Blank Check with Griffin & David - A Profile Of Jar Jar Binks And The Gungans - The Phantom Podcast

Episode Date: April 28, 2015

This week Griffin and David delve into the character we all know and love: Jar Jar Binks. How does an outcast of the Gungan society go on to save his people? The answer might just be tasteless comedy and a dash of racism. Would Jar Jar Binks’ character be less offensive if developed as a noble savage rather than a goof that exclusively speaks in broken english? Did George Lucas really think he was gonna get away with it? Remember Jar Jar is for kids, right? Plus, Griffin talks merch where he spotlights the Jar Jar Binks Pez “handler” and why Gragra is more deserving of our attention. And dear listeners, if you have your own theory on what the Phantom Menace is really about, please send an audio recording explanation (1-3 mins) to [e-mail] and it might get played on an upcoming episode!

🎵 Hello, Phantom Mennonites. I am Griffin. I'm David. Welcome to the Phantom Podcast. Griffin and David present the Phantom Podcast. That's what we present. A podcast where we talk about Star Wars Episode I, The Phantom Menace. The one film that George Lucas got to make. In his epic...

Trilogy? Saga? I don't know what he wanted. What did he want? I don't know how many movies he wanted. Is he still alive? He is. Crazy. He is. I don't know i don't know what he wanted what did he want i don't know how many movies he wanted is he still alive he is crazy he is i don't think he's doing great but uh as we all know star wars episode one the phantom ass was the one star wars movie that was ever made yeah that's the only one and that's all we're going to talk about and if you imply there's another one we will uh look at you askance i say. Yeah we'll we'll we're going to blockade your

trade routes. Oh we will blockade those fucking trade routes. Yeah. And the donut ship. Someone pointed out to me that there I forget who was but someone on Twitter pointed out that there is a connective bridge within the donut ship. You know we were saying it was the donut ship between like the hole in the middle. Yeah there is something.

Yeah I thought it was free-floating. That would be crazy. Yeah, well, I'm just... God, you just have to get in a ship and drive to the center ship and then get out of the ship. That's what I thought. David, you're saying,

oh, that would be crazy. What isn't crazy in a movie that takes place a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away? What isn't crazy? Everything's crazy. I guess so. A galaxy far, far away. What isn't crazy? Everything's crazy. I guess so.

A galaxy far, far away. Okay, I'm bored. A lot of movies take place in different galaxies. A long time ago? A long time ago. You're telling me this is the past? Well, how else will George Lucas know to write about it? Oh, you're right.

Yeah. We can't write about our future. I'm assuming he unearthed all of this information somehow. How long are we talking? A couple years. You think it was just like 15 years ago? In the 80s. Yeah.

But in a galaxy far, far away. Yeah, 1982 in a galaxy far, far away. Right. People don't talk about that enough. A long time ago. It's a period piece, this film. It is, yeah. It was set in the past.

A long time ago. And you say films take place. Not a lot of films usually films take place in this galaxy it's just it's just far away in this galaxy yeah that's true like it's like boise a lot of movies take place in boise far away in this galaxy things to do in denver when you're dead that takes place at a further part of this galaxy that's true um stars episode one the phantom mass is a film with a lot of haters, a lot of criticisms that surround it.

Since it's a release, this podcast exists to try to not quell those criticisms. No, neither to refute them, just to give them more analytical grounding. We're trying to really get to the bottom of this movie with this one question that we're trying to answer every week. One question. What is The Phantom Menace about?

Now, when people talk about this movie in a negative light. There's a lot of bile. There's a lot of bile. And there's one subject that that bile usually circulates around. I think that when this film came out, the initial reaction, the initial negativity, was mostly directed this way. Right. And we have addressed this. Yeah.

We've talked about it. But we've hesitated to do a full episode yet, because it is such a sensitive subject. But I think, you know what, David? This is episode six. It is. Gloves are off.

We gotta do it. We gotta ask the questions. No one dares ask? About Jar Jar Binks. We have to answer the questions that no one dares ask about Jar Jar Binks. Add to the best we can. This week is a profile on Jar Jar Binks and the Gungan race. Gungan.

Well, George Lucas calls them Gungans. He calls them the Gungans. Everyone else calls themungan race. Gungan. Well, George Lucas calls them Gungans. He calls them the Gungans. Everyone else calls them Gungans. Gungans. Gungans. Including them. I think they refer to themselves as Gungans. Well, they're Gungans.

Gungans. Shout out to my boy Boss Ness. Yeah, there's three speaking Gungan parts, right? Boss Ness. Captain Tarples. Captain Tarples. Jar Jar Binks. And Jar Jar Binks.

As we've covered many times in these past episodes, two of those three Gungans made up my holy trinity of favorite Phantom Menace characters. And the third being Watto. Watto's number one with a bullet. Right. We haven't really talked about much either. Yeah, Watto though. Wow.

Then Boss Ness, I'd say, is coming up the rear. And so Tarples is right in the middle there? Tarples comes in at number 3 Oh, he's number 3 Whatever, it's fine Watto, Boss Nass Captain Tarples, who's number 4? Tarples sneaks in at number 3 What about TC-14?

She's number 4 It's gender inequality I'm talking more about who jumped out to me watching it the first time She's number four. Oh, damn. Damn. She's number four. It's gender inequality. It is. No, I'm talking more about who jumped out to me watching it the first time as a boy. Fair enough. So TC-14 wasn't on your mind when you were nine years old is what you're telling me. TC-14 has been the breakout star of our recent rewatches. That's true.

That's true. The ten times I've watched this movie in the last 12 weeks have revealed to me that she is the most fascinating character. Yeah. The first time she didn't jump out to me that much because I was a boy. I didn't know. I knew so little of the world and the ways of women and droids.

Captain Tarpal snuck on the list mostly because of the... You saying the big doodoo now. That's right. He's the leader of the Gungan... Well, no, whatever. He's a captain of the Gungan army. Military leader. Boss Nassus is the boss. No, I wasn't saying he was the leader of the Gungan. Well, no, whatever. He's a captain of the Gungan army. Military leader.

Boss Nass is the boss. No, I wasn't saying he was the leader of the Gungans. Right, the Gungan army. He's the leader in the Gungan army. He's a leader. But Jar Jar Binks outranks him, as I discussed a couple episodes ago. Boss Nass, is that the official title? Boss, I believe, is the honorific, yes.

That's his title. Like Queen Amidala, Boss Nass. Let's do a little Wikipedia search here. Does he have a longer actual name? Oh, no, that wasn't my question. Oh, if his name is like Richard Nass? No, my question is, that's producer Ben on the laugh right there. Yes, his name is Rougar Nass.

No, my question was, was he elected? Oh, that's a good question. How does one become boss? His name is Rugar? Maybe. Rugar Nass. Rugar Nass. Yeah, Rugar Nass.

Wikipedia goes so deep that if you search for boss Nass, it says- There's two entries. It also says, do you mean Rugar Nass? Like we're plebeians who would call him boss Nass. Yes, he was a boss of all the Gungans. So boss is the, you know, it's the title he gets. And he held a bitter prejudice against humans. But does it have election?

Boss is tenor. I'm getting to it. He was an army sergeant, then an engineer, then an energy miner, then he was the head of small businesses. And then he won the big nasty free-for-all, a grueling physical challenge in an annual Gungan Festival of Warriors

three years in a row. And so he was elected with a super majority in a landslide boss of the Gungans. Okay, so it is a vote. Yeah, he's elected. But it sounds like your physical prowess has a big impact on whether or not people vote for you. The big nasty free-for-all is apparently very crucial in the Gungan society.

