Bill Meyer Show Podcast - Sponsored by Clouser Drilling www.ClouserDrilling.com - 03-13-26_FRIDAY_6AM

Episode Date: March 13, 2026

03-13-26_FRIDAY_6AM

This hour of the Bill Meyer Show podcast is proudly sponsored by Klauser Drilling. They've been leading the way in Southern Oregon well drilling for more than 50 years. Find out more about them at Klausor drilling.com. Now more with Bill Meyer. 11 minutes after six, join the conversation, 770KMED, my email bill at Billmyershow.com. We have the Facebook.com slash Bill Meyer Show feed up. I guess there was a internet problem that was knocking out some of the Facebook deal. and a lot of people writing me,

what about this? Well, you know, we do have a podcast. You know, you can watch it. The streaming was still working online too, but just not the Facebook anyway. But anyway, it's back. We're back. And so now you can see and watch

and however you end up getting to the show. We're really happy to have you in here. And happy to take your calls. Find your phone Friday, of course, as always. Dr. Kurt Micelli is going to join me after the bottom of the hour from Do No Harm Medicine. and it's interesting, you know, you get those ads, you get the email ads for, and maybe online ads, maybe when you're, you know, poking around, and you'll see these ads for online pharmacies.

Well, it appears that the whole transgender deal, that there are a bunch of kids that are now getting the hormones on the sly. You know, parents don't know about this, doctors don't know about this, because, you know, there's just a whole lot of research now that's just saying this is not a great idea. And so we have kids that are self-diagnosing and going out and getting the gender-changing hormones and the drugs. And this is where the black market is going. Of course, I'm sure that you probably have the governor of Oregon that's probably investing in these companies and saying, hey, listen, the more trans kids that we have, the better. The fewer breeders we have, the better.

it's probably all about carbon and population drop. You start to wonder about that sometimes, seriously. But we're going to talk with Dr. Maselli about this because this has been a real bone of contention. They're fighting this stuff all the time. And Martin Moyer is going to join me. Martin is president of the Christian Action Network. And he wrote a piece I thought was pretty self,

or a thought-provoking, rather. And it was called AI doesn't need to hate us in order to turn on us. I'm curious to hear what he has to say about that. But I was watching, I wanted to tell you, I was watching a video the other day of an online music guy that I like. He's a music producer, a musician, and maybe you've watched him on YouTube when he's other places. Rick Beato, Rick Meado, and a great guy. And I've learned so much about, you know, classic rock and new music and things like that.

He, you know, he talks with musicians all the time. and I find it a really nice pallet cleanser from the regular political stuff, but he had a video that I had not considered the other day because, you know, we're all kind of many people, and even I, I use AI too, I think everybody uses AI to one extent or another, even in sometimes, you know, search capabilities on the various computers. But this whole idea that everybody is going to invest trillions of dollars into AI and then everyone's going to get trillions of dollars of wealth generated by this.

Rick, who is a musician guy, kind of called BS on it the other day. And he demonstrated something that I was not really aware of all that much because I haven't looked into the large language models and the actual inner workings of the machine, so to speak. But what Rick said was quite thought-provoking. What Rick said is, listen, I went and and I ended up going online and you can actually download these large language models. There are websites where you can, in essence, download the big AI brain, the brain software to your computer. And then he ended up putting an interface over it, put like, like a chatbot interface over it or something, some other software.

And he was able to demonstrate that, you know, starts asking your questions just like for everything else. And it starts, in other words, our computers, our individual computers are now strong enough and deep enough that they can run the large language models themselves on the computer itself. So we could be cruising for a bruise in. You know how people have talked about the AI bubble? And remember, there was the Chinese AI. Now, this was not a Chinese AI that Rick Biato had downloaded and put in his computer. But it was, you know, these were, you know, American large language models brought in.

And the thing is, he's running it on the machine. It's not even connected to the Internet. And this whole idea that we're going to invest trillions upon trillions upon trillions of dollars into tons of power plants so that we can have tons of data centers with very expensive, with very expensive servers and internet nodes and that this is how everyone's going to be doing the wealth building and that it's still going to be a surveilled and centrally based kind of thing. He says, no, you don't have to do that at all.

