Bill Meyer Show Podcast - Sponsored by Clouser Drilling www.ClouserDrilling.com - 04-28-26_TUESDAY_7AM

Episode Date: April 28, 2026

04-28-26_TUESDAY_7AM

This hour of the Bill Meyer Show podcast is proudly sponsored by Klauser Drilling. They've been leading the way in Southern Oregon well drilling for more than 50 years. Find out more about them at Klauserdrilling.com. Now more with Bill Meyer. Great having you here. It's 11 minutes after seven. Wendy Reese joins me and she spent years silently battling darkness, trauma, depression, suicidal despair, and a whole bunch more.

and she's written about this. And it's a treatment which is starting to, well, make a lot of noise. This has to do with psychedelic treatment. And the book is called The Christian's Guide to Psychedelics. Wendy, it's a pleasure having you on. Welcome. Thank you so much, Bill. It's great to be here with you.

All right. Tell us a little bit about that experience, what first got you into it and where, well, where you ended up being directed into psychedelics. because I know that the president ended up issuing an executive order, kind of pushing this therapy, the state of Oregon has gone into this. And I'll be the first to tell you there is something about the psychedelic therapy that I'm not real comfortable with. And I want to find out if it's a rational uncomfortableness,

where if there's something good to it, maybe you went through the same thing. I was wondering if you tell us me more about that. What happened? Oh, I was, I wish I would just have been uncomfortable with it. I literally thought this was a one-way ticket to hell because I grew up in the church with my dad being the preacher, preaching against sex, drugs, and rock and roll. So this was, you know, front and center as your one-way ticket to hell. And so I absolutely was against it, thought it was just absolutely not an answer for me. But when I found myself on the brink of literally planning my suicide, I had to do something.

because I also know that Jesus came and died for us to give us abundant life. And I was not living in that abundant life. I was in bondage like I had never been before. All right. And was this, was your depression and PTSD? Was it due to some trauma, some physical trauma, some familial trauma? Do you mind getting a little bit personal with this? Or is it just something like you were?

Absolutely. And I do get into a little bit of this also in the book, but I have a previous book called Journey to the Father's Heart where I tell my entire story. But in a nutshell, my father, being the Baptist preacher that he was, he also was leading a double life. And at home, he was molesting me. And he had been molesting me from the age of three. So at church, I would sit on the front row and see this pastor pointing his finger at people, telling them they're not allowed to drink. They're not allowed to go to the movies. They can't wear pants. They can't do all these things. But at home, I was experiencing something completely

different, but in my little girl brain, I could not put the word bad and dad in the same sentence because he was like my hero. And so I knew something had to be bad with me for this to be happening because I knew it was not right. I just didn't think it was something that he was causing that was making it bad. So I started developing all these thoughts and seeing myself in a very unhealthy way. And of course, I couldn't tell anyone. So keeping that inside just gave it more power because the secret is what gives it its strength. Once you talk about it and bring it to the light, that's when God heals it. So that was a whole journey for me from the time I first spoke about it all the way until

I wrote my book, Journey to the Father's Heart. But I had not gotten my full freedom. That is, of course, what Jesus came to die for us for. And in that, I did ministry. I did everything I knew to do and pouring my life into other people, which kept me very busy and kept my mind off of what was going on in my head. But when COVID hit and I couldn't, like, serve the rest of the country in the world, I was forced to look inward. And that is when basically all hell broke loose in my brain. And so I literally found myself planning my suicide.

All right. So this was during COVID time, you did this, right, Wendy? Yes, sir. Okay. So during COVID time, well, of course, I have to tell you, the COVID time broke a lot of people, you know, emotionally and psychologically back in the day. And I never want to forget that. So you knew you had a problem. So where did you do? Where did you go at that time? Now, what state do you live in, too, by the way? I live in Texas. But ironically, I came to your state because you guys were far ahead of us at that time. My very first psychedelic assistant therapy was not with Ibogaine. Ibegain is what I talk about a lot in my book because it is the tool that God used to heal me. I want to be clear, though, Bill, none of these, none of these psychedelics, none of these medicines that God clearly left us in

his creation because it is a shrub that grows in West Africa. None of these things is what healed me. Jesus is my healer. These are the things he used to heal me. Yeah, the mechanism, the mechanism, so speak, the tool, yeah, kind of being used. All right. Now, because I'll be on, I'll just be honest with you. It's like I've always been reticent about this whole thing because you have to understand, even though the organ has been ahead of the curve on the psychedelics, we've been on the curve of just getting every single kind of recreational or pseudo medicinal or whatever it is. Whatever we can do, hey, if we can stick it in our vein, we're supposed to have it, you know,

stick it in our vein or smoke it. So I was always distrustful of this. So tell me your experience as you went down here. You came to Oregon for the treatment. Was it southern Oregon? Did you go up north Portland area? Where'd you go? I honestly, geography is not my strong suit.

