Bill Meyer Show Podcast - Sponsored by Clouser Drilling www.ClouserDrilling.com - 07-17-25_THURSDAY_8AM

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

Conspiracy Theory Thursday calls and topics, Jeff Harrell joins later from Cascadia Pharmacy group - huge pressure on independent pharmacies...will the state step in and fix the trouble?

The Bill Myer Show podcast is sponsored by Clouser Drilling. They've been leading the way in Southern Oregon well drilling for over 50 years. Find out more about them at clauserdrilling.com. I just got a text message from a state rep, Wayne Younger. Said, funny Bill, lady governor who wants to look like a man. Have you been reading my post? Yes, I stole that from you, Representative Younger. Representative Younger had said, you know, talking about how liberals hate men,

but the governor wants to look like a man. Rather manly. I thought that was pretty funny. I laughed out loud when he put that up. Hello, Steve in Sunny Valley. How are you doing? I am doing well this morning. What are you thinking? I am thinking that the victims of Epstein Islander took the money and didn't come forward because very very powerful people have a way of making problems disappear with nooses in cells and other places and it's just a lot easier to take the money and be quiet and

hopefully you're left alone to live out your life. You think that's what was going on here? I think that might be part of it. I think those young people who were abused are just happy to have the wherewithal to live a better life and hopefully they don't have to worry about You know somebody offing them and making it look like a suicide All right. Thanks, Steve. Appreciate that Seven seven. Oh five six three three. It's open phones on conspiracy theory Thursday. Hi. Good morning Hello. Hello. Hi

Yeah, yeah bill. I was calling to say these bodies are vehicles. They're like cars. We don't know how old the operator is behind that wheel is, and they could have been much older than the little kids that we're thinking about. We are thinking the wrong way. I don't understand. Try this again. We possess these bodies, which is another way of saying own these bodies. We buy them, we purchase them. So in other words, we have old souls,

so as far as the kids, they're not victims? Is that kind of where you're going? Well, I've just gone. They might not have been kids, but we think of the body is being a person and it's not. It never has been. All right. Thank you, Gene. 7705633. It's a different way of looking at it, I guess. Good morning. Hi, who's this? This is Minor Dave. Yeah, Dave. Yeah, I wanted to put another conspiracy theory out there, or hypothesis, that the Federal Reserve and the pressure on them for Powell to resign or fire in, well, Trump could take over the Federal Reserve by appointing Treasury Department people. They'd still work for the Treasury Department, but he could take control of it and they could get Doge to audit the Fed because now it's actually under control

of the Treasury Department where it should be. And then, you know, the private banks that are participating in the Federal Reserve, all could be audited. If there's any fraud, they could build a constructive case against them. And they get all the debt, we get all the assets, and it comes into the sovereignty funds. And those five banks, the five largest banks that are participating in them, those guys get to pay the debt, the $31 trillion debt will go on their hands. Well, now that's a very interesting theory.

At this point though, I don't think anyone's discussing that. I know President Trump would like to fire Jerome Powell because he says that the interest rates are too high. And yet, on the other hand, given the current status of the United States finances the debt debt and all the rest of it if he were to take it down to one London because you know they they Were under their economic system if we break the British hold on The banking system it'll be the end of the monarchy and that would be the best thing because they're a bunch of bankster warmongers. Alright, thanks for

the opinion Dave. Got about an unusual one. Good morning, it's Conspiracy Theory Thursday. Who's this? Bill, it's your friend Brad. Good morning to you. Hello Brad. So Bill, I don't know how you follow all the different news threads that you do, but somehow you do. And I know that you saw this very interesting article about a company that furnishes protesters on demand. They turned down a $20 million contract to fund protests against conservative people like Elon Musk. What does that tell us about this industry? If this industry is so big that just one contract to furnish these protesters was worth

20 million dollars and the guy turned it down. It tells you that there's a lot of money sloshing around, a lot of dark money sloshing around for rental mobs, huh? Yeah, yeah. And that very little of these major protests that we're seeing are really organic. Adam Stewart, CEO of an activist group called Crowds On Demand, told reporter Brian Enton that an unnamed organization offered his company $20 million to recruit demonstrators for anti-Trump protests on Thursday. He told the journalist, we had to reject an offer worth around $20 million for nationwide large-scale demonstrations across the country. Why isn't it just guys like you that know this? Why isn't this story front-page news for the big media outlet? Yeah, because the news is managed, you know that.

