Blank Check with Griffin & David - A Star Is Born (1976) with Rachel Zegler

Episode Date: January 14, 2024

Hello Gorgeous! We’re kicking off our Barbra Streisand series (titled “Podcastl,” naturally) with a look at her version of the classic Hollywood cautionary tale - 1976’s A STAR IS BORN. And who better to join us than our own songbird superstar - the lovely Rachel Zegler! While Babs didn’t technically direct this one, she and her partner Jon Peters (Bradley Cooper in LICORICE PIZZA, duh) exacted supreme creative control over the project - to mixed results. Join us as we trace the beginning of Streisand’s career, go down several rabbit holes of who else was considered for this movie (Elvis, Sonny and Cher), and speak fondly about Mariah Carey’s GLITTER. Because, why not?! This episode is sponsored by: ExpressVPN (ExpressVPN.com/check) Burrow (Burrow.com/check)  The Late Show Pod Show Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com or at teepublic.com/stores/blank-check

podcast closely now. Podcast closely now. Oh, dear. You got more? I mean, the song's pretty much those two lyrics. Yeah. Well, it's closely now. I thought it was great.

I mean, because it was the podcast, soft as an easy chair. That's all right. A podcast, fresh as the morning air. I feel very embarrassed doing this in front of you. Love is said a lot in this song. You could sub in the word podcast for love. No, what I was going to do was just, you can trash your podcast, but you're not going to trash mine.

Okay. I was going to do mine okay i was gonna do that but all that life that's pretty good yeah yeah i feel like that's the big line that is kind of the big line in 1976 as a star is born a third out of four films in the storied stars born franchise sure yeah i guess so franchise whatever i'm to call it a franchise. Okay. Yes. A-S-I-B-C-U. The A-S-I-B-C-U. I want like Pixar theory and... The Starbirth-C-U.

The Starbirth Cinematic Universe. I want a Pixar theory and argue that they all take place in the same universe. In a way. Like this is a curse that gets passed on. Well, that's the thing. Judy Garland exists in the Lady Gaga one because she sings somewhere over the rainbow.

Right. That's true. That's fascinating. So, you know, she was never Esther. She was Judy. Yeah. Right.

I had never seen this film before. Oh. We cover... You'd never seen this one before. We cover the Bradley Cooper movie on this podcast, Blank Check with Griffin and David.

I'm Griffin. I'm David. Podcast about filmography is directed to have massive success early on in their careers and have given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear. Sometimes they bounce, baby. We covered Bradley Cooper's A Star is Born because we felt like that was a director's

career being born. Yes. Yeah. A hundred percent. I think we don't really do as much anymore, but we'd be like, well, let's find more new release films to put on the schedule. Yeah. And now we're like,

less new release films. Less stuff in general. Although, we'll have done Maestro at this point. Yes. Are you excited? Have you seen it?

I am. No, I have not seen it, but my dog is named after Leonard Bernstein. Your dog, who's here in the studio today, the second ever dog guest on Blank Check.

Yeah, and he's doing a good job. He's doing a great job. And I will say, I know those kids. I know the Bernstein kids very well. And they're just lovely. guest on blank check yeah and he's doing a good job he's doing a great job and i will say i know those kids i know the bernstein kids very well and they're just lovely and so seeing all these videos of them it is funny that we call them kids because they are all they are they're like 60s and 70s children and and maybe grandchildren as well yeah but yeah it is just one of those things I'm particularly in Communication with Alex Bernstein

And he's the son The only son And they're just the most delightful people It makes me happy to see them Celebrating Having fun man I'm not looking to start a controversy And I wasn't going to bring it up

OG me controversy I wasn't going to bring it up. Oh, gee. Me, controversy? I wasn't going to bring it up. Okay. It's the last thing I want to do. All right. But I do have to ask now. It looks like your dog is wearing a fake nose. Your dog, Lenny Bernstein.

He does have a nice big nose. Right, but Steven Spielberg was there. Okay. And it's not a problem. That's all I'm asking. If your buddy Steve signed off on it, I'm okay with it.

I will say the Bernstein kids, at least Alex, did sign off on his name being Lenny. I was like, I just want to make sure you don't think it's weird. But he is the specific, you know, he's named after Mr. Bernstein. Yes, yes. Can you imagine if you saw a dog that was wearing a prosthetic nose? Either version of that. Either wearing a rubber human nose. Or a big dog nose.

Or you're like like that snout looks a little exaggerated yeah sometimes I want to put him in like those sunglasses like the big like chunky glasses

yeah they want like with the mustache and everything my sister's dog one of the all time great dog scruffing women dearly departed

she when she was a little girl she described she said to me he's the kind of dog where he'd look smart if you put glasses on him. Isn't there, there's this Disney movie called Meet the Robinsons.

Oh, yeah. Where he's like, Absolutely. He asked why the dog is wearing glasses and he says, because his insurance won't pay for contacts. It's a good ass joke. Meet the Robinsons is one of many movies that will come up sometimes in like box office games on this podcast. Yeah.

And David says like a movie I will never see. And I'm like, my friend, you got a one and a half year old. I'm gonna be honest. You're getting to meet the Robinsons. She's two and a half now. Oh, Jesus. You're right. She's my daughter.

Fucking Christ. She's two and a half years old. Oh, yeah. She's two and a half. Yeah. She's talking. Yeah. Yeah. There's some really good Tom Selleck jokes in it.

Cool. Great, great, great movie. The frogs are fun. It's a fun movie. The frogs are fun. Yeah. I'll see it sometime. There's some really good Tom Selleck jokes in it Very cool Great movie The frogs are fun The frogs are fun You'll get to the end of Disney Plus at some point Yeah And I have the DVD And I was at the cinema when it opened

So part of those box office numbers I was there You must have been 2007 I was 6 years old I have yet to see it We just watched Bluey and Ponyo there you must have been okay 2007 right you were six you were six years old okay there you go uh i have yet to see it uh we just watched bluey and panio over and over and over again that's all we watched and you watch musical numbers you watch yeah we watched like youtube clips of seven brides for seven brothers yes exactly and i'm like this the plot of this movie is what you need to pay

attention to but it's russ tamblyn that we're really watching right now let me let me finish table setting here yes Yes, please. This is the start of a new miniseries. That's right. Lenny's starting to doze off, so just be quiet. He is. Don't disturb Lenny. This is the start.

I'm going to go Alec Barlin. Go pull Chris Christopherson. This is the start of a new miniseries. Do you think that's what Christopherson thinks? A new miniseries. Do you think that's what Christofferson thinks? A new miniseries is born. Blade, you need to go kill the vampire. I've never seen a dog with his eyes open my whole life. I walk into a room, they snooze. This is a new miniseries on the films of Barbra Streisand.

Amazing. It sure is. We have not discussed what the name of this miniseries is. Oh my gosh. That's a good point. Wait, you guys haven't or you haven't told anybody what it is? We haven't discussed. I feel like we had one conversation. I have my pitch. The podcast has two faces? Because let's say, our

guests today return to the show. And first time IRL. First time IRL, thank God. There's no dang pandemic. It's definitely over. Well, I was also, I was in London last time. You were in London. I just never would have been able to make it. You were making Snow White?

I was making a movie. A movie. Oh, right, we can't talk about it. I don't think I can name it. You were working on Struggle. But our guests say return to the show,

dang ass movie star, Rachel Zagler. Hi, everybody. Now, we are recording this very far in advance of when it will come out because you're a busy movie star. It's true.

There is currently two strikes going on. So I'm a not so busy busy movie star. It's true. There is currently two strikes going on. So I'm a not so busy, busy movie star. Right, so we said, let's get this recorded while we can. Who knows when

the Hollywood factory starts up again. But it means because we're recording this further in advance, we have not really discussed the name of the miniseries. Sure.

Now, Barbra Streisand, the person we're talking about, Angel, only directed three proper movies. We're including this, A Star is Born, as the first in the series because she was kind of the main authorial verse in this film. She had final cut. Producer, I mean, she was everything. It is one of the only cases where final cut was granted to someone who was not the director.

Sure. And we're never... Look, I like Frank Pearson as a director, actually. You like him as a director? I do. I like him as a writer. Obviously, I like him as a writer as well. But he directed a lot of good TV movies in the 90s and 2000s.

But yeah, we're never doing a Frank Pearson series. No. And he infamously, when this movie came out, like a couple weeks before it came out, wrote an article for New York Magazine just trashing the movie and talking about what a nightmare

he had working with her and what a control freak she was. And she kind of was, she went nuclear on him, unsurprisingly. Good for her. But his article

was sort of like, they wouldn't let me direct. And she, her response was like, because you didn't know what the fuck you were doing. You can't direct yourself out of a paper bag.

And even now still, when this movie gets re-released or the rep screening, she is the one who goes and talks about it. And she talks about it very much with the voice

of someone who directed it. Which I think she kind of largely did. Well, it's very telling that she and Kristofferson are still very good friends. She considers him

like one of the best people she's ever shared screen with. And I think in 2019, they like, they sang Evergreen together. Aww. Oh, look, here they are. Still, like, on stage.

Yeah. It's like a real thing that they're still buddy-buddy. And I think that's really telling. Yes. In the grand scheme of something is that if your,

if your co-lead is still, then yeah. Yeah. I have a feeling they probably see eye to eye about the Frank Pearson situation. This was the first John Peters production

so it's her coming in with a lot more power because they have this united front the two of them together. I hear you but what's the name of the miniseries?

So here's the point. I'm going to say I think it can't be called a pod as cast because she didn't technically direct it. It's also a little broad. Right.

So then we're down to three. Okay. You can't do anything with Yentl. Well. What? Well. Of course you can. Can I pitch it?

All right. Go ahead. Podcastle. I like it. I'm all in on that. Honestly, I love that. Yes. I'm totally into that.

Because the other two options are. Podbabs. Podbabs. Podbabs. pod babs pod bra strice cast we used to do barb pod cast that used to be our structure Rachel the first like year that's what we would do we'd be like we'll fit into the name of the person because we what was the Fosse one

Fosse was called pod that jazz cast yeah pod that jazz cast which was really good but we used to be Fosse was called Pod That Jazz Cast yeah Pod That Jazz Cast yeah that's good which was really good but we used to be like Pod Night Shama Cast

yeah the Wachowski Podcast yeah and then we gave up on it the Podchowski Casters yeah then we gave up on that okay so yeah

no our only other options are the Prince of or the the Podcast of Tides yeah something like that or the Podcast Has Two Faces Podcastle's good Podcastle I say do it Prince of... The Podcast of Tides? Yeah, something like that. Or the podcast has two faces. Podcastle's good.

Podcastle. I say do it. No, I'm into it. Here's the only other argument. No. Don't talk me out of it. You talk me into it. The podcast has two friends.

Yeah, but then we're kind of far from whatever we were doing, right? Sure. People call us the two friends, Rachel. Well, yeah, I was going to say. It's a competitive advantage. We're the only friends who host a podcast together.

That's true. And I like the insinuation that we are not part of Rachel. Well, yeah, I was going to say. It's a competitive advantage. We're the only friends who host a podcast together. That's true. And I like the insinuation that we are not part of friendship at all. Well, Ben's a producer. You're a guest. You're a guest. You're both friends. Let's talk about titles. Podcastal.

We're the two friends. We're the two best friends that anyone can have. Exactly. Honestly, Lenny and I are now the two new friends. Okay, so now I'm the one who gets completely egged out. Rachel, you're a dear friend. And thank you for coming on the show. I'm very happy two new friends. Okay, so now I'm the one who gets completely egged up. Rachel, you're a dear friend. And thank you for coming on the show. I'm very happy to be here.

I'm so happy to have you here. Are you comfortable telling me the thing you texted me the other day? What did I text you the other day? About a connection you forgot you had. Oh, yes. To the subject. Oh, yes. And I brought a picture of it.

Did I send it to you? Or did I just text you about it? You texted me about it. You didn't send it to me. So when I was out in Atlanta and I was shooting a movie in 2021. Will not be named. The movie will not be named.

Not that anybody saw it anyways. Solidarity or Strike? Solidarity, baby. Hopefully it's ended by the time this episode comes out. I know, right? Jesus. That would be great. I was shooting a movie in atlanta

and uh i got a box in the mail that was from it was you know it said it was from barbara streisand it just said it it was just like yeah it said like streisand something on it and i was like okay one two three barbara lane yeah exactly and i was like oh this is interesting she had come out with an album. It came with like a little notebook that had her face on it and like the actual album and a hoodie that had like very Andy Warhol-esque pictures of her face. So at this point, opening the box, you just think maybe like I'm on a list of like an influencer PR list. It's probably like whatever label she's with. Sure.

Has a list of people because I would get boxes from, you know, my friend. Is it this kind of cover? It she's with. Sure. Has a list of people. Because I would get boxes from, you know, my friend. Is it this kind of cover? It is that cover. Yeah. Release me too. Yes. And there was this little note card. A little note card, David.

In the notebook. Okay. And it said R dash. And then in like a gold embossed said with compliments from B like in handwriting. Very classy to just do initials. Oh, I and I there was a video that I took of me being like, there's no way there's no way. And then it was like on the Today Show because I tweeted it out. People were like, watch Rachel Zegler lose her goddamn mind over Barbara Johnson but this this is it it says with compliments look at that do you have it like

framed it is in yeah it is framed in my uh my childhood home in Jersey right now because I'm in the middle of moving but uh yeah this is the craziest fucking thing that's ever happened to me genuinely and I've had some crazy shit happen to me. But this is like, I don't even know how she knows who I, genuinely. Right, that's the question. How do you even get on this list, whatever it is? What happened? The note is in and of itself an omission of like, I'm aware. Yeah.

It's her saying, I'm noticing, I'm watching. I will say, the only thing I could think of was that there was like a video of me during the pandemic that went semi-viral. Oh, right, oh right viral before the movie had come out the movie my first movie had never come out it had not come out yet it had gotten pushed because of the pandemic so this really is crazy it was really wild and the only thing i could think of was i had a video of me singing my man from funny girl sure on twitter yeah that didn't do crazy it didn't do my stars born numbers but it was that's the one where you're showing like yelling to the back of the room that's shallow that's shallow okay that's stars That didn't do crazy. It didn't do my A Star Is Born numbers, but it was... Is that the one where you're showing,

like yelling to the back of the room? That's Shallow. That's Shallow. That's A Star Is Born, yeah. That's A Star Is Born. I did like my man sitting in my bathroom wearing like leggings and a t-shirt and I was just singing in my bathroom, which I always was doing,

but that was the only thing... I feel like I saw you do that like a month ago. I'm still doing it. Yeah, yeah. The strike has been long. Yeah. So it's just It was so crazy

And I remember going over to my friend's houses That night and nobody cared as much as I did I was like guys You don't understand It's Barbara She's one of the more famous people of the 20th century She's still with us obviously But it's like as a musical theater kid

Yeah exactly She's the top of the more famous people. But it's like, as a musical theater kid. Yeah, exactly. That's nuts. She's the top of the pyramid. I didn't want to stereotype, right? But I texted you and I was just like, FYI, we're doing Barbra Streisand. I feel like you might be interested. I think I was.

Jumped on it. Right. We were in the room when you texted her and you replied in like five seconds. Yes. Done. That's just how I replied to Griffin. But she's like, she's particularly important for you. Absolutely. And I would say to everyone who grew up the way I did, she was very important.

