Bill Meyer Show Podcast - Sponsored by Clouser Drilling www.ClouserDrilling.com - 04-04-25_FRIDAY _8AM

Episode Date: April 4, 2025

04-04-25_FRIDAY _8AM

The Bill Myers Show podcast is sponsored by Clouser Drilling. They've been leading the way in southern Oregon well drilling for over 50 years. Find out more about them at www.clouserdrilling.com. And Dr. Emily Sander, MD, is in studio with me. Brand new book just out, just a few days ago, this came out and it's entitled, Reviving the Heart of Medicine. Dr. Ines, great to have you on. Welcome back. Thank you so much, I'm happy to be here. All right, tell me a little bit about the type of medicine that you practice right now, because you started off in the allopathic,

I think is the term for it, and you were an emergency physician for many years, and you tell a lot of this story in here, but what do you do right now? for many years and you tell a lot of this story in here, but what do you do right now? So I transitioned after the pandemic into a thing that's called integrative medicine. So I did a two-year fellowship for that

and it is basically combining the best of both types of medicine. So alternative medicine with traditional allopathic as well. Okay, all right. And where do you practice? Because I know you have one in Ashland. What's the name of your clinic, I guess? Yep. So it's The Well, and it's a Christian Integrative Wellness Center, but we have our main location was based out of Wyricka, and then we also have our other location in Ashland on Siskiyou Boulevard, and then I also see integrative patients down in Redding.

Okay, so integrative where you're taking the best of different modalities or however you practice. What would an example be of how you might treat someone? Okay, someone goes to your standard clinic, your standard daily clinic, and they're saying, okay, I have a backache and whatever it is, and all right, here's some pain pills, go home, have a nice day.

How might you treat something like that? I've always been curious what an integrative specialist would do that's different. So when someone say we're to come in for back pain, you would want to assess, you know, what was the injury? What originally started the back pain? How long has it been, you know, in place? And then you look into things that are lifestyle issues.

So is there stress involved? Did they, is there something like posture that's involved? Do they need to see physical therapy? Can alternative things like essential oils or massages, acupuncture, could you involve that in the care? And then you also combine that with traditional. So you're looking at red flags, like, like okay someone's coming to me with back pain from my history

in the ER. I'm thinking do they have any major like new numbness, anything loss of bowel or bladder function and something that I need to do that. Got a kidney problem that we don't know about right? Yes, exactly. That sometimes can masquerade as a backache, those sort of things. Yes. Yep. Okay.

So you have more tools in your toolbox, so to speak. Yes. Is that a good way of putting it? Did you always set out to be that? No. Actually, I originally told my parents when I was seven that I would never become a physician. I don't know. That came out of my mouth.

And when I… And you know, I have… God has the joke on that. But I actually, when I graduated high school, I started out in cosmetology school and I was a beauty school dropout. And then- A beauty school dropout. Yep. Yep. And so- And now you are a physician. Yes. And so it's been quite a journey. But yeah, when I realized that that wasn't what I wanted to do, I thought, okay, I'm going to go to college. And then I loved science. And I just one door after another opened and I got into medicine. Okay. So it wasn't something that you set out to do.

No. But it was something which ended up becoming you nonetheless. Yes, absolutely. Okay. And what area of the country did you end up practicing in at first? And I don't know, when did you actually graduate? What era did you come to me in? So I graduated from Loma Linda Medical School down in 2013. And then I did a three-year emergency medicine residency on Long Island in Manhasset. And then I came back after that and started practicing in southern Oregon for a short bit then I came back after that and started practicing in

Southern Oregon for a short bit before I took on a job down in Wairika and then became the director of the ER down there. A big part of this book, which is just out right now, and it's called Reviving the Heart of Medicine, and I've been kind of just skipping through some of the chapters to get the overall feel of it. A lot of this seems to be tied into changes with you via the Spirit. And we're speaking of the Holy Spirit and it's something that I don't think you hear many physicians talk about. Could you tell us a little bit about that journey, how so much of this seemed to open up through your faith. Yeah.

Well, true wisdom only comes from the Lord. And I've always been a follower of Christ, but I really kind of went off track when I went through a divorce in medical school. But God really had such grace and mercy, and I just kept still seeking after Him, and He kept just doing things as part of my story, leading me in the direction He wanted to go. And so, as time went by, I realized how many things that, you know, you can't function apart from Him. And I realized that everything I do, whether it's in my home life or my

work life, depends on that relationship with him. That's really interesting that you said, as I'm going through this book and I remember that you were divorced and you're like married to your high school sweetheart right then and you're thinking, hey this is gonna be my forever guy and you don't get into the detail, it's not even that important part of it, but you were getting off track I think at that point and then did you were getting off track, I think, at that point. And then did you get back on track when you became an emergency physician or when did that?

