Bill Meyer Show Podcast - Sponsored by Clouser Drilling www.ClouserDrilling.com - 08-13-25_WEDNESDAY_7AM

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

08-13-25_WEDNESDAY_7AM

The Bill Meyer Show podcast is sponsored by Klausur drilling. They've been leading the way in Southern Oregon well drilling for over 50 years. Find out more about them at Klausurdrilling.com. Here's Bill Meyer. 11 after 7. I'm sure glad you're waking up here this morning. Free speech, of course, one of the main reasons I'm able to exist here as a talk show host in Southern Oregon, Northern California, and also with your listenership and advertise your support and everything else. Appreciate it all.

it's interesting to look though that when you look around the world and even look at the United States off and on over the years especially during the last four or five six years that free speech is not the default position and the default position of the world is starting to look really sketchy in fact there's even talk that our allies are trying to reach into the United States more and more and censor us we as Americans I want to talk about this with the Media Research Center, MRC's Free Speech America, and Michael Morris joins me from that group. How are you doing this morning, Michael? Welcome. Good morning. Thanks for having me on the program. Great.

I appreciate it. So Free Speech America, I don't have to ask what you're all about. It's right there in the name, okay? Could you tell us about what this really fascinating story first appeared in the daily caller, but it's gaining some traction. This is a big deal. What's happening to, well, what people are thinking will happen to Americans when you end up traveling, you know, outside the country, you find yourself landing in the UK and what, busted for a hate crime, that kind of thing? Well, look, it might be time to issue a travel advisory for Europe, right?

Free speech overseas is under assault. The United Kingdom, for example, arrested 12,000 people in the years 2022 and 2023. Germany has conducted 50 pre-dawn armed raids in a single day, and it's not limited to just Germany or the U.K. Similar persecution is occurring across other European nations as well, Romania, France, Finland. And what exactly is going on? The U.K., the EU, Brazil, other countries, they're actually threatening the United States and its citizen rate and its companies. For example, the U.K. Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Mark Rowley actually threatened to, quote, throw the full force of the law, unquote, at foreigners for their online speech. The European Union Commissioner actually warned that Donald Trump and Elon Musk that they better not say anything that would be illegal in the EU.

And this was during an ex-interview on American soil. Brazil actually issued an arrest warrant for an American citizen after trying to censor her speech online. Now, Michael, my initial core American reaction to something like that would be, okay, you European toadies, and the horse you rode in on. That's the phrase. It would end with and the horse you wrote in on. Okay? You know what I'm talking about. And so, but my point is, as a point of law, do they have teeth to go after America and Americans?

Well, what's incredible here is they're not just pressuring Americans. They're actually going at the big tech companies themselves, and they're trying to do it as a back door to get it Americans, and they're doing it for these American companies. So, example, EU and the U.K. are actually pressuring big tech companies. Mark Zuckerberg claims that the EU alone has fined big tech companies over $30 billion. Okay. That is massive leverage. over these tech companies to silence American free speech. Now, yeah, $30 billion is not a small amount of money even for Facebook, right?

Absolutely right. And look, they've gone after tech CEOs as well. For example, Telegram CEO Pavel Durov was actually imprisoned, and they were pressuring him to remove content from his platform related to the Romanian election. Musk has also been targeted by France and the EU, which could lead to, massive fines, again, like in the case of Zuckerberg and meta, but also potential de-platforming of the X platform in the European nations. Are we seeing, I'm trying to think of how this ends up going, because it does appear that

the Germany's, the France's, the U.Ks, everything seems to be going in the direction of censorship, and there are certain opinions you are not allowed to have. And I can't help but think, is a lot of this being driven by, well, let's just put it this way, what they would term anti-immigrant. I'm going to put it in scary air quotes, Michael, anti-immigrant talk because they have been so overrun and so completely, I guess, you know, cowed by hordes of illegal immigration, you know, going on their shores. And I'm wondering if that's part of what's going on. What do you think? Well, absolutely right. You know, a lot of it does have to do with the legal immigration,

but it's not just that. If you speak out against, you know, a European commissioner, if you speak out against a parliamentarian, if you speak out against a local leader, they're censoring your speech online, and in some cases they're coming after you and trying to levy criminal charges against you and taking your devices, et cetera.

Oh, they're going after you for political speech. They're going after you for political speech, disagreeing with your government then or your people. Okay. Absolutely right. Yeah, terrifying stuff. And what's crazy is these people are the same people that say that they believe in free speech. You know, I'll quote one of my favorite movies here.

You know, you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. I guess so, Michael. Now, what has the response been from the United States government, or has there been a response up to this point? Because remember, I don't want to say our hands are clean on this because, frankly, our government and even the Trump administration, in different directions, wishes to censor speech. I mean, every administration wants to get rid of speech that they don't like in one form or another. Everyone does it at some point. It's a matter how it's successful they are or how really serious they are.

