Blank Check with Griffin & David - A Star Is Born

Episode Date: October 8, 2018

On the week of it’s release in October of 2018, Griffin and David discussed A Star Is Born. This episode is sponsored by [Legacybox](https://legacybox.com/check), [RXBAR](https://www.rxbar.com/check) CODE: CHECK and [Dead Man Talking](https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/dead-man-talking/id1436700030?mt=2).

I started writing this song the other day. Maybe that could work as a chorus or something. I'm off the deep end. Watch as I dive in. I'll never meet the ground. Crash through the surface where they can't hurt us. Far from the podcast now. Good. Thank now. Good.

Thank you. Good. She goes in a high register sometimes. It's hard. Hey. Hey. Hey. Just want to get another podcast. Just want to get another podcast. It's actually a little more like, I just want to take

another look at you. It's actually a little less slurred than I... All you gotta do is podcast. You gotta respond. What? I don't want to get in a podcast. David's doing the nose thing. Yeah, baby.

Hello, everybody. I've already done a falsetto rendition of the song. So we got nowhere to go but up from the shallows. Uh-huh. My name is Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. It's a podcast about filmographies.

Directors who have massive success early on in their career give a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby. Baby. Sometimes all you gotta do is trust them. Baby. I really just feel like he's talking to everyone

When he says that To the studio executives You know to the audience To Lady Gaga All you gotta do is trust me That's all you gotta do That's all you gotta do That's all you gotta do Is that what this is gonna be for like the next two hours

All you gotta do is trust me Ben That's all you gotta do David What Just wanna get another photo No just wanna get another look at you He's almost Orson Welles-ian at times The French champagne.

What if this was a movie about her falling in love with Orson Welles at like Paul Masson time? You know what I mean? It's the same. It's A Star is Born, but it's back to acting, right? Paul Masson. Like that. And like the best champagne is It's fermented in the bottle.

I don't know if the mic is picking you up. Can we boost these levels like hardcore? Sure. Fermented in the bottle. I think you mean uh-huh. Uh-huh. So this is. Sorry.

Just want to get a look at you. Just want to get a look at... Okay. Come on. Okay. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate. No, you're right. We should keep it moving.

Thanks, Anne, for Guto. This is kind of a new thing for us, which is like we're... I mean, we're far from the shallows now, but the other thing is that we're... You know, we try to do some new release movies when they come up when ones feel important even outside of the sort of directors jack reacher never go back right when films feel important or a hotel transylvania 3 summer vacation detective pikachu not to spoil a new episode right exactly when it feels like oh the culture is hinging here we're

right we're in the beginning of a shift yes right yeah uh at a fulcrum point um it is i i do uh look at how much i uh have soiled this podcast with my influence and i look at like right almost all of the things go on go on go no when it's like okay you know ben like, you know, it's good for like ratings when we do new movies. It's like, obviously, other than our franchise and new directors, let's look for the ones that jump out. And almost all of them are children's films. Right. Like, it's good for our ratings when we do new movies like Hotel Transylvania. I mean, I haven't looked at the ratings, but was that like a significant, you know, did the Transylvanians roll up?

They did not. Official. I'll tell you something. Great episode, though. Fran Hoffner told me best episode of the year for us. Really? Yes. I'll tell you something.

I heard that Robert Smigel listened to that episode. Are you serious? Yeah. Really? I don't want to reveal my sources, but I was talking to someone. Sandler? Who had gotten into the podcast. Drac?

It was Drac. Who had worked with Smigel and was like, you know, I've been listening to his podcast. They did a whole episode on the whole Transylvania movies. And he was like, wait, people like them? They did? I wrote those in a day. He obviously knows they're successful. But he was like, people talk about those seriously?

I would assume that he thinks that, you know, it's all kids. Like no one, no grownup would care about that. But he's not met Griffin. Right, then he listens to the podcast and he's like, oh, one of these is a kid, right? Is it that light camera Jackson guy? So this is a rare modern release that isn't starring talking animals

that we're going to cover on the podcast. Or about wars in stars. Right. Right. Or about wars in stars. Right. Right. Or DC superheroes. God, we are such children. Right? Yeah.

But in the same way that doing the Hotel Transylvania series, wink, wink, now made Genndy Tartakovsky a director we have to cover from here on out. That's fine. I'm fine with that. We're kind of putting a claim

in this director now. I mean, I think by doing this episode, we're going to have to cover any other films he directs, right? And this guy's going to keep directing movies. I can't wait to see what he does next, because it's either going to rule or suck. He's doing the Bernstein movie. Didn't he get the Bernstein rights from Spielberg?

He's doing the Bernstein. David, I regret to inform you that the Mandela effect has taken over you. Yeah, yeah, no, I know, I know. I was doing a joke. He's doing the Leonard Bernstein bears. But that's a movie that, like, it has died so many times. But yes, you're right, I forgot. He got the announcement.

Right, he seems to be going after aggressively. He wants to get another look at it. But this is a rare example of... Because that's why Fukunaga jumped to Bond right yeah because he had the competing Jake Gyllenhaal which probably would have been a good bet Gyllenhaal's good for it doesn't matter yeah it doesn't matter I mean

I wouldn't have thought Bradley Cooper would be good as like you know a roots rock you know fucking musician hey hey hey this is a rare example and I feel like this has come up in like discussions on the reddit

and such recently you're like what are examples of like first time filmmaker getting a blank check and this is really one of those and it's a big example because it's happening at such a high level I mean A in terms of the budget the freedom they gave him

B in terms of the hype for the movie and what feels like is going to be a fucking insane box office and awards run. And the other examples like this are usually similar leading men, movie stars who are also taken seriously as real deal actors who get to make crazy big debut films

like Dances with Wolves. Sure, right. And partly where they're like, seriously as real deal actors who get to make crazy big debut films like dances with wolves sure right where and partly where they're like let me use i really want to make this thing like that's a dance you know i think studios were like yeah and so let me use all the capital i built up on the acting side right get some money just make the thing i want to make and that movie when it was coming out people called it kevin's gate they were like this is his act of hubris that's gonna sink him and you know the thing is like he wasn't even that big like i mean he was a big deal but it's pretty early in his career that's when he becomes the number one guy after that movie is you think of costner fame right and right but almost all of his i feel like really iconic roles are Dances with Wolves on.

I'm trying to I'm going to take a double look. I feel like that's the crazy box office run yeah take another look. You know because he'd done okay he'd done

Silverado and the Untouchables Field of Dreams and Bull Durham and Field of Dreams so I take it back. He'd had a very big run. Those are three big ones. But then post that he's got Robin Hood

JFK The Bodyguard Those are his biggest box office movies. Yeah. Yeah. Costner. I guess it's biggest box office movies. Yeah. Yeah. Costner. I guess it's right in the middle.

Yeah. Beatty's another example. Sure. But Red's is the one that feels most blank checky for him. And that was second after Heaven Can Wait, which is like a pretty standard type of debut film. Kind of. And I think the reason he directed that is some there's like right.

Like someone else was going to do it. He co-directed it with Buck Henry. Yeah. Yeah. There's some weird story with that movie where i think he was initially just gonna star and right um i think he wanted to do as you say sort of like take a run at directing to get ready for his right stuff um but this is closer to dances of all things and i i don't think there was as much negative press but i feel feel like there was a lot of like, why is Bradley Cooper doing Stars Born Again? Why is Lady Gaga in it? Like, it felt weird that he was making it.

And I remember reading a lot of snarky, like that movie's going to be a disaster, until the trailer came out and then became AFI's number one highest rated movie in history. I mean, that trailer became the number one AFI film ever, right? I think it- 100 years, 100 movies or whatever, right? 100 years, 100 movies? Funny Times for Funny People.

Yeah, Funny Times for Funny People. And Sight and Sound was like, we know we're supposed to wait another four years. The Library of Congress opened their doors. Right, I mean, Ehrlich tweeted like, it's become clear to me that the Star is Born trailer one is one of the most important films

of the decade. But it kind of does of the most important films of the decade. But it kind of does feel that way in terms of like the weird cultural impact it's had and especially for a trailer that's not an event film. So yeah it's like obviously Star is Born is a Star is Born and it was going to be made

but yeah I feel like when it got, well look I'm going to say this as delicately as possible I think I've said it to you before. Yeah. When I heard that Bradley Cooper, actor, celebrity, was writing and directing and starring in A Star is Born. Yeah. That movie, like Judy Garland, Barbara Streisand.

Three times before. Yeah, you know, have occupied the roles before. With Lady Gaga. Yeah. I don't think I expected the movie to look like this i don't either i i thought that was a bad idea no not so much i just thought it would be a a campier movie sure because it was being written and directed by bradley cooper and that's it the boat has left and i'm not talking about it anymore i did not expect a a sort of like, like when the trailer opened, Lady Gaga, more what I expected.

I expected like a stripped down kind of Lady Gaga. That had actually been on my radar. Did not expect Bradley Cooper to look like he had just gone through a shoeshine machine and be all red face and like. You expected maybe more American hustle, Bradley Cooper. Exactly. A glossier, more sort of... How do you describe it?

You know... Well, he's... Over the top. There's a word I'm looking for here that I'm forgetting. Look, I think he's an interesting movie star because he doesn't have one distinctive persona, right?

No. In the way a lot of people do. He likes to... He likes to fuck around, right? But I think one of the things that has become a trademark of people do he likes to he likes to fuck around but i i think one of the things that has become a trademark of his if not the trademark is that sort of like live wire manic angry man energy right right i mean certainly in like i mean the recent things where he's popping up like joy and you know which you know what joy he's actually very understated

so he's so good in that he's the best part of that movie. He is. Yeah. He's been the best part of a few movies. Sort of like secretly. Let's just step back and talk about his career. Bradley Cooper. Because his career is fascinating.

It is. Because he has become one of the top leading men in Hollywood, but it took him much longer than most other top leading men. Yeah, how old do you think Brad's is? 43? I think you're right. Let's see. Yeah, he turned 44 in January.

Nailed it. I just think in terms of his contemporaries. His contemporaries. Who are his contemporaries? Who we got? Like someone like DiCaprio or Wahlberg. In terms of... Wahlberg, yeah. But they were big in the 90s.

That's what I'm saying. He was like a 2000 star. But this is my point. In terms of age, he is the same age as people like DiCaprio, but those people started so young. Yeah, right. Teen stars and Wahlberg, of course.

Like Will Smith. He got his start beating up people with baseball bats. I'm just talking about age class. I get what you're saying. You go like Clooney, Pitt, Cruz obviously are all like sort of a decade

old. Damon's more contemporary with Cooper in terms of age. Is he not? In terms of age he's a little older than him but he got started in the 90s too. This is the point I'm making. The school ties kids are who I'm thinking of. My point is that he is the same age as the guys who got started in the 90s too. This is the point I'm making. The school ties kids are who I'm thinking of right now. My point is that he is the same age

as the guys who got started in the 90s. But it took him longer to pop. Right. I'm lumping Damon in there. Yes. Right. Right.

And Affleck. That's what I find pretty fascinating about him because he is a guy who really just sort of like it took a while. Can you tell me his first film credit?

Wet Hot American Summer. Right. Which he missed his graduation from the actor's studio at Pace University in order to be in that film. He famously is in the crowd asking a question of De Niro. Who is it? Who is it? Tell me. Louis C.K. has one of the many things that Louis C.K. has said that have now been proven to be wrong and disgusting.

Okay. proven to be wrong and disgusting. Oh, okay. He did a bit on Opie and Anthony or something where he was talking about how embarrassing it is on Inside the Actor's Studio when a student asks a question of one of the big movie stars. Right, right, right. And he was like,

if you're one of the kids in the audience at Inside the Actor's Studio and you ask the person a question, you will never, ever make it as an actor. Right. If you're some kid asking fucking Robert De Niro a question, you're never going to make it as an actor. Right.

And there are like four different YouTube clips that now circulate of Bradley Cooper with long hair looking really earnest. There's one where he asked De Niro a question who then becomes his co-star many times over. Penn is the one I'm seeing here. Penn is another one. There are three of them I think. But he was just like a

very kind of serious acting student kid. Acting school kid. Not necessarily someone who was, like, moving to Hollywood. I'm talking about the 90s witch move. Yes, he likes the craft. He was not a guy who, like, you know, moved to Hollywood after high school

and was like, I'm going to be a movie star. He's a guy who's like, I'm going to fucking study for 10 years. Yeah, let's see. He went, he's from Philly. I grew up on the main line, I think. His dad was a stockbroker. Yeah.

He had a thing in his ear as this character did uh that fucked up his ear for a while when he was a kid uh yada yada yada i don't know worked on the newspaper auditioned for the actor's studio james lipton was like do your james lipton impression Can we speak to Jackson Maine? That was not good. That was more Morgan Freeman. Hey. Can we,

is Jackson Maine here with us tonight? Lipton's retiring, right? I heard that. He is. They're going to do rotating hosts for the new season. Not into that. Who should replace him? That's the question.

Orson Welles. Oh. Like, you need someone who is not an actor because then it just becomes bullshit. You know, you need someone who is not an actor because then it just becomes bullshit you know you need someone who is like lipton like this weird fanboy slash teacher type but this is the thing is that like and i think this is a dying breed but both like lipton and the other person like him is robert osborne was robert osborne who were like failed actors who then became like acting connoisseurs

like they were both guys who had like studio contracts and played the soda jerk a couple times and then ended up being like the great appreciators of acting sure um I think it's now just gonna be like fucking contemporaries you know I think it should be Brian Cox in character as Robert McKee that would be great just yelling at people. That's one of my fucking favorite two-scene performances ever. I love it so much. Yeah, two scenes. Great two scenes. The moment that kills me in that performance,

my mom and I talk about that performance all the time. 25th Hour is the same year, right? Brian Cox was like slaying in these tiny roles then. Like he would just pop up in a movie and annihilate. Those are both O2 and then he's William Stryker in O3 and that's when I was like, oh, I'm Griffin Newman, I'm 14 years old

and Brian Cox is my favorite actor. He'd just done LIE. Like, he was just starting to like, Brian is so good in that. He was popping in that weird middle-aged Brit, you know, way

where suddenly they're like, oh, well, we can always use a middle-aged Brit. Sprinkle him in. This is going to be such a tangenty episode but the other thing

that happened with him at that point in his career was I feel like film snobs started being like, you know, Brian Cox was actually the best Hannibal Lecter. Sure tangenty episode. But the other thing that happened with him at that point in his career was I feel like film snobs started being like, you know, Brian Cox was actually the best Hannibal Lecter. Sure. Like that was the other thing. He's not, but he's great in that scene.

But I think his reputation was now like catching up to him where it was like all these filmmakers who had like. Fine actor. Right, right. No, you're right. He was also in The Bourne Identity that year. Another small, excellent performance. So good. And he's in the ring what was

the thing i saw him in recently where he just fucking destroyed it uh pixels oh right pixel he is amazing in pixels everyone watch pixels brian cox rules he plays like the secretary of defense or something there's just some scene where he like screams at kevin james and you're like what is this like in the situation room well that's also the great thing about like Brian Cox was that like before this run where he had his big like sort of Hollywood supporting actor heavy comeback he did super troopers and what came back for super troopers too and he plays super troopers so straight it's clearly like in it he's that sort of Frank Langella type where like he never it's always gravitas. He does not go half on a roll.

