Bill O’Reilly’s No Spin News and Analysis - No Spin News - Weekend Edition - November 4, 2023

Episode Date: November 4, 2023

Listen to this week's No Spin News interview with Philosophy Prof. Daniel Bonevac, Former U.S. attorney Brett Tolman, and Cornell Law Professor William Jacobson. We also visit the No Spin News archives and Bill's conversation with Paul Manafort, author of 'Political Prisoner.' Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the No Spin News Weekend Edition. Now, the underpitting of Halloween is spirits floating around, okay? And killing the witches, my latest bestseller, were very, very happy with the way it's performing, almost 200,000 copies sold in five weeks. The witches were executed because they were consorting. with the devil. The witches were consorting with the devil. That's why they were hanged. No witches burned in New World, in Massachusetts Bay. They were burned in Europe. We explain all that. Today, there is demonic possession in the Roman Catholic Church. And we get into that in the latter

part of killing the witches. It's called exorcism. Well, this is a great Halloween book. Anyway, in order to delve into this area of witchcraft, spirits, devil, you have to believe in Satan. And then Satan lives in hell, so you would have to believe it. Now, I'm not sure there have been surveys. Most people in America describe themselves as Christian. And in a Christian theology, there is a hell. And there is Satan. And if you read the New Testament, Satan came before Jesus and tempted him.

And there are a myriad of passages in the Old Testament for the Jews and the New Testament for the Christians about if you misbehave on a grand scale, you're going to hell. And there's fire there. Now, is that an allegory? Do you believe it? So I looked around and got the best guy to talk about that. this, and his name is Daniel Bonnevec. He is a professor of philosophy at the University of Texas at Austin, Ph.D. So, Doctor, do you believe in hell? Yes, I do. And why do you?

But partly, I am believing Christian, and so I think there is such a thing as God. There is such a thing as angels. And in particular, there is a devil. is hell. Now, if you look at the Bible and try to understand more about all of this, I think it's a bit the way Thomas Aquinas describes our understanding of God. He says we can know that God is, but not really what God is. We can't understand the essence of God. And I find something similar when I look at biblical texts about hell and about the devil. For example, in the Old Testament, in the book of Job, Satan plays a very large role, and Zechariah makes a lot of references to Satan,

but always in the role of the opponent, the adversary, the opposite in some sense of God. But what exactly is this being? There isn't much really said. Now, there's much more discussion of the devil in the New Testament. It all comes down, Professor, it all comes down to what you want to believe. So I'm a Roman Catholic, and I want to believe in a just God. And I want to believe that after you die, you're judged on whether you are a good or bad human being by a just all-knowing God.

And then if you're a good human being, you're rewarded. If you're not, you suffer. That's what I want to believe. But I can't prove any of it. So then it becomes a little bit dicey, discussing it with non-believers, right? How do you approach that? Right. It is difficult. The argument you're describing, I think, is a very powerful argument, actually.

In fact, Emmanuel Kant thought that morality and thinking about good and evil or right and wrong or justice and injustice makes no sense, unless there is a God, and unless there is some reward and some punishment at the end. Because otherwise, he had the same thought that you've had. Really, it would turn out that the universe isn't just then. Why should we pay any attention to morality at all? Why should we try to live a good life if in the end it doesn't do any good? Within the bounds of this life, we know that the good suffer. And all too often, the unjust managed to thrive.

And so he says, none of it makes any sense, whatever, unless in the end, the scales balance somehow. There's a balance, right. And that's a trend in the United States now. I wrote a columnist weekend called Writing Wrongs, that the Progressive Left, which contains a large number of atheists and agnostics, then I don't want any judgments. And a lot of Americans reject religion because judgments are made, not a lot of Americans reject religion, because judgments are made, not in the Unitarians, there are religions that don't judge at all,

but in the traditional religions, there's judgments. And they don't want to be judged. They don't want to be constrained. Whatever they want to do, they want to do, and they don't want to be held responsible for it. But in the end, we're all just guessing, right, Doc? Absolutely. We're guessing.