But how have we responded to the U.K., wanting to say, hey, we're going to, you know, arrest your Americans for saying the wrong things on an American platform in America. Well, they're in America, but if they come visit, forget about it, huh? Well, look, I'm glad you asked that question. Donald Trump's administration has been one of the best. on free speech in modern American history. His first day in office, he actually issued an executive order, putting an end to federal government censorship nationwide. And week two, he passed an executive order on AI doing similar ending the Biden era,

tyranny on artificial intelligence. But there's more that's been done. Chairman Jordan, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, has actually issued subpoenas to big tech companies to turn over all examples of pressure that are coming from overseas and that on an ongoing basis so that we can see which countries are actually pressuring us. And Donald Trump's doing more, too. Just last week, President Trump actually issued Global Magnitsky Act to impose sanctions on

the Brazilian Supreme Court Justice Alexander DeMorres for pressure that he's been exerting on American citizens and tech companies. So Brazil is, no, hold on, Brazil is pressuring our high-tech companies to do what? what he's trying to do is he's trying to prevent them from from having speech in Brazil he wants to be able to pressure them to censor content on the platform there boy how do you fight this I'm trying to figure how this how this battlefield will end up looking because the whole purpose of the internet in the first place was pretty much to we get all connected we're able to connect back and forth

and communicate, and we were going to bring in this wonderful thing, and so now you get arrested or, you know, you're putting the gulag, let's say, whether it's an electronic gulag or others, for saying the wrong thing about your particular government, but yet we have a First Amendment. Most of the world is not, right? Isn't this really what we're finding ourselves up against. Absolutely right. Look, this is anti-free speech, anti-freedom values of the European Union of foreign nations versus American values of liberty and justice for all and for free speech.

And look, America has to win this battle. It appears that Trump administration realizes that and is trying to push their hearts in that direction. And we have to win this fight, not just for America, but for the globe, so that we don't fall to tyranny. Okay. Yeah, there is one thing I would push back a little bit about Donald Trump has been very good for many points of free speech. However, Donald Trump and supporters in the administration are very big on conflating any criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism. All right? That's something that I've had had an issue with, and they've even worked to codify that. So that

would be on the negative side, wouldn't you think? So it's not all, it's not all just completely out and open. What do you think? Well, look, the answer to bad speech, as I'm sure you're aware, is not suppression of speech, it's more speech. And allowing those that you disagree with to speak and to have their voices heard is of the utmost importance for all Constitution believers and free speech prognosticators out there. So, you know, to the extent that any speech that is contrary to the Constitution is being suppressed, that that's something that we wouldn't want to happen, but, you know, the answer to bad speech is more speech, not less, not censorship. Michael, you and I agree on this wholeheartedly, okay? Now, a question I have, though, about what

they're doing overseas. Is this leaking into the international court in any way, you know, when the globalist courts end up getting together and saying, the EU says this and we're going to go after the United States? Is it leaking into this, or is it still just at this point, just wanting to arrest Americans that say the wrong things when they, end up showing up at Heathrow. Well, so what's happening is they're actually legislating this. So whether or not it's made it through the courts or not yet, I'm unclear on that. But there's a thing called the DSA and the DMA, and both of these are massive anti-free

speech legislation that have been passed through the European Union. And again, what they're trying to do is they're trying to pressure big tech companies using a backdoor of global suppression to come after speech, not just a broad. but also here in America, big tech companies have to adhere to these extremely stringent speech codes in Europe, then they're likely going to try to tailor their rules and even their, their, their quantification of their own content moderation policies on their own platforms in America as well. And so that's what's going on, is they're pressuring through the back door these big tech companies to silence their citizens and then also those in other nations as well. And I would imagine the rise of artificial intelligence is going to make it even easier to crack down on its citizenry. Look, you nailed it.

The same companies that are the heads of these social media companies are also the same companies that are making AI platforms in many cases. You've got Google Gemini. You've got XAI, which is GROC. You've got meta-a-i. You've got Amazon Web Services, which actually has a deal with Anthropic. And it's just on down the line. So, yeah, you know, the censorship that had happened on big tech platforms during the COVID era and after, and even before that, actually, is now bleeding over into artificial intelligence. And we're seeing massive amounts of media bias there as well.

Maybe we should just turn the Internet off to Europe. You okay with that? Can we do that? Just kidding. This is a, all right, hey, the Internet, we made up, we created the Internet. We created the Internet here, okay? All right, forget about it. You don't get it. I know, I'm just kidding around with you, Michael.

