Bill Meyer Show Podcast - Sponsored by Clouser Drilling www.ClouserDrilling.com - 12-09-25_TUESDAY_7AM

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

Independent journalist and White House pool reporter Corinne Cliford from SAT123 dot com - she interviewed mother of Pipe Bomb Suspect Michael Cole Jr. Former state senator Baertschiger on our local pol drama, Rayfield, Kotek, quite the pair.

The Bill Meyer Show podcast is sponsored by Klauser Drilling. They've been leading the way in southern Oregon well drilling for over 50 years. Find out more about them at Klausurrilling.com. Weather through the weekend. Hey, I appreciate you being here seven minutes after seven on Pebble in Your Shoe Tuesday. This is the Bill Meyer show. Quick email of the day, and that is sponsored by Dr. Steve Nelson and Central Point Family Dentistry. Central Point Family Dentistry.com is the website.

It's right next door to the Mazadlan Mexican restaurant. And that is on Freeman Way, okay? And by the way, while you wait, crowns available, they have an in-house lab. Works great. I've used it to, I want to say two or three times with them, okay? And I'm going to give an email of the day to Mindy. Mindy writes me this morning, Bill, furthering today's conversation, what is the purpose of going into downtown Medford? To shop until you drop, enjoy a nice lunch, and do more shopping.

People riding their bicycles aren't really planning on doing a lot of shopping. How are they going to carry all of those packages? We need to encourage cars in the downtown area, not bikes, to support the stores. The city council needs to understand the actual purpose of visiting downtown Medford. Oh, no, it's ecotourism, Indy. I'm just being sarcastic. I mean, eco, we're here to walk downtown and then watch and then look at what used to be, I guess. I'm being a little sarcastic, but your point is well taken, and I appreciate you emailing Bill at Billmeyer's show.com.

All right. Coming up here, we're delving into the identity of the pipe bomber. Have a reporter coming up next who spoke with his mother. It had an interesting talk, and we'll have that individual coming up. This hour of the Bill Meyer show is sponsored by Glacier Heating and Air, making five. Here's Bill Meyer. We're going to talk a bit about the pipe bombing suspect here. There's been a lot of writing about this, but Corrine Clifford is on the case. Corrine is an independent journalist, White House Press Corps member.

and an official spokesperson for sat one, two, three, dot com. Kareen, it's a pleasure having you on. Welcome. It is such a beautiful day in Washington, D.C. It's 28 degrees outside. 28 degrees and beautiful. So in other words, it's that crisp and cold, swampy day, right? It is freezing, and it's shocking.

I don't even know why we have winter. It's such a waste of time. Oh, glad to hear that. Hey, before we get into the pipe bomber story that you've been working on here, Corrine, I wanted to tell people about the SAT123.com is all about because it's a pretty interesting group of people there. Well, I think it's really important to be prepared for any emergency. When I went to the neighborhood that the alleged pipe bomber lives in, it's in Woodbridge,

Virginia, and I made sure that I had my satellite phone just in case it was a dead end road and I got stuck somewhere. I made sure that I had my bulletproof backpack. I made sure that I had my keys and important stuff in Faraday bags inside the bulletproof backpack with the satellite phone. Actually, one of the alleged pipe bombers' neighbors threatened me. And so the bottom line is that I was prepared in case anything happened. If shots got fired, I had my backpack and I was prepared.

So I want everyone to go to SAT-123. It's SAT-123.com. And this makes the perfect Christmas holiday gifts for everyone you care about. Well, you know, nothing says love like giving somebody a bulletproof backpack, Corrine. Exactly. All right. Exactly. You get me a little bit on that.

Yeah, I get, you know, that is kind of the world that you're working with, right? So you were already threatened by going to the pipe bomb suspect Brian Cole Jr.'s house? So you were threatened by neighbors. Basically, I made letters, and I put them in the mailbox. of all the neighbors, giving them my phone number and my email, if they wanted to tell me anything about the alleged pipe bomber Brian Cole Jr. He's a 30-year-old man. Of course, he's black. He is, I'm being told he's a very, very introverted. He's very quiet. Now we're getting reports that he likes to follow Little Pony. His mother told me very clearly

