Bittersweet Infamy - #133 - Naked and Aflame

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

Big Skookum B.C. Road Trip! In this special episode, Josie tells Taylor about the Sons of Freedom (a.k.a. the Freedomites), the religious sect with an affinity for public nudity and arson, and the history of the Doukhobors in British Columbia. Plus: join Josie, Taylor, and special guests Lucia Misch and Ruy Gonzalez as they wrap up the Big Skookum B.C. Road Trip, including stops at the South Enderby Flea Market, a Keremeos curio shop, and the party capital of Canada: Kelowna-fornia!

Everyone ready? Ready? Ready. Ready. Let's get Skookum. Buckle up for the Bitter's up for the Bitter sweet infamy, big skukum-BC road trip. I'm Josie Mitchell. We'll be joined by our friends Lucia Mish and Rui Gonzalez as we explore Canada's beautiful westernmost province, from mountains to valleys, glaciers to hot springs, rainforests to deserts. Along the way, we'll tell you some of British Columbia's most infamous stories.

The truth may be bitter, but the stories are always scookable. Bitter sweethearts, welcome one last time. time to the big skukum BC road trip. Road trip. I'm road trip. Celebration of all things, BC, especially when it comes down to infamy. That's the beat that we cover on this show, isn't it?

Regardless of what the block of programming is. But we do some pretty fun blocks of programming, and I like to think this is one. Me, Josie, Lucia Mish, Ruiz, Rui Gonzalez, going on a road trip together, recording our exploits and recording some BC-based infamous stories. for your ear holes at home. I'm excited for the time in the car, too, to, like, stare out the window and count the cows.

Count the cows, do a little driving, roll the windows down, put the wind through my hair. Release your inhibitions, feel the rain on your skin. Yeah, which I have yet to prepare this, I suppose, but I am going to bring some playlists. Do you have any? Can you put on my own prison by Creed on that playlist? Sure, absolutely. Well, I should say, I'm not doing it. Can you have Mitchell put my own prison by?

Creed on that playlist. Ruy's going to hate that. He's going to hate that I asked for that. Okay, good. Okay. I will let Mitchell know. And he, because he did ask, when does the road trip commence? That was one question he had for this.

July 20. What are y'all's emotional goals for the journey? I love him. What a guy. Cartharsis, distraction, release. Fun, fun. Yeah. I told him exploration, adventure, healthy nostalgia, and window gazing.

Healthy nostalgia as opposed to like being mired in the past. Yes. Yes. That's a good call. Window gazing is a good one too. We have a lot of beautiful sites in this beautiful province. When you think back to your times on the road and the Dodge Caravan that you grew up in, what sort of music do you hear on the radio? We didn't have playlists probably back then in the way that we do now. We had like your mom's tapes or whatever was on like FM radio. Yeah. What kind of tunes suffuse those memories?

my mom really liked country folk kind of stuff that's definitely a vibe that she has Texas girl yeah yeah yeah kind of Texas vived even like Appalachia vibe too further east and and then of course you know spice girls blink 182 yeah yeah all the hits all the hits too fun and we did a lot of book on tapes for like long trips actually what's a book that you remember listening to on tape during one of these long road trips. Punctually liked Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson. And what's that about? It's a sci-fi about colonization of Mars.

Right. And it has these like vast sweeping desert-like landscapes in it. And this was on a road trip through the southwest. So we were just like, bing, bing. Well, we're going to be going through Okinawagon. And that's like a very hot, arid place as Canadian locations go, certainly. Yeah. Yeah, if we get bored of music or the sound of our own.

voices we can yeah we can just put on an episode of bittersweet infamy too oh meta sometimes when i'm in the car with ruy they'll put on the podcast and it's always like a very confronting experience i would say yeah to like hear yourself it's weird it's like watching yourself do a play or something right it's fucking bizarre because i i listen i listen back to our episodes of course but i always listen to them with headphones or like little earbuds and like the idea of it like surrounds out captain chair thing is Who's she? Who's that surround sound diva? I don't know.

It's remind me of what's the demon dog and Ghostbusters? I don't know. I've never seen it. But new things every day. But we'll make our own fun. We can act out like I'll do Gladiator for you from memory. You know what I mean? I'll be like I'll be Joaquin Phoenix.

I'll be Russell Crow. Oh my gosh. Let me handle this. Oh my gosh. Okay. I don't remember much about the movie Gladiator. Wish me luck. It's going to be so good.

Okay. So we'll definitely put Creed on the place. playlist. Yeah, please, please. That'll be there. I think I want, remember that song you shared with me, Wayne? Wayne, wait for me, because I've been out him and honing to hear. Canadian icon Chantelle Craviazic. That's the first song on the Canadian playlist that I made you. Yeah. Yeah, we put Wayne on that shit. Okay, okay. Get Mitchell to put Wayne on that shit. Yeah. Nice. Okay, I have to remember these things. This is like, it's interesting to the art of the road trip melding of the people's personas to the music that is being listened to. Rue and I have very

conflicting musical taste. Rue would pick me up to work on the farm at 7 a.m. blaring some like dubstep track by a fucking drag queen. Yeah. Eat the cock. Eat the cock or some shit like that. And I would just be like, my coffee has not hit. I will not be eating anything. I don't typically like breakfast? We'll have plenty of time to haggle out the playlist on our trip, which, you know, we're going to be thrown to some clips here shortly, but alas, this is the final installment of the bittersweet road trip. Although we know that the memories made on the road last forever, as I found out at my grandmother's funeral when someone got up and told a story about how my grandma pranked them on a road trip by, I think she like shoved her hands under the stall and stole her toilet paper.

And she still remembers that enough to speak on it at this woman's fucking funeral. So truly, memories made on the road last forever. I hope we have a memory made. I hope you leave my toilet paper alone. I can say in your eulogy. Thank you. Oh, so I'm going first. I see how it is.

So I'll prepare it. Video message. Video message. Yeah, just like for all the famous people, how they're like news organizations are like ready to go. The Queen Operation London Bridge. Yeah, no, I got you. why don't we listen to some last memories from the very end of our road trip together and after that we'll come back josie has one last and maybe even the best yet

bc based infamous story to tell you to send this road trip home for a nice sleep and a shower probably a good shower will help too previously on the big skukum bcci road trip along with guest lucia you don't want to fucking I know big, but I do want $1,000. And Rui. Sharknado on Mars, Shark Nadeo on the Moon. We've experienced hot springs and warm lakes. Glaciers and game shows.

It sounds like a brand of drinks, so you wrote a C. Canadian tires and campfires. Josie, you are glowing bright red. I'm sorry you, my dude. Wow. We parted ways with Rui at Shambola Music Festival. And now Josie, Lichia, and I are headed home. We've still got a little bit of gas left in the tank, though.

Here's one last package for the road. We open our final reel of road trip action in Sycamus, BC, getting a bit of tongue action from some friendly Holstein cows. We've stopped at the D-Dutchman Derry here in Sycamuse. They have baby Holstein cows on display and they're quite adorable and they love to give licks. We have that in common. And you've gotten your lick? I got my lick, I got my look from this cow over here.

I got a, I kept on ticking though. That's the most important part. There's also a little Goat over here. But they're, I don't trust go-ats. They can be a little meany. The devil eyes. I want to go peeing in its own mouth. Oh.

It's apparently a thing to do. Kinky. Yeah. Hello, go at. Hi. Your pupils are pretty nuts. Yeah. Do you know that about yourself?

I got a two scoop cone. We're looking at peaches and cream on the top while cherry on the bottom. Pretty good so far. Got to say. Good. If you're in Sikkimus, come to the Dutchman. I've got like a good chunks of peaches in there, which I like. That's really lovely.

I know, I can see him. Mm-hmm. But it's like not in the cone. securely keeps one to wobble. I'll eat it. You got it. Oh, I got this. You got this. I chased that ice cream cone with a cold brew float at nearby Blondie's Cafe. When you're a grown-up, you're allowed to eat ice cream twice before noon. Our next stop was a place called Enderby, a charming town of about 3,000 where a refreshing river cuts through the humid North Okanagan.

Lucie, if you had to describe the downtown core of Enderby, BC, which seems to be where we find ourselves, how would you describe it? How would you describe it? Uh, I would describe it as sandy and vibe. Like, uh, lots of sand colored buildings. Uh-huh. Um, like, uh, new, New West, not as a New Westminster, but like as opposed to Old West. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah. Uh, sort of towing that line, I'd say it's very friendly.

Yeah. And it's kind of toasty. Kind of toasty. Kind of warm, a little sweaty. A little sweaty. You could buy a vape here? Yep. Well, someone could.

Someone who vaped, gross. Yeah, we don't know anyone like that. Nope. But say that the vape you have been vaping was starting to taste a little burnt on the exhale. One could hypothetically go to the very friendly vape shop and get a raspberry sour apple-flavored new vape. Yeah. What else could one get in a view of you think? Well, you could go into Foxglove and Fur and talk to Barb, and Barb has been selling flowers for a long time, but just flowers doesn't pay the bills in this economy, so now Barb is selling antique furniture.

She refurbishes herself. Yeah, really, really nice. Josie and I stopped in there for a good long chat. She was a total sweetheart. Former Vancouverite. Used to live on the drive. And we also went to, I guess it was Enderby Jewelers that we went to. Look at us going to a jeweler.

It's the secret store, they're called. and we got some made-in castle gar carved wooden Santa heads and Christmas ornaments for my mom. Yeah. We had a nice chat with the ladies at Ender B Jewelers. They were real sweet. Lots of locally made product. Yeah. I scooted down the road to a little, like, rummage shop looking for old hockey gear, like tarps and, you know, jackets.

I've been on the hunt for, like, for an old school starters jacket, like the windbreaker. Yeah. Ah, those are cool. Ideally, Jets, Jets merch, and though I didn't find any Jets merch, I did find a fellow Jets fan. There you, there's Jets fans everywhere you look. It's true. Even Winnipeg. Yep.