Is there a serious response from the United States at this point? What are they doing to fight back and protect the people here so that what they say here doesn't get themselves in trouble elsewhere around the country, around the world, rather. Pardon me. Right. So like I said earlier, the Trump administration has actually used the Global Magnitsky Act to impose sanctions on others. And it's just starting with that Brazilian Supreme Court justice that I mentioned earlier. You know, they're going after them, they're subpoenaing the records from big tech companies

when there's censorship pressure from overseas. And then these executive orders are massive, but we need to have it codified as well. Free speech should be the utmost importance. It's sad to say that in America today, we actually even have to talk about these things. These are things that are enshrined in the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States. But here we are, you know, after a tyrannical. Biden administration used a whole of government approach to go after our American speech. And we're talking about having to actually protect American rights, both here and abroad, because governments

the world over have been going after speech. You know, Michael, it's one of those things where, once again, I would just add in, the horse you wrote in, it's what I want to say to these people. But they're trying to do this. But like I said, they're imprisoning their own people, you know, overseas. And this is something which is something I hope that can be tamped down and doesn't spread. Well, I heard Lars Larson one of our talk shows in the afternoon yesterday talking about a girl, like a 12-year-old girl who in the United States that ended up being arrested, strip searched, and videotapes showering when she was nude. She was taken in by the police because she had done a joke post on online social media and artificial intelligence that

the school district was using to monitor posts. She ended up saying, oh, she's a threat. And so she was dragged in. So we have a lot of work to do on what's a real threat and what's not and what should actually get you into prison, wouldn't you say? Pretty bizarre story. That's, you know, that's terrifying. And look, it's no stretch to say that if this sort of suppression, this sort of censorship is happening all across the globe, it certainly creeped in the United States as well. Again, I mentioned COVID-19 earlier. Yeah.

Our American government was working with tech companies to flag and suppress content. here in the United States, if you spoke your mind on on any number of issues during the COVID-19 pandemic at the height of it. And so, yeah, that sort of thing happens here in the United States as well. And that's why free speech is such an important thing to fight for. And MRC has the receipts. And we're doing our darndest to make sure that the American people's values are upheld. I appreciate you mentioning that. By the way, what is your website, Michael? Yeah, it checks out on MRC-freespeechamerica.org. Again, that's MRC-FreeSpeechamerica.org.

You can also check out some of our content over at newsbusters.org, our partner under the MRCM. I always appreciate that. By the way, you were talking about what got you in trouble during the COVID time, especially. All you had to do is do a social media post that mentions Ivermectin, right? It's all you had to do. It's like, and all of a sudden you disappeared to the world, you know, kind of into an electronic version of the Soviet-era gulag. interesting times all right michael i appreciate you take thanks for coming on from m rc free speech

america okay thank you have a wonderful day 727 this is kmedy d hi this is lisa from kelly's animotive service in grants pass in medford recently dave and i bought a used vehicle from a small local dealer we noticed the car was inspected at a local independent shop we also noticed there was only four sentences describing the condition of the car at kelly's we use a multi-point inspection sheet take pictures of what we find and we charge less While there's no magic ball to tell the future, the more information you have, the better financial decisions you can make. Kelly's Automotive Service, where we service a vehicle, but take care of you. Harper, what should we highlight in our Gerson's home commercial?

Milk coming out of my nose. How's that? Remember when we were at the dining room table eating cookies? Yeah? And Lana got bad because I ate the last one. He was so ticked. So he came back with a bowl of grapes. Except when he took a bite, he found out they were olives.

And you laughed so hard milk came out of your nose. See? What? We don't sell tables. We sell memories. Garrisons.com. One of each K4, VIN 168-8-80 MSRP 24-165. Tell you write VIN 6-3-518 MSRP 435680, 3,500, 59-99, do its signing, 10K miles per year,

zero, security, to deposit, all incentives and discounts to dealer plus tax, title, license, 150, registration, processing fee. Trading in a vehicle will not eliminate your debt, negative equity applied to new loan balance ends 9-1-25. The summer of savings is here, with new Kia's. from 159 a month at Kia Medford. Now is the best time to get into a new Kia. Shop our huge selection and save. Lease a new 2025 Kia K4 LXS, 159 a month,

or a new 2025 Kia Tellurideast, 229 a month, both for 24 months. Plus, once we make a deal at Kia Medford, we'll pay off your trade no matter how much you owe. Need credits? Go to Kiamedford.com to get pre-approved in less than 30 seconds with no effect on your credit score. Then save on K-4s, 159 a month, or tell you rides 2.29 a month. Don't miss the summer of savings going on right now. At Kia Medford, click Kia Medford.com.

Two Dogs Fabricating is your exclusive North Star flatbed dealer and installer. But you're welcome to go all Goldilocks on us if it's not just right. Because two dogs can add stuff like custom boxes, racks, whatever you need. Or we can fabricate your own, one-of-a-kind custom two-dogs flatbed unique to your industry. We've built custom bed. for roofers, builders, masons, electricians, so we bet we can make you say, just right. Come see Two Dogs Fabricating on Brian Wayne, just off sage road.

