Bill O’Reilly’s No Spin News and Analysis - No Spin News - Weekend Edition - December 7, 2024

Episode Date: December 7, 2024

Listen to this week's No Spin News interviews with Ruben Navarette, Victor Davis Hanson, Simon Miles and Mick Mulvaney. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the No Spin News Weekend Edition. So joining us now from North Carolina is a guy who knows this deal probably better than anyone else in the country. His name is Mick Mulvaney. And he was the acting White House Chief of Staff from January 2nd, 2019, to March 31st, 2020, all right, six months before the election. actually eight months before. No, yeah, eight months before. He took over from John Kelly, who Trump did not have a good relationship with.

All right, you are now on News Nation. You formally analyze a new at CBS, and you are the head of Actum, a consulting firm. Do you sleep? Do you get any sleep at all? I mean, this is, you're busy than I have. Yeah, I also, I write columns for the Hill newspaper, the New York Post. No, I sleep on airplanes, Bill.

You know what that's like. Wow, I don't go on airplanes anymore because I'm afraid of Buttigieg. So I'm afraid. I don't go. I just laid it out how it's going down. Did I make any mistakes? No, in fact, I'm sitting here going, why does he need me? He's got it just about right down to the point about, you know, Donald Trump is his own chief of staff.

It's a very flat organization. It's the president and everybody else. But your robot Stephen Miller is spot on. Here's the only thing I could add to that for some color. Folks ask me, oh, my goodness, he's taking so many TV people. No, he's not. He's taking people who are good on television. Why is that?

You've just hit the nail on the head on how it's going to work in terms of getting the policy in place. Miller's going to pick up the phone. Maybe Mike Waltz calls down. The folks inside the White House will be setting the policy. The folks out of the agencies will be the implementers. And, and this is the critical part, the people selling it on television. Donald Trump likes people who are on TV. So Miller's going to pick up the phone and say, look, we're doing this on immigration.

Homan will be sitting with him there. And then Christy Noem will say, okay, and she'll go out on television and sell it. The same will be true. Sean Duffy at DOT, good on TV, Hegson, good on TV. Linda McMahon, really good on TV. So I think you're going to see this sort of this, this, this bifurcated leadership, whether it be somebody in the White House and somebody out in the, in the executive branch, and together they're going to be running the agencies.

Yeah, okay, so you know I'm a sympathetic on that. Now, you got along with Trump, from what I understand, as chief of staff, right? That's because I knew I wasn't the president, which I think some of my predecessors struggled with. All right, so let's talk about that. So Kelly, the general, didn't get along with Trump, and the allegation is that Kelly didn't go along with what Trump wanted, and there was strife there. Is that pretty much what happened? I think that's fair.

I think John, and he said this publicly, I'm talking about General Kelly now, saw himself as a check against the president. And I've got some fundamental disagreements with that. The check against the executive branch is the legislative branch and the judicial branch, not the chief of staff. I wasn't there to sort of double check Donald Trump or make sure he wasn't doing something that's not the job. The job is to try to make the president successful. Kelly never saw that. I lost a lot of respect for him when he decided that he was the adult in the room.

And I kept wanting to remind folks that no one voted for John Kelly. They voted for Donald Trump. No one voted for me. They voted for Donald Trump and Mike Pence. And that, Susie Wiles, I think, gets that. Susie Wiles, I don't know her. I've heard the same things about her that you have. I've talked to some former chiefs of staff who did meet her. We had a dinner last week. I was out of town and couldn't make it, and all the reports about her are absolutely solid, spot-on good, and that she understands that she's not the president, and that's a good first step of being the good chief of staff. Now, I know Donald Trump longer than probably most in public life. He's not a guy that you want to challenge as far as ego is concerned. So you've got

to be a special type of person. I could see Kelly Big Ego, General Kelly, and Trump Big Ego. And they're clashing, because Kelly thinks he's right, Trump thinks he's right. When you, and there has to be occasions, felt that President Trump was making a mistake, did you challenge him? Sure. Recognizing what you've just said is, again, correct, there's only room for one ego in that building, and it's the president. The chief of staff is not the chief of the president.