No, it's great. It's maybe a little hidden gem of B.C.'s Okanagan. And then also, you're on the hunt for some knock-off pit vipers. That's kind of our last mission left. Yes, I've really been dragging it out, and I think we need to stop. We need to stop stopping at like the Esos and the shells and whatever. and we need to start stopping at the like locally owned co-op things yeah like the little general store gas stations the selection will be wider they did have pit viper pit vipers at the vape shop that

someone who vaped would have gone to not but i felt that that violated the spirit of the mission i agree no good for you know your limit play within it as the bcLC says but i i was able to drop my postcard into the canada postbox been looking for that josie got a gift for my mom been looking for that so we're tying up our loose ends as we approach the uh the end unfortunately of the Big Skookum BC road trip. Because we get hotter and hotter and hotter and hotter. Yeah. Hotter and hotter and we look enviously down at the Enderbeites floating down the river with our slingshots at the ready, ready to pop their tubes.

I'll never be done in my heart. I'll be on the big B.C. Scookum, big Scookum B.C. Whatever the fuck it's called. Till I die. Vaping kills your brain. Don't do it, kids. If one were to do that, which no one here is. We got lucky that our passing through town coincided with the

South Enderby Flea Market, where you can pick up an Alfred Hitchcock DVD for the physical media diehard in your life. Are these yours? Yes. May I pay you for this DVD? Yes, please. Here you are, my friend. Thank you.

Thank you. Wonderful. Getting all my Christmas shopping done in Enderby. A Winnipeg Jets jersey. Hell yeah. Does it fit? I haven't tried it on yet, but I think it's going to be perfect. Sweet.

How much was it? Porting the bucks. That's not bad. That's not bad. Where'd you get it over there? And you got some bad neck? Damn. Good day at the flea market.

A lapel pin to show your love. I got a little something per everybody. This one's for you. What is it? It's a little pin. Oh, dear. I used to collect it when I was in. Oh, lovely.

Was it super host? Thank you. Very, very sweet. That's perfect. or a decorative egg of your dreams. Do we think I should go and spend $10 for a Franklin Mint egg that may appreciate value? I looked online at like the... Are you investing?

I looked online at the eBay and like complete sets go for like 200 bucks. How much two individual ones go for you? Don't know, that's the thing. Yeah. But I've always wanted to say I had a fabricier egg. This is the egg. That's cute, right? I think I should get it.

I think I should get it. I think I should get matches in our apartment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's beautiful. Excuse me. May I have this egg, please and thank you. Mm-hmm.

And at the South Enderby flea market, when you commit an unthinkable faux pot at the checkout, there's always a forgiving community to lift you up and remind you that everybody's human. What brought you out to Enderby? Um, a guy. It's not always the way. Thank you very much. Here's my 10.

Are you still with the man in question? No. Forget about him. Oh, don't forget about him. I'm so sorry. I apologize. I apologize. Yeah, for sure. We were together for 40 minutes.

How lovely. Well, my condolences, and I'm glad to hear that the move out to Ender B was a good one for you then. Oh, good. And thank you very much for this shirt. I'm delighted. Okay, all right. Take care. This is the worst one you'll ever here.

What's that? I hadn't seen a buddy of mine in a long time. Mm-hmm. Finally saw him. He's got an eye patch on. Okay. Unlike that, he's a totally funny now. One of the funniest guys I've ever known.

Yeah. Like, hey, what's going on with the iPatch? You'll be a pirate today? Yeah. Oh, I have a great cat. Oh, no. I'm like, all the fucks are I'm excited. Like, honestly God, that's the worst one.

You've made me feel a little bit better about myself. You've made me feel a bit better about myself. A nightmare. I needed to cleanse myself of that shameful interaction by being baptized in the incomparable evening atmosphere of Canada's party capital. Welcome to Colonna off. West Coast Yeah Colona baby

Best place in the world right here Cologne Pondia Colonna phoneia Colonna phone ya Colomnia Colomia Colomia

Colomia Colonna phone ia Colonna phone you A phone ya Hey, aye, I just come to the potty Colanifona A and this is how we play Hold up

Wait a minute Let me put a little bit of west up in it That song is Colonnafornia by Dala Dee featuring Professional in Philly the Kid A piece of musical iconography that truly captures the rowdy energy of the lakeside Okanagan University town We rolled in during a Saturday street fair And I was instantly captivated by the vibrant energy

People were out enjoying themselves The air was hot It felt like summer Yeah, it felt like summer. Yeah. Beautiful Klonafornia, man, looking good. Yeah, it's like an earl, like a big extended earl. Yeah, like the entire town is Earl.

You can't, you can't say that. You can't say that about Klonifornia. For our American listeners, Earls is a Canadian chain restaurant where you go to eat $22 chicken strips and get served boozy slushies by beautiful 21-year-olds who are dating the 33-year-old line cooks. If there can be any doubt that Josie is a true Canadian, that devastating read should put the question to bed. Cologne, Afonia, Afonia. It is like a big

girls. That's such a fucked up and accurate observation to make. A suit, you could say. Yeah. Ogopogo Giffland. Oh go pogo gift land. Come on now. This is heaven. Is this not the best place in Canada? It's not until listening back that I realize how Giddy, even hyper the primordial pull of Kelowna was making me. Here's me taking on a sidewalk chalk hop scotch, where the squares had been replaced with delicious Okanagan cherries. Thank you. Clim the tree.

Did we climb the tree? Jump on the cherries. This is... Oh, there's not like our tree in Florida. Yeah, like this. Ready set, go. No! I fifted it! I gotta do it again! I got to do it again! I've got to do it again! I've got to do it.

Yes, cherry hot scotch. But it's like, it's kind of like, oh, ho, ho, ho! It's like tiger practice hot scotch! That's all, good job, let's go! Thank you. That was a dude on an electric skateboard pounding knuckles with me. He had a vape in his fist. Colonia! Let's do it! Given that Kelowna is, as we've established, a large earls, we naturally found a patio to enjoy some personal pizzas and sample the local beverages.

So this is a slackwater brewing Headwaters Pilsner. The ingredients are barley, water, yeast, saze, and mithelphruhe hops. Saz? Yes, a Z. Okay. I have never, a word I've not heard before. Yeah, fresh. It actually is, I think, like, a Canadian point of pride that Americans drink weaker beer than we do.

The idea, I think, is that, like, by drinking stronger beer, it means that we ourselves are stronger. Which we are. But also, I think there's, like, the idea that light beer is, like, a frat boys beer. It's, like, a beer that you kind of drink to get wasted in large volume. Right, yeah. Am I mistaken of this? Right. I mean, no, I think that's true, because you're like, don't get full as fast.

But, I mean, I get, like, when I remove the partisanship from it, I get the idea of, like, less calories, less filling. Like, that's kind of nice. Beer is kind of filling. No. Josie, where do you stand on the light beer issue? Maybe it's the San Diego smoothieiness, but I, I like the craft beer. Yeah? I like, like, like, it can be, like, kind of wild and, like, like, like.

passion for it but do you like an IPA no I feel like we really reached a point of IPA saturation around the time when we were all in college where like you actually couldn't yeah yeah or like Williamsburg or whatever and especially because VC has Vancouver has such a big brewery culture I feel like there's a while there where you couldn't get a beer that you didn't have to chew to swallow and it wasn't my scene No. I like a pale ale. Yeah?

I like an amber or a red ale very much. Yeah? I like also that sours have become such a thing because sometimes in the summer what I want is beautiful. It's like cheese. Yeah? But yeah, mostly I'm like, I like a filter or like a San Adam. There's 33 acres of California common.

I don't know what that beer actually is in the beer taxonomy. But it reminds me of the beer that my dad would drink. was like that's what we're all chasing and it would like you'd let me take a sip of the foam when I was like six five oh thank you very much thank you so much and um switch that out for you oh that's really you're so oh what a we're well taken care of here at anti-cooked pizza no oh mine mine is the wind oh yeah we got nothing left to dip them in please I mean hey I'm not going to judge if you want to do it yeah the last thing in the Honey was definitely my finger.

Yeah. Yeah. No, they're honestly so well. The hot honey is so good. Yeah, it's delicious. Thank you. Ooh, boozy patio, urban distilleries. Let's get fucked up.

Let's get fucking wasted jersey. Where are we sleeping? Colon, Afonia, Afonia, Afonia, Afonia, oh. If I was already overstimulated by the city's festive ambiance and the uniformly excellent, friendly service rendered by young blonde women, I was soon about to encounter an even more sumptuous feast for my senses, Ogopogo Giftland.

Where's the Okopogo stuff? There has to be a no, it's the Ogopogo gift store. Oh, wow. Only 9.95. You know my birthday is coming out. Yes! We've talked about Ogo Pogo a few times before on the podcast, including back in episode 130 when we kicked off the road trip, but in case you need reminding, Ogo Pogo is the local

equivalent to the Loch Ness Monster, a sea serpent who lives in Okanagan Lake. Accounts of lake monsters date back to the spiritual figures of the Seah Elch Okanagan, continue and get reframed as cryptid sightings by European settlers, and then at some point he gets named Ogo Pogo and turns into a cuddly green tourist attraction. There's probably a deeper metaphor there about Canada's interaction with indigenous culture. Following that logic, there's something deceptively dark about this character being the mascot for a souvenir store where you can buy obscene novelty shot glasses. I don't think too much. Do you want to, do you want the one that says drunk one or bitch one? Josie, can I buy you that?

Yo, can we buy bitch one and bitch two? Let's do it. Is there a three? break in my suitcase no it won't we have to get these for each other that's extremely funny please please bitch one and bitch two or bitch one bitch one bitch one I think bitch is funnier I know bitch you would be perfect we need to ask excuse me do you have bitch three because the real indignity is being bitch too you know I know who gets bitch I'll be bitch too because you come first when we do like Josie and Taylor You come first, you can first.

Get bitch one and bitch two. That's a riot. I'm so excited. I know. We want to get this. No. We saw that there was one, two, and we were running for three. We know there was drunk three.

