Blank Check with Griffin & David - Amistad

Episode Date: February 5, 2017

Griffin and David look to Spielberg’s next film (also released in 1997) Amistad. But what are the glaringly problematic issues with this movie? Could a more suited director and screen writer have been brought onto the production? How long has Sir Anthony Hopkins been phoning it in exactly? Together they examine the career trajectory of Matthew McConaughey, Peter Firth receives comedy points and assess the cast in a performance review.

Blank Check with Griffin and David Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check Your Honor, I derive much consolation from the fact that my colleague, Mr. Baldwin here, has argued the case in so able and so complete a manner as to leave me scarcely anything to say. However, why are we here? How is it that a simple, plain property issue should now find itself

a noble to be argued before the Supreme Court of the United States of Podcasts? Great. I think you said scarcely instead of scarcely. I don't know. Who fucking cares? Put your Amazon Kindle down. We're accepting that? Yeah, yeah.

Fourth time's the charm. Hi, everybody. My name is Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims. Welcome to Blank Check with Griffin and David. Yes. It's a podcast about movies, filmography. We look at directors who have had massive success early on get a series of blank checks

to make their own crazy passion projects and sometimes not passion projects but just are able to do weird things that people who don't have massive success can't do that's a good way of putting it less clearly than I've ever put it before sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce

baby this is a mini series about the films of one Stevie Spielberg Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby. Great. This is a mini-series about the films of one Stevie Spielberg. Yes. It is called Pod Me If You Cast. That's right. And it's about Steven Spielberg, the Dreamworks here. His life post-Oscar.

This is technically his first Dreamworks movie we're talking about today. Yes. Our first episode was about The Lost World, but that was, you know, it was a universal picture. We were flubbing it a little bit. But, you know, it was post-Oscar, and we wanted to talk about The Lost World, and we did not want to open our series with Amistad. Amistad. Our second episode is about the film Amistad. Gary, listen to a couple white guys talk about a white guy making a movie about slavery.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, on one hand, we're very qualified to talk about this because this movie

was made by white men who shouldn't have made it. And it was made for white people. Right. Like, for real. On that hand, we are qualified

to talk about this. But on the other hand, shouldn't we all be just disqualified from life and criticism forever? I agree. Ban all white men. 1997 is the year

that Titanic came out. And boy, people loved it. Some men. 1997 is the year. The Titanic came out. And boy, people loved it. Some Good Will Hunting is that year? The Full Monty. Full Monty. Oh, a classic. There's no Pixar film, but America somehow stays strong and makes it through to 98 when a bug's life will sweep the nation.

Paul Thomas Anderson makes his mark with Boogie Nights. Oh, and what a mark it was. You've got, oh, some great blockbuster sci-fi comedies like Men in Black. The Waterboy. Air Force One. Very rewatchable. The Wedding Singer. The Fifth Element.

Oh, great. The Man Who Knew Too Little. My Best Friend's Wedding. I'm a huge fan. Yeah, I caught some of that on TV the other night. That movie's still charming. Production began on The Phantom Menace this year. How exciting.

And also Amistad came out. The Palme d'Or went to the taste of cherry. And Amistad did 46 domestic. You know it's box office total? I think I'm very close. If you want to look at it, I think it's 46. I know for a long time it was- Let me just space this out as long as possible.

For a long time it was one of, I think, only four Spielberg movies that hadn't made $100 million. 44. I was close. Very good. No worldwide gross even listed. Wow. It may not have even come out elsewhere.

It came out in Britain. I remember it. I remember it coming out in Britain. I lived in Britain. People had almost odd fever. No, they did not. Everyone was dressing up as John Quincy Adams for Halloween that year. Okay.

What the fuck is this movie? Yeah. Okay, so the year is, I guess, I mean, 96, if we want to go into the fucking development of this thing, right? Yeah. Well, let me try and get some info for you. Well, I got some information. I got something for you, okay? I have some, but okay.

Go ahead. Debbie Allen. Yes. Do you know this? Yes, I do. Debbie Allen, the actress from Fame, got really into the Amistad story. It's a fascinating tale, which we will touch on. And she got a bunch of the books,

and she brought them to HBO Films. Something you want to note is that Debbie Allen is in the film Blank Check in a small role as Yvonne. I recently got put on blast for the fact that our podcast isn't about that movie. Okay. Who put you on blast?

Two Dope Queens. Yeah, you were on Two Dope Queens a while back. Yeah. At the time this comes out, yeah. So Demi Allen, who's an actress and she does a lot

of TV directing now, like a lot of TV. She's a lot of TV directing now. Yeah. Like a lot of TV. She's a very prolific TV director. Right. Loved the story of La Amistad. She goes to HBO Films and she's like, look, I read all these books. I think it's an interesting story.

There's a good movie here. HBO was like, we're kind of interested. And she goes to DreamWorks to see if they want to jump in on the ship. Joke intended. Yeah. Was it a good to jump in on the ship, joke intended, and jump on the ship. And they were like, fuck that, we're going to make this whole thing. Yes, Steven Spielberg, who I guess is sort of,

he's casting around for something to do after The Lost World, right? Yes, but what I read was that, so he's making Lost World, that's his first movie in like four years, right? And it's him that so he's making Lost World. That's his first movie in like four years, right? And it's him doing something he's done before. It's a sequel, right? Which he's only done once before

in his career. And I mean twice if you count the time. Yeah. He's not sequelizing his own properties, right? Okay. That DreamWorks acquired it not originally with the intention to have him direct it.

Yes. They hired a screenwriter, they developed the film. David Franzoni. And at some later point in time, Spielberg was like, you know what, fine, I'll make it. Sure.

And the movie very much feels like he was like, yeah, I'm free Sunday, let me direct Amistad. Yeah, it's worth noting that he did not even work on the post-production much of this film because he was making Saving Private Ryan, which comes out the next year. So he did kind of squeeze it in.

He has three movies come out within a 12-month period, right? I mean, Lost World comes out in 14 months. Lost World comes out in May. This comes out in December, and then Saving Private Ryan comes out the following July. And so it's like he was overlapping this shit. I think to some degree he's got his usual crew, and he's just going like, you know what I like. Yeah, it was shot by Eunice Kaminsky, who's now a regular cinematographer.

Right. After Schindler's List, it was edited, I'm sure, by Michael Kahn, his editor. But it's like, he's shooting one. John Williams did a nice enough score. It's fine. Oscar nominated. It lays it on a little thick. But it's like, he shoots one, and then he's like, okay, you guys post this, let me go It did a nice enough score. It's fine. Oscar nominated. It lays it on a little thick. Yeah.

But it's like he shoots one and then he's like, okay, you guys post this. Let me go film the other one. And then he films the other one. He's like, now you guys go post this. I'm going to film the third one. Yeah. In the same part, Ryan feels like the only one he really took to the finish line. I think that he's partly like trying to get DreamWorks going.

So he wants to work, you know, and he wants to get his name on stuff. And on its face, this seemed like a big, prestige-y Spielberg movie that would put them on the map. Maybe, but yes, that is true. But also, I think he probably thinks, you know, oh, maybe this movie might not happen if I don't put my name on it or whatever, right? Like, I don't know if he, I'm, that's a guess. Look, I don't know. Well, and here's the thing.

In most circumstances, I think you were right, right? And like, there, you know, when people talk about like, why the fuck did he direct Color in most circumstances I think you were right right and like you know when people talk about like why the fuck did he direct Color Purple that was not the right guy to direct that right yeah this is what's worth noting he had already made the Color Purple and when that came out people were like Steven Spielberg should not be making

the Color Purple like that whole argument had already happened in the 80s and I think he like we've talked about he's pretty good at self-analysis and he like took that to heart and was like, I'm proud of the film I made but I agree I probably

wasn't the right person to tell the story. He has talked about that since, yeah. Right. And The Color Purple is like a very well-acted film, kind of like this film.

Yeah. But it definitely, yeah, it's got the totally wrong vibe. Yes. You know, for the story it's trying to tell. Got a weird style.