I don't know. I just knew in Oregon was where the treatment was offered. It was close to bend. I don't know where that is. Yeah, Central Oregon. Okay, fine. Okay. Okay.

Praise the Lord. Okay. So the reason I did that is because, you know, I began, is they call it the grandfather of psychedelics. At the time, I had never even heard of that. So there are other psychedelic therapies, psychedelic assistive therapies, that work on complex PTSD, treatment-resistant depression,

suicidal ideation, addiction, all of that. And if those things don't work, then Ibegaine is definitely, you know, the next step that I took. But even in my original introduction, and you asked me how I was led to it, I talked to a dear friend who had three soldiers that hurt sons, three soldiers who had come back from the wars and just, they were traumatized by all kinds of things.

And this therapy had helped them. And I knew them before, because they were family friends of mine. I knew they loved Jesus before. And then they had the therapy. And then their walk with the Lord after was so much better because it cleared their mind. You know, you hear the verse about being sober minded. Yes. Sober-minded is not just about don't drink alcohol. In fact, that's not at all what's even being referred to. It's talking about being clear-headed so that we can make rational decisions. And I was everything but sober-minded before I did the psychedelic-assisted therapy. And so what I again did for me was it cleared my mind so that I can be sober-minded and make rational decisions. Clearly anybody planning their suicide is not sober-minded. Yeah, yeah, you're not in good shape then. We certainly understand. Wendy Reese once again,

and she's experienced this for herself, and the author of this book just came out to early April, the Christian's guide to psychedelics, finding hope and healing through God's creation. And, of course, your Christian background actually made you reticent about going at first, right? Because playing back the tapes of Dad back of the day, right? All right. So what is the process? Are the injections where they smoke it? How did you actually take the drug?

How did it work? And which one did you just start with again? Well, let's first not call them a drug because I think that's, part of the stigma is that people, people say that they are drugs. But let's really look at that. If you go to have a heart surgery in the emergency room, they're probably going to give you a drug, right? And that drug, to put you to sleep, one of them is ketamine. Ketamine is something that it gives lots of people psychedelic visions. But you never hear a pastor saying, oh, you know, well, when you go and get heart replacement or heart surgery, do not allow them to give you this drug. No, that would be very

and compassionate and not even biblical. So the bottom line is, is that because of the verbiage and the stigma that is tied to psychedelics, that's where a lot of this fear-based thinking comes from. So the things that I used at the beginning were different, you know, like I used ketamine, I used MDMA, I used psilocybin. Are they pills? Are they injections? Well, ketamine can be an injection.

Ketamine can be a nasal spray. ketamine can be a trokey. There's an IV. There's all kinds of different ways that you can take ketamine. Silocybin can be given in chocolate. It can be given in a pill form. There's many different ways. And then psilocybin is, you know, just people boil it.

People eat it raw. People do all kinds of stuff. Mine were pills. But the ibogaine was also pills. So ibupin comes from a shrub. And they extract out of the iBoga root, the ibogaine alkalo. And that was given to me an appeal.

And that for me was what was the most profound. It is literally where Jesus came. And I saw him in a way. I've never seen him before. I used to be afraid of him. I saw him through the eyes of my dad. And I saw Jesus as my friend that was keeping God from smiting me, you know, to use a biblical term.

And Jesus came. God sent Jesus to me in my Ibegain journey. He sent Jesus to rescue me and to reintroduce me. and to reintroduce me to my true father in heaven. All right. Wendy, Wendy, I want to brass hacks here, when you first started, when you've got your Ibo gain, and this is like the new it therapy in PTSD and working this. This is what everyone's been talking about.

And I'm just trying to learn more about it. And, of course, you took it. So I'm going to take your experience. That's a good marker. What is it like when you would take Ibogaine, was it? it a Timothy Leary, you know, kind of high type thing? I'm thinking like old Moody Blues album is back for the 1960s and 70s and were off there and flying off to the astro plane, or was it, or was it you wanted to kill yourself and then you didn't, let's say. How did it actually

work? What did it change in your thought process? I hope you don't mind. Yeah. No, no, no. For me, everybody's is different. Let me start by saying that. But for me, I had probably a three to four hour life review, which was in Disney animation mode. Like it was colors I had never seen before. It was clearer than any, like, because my, I have bad eyes. So when I'm even looking at my husband, he's still kind of blurry. But this was like something a blind man could have seen because you're not seeing it with your eyes.

