Bill O’Reilly’s No Spin News and Analysis - Shock and Awe: Liberalism in America

Episode Date: October 10, 2023

Bill lays out the evolution of liberalism with Rolling Stone Magazine founder Jann Wenner. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And tonight we're going to talk about liberalism in America. It's really changed a lot. It goes in cycles as conservatives know because the right goes in cycles too. But we have, I think, a very interesting presentation because we have a guy who is in the middle of it, who started modern liberalism in the media, a guy named Jan Wenner. You might know the name, Rolling Stone Magazine. He's got a new book out, and it's a good book. I read it.

We'll get to him in a moment. But liberalism really took off in America in the mid-1960s, concurrently with the Vietnam War. Before then, it was a concept, Adelae Stevenson, but America is a traditional society. As I wrote in my book, Killing the Legends, Elvis Presley was the first one to blow up the conformity and ushered in Iraq Rebellion.

but, you know, we still had the twist and hula hoop, and, you know, we were kind of an innocent, marginal society back in the early 60s, despite Elvis. But in the mid-60s, with the arrival of the Beatles and John Lennon, again, that's featured in killing the legends, sex drugs, rock, and roll came in associated with liberal thought. They were intertwined. Now, politically, liberalism today is dominating the United States of America because Joe Biden is a progressive. He governs from the far left. He told everybody he wasn't going to do that, but he is.

And that has gotten him into some trouble. And that analysis is confirmed by the economy, primarily. However, getting where we are is a fascinating voyage, and that's what we want to explore tonight. So a little bit about Yon Winter. He was born in New York, educated in California, Berkeley, University of California at Berkeley. He borrowed $7,500 from his family to start Rolling Stone Magazine, and the first edition came out in 1967. But it was in 68 that Rolling Stone exploded with a cover. of John Lennon and Yoko Ono naked across the world.

That was the signature driver of Rolling Stone. And it became quickly the Bible in the music industry, and it was parallel with politics. You may remember Hunter Thompson, writing about Richard Nixon, some classic stuff. And Rolling Stone, at its height, had a circulation of one and a half million. It's now down about 400,000, but every single print publication in the age of the internet is in decline. Rolling Stone has a robust internet presence. So anyway, I asked Mr. Winner to come on. He is the author, as I mentioned, of like a Rolling Stone. It was released in September. It is a bestseller. And I did read the book. And for me to read a book

that runs about 500 pages is, you know, it held my interest, so you know. And Mr. Winter joins us now from New York City. Is that where you are in New York? I am. I'm glad to hear it held your interest that long. Now, did I miss anything that you want to get in there in the lead? No, I think that's all good, but importantly is that the book is readable and enjoyable and like that.

Yeah, you're not hitting anybody over the head with ideology in the book. It's more reminiscent of the people. you knew and you knew everybody in the rock industry you i have a i have the i make a strong case for the political mission of rolling stone and of the times and of the generation and going back to what you started with i think there's two things i think liberalism by the way began with roosevelt and the response to the depression and all that and i think that was the beginning of liberalism and what we see today in biden is a is a renewal of that you know level of kind of government interference, government taking over things and running things for the benefit of a broad group of people.

But for the purposes of what you're talking about the 60s, I think you're right, some new thing happened there. And I think that it became very, very liberal. And I think was the confluence of the baby boom, which became the single largest population cohort in American history, the wealthiest because of the largest of all the profitability after the war, and the best thing. educated because America invested in this huge education system for this cohort, but by the time the baby boom started to become of age and go to college and me in its adulthood, it started discovering things that weren't what they expected. For instance, we were told it was a society, the purpose of America was life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Well, sooner or later, quickly, very quickly discovered that there was racism. It was rampant, you know, throughout the South. It wasn't all, there was no equality of that type of this problem. Then you got the war in

Vietnam, which is a war. That was the key, but I want to step stair it. The difference now in liberalism than the mid-60s, when you guys

were at Rolling Stone, were kind of like setting the agenda, what is it? What's a difference between then and now in the liberal precincts? Well, I don't think it's altogether that different. I think that the issues are the same.

