Blank Check with Griffin & David - Baby Boy with Ayo Edebiri

Episode Date: June 13, 2021

Who says you can’t go home again? John Singleton returns to South Central with BABY BOY and we imagine a trip to Tyrese’s backyard Benihana, a thing that actually exists. Special guest Ayo Edebiri (Big Mouth) returns to the pod with some crackling insights (and an inspired Shrek tangent) as we discuss the legacy of what some call Singleton’s stealth best film. Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com

That's what it's all about Podcasts and butter, baby. You little dumb motherfuckers. Yeah. Yeah, Bing Raims. Bing Raims talking about butter. Guns and butter? I can't even remember.

Guns and butter. Guns and butter. I mean, this is my favorite line from the movie, but I couldn't change the words without removing all of its value. My favorite line of the movie, but I couldn't change the words without removing all of its value. My favorite line of a movie is obviously when Jodie, played by Tyrese Gibson, says, Popeye, your bitch ass ain't gonna do shit. Yes. When he is throwing some shade at Popeye while watching a Popeye short. Right. But that's a little out of context. That doesn't really have a lot to do with the movie itself. Maybe it does. Maybe it's everything. Maybe it's the turnkey of context. That doesn't really have a lot to do with the movie itself. Maybe it does.

Maybe it's everything. Maybe it's the turnkey of the whole thing. Yeah, but come on. Ving's got the most quotable stuff in this movie. He does. Ving Rhames is unreal. The only other line I considered doing for the opening was, let me smell your podcast.

I considered it. I considered it. I consider it. Maybe I should have done it. Maybe I should. Maybe that's what I should have done. Let me smell your podcast. But, David, you infamously keep a spreadsheet of all the movies you've seen from every calendar year going back to years and years, decades and decades before you were born. And what you would nominate in every category in the Oscars for each year.

So I will throw random statements out of my ass like, oh, he'd be my winner that year. Whereas you bring receipts and you've actually done the math. I will say, speaking out of my ass, I think Ving Rhames might be my best supporting actor winner from 2001. The only thing I'll say, that's one of the most crazy loaded years of all time but yes i was thinking through it i was thinking through it because what the actual nominees are ian mckellen jim broadbent uh well ben kingsley uh ben kingsley ethan hawke uh oh ethan that's 2001. Yeah. And John Voight in Ali.

I think Ving Rhames is my winner. I mean, I... You know, some other good ones. Buscemi in Ghost World is the sort of like... The big hitter who missed out there. Fuck. You know, you got Joey Pants in Memento. You got Jude Law in AI. You got Ving, though.

Making scrambled eggs. And Baby Boy. I stand by it would be it would be a showdown between ving and buscemi that's if that i'd watch that showdown yeah yeah um our guest is allowed to speak at any time any any moment that she wants to uh butt in uh with her opinions on this but also can remain silent for the entire episode if if that is her right if she feels she's making some good faces very expressive deep consideration oh she's had a thought she's she's playing drums she's running in place yes uh yeah i was running uh this is kind of the end of like the king shit ving rames run though

right like he's he's got this run for 10 years where he's kind of like the most exciting guys in movies or anytime he's in a movie you're like just pumping your fists and you're right after this i mean i i cobra bubbles in lilo and stitch well he is he is cobra bubbles i am pretty good And you're right after this. I mean, I, I, Cobra Bubbles and Lilo and Stitch. Well, he is, he is Cobra Bubbles. I am pretty good. You are correct. That is his last performance of that run. We should say very clearly.

Our guest today is, uh, Iowa debris, uh, creator of the Kaminsky method, but also, uh, from big mouth and the, uh, uh, iconography podcast. Uh, and this is a podcast about filmographies. but also from Big Mouth and the Iconography podcast. And this is a podcast about filmographies. It's called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. I'm Ayo.

Yes, say it. Say it. Say it. We're putting you above the title this episode. It's about directors who have massive success early on in their career and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby boy. Yeah.

Baby boy. Maybe the only time I've gotten to do that joke on this podcast. Have we ever had a movie title that starts with baby before? I don't think so. Right. It's a miniseries on the films of john singleton it's called pods in the cast today we're talking about um baby boy which fits a very particular type of blank check movie which is the kind of like you can't go home again movie it's the like massive

success early on the career goes a little astray and And the director's like, OK, OK, I got it. I'm going to go back to doing the thing you all like to be doing the most. Yeah, it's funny. It's also I don't know. It's like his stealth movie that people are like, well, that's his best movie. You know what I mean? Like there are certain people who might be like, well, you know what? The Singleton's, you know, real gem is this is baby boy i think that's a wild fucking take but it's certainly a lot of movie and it it's maybe the most singleton movie um i'm still kind of i'm i'm well you can't go home again part of it i'm

still stuck on but i guess i get what you mean like boys in the hood and poetic justice we're all kind of like quieter higher learning rosewood sure and then and then he does just like shaft and it's like yes big but okay right right higher learning is like so ambitious and messy shaft is him doing like a big blockbuster and i I also think if you look at the reviews of poetic justice, we talk about this in our episode, but like Roger Ebert feels like was one of the only critics who kind of got that movie. And everyone else was like,

what is this? Like, why is he doing this now? You know, sad and wrong. Right. Right. And I feel like,

you know, Roger Ebert was like, Oh, he's like pointedly making a counterpoint movie to Boys in the Hood. Like he's doing the flip movie. He's trying to do the opposite in a lot of ways. But I think this is kind of when you read the reviews of his follow up films, it feels like Baby Boy is what everyone was expecting him to make after Boys in the Hood. They were like, this guy is just going to be like the chronicler of young black men in America. In L.A. specifically.

In L.A. Like he's just going to do different versions of this. And then he was like, I kind of want to do other things. Yeah. Yeah. To his credit. And then by the time he came back around to do this movie, I remember the press being you know him doing interviews and being like i'm look this is what everyone liked i'm doing like boys in the hood again this is my most boys in the hood movie since boys in the hood and then

the movie just kind of came out i think everyone was sort of like well it didn't really recapture the magic maybe that was a lighting the bottle thing yeah it got like good reviews but obviously yeah right you know i you asked for this movie so i just want to hear yeah because this is a movie well but because this is a movie that i kind of grew up with and it wasn't until i was an adult that i like realized that jugs was like important if that makes sense, because he was just like, this movie was constantly on replay on BET growing up, like all the time,

to the point where I did not really like this movie. You got kind of sick of this movie. Yeah, it was just always on. And there's so many scenes from it that are just ingrained in my brain because I've just always seen this movie forever. And also, when this ask originally happened, it was right before you had your baby.

Oh, that's true. I'm so glad you brought this up. almost forgot my baby girl because i requested and how and how often does this have i requested griffin to to to reference his own joke uh-huh that he made because i thought it was good uh it's something that happens almost never. Yes, because this was back in January. Yeah. But even earlier than that, I feel like months earlier than that, when we knew we had Singleton on the schedule, we threw out a longer list as one of our favorite people of like,

here are the Elaine May movies, here's Singleton, here's Musker Clements. Does any of this jump out to you? And you said Baby Boy. So then i sent you an email following up in january when we thought we were going to record this episode before david's baby came early and uh i said uh you still want to do baby boy and then i wrote sims is about to have a all caps baby girl of his own in march and then i said hello would love to do baby boy to to be honest, if that's okay. And then the next email I followed up and I said, also, you should show David this email. I think you did a great job with the whole baby boy slash girl thing.

Now I'm realizing it doesn't play as well read out. I really think it was a triumph of formatting and capitalization. I think it's a visual email. Yeah. yeah you had a space you had a graph break or whatever you went into the caps yeah right that's exactly it i mean i to be clear i did not have a baby girl my wife did but i was there sure sure and i do you were there too you're gonna do an episode with gorley about it right i'm gonna do an episode with gorley about uh yeah my wife going into labor call on on i was there too i was there too for the whole thing you were you were there too um but and she did come early she was a february girl not a march girl in the end but um i don't have a baby boy i do like baby boy the movie maybe so so i yes john singleton are there other movies that were whatever like

formative or on replay like as well like or or is it later that you come around and you're sort of like oh singleton has like a rich filmography that i i will now No, I literally grew up and have watched and re-watched Boys of the Hood, Poetic Justice, Higher Learning, Baby Boy, Too Fast, Too Furious, Four Brothers. You were watching all these movies. It just took a while for you to unify them all as one person's career.

And I think that, I mean, I think it's like a combination of things, like growing up, not really realizing like what, like what directing was and like what a director was and and what they meant and also I think there was a certain element of him like um probably being a a black man and also kind of like a relatively young black man where in my head my head I I maybe minimized it to a certain extent. And, and also, to be honest, it's like, it was on BET. And I think my brain did something where instead of

being like, wow, how cool that there is this black movie by a black director on BET. That's like a comp, like what a great accomplishment. Same with Boys in the Hood and Poetic Justice. It was more like, oh, okay, here's a BET movie because I think when you're a black person growing up and your associations with that channel are like, yeah, it's for us, but it's like this isn't for other people then or other people don't necessarily see the same value, especially when you go off to school and your base of references like it's not the same as as other people and in certain and to a certain

extent is given less worse not overtly all the time but no but it is a conversation that has been It is a conversation that has been, is being had a lot now, I feel, in like the film community and the things surrounding the film community of just like how are canons established? You know, there was that big New York Times piece about a criterion collection and how few filmmakers of color well it was so exciting to for when like robert townsend and like his movies were like on we're starting to be like put on there and not even all of them but like you know having hollywood shuffled there and like understanding the importance of that um and also like his i mean just he's another one like who his whole career to me is just like it's incredible and it's so inspiring but at the time it's just like okay cool like baps is on tv again like okay i want to watch the parenthood like five heartbeats is on tv again like oh cool raw like you know it's just you're just like sure this is like stuff for us and here we go again it's comforting and i love it but i

didn't um think i necessarily like attached a steam to it or anything and now that's changed obviously but right i mean there was like i feel like i saw some pushback to the criterion piece that was like who cares they're like a dvd company they're not like the grand arbiter of what's good but it's like but they have become a stamp of legitimacy in the same way yeah io thumbs down i agree with you where it's like it's the same way. Yeah, Ayo, thumbs down. I agree with you. Where it's like, it's the same thing as like when you call a channel Turner Classic Movies, right? And you curate a certain like rarefied air and you have serious men in suits presenting like these movies and like burnished wood like studies.

