Blank Check with Griffin & David - A Conversation with George Lucas - Revenge Of The Podcast

Episode Date: November 23, 2015

With Griffin and David nearing the end of their investigation into the Phantom Menace trilogy there were still a lot of unanswered questions. So they decided to invite a very special guest who played a central part in creating these three indie films to help them better understand: director George Lucas. Yes thats right Georgie Porgie himself in the flesh! Listen in as the hosts attempt to make sense of Jar Jar Binks, Jake Lloyd’s performance, Coruscant the city planet, and more with the architect behind it all. Also, a GIANT revelation is brought to light that completely changes everything Griffin and David thought they knew about the Star Wars universe!

🎵 Hello and welcome. I'm not even going to try to do a stupid intro here because this is a big episode for us. I'm Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims. Let's clear our throats. I feel like that's an NPR thing to do. I don't know.

Yeah. This is episode nine of Griffin and David present Revenge of the Podcast. Hello. Hi. of the podcast. Hello! Hi. This is a miniseries investigation we've been doing

into the third and final film in the Phantom Menace trilogy. It's a culmination of a series of investigations. We started out watching... There's a lot of string on our poster board. This is, yes.

It has driven us a little bit mad. A little up the wall. A little bit mad. More than a little mad. Thoroughly mad. We started out investigating Star Wars Episode I, The Phantom Menace, trying to figure out

what that movie was about. Yeah. After about two and a half months of work on that, we moved on to Attack of the Clones, Episode II. Tried to figure out if that was a good sequel. Right. I guess so. It's not. It's not. That was easier to figure out. Very easy. We figured that out pretty much

minute one of the first episode. No. We went on to a third miniseries podcast Revenge of the Podcast what you're listening to right now trying to figure out what was this larger story.

Three films. Right, right. Classical story structure. Three films. You completed your saga. The trilogy. What was trying to be said and the through line

amongst all these was we weren't just looking at the text. We weren't just looking at the material. We weren't just looking at the material. We were trying to figure out what the intention was of the filmmaker behind these works. Wow. A director, a writer. If only we could get him in studio.

Self-financed. Now, David's being a little cheeky here. Ah, I'm being cheeky. Because a couple months ago. Doing a bit. I threw out on the show. Unlike me. No bits. No bits. That, of course, is Producer Ben, a.k.a. Purdueer Ben, a.k.a. The Ben Ducer, a.k.a.

The Haas, a.k.a. Hello Fennel, a.k.a. Mr. Positive. You forget the Poet Laureate. I was getting to it next. I know I forgot it last week. I know, and I was really, really upset about that. Yeah.

A.k.a. The Poet Laureate, a.k.a. The Peeper, a.k.a. Producer Ben Kenobi. That's a new one. That was dubbed by our guest today because our guest today is someone we threw out an open invitation if he was listening, if he was out there, if he wanted to come defend himself

our door was open as always and today I can't believe I'm saying this I'm looking at him right now in the eyes and this really is the real guy we got the email, I thought it might be this is the guy who does a monthly show at the UCB talk show

and directed I don't know I thought it might be... This is the guy who does a monthly show at the UCB. Yes. Talk show. Yeah. And directed, I don't know, four of the most successful films ever made? Yeah. Including American Graffiti. Yeah. Congratulations on that, by the way. Well, that would be five of the most successful films ever made. I'm a little confused, but we'll get to that.

Yeah, we'll talk about that later. THX was a... THX was very successful. Okay, well, let's get the introduction over with, okay? So, ladies and gentlemen, nominated for, I believe, three Academy Awards. Four Academy Awards. And he won the Thalberg, I think. Creator of two massive franchises, Indiana Jones and The Phantom Menace.

Ladies and gentlemen, it is my honor to introduce George Lucas into the studio. Georgie Porgy Lucas. Yeah. Georgie Porgy putting in pie. Yep. So first off, I feel like some apologies are in order. No. Have you listened?

I've heard bits. I've heard bits. I have hundreds of songs on my iPod. I don't have a lot of room for podcasts. Hundreds? Yeah. I have over 200 songs on my iPod. Wow.

Okay. I want to be focused in this interview because this is a real serious journalistic opportunity. But we have to ask about that. Yeah. I have over 200 songs on my iPod. Wow. Okay, I want to be focused in this interview because this is a real serious journalistic opportunity. But we have to ask about that. Yeah, let's go. A little sidebar. We've got a lot of serious questions about a little sidebar. What kind of music do you listen to? Well, I mean, that question was answered in cinemas this year.

You went and saw the motion picture Strange Magic? Oh, yeah, I did see that. Some strange magic. Yeah, I did see that. The inspiration for sort of the rethinking of that movie was that I had over 200 songs on my iPod. That's true. 200 on a device that holds? Thousands.

I mean, the first iteration was 1,000. The bragging right, that was 15 years ago. Let me see how many. 15 years ago, the first iteration, it was a breakthrough that it could hold 1,000. I'm telling you how many 15 years ago the first iteration it was a breakthrough that it could hold a thousand I mean

I'm telling you how many I had 200 okay so you have focused taste and I mean you'll hear some of the

a lot of the examples I mean on the Strange Magic on the Strange Magic soundtrack versions of you know we just we were

we were looking at the script at a certain point when it was still in story form treatment form and for those listeners who don't know, strange magic was an animated film that was released this January. I broke records,

broke box office records. I think it, it had the, it was the lowest per screen. Uh, like, it was the lowest gross. No,

it was the lowest grossing animated film to be released on 3000 screens. So you beat Delgo. Yeah. Cause Delgo was only released on like 1,800 screens. Delgo didn't go as wide. All I know is it broke box office records. It did. Yeah, that is true.

Another notch. Do you have like a series of notches? Well, I'd already, you know, like it's easy to be the number one movie of all time if you want to. You can do that. You can break big records. It's also fair to go the other direction and of all time if you want to you can do that you can break big records it's also fair to go the other direction and break records

at the bottom they all get in the books that's interesting still breaking records you're still making cinema history so I saw that film in theaters

did you? I did I remember it had it was sort of a jukebox musical starring fairies and goblins

about fairies who live in the woods yeah I don't think I knew that it had this jukebox musical starring fairies and goblins. About fairies who live in the woods? Yeah. I don't think I knew that it had this jukebox musical element to it. Oh, yeah, very much so. Okay, all right. I remember it mostly comprising of pop songs from the last seven or eight years. No, there's Burt Bacharach songs there.

Oh, that's true. There were some recent stuff, too, though. What are some songs? I'll Never Fall in Love Again by Burt Bacharach and Hal David. It's a lovely song. I'll tell you, this is a little bit of news that most people don't know one of the original songs that i first proposed for uh when i was pitching the idea saying uh what if they sing i had the songs on my ipod was the song we built this city on rock and roll and was that in the film no it didn't make the cut but but that is truly... That is for real.

For real. Yeah. One of the first songs that I mentioned when I was talking to some people about it. And that's the fairy city, Bull Tatted Flowers. They would be... I don't know. I guess that's why it didn't make the cut. It didn't make sense.

Unforgettable by Beyonce, I think, was in that, right? There's a little hint toward Lady Gaga, Bad Romance. Oh, right. That's right. There's a part where a goblin army all chants na na na na na. Anyway, now available on DVD, not Blu-ray. It's not available

on Blu-ray? No. High definition download or DVD. But there's no, for us physical media fans, there's no hard copy. Do you have a problem with Blu-ray? Because I own the Star Wars films on Blu-ray. Just some films come out on Blu-ray, some I own the Star Wars films on Blu-ray. Just some films come out on Blu-ray. Some films don't.

I think almost all at this point. I mean, even very small. Well, it looks like we've broken another record. I feel like I'm bringing some past sort of anger into this. I'm trying to give you a platform to defend your work. We have George Lucas on this show. We have George Lucas on this show. This is a huge opportunity.

