Bill Meyer Show Podcast - Sponsored by Clouser Drilling www.ClouserDrilling.com - 12-16-25_TUESDAY_7AM

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

12-16-25_TUESDAY_7AM

The Bill Myers Show podcast is sponsored by Klausur Drilling. They've been leading the way in Southern Oregon well drilling for over 50 years. Find out more about them at Klausurrilling.com. 10 after 7, great to have you here, and Monica's on the show. How you doing, Monica? What's on your mind today? Oh, doing fine. I just called it just to inform you that Providence, Primary Care, and Ashland,

is closing on December 31st. They received a letter in the mail, and they're opening up. on January 12th, Stuart Meadows. Oh, okay, yeah, that's the Flying Saucer. It's what I've nicknamed that one. You know, the Flying Saucer thing? Yeah. Kind of looks like one.

They're closing here in Ashland. So they're closing in Ashland now. So we're seeing both health care systems here in Southern Oregon, or both the hospital systems pulling in their horns a bit here. Yep. And it's, you know, it's too bad, but. Was this one for Providence? Is this the one that was over by the car dealership?

Yeah, Butler. Oh, okay, so Butler, they're gone from that. Okay, I didn't know that. Did they give a reason why? Just curious. No, they just said that this is, you know, I would like to, some important news for you, you know. And I'm going, oh, that's really important. Thank you a lot.

Yeah, your doctor. Yeah, your doctor is gone. Your clinic is gone. So will all the doctors just be moving? moving over to Stewart Meadows? Yes. They're all moving there. So I guess really what's happening is that everyone's just going to have to drive a little bit further

if you are not in the city of Medford then. That's right. Yeah, all right. So anyway, just thought I would let you know. I appreciate knowing that. And we'll have a good conversation with former state senator Ellen DeBore about such matters and maybe get a little more clarification or clarity on what happened with the sale of the hospital in the first place.

And that'll be all coming up. Give me about three minutes. This hour of the Bill Meyer show is sponsored by Glacier Heating and Air, making sense of the heating and air business. It's a musical tradition. Chip Davis, the founder and music... ...that's Hannity for the Fellowship.org. You're hearing the Bill Myers Show on Southern Oregon's home for conservative talk.

Mornings on KMED at 993 KBXG. Call Bill at 770-5633 at 7. 70 KMED. Here's Bill Meyer. Quarter after seven, former State Senator Alan DeBore and also former mayor of Ashland Allen DeBore is here. He's two, two formers in one. It's great to have you on, Senator. Welcome back. Good to have you on. Thank you, Bill. Trying times we're in.

Yeah, and been a lot of tumult surrounding the closure, the coming closure of Ashland Community Hospital. The Asante Corporation is going to transition. it into a satellite campus of the Rogue Regional Medical Center, which made some big changes. And could you take us back to when you were involved in the sale of the hospital in the first place? Because Ashland Community Hospital was financially challenged back in those days. Was it not? What ended up triggering that in the first place? It was.

I was on the board with numerous other people that were trying to make decisions to help both the employees of Ashland Community Hospital and allow better operation. As you know, small hospitals. Actually, every hospital in a state of Oregon is having difficulties. A lot of it's the OHA management, new rules, new things, and the legislatures keep adding more and more. They keep passing things such as House Bill 2697. That was mandatory staffing levels.

So we were there trying to fix it. It was in horrible financial shape. and I've then covered $1.4 million in underpayments by a state agency for Medicare and Medicaid, which we collected the $1.4 million, thank to Dr. Alan Bates, who was instrumental in forcing that through the state. The state kept refusing. I think the first offer was $200,000. But this is nothing unusual, too, that the hospital systems, from what I understand, are getting paid anywhere from what 60, 70%, maybe if it's Oregon Health Plan, sometimes as low as close to 50% on what they would normally charge for a service. Isn't that true? It might be more

around 20%. I mean, it is absolutely ridiculous in what Medicare, Medicaid pay, and the creation of really the Obama Health Plan added numerous, numerous coats, um, to, you know, to, and to applying for Medicare reimbursement, Medicaid reimbursement. If you made an error, you don't get paid at all. I mean, it's the whole organization needs to change for the state. Community hospitals are absolutely necessary. I know that Asante said there was what, I think, 34 births. What they meant to say, there was 34 births by Ashland residents.