God, the Gungans. Three years in a row. Okay, so there's a quote at the top of this Wikipedia page, as there often are for the character entries. It's sort of a choice quote from the character. It sums them up real nice and clean. Here's Boss Nass' quote. Boss Nass's quote. Yousa no thinkin' yousa greater than the Gungans?

Meesa like-a this. Maybe weesa being friends. Yes. Do you want to try to say it as Boss Nass, though? No. Great. Yousa no thinkin' yousa greater than the Gungans? He goes, Gungans? He might actually say it like that.

Gungans. Meesa like-ungans? He might actually say it like that, Gungans. Me so like this. Maybe we so being friends. He's like, maybe. And he always goes like, he does that a lot. Yeah, the great Brian Blass coming up with fucking 15 different fucking vocal tics. Yes. But this gets to the first thing I think we need to address with Jar Jar Binks.

The speech pattern. Okay. The language of the Gungans. Sorry, George. Goongans. Because the Goongans ostensibly speak English. Yeah. Or at least they speak basic, whatever the language that is being spoken in this universe.

Right. But we never hear them speaking. We don't speak them in another language. We don't hear them speak another language like we would with, say, Watto. Watto speaks another language at times and it's subtitled. R2-D2 talking totally in beeps. A very undeveloped

character in this film. He fixes the hyperdrive. That's about it, right? He's fucking out of there. He's in the Naboo Starfighter. What does he fucking do? I don't know. But there's no scene where they're in front of the Jedis and then they go like, Oh, we said sidebar.

And then they talk to each other. Yeah. That's true. Right. So they speak the language that Naboo speaks. Their modified basic universal language is broken. By our standards of English, it's very broken. It's different.

Yes. It's very different. It's like a thick dialect. Yes. One could argue, not just in the dialect, but in, you know, dialect is one thing, you know, certain words No, you're saying they talk like children almost. Yes. Yes.

Well, saying Yusa no thinking Yusa greater than the Gungans. Right. It's beyond dialect. Not just are you modifying, because I'm saying it in my own voice to make it clear how it was written. Okay. Yeah. Not just is you getting turned into Yusa, but the structure of that sentence is incorrect.

It is. It's childlike. Then again, Yoda also speaks in a childlike structure, sort of. Yeah, but he uses the right words. Do you know what I'm saying? No, I understand. This is a hat on a hat. Like, Yoda takes the right words and he mixes them up.

The syntax is wrong, but the words are right. Yes. Right. The effect is... The hat on a hat. like that thank you uh the effect is that um it makes them sound very uneducated right yes right even a character like boss nass who is very regal supposed to be in charge of everything um yeah and who is meeting with the royal the queen yeah the royal family yes queen. Yeah. The royal family of Naboo.

It makes him sound like a big old dummy. Now, at the time the film came out, the year 1999... Mm-hmm. Year of our Lord, 1999. Mm-hmm. When I was 10 years old, and I saw it, and people were telling me, Hey, this movie's really racist. What are you talking about? Those are aliens. So even at the time were saying to you like this is

fucked up this is fucked up yeah I remember my babysitter asking me if I thought it was racist and I was like what do you what parts of it are racist the things that I have since come to understand that are common knowledge for anyone who is older is that uh for a lot of really bad periods of especially our american culture i'm excited to hear you explain this racism in this yes yes uh the the uh history of minstrelry yeah in this country yeah black face performances white men putting burnt cork on their faces and doing a song and dance routine, making fun of just how implicitly stupid black people are.

That was pretty much the cornerstone of what blackface was, right? I'm not saying that's what I think, but that was, it was like, look at how goofy all these blacks are. Yeah, and sometimes black people would play these roles in blackface. Sometimes white people would.

Right. The only way black performers could get ahead was to be like, hey, I'm in on the joke. But there was a certain sort of performance and dialect and type that you were playing. Right. And I'm using the word stupid specifically because the cornerstone of it was they would always speak in really broken

English. Yeah. Because it was like, oh, these black people, they're uneducated. They don't know proper English. Everything they say sounds really, really goofy. And the way it would sound often is, yousa no thinking yousa greater than the Gungans.

Mesa like this. Maybe wesa being friends. Maybe wesa being friends. Which he's trying to say, I propose a formal alliance between our peoples. Right. Yeah, it's a big moment in the movie. Right.

It's where whatever tension between the Gungans and the Nubians, the Nubuians, is being resolved. Right. When he says, I already forgot it, maybe we subbing friends. Yusa no thinking, Yusa greater than the Gungans, Misa like this, maybe we subbing friends. There we go. This is a man elected unanimously, you said? Super majority was the word he used. Maybe not unanimous.

Yeah. But really, really big, yeah. But fought three battles to the death in order to win over- No, no, just feats of strength, I think. Okay, well, battles to the death in order to win over the approval of his people. He clearly is a master negotiator, a brilliant politician. Yeah.

As you said, he's making a huge move here. Not only that, the film's sympathies clearly lie with him. Yes. And with the Gungans. Yes, but the way he phrases that move makes him sound like a baby. Right?

And that was a lot of minstrelry, and blackface was making black people sound like children. Right. Uneducated, illiterate children. And this is really, really uncomfortable stereotype. No, it is. And it's it's interesting because it's I think we were talking about this. George Lucas has a long history of like contributing to sort of causes in the civil rights movement. His wife is an African-American. It's not like he's going into this movie thinking, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to subtly bring back a minstrel show in the form of science fiction. And that's what's so unsettling to look at,

is that as a child I was like, this movie isn't racist. As a kid you just think Jar Jar Binks is a clown character who's funny. Well, people said to me, I went, how is it racist? And they went, Jar Jar Binks is an offensive stereotype of black people. People said that to me as a 10-year-old, right? Yeah. I went, that's not true. No one talks like that.

He's an alien. Black people don't talk like that. Sure. You had no context for what was being discussed. Right. And then like in high school, I became really obsessed with Mansfury. I was trying to like get to the bottom of it. Wow.

Yeah. I was trying to solve the world's problems I don't think you succeeded no through a 10th grade paper that was titled back in blackface um and I got a b-minus uh it was a terrible paper that's a great title if I ran for president be the first thing that came up you would just be disqualified immediately it was just so I think if you ran for president this podcast might be the first thing that came yeah they just have to play all the nemoidian clips tied together every time i did that voice um no i was i was as as a teenager i was like really really obsessed with racism and the history of racism in this country and i thought i was going

to write a paper that would solve all of it single-handedly and so i spent like a couple this is like my big project in history class that year i spent a couple months watching and reading as much as I could about the history of menstruating in this country and watched a lot of Amos and Andy. And Amos and Andy is like a big cornerstone of like it was a highly successful radio program and that TV show that lasted for years. A common misconception about it was that it was all performers in blackface. Most of the cast was actually, on the radio it was white men. When it went to TV, it was predominantly black actors. Right. And there would be maybe one character.

Because your lead characters were black. Yeah. Andy and Andy are black. Yes. But they were very much this stereotype at the time of these uneducated, simple-minded, get-rich-qu quick scheme focused, goofy men. And the broken English that they spoke in

is very, very similar to how Jar Jar and the Gungans speak. And that's what's uncomfortable. Like you look at something like Transformers 2 Revenge of the Fallen We should do a podcast about it. I'd love to do a podcast on that. You're talking about the

the two idiot like uh ice cream truck i believe their names are skids and mudflap yeah and they're like robots with gold they have gold teeth they talk about bling and they can't read i remember that that's revealed late in the film with like i can't really read and you're like And the way they speak and the lingo they use is very much reflective of like hip hop culture. Sure. Yeah. Modern day hip hop culture. There's sort of a stereotypical cartoonish. And I think Michael Bay says, well, the robots are meant to be black.