Yeah. It's too like, staid and stately. I mean like this movie is way worse. This movie is worse than The Color Purple. No question. Because I mean I think the screenplay of this movie is a mess. Yeah. Color Purple the source material is so good and obviously the

innate story of Lyle is fascinating. But this movie doesn't know what story it wants to tell within the events. You know, whereas Color Purple is very well cast in a book that you kind of can't fuck up if you just tell it. Right. But there have not been a lot of good

American movies about slavery. No. At this point especially. Sure. And maybe he's just thinking like, well, this is a story that needs to be told and I've got the clout to tell it like whether or not I'm the right person for it. Well that's this is where I'm going to fight you on this okay because it's like Color Purple

I agree that like even okay you know the book's huge but maybe the movie wouldn't get made without Spielberg or at that certain budget or even someone who wasn't Spielberg might not have had the cachet to cast Oprah and Whoopi, who were both like unknown at that point in time.

Right. Yeah. Like he that's a movie where it needed someone like Spielberg with the juice in order to get it made, even if creatively that was the wrong thing. Right. But this film, he is now the head of his own studio. True. Which means you're saying he could have.

He could have. He could have say like George Lucas did with Red Tails, like, you know, made sure that the cast and crew... He could have said, I'm buying the rights for this, and guess what, Spike Lee, you're directing Amistad. That's what... I want to plant the flag here at DreamWorks. Totally good call. You know?

He could have done that. You fucked up! And to that degree, this is, like, a real white privilege movie. Like, its existence is kind of... Okay, I'm looking at a list on Wikipedia right now called List of Films Featuring Slavery, just to kind of back up what I was saying, on Wikipedia right now called list of films featuring slavery. Just to kind of back up what I was saying. Because there really aren't.

Apart from like exploitation movies. Yes. And like racist movies from the 20s and 30s. TV miniseries. And lots of that. Obviously Roots had been a very big deal in the 70s. Like Return of the Jedi is on this list. Excuse me.

That is not a film featuring slavery. Slave Leia though. Yeah. That's what's cited as the evidence to include it on this list. Do you know that our country's garbage? Yeah, it's pretty bad. Like, it's garbage when you look at the history of what's happened in this country, and it's garbage when you look at people processing our history by being like, well, yeah, but

Return of the Jedi's about slavery, too, right? That's a good call. The Rancor, he's a slaver. You know. You know, let's not. Let's not. Let's not kid around. Yeah. Hey., let's not. Let's not. Let's not kid around. Yeah.

Hey. No fun. Hey. I don't know. I don't know if I'm jumping the gun. No, I'll save this for later. Ben, cut that out. He's probably not going to.

Ben, please cut that out. Okay. Producer Ben? Yeah, yeah. The Benducer? Hey. Purdueer Ben? That's me.

The Poet Laureate? I've written poetry. The Peeper? I'm looking at you. Birthday Benny? Hey, I'm 31. The or Ben? That's me. The Poet Laureate? I've written poetry. The Peeper? I'm looking at you. Birthday Benny? Hey, I'm 31. The Tiebreaker? You want me to decide, I'll tell you what.

The Fuckmaster? I'm good in bed. Not Professor Crispy? Don't you dare. Dirtbag Benny? I ride him. Hello, Fennel? You could say it to me on the streets or in the sheets.

Graduated certain titles over the course of different miniseries. That's true. Also went to college. Producer Ben Canove. Mm-hmm. Caliban. Yeah. Ben Tate.

Yep. Ben H. Amlan. Yeah. Say Benny thing. Dot, dot, dot. T. Ben Thousand. Yeah. Slash Ailey Benz.

We still haven't decided. I still really like Ailey Benz. Maybe it's Ailey Benz. I think it's Ailey Benz. I think Dan Daddario is a good judge, because he came up with Save Anything as well. Cut that out, Ailey Bentz. Okay.

I don't even remember what you want. I don't either. We're back. We're back. So Amistad. Yeah. Essentially what you were saying, and you made your point,

so let's move on, is Spielberg could have used his clout to get the right or a more suited director to tell this story. Also a more suited screenwriter possibly to tell this story. I agree. Also not to be confused with Amadeus.

No they are different films. Very different. I went into this I was like we're gonna play piano and stuff. This is real. Listen to this. I was excited. I was like, we're going to play piano and stuff. This is real. Listen to this. I was excited. I was telling my roommates, I'm like, oh, man, we're going to watch this movie about a composer. And I always like a good powdered wig.

And they were like, what are you talking about, Ben? And then I realized my mistake. Yeah. Very different. Amadeus, good movie. Yeah. Best picture winner. One of my favorites. I hadn hadn't seen in a while i was like excited but uh nope this is a this is a sort of a different sort of tone yeah kind of movie um so you know there's there's like obviously a huge ongoing conversation

right now right culturally we have about about who should be telling what stories. How do we allow a diversity of voices behind the camera, writers, directors, to tell different types of stories in this way? And also, what kinds of stories should we be telling? Maybe we don't need the same story told over and over again. story told over and over again you know maybe some people are sort of sick of this slavery oscar movie or what you know as like uh uh the place for an african-american director yes like be heard right and i think yes i do think there in lies the bit of the gordian knot in this argument which is like you go like you know this argument sometimes of like the people who have the right to tell the story are the people who have lived through this thing,

or it's very close to them. But you also don't want to say to any filmmaker you can only make films about the things that you've lived through. Sure, of course. Because A, then you're going to get stuck with a lot of fucking boring movies.

Right. And B, you know, what's exciting to me is that Ava DuVernay is doing A Wrinkle in Time. It would be really annoying if we said you're only allowed to make movies about civil rights cases. Yeah, no, I mean, yeah. You know, because she should be allowed to make whatever fucking movie she wants

yes okay that having been said I think you can tell the difference between when a director is strongly connected to the story and invested in some way whether it's because of their own personal experience or a cause that they really care about and this to me feels like Spielberg just being like oh that's an interesting story. But it doesn't feel like he's dying to make this movie anyway. I think that's probably true. I would love to ask Steven Spielberg. Well, he's going to be our guest next week.

About that. I do think that it's interesting that he eventually makes what I would say is a much better version of this movie, which is Lincoln. This feels like a dry run for Lincoln, this whole movie. Now, Lincoln also has its flaws that were pointed out at the time, but they are way less glaring because he is making a more movie about the corridors of power and about, like, the sort of

legislative and judicial, like, you know, weird, like, greasy work that you had to do to, like, make things happen. Yeah. Amistad wants to be about that, but knows it can't just be about that so it's sort of sinke's story but not really and it kind of sidelines him in a way that's sort of upsetting yes exactly and so it like the movie as silly as this sounds like amistad does kind of come alive

a little moment when it's this like court stately courtroom drama yeah about like the weird legal uh sort of potholes like that they were trying to swerve around and like the like the bizarre house of cards that america had built about slavery in which it was like well we know that like this this and this isn't human but the institution is still important we can't get rid of it or what you know like the weird political balances at play well because clearly that's what he was interested in. And that was a milieu he hadn't worked in yet. And you see that come to full bloom in Lincoln. But watching this, you're kind of like, yeah, but that's not really what this story is.

You're focusing a little too much on the wrong thing, it feels like. True. And also the problem with this movie is it tries to have its cake and eat it. It tries to wrap things up with a bow, where at the end it's like, they got their freedom. And it was so important in American history that this happened. It's like, well, no, it wasn't. Like, it took decades more for this to even begin to be addressed. And like, you know, the Civil War won't break out for another 25 years or whatever.

That's a big thing. They keep on going like this might lead to Civil War. And it's like indirectly in a very long tail. Much larger snowball that, yeah, is beginning to build. In the sense that everything that happened in between America's founding and the Civil War

led to the Civil War. This led to the Civil War. But it's like okay Lincoln that's clearly the moment he was fascinated by. Right? He's fascinated by that shift

and that conversation and this movie tries to And it was a movie you know he wanted to make Lincoln for years. Maybe not at this point but he certainly spent a long time trying to make that movie. But he tries to and it was a move you know he wanted to make lincoln for years maybe not at this point but he certainly spent a long time trying to make that movie but but um he tries to use this story and this case as a microcosm for the larger shift that was happening even

though the story is premature in terms of where how these movements actually, you know, took hold. I just want to read the Wikipedia section here because this movie got a lot of criticism for historical accuracy, okay? Yeah, no, there's, yeah, no. There's some good stuff in there. So this is Columbia University professor Eric Foner said, in fact, the Amistad case revolved around the fact that the Atlantic slave trade by 1840, outlawed by international treaty, had nothing to do with slavery as a domestic institution whatsoever.