And even if you believe literally in the words of the Bible, you have to admit it's pretty unclear exactly what the devil is, even whether it is just a sort of abstract name for the kind of evils that lurk within our hearts and tempt us. There are passages that suggest that, in fact, some passages that talk about devils and demons and so on. And so that's a possible interpretation. I don't think it's absolutely ruled out, even if you accept everything in the Bible. But yes, I mean, there's something about the scientific attitude that's common today that suggests that, look, there's something weird about postulating something supernatural. I find myself drawn more and more to the idea, however, partly because of the extraordinary evils I see around me. I understand moral corruption. I understand giving in to temptation.

I don't really understand the kind of thing we saw on October 7th. No, and the Third Reich and Stalin and Mao and the mass murders and all that. The one thing that I have in killing the witches that I hope everyone reads is the passage about this 13-year-old boy in Maryland who was the real subject of the movie and book The Exorcist. Ronald Hunkler is his name. We researched that professor. you could not have done more research than Martin Dugard and I did on it.

And if all of those people are lying about Hunkler's condition, we're talking psychiatrists, medical doctors, family members, everything was written down, the eight exorcists out of St. Louis that dealt with the boy for three months. I mean, when you read that, you can reject it, and many, many people will. But boy, that was one, because I'm a logical thinker, Aquinas, not in his league, by the way, but kind of that way. I went, whoa, you know, this is almost overwhelming here. Hey, doctor, thanks very much. We appreciate it very much. And if we can

ever return a favor, you let us know. Let's face it, the U.S. economy is under stress. National debt rising, trade war, shaking the markets. And meanwhile, China is dumping the dollar and stockpiling gold. That's why I protected my savings with physical gold and silver through the only dealer I trust, American Hartford Gold. And you can do this. Get precious metals delivered to your door or place in a tax advantage, gold IRA. They'll even help you roll over your existing IRA or 401K, tax and penalty free.

With billions in precious metals delivered thousands of. the five-star reviews, and an A-plus from the Better Business Bureau. You can trust American Hartford Gold as I do. Please call 866-326-55-7576 or text Bill to 99-88-99. Again, that's 866-3-2-6-5576, or text bill to 998899. Power, politics, and the people behind. the headlines. I'm Miranda Devine, New York Post columnist and the host of the brand new podcast, Podforce One. Every week I'll sit down for candid conversations with Washington's most powerful

disruptors, lawmakers, newsmakers and even the president of the United States. These are the leaders shaping the future of America and the world. Listen to Podforce One with me, Miranda Devine, Every week on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast, you don't want to miss an episode. You're listening to the No Spin News Weekend Edition. So, you know, Senator Chuck Grassley, he's been there since the Civil War, Nebraska guy, Iowa guy, I'm sorry, we get that wrong, I don't know why. So Grassley has been in, Senator a long time, Iowa. and he is concerned about the FBI not investigating Hunter and Joe Biden. So he writes eight days ago a letter to President Biden.

Here is a portion of the letter, quote. Based on the information provided my office over a period of years by multiple credible whistleblowers, there appears to be an effort within the Justice Department and FBI is shut down investigative activity relating to the Biden family. Such decisions point to significant political bias, infecting the decision-making of not only the Attorney General and the FBI director, but also line agents and prosecutors. A Republican cannot survive such a political infection, and you have an obligation to this country to clear the air. That's to President Biden. Okay.

Of course, Biden did not reply to it because Biden is not clear in anything, because if he does, he could be in very serious trouble, which he will be anyway. Eventually, they're going to get to this. You know that. Anyway, I read you that because I wanted to talk with one of our top guests, Brett Tomlin, former prosecutor, a federal prosecutor, about the FBI. So let's do away with all, bring them on in. Let's do away with all the FBI agents aren't at fault because we all know that, all right? And we don't have to say that's been said way too many times.

