Bill Meyer Show Podcast - Sponsored by Clouser Drilling www.ClouserDrilling.com - 02-12-25_WEDNESDAY_7AM

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

Open phones start the hour, retired land use Consultant Bob Hart talks more on the Wildfire Risk Map issue.

The Bill Myers Show podcast is sponsored by Clouser Drilling. They've been leading the way in Southern Oregon well drilling for over 50 years. Find out more about them at clouserdrilling.com. Open phone time here. Let me talk with Ron. Hello, Ron. You wanted to talk about the collapse. We had a school roof, North Medford High, collapse completely yesterday. It was looking a little sketchy here ever since about Friday or so. What are you thinking? Well, I'm thinking that we don't need to go through a great big bidding war to get some kind of a special building with a flat roof to create the same problem. General Steel and some of the other manufacturers are pre-engineered, prefabricated parts and pieces that get wielded into place and bolted down have been around for many, many years, and they're very

inexpensive compared to what you would pay for a standard stick structure kind of a deal. So I don't know why we can't go through that kind of a thing, because most of these buildings can be designed with roof slopes sufficient that anything that's stuck on there can eventually be either pulled off by mechanical means or maybe by heating elements that are in the roof for that kind of issue. Yeah. Well, I don't know if there are certain standards for a school gymnasium. There may be building codes for such a structure. I don't really know. I don't claim to know this. Don't you find it interesting, though, that there didn't appear to be any effort to remove snow before it got to a crisis?

It gets to be a problem because you've got to have people and things up there that add more weight to the already stressed situation. The whole thing is it was one of two things, either shoddily designed and installed, and our materials were not as good as they could, but there should be no flat roofs of any kind where you have long spans, where people and a lot of money is spent, in my belief. In your belief? Okay, that's an interesting take on it. Even if it's of a minor pitch, a minor pitch of something, something that's not too incredibly steep, but at least snow could naturally slide off, right? Yeah, one last thing. Years and years, maybe 30 years ago, my dad retired up here, and he bought a 30 by 60 steel building, and it was put up in about a week. And it's still standing, and it's still everything that nature can throw at it in all this time. So they're well-engineered.

They meet the code for the local states and the local area, and it's pretty bulletproof. Yeah, we'll see. I'll be curious what type of specs will be or requests for proposal will come out of the Medford School Board or the school district for this replacement of North Medford. We go to the next line. Hi, good morning. Who's this? Hello, good morning. Hey, Bill, Michael Shaw. Oh, hi, Mike. How you doing? Welcome. Quick question, and I'm not familiar with it, but we need to look at what the construction of that building was at the school. Having grown up in Minnesota with tons of snow coming down every year, year in, year out, I don't ever recall a school having a roof collapse along those lines. So the question has to be, when was it built? How was it built? And why was it not able to handle, in what my eyes, is actually a minimal amount of snow, even though it's wet?

It's not like it was four or six feet coming down. It was inches. But it was extremely wet, heavy snow. I want to be fair about that. That is something we noticed last week, but that would have meant all the more reason why, knowing when you have a flat-roofed structure, get the snow off of that or at least reduce it somehow. Right. I mean, if these are steel girders in there, did the steel crack? Were they wood beams? Yeah, it appears to be wood beams. Wood beams splintering and cracking that are going across, pretty long wood beams from the looks of it.

Right, okay. But even so, during a retrofit like they did, why not look at the whole building, not just the walls? I would imagine part of it, well, thefit was strictly for uh seismic upgrading you know to make sure that the uh that the walls wouldn't explode out in the event of an earthquake and apparently you know they would have been successful for that but it didn't have anything to do with the structural integrity of the roof itself the roof system yeah i don't know enough about that to to speak knowledgeably on it i could just ask maybe if there are people in the construction world who understand, you know,

the roofing aspect and maybe the code aspect of it, maybe they could bring a little insight. I know that Mr. Havonair over at the school district doesn't want people speculating, but I don't know. How could they not expect us to speculate, Michael? Right. I mean, how can you.

