Blank Check with Griffin & David - Beloved with Jourdain Searles

Episode Date: January 26, 2020

Co-host of the bad romance podcast , freelance writer for thrillist and bitch media Jourdain Searles joins the cast to talk about the team-up that no one saw coming, Oprah and Demme. The two friends and guest talk about the sexiness of the pepper beard and facial ombre, the Fifty Shades series, and thandie newton again (for the first time?) Plus, what might another Toni Morrison adaptation look like? Why was Ryan Gosling fired from The Lovely Bones? What are the 21 bridges in 21 Bridges? And why doesn't this movie have more ghost stuff?

The podcast has a life of its own. Past. The past. The word of its own. Past. The past. The word is past. Good poster. Striking poster. Where she's like. Yes.

Right. She's sort of doing her. Looking up. Her ghosty pose. Yeah. Her dress. And Danny Glover's beard is so good in this movie. It's pretty good.

I was sad when he shaved it off. It's a bummer. It's kind of the great tragedy of the film. Right. But I remember as a child when this movie came out

there was like a bookstore on the same block as my school that had the poster for months leading up to when it came out and probably months after it had left theaters.

Well, there's two posters. There's this sort of spooky teasery one where she's like, yes, um, just the ghosts. And that just kind of looks like a horror film in terms of the design. It almost looks like a horror film. Yes.

Just straightforward. Right. Right. And then there's the one that I can't find, but that is like my iTunes art. Yes. That's just like Oprah and Danny Glover hugging. Yes.

That seems like a movie with zero ghosts in it. Yes. And mostly just a movie about nice people hugging. Right. You know, they learn to love each other or whatever. That was the poster I walked by. What the hell is this one? There we go.

She's been smoking. Yeah. What's this one? Oh. There's that one. The embrace is the one that I always walked by. Sure. And the thing I realized watching this movie, that is one of my absolute favorite looks.

Go ahead. Person who still has color in their hair, but their beard is gray. Sure. Sort of. Right, right, right, right. Color on top. You're Chris Pines. Gray in the beard.

Yeah, Chris Pines. Danny Glover in this. When Colbert had his beard phase you know you're right I love that look what's that phenomenon I don't know

why does it go gray down here first I don't know but it's almost like a facial ombre I know it's a natural occurrence you know but I like that that shift in tones between the top and the bottom of the head

it's pretty sexy. I think it's a hot look. I think Danny Glover is a sexy guy. Yeah. I think he's a really handsome guy and he's so charming in this movie. He is. He's in charming mode. He is. I mean, that's part of, like, a big part of this character. He's in kind of his sort of aw shucks

kind of mode, right? You know, his sort of, yeah. He's a gentle guy. But there's something very... He's good when he's scary, too. And also, I mean, very often he's sort of, yeah. He's a gentle guy. But there's something very... He's good when he's scary, too. And also, I mean, very often he's annoyed. Grumpy. Grumpy. It is that crazy thing where, like, he was, like, 37

in Lethal Weapon. Yeah, and he's too old for this shit, right? Right. He was so hot in that movie. I didn't expect him to be so hot, because I only watched it for the first time like last year and I expected this like old ugly man and he's just like in the tub and I'm just like god damn. He's looking

great. Yeah. Well I mean look that's another thing about Dan Glover. One of our best bathtub actors. He's got a good tub scene in this. It's true he's got a tub scene in this. But it is it speaks to that thing like your cultural understanding of the reputation of Lethal Weapon is he's too old for this shit. And then you watch the movie

and he is a pretty, in his prime 37 year old man who they put a little gray on. So he looks like a fucking snack. He's at his physical peak. Yeah. Now I want to find out, is he actually younger than Mel Gibson? But he can't be.

I think they were like... No, he's 10 years older than Mel Gibson but he can't be I think they were like no he's 10 years older than Mel Gibson okay so he's he was older right he should have said I'm older yes I'm too much older than you for this shit yeah no because that and Color Purple are his two breakouts uh correct and in both of them he was playing older than he was yeah that's true so he is one of those guys where it feels like you're like, shouldn't Danny Glover have died 20 years ago? Yes. And then you're like, no, he's actually only like 70-something. I think he's 73.

Yeah. He's got a good 10 to 15 years left in him as like grizzled character actor, grandpa, you know, like you can just keep going to that well. Loved him in Sorry to Bother You. Loved him in Sorry to Bother You. Loved him in, what's it called? The Old Man and the Gun. Anytime he pops up, I'm happy to see him. My favorite, Beyond the Lights.

Yes. Oh yeah, I forgot he was in that. And then well, I mean oh right, Last Black Man in San Francisco, he was in that. He's actually been in a lot of stuff recently. And then we're, I mean, Griff, I mean, we don't have to, but we are supposed to go to the next level tonight.

This is a great point. The next level? By the time this episode comes out. This episode will come out, I think, in February. It will have already won Best Picture, but David and I have been cordially invited to experience, to take it to the next level of Jumanji. It is in our court. Oh, right. It's him and it's Danny DeVito.

The two Dannys. The two old Dannys. Kevin Hart playing Danny Glover, which in the trailer seems to be a very good impression. Sure. Right. He's worked on it. And The Rock playing Danny DeVito, which seems to be from the trailer a very non-existent impression. It's just him kind of going like, what?

What are you talking about? He's doing like a standard improv show version of a New York accent. Right. He's like, what are you talking about? Come on. That is all true.

We're going to go to the next level. We're going to take it to the next level. Maybe he's in it for five minutes. Maybe he's in it for, you know, two and a half hours. We don't know.

Yeah. He was also in The Dead Don't Die. I believe with Caleb Landry Jones was his arc. Oh. Isn't he in the hardware store? I did not see it. I have not seen that. How was it? It's not, I don't know. It's not that great. But then maybe in five years, Evan will be like, what are you talking about?

We all slept on that masterpiece. David, what are you talking about? It's the greatest cast of a zombie comedy ever disassembled. One of the sweatiest taglines of all time. From what I remember of the movie, which has already mostly sort of vanished, he owns a hardware store, and he gets locked in it with Caleb Landry Jones, and

there's, like, hijinks. They have some hijinks. Oh, okay. They're warding off zombies? Is that the idea? Yeah. Caleb Landry Jones, that's the scary looking white man. The true wraith-like, you know, like if there was like a white beloved, he could play it. Where he just

looks like a ghost visiting you. I walked past him. He has the very intense eyes. Yes. I walked past him on the streets of LA a couple months ago. Okay. And he was scary looking. He was scary. He was one of those guys where you're like, maybe he turns it on for the camera.

But he had menacing energy. I'm sure he's a very nice man. Yeah. He was much bigger than I thought he would be. Okay. Taller and kind of built. Okay. He was like fairly broad shoulder.

Let's not forget he was Havoc, Banshee. I remember that he was an X-Man. Banshee in the X-Men. But it was one of those things where before I recognized that it was him, I was like, whoa, who is this? Is this guy gonna knife me? And then it was none other than Caleb Laundryback. Right, Caleb Laundryback.

Anyway, he's not in Beloved. He's not in Beloved. As far as I know. No. Although a lot of people are in Beloved. A lot of people. Like, you're watching Beloved and you're like, oh, this person too. A lot of people pop up. Yes. There's some pop-ins. Irma P. Hall.

Yeah. Wes Bentley. Uh-huh. For five seconds. Yeah. I thought about that a lot. Like, this must have been one of his first films. Wes Bentley?

Right. Let's find out. It's his first credit that you can click on in Wikipedia. Let's find out. It's his first credit that you can click on in Wikipedia. Oh, my God. He has two short films before then, I think. That's about it. So, yes, his first film.

Yeah. The Balance of... And American Beauty the next year. Wes, it's your agent on the phone. I got great news. We got an offer. your agent on the phone. I got great news. We got an offer. It's Jonathan Demme directing

a Toni Morrison book produced and starring Oprah. Oh my god, incredible. What's your role? It's wordless. Sure. You only appear in flashbacks doing the most horrific things imaginable. Yes, yes. In a movie filled with

memories of horror. Yeah, but especially because it's like wordless. It must have been so bizarre. Okay, wait. So he's one of, is he one of the guys that like takes her breast milk? Correct. Okay, yeah.

He's the school teacher's nephew? He's the school teacher's nephew. Okay. It's his credit, yes. And then there's like one shot of his face just kind of staring After she kills her baby Yes And that was when I was like

That's definitely Wes Bentley Which is Wes Bentley's on screen energy Anytime he's Interstellar or whatever Looks like Wes Bentley over here Hunger Games Mission Impossible He's had a good little rebound run I guess so He was good Games Mission Impossible right he's had a good little rebound run

I guess so I mean I don't know he was good in Mission Impossible I liked him in Mission Impossible he was in Pete's Dragon right yeah

alright yeah I liked Pete's Dragon this is me kind of like saluting Wes Bentley Pete's Dragon directed by David Lowery who will never come on the show again

never appear on the show again was he on the show? He was. He was. He's coming back. Or never, sorry. Never, never. Oh, okay.

He was on the show. He's definitely coming back. He was on the show. And this show, of course, is Blank Check. Thank you. With Griffin and... David. It's a podcast about filmographies.

Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. And sometimes an even more powerful person who isn't a director hands over their check to you. Sure. Right. Because this is very much a blank check movie. And it is very much Jonathan Demme movie, but it is much more of an

Oprah blank check than it is a Demme blank check. Yes, certainly. Yeah, I guess I would say that. Sure. She's throwing her her, you know. This was her baby. This was the thing that she bought the rights to the script in 1987, the book, to make

the script. Before it had won the Pulitzer. Right. I think right when it was published. She got in early. And it took like 11 years to get it done. And yeah, this was her first movie she had done since The Color Purple on screen. Is that true? Yeah. Is that true?

I am almost certain. I will double check. Yeah. Because I feel like that was the big reputation was like, oh my God, it's such a big deal. Oprah's making a movie again. Yes. She had been in a couple of TV movies.

Oh, I'm sorry. She's also in 1986's Native Son in a very small role. Yes, I think. Oh, interesting. Yeah, 1986's Native Son. Also,

she did, yeah, this like television miniseries of a book which I wrote a review on just this year and cannot remember. Are you talking about

There Are No Children Here? No. I'm trying to see what else. But from that time, from the 80s or the 90s? The Women of Brewster Place. Oh yeah, where is that?

Oh yeah, here, yeah, right, Brewster Place. Yes, and there was a Brewster Place TV show that was short-lived.

In the 90s. Yeah. And she played a characterster Place TV show that was short-lived. In the 90s. Yeah. And she played a character. Is she playing an old lady in that one? That's an old lady. The 90s, man. She loves playing an old woman. She's very good at it.

Yeah, she is. I feel like she is one of the more naturalistic playing an old person actors. Yeah. Janine and I were talking about this. She's a good actor. Basically always. I think that she's great. I also,

I've been watching a lot of, I've been doing this piece on the decade in black film, which I'm saying it now, even though hopefully it'll be published by the time this is out. Sure.

And I watched the, I was watching The Butler and then I watched this and I was just like, she is hot in both of these movies. That's my take. She's pretty hot in The Butler. She's running hot.

Yeah. That's sort of a, you touch it and you're like, whoa. Oh, boy. Yeah. But like in the scene where she's meeting Paul D again, played by Danny Glover, and he like shows up in her yard and she's barefoot and they're looking at each other. I was like, this is a hot scene. Yeah, that's true. And it is fun, yeah, because we don't like Oprah on television,

very maternal figure. People would come on and sort of talk to her about their feelings, their relationships, their hardships. Right, yeah, she's the person that Ellen comes out to. Yes, yes. She was Ellen's therapist on the Ellen episode. Yeah. And one could also argue

she is the one who like anointed Ellen the new king of daytime. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Ellen sort of became

the next Oprah. Which I don't know if that was a good thing but you know, it happens. It's questionable. It's what happened. But there was that thing.

Look, I never watched the Ellen show. I mean, I don't watch it. You don't watch it every day? I mean, I don't watch The Ellen Show. You don't watch it every day? I mean, I don't have cable TV anyway. I guess I could watch it if I really. But I will occasionally find myself watching a clip from The Ellen Show.

It's the same hair. And she's just, she's very salty. Like, she's got a real edge to her on air. Yeah, she does. I know she has a, you know, there's an unspoken sort of thing that she's got a salty edge off air too or whatever. You see chatter

on the internet sometimes. She's still got that stand-up defense mechanism I gotta cut you before you cut me. Sure, right. That very specific

like product of the 80s stand-up club scene. 100%. And I know she like hangs out with George Bush and says we should all

be nice people and people get mad at her and that's a great conversation to have. We all do that. We all hang out with George Bush. It's a thing we all do. I mean, I love the video with her and... Dakota Johnson? Yes. I was going to say Melanie Griffith's daughter.

Which is an old lady way to describe her. I mean, that is one of the better films of 2019. It's a thrilling exchange. It's so good. It's a white knuckle ride. It's wonderful. I just can't believe, I could not imagine going on somebody's show and just being like, oh, you didn't invite me to your party.

Like, I run into people who didn't invite me to their party all the time. And I'm just like, I'm not going to mention it. I'm not going to mention it. But you know, you know 100% the reason Dakota Johnson did that is because it wasn't just that she didn't show up to the party. It was that she went and hung out with George Bush instead of going to the party. Oh, yeah. Right. When people triangulated, wait a second, let's look at the dates. As you're saying, as Melanie Griffith and Don Johnson's daughter, she probably just has a kind of like, what are you going to do?

Energy, right? where it's like I can say what I want exactly yeah I've been in this shit my whole life I completed the 50 shades of grey trilogy she was I loved her me too she's great

they finished the film they released them I have seen all three of them. I have to say that I'm impressed that anybody managed to get through all three books. They did. They did it.

They did it. I got so bored. Did you read any of the books? I read the first one and tried to read the second one and I was so bored. The first one is terrible. So I feel like it only goes out from there

but Fifty Shades Darker, the movie, 100% wonderful time in the theater. I believe that is the second movie, right? Which is the least plotty. That's the one where it's just a lot of crazy stuff. It's also the one where there's a Chronicles of Riddick poster in the background of the scene. That was an amazing time

at the movies. We were all just audibly saying, is that Chronicles of Riddick? I felt very close to everyone in the movie theater that night. Now, you host a podcast. I do, yeah. Our guest, Jordane. Oh, Jordane Searles.

Jordane Searles. I'm sorry, we didn't introduce you. Hi. You host a podcast called Bad Romance that is about bad romances in movies. Yes. What is your view of Fifty Shades of Grey as a phenomenon, as a thing, especially as a cinematic adaptation? Because I had a very – I only saw the first one. I made a very snap opinion, a snap judgment.

And in the last couple of months, I've actually been rethinking their place in culture a little bit. I mean the first one is very much like – it was Sam Taylorlor johnson i believe and she didn't really get along with el james and the way that she made the movie was kind of like she almost made the movie in a way where it's like she didn't like the book and it was really clear that it was made by somebody who didn't like the book so when they switched directors um to 50 shades james foley i believe yeah the other two right um yeah so the first one is like kind of like a criticism of the first book, but it's a weird criticism because it still has to move through all of the plot conventions of it. It doesn't really work as a criticism and also doesn't really work for the book either. It's really weird.

But the other two are just like exactly what those books were meant to be, which is just. Just crazy thrillers with spanking and helicopters. And also just like power, just like this fantasy. Like I love the way that Dakota Johnson gets in the last two where she just like becomes more and more confident and more and more just like this wealth belongs to me. She gets so into it. Helen must attend my party. And in the third one especially, there's like a woman that's like,

who's designing their house and it's an architect designing their house and the woman like talks to Christian and doesn't talk to her and kind of just like treats her like a trophy wife or whatever. And then Dakota like pulls her to the side and excuse me, my name is Mrs. Gray,

and you need to back up off my husband. And I'm just like, all right. Do they get married in two or three? I think they get married in three. No, apparently they get married at the end of two. Three begins with their honeymoon. I can't even imagine. Rita Ora, of course, is in all

three. Rita Ora and those movies, just looking for the plot, looking for some kind of thread. She plays his sister? She's his sister. Of course. Tim Basinger, I believe, is in the final two as the evil taker of his virginity. Marsha Gay Harden plays the mom.

Hell yeah. In a very strange performance. See, I only saw the first one, and my takeaway was I hate this book, which it's interesting that that's your explanation of the first movie because I did not read the book, but watching the movie made me hate the book. Because it feels like the movie is trying to make you hate the book. Oh, yeah. No, definitely. That's why E.L. James got her fired.

Right. Kind of sneering at the book. And the thing I found fascinating about the movie while not liking it was that it felt like a filmmaker trying to sort of do what Coppola did with The Godfather. Sure, where he's like, this is junk, but yeah. I want to use this like pop culture phenomenon to like Trojan horse and a bunch of things I'm interested in around this theme. Right. But we live in an era now where the writer of the book gets complete approval over every fucking prop and every element of set dressing. And Yellow James apparently just didn't let her do anything.

I mean the ending is still one of the funniest endings ever because he just like gives her like a few spankings like with his hand. And she's just like, no, I can't handle this. The first movie just ends with he spanks her one time and she's like, I'm out. She gets in an elevator. This is the end of the film? The end of the movie, she gets in an elevator and says, I'm done. And the doors close. And then the movie literally basically is like, check in next year for part two.

It's not like the movie is like, and that's that. But the other crazy thing is that scene has happened ten times over the course of the film you've just watched. Yeah, no, it's a weird thing because a lot of people I know got really upset about it because of its wrong portrayal of BDSM. But the thing about the books is that they're not about BDSM. They're just about this guy who does not know how to love a woman without it. Can you change a man?

And once they're settled and married, they don't even really do it anymore. Yeah, I mean, he, right. It becomes about all this other shit And once they're settled and married, they don't even really do it anymore. Right. It becomes about all this other shit. And him having helicopters and Kim Basinger. So it just seems like it was written by a person that hasn't had any interesting sex and it shows and I just don't. I think she has new books. I'm sure she does.

I mean, it must be easy when you don't really edit. Right. So can I just say congratulations to the fan fiction community for their accomplishment? It is pretty incredible. The Mister. Yeah. The Mister. That's what it's called.