It does make any movie that plays after that introduction feel like i guess i need to take this seriously now as opposed to like what you're saying i love like if the movie's playing on bt and it has commercial breaks and like what's it sandwiched in between on the programming you know in the same way that like you know like a movie playing on tbs has less esteem, you know, than one thing on HBO or whatever. Right. It is important, like, the way we sort of, I don't know, the way these things are presented to us. And I also think it's... Yeah, and I think, you know, it's like now I can have the view of, like, wow, how great that this was available.

But I think at the time it was like, oh, cool, okay, Boys in the Hood and Baby Boy have like the same sort of association to me as like the Parkers. Sure, sure. And like a Martin rerun, which is also, again, not, I'm not downplaying the importance of either of those things. But I think just in my head, it put it in a different canon. And then I'm like, okay, Scorsese is a different type of guy altogether he's just he's just in a different school and and there we go but like this is also like by far his most like formally adventurous movie his sort of most like low concept movie like it's it's weird that it's sandwiched in between shaft and too

fast too furious like his most obviously you know commercial franchisee things that like he sort of slunk off and in between he was like i'm gonna do boys in the hood without a message and with way more kind of weird dreamy imagery and like sort of fast cutting storytelling you know like you know like it's and and he wrote this as a novel first i mean i don't know it's just like i'm trying to think of the within the blank it's it's kind of it's not his blank checkiest movie because that's probably like rosewood right that's. But in certain ways it is. I mean, I was going to make that argument. This is where like when people get like nitpicky about our definition of blank check and who is a blank check director and who isn't, what movies are blank checks and whatever. Where it's like, first of all, we fucking we were malleable with it to fit what we want to talk about.

about but also like the notion that because this movie only cost 15 million dollars it is less of a blank check than shaft costing 60 is it's like this is a wilder movie to make for 15 than shaft is for 60 like the freedom he had to have that budget for this movie to execute it in this way is bananas and that's not something that happens even if it's a smaller budget unless you've gotten to that point in your career i feel like if like having a movie where there's a scene of snoop dogg smoking weed to a bootsy collins song doesn't qualify it this as a blank check movie then i don't know what exactly a man fully open like in utero like a grown right floating in in fluid but this is like Tyrese's first movie and Snoop Dogg's first movie yeah and one of Taraji P Henson's first yeah but it's like he essentially like minted three movie stars like because the

selling point this would obviously like Tyrese and Snoop Dogg are very well known they're incredibly famous at this point in time but it still says something about the fact that like up until this movie John Singleton is kind of the biggest name attached to any John Singleton movie and even when he did Poetic Justice and it's like oh fuck he's working with Tupac and Janet Jackson it's like's working with Tupac and Janet Jackson. It's like, can you believe Tupac and Janet Jackson are in a John Singleton movie? Like it was like legitimization for them. And I, you know, in doing research for these episodes, when I do like I try to read so much of like the press from when the movie was coming out, like promotional interviews from before to try to figure out what the attitudes and expectations were like he's always front and center you know he's like the spokesperson for his

movies he was for a moment there one of those directors who became like a publicly known figure in his own right and um the baby boy press is all like he's going back to his roots. He's making the small like young man movie again. He's like going back to South Central. They're releasing it in the middle of the summer. Like it's $15 million, but it's coming out like with a major studio push, a summer release. He's got two big like music stars in it.

And then a year later, Too Fast, Too Furious comes out. And I remember like being at an amc theater walking by the too fast too furious poster looking closely at it and going like this is directed by john singleton and then when i went home to my dad i was like do you know that john singleton directed the fast and furious sequel he's like that's you must have that wrong that's impossible like if john singleton was directing a movie called too fast too furious that was a sequel without vin diesel that that we would know about that and it was like they were hiding him in the press for that movie like that

was so a for hire job in terms of the positioning of it you know although that movie is very bizarre and individualistic but i do think like this is the last time it, you know? Although that movie is very bizarre and individualistic. But I do think, like, this is the last time it's, like, a John Singleton movie kind of means a specific thing. I feel like something for me that happens, I don't know, is, like, and I'm sure you've talked about it

in, like, the other episodes, but, like, sometimes I just, it feels like lately, history is just happening every day. So things move so so quickly and you kind of like forget the importance of things and also to be honest there's no like vh1 i love the 90s so you don't really understand like i sometimes i'm like what are the big moments like what do they really mean and it's like sure he was the youngest person to be nominated for best director. In addition to being the first black man,

like breaking like so many barriers at the same time. And like, and youngest best screenplay nominee. I think we figured out as well. And, and I mean, and I, you said like your understanding of him at the time that you were

watching these movies on TV and being like, I guess he's relatively young. He's 33 when this movie comes out, which is pretty wild to consider that he's made five movies. That's insane. By 33. That's insane. That actually is crazy. Like if he had not died, there's a whole, cause like his career had sort of petered out and then it was sort of starting to come back with, you know, the TV show he was, right? You know, he was kind of like maybe igniting and like there could be just a whole second act of his career. Like his 50s, 60s, you know, like, yeah. Most likely. I mean, he, there are like things, what was the, oh, Samuel Jackson had something he was going to do with him.

I found some interview where he was talking back on Shaft and he's like, but we're on good terms now. There's like a script I've been developing with him that I think we're going to do with him. I found some interview where he was talking back on Shafty. He's like, but we're on good terms now. There's a script I've been developing with him that I think we're going to do. He said he was writing something new for Taraji P. Henson and Tyrese that wasn't literally a Baby Boy sequel, but he wanted to do another thing with them. And he just

co-created Snowfall, which actually is pretty good. Yeah. I just also am imagining like in addition to maybe that other second act like he cared a lot about black people and like when you hear like there's like interviews of him like talking about black people and especially like black people in art and i can't help but like imagine a second act where he was like producing and maybe mentoring other young filmmakers and maybe that was the period that was going to happen next but it felt like uh here's another thought i had like watching this he created movie stars out of so many uh musicians right and part of that is like there was not a very

robust crop of uh uh sort of bankable like studio green lightable young black leading men at this point in time and i have heard people criticize that it was sort of like, well, there's a self-perpetuating problem. If you only give those parts to people who aren't actors, but are known as musicians first and foremost, then you're not letting actors get those breakthrough opportunities that arguably like Morris Chestnut and Cuba Gooding got in the first movie. You're only creating a new generation of ice cubes, which perpetuates the idea of those are the only bankable black leading men of that generation right but you do look at like now in 2021 there is such a robust crop of like there's this generation of kaluuya and stanfield and michael b jordan and

all these guys where you're just like man it would have been exciting to see him get to make movies with any of those guys um yeah you know like him get to make movies with any of those guys yeah you know like and you can kind of imagine any of those guys being like now that i have clout i want to make a john singleton movie like i want to use that clout to help john singleton get a smaller film made or whatever let me get into some of the context of baby boy let's talk baby boy a little bit as you said griff, he wrote it as a novel initially. That's where the womb stuff comes from. He didn't complete it, right, but he started writing it as a novel.

And, I mean, this is the quote I have to read, Griffin. I assume you're looking at our doc on this, but it's so funny. Just like, what's the genesis of the project? And he's like, the idea came the genesis of the project and he's like the idea came from me sitting around the crenshaw mall south central la watching these cats they walk in with no shirts on they're like 20 years old they're flirting with teenage girls one minute then some other guys come to the mall and there's a fight i thought i want to write about one of these cats what's he doing with his life just wandering around aimlessly all of the

hero's actions are defined by his fear of dying he has this i don't give a fuck attitude that allows him the freedom of not realizing he's afraid so he's just like seeing people hanging out and he's like what's up with these guys that's a movie like that that's that's what he's sort of like rubbing stones together well this is the other subgenre that this movie falls into that is one of my personal favorites which is kind of like director imagines what their life would have been like if things had gone different that this movie falls into that is one of my personal favorites which is kind of like director imagines what their life would have been like if things had gone different yeah right like because you consider that he was making boys in the hood at the age of this character yes and i think it is

it is him looking at the mall and being like, you know, I have an Oscar nomination. I've made five movies, but just as easily none of that could have happened. I had an Oscar nomination. I defied expectations, and I'm at the mall. Right, right. Like, I don't know. Like, it's the reason I love—and we talked about this extensively when we did the episode on this, but it's the reason I love Ed Wood so much is I do feel like Ed Wood is Tim Burton looking at Ed Wood and being like, I don't understand why I'm successful and this guy isn't. Like, I don't understand what the difference is between the two of us other than people like my movies and they don't like his.

And I think Singleton has that same kind of thing where it's like there's like a very fine line here uh and so much you know his films are i feel like if anything the biggest theme of his movies is like you know fathers and the lack thereof and how they define development in lives right yes um and and this is sort of like okay what what happens if I don't have a dad around? Maybe, you know, whereas like Boys in the Hood is so much about what if you get sent to your father's and he's kind of shapes your entire life? That's that all makes sense. I mean, also, there's the Tupac thing of like he's writing this for Tupac right right and it seems like he feels like a lot of kinship with Tupac as a fellow like slightly wayward person who got famous really young and was overwhelmed by it like right like you know there he's really shaken up by Tupac dying uh yeah I mean this is the amazing Tupac

uh quote which is from a Hollywood uh reporter piece where he says uh he had all, Tupac was a baby boy. He didn't know whether he wanted to be a thug or a revolutionary. He had all this brilliance, but not enough time or purpose and no mentoring at all. And by the time somebody was ready to mentor him, he wasn't ready to accept it. That's this whole thing of this generation thinking they know everything and they don't know shit.