We have to question, and I don't know when that building was put up. Is it the 70s? Was it the 60s, the 80s, whatever? But we need to question what were the original specs and why does this happen? Not looking at fixing blame yeah but look at how do we make sure that this construction technique that was used is not in play at other schools or other buildings around the area and if they are why did they not collapse or why were they not upgraded or have they been upgraded? We don't know. Yeah. But we're going to speculate a lot.

But I just find it interesting that a large structure like that, if it was wood beams, yeah, okay, they do have a tendency to wear out over time, maybe. But I just don't understand how it could cannot have been looked at prior to the incident happening all right appreciate the call there michael here's bill meyer whales up wednesday continuing with your call 770-5633 like the man said uh by the way another call to keep in mind 261-544-261-5444 that's1-5444. That's the number for Sky Park Insurance. A lot of people are asking me about that because they got their insurance renewals for their home and auto, and they're getting hosed, and they're trying to de-hose themselves from the situation, from the insurance world. Steve will help you out on that.

His number, 261-5444. They're an independent insurance agent and good service, good people. And we're going to save a lot of money here for Southern Oregonians. And by the way, Lynn Barton is there at 4990958. And she'll help you with Medicare and the Advantage programs and various other things. A lot of complexity in the federal systems.

Yeah, you can't help that. But skyparkins.com okay skypark at skypark we make insurance easy and speaking of insurance let me go to crazy gene gene you had a you want to pose a question well maybe now are you crazy today or not so crazy i forget i haven't checked oh i'm pretty sure i'm still crazy i work on it every day oh good for you good for you i'm glad that you have a purpose all All right. That's good. Oh, okay. But I just got to thinking this morning, what's going to happen if the money dies or Medicare

dies and all these people on all these drugs which need them cannot get them no more? I mean, is it going to be like a mad max scenario here when everybody goes cold turkey well you know it's interesting that um that you bring this up now what you're talking about is probably one of the worst case scenarios okay you have a economic collapse of some sort war pestilence whatever right this is what you're you're talking right that kind of thing yeah all right anything and and how that would play out is um well i could almost go to in fact i'm going to talk to this guy uh this professor also an author uh bill forsten next hour did you ever read the book one second after yes i have you did okay so you know what i'm

talking to you remember what happened that was with an emp with an emp that ended up taking out the entire national united states grid with rare exception you know an airburst nuclear device of some sort and and bill wrote it because he's trying to get the uh the government to say hey listen grids need to be harmed you need to be hardened because this is civilization. And you remember they talked about the massive die-off in the population over the first 30 days after the EMP. Yeah, millions. Yeah, in which people without electricity could not keep insulin cold. So diabetics ended up having a really, really tough time.

Schizophrenics and mentally ill people started really going nuts and having problems. I thought that was a pretty realistic way of looking at what would happen in that kind of – and let's pray to God we never have to go through something like that. But, yeah, what we have in American society right now is very – it's a very complex web of systems and infrastructure that has to keep working. Not just the money, but then the power and then the resources and then the transportation and then the fuel. I mean, gosh, it's – in other words, it would be probably pretty rough right yeah yeah it would be a no a scenario that you're not going to live through yeah many times many times that would be the case so i guess uh pray to be as healthy as possible and you're not going to be in those kind of situations you're not going to be caring about your fat ozempic shots, okay? Just saying. Just saying.

Oh, okay. I remember in one second after how they talked about after a month or two, it was fascinating how fit and skinny people started getting after a while in the real world when you're not having McDonald's delivered to you on DoorDash. Yeah, that'll maybe do us some good to have that happen, but I don't know. I wouldn't bring that on for anybody, in my opinion. But thanks for the call, CJ. Now, is it G or J?

