Blank Check with Griffin & David - After Earth with James III

Episode Date: March 25, 2016

James III (Black Men Can’t Jump In Hollywood Podcast) joins Griffin and David to discuss the incredibly dull, thinly veiled Scientology sci-fi, 2013’s After Earth. Beyond starring along side his son Jaden and being credited as a producer and original story writer, how else did Will Smith play a role in the making of this film? Does the timing of After Earth’s release have anything to do with Jaden’s emancipation from his parents? Is it possible for M. Night to ever work again after 5 sequential critical and commercial failures? Together they examine Will’s illustrious career up to After Earth, the development of Jaden’s stardom, having emotion, giving your monsters the ability to see and the duality of what is happening in this movie is happening in real life.

Danger is real. Podcasting's a choice. Very good. Thank you. This is the first one you've been proud of. I liked it. In a long time. Hi, everybody. I'm Griffin Newman.

I'm David Sims. This is Griffin and David. You did it wrong. This is Blank Check. That was our old name. I force a habit. This is Blank Check Podcast. With Griffin and David.

Sure. The Blank Check Podcast. We go through filmographies of directors. Yeah, who are crazy. And often people who had big success early on and now get a blank check to do whatever they want. Perfect. Film after film after film. Especially with this guy.

Especially this guy. Film after film after film after film after film. This guy is M. Night Shyamalan. Yep. And this is a miniseries called Pod Night Shyamalan. Great. Got through it all very quickly today. And we have a guest. And we have a guest!

Oh my god. Our guest. I'm so excited. We talked about how we're trying to create collections with our guests. Oh yeah, sure. Right? Sure, sure. There's certain pools of people that we respect. It's like we're playing bingo. We're playing bingo. We're trying to get the certain lines through. My favorite podcast, which we've referenced a lot on this show,

Black Men Can't Jump in Hollywood. Great podcast. I recommend to anyone who's not already listening to it. We had John Braylock on our- Great episode. Revenge of the Podcast. Yeah, on the Clone Wars episode. Yes.

On the Tartatox. Yeah, it was a great episode. Back when we were a Star Wars podcast. And now we have our second host of that show. We have two out of the three. We got one more to go, but this is James III. Hello. Comedian, actor, extraordinaire.

Yes. Podcast co-host James III. Who made a brief appearance on my live show. Am I wrong? Yes, I was there. Technically returning guest. You know him. At this point, you're comfortable. Everybody knows who I am. You watch that live show. You know him.

Everyone knows me now. Now, this was the second we decided we were going to do M. Night Shyamalan. Mm-hmm. And we went through. Yeah, no, the second we were talking about it, you were like, oh, I know who we need for after. A hundred percent.

Yeah. Because, James, you're a big Will Smith fan. I'm a huge Will Smith fan. Your podcast is about leading black men in major Hollywood films. That's right. And so Will Smith becomes, I mean, he's sort of- We bring him up a lot. He's the large figure.

Comes up a lot. Right, because for people of our generation- For the last 20 years. He was the guy. Yeah. He was the guy. And you talk about sort of how to a detriment, he got so big that everyone went like, oh, we got one black guy in movies, we don't need other people.

We don't need anybody else. Right. Possibly the most bankable, at least for 15 years. For a good chunk of time. I think there was a solid five year period where he was uncontested the number one biggest star years. For a good chunk of time. I think there was a solid five-year period where he was uncontested the number one biggest star alive. For sure. There were times where he was hovering.

I think it's longer. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Keep going. I think there was a five-year period where it was like guaranteed. You knew he was going to knock it out of the park. It doesn't matter what he makes. I think Ollie was his last flop.

Ollie's not a flop. Financially, it didn't do well. That was an expensive movie. I love that movie. That was an expensive movie. It didn't matter what he makes. I think Ollie was his last flop. Ollie's not a flop. Financially, it didn't do well. That was an expensive movie. I love that movie. That was an expensive movie. It didn't do well. But year after that, he does Men in Black 2, and he doesn't have a flop until Seven Pounds, which wasn't a huge flop.

I see Seven Pounds as the end of Will Smith. It's like, if he makes a movie, people went to see it. Yeah, that was the end of it. Oh, yeah, that was for sure. That movie was just too fucking weird for everybody to be like, i gotta go see the jellyfish bathtub movie yeah but that's like and it even did better than anyone else in the jellyfish bathtub movie would have done on box office mojo in the category jelly jellyfish in a bathtub it is number one and even if you adjust for inflation it's still number one it is is, yeah. But 2002 to 2008, I would

say, uncontested. For sure. Like six years. Will Smith. He was the guy. No question. And before that, I mean, he'd already made Independence Day. I would say 96 to, yeah, that's the thing. I would say. I mean, yeah, it's like, it's closely tied to like Fresh Prince also still being on the air kind of thing.

Like, there's like an overlap there. Of like when he was. Right. He was the TV star of our childhood. Yes. This is what I view as the arc. I view, okay, so it's like recording career, Fresh Prince, right? Then he starts doing small roles in like Made in America

and Six Degrees of Separation. Everyone's like, oh, Will Smith, good movie star, right? Then Bad Boys happens, right? And this is all sort of like, he hasn't missed at this point. So then you go like Bad Boys, Independence Day. No, then it's Bad Boys, then Independence Day is like the most

successful film ever made. It's a big jump. I was doing that with my hands. I wasn't doing that with my hands. I realized it's an audio medium. And then after that, it's except for like a couple, you know, he's got like Bagger Vance in there or whatever. This is my point.

You go like Independence Day, humongous. Men in Black, humongous. Humongous, right? Then Enemy of the State does really fucking well. For a crappy R-rated movie, it's an okay movie. And then Wild Wild West is like a disaster, but everyone goes to see it. But it makes a lot of money. But everyone hates it, right?

And it is number one in the giant spider category. That is true. Giant mechanical spider and villain without a dick who only makes dick jokes, whose characterization is solely based around his lack of a penis and him building facimal penises out of steampunk elements. But see, I'd say that's like period one where it's like this guy only makes mega, mega movies, right?

Yeah. And then he has a couple flops in a row. Yeah. Right? Then he does like Bagger Vance. He makes a couple dramas in a row that don't really connect in the same way. Maybe he gets an Oscar nomination.

Yeah. By the way, guys, this is going to be kind of a Will Smith mini episode of this podcast. This isn't a Will Smith movie. This is an M. Night movie. He's the dominant auteur of this podcast. This is a Will Smith movie. This is an M. Night He's the dominant auteur of this film. So he like comes back

and then when he comes back in 2002 he does Men in Black 2. Then he does Bad Boys 2 and then it's just like hit hit hit hit. Robot hit. Robot's in there.

Pursuit of Happiness makes a ton of money. That's the thing I was going to say. And then I Am Legend which is his second most successful film. Yes.

After Independence Day. And he's awesome. I love I Am Legend. Yeah. his second most successful film after Independence Day. And it's awesome. I love I Am Legend. Yeah, I like it too. I heard it was bad though. No, it's good. Okay, see. It's good.

We like I Am Legend. CGI is bad. You're in a safe space, James. Okay, good, okay. I Am Legend's really good. I really like I Am Legend. I like it a lot. I'll say,

I think the moment where he has to kill the dog is the single best acting moment of his entire career. I mean, it doesn't, like, a dead dog is like the ultimate, I feel like, that's like a trump card you can play for, like,

a big emotion, but it's great. Sure, but that scene is nonverbal, close-up of his face. No, he should have been Oscar nominated for it, I imagine. And it's like, there's no other movie star who could pull that off. No. But I think Pursuit of Happiness is the one that I think really shows what level he was at.

Because, like, you go, Ali, well, it was a drama. It did all right for what it was. He got an Oscar nomination. No one expected to play like a blockbuster. And then Pursuit of Happiness played like a fucking blockbuster. Oh, yeah. I mean, $160 million domestic. Right.

So at that point, it was like, oh, he works in any genre. Hitch was humongous. Yeah. And it was like, he can do romantic comedy. He can do a drama. He can do a sci-fi. Whatever he does, it's going to be

a huge blockbuster. Then Seven Pounds happened. Well, then Hancock. What happened to Hancock? Yeah, I mean, there are other films in between. But that's the same year, though.

It's like Hancock happens. Yes. And it's like, it makes a lot of money, but people are like, this is the worst. And you and I are on the same page

about Hancock, which is that it's low-key kind of cool. Yeah, it's got an ear. Wait, I'm on that page too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then Seven Pounds comes out and like that same year and it's like, oh no. You know what I mean?

Like it's just like, oh, we just saw two bad movies in a year, you know, like, and so people. So what does he do? He doesn't make a film for four years. Four years he's off the screen. Now, just to contextualize this a little bit. This is true. On your podcast, I'd say, what episode are you up to now? Oh, God, I don't know.

I just had an episode on the Rundown. We just talked about Men in Black. That's your most recent episode. We just talked about Men in Black. Which I highly recommend from South by Southwest. Oh, yes. The first two-thirds, I'd say, of your run so far. You would, at the end of every episode.

Yes, I would bring up the movie Hancock and ask if it's good. Braylock would say, I think anything else, anything else. And you would present it as if it was a serious question about the film. And then it would just be about Hancock. Yes. Then you finally covered Hancock. Right. You did a live show.

You covered Hancock. So now I'm asking about After Earth. Right. Is After Earth a good movie? I'm asking about After Earth. Right. Is After Earth a good movie? Yeah. But is After Earth a good movie though? So when. That is my girlfriend who listens to this podcast listens to James's podcast.

That's the only thing she knows about After Earth. When I said we're doing an After Earth episode she was like oh they keep talking about it on Catch Up in Hollywood. Anyway. So yeah. When we wrote out the list we wrote down all the Shyamalan movies and we said who would be good guests for these. Oh. Right. It was like immediate. No question. No but I think we're all tying everything together. Anyway. So yeah, when we wrote out the list, we wrote down all the Shyamalan movies and we said, who would be a good guest for these? It was like immediate, no question.

No, but I think we're all tying everything together. We're telling a couple stories concurrently in an efficient manner. So you were the immediate choice. Now this film, to contextualize the movie a little bit,

so it's been four years, Will Smith's off the screen. Then he comes back and he does Men in Black 3. Yeah. Which was very safe. Yes. Right?

It's a super safe movie to make because everyone knows the product they know that it's done well in the past but it's also like it's really weird what they choose to do with Men in Black 3 it is and it doesn't make enough money in this country it makes tons of money worldwide because he's a big worldwide star

and also do you remember his giant trailer that was like parked in Soho that was the best it's a big worldwide star. Yeah, well, two things. And also, do you remember his giant trailer that was parked in Soho? Yes. That was the best. We need to talk about that a little bit. It's so big. But when he does the Bagger Vance Ali run, right, which is after Wild Wild West,

which I think he felt a little burned by, right? So he goes into dramas. And he's publicly said, like, fuck, I hate Wild Wild West. That sucked. So his response to that was, I'm not going to do another big blockbuster. I'm going to make two dramas,

and then I'm going to go back to safe territory. He made two sequels in a row. He made Men in Black 2 and Bad Boys 2. And it was like, okay, I got the public. This is a zone I know they're comfortable with me in. I'm back on solid footing. Now I can take more chances again. Same thing happened after Seven Pounds.

He's like, I got to go back to a comfort zone. Four years off, largely developing Jaden's career. Yeah. So he develops two projects at Sony. He goes, I want to make franchises for both my kids. Buys the rights to Karate Kid. Yeah. Remakes it with his son Jaden, even though the film is humongous hit.

Huge hit. People don't talk about this enough. The Karate Kid was humongous. And that is the number one movie in the box office mojo category of older Asian man rubs jelly into a young black boy's chest. Oh, number one. Number one. That's great. I remember I haven't ever seen The Karate Kid totally, but I was watching it on TV. It was like on TV, on FX or whatever while I was doing it.

I looked up and Jackie Chan was just rubbing like oils into Jaden Smith's chest, his bare chest. That's all I know about that movie. $175 million domestic. Huge over... That bare chest. That's all I know about that movie. $175 million domestic. Huge over... That's insane. $360 million worldwide. And I didn't see it. Oh, okay.

It's not the best. I think it's fine. It's fine. I think it's totally fine. It's what it should be. I wanted to... I'll say this. I think Jackie Chan's great in it.