And that was from an interview he did like late in his life in 2014 where he was sort of looking back on his whole career. But he was like pitching this movie to Tupac when they were making Poetic Justice. He was like, you know, this is your mean streets. And then now I'm going to make your taxi driver. You know, I'm going to make your raging bull. Like you're going to be my De Niro. Here's the movie I'm writing for you. It's going to be the one that like legitimizes you and gets you an oscar and then yeah when tupac died the movie sort of got like

stalled slowed down for a while right until i think he felt maybe while being gummed up in like the gears of shaft like i want to get back and make something more personal again and it is i i guess i just didn't realize that taraji had not been in anything obviously tyrese like is is a find as an actor he takes this to columbia and like they're the only studio that wants to make it because of boys in the hood they're like all right you know we can sell it as like it's a quote-unquote spiritual sequel well and this is another like thing to think about is there was a point in time where a major studio could look at a movie like this and go it only cost us 15 million dollars what's the risk we'll still release it wide in the middle of summer against blockbusters

yeah right but whatever and now studios just don't even bother with a movie this small it would not even be a consideration for them even though it's kind of hard to lose money on a movie of this size yeah i don't think this movie lost money right after after singleton died his family sued sony and they paid him half a million dollars in royalties from this movie that they had been hiding wait classic studio bullshit right yes yes um but you know it cost 15 million dollars it made 30 right you know like i'm sure sony was like yeah sorry it didn't it you know they like sold it for a bunch of money to cable and it probably sold a bunch of dvds yeah i've watched it so many times right um and i mean so yeah henson like she's basically done some tv stuff she's just like a crazy fun now

i i guess i didn't realize that like yeah she is she's like the breakout star she's so i mean she's rarely bad to rajeev henson but she is so good in this movie yes and it's sort of similar to like a lot of those other early performances i feel like that she stood at like hustle and flow where like but hustle and flow is also singleton like that singleton no i know yeah right pushing her through right yeah but just she's so like vulnerable and relatable and like kind of like so funny and so trash like she it's not like regina hall level energy that's how i felt like there were just certain scenes where it's like it reminds me of how i feel when i watch early regina hall where i'm just like you're so magnetic and full of energy and like just it like it's there you even

though she's acting it's not me deriding any acting ability but there is a thing where it's just like oh my god i feel like you're just being yourself like you're just being authentic yes even as she's playing a character which is like so cool and not easy to do no no and and taraji is just one of those like jesus christ careers are so fucking long people you know where it feels like you have like multiple kind of false starts where it's like as you said she just essentially does tv until this movie right and little little tiny yeah like guest spots guest spots after this she gets stuck on the division for 66 episodes a show that like runs for years and her and like john Hamm and a bunch of other highly capable actors just cash paychecks while not really like getting any attention.

Right. And then it really is like four years later, four brothers and Hustle and Flow, a movie singleton directs and a movie singleton produces. He pushes her through again and is like, what do I have to do to make people notice this woman? Hustle and Flow is the one where I feel like people like stand up and take attention then she's in this run of like okay now she's getting like supporting parts and shit she's in like smoking aces and talk to me and then benjamin button oscar nomination yep and then even post oscar nomination it feels like people don't really know what to do with her yeah she does a lot of movies but it's only like um tyler perry giving her like a tyler perry's the first person to put her above the title she has like you know a nothing

paycheck role in date night as one of the cops she's the mom and karate kid where she's like the oscar nominee you add to that cast to add a little bit of weight right and then you know larry crown like the think like a man movies but also at the same time she's on fucking 55 episodes of person of interest oh yeah she was the second lead she quit that show because she's like all the fucking marketing is just emerson and caviezel it's three people on the show I'm nominated for a fucking Oscar and you don't put me in any of the ads so she quits and then her career like takes off like then it finally happens we're like Empire happens Empire right yeah humongous and then she becomes a leading lady it's wild but that's like a 20-year journey essentially and she probably still doesn't get enough respect I

don't know well i david next next year she of course is voicing bell bottom in minions the rise of grew so that's when the career really peaks oh boy that's so hard being a black actor oh my god well that's the thing i mean and then tyrese they're like oh i don't like we have to have a Tyrese conversation We have to have a Tyrese conversation I think he's good in this movie I think he was this very Like

Interesting presence in these movies He made early on like post this right I like him in honestly I like him in Too Fast Too Furious Playing kind of a different character than he ends up playing Okay but I just want to say Tyrese is a really good singer. Great singer, obviously.

His solos, as well as his work with TGT, is iconic. And I feel like that bedrock. Also, he's insane. Yes. Yes. I mean, if you look at Tyrese's social media, he's insane yes yes i mean if you look at tyrese's social media he's a he's a lot of person he has a benihana in his backyard okay all right but this is my question this is my question with

tyrese because you look at the does he still get hibachi from the benihana in his backyard is that your question he also has like full-size transformers in his backyard this is my question like is there a point at which that he kind of tipped that way or was that always tyrese's energy no no you okay what's your this is my personal thought this is my personal thought and okay this is and and i i'm if i don't really this is my thought and to the black people who listen to this podcast you'll know what i mean there's just there's just there's just men when they get money everything that was already going on underneath there that it just gets more it just

amplifies it's it's like how drinking just intensifies all the traits that are already there sure sure he was always gonna want to make betty hana at three in the morning and have aziz i'm sorry he was always gonna want to have transformers in the in his backyard they're probably just gonna be like small and he's just gonna be that weird dude who like plays with his kids legos now they're huge now they're huge now their life's like quote unquote life size or whatever. I mean, life size would be even bigger, I suppose. But yes. But like Transformers is the moment where he turns into current Tyrese actor, current screen Tyrese, which is just like a guy who is in Transformers movies, Fast and the Furious movies and not much else. in the furious movies and not much else and as you say is kind of crazy on social media and that's the whole vibe right like that's kind of it right pretty much i guess he's in morbius he was on the mass singer he was on the mass singer he was the porcupine he was robopine

robopine yeah right like he's a celebrity now like he's's like, or I mean, he always was. But like, you know what I mean? Like his identity is that he is a celebrity and he's like a figure. Yeah. And he's fun and goofy. It's so hard to be a mononym. That's what happens when you're a mononym too. Yes. I feel like.

Where it's like he's Tyrese. That's the other weird thing is it's like, you said his music was really good right and was like pretty like earnestly soulful right and when he starts out as an actor he's playing all these like very serious intense young men you know like that was very much how he was positioned as a movie star and then at some point he becomes like a goofball and i like how they use him in the fast and furious movies now but like when we talk about too fast too furious next week we're gonna have a rude awakening trying to like when you go straight from like too fast to fate of the furious they're fundamentally different people he has nothing to do with each other the comic relief of the franchise he's the

goofball he's the guy who's trying to puff out his chest and like everyone like knocks him down. And like the Transformers movies, it's like, oh, it's incredibly weird that Tyrese is in like three Transformers movies and is in them a lot and does a lot but doesn't really have any specific impression that he makes. Like he's just a guy running around and screaming at transformers him and josh do them all they're soldiers right i just remember there's a lot of scenes where they're like thank you transformers and like you know salute them and stuff but he had this moment where uh on social media i feel like maybe after fast five or fast six when he was like i've realized i've been wasting time. I have all this power.

I should be like one of the great actors of my generation. I'm going to start doing serious shit. I want to start playing serious roles. Right. And he was like, I want to play Nelson Mandela. Like he started like just like stating like, I'm going to fucking do it. I'm going to get up there with like the greats and then this audition tape leaked out of him auditioning for jango in jango unchained that everyone clowned on online it was sort of like a smaller scale

version of the chris klein mamma mia thing where it was just like oh this is a guy like wildly overreaching and people kind of had this attitude of like why is Tyrese trying to pretend that he's a real actor and it's like but he kind of was he was he was no but he definitely was early on you're like oh yeah this guy's talented like when he's in like Annapolis and like Flight of the Phoenix like these are not great movies but he's he's good and I still think he's good at what he does like he's become a good personality as you said Io like he has become good at what he does. Like, he's become a good personality, as you said, Ayo. Like, he has become good at being Tyrese the celebrity and being able to be Tyrese in movies. But it is fascinating that there was a point in time

where he was really being groomed as, like, a kind of really potent leading man. Okay, somebody who kind of reminded me of this journey, and feel free to disagree but i think it's maybe an apt comparison also because of the role music plays in it is uh yassin bey formerly known as most deaf who like actually like started as a child actor I think and then became a rapper but then in the midst of that was like showing up, doing his little things

bamboozled, monster's ball, brown sugar the Italian job he'll be like in the woodsman yes so good in the woodsman, doing top dog underdog on Broadway, there was that moment where people were like is most deaf Tom Hanks? he's so good in the woods doing top dog underdog on broadway like there was that moment where

people were like is is like most def tom hanks i mean he really could have been he could have been most is a very good actor i agree and he like is one of those guys who is simultaneously a very good actor and capable of doing just the movie star shit when he needs to. I did Hitchhiker's Guide and Be Kind to Rewind Watch when I was back in quarantine. And I was like, this man is good. He's great in both of those. He's really fun in those movies. Did he just stop?

He just kind of stopped, right? It feels like he kind of chose not to do it. He just kind of put it down, it feels like. Yeah. I wonder if he lost passion for it or also i think that stop kind of coincided with like more i mean he always was um very political but i there i feel like there was like a lot more protesting and the name change as well right right and and like his music career changed as well like it does feel like he just

kind of got understandably a little freaked out by like celebrity culture and tried to ground himself in some more shit yeah it's pretty weird well this is the thing you have to be in this stupid machine and do supporting roles in studio movies and like what you write like and it's like it must be such an exhausting and irritating ladder to climb anyway but especially if you're also like a famous black rapper like i just can only imagine how exhausting and annoying the meetings with you know producers and honchos and so you know and like the the process of trying to get scripts that are interesting and like you know i i i then tyrese it feels like just i don't know what you know how his i think tyrese loves being famous like i think that's he's just like you

know what i'm gonna be tyrese and i'm gonna be roman on fast and furious and i'm gonna be super famous i'm gonna have transformers you know even movie movie that i think is underrated and i bring up a weird amount on this podcast, I think he's very good in Black and Blue. That was like the one time recently I've seen him give an early Tyrese performance. The one with Naomi Harris, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Yes, the body cam movie. Oh my gosh, that came out like last year or something? Or two years ago. It came out 2019. Yeah, so, right, 15 years ago. Well, and now I i'm gonna get sad about naomi harris now well she's yeah it's fair to get sad that is the only time naomi harris has ever been the lead of a movie which is wild to think about but uh he's really good in that

he's gonna i've also i've never seen waist deep i don't know if you guys have seen vondie curtis hall's waist deep uh i have people like that movie i feel like maybe he's good in that i feel like that's the end of original flavor tyrese right because like that's 2006 and transformers is 2007 and then it's transformers death race transformers 2 Legion, Fast 5, Transformers Fast 6, Furious 7 Oh an interesting like dual high moment I feel like 2006-7 I feel like that's sort of

Megan Good peak and then it goes up down and then it goes up down a little Great to see her in Shazam Happy for the girl, so good to see her in Shazam Shazam the girl. So good to see her in Shazam. Shazam had the highest rate of I'm excited to see this person like cameos, right? Where you're just like, hey, good for that guy.

Good for her. Well, but also the great thing is it's now like, oh, you're telling me you're making a Shazam 2 where Megan Good is going to be one of the leads? Right. Yes, please. Give me all of that you got. Yeah, I'll take as much as you have uh i feel like i had this exact conversation with you io maybe on iconography about shazam yes for this reason my slam on zachary levi in shazam is zachary levi is playing quote unquote

a kid and megan good is so specifically playing that young actress. No, everybody, yes. No, Megan Good and also my boy Adam Brody. Adam Brody, nailed playing Grazer. Also, Adam Brody, I want a Brody sauce. I think we're close. We're close. I think we're

close to a Brody sauce. I'm not going to say it's going to happen or not, but I feel like okay, we all loved Adventure Zam. We got excited to a Brody size. I'm not going to say it's going to happen or not, but I feel like, okay, we all love The Adventure Zam. We got excited to see The Promising Young Woman. Despite any feelings about that movie, I won't reveal them. Kid Detective was great. Kid Detective was... Haven't seen it.