This is what we wanted the whole time. We're trying to make sense of these films. That's what we're doing. We sort of view ourselves as pop culture investigators, detectives. I guess so. Maybe. One could say that's a better branding hook. I'm here to answer any questions you have.

Okay. Obviously, this is the story I wanted to tell. Yeah. Well, let's get on to that. So, Phantom Mass comes out in 1999. That's right. Great year for movies. It was.

It was a banner year for American cinema. Yeah. I don't know what else came out. A lot of stuff. I mean... So, you're saying just on the basis of Phantom Mass alone, it was a great year for movies. Yeah, I don't remember what else came out,

but I know it was a great year. That was definitely... I mean, that was the number one box office film of that year. I know Toy Story 2, my favorite movie of all time, came in that year. Hey, Pixar. Oh, you founded Pixar. Yeah, you know. Or you didn't found it, but you owned it for a while.

I owned it, and then it was bought from me, but still I get the credit. Yeah, you sold Steve Jobs. Okay, we've got to talk about the Star Wars movies, but not the quick side part. I can't help it if I point out. No, because I want to stay focused, because this is what this podcast is about. And they did the stained glass man in Young Sherlock Holmes. Young Sherlock Holmes, right. Which I misidentified as being from Young Indiana Jones.

Which was also a George Lucas production. Pixar, you buy it. At the time, they have, I think, three animators on staff. John Lasseter, Andrew Stanton, and Pete Docter. All three of whom have gone on to win Academy Awards. You, after a couple years, sell the company because it is losing money and you don't see a reality in which it will ever turn a profit. Sure.

I mean, that's one way to spin it. I still get credit for it, you know? Well, my question is, does it burn at all? You're a man of tremendous success. You've broken records in both directions. Do you look at Pixar, the most consistently successful movie studio in history, arguably? Hey, I still ended up getting all that money. From when you sold it?

Yeah. No, no. In the end, the money came back to me in the end. Pixar goes on to make all that money for Disney, and then I end up getting that Disney money. That's a good point. Money always comes back to Georgia. Is that your catchphrase? No, that's not a catchphrase.

That's a true fact. I did see on Wikipedia, it says that you presented them a golden lion for lifetime achievement at the Venice Film Festival. That was fun. Venice is great. That sounds like no sour grapes. No, not at all. You don't look at them as the one that got away. No, not at all.

Because I got away with their money in the end. The money came back to Georgie. Okay, so let's talk about money a little bit. So you self-finance Star Wars Episode I, The Phantom Menace. That's right. It's an indie film. All three of the Star Wars prequels that we're talking about here, those are indie films. If you're a fan of independent cinema, that doesn't get bigger than that.

They are the biggest indie films. It's another record. I don't think anyone's ever going to top that for indie films. I don't think anyone's ever going to make three bigger indie films than prequels. No, and you raise a good point, which is when I think about the things I love about independent films, size is definitely top of the list.

Well, people also went to see them. Yeah. No, they were, as I said, they were all huge hits. If you read the AV Club this week, they got a big article about how great they are. They do. I'm saying that they are almost undervalued. Yeah, I got to say, that article barely tracked for me, though.

It didn't even make sense. I couldn't process some of the references they were throwing out. Oh, that's heartbreaking. No, I'm not saying I disagree. I just gave a lot of money to education. I'm so sorry. I had to roll reading. Okay.

So was that the money that you got from Disney that Disney got from Pixar, which you gave to- Yeah, that I gave to USC this week, the biggest donation of its- It's true. Is that part of some long con to get that money back in your pockets now? I mean, it'll come back. So you're kind of like Las Vegas, like the house always wins. That's what I was saying. Let's not distract from the fact that you said you had a hard time reading an article.

I'm not saying- On the AV Club, which usually employs, I would say, subhuman writers, including myself. Hey, now. Look, I know how to read, okay? I tested very well on the English portion of my SATs. The English what? The English portion of my SATs. Wow, I'm ganging up on you, Griffin.

My reading comprehension scores were off the charts. Not to brag. Well, let me summarize. The article just says that the prequels are really great. Yeah, I know. I understood that part. I might have slightly different opinions, but I understood it. I was just saying some of the references they were throwing out,

maybe they were lofty. I didn't understand the allusions they were making, but neither here nor there. You make this film entirely your your own vision everything i wanted everything you wanted yeah you look at that film and you go that that is a successful representation of my vision yeah it's it's it's what i want it's the story i wanted to tell i have no regrets i think it holds up really well and the av club agrees with me okay so here's the question I need to ask you. Sure. What is that story?

What is that story? What is the, what are the movies about? What is, what is the Phantom, let's do one at a time. What is the Phantom Menace about two-time, four-time Academy Award nominee, two-time Best Director nominee, George Lucas? All right, there's some bad business going on. Okay. Bad things are happening, and a little boy starts a journey. Yeah. He's destined maybe for greatness. Okay. Bad things are happening, and a little boy starts a journey. Yeah.

He's destined maybe for greatness. Okay. And this is just the first chapter in his journey. And he has a fun race. He wins a big battle, helps win a big battle. Right. He's pivotal, I would say. Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, it's the classic, you know, little boy adventure story where a little boy has an adventure. OK. I don't know what I do. You have a specific thing that you don't understand. Little boy isn't even introduced until an hour into. Yeah. I was going to say, I mean, I asked you what the film was about. You focused on one character, excluded the other four main characters to share an equal. There's some Jedis who are they think some bad business is going on in the universe. Bad business? Yeah.

I mean, it's the Trade Federation. They want good business. Yeah. Well, no, they're selfish and greedy. I said they're greedy right in the opening crawl. I know you said that. George, look, you're a very smart man. Some greedy men, some greedy creatures. I won't say men because when i say men then people

think they're asians and they're not what are they can we get to the i'm sorry when you say men people think they're asians that's when that confusion arises when you identify the problem is i'll create an alien creature and then people people will uh ascribe earth human ethnicity to those characters they'll see parallels that were not intended. They'll see racial stereotypes. There are a lot of questions being raised here. I don't even. Yeah.

Okay. Go on. Go on. All right. Newt Gunray is not Asian. Yes, he is. He's a Neimoidian. Okay.

He's a Neimoidian. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. How do you become an Asian? What are the characteristics? You tell me. We're wading into very difficult territory. You know what you're doing to me, right? I'm not going to answer that question, George.

One of the things probably has to have some connection to Asia, right? But these guys are from- They've never even been to Earth. Their garb is very, it looks sort of like- No, the voices. And the voice, I mean, I don't, look. That's you saying that. Yeah.

A lot of very racist people have, these movies are a Rorschach test. I'll put Neimoidian into, I just put it into Google. Yeah. The two autocompletes that were suggested for me were Neimoidian racist and Neimoidian Chinese. Okay.

So George, so your defense is you're saying that you intend nothing, but perhaps these films function as a funhouse mirror, as a Rorschach test to see what you see. I think, no, no. I think I created a bunch of aliens. Right. For instance, people who think that Watto, people see Jewish stereotypes. He's a flying space Jew.

Yes. Yes, he is. Yes, he is. He's got a big floppy nose. He rubs his chin a lot. I'm a Jew. He looks like my dad. I know that Watto's Jewish.

I know he is. Are you sure? No, let me ask you this. He's always his chin a lot. I'm a Jew. He looks like my dad. I know that Watto's Jewish. I know he is. Are you sure? No, let me ask you this. He's always trying to cut a deal and drive a hard bargain. Are you sure that your dad isn't some kind of dirty guido? Okay, don't fucking say that. George, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm trying to be professional here. Have I asked my dad if he's some kind of dirty guido? Are you kidding me, George? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. If anything, well, first of all, I can tell you this. Watto has never, his mother's not Jewish. All right.

