Bittersweet Infamy - #93 - The Tree Huggers

Episode Date: February 18, 2024

Bittersweet Romance - Candy Hearts edition! Inspired by the randomly chosen candy heart "HUG ME," Josie tells Taylor about the Chipko movement of 1970s Northern India, where villagers hugged trees to save the endangered Himalayan forests. Plus: learn about the infamous reality TV show, "Who Wants to Marry a Multi-Millionaire?" Are you sure "I do" is your final answer? 

Welcome to Bitter Sweden. I'm Taylor Basso. And I'm Josie Mitchell. On this podcast, we share the stories that live on and in the feed. The strange and the familiar. The tragic and the comic. The bitter. And the sweet. It is the third episode of Bitter Sweet Romance, our month-long February tribute to love. And I gotta tell you, I'm starting to feel that grind, but I'm pushing through. The grind of love? Is that it? That bitter grind of... Getting that little dose of bit.

It's when you have those chocolates, all of those delicious heart-shaped chocolates. Yeah. You get hyper, you have that crash. Yeah. That's where I'm at. I'm on that crash. My tummy is starting to gurgle. Yeah.

These are those like kind of boozy chocolates, so it's all a little like... Oh. You know? Right, right, right, right, yeah. I haven't had enough booze to feel drunk, but I've had like, you know, when you have like a thimble full of amaretto and a thimble full of drambuey and whatever you're tummy eating, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, great show for you tonight. Oh god I'm so sorry I didn't know it was that bad. Describe your perfect date and not in the fucking um miscigeniality sense before you fucking do it. April 25th. Yes. Not too hot, not too cold. It's February, but describe for me your perfect date in the romantic sense. Well, I mean, perfect implies one, and I think there are many a different date, because there's like an evening date, a day date, a morning date, like maybe like an evening date, because that's perhaps more traditional.

Give us an evening date. Yes's perhaps an evening day additional. Yes Very traditional girl as we know it's true. She only wears pink Yeah, it's a podcast y'all don't know that I only wear pink really bizarre personal trait that we've all agreed to endure because we love her well my perfect date I'm wearing pink and I Think a nice dinner out can do a lot. I, yeah, like a good long dinner. I really like like getting the appetizers, having a like bottle of wine. Like course wine, course two.

An extended conversation over a meal. What's, give us a, put us in a particular restaurant here. Are we talking like Italian or are we talking like? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, Italian is good. That's a good one. That's a very good one. Just cause that's like,

muy clásico, romantico. As they say in Italy, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can do the lady in the tramp with a strand of spaghetti too. So it's an exciting proposition. It's true. But I think any restaurant that's got like, I guess kind of bougie food,

I think that's always fun to go on a date and be like, oh, we're gonna have like a dollop of caviar and our sour cream. Cron mousse! Yeah! Okay, okay, I got you, I got you. There's a good like a oyster bar that I think is a makes for a good date place oysters. Okay. After DGX you know.

But okay, I don't I don't care for oysters. I'm not gonna sit here and act like I do but. I have the feeling that you uh yeah no uh not not the raw gullet sliders or oyster. Oh gullet sliders that's what it is too. It's like how many gullet sliders do you need to have in one night too? Because if this is a successful date, right? Maybe a few more Gullet sliders to go around. At least it doesn't.

At least. At least. But then, okay, so a nice dinner that's kind of like long and you lose track of time. Yeah, I think, and then like a walk afterwards. I've always liked that, like an extended city walk. Yeah, what's your perfect date? I like a park date, I think. I'm fond of a park date in some form,

because parks are nice. You find a nice park. Yeah, a walk is classic. I like a game. I'm fond of a game. A game probably shouldn't be the only thing that you do, because a game, you get a specific side of someone in a game versus like, you know, like you say,

a conversation. But yeah, I'm fond of a game, and I'm fond of a meeting in a park. Not one of these fumbly-bumbly meetings in the park mind. Right. Hands above the waist. Yeah. No, you host a good park date. We've been on a park date and it's lovely.

Oh, here you go. Get the virginity blanket out. Yeah, you're exactly right. Get the mind the gap, mind this big riff in the middle of it. I've just put my bag on that and you're good to go. Yeah, yeah. Some sushi. Yeah, some sushi, a little avocado roll. That's a pretty good time, I would say. I have an infamous for you if you want one. Yeah!

During the time that you and Mitchell were getting married, did you ever think about whether you wanted your wedding to be televised? As in like on a reality TV or like hiring a videographer and filming it that way. First one. The thought did not cross my mind because no, I would not want that. No. Okay, well then I suspect I already know your answer to my second question,

but I'm going to ask it anyway. OK. Would you ever get married to a complete stranger? Never say never. OK. So you're open. You're open to an unconventional arranged marriage, let's say.

At this time in my life, already married, I think it's illegal, so I can't. But, like. You can move to Utah. OK. You never know. So. I think that works.

OK. I'm 100% sure that's not how it works. Like, please, Utah Law Scholars, like, don't at me. I mean, these are jokes. This is comedy. I'm not a lawyer yet. You never know what life throws at you. I might be in a situation where that might be my entertainment and I'd be ready and willing. Yeah.

Well, funny you should say entertainment. I'm going to be telling you the story of one of the earliest and most controversial reality shows. It was specifically directly meant to be a parody of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, and it may seem odd to think of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire as a reality show when it's so firmly a game show, but I also think that what our idea of game shows is now is like really influenced by the, well you think of like the kind of conventional like swooping lights, dark auditorium after this commercial break drama. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was sort of ushered in by Who Wants to be a Millionaire and it's sort of very firmly

has a toe in reality TV that way. It looks and feels a lot more like something like American Idol than it does something like The Price is Right, right? Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. It makes sense that one of the earliest reality game show type programs would be a response to Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? And specifically at the time, Mike Darnell, he's the head of unscripted programming at Fox. And I have to say that Fox, I was someone who was like very tapped into the early days of reality TV, or at least the wave of it that emerged around the year 2000 with Survivor. And Fox always had a really grimy approach to reality TV. Like a really

like sleazy... That checks out, yeah. So can you believe it? Sensationalist, you know, all these things. It makes sense that they're head of unscrupulous programming. He's at a wedding, he's a guest at a wedding and he's thinking about how can I like riff on who wants to be a millionaire, that formula. And he's like, the big American dreams what are they making money and getting married how can we bring these together oh Josie have you ever heard of a show called who wants to marry a multi-millionaire I have not I have not heard of the show

this is fresh this is new I don't know can you imagine based on the name what it might be about? Love is blind kind of situation, you just marry. Yes. Okay, okay. So it's funny that you say that because as I was watching this, this is a show that has a reputation for being like, a real crass low point.

