Blank Check with Griffin & David - A Broken Heart with Sonia Saraiya - Revenge Of The Podcast

Episode Date: October 23, 2015

Griffin and David welcome another amazing guest this week, Sonia Saraiya (Salon, AV Club). Together, they examine the life and death of Padmé, including her pregnancy with half a baby, losing the will to live medically speaking, insisting a child murderer still has some good in them and Jimmy Smits’ ship. Also, a tasty merchandise corner with snacks and the return of popular segment ‘What If’. And remember don’t listen to Griffin and please keep rating, reviewing and commenting dear listeners.

I don't know how to say this, but it feels like we have lost the will to live. What do you mean? Hey, everybody, I'm Griffin. He did this last week. Look at that spike. Hey! I'm foreshadowing. Drop their cups of coffee on the subway.

Draft day style. Yeah. I'm foreshadowing what we're going to talk about today on this week's episode of Revenge of the Podcast. I'm being the robot doctor. David's cupping his hands. You know, the robot doctor comes out and he cups his hands. He's linking his fingers.

I am Griffin. I'm David Sims. This is Griffin Day Present, Revenge of the Podcast, a podcast where we discuss the third and final film in Georgie Porgy Lucas' Star Wars trilogy. Yeah, Phantom Menace Saga. That's what we call it. It's called Revenge of the Sith. We have a very special guest with us here today.

David, would you like to introduce her? Because you, and I'm not angry about this. You shouldn't be. Have podcasted with her in the past. Yeah, but she was the original podcast. I'm not jealous. You're the chief. I'm not jealous. You, but she was the original podcast. I'm not jealous. I'm not jealous. You know, you're the other woman. I'm not jealous.

This is Sonia Saraya. Hi. Hi. Hi, David. Who I do a podcast with called Night Cheese. Hi. Yeah, it's fun. We should eat cheese, actually, on this podcast. We should have gotten. Well, I did just have a chicken parm flatbread from Pax Wholesome Foods. Is that really what you want to put on the line right now? Look.

Look. That's what they had and that's what I got. What did you have? I had a crispy chicken club. I had cheese on it as well. Sonia's the TV critic for Salon.com. Yes, and Griffin, you are the other woman. I actually... When you guys first started talking about the podcast on Twitter, I did yell at you

both about starting this. I know. We got you on. No, I did yell at you both about starting this. I know, I know. We got you on. No, I appreciate it, obviously. Obviously, whatever. This is a threesome, literally, right now. Yeah, well, hey, let's not let Ben. Ben can have some fun. I can watch.

Ben's watching. Ben's in the corner. Yeah, of course, we have with us, as always, Producer Ben, a.k.a. Purdueer Ben, a.k.a. the Ben-ducer, a.k.a. Mr. Positive, a.k.a. the Haas, a the Haas, aka HelloFennel, aka Peeping Tom. He's got a new nickname.

He's gonna watch while we all boon. I'm making it uncomfortable for... That was the joke we were all making. It's true, we were. Yeah, but I just wanted to rip the rug out from under you. Sonia, if you're saying that I'm the other woman, in this situation, Ben would be... What are you doing right now?

Kate Upton. Oh, we're doing the film The Other Woman. You would be Leslie Mann. I'd be Cameron Diaz. And David would be Nikolai Costarwaldo. That's a really good position for you. I guess so. Have you seen that movie?

He goes through some tough stuff in that movie. I actually have not seen that movie. They give him hormones and his nipples get enlarged. I think he loses his job at the end of the movie. That's a weird movie, The Other Woman. You shouldn't cheat. We shouldn't cheat twice.

It's on man with Diaz and then on Diaz with Kate Upton. That's what the movie is. Didn't Nick Cassavetes direct that movie? Probably true. We were talking about Cassavetes before. He discovered a young Jake Lloyd way back when. Yeah.

Sometimes the apple falls so far from the tree, it's in a different galaxy. Far, far away. Which brings us to the Star Wars galaxy. Today, Sony, we're very excited to have you on the show to discuss Padme's role in the film Revenge of the Sith or lack thereof. I want to say it's a little fucked up that we always have a female guest for whenever we talk about Padme. Is that true?

I think it's unintentional because we had Rachel on for the second episode too. But it was because Rachel is the only person I've ever met who actually was into Anakin and Padme. Found it romantic. Really? At the time. Wait, Rachel Sanders? No, no, Rachel Lang.

I don't know who this is. She was on our trivia team. But that is fascinating. I know. She was all in when she was 12 or whatever. Wow. 13. Yeah.

On Anakin. Were you all in on Anakin and Padme? I was hypothetically all in on both of them. Okay. Speak on that. Oh, God. Please speak on Anakin. Were you all in on Anakin and Padme? I was hypothetically all in on both of them. Speak on that. What's your experience with the Star Wars, with the Phantom Menace saga? Well, of course, because these are the only three Star Wars films, I definitely did

not come into the prequel with any idea of what two characters I wanted to end up together. But I was so weirded out from the get-go by the fact that they had this like maternal like that she had this like maternal thing going on especially in phantom right because you're watching it and you're going wait a minute are real are those two going to be the two they put together yeah and then they are and it doesn't really change like

that sort of weird taking care of thing like it it never point they never really have chemistry it never really takes off like and she is always the sort of yeah the sort of like now anakin she does a lot of you know when are you talking about well in and in this film i i was noticing because as i was saying before i watched just the podme and anakin scenes or yeah you give yourself a concentrated dose. Takes me about 10 minutes. She's not in this movie. We should talk about that. It's unfortunate.

It's a little frustrating. We think Portman may have just been like, George, I'm busy now. Like, please, let's just, you know. I do think there's a lot to discuss in how little of this film she is in. Because George has said in behind the scenes material for Phantom Mass

that he considered her the lead of that movie Phantom Mass that he considered her the lead of that movie. Yeah. He considered her the lead of Phantom. Oh wow. Her story told from the perspective of Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon is how he describes the first film. I will say that, okay I'm sorry showing my stripes here but I really did like her portrayal in the first

movie. We like her in the first movie. Yeah. Griffin made such a face. I like her as Padme not as much as Queen Amidala. But she's not playing Amidala that much. Right. But also because Karen Knightley subbed us in for Kit Burr. So it's a little complicated.

The great Peyton Swift. The legendary Khan. I actually think they did a pretty good job with that. They look similar. You just never quite know why it's happening. And then all of a sudden it happens and there's feelings. I liked that because I liked that she was a politician. I liked that she had

a coterie of her handmaidens who were sort of also her advisors even though they sort of looked like weird nuns. And her bodyguards. And they'd all lost to her in elections as we discovered. Yeah, we found this out.

Oh my God. They were the losing candidates. And also the losing candidates for the role, I believe. That's what we're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They didn't get to be queens so they had to be handmaidens.

Right, right, right. It's like if Mitt Romney- But are you saying in the mythology they also all were like vice presidents? Like they all- We're saying within the mythology

all of them ran against her and then because they lost, they had to take the position of handmaiden. But also in real life, all of them auditioned. Oh yeah, right. Oh yeah, it was reflecting reality.

Of course. Oh my God. Not Sofia Coppola though. I think she just wanted to work on it. Oh God. We're getting way into The Phantom Menace.

I'm sorry. No, it's okay. But just imagine if Mitt Romney had to be Obama's butler if he lost to him. That's just, I just No, it's okay. But just imagine if Mitt Romney had to be Obama's butler if he lost to him. That's, I just still think it's funny. It would be the greatest.

Episode one, Padme's super important. Yeah, she's important and she's a plot driver and she gets a chance to like be courageous and be interesting and whatever.

And she's the fucking queen of a planet. She's the queen of a planet. And she successfully defends it. At 14. At 14. Which is bizarre. Very impressive.

Yes. And then she becomes a baby crazy lunatic. Well, let's talk about episode two for a little bit. All right. Just so we can chart this transition, the devolution of her character and her agency. Yeah. So episode two, she's a senator. Sure.

She's been demoted, but she- She's a playmaker. Being very happy now with less responsibility. Well, she sort of has less responsibility and she sort of has more. She sort of graduated from governing the planet to sort of being the

representative on the world stage. She's sort of like in a Secretary of State position. It's a cool first queen thing to do. In the Senate. She's the leader of the anti-militarization wing. And she... Gets a bodyguard.

Gets a bodyguard who's Anakin Skywalker. Who is an eight-year-old boy she met once who asked if she was an angel. And still has a major boner for her. Just a huge, huge... It is the most obvious, most unpleasant boner. And watches her on security feeds while she sleeps. He is violently devoid of charisma. And watches her on security feeds while she sleeps. He is violently devoid of charisma.

And she cannot help but fall in love with him. It makes no sense whatsoever. And he expresses his interest in a dictatorship running the galaxy. People disagree with you. You should kill them. And he says that politicians are stupid. She's a politician. And somehow she's trying to stop this. And this is their courtship.

Yeah, and then they roll around in the flowers. He's negging her. He's negging her. Dunning. And somehow she's trying to fight this. And this is their courtship. Yeah. And then they like roll around in the flowers. He's negging her. He's negging her. He's negging her. Dunning. Well, this is the thing. If you watch their relationship, they have such an abusive dynamic. It is terrifying.