It's actually about 230 births. Yeah, now they did put that. I was reading the press release from this because this has become a bone of contention in public reaction to this about the, about the, you know, the number of births here. And they did say that, 37 births from Ashland residents, they say, in their release took place at the hospital in 2025. But Ashland Community Hospital serves more than just the city of Ashland, I would say. So do you think that was a distortion or what do you think when you saw that claim out there? Just curious. Not to throw them under the bus, but it was a strange number to pull out, I thought.

Yeah, Sante had a meeting the next day in Ashland, up to Ashland Hills, which I attended, and I asked the question. And then it came out, so I think people are probably a little aggressive in saying why they're wanting to close. But Ashland Hospital is an asset that is unbelievable. Had recent friend that had to go to the hospital at Asante actually was outside the room in the hallway for, I think, a day and a half until somebody just raised hell because the beds were all full. The beds in Ashland during COVID were a place that they took people that had long-range COVID. And those beds are irreplaceable, the operational suits. And now they're not actually closing the hospital.

And there's some penalties in the contract we did to sell the hospital if they closed prematurely. Does that penalty include that the hospital reverts to the public ownership, or is that something different? I don't know. No, no, it's just a cash penalty, and I forget how much it is. It's in the millionth. But the hospitals need help. When I was in the Senate, we passed bills and bills and bills telling the hospital what they had to do. And, you know, it's like this staffing thing where it was in the paper where they're getting a $400,000 fine because they didn't meet certain staffing levels.

And the bill required, I'm kind of getting off subject, but the bill required an equal. number of nurses, an equal number of management. The governor appointed the people. And if it wasn't equal, they couldn't vote on anything. So they're in an, they already have staffing levels. And so we create a new level that they have to have a plan for staffing level approved by this committee, which generates the fine. Back to the cell of the hospital. But wasn't it true that it appears that the nurses union was denying being present on the board almost like a negotiating tactic? Wasn't that part of that? I think the whole bill was probably written by union and our state is owned by the union members. I'm very clear to say that I'm okay with unions. I think

they have a purpose, but union members need to talk to their leadership because the leadership of the unions is out of control. I think it's great. Members need to control it in the same of the teacher's union, the nurse's union. We're seeing more and more strikes, walkouts, which harm everybody. I mean, it's not only the union members, but it's patients, citizens, kids that are in school. I mean, it just, there has to be a better way than strikes, which hurts everybody. But anyway, the vote was made to sell the hospital to Dignity Health.

I was really concerned about bringing a third hospital system into the valley, which I think would have hurt the other two. Dignity Health was a Catholic organization. They did not realize that Oregon had the right to die bill, which is against their religion. And they backed out of the deal, and Asante came in and took a call. over the purchase of the hospital. It was great for all the employees hadn't had raises. Morale was pretty much down. Hussante gave the opportunity for people for advancement. Hired a new Sheila Kloke came in as the director of the hospital. Amazing person, now the head of received life. But we need to change the whole thing, how we deliver services. And I think the

hospital desperately needs the beds, whether it may be for seen. care right now, if a person's in there on a medical hold and they have no family, no nothing, they have to have the state, I forget the name of them, there's two people that have to come down and approve the exit of that person from the hospital. There's a group in Medford now that's opened up hotel beds for those people to move into, but you might have somebody sitting there for two or three weeks waiting for it. On a medical hold, waiting for a place to be released to. Former State Senator Alan DeBore with us this morning,

you said that there needs to be a change in the way that the services are provided. And I don't know. Is that even possible because I was just doing some research on what was happening here in Southern Oregon. Three out of four people in Josephine County are on some form of government health care, two out of three in Jackson County, and we're not really generating. We don't have enough people who are actually paying the freight for insurance and or health care. And in fact, if you do go into a hospital and you're going to pay cash as an example, usually you're overcharged to make up for all those who are not.