There's this question of youth versus old elders, which is always something that goes on, it's always a dynamic that goes on the generational dynamic. I think that is contrast to the war in Vietnam. Today's young people are very concerned about the environment and the potential for, you know, social, you know, civilized civilizations to collapse. I mean, for, and all the ugliness would go into that, you know, and as resources become more limited. Let's face it, the U.S. economy is under stress.

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So if you're a political junkie on a late lunch or getting ready for the drive home, new episodes of the Sean Spicer Show podcast drop at 2 p.m. East Coast every day. Make sure you tune in. You can find us at Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. I think there's still this idealism. I think the differences, maybe there's a little more realism. about this today? I mean... Well, what about socialism, though? The progressive left

is heavy into socialism. They want the government to control the economy, they want redistributing of income, they want woke tendencies. If you deviate from woke, you can't go to Yale, you can't give a speech. That's totalitarianism. That wasn't in play so much. Yes, the SDS and all of that, they were kooky in the 60s and trying to bring in this very heavy dose of totalitarianism. But that was just a very, very small. Do you think it's worse today?

Do you think it's worse today? Do you think it's worse today? Way worse today. All you got to do is go to any college campus and see the fear of saying something that's against the liberal orthodoxy. I went to college in Vietnam era, and there were robust debates then. Well, I think that the thing with wokeism and what you're saying, I think like everything, something can go too far.

There's a kernel of it, there's a core of it that's justifiable and right, which has to respect for other people and has to without slurring people without categorizing me and stuff. But it goes too far to a kind of ridiculous extent, and then that gets mocked and it'll go back to what it's meant to be. But you mentioned about socialism and taking over the government. I think that people are interested in seeing a more equitable distribution of wealth. that it's wrong for some people to control or have a billion dollars or two billion dollars.

I mean, what can you do with that kind of money? You know, versus what? That's not capitalism. And no, no, but people are not our country was founded. No, no, there's none. There's such a thing, and it came in with Roosevelt, as Teddy Roosevelt, regulated, well-regulated capitalism. Some capitalism plays to some pretty base instincts among people,

including just sheer greed, you know. What we're asking for is not that the incentive of capitalism, the freedom to do what you want, any area, make lots of money else stuff. Nobody's trying to take that away. It's a great system. It works. But it also these two excesses like everything, excesses of wealth or the real estate. You're then giving the power of who defines excess to a central government that has been woefully inadequate in problem solving. No, no, no.

Let me give you one example. Okay, please. Rolling Stone over the years has been very, very adamant that poor Americans should get a leg up. Would you agree with that? Yeah. Okay. The data on poverty is that it stems from two things in the African American community. Now, today, not by the Civil War. The dissolution of the family, number one, and drug addiction and substance abuse. Number two. So you're going to be poor if you're a drug or addict or alcoholic, and it's likely you're going to be poor if you don't have a responsible father and mother in the home raising you. The left does not want to deal with that at all. It wants to basically centralize the power to give, and that's the word, to give things to people who don't have them. In capitalism, wait, in capitalism,

sometimes it's the fault of the people who are poor. It's their own fault. Go ahead. Well, respectfully, I don't know what's, if you're looking at, and there's a lot of dispute about those kinds of things about the need for families, something like that. 71% of African-American families are single, single.

71%. Let me say, overall, even if people are drug abusers or their fit come from broken homes, does this make them not eligible for the charity and the goodness of our society? Absolutely not.

Do the most down-trodden among them. And they should be held. So help them, help them, even if they, and especially people who can't help themselves, does it mean that poor people are always the brunt of these Republican conservative

policies, whatever one they are, whether it's about cost of medical care, whether it's access to medical care, whether it's the cost of insulin, all these things, whether it's denial of all kinds of rights. I find the policies as a Republican Party, the conservative ended so unsharyable.

I'm not a Republican. I'm not a Republican Party. Look, look. But I'm saying about the Republican Party. Let me just sit there's about the, they're so unchristian in their basic approach to mankind. Some of that. Difference is.