In Congress, as it may seem, it was perfectly possible in the 19th century to condemn the importation of slaves from Africa while simultaneously defending slavery and the flourishing slave trade within the United States. Which this movie, at the end of this case, they make it seem like. And now everything's different. It's Roe v. Wade, which it wasn't. This end of this case they make it seem like and now everything's different it's roe v wade which it wasn't this case was this case no i mean it was an important case and a lot of issues boiled up to the surface but yes of course it did not lead directly to anything like it was a weird incongruity that yeah there is such a striking human story at the center of this case that to try to make this case to mean something beyond what it did is

like a little stupid to me because it's like just tell the story of what actually happened. Don't try to connect dots that are pretty far away from each other. Also worth noting that Eric Foner was once married to Naomi Foner who went on to marry Stephen Gyllenhaal and become

Naomi Gyllenhaal and give birth to Maggie and Jake Gyllenhaal. And she wrote Running on Empty. But he is not the father of those people. Yes, she wrote Running on Empty. Amistad's problems go much deeper than such anachronisms as President Martin Van Buren campaigning for re-election on a whistle-stop tour in 1840. Eric, chill out.

Who gives a shit? That's fine. It's a cinematic device. I am out on Eric Foner with that. You can have him campaigning. Yes, it's incong device i am out on eric foner with that like you can have him campaigning yes it's an incongruity they didn't campaign like that yet america was really too small and the way the elections worked were you know you don't have to reach the populace at that point in time okay come on i agree we have to understand that he is campaigning for president it is okay to show him on a train in one scene here Here's another thing. Morgan Freeman's character didn't exist. Yeah, that's okay, though.

At all. No, but I think it's important for the movie to note that those kinds of activists existed at the time. And insert him. He doesn't play any kind of role in the movie is more the problem. Yep. He's more just there to be like, in real life, everything that his character did

was done by Austin Pendleton's character. Austin Pendleton's character? Only in like one scene where he's trying to translate before they find Chiwetel Ejiofor. Uh-huh, right.

And he's sort of the mousy guy. Right. And he sort of like got things in motion and hooked Sure, sure. McConaughey up and then sort of takes a back seat motion and hooked McConaughey up and then sort of takes a back seat I think they wanted to see different types of activists

I think they wanted to have a free black man in the film which makes sense and also not just make it a movie about a bunch of white people helping yeah but at the same time maybe this is where you should start to realize like oh this is going to be a tough story to sell to tell.

Maybe make the movie about St. K. Yeah, maybe. Or just maybe have different people make it. You're offsetting a lot of the sort of questions people are going to ask about the movie when they see it. That's what I kind of do. You know. Yeah.

Okay. So the plot of the movie is, you know. So the opening of this film is very strikingly made. I want to say a few things off the top of the bat. This is a very well-acted movie. This is a gorgeous-looking movie. It's a well-designed movie. I think the problems are more inherent to what we're talking about.

The scripts are a mess. And the scripts are a mess, and the plot just kind of veers. It feels like you're reading a history textbook at times. The best thing you could say about this movie is it's well-intentioned. And that is a huge criticism, right? It's that sort of backhanded thing like okay. You know, like that's how I feel watching this movie. Right.

Okay, Steve. Okay. Fine, yeah. It feels like it's only designed to be watched in history class over like five periods except for the fact that so much of the history is incorrect. I watched this film in history. Yeah, it seems like the place to watch it. Ben, I think you also did.

I did as well. And you still thought it was Amadeus? Yeah. I don't know. I misremembered it in my mind. Hey, one thing though that we can all agree, damn good muttons. Yeah, that is true.

I'm loving them chops, baby. The hair in this movie is great. Yeah, good mutton chop. Yeah, that is true. I'm loving them chops, baby. The hair in this movie is great. Yeah, good mutton chop. I've been told before... Hopkins is especially. Yeah, he looks great. I've been told before when I'm acting and stuff like hair and makeup people, the hair people

are always like, you should really do period stuff. Because my hair naturally kind of looks like Matthew McConaughey's hair in this movie. And my facial hair, I cannot grow, as you see before you,

a strong, consistent beard. Right. But I could certainly get that little... You could have the tufts. Right. So I'm just throwing out my little flare gun right here.

Anyone wants to cast me as some sort of... I could see you as a meek Union soldier in the Civil War or something like that. Yeah. Or even just kind of like

a Rick the Intern in a colonial era. Do you know what I'm saying? Sure. Like the assistant to, it's the day of the big war draft. Maybe the preacher, the new preacher at like a church. And he's very nervous. Very nervous preacher. Yeah.

Who like doesn't, you know, and like someone's coming to you for like sex advice in the 19th century and you're like stammering and looking down at your Bible a lot. And then you spill coffee all over. Yeah. Wait a second. He breaks my abacus. Sorry, I've been sipping on my dick all day. Here's another part I've always wanted to play.

A piano player at a saloon. That'd be fun. And I stop playing the music. And then the guy goes, did I tell you to stop playing? And he shoots at my feet and I go, dun dun dun dun dun. Yeah, that'd be good. I want to just go on a brief little side track here.

Boy, okay, I'll allow it. I just saw a film that at this point will have come out and maybe been nominated for and won Oscars, I have no idea. That's also a white guy making a movie about a piece of black history that's maybe under-discussed in this country called Hidden Figures. Oh, yeah.

But it's quite an excellent movie. Really? Yes. And, you know, of its type, which is the sort of inspirational true story drama, but it's very, very good. And Ted Melfi, who I've never given two shits about. The same boat. I would not say Ted Melfi is the reason that movie is good, but he does a

competent job. Good cast, good story. Exactly. And he gets out of the way. And you know who's great? Obviously the lead women are fantastic, but you know who's great? The cause. Yeah, Kevin Costner. Terrific. Can I follow motion to officially start calling him the cause? we stripped Bill Cosby

of the cause rights and Cosner I think it's too loaded I think you can't do it I want to bring the cause back and give it to a man who deserves the title Ben can you isolate

I want to bring the cause back and just just put that out there alright no alright the cause is a great man anyway and I speak of course

of Kevin Costner so the plot of Amistad is that there. So, the plot of Amistad is that there's a slave ship called La Amistad, which is coming from Cuba to the United States. It has, there's

a mutiny led by Cinque. Cinque? Cinque. Cinque. That overthrows, this is like the first, the whole part of the first part of the movie is just on the boat, right? It doesn't cut anywhere else. Yeah, like first 20 minutes are just on the boat. is like the first the whole part of the first part of the movie is just on the boat right it doesn't cut anywhere else yeah like first 20 minutes

are just on the boat and then the first time we cut off the boat is to Anna Paquin oh it's Queen Isabella great little two scene performance actually she's really funny she's really good at hopping on that bed

yeah so yeah like they overthrow the Spanish slavers they basically take over the ship there's like they leave the navigator alive but even like the very opening of this is so ship. There's like, they leave the navigator alive. But even like the very opening of this is so striking where it's him trying to pull the nail out of the floorboards.

And it's like very muscular, visceral filmmaking. It's really frightening. There's like a lightning storm, you know, it's like pitch black, heavy shadows. Um,

and it is like, it's, it's, it's kind of stirring, you know? And then you watch this very upsetting, very violent, like, even though you know this character is the hero, you know, this is a necessary revolt. Yeah, no, but it's supposed to be tough, and it is tough.

I like that he makes it tough. I do like that he makes it. The violence is very visceral. Right. And he's played by Jamon Hounsou, we should note, in not a debut, was it a debut performance? He had done very, very little before this. He's in Stargate, right.

Right, that was his only real part before this. Yeah, apart from that, he'd had a couple extra parts, essentially. Yeah, I think Stargate was the only film he had been in where he had a character name. He had done voiceover on one thing, I believe, and then he had done Club Go he had like a character name. He had done like voiceover on one thing I believe and then he had done like a club goer and shit like that.