You watch Christopher Ray, all right, and you worked in that Justice Department. Is this a guy that inspires confidence to you? Bill, thanks for having me on. Not only did I work in the Department of Justice, I was in the Department of Justice the same time as Chris Ray and worked with him on several different DOJ committees. And I'll tell you, you know, you summarized what I think the American people really need to know about Chris Ray. And that is he will not be a man of courage. And right now, this country in the

Department of Justice needs men and women of courage that are willing to say, we will investigate, we don't care about your politics, we're not going to try to cover for anyone. The same guy that would authorize these ridiculous investigations into Donald Trump, when it should be a civil matter that's handling some of the disputes is refusing to pursue what is clear, clear racketeering behavior, money laundering, bribe, movement of money to avoid detection. We now know the sourcing investigative investigation was done. They actually connected the dots. Now we know they had to do quite a bit to avoid holding the Biden family accountable. So they got the information from various people, and then they, what they call, dumped it. They wouldn't pursue it. They said it was Russian

disinformation, whatever excuse, they wouldn't aggressively do it. Now, what I don't understand is this. Comey was a disaster, right? The former FBI chief, it was a disaster, and all his lieutenants were ridiculous, very partisan, democratic people. And then Trump comes in and he appoints Ray. Now, I don't know. Maybe Ray was Elliot Ness at one time, and then all of a sudden he lost it? I don't know. But Trump appointed Ray, right? Well, that's right. You know, the Trump ignorance on Ray and on, you know, who he could trust or who he should listen to really is turning into be, you know, maybe his largest mistake as a president. It was apparent way back then. that Chris Ray was not the candidate that was going to exercise, you know,

independence and courage and be a force in that. How was that apparent? Let me stop. Let's get specific. How was that apparent? Because I didn't know. When Trump said, I'm going to give the job to Chris Ray, I wasn't here going, what?

I didn't know. How was it apparent to you? It was apparent to me having worked. There are certain cross-section of individuals that are born and bred in Washington, D.C., they are they are angling for appointment positions when an administration comes in that's not their party they stay in D.C. They wait it out. Then they push for a position back when the new administration comes. It's this revolving door.

It's happening all the time. You wouldn't know that if you're Donald Trump and you're jumping into Washington, D.C. He really would have had to have listened to some folks that said, hey, let's bring in an outsider that has law enforcement credentials, has worked it, you know, with the FBI or has the chops to come in here that you actually might have some confidence in. I wouldn't put someone in that position

that I didn't know. I would have to know that individual and their background and know that, you know, there's someone that I could trust. The amount of advice that he has to give to the president is substantial. Here's the ultimate irony.

Chris Christie wanted that job. And remember, Christy was a big Trump supporter in the beginning. And Trump didn't give it to him. And I don't know why. Okay? Now Christy hates Trump more than anybody. And I know it's because he didn't get that Attorney General job. So it is the swamp was not drained by Donald Trump.

Let's be honest. It wasn't drained. I mean, maybe he tried. I don't know how hard. He had a lot of other things to deal with, which he did a good job. on the economy being number one, and then you had COVID. So I'm not, you know, I'm not unreasonable here. But let's get back to the FBI.

Traditional conservative Americans have no trust in the Bureau. None. When a guy like Ray can get up and ask a direct question, would it be better for the FBI if the border were responsibly policed, then he won't answer the question? You know it's all over. I mean, when I see that, I go, if politics comes before public safety.

That's the bottom line on this, isn't it? Politics comes before public safety. What an outrageous moment. I'm glad you highlighted it because if there was ever a question that was simple to answer, it would be that it is unbelievably more difficult if the border is not secure. I mean, you need someone, you need someone like John Ratcliffe, the former Director of National Intelligence, who was a U.S. attorney, to be in that position that says,

that doesn't care about politics and wants to say, guess what? Majorcas, you need to secure the border. It's not secure. We have pockets of terrorists that we already know are in this country. What about all the ones we don't know? And not only that, but the FBI does narcotics work. And the FBI knows that most of the crime in this country is generated by drug addicts. And now the drug addicts have more product cheaper on the streets than at any other time in the history of this country.

country because of the open border. So you got a two-fer. You got foreign threats that people coming across. And then you got hundreds of thousands of Americans killing themselves with the drugs that are unimpeded coming across the border. And then you got Ray going on. You can ask Mayorkas. It's pretty depressing. Tommy, you got to get back in the game, man. I want you to be FBI director. Are you like, can we make that happen somehow? I'm down. Let's do it.