Jackie Chan is... He's a pro. He's a pro, but he's got a couple dramatic scenes he really nails. And Jaden is like... Jaden's fine. He's like a but he's got a couple dramatic scenes he really nails and Jaden is like Jaden's fine he's like a cute kid

he holds the screen well it's a lot of that but he's still that's the thing he's the last pre-puberty performance and he's great

I think he's very cute in Pursuit of Happiness although I mean he's basically just playing his dad's kid but he's really cute and it's you know

it's nice to see a movie he's really little in that one he's like 8 it's nice to see a movie where... He's really little in that one, though. Yeah. He's like eight. Yeah. It's nice to see a movie where, A, the father and son actually look similar.

Yeah, absolutely. Because rarely we get family casting that looks similar and it adds a lot of emotional weight when it's like, oh, I believe they're family. Right. Because they actually

are father and son. But also, they're clearly so comfortable with each other, they're actually fathers. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah, I should say, we're going to go

into spoiler territory. Jaden Smith is Will Smith's son. Whoa. We're going to have to cover that on the podcast. Oh, gosh. Okay should say that we're going to go into spoiler territory. Jaden Smith is Will Smith's son. Whoa. We're going to have to cover that on the podcast. Oh, gosh, okay. Okay. All right. And, you know, the emotions of the scenes are immediate

because it's like an actor he feels comfortable with because it's his papa. Absolutely. I think he does The Day the Earth Stood Still. Jaden, yeah, absolutely, right. Maybe one other movie without Will? Maybe not. No. Okay. No, it's Yes. Absolutely, right. Which I saw. Maybe one other movie without Will? Maybe not. No.

Okay. No, it's Pursuit of Happiness. Day of the Earth still is two years after that. Karate Kid's two years after that. Right. And Karate Kid, I think- And then now this, and then now after. And this, and that's that.

And then he's done. Yeah. I think he might be retired from the movie. He might. But the Karate Kid, everyone was like, oh, it might do all right. It did like 50 million opening weekend. Huge, yeah. And then like multiplied better than its opening weekend. It did like 50 million opening weekend. Huge, yeah. And then like multiplied better than its opening weekend.

It played to a young market and they liked it. Yeah, but I think also the nostalgia thing. I think people liked the original film. Jackie Chan. Big gripe of mine, if I can just sidebar for one second here. The film has no karate in it. What? It's exclusively about Kung Fu.

And it's set in China. It's set in China. Yeah. And throughout the movie, they go like, I'm going to teach you Kung Fu. I about Kung Fu. And it's set in China. It's set in China. Yeah. And throughout the movie, they go like, I'm going to teach you Kung Fu. I know Kung Fu. Kung Fu competition. They never say the word karate. Karate is a Japanese sport.

Yeah, of course it is. Of course it is. But I know they're like, well, we paid all this money for the Karate Kid. Why wouldn't we use the title? Because I don't know. It's not about karate. Call it the Kung Fu Kid. People will get it.

We'll know what you're talking about. And then also in that zone I think look obviously whatever they did worked for them because it made hand over fist but I just feel like if you call it the Kung Fu Kid people go oh it's not even really a remake it's like a spiritual

whole other thing in line with it. It's a parallel story. It should be called the fucking Kung Fu Kid. Also, Kung Fu Panda 2 should have been called Kung Tu Panda. This is one of my biggest gripes in history. But I mean. I'm enraged when I think about it. Yeah.

No, that's good. I agree with you. Kung Tu Panda. Yeah. The lady I'm dating, the other night she asked me, she was like, do you ever get mad? And I was like, oh yeah, I'm a very angry person. And she's like, I don't see it. And I was like, I mostly get like angry about movies and stuff, like on my podcast and stuff. You don't see it. And she's like, what's something you get get mad? And I was like, oh yeah, I'm a very angry person. And she's like, I don't see it. And I was like,

I mostly get like angry about movies and stuff, like on my podcast and stuff you don't see. And she's like, like what's something you get angry about? And the first thing I thought of was like,

they didn't call it fucking Kung Tu Panda. That was the first thing I thought of. I'm annoyed about Now You See Me Too. I'm really annoyed about that. Yeah, that one drives me crazy.

That should be called Now You Don't. Yeah. That's what it should be called. Now You Don't. Yeah. How you call it Now You See Me Too?

You know what? I would even settle for Now You See Me Too colon Now you don't. Yeah. That's what it should be called. Now you don't. How you call it? Now you see me too. You know what? I would even settle for now you see me too, colon, now you don't. Yeah. That would, like. I would settle for that. I know. That would be hilarious. Also, is it now you see me too, T-O-O?

No. And that would be better. That would be better. That would be better. That would be better. It's just a fucking number two. Here's another one. And this is a bit of a reach, because the other ones we're saying

are so obvious. They obviously, it should have been Kung Fu Kid, Kung Fu Panda, now you don't. No question, everyone agrees on those three. Here's one that's a little more of a reach. Scooby-Doo 2, Monsters Unleashed. I really wish it was called Scooby-Doo. Oh. Yeah.

No, I would be on board with that. I mean, that'd be fun, right? That'd be fun. Scooby-Doo would be fun. Okay, anyway, we would be on board with that. I mean, that'd be fun, right? That'd be fun. Scooby-Doo would be fun. Okay, anyway, we're talking about After Earth today. You can just call it Scooby-Doo. Scooby-Doo. Yeah, but I like Scooby-Doo because it's funnier.

Yeah. No, I mean, yeah. That's fine. Okay, so After Earth. Jane Smith, right. Will Smith is like, I'm going to make my kids movie stars now. Right, but yeah, he made Men in Black 3. It was what it was.

But this is in the time in between. In the time in between Seven Pounds and Men in Black 3. It was what it was. But this is in the time in between. In the time in between Seven Pounds and Men in Black 3, he makes, he produces. He makes Jane a star. And he. He buys the rights

to Annie for Willow. And that's, they're going to do that. And then she doesn't want to be in it. She decides she doesn't want to be in movies. Right.

Conventiony Wallace. Yes. But so then he comes back to the big screen. Men in Black 3 makes a ton of money. I don't know if you guys know this,

but like there was this thing where the New York tax incentive for film production was going to expire at the end of that calendar year. It was up for re-evaluation. And the thought was they're going to vote it down and the tax break is going to be smaller than it has been in the past.

Bloomberg had encouraged a lot of film production in this city. So whatever year it was, I think 2011, right? It was like December 2011 or 2010 or whatever. And they had like a Men in Black 3 script, but they weren't really happy with it. Will Smith was like not, he was like, this is an unworkable shape to start filming. But they knew they had, okay, it starts out present. They go to the 60s.

We have Josh Brolin cast. That's the basic premise of the movie. And they went, what if we just shoot the first act of the film? The stuff with Tommy Lee Jones, he has a schedule in conflict. If we start the production within 2011 or 2010, whatever year it was, we'll get the tax break, we shoot that, then we shut down production for two months, work on the script, and then come back and shoot the other stuff.

So they were like, let's lock down a first act that we can't change before we have the second and third acts written. The rest of the movie. A really complicated time travel centric, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So they do that. Then they shut down production for two months to work on the script and two months later, Sony's like, okay,

we'll, you know, timer's up, we gotta film the movie. And he was like, I don't think the script and two months later sony's like okay uh will uh you know timer's up we gotta film the movie and he was like i don't think the script's ready and he had ultimate say and they couldn't start the movie so for like two more months will smith had eight writers working simultaneously to try to crack the second and third acts of the movie and they were paying the crew and the cast to not work they had them on hold and That's why the movie cost like $250 million. Yeah, it cost an insane amount of money

and then there was the shit Aren't we doing an After Earth episode? But I think all this is important. Oh yeah. Then there's the shit with the trailer.

Yeah. Where he had a trailer that was like a city block wide and these people like complained and had it towed. Right. It just has, there's a lot of negative energy

aimed at Will Smith. Yes. Right. A guy who at this point had been like uncontested America Will Smith. Yes. Right. A guy who at this point had been like uncontested America's favorite. Yeah.

Like everyone loved him. You know and even people who weren't like huge Will Smith fans were like that guy's charming. Yeah. Or they were like

he's in some good movies. Like you couldn't find someone who was like fuck Will Smith. Sure. You could not find someone who said that. And now there's starting

to be a fuck Will Smith thing. It's like why is he pushing his kids so hard. Yeah the kid thing there was a lot of the Scientology talk was starting to happen. Then there's starting to be a fuck Will Smith thing. It's like, why is he pushing his kids so hard? Yeah, the kid thing, there was a lot of the Scientology talk was starting to happen. Then there's the Scientology thing happening. Right.

And so he starts hanging out with Tom Cruise a lot. Then all of a sudden, like Scientology principals start floating around in conversations, interviews and stuff. And when asked point blank,

he's like, look, I'm a student of all religions. Which he'd always said, like, because he is this guy who by all accounts is sort of like an omnivore for knowledge. Yeah. Like he's just fucking studying everything all the time will

smith wants to be like galactus like he wants to like absorb everything be the most physically fit and know everything in the world so like as far back as like 2000 i remember reading interviews with him where he was like i find these principles of the jewish faith interesting i read about this in buddhism you know I don't practice anything that specifically, but I like this sort of thing. Sure, but he's donating to Scientology. Now he's donating to Scientology. And that school, he opens that school.

He opens a school. He opens a charter school or something, yeah. And they're all using study technology, which is something that L. Ron Hubbard pushed, right? Yeah. And Scientology just, you know, a basic thing, it's like a pyramid scheme disguised as a religion created by a sci-fi writer,

but the core of it is this set of psychological principles, right? It's like a pyramid scheme disguised as a religion created by a sci-fi writer. But the core of it is this set of psychological principles, right, that he had submitted to like psychiatric journals. And he was like, I think I figured out a good way to make the mind work. And everyone's like, you write dime store novels. Go eat a turd, Elrond. And he turned it into a religion. Dianetics is the core of those principles. Because that's an important glossary to establish because we're going to be talking about Dianetics a lot in this episode.

A lot. So, yeah. Man in Black 3, there's some weird mojo going on. The movie comes out. Kind of a mad response. Some people like it. Some people hate it. Does well, but costs way too much.

But now he's back, right? He's back on screen. What's he going to do? Jaden has a huge hit under his belt. M. Night meanwhile, this exact same time, is coming off of Last Airbender. Which also made a tremendous amount of money. And some money. But was hated by

everyone. Everyone hates it. Swept the Razzies. And the three movies before that, people also hate it. Yeah. So M. Night's at this real, like, nadir. Yeah. Where like, on one hand, he's still kinda bankable because his movies haven't lost money that much like other than lady in the water right on the other hand it's very clear the bloom is off the rose yeah and like he's starting to become a bigger deterrent

and i you know i said this in that interview we did with pasquestro reed but i remember the moment where i saw the Lady in the Water trailer in theaters and the trailer came out there was only ever one trailer it was a teaser it had an El Divo song it was all images

Paul Giamatti under a sink whatever the audience was like what the fuck is it like I saw the opening night of some movie it was like sold out and then M. Night

Shyamalan came on the screen it said a bedtime story by M. Night Shyamalan and I heard the entire crowd go oh yeah

and suddenly everyone like they want to see like they're like oh I'm interested in that I thought that looked stupid but, oh. Yeah. And suddenly everyone They want to see it. They're like, oh, I'm interested in that. I thought that looked stupid but if M. Night's doing it, something weird's going on.

Yeah. Well, things have changed. 2010, I see the trailer for Devil and it's a movie about Satan in an elevator. Yes. Right.

And the trailer's coming up and people are like, oh, okay. Elevator, creepy. Looks like a good little B-thriller, whatever it is. And then it goes

from producer M. Night Shyamalan and everyone laughed. Yeah. And I was in a theater, everyone groaned. Yeah. Like, loud groans. And I don't know a single person who saw that trailer in theaters in a packed house who didn't hear either a groan or a laugh.

And it was like, okay, within four years that shift happened, where now his name is an immediate deterrent yeah and even they pushed him hard on last airbender like it was an amnit shumlin film he was out there doing press like he was doing fucking kids choice awards and stuff you know and then like this movie will smith comes to him right will smith like jayden had a big hit on his own i'm ready to take jayden to the next level. And I saw that TV show I Shouldn't Be Alive. Right.

