Bittersweet Infamy - #147 - The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill

Episode Date: August 16, 2026

Taylor tells Josie and special guest host Mitchell Collins about the career controversies of musical icon Ms. Lauryn Hill. 

Mr. Bassa? Yeah. What do you think love is? One of my friends a long time ago told me that you never love two people the same way. And I think that that's been really instructive for me because it's been my experience that love hasn't felt the same way twice. And the love that you give one person is different feeling and it looks different than the love that you give another person. That's good. That's good.

Thank you. I try. I try. Yeah. I think about love a lot. I really do. Love love. I say this all the time. I love love. He loves love. I love. Welcome to Bittersweet Inpe. I'm Taylor Basso. And I'm Josie Mitchell. On this podcast, we share the stories that live on and in me.

The strange and the familiar. The tragic and the comic. The bitter. And the sweet. It's August. Oh, yeah. It's nice and warm out. Very warm. Maybe too warm depending where you are. If you're a little insect in a forest that's caught fire. You know, you don't want to be that toasty when you're a snug bug in a rug, is what I think. For the friction, it's fire starting. But you know what, we're hoping that there's not going to be too much friction here. I know that Josie, you and I can sometimes get into a few arguments, a few scuffles. It can get pretty heated on the show. So we've brought in a mediator, a young man named Mitchell Collins.

Hi. Hi, Mitchell Collins. Hi. Hi, I'm first time on the show. Yeah, brand new, brand new. I've never been on a podcast before. Well, this isn't the one to start with. I promise you that.

Go on my favorite murder. They'll love you over there. Oh, okay, good. Yeah. Okay, well, it's good to see you. Goodbye. Bye. No, I'm just kidding.

Mitchell, how have you been since the last time our listeners heard from you? When was that? Mitch miss. Mitch miss. Oh, yeah. So, like the last Christmas, special. This is your first appearance of season five. Yeah.

Season six? Season six. Jesus. Five. Five. Five. Five. Five.

Five. Oh, six seven, six seven. Mitchell, you were saying. Yeah. haven't been bad. Life is good. I don't really know who I am or what I'm doing. Oh, but that's just the way of the world.

I don't think you figure that one out until very deep in the game, by which point it no longer really matters all that much. Yeah, until it's done and then you look back and like, that's what I did. Okay, good. Okay. How are you, Taylor? And now I'm dead. I'm good.

I'm good. I just had Rui stay in here for a good long time. Ruiz now back living permanently in Port Moody. Okay. So officially back in town. It was a good time to be living together, but you know, sometimes when you're living on top of one another in a little studio apartment that's not meant for two people, it can get a little bit overwhelming too. So it's nice to have the time apart as nice as it was to have the time together. Yeah. And in order to deal with that sensory overwhelm, as a very, like, kind guest and lovely partner, Ruy booked me a float in a float tank.

Oh, the isolation tank. The isolation tank. And then the saltwater and you float. And then the salt water and you float. Jelly all your wounds. And you have to jelly all your wounds. Okay, so yes, it's very important that you jelly the wounds, folks. You might go in there with your open cuts and think, oh, this won't matter all that much.

It does. It will. If you have a little cut next to say your butthole, that'll fucking sting. If you have eggs them on your ankle, that'll sting. Oh, that. Once you lather them up with the Vaseline, though, you say that like you know. Have you done a float yourself? We have Groupond an isolation tank float.

That's where you get the float things, is Groupon. Yeah. And what was that experience like for you? It was very calming and then like at the edges slightly claustrophobic. It was the same for me. I hated when the music happened. I really liked when it was totally quiet. The music really blew it for me.

Was it like corn? I wish I had, no. If it had been corn, if it had been actually just any real music, I would have been way happier. But it was muzac. Yeah, the fact that it's like, why you? But what you want to, don't, don't, you know what I've learned, and I learned this from romance

novels, romantic comedies too. Don't think too far outside the box when you're playing to genre. When you're doing like wholesome ugi-boogie, spa shit, people want wholesome uge-boogie spa music, you know? For having a successful business, I think you're right, but I don't know. I wasn't their target. But to appeal to the, um, the, the, um, the, intelligent man's float tank experience.

I would have been happier with corn or something that was like random mix. Or silence. There's something. Or silence. Shaney O'Connor. If they committed to Shnade in the float tank, I would have respected that commitment, is all I'm saying. There's a meditation that I found on Spotify that's a Shnade O'Connor meditation. It's her just being like, feel your ankles going into the ground below you.

Is it real? Is it really her? Yeah, yeah. It's her. She recorded it before she passed away some time ago. And it's like 20 minutes long. It's a nice little meditation. It's so crazy that we're talking.

about this right now because I just started reading her book. I started reading the book that you based the episode of. Rememberings? Yeah, rememberings. Yes, yes. Excellent, excellent book I thought. It's so good. Yeah. It's so good. She's funny. She's funny. She's got like a dark, she's fucking Irish. Irish people are funny. It's all the oppression, sadly. I really enjoyed my float. I wasn't in a tank. I was in like a big room. Were you guys in a tank or a room? It was a tank thing we could like close, but it was a private room where you like could get naked if you wanted. And then, get in the tank. Oh, I was naked. Oh, for sure. As if I'm going to fucking go in and ganch. I had my own, like, half a room that had, like, a big basin in it. So I found, like,

for me, my worry was always that I am super claustrophobic and I didn't think that a float tank would suit me. But, like, a float room, I found very agreeable. That's good. Even in spite of the hippie music that they played from time to time. Did Rui do it too? No, just me. I'm... Rui is good at staying calm and rational. I need to float sometimes. times to call the fuck down. I hear you. What about y'all? What have y'all been up to?

Well, most recently, our AC broke, which... Oh, we love that in August in Houston, Texas. Yeah. That was... That's been what we've been doing all weekend until today, basically. Oh, it's a weekend-long activity. That is not good. Well, because...

We're back now. Taylor, we're back. fingers crossed, because nothing was, like, replaced. On Friday afternoon, the temperature started to climb, and it wasn't, like, dangerous. It was just like, well, we've set it to 74, and it's at 78, so that's a sign. A technician came out, looked at it, replaced some Freon. That should be good. Delicious Fri-on?

Delicious, Dish, Dish Fri-on. That's also how you can tell I'm robot, Taylor. I start craving Fri-on. Delicious Fri-on. And then Saturday was, it was fine. It climbed a little bit, but not too crazy. And then Sunday, it just, like, kicked out. And it was getting in the 80s to the point where the house got into the 90s by the evening.

VH1s, I love the 90s? No, 32 degrees Celsius. That's how hot. Inside. And it's so humid here. So it's like, oh my God, our books are getting damp. It just felt like, ugh. The books are sweating.

Yeah, the books are sweating. And like, oh, the carpet, you know, like, ugh. And so our landlords, very kind people, they gave us a portable AC unit that we should. that we set up in our bedroom. But then today the technician came out and was like, I can't tell what's wrong. And today it was fine. I hate that.

Hate that. That's dissatisfying. These AC units are like, they're big honking things that are hooked up to the whole ducting of the house. Like, it's a big operation. You don't want, nor do you like really always need to replace the whole thing. You don't be like, oh, the blender is broken.

Let's just get a new blender. Right. It's a big enough investment that you're like, let's find what's wrong. Let's fix it. Art, yeah. And that's, you know, that's good. But when there's like 90 degrees, 32 degrees Celsius on the line, it's kind of like, no, just rip it out. Give me a new one. So Mitchell, as a Texas boy born in bread, what recommendations do you give people to get through a heat wave when the air

conditioner kicks out? I was going to say I don't think I'm the expert, but I'm actually less of an expert than anyone on Earth, I think. Oh, damn. So you should be asking me. Yes, because like Texas, at least in Houston, we're like, it's terraformed here. We survive with like heavy AC, like more than anyone in the world. And like you, when it gets hot, like, you actually have to deal with it. In New York, like they have to deal with it in New York. And in England, like they're dealing with all that shit right now.

And I feel like all the people I just named, including you, like, actually have to come up with the real solutions. And whenever my AC breaks, I'm like a baby and I don't know what to do. Ah, damn. I put my socks in the freezer. Okay. See, this is, these are the solutions that I was looking for. These are the life hacks. So snappy life hacks.

Oh, okay. Exactly. We're getting, uh, getting awful close, Josie and Mitchell, to episode 150. I know. One hundred 50th episode. One for each Pokemon, except for Mew. Except for Mew. And all the other ones.

Well, the ones that would follow, but each of the original Pokemon, yes. There's like thousands now. There's, there's too many to count. We stopped counting. Yeah, we stopped. No one knows. No one knows. No one knows.

I'm so excited for 150 because of how much I love the Meltie. And I can't wait for this year of Melty's. Well, tough luck, you stupid bitch. We're not doing them for episode 150. What? No, Melty. Crush this man's dream, Josie. Oh, man.

Crushed ice on that one. This 150, we're not going to do the Melty's. We're going to keep them sacred and holy for the big two zeros. Oh, that's okay. The 200s, the 300s, the three. Well, I guess that's okay. I guess I can wait for that. We're going to come out with a great episode.

Your socks will be in the freezer for this one. Oh, yeah. Okay. Absolutely. Put them in there to chill now in advance. The fans have been writing in their zeros demanding to know what will be happening with the penalties. So we just thought we had to tell people, yeah. For the film club, of which I am a sometimes guest.

A pat. A pat. You have perpetual special guest. We have people request movies that we watch. Does that ever happen for the? the main show? Do people request stories for you to tell? Oh, gosh, that's a good question. I've had people request stories, yeah, and sometimes I've done them other times. I've been like, oh, that's not quite, you know, I don't want to. Yeah. I don't say that, but I'll put it on the

list, I say, and I do put it on the list, and then I put the list in a drawer, and then I shoot the drawer into the sun. That's good. But I'm definitely, we're very open. In fact, if you want to follow us on at Bittersweet Infamy on Instagram, send us a DM, drop a comment in our photos. You can email us at bittersweet infamy at gmail.com, or you can just get in touch with us. Yeah, on coffee, k-o-hyphen-fi.com slash bittersweet infamy. We're always open to suggestions, I think. What about you, Josie? Yeah, yeah.

I think that's the word that I was going to say is like, it always feels like a suggestion. Because whenever I hear a story, I kind of have to, like, I have to see if I can, like... Is it going to be funny? Yeah, yeah. They're not always funny, but I like it if there's an angle. Can I mold it? Can I mold it? Can I find a grip hold in it, a way in, yeah. Is it reflective of a present event or, you know, whatever? In fact, if we want to talk about one that was requested by a viewer on our Instagram,

back in episode 49, we covered the story of Blusifer, the big horse at Denver International Airport. I love that one. The main episode of that story was the Coddingly Ferrys, but yeah, a large testicle blue horse. That was a great episode. Damn, that was a really good one. I like both of those. It was Christina, who is one of our... viewers who suggest, or listeners, I guess, were at an audio medium that suggested it. So yeah,

thank you so much and please feel free to suggest your own episodes. Okay, I have an update on a past story. Taylor, you remember the number, but remember the story about Rabbit Island? Oh, okay, Okonoshima Rabbit Island. I'm going to say that that is episode 47. I knew you had it, and you, Taylor. That's why I was like, I'm not even though. TBS Super Station, 47. Yeah. Set it off playing all the time. Great movie. The update to that story, you found the story, Mitchell. So there are wild boars on the island that have developed a hanker in for rabbit meat. Oh, dear. So just to recap, this is a story about an island in Japan that's covered in rabbits,

but also covered in like disused chemical weapon factories from the Second World War. Yeah. It's a video game level. Yeah. And now there's Wild Boers DLC. Yes. Stuff out there. Yes.

Yes. So like I guess that's where we are in the timeline is like it's not only the chemical warfare remnants. It's now killer boars. Now we've got boars. Possibly radioactive. We don't even know. Most likely. Do you have any grasp on?

And if you don't, could you make something up? how did those boars get onto that island and begin to propagate? Yes, I don't know the full answer to that. But what's the fake answer? The fake answer is... They were there the whole time. Yeah, they just emerged. They were dormant underneath the soil.

Yes, yes. That's perfect, perfect. Oh, thank you. Of course. In marriage. Yeah, yeah. She's there the whole time. The couple that lies together, spies together, as they say.

Pio, bea-pio. Yeah, so true. Mr. Mrs. Smith over here. I just watched Mermaids for the first time. I didn't know that movie wasn't really about mermaids. It's not at all. It's so good. Isn't that good?

Don't you love it? It's good. I haven't finished it yet. What? Because like, I watch it. Okay, so tell me this isn't a fucking killer run of movies. We watched Showgirls. We watched, what do we watch after Showgirls?

It was showgirls, mermaids, and a third thing. And the mermaids came last. It was Thelman Louise. Oh, my God. Whoa. Showgirls? I guess films that pass the Bectel test, right? Yeah.

