Bill O’Reilly’s No Spin News and Analysis - Shock and Awe - A Killing the Legends Special

Episode Date: September 14, 2023

In this ‘Shock and Awe’ special, Bill discusses his struggles with fame and how fame affected the lives of Elvis Presley, John Lennon, and Muhammad Ali. See why Bill's books like 'Killing the Legends' are #1 bestsellers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So I have a book out this week called Killing the Legends, The Lethal Danger of Celebrity. If you follow the killing history books, this is a little bit of a departure because it's cultural history. We are living it now. And the reason I wrote this book is because of the intimacy of Elvis Presley, John Lennon, Muhammad Ali, those three individuals, beginning in the mid-50s, and extending into the 70s, all three of those individuals influenced our lives today, what they did. And so I decided to take a look back, a historical perspective,

and find out why all three of them got crushed. And there is a common threat, and something that happened to all three of them. Now, celebrity is not a number. natural state. In America, it's a sport. It's like football or baseball. If you become famous, people then weigh in on your life. Some of those people are malevolent. They want to hurt you. In fact, when celebrities fall, a lot of people are happy. It's a psychological disorder to take joy out of somebody's misery, but you know, I know what happens.

The celebrities themselves, going all the way back to when motion pictures first came up, very few of them were equipped to handle their fame. And the list is Legion. I mean, I'm Marilyn Monroe. You got all the rockers who died very young. Janice Joplin, Jimmy Hendricks, Michael Jackson, Prince, River Phoenix. I mean, it is an endless list of people, James Dean in the 50s, who couldn't handle it, because it's unnatural. You can't be prepared for it.

It is nothing to prepare you for it. Now, that's why I wrote about this. When I was a little kid, I wanted to be famous. I wanted to be a baseball player. I want to be just like Willie Mays, the greatest player that I ever saw. But I wasn't good enough to be a baseball player, but I figured maybe I'd get, into television news and maybe I become famous in some city, all right, and that would have been great. I wanted to do that. I wanted that recognition. I had no idea what awaited me.

Now, through hard work and some luck, I became very famous, worldwide famous. In fact, I've sold 19 million books off the History Killing series. But fame, hit me pretty hard. I didn't do anything crazy. I never drank or take drugs or anything like that. I was always fairly grounded in my working class existence, but because I gave political opinions, they came after me. They being the people who wanted to destroy me, not only because I was famous, but I was saying things they didn't like. In a free society, we should be able to say things that you don't like without somebody trying to kill you, literally kill you. Or at times I had a body,

Even today, when we have the no-spin news and we have 300 radio stations and we have shock and awe, I can't just go to the game and sit there like everybody else. I can't. I have to have security. They call it security. Most people, 90% are very nice. And I don't mind posing for the pictures, the selfies and all that. Everybody has a cell phone.

I don't mind it. but I've got to be careful. Now, the final thing before we get to our guests who know Elvis, Lenin, and Muhammad Ali, well, fame affects everyone in the public eye. Some people like Kim Kardashian are famous just because they're famous. Nobody knows what they do or anything, but they want to be famous. J. Lowe, these people, every day in the paper, they court it, they want to. it. They love it. They're addicted to it. The two most powerful men in the United States right now have been influenced by fame way beyond what the public knows. And they are President Biden and

Donald Trump. President Biden changed his whole foundation in order to become president. Everything that he once believed, he no longer believes. Because he wanted that fame and that power. Donald Trump was always addicted to fame. From the time he was 10, he wanted to be famous. And you can make a strong argument, and I have in my book, the United States of Trump, that's hurt Donald Trump. Because he needs the daily fame fix. It gets him in trouble. So I wanted to bring in that over. overarch to say to you, the killing the legends, the lethal danger of celebrity, is a serious history book. Hey, I'm Caitlin Becker, the host of the New York Postcast, and I've got exactly what you need

to start your weekdays. Every morning, I'll bring you the stories that matter, plus the news people actually talk about, the juicy details in the worlds of politics, business, pop culture, and everything in between. It's what you want from the New York Post wrapped up in one snappy show. Ask your smart speaker to play the NY Postcast podcast podcast podcast. Listen and subscribe on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Sean Spicer from the Sean Spicer Show podcast, reminding you to tune into my show every day to get your daily dose inside the world of politics.

