Blank Check with Griffin & David - Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - The Lost Episode (Remastered)

Episode Date: April 22, 2016

Back in March of 2016 when Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice was first released in theaters, Griffin, David, and Ben recorded a one-off episode about the film. Due to technical issues, much of the audio was lost. An abridged version was released April 22, 2016. Here is the newly remastered "Ultimate edition" of the lost episode which includes 36 minutes of never before released material! Remastered by AJ McKeon

Do you podcast? You will. Ladies and gentlemen, an intro from David Sims. Thank you. Himself. Yeah, you probably can't even hear it. I was doing my Batman voice. I had prepped one, but then David's was better.

You hadn't prepped one. I was pre-prepping one. All right. I was pre-prepping one. My name is David Sims. My name's Griffin Newman. Welcome to Blank Check with Griffin and David. With Griffin and David. With Griffin and David. With Griffin and David.

With Griffin and David. With Griffin and David. David versus Griffin. Yeah. Dawn of podcasting. Dawn of benducing. This is... Guys, whoa, hi.

Here's what we like to do on this podcast. Talk movies. Maybe you heard of them. Talkies. Motion pictures. Flicks. Films. Cinema. This is a film podcast. Heard of them? Talkies, motion pictures, flicks, films, cinema. This is a film podcast.

Usually we focus on, you know, sort of creative extravaganzas, good or bad. Yeah. That are being made with a blank check. But here's the thing. We like careers. Do you know what I'm saying? We like zooming out, looking at the career. It's the kind of podcast where we'll be like M. Nightalan heard of him boom 11 episodes yeah and then we're done with him

and never want to talk about him again but we'll just flip you a quick 11 like that and then we're like oh the wachowskis we should talk about them but first wait a second let me give you a little sherbert to cleanse that palate sure a little sher little sherbet. Because we're like those cooks. What's it called? Macrobiology? Whatever. Gastropubtologists? Yeah, exactly.

A couple of gastropubtologists you're talking to. We give you a little piece of steak tartare. Oh, delicious. Steak M night. What's next? Give some sherbet. Yeah. Don't people sometimes use sher next? Give us some sherbet. Yeah.

Don't people sometimes use sherbet as a... We should probably literally start this over. I don't think this is good. You don't like this? No, I like the Batman intro, but I don't know what's... What is this garbage? Anyway. This is the second episode we're recording today. After like a three-week break.

We're losing our minds. We're losing our minds. We're having fun, guys. I'll make having fun guys you can chop it up if you need to but here we are look this episode might be fixed in post by producer ben aka oh no don't do that just yet jesus christ we'll introduce producer ben in a second producer how dare you sir i'm not a producer producer yeah at the very least he's a pro doer yeah, okay, can I try something different for this episode? Sure. At different intervals. You'll say one of his names? Okay, so Purdue or Ben.

Hey, guys. So here we are. I'm David, you're Griffin, and today we're going to talk about the superhero films of Zack Snyder, particularly Batman v Superman, Dawn of Justice. Right. Batman v Superman. I'm sorry. Yeah.

Batman v.Superman colon Dawn o. Batman V. Superman colon Don O. Justice. Had to do another bit. Boy. You know this movie's been picked apart and dunked over more than General Zod's corpse at this point. This episode's not even coming out

the week we're recording it but this movie's been out for about a month now. Yeah, by the time this comes out. This will be about a month. And it has vanished from the public consciousness 100%. So we thought, great time for us to discuss it. And we don't want to just shit on it. We want to try to put it in a larger context.

We want to figure out where Zack Snyder stands with superheroes. No, I just want to shit on it. There's a lot of shitting to do. And also, this movie is going to launch a DC Cinematic Universe. Yeah. So usually we talk about directors, you know, who are being kind of just like given free reign to make this sort of nonsense. Yeah. That's sometimes good, sometimes bad.

It's a little different. Look, in some ways. Because as you say, it's a franchise starter. They simultaneously gave him way too much freedom and reigned him in a lot. Well, I wouldn't say they reigned him in at all. They just gave him a lot of freedom, but then also said, but you do have to do a bunch of stuff. You're right. They didn't reign him in.

They gave him like a long reading list. Because they did not reign him in. No, not at all. Batman v Superman. Okay, so let's back up a little because we like contextualizing these things. Oh, boy. Zack Snyder's like a commercials guy. Zack Snyder.

Zack Snyder. Zack Snyder. Yeah. Is a commercials guy? I didn't know that. I think he was like a commercials director. I think that was a big thing. Sex Snyder. Yeah. Is a commercials guy. I didn't know that. I think it's like a commercials director. I think that was a big

thing. It was like a big hot shot like commercial director. His name is the peeper. Oh yeah that's his name.

Some call him the peeper. Talking about Ben. Got my eyes on you too. He then makes a film called Dawn of the Dead.

Sure. Written by James Gunn. A remake of the George Romero zombie flick. A movie that I think is great. Yeah. Gooditten by James Gunn. A remake of the George Romero zombie flick. A movie that I think is great. Yeah, good movie. It's the one Zack Snyder film I really, really like.

Pretty much everyone likes it. It's good. I own it. I watch it a lot. Stylish. It's also... Well acted. It's one of the few remakes of a great movie that I think is great on its own.

You know? It keeps the right elements. Thumbs up. It reinvents it in enough ways. And that's all we need to say about that. Great cast, right? Sure. It's a film that is stylish,

but it's not overly stylized. Moving on. Then he makes a film called 300. It's a huge smash hit. Boom. Huge. It's a god awful movie. Not a movie I like.

No. But it's massive. One of the biggest cinematic disappointments I've ever had was 300. Really? I was really excited for it. I liked Dawn of the Dead. And, you know, it looked cool. There were all these trailers.

And I think I was looking forward to, like, a really epic bloodbath of a movie. And the thing people don't say about 300 is it's weirdly not that violent. No, not at all. It's, like, it's not very bloody or gory or anything. You know, it's kind about 300 is it's weirdly not that violent no not at all it's like it's not very bloody or gory or any you know it's kind of just it's it's lame and it's also like super racist yeah and it's just homophobic yeah yeah yeah it's gross movie but you know it had this distinct visual style it's got some slow motion violence though some slow motion yeah yeah just a little bit just a tiny little bit but um and it also gave us like gerard butler you know it didn't hasn't done a lot for us it gifted us with gerard

butler i mean he was still round but you know really yeah yeah but that was a big breakout for michael fassbender apparently i mean he's in it but he started like getting big parts after that and i remember being like who was he in that movie? I don't fucking remember. He's one of the shirtless guys. Exactly. How did he fucking pop from that? It probably helped Lena Headey get Game of Thrones, if you're into that.

Yeah, and we were saying earlier, I think she's probably the best part of that movie. We're not talking about 300. Jesus Christ. But 300 makes a crazy amount of money. Huge hit, and it was an adaptation of a comic book. A Frank Miller comic book. It weirdly feels like Sin City set the stage for 300 to do. Right, because it was like a green screen movie.

Right. And it sort of like, Sin City was maybe a little ahead of the curve, and 300 hit right at the right point of the bell curve. So everyone now thinks that he's a visionary genius. Sure, so then he's handed the keys to the sort of by acclamation

greatest comic book ever written. No, let's just talk about. No, no, because we're going to talk about Watchmen a lot today, okay? Yeah. Let's talk about the fact Watchmen comes out, I believe, 1984? In the mid-80s. Maybe six. It comes out in the mid-80s, right?

It's revolutionary. Yeah, it's a 12-issue series or something like that. That's a huge hit. It's collected in a trade paperback that's an even bigger hit. It's a game-changer. Alan Moore's masterwork, 1986 and 7. Okay. Time Magazine, when they did their 100 greatest novels of all time recently, put it on there.

That was the one graphic novel. It's Watchmen. Terry Gilliam tried to make it into a movie. Right, that's what I was going to say. Very quickly, everyone was trying to make it into a movie. Joel Silver had the rights for a long time. He wanted to do it as an action film. Terry Gilliam wanted to do it as this and that. They talked about doing it as into a movie. Right, that's what I was going to say. Very quickly, everyone was trying to make it into a movie. Joel Silver had the rights for a long time. He wanted to do it

as an action film. Terry Gilliam wanted to do it as this and that. They talked about doing it as an HBO miniseries. So it was too expensive. All these things. And there was a series of guys

of like Greengrass came really close to doing it. Aronofsky came really close to doing it. And it kept on getting shut down. Greengrass came really close. Very close. Like there was material.

Yeah. There was like pre-production material. And his cast, if I believe, I'm remembering correctly, was, I heard it was Ron Perlman as the comedian, John Cusack as Night Owl. Great. Hilary Swank as Silk Spectre.

Simon Pegg as Rorschach. What? That would be terrible. Maybe he'd be okay. I don't know. Yeah. Who's Dr. Manhattan? I'm trying to remember.

It doesn't matter. Anyway, I don't know. Yeah. Who's Dr. Manhattan? I'm trying to remember. It doesn't matter. Anyway, it didn't happen. Whatever. And then pretty quickly it got handed over to Zack Snyder I think with this idea

that like, here's a guy who's made a comic book movie that's rated R and is super, you know, high production value

and he's done it well and it's been a hit. He was on Watchmen before 300 came out because I remember distinctly... We don't have enough time to argue these semantics

we're gonna talk about it no no no because I think I'm just they knew we're not going through all his movies but this is what I want to say

okay Watchmen had always been this thing that people studios were buying it it was in turnaround it went through like four different studios

right yeah yeah yeah and everyone like wanted to make it because it was so well acclaimed but then the studios would look at it and be like, how are we going to fucking make a movie out of this?

It's R-rated. It doesn't have action scenes. It's really expensive. It's for adults. It's not a franchise starter. It's a one-off, right? And so these big directors would come on, and I'd say to my friends, like,

I think Aaron Robson's going to make it this time. It's like, it's not going to get made. It never gets made. Watchmen never gets made. And Zack Snyder, like, the timing was just right. He was the guy in development on it at the time that 300 was coming out. Right. And 300 was so big that he immediately went, that's what I'm doing.