We'll talk about him in a bit. We'll talk about him in a bit. Do you know who Steven Spielberg originally offered the role to? No. Cuba Gooding Jr. Oh sure. Okay. That would have been a disaster. That probably wouldn't have worked. I guess Cuba Gooding Jr. was though he was like a hot name at the moment. It was right off the Oscar.

Coming off of Jerry Maguire. But Bajaman, quite a discovery in this film. Excellent in it. And just, you know, Jaimon Honsu, he is from Benin, I think. That is an African actor, probably better suited to the role of an African than someone like Cuba Gooding Jr. would have been. I agree with that, yes. I think Jaimon Honsu grew up in France, but have been. I agree with that, yes. I think Jaimon Hunsu grew up in France, but he has the right accent.

Cuba Gooding Jr. has also never shown any facility for dialects or doing any voice different than his own. That's a good point. Are you thinking of O.J.? Yeah, but even in general. I mean, he's able to be Cuba Gungor Jr. and nothing else. He was pretty good in OJ for someone who was not doing a good OJ.

I agree. And this is a large argument that I have with a lot of people. I think objectively that's a good performance in a bubble. If you can't get over the fact that he's not OJ then I understand that and I can't fight you on that. But I think it is a good performance on its own merit. It's just not an accurate depiction of OJ Simpson. then I understand that and I can't fight you on that. But I think it is a good performance on its own merits. I think it's a decent performance. It's just not an accurate depiction of O.J. Simpson. If you're looking for an imitation of O.J., you're off.

It's not even a really good representation of him. Yeah, I agree. You know? But I think it's a good performance on its own. Okay, so yeah, open with him, the revolt. The revolt. They try to get the navigators to steer the ship back to Africa, but the navigators, whatever,

get them to the shores of America instead, probably hoping, I think they were definitely hoping to get back to Cuba, but they were at the very least hoping to not have to go back home. They were hoping to get protection wherever they landed. Can I just read Shaman Hansu's character names before Amistad?

Yeah, okay. Ex-boyfriend in Without You, I'm Nothing, Can I just read Shaman Hansu's character names before Amistad? Yeah. Ex-boyfriend in Without You, I'm Nothing, which is a filmed version of a Sandra Bernhardt monologue, right? Nightclub doorman in Beverly Hills 90210. Prisoner on bench in Unlawful Entry. And then he was the voice of Moisey in Killing Zoe and Horace in Stargate. So Amistad is like a huge pop for him. Yeah, absolutely. That was all he had done before.

I think he was a model. He'd been in music videos. I believe he was discovered homeless. The story is that he was a homeless guy, and they were like, that's the best-looking person I've ever seen, and they whisked him into models. He arrived in France, he dropped out of school, he became homeless for a time,

he met a photographer who introduced him to a fashion designer who said he should be a model. Right. By the late 80s, he was a model with a career in Paris. He is one of the best looking people in history. He is an absolutely gorgeous person. It's insane. And I mean, now he's like 52, still pretty much absolutely gorgeous. They landed in America.

Yeah. Yeah. But not in America, the film for which John Hunsu received his first Academy Award nomination. It was his first, but it should have been his second.

After this? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he should have been nominated for this. Was it category confusion that did him in?

Well, that's, I think- Because he got a Globe nomination? He got a Globe for Lead Actor. Right. They pushed him as lead. This movie, I would argue,

doesn't really have a lead. No, but you could push him as... You could, but it's... Yeah. His role is a little sidelined. I mean, this is the thing you get into. If you were to push him as lead actor... You have to because you're pushing Anthony Hopkins as supporting.

Right. So you have to push him as lead. But here's the problem. You look at... He disappears for vast parts of the movie. Right. And so if you look at the dudes who he would have been contending against in 1997, they all have a lot more screen time

and more scenes than he does. There's no question. So it's hard for him to compete because it's like less meaty of a lead role, only in the sense that he's not that leading. You know, it's a weird year because he's up against, okay, Damon in Good Will Hunting. This is the Golden Globe nomination for best actor

drama, just to be clear. Roberto Benigni. No, he's comedy. Yeah, that was a comedy. Quote, unquote. Right. Ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha! Leonardo DiCaprio for Titanic was another nominee. What's weird about this

year is the only nominee in the there's only two out of the five are drama nominees. Because you've got Nicholson, you've got Panini, and you've got, I guess, Ian McKellen? Maybe he didn't get one? Yeah, I don't know. Nick Nolte for Affliction, is he in there?

Oh, maybe Nick. No, he's not. He's not in the Globes? Wow. So who are the other? Daniel Day-Lewis in The Boxer. Oh, boy. Which is a decent performance, but a film that did not hit.

And no one ever talks about. Peter Fonda in Uli's Gold. Oh right he got nominated. And won the Golden Globe. What a weird year. Uli's Gold. Not a bad movie. But that was clearly biased because it had gold in the title. And Leonardo DiCaprio. For? Titanic.

Big hit that year. But was he in two? You already said he was nominated. Was he nominated in two? Oh I was talking about that. Did I not mention him yet? Did I already mention him? Hunsu, DiCaprio, Damon, You got it.

Fonda, and Dave Lewis. You got it. Yeah. Hunsu's phenomenalness, when it starts out, Very good. I was like,

okay, this is going to be his story. And it is, at times. And then it gets to America, and this movie kind of does like a relay race. A relay race? A relay race. There we go.

Right? Yeah. This movie just kind of passes the baton. It's like, hey, why don't you take it for 15 minutes? And then McConaughey's like, I have to go to the bathroom. Morgan Freeman, can you take these two scenes? Sure. And then Morgan Freeman carries it and then he's like, hey, Shaman, it's been a little while. Do you want to? And he's like, yes, I'd love to take over the film. And then he gives him the film for a little bit. But then he realizes like, hey, Shaman, it's been a little while. Do you want to? And he's like, yes, I'd love to take over the film. And then he gives him the film for a little bit.

But then he realized, this finish line is actually a while away. Who's this guy with big white mutton chops in a watering can? Yeah. Who's this waistcoat-wearing dude? Hopkins shows up. He's like, sorry I'm late. Now, Hopkins is still movie star Hopkins at this point. Like, he'd been in Nixon the year before,

maybe two years before. Yeah, I mean he's in a mode right now where he gets nominated almost every time out, right? He's getting nominated almost every year. Is that true? Well, he got nominated for Remains of the Day. Yeah, well he's fantastic in that. Right, he got nominated for Nixon.

Good job Hopkins. It's when Hopkins is still a good actor who does good work, even if, yes, he can be a big actor. Yes. And then after Amistad is, and then the next year he's in The Mask of Zorro, which is great fun. Uh-huh.

But after that is when he starts to, I mean, I think we talked, did we talk about this in a previous episode, how much he phones it in? Yeah. But like how he, like, what- I think we talked about it in an episode that hasn't been released yeah i think we're talking about next week about how he literally is like we'll read a script and be like great no acting required and that's what makes him sign on to a role uh yeah he got four nominations and this is his last one isn't it yeah four nominee here's the thing he gets four nominations in like seven years yeah yeah yeah

so it's less yeah it's between his last one is 97 and his first one is is 91 right and he should have been was he nominated for Howard's End he wasn't he easily could have been for that

it was Remains of the Day Amistad Nixon and this you easily could have nominated him for Howard's End which is 92 in between Silence and Remains of the Day

he's great and he's okay in Legends of the Fall. Whatever. Sure. He's wonderful in Nixon. One of my favorite performances. Never seen one. Certainly my favorite performance in him.

My number one of that year. One of the most underrated movies ever made. Strong words. Really. And then in 96, he's in Surviving Picasso, which is too terrible for him to even him at that moment to get a nomination. But certainly that's what that movie's trying to do.

And then this year, he's what that movie is trying to do. Sure. And then this year he's in The Edge and Amistad. The Edge is like an action movie starring Anthony Hopkins. Well, that's when he starts doing some more of that. Even the Mission Impossible one scene where he famously got like $5 million. No, that's two. He's in two, not one.