Visit Two Dogsfab.com. Oregon Truck and Auto Authority is celebrating its 20-year anniversary as the Rogue Valley's car truck, Jeep, and SUV accessory Uffit headquarters, specializing in spray-on bedliners, vehicle undercoating, tono covers, and the largest selection of fiberglass, commercial, and metal canopies in the area. Running boards, Nerf bars, bumpers, winches, and LED lighting are also on the menu, along with hitches, decked drawer systems, and bedslides, too. Come see Oregon Truck and Auto Authority today and get your vehicle ready for your next adventure.

This is the Bill Myers Show on 1063 KMED. 7.30 afternoons, and I'm a little guest-heavy in the first half of the show or first two-thirds of it. I have a lot of open phone time next hour, especially try to get to that. But Professor Alan Sanders is going to join me because President Trump and Poo-Poot-Poot-Poot meeting later this week in Alaska trying to hammer out a ceasefire. And Professor Sanders is a very, very big, let me put it this way, a political analyst, former Time magazine senior reporter, Professor Emeritus of Political Science. He's an attorney, too, so he studies a lot of this. And we're going to talk about, you know, what's at stake here, what they think is going to happen, you know, good. hopefully they can find a way out

but I guess what I'm hearing at this point the talk is that there is a land swap going to be proposed I don't know if Putin's going to be open to that certainly Zelensky is not looking for that either they just want to get their territory back

or I'm sure Zolinski wants to do that he's not even going to be part of this talk from what I understand but I get the latest there from Professor Sanders here in just a moment Betty writes me this morning Bill, it was a good interview with your family member yesterday. Yeah, that was my Aunt Sherry from Elizabeth, and she lives

one mile as the crow flies away from that Clarton U.S. Steel Coke plant that blew up and killed two people the other day, and 10 really hurting. Just real tragedy for that community. It's a big, big, big deal there. And also

has a lot, it's very important. It's connected with our steel industry. It's the biggest coke plant in the entire country. This is a big deal, so it's not little. And Betty was asking, do people who live in that area also have side effects like black lungs, like what the miners used to get in the mines or do they have pretty good scrubbers? I was asking Sherry about that a little bit yesterday when I talked to her.

She says, yeah, it's much, much better than it once was. When we were kids, when Sherry, Sherry's three years older than me, right? So we were three years apart. We were riding our bikes around there. We would go, you know, visit my grandparents. and it was, the air was pretty chewy back in the 1960s, early 1970s. It started getting better in the mid-70s or so, and then when it ended up happening is that the steel industry in general down there

in southwestern Pennsylvania started getting killed. And the Clarton Coke Works was one of the last plant standing. Remember it's been there for 120 years still going. So I think the air is much, much. cleaner now. There's also much less of it. And yeah, the rules and regulations are much stronger, much more stringent. And

when Sherry talked about the way that was in which there was this quench, this layer of chemical residue on your cars, on your home, on your windows, it was true. And we all lived in that. Now, I didn't live on that in our home in Monroeville or Holiday Park, which is where we

were living at that time, or Logan's Ferry, out by New Kensington, earlier on. but it was pretty rough. The air could be pretty, pretty chewy. I remember you just go there, it'd just be the billows of sulfurous smoke coming out of those Coke ovens, and they would be burning off or flaring off the gas that was coming. And they, you know, as a kid, I was thrilled by it because it looked really pretty. You know, here's all these flames coming out of the smokestacks at night, you know, lighting things up.

It was a different time, and I have no doubt the Clean Air Act really did a lot. to clean things up. I don't know if we necessarily had black lung from that. There could have been other things, maybe COPD. I also remember everybody smoked like a chimney back in those days too, including my granddad. We all did, right?

Smoke like a chimney, eat bad food, and didn't exercise much, and then you lived around all those polluting sites. I can't tell you that's one of the reasons why my observation about people who live in the East Coast is that they tend to look older than we folks out on the

West Coast. And I can't help but think that part of it is an environmental toxin sort of issue that they're dealing with. And, you know, you take a 65-year-old in Western Pennsylvania and generally they look older than a 65-year-old out here on the West Coast. And I can't help but connect that long-term pollution exposure from the early industrialized aspect. You know, the 1940s, 50s, and 60s and 70s, and it started getting better in the 80s and 90s, really. And it's very clean now by comparison. But, yep, I had family while my great-grandfather there in the valley was a coal miner filled with black lug. He's a tough bird, though.

