Bittersweet Infamy - #86 - Self-Insert

Episode Date: December 3, 2023

Guest host Amanda Ortiz tells Josie and Taylor about the web of fate connecting the September 11 terrorist attacks, My Chemical Romance, Twilight, and 50 Shades of Grey. Plus: the local legend of Jim McIngvale a.k.a. Mattress Mack, Houston's best known gambler, philanthropist, and furniture baron.

Music Welcome to Bittersweetim. I'm Taylor Baso. And I'm Josie Mitchell. On this podcast, we share the stories that live on and in the... To strange in the familiar? The tragic and the comic? The bitter and the sweet. Josie, you're going to be a ranger. You're going to be the anchor for our Simpson's trivia team. I did watch it a lot as a kid. I haven't watched the new stuff. Oh wow. See, I didn't know this about you. I didn't know that you were a Simpsons fan.

Oh, I've not told you that's how I understood Daylight Savings time. I was like, Simpsons will come on at night now. Oh, because it came on at like 6 p.m. It was like, oh, Simpsons comes on when it's dark outside now Versus when it's like daylight. Yeah, yeah, wow. Yeah, because the Simpsons time slot was not changing No, but they were like was yeah, but the daylight was I was raised by a single mother so there there we go I was raised by a single mother so there there we go My other friends were like can't can't watch they couldn't watch Simpson's there's a few other ones that were like no go

Yeah, yeah, I had a couple of like religious friends. I think in school. Yeah, we're like We can't watch the Simpson's word Jehovah's Witness. Yeah. You know? Yeah. No spare. Yeah. No Christmas. No Simpsons. I was allowed to watch the early seasons, like the first two to three. I think we had on DVD. It's a box set.

Do you know? I know. It was really cool, but my mom was like, you're not allowed to watch any of the new ones, because they're too rude and vulgar. Oh. She was like, but the early stuff was pretty funny. I'm like, Blanca early stuff was pretty funny. I'm like, Blanca, what are you talking about?

That's so good. That's fun. I love that. She's a hipster. It was, you're gonna walk shit before it was cool. Exactly. She's like, all of the early stuff holds up. If Homer's voice doesn't sound weird, we don't want it.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. If the animation isn't like super scratchy. Yeah, it was a different show then. It was a bit of Tracy Aiman. Yeah, she, yeah, if the animation isn't like super scratchy. Yeah, it was a different show then It was a little Tracy Aman. Yeah, she had her own show and they were like the little animated feature in the show That's like when they got yeah, but this isn't a Simpsons podcast. No, not today. This is better sweet empathy me Do we are here with a special guest? Amanda Ortiz, Josie, do you want to tell us?

I mean, so we kind of we have two roots here. Do you want to tell us about Amanda or does Amanda want to tell us about herself? Oh, I mean sure I'm happy to jump in. Yeah, my bio loosely is to the effect of I Oh gosh, I mean door tees. Brad Living Houston. Houston! I'm a poet. Oh, I am a non binary person Who boo is she and their pronouns, which is for a different podcast on a different day Josie gave up on her gimmick there. I noticed as well. She knows that was gonna be a long Drink it some, soup the throat. Yeah.

Um, and I do local community poetry organizing. I work with the Print Magazine, which is also an online scene and a poetry open mic. We're called the Odessa Collective. Odessa Collective! Check them out! Plug it. Very cool! Plug it, the open mics are rad. If we want to check out the Odessa collective, do you all have like a social media presence? Absolutely, we are on Instagram as Odessa collective HTX and our website is She's in Texas. Oh, I thought it was like we hate acts. The website is Odessa Collective.com. Yes, HTX. Shorthair Houston, Texas. Yeah, but maybe.

Good. No. Strong. Born and raised. I'm born and raised. Originally from originally from yeah, yeah. What is your perception of Houston as a city? And I asked that because I Know that I am conscious of fluffing up Vancouver on the podcast I think that Josie and I are both conscious of fluffing up San Diego on the podcast

Because it's where we're it's where we're going pods. Yeah, it's where we're from originally, right? And so if Houston's where you're from originally, what is your view of this? I don't know if I have a strong thing to plug about Houston, but I always tell people I'm so happy that if I was going to be the kind of person that never left where they were born, that I got to be born in Houston. Oh, it's not a bad place to be. Oh my god, you're a poet. Oh my god. We're just gonna hold hands, the whole thing. Yeah, let's just hold hands. What keeps you sick, fucks. Better word.

What keeps you there? You're the answerer. I know, I know, I know. I don't know what it is. It's you. What keeps you in Houston? The people, all of my friends, my families here, I'll go explore the world one day.

I've got to get that MFA baby, but until then, Houston's my happy home. Yeah, there's so much. Happy. There's so much. There's great food. Food's really good. There's so much to do all the time.

Like, there's constantly, like an event to go to. Yeah. Which is a gift and a curse. Let me sleep people. Yeah. The city that never sleeps. Yeah. Houston.

The city that never sleeps Houston. Can't go to bed in Houston. They won't let you. They don't. No. We're in bedrooms, but we're not in bed. That's cute. And I also want to add that Amanda and I met at the University of Houston.

Yes. Go Cougs. Amanda. What? Okay. Strong opposition. We're going to fight. No, no, go Puts. Go Puts. Oh, and fuck the Astros, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm not going to cheat. Oh, and fuck the Astros. Not fuck the Astros.

See, when I say that the Astros are a bunch of dirty cheaters, I genuinely say that with affection in my heart because I love the heels. So that gives me, like, I'm like, those are, those are, they should start cheating again. They should bring the cheating back, as my take. Yeah. It keeps it spiced it up.

They need to start cheating on the field and then when the audience booze, you wait till the umpires don't look and then you flip them off, you make little girls cry. That becomes your gimmick, you become that team. Lean in, it's a struggle. Lean in. Yeah, that's what that is. Always double down.

Uh-huh. That's what I think. But go on. Amanda coined one of my favorite titles when I was teaching at UH, Agjumped Mitchell. Yeah, you were teaching Agjump. Yeah, it was not just respect. No! Some people think to this day they're like,

and I'm like, no, I meant it because like, they were badass and you were in Agjumped and I loved you. And I'm like, Agjumped Mitchell, Goddammit. Agjumped Mitchell, that's me. They thought that you were doing some sort of like Virginia Wolf-esque academic head-fuck on her? Yeah, like knocking her down a peg. Like you're not a real professor, you're just a graduate student. Which like, no, I had a lot of respect and admiration for the fact that you were like balancing your own work and writing

and then like doing all the damn things to teach us sick little fucks and keep us in line. Damn dude. That's so sweet! Look at that! I do want to bring a small mint for this. In the spirit of a true Houstonian here as our guest, Amanda Ortiz, no middle name, just to clear things up. Thank you for clearing that out. We should have started that at the top of the bio. My name is actually Amanda, no middle name in air quotations or tees.

Or tees, yeah. Yeah. I want to bring the story. I want to also welcome into the room a Houston icon, a Houston legend, a Houston asshole. Oh, I'm excited. Mattress Mack. Wow. Clearly we're clearly we're doing the local color here. We're doing a little local local color for sure. Amanda is

Beside herself with joy. Yeah, face a static gray knife. We're talking about mattress mag. Yeah, what is that? What do you know? What do you know about mattress mag? How can you explain it to perhaps someone who doesn't know mattress mag like Taylor here? I suspect we have our own mattress mag and Dodds furniture up here. Dodds furniture cut to Dodd dressed in a superman outfit up and save.

Is this your mattress mag Mac kind of vibe? Yeah, to be sure. He's a Houston mascot, but he's a man. And he's a myth. And legend, a legend, correct. That's the next one. He's, I think now it's 2023. He's sort of a problematic fave.

But it used to be. I would assume. Yeah, of course. By now, who, you know, I'm not. As they say in the fairy tales, you don't stack up your mattresses without finding a pee underneath it all, you know, that little pee. I've heard that.

For problematic pee for problem, yeah. Oh yeah, that's it. And we found the pee. You know. At Gallery Furniture, where Houston Proud, P for problem. Yeah, oh yeah. That's it. And we found the P. At Gallery Furniture, where Houston Proud, beautiful bedroom furniture at reasonable prices, you looked all over Houston. You looked all over South Texas, you couldn't find it. Well, come out to Gallery Furniture at 6,000, 6, I-45 North between Ted O'on Parker. You'll find the bedroom furniture you want at the price you've always wanted to pay. You look high, you look low, you scouted all over South Texas trying to find a selection of beautiful side-of-the-out dining room furniture.

There's nothing glamorous at all about drugs. All it is is total destruction. All those drug dealers want is your money. When they're through with your money they take you and they crumple you up and they throw you away like a paper towel. Please be strong. Stay in order drugs and say yes to the rest of your life. Turn to Gallery Furniture on Sealy Parts your feet in the world. Number one selling line of sleep suits. Gallery Furniture really well. Now that's the chip off the old mattress.