He's a bad boy. He sucks. He's a bad person. He sucks. He threatens her like constantly. And like over the course of these three films, she's like this independent person who gradually becomes like sequestered into his quarters. Right. And this is crucial in the third movie.

Yeah. She's basically only on one set. Right. And she's only in that weird circular living room of theirs with like all of the cushions. And every time that they're there, she's like slightly more pregnant. But also it's the least convincing baby bump of all time i think we should get into that for a second but also every time that they talk he is dour they have no joy and she's always saying you have to let me in and it's like oh

my god like it's textbook it's textbook abusive relationship also most abusive relationships i feel run hot and cold right Like there is a hot. Right. Why do you stay with him? He's such an asshole. And it's like, oh, you don't know sometimes. Anakin's never given her anything other than just bum or sass. And sperm.

Yeah. He's just going, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, all the time. And she's like, I don't know. I just love him so much. It's so weird. Yeah. It's, yeah. I think, here's my only, I think she's a busy

lady, at least up until the third movie. She's retired now in this third one. I know. She's still kind of in the Senate, isn't she? Because at the end she's with Bail Organa and they're in the little, they're in one of their little pods. Is she not in the Senate? I thought they were just watching it. She dies at the end of the movie. Not the end.

We're talking about... No, I think you're right. Someone didn't do her research. I think you're right. She's hanging out with Bail Organa for a bit. The Queen will not let her be in the Senate anymore once it's discovered that they're, whatever, they're illicit relationship. The Queen played by Keisha Castle-Hughes. Academy Award nominee. Yeah, who doesn't actually

have a line in this movie, but you do see her at the funeral. Yep. By the way, I think it's also interesting that they don't have sonograms in this universe. No one knows that she has twins. Look, it's inexplicable because it's not a twist in the movie when she has two babies. Like, it plays no plot point, but for some reason they decide to reveal it then. Like, I don't know why.

Like, they could have just said, like, I'm pregnant, Annie. We're twins. Congrats. Twins. I guess it's so Anakin doesn't know there's a sister or a brother. They could have just said, like, I'm pregnant, Annie. We're twins. Congrats. Twins. I guess it's so Anakin doesn't know there's a sister or a brother. But, I mean, these are obviously the only three films that he's ever made, so it doesn't matter. But, you know. It's very annoying.

I understand why you keep on restating things. Our listenership is not stupid, Summer. You can just. Look, we don't like bits on this podcast. We know how many movies there are. Look, I just want to make this clear. We have a very erudite listenership. They are they are well educated oh can i read some of this oh sidebar i'm sorry sonia to cut you off but it's very important we do some housekeeping every

episode to read some listener review it's very important we do some housekeeping because rating us reviewing us subscribing to our cousin podcast on the UCB Comedy Network. We have 42 reviews now. Don't you want to pump us up to 50? Well, I don't know. 42, Jackie Robinson. Maybe that's the right number. It's a good number.

Maybe we go one above. We become problematic. Noted baseball fan Griffin Newman. Yep. Okay. No one mentioned Hitchhikers. Hitchhikers? Oh, Hitchhikers got to go. Of course, 42.

Life, the universe, and everything. So everyone, please keep rating, but don't review anymore because we found the perfect number of reviews Don't say that, no Please review Don't listen to him Keep reviewing I want to, so I just want to say some

things Read out some reviews We've got a review say some things. Read out some reviews. We've got a review from Ramona Castle. Have you read this one? I think this is our friend Ramona. Perhaps. There's a heart is the title.

Hi, Griffin and David. I love you both. Even though every episode of this belies it, you're both perfect gentlemen. Five stars. Wow. Now, how about this one from Conrado Falco? Did you read this one? This one's really good. I'm looking's really looking at this one why do you read that aloud mozart tolstoy picasso griffin and david p.s producer ben is also a genius that's the full review all right

all right that's the full review all Alright, and here from MonkeyShines. Hello, Fennel, he says. Though I am dismayed and a-furious at the fact that there's no new episode this week, that was last week, or two weeks ago. When is this episode coming out? I've decided to give this a five-star rating because only David and Griffin

could piss me off this much. The Benducer is just charming and never rankles me. There you go, Ben. Alright, that's enough reviews. No, I got one more I want to read. This is the last one. Five star review. The subject heading is delightful. Love the podcast but if I have it my way, you will never work

and show business again, Griffin. And that review is from Colin Trevorrow. You're an asshole, Colin. What if it was from Colin Trevorrow? I mean, who knows? Maybe that's his iTunes account. Was so obsessed with himself that he even heard our podcast dissing him. We don't like Colin Trevorrow. You know, director of Jurassic World?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. He's a bummer. And he should be kicked in the penis. Didn't he say some dumb shit about women? He did. Oh, yes. This is like what I know him for.

He gave one of those answers where it's like, look, of course I think more women should direct movies, but they don't want to and there's not enough women and where are the women anyway? He said like eight things that suck. He said, listen, sweetie, the thing you don't understand is that we are going to get sued.

Women don't want to do big budget movies. That's not what they're interested in. I have no interest in doing big budget movies myself. No, no one does. Just why I'm here talking big budget movies. That's not what they're interested in. I have no interest in doing big budget movies myself. No, no one does. Just why I'm here talking about Star Wars. That's why. There's a reason it's a white man's game because only white men like them. Only white men like being successful. That's why

throughout history only white men have succeeded. I hate Colin Trevorrow. It's because they're the only ones that want to. I know what else wanted it. Other people like failing. It's weird. It's true. Listenership, listenership, please rate, review, subscribe, and kick Colin Trevorrow in his wiener.

That's now end of housekeeping segment. Yep. Natalie Portman. Natalie Portman in this movie. Yes. Like you said, so here's Padme's arc

in this movie, right? We've got the opening battle scene. And let's remember, I'm sorry, in the first two movies, she has a gun. Yeah. She's in all the action sequences. She gets in it. In the this movie, right? We've got the opening battle scene. And let's remember, I'm sorry, in the first two movies, she has a gun. Yeah. She's in all the action sequences.

She gets in it. In the second movie, she's in a gladiator pit. She fights the praying mantis and a cat. She gets the good midriff tearing thing. A scar only on her back.

Yeah. And then at the end, and then, you know, before the climactic sequence, she falls out of a spaceship or whatever. You know, she at least gets to have

a little bit. Oh, she's there. Yeah. You know, they come back from the war and she's like, Annie, I'm pregnant. And his reaction is kind gets to have a little bit. Oh, she's there. They come back from the war and she's like, Annie, I'm pregnant. And his reaction is kind of like,

yeah, great. Oh, great. I'm so excited. I love you so much. And then she's in her apartment for a bunch of scenes. Is it an apartment? I feel like it's like a penthouse.

It's like a loft. It's Coruscant. So I don't think there's anything but apartments. I don't think anyone has a townhouse, right? Whole planet's a city. I don't know if you know this. It's a goddamn nice whatever it is.

It's very nice. It has this huge balcony. It's like massive. It's got like a helipad for a balcony. Yeah. Who knows what's under it? Like slaves. It's just like 14 stories of slaves. Well, that's how Coruscant works. I think it's like there's like the surface level real nasty. There's like a thousand basements. Right. Mid-level. So-so.

Would you say it's downtown or uptown? Uptown. Yeah, what do you think? Uptown, Karissa? I think it's uptown. The thing we don't- On the planet? It's hard to talk about how the whole planet is too.

Uptown in relation to how close to the sky it is. Oh, right. Obviously. The thing we need to acknowledge, though, is, you know, yes, it's a really nice apartment. How'd she afford it? It is a studio. We only ever see the one room. That's true. No, no, no. We see the bedroom too, Griffin.

Oh, that's right. Because he has the Padme dream. Also, I have so many issues with that scene. What the fuck does she wear to bed in that scene? She has this beaded nightgown. No human would wear beads. Have you seen how she dresses

in these kind of movies movies she dresses like a yeah anyway it's a little late to start this argument she's wearing them i know i know no i know and he gets to be shirtless in bed and she has to wear some beaded concoction also she has that thing to brush her hair yes no difference is occurring on her hair while that is our hair is impeccably styled already. No, it's not. It's like frizzy and like 90s curly. There's like something,

like the whole thing around her, her costuming is messed up, her character is messed up. It's like they didn't, they forgot how to have thoughts about her. She's a real character in two movies and then in this movie, yeah. It's more just like,

she's just a plot device to drive Anakin crazy. Well, and as soon as she gets pregnant she has to like she's pregnant yeah she has to be like literally like she has no character she can't do anything anymore and it's you also think i mean a we've talked about in the past uh on this show that he's a well-known and and beloved political figure, a former queen, then senator, suddenly becoming pregnant with no identified father.

Yeah. She's in an interesting situation, right? That she is a woman who is having to keep her love secret. Right. It's almost like, I don't know, maybe you could do scenes addressing that. Right, right, right.