I got the sense that it was sort of them still trying to find the line of like, what is too two crafts for this model of reality television. Yeah, where yeah where where will our audiences just back away slowly? Where will they follow us? And so when I was watching that I was like what does make this different from something like love is blind, 90-day fiancee or any of these other things that are premised around like you marrying someone who you haven't really known for any amount of time. This idea of like instant marriage to someone that you don't already know. I don't know that we really see much that there's like a couple of other shows that kind of tread that line like they do and call married

at first sight years later that kind of goes nowhere but this is kind of like an extreme moment I think and like the idea the way they hype it at the beginning of this thing is like, it's the beauty pageant that ends in illegal marriage. Right, yeah. And it's very knowingly kind of sleazy and it got really good ratings. It got something like 16 million viewers by, it didn't really endear anybody. Yeah, because there's some crassness built in because there's money in the title,

like marriage and finances. I mean, marriage is kind of a financial institution in a lot of different ways. But the polite thing is not to mention that or think about that or to have that vocally at front of mind. Right. So to tell you a little bit about just the artifact itself of the show, this was lost media until pretty recently until about three months ago. It has now been posted on a YouTube account called Rivers Cuomo Funko Pop.

Oh, wow. So thank you for that. Layers. RCFV. I didn't mention it for no reason. Yeah. Just a good little character detail, right? So you can watch it on there and I have, it's very funny the way they've set it up. They've got this guy, J. Thomas is the host, and he's like, I would describe him as competent

but rapy, you know, is the vibe. Yeah, okay. Like, he's got a little in you, he's got a sleazy little innuendo going back to his hotel room for anything anybody says, but they're quick, they're good. They're good sleazy little innuendos, but they are sleazy innuendos and they are frequent. Yes, yes. And then they've got like a former Miss America doing the backstage interview and it's legitimately a beauty pageant. It's uh here's 50 women. They introduce themselves all which it feels like 50 women introduce

themselves in a row and then they come down to like compatibility quiz swimsuit competition. So is wait I guess I'm gonna hit pause real quick here. Is there absolutely no explanation that like this is the season where women will be marrying a multi-millionaire Man, is it just implied that the women will be lining up to marry the man who has all the money? Yes, and this isn't a season. This is like a 90-minute special like you Oh, you got you've got 90 minutes between when you hit the stage for this weird pageant And when you're conceivably getting married to somebody you've never met. And it is a real marriage. But yeah, it's like a pageant. So it's like 50 people, they all come out there 19 to 43, which ooh, 19. There's well, oh baby. And they've selected this guy, this millionaire from a group of

100 millionaires and we only ever see him from the back. We never see anything about him. Oh my gosh. We never hear his name. Whoa. So he's the sort of like mysterious figure hovering over this entire thing. And implicitly like they don't know anything about him except that he is loaded. So the show invites you to make a moral judgment of them because the only reason they can be in this is for the money conceivably.

Right. Then he doesn't know anything really about these women other than how they present here today and what they look like in a swimsuit and how they answered the like the little misogynist compatibility questions that his friends and family... What's your favorite date? They're worse than that. They're like, um, if your husband's friend flirted with you, would you A, tell him, B, da-da- da, C, da, da, da? And then they chuck it over to his friends and family to grade the answers out of 10. So it's all multiple choice? Like who wants to be a millionaire?

Yeah, it's multiple choice, but there's like a D is usually none of the above and like nobody picks none of the above because like fucking hell you want to get stuck like explaining your non-standard answer to this like this this host just wants you to say something about your tits and let's speed the plow we've only got 90 minutes on the clock here. Oh my god okay. Whoa. Fox. The banter is very typical of its time we get a lot of like George Bush is going to lose the republican nomination jokes we get uh is that your final answer jokes. Yeah. And so then in the end, we go through the whole rigmarole of this beauty pageant, and we reveal that the man himself, the multimillion himself, is a guy named Rick Rockwell.

He is a stand-up comedian and real estate developer who owns Pride of Golf, of course. It's not nice. Sorry. You are dumb. You asked my opinion, didn't you? I don't recall. I recall asking who wants to marry a multi-millionaire. I recall asking that.

Oh dear. Well, then you won't like what I'm about to share with you. I thought that maybe this would be the pot. He splits his time between San Diego and Vancouver. That's between the pot. It does. Yeah, you got it. Very convenient.

Very convenient. So Rick, by the time he emerges, he is able based on all the answers. And by now, the final five have been chosen, and they're all standing there in their wedding gowns that they've picked. Like, this whole thing's a big commercial for diamonds in wedding dresses.

And like, let's hang around with Wayne Newton in Las Vegas kind of thing. OK. And he ends up picking contestant number 13. Lucky 13. Lucky. Well, I don't know if she's about to feel that way. Even though she is about to win a three carat diamond ring worth

thirty five thousand dollars and an Asusia trooper, she is now also on the hook to Mary Rick Rockwell. Her name is Darva Clunger. Good name. She's an emergency room nurse from Santa Monica, California. She's a veteran. Cool. And she is shitting her pants terrified from the moment she's chosen. It is... Oh no. Her regret about the whole escapade and

terror about what's to come is immediately evident. Is it the kind of terror where she was like, I just thought it'd be fun to be on reality TV because it's the early 2000s and like, let's live our lives and I didn't actually want to be involved in any of this. I thought that this would just gonna be 30 minutes of my life and now it's gonna be my entire life. Oh my God, I'm terrified. So that's what she'd bat, yep, that is same.

And hit the interstitial music roll onto the next story. You've got it exactly, right? And like, and all of that is same, and hit the interstitial music roll onto the next story, you got it exactly right? And all of that is readable in her face, and of course she will come out after the fact to be like, I did this on a lark. And she knows, she's like, I know this is like, you're gonna laugh at me and call me a hypocrite for this, and everyone thinks that I'm a gold digger and blah blah blah, but I really didn't think I was gonna get married that day.

I was just doing this for like a fucking gag. And it went really far. And then when the moment came, I was too scared in the moment to say no and like ruin the show kind of thing. I signed a lot of papers and I don't know what they do to me if I said no and yeah, no, totally. And a Suzy Trooper, I met Wayne Newton.