You got that right. At Gallery Furniture we believe in family, we believe in America, and we believe in home. We're in mattress Sullivan introducing right here on our shoe today, Mattress Mac. That's right, come on to Gallery Furniture, 6,000, 6-I-45 North Twin Tiddle Plaker. I'm the fastest man alive. No, I'm the fastest. Okay guys, for the last time. No more running in here. Mattress Mac! No, I'm the measures make I got a king size mattress there's good for your back got queen size Soul size even got queen You do fine it's in cry with me This sweet golf TV's month's gold

D'all six nine four five seven oh West six thousand six five forty five more Between two well and four I got my my my my my Woo woo woo woo hey you money Queen T. Willop walk out right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right right I'm gonna be a whipped cream. It's your time of gachi tape. Oh, it's all coming. You're getting all of it at once. My furbies, my pugs, my pants, my pugs. I have my pet rocks. See, you're so up to date on the floor. Oh, and then I'll hand off to Amanda for a Houstonians take.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or I guess, maybe it's best to go me and then an immigrant to Houston's take. Oh yeah. And then a born and a brand-new story. Work our way to the peak. That's going to happen. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So we're coming across the spectrum. This is the mattress Mac reaction iceberg. Yes. So love it. Really, really enjoyed that. Really, really enjoyed that. I really, really enjoyed that. I was impressed at the profile

that mattress Matt clearly merits, given that he had big name sports stars. He had Chuck Norris in there. I liked the variety of gimmicks. I thought that some of the impressions were painful. I thought that had Sullivan won. That

had Sullivan won, took away years from my life. Yeah. But broadly, I was compelled. Like I said, we had our own kitschy mattress guy. It was Dodd's furniture. And he would always do these different themed commercials of his family and them and stuff like that.

Just across the border in Washington, we had honk when you drive by Vern Fonk. I think he was like an insurance guy to the point where when we were driving down to see Countess Luans Cabaret in like 2018, or so we saw Vern Funk and I was like, yo, you need to hit the horn. Oh, no.

Oh, you're driving by Vern Funk. Which I imagine the neighbors in that strip mall just fucking low. Oh yeah. Whatever fucking spa has to set up next door to Vern Falk. Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr the pond moving here because he is like a big advertiser, like kind of a big businessman name, but also like very much involved with the Astros, he loves baseball. Yeah, yeah, the Astros. I would imagine probably a philanthropy profile. Big philanthropy profile, yes. Yeah, yeah. I think when I like really tapped into him, besides just being like, oh the funky mattress guy, like there's a jingle and there's a gimmick was Hurricane Harvey because he opened up gallery furniture the name of the showroom

for people I remember hearing about this. had flooded out of their homes. The showroom is filled with like any furniture store it's filled with displays of bedrooms displays of like the end table and the lamp and so people were just like, well, I guess this is my bed for the next three nights or whatever like that. So people like camped out. Big hotel, big big open plan hotel. Yeah, yeah, and no wall is hotel. Yeah. So it was kind of delightful to see some of these older ones because I've only really seen him as an as an older man. So seeing him in his younger self and knees and all the jumping, there's a lot of movement, a lot of movement, a lot of mania happening. How about for you Ortiz, like what was, yeah I hadn't seen some of those really early ones. Yeah I also had that similar

like, damn, oh we don't look bad. Why are you guys are really trying to put it's the mattresses? So can you do that? Maybe that's it. There's always a mattress right there and at a low low price. Yeah, that's true. That'll get anyone going I think. Yeah, but I loved all of the bits where they were just wearing their own merchandise. Like they really like carved out these twin size mattresses and wore them as these dresses.

Yeah, that's amazing. They were probably damaged. That was a write-off for this. Oh, true! Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was thinking it was more like a, you got to spend money to make money kind of a thing, but they probably were damaged. Did you grow up with mattress smack as a presence in your life? Absolutely, yeah, the commercials continued. And he would just pop up in the news all the time because like Josie said,

and like you immediately got it on the nose like, this guy's a philanthropist for Houston. Yeah. Big business man who gives back local success stories. Right. A man of the community. Sure, a big gambler too. Oh yeah.

He loves to gamble because that's some of his stick with Abertros. This is true. This is like true. The Astros win the World Series. I'll give you a free mattress. Buy your mattress a rule. You can come back and get a refund on your mattress of the AUSHIE USER NESTROES where the World Series goes. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, Do more weird hands. Come up innovate new ways drone shit. This is Don't mess with Texas at the fucking Alamo Alamo or go home. It's true. GoHo or GoHo. Get the fuck out of James's if you don't care about the Alamo. It's just an empty building. It doesn't make sense.

GoHo or GoHo or GoHo or GoHo or GoHo or GoHo or GoHo. Go back where you came from California. I'm so sorry. I also want to say, independent of any questions of like cultural sensitivity Let's say for example. I thought that rap at the end was really give it. Oh my god. It was kind of a banger Yeah, I was I was like the more the longer it went the more I was like these guys got bars. This is a yeah I wonder who wrote it. I think I think that guy in the Pimpsuit was his son. Really?

It's the Pimpsuit, the party city Pimpsuit. Yeah. It really was. You don't think that Mattress Mack is right in his own bars? Return to the mattress, Mack. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think so. Our boy, Mattress Mack.

That's actually not his name. His name is not Mack. His last name is not his name. His name is not Mac. His last name is not mattress. Well, I thought his first name was mattress. His parents had big dreams for him and they all came true. No, his name is Jim McEnvale. So I'm assuming the Mac that is for Mac and Mac. Yes. Yes. Yeah. He as we've discussed is extremely well known in Houston, an icon of, I think there was a while there where like the St. Candles, he was like featured on his own St. Candle. Like, if you know Houston at all, you know mattress mac. He wasn't born in Houston though. He was born in Mississippi, not even Texas. Wow. Yeah. I just saw a mandor tease find out that torn is a

stun. Stunned. So like wow. That can't be right. No that doesn't feel right. That doesn't feel right in my heart. What are your sources? He was born in a mattress, but in Buffalo, by you. What are you talking about? Grip on a mattress, far. Yeah. 1951. He's a February 11th baby. As a young kid, he did move out of Mississippi and he moved to Dallas.

He grew up in Dallas. Dad, insurance guy, mom, stayed home mom, five kids. High school football. He was, you know, mom, stay at home, mom, five kids. High school football. He was a, you know, linebacker, one of those things. He took the field by storm. He was known along with his compatriot as the terror twins. He took the field.

Wow. He took the field by storm. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Enjoy that one. You would think he'd gone pro. No, I love that turn of phrase. Really of you think. Yeah, okay, good. I know, enjoy that one. You would think you'd gone pro.

No, I love that turn of phrase, really, of you think you'd think you'd go. Yeah, okay, good, good. He started his bedding habit pretty young in high school. His parents were relatively well off, so he had some extra income, and he was always, according to a high school buddy of his, always bedding heavy.

I don't know about that. Yeah, I don't know about that habit. It I don't know about that. Yeah, yeah. I don't know about that, have I? It's a bit of feelings there. Yeah, yeah. He went on to UT Austin and then he transferred to University of North Texas, all playing football. Gapats. Yeah.

In 1975, he married a woman by name of Cynthia Potter who was an Olympic, she is an Olympic diver. Wow. So him and the Olympic diver, they opened a series of gyms in the Dallas area that all went belly up, totally plummeted. They belly flopped. They belly flopped onto perhaps. The mattress. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like they kind of belly flopped on to come. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like they kind of belly flopped on to call him. He's like, I can't really, I just don't tie back to the feet. Ah! They're marriage certainly belly flopped on to concrete because they divorce.

Yeah. He moved back home with his parents. It was kind of a low point of this period. He says, when I was broken unemployed, I was miserable. I felt sorry for myself and the world was against me and I couldn't catch a break. Well, the reason was I was a jackass. End quote. Growth? Growth? Sure. Yeah. We'll take it any form.

So he has a girlfriend. Her name is Linda and he had, they had met because she worked at one of his doomed Dallas area clubs. And they were dating and he was like Linda let's move to Houston. I'm going to open a furniture store. Good for him. Dallas is an abysmal place. It's horrible. It's just, okay, let's unpack this.

Talk about it. Cause I love to just, I love to just really shit all over his city on the podcast. But I feel like I don't get it for you often and now I can get it in Stereos. Let's hear it. What sucks about Dallas? Yeah.

There's nothing to do there. Yeah. It's like, just these like, stuff there's nothing to do there. Yeah, it's like just these like stuffy rich folk and it sucks. There's a hotel that business people go to and there's business people living there. That's my impression of it. And I just don't think anyone interesting likes to live there. Ooh. Shots fired. See, I agree wholeheartedly. And also, there is a very comical rivalry between Houston and Dallas. Of course.

Like it's always like- Like Vancouver Toronto. Yeah, but I think part of the tentative that is Houston Dallas rivalry is that I think there might be kind of similar in some ways. Don't you dare. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, You're supposed. It, why do you, why does that offend you? Why are Dallas and Houston not at all alike? How dare you even compare them? Um, because we're way cooler.

I mean, we are. Houston has just got so much more going on. Oh, there's no reason. Stop it. Okay, okay. Okay. So is this entirely a step aside yourself? Is this gut or is it true? Is it true that

Houston really is that much better or are you just right? Is it true gut? You love her from here and so are you? Wow. I know that part of it is like I was raised as a young Houston babe to hate Dallas, but also Dallas sucks. I've been there. I've been there and it's just the least entertaining place to like waste money to drive to and then spend money on shit that's just not cooler interesting. I just like Austin and we're not gonna complicate this further. Yeah, but I would rather go to Austin than Dallas and those are two places that I just like and think are worse than Houston. The rap on Dallas is broadly too distilled then. The people suck the amenities suck and the city is boring. Yeah. Okay, inexpensive.