You're seeing it with your heart's eyes. So it's in your mind because you have an eye mask on, you have headphones on. I have my worship music going. So I had very, you know, godly things going into my brain. and everything that was shown to me was my life. And some was good, some was bad. None of it was scary. I did see, I have actually had five sexual perpetrators in my life all out of the church, or from the church.

They were all from the church, my dad, my stepdad, and then several other people that were authority figures over me. But God showed me every one of them. And it was a healing, like I can't explain to you. When you're in the presence of God, things that you think, oh, if I see God, I'm asking, I'm asking him this and I'm asking him this. None of that mattered. None of that. I don't know if you've ever researched people that have had near-death experiences.

Well, the reason I asked you that because I had one. I almost drowned about 25, 30 years ago. And I had that life review type situation that, you know, at first I'm thinking, boy, this is some kind of weird woo-woo thing. But I realized differently later. And the life, but it was compressed into about 20 seconds. So it was really weird, you know, how that worked. but so I find that I find that fascinating so it was you definitely took a trip but it was like a

spiritual trip from the sounds of it it was it was literal in the presence of God and mine mine was 22 hours so it was an amazing I didn't I did not want it to end Bill I can't explain to you a lot of people don't have that kind of experience like they're glad to be out of it and then they have this gray day. And then, you know, I'm like, if they would have let me go again, I would have taken eight more pills and had round two. I was so not happy when it was over because it was so orderly. God showed me so much.

And then he gave me insight into what he was showing me. And then he gave me instruction on the insight he was giving me. And it was just like, I felt like I had just been at a meeting at the tent like Moses was. And I thought, Lord, we can do this every day. And we can accomplish a lot because I have never felt. so more alive than I was right then and there. And it's, you know, it's been over a year. April 8th is when my book came out.

That was the one year anniversary of my flood dose that I took. Yeah. So you're a true believer on this then, and I'm hearing it just seems to be exploding in popularity and now will be more. So I guess, you know, even just talking to you and finding out how rough it was before, I think I'm going to have to open my heart a little bit more to the people that do this. because like I said, I've just kind of kept my head and heart shut on this. I'm thinking, oh, come on.

This is just another excuse to get some magic mushrooms in you or something. That's the way I was actually looking at it here. Well, Bill, as a believer, I think that is called discernment. And that is what you have to have when you're going into anything that's like this. And I think that's wisdom. I don't think that anybody who is looking for an excuse just to, you know, what can I shoot up in my veins or what can I smoke today. That is not what my book calls for. It's not what this movement calls for. It's certainly not what

Governor Perry and Brian Hubbard are calling for. It is for the therapeutic dosage under the right supervision by a clinician who actually knows what they're doing and is there to help you not drive off the bridge. All right. Where can people find out more about the Christian's guide to psychedelics? Where do you go? They can go to Amazon and type in my name, which is spelled Wendy Reese, W-E-N-D-I. Last name is Reese, R-E-E-E-S. There's no E on the end of that. All right.

Final question I would have for you is that you said that, you know, you enjoyed this journey, this medicinal journey so much, this therapeutic journey that you almost wish it didn't end. Do people ever get hooked on the process? Do you know? I will tell you what Brian Hubbard says to that question. if you enjoy being semi-paralyzed, laying on the ground, throwing up for 12 hours, then you just knock yourself right out. There is absolutely nothing addictive whatsoever about Ibogaine. For most people, they do not have the blissful experience that I had.

They may not throw up for 12 hours, but it is not a party drug on any level. It is very intense. And that's why you have to be monitored by your heart. the doctors that are in the room with you. All right. Well, this is a big thing. I know that a lot of traumatically affected soldiers have been dealing with this kind of therapy. And it's now being opened up to the greater United States here through the executive order and more.

I really appreciate you share the story. And it's not exactly what I was expecting to hear, but that's a good thing. It really is, Wendy. Well, thank you, Bill. I appreciate your open-mindedness. And I would encourage you to read the book because I was right where you were before I. I started this. All right.

Wendy Reese, the Christian's guide to psychedelics. We'll put the information up there. And thank you so much for the talk. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Wendy Reese.

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and his wife, Colette, loves Southern Oregon so much they raised their family there. Called Jared today at 541 772-7653. Talk to an actual human being or on the web. Reach out to Jared Hockinson at 541772.com. The Outdoor Report is every Friday morning just past seven on the Bill Meyer show. The Outdoor Report on KMED and the Jukex 993 covers recreational opportunities and is powered by Oregon Truck and Auto Authority. Gear up your rig for work or play off Eilish Road on Airway,

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And then digging into some local politics with former state senator Herman Berchiger. What happened it last night? voters forum, the candidates forum. Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention this yesterday. You know that the Oregonian, the Oregonian, Oregon Lives editorial board came out there and they endorsed Christine Drazen to be the Republican candidate. I thought that was interesting. And I'm going to ask you if that helped her or hurt her.