The robots, robots don't have race. And it's like, yeah, but you know what you're doing. You're making these robots sound and act like a movement that is predominantly made up of african-americans right that's what you're doing right and so that is not the case with phantom menace it's not like george lucas is making a race reflect the way a race of humanity behaves today he's specifically making a character behave in the verbiage of an artistic medium that was created solely to embarrass and belittle an entire race. You know? I do, but with this added, there's also a bit of a patois that's somewhat Caribbean-like as well.

The accent has that inflection to it in some of these characters. a bit of a patois uh that's somewhat caribbean like as well you know like the accent yeah uh has that uh inflection to it in some of these characters and i guess they're like island peoples and they're sort of like i mean they live underwater but that's right and like they're more primitive quote unquote and so you know then the naboo people and i don't know all the associations about that in the commentary where he's saying like, oh, it's like the Vietnam War and these like primitive people are winning over the superpower. Like he thinks it's a good thing.

Yeah, but I also- And so I think he's trying to underline it that he's doing it with the worst possible whatever you want to call it. This isn't a funny episode. This is us actually having- No, because these are tricky subjects. I mean, people always talk about a a lot especially when it comes to like

you know things with dancing like dancing with wolves or avatar whatever sure how much they hate the stereotype of the noble savage yeah the noble native american type right yes okay here's a primitive people but they're purer than us the more noble they're in touch with the spirits of the earth and the elements the winds and the water other they can see through the bullshit exactly and here we come with our machines to chop down the trees and oh we're so awful yeah right they you know guilty there's a guilty sort of like right yeah and the white man the outsider comes in and he learns from them how he should be living his life right um george makes this interesting choice to have the primitive race

also be really really goofy really goofy and silly and childlike yes but also integral to the plot so now i want to interject and just say that i think what is off-putting to me especially is the fact that isn't Jar Jar kind of for kids? Yes. Yeah, that's true. And he openly talks about that, yes. And so you guys are even talking about the history of just like finding this kind of stereotype. Yeah. Made me think a lot about Looney Tunes.

Uh-huh. Because that especially, I mean, that's, you know, an old show from a long time. Not from, wait, from a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away? I think it was in our galaxy. Okay. Well, Space Jam makes it very clear that the Looney Tunes world is not its own galaxy. It takes place in the core of our planet. Okay.

But, yeah, all I was going to say. That is canon as part of the Star Wars universe. I mean, all I was going to say is, like, you find in Looney Tunes propaganda, especially around World War II, like terrible stereotypes against Asian people. True. Yeah. So there's just some kind of there's something very off putting about the fact that it's almost like he's fitting into these characters that are even just a movie that's kind of for kids. Well, yeah. And then young Griffin Newman is is like, I don't understand what you mean.

Racism. There's he's an alien. Well, yeah, and then young Griffin Newman is like, I don't understand what you mean, racism. He's an alien. I don't get it, but there's a subtle sort of... Well, I think there's also this sort of comedic, commedia dell'arte of stereotypes, you know? And the same thing within commedia dell'arte, it's like, oh, there's the sad... There are these archetypes that we have. Looney Tunes is tapping into this sort of language, the old Looney Tunes, where it's like, this is how rich people act.

Right. You know? Yeah. This is how Southern hicks act. And it's like different socioeconomic classes, different races. You know, you encapsulate things. And some of them are less offensive where it's like, okay, a French person chain smokes and wears a beret and has a striped shirt. And a baguette.

And they're snooty. And they're sexually aggressive. They're sexually aggressive and they're snooty. You know? Yeah, okay, a French person chain smokes and wears a beret and has a striped shirt. Sure. And a baguette, and they're snooty. And they're sexually aggressive. They're sexually aggressive and they're snooty. You know, like these kinds of things. And some of them are really, really uncomfortable to watch. You know? Like, I don't think reducing entire groups of people to like four or five visual signifiers and two or three characteristics is ever good.

But some end up being a lot more offensive than others. And we as a culture have been trying to move away from all these easy go-tos. And if you watch a lot of dumb, broad comedy, especially comedy made for children, you watch things like, you know, the live-action Nickelodeon shows or Disney Channel shows, and not racially, but at least culturally, they are still trafficking in these broad stereotypes of, like, this is what a popular girl is like. This is what a jock is like. Sure stereotypes of like, this is what a popular girl is like. This is what a jock is like. You know, this is what a rich guy is like. Even what like, you know, and even like, oh, here's sort of a flamboyant sort of swishy kid.

Yeah. Things like that. Yeah. And a homeless dude and like all this stuff. Just different types of people, you know? Yes. Reducing any type of person based on their experience. Look, can we agree?

We don't like reducing people to stereotypes or entire races. But my point here is, what's weird is that George is in no way reflecting the actual culture that we live in. He is just making a character that is a heightening of a stereotype that existed a long time ago.

I get what you're saying. In a galaxy far, far away. But he's doing it in a sort of Looney Tunes way where it's like, well well we need a funny character so he'll do everything funny because that's the problem with Jar Jar Binks he can't fucking open a door without it being a calamitous hilarious

experience okay so here's a big Jar Jar question to you okay you have some questions yeah would Jar Jar be as offensive if he was to use the cliche a noble savage if Jar Jar was not offensive if he was, to use the cliche, a noble savage? If Jar Jar was not such a goofball, if he was not so prone to accident and messing up our hero's best intentions and best laid plans, and he still did speak in broken English,

and he was childlike, I'm not saying he'd be good. Yeah, I don't know if he'll be better or worse. It would be different. It would be bad. Right, because there's something about the fact that he's goofy and he's bad. He's goofy and he fucks everything up. Let's examine his arc briefly in the film. So Qui-Gon rescues him when he lands on Naboo from being knocked over by a droid ship, I guess.

And so he's like, I owe you a life debt. And he just tags along with Qui-Gon. But shall I say it? And Qui-Gon calls him a local. Shall I say it? And Qui-Gon calls him a local. Shall I say it? The life debt thing feels a little like, oh, you own me now. Does it not?

Well, especially a little bit, but it also feels like the laziest fucking story mechanic because it's like Qui-Gon just kind of like, you know, pushes him in the ground so something doesn't knock him over and then he's like great I have an excuse to just stick with you this whole time. All he does is just push him a little bit out of the way.

It's really not a big deal at all. And really it's more because Jar Jar's in his way and he's like the fuck out of my way. Right. But considering that like the you know the good part. I know what you're saying. Yeah it's like indentured servitude. It's like, well, for a character that already is being compared to Step and Fetchit

just because of his behavior and his dialect and everything, you're also going to have him be waiting on... Now, to be fair, the only slave that Qui-Gon actually owns in this movie is Anakin Skywalker, an actual slave. And he doesn't ever really seem to want Jar Jar to be around. Like, Jar Jar's the one who's like, I'm going to hang out with you.

And Qui-Gon's like, it's not a big deal. But it also makes it more incredible is like, Jar Jar's kind of like, please let me be your slave. Well, also because, I mean, you know, as we, you know, Jar Jar was banished from his, we learned quickly, he was banished from the Gungan homeland. Because, what, he knocked over a bunch of shit or something. Because he's clumsy. Don't they actually say he was banished because he's clumsy? Yes. Like early in the movie.

He's like, Mesa, clumsy. So he needs a friend. He's a little clingy. Yeah. Yes. So anyway, they rescue him. i just want to analyze this art quickly they rescue him they go to the they go to the gungan underwater city yeah with him almost immediately even though he'd just been banished so it's right he's i don't know he shouldn't be

going back but anyway um at the gungan underwater city uh boss nas is kind of like i don't really give a shit about you, but for some reason they give them a planet, a ship anyway. Does Qui-Gon brainwash him? No. How do they get the ship through the planet core?