So how do you fix something like that? That's a huge problem, Senator. Well, just as an example, a very close relationship, a person went in and had surgery, actually went to Washington for specialists. The bill that was received in the mail was $120,000. The doctor in the hospital actually got paid $20,000. So where did the other $100,000 go? Well, the hospital aided. It was actually a loss. And I think part of the problems in Oregon is our expanded Oregon health plan and stuff is not being monitored from the state.

There's people on it. You actually have built fast in, I think, 2018. If you have a child and have no money and a child has a terminal or a really bad illness, move to Oregon, it's free. Are we getting medical tourism right now because of those laws? I would think some because I don't know any other state that's doing that. So we need to tighten. We really need, I think Medicare should be expanded for all and then change completely. When I went on Medicare, I think four years ago, the paperwork, the stuff coming in the mail is beyond belief.

You can't understand it, and I'm pretty astute and stuff, but I can't imagine. And then the fact that you have to go through this whole change process is incredible. There should be a way that Medicare can pay more and pay a fair price, and that people can, I don't know how to say it, but people can get health care. And health care for all is actually free in Oregon. If you're, I don't care if you're from out of the country or you'll hear legally or illegally. if you walk into an emergency room, you will be taken care of. But as you well know, there's a cost to all of that.

There's no such thing as free. There is no free. Right. And we rely on the hospitals to absorb that. Hospitals have to make, I don't say a profit, but they have to have a surplus. And I think hospitals are getting a little carried away with building, giant buildings and stuff. So here's Ashland Hospital that has, I think, 26 beds. and I really want to push Asante for what they could do to those beds

that would help people get care and have a transition. So do you believe that Asante is giving up the ghost on Ashland Community Hospital too early or is what they're making, you know, what they're claiming that the hospital is losing money, you know, quite a bit right now they want to consolidate that care. Howard, you, I mean, you're a business person. You understand how this works. You can read a balance sheet. Absolutely.

Is Asante making a good decision in your view in spite of what it might do to the community? No. I think that they need to look at how can they use Ashland Community Hospital and its beds as an asset. But every hospital in the state is losing money. I have to tell you that as Medicare increases, Oregon Health Plan increases, they aren't getting paid. I think the insurance companies tried to delay payment as much as possible, so cash flow goes down, and we have to fix that.

People in the hospitals need to be paid an adequate salary. They need less control by state and federal that makes all these rules. If you go into your doctor now, how many people do you see doing paperwork? That's a big one. I mean, it's incredible. I mean, and they have coding. The coding errors are non-recoverable. So, you know, people can't pay their bills.

There has to be a better system. But they have to have a surplus. I know that I was telling you about that blogger. I was talking about that blogger yesterday, kind of a Bernie-bro-type person from the East Coast who was writing about this, and he claimed that Ashland Community Hospital actually made money last year, $10 million. But I thought he was looking at the balance sheet kind of a facile way or kind of ignoring it as if As if Asante shouldn't be billed for a portion of their lawyers and all the other support staff that allow a hospital to keep going. But you agree with that?

and then maybe is there another way of looking at this that perhaps Asante is charging Ashland Community Hospital too much of that percentage and then just closing it because it would be the easiest thing for them to do. I mean, any thoughts on that? Give me your take on it. Well, let's not say closing because they're changing it to a satellite, which has other rules and all the... Yeah, but they're closing the inpatient bed side of it, right?

They're closing that aspect of the hospital, correct? Well, I hope that as they're going through a six-month... process to talk about this and they'll take some input and of course they've had huge CEO changes I mean somebody comes in somebody goes and you know they need to look at how can we expand our coverage and our scope make sure we take care of our people so we're not going on strike or threatened with strike all the time look at these beds and see how it can help like the release of mental patients or people that have nobody to take care of them.

