Bill Meyer Show Podcast - Sponsored by Clouser Drilling www.ClouserDrilling.com - 07-25-25_FRIDAY_7AM

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

Outdoor report and other news with Greg Roberts at Rogue Weather dot com the Dr. Carole Lieberman MD breaks down the Bryan Kohlberger verdict, discusses INCEL theory and its possible role in the murders.

Here's Bill Meyer. Mr. Outdoors joins me, Greg Roberts at rogueweather.com and the outdoor report sponsored by Oregon Truck and Auto Authority On airway drive in Medford. We appreciate that and Greg before we get into the outdoor report I just wanted to share something with you and I asked you if if you saw the South Park premier This week and you said you had not correct? No. Yeah. Yeah this week and you said you had not correct? No, yeah, I had not. All right, now I haven't watched South Park for a number of years and it's not that I didn't appreciate what they're doing because it really is something a show that would skewer both sides of it even though the guys that are doing it are pure lefties, okay? We know

that. But they did a pretty good job usually askewing, skewering both sides at this point. I think the last time I watched South Park was when they were taking on the transgender agenda and they had Strong Woman, the politically correct woman who is out there, and then getting the daylights kicked out of her by some Randy the Macho Man Savage type character, you know, in a sports competition. Because he was identifying as a woman and he had, you know, huge muscles and hair on his chest, everything like that. And you know something, that was great, that was great satire about where the culture was going as it is corroded, right? And it was perfect. Well, this week, apparently apparently they went after President Trump and they

went after President Trump in a big way, kind of taking, satirizing his lawsuits, the suing of Paramount, which of course is their network. And they had him getting into bed with Satan and you know it's just crudely animated the way they did it with Saddam Hussein back during the war on terror. And Satan even comments that Trump and Saddam are exactly alike, you know, that sort of it's just just bizarre. They really went over the top on this. Now I had not seen the show.

I'm just looking at how it was described here. But there was a PSA because part of the part of the show had Trump suing South Park's town, the actual town of South Park, because they weren't supporting him or whatever reason. And part of the of the settlement, the legal settlement, was that people in South Park had to create PSAs praising the Trump administration. And one of those PSAs praising the Trump administration. And one of those PSAs is out on YouTube right now. The story linked to it, I went to it.

Frankly, if you hate Trump, you love it. And if you love Trump, you're probably not going to like it, but I couldn't believe where they went on this particular situation. He's naked. Trump is naked going across the desert. It's AI generated, right? It's a whole AI generated kind of thing. And shall we say one particular part of Trump's body does the talking and I don't... Do I need to go there? I don't. Yeah, no, I don't think so.

Okay. Yeah. So... I get it. Yeah. No, I don't think so. Okay. Yeah. So I can get I get it Yeah, so we'll just leave it at that now This is coming from a guy back in my rock days when this station was kzze before going talk that uh That I used to interview bill clinton I would interview bill clinton's body part the same way little will we would interview little willy because that was where all the brains of the trim of the of the Clinton administration resided as we well know or remembered back in those days so I could appreciate going there

but it's like oh my gosh here's the issue though Donald Trump has been on a lot of roles here lately but they took the bait They went after it. And White House spokesperson Taylor Rogers slammed South Park in a statement. The Left's hypocrisy truly has no end. For years they have come after South Park for what they labeled as offensive content or offense content, but suddenly they are praising the show, Rogers said. Just like the creators of South Park, the left has no authentic or original content, which is why their popularity continues to hit record lows. And the White House statement continues, the show hasn't been relative for over 20 years

and is hanging on by a thread with uninspired ideas in a desperate attempt for attention. President Trump has delivered on more promises in just six months than any other president in our country's history. And no fourth-rate show can derail President Trump's hot streak. And of course, this was all over truth social too. Same sort of thing. I think that he's probably given that episode more attention than it ever would have gotten or received. There you go. That's the thing right there. He gave that more attention than it ever would have gotten had they just not responded to it. You know, what I do know about South Park, I'm a lot more familiar

with Family Guy. Same guys do it though, right? Same guy. Those two shows share the common trait of everybody is fair game. They're going to skewer everybody. And when I say everybody, I don't just mean politicians. You know, it was kind of funny. Cliff Berrickman from Finding Bigfoot, who now has a North American Bigfoot museum outside of Portland. I remember him telling me that he thought the most surreal thing in his life so far was when they got skewered by both South Park and Family Guy. And that's where Cliff kind of went, wow. Well, you know, the thing about both of those shows, like I said, everybody is fair game.