I'm saying the one scene in Mission Impossible. Oh, I see. He's got the one scene. I think he got paid five million dollars for it. Well, I guess he deserved, I don't know. I'll say this, the edge, it holds up. The edge is fun. It's good. And then Mask of Zorro, the next year, that's an action movie.

He has some action scenes. He rides a horse. Yeah. He does some stuff. He like, I mean, it's Stuntman probably, but you know. But then look at this, let's have it. No, Hopkins does all his horse work. He always does his horse work. And his whip work. Yeah, Meet Joe Black, which, I mean, that's a mistake on every single level.

Right. I mean, one day we'll do Martin Bress. We will definitely do Martin Bress. In the deep view. Bress cast. Instinct. Oh, gross. Oh, Cuba.

Titus. Good movie. Good movie, but very unsuccessful. Yes. Right? Didn't help him at all, but it was a good movie. movie but very unsuccessful yes right didn't help him at all but it was a good Hannibal huge hit okay hearts and lands disaster then no after Hannibal he's done right it's well no well because he does do red dragon which is also a decent hit anytime he does Hannibal he's okay right but you go bad company the human stain have you ever seen bad company it's one of the worst films it's horrendous Alexander then he gets into

this mode he's kind of fun in Alexander that's where he's just like you know what yeah you need an old guy for 10 minutes

but that's the problem then he starts getting this mode where like when he shows up in Noah it's just like oh right of course he's in this

you know like you expect him to just be in that kind of zone in Thor 1 he literally is asleep the whole movie

except there's that one moment where he's like what you are? Where he yells at Loki. One scene. Can I correct you? He's not asleep.

He's in Odin sleep. Yeah, he's in Odin sleep. He's in a deep Odin sleep. Deep, yeah. I always had kind of assumed that this nomination was just like the kind of Meryl Streep, like, they loved Hopkins. No, he's great. That's the thing. I'd never seen it.

I always had thought it was like high tide raises all ships. I don't know if I would nominate him, but it's a nomination worthy performance. It's a showy, strong, supporting performance. It's a classic Oscar performance. You know, classic, like so up their alley, especially back in the day. And it's funny. He's funny. He's got a watering can.

Yeah. He walks into one of Janusz Kaminski's famous uh pools of light oh yeah that's now showering it's it's raised on he walks into a few of those pools yeah but i'm saying because he has so much water watering yeah this is the other thing i think spielberg likes to make these period movies because he's like yo only natural light love it i want pools of light coming in from every window. And also, you see the American flag in the window, and it's like, Jesus Christ. Yeah, baby. Oh, boy.

He lays it on real thick in this movie. So just to finish the plot of the movie, it's both complex and simple, because it's like, yeah, the ship arrives in the coast of the Americas. Everyone's taken into custody, because they don't know what to do about this, because slave trading is illegal in America at this point. Yes. And these are illegally traded slaves. But like or are they because like it's not illegal in Spain.

Like so like there's a whole matter of like where where did this trading happen and like what does America do about it. Like is this a Spanish issue. Do you send them to Spain. Right. about it like is this a spanish issue do you send them to spain right is this like uh an issue where it's like no they revolted of for their own freedom which is their right because slave trading is illegal so there they should be let go you know like there's a diplomatic thing going on where queen isabella on anapaquin a little girl a little girl who is the infanta uh she wants to get the slaves back you know whatever she whatever. She thinks it's like Spain's

property. And you've got abolitionists who see this as an important case and they're right. Like, they want to litigate it. So it just turns into this legal drama. Yeah, and it's like they do the trial and then the judge is going to rule in favor of them and then the abolitionists are like,

let's get a judge who's going to be in our pocket. No, no no not the abolitionists the Martin Van Buren the pro-slavery Martin Van Buren the president at the time doesn't want to piss off the south cause he's running for president he wants to win some southern states so he

he's got some whispers in his ear he interferes and gets a little a young and handsome Jeremy Northam planted as the judge this movie is like a couple aborted trials. Like they do. Yeah, there's a lot of yelling in courtrooms. The first trial, McConaughey's withing it.

And then they go back. McConaughey plays like this trial lawyer. And he's good in it. I think he's great. That was the moment for him. He'd been, is he about to be in contact? Yes. He'd been in a time to kill.

Oh, contact came out earlier that year, right? Is it 97 or 98? I'll look it up. You know, that's when it's just been decided, like, time to get this guy. This guy's gonna be hot. Like, he'd already been in, like, Days of Confused, obviously. He had been in a Miller-like commercial. He was discovered by a casting director

at a bar who said, we're casting this Days of Confused thing. Would you want to come in for this part? Because he seemed so much like Wooderson, right? Right. He does that. He fucking pops. One of, like of like the best sort of uh you know newcomer supporting performances in a movie ever like he just like blows in that movie right blows off the screen yeah and uh everyone's like oh this guy's got some interesting charisma but it was like is he a character actor he's obviously handsome this or that he does like the fucking texas chainsaw the next generation sure he does a lot of shit.

But then the big thing is he had an audition for a small supporting part in Time to Kill. Right. And he read the script and he was like, I want to play this lead guy. And his agent was like, you can't play the lead guy. You're Matthew McConaughey. This is a big movie. They're not going to cast you. Sure.

And he went into the audition and said, I'd like to read for the lead guy. Right. And In the Room read for the lead guy and blew them away and they cast him. And it was like, who's this unknown guy? He's the lead in a Grissom movie. Grissom. Grissom. People Magazine, the next Paul Newman. They dubbed him, right? Which doomed him for a while,

I think. He got, yeah, and you're right about Contact, that came out the same year. The Newton Boys comes out in 98 and is this hyped movie that flops for both Linklater and him, so that kind of puts them on the back burner. He's in EdTV, which I think he's wonderful in, but it's another flop.

That's 99? That's 99. He's in U571, which is not a flop, but not a huge hit. And he's the lead, but it's not really a vehicle for him. And then he gives up on being a good actor, and for five solid years is basically just a shitty romantic lead. It's like the worst. It's like Wedding Planner,

How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days, Sahara, Failure to Launch. How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days did bizarrely... We are Marshall. How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days did bizarrely well. A lot of these movies did pretty well. But that one was like a mega... That did like $100 million 15 years ago.

In February. That's good. The Wedding Planner. Wedding Planner did not do as well as How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days. My point is, I remember when that movie opened so big in like variety, they were like, it finally happened. They finally found the way to make Matthew McConaughey a leading man. Boring,

romantic. Right. And it was just like, I think everyone felt like they were trying to like, this guy should be connecting. He's a good actor. He's really handsome. He's naturally charismatic. And then once they put him in a sheer man to comedy and blew up,

they were like, Oh, that's who he is. And he just bought the company line and like no but it wasn't until 2011 yes when he makes the lincoln lawyer which is a cruddy movie that he's great in right and then starts making weird movies like bernie killer joe killer joe and mud yes and then obviously he's in true detective and he's in dallas bars you know that's when suddenly everyone's like oh right he was really good he's a really reallyars. That's when suddenly everyone's like, oh right. He was really good. He's a really, really unique

cinematic presence. He is special. But 97's interesting because Spielberg picks two guys who had been anointed by the media as the next great leading man. Who's the other one? Vince Vaughn in Lost World. Oh yeah. Who at that time had that same kind of bust.

We talked about him. Yeah. And the problem with Vaughn was, Vaughn would actually be good in a Jurassic World movie playing the Ian Malcolm part. Yeah, he'd probably be good at that. I mean, it might feel hacky, but he'd be good. At that point in time. But he tried to make him too straightforward a leading man, right?

And he misused him. Sure. In this movie, I actually think he uses McConaughey well, but the movie wasn't there for McConaughey. And so it was a big deal that, oh, Matthew McConaughey's one of the leads in the new Spielberg movie. Oh, he's the co-lead in the new Zemeckis movie with Jodie Foster. And then both those movies kind of underwhelmed. And I think he's solid in both of them, but they put a stink on him.

