Blank Check with Griffin & David - Batman Begins

Episode Date: July 16, 2017

Griffin and David discuss the first film in Nolan’s Dark Knight Trilogy, Batman Begins. What happened behind-the-scenes at Warner Bros. post-Batman & Robin? How did Nolan help contribute to the current trend of peak superhero cinema? Will Batman vape in Justice League? They examine the connection to the animated series, rope work, the lightning guy that Bale yelled at, custom studio logos and so much more!

A vigilante is just a man lost in the scramble for his own gratification. He can be destroyed or locked up. But if you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, if they can't stop you, then you become something else entirely. Which is? A podcast, Mr. Wayne! Great impression. Thank you, that's the best I've ever done, Eason.

You landed the plane! Hello everybody, my name's Griffin Newman. I impression. Thank you. That's the best I've ever done, Eason. You landed the plane. Hello, everybody. My name's Griffin Newman. I'm David Simms. We are hashtag the two friends. Taking a little yawn there, a little stretch. No, I was preparing myself to land the plane. We're hashtag the two friends. That's your competitive advantage. We're two friends. We host a

podcast. There's no other podcast like that. It's never happened before. And will never happen again. No, of course not. And the immortal words of Miss Piggy, never before, never again. We copyrighted it. Friends aren't allowed to host podcasts now. Never before. This podcast is called Blank Check with Griffin and David. Hello.

Hi. You know us. We just introduced ourselves. Taking a sip of water. This is a podcast where we look at filmographies, overanalyze them. Directors who had massive success early on in their career and then were issued a series of blank checks to make whatever wild and crazy

films they want. Sometimes those checks clear. Huh! Sometimes they bounce, Mr. Wayne. You got me. Mason! We're on a podcast mini-series about the films of Christopher Nolan that is called The Podnight Cast. Yes.

And today we finally got to the point where we, as your humble hosts, get to introduce you to the Podnight himself. Batman? Batman. The well-known man of of capes yes his name is batman cape person his name is batman and he's about to begin you seen that lucy k bit about the batman i'm just i just think about that which bits that it's like it's like where he's talking about there was a bat loose in like an upstate new york house and he like called the police and the person was like oh i can put you in touch with this person who's good with bats and louis is like halfway through realize it's like this person's trying not to say batman

anyway uh mike lawrence has the great batman bit that's like the kind of joke that everyone's made but he like crystallized it the best yeah about batman being like the ultimate republican hero yes where he runs down all of his villains and he's like a burn victim who's unwilling to let go of the loose change he has a crazy cat lady the theatrical magician who wears makeup like it's just every sort of like republican nightmare um we'll talk about it. People thought these movies were right wing. You know, that was a thread that carried through. Yeah, well.

And I, especially re-watching this movie through that prism, have somewhat of a counter argument. But this is where it all begins. Where the Batman begins. The year is 2002. Christopher Nolan's hot off of insomnia he's cold off of insomnia it's chilly

it's chilly and he's tired that's a cold movie brrrr it's cold in here there must be some Nolan in the atmosphere terrible

let's start over Ben delete the entire podcast yeah the podcast is gone oh Ben's here it never existed oh producer Ben's here aka Ben Dusser aka producer Ben aka the poet laure gone. Oh, Ben's here. It never existed. Oh, Producer Ben's here, a.k.a. Ben Dusser,

a.k.a. Producer Ben, a.k.a. The Poet Laureate, a.k.a. The Haas, a.k.a. Mr. Positive, a.k.a. Birthday Benny, a.k.a. The Tiebreaker, a.k.a. The Meat Lover, a.k.a. The Fart Detective,

a.k.a. The Peeper. He's not Professor Crispy. He is the Fuckmaster. If you see him on the streets, wish him a hello fennel. And of course, he's graduated certain titles over the course of different miniseries,

such as... Producer Ben Kenobi, Kylo, Ben Say Benny Thing, Ben Knight Shyamalan Ben Sate and Warhouse. Oh also Ailey Bens with the dollar sign Now we're done. Almost missed it Hey guys I'm here too Excited to talk about this movie Yeah he's got a take or two

Oh I got some hot takes This is where Batman starts I want to say that his notepaper is headed with Batman starts I mean beginning underlined we got Griffin hold on let me just check that off

great so Batman Great. So Batman. So we're just. Oh boy. Come on. All right. Throttle down.

Throttle down. It's OK. OK. We're going to be OK. Batman begins. It's two. Oh. Oh.

Two. He goes in for meeting at Warner Brothers. Uh-huh. Batman? Batman. Batman himself? The Caped Crusader? Yeah.

And, uh, you know, as Mr. Wally Fester, who I worked with on the tech, premiering August 25th on Prime Video, told me, because this was a little different than how I heard the story

told in the press, they were really happy with Insomnia. They were like, this is clearly kind of a major filmmaker we're dealing with here. And they had a meeting with him where they said like, here are some of the hot things we have.

Are you interested in any of these? And they weren't even really pushing Batman on him. They weren't thinking him for Batman. And he kind of started stewing. He started going like, wait a second, what about that Batman guy? Of course, the Batman film franchise

had gotten off to a humongous start with Tim Burton's film in 89. Then parents and general audiences flip out in a negative way at Batman Returns, which is a secret masterpiece. Not even so secret anymore, right?

Right. But it was a secret masterpiece. Not even so secret anymore, right? But it was a controversial movie. It made significantly less than the first one. They ax him out. They bring in Joel Schumacher. They go, make it more like a comic book. Sure, but I think he also had the pitch of like, hey, Batman is a kitsch hero, like Adam West. Right.

Why don't we tap into that? Right. And he combines that with his experience as a man who used to be a window dresser for department stores. I love Joel Schumacher. Look. I'm not saying that in a negative way, but that is very much the aesthetic of that movie. The aesthetic of that movie is Barney's department store window. For sure. Look, have you read the oral history in the Hollywood Reporter about Batman Forever?

It's awesome. And the production designer talking about his vision of Gotham City is awesome. And the most interesting thing about it is Joel Schumacher saying that when the movie came out and everyone called him being like, it's a hit. He was like, you're kidding me. They were like, we're going to make another one. And he was like, no one wanted to make another one. No one was prepared for it to be a hit. It had the biggest opening weekend of all time.

It was now. It was actually because in my head, Batman Forever was a bigger hit. The biggest Batman yet. But it wasn't. It just was a bigger hit than Batman Returns. It was a bigger phenomenon. And it opened Batman. The Burton movie was like a phenomenon beyond any other.

Right. I mean, it was the original modern blockbuster. People talk about Star Wars and Jaws, but Batman set the template that I think we're still going off of today. Yeah. In terms of just general saturation. Yeah, definitely. And like an aggressive advertising campaign that is focused on iconography.

Right. Not like a trailer where it's like, here comes at night, the Batman. Like, you know, like it's just like. There will never be a better advertising campaign than the original Batman because it was like the one film where they had a piece of iconography

that was so simple and so iconic and so well known. They could just make the poster the bat symbol with a date and you don't have to say fucking anything else. Also, they got Seal on board. That's Batman Forever. Yeah, Seal's on Batman Forever, but they got R. Kelly for Batman and Robin. And they got, Prince obviously did an entire album,

wrote an entire album about the Batman. One day we're going to do my Batman series blank check. Don't make it sound like it's your series. I love Batman. No, it was my pitch. My pitch to you. Yeah, I know. Anyway, Batman and Robin

flop. Flop. They give him a real blank check. They go, we love what you did in the last one. Do more of that. And the check bounces. I think they gave him, but I also think there was a lot of pressure to include a lot of toys. Toyetic was the term that came

out of that movie. They said, we need more toyetic sequences. A bat bomb? Right. You know who they gave a blank check? Arnold Schwarzenegger. You know how much he made? 25? 25 million dollars. You know how many days he was on set? 17? Less than 25. He made more than

a million dollars per day of work someone i talked to worked on that movie said anytime he's not in close-up it's not him uh yeah anytime in that movie right it's just like a distant shot or whatever right right it's it's a double he only did the close-ups uh-huh or any like a moving shot where you have to see him in the suit you know where the camera slowly tracks into his face or whatever. But that's not the film we're talking about. That's the movie where Batman bounced and they went Batman!

Not only did Batman bounce, like the superhero movies kind of bounced for a little bit where studios were kind of like, I guess we can't just rely on these being critic proof. Correct. You know, maybe we should give them to real people. And Batman and Robin was also one of the first films where the studios blamed the internet.

Yeah, sure. Like the nerds had had their revenge. Yes. But not like in the movie Revenge of the Nerds. Booger was nowhere to be seen this time. This time it was Harry Knowles. Oh. Yeah, exactly. The nerds have been like, no, this is not this time. This time it was Harry Knowles? Oh. Yeah, exactly.

The nerds have been like, no, this is not our Batman. You messed it up. But there was an Aynacool review that came out early from a test screening and said, like, this movie is fucking toxic. It's a bad movie. It's a bad movie. Did you see it in theaters? You were little. Did.

I loved it. I saw it in theaters and you were probably like seven or eight years old. I would have been nine. I think I was 11 or 12. That's a key difference. And I remember but it was one of the first movies I saw in a theater where I walked out and I was like I'm not sure that I liked that. Like I was

11. Usually when I saw a movie I was like great. Like I had fun. That was the first Batman movie I had seen in theater. So I was just so into like the fucking grandeur of it and everything. You had butts and nipples and ice and flowers. It's got it all. That was the tagline for the movie.

Butts, nipples, ice and flowers. It's got it all. Anyway, we can talk about the sort of Disco Sucks-esque imagery. I'm sorry. The Disco Sucks-esque like dismissal of Batman and Robin that maybe gets a little too. But anyway, the point is you got three years later, you got Bryan Singer doing X-Men.

Right. I feel like that's the turnaround where studios are like, maybe these should be a little smaller. They don't need to have movie stars in them. Like, you know, an Arnold Schwarzenegger or whatever. And we can give them to like up and coming serious.

And maybe you engage with them a little more intellectually. Yes. You know? Because I remember reading an interview with Bryan Singer like where he had just made App People and his agent was like, they want you to do X-Men. And he said like, what? I don't do that shit. Like comic books?

That's lame. Like I don't do that. Right. Because it was such a like poisonous idea that, you know, like for hacks that you would make a superhero movie. And then he got talked into it. And it was Richard Donner and Lauren Schuller Donner were producers. They had the X-Men property. And a young man named Kevin Feige.

I was going to say Kevin Feige was the Donner's executive. He was like their junior assistant. And that was when he was on set, had never read a comic book before in his life, did the research. He was like, I'm into this. And then dug in. But at the same time, Warner Brothers says Batman. And so for years there was this thing. Can I run through some of their...

Yeah, I was going to say. Yeah. They kept on saying like, okay, we're trying to develop like three Batman projects. There has to be a way to bring Batman back. And they kept on throwing stuff at the wall. Let me give you some ideas. So first, Schumacher after Batman and Robin. They still are like, do you want to make a fifth one

because it's before I think it flossed but after it had been in the can yeah because he delivers the movie on time there's it's not like the production was torture and they were like can't miss doesn't matter if it's bad I don't know whatever and like it still made like a hundred million dollars which was bad but like it's not like it was like

a total bomb it just didn't do well it just had a lower opening than expected and a lower total than expected bad word of mouth um so schumacher was like hey why don't we make like a dark batman batman triumphant i believe was his title no it's often been known as that but the real title i am reading i did a lot of research okay just was batman unchained okay that sucks. It's a bad title. He wanted Nicolas Cage to play the Scarecrow. And he wanted it to be a little more of a darker Batman. The other thing I've heard is that he wanted Madonna to play Harley Quinn.

Yes. Who at the time was going to be rewritten to be the Joker's daughter. Yes. And there would be flashbacks to the Joker and they wanted to get Nicholson back, which seems like a stretch. They were going to pay Nicholson like $2 million to be in hallucination sequences for when the scarecrow shoots his gas out. But he said he wanted to be more of a Frank Miller.

They were going to get Clooney back as Batman, Chris O'Donnell as Robin, Alicia Silverstone as Batgirl. Because you remember Batman and Robin ends with them all running out in front

of the Bat-Signal? It's like, finally, the three heroes. I believe the tagline for that movie is family forever. I think that's one. Yeah, yeah, like, right, yeah. It's like, you know, justice for now. Yes, exactly.

It was the end of a long series of taglines. Family forever. So then they're like, Batman Robin does bad. They're like, forget it, forget it. And so Schumacher's like like what if we do Batman year one the Frank Miller comic like we reboot it and they were like

maybe but not you so Joel Schumacher's gone I don't think it ever went far but there was briefly internally the notion of what if we did Dark Knight Returns

with Clint Eastwood that I've never heard of I think that was like a spitball kind of there was never any traction to that. Everything I've read is they had two projects and developments spinning up at the same time. They had Batman Year One. And Batman Beyond.

And then Batman Beyond, which was the cartoon that was like set in the future with like an old Batman. Right, but either way they were like hard reboot. We either need to go right back to the beginning or we need to do a new Batman in the future. And they were getting these going and they were kind of just thinking like, whichever looks better will greenlight. Boaz Yatkin of Remember the Titans was supposed to do Batman Beyond. Oh God, God.

Good pull, right? Yeah, that's great. Well done. And then Aronofsky was the one who was on Batman Year One for a while. He was co-writing it with Frank Miller, but the script was very different than Frank Miller's Batman Year One comic.

Yeah. He was totally re like conceptualizing the material and they had bail Christian bail in mind as a possible Batman, which is really fun. It was, um, I mean, makes some sense. I mean,

he was an obvious choice, like a lot of ways. He was the right age. He was a respected actor. He was weird. Yeah. Like Bruce Wayne wasn't a billionaire. Alfred was

like an auto mechanic yeah they lived in a garage the Batman was like an Oldsmobile the Batmobile was an Oldsmobile two other things

I want to mention apart from this project also Lee Shapiro who is a Hollywood screenwriter pitched them a movie called Batman Dark Knight, where the K is capitalized. You know, so it's like dark K night.