I don't know. Although she does appear to be the one that is polling the highest right now. Got to tell you. I tell you, Ed and Chris and all the other people that are. trying to battle up there. You've got to start taking some swings. And I don't know why. I mean, I've heard very few attacks on fellow Republicans. And it's not that you want to attack your fellow Republican, but you have to make yourself stand out from the pack. And what it? Are people worried about having to work with Christine after the fact? You know, you go back into

the Senate or you go back into the House. I don't know. Maybe Herman and I will talk about that more too. All right. But what happened at the Voters Forum? Who did well? Who didn't? We'll kick it around next. Jackson County. Your vote counts. This May 19th primary election process will be exactly the same as prior years. There have been no changes to how we conduct elections in Oregon. Democratic and Republican parties will use this election to nominate their candidates for the general election this November. Please remember that your ballot will only contain the candidates and measures for which you are eligible to vote. Ballots must be postmarked or deposited at an official ballot dropbox no later than 8 p.m. on May 19th. No postage is required to mail your ballot.

Track your ballot as it leaves your hand when you mail or deposit by visiting Oregonvotes.gov slash my vote. That's Oregonvotes.gov slash my vote. And don't forget to sign your ballot return envelope to secure your vote. Hello, I'm Chris Walker, your Jackson County Clerk. For more information, visit Jackson's... County OR.gov slash elections. Your county clerk's office, making sure your vote counts. Do you remember as a kid writing, wash me in the dust on the back of your parents' car?

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specializing in foundation repair and replacement. Get on solid ground. Visit Millet Construction.com. KMED News, here's what's going on. Governor Kotech signed SB 1501 into law yesterday. That will lead to a $600 million renovation of Portland's Motor Center. The moves being done to keep the trailblazers in Portland. Essentially the state, meaning we taxpayers, are paying to be partial owners and managers

of the aging facility. Asante asking the state for emergency permission to buy the Southern Oregon Surgery Center, which is across the street from RRMC in Medford. Asante already owns a piece of the center, which has been in financial trouble lately. According to the Ashland Chronicle, the Oregon Health Authority has been dragging its feet to give approval for the sale because of what they say is Asante's non-cooperation regarding providing financial information about the closure of Assante's Ashland Hospital operation. Iran war tensions leading to another spike in oil and fuel costs, AAA reporting in Jackson and Josephine counties, you'll pay an average of around 523 for a gallon of regular gas,

diesel about six and a quarter. If you're traveling I-5 around Ashland and sees smoke in the hills, no worries. The Sisku Mountains Ranger District is conducting a couple of prescribed burns near the Ashland watershed. A total of 40 acres will be treated today. And another program to help Medford residents reduce wildfires is coming soon. It's wood chipper days. Residents can take branches and limbs up to eight inches in diameter and get them chipped for free.

That's going on Wednesday and Thursday from 9 to 2 at Fitchner Mainw-Waring Park and Donahue Fronmeyer Park. Bill Meyer, KMed E News. This hour of the Bill Meyer show is sponsored by Glacier Heating and Air, making sense of the heating and air business. Along with pleasant spring weather, you know there's a long, hot, hot, Rogue Valley. summer coming up that can stress your cooling system. Glacier heating and air, your local independent train dealer, reminds you the best time to have your AC system

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Don't Portland, Southern Oregon. What works for Portland politicians doesn't work here, and I won't let them force it on us. I'm Duane Younger, your Oregon State representative from Josephine County in Grants Pass. In Salem, Southern Oregon is a minority, and that's why my most important job I have isn't passing more mandates. It's being a strong voice, pumping the brakes on bad legislation. I help leave the fight to protect your right to vote on the gas tax, because politicians shouldn't raise your cost of living without your convenience. That fight is saving the average Southern Oregon family about $500 a year. Next term, my job is clear to protect taxpayers, hold Salem accountable, and keep more of

your money in your pocket. I'm Dwayne Yonker, and I always stand up for Josephine County at home and in Salem. I'd be honored to earn your vote. Paid for Yonker for State Representative Pack ID 23071. Millet Construction has been a general contractor for 40 years. For the last 20 years, they've specialized in foundation repair and replacement. If you have sloping floors, cracks and walls, and windows and doors that are hard to open, you have a foundation problem that's only getting worse.

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and you're waking up with the Bill Myers Show. Former State Senator Herman Berchiger rejoins the program. We talk in noodle around with various political opining and a bunch more each Tuesday at about this time. Herman, welcome back. How are you, sir? Beautiful day in Southern Art. Absolutely. Beautiful day, though.