Maybe that's an interesting plot thread to follow about how she navigates this world in which she has to keep her love a secret. No, it would be so cool. She appears to be having children out of wedlock. But she never leaves her house. Right. And there's no discussion of, like, what, like,

so marriage is, like, forbidden for Jedi, I guess. But, like, there's no discussion of marriage for, like, the rest of this universe. No. Like, what role it plays, like, how, how, you know, what it looks like for her the rest of this universe like what what role it plays like how we have no idea you know what it looks like this is the only married couple we know in the whole yeah right that's actually well i mean uh uh oh and lars i'm and uh owen and lars well whatever the fuck yeah and shmi and right and lars but they're they're common folk

yeah they're salt to the earth they have no interest in directing big budget blockbusters. That's true. Bail Organa has a wife. Does he not, Jimmy Smits? Oh, he says he has a wife. We'll take a girl. Me and my wife have always wanted a girl. You don't see her.

Yeah, I can't. It makes no sense. Let's not jump ahead. Let's not jump ahead. Jimmy Smits. So the whole movie, all conflict in this film. We don't like bits. Smith, Smith, Smith, Smith, Smith.

Smith. Go on, please. The whole movie. The whole conflict of this movie derives from Anakin's love for Padme being so profound that he will do anything to save her. Yes. Including kill her. Yes. Well, we'll get to that. And we already talked about that a little because that is

bonkers. Bananas. Big pile of bananas. You feel like, I know that we already had a previous film, Attack of the Clones, that gave us scene after scene of exquisitely written romantic

courtship, right? Of course. But I believe, whether you're making a sequel or an original film, you cannot presume that the audience has empathy for your characters, and you have to set the pieces back on the board at the beginning of a new film, remind everyone why they like those characters, reestablish relationships, you don't have to explain

everything, but just like emotionally get us back into the world. This film, as you said, gives us no scene where they seem to like each other. No, that is true. His reaction to her pregnancy, that just defines their whole relationship. It's purely like obsessive. Obsessive and like burdened.

Yeah, brooding, brooding, a lot of brooding. Because bits aside, it is not well executed in Attack of the Clones but they devote a lot of screen time to showing the two of them fall in love and wrestle with it. And wrestle with each other. And wrestle with each other. It's two actors trying to show people being in love with each other. And this movie they didn't even fucking bother.

And it's interesting because you said the maternal thing. Yeah. And like there is this thing like he loses his mother right yeah and like this woman is like obviously filling that void well and just in case you didn't get it he brings it up 14 times in this movie too he's like i can't lose you right in this movie because i need you i need to save her anyway and yeah so it's all justification for him to turn to the dark side it's poor justification it's it's shitty it's not handled well i mean he has one bad dream if anything the arc is sort of i mean if anything what the movie underscores to me is that he was going to anyway like and this like because he had a pretty warped world view and she just happened to fit into it yeah and like

i don't the real thing that's maddening is it's less him because he just sucks right from the start. It's her. Like, we never get a sense through her eyes of what she sees in this person. No. What really motivates her. Because she says at the end, as she's dying on that slab, she's like, there's good in him. And it's like, is there? Still, I know.

Yeah. Is there? She's like really holding on to that. She's really holding on to that. Her final words are like, Obi-Wan, I promise you they're still good in him. Right. She has no agency in this film. No.

No. And. Well, no, she does name them. Yeah, that's true. Oh, you're right. That is a big distinction. Where the fuck do those names come from? Right.

She is ready with those names. She didn't know she had twins, but she has two names. Yeah. Loaded. She's dying on a slab. Luke, Leia. She's like hallucinating. Luke, Leia. Luke, Leia, I'm dead. Luke, Leia, he's still good.

I'm dead. That birth scene is like biologically impossible. I'm like, what? So as we say, Natalie Portman, she's a thin, she's a petite woman. She's thin. She's always been thin, but she is. Elfin. Elfin.

She's at her thinnest in this. Tiny. Oh my God, yes. She kind of. Itty bitty, insy winsy. I would say she kind of bounced back a little bit after this. Like, movies like

Your Highness, well, in Black Swan she's pretty skinny too because of the ballerina thing. But she's muscular. Yeah. Like, I feel like she, and in the Thor movie,

she's gotten a little more normal looking again, but this was really, she's so painfully skinny in this movie. She's a little lady in this. And it sucks because she's supposed to be pregnant

with twins. Right. Of all things. She's like running around in some scenes and you're like, that is not a pregnant, and even her face looks like she's drawn to be pregnant with twins. Right. Of all things. She's like running around in some scenes and you're like, that is not a pregnant. And even her face looks like it was drawn. She's drawn.

Now, I forget where Natalie Portman is in life in this moment. Has she graduated from Harvard yet? I think she just had. Right. So she's kind of reentering the world of movies. Yes. Because she kind of kept it pretty chill

during her Star Wars period. Went to school. She didn't do a lot of movies she had the back to back Anywhere But Here and Where the Heart Is right I'm saying which came right after Phantom Menace

and I think those are probably I love Where the Heart Is that's it I always get those two movies confused and it's fucked me up in trivia like three times Where the Heart Is

is the one with Ashley Judd yeah set in the mall and Anywhere But Here is the one written by Steve Jobs' biological sister about their biological mother. Dumb joke, doesn't even track.

Doesn't even track. Doesn't even track. Did you know that Steve Jobs was adopted, but his biological mother had another daughter with the same person, who's Steve Jobs' whole sister, and she was a real wackadoo, and then that daughter grew up to be Mona Simpson

and she wrote a book called Anyone Will Be Here about her relationship with her mother. Got turned into a movie. Whoa. That's so weird. So Susan Sarandon

is playing Steve Jobs' biological mother in Anywhere. So I'm looking at this. Yeah and then she's I mean she's in Star Wars she has the brief scene in Cold Mountain

that we discussed it's so wonderful. She was in Closer right before. Closer and Garden State. Yeah, and Garden State. So she just had her out of Harvard, her Closer, Garden State. She gets nominated for an Oscar that year. You know what I would bet?

This year she's in V for Vendetta and Revenge of the Sith. All our research has showed us. And she's in Free Zone, that Israeli movie. Oh, I haven't seen that. It's okay. All our research has shown us that the Phantom Mass movies were usually filmed two years before they came out, right?

So she probably went on from this to make Garden State. I think Revenge of the Sith was shot in 2003, and then she goes and comes back with Closer, with Garden State, with Free Zone,

which all come out right before in the in-between period. And then she was in her career, Apex, Mr. McGoriam's Wonder Emporium. God, she's so good in that. No, she's not. She's really good in that.

She's really winning in that. No, she's not. She's really good in Hotel Chevalier. In the short movie about Darjeeling Limited? Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm just looking at this. She's in The Other Berlin Girl.

She's in Brothers. She took a while to kind of settle. She was in Parisian. Yeah, and then Black Swan, and then, yeah, anyway. Is she blind and or with a blind person in Parisian Tim? She's with a blind person. She falls in love with a blind person. And then New York Shetam. New York Shetam.

New York I Love You, she plays an Israeli woman with a shaved head. I haven't seen New York I Love You. It's really, really bad. Okay, did you like Parisian Tim? I like maybe a couple good ones. Yeah. I'd say 40% of Parisia Tem is good and like

10% of New York I love you is good. That makes sense. So we're just saying she's painfully skinny in this movie. Right, that was our original point. She's painfully skinny. And it looks like she's pregnant with half a baby, not two babies. It looks like she has a couple limbs. The baby bump looks really bad on her. And then when she's delivering the baby, there's like this

hood over her midsection. She's not pushing? She's just lying there. And there's some sort of doctor that has It's a droid doctor. that has this sort of scoopy tool. These paddle shit appendages. It's horrifying.

It basically has like a forcep hand. Oh my god, it's so horrifying. And we don't see the baby's birth. We kind of just see babies. No, they just pop out

of this hood. She screams a bunch, but she's not pushing in any discernible way. And it's sort of reflecting the dream. It turns out that's what the dream was, right?

It's sort of supposed to bounce back to the dream. You thought she was dying, but she was actually just giving birth. Yeah. No, she was dying. Well, she was, but you know. Well, but this is like a is like a whole this is a chicken egg this is like a gnarly

fucking thing because the dream he has sure looks like just someone in delivery yes and then and then she says i'm pregnant why doesn't he think like oh maybe i'm dreaming about her in labor not like go to darth sidious and be like my wife's gonna die but but this is the point so bailer ghana and obi-wan take her away after she's been choked i know we're going a little out of order here right but we have talked about the choking before and how yeah and it can spend the whole movie trying to rescue padme from this death and then sees her on a ship with obi-wan and he just chokes her out which is i mean it is like the most classic abuser mentality i think like it makes perfect sense from that perspective.

Right, we talked about it. I mean, yeah, we talked about it in the Anakin episode. It's abuse, right? It's the culmination of, It's literally exactly what that is.

He was willing to do anything to save her, but then once he found out that she told someone else, he was willing to kill her out of anger for, Right. I guess so.

Nothing. But then he just blames Obi-Wan immediately, obviously. Well, and he doesn't, as long as he's on her side, I mean, she's on his side, it's this whole, he is a mess up. He's messed up.

Basically, he visits her and he'll just be like, hey, Jedi seem really bad. I just want to give you a heads up, Jedi, you've been really dumb lately. Yeah, so you work for the Senate, right? And she's like, yeah, I guess so. And he's like, yeah, well, they're against the Senate, so I guess you hate the Jedi like I do.