He's the chief of the staff. But yes, the president asked me one day, he goes, make, tell me. How do you summarize what you do around here? So, Mr. President, my job is to tell you the stuff that nobody else wants to tell you and to tell you the stuff you don't want to hear. I'm the only person in the building who gets paid to do exactly that. There's a reason, Bill, that the life expectancy of a chief of staff is relatively short. You know, Trump takes a lot of heat for having four chiefs of staff in his first term.

Coincidentally, by the way, that's exactly the same of that Barack Obama had in his first term, four chiefs of staff. It's a tough job when you are the only person to tell the president. stuff he doesn't want to hear. And yeah, I did it. I didn't see Kelly really do it in an effective manner. Reince tried. Reince was in a very difficult situation. I don't think that Mark Meadows did a very good job telling the president that. So I think Susie has the ability to do it, clearly. I mean, you can only imagine, Bill, and I'm sorry, it talks along. There were going to be some times on the campaign where things weren't going very well. And somebody had to walk in and tell the president, Mr. President, we need to look at this a little bit differently, maybe change

something up. And from everybody I've talked to said, that was Susie. And he listened to her. and she was effective at it. So that votes well for her. But now you made me mad because you got paid for telling the president stuff he didn't want to hear. I never got paid. I tell him stuff all the time he didn't want to hear. It depends what day it is, whether he's mad at me or not. And I'm going, why did I get paid for that?

Kelly and others say that Trump has fascist tendencies. I thought that was unfair because Kelly would never sit across me as you are. In a million years, the general wouldn't do it, because he knows that he'd be challenged roundly, and I don't think he's got the heft to stand up to my questioning, but I could be wrong. But I know he won't. Did you see any kind of fascism in play here, My Way or the Highway? I don't respect the process of the separation of powers. Did you see any of that?

No, not a single time, and I don't believe that John did either, because I believe that if John really had seen that, and that's what, that's what, oh my goodness gracious, this guy is a fascist, he wouldn't have stayed. He would never would have stayed. He would have said something dead. He would have justified by saying I'm trying to convince him not to be a fascist. You know, you know how they are. Yeah, but no, no, okay, but then you know what the next question is, why did you stay quiet for five and a half years and why did you come out 10 days before the election? That's a fair question to ask. Yes, sure. And I don't think he's got a good answer for that. Well, that's why he's not here. A final question for you. The press, and you didn't have to deal with the press directly, you had your own communication people, and that's what they did.

But now you remember the press with News Nation, and you know, you know, like that. There's only one other president in history, and believe me, I know about the presidents in history, that got this kind of vilification from the media, and that's Abraham Lincoln. And that was obvious why. I mean, it was fighting him a little war and the South wanted him dead and all that.

But the press has now adopted, and they obviously got creamed in the election, but adopted that Trump is a monster. There's nothing good about him. Is there a reason why that happened? Bill, the only way I actually, can describe it is that Trump derangement syndrome is real. There's, there's a bunch of people, a lot of them in the press, other in higher education, some on Wall Street that just are irrational

when it comes to Donald Trump. I mean, look at Mika Brazinski and Joe Scarborough, who called him Hitler for several months and then went down to Mar-a-Lago to kiss the rain. But what's the genesis of the hatred? So you could hate Bush, the younger, I mean, got us involved with Iraq and this total fiasco. go over there. Some did. But I've never seen the level of vitriol against any elected official, anyone. Even George Wallace, when George Wallace ran for president as a third in the third party, the hatred toward Wallace wasn't as bad as the hatred toward Trump. And the vilification of Nixon is this. Look, it's a good question. Let me see if I can give an answer that might not be

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Again, that's 866 3265576 or text bill to 998899. Power, politics and the people behind the headlines. I'm Miranda Devine, New York Post columnist and the host of the brand new new podcast, Podforce One. Every week I'll sit down. bound for candid conversations with Washington's most powerful disruptors, lawmakers, lawmakers, and even the president of the United States. These are the leaders shaping the future of America and the world. Listen to Podforce One with me, Miranda Devine, every week on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

or wherever you get your podcast. You don't want to miss an episode. I think the reason they hate it was that. won. They loved him when they thought he was going to lose. No one gave him more free airtime in 2017, 2016 than the left wing media. They just loved him. He was on Morning Joe on MSNBC almost every single day calling in. They loved him because they thought he was going to be a good Republican and lose. And the fact that he won and won in large part because of them. The earned media numbers, Bill, and you know what that means. Earned media in my business politics is,

and you go on TV and you don't have to pay for it. You get it for free. He over a billion dollars of earned media in 2016, and that is not all from right-leaning Fox News. More than half of it came from the left-wing outlets. So I think the reason they hate him is that he used them to win. That's a good answer. And they'll probably never forgive themselves for that.