Yes. We want bitch three, yes. We don't be up there. No, we want bitch three. My apologies for swearing so loudly. in your store. Fortunately, and or unfortunately, there was no Bich 3 shock glass, but that didn't stop us from enjoying the evening, including an ice cream, which was Taylor's third of the day, way to go

Taylor's guts, and an open-air concert, including the cover of Jumerico's virtual insanity that you're hearing in the background right now. But we did need a place to stay, and it turns out every spot in Colonna was full. So we ended up in the nearby, town of a Soyuz, where, thanks to the generosity of Lucia's parents, we were able to check into a hotel to rest our heads and take a proper shower. We really can't thank you enough, Victoria and Tony. It was getting a little desperate there at the end of the night as each Kelowna hotel was full, so it was such a gift to have a place to stay. Thank you, thank you. We do wish we could have stayed longer, but even getting in so late, we weren't done celebrating

just yet. It may not have been the colonia extravaganza all night, last night of the road trip, let's get fucked up and double down on that hopscotch kind of night that he was hoping for, but we still wanted to give Taylor something small to celebrate his upcoming birthday. Oh my god. It's a birthday, birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear Taylor. That's me.

Happy birthday to you. Thank you very much for this candle on a flask of fireball. Yeah, we thought you might like that. They didn't. Right, let me make a good wish here. Yeah, make a really good one. So you have some happy birthday sunglasses to wear whatever you need. Yeah, you already saw them in the car.

Ooh, they look good on you. Thank you. They really do. Frame case. They do. They're two big birthday cakes and nice. And then this is a sparkly jellybelly. Yeah.

Thank you. No, there's no, there's no subtext in it. It's just, it's just. Well, I thought the car might smell and it does, but we'll be out of it tomorrow. Try to stick a candle on a straight and narrow, but it didn't work at all. Too cold. No, that's, that's, you need something hot. You need something hot like very well.

Exactly. Yeah. Does anybody want a rosemary? Great fruit rosemary? You know what? What? Yeah. Are the rhubb pear?

I might grab the cider. Or the cider? I'll have the, I'll have a drink. I wasn't planning when drinking, but since it's my birthday, I'll have the rhubarb pair. Okay. And then I'll probably call it a night. Okay, that's fair.

I got my drinking done in Colona like the best of us do. We ended our last complete day of the road trip Around the table on the patio Taking in the hot night air I did think that it was kind of weirdly striking in its way As cool as it would have been To have seen like Okanog and wine country

And it's full glory during the day There was something cool about like winding in at night With the kind of the glow of the high beams And like just these kind of like endless corridors To the left and right That were comprised of these like I guess stalks of grapes that you could just like at any point, just like if you were walking up the road on one of these kind of weird lonely nights, you could just pivot left and walk into the roads of these vineries if you wanted.

There's nothing stopping you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see some in the light of day tomorrow, I think, too. I'm sure there'll be a few. It's a cool.

It's, and now, like you say, there is something very, like, siltry about these hot winds in this courtyard and, like, the sound of a single leaf blowing across the patio behind us, right? you know yeah the wind's like moving this I don't know if it's ivy but it's some vining plant that's that's winding up the wall of this courtyard and it's very picturesque as the leaves sort of blink between light and dark you got any poetic observations Josie did you like the drive I know that you had you had specifically requested not to drive at night And yeah, that's where we found ourselves This most recent Lake of the Chow

It was good, it was good Driving a night on road trips is always like No, no, no, we won't do that And then it's like Yeah, let me get an ice cream And I want to, wait, I want to see the sunset Over this little town where we're not staying No, it's true, it's got, it's vibe down here

Yeah Can you hear that, uh, maybe a cicada or cricket or something? Yeah I think in the last hour of driving, we also saw our first sign that listed the distance to Vancouver. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh.

We started out the next day with some breakfast in a Soyuz before we hit the road. We got so into the small town vibe. We even held a bit of court like the old guys that gather at 5 a.m. at the corner diner to talk politics. We were chatting about the current political climate between Canada and the U.S. over our iced Canadianos at the sweet local coffee shop. We're currently at Gino's Cafe in Soyos. Whoa. This all of a goddess is blowing my dick off.

Wow. You heard it here first. Let's put that on Yelp. From Lucy M. My coffee shop name. And we should also say this place used to be called Jojo's Cafe, but there was a young man named Gino de Ross, who passed away accounts, certainly renamed the whole joint after him and put a bunch of nice

photos of him up. It's so sweet. I think it's a really nice way to preserve someone's memory and in a way that's relevant to the community, right? Because you saw everyone was, we were all lined up for our morning coffee, so everyone can come here and think of, you know, I think that's quite nice. One of those nice things about small town, Canada. I'm sure you could find it in small town America, too.

You know what I mean? People matter. I don't think it would be this nice, though. The avocado toast would be so good. your dick would be firmly fast and I did lose my straw and my drink and I said oh no I need help and apparently everybody behind the till turned yeah at least one person just turned out and like gave you like a really good concerned look for four seconds before they realized that what you needed help with was fishing your straw out of your drink and you had two people already helping you it's nice here

you know as the as the plaque on the bar of the coffee shop said The good thing about a soy is that if you don't know what you're doing, someone else does. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's the other thing about small towns, huh? Mm-hmm. Before I start praising, I'm too highly. Get a little bit in your business.

Mm-hmm. Just a small town, brh. And I just had a really, the Nana's waffle was also very good, and I'm enjoying my iced Canadiano. Yeah, you've been hitting the Canadianos. Got to support loco, you know what I mean? Yeah. It's funny because... Stick it to the American.

somehow question mark. I remember moving, when I moved up to Canada in 2008, there were still quite a few Canadianos around on menus. Really? Yeah, because I think it was like, you know, seven years post 9-11 and, uh, not because 9-11 made fun of, like, fly away home or what? Like, I think, well, maybe, maybe I've made a spurious connection because I think after in the States, there was all of the, like, freedom fries.

Yes, definitely. And, you know. And tiny American flags. Wait, what is the call for? And this is, I mean, we're doing that same thing kind of more or less. right now because there's a tiny Canadian flag right next to you and we are calling them Canadianos. But I think it feels like this push towards like buying Canadian, Canadian made things, calling the Americano Canadiano. Elbows up. That sort of like defensive hockey slogan

that we've adopted. Yeah. It's like a anti-fascist nationalism, which is a strange pairing, but you know, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. So, well, I mean, especially, and this is something that we talk about a lot, especially when you consider, like, Canada's own history. We're not always covered in glory, and in fact, frequently not, especially when it comes to our treatment of our indigenous peoples, other, other groups. But yeah, it's a weird time, too, where we're like, whatever, this particular type of nationalism doesn't seem to have turned yet. Yeah, right, so long may that last. As much as we wanted to commit ourselves to the nomadic life we'd been accustomed to, we did have to get back to our regularly scheduled lives, which for Taylor meant another

trip to the Yukon with Ruby. We'll hear more about that later in the next episode. How are you feeling about headed back home at the end of this? I'm really excited to see Mitchell. Of course. I'm back now. Notice the order has now changed. Also, I've just like... I really liked this trip Yeah, this has been exactly what I wanted and needed

Thank you very much No, thank you very much And I'm right there with you Because they're Like I've had this feeling before We're traveling where you just feel kind of like So disconnected sometimes And it's fun and it can be a bit alienating almost

But alienating yeah But I realize like I can just like reach out And like you guys are there Yeah And it's like oh well Okay Like I'm kind of that well is not like

like or that like tank is not empty you know what I mean yeah for sure I feel like I could keep going yeah no so this is what I propose yeah come to the Yukon Rurie coaches his flight but we starting today yeah just drive north yeah come into it ready yeah we hit the road for the day but just as quickly hit our first distraction a roadside lake seemingly covered in polka dots This is actually called Spotted Lake. It gets its distinctive spots from the evaporation of minerals, and it's a site of significance for both the local ecosystem

and the local Seal of Okanagan First Nations. We just pulled off to the side of the highway here to take a look at a really cool, natural wonder that kind of popped out of the corners of our eye. It's called Spotted Lake, and it's a sacred medicine lake for the Seal of Okanagan people. Josie, how would you describe the lake to look at it? It looks like maybe a dried lake bed with these tiny ponds throughout it.

And each one is a slightly different color. Some are like a real golden rod and then others are a bit more beige and kind of ranging between that and the land between it is like a gray, black to white. Yeah, it's very beautiful. It's almost like otherworldly. It's like almost like a bit Martian in its ethos. I like it or a bit plutonian. And one of the spots is shaped like a heart.

Oh, indeed it is. Look at that one right there. It's real sweet. It's a defined heart. Yeah. One of the 365 spots. So if you wanted, you could come back and do a spot a day. And I'm kind of due to my skin condition. I'm covered in spots right now.

So it makes me feel a bit more beautiful looking at this lake. Aww! That's cute. Thank you. I'm no spotted lake, but... Do you see any kind of tearing up? Well, we'll take that. Hopefully my spots clear up with these don't.

These should stick around. I like these. We kept heading west toward home, but, surprise, surprise, we weren't too interested in taking a straight shot. The small towns were just too enticing. First, Lucia had the good fortune to find her sought after pit viper sunglasses at a local gas station. Bringing with some slats over there, too, if you wanted. Oh, you got them? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I like the splat. But I think, you know, I like this shape. Yeah, yeah, it's got the top kind of kind of birthing. Did you see? Yeah, I'm good. Thanks so much. I like you know this. Shall it?

Let's do it. Hit Vipers have been acquired. Yeah. We're knocking off our missions, man. And then we stopped in Karamios, a village, really, where we popped in to a local shop. Fish and Shipper Triumph Shop. Dang. You would think that would be a fish and chips restaurant?

I was thinking. But no. And look at that. We came just in time because it's only open weekends, 10 to 3,000. open weekends 10 to 3. That's good. There's muggy out there, but... It's a bit muggy.

But we're dressed for it, so it's okay. There you are, yeah. Oh, my grandma would have loved this. This was so her style. The wooden figurine. Yeah. That's very much the kind of thing she was in to decor-wise. She loved it.

Ooh, bolo ties. At the Curiosity Shop, I snagged some sick vintage 1970s teacups and chatted with the shop owner, a tea leaf and tarot card reader named Kelly, who gave us some advice. I always go near the water sometimes, you know, because the water is a cleanser, just like crystals. You guys should have crystals when you're traveling. Yeah. And you need a grounding stone by the way. Oh, why?