Anyway, I'm going to see you later. I'm going to go kill some kids. Because like later, he's like, i guess so and he's like yeah well they're against the senate so i guess you hate the jedi's like i do anyway i'm gonna see you later i gotta go kill some kids because like later he's like yo pat my heads up senate might suck too why does he care so much about this is something that confused me when like he rolls up and well like they're talking about politics or something and she's like yeah like maybe things aren't really as maybe we're like not fighting for the right people and he's like how could you fucking say that bitch like why he turns right on well he's very uh if you're not with me you're against me you know he's he's really he walks uh but who is he yeah i don't know he walks a tight line there's no end game with anakin look i mean we should say even though we don't touch on this enough he is being brainwashed by like the most

evil wizard of the last thousand years. Who's also his magical father who made him out of air. So, you know, I guess that's part of the problem here, right? You do have this comically evil man manipulating him. We keep saying Anakin's such a jerk, and it's like there is a guy who's like, ah, ha, ha, ha, you know. Yeah, but you know- Right next to him. We keep saying, like, Anakin's such a jerk and it's like, there is a guy who's like, ah, ha, ha, ha, you know. Yeah, but, you know, the argument against that is the first scene

where she tells him that she's pregnant, which is before he started really talking to Palpatine and he's still a fucking bummer. Yeah, he's a lug lug. He's a loser. And he goes like,

oh my god, pancake. Oh my god, pancake. Oh my god, pancake. It's his pet name for her, pancake. Oh my god, Padme. Pancake Amidalacake. It's his pet name for it, Pancake. Oh my God, Padme. Pancake Amidala. Padme, that's the best news I ever heard.

I'm so happy. I don't even know what, what are you looking at right now, Ben? I'm going to start calling your, Pancake Amidala, Pancake Amidala. There is this trope, well known, especially in genre works.

And in comic books, that's fridging women. Oh, yeah, yeah. Fridged women. Yeah, girl in a refrigerator. Right, which I think the original- Green Lantern. Right, it was Green Lantern. His wife, he found her dead.

I think Kyle Rayner's girlfriend, I think, just got killed and stuffed into her refrigerator. Right, and he sees her dead, and it's like, that's the infamous- The 90s, people! People got killed, it was interesting and dramatic! It's a movie? No, it's a comic's the 90s people people got killed it was interesting and dramatic it's a movie or it's in the comic in the comic books it was seen as like but yeah like it was a reflection of this like kind of crappy trend in genre story but it became like the big character motivator for the next year or two was like everything was about avenging the death of the girlfriend right and and the trope is setting up a female character only to have her die or be kidnapped or something to motivate the male character to do something.

To put her through horrible, horrible circumstances that the male character is something to fight against. And then the writer's like, but it's Shakespearean. They always have like, what do you mean? It's classic. Yeah. It's beyond the damsel in distress. It's like, you know, someone who is not in distress at the beginning suffering something so that the male character can become more heroic ultimately or whatever.

And I think the crucial thing is like for the male character. Yeah, it's for the male character. The real problem with Amidala is that she has no interiority. She has like no perspective in this entire thing. She has babies in her. She has, right.

Yeah, Sonia, correction. But in the first movie, she does. That's what's so annoying. Yeah, in the first movie, she does. In the second movie so annoying. In the first movie she does, in the second movie you know. I'd say she does still in the second. A little less maybe, but you know. And one of the reasons is because the first movie passes the Bechdel test. Do you want to talk about it?

Oh yeah, let's talk about it. First movie definitely passes the Bechdel test. It is interesting because it's a lot of you know, sort of pad me talking to herself. In a weird sort of way. But it is like her closest advisor. Oh yeah, all women. God, I sound like the worst parody

of a feminist today. Oh, we're gonna get gamer-gated. Yeah. We're gonna get gamer-gated. Gamer-gate. I just want to remind you that this is the worst parody of a podcast so you can't this is we don't have much space to fall. I'll take it. No, I mean, I really was brought in as like the feminist critic of Padme Amidala today

or whatever. But like, I do think these things are interesting, but also I, you know, I'm not as careful as I seem. It's laziness, right? George Lucas is a lazy writer more than anything else. And so these kind of lazy things happen. Right. And even these, like what we, what I think of as even just like the lowest bar or the first bar of like critique, like social justice, feminist critique.

They apply. They start to apply because this is such a lazy narrative, like in so many ways. It's so insulting, honestly, to not not just the female viewers, to all of the viewers. This whole notion of like an origin story. And that's why people get mad, I think, because it's like it's it's a weak justification for a lot of things well i also think this is like the only instance i have ever seen of pre-fridging where like most movies it is a male character discovers a horrible thing that has befallen a female character and then reacts to that right and this is a male character anticipates something terrible is going to happen right and then in the

process causes that terrible thing to happen. Well, it's very mythological, actually. Yeah, right. It's very Greek. It's very Greek. Someone's always giving some sort of horrible prophecy. Oedipus is trying to get around the prophecy and oh boy, does he fuck up.

He's going to fuck them up. But you can never thwart a prophecy. Just learn that, heroes. You just can't. That is true. It just is annoying. Well, and not to keep on going in circles. They don't add anything to that. Can I ask a somewhat secondary question?

How do you guys feel about the introduction of Bail Organa into this story? And where it ends up with like him taking the girl. He's in Attack of the Clones. Right, right, right. Very briefly. But he like is more integrated. Although I think we were hoping he'd be even,

he still kind of is just sort of like, hello, I'm Bail Organa. He's completely random. He's like, let's rescue one of the characters. Let's bring her in. That seems to be his entire purpose. Right.

And I also argue that some of the stuff that he does in this film feels like the stuff that Padme would have been doing in the movie. If that makes any sense. Right. And I also argue that some of the stuff that he does in this film feels like the stuff that Padme would have been doing in the movie, if that makes any sense. Yeah. You know? Yeah, totally. Like, the role he occupies as, like, a senator, as, like, a lone voice of

reason in a crumbling democracy, I understand the idea is sort of to give her, like, an ally. Right. But he ends up doing all the active things that she doesn't. Yeah. Even just like going back to the Jedi Council trying to save them all that sort of stuff

it's like. I want to say something about Bail Workout. Please. And I hate bits. I hate bits. Are you going to say Jimmy Smits?

No I love Jimmy Smits. I hate bits and I love Jimmy Smits. Hate bits love Smits. Pro bits anti-Smits. No fucking I flipped it. Oh fuck.

Oh no now we're proven anti-bits pro smiths anti-bits pro smiths anyway so this movie has a lot of cgi correct has a lot of crappy set design as a result i can't wait to hear it it's got pillars there's that scene with the pillars i've mentioned it so many times on this podcast but when the pregnancy is announced they're in this room that's just infinite pillars. It's just a copy paste of pillars. There's some things where you're like, well, come on, guys. Jimmy Smits drives a ship.

The Organa people have this ship. The Organa-mobile. Jimmy Smits. Jimmy Smits ship. The Jimmy ship. We're pro-Smits. God damn it. Go on, go on, go on.

It is the greatest set they have had in any of these movies. The ship itself? Yes. It's got this crazy white interior. It is the greatest set they have had in any of these movies. The ship itself? Yes. It's got this crazy white interior. It's really minimal and simple. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I do. You only see it for one minute at the end of the movie.

Wait. It's called, what the hell is the ship called? But which one? I'm sorry, I don't even remember which one it is. Jimmy Smith's ship. Jimmy Smith, if I start back. It's a huge ship. We're not talking like a little cruise. No, it's a big ship. It's, it's, Jimmy Smith, if I search that. It's Organa, what's it, what's it? It's a huge ship.

We're not talking like a little cruise. No, it's a huge ship. He's in. Bail Organa spaceship interior. This is what's being Googled right now. Do you guys not know what I'm talking about? No,

I do know what you're talking about. I have no clue. I do know what you're talking about. I'm going to try to find the scene where it happened. Here. Heroes, Heroes Regroup. That's it.

The Tontiff 4. What, are we watching it now? Yeah, it's this thing. Oh, I watched this. The ship on the outside kind of looks like a wiener. The blockade runner, that's what it's called.

It looks like a wiener on the outside, we have to say. It's long and it's got protruding top and then it's sort of- It's got wings. It's got- It's got ball wings. Oh, it's ball wings. It's that thing. Oh, got it.

It has like a bunch of circular engines. It looks very strange. We see inside this thing briefly. Are we going to see inside it now? And- Is it this thing? No, we going to see inside it now? And... Is it this thing? No, no. Watch. We're about to see it. Who's this? Is this Obi-Wan docking with it?

Yeah, I think so. And that ship has a nice interior too, I want to say. I liked it. Look at this interior. Look at this. It's a real set. It's fantastic. That's a great scene. It feels like a definable place.

Right. Okay, can I? And it has the right aesthetic. A lot of the stuff on Coruscant doesn't feel right. And there's one other time the movie does this, and I hate bits. I hate them. We don't like bits.

And it's at the end when Vader and Palpatine and some other guy are hanging out on an Imperial cruiser, and they're looking out at the stars, at this thing being built, killer planet whatever it's called that is also a great set with this like corridor that he walks down and there's all these people like working in the pit below him and you sort of get the idea that like

the empire is sort of brushing away all the sort of like art you know the gold and the lavish of the old era you're talking about the killer star the killer star death planet I the killer star, death planet. I also hate bits. It doesn't even need repeating. I hate both of you so much.