And expensive. Yeah, it's like just wealthy snobs live there. Okay, cool, Josie, any final notes? No, no. Before we... Perfect. Natural smack. Natural smack felt probably probably saying why because he

wanted to move to Houston as well. Houston at the time in late 70s will say, booming oil town, had a lot of money coming in and he told Linda let's go. I want to move there and Linda was like well let's make this official we should get married and apparently Matt mattress Mac or Jim also known as Jimbo by high school friends by the way. I love Jimbo. Yeah. Just as a name.

Yeah. So at that point Jimbo says that he hadn't really thought about marriage at all but where could he find a better cheaper employee? You shut your mouth. You shut your mouth. You shut your mouth. And these undertones exist in present day after smell. Oh yeah, we have sort of see the becoming of a villain. The man has layers.

So yeah. So Josie will have observed two reactions from me in sequence. And I think you know me well enough to decode those reactions, but I'll explain them just for care. Okay. First was like shock at the misogyny of it all. Yes. And then the second one was, well he's got a point though, as like if you're coming at like from a capitalist perspective, which mattress mat. Certainly is. You're better than mattress mat. Yeah. It didn't work for the club, it didn't work for the gym, maybe it work for the gym maybe it'll work for the mattress store

But I've got to learn from my mistakes. I've got to find a way to not pay my employees. Yeah, you know, so They get married He's a lot cheaper. Yeah, they open a storefront in the Houston area north of downtown and They fill it with furniture. they fill it with furniture, they fill it with mattresses. Apparently, there's a few months in there where they stay, they sleep overnight in the warehouse, and in on the showroom, just because if anything got stolen,

then they'd be down the tubes, by and actually. They couldn't afford to replace their own inventory kind of thing. Yeah, they were running on a very, very tight budget and things were not looking up. And according to Mattress Mack lore, which he self-propeptuates in many a motivational speech that he has made to entrepreneurial ship classes at UH, that kind of thing. Apparently he takes his last chunk of change and he puts it into advertising. He's like, I'm gonna make a commercial.

What a fortuitous decision. And I'm gonna run it hard. I'm gonna make this work. And so he dawns an emptied-out mattress, which we saw, twin mattress, pokes little arm holes in it, and he creates the character mattress mac. and he creates the character, Mattress Mac. Mattress, which is, which is, I can't say enough about the gimmick. Yeah. Cause I like a gimmick. Yeah. Yeah.

If you can't tell. And I think this is a good one. This is like American, Hockster, better call Saul, lawyer, used car salesman with like a, I can tell the future and I see Yeah, right any at that kind of like a big picture like very knowingly gimmicky

Snake oily seeming but lots but like fun and charismatic American Local TV sales person to me is such an institution Yeah, I think that like it's one of those American things like the snack aisle that y'all have just local TV sales person to me is such an institution. Yeah. I think that like it's one of those American things like the snack aisle that y'all have just perfected. Yeah. It does feel like extremely American.

Hit with a car, call William Mahar, or whatever, guys, you know. 100, I just got hit. That's another, that's another Houston. That's a Houston establishment now. Yeah, yeah, that was. That's outrageous Houston establishment now. Yeah, yeah. That's outrageous. But like undeniably effective.

If you just got hit, you're all shook up. Right. Can you remember? I can remember 1-800. I just got hit. Yeah, exactly. You know 1-800. Not your insurance.

Not your insurance. Not your insurance. Not your insurance. Yeah. Don't call your parents. No, 1-800. I just got hit. Yeah. They're there for you. Jesus. What a country. For some reason we really do love these gimmicky advertising things.

They're fun. They're fun. Apparently part of the lore with mattress Mac as well is that at the end of that first commercial he pulls from his back pocket or from like I don't know the interior of the mattress. A flap that they cut in the mattress. He's saying he's the bad guy. He'd rather just through his springs and pulls out. Yes. Some dollar bills, some money. The last line is gallery furniture will save you money! And he like jumps and like the money.

And apparently that wad of ones is like the last money that he had. The last, like fluid cash. What a scooge's number one dime, his lucky dime. What a part of the law. Yeah, yeah. I would also add, mattress, mac himself, I don't actually find that charismatic and on screen presence.

Well, that's the thing about him is he kind of like, he's really does slur his words a little bit. Like, come on down to uh chitwelen parker uh yeah save you love my own mattress back come on now the mattress matter save you money maybe that's why the save you money kind of really stuck because you're like that's why I don't understand yeah you can't understand anything it's one 800 I just got hit, save you, you ran the mattress max, save you, you might have a ton. Yeah, I don't need to know. Yeah. So it's 1983 when the ad runs,

and it's like automatically people are in love with it or intrigued by it or annoyed by it. They're, you know, they're just like, it's just viral. In your brain, yeah, and it's done. And business starts to pick up, things start to turn around, gallery furniture becomes the institution that it is today. An actress Mac is a millionaire, a few times over, he's a very wealthy man.

And he's also, you know, as we discussed, a philanthropist of the Houston area, he was very instrumental in helping Houston get back on its feet after Hurricane Harvey. He's a huge Astros fan and is always supporting them. He's a big advertiser all over the minute made park. One day it will probably be gallery furniture park, blah blah blah. Before it was in Ron Park. Yeah, in Ron Park. I like the minute made park as a venue. I thought it was cool.

Yeah, I went to minute me. I like minute made Park as a venue. I thought it was cool. Yeah, it is in the 80s that around this time mattress mac have a little trouble with with the cocaine. I was wondering if maybe that was gonna be the end of that sentence Yeah, I'm waiting for a Yeah, the 80s got the better of us all you know, you can't understand him too well. Those words are really just going off Iot all together. A little boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. We didn't wave a money around. Everything is clicking for me. Right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He loves to gamble. So there was a lot of gambling happening. A lot of cocaine. He ran into some light legal issues with the cocaine usage. The gambling has always been like just cross the border to Louisiana and do a little gambling there. Yeah, but the cocaine kind of a little flack with the police and so he had to do a lot of community service in the area So he used to know it as a philanthropist, but there was a little bit of

So he used to know it as a philanthropist, but there was a little bit of Someone's making him do that. Yeah A little volatile situation happening. So there's quite a few Houstonian accounts of people being like, yeah, he came to my middle school and like gave a big talk about like Get off drugs. Don't do drugs. Stay in school and Apparently that was all his community service that he had to do. Right, right, right, interesting. Yeah, that man was not saying no to drugs. No, no, and so her king Harvey, yeah, that's when I kind of tapped into him and he was like, I mean Joel Osteen who runs a huge mega church in town, famously, notoriously locked his doors during Hurricane Harvey. Everybody else was like opening up their big

shared spaces, the convention center downtown, became like a place where people could gather and donate things, and mattress mac like I mentioned open his doors and people camped out and he became really really well liked for that and for anybody who was there whose homes were flooded out he's like we're gonna give you a home full of furniture we're not gonna give you a home but we're gonna furnish your home we're gonna furnish your home yeah in and after it's a good day yeah yeah and funny thing you should say that, because mattress smack for a short time there, did get into politics.

In the beginning, which was like in the 90s or so, he did try and enter to be like a city commissioner for his particular area, but it didn't really work out. He found out that he actually lived outside of the jurisdiction that he was trying to. Oh no. Yeah, but he had trying to. Oh no. Yeah. But he has.

Jerry mandering. Yeah. Keep a mattress back out of our city government. How could they do this? But he did give a whole bunch of money to various politicians are outgoing mayor, so the social trainer, he donated to his campaign, but he's also donated and his very good friends with Ted Cruz. Apparently their buds, they text a lot. Anytime one of them goes viral in a meme, no. They're like, check it out, booty. Okay, no, I don't trust anybody who trusts Ted Cruz. Yeah.

What you want to text Ted Cruz, that's the thing. There are people, listen. Ted Cruz is going to serve Ted Cruz. That's the thing. There are people, listen. Ted Cruz is gonna serve you money. No, Ted Cruz is not gonna save any. Ted Cruz sucks. Like, just into personally, he seems like a pain in the ass. He seems annoying. And this isn't him in a part of him.

No. This isn't, he just seems like a fucking drip. Yeah. I can't imagine anybody, Republican or or Democrat wanting to fucking know this guy It Is and so forth So I'm not lost for words are his donations exclusively to Republicans or are they across the board because to keep in good standing with everybody as a, you know,

a recent pause? Yeah, that's the interesting thing is our current, or I should say outgoing mayor, semester, turner is a Democrat. Okay, so that makes sense to me though. Yeah. Especially business people I feel like. Right. It's not that uncommon to donate to like both Hillary and Trump kind of thing because no matter

who gets in, you kind of want to have some sort of open door there. But he did have major beef with Lena Hidalgo who's the Harris County judge, which is kind of a particular Texas governmental position, but she pretty much, it's like her and the mayor that run the city. So, or I should say like the Harris County judge and the mayor of Harris County, which is, which contains Houston, they run the city. So I should say like the Harris County judge and the mayor of Harris County, which is which contains Houston, they run the city, the fourth largest city in the US. Wow, that big. For huge, dude. Huge. Yeah. I had no idea. Fuck Dallas. Exactly. Exactly. When Lena Hadalgo was running an election. Mattress Mac took out this huge ad and the Houston Chronicle denouncing her,

calling out on all this shit. Yeah, they have bad beats. It's like, and then when she won that election, she, in her speech, referred to him as a mattress salesman, which apparently angered him, but it's which he fucking Mattress Mac you're being softer than one of your very own pelotos. Yeah, you are a mattress salesman You are many things, but you are a mattress salesman to look at it You seem like you are selling mattresses quite

proactively. Yeah, right. But he has, you know, stepped into this political role in terms of donations. And because he is such a Houston icon, if he puts his name behind somebody and gets them in an advertisement with him. The mattress, Macbump. Yeah, the mattress, Macbump. Yeah. And we're not talking about a little cocaine bump.