Gene or? It must be G, right? CG. Yeah, okay. All right, CG. We'll call you later, okay? Hey, Dave, how is it for you out in the Iron Gate? You freezing your butt off this morning still yeah it's eight degrees uh i've got my brother bought me a mr heater

but it wasn't quite enough to heat my trailer i don't know if there's a big enough mr heater when it's four degrees or whatever it is eight degrees eight degrees uh i but i got my burners on my stove uh operating now that seems to help a little bit more. But it's cold. And, you know, all this global warming, you know, is hubris because there's no global warming here. Wouldn't that be interesting if – now, I know what we're looking at is just a – has just been a weather front, a particular weather front pattern. But you look at the weather patterns of the Earth and the climate history, the warmer periods were actually much better times, much better times for humanity overall and i know i know you don't like heat but uh uh there's a way always a way to cool

down by jumping in a creek or getting in water but uh you know you don't dare get in this water now you'd be dead in no time yeah cold is the uh is the real killer of humanity and you look at the history and you have the so can people and the kids in ashland tell and that's and the adults that are supposed to know better that are uh talking about well we don't want natural gas what it re when you have cold snaps like this though this is when natural gas and those kind of fuels end up uh truly showing their metal and their worth because, you know, without natural gas. I would be warm right now without propane. That's right.

Sure. And they want to shove everything on the grid, which is filled with intermittent and chaotic power, unfortunately. And I'm not on the grid. Okay. Well, good for you, right? Thanks for the call there, Dave. It's 730. All right.

We're going to be shifting gears here in a couple of minutes and going back into the wildfire map issue. And Bob Hart's going to join me. We're going to talk about the changes that State Senator Golden has been discussing openly about what to do about that. And I wanted to get Bob's take on it, too, and maybe take your calls if you had a question for him. Speaking of the natural gas and the pipelines and such, I'm going to be talking to Glenn R. Shambo on Tuesday's show when I'm back from my little mini vacation. I'm going to be taking Friday off and Monday off. And Chris DeGaulle, by the way, is doing a great job. He's replaced Hugh Hewitt on the 3 to 5 a.m. slot, but we're going to have

him fill in on the 6 to 9. Great talk show host. I think he does a wonderful job. He'll be filling in for me on Friday and for Monday, and then I'll be back on Tuesday. But we're going to talk with Glenn a little bit later on because he is on the board of a pipeline trust. And we're talking about the pipelines that run in here through southern Oregon, including natural gas and others. And there is a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that is really important. We're talking like important stuff, important like a heart attack, those sort of things.

And he's going to explain more on that on Tuesday's show. I just want to make sure you knew it. I mean, this is not going to be the farm talk that we normally do with the agricultural position that he is in. I think, yeah, he's still the elected farm services rep here for Southern Oregon. But pipeline, energy, it's all big, it's all important, and the Trump administration is digging into it. K4VN 016551 MSRP 2414559

One smile at a time. This is Randall with Advanced Air, and I'm on KMED. Glad to have Bob Hart of Bob Hart Consulting back on the program. He has forgotten more about land use planning than I'll ever know, but we like to pick his brain every now and then as we tease our way through the wildfire mapping landmines. Welcome back here, Bob. Good to have you on. Welcome.

Good morning, Bill. How are you doing? I'm doing okay. Yourself? Imagine your phone never stops ringing here over the last few weeks, huh? No, it doesn't. Yeah. What is the take overall on, I was going to say President Golden.

I'm sorry. I don't even want to imagine that. Let me go. State Senator Golden. I had Trump on my mind even as we're going into say President Golden. I'm sorry. I don't even want to imagine that. Let me go. State Senator Golden. I had Trump on my mind even as we're going into our talk here. No, State Senator Jeff Golden talking about the wildfire map is not really performing the job that they were hoping it would and looking at potential changes. I don't think that means repealing. How are you interpreting the latest on this? What do you say? To me, it's just taking us down another blind alley.

You do. I think so. I don't see it as helping because I haven't seen any specific proposal. I've read a couple of newspaper articles that says he wants to, he says the map isn't working, and so we need to back off and not show tax slots. We need to show it in a more generalized landscape system. Would that actually help the concerns of property owners in your view? To me, what that does when you take it away from the tax lot, you remove all opportunities for property owners to appeal. Oh, because you're talking about a broad swath. This entire swath is considered very high risk and so nothing you can do about it, right? Yeah. How do you appeal Merlin or any of the communities around or, you know, I live out in the Evans Valley.