Right. I'm cashing in everything on this. Yeah. And he got it made exactly the way he wanted to. Which was, in terms of plot and dialogue and look and setting, pretty faithful to Alan Moore's comic book. But, thoughtingly literal. Yeah, no, totally blew it. And super superficial.

You know, like, Alan Moore comic book is set in the 80s, like, in a sort of weird, and he made that happen. Fucking, like, frame-by-frame recreation. But, like, you know, like, Greengrass' take supposedly was set in the present day, or whatever, you know, like, there were other scripts that had changed things, or whatever. Yes, yes. Apart from the ending of the movie, which he tweaks,

Snyder basically made the comic book. And the framing of a lot of the images whatever. Yes, yes. Apart from the ending of the movie which he tweaks, Snyder basically made the comic book. And the framing of a lot of the images is like identical. You know? Which is something a trick he had pulled off

in 300. Right. You know, and he did it again. Yeah. We'll talk about Watchmen. It's a bad movie. Then he has a couple

big flops in the back. And it doesn't make a huge amount of money but it's not like a total bomb. It was a huge disappointment because the trailer played before Dark Knight

which was really sort of this apex moment of like superhero cinema. People went bananas for the trailer. All these people who never read the comic book

just thought it looked cool. Right. Right? Because it was a cool trailer. Yeah, it was fine. I'm saying it was a quote unquote cool And it was from

the visionary director of 300. Right. And you were seeing a serious Batman movie and maybe you thought That's what the tagline was. Cool. And it was from the visionary director of 300. Right, and you were seeing a serious Batman movie. That's what the tagline was. Yeah. And they thought it was going to do like crazy numbers.

It did 50 million opening weekend, which at the time was viewed as sort of a disappointment. Yeah, it was like, okay. Because it had a big Friday to Saturday drop off. Yeah, and then it ended around 100. Right, so it like doubled its opening weekend. The next weekend it did like a 70% drop, right? Yeah you know it cost like 130 to make i don't think it was a huge hit overseas you know it did its thing it wasn't probably did well enough for home video but it was it was a disappointment right um then sucker punch which they were so bullish on watch and he'd been making

like the whole like he'd been making it before he He made it. That's the thing. He was like preemptively cashing a second blank check off of the success of Watchmen. No, Sucker Punch is the most blank checky movie he ever made because it's an original idea. It's bug fuck nuts.

Yeah. It's not good either, but it's probably better than Watchmen. I have not seen it. Anyway. But when he announced Sucker Punch,

he had a cast that was like the five best young actresses. And after Watchmen. I have not seen it. Anyway. But when he announced Sucker Punch, he had a cast that was like the five best young actresses. And after Watchmen came out, they all dropped out. I roll my eyes at that. Oh, the original cast. I was going to say like Jenna Malone.

No, no, no, no. No, the original cast of Sucker Punch, I believe was Emma Stone, Mia Wasikowska. Oh, shit. I think Jenna Malone

was the one. He had, he truly had. He had a list of like sort of, yeah, actresses around 25. But he had the five actresses you would want to get in that age range. And then all of them dropped out of for Watchmen. He still got a ton of money to make it.

It was a huge financial disaster. Simultaneously with directing Sucker Punch. But Oscar Isaacson. Yeah. Simultaneously while directing Sucker Punch, he is directing an animated film, despite having no background in animation. Legends of the Guardians colon the Owls of Gahool that's the name of the movie

you have to say it like that is it about just owls? yeah it's about Australian owls what? do you not remember this movie? part of different warrior clans it's very pretty

it looks nice nice looking owl they're fighting owls it's like an owl it's like Redwall with owls. It's based off a series of young fantasy novels. Correct. That is weird. Yeah, and it's called Legend of the Guardians.

The Owls of Gahoo! That one was actually a moderate success. I mean, but that cost a lot of money, that movie. They also wanted to make like seven of them. That's a franchise. That's so weird. That's why they started with the Legends of the Guardian, because it was going to make like seven of them. Like that's a franchise. That's so weird. You know? That's why they started with the Legends of the Guardian because it was going to be like. Legends.

Yeah, it was going to be called like Guardians of Gahool. And then they decided, no, let's get a colon. Right. So we can franchise it. So we can make the different titles. So he's kind of on the outs. Like he's kind of on what you would think of as a downward swing. And maybe you'd think like, oh, like Hollywood maybe is caught on to the fact that this guy's thing doesn't always work money wise.

And Warner Brothers has now lost a good amount of money on him. Very true. All of his movies, except for Dawn of the Dead, were made for Warner Brothers. Yes. But you know what? Warner Brothers is still probably like 300, though. Yeah. You know, and that is the blank check.

Classic blank check situation. So, Christopher Nolan's done with his Dark Knight trilogy. Yeah. And Warner Brothers is like, hey, do you want to make Superman movies for us? Like, produce them? Like, whatever. We just need your name. We just love you, Chris Nolan.

Like, please don't leave us. Oh, my God. What are we going to do without you? He sits down with David Goyer. And they over... The great Satan of superhero films. David S. Goyer. They talk for like an hour and a half.

And they walk out of there and they go, we think we have an interesting, like, basic nugget of a Superman movie. Yeah, their basic nugget was, what if Superman, what if we did like a Superman movie where he's Superman? That's the idea. Like, what the fuck? Like, what was their nugget? I think their nugget was, what if you really play up the alien thing and it's about him trying to figure out whether or not the world needs Superman? Yeah, what a stupid idea. They go to Warner Brothers brothers christopher nolan pretty

much is hands off from that yeah no one writes gets he's a story credit he's a producer yeah and he picks zach snyder okay so a little backstory here because boy have we not had enough of that there was a do you remember the beginning of this podcast how bad it was no one's listening go ahead no i cut all that that out. Oh, good. This is the start. Hey, everybody. So there was a long-standing lawsuit. Lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit.

This case of legal... Oh, about Jerry Siegel and Jerry... Right. About the creators of Superman. The estates of the creators of Superman. What they're entitled to. Yeah. Yeah.

And at the point in time when they... When Nolan came to them and said, I think I have an idea for how to reinvent Superman, they looked to be losing that battle. Schuster and Siegel had come up with a really good case. And Warner Brothers' strategy was... Every time we do these one-offs, he gets so mad at you. It's so hilarious. It's just like, what the fuck, man?

This frustration throughout the recording just builds and builds. We're not... Just go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Someone was recently telling me... I just wanted to make sure the audience knows that while Griffin is giving some interesting points, David is just going like, I'm just doing the

wrap it up sign. Okay, Jerry Schuster, but they lose. But it looks like they're going to win. They, at that moment, they lost later. They, at that moment, said, we have to rush a Superman movie into production in the next year. Because it was like Warner Brothers was going to lose the rights to Superman. Was that it?

Like what was the or like it was going to cost them too much or something? The case okay this is what's kind of fascinating. Boy why did I ask? What am I doing? They ended up splitting. So their case was like we own DC like the DC Comics franchise and thus we get Superman. They broke

down. These Schuster and Siegel. They broke down... Oh, my God. These Schuster and Siegel estates broke down all the elements that were present in the first issue and were like, okay, we own the rights to Red Cape and this and that. They, like, broke down elements of the character. So it was going to be stripped in half,

which was also a big part of the new 52 DC redesign with the new suit so that they couldn't lay claim to the suit. If they made a new film before the trial that they thought they were going to lose, they would be able to make sequels to that film. They could do whatever they wanted, right? Yes, because that would have been established. They have the toehold. Where other directors were interested.

Aronofsky was apparently very interested in doing Man of Steel. He would have made a terrible movie. He said, I think the He would have done dog shit. He said, I think the script isn't good. I think it needs a couple of rewrites. And Warner Brothers said, fuck you,

we need to be in production in the next eight months. Because the script was by Goyer. Yeah. Just Goyer. But it was like a first draft and they needed to go. So they offered a bunch of people,

everyone was like, the script is not ready. Yeah. And then they go to Zack Snyder and they're like, this guy is a good, like, visual stylist.

But I think Nolan was into him. I think so too. Which. I think so, too. Which hurts my feelings. Mine, too. Because I really like Christopher Nolan. I think they felt like they were going to keep him on a tighter leash for that film. Sure. And that film he is on a relatively tight leash.

Yeah. Relatively. Yeah. And I think they also thought, like, this guy knows how to make a movie this size. He's comfortable with this sort of scale and this sort of technology. We got to get this film made. He makes Man of Steel. Yeah.

It's a, you know, kind of a bomb. It does well. Domestically, it makes $300 million domestically. $291. Okay. It's not good. That's not bad. It's 2013 in the middle of the sort of Marvel era.

You know, it's like not great. A Man of Steel comes out. We were just getting to know each other. Yeah, when that movie came out. And we were both real pumped up because the trailer was great. I think the trailer was great. And I will say this. I do think the final trailer for Man of Steel.

You have made this joke so many times. Is the best Superman movie ever made. It's a good trailer. But we're not going to do Man of Steel because we're doing Batman vs. Superman here. Okay. But at least, you know, we should say it comes out. It does okay. They're a little disappointed. People don't like least, you know, we should say it comes out, does okay. They're a little disappointed.

People don't like it, but they don't hate it. It doesn't catch fire. It doesn't get great reviews. It's not, you know, it's not despised. Henry Cavill as Superman is fine. It's disliked. There's like nothing in it that anyone was like, well, I liked that. Warner Brothers thought people were going to love it.

Yes, they did. And there's one thing everyone hated, most everyone hated, which is that the movie ends with Superman fighting General Zod, played by Michael Shannon, and they fucking smash a city into smithereens and then you, like,

snap Zod's neck. And it's a lot of destruction and it's like, oh, look how cool these buildings are being blown up, not considering how many people are dying.