So the story is that Will Smith sees an episode of I Shouldn't Be Alive and has this idea of like, you know what would be a good I'm trying to find a movie for me and Jaden together where I can like pass the torch to him. You know, put Jaden in like a big movie. And he had this idea of like, that's a really interesting concept

for a movie, which is he saw this idea of like that's a really interesting concept for a movie which is he saw some story you know that he jumped off from of like a father and a son who get in a car crash and the father is like debilitated. In like the mountains.

Yeah. Yeah. And the son has to go out on his own and find help to rescue the father. Yeah. I agree.

I think that is a good idea. Yeah that's a cool idea. It's fine. I mean it's a good idea for like a sparse it's a starting point it's a jumping off spot yeah but you go okay father son relationship emotionally like that's deep right

like father son movies almost always work if you invest that that's a good starting point for an emotional bit there's a lot of movies about father son stuff put it that way a lot yeah and I'll say there are a lot of father-son movies that I think are shitty but they still get to me. Do you know what I'm saying?

Like, I'm angry that I'm getting worked up. I didn't even know that I liked father-son movies until Netflix recommended a category to me, father-son emotional dramas.

Yeah. And I was like, oh wait, oh yeah, all these movies that I love are father-son movies. So he has that starting point of an idea,

and he brings it to some writers. And then at one point, he goes like, wait, I think this idea, the core of this idea could be a lot bigger. What if we make this a sci-fi thing? Get this writer, Gary Whitta, who had written the book of Eli at that point. He had, yeah. And I think he comes in with the other half of this idea,

which is Earth a thousand years after we've left. Yeah. And it's now uninhabitable. And in fact, it's a hostile environment. And so what if you do that idea, the son has to rescue the father, the father's stuck, the son has to come into his own, which is very metatextual of like, I'm gonna literally

let my son become the hero of the movie. I'm gonna be stuck under a rock, and my son has to become the leading man. It was going to be called 1000 A.E. And then he went to M. Night. He went to M. Night and he apparently had always

been wanting to make a film with M. Night. M. Night had a film that he was close to making. You know who's going to be in it? It was, I know, Gwyneth Paltrow. Bruce Willis. And fucking Bradley Cooper. I feel like I remember that. What was that movie? It was like, we don't know. It was, I know, Gwyneth Paltrow, Bruce Willis, and fucking Bradley Cooper. I feel like I remember that. What was that movie? It was a secret movie that we've never known about.

But he had those four people, and this is like big Bradley Cooper, he had those four people locked in to do it, and I think the bloom's off the rose, the nature of the conversation, we don't know, and we will never know. But I imagine what happened was... Will was like, make this for me, and we will never know. But I imagine what happened was...

Will was like, make this for me, and then maybe we can make that. Was like, you're in a bad place right now. This is going to be an automatic hit. If you direct this, you'll get your clout back. Right. But so, of course, it's Shyamalan. What does he have to do? Film Philadelphia?

He has to write it. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So he wrote, you know, he took the second pass of the script. He did a rewrite. Yeah. But, yeah. He took the second pass of the script. He did a rewrite. He's credited. Yeah.

But it was the first thing that he didn't develop. It's the first movie that he came on. It wasn't his idea. Yes, exactly. Yeah, and Will Smith was going to be in a Katrina movie and he had to pull out of that. American Can, which sounded very interesting, and then he tried to get Denzel Washington to take over it,

and then it just never got made. And indeed, yes, this movie was half shot in Philadelphia, half shot in Costa Rica and Utah, like cool places like that for the alien landscapes. What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? I'm pulling up something. He's got a stupid Amazon x-ray thing. Amazon x-ray. By the way, I'm now

an Amazon employee, so please rent all your movies on Amazon and use that Amazon x-ray. That was how I watched this? Yeah, I watched it on iTunes. Go Apple. Well, eat a turd producer co-writer Will Smith

envisioned After Earth as a multi-platform franchise including books graphic novels and interactive video games which would all inform they say that about everything these days

but they did release like four paperback novels of the extended universe oh really yeah I mean I would be I would read that I didn't know that happened so I didn't read any of that, but I would read that stuff.

Sure. There are, what does it say here? There are a couple books. There's a series of spinoff novels subtitled Ghost Stories have been planned. They weren't released. Then there was a Bible. There was a Katai's Journal. There are books you can find.

Oh, man. I got it. Let's get to the movie. Well, I just want, I have two additional things I need to think about. God damn it, Griffin. Original screenplay was written by Gary Whitta based on an idea by Will Smith M. Night Shyamalan did a few drafts of the story and Will Smith by the way has story by Will Smith

credit on this one the other two people they had rewrite the film were Stephen Gagin Academy Award winner for Traffic and Mark Boll Academy Award winner for The Hurt Locker. For The Hurt Locker, yeah.

And Amit Shyamalan, Academy Award nominee. So you have like... But Gagan and Mark Boll are guys who rewrite everything. Like, you know, they, I mean, who knows what they do.

Yeah. Oh, the two After Earth books are called After Earth United Ranger Corps Survival Manual. Oh. That's a fake manual for the core.

I want this book. After Earth Katai's Journal. Where's the other part of this? First of all, when did he have time to write the journal? That's true. Is it just him being like, you know, tough day at school today? Is it pre? Is it an early journal?

This is the last true effect I want to read. And this one I think is important. Who knows how real this is. But this knocked me back. And it's not surprising, but to hear this stated so bluntly and confidently. What? Although not credited on the finished film,

co-writer-producer Will Smith was responsible for much of the movie's direction. While M. Night Shyamalan was primarily in charge of the blocking, composition of shots, placement of the camera,

and the visual aspects of the film, color and design, it was Will Smith who personally coached Jaden Smith in his performance, dictated the development of the camera and the visual aspects of the film color and design it was Will Smith who personally coached Jaden Smith in his performance dictated the development of the story

and on screen action after both the story and acting were heavily criticized Shyamalan decided to take the blame what's the sourcing for that though

who knows that's what I'm saying the source on this one is IMDB trivia IMDB trivia I want to make this clear because we now cite them a lot IMDB trivia

is literally sourceless and anyone can add to it. Oh, it's a scum of- There is no way to back it up. A hive of scum and villainy. Exactly. But I do think there's probably something to the idea, at least, that Will had a heavy

investment in his son's performance. I think he's the dominant voice of this film. I think he's the auteur. So let's get into the movie now that we've set the stage. Great. Bad movie. Two stars. Kind of like it. set the stage. Great. Bad movie. Two stars. Kind of like it. Yeah. I don't hate this movie. I feel the same way.

It's probably the best movie Shyamalan had made in quite a long, since like The Village, I would say. In terms of like, you know, it has like a story with like a beginning and an end. Yeah. You know, it moves okay. It's a little boring, but it's, you know, it's got a little suspense. It's got a little bit of fun. Looks okay.

I was like, watching it again, I was trying to find stuff to not like about it, because I know everyone doesn't like this movie. But it was hard. I could find some at the beginning, and then after a while, I was like, I can't find anything anymore. You know, I had to watch.

I'm kind of with you, James. I think this movie is kind of boring. That's as big as had to watch. It was great. I'm kind of with you, James. I think this movie is kind of boring. Like I think that's as big as slight is it's like a little, it's a little inert. Yeah. A little inert?

But I don't, it's very inert. But it's not like, I don't find that many things in the film that are like egregiously bad. Yeah. Like there are a few moments

where I'm like, this is terrible. I'm just like, this is less engaging than it should or could be. It's low key mediocre to bad. It's a kind of, it's a kind than it should be. It's low-key mediocre. To bad.

It's a kind of good movie. I feel like that's another way of saying kind of good. This is going to be a battle episode, I think. I can't go on. This is not kind of good. You can't give it a C+. Ben, help me out here. What would you give it? I'm so upset right now hearing this.

Guys, this movie fucking sucks. Okay. All right. Okay, Ben. But let's create some context. The voice you're hearing right now is our producer. Yeah, that's me. Producer Ben, a.k.a. the Ben-ducer.

What's up? A.k.a. Produer Ben. You know me. A.k.a. the Poet Laureate. A.k.a. Mr. Positive. Oh, God. A.k.a. the Haas. All right, speed it up.

A.k.a. Birthday Benny. Nope, it's not my birthday. We never call him Professor Crispy. Don't you dare! Professor Ben Kenobi, producer Ben Kenobi. Oh my god. We call him Kylo Ben. You didn't take the volume down on this. But here's another thing we call him.

The tiebreaker. Now what happens if the tiebreaker is part of the tie? Yeah, when he makes it the tie.. Now, what happens if the tiebreaker is part of the tie? He's part of the tie. Yeah, when he makes it the tie. That's a tough call. I don't know. We got to say hello, Fennel, for now and keep the argument going.

That's right. Let's start with the beginning of this movie. Because I think this is the worst part of the film. I want to start at the beginning. I think the beginning is the worst part. I agree. Worst part. Where they're just like, okay, so we left Earth and then we went to another planet, but there are monsters and they can smell fear.

And so we have ghosts who can kill the monsters because they have no fear. Got that? Great. Like, that's the beginning of the movie. This is also exactly how The Last Airbender starts. It's true. The Last Airbender starts. It's like, yo, let me catch you up.

Okay, all right. It starts with a little girl who shouldn't be the lead of a movie in terms of ability and charisma. Right. Doing a very, very dry voiceover narration about like, 4,000 years ago, four tribes existed. And it's just this montage of scenes that you're like, can I see that? Yeah. I wouldn't even hate this part so much if the moment that they weren't choosing to show

from later in the movie was the part where he's paralyzed. It's like, is he, is he thinking this right now? Am I supposed to believe that at this moment he's thinking this? Do you know what the opening of this movie should be? They say in the narration, Will Smith taking out an Ursa or whatever.

They say like my, my father, general cipher rage, which we'll spend an hour talking about that. No, we won't. But they, they like, my father, General Cypher Rage, was the

proudest of them all. He had no fear. The lack of fear makes you a ghost. Yeah, what even is it? What is the accent supposed to be? It sounds a little like Catherine Hepburn. Sure. They all are like, ah, listen to me. Like an American received pronunciation.

But I think it's supposed to be some sort of pan-global accent, right? Like they're aiming for no accent in particular. But everyone's is different, though. Everyone's is different. Everyone has a different one, which is weird. That doesn't make sense. No one's is quite right. Everyone's got an accent where you're like, wait, what?

Who's this person? But when we say everyone, they're the four members of the family in this film, right? There's Will and Jaden. And then there is Sophie Okonedu and- Who plays his wife, yeah. Yes, and Zoe Kravitz plays the dead daughter. Yes. Which I, just quick faint praise award if I can hand it out.

All well cast in terms of resemblance. And Kravitz and Okonedu are one of the best mother-daughter on screen. They look identical. There's a shot they're in together where it's like the only difference between their two faces is the little bit of Will Smith you need to put in. Like it's such good casting.

Yeah, it is. They have nothing to do in the film. Nope. Not at all. But they look incredible next to each other. So the four of them all seem like they're sort of trying to do the same accent. This like combination of Katharine Hepburn

and the Canadians from South Park, right? They're like, you're my buddy guy, you're my guy buddy. They're all sort of doing that. I feel like every other character you meet in the film isn't doing an accent. Like the pilots, the other corps, the rangers.

The guy who is missing a leg. Oh, yeah. He's just- Stand me up. Stand me up, sir. Yeah, he has an American accent. Very American.

No, but you also have Christopher, I don't know how you pronounce his name, but he now is in Game of Thrones as Tormund Giantsbane. Okay. And he plays the guy who, he's like where the Earth is chained up in the ship. Oh yeah. And he's like to Jaden like do you want to see it and stuff. Okay. He's like Swedish. Yeah. And he's using his Swedish accent. Right. And like Chris Gere from You're the Worst, I mentioned him. He's one of the pilots.

He's English, he's an English accent. Like everyone's just doing whatever they do. Yeah, I do think the idea was like oh all of Earth, it's one accent now for everybody but we all speak in English. But it's also like, the four of them seem to be the only ones really committing to making some new accent as opposed to

other people using their own accent. And it's like, from the get-go, you're like, they shouldn't have put this on this kid. No, it's hurting his performance so much. He's a very natural performer in Pursuit of Happiness, in Karate Kid, and he's like so stilted and stiff and bad in this movie.

