Bill Meyer Show Podcast - Sponsored by Clouser Drilling www.ClouserDrilling.com - 01-28-25_TUESDAY_8AM

Episode Date: January 29, 2025

Buddy Levy is my guest, author of REALM OF ICE AND SKY - Triumph, Tragedy, and Historys Greatest Arctic Rescue, a really interesting look back at Artic Exploration history. Open phones follow.

The Bill Myers Show podcast is sponsored by Clouser Drilling. They've been leading the way in Southern Oregon well drilling for over 50 years. Find out more about them at clouserdrilling.com. Buddy Levy joins me. He's an award-winning author known for his books on Arctic history. And his latest is Realm of Ice and Sky, Triumph, Tragedy, and History's Greatest Arctic Rescue. And it's on sale this morning. Isn't that right, Buddy? Welcome to the show. Hey, thanks, Bill. Appreciate it. Yeah, today is pub day. Just dropped. I appreciate it, man. Yeah. Now, why is it that you have tended to write on Arctic history? What is it in your past here that would make you interested in this? Because I would imagine a lot

of people would think that's kind of out on left field in some ways when it comes to history. It's true. Yeah, it's an interesting story. I actually, I guess partly my father was a Nordic ski champion who had competed in the Winter Olympics in 1956, and he moved us to Sun Valley, Idaho when I was 10, and so I was immersed in a place that was 6,000 feet above sea level and quite cold. And I always loved skiing and the Norwegians pioneered skiing. And so there was that part of it. But in 2003, I actually was on a journalistic trip to Greenland. And I was doing a story about a blind adventurer at the time and who was racing in the race in Greenland. And I met a Norwegian woman who gave me a copy of a book called

First Crossing of Greenland by the Norwegian explorer Fritschof Nansen. And as I dug into that and started really immersing myself in Arcticctic exploration and discovery i just became absolutely mesmerized and hooked why did it mesmerize you what is the aspect of the arctic that grabbed you so tightly and uh you and you can just feel the love through the pages of your book by the way oh thank you i suppose it's because the landscape, the seascape, the polar ice, they're so harsh and difficult to survive in, but edges of possibility, and the Arctic provides that. There's a kind of mystical quality to the landscape. This realm of ice and sky is not just a title to me. I mean, it's really what you see there. And so, yeah, I was just really drawn to the place itself and the people who try

to either carve out a life there or go to places that have never been reached before. Yeah. And in the early 1900s, you know, turn of the 20th century, I know that, you know, today we're focusing on AI and the internet and all these other sort of things, but the untamed frontier was trying to figure out what was at the top of the world, right? I mean, people really hadn't gone there. And even your research is indicating that what we think of as Arctic history isn't so, right? Isn't that part of this book, Realm of Ice and Sky? Yeah, so I'm glad you brought up the historical context,

because when this book opens at the turn of the 20th century, no one has been to the North Pole yet. And there's this blank spot on the map, which is supposed to be either open polar sea or frozen ice or a continent that some of these countries are hoping is there to claim, right? And you also have this incredible confluence of technology and exploration and the changing of the guard between the tried and mostly failed dog sled period and then the advent of these new flying machines. And so when the book opens in the early 1900s, you know, the Wright brothers are testing out their airplanes at Kitty Hawk. And in France and Germany, the airship or dirigible, or blimp as we call them are being created and so you have this uh amazing confluence of can can these crafts somehow be used in polar exploration for discovery science and you know

uh pushing forward human knowledge and understanding and of course now we don't think it's that big of a deal for a jet to fly over the pole, I would imagine, or less of a deal. It's a deal if you go down, of course. But then it was a completely uncharted territory. And it was really, I guess, also the development of the internal combustion engine that led to the ability, because they had balloons up to that point but uh but they just drifted along with the air and it was it was about having power to be able to steer wasn't that the big revolutionary aspect of the exploration of the arctic right so at the opening of this book you've got uh the air balloon which has been pioneered in fr primarily. And then it comes along this American journalist named