How do I appeal Evans Valley? Yeah, we've got fire concerns out here, but what they're doing, I haven't seen anything that would remove the mandates, the defensive space requirements. What do you do with this map that has been created? Because the statements that I've seen is that, well, I believe in the science behind the map. It just doesn't work on a tax lot basis. Well, that's what the statute says. It's got to come down to the tax lot basis. So how much of the thing do you repeal? Because I have heard him say on multiple occasions, I will not repeal 762. All right. So I'm going to go

down the, even though it's only Wednesday, I'm going to go down the conspiracy theory Thursday route. Is there a possibility that to say, all right, we're going to, I'm going to do a fix-it bill for 762. Senator Golden does this and gets it through the democratically controlled legislature. But we're going to turn it into landscape, the overall landscape rating map. Could this be a poison pill to eliminate any success of an appeal? What do you think? Yes, that's exactly what I see. Because when 762 first came out in 2021, we had the cue and cry of the people saying, you know, this isn't right.

And they withdrew the map. And everybody, you know, from Senator Golden all the way through the whole system, they said, well, the rollout wasn't very good and we didn't really communicate properly with the public. So we need to make course corrections. So, okay, I fully agree. We needed course corrections, and we came up with Senate Bill 80 in the 2023 legislative session. The big change in Senate Bill 80 was it went from a risk map to a hazard map, and we combined the things from five categories to three. Okay. What is the difference between a risk map and a hazard map? Could you explain that to folks?

It's a difference without a distinction. Oh. You know, they say, well, it's like a flood map. This shows where flooding would go, and so you're in a hazard area. Well, all of Oregon is subject to wildfire. Look at Phoenix and Callet. Which, oddly enough, are only in the moderate zone. Yeah, that's in the moderate zone. But yet they burn to the ground in many places, huh? Nothing in the bill would have affected them at all. They are not required

to do defensive space. They're not required to do any of the new modifications to structures. Nothing in this bill would have impacted the fire in Phoenix and Talent. So what is this all about? Bob, is the legislature just trying to fix something that is unfixable when it comes right down to it? Because you look at even what happened in Alameda. It's a 60-mile-an-hour wind event. It's kind of an anomaly.

It doesn't happen all the time. I almost don't know if there's anything that could have been done to have stopped a lot of that at that point. No matter how defensible your space was, if a firestorm's there and blowing through with a 60-mile-an-hour wind, it's going to blow through the area, and there's no amount of hardening. Am I wrong or right? You're right there. To me, the big question that has not been answered or even approached is there's a difference between the fires that most people start in their backyard, their burn barrel gets away from them, or you've got a chain dragging and it sparks and you wind up with a quarter acre, half acre, five acre, 10 acre, you know, 20 acre fire. Those get put out with no real problem and doing your

home hardening would probably help protect your house in those smaller fires. But the whole thing of a wildfire, the ones that escape off the federal lands that have a head of steam, you know, headed your way, there's nothing you're going to be able to do to stop that. Look at California. Unless you're going to just, you know, build inside water. Or you bury everything underground. I don't know. What do you think the real purpose of 762 is, in your opinion, as a land use planner, if you don't mind? Because, you know, I don't see anything about it that stops or fights wildfire in any particular way. It just seems to be some sort of control grid. But I don't want to speculate too much on this because I'm not that knowledgeable. To me, looking at what has gone on with 762, all we have to do is look at the latest legislative session. Start with Senate Bill 79 that's proposed.

It says if you're in a wildfire area, high risk or high hazard. You can't build a house. Now, Senator Golden says that that has been stripped out of the bill, amended out of that bill. That's what he claims. It hasn't come up for a hearing that I'm aware of. You know, he may talk about it, but then you look at Senate Bill 73. Senate Bill 73 says if you have a resource zone that is not being used for resource, it's vacant, you cannot change the zone to something other than resource use. So if you've got, especially in Josephine County, where we have a lot of serpentine soils.