How can we take care of the homeless that really need some mental help and stuff and expand that process? So here is the clean slate. You've got X amount of beds. The surgical centers will still stay there with the same day surgery, but not overnight. You know, the doctors are opening all these surgery centers. I don't think they can keep people overnight.

There was a bill in the Senate trying to allow them to keep people overnight. which then kind of makes them into a hospital, you know. Is there anything that the upcoming short session, I know you're not in the Senate any longer, but is there anything that is being discussed that you're aware of that might be worthy of mentioned? There'll be, I'm going to guess, seven or eight hundred bills into a 90-day session. in good leadership like President Courtney and the Senate had, he said you can bring two bills each. It should be one. You're there for, I don't like the short session, never did, voted against it.

But they bring so much work and so many bills being written when the short session should just be about balancing the budget, fixing bills. That's what I was supposed to be. It was supposed to be about emergencies, but I would dare say that the hospital situation may be, you say they're all. losing money. And it's true. You're right. I've looked this up. And we're going to see more hospital closings. It's not just going to be Ashland community, right? No, we can't have it. Five of my six grandchildren were born at Ashland Hospital. And two of them live, you know, 20 miles away. but people came to Ashland Hospital because it was an alternate birthing. And you could listen.

The nurses are outstanding. The doctors doing it are outstanding. If you're going to have a birth in the assonti, I assume you're going to come in and go through the system. But water bursts in Ashland, natural birth in Ashland, that's why 200 and some people come to Ashland from other areas. Is that a riskier birth that you know as far as liability? Do you know? I think there's some hospitals that won't do it because of liability, but I think we get carried away with liability.

I mean, what's best for a person? What's best to give people choices? Yeah, that's true, but all it takes is one $32 million lawsuit, like happened recently with a problem with a birth in another state. I was reading that story the other day, and it gets corporate lawyers pretty uptight. I can understand why they do. I don't think I want to go there because, you know, somebody getting $32 million,

and we're going to have mistakes, accidents are going to happen, people are going to make mistakes. We're all human. And to have that hospitals held so responsible for everything, I mean, the troubles that Santa are having with the water thing. And, you know, the lawyers all jump on, insurance companies jump in. And we're talking huge settlements. jurors need to look at when they award somebody $100 million, is that sustainable? And who's paying it is all of us? So we need to take care of people that have incidents or bad outcomes.

It is just part of it. Yeah, well, tort reform is another example of something which needs addressed. But, you know, a lot of people are lawyers in the state legislature. Those problems. those problems. Just don't get cured. And you do, you, you watch the bills. I mean, we had 2,600 bills in the long session. The whole transportation thing didn't even come to the last month. And no thought. I mean, that's going to get overturned. And the first thing the governor says, we're going to stop plowing snow, which you can't do. I mean, you got to take care of the problem.

Yeah, you can't do that. Former state senator Alan DeBore. Someone may have a question here. We're going to just grab that real quick. Hi, did you have a question for Senator, DeBoer, go ahead. Hi, Alan. This is John. You know, way back when Dr. Jones started the birthing center and then Dr. Stone, and we donated money to build it, too. But yesterday I was at the hospital to get a blood test, which I've been going there for 50 years to get a blood test. And normally they had two people out front and then four people in the little booze in the back. And it would, you'd take 15, 20, up to 30 minutes to get everything done. they don't have anybody out front anymore and there's one person in the booth instead of four so they cut

their staff down i had to wait an hour before anybody would even talk to me and another hour in line to get the thing done took me over two hours to get a simple blood test so they've just defunded and depopulated the staff there now for anything with surgery or blood tests or anything so they've just they've cut so far back it's just gross hmm I do all my blood work there and I have to say that people are excellent I'm usually in and out ten minutes according to the sounds of it John says there's almost no people left there though well the other thing is on the budget for hospital or any non-profit if you take out depreciation and some other things that aren't really a cash item

that any business person you want to have more money at the end of the month and you add it to start and if you don't you need to know why so depreciation is something that's not cost it's not it's for buying the next equipment yeah is that uh kind of a uh a paper loss of sorts yes exactly but it's not really a loss it's necessary because you have a business and you're wearing out your truck when your truck's worn out you should have a fund to buy a new truck. Yeah. All right.