Now, I will say, there is literally no Superman movie that has a good ending. Agreed. The first Superman, which is an excellent film, Richard Donner's Superman,

where he revolves the Earth backwards to go back in time. Right. And how does Superman 2 end? I mean, they kill General Zod, they, like, drop him off a cliff or whatever. You know, forget the other,

you know, three and four and all that. And then, like, Superman returns, like, okay, he lifts a giant kryptonite continent and throws it into space. The last scene of that movie is Superman hovering outside

his illegitimate love child's bedroom watching him. This is an element of the movie that a lot of people were confused by. Like watching his sleeping son and Lois is like, where are you going? And he's like,

I'll be around. Yeah, what a strange movie. It ends with him being like, I'm going to be looking after my son. But I'm saying, there's no set piece. They never quite figured out how to do a Superman scene because he's hard. He's hard to do. He's a strange movie. It ends with him being like, I'm going to be looking after my son. But I'm saying, like, there's no set piece. They never quite figured out how to do a Superman. Because he's hard.

He's hard to do. He's a hard character. He's a hard character to dramatize because you can only beat him one way with Kryptonite. And then the Kryptonite just kind of makes him fall over. The film it looked like they were making was a guy with immense power. Yeah. Who is innately good and cares about others. Uh-huh.

But doesn't believe in taking on the mantle of Superman. Doesn't believe in positioning himself as a god like that. We can't talk about Man of Steel. Just for the listeners at home, David is getting more upset. We gotta talk about the actual movie we're here to talk about. Right.

Man of Steel isn't great. Nonetheless, they sign up Zack Snyder for a sequel. They sign up Henry Cavill for a sequel. No, but here's the thing. They were like, we're going to make Man of Steel 2. The day before Comic-Con, the DC panel, they were like, what are we going to fucking do? I don't know if people want Man of Steel 2. That's what I've heard. So at

Comic-Con, like, three years ago, like, almost. It was 2013. A month after Man of Steel had come out. It was right after Man of Steel. Glad y'all like Man of Steel or whatever. We got a sequel coming out. It's really early. We want to announce the title of the sequel, which we've got, or whatever.

It plays a little real. He had actor Harry Lennox come out and read an excerpt from The Dark Knight Returns. Yeah, and they had like... The logo. And there had always been this chat of like, what are they going to do with Batman? The Nolan movies are done. They need a new Batman movie. So I think DC was just like? The Nolan movies are done. They need, like, a new Batman movie. So I think DC was just like...

The Nolan movies are done as of a year ago at that point. And DC's just like, let's just do it. Batman versus Superman, which was an idea they had had before the Nolan movies. Yes. Wolfgang Peterson was going to make it. Colin Farrell was going to be Batman. I love Colin Farrell. I love him to death.

He'd be a horrible Batman. Terrible. Anyway. So, and then they announced, like, Ben Affleck's going to be in it. Bad Flack. And he's going to be older. And then they're like, oh,

you know what? Wonder Woman's going to be in it. Oh. Gal Gadot, or however you say her name. Gal Gadot. Gal Gadot from, from the Furious movies.

And then they're like, and Cyborg. And you're like, wait, what the fuck's going on in this movie? And they're like, yeah, yeah,

yeah. And Holly Hunter's in it. They just start kind of announcing a lot of stuff. And then DC announces. And you're like, this is all going to be in one movie? DC announces this super aggressive slate coming between 2016 and 2020. So basically within one movie, they are trying to do what Marvel did in five movies. Yes.

You know, Marvel did it over Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, Thor, Captain America, Avengers. You know,

built out this world. Right. They started adding, Batman versus Superman is going to do it all at once. Like, remember,

everyone's going to be in it. They're just going to get it all started. Like, boom, let's go. Remember that solo one-off movie

that you guys weren't that crazy about? Yeah, remember that movie that was badly received and not a huge hit? They're like, they're not're not doubling down it's like they're at the blackjack table and they're betting like their children's future right a cyborg movie coming in 2020 yeah so the official slate is suicide squad which is out in july right june yeah uh august sorry yeah i got

boy uh wonder woman which is out next june yeah 2017 justice league, which is out next June. Yeah. 2017. Justice League 1, which is out in November. Aquaman in July 2018. Untitled film in October 2018. Okay. Which might be a Batman movie.

Yeah. Which Affleck would write and direct is the theory at this point. Shazam in 2019. I believe with The Rock. Justice League Part 2 in June 2019. Yeah. Untitled film. So they have two untitled films on the slate.

Who the fuck is Cyborg? He's a guy. He's a cyborg. These characters are all shitty. Well, I think- DC should give up. That's my two cents. You know, DC almost made a Justice League,

you know, Warner Bros. almost made a Justice League movie before the writers' strike. With George Miller! Yeah, but with just about the worst cast you could possibly imagine. I think half of that cast was not bad. I will say, also, Batman's great,

but all the other characters suck. I like Superman. I like Flash. I like the Flash too. I like the DC characters fine. I like Wonder Woman. I like Flash and Batman. I'm not crazy about the others.

No, they're all so literal. This is the weirdest episode we've ever done. God. This is a collection of all our worst habits in one episode. It's bad habits

and we have to just stop mansplaining fucking comic books to people. It's bad. But I mean, it is crazy, though like... Here's the thing,

we're less explaining this to explain it to you and more, like, I still can't believe it, so I have to state it out loud. It's so weird. That they went about this this way. No one wants to see a Cyborg movie. No one. Cyborg. And they, like, found a guy on Broadway and they were like, you, we're signing into a five-picture deal. You're going to be Cyborg.

What I was going to say was they clearly, you know, they're, you know, they're dumb as shit, but they're wise enough to realize like, okay, well, we should maybe have like, you know, we have Wonder Woman.

That's nice. We have, you know, because a lot of Marvel complaints that they've never made a film with a female lead. Yes. The George Miller movie

was going to have a black green lantern because there is John Stewart, who's a black green lantern. Common, who I thought was a good casting choice.

No, it was a terrible casting choice. I think it was a good No, it was literally, it was the definition of them being like, oh, we need a black guy. Who's around? Like, I mean, like Common, was a terrible casting choice. I think it was a good casting choice. No, it was literally, it was the definition of them being like, oh, we need a black guy. Who's around?

Like, I mean, like, Common, he's a bizarre choice. I think he would have done a good job. He's a bad actor. I like him as an actor. Right? He's all right. He's just not like a great actor.

He's not a great actor. I think he's good. And, uh... He was good in Run All Night. Did you see Run All Night? I didn't. So maybe, you know, maybe I just haven't judged Common fairly.

Yeah, you haven't watched the bad movies. He's good in them. But Armie Hammer was going to play Batman. That's much better than DJ Catrona as Superman. I don't even know who that is. He played Flint in G.I. Joe Retaliation, and he was a black hole of charisma. So this was the George Miller movie that didn't happen.

Megan Gale was a good choice. Ben just checked his watch. A Morton Joe A Morton Joe is gonna play Martian Manhunter. Guys, this is a garbage episode. A Morton Joe. Let's just the Snyder movie is set up as basically

like let's get the whole Justice League, you know, going in one movie. Bigger bummer. So here's this movie. Yeah. Batman v Superman Dawn of Justice. Yeah, okay, so first of all, that's the title. That's the title. First it was gonna be called Batman movie bigger bummer so here's this movie yeah batman v superman dawn of justice yeah okay so first of all that's the title that's the title first it was going to be called batman versus superman which is the like sort of like the supreme court version what what why i don't know jack snyder had some line where i said in an interview like i want to like turn everyone's

expectations at every step so you think you know what you're getting you have to look closer and realize oh this is a little different than i thought. That was his explanation of the V. Here's another thing. Some people were going to see the trailer and go Batman versus Superman. I don't know. That's not my kind of thing. And then Donna Justice fades in. They go, oh, interesting. Now I think I'll buy a ticket. Also, Justice is not Dawn in this movie. No, no. It dies. I mean, I guess at the end they're like, maybe we should have Justice League and Wonder Woman's like,

I don't know. He goes like, you still have that thumb drive with the YouTube videos of some other people? This movie is so bad. And like, everything about this movie

doesn't work. Now, there's an important element that we need to set up. The Poet Laureate and I went to see this film together. Yes. Now, I unfortunately did not join them.

I really wanted to. We talked about it. I went to a critic screening with Katie Rich. Past guest was sitting with me and we had a grand old time when the Flash showed up, which is what,

about an hour in? Somewhere around there? Yeah, this was also like two hours and 45 minutes. Oh, it's long. Yeah. When the Flash showed up, talking about,

oh, Superman maybe really is bad or whatever. He's wearing a robot suit that rips off to reveal maybe a Flash suit underneath. Oh off to reveal maybe a flashlight underneath. Oh, that was the flash. Yeah, there you go. There you go.

There you go. That's the kind of reaction people had. The only major reaction in the whole film was to that scene when it was over. Everyone just went like... Like, I don't know how else to describe it. And let's set up once again... That's when he lost us.

I'll put it that way. That scene is a dream in a dream of Batman in the future wearing a duster and goggles. Yep. Fist fighting parademons. Yeah, he's fist fighting

basically dragonfly cops. I don't know how else to describe it. And like guys dressed in like Superman armor with guns. And then Batman like, oh,

wakes up at the bat computer and is like, oh, bad dream. And then he looks over. Bad bat dream. He looks over and then the flash wakes up at the bat computer and is like bad dream and he looks over bad bat dream he looks over and then the flash comes out of like

a fucking time hole yells a bunch of shit at him including I'm too early aren't I I'm too early that is incomprehensible you can't hear it the way it's mixed

you cannot understand and yet both of these sequences seem to be designed to set up like future movies yep you know like cause like there's this

DC villain Darkseid and he's got those fucking dragonfly cops and shit. Parademons, yeah. Fucking dog shit. Stupid. I'm sorry, there's the bigger thing we were setting up.

You saw it on AMC Prime. I saw it on AMC Prime. It was very loud. The Haas and I sat down in our seats, right? I believe it's at the Union Square? Correct. Regal? Right. They've renovated the whole thing believe it's at the Union Square? Correct. Regal?