And she was, I mean, and that's why it was really nice to, I've obviously seen this movie in particular so many times. Interesting. But I hadn't revisited it in a while. And watching it being like i can't believe this woman knows who i am was crazy that is also lenny was not a fan of the movie i will say lenny would bark at the whenever she sang oh okay i was gonna say and i was gonna say plausible yeah maybe not i have a video of it that I will show you guys of him just being absolutely angry

at Barbra Streisand being on screen. No, son of mine. Let me tell you. Maybe he was angry because he wanted Kristofferson back. He was like,

I'm tired. He's a guy's guy. He has curly hair. True. And Barbra has curly hair. True. In this movie, maybe he was just like,

yeah, agitated. Like, who's this? Yeah. You know? This curly hair friend. But also he wants to walk closer down there. Like, who's this? You know? This curly-haired friend. But also, he wants to walk closer. Gosh.

Okay. Podcastle. A miniseries on the films of Barbra Streisand that starts out with this film. I'd say the experience of making this film is the thing that pushes her to say, I need to start directing my own stuff. Which is just not something that someone like her did back then.

That's why she's such a classic blank check candidate, obviously, and just a major auteur, even though she didn't direct a lot of movies. And she's, you know, much like Warren Beatty, she's one of those people where she continues to threaten to make another film. We would love to see it.

The word threaten is funny. Well, Warren finally did make Rules Don't Apply, a film to which no rules applied. Yeah. Barbara, every, like, five years, will be like, I'm actually pretty close to doing this. And it'll be similar where it's like,

I'm doing readings of this. I've been talking to this actor about doing stuff. I actually want to film this in six months. Guys, maybe the note that she sent me was just her saying she's really interested in me being the star of her next film. I mean, do you remember like 10 years ago she got the rights to Gypsy? Yeah.

And was like, I'm going to make it soon. Which she would have to. She would be good. Which I guess Stephen did the same thing with. Yeah. With a certain movie. With a different movie. Yes.

And with a lot of his movies. He sits on stuff. 10 years different movie. Yes. And with a lot of his movies. Yeah. He sits on stuff. Ten years is soon. Yeah. So we have to get the biggest thing out of the way. We have to. Okay. Barbra Streisand has my birthday. We have the same birthday. What? She's my celebrity birthday.

She's kind of the only one. And when is this birthday? April 24th. Oh my god, a Taurus. I am a Taurus. Me too. Oh really? May 3rd, baby. Hello. Hello. Yes, best star sign. Here we go.

Not a lot of celebrities have my birthday. Barbara's really the only big one I have. Jaimon Honsu. That's good. That was good. I just Googled. The wizard himself. Jaimon's the best.

The wizard himself. We love Jaimon. Wait a second. Cedric the entertainer What the fuck You talking shit About your own birthday You got a great birthday

Oh this one's good I didn't know this one Kelly Clarkson Oh my gosh Legend Yeah Waiting for her Broadway debut I can

My birthday is Benicio Del Toro Nice Jeff Daniels Nice Seal Nice Victoria Justice

Okay Who you were once in a movie with. I was. Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. I don't actually know who has the best thing. He was on a no kiss list.

Oh my God. Right? That's the movie you were in with. No, the joke is that I'm not on the list because they're like, who even cares about him? Oh, you don't even make the no kiss list. No, she kisses me and that turns out to be a prank. May 3rd. That is so evil.

It was. May 3rd? Yeah. Who's May 3rd? Looks like you've got Bobby Cannavale. Oh, I'm'm in Frankie Valli She's a Jersey legend Christina Hendricks

That's cool James Brown that's cool Bing Crosby Amy Ryan I love Amy Ryan Tiffany Amber Thiessen I don't like that I didn't come up when I googled Yeah you should be coming up

What the hell is this junk list I need everybody listening to go boost me on famous birthdays Oh but you're number one on the website famous birthdays Am I actually Yes look look at you there you are Oh my god everybody did boost me You're way ahead of You know YouTube star Danny Aaron

This is weird I'm looking this up Ben Producer Ben Shares a birthday with mud Yeah Who knew? When is that birthday?

Crime Crime? Oh my god Yeah what else? The sound of motorcycle tires Shot lifting Yeah Oh my god

Okay No way Oh my god Do y'all know where Barbara Streisand was Sound of motorcycle tires. Shock lifting? Yeah. Oh, my God. Okay. No way. Oh, my God. Do y'all know where Barbara Streisand was born? Brooklyn. Brooklyn, New York. She's a Brooklyn girl.

No way. She went to... She's from East Flatbush. Erasmus High School, where my grandmother went. No way. My grandmother always points out that, of course,

Barbara's much younger than her, which is big growth on my grandmother's part. Nice. Did she not always do that? No. She had false documents

for a very long time. You're lying. And so was she. Her passport was full of lies. Oh my God. The highest level of document. But she now finally admits whenever I say,

well, of course, you and Barbara high schooled again. But I was there years before her. Erasmus, of course, no longer exists. The building still exists. Oh my goodness.

But yeah. She's a Brooklyn my goodness She's a Brooklyn gal She's a Brooklyn gal from East Flatbush And then I think when she was quite young Her parents left Brooklyn And her father died On like a hike He like fell on a hike And hit his head and died

When she was like one year old This is why I stay in New York City. That's why you don't hike. I don't go on no hikes. So she, then they have to move back to Brooklyn. They live in Williamsburg. Hey now. Pretty cool.

Okay, I just really, I'm sorry. I just need to say this. The building that I lived in in Crown Heights, it was the formerly known as the Brooklyn Jewish Hospital. That is the hospital that Barbra Streisand was born. Also the hospital my grandmother and great-aunt were born in. And it was built on your birthday. And it was built on my damn birthday.

My grandmother. Ben's building. Your birthday. My grandma. Rachel's no card. My best friend. Yes. My, yeah, we recorded at least one blank check

At the Brooklyn Jewish Hospital A few remember Remember when your girlfriend would just Sit in the bed and watch us Because there was nowhere to go It was a studio You gotta do what you gotta do So they moved to Williamsburg

They moved back to Williamsburg Apparently she was sort of in Barbara was in poor health When she was a kid Underweight, a lot of ear infections, bronchitis She was sent to a health camp In upstate New York When she was a kid

And then That sounds like the most depressing thing It seems like it was traumatic I'm going to health camp Where they probably just like scrub you I don't know what they did And when she returned from health camp. Where they probably just like scrub you or I don't know what they did. And when she returned from health camp, her mother, Diana, had met her next husband, Louis Kind. Okay.

This is from the dossier. So this is JJ's judgment of her. The financially unsound son of a tailor. Okay. Who veered into real estate, selling used cars, gambling and other vices. So Barbara has a bunch of half siblings, you know, from this second marriage

and doesn't like him. He's bad. He eventually abandons the family when she's 14 years old. Was she the only child of her parents? Yes. Okay. So, you know, just try and think of, like, young Jewish girl in Brooklyn, kind of a shitty life, right? Dreaming of musicals.

Like, it's like, it's very storybook in a way. Like, she loves, like, singing in the rain, right? She just wants to be in movies. Same. Yes. You know, or...

In a way, we are all Barbara. Yeah. Well, Barbara's just got that thing where it's like, I didn't know any of this information, right? But everything you're saying just fits into my conception of her,

where it's just like, she is one of those people you can point to in the history of popular entertainment, where you're just like, inevitable. Yeah. Destined. And yet, you know, she's quote unquote, like, not conventionally attractive, right? Like, you know, like, people make fun of her. She's got a big nose.

But that's so much of it, where it was just like, on paper, you know, this is not the thing that the studios go for. She doesn't fit the particular mode. But just like undeniable, touched with greatness, talent,

and just this sense of like purpose and clarity of what she was working towards. Went to Erasmus High, was in the choral club, never did the school plays. Her justification, quote, why go out for an amateurish

high school production when you can do the real thing? This is what I'm saying. Like, she knew. That's a real quote from her biography. My senior quote. Yeah.

You did high school plays. Except I was in all four years of my high school musicals. Wait, what were your four high school musicals? I was in, I was Belle in Beauty and the Beast. Hell yeah.

I was Ariel in The Little Mermaid. Jesus. I was Dorothy Brock in 42nd Street. Oh, that's a show. And then I was Fiona in Shrek theermaid I was Dorothy Brock in 42nd Street and then I was Fiona in Shrek the Musical famously that made it onto Graham Norton God I was so embarrassed

no that's what you mean that's what Graham Norton was there for they just showed the picture of me with the big fucking green nose on in front of Kenneth Branagh no Rachel I felt a little great you've never been on the show the pointing is very good

there's some like British esteemed legend of theater Kenneth fucking Branagh that's pretty cool and then Vicky McClure who's like I don't know how to say that she's like the equivalent of something in the states besides like Ellen Pompeo because she's like big equivalent of something in the States besides like Ellen Pompeo. Because she's like,

big TV star. She's on every TV show. Line of duty. She's on that line of duty. She always plays like a cop or a doctor or a doctor cop. You're nicked, mate. Yeah.

You're nicked. And I'm going to take out your appendix. Officer doctor. Doc cop, babes. Yeah. That's a DJ Catrona idea. I've got a drinking problem.

No one can steal that. Cop babes. DJ Catrona wants doc cop to be his thing. That's a DJ Catrona idea. I've got a drinking problem. No one can steal that. Cop babes? DJ Catrona wants Doc Cop to be his thing. That seems like, yeah, slam dunk. Networks are

desperate right now. Come on. Syndication, baby. Here we come. Because we always joke about like unknown British TV shows where it's like a

blank who moonlights as a detective on the side. To make it a cop who moonlights as a doctor or vice versa is really funny. I love that.

Now, if somebody was moonlighting as something and a star is born in the 70s, who would be doing what? Someone's moonlighting. Okay, so... Is Esther moonlighting as,

you know, like... What, a detective? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe she's actually just trying to get to the bottom of how does Chris Christopherson get all this coke? I think Chris Christopherson... Right. How do to get To the bottom of how does Chris Christopherson Get all this coke

How do you pay for this house man Chris Christopherson is moonlighting as the Lorax I think Save the trees I speak for the truffler trees Okay look I just need to tell you that Get out of my fucking face Onceler

Who is the Onceler of A Star is Born? It's the mean agent. Paul Mazurski. Yeah, Paul Mazurski. David? Yep. The economy. No!

I know, that's... It's actually more robust than the press would have you think. But you know what? What? It's hard talking about the economy in this economy. It ain't cheap talking about the economy. Hard doing an ad read in this economy? In this economy. It ain't cheap talking about the economy. Or doing an ad read in this economy?

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Joint custody. Okay. Okay, buddy. Okay, so when Barbara's a teen, she goes on Broadway, she sees the Diary of Anne Frank. Yes. This is when she's like, I am going to be an actress. This is a quote from her.

It was a thrilling experience sitting in the last row of the balcony. The ticket was $2.85. $2.85. God. You couldn't sit very close because when you sit, but you know, you couldn't afford it.

But when you sit far away from the whole stage, you know, you don't see the reality of the actor's pores. You don't see the makeup. You get swept along with the illusion.

Her mother decides that this idea is terrible. She'll be humiliated and it'll be a total fiasco. But Barbara starts working at a Chinese restaurant, starts saving up money, starts going to the Cherry Lane Theater, meets Anita Miller and Alan Miller,

who worked under Lee Strasberg, starts auditioning for stuff, moves into their house when she's 16 years old. No way. This is kind of cool. And she's like a cool beatnik. This is like late 50s, I imagine, right? Mm-hmm.

And does a little play in 1958 called Seawood opposite Joan Rivers. Wow. No one goes to see it. And then does a couple other shows and decides to do a talent show at a club called The Lion. Okay.

And she writes her name on the edition sheet as B-A-R-B-R-A, because there were too many Barbaras. Of course, Barbara Streisand spells her name wrong. Barbara. She dropped the A. Right. Dropped the middle A. Yeah, it's cleaner.

As legend has it, she blows the competition out of the water, kicks off her career as a nightclub singer, and then she's discovered by Peter Daniels, her first sort of arranger. And she does an 11-week engagement at the Bon Soir. I don't know what that is.

Did a double bill with Phyllis Diller, and then does a tour and does an appearance on The Tonight Show with Jack Parr. Streisand. This is like, kind of like...

Must have been an unbelievable evening of entertainment. In the young Streisand, too. Yeah, and Phyllis Diller was probably very young at that point, like 90, 95. It was early in her career. What's the show she meets Ellie Gould on? I Can Get It For You Wholesale. Okay, right.

The Arthur Lawrencez directed play. Yes. The greatest Jewish couple of all time. Like the true Jewish relationship goals. This could be us, but you're playing. Yes. Yeah. You've seen the photo of them in the pool, right?

Yeah. It's just the greatest picture anyone's ever taken. Yeah. Then, I mean, they did it for Barbie promo. Yeah. They recreated that without saying they were recreating taken. Yeah, then, I mean, they did it for Barbie promo. Yeah. They recreated that without saying they were recreating that.

Yeah. But those who know, know. Yeah. It's the hottest photo of Elliot Gould ever taken. Number two is obviously Elliot Gould and Grover on the cover of TV Cut.

Exactly. Yes. They know exactly what you're talking about. In 1963, she releases an album called The Barbra Streisand Album. Uh-huh.

It is a huge hit. Uh, and then she becomes pretty much the most successful female singer in, like, in America until, like, Mariah Carey, basically. Uh-huh. Right? You know, it's like, that's it. Yeah. Really, like, all of her early fame, obviously, is in, is in singing, but she desperately wants to act more and all that. And she gets Funny Girl, you know, when is that?

Like 60... 68 is when it's released. 68 is the movie. The movie, yeah. Right. The show is 64. Yeah, I was going to say, she did it earlier. How long did she do the show for?

Hmm? How long was she in the show on Broadway? At least a year, probably. Back then, you had to do a year. Yeah. Now you do a year. Yeah. Now you do six months. I don't know about you guys. I liked Funny Girl.

I thought it was good. What, like the movie? Yeah. Ben, over the course of doing this podcast, has secretly been growing a huge Burbastrae Sand fandom. I love that. He watched What's Up, Doc? Oh, great movie.

Several years ago, and that was the movie where he went i believe your letterbox review was oh shit maybe old movies are good that's true i love that and then quietly since then ben's just been filling in the strice and filmography and getting babs pill i'm starting to get it i love funny girl too yeah i got funny girl as a Christmas present when I was a kid. The movie or the record? No, I got the DVD with Omar Sharif and I was just I was shocked at how long

that is a long movie and it makes sense that they cut so much of it for the stage. Like my man is not in the stage show, which is a sin by the way. She would sometimes sing at the end of the night which i think which leah michelle just did the other that's all and uh she looks like she did

it for about a year year and a half then she reprised the role on the west end uh in 1966 but then she got pregnant and had to drop out. Some other people who played that role, though, Lainey Kazan, Gene Stapleton, Kay Medford. So, you know, so that's like, you know, that's the big,

and that show is like, we could do a whole fucking thing on that show. Like, Bob Fosse was involved briefly. Sidney Lumet was involved. Wow. Like, Carol Burnett. Like, all kinds of crazy things happened with that show.

But obviously, that's what, she wins the Tony, right? Yes. And she wins the Oscar. like Carol Burnett like all kinds of crazy things happened with that show but obviously that's what she wins the Tony right? Yes and she wins the Oscar No she loses the Tony

I knew this was Oh Yes I have to look this up Alright Sorry No she She shared the Oscar

didn't she? She did With Catherine Hepburn For Line and Winter? For Line and Winter But Hepburn doesn't show up so she just accepts it. She accepts it. But you know she's bad.