I can't lie to Wayne Newton. He has all these things come into play. She should have dropped out of being the finalist. She should have said before they announced it. Yeah, I'm so sorry, my mother's on her deathbed. Bye! Well, what happens instead is this, Rick and Darva get married, he kisses her, which she kind of turns away from, and she'll kind of not be pleased with later on in the telling.

He kisses her, like the groom, be pleased with later on in the telling. Like she he kisses her like the groom kiss the bride. I don't know if it's like at someone's prompting. I don't remember but I just remember she kind of grimaces and I think he gets like just left of lip. You know what I mean? The gentlemanly thing to do would have been to kiss her cheek. The gentlemanly thing to do would not be to marry her in front of this like howling married with children audience in a fucking auditorium But here we are right? Yeah, I guess what in Rome what in Vegas? Yeah, where are the lines?

Then we get what I consider the best music cue in TV history They have their first dance to I knew I loved you before I met you by savage cardin It's so good I knew I loved you before I met you. I knew I dreamed you into life. Dance over the end credits. Add for a tasteless John Benet Ramsey fictionalized TV movie.

Oh god. Yeah. Sack of all. And so that was Who Wants to Marry a Multimillionaire, as you might imagine. It did both big ratings and big controversy, especially after it came out that Rick Rockwell had a restraining order against him from a previous girlfriend who accused him of domestic abuse. Oh no. That I guess Fox's vetting hadn't caught. They also found out that they, we, society, found out that this gentleman may not be a

multi-millionaire as claimed. Okay. Okay. Also found out that he may not even be a comedian of note. So Josie, maybe your instinct was right there. Oh no, this man was like an aspiring comedian perhaps. Although he would say it differently. Yeah, yeah, sounds worse. As for the marriage itself, apparently the honeymoon in Barbados was a separate cabin's no touching situation. Darva,

apparently the moment she could softly... Vomited all over him. Broke it off with him. Well, she cried a lot. She said, she took a deep breath and she took him aside. She said, listen, I don't have these feelings for you. Yeah. Later quotes, I committed an error in judgment. I'm not married to him. In my heart, I'm not married to him. I never ever considered having a sexual relationship

with him just as I would not consider having a sexual relationship with anybody, anyone I just met. I've worked my whole life to be a credible person, a person of integrity, unfortunately in two hours I destroyed much of that credibility. Oh, D'orva, don't say that. She ends up on Good Morning America and kind of gets chewed out by Matt Lauer

and he's like, well, I'm never gonna see you again, am I? And she is trying to be very stiff upper lip and she's like, well, I hope if you do it's cause I do something good and Matt Lauer's like, well, I hope if you do it's cause I like do something good. And Matt Lauer's like, then I won't see you. Matt Lauer's calling that shot on Darva. This is what I'm saying. How dare you, how dare you?

But as for Darva, she ends up auctioning off the things she won, she loses her job because of the infamy. Oh no. She does do a playboy cover and she does do celebrity boxing versus Olga Corbett. A lot of people use that as ammo that she was this sort of like fame hungry gold digger. She says, oh, well I lost my job. How was I meant to support myself? I was already infamous and might as well take these opportunities, blah, blah, blah. In February 2001, Darva and Rick appeared.

Oh, by the way, I should clarify, the relationship, I should clarify. The relationship was annulled. The marriage was annulled. They didn't really married. Yeah, that was, yeah. In February 2001, Conger and Rockwell appeared on Larry King Live. They got to kind of a fight about the comments that they'd made about each other in the media because they kind of, especially Darva kind of threw Rick under the bus, but like, I get the sense that they were just kind of like, why not point to each other, right? It's not like you can lash out at everybody who's coming down on you and it's everybody right? Oh this sounds messy. It's messy as hell. Rough. I think they're both just back to being private citizens now after the infamy wore off. Darva ended up getting married

and then divorced in what I assume is a more conventional wedding to Northern California became a nurse and nest the test in Rick Rockwell, toured the country on a comedy tour called the annulment tour and later on he was a presenter of quote aviation computer based training CD-ROM courses. And that is the quick and dirty gist on a quick and dirty show who wants to marry a multi-millionaire. Damn, dude. I'm glad I didn't do it. I said that I maybe would, but uh, hearing this cautionary tale. Because I have the same sentiment as Darv at the beginning, where he's like, this is a lark, well just try it, whatever. Life is short. And then you're just like fucking caught in this blender of a shitstorm. Okay, so Josie, with you with your passive Cali nature, I have a question. What would you do in a situation similar to the one Darva faced here where you have been chosen

and Rick Rockwell, this guy who you've just met, who you're not physically attracted to, she notes that she's not really attracted to this guy. And he brings you over and the wedding is about to start the TV wedding that we have to do in two minutes or less because we sold ad space to Crisco or whatever, right? In those two minutes, do you think you could get up the custard to shut this whole thing down on live TV? Oh, that would be-

Or would you just be like, fuck it, I'll get it in the hold? I would like in my heart of hearts, I would you just be like, fuck it, I'll get it in an ult. Hahaha. I would like in my heart of hearts, I would love to be like, this is gonna make good TV too. I don't fucking care. I'm out, you're ugly, like whatever. Yeah.

Right away bride. Yeah, yeah. You're ugly, you don't have to call him an uggo. Hahaha. That's optional, you chose that. Hahaha. I don't know, you haven't shown me a picture, I have no idea what the man looks like.

No, he looks like a guy. He looks like an A-word man. He kind of looks like Richard Nixon a bit. Oh. What would you... could you... Could you call it off in those uh, two hyped minutes? Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh god, yes, but it would suck

and I would hate it. Yes, but it would suck. Yeah. I think a younger version of me, no. I think that a version of me, well, but I also just wouldn't be in the situation that like I wouldn't sign up for the marrying a multimillionaire thing. Yeah. I don't know if I'd be on any type of reality TV. Not even the Amazing Race Canada with me, even though they won't accept Americans? That's true. About, what was it, like two weeks ago, Taylor texted me in the middle of the night. He's like, if Americans can be on Amazing Race Canada, would you do it with me? And then I was like, what's Amazing Race? I had to look it up. I watched the trailer. I immediately watched the trailer and then I looked up that Americans cannot be on Amazing

Race Canada. Well, it was a small pipe dream, but it happened. We'll make our own amazing race, Taylor. Scavenger hunt in the park. Yeah! I love a park date! Scavenger hunt in the park. I love a park date! Hey! Hey, sweethearts! Can't get enough of the BitterSweet action? Join us on coffee.com, that's ko-fi.com slash bittersweetinfamy for the Bittersweet Film Club,

our film club for monthly subscribers, where we cover movies with an infamous twist. For February, the month of Bittersweet Romance, we're going to be covering the 1970 film The Honeymoon Killers, about the real-life murders of Martha Beck and Raymond Fernandez, a pair of serial killers that found their victims through the Lonely Hearts column. This ended up being a polarizing film and their discussion got pretty lively. John Waters would have had an extended ten minute sequence of the mom sleeping there while they flocked right next to her. And there would be like fluids everywhere and there would be tits flapping. It would have been incredible, Taylor. I needed that to like get into the camp of this movie and it denied me.

Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm fucking pissed right incredible, Taylor. I needed that to get into the camp of this movie, and it denied me. I'm so sorry. I'm fucking pissed right now, Taylor. Josie, your thoughts? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Slash bittersweet of me. Stay sweet and see you at the movies. As part of our bittersweet romance block, we decided that we were going to challenge ourselves a little bit by introducing a little bit of an element of random chance and an element of bittersweet random chance to proceedings in Josie. She, on behalf of both of us, drew candy hearts, and the phrases on those candy hearts would dictate the subjects that we chose for episodes number 93 and 94. Here's a little bit of a flashback to Josie. Draw Candy Hearts for this week's

episode. Here are these candy hearts going into a beautiful pink bowl. That was a clump. That was a big lump of candy hearts. Did the plate crack? It's okay. Yeah, yeah, it's still solid. Sweet. Okay, okay, okay. Okay, I'll draw yours first. Okay. Yeah, yeah, it's still solid. Okay, okay, okay.

Okay, I'll draw yours first. Okay. This is a winter mint. Winter green one. Okay, I've got a good feeling about that. It says cutie. Cutie! I don't know what this one tastes like.

It authorizes you to lick it. The game. I'm not licking it. Shut up. It's AI. That lick it. I'm not licking it. Shut up! That's AI! Deep fake! The door has been opened. The winterman tastes kind of good.

It's so bad. Okay. My one. What does it say? It says, hug me. Hug me! That's so much better than what I got. I can, like, that is so good.

I'm annoyed. Are you ready for this? I am ready for this. So Taylor, having chosen my candy heart, hug hug me just two weeks ago or so, I got to thinking and there's this lovely sometimes tongue-in-cheek phrase tree hugger, which I'm sure is a Vancouverite. Oh, yep, I've heard of it. You might be aware. You might have even met one. You might have even met one or two in my of it. You might be aware. You might have even met one.

You might have even met one or two in my time. Might have even been one. Might have even been one. I've hugged a tree. I've hugged a tree. It's good to hug trees. I think it is. Have you hugged a tree?

Yeah. Scratchy. Yeah, good to hug trees. Yeah. Ticks, you know. But, yeah. Yeah. You should do it once.

Watch out for ticks and scratches. But yeah, tree hugging, tree huggers, there is kind of a tongue-in-cheek connotation to it, like they're a bit schmaltzy, kind of like a do-gooder vibe to it. Lisa Simpson. A Lisa Simpson, yes. But then I found that tree hugging kind of has a longer history than the Birkenstock white people with dreads vibe that treehugging can sometimes carry. Okay. Well, we're going to go to the mid 1970s, Taylor.

Okay. We are in northern India in the foothills of the Himalayas in the beautiful state of Uttarakhand. It's where India's first national park was established. It's home to various biomes considering the different degrees of elevation. You can imagine the Himalayas being very tall. It's not to the height of Mount Everest necessarily, but still such a huge mountain range.

The foothills are quite, quite tall. So there's the mountainous elevation, the alpine regions. The state has meadows. It goes all the way to the subtropical. It's quite a huge range. 65% of the state is forested and the biodiversity is absolutely incredible. Leopards and Panthers live throughout the area. It's home to all different types of Ritals of Sloth. The brown and Himalayan Black Bear lives there, as does the Indian Gray Mongoose. All different types of Otters, Yellow Throated Martins, a Pangolin. Yeah, all different types of monkeys as well. So this area is filled with life and precious life that is endangered

in a lot of other areas. It's also the origin of not only the Ganges River, but another important river to the Indian subcontinent, the Yamuna. These are important to important river to the Indian subcontinent, the Yamuna. These are important to the ecology of the entire subcontinent because they run through the entire nation of India, but they also are holy sites in the Hindu tradition. So it's just like there's pilgrimages to Huttarakan to the state northern India. It's integral to an Indian way of life. In fact, Gandhi himself said that the Himalayas were an embodiment of the ideal village life

where humans could live in harmony with nature. It's 1974, March 26th, and we're in a small rural village called the Rani village Rani and there have been efforts across the region throughout the state to stop the advancement of logging that's become really pervasive in the last like 10 years or so and while these efforts all grassroots led from the villages more or less. While they have had some success, the Department of Forestry is still granting permits and allowing businesses to cut down large swaths of trees. In fact, they've given permission to a company to go to the forest near Ronnie Village and cut down lumber there. On the

day that they've instructed a logging crew to go into the forest and do just that, the forestry department has also called a meeting for the anti-logging leaders and the men of the local villages, including Ronnie. They've called a meeting where these men are meant to receive reparations for land used by the army. So all the men of the village, all the leaders of this anti-logging movement are out of town, engaged, and the Forestry Department has sent in saws and axes and workers to bring down trees. A young girl sees these laborers climbing up the steep hills just outside of Rani and she goes to the village elder who is named Guara Devi.

And Guara Devi has not been to any of the anti-logging meetings that have been happening in town. But she's heard everything from her son. Her son has been going and telling her in detail. So she knows that there's power behind this movement trying to keep the forestry department out of their forests. She gathers the women of the village, and she tells them, stop what you're doing and we need to go to the forest.

We need to confront these laborers. So word spreads quickly through the village and everyone, all the women, they stop their work. The work that essentially makes the village run, right? They gather the water, they do all the cooking, they rear the children, they weave the clothes and they all hoof it up the hillside along paths that they most likely walk

two to three times a day because the forest is a really important part of their lives. That's where they get any of their firewood but also their water. It's integral to their way of life. And the women tell the laborers to stop. They say, put down your tools. You're not supposed to be here.