Well, because it's like when you're traveling, it's a protective. Oh, what's your birthday? August 24th. You're an agate, I think. Okay. And so you can get a blue lace agate or you can get just an actual agate. Okay, good to know. But it always has to be on a silver chain.

A butterfly, if you ever watch a butterfly, they land here, they land here, they land here. You can be a butterfly sometimes. Thank you. No, it's a good thing. No, I'm happy. But you fly everywhere, but eventually you find the right place you want to land. Like a butterfly. Yep, absolutely.

But anyway, let's lie. Thank you very much. Not at all. That's the joy of running the Curio shop, isn't it? And who doesn't like to be told about, like to hear about themselves? Exactly. And complimented our collective vibe. All good energy. It's funny because you're all three different. Oh, that's true. No, we are.

You feed off of each other. Yeah. You can help you, you help her, vice of us. Yeah. It's just kind of a really good thing. Yeah. Thank you. That's really kind. And I know that you were just making your observations, but I receive them with great kindness and care.

Thank you. No, they're all good. They're all positive. You guys are very positive and not just saying it because you're in my shop. I'm being honest, you're very, very positive. Anyway, well, you travel safe and I'll see you again one day. Sweet. Next time I'm in Karamiyos and I said, is there an 80-year-old lady who looks 40 around here?

I'll come and find you. Oh, you all smoothie. Ah, that's my butterfly tendencies. You know how I add. Thank you very much. And we've had a lovely time and thank you for the combo and thank you for the mugs. Travel safe. Feeling seen and good about the positive.

and good about the positive energy we put into the world, we made our way just a little further down the road to what this area of the Okanagan is most known for. Fruit. The road is lined with stands selling stone fruits and veggies and honey and cherries and homemade sauces and serps, you name it. We perused the goods and Taylor went to purchase some honey sticks and, unsurprisingly, made a friend at the till. I better get a couple. i better get a couple just you you raise a good point my friend like one two and then what flavor is this one a few years ago i was over at camel river uh at a lake uh i forget the shanagan

lake i think it was yep and there was uh three french couples over there young people yep and i went down the lake it's fucking cold as lakes will be up i go into the water and they put their feet in and stuff like we're not going and i'm going i'm over 60 yeah yeah And, of course, they knew they were from France and stuff like that, and go, you know what? When you get home and stuff, you go kick yourself in the ass for not coming and swimming in this lake because you were here. You could say that, and they go, so they went up and got all their rigging and came back. Absolutely. Yeah.

That's where I am. We've been doing a provincial and national parks on our trip here, and I've been that everywhere. I'm like, well, when will I be back in Glacier National Park? I better get in this freezing cold river. Thank you very much, my friend. Cheers. That's good. What do you want to read see?

Sure. I remember remind myself where I've been. I got us. Honey sticks. Honey energy sticks. One for each. It's peach, lemon, and blackberry. But you get peach.

I'll take peach. Yeah, do you want lemon or blackberry? Our next stop was Princeton, B.C. A river town with great tubing that's near and dear to my heart, mainly because I always end up stopping to use the bathroom at the information center when I'm passing through town. The Infocenter has gotten a glow up since my last visit, including a fab gift shop, where I got that agate Kelly recommended and a brand new copy of the coffee news. So I grabbed a copy of the coffee news, which is one of my favorite readables that you find in

BC, and it has like different, basically it's an excuse for folks to advertise locally, which is grand, and there's like a lot of, in this issue, there's a lot of shop locally by Canadian, you know, as things are kind of going here. And then in the middle it has a lot of like here's some fun fact here's some quotable quotes some trivia that sort of thing horoscopes so I've I've said before I'm not a fan of public proposals and I would probably turn down a public proposal but by one exception is if someone proposed to me in the coffee news then I would say yes I've said this since for like 10 years now I've been saying this Here's a quote from Kierkegaard.

To dare is to lose one's footing momentarily, not to dare is to lose oneself. Yeah? It sounds like weird. Yeah, sound advice. As much as we could go on about the coffee news, the beautiful BC sites weren't quite done with us yet. So we're stopped off at the side of the road, not only because we needed to use the bathroom, And not only because we were listening to Bright Eyes and it was making me cry

a lot. But... We had tissues. We didn't leave those. Yeah, no, sweet. We're stopped at a... What is this? Like, the Hope Slide?

The Hope City. And it's a big rock slide that took place a boat. Yeah, almost 60 years ago now. A little more. More than 60 years ago now. And it covered up a big lake and there's a big rock slide

here at a rest stop point. Yeah, it's pretty wild. There's something about standing, like, next to the slide and looking up at the mountain. And we've been, I don't know, we've been driving through, like, scenery that has this kind of awesome, majestic, kind of hard to comprehend it. It's so vast scale. Yeah. Yeah. And there's something about being able to see that this mountainside is sheared off and slid down and you can see all the rubble and kind of the volume.

Yeah. That is really ringing. It's humbling. It's a million cubic meters. Yeah. Volume-wide. But it's, yeah, it's quite a, quite a slide. Yeah.

Right a slide. And there's a big graffiti on one of the rocks that says life's better when your phones did. Which has been the case. It's true facts, yeah. And I got to say, I just came back from the bathroom and there's nothing like feeling the wind up the pit toilet. Oh, baby. Up into your butt. Yeah.

That's the hope. That's why they call it hope. That's the hope entering your body. Now that I had my agate, we needed to get to some water, so he didn't Kelly's advice, we turned off Highway 1 to Harrison Lake, nestled in the seaside resort community of Harrison Hot Springs. How's the water? We'd spent so much time in the water, it only felt natural to take one last dip. We couldn't stay long, though. Home beckoned.

We were losing daylight, so we snagged dinner on the road. Last meal of the trip Triple O's This is the The drive-through version of White Spot Which we've sort of talked about On the podcast before As a BC food chain of note

What everyone get? I got a strawberry milkshake Which I maintain is the best Of the white spot milkshakes And then I got the dip in chicken And some fries How about you? Yeah, Josie

The honey mustard crunch sandwich so a chicken honey mustard situation and then i got um some fries their garlic parmesan fries and a blueberry shake which was the special wow and i got a cod burger mm-hmm not a cod taco as distinct from a cod taco cod burgers when you put it between the cheeks yeah and uh fried pickle chips um since i can't eat nice shades can't do the potates but really i'm amazed that they have this option and then a blueberry milkshake because they don't always have them. It's a special and I love them and I love a summer berry milkshake. I was hoping we'd run into one on this very trip and here we are.

There you go. Okay. I'm gonna have a couple bites of sand and then enjoy. And we can chew it and boot it. Yeah. Let's get skookin. Let's get fucking skukum. Of course, when we were at our stinkiest, our most tired, our most eager to be home and in bed, we ran into some of the worst traffic on the trip. The traffic jam wasn't so bad because the company was good, and speaking of company, misery loves it, and we at least knew that Rui and their mom were in a rental somewhere in the traffic behind us. And then I think in front of us, as they took more advantageous routes than we did.

In any case, cargo delivered safely from Shambola. Thanks for coming on the trip, Rui. See in the Yukon. For the last chunk of the evening, we snail-paste it through Abbotsford, and slowly the highway widened and became more and more recognizably city-scaped as we approached Vancouver and Lucia's tree-lined street. In Lucia's back alley, we did the monumental task of unpacking the car one last time. This yellow tent is Ruiz. Oh, this bad chocolate. Can I just throw this away? I'll take it. Do you want it? Oh my God, that shitty chocolate? Yeah. That's Ruiz chocolate, right?

Yeah. Give it to me because it's shitty, but it's kind of these. Okay. You know? I'll put it. I think this is yours. Put it in a, put it. Yeah, that's fine. And the eggs. And the eggs. And the eggs. Um, what does the fox say? And then it was time to say our bittersweet goodbyes. My flight home to Houston left the next day. So this was not only the goodbye of the road trip, but a goodbye that would have to sustain us until Taylor and I see each other in person next, whenever that may be. All right, well, thank you so much for your patronage of the Big Skugan B.C. Road trip, Lucia. Thank you again for all your excellent driving. Thank you for getting my grandma's

sweater and my mattress and so on that. You drove? Most of it. Yeah. And for your initiative in taking that route. Josie, thank you so much for your driving as well and for coming up and being and enjoying and having fun. And don't fucking tire, guys. Yeah. Thank you for planning so much. Getting the idea together at all. Yeah, spearheading the whole fucking endeavor. Thank you for having me a long.

You're so charming. Thank you, wow. Your tie-dye looks really good. Lucia, you're such a like Lisa. Thank you. Being the ambassador of the group in every town. I know, really, yeah. Also just was like such a treat to get to spend your week before.

You too. Luchio was really nice to get to know you a bit better, honestly. I think you got a lot in common. You're a top chef, Jen. You too. The cockles of my heart. All right, bring you one, big skukum, bittersweet, brew hug.

Oh, really good job, everyone. Good job, y'all. Love you as all. Here's your travel table. Thank you. Get the hell out of my sight. Hello. Josie, I'll see you in the podcast.

Litchie you'll see around Vancouver, and I owe you both a French boyfriend hat. I'll make sure that you get it. I can't wait. We'll see you for round two. Yeah. Two skukum. Baby two skukum, baby.

Bye. Get home safe. Two, one. More. Mo, ma, ma, ma, ma, ma, and with that. And with that, we draw the big skucum B.C. Road trip to a close. We've still got an infamous story yet to come, though. So let's head back

to the studio one last time. Well, everyone, we've nearly completed the big Skookum BC Road trip. The fast food bags have piled up on the floor. A&W because it's a Canadian brand. Tim Horton's not so much despite the marketing. Huh, yeah. White spot? Oh yeah. Come on now. Nat Bailey. Come on. We are looking forward to the sweet embrace of warm actual bed. We're less looking forward to the deluge of work emails that we've been ignoring to do this together. But either way, whether it's bitter that it's over or sweet that it happened, we've got one more big, infamous BC story to send us off. Josie, will you do the honors? I would love to.

I'm already feeling nostalgic for something that hasn't even yet happened. And so you did good. Thanks for the intro. Nice. Now finish the job. No, pressure. Taylor, I want to take you east, if you can imagine. So we've just been east out of the time loop, but I'm glad to be back.