He died like two or three days before he was 100 years old. He was missing a few body parts here and there, but still, he was a tough bird. But, yeah, he lived a long time, but looked pretty old, right? We'll catch up on things here after the news with Professor Sanders and so much more. And then we'll have your calls on Wheels Up Wednesday. At Sisku Pump Service and Rotary Drilling Company, we provide well water services to your home and business from field to faucet. Our drilling team will construct your water well,

and our technicians at Cisco Pump Service can take it from there. With pump installation, water filtration systems, and installation of a holding tank if needed. SISQ Pump Service and Rotary Drilling Company are here for you with complete well water services from field to faucet. Serving the Rogue Valley for over 50 years, visit us at SiscuPump.com. This summer has been hot. Have you enjoyed time outside? Have you noticed your patio or pathways needing attention? TerraFerma Foundation Systems has the answer. If your patio is uneven, crack, settling, or separating, TerraFerma has the solution. Their poly-level foam technology can restore your sunken concrete in just a few hours, lifting in stable,

it. It's a fast, affordable way to enhance both the appearance and safety of your patios and pathways. Don't live with cracked concrete. TerraFerma can help. Visit go terraferma.com. CCB-173-547. News brought to you by Millette Construction, specializing in

foundation repair and replacement. Get on solid ground. Visit milletconstruction.com. From the KMED News Center, here's what's going on. A family of five is dead in Josephine County after what investigators believe is a murder-suicide. Deputies responded to a home in the Pickett Creek area following a report that neither Hannah nor Chad Bayhe showed up for work Monday.

They entered the house and discovered the couple shot dead along with their three children, ages 11, 9, and 7. Investigators believe that Chad killed his family before turning the gun on himself. A small DMV office in Eastern Oregon's closing August 27th, the office in Milton Freewater faces a significant staffing shortage due to the state's hiring freeze and a lack of Oregon Department. of transportation funding, according to the agency. Other small DMV offices could face a similar fate if people quit or retire unless lawmakers approve more money in the August 29th special session. We're under a red flag warning into the night. Temperatures are expected to hit about 100 degrees today with winds picking up this afternoon and gusts up to 20 miles an hour. Bill London, KMED. The Montana Rupi Marketing Department is always looking for new ideas, but they're not always good.

What's up? Well, I keep hearing other businesses with jingles, so I'm thinking we should have one. Huh, what did you have in mind? Here we go. Metal, composite, tile, and shake. There's no roof we cannot make. Fontana. Your daughter's a cheerleader, right?

Yeah. Why? No reason. Hey, how about when there's a hole in your roof, we make it go poof? Nah, new roofs are the focus. Let's see. Whether it's metal or shingles give Fontana a jingle. Get it?

A jingle with... Jingle in it. Oof. Maybe we should just hire some musicians and have a jam session. I'll sing lead and you can back up. Back up. I was lead tenor in my high school choir. Oh, yeah?

Well, I'm the king of karaoke. Everyone says my voice is stellar and my range is impressed. If you call Fontana Roofing right now for a quote, we promise to shove the homemade jingle idea. Visit fontanoruping service.com. By Coastal Media's 2025 Best of Southern Oregon Magazine, presented by Dusty's Transmissions is here. Visit Best of Southern

Oregon.com to view the new magazine online and pick up a copy at Albertsons in Menford, Comal Mexican Restaurant in Central Point, and Eagle Point, Sherm's Thunderbird Market and Food for Less. Congratulations to all the winners representing Southern Oregon's best suppliers of goods and services. If you'd like to be a pickup location for the 2025 Best of Southern Oregon magazine, please email RV contact at bicostal. It's the Bill Meyer Show on KMED, Southern Oregon's Place to Talk. Thank you for waking up period of 739 and joining me we're going to be talking a bit about uh about foreign policy because this is a big deal the talk that we're going to have with uh president trump and president

putin in alaska later this week and uh professor alan sanders is with me he's an attorney former time magazine senior reporter professor emeritus of political science at st peter's university in jersey city new jersey you see i'm all over there and now you are an attorney also Isn't that right, Professor? Welcome back to the show. Yes, I am. Good morning, Bill. Okay, good.

And if you are... I haven't practiced for a number of years now, but I haven't attorney. That's all right. I'm sure you've practiced enough, right? And by the way, if you wanted to look up, Professor Sanders, rather, I will put his information up, but certainly A-L-A-I-N, just make sure that it's, that you spell it that way. Otherwise, you'll probably get the wrong guy, right? That makes you unique.

Was that done to be unique, so you just weren't like every other, Alan? I was curious. No, it was because I was born in, France, and my parents emigrated to the United States when I was nine years old, and I have spent my entire adult life in the United States, but nonetheless, I kept the French spelling of my name. Got it. Now we get that.

So, President Trump, rather, Russian President Vladimir Putin meeting in Alaska, and this whole idea is to hammer out a ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine, and I find it interesting that they're going to hammer this out without Zelensky there. And what is your overall impression? I'm trying to imagine how this will play because I can't imagine two more different personalities of world leaders getting together. You have President Trump who is charming, kind of, you know, shoots from the hip, definitely, and mercurial, I guess would be a good way of putting it. And there's some things that are good about that. And then you have President Putin who kind of dower and serious as a heart attack, right?