Right. They've renovated the whole thing, so it's like less seats now, but each seat's like a little console. And it's like, honey, I shrugged the audience. How much does it cost? $28. Oh my God!

It's worth every penny. And this is coming from a guy who didn't have to pay for his ticket because I bought it. But it is worth every penny. Worth every Griffin's penny. But here's the thing, when you sit down.

I thought you were going to say 25. 25 would have been totally fine. On the armrest, it says, you got an option, it says water. You have one control. On or off?

Wait, water? On or off. Me and Griffin, we like to get a little wet. We got a little wet. Got a little soaked. So we sit there in these chairs, right? Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. The moment the film starts, it opens with, because here's the thing I don't know if people know, okay? Batman's parents were killed. God. So the movie opens with Batman's parents being killed. Yeah. Played by Jeffrey Dean Morgan of Watchmen and Walking Dead.

They're killed in fetishistic throwback fashion. He's got a big porno mustache. They just saw Excalibur, but it's almost like they just saw Exorcist 3 or something. Because now Batman is like, it's 2016, so when he was a kid,

it was like Times Square porno theater for the whole fucking thing. Like, he can't have gone to the opera anymore, you know? Right. It's also shot

like a Dior commercial. It's such shit. Like, there's like a slow motion shot of her pearls like popping. Get caught on the barrel of the handgun and then like pop off.

This is done as like a montage-y thing, right? So they're intercutting between that moment in slow motion and like him at the funeral and like looking at the funeral and like looking

at the grave and then he's running and he falls into a hole and the bats are out. Oh, the bats lift him up. Okay, so from the moment this starts. This is 4DX is being described to me here. Yeah. From the jump. A little Rumblin'. Okay, so it's just like a rumble. Well, from the opening, it was like

a disorientation thing. Like it was like swaying from side to side so you feel emotionally how Bruce feels when his parents are dead. He doesn't know which way is up anymore. I swear to you. Or even like they had like an aerial shot. You kind of tip into it a little bit so you feel like you're looking down.

Okay. Alright. So it's kind of like you're on Star Wars, Star Tours or whatever but it's like it's supposed to be geared towards this particular movie. Yeah. And then some fog comes in, because it's a foggy day. So now, where does the fog come from? Is the chair shooting it at you, or is it just a general No, okay, so that's in front of the screen.

Okay. Because there's like You know what I love? Fog. Disrupt my viewing experience. But they also, like, the smog has some versatility, because it also functions as smoke. Yeah, sure. You know, so when there's like fire. If there's a fire. We're watching the movie and there's like smoke actually in front of the screen and then 3D images behind that.

So it's like a weird layering thing. Now here's another thing. Okay. Let's say Batman does a little burnout. In the Batmobile? Yeah. In the Batmobile. Smells like.

Burnt rubber. Yep. Okay, so they have smell-o-vision experience. Finally. And that's like the chair in front of you is spritzing stuff. Okay. But you don't hear anything. So you're like...

You think sometimes, especially in a movie like this. Like, there were a couple moments where you're disappointed with where, like, Batman's making eggs and you don't smell it. It was Superman makes eggs. Not bad. Sometimes they eat stuff and I'm thinking, if you're going to hit all the senses, why not just have a little, like, a... Burger pop out in your face.

Exactly. It puts it in your mouth. Or if, like, someone gets kissed in the movie. Yeah. Yeah, why doesn't the chair make out with you? Yeah. Oh, but here's the thing that happens. Sometimes the chair punches you in the back.

That? I don't like that. No, it hurt a lot. That sounds like a design flaw. There are, like, motors in the back that, like, pop out and hit you, so you feel like that. And it's, like, rumbling, and it's a lot. That sounds like a design flaw. There are like motors in the back that like pop out and hit you. So you feel like that. And it's like rumbling and it's swirling. And then the smells are like,

okay, so there's like one fight that happens near a gas station. Okay. Just for a second, go like, is there a gas leak in this? Because all the scents in the film are like, they're not like,

oh, here's a strawberry field. It's not a good smelling movie. And there's, and there's so many moments too, where it's just like, they haven't used the technology recently enough, so let's just throw something in.

Yeah, right. Or like Superman's mother is taking the garbage out before she gets kidnapped. And the whole theater just smelled like garbage. Are you serious? Yeah. I swear to you. That's insane.

There was like a very distinct garbage bag smell. But the only thing that you could control was water. And they rain on you from the top of the theater, from the ceiling. They drop rain on your head. Like a lot? Yeah. You get pretty moist. Ben and I both put our hats back on.

And during the flash scene, they plugged your ears. Two hands came out and put fingers in your ears. It was great. I had a blast. So you would recommend 4DX experience. $28. $28. So are you going to see The Jungle Book in 4DX?

By the time this episode comes out, people will have seen it. I probably will have seen it four times. Jesus. 4DX times? 4DX times. When you say four times, did you see it once in 4DX? I think I'm going to see it once in 4DX because I think that might have some nice smells and I might smell some nanners. That's a better smelling movie.

Some monkey poop. Yes. Yeah. I'm convinced that's the future, though, of movies. It was fun. No, smells, rain, moving your chair, punching you, kissing your chair. What if you're just seeing like a sad indie know, two people who can't get along? I think Hello, My Name is Doris is playing in 40X now.

Yeah, it's in 40X right now. Yeah, so during any time it's awkward, you get punched in the back. It was, I mean, it was an interesting movie to experience that technology for the first time. Because like on one hand, it wasn't taking anything away from the movie. Right. On the other hand, it's sort of a terrible movie to watch with that technology because the movie's two hours and 45 minutes sure you get like battered i remember actually something that surprised me is um you couldn't smell eisenberg's emoting no but um it's a great transition because like that you you

could rant for an hour about a thing this movie fucked up and not even get to like Jesse Eisenberg's performance, which is a real problem. Or like the interrogation of all the other Justice League people, which is like a real problem. Can I talk about the Aquaman thing? Because I think that. Why do you want to? Okay, go ahead. Because I think. Jason Momoa.

Momoa? I think it's a microcosm of everything the movie does wrong. I agree. Yeah. Okay. So Jason Momoa, he was cast as Aquaman. He's from Game of Thrones. He's a great actor. I love him. Everyone always makes fun

of Aquaman. That's the reason why he was the subject. He's a lame, power jacked fish. Right. But the idea is he's kind of a herb. Yeah, he's kind of a narc. He's like an underwater narc. Underwater narc. Yeah. He's like a jabroni. So Snyder pushed that way further. Sure. And he was like,

he's gonna be fucking like badass warrior guy, right? Which I get. I get it. Tribal tattoos. He's got a trident. He's covered in tattoos. Right. Okay. They reveal him early on. They cast him early. Like before the film started filming. Yes. Yes. Yes. They were like, here's what

Aquaman looks like. Yes. He's all over the merchandise. Right. There's a ton of Aquaman shit out there. Fair enough. Like multiple t-shirts. Yes. He's all over the merchandise. Right. There's a ton of Aquaman shit out there. Fair enough. Like multiple t-shirts. Various toys in different sizes. They look at video files. No, not they.

Just Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman looks at video files. On her computer, on her Mac. Stolen from a thumb drive. Correct. Where there are different folders. Yeah, all branded by Lex Luthor. Lex Luthor found these people.

He's been searching out superhumans. Named them and put logos, like designed logos. Yeah's been searching out superhumans, named them, and put logos, like designed logos, for each of the folders, right? He clicks on the Aquaman folder, and this is the third of four videos we're watching in this sequence, right? We're watching, like, and we just... Sure.

You watch, like, Flash, like a really fun Flash video at the start of, like, a website, like we talked about last week. Right. Like, the Flash they hear. Yeah, it wasn't a Flash intro intro it was a video of the flash trying to stop a robbery at a convenience do you remember when batman watches videos of wonder woman and it's literally just her withdrawing money from an atm yep great because literally it's like the movie's like oh fuck we were gonna have aquaman yep yep ah damn it Ah, damn it. Yeah. Okay, well, all right. Can we just... And they just sit down and they're like,

Wonder Woman opens a YouTube video. Aquaman is there. So there is literally one shot. Literally, like, they just threw him in the water and they were like, just hold your breath, okay? We haven't figured out, like, the breathing apparatus yet. His cheeks are, like, ballooning up.

No, he's holding his breath. He's holding his breath. Like, visibly holding his breath. And it's a 15-second shot. You see him pop up and like stick his trident out and the guy backs away. And it's like that's...

You couldn't even make him breathe properly. You put so much thought into designing the character to appear for one shot to merchandise this much and no one stopped and went like, that's the number one thing you gotta pull off. Your point is made. Let's move on. I'm stealing an observation from Devin Ferracci like, that's the number one thing you got to pull off. Your point is made. Let's move on.

I'm stealing an observation from Devin Faraci here. But in the Flash video, it's like he's in a convenience store. He sees a guy take out a gun, try to rob the guy. And then suddenly the lights break. He damages the store trying to stop the guy. Is that what the Flash is going to do anytime he fucking walks anywhere, runs anywhere? And Devin Faraci's point was like, so the the guy was maybe gonna steal like 80 bucks from the register and now he's gonna

cost like The Flash has destroyed this convenience store Superman takes off I mean it's like a sonic boom is created and like people

should basically be like blasted 10 feet away Zack Snyder's like very obsessed with it each moment being like what's the coolest thing a character could do

right now with no thought of like what actually that... The fucking cyborg thing where Joe Morton... So I've got a torso over here. I don't know what to do about him. I'll check back in. Cut. And he's like, well, I have this

weird glowing black box. What would happen if I... And then he turns into a cyborg and then you cut away and Wonder Woman's just like, huh. The Aquaman thing is 15 seconds. The cyborg scene then you cut away and Wonder Woman's just like, huh. The Aquaman thing is 15 seconds. The cyborg scene is like three minutes long. It's like a couple minutes, yeah.