We're back in the eastern time loop, if you will. But further back, 2001. Wow. BC or? We are in British Columbia, but it is. Ah, true, true. We thought that we have to be very clear, BCE, let's say that, before current era. 2001, Nelson, we're in the town of Nelson.

Sure. We're in Justice Mark McEwen's British Columbia Supreme Court. And about to take the stand is a very frail old woman. And usually I would caveat and be like, old is relative. She old? She, oh, she 81. That's no, I, you were selling her like she was 105 there a bit. And she's been fasting for a few.

weeks. Fuck. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that confounds issues, doesn't it? Fasting makes you a little older. And she's wearing a kind of curious white robe that seems, I don't know, unofficial for this situation, perhaps, but also perhaps, kind of flimsy, maybe.

Okay. She takes the stand and pulls a string at the top collar of her robe. Okay. Doing so, the robe drops. Okay. Slum it to the floor of the witness stand. Yeah. And Mary Braun, 81 years old, on trial for arson, not her first conviction.

Oh, damn. Is sitting naked in the witness stand to give her testimony. Fuck. Yep. Mary, put on a sweater. Have a cup of tea. So Mary Braun in the summer of 2001, she, She set out from her rented apartment that was across the street from Crescent Valley Community College.

She walked over, similarly disrobed, full nakey. Fullnakey. And set fire to the Crescent Valley Community College computer lab. Damn. Yes. Shit. When she said she wanted to burn a CD, we didn't know. The instructions were not clear enough.

Emilia Bedelia burn this CD. Damn, okay. That's the case. You have my attention. Yes. As the flames lap into that beautiful British Columbia sky, the wind cloaks her entire body. Wow. No one was hurt in the fire, thank goodness.

But it did cause $350,000 worth of damage to the community college. All those computers. All those computers. Mary Braun was one of the last. active members of the Freedomite sect, also known as the Sons of Freedom. And she was convicted August 30th of setting fire to this community college, which she fully admitted to doing because it was a protest of governmental education. The government.

The government. And this does, this resonates with your story, the BC government in particular. Right from Eddie Heymore and Rattlesnake Island. The Sons of Freedom, also known as Freedomites, as I mentioned, they took up residence in various small mining towns and lumber towns of Eastern British Columbia. So throughout the Kootenai, there are many of them. Yes. Throughout the Kootenai region, the Kootenai Mountain region. The Sons of Freedom believe that salvation lies and the rejection of property through fire.

That checks out. Yeah. They frequently appear naked. That checks out. in protest and in court when facing their charges, as they believe that nudity is the purest state of being. I do take issue with the, I guess, like, Western society's prudishness about the human body, let's call it. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's a very fair thought. I don't know if I would get my hooters out in court. That's a different thought.

There's a different thought, yeah. Now, the Sons of Freedom are a very small and infamous sect of another small. religious group, the duke-a-boors. Don't know them. All right. That was a question for me because I was like, maybe somewhere in BC education this came across, but... Nope. Nope.

We don't talk about the duke-a-bois in great love and socials. So the duke-a-bors are a religious sect who immigrated here from Russia in 1899. Okay. And by here, I mean to Canada and then a little bit after that, specifically to this Kootenie region. And I want to make a very careful distinction here because the duke-a-bors are a religious-minded, minority in British Columbia. And then even smaller from that is the Sons of Freedom or the Freedomites. And they are connected in that Sons of Freedom came from the Dukabors.

Dukabors different from Sons of Freedom. Sure. As you can imagine, there's some bad press around the Niki Fire situation. You know, I get it. I do understand. So just making sure that when you think Dukabors, you're not thinking, you know, Hooters fire, all that, especially because the Dukobors were and are a pacifist Christian sect that took part in this mass migration from Russia due to religious persecution in imperialist Russia. Sure.

So they came to Canada and these sons of freedom splintered off such that they, in a way that, you know, factions do, saw themselves as the true believers. Yeah. Rather than the corrupted duke-a-bors. There's so many only true believers, you know? Yeah, right? It's interesting. I mean, I'm a true believer, but...

The only one. The only one. In fact. And the Sons of Freedom had such a contentious relationship with the BC government for various reasons, setting a light, you know, communal property and such. That W.A.C. Bennett is up to no good. That's what I say. Yeah, we know that.

But it was such a contentious relationship that after one particularly infamous protest, nude protest, adults were arrested, and their children were then taken to a specialized school in an abandoned tuberculosis sanatorium. Okay. And they were kept there through the course of six years. It was a specific school designed for the Freedomite children. And who's keeping them there? The BC government. Might ring some bells of other Canadian, of other blunders upon Canadian history. Various camps, schools, et cetera, that we sectioned people into throughout the course of our history.

There's a lot to the story, Taylor. Yeah, it sounds like it. We've got some terrorist bombs as well. Okay. A nice little overlap there. Sure. Naky protesters. Naky protesters, yeah.

Arson up the wazoo. Literally because they're naked. Tolstoy makes a cameo. Oh, I love the Russians. Yeah. Great literature. Taylor, you got to buckle up. because we are road-tripping to the Kootenys.

Yeah, get that, get your overalls. Overall buckle. We're road-tripping to the Kootenys. Take me there, Mama. Let's go. And you know we're going to the Kootenys. You made the PowerPoint. Yeah, I put us there myself.

Yeah. We're going to head there in spirit. Okay. Let's start with a little bit more about the Dukabors themselves. We know they came from Russia, specifically southern Russia, and they were known for their radical pacivism, which in imperialist Russia, you know, mid-1800s into late 1800s, the Tsars were not stoked that folks were not willing to bear arms for them.

So there was a lot of pushback. They were moved around Russia to various locations. Not only were they pacifists, but they had some differences from the Orthodox Russian church that also kind of pissed a few of the religious figures off. Organized religion. Everything they had was passed down through an oral tradition. So that meant that the Bible was orally transmitted through Psalms and hymns. And so, you know, there was no book.

It was all contained with, I know, right? But it's also this kind of a Protestant, I suppose, interpretation of religious sanctity that you, the individual contains the holiness. Sure. And you don't need an intermediary of a fancy. church or a priest who's going to tell you all of it to do. Some index cards, though. Right. You know what I mean? A note tap. It's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. That is why they, I think why they put so much of it into song, though. There's a lot of synonyx. You can remember, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Fanboys. Roe G. Bev. Oh, that's a good one. Roe G. Biv. I think I was a kid. I thought I

invented Roy G. Bibb. I think I just stumbled on something pretty obvious. Well, we'll, we'll cite you. Thank you. In conjunction with that, no fancy churches. The only symbology that they use, I'll use the present tense because numbers are smaller, but it's still happening. There's like Bindy Johal, they're still around, bitch. Yeah. Got it. So religious symbols that they do have incorporate bread, salt, and water, which represents the elements that sustain life.

So very like bare bones, keep it simple. What keeps you afloat in this world? bread, salt, and water. In that vein, they did not revere their chosen leaders as direct from God, but they also listened very closely to their chosen leaders who were speaking on behalf of God. Yeah, okay, okay. Don't go into your organized religion thing, Taylor. Just listen to Josie's story.

Just listen to your tell it. That's what I think. As a small religious sect with, you know, the big scary Russian government, breathing down there next. I'm sure a leader did come in handy. Well, you want to negotiate with Stalin, don't you? Yes, exactly. Yeah. A czar. Yeah. The czar. Yes. And that's actually where they got their name, the Dukabors. So in 1785, there was a Orthodox Russian archbishop who decided to call them Dukabors, which translates roughly to spirit wrestlers. Fun. Yeah, which I thought you would really like. Yeah. We love the figure four leglock of the

soul, you know, it's important. And the Archbishop meant by it that these folks were contentious and against the Holy Spirit and, you know, at odds with their God warriors. Exactly, right? And they, they understood it that way. They understood it as. They're like, thank you. Wrestling for and with the spirit.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I'm in constant question and struggle with my own belief and understanding. And as any person of faith should be, once you think you've got it all figured, oh, that's when you need to start changing your questions. As they were forced to move throughout southern Russia, you know, you can't be here. No, we want you over here. No, no, da, da, da, da. They found a leader who really saved their bacon once or twice, a female leader, which was of note. It wasn't necessarily a matriarchical society, but Luceria Salmikova did prove to be a very useful leader.

Now, her adopted son was a man named Peter Vergan. And later, he's called Peter Gospodi, which translates to the Lordly. So that question of, like, religious leader, you know, well, we don't revere them, but we love them to death, you know. Religions give us structures, and structures give us opportunities to seize power and influence within those structures, right? Yeah. It's only human. Yeah, it is. It is only human.

Peter, he takes over the leadership of the group from his mother. And as the majority leader, the Russian government exiles him to Siberia. Fuck. Yes. The buck stops here. Yeah. All the good ones end up in Siberia, yes, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, fuck.

It is during that time in Siberia that Verrigan writes letters to reaffirm some ideas that we'll see them appear later when we talk about what's happening in BC, but some of the things that do get added right away to the group, even though Varigan is often suburbia, those damn Siberian tract houses. Great garbage service, though. Oh, yeah. They're really not. I get it up and out.

HOA is great. So the Dukobores add to their religious beliefs and their daily life. practices, vegetarianism, a commitment to communal living. So everybody owns everything. You all work it together. You all do it together. They also practice abstinence from alcohol. Okay. And I would imagine throwing drugs too. Don't do those either. In Russia too. Yeah. Well, so we got to do it so cold. I know. So, so cold. Also at this time, it's cemented this phrase that becomes very important to duke-a-bors throughout the rest of their history, toil and peaceful life. Okay.

Ho your own, roan, life will be gravy. Yes, exactly. This idea of you work hard, and that creates a peaceful life. And you see this a lot in other agrarian Christian sects, Mennonites, the Amish, it appears a lot. Yeah. But this idea of like, you do the good work to live the good life. A simple life of service. Exactly.