The other thing I think, because I'm looking at this design, right? Look at this. No one can see what we're talking about. This is a practical set. It's a white hallway. There's some stuff on the walls, but it looks like the real inside of a military vehicle. Of a submarine or something. There's a basis in reality.

It's not just business. It's not just ornate design for design's sake. Right. And it is, it's practical. Yeah. And it's clean. Yeah. It's minimalistic.

There's not all this chaos. They had to build this. Do you know what this kind of reminds me of? What? In a very primal way. What? And I hate bits. I'm just going to restate this.

You know, because I know. Fuck bits. People are saying, oh, this is getting so dry now. This is getting so dry. But it's because we hate bits that we're going to talk very dryly about all this. The Darth Vader design. Honestly, there's a classicism. Yeah, exactly.

To that, to the killer star, to the interior of this ship. They all look fucking. They're intelligently, elegantly designed. They're tactile. They're great. Love it. Anyway. Good sidebar. We were talking about BailorCon. I hate both of you so much.

Sonia, thank you so much for being on the show. We love you, Sonia, and we love Bits. I mean, we hate Bits. I mean, we hate Bits, but we do love Jimmy Smits. Pro Smits, anti-Bits. How do you feel about Jimmy Smits? Um, I... Now, he's very handsome. Of course he's very handsome. anti-bits. How do you feel about Jimmy Smith?

He's very handsome. Of course he's very handsome. Very charming. We've talked about this a lot. I feel like he's cast almost as just like, here's the most stable man in the galaxy, basically. Here's a real straight out. So I can't... Be honest. This is a Pro Smiths podcast, but we'll

take any opinions. I wish that what I really wish had happened is that what I really wish had happened is that instead of Leia being randomly adopted by Bail Organa, that there maybe

was some actual relationship that developed between Padme and Bail Organa. Sure. That's sort of There's a lot of unspoken, like we're just supposed to assume like, oh, these two are Senate allies or whatever. Right. I sort of,

I had always imagined that it would end that way with that. Here's how I wanted this movie to end. Sort of going off this. Okay. Why doesn't Padme survive? Why doesn't she survive? Because it would be kind of cool for Padme to pull out of that. Yeah.

After being choked out by Anakin, the same thing after having the babies and be like, I still think there's good in him, but we've lost him. Right. And we have to start organizing against him. And now we have to start,

yeah, exactly. You know? It would have been a very strong thing to do. Even if she has to send her kids away, you know, to protect them.

That's the thing. I think she could give the kids away to protect them. But still be alive. Like, it just sucks that she has such a pathetic end after these three movies. It also is weird that Luke gets sent to where he does.

Well, yeah. We talked about it a little bit in the last episode. We could talk about it again. It doesn't feel like the safest place. Where do you have any human attachment, Anakin? I don't know. Really just tattooing where I'm from and that's it. The one place.

Why would you send him to, well, anyway. The only connection yeah it's a lot he's never gonna fucking look for bail or gana like yeah it was it was a little frustrating i mean i i get it dovetails with just uh you know when when when these movies were coming out you know and if you're a fan you're interested and they announce all the casting so they announce like who's gonna be in it and like da da da interested. And they announce all the castings. So they announce, like, who's going to be in it. And, like, da-da-da-da-da. And you have all the elements in your head. And it's sort of like, you know, David, it's a lot like when we would talk about, like, the Game of Thrones season.

Like, we were talking about the Game of Thrones season finale this time. And it's like you know who's in it. And you know it's going to be there. And you construct this finale in your head with all of those parts. That is so much better than what they come up with because you're like oh well they could do this and she does this. It's a problem with payoff. It's a problem with like yeah.

But I mean it's what but like the thing is this is no one's vision. This is like literally not even no it's not. Not even George Lucas showed up to this movie is what I'm trying to say. We've been saying that this movie he does seem to be like, I don't know. We just kind of have to make sure everyone

fits here. Yeah, he wants everyone in a certain spot at the end, but yeah. He makes a lot of very lazy story decisions. I think he was kind of a weekend warrior on this one. You know? Fighting some of the battles and outsourcing them to others. So what did you guys think of the parallel with Padme going to the hospital ship

and Anakin going to become Vader? Because that is nicely sort of paralleled. In a way that I wasn't really expecting from this. Yeah, I forgot about that. And she goes to die and create life and he goes to become a horrible cyborg.

To live, but at what cost? And yell no. No. No. Can I sidebar for this for a second? I know we talked about the no in the past, but I didn't really realize the moment is he's given the bad news, right?

Then he breaks free of the chains. He forces the room. He takes five steps forward and then says no. Yeah. So for someone to say no in that kind of environment, you think it would just be a primal reaction. Your wife is dead.

No! She tells him, your wife is dead. And then he goes like, oh. Breaks the chains, steps forward a little bit, gets in a position,

shakes his arms out, gets limber. And then, like people always rag on the no moment. I think it's because it feels so forced and artificial because it's not just, like. It's, like, grafted into the moment.

People do embarrassing emotional things. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. You know? But it's, like, it has to play in a certain rhythm where it really does feel like this is. I would love to see George Lucas talk about that. Yeah. Like, I'd love to see him admit some fault and maybe say, like, yeah, you know, like, that scene maybe could have played a little better.

Like now that I watch it, maybe the no seems a little weird. It would be great if we could talk to George Lucas. Could you imagine if we got to sit down with him? Hey George, you want to be on the show? Email us. I'm DavidLSims at gmail.com. Let's sort this out. Griffin and David present at gmail.com.

George Lucas, if you're interested, we've been ragging on you a lot. If you want to come on and defend yourself, we would happily have you on an episode. Yeah. Just keep that out there. If he is on the show, can you please ask him if his nickname has ever been Georgie Porch? Georgie Porch.

Yeah, Georgie Porch. That's his nickname on this one. Let's talk about the actual, no bits. Let's talk about the actual death. Okay? Oh, yeah. You really want to talk about it.

This is a big thing. You're not really hung up on this. It's shitty. It is shitty. It is shitty. So, when Anakin reveals to her, all her suspicions are correct, right? Yeah, he's been murdering children.

He's working for the dark side. He exterminated a bunch of Jedi. She goes like, Anakin, what are you talking about? How do you... Anakin, I don't... And she... I'm sorry she she manifests the first rejection of like the first like oh wait i'm a person that isn't in love with like that isn't totally just this person's yes wacky yes she gets a little disillusioned and i appreciate your

apology because i was really connected emotionally to that performance and it's gonna take me another second to get back into it i under you made a good points on it and I'm glad you did, but I just... No offense, come on. The train was running. Okay, she goes... She has a line I think that you're trying to get to. You're breaking my heart, Anakin. There it is.

Now it's this very, very earnest... I actually kind of like the way she delivers it. She's a pretty good actress. Right? I think given that line on the page... She's bad in the movie, but she's pretty good. Yeah, but I think given that line on the page, having to deliver that line, I think she makes a kind of interesting choice, which is to really deliver it as like a girl caught up in a romantic fantasy that's now crumbling around her. She had this very simple idea of like wanting to be together and be happy with him.

And she's now reduced to like, you know, breaking my heart is like this very child like notion of like literally a heart being broken in twain or whatever um she says that he chokes her Obi-Wan says stop right she's lying there perfectly she's in a perfect line but it's like literally when they cut to her

on the ground her arms are still held out as if she was bracing the fall um Obi-Wan takes her back on the ground, her arms are still held out as if she was bracing the fall. Obi-Wan takes her back on the ship, brings her to Bail Organa's place. He has the droid with the clasped hands. Wait, does Obi-Wan take her back on the ship? I want to say C-3PO and R2

do. Is this a crazy thing? Obi-Wan's on the ship with them, definitely, but it might be C-3PO and R2-D2 physically take her? Obi-Wan's on the ship with them, definitely. But it might be C-3PO and R2-D2 physically take her. Right, because she's there. Obi-Wan checks her pulse or something. Then they go fight. And then they come back and both of the droids are like whistling a bunch.

They're like, oh my god, something's happened. You gotta do a thing. They whistle away. He's like, okay. And he goes inside the ship. Yeah, because I think they get her to a hospital ship. It's not like their ship is a hospital ship. Yeah, they have to fly her to.

And that's where Yoda and Bail Organa are. Right, I think that's on Bail Organa's planet. His fantastic ship. On his ship. They use his fantastic ship to get to his planet where the hospital is, I believe. It's hard to keep track of this movie. It's not a planet? No, it's not a ship, bro. Is it?

Yeah. Who knows? I thought the thing with the crater. This honestly doesn't matter. Okay. That's a good point. Genuinely impossible to follow. But somehow okay. That's a good point. Genuinely impossible to follow.

But somehow she gets to a hospital. Yes. Right? Far away from Anakin. In answer to your question, Sonia, I do like

paralleling those two actions against each other. I wish for someone like George who talks so much about trying to create like visual repetition, circular imagery throughout the films.

They're constructed in very different ways. They're cutting back and forth between the two. And I think he could have, from a nerdy filmmaking perspective, really created visual contrast and similarities between the two things. Whereas now it's just two actions being presented, shot in very different ways. But delivery room, the robot comes out. She hasn't given birth to one, even one of the babies yet, right? This is true.