President Trump and his team are shaking up Washington like never before, and we're here to cover it from all sides, especially on the topics the mainstream media won't. So if you're a political junkie on a late lunch or getting ready for the drive, home. New episodes of the Sean Spicer Show podcast drop at 2 p.m. East Coast every day. Make sure you tune in. You can find us at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. And now let's bring in Scott Shannon. You may know the name. He's kind of famous in 2003. He was inducted into the National Association of Broadcasters Hall of Fame. You can hear him on W.CBS Radio in New York. He hosts America's greatest hits and the True Old East Channel. He knows the rock world as well as any human being on this earth.

So you got Killing the Legends. You see how I handle Elvis and John Lennon. Do you have any questions for me about it before I get to my questions, to you? I got the book. I'm about halfway done with it. It's amazing. I basically live through a lot of that book.

And I met and interviewed several people in the book, not Elvis, not John Lennon, but I interviewed three of the Beatles, interviewed Jimmy Hendricks, Janice Joplin, and I was just a kid. I wasn't a very good interviewer at that time. I've gotten a little bit better, but it was just an amazing trip. And at that time, I didn't take pictures. I just did the interview. We didn't have selfies. This was in the rockin' 70s. And you're exactly right, what you say in the book, what you just said that it definitely affects people. I remember Janice Joplin doing an interview and I saw it. And she said, well, when I first got successful, you know, it was my dream. I wanted to be

famous. And then I thought that that fame would quench some sort of feeling that I had inside a drive, a desire. And I think she, you know, drank constantly. I mean, she really did, wasn't heavy into alcohol. And she also, and then got into sex, she was sleeping with everybody that she could possibly sleep with, you know, famous people. And then she decided to get into heavier stuff

besides alcohol. She continued to look for that thrill and that satisfaction from being famous. And it didn't turn out so well. It never does. Now, Elvis Presley changed American culture before Elvis came on the scene. We were a conformity society coming off the Eisenhower administration post-World War II. Not much rebellion a little bit, but not much. Elvis gets up there

explodes. Young people grow their hair long, the slick back greasers, pastors are condemning Elvis for his shakeability on the Ed Sullivan show. And the whole culture trembles as the younger Americans say, I don't want to be a conformist anymore. I want to be a rocker. I want to be a leather jacket guy, gal, whatever it may be, happy days. So he changed that culture almost single-handedly. Oh, it was basically single, 90% of the people who went into that culture. It was because of Elvis.

To this day, and I told you, I've interviewed a lot of people because I've done top 40 radio since I was 20 years old. And two things popped up in my head that I realized as time went by. If they were older people, the story goes like this. I didn't know what I wanted to be until that night I sat there and watched the Ed Sullivan show. And Elvis came on. And that's when I decided I'm going to drop this violin or I don't want to play the piano anymore. I want a guitar and I want to be like Elvis.

I'm saying some of the biggest names in the business, like Tom Petty. Elvis was his rocket point. And then if it's later on, as time went by, these people would tell me these stories, and they changed their mind. They were inspired by the same show, Ed Sullivan, the night the Beatles came on there and sang and changed the course of history. That's what they were inspired by. Yes, change the course of history.

I just found it kind of weird. When Elvis did change the course of history, he didn't know it. See, he couldn't see it. And that's not a criticism of Elvis. He's a high school grad driving a truck in Tupelo, Mississippi. This guy, you know, all of a sudden he becomes the most famous person in the world. He didn't know it. And then all of the stimulation around him,

caused him then to recede into a bubble and the bubble killed him that's what happened elvis there was a song one time done by peggy lee and it was written by libra and stoler and called is that all there is and i call that the is that all there is syndrome because they got famous and it didn't bring him anything but grief they once they got past the money and private Jets and all that. What else was there? And then they didn't they that way? And that was the truth. And they didn't have people around them and some of that was Elvis's fault that they were looking out for Elvis. Everybody was taking and taking and taking away from him and the whole thing collapsed. That was a different another transition from the rock and roll 60s already

established Beach Boys Four Seasons going along, big industry Motown, you mentioned the two songwriters attached to Motown. Great time in America for music. And then the Beatles, of course, trumped everybody. But what Lenin did is he took everybody

into the sex, drugs, and rock and roll era almost single-handedly with growing a hair long, Sergeant Pepper, Magical Mystery Tour. Here were the Beatles, taking people into a totally different culture, which, of course, exists today, correct?