In 1895, when they are called. by the Russian government, the Russian Tsar, to take up arms, they call upon their pacifist beliefs and refuse to do so. In fact, as a show of this, they have the first pacifist protest in modern times where they burn their arms. They rid themselves of the tools that most farmers would think helpful, but considering that these tools could be used to have them fight, Yep. They go ahead and burn them. Sure.

It's called the burning of the arms. And it's actually a ritual that is repeated to this day. And it's distinct from when you accidentally lean over a candle in a restaurant because it's, you know, you're trying to hear what someone's saying and then your sweater. So there was a lot of turmoil with the Russian government. The Dukaburs are burning their guns and there again, their fearless leader is locked up in a track home in Siberia. And from there, he's writing letters to his good buddy, Leo Tolstoy. of writing books fame. Yes.

His biggest novel is more in peace. Okay, that was him. I'm not crazy. Okay, that was him. Literally perhaps his biggest novel. Yeah, perhaps one of the biggest novels. It's a skugam. It's a skookum book.

Yeah. You could put it down to keep your crossword from blowing away as much you could do. And then some. And then some. And if you need the words for your crossword, they're all right there in the book. Each and every one. Some extras, too. Varigan and Tolstoy have this back and forth of communication and it becomes clear that Tolstoy, a pacifist himself, which to be honest, I didn't know.

Yeah, you'd think war and peace. It would just be called peace. Right. I haven't read it. Can't lie. But he's sympathetic to Vergan and the Duke of Boer's goals. And so he helps them raise money. In fact, he gives them all the royalties from the sale of his novel resurrection. Oh, wow. Yeah. So he was a true believer. I don't think he was a Dukabur himself, but he was like, you guys are doing cool things. He believed in the cause.

He went to the coffee. In the way that you might believe in like your younger brother when he's playing softball. You know what? Good for you sport. Yeah. I think it was like, he went to their coffee.com account. Yeah, if we give them $3 a month and I can tell him to, you know, watch the movie Ma. I keep pushing Ma.

It's going to be Ma one of these days. Oh, I can't wait. So with this money, the Ducobores seek religious freedom in Canada. 7,500 arrive on Canadians' west coast at the turn of the century, 1899. Now, Varegan is still in Siberia, but he's able to join them in 1902. 7,500 Ducabors arrive on Canada's west coast, and its largest single mass migration in Canadian history. Wow, I have not heard anything about it. Yeah, I think because most migrations kind of have a trickle effect where, like, people come over a certain amount of time.

But in terms of like 7,500 people all coming in an Uber ride chair, yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. Got it. Exactly. A lot of seatbelts. First, they land in Saskatchewan. They're coming by a boat? They're coming by a boat, but they land somewhere else and go to Saskatchewan.

Okay, thank God. Maybe land is not the word there. First, they homestead. in Saskatchewan. They're out on the prairies. And it's a very harsh climate. They're coming from Russia. But Saskatchewan is a very harsh climate.

Really, these people came from Siberia and they're impressed by Saskatch. That's a little impressive. Didn't know you had it in, you asked. It may be, though, that it wasn't just the harshness of the prairies. The Saskatchewan government was also proving difficult. Ah, there you go.

The Ducobores had gone out there with their religious belief of communal living. But the Saskatchewan government had homestead titles that required them to swear an oath of allegiance. And it required that these entries for homestead titles be done by individuals. So they were rejecting applications that were for the entire community. Right. We need your social insurance number. Right. This is an individualist society. We don't need you like buying up a parcel of land and then seceding question mark like there's there's things to consider yeah yeah it was getting messy verigan had made it out of siberia and over to canada 1902 and he was looking around and said let's get out of the prairies this is uh-uh i know where

we're going to go we're going to go to british columbia baby oh yeah tall cheese yeah exactly supernatural yeah none of these endless skies that go on forever you look you see a damn mountain as it should be or an ocean or an ocean or something got them both science world you know something give up something exactly so varigan led his followers to southern british Columbia and he bought land under his own name but things have been smoothed over i guess enough within the community that they decided that it would be in his name but all six thousand people of the community would agree to own it communally. The outsider government was just going to say Peter Varigan. Right. But we know the truth. We know the truth. And things were going pretty well. Okay.

The Dukobors were and are excellent farmers. So they were springing orchards up out of the Kootenai region. They were farming. And in fact, at a certain point, the government was so thrilled to have them because they were making the land arable. And in that way, in the beginning, the government was happy to sign that lease for them, happy to have them homestead, very happy and welcoming to them because they were able to homestead efficiently and in line with what the government wanted. Yes, yes. But they were so, and it proved true through the years, in 1913, 100 Dukabur volunteers built

a suspension bridge outside of brilliant, British Columbia. That's the name of the town. Brilliant. brilliant. It was to connect their communities that were across the Kootenie River. And that bridge still stands today. Good strong craftsmanship. Yeah. And they're building British Columbian infrastructure in 1913. Sweet. Let's letting us go on our road trip in their little way. Exactly. Now, the government wasn't always happy with the Duke of Wars. As confirmed pacifists, they refused to fight in both of the world wars. Yeah.

Because of this, the Duke Boers were disenfranchised, meaning they could not vote in Canada in 1917 and then again in 34, all the way up till 55. Wow. Yeah. So there was a long period where they were not granted the benefits of Canadian citizenship fully. Now, Peter Verrigan, also known as Lordly, right? Right. The non-godlike figure of the Duke Wars. No.

Any resemblance is coincidental. Yeah, exactly. Yes, yes. It's just... I get that all the time. Efficient, convenient. Yeah, we just look alike. Yeah. I don't know. You're saying that in overall, it's just like really hits. I like it. So Peter was a pretty good businessman. He had been looking around, looking at other properties to buy, looking at ways to expand Dukabor Industries, farmland. He even went as far south as Oregon. to look at some land down there and set up another settlement, another Ducobor settlement in the United States. And of course, the Ducabor enterprises were profitable. Their orchards were making money. Their farms were making money. They were getting into more industry. Toil and peaceful life was really working out for the finances of the Ducobores. No peace like peace of mind, is there.

So Peter Verigan had a lot of power at this point, leading of this large industrial group of people, devoted, willing to work hard. He boarded a train that was going through the Kootenie area. And I'm sure we'll see a lot of this and maybe even learn more about it when we have boots on the ground. But all these mining towns, all these lumber towns, the railway, the Canadian Pacific Railway was instrumental in connecting all of them. Oh, yeah.

To say the very least. So Peter Verrigan got on a train that was moving through the Kootenies. he was with his female assistant, who some claim was a new love interest of his. Man and woman can't be friends and or boss slash assistant. It's, yeah, boundaries. Boundaries. Boundaries.

Outside of the Faron train station and not that far out. Like the train stopped, went and picked up steam. So it was maybe like a few minutes after the stop, the train exploded. The fuck? Yes. If I was wandering off, you've got my attention again now. Yeah, thank you. Okay, good.

Coffee shot of a train explosion. There you go. An espresso. If you will. Train, you know. This was October 28th, 1924. Eight people died. Numerous more were injured.

Among the dead was Peter Verrigan. I thought he had so much longer left in this story. No. I was pacing myself for a long time. with Peter, damn. Say goodbye. One day your train explodes. It's so sad.

I mean that like in the least flip it way possible. One day you're on a train. The next, neither you nor the train. Are there. And that's it. Yeah. Wow. And what's also very strange about this is this is 1924.

It is still a mystery 100 years later about who planted this bomb. It was a bomb? It was a bomb. Wow. They found in the forensics, an incendiary device had been planted on the train and exploded. And there is theories that it was specifically to target Peter Verrigan. Now, by who the list is long. Wow.

I mentioned that he had a female friend with him. He had other female friends. Hell half no fury, huh? Yeah, exactly. That makes sense. The KKK may have been involved? Okay. Well, he had been spending so much time in Oregon, which if you know anything about Oregon history, it was started as a white supremacist stronghold. And the KKK had a very fierce. I had no idea. Dark time for early Oregon. But they may have felt threatened by him coming in with his pacifist ways. It may have undercut their white supremacist ways. I've never felt threatened by anyone's pacifist ways. Well, if they're buying up all the land, there's also theories that it perhaps. was a dissenting faction of the Ducobores themselves.

Right. That planted this bomb. Right. Yeah. It's a big fat mystery. It's a question mark, question mark, question mark. But it is labeled. We'll figure it out on the road trip.

Yeah. Yeah. Bring your magnifying glass. We're going to Nancy drew the fuck out of this. But it is labeled as the first terrorist attack in British Columbia. Wow. Yeah. Learning so much from.

this already. I know. And I love the way our stories are lined right up, didn't they. Finding these beautiful little conflicts of intersection. Yeah. We love to see it. So I mentioned that perhaps one of the suspects is dissenting factions of the Duke of Boers. Now here we come back to Sons of Freedom or the Freedomites. Right. And these are the people who have the trick party dresses and they love fire. Yes. Uh-huh. And they also hate school. Same. We'll note that. Yeah. Teachers suck. Exactly.

We're not clones, dude. So the Sons of Freedom, they most likely came about in that brief period when the Dukobores emigrated to Canada, 1899, and Varian was still in Russia. It's not completely like cemented history, but there's theories that without that leadership and with a little bit of the wanderingness of being in. a new country, the new ideas. There was a fraction of the Dukobor community that was starting to maybe peel away. They were still loyal to Peter Verrigan. In fact, they got their hands on some letters that Peter was writing to not the Dukabors themselves, but to other acquaintances, including Leo Tolstoy, in which Vergan wrote out some ideas. Now, again, these were weren't intended for the Dukobores. These weren't, you know, the tablets. Now that our guy is dead,

we take our religious texts where we can find them. Yes. So one of the things that Peter Verrigan wrote in a letter had to do with nudity. Okay. And he wrote, get them out. I propose that people would gradually get used to physical nakedness. Spiritual nakedness is much more sad. So he goes on to talk about Adam and Eve and the pure state of being, which is nakedness. Yep. And the Sons of Freedom, read that, take that, do with it what they will. He wrote also of education. Peter Verrigan wrote in a letter, I would like to see education, as well as any written

communication, of course, dropped altogether as a trial period for a couple of years. For a couple of years, we'll stop writing things down and see how it goes. This is as a yet only a thought, a product of fantasy, end quote. He's writing it in a letter. Exactly, right? But they take that little seed and grow a mighty tree of distrust of education. But does it not occur to them that they've read this and even know about it thanks to this letter? Yes.