And I would dare say all the news is even managed to a certain extent. Hey, before you take off though, having been a big builder here in Southern Oregon, what do you think about that downtown ball, half billion dollar ball stadium, motel or hotel, actually rather, convention rooms and things like that? Not the worst idea I've heard. What do you think? Well, yeah, the short, you know, my short tongue and cheeky answer to that is Brad Hicks loves baseball, right? Now, Brad Hicks is not in the chamber any longer, is he? Right? Now, Brad Hicks is not in the chamber any longer, is he? Oh, well, if you think he's not in the chamber any longer, I've got some cheap land somewhere

else. Okay, so he's not running it any longer, but still great influence. Okay, got it. Brad Hicks is one of the most influential people in Southern Oregon. He's well-beloved by the business community, and he does a lot of things that he thinks are good for Southern Oregon. So I'll just say that. He's done a lot of good things.

But here's the deal. Half a billion dollars is a lot of money, but the reality, Bill, is the blue metros in Oregon are collapsing. Portland is collapsing. Salem is collapsing. These sports franchises have to go somewhere where someone can afford what they do or they will cease to be and all the revenue streams that they're currently getting will also cease to be. So they have to go somewhere. That's

why they're courting a well-managed city like Medford. Medford is a well-managed city, so they're trying to find a place, you know, where they used to be, can't support them anymore, so they need to go somewhere that will support them. I think, you know, where they used to be, can't support them anymore. So they need to go somewhere that will support them. I think, you know, Nick Carr is a very smart young man. We have the best business savvy city council that Medford has ever had. These are very bright people. I like Nick a lot on this particular issue, and I think it was quite forthcoming on this. My main issue has been like, okay, baseball could work. Baseball might not work. My point is, I didn't want the taxpayers to be

responsible for baseball working. Can you agree with me on that? I agree with you on that. I think Nick would agree with you on that. Then the other question we need to ask ourselves is, is 10, 15, 20 years down the road, what do we do with all this stuff, you know, once the the road, what do we do with all this stuff? You know, once the clock and the calendar have moved on, what do we do with all this stuff? So that question has to be answered too. All right, very good. Hey Brad, thanks for the call. If you're waiting on hold, I'll get right to you on the Bill Meyers Show.

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That's SimplisafeKim.com. There's no safe like. Here KMED in Krantz Pass on 1059. K290AF Rogue River in South Jackson County on 1067 K294 AS Ashland and we continue calls on conspiracy theory Thursday on the Bill Meyer show 7705633 Randy. Hello Randy, what's on your mind today? Hey Bill. So if we go back in the way back machine to the Clinton era, there was, as you referred to, the DC madam. And this is a parallel case to Epstein.

She was interviewed on Coast to Coast of all shows. And she said that she had the dirt on everybody as she put it all the way to the top, meaning Bill Clinton. And two days after her interview on Coast, she and her assistant were found hanging in her garage and it was ruled a suicide. Sound familiar? Yeah. And this is kind of going back to where are the victims? Why aren't they clamoring for

justice, so to speak? And that's a reasonable question. It's a reasonable question because they're figuring, okay, I'm sorry, I talked over you. Please continue that. Yeah. They'll end up the same way. It'll be a suicide. And they know if they keep their mouth shut, they'll live. I know that there are many people that would like to move on and I get that. I understand though why there are also people that have a rising ire at this at this situation and I have a feeling and this is just me I cannot prove it one way or the other. I think essentially they look in those files and it's too hot to handle.

Would you agree with me? I don't think there's any other way because otherwise you just declassify it, you put it out there and let the chips fall where they may. And that's what President Trump said he was going to do. And now once he's in there, it's all getting reversed. It's kind of how I see it. And some people are saying they would break the brain of America, you know, that kind of stuff. How do you see it? Well, I agree with you. I think that it's too hot to handle. And the mistake, you know, Trump's made some blunders. He believed Fauci. That was huge.