There's a fucking Netflix documentary about He-Man that I, of course, watched the second it was uploaded. And Frank Langella talks for like 30 minutes about how he developed Skeletor. And he's like, it's still to this day one of my favorite performances. I miss him. He's got a couple Skeletors in his closet it sounds like. Because the narrative okay. The narrative was

Minus a hundred comedy points? Correct. How many am I losing there? Because Skeletor is super You're going to lose a finger. I'm sorry. What if that was Ben's

replacing the card system was just I cut off your fiend. He's dropped the commissioner persona and now it becomes the butcher. Ben the But. He's dropped the commissioner persona and now becomes the butcher. He's the Lord High Executioner. The thing I was going to say.

All right. We're fired up. Come on, Griffin. We're in the pocket. This was the first guest list full episode we've had in a long time. We need to do more of these. I forget that it's always weird. We can

not behave ourselves. We gotta let the dog off the leash and do some laps around the dog park sometimes. The dog's off the leash in that one. Bark bark. You'll see. Okay. Remind me what the sixth tangent I was on was. Some Cox performance he liked. I'm trying to think of what it would have been. Oh, the Langella Skeletor thing was that

for so long the narrative was like, oh, he only did that movie because his son liked T-Man. And then you watch this interview and he's like, Skeletor thing was that for so long the narrative was like, oh, he only did that movie because his son liked He-Man. And then you watch this interview and he's like, Skeletor was the vehicle for everything I'd always want to do as an actor. Right, right, right, right. And Skeletor in the cartoon is like, ah, He-Man! The whole character is just that he's the bad guy. And he's whiny.

And you know that because he's like a skeleton. He's like whiny and ineffectual. And Langella played him like Henry V. And he's like in like the worst makeup and like 50 pounds of metal, like chainmail costuming. And he's like, I miss Skeletor. I rue the day that I didn't get to reprise the role. Skeletor. I've told my Langella story on this, right?

While we're already just sidebarring into sidebars lan langela like you said lingela like i say lingela do you think it's langela i don't know i would say franklin gala i always heard it but the way i heard it was like that anthony mingala and franklin john merged into one creature no i don't go on um my it was like my my like first day on draft day was like his last day and there's like a big war room scene where like uh costner does the the crazy trade and at the beginning of the scene uh len galler storms in and is like uh sonny why explain yourself and then like you know two lines later i enter and i'm like he's really good and I enter I'm like a call on line four

and they're like Rick get the phone so it's like we're both everyone's got to hit their marks right right complicated shot right they're already like 15 primary like principal actors in this scene and we're the two guys who enter into it right so there's like a PA standing outside the door with a walkie talkie going

like Frank go or I'm sorry i enter first and then he enters right it's like griffin go and then he stands there for like another five seconds they go frank go and they send him in and they kept on fucking it up because it was complicated there were a lot of actors in it so there were three takes in a row where they went uh griffin go and then i entered in and then like five seconds later they'd call cut okay

and I didn't have dialogue I just it was just wrong but it happened three times in a row where the camera wasn't right or someone forgot their line or whatever it was they'd go Griffin go

and then five seconds later they'd call cut and I'd walk back out after the third time Langella's just sitting there he hasn't introduced himself he hasn't said hi he's wearing sunglasses

right his character choice for that movie is he wears sunglasses the entire time sure and when he rapped he took the sunglasses off dramatically he's he's so good because in that movie because he he feels like to me like awful sports owners who are sort of pleased with themselves if that makes sense yeah he's very good in it yeah but after the third take he goes son and i went uh yeah and he went do me a favor and i said okay and he said try not to fuck it up this time i've heard that story wasn't really your fault it wasn't but who am i to argue a skeletor i know

okay so now we're going back up through the inception so you really like cox in uh adaptation was there something oh though I couldn't find, I mean, was it like the autopsy of Jane Doe? It's really good, man. Secession, he's really good. And I don't know, it might have been an old movie I was watching. I'm just always happy to see Brian Cox,

okay, up through the Inception level. So now we're on to who should host inside the actor studio. Oh, yeah, right. My fear is that it's going to become Iconoclast, which was a show I really liked where it was like different notable figures interviewing each other. It was like Chappelle and Maya Angelou or like Mike Myers and Deepak Chopra or like Tarantino and Fiona Apple.

It was a really good show. They did a Newman Redford episode, but I just think it's going to be like that. That sounds jerk off. It should be Grodin. Grodin. Grodin would be good. It could be Clifford. i would i mean i would like that in character you'd be good instead of doing jiminy glick you're just nodding yeah

jiminy glick would not be a bad choice that might uh undercut the extreme seriousness at all times of that fucking show sure okay so back up through the levels bradley cooper graduated from the actor studio at pace university was always in the audience asking questions, and just seemed like one of those sort of like drama nerd kids. Not in a bad way, but it's like, this someone just loves acting and wants to act, right? But then he kind of got slipped into this sort of comedic friend zone. Which he said that like, that was the first time he had read a script and was like, this is my exact sense of humor. I didn't know anyone else found the same things funny. Oh, wet hot. Right.

Yeah. So then he becomes a guy who's like kind of one of those actors that clearly the New York alt comedians like. Well, he gets that at the same time he gets alias though. So he's got both of those, but an alias, right. Michael Vartan is the romantic lead and he's kind of the funny friend.

Not like, you know, he's, he's handsome. The show knows he, but he's also the pretty rather than handsome comic relief cause uh

yeah you got Grunberg right exactly but you know I feel like that's where Hollywood pegged him this guy's kind of pretty and preppy not like dark and handsome

and he asked himself to be written off that show he was in it for a while but eventually he did eventually ask to be let go cause he felt like

he wasn't going to do much I'm trying to remember what's he I mean he yeah he was yeah i mean he leaves in two no no really uh fuck i did watch alias i can't believe it's just like gone from my brain bradley cooper imdb here we go he was on something called the street with the dollar sign no idea what that is sounds good yeah uh right he was on jack and bobby remember that show right geez yeah yeah so i guess he yeah it's the first yeah yeah he's kind of out after the first you're right right yeah he comes back like for guest drop-ins but yeah but then he did do jack

and bobby yes so the other thing right he's like the stella shorts of that era like he'd show up in those things he was clearly in that scene there are those actors who live in New York like Sam Rockwell and Josh Charles where it's clear like oh they like comedy and they'll appear in these other people's like Comedy Central shows for an episode or whatever it is right and then when he's in Wedding Crashers I feel like that's through that avenue

well I guess it's through both avenues kind of right because then he sort of gets weirdly pigeonholed into the like oh he's like the Mark Feuerstein. Like, is he the guy who's going to play like the asshole or the best friend?

Sort of turtleneck wearing preppy guy. Right, because then it's a failure to launch. He's like McConaughey's best friend. Yes,

man, he's Jim Carrey's best friend. He was in Kitchen Confidential, which is one of the like, Anthony Bourdain, which is really strange.

I know, which is one of the most weirdly stacked TV casts of all time John Cho uh Langella's on that right uh yep

um Nicholas Brendan Xander from Buffy right John Francis Daly from Freaks and Geeks um Jamie King

Bonnie Somerville who was credited in A Star Is Born but I could not find her so I think she got cut out she probably was cut out yeah um he does

like this A Star Is Born has two alias. Yes. Cast members. I feel like he, you know, he stays friends with all his buddies, right? Yeah, because he really was, like, he didn't feel like a guy

who was, like, crafting a movie star persona in the way that even some people... No, he just sort of did a lot of everything, right. Right, because, like, someone like Mark Wahlberg, like, even though it took a while for him to become, like, very bankable or very good, you could tell from the beginning, like, okay, he's building a thing here. There's clearly a Mark Wahlberg persona, a brand that he's trying to perfect.

Right, right, right. You know, he's on that sort of conveyor belt. And Bradley Cooper could have just been like, he's kind of a real actor. He did the Broadway play with Julia Roberts, Three Days of Rain. Three Days of Rain, where he was sort of the third lead because Rudd is the... Another guy who was in that community of serious New York actors who get along with comedians. Right. And then he became more of a straight comedy star. But yeah, the thing about Cooper is he doesn't do an action movie until the A-team.

Whereas Wahlberg was always like, I'm jacked. I'm going to be in action movies. I'll do other shit too, but get me in action. No, it's like this guy's a serious actor and he's mostly getting caught in like decent, probably paycheck, like best friend or romantic rival roles. And in Wedding Crashers, he's so obnoxious. Obviously, that's the character. Right.

I feel like that actually hurt him for a little bit. Even though the movie was huge. My buddy Alex Pearl and I would always talk about it. You really hate him in that fucking movie. We said the Bradley Cooper problem, which is, can you my friend alex would always say i feel like if you get that good at playing that kind of part it starts to rub off on you and you become an asshole and for the couple of movies after that it felt like he had too much asshole he's just not that into you he's kind of an asshole right and then in the hangover which is obviously his big breakout he's an asshole but

he's he's good in the hang. So the couple things that happen are, one, he weirdly hosts SNL for he's just not that into you. And at the time it was like, this is the least famous person to ever host SNL. It's hard to get in there when you're that little. But I guess the comedy stuff, you know, he's into.

That's what it was. But I remember being very surprised that he was hosting and his joke was like, hey, I'm in this big romantic comedy with 15 big movie stars and I'm the guy they got to host. Right. That is weird.

Right. But when the hangover was announced and it was like, Oh, Todd Phillips is making like an R rated movie again. Cause Todd Phillips had kind of fallen off a little bit like old school and road trip were really well liked. And then he has the Starsky and Hutch and school for scoundrels. But he also had the hangover in the camp. It's

coming that year. This is my point though. Right. Is that The Hangover, the big thing was, it was a really hot script. Todd Phillips had been stuck with Weinstein for a while and now was free. That contract was going over to Warner Brothers and they were like, budget $60 million. Here are the stars they want. They wanted

Jake Gyllenhaal. Right. They wanted Thomas Hayden Church. They wanted Thomas Haydenden church played the galifianakis part jake gyllenhaal to play bradley cooper and i forget who the third one i get it because hayden church was in sideways playing the sort of fuck up like you know i get it they had their weird list of people they probably a bad movie right and and todd phillips was like i i went through all this sort of micromanaged shit i'm done with it i dealt with stars who got too big and you had to match the star personas i want to make new movie stars oh the other this was the other big thing that happened with the hangover was he was supposed to make a movie called witch school with jack black sure that was like jack black goes to

hogwarts or whatever sounds great and jack black had a lot of notes and the movie got shut down like very shortly like a month or two before it was going to film and he was like I've gotten so tired of having to go through the system making star vehicles because they're so temperamental I want to find the guys who should be stars

make stars and deal with that so he makes one of the smartest business decisions in the world a George Lucas-esque deal where he goes I will waive my quote.

What's the number where if I can deliver this movie, you let me do whatever I want? Right. And they were like 30. And he was like, if I make it for 30, I can cast whoever I want.

Right. They were like, yeah. And he was like, Bradley Cooper, solid. He's been in enough big movies. Sure. Plays the asshole, but he's never been the leading man.

Right. And he says, I think you should be a movie star. Sure. I'm going to make you a movie star. Gives him the big hair, which is kind of crucial to the Bradley Cooper magic.

His line, which he said is, the first thing I want is for you to grow your hair out. He said, why? And he said, I think movie stars have long hair and I think long hair gives you some pain. It's very true. Which is a really smart thing he said. Because he had always been very

close cropped before that. He doesn't look as good. And he looked a little generic. You know, there was something like, oh, that's like a handsome enough guy. And then, of course, Ed Helms is on The Office at this point. Galifianakis had started getting more supporting roles, was like a comedian's comedian. And the movie is fucking humongous.

Yeah. Todd Phillips makes $100 million because he waived his upfront quote. Good for him. And just got points. And suddenly those guys are worth so much money because they want to make two more hangovers. And their deals were so small. I think they each got $300,000 for the first movie.

Sure, but they got the stacked. Right. I think seven for the second movie and 15 for the third. Hey. Hey. Right. Right. But you go like.

Just want to get a look at the hangover. Oh. Oh. I regret it. So what's the bradley cooper thing now the bradley cooper thing now is now he's gotten really big playing an asshole in ribald comedies is he gonna stay on that track he was a serious actor is he gonna become a matinee idol is gonna be an action star he does the a-team which was the weird potpourri of actors who blew up in 2009. The problem with that movie- The team is like, Liam Neeson just did Taken, Charles Tocopoli just did District 9. Who are the three guys who now are pretty affordable

because they just became bankable? Yeah, Rampage Jackson had just done The Midnight Meat Train with Bradley Cooper. Yeah, that movie sucks. The problem with that movie is that it sucks. That's the other thing is Bradley Cooper had a couple movies

where he was the lead that were shelved and didn't come out until after he was big. Midnight Meat Train, Case 39, which is the Renee Zellweger one. He had a bunch of shelved movies

where then they had a spring cleaning sale. Yeah, they're all bad films. He was also in All About Steve with Sandra Bullock, her weird meltdown movie right that weird year where like bradley cooper and sandra bullock are huge but also they have this

right that comes out after their massive summer successes um you got he was in he pops up in valentine's day another uh anthology kind of movie then he does limitless give me that pill i think that's the movie that kind of really totally because that movie does well and it shouldn't have done well and it was supposed to be a Shia LaBeouf

vehicle then it was like Bradley's doing this and then it makes a lot of money literally popped up I also think he's really good in Limitless

he's good I think he's good too I think Limitless is like a fun De Palma movie yeah I agree I got no beef with Limitless

no beef with Neil Berger. And I remember Todd Phillips doing like victory. Yeah. I remember Todd Phillips doing victory lap interviews where he was like, see, I told everyone that Bradley Cooper was a fucking movie star and look at the opening weekend of Limitless. I was so fucking right.

Right. Like he was this movie star that no one was giving the chance. Um, totally. Then, you know, place beyond the pines he's great in that he is the movie's a mess silver linings playbook obviously colossal movie right you know because he's in this okay he's doing smaller things what's he gonna be what type of movie star is he gonna be he makes that movie the words which was like his passion project that his friend

directed no one goes to see it. And then Silver Lion's like, okay, now he's gotten an Oscar nomination. The film is critically respected. It made a ton of fucking money. And he and Lawrence may be there pairing now. So they immediately go off and make Serena. Yeah, in between these also the hangovers keep coming out and they always do well.

Which keeps him afloat because he's got a franchise. Right. But it's this weird kind of like up and down thing.loat because he's got a franchise but it's this weird kind of like up and down thing he's not having like real lows but it's like

what is the Bradley Cooper movie star thing like people are trying to figure it out right doubles down with David O. Russell

yep pops up in American Hustle gets another nomination is he good in that I think he is he's big I think he's. He's big. I think he's good. That movie drives me crazy.

I know it does. He's very big. Yeah, that's a movie I'm terrified to ever watch again. Yeah, because it's shitty. Guardians of the Galaxy. But I still think it's his best performance. I don't think it's his best. I think he's underrated in those movies.