I mean, to me, that's the main reason the movie's bad. He's 70% of the movie. A hundred percent. But then you also kind of feel like that's part of how he's direct. Yeah, totally. Kind of like the future, the weird, like trying to separate yourself from fear. Absolutely.

It's kind of what leads to that sort of stilted performance. Right, he's supposed to be playing someone who's trying to, you know, almost like Spock-like, right? Be entirely without emotion. Well, okay, and this gets in the Dianetics thing, which is the core of Dianetics as a psychological principle is that human beings are weighed down by past trauma and regrets and their memories and stuff like that.

And the thing that Dianetics aims to do is remove those things from your mind. And they claim that if you do that, you go clear. Scientology is a religion based on those principles and an active process to try to help people go clear. If you go clear, they say you can accomplish anything. You just become so focused and so productive. This was the premise of Matt Patches' piece. Have you read that piece?

No. Matt Patches, past guest on this show that piece? No. Matt Patches, past guest on the show, wrote a whole piece about how, like, this is a Scientology movie and Cypher Rage is, like, clear,

theta clear. Yeah. He's, like, the ultimate stage of science. That's the reading you could make of this movie. Yeah. And that's why they say,

like, you know, I mean, there are many reasons why they try to recruit movie stars, but one of them is that, like, for actors,

it's very appealing if you go, like, hey, we can, like can strip away all your baggage, and you're just balanced and can approach any project and jump into it. Can I say something against this? Because a lot of people have said that the idea that this is a Scientology movie

is stretching it, and I agree that it is a little bit, because his whole emotionless thing is like the villain of the movie. And it is conquered at the end of the movie, and at the end of the movie, they're like, you know what? go work with our with mom and like not do this that's what i find fascinating about the movie is i don't think it's like a pro

scientology like propaganda movie but i think it's a movie that is so based in i think will smith and his like relentless pursuit for like human perfection, right? To become like the ultimate human being. I think got into Scientology because of that like promise of like, we can make you go clear. And by the way, the Scientology talk has like really died down the last couple of years. Yeah. I think after this movie, he really sort of backed away from it.

He knew like, oh yeah. Yeah. Well also like though there's been, there have been quote unquote official statements now that he never was a Scientologist. You know what I mean? But coming out of Scientology, people are saying officially. Well, he never actually officially signed the document. That's the thing.

I think he was fucking around with it a little bit. Yeah. And I think this movie was coming from a point where he was not like, I need to teach the learnings of scientology but was like i'm really into these ideas right now about going clear all that concept um yeah and so it's this idea that if you fucking if you don't have any fear is that they focus on the one emotion for the sake of this movie but like you don't have any fear then these the ursa the aliens can't see you and then you can do anything one, this is kind of dumb. But whatever.

Agreed. But two. Because they can't see. They can only smell emotions. Two, it's the thing where they're like, oh, so we got to this new planet. Like Kit Fisto. All right. Like Kit Fisto.

We got to this new planet, Nova Prime. And like, oh, nice place. Except the aliens had designed a race that could kill us perfectly. Like perfect hunters. Maybe not the best planet to live on. But also like, oh, they're perfect hunters. They are blind. Go back to the drawing board with these guys.

Give them eyes. See what they can see. That would be a good thing to kill humans with. Because humans are very visible. We're not invisible. Just smelling our fears. And it's just immediately you're like, oh, what a dumb premise for a movie. Right? It's also the fucking Phantom Menace trilogy thing where if you start a movie with five minutes of fucking nonsense terms I haven't heard before, my brain sort of just shuts off.

Yeah. If, like, the opening of your film is like, the Ranger Corps have been killing Ursus for 5,000 years. Right. Ghosting was a thing that Cypher Rage could, and I'm just like, I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about.

It's done a montage. There's the one shot they give you of like Will Smith walking through a field, there's an ursa there, and he just like a fucking badass,

like throws his knife out, stabs a thing, and they go like, he was the ultimate ghost, you know? Yeah. Cool. Show me that fucking scene.

Yeah. Like you could do all of that visually. You could drop me into an exciting action scene where there are a bunch of monsters and a bunch of rangers and then big hero shot. Will Smith comes from the dust. The audience cheers. Yeah.

I mean, yes. Oh my God. They're going to kill him. What's going on? How is he not being killed? Stab, stab, stab. And someone goes, he's done it. He's eliminated fear.

He's become a ghost that conveys everything this fucking opening narration is trying to get across and it also would be entertaining to watch it would be a little more fun

now it's still the problem is like in this movie to be a hero who's like a total badass you have to be really boring because it's like you're emotionless

so it's just Will Smith super cool being like you know but it's like no face no expression no emotion you're emotionless. So it's just Will Smith, super cool, being like, but it's like no face, no expression, no emotion. It's a movie about- You're a bad dad.

You're a bad dad. Yeah, right. You got to be a bad dad to be a good ghost. Yeah, you got to be a bad dad. So is this Will Smith- That's the father-son thing. Right. Is this Will Smith saying-

That's where it kind of gets you with the father-son. So is it him saying to Jaden, like, look, I know I'm not around all the time. I know I'm a movie star and I got to do all this stuff. But, hey, like, you got to do that to be a movie. Is that what's happening here? I think, and Will has also said in the past. Will, I'm on a first name basis. Will, yeah, yeah.

Bill Smith has said in the past. We'll call him on the podcast, by the way. Will will come on the podcast. Bill has said in the past, Billy, that he like had said when people were like did you force your kids to go into show business to like make movies and he's like look i told my kids and this was before it seems like there was a bit of of a life re-evaluation from him we'll talk about that at the end of the podcast right but this was like a couple years ago around the time of after earth i think before it came out he was like i just told my kids very plainly i said like yeah willow jayden which let's talk for one second i just want to acknowledge

that he called his daughter named his daughter after himself and his son after his wife yeah kind of a good bit it's a good bit it's a good bit it's very consistent it's very consistent good bit commitment um but he uh said to them like by his own words right uh look you can do whatever you want to do and i'll support you in that but i'm not going to be able to help you because this is the only thing i understand if you want to be an astronaut good on you but i i don't understand that yeah and so there was this pressure of like if you want to have a relationship with me right but that's what it sort of sounded like it was like if you want to have a relationship with me you got to do what i

do yeah which does feel like the subtext of this movie but there also is this counterintuitive thing classic father son dynamic like I want to live up to my dad's standards but the counterintuitive

thing is like what's the number one if you cite what makes Will Smith such a great movie star guy's just got charisma yeah this movie is about

I want you to follow in my legacy become the next me by being bland and emotionless. By being a total blank slate. Being a cipher. And by being a total blank slate, except when you are hyperventilating. Yeah.

Which is such a stark contrast. Right. That it's hard to even watch that. It's hard to even- Watch those scenes. Watch that, watch those scenes watch that because you're like yeah this is just frustrating he's like so yeah he's like so frustrated it's so uh uh take any hyperventilating that you're like i can't deal take any the two the two main characters okay for the listeners at home i'm taking a knee uh the the two main characters in this film who are on screen for 90% of the movie, like there's probably a combined 30 lines of dialogue

not uttered by these two characters, right? The two main characters have two emotional states the entire film. Nothing and hyperventilation. Like that's kind of it, right? So the opening, there's the whole thing, and then it goes to, like, Jaden, and he's running and he's training,

and they go, you're not being passed as ranger. Goes home to dinner. His father's the legend. His mother seems very warm and caring. She does a good job getting across emotion in very limited screen time. You're like, oh, she seems maternal. She seems nice.

Right? Jaden announces at dinner that seems maternal. She seems nice. Right. Right? Jane announces at dinner that he's not a ranger. Right. Will reacts as badly as someone who doesn't have emotions can react. They're eating with these three-fingered chopsticks that I was very fascinated by. It's like three-fingered clear chopsticks where it's just, I love sci-fi movies where they haven't thought the world through,

but they're just like, I don't know, there's future chopsticks. Right? Like, there's a third chopstick. Like, that's their whole idea for a future eat, a future cuisine. My favorite thing like that is in Battlestar Galactica, how the paper, when they hand each other documents. Yeah, where the corners cut off. So it's just like an octagon paper, but it's literally

just they, like, cut the four corners off of the paper. They must have, like, by the fourth season been like, ah, fucking hell. Where's the cutting thing? There was one PA whose job was probably just, mom, dad, great job, great news, I got an internship on my favorite TV show, Battlestar Galactica, what do you do?

I sit in a basement all day and I cut the corners off of printer paper. Oh, boy. They freak out. I don't think he should be a ranger, though. He doesn out. And then Sophie. I don't think he should be a ranger, though. He doesn't want to be a ranger. He's like, he's first of all. Okay, but the first thing, he is faster than everyone else.

Very fast. But he is like two times smaller than all of the other cadets. He should be kids. He should still be a child. He's so small. How old was he when this movie was made? I think 14. Well, he looks about 12. The whole time I'm like he's a 12-year-old behaving

like a 12-year-old. He was born in 98. He's probably about 12, 13. 13 years old. Yeah. Maybe 14. The other thing is we say that he doesn't have emotions in this film, but it's all bottled emotions. You can tell this kid wants to express his emotions. Kitai. That's his name. W wants to express his emotions. Kitai. Kitai Rage.

That's his name. Wants to express his emotions. Cannot, which means he's probably not a good choice to be a ranger. No, and when the guy, Glenn Morshar, plays the general or whatever, and he's like, yeah, he's like, yeah, you're good. You can run and stuff, but then you freak out in the field, so I'm not going to promote you. Yeah.

Seems very logical to me. Good decision. Good decision. Yeah, this is a kid. You can imagine the extra line of dialogue being, I'm doing this for your own good. You don't want to be a ranger. A, you shouldn't be a ranger.

B, I think you don't want to be a ranger. Your dad wants you to be a ranger and you want to make your dad laugh. My dad's coming home. It's really important. And he's like, say hi to your dad for me. Like, okay.

Now I want to present a theory quickly. Call me crazy. I think Jaden Smith doesn't want to be in movies. Sure. Like, period. Just ever. Period. I think he did the first one. It was like, hey, do you want to be in a movie? You play my son? Sure, fine. Why not? He does it. He gets a lot of attention. He's a little boy.

Right? You're Clay at that point. You're Play-Doh. Oh, you want to do an alien movie? Sure, why not? Hey, you like kung fu? play-doh oh you want to do this alien movie sure why not hey you like kung fu you practice kung fu you want to do kung fu with jackie chan sure why not you know but like now the pressure's starting to get to him yeah and now everyone goes okay jayden now their expectations you have to try to take over the legacy and have 20 consecutive number one blockbusters and he's like hormones are kicking in yeah he's a teenager you never want to do what anyone

tells you to do when you're 13 and suddenly when you're 13 they're going we're going to bank 250 million dollars with advertising included and this promise of like video games and novels and comic books based off this thing they hired like Peter David who's like a famous comic book writer to write a

300 page bible of like all the the texture of the world so that they could delve into it and hand elements off to different writers to write additional supplemental material. And I think he's just every night going back home and going like, I don't like any of it.

I mean, in 2013, he sought emancipation with the permission of his parents in court at the age of like emancipation. Yeah. With the permission of his parents. Oh, yeah. In court. At the age of like 15. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and then also never made a movie ever again. No.

No. No. And it's just like a teenager who wears like a white Batman suit and like tweets crazy stuff. Yeah, wears burlap sacks and stuff. He's cool. He's doing his thing. He dresses and like models. He just does whatever he wants to do.

I mean, it's like, why would you want to be in a movie if that's what your life, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. Why would you want a job? In a movie where everyone makes fun of you. You don want to be in a movie if that's what your life, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. Why would you want a job? In a movie where everyone makes fun of you. You don't need to do a job if that's your life. And he tweets.

He tweets in, like, capitalizing. Yeah, he's a fucking savant. If you want to have a great time, Google Garfield Jaden Smith tweets. Oh, I've seen that. It's one of the things on the internet, but someone just took Jaden Smith tweets and placed them onto Garfield strips, and they're incredible. Yes. Also, this've seen that. It's one of the things on the internet, but someone just took Jaden Smith tweets and placed them onto Garfield strips, and they're incredible. Yes. Also, this movie's bad, and everyone made fun of him for it.

He won a Golden Raspberry, and he's bad. You guys are making the face of like, oh, David's bad. Oh, come on. But is After Earth a good movie? I know. Is it good? But is After Earth a good movie? I do think it's interesting what you guys are saying.