That especially means politicians. And being far more familiar with Family Guy when you're talking about South Park and Trump being nude, well, I mean, Family Guy went through a whole period of time there where about the only way they portrayed Bill Clinton was either in the nude or getting somebody in the sack. Pretty much.

And they just viciously went after Clinton that way on that aspect. They also took on Obama when very few people out there dared do anything but speak in the most reverent terms about Obama, especially in the entertainment complex. And Seth McFarland and team, oh they went full-on into it and McFarland kind of described it as, yeah we kind of turned Obama into Bart from Blazing Saddles. And it was really, it was very funny, but I know people who got all upset. Now,

those same people are probably loving what South Park did. They're loving what Family Guy has touched on on occasion with Trump. I don't know that they've really gone overboard. Oh, they went overboard on this one with Trump. I don't know that they've really gone overboard. Oh, they went overboard on this one, buddy. They went overboard on this one. They have on every other politician. Yeah, but they definitely went overboard on this one, Mr. Althor. Carlin's like, okay, that's pretty amusing, Trey, and you guys in South Park. Now, let's give it the family guy treatment, which probably will happen.

Yep, indeed. Anyway, I just want to let you know about this because I would have never known about it except that it's now getting coverage and because the White House amplified it and made a big deal. It was the press release that came out there doing this and I was like, oh no, come on man. They didn't want to do anything or say anything about it. And it's because, and let's be honest, the Don is famously thin-skinned, really. I understand. I understand. I probably feel that way, too. I would have loved, though, if someone had said, you know, some people might think it's funny, we don't, but then we're not the audience, and then you just move on. Exactly. And that's the only way you handle it instead of going on big tirades. Just go, well, you know, yeah, we're all pretty outraged at what happened to Kenny,

and the show was the show. Boom. And that's that. Yeah, and off we go. Okay. Let's shift that into the outdoors. Anything going on that we need to know about as far as fire, public land stuff that is going on this weekend, and where are we looking as far as climate, too? Weather? No, we're actually, it's kind of amazing. I posted a picture yesterday on our socials over on Facebook and MeWe and I showed that the only fire in Northern California, Oregon, Washington, and Idaho at that point that you could even see anything happening from was the Butler fire Down in extreme Western, Siskiyou County, and I said, I don't know how much longer this lasts

But let's enjoy it while we've got it. Well yesterday We did get dry lightning develop across Northern California a bit into Klamath Lake You know southeastern Oregon saw Sod as well, over into northern Nevada. I do know that Cal Fire, Siskiyou County, was very busy last night. They had fire starts all over the place because they had very little rain with the thunderstorms that developed, which we were kind of expecting that there could be some dry storms, but it was also expected we would see storms get progressively wetter as the day and the evening went on. Well, that didn't exactly work out to be the case. So we're going to wait and see what happens in

Siskiyou County. Fortunately, where Oregon is concerned, the lightning activity was the southern end of Klamath and Lake counties. I haven't seen any reports yet on if they picked up fire starts and how many, but I know they were sure chasing a lot down there Siskiyou County and also out in Modoc County. So we'll see how successful the initial attack is. The same areas that had red flag warnings for lightning striking dry fuels, gusty outflow winds, have it again today. Although I will say the action when we look at the models and what's going on, it looks like the bulk of the action

today is definitely going to be Lake and Modoc counties, maybe a slight chance in Klamath County for the forecast I do for the Klamath Basin. I did go ahead and include a chance for showers and storms because it's that chance, and it's mostly that southern end of Klamath County that has any kind of chance at all. Medford Grants Pass, we're gonna miss this, and thank goodness we are. You know, it's just, it's kind of the funny thing with thunderstorms. First people start praying that there's no lightning. Well, that's kind of impossible, and it's also an act

of God. It's part of God's creation. So I've never understood people praying for no lightning and praying for no fires, because both things are going to happen. And also honestly, by design for the environment, I've said it before here, I'll say it again. There are literally dozens of things out on the landscape that are dependent upon fire for the natural process of their life cycle. Pretty much everything here has evolved with fire on the landscape. Taking fire away from the landscape is still pretty much a relatively new thing, and we're

just starting to see the more dire consequences of that. Yeah, but to be fair, you can't put lots of fire on the landscape where we're living. You have to be balanced in that approach. We can't have big, massive fires in areas where we live if we can help it. Right. Otherwise, we can't live here. The flip side of that, what I'm also starting to see is a big push, including from organizations that we do away with the way resources are called up to fight fire, especially the way the feds do it. We will have the resources we need to take on a fire here in Jackson