Which is the typical. Come on now. And he's never been to temple. He's never practiced. He's from Toydaria. Okay. I have to stop you here. You're saying that these religious, you know, orientations, ethnicities, gender identities don't even exist in your universe.

So if we see them, if we prescribe them to characters that we're projecting, but you acknowledge that Judaism does exist in the Star Wars universe because Watto's mother isn't Jewish by your standards, and Watto doesn't fucking practice, which means there are space Jews. Stop ranting. Well, no. Later on there will be. Later on there will be. But these stories take place. Are you fucking kidding me? Hold on. Stop ranting. Well, no. Later on there will be. Later on there will be. But these stories take place.

Are you fucking kidding me? Hold on. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Why are you so angry? Because this is personal to me. I'm a Jewish person. No, no, no.

Come on. He's making fun of my father. My father's had financial problems. Ben cut that out. This is a sensitive subject. Let me just say this. Yes. I couldn't have been clearer at the beginning of these movies saying when they took place

and where. A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Okay, now, two factors there. When I said a long time ago, maybe I should have been more specific, but I meant a very long time ago, many, many years before Judaism even existed as a religion. Then why even bring up that his mother isn't Jewish? Why say that to me? Because you accused him of being Jewish, and I was pointing out, first of all, Judaism didn't even exist when these movies take place. Okay.

Also, they were far away, so Asia didn't even exist when these movies take place. Okay. Also, they're far away. So Asia didn't exist yet. It was probably still, there's probably, what's the, what do they call the original landmass? Pangaea. Pangaea. This is pre-Pangaea. Yeah. It's important to think about, Griffin.

This is a dead end. Griffin, Griffin, I'm going to ask you to take a chill pill. I'm going to take a chill pill. Yeah. I'm going to put you in timeout for a second. Now, Jar Jar Binks. Thank you. That was a mitzvah. He's totally racist.

What? Jar Jar Binks. he's totally racist. What? Jar Jar Binks. He's like totally racist, right? For what race? All right, I'm not even going to. I was just kidding. I was just kidding. He's not.

Jar Jar is your co-host at the George Lucas Talk Show, right? That's right. So he seems to have emerged into our world somehow. Well, he's CGI. That's true. Right, right. He's created Simone Jar Jar into existence.

George pulled a fucking Simone. When you were making The Phantom Menace, I think we've talked about this, there's a making of feature on the Phantom Menace DVD or something where he says, you say, Jar Jar is the key to all this. We get Jar Jar right, we get everything right. And we did. It was a...

I mean, it's very easy to destroy these things. You can do it. But I knew if we got Jar Jar right, then everything would fall into place. And, you know, I read an interesting theory recently that I do not agree with. Okay, go ahead. I want to ask you what you mean by getting him right.

But go ahead. Every sentence he says has six questions springing up. Well, ask the questions. I'm right here. No, but what was the interesting article yeah no there's a theory going around that

oh that Jar Jar is evil or is a Sith or that I planned for that I held back on using Jar Jar in the second and third movie and that it was all going to be revealed later

that he was pretending to be silly or accidental but he's actually kind of you know snake in the grass

yeah kind of like Palpat... Snake in the grass. Yeah. Kind of like Palpatine. Jar Jar was exactly what I intended. Which was? I wanted the first movie to be Jar Jar all over the place. Right. And then I wanted to use Jar Jar

very judiciously in the second and third films. That was a plan, was to establish a character as a huge part of the universe in Act One. He's probably on screen for like 80 minutes of the first movie

and then a combined two of the second two movies. If even. That was screen for like 80 minutes of the first movie and then a combined two of the second two movies. If even. That was intentional. That was all your intention. You give the audience what they need

not what they want. In some ways because these three movies are the arc of these three movies the arc of these three movies is that I mean it's a tragedy

and part of that The tragedy of Anakin Skywalker. One of the ways that we establish that and it's a very stealthy way and I think a very successful way, is you give the first movie, you have a delightful character that delights audiences, amuses audiences. Which one are your friends? Jar Jar Binks. Pratt Falls. Jar Jar Binks.

He has an amusing way of talking. A very amusing way of talking. That dialect is hilarious. He's sort of a Buster Keaton-esque. Classic comedy. He's just like Buster Keaton, that guy who would never fucking stop talking. He's exactly like Buster Keaton.

Well, now that's not Buster Keaton's fault. He existed in an era where... Go on, I'm sorry. Again, you're very obsessed with the timeline of things. Griffin, you're often getting upset about things that don't make sense in the timeline in which you're upset.

Do you want to know the timeline I'm upset about right now? We spent seven months fucking studying these movies. You're saying that Buster Keaton... Don't be angry, Griffin. I'm sorry. That the reason Buster Keaton

didn't talk a lot was because that's his character as opposed to the fact that movies didn't have words then. Go on, Jordan. All right? Wait, wait, George. All right? Wait, wait, wait.

If Buster Keaton had been around for Phantom Menace, I bet he would have talked a lot. He would have said, oh, no, Mesa, think a house gonna fall on my head. That's what he would say. Now, why would you think he wouldn't say that? I don't even remember what the question was we were asking. What, George? There's a very good reason why he probably wouldn't talk like that

is because I don't think Buster Keaton in his entire filmography ever played a gungan. All right? I can't even dealuster Keaton in his entire filmography ever played a gungan. All right? I can't even deal with you. I mean, let me ask you this. Do you think Buster Keaton is Asian? Do I think Buster...

Fuck. You're a real... No, I don't think Buster... I know for a fact he wasn't Asian. I don't know what... I don't know what you... Why? Why wasn't he...

Because he was a real human being. We know his genealogy. Okay, but why... I'll put it in his Wikipedia page. I'll find out. Be specific. Why was Buster Keaton not? So he wasn't from Asia, and he didn't have any Asian lineage.

Those are the factors? Guys, yes. He shares those in common with a certain person that I like to call Jar Jar Binks. We're really, I think we're getting mired in stuff. Jar Jar Binks isn't Asian? Jar Jar Binks is Caribbean. Griffin, let's get back to the point you were making. It's a serious interview.

Newt Gunray, is Caribbean. Griffin. Let's get back to the point you were making. It's a serious interview. Newt Gunray. Newt Gunray. Not Asian. Okay. I want to get back to the point that you were making, which is the first movie has tons of Jar Jar Binks. George has the biggest shitting brain on his face. Give them what they want because things are relatively, we're in a good place in Phantom

Menace. There's some bad business going on. Bad business. It's a little bit under the surface. It's going to get a lot worse. It's going to get a lot worse. And part of the reason. He's grin the audience of Jar Jar in episodes two and three is that the audience will feel it.

They absorb it. They think, why is it? The lack of comedy. It's not as much fun now. The lack of smiles. Things are less fun than they used to be. And that's a loud and clear message.

To what ultimate end? What's the payoff there? You take him away so they feel the absence and then you never bring him back. I did bring him back. He's sad when...

Yeah, that's my point. So the final payoff is you see him shed a single tear? That's what I want to get this to. The final payoff of the whole movies

is that the galaxy collapses into ruin and is controlled by a tyrant. And the Jedi are massacred. Right. And our hero turns into a villain. Yeah. And his legs get chopped off and he's set on fire and he gets put into a metal sort of iron lung.

Sure. So that's a pretty down... There's not a lot of up. No. Of course not. The only up really is that his two kids are alive. Oh, I'd love to hear you guys. You know what?

I have a suggestion for your next podcast. You should read all the Shakespeare plays and then have William Shakespeare come in here to defend the end of Hamlet. Well, that's not a problem. We couldn't book the real William Shakespeare because he's dead. No, but I bet you have a lot of problems

with the ending of Hamlet. I don't have any problems with the ending of Hamlet because Hamlet was structured from the beginning to be a tragedy. Well, this was structured from the beginning to be a tragedy. Well, this was structured from the beginning to be a tragedy. When the kid's saying yippee

and he's running around with a space Caribbean. Hamlet's having fun at the beginning of that. Yeah, I forgot Hamlet has that big pod race scene at the beginning.