I was listening to The Mister on audiobook and I just could not. Who does the audiobook? Does she do it? No. It's just like actors. But The Mister is so good. not who does the audiobook does she do it no it's like just like actors but the mystery is 512 pages which is close to double the length of beloved yes truly yeah well it's like 320 yeah maybe 350 something like that beloved is like a like a nice like not too long of a book

but every couple pages is just like full of so much emotion and imagery and trauma. And like, like even like when I was reading the bluest eye, which is probably like her shortest book, it still took me a really long time just because like every page, like I had to put it down and I had to be like, okay, I need to think about what I just read and then pick up the book again.

The problem with, as this is the problem with so many great American authors, is that her books are often foisted on kids in high school, and they're tough. They're challenging reads. They're, you know, something, as you say, you sometimes need to sit with, or you need to be sort of like held, you know, guided through. And so kids think of her as this

like broccoli author, you know, like, ah, yeah, I had to read, you know, Song of Solomon. But she's so good. She's so good. And I was gonna say, I don't know if it's just my weird taste or whatever, but I was a kid who, despite liking words and books, was so anti-school that I usually resented any book I was assigned. And I remember Song of Solomon being like one of the books in high school where I was like, I enjoy reading this. I am reading this for pleasure. I am reading this out of enthusiasm.

Right. That was like one of the ones that gripped me and that stood out after high school where I didn't throw away my copy, you know. Throw away your copy. Burn it. You're burning books. I burn any book I don't like. Right. But I never read Beloved. I bought

it five days ago because I was like, oh, I should probably read it before the show, and then made it ten pages in and was like, I'm not going to finish this in five days. You were trying to read Beloved just like... I'm a pretty fast reader. Sure, no. I had not read Song of Solomon in 16 years. It's very tough to sort of try and skim read her book.

Exactly. I forgot how dense her language is. I haven't read a Morrison book. But it was one of those things where I was like, I'm not going to speed read this for the sake of saying I read it before the podcast. I will put it on my shelf and read it in full. either for a miniseries or a very like liberal adaptation that kind of like um goes through you know kind of more of the emotional beats than not necessarily like all of the story beats because it does i and you you i think you've probably read the book more recently than i but like the movie is trying to just get it all in there yeah and i don't really think that it works especially in scenes where like okay so we're in a scene and then we kind of see a flashback where we're not fully in the flashback.

It's like we're getting like a preview of it. The opening of this movie is very aggressive. Yes. Yes. Yes. Anyway, carry on. Yeah. And so, yeah, it just seems like there's it's like it doesn't seem like Demi really understood what to do with the backstory.

Sure. what to do with the backstory. And so it just kind of like feels jarring and kind of like takes the poetry out of it a lot of the time. And it's also, I mean, I get this a lot. I feel this a lot with like men, like directors portraying anything having to do with slavery,

but it's just like, so it's such a weird version of it that doesn't really take its time to really like get into the emotions of the situation. And the emotions is what the root of this story is. It's about, you know, the trauma of slavery and like how it continues to stick with you. Right, point. Yeah. And so it's like you can't just show us like a flashback and be like,

we got it. Yeah. I think the flashbacks are the roughest. Right. I agree with you. Like the sort of roughest portion of this movie.

It's not a bad movie. There are things about it I like. It's an odd duck of a film. But it's an odd thing. Yeah. Yes. Had you ever seen it before,

Griffin? I had never seen it before. Had either of you seen it before? Yeah, I watched it like as a kid and I was just like, this is weird and bad. But I saw it again.

Did you see it like when you were reading the book? I saw it in high school. No, I didn't read the book until I was an adult. Oh, interesting. So you had seen the movie first. Yeah. And then you read the book fairly recently. I don't know how.

Yeah, I don't know how this movie. It's crazy to think about this movie just coming out anyway. Because, yeah, but. This is the kind of thing

that needs kind of like a rollout, like, kind of like a Barry Jenkins, like, I'm about to ease you into this giant thing. Right,

right. It feels like a crazy thing for people to have just been like, beloved, I don't know, what is it? Let's go. It's like a period ghost movie?

Let's all go watch it. And like just sitting down and watching this movie and like, you know, how do you it's a tough movie to unpack. And it was like I feel like it's main selling point was, oh, anytime Oprah picks a book, people go gaga for it. This is the greatest Oprah's book club of all time.

Oprah herself is making the movie and putting herself in it. Her big return as a film actress. The Oprah endorsement stamp is the whole thing. But it is this strange film. It's like an $80 million Disney financed. Yes, it's a Disney film.

The only adaptation of one of the most canonical. $80 million is a crazy amount of money. This movie doesn't look like it cost $80 million. No, it does not. It looks fine. Most of it takes place in the house. Yeah, it's...

Yeah. It's just... It's a wild... It's a big budget. And the fact that this is the only Toni Morrison adaptation... The only Toni Morrison adaptation. This is... Is that part of it?

Has she just mostly not sold the rights to her books? I think that's the case. Because obviously Oprah optioned this book. They wrote her a personal check for $1 million, which I'd love it if Oprah wrote me a personal check for $1 million. Yeah, and even after this movie, I'm pretty sure Toni Morrison was at peace with the movie, which I don't know how much of that is just like,

I like my friend Oprah, or how much of it is this actually works for the material. I wonder which, right. I mean, I think authors are usually pretty judicious about not getting too mad unless they decide to go hard and be like, no, it sucks, right? Like do a Stephen King in the settings. Yeah, sure.

But yeah, she was polite about the movie as far as in a publicly, right? Yeah, she was. And this also feels like a movie that is- I don't think... Go ahead. Two very skilled, very powerful people trying their earnest hardest to do right by the book.

They're not taking any radical swings at changing it, right? Right. So that probably in and of itself, please, during the fact that Oprah spent 11 years trying to get it right, you know? Yeah, yeah. It ending up with Demi is such an interesting, like I've watched.

This is the thing I've been trying to figure out. This is, because like, you know, my favorite Demi movies are like Something Wild, Married to the Mob, like more that kind of stuff, Rachel getting married. And so him doing this, there's just really nothing in like his oeuvre that points to this for me.

In a way, and then when I started watching it, I kind of understood where, because Oprah was the one who just said, Demi's who I want, right? She offers it to him. Is that right? Yeah. Okay, because I was trying to figure this out, because this movie gestated for 10 years. Yes, it was very much Oprah's choice. And I have to assume past, surely other directors had maybe been involved at some point if it was sort of gestating. But I feel like the big thing was her constantly hiring new writers to try to adapt it.

Sure. I mean, I might be wrong on this, and I was digging into Try to Find History, but it seemed like so much of the stop and start was, obviously, Oprah had a day job that was pretty time-consuming. Right. And she didn't want to get the movie off the ground, even try to get it off the ground until she felt like the adaptation was right. Right. And like Richard LaGravenese wrote on it. Yes.

Annenberg's. Yes. Yes. Rewrite guys. There is a coffee table book called Journey to Beloved in which she describes the process of making Beloved by Oprah Winfrey. I have not read it. But I know I feel like so much. Now I want to read it.

Yeah. So much of even at the time when people were like, why is a white man directing this film? Oprah was constantly saying this is who I chose, this is who I wanted. I felt like he was the best person to do it. Obviously at the time he is a very major director. He had made two films that

decade. That's what's so weird about this. This is 1998. Huge hit and Philadelphia. It's his first film since Philadelphia. six years earlier. He's made a lot of documentaries in between. But this is his first fiction film in six years. His two previous films were major Oscar players. So to a certain degree, this is his weird 90s trilogy of, like, Oscar-y films.

That's true. Like the serious, prestige-y Jonathan Demme. Right. Except all three of these films are very strange. That's true. Like the serious, prestige-y Jonathan Demme. Right. Except all three of these films are very strange. Very different from each other. And do not play as conventional Oscar-y movies.

So I think to her mind, A, he seemed like one of the big, serious guys. And to another point, to a certain degree, watching this, especially the first 30 minutes, which leans so much more

into the horror of everything, you kind of see why, which leans so much more into the horror of everything, you kind of see why she would want to hire the Silence of the Lambs guy to make this movie. You know, we have a saying in our family, use sports, don't let sports use you. Hi, it's Jeff Merrick from 32 Thoughts to Podcast. Are you a sports parent, rep sports, travel sports, whatever you call it? If you're like me, you know that one of the great joys of having your kid or kids play sports is travel. You know, our families use sports to see different parts of the world, meet new people, and stay in a number of different places. Recently, we've started using Airbnb. The kids love it because it feels like a sleepover at a new friend's house, while my wife and I enjoy more space, a proper bed, and mostly a washing machine.

That really comes in handy for baseball trips. Trust me. In fact, it was on a baseball trip last summer when my wife sent me a text after the first night saying, Do you think we could do this? Look, if you've ever stayed at an Airbnb, you've probably wondered the same thing. Could our place be an Airbnb? And now that our kids have also discovered the joys of skiing, in addition to travel hockey and travel baseball, we're on the move even more. Well, our house just sits there. Why not make a little extra money to

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Listen up, let me tell you a story. Toronto critics are losing their heads over Six the musical. The Globe and Mail raves Six reigns supreme and is eye-poppingly fun. CTV proclaims Six is a Royal Ten. Six is so fun, so smart, and so, so funny. I absolutely will be going again, says CBC Radio. Join the six wives of Henry VIII at the Royal Alexandra Theatre. Now on stage.

