Bittersweet Infamy - #91 - Driven

Episode Date: February 4, 2024

Bittersweet Romance! Josie tells Taylor about astronaut Lisa Nowak and her most dangerous mission: an overnight drive from Houston to Orlando to eliminate a romantic rival. Plus: Jack and Meg White of award-winning rock band The White Stripes—brother and sister? Married? Neither? Both?

Welcome to Bitter Sweden. I'm Taylor Basso. And I'm Josie Mitchell. On this podcast we share the stories that live on and in the feed. The strange and the familiar. The tragic and the comic. The bitter and the sweet. So I love you Taylor. I love you, babe Oh, that's I got you welcome Bittersweet romance if you hear those angels harps playing those wedding bells in the distance The there's a feeling in your chest and it's warm and it feels like you just drank some really good sake That is the feeling of bittersweet romance, wouldn't you say just... Romance! I say that with a rose in my mouth.

Can you hear it? You speak really... Romance! I'm crazy to throw your voice. Oh no, now I definitely hear. Oh wow. Yeah, no, definitely. Watch out for those thorns, Joe. They're prickly. Ow, oh god, ow. No, be careful. Oh, shwee, oh shwee. It's OK, the tongue heals really fast. Fun fact, my birthmark is on my tongue. Did you know that? This is for you to study for the next game show. I know, I'm going to say that's a deep cut.

There could be one today. There could be one coming right now. You never know when it's coming. You never know when it's coming. Oh, that was a fun episode, wasn't it? Nothing says love like an ambush. It's true. To really ring in the love month. Well, it was an ambush of love. Yeah.

It was an ambush of love. That was a good episode. I loved it. I love love. Are you a big, uh, would you call yourself a romantic? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well thank you. Well, let me then let me take over. Okay. No, no, go, go. How do you express, how do you express yourself romantically? Would it be a good way? Are you like a GIFs? Are you like a compliments? Are you like a let me, let me ride

that till it snaps? Like what is your love language? What is my love language? Wow! like, what is your love language? What is my love language? Wow. Writing dicks until I snap. Yeah, that seems like an interesting love language that I don't know. That's not mine. Fair enough.

Fair you, fair enough. You're not snapping them off and saving them for later? Fair enough. Different strokes for different folks, as they say. I think my love language is like maybe checking in with folks. I think that's nice. That's a nice way to make people feel seen. Yeah, I wish I could do it more,

but I found that my relationships that have continued, I have just been like, oh, it's your birthday. I'm gonna call you on your birthday and we won't talk for the whole rest of the year, but I remember that your birthday is the stage I'm gonna call you. Or just sending a text being like, hey, how are you doing? Yeah, I guess to kind of give people an idea of the history of our

relationship, you might have the idea that like we're chummy-chummy and we've always talked as much as we talk now. There were a good many years where you were teaching in China, I was going to school in Vancouver. Yeah. Like we would touch base on special occasions or when you were in town and I was going to school in Vancouver. Yeah. We would touch base on special occasions or when you were in town. And I've always found it very easy to just pick up with you, which I've always really liked about our friendship. But it's always been a thing of just touching base.

Yeah, that's true. That's very true. You heard it here, folks. Romance is when Josie touches base once a year on your birthday. Yep. What's up, I'm Yep. I love you. True to mean keep him keen. Always leave him wanting more.

Yeah. Always leave him being like, God, I just don't spend enough time with Josie. When is the next time we can chat? Mm-hmm. What is your love language, Taylor Baster? I would say my love language is, oh, my love language is absolutely words of affirmation. language is, oh, my love language is absolutely words of affirmation. But I just want to be, I just want to be noticed and complimented and told that I did things right and that I'm special and that I'm smart and that no Taylor, everybody doesn't hate you. And you know, all that good shit. Oh, that's, it's funny because you said that and I was like, oh, so yeah, you check, you like, you tell people like you're doing great, you look great today. Oh yeah, yeah, words of affirmation,

but you're talking about words of affirmation for you. Both, both. Both, okay. Both, both. Well, I think I'm good at it because I perceive, I perceive the need for, I can empathize with it because it's what I want, right? Yeah, okay, yeah.

I'm always trying to feel like ways to make people feel seen that are particular and non-generic. So like, if I observe sincerely that I like the color of your nail polish, which I often do, I will say that to you. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. This is a little thing that I did that someone noticed and always in that, you know, dead at or if you'd like someone's like, I'm very much like a smile and say hi to people on the street type of person. Mm hmm. So I'm like, make a smile and say hi to people on the street type of person. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's so sad. So I'm like make a little snatch a conversation with someone while we're in the...

And because I'm like, I'm good at it, you know? I'm not... I can reliably make strangers smile with like one off observations and then just send them on their way and maybe they're a little bit brighter for having run into me. I don't know. That's my love language is small talk with strangers. Aw, I love that. I'm the only person in the world who likes small talk. We've run the tests. It's just me. Aw. Well, Josie, you ready for a minfamous? I am ready for a short story that'll warm me up for this episode. And it's gotta be about romance and it's gotta be about love because it's February and it's bittersweet romance.

And it's bittersweet romance. So naturally we only have wielding love stories. And I've got a short love story for you. Ooh. Josie, what do you know about the band, the White Stripes? Oh, I know that they were popular when I was in high school. And I know that they would wear red and white and that they were a married couple or they were brother and sister and that was always like well what which is one which is a Jack white and yeah I don't know her Meg Meg Meg but

Jack and Meg wait well Josie it's funny you should mention that nobody knows if their siblings or married because that's what I've brought today. Oh, beautiful. Mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah. Feel your love. Very tailor-coded story this week. Okay, all right. So to kind of elaborate on what Josie said, there's a very good description.

They did have this gimmick of... I didn't realize that this was so much their gimmick, that they only wore red, white, and black as well. Yeah. But it was apparently very prominent part of their the way that they marketed themselves is that they only wore red and black Yeah, they have a very iconic video for a very iconic song Seven Nation Army One of the most iconic guitar riffs in music history, right? iconic guitar riffs in music history, right? And uh... I'm back! Jack. Josie's gonna be so mad she missed Jack White showing up.

Is he my brother? I don't know. Who can say, well... More and more. More and more. And uh, this music video is very, very iconic. It's a red and black music video. It's very graphic. It sort of recall a red and black music video. It's very graphic. It sort of recalls the iPod commercials that are kind of coming up around that time. That's, yeah.

It feels very like cutting edge in its aesthetic and its presentation, at least for like, it's a 2003 video that feels like it was released in like 2007, 2008 after American Apparel had made its way to the suburbs. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. Yeah. You're watching the music video on your like advanced iPod. Yeah, exactly. iPod video. Yeah. The red and black thing has a very complicated, in my opinion, kind of pretentious explanation that comes from Jack White. And the vibe of these two,

I just, I love these two together. They're such a vibe. He's just this very pretentious, weirdo musician who will cut these long, complicated paragraphs about anything and everything. And she is a deeply intense introvert who does not speak in public except to say it. Except occasionally to make some little comment about something Jack has said.

And he'll be like, she's right, you know, this is why I love her. They're so funny together. And they only wear red and white and black. They're such, like, I instantly get the way that they've packaged themselves as a duo. It makes perfect, perfect sense to me and I'm completely bought in.

Okay. So many media outlets, including the Los Angeles Times, the Boston Globe and the New Yorker profiled the White Stripes when they rose to prominence at the dawn of the new millennium. And according to them, the story of the White Stripes was that brother and sister Jack and Meg White grew up together as the youngest of 10 children in Detroit. Oh yeah, that's right. Detroit. That was another big part of their story was. They're Detroit. They're from Detroit.

And they have a lot of Jack, I should say, has a lot of explanations of how being from Detroit has influenced their music and things like that. Well, Jack was a lifelong musician. Meg just picked up drumming on her brother's set one day on OM. She just picked up the sticks and went to eat shit. And he was like, oh, keep doing that. And together, they formed a group called the White Stripes

based on their last name and Meg's love of peppermint. All right, OK. True to that name, they only wore red, white, and black as part of their stage presentation. The pair formed in the late 90s and twirled in relative anonymity until their breakthrough 2001 album, White Blood Sells. And they were claimed 2003 album, Elephant, minted, no pun intended, them as indie rock royalty.

Yep. Part of what made the act special was the crackling onstage chemistry between the members of the band. The type of raw sexual tension you can only build with someone who emerged from the same womb as you did. Says... Says, Sinead Stebbins writing in the cut when I saw them at a music festival in my hometown says Says Sinead Stebbins writing in the cat when I saw them at a music festival in my hometown of Melbourne I was slightly confused by their intense somewhat smoldering eye contact with each other throughout the show Imagine a stir then when a 2001 story in the Detroit Free Press by Christopher Walton claims the following quote

Though it has been widely reported that the band or brother and sister there actually former husband and wife divorced since March 2000, according to Oakland County Circuit Court Records. Woo, woo, woo. Shortly afterwards, Entertainment Weekly published Jack and Meg's marriage certificate along with corroboration in the form of interviews with family and friends,

indicating that Jack was actually born Jack Gillies and took Meg's name when they married in 1996. Because of course he took her name. He's so that guy. He's of course that guy. Let him be, let him be that guy. And why not? And why not? So what's going on?