Former State Senator DeBore, by the way, thank you for the call, John. Let me grab one more. Hi, good morning. Good morning. My question is, as a health practitioner, I've run into problems with Oregon Health Authority over and over and over again. And I just wonder, there seems to be no way to influence their decision-making or whatever. As health practitioners, we don't seem to have any input.

to what they're doing. So my question is, do you think the Oregon Health Authority we'd all be better off if it was abolished completely? Interesting question. Yeah, I don't think you can abolish it quickly. Leadership in the state, we need to tell people that are running the departments. We need to have them want to be there. In a lot of cases, we're filling positions. Nobody wants to be in because the control is so bad, and they aren't allowed to do it. Input from union, outside forces, senators, representatives, they all want to make more laws, and they make more rules, and that affects the leadership.

So you need leadership. I mean, even for Ashton, or Medford, Asante, to have somebody call them and say, hey, we're going to want to find you $450,000 because you didn't form this committee, didn't come to an agreement. That's exactly kind of the things that I'm talking about. Even into, to get our relicensing, we have to do DEI cultural competency. There's actually a film there with a Black Panther telling us how evil profits are. And you're saying, hey, if you're a hospital or any business, you need to make a profit or surplus.

That's how bad it is. I try to call that a surplus because nonprofits, that's a cross. Yeah, but it's a difference without a distinction. You know, it does, you have to have more left at the end of the month. Otherwise, you'll go out of business as a, you know, you won't be a going concern. But I'm with you, Tom. It's like, to me, OHA serves a purpose of getting in the way of actual health care right now. But I appreciate the call.

Senator, I really appreciate your take on it, too. So at this point, this is a done deal. There is going to be the change, as far as you know, and Asante will pay a penalty, a cash penalty for changing the status of Ashland Community Hospital. And is there anything else that you believe should be done at this point? Or could be? I don't think it's a done deal. Asante is going through a learning curve.

CEO hasn't been there all that long. They're looking for public input. They're looking for input from others. The biggest thing we can do as a voters is balance the state, do not allow a supermajority, period. So Democrats are going to have to vote for some Republicans. All right. Very good. Thank you, Senator.

Thank you. I appreciate the call. Former State Senator Alan DeBore. It's 738. It ran a little bit long, but it was well worth. He had to dig into that. This is the Bill of Meyer show. Silent Night. Have you ever asked, do you hear what I hear as your house is settling?

Millette Construction reminds you this holiday season. 680-5875. Call Cherise like I did or visit their showroom off Biddle Road in Metford, no wires now.com. Restrictions apply. Call for details. Internet and cell phone service not provided by Dish. Hi, this is Mark from Jay Austin and I'm on KMED. We have two former state senators in a row from State Senator Ellen DeBoer to former state senator Herman Barrett-Chigger on Tuesday. I'm pebble in your shoe Tuesday. How you doing, Herman? Weird day, huh?

I'm doing great. You know, it's always so nice to listen to Alan. He was such, he was fantastic to work with. I mean, he understands the issues. He takes a common sense approach to solving them, you know. I kind of miss working with Alan back in the day. I would imagine so, especially with who you had to work later. But anyway, but I digress.

You know, this challenge, this seems like the irresistible force. I'm speaking about when it comes to the health care debacle that Oregon is facing. It's irresistible force meets immovable object is what it feels like and that there is no good decision to be made other than trying to find what is maybe the less or the least bad decision to make about all this. It's breaking everybody. I mean, it's so, hell, and I'm not criticizing people in the health care position. It's just gotten so expensive. It's just breaking everybody. So, you know, we've got to figure out some way to fix it.