And the robot comes out with his little clasped hands. He's got kind of like sad face. He looks a little bit like WALL-E. Yeah, he has these droopy WALL-E eyes. Yeah, now that I think about it. It would be funny though if he was a doctor and he had to like load like a frowny face emoji. You know, like, but then if he had good news, he would load like a happy, you know. I was going to say, do you think they have a bad news robot and a good news robot?

Yeah, they might. Like a Patch Adams robot. The other one waves his arms around. And he has big goofy eyes. And this one has sad eyes and he clasps his hands. But he goes, it's fascinating. Medically, she's in perfect condition. I'm paraphrasing here, but this is really what he said.

There's nothing we can, this is really wrong with her. He goes, it's weird. Medically, she's in perfect condition. But yet she seems to be, we seem to be losing her. It's almost as if she has lost the will to live. She delivers two babies, which is a very taxing physical act. Not easy. Although, it seems easy, so maybe there's some technology.

Yeah, they use the scoop arms and a vacuum. I don't even know what's happening under that hood. That is true. My point is, within the world that we know, perhaps not Georgie Porgy's Phantom Menace world, but within the world we know, it is very difficult to have a baby, to physically deliver a baby. It's a memorable day when it happens.

I think it's usually like, this was quite a day. Good or bad, you remember it. Yeah. And two in a row. Two in a row. Good or bad, you remember it. Yeah. And two in a row. Two in a row. Two in a row. Pretty big.

Not easy. In olden times, and let's not forget that Revenge of the Sith is a period piece. It is a period film, right? In olden times, many women would not survive childbirth. Sure. And they would not go, I guess she has lost the will to live.

They'd go, hey, guess what? Delivering babies is really tough. And if you're even slightly hobbled when you start doing it, it might kill you. Why doesn't the doctor say like, yeah, you know, it seems like she has just been choked and assaulted by

an extremely powerful Jedi. Did that happen recently? That would help explain all of this. Did she? I mean, they're making dying of a broken heart into a real thing. But your point is, from a story perspective, she is in a weakened physical state,

did not know she had two babies within her, and now has to deliver both at the same time. That might kill someone in her position, especially someone as slight as she is to begin with. She's undernourished. Right. Clearly she'd never been to a gynecologist because she didn't know she had two babies inside her the whole time. And it was in secret. Maybe it's because it was a secret

pregnancy. Yeah. That must be why. Although she could have just bought this doctor, right? He's a robot. Just go to like Sears and get a doctor robot. That's a really good point. I actually was wondering if they were like going to insist on a life form inspecting her at some point, like a human doctor even. She is a human.

She is a human. Maybe she would need, but this is what you just outsourced medical science to droids. I think so. I mean, are you saying it's sort of like how at the TSA checkpoint you could be like, I want to be patted down by someone. She's like, excuse me, a human should deliver these human babies I mean, I think it's because droids don't know what living, like how can a like it's so odd that a droid delivers

that's a little offensive if I can chime in here you're saying no droid can be a human doctor ever? no, wait a second though patriarchy, Sonia, Jesus Christ but wait we can't get into the droids because they don't make sense. It's actually really complicated.

This movie does not explain droids. There actually is like an extended universe arc that's about like whether or not the droids are oppressed, which is kind of interesting. I'm sure. Yeah. Sounds interesting. Maybe should have included it in one of these three movies. Movies have a million droid robots that get chopped into pieces. Oh, yeah.

All the time. Oh, yeah. You got to tap out there, David. Do they have sentience? Are they scared the moment before they're cleft in twain? Mm-hmm. Padme's dying because she's lost the will to live. Yeah, she has a broken heart.

She's lost the will to live. Diagnosis. And she dies. She just expires. We can create our own It is the most boring death scene. It is the most garbage, boring death scene. She literally just stops being alive. There isn't even, yeah.

It's like she's been unplugged. There isn't even blood. There isn't even a reference to the grueling physical act that she has gone through. Or even the fact that she was choked, like forced choked, like half to death or whatever. She's just like, oh, now I'm sad. But when they cut to her right after the doctor's like,

it's like she's just lost the will to live. They cut to her delivering the babies. She seems in pain because she's pushing out two babies. She does not appear to be dying. She makes it through the delivery kind of okay. Yeah. And then immediately afterwards dies. And it sucks because it's like she has two babies.

She wouldn't see those babies and be like, oh, new will to live. Look. Look, I have children. There is no concept also of like the actual process of birth. Like I feel like I should make that clear. I just want to reiterate. I think we've. It makes literally no sense whatsoever no okay and also she uses her final words to like as you said offered sort of an abused partner's defense

of like you don't understand he's not like that with me except he is that one time um also they're operating on her but it's guys i love look look have a lot to say. Look, like a lot of things in this movie and in this series, it's a little half-assed. He has the general idea down. Anakin betrays her. She has the babies and dies in childbirth. But he doesn't go into any detail.

And this is a problem he has all the time. It's like, the Jedi's get wiped out by the clone troopers. We programmed a thing in their brains. I don't know. They wipe them out. Like, you know, and like, let's have a few shots of Jedis getting killed. And then you get the picture. There's no, you know, it's all like, hey, I'm tying it up. See, I tied it up.

Great. Moving. Next on. You know. Now, here's the thing. I keep on picking up on every time I rewatch it. And I don't know if I'm crazy. Okay.

You're crazy, Griffin. Well, we know that. I mean, I know I'm crazy in general. Especially for rewatching this I don't know if I'm crazy okay you're crazy Griffin well we know that I mean I know I'm crazy in general especially for rewatching this movie that many times I'm such a lunatic with regards to this

one thread that I might be imagining thread a thread okay um when Anakin first gets the first

premonition dream of Padme dying the like shots he sees are Padme screaming in agony and then Obi-Wan being like, it's okay. It's okay. You're going to make it. And I remember seeing this movie for the first time being like, oh, is he putting

together like, there's something weird about the fact that Obi-Wan is there consoling her when she's dying? Is there like a jealousy element? There's the scene where Obi-Wan goes to see Padme to warn her of what's going on and they decide to both hitch over to Mustafar

and try to like figure out what's going on. And I do feel like the first time I rewatched it, I thought there was a weird kind of romantic tension between the two of them. It felt like there was some sort of chemistry. Upon re-watching it again this morning, I now think that perhaps it is just seeing two good actors play off each other. Well, and actual care and affection, even if it's not necessarily romantic, being expressed

by these actors, as you say. That all the Anakin-Pat Macy-ants have been so devoid of any sort of passion in this film, and that also, Ewan McGregor's a good actor, Natalie Portman's a good actor, Hayden Christensen's not good. Most of the scenes that both of them have in this film are either playing off of computer robots

or Hayden Christensen. And so this one scene that the two of them are in together, it's not like a great scene of acting, but you're like, oh, one character's saying something and the other person's

reacting to it emotionally and making choices. On this point, though, another thing, these are also the two rational characters in this movie cycle. Yes.

And they rarely interact. And that scene is like a nice reprieve. And they are the two level-headed ones. When everything's going to shit, they're like, oh my god, this is crazy.

And it's not like where it's Yoda, where you're like, Yoda, why didn't you do anything? And he's like, you know, or Anakin or Palpatine. Like, you know,

these two are the two pretty smart guys who are not too emotional about shit. Like, they're normal. Wait, we're talking about Amidala as one of them. Yeah. Padme and Obi-Wan. Yeah.

And I don't think it's a great scene, but every time I get to it in the rewatch, I like feel relaxed and I'm like, this just has a nice vibe don't think it's a great scene, but every time I get to it in the rewatch, I feel relaxed, and I'm like, this just has a nice vibe to it. It's a good scene. And I kind of want to ship the two of them, only because I'm like, these two deserve each other.

Obi-Wan seems really lonely. This used to be a threat. People used to think this was going to be a thing. I remember with Attack of the Clones, they were like, how is this going to resolve? Is Obi-Wan going to get in the middle of this? And then it never really pays off and this is sort of what I was saying about Bail Organa the other ship is that I

that's a ship? well it's a ship in the sense that they're he's got a great ship adopted parents or something like that right yes yes he's got a great ship yeah I mean it's you know like you expect that we're good

I got a good piece of Sonia like you expect that. We're good. There was a good, I got a good piece of Sonia spit right on my forehead. We're good. Far worse things have happened on this podcast. You sort of expect that Padme's affections will shift. You sort of expect that she will fall in love with someone else or like that some other affection will. And even if that were to happen, as you say, post the movie, like if she survives and then like moves on or something. But instead, she like has to die with that relationship. Yeah.

I also think he could have done something where because we keep on saying like the moment where Anakin just fucking turns, starts choking her out, makes so little sense. It's very frustrating. For everything that's been built up. He has the dream where he sees her Obi-Wan by her side while she dies. Griffin, we've done this so many times now. He doesn't take the conversation. She gets off the ship.