When journalists brought that question to Jack, he indicated that the two of them had started a marriage rumor to troll his journalist. He told enemy.com, we're brother and sister. Someone started a rumor about how he used to be married and we played along with it. That was a bad idea and we get asked this all the time now. Another journey. OK, OK, I'm just I'm laying that but wait and then oh and then OK, OK.

No, I need to pause more again. I'm just I'm just amped yeah i don't dare dare dare dare dare dare dare yeah another journalist who brought the question to the band was journalist chuck clausterman for spin in 2002 another kind of big name of this era yeah yeah big name i've got i've got an interview here it's you know a little back and forth between chuck clausterman and jack white Meg is in the room silently observing as she's wanted to. Corner. Yeah. Just lurking. And um. Good for her. Fuck the press. Would you be kind enough to read the Chuck Klosterman lines and I'll be Jack White? Yes. You refer to Meg as

your sister. Wait, wait, and she's in the room when he's asking this? Yes, yes, yes. You refer to Meg as your sister. However, your marriage certificate was published in Entertainment Weekly. I didn't see any signature on that certificate. It certainly didn't look real to me. If people don't want to believe that Meg is my sister, that's fine. But why would people try to portray you as previously married? Because America loves gossip. Everyone loves gossip.

England loves gossip. Detroit is the gossip. Everyone loves gossip. England loves gossip. Detroit is the gossip capital of the country. But can't you just end the gossip by telling the truth? No. The gossip is what everybody wants. If I told you that Meg is my cousin and that she's always been my cousin and I could prove it, people would say that's a lie too. People won't believe the truth. And the reason we don't want to talk about this is because it perpetuates the idea that we're trying to do all this on purpose. If we'd wanted to fool people, we would have come up with a story a lot crazier than this. You're asserting that the magic certificate is fake and all your friends who say you're

divorced are all fucking with you. Parentheses, smiles. Smiles. So that's kind of like anyone who puts this question to him invariably gets this like exact maze of double top. Yeah. But like what does it really mean to be a sister, you know, in this economy, in this landscape?

Detroit is Motor City, baby. That's kind of how it goes anytime someone tries to negotiate this. Everybody loves gossip. Gossip is root of all evil. Everyone loves it. Yeah, Evelyn loves gossip. Detroit loves gossip. Detroit is the gossip capital of America. I mean, you do kinda have to love how it's not even

rock and roll fuck the system. I love everything about it. Yeah, it's like rock and roll like what is the system? It feels a lot like I'm rock and roll make myself laugh Yeah rock and roll how far can I push this? Just just for me. Just just for me. Yeah, just a little joke for me But also what if it's what if their brother and sister? What if what if it is all fake or what if they got married and found out they were brother and sister? What if their brother and sister they got married and found out they were brother and sister? What if they're brother and sister who got married? And then they divorced because it didn't work out because society was ignorant about what a brother and sister in love should be

Which should look like they say you can't be a brother and sister and be married and be internationally famous rock stars Says who yeah not Meg White. She doesn't say anything. Not a peep. Oh my God, I love this story. So by the time Jack spoke with Rolling Stone for a profile in 2005, he didn't outright admit that he and Meg were a divorced couple rather than a brother and sister, but he offered the closest I could find to a proper explanation. Quote, I want you to imagine if we had presented ourselves in another fashion that people might have thought was the truth, how would we have been perceived

right off the bat when you see a band that's two pieces, husband and wife, boyfriend and girlfriend, you think, oh, I see. When they're brother and sister, you go, oh, that's interesting. You care more about the music, not the relationship, whether they're trying to save their relationship by being in a band. You don't think about that with a brother and sister. They're mated

for life. That's just what family is like. Hmm. So what do you make of that? Because I've said to you before that I wouldn't really like to be famous in this kind of way. They don't either of them particularly seem to like the the fame part of it. Jack, I think. Certainly not. No, Meg, Meg fucking hates it. Jack likes it in so far as it gives him little opportunities to be the mad hatter in interviews, but he really just seems to like the music. He's

like a music nerd. He just likes the music of it really. And so I kind of if if in fact, not saying it is, but if in fact it is an absurd lie that they are brother and sister, I kind of get it. And it works for like, it clearly has built the mystique of the band because all anyone really, other than like big fans of the band, all anyone really remembers is like Seven Nation Army, maybe that they wore red and white and that you didn't really know if they were fucking each other or if they were like blood relatives. It was not clear. Right, yeah. Which I love. I love that gimmick. I think that's fantastic. I love everything about this. Truly I do. There's not one thing that I don't like. There's an element of it that I'm enjoying because it calls into question like, why does it matter? Like it's not, is it affecting the music?

Like, is seven-ation or are we gonna get less catchy if they're brother and sister? Right, yeah. What's affecting the music is that they obviously have some type of bond and they can like, collaborate and make music together and that's rad, but who cares what that bond is? And yeah, I don't know.

There's something like, something kind of nice about obfuscating it. So to kind of like hold something to your chest, but in that process creating more press or more excitement or more like, I don't know, intrigue, it is kind of nice. It is kind of funny. And isn't it sweet? Once you get away from the brother and sister of it all, isn't it sweet that here's this evidently divorced couple who, if you accept this truth as uh, as Jack puts it, this fashion that people might have thought was the truth, that they were uh, some divorced couple, wouldn't it be nice the idea that like,

oh look, they stayed together as a band, he's still f- she's got a really particular style of drumming and she gets like a lot of shit for it and he's very defensive of her and like her contributions to the band. She would later get married to another dude in his backyard. His new wife was cool with it. Just this really heartful relationship between a divorced couple that then went to like superstar fame, right? Like that's really cool. Despite being again at least 50% deeply introverted. Like so introverted that it is like the first thing anyone comments on about her personality. Right, yeah. Man, that bitch does not talk for anyone, except for Jack White. The White Stripes officially dissolved in 2011

with over a decade of awards, accolades, and football stadium chance under their belt. Meg, can I shock you? Not at all. Meg retired from public life. Oh, okay. She does not perform. She does not, she's done.

She's, that's it for Big White. Yep, aha. Well, Jack has gone on to a bunch of other successful projects They both since married other people the war about whether Jack and Meg White our siblings are fucking continues to this day Right those on this podcast right here today podcast the lines remain blurry Those on the prosecution point to the extensive documentation that supports the fact that they're a pair of high school sweethearts who got married, formed a band, got divorced, and pretended to be siblings in order to avoid awkward interviews and make themselves laugh. Those on team siblings point out that they really, really look like brother and sister.

What irrefutable evidence? Irrefutable evidence. Look, they both mope the same. It's a witty. They're both wearing red. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. So we here, in order to bridge this divide, we here at Bitter Student from me offer the compromise solution. Why not both?

And with that, we bid a fond farewell to Jack and Meg White, the brother and sister who are made for life. We salute you. We sure fucking do. I love salute. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha It's whatever you believe in your heart, you know, whatever makes your walk through the world easier If you want to believe that these two are just like a really functional divorced couple who like to tell us silly lies You go with that but if you want them to be like this like brother and sister from a family of ten who just like you can tell in their eyes that They want to fuck and have fucked and will fuck again. You can do that too. I love how you equate our

Meg and Jack White married to is there God or is there not a God? I don't see the difference. I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Yeah, it is a great gimmick though, I gotta say. It's such a good gimmick. It's so good. It's so good. Because I was thinking about like, I was going through...

Gimmicks? Were you trying to think of gimmicks for Bitter Sweet Empty? No, no, no, no, no. Should we be divorced? I'm gimmicked out. Okay. That's a little sad. Let's try to make it work.

Let's try to make it work first for the kids, okay? Baby Ajax. It's the month of love. It's the month of love. It's the loveliest month of them all. It's short, but it's sweet. It's a little longer this year because there's 29 days. Just a tix more of love. On Valentine's Day to celebrate, we are going to be dropping our discussion.

It's going to be me, Mitchell and Josie again of The Honeymoon Killers. This is a film from 1970. I think it's pretty decent movie, but it's very it's very harrowing in its presentation at times, but it's also like kind of campy and funny. It becomes like kind of funny. I don't want to say anymore. I watched the trailer and I was like, this is this is gnarly. This is a lot.

This is like going 60 straight out of the garage honeymoon killers join us Valentine's Day so if you want to if you want to snuggle up with a box of chocolates eat it all yourself and listen no share no share z's become a monthly subscriber on coffee.com ko-fi.com slash bittersweetemfamy and then you'll get access to some wonderful exclusives like the bittersweet home club. Better safe home club, baby. Well today I'm going to share one woman's story of when she did something very out of character for love, very intense.

I'm worried. Okay. for love, very intense. I'm worried. Okay. And well, there were some legal repercussions, but it was in the name of love, in the name of love, Taylor. We can forgive a lot in the name of love. Who among us? Ah.