But he also feels a little tacked on. Agreed. And he's charming. Yes. But you're also like, do I need this guy in my life? Like, I don't know. Like, you know, maybe he's just a supporting character. Like, maybe he's just a funny guy. Yes. Yeah, I don't know. I'll also say, I mean, he's obviously not as strong an actor

in those two films as he is now. He's just become such a, like, a full deal five, six, seven. This is not that interesting a role. No, but he's got some really good scenes. He's pretty good, but, like but the arc of his character is like, they think he's a trial lawyer, but he shows them that he's better than that. He's an excellent lawyer, not just a huckster.

I did the whole thing. I did his whole arc. And then Jaman Hunsu is like, they're in the background of all these scenes, and you're like, this is the most deeply felt performance. Jaman Hunsu is a dude of just insane emotional reserve, right? Well, yeah, he's someone who looks, yes, these scenes and you're like this is the most deeply felt performance like joan huntoon's a dude of just like insane emotional reserve right well yeah he's someone who looks yes haunted behind the eyes he's got he's got incredible eyes and like he can sell so much

in a look but everyone would always make jokes about like in in blood diamond like just how visceral and emotional yeah in blood diamond he does a lot of like screaming and crying and freaking out and all of that. And he's just, it never seems forced from him, right? He's really good at it, always feels earned. I think he just,

he has that in him, right? And in this movie, when he's just sitting in, like, the stands, watching something, you're, like, so invested in him. Yeah. And his journey,

his arc of what he's going through is fascinating as a character. Yeah. But it's kind of seen through the eyes of these other people being like, oh, he is interesting. Which A, feels a little condescending. Yes, it totally does. And B, we don't need to see it through McConaughey's eyes. Just make the movie about him.

Well, that's the thing. The problem with the movie, obviously, is that part of the issue that was faced at the time was that no one could speak Mende or any of the other languages that people on this boat spoke. So a lot of the middle chunk of the movie is about them trying to figure out how to communicate with them and how to make their case, right? Right, Trutella Jaffor in his first performance. So fucking good. What a good actor.

He's fantastic. What a good actor. I just hit the table. He's so good in this movie. He plays James Covey. He was a real person who could speak Mende. Yeah. He was like, I forget the exact, I can look up his story.

He was a slave who was saved, right? And was then recruited into the army. He was sold as a slave holding camp, placed on a ship, but the ship was intercepted by a British warship. Right. So he was freed. He joined the British fleet. He eventually ends up in New York. And and yes and he's discovered during this case as someone

he's someone who could speak Mende and English and he's yeah but but you're saying okay so there's you know the problem is okay the characters can't communicate with each other for most of the movie but they make this decision where for most of Xiaoman Hunsu's scenes he's not subtitled and so the scene has to play out as as a translation is required or yeah yeah which you could do it from his perspective

and just have most of them be subtitled you know yeah no I know I don't know man like a lot of mistakes are made so and we should

and then in the middle of the movie we see like this fuller dramatization of Lama Studs like you know the passage it's making across the Atlantic Ocean his capture his capture yeah and then this very very very horrifying sequence where they like offload a lot of slaves into the water they just drown them because they're too heavy or like they don't have enough food like whatever but we don't know what's happening

when it like we just know that these terrible things are happening and then we cut back to the courtroom eventually it's sort of deciphered that that's what was happening. Right. It's very visceral. It's well done. Yeah. Okay, Steve. You know, it's how I feel about this movie.

Like, okay. What are you trying to do? We all agree, you know? Egeo Ford, he had been a fellow in a very famous Donmar production in London in the 90s, in 95, I think. So that was like, that's where his initial heat came from. And Spielberg puts him in this movie. It's great.

So yeah, first trial, McConaughey's whiffing it, and he comes up with a good hook, and they're like, great. And then the pro-slavery people are like, get him out of there. They hire Jeremy Northam. Yeah, Red Van Buren interferes, Jeremy Northam, who's also sort of a hot young actor of the moment, British handsome pants. Yeah, and it never really worked. I love him.

I think he's a good actor. Love him, great actor. But he never really had the career that I think they thought. He's not a star, but he is fantastic in so many movies. Do you think some of the smaller bit kind of people, there's racist number three? Well, I gotta say, that's one thing I do think-

One thing he's got a lot of in fucking Schindler's List. It's like, yeah, you need to play anti-Semite seven. You need to play a collaborator four. And the Louis C.K. bit

about the girl who screams goodbye juice. I will say, P. Postlethwaite and David Pamer. So Postlethwaite is in Lost World which we talked about him. The Postlethwaite is over. This is the one-two punch of Postlethwaite. The Postlethwaite was

over and continued to be over. And then he left us Postlethwaiting until his death. He is, I guess, one of the quote-unquote villains of the movie in that he's the lawyer for the other side. Right. But it's a nice measured performance from a great character actor. Both he and Pamer don't do mustache twirling. No, yeah.

Pamer plays John Forsythe, who is the Secretary of State, who is interfering. I like that. It's like the audience is going to know that they're the bad guys because they're on the wrong side of history. So there's no need to play them as more villainous than they are. They're played as just people doing their jobs who are fighting for the wrong thing. Yeah, sure. Right?

Absolutely. Okay. And I think both good character actors. Yeah, that's fine. I thought we'd give them a little spotlight. Yeah, I think they're both good. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah, but that's all there is to say about that. It is a thing to, I guess it's an important thing to dramatize that yes, at the time, people thought too academically about this and people were compartmentalizing and they just sort of ignored all these evil things. things. Like the banality of evil, I guess. But it's been done better. It will be done better again.

I'm doing a lot of shrugging right now. The way the movie progresses is they keep visiting with John Quincy Adams who is a former president at this point in history. It's Morgan Freeman's the main one dealing with him. Morgan Freeman, I guess it's established that he's had dealings with him in the past. Quincy Adams, son of John Adams. He was our sixth president and then he became a congressman

after the presidency. Beer company, yeah. That's Sam Adams. Who was the relative of John Adams. I knew he was in the family. John Quincy Adams, you know, he's the only president who, he returned to the House. He was a congressman. Yeah.

After he was president. He became this, like, very, well-respected statesman. He wasn't, like, a well-respected president, but he was a well-respected post-ex-president. And one of the great plant waterers of his time. Yeah, he was kind of the Jimmy Carter of his day. It's true. Where everyone was like, you know, you had a troubled presidency, but, you know, we all respect and like you, and you seem like

a good guy. And so they keep visiting with him, and he's watering his plants. And they're like, you should really be part of the case. And he's like, well, in America, there is this thing. But he was an opponent of slave power. Hated it. You know, he was an

abolitionist in his later years. And eventually they get him on board. Yeah, they plant Jeremy Northam. And he argues before the Supreme Court. They think Jeremy Northam's going to be in their pocket, right? And then he's just like, he has the moment in the church where he's like, I got to do the right thing. So he does the right thing. And then.

And then, of course, and the tribesmen, you know, the prisoners, former prisoners, former slaves of the ship celebrate. And they're told, well, no, it has to get appealed. There's like 10 minutes where they have to explain the concept of an appeal. Yeah. They kick it up to Van Buren, and Van Buren's like, hmm, you know. It goes to the Supreme Court. Right. John Coonsey Adams gives a big speech.

Right. McConaughey writes him a letter and is like, hey, I know you're busy. If you could just come by, it would really be a big help. And he comes by and he gives a big speech that apparently he delivered on one take without flubbing a line and Spielberg was impressed with. That's pretty impressive. Good job. It's a long scene.

Holy shit. It's a really long scene. Spielberg said, because I mentioned in our Lost World episode that at the time of Lost World, Spielberg said that Apostle Thate was the best actor he'd ever worked with. And then a year after, he said Hopkins was the best actor he'd ever worked with and then a year after he said Hopkins was the best actor he'd ever worked with

well Stevie's pretty easy with the praise right but he said he didn't Spielberg was like I always thought it was like goofy when you had

to call people sir or dame or whatever and then Hopkins showed up and he did that speech in seven minutes without flub

and he was like okay you're Sir Anthony Hopkins Sir Anthony Hopkins was he sir at the time? He must have been. I'm going to find out. I don't know.

But then Hopkins brings it home and he nails these speeches and they free him. That's the motor. God, he got knighted early. Yeah, that's the movie. There's the free us speech in the court.

