Bill Meyer Show Podcast - Sponsored by Clouser Drilling www.ClouserDrilling.com - 03-24-25_MONDAY_8AM

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

03-24-25_MONDAY_8AM

The Bill Myers Show podcast is sponsored by Clouser Drilling. They've been leading the way in Southern Oregon well drilling for over 50 years. Find out more about them at clauserdrilling.com. In South Jackson County on 1067 K294 AS Ashland. Every Monday where past meets present. Not only is it a segment that Dr. Dennis Powers, retired professor of business law at Southern Oregon University does, it's also the title of his latest book, which is available on hellgatepress.com. You can find out more about Dennis's other books at denispowersbooks.com. Welcome back, Dennis. Good to have you on. Always a pleasure. And this particular one on Thomas Cavner and his town Gold Hill is one of the stories that resonates for

And his town, Goldhill, is one of the stories that resonates for many years because Cavender Bill was born back in 1814 in Ireland, but he was a cabin boy in river boats. Came here when he was six years old from Ireland, a trapper with Kit Carson, a Comanche interpreter. Oh, he kind of did it all back in those days, what you could do. Kind of an adventurous soul, from the sounds of it at least, right? He really was, and you could tell right from the background that this was someone that really was standing up, because then when he came here to the Rogue Valley in 1856, he bought land on both sides of where Goathill is. But then what happened, 1860, big day, two of his ranch hands were looking for stray

horses in the hills above Cavendish property to the south of the Rogue River. I've walked, you know, that place. And Bill, the two ranch hands sat on a large rock, looked around and saw a dull yellowish something embedded in the boulder. He brought a piece of the brilliant white rock, Bill, to his boss, Thomas Kavener, who said, oh, you're kidding me, that's gold in those hills. Yeah, Houndstooth Quartz, right? That white rock that they ended up finding and lots of gold laced in that. Oh, and you know what's so amazing is that five men, being Kavner, the two finders and

two property owners, immediately filed mining claims. but I love the story because I was able to confirm it. One of the owners had a very strong liking for liquor and blurted out the news. Uh-oh. You know, one of the first things like when you're in Fight Club, remember one of the first rules is you don't talk about Fight Club, right? One of the first things is when you strike gold, you don't talk about having struck gold, right? Because by the following night, 150 men had stake claims around the mountaintop, and it was such a strong pocket of gold that nearly $50 million in today's dollars was taken out that nearly 50 million dollars in today's dollars was taken out in only eight months and Kavner then had gone ahead by that time had bought out

everyone who had the claims that had filed with him. Hey I have to ask you is our part of the claims here now remember KRWQ one of our radio stations is on top of Nuggetviewte, which is directly above the city of Gold Hill. And right up the hill there, and I go up there and service transmitter stuff up there. Is that one of those places, is that where like Nugget Butte would have come from? It seems to make sense, right? Well it does.

This one, and I had to really uh... attract this went down uh... was on the other side of the river other side of the river river that that's weep stop uh... and uh... it is one to where i had to uh... really it was an incredible feeling to to feel the fact that this is where it was.

And in any event, Kavanaugh now, my friend, was a very wealthy man, and he started buying real estate. Yeah, so he got some $700,000 of gold out of that in eight months, right? He got the great majority of it. Individuals were able to take other parts. But Bill, what really happened is that within 20 years, he had acquired three miles up the valley from Gold Hill to Central Point. He also owned ranches, orchards, farms, hotels, bars.

He turned into a land baron, is what he did with his gold, right? He was. Smart guy. He really was. He was probably the wealthiest man at that time in that area because he really totally diversified into about everything my friend could find. But then when the railroad came, and this is what really stood out to me, in late 1883, he sold 17 acres to the railroad for its Gold Hill Depot right-of-way freight office and stockyard. Then he recorded the plat map that is Gold Hill and dedicated the land for streets, but then that same layout when you go through Goathill is the one that Kavner recorded those years ago in terms of going up to 6th Avenue and then going down to the other side from where the railroad tracks are, and then all

of the individual different streets, the alphabet streets as I call them, which are now called Hayes and Freedomburg and things like that. So he goes ahead and sells all of those lots to individual people, and then he was able to also sell out as individuals started coming in for the developments that happened down there. So that happened above and below Goad Hill. He had four adult children to continue the family's business. Goad Hill then was incorporated in 1895. It's basically at its core, just as he had recorded.

