Bill Meyer Show Podcast - Sponsored by Clouser Drilling www.ClouserDrilling.com - 10-20-25_MONDAY_6AM

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

Morning news and opnion start the day, Dr. Murray Sabrin, PhD, economist and public intellectual has a lot to say about our economy...Why is gold at 4000+? Spearheading MAFI - Make AMericans Financially Independent again and we kick that around.

The Bill Meyer Show podcast is sponsored by Klausur drilling. They've been leading the way in Southern Oregon well drilling for over 50 years. Find out more about them at Klausordrilling.com. Here's Bill Meyer. It's great to have you here on Monday, the 20th of October. Let's see, one, two, yeah, two days after No Kings 2. What was your impression overall of the turnout? It's pretty much what I saw last time.

I ended up going out and just to kind of check it out in Medford. That was the one over at the corner of McAndrews and Biddle. And there were quite a few people there. I'm not sure who was doing the counting for the Rogue Valley Times because they all, they talked about multiple thousands of people. And I would say, at least according to my crowd counting, I, you know, when I hear someone say thousands of people implying multiple thousands of people showed up there at McAndrews and Biddle, I think that's a little bit of an example.

exaggeration only because when I think of thousands, think about if you have ever been to a sold-out Brit show. If you've been to a sold-out Brit show, you have an idea of what about 3,000 people looked like. And that is not what looked like was over on the corner of McAndrews and Biddle or lining that particular area. Now, I could be wrong. And maybe I ended up showing up before the main crowd was there. But even the picture in the paper, they said thousands. and I saw, what I saw were several hundred. And still, you know, a lot of people showing up, but when they say thousands, and I know

that seems to be the general tens of thousands of people are saying seven million people showed up. Okay, seven million people showed up, and guess what? We still don't have a king. We didn't have a king prior to no kings too, and we don't have a king now. I mean, can we all agree on that much? but it was pretty uneventful. I didn't hear about anybody getting into any fights if there were people protesting on the other side of the political aisle.

I didn't think it was such a good idea to get engaged with them anyway. But the one thing I did notice, though, is that when I was going through the intersection and McAndrews and Biddle, there was someone from the crowd who flipped me off. So I don't know if it was because they recognized me or else I wasn't honking or giving them a thumbs up like other people were. Kings now. I was driving the van. The van is kind of a recognizable vehicle after a number

of years of talking about it, you know, back at the, when Lithuan body and paint did that, but what did you see? Did you see tens of thousands or several thousand or not? I thought it was a little bit exaggerated, but I would expect it to be exaggerated. Oh, well, thousands.

To me, it looked like several hundred. And it was a good crowd. It wasn't a bad crowd. Don't give me wrong. But I just didn't think thousands. a big difference between several hundred, I would have estimated it at about 700 to 800 total if I was, that's how I would have estimated it anyway. Let me know what you think about that.

7705-633-770 K-M-E-D. Still don't have a king, no kings, and still, you know, Trump is still in there doing what, of course, you know, to be fair, I have to tell you, the United States presidency was designed by the founders to be a somewhat of a kingly type figure. But we'll set that aside right now, especially when you talk about the executive orders and such. Hi, good morning. It's Monday. This is Bill. Who's this? Welcome. Hey, good morning. Welcome to you. Bill. It's DeFlorable Patrick,

and I'm on the run right now, so I'll make one quick point. Sure. What happened? And did you go out to or see any of the No Kings 2 action over the weekend? I couldn't be bothered but just in response to what you just said oh there are multiple thousands I figured out a long time ago that these reporters

and reporters are in a class by themselves they're not really selling information what they're selling is sensationalism hmm because someone sees a headline says thousands turn out

Ooh, this must have been a big deal, and so you have to click on the story, right? Yeah, they've got, they've got us all excited. I write them off. Yeah, now I was looking at it with a, with just what I thought was a reasonable, you know, it was a good crowd. Don't get me wrong, but I didn't see thousands as in more than a thousand. I thought maybe several hundred. You know, you've been to enough football games, you've been to enough things at the expo. You start figuring out what a thousand looks like, and I saw a lot of people there on

Saturday, but I didn't see several thousand. That's all. That's all I was getting in. Do you agree with me, though? The reporter sells sensationalism. Yeah, I guess so. Well, you know, you have to make something seem more exciting, you know, that it may have really been. And there's a lot of, there was a lot of gray, a lot of gray hair. Now, of course, I'm a gray hair guy, so I'm not, you know, making fun of it, you know, per se. But it tended to end, air a little bit on the side of the older crowd and you did see some young liberal guys who I think were looking

to get lucky with maybe some of the more sporty young liberal women that may have been in the crowd I think that was about it but as far as most of the men most of the men were on the older side shall we say okay yeah they had the ulterior

motive I think is what you're saying there so you count on liberals to have some wacky approach So anyway, thank you, and I'll carry on bravely here and appreciate the show. All right, appreciate you being here, Patrick. Patrick is a member of the early morning risers and commenter club. 7705-633. Just talking about what happened on No Kings.