And I'm just wondering, how do you see this as someone who has studied politics, an entire life here, part of your job? Personally, I mean, one can always be surprised, so, you know, making predictions is always a dangerous thing. Based on what we know up to now, I don't see much coming out of that. I think for Trump, this is mostly a performative exercise for Putin. It's a more substantive exercise laying out his conditions for what he wants to see happening in Ukraine. You know, this thing is now called a listening exercise. It was called a summit meeting now. The administration calls it a listening exercise, which indicates that this was really a very last-minute kind of setup without much planning

because listening exercises are what ambassadors do. They listen and they report back to the administration about what they've learned. So listening exercises what ambassadors do, not what top leaders of countries engage in. Usually, they meet once everything has been settled down with a below-level representatives, and they basically sign the agreement that they may listen, they may get some input. But usually summit meetings are prearranged, and everybody knows what's going to happen. Here we don't know. And an indication that we don't know, and a great concern is that as we speak right now, Bill,

The Europeans are having a virtual meeting called by Chancellor Mertz of Germany, and that virtually meeting has pretty much every European leader there, Zelensky, and also it's going to involve Trump. And these folks at this virtual meeting are going to try to impress Trump about what needs to be accomplished and what should not be accomplished at the meeting. So there's great concern among the Europeans as to what is actually going to happen there. All right. Now, you talked about this being performative, professor.

Is this because of what President Trump said, hey, one day I'm going to get this, you know, in one day I can get this war settled? And, well, it doesn't sound like the other side is willing to cooperate on that, right? Right, and I think it's partly based on that. It's also partly based on other summits that the president had. Remember, he had a summit meeting in his first term with the leader of North Korea. nothing ever happened at that meeting other than basically, you know, a photo op between him and the North Korean leader. So if you take a look at some of these other summit meetings that were hyped up as something that's going to happen, the record is pretty thin.

So, again, one never knows what can happen, as you pointed out, the president is Mercurial, so we don't know what his actual aims are at the meeting. And that's part of the problem. We don't know what the American position is, and we also know that President Zelensky, the one whose country is at the center of this, is not going to be present at the meeting. So it's hard to understand what might actually be accomplished. But, you know, surprises happen in politics, and so we'll see. Well, I'm looking forward to being surprised.

Maybe we can, you know, get some moving progress. Now, is this an example of where President Trump doesn't necessarily trust his diplomats, per se and he's kind of a hands-on guy I've noticed that is surprisingly hands-on in many things is this is kind of an example of that where okay this is what the the ambassadors are saying in fact I don't you know who is our ambassador to Russia maybe you could you could tell us that and well maybe this is where I just going to get his hands dirty on it I don't know well I mean you know when he was running for his first term at the convention I believe the Republican convention

says, I alone can solve all these problems. I mean, he's an ego-driven kind of guy. He believes very much in his capacities to do things, and when he sets in mind that he alone can do this, there's nobody who's going to stop him. So this is part of his personality, and people can judge for themselves how successful the I-alone kind of motivation and practices that he's engaged in how successful they've actually been. Well, he's been doing a lot of this when it comes to, you know, unilateral imposition of tariffs, and I know that there's talk about, you know, is this, is this legal or not? I guess this is me talking to your lawyer's side, your attorney side, you know, of that situation.

Right. Well, the first level of court that reviewed his tariffs said that they were not illegal. They were not permitted under the statute, which she is acting under. So the first level of court said, no, you can't do this, Mr. President. that the president has appealed, it's unappealed to the intermediate court, and ultimately, if the results are not pleasing to the president, he presumably will appeal to the Supreme Court. But the first level of review said no. The order is stayed, you know, so that's why the president continues to issue his tariff pronunciations every day, every week. But at least the initial

determination was he doesn't have the authority. Okay. Let us, you know, something that I was reading about in talking to a friend who is a pretty knowledgeable about such economic matters. And I know this has nothing to do with Russia and Putin right now, but I'm kind of being sidetracked a little bit, if you don't mind. But thanks for indulging me. Is there a possibility that Trump ends up getting his tariff authority through this method? And this method is you get us tied, you get the economy tied into so many of these deals

right now, even if they are not technically constitutional. because all tariffs are technically supposed to come from Congress. You know, we know about this. He's using a different law for this, for this tariffing authority. But you get to the point where you have so much of the United States economy pre-wound into all of these agreements, and it ends up going up to the Supreme Court, let's say, and it finally goes to the Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court reads the newspapers or the headlines, you know, they know what's going on, and they don't want to be the one to upset the Apple Cart.