So fucking good. Some people really hate his performance in that. I think those people are dumb. Rocket Raccoon's my favorite. Weird to call people dumb. Yeah. Dumb people. People with dumb brains.

I think the thing people underrate about Rocket, his voice, is that he's doing a whole performance. His voice doesn't sound like that. Thank you. Yeah. Yes. Also, he's always on set, and they shrink him down to do the mocap. They have a shrink ray. That's a lot to put a body through.

They put the fur on one stranded time it's so crazy he has to prepare it takes 36 hours for each one day of shooting so they have to space out his days no they have to shoot it on neptune because where the days are longer that's what they gotta do right crazy i'm itching for this card card you got a guillotine in your hand remember you're the executioner ben is holding a tiny guillotine in your hand. Remember, you're the executioner. Ben is holding a tiny guillotine. Yeah, Serena, it's a piece of shit. My favorite thing about Serena

that I think I've said in this podcast before is that when Passengers came out, Jennifer Lawrence was like, I had to shoot my first love scene with Chris Pratt. And one journalist was like, you had sex a bunch in Serena. No, I didn't. And she was like, doesn't exist.

She just never acknowledged that movie. Right. I didn't. And she was like, doesn't exist. Like she just never acknowledged that movie. Right. Then in 2014, American Sniper, his best performance in my opinion. You think that's his best?

Definitely. I think he's excellent. I agree. But he gets his third consecutive Oscar nomination in three years. Yep. Yep.

And I remember saying to you at the time, Jesus Christ, when Bradley Cooper wins an Oscar, he's going to win so fucking hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because he's Cooper wins an Oscar, he's going to win so fucking hard. Yeah.

Yeah. Because he's now become this guy where he's bankable, he's a leading man, and he's a real kind of respected, serious actor. Right. And then he did a weird 2015. Which was some sort of leftover stuff. Well, Aloha is leftover, for sure. Burnt. Burnt. Which was clearly

him wanting to get back into that kitchen confidential mode. Seriously. There are things about him where, like, he speaks fluent French. He loves cooking. And sometimes I think he takes, he would take a movie because he'd be like, I just want to play a chef again. Yeah. You know? But he kind of pushed Burnt.

Burnt. Burnt was like a hot script that David Fincher almost made with Keanu Reeves. Then somehow it became a John Wells movie that barely got released. It's John Wells? Yeah. I watched it on a plane, and it barely rose to the level of satisfying

on a plane. Sounds like a John Wells movie. I really wanted it to be... I saw that movie as being like, oh, this will be a good plane movie. Yeah. And burnt. And a low as a mess for him, but American Sniper, this will be a good plane movie. And burnt. And Aloha's a mess for him, but American Sniper, the thing is that that was his

project. He got that book. He attached Steven Spielberg. Steven Spielberg was going to make it. Spielberg dropped out, and he was like, I'm not going to go lower. I'm going to get a real fucking veteran historical Hollywood auteur to make this movie. Gets Eastwood, and then it's the fucking

biggest movie. It's this insane box office performance we don't talk about enough. It's a bit of a weird culture war movie kind of like Passion of the Christ where like people start assigning it all this sort of big deal like oh this is like conservatives, the real America loves this movie or whatever. And it's an R rated drama

that opens to a hundred million dollars. It's long too. Long movie. Does, I mean it becomes I think then the highest grossing film in the history of Warner Brothers until it's supplanted by something else. That's funny. I mean I would assume that one of those DC movies supplanted it, right? Right.

I think so. I think it was at the time it's released the biggest film Warner Brothers had released. It's now number five. Okay. I don't think it was because you got Deathly Hallows. Oh, right. But then it's been, I know,

and you got Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises. But it was high up there. That's what it was. It was their biggest non-Potter, non-Batman. Right.

Those are their two big franchises and then it was American Sniper. But the other thing in 2015 was he's in every episode of Wet Heart American Summer

first day of camp. Which he's really good in. Yeah. I love that he's in that. And they pointedly only had him for like a day and a half because he was also doing

Elephant Man on Broadway. It genuinely tanked the second iteration of that that he wasn't in it, in my opinion. Like having Adam Scott do it, like, I love Adam Scott, but you were just sort of like,

eh, you know, whatever. And the other thing is, I think they wrote that character assuming they could only get him for a day so he doesn't really have any consequence in the plot, which would have been fine if it was Bradley because I think he's really good in it and I think his chemistry with Michael Ian Black

is very underrated. When people interview Bradley Cooper about love scenes and ask him who his best on-screen kiss was, he always says Michael Ian Black, which I love. I think that's really sweet of him. It's a hot scene. It's so good. I love how uncomfortable that scene used to make people in college when I showed them that movie.

Yes. Like, I used to show people that, like, all my buddy, because I was like, can't meet any nerd. And I'd be like, let's watch this weird movie. Because in America, that movie, I mean, in Britain, that movie was anonymous. Like, no one had ever heard, shh. I'm sorry, Ben, can you pull that cleaver out for a second? No, Griffin.

Yes. I mean, that was the moment where I was like, oh, this movie is a masterpiece, is they do the scene where you clearly think you're about to see 16 sets of boobs, and instead they show you the most torrid, tender, romantic gay sex scene. I know, I love that scene. And the joke is that it's a really,

really fucking good sex scene that would always, I love that scene. And the joke is that it's a really, really fucking good sex scene that would always make people's brains explode. But they're all good. Whatever. They're bad. I don't know.

People are bad, movies are good. People are definitely bad. Yeah. He's in War Dogs. Right, because he's now producing partners

to Todd Phillips. They got a shingle at Warner Brothers. They're helping each other's movies. It's not kind of, it is a dumb movie. Okay.

But Todd Phillips producer on Star is Born. Yeah. Which was a film that Clint Eastwood wanted to make for a while. Yes. I think someone else wanted to make it before him. Let me try and find... I mean, Warner Brothers had gotten Eric Roth to write a new version. They said, well, it's been 40 years.

It's time to do a fourth Star is Born. So, Star is Born, well, it's been 40 years. It's time to do a fourth Star is Born. So, Star is Born, 37, I think, 54. And then 77? 76.

76. Yeah, 37, 54, 76. So, there's like a 90s Star is Born

that didn't happen. Yes. You know what I mean? Because it's every two decades there's a new Star is Born. Which I'm not saying it's the same movie because it's obviously

a very different story, but the bodyguard feels like what happened instead of a 90 stars born right um yes yeah yeah culturally you know what i'm saying totally totally big soundtrack uh and it's about the perils of fame and it's a tragic love story and all that sort of stuff so this script floating around forever yeah uh be Beyonce was going to be in it. Directed by Clint Eastwood. Beyonce and DiCaprio was the original announcement. And it was like, why are they doing this? That sounds so weird.

Why are they making this movie again? Does anyone need it again? It was also in that moment when Beyonce was trying to be more of like a sort of regular movie star. Right. You know, when she was doing projects like Dreamgirls and... What was the one? Obsessed?

Obsession. Yeah? Obsessed. Whatever it's called. Yeah. Yeah. And Cadillac Records. Like, you know, where she's doing these, like, roles. Yes.

And now Beyonce is just like, Beyonce. And Nala. That's true. She is in that. A movie I am on the record will say again,

I think it's going to be the highest grossing film of all time. You're wrong. Well, let's see. I know. It's a good bet. Yeah, it's a good bet. It's fun to have a bet.

It's fun to have a bet. God, he's so mad at me, Ben. Look at him. Seething with rage. The fuck? Well, you got to stop mentioning that you grew up in England.

Ben! No, I grew up in England. Yellow card, Ben. I can't give you your cards. I stole your cards. You picked up, Ben. I stole your cards. You picked up the knives. I stole your cards. All right, fine.

Beyonce dropped out. Esperanza Spalding, who is really big for a second there. She won Best New Artist at the Grammys. Eastwood was like, we'll cast her. I think Eastwood was like, who's the young musician I can cast? And I think they thought about- And Cooper, that's when Cooper joins. Okay, but the other guys they go through when

DiCaprio drops out are like every other A-list guy. It's like Tom Cruise almost did it. Will Smith almost did it. But like those names, they were certainly offered the role. Right. Clearly this became a priority for them. Then Cooper signs on. Beyonce had

dropped out because of her pregnancy. But now enough time had passed that they thought maybe she was going to come back and do it. There was a point where it looked like it was going to be Eastwood, Cooper, and Beyonce. But the movie doesn't work if it's Beyonce. The movie fundamentally doesn't work if it's Beyonce because she's already too colossal.

You think it doesn't work if it is Beyonce? I agree. That's what I'm saying. No, I disagree with you. A Star is Born always stars an immensely famous person playing an ingenue. It's weird. I agree with you. Right. I think the interesting thing this version has going for it,

when they announced Lady Gaga, I was like, that feels like a step down. But the surprising brilliance of that cast of choices, well, you've never seen Lady Gaga as a normal person. But that's what these, it's always this weird comeback narrative for the superstar. Yeah. Like, and that's. Beyonce doesn't need a comeback. Oh, no.

Beyonce would have been terrible. I mean, or maybe she would have been. It wouldn't have worked. No, I know. I think she's a good actor. She is. I think she's really good in Cadillac Records. She's so good.

We've talked about it. Yeah. I think, well, maybe she would have been good. I think there's too much baggage with her in terms. I know, she's so good. We've talked about it. Yeah. I think, well, maybe she would have been good. I think there's too much baggage with her in terms of her already being such a fucking superstar.

She's so remote. Maybe she would have been awesome. God knows. I don't know. I don't know. Who knows? Clint Eastwood directing it, I don't know about that.

Right. That's the real thing. Right. He makes Jersey Boys instead. He was itching to make a musical and Cooper just goes like, wait, I'm going to direct this. And he, for a while,

had been like, I want to direct, I want to direct. He kept on saying that, you know, I might take a year off from acting, I'm going to direct this. And he, for a while, had been like, I want to direct, I want to direct. He kept on saying that, you know, I might take a year off from acting, I might do this. After American Sniper,

he clearly has the cashier to do whatever the fuck he wants at Warner Brothers. Yep. Because Warner Brothers still has this reputation of like, we got our people who we let make fucking movies.

Clint, Nolan. Right. I think Todd Phillips is in that category. Their relationship. There's another obvious one isn't there and there's some other like yes big deal warner brothers director right they like to lock people in and be like you belong here uh yeah um warner brothers yeah i mean i guess zach snyder i don't know for a a while. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, kind of, right?

Right. Like, they were kind of like, whatever you want, Zack. Yeah. Ding dong. Oh, boy. Ding dong. Haven't even gotten to the movie yet. Sorry.

I sent it for the subscription box service where they, it's embarrassing embarrassing they blackmail me with like the worst memories my worst artifacts from my life okay I mean I said I signed up for it I didn't sign up for it someone is blackmailing me that's what's going on here

so every month I get a new box of carefully curated curios from my past things I'm trying to repress here's my beauty shop essay. Here's a photo of when I had long hair in eighth grade. This is my Abercrombie and Fitch phase. It's just a box of things I don't want to remember.

Yeah, don't buy clothes pre-ripped. Yeah, I know. I was so into the pre-ripped jeans. Okay, well, I have great news for you. What? We can take all that stuff that you obviously want remembered, and we can digitize it. We can put it on a thumb drive,

a digital download, a DVD, whatever you want. No, it sounds like that's the opposite of what I have right now. No, that's what we're going to do.

You see, because Legacy Box, what they do is they get all your home movies, your photos, anything you like, keepsakes that you want to kind of like store

forever. I don't want this stuff though. Someone stole this from me and is sending it to me blackmailed. They're trying to kill my career. Like literally like, because you know,

like a VHS tape, like that could degrade. Like, you know, these precious home movies, things like that. Right. Like you're doing the weird. Some of the performances

I pointedly hidden and buried. Right. Like the stand up with the action figures you used to do when you were a kid. That was pretty good. Okay. Well, perfect. Even all the more reason.

Maybe we don't want to put that on the thumb drive then. No, that's it. Summer camp thumb drive. Okay, I get it. Okay, so with Legacy Box, you just, you throw that all, they send you a big box.

This is what big box you got right here. Yeah. You throw it all in. You send it to them and they, you know, they can take care of it for you essentially.

They can put it on a thumb drive. Yeah. Or a digital download. Not like this home video recording of when i used to do the bugs bunny bathtub routine yeah that one might need its own thumb drive yeah a red thumb drive so david what you're saying is this legacy box is almost like a criterion collection box set of your life yeah sure i mean or or photo album or uh any any kind of like curated restored media you know because like i've got home video like tapes yeah like of me doing beautiful wonderful things like pointing at my nose when everyone asks where my nose is when i'm two years old

things like that you know really genius shit it's not that impressive. Anyone can do that. Ben, where's your nose? It's right here. Oh, he did it. It did take him like 15 seconds. And I can't, I don't have a VCR. I can't watch that. Yeah. Like, and so if I send it to Legacy Box, they can like help me re-experience my glory days

or your glory days. I don't want to re-experience my glory days. My life started at 24. So if you send them your old movies your pictures they'll do the rest they'll professionally digitize your moments onto a thumb drive digital download dvd uh they have easy to follow instructions they give you these safety barcodes they won't lose your stuff they keep track of it like at every moment it goes through their facility uh you get all these personalized email updates they've got 450,000 families have trusted them

with this extremely uh delicate work it's all done right by hand right here in america and it sounds like they're upstanding people who won't try to blackmail you well yeah someone is you're saying trying to blackmail you but it's not legacy box it's not legacy box and i wish i had signed up for legacy box instead uh well so there's never been a better time to digitally preserve your memory so you can just visit legacybox.com today to get started and for a limited time they're offering buying check listeners an exclusive discount you go to legacybox.com slash check you get 40 off your first order check to make sure you're going to legacy box and then that's the end of the story oh wait a second no i think it's a little different it's more that you go to LegacyBox.com slash check

you can get 40% off or save up to $200 on the largest Legacy Box kit. So if you go to LegacyBox.com slash check and save 40% today you can get started preserving your past. As I cleanly state, I will not give in to blackmail. Try to intimidate me as much as you can.

I also don't have any money to give. Alright, LegacyBox.com slash check. So Bradley Cooper makes this movie and it feels like Try to intimidate me as much as you can. I also don't have any money to give. All right. So Bradley Cooper makes this movie, and it feels like, oh, Bradley Cooper has kind of gone off the grid for a little bit. Yeah, he didn't make anything, really. No, he was working on this, and he spent a long time, like now in all the interviews he's talking about, I spent a year working on the voice before we even started filming.

I was doing three hours a day lowering the octave of my voice. Going, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Just watching fucking the Big Lebowski's Sam Elliott scene over and over again. Yeah. Sometimes there's a man. You know, and then meanwhile, Lady Gaga, obviously, you know,

a phenomenon out of the gate in terms of her discography like her first three albums well her first two albums really right um but she had also you know her record sales went down i mean like i know everyone's record sales went down because like people don't buy records anymore did go down yeah and touring sales went down you know ben and i were talking about before you showed up like you know she was she was in this thing where everyone was like, how is she going to top herself next? Right. Like, with all this crazy shit she does.