Showgirls, Thelma and Louise, mermaids. All really good. That's good. Bangers. Nothing but bangers. Yeah. Incredible. And you know where we're also watching bangers.

On the film club. Over at the Bitter Sweet Film Club. Yes, absolutely. I've said enough. How about Mitchell? You do the advertisement. Okay. If you turn into the Bittersweet Film Club,

that means that means that, You are a coffee subscriber. So if you are one of those cool people that wants to throw a little money, Josie and Taylor's way. And by, you know, residual effect to you, too. That's right. Shared finances, motherfuckers. Hell yeah. If you are that cool and you want to contribute to the show that you love and also get a little bonus content, you get to hear us debate heatedly sometimes.

Films. Josie throws things. Mm-hmm. B-man barks. Yeah. The headphone splitter, it's crazy times. And the actual headphones, yeah. So please tune in.

Yeah. The last time we watched one was Merrill Streep in Crying the Dark. Cry in the Dark. Cry in the Dark. And the next one we're doing is, is that Grizzly Man? Grizzly Man at the suggestion of our dear friend Terry, we're coming back. We're doing Grizzly Man. It's our first, it's a Werner-Hertzog.

Yeah. And it's about a man who wants to just go up and hug grizzly bears because they're big, cute teddy bears. They won't, they won't kill you, period. We're excited. We, it's like, what, three bucks a month, something like that. We are really grateful. We know that obviously there's all kinds of like competing things that you might need your money for right now. And so we're never, ever offended if you pass, because the main show is always free. And we're thankful that you're listening, no matter how much money you're giving us. But give us some money over at the film club. And give us some movie suggestions, too. Yeah. And that's www.

W, there's three Ws, don't get that wrong. You'd hate, that would be embarrassing. And that's coffee, K-O-F-I.com slash bittersweet infamy. Mitchell, you did that ad read so well that I'm going to immediately give you an almost insurmountably difficult task. Why don't you improvise a little joke to throw us to the interstitial music? So a serial abuser, a serial killer, and a pedophile walk into a bar. Okay. Josie, we asked him to do this.

I know. The bartender sees them and recognizes them right away. And he's like, oh, hey, officers, what would you like? Ah, dearie me. Hey, Kath. Oh, dearie me. Josie, I'm curious. When you think of love, what comes into your mind, is it a feeling?

Is it a song? What does love mean to you? not a song. I don't know. It's complicated. Like you say, you don't love different people the same way. Sometimes that love is happy and pure and like, oh, they're at the door. Yay! And then sometimes it's also like, oh, fuck. I got to work or I got to like do so. I got to be on time. The takeaway of it is like that it's worth it. The work or that compromise or however it feels in the moment, it's kind of like there is something gratifying still. And sometimes because the work or because of the friction or also the excitement like all of it it all kind of builds something

it's not always just like one one note to go with the song thing it's a it's a harmony of different things in last episode or the one before i told the story of getting stuck at the nanaimo ferry terminal and i sent josie and mitchell a recipe for nanaimo bars on a postcard i love getting a recipe as a postcard it's really sweet Cute, I saw it. And the second I saw it, I was like, well, I could send that to Josie and Mitchell. Oh, yeah, you can. I'm so glad you did. I did try to make them. And they tasted good, but according to Josie and I completely believe her when she says that they didn't taste how they were supposed to, because they were kind of mushy and I know exactly how I fucked it up. How'd you fuck it up? I put the coconut with the vanilla. Stupid fuck. I use, I know. And I used vanilla pudding instead of vanilla custard. And that was where I really fucked up.

And that's a hard, because like a custard. A pudding is not a custard. And there is kind of like, in a British tradition, there's a difference. But in the American tradition, it's just like, whatever. Put some cool whip on that. Yeah, exactly. But I don't know where to get custard this plain. I'll have to find like a British store or something.

We're going to figure it out. Jesus. Yeah, no. So that's the thing is that these are not, I wouldn't say that these are an easy recipe. They're sort of like a layered chocolatey snack bar where all the layers are of different textures and have to maintain their own separate integrity. It's like a chilled dish. Yeah.

I don't know. It seems, I've never made an Animo bars. They seem difficult. It is interesting because most of the baked goods I've made are like something you mix together and then you put them in the oven. But this is kind of like you're making candy because you cook it on the stove and then you layer it and put it in it kind of, the final step is just going in the fridge.

Like you said, it's a cold snack. I love a cold snack. I'm going to get this right. Next time you hear from me on this podcast, you guys, I'll have right. So season seven or whatever. the fuck the next one is, we have you back on. Exactly. Episode 200,

episode 250, I'll be back. Right. It won't be the Melty's, okay? Won't be the Melty's. Get ready for that. It'll be, Mitchell brings us his an Animo bar is perfected. Or how about this? Here's a real promise.

Episode 200, the Melty's, I will make Nanaimo bars and Josie will eat them. Wow. And she gives us the live reaction on the... Yes. We should just plan to be together so you can taste those too, Taylor. Oh, that's sweet. Well, until we can arrange that, I got some. something sweeter for you, a little story I cooked up.

So what do you know Josie and Mitchell about why I have gathered you all here today? I mean, obviously, there's been a murder, but other than that, why do you think, Mitchell, what do you know about why I've invited you onto the show? All I know is that you have a secret about me that I have not been privy to. I'm your son. Yeah. Oh, man. It all makes so much.

That's why his name's Mitchell. But more seriously. More seriously, I know that Josie said that you wanted to have me on because this is a music story. Yeah, that's exactly why. So I have prepared for you a little musical romp, musical infamy. And I thought that perhaps it would be a situation where if you couldn't outright enhance the experience, then you might at least enjoy it. Because you're a musician. You're a musical...

Yes, to be clear. A guy. Yeah, no pressure. Am I supposed to sing at any point? Now. Don't make me sing. No, Mitchell is a composer and a musician,

and he, according to his loving mother, has perfect pitch. Mitchell, perfect pitchell Collins. We say it all the time. I do. She does like to say that, but Mitchell is a very good musician,

and he can hear any song and then in about five, ten minutes, play it on the piano. Your listeners already know. this because they've heard my rendition of My Heart Will Go On. Right, yes. You did do the rendition of My Heart Will Go On that we use for Titanic April. My work speaks for itself.

It's true. It does. It really does, yeah. It sounds like Celine Dion when it speaks. That's absolutely true. So on these shows, in these episodes, there's like kind of different types of episodes, right? You customize the structure to the story, but off the rack, we've got like, what, survival narrative?

Uh-huh. You'll have a lot of wonderful biopics, I think. Oh, yeah, we biopic up. Aha, aha. Okay, so let's zoom in on that. Oh, enhance, enhance, enhance. One of my favorite genres of story, if you like, is what I'll just call portrait of a person. Shnade O'Connor back in episode 62. Vanessa Williams?

Vanessa Williams. Yep. Tanya Head, the 9-11 faker lady. Oh, she's good. Then I covered back in like episode 108 or something like this, the tower. The con artist lady with the car. She like... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Dale, the Dale. Yeah. Elizabeth shrugged, episode I think 72. Even if you go all the way back to episode 12, Flowers in Hell, one of our first efforts, the Gibbons sisters, right? Yeah. It's a tried and true. It felt like I hadn't done one of these in a little bit. So I figured I would bring you

a portrait of a person today. Okay. And when it comes to selecting our podcast subjects, celebrities aptly always perform well. And here on Bittersweet Infamy, we love our controversial women of the 90s. In episode 24, tragic actress, Brittany Murphy, Oh, RIP. In episode 62, Pope Ripping Irish iconoclast, Shnate O'Connor. Mm-hmm. In episode 105, 902 a nobody, Shannon Doherty. May they all rest.

The subject of today's story shares some things in common with the late luminaries I just listed. Like Shannon, she's got a temperamental reputation, a cantankerous queen, some might say. Okay. Like Brittany, her toxic relationships with red flag men have seeped into her public image. Uh-oh. And like Sister Chenade, today's subject was presented with a path to mainstream pop super stardom and violently rejected it, preferring instead to go off in her own much weirder direction. She sounds cool, whoever she is.

And also like Chenade, she is an accolated musical luminary. She appears on lists like NPR's 50 greatest voices, Rolling Stones 200 greatest singers, VH1's 100 women in music, and Billboard's 10 greatest rappers. She was the first woman to win five Grammy Awards in a single night and the first rapper to win album of a year. She was the first artist to have an album and its lead single both debut at number one on the Billboard charts. On Apple's list of the 100 greatest albums of all time, her debut album was ranked number one, the best album ever made. Wow. Quote, raw, profound, and era-defining its mastery has never been duplicated. And it's certainly never been duplicated by our heroine who hasn't created,

another solo studio album in the 28 years that followed the massive success of her rookie effort. Do you have any idea who this might be? Okay, who do you think it is? I think it's Lauren Hill. The subject of today's episode is none other than multi-talented singer, songwriter, producer, rapper, and actor, Lauren Hill. Boom! Yeah! It's this track.

And let me tell you all about it. Originally a member of the groundbreaking hip-hop group The Fugees along with Wyclefjee's, along with why Clef Jean and Praz Michelle, Lauren Cappured solo success with her 1998 debut album, The Miseducation of Lauren Hill. So good. Since then, her career in personal life, as covered by the tabloid media,

have been a stormy sea of romantic misadventures, unsubmitted tax returns, failed Fuji's reunions, controversial statements, concerts that infamously start hours late, or sometimes not at all, and demands for a sophomore solo album that never materialized.

But, hey, as Hill famously stated in her iconic 1998 single, do-op that thing. Lauren is only human, and humans can sometimes be the tiniest bit messy. Josie and Mitchell, you know you better watch out. This podcast episode is about Lauren Hill. So, thank you, thank you. Wait, someone needs like a definition of a podcast opening?

Yeah, that was the ultimate, the ultimate opening. Number one, Lauren, I'm coming for your crown. I'm coming for the crown. Great. So what do either, I guess start with Josie, what do you know about Lauren Hill? Let's start with that. What do you know about Lauren Hill? So I know she was in Sister Act. When American Film Institute did their top 500 films of all time,

Sister Act 2 back in the habit was also number one. Yeah, good. They're doing something right over there. I know, I know the miseducation of Lauren Hill, her album. When you say you know it, have you ever listened to it through? Do you know the songs off it? Like, what's, or do you just know of it by reputation? I've listened to it through, but not recently. Like, I couldn't give you all the songs in order, that kind of thing.

Got it, got it. But I wouldn't recognize it. Yeah. I also know that she has got as a controversial statement or maybe not, I don't know. As a statement, she has said that she doesn't want white people to listen to her music. We'll get to that. Okay. We'll get to that. Mitchell, what do you know about Lauren?

Yeah, what do you know? Real similar. To Josie, I didn't know who she was until when I was, however old I was when Sister Act 2 came out. And I loved her in Sister Act 2. It's White Answers. We know her from Sister Act 2. I'm thrilled. I'm so surprised and happy that that's where you two were both introduced to her.

That's so funny. I saw Sister Art 2 in theaters and had already seen the first one. What a great experience that must have been. It was incredible and so good. And my family, I don't know, I can't remember my parents watched it, but maybe my sisters grew up watching that shit all the time. Good. And loved it.

It's a great movie. I don't know how old I was when I saw the miseducation of Lauren Hill in like a Best Buy or something. But I remember recognizing her from Sister Act too and hadn't really like, she's not someone I heard about a lot necessarily as a kid on VH1 or MTV or something. I wasn't hearing about her through pop culture. I remember seeing the album and being like, is she from Sister Act? So I bought it. Oh, good reason to buy an album. Yeah.

And it was. And so I think, yeah, this is also, I don't have any memory. of like Googling it like before that. For context, we're all late 80s. Josie's 88, Mitchell and I are 89 births, right? Yeah. So this is like, I'm pretty sure that album came out in the late 90s. So I was probably like in 98.

Okay, perfect. So I was in middle school. So it was a couple years after it came out. I bought it and I listened to it a lot. And it was like one of my CDs in my like little binder that was like looked like a leather jacket and I zipped it up with all my CDs in it. And yeah, I listened to that so many times and continue to. I think I've listened to it several times since COVID and shit.

Like, it's a great piece of music. Oh, God, is it ever. Another thing I have to say about that is I didn't know the thing about her saying, I don't want white people to listen to it until when I worked at American Apparel. And I worked backstock with a bunch of not white people. And I remember one time my friend put a Lauren Hill song on and then to apologize and was like, hey, I'm sorry. I didn't know if that's cool.

I didn't want to offend you because I know she hates white people. And I was like, she hates white people? He was like, sorry. But like, yeah, I don't know if you care. but she said, I don't care if white people listen to it. I remember being like, I don't care. Like, I'll still do it. It's kind of worrying if you, like, love white people.

Yeah, it is. Exactly. I think it's weird to. Neutral to dislike is the good terrible. I love, I love everyone, man. I do. I really, too. Yeah, but like, are you going on and I love.