And then when the workers tell them that they won't do that, and when they hurl insults and sometimes even threats at the women of the village. The women stay and they stand between the saws and the forest and they wrap themselves around the trunks of the trees. They hug the trees. They hug the trees. Okay, hug me. They hug the trees. Hug me. I'm gonna say that this is an acceptable satisfaction of the prompt, even if it is not a romance. That, so far. It's a romance, yes. It's a romance of ecology. It is a metaphorical romance. It's a love letter to the earth.

The workers, they decide that they won't cut down the trees when the women are hugging them because they won't have to cut through the women. So not gonna do that. One woman protester by the name of Kalawati, she remembers this day, she says, quote, we said we will hug the trees. Hit us if you will, but don't cut our trees. The workers realized this was dangerous and they withdrew. We were ready to die, but not willing to let anyone cut our forests. They said the forest is theirs. We said the air, water, and earth belonged to no single person.

Rightly so. The women of Rani village and Guara Devi, they keep guard of the trees through the night and over the next three or four days and nights. But they were concerned that the workers might try and come in the cover of night and cut trees. So they stayed in the forest and protected the trees. This became a defining moment in what was called the Chipcoal Movement. It was a village led grassroot village. Tree roots as opposed to grass roots. Tree roots. Tree roots. Women centered and nonviolent demonstration. That's the Chip Coal Movement. And it was with the goal and

intention to save the precious ecology of the Himalayan front hills. After this incident, the Uttar Pradesh government, which is the government of the state, established a committee of experts to investigate the issues of the ecology. So they were saying like, if we take out trees from this area, will that actually do anything? Are these villagers just getting up at you what's happening and they found that if they downed trees from this area it would have extensive negative effects on the oh I can only imagine yeah it's such like a

precious and like very carefully balanced geologically specific. During the foothills of the most vast mountains, at least tallest mountains, I don't know from mountains, but I know the fucking Himalayas. With, as you said, a fucking blue throat garbler over here and a pashmina goat over there and a fucking red-footed yak over here, and they can only fucking blossom

under the moonlight and of course removing trees on mass dramatically impacts the situation like that. Yeah. And so the government places a 10-year ban on all tree felling in an area of about a thousand kilometers square. That is how the Chipco movement got launched into the popular consciousness, 1973. So it's not quite maybe quite the same rapid media that we get today, but the word got to bigger cities in India and even internationally. And you should know as well that Chipko is hug.

Aw. How pretty. So, I know. It can also mean clingy. Which... Those awkward hugs, you know. Yes. The two can go hand in hand. And by hand in hand, I mean my hand meeting my other hand behind your back. Because I'm giving you a big hug. A big clingy hug.

Big clingy clingy hug, which I kind of like how there's that little disparity because Treehugger kind of holds that too. It's kind of like slightly derisive. It is. We're like in a Pacific Northwest kind of West Coast, crunchy granola, fucking drum circle kind of context. You might use Treehugger as a compliment, but like it's not. it's not a nice term. It's like, it's a derisive term. So perhaps I can't confirm nor deny, but perhaps there's a little bit of that in here, if it

can mean clicking. This is a fun satisfaction of the prompt. It's built into the name. One can't deny the presence of a hug in this story. Yeah. There's a lot of them. Long, deep hugs. Meaningful.

The trees. Scratchy. The one thing is I do wish there were a more literal romance, but if I'm being lenient in the regards to genre, that satisfies the promise. Okay. Well, there is a little bit of romance in here. Good. Okay. I can drum some up for you. Well, I would love little bit of romance in here. Good. Okay. I can drum some up for you.

Well, I would love to. If you so need it. I'm a little heart and I just wanted a little romantic spark to cling to on this love month virus. Be careful of the sparks and forests though. Yeah, to-chir. You know what? Smokers are jokers. Put those butts in the bin, etc. I'll give you a little more background about this area and its connection to forestry. Jokers or jokers put those butts in the bin, etc. I'll give you a little more background about this area and its connection to forestry. When the British had colonial control of the Indian subcontinent,

they came up to this area of Northern India and harvested a lot of wood. They went to some of the oldest, most established growth of teak and deodor forests and teak is like a really, really hard, hard wood and it takes a long, long time to grow. So they, they didn't clear all of it, but they cleared out some of the oldest stuff and big swaths of it to create rail ties for the railway network that crossed the entire nation of India, which was more or less a colonial project so that they could extract resources from across the subcontinent and ship them back to Europe or make money off them in some way. And kind of in that colonial mindset,

these forests of Northern India were just resources to take. There wasn't a deeper understanding of an ecological framework. Certainly there is no concern for how it might impact the people who already lived there. So then, India gets its independence in 1947 and no small part due to Mahatma Gandhi's nonviolent work that protested the British rule. And I mentioned that because his nonviolent work appears in the protest work that becomes part of the Chepka movement. So it has roots in Gandhian philosophy in terms of being like large grass roots, tree roots, fed, protests that centralize nonviolent work.

So even though the nation has its independence after 1947, So even though the nation has its independence after 1947, the Indian government is still trying to use this area for resource extraction. They're trying to prove themselves on the international scene and- The goddamn international scene. Which is, you know, it's just colonialism at work again. Stage two. The northern part of India becomes a commercial area for forestry. And the oak forests that were natural to that area

were converted to more commercially resonant pine trees, which had a really negative effect for villagers because it wasn't the tree that they were used to, but it had negative effects on the Himalayan ecology. We just talked about kind of how like careful the balance is in a sexually unique place. I watched a lot of Captain Planet around 3-4 in the morning when it came on TBS. Good stuff. Oh yeah. Captain Planet, man. Were you ever a fern gully? No, but we frequently watched a VHS copy of Home Alone that had an ad for fern gully at the front of it. And so really, I would call myself a fan of the commercial for fern gully.

But I don't really remember much about the movie itself. Tight. Tight, tight, tight. I'd love that movie. That was one of my favorite, favorite anime. That doesn't surprise me. Did you ever play ever play like pretend like you were Fern Gully? What do you mean play I was Fern Gully? What does that even mean? You I'm not on trial here. Fuck you. That is a completely reasonable question to ask Did you ever play pretend? Did you ever act out situations where, if you must have it in the fucking Queens English, did you ever act out situations where you and

your friends pretended to either be the characters from the film Fern Gully or play out situations? It's not such a ridiculous question. Okay, okay. I answer no, but I really did like the character Batty, who was voiced by Robin Williams. And I think I tried and channel Batty a lot. Like it'd be a weird little kid. Is Batty an asshole to his friends? Kind of actually. Okay, well you're fucking nailing it, honestly. You're doing a good job.