You know, like it's like one word. Griffin's just like closing his eyes in frustration. He pitched this where it was like Batman's retired. Dick Grayson works at Gotham University and it was like a Scarecrow movie like set

at Arkham Asylum and like Man Bat was going to be involved. So like and Warner Brothers was thinking about this. They had like a lot of ideas.

It is interesting that everything kept on coming back to Scarecrow. Well, I think it was like they had done all of the other major villains and Scarecrow just kind of made sense, especially for a quote unquote darker Batman. And also he does have a pretty cinematic attack. Yes. Because it's like,

oh, you could do these dreams, nightmares, hallucinations. Sorry, I just got gassed there. No, that's fine.

But there's like five years where they can't get anything off the ground. I've got more to tell you. There's so much good shit. So Aronofsky has his year one script. They don't like it. Guess who rewrites it for them? The Wachowskis.

They don't like that script either. Guess who rewrites it after that? Cameron Crowe. Joss Whedon. They don't like that either. So then they can year one. They're like, fuck it. They start moving forward on Batman versus Superman.

Remember that? Oh, right. Directed by Wolfgang Peterson. Which was going to be called World's Finest. And yeah. And it was. Air Force One. What's his name?

Andrew Kevin Walker. The seven guy was writing the script. Jesus. And it was Jude Law and Colin Farrell were going to play Superman and Batman respectively in a movie in which the Joker murders Lois Lane. Oh, for fuck's sake. It just sounds so bad. And then through some chain of events, that leads to Batman and Superman having to fight each other.

And that was going to be a real, like, alien versus predator fight movie where, like, the last 40 minutes were all fight rather than the movie we got where they fight for two minutes and then talk about their moms. Martha. 40 minutes raw fight rather than the movie we got where they fight for two minutes and then talk about their moms. Martha.

And then they talk about like maybe turning this into Superman flyby which was this other idea that anyway. But that movie came really close to getting made. It was like a serious thing.

And then Superman flyby came by even closer. Wolfgang Peterson was gonna make it. Right. Yeah. Then 2003 they

I don't even know like why it all gets swept aside, except maybe it's just a lot of bullshit. None of it really connects. But they say to Christopher Nolan, do you want to make Batman? Well, but what I'm saying is apparently...

I mean, he pitched them. I know that. Apparently they said, here's the slate of stuff we have. Here's stuff that you could have. Sure. And they weren't even really pushing Batman on him. And he said, I think I have a take on Batman.

Right. And he was working with David S. Goyer, who writes these movies with him, and who I guess was sort of his comic book guy. Right. Like would give him the books. Because Nolan admittedly was not a big comic book guy. And so, you know, Goyer would be like, read the long Halloween. Like, here's some Batman for you, baby.

But he said, take it back. I found it really interesting, actually. You keep talking for a second. I'm going to pull this you know Goyer becomes the guy because he's worked on some of the Snyder movies he had already worked on Blade but I feel like he becomes the guy who everyone blames Goyer for every bad comic book movie

and gives him no credit for the good ones and that might be the correct take I don't really know but he's you know he wrote Batman Begins and he wrote The Dark Knight, the story. Yeah. And he wrote Man of Steel and he wrote Batman

versus Superman. So, you know. Where does Catwoman fit into the picture here? Well, they had done her, you know, with Michelle Pfeiffer in Batman Returns. Right. And I think Catwoman and the Joker, they were just scared because they felt like,

ah, two iconic performances, pretty recent. Let's not try to do those again. Now, of course, studios are like, what? That was like four years ago. Let's just do it again. But they...

There's a little more respect for like, hey, that was recent. Tim Burton for a while was trying to direct a Catwoman spinoff with Pfeiffer. Sure, yes. Oh, cool. Then that fell by the wayside, and then there was a series of, do we do it with Ashley Judd?

Like, whoever the hot, kind of steely, female star of the moment was, they'd try to regurgitate that script. And then in 2003, fresh off the Oscar win, Halle Berry signs on, and they start over a new script with an art director named Pete Toff and that movie comes out the year before this which is really weird to think about. And it is a catastrophe. It's bad. And of course it's more in the old model of like these movies don't have

to be connected to a Catwoman movie. And also it doesn't have to be based on any existing material. No yeah just she's a cat woman right i mean cat woman is like i mean that's a classic bad movie the costume's bad it's set in like a cgi city like the whole thing's a goddamn disaster have you you know she plays basketball with brendan bratt and uh and the conflict of that movie is that i mean sharon stone's yeah it's about like plastic who run a cosmetics company and her cosmetics line gives her like claw-proof skin where now Catwoman can't hurt her.

Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's so sexist. I don't know, like to have the villain be like a beauty cream mogul. Yeah. And have Catwoman's costume be like a bra and shredded pants. I mean, it was all bad. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know who he's going to rate. His bad would not watch again.

I paid $2 to see it in theaters. I remember that. In the Adirondacks. Congratulations. Thank you. So Nolan and... What are you looking up? He's been on his phone for 10 minutes.

I'm trying to find this dumb fucking thing. So Nolan and Goyer pitch a darker, realistic, rebooted Batman. Yeah. And obviously you hear those words now and you're like, oh boy. But in 2005, you know, in this sort of like new and still kind of exciting comic book movie world, that was like, oh, cool. Like maybe a different take on Batman's what we want. And also someone like Nolan making a superhero movie felt really weird.

Which is, to be fair, not dissimilar from Burton getting hired in 1980s, the late 80s, where it was like, this guy, oh, huh. But still, we wanted it. I found the thing I was looking for, and this was kind of his real take. There was a Dark Knight Blu-ray set after the third one came out and nolan wrote this forward talking about like in retrospect how crazy it is that he was given it's true the reins to this and as we talked about last week on the insomnia episode like now it's not crazy at all obviously now you know you make a five million dollar indie

and like right get your comfort but at that moment it was very oh wow and it was a weird match of aesthetics especially coming straight off of burton and schumacher who were different filmmakers but were both very theatrical were both very stylized and heightened dramatically yeah to have nolan who is so kind of sparse and cold uh his quote is, in retrospect, it can only have been my absolute confidence that a return to the old school 70s blockbusters

that I grew up with would be the key to bringing Batman back. I thought my references were original, but it now seems obvious that 10 years ago every studio had been hoping

that every temple they made would take the audience back to the great early days of Spielberg, Lucas, and Bond. Few movies had pushed that particular button and I believe that changes to the craft of filmmaking

were to blame. Right. And that was kind of a big key to his take because a lot of people have been saying, Batman, you're one. Take it back to the beginning. Yeah, yeah. But he said, what if we really do this kind of

old school, classical, kind of tangible, grounded, not just in terms of the story, but in terms of the actual aesthetics of the film, the technique of the film, you know, make it kind of real. And they say yes. And he gets to work on this movie, you know, in. And he hires Bale, who is long been sort of rumored just like the obvious Batman choice. Well, and what I was going to say, which is kind of interesting, you know, they were learning from the mistakes

of Batman and Robin, where the internet and the geek, a lot of Roddy turned against them so hard. They leaked out the list of the short list of candidates they had for Batman. And that went out to in a cool and they monitored who in the comments fans were into. Sure. So the list was like Josh Hartnett, Hartnett came close. went out to Aina Kuhl, and they monitored who in the comments fans were into. Sure, sure, sure.

So the list was like Josh Hartnett, Gyllenhaal. Hartnett came close, and some people have said he turned it down. I've heard that. I don't know. He definitely turned down Superman. Yeah. Henry Cavill was weirdly on that list. Henry Cavill was on like every list.

He was on every James Bond list. For 10, 15 years. Yeah, and then he finally gets Superman. Guy Pearce and Christian Bale. And everyone goes Bale's the guy, Bale's the guy, and they go with Bale. Right, because Bale had been an American psycho and everyone was like, he's got the darkness. And had been a child actor, but wasn't really a big movie star at that point in time. No.

No. But American psycho, right? That was his calling card. And equilibrium, I remember people being like, oh, this is like, this feels like a Batman type character. I remember people being like, oh, this feels like a Batman type character. Equilibrium is like almost as much as the Boondock Saints, one of those movies in college where people would be like, what a cool movie.

You've got to watch it. I watched it. I was like, this is a god awful movie. Equilibrium is a lot better than the Boondock Saints to be clear. That's only because the Boondock Saints is the worst film ever made. Equilibrium's like kind of cute, but bad. Like the gun food thing's kind of cute. The rest of it's basically like 1984 and a blender or whatever, you know, it's sort of like whatever.

But so they're off to the races and this movie comes out. It opens well. It, it will get to that. Closes well. Yeah. It's not a huge hit, but it's a good hit. It's a good hit. You know, especially when they thought

that franchise was kind of like back on its heels you know now it was like on firm ground when it came out it was not thought of as like a surefire 2005 summer hit no and it's weird to think about in retrospect that uh like wedding crashers outperformed batman begins yeah man you know like within that same summer but it was a solid hit. It got good reviews. And people were kind of back on board. And it was this big turning point of like, oh, but what if superhero series? Yeah, because remember the same year Fantastic Four comes out. Right.

And that's your old model. Yes. Now, obviously, again, X-Men had come out. X-Men 2 had come out. Spider-Man had come out. I'm not saying like Batman invented some new version of making a superhero movie, but definitely, come on. There are a lot of big shifts here,

and it's weird watching this movie now when so much of blockbuster culture in the last 10 plus years has cribbed from it. But, you know, I mean, the Daniel Craig Bond movies were reconceived very much in the mold of Batman Begins. And then you have a lot of aborted attempts like McG's Terminator Salvation is definitely trying to do a Christopher Nolan version of Terminator.

Yep, unfortunately instructed by McG. Yeah, that was the problem. Issue, an issue. McG had a good idea. I mean, Bale's in it for crying out loud. Yes, except for the fact that he was making it. Yeah, what don't you fucking understand? He, I believe, was the line.

Remember that, Ben? He yelled at that guy. He remembers! I'll say this. I was talking about that with some of the camera guys on Tick about that bail flip-out thing. And they were like, yeah, but that DP's notorious for that. And I was like, really? And they were like, he still does it to this day.

Like, in the middle of a take, he'll walk and like adjust a light right in an actor's face. I remember when that happened. A lot of the reporting was like, you know, we get it. We get why he'd be mad. It's just the clip is just so insane. Anyway. Yes. And also in retrospect, you could tell like he was angry that he was in that fucking movie. Probably.

But anyway. Okay. So this movie comes out. Yeah. June of 2005. Uh-huh. June 15th, 2005. It was my last day of high school that year.

Whatever that would have been, I think sophomore, junior year. Junior, probably. Well, maybe sophomore. I was in college. I was a summer intern at the Boston Phoenix, living in Boston. Hey. But no, I think I was in London the first time I saw it. I saw it again in Boston.

I can't remember. Anyway, carry on. It was my last day of school. There's the grad party everyone's going to, and I was like, fuck that. I'm going to see Batman. Bartman begins. Yeah. I was a loser.

Yeah. And I went with my friends who were not my friends from school because all of them wanted to go to the grad party. Uh-huh. And we saw the IMAX midnight showing of Batman Begins. That's cool. Because back when you had to go at midnight, party. And we saw the IMAX midnight showing of Batman Begins. That's cool. Back when you had to go at midnight, not 7 p.m. None of that bullshit.

Jesus. I had to stay up past my bedtime. We got some Cold Stone beforehand. Whatever we did. I don't know. But we fucking saw Batman Begins. Bartman Begins. And I remember it was not a sure thing.

I had heard people who said, like, this is kind of cool. I had heard people who said like, this is kind of cool. I'd heard rumblings like this movie is a fucking mess. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. And so I was sitting there. I was hype. I was a big,

cause it was really hype. You didn't know Nolan though. This is your first Nolan movie. This is my first Nolan. Whereas I was obsessed with Memento and I'd liked inside, like I was all in on this movie. But I was very hype cause I was really into the approach and I loved Batman. Yeah.

I'm sorry, Batman. Bartman. Bartman. Bartman. Um, was very hyped because I was really into the approach and I loved Batman. Yay. I'm sorry, Batman. Bartman. Bartman. But I was worried. I was cautiously optimistic. Okay, fine. Jesus Christ. He was worried. He was optimistic. And I sit there opening night and just

immediately I'm like, fucking yeah, I'm on board. This is the Batman movie I always wanted to see. When does it get you? Like almost immediately. Does it come in black? No, I feel like when he was in the prison, the Himalayas, fighting the guys, I was just like, yeah, this is the approach to this character I want. I don't know if this has ever

happened in front of you, but I have a problem with chronic nosebleeds. I don't think it's ever happened in front of me. Not as bad as it used to be, but I will randomly get horrible nosebleeds at certain times. I remember you got one back when we were doing... Talking. Talking TCGS.

Yeah, talking TCGS. Yeah. About 45 minutes into this movie, my nose starts bleeding. That's bad. And I'm clapping my hands underneath my nose, trying to like pull the blood and collect it and stop it from getting on my shirt.

And my friends turn to me and they go like, is everything okay? And I was like, my nose is bleeding. And they were like, shouldn't you go to the bathroom and collect it and stop it from getting on my shirt. And my friends turned to me and they go like, is everything okay? And I was like, my nose is bleeding. And they were like, shouldn't you go to the bathroom and take care of it? And I was like, I'm not doing it until he fucking says I'm Batman.

You had to wait another 20 minutes. I know. I counted exactly when it happened. The second he says I'm Batman, I ran into the bathroom at the Lincoln Square IMAX theater, covered in blood. My hands, like I just committed murder.

Right. And I go to the sink and I'm trying to wash blood off my hands I'm the only one in the bathroom other than a guy dressed up like the Joker and this guy midnight it was the midnight shoot yeah and not ledger Joker but like no it was no Joker and he looks at me he goes like, hey, are you okay, man? And I was like, yes. And then I ran back into the theater. Nerd. Yep. I'm Batman. And then I'm Bloodman. Blood boy, let's be clear. Batman be garns.