Not everybody. But the ones who are creating. policy in Congress, the ones I'm talking about, and the ones out there in those churches. But in contrast to that, what I find, whatever you want to say about socialism or other kind of words, in the Democratic policy, I signed them to be charitable, forgiving, generous, and humane. And that's what I like. If you skip where the capitalism is regulated or not. Okay, but let's take San Francisco with town, you know very well. That's where Rolling Stone

Magazine started. that town has been destroyed by progressive policies because there are so many drug-addicted people now on the streets doing whatever they want to do that means selling that and all of that I was just out there last week and you're right there is a collapse number

there's an extraordinary number of homeless people walking around it's like unpleasant it's got to that kind of level but there's a reason why it's the compassion reason they give drug addicts money so if you're a drug addict you're going there because they're giving you money with no strings attached here here's money so camp out in the street take your drugs and do whatever you want we're not going to bother you that's I don't think it's quite that I don't think that's quite simple I don't think I didn't see any example of anarchy on the streets what I saw is it's unpleasant to walk around some neighborhoods

Is it dangerous? No. The idea of giving people who are drug addicted or in need of hungry, shelter and some level of compassion, some level of compassion. I think there's a noble. And what is the response? And I know it hasn't created any anarchy in San Francisco as far as I can see. They're leaving San Francisco like crazy. People are leaving the city like it's the most beautiful city in the country and they can't get out fast enough.

But what is compassionate about? allowing a person to destroy him or herself and infringing on the rights of all the people who live in San Francisco. What is compassionate about that? I don't feel that drug addiction is infringing on my rights. They're living on your stoop, John. They're deprecating in the street. Yeah, I don't like it.

You should do something about it. But that doesn't just because one's bugging. What should they do? But that's not a systematic problem around New York. Most of our stoops are quite clean. Nobody is defecated on my stoop, but I live here, ever. New York is now a dangerous place in the subway, particularly, okay, because criminals are running wild. No, no, they're not running.

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You know. The Bloomberg years, we're among the great years in terms of safety. New York remains to be one that is the, I believe, the safest big of the big 20 cities in the country. This thing about anarchy in the streets is like madden is like this Trump, Steve Bannon kind of formulation. It's just nuts. It's not true. nobody where when's the last time you saw

anarchy in the streets I've never seen it and anarchy in the streets may be caused by the white supremacist protesting in Charlottesville or whatever but that's the extent of a anarchist on the capital

we saw anarchy on January 6th I haven't seen any other anarchy and I live here if you was in sexes go the perception of danger and the actual danger in New York City by every crime measure

is way way up and it's a lot different now than it was under Giuliani Bloomberg, and you know it. So the more progressive the city leadership has gotten, the quality of light goes down. I got another thing I want to. One of the fascinating things about your book is that you know all these people. You know them. They curried favor with you because you were the poobah. You know, cover the Rolling Stone, Dr. Hook saw.

Got to get on Rolling Stone. They like my record, it's in. So you know. You've been reading Rolling Stone. For you all, admit it right here. You grew up reading Rolling Stone. I always read Rolling Stone because Hunter Thompson was a genius, and I loved reading what he said.

But you, the mistake that Rolling Stone made and still makes, is that you glorified drug use. And I have a list of all the people that you know that died from drugs. I'm just wondering, in hindsight, was it a mistake to glorify the drugs the way Rolling Stone did? Well, first of all, drugs is a big general term, and there's a lot of things between drugs, like pot, which we believe, and always said, is essentially harmless and enjoy it and take your time. The born pot is useless, as putting innocent people in jail, particularly black people. Do not, and a difference between that and drug and like cocaine or hair. We didn't advocate for the use of heroin and cocaine, and that's what caused these overdoses of these selected people on your list.

Oh, but you were big cocaine, guys. Come on, you admit it in your book. I admit it in the book, yes. And I say in the book, also, I regret it and I don't recommend it to anybody. And why do you regret? But people who overdosed and died of drugs were primarily dying because of heroin, not because of cocaine. All right, well, whatever it may be. It's a heroin. We didn't advocate.