Give us free. Give us free, which is very powerful. Tremendously well done by Jaimon. He's a great actor. Which is when he stands up and he just says, give us free over and over again. Because he can't speak the language, but he has at least gotten that much. And he's just trying to, you know, impart like the whole, you know, these are people who are not born into slavery.

You know, we see them being kidnapped in Africa briefly. And it is, you know, I guess interesting to draw that distinction. I don't know. He wants to get back home to his family. And then the end title card, they say that he got back home and his country was in civil war and his family was gone and they were probably sold into slavery. And you're like, that's devastating. I wish the movie was about that guy. You do see that Peter Firth,

who's an actor I adore, he plays Captain Fitzgerald of the British Navy, who like the British Navy, you know, slavery had been abolished in Britain already, and so the slave trade, the British Navy was fighting against slave trade, and you see them blowing up this famous slave fortress

in Africa that was used by the spanish and i think that we have that because spielberg wants this big cathartic like you know large scale scene but it feels so tacked on it feels very fucking about and again it feels like him trying to put a bow on something that doesn't really deserve one yet. Yeah. So that's a problem. But I like Peter Firth. You know, he plays that captain. He dictates the letter.

Yeah, there's so many good actors in this. You know, to Secretary of State John Forsythe, like, as you said, like, the fortress doesn't exist because we blew it up. Yeah, okay, clever, good, two comedy points. Yeah, he gets two comedy points.

He gets two comedy points in the movie. John Ortiz taps him on the shoulder, good, two comedy points. Yeah, he gets two comedy points. He gets two comedy points in the movie. John Ortiz taps him on the shoulder and goes, two comedy points. But, I don't know. I just, like... Yeah, I mean... I mean, they thought this was going to be a big Oscar play and a big box of success, and it was neither. I think it got two

nominations in total, or three. Four. Cinematography, supporting actor, score, and what was the fourth production design yeah i mean all all deserved it's a good looking i think the music is is way overdone in this one oh you know you don't the score is not but that was in the days where they had 10 score nominees so you had to fill it out oh because it was comedy and drama scores which honestly bring it back i would love that loved it, because I like a good comedy score, and they rarely get the tip of the hat they deserve. But, nonetheless.

Nevertheless. Nevertheless. Nonetheless. Nonetheless. Never the not. Never the not. Okay. We're stalling.

Box office. Okay. Might as well. Yeah, sure. I don't, yeah. The film came out December 12th, 1997. Okay. A quarter of. Yeah, sure. The film came out December 12, 1997. Okay. A limited release.

We covered a lot because this is a month after Man Who Knew Too Little and a week before Titanic. It's right before Titanic. Okay. Which helped bury this movie at the box office. Simply noted. It made $44 million. Now, I will say, this movie opened in 322 theaters and obviously expanded later. With a per screen average of $14,000.

Made $4.6 million. Number five at the box office. That is great. Huge. I mean, you could tell. Really good. The DreamWorks people were tapping, patting each other on the back Monday morning going, we got a blockbuster in our hands.

And then it expands and goes nowhere. The film cost $36 million. It made $44 million. Whatever. It didn't hurt nobody. But it left no cultural mark. It made 44. Whatever. It didn't hurt nobody. But it left no cultural mark. No. Okay, so it opens number five.

Number one at the box office. It's a horror sequel. Halloween H2O? No. I still know what you did last summer? No. Scream 2. Correct.

I think this has already been covered in our Titanic episode. I think that was in the top five when Titanic. It opens to $32 million to make $101 on a $24 budget. It's a great hit. Number two is a film we've definitely discussed on the podcast before. We named, we used the,

turned its title into a verb in our Star Wars. Oh, Flubber. Flubber. Yeah, this is a lot of rap with our Titanic box office. In its third week, it has made $58 million. It's still flubbing along. Oh yeah, these are actually, because the third movie lot of rep with our Titanic box office. In its third week, it has made $58 million. It's still flubbing along. Oh, yeah. These are actually, yeah, because the third movie we also discussed in our Titanic episode.

Mouse Hunt? No. No. It's a comedy. It's a ripoff of another movie, a drama, starring two hit TV stars. Pretty sure we discussed this one. Oh, oh, for Rich or Poor? Rich or Poor with Tim Allen and Kirstie Alley.

How weird that that's a correct way to describe a movie. It's a comedy that's a rip-off of a drama starring two sitcom stars. Yeah, Amish, you know, hiding out with the Amish, the comedy. Number four is a sequel to

in a hit film series starring none of the people involved in the first two entries in this series. Oh, interesting. From a director that you have noted before. In a good way or a bad way? You think, I don't know. You think I kind of like him?

Well, you like a scene that he directed and acted out once on this podcast. I acted out a scene? He said you cried to this scene. Scooby-Doo? Yeah. So the director is... It's the director of Scooby...

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. It's Raja Gosnell and it's Home Alone 3. Fun way to arrive at that one. So I should admit, you know, Virtual Reporter opened number three at six mil. Home Alone 3 opened number four at five mil. Yeah. These are bombs, people.

Yeah, this is not a good time. And then the biggest movie of all time opens the next week. And then Amistad is number five. Some other movies. The Rainmaker. Oh, yeah. Remember that? Vaguely, yeah.

It's got dames. The dames. It's got Davit. Yeah. And it's from a little director called Francis Ford Coppola. And then it's the last movie he makes for like ten years, right? Basically. It's about David. Yeah. And it's from a little director called Francis Ford Coppola. And then it's the last movie he makes for like 10 years, right? Basically.

It's not until... Is it not until... Youth Without You. Or is it... Tetra comes after Youth Without You. Yeah. 10 years later. Alien Resurrection. The worst of the Alien films.

It's the worst of the main Alien films. I'm not including Alien vs. Predator. It's better than Alien vs. Predator and Alien vs. Predator Requiem or whatever. Right, right. It is the worst. I still find it watchable. Looks good. Got some good ideas.

But it's a disaster. Haven't tried to watch it in 15 years. Saw it twice back then at the peak of my Alien obsession. Hated it. Will maybe try to rewatch it in anticipation of Alien Covenant. Very excited about Alien Covenant. Maybe I shouldn't be. I don't care.

I don't care. I'm excited. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you again, I guess. I don't know. Fool me five times. Yeah, I'll keep going. I like Prometheus.

One day I'll defend it on this podcast. I like it. I don't know. Fool me five times? Yeah, I'll keep going. I like Prometheus. One day I'll defend it on this podcast. I like it. I don't hate it. I just think it misses the mark in a lot of regards that frustrate me. But I like it. You've got Anastasia. Oh, Anastasia. You probably liked that as a kid, right? I actually never saw it. I like cartoon movies.

Please, I have rarefied tastes. I don't fall for any animated pablum. Even at age how old were you? Probably tastes. I don't fall for any animated pablum. Even at age, how old were you? Probably seven. I was eight. Seven or eight. I was eight, yeah.

Eight going on nine. Yeah, Anastasia, that's the beginning of the last gasp of Don Bluth, but he does make Titan E after this one. Yeah. Yeah, which I didn't realize until recently was co-written by and

I don't know. Ben Edlund created it. Oh, wow. I gotta ask him about that sometime. You should. The Jackal which we've discussed. Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil is in there. Clint Eastwood film. Yeah. Wow. Thrilling. Mortal Kombat

Annihilation. Oh and opening in limited release in 10 screens making $35,000 per screen. Pretty great per screen average Deconstructing Harry The Woodster's back

and he's getting an Oscar nomination For screenplay? Yeah the Woodman Not the worst movie he ever made. Not the best. No I'd say it's not even one of the 15 worst movies he's ever made. That's probably true That's a benefit to making 15 movies. Probably not even one of the 15 worst movies he's ever made. That's probably true. That's a benefit to making 15 movies. Probably not even one of the best 15 movies he ever made.

It's part of that middle 15 out of 45. Where you're like, oh yeah, okay. Yeah, there are 15 that exist. What's that, in between Celebrity and Sweet and Lowdown? Where is that in the chronology? I'd put Celebrity lower and sweet and low down higher. Yeah, me too. Yeah.