Right. Which is an impossible game to play because you can't do that forever. Well, it was like sort of trying to do a Madonna thing, but the other thing is Lady Gaga was always sort of like a performance art piece. Yes. Like, you know, because it was so much about the sort of, I don't know, the artificiality of it where it was hard to engage with who the real person was underneath. And I've heard a bunch of stories about her. I mean, her start was sort of like this,

and she was like a bridge and tunnel kid who would come in and do shows when she was 16 at cabarets and things like that. And everyone's like, man, she's an amazing singer. She went to NYU and dropped out. But the legend and who knows if this is true is that she was like, I know the kind of singer

I want to be. The kind of old style ballad crooner I want to be. And I think that music isn't popular anymore so I'm going to do what it takes to get in the door. And she sort of latched on to EDM. I mean the types of songs that would become popular. The persona that at least would make people interested. The game of one-upsmanship of what she's going to wear to the red carpet. I mean, the types of songs that would become popular. The persona that at least would make people interested.

The Game of One upsmanship of what she's going to wear to the red carpet. I mean, all the stuff she needed to do to make a career that was very strategic. But the goal was to sort of end up doing the stuff like her Tony Bennett album, you know? The Tony Bennett album's a weird one.

Right, but then that's the other thing is once the later albums start to come out, she's like, okay, now I'm sort of peeling back. I think that's just her being like, I'm a great singer. That was sort of, I think that's what she always wanted to do. She's a great singer. Right. And she starts peeling back the persona and her popularity starts to

fall a little bit, you know? Yeah. So it's like, was Lady Gaga time and a place? She still has her like super intense fan base. Monsters. That's like, you know, she can sell out a stadium, no problem or whatever. You know what I mean? Like she still got that.

It's so hard to stay in this. Like who, apart from Beyonce, there's so few pop stars. I guess like Taylor Swift. Yeah. Has been in this like guys for like a sustained decade at this point. But even she struggled with the last album. Like, yeah, it's so hard to reinvent every fucking time, you know? I agree. guys for a sustained decade at this point. But even she struggled with the last album. It's so hard to reinvent every fucking time.

I agree. And if you do this, you have this problem. Yes. I'm constantly trying to reinvent. It never works. Especially because my reinventions always seem exactly the same as what I was before. I've reinvented myself six times since this podcast started. That's true.

I used to wear white shirts. Now I wear gray shirts. He's wearing a handsome gray heather shirt. Thank you. And, you know, she did the Super Bowl in 2017, I want to say, last year. And, you know, was good. I feel like people were starting to act like they were kind of over it, though. Yeah, no, definitely.

There was the year she did uh uh my favorite things on the oscars uh-huh and people were like oh you know where she can really sing but her song stopped being zeitgeist because she had her poker face and bad romance and all the songs that were really just like telephone unavoidable yes 100 she had an amazing run for like two three years where every single was a big deal right she comes out with born this way yeah that single was a big deal but that the rest of the album doesn't album kind of doesn't go anywhere that's when people are really like your music is not as crazy as your performances and i think people start to resent that uh and then she does um art pop which is okay and has two bangers and doesn't it doesn't sell that well and then she does uh cheek to cheek which is okay and has two bangers and doesn't sell that well and then she does Cheek to Cheek

which is her just being like listen to me sing and Tony Bennett's like huh what a what a classy dame I don't know Tony Bennett is he like 4,000 years old? Yes approximately and then she does this album Jolene which I think is related to the music in this movie this much more stripped down sort of country

singer songwriter stuff and I think, yeah, like, that's, like, that vibe is influencing a lot of the music

she wrote for this movie. She'd been trying to act for a while. She made it very clear that she was like a theater kid, that she wanted to be acting. I feel like she was always

getting floated around for stuff. She does the season of American Horror Story. She hosts SNL. Horrible season. Not really her fault. It's just a bad. And she wins the Golden Globe, which felt she hosts SNL horrible season not really her fault it's just a bad and she wins the Golden Globe which felt very much like a Golden Globe star

fuckery paid off kind of thing so it's like okay I guess we can't take her seriously as an actress and then Bradley Cooper hires her right at the same time which almost feels perverse okay like he's trying to prove a point but I think that is what works really well about her casting I mean as you said like you know the Judy Garland thing was like that movie was a comeback vehicle Okay. Like, he's trying to prove a point, but I think that is what works really well about her casting. I mean, as you said, like, you know, the Judy Garland thing was like, that movie was a comeback vehicle for her. Yeah, for sure. 100%. Streisand was kind of on top of the world already at that point. Yeah, that movie, which she did not direct, is more Streisand being like, I can control this project end to end.

Right. Like, you know, her being like, I'm a mogul. Like, I'm not just, you know. That's when she's, right, becomes, you know, sort of overbearing over all of her films. Have you seen The Other Stars Are Born? I have only seen the original. The 30, the Gainer, Frederick March. The first three are all on Filmstruck right now.

That's right. Unpaid plug. But I've only seen the the gainer one i know the garland one's really the one to see right on rules yeah i mean it's very long it's like a very it's a very classic 50s big musical she's fantastic in it it's very of its time and i love james james mason's good although like you know james mason's creepy like that's and so he's kind of well deployed but also you do struggle a little bit sometimes the relationship is very paternalistic yeah um but i mean he's a good actor he's such a

yeah which when this trailer came out and i would hear people who didn't know that it was a remake didn't know the original story say like oh they're telling you the whole movie in the trailer and i'm like they're not because stars like you know how stars born ends that's clearly just the first chunk of it. It always ends with someone hanging themselves with a belt? It always ends with death. In the first two, the guy walks into the sea.

Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. Well, shit. It always ends with the guy being told, like, you're no fucking good. The axiom they use is for one star to rise, another must fall. And the movie ends with this sort of tragic.

I mean, because there is the other sort of weird unofficial Star Wars board remake. Which won Best Picture five years ago and it's called The Artist. The Artist is a Star Wars board with a happy ending. Right. It also sucks. It's fine. It's an ultimate gentleman sex yeah sure you're just like oh that's nice that you made that right but it's also like it's a star is born but even less

interesting because right it's really the very basic narrative like you know yeah he's up she's down then she's up he's down like it's right like there's there's like you know because it's a silent movie like it's so pastiche like right but it is very identical as stars born in the structure other than that he gets his sort of revival moment yeah i mean which is horseshit yeah i mean whatever it's fine the ending of that movie is cute but it is sort of like he figured it out like we play you Oui, pleasure. Oui, pleasure. That movie. Yeah, you're kind of right. We gave that all the Oscars.

And they went back and took Oscars away from other movies. Because I remember in the lead up to that, people being like, look, I mean, it's got a good chance for an Oscar run, but it's not going to win a single Critics Award because it's such a populist movie. And then it won like every Critics Award. Right. Like every Critics Group gave a best picture um and they gave it wheat pleasure the the nutty thing is that he won best director like because you know there's been so many director splits these years with the oscars you know and that's one of the non-splits yeah yes it's very

odd because it's kind of the thing. If you think this is the best picture, you kind of have to give him the best director trophy. Because it's his movie. Yeah. You know. Yes. And same thing with Dujardin, where they were like... Right.

Yeah. He won an Oscar. He won best actor in a leading role. A French comedic actor I like a lot. Did he win best actor? Jean Dujardin? Yesin yes he did john dujardin one best actor yes nuts yes and and he didn't do he didn't get the one role he clearly should have gotten on the victory lap post oscar was that lumiere and beauty and the beast the fact that we didn't cast him as lumiere and i will never stop complaining shows you how quickly he vanished from american he looks like a fucking candle he's a handsome candle man

it does he looks like lumiere and ewan mcgregor's who an actor i like a lot does a admittedly terrible french accent when he was impressed with me he's like yeah i really boff the thing is right he was like i don't know how to do a french accent and they were just like just do it anyway and he was like okay here it is oh and they were like great like and what you hear in the final film is his third try they made him re-dub the entire movie twice hey how about you just cast jean can we talk about a star is born he would invite us to be his guest with pleasure oh god why does my

Jean Dujardin sound like a roundy Newman oh boy with pleasure so here's the thing I'm avoiding what

I didn't love this movie right and you're angry at me and you said it made you lose sleep last night. It did. We bought tickets together. I had a panic attack. I saw it separately.

You guys saw it at the Alamo Draft House. I saw it at the weird Cinema 123 on like 59th and Lexington. I think I have been to that theater but not in a very long time. What's that theater like? They renovated it so it's one of those recliner seat theaters now

and I love it. Sounds good. But it's one of the weird movie theaters. Is it a city cinema? It's not. It's like some other fucking chain that I can't even remember the name of. Look it up. It's not even like a Carmike or something like that. It's something weird. Maybe city cinema's

rebranded or something. No, it's not. It is pointedly, I believe. It might have been a city cinema's, though. I'm just having fun. You think i don't know from city cinemas so the sea the big c and then the little c and walk in the walk talking to talk about city cinema since birth baby he is downtown griffin who's born in a city cinema i was born in a city cinema um they do half price tickets okay after nine o'clock it's like at post nine is nine dollars well it's also right because every single person lives on the upper east side is asleep so they're like hey fuck it or me the one insomniac on the upper east side right yeah so i go see a 950

screen i'm like this is gonna be depressing it's sure it's not gonna be atmosphere wrong near sold out because i think everywhere was like the audience yeah the crowd is like bustling awesome people were so fucking into it and i sat there and i'm just gonna say this i didn't love it i don't dislike it i wasn't frustrated with it okay but i had that thing okay we're like have you ever been on a date with someone you're like i should like this person i'm just kind of not feeling it yeah this is someone i'm attracted to and we're getting along well and for whatever reason i'm not super compelled to see them again yeah i get it i just don't get it right and i just sat there and i went like i have minor gripes i have things i would say are

good about it i'm sitting there and i just of feel like this is the least satisfying take though. Cause you're kind of just like, eh, that's why I've been dreading this episode since last night for what? 12 hours. Because I walked out of it and I was like, wow, that's crazy.

That's nuts. I don't get that at all. That's crazy. I don't get it. But you liked it with some real high points. Yeah. I thought it was great yeah

I got a little drunk at the screening you did I was like playing along with Bradley's Coop you saw it at the draft house Bradley's Cooper Bradley's Cooper

yeah and you took advantage of the bottomless whiskey promotion they don't have I just kept writing more whiskey on the cards

right crushing pills with your boot well as you do. I liked it a lot. Yeah. I really, I mean, you know,

I like movies. Love them. And Thank you. Yeah. Pew. And I just kind of got a sense from seeing this movie

and then I've read some reviews that sort of confirmed this take but it definitely was like it's like the kind of it reminded me of watching old movies with my parents

like tonally it felt that way and I never do that it's a romance which Hollywood just doesn't make a lot of those yeah like it's really

it's not even especially a romantic drama yeah it's a romantic drama if those exist they're fucking Nicholas Sparks movies and you look at Will Fedders one of the credited screenwriters on this and that's mostly what he's written and i

think that was the script and then roth and roth like works on it and then cooper works on it right was roth first maybe roth first maybe roth wrote the eastwood script it's roth ampersand fetters and cooper i think fetters and cooper work together. All right, all right, yeah. So Fedders is just bringing in that, you know, weepy experience, I guess. Right, he wrote Remember Me, and he wrote a couple Sparks movies. Yeah, the song from Cuckoo. Yes, he wrote Record of May. I did think it was interesting that this movie, even though I haven't seen the 76 version,

is really kind of focused on being a remake of the 76 version more than the earlier two. And you'll notice in the end credits, they go based on a script by Joan Didion and Frank Pearson. No, they credit both scripts. It's two separate cards. But there's three previous scripts. I'm saying they don't credit the middle film.

No, I think, yes. I think there's some, they have to credit the middle film no i think that yes i think there's some they have to credit the 76 story by yes which is the original thing that they're all based on right in the 76 version john peters also gets his weird he has the rights to this movie it's the same with superman john peters has the best contracts in the world where somehow he got the rights to believe that is why that is the case john John Peters, who we all know, was a hairdresser who then... Was Barbra Streisand's hairdresser, who became her producing partner. Slash lover.

Lover slash studio executive. And then became the head of Sony Pictures. And then was notorious for, in the 90s, calling people into his meat office and being like, Superman should fight a giant iron spider. Right, all the Kevin Smith Superman stories. But he still gets money and credits for every Superman movie they make and he

just seemingly wrote these ironclad contracts for anything he was involved in. Because he's credited. He doesn't have a PGA mark so he won't get an Oscar nomination. They fought hard to make sure that he didn't get one. But he's contracted. Because he's also credited on Man of Steel. He's contractually obligated. He's credited on

Justice League. I think he isn't. I think there's some weird thing where it has to be a Superman movie, but I can double check. I believe he's credited on that. He gives these interviews where he's like, Hollywood hates me, but I'm still in it, baby. And it's like this interview was conducted in a parking lot. When he wrote a book that was his dirty tell-all, and then they decided

not to publish it because they were like, this is gross. This is disgusting. You're a monster. Deadline ran a bunch of excerpts and then the publisher got shamed out of publishing it no he's only credited on Man of Steel

interesting and Superman Returns his last movie that I think he actually worked on was Superman Returns I think he had some involvement with that

I think he didn't have any of that maybe not so Ali is the one before that I think that was I think he also owned the rights to that

I think Wild Wild West is maybe the last one he really had that was the last one he also owned the rights to that. I think wild, wild West is maybe the last one. He really, that was the last time he was really, and that's the giant mechanical spider. Right. That's where he finally gets his spider and it flops and everyone's like, go away. Cause that's the thing is like Hollywood spat that guy out long before it

started spitting its monsters out. It also just felt like he was the ultimate symbol of like everything that was like wrong. Like the, like the sort of outsized excess of Hollywood where it's like oh like an illiterate hairdresser who started running movie studios. The weird sort of nepotistic

right yeah yeah. Right. That he kind of fucked his way to the top. He always claims that shampoo was based on him because he was like this legendary fucking Lothario kind of dude. Anyway. Anyway. We'll save that for our John Peters miniseries. But, you know,

the Gaynor one, obviously, she's an actress. It's an acting story. Right. And then the big climactic scenes at the Oscars.

Yes. The Garland one is a musical. She's a singer. They still do the Oscars. Because she's still, it's Hollywood. It's still movies.

It's Hollywood. It's back in the day when singers were stars of movies. It's pictures. Right. The third one, but I think the reason you graduate out of movies

and move it to music is because there's less of a creative partnership that comes in. You know what I mean? It's more interesting when they're songwriting partners. Yeah, I also think it's something about how the studio system changed,

the way that stars were developed and Hollywood changed. But the relationship between the man and woman in the first two is so developed in Hollywood changed. But like, the relationship between the man and woman in the first two is so, you know, he's just like, It's vampiric.

He gets her a job. But it's also vampiric. I mean, there's a bit of a mild Svengali element. And I feel like it's mostly, it's this vampiric ego thing where it's like,

he wants the ego of feeling like he created her and then he can't deal with the hit to his ego of her becoming more successful than him. Right. And it really becomes the undoing of the man, the toxic masculinity and pride and all that sort of stuff. And also, though, in those movies, it's like he's a drunk and he's like, I love booze. You know, like, you know, it's like he is a classic drunk. Right.