Yeah. So it was actually at the end, my final year of residency, God just really started showing me, hey, I'm calling you back and I want you to begin to change what you're doing, change how you're living your life. And so I started waking up three, four in the morning just spending time with him before my shifts and started getting this just peace and knowledge that he's going to be with me and help me through this. I want to make it clear that your book is not a proselytizing book. Okay. That's not

you're just sharing your story about this, but I find I find interesting and the first chapter you open up the first chapter with a couple of I Would dare call them miracles. Yeah that ended up occurring in your practice And I want I want to share that with people here in just a little bit if you don't mind Yeah, we'll be back. I guess it's great story. Dr. Emily Sander MD here from Southern, Oregon, Northern, California We'll be back. Like I said, it's a great story. Dr. Emily Sander, MD here from Southern Oregon, Northern California, reviving the heart of medicine. More next. Is your business or personal? Welcome to the Bill Meyer Show on 1063 KMED. Sure glad you're here. 823 back with Dr. Emily Sander. Her new book just out. How many days ago did it come out? It's like just now. Yeah, it came out

this last weekend. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to hold it up to the Facebook Live camera so that people can see this. It's reviving the heart of medicine, your keys to healing. You didn't set out to be a doctor, but you became a doctor. In fact, you even told your parents, hey, I'm never going to be a doctor when you're a kid. And I think God had a last laugh on you. Okay? I have a last word. So you. Okay. Last word.

So here it is. You graduate. You're getting out of a bad time. You've always been a person of faith. Kind of went sideways then. Divorced, etc. So here you are an emergency doctor in a small hospital. Must be in Northern California.

Yes. I'm assuming someplace. And names will be withheld to protect the innocent out there apparently. And you had an experience that had me tearing up. This is the opening up part of the the book in which you had a revelation about about healing and it will...why don't you just tell me what happened with this and and you what you would call real miracles occurring within your practice. Yeah, so I actually, my husband and I were just spending time just listening to some worship music and it was the night before Thanksgiving and I was given a boy's name that just came into my mind

and it was not a usual name, no one that I knew, and I thought that's really unusual. And so I started asking God, you know, what is the meaning of that? Why did I hear this name? And this is a name that you're being just revealed to you. Yep. Right? Yep. And so the next day I show up to my shift and there's a boy on a ventilator. And so I'm thinking, man, this is, that's unusual. I don't, you know, I don't know who this

is, but there's a lot of doctors that are trying to revive this boy and he's, he's not doing well. His lungs were really clotted up from what I recall. Yeah. Yeah. I read this chapter. So, yeah. And so, um, yeah, we were spending, you know, just doing everything we could between four different doctors to try to help this little boy and nothing was working. And then I heard God say, this is one you're going to have to pray for. And I just thought, wow, that's, you know, it's kind of scary, especially as a physician. Yeah. What happens in a conventional medical system where you were that time, emergency room, what happens when God commands you to pray over a patient. What happened? Well, you know, I listened to God over anyone else. And so when he said that, I started praying for strength and wisdom of how to do this.

And then I started praying that the people would be open to it, and you know, that I wouldn't be pushing anything on them, but that I would just be support and bringing God to them. And so I ended up, you know, once the other physicians knew that we couldn't really do anything in our own strength, the last one left, and so I just sat down with the family and I said, hey, how are you feeling? And they said, we're scared. And I used that as my opportunity and I said, okay, if you're okay with it, let's pray. And they went for it. And I think you had one of the other physicians

that you didn't think would have been real open to this. Right? Yes. So the other physician leaves the room and you're in with a family. What did you do with like a laying of hands on? Yeah, well, we all just came up to the bed. And by the way, his oxygen level was extremely low, way below 90% of what I remember you saying.

Yeah, it was. And it was still, he was ventilated and on max settings and he was still only getting to 86% and had been like this for hours. And so, yeah, so we, it was the father and the grandfather that were in the room and they just came up and we laid hands on the boy and I prayed. And it was at that moment that I flipped over the wristband of the boy that I'd been caring for for three hours. I didn't know his name. And as I started to pray, when I flipped the name band, it was the name I'd been given the night prior.