She's trying to reason with him and then Obi-Wan walks off. Don't you think the smart thing was like his anger is you told Obi-Wan about this? I thought you trusted me. I feel like there would be more reason for her to get angry and lash out at her if he thought

suddenly like wait why are the two of you together? I had the two of you together in my dream are the two of you sleeping together behind my back? You're just saying they should have maybe gone with a different motivation. But you also are just mad at the way that scene plays out just because it's so inexplicable. So angry. But it kind of would make more sense also for Anakin from a character perspective at that point who is now becoming so

paranoid about everyone around him right to be like everyone's teaming up against me right you don't love me anymore and i wonder if infidelity would have just been too complex like for this poor george well for george who i think is really pitching this movie at six year olds like i don't that's fair theoretically theoretically this movie's six-year-olds. Like, I don't think... That's fair. Theoretically. Theoretically. This movie's pitched a little up, but yeah. I mean, obviously, I think that one of the things that's so perplexing to him is that other people like it, but he's always, like, he's painting with these very broad strokes,

and so he can't have infidelity. Like, he can't... There's no room for it in his brain. I don't know. No, that's a fair point. I mean, and to go back to the dream, I mean, I do think it's interesting because i did re-watch that scene too i mean dream sequences and film i mean especially

in something like this where they're not really given the sort of like david chase treatment of like real you know like really lived in there's like an elephant and annette benning is there that'd be great right no it's amazing right um this is like there's like a few images and he wakes up and clearly like the emotional like what makes a dream compelling is that there are some emotions going on with the with the music video in your head that makes you you know that's what keeps you up at night whatever um and he is sort of trying to convey like those emotions when he wakes up so i've never really hewed too close to what his actual images are because i is sort of trying to convey those emotions when he wakes up. So I've never really hewed too close to what his actual images are. Because I've sort of been like, okay, what really matters is how Anakin felt about this.

But also, I wonder if maybe the reason that he then chokes Amidala out is just because George Lucas is like, no, he's bad. He's now bad. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. There's no nuance to it. It's just now he's bad, now he's bad. And there isn't. There is no nuance to it. I don't know. What's on your phone, Griffin? I want to read. We had a listener,

Anna Maria, sent in a theory, not her own theory, but she said, this is interesting. Have you read this? Do you know about this? And this is, I will not read this entire thing. Please do not. But this guy wrote a whole piece on saying, you know, people should un-revenge of the Sith.

Who is this guy? Is this some red guy? His name is Joseph Tavano, okay? Editorial, Padme Didn't Die of a Broken Heart. Oh. I find it odd that one of the most pivotal mysterious moments of Star Wars saga is discussed infrequently when it is the case is closed. People who come

to the same wrong conclusion die. Of course we talk about the end of Vengeance one of my all time favorite films. Oh dear. Oh dear. I haven't been counting but I've seen this movie 500 times and I'm still finding new things to consider. Wait wait he hasn't been counting but he has seen it 500 times. On the nugget. If you watch a movie that many times you're going to invent things to consider. Wait, wait, he hasn't been counting, but he has seen it 500 times.

On the nugget. If you watch a movie that many times, you're going to invent things about it. Exactly. Anyway. The final hour of this movie is densely packed with information, but it doesn't hold your hand.

Where a lesser film... That is... Oh my God. ...would have wrapped things up with an explosive... Explosive... All right. Griffin, what's his theory?

Voice over registers demands that viewers watch how things unfold and ask the viewer to put the pieces together themselves. Unfortunately, not everyone has put together the proper way. Okay. So his argument is, point by point, I'm just going to paraphrase at this point. I'm not going to read it. Just real paraphrasing.

Yes. I had to read his exact words to condemn him before I start sharing his theory. One is that the film never says that she dies of a broken heart. No, he doesn't. He says, Anakin, you're breaking my heart. And then the robot says she's lost the will to live. Yeah. But we're not idiots, and we can put one and one together. That's the implication.

What's number two? Number two is he says it wasn't the choke that killed her. Okay. Okay. Because it was brief enough, this and that. Whatever. Whatever. Number three.

Those babies could have been brain dead, though. Point number three. Yeah, maybe they're real stupid. Point number three, Point number three. He goes, droids don't know squat about the force. He's saying because droids

are mechanical and they pick up on... Oh my God, so he's doing the droid truther doctor thing too. Droid truther. He is. Okay, so droids,

but who cares? Yes, all droids. So are you... Hashtag yes, all droids. He's saying that droids would not be able to pick up on the force. And so medically, she's completely healthy for some reason.

We can't explain we're losing her. We don't know why she lost the will to live. He claims that the reason they can't pick up on is the force. And that Palpatine and talking about being able to use the force to extend people's lives and to end them has been killing Padme from a distance so that he could put the machinations in place to make Anakin fulfill his destiny. I agree. I think it's a dumb theory. Because if he could do that, he'd do it all the time.

Exactly. Like, what are you talking about? Okay. That aside, I don't know if that's true. One of the things that's interesting is that when Anakin wakes up as Darth Vader, that Palpatine knows that Padme is dead. Yeah. And I have had questions about that.

This is the big linchpin of this guy's argument. He goes, why would Palpatine know that? How could he know that? He just immediately knows that. It's because Palpatine killed her. It's because Palpatine can turn the Force into life and can pull life out through the Force, and that these droids who are so binary

would look at it and go, we don't know how to explain it. She's losing the will to live. And then in reality, he's sucking it out of her so know how to explain it. She's losing the will to live. And then in reality, he's sucking it out of her so that he can make Anakin. You know, that would be interesting if it was in the movie. I agree. I totally, yeah.

I might buy into that if it was in the movie. I feel like you would have to make the argument that somehow, like, Anakin, like, Amidala is more susceptible to this force sucking thing than the average person and then maybe you could make that whole argument you're saying it would need to have been set up in any way by this film in order to work let's not get crazy um yeah and i also i mean this guy's saying oh well the last 30 minutes are so misinterpreted but they're actually really dense and they're not holding your hand every other moment of the last two and a half

movies have been holding your hand so much this movie has no subtext i hate fan theories me too i hate them i hate fan theories merchandise spotlight yay i was about to set that up it's time merchandise spotlight uh i was so mad about the merchandise spotlight last time and now i'm really excited you want it um this is this is just a small one i found two uh i want to i want to go in a different direction because a lot of toys and two. I want to go in a different direction. Okay. Because I have a lot of toys and stuff. I want to go in a different direction.

Kellogg's Company. Sure. Created some food products. Sure. Cereal. All right. The cereal was kind of boring. It was just like, you know.

Sith-like. Cheerios and then marshmallows, but the marshmallows didn't look very good. So I got two items here. One is Revenge of the Sith fruit snacks. Nice. Gummy fruit snacks, okay? So they have six shapes. Yeah.

Just guess. I want you to guess. Darth Vader helmet. What? Stormtrooper helmet? Clone trooper helmet. I don't know what you're talking about, stormtrooper. Oh, yeah, whatever.

Yeah. Clone trooper helmet. Lightsaber? Nope. Ship. What are the ships? They're all characters. I'll give you that hint. They're all characters. Yoda head. Yes. Okay. Lightsaber? Nope. Ship. What are the ships? They're all characters. I'll give you that hint.

They're all characters. Yoda head. Yes. Okay. Yeah, good thinking. Obi-Wan? Nope. Yeah, that'd be weird.

Jar Jar? Nope. Grievous? No, they're all Revenge of the Sith characters. I'll give you that hint. No, I was saying that in response to Jar Jar, but I know he's in a first second fucking crying at Padme's funeral. He's flopping around.

Behind Academy Award nominee Keisha Castle-Hughes. I think he's also flopping when Chancellor gets back. Yeah, I think you're right. I don't know, Griffin. Is Palpatine one of them? No. How could Palpatine be one of them? Oh, C-3PO and R2.

Correct. What do you think the sixth one would be? I think it's going to be something really weird and you're excited to tell us. Yeah. That fucking Wookiee. Not harmful. We talked about this last week. How weird it is.

But goddamn Chewbacca. Yoda is so nice to this random Wookiee called Chewbacca. Who's he paying off to get this kind of billing? I bet he's the fucking fourth billed in this movie. He's high billed in this movie. If that, he's barely eating it. He's barely eating it. He doesn't do anything. What kid wants

to eat Chewbacca? What kid remembers Chewbacca? What flavor is Chewbacca? Chewbacca appears to be orange. Mmm, delicious. I want to see this. And C-3PO is lemon. R2 is like a blueberry. C-3PO should have been blueberry and R2 should have been lemon because R2 is very sour. Oh, David.

You cad, you. I cannot believe you just said that. How hard is it, do you think, it is to make a black gummy bear? Because I would like to see that. A Vader. Oh, yeah, because we should mention that Vader is blue rather than being black.

He could be a black cherry or something, right? Yeah. Blackberry. There's black licorice, guys. And then the clone trooper is grape. It's purple. Anyway, what's the other mission in the spotlight? Second item.

So this is a very tragic film, as we know. Yeah. It ends in misery. A once innocent boy filled with promise and potential. We know how the movie ends, Griffin. Love in his life. Sand, gritty, hot. Gets into a fight with his best friend and mentor

on a lava planet. Puts him to the lava planet gets his legs cut off good death lava plant's the same site where he chokes his wife which then ceases kills her will to live right? how do we make a fun food that ties into that? what about

lava berry plop tarts two episodes my brain's exploding frosted lava berry explosion with just Darth Vader's Berry plop tarts. Plop tarts. Pop tarts. Two episodes. My brain's exploding. Frosted lava berry explosion. With just Darth Vader's big helmet on it. Yeah, with Darth Vader's big helmet. He's just, oh my God.