Yeah, no, I think I saw it in London before I went to Boston. I was a summer intern though that summer, like July and August. And I was working at the Boston Phoenix but my job as an intern was mostly like nothing you know I like had to like assemble daily clips or I don't know what I did so I would every

almost every day go across the street to the AMC Fenway which was literally across the street and see a movie for lunch and I remember like on my like last week there I came back and it was the first time my boss had been like wanting to talk to me and was like hey where is he and I got away with this totally so I saw it like

two more times there I just would go see it it's so good but it was especially exciting then we like the Batman movie alright guys look what can I tell you it's a fucking good movie I know it's you know like hacky to think of it now but it's great I'll say this like more so than any good movie I know it's you know like hacky to think of it now but I'll say great like

more so than any other movie I think we've ever covered on this show watching this rewatching it last night and I've seen this movie a ton of times right yeah rewatching it last night I was like I actually cannot extricate this movie from my nostalgia for it and my

memories of it and sort of what it represented at the time it's very hard for me to view this movie from my nostalgia for it and my memories of it and sort of what it represented at the time it's very hard for me to view this movie objectively because we are similarly like nerdy overly obsessive guys we love pop psychology and all that shit yeah and to see this character be taken with that kind of level of like thought and detail. Swear to me. Yeah, it was just like, you know, I just remember like pumping my fist. Do I look like a cop?

When I walked out this movie, I was like, I've been fucking vindicated. You know? All right, all right. It felt like a personal victory. But this is the problem with these movies.

Exactly. Right. Now that's what I want to talk about. These fucking idiots are like, ha, like I'm in charge now. Right. Right. I'm the captain now. Right. Right. I'm the captain now.

Right. Everyone became Barkadabdi after seeing this movie. Damn right. And I also think it created this bad dynamic with nerd culture where it's like, I want you to take my thing seriously so I don't feel like a baby for liking something meant for children. Uh, exactly. And it becomes, right, something that's become

incredibly toxic, which is that idea of like, the very idea of making these movies for a wide audience or for children is like, like antithetical to these people. Right. Like, how could you? Like, it has to be dark. I guess it's like the extreme version now is just those like crazy DC Universe bros who are like, Zack Snyder's a genius because he's so twisted.

That was a really good voice. Swear to me. What else is he saying in this movie? Because his voice in this is perfect. Nice coat. Whereas in The Dark Knight, which we'll get to, he's done something. I remember I would watch the Pete Holmes

Batman, the spoofs of it, and I'd be like, right, he's, like, spoofing it. And then you watch, and like, no, he's just doing the voice that he does in The Dark Knight. I remember reading some early review of this movie. I'm wearing hockey pads. Yeah. Then it becomes this strength. I remember reading this early review of the movie on, like, probably in a cool or whatever.

Someone was like, it's really good. Heads up, when he's in the Batman costume, he kind of talks like Alec Baldwin. Like, no one had known that and Batman didn't have any dialogue in the trailers in the costume,

I feel like. Right, right, right. No, he probably, very little. I can't remember. The marketing was, like, very elusive in Minimalist 2. It was.

You really didn't have a sense of what the movie was. I remember, like, one of the key bits in the marketing was that line where the scarecrow goes, like, the Batman.

You know, like, he's coming, the Batman. And they used a lot of Ken Watanabe's Ra's al Ghul monologue. Why not? Why not? Gotham must be destroyed. Yes. And it was just like, oh, the whole thing is going to be Ra's al Ghul trying to burn Gotham to the ground. Sure.

Ken Watanabe fist fighting Batman. Right. Right. Well, yeah, they used a lot of the early part of the movie. Yeah. Anyway. But yeah, then it becomes this thing where like Batman is one property where you can dig into it on a psychological level. Sure.

And the fact that they tried to just break it down and go like, okay, the goal of this movie is figure out what would actually need to happen for this guy to make these decisions. Right. You know, get into the micro and really build it piece by piece. Because we just had Batman and Robin where he doesn't talk and he just talks in normal George Clooney voice. He has a bat credit card. He's like invited to parties and everyone's like, oh, Batman's here. Like the, you know, sanitation commissioners here. Like he's just like a member of Gotham High Society.

And people talk about the dark... I love those movies. They're so insane. People talk about the dark and gritty thing, but it's like this movie's pretty austere looking. It's pretty glossy. And it's dark in that it's shadowy and it's not a toyetic movie. It's like the least toyetic movie

ever made. Right, because I remember during the production when they revealed the Batmobile and it's like the opposite of like a cool car. It's like this weird blocky tank thing. Right. And everyone was like, huh. And the villains are kind of just wearing suits. Yeah.

Yeah. The Scarecrow is just a guy in a suit who puts a bag on his head. Right, but like the term realism kept on being thrown around correctly. And I feel like the bigger thing. It is gritty because it's about like a city that is like overtaken by crime, I guess. It's like a street level movie. I don't know. I think the bigger thing was Nolan trying to apply a level of logic to this type of movie that wasn't usually there.

Yes. Character logic, story logic, these kinds of things. And then people misinterpreted that as like, oh, the whole thing is to be self-serious. Why so? No. Yeah. No as like oh the whole thing is to be self serious why so no but also the funny thing is Richard T. Joker is not in yet he doesn't enter yet well he's mentioned at the end there but no yes he's not but this movie is

though more comic booky and a little more pulpy and silly than the Dark Knight which I love and here I'm going to get this right out of the way go ahead I personally prefer Batman Begins The Dark Knight. Which I love. And here, I'm gonna get this right out of the way. Go ahead. I personally prefer Batman Begins to Dark Knight. Don't at me, bro. I'm not gonna argue it's a

better movie. It comes down to personal preference. I like the fact that this movie is more comic book-y. I think it gives it more latitude. I think they're both good. I think I like The Dark Knight more because I just don't think we'll ever see a movie like that again. That movie's crazy. I like this movie a lot because I just don't think we'll ever see a movie like that again. That movie's crazy.

I like this movie a lot. I've seen it a bunch of times because I saw it in theaters a million times and then I just had it on DVD. We'd watch it in college over and over again. Well, the other thing I like about this movie, and this just gets down to my personal preference, is I like that this movie is really about Batman. Right. This is a Batman movie, whereas The Dark Knight is less of a Batman movie. And almost every Batman movie that's ever been made is more about the villain than it is about Batman.

I'm like running through them in my head. Yes. You know? 100%. But this is the one that really is about Batman and Bruce Wayne as a character. Yeah. I find Batman to be a very interesting character,

especially in all his contradictions. It's especially true like now I'm just thinking about like when you think about the four you know Burton universe movies whatever you want to call them

they have like lots of scenes of the villains. Yes. The villains have like parallel A plots. Right. Whereas in this obviously you have a couple scenes

with a scarecrow on his own but like not so much. Like very little. And you know Richard T. Joker does inrecrow on his own. Not so much. Very little. Richard T. Joker does in Dark Knight, and Michael K. Bane does in The Dark Knight Rises. For sure.

But in this film, it really is. It's all about... Right. No, go ahead. It's all about Batman's development. Christopher J. Batman. Oh, please. But of course the sequels are going to do that anyway, because you've done the legwork on Batman. But my personal preference preference i like a movie that's burrowing into batman's head

and trying to explain piece by piece and this movie does such a fucking good job of that so let's let's just get straight into it swear to me i swear i swear this movie does a good job scene in the movie with mark boone jr i love that he gets mark boone Jr. back in. What a job he does. Okay, so the movie starts with bats flying around, and they make a bat logo, and then they just disperse. Fly away. Which, again, think about the Schumacher movies. Start with these incredibly long title sequences with the score,

where each actor's name swoopsops in and then like it's like Batman and Robin the Warner Brothers logo gets frozen right well in the Batman Forever it like turns into a bat in Batman and Robin it gets frozen oh my god and like you know I really love those movies we've got to talk about them

I feel like we could do an entire episode that's just on movies that customize the studio logo one of my favorite things because it always feels more important like even if the movie's bad it's like the studio was really betting on no but then i get mad if the movie's bad and i'm like exactly you customized your logo for the mummy no no i say no did they no they they have the dark universe okay which is even worse though because it's like you have your universe yeah and then like the universe the, though, because it's like you have your universe. Yeah. And then, like, the universe, the earth goes black. Oh, turns dark? And it, like, reverses.

Like, the universe, the words spin out. The words spin away. And then, like, from the other side comes in, like, dark universe. See, I would have liked it if it was the universal globe and then suddenly bandages start wrapping around. Excellent. That's the kind of start wrapping around. Excellent. That's the kind of stuff I like. Yeah. Yeah.

You know when we'll know there's been real revolutions? When someone messes with the Netflix logo. Yeah. You know, the do-doom. Someone does something weird to that. Maybe they'll do that with Bright. They'll make it twisted. They'll start out like Netflix

and then it'll come out like Flitnex. Because they twisted it. Swear to me. I will. Fuck. How dare you? You told me to swear to you. Fair enough, fair enough.

The film starts out with bats and then we see young Bruce Wayne. Yes, who plays young Bruce Wayne? A boy who is clearly British. This film was mostly shot in London. In London. You sound like you're from London. Gus Lewis is young Bruce Wayne.

He is British, right? He is an English actor. He does a good American accent but you can tell he's putting a little too much his foot's a little too heavy on the gas with certain American words. Apart from this, he's in the movie Asylum, you know, but that's it. But this movie was mostly shot in London. They built the Batcave in Sheppard Studios. They built a lot of the set.

And obviously then the city stuff is Chicago. Chicago. Chicago. Big Chicago. No, little Chicago. Big Chicago is Academy Award nominee Michael Shannon. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I screwed it up.

He's running away. He's playing a game. With the help's daughter. Rachel Dawes. Rachel Dawes. The gardener's daughter. They're hanging out in the greenhouse. They're chasing each other.

And he walks over an unstable patch of wooden boards and falls into a cavern and is attacked by bats. Which is a scene that Burton had done. Yeah. It's a scene that Schumacher does in Batman Forever, and it's a scene that Zack Snyder does in Batman vs. Superman where he's, like, lifted up by the bats. Remember that? Yes, I do.

Now, the complaint, of course, is do we need to see this again? No, it's great. This is the movie where you need to see it again. Because it's scary. And it's also, this movie's Now, the complaint, of course, is do we need to see this again? And I think this is- No, it's great. This is the movie where you need to see it again because this movie- Because it's scary. And it's also, this movie's all about the building blocks. It's all about giving you every little piece. So by the time he wears that suit, you get it all. Yes.

I would say I love this movie, but even in this movie, when he puts on the suit, you still have to make the leap of logic, but I think that's fine. I think there's a final leap, but they've explained every piece. They've done a better job of it for sure than just being like, he saw a bat once, so he's Batman. You get it?

Right. All right, thanks. You know, which is a 1930s comic book way of doing it, which I'm also fine with. Right. He's doing something different and. So then immediately cuts to bearded Bruce Wayne

in a jail. Yes, in Asia. Yes. In, it's actually supposed Yes, in Asia. Yes. In, it's actually supposed to be Bhutan. Okay. The small Tibetan, you know, adjacent kingdom. But it's just your bog standard mystical Asian country, right? And this was like, immediately I was on board with the movie watching it at this point.

Because I was just like, this is such a weird place to introduce us to Bruce Wayne sure like already this movie is throwing you off the hump yeah now

Goyer tries to replicate this exact same script structure for Man of Steel uh Man of Steel oh sure right

where you're cutting back and forth for the first hour childhood origin childhood origin yeah yeah yeah right but the problem with Man of Steel. Oh, sure. Right. Where you're cutting back and forth for the first hour. Childhood, origin. Childhood, origin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. But the problem with Man of Steel is

by picking those two poles, you're missing all the interesting stuff, which is when Clark Kent kind of comes into his power. Let's not talk about Man of Steel. Not going to. But I agree with you. But I'm going to say

what's brilliant about this movie is the childhood stuff gives you the emotional background. Yeah. And then you get the stuff that's leading up to him becoming Batman. And the movie just glosses over the stuff you don't need to see. Agreed. But also the Superman and Batman arcs are just very different.

Very different. Right. I'm saying. Superman's about like a hero who's being given a mantle. Batman, he has to make the mantle for himself. Exactly. So this structure works for Batman because you're seeing everything that happens before he ever becomes Batman. With Superman, to apply that structure to it, you're missing a lot of key steps. Yes.

Also, it's about a man in prison, right, at a low ebb, intentionally low ebb, who is trying to sort of put together, like, why? How did I get here? What do I want to do? Right. And it's like part A. It's like a teen tour gone wrong I mean that's what

happens right part A I'm afraid of bats yeah part B I want to be a ninja yeah

part C my parents died oh my god I love this movie this movie's so goofy it is it's great it's the best combination

of like really like self serious yeah logic and just goofiness I agree so he's in prison.

He's fighting with prisoners. He's just, you know, he just. Taking part. Because, of course, in the movie, this movie leans on this heavily. Like Batman fights criminals, right? Right. Why would someone be so interested in fighting criminals? Yes.

And like isn't the idea like he's in this prison because he enjoys fighting the criminals? Yes. I guess. And the other element I like of it is that, you know, this thing about Batman being this very Republican conservative hero when you really examine his ideals, this is a place where I think this movie deconstructs that

and tries to work around that because this is a Bruce Wayne who actively resents his wealth and his privilege. Sure. and feels like it disconnects him from the actual troubles of the world okay and I think him ending up in this jail is a he wants to fight criminals but be also it's extrapolation of him

just trying to find his place in the world and try to get as far away from his shit as possible as Ducard points out like it is the pulps on common people he's like you're not really a criminal because you could just leave you're rich which is why he becomes Batman because he realizes this is a lie what he's like, you're not really a criminal because you could just leave. You're rich. Which is why he becomes Batman, because he realizes this is a lie, what he's doing right now. There is a way to weaponize his

privilege, and still. You know what I'm saying? Use it for good, rather than try to deny it. Liam Neeson, who had not yet made Taken, but this is the beginning of his road to Taken, in my opinion. Sort of like self-serious gravitas.