Hey, you think that we can get to the point where progressives are going to stop taking pot shots at Republicans? I think we can make that happen in our lifetime? No. Okay. All right. Hey, listen, our lifetime, that's, you know, think of that, Bill, think of that statement in our lifetime. I know. You know, we're at the, you know, I always tell people is take a tape measure and pull it out to

to the age, let's say 80, okay? Yeah. Put your finger on 80 and then put your finger on your age and look at that tape measure. here. Most of that runway for you and I is behind us. Yeah, I got, I got 16 years, hopefully. It's a good years, right? Who knows? There you go. Okay, let's talk about something positive. All right. Let's do that. What happened in yesterday's voters forum or the candidates forum with Chamber of Commerce in Joe County putting that on?

Let's just lump them all together because we got time and shortage, and let's talk about some of the highlights. Most of the candidates, not all, but most of the candidates. of them are living in Alice in Wonderland, okay? And they just don't understand how things work. We have a few of them that do. But, you know, and that's mostly because they're naive and they don't have the experience. They haven't done the job, and they, they doesn't know how it works. So let's, I made a couple quick notes. I'm not going to say who said what, because I would like people to go to the chamber website and watch it for themselves. Okay. Okay. So, One of the candidates says, oh, our airport is so valuable.

It's one of the biggest economic drivers we have to Josephine County. No, no, no, it's not. We don't have any commercial air service out there. All the monies from the rents and activities on the airport that are collected just go into running the airport. There's about four or five small businesses out there. But it pays for itself, essentially, is what it does. it does not pay for it does not really no the only thing that that's paid for that airport are taxpayer dollars mostly from federal aviation grants okay okay all right so yeah there's not enough there you know

and i've been around that airport since 1980 i served on the airport board as chairman for like 15 years and that's when we started taking these federal grants and you know i can remember back in the in the late 80s thing, you know, because every federal grant has a string attached, okay? What do's and don't, you can do this, you can't do that. And you know, how you conduct business on the airport and how you can do this. So, you know. Well, there's a high cost. There's a high cost to taking a grant sometimes, in other words.

A lot of restrictions. Oh, absolutely. But that, so when you say, if we had to depend on activity, out there to pay for that airport, it still be a dirt strip. Okay? Because a Grant's past, Josephine County's kind of bedroom community to Fer Medford, and you're never going to compete with Rogue Valley International Airport. Now, do I love our airport?

Do I love what we have? Absolutely. I think, I think, you know. Hey, hey, hey, wait, wait, wait. No, I get that, but wait a minute. I had this news release. It came out. I saved it about three weeks ago.

That's when it came out there. And it came from a PR guy. group here. It says, Grants Pass is quietly becoming Southern Oregon's most surprising adventure town. New trail systems, national cycling events, rogue river adventures in a rising food culture are putting Southern Oregon's unassuming Rivertown on the radar. This is from a PR firm. So it must be right. Okay. Yeah. Well, like I said, it's all feel good stuff. Okay. Yeah. So, all right, let's move on in that. We have to, all these general statements drive me crazy. with politicians. We have to encourage business.

Really? Okay. How do we do that in the state of Oregon that has the highest taxes, the grocery seized tax, and the burdens of associated payroll caught, all the different, you know, Oregon paid leave, this, that. Let me ask you this question, Bill. Okay. I'm a business in California. Oh, I hate California. I can't do it. I'm going to move my business out of California. Are we going to Oregon? Well, if I want to be punched in the face slightly less, maybe. You know, California, I think, is maybe just punching you in the, well, in the sex area, I think,

is where they like to punch businesses, you know, that's what they like to do. And maybe in Oregon, they just punch you in the mouth a little bit. So you have to be willing to, you know, take a few punches down there. So my advice to these politicians is instead of concentrating on, you know, encouraging business to come here. Maybe the first thing we need to do is try to figure out why they're all leaving. Well, has Travis actually ever talked about Travis Borsma ever told anyone really why he left? He seemed to be very cagey, like he didn't want to cause hurt feelings on the way out. Well, because of my relationship, right, close relationship with Travis going back, you know,

decades, the Bersman's been neighbors forever. I really can't get into a lot of detail. Okay. But I will just say that moving out of Oregon probably worked into his model a lot more. Now, I would also say that he loves Oregon. He loves Grants Pass. He loves his community. And he probably could have stayed if it didn't get as bad as it got, okay? Does that also include that the flying lark would have been approved like it should have been, in my opinion? Losing $51 or $54 million probably couldn't help. Okay. That kind of tells you how much you are liked or not liked, as the case might be.

He didn't have the political juice. He once called me, and I will say this, that when he decided to move out. Now, when he left, that's a $25 million payment. roll that left grants pass roughly. That's serious. $45 million a year. All right. Now,

that money was turned around in Josephine County. How many times? That's gone. Nobody's talking about that. Okay? Where, you know, that's a lot of money because that turn around, those people that get those,

you know, that gets that earnings here, then they go and spend it, and then that company, those people own that business spend it. You know what I mean? It turns over multiple times. So it's gone.