You can actually run it on your device, not connected to the internet, and then, of course, it will probably get better. And so you're not sharing your data. And what his observation was is that what he sees his AI, And I thought this was interesting. He said, what I see as AI, he said, is that it's going to be stuff that you're doing when you need it in your device rather than plugging into the hive mind. That's kind of what he was getting at. And he said, and he kind of made it an analogy to when he was a music producer back in the 1990s,

and you had to have a three quarters of a million dollar studio with big mixing boards and big rooms and lots of. of equipment and lots of people to run the equipment and it would cost two to three thousand dollars a day for a music band to come in and you had to have the engineer there and then the music company got its cut and the music instrument people got their cut of the record industry and that well that went away very few people are using the three quarters of a million dollars studio model anymore and it's down now to Pro Tools and a laptop and a laptop and musical interfaces or electronic interfaces to get music into a laptop, into a computer, and you're doing it for a few thousand dollars.

And when he demonstrated on one of his music computers that he was just running the AI model locally, no internet connected at all, it did kind of make me wonder, gee, well, are we selling ourselves a bill of goods that, you know, you have to go and get all these insanely, expensive chips, insanely expensive power plants, insanely expensive data centers everywhere, is that really the future? And so he's saying he's thinking that, you know, this whole idea that you're going to build up all of these centralized data centers may not necessarily be the way that it goes over time.

And I thought it was very thought-provoking. And he compares it once again to the old studio system, the old studio, the way you used to have to record music. And, of course, that model is just completely trashed now because just about 80. Heck, I can record music at home in my home studio with just a laptop and an interface, you know, just a few hundred bucks. And then you could get the software. And so he says he thinks that's where it may be going.

Now, I'm sure that government and controlling authorities much prefer the idea of us all plugging into hive mines because we're a lot easier to surveil at that point. Maybe it'll be a combination of both. I don't know, but I thought that was an interesting alternative way at looking at the AI. In other words, we will have the AI in our systems under our control, not essentially often in some server farm that meta or X or Anthropic or any of these other places owns. It is multing us for it. I just thought there was a very interesting way of looking at it. So maybe that's better, okay? Anyway, but I'll be talking a little bit about that with Martin Moyer and getting his take on AI too.

It's always an interesting thing. We've got to look at this because it is important. All right. Now that some of our local headlines here at a talent resident searched yesterday morning. And looking for dirty pictures. Yeah, kitty porn, that kind of thing. Child sex abuse materials. They're thinking were uploaded from a talent home.

Now, the one thing I don't know is that this was on. Taylor Street, Taylor Street home and talent, and Jackson County Sheriff's reported this. Could it be? I'm just thinking about that sex offender that was in the Talent Library. Now, no evidence about that. They're not saying anything about that. I'm not saying he is, but you couldn't help but remember that the guy in the talent library that got the library director fired because of looking at the pictures of little kids on the

talent library. Well, anyway, someone's being investigated right now. They were doing a lot of talk about that. And no surprise about this, Mount Ashland closing for the winter season, doing to low snow. I don't think you're really surprised about that. This is one that I saw. A study came out this week here.

Promises made, promises kept. I know that the University Washington Center for Human Rights Study, that was released this week. Of course, they're releasing the information trying to raise alarm, raising alarm about illegal aliens, right? But they released a study this week that immigration enforcement in Southern Oregon and in the state of Oregon and Washington soaring to historic levels. About 1,200 illegal aliens, just under 1,200 illegal aliens were arrested in the state of Oregon between October and December last year. That's just way above anything the Biden administration every day. And there were about

950 illegal aliens arrested in the state of Washington. And of course, they're raising the alarm and I'm thinking, no promises made, promises kept with President Trump. But just prepare for reports on that that are going to be, oh,

oh, it's, uh-huh. And then you know, more kids over at Oakdale Middle School cutting class today, you know, either today or some other day, going, and we support immigrants. No, immigrants. Immigrants are illegal process kids. They don't understand that.

But, of course, I don't know. I have a feeling there's a lot of illegal immigrant, illegal alien sympathizers in that particular neighborhood. There's just a lot of it. I think it's demographics, that kind of thing. K.OBI reporting that MPD officers said he had some shots fired in West Metford on Wednesday. I didn't hear about this until just this morning when I looked at that story. But apparently nobody hurt, but it looks like a drive-by. A white lowered pickup truck leaving the area.