How was it for you? I saw some pictures, a few pictures. It was a, I guess there were both sides of it arguing in Josephine County, which makes sense because they were across the street from one another, Republicans on the side of the street where their clubhouse is and then right across the street where the courthouse is and you had all the No Kings 2 type people so I don't know how loud or noisy that got or not

but anyway hi good morning who's this welcome hey good morning this Bill yeah who's this hey this Wayne Central Point hey Wayne were you out of any of the No Kings 2 you see any of it going on I was I drive for lift I went up and down McAndrew several times and it was a joke but what I'm calling about Bill is for you to be the true

romantic that you are for Linda and don't let a little snow ruin you from enjoying your beautiful trip to unit number three in Hidden Springs oh oh you're talking about the the the trip out to the hot springs in a couple of weeks you know we ended up canceling that already and we rescheduled we went to the coast instead is what we we, is what we're going to do. That's what we're going to do. Okay. Yeah.

Now, we weren't going to cancel our romantic trip. We were just going to shift it around. The thing is that this time of year, when you get to close to November, the weather gets sportier out in that section with the five, six thousand. In fact, it's a 6,000 foot mountain pass you're going through to get to it. And given that, you know, I have a mother that we might have to go back to if there was a medical problem or something over the weekend. and we're about four and a half hours away.

We thought, okay, we'll wait for better weather on that kind of thing when we can guarantee better weather. And so we thought, you know, it was easier or better to go to the coast and just an easier thing to do less strain for this particular trip. That's all. Okay? I understand the precaution, you know, abundance of precaution is good, but there's nothing more romantic than sitting in a hot tucousy with six inches of snow on the edge. Oh, I agree with you. I agree with you. And that's why I would like to move Cedarville to, I don't know, Canyonville is what I'd like to do. If I could move Cedarville, California to Canyonville, it'd be a perfect world, okay? That would be. Sign me up. All right. Hey, I appreciate the call. And by the way, if you live in Canyonville, nothing wrong with Canyonville. I'm just saying that I love that. Those hot springs over there at Surprise Valley are just really something, really something to enjoy. did you go out to know kings what did you see what was your overall impression we were talking a bit

about that this morning and you know i thought it was a good crowd but it was not thousands making it sound like thousands upon thousands i thought maybe seven 800 is what i saw and they were relatively well-behaved except the one that flipped me off probably because he recognized me maybe maybe he's one of a trolls on the facebook page i don't know i just got a way back you know hey how you doing you know you don't want to be that guy uh hi good morning This is Bill. Who's this? Hi. Morning, Tom. Hey, Tom. What's going on?

Did you see any of the No King's 2 excitement over the weekend? No, I just thought of best to, you know, let them stew in their own soup. Yeah. But, you know, in a way, I have to agree with them in the sense that I think we do have an out-of-control government. We have a phone of the Fiat system and the IRS at supporting war all over the planet. and it's doing a lot of things that I certainly don't agree with. And you know something, Tom, for that very reason, that very active, very muscular worldwide government,

that's the reason why there is so much fighting over who is president. Nobody used to really care much about what the presidency was because the government did so much, a little back in those days. They didn't care. Exactly. But where I have part company with them is they were, their protests, and they want more government. I want a lot less government. I do not like an all-powerful government. And in a way, we kind of overlap for different reasons about the no kings. But there's

certainly a lot to protest with a, I do believe our government is out of control, or has too much control. It's another way of saying the same thing. But so I'm in agreement with that. But, wow, the solution is radically different. It kind of, and the whole protest seems to be coming around the fact that why do we have borders? Why do we even have a country? And the idea is, you know, you draw a line in the sand and say, on this side of the line, we're going to have a government that beholding to the people, not the other way around. We're going to have free speech, freedom of religion, and so forth.