This is a movie about a kid who doesn't want to do something being told like to do something like in the movie and out of the movie and out of the movie yeah

and like I don't think Jaden's particularly great in it but I think especially he's bad bad I think the

capital B A D I think the accent is a nightmare yeah it's a problem because it's like that kid's not

experienced enough and skilled and trained enough as an actor to be able to deal with that on top of the emotions he's asked. And he's also like not acting with anybody or anything. Yes. Right? There's nothing is there with him. Huge problem. Very good point. Probably mostly like green screen.

Yeah. Mostly green screen. And lines being spoken to him off camera. Yeah. He barely interacts with another actor on screen and as we've said the lines being spoken to him are probably from Will Smith on set telling his son exactly

what to do it's the ultimate stage dad that is doing the same we're talking about the duality of what's happening in real life is what's happening in the movie right he wants to please his dad playing a kid who wants to please his dad. Right.

I don't know. No, you're right. There's some layers here. There's some layers. And I just want to say, additionally, not just he's playing off of nothing, you know, that he's in a green screen room. Sure. But also he's playing off of nothing and mostly doing physical acting. Yeah.

Like he doesn't have much dialogue. So like even doing that level of like action acting is really fucking tough when they're just like take two, jump. Right. Take two, take three, jump. And you're just jumping and you have to like track the emotions of where you were before that. Doing these little segmented pieces. It's like they're putting him on the advanced ropes course. Yeah.

Which is essentially also what this movie is about where the kid isn't trained to be a ranger and then is asked to do like this crazy mission. But you go like, I am legend, which we all agree Will Smith is amazing in. And you look at that and you're like, that's why this guy's a movie star. Because the first hour and a half of the movie, he's dealing with no one. He's talking to fucking mannequins. But if that were Will Smith's, think about Will Smith's early career. Right, if that was his third movie. Yeah, you'd be like, no, there's no one. He's talking to fucking mannequins. But if that were Will Smith's, think about Will Smith's early career. Right, if that was his third movie. Yeah, you'd be like,

no, there's no way. It would have been terrible. It would have been awful. Horrible. Horrible. And it's just like, they push the kid prematurely in this situation

he couldn't deal with. Yeah. Which is exactly what the movie's about. Yeah. And I just think now watching it, at the time,

I think a lot of the backlash was like, is Jaden gonna get pushed down our throats? Right. Which is also weird that people were that against it because they also,

they had loved the Karate Kid so much a couple years earlier. Right. But suddenly, the second this movie was advertised and Jaden is first

billed over Will. Right. Which everyone was like, nope, that's not the order we wanted him. Yeah, yeah. That's the big problem

like people probably had going into this. Yeah. They're like, oh, Will Smith not the order we wanted it. Yeah, yeah. That's the big problem people probably had going into this. They're like, oh, Will Smith movie, cool. His legs are broken? Wait, he doesn't leave the ship? He just talks over an intercom for the whole movie? He's also not going to be smiling? We're not going to see him smile ever? Okay, I don't like this.

Yeah, literally the last 30 seconds of the film he smiles. He's playing the biggest square in the universe. Not the world. He's playing just some herb. He's playing all the things you hate about your dad. Yeah, totally. He's playing bad dad. Yeah, he's playing bad dad.

But, like, to put all those things on top of Jaden, I think Jaden's not good in the movie. But I don't walk away from this going, like, he's a bad actor. Right. I'm like, this was an awful task. I agree with that. No, for sure. I mean, like I said, he's a very actor. Right. And, like, this was an awful task. Yeah. I agree with that. No, for sure. I mean, like I said,

he's a very natural presence in the other movies, and, like, it's not like he's the end of his, like, I think he could never do a good performance. Yeah. It's a bad circumstance. I like that scene that he has where he's, before he jumps. When he's freaking out?

Yeah. I like that scene. That's a good cathartic scene, because it's like, okay, finally someone in this movie is actually saying how they feel. Rather than just four clicks away there's going to be a log. You want to see him break free of his dad's thing. I think at the time people hated it so much because they were like, are we going to have to watch a fucking Bill and Jaden Smith movie?

Watching it now, knowing that we're in a climate that if Jaden Smith, if he's in a movie again, it's because he wants to be in a movie. They're not forcing that to happen anymore and watching it now and looking at it as a movie about the failed attempt to make jayden smith a movie star ending with the line of i think i want to work with mom instead yeah like kind of makes it emotional in an unintentional way yeah like the movie ends up being a decent jayden sm Smith biopic with the uplift at the end that he, like, got out from his dad's shadow and just fucking flew on squirrel wings and did whatever he wanted. Flight fives on- Presumably. Let's just run down the plot because it will take three sentences. Right.

Okay. So we're at the point where Sophie Okonodou says you should take him on a mission. Yeah. She says take him on a mission. He wants to be with his dad and, you know, he looks up to you, blah, blah, blah. So Cypher takes him on a mission. They wants to be with his dad, and he looks up to you, blah, blah, blah. So Cypher takes him on a mission. They go on a spaceship. The spaceship hits an asteroid field.

Let's mention, there's an Ursa on the ship. They're a bunch of fucking guys. Isn't this an extremely dangerous mission if there's an Ursa on the ship? Yeah, it's like an Ursa in an Ursa egg. It's more like Ursa testing or whatever. Ursa. Yeah. Dumb name.

That's Grunt, though. Sorry? That's Grunt, though. Yeah, that's that's Grunt though sorry oh yeah that's Grunt though but they just got this Ursa everyone's like oh it's Rage's kid you want a fucking Ursa and then he like tries to touch it the Ursa freaks out Cypher Rage comes in

da da da da the hidden asteroid field ship crashes everyone dies except for Will Smith whose legs are broken. His leg is horribly broken. And Kitai, the kid. He has to go to the other end of the,

like the other end of the ship landed 100 kilometers away. The tail of the plane. The tail. He's gotta go over there, get a beacon. Yep. Earth's really scary.

It's evolved to kill us. Okay, so that moment where he goes, I guess, it just has some animals. Yeah, but he says, well that's what's annoying about this movie. I thought that was gonna be a twist that it's like, oh it turns out Earth actually isn't evolved to kill us? Okay, so that moment where he goes- I guess. It just has some animals. Yeah, but he says- Well, that's what's annoying about this movie. I thought that was going to be a twist.

It's like, oh, it turns out Earth actually isn't evolved to kill us, and Earth's very nice. I was waiting for that, too. Yeah. Yeah. Because there are all these moments of when you just see nice- Yeah, it's very pretty. Village and birds, and it's like, oh, Earth is actually- This movie's pretty idyllic.

Well, I think it might be another one of those half-assed, like the happening M-Night allegory things. Because it begins with like, oh, pollution, and we left the Earth because we ruined it. And it's like, oh, look, we left, and now Earth's really nice again. Like, we were the problem. But I mean, it's pretty lazy. But there's that moment. I mean, that was the crux of the trailer, was they went like, son, the planet we've landed on is uninhabitable. Everything on this planet has evolved to kill human life.

What's the name of this planet? It's Earth. And then they go after Earth. You go, kind of an interesting idea for a movie. Yeah.

We come back to Earth. Earth has become like a danger zone. Yeah. And then it just feels kind of like there's like a forest. Yeah.

There's like some monkeys, there's a tiger, some birds. Like the fact that he goes out of the, he goes out of the ship for the first time and nothing immediately attacks him that's like

and he can breathe he has to take the little tablets he has to put the liquid no he's not going to be able to breathe that's one thing but then for it to not be like a vine immediately like then you're like okay

it's just a hike. It's just an Audrey 2, like, eating him from the second he steps off. A giant Audrey 2 eating. That's right. It should be governed by Audrey 2s. Yeah. Also, not enough movies with Audrey 2 in them. Let's say that.

That's true. The first thing that tries to get him, or the first thing that scares him on the planet, is a spider that just crawls onto him. Like, it's not even trying to bite him. It's just like a little tarantula or something. It's just a tarantula, and that's it. Like, that's, I mean... And it's not even an evolved spider.

It's just, like, just a normal spider. And then you get to the rest of the animals, and they're all CGI, but they're all just, like, a little... They're just, like, big animals. Well, and then the other thing is that the Earth supposedly freezes every night or whatever yeah yeah but it's basically just seems like it just gets cold because the sun goes down yeah yeah it's not like like that's

never a huge problem in this movie i don't know it's also like just the landscape itself just looks like oh yeah that's just it's just the jungle with more more vegetation yeah like it's just a greener earth that's what the rainforest looks like. You want the moment where when he steps off the ship, it's insane. And we go like, oh my God, I can't fucking believe. The sky's red. Yeah, that'd be awesome. He does end up in a volcano,

which is the other Scientology thing people got obsessed with. Because that's like a Scientology symbol. That's the cover of Dianetics. Because they say that our past memories are held in the volcano. So the volcano's a little gnarly, right? Because he has to climb a volcano. That's a little hard. But also right? Because he has to climb a volcano. Yeah. That's a little hard.

But it is like- But also a bird rescues him at one point and just puts him in with the babies. After trying to eat him, though. The bird does try to eat him first. Yeah. But then why does she- Because he kills the saber tooth. He kills the saber tooth and all of her chicks are dead, which is sad. We should never have come back to Earth after Earth.

Can I do a brief merchandise spotlight? Okay. We haven't done one for any of the M. Night films. We used to do this when it was a Phantom Menace podcast. I'm sure Last Airbender must have had some toys. It did, but they were just shitty. Here's my Last Airbender merchandise segment. It all went to clearance.

Now, here's my segment for After Earth. They were releasing all these books and trying to make all this stuff, right? And they announced that a toy company was going to make toys for After Earth. And everyone was like, ooh man. Because they'd only been like the teaser trailer at that point and the idea. And they were like, I bet there'd be some crazy creatures in this movie.

Like toys of like the fucking what are these monkeys going to look like? These crazy creatures. And then at Toy Fair that year, which is the big convention where they reveal all the products for the year, like the company had on display,

they were like, here's our After Earth line and it was just one doll of Katai. Ugh. Like you didn't even get a Will Smith, you didn't get the creatures.

That's it, the whole thing? We don't want fucking, we don't want a Jaden. Yeah, we don't care about Jaden. No one wants a Jaden action. Poor Jaden. He's a 13 year old boy. It's true, he whole thing? We don't want fucking... We don't care about Jaden. No one wants a Jaden action. Poor Jaden. He's a 13-year-old boy. It's true.

He's just a kid. It was just a sad-looking boy. And then he's just in a bodysuit. It's not like he has a cool gun or armor or whatever. But the bodysuit was cool. Kind of cool. It's helpful. But what did this toy have?

I mean, could the toy do all the stuff? It couldn't change color? No, it was just one loan. Monitor his heart rate? Does it become like a, you know, what are those things called? Yeah, the flaps. The flaps? It doesn't do that.

No, it's just like one of him. Does he have the cutlass? The cutlass? Yeah, but I think unextended. I think when it was just like a rod. It was a little rod. There's no, you can't press a button to make it, well. Well, so what happens is they show it, and everyone's like, we don't want this, and they're

like, oh, okay, canceled. And they just never released it. But everyone at the time was like, why wouldn't you make Toys of the Creatures? And then they saw the movie, and they were like, oh, because the creatures aren't that fucking good. All right, so let's talk about the Cutlass for a second. I want to talk about that. Got to talk about that Cutlass. Because it's the ghost weapon, right? And it's this rod that turns into different spiky kind of thing.

It has the needles of that thing that's like the grid that you can put your hand on and make the imprint. So it can turn into various shapes. You know what would be a really good weapon to kill those Ursas that are really big and scary? Gun. Gun. You could shoot them from afar. From a distance.

Right. Then you wouldn't need someone who needs to suppress his fear to walk among them. Why don't you just shoot them with a gun? But they're purists. They're purists. They're like David Blaine. They're close up fighting. There are no guns in this future. It's true. You don't see one.

So maybe we just decided to give up on guns. That's a fair point. But you know, maybe when we encountered the Ursus we should have been like, let's revisit the gun rule. Maybe we can have guns. Just Ursa guns, maybe. But the rest of this movie is just Will trapped,

slowly dying, right? Bleeding out, watching on a screen because there's a camera somewhere on Jaden's body, but the placement of the camera, it's in the backpack. But sometimes he's seeing

over his shoulder. Sure, he's seeing what he needs to see. Like, yeah. And so it's literally like Will behind the monitor watching the raw footage going like, Jaden, do this. Do this. And so it's literally like Will behind the monitor watching the raw footage going like, Jaden, do this.