He walked into the trap on January 6th. As soon as Pelosi said, no, I don't want the National Guard, he needed to cancel that rally. But, you know, he's not clairvoyant. And this deal, he thought that that was a good thing, that yeah, we're gonna drain the swamp, which hasn't happened, and we're going to release all the names from the Epstein thing. And that's not going to happen either. He's got himself in a pickle because he made a promise he can't keep. Can't cash that check, right? Exactly. And they've started looking at it and go, ooh, we can't do this. I can envision this as... And like I said, this is pure conjecture on my part, right?

Pure conjecture. I wasn't on Epstein Island, don't have that kind of money and influence. But I'm wondering, okay, how many Saudi sheiks had young boys there? You know, all that kind of stuff. I mean, it's... I don't even know if it's necessarily even our particular government officials. Do you? I think you hit the nail right on the head that it goes, I think you're looking at Prince

Harry. I think you're looking at, it could be the Saudis, who knows? But the mystery is from a math teacher to a billionaire with no apparent, you know, where did the money come from? It's just, it's all so secret. It's interesting this deal with Elon Musk. You know, he got out, he ended up with $175 million when he sold PayPal. He put $100 million into Tesla and $75 million into SpaceX. And as he admitted that he had to borrow money to eat at the time, he did not make his billions selling electric cars or launching rockets.

He made his billions selling carbon credits. And so people need to realize the scam that we're being really scammed. This whole climate change, carbon credit, carbon footprint, it is the biggest scam we have ever endured. And it probably underpins a lot of other scams and griffs in the system too. Well that's the biggie right now, the whole climate change carbon credit thing. There are a handful of people getting really rich. But people also recognize that when President Trump talked about that two-tiered justice system because he was a victim of that, right? He was a victim and many of his supporters were. I think that resonated so deeply. It resonated so deeply with people that, you know, I want

to see powerful perverts get it for once because they never get it. Exactly, and they're not going to. You know, meet the new boss same as the old boss. Hope we won't get fooled again. Who hit it right? Perfect. It hasn't changed much in 54 years, right? Nope, not at all. I think that's when it came out, 71, right? Who's next?

Yeah, something like that. All right. Appreciate the call there. 7705633. Kick it around, all sorts of things this morning. Lynn Barton popped me an email. Email of the day sponsored by Dr. Steve Nelson, Central Point Family Dentistry. centralpointfamilydentistry.com

While you weigh crowns, I had one of them the other day. Man, love it. And now I don't have a hole in my side of my mouth. It's good stuff. They do great work over at centralpointfamilydentistry.com. And Lynn sent me a link from... In fact, I need to call up Naomi Wolf. Naomi Wolf, of course, long-term Democrat and ended up being a big Trump supporter. And she put on her substack, the network in the worlds of the elites, baffled by President Trump's response to the Epstein client list.

I think I get it. And she goes down into it and says, President Trump's response to all this has been startling. He stated that only really bad people, I want to keep something like this going. According to NBC, he also called MAGA supporters of his who are upset at AG Bondi weaklings who bought into the BS. President Trump supporters, including representative Marjorie Taylor Greene and even Alex Jones, furious and calling for full release of the Epstein files. Polls show harm to his support numbers that could threaten the midterms.

Now Democrats are racing to capitalize the Fishers. Conservatives are baffled and Naomi says, my husband, a truly objective man, as well as an ardent President Trump supporter who also worked for numerous intelligence agencies, is puzzled, to the point of wondering if the President is acting uncharacteristically in response to some serious unnamed threat or threats perceived or actual. And Naomi continues, because I spent decades in the same elite liberal circles that sheltered Epstein I'm not puzzled. I think I understand the matrix of

this situation. It has, in my view, to do with the network. I think that it is likely that multiple people who are critical to this administration's success, my guess is that these are mostly guys from Silicon Valley who have been the ones to put the fuel of their billions and their technical and media support into President Trump's campaign, whether they are innocent or guilty, or in the Epstein files. Remember why Mrs. Gates broke up with Mr. Gates? And I think this nation's most important scientists, innocent or guilty, are in the files. And my guess is that the funders have confronted President Trump. Why do I think this? Several clues.