that he's autistic. And, you know, he's asexual, allegedly, allegedly. He works for his father, Brian Cole, Sr., who's actually very well known in the black power circles, and he is a bail bondsman. So they know how to handle the rules when people get arrested. And of course, the mother was told that she couldn't talk to me. They've hired a high-powered lawyer. They're not raising any money. They're not asking for any money for the legal build. The neighborhood is actually a pretty decent neighborhood. I would live in the neighborhood. It's super cute. Christmas lights everywhere. Predominantly a white neighborhood. Basically, you know, super, super cute, seems very safe and very clean, very all-American. And, you know,

when I talk to the alleged pipe bomber's mother, her name is Delicia. Now, and she didn't have any trouble talking with you at first, or was it later that everybody, you know, that she shut up, that kind of thing. I mean, she wouldn't tell me the things I wanted to know from the very beginning, but she opened the door to me, and we looked at each other in the eyes, and, you know, I was crying with her. It's a very sad situation because she told me that her son is innocent. Of course, every mother would say that.

Potentially every mother would say that, but I don't think the mother of the assassin of Charlie Kirk is saying that. So this woman really connected with me. She didn't wear a mask. She opened the door. I saw Brian Cole Jr.'s dog. He didn't bark at me. It was a really calm, you know, decent household. They didn't have Christmas lights up yet because they'd been through a lot. But the bottom line is that, you know, she said her son is autistic. He's introverted. You know, he lives with her. It's her baby. And that she believes he was set up. She said her lawyers told her. The lawyer told her not to talk to press. Obviously, you know, I gave her my phone number. And I said, are you a Trump supporter? She said, no. And basically, I said, is your son a Trump supporter? And she honestly said she doesn't really know, but she doesn't think so.

And she said that, you know, he works for his father and that he goes to the 7-Eleven. He walks his dog. You know, he doesn't have friends, a lot of friends. And, you know, it's going to be hard to get a lot of info about him because he's very introverted. But what I think is so critical and key is that he wears very thick glasses. So if you look at the footage that they currently have of the pipe bomber that they've had during the whole Biden regime, the fact that they didn't arrest Brian Cole, Jr., I think it's because he is black, and the Biden regime didn't want to arrest a black man. But this is also going to be terrible for President Trump's administration if the FBI arrest an innocent man. Obviously, this all happened January 6, 2021.

he won. I don't think the pipe bomber worked alone. And so this is going to be very interesting to see what the pipe bomber's, you know, lawyer says on Monday, December 15th, the next court date because the neighbors told me nothing, nothing. They said he's a very quiet person. He walks his dog. They said that the family has no drama. You know, both the parents are no longer together, but I know they're very close, and they really care about their son. The most was crying with me. So I didn't film or I didn't videotape her. I was so respectful. And I have compassion for this situation because there really is not that much evidence that this man, Brian Cole Jr. did much, except his car was in the area. Maybe there's some phone records.

We are really not getting to the core truth, which is pretty normal in FBI investigations. They keep a lot from us. But the problem is that last month, Steve from Texas, who's a journalist for the blade, told us that the pipe farmer was a white, all-American female, alleged lesbian CIA agent. Yeah, that's, that was what I was kind of wondering about, because that's what everybody was falling on there, falling all over a few weeks ago, saying that it was someone. And, you know, that kind of made more sense in some ways, okay, someone, a CIA worker of some sort, or someone that's trying to get in good with the CIA, because that whole planting of the pipe bomb felt, but of course what it felt like doesn't necessarily mean it was, you know, felt like an insider op of some sort, wouldn't you say? It felt that way all this time. I mean, it just doesn't make any sense because there's no way a pipe bomber

would be working alone, especially on January 6, 2021. There was so much going on that day, But I definitely do not think that this potential alleged pipe bomber is a Trump supporter. I think that he was very introverted and potentially he got radicalized online. I think he's some type of Antifa group. And potentially he was on discord. But no one's giving us the facts. No one's telling us anything. And the judge in his particular case is very bizarre.

I've covered U.S. federal court for the last four years. I've never heard of his magistrate judge before. I can barely pronounce the judge's name, and we're not getting information. Brian Cole, Jr. is sitting in the D.C. jail. Obviously, I'm not allowed to visit him. Even his own mother told me that she had not been able to visit in yet. But I asked her, do you want to raise money? Do you want a bill to give son, go and raise money?

She said, no, they don't need money. They don't need legal fees. They don't need anything. You know, they come from a really well-financed background, and so... Do they have a background in government intelligence? I'm just curious. I'm trying to remember what you said about that. No, so the father is a very successful bail bondsman.