Whatever, they convince him. Good old human communication. And Jar Jar goes with them. I think Boss Nass thinks that this is basically a death sentence for them anyway, but they get through there. They navigate around some monsters,

and then Jar Jar just kind of hangs out with them for the rest he doesn't really do much else no until the final climactic battle where he's back in the Gungan army and he helps defeat the droid by mistake by like falling over a bunch yes catapult yeah there's one scene where he's got like a half a droid torso like caught on his leg and he jumps around and he accidentally shoots like six. It's anytime he accomplishes anything, it's by accident. And it's through this sort of Buster Keaton,

uh, Pratt falling routines, except as I think Connor pointed out a couple episodes ago, Buster Keaton, or maybe you put it out. Buster Keaton never speaks in charge. It won't shut up. My favorite thing about Buster Keaton is how he talks all the fucking time.

Oh my god, he's so annoying. And he's in it all. He's in the whole movie. He never is not around. But it is an interesting, and by interesting I mean terrible choice on George's part to have him be both like a savage, quote unquote,

and have him be an idiot. And not really have him be an idiot. And not really have a moment of redemption, more just his idiocy tricks everyone into thinking that he's actually a genius. He's less sophisticated to everyone else.

He doesn't teach anyone else anything. And at a certain point, just through law of numbers, sort of, Through dumb luck. His fucking up eventually. You fuck up as much as Jar Jar fucks up. Eventually something's going to turn out well by accident. Yes.

You know? Now, that's an interesting point because Jar Jar is an idiot, but the other two Gungans that we know are fairly competent. Like, Boss Nass is certainly in charge of an entire race of people. And Captain Tarples, he seems to know what he's doing. So Jar Jar, even within the context of the Gungans, the Gungans aren't weird or stupid, except they talk in this kind of baby language. Jar Jar is both talking in this obnoxious language

and really, really dumb. Okay, so this is my question number two. obnoxious language and really really dumb. Okay so this is my question number two if the other Gungans didn't speak in the same language would Jar Jar be less offensive? So if

so you're saying Jar Jar still talks like he talks. He goes oh Misa oh you great life dad and then they go down and boss ass is like I'm so sorry about Jar Jar I think that would be really bad because then it would be like Jar Jar literally was a mentally infirm, like a disabled person who had been cast out of the Gungans. But that's why I kind of prefer it. Like on some sort of short bus, a one-way short bus out of Odogunga.

Well, I mean, talking about reviled movies that you and I like defending, I don't know where you stand on this one, actually. I am a noted defender of Gore Verbinski's The Lone Ranger. I have never seen The Lone Ranger. I like it a lot. And when it came out, everyone was... A lot of people, I feel like, yeah, there's been some movement on that one. I like Gore

Verbinski. Me too. Well, well. But I like his stuff that I like a lot. Yes, I agree. Rango. Yeah, Rango rules. So good. I'm a big fan of The Weatherman. We disagree on that I like a lot. Yes, I agree. Rango. Yeah, Rango rules. So good. I'm a big fan of The Weatherman. We disagree on that one. We do.

But it's been years. Mouse Hunt's good. Mouse Hunt rules. Yeah. We're going to be talking Mouse Hunt. The Lone Ranger. Yeah. When it came out, everyone went, oh, fuck, why is Johnny Depp playing a Native American?

Sure. And Johnny Depp would go, oh, well, I'm actually 164th. And I was like, get the fuck out of town. Who cares? Right? And a lot of my friends who saw the trailers went, I find it really offensive because here's, you know, this race has been so mistreated throughout our history. Yeah. And now we have like a white actor playing a Native American more visibly than any Native American has gotten a chance to show themselves in a big studio film in however

long. Yep. And it's all him doing like silly pratfalls and wide-eyed like stares and slipping and falling off stuff. The Lone Ranger you meet Tonto. Spoilers. He teams up with the Lone Ranger about an hour into the movie he's still the only

Native American you've seen. Okay. And about an hour maybe an hour and a half into the movie the lone ranger gets taken back to tanto's tribe okay and there's a scene where the lone ranger wakes up in a tp and there are like the indian chief is there yeah the native american chief is there and uh you know surrounded by a couple other members of the tribe and he wakes up and he starts talking to them the way he's had to talk to Tonto. Right. And he's like, look, me, come long way, looking for.

Yes, sure. Like, says the whole thing, and the chief just goes, Tonto's been a problem in our country. Right, I see, I see. That's a nice turnaround. And it's not just played as a joke, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He spends a lot of time there, like at their base. I don't know.

It's almost like Tonto is this undesirable stereotype they wish they could be purged of. Yes, exactly. Exactly. It almost feels metatextual. Now, that works a little better, again, because those are actual Native Americans, whereas the Gungans don't have the exact analog. Right. But I know what you're saying.

Yes. But it's an interesting question. It's an interesting question. I like the idea that they go to the Gungans and they're like yeah, uh, yeah it's crazy that Jar Jar's the person you met, but okay. Like, yeah, I mean, if you want a ship through

the planet core, we'll give it to you. Just you know, yeah. Even if they just had the same voices, some of the same slang words but spoken proper syntax you know maybe just because because throughout the history of this country it is so comedically lazy and gross and ugly to make these stereotypes of african-american people being uneducated. Look, we should say, Jar Jar Binks is played by an African American actor. Yes.

Boss Nass is not. He's played by a white actor. Tarples isn't either. I think he looked it up last week. We did look it up last time. I don't remember who plays him. But yeah. I think Achmed Best has said, like, it's not a racist thing.

He said, I'm just doing what I'm doing and it's funny. I'm trying to find the exact quote. I don't know. There are voices that aren't associated with certain ugly moments in our history that you could have chosen to take on. Well, the other problem is you've got the Neimoidians already. They're in the first 10 minutes of the movie and they're, oh, ho, they're the worst. Watto's a Jew.

Watto is this floppy-nosed. Yeah. yeah we have yario poof off to the side representing the bad bunch meeting up with republican senators in airport bathrooms the problem is that the human white characters yes well there's some uh you know uh mace windu and captain panaghi there are some uh uh people of color right and notably those two characters have no character development whatsoever they're just people who say things but still the humanoid characters basically are the smart civil characters

yes and all the enemies are aliens except for Darth Sidious I guess right and all the aliens behave and speak like like middling tracks off of early Mickey Rooney records. That's the problem. It's not just like, I could make a voice

right now that would have no association to anything. But then it's like every one of their voices is like, oh right, that's the Chinese waiter sketch. We gotta talk about Watto too, because Watto's just crazy. You know who drew my attention to Watto was David Schwimmer. Oh yeah, David Schwimmer hates Watto. He spoke out about Wada really early.