What is serpentine soil, Bob? I don't understand that. Serpentine soil is a type of soil that has high chemical, magnesium, calcium components, and it does not grow crops or trees very good at all. Oh, okay, so it's a poor quality soil, in other words. Okay. It's a poor quality soil that nobody could, in a commercial methodology, try and raise a crop, whether it be trees or wheat or anything else. If you start up Mount Sexton, look over to the right and see how sparse it is,

that's not caused by a fire. That's the serpentine soil influence there. All right. So serpentine soil in this particular bill, you were talking about 73, Senate Bill 73, I recall, right? Yeah. It doesn't call it out. It just says if it's not used for resource use, you can't change the zone. You go, if it's zone for forest reuse, you have serpentine soils on it, why can't you change it to a different zone that would allow some type of beneficial use for the property? It does appear, though, that the goal then is to keep things encased in amber no matter what reality is on the ground. Is that what I'm hearing?

Correct. Right. All right. In other words, you outside of the city are not going to build. Even though that sounds like conspiracy theory, that appears to be still the goal of much of the state legislature right now. Right. You go to the next one, Senate Bill 78,

which is if you're going to replace a structure out in a resource zone, you can only increase the size by a maximum of 10 percent, or if you've got a small house, the most you can build it is 2,500 square feet. What does the square footage of a structure have to do with anything? Well, I can tell you what they think. They, as in the gang greens of the state legislature, is they don't want you living there. They want you living in the city. Right. Now, much as people hate to admit it, yeah, I moved from California 48 years ago. I won't let anybody know your secret, okay? Yeah, don't let anybody know. I got tired of listening to my neighbor brush their teeth in the morning.

It was not fun. And when they got into an argument, I didn't want to be a party to it. So when I moved to Oregon, I wanted to live outside of the city. I wanted some acreage, have a horse for the kids. My wife loves to garden. So that's the kind of things we like to do. And you can't do that in the city. Bob, in essence. You can build an extra house because that's going to solve the housing crisis by concentrating development inside the cities and urban growth boundaries.

Yeah. So we just get more crowded in the cities. And I'm just kind of curious, is it about stopping development in the rural lands or are there ways that – and I'm sorry to inject a class question here, I can't help but wonder if what this really is about is the state legislature doesn't want poor people out on the landscape or people of modest means, and that it would be something that rural life would be something that only the truly elite would be able to work the minefield of restrictions that they're proposing. Do you have any thoughts on that? It's speculation again, but I wonder. I think it's bigger than that. You do?

What they want to do is stop what they call McMansions. They don't like people to go outside the cities that have money and work the system and build a 12,000-square-foot mansion system out in the rural area. Why would they care? Because the reason is it affects farmland. It's taking areas out of production, or if you get too many of these McMansions out there, then somebody is going to complain about the smell of the pigs or the cow poop, whatever. Well, gosh, you know, if everything about state land use control, Bob, Bob Hart, by the way, I'll get to your calls here with Bob in just a second. Everything about state land use control was supposedly about preserving farmland. Right.

Then why does Central Point exist in the way it does? Because they practically built everything on top of some of the best farmland in the area. How did that happen if supposedly Senate Bill 100 was supposed to be so wonderful at preserving farmland? There's a lot of horse trading went on in the late 70s and early 80s when this whole thing was done. What they looked at is mainly the Willamette Valley. And down here, it was kind of the redheaded stepchild. We're not going to worry about that as long as we can protect Willamette Valley from all these people moving in. Remember the old adage back in the day of come visit Oregon, but don't move here. Well, California moved here anyway.

Yeah. All right. Bob Hart with me this morning, land use planner, retired land use planner, I should say, and consultant, rather. Recovering land use planner. Recovering, yeah, yeah. His eyes glaze over, I'm sure. 770-5633. Bob, let's take a few calls here. So you're thinking that the proposals from Senator Golden aren't worth much at the moment. But anyway, hi, caller. You're with Bob. Who's this? this is this is ed bill ed i'm glad you're here go ahead you're with bob well i was listening to the conversation and something occurred to me

but one of the statements that was made that phoenix and talent are in a moderate uh or low risk type thing and that i i would logically take it to it to another statement of looking at the reality. That's because they burnt, and they're now a fire-adapted community. And when you read this legislation, when you read the intent, when you read the terms landscape scale, and then you look at everything, it's about increasing the fire load everywhere. Ed, I lost you for some reason. Ed, call me back, okay? We'll try to get you on it.