That's a good answer, particularly Jeff Zucker, who was running CNN at the time, was his buddy from The Apprentice. He made them all look really bad and small. all. Mr. Mullaney, we really appreciate it. Mulvaney. You know, Malaney, Mulvaney, these Irish names, I just can't, I don't know why. I have a happy Thanksgiving. I've answered. I've answered a much worse. Now, you're a smart guy. I mean, I like watching you on News Nation because you don't give the predictable, well, we'll see. You know, you know what you're talking about. And that's

why I wanted to have you on today. And we appreciate it. Have a very happy Thanksgiving. You're listening to the NoSpin News Weekend Edition. All right, so summing up, Donald Trump's run in the country, even though he hasn't been inaugurated yet. And we'll give you the Biden stuff coming up. But first I want to bring in Dr. Simon Miles. He is an associate professor of public policy at Duke University, a very smart guy in foreign affairs.

He comes to us from Durham. So, doctor, anything I said that doesn't sit well with you? Well, Bill, I think I'm a little bit more cautious on Vladimir Putin's need for a deal. I understand what you're saying, but I think it's a little bit risky to assume that Vladimir Putin is going to make the best, the smartest decision, because the smartest decision for Vladimir Putin in this entire war would have been not to have started it in the first place in February of 2022. And so while you and I can lay out all the reasons why.

Vladimir Putin should come to the bargaining table, it depends a lot on Vladimir Putin getting the picture as well. And based on his comments, for example, about what's going on with the ruble, with interest rates, and with inflation in Russia, I'm not sure how persuaded he is. All right, but he wants to be friends with Trump. Would you see that? I think he likes to talk a big game and be sort of the international macher. But let's not forget that Vladimir Putin is basically a professional liar. Everything he says tends to be at least some percentage alive. Remember just a week before he invaded Ukraine when he was telling the world that it was totally ridiculous that anyone would ever suggest that the Russian Federation

would invade Ukraine. So, of course, he would like a transactionally better deal. The question I think is whether Donald Trump is going to give him all of the things which we know he's going to demand in exchange for any kind of improvement on the situation in the ground in Ukraine or in the U.S.-Russia relationship in general. Here's what I know about the framework of a proposed deal by the United States. And you're right. I mean, we don't know if some tyrant like Putin is going to accept it, but I will, I think that the pressure that he's under now domestically and Russia will.

grow, all right? And Putin can't even come outside. I'm sure you're aware of that, professor. He can't go in, he can't even walk out to Red Square. I mean, he has to be there. He never liked doing that. Oh, whether he likes it or not. He's always like to stay in hiding. They had to build tunnels all throughout Moscow, all right, so he can go underground and then get out to a place where he can take, you know, a special flight to his dock on the on the Black Sea, he can't go anywhere because they're afraid he's going to be assassinated. I mean, he's not in good shape with the Russian people. So that, he's a, he is a feral human

being, he's got a sense that he's in danger, physical danger of being killed. So the framework is, look, Vlad, ceasefire, you stay where you are in Ukraine. Ukrainians will stay where they are, and then down the road, the people will vote whether they want to go with you or stay in Ukraine. That's pretty much the framework. Now, Putin's not going to admit to any reparations and anything like that's pie in the sky. He's not going to do that. But I think given that, he would say to Trump, because if he doesn't, Trump's going to up the sanctions. You're going to make it more painful for Russia to operate. I think that he'll get the deal. last word. I think the challenge here is that you're envisioning and most people are envisioning

a land for peace deal. Vladimir Putin does not need more land, okay? He's got 11 times. No, I know, but he just wants out. He wants out now. It's a cover to get out. So he's not humiliated. As he said he wants out, this is the challenge to me. He said, what he has said is that he wants to fundamentally transform the Ukrainian state into basically being a Russian vassal. And I'm not really sure where he can really sell to the Russian people, of whom, as you rightly said, he does need to be aware of their opinions and their reactions to what's going on. So I think a land for peace type deal here, it's not clear to me that Vladimir Putin wants the land. What he's said all along that he wants is fundamentally to break the Ukrainian state.