Walter Wellman, who was really a pioneer and ahead of his time. And he had been, he was a famous journalist in the United States. He hobnobbed with Roosevelt and Andrew Carnegie and J.P. Morgan. And these were silent backers of his early expeditions, by the way. And he gets the idea of having tried and failed and broken his leg, which nearly had to be amputated in the old dog sled method, that in 1893, he actually wrote, aerial navigation will has the idea to strap a 75-horsepower engine onto an 180-foot-long hydrogen-filled dirigible, which is flammable. Uh-huh. What could possibly go wrong? Yeah, I'm just thinking Hindenburg-type thing, right? Yeah, no, this pred just thinking Hindenburg type thing, right? Yeah, no, this predates

the Hindenburg. So they did know that this was very dangerous, but no one had ever attempted it. So I really view these aeronauts, as they were called, as, you know, akin to our early astronauts, because they're hopping into aircraft that has really not been tested. And coupled with that, they're trying to fly to somewhere where man has never been. Yeah. Now, this book is broken down into three parts, right? And what are the three sections? And like, you're dealing into different aspects of, because remember, the subtitle of this is Triumph, Tragedy, and History's Greatest Arctic Rescue, which meant that, hey, they're having to pull some people out. which ones are we talking

about right so yeah the three parts provide a really great and true narrative arc so you've got walter wellman is part one and he really is the pioneer who tries this first all the while i should add that the men like robert peary and. Frederick Cook are attempting to make it to the North Pole with dog sled. And so there's a kind of race underneath this whole element. And then after Wellman's attempts, in part two, we meet the great Norwegian explorer Roald Amundsen, who I view as the goat of Arctic exploration. He was the first to the South Pole, first through the Northwest Passage, and first verifiably over the North Pole. There had been Piri and Cook both made claims, but those were being contested. And so then the third member of this triumvirate here is an Italian named Umberto Nobile. And Amundsen, we actually meet him in part two, and Amundsen has purchased

an airship that was built in Italy by the Italian military. Was that the italia the italia well yeah the first one was uh called the n1 and and amundsen made him uh renamed the ship the norga uh for norway so there was a great deal of nationalism going on here too still is really when it comes to the exploring isn't there right you bet yeah and so you've got uh amundsen and this american made named lincoln ellsworth who helps finance this journey and buys the airship and then they need the pilot so they bring on humberto nobile and so in 1926 amundsen nobile and and lincoln ellsworth make this uh remarkable journey from Svalbard. The area that really we're talking about is a place called Svalbard, which is about nearly halfway between northern Norway and the North Pole.

And it was kind of ground zero for these attempts. crew, you know, 15 or 16 others, board this Norgat and fly from Svalbard over the North Pole and all the way to Alaska, right? And there's lots of drama prior to that, too, because Amundsen had tried to fly to the North Pole in an airplane. it wasn't really clear whether airplanes or airships were going to have dominion over the skies for commercial and military purposes. At that time, you're right, there was still a bit of dueling between those technologies at that time. Yeah, they were all being tested, and there's crashes on the ice and all sorts of drama and survival. And then the third part of the book deals with.

So during Amundsen and Nobile's first flight, there's a bunch of bad blood. And in the press, there's all sorts of mudslinging and fighting about who deserves the laurels and the spoils for this remarkable expedition. So Umberto Nobile decides that he's going to do it in an airship called the Italia, built in Italy, supported by the Italian government, and with an almost entirely Italian crew for national pride. Okay, you know, there's one problem here. You know, it's like we kind of joke about uh italian cars even today right they're beautiful but not reliable was that what the way their airship was you know well no this and well so so the italians and the germans had

been uh dueling in their airship design because this is the time of uh ferdinand uh zeppelin has been building the so the the airship it Italia is state-of-the-art, the most advanced airship that can possibly, it was flying at the time, and we've got three 250-horsepower engines powering this 350-foot sleek, silver pewter, beautiful machine. So it wasn't so much the aircraft,

but it was a bit of hubris and bad luck. So when Nobile makes his attempt, he does make it to the North Pole and makes the fateful decision to turn around and attempt to fly back to Svalbard against the wind. And there's a combination of horrific weather, some potential freezing in some of the controls, as well as sleep deprivation. Nobile has been up for about 75 hours. And there's a horrific, catastrophic crash on the ice. And I won't give too much away, but it is on the cover. Yeah, but that's where, of course, they're going into the nuts and bolts of the rescue and i won't give too much away but yeah it is on the cover yeah but that yeah but that's where they uh that's where of course they're going into the nuts and bolts of the rescue and all of this you know but like i said this is but frankly people filled with hubris are