One is the interview of the late Epstein former lawyer Alan Dershowitz with Chris Cuomo. Remember Dershowitz used to represent President Trump as well. Dershowitz confirms that there is a redacted list of people accused of improper conduct, stressed that no one who is a public figure who is in office currently, you get it, is on the list, and called on AG Pam Bondi to ask the New York courts who have custody of this list to release it. There's a lot more too. You know something, Lynn, I think you may have met, maybe Naomi is right, the network. And it is a bipartisan network. It is not just a

Democrat or Republican game. It's just too hot. Too hot, I guess. We got to another call here. Hi, good morning. Who's this? Welcome. Hey, good morning, Bill. This is Michael. Michael, fire away. What do you think? Well, I got a couple of conspiracy theories regarding toilet paper. Okay. That's a nice palate cleanser. Yuck. But go ahead. like cleanser. Yuck. But go ahead. Yeah, I forgot what I was going to say. Well, I'll tell you what, while I put you on hold, I'll take your call in just a second. I got it. You got it? Okay. All right. Do you remember when everybody went out and bought toilet paper a couple years back? Sure do. I think it was a test just to see how well stuff was working.

How well we could be programmed? Just by watching TV, you know, I got these little flashes of information come through, you don't even see them, right? Oh yeah, and they say, oh, the sales of toilet paper have exploded. We know that our mass media psychosis programming, our MKUltra, is successful, right? Yep. Okay. What's the other one?

I got another half. I think the Forever Chemicals, or my theory is that they're in the toilet paper. Oh, PFAS. I'd have to look that up. I'm not aware of them being in the toilet paper, but hey, you could be right. It's part of the industrial process. Thanks, Michael. I'll grab two more calls and then I'm going to take a break. And then we're going to do Kansas Ticket Giveaway, which is going to be a lot of fun. And we'll do that here because Kansas is playing tonight at the Jackson County Fair, Jackson County Expo, okay?

Hi caller, who's this? Good morning. Hey Bill, it's Lucretia. Hi Lucretia. Go ahead. Oh, I want to thank Brad. I never knew that... Elon made all his money in carbon credits, or most of it. Yeah, yeah, that was Randy from Ashland. But I've been talking about that off and on for years too. He never really made money selling cars.

It was about forcing other car companies to pay him for the carbon credit, which is a fake government-created market. Wow. Yeah, do you have any idea why we're having such hot weather? What's changed in our weather pattern? I was thinking it was summer, but you tell me what it is. And you know the week of the Jackson County Fair has traditionally always been one of the hottest weeks of the year. Always has been. Yeah, but how does the jet stream go across country? It goes from west to east, right? Okay. Okay, but it's not doing that. It's only going up and down the coast.

Oh no, which is why we're getting Southern California hot air and desert air, right? Why are all these places like Texas having a thousand-year storm and North Carolina thousand-year storm and New Mexico thousand-year storm? There's more epic storms right now than we've ever seen in the last month. All right. Well, that's because obviously it's the global weather machine you keep talking about, right? Well, the other thing is you'll see all these storms popping up. That's seeding. They're not coming from the ocean across the land. They're picking up out of nowhere, and then they're seeding and then it's just downpour. Well, what explain heat waves here in southern Oregon in the summertime back

in the 1880s? You know, Bill, they had these weather instruments just like they took down stone cities in the past in the 1800s. Okay, you know, my theory here, Lucretia, I'm going to go in there. I'm going to go in there. I'm going to say, yes, there is the global weather machine. And you know what it is? It's a leftover from the days of Atlantis.

It's still operating under the ocean and changing our jet stream even today. What do you think? Well, the heat weapon does raise up the electrical magnetic field of the Earth, and then they can drop it back down and really create quite the earthquake. Okay, good. We can agree a little bit on that. That's what caused the earthquake in Alaska. Thanks for the call. Let me go to one more call, then we're going to do Kansas in a minute, okay? By the way, if you want to win a pair of tickets for tonight's show, Kansas in the Expo, get on it, 770-5633. And anyway, hi caller, who's this?

Hi, it's Monica. Hi, Monica. take it away. Hi. Conspiracy theory Thursday. Yeah, baby. My first instinct was when Pan-Mondi, after all the crap that went ahead, they had the tapes and everything, and she says, but they're all porno tapes and we're not releasing those to the public.