But the risk of a deal is just putting pause on that. He's got to know it's not going to happen. And he'll be punished more economically, just like Iran, very similar. Okay, Professor, we really appreciate your point of view. Say hello to everybody at Duke for me. And thanks again for helping us out. This is the NoSpin News Weekend Edition. Okay, so joining us now as a guy who has lived in California,

probably since the gold rush. His name is Victor Davis Hansen. He's an esteemed scholar, Hoover Institution at Stanford University. He lives in a valley. Selma, I shouldn't even say that, but he's not a coastal elite. And he had a pretty good view. I think Mr. Hansen is the best columnist, better than me. And I read them every week.

He's also the author of the book, The End of Everything. All right, so let's talk a little California, into a little Democratic Party. So is California gone forever? Are the people out there just so ardently liberal, they just can't think about the welfare of their entire country? Or is it possible they may come back?

Well, they have to change. The way we got in this problem is that we lost 10 million of the old Pete Wilson, George Dismasian, Ronald Reagan voter over the last 30 years, who fled to Nevada, in Tennessee, Texas, Idaho. And then we had 11 million illegal aliens come in in that same period. So there was a 20 million person demographic shift. But what's happened, Bill, is the interior of the state

is where most of the 45% of the Hispanic population, who is the largest minority in the state, live. And they are now becoming middle class and they can't make it. They can't buy homes. They can't pay for gas. We have the highest gas taxes. We have the highest electricity rates. We're very high with our sales taxes.

We have a third of all the welfare recipients, and they are becoming very conservative. It's not all at once, but they've, Donald Trump flipped five counties in California from 2020, from blue to red. Some of them, like Fresno County, are very big. And so there's a movement. I don't think it's the beginning of the end, but it's the end of the beginning. We're just starting to see people cannot afford Gabman Newsom, Nancy Pelosi, the Diane Feinstein Barba Boxer, Jerry Brown. They can't afford it. But the coastal elites in Los Angeles, Los Angeles County, the biggest county in the country, San Francisco, half of San Diego.

I say in San Diego is a battlefield politically. Hey, I'm Caitlin Becker, the host of the New York Postcast, and I've got exactly what you need to start your weekdays. Every morning I'll bring you the stories that matter, plus the news people actually talk about, the juicy details in the world's politics, business, pop culture, and everything in between. It's what you want from the New York Post wrapped up in one snappy show. Ask your smart speaker to play the NY Postcast podcast, listen and subscribe on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Sean Spicer from the Sean Spicer Show podcast, reminding you to tune into my show. every day to get your daily dose inside the world of politics. President Trump and his team are shaking up Washington like never before,

and we're here to cover it from all sides, especially on the topics the mainstream media won't. So if you're a political junkie on a late lunch or getting ready for the drive home, new episodes of the Sean Spicer Show podcast drop at 2 p.m. East Coast every day. Make sure you tune in. You can find us at Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. But the Coastal release, the George Clooney's and the movie stars and the tech people, they just are so entrenched into this progressive life.

I don't think they're ever going to get out of it. And that's where the big money is, see? And that's where they have to change. Yeah, you're right about that. So from San Diego, basically, to Berkeley, you've got three things working. You've got, that's where our universities are, Stanford, UCLA, Berkeley. all there, and they're big, and there's a lot of them. They're very world-ranked some of them.

And then you've got $9 trillion of market capitalization in Silicon Valley. And then you've got the Bay Area left-wing political establishment. And that trifecta makes it very hard. But you're starting to see, it's not just the Elon Musk or Peter Till in Silicon Valley, you're starting to see people like Andreessen and Ben Horowitz, David Sacks. were left-wing people and said, these guys are lunatics, we won't be able to function and we're going to lose Silicon Valley to Austin or we're going to lose it to Research Triangle in North Carolina unless we straighten up.