County, sitting in Jackson County, and the government is going to use their resource list and they may call for resources from clear across the country before they will call up a resource here locally. Why is that? Practice has to end. It just has to end. No, why is that though? It doesn't make sense.

Because the government wanted to be fair and equitable, and so they put up lists that give priorities to, and I'm not kidding, women-owned firefighting business, disabled-owned firefighting businesses, and veteran-owned firefighting businesses, and they don't care where those businesses are at. If they're up on the call list, and in one example from the Western Association of Fire Contractors, they talk about an engine that was called from New Jersey to come all the way out here to Oregon to Oak Ridge, spent 14 days fighting fire, took them nearly a week to get out here, took them nearly a week to get back home. They broke it all down and said it essentially caused that engine

from New Jersey to be committed to 14 days of firefighting in Oregon, 28 days. Meanwhile, engines sitting here in Oregon that could have, should have been on those fires never got called at all because of how the federal government has been doing things. Now what everybody is saying, especially in contractor world, this is the best opportunity we're ever going to have to fix that because, well, there are new sheriff in town in DC and there is now a whole new policy and viewpoint and a way of looking and engaging fires. And we just saw it with the July 7 lightning burst here in Southern Oregon and

Jackson and Josephine counties. Yes, ODF got right to their business and did a great job and had all fires contained within five days. But I saw more action quickly, directly from the Rogue River Siskiyou National Forest on the fires that they had than I probably have seen since the 1990s and I am not kidding. That's good news actually. Greg, I wanted to touch on something else though. So they brought an engine from the East Coast. Did they have to drive it out here or did they truck it out here? How did they get it out here? They drove a fire engine, but it probably gets what?

Five, six miles a gallon on the diesel? Yeah, you could say that and of course it's going to be diesel and those things the governor's on them for using them on the fire ground climbing mountains doing that kind of stuff. They're really low geared and that works great. Transporting them, driving them across country, low geared, governored, that doesn't work great. That is one of the most stupid plans or programs. That's one of the dumbest plans that I've ever heard of to drive a fire truck from New Jersey or the East Coast out here to fight a fire in Oregon. That's insanity. And we have the exact same type engine sitting out here in Oregon ready to go and they didn't get called because of how the federal government has put their VIPER list together. Is there a call to change that program, that VIPER list? Absolutely.

That's why we're seeing the contractors, the firefighting contractors, which by the way, Oregon is the epicenter of that. We have more private contract firefighting services for wild land out here in Oregon than any other state in the nation. And I fully get what those guys are saying. One of the things I have heard repeatedly since I was fighting fire and I was a guy needing to get resources to the fires that I was involved with directly, I had person after person tell me when the Viper List and all of this first came to be, they were saying, oh man, if you were still in

the firefighting business, you'd go absolutely nuts over this. Because I wanted what I wanted when I needed it right now, and I definitely did not want to wait for an engine to come from New Jersey when I'm trying to defend property and even lives. I want those resources immediately available. I never had to deal with that insanity. That's just nuts. And I hope they fix that up. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I had no idea. I had no idea. I know nothing about that world. That's why I talk with you about it. So Greg, final question here. Hey, I'll tell you what. Get Mike from Grayback in, get him on your show and have a conversation about this. Now, Grayback is a preferred contractor for the federal government and for the state of Oregon. They definitely get calls other contractors do not get, but he's in the association he knows what's going on

and I know he can really get into this with you far better than I can especially being the guy who runs grayback and he's very well aware of what's going on out there. All right very good. Hey Greg I'm turning into a bit of a pumpkin here so why don't you give me a quick fishing report on where you would go if you wanted to wet a line this weekend? Where would you go? You know, definitely it's call your shot because we're not going to have hot weather and we're not going to have thunderstorms. It's going to be a really

great weekend to be in the outdoors, so take your pick. Lake or ocean? Because either one would be great and Honestly the way the ocean setting up and what I have been seeing lately from Charter operators going out after tuna I would probably do the ocean and go tuna fishing because there's been some great tuna fishing and you're only having to run About 50 miles out of Winchester Bay, but the operators out of Winchester Bay this last week, it's on like Donkey Kong, as you would say, Fortuna.