He's the only one that we know in this area who was that wealthy and also had created an entire town. I'm kind of curious, do you know if any caverners still exist here in southern Oregon or did the line extinguish at some point? Kind of hard to say. I don't know any caverners. That's very interesting because he had two sons and two daughters. The sons worked his businesses all the way along and none of them really married to have kids. And then he had two daughters and these daughters were really incredible who were artistic and one of the stories is that after he passed away which is in 1888 so he was 74 years old what was interesting Bill was that they bought a house from Sears in a kit on Blackwell, built it, I've gone through it.

It's an incredible house, and in any event, the two daughters basically lived there, but they apparently, one had had a marriage before, but the descendants were very difficult to track down. I believe there's one that could be out in Wairika, but to answer your question, the whole family was Thomas Kaveners, and what he did is amazing within such a short time span because Goat Hill is Goat Hill. You know it's interesting how you talk about this in the posting. By the way, we do have our KMED.com website back. It's been out for about a week and finally the high-tech gods got it all figured out. But the point being though is that what he would do, and another way that he got more land here

in the Rogue Valley is that when farmers and other merchants, you talk about how they would need capital or a loan, they would go to Kavner for loans, and then more often than not, or I guess, or often enough, they couldn't pay back the loans. And so he got their land, right? He got their farmland, or he got their store, or he got their other issues, right?

And that's an excellent point because he would definitely foreclose if a deal's a deal. If they needed the money, he lent it. If they couldn't pay, he'd get the land. Now another person that was doing the same thing was Peter Britt, which was absolutely amazing because when we look backwards and see what these people were able to do and can see it now in the present, it really stands out because Peter Britt was doing the same thing with all the different painting and photography, first picture of Crater Lake in the 1880s. These individuals really stood out and that's our forefathers and our ancestry. Talking with Dr. Dennis Powers, retired professor of business law and of course

historian here in southern Oregon. Let me grab a call. We're talking about the Kaveners, the founding of Gold Hill. Hi, good morning. Who's this? Hey, Bill. Brad here. Good morning, Doctor. Morning, Brad. You have a take on the Gold Hill story? Go ahead. Well, on the Cavendry, yes.

So when I met my wife, she was an office manager for a real estate firm, a fishery and associates over in Clamifold. And one of the guys that worked there was Jim Cavendry. Really nice guy. And if I remember right, he had a brother, Tom, who had a solid waste disposal business on state line road down toward Doris. So there absolutely are Cavners still running around and the Cavners that I knew were absolutely great people. All right. Very good. Hey, Brad, thanks for that. I was just wondering if there were any

direct to Thomas, but well, if there's another Thomas, well there is another Thomas Kafter, so it could be, you know, connected to the family. And they're all scattered around, which is amazing. And Brad, you know, you're absolutely right. And Goathill is such a wonderful place, you know, because it has the same population now, my friend, as it did about 125 years ago, about 1, 1300 people, but it's still a place where you go through and you just say, hey, howdy Tom, how you doing, howdy Brad, it's a great place. All right, hey Brad, thanks for the local color and some contact there.

Hey Doc, there's a lot going on in the legal world in the present side of things and we'll certainly delve into that because it's where past meets present. And oh, by the way, before we get off the Gold Hill thing, when I took a friend of mine who was helping me do some work up on Nugget Butte and Gold Hill, and he was telling me to look at the forest roads as we were meandering our way up to the very top of it. And he says, you see that? You see that quartz over there? And, you know, there's the possibility that some, they always got to look for that and see if there's lines in it.

That's exactly what Thomas Kavanaugh was doing. Same sort of thing. When, after the rains, you'd be able to see it better in many times. That's absolutely right, Bill, because scattered throughout, when you look at the Goat Hill area, you'll see a number of mines When you look at the Goathill area, you'll see a number of mines that were scattered around. What brought in the people was the discovery on Cavernous land. What's interesting is, as you're pointing out, there were mines all throughout. Actually, with friends, I was scouting them all, trying to find out where the stamp mills

were. All right, good stuff. Hey, Doc, we'll be back after news and if you just hang on for a little bit, get another cup of coffee or get a refill if nothing else, and then we'll continue on with the law fair, right? That's kind of the name of the year. It's like everyone's saying, see you in court, Donald! All that kind of thing. We'll kick it around with Dr. Powers, that and more on your calls coming up. Ready to upgrade your roof to a durable?