Who among us? You know what? I am willing to hear this woman out because I'm a big believer in love. I think that, you know what what we can lift cars out of love You know, I I'm willing to take the journey take me on the ride. The funny that you say the ride because it is February 3rd late late night on the 3rd so we're going into the 4th 2007 and

Lisa our gal she's behind the wheel of her car driving from Houston, Texas's girlfriend, Colleen Shipman. So Colleen has caught a flight from Houston to go back home to Orlando. She lives at Cape Canaveral. And if you drive really fast you can beat the plane. If you drive through the night, apparently. Our girl, Lisa, parks at the airport and Colleen Shipman's luggage does not follow her. So she decides to wait for her luggage to come. So even though it's late late at night on the 3rd, she stays until 3am at the airport to wait for her luggage.

So does our gal, Lisa. Lisa follows her to her car, meaning she gets on a parking shuttle bus, an empty parking shuttle bus at 3 a.m. And follows Colleen Shipman to her car, gets off of the shuttle at the same time. Very ominous. The worst thing that you can imagine happening to you at like 3 AM, huh, is like someone

is like following you on a separate vehicle to your parking spot. Also seeing this person and you've noticed that they're obviously wearing a wig and a trench coat and they have red rimmed glasses on. Oh no. They're in witness protection. and a trench coat and they have red rimmed glasses on. They're in witness protection. There's a very like what is this person doing? And also, Colleen Shipman has been waiting at the airport for two hours in the middle of night

and has seen this woman in a wig and trench coat and red rimmed glasses like at a bus stop lurking by the drinking fountain. Like she's kind of appearing in all these different places. Like at Carmen San Diego villain poking out behind the wall, flying by in a hot air balloon, popping up out of a manhole, all of the above. So Colleen disembarks the shuttle and quickly gets to her car, shoves her bags in the back seat, gets

in the front, the driver's seat and locks the car when, locks the car doors. Good girl, good girl. All of a sudden there's a p-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t knocking on the driver's side window. The drive, drive. She's like started the car up and she's about to go but this woman is like too close to the car to actually move, right? Fuck it, killer. Sorry. I don't want to go there this early. Love is in there. Let me walk that back. Let me walk that back.

Be more concerned about your own safety. Perhaps, perhaps. Parentheses, fuck it, killer. Yeah. The woman in the Trinch coat and wig, our gal, Lisa. Oh, gosh. She yells, my boyfriend was supposed to pick me up. He hasn't picked me up. It's really late.

I've been traveling. Can you drive me to the parking office? And Colleen Shipman says, I know I won't, but I can get somebody to help you. I can bring somebody to help you, but I'm not gonna drive you. Argyle Lisa in the wig and trench coat says, oh, please, please, please, I just, can I use your phone? Lisa.

Colleen Shipman, my phone's battery is dead. I don't know, no, I'll get somebody to help you. Lisa in her wig and trench coat starts like slamming on the door, slamming on the door, saying help me, help me, she bursts into tears. Colleen Shipman is in the vehicle saying like, I will get somebody to help you. Lisa in her wig and trench coat says I can't hear you. I can't

hear you. So Colleen. No do not fucking roll down the window Colleen. Two inches that's it. No that's. A blast of pepper spray. Interes the car. Lisa. Colleen Shipman puts in reverse and rips it out to the parking attendant little hub thing. Yeah, the little photo hut. Yeah, the photo hut. She holds her breath as she goes so she doesn't inhale the pepper spray. Oh, that's harsh. She safely gets to the attendant and explains the situation and says, you need to call the

police. Somebody, some woman is trying to attack me and finally she like you know lets it hits her that this is pepper spray and she can't see she's in intense pain. Security camera shows Lisa taking off her wig and Trink's coat and shoving a duffel bag into a nearby trash can. Lisa. The Orlando police arrive and start questioning folks and finally make an arrest because it's clear that there was an altercation and Lisa was at fault. They take her in for questioning, take her mugshot

the whole nine yards to find out that our gal, Lisa, is Lisa Nowak, a very well-established Houston-based astronaut who, a year prior, had been up to the International Space Station. But she came back down to settle a fucking score. But she said, I've got shit left on Earth to deal with. Hold on, the hair is shooting down with a fucking knife in her teeth. Kinda, yeah. She was a prominent member of her community, a mother of three.

At the time, her son was a teenager and she had two twin daughters. I think they were about nine. And she had been in a 19 year relationship with her husband. They lived in the Houston area. They lived in Clear Lake, which is where Mitchell grew up.

Interesting, okay. Uh-huh, yeah. She had had an extramarital affair with another astronaut. Which I get. Yeah. And I bet it happens a lot. Yeah, I bet it does too. Hey babe, hey babe, do you know what earth looks like

from above? No, that must be nice. You know. You know. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Hey babe, do you know what earth looks like from above? Yeah, you squeeze out some nice apricot paste in your mouth and you fucking take that view and well you use a fucking

hydraulic wrench to put some scratch. Good shit. Some people can see who know what it means. You know what it feels like to shit in the pouch or whatever it is these people do. Yeah. Well, interesting to say shit in the pouch because as the police searched Lisa's car, they also found that they found a few items, incriminating items. Incriminating slash quizzical was a set of diapers. Yes, and that much would be made of. Yes, yes.

Allegedly, she had used on the 900 mile trip from Houston to Orlando. They are also kind of a very routine piece of equipment for astronauts to use in the space shuttle and in training and everything. Allegedly. Allegedly, allegedly, right? So this became to my memory. And my understanding slash assumption coming in is that like, they didn't crack her like actually wearing a diaper. This is just there were diapers in the car and it somehow gets like, telephoned into this literally

becoming the lady astronaut with the shit diapers. Yeah. If it comes the diaper story. Yeah. For Dipey. The astronaut diaper story. Yes, yes, lady astronaut diaper drove all night. That's what you remember. So you know the story. Lady astronaut diaper drove all night and the only reason I know that she wasn't actually wearing a diaper is cause I saw some YouTube videos like, hey, she wasn't actually wearing a diaper.

I was like, huh, didn't know that. So, you know, it's one of those. I think you're right, the diaper becomes like this really pivotal media, I don't know. It's a hook. It's a hook, it's a hook those. I think you're right. The diaper becomes like this really pivotal media. It's a hook. It's a hook. It's a hook. All the late night comedians get to make a little joke about it.

Yes. And you get to depends on dependable wife, you know, whatever. She's like, obviously very accomplished, but she's also like this beautiful woman in her forties. Like, like her and a diaper is kind of comical in some way. Diapers are funny. Diapers inherently kind of are funny. Yeah, yeah.

You shit in them. What are you going to do? That's the human condition, baby. I know, exactly. But apparently, so these are the astronaut technology, the astronaut gear is called maximum absorbency garments. So max and astronauts might wear them on the launch pad where like they cannot get up from their seats

and it might be hours upon hours. So there's just like pivotal moments in spaceflight where you would be using such a garment for me. I thought you meant a garment. Not for me. Not for me. I thought you meant a diaper. Well, that's part of why. It's a lot of, it's a lot of like, I think claustrophobia mainly would be my undoing. Yeah. But this idea of like, you're gonna sit there in an hour. Well, for, you know, for left off, you just gotta sit there for four hours and shit your pants. Like, fuck no. Fuck no. Yeah. No. Gosh, no. Absolutely not. It's for humankind though, Taylor. Would you shit your pants. Like fuck no, fuck no. No. Gosh no. Absolutely not.

It's for humankind though, Taylor. Would you shit your pants for the next frontier? How many times? How many times? I'm willing to negotiate but you need to bring me the number. I have no time to mention myself. So police reports stated that she wore these maximum of Presorbentcy garments during her trip, but later she does deny it. And in fact, she explains that she had them in the car and they had been there for like a year because during Hurricane Rita, her family had to evacuate and they had no place to go.

And they like literally no place to stay. So they lived out of the car. They were in a parking lot for like a day and a half and they apparently used these maximums or many comments. Sure. I don't know. And she just never removed them from the car. Sure, interesting, interesting.

But I'm sure that there's much more to the story than a shitty or non-shitty dating. It's true. Let me tell you this story. How do we get to this point? I think that's a really good question. Great questions all around. Great question. Yeah.

Yeah. How does this astronaut, which I think across the board, we can agree astronauts are the pinnacle of academic excellence, like physical excellence. You have to be like a really jacked nerd who's proficient in a bunch of different sciences and mechanical things. Yes. Yeah.

And then even among that like top tier of folks, you have to prove your salt even more if you want to get selected for a mission, which Lisa was. And on top of that, she's a woman in a male-dominated industry. She's a mother of three. She is gnarly. Like twins. Twins. Yes, but the corollary to that I would say is that like that an astronaut would have like the sort of like a single-minded intensity and determination to pull off something like for example driving, doing this big long ass drive and putting like I don't know if the wig in the trench coat is just like academic excellence but the determination. The determination.

