Bill Meyer Show Podcast - Sponsored by Clouser Drilling www.ClouserDrilling.com - 06-17-25_TUESDAY_6AM

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

06-17-25_TUESDAY_6AM

The Bill Meyer Show podcast is sponsored by Clauser Drilling. They've been leading the way in southern Oregon well drilling for over 50 years. Find out more about them at Clauser Drilling dot com. Here's Bill Meyer. Welcome to Pebble in Your Shoe Tuesday. Hope all is well for you. If you have a Pebble, go ahead and jump on 7705633. Maybe you have a boulder in the boot, too.

Could be a big deal. I had just a minor one yesterday. Kind of fun. I was getting my my mother has a in the booth too. Could be a big deal. I had just a minor one yesterday, kind of fun. I was getting my, my mother has a, has a real love when she needs a treat meal. I go to McDonald's and I get her small hamburger and a milkshake. So I ended up pulling into the McDonald's over by By Mart in Medford, pulling there and you're in the, and you're in the shoot, so to speak. And you get in there and you do the order

and you have all the cars in front of you and it was a busy afternoon. You get in there. I'm sorry, but the milkshake machine is broken. It's just like shades of the COVID thing in which nobody seems to be able to keep a milkshake or ice cream machine running. Remember during the COVID thing, you couldn't get anything, you know,

Sonic was a ice cream place in name only, or whatever that, and people are like, oh man, you just can't get people to fix these machines and they're just crazy. And it's been several days like that. And so, well gosh, I'm already kind of stuck. You're committed, right? Committed, right? And there's no way to get out of this. And so I think the pebble in my shoe is that there should be an escape ramp on all drive-throughs. I ended up backing out of it. I ended up backing out. I'm in the van again, so I back out. There was nobody behind me until I started trying to back up and

then they were trying to come in and then they saw and they're probably thinking I'm a jerk. You're backing out. You should have just stayed in the line and gone through. It's like, no, I was tired. I want to go home, you know, at that point. But yeah, you're a prisoner in the drive-through line. What do you think about that? Escape route or maybe just a little trap door that would let you exit out to a Biddle Road or McAndrews. I think that would work. I'd be okay with that. So that's a very minor pebble in my shoe. Other than that, things have been fine, I guess. Crazy time. Wonderful story. Very interesting. I don't know if this is a wonderful story. I guess it must be because it's progress and anything about

progress. I know Charles Hugh Smith, that author I talked to a couple of weeks ago, saying that one of the biggest fake jobs that we have convinced ourselves of is progress is always good, it's just always onward and upward, there's never any bad side to progress. But there is talk now, this is a story Damien Mann wrote in the Rogue Valley Times, that Medford is looking at putting in a medical school for doctors and this would be supported by OHSU and we end up getting us some kind of a training ground for aspiring doctors and apparently you know there still is a shortage of this and also a shortage of medical schools. For a long time it's

been figured that well keeping the number of medical schools small has been able to keep the salaries of doctors high, you know, making it tough to enter but in last week's a study session, City Council voicing support for developing a memorandum of understanding with OHU and they would create a local campus and develop a residency program for doctors at local hospitals. Medical school proposals supported by OHSU would provide a training ground for aspiring doctors complete with a cadaver lab. Oh, so there'd be a cadaver lab. Is that where we take the fentanyl, the fentanyl homeless deaths and nobody claims the body and it ends

up good? I only have kidding. Well, you have to wonder about that. But so what do you think about that? Medical school in Medford? My thing is if there's going to be a medical school in Medford and it's something which OHSU is supporting, what are the details about things such as transgender surgery for the kids? Because remember, OHSU is all in on that stuff.

They make bank on that. Tons and millions of dollars. Would that be part of it? I'm hoping that the city of Medford would ask about this. You know, what kind of exactly medical school are we looking at? Are we looking at this would be a gender-affirming care kind of doctor thing, or are we talking about just getting more MDs and general practitioners into the system? I don't know but I think it's a very interesting situation talking about 50,000 square foot no 100,000 square foot

medical school. Previously the City Council Damien Wright approved a $100,000 study to develop the proposal, work with OHSU and other stakeholders. Of course, every time I hear the term stakeholders, my eyes glaze over because I can see some kind of weird consensus process. See, normally there should be no such thing in government talk as stakeholders. There's either taxpayers or owners of something, And then there's everybody else, I guess. Stakeholders. See, stakeholders always remind me of people who claim to own your business.

Well, I'm a stakeholder, but you don't own this business. Oh, but I'm a stakeholder because I use your business. You know, that kind of thing, that kind of thought process. Well, anyway, still it's interesting. I would be curious what kind of doctors would be coming out of this and who would actually be in charge of...because one of the challenges, the biggest challenges that we're facing right now is that the medical industry is staffed mostly by American Medical Association drones, the ones that were locking us down and saying

safe and effective. And what do you mean you disagree with safe and effective? I'm going to fire you as a patient. Go away. What kind of medical school is it going to be? Dr. Jane Orient, MD, who's there talking about medical freedom and a patient-doctor relationship, a true patient-doctor relationship, or is it yet another pill pushing, big pharmaceutical, never get outside of the box sort of thing? That would be the question I would wonder. But we could talk about that if you wonder. But still, the thought we have a medical school here, there just aren't many

medical schools. While there are none in Oregon. We'd really be the only medical school. So that could be really, really cool. All right. Something else that we forgot to mention yesterday because we're just busy on other things. And Commissioner John West, former Commissioner John West in Josephine County ended up having not one. I know that the newspapers and the local media were reporting that John West had one ethics complaint dismissed. It was actually two. There were two and they only reported on one of them. And the one that ended up being that was dismissed they were talking about it the current HR director over in Jackson County is the one that that filed it over real estate concerns. Yes, Scofield. Yes, Scofield