Consume the fires that consumed me. Okay, this is, guys, it's a box. We're just looking at a picture of a Pop-Tarts box. It's true. Very brightly colored. The Pop-Tarts are bright pink. Yeah. Vader's kind of leaning in. With yellow sprinklers

and then yes, Darth Vader's just fucking looming. He's got like kind of a sitcom tilt. He's got this tilt and he just looks like Can I have one of those?

He is going to devour your soul. Like, limited edition Star Wars Pop-Tarts frosted lava berry explosion. I can't read. What does this say?

With something something filling. What does that say? You know, raspberry or whatever. It's with wild berry filling. I can't read. What does this say? With something something filling. What does that say? You know, raspberry or whatever. It's with wild berry filling. Wild berry? It's got wild berry filling. I think we're lava berry filling.

I don't know. Oh, wait, so is the, oh, the lava berries is the lava of the pits. Yeah. Oh my God. Most Pop-Tarts are like one color on the outside

and then like the frosting and then the inside filling. And this is like all pink. Like the crust is pink. Lava berry explosion. The frosting and then the inside filling and this is like all pink like the crust is pink explosion the frosting's pink the filling is pink and then their little flex relive the loss of your mortal body and the betrayal of yeah i mean of course absolutely do you know why he looks so threatening here in the box because he's furious they're making light of the death of everything he once was in a fucking breakfast snack. Also because his head is like a skull

with two giant eyes, but fair enough. What I also appreciate is the Pop-Tarts is like a pop secret reference here to his paternity being a thing. He didn't know he was a pop. He didn't know he was a pop. He didn't know

he was a double pop. Double pop. Griffin, the Inside Out app is on your front page of apps? I play it all the time. It's a game. What kind of a game is it?

Is it like Bubble Bobble? Yeah, where you have to match up the colors? Yeah, you have to match up memory. It's like Snood. Yeah,

I'm obsessed with it. Inside Out's a great movie. It makes me feel good about people. Inside Out's a wonderful movie. I haven't seen it yet. You should see it. I know,

I haven't seen anything. It's a terrific movie. Probably in my top five of people. Inside Out's a wonderful movie. I haven't seen it yet. You should see it. I know. I haven't seen anything. It's a terrific movie. Probably in my top five of the year. Hey, don't say that, Sonya. You have seen something. You've seen Star Wars Episode III, Revenge of the Sith. And thank you for re-watching parts of this movie. Thank you guys for having me.

Hey, Benny. What's up? Did you have something you wanted to do? Well, it was kind of a weird tangent I went off on. You were clicking around. Yeah. Well, with the last episode, when we discussed just one particular character,

it was Palpatine's episode. I had suggested, you know, who else would you have liked to have seen play this character? We went off talking about Al Pacino, kind of based on the similarity to the movie Devil's Advocate. So I went off on this really terrible search of looking for movies where women are beaten or died or childbirth. Good job, Ben. Did not find really any helpful or great connections to make.

That's what Ben's been doing. That's what I've been doing, guys. Peeping Tom Hosley over here. He's the peeper. He's the peeper. The pe what Ben's been doing. That's what I've been doing, guys. Peeping Tom Hosley over here. He's the peeper. The peeper's the new name. Well, guys, Pan's Labyrinth, Ophelia's mother, Carmen, she dies.

Oh, gosh. Pan's Labyrinth is a rough movie. Have you guys seen Crimson Peak? No, is it great? I really liked it. Yeah, if I can stomach the blood, I think I should see it. Because I do really love that, yeah.

Just so Ben's suggestion wasn't a total dead end, I would like to present for this new segment Star Wars What Ifs. Okay. I'd like to present this is Al Pacino as Padme Amidala. Anakin,

you're breaking my heart! That was terrible. Padme Amidala. Anakin. You're a prick in my heart! That was terrible. I'm not laughing. Oh, I loved it. Everyone else loved it. The room loved it. The room loved it.

I wonder, I mean, we almost had a universe where Rose Byrne was Amidala or like Kara Knightley or I guess Keisha Castle-Hughes Are you grooming Griff right now? He's got a lot of sound The soundproofing is leaking onto my clothing

Just trying to tell you something That would have been good, I don't know My takeaway now is that very few actors could have survived any of the parts in these films. I think the movie is... Who would we have liked

to see as Anakin? Like, really? Oh, we said this. Ryan Gosling. Ryan Gosling is a good answer. Ryan Gosling would have been in just the right position to do it

because he was the right age. He was also like a Canadian TV actor primarily at that point. But he was much better at portraying rage. Yeah. He would have been really good.

He's got a better weird fake Brooklyn accent. Yeah, slightly better. Yeah. He would have been really good. He's got a better weird fake Brooklyn accent. Yeah, slightly better. Yeah. Yeah, no, because this is my Hayden Christensen, okay? Padme, I love you so much. This is my Ryan Gosling.

Ah, Padme, I love you so much. I just went to Gosling. I don't know, Padme. What happened to Gosling? He's coming back. He made that movie and then he was off the grid.

He made that movie? He made that movie. I think he was taking a break Yeah He wanted to be a daddy Yeah he had He directed apparently Right he made that movie

Lost River He made that movie He made the movie But he was in Gangsta Squad Remember Gangsta Squad That was right before the break Gangsta Squad

Push back Yeah well I'm a gangster Gangsta Squad That's my Ryan Gosling Great Padme My Ryan Gosling is just becoming...

Emma Stone might have been a fun Padme. She would have been good. I mean, but she would have been too, but she would have been good. A little younger. My Ryan Gosling is just becoming Mugsy from the Looney Tunes cartoons, the gangster. Padme.

Yeah. Okay. Great, great podcast. I'm so sleepy. Can't wait to win a Webby award for this. Oh my God. And when we do, Sonia, you'll be up there

accepting it with us. Yay! Who hosts the Webbys these days? I think it's Watto. I think Watto hosts them these days. This is really telling that we've recorded two episodes in one day. Right now this is getting punched up. Everyone is just running out of steam. As if Plop Tarts

wasn't already showing my weariness. Plop Tarts was funny though. Plop Tarts was funny, though. Plop Tarts was funny. Okay, and let's just cleanly state, just so we have it on record, we are pro-Smits. Not pro-Bits. Anti-Bits. Yep.

Pro-Smits-Ship-Bits. Sure. That sounds like a cereal. It sounds like a tie. Smith-Ship-Bits. Smith-Ship-Bits. Smith-Ship-Bits. Yeah. Congratulations to us all. Thank sounds like a tie-in. Smith-Schmidt bits. Smith-Schmidt bits. Smith-Schmidt. Yeah.

Congratulations to us all. Thank you for being with us today. We're great artists. So many people can follow you on Twitter. Yeah, they can. Yeah. They have to spell my name, though. It's hard. So let's not give them any help.

Sonia Saraya. Figure it out. Let's see. She's verified. Who is worthy of following you on Twitter? Can read your work on Salon. Yes.

Night Cheese is the other podcast. Yeah. I'm going to cut that out. Oh, you did? Thank you. It's a good point to announce that Ben and I are about to start a new spin-off podcast. That's right. It's called Morning Crackers. No, it's called Cut That Out. It's pretty short.

We end up cutting a lot of stuff out. It's called Morning Crackers, cut that out. And what happens is I eat a cracker on Mike, and then Ben goes, cut that out. And that's each episode. You have to guess which type of cracker I'm eating. Well, we're terrible people. Yep.

I want to die. Watch a terrible movie. Watch a terrible movie. Yeah, I want to eat my own head. And next time, hopefully, maybe we'll do the performance review next time. Yeah, it's about syncing up guests, but we got some good ones going up. We're going to do a performance review. We're going to look at Jenny Tartatovsky's Clone Wars.

Jenny Tartatovsky, Wars. Jenny Tartofsky, my favorite living filmmaker, director of Hotel Transylvania and Hotel Transylvania 2, did a Clone Wars micro series, animated micro series, I think is better. On the Cartoon Network,

I believe. Yes, better than the film. And so we're going to do that. We're going to do a performance review. We'll see which one comes next,

but those are both coming up in your future. They're coming along a short time ahead in a galaxy very close by. Don't make fun of me. That's my real voice. It is not.

Yes, it is. I talk like this. You're never going to get a Pixar movie. I'm never going to get a Pixar movie. My career is ruined. Producer Ben, final thoughts? I don't know. Sorry we dragged you out here on a Sunday.

No, it's okay. It was fun. I mean, at first... You're least convincing. No, it was fun. I mean, the previous episode, I was mad. Yeah, Ben was mad. He doesn't talk much in last week's episode. Wait, why was Ben mad?

I just didn't want to be here doing it, but I warmed up, and this one had a lot of fun watching you guys. It was because of me. I think it was. Aw, yay. We'll call you the Ben Breaker, because you break Ben like ice.

Breaking? I don't know. All right, we need to be done with that. We need to wrap up. I have no final thoughts. As always. And as always. Spit need to wrap up. I have no final thoughts. As always. And as always.

Smitship bits. Smitship bits. Bye guys. Bye.