The determination. The sheer persistence. Yeah. Yeah. The chariot's a fire, the human will, you know, this sort of thing. She was born in Washington, D.C. in 1963 and grew up in Maryland. She, from a very young age, decided that she wanted to be an astronaut and made calculations from a very young age to get herself into a position of becoming an astronaut.

Okay. She was a very accomplished high school student, very, very smart, and she had a choice of attending colleges. One was the Naval Academy or Brown University, which is like an Ivy League. But even though her parents thought, hey, Brown would be great for you. This might be a good choice and you can still kind of pursue what you want to pursue. She said no. I want to be in the military because that's what's going to lead me into becoming an astronaut. Sure. So she went to the US Naval Academy.

She studied aeronautical engineering and astronautical engineering. She does, you know, all this kind of crazy, crazy, very intense science stuff and engineering stuff. She goes to the Naval Postgraduate School to continue her studies. She goes to the Naval Test Pilot School where she continues her work as an aerospace engineer. She's not a pilot. She never studied to be or was a pilot. But her specialty gets narrowed down to electronic warfare. That's scary. A little scary. And I think this is the part of like astronauts and NASA, which I find it interesting, but it's also a little saddening to me, I

suppose, is that you want to go up there to see what's up there and expand human knowledge, not find ways to shoot missiles at other people from higher up. Yes, but the system is built so that folks who have excelled in the military are the ones who are selected to go up. Okay, interesting. Even if you're a person of academic excellence, that's not necessarily what they're looking for, military folks, to a degree.

Yeah, to a degree. Because the way that the astronaut programs are run, they're very intense physical training, which feeds into the military training. Yeah. And they're just built on the same hierarchies. They should try putting unhealthy people in space. That's it, that's the whole thought.

Yeah, see this, this, yeah, how about- They should just start putting like really like out of shape. You should have to like not work out for like at least three to four weeks before you go up. So you have like aches and pains and groans. Yeah. And we'll just see what happens for science. Yeah, exactly.

No, there's a Texas Monthly article that describes, especially like this era of astronauts as a cold-blooded, nerveless band of overachievers. Yeah, sure. Yeah, and I would add like crew cuts. Yeah, very, I get that. Very militaristic view of the world where it's like, yes sir, no sir.

This is a command, so I will do it. And yeah, exactly what you were describing, how like, oh, we're going to expand human imagination by like studying the stars and space and- God, how beautiful, yeah. The people at the forefront of it aren't allowed and are awarded when they don't have imagination or like any type of creativity beyond the creativity of perhaps like engineering, which I agree has a lot of a lot of you want people up there who are going to follow orders, you know, you want people up there who are going to who are going to toe the line and report back to

Houston when there's a problem and yeah, exactly Yeah exactly. You don't need any of these space renegades. No, yeah I get it to a good degree But if you're also gonna tow the line of like expanding human consciousness, then don't give me pure military Dude, I was just thinking I'm so happy we haven't been to space in a while I'm so happy we're back to space and I was like wait, this isn't a space story This is like I someone pepper spraying someone when they try to fumble with their keys story so happy we're back to space. And I was like, wait, this isn't a space story. Ha ha ha ha ha. This is like someone pepper spraying, someone while they fumble with their key story.

Ha ha ha ha. There's a lot going on here. Well, there's a few things. Yeah, we can take a pit stop. Much like the Frizz, we can take a second ride at Mars, you know? We don't have to wear diapers. We can take a few pit stops.

That's okay. Okay, so her specialty is electronic warfare. She marries an Annapolis classmate at the Naval Academy on April 6, 1988. His name is Richard T. Noah. And so she takes his last name. They get married at the Naval Academy Chapel. The whole, you know, the whole thing. The whole thing, yes. The meat cuteness of it all is navy, navy, navy. And he's obviously like up in the upper echelons of the navy as well.

But he doesn't have the same drive to be an astronaut that she does. They're married, she's in various graduate school programs, test pilot programs that kind of bounce them across the country, which, you know, as a military family they were probably gonna do anyway. But she spends time in Monterey, California. She's back on the East Coast some. And then out of the Navy, she applies for a very specialized naval test pilot school that takes her and I should say she applies six times. She doesn't get in the first

persistent five very persistent, very driven. Yes. She finally gets in and starts working at Ellington. It's the Ellington airport, which is actually very close to Houston. It's like between downtown Houston and Clear Lake. And so she and her husband moved to Houston and she puts in an application through the Navy to be an astronaut. So how this works is that if you are within a military branch, your branch of military has to essentially recommend you to be in an astronaut class. Oh, interesting. Yeah. If you are selected and it's a very rigorous selection process that includes a lot of testing, a lot of physicals, all the whole thing.

So if you are selected to be in that astronaut class, then you train for years upon years upon years. It's not until you're selected to be on a mission that you can go into space. So you could be in an astronaut class and never go to space. It's like you're in the fastest finger pool. Yeah.

The one who wants to be a millionaire. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Got it, interesting. How frustrating I imagine. I bet there's a lot of politicking and a lot of ass kissing in a situation like that. I need you to recommend me to the pool and then I need to get out of the pool. You know? Yeah.

I got it. Interesting. And there's the very real possibility that these highly accomplished people who have been selected to be in this astronaut class. And have trained possibly like Lisa. Yes. Their whole lives pointing at this moment. Yeah. Never make it. Yeah, that's interesting.

They never make it into space. And so it becomes this very like rarefied thing that you're constantly in competition for. Yeah, I bet. Oh, scary. Almost what makes you want to snap and mace somebody for fucking your man. Yeah, no, kind of. So she is one of 35 people selected to be in this astronaut class, which at the

time was only the second largest class since 1978. So that first round of astronauts in 1978, that is 35 people and it includes like Sally Ride, the first female astronaut. It includes a lot more diversity. There's a black astronaut. There's, you know, like, they're starting to expand things and NASA is trying to like take on the Star Trek vibes of space exploration. Right, Uhura, yes.

Thank you, Nisho Nichols, yes. So this is another round of inclusive recruiting. It's another round specifically for these missions that are meant to take astronauts to the International Space Station. So in the 80s, Reagan signed off on all of these. Oh, that's right. Fuck Reagan. It's been a while. Fuck them. Fuck them. Yeah. We're bringing all our old bits back. Oh that's so nice. Let's do the moral at the end of this one.

Fuck it, why not? Oh the moral hasn't been around in so long. This is great. Very long time. Very long time. Oh have fun. So Reagan, he signs off on these missions that will take astronauts to the International Space Station, which is this kind of new, glammy thing that's promoted as the future. It's going to be like the space station. It's F-Quantan space. Yeah, it's 2001 Space Odyssey. It's going to be this huge piece of infrastructure that civilians will be able to access by the 90s. Where is my ticket? We're all going to be going to space.

Yeah. Oh, shit, the bed on that one. All of a sudden, healthy folks will be able to go. Yeah, I could smoke my joint just like this open flame in the fucking ISS. Yeah. As long as I'm in the special section. In a designated little phone booth, you'll be fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll be fine.

She's part of this this huge class that apparently they're called the sardines because they have to pack them into classrooms and test centers and stuff like that. It's kind of cute. No, it's not. That sounds awful. Yeah, I mean, this is also a point that I wanted to make about NASA and you experienced this visiting the Johnson Space Center. Right. NASA is like in a fucking strip mall. Like it is not that glamorous. No, it's not. No, it's like a big rectangle building.

It's like a big brown rectangle. Yeah, there's like a dead roach in every corner. Like. Oh, but no, the building itself is nothing to write home about at all. Yeah. I mean, what they do is impressive and like, but I don't know, I think I just get the sense that I'm gonna like walk into this like architectural wonder.

Like, have you a museum of anthropology in Mexico City? Have you been there? Beautiful, beautiful stunning. Oh my God. I went there with you, I went there with you. Yes, yes, yes. That space is like, it like, shakes you. Great gift shop. Fantastic gift shop. Fantastic went there with you. Yes, yes, yes. That space is like, it like shakes you.

Great gift shop. Fantastic gift shop. Fantastic gift shop. But it like, it really just kind of like, it shakes you and then it grounds you. Yeah. Because it's so striking. There's this like waterfall and like, yeah. It's stately and modern and ensconced in trees. It's like, it's off of a very, a large park. Yeah. So you kind of wander in there from the park. Yeah. I really Mexico City man. Y'all should go Mexico City else are very good good gift shops Yeah, I would agree. Yes, that is an incredibly stately space and no NASA is not that I will say NASA is big. It's very big, but everything's bigger in Texas Everything is baby, which honestly kind of yeah in the sense that it's very big

But like I say, it's in a big flat field and it's off very big highways. Everything kinda is bigger in size down there. You find these kind of big sprawling buildings that are kinda not the warehouse-y and nothing special, but Oops, NASA is inside, you know? Yeah, it's true. It's true. They needed all that space to set up an entirely new campus essentially. So it's 1996. No I get selected to be part of this astronaut class for the International Space Station

with the idea that they're doing repairs, they're bringing up supplies, they're expanding the International Space Station into this marvelous wonderful thing that we will all be able to visit and it'll be a, you know, an international resource. Her and her family moved to Clear Lake. Her husband, who is a navy pilot, he leaves active duty and he joins the United States Naval Reserve. So he's like kind of like on call, but it's more of a part-time situation. He eventually finds a job as a communications contractor And then he works at Johnson Space Center as flight controller in mission control So he's like one of those people with like a you know a headset on beep beep boop boop sure in 1992

She has their first child a young son. She is in training during this time though. She probably fired that baby out, dude. Oh man, yeah, yeah. Like a torpedo. I got a marathon tomorrow, so let's get this out, yeah. Her contractions are like when you put a hot pop can into ice cold water and it just crutches. That tight core. So tight, so tight. and it just crunches. That tight core.