We'll talk about Wada. This is just a race relations episode. But we have to talk about Jar Jar in Tatooine. Yes, but can I just say this for one second? No, no, that's fine. Because this is my Tonto pitch. What if when they went down to the Gungan base, right? And Boss Nass is there, and he goes,

Oh, so Yusa want to make an allegiance with Misa. This is a thing that Wisa can discuss can I don't think that you said Misa and we can survive I'm sorry I'm not I'm not into it you gotta throw the baby out I don't think you can do it I wish they didn't sound so dumb you know when they're saying smart things the way it's written is so

dumb that's the annoying thing it's like the whole movie is the Gungan triumph the closing shot is the Gungan triumph. The closing shot of the film is Boss Nass holding up a big glowing orb of something or other and it's obviously this like celebration and it's an alliance

between this planet's warring races. Yes. And so it's not like the movie has a problem with the Gungans. Why the fuck? What's George's point? But it's like like the movie has a problem with the Gunkans. Why the fuck? What's George's problem? I fucking know. But it's like we said in the commentary episode,

George sees this as a primitive race, and he wants that to be true. That's what's problematic is the association. I know, but that's what I'm saying. It's like he wanted to have this race come off as primitive. Yes. And that's why I think he's making a lot of these choices that are devastating to anyone's enjoyment,

any grown person's enjoyment of this film. Agreed. Devastating. Tatooine is a lot of stupid fucking Jar Jar hijinks. Yeah, that's where it's at. Because on Tatooine, we cut the cast in half, basically. So we've only got Qui-Gon, Amidala, and- Not Amidala, Padme.

Padme Nibiru. Qui-Gon, Padme, and for some insane reason, Jar Jar Binks. Oh, you're going to leave Obi-Wan on the ship and you're going to take Jar Jar with you? It's nonsensical because it's like, okay, we've landed on this desert planet controlled by a race of slug gangsters. Yeah. Let's bring the Jedi Master. Good thinking. A handmaiden. I don't know why you're insisting, but I guess you just want to avoid

Whatever the queen says, guys. Whatever the queen. There's the queen. Here's Padme. Queen, Padme. Queen, Padme. We're going to take Padme. There they are in the same room together. We're going to take Padme. Two totally different people. Spoiler alert. It turns out to be the queen, guys. We talked about it. Fucking stupid. And then, oh, who else should we bring?

Maybe the pilot of the ship because the ship's grunted and he might be someone who knows about fucking hyperdrives. No, no, leave him. Let's bring Jar Jar Binks. Yeah. Even bring up boring old Rick O'Lay. That's what I'm saying. Rick O'Lay could be like, oh, yeah, that's the hyperdrive engine we need. Right.

I am the pilot. Right. Panaka gets stuff done. Or Panaka! Ricolet knows the ship. R2 even was the one who fucking went out to try to fix the hyperdrive in the first place! And also, also, it's a desert planet of sand. It's a desert planet. Jar Jar is an underwater creature.

Yep. This is the worst place for him to be. He should get in a bathtub and just take it easy until they can go home but nope out he goes with them and if you go well oh god he owes Qui-Gon a life debt he's gonna follow Qui-Gon wherever he goes if it's a real life debt and if Jar Jar's respectful of that life debt then Qui-Gon should just go

hey Jar Jar if you want to help me out do my taxes just fucking stay in the ship and do my taxes I think the Jedi are taxed okay but I'm just saying give him a menial task. No, I know, of course. Is Jar Jar falling into the shower? How close does he have to be?

Anyway. I forget. Is it disgust? Is it like Jar Jar's like, I want to come to it. No, they just cut to them walking out of the ship and Jar Jar's in tow. He's part of the skeleton crew now. He's the posse. So they go to Mos Espa, the city in Tatooine,

to try and get a hyperdrive because their hyperdrive has been broken by laser fire. The only one who has one for sale is a Jew. The only one who has them for sale is a two and a half foot flying fat lizard Jew with stubble and a big floppy penis nose. He loves money. And like four teeth. He's like, and he talks like this. And he owns two slaves, at least. Two slaves.

A mother and a son. Yeah. And he's also a degenerate gambler. And is there anything else about Watto? He has a chance cube. He's an orthodox Jew. And he's kind of nice sometimes to Anakin. They have like kind of an understanding,

but at the same time he owns him and treats him pretty badly. He must have been a default father figure to Anakin. Exactly. There are a couple moments where he's like, then you can go home, and Anakin's like, yippee! All these hijinks. You know, David, one of the reasons we started this podcast was so that we could spotlight some of the characters

and the sidelines of the Phantom Mass who jumped out to us and go on Wikipedia and find out how deep the rabbit hole goes. And I think this episode has finally provided me with a moment to talk about... You want to talk about Gragra. I want to talk about Gragra. If Watto, Bosnass, and Tarples

were my Holy Trinity as a 10-year-old, I'd say my Holy Trinity now is Gragra, TC-14, and Gragra. now is Gra Gra TC-14 and Gra Gra I am all about that Gra Gra now just to give you

people to give our audience you people you people a reminder of who this is you might remember that at a certain point in the movie Jar Jar's walking among the markets of Mos Espa right after he stepped in poop and he goes oh five fucking minutes on that In the movie, Jar Jar's walking among the markets of Mos Espa. It's right after he stepped in poop.

And he goes, oh! It's five fucking minutes on that. Right, he steps in poop, then he almost trips, and he falls over. He grabs some food. Is it a living thing? I can't remember. It's like a frog almost or something. He pops it in his mouth.

Yes, there's like a lizard-type creature hanging at a little stand. Mos Espa is like an open marketplace, right? Yeah. Mos Espa. There's all kinds of things you could say about the sort of third world of Tatooine and the way that's presented, and this is one of the things. It feels a little like an open-air Moroccan market. Yeah. And these lizards are on display.

Yeah, so he just grabs one. There's a very, very, by our standards, ugly creature. Yeah, sort of somewhat scary, heavy set creature with big eyes and sort of horns instead of hair. Super sharp teeth. And teeth. With a big knife. Jar Jar sees one of these lizards. He grabs it with his tongue and tries to eat it.

This creature's like, angry, and Jar Jar's like, angry. And Jar Jar's like, oh, no, no. And they step away. I believe what Gragra says is quoted on her Wikipedia page, which is, Okay.

You want my wonka? Ka goba whoopee whoopee. That's her one line. Right. That is her one line. Which I believe means you have to pay for that. It costs three whoopie. Yep.

Seven whoopie. Sorry. That's what the currency is. Jesus Christ. So we were playing a game and we started playing this podcast. When we started planning out this podcast. Who can come up with a more obscure character name from Recall to bring up here. And then I was sending you a bunch of pictures of Grog Grog. And I realized I should find out who Grog Grog is, right?

So we just described the entirety of Grog Grog's screen time. That's it. She says that one line. Oh, right. That's the first thing we found out. Yeah, it's a female, which is not clear. Presents as male. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine first thing we found out. It's a female, which is not clear. Presents as male. But that's fine.

So that was a surprise right off the bat. Her species is a Swokes Swokes. A Swokes Swokes, okay. That's what the species is called. Here's Gragra's biography. You guys gotta just read this entry, by the way. You should have it open. On Wikipedia, read along with us.

In 32 BBY. Gragra, G-R-A-G-R-A Gragor demanded that Jar Jar Binks play the seven... Whoop whoopie? Whoop whoopie? I don't know. For a gorg. That's what those lizards are called. The gorg he ate from the market, salsa bowl, but then

started to bully Jar Jar as revenge for the latter, inadvertently ruining his meal by spitting it out into the pot. Oh, right. Jar Jar then spits out the thing because Gragor is like, uh... Gragor left the issue unattended. Okay, that's what we know it out into the pot. Oh, right. Jar Jar then spits out the thing because Gragar's like, uh, Gragar left the issue unattended. Okay, that's what we know. That's the film. Here's how Wikipedia then moves on with this.