Correct. Well, there's another point that you make in the book that's very interesting about Elvis and Lenin, the Fea of the Beatles. They were the only two people that I can remember that really changed the way young people dressed and the way they wore their hair and the way they conducted themselves. Right. I mean, everybody, when I was a kid, had the Elvis hair, you know, the Elvis hair coming out. Some parents didn't let their kids do it.

My dad was an army sergeant. Very strict. But when I left the house, I had it like I wanted it. And the same thing with dressing. Just like you said, I mean, it changed everything in the young world. It was amazing how it happened. It was. And people don't think back to that we live in a permissive age.

now where almost everything is legal and back in the late 50s with Elvis, late 60s with the Beatles, it wasn't. And there was this clash. Now the permissive forces have won and it then comes back down to individual how you raise your kids. But letting himself, just like Elvis, almost exactly the same, got crushed by this and turned to heroin. Most people don't know that. That's what broke up the Beatles. And when we discovered it, Martin Dugart and I were writing the book, we knew that Lenin was at the heavy-duty narcotics. But we didn't know the extent of it until we got the transcript of his actual drug dealer.

The guy who was selling him this stuff. And that was well hidden from the press. Couldn't do it now. But that, again, why would a guy like Lenin and the Beatles, the biggest act in the world has everything he wants go down that dark avenue you made some

points in the book that I did not know and it's an amazing re I mean it's a I mean it's a plug but you deserve it for what you went through and what you guys did right in that book there's a story that I'll

share with you and it's very strange I was privy one of the first people to know that Elvis had passed away but it was accidental at the time I was working in the record business in Los Angeles

for a label called Casablanco Records. We had Kiss on the label and Donna Summer led by it's a wow man and and the time I was working I worked there and then I transitioned into a

a rock and roll newspaper called Radio and Records. It was run by a fellow named Bob Wilson. And a partner of my friend Bob Wilson was a guy named Bob Kardashian. And that's the very same Kardashian, as we've grown to know and love his children now. But at the time, he had divorced their mother, and he was dating Priscilla Presley. So the morning, it was morning in Los Angeles, I happened to be in the office. And these people from Memphis were trying to locate Bob Kardashian because they couldn't find Priscilla to tell her that Elvis had passed. They didn't want to release the news yet until she knew.

So that was kind of a strange. That's quite a story. That's quite a story. Yeah, they, these Titans, all three of them, Presley, Lennon, and Ali, they influence us even today, but they all got crushed. And last question for you, is it possible to survive that kind of celebrity? It's possible because it happens. It always changes your personality. Some people get through it.

Like, I'll tell you, Taylor Swift is pretty much like she was before when she started out. She always wanted to be a singer. She always wanted to be famous. Her dad and mom moved the whole family to Nashville so she could chase her dream. And if you talk to her today, I mean, she's busier. She's got an empire to run and everything. But she still has emotion and a heart that she reaches out and helps other people. And she doesn't take a lot of credit for it.

they keep it on the down low. So there's one person who's certainly found fame and fortune and survived it. All right, and you and I survived it to some degree. We're still here to talk about it. Anyway, Scott Chad. Yeah, I really appreciate your reading a book and coming on and talk about it. Thanks a lot, Scott. Great job, great job, Bill.