Do this. Like directing him off camera. Almost always Jaden is not doing it. Yeah. Like he's like, chill out. And Jaden's like, take a knee. Take a knee. He won't take a knee.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely don't climb that cliff face or jump off of this waterfall. He climbs that fucking cliff face. He jumps off that water. That's the thing, like I just, I went through a lot of things I think don't work in this movie,

but I still kind of think despite it all, this movie kind of works. I mean, it's just that I have all these heartstrings and there are these moments in the movie

where they just pull on those heartstrings. Yeah. And like, the jumping off of the waterfall is one of them. And then the part where, like you just said,

he doesn't listen to him the whole time. Right. And then there's one time when you just said, he doesn't listen to him the whole time. Right. And then there's one time when he can't hear him at all. Yeah, I like this scene a lot. And he's saying all of the things that he wants him to do. Right. And he comes to those conclusions on his own.

And it's like, those two moments, everything else aside, it's like, whatever. But those two moments are like, oh, this is great. everything else aside, it's like, whatever. But those two moments are like, oh, this is great. Yeah. My anger,

the things that make me angry in this movie are only because I think this movie could have so easily been so much better. Yeah. You know? Where it's like,

okay, if you're gonna do, if this is the idea of the film is the son having to rescue the father, then maybe the way to do it is the one where it's the, you know, I can't believe I'm alive or I survived thing,

wherever. Where it's just simple, it's they're on a mountain top. Yeah'm alive or I survived thing wherever where it's just simple it's there on a mountain top 27 hours because the second you get into all the mythology the background you devote all this time that takes away from the emotional crux of it and also you're making the characters now motionless robots right yeah or if you

want to make the film that's like humans land on earth a thousand years after we left and it's crazy now then that's not the storyline i think to link up to that right don't make it just one kid wandering through there you know like i think it the two things are fighting with each other right i like both ideas enough that there are moments where the movie works for me but i also am frustrated that i can't just see the two separate movies where each one is executed yeah to their. I would even like this movie more if like Will Smith, his leg was broken, but he went with him.

Yes. Like they went together. They had like a floating stretcher, like a hollow stretcher. Yeah. Something that. Yeah. Something that put them in the same space. Where they could have FaceTime.

Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. A way to see each other. And yeah. But look, is the juice worth the squeeze no but that moment where the microphone goes out and will's going and he independently takes a knee

and fucking will smith's a great actor yeah his reaction in that moment is like pretty beautiful where he's like realizing that his son actually you know has within him to be the man. I don't disagree. Here's my problem. Like, I mean, the whole movie is basically, like, he needs to conquer his fear. He needs to be able to defeat this Ursa. We know, like, that at the end of this movie, he's going to run into that Ursa from the ship. We know that's, like, the... But, like, he's basically freaked out for three quarters of the movie, and then he runs into the Ursa.

He's freaked out then, and then suddenly he's like, boom, he's got it. And then that's it. But this is in defense of the movie. Please, go ahead. He tells him how he ghosted the first time. Sure. Before this happened. That is true.

And he has that weird spiritual, he has that weird spiritual, he has that dream where Zoe Kravitz is back, and she's sort of guiding him from beyond. And because all of those things have happened, he believably ghosts at the end. The first time I saw it, I was like, I don't know. This is the first time I saw this movie, I'll admit. But this time around, I was like, no, 100% he ghosts right now.

Yeah. And it's not right away either. It's like it- No, no, he has to- He has to get some real shots in before he's able to finally ghost. Can we talk about the Zoe Kravitz element? Because I think that's the only element of the story we haven't talked about yet. Yeah.

I guess so. Oh, right. Classic Shyamalan, this part. Yeah, because every Shyamalan movie is about someone focusing on their career more than their family and losing them in one way or another. Divorce, drifting apart, or death, right?

Totally. This movie's weird because it's told from the perspective of the family who's lost the dad, in a way, who's been drifted away from, but all of them are about this. And I even realized, we didn't talk about this last week,

but it hit me watching After Earth last night, Last Airbender, the fact that he rewrote it to make it the reason Alan left is because he wanted to have a family someday is very telling. Because Seton said that wasn't in the fucking cartoon. He was just chasing a butterfly.

And then M. Night made it like, if you can't have a family, why live? But let's never talk about The Last Airbender again. We talked about The Last Airbender for maybe five minutes. We couldn't talk about it. Have you seen it? I have not seen it.

It's actually unwatchable. It's not the worst movie I've ever seen, but it's maybe the most pointless non-existent film I've ever seen. I remember I didn't watch the show regularly, but I remember maybe the most pointless, non-existent film I've ever seen. I remember, I didn't watch the show regularly, but I remember the show being something that was fun. Yeah. And so like,

everyone's reaction to the movie, I was like, I can't even try. How could you? Can I say this too? I know I'm going sidebar on a sidebar, but can I say, M. Night's movies used to be funny.

Yeah. Like Sixth Sense has a lot of jokes in it. Yeah. And like, he's really good at building the tension and then cutting it. Science is, like, a laugh riot. Yeah, science is funny. The village is funny.

The village is funny. But here's the answer. And let's not forget Wide Awake. Wide Awake has the thing where the kid's asleep and the movie's called Wide Awake. But let's not forget Wide Awake. I mean, it's fucking hell. I never want to talk about Wide Awake. Lady in the Water.

Lady in the Water. Tons of comedy. Too goofy. Yeah, maybe to its detriment so maybe that's when he pulls back he trips it way back and how the movies

have become The Happening has Mark Wahlberg talking to a plastic plant right which is pretty funny and they like duck under the wind

I don't know if he was going for funny with that part that part's hilarious but the talking plant thing comes so late in the film because like the other ones

he sets up a good balance early on and the talking plant thing I so late in the film because like the other ones he sets up a good balance early on and the talking plant thing i remember when you got to that scene when we got to that scene i was like is he in on the joke or not i don't know because he hasn't made a joke yet in this film last airbender and after earth are so dour yeah so humorless right i think there's one joke and last yearender, based on a property that is funny and whimsical and charming. And, you know, for kids.

You know, for kids. Anyway, back to this movie. The backstory is that Zoe Kravitz was his sister. They were in their apartment talking to Dad via Skype. Right? Blowing out birthday candles.

No more Skype. And then somehow an Ursa came into their apartment. Yeah. He walked in. He rang the doorbell. Yeah. They opened the door. It was like, oh, it's an Ursa.

They were like, can you hold on one minute? They closed the door on the Ursa. Zoe Kravitz is like, okay, there's an Ursa here. I'm going to die. You jump inside the small terranium. That we could probably both fit into. Right. If we really thought about it for a second. Right. Also, we have a small terranium. That we could probably both fit into, but...

If we really thought about it for a second. Also, we have a small terranium in our apartment. So Jaden jumps inside little Jaden, who the actor's name is also Jaden. Oh, that's great. His name is like Jaden Hawkins or whatever. I believe, yeah. Let me find it out.

Who looks like Jaden did at that age? Yeah. They gave him the hair. They did that for the audience of like, we know what Jaden looks like. We saw that movie. We saw that fucking movie. We know what he looks like.

So yeah, and obviously Cypher is not there to defend them. Cypher's not there and Kravitz takes the fall. She dies protecting her body. And you see her getting impaled for a second there. It's horrible. We see it a few times. They keep showing this. And there's that fantasy sequence where she's suddenly skinaled for a second there. It's horrible. We see it a few times. I know. They keep showing this.

And there's that fantasy sequence where she's suddenly skinless for a second. You see huge wounds on her face. Yes. Now, here's a storytelling principle I believe in very, very seriously. It's like the Andrew Stanton role for me, which is Finding Nemo, opening scene of the movie. Here's Marlon. Here's his wife. They have nice banter.

You engage with them immediately. They're well-written. They're well-performed. Then the barracuda comes, kills his wife, kills all the babies. Nemo, opening credits. So from the time the movie starts, you understand why Marlon's so neurotic. You understand the emotional weight of everything. You carry that with you in every scene.

Years later, Andrew Stanton makes John Carter. John Carter starts, and here's just a man and he's closed off emotions or whatever and they reference his family and you go okay i mean i know what fucking happened yeah but they wait until an hour and a half into the movie to give you the flashbacks and they give you the little pieces and you're like i know don't think you're smart and you're gonna twist me and i'm gonna know and then they reveal it to you and you go right well i knew that. But without seeing that scene, without experiencing as an audience, you don't feel for the character.

Yeah. And so the whole first like hour and whatever the movie's a wash. And this movie makes that fucking mistake where it's like opening scene of the film should be Will Smith fucking battlefield ghosting. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Then he's on the ship. And he gets the news.

You know, he he Skypes with them. Right. Oh, yeah. And then it happens. It's the birthday. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Then he's on the ship and he gets the news. He you know he he Skypes with. Right. Oh yeah. It's the birthday. Yeah. And then from the Skype we cut to in the apartment or he watches it on the Skype whatever it is. Maybe he watches it on Skype.

Yeah. And then we go boom after Earth start with Jaden Smith running. The movie would be so much more emotional if we had that scene from the get-go because we know the entire time the first time they show you a glimpse of zoe kravitz right and then there's a part where sophia canado says like you know he still hasn't gotten over it it's like she died we know yeah don't think you're pulling one over on us yeah it's like when they when they do finally show it the thing that we really get out of it is the discussion way later of like why couldn't you ghost or like when they yell at you know what i mean like yeah that's but like but as far as the event

itself there's no need to keep it a secret like that absolutely not and like you see the other thing you get out of is oh wow this is graphic and it was pretty terrifying it impales her if that was the opening scene the rest of the movie jayden's this bottle you'd be like okay i get it right he watched that happen he's not expressing a lot but i understand i get the character right um and and i also think the device of that one scene where he comes to her when when uh when she comes to him when he's sleeping on the riverbed yeah on his like little raft and she starts speaking to him i'm like they should have fucking used this device more yeah because this movie you need to have him talking to people yeah his sister's personable. His sister actually is like, yeah, like a little bit like fun.

Zoe Kravitz is a pretty warm actress, you know? But she like exudes a certain level of warmth. Will is bottling everything up the whole time. Right. So like have six moments in the film. Yeah. Where he's freaked out and Zoe Kravitz comes to him and like. I mean, it would.

Right. Because like the way the way they do it now is like we just see we just see his memory instead of like what would be cool is if like those memories were like there was just more there was more back and forth. There was like more there was a scene instead of a. Yeah. Right. So right.

We see the little pieces of all the same moment. Yeah. Which is you're going to flashback. So it's different moments of their relationship yeah show us her fucking getting killed at the very beginning and then either do flashbacks to different moments that solidifies their relationship how much of a loss this was for him also gives us some fucking like emotional connection yeah or have her appear as like a figment of his imagination a bunch so that he is an actor in the same frame to play off of you know yeah but it's still kind of a good one yeah kind of i mean it's still kind

of it's kind of like low-key okay movie i mean like despite the fact that like the like the ursa we don't even really have to deal with until the end like he's dealing with he's already gotten the beacon uh yeah he already has he already has the thing he was trying to get. It's going. It's broadcasting already. And then the Ursa fighting is like an afterthought. Yeah. Until then, it's monkeys, tarantula, and birds.

A leech. A leech. Not even multiple leeches. Which almost fucks the whole thing. That's like almost the end of the whole thing. I kind of like that scene, too, where he's got to administer the shots. That scene has some genuine tension to it. Yeah, that scene's cool.

I agree. Just because there's a ticking clock and Will Smith is sort of barking orders, like, roll over on it. You know, that's a good scene. This scene, this movie is more put together than, like, the last four Shyamalan movies. It has more tension, and the CGI is not quite as bad, although it's kind of flat. Like, it's not bad, but it's not great. But also, why not make the things look crazier?

You know? Yeah. Who cares? Yeah, it should look crazier. It feels like they are. And Earth should be crazier. Audrey, too. It feels like they went too realistic with it.