And again, about 50 miles out, that's not having to make that far of a run, especially considering you can be going as far as a hundred miles out before you'll find the water conditions that the tuna are in. So about half the distance, all of the fun. Boy, I'll tell you what, the boats this week running out of Winchester Bay, limit on tuna is 25. That's a lot of sushi. Let me tell you, they're big fish

aren't they? They average, some years we're looking, last year was one of those, about a 20 pound average. This year it looks probably like a smaller class of fish, more in the 12 to 15 range, but when you can get 25 of them I don't think anybody cares too much and definitely a buddy of mine Travis Marsh runs Southern Oregon anglers fishing and charter out of Winchester Bay they went out to 50 and they just literally to use the term they just killed it because they came back to the all the clients had as much tuna as they wanted to have, and Travis was talking about this and he said, we could have

easily limited out had the clients really wanted to do it, but everybody is suddenly looking at all these tuna and going, no, we think we're good here. Yeah, we got enough. All right, hey, Greg, appreciate the update and keep us in the room if anything breaks out over the weekend, but I'm glad to hear that we're probably not gonna hear much about the lightning strikes in our area.

That's good, we'll take that. The hard part will be watching what develops down in Northern California because you get long sustaining fires and it raises the likelihood of impactful smoke hitting us. And I've got to say, I have been hugely surprised that we have not been picking up smoke from the Butler fire coming north,

getting into the Grants Pass Medford area. I would have fully expected that. And, you know, mercifully, the way the winds have worked out We just we haven't had very much of that happening When we had our local fires starting on July 7th We had a couple of days there where we we had moderate to unhealthy for sensitive groups to unhealthy for sensitive groups type air quality but we still haven't seen the type of very degraded air quality that I think we're gonna wind up seeing

later coming August and September. We're gonna grab the good air while we can. All right Greg, we'll catch you next Friday and now something breaks before that point but Rogueweather.com is where you keep up on all those kind of news too and I appreciate the take as always. Be well. You got it Bill. All right. Outdoor report is sponsored by Oregon Truck and Auto Authority on Airway Drive in Medford. Two dogs fabricating are fabulous at Fabric...

Hi, this is Mark from J. Austin, and I'm on KMED. Dr. Carol Lieberman, MD, joins me. MPH. Also known worldwide as America's Psychiatrist to the Terrorist Therapist, and she's the host of Dr. Carol's Coach on VoiceAmerica.com. Also the Terrorist Therapist with a little registered bubble next to it, a Terrorist Therapist Registered Bubble podcast. I don't know if they actually say registered bubble or not. What do they call that?

Is it just a trademark kind of thing? Yes, a trademark, registered trademark. Yeah, there we go. Forensic psychiatrist, expert witness, best-selling award-winning author of four books, two on terrorism, two on relationships. And I wanted to talk with you, Dr. Carroll, about Brian Coburger. And I would imagine you kept big track of this case, this bloodthirsty guy ended up bludgeoning murdering four Idaho college students. And everybody heard about this and he was sentenced

this week to four life prison sentences without a possibility of parole. But he wasn't required to say anything about that. Did that surprise you as someone who has testified in in these kind of trials? Well, you know this trial has or this case has been nothing like any other case But you know, there's a lot of controversy about that. I mean even President Trump weighed in said that he wanted Koper gonna to have to explain why he did it. Of course, if Koberger had said something, in the end, he said after the impact statements,

the victim's impact statements, the judge asked him, you know, you are entitled to say something, and he said, I respectfully decline. I don't think there was any respect in there. Sure. I don't think there was any respect in there. So, yes, and of course the parents, you know, everybody, not just the people involved as the victims, you know, related to the victims, but the whole world wanted to know why. But you know what? In the end, what he would have said wouldn't have been, first to the extent that he even understands why, he wouldn't have really been, it wouldn't have been the truth, it wouldn't have been, first to the extent that he even understands why, he wouldn't have