Oh, yeah. You know she's fucking bad. Well, they also only gave her the bottom half. Oh, my gosh. That's not true. She got her own statue. She lost to Carol Channing for Hello, Dolly. Right. And then she fucking snipes Channing later. Yes. That's just a nice looking movie you got there.

Be a shame if someone else played the part. Oh, my God. The Julie Andrews later. Yes. Yes. That's just a nice looking movie you got there. Be a shame if someone else played the part. Oh my God. The Julie Andrews effect. Yep. Yes. A hundred percent. But yeah,

I guess, I mean, it's also like that thing like the Tonys, they do it just like the Oscars do it where they're like, well,

you're young, you'll be back. Like, we got to give it to Carol Channing. Versus Funny Girl, she's in. She's never really,

you know, given another shot at a Tony. Funny Girl's the limited pantheon of acting Oscars for first performance ever. And it happens

so much more rarely with the lead categories. The couple of times it's happened, it's more often supporting. Yes. For lead,

it's like her and Marlee Matlin are maybe the only. I don't know. I don't know. I can't. I can't summon that for you right now. OK, but the point is she wins an Oscar for her first movie ever I don't know. I don't know. I can't sum that up for you right now. Okay, but the point is

she wins an Oscar for her first movie ever. Crazy. Yes, they do the movie, she wins the Oscar. She does Ty, which is bizarre. Immediately a huge star.

Yes. Her star has gotten even bigger. So then she does Hello, Dolly. Yeah. Which is kind of an infamous flop. Kind of a flop.

What do you think? Have you seen Hello, Dolly? Which having revisited... Yeah, I've seen Hello, Dolly. Having revisited it, I don't really understand why it was such, I don't know.

I guess. It's a little like slow and kind of bloated. For sure, but we could make that argument for so many movie musicals of that era. I find it very charming.

I think it's super charming as well. It's just, it's lush. It's literally the music man. It's got the same charm as the music man and the same color palette and everything like that

I imagine that they thought it was a surefire hit on their hands I think it's just that that kind of movie was going out of style at that time

that's what I was gonna say it's like the shift from 68 to 69 does Dolly come out 69 or 70 Dolly is 69 yeah it's just already

the like wheels were falling off the old Hollywood musical. Yeah. Such a shame. She makes a movie called On a Clear Day You Can See Forever

which I've never seen. A Chantilly Manali movie. Which is another adaptation of a musical. On set she has an affair with Pierre Trudeau the Prime Minister of Canada. Okay.

Which is a big scandal. Then she makes The Ow and the pussycat. Split up at that point? When did she split up with Gould? Was it a two-way affair? They divorced in 1971. Okay. So, I don't know.

It's around there. And she has a child at this point. Yes. Yes. Because she gets pregnant during the West End Run. During the West End Run, a funny girl. And that is... Is that her only kid?

How many kids does she have? I think, am I wrong? I think that's her only kid. Many dogs. Many cloned dogs. But yeah. Many, many cloned dogs. Yes.

God, she has dated some incredible people. Andre Agassi. Really? Clint Eastwood. I mean, that's... James Newton Howard. Ooh.

That's such a list. Peter Jennings. Yeah. Liam Neeson. Liam Neeson. Liam Neeson. Robocop. Peter Weller. Oh, oh, oh.

Yeah. I thought they were listing Robocop as a character. She did Peter Weller? Yeah. That's wild. All right. She's in The Owl and the Pussycat, the movie with George Segal. Yeah.

That movie's pretty fun. Yeah. That movie was a hit. Yeah. She's in What's Up, Doc? What's Up, Doc? One of the best movies ever made. Huge, great movie. Funny. She's so funny.

But this is what's interesting is like after Hello Dolly, right? She does, and on A Clear Day You Can See Forever, which also did not have as big a response. She just kind of goes like, I guess I need to pivot. Right? Like I was a movie musical star

yeah but if that's going out of fashion i'm going into comedies and dramas maybe i still have my place to sing but like i'll shift have any of you seen up the sandbox it is one of the greatest posters look at this weird poster so this she makes in 1972 you's tied to a giant baby bottle yeah she's tied to a giant baby bottle it's about a mom who's bored in New York City and starts having crazy fantasies such as Fidel Castro

sweeping her off her feet or like you know blowing up the Statue of Liberty shit like that never seen it, it's an Irving Kirshner movie, but what's important about it is it's the first movie produced by First Artists, which is going to produce

A Star is Born as well, which is this sort of like, these actors would take lesser fees who were involved with it to get more creative control. Paul Newman and Steve McQueen and Dustin Hoff and other actors at the time are using first artists as well. I just think what's interesting about her is that there are many interesting things about her.

But a thing I think is interesting about her is that she's sort of a young star in the old Hollywood mold. Hitting right as the old Hollywood studio system is breaking down and the old genres are breaking down, and she, like, adapts immediately. Like, she just, like, jumps over to the 70s and is totally carried over as, like, new Hollywood star. She's going to work with the stars of the moment. She's not trying to, like, hold on to the traditions of the things she grew up with, you know?

That's true. She just... She evolves as she needs to. She evolves, and it's like, I'm now going to represent the modern woman. But she still does, like, big, you know,'s true she just she evolves she evolves and it's like I'm now going to represent the modern woman but she still does like big you know epic movies the way we were obviously is her next

giant hit with Redford sort of a I don't know like a TV classic when I was a kid I've never seen it always on yeah I mean it's kind of dumb but it kind of I'm going to use this series to fill in some Barbara gaps. Then she did a couple of movies that don't really work.

Something called For Pete's Sake, which is sort of a What's Up Doc type thing, like a comedy. That's how she meets John Peters, because she wanted a specific hairstyle for the movie. And he is a hairdresser. He was, of course, notoriously. Her hairdresser. And then she does Funny Lady. Right. The sequel to Funny Girl that is less good.

The long-awaited sequel to Funny Girl. Yes. And John Peters says to her, and this is from her biography, you need to do hotter and sexier and younger roles because you have a great ass. Yes. And she takes this to heart and makes a star as born. Right. Aren't they dating at this point?

I don't know. The lines are a little blurry on their relationship and when they were officially dating and when they weren't because I think oftentimes there were other people. And he was married to Leslie Ann Warren.

Yes. John Peters is one of the most like canonically insane people to ever work in Hollywood. He's amazing. He's terrible. You can read all about him. Look, I am such a fiend for his interviews.

He's one of the most fascinating interview subjects, the way he speaks. You just go like, and you read stories about him, the way people talk about the way he behaved and talk. And you go like, I cannot imagine this existing in the real world. And Bradley Cooper's performance in La Grish Pizza,

which I wax poetic about many times on this podcast, is astounding because you're just like within 10 minutes this guy has actually conjured up what it must have felt like to talk to this guy

yes in his peak yeah have you interacted with john peters no i just he's out there in the wilderness right from the from what you're talking about

with the interviews and everything that when bradley came on screen in licorice pizza i knew exactly what was about to happen. It's astonishing. I rewatched all of his scenes. It was so wonderful. He's so good in that

movie. Rudely ignored by the Oscars. He should have won. But yes, he still today in modern interviews will basically phrase things the exact same way. And it's like a bragging point. He'll say like, I was the first person to point the

barber and go, you got a great ass. You need to be hot in movies now. You're like, oh, thank you. No. Thanks. Let's get you back to bed. It's pretty crass, but he did to some degree, I think, help transition a new era of her career in her

deciding to take ownership of things, right? To be fair, that advice from the right person. Yes. Is life changing. Absolutely. Out of context, it sounds like we should all embrace our hotness. But yes,

we should all embrace our great asses. And I think so much of her persona. I mean, this is all the weird, the kind of like the ego of Barbra Streisand. Right. What is so fascinating about her as a movie star is like her ego and her insecurity at the same time. That is constantly balancing itself out.

And all this sort of legend about how controlling she is and how like protective she is of her image. But also her things are all about her sort of like not feeling good enough or whatever. And most of her movies up until Star is Born are playing on the like, I don't know, I'm just some goofy girl from Brooklyn. Yeah. You know, I'm trying to make people give me respect to like one degree or another. And Star is Born is obviously like it starts with that point. But so much of it is about her cocooning out of that. Right.

Into fully owning the kind of stardom that she obviously had. But was always in conversation with this sort of sheepish, well, I don't look like the other girls, I'm too loud, I'm too this. I'm an ugly duckling type, but obviously great, beautiful talent within all of that. It was oddly the reality for every

woman that ended up playing that part in the version. Janet Gaynor, Judy Garland, they called Judy Garland a hunchback, tried to change her face. They actually put that in the movie. Janet Gaynor, Judy Garland. They called Judy Garland a hunchback, tried to change her face. They actually put that in the movie. It's wild that all four movies star people who were already megastars at that point

and yet needed some transition, transformation into the next stage of their career. Like, it was all of them. It's not like they had hit the end. No. But all of them were like, I need to find the next thing. I need to fully

enter a new phase. And that's why the Judy Garland one is so particularly heartbreaking because she should have won for it. And she didn't get to ride out the success. Rachel, you watched all the stars are born. Let's talk about it now. Let's talk about a star is born. We're at a star is born. The first two before we did our

Bradley Cooper episode years ago. Right. And then I'd never seen this one. You'd never seen this one. I'd never seen this one, watched this one. It's so funny because so much of Bradley's is taken from this one. It is a direct comic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It is wild. I'm astonished people don't talk about it more. There are so many things. Obviously, not just the first two are in Hollywood. They are movie stars. It's for winning an Oscar, whatever. just the first two are in hollywood they are movie stars it's for winning an oscar whatever but like the characterization of jackson main is so similar to this guy the the transmuting it into the music world yeah but even like it has the tracing of the nose it basically has the i just

want to take another look at you right with him saying That's in all of them. Yeah. The way it manifests in this is so many elements. You just feel like Bradley Cooper watched this movie and was like, someone could make this like 20% better. 20%. Exactly. Because it's just,

it gives her a bit more autonomy. Yeah. And a lot of things are a bit more earned than in the 70s one. I feel. This movie is shaggy. Yeah. To the extreme. I know its reputation is

really crappy and I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. Maybe just because I went in with such guarded expectations. This movie feels like someone like people were high when they made this and edited this.

This is a movie that was executive produced by cocaine. movie feels like someone like people were high when they made this and they 100% were. This is a movie that was executive produced by cocaine. Yeah. But then there were some co-exec producers from like grass and pills and acid and whatever. You know, everything. Gary Busey. There's that opening credit that says a drugs production.

In association with Warner Brothers. In association with boo Brothers in association with booze yeah because like the Cooper movie obviously

it's very like booze soaked but in this very authentic way where you're like you're like with a guy who's like you know got five minutes left right

he's like really like you know in it it's obviously the thing Bradley Cooper's been very open about his struggles with sobriety and his battle to get there and everything that's the big value that movie has it's like it's being made by someone who's playing the character who's been

through hell yeah and is really working through his experience the character is given a lot more of yes an effort where he's actually trying to get better yeah because that character is always doomed but he's the only one who feels like a real guy in a way i like all the guys and all the stars i feel like the judy garland one he's really he's amazing he goes to a you know he goes to a facility it's like with with this one chris christopherson's just kind of like hey and then we'll get married and we'll disappear into the desert and i'll forget about my drug problem let's build a house let's build a house right here. Let's build a house right here. And also we're going to have sex right here in the desert. I don't know what shirts are.

I'm allergic to them. They just fly right off me. Kind of incredible. He's amazing. He is. He's so good. I don't know if it's a good performance. It's very natural.

It's like an incredible energy performance. The characterization is. I love him. I love him too. I'm pretty much always in the bag for him. If he shows up in any fucking thing, I'm like, great. The first note I took when I was watching it was Chris Christopherson is daddying all over the place.

Yes. That's the note I took. Exactly. It's also so funny because like, I mean, Have you seen Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore? Yes. Like he's amazing in that. Like he's such a natural actor.

That's what it is. Yeah. He can play like one of three types, but like he's really good at it. Yeah. No, I agree. He can play like one of three types, but like he's really good at it. Yeah. No, I agree. He can play Blade's assistant. Yes.

I found this out just like reading a little bit of his history. I had no idea. Yeah. Here's some steaks. Hilarious. Sorry. You were saying about Chris.

No, I think, you know, and correct me if I'm wrong in the dossier, but my understanding of the cultural reputation of this movie was always like, you know and correct me if I'm wrong in the dossier but my understanding of the cultural reputation of this movie was always like you know Star is Born

they've remade the movie the second one was even better right Barbara at the time her star is huge she's sort of like in the press

you know it feels like they make a Star is Born every 20 years it's one of those stories that needs to get told every 20 years as the industry changes

as the reference points change whatever we're overdue she decides this is her big passion project she's teamed up stories that needs to get told every 20 years as the industry changes, as the reference points change, whatever. We're overdue. She decides this is her big passion project. She's teamed up with John Peters now. They're going to produce this thing and handpick the writer and the director and everything. And they go through these different versions of the leading men that we'll talk about.

And they land on Kristofferson. And people are like, why the fuck are you casting Kris Kristofferson, the singer, to be... That's like a dramatic part. That guy can't carry this weight. And the movie comes out and he's the thing that people were the most positive about.

I mean, obviously, the soundtrack's humongous, right? And the film's a really big hit. It's the second biggest movie of the year. Yeah, but you read the reviews and people are like, Christopherson's the good thing. Because he's new. I mean,bara was sort of he's a shock he's exactly you're like dang there's a lot more here than i i would have guessed yeah um but the characterization is very thin it does not go deeper and the character

comes oh for both absolutely the character comes off as very dumb like whereas as you said it's like really trying and you believe like this guy has like he had something yeah he had something he has baggage he's got a past he's got a reason for filling the way

he's got Sam Elliot it's like there's just a lot more where I you know this movie lacks a Sam Elliot that's the thing

when I was first watching it I really thought they were amping up Gary Busey to be the Sam Elliot type character and it just didn't happen no

and it kind of left something to be desired look Elliott type character and it just didn't happen. No. And it kind of left something to be desired. Look, he's in the air. He's helping to contribute to the atmosphere of the film. Which I have to say, the calmest I've ever seen Gary Busey in a movie. He was calmer back then. He's oddly shocking. It's wild. I think I wrote... He's like a steady presence. I said,

Gary Busey is to A Star is Born what Joe Pesci was to The Irishman. Unhinged playing hinged. Yeah. Yeah. Great. And that's my analogy for the whole film. He's still done. I think he's still this sort of like interesting up and coming actor.

Like he'd been in Thunderball and Lightfoot. He gets the Oscar nomination like a couple of years after this. Right. Like Buddy Holly is after this. And it's like, yeah. Oh, well, look out. Very Busey. He Buddy Holly is after this. And it's like, yeah, oh, well, look out.

Very Busey. He was supposed to do Nashville. Okay, sure. Was he supposed to be the Keith Carradine? I think he was.

Wasn't he supposed to do that? Because he writes a couple of the songs that end up in the film. Oh. Not I'm Easy

because Carradine obviously wrote that. But there are one or two songs since you've gone, which is the song The Trio Sings is written by Gary Busey

because he was in the rehearsal process for that. That's crazy. But yeah, he was in this sort of like the guy's a good musician. He's a good songwriter.

I had no idea. He's sort of like he's tall and he's interesting looking. Like, you know, he's a presence. But like put in both worlds and then Buddy Holly

is the one where it's like, well, now we've totally crystallized lightning in a bottle. This guy's... I've seen that movie. You've never seen it, right? No, no, we should watch it. Yeah, let's just watch it.