I love white people. Josie, you're white, you're white and I love you. Oh, wow. Yeah, thank you. Mitchell, you know, on and off. Okay. Yeah, you're on and off. You have your moments.

Okay. I don't understand why you want to, would have an issue with that or would take that as permission to be like, good, I won't listen. That's how I felt when I was told that. I was sort of like, who cares? I'm going to listen anyway. One thing that I should say, I guess, about this story is that there's not really a particular central incident in this story in the way that there is for say,

Shaneh O'Connor ripping up the Pope or Shannon Doherty getting bounced off of two shows where there's sort of this centerpiece thing that they are most infamous for. This is sort of like a career of just sort of like people having a lot of like really strong opinions of her, the fact that she didn't do this sophomore album and all these little kind of controversies that bubble up. Like we'll be interrogating a lot of the perceptions, I think, of Lauren Hill. Is she a diva or is she a black woman asserting herself and that makes people uncomfortable? Is she really as late as often as people say, did she join a cult? Did she really say that she would rather let her children starve than have white people by her albums? Oh, wow.

Okay. I see. One last note. Her stage name for a long time since about the mid-2000s has been Ms. Lauren Hill. I'll just be referring to her as Lauren Hill for kind of short, but she's been working as Ms. Lauren Hill since like 2008, and I'll explain that. As regards musical criticism, I have no particular credentials other than being a lover of music, which I think is enough. On the more technical aspects of which I don't expect there to be that many, I defer to Mitchell, who does have the credentials, and Josie, of course, I welcome any expertise of yours as well. If I have it, I'll lend it. She's self-effacing, but she's one of the great musicians of our time. Josie's album was number two after the Miss Education of Lauren Hill. That's right, yeah. It's called The Missed Appointment of Josie Mitchell.

That's actually such a good title, honestly. It's good. So to expose my biases at front, probably won't be able to keep a lid on this, so just to get it out of the way, possibly my most mainstream music opinion is that I am a shameless glazer of the Miss Education of Lauren Hill. I could rave about it all day. I think it's everything Apple Music says and more. The run of bangers on this album is fucking generational.

Amazing hip-hop album, amazing rap album. Soul, reggae, there's some fucking Spanish guitar in there. The features include Carlos Santana, Mary J. Blige, DiAngelo, a then unknown John legend on piano. Oh, shit, really? Yeah, he's the piano in, I think everything is everything. He's the piano. When we talk about a portrait of a person, I think this,

album is a portrait of a person and among the best portraits of a person I've seen in, and in art. Just like a document of a person at a certain stage in their life, I think it's really compelling to me in that context. So that's kind of, that's my upfront there is that like, if you're listening to this for the attitude that Lauren Hill's miseducation of Lauren Hill is like not the best album of all time. If you want that challenged, it won't be by me. So come with me back to 1975. What were you doing? What were you doing in 1975? I was driving. I was driving. and fast, listened to Eighth Track. I was stepping on my pants with my flip-flops. I was draft dodging. Oh, yeah. Good. I was cutting myself shaving. There's hard times. And I was getting gonorrhea

every weekend. Well, you know what? Every. It's tough work, but someone's got to do it. I was getting gonorrhea every weekend is smoking weed out of fruit, living my best life. Josie, how about you? Were you having sex with Mitchell in 1975? No. Because if so, I got a bad news. I was wearing roller skates, not blades. I just looked like Linda Ronstat on that album cover. That's it.

That's all. Strong, strong. What about you, Taylor? Oh, gosh. Keys in a fishbowl. Keys and a fishbow. Always. Nice storm.

Wee. Yeah, yeah. Pineapples on the doorstep. It works. Well, Lauren Hill is being born in East Orange, New Jersey, later raised in South Orange, New Jersey. So get that right? Distinctions. Her mother is a school teacher and her father is a computer programmer and systems analyst. She's gifted from a very young age in kind of every conceivable way. She's creatively

gifted, intellectually and academically gifted, straight-a-student. From grades five to eight, she's school president, in which role she emphasizes community service, including promoting school breakfast program and building wells in Africa and other water-deprived areas. So very much, I think often throughout this story that Lauren Hill has Lisa Simpson energy. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Just like passionately motivated by some sort of sense of justice in ways that sometimes come out wrong, you know? Gotcha.

Very early in her life, Lauren falls in love with music. Quote, there were so many records, so much music constantly being played. My mother played the piano. My father sang, and we were always surrounded by music. Young Lauren pours through her parents' 45 singles from artists like The Temptations, the Supremes, Stevie Wonder and Roberta Flack, whose signature song, killing me softly with his song, would later become a signature song of Lauren's as well. She develops an eclectic taste in music, which informs her later work as an adult.

1987, a 13-year-old Lauren performs Who's Loving You at Amateur Night at the Apollo. Whoa. The Apollo's a tough fucking crowd. They'll boo you. Yeah. And that's sort of part of like the theatricality of the Apollo is that the audience, if they don't like you, they're going to boo you and you need to turn it round kind of thing. And Lauren Hill, little baby Lauren Hill, she gets fucking booed into the dirt.

Oh no, little baby. They have no compunction about booing this child. It is 198. We aren't even thinking about woke. We're going to, we're going to boo this. She's boring. Asleep. Yes. Deep in a rim cycle. Yes. To her credit, she turns it around. She gets like a positive reception to go offstage, but she apparently like cries backstage and, you know, the works. In addition to being a musical performer, Lauren is a young actor, appearing in roles in the soap opera as the world turns, Stephen Soderberg's King of the Hill, no relation. And perhaps her breakout as high school choir member Rita Watson in 1993's Cisteract 2, colon, back in the habit.

What a great subtitle. I am in awe of that. I'm an awes. The colon, yes. I think both sister act movies are such good, clean family fun. I adore them. You know, this is the PR makeover that the Catholic Church could only dream of, honestly. Oh, so true.

Because it leaves you with such a warm and fuzzy about like nuns and Catholicism. But it's sort of the story of, you know, Whoopi Goldberg is a lounge singer who sees like a mob hit and she has to go undercover at the nunnery and she has to like bring around their kind of disastrous choir. bring them up to eventually they're performing for the Pope because she modernizes and brings hip songs to the convent right so cisteract two sister act two now tell me about sis one of you both of you tell me about sister act too oh happy day oh happy day oh happy day oh happy day you're gonna have to hit a whistle note pretty soon here man yeah sure you want to do this it's like she's back in the habit she i don't think it's witness protection this time but they

just really need a good choir. They need her. She's super nanny this time. Yeah, she's super nanny because, and it's not just that they need a good choir director because they've got those now because the convent is like really popping. They've got plenty of good musicians. The problem is they have this one class of teens. And these are not normal teens.

These are main teens. These kids are tough. Yeah. They rap. It's Reese Witherspoon's best friend from Legally Blonde is one of them and she's a bad singer. I think that's her whole thing. You know, who else is in there? Lauren Hill.

Lauren Hill? Oh, yes, obviously, duh. Yeah. But we've also got Jennifer Love Hewitt. Yes. Jennifer Love Hewitt and her name in the credits, Love is in quotes, like you don't quite believe that's her name. Is this a nickname?

She's trying to know. Jennifer quotes Love Hewitt. She took it out for a spin. The kid who does Oh Happy Day is a guy named Ryan Toby. He ends up in City High. It's a great time, and Maggie Smith is in there. Kathy and A.K. Peggy Hill. She's in there.

fun time for the whole family. And Lauren Hill is, how would you describe Lauren Hill's character in this film? She is like a tough nut to crack. Oh, is she ever? She's kind of the leader of the bad kids. Yeah, she's, she's our young lead, let's say. Yeah. Because she's not like conspicuously doing bad things, but she is like, she's the ringleader of all the bad stuff. And she's resistant to whoope's shit. Like the other kids are kind of like, because Dolores Van Cartier, aka Sister Mary Clarence, is like a wonderful charming woman with a little joke for every occasion. They're all coming around because they're having fun singing, but Lauren,

she's, singing isn't for us, we're supposed to be poor. You know that. And if you can get Lauren Hill's character, if, you know, if you can really convince Lauren Hill's character, you get everybody else follows.

Absolutely. And of course, she ends up convincing. Yeah. Yeah, she's got a chip on her shoulder. She has the best voice of them all. Of course.

When she crack that. Because it's fucking Lauren Hill. Yeah. And yeah, of course, it's a really, really lovely. Go watch, you know, the ending when they do joyful, joyful. It's so good. Oh, so good. Oh, so good. Oh, what a movie. Yeah. As you two are saying, it's where a lot of the public notices Lauren Hill for the first time. Very winning performance. She sounds amazing. It's a big stage and she

nails it, yeah. And says veteran actor Cheryl Lee Ralph, who played Hill's mother in the film, quote, my God, to meet a 16-year-old Lauren Hill, this was a woman just overflowing, brimming with talent and confidence. You know, I thought I was confident. No. Lauren Hill was confident. with a capital C. Capital C. I believe it. Believe it. So while Lauren is attending Columbia High School with a capital C in Maplewood, New Jersey, she meets 15-year-old Praz Michelle, aka Praz, who becomes her bandmate.

And of course, this trio is rounded out by Marcy, some girl. But then she quits and is replaced by the only slightly better known Y. Clef Jeanne. Oh, yeah. To whom Praz introduces Lauren in 1988. but real ones rep the Marcy era, I think. Oh, okay. I only listen to the Fuji shit from when Marcy was in the band. Gotcha.

That's like the ultimate flex. Nobody likes White Cliff anymore, really, if you know what I mean. See how you feel about him as this story goes on. He's very much a character in it. What do you guys know about the Fuji's? You ever listen to any Fugis? I think I must, but I can't. You have.

Yeah, see, I have. Here I come. Or, ooh la la la, it's the way that we rock when we're doing our thing. That's also them. Yeah. And then the cover of Killing Me Softly with his song. That's the Fugis. That's okay.

Yeah. Lauren Hill as the lead singer. I have such a vivid memory of the Fugee's cover of killing me softly with his song, playing on the radio as me and my dad together were going down to like what was then GM place now Rogers Arena for some sort of event. I don't know if it was like a hockey game, Monster Jam. And this was the song on the radio and I fucking dug it. And when I hear it, it takes me right back there.

So the Fugees, a project initially called the translator crew with a Zed, non-ness, eventually becomes known as the Fugees, as in refugees, referencing the Haitian backgrounds of Wycleft and Praz and themes of resilience more generally reflected in their signature brand of socially conscious R&B and hip-hop. Lauren graduates high school, attends Columbia University, capital C, but her involvement with the Fugees carries her down a different path. And I should say I've seen this style as both Fugees and the Fugees. I'm just going to go with the Fugees because it rolls off the tongue. bit easier. It might be Fugis. The band gets picked up by Columbia Records Venture Ref House Records. So Columbia is like a repeating motif in her early story. Columbia University to Columbia Records, it's where we go. It's where we go. The first Fuji's album Blunted on Reality is released in 1994. It does modestly well, but doesn't light the world on fire, to which the Fugees attribute to the fact that they let the record label metal too much. They take creative control

over their next album and the result is 1994's The Score, a critically acclaimed smash. hit that catapults the group to international success. The score tops the billboard hip-hop charts for eight weeks. Among the many successful singles from this album, my favorite is the Fuji's cover of Roberta Flacks, killing me softly with his song, which puts Lauren's rich emotive vocals front and center. Great, what a song. Oh, oh. He's right back in that car, right next to Dan. Yeah, yeah, back when he was smoking cigarettes still. Aw. Fun fact, since we're here, did you know that the Roberta Flack, version of the song is also a cover. Oh, yeah? Who's the original by?

Person named Lori Lieberman, wrote the song, performed it. It didn't do any major chart stuff, and so it ended up getting put over to Roberta Flack. Have you heard it? Have you heard her version? Yeah, lovely, lovely, lovely. I'm so fucking in the bag for the Fuji's version that, like, that is still my number one, but I think Roberta Flack does a gorgeous version of this song. I didn't realize until I listened to it for this story, how much Roberta Flack's voice fills the space, because the instrumentation on her version is actually really sparse, but because of the richness of her voice, it feels really full. Another piece of media that somehow was like really big in the Lauren Hill verse for me was

this kind of okay but mostly bad movie called Conspiracy Theory that stars Julia Roberts and Mel Gibson. And she does the track for that. Yeah. And it's you're just too good to be true. It's the four seasons of Frankie Valley. Right. Who's also from New Jersey. Oh my God.

New York boy. New York boy. So she's, I feel like that's, well, you're just. You'll learn about it later, but she reps kind of Jersey a lot, especially in the miseducational Lauren Hill, on which this track would later appear. Yeah. I think it's very deliberately a Jersey nod, because it's Frankie Valley, right? Who is also on The Sopranos?