He owns multiple bail bonds companies in approximately 20 states. So he knows how to handle this stuff, and the son works for him. And the son is just loved by his mother, and the family, the grandma loves the son. No one has said anything about the son. But he could potentially, you know, is very introverted. What I'm worried about is the pipe bomber once again, I told you, he, the alleged pipe bomber, wears very thick glasses. So I asked the mother, are there contact lenses that he could have worn to allow him to actually

drive into Washington, D.C., and plant these bombs? And she said no to me. Does he not normally drive? Is that what you're saying? I mean, she says he drives, but she just can't imagine that her son would do this. And, you know, he does wear glasses that are very thick. So if he did do that, he would have had access to contact lenses, and she just doesn't think that's possible. Wow.

So that's just a little key to the case that made no sense. When he showed up in federal court last week for his first court date, he was wearing very thick glasses. Now, I remember, you know, the part about this that the mother thinks that he was set up, And that's a reasonable theory. If you're going to set up someone, you could set up someone who is autistic, right? Who is sort of task-oriented, but not really asking many questions. And this still gives me a lot of questions, doesn't it for you, Corrine? Yes, I'm very concerned about the situation because President Trump does not intend to arrest an innocent black man.

President Trump has pardoned Little Wayne and so many, so many black people. And I think that, you know, it's important to know his pardon czar for the pardon czar for President Trump is Alice Johnson. And I just saw her the other day at a Christmas party. And she's like this beautiful black woman. So I don't want this to turn into a race issue. And I don't think President Trump really knows what's going on because he's so overwhelmed trying to create a peace. treaty between Ukraine and Russia. But do you think it's being, but do you believe, Corrine, that this is being turned into a race issue here with the arrest of Brian? I am concerned that potentially

Kas Patel, the leader of our FBI is getting misinformation. I'll keep you updated with this, potentially inside the FBI, there are powers that be that want to give Kashtel misinformation. But I know in the end, Dan Bongino and Cash Patel will make the right decision. And I'm going to stand by whatever, you know, the Trump administration FBI gives us the evidence for, but right now the evidence is totally unclear because the pipe farmer's mother told me that they hadn't confiscated her son's a computer yet. What? So I don't really understand how this is possible.

Yeah, I would have thought that, you know, confiscation of computer and other electronic devices is usually a standard operating procedure for that, Corrine. Exactly. Exactly. So the truth just doesn't make any. sense right now. The neighbors are, you know, just have nothing important to say, and it's just a very quiet kid. It is possible that he was part of an Antifa group, but he definitely did not act alone. And the materials that they said he bought, he bought in 2019. Okay, and they, but they

claim they have him dead to rights on purchasing then? We know that? Yeah, in 2019, I mean, that's just, just makes the whole situation more complex. a couple of years prior to the actual event of January 6th. So this is just going to get very, very interesting because if there's powers that be in the FBI that are giving counsel to tell misinformation, you know, they need to be fired. And that's my biggest issue is that we haven't fired the people who caused all the problems under the Biden regime. Now, they had this information all the long, right, in the Biden administration.

They had this information about Brian? Yeah, Brian Cole Jr. They knew about it all along and they never arrested him. Obviously, I think it's because he is a black American man. And I think that they didn't, the Biden regime didn't want to do that. But, you know, the bottom line is that they could have. And so if he was a Trump supporter, if there was any way to blame this on President Trump or MAGA, they would have. In this case, his family are Democrats, potentially more conservative Democrats. And but they know how to handle the situation. and not worried about raising money for their son. They do love their son, and they're concerned about their son's safety. So potentially the son was radicalized by an online group. So hopefully we're going to learn all of this. I think that the son is safe. I think the father knows how to handle the jail and prison system.

So we're not looking for any sort of Epstein experience. Yeah, I'm not concerned about that. I think his father is a very outspoken black man. actually respect the father. He's done some stuff in the past with a lawyer named Billy that I really respect. And so, you know, there's a history with the father. But the bottom line is that I just don't understand how this is happening. In the manner that it's happening, we have so little information.

And so I'm working with the team of people that I don't want to name right now, but we have a whole group of people that are working on this. And I will follow, you know, whatever Cashel gives us the ever. evidence to conclude. Of course, I'm going to stand up for President Trump's DOJ. But right now, this particular person, Brian Cole Jr., seems innocent. Interesting. Corrine Clifford, once again, independent journalist, White House press Corps member, and spokesperson for Sat 123.com. Now, you tend to do video journalism. Do you have a site or someplace that people can go to watch what you're doing on this story?