Yeah, let's have a friend date and watch it. Okay, so... All right, so, no, Stars Born. Okay, so this is the 1937 Stars Born with Janet Gaynor, which is good. David O. Sells' production. There's the 54 one with Garland, which is amazing. Amazing. as you say so you're just

sort of like oh god it's so like mixed up with reality too like you know the whole time you cannot stop thinking i mean i couldn't stop thinking knowing everything that i know about judy garland it's so heartbreaking to watch and then to just think like because i think what the reality of that was everybody thought she was going to win yes there were cameras in her hospital room after she gave birth is that not a true story yes no i thought it is yes exactly yeah and then she lost to grace kelly for doing something so similar like grace kelly just did something a little bit different she did a d glam yeah it's one of those like truly tragic like it feels like a moment out of a Star is Born. Yeah. Where it's like she's there in a hospital room. Yeah, with her freshly born child.

Right, holding a baby, getting ready to grab an Oscar, you know. And she loses. Yeah, and then there's just that moment where it's like the camera crew all just like disassembling and just being like, well, I'll smell you later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're just immediately trashed, you know. Congrats on the child. Like the highest high, the lowest low. They immediately just make you feel like

we have no interest in you anymore well yeah and I remember I think it was George Cukor talked about it where he said that

you know they were doing that he was directing her in this scene where she talks about how she she can't help but love her husband

and wants to support him through it and it's and she feels like she's failed him too and it was just so true to her life at that point in time

it's devastating to watch because she was having such a problem and struggling with her addiction. It's an incredible performance. It's why she's so good in it. Do you feel part of the controversy with the missing footage on that movie? Oh, my God. I love the version of it with just the stills and the sound.

Yes. Have you watched it like that? Yes. That's how I had seen it. And there was like, because it was one of those movies where there was a roadshow cut and then they cut it down like 40 minutes. Yeah. And then Warner Brothers had been trying to restore it forever

and they got close, but they were still a little bit missing. Yeah. So in its current incarnation, you watch it with like still photos over audio. Yeah.

A couple parts. It's kind of amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And then it turns out, I'm going to get the specifics of this wrong, but there was like a guy

who's like a kind of archivist, film preservationist who like took on like finding elements of films that the studios had abandoned and holding onto them himself.

Yeah. And there was some movie, maybe it was Streetcar Named Desire, A Road Without a Cause. Some other film that Warner Brothers had where he gave them

the elements to help their restoration and they didn't credit him properly. And he's the one who has the missing footage from Star is Born. And he basically refuses to give it to them. Out of spite. Until Warner Brothers, like,

kind of steal it. Kind of good for him. No, let's go get it. Isn't that wild? Well, yeah. Maybe he'll show it to us. He'll show it to us. Yeah, we just gave him credit. Nicely. Yeah. We think you're great. We love you. Whatever your name is we'll start crediting you in every episode yeah yeah all right so john gregory

dunn and joan didion are driving down the road i have to i'm so sorry i have to say this is how i found out joan didion wrote scripts had no idea this is she had her period classic like you're you're a celebrated you know writer raconteur move to hollywood baby writer some scripts yeah right um and Like, you're a celebrated writer-reconteur, moved to Hollywood, baby,

writing some scripts. Is this her Barton thing? Yeah. Right. And she said, sorry, John Gregory Dunn, who's no longer with us, says, well, neither of them are with us anymore,

who says, I can pinpoint the exact moment it was conceived. It was at one o'clock in the afternoon, July 1973. I turned to my wife while passing the Aloha Tower in downtown Honolulu on our way to the airport

and I said 16 words I would later regret. James Taylor and Carly Simon in a rock and roll version of A Star is Born. I mean, it's a good pitch. Sounds pretty good. It's a good pitch. They just were sort of like, neither of them had seen the original two movies. But they were just like a rock and roll

version of that. Just cultural osmosis. Even though they don't know what that is. Exactly. They write a script. They take it to Warner's. They think maybe Warren Beatty or Mike Nichols can direct this. Warner's wants Peter Bogdanovich, who is very hot stuff. Mark Rydell is eventually hired.

Sure. Carly Simon and James Taylor passed. Interesting. Mike and Bianca Jagger passed. Sonny and Cher passed. So they went to real couples. Liza Minnelli, Diana Ross, Elvis Presley, we'll talk about in a second, obviously,

but he was a big, you know. Christopherson. Wait, I'm sorry, are you telling me I could have had a Sonny and Cher? Kind of fun to think about. It would have been unbelievable. Cher would have been amazing. Holy shit. Now, I don't know how Sonny would have been. No clue. Hey, hey, hey.

Sonny would have been fine. You think he would have sold the... Look closely now. Mick and Bianca Jagger is kind of fun to think about. Yeah. It is. But I don't know if Bianca can, like, shoulder, you know, the star weight. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Rydell gets fired. Jerry Schatzberg comes on board. Then it makes it to Streisand. Peters claims, I discovered this project. I found it for Barbara. I convinced her to do it. The character in my movie is a guy who's fighting all the time and hitting all the time and he can't relate.

It's a macho guy, which is very much like me. He's talking about, you know, he's crazy. He is. I mean, look, I think there's a lot of Peters. Dreysand takes it over with Peters. They bring it to first artist, and now it's like their thing.

Peters loves to take credit for every single element of every movie that he had any involvement with. But this is the one where I'm like, he's a pretty strong authorial voice

in this thing. Yeah. You know? Like, you feel a lot of Peters in this. For better and for thing. You know? Like, you feel a lot of Peters in this. For better and for worse. You know, Joan and John leave at this point. You know, they're off.

Peter and Streisand take over. Peters and Streisand take over. And they're basically like, yes, this will be our first creative project, you know, where we're in charge. She says... And I'm going to be sexy now. Right. Yeah. But also, as Barbara says, first creative project you know where we're in charge she says and I'm going to be sexy now right but also as Barbara says like there's a

change of women's roles every 20 years I want to make this character personal I think this film will have a lot to say about the changing roles of men and women women are no longer afraid to confront male society in the wedding scene I'll be wearing a man's suit I think that says a lot you know

that's why there should be a 90 star is born there should I know it should be canonically in every 20 years should be and who would have done it though do you have I Whitney this is the question the question is did bodyguard slide in yeah did it make because it like

probably should have been Costner Mariah Carey could have done it though Costner and Whitney would have been perfect But that's what glitter is Glitter literally is It literally is And I have to say I really like glitter

Can you come back on the Patreon and we'll do Hey Vondie Curtis Hall is a good director Vondie Curtis Hall and I have worked together Reallyondie Curtis Hall is a good director Vondie Curtis Hall and I have worked together really really yeah we did like readings of the

Notebook musical together wow yeah and it was so crazy was he acting in it or directing he was acting in it so he's directed

playing the Garner part playing the yeah he's an amazing he's an amazing actor he is I love him as an actor but he directed Gridlocked

which I've always maintained is a really good movie the Tupac Tim Roth movie I think you mean Glitter he he directed Gridlocked, which I've always maintained is a really good movie. The Tupac, Tim Roth movie. I think you mean Glitter. He also directed Glitter. Glitter. Which I have never seen. No!

Stop. So I would happily check out Glitter. Glitter? But when I tell you that Glitter is quite literally Mariah Carey as Star is Born, in every sense of the word,

it is. I do think, like, Costner and Houston are who it probably should have been if we're looking at cultural power of the word it is. I do think like Costner and Houston are who it probably should have been if we're looking at cultural power of the 90s. And when they passed, it would have been Mariah Carey.

Well, that's, I think there's some other movies in the 90s and early 2000s like Glitter that are like someone being like, can I kind of make my Star is Born without doing Star is Born? Yeah.

They avoided the real thing. Which I get. Yes. Because as somebody who's done the remake, prequel, sequel train, it's a lot of fucking pressure and people are really mean. There's a lot on your shoulders. People are mean.

Yeah. People have a certain idea of how things are supposed to go. Unfortunately, Glitter came out like right after 9-11 and there was nothing else for anybody to make fun of, so they just made fun of Glitter.

Glitter was a moment of national healing for the country. They really were. But I have to say, havingited glitter which this isn't this podcast is not about maybe we're gonna maybe it should be episode eventually yeah i have to say it's she has a very strong performance in it and i would have loved to stars born with mariah carey she's a good actor she really is great like a batman movie she's great in a precious i'm trying to think she's incredible impression i'm trying to think what else she's even in like a Batman movie She's great in Precious She's incredible in Precious I'm trying to think what else she's even in

Wait it wasn't a cameo she had in Precious No she's got a real ass role She had a cameo in another Oscar movie though Wasn't it like What was her cameo She's in The Butler Maybe it was The Butler Cause she works with Lee Daniels

You guys had a harmonic we did there's a you're right she's in pop star not never stop never stopping I mean yeah should have won Oscars anytime yeah she parodies herself she's funny she's I she's good I like her Bonnie Curtis Hall's other movies that movie waist deep

with Tyrese and Megan Good and I like Tyrese and Megan Good I've never seen it more like Meganrese and Megan Good. I've never seen it. More like Megan Great. Truly. Megan Best. Hey, you're right. And I just rewatched all the Saw movies and Megan Good is in five? Really? Yeah. She's in one of them.

David. Yes. I co-host a podcast. I don't know if you are aware of it. You actually, you are the other host on. Yeah, don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is the name aware of this. Blank Check, Griffin and David. You actually, you are the other host on. Yeah, don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is the name of the show is Blank Check. People think it must be real cushy being a podcast host.

Sure. Get to watch movies and talk about them. Oh, what a nice existence you got. But? They're not considering how much I worry. About? Everything. Well, you do.

Are my takes hot enough? Are they too hot? Uh-huh. Am I entering the discourse? Am I leaving out? I forget to mention some important piece of context. And? Did I not consider that one movie I dislike was another person's favorite movie and that was rude

of them to hear me say that. And? One thing I never have to worry about when I host is whether my guests will find their sleeping accommodations up to scratch. Oh, interesting. Why? Well, I'm realizing now that this copy is about hosting people at your home. Uh-huh. Like hosting guests.

Something you never do. Right. And I just read this as if they were obviously asking me to talk about being a host of a podcast. I'm just realizing this in real time and we're not taking this over. This is the ad. 100%. You're talking about Burrow's new shift sleeper sofa.

Exactly. It's one of those things everyone should have in their home. It's a comfortable everyday sofa that easily converts into a queen-size sleep surface. That's a nice surface. Genuine queen size. Not a full, full queen queen size sleep surface that sleeps two people very comfortably.

I've got a burrow. Oh, you do? I do. I don't have the sleeper sofa, although I am very intrigued. I do have the nomad sofa plus the sleep kit, which is another sleep thing that they offer, which is really good. The best thing about burrow, I live in New York City.

It's hard to get couches through doors and upstairs and so on and so good. The best thing about Borough, I live in New York City. It's hard to get couches through doors and upstairs and so on and so forth. The Borough breaks down very easily and then you assemble it in your house. It's easy to get in. It's easy to get out. I had a Borough at my old apartment. I miss it, actually. Go get it. Well, maybe.

But I'll tell you, here's another thing I like. I know this isn't the one they specifically bought a couple garbage bags to talk about. You could bring it over one piece at a time. You could. It's easy to assemble. It's easy to disassemble. I recently moved and I said to the movers, I said, this couch comes apart. He's like, oh, believe me, I'm very

familiar with burrows. They are great for moving. You want movers to like you? Yes. Buy some burrows. Here's the other thing. You hear that you go, oh, this is going to look like it's made out of Playmobil or something right oh it must be junky it must be junky

no you could fool anyone you could anyone but a mover the thing I was gonna say my burrow I had in my old apartment a feature I really like

even though they didn't put this in the copy they put like a charging cable yeah you know what I'm saying there's like USB ports in between the cushions yeah

it's pretty clever so that you can plug your couch into the wall they got a lot of stuff like that. And you can charge devices while sitting on the couch without having to reach over to the outlet. You know what I'm saying, Ben? They're all about the thoughtful details.

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It's got a painless online shopping experience, free shipping to your door, and of course, easy to set up, as we said, assembled without tools in boxes you can move yourself. Now, I want to restate, I myself, as a podcast host, I'm constantly uncomfortable, both physically and mentally. Yeah. But this ad is about making sure

you are creating comfortable circumstances for guests who may stay with you. Sure. Right. That's what they meant. Not podcast guests. No. But you do have a lot of anxieties about your hosting. I do. I don't do it. That's why. Check out Burrow's new shift sleeper. I meant home hosting, not the podcast hosting. It's just clarified.

Check out Burrow's new shift sleeper sofa and all their incredible furniture at burrow.com slash check and get 15% off your Burrow order when you do. That's burrow.com slash check for 15% off your Burrow purchase. Burrow.com slash check. I obviously do podcast hosting, even though I do have worries about it. Okay there, buddy. Okay, so a star is born.

Star is born. No, it's totally What about like an indie 90s star like Bjork You know Courtney Love Do Bjork, Lars von Trier Skarsgård Yeah

I'm too fucked up I can't get these pants on I have to be bottomless For another scene fucked up. I can't get these pants on. I have to be bottomless for another scene. But the whole thing with this movie is Frank Pearson's one of the best screenwriters in Hollywood. They're struggling to find

a director. Sidney Pollack was almost going to do it. They'd obviously worked together on The Way We Were. And they go to Frank Pearson and they're like, can we get you to do a rewrite on this? And Pearson so badly wants to kickstart his directing career that he's like, I will rewrite the script

if you let me direct. He was the 14th rewriter. Yes. So they brought in a ton of other writers. And they were like, just bring it home, Frank. They're so desperate that they agree to give him the director chair. Did you also know that she wanted Robert Altman to direct at one point? Would have been wild. He was making Nationals, a very different movie.

She wanted Christofferson. Barbara wanted Christofferson for the lead role. John Peters wanted Mick Jagger probably because he thinks Mick Jagger is cool. So Alice Doesn't Live Here has already happened at this point no no this is this his first movie this is like because alice is 74 and oh no wait maybe it is right yeah so yeah yeah so he's done alice he's done like pat garrett and okay he's done that as well okay yeah so he's acted yeah um and obviously they got their big reaches to elvis which is such a cool idea i mean mean, it just wouldn't. Did you know this? Elvis Presley.

Well, I assumed. Not Elvis Costello, although I'd watch that too. I would also watch that. Elvis Presley. What about Sharon Elvis Costello? What about Sharon Elvis Presley? Wait a second.