No people love it. A lot of people are watching Kid Detective, scooping that one up and being like, hey, here's something. So that's happening. There's something. Let's talk about Bro about brody that's all i'm saying i'm laying the seeds really good and ready or not a movie i don't love but i feel like he's the one actor who's totally on the right wavelength in that movie he's locked in he's locked in and he's ready to work he's ready i have to assume a brody sons television. Not because he can't be in movies. Just because they're just, I don't know, doesn't that make sense? Like, it's just not enough movies out there.

Well, a return to form as well. I think it's like what you're feeling is, you also want something complete. You want something a little bit cyclical. Not to speak for you. I mean, I would love to have, see him have a show, perhaps a streaming show with short seasons that really makes good use of him and allows him to keep doing these types of film roles he's doing.

But give him like an anchoring leading project to go in between. The only reason why I don't want that is because I feel like there's too much TV. And as somebody who... Well, and as somebody definitely that's the problem so i'm saying i want him to keep this movie train going that's that's how i i would prefer it to but i don't know i don't know i just think it's tougher but you know i i and in general here for the brody sons honestly he's looking better than ever he's looking great fantastic him and layton

keeping it tight him and layton is just an interesting it's a great couple where they're they're explicitly like we were both on josh schwartz shows that was our bond yeah that's how we got to know each other so odd uh so yeah right we've talked about tyrese and uh uh taraji now we touched on Ving just being like in the absolute zone. Are we going to briefly mention Monique coming in, doing the work, or AJ Johnson?

The only complaint is more, please. You know, that's the problem. Well, AJ Johnson is really fun in this movie. She's got a lot. She actually has

several fun scenes. But Monique, I was like, holy shit! And then she's really just in a couple scenes. I think she's only in the one scene. But at that time, she was like... I don't know. I think... And who's to say?

But sometimes you see a working comedian in a movie and you're like, what is going on? So I feel like she's Monique. I don't know. She came feel like she's like, you know, she's Monique. You know, I don't know. It's like she came in and she did the work. She's great.

She did the work and there was going to be more in the future. Yes, a lot more and then a lot less was the arc, unfortunately. It was really cool when she was at the Oscars, though, and she was dressed like the black woman who won the first Oscar. That was cool. It is interesting, Ayo, because I do feel like a lot of stand-up comedians, when they come in for a scene like this in a movie, even if they pop, it's like, well, you're just now kind of hijacking the movie and doing your shit, right? Yes, yes. your shit right yes yes like i i think of most of the 90s uh chris rock film appearances are just like and then the movie just gets handed over to chris rock for five minutes you know or anytime

he's on screen or whatever and monique was someone where even when she's funny it's like she does always understand what movie she's in yes yes another person who's excellent at that chris tucker correct who is who is like has a lot of energy but he'll be like well i know you hired me for my energy i also know that this is a sci-fi movie or this is jackie brown and i'm about to spoiler alert yes you were saying you just re-watched jackie brown and that's such a good example of like you know that's the year before rush hour when he's like okay this is my movie i do whatever the fuck i want there's no way i can break it but to to quote the meme you watch jackie brown he understood the assignment you watch fifth element he understood the assignment silver linings playbook he's really

fucking good in yes he's really good he's really fucking good in yes he's really good he's really fucking good in that he's great in silver lining playbook he's honestly good in billy linds long halftime walk i'd love him to do other things where is he i don't know where the fuck is he i know he's had like weird tax things but like he's really not doing anything anymore jesus he hasn't done it's rush hour 3 2007 silver lines playbook 2012 billy lynn's long halftime walk 2016 nothing since that's it damn and he does nothing between rush hour two and three anyway he's not but it's also like this thing where you and i don't know if this is that how I feel about this statement,

take it as seriously or as lightly as you want to, but I feel like you used to be able to be a movie star and do that and take really long space between projects and I feel like the nature of social media and all that stuff. He was trying to do a Warren Beatty. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. Anyway, Monique is fantastic. She is.

And also Omar Gooding. Omar Gooding, yes. That's always a thing I like when a director works with multiple members of the same family. Yes. There's a Gooding dynasty happening. Yeah happening yeah because the son what's the son's name who was in book mason he's really good we went to school together really yeah he studied

dramatic writing hey is he nice yeah what if i was like no i don't know i'd be like all right i could see that no No, he's nice. We're happy for him. Mason Gooding apparently is in the new Scream. I'm really happy for him. The upcoming Scream. It was also, it was really something like, I don't know, in school where I remember just being like, why are you here?

Why are you studying writing? Sure. Right. Just go be a movie star. Yeah, you just look like a movie star what's going on why are you here but he also was a he was a good writer okay i guess he already had acting a lot let me mind that teaches me mind my business we'll dig into the the proper plot of the movie in a second but i do just want to call before we get into it the the snoop dog factor here is interesting just because

snoop dog was so fucking famous and kind of was in like a decade of the 90s where almost every breakout rap artist ends up also doing some movies or tv had kind of stayed away from that like it felt like a big deal that snoop dogg was like in this movie above the title on the poster here's a dramatic part of him playing a character and then you watch the movie and he's like not in the first 75 minutes and you were like why is snoop dogg in on the poster and then he comes in and he kind of hijacks the entire movie like he sort of becomes a black hole of just like well snoop dogg's charisma is so bizarre that the entire movie. Like he sort of becomes a black hole of just like, well, Snoop Dogg's charisma is so bizarre that the entire movie kind of gets sucked into whatever he's doing.

Yeah. He's actually good in this movie because he's playing an unsympathetic and scary character. He's kind of like the Ray Liotta and something wild of this movie. Right? Like, I think I figured he would phone be phoning it in and he is not it's funny no we should yeah this is the year that he's in training day he has if you remember

a small role in training day yes in this and in bones the ernest dickerson uh vampire movie where he's a vampire one of ben's favorite movies this this is the the snoop movie year this is right he had done like some cameos and like a straight to video thing but like this is when he's like all right here i am and then post this i feel like he's like okay if i'm gonna be in a movie it's like starsky and hutch like i'm right i'm just doing like a version of myself because probably after this he was like wait i like acting and I'm good at it. But also it's like hard work and you have to be on set for days and hours. And so that part sucks.

But showing up in a TV show and being myself or showing up in a movie and basically being myself, that's great. Or being like in Soul Plane. That's incredible. Right. Right. This year, 2001 is the wash bones training day baby boy the wash as well that's right four movies and then it's like okay he voices ronnie rizat in malibu's most wanted he appears as himself in old school then he's huggy baron starsky and hutch

the next year same year as him playing the captain and soul plane who spoiler alert dies pretty early on he's the voice of the fucking basset hounded racing stripes uh because he has one of my favorite trailer lines if that's a horse then i'm a d-o-double-g which it's like you are a dog that's your carrot that's you are a What does that mean? What is the implication of that line? Right. But then he essentially just kind of plays himself or does like one hour of voiceover work and shit. And I also feel like around that point starts to become like the parody

version of himself where he's like hosting SNL and doing like doggy fizzle televizzle, you know, which like leads to him just being like, I don't know, I do a show with Martha Stewart now because isn't that funny that the two of us are friends? He's also funny in the Beach Bum playing lingerie. Oh, he's great in Beach Bum.

I just, the Snoop Dogg conversation is complicated. In the 90s, I feel like he was someone that like my parents were supposed to be scared of me listening to his music right yes like that's the snoop dog thing like how that yeah the horrors that would happen to you specifically you know what i mean oh like yes he was like he was like sold obviously like you, young people loved him. And I feel like he was someone that tabloids were just like, that man, he's a murderer. He was in a gang. Right.

Yeah. He's like. And then. By 2002, every single white person is making Izzle jokes. Exactly. Like right around here, he becomes this package that is being sold. On behalf of white people, will you apologize on behalf of white people will you apologize i will apologize there's a lot of apologies this is the feeling our nation needs to have kind of i mean it's like he started a gaming you know team he like endorsed uh beyond

meat at some it just sort of feels like he's like if you want to be in business with snoop dog like but put forward you know what what's the angle how do you sell it around his persona is so scary oh my god on one of my uh cell phone games i play when you have to like watch an ad in order to get more lives or whatever uh-huh one of the ads that keeps on coming up is some like online some cell phone poker game or something where they get celebrities to endorse it via cameo it's the weirdest fucking shit where they're clearly like paying someone on cameo to read ad copy because it will cost them less than hiring someone to actually be the spokesperson and the videos they include have the cameo watermark still on them and snoop dogg is one of them where i'm

like snoop dogg's just sitting in his living room and some guy with some shitty poker app is sending him like 500 to be like this is my favorite game on my cell phone i play it every day snoop dogg in 2018 set the um guinness world record for the largest paradise cocktail by creating a 550 liter gin and juice drink so just uh so you know that's that's something that's been going this is what you know it that it's that's what you're talking about it's the wild ride of i don't know his like post-2000s persona being like commodified i mean he's obviously making money and having fun i assume i don't know he does like an album every year like he's he's he's recorded like 18 albums listen well you know rappers are not a monolith there are rappers

who are good actors and who are willing to do the work method man he's a good actor the best yes wiz khalifa i will say you know there's some bias but he's a really good actor and i was working with him on set he was really nice and he was like good script i read it and i was like thanks ms khalifa have you worked with method man io um i i have i have seen method man read for something he is un-fucking-believable and he was really good a he's a great actor b it's just like that is a guy who is so good at like treating every single person on set like royalty and being kind and being really hard working and like everyone fucking likes that guy okay anyway this movie starts with a fully grown tyrese in utero that's right that's he's in the womb baby he's a baby boy he's a baby boy yes um and john singleton just uh literally just spells out his thesis of the movie with like a block of text at the very

beginning uh a voiceover yes the thesis of the movie griffin please go please go ahead a generation of young black men not growing up right in a culture that sort of supports that infantilization but here's what i like about this movie and feel free to disagree with me i this movie never feels like luxury despite that thesis which sounds so fraught yeah you know what i mean like you like you might like hear that or start this movie or watch a scene for this movie be like oh this is a movie about how x is the problem with young black men in america or how like y is the problem with like how we're raising people you know like and it's not that at all it feels like candid and like it's very interested and it's very interested in the inner lives of its characters but it's not trying to be like the here's the

systemic thing we need to talk about which boys in the hood is more about and like yeah then that's fine like it works with boys though that's such a message movie but like this feels like despite it being like spiritually related to that movie, not that at all. It's much more of a character study. I mean, it is it does feel like the movie of just like John Singleton, like, as we said, looking at a dude in the mall and being like, hmm, what is that guy's afternoon like? this movie largely succeeds in telling an interesting line between, you know, just actually depicting this guy's behavior, good and bad,

you know, just being interested in him as a complicated, contradictory person. And also someone who's very much in progress is not fully formed. Yes. I am now reading, yes. Okay, so this movie is also horny as hell. Very horny.