Gragar regretted her harsh behavior and on later reflection, realizing that perhaps it had been caused by trouble at home. There's nothing to say. Just carry on. She spoke to her husband, Gragnac, Only to discover that he was As emotionally distant as he had Always been

This is on the internet for you guys to read, right now This is canon This encouraged her to sell enough gorgs Including sauces created from them To buy her own ship so that she could leave her husband And her life of Quiet domestic Oppression behind Becoming a symbol to gorgmongers Everywhere leave her husband and her life of quiet domestic oppression behind,

becoming a symbol to gorgmongers everywhere. By the way, that's her title. She's a gorgmonger. That is what her job is. She eventually left Mos Espa to work elsewhere, which caused the gorg population in the sewers to grow considerably over the following years. Homeless people often fed on these gorgs. Why isn't she the lead character of the fucking movie?

Or at least why aren't we seeing all of that in a spinoff? This is the Yaddle conundrum again. Here's a character with an interesting arc. Oh my god, what a rich, rich backstory. An interesting arc. She's like the Norma Ray of gorgmongers. Not only that, but she is like the fulcrum point in masa espa's gorg like community the entire economy changes yeah without her they overrun the city and they feed the homeless this is a

fucking movie and forget that like uh quiet domestic oppression. This is the hours. Quiet domestic oppression. That's heartbreaking. Symbol to gorgmongers everywhere. What ship does she get? Where does she leave? See, I love the salty, and it's not like she has an abusive husband. Her husband just doesn't really appreciate her. What's his name again?

Grognak? Is it Grognak? Who does not have a Wikipedia entry. By the way, let's get on that. Oh, boy. Played by, who plays Gragra in the film? I don't know if this is, this is not credited. Anyway.

Gragra's the best. So you guys should just check that out. But yeah, that's Jar Jar. Jar Jar in inadvertently. It's sort of a microcosm for everything Jar Jar does in this movie, where he's a fucking idiot, so he steals some food from a market. Like, what is he, dumb? Pay for the food.

Pay for the food. It's not free. Pay for the food. And by stealing this gorg and eating it and getting Gragra mad, she realizes, you know what? It's time to confront some harsh realities. One, me and my husband fundamentally should not be together. Two, I'm a fucking gorgmonger.

Yeah. I can scrape some money together. Yeah. And get the fuck out of here and be a gorgmonger hero to the galaxy. For once in my life, live the way I want to rather than how I think I'm supposed to live. Three, what am I? Like, just selling gorgs? Why don't I make some sauces?

Yeah. Some nice gorg sauces. Four. All this sells raw gorg? This shit is great as a sauce. Distill this to a puree. Four. Maybe I'm killing too many gorgs.

Yeah. I think I'm going to get out of here and let the gorgs have their time on Tatooine. Yeah. You know, maybe it can be the time of the gorgs. Oh, and guess what happens if you let the gorgs have their time? Maybe that's what episode two is, Attack of the Gorgs. The homeless people finally have food to eat. Oh, God, that'd be such a good sequel.

That would be so great. Maybe that was his plan. That's probably his plan. Maybe that's what he wanted to do for episode two. You know what? That's probably the plan. That was probably the second movie. Little merchandise spotlight here while we're on the subject of probably the plan. That was probably the second movie.

A little merchandise spotlight here while we're on the subject of Grogro. Please. And this infamous scene. Literally, if you're looking at your phone while you're watching the movie, you could very easily miss this scene. Maybe 4.5 seconds on screen. It's very short. Grogro probably is on screen in terms of... It's one second.

One second. There's one shot. That's it. Yeah. Man, did it leave an impression on in terms of... It's one second. One second. It's one shot. That's it. Yeah. Man, did it leave an impression on the two of us. Oh, yeah. I've talked about how in the past the Hasbro company paid $100 million for the rights. Yes, yes. To fund this movie, essentially.

Right, to fund this movie, essentially. And so they let that trickle down to all their brands that they had at the time. Hasbro was the main company, but they also had Tiger Electronics. You may remember. Of course. The little handheld games. Battle Toads. Yes, sir.

There was also an offshoot called Cap Candy. I don't know it. Okay, so Cap Candy was kind of candy toys. Okay. It was like toys that dispense candy. Yeah, like a Pez dispenser? Well, great, great point. I had a bunch of Pez dispensers.

Cap Handy. Cap Candy. Captain Handy. Cap Handy is my father's name. Cap Candy is the company. And they teamed up with Pez, cross-branding opportunity, to create what they called a Jar Jar Binks Pez Hander.

Okay. Now we know what a Pez dispenser is. Sure, it's a head on top of a... Yes, a figural bust of a character that we know and love. That if you push the head back, dispenses one piece of sugary candy. Right.

The candy is kept in a long, sort of rectangular holder that sort of looks like their body. It has feet, but it's not really. It's more, it's impressionistic. It is. Right? But you love it when you're a kid.

You love it when you're a kid. I had a tongue when I was a kid. It's simple. It's classic. It's lasted for 60 years. Yeah. For Star Wars, not good enough. For Episode I, the Phantom Menace, not good enough.

We have to reinvent the wheel. I really want to see this thing. You have your phone in your hand. I want you to see how complicated this is. Okay. To create the definitive pez handander for Star Wars Episode I, of all the things they could have chosen to depict and realize and adapt into candy dispenser form,

they chose Jar Jar stealing a gorg from Gragra. Oh, my God. There's Gragra. And her gorgs. This is like a three-walled diorama. This is like a Barbie house-sized toy. It's like a mechanical diorama in which the pezzes, which are stored in the back of the base, hidden behind a gorg, are mechanically, when you push a button, it's not just the simple spring mechanism. Of the head yeah when you push a button it sends out one pez onto gragra's

plate and jar jar's tongue is there to receive it yeah and jar jar mechanically rotates his body so that his tongue spins over to where you are presumably on the other side with your human size hand so you can catch the pez now you know one might say about a Pez dispenser is that they come with the candy and you could just unwrap and eat the candy. Yeah. But, you know, it's enough fun that you put it in the thing and you get one at a time. This is too much work. I would just eat the candy.

This has to take at least 10 seconds. It doesn't even come with, like, an additional bag or anything to carry it around in. That thing's huge. No, you would have to mount it on your, like, mantelpiece. Yeah, you put it on a mantelpiece. It's a conversation piece. Like, if you put this on a coffee table, like, you would then have room for, like, one cup of coffee.

The end. That's it. Now, David, we love Gragra. Of course, there she is. Because we love her backstory. But what fucking executive at Cap Candy said of all the moments that we could turn into a Pez hander, we're going to reinvent the game.

Pez is too simple to eat. Let's add fucking motors and batteries and push-button operations where characters have to hand you the fucking candy. Of all the moments to depict, let's pick the one where Jar Jar steals a grog from Gra Gra. Well, they knew it was a powerful moment. It was. I mean, they were right. If they were right about one thing.

It sounded like I was angry, but I actually agree with everything they said. It was the right decision. Anyway, so that's Gra Gra. And Cap Candy just quickly also made, I think, the single worst piece of merchandise I've seen in relation to the Phantom Menace, which is a Jar Jar Binks lollipop. And I use that term loosely, in which the handle is plastic,

and Jar Jar's head is on top. Okay. And there's sort of a push button. It's almost like a push pop at the bottom of it. When you look at it, it's all plastic. It just looks like Jar Jar's head at the end of a stick. Okay. And when you push that button, Jar Jar's mouth opens up super wide like he's a Muppet.

Like he just hinges at the jaw and his head splits in two and his tongue pops out and the lollipop is the tongue. Oh, I've seen this before. Jar Jar Binks has a fruit-flavored tongue. And so this was... That's really gross. Kid goes into Toys R Us. They're at the checkout counter.

They've already made their big purchase of the day. Yeah, and they're like, I want that. Oh, it's an add-on purchase. Here it is. It's just a dollar. Mommy, please. Mommy, please. I love Jar Jar.