But anyway. Next thing. I will work tiredlessly to put the homeless back to work and create jobs for them. That's why they're homeless. They don't want to work. Someone said, someone actually said that. Really? Yes.

Yes. Okay. Okay. Exactly how. I mean, are we going to put them in some painful chains and put them on the chain gang of some sort? Or, I mean, what? Maybe that's what they're advocating. So, Bill, you just touched on my pet peeves as they make these statements and then they never tell you how they're going to execute them.

But it sounds good, right? Oh, it sounds warm and fuzzy. Mm-hmm. Okay. We can partner with the city and other government agencies to bring back manufacturing to Grads Pass, Sarah Josephine County. Really? How come we're not doing that now? How come the businesses are leaving?

Did they do it before and stop doing it, Herman? No. You know, the one thing about being old is you can reflect, okay? So when I first entered the workforce here, of course, it was a timber industry. We had five mills in town here you put your application. And one day you go to five mills, or you could go a different route. We had Linton Industries here. I don't know if you remember that, Bill.

No, I don't. Remind me. Yeah, they were a defense con. Huge defense contractor. It's where Mountain View gems are. Oh, that's right. Okay. Yeah. All right. Okay. They're gone. See ya. Bye. And then we had some electronic firms here. So you could take in one day, a young person can run around and put their applications in all these businesses.

And usually by the end of the day, you'd have a job. So what changed between that and now? Now, I understand the timber issue here is a much larger, much larger issue. That's political. Right. Yep, very political. Letting industries, I don't know why they left. I don't know.

But I will tell you when you're a business, look at Jedwell left. They were a long-time company in Oregon. They're out of here. Nike's going to be out of here. Why do you think, you know, Phil Knight has tried to save so many times. Look how much money he's given to Republicans and independents for governor. He keeps thinking, oh, we're going to turn the corner. We're going to turn the corner.

We're going to turn the corner. But they're not. Let me tell you something. Nike's leaving. They just laid off a whole bunch of people. Intel. Intel said they were going to start to diversify to other areas of the country when I was in the Senate. That means they're leaving, okay?

You see, those should be alarm bells that are clanging within the Gover's Mansion, shouldn't it? They're not. They think that small business, you know, pizza parlors and that kind of, they think that that can sustain our economy. And the way the Democrat mind works, look at, look what's going on in Portland. And they don't even talk about it. Maybe if we don't talk about it, we don't look, it'll just go away. You know, there was that liberal group that I've occasionally talked to their people.

It's a liberal think tank, Oregon Center for Public Policy. And they actually put out a podcast the other day. had a chance to listen to, but it was a, they were talking about how, how business, that when people, Republicans are saying bad things about the Oregon business climate, they're not really telling the truth and that, you know, it's a better deal for businesses in Oregon than they think. And they're, you know, saying that, you know, they, they only pay 80% of the taxes compared with the benefits that they get from the state of Oregon. And I kid you not. That's what a liberal think tank is thinking about this. And I don't know who they're talking to. So another one, it says,

oh, taxes, you know, we need, we might have to raise taxes here in Josephine County. They're just going to be small increases. Okay. Well, that person's candidacy is dead. Yes, ten small increases makes one big increase, Bill. That's right. Okay. Now, we'll always talk about, you know, Josephine County, it's the base is 58 cents or whatever it is. It's a small amount and everything. But when you put all the other levies and RCC and the schools and all the different districts, law enforcement district, jail levy and everything, all those little small increases add up to about six bucks.

It's not a little bit amount of that. That's for sure. Herman, I want to ask you, how did Seth and Dwayne Yonker do? Well, Dwayne's very, very knowledgeable because, you know, he's got the upper hand. He's lived it. Okay. He understands that he's lived it. And he's a conservative.

He's, you know, him and I walk on the same pathway. All right? We're worried, you know, we're just like, we believe, instead of taking money away from people through taxes, let them keep their own money and let them invest it into the economy. So that's the way we look at it. The Democrat Party says, no, we're going to take the money away, and then we're going to decide where the best the money into the economy. Okay? So it's just two major different ways of thinking.

All right. What about Seth? What did he say last night? Yeah, he's very factual and everything. Seth, Seth is a very smooth talker and everything, but he talks in generalities because he hasn't walked the talk, maybe. hasn't lived in those shoes. He doesn't understand how it, so he doesn't have the ability to talk in, you know, in very detailed. So, yeah, they did okay, but, you know, he's a nice young man.