West 8th Street, Hamilton Street, Wednesday, and vehicle matching that description stopped by officers and a nearby resident. A couple people detained, more believed to be involved. They're still investigating that. And yeah, probably gang-related. You can kind of figure. Another story that you can, well, actually two stories that you can say,

and they're Muslims. Yeah, yeah. You know the Old Dominion University, Virginia shooting and one was killed, two injured, and the gunmen dead right there, Muhammad Baylor Jala. And he was convicted of trying to provide help to ISIS in 2016 pleading guilty. And he was still on the streets, apparently. Well, he's dead now.

And you ended up having the ROTC students stepping in. They subdued and they killed him while waiting for cops to show up there. they weren't, they weren't, uh, they weren't messing around. And there was the temple, Israel synagogue attack in Michigan. Definitely,

Muslim once again, not that far from Dearbornistan. This is a problem. And yep, Gaman Randips, his truck into the West Bloomfield Township synagogue Thursday afternoon, opened fire.

And security guards made him D-R-T, dead right there. Alahu Akbar did the whole thing. And, uh, yeah. and just minor injuries inside the temple fortunately, but the dirtbag dead right there. And as sad as it is to have that attack occur, it's a good outcome when the dead right there

quotient ends up or method ends up being applied, okay? 25 minutes after six, this is the Bill Maher show. Oregon Truck and Auto Authority is celebrating its 20-year anniversary as the Rogue Valley's car truck, Jeep, and SUV accessory upfit headquarters, Specializing in spray on bed liners, vehicle undercoating, tono covers, and the largest selection of fiberglass, commercial and metal canopies in the area. Running boards, Nerf bars, bumpers, winches, and LED lighting are also on the menu,

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Sunday mornings at 8, on News Talk 1063, KMED. I'm Steve from Sky Park Insurance, and I'm on KMED. 627, Thompson Talent, Tom, you have a different take on the AI thing. I was remarking on a video I watched with Rick Biato the other day, good music director guy,

and he's thinking that this whole thing of building up the data center AI model with trillions of dollars in investment will not necessarily be the workout that they're thinking right now. What do you have on that? What's your take? Well, I'm just, I'm not a techie, so, but my suspicion is that AI, what's going on with all this different levels of generations of Wi-Fi, 4, 3, 4, 5, 6, whatever, I think what they're trying to do with all that is make this super surveillance society. Oh, I agree.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you, but that's what whole 5G and 6G is about the Internet of Things. So everything's connected in one level or another. I think the goal is to have us have the same kind. kind of society that's in China where the government can absolutely monitor everything you're doing. I think they're heading, they want to have a digital dollar so that they can totally control you economically. I really think that's what the goal is. And, you know, particularly with Iran, we're heading towards major bankruptcy and so forth. So I think that's what's kind of going on, the super surveillance society. Well, no, I will agree with you. I have no doubt that that is

what people would like to do. That is what, when I'm saying people, let me just call it, I shouldn't call them people, the lizard people that are in higher, with the little reptilian brains that are saying, hey, hey, we will be the, we will be on the top of this food chain, and we will be, we will be taxing the, the tax mules and farming their fear and, you know, all the rest of the, yeah, I get that. that is that is true that I do believe that is the goal of some of those people okay all right but what I'm saying though is that if it if you end up finding out then and if more people start figuring out that you don't need to be plugged into their hive to do it isn't that

kind of cutting the knees out from underneath a number of these nefarious types it's a question you can ask the fellow, because what you're talking about, it seems to be, is just a whole bunch of stored information, how to access. But I'm saying that you're needing to five and six G and so forth to do real-time immediate surveillance of what those nasty people are up to with their freedom and so forth. Yeah, you think we're complaining about having license plate readers around town, wait until it's the entire Internet of things. And then, well, like I was joking yesterday, with the woman from Oregon for safer technology. Remember Kelly Markatouli, who was on yesterday.

Do you really need to have your refrigerator accessing your grocery account and ordering milk when you need that? Right. Yeah, well, that's kind of the phony selling point to that AI and 5 and 6G is being introduced. You know, you'd be able to download your video games or whatever in two seconds instead of 20 seconds. I don't know. The whole thing, I smell. Yeah, yeah, you're on, your only fans porn gets to you that much quicker, you know. There you go.