And this state is our enemies. That's not our friends anymore. That's new. It's just beginning. And we have, we recall the mayor of San Francisco and of Oakland and the deal. So it's not, it's not something that's going to be happy. It's not going to happen overnight, but it's just the very beginning of something. I don't understand why it doesn't happen overnight when the average Californians paying more than $5 for gallon of gas.

I mean, it's so far ahead of everybody else. Here in New York, no conservative bastion. I'm paying three bucks a gallon for gas. Okay? I go to L.A., which I am going to do, I have to, in a few weeks. I'm going to pay five, all right? Yeah. Well, I think you'll, with all due respect, I think you'll pay $5.50. All right. Whatever. Popular uprising doesn't seem to be happening. And that's what I don't understand. But let me ask one specific question.

Yeah. So I have said that Kamala Harris is going to run for government. I think what's his name is up in two years. And he can't run again. Newsom. And I think Kamala Harris is going to run. Do you concur? She might run. I don't think she'll have a chance. She ran for Attorney General the first time and she almost lost. It took two weeks to count the votes and that was in a 70% left-wing state. She's not popular here. The Hispanic community is not fond of her.

We have one of the smallest black populations, only about 4% of the state is black now and the identity politics doesn't work so well. The main thing, Bill, is most of her money, that billion dollars and maybe the other billion in PAC money, actually came from California, from Silicon Valley and Hollywood. And they are furious at her because of the Oprah, Cardi B, Beyonce, spending, the private jets, the North County. And they're not going to give her any money. I hear that all the time from these people.

But who would challenge her? So a big name. Everybody knows her. ID is huge. still got the machine behind her. So who could challenge her for governor... Well, we don't have anybody, yeah, we don't have any. But there's a lot of assemblymen, senators in the state

that Los Angeles City Councilmen, they'll find somebody. But I don't think that her name... Yeah, I think she's going to have a Mike Dukakis from retirement, just obscurity. I really do. All right, I hope so, because she doesn't really bring anything to the table and never has. In my opinion, my home opinion. So let's go national now. I don't know if most people in the country,

people who watch you and me read our columns and watch the NOSPN News and all that, they know. They know what happened four weeks ago. Exactly four weeks ago. It was not only that Donald Trump won the election, but the Democratic Party was destroyed on a national basis. There's no leader for the Democratic Party now, none. So my question to you is,

how fast can they rebuild for the next election four years away? Yeah, I think they have to lose the midterms because they haven't got the message yet. They keep saying it was the messaging that they didn't present their case well enough. It wasn't every one of the issues that Donald Trump ran on, polled even higher than Donald Trump did, the border, the economy, crime, overseas, deterrence, trans issues, the D.I. Woke issues. They were losing across the board, and they haven't given that up. They keep thinking that, well, maybe if we had done just this much, or we had the Joe Rogan, that's not the problem. And this is despite 95% negative coverage of Donald Trump in the mainstream media, and they outraised him two and a half to one.

They had all the advantages, and yet somehow, as you said, he had this mandate, and it was much bigger. than actual the electoral college or the popular vote mandate because the issues were all on his side. And they polled overwhelmingly in his favor. And yet they don't seem to have gotten the message. And they always think they can have a fix, Bill. They always think, you know, maybe we can drain the strategic petroleum reserve or get Roe versus Wade, leak that memo out, or maybe we can cancel student loans as they did in the midterms. Or this time around, maybe we can get a new candidate.

or maybe we can promise this or that, but it's just they don't get it. Fundamentally, the middle class has spoken, they don't like them. There's nobody in charge. There's no power, no single power. I guess Schumer would be the most powerful guy, and he just wanders around Schumer. I mean, they got Shapiro, the governor of Pennsylvania, they got the guy in Kentucky who's a governor, pretty popular. They got some moderate Democrats that they can parade on out there.

But they are not progressives. And the progressives, the Soros money, the Hollywood money, Katzenberg, these people, they still control the party because they have all the money. No, they do. But you've got to remember who were the people who got rid of Joe Biden? They weren't, as you say, they weren't politicians, basically. They were the Obamas and the donor class. And Nancy Pelosi came in.