Yeah. I laughed during, there's this particular sequence that I laughed out loud. It's just Taraji having sex with him, with Tyrese, after they have the fight outside the apartment complex. And this is the one that it's only her. It doesn't intercut with anyone else.

And, I mean, she's just yelling. Like, insane, insane amount of screaming and back and forth between them. And I, like, laughed. And then I was like, oh, wait, maybe this isn't supposed to be funny. And then it kept going. And I was like, it's funny to me. Even if it's not supposed to be funny, this one in particular is making me laugh. Well, the movie, it's so tonally interesting because as you said, David, it goes into like these weird dreamlike states.

But I also feel like at times he experiments with going like very broad. There are scenes in this movie that are pitched very comedically and things in this movie that are deathly serious. And I'm always a sucker for people experimenting with tone that much and trying to reconcile wildly different energies within one film. But it does sometimes create an odd experience where you're not sure how any given scene is supposed to be interpreted. Here's a

quote from singleton that i really like where he's just like he seems to be i like he he just it's what we're talking about with in terms of fame and in terms of the weird pressures of making a movie that gets you an oscar nomination when you're you know barely out of college and you know you're the first black filmmaker to ever get a job, all that. People that are bougie can kiss my ass if they think they can tell me what kind of movie I'm supposed to be making.

Get real. This is an ethnographic film of the time, just like Boys was. There are no cops. There's no white people. It's all insular. I'm not pointing the finger at anyone else. It stays in the community.

It's all right there. It feels like he's like, life is realistically comical and dramatic and violent and also like goofy right like he's just kind of like i don't want this movie to be point a to point b like you know i'm here's the arc of a person and and that's, right? Like he's kind of like, I just want to throw my camera into the middle of these conversations, these arguments and this like, you know, lovemaking and like this violence. Like, you know, I don't know.

Like it's so daring in a way that Boys in the Hood feels very like controlled compared to this movie. Yes, it's certainly a much more straightforward film. But I also wonder how much of that is to do with your first films versus the ones where you do have, okay, dare I say it, that blank check. Okay. But even with my pilot samples, I I say it, that blank check. Okay. But I mean, like, even with my, like, pilot samples, I don't know. I just, like, remember when I first was, like, looking for representation or first looking to get hired.

It's like you do stuff that is more controlled because you're also, like, these are me. I'm like, I'm young. I want people to know that I know how to do this. Like, I want people to know that I, you know, know like i want people to know that i yes you know know how to write and i don't know if he had those impulses as well and so you take structure and take form and you try to attach your interests but as you write more and create more and experience more it's like you know what there's going to be a grown man in utipro and snoop dog is actually going to have a pressing curl and that is what i want to show the world and if you get it you get it and if you don't then well you know i try but hey maybe

it's not for you to get maybe people just need to understand that snoop dog will have a pressing curl right i also think it's interesting that this is a point in time where like spike lee's career is kind of in a dip at least in terms of like widespread spread recognition respectability right like this is the period where people are like i don't know he's making like small weird shit uh you know and and then like you know he has a swing back towards more commerciality then he sort of like dips again and then now he has his like later sort of oscar run he's been on but um i i feel like when you read uh reviews of spikely movies in the late 90s when people are kind of like turning on him it's mostly about that tonal shit

where they're like why is some of this so goofy like why is he taking these huge swings why is he getting expressionistic in this moment why can't he make something that's like all on the same level and there was that feeling where like wait oh i i'm sorry i just say i can't wait for everybody to return to ma in 50 years and realize i was right oh yeah i think you've already been been winning that argument well i'll keep fighting i'll keep fighting a good fight but but yeah this sorry go ahead go ahead i know i i can't do a taylor uh tangent which i was about to fire up i can't do it keepate Taylor tangent, which I was about to fire up. I can't do it. Keep going. Give us a little. Give us a little.

It's just crazy that he's done two movies since Ma. It's just wild that there's two movies from Tate Taylor just come out since Ma. Yeah. Yeah, the man's insane. And he probably should have made The Woman in the Window. Don't you think he probably should have made The Woman in the Window? Like, I haven't seen it yet. But it sounds like the problem with that movie is that it takes itself too seriously.

And, like, he should have just been, like, he. Tate Taylor is the one to ask, what if there was a woman in the window? Like, he's the one to ask. He was the only one who had the courage to ask, what if there was a girl on a train? That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. And that movie is dog shit. And it's watchable.

And that's the Tate Taylor experience. And, like, that's where we'm saying that's what i'm saying and that movie is dog shit and it's watchable and it's that's the taylor experience and like that's what we need to go but anyway i'm sorry for taking us on a brief take taylor uh tangent a ttt not unlike not unlike a tgt not too far away this movie is not narrated other than this opening where you sort of have this like this immediate like a full force blast into this guy's brain. Right. Where you're hearing this internal monologue, sort of him trying to like come to summarize his life, I guess, to some degree. But also the culture that he's a product of. And you're also just seeing all of his key relationships established really quickly. I do like I mean, I feel like it's deliberate that, you know, they they talk about at the beginning, like the language of, you know, they call it a crib.

They call it like your friends or your boys. And then you call your your women ma right and then uh not not octavia spencer ma of course but one can hope one can dream but but you see both of uh the women who have uh mothered his children and then when you get to his mother it takes a moment for you to realize oh this is literally his mother because the age difference is not that great and he's calling her by the same name that he calls that right and he's kind of sexually jealous of his mother not yes not in like an you know completely on the surface way but like ving rames is coming up and they call it out ving rames on his oedipus

shit yeah and it's so there's one particular like like, moment when his mom and Ving Rhames are going on the date. And the blocking is just, like, it's so funny. Where he's basically, like, holding on to his mother. Then Ving Rhames crosses and comes around and takes his mother. crosses and comes around and takes his mother. And you see Tyrese like almost like try to still hold on to his mom and like adjust as they like go out of frame. And he's still like doing this, this again,

like weird thing that I think like the movie deals with and, and tries to show in a lot of different ways, but like where he's both the father that isn't there and the son and like being a baby but also trying to be like like trying to be perceived as like some sort of intimidating adult figure and it's just not happening at all it's which is why rames is is so well cast because tyrese is this really handsome, really, you know, in shape dude. And then Bing Reigns comes in and he just looks like a refrigerator. He's amazing.

So sexy. A lot of man. A lot of man. Yes. Like him making the eggs and just like he's just so insanely virile. His ass is incredible. His ass is incredible. He's got the tightest ass in the world

it's crazy it's crazy to find a tighter ass than tyrese's but it really kind of is ving ram because he he also shows tush and i now pronounce you chuck and larry and i remember going like i did not expect it to be that tight because he's sort of a stocky guy but he's just like the way he's lit the just the just but also just the utter confidence of him as a performer just you know like the complete uh assuredness i mean that's the voice of arby's babe it is he's got the meat one could argue that ving is the one who's got the meat okay ving's got the meat. But I also feel like, like he's just as reliable a screen presence from like 92 to 2002 as anybody, right? But the other thing is Ving is so good at playing off of movie stars.

Like even a movie like this where it's like here's a new movie star. But compared to also things where he's playing off of like Tom Cruise or bruce willis or john travolta or nicholas cage or whoever i just feel like he's so good at finding the right complementary energy for whoever's at like the center of the frame and whenever he enters into any scene of a movie he's the guy you're paying attention to but he somehow also is making the other person look good at the same time like he's a weirdly generous actor for someone who is that much of an innate scene stealer uh and and i just feel like any time he is in this movie it's a masterpiece like the the ving rames tyree scenes are just so fucking like loaded for me.

Just feel like so dense in the best possible way. There's so much going on and just watching the two of them play off each other is so endlessly fascinating. And his shifts are so fascinating. Like he does these hairpin turns from when he's being sort of condescending to him and infantilizing to when he's really trying to be supportive to when he's being antagonistic. He's got such a live wire energy while also being kind of quiet and steady. It makes it so exciting to watch. I can also I don't know, obviously projecting, but it's like I feel like you feel Tyrese being like a better actor. Like you feel him trying to be on that same wavelength and like that first scene where they're like feeling each other out.

And I feel like, I mean, he does it scene to scene, but especially in that scene, it's like line to line where it's like, is this reading condescending? Or trying to connect? I don't know. You can just feel Tyrese being like, are we good? Do you not like me? Oh, you hate me.

Oh, you pity me. Oh, like, I don't know. It's just cool. This is something Emilio Diaz, friend of the show said on letterboxd i think but like tyrese is weirdly good at playing low status for such a handsome and talented man yes like he that's become his comedic persona now that's the thing is he acts like he's king shit and everyone tells him he's stupid yeah right as he leans into it as like a right as a sort of supporting movie star right yeah right and in this he's playing a much more emo version of that but like he's just carrying a lot of like you know

this is about a 20 year old guy who has two kids from two different women he doesn't have a job he lives with his mom you know like you know he's obviously like pretty lost and he just convincingly carries all that in his shoulders without it without giving this like extremely overwrought performance he's just yeah just very realistically kind of like lost and burdened and and like emotional about it like when he's fighting with taraji's characters when yvette like especially like he's such a baby like he's so horrible and emotionally communicating there's that scene where she's like berating him like you know are you are you cheating on me like the condom in a

car scene is unbelievable like he's so fascinating because you're just like you want to scream at the screen and go like to fucking like just engage with her like respond to what she's saying engage with her as a human being so So this is what movies are like. Kind of none. This is why I think this movie is so fascinating. Like they're just like, how many movies are there? I mean,

of course there are movies about just people who are like fuck ups and don't do, but like there's no, like there's not like a lot of central spine to baby boy. It's just, you're just kind of like rattling around with this guy who is likable but also a tough hang and he is often often really you know a sweetheart but then often like you know he he hits a woman he's you know cruel he's obviously completely he makes a woman get an abortion yeah right that's it is kind of incredible that this

movie opens with like him reciting the text of that that's that study right and then you see in that opening sequence the flash forward of him hitting taraji and then the first proper scene of the movie is him picking her up at an abortion clinic and being a totally distant asshole about it like it's it's an incredible position to start a character a central character at the beginning of a movie because you're like in the hole with this guy just being like this guy seems like he sucks like i'm just gonna find this guy so frustrating in his inability to get his shit together and act like an adult but but i think tyrese and and the movie is good at framing this and playing the tension of like there are the moments where the guy has this kind of lucidity and emotional intelligence that make it all the

more frustrating when he backs away from that like you can see the full adult in there. And he's constantly fighting whether or not to actually let it sprout. It's, I think also, it's like a credit to John Singleton as a director for like, letting that rattle and letting that go on. But I think also, like, part of his intention of just being like, you know, black people are not a monolith. And, like, you know, there are these community issues and things I want to talk about. But I'm not going to maybe give you the answer that solidifies your preconceived notions or gives you what, like, some sort of moralistic, like, I don't know, put down or whatever. Like, this is just about a guy. This is about a guy first and foremost. Right.