On the other side of the line, if you want to have a narco-terrorist mafia government, well, okay, but we'll let you be, but we're not going to let you come in and take away what we have. Unfortunately, though, our government has long deserted the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and we're in a kind of having a country that's... Yeah, it's at an awkward stage, Tom. Very awkward stage, wouldn't you say? I mean, we sit around and we talk about, and this is... no matter who is the president.

We sit around there and we're singing, God bless the USA and talking about it as if it is the constitutional republic of old. And it is certainly a form of government, but a constitutionally limited republic, though, is not the way it behaves these days. And it hasn't behaved any time, frankly, that you or I have been alive, really. I don't think.

Well, again, my constant thing that I say, a government with unlimited money is an unlimited government. And that's really the source of our government overreach. And if you could actually, for those that don't understand what we're talking about, if you bought a copy of G. Edward Griffins, is that, did he get his name right? Yes. Yeah, the creature from Jekyll Island that would give you a good primer on why it is, when Tom talks about the Federal Reserve so much, the Central Bank,

why it is that a government that is able to conjure currency at its whim and not have to back it with anything other than its so-called full faith and credit ends up turning into a very dangerous animal. And that's why you end up getting to the point where everybody is battling for who's going to be in Congress and Senate and who's going to be the president because everybody has to pass out all that grease. And look at what they're all complaining right now. What are the No King's people? No King's two people complaining about right now? The Greece going away for the illegal aliens in the health care, right? That same sort of thing.

Exactly. What the government shouldn't be involved with in the first place. Yeah, the Grant Stream funding Greece coming down and slithering into the cloaca of the federal government and plopping into the state's mouths. You know, it's just the way it goes. I certainly hope that some of the pro-No-Kings people will call in. I wish we had more of a chance to have a dialogue because, you know, just like a say there's a bit of an overlap, but I think so we have a very confused population, both on the left and right and so forth, and this idea of making government are king, well,

I'm in agreement with that. Yeah, well, one of those people I was going to talk to just for a few minutes because he wanted to respond to some claims made about him, and that is Matt Spurlock, who is the chairman of Rogan Divisible, and he is going to be on the show just for a few minutes at 7-10. I'm going to squeeze him in between some other things, but he said he wanted to. wanted to respond. And I'm sure it has to do with the grant stream funding, which has gone from the Open Society Foundation of George Soros, to many of Indivisible, the main partners group kind of funding. And, you know, the left is very good at organizing funding and then

washing it with nice sounding names like, you know, citizens for a better future kind of names, you know, that kind of thing. And then all sorts of stuff gets paid for. Yeah, the Rogue Valley Times, their lead article has an article about the No Kings, are rated to bottom there. They have the link for all of the readers who want to look at Indivisible. So there's a link right there. You can go to that Rogue Valley Times and lead article. Go to the bottom there and read all about what Indivisible is about. And so, And you're right. They have all these wonderful sounding things. But it's basically, it's our tyranny as compared to your tyranny. And I don't like tyranny.

Yeah, that's all we're arguing about. Well, it's like I was joking the other week. All we're arguing about every time we have a presidential election is who is holding the baseball bat with which to hit the other side over the head. You know, that's all we do. You know, rabbit season, duck season. We're still sitting out there. And believe me, I understand why President Trump wants to hit some people on the head with a baseball bat because they were hitting him with the same baseball bat when they were in power, right? It's what they were doing. It's amazing.

You think about it. Yeah, and you know, I was thinking about Trump, you know, blowing up all these narcos on the supposedly open seas, but I can understand the motivation there. You have a boat full of fentanyl that has the potential and likelihood killing hundreds of America. start looking at that as a clear stage of danger, but I would feel better if you were blowing them up within our territorial waters, just saying. That's all I would say, if that's the case. Certainly saying, but I can see the motivation there because what he's doing is he's scaring the hell out of other potential boatloads of fentanyl coming to the United States.

I mean, we're losing about 100,000 Americans a year. Yeah. Think about that. And so that is the driving force behind that. Yeah, at this point, cost-benefit, making the cost-benefit look pretty tough for a drug dealer out of Venezuela or Colombia, as the case might be. There we go. Tom, I always appreciate the call. Thanks for it.

Early morning, Rises Club. He's like the charter member, too, I think. Hi, good morning. KMEDE, this is Bill. Who's this? Hi, Bill. This is Vicki from the Applegate. Hey, you go out to No Kings, too, seeing any of that over the weekend?

I don't. I live in the country, and what I see are nothing. I don't see that. I thought that maybe there'd be a crowd over at a country store or something like that. I didn't know. You know, maybe there was. I don't know. I stayed home all weekend, so I didn't see any of that.