Here we go. And then there's kind of a third tenet that gets chalked up to the free. And that's this love of arson. Yeah. What's that about? This didn't come from a direct burn shit down seed. It wasn't like at Woodstock 99 when Fred Durst was telling people to break shit. Yes, it wasn't.

I got you. I got you. But I think they took the idea of anti-materialism and they wanted to hit that home in a big way. What is more anti-materialism than turning material into like anti-matter, right? There can't be things if we burn them all. Like the way you think. There you go. 40 chests.

It's always going on up here. So they had essentially a practice of protest where they would burn their own homes. Sometimes they would burn other duke-a-bore homes, non-freedomite, non-sons-of-freedom duke-a-bores. And I don't think that would go over well. No, no. In fact, there was one attempt in 1969 where a descendant of Peter Verrigan says that they attempted to burn down his own house, quote, a blaze destroyed precious family artifacts, including correspondence between the man's great-great-grandfather and prominent Dukabor leader and Russian writer Leo Tolstay. So this anti-materialism extends even so far into what I would deem a religious relic, right? these letters, this history of the duke-a-bore past.

Yeah, yeah. But if it's, according to the Freedomites, if it's... Things are things. Things are things. Yeah, things are just things. Yeah. Does it spark joy? They're just a heavy hand on the Marie-Condo.

Yeah, emphasis on the spark. Yes. Nice. Now, and I made this distinction at the top of the episode, the Duke of Boers are different from Freedomites or the sons of freedom. And... As time moves on, as leaders get bombed on trains, you know, people change, beliefs change. And the dukeobores kind of separated into these three branches.

One was the community duke abhors, which is still the largest of the three subgroups of the dukeobores in Canada. And they're the most aligned with Varigan. They're the modern day dukechabors that we see today. There were the independent dukechabors who, when the Canadian government kind of pushed together, the ideas of communal living, they said, yeah, we don't, we don't need that. I can be ducabur and farm my own land that's under my name. Got that. I'm cool with that. That's fine. And then there were the sons of freedom or the freedomites. And they went off with these burned shit, get naked, fuck teacher seeds. Yes. Yes. And grew these mighty trees.

Mighty oaks. Yes. Now, one such protest of education happened in 1953. The Sons of Freedom, they were in the town of Thurn, which is in this Kootenie region, and they were parading nude in front of a school. Fuck. The BC government came in and said, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, no. You can't do that. We're not footing the bill for all this therapy. Absolutely not. No. So the RC&P arrested 148. Wow. Sons of Freedom. adults, which meant that their children had nowhere to go. Right. I'd forgotten about this, yes.

So the adults were tried and shipped out to Okala Prison, which I believe is on the west coast of BC, and 104 Sons of Freedom children were taken to New Denver, which is a tiny town, one of these mining towns in the Kootenies. The Sons of Freedom had contentious relationships with the B.C. government, even before this nude protest, new laws had passed in British Columbia, requiring that all children under a certain age go to school. They have to be enrolled in some type of school. And this, you know, this rule is still here today. I went to school. Yeah, I went to school. It happens in California. Damn. They got you guys too. Yeah. Fucking teachers. But the Ducobores, being anti-education, as they were, said absolutely not.

Our kids will not be going to your schools, to that school, to any school. This will not be happening. And if you try to put up a fight about it, we won't because we're pacifists. Yeah, exactly. We're pacifists who burn shit. So watch out. Things are just things. So by the time this 1953 protest happened outside of Thurn and all these folks had been arrested, the BC government had decided that they were going to use a tactic in their toolbox that they'd used before, which was to create a specialized school for the Sons of Freedom.

The old assimilation playbook. Exactly. Yeah. New Denver had an abandoned tuberculosis sanatorium. Lord. That was repurposed to become a school for the Sons of Freedom children. It ran from 1953 to 1959. Okay.

The BC government at the time had very clear goals for the new Denver school. And as you mentioned, assimilation was at the top of the list. It was not a covert situation. It was not a sneaky, like, well, we're just going to do. trying to pass this off as like we're taking care of these kids it was very clear written out in reports we want to separate these children from their culture they will not be allowed to speak russian which many of the duke abhor and the sons of freedom spoke and still speak we will not let them wear the clothes that they would like to wear or not wear i'm tired yeah i should also note

the limited access between parent and child so very much like the resident schools that were inflicted on the indigenous population here. Yeah. It was all the same playbook, more or less, right? Yeah. Now, I do want to be careful with that distinction because I think the situations are a little different. The Dukabors moved into an area that already had an indigenous population.

That's true. Even if they didn't quite realize it, or even if they did, they were tools of the colonialist project of the Canadian government. I think that's worth bearing in mind the New Denver school gets equated to residential schools quite often and it's because the tools are similar but I think the situations are different enough

to point out that they aren't exactly the same. Sure. It was a long time, six years but residential schools in Canada and the U.S. lasts significantly longer. Yeah, exactly. So not only were there reports of improper custodianship

of the kids, so ill-equipped teachers, no counselors. The children themselves who were under stress were sometimes not very nice to each other. So there's reports of abuse from other children, not being overseen by adults. They weren't unable to see their parents. They were forced to work. You mentioned Riverview and how residents had to maintain the property. The kids of the New Denver School also had to maintain the property. That's awful. That's really awful. They were forced to go to school and have this BC curriculum, but often the new Denver staff who were there would call the RCMP to do any type of enforcement stuff.

Outsourcing your discipline to the cops. Yes, exactly. Exactly. One of the things, too, that was noted a lot in survivor testimonies is the fence that was built around the campus. And it was particularly of note because it was such a visual metaphor for the separation, right? There's lots of pictures of Dukabur parents trying to reach their children or kissing their kids through this chain link fence. It was erected in 1953 by student workers as well. So there's something particularly painful.

That's cruel to build the fence that's going to contain you. Yeah. Yeah. Or keep your parents out. Yeah. One Sons of Freedom, New Denver School student, testified, quote, they're building a fence. I didn't really question why. And then after I slowly realized that, well, wait a minute, we're imprisoning ourselves here.

So there's something like, yeah, very haunting. Very haunting about that. Yeah, upsetting. That's why the fence comes to represent so much for the school. Yeah. And it was just an industrial, like, eight foot high chain link fence. It's nothing really special, but it went around the entire school and it made the place feel much more prison than it had even before. And it already did feel pretty prisony.

That's an old tuberculosis ward, isn't it? It's not going to feel amazing. No, no, it's not cozy, homie. Another survivor who was seven at the time that she was at New Denver school, she testified no emotional, no hugs. You put somebody away into an institution and don't hung them. They were just a child. They never gave us comfort. You were emotionally barren.

There was no love given. What does a child grow up thinking then? Yeah, that's really sad. Yeah. Another survivor testified, I came to New Denver in 1953, taken away from my parents at 10 years old. I lost my childhood in those three years. So it's a pretty intense and saddening chapter in BC history. in addition to a few other...

It's one of a few similar chapters, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Since then, there have been Amsbad reportings where the BC government has had somebody go in, take testimonies, understand the situation, get the full picture, and create a report. The first report came in 1999, and it cited that there was a loss of love

and nurturing for these students. They had no parental or communication. community guidance. There was a general loss of childhood. And this is coming from the BC government's own reporting. Part of what this 1999 almsbud report recommended was that a formal apology be given. Now, if I've learned anything about Canadian history, saris are very serious. Yes. A great deal. A great deal can be attached to your story. Alternatively, it can be something that you say to a table when you throw down a book too hard. Yes.

You know? I know the buses when they are no longer running. They read, sorry. Sorry. Not in service. But it's, you know, it's in the Canadian lexicon, certainly. Yes. And there's been much ado made of what constitutes an apology.

In Canada, an apology does not constitute legal responsibility simply because we say sorry so much. Yes, there was a case about this. Oh my gosh. That's really interesting. We have an apology law where, because like, you know how in like the United States, for example, it's always encouraged, like, never really take ownership of anything that's legally actionable, even if it was your fault, because it could be used against you.

Just, you know, spongy your way through. Yeah, whereas here, here you can say sorry about it, and it's not, it doesn't constitute an admission of guilt just because we say sorry all the time for things that are not our fault here culturally. Yeah. Like we say, oh, I'm sorry you got stuck in traffic earlier, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

And at least in the American legal framework, then it's your fault that there's traffic. Yeah, you were responsible. You did this. I didn't know that. That's so interesting. And that makes a lot of sense, too. Yeah. And I think, too, thinking about like a governmental apology in the American context is like very hollow.

The American government has never apologized for anything. Did you know in 2024, 10 days before the election, Biden was in Arizona. He was at the Gila River Indian Reservation. And he issued a formal apology on behalf of the U.S. government for forcibly assimulating indigenous children. The comparison between the truth and reconciliation apology in Canada, which was very serious. And in 2008, at that time, Prime Minister Stephen Harper issued a formal apology to the indigenous peoples of Canada for the residential school system. And it was an extensive and exhaustive report that is

still being built on today. It is a huge part of Canadian history and what it means to be Canadian, what it means to be indigenous in Canada. And what it means to attempt to work through that process of reconciliation. Yeah. And it does start with an apology, with the recognition of wrongdoing and moving to solution after that. And there's something so beautiful about that and wonderful. And you can see it in other colonizing countries, New Zealand, Australia. There are other approaches and advances in a type of truth and reconciliation with colonized folks. But in the U.S., it feels very empty. Like an apology from a sitting president is like, okay, and then what?

Like, what are you going to do for me now? Like, because it holds no bearing. Yeah. And it's a wonderful example that Joe got to, you know, ring the bell or whatever. And people were like, yeah, Joe. Wall Street. Yeah, I don't know. Stock exchange.

I think the whole thing just had like a, yay, balloons released. Yeah, cut the ribbon. Yeah, yeah. But then 10 days later, Trump takes power and but to being butto-bun. Yeah. Or he's voted in at least. From an American context, hearing that the government apologizes to a wronged minority and admits that they have caused pain and suffering is unique.