Yeah, but you're out there in Utah. You're on the slopes. You know, you're waving everybody. Come on, you got to get back in the game. We've got to get you in there. We appreciate it, Brett. Thanks very much. We'll talk soon.

Hey, it's Sean Spicer from the Sean Spicer Show podcast. Reminding you to tune into my show every day to get your daily dose inside the world of politics. President Trump and his team are shaking up Washington's, like never before, and we're here to cover it from all size, especially on the topics the mainstream media won't. So if you're a political junkie on a late lunch or getting ready for the drive home, new episodes of the Sean Spicer Show podcast drop at 2 p.m. East Coast every day. Make sure you tune in. You can find us at Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Caitlin Becker, the host of the New York Postcast, and I've got exactly

what you need to start your weekdays. Every morning, I'll bring you the stories that matter, plus the news people actually talk about the juicy details in the world's of politics, business, pop culture, and everything in between. It's what you want from the New York Post wrapped up in one snappy show. Ask your smart speaker to play the NY Postcast podcast. Listen and subscribe on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the NoSpin News Weekend Edition. So there is a Cornell professor of history, Russell, Rick Ford. Here's what he said. For the first time in years, it was exhilarating.

It was exhilarating. It was energizing. And if they weren't exhilarated by this challenge to the monopoly of violence, by this shifting of the balance of power, then they would not be human. I was exhilarated. So he's exhilarated by Hamas slaughtering more than a thousand Israelis. So Rickford is suspended. It says voluntary suspension. I don't think we're going to be seeing him again at Cornell, but you never know.

So I wanted to find out what the deuce is going on up there. Joining us from Providence, Rhode Island is a Cornell University law professor. I'm still active in the university. William Jacobson. What I need to know, you've been there 16 years, according to the research, but we have. It wasn't always this way at Cornell, was it? No, there's no question it has gotten worse in the 16 years that I've been there. And you saw this steadily rising over the years.

You've seen over the years four boycott resolutions introduced to student government. You've seen a group called Students for Justice in Palestine, which is actually not for justice. it's for the destruction of Israel, get more and more aggressive on campuses. You've seen faculty get more extreme in their rhetoric against Israel. So, no, it's not always been this bad. I'd say it has been escalating and it got to this point, but it's worse now than it's ever been. Who's behind the escalation? Is it the college president?

Who's doing this? I'm not sure there's one person behind what's happening at Cornell. I think it's a combination of factors. One, it's a national movement against Israel. So you can look at the boycott, divestment, and sanctions movement. You could look at the national students for justice and Palestine movement, who, by the way, on their protest posters against Israel, have put the paragliders that were used to attack the, you know, the music festival where 270 people were killed. Some of their branches did that.

So it's a combination of things. It's also a combination of faculty. So it's certainly not the president of Cornell who's instigating this, but I do think that the Cornell administration has made things worse by their heavy push on what's called diversity, equity, and inclusion, which really leaves Jews on the sidelines. So everything is now viewed through a racial focus. and the anti-Israel students and faculty use that against Israel and use that against Jewish students. So I'd say it's more a sign of the times made worse by administration policies.

I don't think the administration consciously wants this to happen. All right. I don't know about that because I'm not there. I can speak to a few colleges that I know about because I attended them. But I want to just want, Cornell, before all this happened, was woke. You had a bunch of incidents there where students were accused of stuff, denied due process. As you pointed out, almost everything is diversity and inclusion and all of this very, very far left stuff. The president has to know what's happening. The board of directors of Cornell have to know what's happening.

And the alumni has to know. It was not a secret that this deterioration of due process, of sane thought, there were, have been conservative speakers shouted down at Cornell. You know all this professor, correct? I'm not miscategorizing him, am I? No, you're actually not. You're spot on there. This has been a problem.

I've been speaking out against it. Most people on campus are afraid to speak out against it. Yeah, they're afraid. They'll get canceled. So I went to Maris College just down to Hudson River from Cornell. You know Maris, right? Yeah. Okay.