And I don't have TV, so I don't listen to that constantly. I'm not like... You probably get a lot done, okay? So anyway, what's going on? What's on your mind today? So, Bill, I just wanted to comment on the No Kings. You know, the Democrats, Biden and Obama had America for eight years, and that's when we really started to see our values changed, our, you know, the relationships with foreign countries. They were more, like, in the back room, secretive.

We didn't know what was going on, what our president and representatives were giving other countries, what kind of. deals they were making. So if you think about it, the No Kings really started back with Obama and Biden. Then we got Trump in for four years. He tried to, you know, make the government go down, get rid of a bunch of spending that was unnecessary. Then COVID hit. So you had people staying at home being mesmerized by their television on the far left. Then Biden got into office, and I didn't see protests of No Kings when, I mean, he was doing policies coming out of Afghanistan the way he did, and nobody, there was no really uprising about that.

Well, here's the reason. The bottom line is that every time I hear the nonsense known as No Kings or No Kings, too, as it was over the weekend, all it means is no Republicans, Vicki. That's all it means. That's really all it means. It's just marketing for the group there. So that's my story, okay? Hey, I've got to go, but I appreciate your call, as always,

and I appreciate you waking up and being part of the early morning commenters club. This is the Bill Myers Show. We're going to shift over to economy for a little bit here. How's it looking? Dr. Murray Sabrin will join me, and we'll kick that around in about five. When it comes to your roof, getting started shouldn't be complicated. And get signed up. The Bill Myers Show is on.

News Talk 1063, KMED. I'm so glad you're here. It is 637 on Monday morning, October 20th. Beautiful day here in the Road Valley. Beautiful day in Naples, Florida, too. From what I understand, at least according to Dr. Murray Sabrin, PhD, he's the author of From Immigrant to Public Intellectual and American Story. And an interesting background, Emeritus Professor of Finance at Ramapo College of New Jersey,

Dr. Sabrin considered a public intellectual rights on the economy. scholarly and popular publications. He also wrote Tax Free 2000, Why the Federal Reserve Sucks. Hey, I'll buy it just for that title here, Doctor. Welcome to the show. We were just talking about it. One of my listeners, Tom, is always talking about the Federal Reserve here now. He says that that really ended up changing.

That was really when the Republic ended up changing into, I don't know, what kind of a strange democracy, I guess, that we have right now. Do you agree? Welcome to the show. It's good to have you on. Well, thanks, Bill. No, actually, 1913 was the counter-revolution to 1776 because it centralized enormous power in the federal government with the 16th Amendment, which was certified in February of 1913. And then in December 1913, Woodrow Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act. So it really transferred power from the private sector from local and state governments to the federal government. And this was another example of bait and switch by the federal government because the initial, income tax, only 2% of the American people paid the tax, and they said rates are going to

stay low. The top rate was 7%. And a few years later, when we were in World War II, rates went up to 77% and virtually everyone paid the income tax. And the Federal Reserve has been the engine of inflation. It causes the boom-bust cycle. And that creates the most massive redistribution of income from low and middle-income families to the upper-income families, especially the folks on Wall Street who make tons of money because of the quantitative easing. that the Fed does, which pumps money into the system and raise the stock values and other asset value that mostly assets are owned by the top 20% of the American people. So we have a real problem in the country.

It's called statism, collectivism, democratic socialism, and Bernie Sanders must be smiling because everything that he wants has been happening in the United States. And unfortunately, the Republicans haven't pushed back enough since they've been in power because the federal government is spending more money than it's taking in. It's created a $37 trillion debt with a trillion dollars in interest expense. And we have a serious problem. That's why having taught financial history for so many years, the storm clouds are on the horizon.

People see them. People on Wall Street who understand these issues have been announcing that we are in a heap of trouble. And I believe we're going to have another financial crisis. comparable or worse than 1929 because all the data suggests that, and it's not my opinion, it's what happened leading up to the crash of 1929, and the same thing is happening today, but it's a lot worse because the federal government is more heavily evolved than the economy than it was back then. Yeah, and I would also dare say that in the markets, much more leverage, right? You have just a little bit of money, and you're purchasing the ability to move a lot of financial instruments around.

And then when you're highly leveraged, which is the way the stock market is right now, you're able to have those incredible meteoric sores and, hey, that's great. You're loving that. But any kind of wobble in that, then you get wiped out pretty quickly, too, on the other end, right? Well, there's no question about it. I mean, what made the financial crisis of 1929 so devastating is that margin rates? In other words, how much money you had to put up with a down payment on buying stocks was as low as 10%. And so many people bought stocks on margin.