Yeah. Where they were like, well, in a thousand years, it'll only be this much change. Right, yeah. Yeah, but guess what? It's a movie. Yeah. Why set it on Earth a thousand years after we left if it's not going to be horrible? You're right. I mean, the first thing

should be the sky should be red. Yeah, the sky's red and a vine chokes it. That should have been the immediate first thing. Welcome to after. There we go. I know they like the idea of this being a two-hander and it's just Will and Jaden.

What if there were three other people and they get picked off one by one? And then Jaden's the only survivor and Will Smith, you know, Cypher finally has to be like, okay, alright. You know, like rather than like from the get-go, he's just like, okay, legs are broken, you gotta go. Yeah, have three other rangers. So if you're gonna make a movie

centered around a 14-year-old kid, get four 14-year-old kids so none of those 14-year-old kids have the entire movie. Yeah. Like resting on their shoulder for every fucking shot but they wanted to go in with this

I really think they were like that's how we sell this movie this is this really intense two actor movie and it's a passing

of the torch and I think he bet incorrectly that audiences wanted to see that can I tell you guys an idea I have to fix the movie

yes okay Ben has great ideas. Ben should be, Hollywood should pay him a million a year. Hey guys, come on, email me. I'm happy to punch up those scripts. Okay, Ben, here are your punch-ups for After Earth. Okay, so I feel like the main distraction

for me is Jaden is he's playing a character in a time of your life that is, you're the most annoying person ever. Agreed. Sure. Right? He's right at that sweet spot.

14. The worst. He's so whiny. He's so just annoying. It's just I couldn't. I was so distracted by that the entire time. So my feeling is to just make it so that it can maybe have some humor and just be kind of like I don't know more interesting is why don't you make him like future

emo or future goth sure you know like yeah okay I see why this kid is such a brat and annoying you're saying lean into it instead of like trying to overcompensate make it like he's really in a bad phase make him the Jaden that we know now right make him

wearing a control panel confessional t-shirt. A control panel confessional. So, I don't know. I feel like that would have made it a lot more interesting. That's your suggestion? Yeah, make him goth. Yeah, make him goth. Look, hey, make him goth.

Make him goth. We'll sell make him goth shirts in our store, which we haven't established yet. That would have made it more interesting to me if he was rebellious rather than just I want to make dad happy because his best moment

as you said is when he's being the most rebellious is when he's freaking out and saying you weren't there that's why she died but it like connects that energy to something whereas before he just feels like a kid who is That's why she died. But it connects that energy to something. Whereas before, he just feels like a kid who is scared. Yeah.

And who is too scared. But if we had some semblance of why he is that scared, like he's seen these things in action, then that, you know, I don't know. That would tie it all up. That would tie it all up. At the end of the movie, the fucking ghost gets the beacon and he kills the Ursa. Yep. And then the movie's would tie it all up. That would tie it all up. At the end of the movie, the fucking ghost gets the beacon

and he kills the Ursa. Yep. And then the movie's like, wrap it up. Because all M. Night movies, this is a 90-minute movie, basically. I mean, it runs 100, but again, the credits are like

eight minutes of it. All his movies are 90 minutes long. He makes short movies. Last Airbender, which had a lot of mythology and has large sections, not just in the beginning, but where there's just narration

and then they gloss over four scenes that feel like they were shot in their entirety. Part of me wonders if they did shoot the whole opening action sequence. Yeah. But I feel like he then just gets in the room, and he's like, it's got to be 90 no matter what. Look, if this movie was longer, it'd be worse.

It's a boring movie. Longer, not better. Redistribution of time. No, I think it depends on in what way is it longer. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? If you guys are saying, right, there's that whole action sequence at the beginning, then yeah, it could be longer.

We need that. That'll make the rest of the movie feel shorter. Right. If you put that one thing in there in the beginning. That's the thing is, like, this movie could be, like, assuming they did shoot more of that sequence, I feel like this entire movie could be made 25% better if you just took it in the final cut and like reassembled it a little bit.

Also like if he would have had another moment to ghost, like if there was more than one Ursa. Yeah. Where he tried and failed. Yeah. Yeah. That would be dope. That'd be cool.

That would be cool. Yeah. They got a lot of ideas, guys. Yeah. It's good. But still like kind of. I mean, still kind of good. I mean, I will say like the movie started and I was like, oh, I can't. I don't lot of ideas, guys. It's good. But still kind of... I mean, still kind of good. I mean, I will say, like, the movie started and I was like, I can't.

I don't like it. It's going to be brutal. And then the more it went on, the more I was like, okay, I take it back. They're pulling at my heartstrings. They're pulling at them. So early in the movie, they do this thing where, like, a guy comes up and he's got one leg and he's in a floating space chair. And he goes, like, Cypher Ridge, I want to thank you. Diego Klettenhoff, who's in, like space chair and he goes like Cypher Ridge I want to thank you

Diego Kladenhoff who's in like Homeland and stuff and he goes like sir stand me up and they go sir you can't because stand me up and they stand him up and he salutes right it's a decency the end of the movie they get in the rescue ship they come in they get Cypher and Katai two broken legs Cypher's two broken legs yeah he stands on two broken legs yeah he's

he's on he's on this bed. Kitai comes in. We haven't talked about this ever. M. Night always has one poorly placed, horribly executed slow motion sequence in every single movie. Wait. Which one was the one in the- It's when he sees his dad on the bed. It goes into slow motion as Kitai's walking in.

And some people are walking fast and other things are slow. But he always does it in this way that looks like... In the happening, it's when the kid gets shot in the head and Mark looks like... In Lady in the Water,

it's one of the scrunt moments with Story. Yeah, it's true. He does it in every single... In Unbreakable, it's the moment when he comes up behind the man in orange.

Oh, right. Yeah. But every single time, it feels like he didn't shoot it as slow motion. Oh, right. Yeah. But every single time, it feels like he didn't shoot it as slow motion. He, like, in post was like, can we just slow it down? Yeah. Because there's a difference between

if you, like, shoot more frames, and it's like you get a nice, fluid slow motion. Like Wes Anderson, like a nice, fluid slow motion. And this just feels, like, very herky-jerky, and he's done it in, like, nine of his 11 movies. Wow. That moment plays, he sees his his dad his dad sees him he goes stand me up they stand up it mirrors the salute thing and then he he isn't fucking salute he comes in for a hug and they cry together and he goes dad i think

i want to work with mom instead and they laugh and that's the very end of the movie literally i'm written and directed and produced by him or whatever you know like it cuts to the end this movie does horribly at the box office. Yeah, let's talk about it. I love talking about box office. It made 60 mil domestic total. Oh my God. You should have opened to 60.

That's how Will movies open. So here we go. Karate Kid opened to 50. Griff, let's see how you do. Okay. I was trying to name the top five. It opened May 31st, 2013. It opened number three at the box office.

Okay, I have to put myself in a time and a place. I was in... The number one movie is in its second week. Okay, I think I can get this. I was in Cleveland when this movie came out. Sure, you were shooting Draft Day. I was. I was there for five weeks, and I didn't have any friends.

So I went to go see movies a lot by myself at the mall in Cleveland. What about Timothy Simons? We became friends later, yeah. But he also, he has kids, so he'd often go home on the weekends. Boring, yeah, right, right. Yeah, he'd fly back home to his weekends. See his children. So on the weekends, I would, I didn't have a car, I didn't drive.

Our hotel was in the middle of nowhere. I remember when I went to see After Earth, it was right after, or not right after, but it was shortly around after the time of, whatchamacallit, the shootings in the Dark Knight Rises theater. Oh, yeah. So I have a backpack on me at all times. I took an hour and a half bus because that was the closest place playing After Earth, and I wanted to go see it.

An hour and a half bus? From Cleveland to where? I don't know. I was outside of Cleveland. That was the thing. I was outside of Cleveland. You had to go into Cleveland? Right, whatever it was.

And I get to this strip mall in the middle of nowhere where After Earth is playing, and they're like, sir, we can't let you in the theater. You have a backpack. Can you leave it in your car? And I was like, I just took an hour and a half. So did you not see it? They ended up locking my backpack in the party space of the movie theater or something. Couldn't they just open it and look and see this?

That's what I said. I was like, dude, I'm just... I came all this way to see After Earth. Can't you have some empathy for me? You know this isn't going to end well. But, okay. So I saw a lot of movies that month, but by myself. I think number... Number one.

Number one. I need to think about number one a little more. I believe Now You See Me was in the top five. That's number two. That's number two. It opened the same week after Earth. Number one. So it. Okay, Jesus. I believe Now You See Me was in the top five. That's number two. That's number two. It opened the same weekend. It opened the same week beat After Earth. Number one, so it's May 31st.

Has Hangover 3 come out? Hangover 3 is number six. Wow, so it dropped that quickly. Yeah, and it's second weekend. It's number six. That's right. Wow. God, Hangover 3.

Hangover 3. Avengers is still number one, right? Nope. Avengers is 2013. Oh, this is 2013. 2013. I'll put it to you this Avengers is 2013. Oh, this is 2013. 2013. I'll put it to you this way. Yeah.

You like this movie. I like this movie. A lot. And this was like the first big May release. Oh, Iron Man 3? Nope. But did Iron Man 3 come out that year? Maybe.

Oh, yeah. Iron Man 3 is number seven. Okay, fuck. It's been out for five weeks. I like this movie a lot. Is it a Pixar movie? No. It's not a kid's movie? No. I like it a lot. Oh, fuck. It's been out for five weeks. I like this movie a lot. Is it a Pixar movie? No. It's not a kid's movie?

No. I like it a lot. Oh, yeah. It's like I've mentioned it a lot to you. Probably. Give me one more hint. It's a sequel. Fuck, I was already assuming that.

It's the sixth sequel in a series. Oh, Fast and Furious 6. Obviously. Are you kidding me? Yeah. What a dummy I am. Of course that's what it was. And it's second week.

It has already made 170 mil in two weeks. So Fast and Furious 6. Now you see me. After Earth is number three, open to $27 million. And then Iron Man is seven. Hangover is six. Can I throw one out? You're going to be impressed that I pulled. Epic is number

five. I never thought you'd get that. I was going to get that one. Who remembers that? It's an animated movie. I remember that it was the that. I was going to get that one. God, who remembers that? It's an animated movie. I remember that it was the one movie I didn't see alone in Cleveland. Good call. Number four is Star Trek Into Darkness. Oh, yeah. I forgot that movie exists.

Yeah, you've also got Great Gatsby in there. You've got, I believe, a Bollywood movie. Number nine, Yeah, Jowani Hai Dawani. I mean, I'm probably getting that wrong. And number 10, Mud. That's a crazy top 10. Weird top 10. Weird top 10.

Francis Ha is number 12. It's like a kind of a weird mix of indies and big blockbusters, crappy sequels. It was a simpler time. After Earth. It was a simpler time three years ago. Yeah, so it ends up with 60 mil, which is like terrible. It does well overseas. Awful.

I can't believe that. That's an awful show. It does 180 overseas, which is also bad. It does well overseas. Awful. I can't believe that. That's an awful show. It does 180 overseas which is also bad for Will Smith. It clears 240 mil worldwide which is about

probably what they spent making for this movie. I think with like DVD and whatever factor in I think they probably it was like

net neutral. Which is not a good result. The only movies he's made that did worse are Ali, Focus, Made in America I don't even Concussion, Bagger Vance, Six Degrees. Yeah, but like Made in America, he's not even- Right.

I mean, I'm reading off of this here. But he never made a blockbuster that performed this poorly. Ali is probably the only one you could argue is close to them. It costs a lot of money, but yeah. He has said that this is the biggest disappointment of his career. Yeah, that's the thing. lot of money yeah yeah yeah but he has said that this is the biggest disappointment of his career yeah that's the thing and i feel so bad for m night because i as much as he fucks it up over and over again every movie he makes like the happening walbert comes out of that and he's

like that was a mistake i shouldn't have made that movie yeah last airbender and like the people who made the last airbender like basically like we won't acknowledge that movie even exists right after will smith is like i ruined my son's career i made a huge mistake but i feel like it's not like wild wild west where like there were a lot of other voices that kind of fucked that movie up this was will smith's movie he had always said wild west was like his biggest regret in life and he said this replaced it because i dragged my son into it with me like i made it personal um i think i might didn't do a terrible job with this movie. I think there are some good sequences. I feel like if that IMDb trivia fact is true, and I believe it is whether or not

he was literally the co-director of that film. Sure, you mean from a visual standpoint, he did fine. I think the sequences are fairly well put together. If Will himself, Billy, had that much power over the story, and the world world building those are most of our gripes like yeah i'm sure will was like i think it's good if they have no emotion like for whatever reason right he studied that that doesn't seem like an m night decision i think it was a bad pairing to bring him in there because m night was in this very stoic mode already at

that point he's an auteur like he needs to do his own stuff yeah as much as he's out of his mind at this point like he needs to do his own stuff don As much as he's out of his mind at this point, he needs to do his own stuff. Don't make him do someone else's script. But somehow this movie that was supposed to be like, we're just going to give you, it's a gimme, and you'll get back on your feet, knocks him down even further. His name was not in the poster. They didn't put him in the advertising that much.