It's the other bump. No, no, no, no. It's the other mattress. The other bump. Yeah, and we're not talking about a little cocaine bump. It's the other bump. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no again see how he was doing. This is a lie couch blouch. I needed to say it out loud. I mentioned some of his gambling. One of his gambling poise was he was taking bets on the 2020 election. That's an interesting way to get people engaged in politics. Right? He said let's gamble about this.

Apparently he withheld the money from anybody who put a bet on Joe Biden winning the election Yeah, because He felt that the election was invalid and he was gonna wait until it was Certified that's the word certified. Certified. Yeah. Yeah.

I was wondering if maybe again, it's a text in love story, isn't it? It truly is. Truly is. I'll finish up this complicated character by just quoting a few of the signs that are all over the gallery furniture showroom. Because they're kind of, you know, and like, lovely script on finished wood or something like that, you know, like they're all over, there's a big like marquee thing, a movie theater marquee. One of these quotes, a motivational axiom,

restaurants, more tools than overused does. What you are is God's gift to you. What you make of yourself is your gift to God. Okay. Work is life's greatest therapy. Oh, that looked on your face. No, I didn't like that. You did. Oh, it's crazy after that one. We are not liking on that one. We are not liking on that one. We need freedom to shape our future. We need profit to remain free. No true word spoken, and by a businessman. Fade out on the national anthem,

and what more do you need? Yeah, stand up from your American slide couch and salute. I love America. We should not be sitting for this. I will not sit for this. I will lie down. I will lie down on my comfortable mattress, Mac mattress.

Yes. That I can buy an installments. Yeah, America loves you. 0% money down. Yeah. Saves you money. Yeah. Now streaming on Paramount Plus. Hey baby, I hear the blues It's calling Toss Out Lives at Scramble Eggs.

Y'all know how this goes. And maybe I seem a bit confused. Yeah, maybe. But I got you picked. But I don't know what to do with those Toss Out Lives at Scramble Eggs. Kelsey Grammer returns in Frazier. Life's calling again.

New series now streaming on Paramount Plus. Hi, I'm Lauren, and I'm Chandler, and we're the host of Pop Apologist Podcast, a weekly podcast devoted to celebrity gossip, Hollywood deep dives, Real Housewives drama, and anything and everything Taylor Swift. We're two sisters who make no apologies for our love of pop culture and the fact that A-listers might be more to us than each other.

Join us on your favorite podcast app every Wednesday for pop apologists. Pop Apologist, your new of the Better Sweet Anthony podcast. Are you itching for more Better Sweetness? Visit our coffee page and become a monthly subscriber to get full access to bittersweet exclusives, including the bittersweet film club. In this month's bittersweet film club, you'll find out of Disney's dinosaur is really as shitty as Taylor and Josie thought. All the dinosaurs looked like fat dogs to me.

They looked like you know those good names. Like fat dogs? I'm not, sorry. Yeah. Visit k-o-fi.com slash bittersweetinthamy. Can I clarify a deep card? Yeah. In the episode 16, a Mitchell ass y'all at the start, what were you doing in 1982?

Yeah. And you both acted like you were adults. Why? Oh, we haven't done that bit in forever. That was a really bit, where we would be like, just like, this started in 1927. Tina, there were you doing in 1927. Oh, I forgot about that bit.

Yeah. I forgot what Bivu should bring that bit back. We should bring it back. Yeah, so funny. It's a pretty good one. It's so funny. So, Amanda, you have a, you have a story for us. Oh, baby.

Do I have a story for you? I'm stoked. I'm so ready. I've been loving all these American themes thus far. Yeah, yeah. Hey, man. Bring it in. Turn it on. Let's go. America. Supersoaker. Okay, supersoaker. Interesting one to throw in there. I think. Yeah, because now my head isn't totally different. Sorry. That's okay. Canadian sorry. Good, good, good. It's spreading. So we like to hear that so we like to hear it.

Our story starts in 2001. What were you doing in 2001? It's back! The bit is back! We're bringing the bit back. We're bringing the bit back. Okay, I was in middle school. You know what I was doing?

I was being driven to school by my mom in a green minivan and I had a single velcro curler to shape my bangs. I would wear it in the car and then we'd like get to the drop-off and I'd pull it out and it would just be like, thro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro-ro Yeah, I mean, I can keep a role of voters in there. It's gonna be great. And that's why I was so well liked to popular in middle school. I guess so. It totally sounds like you would have been. It's middle school, the fuck. Let's not put pressure on ourselves to be hot and fuckable in middle school. You're a really good face. Well, the thing is that in the moment we thought we were hot.

That's the problem. That's the problem. Or we really enjoyed it. You're like, why won't my mom let me wear a thong? I don't understand. Yeah, I'm a legend. Sexual being. Yeah.

What was I doing in 2000? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess like finding out about 9-11 probably. I cannot believe that you said that. My next question was going to be guys. What were you doing on 9-11? Do you remember? I've got it on deck.

Yeah, here we go. Here we go. I have a pretty routine 9-11 story We'll go up West Coast so the plane already at the first tower my mom was watching it got sent to school Concerned to belts etc What I would rather tell is my friend Tracy's 9-11 story which is that

she watched Moisha in the morning every morning. And so when she got up, she put on UPN, and I guess UPN was the only fucking network in the world that didn't cut away to news footage of the September 11th attack. Because Moisha was on. Yeah, it's Moisha. Well, the important things were happening on TV, right? Brandi Norwood was about, and so she just watched Moisha and she went to school and everyone was all like rattled and shit. She was like, why is everyone so fucked up?

Like, Millisha wasn't that bad today. Didn't know, had no idea. Wow. The Millisha blinders. The Millisha blinders were strong back in the day. Josie, do you have a particularly notable 9-11 story? Your story is pretty identical to mine because of West Coast. I heard it on Jeff and Jair, which was the morning radio show that was my alarm.

It's like, beep, beep, beep, beep, and then it was like fart jokes and stuff. Right. But they were like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. And I came downstairs and my mom was watching it on the TV, went to school, concerned parents. I remember my English teacher being like, I just can't stop thinking about the fact that they wanted to like kill all Americans. I was like, uh, hmm, yeah, I guess. Like looking back on it, it's like, whoa, they got too fast, too. That's lovely.

I watched you snap in real time. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, and it's just like, uh, okay, you don't really think, like Americans just don't really think of, didn't really think of the world that way in terms of like being a country in it that's not always loved and liked and cherished to center, not it. Yeah, center of the world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You all are the main characters. What were you doing?

I was born in 95. You little baby. So in 2001, 9-11, I was only five. Okay. Because I turned, I would have turned six in December. Yeah. I don't remember 9-11. Uh-huh. I think I remember the one year anniversary. Talking about it in class. Got it, got it. And I was like, wow, I don't like sense. No understanding of this.

My parents were really protective and they were like, we're not gonna explain it. You don't need to know. Yeah. That's okay. You don't have the political, the polycy chops yet for this. Yeah, they're like one name, maybe. So have you ever then watched footage? Like there is a YouTube compilation that I, I don't know why it was like there in a very historically minded way. I wasn't being a sick fuck or anything, but I was in a like, I don't think I've watched the 9-11 footage really in any sort of comprehensive way since it played out live all those years ago.

So within the past few months actually, I watched a compilation of it. Have you ever seen anything like that? Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that's kind of something that is a part of American schooling now. I worked in a high school for a bit. One of the English teachers there. She was playing this video for the kids, not on 9-11, but just before it or just after it. In this very upstanding, never forget, we love America. It was like, legal. Right, being played over the footage of the towers

in this way that's supposed to invoke this like really emotional response. And that's something that like kids see in school, like pretty regularly around the anniversary. And I think that's what it is. I worked a summer camp with middle schoolers one time and I remember the organization. I don't know, someone knew somebody and they were touring one of the Fire trucks that had been in 9-11 and it had turned into kind of like a mobile museum and it had like a brick Or like a piece of debris or like a yeah, like the newspaper from that day the New York Times from that day That was like on the street or something. Yeah, and it would have like relics. Yeah, that they've collected Yeah, and it was it was interesting because it was like,

these kids need to learn history. But it's like, we're not teaching them like all, like to be critical about this at all. We're just teaching them like here's a bit. No nuance. Yeah. I think bringing it back, the only thing I can do now is read something that was written in response by a person who

witnessed the towers going down. And in this moment, we can't close the lids on burning eyes. Our memories blanket us with friends we know like fallout vapors. Steel corpses stretch out towards an ending sun. Scorched in black, it reaches in and tears your flesh apart as ice cold hands rip into your heart. Damn. And that was written by one man who we came to know and love as Gerard Wai.