And when the stock market crashed in October of 29, people got wiped out, and the market went down nearly 90% from 1929 to 1932. And so that was a devastating crunch. But if you got into the stock market in 1932, if you had any money, you made a ton of money because even during the Great Depression, the Fed was pumping money into the economy, and the stock market had a huge rise from 1932 to 1937. And we've had the dot-time bubble bursting. We have the housing bubble bursting.

Now we have what people have called the everything bubble in the stock market. But it's been basically driven by the high-tech companies, the NVIDIAs, the Amazon, the Apple, the Microsoft, the Googles. Those stocks have really lost and some other stock, Palantir. By the way, doctor, I wanted to ask you about the AI stocks and such. You know, there's nothing wrong with, you know, there's always like the newest, hottest thing. I remember in the late 1900, in 1990s, rather, ended up being if you had dot com on it, you just threw money at it, right? And then that ended up popping and going away. Is the AI stock bubble worse or different than that was then?

Because the difference I thought is that the government wasn't all in on this. While at the same time, the government is very much has all of its fingers pushing on the AI stocks. the AI chops, the stocks, rather, because they're looking at this as, this is the future, we have to dominate this. All the nations of the world are saying pretty much the same thing. We're going to throw everything we have at artificial intelligence. And I always get a little, just a little suspicious at it when everybody's, you know, going after the same thing at the same time, ostensibly for the same reason.

How do you see it as an economist? Well, this is a $64,000 question. I mean, people back in 1920s thought that the stock one was. going to go just through the roof because of the new technology called what radio and the stocks that were affiliated with the radio industry yeah yeah radio was the internet of the day it was incredible how much money people made on those stocks you bet sure and we're seeing the same thing now and as warren buffett's in blue he said you only know who's naked when the tide goes out so uh we'll see exactly which stocks will survive and which stocks will crash uh during

the next downturn because there are some stocks that are that are priced that's valuation, which means that they're so overvalued. It's just a matter of time before they come back to Earth, and no one knows exactly when that break will occur, but the difference this time is the Federal Reserve will be much more active in trying to prop up the stock market, and that means that we can have an Argentina type of situation where so much money is injected by the Federal Reserve that prices will go through the roof, and you'll have what's called an inflationary depression, which is what happened in Germany, by the way, after World War I, the super hyperinflation in 1920,

23 that caused the collapse of the German economy. So things are really bad long-term. Short-term, as they say, ride the wave as much as you can. And the key for individual investors is when to get out before the bubble burst. And that's the tricky part of being an investor is that you want to participate in the growth of the economy because there are a lot of great things happening in the economy. But you also don't want your portfolio to get wiped out if you're heavily invested. in IA stocks.

And that's why it's important to have a portfolio where no matter what happens, you will come out at the other end in not the bad shape that some people will face because they invests so much in AI. So again, right now we're seeing money flowing into the precious metals because people realize around the world that the dollar is suspect. Yeah, I was going to ask you, what does it mean when you, are there, there could be multiple reasons why we're looking at gold at 4308 this morning, and silver at 5227, although it got thwapped pretty hard on Friday. It seemed like it came right back and is now continuing

to sort of ever new highs. What's driving that, do you believe? I believe what's happening is that people around the world, especially the central banks, whose countries have gone through hyperinflation. Russia had hyperinflation, China had hyperinflation, Germany had hyperinflation, Tina, the central bankers realize that they can't rely on the dollar because of what's happened geopolitically with the freezing of Russian assets by the U.S. government since the Ukraine war started. So decision makers around the world are saying, we better diversify our assets. It means central banks have tons of money that they need to allocate towards different assets. And they're saying, well, we better get into some more precious metals. And they've been heavy buyers of gold and probably silver as well.

and silver, as you know, has major industrial uses, in addition to its monetary use. So this has been the best way I can give you an analogy is when we see a volcano, it didn't happen overnight. It takes years, decades, sometimes centuries for volcanoes to explode. We're seeing this now with the international monetary system. This has been in the work since 1944 when the post-World War II monetary system was created. Nixon ended that in 1971. Now we're seeing the result of that system where there's so many dollars floating around the world that they have to go somewhere and now they're going into gold and silver.