Power, politics, and the people behind the headlines. I'm Miranda Devine, New York Post columnist, and the host of the brand new podcast, Podforce One. Every week, I'll sit down for candid conversations with Washington's most powerful disruptors, lawmakers, and even the president of the United States. These are the leaders shaping the future of America and the world. Listen to Podforce One with me, Miranda Devine,

every week on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. You Don't Want to Miss an episode. Now over to Mohamed Ali. As I said at the beginning, Elvis Presidency John Lennon Muhammad Ali, our cultural history. The way we live today in this country was influenced by them. So Muhammad Ali was by far the most magnificent, successful athlete in the African American community. And not only was he an icon of the United States, but all over the world. And he brought hope to black people.

And they were proud of him. And when he rebelled against the Vietnam War, most African Americans supported that rebellion, even though it wasn't brought on by him as much as the nation of Islam, which controlled him. So Muhammad Ali was next to Martin Luther King Jr., perhaps the most dynamic, force in the African-American community for 10, 12 years. And that is the importance that he brings to any historical analysis. So with us now is a man named Thomas Hauser. He has written six books on Muhammad Ali.

He has a new book out published by the University of Arkansas. It is called In the Inner Sanctum. So I am fascinated by a strong man, Muhammad Ali, I mean, a guy was just the best prize fighter ever, in my opinion, ceding all of his autonomy and power to an organization, the nation of Islam. How do you see that? Ali had a firm religious belief at that time in his life that Elijah Muhammad was a messenger of God and that he was preaching a message that was appropriate for him.

Now, George Foreman said something to me, years later, which I think is correct. George Foreman looked at Muhammad Ali's actions in the 1960s and said he didn't believe that was actually a religious awakening. He thought that was a political and social awakening on Ali's part. The religious awakening came later in the 1970s after Elijah Muhammad died, and Muhammad's view shifted from a belief in Nation of Islam doctrine to more orthodox Islam. But look, there are plenty of people who are believers who follow that code, whether it's religious, political, social. There's no doubt about it.

The nation of Islam gave him a very strong reason to be proud of being black at a time in his life when he and many other black people needed that message. But at the same time, he had to know that the nation of Islam was bleeding him, pardon upon, financially. And we opened the section on Ali in killing the legends in Manila, where Ali was almost killed in that fight, according to his doctor, Ferdi Bacheco. And Bichekko told not only Ali, but Herbert Muhammad, the son of Elijah Muhammad, who was Ali's direct manager. Look, if you keep putting this guy in a ring, you're going to kill him, which they didn't kill him, but they diminished him to the sense that is second of his life, he couldn't do very much.

So Ali had to know, and he did know, that he was being used by this crew, or am I wrong? Well, Ali wanted to fight. It was obvious to everybody around Ali who cared about Ali, that he was impaired, that his skills. were diminishing over time. He's not the only fighter who fought too long. The three greatest fighters of all time, Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Lewis, and Muhammad Ali all fought too long, and they all wound up in very, very sad physical condition. It wasn't religion that pushed Joe Lewis or Sugar Ray Robinson to keep fighting. They were fighters. It's what they defined themselves by, and they were doing it for the money. Most athletes don't stop until they're forced to.

now you have a baseball player or a football player and if they can't do it anymore no matter how big their name is no team will put them on the field and boxing there are always people who will bleed you yeah especially if you're famous but Ali had to know he was almost bankrupt

he's married five times he had money flying out of there a lot of it going to the nation of Islam and Herbert Muhammad himself he had to know like Elvis Presley who almost had to file for bankruptcy, that he was being taken advantage of. Ali was not in control of his life, was he? Ali was never one to look at money.

In some ways, he was a genius. Financial management was not one of them. He wasn't on an even financial keel until he married Lonnie Ali, his fourth and final wife, and Lonnie, who was a business major in college, set about straightening out his finances, getting rid of a lot of the hangars on and seeing that things were done. And Ali allowed that.

So he allowed Lonnie to take over that. But before she came on the scene, the hangers on were legioned, just like Elvis. Same thing. They were all over the place. Just like Ray Robinson, who made the entourage famous, just like Joe Lewis, who said, I never needed that much money.

It was the people around me who did. Just because somebody is a great fighter or a great singer doesn't mean that they know how to manage their finances. Usually they don't. Particularly with somebody like Muhammad who really didn't understand financial concepts, didn't understand geopolitical concepts. He sort of did what he did intuitively.