Remember that first act of Hamlet? First of all, Shakespeare. Billy Crystal is in Hamlet. Let's not forget. A version of Hamlet. Billy Crystal is in

the original text of Hamlet. What about Hamlet 2? Hamlet 2 is a lot more fun than Hamlet 1. That's a loose sequel. That's a loose sequel and you know it. There's none of the same characters. It sounds like you're criticizing me for things that I did on purpose. I'm trying not to criticize you.

I'm trying to make sense of this, okay? Can we ask about the directing of Jake Lloyd? Yes, great question. So you bring in, yeah, that's a great question. Poet laureate. This is why we have you in here. We asked you what Phantom Menace was about, and you focused on Anakin.

Sure. I still think we can get a better answer, but we'll get back to that later. So we've got Jake Lloyd. You bring him in. Yeah. What about Jake Lloyd spoke to you when you were casting? Yeah, talk about the casting process.

If you ever saw Unhooked the Stars, Jake Lloyd's very good in that movie. Yes, we agree with that. Yes, we've said that in the past. That's obviously got a different acting style than the prequels do. Naturalistic, human. Jake gets a lot of,

early on there were naysayers. I think they would be a little bit hard on Jake, but I think if you look at the baseline acting style that I established for the whole movie, I think Jake Lloyd's acting holds up with Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, I think across the board. Categorically incorrect. I would say he's a little more one note.

You're actually going to sit here in this room, look me in the eyes, and tell me that Jake Lloyd is delivering the same level of performance as Liam Neeson in that film. I would say that. You are a sociopath. No.

George Lucas, you are a sociopath. I would say that. You would say that, yes. Okay, well, you're a lunatic. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I didn't know you were going to be this angry. I didn't either. No, I really thought. I think you should relax. I have to relax. I'm Okay, well, you're a lunatic. I'm sorry. I didn't know you were going to be this angry. I didn't either. No, I really thought.

I think you should relax. I have to relax. I'm sorry, Dave. You take the next question. I got it. No, I would say the reason you're angry is because you should be angry after you watch these movies. That's the point.

You're saying that you succeeded. Yeah, I got a reaction out of you. Yeah. I never, if you really didn't like. You're sad. The universe, your universe is in ruins emotionally, and that's the point of these movies, is to get you to a point where all you want is to see Jar Jar again, happy and joking and falling all over things.

Sure, right, right. That's what everyone's going out for in the third film. So your defense of these movies right now is that you are Palpatine and I am Anakin, and you have pushed me into the fate that I always had coming, which is... That's a good question. I don't hear you saying yippee.

Who do you identify with most in the Star Wars films? Who's your analog, I would say? I mean, a little bit of Yoda, maybe. Yoda, interesting. Wouldn't you argue that in the films, Yoda is kind of a little divorced from

the reality of what's going on. He doesn't really anticipate the tragedy that befalls the Jedi. Emotionally detached, ineffective. Yeah, he knows something is coming, but he doesn't anticipate it and he doesn't deal with it. It's not a one-to-one comparison. I mean, I am all of these characters. These characters are all me.

But if I have to pick one, which was your question, Yoda's cool and wise and old, and that's me. At the end of the third film, Yoda realizes that he has conclusively failed in his years long mission. I believe he says, failed I have. And so he banishes himself to a

lifetime of solitude in a swamp we found out from deleted scenes. Well I quit making films. Well this is my point. Took the money from Disney and ran. This is my point. You ran? Yeah. You're never going to make a movie again? No, never again. Open my big museum, do my show monthly at UCB East.

Those are the two. Strange Magic was the last one. That's the note you're pointing out. I helped out with that. No, I was from the mind of George Lucas. It was. I remember. That was my credit.

From the mind of George Lucas. I'll have more things from my mind. I don't mind doing that. This is all coming from your mind right now. Sure, yeah. You're enraging Griffin with your mind. Yeah. Oh, boy. I guess that's like Yoda, too, all coming from your mind right now. You're enraging Griffin with your mind. Yeah. Oh boy.

I guess that's like Yoda too. He keeps on saying, why are you so angry? Why are you so angry? Which is only making me angrier. It's classic Yoda-Anakin dynamic. I did do one piece of filmmaking which I put online. It's kind of a little bit of you know, essentially, I've always said, you know, eventually I'll get back to making small personal films, underground films.

I did put one thing online. You can see it on Vimeo. It's not official because I don't own the films anymore. I did an alternate ending to episode 3 where I redubbed Darth Vader's dialogue. I think it's great. I encourage people to check it out.

Just a little alternate. I used the audio from Alec Baldwin's phone call message to his daughter. Are you personal friends with Alec Baldwin's phone call message to his daughter. What are you talking about? Are you personal friends with Alec Baldwin? No. I see. Interesting.

You're presenting this to our listeners as your return to filmmaking, and now you're telling me it's a meme? It's you just overlaying Alec Baldwin's voicemail to his daughter? It's not canon. It's more expanded universe. It's not canon. It's expanded universe. Okay.

But I do want people to look at that clip. Hey, how about let's just try to keep this moving along. Let's go on to Attack of the Clones. Great movie. Before we go on to Attack of the Clones, I want to ask one more time. I'm not asking for a

Wikipedia plot synopsis. I'm asking, George, what is The Phantom Menace about? There's bad business going on. Not what happens in it. What's it about? We've seen it. We know what happens. This little boy seems important. Maybe he is.

Okay, Attack of the Clones. That's actually a pretty good answer. That's pretty good. I'm angry only because he answered it well. It's true because there's a lot of bad business, as George says. There's bad business. Some Jedis are going around the universe trying to deal with bad business. They come across a little boy and they're like,

this kid seems important. Maybe he is. The biggest mystery of that movie is, what's up with the kid? Yeah. The mystery is not who's that hooded figure, because we know who that hooded figure is. It's Palpatine. That's right.

I would argue the biggest mystery is how does Coruscant work? Yeah, how does Coruscant work? It's your creation. Yeah, let's attack the clones. Let's hit the ground running.

What's the infrastructure? The whole planet is a city. We can't get over this. We've been chewing on this one for months. How does that work? How is it powered? How do they not all just die enveloped in smog?

Is the mayor the president of the world? Is uptown the buildings that are closer to the sky and downtown the buildings that are closer to the ground? Yeah, that's good. That is good? Sure. Thank you. It's a city planet.

We know that. The whole planet's a city. Tatooine's a desert planet and the whole planet's a desert. Yep. Coruscant's a city planet and the whole planet's a city. Right. We know that. Okay. What about Mr. Paul?

That's your whole answer. I mean, you guys seem kind of mad that I made so much of Phantom Menace about the Trade Federation. I don't think if I'd made the second movie about infrastructure that you guys would have been any happier. We're asking for... Wait, wait, wait. What's the second movie about? Uh, the second movie? Yeah. He's a teenager

now. He's in love. The second movie's a romance. Interesting. A doomed romance. So it's about doomed love, would you say? I mean, look how it ends. Things are going well. Okay, I'm not asking for city council meetings. Can a boy love a girl? Maybe.

That's the second movie. That's the central question of Attack of the Clones is can a boy love a girl? Maybe. Yeah. First movie is, here's this kid. Is this kid important? Maybe. Second movie is, can a boy love a girl? Maybe.

What decisive storylines. No, because it's not one. These aren't individual. You're breaking these down the wrong way. It's all one book. These are chapters in the book. The first is, hey, here's this kid. Is he important?

Maybe. Second one is, can a boy love a girl? Maybe. Third movie answers those questions. Yes, turns out he was important, but maybe for the wrong reasons. Could he love a woman? Yeah, but it doesn't matter because it was doomed because of the first question. This is an interesting point, actually, that George is raising,

which is that there is a vocal contingent of artists and content makers who believe that our culture— Storytellers. Storytellers, yes. Believe that our culture of doing individualized reviews of specific episodes of television or specific episodes of podcasts, two things that you have gotten paid to do in your life, David, is not a good idea. Yeah.