And I think this will continue. I recently wrote a piece on Substack pointing out, given the cycles in gold, I project that gold could go to at least 8,000, possibly 12,000, and even 16,000 on ounce based upon previous cycles of gold going from a bottom to a top virtually eight times. So are you looking at what's happening with gold and silver as part of the monetary? cycle. And when I say monetary cycle, that it seems like what, every 70, 80 years or something like that, you end up pretty much destroying your monetary system? Is that kind of what we're talking about here, Dr. Sabin? Well, we're in this situation since Nixon severed the last thing between

dollar and gold on August 15th, 1971, we're an unprecedented territory. We've never seen this in U.S. financial history or world financial history, where all the monies of the world are fiat, namely they're not backed by a precious metal, which is precious metals are the real money. Paper money are the money substitutes, and when you have money substitutes, and you can print them as will, either physically or digitally, which the Federal Reserve does, then we don't know how high gold can go. I mean, theoretically, it can go to the moon. By that, I mean, I've seen projections of gold going to $50,000, $70,000.

that is all together feasible because uh uh there's so many dollars around the world and the central banks in order to prop up the economies when their crisis occurs will print up much much more money that's exactly what happened in 2008 2008 when the housing bubble burst the federal reserve and other central banks printed so much money and that gave the stock market this huge boom since 2008 the stock markets up i think uh let's see around uh let's see uh almost 10 times yeah the The S&P was at 666, an ominous number at the bottom, and now it's a 6,600. So the stock marks up 10 times since 2009 when the bottom occurred, and gold, the bottom, that is $1,000 an ounce.

So if we apply eight times that number, then we get to $8,000, and then this recent rally took place at 2000. So if we applied eight times to $2,000, then we're talking about a possible $16,000 price of gold in the occurrence in this. cycle. So again, I'm very concerned having taught finance for 35 years in financial history for over a decade that we are in the worst of the worst in terms of monetary policy, fiscal policy, geopolitical destabilization. And it's just a matter of time before the chickens come home to roost. And that will occur when people realize around the world that the dollar can't be

trusted and that they feel that the stock market is overvalued and they start exiting the stock market. But Dr. Sabrin, aren't we really looking at in a situation where of all the problems that you have noted, of all the nation's economies, all the world's economies, that we are still, as they have termed it, the cleanest of the dirty shirts. Is that true still? And if not, why? And may this also explain some where these capital flows are going into different assets rather than traditional stocks. yeah i guess the best analogy is if you're the healthiest person in nursing company still pretty unhealthy and so that's what that's the way i see the dollar is that the u.s economy has a lot of

things going for it and it's not because of the government it's because of the men and women entrepreneurs around the country who create new products every single day and some of them get commercialized some of them don't and uh that's why the shelves of stock basically we have e-commerce. So there are a lot of great things happening in this economy, but the federal government is like the termites in a beautiful house that looks great from the outside, but underneath the foundation, it's being eroded by the termites. The termites are the federal government's spending and borrowing, and the Federal Reserve's monetary policies of creating money out of thin air. So when you look at the beautiful house where the termites are eroding the

foundation, eventually the house is going to collapse or be severely damaged. and that's what's happening to the u s economy we need to get the government out of the way and the point that i would make bill and no one i believe is making this point either on talk radio or the talking heads on on cable tv the federal government is not responsible for the health of the economy the federal government has one uh thing they should be doing get out of the way of the men and women entrepreneurs and what i want to do with my new uh initiative mafi make americans financial independent and the website is mafia usa.com is i want to give everyone in america a 20 to 40 percent raised. And the way we do that is abolish the income tax and payroll taxes

and make Americans financially independent, which is the unfinished part of the American revolution. You know, that make America financially independent again. And so MaffeeUSA.com, is that the website again? That's correct. Okay. That's the correct. I'm going to take a look at that. It's make Americans financially independent because America is about the people, not the, not the America, the nation is about the American people who live in a place called America. And that's the difference between MAGA and mafia. Maga make Americans great again. Bernie Sanders could use that slogan and say, hey, you know what America was really great?

When the government was spending money, tons of money, the way the American people became wealthy is because of investment and savings and growing the economy through the private sector. what about um well but everything you've just talked about here in the last a couple of minutes makes me think i'm i'm spinning around them my question here when it comes to the price of gold here and you're talking about gold perhaps even exploding higher overtime because of the inherent insufficiencies of fiat currency that we're talking about the money that is just is back this way is this part of president trump's plan possibly and the reason i bring this up is that United States has tons and tons and tons and tons of gold.