And, well, the point being those at the state, voters ended up voting for universal health care, a couple of years ago. Well, yeah, but that's, you know, people say free health care, freedom. Yeah. And I keep trying to insist that there is no such thing as free. And we're really in a pickle right now. I was mentioning that when you'll actually look at the state of Oregon overall, and Jackson and Josephine County, in Josephine County, only one out of four people are paying for their medical insurance and or medical care without government assistance. And in Jackson County, only one out of three. It's still, you know, a high level. And everyone else is either Oregon Health Plan or Medicare, and neither of those plans really pay the doctors and the hospital is what it cost to actually do a procedure, from what I understand, Herman.

Even Medicare's not free. If you want part, you know, part B or whatever, you know, you've got to pay for that out of your pocket. Oh, yeah. I'm not saying it's free, but what I'm saying is that, you know, way more money comes out. Way more money. One hospital visit will take all of your Medicare contributions for that year out. if you know what i'm getting at you know that kind of thing all it takes is one visit and then when you talk to your physician and and your physician says you know every medicare patient i take i

actually lose money i've got to have people that are off of medicare you know and i'm like how does this how why is everything so expensive well that also implies but that also implies though that the people who do have insurance or like as an example i have uh from my employer i pay a share of that, but the employer pays the bulk of it, we actually pay more for procedures so that Medicare and Medicaid, which is the Oregon Health Plan, pay less. Isn't that the mathematics of what we're dealing with right now? Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, I'm on Medicare, and then I pay my, you know, part B, I pay that's $200 and some. And then I have my other insurance, which is another almost $500, and that's good. I have good health care. I mean, it is good, but it's not

free. I'm paying every month. Yeah, I know, but if it was a private market, you'd probably be paying even more, I would imagine. If you were, if you, exactly. Yeah, that's what I'm getting at here. And I don't know, to me, this is the whole plan of Obamacare. I think this was the entire plan to overload it, collapse it, so then we have no choice but to go. just with the pure socialism model. And, you know, what that's going to mean? You're going to wait a year before your cancer surgery. It's what's going to happen.

Well, I also remember, you know, these other countries that have this social model and everything don't have the lawsuits that we do here in the United States. True. You know, and so that plays a role, too, Bill. That drives the price up some more. Yeah, I was reading that story back east, you know, one bad birth, $32 million from a jury. That's right.

So, anyways, that's how it is. You know, I was listening there to the commercial or the news on your commercial there, and I just wonder, you know, the funding, the FEMA funding is supposed to come back because of a federal judge, and I'm scratching my hair, and I'm going, how in the hell does a federal judge appropriate federal dollars? God. You ever get that impression that everybody's outside of their lane in government in one form or another? Right.

That's a legislative branch, an executive branch, not the judicial branch. Can't break. Okay. Well, let's shift away from the Medicare and Medicaid because, boy, we're not going to be able to fix that one in our 10 minutes together here. But let us talk about, and of course, everyone's talking about the confusion in the Josephine County Commission. Now, you were in the commission. understand the rules and how this works. And I don't think there's any confusion at all. We have a commissioner Ron Smith who's not choosing to be present. And so you have Chris Barnett,

who is the chair. And unless you have two, nothing happens. But, you know, we have Michael Sellers who is out under investigation by the state. So he's on paid administrative lead. And then you have he doesn't have a boat. So he's not even part of the equation. No, but I'm just talking about the actual operating bones of Josephine County, right? You know, he's, he's part of it. So he's out right now. Andreas Black resigned last week because he was going to be under recall. He doesn't need this. He doesn't need the hassle. So he's gone. So the point is, is that you have two remaining commissioners. And then the one commissioner, Ron Smith, says he doesn't want to, well, he doesn't want to do this. And it says it claims a conflict of interest, but it's not a conflict of interest

that actually matches what the state law is of conflict of interest. The fact that Democrats or Republicans may dislike you is not the conflict of interest I think he's thinking of. Is that a fair assessment of what's going on here? Oh, listen, you know, some people said, oh, Herman, you shouldn't say anything about Ron, talk about it because, you know, my name is in the hat. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't care.