Like an evil sort of monster drunk. Right, like Jekyll and Hyde-y kind of exact. Yes, right. This movie makes him much more of a tragic figure, which I think is something that- And so is the Kristofferson one. Which everyone says Kristofferson's the one good part of that movie.

That movie sucks. Have you knew you haven't seen it? I haven't seen it. You so want to love it because it's so 70s and campy and they have sex in a tub with like a thousand candles and it's Barbara. And Christopherson

is good. He has no character. You know, his character is similarly one-dimensional. He's just like a drunk. But he's sort of like earthy and real and you're kind of just like, I want to know about this guy. He's a really interesting screen presence. And I feel like Cooper sees that movie and is like, right, the guy kind of needs to be as interesting.

Or else it doesn't really work. Well, yeah. What? No, I mean, if you love this movie, that's what you agree with. You can just say you don't agree. I don't necessarily agree with it. Why? Because I think it's a little less...

I don't know. because I think it's a little less. I don't know. I mean, it's like I hesitate to even make this argument because it's like I've only seen one of two of the four versions now. Right. Sure. And so it's not like I care that much about a star is born. It's my fucking fantastic four. And I have these ideas of what it needs to be and what it can't be.

Sure. Right. But I find it a little less interesting if the movie is, it's a doomed romance rather than this is sort of the cancer of show business, if that makes sense. And I think with him, the character, the Jackson main character, having this loaded a deck of like, he's really kind of a victim of all these circumstances.

Not that that removes him of any agency of his bad decisions. Sure. But he's sort of a tragic doomed figure. He always is. Right. It's so baked into it. He has to be doomed, right? But I think the doomed elements previously are more about like showbiz types.

Yeah, but it's also like the disease of drink is always like coded in right right but i think that's more tied to the sort of egomania of performers and movie stars and and rock stars whereas this the drinking is tied to sort of his family tragedy and his wounds and all i don't think it's just that though which is why i love one thing i love about this okay if i can counter sure yeah which is like he has that artist's delusion and he keeps coming back to it in the movie of like, you know,

it doesn't work if you're not real. And so like, if I am a fucking useless, washed up, like soggy drunk, like that's only more real. I'm living my truth.

Yes, yes. And like, he loves it. Like even though he knows he's a mess, like he's an asshole, you know like it's like when he sees her being quote-unquote fake he doesn't even care that the song is bad he just he hates the apparatus he hates it like you know and it's like i feel like that's the disease of

rock stars like it's not just substance abuse i mean there's that too yeah but it's that thing of like i can't sell out i can't be you know not real like he's sort of like like ryan adams like i know he's sort of he's got this more 70s but it's like those guys now where they're like you're like can you just fucking settle down you're in your 40s now like i get that you lived a wild life in your 20s and you're touring and stuff but like but this is my question. Just chill out, motherfucker. About that character. Sure. Is I can't really pin down what the pastiche is. I think one thing I like about it is he's not doing one guy

because that would be too obvious, I guess, right? Like if he was just doing like... There isn't really a contemporary example of who he's playing. And I'm interested to... That's why I said Ryan Adams because even though Ryan Adams

has never been that big, he's that guy where you're like can this it's been 20 years i get that you want to crank out like a new country rootsy album every year but like stop drinking i was thinking of the guy in my morning jacket kind of vibe yes yeah i mean you know that's that's where he is but um i i don't know my feel is that whiskey town this land of roots rock you said earlier i think it's a good way of labeling it to me this kind of feels a little bit like just pandering to middle america in that that's where that's where rock music lives now it's the only place it is and is it though i don't know if that's true because i listen to a lot of cool indie rock indie Well, indie rock, sure.

But yeah, so I'm kind of saying- You have a lot more country-tinged rock now than you have kind of respectable country artists, if that makes sense. There's not a lot of rock and roll stars anymore. Like, who's a rock and roll star? Who we got apart from like- Jack White's the last one, I think. Axl Rose, Slash. Sure, of course.

Go on. Duffman King, yeah. Is that another person in Guns N' Roses? Yeah, of Go on Duff and Kagan Is that another person In Guns N' Roses Yeah of course I literally couldn't Name the others Dizzy

I actually Fuck ahead You know it's like Rock music weirdly Just sort of like As a Chart topping Phenomenon

Like It kind of just stopped Well cause like even I haven't had a chance To read it yet Me in the bathroom. Right. Which is about the New York scene.

That final boom. That was like really, I think the revival of those guys. And Ryan Adams is like literally the villain of that book where he keeps like, they'll be like, they were doing okay. And then Ryan Adams like popped out of a door and was like, you want to try so much heroin?

It's great. You know, what's good about heroin is it's very addictive and there's a bunch of it right here in my jean jacket i think that's the thing that didn't happen though with the meet me in the bathroom guys is like the strokes never became an arena act no i mean you know i wonder if they ever sold out arenas and stuff I mean like obviously you got your U2s and your 90s rock bands but yeah

I'm so disconnected like I don't know who sells out a stadium now I don't either I have no idea what goes on in music anymore those bands that become that big aren't as hard edged and the idea of like man they're fucking rock stars living a rough life like it's the opposite where it's like remember roadies though

I mean that was kind of about a similar kind of music yes yeah fucking rock stars living a rough life. It's the opposite where it's like... Remember Roadies, though? Remember Roadies, though. I mean, that was kind of about a similar kind of music. Yes. Yeah, like that band. The opening song of this movie, I couldn't stop thinking about Fever Dog. Yes, the opening song of this movie, which I can look at as rules.

I think it's a good song, but it's very Fever Dog-ish, isn't it? Yeah, well... Fever Dog! Come on. Walking out my door! Definitely went... Fever Dog! Well well even think about how we doing think about how like so many panic attacks yesterday like rock i'm worried about you rock stations like rock radio stations i mean the way they curate their playlists is they're still just playing the same

songs from the 60s 70s and 80s right and so I kind of even feel like the choice with making this reflect on, I guess, kind of the country, new country sound. Yeah, like you're saying, the reverb-y kind of rootsy rock. Yeah, I mean, I guess- I keep saying rootsy, but that's what it is. It makes sense, but it's just also- My money jacket can sell out in an arena easy, like for many days. It's just so not a thing, though, I think is like part of really mainstream culture.

And it just, to me, it makes sense, but it's like a little weird. I agree. I think one of the things, I'm trying to remember. I listened to some podcast where someone came on and was sort of a classic rock expert and was talking about the phenomenon of it. That's what that song's called. It's so good. Yeah.

But he was talking about the big thing that shifted is the rockers who got big in the 70s and especially in the 80s never stopped touring yes exactly

which was a new phenomenon and that's where the money is right yeah because those guys are the guys who were those guys 20-30 years ago are the ones still living like this Keith Urban

I'm looking at like who's playing the stadiums in New York which I think Keith Urban's had publicly rehab stints and things like that. I mean, he's a little more like that. I think the problem is it's like, because album sales don't

really matter anymore, because the radio is not the dominant culture. It's like, that's where you make your money. You gotta tour. You gotta tour constantly, because it's like, that's how you can pull in cash. It becomes like the Starbucks rock thing where the people who become the biggest touring acts are the people like Maroon 5 or

Coldplay where you kind of have to play to everybody and part of those guys reputations is that they're like nice people. Like who knows? Maybe like fucking Adam Levine is like huffing ether rags before he goes on stage. But one of the things is that like... Someone to isolate that, send it to Adam Levine. Yeah huffing ether rags before he goes on stage. But one of the things is that like. Someone to isolate that Senate to Animal Levine.

Yeah, please. But like, you know, he's on The Voice and he like promotes Clear A Cell. He's not trashing hotel rooms. And if he is, they're very carefully trying to make sure that no one knows that. Oh, I thought you said he very carefully breaks the mirror. He does do that as well. But then he makes it into like really interesting sort of like mirror art. he does do that as well but then he makes it

into like really interesting sort of like mirror art but my point is in order to become that big you kind of not have to pointedly not have that sort of baggage and the mystique of

oh my god he's like killing himself and he cares about the art so much the sort of Cobain thing which when this film was being developed sure that's part of it

in the Eastwood version the Eric Roth version they said they were trying to base it more directly off of the Cobain type of, I believe from my art. Or Pearl Jam or whatever. Right. You know, those sorts of, yeah. Right. But you go, either those people died or they're Pearl Jam and now they've kind of become dad rock and they're still a thing. And they write songs for Sean Penn movies. it is wise for the movie to have that kind of rockism versus poptimism debated at center because that is maybe that battle is over

right but even a few years ago kind of what you know like that's a good push and pull in music culture that you can like sort of like you know have at the heart of your movie it's a good idea yes in conclusion a plus five stars okay this has been blank check

I just think there used to be the mythology the lore of like did you hear how fucking insane this rock star was yeah

where's part of how crazy right and I feel like the equivalent to that now is Kanye West but every time Kanye West does

something people go like this is probably just a publicity stunt right this is like a performance well I mean yeah

there's that question it became also just like is he okay you know like I feel like a lot of the like kind of like I mean, yeah. There's that question. It became also just like, is he okay? You know, like, I feel like a lot of the like, kind of like psychedelic, almost like rap acts,

like the kind of like guys who were like real into like the lean, and there's like kind of that trap music. That becomes more the thing. That to me feels like more like rock stars. Someone like Lil Wayne is like closer to what Bradley Cooper's playing where it's like, ah, this guy's got so much ability,

and he can't keep himself straight. Right. He kind of is playing Lil Wayne in this movie. So we've hit on it. That's what it is. So Bradley Cooper is Lil Wayne, and Lady Gaga is sort of a reverse-engineered Lady Gaga in this movie. Kind of.

I mean, she's got the Long Island girl, kind of like big Italian family vibe, all that stuff. Andrew Dice Clay in such a good performance. This is, okay,

genuinely the reason I was shocked you didn't like this movie is because Andrew Dice Clay murders in this and I was watching and I was like, this is Griffin's

When he came on screen I was like, five stars, here I go, here we are. So, the first, I love the whole supporting cast

except, with one exception who? I think the agent's really uninteresting in this movie yeah he sucks the manager character

I just think I don't even blame the actor as much I just think there's no nuance to how they but that again

every movie it's exactly the same character who does exactly the same thing he only exists for three things and maybe this

you know maybe I'm reflecting too much of my own shit on this oh boy you've never done that never done that i never view weird to think that you would do that right um but but i also think it's something and once again not as someone who's like a fucking student of all the different versions of stars but understanding the myth of why this story has persisted in ho as this What Price Hollywood? Right, right.

This cornerstone, you know, is that the idea of like Hollywood as this kind of, or show business rather, as this sentient sort of malicious cloud. Right. It's enthralling, it propels you to

fame and fortune, and then it kind of like calcifies around you and suddenly you're trapped right yeah it's high risk high reward the agent is always that the agent is like right is like uh commercialism sort of seeping in and being like well you gotta do this that the other this guy's a problem now you know that like my problem is i feel like the movie doesn't have that cloud other than the agent whereas at least in the janet gainer version what i understand the other two is it's all sort of of a piece where it's like this guy is almost like a manifestation of what's happening around them whereas until the agent enters i'm like yeah

this seems fine i mean bradley cooper's got a drinking problem but i don't that doesn't feel connected to the industry it's connected to his notion of what kind of artist he needs to be yeah which i and once again it gets into my perverse things i like movies that are very cynical about the industry. It's connected to his notion of what kind of artist he needs to be. Which I, and once again it gets into my perverse things, I like movies that are very cynical about how much the industry ruins people. About how much the bubble around people fucks them.

But that's, okay, wait, what? I'm confused. You're saying this movie isn't that. I think it kind of isn't that. I think this movie's kind of the Titanic. It's the doom love story, but the doom is this guy is a ticking time bomb. Not this industry will end up corrupting one, if not both of them. But like.

Because everyone other than the agent character in the movie, I'm not saying everyone comes off as a good guy, but you have a lot of people around who are really trying to help him. Kind of, but like. Noodles. Look, noodles is great. But like the the noodle segment which is wonderful yeah is like noodles being like see like you can live a regular life like it's possible i'm doing it we're doing great like my wife is playing my wife robert de niro's daughter is playing our daughter is that robert de niro's daughter she's credited with the last name name deniro i don't know what else to tell you interesting i mean that's right that's my takeaway yeah probably um and cooper is like you know jackson yeah yeah and we should go through the

movie a little bit but yeah he's looking at this and he just wants to take another look at it well no he's immediately like you're perfect he just wants to take another look at it. Yeah, we all do. I just want to take another look at it. In that scene, he sees that, right? David? Yeah? With pleasure. With the pleasure. With pleasure.

Why hasn't he played Pepe Le Pew anyway? That's what I'm saying. Warner Brothers, remember when they announced that they were going to do a Max Landis Pepe Le Pew movie? Yes, I do. I can only imagine the visceral horror of that boardroom pitch. Like seriously.

Just picture it. I heard that's Cronenberg's next movie is the Max Landis, Pepe Le Pew. Do the script. No, he's doing a movie about the pitch. Talk about Hollywood. What price Hollywood? Jackson looks at that and is like perfect let's get married right now this is what I should do and like that's how you fix your problems you

lunatic but once again don't you think that's about the ways in which Jackson is broken rather than the way that sort of fame distorts these people. Success, the industry, the enablers. You're more interested in their fame. I don't care about fame stories. There's so many of those. Enablers, all that shit. Which, once again, this is my criticism. I just want to say this quickly.

This isn't me saying I think the movie's bad because it doesn't do that. I'm just saying I was sitting there watching going like, I kind of prefer that kind of story more than this story they chose to tell. And it's just a matter of the story they chose to tell. That's why I'm sitting there and going, I don't love it. But now I got my counter for you. Sure.

Or whatever. Like, I think that story is, I think that Cooper wisely makes it about two people rather than an industry. Because the industry thing's been done. And like, no one's done a movie like this in a long time. It's the fourth time.

And he's made a movie rather than a movie, which the a long time. It's the fourth time. And he's made a movie, rather than a movie, which the other three are about, fame corrupts. And the dude is always kind of a nothing character. And the woman is always a lovely, star-making, or whatever, sort of bright, shining performance.

This is a movie about, he's looking at it, he's like, this is an extremely... He's taking another look at it. He's looking at's looking at he's like this is an extremely he's taking another look at it he's looking at and he's like uh this is a codependent relationship like that is as thrilling as it is a fucking disaster like as any like relationship like that could be you know and i'm going to show you how thrilling it is creatively for them and i'm going to show you how much of a fucking disaster it is so i mean and i think this is going to show you how thrilling it is creatively for them, and I'm going to show you how much of a fucking disaster it is.

And I think this is going to be the complaint you hear from people throughout the year, and even the people who like this movie admit this, is the only three moments that I found thrilling are all in the first hour. Well, sure. Some people have been saying that. And some people have also been saying... Ding dong! Oh, there's a ding dong?

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Your dad's calling. I wonder what this is about. I wonder if your dad will like this movie. I wonder if my dad is blackmailing me. So the first 45 minutes, especially this movie. to me i'm just i i i think it's i think it's very exciting like poppy filmmaking like i really really love the first hour of this movie and i thought it was solid and i'm gonna drive you insane you're not driving me insane i'll tell you the couple moments where I got the rush.