It's like a couple minutes of like the great Joe Morton having like vignettes. Good actor, good actor. Like several different beats. Where he has an alien box and he turns a torso into a cyborg.

A mother box, yeah. Yeah. Fuck this movie. That's just another thing that happens in the movie that's really a problem. Everything's wrong with the movie. It's wrong on a micro happens in the movie that's really a problem. Everything's wrong with the movie. It's wrong on a micro level and a macro level.

Correct. Yeah. I just want to say this. All right. It's not your fault, Ben Affleck. No. That was the first thing Ben said when the lights went off. It's not your fault.

Now, he's doing a Good Will Hunting reference. Ben did that five times in a row the second the movie ended. Sounds fun. The other thing that happened was he went, I can't believe there wasn't anything after the credits. And I went, I can't because it was a fucking two and a half the second the movie ended. Sounds fun. The other thing that happened was he went, I can't believe there wasn't anything after the credits. And I went, I can't, because it was a fucking two and a half hours of after credits scenes.

Forget it. Everything that happens in the movie feels like something that would happen after the credits of another movie. Okay, so the movie's called Batman v Superman. I'm sorry, Batman v Superman, Don of Justice. Yeah, so I'll just, can I just, the opening scene flashes back to Man of Steel,

but it's told from Bruce Wayne's perspective as he, like, rushes to Metropolis to try and, like, rescue his employees because they have an office, I guess. And it's, yes, it's this sort of heavily overdone kind of 9-11-y. It's evocative imagery, but it's well done. It's very well done. Yeah. And, like, it's setting, it's throwing down this marker of, like, okay, here's where this

animus would come from. Yes. Here's how he's upset. I think it's throwing down this marker of like, okay, here's where this animus would come from. Here's how he's upset. I think it's great. I think it's really, really well done. It's unsettling. That actually it's Batman, Ben Affleck, Bruce Wayne, looking up at his building, and lasers are coming through it from one side.

Yes, and it perfectly matches what was happening in Man of Steel. Well, I don't even care about whether or not it matches it. But it's just a very scary image because you never see superhero action from that side. No, but no, it's cool. But it's just a very scary image because you never see superhero action from that side. No, exactly. That's what I liked about it. And there's just a brief shot

where he sees, like, in the distance, like a tiny Superman figure fighting a tiny Zod. Right. Like, flying away. But, you know. It's scary?

It's just this idea that, like, this must have been terrifying, right? Yeah. And yes, it's the movie trying to redress the balance after Man of Steel was maybe a little too,

you know, gleeful about blowing up a city. But it also immediately sets up good stakes. I get why Batman would be scared of this guy. That's your movie. Great. Just keep. Here's what you don't have. Toe the company line.

Just do follow that lead. And, you know, then maybe you can have this movie. Here's what the movie then introduces. Okay. movie here's what the movie then introduces okay lex luther played by jesse eisenberg is like a tech ceo type who inexplicably wants to use kryptonite to destroy superman but he wants batman to do it so he manipulates the both of them he hates having like a fight his father used to beat him yeah sure whatever they like try to sprinkle in some sort of nonsensical but like there's no attempt to really make any sense of his motivation holly hunter is a Democratic senator who has more sway than any senator of the last 25 years.

Holly Hunter is a senator who I guess like is the chair of the Superman committee. So she has to like interact with Lex Luthor about the kryptonite. She's around. He wants to import kryptonite and he needs her permission. So there's that. Scoot McNary. Yes. The great Scoot McNary.

One of our finest character actors. Love Scoot. Love Scoot. Love Scoot. He's that. Scoot McNary. Yes. The great Scoot McNary. One of our finest character actors. Love Scoot, love Scoot, love Scoot. He's great. He plays a former Wayne employee who loses his legs. What? What are you just talking about? In the Superman incident. And so he's mad about that.

Yeah. And so Bruce has got some guilt about that. And he keeps on changing who he's mad at about it. Whatever. At first he's very grateful that Bruce Wayne saves him. But like also Lex kind of implies that maybe he wrote all of those like mash notes to him so who knows. Who knows.

You got Lois Lane. She oh Jesus. There's that thing where she's in Africa for some reason. With Jimmy Olsen. With Jimmy Olsen who is a CIA agent and is executed off screen. After two lines of dialogue. Played by Michael Cassidy. This movie is so bad.

Can I just restate something quickly? Academy Award winner, Ben Affleck. Oh my God. Academy Award winner, Holly Hunter. Five-time Academy Award nominee, Amy Adams. And you've got Eisenberg. Academy Award nominee, Jesse Eisenberg. Academy Award nominee, Lawrence Fishburne. Academy Award winner, Amy Adams. And you've got Eisenberg. Academy Award nominee, Jesse Eisenberg. Academy Award nominee, Lawrence Fishburne.

Academy Award winner, Jeremy Irons. Academy Award nominee, Michael Shannon as a corpse. Nobel Peace Prize winner, Scoot McNary. Neil deGrasse Tyson. Nancy Grace. Charlie Rose. Aqua Man. Dooms Day.

Oh, my God. Anyway, yeah. There's this idea. What's your point? Is it just that all these people are in this movie? You know who was cut out of this movie? Jenna Malone was playing Batgirl. As Batgirl.

Cut out entirely. As the first Batgirl, right? As Oracle. She was going to be post-paralysis Barbara Gordon as Oracle. So there's all this stuff it's working with. It's got this idea that Batman's old and haunted by these past crimes the Joker brought on him or something. But they never say that. Robin's been killed.

They just have a brief shot of a suit that only nerds will realize, oh, that might be supposed to be Robin's suit. Doesn't look like it. It's like a sepia-toned version of Robin's suit. With Joker graffiti all over it. That says, ha, ha, ha. Why wouldman keep this suit throw that out immediately oh my god that's the creepiest thing in the world and he would fucking jake gyllenhaal demolition that shit so quickly i don't even want to talk about demolition i only brought it up because i want

to see how angry you'd get if i brought it up no the wayne manor has been burned down like it's just like a burned husk yeah and again we again, we assume like, oh, something bad happened there. We don't know what. So he lives in Tim Allen's house from Galaxy Quest. It's like a glass house. I swear to you, I think it might be. Oh, that is, you nailed it. I think it might be the exact same location.

I honestly think. You know, sure, sure. It's a very specific all glass house of a certain rectangular shape on the Hollywood Hills. Okay, all right. Surrounded by a pool. All right, my God. Yeah, no, I mean, yes, that's where he lives. Yeah.

And Alfred is kind of just like a cranky guy I've been holding on to that reference for three weeks. It was great. Alfred is a cranky guy whose only interest in this movie is Bruce Wayne settling down with a nice lady and having a baby. He has no interest in him being Batman. I do think it's the only fully

successful performance of the film. Irons is great. He's great. Uh, Jeremy Irons is never bad. He's great. I do think it's the only fully successful performance of the film. Irons is great. He's great. Jeremy Irons is never bad. He's great. I love him. Yeah. I think Affleck's pretty good. I think Affleck's solid.

He's handed like a poop sandwich. He's solid. It's a decent movie star performance. It's not a great piece of action, but it's a decent movie star performance. I think that Henry Cavill, who I thought was okay in Man of Steel, but was not like that.

He was fine. He was okay. He was fine. His performance in this movie is ruinously bad and it's not being talked about enough not only is his superman a total vacuum of charisma correct his clark kent is the craziest take on that character i've ever seen so i mean if you remember like the reeve clark kent is the reason the movie works in my opinion i mean everything else is great too but his clark is, like, really distinguished from the Superman.

Right. Is really nerdy and, like, goofy in the right ways and, like, kind of, you know, it's great, right? Yes. Brandon Routh's performance was a decent cover band. It was okay. Yeah, it was okay. He did a good cover band approximation.

He's sweet. He sort of leans on his sweetness. He's got the good qualities. He's not quite as goofy or whatever, but it's fine. He's a little hamstrung by having to match Reeves so closely. In this movie, Henry Cavill's

whole performance is basically, he puts on big, big glasses. Yeah. And he's just like, I did it, right? I'm Clark Kent now? That's what I do, right? And he spends the whole movie whining at Perry that he should be allowed to write about Batman, which in the context of this movie is

a 20-year-old story. Literally, he's like, we have to talk about Batman. And Perry never says what he should say. He's like, dude, Batman's old. We know. We know. We wrote lots of stories about Batman. That's like the main arts and culture writer of the New York Times only wanting to cover

Steve Guttenberg. But he has no- Yes, ostensibly he's still around, but that's not the guy we're talking about right now. He has no version of Clark Kent. There's nothing. No, there's no character. He's just standing there.

There's no characterization. There's nothing and... Also, that's clearly Superman. It's very obvious. And like, it has... Everyone always makes that joke like, oh, how does nobody tell the... But you can do it right.

And they do it the opposite of right. I think Reeve kills that, where you're like, oh, how does nobody tell the... But you can do it right. And they do it the opposite of right. I think Reeve kills that. Where you're like, yes, they do look identical, but these two guys behave so differently. It's so good. The thing where everyone goes like, Clark Kent couldn't be Superman. He's an idiot. Yes. He's a bumbling fool.

Exactly. You know, like that whole vibe is what you need. Amy Adams now lives with Clark Kent. Yeah, and she knows he's Superman. That happened in Man of Steel right they fuck in a bathtub that is that scene

made me want to rip my skin off I swear to god it was like the least sexy like that scene's supposed to be intimate and cute

he gets she's in the bathtub right and Snyder's playing this whole trick where he's like you're not gonna see Amy Adams naked

but oh the water's gonna to move around. He gets in the bathtub with his clothes on. Fully dressed. What is the fucking matter with you? Fully dressed. The water goes everywhere. I hated the whole thing. I would have dumped him on the spot. I would just get out of his dump.

That's like minute 18 of the film. It's the worst. And it's after he rescues her from this horrible situation in a made-up African country. Yes. Can I throw out another thing here? For which Superman is held responsible even though everyone in that situation is killed with bullets.