I'm going to say something controversial. All right. I'm going to say that. I think Liam Neeson is the worst thing about this movie. Oh my God. I couldn't agree more. I couldn't disagree more. Fair enough.

I know that's not to say that he's bad because I like everything. I love him in this. Yeah. I mean, okay. Maybe I guess Katie Holmes is, is,

I think she's fine. I think she's fine. Exactly. Yeah. I think Neeson is great in the first part. When he comes back, I'm kind of like a little sick of him. I love it.

I love this performance. He's good. So you know who they originally offered the role to? Guy Pearce. Descartes? Yeah. But who else? Gary Oldman.

Oh, sure. And Gary Oldman said, I don't want to play the villain. I've done this too many times. Yes, you're right. You're right. What if you play the good guy? And I mean,

what a great choice that was. Yeah. The minute you see him, you're like, I think he's secretly the best performance in this movie. Everyone's good in the movies. I agree.

But he's really fucking good in this one. Yeah. Anyway. He's great in all of them. Well, he's great in the movies I agree But he's really fucking good in this one Yeah Anyway He's great in all of them Well He's great in the first two Yeah Neeson comes into his jail cell Neeson comes in

And just calls him bullshit Cause you're fucking Bruce Wayne Come on Come on Flips him a bird Says a legend Mr. Wayne Yes Legend Mr. Wayne

Yeah that's where I'm Sometimes I'm like Okay Liam Alright See I love it I love Here's what I like about this performance and this could be the most controversial thing I've ever said

on this show. That's gonna be hard to do, but okay. Ready? Yeah. I like that he's putting too much paprika on the sandwich. Oh, that is controversial. I think Neeson knows exactly what he's doing. That he is in this movie the bridge between the self serious ambitions of the movie and the

pulpier origins of the material. That's fine. I'm into that. It's fine. He's good. I think he's really good. And he's got a really, you know,

here's the thing with Liam Neeson. He's just got a musicality to his voice, right? He's got a great voice. There's a depth of feeling to everything he says, but also a weird rhythm

to how he delivers dialogue, which especially when you're doing these long kind of monologues about philosophy, he just kind of makes this shit sing. It's got a rhythm to it. That's the thing.

I agree. He makes it great, but you can boogie along to it. Sometimes you're like a little sick of his whole like, we burned room to the ground. I was going to say,

that's the line. That's the line where if you lose your faith in the performance, it's it. I was going to say that's the line where if you lose your faith in the performance is it but see I love that line delivery from London to the ground London sorry you took my advice about theatricality a bit literally

okay buddy alright because I would say what obviously what the Dark Knight has going for it is it's got better villains. Of course. Of course.

But this has great villains. And what I like about the movie is it's not really about the film. Right, and I think that's a good argument. So, he comes in, he's like, look, you want to be a real ninja? You can come talk to me. I live on the highest mountain in the Himalayas.

Bring me a blue flower. See you later. Right, and Bruce Wayne's like, can I just follow you there? And he's like, no. You need to give me a head start of like two weeks. So he climbs up the mountains. As I was telling Ben off mic, this was shot in, yeah, great music.

Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard. Which is another thing I like about this movie. Go ahead. Because Hans Zimmer gets very famous for his Dark Knight score and the Batman themes. Hans Zimmer gets very famous for his Dark Knight score and the Batman themes. But this movie has this dialogue between the two composers where Hans Zimmer is kind of doing the Batman music. And James Newton Howard, who I think is a more emotional composer. He's doing the more classic orchestral music. And he's really representing the Bruce Wayne character.

He's fucking with it. He does the emotional stuff. Hans Zimmer does the action stuff the scale stuff and someone tweeted at us I hope you'll talk about the fact that certain tracks on the Batman Begins score sound like Unbreakable Rejects they do that's because James Newton Howard also did the Unbreakable score and it's the same kind of M. Night Shyamalan's guy right

and then in Dark Knight you know Hans Zimmer was like I'm gonna do Joker you do Batman yeah and that's and I love that too because in Dark Knight it's Hans Zimmer. Hans Zimmer, I just like that he messes with himself every time. Yeah.

He, it's, he's good with these scores. Sometimes he can lean on boring shit, but like, he wants to fuck with his music. Nolan pushes him, I think,

in interesting directions. For sure. Okay, so now, Trek, Trek, Trek, and you're getting these gorgeous fucking landscape shots,

and this is where that, that sort of of Christopher Nolan, let's go back to the seventies blockbuster aesthetic. It's like, this movie has like a fucking veracity to it. Like, even if it's about goofy Batman, it's like,

you're seeing these fucking landscapes and these huge, these Vistas and it's just gorgeous details. I mean, he, he's very wise to, you know, do a lot of location shooting. Yeah.

Do real sets. Yeah. Lean away from the 90s aesthetic of these Art Deco kind of made up locations. This is a $175 million movie which was huge at the time.

$150 is what I see. I think it crept up. I remember hearing it was getting to $170. Who knows? But a lot of that is just spent on we're going to fucking fly the whole crew out to the mountains. I think we mentioned on Insomnia, you know, he doesn't do second unit. He does everything himself. Yeah.

Oh, blessed O'Tor, Chris Nolan, we salute you. And here's this montage of him like trekking to find these places and like, it was, it would have been so easy to just green screen a couple shots of Christopher Nolan hiking. Or Christian Bale. You know what I'm saying? No, but you can tell that he's-

No, Christopher Nolan plays Batman in this film. Yes, he does. He plays Richard T. Batman. I'm fucking up my own jokes. You are. I'm so tired today. Why are you so tired? I'm stressed out.

Just take a little nap. No one should make a TV show. Yeah. Bartman. He goes to ninja camp. He gets there. And here is Academy Award nominee Ken Watanabe, who's been set up as the chief villain of this new Batman movie.

He was announced to be playing Ra's al Ghul. Which is already a weird choice to make like, you know, you're rebooting Batman, you're not going with any of the classics, you're going with Scarecrow and Ra's al Ghul is the primary antagonist. But I really do think that was partly the studio being like, you can't

do Joker, you can't do Catwoman because they've been done too recently and I really do think it's funny that that's how they thought because obviously now it's like, what? Do Joker. This was very much still that culture where like if someone's been done, you can't do it again. Not for a while. As opposed to Fox like now threatening to make Fantastic Four for the third time. Yeah, sure.

Go ahead. Yeah, it is. Ra's al Ghul is usually like Egyptian. He's Middle Eastern. Yeah, it's. Ra's al Ghul is usually like Egyptian. He's Middle Eastern. Yeah, it's always kind of vague. Well, when he was, you know, he was basically like a Fu Manchu villain back when he was created. And he's been sort of obviously, like many a comic book villain, you know, sort of toned down. Slightly awoker.

But he's like a mastermind, a criminal mastermind who's the head of the League of Shadows, but also he's like a practitioner of the dark arts. Right. His big thing is he's got these Lazarus pits where he can constantly bring himself back to life, so he's immortal. And I remember everyone being like-

He's the closest to Lex Luthor that Batman has in his rogues gallery because he's definitely often behind the scenes, pulling the strings right well and then the other big element which we'll get to a couple episodes from now his daughter Talia Batman's you know one of his squeezes

he wants to give her the day he wants to give her the dark night I don't want to talk to you anymore Tumblr he barely knows her you got me back alright okay he goes to ninja camp yes

Ken Watanabe who had indeed was a legend of Japanese cinema who had just been nominated for The Last Samurai which he's great in a bad movie that he's great in

he's always great yeah he's great honestly this is maybe his worst performance in an American film because he doesn't have much to do he has very much to do.

He has very little to do. And I love that Nolan really does repay him with his role in Inception, which is my favorite thing about Inception. We can talk about it on the Inception episode. A favor. A promise between two friends. We're going to talk all about it. Yeah.

But he's kind of a MacGuffin. He's a misdirect in this movie. And you have him. Spoiler alert. Liam Neeson is the real Rosigal. Right. I revealed this spoiler. You have him. Finger.

Ben just got actively annoyed. Go ahead. I sit next to Ben now so I can see him mark things on the console. Brom. Swear to me. Fuck. Do I look like a cop? Swear to me Fuck

Do I look like a cop? I love saying it So he has Ken Watanabe dressed up In this sort of like You know more grounded version Of a Ra's al Ghul costume But it's still ninja camp Let's be clear But that's the point this sort of like, you know, more grounded version of a Ra's al Ghul costume, which he's red robes.

But it's still Ninja Camp, let's be clear. But he's looking, yes, but that's the point. He's looking a little more comical. Sitting in a throne. Liam Neeson's just wearing a suit. Yeah, Liam Neeson's like, right, his like, antagonistic mentor character. His like, chief operating officer,

where he's like, welcome to Ninja Camp. And Ra's al Ghul isn't talking at all. He's just sitting in a throne. Once in a while, he sort of talks in Japanese for a second. Right. And then throws his cape over his shoulder and walks away. See you later.

And Ducard is just like, Hey, welcome. Now guess what? I'm going to fucking kick your ass. I'm going to kick you. Death does not wait for you or whatever. He's got,

he yells at him. Yes. And then it's like, uh, you want to, you want to be a Batman? I'll help you. Right. So he, and this's like you wanna be a Batman I'll help ya right and this is

Nolan likes especially in these movies especially starting with this movie to like make everything come back later

like everything Batman learns at ninja camp is referenced one more time if not two more times he's a puzzle filmmaker even when he stops

making films we talked a lot about it with Amy Nicholson in the Memento episode where it's like he loves, and I feel like audiences love to be like, oh, I see the line. And that's the thing. He makes people feel smart because he doesn't say it. He shows it. He shows it very clearly. Exactly.

But you give yourself credit for putting the pieces together. So when there's sword fighting on the ice and you see the sword get caught in his gauntlets and you go like oh that's why batman's arms are designed that weird way because he was like oh that's a cool ninja thing and then the whole thing with like deception and theatricality and all of that and i'm just like jizzing in my seat as like a 15 year old 16 year old i was like this is the best theatricality deception and then powerful tools and then more powerful weapons more than anything there's this idea of I was like, this is the best theatricality and deception. Powerful tools. Powerful weapons. More than anything, there's this idea of fear as something that you conquer and then something that you can use against people to be scary. Because, like, I think it's something that had basically been forgotten probably in all of the Burton movies.

Maybe a little bit in the first Batman it's there. But, like, Batman. He just becomes a detective who wears a bat costume for some reason. That's the thing. It's like the whole point of him dressing up as a bat is to frighten people. Like he's supposed to be this like specter who like, you know, haunts criminals at night. Like the whole idea of Batman is you're afraid to do crime at night because like the Batman will be there. I think Burton rationalizes it by taking this angle of he's just a guy losing his mind.

Then that's great. Like it's a disassociative thing. That's a great angle. He just doesn't know what is going on in this suit is the only thing that keeps him sane. It's like a security blanket. For sure. But then you get to Schumacher and it doesn't mean anything.

The costume doesn't mean anything. I mean, that's what I love about Batman and Robin. Like I said, where it's like, oh, we're opening the new opera house. Batman, do come by. We're going to have an auction. Go on a date with Batman or whatever. I mean, it's just the best.

I really would love it if it was a scene where Batman's just talking to the planning commissioner about something boring. Alfred, I'm going to the bodega. Get me my costume. But, Master Wayne, you don't need to get me my costume. Well, I mean, Batman Forever starts with that line where he's like, Shall I make a sandwich, sir? And he's like, shall I make a sandwich? He's like, I'll get drive-thru. It's a great line.

That's like the line at the start of the movie. Yeah, the car. Chicks dig the car. I hate Batman Forever. David likes it. I like both Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. I think Batman and Robin is interesting. I think Batman Forever is boring.

When's the last time you watched it? I find that so crazy. I watched it like six months ago and we fought about this. You're so crazy. It's so good. It's a dumb movie for dumb people. Yeah, it's real dumb. It's a dumb ass movie.

Breaking news. I think Batman and Robin is at least dumb fun. I think Batman Forever is boring dumb. I think Batman Forever is more fun. I think Batman and Robin is honestly tough to watch. It's more fun in that kind of like, I can't believe it,

like every time way. Because the action in Batman and Robin is like so, it's so bad. Partly because one of the villains is wearing a 140 pound

metal suit. Hey, hey, hey, David. Chill out. And the other one's a lady who can't like, you know, who just sort of like walks around like this. Hey, hey, David, chill out. So, and the other one's a lady who can't like, you know, just sort of like walks around like this. Hey,

hey, David, find out. So he's now fully in the Descartes school of being a crazy magician fighter. It's true. He's like graduation exam is like, take some fear drugs. And then like,

we're all going to get in line and attack you. It's how well can you hold your shit? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Take this bong hip and then open the chest of, of pain and fear. I love the shit with them fighting on the ice.

And it does feel like Ducard's becoming this weird father figure for him, even though it's obviously very different than how his father was. And then we should say of course you're cutting between these sequences and the flashbacks to Batman's father Thomas Wayne

played wonderfully by Linus Roach and I was saying to Joanna while we were watching it like this is the only movie that makes him a character that makes any effort to make either of his parents

a character. This movie doesn't make any effort with his mother unfortunately. Thomas does. And it's so funny because, like, you know, in the Burton Batman, the death of his father is this very, like, theatrical thing,

but that's partly because they're tying the Joker into it, right? Yeah. In the Snyder Batman, the death is like this, I think we talked about it, you know, quasi-pornographic scene where Jeffrey Dean Morgan's got like a push broom mustache and he like shoots Martha while the pearls are like, you know, it's this like execution murder. And for DX, there's a ripple in the seat every time he gets shot. And in this movie, I think the murder scene is so so so well done. Really upsetting.