Yeah. You got it covered there. I want to say one real quick thing. I agree with Lewis yesterday when he said he thought that Trump is being blackmailed. I would call it probably threatened. His family, himself, and everyone. and that's why the invasion of Iran is happening. You think it was actually a threat?

You think that what? That the Zionist in Israel in charge of a lot of that over there? Do you think that they had that kind of control over our president, really? Well, I think the murderer, Charlie Kirk. I think the Mossad took him out, and I think they, Nitton Yahoo came to, you know, Trumps and said they've had several meetings like that, I think you flat out told, hey, if you want to live, you know, we can take you out. We showed you what we can do with Charlie.

And if you want, you were going to go and take over Iran or invade Iran or not just you, but your family. How about your son? I think that's what's going on to Trump. I think he's being blackmailed or blackmail is not the right word. It's being extorted. It's being threatened. That's my guess on it. Okay, so everything is just the godfather in Washington, D.C.

I'm going to make him an offer. He can't refuse. You can't. Okay. It's an interesting theory. I don't know if it quite buy, Tom, but I appreciate you sharing it. Okay? Thanks for that. As always. Hey, we'll catch up all the rest of the news here in just a moment. And then about those online pharmacies, it may be backdoor way for kids to go out there and get the tranny hormones, all the drugs, all those transgender things, even if parents don't want them to. We'll talk about that. Dr. Kurt Maselli joins me in a couple of minutes. Saving money has never been easier.

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You know, one and four taxpaying Americans have been a victim of identity fraud. Now, with LifeLock, if your identity is stolen, they will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Last year, billions of refunds were stolen. Now, could be from your salary or overtime or a second job, it's gone. But this year, you do not need to stay a victim. save up to 40% off your first year. Use the promo code Hannity. Just go to lifelock.com today. KMED News. Here's what's going on. Jackson County sheriffs and other local law enforcement searching a residence on Taylor Street in Talent early yesterday morning. There was evidence that

child sex abuse materials were uploaded to the internet from that home. Officers interviewing possible witnesses seized a number of electronic devices. They're not saying much more about the case at this time. You don't hear this very often. A number of taxpayers asking the cash strapped Jackson County Fire District 5 to enact a temporary tax increase, and the district said, no thanks. Daily Courier reports the tax increase was on the agenda Tuesday. Several board members say they don't feel good about asking for more money until more is known about pending litigation and legal costs they can't talk about in public right now. Oregon Health Authority raising the alarm about possible measles exposure at a WinCo grocery store in Gresham, not in Southern Oregon. Want to

make that clear. But OHA is saying anyone who was in the Gresham Winco store last Saturday between two and five should get checked out by a doctor and let him know about a possible exposure to measles. A University of Washington Center for Human Rights Study released this week shows that immigration enforcement soared to historic levels in our state. Between October and December last year, just under 1,200 illegal aliens were detained in the state of Oregon, 951 arrested in Washington. Oregon's greatest increase in arrests, mostly in the Portland metro area and Marion County. And no surprise, but they're making it official at Mount Ashland closing for the winter season due to low snow. Bill Meyer, KMED News.

I'm Taylor Riggs, and this is the Fox Business Report. The economy expanded at the end of last year, but at a cooler pace than first reported the gross domestic product for the fourth quarter was revised to growth of 7 tenths of a percent. Inflation readings for January are mostly in line with forecasts. The PCE price index rose three-tenths of a percent as expected for the year the PCE rose 2.8 percent, up 3.1 percent, excluding food and energy, up slightly from the 3 percent in December, also matching the forecast. Consumer spending rose more than expected in January up four-tenths of a percent. Incomes were also up four-tenths of a percent, and durable goods orders for expensive manufactured things were flat in January.

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637. They are proud to have Dr. Kurt Besselli back on. We talk to him quite frequently from do no harm, do no harm medicine.org. Doctor, welcome back. And before we move forward, can you tell us what do no harm. harm medicine is all about, what your main mission is all about, and dig into that, then we'll talk about this latest report you put out. Absolutely, and thanks Bill for having me on again. So do no harm is an organization. We have over 50,000 members, and we're focused on the healthcare space, particularly getting identity politics out of medicine and keeping kids safe from radical gender ideology. You're focused on those two issues. Yeah, and this is a really,

really big deal. And the challenge that we face here in the state of Oregon is that as the rest of the world has been backing away from this and even over in England, they say, hey, we got to stop this. This is just, we're finding really bad things. What they've discovered is that gender dysphoria and the mental illness that could be connected with it. And that's the way it used to be considered being a mental illness. And what has been happening today, though, is that the treatment has been to, well, gender affirming care. In other words, if you have this mental illness that you are a woman, trapped in a man's body, we start cutting parts and adding parts and then saying that'll fix you. And that just hasn't been working, I guess. Would that be fair?