Yeah. No, the Elvis of it, like him having that Judy Garland weight to him. Would it be? Like the thematic way exactly now he hadn't done a movie in a couple years apparently tom parker asked well he'd done a movie called change of habit and yeah 69 yeah yeah uh he's on tour he's making tons of money so tom parker is

apparently like you know well i'll only do it for one million dollars or whatever his other thing by all accounts was that in the movie the guy's obviously washed up right right and he's like i don't want you to position yourself yeah yeah in that way i'm making money hand over fist which i'm then uh piling directly into debt converting into debt yeah uh but i you on doing your residency at Vegas. Yeah. People might be making jokes about you being sweaty or puffy or whatever, but you're the biggest act. I don't want a movie out there that's billboarding you as drunk, circling the drain. And it's interesting because you wonder what it could have done to change the trajectory. There's the scene in the Baz Luhrmann movie that I find very heartbreaking

where he's talking to Priscilla and he's like, I think I got more to give. Like, I can do this movie and I can show people the things I've never gotten to do. And it's an imagined scene, you know, simplified dramatic scene. Right. But you just have to imagine that was his feeling at

the time. And you do feel like he would have brought a lot to it probably would have crushed would have been entirely different movie incredibly interesting movie yes if it had even been made yes barbara does learn to play guitar for the film and uh works on the melody that becomes evergreen which wins her her second oscar for original song comes one of the best song songs of the 70s She was handed that Oscar by Neil Diamond For some reason

And he was also Someone had been bandied About for the part at some point Makes sense He's in the other ill-advised Remake jazz singer in which he does blackface No one ever talks about it Oh, gee, I wonder why Should I cut that out? That which he does blackface no one ever talks about it oh i wonder why

uh cut that out that neil diamond did blackface in uh uh the jazz singer cut it out of the jazz singer yeah rip a copy of the jazz singer we can go find that guy who's doing archive work and see if he can keep it in the episode come on true but cut it out of the fucking movie also Laurence Olivier is wearing 12 fake noses in that film yes she is that's an insane performance yes

look the highlight of production is they have a 55,000 person concert at the Sun Devil Stadium in Arizona it is astounding and Streisand is singing

and everyone's going crazy I was gonna say is it was it a concert like I always wonder with scenes like that especially now that I've made movies you, was it a concert? I always wonder with scenes like that, especially now that I've made movies,

you wonder, is it a concert? And then they were like, this is also going to be a filming day? Or did they say, show up filming, Streisand's going to sing? I think it's more the latter. Like, Cooper, Star is Born, I think they mostly... They're running on stage.

They used Gaga concerts for one of the scenes. And they'd go to like music festivals or whatever. And what they were mostly doing was with Willie Nelson's son. What's his name? Trying for the Real is the name of the band. You know, like they would be doing shows. Promise of the Real. And then, right.

Bradley Cooper would run on stage for a bit and go like, you know, Black and red, red, white. And they'd be like, whoo! It's that. You get like five minutes. Some of their friends with. And they're like, can we hijack your audience for 10 minutes and film a performance? It's like the idol. like five minutes. Someone they're friends with and they're like, can we hijack your audience for 10 minutes

and film a performance? Oh my God, it's like The Idol. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very realistic show, right? Very realistic. That's what it's like.

Ripped from the headlines. That's exactly what it's like. But that sequence, because at first you're getting mostly shots focusing on the stage. Yeah. They'll cut out to the audience

and I'm like, maybe this is like stock footage. Maybe they went and got this B-roll at some real concert. Yeah, maybe, yeah. It's a second unit. And then we're just close up on the stage. Yeah. They'll cut out to the audience and I'm like, maybe this is like stock footage. Maybe they went and got this B-roll at some real concert. Yeah, maybe, yeah. It's a second unit. And then we're just close up on the performance.

And then there are moments where the camera like moves from the stage to the crowd. Yeah. And you just, viewed through a modern lens, cannot imagine having that many people on camera.

In both versions. They just never do that for real anymore. It's wild, yeah. Yeah. In both versions of, like the 70s and the, you know, the Bradley Cooper version. There are some wild shots with a real crowd.

Right. And it's like, it's rules. I love the bit in this version of this movie, this rise in version with, where it kind of turns into a pseudo documentary at one point to kind of document her meteoric rise into stardom. I love that. Like, it cuts oddly seamlessly, but it's also so out of place. But I subscribe. Yeah.

I think it's great. I do too. Do you want me to tell you what Barbara Streisand told the crowd when they started filming that day? Oh no. Yes, I do. We're going to do rock and roll today. And we're going to be in a movie.

In our movie, we're real. We fight, scream, yell. We talk dirty. We smoke grass. So listen, what we're going to do now is meet my co-star, Chris Christopherson. And when he comes on, I know you'll love him anyway, but you have to love him even more, you know, so we won't have any problems. In the lingo of our movie, I say, all you motherfuckers have a great time.

Imagine Barbra Streisand yelling at that at you while you're on grass. I love it. So can we talk about the thing now? Yeah, please. What's the thing? Is Barbra Streisand ever, for a moment, convincing as a rock star in this film? I think this is like the crux of any conversation around this movie, right? Which is like, I think she is good in it.

Sure. Anytime she is singing. I think she's such an arresting performer. It is undeniable. She's not really like bad. No. And that's like, you read Ebert's review from the time. He gives us two out of four, right?

And he's like, she never once is convincing in this role as they position her. It feels like a misframing of who she is and how she reads on camera. And yet, anytime she's singing, you are reminded that she is, his term he uses is undeniably

one of the great elemental movie stars. One of the best people to ever be on screen. And there is that thing where it's like, anytime the movie needs to sell, she's singing and people cannot deny what she's doing. It works other than the framing of what type

of star she is. And it feels odd because it's like 10 degrees off of, I have no doubt that she would have a meteoric Right. And it feels odd because it's like 10 degrees off of, I have no doubt that she would have a meteoric success. But it feels odd the kind of star

they're trying to pretend she is versus Chris Christopherson who is obviously just really this guy. Right. What do you think, It's interesting

because I feel like when I was watching it, I didn't even put her in the rock star box when I was watching it. was i was just kind of like oh she's a famous singer sure i didn't go like oh right she's a rock star because i mean it's a good point it's like when we meet her she's in like a smoky club right in her band the oreos the oreos jesus christ yeah i was like you couldn't do that now she's the cream filling i really just could not believe that and then that and that's the kind of music she kind of

goes off to sing but then she just gets like these very 70s right ballads nightclub like and much more more in line with who barbara streisand was a as a recording artist at that moment yeah for sure yes so i guess i guess, I guess I agree. I mean, I do agree. You can't tell what kind of star she is. Just the fact that she's a really good singer

and she's singing for many, many people and getting very famous. But that attitude of how she's like prepping the crowd. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right?

Feels like the thing she was doing of like, you know, and it's part of this John Peter's like, I want you to be like sexy. I want you to be cool. None of this like sheepish, you know, like Wilting Willow kind of stuff, you know, and it's part of this John Peter's like, I want you to be like sexy. I want you to be cool. None of this like sheepish,

you know, like wilting willow kind of stuff, whatever. She's not a hard edge performer in that way. No, no. And I think the Cooper movie has a better framing of Gaga of like,

this is what she'd like to be singing. This is sort of the pop mold she's getting put into because that's what you need to do in this industry. But you understand underlying what her dream would be as a performer. Yeah.

And the only, and like, even in the script to screen of that movie in particular, the star isn't born until the very end where she goes back to that type of singing, that lyrical ballad singing and not, why did you do that? You know? And Evergreen is like such a classical ballad. Exactly. And it's weird

that it's in a movie that's like, and this is the fucking pills and weed rock star version. Right. And the industry's gonna ruin you. Yeah. She doesn't get really affected by the industry at all in that movie. Well, she doesn't sing about her genes. And Alec Baldwin introduces her on SNL. Oh, well, no i'm yeah i'm sorry no in this no the industry definitely affects gaga yeah yeah in this movie i don't really have a sense of her really struggling at

all no she's just like i'm going on tour right she was incredibly stable the whole film because you're like yeah you're barbara streisand which is the problem with this movie you're like yeah you're you've been doing this for 20 years, girl. You're great. Like, I'm not worried about Barbra Streisand. And it's so funny because I had the same thought I had when we were doing our cabaret episode, where I was like,

Liza Minnelli would never be trapped in this nightclub. Right. Which is obviously the... Right. This is the point. But I think that was like something I wrote down as an O. I was like, none of these women in every version of A Star is Born

would ever be waiting for some dude. No. To come discover them. And this is exactly what Barbara did with her life. But here's the thing. Like as much as this is the movie that makes her realize I should be directing my own films.

Right. Which is a positive, a net positive takeaway from this experience. I do think this is the movie where you're like, it could have benefited from her having a really good director who could have pushed her to break her habits as an actress a little bit. Because what would have been really shocking is to see a certain vulnerability that she had never put on screen before.

For how much Streisand would be sort of like low status, who me, the ugly duckling thing we're talking about. There's the sort of like raw, uncomfortable vulnerability of Liza and Cabaret that's so striking where you're like,

there's something a little desperate here. Yeah. The longing, the sort of like, you know, whatever it is. Yeah. It would have been astounding to see

Streisand let a little bit of that out in this. I know. And I think she's too poised to do it. And the only time you ever really see beyond that curtain

is like in every version of the movie, the conversation with the manager. Yes. Being like, but I still love him and he's my problem

and I love him. Yeah. Got that one line reading that I think is the most affecting part of the entire film where she goes like, when he's my problem and I love him. Got that one line reading that I think is the most affecting part of the entire film where she goes like, when he's sleeping,

he's so beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Just all the hurt and pains like gone from his face. You know? And it's like, it's the best single line,

I think, across these four versions of this story at conveying why she's still with him. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a good call.

Because the other ones, it's more, well, the Mason-Garland romance is maybe the weirdest. Like, they are the most ill-matched. Although Mason's really good. Gaga and Cooper, you're just like, yeah, they have like

some kind of natural sexual chemistry. They sell the magnetism more. I do think Christopherson and Streisand sell being deeply in love. Yeah. Because they're both crazy.

God bless them. They're crazy. And, you know, Streisand is just so exciting to see in a movie. Yeah. Basically always. Yeah. That even though I feel like she's kind of lost

in most of this movie, I do think she's kind of lost in this movie this movie, I do think she's kind of lost in this movie. I agree. Like, I don't really, like, if she's on screen,

I'm not, I don't, maybe lost is the wrong word because I'm still, like, noticing her. I'm still, like,

so invested in what she's doing. She's working through, it's an awkward transitional stage for her because there's even, like, the early courtship stuff, it feels like she's playing it

very, like, Fanny Bryce. Yeah. Like, why don't you come up to mom and make me breakfast? You know, feels like she's playing it very like Fanny Bryce yeah like why don't you come up to mom make me breakfast you know like everything's a little like with her in a way that's fascinating that's like out of tone with the movie out of tone with Christopherson yeah that's it that's the thing I felt the entire

film is just stakes out the window I don't care yeah right and it is a lot of hanging out yeah like a lot of hanging out. Yeah. Like a lot of hanging out. Yeah. In just vibes. 2.30. Yeah.

It's a long film. Did you folks watch the special edition or the regular edition? I don't know. I don't know. I think I just watched whatever. I watched whatever they gave me. So I bought this on iTunes. And I saw there was a special edition listed.

Yeah. And I went like, what the fuck is this? What's so special about it? And then I dug into it in 2019 before... After. Yes. You know what? It tied to the release of the new one. I think it was 2018. It wasn't even... That was semi-coincidental. She did

a new special for Netflix. And as part of that she sold like six of her things to Netflix. Netflix had a whole Barbara section that now is gone. Of course. Only the one special she made for Netflix is up there.

I forget which one that is, but like all of her old TV specials were up there, a couple of her concert specials, and she sold them Star Is Born, but she recut it just for Netflix. Okay. And was like, there are a couple of decisions I made that have been bugging me for the last 40 years.

And I just went back in and I fixed them. Okay. And I think it's really only two major changes. But both of them are, I would argue, really positive. Okay. One of them is they include a scene earlier where she plays Evergreen for him on the piano. That makes sense to get that song in earlier. Yes.

Where he's like, do you play? And she's like, yeah. And she's just playing it. And he goes like, what's that? And she's like, it's like a symphony I'm working on, but I never have words to it. So it's the parking lot. It is. It's fascinating because it is that exact scene.

Yeah. Which is like a crucial scene. She's playing it, but she doesn't have any lyrics. And she's just sort of like humming along and playing on the piano. And then he's like, I can come up with something. And he starts improvising Evergreen. I think I did see that scene, so I must have watched this version. Yeah.

Yeah, that does ring a bell. It does seem. It's a good scene and it sells like their artistic collaboration, which I think is big for later her wanting so badly him to be on tour and all of that. Right. And then the other difference is the final number as theatrically released was one seven minute unbroken close up shot for the whole thing. Right. And what's the final song she does? What's the last thing now? Right. She did, I think, a more plaintive ballad type version of that. Yeah. More of a Barbara version. Right. And in the special edition, it cuts out to a wider shot and she does more of a rock and roll performance of it that I think is the only point in the movie in which she sells being a rock star, quote unquote.

Right. But she said she cut the evergreen piano scene because she was only worried about pacing at the time. Okay. The movie had to be shorter. And she said that was like a force through the trees. It really helped the movie later on if you kept that in. That was a mistake. And she wanted the rock performance

of Watch Closely Now, Look Closely Now. But people were impressed by the skill of the seven-minute unbroken take. And she lost that argument of just everyone saying just keep it that way which is sort of a fair call in a way yeah

yeah I think so okay Chris Christopherson got drunk to play all the drunk scenes got high to play all the high scenes he says the film was the worst thing he'd been through since ranger school at one point John Peters said he Chris Christopherson snapped told

Streisand to fuck off because she was telling him what to do. And Peters said, you owe my little lady an apology. And Christopherson said, if I want some shit out of you,

I'll squeeze your head. Funny. Which is fun. Looking back, he says that has to be one of the all-time great lines. So he's praising himself. When Peters,

when this movie was coming out, Peters kept on saying like, yeah, that guy's kind of based on me. I this character on me he's really christopherson's playing me and then there was some interview with christopherson they said is it true you're playing john peters and he went no i'm playing me yeah that's the thing he then watches the movie and is like i need to get sober yeah he's like i that he's like i'm seeing myself like i'm watching the twilight zone you know and it's like i'm watching my myself. Like, I'm watching the Twilight Zone. You know, and it's like, I'm watching my own, like, death approach

if I keep behaving this way. Wow. Yes. Pearson does make an initial cut. His ass gets kicked into a swimming pool and they take over. And then they, as you said, basically, you know, did the rest themselves.

And they had notes for the projectionists when they presented the reels to them. Make sure that reels one and two are as loud as possible. Love that. It's a loud movie. It is a loud movie. It is a loud movie. I mean, it's the same with the

Cooper movie, which is when we saw it at TIFF, we had to see it at the lightbox because that had Dolby. Sure. And they fucking blasted it. Yeah. And it was part, yeah.

And we, it was kind of one of these things where we were, and we'd seen the trailer at this point, like we knew, but still where you were like, damn,

this movie's like going hard. Like, you know, this like Lady Gaga Star is Born movie is like, you know? So, and this movie too, it's like, Bradley Cooper Jackson main has board movie is like, you know?

And this movie, too, it's like. Bradley Cooper Jackson main has that sort of, like, broken poet thing, right? Of, like, there's this guy can't get out from under his own demons, but there's genius there. There's feeling there. There's all of this. It is fascinating. Remind me what Kristofferson's character's name is. And she says it eight million times.

Oh, he is, of course, John Norman Howard. John Norman Howard. Oh, yeah. I forgot. He's not a main. I find it fascinating in a, not a successful way, but it is interesting that he's basically like an idiot savant in this movie. Yes. Right?

A little bit. Yeah. Like everyone treats it like they're just like, well, this guy's a moron. Yeah. He is undeniably compelling on stage. He's probably going to kill himself at some point. Yeah. Just keep loading him full of drugs to get him to finish moron. Yeah. He is undeniably compelling on stage. He's probably going to kill himself at some point. Yeah.

Just keep loading him full of drugs to get him to finish the concert. Yeah. So weird. And he keeps on saying like, I'm working on new stuff. It's good. It's better.

But you like never hear his new songs really, right? No. No. No. And then like, we forget he ever had a career to start with. Right.

And there's this attitude from everyone when he's like, I'm going back to basics. I'm writing new songs. They're like, maybe accept your careers over. Like, they don't even want to hear his shit. Nothing. They're like, your moment's passed. Yeah. Yeah.