There's a whole group of people who think that works like that that are serialized should not be viewed by their separate parts. Right, you've got to zoom out. Totality. I think it's valid to view those things. You can take apart a car and judge the individual parts of it, but ultimately if you want to drive it, you've got to put the car back together. But you're almost saying to us that to look at each of these films

and expect them to function in the way that a conventional film does is wrongheaded. No, I'm not saying that what I've done isn't extraordinary. It may be a little different. Maybe that's what you're reacting mean, I'm not saying that what I've done isn't extraordinary. It may be a little different. Maybe that's what you're reacting to. You're not saying that. No, I'm saying what I'm saying is that what I've done is extraordinary and maybe a little different.

I'm sorry that this can't be like every other movie, but we're doing something different. Does your back hurt, George? Why? Because you keep on patting yourself on it. No, it feels good. Patting feels good. I don't know why you would, if people have been hitting you and calling it patting on

the back if it's hurting. George, what were your major inspirations for the scholars? Flash Gordon. Sure. Sure. That's it? That's the one? Kurosawa.

Kurosantwa, more like. What do you mean? No, it's just. Oh, you're making a play on Kurosawa? Kurosawa. Yeah. Sure. Yeah, that's fun. Was you mean? No, it's just... Oh, you're making a play on Coruscant? Yeah. Sure, yeah, that's fine. Was that conscious?

Yeah, it's a tribute. The Kurosawa films are very... Hidden Fortress. I mean, you look at that, big inspiration. Yeah, that movie has a princess. You had a film with a queen. It has these two sort of bumbling oafs who I guess you turned into a warm bumbling.

See, now you understand the relationship between a princess and a queen how one thing leads to another but you still think Newt Gunray is from Asia. How are those two things related? I don't understand the comparison you're trying to make. I'm saying I think you're being selective in when you look at causality. George I have a question.

Sure. You're in Revenge of the Sith. That's right. You play Baron Pepinoida. How was the experience of being on camera? I heard your performance review. You gave me a bad review for acting. We gave you a thumbs down. I'm sorry about that.

Do you consider yourself an actor? I mean, are you really offended by that? More so than the other things we've said about you on this podcast. Well, I'm not an actor primarily, but I have acted before. I was in Beverly Hills Cop 3. I was in Just Shoot Me. Okay. Beverly Hills Cop 3.

You were in the OC. That's right. Beverly Hills Cop 3. I was in Just Shoot Me. Beverly Hills Cop 3. You were in the OC. Beverly Hills Cop 3, you played Right. You were a man attending a theme park. Yeah. Right. Disappointed man. Yes. That's your role now. Thank you, George. That's very funny. Is that an homage? I can see

how your UCB experience has been paying off. Hey! Hey! Okay, so that performance and Baron Bapenoida and Les, I am wrong, are the only two performances in which you have not played yourself. Other things like the OC, Just Shoot Me,

you come on as George Lucas, director of Phantom Menace. Sure. Yeah, in the OC, you hire the character of Zack to work with you at Lucasfilm. I was just pretending that we were just acting. You didn't actually hire him?

Nope. Are you exacting about who you hire at Lucasfilm? Yes. We only hire the best. We hire good people. It's a family. Like Rick McCallum, for example. Yeah, let's talk about Rick McCallum.

Let's talk about Tricky Rick McCallum. Rick's the best. Why do you call him Tricky Rick? I don't know. I like nicknames, and he seems a little tricky. You have to be tricky to be a good producer. You know who's tricky? Well, he gets the job done. You know to be tricky to be a good producer. You know who's tricky? Well, he gets the job done.

You know who's tricky is Senator Palpatine. Okay. Well, let's talk about Senator Palpatine. There are too many threads. No, no, there's always going to be too many threads. I have 14 minutes left, and then I've got to go. I'm real busy. The thing about Senator Palpatine is he seems to have a lot of analogs to current and former events.

Were you trying to do a George Bush thing, or were you just doing a Hitler question? Episode 3, I fully admit, and I've said this before publicly, Episode 3 is a Gulf War II whole scenario. Yeah. Definitely shades of George Bush. I definitely had political things to say, and these films aren't just... That's my Star Wars card trader app. A trade was just accepted. I'm excited. It means I

completed my gold set. Thank you. Wow, you completed your gold set? Yeah, I've gotten every gold card now. That's absolutely insane. I have like 14 gold cards. So you hate these movies, but you've got trade gold cards about episodes 1, 2, and 3. We love and hate these movies. Yeah, it's a very complicated relationship. Anyway, you're saying that

Palpatine's a total George Bush thing. He's just a rip-off. Well, he's a little bit Bush, a little bit Cheney because he's also clever. You know? I see what you're saying. That's some pretty harsh satire. Well, you know,

the comedy of episode one is very, you know, because it's really- So episode one's a comedy. Episode one- Would you designate episode one as a comedy? No, I would say

it's half comedy. It's really a boy's adventure. Adventure comedy. Adventure comedy. Second one's a romantic's adventure. Adventure comedy. Adventure comedy. Second one's a romantic drama. So first one, you're going through the phases of life, the stages. The first movie is about a little boy, a boy's adventure. Things are fun and exciting.

Boy's life adventure. Okay. So the comedy reflects that. The second movie is a romance. This is the adolescence. We're in teenage romance. It's moody or hormonal. That checks out. Yeah. The adolescence. We're in teenage romance. It's moodier, hormonal. That checks out.

The third movie, we're in adulthood. So the stakes are very real. George is winning me over. When you hit adulthood, you just realize that everything's terrible. They say satire is what closes on Saturday night, right? Whatever. Live? Satire is what

closes on. What's the phrase about satire? I don't know. George, I have another question. Google a phrase. Satire is what closes on.'s that phrase about satire George I have another question Google a phrase satire is what closes on I bet Google will finish the phrase because usually the 5 to 1 spot on satire live they don't close with satire I got the phrase right you guys are wrong usually they close with randomness

George S. Kaufman after his play strike up a band another great George closed in Philadelphia George said it again the thing you're quoting is a line about how satire is unsuccessful? Yes.

It was not liked by audiences? Well, that it's a risky proposition because a lot of times people don't want to hear the harsh truths. However,

I'd say that I proved them wrong because the satire in episode three was very successful at the box office. Why do these movies look like hawk garbage?

Great question. They're full of CGI nonsense. The blue screen is really terrible. I defy you to tell me what's CGI and what's not. Everything's CGI except for the You just told us you had a hard out. We don't have a time to tell you. Name one thing that doesn't look real.

Jar Jar Binks. Okay, so you both named a different thing, which already proves my point. It proves your point that there's more than one thing that doesn't look real. I agree with him on Jar Jar Binks. I, so you both named a different thing, which already proves my point. It proves your point that there's more than one thing that doesn't look real. I agree with him on Jar Jar Binks. I agree with him on the pillars. All right, Jar Jar Binks was real. He's a real character.

You've made him real now. You've Simone'd him into existence. We know. No, no, I don't just mean that. I mean, when you watch the movie, he looks real. Like, I'll specify, he looks like what a Gungan really looks like.

Now, have you ever been to Naboo? no because it's not a real planet George ok well are you a real person? yes I'm a real person but you've never been to Naboo look here's the thing we're never going to nail George to the ground in terms of admitting that the movies are bad

right? because you think the movies are great I'm not trying to do that I'm just trying to make sense of it not my words the words of the AV club my former employer why don't we ask George about

because we watched those featurettes about the behind the scenes yeah and the um basically all the animators and all the people who were putting together they worked really hard a lot of what went into the film like you know all the pre-production staging yes uh what what is your relationship like with those people great they love me. We had a great time making the movies. It was hard work. A lot of talented people. But I think if it's not behind the scenes, it's not

on screen. George, you finance these films yourself. Indie. Well, you finance them with sales with Mattel or whoever it was. Hasbro. Hasbro. You have built a giant ranch,

which houses... Skywalker Ranch. Kenner. Also originally Kenner. Oh, I see. Kenner helped to make toys as well. Kenner money. Yes.