Genuinely upsetting. It's very upsetting. It doesn't just feel like checking it off the list. It's a total accident. It's just like a bullshit nothing scene which is what it's kind of supposed to be. You know the original idea is just this poor criminal Joe Chill looking for some money. Right and I love the way that Thomas Wayne is characterized in this

movie. I mean they kind of he talks about his father. The idea is he's this like, it's sort of like he's a benevolent billionaire who's trying to help the city. He's almost like a Bill Gates figure if Bill Gates was third generation old money. But you get this idea that like, you know, even though he means well,

it is sort of a half-hearted thing. It's not going to do it all by itself because you have to believe that Batman thinks like it wasn't enough, right? To just like build some infrastructure. He was doing it all by itself. Because you have to believe that Batman thinks it wasn't enough. He was doing it all from the ivory tower. He wasn't getting his hands dirty. And that's what Bruce sees. But I think Lass Rush does a really good job playing the most difficult thing,

which is just a good, simple person. It's very hard to play an unconflicted person. I agree. No, I think he does a terrific job. Love Linus. And I love the way the city is visualized. It's obviously based on Chicago here. Yeah.

Yeah, the city's visualized really well. Yeah, I mean, I love Linus van Pelt, but he's a fucking nerd. He's a nerd. But that's another challenge is, you know, you've already had Anton First's iconic Gotham. This Art Deco expressionist. Exactly. And then you have like the cartoon does that too, uh you know you've already had anton first's iconic gotham this art deco expression exactly

and you have like the cartoon does that too sort of dials that up and schumacher's dialing that up like you know can you do gotham again he's adding more purple yeah every building is on the back of a giant statue yeah right and holding it up they each have their own designated spotlight with a different gel a different color gel directly in front of that building. Now that you point it out, it's sort of vaporwave. It is very. Come on, it's 90s as shit. I mean, like, this is one thing I love about Batman Forever.

The gangs that, like, are entirely in neon and, like, somehow they all have, like, black lights on them at all times. Yo, yo, yo, but wait a second. What if Batman vaped? He will. Mark my words. I mean, Ben Affleck vapes? There is no question.

When do they finally just decide, like, let's merge them? Okay, on the record, let's make a bet that Batman vapes in Justice League. What are the odds you're saying? Or are we just declaring it's going to happen? What are the odds? Or declaring it's going to happen? I'm going to declare it. I'm going to go Griffey on the record.

I have a question, though. Yeah. Is it that it's going to be branded, like a sponsored thing, or is it going to be the bat vape? I think it's going to be neither. I think it's going to be generic vape technology, but the idea is just, oh, it's a character detail. A bat vape?

Yeah. All right. Okay. Anyway, so he learns to be a ninja. He graduates from ninja school. I'm just moving us along. There's the scene I love five hours in.

About an hour. Yeah. There's the scene I love on the ice after they fought. Yeah, you kept talking about the ice when he kicks him into the...

No, but when he's warming up afterwards and Liam Neeson talks about his classic Christopher Nolan dead wife. Yeah, he's like, I had a wife once. My great love. Yeah.

She was taken from me. And you see, he's explaining why he hates criminals so much. The flip side of the coin. This is a guy who had his love taken from him in his life.

He has a very specific set of skills. Right. Thank you, man. Skills that make him a nightmare for Batman like Batman. He is the opposite side of the coin. He is a man

who became focused on anger and vengeance. And Batman is trying to prevent these things from happening again. I agree. Picard is trying to make them happen again. Right, because of course the final test in his graduation is, here's a thief who murdered someone, some local schmo. You got to chop his head off. Here's a sword. He's like, you should experience you know, local schmo. You gotta chop his head off, here's a sword.

He's like, you should, you should be under, you should experience a trial, a fair trial. And he goes, corrupt judges, lawyers.

Yeah, he's like, we burned London to the ground. Burned London to the ground. I am a thousand years old. And, yeah, Liam Neeson's just like,

yeah, you know, right, bureaucracy, this is all shit. Right. Like, we are the ultimate judges. We know better.

So time for you to kill this guy. Batman sets it all on fire. He burns his ninja hut down. He burns London to the ground. He does. And he leaves Ra's al Ghul for dead. He does. Oh, he also briefly fights Ken Watanabe. They have like a 30-second sword fight.

Which they used all 30 of those seconds in the trailer to make it seem like this movie is him fighting Ken Watanabe. They have like a 30 second sword fight. Which they used all 30 of those seconds in the trailer to make it seem like this movie is him fighting Ken Watanabe. And then Ken Watanabe is killed by a falling beam! Oh no! Perfectly placed. Watch out for the beam, immortal crime legend. You get the one close up of the blood coming out of the side of his mouth so you know

he's dead and the movie never has to think about him ever again. Right. Look out, a beam! He saves Ducard from falling over. Swear to beam! Fuck you, beam! He saves Ducard from falling off a

cliff. Yeah. Leaves him passed out. Yeah, he does him a real solid. Burns his house down, kills all his friends, leaves him on the side of a mountain. Thanks, Bruce. Real cool. Then he calls up Alfred, his butler, who all his friends, leaves him on the side of a mountain. Thanks, Bruce. Real cool. Then he calls up Alfred, his butler, who we've already met. Let's just say the other stuff we've seen up until this point

is, you know, he goes back home from college. No, but we also seen the scene right after his parents are dead when Alfred hugs him. So did I, Mr. Wayne. He's done this great... So, Alfred been played by Michael Goff in the first four movies where he is a stereotypical English butler guy. I love Michael Goff.

Right. But he was playing very much the archetypal butler character. Yes. And in this movie, Christopher Nolan said, what if we hire the greatest screen actor of all time? Well, I mean, right. This was part of Batman Begins marketing for sure. It's like Nolan, you know, and like the billing is like all the actors above the title. Not like Christian Bale, Batman Begins.

Right. You know, he's assembled a big eight actors. Right. And he got Kane, Neeson, Katie Holmes, Gary Oldman, Morgan Freeman. Morgan Freeman being the fucking weapons guy. Right. It's like, that's what I was like. The bench on this movie is so fucking deep.

He gets the and. Yeah. Freeman, he gets his and. Well, I want to play the credit game with you. Okay, sure, exactly. That's why I was like, the bench on this movie is so fucking deep. He gets the and. Yeah. Freeman, he gets his and. Well, I want to play the credit game with you. Okay, sure. Yeah. But, the billing game, rather.

Billing game. But there's the moment when you are first introduced to Alfred and they do a loving close-up. The camera pushes in as the waves walk past and it lands on Alfred. A cockney,

lovely cockney gentleman. And now it's Michael Caine and the score swells and the movie's just going like we know we got a real... Never. We got a powerhouse here. We got Michael Caine playing Alfred. This movie's going the next fucking level. I mean, we've all seen the trip, right? You know, come on. He's the best in these movies. But Alfred, this is the first time that Alfred in a movie

is a real fucking character. Yes, although Batman and Robin has... He's the linchpin like this is the first time that Alfred in a movie is like a real fucking character. Uh, yes. Although Batman and Robin has, he's the linchpin of Batman and Robin's plot. Right. He's not sick. He's dying. He has a McGregor's disease or whatever it's called.

Yeah. You and McGregor infects him. He has sex with you and McGregor and he gets the deadly McGregor virus. I know. Um, so yeah, we've got that. And then we,

yeah, we have grown up Bruce. Comes back home from college. Right, like college Bruce. He's snotty. Wayne Manor is all covered in drapes. His hair's all like down and flat.

They do a really good job. They do. They make him look like a little close. His clothes don't fit him really well. He meets up again with Katie Holmes. No, but yeah, he sees Alfred and he's like,

Wayne Manor sucks. And Alfred's like, well, I'm, you know, watching out for it. You know, he meets up with Katie Holmes,

who's like, is she already an assistant DA or? No, I think she's for it. He meets up with Katie Holmes, who's like, is she already an assistant DA? No, I think she's still living there. I think she's in college. Whatever. They're both in college. She's still in Gotham, though. They go to the Joe Chill. Is that happening then?

Correct. And Bruce Wayne's plan is, I'm going to shoot Joe Chill at the hearing. The murder of his parents. So Bruce Wayne has this right. He's only come back home for the hearing. He's up for a fucking release. No, he's being released because he's testifying against Carmine Falcone, the head of the mob. Snitching.

And so Bruce goes, yes, his plan is I will shoot this man because that's Bruce's conception right now of fighting crime. It's like, what if I kill the guy who shot my parents? Won't that make me feel better yeah and instead the mob shoots Joe Chill before he even gets a chance Bruce is there with the gun he's ready to do it and then he tells Katie Holmes he was gonna do it and she gives him a slap in the face

and is this the point where she gives him a tour of the Narrows yeah because I love the Narrows the Narrows so it's like the conception of Gotham is like Chicago, but with Crime Island in the middle of it. Which is amazing. And it's like this old, weird, shanty town.

That's just all brown and poop-colored and gross. Yeah. And Prince Joffrey lives there. Yes. Baby Joff. And the monorail goes through there, but I guess it's bad. It express stops. It goes through very quickly. It's looking over its shoulder a lot

as it's steering through. And Katie Holmes is like this is real Gotham. I'm committing my life to fighting for this kind of shit. Katie Holmes is like I want to rebuild this through the law. This was your father's idea and it's crumbled. Rachel Dawes which I believe she did. It was just an invented character for these movies right? I believe so. Yeah there's not like a Rachel Dawes in the comics. I don't think so. They might have

put one in later. He reveals the thing about the gun. She Rachel Dawes in the comics. I don't think so. They might have put one in later. He reveals the thing about the gun. She slaps him in the face. She's mad at him. She drops him off. She goes, look, this is where all the fat cats hang out. And he goes into the bar and it's Falcone. It's the judge. It's these gross cops. It's everybody. And he tries to face Falcone. And Falcone

is like, you're some rich kid. You're the son of Bruce Wayne. You'd have to go 100,000 miles to find someone who doesn't know your face. Which gives him the idea. You got to go to the Himalayas. We got to talk about this scene. Because I knew that Tom Wilkinson had been cast to play Carmine Falcone. Isn't even above the title.

He's not. No, he's not. Because it's not like a huge role. But he's an Academy Award nominee. He is. For a great performance in In the Bedroom. And later nominated again for Michael Clayton. Right.

And I knew the comics well enough. And I loved the long Halloween, which Carmine Falcone's a big part of. He's the principal kind of antagonist, really. And I know that Carmine Falcone is supposed to be a, you know, Don Corleone-esque. Yes. And so I remember even in 2005 being like, Tom Wilkinson,

that is bizarre. Why did they cast like Gandolfini or Danny Aiello or some very obvious, yeah. And that scene where he sits down in the bar and Falcone's basically like, has like Gandolfini or Danny Aiello or some very obvious. And that scene where he sits down in the bar and Falcone's basically like you're a snotty rich kid points the gun at him

and says like You don't know. You're always afraid of what you don't understand. Great. Amazing. He's fantastic in this movie. I love every scene of his.

I love that scene. I love the I'm Batman scene and I love the scene where Scarecrow fucks with him where he's like, doc, doc, I can't take it. I'm going crazy. Blah, blah, blah. He's such an underrated actor. I agree.

Love you, Tom. I was going to say he should have won for Michael Clayton, but that was one of the fiercest, best supporting actor categories in a long time. Who won that year? Pardem. You also have Hal Holbrook. An unbeatable performance. Holbrook's great. But I mean, look, he's got those baguettes.

He's got those baguettes. That's the baguettiest performance of all time. I know. But he had his baguettes here. No, no, he had some ciabatta. Ciabatta. No, all right. So, right.

So after this rude awakening to Gotham's crime and the complexity of fighting a criminal enterprise. He gives his coat to a homeless man. He gives his coat to a homeless man played by, I can't say his name, but he's Rod A. Rod Sherbega. Sherbega. He's the main villain in Taken 2. Love him. Is he Serbian?

I want to get that right. I think so. He's a Croatian actor. Okay, never mind. I'm sorry. And's a Croatian actor. Okay, never mind. I'm sorry. And then he boards a boat. Boards a boat, goes off to a crime continent.

And now the two timelines are kind of converted. There's one moment I do want to spotlight that we move past, which is after Tom and Martha Wayne are shot, you know, and Thomas Wayne's trying to just crisis management the situation, but it gets out of hand.

And in panic, Joe Chill shoots them. Sure. Right. Then he goes to the police station and Gary Oldman is the kindly cop. Who's there?

Sergeant what the fuck's his name? Jim Gordon. Jesus. And he's the one guy who's kind of dealing with this kid in a human level and there's a moment I love

where the chief of police I guess comes in. The commissioner. Right. The commissioner. Played by Colin McFarlane, who is like,

I think he's an English actor who I mostly know from like sitcoms and stuff. Oh, really? And he usually talks like this. Yeah. And it's really funny because obviously he's cast

just because they were shooting in England, right? Right. I don't know if like Nolan knew him or anything. Yeah. But it's just, he's odd in these. He's in The Dark Knight as well. He's weird. Yeah. But it's just, he's, he's odd in these,

he's in the dark night as well. He's weird. He's got that really forced, odd American accent. Yeah. But yeah, he's there and he's like, we got him.

Right. That's the moment I love is he goes, son, we got good news for you. And Bruce Wayne looks up and then he goes, we got him. We found the guy. And it's a great moment of like,

it's, it's a small little thing, but that if you're a kid and your parents have just been murdered and someone walks in and says, we got good news for you. Sure. You're expecting they're gonna say your parents aren't dead. We found a Lazarus pit. Right. But instead it's like, we caught the guy.

And it's like, that's not fucking mean anything. Right. And it's this whole journey of the movie of him trying to figure out what is the kind of revenge that is satisfying, you know? Right. It's not getting revenge. It's preventing these things from happening in the first place. Yes. Okay, so now the two timelines have converged. He comes back.

Alfred picks him up in the private jet. Makes a bunch of great jokes. Makes some great jokes about you can have the roles if you want. Right, because he had declared Bruce dead. No, no, no. Rucker Howard declared him dead. Oh, yes. Rucker Howard, the first of so many reclamation projects for Christopher Nolan. Yeah.

You've got Berenger, Eric Roberts. I think we talked about this. Matthew Modine. Who else? God, there's an obvious one that I'm forgetting. Inception. Not Inception. Inception is Berenger.