This is The Difference. It's the Bill Meyer Show on KMED. Southern Oregon's place to talk. Sure, it looks like gold is currently ensconced, rather, is the term I was looking for, comfortably above 3,030.10. I've seen it between 30.10, gosh gosh, 3085, I guess was the peak. It's bouncing around all the time. And I don't know whether you're looking at this gold

and saying, hey, I don't have enough. It's kind of the way I look at it these days, but your mileage may vary. Maybe you are looking to sell at this point and you have scrapped gold and silver around you, or maybe you bought gold at 800. Who knows? But when you want to talk with recognized experts you go to the experts at J. Austin. J. Austin and company gold and silver buyers in Ashland and Grants Pass. Silver by the way is joining

the party. It's about 33 bucks an ounce right wing. Now I think there's still room to run on both of these because the economic instability that is probably driving a lot of this and the potential for world war, which is very real at this point, is pushing a lot of this, all right? Talk to Jay Austin, 1632 Ashland Street in Ashland Street, 6th and G in downtown Grants Pass.

Whether you need to liquidate some and get some money here for other expenses or you're looking to stack, they'll help you. FortuneReserve.com. Back with Dr. Dennis Power, retired professor of business law, where past meets present. And Wild Sam and Steve, Steve, we were wondering if there were any caverners left. Thomas Kavener, founding Gold Hill. What say you? Go ahead. Cavner, Thomas Cavner, founding Gold Hill. What say you? Go ahead.

Go ahead. Well, I graduated from Crater High School in 1965, and there was a Nancy Cavner that was in that class, I believe, maybe one or two up or down, but she lived in that house. The one on Blackwell? The one on Blackwell that Dr. Powers was talking about? Yeah, it was an old two-story house that was heated by wood, hadn't been kept up.

It was pretty much just a cold, wind-trap place to live at that hadn't been restored yet. I lived with older, I don't know, was her parents or grandparents or whatever. I didn't really know her that well but she was a calvary. And you know what when I was a kid we ran all over the hills there. There are mine shafts galore around that valley. Blackwell Hill where you go over is the hill where that that mine shaft was. There was an assay office down on Blackwell Road, kind of halfway down the hill there. One of my high school friends lived there. Across the street on the hillside, there was a guy that lived there. He had gone up into one of the mines and put a

Hose or a black plastic pipe and was pulling water out of there. He got in a shooting world somebody over that really These are really very true because all throughout there, as you're pointing out, it was honeycombed with different vines that produced and then gave up. But on that Queen Anne house, it was actually built in 1892. It's owned by others. So you just can't go ahead and walk in. But as to the four kids, they actually, the two brothers, actually lived on the different farms.

They never married. They lived to ripe old ages. As to the sisters, you had Margaret Kavner and also you had her sister that lived in the Blackwell Estate alone. So it's quite possible with Kavner's that there would be a splinter off somewhere, but the Goat Hill Historical Society, you know, hadn't gone ahead and found that for us. All right, very good. Hey, Doc, I appreciate the take on that. Steve, thank you for calling. I accidentally hung up on him as I was trying to get the phone lines getting you back on, Doc. Oh well, that's one challenge. It's a beautiful house, but it's owned and it's lived in by others,

so don't just show up. All right, here we go. Where past meets present. Let's get the lawfare report. Where do we find ourselves right now? Because everything, two-thirds of the judiciary, arguably, are communist or communist-leaning, in my point of view. And you can certainly see this when it comes time to look at that some of the judicial decisions involving the Trump administration in his effort to wrangle the administration state and maybe just strangle it into some submission.

I don't know. What do you say right now, Doc? What's going on? You're absolutely right, Bill. These are Marxist judges, period. And as a matter of fact, of the judges voting against Obama, over 90 percent, 92 percent to be exact, were appointed by Obama and or Biden. And when I was practicing law, you had to be very delicate in terms of working with judges as to their politics. But now that I'm retired, it is absolutely frightening as to these Marxist judges, because

they are creating their own law. Their ideology bill is much more important than what the law is, and you're seeing it in terms of these injunctions where a small, where a judge in DC is putting in an injunction against, underneath Article 2 for the president, that's all 50 states. Let me ask you, what can be done about this as far as restricting the ability of an inferior court? These are inferior courts, not bad courts, but they are lower-level courts. How do you get a situation where inferior courts are no longer able to rule and just completely either trounce

the executive or put a dictate in for an entire nation from one particular judicial district. What say you? You got to have what's already done is to have a law put in by Congress that cuts down the jurisdiction by law that they do not have the ability to put in injunctions over and above the party that is there before their court. These judges are Marxists. Now the second thing is, my friend, is that impeachment, unfortunately, is not going to work. You're not going to get two-thirds out of the Senate. We know that.