Book at Mirvish.com. There's stuff like in the beginning of the red light. I love the red light. Oh yeah, no, that's great. That's an incredible little moment.

And you know, a lot of the early stuff with Danny Glover is really good and his chemistry Glover is really good. And his chemistry with Oprah is really good, which is probably why he picked her. Even though, like, in terms of the book, Danny Glover is actually a really weird choice, in my opinion. Really? Yeah.

Well, I mean, like, maybe it's just like a black thing. But, like, the way that Paul Diaz described in the book, like, part of the reason why women love him so much is because he's very, very like light skinned and kind of like a, like a Michael Ealy kind of looking person. He's more pretty. Right. He's pretty. Whereas Danny Glover is like sort of a big,

broad guy. Right. He's more fatherly. Like he is more like someone you'd, you know, take you into his embrace. Right. So it was interesting.

Like it was, it makes Paul D come off differently than he does in the book because in the book he just kind of reminds me of somebody that would wear a zoot suit if zoot suits had been created at the time. Right. Because in this it feels like he's just a charisma guy. Not that he's not good looking, but the whole power of this guy is there's something about him.

He's so engaging. His eyes are what's really sexy about him. His eyes are unbelievable. He's kind of got like Disney cartoon animal eyes. His eyes are just so round. You can just see so much of the emotion in his face. So, I mean, he's up for the job, but that's an interesting thing. It's especially interesting when his interactions with, like, Denver, played by Kimberly Elise,

who I think is really good in this movie. She's terrific. She's really great. And I remember at the time the narrative being a little bit like, here's, like, a major new star. Right, right. We're going to have Kimberly Elise. I'm kind of upset that she didn't really break out. Like, she, I mean, a lot of the roles that she's had just, like.

She had been in Set It Off already. The year before. And she's so great in Set It Off. Right. Great movie. I want to talk about her for a second because I think this is an interesting career arc. And I think partly maybe because it's you know literally, especially at the time, just tough to get good vehicles as a young black

actress. I mean as I've been doing this research on the black films of the decade and why more black films are nominated for Oscars and everything, part of it is that there really weren't a lot of roles for black women during that time. Um, mostly in the nineties, it was like waiting to exhale, set it off. Um, whatever side role in like juice or menace to society. Those are like small roles. Right. Right.

And then there's just like yelling at someone. Right. And then there's stuff on the fringes, like just another girl in the IRT and the watermelon woman that people didn't even really talk about until movies. Well, yeah. And so the girl in the IRT is so good. Yeah, it is. And so she... I feel like there just wasn't really anything

and then it wasn't until really Tyler Perry with Diary of a Mad Black Woman, I think in 2004. 2005, yeah. She's what she's in. She's really good. She's the lead star. Right. So yeah. She's the titular character. She's the mad black woman. She's the mad black woman. Yeah. She's really

great. Yeah, it's a weird thing where I feel like there could only be she has a certain look where there can be only so many of her at once and I also think that a lot of her thunder was stolen by Tandy Newton which is really funny considering that I kind of think that Kimberly Elise is the better actress it's interesting

and Tandy Newton does pretty quickly go from this to you know booking your Mission Impossible 2s and your sort of big role. Well, right. They sort of chose her to be the next one. But then we talk about in our following episode. She had a weird career. We talk about in the Truth About Charlie episode. That she ends up coming back around to being sort of a character actress, which is her better zone.

Yeah. And you watch, like, the degree to which he, like, digs into this character, which is not a part that most ingenues would want to take, which speaks to the fact that I don't think she thought about

positioning herself as an ingenue, which Hollywood then did. The Kimberly Elise thing, which I think is fascinating, is that, like, set it off as such a breakout, and this is presumed

to be this big Oscar player. She's the only one who kind of gets traction off of this. She gets a Critics Award. She gets a couple Critics Awards. Yeah. And people thought, and then the movie just didn't really connect. And then she's kind of in a nether space

for a couple of years. She's in Bait. She's in John Q. I think these are sort of thankless wife roles. Right. But then her revival weirdly is, and to some degree she was too early on this, it's Dairamab Black Woman and Woman Thou Art Loosed, which are the first two, like, big Christian movies to cross over into the mainstream.

And, like, inspirational sort of, like. Yeah. And she's great in both of them. She's playing people who are like in bad relationships and dealing with toxic things and they're like overcoming them. But she kind of like anointed that new genre, at least in terms of like being a crossover success, where those two movies were like actual mainstream box office performers. Yeah. Whereas like faith-based films had not performed that way before. But it does, it speaks to to like so this was the first

poster for Diary of a Mad Black where it's like it's her head and she's a flower if you remember like she's sort of yes I remember that and that was the sort of

those initial Tyler Perry movies always had that more impressionistic poster there would be two different takes there would be the comedy poster

and the spiritual poster as the movie was going crazy like right there was the Medea has a gun poster. Pointing a gun at the title. And then as the Tyler Perry-verse sort of went on, they would more just usually just be, like, wacky posters with a lot of big actors on them. Medea became a franchise. But they were pretty smart in terms of understanding.

I mean, that is the juxtaposition of all Tyler Perry movies is you have very broad comedy and these, like, very sort of, like, character-driven melodramas. I do love the flower posters though. Oh yeah, no. The flower posters, fantastic. I think there's one for Daddy's Little Girls. There's a flower one. Yeah, that's, I've got to find that poster. Yes, yes.

That's legitimately good. Idris Elba, Gabrielle Union. That is one of my favorite ones. So good in that. I have not seen every Tyler Perry movie, but I have seen that one. But yeah, I think in general when it comes to black actors and specifically black women, you kind of have to hitch your wagon to Lee Daniels, Tyler Perry, Oprah, or I guess Ava soon is kind of like.

And I think. A lot of flowers. Yeah. And they, and she just didn't, she, I mean, it's weird. She was there at the ground floor and it's like we moved into the later 2000s and she just got forgotten. That's what's interesting is I feel like she was this like trailblazer in terms of like, I think to do a faith-based film was not seen as a good career move for a legitimate actress at that point in time. Yeah.

And she does the two that break out and then suddenly everyone realizes, oh, let's jump in the water and she kind of gets pushed out of it. And it's interesting because there are so many, like Viola Davis was in Medea Goes to Jail. Like there's so many, Gabrielle Union's in there.

And Taraji P. Henson talks about like, Yeah, Taraji's in multiple. Like she had gotten the Oscar nomination and no one was giving her lead parts. And she was like, Tyler Perry was the only person who would give me a lead role, who raised my quote, sorry, in Hollywood. And then I suddenly was viewed as a leading lady. And like it became this like clear career path for everyone to do. It became the equivalent I feel like for black actors of like white pretty actors doing a Sundance indie to be like, wait, I can actually act. Give me an Oscar.

It became a thing to, like, show your sort of bonafide. I've got to give you the next three thankless wife roles that Kimberly Elise was handed post Diary of a Mad Black. All in, like, inspirational, you know, biopic, like, true story film. Because those two movies, she is the lead. She is. She's the titular character character she's also in the Manchurian Candidate right

the supporting role yeah Pride which if you don't remember Bernie Mac and Terrence Howard Swimming yes the swimming movie

a swimming drama yeah in which I think she plays like the wife I would imagine then The Great Debaters the Denzel Washington movie in which I think she plays some mom, maybe, something like that.

And then, and this is the one I did not remember, she played Ben Carson's wife in Gifted Hands, the Ben Carson story. The TV movie where Cuba Gooding Jr. plays Ben Carson. Now Secretary of Housing Ben Carson. And now, wasn't she, I'm trying to think, I saw her in something recently and I was shocked. I think it was Ad Astra. Yes, yes. She's in Ad Astra.

She dies in Ad Astra. She's one of the nice people on the ship where they're like, it's really great to have you on board, Brad Pitt. And he's like, happy to be here. By the end of it, they're all dead. Because he doesn't know how to talk to anybody. Is that the baboon ship?

No. She's on the ship that takes them, that docks with the baboons. Yeah, where he has a whole crew and the entire crew dies. And then he has to commandeer it and by the end of it, they're all dead. Right.

And it's just because his daddy never taught him how to fucking communicate. Oh my God, that movie is so... Love Kimberly Elise. No, yeah, I love her. Like, I... Oh my God. That movie is so. Love Kimberly Elise. No. Yeah. I love her. Like I.

Oh my God. Like I'm I am nobody but I would love to just like write a screenplay and just be like can I just get this in her hands. Can we give her something to do.

The crazy thing is I mean you say you say you're nobody which is not true. You're a very respected writer. But I feel like very often people like that where you're like this actor is so good. No one writes good parts for them. a respected writer but I feel like very often

people like that where you're like this actor's so good no one writes good parts for them I wish I could write something for them it could never get

through to them A it's easier to get through to them than you think and B they are so excited that someone's writing a part for them that they would do it

you know like I feel like Ryan Coogler talks about that with Michael B. Jordan where like he wrote Fruitvale Station and he was like man I'd love to like get this guy but I assume he's like inundated with offers. And he sent the script to Michael B. Jordan and Michael B. Jordan was like, no one has ever offered me a lead role before.