It certainly hasn't, and especially for children, when we look at the evidence, when we look at the data, it's just not there. In fact, the NHS from England just released additional data, and that caused them to actually say, we're going to stop any new prescriptions for cross-sex hormones in kids as a result of the additional data that keeps coming out. And when you look at these systematic reviews. It shows that there's very low certainty evidence for any degree of benefit and significant harms. And we know the impact on bones, bone mineral density that puberty blockers can have. We know the impact on fertility where unfortunately these children end up as infertile adults. We know the impact in terms of cardiovascular health, metabolic syndrome.

These are, these are come with significant risks, significant adverse effects. And it's it so important that we make sure that we're keeping kids safe from these hormones. And yet at the same time, the state of Oregon legislature is passing more laws recently that is almost doubling and tripling down. Oregon is one of these outliers. Are there any other states that are doing of anything more of what is being proven not to work everywhere else? I mean, unfortunately, when you look at states like California, Oregon, Washington, New York, We have the Attorney General there in New York trying to force a hospital to reestablish its gender clinic to give out these medicines and such. So unfortunately, in many of the quote-unquote blue states, we see this continuing to occur.

And I think it's just so important, again, that the federal government continues the pressure to look at the data and look at the literature and just the reality that we're harming kids and that there are other treatments that we can use as in psychotherapy. We can explore the source of confusion and distress that a kid may have. We can help strengthen their self-esteem. We can help them feel comfortable with biologic reality and recognize that puberty can be an uncomfortable time for kids. But how can we get through that without putting kids on a pipeline to medications and surgeries? We've really got to look at what we need to do to help the mental health of these children as opposed to putting them on this fast track for surgeries and medications.

Dr. Maselli, I wanted to raise a cautionary tone about this before we, we dig into your latest report. And the reason, is there any evidence, though, that the possibility of environmental exposure to endocrine disruptors, there's been a lot of conversation about that, that maybe even our environmental situation in this world may be driving some of this, or is all of it a mental illness? Have you looked into that at all or any conversation about that within your group? That's not something that we've been specifically focused on. We've been mostly focused on the individuals that have been impacted by this gender-affirming procedure. And frankly, this seems to be very much a social contagion in its recent phenomenon. More social than environmental is what you believe.

Well, certainly. When you look back decades ago, this was an extraordinarily rare illness when it was diagnosed as gender identity disorder, for instance. In fact, if you look at the diagnostic manual that psychiatrists use, the incidence is almost one in a hundred thousand or just extraordinarily low numbers. And that has radical. changed, certainly in the past 10 years, especially when we look at adolescent girls who have really been the drivers, so to speak, of the more recent diagnoses. Typically, this was seen in boys who wanted to be girls, as opposed to mostly what we've seen now, or these adolescent girls who want to be boys or non-in-a-old. Okay, so that's the indicator, and it's just all of a sudden

just, boom, up we go just females, or mostly females. It is for mostly. That's the primary driver in the past 10 years. And it seems to be this, again, social contagion phenomenon, certainly associated with social media and the rise of the communication and the pressures that that has. And granted, there are other factors as well. So I certainly don't want to oversimplify. But that has been a main spark in the recent 10 years when we look at this phenomenon. Okay. Dr. Maselli, I want to talk about this new report here. It's called the lack of barriers to minors ordering cross-sex hormones online. So what I'm wondering here is, is this kind of an indicator that the online pharmacy world, and normally, you know, you'll get those ads and say, you know, hey, generic Viagra online, you know, two cents a pill, you know, that kind of thing.