What Jersey royalty is Frankie Valley to be referenced by Lauren Hill and the Sopranos? These are luminaries. Jersey boy, through and through. I also remember another thing I had in my little binder was Dave Chappelle's block party on DVD. And she's the standout. Awesome part of this. Yeah. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Okay. Well, I'll let you get it. Of course. I'm recapping Lauren Hill's greatest hands. Of course that's the thing. Of course. Okay, good. Meanwhile, against the advice of absolutely everybody, Lauren and her bandmate, Wyclef Sean, have begun one of those secret affairs that everybody knows about,

which persists even after Wyclef marries another woman. Oh. Yeah. Talking about his bandmates, Praz tells Rolling Stone, quote, I think he was kind of like playing with her emotions. Killing me softly, if you will. With his song. The Wyclef Lauren relationship is, legendary in its own right and no small part because it shows up all over the miseducation of Lauren Hill. How about this lyric from the song X Factor? I keep letting you back in. How can I

explain myself? As painful as this thing has been, I just can't be with no one else. I know what we've got to do. You let go and I'll let go too because no one's hurt me more than you and no one ever will. That's the vibe. Yeah. Yeah. Seems a little toxic. Seems a little toxic. In 1996, right as the Fugis are hitting their peak, a man calls into the Howard Stern Show in a rage. He claims that he was watching an interview with Lauren Hill on MTV, and during this interview, Lauren claimed, I would rather have my children starve than have white people by my albums. There is no evidence that Lauren Hill ever said this. Oh, my God. This is all made up. Yeah. Wow. Oh, and that's what I know. Yeah. Yep. Yep. But that's how perfect. Yeah.

That's the dingo ate my baby. That's the dingo ate my baby. That's the dingo. That's the dingo my baby right there. It's an urban legend that's followed her around for her entire. It's to this day, people still think that she said that. It's wild. I was made aware of it by someone who was mentioning it in a positive light. Like they were like, we think it's, like, honestly, they're- Remember when Lauren Hill got whitey? Yeah, honestly,

they were sort of like, is it okay with you that she's cool and hates white people? And I was like, totally. Totally, I hate white people too, that. I'm the worst. Yeah. It's actually so racist and so fun. It's terrible. I remember reading about this on Snopes.com, the urban legend debunking website, back when I first got on the internet in 2001. On us sleeves.com.

It was one of my very first websites that I used to go to frequently. And there was an article specifically about this that said that it was fake from the year 2000. So like, as of 26 years ago, Snoop was like, she never said this. But everybody thinks she said this. To this day, everybody thinks she said this. It's not real. There's a complication because it does get read as like cool or like, you know. I think even if it is real, it's also like, who cares? Like, that's why I stand by that. But it makes it worse that it's not real.

Yeah. Because she has to answer for it or people bring it up. I feel so bad for her, especially because she's denied it a bunch of times. She's done a few interviews where she's like, I really want to get this out of the way. Yeah. I don't hate white people. Yeah. Yeah.

Even when I was doing my research for this story, I saw comments. Hunter is referring to this and even insisting that they'd seen the original interview, which doesn't seem to exist. MTV itself has denied that this interview happened. You still thought it was real. Like, even even talking to you right now. Yeah. Well, what about Howard Stern?

What does he say? Oh, Lauren called in to Howard Stern's show to deny it. Okay. Lauren literally spoke to Howard Stern to be like, hey. Howie? I didn't say that. Howie, baby. No.

That is, you know, I'm thinking about that phrase. That is a gnarly. I would rather have my kids starve than... It makes no. sense why would any artist, even if you believed that, why the fuck would you like say that on TV? Awesome. It's like, it's a pain thing you're wishing something horrible on your children. Exactly. And that alone is mean, like. And to come up with it. Man, she didn't say it. It's craziness, huh? Craziness. That is unhanged. And the second you look at it, you're like, of course she didn't say that. I know. That's what I'm thinking now. It's been so pervasive. It's like the Richard Gear gerbil thing, you know? It just got legs.

Yeah. Four of them, like a gerbil. just to kind of make this even clear. She says on MTV for real this time. A couple of years ago, some kid had heard that I'd said that I didn't want white people to buy my records, and that really, really hurt me a great deal, because I like to think that my music is really universal.

In 1999, she tells teen people, there are a lot of young black girls who I meet in my travels who don't have a lot of self-esteem. So if I communicate to them that they're beautiful, no white person should find fault in that. It doesn't mean that young white girls aren't beautiful, because they're just as beautiful. In a 2018 medium article, so this is now like fucking 20 years she's been trying to fucking debunk this.

Lauren says, quote, just to clear up an old urban legend that somehow people still believe I do not hate white people. I do, however, despise a system of entitlement and oppression set up to exploit people who are different. I do loathe the promotion and preservation of said system at the expense of other people and the racist and entitled attitudes it gives rise to. The lengthy history of unfairness and brutality towards people of color, especially black people, has not been fully acknowledged or corrected. The expectation is for us to live with abuse, distortion, and deliberate policies meant to outright control and contain us like we're not aware of our basic right to freedom. I resist and reject these ideas completely. Well said.

So there you go, white people. It's okay. Lauren Hill doesn't hate you. I don't hate the system. It reminds me it's a little bit of just a dumber and more pop culture, a very Howard Stern version of people. asking Tony Morrison, like, when's your white people book going to come out? Yeah. It's just like that.

It's just stupid. It's just like people have never heard of a black singer before or like a black musician. And it's like obviously racist. Yeah. I feel bad about it. Yeah, I feel bad about it. Yeah. Let's be quick.

Let's be quick. Much like, honestly, much like Sheney O'Connor, Lauren Hill is someone who's, I guess, woes in the public eye, are occasionally self-inflicted. This one is so not her fault. and I feel terrible that this is like the lasting memory that so many people have of her is this like quote that she never gave in an interview that never occurred. So with the Fuji's Red Hot, we're all starting to think about our solo albums. And Lauren feels like she has something extra to prove because everyone thinks that Y Clive

Sean is the creative engine of the Fugees, including Y Clef Sean. So there's an, I'm a genius, you know, one of those. So there's an element of competition from both a professional and personal perspective. These two are on and off X's. So let's complicate the situation. You know what always complicates the situation? Having sex? Baby, yeah.

A baby! Lauren is pregnant. It complicates things. Yeah. How do we know? As always, Wendy Williams. Oh, shit. Yet again.

Who's the father? Good question. At the time, Lauren finds out she's with child. She's dating Rohan Marley of the famous Marley family of musicians. although Rohan's a businessman rather than a performer. While Lauren is dating Rohan, she is also still having an affair with Y-Kleff, who is, again, also married.

Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah. Very European, all of this, very French, right? We. We, yes, we. There's much gossip around who's the father, but in the end we decide that it's Rohan's baby. As a result, Lauren is pregnant with her son Zion through the creation of her debut album.

She regards it as a really fertile time, in her life creatively and also as a important choice she made. As with our girl, Shnade O'Connor, who also got pregnant very early into a pop career, she seems to have gotten a lot of advice to choose her career over her child, aka get an abortion. Okay. Quoting from her song to Zion off the Miss education, think of your career, they said, a Lauren baby, use your head, but instead I chose to use my heart. I refer to this album, especially around this time in Lauren's story, I end up referring to this album a lot because like I say, it's such a coherent document of who she is and how she feels at this exact kind of moment.

Yeah. Lauren and Rohan moved to Lauren's childhood home in South Orange, New Jersey. They will go and have four more kids together. Selah, Joshua, AKA YG, John and Sarah, before breaking it off. In 2011, Lauren has a sixth child. Micah, the father of whom Lauren never publicly discloses and more power to her. Yeah. Let's talk about the creation of the miseducation of Lauren Hill.

Okay. I had no idea she was pregnant while she was making that. Fertile indeed. Lauren begins recording the miseducation in New York in 1997. She insists on writing, arranging, and producing all of the tracks, and is offered the creative freedom to do so. She's not alone in this effort. She assembles a group of musicians whom she dubs Newark, a little Bible ref that also represents their shared New Jersey backgrounds, Newark. Oh, I hear it. I hear it. Right? So rep in Jersey, again, rep in Jersey. Yeah. Newark consists of Veda Noble, songwriter Rishim Pugh, pianist Tejumul Newton, and guitarist Jojahari Newton. You don't need to commit those individual names to memory, but put a pin in New York as a whole because they become important later on. Okay.

Grammy Award winner Gordon, aka Commissioner Gordon, takes care of the engineering and supervises the project. What a commissioner Gordon, hey? Yeah. As for the Fugis, Praz's invite must have gotten lost in the mail. as these things so often go. Yeah. And the gossip goes that Wyclef wanted nothing to do with Lauren's solo album

until he realized it was going to be a hit. And then he expressed interest in coming in and producing. Lauren declines his offer. Okay. Okay, good. Boundaries are good. We like boundaries. Boundaries are good.

You're not going to get on this arc. In the words of the missed appointment of Josie Hill, that great rap hip-hop album of our time. Boundaries are good. That's the lead single off that one. Lauren recalls a lot of pressure at the time to be the sole oture behind all the album's hits and to defy the expectations the music industry placed on her as a woman. Step out and try to control things and there are doubts.

This is a very sexist industry. They'll never throw the genius title to a sister. They'll just call her diva and think it's a compliment. It's like our flair and vanity are put before our musical and intellectual contributions. According continues until June 1998, moving between New York, New Jersey, and eventually Kingston, Jamaica. Oh, wow. Yeah, it ends up in Jamaica for the, well, the Marley's, right? Yeah, yeah.

Now's well take advantage of that. On August 19th, 1998, the Miseducation of Lauren Hill is released, a play on both the education of Sonny Carson, which is the autobiography of black activist Sonny Carson, as well as Carter G. Woodson's 1933 book, The Miseducation of the Negro, which posited that young black people were being indoctrinated rather than educated by the American school system. The album's distinctive cover art reflects the education. theme featuring Lauren's face seemingly carved into a wooden desk. Very iconic piece of album cover

art. Yeah. I'll try to keep my analysis fairly limited, but if you take nothing from this episode of Bittersweet Infamy, please, like, treat yourself and listen through this album. The Miseducation Lauren Hill, it'll explain itself better than I can explain it. Musically, it's an album that casts a wide net. There's drum machines and live instrumentation. Lyrics are sung, spoken and wrapped. The tone of the lyrics ranges from braggadocious to confessional to aching. There are elements of many different genres, hip-hop, R&B, funk, reggae, pop, gospel. Most compellingly, Neo-Sole, which is a genre I discovered through this research, I'm excited to explore it further. Sort of like when they had like 90s hip-hop that would like sample Motown and, you know, soul from the past.

Yeah, yeah, cool. I'll chuck it to Mitchell because he says it's one of his albums and Josie, you were like, oh, I don't know if I could name all the individual songs, but you're obviously welcome to answer as well. Are there any highlights off this album for you? There's so many highlights off this album. It's all highlights. It's all highlights off this album. I love listening to it all the way through. You've talked about that.

But I love hearing a song from this album like in the gym or like at the mall. Yeah. And it'll be a surprise. A surprise. Radio. For most famous musicians. Their most famous song is kind of like a party anthem, a party rock anthem. Or like a dance or a very catchy.

Dancing Queen. Yeah. Whatever. And like, or it's like they're famous for their back. So you always hear that kind of vibe, like, whatever. But what I love is that with the miseducation of Lauren Hill, one of my favorite songs is nothing really matters. And like, you'll hear that fucking song in Target or something, which is insane.

Not in Canada, you won't, but I can relate to the general sentiment. One of the things about this album that is like, I really love is that it's tied together, as Mitchell, as you said earlier, these sort of skits about like young people being taught about love or just like discussing what their concepts and ideas of love are. And they're so winning and so charming. The young people in them are like, the moment you think that they're being naive, they'll say something like incredibly profound and thoughtful.

I really love these. And I think that Lauren Hill has sort of indicated that she sees this as a concept album in which it's sort of about like her learning about love. And at the very beginning of the album, it's like calling the role like some nice little like a concept. accompanying music. And when the teacher gets to the name Lauren Hill, she's like, he says it a few times and then moves on. She's not here in class. She has to learn these lessons about love, you know, maybe the hard way. Yeah. So good. Or where you can only learn them, which is

there's, there's poetry to all the interstitial bits. There's really like, it's, um, like I think it's much imitated the way she does it, especially. Never duplicated. Yeah, much imitated. Much imitated. Much imitated, never duplicated. But I do have to, I mentioned Kendrick Lamar earlier. And I think he was especially inspired and did it well with a lot of his different albums, but especially with Good Kid Mad City, because it's also, there's a poetry to his transitions too, and he's very much referencing her in the way that, like, we're getting not just his voice, or it's not just funny jokes or, like, him and his friends hanging out in the studio, which is so many of these types of things in other albums. It's like a band full of dudes, and they're doing, like,

fart jokes or silly voices. But it's, like, it's great when it can be about the artist so much and telling you so much about them and their intention, but also... It's very literary. Yeah, very literary. Exactly. She uses it. Very much so, yeah. It's so good.

Would you like a fun fact? Please, always. Thank you. The teacher in these clips is in the present tense, the mayor of Newark, New Jersey. What? Oh, my gosh. He's a guy named Raz J. Baraka. He was a teacher at the time that this was happening, and in the present tense, he has run for mayor of New Jersey and he won.