Why do you regret the cocaine? at the cocaine. It's like speed, it ultimately ends up being speed. And speed is just a bad drug for people, you know. Why? Because of what it does, the mental process, you don't think enough, you know, you're babbling all the time. It's just, it's corrupt, it's corrosive drug.

Pot and L.C. are like enhancing. I don't care about pot. But wouldn't it have been better for Rolling Stone to take a hard line against the harder drugs, methamphetamine, heroin, cocaine. Would it have been better? Because you guys opened that gate. You made it okay.

Sex drugs and rockabot. No, no. I didn't make it okay for methamphetamine or heroin. Okay. Rock and all did tend to promote the use of cocaine, you know. And now it seems to us. But John Lennon was a heroin addict. He was your buddy.

That doesn't mean that he was out promoting heroin, the culture, or that I would be on low board. But it broke up the Beatles. A lot of people have been heroin addicts. But, I mean, I just don't, drug use and rock and roll came hand in hand. Right. That's true. Like jazz came, you know, came and promoted pot in hand in hand and all the other kind of drugs.

And just part of that friend of the society. Was it actively promoted? I don't think in certain, in certain cases, yeah, it made, in certain cases, it made it look more glamorous. Glamorous, that's right. Hunter Thompson was a genius. he was a genius. A hundred times, wait, wait, 100 times it was a genius, okay?

If you read his stuff, right. And he blew his brains out, okay? And I'm going to submit to you that part of it was because of the inebriation factor. And when I was reading your book, you almost looked fondly back on those days in the late 60s and 70s when everybody was running around doing this stuff

at the parties, Studio 50s, Now, I'm a different cat, as Dennis Miller would say. I've never taken a drug in my life. I have no interest in intoxication on any level. It's not too late for you to throw your life away. I urge you to know. I would never do that because I'd be in a penitentiary. And there would be bail for me, all right?

They make an exception for me. Okay, now look, I think that liberalism has changed dramatically in this country and that the fringe, progressive, far left, has controlling it now. What do you say? I say that the stakes right now in our society are higher than they've ever been. We have more wealth in this country and, I don't even know what to do with it. So it keeps showing up in people's 400-foot yachts and stuff like that. And I think that people are looking at this country,

we have to establish now for the future a fairness about society about the way we treat other people and what are our aims of society we can't go on with endless growth you know i mean that's just not going to be sustainable in this country or anywhere in the world we're going to eat it all up so we've kind of got to get to a slightly different mindset and i think that government regulation is very important government does in given fair elections represent the will of the people yes it can be inefficient sometimes yes it can get to be a bureaucratic mess and yes it can be slow and inefficient on stuff but the other hand put to the purpose of society, we operate the post office, the Army, the Defense Department,

all kinds of agencies very well and provide for the people in this country. I think it's just about sharing your wealth a little more. It's more than any other thing, if you want to put it, share the wealth a little more. Take five or ten percent from the top and shift it to those people in the bottom who really are. Those people at the bottom, a lot of them are irresponsible people who no matter what you give them are not going to prosper. My theory as an independent is create opportunity. That's the key to the American dream. And that's why millions of people want to come here from all over the world.

They don't want to go to France or Sweden. They want to come here because the opportunity is here. Now, you're correct in the sense that society is way too self-centered right now. Americans are way too self-centered. And social media is part of that. We don't think about the things that we should be doing for other people who truly deserve to help. So if you're a heroin addict and you want to kick it, I'll pay for it. I want you to get rid of it.

But if you want to lay about in New York or San Francisco and get high all day long, I want you out of here. I want you in a rehab forced rehab facility. You may. but I want you out. Progressives don't want to buy into the personal responsibility thing. They don't want to do it. No, I think that progressives advocate things like, you know, clinics with free heroin needle exchanges in all the things that you can bring an addict into the health system for treatment.