You know, I want to say like we knew Amistad would be a slightly slow going podcast. Yeah. We're not the people to talk about it anyway. No, we're not. The movie's really. And he wasn't the person to make it. Yeah. It's just like there's things we're not mentioning here probably.

Like, you know, like there's probably like little scenes or details that do stand out in some way or other. I don't know. Like, I don't want to give this movie short shrift it's interesting that it exists but i think it's been wisely forgotten let's do performance review all right let's run them down here now is the performance review morgan freeman first bill which is insane as theodore jodson he's first built i think because otherwise then the billing would be McConaughey or Hopkins McConaughey, you know, then Hounsou. Well, OK, so in the end credits, they go purely alphabetical. Above the poster on the top right. Above the poster, it's Freeman, Hopkins, Hounsou, McConaughey.

Yeah, which is not alphabetical. No, and is more just. Hopkins is second on the poster? Yes. Wow. No. And is more just. Hopkins is second on the poster? Yes. Wow. Yes. Yeah. I mean, this is an NAR performance.

He's just showing up and he's doing Freeman. He's fine in it. He's always good. Oh, no acting required. He's solid. Yeah, he's fine. I can't even think of a huge scene that he has. He's fine.

He's mostly in the background. Yeah, he is. Watching other people do stuff. Yeah, it is an odd performance. It's odd, but he's solid. He's Morgan Freeman. He does. He's there. Yeah, he is. Watching other people do stuff. Yeah, it is an odd performance. It's odd, but he's solid. He's Morgan Freeman. He's there. Yeah, I mean, I guess it's a soft pass. Yeah, I'll give him a pass.

For some reason, I'm going by Wikipedia because I can't even read about it. So second listed is Nigel Hawthorne as President Martin Van Buren. Okay, this is how they do the crediting at the end of the film. They go alphabetical. ABCDEFGH. I guess F is the first in the alphabet for this cast. Interesting. Okay, this is how they do the crediting at the end of the film. They go alphabetical. ABCDEFGH. I guess F is the first in the alphabet

for this cast. Interesting. Okay. Nigel Hawthorne, I don't I mean. I think he's okay. He doesn't have a lot to do. He feels a little broad. He's a good actor. Yeah, he had been in The Madness of King George a couple years earlier. He's got Tarzan two years later.

That's going to be huge for him. He's the voice of the dad in Tarzan. Disney's Tarzan. Oh, in the film? Sure. He's quite nice in The Object of My Affection, which comes out the next year. Oh, he's quite good in Richard III, the Nazi era Richard III with Ian McKellen. That's quite a good movie. So soft pass? I think it's going to be a lot of soft passes, my friend. All right. Hopkins.

Anthony Hopkins is former president John Quincy Adams. I mean, hard pass. When you say hard pass, that sounds negative. I know, but that's why I'm doing it now because now it's like a bit. I see. Yeah, I like him. Jaiman Honsu as Joseph Sinke. The hardest to pass.

MVP. And he's MVP, right? Without question. Yeah. Right. Matthew McConaughey as Roger right? Without question. Yeah, right. Matthew McConaughey is Roger Sherman Baldwin, attorney at law. A nice solid gentleman's pass.

Yeah, B. Yeah. What the fuck are we doing? David Pamer is John Forsythe, the Secretary of State. I mean, he's kind of my Watto in this movie in more ways than one. Can you name which Secretary of State he was? What number? What number?

Four. Thirteen. Pete Possilthwaite is William Holabird. I mean, yeah. Who was later the lieutenant governor of Connecticut. Great face. Great face. Pass. Yeah, sure.

I'm not even taking part. Stellan Skarsgård is Louis Tappan. I'm going to say a soft fail. Yeah, he doesn't register not even taking part. So, on Skarsgård is Louis Tappan. I'm going to say a soft fail. Yeah, he doesn't register. He doesn't register. Skarsgård, also in Good Will Hunting this year. Yeah. Hollywood's starting to make him happen.

Yeah. They're starting to get Skars fever. You know, Skarzy had been around forever, but it's really this year that he starts hitting in Hollywood. State side, yeah. Because then after this, he's in Ronin, Deep Blue Sea, Time Code. Well, that's not great. But Because then after this he's in Ronin, Deep Blue Sea, Time Code. He's in a lot of...

Mamma Mia. Glass House. Mamma Mia is like 13 years later, man. I'm going crazy. Anna Paquin is Queen Isabella of Spain. I mean, she rules in this movie. Yeah, she rules. A+. Thomas Millian is Angel Calderon de la Barca y Belgrano.

Okay. Fail. I think he's okay. Yeah. I don't know. Why are we doing this? Chiwetel Ejiofor is James Covey. I think great.

He's great. He's a great actor. Pass. John Ortiz is Pedro Montez. Pass. It's fine. Paul Guilfoyle as Attorney. He's good.

He's the guy from CSI. Fine. Pass, I guess. Peter Firth. I already praised him as Captain Fitzgerald. I'm going to say fail this. We can fight over something. Yeah.

Great. Time breaker. Racist number five. Xander Berkeley as Ledger Hammond. We shouldn't keep doing this. This is a terrible idea. We should put Arliss Howard's in this movie for a second. Oh, yeah.

As John C. Calhoun, who was, I believe, the vice president. Yeah. No, he was an ex-vice president. He's just a racist at this point. Is he the one who makes the crack about there's nothing more depressing than a former president? And he goes, not you, sir. Yeah, maybe. Van Buren, I don't know.

So that was a great performance from Van Buren. Good job. Yeah, maybe. DeVan Buren, I don't know. So that was a great performance from Buren. Good job. Yeah, so we did well. Here's the next good news. Next week, Stephen Perl Ryan. Fun one. And we have Richard Lawson on that episode. Yeah, and then a lot of great movies that-

After that, we're going to have A.I. What my favorite Spielberg movie. One of the best. And Minority Report. Oh my God. Holy shit. Catch me if you can. Rump. Wow, I definitely shouldn't stop listening to this podcast in spite of this episode.

And then we're going to talk about another great movie that we won't name because then you might groan. We'll get there when we get there, and then we'll stay there, stuck, unable to travel for many months. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. We will. Hey, every miniseries, we're going to have one of these sort of weird episodes.

I don't know why we're freaking out. It always happens. We discussed fucking Piranha 2 and like, God knows what we've discussed on this fucking podcast. Sensate. Yeah.

Someone pointed out that Sensate's doing a Christmas episode now. Are we going to cover the Sensate Christmas episode? Yeah, I think we gotta run. We'll see. We'll see.

We'll see how our schedule goes. Okay. Well, everyone, happy February. Enjoy listening to this episode about us talking about Amistad. Oscar season is upon us. Which, Blanky Awards will be coming up soon after this. Oh, yeah. Blanky Awards.

Excited for those. Oh, yeah. We should maybe do those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, that's great. Oh, yeah. Blankie Awards. Excited for those. Oh, yeah. We should maybe do those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that's great. Everything's good. Everyone feels great about everything, and America is still dying.

America in shit shape. It is in shit shape. Also in shit shape, my bathroom. I'm saying this on mic because I want to see if my bathroom's still in bad shape by the time this episode comes out. Oh, this is my segment. It's for the record. Oh, Ben, for the record. I the time this episode comes out. Oh, this is my segment for the record. Oh, Ben, for the record. I thought it was calling the shots or whatever. No, it's for the record.

Okay, for the record. Ben, here's your segment for the record. You like the expression called his shot, though. I love that expression. I only have four expressions. I use them all the time. For the record, Rogue One. Pretty good. Okay. Oh, you're just calling that. Yeah. Okay. I'm calling it. So we're recording this right now at the end of November,

and Ben's calling that he's going to like Rogue One, which at this point, the episode we review Rogue One will have come out six weeks early. Hell yeah. Great. Thank you for listening, everybody. We have nothing else to... We're good.

We're good. That's the end of our episode. Please keep listening to us in the future. Yeah. They will, I think. I hope they do. I think so, too. Remember to rate, review, subscribe. All true.

All right to your senators. Please. Yeah. Fucking resist Donald Trump. Yes. Whatever the hell he's doing right now, and God knows what it is, it chills me to the bone to even think about it. A couple months out. But fucking, yeah, resist Donald Trump.

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