Yes, it's really important that everyone go to my ex and spell my name. properly. It's C-O-R-I-N-E-C-L-I-F with 1-F-O-R-D. I like to post on X, and then I do about 7 to 10 news shows per day, and then I have my own news show, but X will always tell you where I'm going and what I'm doing and how I'm reporting on things, because I do a lot of different topics than one day. From the pipe bomber's house, the alleged pipe bomber's house, in Woodbridge, Virginia, I went to the Kennedy Center's honor ceremony. it was an amazing experience on Sunday night. So I went from a really traumatic, miserable situation

where I was interviewing people in the neighborhood and at the local 7-Eleven to putting on a ball gown and going and honoring some of the most famous people in America. Now that's really cool. You know, the one thing I'm asking you, though, I wanted to ask you, rumor has it that ever since President Trump really ended up taking over the Kennedy Center

and getting stuff out that, the woke is gone, but the crowds are gone. Would you agree with that? Never. I've never seen a place so crowded. There were so many people. There was not even a seat left. And the seat, the VIP seats were $125,000. You know, the Kennedy Center has raised over, you know, $25 million this year. I've only been there three times this year because I'm very busy, but it was overwhelmingly crowded. They are sold out of their subscriptions. They have subscriptions. everyone is going there. That's really interesting because I was just reading a Wapop,

a Washington Post story over the weekend. They were talking about how nobody's going to the Kennedy Center and that the seats are empty, is what they were saying. I mean, that's the most ridiculous story I've ever heard. I've never seen more people in one location. Okay. All right. A performing arts center in my entire life.

And every time I go to the Kennedy Center, I mean, I was there for Charlie Kirk's Memorial, it was out of control. So many people. All right. Hey, Corrine, I appreciate you giving us a little look behind the scenes there. Thanks for interviewing a Brian Cole Jr.'s mother and giving us a little bit of that flavor. And I'll get your ex posted up there.

In fact, I'll start following you on that, too, just so I can see what you're up to, okay? I appreciate that. Happy holidays, and I have a beautiful Christmas experience. It is going to be a beautiful holiday season, and I will keep you updated on what's happening in Washington, D.C., because it does affect the world. All right. From your lips there, Corrine. Thanks so much. Corrine Clifford once again, independent journalist, and we'll get that all up on KMADE.com.

Thanks, Corrine. Take care now. God bless you. God bless you, too. 729 at KMED. Hi, this is Bill Meyer, and I'm with Cherise from No Wires Now, your Dish Premier local retailer. It's time to switch to dish. If you have direct TV. Eating an air business.

News Talk 1063, KMED. This is the Bill Myers Show. Hey, heads up tomorrow at the Jackson County Commission. I've been summoned. been summoned there, but it's actually for a, a good thing. I'm kind of, kind of a little red-faced over this because I'm not very good at self-blowing my, well, you know, blowing my own horn, that kind of thing. But tomorrow, Jackson County Commission, I'm going to be presented with the Chairman's Award. Commissioner Roberts will be giving me the Chairman's Award, and it's

something the Chairman gives away once a year. And this is for people who make a different in lives in Jackson County and I'm just just amazed about this and and there's been a lot of great people that have been a part of this including Kevin Lamson. He ended up getting it last year. Hearts with a Mission. Great guy. Great work and Darcy Manself got it in 2023 for her work on I mean she is the pear blossom. You know we all know that right and all the other work that she has done and I'll be getting the chairman's award tomorrow at 9.30. So it's open to the public if you wanted to drop by

and say hello and just a that's kind of a big deal. It's, it's nice to be recognized. It really is. Holly's here too. We recognize you. Good morning, Ollie. Welcome. Yeah, I'm looking forward to your event tomorrow.