He's never going to vote for me. You have people, I'm sure, it's an assumption, but I'm sure that recall people has told Ron, you better not vote for Herman. So, you know, I don't care. But listen, the statutes have a remedy bill. What's that? So if you, in 244.130 ORS, when met with an actual conflict of interest, announced public. the nature of the actual conflict, and if any public officials vote is necessary to meet a requirement of a minimum number of votes to take official action, that person be eligible

to vote, but may not have to participate as a public official in any discussion or debate on the issue out of which the actual conflict arises. Basically, what that says is state your conflict of interest, and if your vote is needed to take action, stay out of the discussion, but still vote. Interesting. So there is. Now, when you say you have to state your conflict, does that mean you state, hey, so-and-so threaten me with recall if I do this?

Is that the conflict? Is that what you'd have to do? I have no idea what conflict he is. No, I'm just engaging in conjecture, in conjecture. That's not, listen, that's not a conflict. When you are an elective official and you make public policy, people threaten you left and right, they lobby you, they're everything. I mean, they say all kinds and they're going to, you know. Well, it's saying to me, though, that the problem with being an elected official, though, is that this is not the same situation as what happened with.

with the recall, and you led the recall, or not the recall, I'm sorry, led the denial of quorum a number of years ago. It did it twice, right? That was nothing to do with that. That was over a proposed legislation, and it was a fight between the minority and the majority. Right. That is not this situation.

Yeah, this is not like this. And so I just want to make sure that people understand that it's not apples to apples in this case. No, this is not a legislative problem. This is a executive problem. what you are. You're an executive of the county. You're expected to make decisions. And that's why there's three commissioners, so there's never a tie, because if there's always a tie, nothing happens. So that's why there's three. And that's why it's so important to get back

to three so they can continue. Nobody's at the steering wheel of the county. What I don't understand is why are people praising this stance of, I will not vote in this and decide who's going to be the next county commissioner. There are people actually in Josephine County praising this. I'm thinking, you morons. But because they believe it's a tactic that they will get their person in. So if you look at the slate of people that have submitted their names, including myself, and I'm not treating my own horn, but just read the applications. There's only one person that has any government experience, legislative, executive, or anything. And, And they don't want that person.

They do not want me. Their eyes, if I get selected to be a temporary commissioner, their eyes are going to fall out of their heads, Bill. But that also means the rules will be followed, won't they? That's true. Yeah, that's true. And you have somebody that understands the process and has experience, and, you know, it's a very complicated job to know all of these laws, the working, of government, the dues, the don'ts, and all those things, and to get into office where all

three are new at this game, well, I think it's very dangerous and can lead to big problems. You know, I got a note from Simon Hare, another former county commissioner a couple of days ago, and he was mentioning that, no, he wasn't running. He did not put his hat in for this particular go-round. But one of the criteria that he brought up for actually voting for someone to go into as a temporary was that they had held elected office before. He thinks that as very important, and that this is not the time to have, you know, just people coming in. I'm just, you know, reading into what he was talking about, not the time to have a total rank amateur getting in there, I guess. Really, it's what we're talking about, isn't it, Herman?

You know, it's public meeting laws. It's how to run meetings, how government works, what you can do, what you can't. You've got to be very careful. You can't be running around, blabbing about personnel issues. I mean, there's things that you can't, you just, you don't do. I mean, there's some things you do an executive session because the statutes tell you you don't, and that's a fast way to get you into a lawsuit. So, anyway, there you have it.

That's what's going on in Joseph. County, Commissioner Smith has never said, but his conflict of interest is. And the statute is clear. It says, tell, you know, announce publicly the nature of your conflict. You can't just say, I have a conflict and then take a dive, right? And then I'm not going to. You can't say, you can't say I'm being threatened. Listen.