So we're supposed to believe that people believe that Superman got a gun and flew over to Africa to shoot people for no reason? Okay, faint praise. Sorry, I'm really upset. No, I know. You're definitely getting there. I said I didn't want to just rag on this movie, but now that's all we're doing. Faint Praise Award.

And this award is grandfathered in from Man of Steel. I like that Lois Lane's significantly older than Superman. Interesting. She's like 10 years older. I mean, I think you're right. As an actor to actor, there's 10 years between the two of them. That's a very rare occurrence in films, right?

Sure. And especially because they don't comment on it at all. Cavill is 32 and Adams is 41. Nine years difference between the two of them. That's substantial, right? Absolutely. I like it a lot. I think Amy Adams is a great actress. She's given nothing to do in this film. I think Amy Adams is a good actor, but I don't think she's particularly good in this movie. Although I think

she nails the line, it's his mother's name. Yeah. I actually think she did a great job, even though that scene obviously is a tough sell. I actually thought, I was very frustrated with how her character was written. We'll get on to that. Oh, boy. There's so many things. Wait, we still have

to talk about Watchmen 2? What are we doing? We're not going to talk about Watchmen. Jesus. Can we start calling ourselves the two Marthas instead of the two friends? Hashtag the two friends. Ben, you're called

Kylo Ben. I couldn't think of one. We forgot about that bit. General Ben. Ben and Rolls-On. Watch Ben. Ben rolls on. Wash Ben. I like that. Because I'm the peeper, but now it's turned back on me.

Oh, my God. We have 30 minutes. We have 30 minutes. I'm looking at the clock. We've been recording for 30 minutes? Oh, no. Are you crazy? No.

We've got 30 minutes left. Okay. Before we got kind of the hard out, I think. Oh, gotcha. Anyway. Oh, boy. This is got kind of the heart out, I think. Oh, gotcha. Anyway. Oh, boy. This is the thing I want to say, okay? I think that character's horribly written in this film.

Lois? Yeah. You're talking about? Yeah. I think she just kind of has to show up and do her job. She's not great. She has a couple good moments. Yeah.

I think she was actually pretty good Man of Steel. Once again, with a not well-written character. She has the same problem, which is that, unfortunately, you know, which is kind of a Lois Lane problem. You know, she kind of just has to be a little stupid to get into a bad situation. And then the movie kind of has to deal with that. And it's just a little annoying. I mean, I could talk for five hours about my interpretation

of the character from the trailer and why I thought they were going to get it right, but I'm not going to. This is what I'll say. I'm very glad to hear that. This is what I'll say. Yeah. The thing that really bites them in the ass about the Amy Adams casting is this movie is so centered around the mothers, right?

They latch onto this idea where you go, oh, I wonder why someone didn't think of this sooner. Because no one gives a shit, right? Both Batman and Superman. To say they latch onto this idea is a little strong. It's more like they came upon that idea and they pushed a whole bunch of chips onto it really quickly.

But don't you think, okay, these two characters have existed for 70 plus years, right? Longer, yeah. I think Batman just hit 75. Superman's like 80 now, right?

Totally, totally. They both have always had mothers named Martha. Yeah. And no one ever made anything of it because who cares? No, I mean,

one, Batman's mother is not a character. Right, she's dead. She's dead. She is called Martha Kent. Superman's mother is called Martha, but a lot of times they just call her like Ma or whatever, like Ma Kent. Especially in like the older comics. So, you know, yeah, it's not really a thing. But I guess somebody, be it Goyer, be it Snyder, I don't know who, hit on this as like, oh, that's what these two have in common.

I know why they fight. That's their common ground. And that's why they stopped fighting. Because they both have moms with the same name. Now, I'm going to say something. Because this movie, I think the Martha thing is maybe the most mocked thing in this movie. Yeah. But I just want to point out this thing quickly that I was building up to.

Diane Lane is 52 years old. No, this has been pointed out on Twitter, which is the same age as Robert Downey Jr., by the way. Oh, oh, oh, sure. But not just that.

Sure. There are scenes where Lois, Martha, and Superman are all in the same shot. Mm. And Amy Adams,

because Henry Cavill is playing so much as a petulant little child, Uh-huh. like a brat, Uh-huh brat her only way to play against him is to be maternal she's very maternal because she's so much more intelligent sophisticated than he is sure that when the mom shows up and you're like there's 10 years between

but I mean Diane Lane is playing older but that's what's so gross is that like Diane Lane's character should be 70 yeah because in Man of Steel when they show the flashbacks to him as a child she's playing like late 40s who adopted a kid yeah and then they age her up and have her do like winona rider old lady like edward scissorhands like oh superman it is sort of stuff so their moments are all three of them on screen and it's like this is fucking it's weird like it's it's like it's weird well it's i think it's because snyder makes these decisions in a vacuum. Yes. The Martha thing. We're just saying the most mocked element. I think there's a world in which it could work.

I do too. I mean, it doesn't really work in the movie. Yeah. I think there's a world in which that moment can make sense. It doesn't have to be that their names are both martha but just the idea that he's calling out for his mother or whatever would be enough to get batman's head right and be like oh this is a person not like an alien god agree and i think that's what they should have concentrated on rather than that scene where you know batman eventually fights superman he's going to kill him with a kryptonite spear the

fight lasts for five minutes? Yeah, whatever. I mean, how long could it possibly last? It happens an hour and a half into the movie. Longer. Yeah, hour 45. We have a five minute fight. And then, just in case you didn't get it, Snyder flashes back to the fucking death scene.

And Jeffrey Dean Morgan is the dad going, Martha! As if we didn't get it! Who was he? Who's the guy in the mountain? Kevin Costner. Yeah, what was that? That's Superman's dad.

Academy Award winner Kevin Costner. What did he go to? His old planet? He died. He got sucked up by a tornado in the previous film

and then in this one, Superman just, was that supposed to be a dream sequence again? There's a lot of dream sequences. Yeah, it's a dream sequence. What else is it going to be? Because also, then there's

that leaky mausoleum scene. The Fortress of Solitude, where Jesse Eisenberg puts Michael Shannon into the bath. No, he's talking about when Batman has a dream in which he goes to the mausoleum, and then the mausoleum is bleeding, and then an inexplicable giant bat monster pops out of the thing.

Never explained, never touched on, doesn't mean anything. So there are literally bleeding and then like an inexplicable giant bat monster pops out of the thing never explained never touched on doesn't mean anything so there are literally five dream sequences there's so many dream sequences that's insanity it's crazy especially in a movie that's too long and has a lot of stuff to do can we talk about wonder woman for a little bit yeah i mean she's in it she's a featured extra for the first hour and a half of the yeah gal gadot is around and she's like wearing nice dresses and sort of rubbing shoulders with Bruce Wayne and she's also some kind of super spy.

But given very little attention. She's at parties, she gets some money shots, there's a three line exchange where Bruce Wayne tries to flirt with her and she's like, not like me. Okay, then two hours, 15 minutes into the film. She watches some YouTube videos. She's on a turkey. Oh, earlier than that,

she watches the YouTube videos, right? No, no. Yes. And she realizes the Batman knows who she is. Right, so she gets on a plane. Oh, because she said she was looking for a photo. Yeah. That's why she was at Lex Luthor.

The photo is her at Chris Pine in 1918. She said the photo belonged to her grandmother, and he said, that's not the photo. It doesn't belong to you. It is you. Fuck you. Whatever.

Stupid. Dumb. But then two hours, 15 minutes into the film, Wonder Woman is wearing a smart leather jacket. She is boarding a Turkish Airlines flight. Uh-huh. They have live TV on the backs of the seats. Yeah.

Which they're always playing live TV before the plane takes off. We always know. They're always playing the news on the chairs before the flight takes off. She sees on the news Doomsday, who we'll get to in a second, fighting Batman and Superman, and then just looks and is like, fuck, I'm going to have to get off this plane.

I'm going to have to schedule another fight. And then the next thing you know, she's on the battleground, fully dressed, and then she just fights a bunch. The implication is that she was in hiding or in retirement or something and she comes out. She's been around for like a long time. Yeah. Yeah.

She says something like, I left this humans behind or whatever. Yeah. Right. Has she always been called Wonder Woman? Well, she's not identified as Wonder Woman. Yeah. Yeah. She'll get a movie to explain all that stuff.

Next summer. They also, her and Superman never speak to each other no i guess they kind of have a joint conversation right for a second there where there's the three of them lined up yeah and she's like i've killed things from not of this world before yeah uh she does some cool fighting stuff but it's yeah she's kind of cool we have no idea who she is like yeah we just know she's wonder woman and i mean it doesn't make a lot of sense that she showed up for this fight and not the General Zod fight, but whatever.

Agreed. So let's talk about the Doomsday thing. So Lex Luthor's in this movie. A bunch. Jesse Eisenberg, he's obviously just being asked, like,

do your thing. Yeah. And he's bad. He is bad. I guess. His lines are so bad and so overwritten that I don't know who could have done a good job here. Agreed.

What's the reasoning? We don't know. Something about God and stuff? So I read something really interesting. Apparently, in the first draft of this script, Brainiac was in it. Yes. And the implication was that Brainiac was controlling Lex Luthor. Yeah. That gave him the pieces, pointed him in the right direction. Brainiac is in it. Yes. And the implication was that Brainiac was controlling Lex Luthor.

Yeah. That gave him the pieces, pointed him in the right direction. Brainiac is like a super... See, that makes sense. Right? Yeah. And now Lex Luthor's

inexplicable behavior was explained by the fact that you would reveal at a certain point. That makes... Brainiac was masterminding the whole thing, was using Lex Luthor as a pawn,

was putting the pieces on the board, right? That makes no sense. It makes more sense than what we got. No, no. You don't have a movie with Brainiac and Lex Luthor. That makes no fucking sense. Well, I think they-

And Lex Luthor's supposed to be his own character with his own motivations. Why don't you just write that? Write a good Lex Luthor character. I think they came to that realization, and so they cut Brainiac out of the movie, but then didn't change Lex Luthor's behavior at all. No. So Lex Luthor still seems- He grows slowly madder.