That is such a fun fact. He's in there talking. about like fancy Adidas? Yeah. That's the guy. Wow. That's a very fun fact. That is super fun.

I invented it myself. No, I'm joking. It's a fact. That's a real fact. That is a real fact. That is so good. Really like to know that. That's really cool.

So I won't dither on any one song too much at all because like honestly this is like Mitchell sort of as again, as you alluded earlier, you could have like three hour discussion about the way that this album uses samples or like the way that the Bible is referenced in this album, any number of things, right? Yeah. But there's a line. at the beginning of her song Final Hour where she says, I treat this like my thesis, well-written topic broken down into pieces. And it reflects, I think, sort of her approach to this album

and that, like, she's very clearly like, okay, this is what I'm going to say. This is what I'm going to say about myself. Here's a song for motherhood to Zion. Here's a song about me grown up, every ghetto, every city. Toxic romantic relationship with presumably Y-Clef, that's like three songs. Needs some air. Needs some airing out, you know? Hey, and I'm sure it's not just Wyclef, right? Like, I'm sure there are other relationships. her life that these songs are referencing. Superstar covers her meditations on the state of the music industry and also her wariness of her increasing fame.

This is a theme that comes back in Lauren's work in public statements again and again and again as she becomes more disillusioned with The Machine. The Urban Legend. Yeah, yeah. She keeps having to tell people that she is okay with white people and it's really getting to her. Similarly, her song Forgive Them Father is about her paranoia, about backstabbers. The very first lyric of this album in the song Lost Ones is, crazy how money changes situations.

Pay attention to that, you know? The arc of Lauren Hill's career actually really is predicted in this album, the miseducation of Lauren Hill, because already she's like, people are being weird about me. I hate being famous. People are being weird about me. I hate being famous. Just like all over the place. Yeah, there's a lot of great musicians and people bands where you listen to the most recent

thing they came out with that was forever ago and you're like, why didn't Los Lonely Boys keep making stuff or whoever? And you're like, why? But with her, I don't think that. Like, when you listen to Miseducation of Lauren Hill, it's like Citizen Kane or something where it's like, this is the big one. It's all there.

And like, I obviously would love if she released another full-length album. Everyone would. But the same with Frank Ocean, how he's kind of like, he doesn't always come out and say hi to everybody. But you kind of feel it in the music. It's what makes it so special. And you feel it in this album. You feel like her lack of desire to do it again.

She's like, I'm putting it all out here, you know? I remember that after her first album, Lana Del Rey, said, I never am going to put out another album. It's all there. It's all there. Then she ends up putting out the same album over. I know. I was going to say, I think she was right. I think Lana Del Rey did leave it all on the table and she just kept doing it anyway. She just kept coming back to that same table. Point being, she covers everything. Literally, there's a song called Everything is Everything.

So, the Miseducational Lauren Hill drops in August 1998 to massive acclaim, both the album itself and the lead single, duop that thing, debut at number one on their respective billboard charts, and to date the album has sold over 20 million copies. Lauren made 25 million off of touring and record sales in 1998 and 1999, so a big chunk of money. Whoa, and that's like double that now. Every time Mitchell Collins hears that song at Target, she gets a dime. At the 1999 Grammy Awards, Lauren is nominated 10 times a record for a woman. In addition to her own releases, a song Lauren wrote and produced for Aretha Franklin is nominated.

The 1999 Grammys kind of end up being the Lauren Hill Grammys. She sweeps the R&B categories and wins Best New Artist and Album of the Year. It's the first time a hip-hop album has won album of the year, and it's the first time a woman has won five Grammys in a single night. So as you might imagine, this windfall catapults Lauren to the stratosphere of A-List celebrity and cements her legacy as a groundbreaking in hip-hop. Notably, she's also a style and beauty icon, wearing her hair in free-form locks at a time when it's uncommon to see black women

rocking natural hairstyles in the celebrity world. The good times can't last forever, though. I know. It's a bittersweet infamy episode after all. You didn't think I was just going to say this nice lady, you know, released an album, and then we all loved it and it was over. I guess not. In November 1998, Newark, remember them. Newark, Newark, the group of musicians that she sort of convened to work on this,

they sue Lauren Hill. They claim that their contributions to the miseducation were not properly credit. or compensated. Oh. So apparently, the style of collaboration was such that everyone sort of contributed to everything. Everything is everything, right? Yeah. And Lauren consciously stayed away from offering folks contracts.

Quote, we all love each other. This ain't about documents. This is blessed. Oh. You see how that can get a little sticky. Yeah. That's rough. Mitchell, you said that you'd kind of heard a little bit of this story.

had you ever heard about this lawsuit around the mis-education of Lauren? I don't know about this drama. No. It's drama, it's drama. And it seems to have really kind of affected Lauren. I think this is one of the first, like, major kind of disillusionments she has with her new status. Quoting Newark's lawyer, Lauren Hill is not a musician. She's not a producer.

I dare say if you put Lauren Hill in a studio alone, she couldn't do it again. That's the slander police coming. Album number two for her is, not going to sound like this. That's probably true, but like, that's bullshit. Well, there was no album two, so jokes on you, buddy. Yeah. But also, no album two.

It was the Lonnet Del Rey thing. Why would album two sound like album one? You don't want it to sound like album one. You don't want to go back to the same table. Immediately when you said the thing about Newark saying that, I'm on their side in a certain respect, absolutely. Yeah. But that's not the same thing as what the lawyer for them has said.

Yeah. I mean, getting royalties and being compensated for the wide-reaching wealth that that album created. Yes, a lawsuit around that, but not around. Absolutely. I get that. I get that. And I see that how that all comes together in music and with filmmaking. Like, a lot of times some great ideas come about from different people or like the entire album is really a group effort and then one person wants to take all the credit and all the money. And I don't think that's fair. But like, there's this great story that I'll tell you right now that I remember listening to White Cleef John tell one time or maybe I read it. And it's about they

started collaborating for the first time him and Lorne Hill and they were in his house or whatever and he had like been smoking weed and put on a loop of Inya just going fuck yeah fuck yeah we love enya on bitter sweet at friend of the podcast end yeah and so all he did was like get stone and put on this loop the of Inya he had made he didn't even put it on for her he had just been trying to do something with it oh he was just baked and he wanted to listen to his ennial loop. Yeah. And he had made this great ennial loop that goes, ooh, who, who, who, who, who, who, and he meant to, like, he already had in mind, but he didn't tell Lauren this or anyone that he couldn't wait to put drums underneath it. He had already thought of that, like, oh, I can't wait to be like,

under the enya. And, like, that's what he was getting ready to, like, get baked and put on the inia. This is ready or not, here I come. But so then she walks in, unprompted, it's not even her track that she's supposed to sing on. She walks in and she just starts right away. She gets on the mic she goes ready or not here I come and it's a quote from a delphonic song so it's like she's quoting this iconic delphonic song and singing it as a quotation over in yeah and then he's like oh my god and then he puts in the sample from that song which is ba ba bum bum bum bum and then it's like this whole famous song all of a sudden and it gets them a bajillion dollars it makes them famous her contribution on that you could say like she's just a singer and she didn't write the

song that she's quoting. No. But it's like she's the artist here. She's the thing that made it magic. And he's the person who's like obviously contributing to. But I can see that dynamic with someone else would be frustrating maybe if they don't want to acknowledge what she's done. Sure.

Well, I mean, I think that like her voice itself is the instrument. You can't downplay that because nobody sounds like Lauren Hill. She has such a particular voice. But then on top of that, number one, I think to say something like Lauren Hill is not a musician instantly nukes your credibility. because yes she is shut up. Number two. The other thing that kind of, I think, comes into play there is, it's very clearly like her unified creative vision.

It doesn't diminish my understanding or enjoyment of this album to put it in the context of her having worked with collaborators because, like, I'm fucking sure she did. And I agree that they should be properly credited. Compensated. Absolutely. Absolutely. But in terms of, like, Lauren Hill is like an absolute nub and a novice. She was in fucking Cister Act 2. Show some respect.

Yeah. Cistract 2. People have been saying this about Mariah Carey for years too. I've probably multiple people say, like, well, she doesn't write her own songs, but like Newsflash, she does write her own songs. She doesn't play all the instruments while she sings because she's got to put all her attention on singing. And singing like Mariah Carey.

Yeah, exactly. She's not singing like anybody else. But also, like, she's doing whistle notes and shit. Like when you're, I feel like this is such a thing that men don't have to put up with as much as women, too, when like, when you're the creative director of a project and your job is to like say like this, not like this. We want it in black, not in white. We want turquoise, not yellow.

You know, let's say you could say that, oh, well, you're not a real artist because you scribbled in crayon, but like you didn't think to do it. I thought to do it. And I feel like that's the thing that's being devalued here is her conception of the entire album and the entire project. It's hers. It's clearly her. She assembled new arc.

And named it. Yeah. They're all there. You have to build a new arc. They're all there because of her. And it's wild that the lawsuit is like, new arc versus Lauren Hill. It's like, oh, you mean the group that I created? Yeah.

And didn't credit, apparently. And, okay, and it's worth... She got $25 million. She can maybe share a couple of pieces for the pie. Some of that shit. She'd go around. Check some shit of the guitarist, why don't know? Yeah.

Yeah. I gather that there was a lot of pressure on Lauren to do this album. The reference I saw a lot was Prince. Like how Prince would write, produce, record his own shit. And he was just like the sole creative thing. And I think she also felt this a lot in comparison to the Fugees and specifically Y-Klef. She felt like in some way she needed to validate herself and was being encouraged to do so by the studio for optics to be like the sole credited producer on these things. When really I do believe these people that like, yeah, we had some input in there and it was just kind of vague about what the, in the words of the missed appointment of Josie Mitchell, boundaries are good.

Boundaries are good. But it is classic music industry stuff, these dynamics. Our boy, Commissioner Gordon, he pops into Lauren's defense. He says that the album was definitely Lauren's vision and a powerful personal effort. Yeah. And you can see that. In 2001, the suit is settled out of court for a reported $5 million. A friend speaking anonymously to Rolling Stone says,

that was the beginning of a chain effect that would turn everything a little crazy. Lauren's a little bit fucked up from this. It's a bad experience. She has a little bit of trauma from this. That makes sense. I get that. As the new millennium crests, people are keen to see Lauren's next move, but if they're wanting a version of her that builds a celebrity empire, a Gwen Stefani, a Jennifer Lopez, they'll be

waiting a long-ass time. And this is what people broadly seemed to want from her, I think. We have vaulted you to fame, A-list fame, you're a beautiful young woman, you're welcome. Yeah. And then it becomes a persona that is ever shifting and ever-changing to. And performed. Yes. Which will learn that Lauren doesn't, as much as she is a performer, she doesn't.

want to perform Lauren Hill at all, clearly. Yeah. And, like, I think those are two great examples you use because I think of Gwen Stefani and Jennifer Lopez. Jennifer Lopez is a great actress, but both her and Gwen Stefani are certainly out there doing the work and have been all these decades. They show up and they perform. But I don't, even though, like, Lauren Hill never shows up to anything and she's

always late, I think of her as a much more rigorous and serious musician than I do both of them. Well, I think of hers, I do think of her as a serious artist. And, again, I'm maybe tipping my hand as we go through here. but we really will learn that Lauren like puts the art and the message above all things at the exclusion of things like fame. It's again, very Sheney O'Connor. Yeah, she's not a professional. Again, not to blame on the point.

These are both women who like are very literally like God chose me for this to give a message with my singing ability. And to turn my back on that would be like a betrayal of what I hold to be important. But there's all these kind of glittering temptations. Lauren's offered all kinds of mainstream work that she turns down. There are rumors that she said no to the Lucy Lou role in Charlie's Angels, for example. Oh. So maybe that was supposed to be Lauren Hill, although I like, that's just sort of like a popular rumor, but you know, people say it.

She also apparently turned down roles in Dreamgirls, the born identity, and the Matrix trilogy. Okay, that last one is a little bit of a bummer. Lauren Hill would have fucking kicked ass. And a little like leather cats. It would have been so good. Yeah. She's already given cryptic wisdom in life.

Yeah. Just let it roll. She actually, that's the only fuck up I can see there. She should have been in The Matrix. Wait, I'm about to give you another one. She accepts a part in the film adaptation of Tony Morrison's beloved. Oh, yeah. She gets pregnant and has to recuse her.

I remember learning this. Yeah. It seems like she regards all these potential start making opportunities as distractions from the purity of her music and her message. Quote, I'm just a vehicle through which this thing moves. It's not about me at all. As for the public persona of Lauren Hill, hip-hop superstar, quoting a friend, again, speaking to Rolling Stone, they did a few, like, catching up with what's the deal with Lauren Hill articles over the years. I think Lauren grew to despise who Lauren Hill was.