ended up... he's the former former Josephine County HR director. So there it is another two ethics complaints down. Remember how Herman talked about that the system is being weaponized, the Ethics Commission investigations are being weaponized in which all you have to do is just file it, they end up getting dismissed, but yet the media is able to report, John West has several ethics complaints open against him. And then they always end up getting dismissed. Yeah, sure seems that way. I don't think many of them have stuck. Although apparently there may be an

ethics complaint that might stick with the Grants Pass City Council because the Grants Pass City Council did admit that they violated a public meetings law when they denied the Daily Courier the opportunity to go in on some of that salary talk. They admitted it though they fell on their sword over that I don't know where it goes from this point. It's 18 minutes after 6 7 7 0 5 6 3 3 pebble in your shoe Tuesday. Hi good morning you got a pebble? Hey oh god you just gave me two more teeth out of cave junction. Hey Keith how are you this this morning? Oh I'm staring at

taillights and I am 20 miles from my delivery and it says 43 minutes I'm in Seattle. Okay here's my family yesterday, my driver's license after 10 years needs to be renewed. I know this. A week ago I go into DMV and I've got 75 people in Grants Fest, 75 people in front of me at 12 noon and by 2.30 I had 40 people plus reserves and appointments. Wow. I walked out and went and got an appointment. Did it all good on the internet. Yesterday in Roseburg, I arrived an hour early and I met with a very nice lady that says the entire state DMV computer system has crashed. Yeah, they talked about it being a problem with a partner,

has crashed. Yeah, they talked about it being a problem with a partner, which means some private sector business that screwed up royally. One hour late, well, about 1130, when one of the people... The crowd inside was very nice. We were chuckling a little bit about this and that a lot about, under our breath, the incompetency of the system. But when it was announced that Grants Pass's DMV had just closed for the day, I got back in my semi truck and continued on up to this wonderful event. And so, you know, it just, now I'm going to go to the DMV an hour before eight o'clock after I make another appointment. Okay.

And wait for my ticket to paradise. And I might be there eight fricking hours. Excuse my, oh, I didn't say it. No, it's okay. Eight hours. Yeah. Well, do you ever get the... It's like the going to the DMV apparently has now turned into like the never-ending Grover's line. You know, you take the number at the Grover's and you get pretty quick service, but it's not that way the DMV usually, is it? I love going to the Cave Junction DMV that does not exist anymore.

And there was one booth, one lady. She was wonderful. She's retired now. Many of us from the area know her. I don't know her name. But the point was that you'd have three to five, three to ten people in front of you at any one time. And there was a nice human scale to that.

It's interesting that I'm on the alerts when the DMV has problems, and I can't tell you, there's almost a day that doesn't go by in which some DMV office in the state of Oregon seems to be closed or opening late. And you know one of the reasons, one of the biggest reasons they give for not opening, Keith? No. Not enough people have shown up. Well you know, we go on Monday when there were all these 80 people in front of me at noon, there's like I think eight stations and three people working. They had a conversation with the people at Roseburg and the guys and gals behind the windows were very pleasant, very polite. Yeah, I know. The people in the DMV are fine, but you're right. It is fascinating with such

a load that eight stations and only three workers. But that's what I was getting at here. Every time I'll get notices from the state of Oregon, it's like, we don't have enough workers here that have shown up. I don't know if it's mental health days being taken by the workers or what. But it's like people don't show up until the DMV office closes, essentially. That's what goes on. The other pebble you brought into my mind was the availability of physician because in 2020, when my Dr. Nordahl friend of friends retired,

I lost a physician that I could have a very smart conversation with of 25 years. And since then, I've been through two different services and I'm very disappointed with the...what do you call the Apple tablet coding assistant? Oh, the iPad MD physician assistants, right? And they don't even lean over and die, never mind. Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. Good pebble.

Good pebble. Thanks for describing it. Take care. And you know what I was thinking is, for me, the issue is when you go to the doctor, you never actually see the doctor, you see the assistants. And I still say, I insist that today, I don't go to the doctor very often, but when I do, the doctor is like my imaginary friend. He's in the corporate structure there someplace when I go there.

There is no doctor there. They are all assistants. They are all, what do they call it, nurse assistants? Yeah, physicians assistants. For all I know, the doctor is actually an AI creation over in Providence or Asante. So, they're telling the PAs what to do. The previous doctor that I got after Dr. Norrindahl took her business to Wyoming. She got out of the state and when she was doing that, I simply looked at her and I said,

I don't blame you. Yeah, well, I had that happen with my doctor a year ago too. He ended up taking off for greener pastures that were not Oregon. This might be going back into that state-created pebble of businesses wanting to leave because they figure they can't make it. That kind of thing. They're figuring that they're treated poorly. All right, Keith from Cave Junction, keep it between the lines, all right? Thanks for the call. All right.

There we go. Pebble in your shoe. You see, I'm sure Keith feels better. Less stress, less cortisol. Okay. Coming up here, I want to tell you about who we have, some of the people we have coming on the show this morning. We have Kevin Sterritt, who's going to be talking about the late, oh man, I'll tell

you, the gun bills are moving and they're moving hard, Republicans still aren't walking out, and yet they are able to walk out right now penalty free because there are only a few days left by mandate, by the Constitution. They have to get wrapped up by a certain amount of time so they can walk out and not even hit the 10 days, and there's still no talk about it. And the gun bills are moving, and so who's actually protecting our rights? I don't know. And there's all this talk about the big, beautiful bill with President Trump.