Wow. Do we know Gerard Wai? I know, I know, yeah, we'll meet again with both our cars collied. Uh, I know Jarod Ways. Wow. So wait, um, I'm not as familiar with Jarod Ways. I know. You were in emo in high school? I guess I wasn't emo enough. The- the- the- my-

It really was a thing, my mom. Quarter-roll things. We're not emo enough, no. Have you seen pictures of Taylor as a young-in? I don't think I have. Oh god. Oh, it's like a lot of like totally same. I had the whole side-swoop bang. You could not see my thing. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. Taylor, you had like fingerless gloves. I feel like, was that a thing? I had mesh fingerless gloves over. Yeah. Okay. I love it. The thing that you were saying about your quarter roll in your bangs really made me think of straightening the fuck out of my hair.

You know what I mean? Just really punishing it. Ooh, yeah, I really could right now. God forbid it had a hint of my fucking natural text. Yeah, I was married to my straightener in those days. That's how it was. There you go, that's me in high school. I can't wait, it's buffering. Oh, babe!

The knees! Look at the ears. The knees! And the ears! The knees! And the ears! The ears! The ears!

You are giving scene-king! Uh-huh. I would totally be friends with you on my space. You can tell that I'm not good at it because I'm wearing white socks with vans, which is a no-no, and these jeans were not originally skinny because we didn't have anywhere that sold skinny jeans in Syria, so my mom's skinny, but... Oh, Annabaria is so sweet! Thank you, Mom. What is that behind you? Is that a weapon? I'm on some sort of well. I think this is like a historical home. Oh, okay Incerious. Okay, decided that

Photoshoot, maybe photoshoot We had our little digital cameras. Yes. It was always time for a photo shoot Yeah, and this is like a frame around the picture. I did something and after effects Your really vivid was at the time because I was feeling so I had for my DV entire yeah A nice edit. This is is really cute I'm obsessed I gonna make that the background of my new phone you totally should have just do it do it to answer your question yes I do know a little bit about Jardway. Yeah for those of us who aren't fully clued in, Gerardway is from Newark, New Jersey. At the time in 2001, he was out of art school, had decided that he wanted to do drawing.

He was an intern at Cartoon Network. Wow, see I didn't know any of this about Gerardway. That's a rad internship. I have a quote actually from Gerard talking about that day and that experience. Yeah, I didn't know that he was a witness, a first-hand witness to 9-11. He was, and there's even this picture of him online that alleges that, you know, he's the man in the far left, and we can find that picture and pop it on the website or something, right folks? Oh yeah, yeah, and share it.

But, right. But this is, is this substantiated? We should be clear about that too. Could, is this actually Gerardway? To my understanding, yes, I'd like to believe so. I know, in the same way that you're doing your part that I've seen as better than Dallas. When I see, I also know in my heart that this is Gerard Ways. When I saw the back of that man, and I jacked it with that black hair, I said, it's Gerard.

There's no question. I said, when I was, I got bored. Exactly. Exactly. So, he was leaving work, and he was on a ferry and he didn't see the plane's hit. In fact, starting at this quote, he goes, I didn't see the plane's hit. I did see the buildings go down from, I'd say, fairly close. It was like being in a science fiction film or some kind of disaster film. It was exactly that kind of feeling. You didn't believe it. You felt like you were

in Independence Day. It made no sense. Your brain couldn't process it. And for me, it was a little different. I'm very empathetic, and I'm kind of a conduit emotionally. So I pick up a lot of stuff in that way. There was about three or 400 people around me and I was right at the edge. All these people behind me, they all had friends and family in those buildings.

I didn't. So when that first building went, it was like an A-bomb went off. It was like just this emotion and it made you nauseous. So that's him talking about that experience, just sort of collectively being in such a traumatic painful collective thing. Yeah. Yeah, collective like whale of agony. That's the thing too, is like we often talk when we talk about 9-11 in a modern context when young people specifically talk about 9-11 in a modern context. Yeah. A lot of it has gotten lost under the never forget of it all and the sociopolitical implications that followed and dark comedy and irony and this the way that often when we were

inquiring about September 11th we're asking like well what did you like what was it like for you as opposed to being like okay what was it like for somebody who was there or knew somebody who was in there right and so it doesn't I guess surprised me that the first-hand account of a plane slamming into a building would be that raw yeah yeah and so that opening quote that I read to you all became the song Skylines and Turnstiles, which he wrote the very next day after witnessing the fall of the towers. It went into their first demo Real as it were this is the creation of the band my chemical romance as we know it damn 9-11 started it all Wow truly yeah, who do you so I guess you the world changed so much after 9-11

That's true. Yeah, nothing was the same nothing was a saying was never forget forget. Never forget and always remember. Always remember my chemical romance. Alamo or go home. Yeah. Oh wow. And you know with that I think we've got some other things on our play. We're talking about 9-11. Okay. We're talking about its effects on the world long term. Sure. What if I told you that in 9-11 spurring my chemical romance, something else amazing was spurred then from them. I would have no choice but to believe you. Chain reaction, baby. Yeah. Well, let's talk about a little something while. Maybe a massive bestseller book and film franchise. Do we think we're now we're going? I don't know. I have no idea. Queer I for the straight. Like, I don't know.

No, I think it was. Let me go. Let me go. I've got to say something. Taylor, you have to say something. It's getting embarrassing. Let me go, let me go, I've gotta say something, Taylor, you have to say something, it's getting embarrassing. Um. 2005. Why can I? 2005. Sean Wick, no. Matt Bourne, Bourne, Bourne Trilogy.

Not quite. Something just to sexy and exciting though. It was Twilight. Your face right now. I'm loving this. I'm wondering how we got there. Well Stephanie Meyer can help fill the gaps. She frequently can't. I know. First of all I want to say we don't shit on Stephanie Meyer around here because that woman has found the best gift on the planet which

is to continuously rewrite Twilight. Oh absolutely absolutely. Swapping the genders, swapping the perspective, swapping this time as a pro, all this time it's in Espanol. Like this time, you know, they're Jewish this time. Like just change up the formula. Every angle. I know that the very iconic origin story of the characters of Bella and Edward

is that they came to her in a dream. Like she dreamed. Right. I think of her, I think of maybe of herself with like a sparkly vamp man. Right. And was like, this is it. Sure, it was that self-insert. We're cooking.

Then she looked down at the apple in her hands and she was like, Ugh. Exactly. Montage riding, riding, Montage riding. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eat naples, riding Montage riding. Eat apples with two hands. Yeah, I like that.

You're all along. No, guys. It looks like we were eating those apples. Eating those apples right out. And we were. Yeah, Stephanie Meyer has cited my chemical ver as being one of the influential bands that she listened to when writing Twilight. And she took inspiration for Jacob Black's character from the song Famous Last Words Itself. She says, Wow. This really wrong uncontrolled emotion where it's not about some person who's grown up and calisthened over and learn how to control things. It's someone who's feeling it for the first time

and just wants to go out and blow things up. The song, famous last words, is a really romantic version of Jacob saying, okay, I'm putting myself out there and you're probably going to break me, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm still going to make the offer." End quote. I like it, coaching it in terms of an offer that you make is very like, I feel like it's like a good meeting chair tactic, you know? Why don't I offer that we table that discussion for after the meal, you know? That's what I was, I think initially quite contemptuous of it at the time as was the style as being like a brain deadlet.

I think now that I'm older I'm just like, you know what? I like that people when people read, you know, whatever. It's not my business what you want to really, who fucking cares Taylor get over it. I think it was just, I did, I do think at the time that I kind of like, I was starting to come into the awareness that like, hey wait, is this just because she's a woman? Like there was, there was that sort of thing to you. I know that there was like a lot of like, problematic gender dynamics and toilet and the work on them. Yeah, exactly.

I did watch all five of the Twilight movies and theaters. Totally. Same. And I knew as soon as I watched the first one, I was like, I didn't think much of it I was like that's a bit boring and then I watched the second one and I was like okay this is a bit camp actually I can watch more of these I don't think they ever reached the heights of new moon that's my opinion in terms of like so bad it's

good new moon is the best in that direction okay I did leave the third one and I was like I can't believe I'm gonna watch three more of these you know. What's the one spoiler alert apologies? Which is the one that ends with like let's get married. Is that this is the first one? Is that the second one? Three. It's the end of the third one. I saw that one in theaters with all of my roommates and I was high or drunk or both enough to when that occurs and like the credit start rolling in a crowded theater I stood up and I was like oh god damn it. They got her. You're gonna have to pay 15 bucks to see it again. I was so just outraged. The scene is that they're running through the woods and he goes,

will you marry me and she goes, what? And then it's time to have us. Oh Bella, she's like damn corny. And they're just like running through the, it's so stupid. And so, do you know what I like about Twilight too? Is I like calling people spider monkey, like hold on. Yes. Very good. I like that. Very good.

You know what caused that? You know what caused spider monkey is a thing? Jardway. 9-11. 9-11 exactly. Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, yeah. Do you like the, have you read all of the toilet tears? Yeah, so I was actually the weirdest child in the world.

Okay. When these books came out, I had to have been 2005. I was 9 turning 10. Just the right age to like start maybe dipping your toe into bad boys. Exactly. Oh, exactly. And I was in fourth grade and I was a book nerd

and I was like, what is this vampires? Cause you know, I was also a little emo. Yeah, I was dipping the toes Halloween, spooky season all the time. Very iconic marketing covers. Absolutely. They sell marketing covers. Absolutely. They sell it well. And I was like, Twilight, what is this vampire stuff?

And I was hooked. I was hooked. Yeah. The books came out sequentially from 2005 to 2008, one each year. Wow. She pumped those babies out. Yeah. And I bought those babies up.