really been, it wouldn't have been the truth. It wouldn't have been. So in the end, I think it was better that he didn't say anything. Because if he could have said something that would have made the victim's families feel even worse, you know, they could have, he could have said anything. But as you know, I'm not sure if we ever talked about this before, but I know, but I have been saying since, since the murder happened in, which was November 13th, 2022, I have been saying that the person who killed these people before they, in other words, before they arrested Brian Coburg I had no idea who the murderer was but I said it was someone who was an infel and I how did I know that well the two we we knew a couple of things about

the murder first of all that it was incredibly bloody a number of the people who investigated and went into the crime scene said it was the bloodiest crime scene they had ever seen. And we knew that the murder was done with a knife. That each of these four victims had been knifed. And a knifing is up close and personal, right? There's a lot. Exactly. Now, I have heard that term or have read this from time to time, in cell theory, and I've

never really looked deeply into it. What is in cell theory to begin with? And I imagine if I don't know, maybe a lot of other people don't know what this is too. Sure, sure. Actually, it's an increasing phenomenon. And in cell is involuntarily celibate. Basically guys who have not been able to get a woman to have sex with them. Well, I have been incel at various times in my life as a young man. But I didn't go out and murder people. That's the additional part of it. It's not just that they're virgins. It's that they

have built up from the beginning, from the time that women started rejecting them, or they imagined that women would be rejecting them. They have built up this rage, which is so, that's how I knew because it's up close and personal and it's very bloody and then and I was even quoted in the in Newsweek on November 28th Saying this so I I have it in print I was the first one to say it And then as we came to and then they arrested Brian Koberger and then as we came to know more about him It he really did fit the bill. He really you know, there were a number of things First of all, you know, he does have problems with women.

He hasn't had a girlfriend. He presumably is a virgin, involuntarily. And a key thing is that the first girl, his first love, and the first one who rejected him in a major way was his first love in middle school, this blonde cheerleader in middle school. So what does that say? What a coincidence that the two people he was primarily after were Maddie and Kayleealey now i know there's some you know some of the some people are saying uh... because he went into maddie's room first and because caley had already moved out of the house a little bit before but

she happened to be there that weekend and they stopped people some people are saying that he they think his main target with maddie i actually i'm not so sure about that. I think it was Kaylee because Kaylee was the only one whose face he destroyed with a knife. And so you know the instels hate the women who particularly who well they hate women in general because women have not given them the time. They have rejected them yeah sure. Rejected them right and so it's clear, there isn't any proof that he actually went up to either Kaylee

or Maddie and asked them to go out with him. But he knew by then, by all the other women, all the other Kaylee and Maddies who rejected him in the past, he knew that they would or he assumed that they would. And you know, because they were the beautiful people. And that was the part of it when they when they said who the victims were. So the good these are the girls who you know who the the incels really, they call them Stacy's. And they call the guys who go out with the Stacy's, you know, who are fortunate to get the love of the Stacey's, they call them Chad.

Oh, so that's where the Stacey and Chad, I would see that term used in social media. I'm sorry to sound so ignorant about that. No, no. A lot of people don't know this. So Ethan, who was there with Zana, he was her boyfriend, he was a Chad. So that's why he killed him too. But, so you know, it's up, it hasn't been proven one way or the other. We'll ever know whether his main target was Maddie.

But it would sound like though that Maddie matched his physical type, the one who rejected him, right? They both looked like the girl in middle school. In fact, there was an article in the Daily Mail recently that I was quoting and talking about this, and they put the picture up of the two of Kaylee and Maddie and of this girl from middle school. And boy, you know, they're like twins. So this appears to be more of that, more than maybe what they had done or not done to him in any kind of interaction.

Was there ever any evidence that there was ever any interaction before the actual murder night? You know? It's kind of questionable, but there is some, you know, with the information that the police just put out, there is some suggestion that Koberger had been, had been stalking them. I mean, this came out before, actually, I had heard it before, and I spoke about it before that, that because in fact, Kayleigh, and her father talked about this, that Kayleigh felt that somebody was stalking her.