Yeah, yeah. No, he had this really good musical number. Okay, I thought you didn't like musicals, but Batty was it, though. Animated can do different things for me. Okay, okay. Fair enough. Yeah. And there's one character, Zach, is his name, and he falls in love with this forest fairy named Crystal.

And it's like a very like 80s, early 90s vibe where like, Zach is wearing a tank top and like, I should wash jeans. And he has a cassette player that he like a walkman like a walkman. Thank you. He has a walkman and like this like the yellow wire Headphones that have like the steel. Did you want to beg Zach? No, I didn't no, I didn't he had good hair. No, just not your type. I guess not Baddier broke I was wrong. Got it. Fair enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. I can't. Love takes so many shapes. Who am I? And Crystal had this like 80s rocker girl haircut. Yeah.

And like the cut fringe little fairy dress thing. Yeah. I remember her from the commercial that I watched so many times. I bet you did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was like a Pepsi commercial too. It was a ghost. Yeah, I had some Pepsi vibes. Yeah. So anyway, that was Ferngully. Yeah. Good book report. Good book report. Yeah. I'll do three ninjas next time. Yes, sorry, but we're talking about something entirely different. Yeah, back to Northern India. Oh yeah, I was talking about how even after Indian independence, there's a lot of forestry commercialization happening in the area that's still not very good.

But the local villages are starting to come together. And under that Gandhian philosophy of nonviolent protest there's a lot more movement and a lot more speaking out against the forestry department and a lot more speaking out against any companies that are going into the area but still there's pushback from up above. In fact, in 1973, the villagers of Chamoli requested an allotment of trees that they could harvest for agricultural implements, which typically they would be making plows with that kind of thing. But it's, you know, it's to make tools for their livelihood essentially.

And the Department of Forests denies them. They say, no, you can't, you can't be doing that. That's, you know, not a good use of the forest up there. But they do grant a sports manufacturing company named Simmons. They grant them permission to cut the forest just a few miles away from there. Okay. And it's like a big acreage of growth.

So the villagers are like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We wanted this tiny little thing to continue our way of life and you denied that, but you're going to let this big company come in, raise it all down and remove the lumber and put it somewhere else for, I don't know, cricket bats or whatever. Well, yeah. So that's one of the elements that kind of reveals the, I guess, how two-faced the bureaucracy is that it really doesn't have the people of that time.

When does it ever? Exactly, yeah. Especially like rural villages that are scattered through the hillsides. Very easy, especially like even now, but especially that I'm sure very easy to kind of hush that sort of thing up where you're like, okay, we can just deplete all the trees here and move on to the next. And if people are angry about it, oh well, like what are they going to do? Yeah, because it's such a small population. Like what are they really going to say? And how is this really going to affect the larger nation of India

while maybe having the commercialization and the economy that comes from a sports manufacturing company, I guess, or just any type of commercialization, like having that economic boost, that will help the greater good. Kind of strange logic when you think about it. Yeah. So that helps to galvanize the movement.

And that was 1973. It's March 1974 when the women of Rainey hugged the trees and get more and more word out about this Chip Coe movement. I think that's when the movement kind of solidifies in its name and in its intent, tree roots, nonviolent, female centered, all of that. And part of this getting spread through the country and through the entire region is publications, media,

understanding that it's this duality of not only saving the ecology, this precious ecology of the area, but also maintaining and taking care of a certain way of life in these rural villages. So there's a newspaper called Ammar Ujali, who in 1974 published an article that reads, if trees remain, the mountains remain, and so does the country. To be against trees is akin to denying your own identity. We have to see each tree as a young person in a new India. So it's like gaining traction nationally in this post-independence movement. Yeah, I'm into it. Like I think that sort of at our peril we

continuously underestimate the value of nature of trees of mountains of etc. and we need to start treating them with more respect and more sustainable approaches to harvesting. They're treating them. So there's a lot of different protests that take place through the Chipko movement. And they're in these small villages. There is more tree hugging that's involved. But there's also, there's also a lot of protest songs that are born of this movement. Yeah, classic protest shit. Yeah, yeah, pretty classic, yeah, I'd say that.

A lot of camping in the forest so that loggers won't come again overnight. And there's a lot of people who are involved because it's essentially a decentralized movement. It's not like one group of people who are saying, we's essentially a decentralized movement. It's not like one group of people who are saying, we're just going to do all this work. The idea is to spread it communally and to let it go through all these different villages so that each one feels empowered enough to stand up to the forestry department and to commercialized forestry in general. Yeah, strengthen that network, tree roots. Yeah, exactly.

Strengthen that network, make them like a big meaty, girthy tree roots. Rhizome. Rhizome, baby, rhizome, shit. Rhizome. To the rhizome. By the, I mean, just now. Yeah, thank you. So I'll highlight a few folks who are important here. Guwara Devi, who I mentioned earlier,

she was the village elder who was called upon to gather people, gather the women of the village. She, after this, was elected to lead the Woman's Welfare Association in her region. So she stepped into this organizing role in a really cool way even though I think at the time In 1973 she was like in her 70s in her 80s. She was she was an elder for sure So she's important because this like core Story involves her. Yeah, this core kind of like woman led aspect Still there were men who were involved in the movement.

It wasn't only women. Someone had to carry that, the fucking tree stump surround. Yeah. Someone big and strong. Yeah. This guy named Chandee Prasad Bhatt. He was a former clerk when he was younger

and he studied nonviolent protest in that Gandhi tradition. And he left his job to promote social justice in the rural Hill area of the Northern States. And he was interested in organizing villagers so that they could develop economically on their own without being reliant on departments and the larger economy. There was also at this time a lot of work

to fight a liquor abuse. What was seen as liquor abuse in the area. There was just a lot of booze in these regions that was kind of getting a little out of control. Like a lot of villages was just like, this is too much. We're getting an influx of alcohol that was not here before. In times of struggle, that can be a distraction versus something to help. So he was instrumental in fighting this liquor abuse that was throughout Uttarakhand. Apparently he was the one responsible for calling the movement Chipko, for giving it

this name rooted in a hug. I don't know if that is entirely true, but there are a few sources who say that. There's a question with it because there is another person who's part of the Chipko movement and he's a poet, Ganshayam Sailani. And he wrote many of these protest songs that became really popular and through song, a lot of the word and a lot of the news of the Chipko movement was able to spread through the regions, through these different relatively isolated villages.