In the revelation. Yes. Wow. Okay. What ended up happening though after the prayer because really unusual things, things that I think a lot of times people think that there are no such thing as miracles today, like all the miracles happened, you know, two, 3000 years ago, I guess. But what happened there? This kid. And nobody knew what to do with this kid. No. He was very sick. No. And actually the transfer team was blocked from coming to get him due to the weather.

And so we really had no hope. We were just doing what we could. So I went down, I went back to the provider office and I sat down and just started typing and just, you know, was kind of overwhelmed. I looked up at the monitor and the monitor just started steadily rising for the oxygen levels. And so it started at 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, and it held. The other doctors had given up on this kid. Yes. And they were saying, you're just gonna have to get him and take an airlift him up to the larger children's hospital

in the state. And they had given up, there's nothing more I can do, I have to go on to my other rounds. Yes, Yep. And so he was saved. Right? Yep. Yep. So he stayed safe. And then at that time, when his oxygen got to the 92, we got a phone call and the transfer team was now released to come and pick him up. Oh, good. So this kid ended up being saved. And that wasn't the end though. No, it wasn't the end. And this was an unusual name. This was a very specific name that you were given. Yep. It happened again? Yes. So right after this kid leaves, I ended up getting a phone call or the EMS phone rang

and they said they're bringing in another pediatric patient but this time it was a trauma. Yeah this kid had a bunch of broken legs and you know just just a mess right. Yep had some significant injuries. He's screaming as he's being brought in. Yep and so as a ER doc you always start out and there's very a systematic way that you do a trauma and so at the head of the bed you have to be assessing airway breathing. And the first question you always ask is, what is your name? Because you're seeing if they can actually speak their name and if they know it. And he spoke the name the second time of that, that I had had revealed. The same name? Yeah. Same day or different? Yes, same day. Same day? Yep. So you have two patients the same day revealed to you the day before and it was, and what

was being done? Was it just the name that you originally heard at that point? Yep. And so usually when I hear something like that, I usually start researching or asking like, God, why he spoke that. And so I had actually looked up the name, the meaning of the name to see because your name, you know, there's identity that's attached to names. And so I thought, you know, if he's speaking a word, I should probably look into

this. And there's a funny story in the end because you ended up taking care of the kid that had all the broken legs and the trauma. He was like thrown off of… It was an ATV accident. ATV accident, right? Yeah. And as he's calmed down, you told him something. I thought that was great.

Yeah. Share that, please. So I just asked him if he knew what the meaning of his name was and he didn't and neither did his parents. And then I told him, well, it means warrior. And he just stopped and he just shouted and he said, I'm a warrior. It was awesome. So it's cool to see. I mean, so that was a great happy, you know, ending to an otherwise pretty,

pretty busy day in the ER room. But after the news break here, I want to ask you, what was the reaction when people started saying, okay, what did you really do with this patient? All right. And then maybe we'll talk about the current medical system too in your overall take. Integrative physician Dr. Emily Sander, MD, with me. Her book is Reviving the Heart of Medicine. We'll be back.

From the KMED News Center, here's what's going on. The Grand Spas City Council. medicine. We key to healing. So, doctor, you were telling us when we last broke about the kind of the revelations, the spirit kind of starting to run into your practice of medicine, which it had not before up to that point, right? Correct. Okay. And so you had the the two names revealed to you, same different boys, but the same thing, same wild day over the in the emergency room. It was kind of a big change for you. How did your colleagues act when they found out that, hey, you had actually prayed over a patient? And I don't know, did they

explode in flames because of, you know, something happened and they got really uncomfortable and what went on then? Yeah, actually, no, I think that when the other physician came in and she saw the monitor going up and I had closed the curtains actually when I had prayed with the boy. It's a little suspicious, right? Yeah. Why did you close the curtain, Emily? Yeah, so she came in and she asked me and she said, what did you do in there?

And I told her, I said, well, where medicine failed, God stepped in. I said, I asked the family if they wanted to pray and we prayed. And that's the only thing I did was prayer. And God came in and saved the boy with us. And so she was shocked. She didn't actually have a response. And I haven't really talked to her much after that. Were you promptly fired after this?