I've met with him for a couple hours, you know, early in the campaign and everything. And, you know, I hope he, you know, he sticks around and learns a little more. I think that will be very helpful. But Dwayne's much more. knowledgeable of how it goes. Okay. All right. And, you know, that's why incumbents always have the upper hand is because you can see what they're doing. You've been watching what they're saying.

And then a newcomer comes into the show. And you don't really know nothing about him except what he tells you, okay? Or he or she, what they tell you. Oh, another one, tourism. This is one of my favorites. Oh, my God. If I have heard that so many times in my political career, both in the Senate, oh, more tourism, more tourism, more tourism.

Let me ask you this question, Bill. Yeah. I'm a family of four in Wisconsin, okay? I want to go to the west. I want to go. You want to go to the where? Now, your phone cut out. What?

The Western United States for two weeks vacation, never been to the West. Mm-hmm. Why would they pick Josephine County? Hmm. I don't know. It could be, well, it's good restaurants there and maybe some nice wineries and things like that. And there's the river. Of course, there's the river. And the river, of course, is a big tourism draw to an extent, isn't it? To an extent. Okay. So everything below Graves Creek's by permit, so you can't put no more people there. We're maxed out. So you're not going to increase that. Okay. You're not going to increase that. So then you have the upper road from Graves Creek up. How much is that?

really an attraction, okay? You have the Oregon Caves. How much is that really attraction? You look at the numbers, they're not as impressive as you think they are. Yeah, that is out of the way, too. It's a real commitment to go to the Oregon Caves when you go there. Right, right. Other than that, we don't have any lakes. I mean, we got Lake Selmaic, but that's just kind of a big pond. So we don't have any of the Cascade Lakes. We don't have crater Lake. We don't have scheme, you know. And I'm not trying to be negative. I'm trying to be really. What, okay, so tourism is, but it makes up less than 8%. And I don't know how to increase that, okay, because you're competing with all these other places in the Western state.

Well, what ends up happening? Well, you're talking about the same thing that, well, the city of Medford, as an example, talks about. Build an $85 million ball stadium, and then they will come, you know, that kind of thing, that sort of situation. Of course, I don't know. Well, maybe Medford can make it work better than Grants Pass could. Maybe it's just a little bit larger. A little bit larger. Maybe there's enough magnetism.

Well, it's quite a bit larger. And Josephine County, ever since we've lost our natural resource industry here, we're basically a bedroom community to Medford. So, you know, these are some of the, they're just, they're real things. People say, oh, you're a gloom and doomer. No, I'm not a gloom and domer. No, it's called, you have to see clearly. and I'm thinking of like, you know, an old, like a Clint Eastwood line from an old movie or something like that.

Like, you know, places got to know its limitations. You know? Yeah, we're not going to compete with Ben because we don't have Malhood. Yeah. Can't do it. Sorry. All right. Okay.

Let me shift it then to a different race right now, the gubernatorial race. And I noticed that yesterday, a Senate bill 1501 signed by Governor Tina Kotech. $600 million, $350 million probably in state bonding authority that's going to be used to bail out the trailblazers. Why did so many Republicans end up signing onto that deal, Herman? I'm talking about, you know, Christine Drazen voted for that. Ed Deal voted for that. Robinson did not vote for it. Dwayne Yonker did not vote for it.

Senator Lenthicum did not go for it, you know, and a handful of other Republicans. Why do they go to taxpayer dollars to bail out the trailblazers, you know, the billionaire new owner of that team? Could you tell you explain that to me, that process? Because they're sucked into buying votes just like the Democrats do. And they believe that they can buy votes with taxpayer dollars. And, you know, it's just I'm a Milton Freeman guy. I'm like, let the economy do what the economy does, let people have more of their own money. money, let them invest it, how they see fit.

I think that the people should be, I think the people should be completely irritated to their core. That $600 million from the state of Oregon is going to be. Add that to the convention center down there that the people paid for. And I'm surprised that the state had $600 million of bonding around because they're always bonded to the limit. That must mean they paid off some bonds to bond. See, if you get too many bonds out, then you lose your. grading, okay, your AAA grading. You get too much out there. And when you lose your AAA grading, you play more interest on the bonds. And so anyways, so I'm just kind of like surprised. They must have

paid off bonds to have those to be able to re-bond. Either that or they're going to step bond it over a period of time. And they're not, that's the news hasn't reported that where they, they issue some bonds. And then when other bonds are paid off, they'll issue more. And when other bonds are paid off, issue more. I don't know how it's structured. I don't, I didn't read the bill. I don't know what's going on. All right. Final question I have for you. Is there any fighting to differentiate themselves coming out in the Republican field out there? Because you know it's going to be Tita Kotech. You're going to be going up against Tita Kotech. I know Pauline came out from Nelson saying that Christine Drazen is the top one, double what Ed Deal and what Chris Dudley have. But I don't hear about anybody