Is there a possibility that you revaluated then at market value and wipe out technically or back up or say, hey, you know, we're backing up the deficit with it or the national debt, that kind of thing? Is that a possibility of what's going on here? What do you think? Well, if we believe that the dollars should be as good as gold, and we know that there are trillions of dollars outstanding. I just saw a recent article by an investment analyst that's been around for almost 50 years writing about this, and he projects that the price of gold can go to $7,000 to $22,000 to $77,000,

depending on which money supply we used to back by gold. And again, I wrote a piece of years ago saying that in order to get back to a gold-based dollar, the price of gold would have to be $10,000 an ounce. Now that projection is $77,000 an ounce because of the, I think there are $23 trillion outstanding, and there are 261 million ounces of gold in the Treasury that's on the balance on the books of the Federal Reserve. Yeah, but do you believe that might be some of the plan here? Because President Trump has made it clear he wants a weaker dollar, which is also driven some of the gold and silver price increases. He wants a weaker dollar in order to help trade balances.

In other words, make us more competitive on the trade side of things. Does that make sense? No, because the dollar should be a strong. We want a strong currency. Why? We have a strong currency. That means we have strong purchasing power. We have more purchasing power.

We have a better living standard. So again, this isn't another example, Bill, of how the government tries to manage an economy. And we know that the Soviet Union fell apart because of collectivism and socialism and communism. Cuba is the best of the case. North Korea is the best of the case. economies that thrive, economies that have private property, relatively free markets, and if they have more free markets, they would be even stronger. And so we need to get the government out of the area, out of the economy.

I've never heard Trump talk about the free enterprise system. He talks about making deals. The president of the United States is not responsible to make deals with other countries. That's the responsibility of businesses to work in other countries. And if they feel they're not getting a fair deal in other countries, they should do what they do in the United States. get lobbied, hire local lobbyists, and try to get the policies changed in Korea, in the U.K., in Germany, China, wherever they're doing trade. Yeah, but haven't we honestly been running almost state-managed capitalism for quite some time?

Oh, yes. I don't know if President Trump is just being more honest about it than what we've done in the past. What do you think? Yeah, what he should say, again, I wish he would say this. He said he should say that it's not there. responsibility of the federal government to structure the U.S. economy. That's up to the men and women business decision makers because they're responsibility for their companies, companies hire people to provide goods and services

for the American economy. And he should say, in one year, there'll be no more grants to colleges, universities, public schools, local state governments, nonprofit sector. You can have to raise money voluntarily, which is the foundation of the American revolution, of volunteerism. Trump has never said that. All he talks about making deals. And when you try to make deals, you're going to have winners and you can have losers.

That's the nature of government. Government taxes some people and gives it to other people. That's not what the American Revolution was all about. The American Revolution was about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. When you take those three concepts together, it means a free enterprise economy where government is just out of the way of the men and women who build things for us and make living standards as high as they are. Dr. Murray Sabrin, economist, Dr. Murray Sabrin, by the way, Ph.D., author of From Immigrant

to Public Intellectual, an American story among many other titles. He's got a lot going on there in the background. Right now, President Trump is doing his best during this government shutdown to let a lot of government people loose and kind of cutting them loose and freeing them up permanently from our government our government payrolls then going about it the right way is he wise in what he's doing so far what say you well here

here's the problem and I wrote this article of course financial freedom and a constitutional federal budget the reason we have these conflicts if you will is that we don't have a constitutional federal budget so Trump should get out there and say we need to have a budget that reflects what the Constitution authorizes

the federal government to spend money on and as Ronald Reagan pointed out If it boost tax it, if it keeps moving regulated, if it stops moving, subsidize. And the Democrats want to subsidize everything from health care to colleges, to universities, to housing, to transportation. They want to regulate everything and subsidize everything. And Trump should come out with a forceful statement saying, it's not the responsibility of government to do that. We're going to start to downsize the federal government to its constitutional limits.

And that's what he should be talking about. And he should say to the Democrats, okay, in one year, all these subsidies, disappear and people are going to have to determine what medical care they want and how they want to pay for it. And the truth of matter of bill is, and no one has said this, we are overinsured. We have too much medical insurance. We don't need medical insurance to go see the doctor for running nose or a sore throat or anything like that. We need insurance for catastrophic illnesses. That's the purpose of insurance, whether it's property casualty. Yeah, but that's not what Obamacare has tethered us to, doctor. You know that.