The one moment where I went, ooh, I think I'm clicking into this movie, is not to jump ahead a little bit, but when she punches the guy at the bar. Sure. I got really excited that he's not the one who starts the fight and she does. And it just felt like,

oh, this is an interesting dynamic. Yeah, it is. And then you go to them at the supermarket and them in the parking lot, and I'm like, okay, this movie's cooking. Yeah, it is. And then you go to them at the supermarket and them in the parking lot and I'm like, okay, this movie's cooking. Yeah, it's an amazing scene. Right, and then when we get

to the scene that obviously is going to drive this movie to like a $60 million opening weekend. Maybe. It's certainly going to feast for months.

I think it's going to be within $10 million of Venom this weekend. That's my big thing. Venom's tracking at like $50 now. Maybe. Star Wars is tracking around $40 though, which is really good.

I think it's going to do over 50. That's okay. The box office numbers do not bear that out. I said that to you a couple weeks ago. You told me I was crazy. I'm going to stand by it. I think Star is Born is going to... Well, the Thursday preview numbers don't suggest that it will, is all I'm saying.

Well... It's more in like a Martian zone. It's going to like... I agree. I think it's going to make over to like every week. I think it's going to make over 200 million dollars and I think it's going to open over 50 this week.

All right. But wait. Okay. The stage scene. The shallowest moment. I felt shivers throughout my entire body and I sat in a

theater that looked completely wrapped in attention and it is one of those. It's like and I'm telling you I'm not going where it's like this movie so perfectly

builds up to this song where you have someone who has a commanding screen presence and the song is so engaging. Yes. And there's so much emotion and how they're doing it. And not just that, but like, you know, again, to run down how it's like, you know, him on stage, her at the shitty job. Right. And then they, you know, he's drunk. He goes to the bar.

I really like her first performance and the way the whole like the humor of that scene. What a like person he is like how exciting it is for him to be a person like so much of what's exciting for him in that bar scene is that like immediately he can just like park himself at the bar and everyone's just like nice to him. You know what I mean? He's so obviously because he poisoned by like he hates when the fame shit happens. He always just shuts down and goes like you're whatever, you know? Yeah, like when the guy's trying to get the picture with him that he's poisoned by like he hates when the fame shit happens he always just shuts down and goes like you're whatever you know like when the guy's trying to get the picture with him

but that he's so anomalous at this bar because they all know who he is but he's not the type of person what are you doing here and he's like this is drag bar and they're like yeah and like he's just having fun and he's like part of a like these are artists they're enjoying what they do all of them and he's so taken with it like the idea that he sings

for them like at least when I'm watching the movie i'm like this is not something he would do no like where he takes the cute bejeweled guitar little arts and crafts uh you know and sings the song for them like you feel like which which one thing i love about this movie is how good he is i think it's a great performance i think he's very good in it it's like he's immediately communicating you're like oh this guy's kind of like out of a haze for the first time in a while and that Sam Elliott says it later again after the big chalice performance

where he's like he hasn't done that like perform that well for a while. Yeah. And in that first scene he's like so you know he's doing that kind of like thing you see rock stars do something where they just like put their head next to the amplifier and they're just like let me just like blast my brain cells away right and this is the other thing they set up is that he's got

tinnitus right and he's sort of like you know I mean this is another reason Ben loved him probably why because I'm also going deaf yeah yeah I love being reminded of that hey Ben I'm just saying you came out of there with tears in your eyes but that's but that's my pitch for like what what's

so fun about all the stuff pre him even meeting lady gaga really and then you know then he's then he's with her uh and you know they've got the bar scene that you talk about the thing where he touches her nose uh-huh i think it's so clever because it's like it's so hard to do intimacy on screen without doing the same old shit sure like the audience i was with gasped at him touching her nose because it's just so weird that he's doing it. It's kind of funny. Yeah.

It feels very like he's sort of like invading her space a tiny bit, but she's sort of like okay with it. But it's like her soft spot. And Lady Gaga has talked about how much she feels self-conscious about her nose. I mean, there are clearly a lot of things that he rewrote to fit these other people. They're borrowing stuff from her personal life. The fact that he's literally doing a Sam Elliott impression. Totally.

The nose, the ear thing. I mean, he was tailor-making these roles to the cast he had. And it feels personal. Using their backstory, their baggage. It feels very personal. Casting Robert De Niro's daughter. I should actually look that up. Yeah.

Go on, go on, though. Go on. I mean, this is what I'm frustrated by, is that I can't offer a counterpoint saying this. I just sat there and I hear everything you're saying and none of it was 100% connecting for me other than these moments. I'll tell you another moment that totally fucking

worked for me. Yeah. The first night in the hotel when they started making out. Oh, you know what? Dreena De Niro is playing Chappelle's wife, maybe? So now I take it back. Right, I think that's one of De Niro's adult daughters. Chappelle's daughter is playing the daughter. That's what it is. Okay.

I figured this. And that is De Niro's daughter playing the wife. As the credits were scrolling, I just saw a Chappelle listed, Sanaa Chappelle and Dorena De Niro. And I was like, oh, maybe like Chappelle's wife just played his wife. Interesting. I wasn't thinking. Anyway, I think I got it reversed.

Anyway, go on. Yeah, you get what I'm saying. just didn't you didn't lock in right i and there were moments where i'd lock in and then i'd fall out of it you know and another one that really worked for me you talk about jackson main falls out of a couple of things yeah wagons for example one thing he doesn't fall out of is love with rx bars big fan of the product he's going near pacino yeah just build a wall between them or something i just want to take another nap on you let me sleep i'll rest my head on your boot i'm not wearing boots yeah um what else what else we got right yeah i was gonna say the moment of intimacy that really got me,

and I was looking for that moment. I'm going to analogize it to dating again. But you know when you're on a first date and you're just like, oh, fuck, I'm really, we're hitting some. It's not just that we like the same thing or something. It's like, right, there's some sort of chemistry in the way we're talking. There's a click, there's a pocket drop moment where you're just like I'm fucking harmonizing with this thing

that's how you refer to women right? this thing? no because I was going to say my favorite feeling is when I'm watching a movie and I feel like oh I'm falling in love with this movie not I'm enjoying it but I'm just like do whatever you want and my favorite Martian is Christopher Lloyd okay

you made back the comedy points you lost earlier in the show. I was trying to find a place. Do you know that was my birthday party that year? I think we've talked about it on this, but I'm not sure. Who cares? Jesus! All right, you're dating, that thing, you're falling in love with a movie. Right, so I'd have these moments, because there's nothing I love more than when I'm watching a movie,

and that first moment hits and I'm locked in with it and then I'm along for the ride. In this movie, I'd have those moments and then I'd lock out, you know? Nothing would turn me off, but I just wouldn't stay in it. Another one where I super locked in,

the moment of intimacy that really got me where I almost gasped, is the first night in the hotel, they start making out furiously. She goes to the bathroom. Right. That's really nice. Gets the towel.

The towel. In the pits and the crotch. Okay. And then she comes out. Yep. And Sam Elliott's dragging him into the bed, passed out. Right? Not just dragging him, kind of like folding him into the bed.

Like almost like with practice deficiency. Right. And we're going to talk about Sam Elliott's performance for two and a half hours. Oh God, he's so good. But then she falls asleep in the bed next to him. And the thing that I kind of gasped at is when they wake up in the middle of the night and very silently start undressing each other

yep and I was like this feels like a type of intimacy I don't see on I agree the screen I think that's what he has clicked on

in his direction of the movie right is he's so focused on the intimacy rather than the fame being the bewitching part right which I think is so clever

and like for that sort of middle of the night thing. We both toss at the same moment realize we're both awake for a moment. Oh yeah.

And without pillow talking or anything just very like slowly methodically. But it's also a little frightening because you're like oh my god this guy gets so drunk

that he looks dead. Yes. Right. And then he just wakes up and he's like let's get some eggs. But you know but for her so much of

the intimacy is that um she feels uncomfortable with the physical appearance well no no no like so like in the the parking lot scene right she doesn't sing for him until after he talks about like where he's from a little bit pecan ranch and stuff that's when she opens up a little bit like they're both like you know her thing that she's afraid of is that she can't be like seen as an artist like right she's a good singer but like no one takes you seriously saying like why doesn't it happen why doesn't it happen right he's talking about sort of that's something that like frank had and she's like i love performing i love the music i've been through this i've had the people reject me because they don't like my nose i don't even want to pursue

that kind of thing yeah so she's one of those weird people where it's like, I'm not stopping my regular performances of the thing I love. Sure. But I've sort of written off the notion of having to give in to the industry because I don't even want to be part of that. It's nasty. Right. But so what's enthralling about him to her is like that he sees her as like an artist. Like he's excited by what she's going to say.

The fact that he says, I think you're a songwriter, rather than I think you're a star is like a really, really good piece of writing. Because that's the number one thing she wants to hear is, you know, you have something to say,

not you're talented. Because he has the whole thing about everyone's got talent. Right. And that's what... Everyone in this bar has talent. Which I think is another great speech of his.

I think that's a good one. And conversely, what he's so drawn to in her is like, oh, here's like a a literal just like a fountain of creativity like and I'm so dried up because he never writes any songs in the movie no all his

songs except for the one at the end which rules but all his songs like his old songs you know and he's a star right and he did good music but you don't like he like his if he wrote songs now just be like I sit in a hotel room and crush pills with my boot. He's so lost. Seems like we're a fillable now.

He'd hire people to write a Jackson Maine type song. Yeah, and he has this romantic notion of like, oh, well, my daddy and I bought the ranch. And then he actually goes to visit the ranch. The ranch is a fucking wind farm. And he punches Sam Elliott. And Sam Elliott's like, yeah, I told you about this. I sold it years ago.

You were so fucking He, you know, you were so fucking drunk you didn't even hear me. Right, and also you're angry now but you didn't even bother to look at it for the last decade or whatever it is. Yeah. Like, where his notion

of his quote-unquote like, rock star truth is so far from the reality until she shows up. She sort of like, gets his creative fires lit. Which is why I love that the Livian Rose scene is all red.

Yes. So I know we're jumping all around. From being kindled. But it's also, I mean, this is a movie that people have seen it. They've seen it this weekend. So it's not like we need to do like a retrospective from a distance.

No, for sure. Right over of it. Right. The last part of Before the Shadows, I do also love where they're doing that song, where they're clicking the drumsticks together, like this sort of countdown song. Yeah. As she's like getting in grunberg's car going to the plane

they're on the plane the plane like that that like that he's cross-cutting which is so exciting it's like action movie shit to me i love it like it's so like momentum building and like the movie grabbing you and running you down the hall being like she's we're gonna run her right on stage and you're gonna totally buy that she can do this. It's one day of action. I know. The first hour of the movie. I felt like...

She's got a little bit of the Matrix Reloaded face, but not all of it. You know what I mean? It's sort of like, I get it, but it didn't work for me is Griffin's face right now. Yeah.

It's a movie. It's a big old Hollywood movie. movie i understand that you're gonna bind the movie logic and i don't demand literalism it does feel like there were times where i was like that's a pretty big jump in certain advancements of the story and he he cuts ahead a lot a lot yeah but i think that's just because he wants to keep moving. Like, it would be ludicrous if it took place in two months. Like, there's a lot of time jumps in it. I don't even mean that.

I mean, just sort of having characters come to things fast. Like what? Like, I mean... Like what? What's your nitpick? I don't want to be the Grinch coming down from Mount Crumpet. I hate to tell you fucking Benedict Cumberbatch over here

Benedict Cumbergrinch more like I got a sidebar for a second how do you hire Benedict Cumberbatch to voice the Grinch and direct him

to sound like me I know it's so weird cause I was like oh Benedict Cumberbatch is playing the Grinch he'll be going oh I'm the Grinch you know like

doing his deep voice I see the trailer and he's like oh I hate the who's I'm like why does he sound like me doing a podcast why is he some whiny asshole have you ever seen him do the bodysuit thing no it's oh yeah for the dragon for smog yeah yeah of course right you're like i want the grinch to sound like smog and you're like he sounds like Josh Gad. Why hire Cumberbatch?

Hire Gad. Hire Gad. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to say this and you're going to hate it. Oh, boy. And all of America is going to hate it and they're going to scream. Why do you hate joy?

Why do you hate Christmas? What's the thing you don't like? Why do you let Cindy lose? Don't build such a song. Decorate the tree. I'm going to throw this at you. What's your objection? He like, she sings like half the song in a parking lot and the next day he's like

fully orchestrated with his band and remembers all her lyrics. Yeah, he told her. Told her what? He says like I arranged it. It might kind of be bad, but like I came up with an arrangement. You're going to sing it, okay? He gives her like the little spiel. But he fully remembers the first half of the song before she comes out on stage.

Yep. I mean, I bought that. Totally. I don't care because I think the moment is totally effective. But there are other shortcuts I see the movie making like that at other. No, I would say because it's like that tradition of songwriters really respecting each other. And so I feel like he had that moment in the parking lot. It feels like a throwaway thing. But he really retained those lyrics and that melody and that core structure.

And he was able to then carry that to his band. And also beyond that, the parking lot scene, which is like sort of the best scene in the movie, probably if you had to like pick a scene, I agree. Uh, he's like such a thunderbolt for him.

Like, and like, so like the whole idea is that he is like after sort of years in a stupor alive again. So like, of course he's going to be locked into this song. He is so locked into her. Yeah. And then, you know, after the hit, I mean, there's a great scene in which Andrew Dice

Clay watches YouTube. And that's how many people are watching. So good. The audience fucking ate that shit up. Barry Shabaka, Henley. We got such a fun. If I can throw an actual strike against this movie okay they michael harney they barely use the berry when barry shabaka henley shows up in a

movie i get so excited for two scoops of berry i do love him and instead they just give us a little dollop he's just like a little sour cream on the side of the dish yeah he's one of the guys i agree um i did like the fact that Andrew Dice Clay looked like a person in this. I've been a fan of all of his recent, like, you know, he's very good in Blue Jasmine and everything, but he still kind of looks like old Andrew Dice Clay. And I like that he wasn't wearing the glasses,

didn't have the sideburns, he let his hair go fully gray. I like that he looks like a Joe. A Joe from Jersey or whatever. I agree. You know? Yeah, he's really good in it. I agree. You know? Yeah. Um, yeah, he's really good in it. I mean,

let's talk about the Sam Elliott thing a bunch of that. Right. So then this whole complicated that he was sort of the second, you know, sort of bastard child of a midlife crisis from an egomaniac and a drunk. Right. Right. Right.

Who tried to restart his life, I think with the same sort of pursuit of integrity he moved to Arizona to work on a farm pecan farm which I love especially because Bradley Cooper in that voice saying pecan is amazing pecan

I wonder if RX Bar is going to use Jackson Man who is of course their official spokesperson to do a special limited pecan bar. I'm sure they will. A bar is born. An RX Bar is born. Griffin's looking at us as if we're going to greenlight it.

We don't actually work for RX Bar. I know. I don't even know what I'm doing right now. You're doing great. Shut up. What? You are. Fuck you. Oh, God great. Shut up. What? You are. Fuck you.

Oh, God. This is outrageous. Negative a billion comedy points. You can't give me negative a billion comedy points for saying you're doing great. Fine. Plus two billion. I'll take them. No, the Sam Elliott thing is that the mother died during childbirth.