So tight, so tight. Her training involves like a three day trip to the Grand Canyon to study geology. They're taking routine trips in a Boeing KC-135, which is a special aircraft also deemed the vomit comet. That's the one that like drops the urine zero gravity. Evocative. There's a lot of training that's done in the weightless environment training facility which is essentially just a huge ass pool that NASA owns and there's a replica of the International Space Station in the fucking

pool which I think is pretty rad. Yeah. That's awesome. I love that. I want to go in the fucking pool, which I think is pretty rad. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. I know. I love that. I wanna go in the replica space station in the pool. Yeah, I know. Just like dive down. The whole idea is supposed to be weightless and like getting used to moving in the spacesuits

when you have that much resistance. Interesting, interesting. That again, not something I would enjoy at all. Go swim in the spacesuit, you know? Yeah, no, no, no, no. Not for me, not for Tay-Tay. No pooping in diapers. No poopy, no diaper. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, fuck, I'm sure, want to go into it flooded. Well, yeah, I do.

I really do. Yeah. I'm not that interested in going into space, but like going into the submerged ISS. Yeah, get me in there. I'll do that. All right, but Lisa? Oh yeah, Lisa. Lisa's just doing it?

Yeah. So it's in 2001 that NoAC becomes pregnant with twins, which I'm just trying to like, she works like 50, 60 hours a week in astronaut training. Like that core is amazing though. That core is, do she have a kid in 1992? You can only tell because there's a child living in her home. It's like,'s not yeah. In 2004, she meets a fellow astronaut William, he's called Bill Ophelain.

He is selected in the 1998 astronaut pool, like the astronaut class. It's like a draft. A little bit, yeah, yeah. But they're on call. They're just like getting training and doing paperwork. It's like a draft, but then you don't do anything with them for a long time. You just do the draft. Yeah, yeah.

I'm gonna get you, amuse yourselves till we need you. Stay on pins and fucking needles until we need you, please, and thank you. Mm-hmm, don't gain five pounds. That would be bad. Uh-uh. But she meets Bill and their colleagues, their coworkers in 2004,

they are both selected to do a special harsh weather training in Quebec, actually. Oh wow. Yeah, they get flown up into the Northern wilderness of Quebec, dropped out of a plane and then expected to find their way back to a military base. Just the two of them? No, it's a small group of about five or six

astronauts in training. We're team building. This is Trust Falls, but. Yes. It's a bigger fall in a lot of trust. Exactly, exactly. So they meet earlier than that just as co you know, as co-workers. But this is kind of where it's surmised that they really started to connect.

Not a bad trip to Northern Quebec. Yeah. Love is in the air. Ooh, but he's doing it. In this snowy air. Yeah. Bill is also married, just like Lisa is. Everyone's got flaws. He has two kids. They hit it off.

They both love to race bicycles and run marathons and do brainy astronaut things. They've got so much in common. Like you say, what is it like looking down on Earth so that it looks like a marble? Oh no, honey, no, no, no, no. What's it like surviving the wilderness of Northern Quebec?

Wouldn't it be nice if you could just have a little short hand about the time the wolverine attacked you and saw her blood fall in the snow? You know whatever it is. Yeah. Wolverine, wolverine, wolverine bites, m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Their affair is described as intense, sexual. Oh, I would expect no less.

These are athletes. And highly secretive. The wig and the trench coat. The wig and the trench coat. I understand that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, like we were discussing, NASA is built on kind of these militaristic hierarchies

and rules and regulations as well. It should also be noted that Lisa is still considered to be in the Navy. She's still under their jurisdiction as well. So between NASA and the Navy, you have to comport yourself in a certain way according to both rules and regulations of both entities and having extramarital affairs. This is so much pressure all around. Yes, I know, I know. This is so, you have to be so, and like, Josie, you and I both,

as much as we're both intelligent, I wouldn't say that either of us is particularly Taipei in terms of like being desperately ambitious. Right, yeah. You know what I mean? I think that we both have goals and dreams that we are trying to achieve. Yeah.

But neither of us is like, I need to be running the marathon while pregnant and training to be an astronaut. And all of these things, it's too much. It's too much. And you have a morals clause now. You don't even get stealth dick. Yeah. What is the world coming to? You don't even get stealth dick. Yeah.

What is the world coming to? I don't know. That our government employees can't cheat anymore. Yeah, yeah. This is a proud American tradition. So that highly secretive is backed by this idea that like if this is found out, there could be consequences,

not just in their social and personal lives, but in their careers, which they have worked extremely meticulously at. At this time when they get together in about 2004, Bill's marriage is falling apart. He's already separated. Yellow light. Yeah, yeah. It's a yellow light situation. I don't know.

I don't know. I'm just a little caution. But I like that. That's good. Oh, I just made it up now. Yeah, yeah, yellow light. Just speed on through. If it turns red, if you're in the intersection, it doesn't count. Too much?

She's still in her marriage. She has like, you know, twin three-year-olds and that kind of thing. During this time that the affair is kind of going and moving, her husband, who is in the naval reserve, he's actually called into duty and he is sent overseas, which essentially puts her in a position where she has a very strenuous full-time job. She has two small toddlers to take care of,

an older son, she's essentially a single mom without their father there. Right. Like we're talking about the pressure of like not being in an affair, the pressure of your career just being pens and needles, 24 seven, physical, mental, all of it. Hiding it from your spouse, hiding it from your kids. All of it together. So it's like, well, yeah, get that stealth dick.

Like go to Quebec and... Yeah, break it off. Yeah. Go and break it off. Yeah. Go and break it off. Yeah, break that dick off for sure, for sure, for sure. Their affair, her and Bill, it's pretty intense, but they're also, they've built these families and they know that this is extramarital.

So according to Bill, there's an understanding that this is an adult relationship. It will be level-headed, it will be, you know, what it needs to be at this moment kind of thing. In my experience, I would say that those kind of things can be hard to emotionally regulate. Yeah. It can be real easy for people to get attached when they are screwing constantly and spending all of their time doing really intense shit

with one another, right? Through the trials and evidence and everything, there was on Earth a letter that Lisa wrote to Bill's mother, which is interesting because it's like, okay, well, Bill, if you're thinking that this is just like a thing on the side, Lisa knowing and communicating with your mother is not part of that. But in this letter, she writes to Bill's mom, so her lover's mother. This is gonna be good. Bill is absolutely the best person I've ever known and I love him more than I knew possible. Your kindness in supporting us even under such circumstances as have existed in the past is nothing short of extraordinary.

Fortunately, that past situation is finally coming to a close with formal separation and separate living arrangements accomplished. And I'm in the process of completing all the official divorce paperwork. It is long overdue but is finally here and I'm very much looking forward to getting to know you even better What a good daughter-in-law right who could take issue. She's an astronaut. You know, yeah. Yeah, great fired those babies out Yeah caught him in a net So this kind of sets the stage for some Perhaps an explanation of her erratic behavior. Yes, she's a woman with a lot of pressure to achieve and a lot of pressure, a lot of secrets,

and a lot of, you know, it would, it would be really bad for her. I think if this didn't work out. Yeah, this is a real kind of like safety net and a safe place for her. Other than her kids, who I'm sure she loves very much, this is the egg she has in her basket right now. Yeah, but I think to fully understand her reaction in 2007, February, there's another piece of the NASA puzzle that comes into play. In 2003, Lisa is training.

She has not been called up for a mission, but at this time there was a mission occurring Columbia. I didn't know until I started researching more, but Columbia was a shuttle that disintegrated and burned up in the atmosphere on its way back to Earth. There was a piece of foam that fell off in a certain way and affected the heat shield. Yes. Oh. Essentially. affected the heat shield? Yes. Oh. Essentially.

We want that heat shield to work. Because there's a lot of heat being created when you're blasting through the Earth's atmosphere. Oh, how scary. Oh, that's, see, that's another thing that's quite scary about space is that if someone didn't screw in the thing right, lights out in the most violent and explosive way possible, right? Yeah, yeah. No, totally. It was a considered a very routine mission. They were going up to the International Space Station, staying like less than two weeks and coming back down. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, scary. Upon re-entry, that incredible heat disintegrated the shuttle to the point where the astronauts inside

Knew what was happening. They they surmised that in probably the last minute or so They understood that this they were not going to make it into the atmosphere without Faintly affected So no good. No good. You hate to hear it. It really, really shakes NASA. It really, really shakes this astronaut class because you know, we're talking about like Lisa and her cohort essentially. These are folks that she trained with and has been training with for the last seven years and has known and has considered good friends. In fact, a classmate of hers named Laurel Clark was on the Columbia mission and died.