swinging at each other, do you? Well, first of all, Nelson, Nelson, isn't Nielsen. Nielsen is the, you know, countrywide. That's the, the Nielsen. Yeah, the ratings, the rating system. Right. Okay, that's not Nelson. Nelson is, is a lobbyist in Salem,

whose primary job is lobbying business, too. So, always remember that. Okay. But anyways, I, you know, the way I look at, that it is, you know, I'm a numbers guy. Remember what Brady Adams taught me? You have to learn how to count. You've got to be a good. You've got to know how to count. You know, I hear people say, well, Democrats are fed up with Tina Coat. Are they fed up enough where they won't vote for? Okay, Bill? It's just like our Democrats, or our Republicans here fed up enough with the feckless Republican Party approach to many things that they're going to vote for Democrats? I don't think so. No, you're not.

No, no, no, no. So, I, you know, the last time, you know, I would, we talked about it last week, I said, Drazen has the next name recognition, and sure enough, here's the poll come out, and guess what? There it is. Okay. You know, I didn't get to look at the cross tabs of the polling. If I don't look at cross tabs of the polling, I don't, I don't take it for granted, okay? Yeah.

So, but think of this, Bill, we had a spoiler last time that drawed off votes and we couldn't beat Cotech. That being Betsy Johnson, that being Betsy Johnson, right. Right, right. How are we going to beat her in a head-to-head? And the other thing you have to look at, she raised $30 million a lot of. go around, most of it coming from outside the state of Oregon. So there you have it. You know, I...

Okay, let's say that that's true, and it's still a, it's a, we know it's a high lift, but why is there no fight? This is the part which is just, it's flummoxing me as, as someone who's observing politics here in the state of Oregon, because if you don't fight right now and make the case on why you're a better candidate, you never get a chance to take on Tina Kotech. And I don't understand the silence that's going on out there. Are they afraid of going after each other that it comes back to Biden later on? I mean, what? Well, what they're afraid about is they're afraid to start fighting. Then they're labeled as a conservative. And then when you

go into the general election in November, there's no way in hell a Democrat will ever move for you. So that's the... That's why they do this stuff. Okay? They want to be perceived in November is a moderate. I'm moderate. I look at both sides. I'll reach across the aisle.

Okay, that's how they want to be perceived. Yeah, the problem is, though, is that you're dealing with that, that reaching across that other aisle, there's a good percentage on that other side of the aisle that's bad guano crazy. All right? Oh, I think in Oregon, you reach across the aisle too often, and you get your hands bit off. Yeah.

So, you know, people say, oh, bad chigger, he's just, oh, bad, oh, bad, oh, bad, oh, bad, he's just so crap. Yeah. Well, you know what? I'm tired of taking 60% of my income and giving it back to government. If you're fine with that. Volfertina Kaltek. Yeah.

I'm not. Yeah. I'm not. It just, look, I've been involved in politics now 20 years. And in 20 years, the budget of the state of Oregon has doubled. And most of that is because of tax increases. Always remember, if you want to know what the true tax of a government is, it's how much they spend because you can't say it any other ways.

Every dollar that they have to spend, they had to take from somebody. So when you say the Oregon budget, Bionian budget is $190 million, they had to go and take $190 million. I think you meant $190 billion, didn't you? A billion, I'm sorry, $190 billion. They had to take that from the citizen. That's the true tax.

And that's the true cost. It's simple. You don't have to go through all the paperwork. You just look at that one number. I used to say it all the time. oh, we're in the next two years, you know, but when I was in there, it was like 160, oh, we're only going to tax 160 billion. That's pretty good.

Yeah. Oh, I'd piss off the governor when I would say that. But that is the true tax. So then everybody that's listening, you've got a $190 billion, $190 billion budget for the next two years. Get on your calculator, divide that by $4.3. million people, and hopefully you're sitting down when you run the numbers. That's per person. All right, Herman.

Yeah. I always appreciate the talk here. I'm still praying here while the ballots are going to drop pretty soon that there be some fight shown in the Republican candidates because, you know, otherwise it becomes a fait accompli. And, you know, if you're not willing to fight for your life right now as a Republican candidate, you're certainly not going to fight for your life against Tina Kotech politically. That's the way I kind of look at it, at least.

You do it right now or forever hold your peace, really. Talk to you next week. All right? You take care, Bill. Have a good weekend. I certainly will. I have to watch that. I have to watch that forum myself there and see who said what.

All right. KMED, KMED, H.D. H.1. Eagle Point, Medford, KBXG grants pass. K-290AF. Rove River, K-294 ASchlands, where you are. Picture this.