I've been planning, plenty to go for a month because you do so much for the community and you should be recognized. Well, that's very kind. It's very kind of you. But we'll see what I've never been involved in something like this. Forty-five years of

broadcasting, it's quite a deal. So I've just like, okay. A little shocked. Sorry, thanks. You know, that kind of thing. Well, deserve. Well, deserve. Looking forward to being there. Oh, thank you, Holly. What's up with you today? Well, I was reading this letter that came in from Ron

and Ron Smith. Oh, this was Commissioner Smith. I wasn't sure how to how to read that, but I don't know if recusing is the right thing to do for him, just my opinion. Well, he's in a tough spot. I mean, he's trying really hard to be the friend to everyone and to look like the paragon of virtue in a sea of vipers. But in reality, I don't think it's being received very well that, you know, what I'm seeing, it's not being received well at all because his job is to know who would be best in that spot and to help choose the very best person for the county. And that's kind of what I was thinking, too. You know, there's,

and it just struck me as taking a dive. And I don't like using that term, but that's what it felt like to me. And maybe I'm being unfair. I don't want to be unfair because I like Ron. Ron's a good guy there. Well, yeah, it's a tough thing. I don't want to say anything negative about Ron, but I do, I do feel that it's the job of the commissioners to do the right thing. and I think he's terrified that he's going to be recalled, and so he's starting to make his decisions based on not getting dumped out of his seat. Well, the problem with that, though, is that as the hissy fitters, as I term it, you know, the recall type, they'll come, I mean, once they end up doing the Chris Barnett recall,

they'll probably regroup, and then they'll go after him too. I just think that's kind of the lay of the political land in Josephine County right now, don't you think? it appears to be and it looks like to me what's happening is that he's kind of been threatened away from making any decision that somebody wouldn't like you know i everybody has a point of view i had a point of view everybody has a point of view and they're trying to present to ron what they think is the best thing for the county and he's having analysis paralysis i believe so he's just stepping back doesn't want to be involved but he's trying right now to frame it as being a real virtue that

that he's not, that he's going to recuse himself. Okay, well, what would make Sheriff Dave Daniel and the other elected officials any better at choosing a county commissioner than having Commissioner Ron Smith as part of it, who's on the board right now? I don't get that. Well, that's the big question. And I think people are not, this isn't being received well at all. You know, people are just looking at it, thinking that it's all personal, you know,

he's trying very hard to hang on to his position. and yeah I understand that but you know it sometimes it just sometimes you just have to look at a situation realize that's your job and do your job all right point well taken holly you being a former gop chair here always like i using you as a sounding board appreciate the call okay you be well thank you tomorrow thank you 736 former state senator herman Barichickr joins me here in a few. Over the last 40 years. Welcome to the Bill Myers Show on 1063 KMED.

Give Bill a call at 541-770-5-633. That's 720 KM-E-D. All right, we have Gene here. We also got Mark and then we got Herman. It's going to be a great talk this morning. Hi, Gene. What's on your mind, huh? Well, the people that keep coming up with three calls,

I would like to know why don't they put their names and political affiliations on there make it the rule that you have to in order to initiate a recall and can you vote for like Chris Barnett if he gets recall

can we vote to put him back in? I will imagine in the next election cycle he could then run for the position yeah there's always a possibility I might have to ask a herbert about that those rules are maybe escaping me, but yeah, very possible, but next time, it wouldn't be, it would be the next time the county commission vote is being taken, okay? Well, I'd like, if they're getting recalled, I'd like to put him back in again. All right.

Appreciate the call, Gene. Let me go to Mark. Hey, Mark, how are you doing this morning? What's up? Hello? I wanted to comment on the deer population issue. Oh, yeah, that talk I had yesterday with Bill Simpson, sure. Yeah.

I think some of his ideas were a little crazy, but that's all right. Just to give you a little background, I've hunted everything there is to hunt in this area. I'm 71. In high school, my neighbor had a pack of dogs, and we hunted cats and bear with his dog. Then the do-goaters from the city come along. and they outlawed hunting with dogs because it was inhumane to the dog. Well, I'm sorry, the dogs very rarely got hurt, almost never got killed. And you were able to hunt the cat and trium, and it's a one-shot clean kill.

You don't have 150 to 180-pound animal that's wounded and pissed off, running around in the wood, taken out whoever they're pissed off at. So are you not just looking at the herbivory? saying, hey, we should have a moratorium on hunting, on hunting deer and elk, let the populations rebuild. You're thinking it's a cat problem more than anything else? Is that what you're thinking, Mark? Okay.

Let me finish the story. Okay, sorry. In high school, they put out cat tag. They only allowed you to kill so many cats each year. They controlled the population. Cats have a hundred mile territory, and cats are very territorial. They don't like sharing with other cats. So what has happened, I can't remember exactly what year they passed the law against fusing dogs,

but it was somewhere in the now mid-70s or 80s. So you've had 30 or 40 years of cats populating with no real control over the amount of cats. It isn't the flipping wolves, that's the problem. It's the cat. All right, Mark Hello, Mark? Yeah. Yeah, go ahead and wrap that.