That'll do things to you psychologically. Totally. And I think for the entire NASA community, it kind of did a one over because it was this very small routine thing that happened. Yeah. The missions were happening, people were going up, they were coming back, people were having babies, people were living their lives, and then all of a sudden, like, these people disappear. There's a lot of unrest on site. There's one reported suicide out of

mission control. Like people are really really really shook by what this is. No doubt. Understandably so. Understandably so. Our girl Lisa, not only is she obviously really negatively affected by this because it was you know that could have been her for one thing, or it could be the next mission that she's on. Like, what does this mean for her career? Are they gonna close the missions down? Also, Laurel Clark, a very good friend of hers.

So on top of all of that turmoil, there's also, this is kind of based off of a military framework as well, there's a casualty assistance officer that somebody gets to volunteer as and that person helps the affected family. So the family of the deceased move through the grieving, not necessarily grieving process in terms of like counseling, but it's through the process of like the media going through all the paperwork, being there for

the family, making cast roles. Like it's just kind of like a point person from within the system who knows how it could feel like they have all the information that the family has and needs. No, I like that. And I also feel like a way for the person who is in that role to, you know, feel useful in a time of institutional grief. Totally. It probably gives other people within the organization an outlet for that grief through that person. Yeah.

I don't know. That's interesting. Jonathan Clark, who's Laurel's husband, and I quote him saying she and he's referring to Lisa when she was assigned as their casualty assistance officer quote she did everything she went through everything that Navy paperwork finances bills bank accounts she took care of Ian who is Laurel and Jonathan's son during the months afterward she saw what it was like to lose one of her best friends and for Ian to lose a mother.

And the thing is, while Lisa is doing this, she's not at home with her own kids. She has two very young kids at this time, but she is here 12 to 14 hours a day under the most difficult circumstances. I have to think it was hugely stressful. Oh, she important. You know what? And then you leave the diapers in your car one time. You know, that's what and that's what they remember you for. It's so it's it's it's that bittersweet

infamy man. It's so fucking it's fucked. It's terrible. It's it's it's intense. It's intense. And it's also because I was wondering about this like casualty assistance officer is like, why in the world would you not hire counselors to do that? Professional licensed counselors. Professional license and all of that. Yeah. And I think there's something about it being somebody who could be in that position.

But They have the personal connection to it. But as you say, there's also this culture at NASA where therapy and counseling of really any type is just not embraced. Is it certainly not embraced? Stupid. Stupid. Here's like the stupidity of it all. According to Patricia Santy, a psychiatrist and a former NASA flight surgeon, she says the whole pilot mentality is to hide these things because generally speaking, you can't benefit from a medical condition. A visit to the

doctor for an annual physical is fraught with all sorts of potential problems. You could get discharged if you're not careful. Yeah, or not picked for a mission. Yeah. Because you have a panic disorder and they're like, well, now we think that blah, blah. That actually makes a lot of sense. Oh, that's, oh, what a, oh, God. Yeah, Patricia Santy goes on, she said a visit to the doctor for an annual physical is fraught with all sorts of potential problems.

Now multiply that anxiety times 10 and talking to a psychologist or psychiatrist because here's something that there's no objective measurement for. You can't run the marathon to get out of this. There's not even a lab test they can show you. It's just some guy's word that you are acting strangely. End of quote.

Of course, dude, you do such a good job, I think, presenting the myriad reasons why this woman seems to have, because like, who among us? I would. I would. I'd already have had the diaper on by this point. Fuck it. I make boom boom and dipey now. I'm going crazy. What is this shit? No therapy. I don't even get fucking therapy. I'm shitting myself, but it lights out. Yeah.

It's over. It's no, I totally agree. Like I would not have made it this far at all. You never. You're very organized and very capable, but I've never seen you want anything the amount that one needs to want this. Diaper wanted. Yeah. Yeah. And that's not a knock. I like your way of living a little better. Right? Yeah. So despite all of this intense pressure, the secrecy, the family life,

the like bout of being a single mom with twins and a kid, I like her friend dying at this job that she's given her life for. Yeah. Evaporating the way that she could if she achieves her dream. There's another anxiety. Yes, yes. Despite all of this, July 2006, she flies on the space shuttle Discovery.

Scary. STS-121. And this mission goes up for about 10 days to the International Space Station. Okay, so we did make it to space. She makes it to space. Good woman. She does make it to space. She and you'll love to know this. Her responsibilities sent her around the robotic arm that is on

the International Space Station, which is featured on, I forget, which Canadian dollar? It's the Canada arm. You didn't refer to it by its Christian name. It's the Canadarm. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I was going to let you have the arm.

We're very proud of the Canadarm up here. As you should be. We're very proud. We're very proud. Is it the Canadarm or the Canadarm? It's the Canadarm. I believe it's the the Canada. I think it's the Canada arm. I think it is a line. Which is, which I love that. I think that's such a funny thing. That's funny. Nor is it could be funny sometimes, dude. Apparently it weighs, it weighs so much that it doesn't work on Earth.

Like gravity. Oh, what a big arm we made. We're so proud of our big boy. They have the arm. Nobody can lift it, can lift everybody. Nobody can lift it. Such a strong, so skook'em arm. Healthy arm. A skook'em healthy arm. That's true. Lisa has successfully accomplished her dream. She is a mother of three. She might not be in happy marriage, but she's married. But, but god damn it, there's technically a ring on my finger, okay? She's in love.

We'll have all this like that. She's in love with Bill. She surely is. And she has made it to space. Like when she was a little girl looking up at the stars, that's all she ever wanted. And now she's finally there. She's young. She's like in her early 40s and she has achieved her dream that she has.

She needs to come up with a new dream. She nailed it. She nailed the first one. She's got to come up with the second one. And the second one might be like this great new man that she knows. Right. Yes. Yes.

So, it's around this time that she sends that lovely letter to Bill's mother, what she hopes to probably be her like future mother-in-law. Yeah. Just call her mom. Just call her mom. Just call me mom. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, okay, okay. So I think you're right. I think the mission of getting to space is like, oh, I accomplished that, like, what's next? But in January of 2007, Bill and her get together, and he says, I found someone else. Bill, no.

And... Don't say it, say it ain't so. I'm ready to make that exclusive, and I think we need to go ahead and end this. And we both agreed that we were going to be adult about this. Yes, yeah. And according to Bill, she takes the news well. They decide that they'll still remain in contact. They've been training for a big bicycle race together, so they continue to train. They talk daily. My heart breaks for her, truly. That sucks.

Yeah, it really does, especially because the woman that Bill has found is about 10 years younger than Lisa. She is in the Navy as well. She lives in Cape Canaveral. She works, she doesn't work for NASA, but she works- Oh my God, it's younger, Lisa. That's what got Betty Broderick too. That's what got Betty Broderick too. That's what got Betty Broderick too.

It's getting replaced with a younger copy of you that fucks you up. That makes, that will make you snap. That will make you snap. Yeah. And apparently like Colleen knew about Lisa and had told Bill like, I don't want to be involved with you if this is still going on. Fair enough. But she also said, like, are you sure that she's okay with it?

And he's a dumb fuck guy. He was like, yeah, she took it great. All clear. Yeah. That was easier than I thought. Fucking men, fucking men. Sorry. Thank you.

Thank you. Terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible. She's fine with it. She loves it. She was really supportive. She was. Thank you. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible.

Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible.

Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Well, I can't imagine that he doesn't have some type of regrets in this era of his life. A little bit of concern. A little bit of concern.

So Colleen lives in Florida. She lives at Cape Canaveral. Her work is, she doesn't work for NASA, but she works for the Navy in terms of she does flights stuff with NASA. So they're having this long distance relationship. And February 1st to the 3rd, she has bought a ticket to go to Houston and stay with Bill in his Clear Lake apartment. She gets there and sees that Lisa's bike is still there. And Bill is like, oh yeah, we're training together. It's fine. It's no big

deal. And Colleen is like, no, actually, that doesn't make me feel very comfortable. I would appreciate it if- Oh, for Colleen too. You could move that. She has no idea what this is about to turn into. Oh, this is sad. At this point too, Bill is living in this apartment because he's gotten separated and divorced proceedings

from his ex-wife. And he has given Lisa key. This was before they broke up. You don't want to get that back. You want to get that back, yeah, yeah. At a certain point, Lisa has not broken in. She has a key. She has-

Well, well, now these are semantics. She has gone onto his computer and found Colleen's flight schedule. Lisa. She has also found some kind of steamy emails. Steamails, she found the steamails. Steamails. Shit. That had been exchanged between Bill and Colleen.

An email from Bill to Colleen has the subject line that reads, I need a rub down. The message itself reads, will have to control myself when I see you. First urge will be to rip your clothes off, throw you on the ground, and love the hell out of you. Aw. That's, that's, I mean. You were ready for some like throbbing dick, weren't you? That's like got like a radio edit on it, you know? That's, that's, I mean. You were ready for some like throbbing dick, weren't you?