She was like 17. The father died when he was young. Sam Elliott kind of raised him. They have this weird sort of half parent, half sibling relationship. He's also a musician. Yes. The idea I think is initially like,

Sam Elliott was the musician. Yeah. Because like Cooper tells that story about his brother seeing him playing the piano when he's a kid and realizing like, oh, this kid's got talent. And him being so proud of the fact that his brother was like,

you know, invested in this. Right. uh but yeah dad made him his drinking buddy when he was 12 right and like yeah like there's also that allusion to like they were kind of a duo maybe but like it didn't fly yeah like because they let's later when they're driving you know he brings that up like if we'd had a good name maybe it would have been a better duo but yeah it's like eventually i guess the implication is jackson maybe the raw talent whatever maybe the more presentable talent whatever it is the big thing but he figures it out and he becomes the star and so his brother becomes like you know his his road manager and his handler yeah right it's consigliere um uh jumping to the end of the movie a moment another moment where i just locked in hardcore for a second is sam elliott looking back

to pull out of the driveway that's a great moment for both i think cooper kills that scene too like where he's like can't say i do everything he wants to say but he tries like sort of to get something out i do too too, but that... And there's such a wall between them. And then you cut to... I'll say that's a real actor's director move and it kind of stunned me. Cooper kills that,

but that's a classic great actor doing a great moment of emotional conflict. But then you stay with Sam Elliott in the car and I go, okay, so is he going to sit here in the the car and i go okay so is he gonna sit here in the park car and then we're gonna get the amazing shot of sam elliott breaking down against the steering wheel but we're staying sort of three quarters behind his head which is like brother group being a real friend of sam elliott and being like i'm gonna make you look the most impressive right and directs him to just continue on with the task at hand of right pulling this car

out of the driveway. But show us that like half of your soul is breaking right now. Right. Just with a sort of a look, you know, a little watery eyes. I saw Darren Aronofsky do a talk once and he talked about working with like non-professional actors or actors who hadn't done movies before and would get too nervous about the thing. Yeah. And he said you always give them a task to do. If they're worrying too much about the lines or the emotion,

you give them something to eat, the Brad Pitt move, you give them something they have to do with their hands, so they're more distracted by another task and then the emotions

tend to come out a little more honestly and a little less forced. And this is such a simple, graceful thing of just like, A, the device of like why he has to keep on looking over his shoulders

to the camera. Right, he's reversing. But B, that he's just trying to hold it together and stay focused. And camera. Right, he's reversing. But B, that he's just trying to hold it together and stay focused. And it does look like he just died inside. That's also the last time they see each other. Yes.

That is Cooper Jackson saying goodbye to him, you know, maybe intentionally or not. Yeah. Which is, yeah, in the middle there. Right, okay. So we did the first half. Yeah. Rules.

And then, yeah, right. Now, like, you know, fame's got to take hold. The sort of division's got to start sprouting up. And the movie's going to be less energetic and more about things falling apart. And so, yes, it is. It's a tougher watch. That's not my problem.

I mean, I don't think so, though, because I love the second half. No, go on. No, I just kind of... You're so... I don't know. It's like... No one's mad at you.

You know, it's like you said, oh, you're going to love this girl. You should go out with her. And then I come back and I'm like, we got along. It's like, what? Was something wrong? I was like, no, we like a lot of the same day.

We had a nice night. Sure. I don't know. I just like... It's fine. It's not fine. It's terrible. I'm retiring.

From what? Everything. No, you're not. I'm retiring from public life, like Ale it's fine. It's not fine. It's terrible. I'm retiring from what? Everything. No, you're not retiring from public life. Like Alec Baldwin. No, you are not. Well,

then, then I look forward to seeing you in a day. If that's the case, every time he retires from public life, he gets two new TV shows. Do you remember when it was literally cover of New York magazine? Why I'm retiring from public life by Alec Baldwin. And then he became a cast member

of Sarno and hosted the match game and hosted the fucking match game and he's gonna host the gong show or whatever 17,000 movies

he's in this yeah one thing I want to say oh he's so good in it he is great great performance yeah

is I love and you know they shot all the music is live they're singing it's not lip sync they didn't want to do Lady Gaga convinced

Bradley Cooper not to do lip syncing because she thinks she thought it would look cheesy all the concert stuff was filmed at actual concerts you know the opening stuff is from Coachella

and like they would just run them on stage and shoot for like 10 minutes like in between the acts it's a real band which is Willie Nelson's

son yeah it's promise of the yeah it's Willie Nelson's I mean that Sam Elliott when he leaves them goes to work for Willie I've been working for Willie I want to watch

the fucking spinoff movie about him working with Willie Nelson by the way that sounds great oh I thought it was Will Smith um

the millennium is here here are two assorted thoughts the two things I found most impressive in Bradley Cooper's performance. Yeah. One, really sells being a musician on stage,

which is a thing where a lot of actors fuck up. And I'm not even just talking about David's miming the guitar move. I'm not just talking about literally the, sort of, the physicality of the guitar playing or his singing, both of which are very good.

But the fact, the energy, I mean, the thing you were saying about slumping the head over the amp, you see every concert performance, you go, oh, this is that type of show. And it's very recognizable, unforced, unshowy, just really lived in, like, this is a guy who's done 8,000 concerts who's drunk stuff.

The other moment that really stunned me, you talk about him being in the drunken haze and realizing only after he goes to Ron Rifkin rehab, uh, triple R as we call it, R squared. Um, that, oh, he's literally been drunk this entire movie up until now. Pretty much. It's been different stages of drunk. Yeah. He, there are times when he's not drunk, but it's few and far between. And when you see him post rehab and you're like, oh, this is the first time I'm seeing sober

Bradley Cooper the whole movie. This is more like the Bradley Cooper I know. Sure. Right. It is that very effective tool in movie making, which is you withhold something from the audience so they don't realize they've been lacking it until you bring it back to them. I just want to say something.

Yeah, I just... No, go ahead. You realize no, but just like in that final scene not final scene but the final stretch where he comes back out of rehab when you're just like when he's just kind of sitting around oh right his skin doesn't always look his leather you know his eyes aren't always glassy like you get so used to that as being the baseline with Bradley Cooper

and your notion of sober becomes more sober than usual rather than a totally direct sober Bradley Cooper performance I don't need to go to rehab right now more sober than usual. Right. Rather than a totally direct sober Bradley Cooper performance. I don't need to go to rehab right now. Uh-huh. And I don't want to, you know,

I don't want to belittle rehab. You're talking personally as David Sam? Yes. David Lawrence Sam. If I could go to a thing where I just kind of hang out with Ron Rifkin for like six weeks

and swim in a pool, wouldn't say no. Seems fun to me. Here's another thought I had during this. Just like, I just have chats with Ron Rifkin and then I swim? Well, I... Seems great. great and once again i'm dealing with my own shit right

but i in that scene with him and ron rifkin talking on the bench went like fuck i want to be old so i can play ron rifkin part i had that distinct thought where i was like i'm so done with my career can i just be old and play ron rif parts? Can I show up for two scenes and just be like a pretty good listener? And I was like, am I going to need to go to rehab? So here's the, here are our takeaways from that. You were like, I wish I was Ron Rifkin. You were like,

I need to go to rehab. And I was like, I'd love to just hang out with Ron Rifkin and swim. Right. I'm going Hollywood is evil. I just want to be Ron Rifkin. Ben goes, I should call Ron Rifkin and check my in to Ron Rifkin's house of rehab. And your notion was five out of five masterpiece would fuck again.

Rifkin. I was so happy when he showed up. I know. It's that thing we talk about where you just- Joanna turned to me with like glee in her eyes because she loves alias. When you just get a good, my favorite term for this, but just a good steady hand character actor where you just turn to me with like glee in her eyes because she loves alias when you just get a good my my favorite term for this but just a good steady hand character actor where

you're like okay i'm gonna be treated right for these couple of scenes ron rifkin's not gonna do me dirty i told you're totally right he's a steady hand he's a pro it's true he's a hand at the tiller here yeah uh riffy he's looking skinny though i hope he's okay he's kind of skinny in this movie he's always been a skinnier guy. You know what I love him in is fucking L.A. Confidential. Yeah. He's so good. He's also just got a great face and a great voice and his name is Ron Rifkin. He gets a lot of points

for being named Ron Rifkin. It's a perfect character. The movie just kind of riffs for 10 minutes. I think does he share a title card with Baba Shabaka Henley? Maybe, I'm not sure. Because that was the point where... Right, sorry.

Go on. I'm not even going to make my joke now. Okay. I was going to say that was the point where they kicked me out of the theater for masturbating. Oh, God. It was when there was the split card with Barry Chewbacca Henley and Robert. Oh, boy. Cut it out and then double it.

So, Ally gets famous. Yeah. A ally gets famous yeah a star is born when a star is born starts making pop music yeah i've seen some criticism about like how the movie is like sort of you know um derisive or dismissive about pop music i don't think it is for one i don't think it is all the lady gaga song pop songs are good in my opinion and the soundtrack's out now and you can i've been rocking out to it it fucking rules um the only song that is quote unquote bad is the one written by diane warren about jeans which one's that the one she does on snl though why do you look so good in those jeans like you know the one that he makes fun of the one that he's not into um that's kind of it's insane that diane warren wrote it hey

diane you want to write one song for a movie? It's the bad one. Well I wonder if the conversation was literally like Diane you're a pro you've written so many songs for movies can

you write a song that's sort of supposed to come off as a little cheesy. Yeah I wonder. Because it's still kind of you know it's a little bit of

a it moves. You think it fucks? It doesn't fuck. It slaps? Yeah. It wears a pair of jeans um but then they have that scene

in the bathtub where he's drunk he starts calling bullshit on the song he calls her ugly I mean all that stuff and I was like right okay

here's that star's born turn he's nasty where he becomes like evil he's nasty about her art he never let me see so in the bathtub he does call her evil

ugly a bunch he says you're ugly but he says it after she uh has started making fun of his dad and i think you know like there's sort of he has that kind of plausible drunk deniability was like i'm talking about how you're behaving yes but it also feels like he's being nasty yeah like he's hitting her where he know it hurts right that's the word that's gonna right that's the word that's gonna set her off yeah and um but what it feels like more than that is like he doesn't like the fucking manager he doesn't like you know the sort of pop apparatus right apparatus apparatus yeah um but yeah he just thinks apparatus you know he just thinks like she's not like telling her truth anymore

and it's like fucking settle down you old coot you know that's how i feel in that scene where i'm like not every song is gonna lay it all on the line like i like to do you know and that's what sam elliott is calling out of him earlier but he's he's too like you know wrapped up in himself to really hear him also he can't hear right he's got that issue this was like multiple times where he's like what like yeah he can't hear. He's got that issue. There's multiple times where he's like, what? He just can't hear people. When he goes up to him at SNL and Sam Elliott asks him the question,

he answers something different. Do you know what I'm talking about? I forget what the exact lines are, but Sam Elliott asks him something directly. It's at Willie. Sam Elliott is basically like, yeah, I can't remember what it is. Bradley Cooper gives him a stock answer to what he assumed he asked because he can't hear him. Sam has a look in his eyes where he's like, oh, he can't remember what it is though. Bradley Cooper gives him a stock answer to what he assumed he asked because he can't hear him. And Sam has a look in his eyes where he's like,

oh, he can't even fucking hear. Right. Yeah. I love all that. But yeah, I mean, I think like this movie is kind of always on Ali's side. And then it's like, you know, this is what being famous is like now.

And yeah, there are some trade-offs you have to make. Yeah. But there are things like he's like, you're going to have blonde hair. And she's like, I'm not going to have blonde hair. She ends up having like this sort of reddish hair that's more like a sort of neon version of her own hair, right?

You know, and he's like I want to use the dancers. She doesn't want to use the dancers. Finally when you see her with the dancers, she's sort of like they're like a team, like they're with her. But once again, the only sense of that you get is from this one sort of very flatly written manager character. What do you mean?

I mean, he's the lone representation of the pressures of... Well, you know... Because he's the mouthpiece for all of it. You don't hear it from anyone else. It's a long movie. It is. And the other ones are so much longer. They're three hours.

The Gaynor one is... Not the Gaynor one, but the Garland and Brab's ones are three hours full hours long and you just can't do that yeah so yeah i mean there's a little bit of abbreviation i just don't mind that i also think like the movie does you know it could get so sludgy so i i mean i'm gonna you're gonna be angry that i'm comparing it to another movie yeah but i was throughout watching this film going oh man this really makes me want to watch beyond the lights uh-huh which you know i love i love it too is a movie where we saw it together But I was throughout watching this film going, oh man, this really makes me want to watch Beyond the Lights. Which you know I love. I love it too.

It's a movie where we saw it together and I sat and turned to you and said, I want to fuck this movie. And I had that moment of just like, I'm in love with this thing. But I think that movie really gets at the, I feel the emotional claustrophobia in that film of being caught in the whirlwind of a career. But that movie has a shitty romance. I prefer the romance in that movie. Oh, I don't agree. The problem with that movie

is the fame stuff is terrific, but the romance is so perfunctory. Disagree with him. Okay. I cry when he says I love you. Okay. Well, the romance in that, I feel like is what's given short shrift,

which is what, the romance is always given short shrift in these movies. And I think, I like that he's balanced it the other way. I prefer that movie on both fronts.

Well, I don't, but I do like Beyond the Lights a lot. I think it's great. It fucks. It does, David. Don't give me that look. Yeah.

All right. It fucks. I don't know. I like, Ben is making fuck fingers with his hands. Someone try to explain this to the listener. With two fingers on one hand, he's making a small circle,

almost like an okay. Then the other finger is representing... It's a bit phallic if I do say so myself. And he is fucking the circle with the pointer finger. Yeah, Nate Parker. I mean, look. I'm no fan, Nate Parker, he's, I just, I mean, look,

I'm no fan of Nate Parker. Sounds like you love Nate Parker and cry about him all the time. I don't like his work, I just like his personal life. But, Jesus.

That was a joke. That was a terrible joke. One of the five worst jokes Nate Parker has always struck me. He's like, he's just a little flat. Like, I don't love him in anything.

I agree with you other than that one movie. Yeah, romance in that whatever the parent stuff in that i like mini driver a lot sometimes it's a little like don't yell the whole movie at me but i do like that movie a lot they're both big hollywood movies they're not trafficking in subtlety i think they are trafficking in a sense of specificity within a grand Hollywood sort of drama. Dan Warren also wrote a song for that movie. At least one. I just felt like and this just gets into personal

preference. That movie was more in the wavelengths of the things I kind of want to see out of this sort of story. It's a different narrative. But you already got that movie. I know and I was sitting there and going ugh I want to watch that again. Blech. Blech you. No. Blech. I think you mean blah blah blah i don't know david what what am i supposed to say so grumpy this is what i'm worried about can i

tell you what i'm worried about okay i feel like i'm gonna have five months ahead of me of like the fucking culture war of star is born versus whatever the other big Oscar front runner is. My question is, I don't know what the other is going to be, but yeah, possibly. I don't know. And I feel like there's always the thing that I always hate I fall into

where you start fighting about my movie rather than your movie. And every year, Oh, I just hate that. About this time of year, I vow to myself, like, just like the movies you like, just like the movies you like.