Sometimes it was right, sometimes it was wrong. Now, do you believe that Muhammad Ali controlled his life? Because we have a number of portions in killing the killers, killing the legends, I'm sorry, that say he didn't want to fight. He didn't want to do this, he didn't want to do that, but he was pressured by the nation of Islam to do it. And so he succumbed to that pressure. Muhammad made his own decisions. Now, the key there is how were options presented to him. If at a certain point in time you said to Muhammad, this would be good for Islam,

then he might do it, even though it might not be good for him and even though it might not be good for Islam. But he generally made up his own mind. Now, he was very subject to suggestion. He married Sanji Roy, his first wife, against the wishes of the nation of Islam, and then pressure from the nation of Islam was one reason that he divorced her because she was not adhering to doctrine. Did Herbert Muhammad want him to keep fighting? Absolutely. Herbert wanted the money, but Muhammad did too. He was like a kid born in a circus tent. It was the only world he knew, and for a good part of his life it was what he defined himself by, and it was his platform for so much of what happened. And he was also afraid, and it wasn't a valid fear, but he was afraid that if he stopped

fighting, people would forget him, that he would lose his platform. So that's an interesting point you just make. And that brings us back to the weight of celebrity crushing most people who become famous, even strong people. It's too much for a human being, particularly in a case of Muhammad Ali where it's worldwide. He couldn't go anywhere. He couldn't do anything. Everybody knew him.

No matter where he went in the world, there were, you know, people would rule. rush out to him. And the weight of that, where he didn't want to lose it, I think pretty much destroyed him in the end. But Ali, Ali loved that attention. In other words, if you have that kind of fame, and very few people do, either you set strict boundaries on it, like somebody like Paul McCartney did, or you embrace it fully as Ali did, or it drives you nuts, which is what happened to Elvis. Ali loved being famous. For Ali, going out on the street, not having anybody recognized him, would have been a downer. He loved it. He probably signed more autographs,

and I mean this quite literally. He probably signed more autographs than anybody else in the history of mankind when you figure that he started signing around 18 at the 19th Sipsi Olympics and did it until the end of his life when he just couldn't physically sign anymore. He loved that attention. What he really had. I understand it, but he destroyed him. And it hurt his kids. It hurt his kids. And he, you know, because the celebrity was so egocentric to all three of these men that the collateral damage was extensive. We really appreciate it, Mr. Howes, a very good insight. And thank you for participating in Shockin'aw. So let me wrap this up and tell you that this book, Killing the Legends, is much more than a celebrity book. It is about the human

condition. The two most famous people in the United States right now are President Biden and Donald Trump. Both of them, I will submit, have been crushed by celebrity. Biden completely sold out all of his core beliefs, every single one of them, to obtain power. Trump is so addicted to celebrity that every day he's got to be in the public eye. He engages in controversies that he doesn't need to. That hurts him and hurts the country while he was governing because he has to be the center of attention, just as Muhammad Ali had to be the center retention. Lenin not so much. Lenin, what happened to him, he was crushed, but it was he seated his life to somebody else, Yoko On him. Presley seated his life to a crook,

Tom Parker, who stole his money and manipulated him into a lifestyle of dissolution. But all three men, and I would submit to you, I don't know if Biden knows at this point in his life, how celebrity has just robbed him of any core belief. Trump knows, but can't stop, because that's how powerful celebrity is. And it is. I mean, it is a narcotic in itself, because you are treated specially, differently. You are afforded praise, adulation, but the downside is you lose control of what's happening to you. And I'll wrap it up with this. In 1967, Elvis Presley made a comeback. You might remember that. If you didn't see the special, you can Google it. He looked great. Black leather outfits sitting there with a guitar, his guys around him. Big, big television

success on NBC. Okay, Elvis is back. Ten years later, you look at Elvis? It's hard to believe it's the same human being. Now, Elvis Presley had to have mirrors in Graceland, his house in Memphis, Tennessee. He had to see with his own eyes what was happening to him. Muhammad Ali had to know what was happening to him. And John Lennon became addicted to heroin. So he had to know that's how powerful and how crushing this celebrity thing is.