Is this branching out into the sex-inhibiting or sex-changing hormone world here? What's the story? I'd like to hear more. Absolutely. And we are concerned about the fact that there don't appear to be many guardrails really preventing kids from getting these cross-sex hormones online. And again, these are vulnerable kids, right? These are kids who are struggling. They're confused. We've already talked about the fact that there's other psychotherapy and interventions that we can use. But unfortunately, when they're in this state of confusion and difficulty, they may very well go online, and they may find forums on Reddit or websites, such as some of the ones that we mentioned in the report.

And on those sites, some of them will actually share with kids how to access hormones online, how to self-administer cross-sex hormones. And folks can then go to those websites for these homebring. and the like. And so kind of a do-it-yourself transgender method, I guess is what you're... It is, and that's what, unfortunately, it has become. And many of these pharmacies are overseas, and who even knows what you might even be getting, first of all. But secondly, it's certainly a concern that for many of them it doesn't appear to even need a prescription. You don't even necessarily need to verify your age. And it's highly, highly concerning

what folks may end up doing in this case. And, and, and, And again, we've really got to steer these kids to good quality treatments. This do it yourself is truly dangerous. What are the names of the types of drugs that are used? Anything that we would recognize if we saw it in a, if we found some with a child or someone that you know? I'm just curious. Yeah, and oftentimes the ones that we saw were mostly estrogen-type compounds. So sometimes these are medications that perhaps are used for other indications as well

in terms of folks who might be postmenopausal and that sort of thing. Oh, yeah, so medication that would help with hot flashes, you know, those kind of things, right? Exactly, exactly. And that was primarily what we saw. We didn't see as much in the way of testosterone, and granted testosterone is even further regulated as it's a controlled substance with DEA implications. So that would certainly pose more risk to an online pharmacy if they were doing something in a, you know, a less than legal manner, so to speak. So it was mostly estrogen-based compounds that we were seeing online, which could certainly, if you're a boy who desires to have female characteristics, without these guardrails, without needing a prescription or such, you may end up going online

and getting your estrogen potentially from Thailand, Mexico, or wherever. I remember reading other stories over the years, and I don't know if you can affirm this or to say it's not true that the whole problem of just taking a male and then changing the hormones around or taking a female and changing the hormones around is that your sex at birth is a big determinant on what your body needs.

The bodies are very different in many ways. It's not just a human that you can just throw some different hormones on it and it turns around. It can cause some problems, some real metabolic and physical trauma to the body if you start going down this road. Is that true?

Could you confirm that? It certainly can. It absolutely can. And yesterday I had the privilege of being at D-Trans Awareness Day where folks who have detransitions came to really unite, support one another, and share their stories. And we heard from a multitude of detransitioners, some who are young adults and some who are older. And I recall one of the individuals, a lady who spoke about her experience on testosterone and the fact that she had five heart attacks in her 50s. Really? And, you know, there's just sort of, again, that's one person, that's an anecdote.

But nonetheless, it shows that, wow, if you're taking a male hormone, testosterone, you're going to start ending up with what is typically associated with a male, this increased cardiovascular risk and the like. So it is, yeah, these medicines don't come without risk by any means. They have significant consequences. And these stories are absolutely heart-wrenching when you hear what detransitioners have been through, especially at the hands of the medical community. And so it is definitely true that these cross-sex hormones, we've done some reporting on it as well,

just in looking at what the data shows in terms of the negative impacts of hormones when boys are taking estrogen or girls are taking testosterone. I'm kind of curious, Dr. Maselli, are there been any long-term studies of the actual surgical methods that have been put on children, you know, the mutilations, the making, the making, artificial female sex organs and trying to keep those things working or you know artificial male sex organs and things has there been any long-term study because I know that Oregon Health and Sciences University has a section there in which all they do is sit around there and come up with ways to to make transgender organ replacements of sorts and what do you know about this there there are significant significant side effects that individuals experience especially with genital

surgeries. And these are procedures where unfortunately folks end up with significant wound complications. They end up with urinary complications. Sometimes people end up having to catheter themselves for the rest of their life as a result of complications that result. They're extraordinarily difficult surgeries. And again, they can cause significant harm to folks, especially in the long run, but even in the short run, just the impact that it has, as you might imagine, When you look at the lower anatomy and having all of the different body parts that are there, it is not easy surgery by any means and does result almost inevitably in some degree of complication. And so it is troubling, especially troubling for young children.