Not that she despised herself as a human being, but she despised the manufactured international superstar magazine cover girl who wasn't able to go out of the house, looking a little tattered on a given day. Because Lauren is such a perfectionist, she always sought to give the fans what they wanted. So a simple rent of the grocery store had to have the right heap. and jeans. Artists are a lot more calculating than the public sometimes knows. It don't happen by accident that the jeans fall the right way, the hat is cocked to the side just so. All of that stuff is thought about, and Lauren put a lot of pressure on herself after all that success. And then one day, she said, fuck it. Or, to hear Lauren herself tell it, people need to understand

that the Lauren Hill they were exposed to in the beginning was all that was allowed in that arena at that time. I had to step away when I realized that for the sake of the machine, I was being way too compromised. I felt uncomfortable about having to smile in someone's face when I really didn't like them or even know them well enough to like them. Yeah. People had included me in their own narratives of their successes as it pertained to my album

and if this contradicted my experience I was considered an enemy. After the miseducation, there were scores of tentacled obstructionists, politics, repressing agendas, unrealistic expectations, and saboteurs everywhere. I love it. So good. Tenticled

obstructionists and saboteurs have been thwarting our girl Lauren Hill and she is saying no more to the machine. Love it. Amen. Amen. In 2000, the year. Yes, Taylor, the year. In the year. In the year, in the year, thank you. No, I want to make a movie. I'll make a movie where like the opening title texting is it's like 2000. The year. The year. Colon. The year. In 2000, Lauren retreats into privacy, which lasts several years. She says, for two or three years, I was away from all social interaction. It was a very introspective time because I had to confront my fears and master every demonic thought about inferiority, about insecurity, or the fear of being black, young,

and gifted in this Western culture. Many attribute Lauren's sudden self-exile to her relationship with a mysterious spiritual figure who calls himself Brother Anthony. Sounds very culty. This is news to me. I don't know about... A little sussie... I don't know about Brother 12.

I don't know about Brother Anthony. Yeah. Under her new mentor's guidance, Lauren fires her entire management team and radically alters her life and priorities, telling MTV Online, quote, I met someone who has an understanding of the Bible like no one else I ever met in my life.

I just sat at his feet and ingested pure scripture for about a year. We know very little about Brother Anthony. Not a Googlerable guy outside of this context, really can't find a photo. He's in his 40s when he enters Lauren's orbit. We know that. And among Lauren's colleagues, friends and fans, Brother Anthony doesn't have the most sterling reputation. There's the general vibe that maybe Lauren has been preyed upon by a religious conman

seeking to control her when she's vulnerable and disillusioned. That's immediately what I thought, yeah. Yeah. Says a friend, his whole demeanor was real possessive, aggressive, and crooked to me. You know how people are slick? He's a quick talker. Another friend says of our boy, Brother A, I don't think he had a religion. I think he was more like,

My interpretation of the Bible is the only interpretation of the Bible. I'm the only one on earth that knows the truth. Prophet-esque. Yeah. So be careful of people who claim that they're pro- Let me, may I get on my soapbox, don't listen to random dudes who say that they're prophets. It's not real. Back to Lauren Hill.

I want to spread messages. Number one, Lauren Hill doesn't hate white people. Number two, beware of people who claim to be prophets because they never are. Speaking to Rolling Stone, yet again, Lauren's fellow Fuji, Praz, describes her relationship with Brother Anthony as quote, real cult shit. All right. Quote, Brother Anthony was definitely on some other shit. I had a tape of his teachings.

That shit is ill. Fucked me up. I can't really explain it. It was some weird shit, man. It was some real cult shit. When I heard that tape, I couldn't believe that this dude was really serious. He was saying, give up all your money. And I'm not quite sure when Lauren falls out of touch with this guy, Brother Anthony.

He sort of just like dissipates over like the. sometime in the mid-2000s, he's gone. But he seems to have been, like, real influential on her at this time, which on the one hand, sure, if, like, if she feels like she's benefiting from the religious teaching, sure. Yes. But he seems... Spiritually, she's being cleansed in some way, then... Sure.

Good for her. So, even though Lauren has mostly retreated from the limelight, that doesn't mean that she stopped making music entirely. In July 2001, Lauren tapes an episode of MTV Unplugged, on which artists perform acoustic versions of electronic hits. Any familiarity with this either of you, MTV import? Yeah, I remember watching few episodes, yeah. Okay, because we didn't have MTV. No way. You don't have familiar with this, Taylor. No, gosh, I learned about this to this. Oh my God, because this is some great stuff. We don't have this up here. We have much, we have much music. Channel 29. It's so good. It's, have you ever someone sends you,

like, a tiny desk or something? Yeah, yeah, I've seen some tiny desk. I, I've seen some good really good thing desk that I've seen some good ones too but like this is that but earlier and it's not just the gimmick of that it's you know acoustic it's that they're always fucking good as fuck I don't know what to say like it's like the best musician you've ever heard and not just that it's acoustic but like singing this song better than you've ever heard them sing any interesting it's always what happens in July 2001 Lauren tapes an episode of MTV Unplugged the recording of this set is released as an album in May 2002 under the name MTV Unplugged Number 2.0.

It's somewhat infamous in its own right. So I think at the time it was, like, I think it was always polarized. I think there were always some people who liked this. But I think broadly it was seen as like a public breakdown or like... Wow. She's so different, quote unquote, from what she was. And these songs, number one, they're a lot less polished, sort of by design. They're a lot less polished than what we're hearing on the Miseducation of Lauren Hill.

and she has these interludes that I think are sort of seen and received at the time as like ranting or rambling. I can see that. Yeah. I know what you mean. They are seen as rambling and ranting, but with that said, they give us a really clear idea of what issues are animating Lauren's heart at this time in her career. Quote, these are quoting from these interludes.

There was a period of time where I was just gone from the public and I came to terms with the fact that I had created this public persona, this public illusion. And at that point, I had to do some dying and really accept the fact that, look, this is who I am, and I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. Our will is a gift. It is given to us. So whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion, a part of us dies. Fair thought, like, she's not, like, there are some things that she says that are, like, kind of quite grandiose or can maybe come off a bit arrogant if you're not inclined to, like, take her out her word. But, like, a lot She says, I'm like, yeah, I know, honestly.

I feel like I'm reading Shnade's book right now. Here you say that because what I love about Shnade so much is that she makes me feel not crazy for like not liking a lot of that kind of bullshit sometimes. And because she's so real. There's such parody between these stories, right? And same with like that quote from Lauren Hill is like, makes me feel not crazy too because it's like, yeah, like it is actually a lot to unpack the minute people start to weigh in about you.

Not even if you're an artist, even if you're not an artist. It's a lot to take when you have to deal with other people. people's impressions of you that are not necessarily how you see yourself. And then, like, a lot of times that scene is, like, you're being so sensitive. Diva. Yeah, a diva, exactly. And she's not wrong that, like, there's such a constructed version of you. Like, like, Josie will tell you, sometimes I struggle under the weight of, like, being the

version of Taylor Basso from the Bittersweet Infamy podcast. Yeah. I can't, I can't imagine what it's, like, to be, like, people's most beautiful people. And they're trying to get you in the Lucy Lou rule for. Charlie's Angels. So Lauren also says, just to add to that, quote, Music was my love, and because of everything that I thought had to accompany my music, it became my burden.

It just got stolen for me. I said, what is this? How did this thing that I love so much, so easily and so quickly, turned to something that I loathe and hate? Here's one last pull from this album, kind of the little interludes. I don't listen to the press too much, but I know the view is that I'm emotionally unstable, which is reality. like you aren't.

So something, you can see how that gets like played as like a little bit of a, I'm fucking emotionally unstable, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. But then also like, me too, bitch. Like, you know what I mean? She's right. She's like, A too, Brutee. Yeah. Um, no, I feel it too, like from that time when you reference some of those other people

that are her contemporaries or, you know, at that era, turn of the century, it was such a brutal paparazzi world, right? Yeah, oh, God. This is the Princess Diana era. Yeah, exactly. The Princess Diana era. and like being a woman and being a black woman, you can imagine like the kind of feeling I would have

just like my sensibilities of someone being like, you want to do another press thing, you want to do another interview. And I could see myself being like, no, I'd rather not. And like, you know, I feel like when you're in that industry, people are like, wow, she's kind of a dick.

You know what I mean? Like, oh, she doesn't want to do the fucking 500th interview today that she's had to do. And she's touring and she's fucking all of it, right? Pregnant, yeah. You know what? Honestly, again, not to keep drawing it, Shade. Both of them strike me as people who were meant to be artists, but not celebrities. You know,

because being a celebrity comes with a lot of, a lot of expectation. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like today, there are less and less people like them that are famous and like are in these industries. I know, but I think it's because the job now more than even then is to be professionally. Oh, God. Social media. You have to fucking be constantly like, you got to announce your miscarriage at the same time that you're doing sponsored content for a cleaning product. Yeah, like, nobody... Nobody wants an artist. The institutions don't want artists.

They want professional celebrities. Yeah. And professional products. Yeah, professional products. And, like, a lot of all those people I'm mentioning are very talented, even at the art part, too. You know, they can do both and good for them. But, like, I really respect someone like her just being like, no, thanks.

Like, I like just, you know, yeah. So in the larger context of Lauren never releasing another studio album, unplugged pisses a lot of people off. We, the Royal We, want smooth Neo-Sole with silky vocals, and here's Lauren with a cracking voice, forgetting lyrics, noodling around on a guitar. As such, the album is remembered in The Lore as a disaster, a big, like, oh, Lauren's losing it.

There's always the implication of mental illness, which I will say I did not find substantiated in any way. Like, there was never a Lauren Hill coming out and saying, like, yes, I have mental illness, here's what it is. Right. It's always just been speculation. It's just like blood in the water. It also makes me so mad.

I'll bring up Bob Dylan. He's done a lot of things in his career that are very much like this. I think it's funny that people thought that her like noodling around if her getting lyrics is like unforgivable. It's like that sounds like Bob Dylan all the time. And like, and people. Yeah, no, honestly. But people, they do backflips to make that be his sexy thing that makes him special. Wow, it's crazy that he's so unvarnished.

He lets himself go. And he's just so. free. And like, it's all about the narrative that we put on things, you know? Yeah. No, for sure, for sure. Yeah. When you listen to it in 2026, Unplugged makes a lot of sense in terms of Lauren Hill's evolution as an artist. That feeling of a imperfection and incompleteness follows when you realize this wasn't her follow-up to miseducation. This was her giving the audience look at some of the stuff she was workshopping creatively. It's fucking MTV Unplugged. Yeah. Over the years, Unplugged, the album has received a more positive critical reappraisal. It's

been sampled prolifically. It's been cited as an inspiration by everyone from Solange to Adele. But at the time, it wasn't what we, the larger we, the royal we again, wanted Lauren Hill, and it wasn't who we wanted Lauren Hill to be. Lauren even addresses this directly on one of those spoken interludes, quote, fantasy is what people want, but reality is what they need. Amen. Cool. Another thinger. In December 2003, Lauren Hill performs in Vatican City. Oh my gosh. What happens next? Quoting Lauren Hill in the Vatican in 2003.

I'm not here to celebrate like you, the birth of Christ, but to ask why you are not in mourning for his death in this place, Holy God has witnessed the corruption of your leadership of the exploitation and abuses, which are the minimum that can be said for the clergy. I realize some of you may be offended by what I'm saying, but what do you say to the families who were between? betrayed by the people in whom they believed. And then she ripped up the picture of the Pope.

Did she? No, no, no, no. But she should have verbally. With her word. I really loved it like real queens insult the Pope. As you might expect, this generated plenty of controversy. The Catholic League, like it did with Sheneid stuck its or in, but I'm not going to give that a New York time because the Catholic League is a guy.

So there are rumors, I should say, around this time that, like, Brother Anthony was the motivating factor. Where was he? Yeah. But I don't buy that because this is so in line with all the shit that Lauren espouses kind of more generally. Also, it doesn't shock me. It's not wrong. Like, come on. Yeah.

She's right. She's fucking right. Tell them. Tell them. Tell them. 2004. Still know a sophomore solo album from Lauren. Despite a reported $2.5 million investment from Columbia Records.

Any time anyone gets asked about album two, it's coming, we promise, we just heard some of the tracks. Wow, they're amazing. Yeah. Obviously, in the future, we know this album never comes out, so I won't believe with the point. But please imagine throughout the background of the story that industry types are constantly assuring the media that Lauren's new album is coming soon. Also, please imagine that throughout the story, people are constantly wondering about a potential Fuji's reunion. Oh. And we are constantly being assured that, yes, it's coming.

We can't wait. The new material, it's going to blow you away, et cetera. In September 2004, the Fugis reunite for the first time since the 90s for performance at Mitchell. Oh, the Apollo? No, it starts with Dave and ends with Chappelle's block party. Oh, yeah. Dave Chappelle's Block Party, which I was in my little binder of DVDs and CDs. Directed by Michelle Gantry.