Well, that's right. That's why John McCain is the reason we're in this mess because he voted not to repeal Obamacare back in 2017, I think it was. He gave a famous thumbs down on the repeal. So blame John McCain for the situation that we're in because if Obamacare went away, then people would have to make their own decisions. And that's what personal financial responsibility is all about, people determining what they want, when they want it, and how much they want to pay for it. And unfortunately, we have a situation, as you pointed out, we have a state capitalist system, not as bad as the Chinese, because they have state capitalism on steroids, but we have it in the United States with the federal government spending $7 trillion a year, a mind-boggling number, which most people can't get their head around, because no one deals in trillions or even billions or multimillions, they deal in hundreds and thousands of dollars. And so here's 100 plus years of government encroachment that is taking us today, and what I'm calling for in my writing on Substack and my article on financial independence and a Constitution federal budget, is to we have to downsize the federal government based upon the authorized spending in Article 1, Section 8, the Constitution. And this is not going to happen overnight, but it can happen pretty quickly because we can get rid of all the subsidies in one year. Trump can come out in the Oval Office and give a speech just saying,

you know what, folks, what got us to $37 trillion in debt and a $7 trillion budget is because we don't follow the Constitution? So we're going to keep these subsidies in place, and in a year from now, they're going to be all gone, all gone in a year from now. And that will rein in the golden age that Trump wants, because then people will have to decide what's best for themselves, their family, their community. And that's why I'm a big supporter of nonprofits, because the nonprofits would be blooming all over the country,

food banks and shelters and whatever, appetizing humanity with housing. In other words, everything is in place, Bill, to make people better lives all over the country. But wouldn't that also, when you're talking about, okay, these subsidies all go away in a year, wouldn't that also just prepare for a big economic shock at the same time of a recession,

a pretty severe recession of nothing else during the adjustment period? Would that be fair? I don't think so because what happened, because taxes would go down. People would have more money to take care of themselves that have more money to donate to the local nonprofit organizations. And on my MafiaUSA.com website, I show the nonprofits that I'm supporting personally. And with some of the profits from the sale of the Mafie hat, I'll be donating to these organizations.

And hopefully we'll have hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of people buy the hat, mafia has and then 90% of the profits will be going to the non-profits and people can do this locally they can set up mafia chapters all across the country this is not a top-down approach this is a grassroots initiative to say enough is enough we're too reliant on the federal government to sustain our lives we need economic freedom and that's the message of mafia yeah make americans make americans financially independent usa dot com right that's that's the way that works. That's it. That's it. All right. You know, now, of course, that might be a tough sell in Oregon. You know why? Because, you know, the governor here being a hard, hard lefty, you know,

it's like, unless we're getting lots of grant stream funding for services, we can't possibly be great again here, Dr. Sabred. Well, this is, this is why we're in an ideological battle between the people in Washington and people in the heartland and in the grassroots. Who doesn't want be financial independent. I don't know anyone, any adult that says they want to be financially dependent on Washington. But what's happened over the decades is we've built up this huge welfare state, this huge corporate welfare state as well, and people look to Washington for solutions. This is the legacy of the Great Depression, where people look to Washington when the economy imploded, and we had 25% unemployment and massive bankruptcies. And people thought the federal

government was going to be the salvation for these problems. And it wasn't. All it did is cement the New Deal in America. Then we got the Great Society programs, and then people are so reliant on the federal government. And you know something, and we still have poor homeless and drug-addicted people. Isn't that amazing, after all of this? Absolutely. So, again, his wife, Ronald Reagan said his best, the most terrifying sentence in the English languages. I'm from the government.

I'm here to help you. Dr. Murray Sabre, an economist, noted there. We're going to get all your information up, so I'm going to check this out. I'll get back to you. We'll have you back here. mafia, M-A-I-F-U-S-A-M-A-F-I-S-A-M-A-M-A-F-I-I-U-SA. Yeah, M-A-F-I-U-SA, which is Make Americans Financially Independent U.S.A.com. That's what it stands for, you know, the mafia there.

And I, at first, you know, it's not mafia, mafi, right? We want to be clear about that. Well, the thing is, if you join this initiative, you'll become a certified mafioso, so it's okay. I love that. Hey, doctor, a pleasure, very stimulating talk, and interesting times to be in these markets for the reasons that you have described for sure. Thanks for being on the show.

We'll have you back, and I'll get your substack information up too, okay? My pleasure, Bill. Thanks so much. Thank you very much. Economist, Dr. Murray Savarin on KMED and KMEDHD and KMEDHD-HD-EGG Grants Pass. I stopped smoking with more...