You've got to get this bill passed. We've got to get this tax bill passed. Mark Kwan joins me, and he says that you can create your own almost tax-free or practically tax-free life right now, even with the current bill, and even if the big beautiful bill doesn't pass, and we'll talk with him about it. And he's not in jail, and he is not a homeless person. But he does say, be smart, pay zero taxes. I'm always willing to talk to someone about that, especially when they're not in jail

at this point, because one of the big tax experts I talked to a number of years ago was it... who is the financier? He ended up being a political prisoner. It was talking about how you didn't have to file tax returns and all this sort of stuff and and of course he spent his elderly years in the federal penitentiary so that didn't work well. So every time I have someone says hey I'm gonna help you pay practically zero taxes right are you in jail? No? Okay. All right. We'll talk. Coming up. The Road Gardener, not a big fan of spraying for weeds, maybe with one exception. If you're dealing with a bunch of difficult to control weeds like Bermuda grass, knock those down with glyphosate, I should say, like Roundup. And you could do that spraying, but don't neglect the fact that now you have

at least three and possibly even four seasons of weed seeds in that ground wanting to come up. The Rogue Gardener, Saturdays 10 to noon, Sunday morning, Encore at 9, sponsored by Grange Co-op on KMED. There's plenty of entertainment at the Jackson County Fair, but we're looking for homegrown talent, too, for the big

Talent show this isn't just for singers if you've got a talent that will electrify the crowd at the center stage Submit your short video at the expo calm if it makes people cheer laugh or stare in amazement We want to see it and maybe you'll compete in the big Talent show for $1,000 in cash prizes animal acts welcome visit the expo calm and click the participate tab I'm Jim with the Beauty Mart Salon and Glitter Bar and I'm on KME News. A thousand dollars cash at that Expo Talent Show. I can't wait for that. I'm going to be one of the emcees in one of the nights. I forget which one. But I'm curious to see this and they're hoping they don't want just singers. They don't want to just be another version of American

Eagle. So if you have any kind of talent, like maybe you could go out there and and you'll pretend to be a Democrat politician in the state of Oregon, and then you hold up the union, then you have somebody else hold up the union contributions and see how high the Democratic politician will jump to grab the... I don't know if they did. Why wouldn't they take that? Sure. Or else maybe you can bring a Democrat politician and watch them turn down, see if they'll turn

down a donation from a union. Here's 50,000 from SEIU. I don't know if I can resist. All right. It's 28 minutes after six. Hi, good morning. It's Pebble in Your Shoe Tuesday. Who's this?

Welcome. Hey, that's pretty good. I think you have an act there, so I would suggest you take your act to that performance there. So you have the SEIU bribe is up here, and then can the Democratic politician resist it? How high can they jump? Yeah, and then it's a, I can't help myself. And he or she grabs it and runs off the stage. But anyway.

Anyway, that name you're looking for is Irwin Schiff. Thank you. Irwin Schiff. I remember I knew that Peter Schiff, his son, I've talked with him. It's been a while since I've talked with him. But yeah, I talked with Irwin Schiff probably 20 years ago before he passed away, but he ended up passing away in jail. In prison, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

You don't want to get tangled up with them because you really have to be, if you go that route, you have to be so knowledgeable. Very, very few people have that. But basically, the law doesn't have jurisdiction over us, but if you...they assume they do, and if you assume that they assume, then you're caught up in that system. And it's really about power. We're not even really talking about law at this point in rule of law. It's about the power to seize your stuff and seize your money and various others.

I actually think that Irwin Schiff's book was actually quite well written and went down the law. What was it? Zitzilla? What's that? It was called or something. Yeah, it was like you're not required to pay taxes. I forget. I don't think you can get a copy of it anymore. Yeah, it would be the least bit surprise. Yeah, I just wanted to say you started out the show talking about doctors dismissing patients because they just wouldn't go along with safe and effective. And I'm just thinking about that. You realize that maybe about 80% of Oregon now is genetically modified organisms? You could be. of organo-genetically modified organisms?

You could think... You know, that's neither here nor there because they did take it, but my point being is, if we're going to have a medical school in Medford, is it just going to be an inside-the-box, prescribe the pharmaceutical drugs and tout the safe and effective regime, which has gotten us into so much trouble in the first place. Well, it's going to be interesting to see if Robert Kennedy can really shift the whole paradigm of medical and healthcare delivery, because right now it's not working very well. It's way overpriced, and it's misdirected. You know, if somebody walks in with a problem, the question is, what is the most practical, effective thing that we can do for this person? But they just have two tricks, you

know, slash and burn or poison. And it's not working. You need a larger scope. So yeah, we don't want just another pharmaceutical, medical, industrial, complex school. And by the way, this is not knocking, there are some amazingly good drugs, but that is like the only solution that gets brought in for the most part. Yeah. Dr. Jane Orient and Dr. Jane Orient, MD from AAPS, talking about how all of the incentives, all of the rules, all of the protocols. We have doctors in hospitals that practice protocols instead of practicing medicine.

You go back to... Yes, they call that evidence-based healthcare, and the evidence is just coming from the drug cartels. Well, but the evidence is also you either do our practice the way we say, or else you're out of work. We're going to fire you from the hospital. We're going to fire you from the hospital. We're going to fire you from the practice, you know, those those sort of things.