Write them down. Right them down. Watch the movies. Thought I was the coolest person in the world because I like Reddit right when it came out. Yeah. I was like, you guys didn't know. Yeah, I didn't know it was like. I liked it before it was cool.

Exactly. Such a hipster. I like that you were reading. See, that's the thing is like I think at the time I would have been like, oh, there, she's in fourth grade. What are you teaching her now? I'm like, I love how stoked you were to be like reading something right when it drops.

That's fun. Yeah. Yeah. It was just this, yeah, exactly this whole something like I love the experience. Yeah. But I was also like, this is a saucy little romance. Yeah. Sparkle, Sparkle, collarbone.

Yeah. Which maybe? It's not pornographic so if that is threatening to you, it's a pretty conservative sexuality. Exactly. Yeah. Wasn't Stephanie Meyer extremely Mormon? I don't know. I don't know where to put her on the spectrum. I don't know. I'm so sorry. Incidentally occasionally or incidentally Mormon. I don't know. Okay. But she is Mormon, yes. And so I salute her. But yeah, I thought this was this really like interesting dynamic.

I was like, this vampire loves this girl because she's so plain and awkward. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Isn't it the best that he stalks her while she sleeps? And so romantic. All of those notions are kind of working in my head, which we'll touch on. We'll touch on some of that toxicity.

I do want to just loop my chemical romance back into this conversation and say, your favorite new moon, they were asked to do a song for that movie, and they vehemently declined. They said, no, thank you. We don't care for this. We don't want to do something because people want us to do it. They're like, we are just two cookers for. How dare you. How dare you are not too cool for Twilight. I've got terrible news through you. Yeah, exactly. I absolutely deadly news. Post Post-cancere concept album, know this is exactly where you're batting at.

Exactly. I will say actually in retracing this, I remember that Stephanie Meyer would put playlists. Exactly this. Her website. Exactly. And some MCR gems were in there. They were all like, I don't know that they were all... I feel like she maybe had something like co-heating Cambrian there.

She had some... I don't know if they were all as like flout. See, emo is Gerard way. I feel like there was probably some creed in there too. There was some edge. Yeah. It was, edge-y is kind of music. But they were all about this general mood. They were all very like angsty. They were all very, very angsty and whatever genre kind of pretty. But they were all about this general mood. They were all very like angsty. They were all very, very angsty and whatever genre

they were in, they were like angst tracks and like romance tracks and like I'm alone, the world despises me tracks. Exactly. Which is so funny when you know who Stephanie Meyer is and like the life she kind of was already living at this point. Interesting lady, interesting woman for sure.

Right, right. So they said, no thanks, not for us. They even go on to write this song called Vampire Money, which is kind of a shooting back. Oh, why is that? That's, is this virtue signaling? Like, what is this? Yeah.

It's like being like, it was trendy to say that twilight sucked at the time. Isn't like a big part of email looking back on it a little bit of virtue signaling? Like I'm more emotional, I'm more in touch with my emotions. You're just a fucking prep, you're a prep reprep. And that's why you're saying that. You're a fucking dirty prep and you don't know what it means to have emotions and make art.

You know what Alice says? Silk Sox Cissy, that's the word for that. Well, home of home of accounts. I think she was referring to her like all girl school days. We've got some um, some clapbacks as the kids say happening. Exactly. They've got a clapback, they've got a diss track and it's just taking a bite out of oh They're commercializing vampires and they're they're making a product out of my lifestyle and my Gerard not verbatim these ideas are there. Well, no, but he thinks he's he thinks he's an en rice vampire

I think he's a fan sees himself like a sexy rock star vampire Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and this lady is cheapening the brand with her sparkles. Yeah That we're directly inspired by your theater kid ass Silk Sox's his song so yeah Reclame, yeah, I'm reclaiming Yeah, say it loud and proud. Sure. Reclaim. Yeah, I'm reclaiming so toxic. Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's interesting too, this notion of how she created these playlists and these things that kind of like inspired her work. But let's talk about something one level deeper. Sure. Where? Get your shovels out, baby. Not if balls in the air, not if balls in the air, I want more. Let's keep juggling.

Juggling these ideas and notions, toppling the dominoes. Ooh, ooh, more metaphors, give it to me. Sure. Have you guys ever written a red fanfiction? Yes, but I, yeah, extensively. Yes, red or written, Taylor? Written and read. Yes. Ooh, I like how you have your written Taylor? Written and read. Yes.

Oh, and like how you have your thumb on your bottom lip with that. Hahaha. Can you tell us for what? I will tell you to privately. A person of layers. You didn't know any of this. No, I've known you for how long Taylor? Wow.

A lot of my early writing experience in understanding like what worked and what didn't What emotional beats work and in a story and what don't what is to angsy what is to fanficuit is to juride way right right Work came via doing fan fiction nowadays. I plan a lot more Back then though, and and I think still fan fiction is often written back then though and and and I think still fan fiction is often written serially the comments from the reader can influence the next installment or whatever and so you're kind of getting live-work shopped in a way yeah and so it was a really really interesting experience yeah I wrote a lot of fan

fiction a lot I love that do you still write it no by the end when I was writing characters I was basically tweaking them so much that they were my own characters. And at that point, just write your own shit, right? Yeah, fair, yeah. Josie, did you ever write fanfiction? I don't think you've ever told me about any. Well, neither have you, you haven't told me. I haven't been holding out on you,

it's just never come up. Yeah. Yeah. I have not written fanfiction. I've read fanfiction and I've actually the most recent fanfiction I've read has been like when I was teaching creative writing and students would submit it for for workshops submitted in class. How's that though if you're like not because I feel like so much of fanfiction is written to an audience of people who share in the same fandom as you do and know those inside jokes. Yeah. And depending on how

long they've been reading fanfiction, you can even have fanfiction that calls back to like previous fanfictions. Yeah. Right. Note and readers will readers might kind of pick that up. Right. So. How do you deal with not knowing all of the references maybe? Yeah. The discussion that we had about it was very much based on audience. Because it is like, who is your audience? Is it everybody?

No. Is it, is it smaller? It's my little point. Do you want it to be my little point? And at a certain point, it's like, that's cool. Know your audience. Right. Right to them.

I remember, because there's a story that Carmen Maria Machado wrote that's SVU inspired. It's like a long novella length thing and it's the ideas that she like takes the characters and it's essentially fanfiction but she morphs it enough that it becomes like this weird, horrific, slash dreamy, surreal story but it's using the names and the characters and the basics relationships that they have and I think it's kind of fascinating because we do it all the time. Nothing is original. We're stealing storylines all the time. Yeah. There's only so many sort of tropes and dynamics that we can pull from. Yeah and you can tweak them and make them your own, but that's what fanfiction is in a way. So yeah besides just making the characters like bone. That's yeah. That's also fun. Yeah. Which is also you can I know what fucking supernatural

one and supernatural two look like. Yeah. Were you ever sorry were you ever were you ever a fanfic? Oh you ever did ask you. Creator consumer? Oh yes. I was both a writer and reader fanfic. I read a lot of Harry Potter fan fiction. I read a lot of band fan fiction actually. Who are your bands? Who are your bands? A lot of the fueled by ramen folks. So like, Harry more and like just any of those. And like, panic at the disco. And like, making the boys hit. Yeah, it's all the pretty boys of eyeliner's on. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, I got you, I got you. And Haley Williams is the supportive friend. I'm so glad you brought her up. This is a deep cut. I wrote a fiction where I was self-insert dating Hayley Williams. We were girlfriends. Yeah. And we like didn't know what to do about being gay. Stop it. What was she like in the fanfic was it like a good relationship where you fighting a lot? No, we never fought. I'm too sensitive to fight with my girlfriend. I'm not gonna be days off with your skies. It was like we were dealing.

Me and Heli. We were sort of dealing with how do we like come out to people because we were like best friends who became lovers. I was not a computer kid. I was not. No, I know. That's why it would have surprised me if you were a fan-fit kid. You don't strict me as a computer. Yeah, yeah. The K on my brother's old laptop that I inherited was missing so you can do a lot of stuff

It was hard yeah You had a different person Just for no okay, yeah, okay not okay not okay. There was also a my chemical room in song. Oh I'm, okay. Yeah, okay. Not okay. Not okay. There was also a my chemical room in song. I'm not okay. Yeah, I'm not okay. Pull circle and that's okay. There's no Okay, that was Jesse attic. Yeah, let's go. Yeah, you worry That's really good I will say that I think I have had a premonition of where we're going now. Oh My god

Okay, I understand what might be coming next. Do you see deals in our future deal deals deals? I see I do I you see deals in our future? Deal, deal, deals. I see, I do see deals in our future. I think someone's about to make a very good deal actually in the future. Oh, okay. Okay. Well, let me give you some nibblings of fanfic lines. Oh, okay. Bring us where we're supposed to be.

Oh, sure. Bella Swan is drafted into interview, the reclusive andigmatic Edward Cullen, multi-millionaire CEO of his company. It's an encounter that will change her life irrevocably leading her to dark realms of desire. Oh shit. I love a guessing game guys. I know those opening lines from anywhere.

I know those opening lines from here although the names were a little bit different when I heard them What what were the names you know? I know oh my god What are their fucking names Anastasia steel. Oh my god his name. It's in the title Christian Welcome baby Christian Grey. Oh, here we go. Welcome, baby. 9-11 to 50 shades of gray. Here we are. And there you go. Okay, so that we're spiraling down the timeline.