That's like got like a radio edit on it, you know? That's, that's fun. I should say that that email, Bill did have a mission in space and he flew up and a space shuttle was on the ISS and this message was sent from space. Bollard move, big flex, big flex. You're sending me, if you're sending me dirty messages from the ISS. Oh fuck, bend me over, yeah. It makes that. You're sending me dirty messages from the ISX. Oh fuck, bend me over, yeah.

Back on Earth emails that he sent to Colleen read, I need to see you. I'm having Colleen withdrawals. Must see Colleen. She responds, lots of love coming your way and kisses and a big giant hug with my legs around you. This is these two, you know. It's so chaste. I love it. I'm loving it. I was really expecting.

When you got the, when you had these texts, pull it up, I was like, this is fairly lascivious, Josie. Are you Perez Hilton now? I know. But these are, these are, this is a squeaky clean vanilla romance where I'm all about it. I support it. Yeah. Yeah.

She is not coupled up with anybody. She's just looking for a partner and has found Bill and really likes him and obviously he likes her and you know. Yeah. Yeah, they're trying to make a go of it. But our girl Lisa. But you know, she remains in the equation and I don't think she's going to be told no so easily. No. So she's broken into his apartment, found the flight information, seen these emails, which I've just, I would imagine they've just

incinerated her sense of self and logic. Because the idea of driving from Houston to Orlando it's like 900 miles. That's very far. It's very far. Not fun miles either. We're not we're not driving coast Lolli here are we? Yeah, no. And part of me is like why wouldn't you just get on an airplane?

No, no, no, no. You have to access trans-state. No, this is a whole, this is ritualistic. This is ritualistic. This is... Okay. There's a catharsis of it. It becomes... If not a catharsis, then like a narrowing of the world into the tiniest possible point, right? That you can focus, focus. Because

this is a lady who we know is very focused. Extremely focused, yeah. Sitting in a fucking airplane seat and mulling and someone next to you is coughing and the flight attendant is asking if you want stoop waffle, which I didn't know what that was until she fucking asked. Oh, they're great. Yeah, you put them on your cup of tea, your coffee, and it kind of melts the caramel. No, none of that shit. That's for soft boys.

Strap on a dyke and get behind the wheel. And drive until the sun goes up and down and up. Dude, print out those emails that you read. Have those ready with you. Don't print out the email. This is... you don't need to do this, Lisa. There's... you can stop right here. Yeah. You can stop right here and none of this will ever happen. Well, nope. She keeps going because she prints out the way to get to Colleen's house.

Oh, no, the map quest. She prints out a layout of the Orlando International Airport, the map quest. Oh, no. Indeed, indeed. Yeah, she has printed out all this information. She has also packed herself a duffel bag that contains a pair of latex gloves, the black wig, the hooded trench coat that we saw,

a BB pistol with ammunition. So not a real gun, but a fake gun that looks real. You can hurt someone with it. Yes, you could. The pepper spray, a hammer, it's called a drilling hammer. That sound, I don't like the sound of that. That sounds bad. An eight inch folding knife, like a big old hunting knife.

You're not gonna do anything nice with that. At best you can say, oh, I'm gonna cut rope with it, but like, why do you need to cut rope? Who's tied up? Maybe because she brought six feet of rubber, like tubing. Well, that's the, nothing good gonna come of that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We opened up the wig store next to the tubing store and we didn't think it would be a customer

synergy. But you know, Mr. Terry tubing comes out, he sees me one day, he says, what's this in your window about a specialized as well, we saw the wig and the trench coat. If you buy them both, we put in a pair of sunglasses for free. And he says, you know, I see your customers coming over to my store and they buy all their tubing and we were expanding into latex gloves too. All of it. So it's been a real boom, a real boom era.

One stop shopping. One stop shopping in the strip mall next to the NASA actually is where we're opening. Oh yeah. And these items are obviously incriminating. As hell. As hell. You can come up with an explanation that is technically innocent, but it won't be a good one and no one will believe you. Having the diapers just like in the car is like, okay, like I get it. Like that happens. I totally get it.

But the 8-inch hunting knife, the BB gun, the pepper spray. Yeah, you're trying to kill something. Or incapacitate and wound something at the very least. Yes, yes, yes, or scare. What the fuck is she trying to do to this poor girl, I wonder? Well, I suppose you're about to tell me, aren't you? Like we mentioned, she drives through the night. She does stop at a hotel and spends a few hours.

And probably shits in their toilet. All of you fucking blogged, okay? Yeah, yeah. She gets to the Orlando airport and she checks into like an airport hotel there. And she drops her stuff and tells the hotel attendant, like, I'm so tired, I'm going to bed. Good night, da, da, da.

That's when she dons her wig and her tan hooded trench coat. And she comes hooded trench coat and her duffel bag. Grab a shuttle to the airport and waits for Colleen. Like I mentioned, Colleen's bags aren't there, so even though she lands at 105, she isn't in the satellite parking shuttle until 315. And that's where the altercation happens. Pepper spray, you know. Our window, all of it.

All of it, all of it. Trust your guts, folks. If someone sounds, is weird and you out, like it's okay to like pull out, didn't drive away. No, no, it's not in polite to say, no, please go away. Not to say, not to put anything on this poor young lady because she couldn't have fucking, she couldn't have fucking known this as well

was coming her way. She did do, right? Yeah, she did, she did. have fucking, she couldn't have fucking known this as well as coming her way. She did do, right? Yeah, she did. You know, like- She didn't do anything wrong here. She could have opened that car door or let her in or done all these things and it could have been much worse. The Orlando Police Department Airport Division, they arrive within minutes because they're

Airport Division, they division there already and they observe Lisa trying to throw away this duffel bag into a trash can in the parking area. Sloppy, sloppy. Again, what is it? What is it that such an accomplished woman who can do anything she sets her mind to can't come up with a better plan than this? You know? That's how you know she snapped. Because she's came in with the party city wig and she had no you don't what are you gonna put in the you know where they're gonna look the first garbage can they see just like you did yeah no exactly so they arrest her because it's obviously like Colleen can identify her they arrest her on charges of attempted kidnapping battery

attempted vehicle burglary with battery, and destruction of evidence. During the evidence way, yeah. So these are some pretty gnarly and intense charges. And appropriate charges. That sounds like exactly what happened, honestly. Let's be clear. That sounds pretty duet-y.

I bet you could probably find a couple more to chuck in there if you were real diligent. And this makes Lisa Noak the first, not only the first astronaut to be arrested, but the first to be charged with felonies. Oh, felonies, what are you? Freak out for glass ceiling. Fuck yeah. Get to it, girl, yeah. Don't, but stop, but don't, that wasn't right. You did, to be clear, we don't support this.

We have to be careful about the message we send. Young children listen to this. Don't listen to this, young children. This is not for you. It should be noted too that Colleen knew what Lisa looked like because she had seen a photo that Bill had showed her, but she didn't know that it was her immediately. Because she's dressed like a fucking Carmen San Diego villain. But when it's determined that like, no this is Lisa Noah, Colleen says somebody, and I

assume it is her, has been following me for the last two months. I have like, noticed things happening and da da da. Lisa don't, Lisa now. You're still our girl Lisa, but you're, this is flagrant behavior now. So after they arrest Colleen does make a request for restraining order because she's just like, she's shaken. And rightly so. What the fuck?

I hope they, I hope they expedited that one. Your new boyfriend says, I have an ex who was like, I don't know what she might do. Then you're, you know, you're aware, but Bill was adamant, like Lisa's level-headed, like she's an astronaut. Like this is not, you know, her emotions will not get the better of her, which is a stupid phrase anyway, but, you know, so this comes out of left field a little bit. You need, but like also it sounds like not a lot of devices for emotional regulation, maybe in this lifestyle at all.

And one of them, one of the devices for emotional regulation or in this lifestyle at all. And one of them, I bet one of the devices for emotional regulation or emotional release at least is to fuck your coworkers if your marriage is going bad because you're an astronaut and you're off doing all this astronaut shit all the time. But that's not sustainable, that's not healthy. It gets revealed in some of the first interrogations they do of Lisa.

When investigators asked her what is going on, who is this Bill Ophelain and like what is your relationship, her response, she says we're more than a working relationship but less than a romantic relationship. That's sad and true. But why would she get in a car and drive 900 miles and then try to assault another woman because she Fured less because she wants because she has no outlet. I don't know more because like It's just I you know, I feel bad I feel this is a sad story and I feel like even sadder knowing that it's a bit comes infamous is the type for lady story poor type She doesn't deserve that so story. Poor diaper lady. She doesn't deserve that. So she's held in a Orlando jail on bail. Bail is set at like $25,000. She pays it. She flies

back to Houston with a GPS monitor on her ankle because she's told that she cannot enter Florida and they want to keep track her, that she's at home. Her parents fly in and they stay at the house and there's a media circus going on. It is just... This was instantly massive. Instantly massive. That's why I remember this.