So that's the kind of evidence. Here's the evidence. You're going to be fired if you don't. I mean, that's what happened during COVID. We have to remember that. And so, Tom, point well taken. Excellent point on Pebble in Your Shoe Tuesday and always appreciate the call.

OK, thank you so much. 632. Now then, be smart, pay zero taxes. No, he's not in jail. He's not Erwin Schiff. Nothing like that. But we're gonna talk with Mark Jaquan about this in just a moment. I'm looking forward to it. Should be a good conversation. Stephen Westfall Roofing. Their standing seam metal roofings custom cut on-site with portable snap lock machines. They also install laminated architectural shingles rated for high winds and impact plus concrete and clay tile roofing known for thermal efficiency and longevity.

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From the KMED News Center, here's what's going on. The Medford City Council is putting together a memorandum of understanding with Oregon Health and Science University to potentially build a new medical school in the area. If it comes to fruition, Medford would be the site of the only medical school between Portland and Sacramento. The Medford campus would need an approximately 60,000 square foot building. Oregon's Department of Motor Vehicles was unable to issue licenses, ID cards or vehicle registrations Monday morning due to what state officials call a partner vendor issue.

They say it's going to take time to catch up on the backlog, but normal customer services were restored by late afternoon. Three Oregonians face federal charges for alleged actions against government vehicles and officials. Keelan Fitzsimmons, who's accused of breaking the window out of a Department of Homeland Security vehicle, parked outside the federal building in Eugene. Joshua Cartret of Oregon City and Giovanni Brumbolo of Gresham are charged with assaulting federal officers Saturday outside the Portland ICE facility.

Bill London, KMED. Do you take safe drinking water for granted? If you have a well for your water, no one's monitoring what's in your water. the Portland ICE Facility, Bill London KMED. results for bacteria tests and a speedy three to five days for a full reporting that meets all state requirements online at gpwaterlab.com independent and serving the rogue valley for over 40 years. The Bill Meyer show on 1063 KMED. You know, I'm one of those typical Americans. I get out, you know, my copy of Turbo Tax or whatever it is, right? Dig out the books and you know, my copy of Turbo Tax or whatever it is, or I dig out the books and I do my taxes every year and it's like, and I cry, I write checks, I cry and gnash my teeth. It doesn't make any difference here. And then I got a pitch the other day about Mark Kwan and Mark Kwan says, hey, you got to be smart about this and keep more of your money at tax time.

Now I've talked with people, like I mentioned to you in the lead up to this, like Irwin Schiff that said you didn't have to pay any taxes and da da da da da. We're going to challenge the law. He ended up dying in prison. So we don't want to do this. And so when the representative told me, no, Mark's not in prison, I said, okay, I'll talk with him then. And he's author of the Smart Pay Zero Taxes, Use the Buy Borrow Die Strategy to Get Rich and Stay Rich. Mark, it is a pleasure.

Tell me a little bit about your background. What have you been doing over these last few years? Spent about 20 years in finance. I was a financial advisor, fiduciary investment advisor for 15 years. I used to train financial advisors. I used to set up 401k plans for companies and I was actually the financial advisor

for a number of CPAs. So I've been doing this a long time. This is my fourth book. So yeah, I've been doing this a long time, written a lot of books and a very conservative actually as far as financial tax policy and what strategies we use. Now everything we use is all IRS approved. There's no Irwin-Cheff strategy.

Yeah, you're not risking dying in prison and are saying, oh, Mark Kwan is a tax protester, right? That kind of thing. That was sort of like a tax protester is sort of like a conspiracy theory of the, in the tax world there. And we're not going to, poor Irwin, we can't help Irwin at this point, but you are trying to help Americans legally, you know, avoid these. This is a, and

you're allowed to do everything you can. And it seems to be, is it kind of about leveraging debt in a way to to help you get income, but it's not necessarily classified as income. Is that kind of the way I'm looking at this so far? Yeah, for sure. So four years ago, I started teaching this. During coronavirus, my company sat down, because obviously most companies did, and I sat down and I asked some friends. I was doing some investing investing and I was putting my post on Instagram where I was investing into a lot of people were making money and said, Mark, you just started a financial education company. So I started a financial education company.

We came across this term, buy, borrow, die. I was like, how have I never heard of this before? It comes from the University of Southern California in the 1990s. It actually dates back to the Great Depression. And basically the way that wealthy people avoid taxes, they'll buy stocks and ETFs. ECS didn't exist back then, but stocks. They never sell them. If they never sell them, they never pay taxes because there's no capital gain tax if you

don't sell. If you take a low interest loan secured by that investment and buy another stock with it, you didn't have to earn the money. You avoided paying income taxes. If you never sell, the portfolio grows without taxes and you get a step up in basis when you die, meaning you never pay taxes. It's that simple. Now, you can do this with stocks, ETFs, life insurance, real estate, cryptocurrency.

You could even do it with artwork. With artwork, so you have a special piece of art and you then use it as collateral to borrow to buy more artwork? Is that kind of what you're getting at? Yeah, you could do all kinds of things and let me give you how ridiculous this thing is. And by the way, anybody can do this. We show people how to start with $100 in a brokerage account. So this is not something but you're gonna bake baby steps Right, but let's say some rich guy has a three million dollars in his brokerage account. Okay, and he's not selling it He's growing his wealth without paying taxes. He wants to be out by it. He wants to buy some gold

He wants to buy some art. He wants to buy some life insurance for his legacy planning and he wants to buy Whatever some Bitcoin so he goes. All right, I'm gonna take a loan. It's either a securities, the back line of credit, or it's a margin loan, a simple margin loan. Okay, I borrow at 5.25% from my brokerage account right now. Now he goes and buys his artwork. He buys a million dollar painting, okay? And he puts it on his wall.