And she told the school. And they did absolutely nothing. And so, you know, I mean, it's really sad when you think that there could have been this could have been prevented. Dr. Carol Lieberman, MD with me, MPH. By the way, what is MPH? By the way, what does that stand for? Master's in Public Health. Thank you. By the way, what is MPH? By the way, what does that stand for? Masters in Public Health.

Thank you. Okay. See, I always want to know. I knew you would being the master. Okay. So, Dr. Carol, you see a story like this and normally in our talk radio world, we react with kind of an outrage of, I think we were kind of baying for his blood, really. You know, you see someone like this, you know, someone like this, Coburger, is never going to be cured per se. Would you agree with me on something like that? No, you're not gonna fix someone who's broken like this. There's no fixing this kind of break? Well, I mean, not today, but he could have been fixed, at least to the point where he wouldn't have carried out this kind of a murder. He could have been fixed, at least to the point where he wouldn't have carried out

this kind of a murder. He could have been fixed if he had been put into therapy when he was a little boy. Would they have known, would anybody have looked at Brian Kohlberger and known that he was a problematic boy that needed some therapy or not? I don't know. Yes. I think they would have. You know, because I mean we know that now or well you know it's kind of we might have

there were hints of it before. He had he was diagnosed like you know when they had mental health professionals evaluate him. I think the defense did that to try to see if there was any hope of not guilty by reason of insanity, which there wasn't, but they did find that he had autism. Now autism alone would not have predicted that he would have gone out and conducted a quadruple murder. But it does indicate a miswired brain or a differently wired brain, right? Yes, as does the visual snow syndrome that he had. This problem where when he looked out at the world, he saw what we used to see on black and white television, the snow, the black and white dots. Now, I don't know that this has continued. He seems to have adapted to it if it did continue.

I have never heard of that aspect of what being a symptom of some people with autism spectrum that have that? No, no. Well, I mean it also has a problem with the wiring of your brain. It's not necessarily always found with autism. But what I'm saying is that even you know, even when he was a little boy or at least like, like, and certainly by junior high school, you know, when he had this reaction to being rejected by this blonde cheerleader, if he had been in therapy then

they could have explored, you know, his rage at being rejected, which continued in high school and continued to the day that he murdered these four. So that's the part, you know, this psychopathy or sociopathy, that's the part that could have been... I mean, you know, that's always very difficult to try to treat in anyone, but it could have been addressed and something could have helped it. I don't think, I think this murder, this quadruple murder could have been stopped

if he had been in therapy ever since he was young. Dr. Carol Lieberman, MD with me once again. Doctor, is there any chance that, I know they say that he's going to be in prison for the rest of his life, for life terms, without possibility of parole. in prison for the rest of his life for life terms without possibility of parole. In the real world does without possibility of parole stick or not? Well that is the $64,000 question because if I don't know if you were watching the sentencing I was glued to it all day. It was really powerful. There's these victim statements. It was hard to handle.

I would dip in and out of it when it was on because it was just so heart wrenching, really, to see the family members there. Yes. So at the end of it, when the judge made his statement, he said he kind of slid in something about because that he had the possibility to ask for like a retrial or to ask for you know another sentence or another you know he kind of he kind of slid, he said something like, you could ask, but basically what he was saying was it would put this plea deal in jeopardy. He didn't say those words, but he was saying that could be dangerous if you ask for another

trial. Why do you think they went for a plea deal? I know you're not an attorney, but you've watched enough of these and been involved in these kinds of trials to maybe kind of understand, you know, even how the lawyers are approaching this process. Well, you know, you know, I'm a forensic psychiatrist and an expert witness. So I've testified in many murder trials and all kinds of trials. The only time that you would, well the thing is his lawyer Ann Taylor had really, she worked you know really really hard on

this case. You kind of have to give her credit. But all the different avenues that she had, that she tried to things that she tried to get admitted into the trial. The judge just shot her down, you know. And so it came to the point where it was looking like the trial was going to go on and these things that she had hoped for to try to get or like the main thing was she was hoping for this questionable issue about the DNA. The main evidence that they had against him was his DNA that he left on the night sheath on the bed, which you'd think after all his courses, including in how not to get caught,

how not to leave any evidence at a crime scene. I mean, for someone who was so smart, he did a lot of stupid things involved in this, right? Well, yes. But I guess he didn't anticipate that when you're in the middle of it, it's a frenzy and you can't think as clearly as when you're a student and writing an essay. So there was a question about the DNA because they sent it to a, the first place they sent it to, the normal place that just DNA goes to, where they check it against CODIS, which is all the DNA samples that the police have all over the country, if not the world.