I've been acting since I was 11. Yeah, on The Wire, yeah. Yeah, and he was like, I never – and Coogler was like, I assumed you were just choosy and turned down stuff. And he's like, no, no one was ever letting me be a lead. No one even threw it by me as an option. Well, let's get Kimberly Elise back in movies. Let's do that. I mean, and I guess Tandy Newton, we should probably talk about her.

Let's talk about her. Tandy Newton, we should probably talk about her. Let's talk about her. Tandy Newton, of course, British. She's an actress who I had, I mentioned this before we started recording, but my relationship with her was just that, like, I was convinced she was bad for such a long time. Like, I would watch her in a bunch of things, and she was bad in them.

And then I watched Westworld, which she's great in. So fucking good in Westworld. And I'm just like, okay, well then what's been going on all this time so I want to talk about Dandy Dube yeah a British actress as I said um I believe uh her mom was a Zimbabwean princess her dad is like a lab tech born in London her name means beloved it's all over the IMDb trivia page. And the first thing I feel like, the first

things that I knew her in, I guess she's in Into the Vampire. I don't remember her in that. She's one of the maids when they're in the mansion. I think she gets killed. They suck her blood. It's been a while since I saw that one. She's like the only black person in it.

Aunt Raisa. Then she's in Jefferson in Paris playing Sally Hemings. That movie is insane. I have never seen it. It's a Merchant Ivory movie. It was a big movie. Nick Nolte as Thomas Jefferson. It's like

a love triangle between Nick Nolte, Tanti Newton, and I believe Gwyneth Paltrow. I think it's Greta Skaki, or however you say her name. But let's find out. No, no, it's Gwyneth Paltrow. It is. And I just remember being like...

Greta Skaki is in it, but not... I just remember thinking, whose idea with this? And also just like, why is it a romance? Why is the Sally Hammond story a romance? Right. That's not how it went. The poster is very much, yes, here. Like, it looks like a, I'm going to find you the poster.

I really like it. You see Tandy Newton, like, listening in on the other side of the door being like, uh-oh. You know, sort of like, what's going on? Jeez. This was a movie. It was like an Oscar-y play, but it was a bomb. Yeah. But so she was in that, that she's on the poster. I mean, it's a big movie. It was like an Oscar-y play, but it was a bomb. Yeah. But so she was in that. She's on the poster.

I mean, it's a big film. Yeah. And then after that, she's in Gridlocked, which is a good movie. Yeah. But she's kind of really big in it, in my memory. Like sort of really over the top. She can be very theatrical. Yes.

Which sometimes suits the material very well and sometimes she overdoses in the movie very quickly I believe because that's sort of part of the plot

it's a good movie I like the movie and then she's in this okay and then right after this Mission Impossible 2 yeah and then Truth About Charlie

Chronicles of Riddick and then I think and she also had a big arc on ER as Noah Wiley's wife yeah he meets her when he's doing good in Africa, and they have a hole up and down.

She was on ER a lot. Oh, interesting. She has a stillbirth. Never watched that show. There's all kinds of- David's favorite show. I love ER. Anytime she showed up in ER, you'd be like, fuck.

Because it was always the most depressing storyline. Yeah. She was just there for the show to be sad, and for Noah Wiley to cry and for her to cry. ER was like the one TV show my mom watched. My mom was fairly anti-TV

without throwing the TV out the window and banning TV from our homes. Right, right. And that was the one show she watched. It was a big deal. And every so often

I would go see a movie with my mom and an actor would come on screen and she'd go, ugh. And I'd go, what? And she'd go, ugh, they had'd go, what? And she'd go,

that's a terrible arc on ER. Like I felt through osmosis that thing of when ER spent eight episodes on a really annoying plot line. My mother would hold it against that actor for the next 10 years. That's how I was with Beverly Hills 90210. Fair.

I think things that have like kind of like overdramatic soap opera arcs like that, you tend to blame the actor for corrupting your show for taking the show hostage yeah definitely and then she gets ends up in like the thankless zone of like pursuit of happiness

pursuit of happiness Norbit she is the object of desire in Norbit Cuba Gooding Jr. and Eddie Murphy are wrestling over her that is the object of desire in Norbit. Cuba Gooding Jr. and Eddie Murphy are wrestling over her. We talk about this in our next episode. That is the most thankless role of all time. I refuse to watch it. But in the middle of all that, there is Crash.

Yes. Obviously, which gets her a BAFTA nomination. Another movie. Doesn't she win the BAFTA? She wins the BAFTA. She wins Best Supporting Actress. Yes. That's another movie where she's really big, in my opinion.

She's really. She is doing a lot. A lot of people are in another movie where she's really big in my opinion. She's really She's doing a lot. A lot of people are in that movie. Everyone is. Everyone's pretty big. Terrence Howard is doing a lot. Uh huh. I mean Terrence Howard

is also another one that's always doing a lot. I've never seen Terrence Howard just chill in a movie. I mean the Tani Newton performance from this era that I really like

which is also very big and thus very divisive, but I think is really good, is hers Condoleezza Rice in W. I don't agree with you. I think she's the one person who's on the right wavelength. Yeah, I like how cartoonish it is. No, the person who's good in W is Elizabeth Banks for some reason. Oh, Banks is also good in that. I have not seen it.

That movie is stupid. That movie does not exist. That is astounding. We don't good in that. I have not seen it. That movie is stupid. That movie does not exist. That is astounding. We don't talk about that. That the year that he was still in office. He was still president. His final year in office, Oliver Stone made a weirdly apolitical. A weirdly sympathetic George W. Bush movie where it's like, look, he's a stupid guy.

What can you do? But the movie is just, what would make this guy run for president? It's just him being like, oh, shucks, I'm sure stupid. And then Richard Dreyfuss is Dick Cheney, and he's like, what if we were evil? It's kind of like a short story. Punched over. And then in interviews, Richard Dreyfuss would be like, Dick Cheney's a fucking asshole. And we'd be like, we get it.

You don't like the guy. Dreyfuss is insane in that movie. He is on one. The whole cast is bizarre. I mean, I saw Vice, so I feel like I should just complete it. I mean, W is better than Vice I feel like I should just complete it. I mean, Jeffery is better than Vice. Oh, thank God. Right?

It kind of, by default. I mean, the only person that I think is good in Vice is Tyler Perry. I agree with you. Thank you. He's better than Jeffrey Wright is in that role in W. And I love Jeffrey Wright. Yes, I think Jeffrey Wright is not. But Jeffrey Wright's kind of hang dog.

He hasn't really, yeah. I believe we, I make the same point in next week's episode. The only other person I think is good in W is Alison Pell. Okay, anyway. No, you're saying vice. You mean vice.

Sorry, sorry. Enough. The point is, Tanny Newton, I think, has somewhat of a phenomenon that we love on this show. You get angry when I use an example, but I think he is a good example. The Colin Farrell syndrome, where someone is a very magnetic, skilled actor

who is also incredibly attractive, and everyone goes, oh, they're a movie star, and they kind of flounder when you put them in movie star roles. Sure. And they're only good when you let them do weird shit. Yes. They need to have a lot of weird shit to lom onto. And if not, then they're putting way too much into what should be a pure presence role.

Yeah, I agree. I just watched Roman J. Israel last night, which I love. Great movie. We're all on board here. And Colin Farrell in it. I'm just like, can't he just be in movies like this forever? My favorite actor alive. Right, but then you watch. We're on the same page. and Colin Farrell in it. I'm just like, can't he just be in movies like this forever? My favorite actor alive.

Right, but then you watch. We're on the same page. David and I disagree on this, but you watch something like Dumbo and you're like, he's good in Dumbo. He's doing too much shit in Dumbo. No, no. Tandy Newton's daughter's in Dumbo.

She's the star. That is true. Yeah. And you spend half the movie being like, this girl is familiar looking. And then you're like, oh, it's Tandy Newton's daughter

with the director of Mamma Mia. She looks like a young clone of Tandy Newton. Yeah. Tandy Newton's daughter with the director of Mamma Mia. She looks like a young clone of Tandy Newton. Tandy Newton is married to the director of Mamma Mia Here We Go Again. Yes. Our finest filmmaker.

Paul Parker. So good. So. But yeah I should I want to point out the Tandy Newton performance that made me think

that I was a bad that she was a bad actress and it's her performance in For Colored Girls and really like everybody's kind of playing to their Tessa Thompson is really

great in For Colored Girls. She's like the only person where I'm just like she's fantastic. Kimberly Lee's in that too right? That is the one time Tyler Perry brought her back. And that's a thankless role. Wow. He kind of brought a lot of his collaborators like Janet Jackson's in that,

uh, with the Goldberg, Felicia Rashad. Yeah. Uh, it's his Avengers, Kerry Washington, a little bit.

He's taking a play. That's a series of monologues and turning it into a movie. And I don't know. I mean, it was a big swing. What is she doing? She's just like poor. Uh, that's like her whole, her whole character. Newton playing in that film? She's just like poor. That's like her whole character is that she's poor.