I mentioned the first almsbed report was in 1999. An apology from the B.C. government wasn't issued to the Sons of Freedom until the fall of 2023. You had mentioned advocacy work of affected groups, doing the work, making the testimonies, really trying to get traction and action. The Sons of Freedom and even other Dukabur groups did a lot of work to make that happen. They didn't let it go. So an apology is issued. 70 years after children were taken from their parents. And in addition to the apology, a $10 million compensation package was given to the community. Wow.

Which is great. They can light it on fire. Right. They don't want it. They do want it. Really, the issue is that it didn't quite account for every family that was affected. And because it came so late after the offense, so many of those people who were survivors, did not reap the benefits of that.

And because they had passed, that money didn't quite reach them, even though their families could still benefit from it. BC-Almsbud person J. Kalk says, we welcome that the government has begun compensating some survivors. But the promise made one year ago was broader. The province committed to ensuring that all affected individuals receive fair compensation. And so far, we have not seen a full plan or timeline for when this will happen. given the premier's commitment that accompanied the solemn proceedings in the legislator one year

ago today, it is disheartening to see so little progress, end quote. So there is still work to be done to act on that apology, but it is being done in some way, shape, or form. And I think you had said this earlier, too, taking away somebody's children is bad, I said, I think. Bad, yeah. I think it was against it. I think it was against it.

Yeah, yeah. But essentially what's happening is these children. children are being punished for their parents' actions. Should you burn provincial buildings? Should you protest nude? I'd say yes. I think that's a good one. Yeah, sure. But should you full out refuse to educate your child? I think we can perhaps debate that. So there's things that Sons of Freedom did that I personally, I can't speak for anybody else, but I personally don't agree with and would have a contentious argument about. Yeah.

But I would have that argument with the adults in the situation and not take it out on the kids. Right. Let's leave the kids out of this, folks. Yeah. They didn't ask for this. Yeah. They don't even know why everyone's naked.

It's just fun. It's just good times. So today, they're said to be between 20,000 to 30,000 Dukubors in Canada. And they're mainly concentrated in the Kootenie area. There's some still in Saskatchewan and the prehist. prairies. And there are dukabors in Russia as well, or in kind of former Soviet Union eastern block situations. A very small fraction are still there. The majority of them are here in BC. And the current community has to do quite a bit of work to distinguish themselves from the Sons of Freedom. Not every

Dukabur will strip down naked. Yeah. Not every Dukabur hates school and teachers. Not everyone will burn out your car. Exactly. Yeah. Because it's such a sensationalist story and because idiots like me glom on to it and want to tell it again and again and again. Stupid Josie. Stupid Josie.

There's an association of these fantastic fanatical beliefs and actions that get associated with Dukabor tradition. But there's work being done. There is a new movement to highlight the culture and religion by creating choirs. to sing the hymns and psalms that are so integral to the oral tradition of the Dukabur. Can't fucking read it. But you can sing it. You can sing it.

The choirs are pretty cool. They're all a cappella. And it's men and women in these big choirs and they're kind of overlapping, almost like, eerie, like, harmonies that are happening. They're kind of, they're really cool sounding, actually. There are museums and sites to see in the Coutanese. Exciting. Uh-huh. In Brilliant BC, there's Vergan's Memorial Park, which is actually where Peter Vergan is buried.

He has a tomb there that you can go visit. They swept him up? Yeah. Poor guy. Well, some of his charred clothing is in a nearby museum, so that's cool. They buried and burned and naked. No. The Cultural Center, this museum, is run by the Union of Spiritual Communities of Christ, the

USC. And here is where choirs organize performances to spread the word and the song of the Dukabor. There's also little cafes where vegetarian borsht is served. Sure. We love it. There's a men's group that gathers to make wooden crafts. There's a preschool program that has Russian language. I think that's a good note that not all Dukabur's abhor education. Fair. Yes. Fair. There are women's groups that create the beautiful textiles that create a very emblematic, brightly colored Dukabur dress. So some of them wear clothes. Yes, yes.

Brilliant, bright clothes and like babushka style. Nice. Yeah. In Castlegar, there's the Dukabur Discovery Center. And nearby to that, there is the suspension bridge that was built in 1913 that goes over. over the Kootenie River. And it's a heritage site. So the Dukabor tradition is alive and well. The Borsh is delicious, I hear. And we're going to, hopefully, I imagine, get to see some of this. We might have to peel our eyes a bit. It's a small population between, you know, marrying outside of the

religion, getting a little more liberal with some traditions. The religious aspects of a Dukabur way of life are dwindling, but the heritage is still alive and strong. And many people identifies Dukabor without necessarily practicing the faith of, or, you know, to the letter of the law, the faith of Dukabor. But we're going to hopefully see, see some cool, I don't know, some cool stuff. See a bridge. Yeah. See a bowl of borsh. See a house on fire. Well, I hope not. These are, these are dire times firewise. But if we do, we can think, oh, maybe it wasn't the climate. Maybe it was the Sons of Freedom. Thankfully, our girl, Mary Braun, who's, we've left her sitting naked in the witness stand.

Hope it's not breezy in there. She's getting on in years. Yeah. And she's been fasting. She is the last arsonist of the Sons of Freedom. Since her death, no other cases of arson in the name of freedomite, in the name of anti-education, get naked light of fire. That, hasn't occurred. So thankfully that is a thing of the past. Well, thank goodness. Yeah. But I don't know. We're going to be out there. We can reignite a tradition. Stop it. Have given you enough time. I've given you enough of my time for you to do that with it. That is the story of all these strange little edding intricacies of Canadian ducabors of British Columbian. Wow. Very infamous stuff. Very infamous BC stuff.

Yeah, BC's got a lot. Nooks and crannies, mountains and rivers. The Cootanies, man. I don't know. There's a lot in there. There's mountains. They go up, they go down. A lot of pockets to hide.

Well, thank you so much for bringing us such a typical BC homesteader, different people come from around the world here and mess things up, don't they? Do their thing. Make it rich. Make it rich. Make the soil fertile. Take off that top. You almost did it, too.

Podcast. Thank you very much. for coming on the road trip. Thank you for doing these stories with me. Thank you so much to everyone who listened. Thank you to Rui and Lucia. Thank you guys for joining us on this wild adventure. Yeah, the big Skookum, BC road trip. Thank you, Alex. Thank you, 604 podcast studios. It's been a blast. What are you looking forward to at the end of a road trip? Sleeping in my own bed. Shower. Shower, then sleep in my own bed. Do it in that order. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How about you? Batman and Mitchell in that order.

yeah yeah perfect thank you so much everyone we'll see you back on our usual schedule every two weeks every other sunday in the meantime we love you stay skukum out there thanks for listening if you want more infamy we've got plenty more episodes at bittersweetinfemy com wherever you listen to podcasts if you want to support the podcast shoot us a few bucks via our coffee account at K-O-F-I-com forward slash bittersweet infamy. But no pressure. Bittersweet infamy is free, baby.

You can always support us by liking, rating, subscribing, leaving a review, following us on Instagram at Bittersweet Infamy, or just pass the podcast along to a friend who you think would dig it. Stay sweet. British Columbia exists on the unseated land of 200,000. and three First Nations. This episode featured stops in the homes of the Tunaha, Swepamh, Shuswap, Similkamin, Stalow, Chilhuyak, Skwa, Kukwapilt,

Chiam, Sinaikst, In Kilklakmach, and Silk Oganagin. The studio portions were taped in Vancouver on the territory of Musqueam, Squamish, and Tue-Latuth peoples. The sources that I used for this episode include three reports from Omsbud Person, British Columbia, including one, writing the wrong, the confinement of the Sons of Freedom, Dukeabur Children, posted April 8th, 1999. Another report, Time to Write the Wrong, posted Tuesday, July 18th, 2023, and a background report created in 2023. All three of these reports can be found on BC-Omsbud Person, I looked at an article from the New York Times,

Dukabur's Defy Canadian Police, Wives of Sons of Freedom, Still Burning Homes, Published January 24th, 1962. I read an article from BBC.com, their travel section, Canada's little-known Russian sect, written by Brendan Sainsbury, published June 23, 2021. I read an article from CBC, Children Held in B.C. Ducabura Camp in 19. 50s offered 10 million compensation package. This was published February 1st, 2024. Also from the CBC, I watched a YouTube video. BC government apologizes to Dukabur's 70 years after removing children. And it was posted to YouTube February 27th, 2024 on the CBC News, the National page. I read an article from Canadianmystries.cah, dukebore community elders ordered schools burned

in 1924. This article was posted to Great Unsolved Mysteries in Canadian History with the title Explosion of the Kettle Valley Line, The Death of Peter Verrigan. I read an article from National Public Radio in PR. Biden apologizes for government's role in running Native American boarding schools. Written by Gabriel Pietroirio, published October 26th, 2024. I read the article Ducobores from the Canadian Encyclopedia. I read an article from B.C. Magazine, written by Jane Mundi, Ducoburs in the Kootenies, a short history on this controversial and storied BC community. It was published in the winter issue of 2023. I read an article from Knowledge.ca.ca.c.a. British Columbia and Untold History. Their article, Ducobor's Protest. A religious

immigrant group finds itself at odds with the government. Knowledge.c.a is that source that Taylor recommends. If you're looking for ways to support the Bitter Sweet Infamy podcast, you can head over to our coffee account and throw us a few bucks. That is K-O-F-I-com slash bittersweet infamy. And when you throw us a few bucks as a monthly subscriber, you can have full access to the Bitter Sweet Film Club, where you recommend the films we watch and talk about. Becoming a subscriber not only gets you access to exclusives like the Better Sweet Film Club, but you join the ranks of our other subscribers. Terry, Jonathan, Lizzie D., Erica Joe, Sof, Dylan, and Sactual the Cat.

And one time, my mom supported us too. Bittersweet Infamy is a proud member of the 604 Podcast Network. Alex McCarthy of the 604 Podcast Network helped edit parts of this episode. Our cover photo that you see on Instagram and all over the place, place was taken by Luke Bentley. The interstitial music you heard earlier is by Mitchell Collins, and the song you're listening to now is T Street by Brian Steele.