It's about a guy who's inscrutable in a lot of ways. And it's like Singleton beholding people on the street and being like, yeah, what's the inner life of this person? I bet it's complicated. What's the inner life of this guy who's at this Auntie Anne's in front of me? What? Right. I'm at the Orange Julius. I'm in line i'm asking questions i also feel like part of the design of the movie is that the guy is

kind of like pointedly unexceptional you know like even in terms of the the events of the film it is not like anything extraordinary really happens to him or he does anything extraordinary. Like the scale of both the good and bad for him is pretty like ground level, you know? And it sort of is this consideration of just like, as you said, like this is any guy, you know, this is just some guy, but it's a guy that a movie does not usually interrogate this deeply. And few movies ever interrogate their lead characters this deeply, especially if you're looking at like commercial studio filmmaking of the 2000s. Yeah. Io has brought her dog onto the zone.

Gromit! I just want to say that I wish that the movie wasn't about a dog. Oh my God, Gromit. Oh my God, Gromit I just want to say that I wish that the movie Was about a dog Oh my god Gromit He's like a nut He's so self centered You can't see outside of dogs in movies I love that he's called Gromit

Are there Because the plot thing That we haven't discussed I guess Is the sort of return of Snoop Dogg. Like that's the closest thing this movie has to high stakes stuff. And it's really the last act. He has these premonitions throughout the movie of him dying. Right.

There's this sort of like. By the way, this is a long movie. It's like two hours and ten minutes long, which is like crazy. Like it highly uncommercial of it to be sort of this sort of like long hangouty movie with not a lot of plot. Right. But, but yes, he has these premonitions of him dying,

but that's sort of more like casting a shadow over the movie than it is like an ongoing tension. He wants to figure out like a career for himself. So there's this like side hustle of him selling dresses and trying to figure that out, which you almost think like, is this going to become the whole movie? But it's just a thing. He's got this friend who's like more of a loose cannon than he is.

He's got these relationships with these two women. I mean, I think it's kind of a failing of the movie that the other baby mama doesn't really exist. baby mama doesn't really exist uh i i'm not saying maybe that like you know i need her to be as fleshed out as taraji but it does feel a little odd that she is so much just like another person yeah and like if anything kind of like a frustration complication for a complication for and complication for Yvette, Taraji P. Henson's character. Maybe this is wrong, but I feel like the baby mama, the second baby mama,

whose name might be like Peanut, is... Peanut. It is Peanut. Yes. I feel like they're in the same amount of scenes. Her and Diaries and her and Yvette The actress is Tamara LeCion Bass I've never heard of her I mean, no offense

But she just doesn't Is never given that much to do And is certainly not really given interiority Almost the mother's character The peanut's mother Almost kind of has more authority And more things to say not really given interiority almost the mother's character that the peanuts mother almost like kind of has more authority and more things to say yeah uh yeah candy and brown yeah yeah yeah i know but it's also funny that this movie is advertised as tyree snoop dogg and ving rames yeah when taraji is sort of a huge part of it. She's kind of the second most important character, right?

Yeah. That's pretty. No, it's like you would think that Snoop Dogg, I mean, just by the poster and knowing and be like, oh, okay, Snoop Dogg is his best friend character who's going to try to get him into gang life and away from his family. And it's like, no, he's just kind of crazy.

Crazy guy. Right. He's like a lunatic who comes in at the end of the movie and creates conflict. You earlier described him as a black hole. And I think that that is like, I don't know. I've just been thinking about that. Yeah.

He just sort of like sucks everything into his orbit. Which is like, that makes sense why he's like also sort of has to be a little bit sparingly yeah used here because um when he's on screen it's like oh god but the first 75 minutes are pretty much just like these three main dynamics in his life of taraji his mother and ving grames right and it's like primarily sort of like confrontation scenes with those three characters. And then Omar Gooding sort of exists as his sounding board. Like anytime he's in a scene with Omar Gooding, it's not really about Omar Gooding. It's about now he's actually able to express himself like he's more verbal than he emotionally with with Gooding than he is with anyone else.

than he emotionally with, with Gooding than he is with anyone else. I mean, and I, you call both of these things out, but I do think like in Singleton's filmography, I think this movie is the most interesting in terms of a, how he works with actors and be blocking. Like it really feels like he's trying a lot of shit in both of those areas.

Like I feel feel especially those confrontation scenes with those three characters i mentioned all feel like uh acting class exercises in the best way where they're not like showboaty like i'll out act you shit but they feel like let's really experiment with energy right and changing the status from line to line within a scene of sort of who has the ball, who has the upper hand. And there are all these sequences that are built around really, really interesting blocking. I mean, he's doing a lot of sort of like expressionistic physicality, like non-literal. expressionistic physicality like non-literal this is not necessarily what someone would do physically in this scene but this is kind of the most ecstatic expression of how these characters are feeling in these scenes and there are also a couple sequences where he's like monologuing to

omar gooding where it starts in like a real wide shot of them walking around some environment. And then slowly both like the camera moves in and they move towards the camera until it becomes like a Tyrese close up. And it's like literally this character forcing himself into being like the center of the frame and commanding the movie. And really feeling like he has some clarity on who he wants to be in his life. It just feels like a movie that is very directed in a good way. Yes, he's trying a lot of stuff. He's trying a lot of shit. Wow, there's a block that's interesting. In the end of the movie with his mother and the rose garden,

that I find so striking and clearly just such like a visual image and it also reminded me of because i was hanging out with my friend emma um seligman who directed ship a baby the other day and we watched a movie together that um is a really stupid movie. Keeping the Faith. Oh, yes. Keeping the Faith is great. Keeping the Faith rules. My wife's favorite movie of all time.

Okay, and we love, women love this movie. Emma loves it and was referencing scenes that were references just in terms of blocking. And I was like, this is so hilarious to me

that this was one of your references. only to say that like that that ending blocking it reminded me in a weird way of moonlight and that last scene with nanami harris and the beautiful man uh travante roads um like it reminded me of that like last scene in the garden like with that sort of like people don't sit like this and in in real life but it heightens the the moment and and and the and it adds to this overall feeling that this movie is created of like dreamy things feeling so real and real life feeling like this bizarre dream especially for this man who is in such a an in-between state in his life and in his and in his choices right but that's like i mean that's where the sort of good version of the acting class thing

comes to me where it's like you know okay you have two actors who have like worked on some text and have tried to perfect the most literal version of it and a good acting teacher knows how to do this well and a bad acting teacher does this just sort of like performatively um but where they're like okay now do this scene again but this time play it like you're an alien you know or play it like you're hungry alien, you know, or play it like you're hungry. And that's the only thing you're thinking about where you like do a run through of it with some odd note that is not intuitive, but somehow might unlock some odd energy in some other area of the scene. And like that whole stretch, I know we're jumping all around, but the whole stretch of the mother finding the weed in the rose garden, yelling at Tyrese about it, him defending himself, Ving Rhames coming home, owning up to it, Tyrese trying to get her to throw Ving Rhames out.

Like just the constant energy shifts in that whole sequence are so fascinating, you know? And just Ving's character in general is just so fascinatingly rendered. from uh the village voice piece about this movie when it was coming out that greg tate wrote uh where singleton said there's a talk of a sequel to shaft but sam jackson i want it in our contracts that there will be some sex you can look at baby boy and see all the sex that was frustrated on shaft i put it down in this one the horniness and we we talk about in the shaft episode how he was annoyed that he couldn't i don't know like have horniness all over that movie yes right it's all spilling into this one and then this is the incredible quote from singleton he said uh as soon as aj came in for the first day of rehearsals ving picked her up put her on his shoulders and acted like he was

eating her out like hey what's up and then he was smacking her ass and she was like i don't feel that i said yeah this is what it's all about i wanted this movie to be almost as soulful as a marvin gaye record and man those actors bared their souls for me the sex scenes in this movie are so bizarre because i feel like there is a there is an odd honesty to the odd power dynamics that are often inherit in any sexual activity. And on top of that, the goofiness of sex, like there is a wide array of like it's is goofy right like you have you have a scene like that scene where he is like crouched with aj in his arms and tyrese is knocking on the door asking him to quiet down that is played as like pure comedy but then you also have the scene after tyrese hits taraji p henson where he goes down on her that is like one of the most complicated sex scenes I've ever seen in a movie

in terms of just the weird collection of emotions at play. Like he's using sex in a lot of different ways in this movie, but the biggest way is just you rarely see sex depicted on screen this broadly. I mean, the man had like seven or eight kids i think that's on his wikipedia it's seven or eight the the man fucked a lot it's yes it's worth we have not really delved into the man is complicated uh is about the mildest way to put it uh but yeah he is the father of eight children uh yeah i'm not

sure why wikipedia says seven or eight citation needed up there but it looks like it was eight uh that you know this there's this washington post profile of him about this movie that's points this out where it's like at that point he had five children with four different women. He'd had this, you know, sort of alimony argument with one of the mothers of his children. I mean, we should talk about this. This happens right before this movie. There is a domestic abuse incident with the mother of one of his children. Tasha Lewis. Yeah.

Right. That also then gets caught up in an alimony lawsuit. And then as part of the settlement, he has to make a short film against domestic violence film about violent women like i it did not seem like he was someone who took uh whatever you know whatever the sort of resolution of that case was seriously you know like what like but but no but i think the bigger point you're trying to make is yes okay a obviously a very complicated guy with with his issues. But this Washington Post piece was this guy, whoever was interviewing him, saying, like, it feels like there's some interesting parallels in this movie. Obviously, you have a very different career and you're 10 years older and you work in the industry.