Yeah, this is very wearing time as Carmen San Diego, but like dark-sided. Yeah. This is where I thought we were going because when we were talking about who is the audience for a piece of fan fiction, I was like, well, you know, whoever's in the fandom, and then I thought, well, that's increasingly and true, especially as we get into

like the Watt Pad era of fan fiction. People know that there's money in fan fiction because it gets engagement. People do respond emotionally to these kind of like simple stories of like, it's you, your hot, Haley Williams is your girlfriend and everything is fine. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I, okay. It's also something I think that like,

we already have an agreed framework of like, who these characters are. Yeah. And so when I take them and play with them and make them what I want, because it's more interesting to get exactly from them to bone in this specific way. Yeah. Because that's what I want because it's more interesting to be exactly. I want them to bone in this specific way. Yeah.

Because that's what I want. I want them to bone parentheses, corporate bosskink. Yeah. Parentheses, bad BDSM question mark. Close parentheses? Correct. Close those parentheses. Right now.

But we know who these people are going to be. This was another one too that I think really got kind of the exact same treatment as Twilight in terms of its critical reception. Yes. It was really derided in a way where like, you could tell that the criticisms weren't untrue and you could tell that like the actual literature itself wasn't of

Necessy again it wasn't like it wasn't fucking Fahrenheit. Oh god I don't know the number 451. Yeah yeah thank you but it was also I think a notion of like I would always wonder how much of it availed the fact that this was a book by women for women. Sure yeah yeah definitely some misogyny at play, definitely. And if it made the criticism more pointed or more lopsided or more like this is someone that it's okay for us, like culturally agree is the worst. Right, right. Why do people love to hate these things? Yeah. Yeah, but I was like, I know I didn't like Stephanie Meyer, I know I probably bashed her too. So like, I'm not, I'm not doing any sort of like moral high ground anything here,

just like an observation based on similar trends. Yeah, totally. 50 Shades of Grey started as Twilight Van Fick. It was originally titled Master of the Universe. It was posted to fanfiction.net. We know her. We love her. Right, Master of fanfiction.net. We know her. We love her. Right, master of the universe. Yeah. And get this. Her pen name, username was Snow Queen's one word. Ice Dragon.

Space Ice Dragon. That was in there. That was just in his brain. The Lord. Oh, Snow Queen's Ice Dragon is iconic bitch. No, please ice.ced Dragon. There's a few rarefied people who extend the stratosphere. Cassandra Claire, she was Harry Potter fanfare. Correct, okay. But like Snow Queen's Iced Dragon, she took it to another level. Cause that shit was literally just twilight fanfic with the serial numbers filed off.

Yes. But again, because the notion of fanfiction allows you to like take these dolls and play with them in whatever way you want You can do a again In a boneway alternate universe. Yes. Yeah You can have a bone in space. Yeah, you can have a bone on a death game You can have a bone on a beach. You can have a historical bone. You can have a college coffee shop bone Yeah, yeah, yeah, but because of that it was pretty easy in the end

I think to file the serial numbers off of Masters of the universe the piece of Twilight fanfiction and make it into a kind of a juggernaut in its own right in 50 shades of grey What like what we I'm sure that I'm sure that Amanda will tell us what how did that come to be such a juggernaut? the book came out in 2011 and it became a bestseller hit immediately. Truly. Truly. In the UK, in the United States, it sold over 125 million copies worldwide by June of 2015. By October 2017, had sold more than 150 million copies worldwide. Many millions worldwide. We couldn't stop talking about it.

That's very true. It was very, it feels very much a predecessor to what happens now on book talk around like spicy bucks. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like, it's a whole industry of like naughty books for moms kind of thing. Exactly. And I'm sure that that has existed as long as publishing has existed in cycles. Right.

But the most recent big one that I can think of is 50 shades of gray. Well, before book talking all that. And those like erotic romances have been around forever. Like the Fabio cover kind of vibes. Totally. These are like five-dollar paperbacks at your grocery store. Yeah. Lady Chatterleys lover.

Yeah. Like it's been around. Yeah. Lady Chatterleys lover. Yeah. Like, it's bitter-wrapped. But this one, I don't know, it seemed to, yeah, it seemed to occupy almost a different space and it was almost a space where it was like, mom can read Arotica because she's reading Fifty Shades of Grey. You know, it was like, Wimma could have the cover in public and it would be- And it would be-

It would be a whole new reading in it. Yeah, it was just a popular book and it's got all the sexy sex, you know. Exactly. Yeah. It totally made reading, erotica, a thing. Yeah, yeah. I will say I tried to read 50 Shades of Grey and I stopped, I stopped pretty quick because I just didn't enjoy reading it.

And it was the same with Twilight as a matter of fact. But yeah, I know, I never read 50 Shades in its entirety. I watched the first movie. Oh, how was the movie? So I have not read the book boring nor watch the movie boring. Okay, that's fair It was the first movie that we watched in a new year. Oh remember that it was January first Okay, I was on the sunshine coast with some friends. Okay, we needed a movie to put on and we I I think I Probably specifically thought we funny if the first movie that we watched in the year was 50 Shades of Grey.

It was kind of boring and bad. It felt honestly, I had the same issues with it that I had with Twilight, Slow, not Great Acting, not Great Story. Yeah, that sucks out. Circling back one moment to the book. Of no. I do think it's extremely impressive to find that this series has been translated into 52 languages. Whoa. Is there an Esperanto translation?

Taylor's very desperate, I know. I'm not over here. I'd love to say that we must make it happen. Oh Taylor, this is your mission. Translate it! I think this might be your translation passion project. Yeah. So you know it's very impressive. So how did how did you know? How did it go from fanfiction.net to best like I assume that the publishing company reached out to her with the big offer? I do believe that this book was self-published initially. Was it- oh, get out of town! It was released as an e-book and a print on demand paperback,

okay, by the writer's coffee shop, a virtual publisher based in Australia. So they're referring to the initial self-publication being it being really stalker. Good for her. Good for her. Good for her. I respect that. I respect that. Who wrote 50 shades of gray? What's her name? EL James. That's correct. Snow Queen's I Strike into her friend. Okay. Thank you. If you nasty. Yes.

EL James, hey. Since for Edwards Lover, she remembers her roots. That's not true. You're just writing some fanfic over there aren't you? Sans for Edwards lover she remembers her roots You're just writing to fanfic over there aren't you I'm just writing some e-lg I love it the first one e-book print on demand with the writer's coffee shop the second one Was released September 2011 third one released January 2012 Wow January 2012. Wow, really pumping these out. Yeah. Because it's a fan fiction that she's just editing, she already has it presumably. That's right. Yeah. She's just changing things. She's just kind of chopping up this full, this full original version. She's not a

role. Right. Something that I think is interesting is that the news networks were Talking about the trilogy as an example of viral marketing and they attributed to Having helped the rise of female erotica because it was available as an ebook because You could read it on a candle because you could have could have it hidden. You could have the cover hidden. And that's what launched it. And what got it going. Oh, that makes total sense. The chest is just...

It's not eating on a Kindle. Or not. Right there. You got one hand free. Oh yeah. Yeah. So, on one hand it started off as being able to become popular because of the nature of privacy of an e-book. Yeah. But then when it really popped off and became this best seller and was topping charts, it's like yeah I'm reading my sexy book

in public. Yeah. We're going to book club. We're gonna go to book club. And we're gonna circle jerseys. That's it. Yeah. That's what was in the parentheses. Yeah. Yeah. Closed parentheses. That was the parentheses. That is really fascinating to think of how like that technology created that ability to be clandestined with what would be seen as like inappropriate and then because it became so popular the privacy could fall away. You didn't need it anymore for someone who doesn't know listening what BDSM is, how would she define it? BDSM is the acronym for bondage, discipline, dominance, submission, satanasticism. All of those things roll into it, BDSM. And it actually doubles up. Yeah, I like that. It's fun. I'm sure Seth has been like added and tweaked and different people have different versions of Shred. Shred, yeah.

This is sort of the excuse. I know how that acronym shit works. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're the LGBTQIA plus. Yeah. When back in the day, it just used to be them gaze. Yeah. And so it's kind of this all-encompassing term that refers to practices where there's

varying sexual dynamics between partners that can include safely enacted pain play or kinks that are tied to fetishes and a lot of this stuff when you think of it, you think of things that can be requiring a lot of trust of a person because they're so physically and I don't want to say risky because I don't want to portraying this like negatively. Yeah. Because when you're doing it right, there should not be any real risk. But it's something that simulates this risk. Yeah, because when you're doing it right, there should not be any real risk. But it's something that simulates this risk. Yeah, that then elevates a sexual experience for people. Yeah, that makes sense. And perhaps that idea, the simulation, like the book is the simulation itself, you know what I mean? So it's like, well, it's not portrayed factually or like in a in like a handbook like this is how you do it. Sure. But it's a simulation of it that hides a sexual desire. Right. But when something like this becomes the widespread.

Yeah. What we talk about when we talk about BDSM. Yeah, then that's that. Yeah. When your mom's like, why don't BDSM? I personally try to be like really responsible and even-handed and how I depict pretty much anything or anybody and I'm not saying that I always get it right. But like, to what degree is EL James on the hook for doing a not very good BDSM stick in her fanfic that happened to get really big?