And then she's just like yelling. She's just like yelling in this weird like, it's like she's trying to play ghetto, but since I don't believe that Tandy Newton has ever been to the ghetto, she just sounds. Tandy Newton, I think, she's from England. I think she lived a relatively genteel. She seems very posh to me, but it's just like her doing, what, I think she's from England. Yeah. I think she lived a relatively gentile. She seems very posh to me, but it's just like her doing, what did I describe it as?

Oh yeah, it was like poor drag. Like a drag performance of poor. Just way off. Yeah. And I kind of I was thinking about For Colored Girls a lot when watching this because a lot of the noises that she makes remind me of the noises that she makes

remind me of the way that her voice sounded in for colored girls so we have to talk right about her performance in Beloved

she plays Beloved she is a reincarnated ghost of a murdered child who has is in like an adult body and is haunting her mother right

but is sort of taking the guise of like sort of a essentially like an intellectually disabled woman who shows up on her porch in a fancy dress. With bugs all over her. And drooling.

And drooling. The bugs are gone by the time she shows up. I guess she's supposed- I like when she has the bugs on her. What I'm guessing is that she's supposed to be like a baby, but like in an adult body. But they interpret her as like, oh, she just must be touched or straightened or whatever.

But I think that is the idea, is that she is a baby with adult faculties. Correct. And so she kind of like growls and sort of makes like clicking noises and speaks in this very babyish way. It is a very 90s Oscar part. It is on paper. Where you're like

this allows an actor to really go for it. She's almost like Nell or something. Right. Where like she barely has language and it's sort of like what is going on here? This is so showy. Did you folks read Alison Woolmore's piece on Edward Norton

that came out when Motherless Girlfriend came out? Yeah. That's a really good piece. Best piece as a film writing I've read in the last year. Well she's outrageous.

She shouldn't be allowed to work. She's amazing. She's too good. Alison Woolmore? It's an outrage. She owns but that piece

I thought she crystallized something really interesting. The piece is sort of on how inarguably Edward Norton was viewed as the guy. By the end of the late 90s. In the 90s, it was like that's when he was in the score. People were like, Brando De Niro Norton. It's three generations. That's a torch being passed. Right.

But you go like from 96 to 99, he makes five movies, gets two Oscar nominations. I mean it was like he just hit the ground running. And then 99 when Fight Club's coming out, there's the Vandy Fair profile that is like it's undeniable Edward Norton is the actor of his generation. I believe that's the headline. Then he directs a rom-com. Right. Pretty charming. He makes this weirdly charming rom-com and then does the score and it felt like the anointment moment.

And then his career like sort of drives off a cliff. And her whole piece... I wouldn't say that. It gets very strange. Because he makes Red Dragon at 25th Hour right after that. Oh, that's true. 25th Hour is his last... It's Italian job where he's like,

I didn't want to be in this. And everyone's like, the movie's fine. He was legally obligated to be in the film. And then that's when he kind of gets into weird zones. Yes. Although, you know, some people like The Illusionist. I think he did good. He did Illusions.

The movie I like after that. For you. Painted Veil? No, the one I think is really good that no one ever talks about is Two Days in the Valley. Oh, yeah. I've seen that one. Down in the Valley. Down in the Valley.

Sorry. Two Days in the Valley is the, like, 90s sex thriller. But, yeah, Down in the Valley is good. Down in the Valley is really good and he's really good in it. I didn't see it. I saw the illusionists. I saw those illusions. Sorry.

Her argument was that he spent most of the 90s trying to live up to the reputation of his first five years. And those are the performances that arguably hold up the worst. Right. Because they're very big and broad. And it was when he was all about the capital A acting where it was about the challenge of what's the difficult thing an actor can do and show you how difficult this is. Like in Primal Fear he has a stutter. Yeah. Right. And in the score his like – his fake cover is that he pretends to be an intellectually disabled man.

That that is part of his con. Great. And she was like, it's the kind of performance where like he wants to call attention to the fact that what he is doing is so difficult. He's playing someone who's doing something that's difficult. And that is also the time when he starts developing Motherless Brooklyn. Right. That was supposed to come out like 2004 or whatever. And she was explaining that used to be this idea of acting was what kind of affliction, what different sort of identity that is outside of your own. Do you know how much he isn't in a wheelchair?

I'm looking at him in this movie in a wheelchair. Right, that became like so much the bar for acting was like, oh my God, Sean Penn, you won't believe this and I am Sam. That's when it starts to flip though, right? But he still gets the nomination. I feel like a couple years after that, people start going like, wait, is that cool? But that it was always viewed as like, oh my god, can you believe this? This actor's playing a guy with this.

You know? Like, oh my god. Javier Bardem is gonna be bedridden an entire movie? Like that sort of thing, which now is so like out of vogue. It is a little bit. Yeah. Was like at this point in time like, oh my god, Tandy Newton has been chosen to play the

woman the adult woman who speaks only in grunts and is constantly drooling like that was viewed as like oh she's gonna be a star and then you watch this performance now and you're like well she's really going for it but it's kind of uncomfortable to watch I re-watched the ending scene where all of the all the church women show up on the yard. And then Jason Robards is there. And then she's pregnant. And she's completely nude. She's naked.

She's screaming. She's got this hair. The hair is right. She's got a blanket. The hair is really happening. And then she's doing this thing with her teeth, which terrified me. Where it kind of seems like she looked like a cartoon like a Ren and Stimpy character because like one side of her mouth was going

one way the other side of her mouth was going the other way like they were just like the teeth were like crashing into each other slanted and I was just like how did she even do that to her mouth that's the thing like this performance is undeniably impressive on a technical level there are things she is doing physically and

vocally that I can't even imagine trying to do. Sure, she's magnetic. When she's on screen, you're interested in what she's doing, I suppose. And it's effective in how upsetting it is, which is the main thing this character should accomplish in the movie, I guess. Yeah, but, you know, it's kind of like, I don't know, I feel like a more dialed down performance would have been better. I agree. The other thing is that the movie a more dialed down performance would have been better. I agree. The other thing is that the movie is largely dialed down. This is not a movie that's like really scary.

It's not a movie that's trying to be like that. It is a Demi movie and it has that sort of like big heart of his. Which I think is probably. And so she is sort of totally on a different chart. I think this is probably why she hired Demi. Because you're like he made these two movies that deal with difficult things in a way that is lacking

in the sort of sense of self-importance or Hollywood gloss, you know, that deal with like, you know, the trauma of these things with appropriate weight

that are sort of graphic without being exploitative. You know, they don't feel salacious and that he was such a good actor's director that he can keep this away from melodrama. I imagine that's what

she was drawn to. But then Tandy Newton is in a different kind of movie. Yeah. She is in the more conventional sort of Oscar-weepy version of this film. Yeah. Jordyn, what do you think of Demi in general? I like him. Well, i like his movies um about

troubled white women those are that's kind of like there's something wild world i love something wild that's one of my absolute favorite movies i love love married to the mob we'll watch it at any point that it's on absolutely um rachel getting married really good. I'm a little more, I guess, lukewarm on some of his more, the movies that people give him awards for. I'm not really into Silence of the Lambs. Fair enough. I think that it's good, but I also think I waited a really long time to watch it, past the point to where it was a fundamental horror kind of thriller staple.

But yeah, no, I generally like him, but I just... It is this weird run that's a total outlier in his career, because there's a straight line in the 80s and the 70s of him building up his sort of voice and his own weird tonal balance, and then silence, Philadelphia, Beloved, and especially the gap between Philadelphia and Beloved I think is so telling. It's a long gap. Right, where by all accounts I think the sort of, the criticisms of transphobia against silence really hit him hard.

He felt very guilty. And he got Philadelphia off the ground very quickly as a sort of trying to make a corrective film. And then he seemed pretty content making documentaries. He only made one. Between 92 and 98? Yeah. What's the one he made?

Oh, boy. Let me look up his filmography. Didn't he make Cousin Bobby and Storefront Hitchcock? That's 92. So it's just Storefront Hitchcock. Same year. Well, it's between Silence and Philadelphia. Okay.

And then he makes Storefront Hitchcock in 98. Weird. So he really didn't do anything. He was really chilling. He seemed kind of out. He was chilling. Yeah. And Oprah kind of pulled him back in.

And then after this When Oprah comes knocking. But after this he like zags again. Sure. After this he makes Truth About Charlie and The Turing Candidate relatively quickly you know like 2002-2004. But Truth About Charlie while not entirely successful is him kind of

trying to get back to the 80's something wild energy. Goofy. Right. Despite it being a big studio film and ostensibly a thriller, you watch it and tonally it is far more similar to those 80s comedies. Is it good?

I have not seen it. It is very strange. It's very strange. Okay. It's far more interesting. I don't think it's going to settle your opinion on Tandy either. You can really go either way

with what she's doing in that one. Okay. The advantage she has there is that Mark Wahlberg, she seems cool, calm, and collected compared to Mark Wahlberg who is like, I don't know what I's doing in that one. The advantage she has there is that Mark Wahlberg, she seems cool, calm, and collected compared to Mark Wahlberg, who is like, I don't know what I'm doing here.

What is this? Is that supposed to be charade? It's charade, all right. But why would Mark Wahlberg? That's a great question. Will Smith dropped out. Will Smith was supposed to play the role. Oh, okay.

And they dropped out, and they were like, who has that energy? They should have just waited for, they should have just tried to get Will back. Uh-huh. Agreed. And we'll talk about that next week. You should see it. If you like Marriage of the Mob and Something Wild, it's of a piece of those.