But you've had children with different women and you had this domestic abuse allegation thrown against you and all this stuff is there like some sort of you trying to i don't know reckon with this point in your life thing and he like completely dispelled all of that like he very aggressively fought against the idea that this movie was any reflection of anything that he was dealing with he's like no no i was just hanging out and like watching people and like trying to understand him it's funny it's also like i don't know i feel like i can say anything about my work and i can be like this has nothing to do with me or whatever right like subconsciously at a certain level you do wonder like yeah i don't know how much of this is does is attached to your life and every movie's about yeah that's something we say a lot every movie is sort of about the director like in some way or other that's the jd amato thing right right but this is like in the

in the washington post piece he like says uh uh you know like in trying to explain why this character is totally different from him right he says he doesn't have the resources that i have both economic and mental i'm a 33 year old man with a job and it's like right but that's sort of this thing where like i was talking about earlier where like filmmakers make movies about who they think they could have been in a different life where it's like right this is a movie about you without those resources possibly like i think part of the empathy of the movie is he understands that's like well maybe if i didn't have those economic and mental resources i would not have been able to become a filmmaker and i might not have figured out what i wanted to do with my life you know but

he worked over time to try to position this as like no this movie's an act of imagination for me it's like empathetic imagination it's not any form of interiority uh soul searching yeah um i i just have to imagine i mean it's interesting be fair, he did write this movie years earlier. Like that's the sort of, you know, because obviously the movie's coming out in the middle of his life, essentially. But like he did, I suppose, write it more in the sort of like post Boys in the Hood phase of his career. And he wanted it for Tupac and all that. But like, you know, it feels more personal than some of his work especially some of his upcoming work you know what i mean like it kind of feels like his last personal movie yeah it's his last like

intimate drama uh it's this sort of it's it's this weird grace note on a career that continues that that which is just that that rarely happens. Yeah. And I, you know, I agree with Io that I think there would have been a second act for him, whether it had continued in television or back to movies or whatever it was. It did feel like he was evolving into another stage of his career after being lost in the wilderness for a little bit uh but right because he tragically dies young this ends up being like kind of the last movie of its kind in his career and the next three films are odd in their own ways do we have anything else we want to say about baby boy the thing that i just don't particularly vibe with in this movie is the ending where Omar Gooding shoots Snoop Dogg. Just because it feels like it's kind of happening to have something happen at the end.

I just don't really... And also, it's hard for me not to imagine, like, okay, so what happens? Nobody gets arrested? Nobody that comes after these guys? Right. And they're also, like, Omar Gooding had said at one point earlier he wants to get baptized in the movies like yeah he you know what he kind of converted to christianity he got over it this character that's sort of like in the background of a lot of scenes but is you know we don't really delve into too much like

they don't but that's like yeah it's issue, which is you're watching this movie. You most likely have already seen Boys in the Hood. Right. In that movie, Omar Gooding's brother is on the fence about taking part in some like revenge. Right. And like sits it out ice cube makes the move and the movie famously ends with ice cube disappearing and you being told that he was killed in like retaliation two weeks later right so it's like you're having all these visions of the guy dying but when you actually get to the scene i

guess that's a scene to talk about where they they go attack the um the the gang of dudes who jumped him and sort of just try to embarrass them above all else and like omar gooding is the instigator like he's the dough boy in that situation and tyrese is the guy who's constantly waffling in and out and like how much he wants to be doing this it does feel odd that that final shooting against snoop dog is just sort of like and then that just happened when the same decision is made boys in the hood and it like destroys everyone's life you know it's like a thing of such consequence that then in this it's like and then we see omar good and get baptized in the end credits as you said it's just sort of like this odd i don't know it makes it feel

like snoop dog is some like uh boss level of a video game you know where it's just like well and then of course you have to defeat him it ends also in this way i don't know i keep thinking about like i because it's the end credits and also there's that thing there's a little bit of like when omar gooding gets baptized it almost reminds me of the beginning of like tyrese in in utero and like i don know. I know it's happening and I know it's real, but there is a part of me that I'm like, maybe it's not. And he's also ramping that shit up

more towards the end of that movie. I think the sequence, the drive-by shooting with Snoop Dogg is a really good sequence where he thinks that he has been shot. That sequence is phenomenal. It totally works. That sequence is phenomenal. His perspective works. That sequence is phenomenal. His perspective, but also in that period of time when he thinks he's been shot or is imagining that he was shot, you're seeing the glimpses of like the life that he's not going to live.

Right. And there's like that really interesting montage of like him imagining getting married to Taraji, but also him replaying his moments of embarrassment and it's both like literal memory and projections of a possible future and like that scene kind of crystallizes i feel like the most interesting shit this movie has going on which is just like it's about a guy who's sort of at like a crossroads, despite the fact that he feels like he's in no rush to need to do anything. Um, all of that in credit shit.

I do agree. IO, like I believe it's meant to be taken literally, but tonally it does feel kind of closer to all of those projection fantasy sequence glimpses. It's an interesting movie. I don't know a lot going on it's an interesting movie not bad in it it's just it's just it's just a weird subplot taraji is amazing tyrese is great thing is amazing there's a lot of great things but also i'm yeah i'm not sure it's not the kind of movie where i would just be like you should check out baby boy

oh what's it about um you know like you know it's not the easiest. It's not the kind of movie where I would just be like, you should check out Baby Boy. Oh, what's it about? You know, like, you know, it's not the easiest sell. It's not the easiest watch. It's really intense and, you know, kind of difficult. But it's also really funny and, you know, has a lot of scenes that, like you said, Io, like if you just have this on, right, there are scenes that you grew to hate because they were just so memorable, basically.

Yes, basically. Yes, basically. Yes, I remembered the movie too much and I resented it. Sure. Right. But like there are scenes that are just so compelling in this. Like the condom car argument, the scene where Ving Rhames gets him in a headlock. Yes.

The final Ving Rhames Tyrese gun scene is kind of amazing as well. Another moment of like like this isn't real blocking but it's effective it's super effective yes it's very theatrical like um but I I don't know it's like it's it's an interesting glimpse of a side of Singleton that never really got to develop past this perhaps you know um it's just so fucking odd that it's like 2000 shaft 2001 baby boy 2002 too fast too furious it makes this film feel even more anomalous and then you know then he just makes two smaller commercial action movies of which you know four brothers is you know obviously more personal but it's still him trying to make a hit movie yeah i i want to well let's play the box office game but before that i just have a couple pieces of breaking news i want to

drop to you guys that it broke while the podcast was happening. One, the Golden Globes will not be happening next year. Wow. NBC will not air them, and they've been essentially canceled. So that's one thing. Wow. No Globes. Good riddance. Yeah.

Is this like Emily in Paris protest? Yeah, exactly. and paris is returning her globes in fury did she win them i forget uh tom cruise returning his globes though tom cruise actually returned his globes yes all three of them was that is that your other piece of news no my other piece of news is dave bautista has been cast in the Knives Out sequel, which I kind of love. Absolutely, yes. I kind of dig that. All the way. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway. Oh, good for everybody involved. Dave Bautista, who famously fought Daniel Craig on a train in one of the Bond movies. Yeah. I think Spectre. I can't even remember.

Yeah. So they're back together. That man's so big. I'm sorry. I've got to say it. You just have to acknowledge how large he is. Good for Rian Johnson. He seems like he's like chilling.

I think he is chilling like a villain. Yes. I hope they announce that Dave Bautista is also getting $95 million for the Knives Out sequel. What if that's the thing? Everyone has to get the same amount of money. So eventually the movie costs billions of dollars and only 12 people are involved because they're like a bunch of out of control wait i have another piece of breaking news hit me please that's so exciting for only the person involved in the breaking news joseph gordon levitt confirmed secret knives out cameo oh oh my god he had one that or he's going to have one is he like a voice on a phone what was

his had one he had one in 2019 and he will have one in the future whoa he's had a cameo in every single one of ryan johnson's films from brick to the brothers bloom and even star wars the last gen and i who did he that i'd love to keep it who did he play in knives out it it's a voice in the beginning keep your ears open wow okay okay a threat literally literally a threat from joseph fucking gordon levitt and i actually put the fucky in the wrong place i should have put it between gordon and levitt and i agree i agree that was a mistake but you know yeah hey writing is rewriting that's what i'm writing is rewriting. That's what I do. Writing is rewriting.

That's the Kaminsky method in effect right there. I've never claimed to do anything else. Correct. That is the method itself in practice. Okay, David, let's play the box office game. This movie came out on June 29th, 2001. Okay. Like a wild thing to think about.

Shrek. Is Shrek still in the five? Shrek is number seven. Great guess is it is in the 10 here's the thing griffin it'll it's been a very long time but we did this box office game many years ago because this is the weekend that ai artificial intelligence came out wow june they dropped that in june that movie is the least June movie ever made. That movie should come out in like the secret month after December. Yeah.

It's a very Nebuary. It's a Nebuary release. It is funny that like studios used to put like harrowing personal passion projects from auteur directors in the middle of the summer. And they were like, I don't know. They had hits in the past. Maybe you want to see this movie about a robot boy, recognizing that none of his feelings are real. Right.

So ugly, ugly, ugly movie. Did, did you see that thread? That was like, what's a movie that you think like truly put evil into the world? The evil movie thread.

And nobody said AI. Wow. Makes you think it's my kind of evil here, but And nobody said AI. Wow. Makes you think. It's my kind of evil. Here's the thing. And I want to shout out that at number nine is Crazy Beautiful, which is a great movie that was sort of like an instant VHS classic. But AI is an underwhelming number one, right? Yeah. It's opening to $30 million, which I think was underwhelming, right?

Sure. Yeah, exactly. to 30 million dollars which is i think was underwhelming right sure this is yeah exactly um but number two three and four are all franchise movies two franchise starters and a sequel so number two griffin okay uh it's the start of a long-running franchise still going it'll be welcoming us back to theaters soon it's the fast and the furious it's the fast and furious and i also realized connection there's a connection here his movie it's looming in the future of of in like his opening and how is how is john to know that's cool my my timeline was wrong i forgot that too fast too furious is 2003 right but it is interesting that this weekend fast and furious and it's what second weekend it is its second

weekend is beating john singleton in his first weekend and singleton's like i guess if you can't beat him join him yep pretty much um and so that's doing great it's made 80 million bucks basically you know huge hit a huge hit um there i remember what i believe is next at the box office, because this is a pivotal moment in my life where my mother dropped my brother and I off at the theater and said, you guys pick what you want to see, like leaving us alone to see a movie by ourselves. And I desperately wanted to see Dr. Doolittle. Correct. That is number three at the box office. And my brother, Jamesy, pushedy push for fast and furious a gift that has kept on giving right uh i have seen dr doolittle too i remember there's a bear that

poops yeah it's all it's about mating i think i don't know don't remember i think they're camping a lot in that movie i have you seen dr doolittle too um no all right probably i mean probably like in the back seat of like a suv or something like on a dvd player yes i think i saw it like a at a children's birthday party or something that that was like an era where eddie murphy phoning in a dr doolittle sequel three years later and like 10 million americans are like, I guess I'm contractually obligated to go see this. Sure, I guess they should make 200 million. Like it just makes $100 million. Yep. Right.