Kenner folded into Hasbro after Phantom Ass because the sales were disappointing. That's a fact. That Kenner was a sub-brand of Hasbro. Kenner was originally... All right, we don't need to get into this. You're saying that toys, Star Wars toys, were disappointing in sales?

They were overproduced, yes, and they failed to meet expectations. No, but you're saying that we never made money on Kenner or Star Wars toys and that... I'm not saying that you never... George, this is not the time for sidebars. You have a hard out. I'll show you my... You'll show me some stats? I'll show you some numbers.

We'll talk numbers later. I'll open my wallet later. I'll take you a look. George, this is my question to you, okay? Sure. You build this ranch. It houses multiple post-production facilities. Yeah, we help lots of films.

Special effects studios. Skywalker Sound. Okay, so- ILM, THX. All these companies that you've created with regular employees of yours. Yeah. You assign them to work on your film in which you hire Tricky Rick McCollum, a man who has self-identified as having the job of making

sure you never have to say, he never has to say no to you, to get you every single thing you want. That's the first time I've heard that word in decades. Okay, so you had complete power. I feel like we've said no previously on this podcast. Many times. Also, Darth Vader said it for 15 seconds at the end of Revenge of the Sith. He said the longest no of all time.

Yeah, because it's the worst thing. It's the worst thing. That's the real tragedy. That's how we know he's the comeback. I also didn't listen on that recording session. Well, maybe you should listen to it because it was a bad take. It was a bad line reading. I said, look,

let's get James Earl Jones in here. Let's have him say it, but I don't want to hear it. And when we edit it, I don't want to hear it. I have an app on my phone. Whenever that word comes up on a podcast or anything,

it deletes it. I hate that word. Well, newsflash, his line reading could have used a note. George, my point here is... I don't even like hearing the word. I don't even like hearing the word. I don't even like hearing the word note because it has the word no in it. George, you...

I hate that word. I don't want to hear it again. Please don't say it anymore. Say yes. I like that. Yes, George. You had complete power over this entire film. Absolutely.

Everyone worked for you, working for companies that you founded. You created new technology to be able to control every single element, splice different performances together into the same frame. And the films are all about how absolute power corrupts absolutely. How the Jedi's are powerful and it has made them arrogant and blind. How Palpatine, his quest for power, is wanting to throw anyone else under the bus. I see where you're going.

You're trying to say that there's a level of irony working here, but I'm saying there's some satire there. And if there's a criticism you have of it, I anticipated it and I knew it and it's folded in there. Your if there's a criticism you have of it, I anticipated it, and I knew it, and it's folded in there. Your reactions are valid, but they're also exactly what I wanted. He's pulling every rug out from under you.

Your argument is that you're satirizing yourself. I can't criticize the film because you were already satirizing your own. I'm saying the films criticize themselves. You don't need to criticize them. The criticism is baked into the cake. If you didn't like something, it's because I didn't want you to like it.

Because I wanted you to have a bad feeling about something so that you would feel the tragedy. I'm sorry that you wanted to feel great about the saga of an innocent little boy whose mother sold into slavery. And then he has a terrible life and causes problems. This is kind of like, what if Jon Stewart had ever gotten Dick Cheney to come to The Daily Show? I feel like the confrontation would have just been too emotional on one side. This is, okay, look. And defensive on the other. You're welcome.

Thank you. We've done 30 episodes now. Do you know what I was saying you're welcome for? What? You thanking me for liking these movies. You were saying you're... I'm saying you're welcome to you saying thank you to me for making these movies because you love them. Okay, George.

Do you have any other questions you want to ask? Look, unfortunately, you have a hard out. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think we have so many. Where are we at? Ask me one more prequel question about episode three. I'll ask you one more question, but I just want to. I can't believe I'm saying this. I'm going to throw this out.

We're doing a live finale show. Yeah. Next Monday. It's at Union Hall. We're going to watch Revenge of the Sith. We always end our season with a live commentary. It's happening the day this episode drops, I believe. Yes. It's a great movie. This Yeah. Next Monday. It's at Union Hall. We're going to watch Revenge of the Sith. We always end our season with a live commentary. It's happening the day

this episode drops, I believe. Yes. This episode will be dropping on the Monday where that night at 7.30 at Union Hall for $8.

We're going to be doing a live commentary with a lot of special guests. Would you have any interest in coming with us and doing the commentary with us so we can get into this more?

Because I think I need a week to calm down. You really need to calm down. I need to calm down and come into it with fresh eyes and just really try to understand you

and it'll be a longer format. We'll be able to go into it in depth. Listen, you're saying a lot of words. All you needed to say was you're showing episode three

and I'm there because it's a great movie and I'd love to watch it. Bank. Ladies and gentlemen, George Lucas will be at our live show at Union Hall.

And he won't be the only guest. Monday, November 23rd. Other guests are a surprise. I haven't told David because if I tell David what I have planned, he'll tell me not to do it. Yeah, I'm a little afraid. Griffin was texting me last night.

We were planning and I was like, so what's going to happen? You're like, I want to catch you off guard. That was how he put it. Yeah, David knows nothing of what I have planned. But George, you will be there. I don't know now. I don't know what you have planned. We're just going to watch the movie.

All right. It's going to be fun. Brian De Palma's not going to be there, is he? Do you want him to not be there? I prefer not. I love Brian, but I'd prefer if he wasn't there. I lived in the same building

as him growing up. Really? We're old pals. Yeah, I spent a lot of drunken elevator rides with Brian De Palma. He was drunk. What's everyone's favorite

Brian De Palma movie? Phantom of the Paradise. Okay. It's hard to say. I mean, Untouchables is good. I'm probably a blowout fan myself. Maybe Body Heat. He makes good movies.

Okay, George, just to put some sort of button on this, okay? Because we're going to talk more about episode three next week. And by next week, I mean this night for the people who are listening to it on the day it drops. Correct. I don't even know why I'm asking this. Ask the question. It's masochistic. But as you said, you sold the film to Disney.

You sold your entire company. Yeah. The franchise. Everything. Everything. Everything except Jar Jar. I kept him. Yeah.

Crazy. So I could do my show monthly at UCB East. And I was like, they actually, that was a condition of Disney's. They said, we'll buy them, but not if it includes this. I said, sure, that's what I wanted anyway. It was sort of a, it was a great moment. We both realized what we wanted and didn't want. Well, I think it's very telling that they said that,

and I think you're not reading into the subtext of that demand on their part. But, George, sold it to Disney for a large sum of money. What, $2.6 billion? Something around there? Which you donated mostly to charity? A lot of money to charity. I'm a good guy. I think the question we would be remiss to not ask...

It's weird to hear people say, I'm a good guy. It's weird to self-identify that. Dialogue's better if it's clear. Go on. George, the question I think everyone wants answered, and we have you here as a guest, as much as I'm afraid of the answer, I have to ask it. Is there any chance of an episode four?

Disney has the franchise now. One would think that they might want to kickstart it up again. Is there any chance of making episode four? Well, I'm not involved in it, but episode seven is coming out in December. Episode seven? What are you...

So they're just skipping four, five, and six? I pitched some ideas. J.J. Abrams is directing it, but I have not had it. Hold on one second. They're coming out with a script in December?

So they're in pre-production? No, no. It's done, apparently, and it's going to come out. I'll be seeing it like an audience member with everybody else. Wait, but so you're going from episode three straight to episode seven?