So it was once a working class school. that didn't really, even during a Vietnam War, there were big demonstrations, but it wasn't crazy left. There were crazy students, but the administration kept it calm. In the last 10 years, they have hired presidents of the school that have been ardent leftists and replaced traditional board members with radical leftists. So the board of Maris College is radical left, and the administration, because they hire their own professor, that's how it goes. You get somebody at the top, you get a board of directors, and they're hiring people who echo what they believe. Am I wrong?

Yeah, I think you're right in many colleges. I'm a big critic of Cornell. I've been a vocal critic of what's been happening. I would term it more negligence as opposed to anything else. I don't think the president, while I've been a critic of hers, is a radical. I think she's more a corporatist, and it's easier to go along. But she's a coward. She's a coward, like the president of Harvard.

They're cowards, and the president of Maris College, the same thing. They're not going to stand up against this insane movement that justifies murder. If you won't stand up against that, you're not going to stand up against anything. I'll give you the last word. Yeah. So I think this is a reflection of the decline of American universities, the particular decline of so-called elite universities, the radicalization of the faculty. A lot of this stuff is faculty driven. You just showed a clip of a faculty member standing up there saying he was exhilarated by the Hamas attack. I know. And I don't think he's coming back to Cornell because that would really, really be a black mark. And I think some of the alumni of Cornell are going to pay. packet any way as far as donations. Professor, good luck to you. We appreciate your candor.

Thanks for coming on. Here's the gem from the No Spin News Vault. Remember a guy named Paul Manafort? Yeah, you do. If you follow politics, he was President Trump's campaign chairman, appointed to that position in May 2016. He's a big guy in a Trump campaign. and then almost simultaneously for him taking over as a campaign chairman for Trump, the Fed's starting to investigate him on a variety of financial matters. On July 26, 2017, FBI agents raided Paul Manafort's home without warning.

They just showed up looking for documents. Now, Trump had warning Mr. Manafort did not, and they went in. and he was subsequently charged with a number of felonies. He pled guilty to a couple of them, and the other charges were dropped after he did that. He was sentenced to seven years in a federal penitentiary. He served one year, two months, and he has a new book. And the book is called Political Prisoner, Persecuted, Prosecuted, But Not Silence, Paul Manafort joins us now from New York.

Did I set you up properly, fairly? You said be up properly and fairly. Okay. And I'm used to be it set up. We want to be fair above all. So the lead question is, and I have not read your book, as I told you before we went on the air, I looked it over, but I haven't read the whole thing.

If you pleaded guilty to federal charges, do you have a beef? Yes, because the part of the story you referenced is the end of the legal process, not the beginning of the legal process. What I pled guilty was I had two trials, two indictments. One was in Virginia and one was in D.C. The one in D.C. was the first one. It dealt with the fair violations that they said were of a criminal nature. They then brought, when they couldn't use those charges to get me to do a plea agreement

and talk about Donald Trump in a way that would implicate the president in the Russian collusion narrative, they brought superseding charges to me. And those were filed in Virginia because they were dealt with tax matters. Okay, let me stop you there. So it was clear to you, do the FBI tell you, we want you to flip on Donald Trump, tell us that he colluded with Russians, and if you do that, we'll drop all the charges, or you won't be bothered by us anymore. Was that clear to you? Well, there was no commitment to drop all charges. No. But the process was focused on leniency. And the plea agreement didn't happen until after the first trial was over. Okay. I don't want to get two in the weeds on this. So you would promise leniency if you gave up Trump on certain things involving Russian collusion. In hindsight, did you do anything wrong in your opinion? Just in general. in general the answer is no and all the charges that were brought against me for the most part were all issues that the government had dealt with in the past and either resolved or dismissed

okay so you believe that you are a victim of political prosecution because you were linked to Trump you wouldn't give Trump up and so that they basically went ahead to try to punish you for your silence but then again you come back to why did you plead guilty why didn't you just go to a jury well the first case i did i went to a jury there was a four in the dc case but not in second in the virginia case was first and i mean just even though it was filed in superseding charges it ended up being the first gag okay but what why didn't you why didn't you just play the whole string out with the jury well i did in the first in the virginia case and the when i was convicted of eight of the 18 charges uh and uh and then two weeks later the