So they were, they represented, as you said, the progress. party who the people don't want anymore. And they have a lot of power because they had Hollywood, the Clooney's and the money, the Sorosos, the Silicon Valley money, and then they had Pelosi and the Obama's pulling the strings. But the price they paid for that is they haven't developed candidates of the Bill Clinton type that, you know, they can appeal to people. But it took them from McGovern to Bill Clinton, you know, we're about the same age. That was 20 years. it took them to get from McGovern to Bill Clinton. Right.

Well, if Trump is successful, that shoes in J.D. Vance, because that won't even be close. But you're right. It's a long game. Now, the final subject I want to talk to you about is, I think, and I wrote a column this week, that the American people saved the country. It wasn't Donald Trump, although he absolutely. to me, is an astounding example of somebody who just wouldn't give up and took everything they threw at him. And he has to go down in history, and he will, if I have anything to do with it, as a superb example of courage in the face of all of what he had to think. But it was really the folks that drove this election that most Americans said, enough.

We don't want this anymore. And I, you know, I wavered in 22, Professor, because the midterms did not go the Republican way. And I predicted there was going to be a red wave in 22, because I saw this progressive destruction very early on. But it didn't happen. But the last two years, there was almost something magical that happened in the country. Can you put your finger on it? Well, I think we'd had two years of disaster, but we hadn't had four years. So in this election, two years after, people thought, well, maybe this is so bad that border

will be closed or we can't go on with another Afghanistan pullout, so maybe that'll be the end of it. But it wasn't. And the other thing was that Donald Trump wasn't on the ballot, and you're right about him. a larger than life figure, everything they did to destroy and made him stronger. But the main thing about him is he's able to appeal and energize the middle class. He tells the middle class, don't disconnect, don't drop out, just because you don't want to watch Hollywood movies or you don't watch the Oscars anymore and you've given up, get back in and vote because we can take

the country back. And if you ask for a moment, maybe that iconic moment when he was at the McDonald's window and that Indian American fellow said, I'm just an ordinary person. And right off the bat, Trump said, you're not ordinary. You're not ordinary. No one's ordinary. I thought that was a really key moment that kind of exemplified his appeal. Absolutely, for a guy who was raised in wealth, and I wrote about that in the United States of Trump, he has got the common touch. Hey, Professor, we always enjoy talking to you. I hope you'll come back. Thank you. And again, Victor Davis-Hansson's columns, I get them on real clear politics, which runs them steadily.

So that's where you can get them. Very worth reading. You have a Merry Christmas, Professor. Thanks very much for helping us out. You're listening to the No Spin News Weekend Edition. Let's bring in our pal, Rubin and Everett, from Carlsbad, California, a syndicated column. Yes, you may have read his stuff, very good, very astute. And not many people know this, but after I love Fox News, 2017,

Ruben Everett was our first guest that we ever had on the No Spin News. And he's back. You look a little older, Ruben, but I'm aging in dog years. So, you know, that's just the way it goes. Where am I making my mistake? Phil, so good to be with you again, my friend. I think the place you're making your mistake is I'm often mistaken for a Republican. not just because I appear on Bill O'Reilly's show,

but because I believe in what Reagan said in the 1980s about taking responsibility for your actions. And I think that American employers, for instance, need to own up to the fact that we've become addicted to undocumented immigrant labor going on 30 years now, not just because we think it's cheaper than U.S. labor, but because it's more reliable. These people show up.

They don't flunk their drug tests. They actually don't sleep in. They show up on time and they work. And also the drug problem, as the President of Mexico correctly pointed out, We have an addiction problem. I have three kids who are teenagers, but since they were babies, I've had doctors prescribed pill after pill after pill after pill for them.

So many of these, and you've done shows about this, many of these pill mills, many of this addiction that we've bred in this country to take a pill and make it feel better. When I see these stories about people ODing on fentanyl, for instance, Bill, I see stories that read like this. A basketball team was celebrating a big win. They were doing cocaine, and oh, my goodness, it was laced with fentanyl. Well, you know, your granddad was a cop.