What are some other things we can talk about from this movie? I'm trying to think. Why is she not more enraged by him quite literally cheating on her? Cheating on her. That scene is kind of amazing. In their bed. In their bed. You've got, what's her name?

Quentin. Yeah, Quentin. Who's a naked woman in his pool and he didn't call the cops. This is the 70s. This is very, it feels so 70s though. It's like, some naked hit me on the pool. All right, I guess, should we have sex? And she's like, can I interview Esther?

Can I interview your wife? Yeah, baby, I can make that happen for you. And then when she shows up. She has keys to his place because she used to fuck the pool guy years ago. Right, sure. Baller. Right.

Either that or she just vaulted a fence. I mean, who knows? Right. She's a journalist. We never see the keys. Right. Yeah, right. We don't see her come in.

Right. And this is coming right off of, is it after the Grammy win? It's off of a love moment. It's post the Grammy win. Yeah. Right. Like he's already kind of in the doghouse.

He's completely fucked. And he's like, I'm going to fuck the interviewer. Yeah. And then when she walks in on them, he's like, oh, she's got some questions for you.

Yeah. She wants an interview. My favorite part is that, right, he's like, and she's like, oh, yeah,

yeah, yeah. Like tits out. Just like, can I, I'll just go get my tape recorder or something. And Barbara's like, first question, do you know your husband can't get it up? Yeah.

Is basically what she said. And then I feel like Christopherson actually gives her shit for me. Come on, my friend needs an interview. Like, doesn't he kind of? Yeah, he does. He's like pissed at her for not wanting to talk to the other woman. The audacity of man. There's the thing where he's trying to kiss

and make up and Stray Sans starts biting his lip that is genuinely very hot. And then they start having like angry makeup sex while it feels like the reporter is just

so slowly being like, where's the exit? I'm gonna go. Where's my, yeah, I gotta be in the pool house. Where's my top? Yeah, who knows?

It's okay. Yes. The scene, directed to the room but i feel like ben most of all uh where he discovers uh strice and at the club performing and he gets into the fight with the

guy who wants to see him performing and wants his autograph wants him on stage did any of you recognize who that actor was i don't think so did you not recognize who it was david no what i'm

talking about the goofy guy. Yeah, of course. Who's just like, hey, we pay your bills. You better get up on their performance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is Robert Anglin, Freddy Krueger himself. You're kidding. An early performance from Freddy Krueger.

Interesting. No, I didn't crack that at all. Who mostly played that, played like goofy hicks and stuff in movies. Yeah, because he's got the big kind of forehead and like, yeah, yeah, yeah. He played a lot of like sleazy G-Shucks guys until they put, once they put the hat on him, everything changed. Wow. Yeah. That's incredible.

I was happy to see him. I mean, that's the thing. Like, it's like very interesting to see Gary Busey. I think that first sequence is really compelling in that way. Yeah, well, these stories you hear about, like, people where it's like, how the fuck did that guy make it through a concert?

You know? It's like the audience is cheering. Everyone backstage is like, he's fucking doing it again. He shows up. He's incoherent. Gary Busey shoves four things up his nose. He gets on stage wearing, like, a Halloween mask

and just growls. And you're like, it is compelling. I would pay to watch this. Well, shit. Yeah, no, it really is that moment. The music industry and like just like concerts and just it was very different. Yeah. Like what was acceptable?

Behavioral wise. There was less to do back then. You know, you go to a show and Christopherson comes out in a Halloween mask. You're like, yeah, well, what else was I going to do? I'll watch this. Right. I don't have a phone. My phone's at home.

Well, that's the thing now. I feel like there's just like this. What am I going to do? Sit at home? Look at the red redial? I did play Pac-Man on it. Sorry. No, no.

Nowadays, there's this idea of eras and a persona and all of these things. I mean, you can even use Lady Gaga as an example of like the way she burst onto the scene was, yeah, she would get on stage and do something weird. Like nobody thought that about Christofferson's character because they didn't fucking know who he was. It's unbridled in. Yeah. It's this guy might puke on me tonight. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, the scene. But that was the whole early Lady Gaga thing. It was like, you won't believe what this woman does sitting at a piano like that was like that early vibe but she always talked about that much in this kind of way

of like I knew the kind of music I wanted to do that music didn't sell I need to play the game of the industry and slowly start working in

stripping it down getting it back to basics I love the way she talks about it now and where she's just kind of like I was doing my thing you know

and that's exactly what got her sometimes all it takes is one person in a room yeah I love the way she talks about it now. And where she's just kind of like, I was doing my thing. You know? Yeah. And that's exactly what got her. Sometimes all it takes is one person in a room. I was there. To one. Look, we, the Critics Circle, gave her Best Actress for House of Gooch. And I was there for what was essentially her Oscar speech that she didn't get to deliver anywhere else. And it was a tour de force.

It was 20 minutes. It was amazing. I know she won the Song Oscar. force. It was 20 minutes. It was amazing. I know she won the song Oscar. But it's like more than anything I want to see her win Best Actress eventually so she can get that speech. The speech will be better than whatever performance she gives.

Not to diminish her. I think she's a really good actress and movie star. She's so strong. And I really do think she'll get her chance to accept that Best Actress Oscar one day. And I think she's building her career in a very interesting way in terms of what she's taking on. She takes on good projects. And it's so funny because she's somebody who you can tell she cares so much.

But she's also just genuinely having such a good time while doing it that it's really admirable. She's like a real star. She doesn't need us. That's the thing. She doesn't need us. She doesn't need the stupid industry she needs just one person she just needs one person in that room

I love her so much she's my mom I think this movie because there are moments where you're like this movie is like hitting something good right the Gary Busey character I like that he is not

nefarious right he's not trying to I like that he is not nefarious, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's not trying to get anything out of anybody. No. He's just genuinely the working man

trying to make a living and he's pissed off at what's getting in his way. He's genuinely kind of his best friend. Yes. But the thing it speaks to really well is like

a guy like this who's trapped in an absolute cycle of like self-destruction, right? There's that line Streisand has when she goes to his house for the first time

and she goes, so what are you, were you really rich or really poor? Yeah. Where she can't figure out what was your central trauma? Yeah. What broke you when you were growing up?

Yeah, and what got you here? Right, and they never answer it. I actually really like the lack of backstory. Yeah. Of just like, this guy's undeniably got something, but like, why can't he get out of his own way? Why can't he figure it out?

Right. My brother's character actor, Sam Elliott. Right. And it just feels like Gary Busey is like genuinely kind of trying his best. Yeah. And it's just like, here you go. Here are the four things I know you need to make it through the next 45 minutes. And then every time he, you know, does a motorcycle

wheelie off the stage or like pukes on people or pisses himself or any of these fucking things, he's just trashes his own house, spray paints the walls. Who do I need to call now? Like, everyone's stuck in the routine of the thing. In this way that like, when you are an industry, when you're making money for people

and you've built like an organization around yourself, right? And a staff and whatever. Even when people can see like writing's on the wall, this isn't going to end good. They're just sort of like, we need to just do whatever we can do to keep the machines running. Like if you shoot a helicopter, someone will just call 911

and be like, there's a sniper afoot. And I like that none of them are like positioned as being like inherently duplicitous. No. Evil. Because I think the agent character in the Cooper movie is the biggest mistake of that film where he is like. It really sucks.

It's oddly. Too mustache twirly. It doesn't fit. It's very nefarious. And this is like all these people. The scene with Mazursky where he's like, I'll listen. I'll listen to the tapes. I really will is kind of touching where he's just like there's no future for you but I'm really listening

to what you're saying and I feel bad for you and they have that moment in the Garland one with you know the head of the studio comes to visit her on set and she says he says would it help if we put him in something yeah and she's like oh God, would you do that? And really thinks that that's going to turn it all around. Yes. And the dramatic irony of it is that we know

that it's not. Right. It's a story that's been told a million times, but those moments matter in movies like this. Esther wanting him to be on the tour

is like 50% I want the accountability of. I need him in my sight. Right? And I need to be the one providing him structure and whatever. But I think she also thinks like it's why

putting the evergreen scene in is really valuable for the movie is like if we could recapture that on stage every night yeah that's the version of him that I love and if I could show that to some people he has a future and that's and I wonder if Cooper was tipped off about that or something

because yeah that shall you know she's singing shallow at her fucking chrome piano that she brought on the Joanne tour. I know I was there. And she's singing it and she wanted to sing it with him. And that's why she wanted to bring him on tours to capture the magic of why they fell in love and why she became a star and why he's the reason. And it makes me wonder if he knew that that evergreen scene had been cut. Why? I just think, like...

I imagine he knew in some capacity. I don't know. This movie is quietly smart about how complicit everyone is in his self-destruction

without being sinister. You know? And they're all in this position where they're like, this guy makes my life so fucking difficult. Right. The way Mazursky's like,

I gotta fucking call the cops and pretend, or Busey's the one who pretends it was a sniper when he was the one shooting a pistol at the helicopter. He's like,

I gotta do this fucking again. Yeah. Like, why does this guy make my life a living hell? But they're also all only doing what he needs to keep making money rather than really trying to help him at any

moment right yeah right i don't know i like the agent character in the cooper one i think the industry's like that now they just fucking they're like this guy's gotta go yeah history's bad but yeah mazurski's a match well mazurski's all right in this one but this one that feels more 70s right where it's like yeah i guess just i'll just die in this castle of ours i guess right we'll just keep doing drugs and like in my in my head it's like if you, I guess I'll just die in this castle of ours, I guess, right? We'll just keep doing drugs. And like, in my head, it's like if you're a rock star like that, you live in a house

and then they just keep adding layers to your house until you can't even leave. You don't even know where the exit is, you know? That house though is incredible. I know. Yes. Yeah.

Like, how would you describe the design? Like, what era is that? Like Wayne Manor? No, like, is it like... I can't think of the name. I'll have to look it up. Yeah. I like the pagoda, too. The pagoda ranch.

The one they build? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That one's cool, too. That place looks relaxing. Like, I like their little loft weekend. Yeah. It's nice.

And he just kind of builds that in like, I don't know, like a day. Yeah. Is that like what we're That's how it's depicted. Yeah. Do you mean the ranch house

where they have the honeymoon? Like which house? Yeah, his mansion. It's like LA mansion. I know. I'm trying to think. I can't think of, there's like a very

particular name for it. Whatever. It doesn't matter. I want to see it. Because most of the stuff is about their honeymoon house, which is cool. total maximalist design in it which is you know like the decoration is there's so many mirrors so much curtain you're a big star so like every wall in your house is a mirror right i i actually don't think i own a single mirror that isn't in a bathroom you live in a sphere

uh no you need to yeah you need to wear a suit of armor that's made of mirrors at all times. So everybody can look at themselves when they're looking at you. Exactly. It's a commentary. Yeah. Because actors are just reflections of other people.

Exactly, Rachel. Thank you. Exactly. Yeah. You should take pictures of the paparazzi. Yeah. And I do.

Yeah. Well, what was the thing I was going to say? Stars Born. Chris Christopherson is in the movie with Barbra Streisand. Oh, it's one of the things that's

just very... It did help me. That worked. It's one of the things that makes this story so sticky, right? Is that you enter in mostly through the eyes of the young woman

who's just like, I cannot imagine this world you live in. Look at these people around you, this house that seems to go on forever. You just get to walk on stage and people love you. Even when you're fucking up. Yeah. Everything is like supported for you. And then the moment she hits,

the energy changes so much where your perspective, you go like, oh, this guy is slipping. I know the guy was slipping psychologically, but like almost immediately her star is so much bigger than we've ever seen him be yeah and you can fill in the blanks and go maybe he was there at some point or maybe she's already eclipsed the height of where he was but it's like the scene where meserski is just kind of like he's already done yeah we've known he's been done for a year.

We've been riding out on the fumes. Mm-hmm. There's nothing left there. Yeah. There's not a... Well, it's like that scene where he goes to visit the studio and Busey's there

and they're just recording with other people, new music. And he's like, yeah, we're just, we like this sound. It's really nice. It's a good sound

that they've got going. Like, he never even existed. Yeah. But he was missing for like six weeks and they were like, well, this is actually've got going. Like he never even existed. Yeah. But he was missing for like six weeks and they were like well this is actually kind of healthier.

Just move on. Yeah. And we don't really see though the effect that that genuinely has on him because we don't see him ever on the up and up.

And Busey when he's giving him the bad news in that scene is also still giving him bumps off the little spoon. Yeah. You really gotta keep him you know stable.

Yeah. Yeah. He said hey remember this? you know, stable. Yeah. He said, hey, remember this? Keep this guy level. Yeah, right. There's the Grammys scene, obviously, which is crucial to any Star is Born movie is man makes a scene at award ceremony. Yeah.

Which is good and embarrassing. The Cooper one is so brutal that it's almost hard to watch. This one is more classic, just like... The Grammy is when he pisses himself. Yes. It's a little much. I'll say the Garland one's kind of hard to watch, too.

Yeah, the Garland one's really brutal. Yeah. James Mason's so good. Because doesn't he accidentally hit her in the face in that one, too? Yeah. That's tough. But it's, it's what works about,

um, how do I put this? I don't know. I don't know. I was watching this movie through the prism of getting ready to talk about Babs for a bit, a bit of Babs we have. A bit of Babs,

a babble about Babs. A sprinkling of Babs. Yeah. Babs babbling. Babs babbling. Yeah. Um, that,

that thing I was saying earlier of her being one of those people where you're just like inevitable, undeniable. Yeah. Right? It was just like sheer force of will and talent.

She was going to be Barbra Streisand no matter what. Yeah. And I feel like all these stars born movies have that element of like

the woman at the center at the beginning is sort of like who me? I don't know. Everyone's told me I'll never make it. I like doing this. I've accepted my position in all of this.

Yeah. Right. I don't really want all of this necessarily. I'm kind of fine with where I am. And then someone pushes them onto the bigger stage and they just not only immediately explode, but kind of take to it immediately. Yeah.

We're much in the same way where when she hits, you realize how much bigger she immediately is than he ever was. That she is so much better adjusted than he is. That's the thing. Like, it's another thing I think this movie gets right is after that first concert where he forces her to perform, she's so nervous. It feels like she's going to bomb. And then over the course of three songs she just destroys and then when everyone's hoarding her outside mobbing her and all the press are putting the microphones in her face she has like funny quips for every question and you're like barbara right her whole life has been ready for this moment

right but i mean this is sort of my problem with movies i'm like she's too famous there's no struggle right because she's barbara stre Whereas like, again, the Cooper one somehow gets away with it. Like I buy Lady Gaga's, you know, a nobody in that movie, which is surprising. Yeah. Well, yeah. And I think it worked because you'd never seen her stripped down before. I get it. And you'd never really seen her act. You had to be like a diehard fan to know like when she came up with the album Joanne, she really stripped herself down vocally and great album. And, you know, as somebody who was there for all of that, I was not shocked to see her be so real and grounded and look like a person.

Most people are like, oh, it's poker face, you know, paparazzi. And they have no idea but that's that's what's amazing about these movies though is that it stripped back the the the for lack of a better term the glitter of the of the women who were at the forefront of these films and stripped them down to a way that nobody had ever seen them before it's really nice that the movie's called glitter like why had no one ever called a movie glitter before yeah? Yeah, it's a good title. Terrence Howard's in it, right? Yes. So is Padma Lakshi, I'm pretty sure.