Well, who is on those porno tapes? See, that's the question. It's not about the porno tapes. It's who are the people in them supposedly doing bad things, right? That's right. That's my conspiracy theory for today. All right. I appreciate you making it. Thank you, Monica. Okay. Bye. Okay. All right. We're going to play Know Your Kansas. So I have a great Kansas song, one of their famous songs, and I'm going to play a little bit of it. You just have to tell me what the next line in

the song is. All right. 7705633. You get my final pair. It's reserved seats tonight. Now you can get your own tickets if you need to, but tickets.attheexpo.com. But I can give you a free pair next. Oregon Truck and Auto Authority is the Rogue Valley spray-on bed liner leader for 20 years running. We are excited to upgrade our spray-on bed liner product to legacy protective coatings and join the fast-growing nationwide network of dealers. Our new legacy bed liners are the latest innovations and improvements in spray-on bed liner technology.

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just 12 short minutes down the freeway in Ashen, right off of Exit 19, where you know we've got your truck, your SUV, your certified prionowned and savings. The number F81572 all financing on approved credit, interest accrues from data purchase. You're here in the Bill Meyers show on 1063 KMED. Delighted to have you here. Right now we're going to play Do You Know Your Kansas? Even though I'm starting it with a Stevie Ray Vaughan track, but here I'll stop Stevie Ray because we need to have the sound effect ready for either the winner or the loser here. But I have a pair of tickets for tonight. It's going to be a great show.

Jackson County Expo, Classic Rock Legend, Kansas. And we have Jerry. Hello, Jerry. Good morning, Bill. How are you? I am well. and hopefully you'll be better. Let's see about this. So I have a little bit of a Kansas song, famous Kansas song and then you tell me what the next line is. Okay, it's the... Okay, it's Dust in the wind. Here we go. Okay, it slips away. Here we go. I'll tell you one more time. What is the next line in that song, Jerry, for the win? Oh, come fly with me. Come fly with me. I'm sorry it's not that. I'm sorry, but thank you for trying. Let me go to Chris.

Hello, Chris. How are you doing? Good morning, Bill. How are you? Great. Here we go. And what comes after that? All we are is dust and the wind.

Well, that is part of the chorus, but that's not what comes after this. I am so sorry, but thanks for trying. Let me go to David. Hello, David. Hello, Bill. And what's the next line? Only for a moment and the moment's gone. Oh, that's the first part of it, not this part. I'm so sorry. I get something for singing, don't I? Bill, call me tomorrow for diner 62 we'll talk okay yeah he sang it though I have to give him extra points though if nothing else hello Tom how are you just fine Tom here we go It slips away. What's the next line?

Oh, I'm stumped. I don't have it. Oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah, we're just going to have to continue on. Hi, good morning. Who's this? Logan. Logan, here we go. It slips away. What's the next line, Logan? In all your money won't another minute buy. Let's find out.

And all your money won't another minute buy. There you go. You're a winner! All right, Logan, come on down. We'll have a pair of tickets for you for Kansas. You got to come in and pick it up before five, okay? I'll come see you soon, Bill. All right. Hey, you're very welcome. That's how that gets... You know, I like doing that.

That's an awful lot of fun. I like doing it that way. And thanks for playing along. It's A39. The KMED News Center, here's what's going on. After a brutal drubbing, Oregon boating officials who stated specifically people floating in two inner tubes tied together would need a waterway access permit, they now say you don't. The clarification, as they call it, has to do with House Bill 2982, which was signed into law by Governor Tina Kotech. The state agency clarified this week saying, waterway access permit requirements

does not include single inner tubes or single inner tubes tied together. A man extradited from California, charged with murder 40 years after the victim disappeared. Mark San Fratello was arraigned Wednesday in Josephine County Court. He's accused of killing Teresa Perrone, who was reported missing in 1983

after a party in the Selma area, where she was last seen walking into the woods with San Fratello, who was her boyfriend at the time. Detectives linked the man to her death using DNA techniques. Oregon Governor Tina Kotec has declared a state of emergency due to the threat of wildfire. It takes effect immediately and lasts through the end of the year. Bill London, KMED. This hour of the Bill Meyer Show is sponsored by Fontana Roofing. For roofing gutters and sheet metal services, visit FontanaRoofingServices.com. Hi, this is Bill Meyer and I'm with Cherise from No Wires Now, your DISH Premier local retailer.