He goes to JP Morgan Bank and goes, hey, I wanna borrow from my artwork. They obviously make sure it's backed. He goes and buys some gold. He puts the gold in a storage vault. There's vaults all across the country. And he buys $800,000 worth of gold. And he takes that $800,000, he borrows from it. He borrows another $600,000. He buys some life insurance. And then he borrows from that life insurance. And he buys Bitcoin. As the Bitcoin appreciates, he can borrow from that life insurance, and he buys Bitcoin as the Bitcoin appreciates. He can borrow from his Bitcoin and put it back in his brokerage account.

There was no taxes due ever, as long as the assets accumulate, and they will. Certain assets will go up and certain will go down. But as long as you understand how that works, you can do exactly like the wealthy people do. Right now, you have to have over $2 thousand dollars in a brokerage account to start doing this So you only have to be wealthy. I've got wealthy people using this I've got wealthy clients and I've got people who've never invested before They just make forty fifty thousand dollars a year and they're starting to do it. All right now. How do you service?

These loans that that you were talking about? You borrow against the brokerage account and then you buy this and then you take the painting and you borrow more against the value of the painting and you keep going. How do you service all of this? Okay. So obviously, I don't recommend the strategy to everybody because you have to invest the time to understand how to do this safely. This is not something you just run around and do.

So imagine, let's take the scenario, somebody has a million dollar brokerage account. If they borrow 200,000 from the brokerage account to buy Bitcoin or some other asset, the loan interest is very, very small compared to the asset. So let's say the asset grows at 12% per year, it's going to double around every six years. So six years later, your million is now two million, it's four million, six years later, eight million. It doesn't really matter. The bank doesn't even care. They don't even care if you pay the interest in some cases. I don't actually pay the interest on my debt. I'm not trying to get out of debt. I'm trying to buy assets that are going to

grow. I'm going to borrow from them to buy more assets. And I'm not ever trying to get out of debt. I'm trying to get in more debt. Because as long as the investments are sound, I'm circumventing the US tax system. People think debt is debt. Rich people don't view debt. Billionaires don't think of it as debt. They think of it as, I'm creating money where I didn't have to spend my time earning it. I didn't have to pay taxes and I didn't have to fight inflation while earning it. Okay. And the banks don't call the loans? No. If your assets crash, yes, you can get a margin call, right? But you have to be very educated on how to do this. I've spent, I've taught over 500 people, because I didn't want to just go, is this gonna work?

I wanted to find out, could I teach it to others? So I taught it to about 500 people, and that's when Newsmax sent me an email early last year, asking if I could write a book to prove that ordinary Americans can use the buy borrow die strategy, wrote the book, and now we have a few thousand people using it. Within a couple years we'll have a hundred thousand or two hundred thousand people doing it. Mark Kwan is the author

of Be Smart, Pay Zero Taxes, Use the Buy Borrow Die Strategy to Get Rich and Stay Rich. Now you say buy borrow and die. When you die then do the loans then call in these various assets then go back to pay these these loans or is there something else that some other way? And I'm sorry I'm sorry to ask this is probably a really dumb question to you but... No, no there's no there's no dumb questions. Trust me. The more people are educated about this topic, and I use the term educated, the harder it is to understand.

If I go to a financial advisor or CPA, they have a very difficult time with this. If I teach you to an 18-year-old who doesn't know anything, they just do it. It's very simple for them. So the more educated you are on finances, the harder it is to learn to do this stuff. That's really interesting. Okay. The more educated, the more trouble you're going to have with this. Yeah, because normally we think about debt. Now, I do appreciate that the fact that you're using debt to actually buy more appreciating assets, right? Now, what happens when you end up getting into a general situation where the markets are no longer just going up in a straight line like

they've been doing for the most part except with a few setbacks here and there since 2008, for example? What happens? Is there any way that you can get yourself in trouble in these kind of interlocking debt deals that you're talking about. Yeah, first let me cover the step-up in basis. So when you die, if you sold your assets to pay off the debt earlier, you would trigger these massive taxes. So the rich just don't sell them. When they die, there's a step-up in basis, meaning it's now tax-free, and then then the tax free money pays off the loan. And then two, yeah, let's say a person just bought Amazon stock, they're like, I shopped at Amazon, but what if they just kept buying it forever for the rest of their life? They never

stopped buying it, especially in down markets, just keep buying. You could accumulate a fortune there. If you want to live, just press the borrow button, send money to your bank account. You're literally doing the strategy that billionaires use. Exactly. You essentially borrow from your stock holdings for your life expenses. Is that kind of what you're doing here, Mark? Chapter 48 is called live off the borrow button. And it's also what you shouldn't be doing or what doesn't work for this.

I only invest when I can take a loan from the asset. I will not put my money into anything unless I know I can take a low interest loan secured by that asset. Now you can't do that with any retirement accounts. People like retirement accounts are there to help them retire. Really? Seriously? No, retirement accounts were built to make sure you can't retire. They're built to keep your head just

above water, tax you to the moon when you actually retire, and build passive income streams for BlackRock and the largest financial companies. They're not there to help you retire. People think, oh yeah, I'll put all my money into a retirement account. No, the employer saves self-employment taxes. That's why they're built. There's no talk about making sure their employees retire. In fact, it's like hand cuffs to the corporation. It ties you to the tax system, ties you to the corporation. They're worse taxation on the backend, and they trigger taxation on your social security benefits. So, yet most CPAs and financial advisors recommend a retirement account. Why? Because where does the education from financial advisors and CPAs come from?