virginia case was uh was going to be happening and i mean the dc case was going to be happening and that case the jury was was going to be selected within the framework of the of the first trial i voir dire the jury we had 120 questionnaires in those 120 questionnaires we found one juror who said they wouldn't be uh they weren't prejudiced against trump so you didn't think you would win the case you and your lawyers i knew i wouldn't win how much did it cost you out of your pocket mr manor ford to defend yourself against all of this stuff millions of dollars millions of dollars was that a concern that you didn't want to continue this because you well there were three concerns just why i didn't want to continue one of them was the cost of

another trial. Two was in that second trial, they had forfeiture actions they were trying to bring against me, because going back 20 years on a violation that occurred, they claimed in 2013. I knew that didn't feel confident after the voir dire that I was had any chance of getting a fair trial. The judge rejected giving me a venue change. And in the assets they wanted to take were assets I'd given to my daughters and family, you know, 10, 15 years before. So they were trying to not just destroy me, but my family. When you say they, was this the Justice Department? The Justice Department, Special Counsel. So. And who was the Attorney General at that time? Well, it was, he was not in the man in a man at all. This was Bob Mueller, special counsel's

office, Andrew Weissman. They were in charge. So Mueller and Weissman, the guys, investigated the Russian collusion. They were responsible for all of the charges against you and to use your word in your book, persecute you, correct? Correct. Okay. When the raid in Ma Alago happened last week, was it similar, in your opinion, to what you went through? Yes, it was. For example, I had been cooperating with the intelligence committees and all the information they were asking for during the Russian collusion investigation. Two days after I met with the two committees,

they did this no-knock 6 a.m. raid on my condominium, you know, 15 FBI agents, guns drawn in my apartment, knocking on my door of my bedroom, waking me up. There was no reason for that overreach. Was the media there? I don't remember. Was the media tipped on? I know CNN was tipped off on one of these.

There's a difference between Stone and me was Roger lived in a home. So they were walking down the street. They would have had a hard time there walking down the hall. So the FBI shows up that shows you, they show you the warrant. You look at the warrant and they come in and they ransack your house. Is that what happened? Yes. All right.

Now, you do believe that you are a political prisoner because of your work on behalf of Donald Trump. That's what basically your book is about, right? Well, and in the book, I specify very clearly, the fair charge, that was the foundation charge of against me, I had resolved with the Department of Justice Fair Unit. Okay, and everybody will see what you, but what I'm trying to get out here is there are people, millions of them, who feel that we have lost our fairness in this country, that we are no longer equal justice for all, that now the federal government is taking aside the Democratic Party side, the liberal side, and persecuting the conservative side. Do you believe that?

I believe that there's a two-tiered system of justice, yes. Do you believe that the Donald Trump situation from the very get-go, and you were involved with it from the beginning, as was I did the first interview with him when, after he declared his candidacy, do you believe that there was a conspiracy to destroy him, and if so, why? I believe he was a threat to the establishment, the deep state, if some people call it. And I believe that that threat was something that they couldn't deal with. I believe that they never expected him to win. But when he did win, they didn't understand it at all.

and they never recognized in his election did everything they could to destroy his presidency, including... Okay. After what happened to you, and you have been through hell for six years, do you still believe in your country? Do you still want to live here? Do you still feel that this is a noble nation? I've done campaigns all over the world. There's no doubt in my mind. This is still the best country in the world. Our democracy is still the best democracy. The fact that it's under attack is not to lose face. in it, but it's to try and fix it. And that's why you wrote the book. Again, it's political prisoner, persecuted,

and not silenced, but not silence. Paul Manafort. We appreciate it, Mr. Manafort. We'll talk again. I think you have a good perspective on the government and what it can do. Certainly you felt that stink. We appreciate you coming on tonight.

Thank you for listening to the NoSpin News Weekend Edition. To watch the full episodes of the no-spin news, visit Bill O'Reilly.com and sign up to become a premium or concierge member. That's Bill O'Reilly.com. Signate.