Give me your conclusion on that. Well, you've got to go back to hunting caps reasonably. All right. I appreciate the call. Let me run that by Herman because, of course, former State Senator Herman Berchiger, you've hunted a time or two in your life, having you, Herman? Welcome back.

Yeah, well, I'll give you a, you know, going back to 2020, which was my last year in the Senate, and I worked very closely with Kurt Melcher, who was the director of Oregon Fish and Wildlife. So let me throw a couple stats out here, let everybody soak in. First of all, we have twice as many mountain lions in Oregon than what we feel we need, okay? And that's because they are very hard to hunt without hounds. You can hunt them, but that's pretty tough. So that's one stat.

The other stat that's really surprised me. We kill as many dears with our vehicle as we do with our rifles. I didn't know that. Yes. Yes. And then it even makes it worse. When the predators push the game out of the mountain and closer to our communities because they feel somewhat safer, that even makes it worse, you know.

And you've got to always remember, dear, have migration patterns, even in this day, and they're all, they're disturbed because of people now. Okay, so the natural, so we got all these things going on. And what it boils down to, Bill, is management. We really, and I'm not anti-wolf, but they need to be managed. I'm not anti-cougar. They need to be managed. It's all a management because the management replaces the, the industry. interventions that people have made on the wildlife community, if that makes sense.

All right, fair enough. Now, now we have a, I know you can't get too involved in this conversation, but where do you think about that Ron Smith statement last night? That statement about he's recusing himself with Andreas's Bleck's resignation from the board on Friday. And the part that jumped out at me, though, is surprisingly for some honest, honesty wasn't important at all. It left me with the disturbing impression that a crook is acceptable as long as he is their crook. And I'm thinking, boy, who gets selected on that commission? Are they a crook? Is that what's going on? Well, you know, words have meanings

in politics. You better be very careful of words. I don't think that was really the appropriate word to use. I understand his position. He's getting a lot of pressure, and there is, you know, there's a difference. He says he's threatened. Well, you have to really be careful with that because it's against a lot of threatened an elected official to, you know. Now, people can lobby pretty heavy, but if he really is feeling threatened for his life, well-being, and his family, he needs to talk to law enforcement because it's simply against the law. He can't do that.

Okay. Well, but what has bothered me about this, though, is that I don't see why recusing yourself from this. To me, this is a very important decision, and you're paid $100,000 a year or so with paying benefits, roughly speaking, to make hard decisions, and you're not always going to be popular. That's just the whole purpose of being an elected official.

I mean, if anybody knows not being popular because of decisions, you've had to deal with that, haven't you? Oh, lots of times, you know, because in the Oregon Senate, you have to vote. you don't get to say, I'm present. You have to vote. So, yeah, there's a lot of times that you'd want to stick your head under the desk and vote,

but, you know, at the end of the day, you have to, you just have to vote you. That's what you're there to do is to make those, and they can be very, very tough decision. Very tough. Yeah. All I'm saying is that I would much prefer that a commissioner ends up taking a stand on who they think might be best on the board, then, I mean, nothing against Sheriff Dave Daniel, but there's

nothing about Sheriff Dave Daniels that is any different than, no, Wally Hicks or any of the other elected officials that are in Josephine County. What makes that special? What makes it any more honest, I guess, to have them, to have a part of it, though? You know, I obviously

would look at it at a different angle than Commissioner Smith. I'd look at an angle as I'd want to participate with somebody that, in shoes, somebody I'm going to have to work with. Yeah. So that's how I would look at it. But obviously, he, you know, he feels, it's a tough spot.

There's no question about it. Okay. All right. You know? So I guess it's easy for me to look at it and say, oh, just make a decision and staying with it, I guess. Okay. Because this is making a decision to not make a decision, you know, essentially is what's

going on, at least from that statement. Yeah. Like I always say, my experience is. Senate, you got to vote. And you know, what they'll do in the Senate is they'll do a call of the Senate. So, you know, we call it taking a walk. So you kind of like, you know, sneak out the back door or hiding a telephone booth or something, you know. And then all of a sudden, somebody will raise their hand and say, call of the Senate. And the Senate president will stop everything. And he will he will ask the Sergeant of Arms to bar the doors and they're going looking for you

and they're going to drag you in there and you're voting. So it's a very serious deal in the Senate. That's really what they say. Senate presidents say, Sergeant Arms, bar the doors and call of the Senate. And then they'll do a roll call. They'll figure out who's not there and they will send people looking for them. All right. Fair enough, Herman.