Being hillside villages, it was, you know, harder to move from one to the next. So, poems and songs were really a huge important part. Yeah, if you've ever been to any kind of protest, you're fucked without some good songs. You're fucked without some good chance. Otherwise, you're just a bunch of people standing around and getting honked at by people who think that you don't have a job. Yeah, the songs and the poems, the chants are a really big part of the process. So I have a proposal for you, not like a romantic kind, but I mean, listen, the night is young. Would you... I'm gonna tell you never ask.

Well, when I was at your wedding I thought it might be too late, but I'm glad to know that to us. Here's my question. If the Chipco movement got in touch with you and said, we really want to branch out to like English speaking North America and we want you to write some chants for us, just like, give us a quick couplet. What would your tree-hugging protest chant be? Oh man it might be Ferngully inspired. That's why I welcome that. Maybe Zach! Take Crystal! The black ooze is coming! We've decided to go for another carrot. The black ooze is coming! Jesus Christ!

The black ooze is coming! Stop the chainsaws! Keep the forest running! Oh that's not bad! You picked it up! You as a... Thank you! Zach! I'm so excited! oozes coming. Stop the chainsaws. Keep the forest running. Oh that's not bad. You picked it up. You was uh... Thank you. Zach, get crystal. The black oozes coming. The black oozes coming.

Then what happens when it's next? Stop the chainsaws and keep the forest running. Yeah. That's not bad. The chainsaws and And keep the forest running. Zach, you're a big crystal. I'm a big crystal. Fuck, it was just coming. Oh, that's funny. Okay, and you. And you, dear sir? That's what I was going to say.

That's what I was going to say. You took the red jade out of my mouth. I guess I did, yeah. So, Gansham Sailani, he might have been the one who actually coined the term chip go because he has a chant that goes, like a song, I guess you could say, a song that goes, hug the trees to protect them from axes. Let's preserve the true wealth of our hills. It might

sound better. It's probably catchier in the end. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. It gets the message across. Like the if that rhymed I'd be like yes. Sure. Yeah. It's no Zach get crystal the black No, it's not. No, it's not. And, you know, for better or worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, there's another sweet pair who were instrumental in the Chipko movement, and here's our little side story to love.

Okay, okay. If by the end of this, I feel like we have a satisfactory amount of romance, then I will, I will deem this trip completely fulfilled the prompt. Okay, good. So, Sundar Lal and Vimla Baoguna, these, these two are married couple that did a lot of work for the Chipko movement. And after that movement, even more work for the ecological... What were you laughing? did a lot of work for the Chip Go movement. And after that movement, even more work for the ecological. What are you laughing? I'm still thinking of Zach and Crystal.

Oh, OK. I'm still thinking of Zach and Crystal. That's all. The black ooses coming. Stop. They chase us. Yeah, because we're training. It's not bad. So you're's not bad. It's not bad.

So you're telling me about cinderlau and dint. And Vimla. Yes, Vimla as well. Vimla as well. Okay. Continue. They're instrumental in the Chipko movement and even beyond that, they're hallmarks of the Northern Indian ecological protests. Vimla came from a family that prioritized her

education, which was unique in her experience. She was born like 1930s. And when an ashram close by opened up that specialized in education for women, Her family sent her there and she started essentially kind of college. She went to college and she got word from her father after being there for about a year that her marriage had been arranged and she was meant to come home and marry this man who was a rising local politician. And she said, what was he a multi-millionaire? Was he a comedian? No, well, I guess it doesn't matter. The other guy? Yeah.

And she said, well, I've just started here. I have more work to do, so I'm not going to go home and get married right now. And so she tells this young man that she won't get married right now, and that if he does want to marry her, that he can't be a politician, he should go into social work like her, because that's where her interest lies. She wants to help her communities but she

doesn't want to do it from a political standpoint. She wants to be side by side with them. Yeah, change. And surprisingly, Sundar Lal agrees. He says, I will wait for you to finish your education and I don't need to be a politician. I'll do the social work. Whoa, twist. Yeah, twist. Okay. I know. So they are married after she finishes schooling. Okay.

And they are a huge part of the Chipco movement. They move to one of these very small northern Indian villages. And they start organizing people. They are both instrumental in the anti-licker movement that happens in the area. And Vimla actually says that through that work, which was mainly led by women of the villages, through that work, it really empowered the women to see like, okay, if we stand up and if we say something, something will happen. Like a change will occur. And so she cites that as being kind of the ground floor of the Chippko movement, as all these women feel empowered enough to stand up to,

to not just the liquor being sold in their villages, but to these outside labors that are coming into feltries. Not only are they doing that work, but they're walking barefoot from village to village to mobilize public opinion about the Chipko movement. Sundar Lal embarks on a kilometer long foot march between Kashmir and Kohima. So this long raising awareness hike. He does a similar thing when he cycles the length of the Ganges. I guess that's why he's like, I should maybe take a bike for that one. And in the 1980s, both Sandilal and Vimla, they start protesting the construction of one of India's tallest dam projects, the Tehviri Dam Project. They stage campouts.

They essentially uproot their lives to live closer to the dam and mobilize and organize the villages that will be affected by it. And that lasts for almost 10 years their work against the Terry Dam project. And so they've done like protest after protest after protest and had a very long happy marriage doing it, which is really sweet. which is really sweet. Sunderlal passed away in 2021 in his 90s. He actually caught COVID. I know.

Vimla is still alive in her 90s and is still talking about the Chipko movement and talking about ecological awareness in the northern state of India. Part of their work, they coined this term that, or this phrase I should say that seems very useful. Ecology is permanent economy, which I think is a good way to combat maybe that idea of like, well, isn't it for the greater good of India? Economy, economy versus ecology? Yeah, yeah, but ecology is permanent economy. Yeah. It's kind of cool.

So they have a lovely little love story for this bittersweet romance. Satisfies the prompt then. In the early 1980s, the government passes a very particular law that protects the Uttarakhand region from forestry. And this becomes kind of the defining and kind of the endpoint of the Chipko movement. And the impact of the Chipko movement, I think is extremely interesting too, because there's this sense that,

especially the term tree hugger, it has this green piece, this kind of like very maybe North American, white, Western view of saving the planet and saving the planet for the planet's sake, which I think is still important. But what's really unique about the Chipko movement is that it's largely indigenous people who are doing it, people of color, which is not always associated with tree hugging, and it's most like basic and vacuous idea. And it's also this really grassroots fed, I gotta say tree roots, this tree roots fed movement. The well's been poisoned.