Yeah, look at the poster. And it really was kind of like the last big strike for him in a way, until he had to rebuild himself with the next movie. Yeah, I wonder if he made a choice with the next movie. I wonder if he had been like, okay, let me try and get another big blockbuster, if he would have been able to do it.

I don't know. Oh, I guarantee you he tried. You think so? There was a drama he was supposed to make with Bruce Willis. Well, that's the one we were talking about. No, but there was another one that was a solo Bruce Willis. It was him going on a spiritual journey. It wasn't the one with Bradley Cooper.

There was a movie that was like, yeah, it sounded really good. Yeah, why would anybody? The thing about a director like M. Night is if you can get a star to be in a movie, then you get to make the movie. And that's how a lot of directors who are sort of big names work. It doesn't matter. It's how the Wachowskis work. They can get big names, and then the that's like how a lot of directors who are sort of big names work. You know, it doesn't matter. It's how the Wachowskis work. They can get big names and then the studio's like, all right, fine.

Like, you got the actors. Like, we'll do it. So maybe he could have gotten Bruce Willis or whatever. But Bruce Willis at that point, I don't think was big enough to, yeah, he was making so much bullshit. Will Smith after this, you know, he had always been very strategic in his career and it was like I do summer movies and he analyzed like

story structure and it was like a hero always needs to be this and do this and there were a lot of big films he turned down because he'd be like I didn't think the story worked on this level which by his standards was like a very set like he had a very specific idea of how a hero has to function that's why they were always he was sort of the savior.

He was the last one, or he had to sacrifice himself, or whatever it was. And then after this movie, sort of the rules go out the window for him. Yeah, yeah. He makes this, and then he sort of said it was a big breakthrough moment for him. His father died shortly afterwards. And he said in interviews that he had this moment where his father died, and he was like, I've been trying to become the perfect movie star, and I realize it doesn't fucking matter. Like, my dad's going to die no matter what.

Right. And I brought my son into this. And he sort of threw out the rule book. And, like, Focus is a February release of, like, a pretty small. It feels like an 80s Hollywood movie. Yeah. It's just like, oh, famous guy, yeah, some sexy fun, right? Yeah.

And like Focus is kind of revolutionary for how small it is. I mean, A, how small it makes the biracial romance thing. Like it's so offhand. Can we also talk about the May-December romance thing? Was he like 20 years older than Margot Robbie? Yes, yes. Come on, Bruce. I mean, Will.

But I also, I like that it's like such a small, like contained little thing and it was just like, oh, here's just like a Will Smith, here's a spring movie for you. Here's like a winter Will Smith. And then Concussion

was like a drama, but they didn't, you know. Yeah. Concussion was more of an obvious Oscar play that just didn't work. Yeah. You can see another year

where that would have worked or just a little bit, but I mean, he hired the worst director for it. Yes, I do think he's excellent in that movie. I think that movie is just a piece of garbage. Yeah, it's not good at all.

I was going to make a television joke. Yeah, I was going to do the same. I feel like... Why not? Who cares? You know, it's Marge. His accent in Concussion is better than his accent in After Earth. No question, because it's based off a real accent that human beings have.

But even that accent, though, is not... Like, he doesn't actually sound like the guy. No. No. But it is at least a that accent, though, is not, like, he doesn't actually sound like the guy. No. But it is at least a consistent accent, I guess. Yeah. But you are correct. And then Suicide Squad. Will Smith's 47, Margot Robbie's 25. Just definitely. That's a good balance. No, I get that Will Smith's, like, you know.

We'd all hit it. I mean, that's a good looking guy. Think about it. Will Smith is pretty close to being the age Barack Obama was when he was elected president. Obama keeps saying he's got the ears, he should play me.

That's going to happen. Will wants to play. He's said it a lot. But Suicide Squad looks like something he never would have signed on to do five years ago. Yeah, no, absolutely not. I think he would have been too image conscious to play like a villain. Not only is he in that movie, but they are not marketing it on the back of Will Smith. It's not a Will Smith movie.

It's offensive to me that they're not doing that. Wait, why? That's part of the point. I guess. See, I think it's kind of cool. As much as I want it to be a Will Smith movie. I want it to be a Will Smith movie, damn it. It makes me feel good for Will as a person.

Right. It's good for you, man. That he's ready to just be in an ensemble. Yeah. And crush it. And I guarantee you he's the lead in that movie. Yeah, well, Dead Chat, right, is one of the focal points. Yeah.

I think it's him and Harley Quinn are the leads. Yeah. But they also, I mean, it's the poster. Wait, it's Margot Robbie again. I just put that together. Are they buddies or something? I think so. I hope they keep making movies together.

I mean, you just sort of, when you're hot, you're hot. You know what I mean? Clicking. And I think they're good together. I think that Suicide Squad's, I'm not excited for it. I don't think it'll be good. I don't know. But I do think it could be better than Batman v Superman, colon Dawn of Justice. I think there is almost no chance that I like Batman v Superman more than

Suicide Squad. I agree with you. I got, I'm so like, I tweeted the other day, I don't know if you saw this, it was probably at 3 o'clock in the morning knowing me,. I tweeted the other day. I don't know if you saw this. It was probably at 3 o'clock in the morning knowing me. I tweeted American Crime Story colon Batman v Superman. I saw that.

Then I tweeted the people v OJ Simpson colon Dawn of Justice. I was like both titles are better now. It's the worst title. It's the worst title. That's the number one worst title i've ever heard i was breaking this down the other day a the v thing is so pretentious right we've talked about it just call the movie batman versus superman but here's the other thing the subtitle you imagine that someone's in the theater and the title comes up

it's batman v superman they go pass then fade in. Dawn of Justice. Oh shit, Justice is dawning in this movie? Well, wait a second. Now you got me. If Justice is going to dawn... Is some justice happening? I'm all about opening deck. Can I get my Fandango app out right now? But James, let's clarify. Justice isn't happening.

It's just dawning. It's dawning. No, I don't want justice to happen. I want it to begin. I want it to just kind of start, like kind of rise a little bit. I like a prelude to justice. Oh, boy. Worst title of all time. After Earth, I give it a B minus. I give it like a C minus.

Okay, I think I'll hover. You'll be in the middle? Yeah. Maybe I'll do like a B. Maybe I'll do a B, just like a solid B. Oh, wow. Okay, so you're in the middle. A gentleman's B, yeah.

I'd say like two and a half stars, you know, but it's like fun. Whatever, it's fine. It's like not a lot of fun to watch, you know. I don't think I ever want to watch this movie again. No, you know, I'm glad I took three years to watch it again. The thing is, I might watch it again. So I want to not like it but after the first 25

to 30 minutes or so I'm on board. It doesn't help that I have watched too many M. Night movies in this last month. If I had come across this on cable maybe the mood would have been a little different. I used to be a huge M. Night fan.

Like a huge fan. Night fan like a huge fan he was my guy Unbreakable is my shit we're on the same page Unbreakable is one of my favorite movies ever and then I think I first started

to be like I don't know with The Village and then Laid in Water I bought I like didn't go see it

in the theater I just bought the DVD you blind bought it and I was like yeah let me see let me see this I love Paul Giamatti. I love Bryce Dallas Howard.

This is great. But M. Night Shyamalan. And then that was just not good at all. No. So, yeah. And then the happening was when I stopped. I just stopped going to see it. There definitely has...

There's a point in every week now for me where I'm like... I'm very excited that we are now done with that. It feels like tax day is once a week for me. I gotta fucking do that thing. Oh, my God. When I finished The Visit, which I have finished, there was a palpable sense of relief. Especially since I love all of the movies of our next director. Yeah, we're doing The Wachowskis next.

Oh, great. Which is like, we like those. I actually like those movies. Those movies are controversial, but we like them. So I'm excited.ki's next. Oh, great. Which is like, we like those. I actually like those movies. Those movies are like controversial, but like we like them. So I'm excited. That's good. Well, James, thank you so much for being on the show. Yeah, thanks for having me.

James, it was a pleasure. You're the best in the biz. Anything you want to plug? Black Man Can't Jump in Hollywood. It's a great podcast. Great podcast. The best. Find us on Spreaker, iTunes.

I'm at JamesThirdComedy on Twitter and also any social media platform. You're doing lots of stuff. You're a stand-up. You're on a sketch team here at the UCB. You're around. I'm around. Look me up. David, anything you want to plug?

Anything I want to plug? I interviewed Gerard Carmichael. That was fun. That's really cool. That'll go up on The Atlantic at some point. You're literally asking me something to plug. That's the last thing I did. It was a great interview.

Yeah, it seems like it would be. Interviews usually, you know, they can just be so awful. Or the guy can just obviously be so busy. Yeah. And or like he's being handed a phone or you're getting to it and they're just like, yeah, so, you know, like they sort of click into the, no. Gerard Carmichael just wants to talk about shit all day he wants to like talk yeah and that's why he makes that

awesome show that's just about people talking about shit people talking yeah so everyone watch the Carmichael show on NBC Sunday nights I like six maybe seven years ago was in LA and did like my friend's stand up show and he was on the bill as well and we were like backstage and he went on the bill as well um and we were like backstage

and he he went up first and came out afterwards and like everyone was like oh hey i had to go out there and he was like no i did all right i feel like no i'm like i i feel like i haven't been that funny recently and he's like but i feel like uh everyone's like really funny these days and he was like like i'm just like i feel like i'm being i'm doing a really good job of like watching other funny people like i'm like going these shows and just watching other people be funny and i'm like you know i don't want to stop doing comedy because i get to watch all these other people be funny and i was like that's the most endearing thing i've ever heard a stand-up say like he had this excitement like it was christmas morning and he was like like i'm sorry i have to leave because it's like you guys are really funny like i just

want to watch other funny people yeah and i was like this guy's sorry I have to leave because it's like, you guys are really funny. I just want to watch other funny people. And I was like, this guy's the fucking best. He's the best. He's like the purest human being. It was a lot of praise for Gerard Carmichael. I like him a lot.

I'd like to plug the Carmichael show. He's a great show. Do you guys watch it? It's really good. I've seen all of the first season. Second season, I would say,

I mean, it's just very consistent but maybe even a little better. I also asked him a lot about Mike Scully, who works on that show. Former Simpsons writer, right? He said Mike Scully's the coolest. Good plug. Watch the Carmichael show. Follow James on Twitter.

Follow James on Twitter. I'm David L. Simms on Twitter. We never plug our Twitter. Oh yeah, I'm Griff Lightning. Rate and review. Listen to other UCB podcasts. Oh yeah. Also, I'm Griff Lightning on the Star Wars Card Trader app. A listener recently traded me a good TC-14 card. I appreciate that.

Very cool. Very cool. I'm getting so punchy right now. We have to record a second episode today. Our next episode, The Village. The Village. The Visit. The Visit Village. The final Night Shyamalan movie. We're a second episode today. Our next episode, The Village. The Village. The Visit. The Visit Village. The final Night Shyamalan movie. We're going to do a bonus episode with The Buried Secret and some other, I think, appendix type material.

Oh, Jesus. When are we going to do that? I don't know. Well, we'll see if we do that. I want to move on, but whatever. I want to do one more to wrap stuff up because I think I can pull off something interesting. We might do that later. God knows when we'll do that.

Our next episode is The Visit with Gas Lewis-Pitesman of BuzzFeed. We'll be recording that in half an hour, but you folks will listen to it a week from now. And love you all. Yep. As always. And as always, just keep ghosting. Keep ghosting. Keep ghosting.

This has been a UCB Comedy Production. Check out our other shows on the UCB Comedy Podcast Network.