Yep. Apparently she plays a character called Silk. Yeah, she's... A famous singer. Yeah, she's in it. I think Mariah Carey does background vocals for her in the opening, and she's apparently a hack. She's lip-syncingcing and Mariah's like I can

do that oh she can like right you don't need this lip syncing yeah Debrat is in it one of the great hip hop artists in the 90s why not yeah I had it saved before but the Frank Pearson article so I can read there's like a particularly damning quote I mean go ahead

I mean certainly I have some quotes which was he was he was very mean. Really? This is a month before the movie comes out. That's that's the thing. That's what's why it's sort of impressive where he's like, I'm kneecapping you. That's the thing. It's one of those like Josh Trank levels of self-sabotage where you're just like, wait until the movies come out.

Yeah. And if it's something to be celebrated, don't you want to be celebrated? Totally. If it bombs, then you can sort of like vindicate yourself after the fact. I wonder if he was

kind of like prepping himself for a possible backlash that would come if it were really successful and everybody was giving him credit and Babs was going to get up there and be like, actually, it was all me.

Right, I took this movie over. And then he wanted to kind of like... Possibly. I think it was a mistake, though, because I feel like that just kills your career. Totally. Like, he's never a major director because of this movie.

No, but I think his attitude... Even though this was a hit. I think you're right, Rachel, that strategically his attitude was, if I position myself as... Or if I give everyone the story of my struggle to get my voice through in this movie, then anything they do like

in the movie, they'll credit to me. And anything they don't like, they'll say, well, it was out of his control. Yeah. That's what I think. It was some kind of strategy to just safeguard himself, not knowing what the response was going to be. To write like an eight-page article for New York Magazine, like a big outlet. It's not

like a string of tweets in the modern era. And if he had just stayed quiet yeah the movie comes out it's a big hit that gets kind of middling reviews a few oscar noms nothing major and he had just been like yeah so i was the director of that everyone probably would have been chill about it yeah you know he would have been like yeah you know barbara obviously strong force of personality but you know yeah and then he gets to make some other movie. You made a big hit, buddy. But she basically just now, like it has taken the,

I don't even think about you route, where for the last 40 years, she just talks about the movie without mentioning him. She does the director's commentary. She does the like retrospective press. And she just says like, when John and I were making Star is Born.

She can knock directors and actors clear out of the practice of their profession with 10% of her energy, says Frank Pearson of Barbra Streisand. Wow. You know, apparently they fought the whole time. She said, I don't feel you really want to love me. All my directors have wanted to make me beautiful. I feel like you're holding something back. There's something you don't tell me.

You never talk to me. Now, this is Frank quoting Barbara. Sure. So, I don't know. And Frank says, I love love you but i'm not the demonstrative type okay i don't know um every rehearsal barbara can never settle on a final reading nothing ever gets done i this is again his telling of things uh you know the dailies are good but they're not good enough uh barbara and john can't see how they go together They convince the movie's a disaster

They yell that he's ruined it I've never been so tired not since World War II Both he and Chris Christopherson comparing this movie To serving in the military Yeah that is a yikes You know back in the day fucking 70s directors Could be like look man I was in Germany Yeah and I preferred that

Yeah and I'd go back um uh and you know i guess like it does kind of seem like that classic like barbara and john have the idea of the movie and they're watching dailies and being like you're fucking up whatever our idea of this movie is yeah right like you know and they're probably he's probably not yeah like i don't know that he was really to blame for anything but you know there's no there probably not. Yeah. Like, I don't know that he was really to blame for anything. But, you know, there's no sense of collaboration. They see him as a roadblock. I don't know if it's just that the bones of Star is Born hit on something so primal and fascinating.

Where, like, yeah, every 20 years we want the fame machine to, like, look inwards and tell this tragedy about like how we dispose of people and and also how we like dehumanize people in the process of i mean that's what's so poignant about it is the sort of like one person on the way out one person walking in kind of thing where this movie always leaves you with this note of like how's she gonna look in 30 years exactly she seems to have a better head on her shoulders. But like, who knows? What price Hollywood, you could say. But I had always been led to believe like, well, they made three great stars, Bourne's, and obviously there's the turd from the 70s that we all went to see. And I think it's like there's enough here.

It's a sloppy ass movie. Yeah. But I think it does have some juice to it. Yeah. I think there's definitely a reason people still watch it you know yeah it's because she's in it it's because he's in it and it's because everybody knows the song Evergreen

you know it's a really upsetting scene although it's a little it almost feels like a family guy gag or something when I mean he does I like that his suicide is him just racing the car in this yeah you know that drives

like the wind and then you never see him again spiritual about it it's almost it is yeah could be unintentional right right because you have the same moment that you have of like,

you're dragging her down, man. Yeah. Her career is hamstrung by you. Yeah. And when it becomes like a deliberate suicide by your own hand, then it sort of feels

like this thing of like, martyrdom, he's sacrificing himself versus this where it's like, it's just a whole ball of emotions. Yeah. And it's, yeah, it's kind of mythical. He emotions yeah and it's yeah it's

kind of mythical he drives off and then the next thing you see him in his motorcycle the crane raising lowering down from the sky and her they're talking to his dead body and begging for blankets and whatever which is the one scene where i think she kind of has that vulnerability i wanted to see in some other places in the movie um and then you have the scene where she's like tossing and turning in the bed in their mansion, hears his voice, starts running down the stairs. You think she's hallucinating. You see that they're already movers

moving shit out of the house. Like she doesn't even have time to grieve before they're dismantling her home. Before they're moving her, yeah. Right. And then the guy walks in and goes like, hey, I can't figure it out. Turn this tape recorder off.

Oh, yeah. Really? You're right. It does read as a gag a little bit. I think it's a nice idea for a scene. And if that scene

is she walks in and a giant reel-to-reel recorder is playing and some guy's like, yeah, sorry, I turned that on by accident. But you think the guy's too hammy.

Yeah, the guy walks in holding a boombox and it's like, how do you, I turned that on by accident. But you think the guy's too hammy. Yeah, the guy walks in holding a boombox and it's like, how do you turn off this button? How do you turn off this teeny lady? You think I should try it? But I like the idea that she thinks she's hearing him.

She's not imagining it. And it is the tapes of him, including him answering the phone when he's trying to record his demos. Hey, everybody. Stephen Colbert here. I have my own. The show has a podcast, The Late Show Pod Show.

And I'm here with the producer, Becca. Becca, what are we doing? What is this? So, The Late Show Pod Show, it's everything you love about The Late Show. The monologue, the lead guest. Am I correct about this? That you actually get things in the podcast often that aren't on the show because we had to cut things for time? And so you'll get more guests, or you might even get some jokes or some more meanwhiles or something like that we didn't get a chance, or certainly conversations with Lewis and the band that you don't get.

So you get more stuff. If you don't listen to the podcast, you're losing money. It's true. It's true. TV, you can only put so much. You got to get those commercial breaks in, but the podcast, we can keep going. That's the great thing about podcasts is that the real estate is enormously cheap. And so you can just shovel anything in there. People go, thank you. Listen to The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert, wherever you get your podcasts. I use the internet. to The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert

wherever you get your podcasts. I use the internet. Do you want to pull up Box Office Game? I got it ready, baby. Okay. This movie came out

Christmastime in 1976. The number one movie of 1976, of course. We recorded, the other thing we recorded today, Rachel, was a Patreon episode

on Alien vs. Predator. Oh. Of course. Yeah, of course. Perfect double, was a Patreon episode on Alien vs. Predator. Oh. Of course. Yeah, of course. Perfect doubleheader. But the second Alien vs. Predator movie also came out on Christmas Day. It sure did. Did it?

Not in the same year. Not in the same year, no. This film lost, the big movie of 1976 is Rocky. That is the, this is the second biggest movie of the year. Set up for failure. This is the Rocky Network. All the President's Men. Bound for Glory. Taxi Driver is the five biggest movie of the year. Set up for failure. This is the Rocky Network. All the President's Men. Bound for Glory.

Taxi Driver is the five nominees for Best Director. Wow. And you look at some of the stuff that doesn't even make sense. I mean, Scorsese gets bumped out of Best Director. He sure does. This is one of the best Oscar fields ever. Scorsese gets bumped out. Scorsese and who did Bound for Glory?

Fucking Hal Ashby. Hal Ashby got knocked out. Is this Paulini Satyricon? No. For Lena Vertmuller for Seven Dirties and Ingmar Bergman for Face to Face. Wow. All kinds of cool people are nominated this year.

Obviously, Network kind of sweeps the acting awards. This movie, unsurprisingly, wins five Golden Globes. You're right. Hey-oh. The most expected thing ever. It wins a song. Hell yeah. It wins a song. Absolutely. Take pride. Take pride. it wins a song absolutely

take pride it wins a song Oscar that's it's only Oscar but it was nominated for cinematography as well I will say some of the shots in this movie had me saying out loud what a great shot it's Roger Ortiz who's like an old Hollywood guy this is a movie that uses shadows very well

as opposed to Alien vs. Predator Requiem. The darkest movie ever made. Rachel, you would not believe how bad this thing looks. When you have to like squint and be like, what are they looking at?

This movie truly looks like the brightness is down on your phone. Oh, no. Which is as it was meant to be viewed, right? On your phone? Yes.

Watching these two movies within a couple of days of each other, this is, you're just like, right, this is like what an expert cinematographer knows how to do. Right. So this film's coming out Christmas time, and number one,

it's kind of opening at number five. Number one, you know, it's back in the day. But it ends up making 80-something? Second biggest hit of the year makes $80 million. What was the budget? The budget was only

$6 million. That's a huge hit. Yeah. I mean, and the song builds several houses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For many different people.

And this is kind of the beginning of Barbara really just not making a lot more movies. Like now it's like when she makes the movie, it's like a rare thing. This is her word

bitty transition where she's like I'm getting super selective. I'm in the business of being famous. We're beginning with her. Like we're beginning with that. Number one of the box office

is another sort of famous overpriced remake of 1976. That does like well but probably could have done better. Does well but probably could have done better. Seems does well, but probably could have done better. Seems a little bit of a boondoggle. Yeah, but it's another movie

that people keep remaking. It's another movie that people keep remaking. In what genre? Action, adventure. In 76? Yeah.

76, and it's a remake of something earlier and they do it again. They keep doing it. When was the original? 1933. 76. And it's a remake of something earlier. And they do it again. They keep doing it. When was the original? 1933. It's a 1933 movie. Kind of a famous movie.

This one or the 33 one? The 33 one. Right. They're all pretty famous. But this 33 one's real famous. It's real famous. Yeah. Yeah.

It's one of the more famous movies. And I probably seen it. Action adventure film. Why the fuck? This is like going to be glaringly obvious, right? Yeah. They remade it again in 2005. And then they remade it again in 2017 as part of a cinematic universe.

Planet of the Apes. Very close. I'm going to take that. Oh, it's King Kong. King Kong. It's the Jessica Lange, Dino De Laurentiis King Kong. Jessica Lange and Jeff Bridges in King Kong. And Charles Gurdon.

And Charles Gurdon. Was a huge hit at the time. Big hit, but still an underwhelming based on... I feel like it has like the exact same reputation as this movie, which is everyone in the world went to see it. Right. Everyone agreed it was kind of shitty. Right. And the versions before and after all have

better reputations yes but we will still watch it yeah still watch this it's still in the world yeah still in the air number two at the box office is the third in a series of films okay in 1976 crime film it's is it a dirty harry film. But which one? Third one is called... I always get this wrong. I tell you, Tyne Daly's in this one. Magniforce? Nope. That's two. It's not The Enforcer, right? The Enforcer! It is. Okay.

His third film, James Fargo's The Enforcer. And then it's The Deadpool? That's the last one. What's the other one I'm forgetting? Sudden Impact, which is the one Clint Eastwood directed, which is bananas. Any which way I lose is bananas. Well, that's the last one what's the other one I'm forgetting Sudden Impact which is the one Clint Eastwood directed which is bananas yeah uh if no anyone loses bananas well that's true um number three at the box office

another sequel people say sequels have taken over uh but in 1976 this is um a famously uh this is the last uh film of this series it's the fifth uh it's the last where the lead is still with us so this is the last uh film of this series it's the fifth uh it's the last where the lead is still with us so this is a pink panther is it yes see he's good he's very good

trail is the one after he died right the really weird one that's after is this curse no that's um the that's the the one after trail that he's not even in with David Niven and someone else. Jesus, what a weird franchise that is. It's not Strikes Again or Returns, is it? It's Strikes Again. The Pink Panther Strikes Again, 1976. This is the last

Peter Sellers movie and they use footage from this in Trail of the Pink Panther. Do you know about Trail, Rachel? I don't. He died. Okay. Famously. Sad. And then they were Trail, Rachel? I don't. He died. Okay. Famously. Sad. And then they were like, we're going to make a movie

where we take all the outtakes we have left over. And the movie is new footage of actors being like, has anyone seen Clouseau in a while? Does anyone know where he is? And they're like, I heard he was doing this.

And then they cut to some scraps. I kind of love that. From the previous movie. I kind of love that. And the whole movie is like, we just can't find Clouseau anywhere where is he

yeah that's really funny did it turn out as funny as it's been described no I think it's widely despised people hate him oh cool cool cool

they essentially released a clip show in theaters I love it and it wasn't even a best of it was like rejected

b-roll yeah it was b-roll yeah but everyone's just like that Clouseau guy yeah where is he what What happened to him?

Wow. Number four at the box office, a famous documentary. Remember, you may know this, that back in the day, they would just put documentaries in theaters that were just fake. Yes.

That would just say made up shit. And this is one of the most famous. In Search of Noah's Ark? In Search of Noah's Ark. Do you know about this movie? I don't. They bought out crazy television advertisements

at a time where people were not, you know, just like full marketing blitz when marketing was more reserved. Right. And films got word of mouth platform releases. I kicked my head over again. And they just did all these TV ads. They blitz it. You can watch like old Siskel and Ebert where they complain about this thing incessantly.

Oh, my God. A decade later, they still complain about like. This movie, In Search of Noah's Ark, which yes. Right. They bought these TV ads and they were like, we're putting a movie in theaters.

We found Noah's Ark. You have to go to theaters to find the answer. They found Noah's Ark. Right. And it was bullshit in Turkey. You guys all made up. Yeah.

Oh, gee. But they were just like, scoop of the century. You gotta go to theaters to see it. You have to go to theaters to see where it is. Number five is A Star is Born.

You've also got something called The Shaggy D.A. Now, is that a shaggy dog sequel? Yes, that's the sequel. Yes, he goes to court. He's a district attorney. So, Dean Jones and Suzanne Cush. Yes. Lenny's got big shaggy dogs.

What if that became your star demand where you're like, I demand a vehicle for me and my dog. Like, that is what I want. I'll be honest, guys. I think I'm going to get there to that point where I'm like, the dog goes first.

Right. Dog gets first billing. But you're also like, I don't want him in my movies because I don't want him to upstage me. I'm just a package deal. You have to green light

one of his pictures. I would rather he upstage me. That's very, see, this is how I know. No ego. No ego. Because also like,

then this might sound shitty parenting of me, but like, what's he going to do with the money? It'll be mine. That's true. And I'll just use it

to get him more things. No Jackie Coogan law for dogs. Yeah, no. Is there a Coogan account for a dog? I don't think so. I can't imagine. Is there a Renton 10 law?

Yeah, exactly. But it would be nice if you used all of his money to get him things. And that's what I do all the time. I use all my money to get him things. He's's what I do all the time. He's all my money to get him things. He's the most spoiled brat in the world.