What do you think about that as a point of law? Because I know everybody says, well, they're just going to look at the Constitution. I think they're human. What do you think? Yeah, well, I think certainly the courts say they are independent, for the most part they are, but they do read the newspaper, as you point out, and they're part of the political environment. So they can adapt doctrines or laws or statutes of their precedents to current conditions. On the other hand, let's not forget that the courts do believe in.

in the rule of law and in the Constitution. And if they believe that something is wrong, even if it has been embedded a long time, such as, for example, segregation in the United States. Of course, come to the conclusion, even though segregation was embedded in all kinds of factors of our society, when they come to the conclusion that that's wrong or unconstitutional, if they stand on principle, they will strike it down,

even though it will affect huge sectors of society. uh... yet on the one hand they pay attention to politics to the current situation they're sensitive to that though they won't really admit it on the other hand if they're serious about the constitution and the rule of law uh... they won't have to take so it depends on who the actual judges are and that's why it's so important to confirm people who are actual

uh... masters of the law masters of fact and reasonably objective about what's going on professor alan sanders with me and uh... we're talking about uh... president trump uh... both with uh... uh... Vladimir Putin this week and also the tariff issue here. Now, well, I guess you know when you think about it, Roe v. Wade. There's an example, classic example, right? How many decades?

How many decades that was the law of the land and then turned upside down on its head with the Supreme Court? Right, and you can look at it from both sides. I mean, before Row versus Wade was announced, there were lots of laws banning abortion around the country. And then, of course, Roe v. Wade struck those laws down. And then again, you get 50 years later, the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade itself. So courts, depending on their leaning, depending on their philosophy, depending on their partisanship,

although judges don't like to say that, but yes, they come from the real world of partisanship, and they're appointed by partisan presidents and confirmed bipartisan Senate, will react. And sometimes they will do things that really do upset the apple card laws and precedents. that have been around for a long time. So that's why, as I say, it's very important that we pick the very best judges, people who understand law, who understand facts, who understand the history of our country, and who will approach these matters in regionally fair and objective ways. Yeah, tall or sometimes.

Professor Alan Sanders with me this morning. Hey, Professor, back on the conversation that President Trump's going to have with Russian President Vladimir Putin later this week in Alaska. Is there symbolism about meeting in Alaska in your view? I have not paid as much attention to this story as perhaps I should have. And I was wondering if you could enlighten me. Was there a reason this was done in Alaska? Is it because of the history of Alaska between the two countries

or some other symbolism involved? I'm not sure it's because of the symbolism because I say this was sort of a last-minute arrangement, sort of a haphazard way. We know that President Trump doesn't like to travel very much. And so this is a shorter trip for him than it is for Vladimir Putin. I think they just picked Alaska because it seemed to be convenient. Nevertheless, picking Alaska is symbolic because, of course, Alaska used to belong to the Soviet – or not the Soviet Union, but to Russia.

And they sold it in the Civil War era to the United States. So for Russia, it's kind of interesting that Putin is willing to come to the territory that Russia basically gave up. For the United States, I think it's just a matter of convenience. What's symbolic and problematic for many people is that Putin has been a pariah on the international stage since he invaded Ukraine. And, of course, he's got a criminal warrant from the international criminal court. And so for him to meet with the leader of the United States, the strongest power on Earth, is something that he very much wanted to show that he's back on the world stage. And many critics of the president, including many European allies,

believe that that's wrong to put him back standard stage. They wanted him to be sort of offstage and have him understand that what he's done in Ukraine is wrong. But now, of course, President has given him full recognition. And many people, critics of Trump, and, of course, many Europeans are upset. They believe that this, the fact of the fact of, the meeting is that it is actually a win for Putin at the moment. But again, as you've pointed out, and I've pointed out, we really need to see what emerges when these two people

meet. Couldn't you say that didn't we have a role to play with our interference in Ukraine for a number of years ago with essentially fomenting the coup against their duly elected president and other people are saying, oh, it was for a good reason, et cetera, et cetera. How do you see this from the 50,000 foot level? Well, I don't think we fomented a coup. It's a very clear that Ukraine used to be led by a pro-Russian leader who was very corrupt, by the way. He's now in exile, I believe, in Russia himself. The Ukrainian people did not like that dictatorship or that leadership, I should say, not dictatorship. They believe that it was heading in the wrong direction. Now, of course... The way I was reading this, the way I've read other authors who

have talked about this that we essentially installed our puppet there. We did not install our puppet. What's really in – look, you have to look at it from a broader standpoint. Okay. The politics of a country start in the country itself, okay? And every state, whether it's Russia, whether it's the United States, whether it's France, whether it's Great Britain, every power, when they see the politics of a particular country, will side with one side or another, okay? And they'll help that side either covertly or they'll help it, you know, by political. statements and so forth. So, of course, we want Ukraine to be part of the West. But, of course,

Putin wants to reconquer Ukraine. He believes that the Soviet Empire should be reinstated. Yeah, but he also made it also clear that he also made it clear, Professor, did he not, that we were not to, in fact, we had agreed not to move NATO onto his border, and yet that's exactly what we were doing. We did not move NATO into the border. NATO hasn't done a damn thing, except provide military aid. NATO has not moved in anything. Individual NATO countries, France, Great Britain, Germany, the United States have provided aid. But NATO has not moved into Ukraine, and NATO hasn't taken a position on Ukraine. NATO never moved in on Ukraine.