Yes! Okay, yes, directed me Michelle Gondry, absolutely. Cool. Of like eternal sunshine, of a million Bjork videos. Yes, science to sleep. A million Bjork music videos. In 2005, the Fugis opened the BET Awards, set a new material. And in September 2005, they introduced their first new track in nine years. Take it easy.

Groundwork is laid for the Fugees to have their triumphant return tour in Europe. And then, it all falls down. The reunion is canceled Among a cloud of drama Praz and Wycliffe both blame Lauren. It said that Lauren refused to perform Wycliffe's hot new song Lips Don't Lie

Later rewritten as Hips don't lie Given to Shakira Big hit Huge I didn't realize he wrote that I never knew this either He's on the song

He's like the featured artist on the song I guess I had the other way around though I thought it was Shakira's song And she just featured him He gave it to Shakira, but he also featured... It's like Diddy, you know what I mean? Yeah. Ricky, I want to be in the show.

Yeah, I didn't realize he wrote the song. He did. And apparently Lauren demanded to be addressed by everyone as Ms. Hill, MS. Dot Hill. Not Miss. Not Mrs. Ms. Ms. She's a feminist, this horrible woman. Quoting Praz, when she said it's Ms. Hill, I said, excuse me. And you know what? That sounds standoffish, but I do want to acknowledge that these two have known each other since they were 15.

Yeah, that's right. So that kind of colors the contest of it. Fair, fair, fair, fair. It's so rock and roll. It's like such a rock and roll story. Yeah. She also told me she was going to have people call her Empress. Now, Ms. Hell, I'm willing to go along with, Empress is a little out of pocket.

Empress is less cool anyway. It's a lot. It seems like she's got something to say when she's telling someone to call her that. I mean, but she's not going to back down on it. She's fucking Lauren Hill, right? Miss Lauren Hill. She's Miss. For Lauren's part, she tells Essence in 2006.

I'm Miss Hill because I know I'm. a wise woman. That is the respect I deserve. Later, in medium, she clarifies, Ms. Hill was absolutely a requirement. I was young, black, and female. Not everyone can work for and give the appropriate respect to a person in that package and in charge. It was important, especially then for that to be revealed early. I get it. Yet again, I'm like, yeah. I get it. I definitely didn't. Yeah. Miss Hill is just cool, too. Like, she owns that. Yeah. At this point, Lauren becomes infamous for her eccentric, erratic, and quote-unquote diva-esque, to use a word the woman herself hated, behavior behind the scenes. She's accused of not allowing staffers to look her in the eye,

aka the degenerous. And she begins to charge five figures for interviews. Quote, the only interviews I will consider are those that amply compensate me for my time, energy, and story. Sure, but you're not supposed to charge for anything. Yeah, yeah, there's a little bit of like... There's an etiquette there, right? I definitely feel like, I think it's a cool move and no one would predictsize her for just like not doing a lot of interviews and like that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure she knew that. Yeah. Yeah. In addition to her attitude, her fellow Fuji's highlight Lauren's repeated lateness. Okay. Here we go. Says Wyclef, I kid you not, every night I'm on stage for 45 to 50 minutes before she would come out. Tartiness would be. become a Lauren Hill staple over the next many years as Lauren becomes infamous for showing up to her

engagement, sometimes hours late or mysteriously canceling them at the 11th hour. You know, same. Quoting Lauren in 2016, I don't show up late to shows because I don't care. The challenge is aligning my energy with the time. Same. I'm going to steal that. I'm going to steal that. You know, my energy is not currently aligned with the time and it has become a challenge.

to do this. I think that's a beautifully said statement. Yeah. It's very inconsiderate. Yeah. But it's beautifully phrased. In 2021, Lauren features on the NAS song Nobody where she wraps the lyric. My awareness like Keanu in the Matrix, I'm saving souls and y'all complain about my

lateness. Now it's illegal for someone to walk in greatness. Ooh, that's good. That's good, but like, show up on time. I know. Also, are you regretting not being in the Matrix? Because I think she was Yes, exactly.

Like Keanu parentheses and me in the Matrix. As someone who's always on time, let me just say. As someone in the Matrix? Someone who's actually in the Matrix. I'm never, I'm fucking late all the time. I feel like it's not important to be on time. But if you agreed with someone to be like, we're going to start recording this thing, this album, we're going to start recording the album at 4.

And then it's like that other person has agreed to those terms and took time out of their day. You'd hate being a regular co-host of bitter sweet. Yeah. Because the other person in this equation has had to align their energies somehow. Yes, that's fair. And sacrifice their energy. As someone who is often late, I often feel that like, no, it's important to respect other people's time as well. Yeah, because that's how you feel when you're sitting there holding the ball.

And also when you're Lauren Hills fans and you're sitting there at 238, I'm waiting for her to come on. And you're like, I spent $200 and I did. all this stuff and I told my grandma I couldn't come to her birthday party because I wanted to be at my favorite singer's concert and then it's like oh I didn't make it time is money time is valuable time is all we got right yeah yeah yeah so one thing I should clarify is that Lauren Hill wasn't late when I saw her in concert you saw her Taylor you saw her oh yeah oh yeah of course you're just like keeping that till here you gotta save something for later in the fucking show don't you tell you can't give it all the way right up front don't tell us the robot

She was, so first of all, I should say that I had really good seats, thanks to a friend of mine. She bought the tickets for her sister and brother-in-law, and she gave me a ticket for free. Oh, my God. It's really nice. Wow. And I'm still really, really grateful for that. It was an amazing experience. And I showed up there, honest God, I was like, I don't care if you're three hours late.

I half-ass want it. Yeah. I think that's part of the show. Yeah. She was no more than 10 minutes late. She was 10 minutes behind the show, which to me, that's like a mic back problem or something. Yeah. And she sounded amazing.

I cried in the audience, cried my heart out. Lots of fun. Yeah. Wonderful live performer. Really grateful that I got to see her in person. Yeah. That's really amazing. Yeah. That is so rad. In 2012, Lauren Hill is charged with owing $2.3 million in unpaid federal state and income tax. You got to pay your taxes. You got it. They don't like it when you don't. They really don't. And they know when you don't. They see you when you're sleeping and they know when you're awake. Yeah. It's like, same. They know if you've paid your taxes, so pay your taxes for goodness sake. Yeah. On a statement, on her, what social media is Lauren Hill on in 2012?

She's on Snapchat. On her Tumblr? Oh, of course she had a Tumblr. Very good, very good. True artists had a Tumblr in 2012. On her statement on her Tumblr, Lauren says she has rejected pop cultures, quote, climate of hostility, false entitlement, manipulation, racial prejudice, sexism, and ageism. When I was working consistently without being affected by the interferences mentioned above,

I filed and paid my taxes. This only stopped when it was necessary to withdraw from society in order to guarantee the safety and well-being of myself and my family. So she's like, I didn't pay taxes because, like, my kids need to eat, baby. They don't like that. Again, they do not care for when you say these things. No, that's a real, not a good look. It's kind of paralleling the lateness thing, too, maybe a little bit, where it's like, yes,

You need to protect yourself and your time and your energy. This is very important. But also, there are other people in the world, too. The most important people who should pay their taxes are people who have lots of money. Who have that much money. Millions and dollars. Yeah. Yeah. I gather that Lauren is, and this is my word, not her word.

I gather that she's like a little bit like libertarian slash sovereign citizen in her approach to the world. Okay. Where she's a bit like, one of her friends was like when they were talking about, the fact that she never ends up marrying Rohan Marley. Her friend was like, she would be like, what's a fucking marriage, a piece of paper? Like, she's that kind of person. Yeah. She is, she is ingovernable, if you like.

It makes sense. Wouldn't want or any other way. Lauren pleads guilty, and in 2013 she's sentenced to three months in jail at FCI Danbury, the minimum security women's prison that once housed, Piper Kerman, the creator of Orange is the New Black. So when you watch, Orange is the New Black, that's the person Lauren Hill was in, more or less. Okay.

Whoa, okay. She's also issued three months of house arrest as well as probation. During her sentencing, she tells the judge, quote, I came to be perceived as a cash cow and not a person. When people capitalize on a persona, they forget there is a person in there. I am a child of former slaves who had a system imposed on them. I had an economic system imposed on me. So again, in the more literal sense, she's like the child of like a teacher and like a computer analyst,

but I think she's talking metaphorically here. Yeah, she's not wrong. Everything she says. She's not wrong, but also you can't like, it's hard to like make. It's hard to, like, make your claim that you're opting out of the economy. That's tough. I get it. I get where she's coming from.

I don't want to opt into the... Fuck off. But here I am. And so who, according to rumor, steps in to help Lauren with the kiddos while she's up the river? Wycliffe? No, but it's a parallel with the Shnade O'Connor's story, an unexpected parallel with it.

It's Prince. It's Prince. Oh, my God. What? None other than... With whom Lauren shares a... deep mutual artistic respect. After Prince's 2016 death, Lauren will perform nothing compares to you, also performed famously by Chenate O'Connor. In Minneapolis as a tribute. Oh my God. Is there a video of

this? I want to watch that. I wouldn't be surprised if there was. I didn't specifically see it. Were they like friends, her and Prince? They seem to have been respected colleagues, esteemed colleagues. Yeah, I don't know if he was sitting there like breastfeeding, mind you, but he did, he was in some way useful in this whole equation in a way that like, again, one of those rumored things that I couldn't find specifics about, but like, it seems to be the case. So Lauren does her time, pays her restitution back off to the races. Also, in 2013, Lauren releases her first single in a decade neurotic society, parentheses, compulsory mix. In it, she names among the social ills of the world, girl men, drag queens, and social transvestism. Oh, the miss education. Oh, wow.

Oh, and who. After criticism, Ms. Hill releases another Tumblr statement. Oh, okay. We're back. Neurotic society is a song about people not being or not being able to be who and what they truly are due to the current social construct. I am not targeting any particular group of people, but rather targeting everyone in our society who hides behind neurotic behavior rather than deal with it. Hmm. Okay, so now she's just like anybody who's neuroa typical needs to fucking deal with it.

I have a read on this. She's being like Brother Anthony. Or gay, you know. Yeah, yeah, gay. But I feel like this is, it's some brother Anthony shit where she's not making sense, but her whole thing is like, not everybody gets it really, but I get it. May I weigh in? Please.

Way, way, way, may I may I in. The miseducation of Lauren Hill is such a good album that Lauren Hill can say faggot. Wow. Is how I feel. Oh, wow. You just say whatever horrible thing you want about the LGBTQ community. It's a really. really good album.

Wow. Wow. You hear, dude, you listen to 2 Zion recently? That's your fucking slaps. Put it on. Yeah. Drop an F-bomb, yeah.

Hey, fuck on. She didn't, but I want her to. I invite her to. Yes. Yes. In 2018, Wyclef Sean reports that he and Lauren

turned down a $90 million offer for a Fuji's reunion. Whoa. Praz tells New York Radio Station Hot 97. I said, all right,

it's all good. You guys will never hear from me again pertaining to the Fugees. I want nothing of them. 2021. The Fugis announced a reunion tour. No boundaries. It's no boundaries. Boundaries are important the missed appointment of Josie Mitchell. We say this all the time. So the Fugees announced a reunion tour. It's coming in November to kick things off the trio appear at Pier 17 in New York. The show starts two and a half hours late. Classy. Three days before the tourist due to begin, it gets postponed for reasons undisclosed.

Oh. 2020, the Fuji's Reunion Tour is formally cancelled in a statement. The band says that, quote, the continued COVID pandemic has made touring conditions difficult. Yeah. 2020, Lauren goes on tour for the 25th anniversary of the Miss Education of Lauren Hill. On some tour dates, notably in Newark, New Jersey, she's joined on stage by Pras and Wycliffe. The second half of the tour is suddenly cancelled, with Lauren professing vocal strain. 2024. The Fugees are reuniting and going on tour. Three days before the tour, all dates are canceled.

Due to slumping ticket sales, Lauren attributes the cancellation to the media's quote, penchant for sensationalism and clickbait headlines driving away potential ticket buyers. Wouldn't that help ticket? Like, no, no, what is bad what? No press is bad press? Tentacled obstructionists. Saboteurs. I think that she's just like, she's making a whole career

in this stage of her life. I think she's a genius. Oh, yeah. This is about intentionally, instead of your energy is not aligned for the time, you are intentionally misplacing your energy over here so that maybe that tour doesn't happen,

but you can still get a check. But she got those taxes to pay off, eh? Yeah, no, I'm like, I see it. And it's like, just as COVID happened, she's like, let's reunite. Yeah. Hey, guys. But what about COVID? Will we be able to tour? She's like, oh.

October 2024. Praes Sue's Lauren Hill. Oh. For breach of contract and fraud, claiming that during their supposedly COVID-stricken 2022 tour, quote, Hill tried to usurp control of the group, including the exclusive control of the Fuji's trademark and all financial, creative, and business aspects of the proposed Fuji's tour.