It's a serious question. I was still the director, so they didn't fire me. But no, I actually, I think there's quite a few of us who believe and, you know, some of us, you know, we aren't as open with our faith, but at the same time, we use our faith to get through when we are taking care of these hard cases. So yeah. One of the concerns that I've had about the practice of medicine today, and you do discuss this in reviving the heart of medicine, is that the heart of medicine today, and you do discuss this in reviving the heart of medicine,

is that the heart of medicine right now seems to be kind of dried and cracked, is how you described it. And I would dare say that the COVID time especially broke it and we're still living with the, you know, the aftermath of this right now. I've always wondered why or how we got to the point where the human body and we people, we humans are looked at as it's just a meat machine. You know, all we are is just a, okay, there's maybe a soul if you believe in the sky buddy, I'm talking, you know, from the secularist point of view. There's only the sky buddy people, but then it's just a meat machine and if you press the right buttons on the meat machine and you give the right particular pharmaceutical drug at the right time, it will

always fix it. It's that kind of thing. But that's not the way it works in real practice. But that's not the way it works in real practice. Absolutely. Yep. Is this what you're trying to get past, this purely secularist way of looking at the practice of medicine and of patients? Yeah. Give me your take, please. Well, all of the patients that come across your path, there's many that have obviously

different beliefs. And it's our job as healers and as physicians to meet them where they're at and to support them in mind, body, and spirit. And if you're only offering them solutions that are, you know, here, take this pill or, you know, use this cream and leave my office, you're missing out on important times to connect

and heal that patient. Because a lot of times what brought them into you is not just that physical issue. It's an emotional, you know, they're stressed. They are dealing with family members or friends or something that's hurt them. And so you really have these opportunities to meet them on a different level. You had mentioned to me during the break that statistics when they talk about emergency room visits that more than half of them are not just a medical issue? Correct. Yes. So chronic disease is the main reason that patients come into an ER and so what does chronic disease stem from? It stems from major stressors. You know you don't just have a heart attack out of nowhere if you don't have

lifestyle, genetics, you know these major things in your life that have created that issue. And so strokes, heart attacks, you know, high blood pressure, AFib, those things don't just happen in a vacuum. They happen over time and then something triggers it. And that's what we're talking about. Dr. when did you get triggered to leave the conventional practice of medicine that you had been in for all those years prior to becoming an integrative physician? Yeah, during the pandemic was really what started to open my eyes.

I just was as a young physician, I was disappointed to see so much division and angst amongst staff, other providers and patients. There was isolation, fear, anxiety, division, and really the pandemic, it was not just a virus we were battling with, we were battling with these other things that were impacting and causing so much harm to patients and providers,

anyone in the world was affected. Were you one of those medical professionals that was deciding to get out because you were going to be forced either to mask up or take the jab? Let's say back then. Just curious. So I don't know what your firm is doing. Yep. So I definitely believed more in the freedom to choose what you were going to decide to do. I felt like there was a lot of things that were pushed on people in fear. And there was a lot of negativity and very harsh comments of when people had decided

not to get the vaccine or not to make certain choices, there were comments from people that would say, this person deserved this when they got sick, which is completely against what we do in medicine. So you would have colleagues in the medical world that someone didn't take the jab then, well, they deserve to die. You'd really get that.

I mean, I'm kind of cutting to the core. There were comments that were beyond disappointing and broke my heart. Well, they deserve to die. You'd really get that. I mean, I'm kind of cutting to the, to the core. There were comments that were beyond disappointing and broke my heart. And I can tell that from multiple other, multiple other people that I worked with. It was not just me that heard those. And this was not a, you know, only a local area. This was across the nation and across other countries. So yes, there was, if anyone who lived through the pandemic, you know, and people still carry those wounds, patients were terrified to come see physicians. Many in my practice that come to me now stopped

going to providers because they were so shamed and judged by some of those decisions. And some, you know, it interfered with their healthcare and that should never be that we are creating and wounding our patients. I can imagine some of the comments must have been, boy, if you came in and you didn't want the jab, let's say, not that I want to focus on this, but this was a big turning point for you, okay?

That not only would someone not want to take the jab, oh, but they're fat too. Oh, they doubly deserve to die, right? Yes, there was definitely a lot of negative things that were very harmful. How did medicine get to that? I don't think it was just the COVID pandemic. There had to have been seeds planted

a long time ago on this. What do you think? So I think for several years, there's been a lot of burnout in medicine. You enter medicine thinking, I'm doing an altruistic thing. That's really what draws you into it. You want to help people, whether you're in nursing, respiratory therapy, things like that. And then you start to see a lot of issues pop up

that are in the system, they're system-wide issues, whether it's with, you know, during training or things like that, you start to realize, wow, this is not what I actually really expected. And as the director at the time, I did go to our administration and I said, I'm concerned right now, we're seeing a pandemic from a virus. And I said, I'm concerned right now we're seeing a pandemic

from a virus and I said, you are about to step into a pandemic of burnout with your providers because they are experiencing so much trauma, so much stress, so much division that they are going to be harmed themselves unless we proactively try to help them heal. And that really was the impetus of this book. It was not to stay in a dark place.