I mean, Putin says that, but it's the individual countries. And by the way, if you travel in Eastern Europe, as I just did recently, they are absolutely terrified of Russia. They know that Russia and Hitler, I should say at the time it was a Soviet Union, Stalin and Hitler agreed to split up Poland between them at the beginning of World War II. And they also know that at the end of World War II, Russia invaded the Eastern European countries and made it part of its sphere of influence. And if you travel through Eastern Europe, you will find that virtually all of them, the leadership and the majority of the citizens, absolutely are terrified of Russia

because they don't believe that Russia wants independent eastern European states. It's not just Ukraine. Oh, I'm not thinking that Russia's all for a Jeffersonian democracy, okay? I'm not making any bones about this. But where did all the conversation come about that? One of the big bones of contention was that Ukraine wanted to join NATO, and NATO was seriously considering doing it. And so, you know, it's like that was a red line that Putin always said.

And I'm no Putin lover here, Professor. So it's a solution to that. If you don't like the foreign policy of a country, is a solution to that to invade it and claim chunks of it for yourself? Is that the proper solution? I'm not saying it is. I just know that if Mexico were to do something similar, we'd probably have something to say about it, wouldn't we? Having something to say about it is one thing, invading a country and grabbing parts of its territory and killing thousands of people is another consideration. Yes, every country has its interest, and every country believes that another country should behave this way or that way. But that doesn't justify invading a country, grabbing pieces of its territory, and saying it's mine. All right. Now, the talk that we're hearing about this upcoming, Will, listening session, however you want to term it, professor, is that the talk is that there's going to be a land swap proposed by the president.

Is that what you've been noticing to or hearing or seeing? Well, that's what the president said. but from what I understand, the land swap usually means one country gives up a piece of land of its own, and another country gives up another piece of land of its own. That's not the kind of swap that I think is being contemplated. The swap is, you know, Russia will get some of the territory that it's occupying, and it won't get some of the other territory that it is also occupying or wants to occupy. That's not exactly a land swap. That's a land giveaway.

Who do you think is in the stronger position at this point in time? Is it Ukraine or is it Russia at this moment in time? If you were to evaluate this then as a matter of military and or diplomacy? I think on the military front, Russia is very much in the strongest position right now, and that's why it wants to meet because it wants to take advantage of its military position and strength. diplomatically, I still think it's Russia because, as you can see, Trump has been sort of making statements that are broadly supportive of Russia or encouraging of Russia, and the Europeans are concerned. They're having a meeting right now today between themselves, Zelensky, and Trump

to try and encourage Trump to take a hard line and to make sure that the interest of Ukraine, but also the interest of the Europeans, as I've pointed out, are protected, because the Europeans are very concerned, that if Putin gets most of his way in Ukraine, they very much believe that they will be next, and that he will impose demands on the Europeans. All right, and you also have to consider what role is Russia being a nuclear power playing in something like this, which is why President Trump would likely be a bit more, have a bit more deference to Russia's point of view. Well, you always have to be respectful of nuclear arms, and I think the United States is quite understanding of what Russia possesses, and I think Russia is also quite understanding of what the United States possesses.

So I think you've got two nuclear powers talking about this, and I think he's side understands the military capacities of the other. All right. Now, the bottom line here, your takeaway, and it's difficult to predict at this point. You're not expecting a full-blown agreement at this point in time really coming out of this. Could it really be more of a fact-finding deal from the Trump administration, you know, play acting? Well, it could be. It could be.

I mean, they're calling it, as I say, a listening exercise. they're not calling it a summit to reach an agreement. Trump has said that after the meeting with Mr. Putin, he will immediately call Mr. Zelensky and the other European leaders to tell them what happened. So it doesn't look like we're going to get a signed agreement or a framework of an agreement, but rather simply, as Trump has said in his own words,

a feel-out kind of session. All right. But as I say, that's usually what ambassadors are supposed to do. So it's not clear what Trump actually expects to come out of this in this listening exercise. And that's why there's much doubt about its success. But, you know, again, to repeat, you just never know what happens when two leaders of two nuclear countries both have an interest in the fate of Europe, what they will agree to put forth. Well, we could be next week you and I talking about an amazing rabbit pulled out of a hat.

I hope this meeting. You never know. Okay. Professor, I appreciate the talk, and can anybody read what you, do you write much on this, or do you have any publishing? No, I don't write much these days because I'm retired, but you can certainly reach me through St. Peter's University, and they'll tell you how to contact me. Professor Sanders, I appreciate your input this morning. Thank you very much for the talk. Be well. Thank you.