They don't even know what it is. They go, Jar Jar on a stick. Whatever. I'll give it to you. And the parents are appalled and aghast as they watch their child push a button and begin making out with Jar Jar Binks. They made a toy to enable children.

It's not a toy, it's candy. Yeah, to French kiss Jar Jar Binks. It's a French kissing Jar Jar machine. Oh, boy. That was a heated one, fellas. Did you have any more Jar Jar Machine. Oh boy. Okay, here's... That was a heated one, fellas. Thank you. Did you have any more Jar Jar questions?

Yes. Okay. Here's my big one. All right, okay. Would... The sins of Jar Jar... Yeah. Him being offensive,

a reductive stereotype based off a stereotype. He's a stereotype of a stereotype. He's not a stereotype of a human behavior. Yeah, or of a Gungan. Right, he's like a quote of a quote of a stereotype. He's not a stereotype of a human behavior. Yeah, or of a Gungan. Right, he's like a quote of a quote of a quote.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hats on hats. Okay? His ineffectiveness as a character, his unimportance to the plot. Yeah, we've barely talked about the fact that he just is, like, he plays no real purpose in the movie.

All of this. All the reasons why people hated Jar Jar, right? Because he's offensive. Yeah. Because he's stupid. Yeah. Because he's a blatant attempt to win over children who don't need winning over. It's Star Wars.

It's a movie about wars and the stars. It's already exciting for kids. You open with laser swords and fucking robot battles and stuff. The jadees. You don't need Jar Jar. Okay, what's the question though? Would all of this be forgiven if Jar Jar, the ostensible

comic relief character of the Phantom Menace, were funny? Oh, that's a great question. Now it's a big question because I'm saying what would it take to make him funny? So you're saying that he remains this sort of irritating stereotype and this clownish nuisance to the plot, but he's just performed so well that you can't help but sort of find him really hysterically funny?

Well, Connor brought up his Captain Panaka theory. Whereas if Captain Panaka was a little more roguish and not interested in being part of the rebellion. The movie would be a lot more interesting if he was there commenting on everything. Yeah, he's just like, oh, this is a bad idea. Relatable character. Yeah. But in his current incarnation, Captain Pinaka is just boring. Very boring.

He would be more interesting if he was funny. But as it is, he's not a negative as it is, he's not a negative character. No, he's not. He's for bad. Jar Jar is here explicitly to make us laugh. Yeah. His hijinks, his broken English, all of it is meant to be funny. Yeah.

Because he doesn't serve any real purpose to the story, it feels like George only put him in the film because he went, we got to lighten this affair up. Right. It's a heavy movie. We got to lighten this affair up. And I think few things are more painful to watch than failed comedy. Yeah, of course.

People hate watching failed comedy. Because failed drama, you don't know how to react. It's bad. It's lifeless. Yeah, but it doesn't upset you, really. It's more just like, well, that didn't work. But Matt Walsh of the UCB4, creator of The Upright Citizens Brigade brigade the namesake of our podcast right now has a quote that i i like to repeat all the time where he said comedy is the only

artistic medium other than porn that requires a physical reaction from its viewer in order to be a success. I might have misquoted him there. But I get what you're saying. But the idea is if a porn movie doesn't make you hot and bothered, it's not working. You can't go, oh, well, it was well shot and well constructed. It didn't work. Right, right, right, right. And comedy, likewise.

It's there to make you laugh. It's there to make you laugh. Yeah. And if you see something that's meant to be a comedy, you see someone who's meant to be a comedian, and they say some interesting things, but it isn't funny, it feels like a failure. Yep. You go, well, I like what they're doing, but it should also be funny on top of that.

Yep. And every time Jar Jar does anything in this movie, it's like the movie holds for laughs. And, like, there's multiple scenes where you're like, this scene is only here to make us laugh. The character's only there to make you laugh. He has no other function. When he, for example, gets his tongue numbed by the pod racing thing. That's just to make people laugh. It's not necessary to the movie.

When he steals a gorg from Grogor when he steps in doo-doo. It's just to make people laugh. When Qui-Gon grabs his tongue. Oh, boy. What else does he do? The only time he really is matters to the plot is at the beginning when he leads them to the Gungan City and the end when he defeats the droid army. And by the way, when he defeats the droid army, it's in ostensibly a funny way. Yeah, absolutely.

Rather than give him a noble victory, he's doing goofy pratfalls and slipping and throwing things by accident. He's learned nothing. He's the idiot he always was. Right, but it's meant to be a joke. Everything's meant to be a joke in the movie. I know, I know, I know. Amidala's triumph is powerful and serious and well executed. I know.

Amidala's triumph is powerful and serious and well executed. Jar Jar's triumph is a fucking calamity that he just happens to succeed at. It's accidental and it's played for laughs. Yep. And is that perhaps- The answer is no, I think. The most offensive thing about Jar Jar is that he's a character that exists only to be funny. Yeah, but he's not funny. And beyond the fact that he tries to be funny through dragging up old fucking dusty, offensive, evil cultural stereotypes, he also just isn't funny. He's not funny.

He's also just not a funny character. I don't think he can be funny. Maybe. A total rewrite? Like, literally, like, to the bones of the script. A page one rewrote. I'm pretty sure if someone rewrote the script, they'd be like, lose the Jar Jar character.

Of course. Make someone else funny. Of course. Like someone else who's also a real character, make him funny. Don't make him an idiot. Don't make him stupid. He'd be clumsy,

but not like clumsy and moronic and childlike. I hate the clumsy thing though. Cause it's like, it's like in movies where, you know, it's like that lame rom-com stereotype where they can't think of how to make the female lead funny, so they just have her fall over a lot. Yeah. It's like Jar Jar sometimes is like, you have two perfectly good wide feet.

You can't stand on them. He's got the widest feet I've ever seen. He's got these big sort of clawed heavy feet. Yeah. He can't. Ben. I've got a two-partered heavy feet. He can't. Ben. I've got a two-parter for you gentlemen. Okay.

All right. Is there a subtler way to establish the traits of these characters we put into question without using stereotypical tropes? Or is the issue more telling to the larger problem at play in this film? That because so much effort is spent on exposition and driving the plot along, that proper character development is ignored. Okay, just quickly, before we answer that, I want all of you to know

that producer Ben was reading that. That was typed up on his computer screen, just so you don't think he's the poet laureate. And you're wondering why we're stumbling over our words for an hour and producer Ben gets up and doesn't miss a beat. I think that Ben has a very good point about the exposition. He does have a very good point.

Ben's really smart. He's the poet laureate of this podcast. Because you're right. Like, no one gets to be developed as a real character in this movie because there's way too much time spent on like, so, you're a Jedi, I'm a queen, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

They just have to. So it's like, oh, well, Jar Jar will just fall over a Jedi. I'm a queen. You know. They just have to. So, it's like, oh, well, Jar Jar will just fall over a lot. Yeah. And he's got to talk like a fucking idiot or else we're not going to get that he's stupid. He's the dumb funny one. He's the sleazy one. Yep. Yeah.

All right. That's true. That's the problem. George Lucas is like, well, I'm making like a Flash Gordon cereal. Yeah. Everyone has to conform to a really obvious Looney Tunes type archetype just so we get it and then we can be like, oh, I have a hyperdrive for you.

And George Lucas, no expert at comedy, in trying to create the perfect quote-unquote funny one. Although American Graffiti is funny. Yeah, but in a humanistic sort of like slice of life kind of way. But still. Yes. But here he's trying to create a fully comedic creation.

Just a powerhouse of comedy, right? It's true. And in doing so, he just tries to reverse engineer things that are funny in other people.