the type of people who do this anyway right it's that part of the you know the whole uh there's like an explorer's gene there has to be a gene you know in the i like to say yeah it takes a dirigible sized ego to get in a dirigible and fly towards the north pole yeah you know i would think so or else you're just uh just uh certifiable you know that would be another way when you talk about the conditions i mean we sit around here and we whine when the uh when the temperature goes down to 25 overnight you know here in uh in southern Oregon, you know, that kind of thing. And by the way, I'm speaking with Buddy Levy. He's the author of Realm of Sky, Triumph, Tragedy, and History's Greatest Arctic Rescue.

What are the conditions really like for people out there in those dirigibles back in those days, in the early airship days? Because you were saying that the exploration of the North Pole was really failing with the dog sled methodology. So what kind of conditions, even in the dirigibles, were you talking about? Well, that's a great question. It's incredibly varied. So when they take off from Svalbard, what you have are massive, you've got fjords and open water at the beginning with massive mountains that you have to fly either through the valleys or over. So that's dangerous. And then you reach the polar pack. And one of the things that readers and listeners need to remember is that, you know,

the polar ice is not some like an ice rink or really flat. It's incredibly fissured and buckled with massive pressure ridges, some of them over 100 feet high. And so it's one thing if you're flying over them and you're safely ensconced in the dirigible. But when and if you end up on the ice, you need to have provisions for up to a year. You need snowshoes, skis, tents, cooking equipment, food, and the ability to keep warm. And so, you know, all of this stuff is brought, shifting flows that are driven by the currents and wind. You're not going to be in any one place for very long. You're moving and drifting. That becomes a complication when men are ultimately stranded on the ice.

One is trying to get word to the rest of the world where they are and then two uh will the rescue operations uh be able to find them because the ice could even move from where they oh it moves it moves a great distance yeah oh wow yeah i'm here and then i'm there and then i'm there again okay gotcha, one of the things that you have concluded through your research though is that who we are told in our history books discovered the North Pole didn't really do it. You know, we're always told about Dr. Cook or Robert Perry,

right? And according to your research, you don't believe that's so. Why is that? No, no, I think that Roald Amundsen is the, and you know, you have to give credit to Humberto Nobile, too, and Lincoln Ellsworth because they were with him. But the credit always goes to the leader of the expedition, and that was Roald Robinson. So Peary made his claims and Cook made their claims, but they became contested in a many decades-long argument about whether they made it or not.

And their records were rather spotty. And it took until even the New York Times in the late 80s made a retraction from a story they'd written from the early 1900s saying that, you know, Robert Perry really didn't make it to the North Pole. It looks clear. And so Roald Amundsen now, I call him the goat of Arctic in itself, because there's heroism in this book, too, at a very high degree. What do you hope we take from this, Buddy? I suppose it's that we need to keep, you know, pushing forward toward unknown boundaries is always worthwhile. I mean, we can look at what's happening now with our attempts to reach Mars and space. I mean, there's always a frontier out there, and it ends up pushing science, technology, and the development of craft forward. And there's a trickle-down effect to the kind of craft that we end up flying around in for commercial purposes that usually is the result of these test prototypes, whether that's through the military or private sector. And one thing I'll end on is

that there's a postscript to this book, which I found just amazing, which is that the airship is having a renaissance. And if you start looking up in the air over the next couple of years, you're going to see the most developed airships, like 400 feet long, helium inflated, battery powered airships that are going to be used in humanitarian efforts, relief, doctors without borders, and they're here, and they're here to stay. Why are the airships having a renaissance? That kind of surprises me. Why do you think? Well, they have an incredibly low carbon footprint. They have an incredible payload capacity, and they're able to hover, whereas airplanes,

you know, they have to fly at a certain speed to have their lift. So you've got this technology that was killed by the Hindenburg, essentially, that ended it for many, many years, even though those airships had been flying across the Atlantic over and over and over again for over a million miles total. And now they're back. Did not know that. I'm going to be looking in the skies for it, buddy. Final question. You had mentioned Greenland early on.