Right. And there's like scenes where he's like giving a speech and he kind of like trails off and goes a little crazy. And I guess the implication is he's going crazy. Why? We don't know. Why does he want Batman to fight Superman? We don't know.

He never says anything about Batman. He doesn't say anything about having a problem with Batman. Ever in the movie. He just goes, hmm, a lot. Hmm. He does that. Hmm. He also finds General Zod's crashed ship.

Yeah. And he gets into what I can only describe as a pit of poop water. Right? Correct. He bathes in the toilet. He cuts his hand. Cuts his hand and bleeds into it. And this creates what I can only describe

as a toilet monster right? it looks like a bunch of mud with eyes right? yeah I'm not

I'm not even trying to be like I don't know how else you describe Doomsday in this movie it looks like the poop monster from Dogma like the literal shit demon

he is the poop monster yes he's a shit demon and he's doing all this while also elaborately getting Batman and Superman to fight each other. Right. Which you don't

understand why he's doing that. Yeah. And yet he also has this backup plan of like, well, if Batman doesn't kill Superman in a really specific way, I'll just unleash this aberration. But I think he also wants Batman dead. He hates superheroes. Why? Why? Why? Why?

I think I'm done. What about the smells, though? Yeah, I did like the smells, but the more we talk about this, the more mad I get. Wait, were you into it more at the time? Like, into the movie more? What? No. No, no. I'm just into this recording, but I think I just wanted to let the audience know I've hit my wall. You've hit your wall.

Yeah. I mean, we've basically hit the wall, because the doomsday thing, he shows up. I mean, what is he? He's just a mud monster, and they just have to kill him. He has no personality. He just roars and shoots lasers. And the way they kill him is by Superman sacrificing himself. Wow, I wonder if that's going to stick. You know, I've rarely seen an ending with less, like, emotional weight

to it, because, like, with the whole fucking thing, we all know you're trying to make 18 more of these movies. Superman dies at the end. Oh, wow. I wonder if Superman's gonna come back to life in Justice League or not. The two Justice League movies you're making. I mean, I think he's gonna be the bad guy.

Oh, God. Are you kidding me? Don't you think so? I don't know. That's what the dream sequence implied to me. He's gonna come back as Bizarro. But he's be the bad guy. Oh, God. Are you kidding me? Don't you think so? I don't know. That's what the dream sequence implied to me. He's going to come back as Bizarro. But he's already the bad guy. Yeah. He is already the bad guy.

Yeah, you know, I don't know. I mean, the idea of this film is that, like, they're supposed to be, like, opposite sides of the coin. They're not. They're both dicks.

They're both dicks in this film. The thing is, like, Superman is kind of a dick in just, like, the wrong way. They just got Superman wrong where it's this idea that you mentioned about Man of Steel where it's like he's saying, should I even be Superman? Do I even owe anything to these people?

It makes no sense. The whole point of Superman is that he wants to be Superman. It doesn't work if he doesn't want to be Superman. But here's what I think could be interesting. Oh, boy. That he wants to do what Superman does. He doesn't know if he wants to be quote unquote Superman. Do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, but he doesn't seem to want to do the first thing. Well, that's where they fuck it up. Okay, fine. But I think there's an interesting movie and Superman is naturally drawn to saving people and using his powers for good, but he doesn't want to be seen. He doesn't want the expectations.

He doesn't want to scare people, you know? Yeah. I like that idea. If he's like fucking Ron Perlman's Beauty and the Beast, you know, like hiding under the sewers and coming out at night and just like, you know, he has to slowly learn to take on the responsibility and the iconography and whatever. That's not what this movie does. He's just a brat.

No, he doesn't do anything. He's angry all the time. He's a little bit of a brat. Doesn't figure out that he's literally just the stupidest shit is like manipulating him. He brands people. He like. That makes no sense. None of it makes sense.

He does like hot iron batarangs on their chest he does like they'll be murdered at one point like he does like he's like throwing tires around yeah he's an idiot he's a dumb fucking idiot and he's gonna kill superman who's literally like superman who like rescues people and shit he's gonna kill him for no reason yeah except scoop mcnary sent him a mean postcard. Can we talk about my favorite aspect of the movie? It's not my favorite aspect. It's the aspect I'm most fascinated by.

What? Does Holly Hunter drink Lex Luthor's pee? No. Everyone was hung up on that scene where she gets blown up by Scoot McNary, Scoot McNary, Scoot McNary, Scoot McNary. And gets blown up by Scoot McNary Scoot McNary Scoot McNary Scoot McNary

and his scooter his Scooter McNary yeah and his Scooter McNary he's got a bomb chair he's got a bomb chair I had two questions one do you think he knows there's a bomb

in his chair most people said no I said yes I think no but also what I don't know you know like two she has a

jar of piss okay she earlier in the film says I don't know. You know, like. Two, she has a jar of piss. Okay, she earlier in the film says. I don't want to talk about it. You can't hand me a, just because you put a label that says grandma sweet peach tea on a jar of piss doesn't make it sweet peach. To her credit, she's a little better than you just did. Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, I'm not as good an actor as Holly. Then she's in the Senate hearing. She like takes a sip of something right yeah and then she realizes it's from like she looks over

it's a mason jar that says grandma sweet peach tea and this tips her off to the fact that lex luther is not there and gonna blow up congress which she does now there's like 10 seconds destroys the capitol building in this movie but i just want to describe how this moment plays out right she's like talking she's on her a game she makes a speech she takes a sip she like looks over suspiciously to the mason jar she turns it around she sees the label then she looks at lex luther's seat and realizes he's not there and then freaks out right no she doesn't freak out. She quietly goes like, Yeah, she could say,

Uh-oh, something's wrong. Everybody leave the building. Uh-oh, uh-oh, like bad things. Piss jar, piss jar. But there's like this silent panic in her eyes, right? Yeah, yeah. This sequence goes on for maybe 15 seconds between when she turns the jar around.

It goes on for like 15 hours. Okay. I thought, I didn't get that the idea was, oh, he's about to bomb the building. I was like, this scene is now just her freaking out because she drank pee. She drank some piss. I thought that's her slow burn reaction was, I just drank pee pee. I think that it's metaphorical.

I think he just like put a jar of iced tea on her desk. But maybe I'm wrong and maybe it's real pee. We're going to have to wait for like the director's commentary to get that one solved, I think. Justice League is supposed to start filming in like six weeks. No, two weeks. Jesus Christ. This is the thing the thing and it's like so this movie is a not great movie yeah i don't like it and it opened to a very healthy like 170 million dollars at the box office yeah and then it dropped off very steep you know like a% drop off. It's collected about $280. It's collected like a lot

worldwide, so it's already made like $750 million. It's down to $20 million for this weekend that we're recording, which is this third weekend, which means next weekend it'll be below $10. So it's not a big hit, but it is a big hit. It cost $350 million by most accounts. Really? I saw $250. You saw

$350? I mean, I heard $350. You also have to factor in I heard $350 million by most accounts. Really? I saw $250. You saw $350? I mean, I heard $350. You also have to factor in the marketing. I heard $500 million including marketing. Which means at the very least they'd need to make a billion dollars to break even. I think they were hoping to make about a billion dollars, and I think they will if you include worldwide, which is fine. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but there's something around there. But no one likes it. The movie, more importantly, yeah, I would think,

has kind of already vanished from the conversation. Yeah. It wasn't a critical success at all. No. DC has, it's too late. Warner Brothers has set great, like, crazy things in motion. Everyone is locked in for all of these movies. So their only hope now is that the other movies are just better.

Right. And maybe they can pull that off like maybe suicide squad's okay i don't know it doesn't look great yeah you know maybe it's a better like maybe the aquaman movie directed by james wan maybe that'll be fun wonder woman i think has the best shot of any wonder woman's gonna have a lot of goodwill just because people want to see a wonder woman movie but i think the other problem is like you know we're talking about uh johnavs, right? Good, solid director.

Iron Man 1 came in with like a sensibility. Yes. But not an overwhelming style. Yeah. It's like a slick piece of entertainment with a really fun vibe to it. But Zack Snyder just established like this is what the visual palette is. This is what the dramatic tenor of these films are. You know?

Yeah. This is this. This is that like he's set so much so specifically in motion right now that all the films are gonna have such a hard time not like the best chance any of these films have to succeed is to distance themselves away from this movie as much as possible which is going to be so confusing like their best shot is to essentially do what deadpool did to x-men origins which is be like just don't even don't even fucking pretend you haven't seen these characters already you know so i thought deadpool was awful to them but yeah i know i know i'm saying in relation to how

you treat it because it's like do we really want to see a flash movie that's like spawning out of the flash's two appearances in this film. Yeah. But I just like... No, I mean... I just don't understand. Can we immediately reset and start over, you know? I don't know. I don't know, David. But they're in trouble.

Or not. Maybe they're not. I don't know. I don't know. But the biggest problem is what I was going off is Zack Snyder's making Justice League movies. Yeah. And I don't know what that's going to be. I donder's making justice league movie yeah um and i don't

know what that's gonna be i don't either considering how over the top and over crammed with stuff this one was yeah um boo we're really tired guys i'm so tired i don't know so we were going to talk about watchmen yeah i mean what what the fucking say i mean i think the only thing i really wanted to hit on initially david erlich was going to be on right with us and like scheduling shit and your crazy schedule messed that all up but um you know i mean i think a lot of people like sort of hit on like man of steel and the mistakes snyder made like making this movie but i think watchman in clearly informs a lot of his perspective on this movie which is basically like superheroes are these like untrustworthy like others who we cannot like rely on to to keep us safe or save the world or like even like exist.