And it's also this protest that's not just about saving the trees for the trees' sake, it's saving the trees because the trees are so integral to a way of life. And that without this forest, without this particular biome, these villages would not be able to survive. And so there's a really like much more integrated view of ecological protest that in the 1970s was not really seen in the North American. Yeah, it's a bit more of a sophisticated idea. It's a bit more nuanced.

Yeah, yeah. And I think we see it more now, but even still, there is kind of this Westernized view of like, we'll recycle your pop cans, and that'll save the Earth. And it's kind of like. You should recycle your pop cans. I mean, you should. That's a thing.

It's like. But it's a bigger thought than that. But I think something to note in this vein, too, is that in 1971, so two years before the Rennie protest, so the tree hugging, the prime minister of India, Indira Gandhi, she tells the world's first international environment conference in Stockholm that, quote, poverty is the biggest polluter, end quote,

which in other words is this idea that poorer countries must concentrate on becoming rich before they can start doing the work of ecological sustainability. Okay, okay, let's get that oxygen mask on first kind of thought. Yeah, yeah, put the oxygen mask on you first and then your child, I guess. In this case, the child is the globe. Right, yeah, the globe, yeah. Okay, good. But the Rini protest, the tree-hugging protest, the Chipco movement, is saying that essentially it's poor women who are, who ground the movement, they're saying that economic development comes with environmental destruction. If you are trying to remove poverty by destroying the

environment, you're not going to be able to actually have any type of wealth. You can't build a castle in a crater kind of thing? Yeah, ecology is permanent economy. So to deforest the Himalayan foothills is just going to further impoverish what you deem already impoverished people. And it also raises the question like are they really impoverished if all of their resources and what they need is right there for them. If you remove them then you've impoverished them. I don't know, access to hospitals might be helpful. Yeah. Let's give them hospitals too. Fuck it. Let's give them

hospitals too. Exactly. The Chipko movement has ended more or less in terms of its like initial phase of the 1970s into the 1980s protests. So according to Vimla, who was interviewed in her 90s, quote, at this age, I'm satisfied that we did everything in our capacity to protect our environment. We dedicated our whole life to this cause and have no regret, which is kind of sweet because I think this we that she's talking about is her and our husband. Yeah, that's very sweet. And they seem to have had a long life together stewarding the environment, right? Yeah. But Vimla continues, she says,

but I would still say that the current generation needs to do more. Especially in 2013, there was catastrophic flooding in this northern state. It was termed the Himalayan tsunami with how bad this flooding and landslides were. And 5,000 people went missing and are now presumed dead after a decade has passed. Jesus, so many. And not only that, but in 2021, there's been more and more flooding in the area from melting glaciers, resulting in deaths and destruction of villages. Yeah, and I imagine that that'll only intensify with climate change.

And so, unlike you say, this is a very delicate ecology. Yeah, and, you know, cutting down a tree is going to affect the warmth of the glacier and its melting point. I guess maybe not its melting point, that stays. No one said this was a science podcast. I have the warmth of the glacier and it's melting point. I guess maybe not it's melting point that stays. No one said this was a science podcast. What is melting point? What is poverty?

What is end of it? What is the tree? It's a tree. And. So Taylor, for this Valentine's month, for this sweet, sweet romance, take care of something you love. Go hug a tree. I will, I will go hug a tree. Now that you've asked me to, I have no choice but to comply.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's like a chain letter if you don't send it back bad luck. A ghost will wake, fucking wake up above your bed and take your feet, bad news. I would say that yeah, I'm into it. I like these stories of, I don't know, communities mobilizing in their own best interests and successfully it seems like, which is really cool. Yeah. Hug me. Big hug. Well now you're on deck for your candy heart. I'm on deck. You cutie pie. I mean, bunch.

It's gonna be, but yeah, I got cutie. I'm excited. I'm gonna, I've got something on deck. We'll see how it goes. And in the meantime, I will go and hug a tree. Eat some candy hearts. Hug a tree. No.

Just the tree. Just the tree. I like chocolate. I'm more of a chocolate guy than a candy guy. Thanks for listening. If you want more infamy, we've got plenty more episodes at bittersweetinfamy.com. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you want to support the podcast, shoot us a few bucks via our coffee account at ko-fi.com forward slash bittersweetinthym. But no pressure, bittersweetinthym is free, baby. You can always support us by liking, rating, subscribing, leaving a review, following us on Instagram at bittersweetinthymete.

Or just pass the podcast along to a friend who you think would dig it. Stay sweet. For this episode's of Infamous, I watched the special itself, Who Wants to Marry a Multi-Millionaire on the YouTube account River's Cuomo Funko Pop. I watched Nasty Aftermath of Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire, where they now the Oprah Winfrey Network YouTube channel. I watched Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire winner on Fleeting Reality TV fame on Entertainment Tonight. I read the Wikipedia page for Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire, I read TV Bride Dumps Millionaire, Husband BBC February 23rd 2000, and Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire? Not the Bride on CBC News February 23rd 2000 and who wants to marry a multimillionaire? Not the bride on CBC News

February 23rd 2000. The sources that I used for this episode include an article from JStore Daily entitled The Tree Huggers Who Saved Indian Forests written by Livia Gershon Published March 27th, 2019 I read two articles from the Hindu, one entitled The Chipko Movement of People's History Review When Nature Speaks Out Published Very Ray 20th, 2021 Written by Uma Mahadavan Dasgupta And another article entitled

How to Kill a Forest Take People Out of the Equation Published April 13th, 2019 article entitled How to Kill a Forest, Take People Out of the Equation, published April 13, 2019. I read an article from the publication Article 14, 50 Years on, Vem la Bahunga on the Chipko Movement, Her Late Husband and Ties That Buy, written by Jyoti Thakur, March 1, 2023. Special shout out to Jonathan Mountain and Erica Jo Brown, our monthly subscribers. If you too are interested in some exclusives like the Bittersweet Film Club, you can join Erica Jo and Jonathan at coffee.com slash bittersweetinfamy. That's k-o-f-i dot com slash bittersweetinfamy and sign up to be a monthly subscriber.

Bittersweet imp me is a member of the 604 podcast network. The interstitial music you heard earlier was by Mitchell Collins and the song you're listening to now is Too Street by Brian Steele. you