Exactly. Not to convict. And the other problem is that the Republicans did it again. Because, like they did with, you know, the Breyers getting the wrong judge in wrong wrong party, just through idiocy. They went ahead and brought in Amy Coney Barrett. She's turning into a problem on the Supreme Court for conservatism, isn't she? And the problem was that they just said, oh, well, you know, she has seven children. She does not believe in abortion. Well, the idiots, when they put her in there, forgot the fact she's a law professor. She's sitting there, and I remember my law professors in law school, and that's the first thing that hit me. And then you have Chief Justice

John Roberts, who upheld Obamacare in one of the worst decisions ever, and you know Bill, on his Obamacare decision, they're using that right now as a case at Harvard Law in terms of how could this have been done better and the mistakes made by John Roberts in his result reasoning. So you have this, so you've got to get a jurisdiction law in. The other thing is, the good news is, is that there is, my friend, a new sheriff in town. I was struck by the fact that the New York Court of Appeals over the weekend held that non-citizens of New York City law are not allowed to vote in municipal elections.

It was a six to one decision. They had one far left, a radical who I checked in, name was Jenny Rivera, who was an appointment by Como, and went ahead and did everything for fundraising for the Obama troops that she could. And so that's the problem because they're putting in fundraisers for ideology and that's not what the founding fathers thought about. So this is absolutely, these are Marxist judges, you can quote me. What about the, of course I'm engaging in a lot of Wattabottism, okay? Sorry, I just

apologize in advance for this. No, no need. We've worked together so many years. The courts, the federal courts have been, and all the other inferior courts, were constituted by Congress. By Congress, by the way. And I don't think the Senate, just Congress itself, because did not the House, is it not the House the one that actually constituted or created the courts, the

lower courts? Isn't that right? Yeah. Okay. What does it take then for a court to have its jurisdiction narrowed in which even the types of cases that it would be able to to see and rule on can be restricted by a vote of Congress? How does that work, do you know? Because of the fact that when you go ahead and if you look at the rules or procedure that govern

all federal courts, if you look at the laws, they come in from Washington, D.C. And it is certainly what will happen is with these Marxists and also this huge fight, my friend, between radical activists who are Marxists and moderate Democrats, as there went around. That great fight is going to also take place in terms of any law that is passed. All right. Now, is it a law or is it a rule? See what I'm getting at here? It's a law. It's a law. Okay. So creating the federal district courts was a law created by Congress and when it comes to the regulation of same is it Congress or does Congress delegate that to an administrative agency I'm sorry to

kind of get off in the weeds about this you know how this works yeah there's no there's you cannot delegate decision-making to a court as you can to an administrative agency. So that's bottom line constitutional law. All right, does the Department of Justice then control the court's jurisdiction or not? are following what our esteemed justice, John Roberts said, which is really ridiculous, which is the fact that saying, oh, well, you don't impeach them because he's so worried about his standing as the chief justice. It is perfectly appropriate to impeach a judge for anything. It's a political punishment, isn't it, doctor? I mean, this is something we have to remember about the power of impeachment. You can impeach

someone for eating a ham sandwich and you think it's offensive, if you wanted to. Well, absolutely correct. You can impeach someone. It is. Judges can be impeached in the Constitution. There are specific provisions on that, my friend. But the key thing is that if you have a Marxist in as the judge, they will go ahead and make decisions knowing that Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett have their back. Have their back. Wait for the appeal. Well, they have their back, right? You're thinking Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett have their back in this. I would not as an attorney call it having their back. I would just say that