You don't get the government and Wall Street created a system to make sure the CPAs and financial advisors put everybody into the system so big government can tax them and Wall Street can collect their fees. So in essence what you're doing is using... People actually believe the system rather than not believe this. So you are doing is using... It's ridiculous that people actually believe the system rather than not believe this. So you are, in essence, using the tools of the financialized system to beat the financialized system is what you're talking about here. Isn't that right?

Correct. Yeah, my first book was about the banking industry. It was about the corruption of the banking industry. So I tend to... I'm an entrepreneur. I like to disrupt, but these are all federal tax codes. Here's the other thing. You can wipe out taxes on W-2 income using real estate. People say that's impossible. It's totally possible. There's a couple of different ways to do it in the book.

One of the things that I have always been kind of irritated about in the United States tax code. I don't know if you would agree with this, but labor income is treated very harshly when compared to capital and borrowing. So this is what you're kind of taking advantage of. You work for a living, you swap your life for a buck or two, and there it is, you know, your tax at minimum 15 and minimum 15% just for the payroll taxes, all that kind of stuff. And then you have your state and various income taxes. So you're trying to take everything out of that. You borrow money against assets and that borrowed money that you would then live on is not considered income for tax purposes. So you're not paying taxes on that, right? Correct. And I have a very simple plan.

I buy assets. I never stop buying them. I'm never going to liquidate them. I'm always buying in up markets, down markets. I'm just never stop buying and I'm never going to sell. If I need cash, I can press the borrow button on my phone. There's literally a borrow button there and I can send cash to my bank account. I can fund my business. I'll give you another example.

There's a guy who has reached out to me. He works for one of the largest tech companies in the world. Makes about a million bucks a year. He used to donate a hundred grand to his church every single year. He's like, okay. He told me there's no way you can save me money. I said, yes, I can. So I said, put money in your brokerage account,

press the borrow button for a hundred grand in November and donate that to your church. There you go, that's a double tax deduction. So the hundred grand that he would have donated to the church is still in his brokerage account. He took a margin loan, which wasn't taxable. He donated it to his church. The government owes him $39,000 right there.

Okay, this is really interesting. I'm going to get a copy of this just so I can understand it because maybe I've just talked to too many other people in finances over the years. So I'm still trying to figure out though, because you have a low interest loan, like a margin loan, you know, that kind of thing like you were talking about here, Mark, you still have to pay something on that or do you not? No, I don't pay my interest. I just let it accrue. I'll give you a sec.

Oh, you let it accrue. Okay. All right. See, that was what I was missing. That was the part I was missing. Okay. Yeah. And I'll give you a little bit of history.

There's... Exchange-traded funds are really cool. An exchange traded fund can be a complex options trade. I don't want to go too narrow down the rabbit hole, but there's a thing called a covered call. You could invest in the stock market and you can generate a 12% dividend on your money. Dividends using covered call. There's a couple in the book, okay?

Now when I first started this course, I was borrowing at 2% interest, because interest rates were really low. I was borrowing at 2% and I was buying a covered call that paid a 12% dividend. So when would I pay back the debt? I would never pay back the debt. As it would grow, I would borrow at 2%

and buy another covered call that paid 12%. You know what I mean? It wouldn't make sense to pay off the debt, because to pay off the debt, you'd have to go to work, spend your time, pay taxes, fight inflation, to pay back the debt. All right, and so, yeah. So you're trying to get us to all be kind of like

our own United States national debt, and everybody knows that national debt's never going to get paid, right? We all know that? No, most of the money in the world is just zero ones on a computer. There's no actual money there. 90% of it's just zero ones on a computer. So create zero ones on a computer by pressing the borrow button. I do it. Hundreds of people are doing it. I've taught them. That's how the rich people do it.

People are like, I'm going into debt. No, you're not. If you're investing in a solid asset like real estate or some other asset, you're creating money. You didn't have to spend your time. You completely circumvented having to earn the money and pay ridiculous amounts of income taxes and you didn't have to fight inflation. You fought inflation with inflation. Inflation is the creating money, so learn to create money. It's a very interesting concept here, Mark.

My question is though, has this been tested in super down markets? Yes, absolutely. No, we wanted to test this. We had the 2022 crash. That was awesome. We were very excited about that because we wanted to crash it.

We just went through another 20% crash. The star market, yeah, absolutely 100%. Then that's again, just understanding there's a lot of ETFs out there. So you really have to understand how to do it. And then also there's assets that can't lose money. You can invest in gold and precious metals. That's not going to crash and borrow from that. You can invest in life insurance and grow your investments with no risk and no taxes.

So it's understanding five different assets and how they fit together and how to build a perfect portfolio, which you can't be wiped out because I can't be wiped out. I don't care if inflation, taxes go up, stock market crash, doesn't matter to me because I always have money because I have investments that can't lose money. They can go up, they just can't go down. This is kind of the way that you've discovered that the uber-rich really ended up structuring their life. And that was the basis of this book, really, which you ended up finding out over time? It was amazing to me that I'd spent 20 years and written four books. I've spent more than 60,000 hours studying finance, especially when writing books. And I'd never come across

the term by borough die. And here's the crazy part. You can go to you can go to University of Southern California, where they coined the phrase at the law school, they won't teach it to you got a Pepperdine, Yale, Harvard, they won't teach it to you when they go to those schools, you can become a financial advisor, fiduciary investment advisor, CPA, they still won't teach you this strategy. That's strange, isn't that? I guess they only want a few people doing this. Yeah, I guess so. But here's the thing, I'm not worried about that because most people won't do this. Most people will just continue funding their retirement accounts, paying their taxes.