He alleges the 2023 tour was canceled not due to vocal stream, but due to Lauren's refusal to allow an. audit of the tour. Whoa. Quote, We assert that Ms. Hill, so he's referring to her by the name she prefers. We assert that Ms. Hill represented

critical financial information and concealed her intent to take an excessive 60% of the tour's proceeds, leaving Mr. Michelle with only 20% instead of the group's customary one-third split. 33, 33, 33. Praz also releases a single

Bar Mitzvah with the lyric, people will remember how you made them feel if you kept your word, if they could count on you, if you come on time. Lauren responds on Instagram claiming the lawsuit, quote, is full of false claims and unwarranted

attacks. It notably omits that he was advanced overpayment for the last tour and has failed to repay substantial loans extended by myself as an act of goodwill. So Lauren's like, I gave him money and he's being a little bitch about it and now how dare he sue me? I wrote these words for everyone who struggled in their youth.

You know? Yeah. That's kind of the vibe. Yeah. So, whatever. happened to Lauren Hill. To recap, in the 28 years since the miseducation of Lauren Hill, Lauren has released features, singles, and an unplugged album, gone on tour, if occasionally slightly behind schedule, you know, calm down, performed songs for soundtracks. She's on the Surf's Up Soundtrack. The Penguin one? The Penguin one. That doesn't feel like a match at all, does it? I've heard it's good. I heard it's like a muffled. I heard it's like a much.

It's a camcorder. It is, yes, it is. I really want to see it. Oh, film club, perhaps. Film club perhaps. The mind belt's going well. She's on the soundtrack for Divine Secrets of the Yeya Sisterhood. Oh, I remember that.

Yeah, I remember that. A Passion of the Christ Concept album curated by Josie's boy, Mel Gibson. You asked, you asked before, what's Josie going to cover in episode 150? Well, I've got the sneak peek, and it's Mel Gibson. The biopic. Exactly. She's been sampled by a million different artists. You reference Kendrick Lamar, but like Kanye, Drake, a billion, a bazillion people.

And has been named as a musical influence by a million more, like I said. Solange, Adele, name after name, after name. She's won eight career Grammys, two with the Fuji's, six solo. She's written and produced for the likes of Whitney Houston, Mary J. Blige and Santana, Aretha Franklin. The works, right? She's raised and supported her six children, several of whom are performers in their own rights. variety claims that she was asked to perform at the 2019 Super Bowl alongside Maroon 5.

Oh my God. Weird pair. But declined in solidarity with Colin Kaepernick, the football player who was like taking the knee to kind of raise awareness of violence towards black people. That's really amazing. Also in solidarity with everyone else who doesn't like Maroon 5. She won't be loved. M. Dash Lauren Hill. In 2025, Lauren Hill, even a.

appeared at the mat gala. Fun. Which you wear? Like a lemon yellow pantsuit with some structural elements at a cape. Yeah. She looks incredible. A nice, like, turquoise purse. You were talking earlier about the difference between turquoise and yellow.

She united them. And a necktie and a little... It looks incredible. I will say one thing that I realized about Lauren Hill looking back on her style, even in the 90s, is she's always wearing a million accessories but doesn't look like it. Oh, my God. That's so true. She always looks quite simple, but she's wearing a bunch of accessories and they just all

look really good together. In 2026, Lauren Hill scored the Grammys in Memorium section with a live tribute to her former collaborator, DeAngelo, of Nothing Even Matters, Notability. Later, she and Wycliffe John reunited to perform a tribute to the late Roberta Flack, who popularized the Fuji Stable, killing me softly with his song. And just a month ago, on June 29th, 2026, BET gave Lauren Hill its inaugural BET Living Legend Icon Award, celebrating, quote, the pioneers who mastered their craft and never let go of the culture. Says BET, EVP, Cawney, Orlando. Her artistry redefined what was possible in our music and gave a generation permission to be fearless, spiritual, and free. Her influence is woven into the fabric of the culture, and it is a profound honor to celebrate her legacy on culture's biggest night. Among the names

that performed a medley of Lauren's hits at the BETT Awards and tribute were Dochi, Siza, Doja Cat, Queen Latifah, Nas, Ice Cube, the Warren Treaty, Tiroat, Common, Lizzo, and, Sweetly, Lauren's own kids, Sala and YG Marley. Hey! The roster naturally also includes

Lauren's ex-boyfriend and professional frenemy, Y'clock. Unfortunately for Pras Michel, he misses the occasion. He's currently doing 15 years in jail for funneling illegal contributions to Barack Obama's presidential campaign, which, who among us? Is that true?

Yeah, of course. But a twist to the story. I could have done this as a Fuji's episode if I wanted. I just didn't. Oh my God. Wait, how many years is he in jail for that? 15, at least. Oh.

15, if it goes bad. Money laundering to the Obama campaign of all things. There's a Malaysian embezzlement component. He was, like, lobbying the Trump campaign. Tucker Carlson's ultimate wet dream. It's like, oh, there's people toying with elections. They call themselves the refuge. They're the Fugees, and this person, whoever praises, is funneling money directly to the Obama Hussein campaign.

They have a song that goes, ready or not, here I come. They're coming for you. You can't hide. In her acceptance speech for the award, Lauren says, quote, I had wonderful parents who loved on me, poured into me, and protected me. And once I realized that not everybody got to have that experience, I felt like it was my duty, my responsibility, to share as much love, and to pour into as much people as I possibly could. That music was a way for me to do that. But also, I had always cared about the expression and the representation of the dignity of our people.

As artists, we put ourselves in places and in situations where we have to say things that aren't always comfortable. But we understand that people will understand later. Hmm. She ended the night's broadcast with a performance of Everything is Everything. So, what happened to Lauren Hell? As far as I can tell, nothing? Yeah, she's flipping along. She didn't go anywhere.

Yeah. She may not have released another full-length studio album, which selfishly is a bummer because that shit would have ripped. But that doesn't mean that she stopped creating in countless other ways. It seems to me that she's just an artist who, with her remarkable talent, achieved A-less fame, got a firsthand brush with the machine, decided she wasn't interested due to tentacle obstructionists and saboteurs, and blazed her own path.

Opting out of the expectations of others isn't the same as disappearing, if anything, it means taking up even more space. We'll give the final word to Lauren, aka L. Boogie, aka Ms. Lauren Hill. The idea of artist as a public property, I always had a problem with that. I agreed to share my art, but I'm not agreeing necessarily to share myself. The entitlement that people often feel, like they somehow own you or own a piece of you, can be incredibly dangerous. I chafe under any kind of control like that and resist expectations that suggest I should somehow dumb down and be predictable to make people feel comfortable rather than authentically express myself. And, as to whether she's changed over the years, as she simply says in an interlude on MTV Unplug, number two,

2.0. Anything that's not growing is dead, so we better be changing. God is changing me. I'm changing because that's a natural part of life. We're all supposed to change. Who wakes up and is the same way tomorrow and the day after that, nobody is. Let the experience teach you and be real. That's the truth police. They're coming because Lauren's telling the truth. That's it. That's the miseducation. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. Yeah. That's the miseducation of Lauren Hill and, and I guess, her subsequent education in being in the public eye. We learn from our mis-education more than we do our education. God, that's the fucking truth.

That was beautiful. I love the rare opportunity that I get to do something that I'm really a fan of, like when I get to come in and kind of just like fanboy out a bit. And I'm such a huge Lauren Hill fan. I think that her, she's such a musical, like, luminary. And I think that her album is amazing. And I think that I feel really bad that she, everyone thinks she despises white people and wants her kids to starve.

That's rotten. I feel bad about it. I love that you did this tribute to her, like while she's alive, you know? Like, I feel like too often, like these type of like... BET living icon. Living icon. Living legend.

That's why I like, I like the ending of this episode that's like, and she just keeps living. She's still around. She's still doing her thing. She was still making music. She's still making her, yeah, in her 50s. Yeah, it's like a really cool. Like, it's not a summation of her life.

It's just catching up with her now. Yeah. Every episode, we should check in. What's Lauren Hill doing today? That's a really good idea. Like, what's Lauren Hill up to? Lauren Hill update. Lauren Hill watch.

Check the tumblers. Oh, yeah. Get on Tumblr? I'm gonna start blogging. See what she's saying. Mitchell, take us away. You seem like you have some wisdom. Mr. Collins.

Mr. Collins, I'm seeing some wisdom in your eyes. Love is attention. Love is the time we take for something. So beyond time. Exactly. Love is punctuality. No, but love is attention. And it can also mean,

Love is showing up. It's showing up for your fans to perform a concert, but it's also maybe choosing to show up for yourself and stay home. And there can be love that's a choice and love that isn't a choice. Love that makes life harder, but you feel nonetheless. I feel like love is a thing that we don't always get to choose, and sometimes we do. And it sometimes makes things better, but it also makes things harder. Love does make things harder.

It makes things more complicated, which can be harder sometimes, but sometimes it makes it richer. I guess I don't say love makes things harder as a regrettable thing or like too bad. Right, yeah. But I say that because of that richness, sometimes, like, molasses takes a long time to go down the drain, you know? Yeah. But I think love is everywhere.

I say that it can be intentional or unintentional just to say that it abounds. You can think that you didn't act in love and you did. And sometimes it's complicated. Love is complicated. Thanks for listening. If you want more infamy, we've got plenty more episodes at bittersweetinfemy.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you want to support the podcast, shoot us a few bucks via our coffee account.

At K-O-HifinFi.com forward slash bittersweet infamy. But no pressure. Bittersweet infamy is free, baby. You can always support us by liking, rating, subscribing. Leaving a review, following us on Instagram at Bittersweet Infamy, or just pass the podcast along to a friend who you think would dig it. Stay sweet. A great many of my sources this episode were articles from Rolling Stone,

including Q&A Lauren Hill by Kevin Powell, September 17th, 1998. The Mystery of Lauren Hill by Toray, October 30th, 2003. Inside the Miseducation of Lauren Hill by Laura Checkaway, August 26, 2008. Ms. Lauren Hill speaks in depth about Facebook. Name, Racism, and Miseducation by Brittany Spanos, January 26, 2021, and Killing Us Softly With Their Drama, 30 Years of Fuji's Controversies by David Brown, October 11th, 2024. Additionally, I read The Miss Message of Lauren Hill by Andrea Lewis for the Progressive April 1st, 1999. The Miselucidation of Lauren Hill on Snopes.com by Barbara Mickelson, published

November 2,000. Was Hill influenced to attack Catholic Church by Jeanette Wells and Ashley Pearson for today, December 16th, 2003. Whatever Happened to Lauren Hill by Tiffany McGee and Alex Tresnyowski, People Volume 70 Number 7, published August 18th, 2008. The Confessions of Lauren Hill by Teresa Wilts

in the Route, August 20th, 2008. Chart Juice Drake's Domination, the latest chapter by Carina Santiago and Billboard.com February 17th, 2012. I sourced a post from Ms. Laurenhill.tumbler.com dated May

31st, 2013. Addressing Robert Glasper and other common misconceptions about me in no particular order by Ms. Lauren Hill on medium August 27th, 2018. Cheryl Lee Ralph says, 16-year-old Lauren Hill was brimming with talent on set of Sister Act 2 by Virginia Chamley for People, June 19th, 26. Watch Ms. Lauren Hill tribute with Siza, Dochi, and Naz at BETT Awards 2006 and pitchfork by Nina Corcoran, June 29th, 26. Lauren Hill receives Living Legend icon award after incredible tribute at 2026 BET Awards. I want people to know what we can do. By Angel Diaz for Billboard, June 29th, 2006.

I read the bio of Lauren Hill on the Kennedy Center website, and I read the bio of Ros J. Baraka at the Newark, Newark, Newark, New York, New Jersey website's Office of the Mayor page. You can learn more at Newarkn.j.gov. Last, I read the Wikipedia articles for Fuji's Wyclef John, Prasmichel, the Miseducation of Lorne Hill and Lauren Hill. We would love for you to join us over at the Bittersweet Film Club, which you can do by becoming a monthly subscriber at our coffee account, K0-Fi.fi.com slash bittersweet

infamy. We're so very grateful for our good friends in the film club, Terry, Jonathan, Lizzie D, Erica Joe, Sof, Dylan, and Satchel. Bittersweet Infamy is a proud member of the 604 podcast network. The background tracks during the interludes were all by Alex Morgan, including Lofi, chill vlog beats, Lo-Fi Midnight Club, and Lo-Fi Coffee Shop. Our interstitial was

by Mitchell Collins, and the song to which you are currently listening is T Street by Brian Steele. Did I tell you what my idea for Cister Act 3 is? I would love to hear it. The title. What? Cisteract 3, Old Habits, die hard. Of course. Colin. You forgot the colon.

Well, answer, why? You wouldn't do a school again. You would do, because the first one's the convent, the second one's the school. Oh, right. For maybe the third one, it would be... Vatican City. It would be the Vatican.

You've got to go back. Someone's trying to kill them. You're right. I've got it. I've got it.