It should have been called Dr. Do-Little-More. Anyway, number four at the box office. Dr. Do-More. Yes, Ayo! Ayo, yes! Yes, yes, yes, Ayo. As I said previously. Number four.

It's a video game film. It's a film based on a video game. It's summer 2001. And there's a franchise? It's Lara Croft Tomb Raider. It is the beginning of a short franchise because it is Lara Croft Tomb Raider starring Angelina Jolie. Of course, they would make one more,

and then they would reboot it. And now there's a sequel coming? Ben Wheatley is supposed to make the sequel, but we'll see if it ever happens. He got fired. It's someone else now. Someone else. Did he?

Yes, someone else is making it now, but now I can't remember who it is. And he's doing the Meg 2? He is doing the Meg 2 instead. Maybe he didn't get fired i shouldn't say but he's not attached anymore tomb raider 2 is now attached to alicia vickander flop season sorry wow uh it is now attached to misha green the creator of uh lovecraft country is gonna direct tomb raider and yeah yeah that's. Yeah, that doesn't sound good.

I like that first Tomb Raider movie. I felt like that had the bones of a good franchise. Let me make sure she doesn't follow me on Twitter. Has some fun stuff. Alicia or Misha? That's who I... Yeah, Alicia on the burner. Oh boy, Alicia Vikander. Does she have a Twitter?

Doesn't look like she does. Good for her. Oh, boy. Alicia Vikander. Does she have a Twitter? Doesn't look like she does. Good for her. Yeah, we're united on that one, Griffin. That movie's fun. It's kind of fun. It's kind of fun. It's got fun stuff. It also has some sort of boring stuff.

But, like, when she's a bike messenger, that's fun. And when she has to solve puzzles, the color puzzle at the end of the movie, that's the best part. The color puzzle scene is good, yes. the color puzzle at the end of the movie. That's the best part. The color puzzle scene is good. Yes. Um,

it is kind of astounding though, where like, uh, Tomb Raider feels like it should just be a slam dunk autopilot franchise. And they've essentially taken three bites at the apple and not gotten particularly close. The closest they got was the Jolie movie. The first one, that one at least made money.

Well, yeah, but it's bad. It's horrible. So fucking boring. It's one of the worst my dad still cites that as one of the worst films he's ever had to see right and i go like the worst and he's like because most of the bad movies i took you to as a kid i could sleep

through but that one was also loud too loud uh young daniel craig in that one too of course hot bringing it back around uh yeah shrek is in there atlantis the lost empire is in there uh pearl harbor oh i could have guessed that one yeah you didn't give io the chance to guess i only do the top five usually i'm sorry there was no chance to guess in this game also griffin no offense you were in the memory palace when when it's 2001 when griffin was 13 years old he's in the memory palace but this is another thing you have to understand this is the week i believe before i go to sleep away camp for the first time in my life so i'm fucking getting in all the movies i can okay well did you see the movie so insane to like have this much like memory did you did you see the movie opening at number 12 this week

directed by a very canceled comedian freddy got finger no pootie tang oh pootie tang pootie tang sorry sorry freddy got finger came out in april um i did not see it in theaters i'm actually realizing this i think was the week i screamed also i got really excited to know something i saw i saw put it on vhs when it came out i remember being upset that i didn't see it while it was playing because it was only in theaters for like five days that i missed it i was very amped for it yeah so bad uh yeah that's it but yeah watch it on vhs watched it many times yeah i saw atlantis in theaters you saw atlantis in theaters did you see well i saw atlantis in theaters yeah and i saw shrek in theaters shrek was the first movie i saw in theaters shrek was the first movie you saw in

theaters how young are you yeah distressing um well i was 15 and i also saw shrek in theaters oh i said sorry yeah oh i said sorry apology accepted um i also saw swordfish in theaters which is number 10 at the box office i didn't see that one in theaters but i saw almost all of these in theaters that yeah i saw all of these i did not see atlantis in theaters or dr doolittle too but yes this was a big theater time for me for sure for certain god sorry i wasn't even i wasn't even six i think it was five did you like shrek i'm so sorry i'm so I love Shrek. Well, I saw it more than once. That was part of it. And now Shrek is

20 years old, which is disgusting. Yeah, I saw it. Shrek 20th anniversary in theaters. I went to the theaters and saw Shrek. You went to a recent 20th anniversary screening of Shrek? Yeah, but it was kind of a mess because basically well, it was like the theater's first

week open. You're telling me a post-COVID 20th anniversary screening of Shrek was kind of a mess because basically well it was like the theater's first week open you're telling me a a post-covid 20th anniversary screening of shrek was kind of a mess what are you talking about it basically was like um the theater was like its first week open so they barely had any candy only the cherry icy work they didn't have any of the other flavors they had no chocolate candy so i couldn't even get m&ms with my popcorn then we went in the theater barely finished the first act what happens the screen goes black what it starts well that's because the first act of shrek is so good that it probably just burned the reel. That's probably what happened. Well, the reel burned up and fizzled in the viewfinder.

And then what started playing? QVC. What? Just the home shopping network? Literally the home shopping network started playing. I know. That's quite a story. That is pretty funny.

I'm now imagining them being like, fuck, I don't know. Try and get another copy of the DCP. Throw on QVC just to distract these idiots. It was really crazy. We got a refund. That aside, how did Shrek play for you today? It's like funny because I remembered 90% of the script. And I remembered also like quoting things with my with my friends as jokes that weren't jokes.

They were just lines from Shrek. Sure. Also, it looked horrible. That's what's bad. It is a terrible-looking movie. I cannot imagine what it would look like watching that on a theater now. It looked so terrible looking movie. I cannot imagine what it would look like watching that on a theater now. Looked so bad. Yeah.

Like in every respect, it looked awful. But it was like fun to see attractive theaters. And also in the theater, like so it was just me and my friend and then like a mother and her young daughter. And I think like maybe the dad or something. And it was really funny. Like the kid was like barely laughing yeah it just feels like we dunked on Shrek we were dismissive about Shrek in some episode a year or two ago and a lot of our listeners like closer to your age than ours got very defensive about it yeah we're old as fuck 87 but like my sister was three when shrek

came out i saw shrek three times opening weekend i was all about shrek my sister watched it all the fucking time she had all the shrek toys like shrek was like a very prevalent thing i was a fan at the time but i just in my mind's eye was like star on the hollywood walk of fame well look he is a star i'm not gonna argue against that for a second he's a star you can't fake that he paid for that you know he put it yeah yeah he put it he put it up there yeah oh what's next tom crew's gonna return his damn star grow up what do you think this is oh my god they should what if shrek announced that he was returning his best animated feature golden globe he should yeah um uh i'm seeing a new story here uh hollywood foreign press association promises top to bottom reform hires lord farquad to run oh he's he's no good. Oh, no. That guy?

Oh, no. My thing, Io, and I feel like your story supports this, is I just think watching Shrek today, it is an ultimate time capsule movie that I think your relationship to watching it is going to be completely tied to your memories of it at the time. And as you said, I cannot imagine that movie

making sense to a child today it was so reactionary like everything about that movie was standing in opposition against what disney was at the time which it isn't anymore yes weird yes very weird but anyways i mean i don't know it's like that movie to me is just kind of like an onion oh okay i oh i was i was i was debating making the same joke no you weren't i was i was i was thinking about it i was thinking about it and i'm glad you made it instead you delivered it better it's got layers all right uh let's wrap it. Thank you so much for being on the show. You're the funniest people in the world. You're the best, Io. David sounding exhausted.

Well, look, come on. I'm sleeping like four hours a night. Give me a break. You guys are pepping my step. Hey, listen. I'm not having a baby. That's what I did in order to get a good night's sleep. I just didn't have a baby. So that's what I did in order to get a good night's sleep.

I just didn't have a baby. Yeah. Right. And this is my method is I didn't have a baby and I also don't sleep well. So I need to find some, I need to pick a lane. The two of you have it figured out and I'm stuck in the middle. Well,

I can stay up late doing podcasts in the morning. I'm making waffles. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. late doing podcasts. True. In the morning, I'm making waffles. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Watch The Kaminsky Method on Netflix. Watch Big Mouth. Anything else?

Iconography, Dormant. Yeah, listen to old iconography episodes. It's currently Dormant, but we're trying to chef up some stuff. Yeah, come on. Wasn't all the episodes. I don't know. Yeah, they're evergreen. Evergreen content. Next week, we're finally doing it. We're kicking things into gear for the first

time ever in the history of Blank Check. We are covering a Fast and Furious movie. Too Fast, Too Furious with John Gabrus. That's right. Tune in for that. Wow. I'm really happy for you, Griffin.

It's a big day. It's going to be a big fucking day. And also, we could not have timed this out better. And we didn't know because the movie's gotten fucking punted a bunch of times on the release schedule. But our episode is now coming out like four days before fast nine comes out are you seeing fast nine in theaters uh i am currently investigating the rates to rent out a private screen and how many people i could invent so i could uh just see fast and furious nine with me familia uh it's most of the people i have now not seen in 15 months oh my god i'm wishing you nothing but but luck and joy i look i want to i'm trying to be realistic

about this but my expectations currently are that it needs to be the single greatest day of my life and if it isn't i will be crushed yeah that's that sounds like to me. That sounds fair. Putting everything on the idea of seeing this movie with my friends. Sure. But thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media.

Thank you to Leigh Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song. Pat Reynolds and Joe Bowen for our artwork. J.J. Bursch and Nick Laureano. Yes. Thank you.

Uh, and, uh, AJ McCann and Alex Baron for our, uh, editing assistance. And you can go to blankies.red.com for some real nerdy shit and go to our T public page for,

uh, or our Shopify page, both for some real nerdy merch. And as always. Trying to think of another Shrek quote. Donkey. Donkey. And as always, donkey.

And as always always Donkey. And there's always Donkey. Not my buttons. Not my gumdrop buttons. That one too.