Right, right. I was gonna say, Interstellar doesn't really have one. It's got a couple partial, like John Lithgow isn't quite a redemption guy. No, no. Who are you going to? Oh, Top oh topher grace yes but you know wes bentley correct correct it's just weird because usually his redemption projects are guys who peaked in the 80s i know yeah for sure uh but this is definitely uh one of his 80s redemption project yeah is uh rucker howard is william earl the new ceo of wayne enterprise and he's always said that Blade Runner was his favorite movie of all time, and that's his kind of Blade Runner tip of the hat. William Earl, who sucks.

He's bad. He's a shitty CEO. Right. You know who should be CEO? Lucius Fox. Okay, this guy rules. Played by Morgan Freeman. So, Bruce Wayne shows up. Shows up at Wayne Enterprises and he's just like, I'm back, baby. And William Earl's like, nice to see you. We're going

public, so I guess that'll make you even richer than before. But we're kind of just doing our thing here. Nice to see you. And he's like, what about applied sciences? He's like, Lucius? Okay, he's down in the basement where no one sees what he's up to. And immediately Lucius Fox

is like, I don't know, I got like this bat suit, I got a bat mobile I got a bunch of shit I sort of been like we were gonna make all these Batman but this is just like how Tony this movie is like they could have cast fucking anyone to deliver this shit but he was like no why not hire

one of the best actors alive to explain the technology coming off an Oscar win or I mean the year before he wins his Oscar for Million Dollar Baby. Maybe he had already... It's like you got Morgan Freeman batting clean up in this movie. He's great.

He's great, isn't he? He's great. He rules in this. Lucius Fox is the best fucking guy. That's the thing. He has to deliver these lines where he's like, oh, what, this old cloth? Well, you put an electric current through it. It turns into... If someone does that wrong, you're like, the fuck? old cloth? Well, you put an electric current through it, it turns into, and it's like, if someone does that wrong, you're like, the fuck, electric cloth?

What the fuck are you talking about? That's not a thing. This is a movie full of, a cast full of actors who have such supreme control over tone. Sure. And know exactly where to pitch stuff. Yep. Wilkinson, Cillian Murphy, Oldman, yeah. Right, because they're all going a little big, but still being sort of grounded, behavioral,

with a little bit of tongue in cheek. Just a little bit of tongue in that cheek. David, for the listener at home, has put a little bit of tongue in his cheek. A little saucy tongue. Okay, so now everything's converged. We're in the present day. And Bruce Wayne has explained to Alfred on the plane,

I've got to become something bigger. I've got to Alfred on the plane I gotta become something bigger I gotta become a symbol I gotta strike fear into the hearts of everything that's wrong in Gartham in Gartham so he becomes the Bartman no so with Lucius he starts

another thing he does is he goes into the caves below Wayne Manor he confronts his own fear finds a bunch of bats. And a waterfall. This is my thing. Oh, here comes Ben. He's roaring in.

In the Ben-mobile. All right. So, yeah, he's afraid of bats. It's this representation of his fear that he wants to instill in his enemies. Right, and it's of the moment his parents died, right? Right, there's a lot of symbolism there. But I had this thought, technically afraid of the opera?

Look, Ben's not wrong. That's the scariest thing to him. He's afraid of the opera. He was at a performance of Don Giovanni. Yeah. I had something that looked like bat ears. No, it's the people are tumbling down in black. No, but also there's that great moment.

Oh, yeah, right, right. With the silhouette of the guy, the horns on his head. But listen, you can't call him Opera Man. What if you could? Adam Sandler already had the opera. What if he was the Phantom of the Opera? Adam Sandler already had the copy. You're right.

Okay. I was just going to say, though, there's potential for maybe a villain called Opera Man. Okay. Would he be wet? Would it be. Okay. Would he be wet? Would it be Sandler? Would he be big? Yes. I mean, what was your Batman character?

Batman murderer. Batman murderer. Remember during the Star Wars days, you had like the Jedi that was like a man bat? Yeah, Bat Pecky. Bat Pecky, right. That was it. Yes, yes.

Thank you. Yeah, yeah-Peki. Bat-Peki, right. That was it. Yes, yes, thank you. Yeah, yeah. He's a Batman. Yeah, I would love to see an opera man. Well, let's be clear. I mean, the opera killed Bruce Wayne's parents. It did. It's the damn opera.

Yeah. Because usually it's Zorro. Yes. Like, that's the comic book thing was he was seeing Zorro at the theater. And then a fucking Batman versus Superman and it's Empire Strikes Back. Isn't it? No, no. Or it's Zorro. Like, that's the comic book thing, was he was seeing Zorro at the theater. And then in fucking Batman v Superman, it's Empire Strikes Back. No, no. Or it's Excalibur.

It's like Excalibur or Sorcerer. They said it in the 80s. I think it's Excalibur. The Borman picture, I think. Yeah, I believe it's Excalibur. Yeah, you're right. But yeah, anyway, because it's the 80s now or whatever, you know. Times have changed.

Yeah, but now it becomes the opera. It's the opera. It'd be great if he put on a Harlequin mask and he sort of flounced around as opera man. Once again, they wanted to, but Sandler had the copyright. He had a candelabra. He forced crime. He plays the music of the night.

That's the joke I was trying to make. He comes in on a boat. I was going to say he forces crime to listen to the music of the night. Wouldn't it be great if he rode around on a gondola? Yeah. That would be great. A bat gondola. Or a chandelier.

They do both live in caves and catacombs. That's what I'm saying. It's a distant cousin. Jared Butler could have played Batman. There's a world where Jared Butler is up for Batman. 100%. Like if it happens at the right time. If it happens two years later, yeah.

Boy, I'm excited. There was a rumor that Warner Brothers wanted Gerard for the Snyderverse too, which makes sense. Or that Snyder wanted Gerard for the Warner Brothers. It does make sense. I think he's, yeah, no, it does. But anyway, so he starts working on this Batman

and I like all these pieces okay how am I gonna be able to listen to you we need to design fucking antenna in the ears sure

the gauntlets we'll buy 10,000 of this piece and then 20,000 of this piece and put it together I like all this shoe leather I do too

I get really jazzed watching this part of the movie. But then you have the most important moment where he's carving a batarang, right? And Bruce, Alfred's like,

what the fuck is going on here? What bats, monster? And he's like, bats frighten me. Okay, so we're at like the 50 minute mark and you're like,

Batman's still really taking his time to get it. Yeah, I mean, again, I kept checking the time while I was watching and it's like, still no Batman. And he puts the suit on, but oh, it's not finished yet.

Doesn't have a symbol. Ski mask instead of the gauntlet mask. Oh, right, because he has his first thing where he's kind of crashing around the narrows, and he's kind of crappy at it. And he's got this kind of harness on, and he tries to question people, talks to Jim Gordon, establishes that bond.

Yeah. But then he tries to jump off a building and hits a bunch of fire skates. Yeah, I know, tries to question people, talks to Jim Gordon, establishes that bond. Yeah. But then he tries to jump off a building and hits a bunch of fire skates. Yeah. I think, yeah. So his idea is like, okay, if we, there's a corrupt judge. Yeah. If we can get the judge on our side. We can actually force these people.

And we can get a DA, Rachel Dawes. Right. We need one honest cop, Jim Gordon. Right. We need one honest cop, Jim Gordon. Get Jim Gordon the cop, and then we can prosecute Carmine. Who is bringing in some sort of substance in his drug deals, which are being helped along by Dr. Henry Crane, who is Henry? Yeah, right? Yeah.

Jonathan Crane, sorry. Jonathan Crane. Played by Cillian Murphy, who's like a a psychologist was also someone who came very close to playing Batman yes he auditioned Nolan said he was like maybe 2 or 3 Nolan loves Cillian Murphy and he's in all 3 of the Batman movies which I've always appreciated but he's just

a little weirder looking than Bale so Nolan's like how about Scarecrow my mom's whole theory on Cillian Murphy is that he's too pretty to actually work as a leading man. He's quite pretty. He's got that, like, sort of gaunt prettiness with the high cheekbones. Right, and he kind of only works

if you make him creepy or haunted. Right. Because of that. So that's that. Yeah, so now all the pieces are in place. And then there's a drug deal going down. And now the costume is finished he goes to Lucius Fox he says I need something to make me fly

yeah at first Lucius is like sure I'll make it and then Lucius is like I know you're doing something and he goes just don't think I'm a fool Mr. Wayne and so he makes his back costume and now it's awesome sure he looks great it's a nice costume right

it's great and I love that it's still a little goofy and unwieldy. I love that he still can't totally move properly in it. Yeah. Because like Dark Knight, they make the segment thing, they make it a lot more practical

in terms of actually having an actor move. I like in this. But in the Dark Knight, they literally have him redesign it on screen. Yeah. Right.

I just like in this that it's a little unwieldy. But you know, there was this whole obsessive thing in the fan base of like, the costume little unwieldy but you know there was this whole obsessive thing in the fan base of like the costume can't have nipples like there was like this like push back to Schumacher's

idea of like Batman as like a Greek statue yes you know with this sort of like ridiculous molded plastic right and then this his suit's very tactical looking and then he's modified it with bats so cool I love it I'm a nerd who loves realism. Twisted.

So, yeah, at the hour mark, he goes to the docks. These cops are coming around. You know, it's set up like a horror movie sequence. I mean, it's like something weird's going on. I'm sitting there pulling blood in my hands, and I'm waiting. And then suddenly guys start disappearing. They're being pulled up into the sky. And then you have that great shot where the guy's like, where are you?

And he just backs into Batman who's like hanging upside down. And he's like, here. It's great. Love that. And the guy runs away screaming. And it's annoying because he was trying to initiate like a Tobe Maguire, Kirsten Dunst kiss. He was? That's why Batman was upside down.

Here I am. Hey, another thing that I feel like doesn't get... Kiss me! I feel like something that doesn't get talked about enough is Batman's good with ropes. Very good with ropes. He's like, I don't know how to tie knots and make ropes happen. Why else do you think Armie Hammer was considered to play Batman? I'm just going to let that drop. Top rope heroes. Number one, Slipknot from Suicide Squad.

Loves his ropes. Number one, Slipknot from Suicide Squad. Loves his ropes. Number two, Armie Hammer. Yes. The real hero of ropes. Do you know about this? If not, Google Armie Hammer ropes and have a blast. Okay. Have a great time.

Anytime my friends say Armie Hammer, I just go ropes. Hey, you don't even have to Google it. Go on to Armie Hammer's twitter account And look at his likes His faves He doesn't apparently know that they're public That's enough about Armie Hammer Who was literally going to play Batman in George Miller's Justice League Justice League Mortal

Why do all movies have dumb subtitles Justice League Mortal Justice League Forbidden Kingdom Justice League Dead Justice League Forbidden Kingdom Justice League Dead Men Tell No Tales Salazar's Revenge Hola Batman We're having fun here

This is weirdly the punchiest episode We've done in a while For Batman Begins Yeah this is sort of like A Lincoln-esque episode Where we're quite punchy But in a good way. I hope so. I hope it's a good way. So,

Batman has now begun. And he immediately tracks down Rachel Dawes at the subway. She's the above-ground train system. She gets off because some guys are trailing her. And there's Batman standing. Right, because Falcone's arranged a hit on her. Right. This is a scene I missed because

I was cleaning up blood from my face originally. But he kind of reaches out to her. He's building his base. He's going, look, there's a new kid in town. His name is Bartman. And crime's gonna pay. You with me or against me?

So, and then you've got, come on, the narrow scene. He finally, one hour and five minutes into the movie, which is just about halfway in. Yeah.

He, Wilkinson, Falcone's like, who are you? And he grabs him out of the sunroof and goes, I'm Batman. And then he turns and Rod Shurbega is still there at the same spot he's been for ten years and he goes nice coat, nice coat. And then the kiddie who we've seen happens.

Right, that's after. Because now we have seen him in suit he's begun he has begun there's the shot Nolan does the shot of him standing on top of the skyscraper

iconic the helicopter shot very nice shot yeah which I think he tops in the dark night with a shot of him in the wreckage

that great shot of him yeah post explosion where he's standing in the wreckage it's a great shot but anyway yeah nice hero shots. I think he must have been drawing

a little inspiration from the 90s animated movies and series, right? I think so. There's just a little of that vibe. There's an iconography. And back in the day, that was the hacky thing you would say about Batman was like, but the real one is Mask of the Phantasm. I'm a real Batman fan

because I think that's the closest to real Batman. That movie does rule. It's a great movie. I just, it just became so hacky to be like, insert animated thing here is the closest to the comic books. Agreed. And also, it's tough to talk about, like, it's kind of stupid

to compare Mask of Phantasm because Mask of Phantasm is the one Batman movie that doesn't have to worry with being a self-contained narrative in any sense. Yeah. Like, it's a continuation of the animated series, so it doesn't have to do any world building. Yeah. It doesn't have to cross these things off the checklist. You know, it's just like, here's a cinematic episode.

Agreed. It's a great movie, but it's like, it doesn't work without the series. Agreed. Yeah. Agreed. Anyway. So, Batman's on the prowl. Yeah. So, then there's like Batman's on the prowl. Yeah.

So then there's like 15 minutes of Batman just like going to bars, hanging out, being like, Hey everybody, I'm Batman. Just want you to know. It goes to some society event. He's on the prowl.

Um, uh, but he comes home and now like Alfred starts working on the other angle. He's like, look, you got to build up a kind of public reputation. I mean, it's going to be weird.

Bruce Wayne's back. You're in the news because people thought you were dead. You're just going out and base jumping all the time. Right, and you have all these mysterious injuries. And I love this. And he's like, you got to pretend you're a billionaire playboy. Yeah, he's like, you know, you're supposed to buy things you don't own. Stop pretending to have a little fun.