Absolutely. Yeah. As a new parent, I can attest. She's two and a half years old, man. And I ain't that new. And I know exactly how old she is. You just found out? Nah, I knew.

I always knew. I was being really funny earlier. She likes to play with the pillows on the sofa. And she just pointed at one and said, that's Ponyo, that's Sosuke. The pillows. That's how deep Ponyo is in her brain right now. Which is, Ponyo's great.

How many times has she watched it now? What do you guess? 40? I don't know. Like, endlessly. She watches it usually in sort of three stages. The second stage is when Ponyo goes to sleep on the couch. That's when we're always like, okay, Ponyo's asleep.

Like, you're gonna be. Smart. That's really smart. Silver Streak is on the couch. That's what we're always like. Okay, Ponyo's asleep. Like, you're going to be. Smart. That's really smart. Silver Streak is on the top 10. Wilder. Weird bad movie. Kind of a bad movie. Yeah, that one I actually have seen.

And it's only got 10 minutes of the two of them. Yeah, that's the one where they realize. The marketing is. It's like Zendaya and Timmy Chalamet in Dune. Yes. It's really just shitty North by Northwest with 10 minutes of those guys riffing off each other I love Dune to death I think it's incredible

but it is funny how that movie ends with her being like oh hey what's up and he's like nice to meet you and the whole press tour was them

palling around I was like they know what they're doing those marketing teams but also the whole movie is him being like I had a dream that Zendaya

is going to have a bigger part in the second one hot stuff everywhere I had a dream that Zendaya is going to have a bigger part in the second one. Hot stuff is everywhere. I had a dream Zendaya was in the sand. Sure, she's always in the sand. We only have her for five days on this one, but the next one she'll be a much larger role.

I had a dream of her multi-tiered contract. Okay. Marathon Man is in the top 10. Network is in the top 10. And then a film called The Monkey Hustle, a blaxploitation film with Yafik Kado and Rudy Mary Moore, which looks pretty fun, about Chicago con men.

It ain't legal and it sure ain't safe, but it do seem worthwhile. That was the tagline. That was the tag. I love it. Good tagline for Daily vs. Predators. Roger Ebert said it was a good-hearted model,

but they must have left half a script back in Hollywood. Oh. Pow. Pow, pow. But Michael J. White says one of the best movies he's ever seen.

Huge influence on Black Dynamite. Rachel, now that Lenny has been wrangled, I want to reopen the floor for you if you have any general final thoughts. Oh. Stars Born, Barbara, etc.

I mean, I just... Thoughts to leave us with for this miniseries any general final thoughts. Oh. Stars Born, Barbara, etc. I mean, I just. Thoughts to leave us with for this miniseries. It's oddly like my, it's, I love her so much. It's my least favorite of Stars Born. Yeah.

And I hate that because I love her so much. And I love Chris Jefferson so much. And I love Gary Busey in it. I love the aesthetic of the film is so great. The music is,

is wonderful. But for some reason, it just doesn't have what it needs. We can acknowledge its influence. Absolutely. And I do think it's fair to acknowledge, like, yeah, the Cooper movie's pulling from this

in some ways, you know? It's in the air. If the Cooper movie was, like, all about Broadway, you'd be like... Wait a second. That sounds good. Yeah.

But you'd be like, oh, that weird 70s Star is Born that was kind of a misfire. Yeah, they did a rock and roll version. But that movie feels like him saying, like, I want to take another look at you. And he, like, that weird 70s Star is Born that was kind of a misfire. But that movie feels like him saying, like, I want to take another look at you. And he, like, cleans it up a little. And it's not just that. It's like,

you know, they tried to do it with Beyonce. It feels like after this movie, it was like, yes, this should be a music thing from now on. Right. Yeah. There was going to be the Clint Eastwood, DiCaprio, Beyonce one that was more traditionally back to the music industry. Right. And Cooper was the one who came in after 10 years of that movie getting redeveloped and said, like, make a drunk country music star. Yeah.

And it just made a lot more sense and it expanded upon the things that needed to be expanded upon. I agree with your commentary about the manager character in that one because he doesn't really exist in the rest of them. And the only reason he really comes in is to be like, you got to stay away from her. Little nudge. You got to stay away from her. I think shitty guys exist like that in the industry.

I can tell you right now they do. They do. But it's one of those things that it's, like you said, it's a bit to, I'm twirling my evil wiry mustache and you need to die. For a movie where the inner demons are always going to be the greatest conflict.

The biggest evil. It's man versus himself. It really is. And then I think Cooper brought an authenticity to it. The Sam Elliott character is amazing and an amazing performance from him. And I think people tend to only really remember the one scene when he's pulling out of the driveway. It's one of the most astonishing.

It is. But he's his scene when he, you know, is talking about, I have to fucking clean up your shit. And then the very end, when he talks about how she sees the notes on the scale, it's a beautiful character. It's a beautiful performance. And I think that's what this movie was lacking, is that emotional grounding of somebody who's loved him in spite of everything

before the female character comes in. It's also smart to add that character in and redistribute some of the Christofferson growl over to that guy and make Cooper a little softer. Exactly. It just gives the character a humanity because you realize that he's been loved before. and make Cooper a little softer. It just gives the character

a humanity because you realize that he's been loved before and he neglected that too. 100%. And so... That's great. Elliot is an incredible addition.

You're right. Yeah. And I just think that I think every version has people that are sort of nice to him but that does not like... Yeah.

But they're nice to him for their own personal gain because like we were talking about it's like this is how i make my money so you need to get your ass on stage i'm gonna give you the coke to do it the universe they all orbit around exactly yeah elliot an incredible example of just uh award seasons being way too long where everyone was like this guy's gonna cruise all the way to a fucking oscar win And then by the time the show happened, it was like old news. We all got over this five rotations ago.

Who won? I remember looking. Mahershala wins for Green Book. Which is like, it's a lead performance, A, and he just won an Oscar, and it's Green Book. Is that the seniors Richard E. Grant, too? Yes. So you had two guys who've been so good

and so underappreciated for so long. Long-running, great character actors. Perfect supporting actor performances. Yeah. And then Mah for so long. Right, long-running, great character actors. Giving, like, perfect supporting actor performances. Yeah. And then Mahershala, yes, is the lead, and he had just won. Look, it's one of the weirdest Oscars ever. Green Book was a weird Oscar. It was a weird Oscar.

We can't deny it was the best movie ever made. We can't deny the Green Book was the best film ever made. Pizza. Spike Lee is somewhere just cursing. Not my cup of tea. You said it's not his cup of tea. Not my cup of tea. It's one of the funniest things.

Are you British? Are you British? that's what makes it and then him going like he literally dances around like it's so funny what I like this attitude is like I'm not bitter I've done this fucking dance before I know how they work I'm not surprised

I love it it was my cup of tea such a weird Oscars I saw Stars Born at TIFF and was like well yeah and this is gonna be a sensation I love it it wouldn't wake up for days such a weird Oscars you British I saw Stars Born at TIFF and was like well yeah

and this is gonna be a sensation and made a zillion dollars and the Oscars were like I think it's Green Book versus Roma this year I was just like what are you guys doing

but that's the thing the director category was stacked but I do feel like Cooper deserved to be in it yeah but you had McKay for Vice

you had Cuaron for Roma you had McKay for Vice. You had Cuaron for Roma. You had... Oh, my God. Fairley is also not nominated. He's also snubbed.

It's Spike Lee for Black Klansman. Yorgos for The Favorite, which is a fun nom. And Pavel Pawelowski for The Cold War, which is a really nice nom. Yeah, it's an amazing movie.

And he's one of the hottest people I ever interviewed. I fell in love with him when I interviewed him for Ida. So hot. I don't think i've ever seen his wife is rachel i will show you he's very dashing rachel they are a couple that makes you angry yeah when you look at him and his wife together i gotta look at it yeah um but um you know just a weird year a weird year anyway but uh yeah barbara didn't win for this and we will discuss future Oscar snubs Of course, in her career

Oh, he is handsome, sorry Yeah, he's very handsome I don't lie He has a new movie coming, I think Does he? I think he does Doesn't he have a new movie coming out soon-ish? The Island

Right, Joaquin and Rooney are making a movie with him Right But is that the one that got shut down? Yes, but hopefully it can come back. Let's hope so. Did you see that Joaquin finished a movie with Lin-Ramsey? That they quietly just got it done? More like Joaquin finished.

Well, that's what... Didn't Emma Stone do one with Yorgos as well? They did another one or something? They're obsessed with making movies together. Yeah, I love that. Lin-Ramsey goes so long not getting movies made. I know, yeah. That I was just so happy where I'm like, making movies together. Yeah, I love that. I just, when Ramsey goes so long not getting movies made, I know, yeah. That I was just so happy

where I'm like, we got one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got one in the can. But now it's like, what's gonna happen? Let's see what happens. But I just,

I'm happy something has been committed. But I like this like theme of we're just gonna quietly make shit and not tell anybody anything. So good. Because the only reason I knew about the one that just Yeah.

debuted was because I know Nadia Stacey who did the makeup it, because she does makeup for all of Emily's stuff. And it was, I just loved. There's another one. Yeah. Right. Him and Emma Stone did two movies together. They just keep popping out. Yes.

There's another one that still won't come out for who knows how long. Yeah. Rachel, you have nothing to plug because we're currently on strike. You have nothing to plug. This episode will come out in several months if the strike is ended by then I will ask you to send in a voice memo done

it's 2024 post strike Rachel Zegler you can actually get the ballad of songbirds and snakes on demand which is pretty cool it was the number one movie in the world for a couple weekends that was pretty fun it's really good.

This is my dog, Lenny. Do you have any input? Did you hear that? Did you get that, guys? Anyways, I believe it's also still in theaters. So you can see it in theaters. You can see it at home. As long as you see it, you'll see Peter Dinklage, which is pretty cool.

I'm also there. Love you guys. Oh, do you have any resolutions? Do you want to sort of... Oh, yeah. New Year's resolutions. Oh, my God. This is so there. Love you guys. Oh, do you have any resolutions? Do you want to sort of put them out there? Oh my god, this is so funny to record in September. To be like, what are you gonna... I'm just gonna be so... My New Year's

resolution is to not take everything so personally. Because it's just hard right now. But probably to just disappear a bit more. Amen. I'm gonna become more enigmatic in 2024. I don't want people... People know where I live right now,

and that's a problem. It's no good, man. I will say this. Rachel's very chill. She walked in here chill as hell, but she's getting hassled. It's true. You're getting hassled.

And my poor dog is part of it. People give me the business. I don't like it. No, Rachel, I will say genuinely, it's not like I know you tremendously well, but I've known you in this weird way for a couple years now. Yeah, isn't that wild?

We met doing Zooms together during the pandemic before any of your movies had come out. Yeah. But, you know, when I was young, I was friends with a lot of people whose stars took off a lot faster and more aggressively than mine did. Yeah.

And I was like adjacent to a lot of people watching them get pushed through the thing that's happened with you in your career very quickly, deservingly so. Thank you. You have that sort of stress and it's just undeniable kind of thing. Very kind. Thank you. But I have never seen anyone handle it with as much grace that I have had any sort of adjacent view to. You're regular.

As you have. You are so regular. You are an astonishingly regular person for how... Regular as hell. Without being oblivious. Like, that's the other thing. Sure, right.

A lot of people I know who I'm like, how did you remain so normal or somehow have a cognitive dissonance where they're not even thinking about the other shit? It's true. They have some ability to compartmentalize it. Which I kind of, I envy for sure. I do too.

Because I wish I could just not think about the things that are abnormal. But you are so intelligent and knowledgeable about all this stuff and such a student of the history of art and entertainment and everything in a way that should make you collapse under the pressure of everything you're constantly going through.

And I have no idea how you do it, but you're very impressive. Thank you. I appreciate that a lot. Keep being a movie star. If they'll let me, I will. I will be there to star in the movies. Okay.

And I just want to say, Lenny, I think what you do as far as just being a dog is incredible. You're so cute. You sort of seem to smile. Keep doing it like you do. He's nudging the mic. And Ben's known some bad dogs in his day.

Oh, I've known some real bad dogs, but you're one of the top dogs for sure. No poops in the studio. He's licking the mic. Oh, he's doing a yawn on mic. Wow. Baby. He's a good dog.

Good boy, honey. He's a good boy. Thank you for being here, Rachel. Lenny, thank you for being here Rachel Lenny thank you for being here I will always be here as long as you guys want me to come back you're the best

I have so much fun doing this show because I love talking about movies so thank you guys we built an entire career out of it thank you again

for coming yeah of course thanks for letting my dog come too of course not the first dog nope

but Earl beat him he's always welcome Earl Hines Mizlani thank you all for listening I think it's gonna be

a fun little month with Barbara yeah oh it's so fun I can't wait to listen to everybody else's yes hopefully

well next week is Yentl oh yeah we'll see who's this guest we'll see you podcast-al we got someone penciled we got someone penciled hopefully he's coming through

yeah oh I'm gonna ask when we're done yeah but tune in next week for the titular episode podcast-al someone penciled in. We got someone penciled in. Hopefully he's coming through. Yeah. Oh, I'm going to ask when we're done. Yeah. Okay. But tune in next week for the titular episode podcast-al.

Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media and helping to produce this show. Thank you to

JJ Birch for our research, AJ McKeon, Alex Barron for our editing, Joe Bone, Pat Rollins for our artwork, Lane Montgomery and the Great American for our theme. AJ McKee and Alex Barron for our editing. Joe Bone, Pat Rollins for our artwork.

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Excuse me. How dare you? I'm sure it was something great. I can't remember what it was. Neither can I. No idea. Wait, was that when we kicked off with Crocodile Dundee? Oh, fuck.

If we're unlocking Croc Dundee. That's a big deal. That's some of the best shit we've ever done. Yes, it is. Please enjoy for free our Crocodile Dundee episode. We're giving it back to the public. Yes. Probably the best six hours of podcasting.

Be horny for Paul Hogan in the first one. Turn on him so hard in the second one right be fairly defeated by the third one I think we're just kind of like whatever he's in Los Angeles

I order a hotback steakhouse delivery and then it turns out the guy who made my order was a blankie yes was listening to the podcast while he was making it

not that episode he didn't have a live yeah but he messaged me later anyway listen to all that for free and as always very good thank you

Lenny what are you making friends? tongue kissing yeah dogs usually love to lick me so don't be alarmed okay my boyfriend's the same way

we do call him the dog that's David's nickname is that really? David the dog Sims David the dog Sims are you serious? yeah if I'm being silly they say the dog. That's David's nickname. Is that really? David the dog Sims. David the dog Sims. Are you serious? Yeah. If I'm being silly, they say the dog's off the leash.

And he gets really hyped up about it. The dog's off the leash. Well, bark, bark. Yeah, well, Lenny's off leash right now. Yes, you are. You shall too. We've got Mr. Leonard Bernstein in the studio today. Okay.

Are we good to go, Ben? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, ready? Fantastic. Are you going to sing? No. No?

No. I can't sing Fantastic. Are you going to sing? No. No? No. I can't sing in front of you, Rachel. You did for the cabaret episode. I know. I mean, it is Chris Christopherson. He's not... Yeah, you can kind of growl. He's not very, you know...

Yeah, yeah. He's not known for his voice. Okay. Well... But as somebody who did get famous because I sang a song from the 2018 The Star is Born, I'm expecting something here. Okay. Ben, all of this, put this at the end of the episode.

Great. Okay. This is the bonus leading up to what people will have heard as the opening. Okay. Ready? All right. Okay.