And well, frankly, if you are being threatened, go ahead and state the nature of this. I am being threatened by so-and-so. Okay. And what is the threat? If the threat is, oh, I'm going to recall you or, oh, I'm going to do this, you know, I'm going to write bad things about you in the newspaper or whatever. That's not, that's sorry. Now, if somebody says, you know, they're going to do bodily harm or something like that. Well, then call the sheriff's office, okay? You have to, yes, you know, you have to, the sheriff's officer, the state police, one of the other, that people can't do that, you know, I'm going to bomb your home or something like, but they can say, oh, I'm never going to vote for you, I'm going to recall you, I'm going to gather signatures against you. Those kind of threats is no way, any way to sustain from doing anything. You've got to do your job. You know, this is an executive problem. It's not a legislative problem. It's not a minority versus majority.

So what happens, Herman, your understanding of the rules, if this continues on, and then Ron Smith doesn't show up, Chris Barnett is not able to have quorum, so we can't conduct a meeting, can't conduct any business of some sort, and what happens if this continues on? Well, it's going to spill into the other elected officials is what's going to happen. Okay, so do you have an elected surveyor in Joe County? Yeah, so we got elected surveyor, elected assessor, the sheriff. Clerk's office. Clerk's office, we got four, okay. And we got the sheriff, let's see, am I missing anything? You know, I probably need a list.

I think that's about it. Oh, a treasurer. Oh, a treasurer. Okay, so there's five. There's five. So you need at least need three to make that decision. And then is there any situation that could actually have the governor's, force a choice?

Well, if all of that fails, of course, the governor can step in because, you know, the governor is the executive for the state. Oh, great. Great. A Tina Kotech commissioner. Wouldn't that be something, huh? Yeah. It's just like when a judge, you know, when a judge in a county resigns, and the governor

picks the next judge, you know. Okay. So it's just the way the statutes are. This is home. So when we talk about any other elected officials of the county, that's because of our home rule charter. That's not state statute. That's our charter.

Okay. So, but if our charter fails, then it'll kick it up to the next level, which would, unfortunately, I think, would be the governor. Oh, gee, I can imagine which Commissioner Tina Kotech would appoint, because the whole goal of a lot of what's been going on with Recall City has been to change the tenor of Josephine County politics. At least that's my observation of it or opinion of it. Yeah, and you've got to always remember that the other elected officials, you know,

they have their own ideas of how the county should run. So they're going to be looking for somebody that they think thinks a lot like they do. So, you know, it's just kind of interesting how this all, but at the end of the, I don't, I'm not going to say at the end of the day, I hate that. But the problem we have right now is there's no – there's no way to make any kind of decisions in Josephine County without Commissioner Smith attending the meeting, period. All right. Talking with former State Senator, former Josephine County Commissioner Herman Berchiger, and I think maybe a question here for you, Herman. Hi, you're on with Herman. Who's this? Welcome.

Well, actually, it's Mr. Outdoors, Bill. We've got a weather situation to discuss, so put me back on hold. Okay, I'll put you back on hold. All right. Herman, I think we've pretty much beaten this one for now, so we'll see what happens. Next Tuesday, the final show of the year, maybe we'll have a final, some finality to this, but not seeing any action or any movement at this point, huh? No, you know, I think there's a meeting scheduled today. I know Commissioner Barnett's trying to do whatever he can do being the chair,

and that's all he can do is schedule meetings. and if Commissioner Smith doesn't show up, then he has to just adjourn the meeting because he can make no action on any business or policies or anything. All right. Very good. Thanks, Armin. All right. We'll talk to you Tuesday.

See you later. All righty. And we'll have a conversation with Commissioner Barnett on Thursday's show. He agreed to come on, and maybe we'll kick this around more. All right. Mr. Outdoors, hang on right back with you. This is the Bill Maher show.