And even breast surgery, mastectomy. You know, you can speak to a woman who've gone through cancer and actually have needed to have such surgeries because of the cancer. And they speak of the difficulties that mastectomy leads to. And certainly when we have young woman who are going through this and then perhaps five, 10, 20 years later, want to start a family and find out that they can't breastfeed their child because they're not able to.

It is horrifying. And so there are significant consequences. And I suppose it's encouraging to see the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, who are oftentimes the surgical specialists who do these procedures to come out with a statement last month saying that, hey, you know, what we shouldn't be doing these procedures and kids, this is not evidence-based, this is causing more harm. And so it's good to have a society and medical society finally speak out against these, just these horrors and kids that we've been performing and to really aim to change the tone

and to help focus on what we really do need for these children, and that's provide good quality therapy, psychotherapy, psychosocial support. And that's what we see recommended in England. Well, it used to be considered a phase, right? That some people, some kids would have this and it was a phase, and it was something that they worked through, right? And then usually. That's absolutely true.

And in fact, watchful waiting in that sense is perhaps more effective and far more effective than what we're doing when we medicalize folks. And again, you know, listening to the detransitioners and even speaking with some of my colleagues, I've heard this described as Hotel California, where you can go in, but you can't get out. And so part of the struggle that one has when one takes on a new identity, even trying to detransition, if they want to and just recognizing that, wow, I've made great mistakes, I have terrible regret, how do I go back? It can be extraordinarily difficult for folks.

And so that's why it's even more important that we approach this at all angles. We support those detransitioners who are going through a process of returning to their biological sex and embracing it. And we also want to make sure that for folks who are having these struggles, who are having gender dysphoria, that we can treat them with much safer means as opposed to the medicalization of illness. Yeah, I would agree with you wholeheartedly on this. What I am, I know this is going to sound rather cynical of me, but unfortunately my cynicism sometimes gets rewarded when it comes to such matters. Are the plastic surgeons backing away from transitioning children because they really think it's wrong? Or is it finally,

the trial lawyers have just been having their way with them and people are getting sued out of existence. I'm just kind of wondering what really drives that, you think? You know, certainly the malpractice cases perhaps will be the final straw, and we did see that victory of a Foxvary in New York, a $2 million verdict for, you know, here a girl who was unfortunately treated in such a terrible way with these procedures and such. Actually, it was for psychologist who ended up getting the bulk of the impact of the verdict as opposed to the plastic surgeon, and that was partly because of really the psychologist leading her, unfortunately, into this path. But I certainly think that the malpractice piece will be a significant part and will be a big part of stopping these procedures.

But it's extraordinarily hard for an individual. You've got to imagine that it has been through this trauma to then aim to sue and to relive the trauma can be extraordinarily difficult. And again, my hats off to the detransitioners who have the courage to do that, because I know it's certainly not easy. And oftentimes we struggle with just some of the limitations of justice in terms of the statute of limitations. And there's a real need for legal reform to allow detransitioners to have that ability to sue providers who've really hurt them as kids when they had no ability to consent to any such procedures. And so that's definitely a piece of it. But I also think that, you know, the American Society of Plastic Surgeons,

even before the position statement that they released in February, even some months before, had perhaps been the only medical society within the United States that was open to recognizing that maybe the evidence wasn't quite there. Oh. And so it was... Well, what made them different, do you think? What made the plastic surgeons different from all the other people within the medical transgender complex that seemed to be all in on this? What was different about them?

You know, I think one of the significant factors is they're often seeing these children or young adults when they're at the point of having taken the hormones, and they're the ones who are performing the surgeries. And so they might be at a point of witnessing more of the harm and the damage that has actually occurred to these individuals as opposed to perhaps the psychologist who might be just on the initiation part of the spectrum. And on the other, yeah, so the psychologist just sends the patient off and just says, hey, you need to transition, boom, off you go. The parents take the kids to the, to the surgeon, and the gender clinic, and then the psychologist doesn't see it again, right? Figures, problem solved, right? It's kind of. Well, and unfortunately, we've seen that in many cases where these cursory evaluations are done. And in other cases, the psychologists may continue to follow them along the way, but in neither case,