Now, you've been involved in the Board of Commission. And in the state Senate, what is the procedure at this point? Because now that Andres Black has resigned, there is an opening on that commission. What happens? And then what happens if Chris Barnett is pulled out? I'll talk with him. Maybe I'll talk with him tomorrow about things. Well, so that's a two-part thing.

So let's deal with part one. Okay. And that's replaced Andre's Blake. So, you know, they'll put out a press release and entertain. people that are interested in the positions, and it'll go to those, it'll go to Chris Barnett, Commissioner Barnett and Commissioner Smith to make a decision. If they cannot make a decision, or one person picks one and one person picks another, and they can't come to a decision, then it goes to the other elected officials. Now, this may be silly

to ask it probably wouldn't be, but if Commissioner Ron Smith, who has said he is going to, in his state, but that he's going to recuse himself from this process, can Commissioner Barnett just select the next one himself? Or does there have to be more than one? No, no. You have a quorum, so you need two votes. All right. Because there's three, there are three commissioners. So, yeah. All right. So then what happens? What happens then? So it goes to the elected officials, and so then there will be, you know, let's say, let's say... So we have the county clerk, and we have Wally Hicks, and we have Sheriff Dave Daniel. The sheriff, the surveyor, the treasurer, the treasurer, and the assessor.

All right. And the assessor, so there are six people, six people. Yeah, and there's nine altogether, you know, if all three commissioners were there. there. Well, of course, one's gone. So that's eight. So you have eight. So there is an opportunity to have a tie. Yeah. And if you, if you have a tie, then the governor picks. Then the go. Oh, boy. No. No, no. We don't want Tina Kotech choosing the next. Of course, I don't know. Maybe the hissy fidders that are pushing the recalls and all these other sort of things. Maybe they'd like Tina Kotech to pick the next commissioner.

Absolutely. Absolutely. You know. But, you know, Everybody's elected at this. You know, everybody is elected. That means they're all being watched. And, you know, that's one thing about voting in politics. There's a record of your vote. Sure. You know, it never goes away.

It's etched and granted for the millennium. It never goes away. Your vote never goes away. Yeah, that is the challenge when you have people running for re-election or running for governor in this case, too, as we've talked about that in the past. you have a voting record okay the voting record if it's a good voting record good for you if it's not so good okay how do you work that okay now let us uh since we did mention tina kotech here tina kotech dan rafield what is driving that unholy relationship uh in my view i swear that

dan rafield all he uh exists to do is to he thinks that as the ag it is his job to sue the trump administration. I'm trying to figure out how he's actually protecting the people of Oregon right now. You have any thoughts on that? Yeah. Well, it's all partisan politics. And, you know, in my eight years in the Senate, Tina Kotech, she was, you know, speaker of the House. She was the most partisan person in the Senate. In fact, I feel, it's my opinion, is she started this, this rabid partisanship in Oregon government. Really? I agree. Yeah. Because before she, was speaker and everything. Remember what I told you? You know, like in the Senate, if it didn't have a Republican vote, the Senate president wouldn't bring it to the floor. I mean...

Yeah, they were looking for some conciliatory, kind of a conciliatory view of things, or at least the... Absolutely. I mean, in those days, it was like, you know, I think the rest of the way to explain it, Republicans and Democrats would both agree on the problem, but then have a different view on the solution. And leadership forced you to come up with something palatable that you could kind of both, you know, tolerate. But that's over now. So that's all gone. Now it's, so what? We got the vote.

So just shut up. That's really what goes on in Oregon politics now. So it's just all smash mouth. Smash mouth is all of it is. And that really started with Kotech. She is so partisan. What about Governor Brown? Was she more conciliatory or not?

I know people are going to throw rocks at me, and after all I've been through with Governor Brown and shutting the legislator down a few times and everything, actually her and I got along pretty good. No kidding. Okay. Yes. We disagreed adamantly, but we could sit down. I had so many meetings.