And it's very in love with like French New Wave and sort of a weird homage. And like Agnes Varda pops up and things like that. Anna Karina pops up. Charles Aznavour pops up. It's very weird. And it's clearly one of those movies where everyone's having a nice time. It's not like, but it's fucking weird. It's fucking weird. But it is

not a movie that has the sort of important film sort of weight on it that this does. But I also feel like this is a movie where Demi is trying to, in terms of having the movie take place at a more modest pitch, that he is trying to steer this movie out of the self-importance that I think most filmmakers would attach to it. Especially if you're like the only person who's ever getting to adapt a Toni Morrison book.

Here's one. Oprah putting all of her weight behind it. I feel the movie is actually putting energy into trying to remain modest in its sort of tenor. Yeah. Here's the thing I just found out. Okay. Peter Weir was at one point attached to the rest. Interesting.

Oh my God. And Oprah fired him because he didn't want her to play the lead role. Weird. Which like Peter, relax want her to play the lead role. Weird. Which, like, Peter, relax. Let her play the lead role. She's a great choice for the lead role. Seems like a weird line to draw. Maybe he just thought, like, she's going to be the boss.

I won't be able to direct. Like, maybe he was just worried about, like, power balance stuff. But, like, it's her movie. Yeah. But that's the thing. This is kind of her movie. It is. I do think Demi, who has always been like a big collaborator.

That's what I was going to say. Maybe another reason she hires Demi is she is a notoriously collaborative filmmaker and she knows that ultimately she wants final say on this movie. And I mean, everything that she's doing, the way that she shot, the way that she's framed, she's great. She's great. Yeah. I feel.

I think she's really good. Yeah? Yeah. It's a very sad performance in all the right ways. Yeah. But it doesn't feel self-pitying. It doesn't feel showy. I mean, I kept on thinking about-

She's good in The Color Purple, too. As we said, she's basically good whenever she's in it. She's fantastic in The Color Purple. Loved her in that. Which Danny Glover is opposite in that. He's scary. Yeah, he is. I'm always fascinated by the phenomenon of movie stars who have another day job and just

occasionally decide to be movie stars. Right. In more recent years, as she's dropped into things like The Butler or Selma, she's always good. Yes. Yeah. You're like, oh, and you never are like, that's the most, like one of the most famous people on earth.

No. Which is tough because she's very famous. And even like Wrinkle in Time, where she No. Which is tough because she's very famous. And even like Wrinkle in Time where she is bug nuts. Well, she's very large. She's humongous. She's 100 feet tall. Right.

You never like you have to pull yourself out of the film to remind yourself. It is weird that I'm watching Oprah be the size of seven buildings. She's kind of well cast in that because they're supposed to be like superstars in that way. I'm a Wrinkle in time apologist. I really, really like that movie. I don't know what Griffin thinks exactly, but we are both definitely wrinkle in time. We're intrigued by a wrinkle in time. I'm fascinated by it. I truly could not make sense of it.

I have no value of that movie. It's a very interesting movie. I really, really loved it, but I also saw it at Alamo Drafthouse with a bunch of adults, which is, it was so weird to see that many adults there. Like, I have three little sisters, so when I go see kids' movies, I'm like, am I going to buy this DVD for my sisters? So that's why I'm there. So you didn't see it with them.

You were, like, pre-screening it. Yeah, yeah. And so it was just, like, to see all these adults there for, like, a pretty late screening of A Wrinkle in Time, I was just like, and then they were mad the entire time that it wasn't what they thought. I was just like, this is weird. It's a challenging film. It's a very strange film. I saw it at a theater where it had clearly been bought out like 40% of the audience by a church group.

And I saw like a weekend matinee. And it was at the Disney Theater, the El Capitan in LA, where before the movie they had an organist play a medley of songs. And they did a laser, like, indoor planetarium show. Okay. Where they, like, projected stars. It was very bizarre. And the movie had been out for, like, four weeks.

So there was, like, all this pomp and circumstance to, like, an 11 a.m like sunday screening wow that was mostly children and like group leaders yeah yeah it was a nice audience it was a nice audience they were very into the movie i could i just couldn't it is such a bizarre film in so many ways yeah yeah it definitely is love zach galifianakis in it i think he's great in it. He's good. I love Pine in it. I like Pine in it. Nope, I mean, Pine is like, I feel like the moment where he was, what was it? It was like the Oscars. They were doing a song from Selma. And he was crying. I feel like

it sent a signal to black people, including me, we want this man here. I literally remember him being hired by Ava for almost directly after that. Yes, because he just had this's like oh yeah he used to date Zoe Kravitz and now he's now he's crying.

And Jordaine what is the common thread between the Selma moment and Wrinkle in Time. He's got that hot ass gray beard. He really does. He looks so hot. He looks so fucking good. He should.

I know I assume in Wonder Woman 2 1984 he's just like plucked out of time or he's in her brain or something, but what if you updated him with a little beard? You give him an update. I would love that. That would be so good. I also love that he's

Spider-Man in Spider-Verse. He's good Spider-Man. Who's like a paragon? Yeah. What were you going to say? Sorry. No, I was watching, when I was re-watching the end of this movie this morning, just so that it was, like, fresh in my mind,

I was thinking so much about, have y'all seen Atlantics? Yes. Yes, I was just thinking so much about what Maddie Diep could have done with the material. I think, like, if this movie was made now, she's the person that I would want to do it. Absolutely. That is the weird contradictory. That movie has that kind of

tactile ghost stuff too. Yeah. Well I was going to say, it's the weird contradictory nature of like, it feels like the best adaptation of this movie. I mean you were saying miniseries, but I feel like the best adaptation of this movie is probably the ultra low budget one. Where you have to get very creative with limited resources and make something

that is more expressionistic. Yeah. You know in that kind of way. The stuff I like most in this movie is like when Danny Glover shows up on the porch and she brings him in and he just sees the red light as we were talking about. It's a

very effective and very simple little cinematic trick. Yeah. But there is a weird thing of like the most effective stuff in the movie. And even when you have the scenes where like the spirit is like attacking the house, there's something kind of charmingly like analog about those effects where you can tell it's just like pieces of furniture on strings. It moves like a very simple sort of like. It's funny because they don't do the poltergeist

stuff much after the first ten minutes and it is because poltergeists are on screen inherently goofy, right? Yes. Because it is just like, whoa! Like, you know, plates flying around. There's something kind of like charming about how lo-fi all of that stuff feels in terms of the actual manipulation of the objects in the room and things

like that. Yeah. And something like in Atlantics, the most striking thing in that movie is the way she uses mirrors, which is such a smart, like no budget solution for visualizing a very complicated thing that otherwise would probably be done with CGI if anyone was making that story on a larger scale. And it's that thing where like this movie shouldn't cost that much, but also you look at it and there are two massive movie stars in it, right, in every scene. And their costumes look so expensive.

And they're very expensive recreations. The Oscar-nominated costumes. And the house. I mean all these elements in the film that are supposed to look very ramshackle are ramshackle in a very expensive bespoke way. Yeah. You know? That's a problem that I does have that like 90s oscar movie kind of sheen yeah reading the book i think a lot about the feelings and a lot of the

the conflicts are internal like there's the sense that denver and sethi want to be haunted. And then when Paul D. comes, he gets rid of that haunting. And the reason why Denver does not like him is because that thing that she had that she somehow made her feel less alone isn't there anymore. And there's just a man here instead. And I feel like a lot of that stuff. That dynamic is kind of excised. And I think that that dynamic is the root of the story and it gets excised for stuff that I don't think necessarily works Denver is just not a character in the film until she needs to be until the latter half until the sort of the

scene with her and Denver is the driving like thing in the book like how she reacts to things her relationship with beloved when she realizes that beloved is actually her sister. That seems pretty excellent. Yeah. On Elise's part. Yeah. And so there's all that stuff.

And then of course, like Sethi's, um, kind of like internal thing is this idea of like, she wants to be happy, but she almost doesn't feel like she deserves to be happy because of what she's been through. And so like a lot of that internal stuff, I almost feel that Demi, I feel, gets at in other movies.

He has trouble getting at it in this movie. I think he was probably very tentative about his position as a white man making this film. I think he has talked about that he was like sort of intimidated when she offered it to him and had to be talked into doing it because he didn't feel like he was the right person to tell the story and only eventually signed on

because Oprah was so adamant that she thought he was. So I think, especially if you're trying to get at the internal life, you know, and it is such a specific internal life that is so specific to, like, a culture and a history and a place and an existence that is so outside of his own. I think he probably was afraid to tiptoe too much into it. I think you're right that probably the best version of this movie

is a little more abstract with that because Toni Morrison is a writer who is so much about the internal life and that is a thing that is very hard to translate literally into screenplay. As you said like the flashbacks are mostly just painful. I don't like the sort of

super saturation that he does and all the kind of like can you tell this horrible past is coming back to the right like it always feels way too like sort of obvious and i don't know yeah i mean i have this issue a lot with like kind of like the way that slave narratives i'm kind of of the opinion that most slave movies are bad just because i don't feel like we've found a good way to make a good one yet and yes i include 12 years of slave in

this i think it's bad um so it's weird it was kind of making me think of the flashbacks because I recently watched the Nate Parker Birth of a Nation. Saw you tweeting about this. It kind of reminded me of that. That movie stinks. No offense to it. It's real bad. Offense to it, I suppose.