the key is, again, the therapy being good quality therapy, not this affirmation therapy that just allows folks into this pathway. But, you know, getting back to the medical associations, unfortunately, so many of them have been captured by means of ideologues, whether from W. Pathley, the World Professional Association on Transgender Health, which produces a standards of care that moves into this medicalization and surgical interventions. And unfortunately, those members have been very active in medical societies, and it's so important for ordinary docs to be participating in their medical society and to make sure that they're

getting involved and on these committees because, frankly, we're breaking the trust in medicine when medical societies are approving of these things that the public knows are just not right, especially again in the case of children. So I think there's really an onus on physicians to, in some sense, take back their medical societies, to bring them back to scientific basis, evidence-based reality. and I think the plastic surgeons have pushed against some of that ideological capture that unfortunately has been running throughout medical societies in the United States. Well, I'm glad to hear this. Now, Trump administration has been working really hard to take steps to protect children from these irreversible sex change interventions, you know, that kind of thing.

But when it comes to the online sex hormone marketing that you were talking about earlier, is that something which can be attacked at the state? or worked at the state level, or is this more of a federal kind of deal? What would you think is needed? It could really come from both angles. I mean, certainly there's the Food and Drug Administration, and we would certainly urge the Food and Drug Administration to further investigate these online pharmacies. And they've done this for other drugs and such

when they're unapproved drugs that are on the market and the like. And so, you know, we see that there's potentially a pathway there that the FDA could pursue with Department of Justice. But on the state side as well, when states have laws on the books that specifically say that children can't have cross-sex hormones and puberty blockers and such. That law needs to be made sure that it applies to all of the pharmacies and such. And so, you know, there might be additional adjustments that may be need to be made to some of these laws that are passed and make sure that online pharmacies are included.

But at the same time, it's often true that pharmacies need to be licensed within the state in order to distribute their product and such. So there are avenues that are on the state level, the federal level, that can look to tackle this problem and certainly it may come to the point where Congress needs to do hearings and investigations and learn, okay, are there gaps here that we need to fill in with new legislation, again, to make sure we're keeping kids safe from this online marketplace? You know, the Oregon State Legislature recently passed a law in the last session here that essentially has turned us into a sex change trafficking kind of state and it has removed

liability or, in other words, if an out-of-state child is trafficking, into the United States for this, that there's no requirement that doctors or hospitals here pay attention to the state where the kid came from, as an example. Is that something you think is going to have to be looked at from the federal government, something that is going to have to be cracked down upon? It's certainly something that needs to be looked at, and it's unfortunately not just Oregon. We see similar examples in Colorado and other states and these sort of trans-pipatial. pipelines that are being built.

And it's truly, truly unfortunate. And there's so much work that needs to be done in multiple venues, whether it is in that pipeline, whether it is in these online spaces, there are, unfortunately, as we see these gender clinics close in many states, we see other things popping up in other ways. And so it is just so critical. And I think that's why it also is so important for medical societies to do what is right as physicians, as providers, because we need to speak with the appropriate authority and to recognize the evidence to continue to move the needle in a direction towards science and safety

for kids. And I think if we do more of that, then perhaps folks will say, well, wait a second, this is not what the medical community is saying either. And that perhaps will help significantly. And I think, unfortunately, there's still a lot of change that needs to happen within medicine in order to come to the reality that everyone understands that these medications, these surgeries are harmful to kids, and that we need to look to the evidence. We need to provide the quality therapy, the quality care to help kids through this process and even looking at watchful waiting and just allowing kids to sort of progress through puberty. But with that support, allow them to feel comfortable with their biological reality

and to really have more resilience and tolerance for these emotional swings and to make sure that we're treating any underlying mental illness that they might struggle with if it's depression or anxiety. So I think as the medical community embraces a new conversation and not the conversation that's been dominated by activists, I think that will help to change things considerably as well. But certainly the work of the government has been very instrumental in at least – Well, opening up the door to –

to moving that needle, as you were talking about. That's very good. Absolutely. I really appreciate that. I will share your report online on my website. Also link to this, too. The lack of barriers to minors ordering cross-sex hormones online. It's from Dr. Kurt Moselli.

And, of course, he is with a do-no-harm. Do-no-harm Medicine.org. We'll have you back, doctor. I appreciate the talk. Be well. Thanks. Absolutely. Thanks, Phil.

Shee before 7. This is KMED. KMED HD-1 Eagle Point Metford. KBXG Grants Pass.