These things are generally disapproved of by the conservative constituency and told, no, we can't have treatment centers like that. And no, you can't give away heroin free under prescription and stuff like that. These are the things that are necessary. just you can't make a decision quickly inherited but i think a well-regulated government system and self-help are not irreconciled they work together you know people do need that hand up it's hard to lift yourself up by the bootstraps if you're trying to come out of the ghetto or have real poverty and those kids that do get that chance we've got to extend that and i think

you can do both all right and i'd like to see it done efficiently last question for you if you were still and your hand is still in rolling stone i think your son runs under now is that correct okay would you endorse joe biden again without a question you think he's doing a good job i think he's doing a terrific job look at what he's had to deal with why then is it approval rating why then is approval rating so low among the american people well you know i i that i can't answer really quickly in that but you think hudder thompson would like joe biden oh yeah yeah Are you really? I don't think so. Joe, unfortunately, it's not a charismatic dynamic guy,

and I think that's about half of the reason it's underneath because he just looks older. You know, he looks slower. But if you objectively look at the job he's doing with Ukraine and Putin, and finally at last cracking down on China, and a bunch of other stuff, I think he's doing a fantastic job. I honest to God do. All right.

Would I give him a high charisma learning? No. Hey, John, this was a really good interview and very fun to talk to you. And as you mentioned, I've followed Rolling Stone pretty much since you guys put it out. And all the stories in your book, I said, wow, this guy has read. He's led quite a life. So the book, again, is like a Rolling Stone.

He sold it, stole it from Bob Dylan, who he knows. He knows everybody. And this is the first time we've ever chatted, by the way. So I hope you found it worthwhile. That was instructive to me. not a conservative individual, I'm traditional, which is a difference. Because conservative ideology, there are some very good things about it, respecting the past, learning from success. You know, why did we become the superpower of the world, the most successful nation that's

ever existed? Why? We did it on capitalism, hard work, and self-reliance. The progressive movement doesn't believe in that. And Mr. Wend is a smart guy, very successful guy. negotiated himself through the U.S. capitalistic system to become one of the most famous media people. And as I said, it was the first time I've ever talked to him. Now, one of the things that I understand, because I've been doing this for so long, is that very rarely are you going to change anybody's mind? So, you know, even though I point out at San Francisco or a danger level rising in New York City, Mr. Winter is not going to see it that way.

I see it that way. I believe I back it up with stats and pictures and everything in the world. He's not. Because people believe what they want to believe. That is a key to all political dialogue, to all different philosophies. People believe what they want to believe. So I want to believe that there's a God, that there's justice in the universe, that someday, the good will be rewarded and the evil will be punished. I want to believe that. And so I do. Now, I wrote killing Jesus. So I am a fact-based faith guy about a man who became the most famous individual in history. How did he do it? I'm not just some blind guy that comes in. But people believe what they want to believe. And they're comfortable in certain places. So the left is comfortable where they are.

I got a lot of liberal friends. And they, like Mr. Wenner, think Joe Biden's doing a hell of a job. Okay? Now, I know he's not. I don't believe he's not. I know he's not. Based upon the amount of people who are suffering because the economy has turned south. And that progressive economic policies do not work.

They don't. Now, how many times does that lesson have to be learned before people start to say, yeah, maybe you're right, O'Reilly. Progressive policies economically don't work. I think we're going to see it November 8th. I'm just getting the feeling it's going to be a tidal wave of anti-progressive action. And people are going to vote against the Democratic Party because the Democratic Party and the progressives are now one. They have linked up. And the only thing really keeping the Democratic Party afloat is the media, which overwhelmingly left. And that's not going to change, no matter how unsuccessful the progressive movement is and Mr.

Biden is, the media is not, because they want to believe in a certain thing. But I got to give Yon Wenner credit. I mean, there are very few liberals who will stand up to me. They won't. They run. Barack Obama was an exception, did three interviews with him. Bill Clinton, exception, did a number of interviews with him. But most of them, they don't want a part of me.

Pelosi would never have to talk to me. Joe Biden never talked. When I asked Biden face-to-face to come on a factor, he left. He goes, I got to do that. But when it really, he took the fire. I mean, it was a good back and forth. You saw where he's coming from. You saw where I'm coming from.

That is my job. Thank you.