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News Talk 1063 KMED. This is the Bill Meyers Show. This is the Bill Meyers Show. Some big challenges in local and independent pharmacies. We've been talking about this off and on. The state legislature was supposed to have done something about it, but ended up punting. I wanted to talk about what is next. Jeff Harrell joins me, and he is the owner of the Cascadia Pharmacy Group.

How many pharmacies do you have here in southern Oregon here, Jeff? Welcome back. Hey, good morning Bill. In southern Oregon we have 10 and we have 11 total in Oregon and then in Cascadia Pharmacy Group, the management company, we represent 41, actually 42 now in four states. So Oregon, Washington, Idaho and now in the tip of California there in Alturas. I know that what you and others, independent pharmacies and small pharmacies, we've been noticing a lot closing, especially many of them in the small towns. There have already been some big competitive pressures here, but we're even seeing big pharmacies shutting down in cities, which is rather disturbing.

And what do you think is driving some of this? I know that you were trying to get House Bill 3212 to reform some issues involving pharmaceutical companies and pharmacy benefit managers. Could you break it down for us? What happened? Yeah, absolutely, Bill. It's actually quite scary and it's disturbing, specifically in Oregon.

Oregon is the number one state in the country for the least amount of patient access right now. With the right-aid closures, Oregon just passed Alaska, if you can believe that. The right-aid closures is unprecedented. We've never seen a big chain completely closes doors. You know, they filed for bankruptcy a couple of years ago. The second bankruptcy just happened.

And now they're they sold off what they could and they're closing the rest. And so in Oregon, the number they were using, you know, about a year, year and a half ago was one hundred and eighteen independents. Well, we just did the math and the map and we have seventy six independents left in Oregon. So 40 went down in just the last year, 40 pharmacies. I think I wouldn't say that. Many have, but I think the numbers were skewed by the people that wanted that 118 that pushed

on the bill and got the bill punted, as you said. So what I did is we did a map and we went through the entire list through the state board and picked the independents out and really got a true data number because that number of 118, although I do think we've lost at least 20, 25, that losing 40 is not correct. The numbers that they were using to say how many independents were out there was not correct. And the problem is, is it's the PBMs, the pharmacy benefit managers. And that's what's caused all of this across the country. But specifically in Oregon, the Medicaid program is a mess. And that's the Oregon health plan. And is part of that then the Oregon health plan doesn't

pay enough? Is that part of it? A hundred percent. So what they've done is they've that then the Oregon health plan doesn't pay enough? Is that part of it? A hundred percent. So what they've done is they've carved out the medication program for the most part to what they call CCOs. And the CCOs are the managed Medicaid portion in Oregon. And those CCOs then contract with PBMs. So the state's not paying us. These PBMs are paying us. And they basically let these

16 CCOs completely erode the reimbursement to pharmacies. And I don't think the CCOs really know what's going on because a lot of these people in these positions don't understand pharmacy and how contracting goes with these PBMs. They're just looking at their bottom line. how contracting goes with these PBMs, they're just looking at their bottom line. I did a little bit of research. There's 16 CCOs and the CEOs, the people running these CCOs account for over $6 million in salaries. And so we got a mess in Oregon. I mean, we have in our stores alone of this 10 I would say two of them are

profitable and when I say profitable they're barely over the black line the rest of them are running in the red and we're just trying to keep them going and until we can get some movement either through the state to a some sort of an emergency injunction or we actually get some legislation passed but I know I'm talking a lot here, but another little fact that in over 13 years, the state of Oregon has not passed one bit of legislation to put one cent in pharmacy's pocket. Jeff, let me take it over then to how does the pharmacy benefit manager impact you in this respect to the point where so many of the small ones, and you know even some of the big ones like BiMart left the industry entirely.