Yeah, are they going to fill in the blanks later? What's the idea? That's so weird. What? No. Good what there, Ben? Well, I mean. What?

The episodes four, five, and six are available on Blu-ray. Those are all. You can see those. Okay, George, I know this has not been a very civil interview, and I've been fucking with you a lot, but this is not funny. Ben's got something. Ben's got something. Old Ben's got something.

Old Ben's peeping on something. There's an episode four. No, there isn't. Griffin, you're not facing his screen. I'm seeing it. There's a Darth Vader mask. It's called The New Hope. It came out in 1977. That's impossible, Ben.

That's 30 years earlier. That's impossible. I hate bits, but we have talked a lot about there's one movie in your canon that we kept forgetting the name of. Yeah, but I thought it was another character drama. Guys, there's two others. It was like THX 139. I know.

What are you talking about? Just look. Actually, no, you've got the dates wrong on that. Those were rough drafts of movies I came out with. The real episodes four, five, and six came out in the 90s. Do you understand how hard it is to believe anything you say with answers like that? What are you talking about? I understand where you're confused.

In the 1990s, I finished the original trilogy just a few years before Phantom Menace. A New Hope is episode four. Empire Strikes Back is episode five. Return of the Jedi is episode six. They came out the same year. I released three movies in one year, brand new, and those are the movies. I did test screenings in 1977

and the early 1980s of episodes four, five, and six. They went very well. Probably the most successful test screenings in the history of film. You really refined them in 96. But the actual movies themselves came out in the 1990s, and that's why you might be confused. So just to clarify, the first film chronologically came out in 1999. Yes.

Second came out in 2002. Third came out in 2005. Oh, that's right. In 1997. That's right. That's the year. You released, quote unquote, three movies simultaneously that were shot in the 70s and 80s. That's right.

We shot them in the 70s, but not all of them. We finished them. They took a long time to make. We did some test screens. It went very well. In 77, re-released for a second round of test screen in 78. Then rather than completing the fourth one, we said, let's make the second and third one. Do test screenings of those,

and then eventually we'll release the final version of those in 1997. And now there's a seventh one coming out in a month. But I don't have anything to do with that. But J.J. Abrams, creator of Felicity, directed it? Creator of Felicity, screenwriter of Regarding Henry. Joy Ride. He wrote Joy Ride. Can you process

this, David? This is huge. You know, I just have one thing to say, which is that I hate bits. Me too. George, just quickly, just very quickly. I know you have to leave. Just because there was so much information, I processed it once. We can keep talking for a second after George goes. Just one time quickly to process, and then you can leave.

What are the three titles of these films? Because there was a lot to process at once. I need to hear the new. I just found out that three new Star Wars movies exist. Star Wars, A New Hope, the special edition. Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, special edition. Star Wars, Return of the Jedi, special edition. Those are the three titles of the three movies.

You're a monster. Okay, thank you for being here, George. And they follow the same exact plot lines as the prequels. They mirror them. I did them ring style. I don't even know what to say. Oh, I mean ring style. Is Darth Vader in them?

Yeah. Wait, is Jimmy Smits in them? No. Ah, shit. Dexter Jester? No. Watto? No.

Ceballo? DC-14? No. Gra Gra? No. So none of our favorite characters. Wait, wait, wait. I have a question.

What about this Chewbacca guy? Is he in it? Oh, yeah. I brought Chewbacca back. God damn it. Are you fucking kidding me? Yeah. Okay, George, thank you for being here. We'll see you next week. First movie's about...

Hey, who's this kid? Maybe someone's... Maybe someone's special about him. Get out of here. Is there any bad business? There's some bad business going on. Really bad business. Wait, the romance in the second movie is the third one depresses? George, I can't. I can't contain my emotions right now. You have to... November 23rd, we will see you live on stage at Union Hall.

I can't. Can I tell you one thing? Yeah. Just one. Your parting words. One thing. I'm red with anger right now. I look like producer Ben.

Scarlet with rage. No, I should save it for when we watch the screening because there's one thing I do want to point out, a parallel in episode three, but it's very complicated. I just want to say thank you for devoting this podcast to these films. Films of George Lucas. You're welcome. I'm glad you enjoyed them so much. I know that you think you didn't, but clearly you did.

The real mystery was that you loved them all along. Okay, great. Thank you, George Lucas, for being here. When can people see your next talk show? December 4th, we're going to be pre-celebrating both Life Day and the... Oh, that's another thing you should know. I made a holiday special. You made a holiday special?

I wasn't actively involved. It's kind of like a JJ-type project where I wasn't actively involved, but they still got, similar to Episode 7, Harrison Ford and Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher were involved in the holiday special. That's the last time they did a Star Wars thing that I wasn't controlling. Harrison Ford? Wait, he's in these movies?

Yeah, from K-19, The Widowmaker. I can't talk about this. George, we will see you Monday, November 23rd, 7.30 at Union Hall. I'm excited. Me too. We're going to talk for a few more minutes, right? We're going to talk for a few more minutes.

We can talk for a few more minutes. I hope you don't mind, George. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you so much for being here. Strange magic. Me too. We're going to talk for a few more minutes. We're going to talk for a few more minutes. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you so much for being here. Strange magic. Strange magic. You bring some strange magic to our world. On DVD and iTunes, high definition download. You can buy Strange Magic.

It's a great film if you're looking for something for Thanksgiving holidays and can't watch the news. Thank you, George. Sorry if I was unprofessional. I'll take a chill pill. It's just a lot of emotions to process in one afternoon. Thank you, George. Sorry if I was unprofessional. I'll take a chill pill. It's just a lot of emotions to process in one afternoon. Thank you. Okay, David, first of all, I'm sorry. Ben, I'm sorry.

I know I didn't handle that as well as I could have. That was really tough. That was tough, yeah. Look, you were cornering the supervillain. It felt like I couldn't let him go easy. It was like we had Blofeld in the room. I could not let him off easy. But let's...

I actually, I want to apologize too. As a producer, i should have known this we all should have done some mistakes this makes a million things make more sense it does actually a lot a lot is clear now and i am so glad that we can talk about it now here's here's the thing okay we have made it clear that this is not a star Wars podcast, that we're not building a larger franchise here. OK, we want to go on to other projects. We were just going to take I'm getting your phone off. I'm sorry.

I just love these Star Wars cards as much as I hate these movies. We're really, really down on this franchise. Right. I mean, obviously, there's something drawing us to them. George does have a point, but we don't like these movies in any conventional, normal way. I can't imagine 4, 5, and 6 being good. Okay, plus a Christmas special, plus a J.J. Abrams movie coming out next month. We just found out there are five more of these. So we were ready to move on.

We have all these plans. Right? We have a lot of plans. We do. We do. And let's say- We talked it over with the bigwigs, with the higher ups. At UCB, we've gotten a thumbs up.'ve got a big plan coming for January, February.

We'll let you all know about that soon. If you have suggestions of other things you'd like to hear us cover, griffindaypresent at gmail.com or tweet at us. We're looking for new miniseries ideas. Passion projects by lunatics and trying to do investigative reports to figure out what was happening. I don't know if I can go through this again, watching five more of these things. It's so brutal. And to do 10 weeks for each of these things when it's like, I mean, first of all, he's saying.

The very idea, like, is giving me a swirling headache. And four, five, and six are rough drafts. It took him 20 years. There's no way those movies can be good. He's out of his mind. He's out of his mind. OK, what Fast and Furious is the only franchise where the fourth and fifth films get exponentially better than the first three. I disagree.

The fourth film isn't as good as the first or the third. I would go five, seven, one, four, three, two. Wow, six is low. Oh, I forgot six. I would go five, seven, one, six, three, four, two. What if we just do one week for each of these movies? Yeah, well, look. We just peel them off.