Yeah. Okay. The Fool, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Falstaffian Fool is a classic comedic archetype. Buster Keaton, Charlie Chaplin, Harold Lloyd. The Falstaffian Fool is a classic comedic archetype. Buster Keaton, Charlie Chaplin, Harold Lloyd.

The pratfalling sort of physical genius. The power risk of, you know, clumsiness. Or Jackie Chan, having its own beauty. There are those Jackie Chan movies where he basically gets into fights even though he doesn't know what he's doing, but it's just a bunch of hilarious mishaps that lead to him beating up Aruba people or whatever right

all these things he tried to I mean in a way the sort of childlike naivete of Chauncey Gardner sure you know

yeah yeah yeah like all these different elements that work so well in some of the greatest comedies ever made he just took

the surface elements of like oh so you have a guy who can barely speak English is really stupid and falls down all the time that will equal fun

and will give him 50 minutes of the movie yeah yeah and'll give him 50 minutes of the movie. Yeah. And we'll give him one of the biggest narrative arcs in the film. Yeah. Do you have a second question, Ben? No, that was the two-part question. And I think we answered them as best we could, not as eloquently as Ben.

The answer is cut fucking Jar Jar out of the movie. But here's the worst part. Yeah. Every week we try to answer the one central question we're coming back to what's the movie about what's the movie about and we answer it through the prism of of what we focused on that week the recent rewatch with our eyes on this element yeah I think the movie's kind of about Jar Jar yeah well because we've been talking about a good way it's kind of about Jar Jar we've been talking about it as like you know George says well it's Amidala's movie

told through the eyes of the Jedi okay maybe but um yeah like as I said it ends with the Gungans it ends it ends with them

you know with Nass lifting the orb Jar Jar has the most complete arc in the movie he starts out the film as an outcast yeah by the end he's raised

to the rank of general he saves them in their battle for independence and there's like peace and they, yeah. But the one problem with that is, as we've said, his actual arc is flat. Because at the beginning of the movie, he's a clumsy

idiot, and at the end of the movie, guess what he is? But that falls on the Chauncey Gardner thing. It's just the perception around him changes. Oh, man. I just feel like it's like, is he trying to say something about like like what fools we are as men and like the the idiocy of recognizing people for their achievements like jar jar is promoted to general just because he helps bring about broker this truce well and so they're like oh jar jar you must be smart well and how fools can rise to power.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, just through savviness and diligence. I mean, Jar Jar just refuses to leave the side of our heroes. It's true. By doing that, he gets promoted. He does nothing right on purpose. He does nothing right throughout the movie. You know, but a broken clock is still right two times a day.

Or in his case, like 18 times a day. Jesus Christ, I think this movie's about Jar Jar. I think it's a very cynical look at how Jar Jar-esque figures have risen to power. So maybe that's why it feels so mean-spirited. Maybe it's a scathing attack. Yeah. No, I don't think so. Powerful figures?

I don't know what the fuck this movie's about. We don't know what it's about, man. We're struggling. Well, I think back to a moment in one of the behind the scenes documentaries on the Phantom S, DVD and Blu-ray, in which George is consulting with a bunch of the special effects people

and they're looking at images and stuff, I think, on the computers. And he looks up at whoever's filming and he just goes, Jar Jar's the key to this whole movie. If we can make Jar Jar work, then the whole movie works. And he was talking about it in terms of the effects. Yeah. That's the key to this whole movie. If we can make Jar Jar work, then the whole movie works. And he was talking about it in terms of the effects. Yeah.

That's the only way he can think about anything. A character like this who's fully CGI, is this integrated into the action, you know, into the environments and all of that. He was like, technically, I wonder if we're going to pull it off. Yeah. But I also think narratively he was asking that question. Yep. And I think that question. Is answered. Yeah. With a think that question. Is answered.

Yeah. With a resounding no. With a big old N-O. Technically, I would say they basically pull it off. Technically, yeah. Yeah. On a technical level, yeah. But the fact that he put that much focus on Jar Jar might be the biggest problem in the movie.

Yeah. No, I think it's the biggest problem in the movie. It's the consensus biggest problem in the movie. It's not just that he's culturally insensitive. It's not just that he's culturally insensitive. It's not just that he's unfunny. But for the amount of time devoted to him, he doesn't do anything. There's no satisfaction watching him succeed. There's no payoff.

There's no payoff. That hadn't been said the first time I saw the movie. I thought Jar Jar was funny. Yeah. You just thought he was funny? Yeah. I used to do a good Jar Jar impression. I didn't either.

I more preferred Jedi's chopping people up with life sabers. You know, I thought he was funny, but I don't know if I ever laughed at him. I was just like, yeah, Jar Jar's fine. Yeah. I think I knew immediately that people had a problem with Jar Jar, and I was like, I don't really care. I walked into it defensively, because everyone was like, this is the hot button character, and I went, he's fine.

What's offensive about him? You were nine years old. I was nine years old. You had not gotten to your 10th grade paper. Back in Blackface. can you show me how to get to Racism Street? That's not what it was called. It had a fucking subtitle. I was a terrible student.

I should have gotten kicked out. They should have kicked me out for that paper. They don't kick people out of that school. Do you know what my thesis was at the end of that paper? Go ahead. That Beauty Shop, the Queen Latifah starring, I argued that it was the most offensive movie ever made. I love that movie so much. We should do a whole podcast about Beauty Shop.

We really should. It's amazing. I don't even remember what my argument was. Oh, God. But I actually, as a 14-year-old, tried to present the argument that Beauty Shop was more offensive than Aimosan and It is not. That movie is triumph on every level.

That's the worst opinion that anyone has ever had. It contains Jaimon Hounsou who plays the love interest in that film. He plays a Nigerian electrician. At one point just says, shout out to Africa. Just apropos of nothing. It's a great moment. Alfre Woodard, Kevin Bacon, Alicia Silverstone. Kevin Bacon is the evil

Nazi villain of that movie. Stack cast. Yeah, Andy McDowell. Yeah. I think... Oh, who else is in that movie? A lot of people are in that movie. It's a stacked cast. Loretta Devine? Am I just dreamcasting Loretta Devine? I think Loretta Devine is in it. I think Octavia Spence? No, or Sherri Shepherd might be

in it? Oh, Sherri Shepherd is in it. Yeah. It's Spence. No, or Sherry Shepard might be in it. Oh, Sherry Shepard is in it. Yeah. It's just a great movie. We can't talk about Bouchop anymore. Oh, man. It's so good, though. Thank you all for listening. I know this has been a tough episode.

Jesus, it's a bummer. We had to go through the mud. Yeah, that's fine. I mean, next. Oh, well, do we want people to write in? Yeah. Because we're really struggling. We're struggling here.

Let's come up with an answer. For what the movie's about. I think going for our season finale in which we will conclude our investigation of The Phantom Menace, which is still a handful of episodes away. Yeah, that's true. But we're coming up on it. We're recording it in advance. We want to outsource our question because we're making still a little progress here. So if you have a theory on what The Phantom Menace is about, please send us an audio recording.

Just record it on your phone or whatever device you have on your computer. Computer, whatever. Three minutes of you giving us your explanation of what you think The Phantom Menace is about and send to our email, which producer Ben knows because he set it up, and it is... RiffinandDavidPresents at gmail.com. Look at that. Look at that. That's our email.

Send it over to us. We'll listen to it. It would be in our final episode. We're going to play a bunch of them. Yeah. Next week, I don't know what we're going to talk about. I feel defeated.

Well, we're probably going to talk more about WADA. Yeah. We're probably going to do a lot more water water though alright as always thank you for listening may the Schwartz be with you oh there we go

oh lord whew