And I think because of this, along with maybe the corporate activity tax too, which I think that exemption for pharmacies didn't get extended this time. So you've got that coming in too? Yeah, yeah, we got that mess too. We found out that that didn't get extended and either they're going to have to pass some single legislation to get that held back from us or again, another issue for profitability of pharmacies. And the reason this is a big deal, I hope I'm right when I say this, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the problem with his corporate

activity tax is that a pharmacy is a high volume, low profit margin kind of business quite often? Is that part of it in which you have a lot of money that goes through it, but you're not making a lot of money with that money? 100%. I mean, and the other, the problem with that tax is it was meant for retail sales and they've lumped the prescriptions in. Well, most pharmacies are 92.8, 92 on the prescription side, 8% out front. And so we're getting taxed on like exactly what you said, high dollars, low margin, and not what it was meant to be put on. And so we got to get the prescription part of it exempt.

And I think the whole thing for pharmacies specifically in Oregon with the landscape, but back to the BiMart, you're right. Bi-Mart left because of these PBM contracts, the egregiousness behind them, the clawbacks, the takebacks, what they call DIR fees, which are have gone away, but it was too late for Bi-Mart. And so what you have is you've got a pharmacy benefit manager that sits between the pharmacy and the payer. In this case, we'll use the CCOs. Like an Allcare, something like that, like Allcare. Exactly, Allcare, Jacksoncare Connect, and Medford is a big one for us.

So Allcare, Jacksoncare, Amqua Health, Samaritan, there's 16 of them. You can Google and find them out on the internet. But so the PBM sits between us and the pharmacy and the CCOs. Let's just use the JacksonCare for lack of a better one. And so what happens is, is that they contract, JacksonCare contracts with the PBM.

The PBM guarantees them X amount of reimbursement or dollars or whatnot. And then the contract with the pharmacy and the PBM either happens directly or is done through a PSAO, which is a pharmacy contracting organization for pharmacies. And there's about a half a dozen of them now. There used to be over 12 or 14, but it's down to about six or eight now. And so what happens there is they, let's just use a $10 prescription.

I run the prescription, the PBM pays me two bucks, and then they charge the CCO 10 bucks. And the CCO thinks we're getting that 10 bucks, but the PBM's keeping the eight. It's called spread pricing. They've been doing it for years. They're absolutely eating us alive. And that's really in a quick and dirty explanation what's going on. The pharmacy benefit manager gets a better price? Oh, hell yeah. Sorry. Okay. Absolutely. The pharmacy benefit manager is making more

money than the pharmacy. You know, they were meant to be kind of a pass-through, but what they're doing is spread pricing or up charging. So if the prescription's totally 10 bucks, they're paying the pharmacy, let's just use West Main and Medford for an example. I get two bucks, the pharmacy benefit manager gets eight bucks, but they're charging the JacksonCare $10.

So JacksonCare thinks I'm getting 10, but really I'm getting two. When you're really getting two, okay. Yeah, and the pharmacy benefit managers keep an eight. And so some of the legislation that we were pushing is that spread pricing in Oregon, but obviously it didn't happen again. Yeah. The problem with this is that a pharmacy benefit manager doesn't provide the pharmaceutical. You do. Why do we need pharmacy benefit managers? Maybe that's a really stupid question on my

part. Bill, it's something that I wish you could shout out loud nationally. That is the question we have all been asking here recently and a lot of legislators across the country, both state and federal, have been asking the same thing. Once they've gone under the covers and have seen this vicious money machine, they're asking why. Why do we need them? And the answer is we don't. Because we could do... There's a lot of transparent PBMs out there where, I mean, some of the states that have moved to a transparent

PBM model have saved millions and millions of dollars by sidestepping these PBMs. But what's happened is the PBMs spend millions and millions in legislative dollars. They're in the ears, you know, in Washington, Oregon, a lot of unions. So they're in the ears of the unions. I can't get to the union leaders and explain what's really going on. They lie. They manipulate the data back to the 118 pharmacies versus really 75, 76. They're giving false data and our legislators just won't stand up to it. You know, like Arkansas did and Alabama and some of these states where they

just said no more. And so this is where we're at. This is the landscape we have in Oregon. And right now I'm in deep talks with OHA and there was supposed to be a meeting yesterday and I didn't, I had nobody called me back, but those independents, so 76, we, you know, we do a weekly or bi-weekly industry call and they're about ready to stop filling. And if they stop filling these claims for the CCOs, Oregon's got a real, real mess. Yeah, everyone has to make enough money to make it worthwhile.