I was in her office when I was in all the time, all the time, working out things and working. And she was not near as partisan as Tina Kotech. So Tina Kotech is truly, strictly, a political animal, and that's it. That's her way or no way. I mean, it is really bad. I know that Dan Rayfield, of course, he is having to, as I was joking on social media. media the other day, that he has a very difficult decision to make because the Trump administration has said, hey, we want the immigration status of all the people on the Oregon Health Plan,

or the Oregon Trail Card, rather, you know, the SNAP benefits there. And he says that it is a horrible thing to ask for. It's sensitive. It's unlawful. Is he speaking about unlawful, in your opinion, based on federal law or unlawful based on sanctuary state stuff? What do you think? I think Sanctuary State stuff. So I'll tell you a little, Dan's a really, he's actually a really nice guy, okay? Worked with him, you know, talking about sports, go have a beer, whatever. It's just a, but he is a soldier. He does what he is told, let me tell you.

Oh, so he's taking the marching orders essentially from Governor Kotech, even though he's his own elected official. Yeah, that would be my, that would be what I would guess at, yeah, I guess, I listened to him and I listen to some of his statements, I'm like, that's really not Dan, but, you know, that's politics. He's, he's in line and he wants to get elected again. But you always remember, I always thought it was strange. He even ran for AG because he's really, he's not a trial. attorney you know he's not really a law attorney so he anyways but i didn't know that all right yeah yeah he's an attorney but that was you know he was more of a contract i think family law and stuff like that you know so um that's interesting so so the his actions as an ag then rather surprise you given your knowledge of him before yeah because he's really generally he's not a like you know he's just not guy that you get in arguments with and stuff. You know, he's just his personality, but he's in it

now. Okay. All right. Herman, I appreciate a little look behind that curtain once again. I wanted that, Ron, you know, you know, me being a number guru, I've been working on some stuff with some other people that are smarter than me. Just really quick, Bill, I want to tell you what's going on with the numbers in Oregon. This is why they're, this is why they're, this is why people are signing the petitions. Okay, when I left office, and the last budget cycle I worked on was the 17-19 budget cycle, our total budget was $74.4 billion. Okay, over two years. Great. All funds. Sure. Okay. So 25, 27, 138.9. In five years, the income in Oregon has went up 86, 87 percent, basically.

Getting very close to doubling. Are you trying to tell me that wages and salaries doubled within that time and the population doubled, too? No, the populations went down. So in that five years, the state of Oregon has extracted $15,000 per person if you divided by the population. Now, you know, you and I know it doesn't really work that way. But if you just use the population, that's $15,000 per person, they've extracted more than they did in, in 1719. Now, when you look at the federal monies, they came in, you'll notice that, you know,

they're up 80.57%. And so the federal money slithering into the Oregon coffers went up even faster than the tax revenue, the other tax revenue. No, no, it went up a little slower, but that's all that OVED money, okay? That's all that COVID money. Well, that's gone, all right, and there's going to be some more gone. I have a... But the prominent bureaucracy was increased greatly during all that time.

Yeah. So my assumption, and we have to dig deeper into the tea leaves here, but my assumption is that grocery seat tax has really been benefiting. So I guess to cap it all off, Oregon doesn't have an income problem. bill. They have a spending problem. Yeah. There are, there are a lot of, shall we say, political supporters who need to be supported. Is that it? I mean, when you look at general fund that has nothing to do with with federal dollars, okay, 86, 87% in five years. And if you look at the, and if you look

at what inflation has done in those five years, it's 33%. So even then, they still grew, even after the inflation, they grew tremendously on the income side of things. All right. On the income, unbelievable. And the lottery, you look at lottery dollars, they're pretty consistent. You know, that has not really changed much, lottery income. All right. And it's still about $1.1.3 billion dollars by the end of them.

All right. Very good. Okay, Herman. Thanks for the numbers, as always. always appreciate that that look behind the curtain, okay? We'll talk next week, all right? All right, we'll be you later. You'd be well, and maybe we'll know a little bit more about that county commission situation right now.

Oh, a little bit of drawn. You know, I'm looking forward to some quiet from Joe County government at some point. How about you? You know, the recall people and stuff, they really are to have turned this county upside down. and I hope we get back to some kind of, you know, reasonable tranquility, you know, and just kind of march forward. We got some challenges. We all know we have challenges with dollars and everything.

Well, yeah. Well, you can put all the people. You can put anybody you want in there as County Commission at this point. There's still no money. Yeah, it's tough. I mean, you just got to appropriate the dollars and put them to the, you know, the best places that you can. That's all you can do.

All right. Thanks, Herman. We'll catch you next Tuesday, okay? All right. Yeah, we've got to just get rid of this pie fighting all the time. That needs to really stop. Agreed. Take care. See you around.