This was very, very big. And imagine too, this is a little like Houston suburb cul-de-sac. They live in a clear cul-de-sac. They live in a clear like cul-de-sac. If you live there, it's because you don't want this. Exactly. And it is swarming with media. The neighbors are getting knocks on their doors so much

that they're like leaving posts on their doors and their mailboxes, like stay away. We will not give any interviews. NASA is being very tight lipped. As they will. It is a wild weekend. To say the least, I'm sure. To say the least. Until February 8th, just a few days after, Ann and Nicole Smith dies unexpectedly. I mean, you hate to see it, but I bet they were thrilled.

You hate to see it. So she is, Ann and Nicole Smith is like a Houston celebrity or was. She was Houston. I didn't know she was a Houston girl. She worked at a strip club just off the 45. She's her own episode, dude. Talk about bittersweet romance, huh? I'm mad now that I didn't think of her. So she dies unexpectedly. So all the media just kind of like zooms out of the cul-de-sac

and heads over to her home base in Houston to cover everything the VAT. So the NoACs get a little bit of a some breathing room and there's of course a few trials that come into play. Some of the beginning phases, Lisa NoAC and her legal team plead insanity. Oh. Which I think is kind of interesting. Interesting. Yeah. That, I think it's kind of interesting. Yeah. Interesting. That I

don't know. I feel like that would be a tough sell with someone this capable seeming. You know what I mean? Not to say that it's untrue or like I'm not I'm not saying that people who are seemingly very, very capable can also succumb to like severe lapses in judgment and mental health and all of that, but I wonder how that would play. It's not until 2009 that No Ag agrees to a plea deal and she pleads guilty to charges of felony burglary of a car and misdemeanor battery. So the other like attempted murder, kidnapping, those things are finally dropped.

Okay. And she has to spend two days in a Florida jail and do a year of community service. Scarry straight. NASA terminates her contract. She is no longer within the astronaut class. Yup. Because I think I mentioned this earlier,

she's under the umbrella of NASA, but she's also under the umbrella of the Navy. So when NASA terminates her, they essentially just say like, you're fired, we don't have any disciplinary action against you, because we're just gonna like roll you over to the Navy and they'll take care of that. She has to go through more legal proceedings in the Navy. The Naval Board of Inquiry, which is like the legal body, I suppose, they reduce her in rank to a commander. She was a general, now she's a commander. And then they discharge her from the Navy under what's called other than honorable conditions.

Right. So it's not a dishonorable discharge. But it's not an honorable discharge. You's just a discharge. You know what? You think what you will. Yes. Read between the lines discharge. Yeah, go read all the diaper tabloids. I was just about to say, usually she prefers her discharge into a diaper. No. Boom. He's still got it. He's still got it. New diaper jokes even this far into this saga. How does he do it? I feel so bad for her too that this is... I do, I do, I do, I do because of edgy mokes like me making diaper jokes. She didn't deserve that, but

she did make somebody. I keep coming back to that. Proceed. As of 2017, it's reported that she's working in the private sector and still in Texas. She still lives here. I would imagine that finding a job was was very hard because infamy. Infamy baby that'll do it to you. Bill Ophelain as you'll remember he also was part of an extramarital affair and so he also had to appear before the Naval legal entities. Does it matter at all that they were separated? No, I think if there's any proof of extramarital affair, then it's grounds for dismissal.

Wow, okay. Yeah. So he is also dismissed from NASA and reduced in rank. I think it's kind of a similar situation. He's reduced in rank after all of this. NASA creates its first astronaut code of conduct. Good idea. Good idea.

Good idea. You know what these people need? More pressure to behave a certain way. Well, I think included in their response to Lisa Noack's story to what happened. NASA has implemented more psychological testing. Good. And yes, yes, there's not a way that astronauts can shy away from that as much.

But are we talking like psychological conditioning under the pretense of like catching the crazies before they snap? Or are we talking about like ongoing mental health supports and a holistic acknowledgement that like even very high performing individuals and often especially very high performing individuals need regular therapy. Let's hope for the latter. Holistic. We're going, NASA's going, holistic and organic in 2024. I can feel it in my waters. Funnily enough, I guess it's not funny. It's a beautiful love story. It's bittersweet romance, baby.

Bill Olifan and Colleen Shipman continue their relationship. They eventually get married. She leaves the military like he did. They move to Alaska. The dream. They have a kid. Bill becomes a like sport photographer.

Sure. And she becomes a novelist. Oh. She does cute murder mysteries. I love it. I love what a great, what a great filmic ending. And they all live happily ever after. Well, I mean, that's when you see like Lisa kind of pop up. It's like, you know. True. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, as they're like settled into their beautiful, Alaskan fire at home. But what of Lisa?

She as of now has not remarried. Fair enough. Yeah, she has kept out of the public eye and has done a very good job of it. I get it. Did you ever see that movie Lucy in the Sky with Natalie Portman? No. 2019. Okay.

So it's Natalie Portman playing Lisa Noak. Oh, this get by me. Interesting. It's not exactly the story because it is set in like a different time. It's set in like the 60s, the kind of like heyday of Houston. That story is about how like she goes into space and like it changes her brain chemistry kind of thing, which I don't think is Lisa's story. Lisa's story is- That doesn't sound like a good movie. I haven't seen it so I don't know.

Okay, I'm gonna- well, film close baby, film close. Yeah, yeah, t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t an employee and it seems like she might be doing just fine hopefully. She's 60 years old. Good for her. Is there a moral? The moral of the story, that's what we need to do. The moral of the story. I would say that the moral of the story is that no one can fill the whole... it's because the diaper really complicates this whole metaphor and I'm not, I really don't like it so I'm gonna try to switch. It's basically just like, I think that like there's an important message here about self esteem even if I can't quite articulate it. Be enough to yourself. There's no one worth, first of all don't, if you're gonna kill anyone don't kill her, kill him. She didn't fuck you over, he did. And even if you kill her

he's not gonna suddenly get back with you. You know that. Deep down I think. Yeah. Yeah. Second, but like don't kill him either. Don't kill anybody. Just take up Tai Chi, take up pottery, spend some time with your kids. Yeah. Live in the moment. Live in the moment and like maybe when it comes to the astronaut stuff, take a gap year, go to Ibiza, you know, like, shake it up. It's like, you need, you need work and you need work and also play. Pressure makes diamonds, but it can also crumble you to dust. Perhaps is the world here. I got there in the end. The world's not so bad. It's not so scary.

It's not so scary. I liked that. Yeah. Yeah. Steer clear of that diaper. Yeah, that was great. That's a fun, that's a fine. Thanks for listening. If you want more infamy, we've got plenty more episodes

at bittersweetinfamy.com. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you want to support the podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you want to support the podcast, shoot us a few bucks via our coffee account. K-O-F-I-dot-com forward slash bittersweet-theme. But no pressure. Bittersweet-theme is free, baby. You can always support us by liking, rating, subscribing, leaving a review, following us on Instagram at bittersweet-theme, or just pass the podcast along to a friend who you think would dig it. Stay sweet!

The sources that I used for this episode's Minfamous included music, white lies and the white stripes, and time by Benjamin Nugent, June 16th, 2001. Megan Jack White, Talk Relationship Issues, and Spin by Chuck Klossman, October 2002. White Lie, question mark in NME, August 22nd, 2001. The Mysterious Case of the White Stripes by David Frick for Rolling Stones, September 8th, 2005. And I think about this a lot. Jack and Meg White pretending to be brother and sister by

Shanaid Stebbins for the cut March 16, 2020. The sources that I used for this episode include a YouTube video from True Crime Recaps called The Bizarre Story of Lisa Novak published July 7, 2022. I watched the trailer for Lucy in the Sky, the film starring Natalie Portman, directed by Noah Haley, came out 2019. I read an article in Independent Woman's Forum, was Lisa Noack, just her average overworked mom, written by Charlotte Hayes, published February 9th, 2007.

I read an article in the Houston Chronicle, Astronauts Todry Tabloid Tale has lasting impact, written by Mike Tolson, published February 11th, 2007. I also read an article in Texas Monthly entitled Lust in Space, written by S.C. Gwynn, published May 2007. I took a look at author C. M. McCoy's North of Normal blog and that is the blog written and maintained by Colleen Shipman now Colleen Othling. Fitter Sweet Infamy is a member of the 604 podcast network. A

special shout out to our monthly subscribers, Jonathan Mountain and Erica Jo Brown. Thank you for all you do. If you'd be interested in becoming a monthly subscriber and accessing some exclusive benefits, go to coffee.com slash bittersweetinthamy. That's K-O-F-I dot com slash bittersweetinthamy. The interstitial music you heard earlier was written by Mitchell Collins. And the song you're listening to now is Tea Street by Brian Steele. Because it's...

Romance bittersweet Romance Can I tell you something? Because it's Roman, it's been a sweet Roman. Can I tell you something? Okay, perfect. Go on. Can I tell you something? Oh, no. No, she's not done. Love you, baby.