I think I kind of know where he was going. Do you know where Ed was going on that one? Bob, I lost him for some reason. But there's some people that think this whole idea is to drive everybody into the cities by saying it's been adapted to fire. So if it's burnt down, it's not a risk anymore. So it's part of that whole prescribed burn thing and let it get so out of control that it burns everything down. And that way we don't have to worry about it anymore. Yeah, Ed was telling me. I don't know that I fully followed that whole logical pattern, but that's just different ideas on what this whole program is about.

Yeah, Ed was telling me about the people behind the fire map are essentially, they are just big. I mean, this is like their religion of burning the landscape. Did you look into that by chance? Yeah, I looked at the people that helped create the map, you know, from OSU. They've talked to other companies that their business is creating risk maps, and they seem to be of the green persuasion that... In other words, they're part of the predetermined outcome. They're part of a predetermined outcome. This is part of that consensus process. See, that's dangerous. That needs to be continued

to be called out, all right? Let me go to another line here. You're with Bob Hart. Good morning, caller. Who's this? Welcome. This is Ryan from Eagle Point. Hi, Ryan. Hi. I just had a question. So we had a... I live outside of Eagle Point. I've got 60 acres. We built 10 years ago and

we had to have a sign off from the fire marshal for our fire break. Like I'd have a hundred feet and I've added to that. Are they trying to add more of a fire break? Like I've probably two acres cleared around my house. No, the way the legislation is written is you've done your fire break, you got the sign-off from the local fire district, and then you're done. Now what they want to do is say, well, all that vegetation grows back, so we're going to come visit you periodically and make sure you keep everything trimmed. So I was told from ODF, because I called ODF because they were a part of this fire map, that nobody would be coming to my property. I asked that question specifically. I said, will somebody be coming to my property? He said no. Well, the legislation says that if you don't keep a fire defensive to all space, they can start a fine violation system and put a lien against your property. So it would sound then, Bob, like with you saying that in the legislature, that there must be some kind of a monitoring system that is in the works.

Or it would have to be, right? It's either that or if your neighbor turns you in saying, well, they're not maintaining it, come give them a ticket. We don't know that yet. I wish they would come up to my house because I would walk them out to the BLM and show them the real problem. Yeah, I know. I've got a BLM square behind me, and it's not been touched, and I've been here 50 years. They're not doing anything to manage that. All right. Ryan, thanks for the call there. Yeah, they're not coming out to your property, at least not right now. Hi, good morning. Who's this? Welcome. You're with Bob Hart.

Hi, this is Diana. Hi, Diana. I wanted to kind of spread the word when I do my presentation, so I did a little research. And I appreciate all the people that are kind of getting this on a handle on the local level. But if you want to know the absolute facts about why they want to get people off the land, in Portland, Oregon, they announced that, in fact, the Forest Service announced that they released a draft of the environmental impact statement for the Northwest Forest Plan. And it was an amendment ensuring, quote, ensuring the climate smart amendment to the Northwest Forest Plan.

And it would reflect the best available science, you know, all that. Which, of course, means gangrene science. Yeah. And ideology. Yeah. If you want to know if climate smart agriculture and forestry, that comes right out of the United Nations Climate Change Conference that happened. Secretary of Agriculture, which is the department for this U.S. Forest Service, Tom Vilsack was there as a speaker for it to get climate-smart agriculture

and forestry amendments attached to that Northwest Plan. So that tells me they definitely wanted to get the people off the land and into the cities. It's all part of smart growth. Also, the Growing Smart Legislative Guidebook was passed out to every legislative house in the United States back in the millennium, 2002. The American Planning Association put out a 1,400-page guidebook in order to tell states how to do their statutes, how to organize their agencies, even down to how to designate neighborhood areas. Neighborhood unit planning is what it was called then. So all of it has been coming down the road now, like Mr. Hart says, for many decades.