States tend to be too good to be true. But the few people that actually learn this, they can get wealthy and do exactly what the rich people do. So I'm not too worried about that, actually. Most people won't. They won't put the time or energy or money or just the time into raising their financial IQ and understanding. So I'm not too worried about that. Some people do, though. I've got a lot of people who do reach out to me every single day. I run a financial education company, and it's growing like crazy. My oldest client right now is 85 years old. He's a veteran, 85 years old. We're teaching him how to do it. By the way, this education group, is this the REMLI group?

No, it's the Perfect Portfolio, so the perfect portfolio.com. We have tons of content there, all my media appearances. And again, I was thinking about writing a book on this topic and then Newsmax reached out to me last year and asked me if I could do it. So I spent about 11 months of day and night to get it done, but it's a pretty fun book. It's also not boring, by the way. It's not another boring textbook.

It's actually kind of fun to read. I think I keep things simple, easy to understand, stories-based, and hopefully the reviews have been pretty good so far. One of the big takeaways, though, is that you never invest anything in that brokerage account that you cannot borrow against. That's like your cardinal rule, right? I call it dead money. Dead money is when you invest and you can't take a loan from the asset. So I don't invest where I don't kill my money. Okay. I'm going to have to take a look at this because it is intriguing and thought-provoking, intriguing and thought-provoking. I'm always curious about it. It's be smart pay zero taxes use the buy borrow die strategy to get rich and stay rich and you know

And then at this point that I'll buy the station. Okay, that's what I can do with your With your plan at some point right as long as I can borrow against the station once I buy it right and invest in it Yes, you would want to be able to borrow from it. You never want to sell the asset. You only want to go, Plan A is buy it. Plan B is borrow from it. Plan B is when you die, make sure your assets get a stepped-up basis, which is if you're married, it's up to 26 million tax free to go to your family. All right, Mark Kwan. Mark Kwan, I'm going to link to your BizPak review article too. And what's the website for the book? Do you have a main website for the book other than the Amazon or the usual suspects or where you want people to go?

All my books and information about is the perfect portfolio.com the perfect portfolio.com Very good mark great getting a chance to meet you and talk with you about this and I hope to have you back All right, you be well Thank you 655 and KMED 993 KBXG you You buy, you invest in things, you don't sell it, you borrow against them. It's interesting, isn't it? The Outdoor Report is every Friday morning just past 7 a.m. on The Bill Meyers Show.

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on KMED, sponsored by Grange Co-op. You're hearing the Bill Meyers Show on 1063 KMED. It is Pebble in Your Shoe Tuesday, 7705633. Happy to take your calls. Kevin Starr joins me. We're going to talk about whether the Pebble in his shoe, the Republicans not willing to walk out and deny quorum and keep these horrific gun bills from moving forward and there's just a bunch of them and work

there was a work session on I think it was 234 a yesterday if I recall correctly another one is happening today they're moving we only have a few days left in the session and we're past the time in which anybody can be deemed removable from office from measure 113. They could all walk out, both in the Senate and the House right now. They could just completely shut down the legislature right now and they would not get to 10 absences. Still wouldn't do it. We'll talk with Kevin about that and a whole bunch more. In illegal immigration news here, interesting story today in Oregon Live, Trump administration

looking for Medicaid data on undocumented Oregonians. Now see, they'll always call it undocumented as if somehow illegal aliens just kind of showed up in the state of Oregon and they just kind of, they just forgot their paperwork. You know, I don't have paperwork. I don't, you know, I just walked in here and I don't have paperwork with I don't you know I just walked in here I don't have paperwork I don't know what am I going to do here? No, but in all seriousness the Fed is looking for all sorts of enrolling data in the Oregon health plan. So when they're looking for Medicaid data they're looking for Oregon health plan. Lund report is saying that they're looking for a crackdown on coverage of people who lack immigration documentation.

See that is the politically correct progressive way of talking about it, the fact that illegal aliens mooching off of the Oregon health plan. Move comes even as the Trump administration's decision to share equivalent data from other states with immigration enforcement has sparked objections saying the move is unlawful and unethical. This according to the Associated Press. What the hell does the Associated Press know about reporting ethics? I don't know. But the fact of the matter is that it has never been legal. It has never been lawful

to give Oregon Health Plan to illegal aliens. They kind of have their own system though to try to get around this, but the Trump administration is trying to get to the bottom of this. So I think that's an interesting story. We'll see where this ends up going. Meanwhile, in illegal alien news here, the Oregonian reporting a punch in the gut Oregon's wine industry on edge amid targeted immigration enforcement. The wine industry

people ended up meeting with a couple of members of Congress during a roundtable yesterday to talk about business opportunities and the challenges including the impact of aggressive federal immigration enforcement so without illegal aliens there will be no wine. US representative Andrea Salinas, a Democrat from Oregon, US Representative Mike Thompson, a Democrat from California, they co-chair the Congressional Wine Caucus. I didn't know there was such a thing, but I guess there's a caucus for everything, right? And they're really concerned that with getting increased immigration enforcement that it's going to really hurt their industry.