I'm going to have a little fun. What happened? Did someone punch him in the mouth? Was that the work of the Joker? Please, Richard C. Joker. We use full names on this show. Oh, boy. So now he goes out, and he's got three models under each arm,

and he's pulling up in a cool car, and he's at a hotel. three models under each arm and he's pulling up in a cool car and he's at a hotel and uh the the woman from uh from following is one of the women going like this batman showing up fighting oh that's right i forgot about that right he's definitely already introducing which will become a little more of a thing i guess in the dark knight that idea of like some people are like well i think vigilantism is wrong. And other people are like, but he's saving the city of Gotham. Right. And Christian Bale goes,

I mean, clearly the guy's drained. The guy's got issues. Bruce Wayne. This is where I think Bale's performance becomes great because now he's playing like four different characters. I think he does a great job being Bruce Wayne, especially in this one as, yeah, as like an aloof idiot playboy.

I've always argued that he's the best Bruce Wayne we've ever had. I mean, I don't disagree with you, but I also think that's because none of the other movies put any effort into Bruce Wayne. Even the Burton, Keaton ones, Burton's take is like, this guy just wants to put on that suit and run around again. He hates being Bruce Wayne. Val Kilmer

is fine. He's just kind of asleep. And then Clooney is really just playing it like he's Clooney. He's like a movie star. And he's dating Elle Macpherson. There's no characterization. And the subplot in Batman and Robin is like, will he ask Elle Macpherson to settle down with him?

Yeah. Because the idea of that movie is almost like, it's time for Batman to start a family. Right, which is what Lego Batman does properly. Well, Lego Batman's got a great Bruce Wayne. Yeah, the best. Oh, you're saying it beats Bale. No, no. I think Lego Batman has a better Batman.

Would you say that Will Arnett is the third best Batman? Or is Kevin Conroy ahead of him? Yeah, I mean, Keaton's number one, right? No, I prefer Bale. I know Keaton's your guy, though. Keaton's my guy. Yeah. I think Keaton's a better Batman. I think Bale's a better Bruce Wayne.

I think Keaton worked that suit better than anyone. Yeah, they're both great. I mean, we'll talk about In the Dark Knight. Yeah, I think Will Arnett's top three, though. I just can't settle on where in the three he is. Anyway. Anyway. He's fighting crime. He's fighting crime. on where in the three he is. Anyway. Anyway.

He's fighting crime. He's fighting crime. He's going out. He's taking names. Working in the narrows. People are starting to talk about him. There's that great little moment. Ben was just punching the air. He mimed punching. Little punches. Yeah, because, you know, the beef on Nolan is he's a bad action director, especially back then. People used to say that a lot.

Hand-to-hand combat in this movie is sweaty. It's sweaty, but he mostly just doesn't do a lot of it. Exactly. And he's good with vehicles. He's good in action sequences when it's a large swath of space. That's why the hallway sequence works in Insomnia because it's about the relation between... You mean Inception.

But it would be cool if in Insomnia Al Pacino was in a revolving hallway. He's got too many eye movies. That's my take you know I I organized my blu-rays yeah alphabetically like a big old nerd he just owns the eyes he writes insomnia interstellar inception it's three ins it's three ins he's gotta fucking cut it out at least Dunkirk you got a nice d you should have called it in Dunkirk have you heard that Dunkirk's an hour 40 yeah Yeah, baby. That's amazing.

Because he just began longer and longer and now he's tightening that bell. I like it. I like it. David is putting his hands together as he whistles. As if he is bringing it in. Yep, I'm bringing it in.

Okay, so back. His shortest movie, shorter than Memento. Yeah, which is cool. Yeah. I mean, Following. Following is his shortest movie. Following is the length of... 69 minuteso. Yeah, which is cool. Yeah. I mean, Following. Following is his shortest movie. Following is the length of-

69 minutes long. Following is a two-reeler. It is. Yeah, it's the length of a couple Looney Tunes cartoons. So now, what the fuck are we even talking about? He's going out, he's making a name for himself. He's play-boing it up. He runs into Rachel.

He's embarrassed. And he's like, Rachel, this isn't who I am. This is an act. She's like, it's not the things we say. It's the things we do. Yeah. who I am. This is an act. She's like, it's not the things we say. It's the things we do. Yeah. The masks.

You're wearing these masks. And now, yeah, he goes out. He tries to get to the bottom of this shipment of this contraband that's being delivered down at the docks. Yep. Rachel Dawes' boyfriend

also was trying to figure this out. Yeah, fuck that guy. He gets moided. This guy Yeah fuck that guy He gets moided This guy's a drip He gets moided He's a fucking Baxter if I've ever seen one But then you have the scene where Batman encounters the Scarecrow by mistake almost And the Scarecrow gives him some fear gas

Right and he flips the fuck out Yeah man it's good It's good and then he wakes up three days later You got those dream sequences No whatever fear sequences This is the thing it's funny that Yeah, man. It's good. It's good. And then he wakes up three days later. You got those dream sequences. Not whatever. Fear sequences. This is the thing.

It's funny that after all these failed projects about like hallucinations. He does them. And he does them well. He does them really well. Like the Batman fear sequences are great. The Scarecrow one where you see Scarecrow see scary Batman. Yeah. And Batman looks like this like golem.

Like, you know, and he's like oozing black pus great well my single favorite image in this entire movie is when they've started infecting all the citizens of the narrows and they look above and Batman's flying over them and he's got the red eyes like on fire yeah and he's like yeah it's great it's great

it's great yeah because this movie was almost called Batman colon intimidation intimidation game game right that's right because it's about fear because this movie was almost called batman colon intimidation intimidation game right that's right because it's about fear and then you have that great scene right in the same time as all this shit where he catches uh flass yeah detective flass or sergeant flasser played by mark boone jr from memento a dude who scrubs his face with salami every night the greasiest man in the world. Yeah, this guy sleeps in a pizza pie. I'm just picturing Mark Boone Jr.

He uses a grandma pie as a blanket. He's a fine actor. He's got two Calzones as pillows. I'm sure he's a great man. No, he's great. I'm just picturing him coming home after a long day on set. He's a total pro. He knows his lines.

He hits his marks. And he just wants to sleep well. Get his full eight hours before he has to be on set 6 a.m. the next morning. And he walks into his bedroom. It's just the entire wall-to-wall is a grandma pie. He lies on top of it and then folds part of it on top of his body. He flops up his calzones. He scrubs the salami on his cheeks

this guy just like sweats vegetable oil he's so good he's got that great he's got like two scenes the one where he like gets his money and then he's like

to Gordon he's like hey Gordon you know why is she bad taste and he's like eating three things while he's saying it

and then he's talking to the street vendor guy and he's like the guy he's taking money from the guy's like hey I got kids guy. And he's like, the guy, he's taking money from the guys. Like, Hey, I got kids to feed.

He's like, what? They don't like falafel. You know, this fucking guy. And Batman, boom, grabs him by the ankles with some rope.

Ben's excited. Swear to me. And he's like, fuck shit. Who are they working for? Who are they working for? Well, I get in trouble if I say the C word.

What's on the table? What's off the table? Do I look like a cop? Oh, that C word. Where Batman is scary. Very scary. And again, we've already said it, but Batman hadn't been scary for a while. It was cool for him to be scary. Now, I

think... Too scary. Right. It's been tipped too far in one direction and that's what happens with Hollywood. Trends get taken to their logical extreme and then they have to pull back. This is why we can't have nice things. The idea that Zack Snyder saw this movie and was like, hmm, darker though

is the whole problem, right? Especially literally. Turn down the brightness um so uh yeah what happens in the plot of this movie i'm trying to remember it's mostly just like he's uncovering this thing which is that scarecrow working for razagul is bringing the fear toxin like blue but why a burlap sack does he put it on i don't have that line that. He has that line where he says, like, it's kind of silly. I know it looks silly, but it's scary.

I mean, that seems great when he's introducing himself as a villain. But Batman, you know, Batman's got vision. He's thinking about what he represents. Scarecrow's kind of a hack. Yeah. He's like, look, I got this toxin. I don't know. What do I got?

Someone hand me a sack or something. Right. But I love his sack face is so unsettling in this movie. What if it was a crow face then he'd be the crow Ben come on it's a simple format I like his sack face

I like it a lot and so the scarecrow is bringing this in the fear toxin and he's going to put it into the water supply he reveals this to Rachel Dawes before he toxins her my favorite joke in the movie is when Bruce Wayne wakes up out of his birthday coma. And he goes, what happened?

He goes, well, you know, you go around, you go to the club. You go to a party, someone's passing around, they're weaponized hallucinogens. It's a funny line. But I like that the fact that he's in league with Ra's al Ghul is revealed when Batman has used the toxin on him. Yes. And he's like, who are you working for? And he's like, Ra's al Ghul is revealed when Batman has used the toxin on him. Yes. And he's like, who are you working for? And he's like,

Ra's al Ghul. And he's like, Ra's al Ghul is dead. And that's what short circuits the Scarecrow's brain. It's like, one, this guy's heard of Ra's al Ghul. Two, he thinks he killed him.

Yeah. I am in over my head. And this is, you know, in this movie's balancing act, it's dance with the pulpier aspects of the material. Their sort of metaphorical way of representing the idea of Ra's al Ghul being this immortal, being this, you know, Lazarus Pit guy who can resurrect himself. You're watching the movie and going like, is Ken Wananabe going to come back? And it's like, no, it's Ra's al Ghul's more of an idea.

Yeah. A legend, Mr. Wayne.. A legend Mr. Wayne. A legend Mr. Wayne. Who is it? It's Liam Neeson. Oh Liam Neeson. He's back. Here's his plot. It's his big birthday party. He's just trying to have fun pretending to have fun. Right and Wayne goes up to a bald guy being

like it's Watanabe but then it turns around and it's just a random Asian guy. Well this woman goes oh I've just been speaking to the most interesting man. Mr. Ra's al Ghul? Which is a joke on the fact that no one knows how to pronounce Ra's al Ghul in the comics. Or in the movies. Or in life.

Yes. Within the headquarters of DC Comics. Right. And he thinks it's, no, it's another fat, bald guy. And then Liam Neeson's there and he burns London to the ground. And he talks about how the League of Shadows whole thing is when society has reached a tipping point

they reset. Much like Batman and Robin it was time to reboot the Batman franchise. He thinks Gotham needs a dark and gritty reboot in which everyone dies. This is my only problem with Batman Vs. It kind of ties into my Neeson objection which is just this is the one thing where I'm like I just don't

totally buy their plan. I buy it. Because he's like we've done it lots of times ancient rome london in the 17th century pompeii and built the volcano no other examples it's like what have you been burning down cities recently is that something you still do and like what is supposed to happen after gotham is burned to the ground within america like what's your like what is this yeah and also their plan to burn both to the ground within America? What is this? And also, their plan to burn Gotham to the ground is to make everyone afraid

and then they'll all kill each other? Is that the idea? He wants them to destroy it themselves. Okay. Sometimes man is the deadliest volcano of all. It's a flawed plan. I like it. Because they're dumb bad guys. Sure. It's fine. I mean, I'm offering a half-hearted objection. It's a flawed plan. I like it. Because they're dumb bad guys. Sure. It's fine.

I mean, I'm offering a half-hearted objection. It's fine. So yeah, they realize... I just think the turn is a little more forced than like Nisen part one. Nisen part two, I'm just kind of like, alright. They realize they've worked the blue flower into the water supply of the city.

They got this sort of like machine that evaporates. Right. There's this subplot where like a Wayne invention that like vaporizes. It got stolen in shipment. He's going to be part of this. It's fine. It works.

He's doing the legwork. Yeah. And the plot is get the thing onto the train. You drive the train. It vaporizes all the water. Everyone's going to breathe in this toxins. It's in the air. They'll all kill each other. But they hit the narrows first. But who has to stop them? A legend, Mr. Wynn.

Earl? Who's Earl? My name is Earl. What? I don't know. David, I need food. Yeah, I'm hungry too. Okay. Yeah. I'm hungry too. Okay. Yeah, the ending's good. The ending's good.

You should mention the Batmobile. Oh, yeah. Does it come in black? Right. And it's great. I mean, I remember thinking it looked dumb when they revealed it. Sure. This is the best action sequence in the movie.

He saves Rachel, who's been dosed. Yeah, and he drives. That's when the Hans Zimmer, James Newton Howard theme is really pumping. He's flying on rooftops. He's dealing with the cops and the cops are like, it's a tank. They're afraid of it and

that's all good. I think it's a part of Nolan's whole idea with all his action sequences, which is they should be tactile and they should be real and these devices should work like they built these cars. But they got to go big. The second Nolan's focusing on two people in close quarters, it gets fucked. Yeah. He's just obviously not as interested in it.

Like, it's just a little more half-hearted. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so all the Bat stuff and then he works works with Gordon to like, Gordon gets to drive the Batmobile. Yeah. He says, I gotta get me one of these! In one of the cornier lines. Yeah, it's hard to, like, recapping a movie in this way doesn't do Gordon any justice.

But I just like- He's just peppered in. He's this pillar of moral integrity. I agree. He's just one good man left in the city. Right, but it's not in a sort of over-the-top way where he's angelic. It's not saintly. It's not sanctimonious.

It's good that there's that scene where Flass is like, we're worried about you. And he's like, I'm not a rat. I'm a cop. I'm not going to rat on you guys. I'm not going to get a taste. Right, right. Do whatever the fuck you want. I get that I am like an outlier

here and then he fights Descartes on the train and this was the year 2004 you got Incredibles and Spider-Man 2 both do big elevated train sequences and then this is 2005 the following year

and then after that they hung up that jersey elevated train in the middle of a superhero movie. Trying to think if there's any other. Gets lifted to the rafters. There were three in like 18 months. Bomb Voyage. Remember him? Great guy. Monsieur Incroyable! Why doesn't that guy work anymore? He's a good actor.

Good actor. Bomb Voyage? I believe Brad Bird actually did the voice, but I can't remember. Really? I think so. You want my guess? I'm gonna be a real Pixar dick here. I think so. You want my guess? I'm going to be a real Pixar dick here. I think it was Teddy Newton. I think it was

Pixar story artist Teddy Newton. We're both wrong. It was some guy called Dominique Lewis. Okay, well then fuck me. Yep, anyway. Batman fights him

on the chain. He goes, you won't kill somebody and he goes, no, but I don't have to save you and he flies away and then he kisses Rachel. There's a scene I really like.