What do you think about President Trump talking or in talks about wanting to annex them? You think it'd be a good deal? Well, having been to Greenland and met many of the Greenlanders there and the Danes who have been in control for many years, you know, I understand the appeal. It's an incredible, incredible place. And it has just about everything. I can't wait to go back and i and i

have a lot of um strong feelings about greenland because it was what gave um what birthed my my arctic passion so i'll just leave it at that all right buddy buddy levy award-winning author of labyrinth of ice his latest is realm of ice and Sky, Triumph, Tragedy, and History's Greatest Arctic Rescue. And like you had mentioned, really big craft that are piloted by people with really big egos, right? Absolutely. All right. And you have to be able to do something like that to think that, yeah, I can do this. I've got this.

Hold my beer. Right? You know, that kind of thing. Seems like a good idea at the time. Exactly. Buddy, great job. And thanks so much for joining the show and getting a chance to meet you. It's 834 at KMED and 99.3 KBXG.

At Pressure Point Roofing, we're dedicated to delivering top quality 770 KMED. Deplorable Patrick, how are you this morning on Pebble in Your Shoe Tuesday? What's on your mind? I'm a little chilly, but I just want to compliment you. You are one excellent bookseller. I had that book bought before he was even off the program. Oh, you did? Oh, Buddy Levy's book, The Realm of Ice and Sky, huh?

Yes, it's a very interesting subject, and I'm sure it'll be covered even better than the documentaries I've watched already on that subject. I always find it fascinating, the people who get behind these kind of expeditions. And it's true, the amount of—well, you have to have that ego, that drive, that, you know, there's something better and I'm going to find it. And frankly, that speaks to a lot of what made America great, too, over the years. Those early journeys were very difficult. There was one section there where Amundsen and his crew, when they were going after the South Pole, they were climbing for four days at one point, four days of just climbing.

Wow. On that Ross Ice Shelf, I guess. for four days at one point, four days of just climbing on that ice, on that Ross ice shelf, I guess. But I'm trying to move along a little bit. I want to establish the, you know, you were talking about the Baseball Hall of Fame, and it got me thinking, we need to have a Bill Meyer talk show Hall of Fame, and I'm going to see if I can try to get in it someday. Hey, a Hall of Fame, in other words, a Listener Hall of Fame or Caller

Hall of Fame, is that what you're wanting? I meant to say Caller Hall of Fame. You know, I'll tell you what, let's make it right now. You are the inaugural member of the Bill Meyer Caller Hall of Fame, okay? Well, I was going to tell you, I was searching my mind for anything that inaugural member of the Bill Meyer caller hall of fame. Okay. Well, I was going to tell you the, uh, I was searching my mind for anything that could make me famous beyond being a famous caller on the show, uh, and having to do with baseball. I was a classmate down in, uh, Southern California and Riverside, the classmate of Bobby bonds. Do you remember him?

Oh yeah. Ball player, right? He was, he, Yeah, he was great. He was really great, and I think the only thing that limited him was he was a bit of a goof-off. He was always a cut-up in class and somewhat of a disruptive and a friendly, jokey way. And I remember seeing him, this is my only claim to fame,

seeing him coming to school in a brand new 64 Chevy Impala because he just signed with the Giants in high school. He signed with the Giants in high school and a 1964 Impala, beautiful car too, on top of that. Lovely car. And other than that, what can I be famous for? I used to live in Altadena on East New York Drive. You always do research on the fly there on your, I don't know if it's easy enough to do that now on your computer, but I don't do Google Earth. I don't know how to do it, but I used to live at 1056 East New York Drive. And what I heard was they were evacuating everything from

New York Drive North. So I was right on the other side of the street. How do I find out if that drive and what i heard was they were evacuating everything from new york drive north so i was right on the other side of the street how do i find out if that house burned i'll tell you what i'll take a look when i get off the air how about that i'll call you all right that's great all right bill all right thank you there he is the inaugural member of the uh bill meyer caller hall of fame deplorable patrick let me go to the next line hi good morning who's this this is jack bill of the Bill Maher Caller Hall of Fame. Deplorable Patrick. Let me go to the next line. Hi, good morning. Who's this?

This is Jack, Bill. Hi, Jack. How you doing? Good. Hey, I just have a question. If anybody knows why Trump had changed the name from the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America. Well, he had said that it's really more of ours. It's on more of our land. And I think there's a bit of a nationalistic bent to that, too. What do you think?