Correct. Through her own hard work and shit, through her intentions, but I don't think that it's necessarily her moral responsibility to be Pope BDSM either, but I got like people who were in that community would get a little incense that like, okay now I've got to answer questions from like Antiso and so about, I hear that you put beads in your hoo-ha!

You're gonna know, you're gonna be. Right. There's this really interesting article that I found that was put out in the Guardian in 2015. From... Good year. Someone who interviewed folks who are actually engaged in like local fetish scenes. Or... BDSM spaces. And this is a quote from Emily Sarah who at the time was a

fetish model and performer who ran BDSM healing. I'm putting this in the past tense because the article is from 2015. Right, yeah. I can't know how truly these things are today. But she says, I was shocked by how awful the film was. Ridiculous really. The sex scenes were so vanilla. It didn't look particularly kinky to me. There was a lot of beautiful equipment, but not much going on in terms of actual BDSM. It was just about Christian tying in a stossia up. In a real BDSM relationship, there's a lot more connection, a lot more talking, a lot more ritual. Yeah, I remember that being like a common complaint of the treatment of BDSM in the book as well as the movie.

Yeah. That and the idea that like, Edward and then Christian Gray are bad men, that we shouldn't be idolizing or should we shouldn't be making romantic heroes like this? Exactly. Because it's a model's bad ways that men treat women. Totally. Well, that was part, because I haven't read the books, haven't read 50 Shades, but I think I've watched one of the movies.

I've only watched one, too. Rita Ora has like one line in it, it's wild. Wow. But it does have a feeling of like, yeah, all the sex that they have is like at his wish and his command. Correct. But it's not a verbal command, it's not very communicative, but then, but that's holy consensual.

Right, but that's why she likes it. And that's where it's kind of like, okay, so we're just gonna play into this bit of like, we're feminist, but we like the big man that beats us up a little or like, we're up sound to us or just talk to us at all, like, or Danes to like, take it from us. Yeah, yeah, and there's, I don't know, there's a weird kind of like push-and-pull with that that maybe makes it Why it's so intriguing to folks or to like housewives who think that I shouldn't say housewives because I think it's probably a much larger population But like housewives is not a slurry in this part. No, no, yeah, we love those. Yeah, we do. We do. We do. Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, just the way that like, I don't know, it disguises itself as like the BDSM thing when really correct. There's a lot more that goes into that communication. To what that actually looks like. Yeah. So what it looks like when it's practiced in like a healthy, responsible way that takes into account both partners and their desires. Yeah.

And that looks like, let's look at partners and their desires. Yeah. And that looks like, uh, from the top. Yeah. Some sunny day in 2001. Terribly tragic thing happened. Yeah. That we like to never forget. Never. Called 911.

Uh-huh. Which leads to one man determined to change the world through music. Uh-huh. Gerard Way. Yeah. To found the band we know is my chemical romance. Buh, buh, buh. Which in turn inspires the vampire queen, Stephanie Meyer,

to write this global sensation that we call Twilight. That is pretty email. It does have a lot of like, it is angsty. Yeah, it's teen angsty, even described as tween romance. Which I think is so accurate. Yeah, and we'll just take that tween romance. We up the ante, throw some spicy sex stuff in there, or vanilla stuff. Yeah, vanilla stuff.

It's all relative, depending on who you ask. Read or a man So that in that way this time was tradition unfurled before us that is such a such a A ride of the early 2000s though. I feel like I just got off the the roller coaster of the 2000s Now like 2001 is playing constantly. To tie it back to Robert Pattinson I feel like I just got off the elevator and then I looked outside and I was in the World Trade Center. Wow. Do you know this?

Do you know this one? No, what is this? Okay, I'm about to do a big movie spoiler. Oh my god, yes I have seen this movie. Okay, I haven't seen the movie but I but I know it's got a very infamous ending. Yes, it totally does. It was the movie. And this is, you know, even to tie it further. This is a Robert Pattinson movie that becomes about, yeah, massive spoiler alert. So that'll tie us kind of back together. Oh, yeah.

We've got, we've got, this is a little bit've got, this is a little bit of a sidebar, but there's a film it's called Remember Me. Okay. It's a romantic drama. Never forget. Okay. Remember Me. It's got him, Robert Pattinson's the male lead

and Claire from Lost. Whose name is Emily Derraven. Got it. Is the female lead. Peanut Butter, Charlie, Los Angeles. I've watched a little lost. That was her game. That was her game, when she was starting with Dominic,

but in this movie, she was a throbbered Pat. The gimmick of this movie that you don't know going in. So we've kind of spoiled it already for you. But the gimmick of this movie that you don't know going in so we've kind of spoiled it already for you But the gimmick of this movie is that it's just some romantic drama and then I don't know How it's like foreshadowed or if it's really foreshadowed But at some point like their kid goes to school and he sits down He's at the black board and the teacher starts writing down like it's his parents have gotten back together or Emily Derave and in fucking You know Robert Pattinson

The teacher starts writing on the board next September 11th 2001 we cut to Robert Pattinson like going up in the elevator and he gets out to go to work And we realized that he works at the World Trade Center and then he's about credit. Yeah, brok roll credit Oh, yeah, that's the end of the movie said he gets he gets killed in nine But like I don't believe that prior to the move, like this isn't part of the marketing, this isn't part of the journal, this isn't part of the... No, no, no, no, it's totally twisted.

Exactly. This is like a shock, let's say. And everyone was like, what the fuck? Everyone was really thrown off. It just makes you say what the fuck. I don't remember it, I never even saw it. Right. Everyone was really strong out of both the end.

Wow, but that's how we all experienced 9-11, right? I never even saw it. Right. Everyone was really strong out of both hands. Wow. But that's how we all experienced 9-11, right? What? What the fuck? Yeah. No. No, that's true. That's actually a fair point in artistic defensive of the choice.

We don't always get foreshadowing in life, man. Sometimes it just hits you. Yeah. Sometimes it just hits you and you start a band. And the rest is history. The rest is BDSM history. The rest is bittersweet infamy. Do it, do it, do it, do it. Okay, you can throw it back. Yeah, I'll take it.

Thanks for listening. If you want more infamy, we've got plenty more episodes at www.bittersweetinfamy.com. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you want to support the podcast, shoot us a few bucks via our coffee account. And KO-FIN-F-I slash Bitter Sweet and Threep. But no pressure. Bitter Sweet and Threep is free, baby. You can always support us by liking, rating, subscribing, leaving a review following us on Instagram at Bitter Sweet and Threep. Or just past podcasts long to a friend who you think would dig in. Stay sweet.

The sources that Amanda used for this episode included an article in the Guardian written by Anna Smith, 50 Shades of Grey, what BDSM enthusiasts think, published February 15, 2015, an article on oldtimemusic.com by Crystal Denham unlocking vampire money by my chemical romance, the meaning behind the song, published October 24th, 2023, the lyrics to skylines and turn styles by my chemical romance as published on genius.com, an article from the website. In the labAD, My Chemical Romance, announces first UK show in eight years. From snopes.com, did 9-11,

rated creation of 50 Shades of Grey, Question Mark, written by Nure, Ibrahim, published June 5th, 2021. An article on showbiz cheat sheet, even though My Chemical Romance inspired Twilight, they were not fans of the saga. Written by Alani Vardas, published July 26, 2020, an article on Forbes entitled 50 Shades

of Green, How Fan Fiction Went From Dirty Little Secret to Money Machine. Written by Hayley C. Cuchinello, February 10, 2017. An article on vice.com, Gerard Wade, witnessing 9-11, written by Gavin Haines, March 26th, 2013, and Amanda looked at the Wikipedia sites for Twilight and Seas of the Meyer novel. Mike Himmigo Romance, 50 Shades of Grey,

and Mast, but certainly not least, the Wikipedia article, the VBSM. The sources that I used for the speech movement of Mists was an article from Houston Chronicle, Mattress Mack, the untold story of Houston's own Jim McCannical. Written by Sarah Smith, published April 29, 2023. I also read a piece featured in the Houston Chronicle entitled The Man Behind The Map. Written by Sarah Smith, Ari Schuetz, Jeremy Blackman, Nicole Hensley, Megan Van Nearns, Matt Young, and Rebecca Hednes.

Also published Equal 26, 2023. I read an article that featured a video entitled Throwback Video Show mattress mac through the years, written by Julie Takahashi, published December 12, 2017, and the Houston Chronicle. And the video that accompanies that article I watched on Facebook entitled Throwback Video Show mattress mac through the years, hosted by The Cron, which is an extension of the Houston Chronicle. If you're interested in becoming a monthly subscriber and getting access to hittersweet exclusives, including our monthly film club and the upcoming holiday mixtape, go ahead and head over to coffee.com slash bittersweetinfoom.com.

That's k-o-f-i-i-dot-c-o-n slash bittersweet-n-th-me. A big shout out, as always, to Jonathan Mountain, our triad and true monthly subscriber, getting those exclusive all the time, Jonathan. Thank you so much! Bittersweet-n-th-me is a proud member of the 604 podcast network. The interstitial music you heard earlier is by Mitchell Collins, and the song you're listening to now is Teesreet by Brian Steve. Business notifications getting out of hand, buried under an avalanche of customer emails,

texts, and social media messages, keep your edge with Thrive Small Business Software and never miss a message again. Thrive offers one solution to communicate, market, and run your business, but simply small businesses run better on Thrive. Get Command Center for free today at thrive.ca. That's THR-Y-V dot CA. Terms and conditions apply. Free plans have limited functionality.