I wonder if that is going on in our area vineyards, if that happens, if this is pretty much an open secret that you end up hiring illegal immigrants to do the jobs. I don't know. Maybe they do. Maybe they do. But the Wine Caucus is very upset. It's a bit of an after seven. Hi, good morning. This is Bill. Who's this? Oh hi Bill, it's Lynn. Hi Lynn, how are you? Oh good. Yeah, that's really interesting about the Medicaid. Looking out for the illegals on Medicaid. I like that. I do think we need an exception for agricultural workers because those are jobs that Americans really won't do. It does seem that way sometimes, so the Wine Caucus may have a point, but is it difficult...

Excuse me, I had a cough there for a second. Is it difficult to get just a, you know, come here and do the work and then go back? Or is the idea that they come and do the work but then they stay? I have no idea. I just know that the farmers around here that I've talked to, not a lot, but they all say it's really a struggle. Okay. But I wanted to talk about your last guest. I am completely unconvinced by his strategy. I know! It sounds like having your cake and eating it too, kind of a thing. I get that. Yeah, I mean, I'm doing something similar only without the borrowing, but you know, the Bible says the borrower is slave to the lender, and if there is a big crash, you could

end up having to sell at a very big loss. And then he talks about deductions. Well, the standard deduction now is so high. He says you can use this if you're a middle income person. Well, no, because you only get deductions if you itemize. We haven't itemized for more than 10 years, maybe 20 years. So I think it's a strategy for wealthy people, but not necessarily for middle income people. You know what I'm going to do though is that, you know, he hasn't sent me a book.

I'm going to buy a copy of the book though and take a look at it. Maybe I'll talk about it on the show. Okay. Okay. What I do think is smart and that I've been doing, we've been doing and it's worked out fantastic, partly because the market's been strong, but if the market goes down, I don't care. In fact, I'm a little bit happy about that.

And what we've been doing, I finally got smart, gave up on mutual funds because the costs are low, but you don't really know what's in the fund and they kind of fool around every quarter and sell stuff. Even exchange traded funds, I'm not a big fan of, but buying blue chip stocks, but you can buy your own partial shares if you're starting out small. It's easy to do now. Schwab calls them slices, I think.

But anyway, you buy blue chip stocks that pay a dividend, and you never sell them unless the stock runs into serious corporate issues of some kind and you need to sell it. But basically, you just let that grow over many, many years, and then when you're ready to retire, you've got income that you've developed from investing in stocks long-term. Now, when you talked about income, are you talking about the blue chips with dividend, dividend paying? Yeah, you just start taking the dividends. Yeah, yeah. Very good. I don't care about capital gains. I have found that kind of a loser's game unless you're really smart like Matt maybe. But and I also did the covered call thing for a while years ago. I actually had a certified financial planner designation and I was a broker decades ago. And what I learned about the covered calls is you really kind of have

to know what you're doing and you have to pay attention. Now I did that after I was out of the business and I was investing in a mutual fund that said, oh, we're gonna really protect you on the downside with this strategy. And it worked really great until there was a 30% drop in the market and we lost more than that. And that's kind of why I was asking them has this program been tested. But I'm gonna buy a copy of that and it's be smart, pay zero taxes, use the buy, borrow, die strategy. And I'll tell you what, if I were to buy it and give it to you, would you give me your take on it?

How about that? Yeah, maybe. Maybe. The other problem is, you know, if you, even if you're, if you actually can take deductions, people think that if they deduct something that they're saving all that money. No, they're only saving the percent of their tax bracket. That's true. So if you're in the 25% tax bracket, let's say, and you get to deduct your interest, well, you're only saving 25% of that

amount on your taxes. You're not saving the whole amount. So that's another thing that people kind of... He didn't explain that, and I think that's a little bit of a scam. All right. Well, I'll find out. Okay. I'll do my best to find out. All right. Thank you for your take on it. But like I said, I'm always a little bit concerned when it sounds too good to be true. And I know that Newsmax got involved with him and is saying, and I know this, Newsmax is involved with him somehow. But then on the other hand, Newsmax is talking more about investing in their stocks than they seem to be talking about the quality of their news. but that's just me. And what's the problem that we're all experiencing now? Debt. Our government is gone crazy with debt.

Debt is rarely a good thing. You might take some debt for an appreciating asset. Even real estate crashes sometimes. I know people that lost their homes in the crash of 2009. So I would not borrow for anything but a home personally. All right. Well, I appreciate your opinion and thank you for that. Thank you very much. Let me grab another one here. It's Pebble in Your Shoe Tuesday. Hi, good morning. Who's this? Hey, Bill. It's Will Semon. Hey, Steve. What's going on? Yes. All right. Just for one little quick data point, covered calls mean or selling a call means you own the stock and you sell the call out of the market. You don't make

much but it's income that you get from something that you own that may not be paying you anything. But if you sell the call and for whatever reason the person you sold it to calls away the stock, you lost the benefit of what you're trying to do there. Yeah. Okay. So, all right. My mind is, my eyes are glazing over right now with talks about covered calls. Yeah, I'm sorry. That's the problem with options.

But you own a stock and you go into the market and you can sell a call that somebody can call away your stock at a certain price point. Yeah, a strike at the strike price, right? At the strike price. Okay. Yeah, a strike at the strike price, right? At the strike price, okay. So you can then lose your stock and then you trigger a capital gains event if it's something you've owned a long time. All right. I'd like to say that I completely understand it.

I don't. Maybe we talk about that next hour when I have a little more time. How about that? Can we do that? Thank you, Bill. All right. Yeah. Oh boy. Be smart, pay zero taxes, but watch out for the covered calls. And is it a scam? I don't know. Okay. But I know what we are. This is KMED and KMED, HT1, Eagle Point, Medford, KBXG, Grants Pass. We'll catch up on news next.