going to be the next thing? How are we going to better this program. Everyone in a nonprofit world is running a not-profit. They're dealing with the same playbook. They don't want to go back and redesign the playbook. They don't want to find efficiencies. They have to spend the money anyway. So, in other words, the problem with a

not-for-profit, then, is the lack of innovation, then. The inherent... 100%. Yeah. Okay. Now I see where you're getting at, all right? Julian Hagman, once again, Chief Operating Officer, Caring Professionals. Thank for telling us about this situation, because where corruption is happening in New York, it's most likely happening

in all 50 or 57 states, depending on who you're talking to, about that. I appreciate the call. Thanks for being on this morning, Julian. Thank you very much. I appreciate. I appreciate. You have a great day. You too now.

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