I understand what's going on because of the fact that I was there in court. But the key thing, my friend, is the fact that this is being done by Marxists to slow down, to keep the administrative state. Death of a thousand cuts, right? And it's more than that, because what's happened is that even Schumer, oh, Chuckie Boy, is sitting there saying, we are going to fight them on every avenue we have, and then he's taking a victory lap trying to keep his damn job for getting in these what we call, which is an anachronism, a progressive judge. All right. If you were advising the president, what strategy would you use then for him to rein in as much

as possible the judicial attack on his agenda moving forward? What would you do? What he's doing, Bill, is brilliant. Really? This is according to my deep throat in Washington, DC. What he's doing is brilliant because what Trump is doing is he's going into all these different areas and the radical left can't keep up. They're going ahead now and trying to destroy Tesla, but he already went ahead with Jim Jordan and got the standing ovation that I was watching at the NCAA wrestling championship. Just because I read all the people. The people are behind him, but the courts aren't behind the

people. That's still what concerns me. What's that? That has been. There's no surprise there. It has been there, my friend, for years, going back to how many judges Obama got in and Biden got in. And none of this. And what happened was that they had their own conservative, they being the radical part of the Democratic Party, with Schumer, had their own agenda. They got in the Southern District of New York for the district court. That's where all the problems in lawfare came against Trump. And at the same time, they packed the

courts, the district courts in the District of Columbia, which is not a state. But the point is they do have a district court. Now should the District of Columbia courts be closed by Congress and then redistribute the duties to other districts? Because the D.C. court is essentially the deep state court. It should be the D.S. court is what it should be called. Wouldn't you agree? I mean the D.C. district?

Bill, my friend, it will never happen because you can't get it passed because remember this, whether it's getting rid of something like the Department of Education, which is a legal congressional law, or whether it's the getting these judges impeached, it's impeachment that Trump went through, it's two-thirds of the Senate. Yeah, I understand that part, but even the act of impeachment can sometimes sharpen the mind, wouldn't it? I don't think so because I thought about that. These are excellent points you're bringing up, but I don't think so because I was talking with a friend of mine the other day who has been a very good attorney in a lot of different areas. And I said, you know, the problem is that these judges want to get their own promotion,

so they're not going to get promoted with Trump. So these adverse, radical judges are making positions that hopefully, and what they're going on is, aha, when we have Crockett or someone that gets in in four years, we got a shot for the Court of Appeals. We got a shot for the Supreme Court. That's the way it works. Okay. Final question I would have for you this morning is that,

what are the, well, what is the process? I know this is going to a state issue versus the federal issue right now. The state of Oregon is arguably working really hard to pass even more unconstitutional, arguably on its face unconstitutional gun bans here. Same with California. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ended up saying that their magazine ban, which was just laughable, was constitutionally legal. It's just absolutely ridiculous. We have Washington state doing the same thing, Oregon going through the same thing, and everything

about it seems to be just openly defying the Bruin decision from the Supreme Court. Hey, things in common use, you can't ban this stuff and yet every state's doing it. It's as if the blue states have decided we're just going to ignore the Supreme Court. What could be done about something like that? Do you know? Or is there anything that can be done? Because I know that it's not like the Supreme Court has an army. It's kind of like going back to, well, Mr. Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it kind of thing. Well, we have two things. One is the fact that we're living in a state that's out of control and it actually, nationally, is being laughed at. Oregon and Salem's being laughed at. Yeah, well, Oregon and Salem

may be laughed at, but what's being done to we the people here, we're crying over this kind of stuff. It's serious as a heart attack. People are voting with their feet and leaving this state. I'm going to answer your question. But one of the ones that came up, Bill, was the fact that right now going to the House is that striking workers can get unemployment benefits. Indeed. Yeah, we know it well. Yep. Yeah, and that is totally ridiculous. Now on the other side is what do you do about it? You do two things. One is the fact is that you can fight for it, but if you have your own business, we don't have the time. And on the other side is that

you go to meetings, you work with the Republican Party, because at some point in time these things will change. Will it be in my lifetime? I would like it, but I don't know. In other words, we have to agree to be stomped upon? No. Because, you know, I assure you that if Oregon was going to make you fill out permits and do all sorts of things and pass a background check to vote, they would go nuts in the state

of Oregon, right? They would go nuts. But they're doing the same thing for the Second Amendment. It's inferior right in this state. We're turning it that way. Yeah, you're absolutely right in your observations. All of us believe and have the experience to where what's being done by Salem is past ridiculous, but how many years have we talked about it?