You cannot provide medications at a loss or at too close to the bone, otherwise it just won't work. And I would imagine a lot of these independents are in small towns. Would that be fair? Oh, yeah. Myrtle Creek, Roseburg, you know, Grants Pass, you know, Medford, you know, La Grande, Oregon. We're all, you know, in the smallest communities of Oregon. I mean it's spread out, so almost everything is somewhat rural unless you're, you know, in like Portland in that area. But you

know, you're 100% right. And here's what we're asking for. We're asking for us to just pay us at our cost. What business runs at cost? Right now they're paying us underwater. And so it's just sad that we even have to ask for that. What I preach is profit's not a dirty word. And we as independent community pharmacies, we are a premium product. I mean, we are, most of us are now designated

as critical access or CAP, C-A-P. And because right now we do it all, delivery, bilingual counseling, compliance packaging, medication synchronization. But the state expects you to provide it at a loss. Absolutely, we're getting paid budget rates for premium product. It's insane. All right.

Jeff Harrell, once again, and he's with the Cascadia Pharmacy Group. What can be done at this point because House Bill 3212 was going to try to reform that? It didn't happen. I don't think it got a vote, did it? Or did it not? No. No, they punted it. And there's too many, here's what's going to happen. Too many legislators with alternate agendas. And I said it in an article a little while ago. You know, these are

elected officials. And we have choices of who we vote for. And so that's definitely going to be a push on our side to get the right people in the right spots. Honestly, I think, Bill, what's going to have to happen is the governor and OHA are going to have to do some sort of an emergency injunction or something to pay us a fair and equitable dispensing fee to get us by until we can really get this thing dialed in and fixed. I don't know if that's going to happen. If it doesn't, we're going to stop billing and it's really going to cause Oregon a mess, which then unfortunately, you know, the patients are who have to feel that pain. And that's just not fair to them. And most of these people

that we take care of are the ones that need it most in these rural communities, lower income and different things. And so it's super frustrating for me. I'm also the president of the National Community Pharmacy Organization this year. So we represent the 19,000 independents in the country. And Oregon right now is at the worst state that I've dealt with. And I've traveled all over the country speaking this year. And it's sad.

I mean, it really is. And I'm hoping that Oregon steps up. Like I said, they were going to to me a couple weeks ago and does something in the interim to keep us viable because this current trajectory is unsustainable. Yeah, you can't sell enough of candy and soda and various other things out front to make up for that kind of a loss and also pay the corporate activity tax to the state of Oregon too, right? No, you're spot on. I mean, we buy pretty well because we're a larger group of pharmacies and we're struggling

still. And so I can only imagine what the one-offs and the two-offs, they're on our calls and they're just almost literally in tears, Bill, because their businesses are just hanging on by a thread. And many of them, I mean, I have a case where I bought a couple in Medford there they're not afraid for me to talk about it, Black Oak and Shady Co, the Lick Lighters,

they had leveraged everything possible, including their retirement and leans against their homes to keep their pharmacies open until they met me and we were able to try to get the ship at least turned around. But, I mean, they've worked their whole career to have nothing left and that falls completely on the back of Oregon and I'll stand by that. Jeff, I appreciate it out of time right now, but where can people find out more about this

very key interest issue that's going on right now? Yeah, so we can go to the NCPA website called Finish the Fight. And that'll help you with the legislation part. But really, locally, contact your legislators and tell them that they need to pay independent pharmacy fare and equitable before they lose access and have to drive 100 miles round trip and stuff. So we need them to really push on our local legislators to, to, to move the needle and move the needle quickly.

Jeff Harrell, once again, owner of the Cascade Cascadia Pharmacy Group. Thanks for sharing the information on this big deal. Okay. Thanks Bill. I appreciate you. Hey, appreciate you too. 858. One of each K4, VIN 158, 632, MSRP 24, 165.

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Boy have a great day. See you tomorrow on Find Your Phone Friday. Mark Lee Van Kampen-Robbins coming up next on KMED and KMED HD1 Eagle Point Medford KBXG Grants Pass. We'll catch you tomorrow morning. It's 9 o'clock. KBXG Grants Pass. We'll catch you tomorrow morning, it's 9 o'clock.