Especially it's especially like Batman's thing through the whole movie. There's this scene where he says like if there's a 1% chance that Superman is bad, like we have to take that as an absolute certainty. Right. Which is a weird thing for Batman to say. A hundred percent. He's a 1% chance that Superman is bad, we have to take that as an absolute certainty. Right. Which is a weird thing for Batman to say. A hundred percent. He's a superhero. Right.

That's probably not the perspective a superhero would have about a superhero. Even if this superhero is more powerful. It seems like he philosophically hates these characters, but also wants to fetishize only the badass aspects of their personality. There's this scene where Superman, there's a montage of him saving people and he saves some people in a Mexican Day of the Dead celebration

and all these skeleton painted people touch him. It's awful. And then you cut to him rescuing people from a flood and he's hovering over a family

who are about to get drowned with menace. All he's gonna do is pick him up and drop him off somewhere it's supposed to be good you know when he made watchman he did an interview where he was like i think this is the superhero movie i could make this is the only superhero movie i could make because it reflects my view on superheroes i don't think i could ever do a superman movie that's funny he said that he was like i don't get that character well he doesn't really no he doesn't and i don't mean to be some like nerd who's harping on like you got superman wrong like that's okay like you

can get him wrong or you can do something different with him but they didn't really do anything in particular with him no and it's he just kind of yeah but it also feels like they stripped away all the most fundamental things because they were the things that were trickier and that could look lame if done poorly you know right like they removed all the sincerity from the character and the optimism from the character and at a time where like captain america has become a major franchise i thought that was a character they could not ever captain america was always pointing to is like yeah how do you nail someone that sincere in a modern climate like and how do you make that movie work overseas and people like love captain america now of course because i mean the first captain america movie is a wartime movie which is a great way to introduce

him is this like you know he's from an era that we don't like you know have anymore which is why i'm encouraged by wonder woman also taking place in the past totally totally but then you've got the avengers and joss whedon is like i know exactly who captain america is he's kind of like the straight arrow who like everyone bounces off of and like there's a lot of humor in that and there's also something sweet and he's like you know he's this like pole star that kind of like the straight arrow who everyone bounces off of. And there's a lot of humor in that. And there's also something sweet. And he's this pole star that kind of helps people realize the right things to fight for. Yada, yada, yada. He's perfect.

He's a sweetie pie. And that's exactly the role Superman has to play in this sort of wider universe that they're creating. But no, in this wider universe they're creating, he's this like really scary alien who might be evil. And then he dies. And then the dust rises off his coffin. The dirt. Here's the thing that really bums me out about this movie, okay? Above all else, I hate the fact that there's a movie right now with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman.

And for like children, right? I'm talking specifically like kids under like seven. Sure. Right? Yeah. 50% of them are going to be super scared by the film. Yeah. No, it's loud and intense and nasty.

And scary. And Batman's a jerk and he murders people with impunity. Yeah. He like is like a violent asshole. The people who aren't the kids who are not scared by it are just going to be bored. It's so long. Because it's fucking Holly Hunter drinking pee pee and like, you know, all these like arguments over whether or not Superman could potentially hurt people. You made like a Batman Superman Wonder Woman movie that like no kid would enjoy.

And they play the trailer for the Lego Batman movie before it. And like that's like in theory like a lark. That's like oh it's like a goofy like Batman movie. But I look at that trailer and I'm like there's a Batman in a cave. He's got like Robin and the Joker and he fights all his villains. He's got all the vehicles. Yeah that looks like Batman. That looks like

an accurate Batman movie. And I also like the fact that like grown ups would enjoy it and kids would watch it and be like yeah I like Batman. What kid's gonna walk in a Batman vs. And I also like the fact that grown-ups would enjoy it and kids would watch it and be like, yeah, I like Batman. What kid's gonna walk into Batman vs. Superman and be like, God, I love that Batman guy. He's a lot of fun to spend time with. I can relate to him as a child. But I did like

Batman a lot when I was a kid. And Superman. And I was like into darkness. I feel like almost kids sometimes respond to that more than grown-ups. But I think this is a really bland, self-serious, portentous kind of darkness

that will not appeal to kids. Well, and also, it has no grounding in anything because it doesn't have time to have any grounding because it has too much stuff to do.

The only thing that works is that first scene. Agreed. Yeah. It's a bummer. It's too bad. Bat Fleck is okay. There's a world

where that could be a decent Batman. Agreed. And I like Jeremy Irons. I like their rapport. Sure. Jeremy Irons is fucking unbeatable. That guy's always good. Oh, boy.

Well, next week we get to talk about the Wachowskis. Guys, I'm really excited about this. I'm really excited, too. You know what I'm thinking about right now? What? I just really want to shower. I just got to take a shower. I'm thinking about it.

It's a great thought. Yeah. Great thought to have. Yeah, guys, I mean, yep, we're sorry that this episode was a god-awful mess, but it was kind of funny, right?

Imports. Ben, are you even listening anymore? Nope. Oh, he's not on the mic. He's not even on the mic. Yeah, he's coming back into the room.

Hey, Ben. Is it still going? We're almost done. We're wrapping it up. We're almost done. Oh, cool, all right. Final thoughts? Yeah, final thoughts, yeah. We're wrapping it up. We're almost done. Oh, cool. All right. Yeah, final thoughts.

Yeah. I don't like it. No. Yeah. I know. And I'm jealous that you guys got to get, like, you know, water splashed on you and stuff. Yeah, that was fun. If I brought shampoo, I wouldn't have needed to take a shower. I could have just gone to a 4DX screening and wash my hair while watching batman v superman

don justin uh guys next week we're doing the wachowskis it's gonna be these superhero one-offs for us are always kind of uh they always kind of slow us down i like podcasting too here's one of our weirder episodes yeah can i just say something yeah so like very shortly after batman v superman came out and everyone was bummed out about it sure uh ben edlund creator the tick showrunner of the series i'm about to be a part of did a interview with entertainment weekly oh you got so worked up about this yeah where he said kind of offhandedly like yeah this is gonna be like a slightly different take and it might be a little darker and more. And more grounded. Yeah, more grounded.

And everyone just fucking went like, oh no, they're going to fucking do Batman versus Superman. Well, now here's the thing, Griffin. Yeah. You said everyone said that. I didn't see anyone saying that. No, I'm not plugged into the same

like avenues as you perhaps, but I didn't see a widespread disgust about this interview. I think that is... Certainly anyone who reads the interview would not think, oh God, like this is going to be a Batman v Superman thing. A bunch of

other websites made headlines, like clickbaity headlines. Right, but it's just clickbait shit. Here we go again, Tick is going to be dark and graphic. Sure. Right, right, right. And it's easy to mock. It's someone who occasionally will do it about other things. Right. Like, and it's such a trend now for everything to become like the self

serious, gritty, rebooted version of it. Unfounded. I just want to say. I'm looking forward to the tick. I'm sure it's going to be great. I think so. And I also think hopefully the reason he was saying it's going to be darker and more grounded is much in the way that the tick when the comic book was starting

it was a commentary on what was popular in superhero comics at the time. Largely Frank Miller and stuff. And the cartoon was a commentary on other superhero cartoon shows. Uh-huh. I think this series will reflect the climate. This sort of superhero franchise movie thing?

Yeah. Yeah, it's a reflection. But it is a comedy. Yeah, I'm excited. Yeah. It'll be great. Yeah. If it isn't, I'll look really stupid

for having talked about how bad this movie is. That's true. I'll look like a big old jerk Um What else final thoughts Ben final thoughts We've been doing this podcast for over a year Yeah I know right Oh yeah we passed our one year anniversary We didn't comment I think after earth is technically

The closest to a one year And I think we're either this is like This is 52 I think This might, either this is like, this is 52, I think. This might be 52, the new 52. New 52. Yeah. So, it's been quite a ride. No, I'll say this.

I think that Zack Snyder deserves a spanking. Yeah. I think that's a perfect note to end on. Like a public spanking. From the watch bin. That's right. Go get back to Dawn of the Dead. Get a good script. No. I think that's a perfect note to end on. Like a public spanking. From the watch bin. That's right. Go get back to Dawn of the Dead. Get a good script.

No, just don't be foolish. And just focus up. Or maybe just don't be foolish. Just take it easy, Zach. Got a lot of money. Got a nice life. Oh, I want to make sure that everyone knows

that Marvel paid me a handsome sum to hate this movie. Oh, yeah. No, we hate this movie because we are Marvel shills. We were paid by Marvel. It is so strange.

I've gotten a little bit of that splash back, you know, from the these weirdos on Twitter and stuff. I just don't get it. This is the one you want to go all in on? This one? Batman v Superman? Those guys got quiet after they saw the movie. That's true. They got quieter. There were still

some who liked it. There was one dude I was following intensely who had an account and only just tweeted everyone every day being like, Yo, Farachi, you gonna delete your account when batman v superman oh i remember that i remember that guy yeah and then he's tweeted twice hey man since the movie came out yeah and one of them was to tweet at me and tell me i said hey waiting for your review i was just like curious what does this guy even like the movie and he he said, loved it. Eight out of ten. It means you liked it.

Yeah. Best version yet. Batman would give kids nightmares. I was like, why do you want a movie that kids will hate? Whatever. That's what they decided that they wanted. Great. Merchandise Spotlight.

There's a bunch of it. No one's buying it because they hate this movie. Is that true? No one's buying it? Yeah. It's not doing well. I want a cyborg, but before he gets built, so he's just a torso. Wait, he's just a scarred young man?

He's just a screaming man. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So, next week, Pod, Pod, Podchowski's, Podchowski casters. I'd hit such a wall. I'm gonna have to get the mop to clean you guys up. Yeah, we're dead. So, do you think we can cut this episode down to, like,

15 minutes? Do you think there's like a good 15 minutes in there? Unbreakable. Unbreakable. Unbreakable. Alright, so as always guys, we'll see you

next week with great fully formed thoughts. Yeah. But as always. As always. Aquaman fucking can breathe underwater. That's like the

number one thing. Yeah, no, we're going to have to edit that. Yeah.