Lots of nice tying up. And then there's the early moment that's nice when Batman ties the thug to the spotlight so they kind of get the idea. Not the thug, it's Falcone. Oh, it's Falcone himself with his raggedy jacket now.

That's right. That looks like a bat swings. Bat coat. Sorry. The scene I think Bale's best scene in the movie is when he realizes Ra's al Ghul's plan. He's got to get everyone out of his

mansion immediately so he pretends to do the drunk speech. Yeah. And it's like he's playing four things at the same time. He's really good. It's funny. It's a funny speech. I feel like we... I feel like we nailed all of the major stuff. Yeah, we just kind of front loaded.

Yeah, we got Opera Man. Yeah, we got Opera Man. Swear to right? Yeah, we just kind of front-loaded. Yeah, we got Opera Man. Yeah, we got Opera Man. Swear to me. Yeah, we got, you know, Tom Wilkinson. We got Rachel Dawes. Oh, we forgot the most important thing. The memo. Didn't you get the memo?

Earl wants to fold applied sciences into their archives and fire Fox. Lucius, yes. Then you get the memo, and at the end of the movie, after Batman saved the day, Earl gets fired. Morgan Freeman's now the boss. And he goes, didn't you get the memo? Yeah, but also Bruce bought the company when it went public.

Right, right. He bought all the shares. He has that, again, the repeated line. He loves that shit where he's like, it's a lot of shell corporations or whatever. You wouldn't understand. Very complicated. They burn his mansion down to the ground. I love the tease at the end where he's like,

look, maybe we could do some renovations to the east wing, which I feel like the other two movies don't pay off. He never gets a proper bat cave again. I like that in this movie he's in a cave with drips and fucking stalagmites it's not like where he goes in and there's like a computer that's like hello mr wayne like hi batman it felt like that's what they were setting up was he was gonna have like a whole huge proper bat cave and then i'm like in dark night and batman begins to he uh is just like in an apartment and then underneath the apartment he's got like a garage that's kind of minimalist. They never fully rebuild

Wayne Manor until Dark Knight Rises. Yeah, in Dark Knight Wayne Manor has been burned down, which is what happens in this movie. Right. And then Batman Right, yeah, anyway. And then Dark Knight's rebuilt. Anyway, anyway. Rachel has this final speech with him where she talks about the masks he wears and says this is the real mask. Batman is now

who you are. That's sort of become him. Right. She's basically saying like I'm not going to date you unless you're not Batman anymore. It's only really important for Dark Knight because it's sort of part of his motivation. Which is great because Katie Holmes doesn't get to play any of that ever again. She's fine in this movie. Yeah I think she became an unfortunate

target. But yeah this was the same summer as War of the Worlds so it was like ah their publicity. David almost spilled a drink five times. I almost spilled it on myself and then I almost spilled it on my laptop. I remember people even making the joke when the Batman Begins poster. They had this real kind of amazing like Universal Monsters poster that was. Him dissolving into a bunch of bats?

Correct. Yes. No, that was Batman holding like Rachel Dawes' body where he looked kind of monstrous. People were like, oh God, it's weird. Batman looks like Tom Cruise now. Now that you know Katie Holmes. I remember people making jokes like that. Well, those people are silly.

I do like the scene where he summons all the bats with his bat shoe. Oh, I love that. And then he jumps down the hallway and he gets a little hero shot of him inflating his cape while all the bats circle around him. It's nice. A lot of bats in this movie. Yeah, I think that was the DVD cover was him. He doesn't use the bats as much in the later movies.

No, this one's very bat-driven. This one, he's really into bats. Another thing I love is that when they... I don't think the sequels totally paid off on this, but the idea that they opened all the doors at Arkham Asylum so these are going to be all the future villains are these Arkham escapees. Yeah.

But then the final scene, of course, he meets Gordon up on the rooftop after the Bat-Signal's been activated, and Gordon gives this great speech summing up the plans for the franchise. It says, you know, escalation. You wear Kevlar, they buy armor-piercing. It says, you know, escalation. You know, you wear Kevlar, they buy armor-piercing rounds.

You, you know, it goes through the whole thing. You go, you know, you walk around wearing a costume and it's like, okay, here we go. All these Arkham guys are out in the streets.

Batman's wearing a crazy costume. They're all gonna take personas. Now we got a franchise. And then probably the best sequel to tease in history, right? So smart. I mean, it's like this and Back to the Future are the two best like sequel lob ups where he's just like someone's been robbing some banks keeps leaving a calling card just got a taste for the theatrical like you

likes a good laugh and i just remember when that line happens everyone that you could feel a chill in the theater because it feels like okay nolan's starting over the senses that these things are sacred they can't redo the same characters they've done before. Or can they? And then when he flips over the card,

it was just like fucking spooge in all over the place. And then of course that becomes the narrative of the sequel. It's like, who will play Joker?

Like that was like a year long like internet narrative. A month after the movie came out, they were like Steve Carell, Steve Buscemi,

Michael Keaton. Like I remember every fucking name in the world was thrown around. Adrian Brody, Olivia de Havilland. I'm hungry. I am too. Let's go get food. The movie is called Batman Begins.

I love it. It's Batman. I'm going to elevate him to being one of my best movie friends. Excuse me. There's a little game we have to play. I'm not saying we're done with the episode. I'm saying we're done talking about the movie. Not an intimidation game neither. Okay. And then I have a game we have to play. I'm not saying we're done with the episode. I'm saying we're done talking about the movie.

Not an intimidation game neither. Okay, and then I have a game to play with him. Oh, okay. Okay. He's pulling out his phone. Batman Begins opens

June 17th, 2005. Okay. It opens number one at the box office, $48 million. It eventually- And it was a five-day weekend, open all Wednesday,

so I think I'm going to make him like 70 by the time that Sunday rolled around maybe you're right well anyway that's what I'm getting here okay

you're right it opened on the 15th actually yeah and it eventually grosses 205 million dollars domestic 374 worldwide

just to think like a Batman movie doing badly worldwide yeah rather than now that would be the play would be like well we'll make tons of money it's crazy i mean this movie made 200 in total and batman uh dark knight opens to 150 plus yeah like this movie comes within you know close range of outgrossing the entire predecessor in its opening weekend. Okay, so opening weekend, 2005. Fuck, so I'm thinking May releases from 2005. Yeah, so it opens number one.

Number two is an action picture that had opened the week before that was a box office sensation and a tabloid sensation? Mr. and Mrs. Smith. That's right. But I just, I wanted to do the thing where I pivoted the microphone. It was fine.

He pivoted the microphone over to Ben and gave him, looked at Ben. Ben was like looking at his phone. Yeah. Ben was not engaged. Not interested in me.

Mr. and Mrs. Smith, which has now made 96 mil in two weeks, was a big hit. Yeah. Okay, number three. Animated movie. Madag big hit. Yeah. Okay, number three. Animated movie. Madagascar.

Correct. Those are the easiest for him to guess. Yep. Folks, which has made $146 in a month. A disturbingly big hit. Number four is a film we've talked about on this podcast. Oh, by the way, you know, in some previous episode, I talked about how weirdly fragmented the Madagascar franchise is in terms of separate timelines.

And then someone, I think maybe Will Goss, got confirmation from someone who works on the Madagascar TV show that I was correct. Between the film series and the TV show, there are three different timelines. Great, okay. Now is not the time to brag. No, no, it's fine. Number four is a movie we have discussed in this podcast many times. Many times? Plenty of times.

Have we covered it or we just discussed it? Covered it. We've covered it. Yes. War of the Worlds. A legend, Mr. Wayne. No, War of the Worlds comes out later. I think it was a July release.

Yeah. It's not Elizabethtown. It's not a Cameron movie. In five weeks weeks it has made 348 million dollars whoa Nelly whoa Nelly indeed wait wait wait 2005

it's made 348 million dollars so it had to be the highest grossing film in 2005 that's a good question it was with 380 total why am I blinking on it the number the top 5 of 2005

are this movie number 2 is Narnia number 3 is Goblet of Fire number 4 is War of the Worlds number 5 is King Kong and it's a director we've covered

yes so it's not a Shyamalan no and it's not oh oh oh oh oh oh I'm a fucking dummy. Dumbass. It's called Phantom Menace Revenge of the Sith. Correct.

That was it's title. Yeah. Yeah. Star Wars Episode 3 has made lots of money. Star Wars Episode 3 with a budget about 50 million dollars lower than Batman Begins' budget if you can imagine it. Number 5 is a comedy.

It's a remake. Longest Yard? Yes. Okay. Holy shit. I want food. Now here's the game I'm going to play with you.

No, excuse me. I'm going to say some of the other titles. Oh, okay. Adventure's a Sharkboy and Lava Girl in 3D with Taylor Lautner.

Who's the girl? I don't think she really worked. Cinderella Man. Weird movie. Ron Howard. Very weird movie. Ron Howard, very weird movie. Ron Howard shooting last on Han Solo.

That's right. Number eight, The Perfect Man. Let's not forget. Oh, the Hilary Duff? Hilary Duff and Heather Locklear. I think Chris Noth plays the titular Perfect Man. I believe you're correct. She pretends to be a guy.

Who fucking cares? So her mom feels less lonely. Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants is in there good film good franchise yeah I agree the Honeymooners the Cedric the Entertainer

Mike Epps reimagining yeah not a hit a dark gritty reboot you don't remember that one Crash is hanging around

in the top 20 you got Monster-in-Law yeah okay I want to play a billing game with you because I think Nolan's billing is always really interesting okay I want to play a billing game with you because I think Nolan's billing is always really

interesting and I want to set this up for future episodes can you guess the billing who's above the title this credit block it's on this one it is six names Christian Bale correct is number one correct Michael Caine

correct yes okay alright that was that was the scariest one. Number three. Gary Oldman? No. Katie Holmes? No. Liam Neeson? Correct.

Right, right, sorry. And then Katie? Yes. Then Gary. Yeah, which is weird that Gary's that deep. Yeah, but Katie was, yeah, she was a big play. And then, so wait, have I named one, two, three, four of them now? You have named five now.

Oh, so and Morgan Freeman. Correct. Right. And then if you go down to the credit block underneath, it's Christian Bale above the title, then Michael Caine, Liam Neeson, Katie Holmes, Gary Oldman. Then you add in Cillian Murphy. Cillian Murphy, then Rucker Hauer? Tom Wilkinson. Oh, of course, right, sorry. Then R Murphy. Then Rucker Hauer. Tom Wilkinson. Oh, of course. Right.

Sorry. Then Rucker. Then Rucker Hauer. Then Watanabe. Then Ken Wat... Poor Ken. And then... And Morgan Freeman. And Morgan Freeman. No with. Yeah, well, Kane's your obvious with. But they give him second billing. But he obviously negotiated a big enough salary or whatever that they put him second billing. I just want to set that up because I think

the billing gets interesting on the next two. Yes, it does. Love billing. Love billing. Love billing. Love Batman. He fights crime. Yeah. In the city of Gotham. Billing begins.

Well, everyone, this has been our episode on Barfman Begarts. Yep. I hope you liked it. We need to get food right now because our brains are clearly melting.

We gave you a nice two hours of batting. Yeah, yeah. You got nothing to complain about. Shut of batting. Yeah, yeah. You got nothing to complain about. Shut the fuck up. Batting man. He is the batting

of the men. And tune in next week for our episode on the prestige. Le prestige. Right, which is like a little blank check. That's like he's coming

off a blockbuster and he gets... This is... Now Nolan's game is I make you a Batman, you let me make what I want, right? And so after Batman begins, solid hit, he makes a little magic movie.

What if Wolverine and Batman were magicians? After Dark Knight, huge hit, he gets to make his dream police movie. What if DiCaprio was a dream thief? And then after Dark Knight Rises, huge hit, even though it's bad, he gets to make a space movie. I if DiCaprio was a dream thief? And then after Dark Knight Rises, he's a huge hit even though it's bad. He gets to make a space movie. I don't know.

Anyway, hi everyone. Goodbye. Thank you for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Big thanks to Ang for Gudo for running our social media accounts. Yes. Bo and Pat Reynolds for doing our artwork. Yes. For the theme song. Yes. Go to our Reddit for some dorky, Montgomery, for the theme song. Yes.

Go to our Reddit for some dorky shit that people are arguing over all the time. Please do. And as always. Yes. And as always. Swear to me.

Crap. Fuck. Batman. Fuck you. Start recording, guys. And whenever you want to jump in. Love this movie whenever you want to love this movie yeah i love this movie good movie okay it's a good yeah it's good are you excited for jurassic world forbidden kingdom that's the fucking title

jurassic world colon forbidden kingdom wait what made it forbidden it's forbidden you can't go no no that that new birth movies death Daniel Day Lewis account which is really good I don't know if you've been following that he tweeted like hey I just made your job simpler for you and took the poster and it was

Jurassic crossed out kingdom yeah sure I think the only problem with that is like, you know, where do you end? It's like Jurassic universe. Yeah, that's where you end it. Just keep going. Yeah. Jurassic galaxy.

Or you call it Jurassic land or you call it Jurassic, you know. Land is smaller than world and bigger than park. They should have gotten park, land, world. Are there dinosaurs? No, there aren't dinosaurs in this one. That's the twist no dinosaurs it's just about like urban planning yeah the whole reason i'm trying to pick out a new location yeah right it's just bureaucracy and like yeah it stars richard

jenkins he's got to deal with like the zoning board something Something has been negotiated. They're like, dinosaurs, I don't know. And he's like, it's fine. It starts. Picture check. Where's the fucking quote? Put that all at the end of the episode. Yeah, put it at the end. You were recording all that, right?

Yeah. That was great stuff. That was great stuff. Ben, that was great stuff. All right, all right. Come on. Okay, where's the thing I'm looking for? Cut out the part where I said it was great stuff.

No, keep it in. Double it.