And to see if it matches, like somebody who had some kind of an arrest. And they tried that first, of course, that always is what happens first, and they didn't get a match. And so then they went with the FBI, they went to different sources of DNA, places like ancestry.com or things like that, that people put their DNA into in order to try to find their relatives. It's amazing how many criminals have been caught that way too from other family members having volunteered. But you know, technically, you are not supposed to go to those kinds of databases.

Oh. Because there are only certain databases where the people who put their DNA check the box that said that they give permission for their DNA to be looked at publicly. Oh, so there was some iffy permission on getting that DNA database for that purpose. I understand that. So that might have caused problems moving forward in the trial then for the prosecution? Except that the judge shot that down. Yes, his attorneys were hoping for that. Yeah, but I'll bet you on appeal that would have been used, right? It might have been.

Yeah. So, I don't know. You know, when the judge said this thing about, you know, you could appeal, but, and then it wasn't clear what the but was, he had this smirk on his face. And I don't know, I think that, I mean, he wants, besides wanting to kill the Stacey's, okay, of the world, he also wanted to be known as a famous killer, a famous criminal, especially a killer, a murderer. Because you know, in his courses, he wanted to be one of the ones that books were written

about that future students would have to study. And actually his teacher, his professor from college, Dr. Ramsland, who has written many books on murderers, she has made it clear, she announced it to the industry in an interview, you know, the media has reported that she wants to write a book with him. Now, he is what's going to be a better, you know, a better prize than writing a book with your professor that will put you down in history as being this, you know, amazing murderer. Yikes. Okay. That's now he cannot profit from that though, correct?

No, he can't profit financially, but certainly he profits from his ego profit. Got it. I really appreciate the take on this. Before you take off, I wanted to ask go back on the incel theory you were discussing a little bit earlier. Given the rise of online porn and also the changing, well the challenges between men and women you know these days, not necessarily meeting eye to eye even on the dating scene and more and more men withdrawing from that and you know you read about this in which they kind of retreat into porn and not really getting involved in relationships. Do you see more Brian Kobergers out there being made

or is being an incel not necessarily meaning you're mentally ill like he is or broken? Well, an incel is a category or a syndrome phenomenon in itself. You could have various mental illnesses or not have any other than being an in-cell. I guess I'm talking about the walk away movement in which you're hearing about this and some men are just like saying, hey, I'm just going to withdraw entirely away from the dating

scene and not wanting to get together. Family formation, all those kind of cultural challenges we're looking at these days. Yes, of course the walk away is better than being an instill, but no there are, the instill movement is growing because because you know making finding relationships is harder and harder has become harder and harder for many different reasons and so some you know might decide to walk away and say I I don't need this. Others have so much rage from being rejected so many times or in a really hurtful way that they take it out like Brian Coburger. But the fact that there are these chat groups online where they edge each other or egg each

other, urge each other on, yes, these women are horrible and all these things, we'd like to do them. Yes, this woman did such and and all these things we'd like to do them. Yes, you know, this woman did such and such to me and I'd like to kill her. I'd like to kill her in this way. You know, they really, they really increased the rage in each other. Spooling it up. Once again, Dr. Carol Lieberman, it's a pretty thought-provoking stuff. I'm gonna have to roll that around my head because I actually have a relatively normal relationship with my wife, and I'm happy and, you know, just feeling blessed about that. So if a murder happens in your neck of the woods, it's not you. It's not me, okay. I appreciate the take.

Are you writing about this anywhere? Are you doing this on any of your shows, your online shows or something? Well, I've spoken about it somewhat on my Voice America show, Dr. Carol's Couch. I've been riding up a storm on Twitter. So if people want to, my Twitter feed is Dr. Carol, M-D-R-C-A-R-O-L-E-M-D. All through the sentencing I was putting up tweets, commenting on it so people can look at that. All right.

Appreciate it, doctor. Great having you on. Thank you so much again. I'll put all your information up. You're very welcome. Be well. This is KMED and KMED HD1.