It was not to say, oh, these are all the terrible things in the system. It was to look at this system, look at medicine and say, how can we do better? How can we move past this and bring reconciliation and heal our patients, heal our practitioners? So even in your opinion, then many of the medical professionals within our system right now are walking

wounded. Absolutely. I mean, you hear it, you see it, and you have a lot of providers that they don't even realize you, you have, you know, comments or, you know, these, these interactions that can be at times just really startlingly bad. And then I always step back. Like I can't believe you actually think this about your patients. Correct. Right.

And so then you just kind of, I take a step back and say, you know, hurt people hurt other people. And so you really have to look at it and say, you know, this person unfortunately was hurt and that's their protective responses to kind of lash out. So our whole thing is to meet that with grace and to say, how do we help them get the help they need so that they can move past it? And many are very good people.

Many, like I have many friends in the regular system and many amazing people that practice medicine. So it's not a thing of, oh, the whole system and many amazing people that practice medicine. So it's not a thing of, oh, the whole system is bad. It's just that there are things that I think as a group we need to look at and reassess. But the hearts have hardened over time. Correct. And I think that might be what you mean by reviving the heart of medicine. Yes. What does that look like? Yes. What does that look like? Well, that looks like just asking the right questions of yourself because you cannot heal someone else if you yourself are very hardened and a hurting person. So, the whole goal in this book

is to take practitioners and anyone, patients even, through the different steps of reconnecting your heart with God, reconnecting, learning the steps that it takes to really have a softened heart and to be able to forgive. What if someone doesn't agree with you on something like this? And because they'll say, well, I don't want to connect with God. I believe in Gaia, or I believe in, or I'm a Buddhist, let's say. Yeah. What would you say to that?

Because you're not proselytizing. You're talking about what works for you. Yep. Would that work for everyone, you think? Yeah, so some of these main concepts, say one of them, one of the chapters is entitled loving Judas. And it's basically… Loving Judas.

I think I know where you're going on this one. Please explain that. All right. So it's basically really learning to forgive the person who hurt you the most. And that is probably the hardest thing that we are asked to do. And it doesn't matter what spirituality practice that you follow, if you are holding on to anger and unforgiveness, it's like you're drinking poison

and hoping something happens to the other person that harmed you. It has effects. We know that it has effects on the body. So that's really what I focus on when patients, they don't wanna hear, some of them that come to our practice, they don't wanna hear hear about God and we're there to love them anyway.

We are there to… But they understand that part about it though. Yeah. And we are there to say, hey, there are toxic emotional patterns. It may be resentment, it may be severe fear, but things that are going to interfere with your health unless you attempt to deal with that. And it does affect the biological body, right? Absolutely. Absolutely.

Okay. Boy, in other words, are you going, are you doing a pleasant going to war against, now I know this was a television show that I, it really bugged me after a while, but that old Fox TV show House with Dr. House, who is just the nastiest piece of garbage human in the world, but yet he's a brilliant medical thing and will get everything else figured out, but really bad bedside manner, that kind of thing. Is that sort of the impression you're going to war against the grumpy, brilliant medical tactician? I think that you can be brilliant and you can be kind and compassionate. And that's really what

I'm going after. And I'm there too to talk to patients because patients don't realize how much power they have in also influencing their providers. If they treat them kind and if they are loving in response, they can a lot of times shift even the hardest of hearts of a practitioner. And so that's really what I'm trying to open the eyes of some people on. All right. I'm speaking once again this morning with Dr. Emily Sander MD, reviving the heart of medicine, your keys to healing. A lot of people seem to want to talk to you. I have to take a quick break, put some headphones on you, and maybe we'll grab a call or two. Okay, perfect. And if you wanted to ask her a question, I think it's a really interesting story and a very thought-provoking book. This is the

Bill Meyer Show. All of us need to be prepared. Giving a little more time to Dr. Emily Sander, MD, because I think that what she's talking about in her book, Reviving the Heart of Medicine, is important. Books available at just, first off, at all the usual suspects at this point, it's been out about a week, right? Yes. Okay. All right.

So it is… Amazon. I think Barnes & Noble Online as well. Do you have a website for yourself, too? I have it for the Well Center for Healing. I'm working on creating one for the book. Okay, very good. Reviving the Heart of Medicine. Vicki, you're on with Dr. Sander. Go ahead.