My dad was a cop, and I was growing up to not use cocaine, not use weed and drugs and pot. So I'm always mystified by how it is that when people use drugs, they shouldn't be using that ends up being laced with fentanyl, we want to blame Mexico. I'll say this, just my last point, we don't have, in 35 years of covering this issue, we don't just have an issue with bad laws and bad borders. We have an issue with bad parenting because as parents, we've not stepped up to the plate, put our kids to do these jobs that our immigrants are doing, and also tell them just don't do drugs. Okay. I don't disagree with your points, but I think that they are a little bit naive. So point number one, Congress absolutely has to make a new immigration law. They call it comprehensive. That's a bunch of both. And the new immigration law has to give out more green cards, more working permits to migrants who want to work legally.

That has to happen. Whether Donald Trump gets behind it or not, I don't know. But in conjunction with sealing off the chaos, that has to happen. That's number one. Number two, the United States of America is responsible for people using narcotics. Yet nobody will deal with the problem because, oh, it's a disease and you've got to feel sorry for them, all of that kind of stuff. And you're not going to change that, Rubin. You're not. If it were me, I would have involuntary.

That means you would force the criminal drug addicts convicted of a crime. You either go to jail or you go to rehab for a year, a year and a half, like they did in Singapore. And Singapore has no drug problem. And I did my thesis at Harvard on that. I went to Singapore. And I saw with my own eyes that when you isolate the market, you take it away. There's no market, and particularly if you're punishing drug dealers.

But right now, we're an emergency situation. You would agree with that, right? 14 million foreign nationals unattended in this country, 275 pounds of narcotics being seized. We're in a crisis situation. Got to stop the crisis, right? I agree. We've got to stop the crisis.

We also got to think about how we got here so we don't get into another crisis. Well, I don't mind about that. That was Kamala Harris who was going to get to the root cause, okay? She did a bang-up job there. She didn't do that. Exactly. Very, very brilliant woman. But you've got to stop the bleeding before you can go to the healing. And you've got to stop the bleeding is, hey, look, President Shinebaum, you're going to do what we tell you to do, or we're going to punish you. And we're going to punish you hard. Yeah, that's not going to work, Bill. Here's why. No, here's not, here's why that's not going to work. If you quote, break Mexico, if we go down to Mexico and pull a John Wayne, we're going to push ourselves around down there, the end result is you're going to have, again, as you said, a Mexican depression. What happens when the Mexican economy goes south, many more Mexicans come up to the north? Not they're not going to be able to come up. Because they're going to seal

it out. You can seal that border down. No, no. We've had this conversation, my friend, for over 20 years. There's difference between sealing the border and securing the border. I'm with you that you should secure the border. You're never going to seal a 2,000 mile border. You put the U.S. military on the border, you can. And you will. And Trump will do it. Okay. He'll say national security. You'll put the military right on that border. You're not to put the military underground because there are tunnels that go underground. Well, there'll be some that get through. But it'll be, and if you do it in conjunction with the people smugglers and you wipe out the cartels,

as they did with ISIS, if you're re-killing the killers, I methodically went over how Obama and Trump did it step by step. And you could do the same thing with the car. It's easier to do it with the cartels because everybody knows where they are. With ISIS and al-Qaeda, it was hard to find them. It's not hard to find the cartels. They're partying and up in Alcapulco. You can get them. They live in giant, lavish mansions that can be cinder in 15 minutes.

So anyway, I am a very, very aggressive person on this issue. I don't believe that Mexico is looking out for America at all, Rubin, at all in any way. They're not looking out for America. And unless they change, we got to punish them. Last word. I agree with you. They're not looking out for America. I'm looking out for Mexico, just as we look out for America.

You're right. They need that $50 billion a year that Mexicans send up to the United States. It's clear they're out for themselves. But ultimately, they do us a lot of good as well by providing intel, a trade that goes back and forth. Over 100,000 people come from San Diego into Mexico every day to go to work and back and forth. So this is not a divorce we can afford. have. We do have a friend and ally down there. And by the way, if you want to know what's like to have a hostile power on your border, talk to Israel or Ukraine about that. We don't need it.

All right, Rubin. Always great to debate with you. You have a Merry Christmas. Really appreciate your time today. Thank you for listening to the NoSpin News Weekend Edition. To watch the full episodes of the NoSpin News, visit Bill O'Reilly.com and sign up to become a premium or concierge member. That's Bill O'Reilly. Sign up and start watching today.