So the thing is that you fight, you go ahead. I mean, like this wildlife, if it wasn't for my friend Josephine County standing up to the bar and saying, we're going to appeal for everyone that owns land in Josephine County against these wildlife idiocy classifications. Oh, the wildfire, you're talking about the wildfire map? That sort of thing? Yeah, I am. And so if it wasn't for Josephine County standing up to do that, and I'd like to see Jackson County, but the appeal period is past, my friend. I'm just concerned that we may be past the time of courts. And I don't like saying that because I know it sounds pretty radical

what I'm talking about because even going to court in Oregon and in the district courts, it's already rigged. It's like it is a pre-rigged system designed to crush you financially. You're having to play by those rules and I get really concerned that when our own states won't follow precedent and rule of law and things like that, that it's going to eventually shove us down a dark hole. I don't need to get, you know, descriptive in what kind of dark hole this could be, but I think you get my drift.

Yes, I do. And, you know, from my position, since I'm not actively going to court, it's easier for me to tell what I have seen and what I can corroborate. But we don't give up the fight. The problem is, is with all the myriad of small businesses who are working after COVID, there's almost so much time they have, but you don't give up the fight. Then that's why the Alliance Defending Freedom gives me some real good feelings in terms of contributing to them. So in other words, it might have to do with getting together with some of the legal defense

nonprofits and seeing what they could do to help. All right. Yeah. All right. When you do it, you should get someone that's got the big brass that comes in with the big attorneys that can go ahead and take it because that's how Grants Pass was able to win, my friend, in terms of that homeless idiocy that went up to the Supreme Court.

But then what does our state do? Doubles down and enacts what the Supreme Court said we don't have to do anymore. It's just astounding. I mean, this is where we find ourselves. All right, Doc. Hey, I'm out of time now, but I appreciate the talk and thank you for letting me bend your ear on a legal eagle style of things. Okay?

All righty? It's always a pleasure, Bill, because you're the best. All right. Thank you for letting me bend your ear on a legal eagle style of things, okay? All righty? It's always a pleasure Bill because you're the best. All right, thank you very much. Dr. Dennis Powers, where past meets present. The email of the day on the Bill Meyers show sponsored by Central Point Family Dentistry. See all they have to offer at centralpointfamilydentistry.com and call for an appointment. Dr. Steve Nelson and his staff are next to Mazatlan Mexican Restaurant just off Pine in Central Point.

Are you using extension cords outside? You likely need Completed Electric Plus to install an all-weather plug where it's most convenient. Need a plug for your power equipment? Completed. Pond pump? Completed. A string of lights on your pavilion? Completed. How about a TV on the patio? Completed Electric Plus installs electric plugs quickly, expertly, and affordably with certified electricians specializing in residential electrical jobs.

Call Completed Electric Plus and check those jobs off your list. Visit CompletedElectricPlus.com. Two dogs fabricating carries North Star flatbeds and trailers along with a full line of Horizon and Iron Bull trailers, but we built our business on in-house custom fabrication. All custom jobs are under one roof, saving time and bringing costs down while constructing your bed or trailer exactly the way you want it. So if you have a unique trailer or flat bed in mind, Two Dogs will design and build and have you on the road in just a few weeks. Two Dogs Fabricating, our dog house is on Ryan Way just off Sage Road. Visit PewDogsFab.com. Hi this is Mark from Jay Austin and I'm on KMED. 857 John's here.

John you wanted to talk about the passing of George Foreman. We learned about that Friday. What are you thinking? Yeah the Job Corps in Grasse Pass which is now the community college was where George Foreman was when he was very young. And he was mentored by the sheriff, George Eckstein, who had been a professional boxer and then he was teaching golden gloves there at the Job Corps. And that was probably one of the turning points that got him into professional boxing later. Yeah, he's only here for a few months, but it must have been a pretty influential few months, right? Yeah. George Eckstein was quite the mentor for a lot of people. My wife's little brother was under his

wing and he actually he was probably a featherweight and sparred with George Foreman to get a little speed up. Yeah, I bet so. I think I love that. I interviewed George Foreman once probably about 15 years ago and it was always interesting. I asked him, why do you name all your kids George? And he says, well that way I don't forget their names. But he was quite a character and what a talent too for that matter. Thanks for the call John, I appreciate that. Joe Henry also, who is the son of Hank Henry, former newscaster, former KMED newscaster or anchor, ended up having, there was a picture of him with George Foreman as a very young man here, taken here during that time that John was just mentioning.

Great stories. It's 8.58 and change. Tomorrow, Pebble in Your Shoe Tuesday. And if you want to email me, tell me your story, email Bill at BillMeyersShow.com.