But to put the nail on the coffin, it started with the APA in 2002. All right. Diana, thank you so much for that call. I'm just out of time at this point. Bob, you know, this has been a big intrusion building for a long, long time. And really, I think we're just looking at end game actions here. And from what I'm hearing from you, what should our reaction be to this? I would say, certainly, if you're a rural landowner, you've got to be appealing, at least just getting the notice that you plan to appeal. But what would you say? Yeah, there's a lot of confusion about the appeals process. Some people say, well, it's just a simple check the box. When you look at the statute, it's more than that. So yes, appeals need to be filed. Senator Golden is saying that, you know,

that it appears to be only just a check the box. You don't need to have a lawyer and all the rest of it. Would you agree with his assertion on that? It's not that simplistic. It isn't? No. When you start actually crawling through what it says, yes, there's this one-page form that was in the packet that was sent out. It says, to appeal a property's hazard classification, file this in accordance with OAR 629-044-1041, you know, which is, you know, normal bureaucraties. They don't tell you in plain English what to do. They always refer you to something else. The written request, when I go to 629-044-1041, it says, the written hearing request must specifically state the issues to be addressed, the criteria of the hazard map being contested, and the relief sought. So when Senator Golden says, don't just, you know, just do the check, you don't need to do a whole lot more to it, that's not right then?

Right. And then you go to item six there, it says, failure to raise an issue as provided in this rule shall constitute a waiver of the opportunity to raise the issue in a contested hearing. So you've got to say what you're complaining about, and if you don't raise it, then you waive your right to be able to complain about it. Wow. Right. So once again, if you're silent now or if you just do the check, I would like an appeal, but you're not more specific about it and getting into the nitty-gritty of it before, what is it, March 10th, I think is the deadline on that? March 10th is the last day to file your notice to appeal. And the thing, when you look at the form, it says, here is the appeal form. It doesn't say

notice of intent to appeal. It's not just a, here, save my place in line. This is your appeal form. And then you have a hearing. Once they review what you've submitted, then they can contact you, try and flesh out the issues in a little bit more detail for them to be able to respond. But if you don't put things down in the initial part, it could be a real problem. All right. Bob, I appreciate this. Are you going to be part of any workshops, anything else going on here in the next few days? Yeah, we have the same kind of a hearing that we had out at the fairgrounds. We'll be doing one in Sunny Valley tomorrow night. There's one in Douglas County at their fairgrounds this Saturday. What time is the one in Sunny Valley? Where is it going to be?

Sunny Valley, it's at the church there in Sunny Valley, 400 Sunny Valley Loop, and that goes be from 6.30, and I think we've, or six, no, at six o'clock, we've got one scheduled in, out in the Illinois Valley on the 20th. There's also a Come to Salem, kind of like the old Timber Unity rally at Salem on the 25th. The bottom line takeaway here from our conversation is don't fall for the just check the box, say you want to appeal, and then send it back. You have to do the work to be able to protect your rights. And I would also add other people that have been passing out cease and desist and try to call this out on the legal aspect of it, too. I think there's a little bit more to it than we have time to go into. Yeah, there's more to it than that. All right.

There's the website undo762.org. Where is it? That will give you some more background. They've got a calendar there so you can follow what's going on is that undo or fight 762 you know it's undo 762 there's a another one fight and we're trying to uh 762 we're trying to coordinate and work those together so we can have a one-stop shop but um that's how we're getting started trying to pull this all together. All right. Very good. Yeah, I am finding fight762.com and undoSB762.com. All right.

All right, Bob. Thank you so much, Bob Hart. Thank you, Bill. Sure. We'll be talking soon. It is four after eight. This is KMED, KMED HD1, Eagle Point, Medford, KBXG, Grants Pass. This is Jeff at Quality Tree Supply.