That is a relief. Okay, let's just do one week for each of these movies. Let me propose something. They're going to suck. There's no way this franchise gets good at film number four. Here's a little timeline for you. Yeah. Next week, we've got our live episode.

Yes. It's gonna drop, it's gonna drop hard, it's gonna be great. Then, you know, I'm just taking a look at my calendar. I don't know what you're doing,

but I'm just taking a little look at my calendar. Yeah. We could do episode four. Okay. And then, you know, and then episode five. Yeah.

Then episode six. Okay. Then episode seven. When does that come out? Well, I mean, if everything goes according to plan. I'm saying when does that movie come out? Apparently it comes out December 18th. Wow, that's perfect timing.

Yeah, I know. It's weird that worked out so well. Wrap it up with a Christmas special. And that would be right around Christmas. You're saying that that would be released right almost on Christmas Eve. I hate bits, but this sounds great. That sounds like, I mean, really careful planning

on someone's part. I'll say God. That seems very smart and well-structured. Yeah, which is actually... I'd like to take credit for it, but... No, you gotta give it up to the big guy. The big G upstairs. I'm not talking about Georgie Porgie. I want to make clear to people we did not plan these things well. They just sort of worked out for us.

Clearly we didn't plan them well because we didn't know that these movies fucking existed but like it's not even a bit no it's not even a bit we're not doing bits we hate bits here but that's the plan that's the plan okay next week live show and then Star Wars we're gonna go four five six

seven Christmas special episode four a new hope wow what a dumb title yeah you know I mean I can't fall for that again. A New Hope. It's like, oh, this time it's going to be different. No, it's not. It's going to be the same thing. Empire Strikes Back is kind of interesting.

We don't even know who the Empire is. And why did he shoot it in the 70s and 80s? It doesn't make sense. He shot three films in the 70s and 80s. He says he didn't release them. Then released them as a soft release. Test screenings. Yeah, what is that?

An altered versions. His final cuts came out in the 90s and then he released 1, 2, and 3. Who would make movies like that? You know, he did say prequels though early on in the interview. I just, I didn't call him on it. Okay, I don't know what that means. For the sake of clarity, from here on

out, the Phantom Mass Trilogy will be referred to as the Original Trilogy or the OT and 4, 5, and 6 are going to have to be the sequel trilogy. Yeah, they'll be the sequel trilogy. They'll be the sequel trilogy and I don't even know what to call this J.J. Abrams thing. Well, it's probably just continuing. Maybe it's starting a new trilogy. So it's the sequel sequel trilogy. Yeah, okay. Trilogy.

Uh, wow. I mean, this is a huge day for us. Oh, boy. Guys, I'm wiped. Merchandise Spotlight, they made a Baron Papanoida action figure. It was part of a, yes they did. It was part of, yes they did, it was part of a Lucas family gift set, and it was all his children and him, the characters they played. So it was

Jed Sakasa, and his daughter who was next to him, and Georgie Porgy, and I think his other daughter played something in some other scene. What's our running time, Ben? Where are we at? 55. Okay, so. It's the shortest episode yet. I mean, we just have a lot to process this is as short as our fan fiction

episode which I think was I mean it's already our politics episode which was that is a similarly frustrated point yeah I think we all need to take a chill pill and think

about what happened here today and embrace ourselves to the future because we have a rough road ahead of us but it's gonna be one week each we're gonna breeze through these movies

because we that's the plan for they're not we can't don't despair because there's more around the corner. You're not going to have to listen to us talk about shitty movies. We'll sweep through these later Star Wars movies. We'll do them fast, and then we're going to get to the good stuff. They're going to suck. We're going to be concise about how they suck, and we're going to move on.

Oh, they're going to suck. They're going to suck. It's impossible that they don't suck. George was involved. Yeah. It's impossible that they don't suck. What about American Graffiti, though? That's an anomaly.

At this point, that's an anomaly. Indiana Jones. Can I say something else? Yeah, but you had Spielberg. You had the director to counterweight that. Can I say something else? That's true. Yeah.

I watched Rocky last night, because I'm getting ready to watch Creed, which I'm seeing tomorrow. Seventh movie in a franchise that started in the 70s. That's true. Yeah. That's a good point. Yeah.

And I burst into tears at the end of Rocket. I've seen it before, but not in years, but it's a great movie. I have to rewatch it. I burst into tears. A lot of our friends who are film critics have seen Creed and say it's a masterpiece. Yep. Some are already being contrary, though, but yeah. Well, those people sound dumb.

We love loving movies on this podcast. We do. Unfortunately, we're going to have to cover four more that we hate, five more that we hate, but then we're going to be done. Done, done, done. Fucking 2015, wrap a bow on Star Wars and move on to greener pastures. Ben, final thoughts? I mean, what do you even say at a time like this?

I don't know. I really, I mean, I'm kind of worried of the live show and dealing with George. It's going to be tough, Griffin. I'm worried I'm going to have to restrain you, Griffin. I'm going to be on my best behavior. That was too much. Yes, I know it was. I know it was.

I know. I know. I whiffed on that one. That's me. I got egg on my face. And I hate eggs. Not for the first time. There's nothing I hate more.

I like eggs. I do it once a season, and we held off this long, and now I've done it. I've messed up. Okay, I will say. This is my once a season, and we held off this long, and now I've done it. I've messed up. Okay, I will say. This is my fan fiction. This is my politics. I was just looking at my notes here.

I did want to ask about the Palpatine's face change, but. Maybe we'll get to it. We'll do it at the live show. Yeah, it'll come up on the live show. Look, if you're listening to this podcast at the moment it drops, then go online, get tickets, and go see the show that night. And if you're listening to it any day later than the day it was released, smell you later, cheesecake.

Sorry, buddy. Yeah. You'll have to listen to it. It's the best show. Yeah, with astonishing special guests. I mean, now we know George above board is involved. David, I know a lot about what's happening. Really?

It's legitimately a really good lineup. It's going to be really good. Okay. It's really good. Why don't you tell me Because you will tell me not to do what I have planned No what are you gonna do I fully support all of it

So don't Don't be concerned David It's gonna be great Thank you producer Ben Although you know Really should have done your research a little bit Alright you're right You always only choose to google he's a busy man

he produces a lot of great UCB podcast network shows he does and you should listen to all of them you should rate, subscribe, review digital, UCB digital there's so many good ones so you're going through a breakup he's laughing right now I love this, this is really fun

oh there was a review I want to read one, oh come on it's from Racism Street, 5 stars Yep. He's laughing right now. I love this. This is really fun. Oh, there was a review. We're reading one new review? I want to read one. Oh, come on. It's from Racism Street. Oh, yeah. Five stars. Yeah, let's read this one.

Have you read it? Yeah. Five stars for reawakening the long dormant memory of my high school history presentation, ironically titled The Evolution of Man. The goal to capture the essence of slavery in America. The result? In America. The result?

A poster featuring nothing but the famous March of Progress drawn in America. The result? In America. The result? A poster featuring nothing but the famous March of Progress drawn in reverse. Yes, a black man is the starting point, slowly but surely devolving into a chimp. An apt and biting condemnation of colonial era white patriarchy, I insisted. Dude, you can't draw that, they said.

Griffin, you're not alone. Ben, cut this whole thing. Well, not to give myself a Messiah complex, but, you know not alone. Ben, cut this whole thing. Well, not to give myself a Messiah complex, but it's been suggested that perhaps I die for the sins of my listeners, that I'm willing to take the bullet symbolically for the listenership at large. So you're welcome.

Thank you, Racism Street. I say to that review. And if you don't know what we're referring to, you should listen back to the podcast. Or don't. You actually don't have to listen to that episode. Otherwise, I apologize for that really horrible image. You don't have to listen to that.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. Come see our live show. Rate, subscribe, review. George Lucas, I'm going to go take a nap. Have a beer or something. And as always. And as always. Episode 4, 5, 6, 7, Christmas special.

I got a bad feeling about this.