OK, think about this. When Biden left office, he wanted to drill baby or he wanted to not drill in the Gulf of Mexico. So Trump is so smart that he said, we'll change the name of the Gulf of America. And that way we can drill in the Gulf of America and not have to worry about Mexico because that's already in the paperwork and the legal part of what Biden did. You know something, Jack? I'm going to give you a real American salute. Could it have been that simple that, okay, we're not going to drill in the Gulf of Mexico? Great. We're going to rename it.

We're not drilling in the Gulf of Mexico any longer. What a great, that's a great call. You're number two. Well, thank you. Okay, you're number two. So Jack is the second inaugural call of the Caller Hall of Fame. Hi, good morning. Who's this?

Hello? Bill, it's your friend Brad. Hey, Brad.. Who's this? Hello? Bill, it's your friend Brad. Hey, Brad. What are you thinking? Hey, I'm thinking we have the developer-in-chief showing how you get things done. You think so, huh? I think so. This is a guy that fought every planning code in the city of New York and built a real estate empire.

This guy knows how to fight with money and get things done. That's why we're going to be so successful with the rebuild down in Los Angeles. Now, the other thing I was going to ask you, though, do you think he's going to go to work against or go to war against Oregon and the West Coast states overall? I think he is, and I'll tell you why. If you listen to the inaugural addresses that he gave and i listen to all of them there that he mentioned the city of portland at least a half a dozen times that i heard portland is on his radar oregon is on his radar and oregon

is the political laboratory for the left that's what you've talked about it being for years the petri dish where all the bad marxist ideas go to then spread and infect the rest of the country oregon oregon is the political laboratory for the progressive left and has been for years all right appreciate the call hope you're right about that not about the political laboratory bar but about the war hi good morning who's this welcome well good morning this is jerry hi jerry yeah i was uh listening to your show Saturday about the vaccines, and I wanted to call him in, but of course I knew I couldn't. Oh, okay. Yeah, that was a replay of an interview that I had last week, And I forget the name. Jeffrey.

I forget the name of Dr. Jeffrey. I've got it up here on KMED.com. But, yeah, what did you want to say about that? Oh, just the point I wanted to make was my neurologist told me to never get another vaccine. Because I've got Parkinson's. Oh, really? Your neurologist told you not to, huh? Yeah.

So I'm not going to. Yeah. But that was just one, so I'm not going to. Yeah. But that was just one little thing I thought. All right. Hey, appreciate you letting me know about that. Appreciate the call. 843 at KMED. Just look at it. Yeah, it looks great in the moonlight. StarRegistry.com or call 800-282-3333.

SouthernOrgansBetWizardDrilling.com. This is Randall with Advanced Air, and I'm on KMED. Some emails of the day. Emails of the day are sponsored by Dr. Steve Nelson at Central Point Family Dentistry. CentralPointFamilyDentistry.com While you weigh crowns? Yep, that could happen. I'm going to go get my teeth deep cleaned today. I'll tell you how that works tomorrow, all right?

CentralPointFamilyDentistry.com Terry in Wairika writes me this morning, hey Bill, after years of attempting, I was talking about this earlier because someone said, well, are voters that vote for these stupid policies, are they just stupid? And I said, well, you have to wonder, is it stupid, misguided, whatever? And Terry says, Bill, after years of attempting to talk to liberals or progressives, i have decided that there's one major difference between a conservative and a liberal liberals vote for the person the person and conservatives vote for policy i have friends and relatives i felt i could talk to without getting angry and they were willing to discuss their views but when i asked couldn't even give me one policy that influenced their vote it was all about the like or the dislike of the individuals involved.

I could list numerous policies that Trump put his policies right in front of you. Clinton, Biden, and Harris made a point of talking about feelings and hate with a lot of hypocrisy thrown in. And the vote comes down to them, feelings, us, policies. Yeah, I guess it really is uh the left side of the brain for uh more conservative sides and the right side the feeling side of the brain for the liberals i guess not terry appreciate the email we'll talk about more of those tomorrow on wheels up wednesday my email bill at bill myers show.com and we'll catch you then rule number one if you're looking

to sell a home choose a local real estate agent hey it's lars and why it starts with an