It's not a competition except for the part where it literally is a competition. They give out Goldman. They do. Little Goldman. Hashtag little Goldman. They give out Goldman. They do. Little Goldman. Hashtag Little Goldman. Plug to Little Goldman.

Right? And there's a difference between the Interatu movies, which I hate, versus something like this where I'm like, I just don't love it. But I also just was watching this knowing I wasn't loving it, knowing that I liked it enough. And I'm like, fuck. I know four months from now I'm going to be at a bar arguing the relative merits of this versus whatever

the thing is that I want to win over. Griffin, what if you give yourself another chance and let's just say that maybe you might watch it again and like it more.

That's possible too. You might come around to it. It's possible. Admittedly, it was not in a great headspace when I saw it last night. No, didn't sound like it. But I was really like amped for the movie. Sure.

Um, and I wanted the, the highs and lows of the thing. And I felt the highs. I didn't feel the lows in the sense that maybe I didn't buy into the grand tragedy of the thing as much as I bought into the little moments of, of intimacy and things like that. Well,

so he kills himself. He does. In a manner in which a lot of rock stars have killed themselves, unfortunately. Probably his best director flourish is the lights, the police lights. It's a really good shot. That whole sequence I think is great. That's his dog.

That's Bradley Cooper's dog, Charlie. Playing the dog. Obviously, the real star is born right there. Dog's great. Well, like, all that stuff, like, you know, the acting teacher I really liked, who I've talked about before on the podcast, was Bradley Cooper's, like, main teacher.

When he wins the Oscar this year, which I believe you are correct, he will win. I think so. He will probably spend 75% of his speech crying about her because he cites her as the most important figure in his entire life. Right. And like a lot of other acting teachers, a thing that

she would sort of talk about is really trying to find those personal connections into the thing. Find the areas, not reaching further to a character that's further away from yourself, but the things that then just become truly honest. So things like that relationship with the dog makes

a lot of sense. The dog is so good on camera with him because that's a dog he actually has a relationship with. And using Lady Gaga's nose and his ears. And all these things that are tied into these real sore spots for the actors, not just the characters. I liked all of that stuff. I'm excited

to see what Bradley Cooper continues to do as a director it's gonna be weird because this first movie is so fucking big that I don't know what the rest of his career looks like now he'll probably just keep making big movies I'm trying to see some other like if there's any other sort of

tidbits buried in here I think her last performance is really good I really like that song. I like that she doesn't say, I'm Mrs. Jackson Maine, which is how every other one of the movies ends. With the... Not Jackson, but they always say,

I'm Mrs. Norman Maine. She's always called Esther in the other movies too, which is funny. I guess they just decided Esther on a big billboard wouldn't pop, but I disagree. Yeah. But yeah, she doesn't say that.

She says, I'm Allie Main. And we should mention Esther Zuckerman was the second choice for this behind Lady Gaga. Okay. Our friend Esther Zuckerman. We love Esther Zuckerman. She loves this movie. Star of Easy Rider. Our upcoming biopic as part of the Blank Check.

Easy Rider. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. premiered at the Venice Film Festival great long reviews everyone loves it I'm gonna be the other people don't like it too here's the thing I always

let me explain why it isn't good I hate that thing I'm worried I'm gonna fall into the mud and start wrestling I don't wanna wrestle wrestle. I hate wrestling. Oh, he's going to wrestle. That's always my thing with this. It's like, everyone who likes their movie, that's great.

Yeah. And if you want to say your piece about what you don't like about the movie a couple times, fine. But like, yeah, doing the endless sort of like, well, isn't that bad? Unless it's Birdman. Birdman's an evil that we must fight. There wasn't a birth. That's true. And you know what?

Fuck this movie. It's bullshit. So what do you think you're going to like, though? That's my question. Like, what's the Oscar movie you feel like you're going to lock into? I also just don't know what the competitor to this movie is going to be. Predator. Well, I don't know if it's like a major Oscar movie because it is more of like an artsy sort of like thing.

I don't know if it's like. Hotel Transylvania 3? I was going to make Ralph Breaks the Internet. I mean, you stole the fucking. of like thing I don't know if it's like I was gonna make Ralph Breaks the internet I mean you stole the fucking I mean I don't and your joke makes less sense because I've already seen it we are doing a Ralph Breaks the internet episode yes I don't know

I mean what am I really Roma I'm am for I like we're on a lot a lot a lot first man is coming up favorite yeah I mean if Beale Street could talk, is Wonderful. Widows is Wonderful. That's probably what I'm most excited.

I mean, like, fucking Moonlight's my favorite movie of the decade. So I, you know, to hear that he has a new movie and that people liked it, I imagine I'll go crazy for it. Maybe. You might not.

I'm very excited for the PG-13 re-release of Deadpool. Obviously. I mean, everyone's excited for that. I mean, I'm looking through stuff. Welcome to Marwen. Soon we're all going to go to Marwen. That's really great.

Yeah, go ahead, Ben. Ben has to pee. They played the trailer for The Mule before the movie. Oh, I am so in for The Mule. We already talked about this, I think, in another episode, but I'm angry that he doesn't have drugs in his butt. Apparently, they're just in the back of his truck. A lot of pecans, though, in that trailer. A lot of pecan talk.

Like Cooper. Do you think he bought stock? Did he buy futures and pecans though in that trailer a lot of pecan talk cooper do you think he bought stock did he buy futures and pecans pecan futures um uh i i i unfortunately like i'm so excited for the mule i am too god even though i think it'll probably suck like i don't care trailers are so i know why are they always american sniper trailer rules right that's the best trailer of the decade it's such a good trip it certainly helpedniper trailer rules. Right. That's the best trailer of the decade, if you ask me. It's such a good trailer. It certainly helped its massive performance, I think. Sully trailer's great, but obviously Sully is even better because it's American Masterpiece. We spell freedom S-U-L-L-Y.

I mean, that is the interesting thing. Ben was talking about the choice to make Bradley Cooper kind of this country western star. That is the interesting thing with him is that like uh pecan ranch pecan ranch um it is interesting maybe that's the rx bar flavor is it's pecans with ranch sauce ranch dressing perfect and egg whites um it is interesting that bradley cooper has become this partial avatar for like red state america because american sniperniper was very much like finally a movie for us. I don't know if this movie is going to be an avatar for Red State America

from the initial reactions but audience I saw it with was crazy about it but I will say it was also like 92% women and I think this movie is going to be one of those massive like oh right we should make a movie that women want to see. It turns out they show up in droves. Lady Gaga is amazing in this movie fyi we haven't really talked about her

enough yeah she rules she's natural she's human she feels like a person i didn't think she added in her you know all the other sort of acting roles she's done it's all image and glam and sort of like extreme uh you know archness yeah and none of that's present here god her face in those early scenes the way she's just looking at him like is this guy totally full of shit yeah or is this for real like it's basically like what she's sort of like is slowly getting ground down in those early scenes yeah we're like is he just like a famous guy who's trying to like have a cool night or like you know

is all this shitty saying yeah I don't I mean whatever you seem less enthused yeah I was less enthused

with her performance but I don't know if I have like pointed gripes or anything she probably won an Oscar it's weird

she got a fucking huge applause break at the end credits by theater yeah you think she's gonna win I think it's going to win?

I think it's possible. I think the reason she doesn't win would just be the Oscars being like, the nomination is your reward. Like, you know, this movie's winning elsewhere. And like, this is like your first big role. That's kind of why I think she's not going to win. But she doesn't have an obvious competitor, which is why I think she will win.

There's just not, there's no one who's got this sort of big juicy role plus no oscar like to sort of make a run except for glenn close who's in this like you know yeah respectively received respectively received summer indie movie that did okay like and for glenn close if she's winning it's literally just like well she's never won oh you're forgetting the other really big hyped up female performance of the year what um uh kira knightley and nutcracker in the forefront you were struggling there yeah i mean i don't want to have you seen the trailer where i don't want to talk about a

movie i wrote and directed i just think it's weird i I don't want to talk about a movie I wrote and directed. I just think it's weird. I think it's weird to talk about it when I poured my soul into that movie. And let's admit that, David, you are a paid sponsor for this episode, Nutcracker, and the four realms unite the four in theaters this Christmas. Look, I'll admit, my pitch to Disney was three realms. They added a fourth realm.

I've never been fully comfortable. Fucking Hollywood. See, they won't let you make a small, intimate story. I mean, that's the success of Star is Born. It's a small intimate human story. You're just a boy. You want to tell a nice tight, controlled story. Three-realm story. It's a three-realmer.

And they're like, this movie... Look, three realms, this movie makes 80 million. Four realms. The multiplier. They had this graph. I think they might have been selling me a bridge. You also delivered them an airtight realms the multiplier they had this overreaching yeah i i think they might have been you know selling me a bridge like you also you you delivered them an airtight diamond cut three realm structure screenplay it has a clear one act one realm one realm one realm one right it's true

some people are gonna say the fourth realm feels tacked it's gonna feel lumpy but i'm not gonna tell you which realm wasn't my realm. Okay? So you're going to have to figure that out from yourself. I think it's obvious. Can we do a four realms episode? Yeah, we're going to release that to a black hole. It won't be on the internet, but we'll just shout it into a singularity. Yeah, you can record that one on your own.

Yeah, Ben's like, like yeah i'll produce that never yeah uh so we're gonna release our nutcracker in the four realms episode on feral audio oh boy i think that i think the doors have closed on that one haven't they i don't know about that oh god uh i mean what we've been recording five hours i have to go to comic-con yeah you do yeah you're gonna do great i think so i don't know i've been recording five hours. I have to go to Comic-Con. Yeah, you do. Yeah. You're going to do great. I think so.

I don't know. I've been a very nervous state. I know you've been a bit of a nervous wreck this week. I have. I'm about to move. I'm going to wreck it. You're going to move. Much like Ralph, I'm going to wreck it.

Ben, we had a great time at Star is Born. We love Griffin. I love you guys. Griffin's the best. He's going to be fine. You're going to be fine. I'm going to be fine. Coming up after this is Nancy Meyers.

It's mostly in the can for us. We've done most of them. All but the last two. Yep. And I think it's gone great. It's been a lot of fun. I think we've got some great guests. We have a lot of really exciting first-time guests.

A couple good first-time guests and some nice returners. Yeah. The holiday episode, the dog is off the leash. The dog's off the dog park. God knows where he went. He's all over the place with that one. He's on the cat ranch.

Lock the gates, baby. He might sneak out. Yeah, we did record it at the cat ranch. By the way, when I said a lot of new exciting guests, Mark Maron is the guest

on every Nancy Meyers episode. We figured he had the right voice for them. We're your kitchens. He loves the intern. I don't know if you know that. Does he had the right voice for them. Yeah. Who are your kitchens? He loves the intern. I don't know if you know that. Does he? He brings up the intern a lot.

Is that just like because he saw it? I feel like Mark Rant doesn't see a lot of movies. Yeah, but he brings up a lot. Every time he has like any film person on, he goes, have you seen the intern? De Niro's like fucking great in that, right? Like he's throwing heat. He's like right in the pocket.

I mean, we'll talk about it. That's one of the only ones we haven't talked about. Yeah, we'll talk about it That's one of the only ones We haven't talked about Yeah we'll talk about it Well Griffin's a grumpy guts But this was a great episode I'm not grumpy I just feel worn out

And all this sort of stuff Yeah You know I'm far from the shallows You are Now Now I am at least We're gonna do whatever

Bradley Cooper movie comes next Yeah Bernstein or whatever it's called Leonard Part 7 I hope it's something So stupid The movie? I hope it's something so stupid the movie I hope

singing and dancing no like I no no no I hope that Bradley Cooper like doesn't make Bernstein oh he makes like a U-turn and he's like you know what I'm gonna remake

Suspiria again I'm gonna do G.I. Joe 3 you're right World War Z 2 Fincher won't take it I just snatch it up baby or maybe he hears he hears my pitch

and we finally get the buzz oh well first of all I mean right they have their first look deal at Warner Brothers so Phillips and Cooper the two guys to get but I'll say if Bradley Cooper is looking for a good follow up performance of this Night Eggs is right in his wheelhouse Detective Night Eggs

yeah yeah absolutely I'm still in the process of working on that White's has first look at that one though Night Eggs is right in his wheelhouse. Detective Night Eggs? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. White says first look at that one, though. That's a White's picture. Yeah, yeah, he's part of the package. Could you just imagine Coop, though, crushing eggs with his boot? I could.

This episode's a masterpiece. Yeah, I guess so. Oh, my God. Take some pride in this beautiful thing we created. I know. All right, get out of here. Okay. Can yeah what else we gotta say anything else no the mule i hope it's muley i hope it's muley i'm really excited for that one uh i don't know let's see um nancy's yeah coming up we talked about some of this while you were in the bathroom okay great yeah then let's go. Let's just go?

Okay. Hey, look. Here are a couple things I want to say, and I want to say them clearly, okay? On the record. I don't care who I offend. I just want to take this moment to stump speech. Stand on my soapbox and say this.

Yep. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Despite what anyone else might tell you, thanks to Manfred Gutter for our social media. Despite the dirty rumors out there, thanks to Joe Bone and Pat Reynolds for our artwork. Lane Montgomery for our theme song.

Go to blankiesr.com for some real nerdy shit. Go to TeeBublic for some real nerdy merch. And as always, you just want to get another bite out of it. David, as everyone knows, this podcast started out as a sort of hard-hitting journalism. True. Asking the big questions. Asking the big questions

and we veered away. The show has now become a bit of palooza that's true despite a lot of movie talk it's trying to be a no bits podcast it's become a lot of bits about movie we can deal with that in 2019 i feel like we can tackle it we'll get back on on message yeah we'll figure it out right but in the meantime if you got that sort of like real true crime drama itch yes a real probing podcast i got one to recommend for you david listen okay if you like cereal okay if you like uh s town dirty john any of these you might like a podcast called dead man talking oh that's uh created by audio boom yeah right here baby audio boom yeah dead man talking is about the death row confessions of the railroad killer. Okay. Angel Resendez, who crisscrossed the U.S. by freight train in the 80s and 90s, choosing his victims at random before he was executed by the state of Texas in 2006.

That's spooky. That's extremely spooky. I'm bummed out right now. Okay, but here's the twist. Okay. Shyamalan style. Before his death, Resendez spoke to journalist and host Alex Hannaford and claimed on tape to have killed as many as 40 people. More than he was arrested for.

No good. Very bad. Don't do it. Don't do it. But do listen. Yes. As each episode takes a confession and leads Alex on an investigation to find out the truth. Okay, because here's a double Shyamalan.

You got to ask yourself, was the railroad killer lying in order to slow down his journey to the execution chamber? Was he even more sinister than anyone could have imagined? A little bit of an unreliable narrator. Features interviews with his only surviving victim. That must be a weird club to be part of. The psychiatrist who knew him best. Attorneys who worked on the case. Two inmates currently serving life sentences for crimes.

Resendez claims he committed. We've been trying to book them as guests on the show. I'll tell you, they're hard gets. So you visit Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast directory. Search for Dead Man Talking.