Good morning. I just had a quick example of God's work. My husband, when he was five, he got some kind of fever. He had a fever for a month, and it was like 105. They brought a priest in and they laid hands on him and basically the doctor said there's really nothing we can do. We don't understand why he has this fever. The next morning he woke up and his fever broke and ever since he was five years old, he's had this purpose to him that when he turns 65, he's going to be helping people. He's not sure what is required of him, but he just knows that when he's 65, he's going to be put in a position where he's going to be helping other people.

And he's 57 now, and we've been together 37 years. He's always been very religious. Okay, yeah, and where are we going to go on this, though? I'm just almost out of time. I just want to agree with Dr. Emily that prayer does make a difference. It does heal the soul. It heals the body. I really wish people didn't deviate away from God and I hope someday, like maybe your book will help people understand that there is more than modern medicine. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. I really appreciate it. Thank you very much for that, Vicki.

You know, Doctor, in our final few minutes here, I just wanted to make sure that people understand here, when you're talking about reforming medicine and reviving the heart of medicine and getting more of that heart center out there, isn't part of that going to be, I hate to put it this way, Obamacare and the centralized medical system that we have right now, that we're all living with, in which as I jokingly refer to it, my primary care physician is my imaginary friend that I see maybe once every year or two, that kind of thing. And I have a parade of people who really don't know me, you know, talking to me now. I don't go to the doctor very often, but still. Isn't that something

which is needlessly or needfully going to have to be broken somehow? Absolutely. And that's our goal is to really transform medicine and change, you know, make a new movement that is going after personalized medicine that is that with the goal of being beneficial to the patient. And so they need more time with their providers. They need to have tough questions asked, and you need to have the freedom to be able to ask those questions. And that was the unfortunate thing. Unfortunately, during the pandemic is that voices were squashed and there was no ability for free speech or you would be harassed or potentially lose your license. And that is not the scientific method

and that is not what we should have in medicine. And by the way, having your faith and working with prayer is not anti-science. Correct. It was augmenting science is what you were essentially doing, right? Yes. I just wanted to be clear. So this was taking care of not just the body, but working on the spirit and having both in harmony. I guess I don't want to put words in your mouth. I'm just kind of the overall impression I was getting from this.

Getting both in harmony was really the key to that health. Absolutely. I mean, your patients are mind, body, and spirit. And if you only help one portion of that and you only see the physical portion, then you really are missing a large portion for that patient to help them heal. How do you think that this will be accomplished in the United States given that so much of healing right now is delivered through government hired doctors, government mandated protocols, and in many cases government insurance too for that matter. What do you think? Well the enemy has

always tried to squash God's Word and it's never been successful. It's only grown and there are tons of people that are in the medical profession that are believers. And my book is a call to have them stand up, wake up, and push back and to start going after helping their patients on not just a physical level, but to have these conversations with them, to pray with them if they're open to it, to ask for wisdom. I mean, it doesn't have to be, you know, something that's always fully out there. Okay.

Does standing up though mean that we have to almost do the Benedict options sort of thing where you create a parallel medical society that is, you know, guard, you know, obviously way different than the standard medical experience for most people going in. So right now that is, you know, that's why we created the well is I couldn't foresee in the regular system how it is so, you know,

it's time sensitive. You have to push patients through as quick as you can. You got 10 minutes. Yep. And- You better get it all done. Yeah, and we couldn't do that. You can't do that in the regular system. It's, it's so focused on insurance and these returns.

And so doing the well, that's why we developed that is that was our, our solution to trying to, you know, fix what we saw was broken. I will be really curious here to see what happens given that we are up against a debt crisis in the United States right now. And a lot of the medical care, which is very expensive, and it's not sustainable in the current model that we're looking at. I'm wondering if with your model is going to be the model of choice because we have no other choice at that point.

Yeah. Yeah, who knows? I just thought I would raise it. Insolvency will sharpen a lot of minds. We'll see. Yes. Well, thank you so much. But it is a wonderful thought-provoking book. It is called Reviving the Heart of Medicine, Your Keys to Healing, Dr. Emily Sander, MD. I appreciate you being on and we'll put all your information up on KMED.com and thank you for coming in. Thank you again. Something tells me if I ever have a question about this sort of stuff, I'll put you

Call you. Absolutely. All right. We'll call you. Have a great day. Have a wonderful weekend folks. We'll talk more on Monday and I appreciate your listenership.