It's real bad. Yeah. You were also saying. Another movie that was made cheaply obviously independent film but uh also yeah has all those annoying tricks of like dialing up the saturation or things like that just to convey like this is grim and brutal yeah hot and sweaty and things like yeah i just feel like there's something there's something more like the way that um setha describes sweet home in the book and this idea of like

you know on the one hand she's getting to have like a little bit of joy on the other hand it's like a terrible situation where she's dealing with these traumas and there's so much conflict in the way that she recalls that time and i don't catch any of that conflict in the movie maybe it's partly the Oprah problem or whatever. It's what you sort of have to contend with is that she's sort of becoming the main character. Right. Partly it's just her superstardom. And I don't, you know, she's driving the project.

And maybe that's sort of an inherent problem. It's like you're leaning too much on her. I think so much of her drive in making this film is I want to share this story with a larger audience. I mean, she viewed it in the way that she views endorsing any book on her show. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I know about, like, after

this movie, when it didn't go well, like, she was just, it's not even that she was, like, mad at black people for not coming, but she was just, like, disappointed. She was like a teacher. It's like, I made this thing, and it's, like, really and y'all didn't come out but it's also just like the way that it was packaged kind of like the way that it was done it wasn't it doesn't really ease you in in the in a way that like for example the color purple did because you know that's that spielberg that's like a his whole a lot of the genius genius of Spielberg it's that you can take this really hard

subject matter but he's like he's pulling you in emotionally and he's kind of easing you into the like the harsher aspects yeah I mean she's talked about when this movie came out and bombed it was the only time she has ever experienced depression in her life

well not the only no she's talked about other I'm going to read you this quote from Wikipedia what were you going to say depression in her life. Well, not the only, no. She's talked about other. I'm going to read you this quote from Wikipedia. What were you going to say? Sorry. She's had some very. I know she's had a traumatic life.

That's why. She talked about how she ate mac and cheese all day and gained 30 pounds and then realized later that she was depressed. Right. But I do think that this was a huge low point for her. And I mean, I think that that was part of of I talked about this a little bit when I wrote about the women of Brewster Place, where it kind of feels like black women and those stories kind of had to move to television to get seen. And I think that Oprah kind of after this movie was just like, OK, well, I'm just putting it on TV now. Because I feel like in, if we would have asked her like a long time ago, it's like, oh, what are you gonna,

if you're gonna make Their Eyes Were Watching God with Halle Berry, you'd want it to be on the big screen. And instead, it's not. It's a movie that a lot of people have not seen. It's just a television movie. Well, and the shift becomes, like she will loan her Oprah powers

to another filmmaker. She will help assist them in getting the movie made. She'll champion it. But she's no longer driving the bus on her film projects. And she starts acting again essentially when she leaves network TV. When she moves to own and she starts doing The Daily Show. I want to read you this quote because I know Oprah has lived through a lot in her life. I understand.

I'm sure she said something. This is her quote. But she literally left a suicide note. I'm very aware. I just want to read you her quote in her own words. The quote. She said it was the only time in my life that I was ever depressed and I recognize that I was depressed because I've done enough shows on the topic.

Oh, this is what people must feel like who are depressed. I just have to assume she means post-fame. That's such a wild thing for her to say. Right, isn't it insane? She's talked about, literally, I was so depressed I wrote a suicide note. I'm very aware.

That's so weird. That's like if I got famous and then went on a talk show and it's just like, ugh, when this movie bombed, I have never been through any struggle. That's why it jumped out to me because I'm like, this is someone who's been very open with all the traumas

of her life and how she built her life and she's the great empath and she's always explaining her own experiences against the experiences of people on the show. She says it's the low point of her entire career. I think she really thought that this was going to be big.

Which is crazy. And I don't mean that in a mean way exactly. It's just sort of like how the sort of tunnel vision one might sort of get with these kinds of projects because this is not a commercial film. No. It's very long. It's melancholy and it's slow and it's sort of meandering and like it's not plotty. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of.

It's not a word of mouth movie exactly no it's like a very i noticed this a lot with like when a when an actor or director or producer has this passion project when it comes out it's always not what they expected yeah the gestation period the tunnel vision everything but there's also this idea that like if it's very very urgent for you to make it you assume that it's very very urgent for everyone to see it. You assume that it's very, very urgent for everyone to see, which is, that's a great point. That's,

that's probably the sort of the way she's thinking about it. But remember, I read, found some quote from Demi where he's like the movie made $22 million. It played fine. And eventually got pulled from theaters because Disney wanted the screens for the water boy, which is wild. Disney wanted the screens for the water boy.

It's a whole other thing to think about. But like, he's right. other thing to think about. Wow. But like, he's right. Like this movie, you know, played like an award sort of like prestige movie. He's like,

this movie's a failure because it cost $80 million and was promoted by Oprah. And Disney. But this film making $22 million is kind of bizarre. Right. This is not a commercial film. Yeah. I think the thing was that this was like,

the time between Color Purple and this film, Oprah just has this meteoric rise. You know, she was already a big deal, but then she just becomes bigger and bigger and bigger culturally every year after that. And she was this person who could kind of make anyone a star, you know, could make any product successful,

could make any book successful. She could make careers single-handedly. And I think she believed, even though this was difficult, uncommercial material, that if I devote a week of shows, if I spend months talking about my involvement in this film, that my audience will show up, that my audience is so baked in that they will show up for this. Yeah. Well, I think that's a miscalculation of what people will read versus what they watch.

But also there's the fact, and I've been writing about this, so it's fresh in my mind. When the Oscars decided to go from five to ten nominations is when more black films made their way into the Oscars. Before that, it was like, I think there were only like four films with primarily black cast that were nominated for Best Picture. I think it was like A Soldier's Story, Sonder, Color Purple, one other, Ray. I think Ray was the other one.

Ray. He's Ray. He's Ray. So it was like, the thing about it is that now it's normal to see all of these prestige black films of Beale Street could talk and all of these things

but in the time that this was made, it did not have the kind of audience or the kind of award space that it would need to really make an impact. Yeah. Well, I think that was also like part of the calculus of when there were black filmmakers making films with black cast,

they would always hit a sort of glass ceiling in terms of Oscar credibility, where it's like Singleton can get the best director nomination, but Boys in the Hood is not going to get best picture. It's not going to get any acting nominations, you know? And Do the Right Thing can get like screenplay, but it's not going to get Best Picture. It's not going to get any acting nominations. And Do the Right Thing can get screenplay but it's not going to get director of picture and the only cast member nominated is the white guy. And in the 90s

specifically there no black films were nominated for Best Picture and also it was like black people were mostly out of the Oscars in the 90s with a few caveats like honorary awards, what's love got to do with it the Oscars in the 90s with a few caveats like honorary awards what's love got to do with it

and like a couple things like that but for some reason the entire 90s is like mostly a blank spot and it's an interesting time because that was when a lot of interesting experimental black films were being made on a constant basis. In the independent world.

It was kind of dropping up. You have your Just Another Girl and the IRTs and East Bayou. Cassie Lemons. Yeah. What was the thing I was going to say? The other movie I kept on thinking about in relation to this, not as a film but as a cultural thing, is Malcolm X. Where the movie is announced and Warner Brothers has hired Norman Jewison who at that time

was viewed as the ally filmmaker he's the one filmmaker who makes films about black people you know consistently and Spike Lee

led this big outcry of like this should not be directed by a white man and it was like months of sort of like public sort of debate about it and then

Norman Jewison stepped down and Spike Lee made the film. And the film was fairly successful, but it also was like viewed as, oh, it's a Denzel thing and it didn't get the other Oscar nominations

that it seemed to get. You know, it was him very deliberately trying to make- It was certainly a big prestige movie. Right, a big prestige movie. But there was always that ceiling. And to some degree, Oprah, who is a very canny businesswoman, I wonder if she thought you need a white director with a proven oscar acceptance track record to be able to

permeate that right well that's what happened with color purple so i understand why she would think right uh and she got an oscar nomination of course and yeah um let me read you something i found i found a sort of summary of the coffee table book. Okay. So there's a point at which apparently Oprah, you know, her acting style is, you know, very empathetic and very, right? Like sort of emotional.

She's an emotional actress. And as Demi diplomatically described, quote, if Oprah had any work to do, it was to not confuse her empathy with how Sethe feels. There was a scene in which Sethe described what freedom feels like. Demi was shooting around her and then

sat down with Oprah and said, like, we're gonna turn the camera around and shoot Danny today. And we'll do you tomorrow. And Oprah was, like, totally crushed because she's like, I know I'm blowing this. Like, I'm fucking this up. Like, Demi was trying to be, like, sweet about it because she's like, I know I'm blowing this. Like I'm fucking this up. Like Demi was trying to be like sweet about it. But like Oprah could tell like they were kind of like she's not figuring this out. She's just being Oprah initially.

And then Toni Morrison came to set and watched one scene and said, why are you playing angry here? That character is not angry in this scene. You know, like she's just watching Oprah and she's like, mm-mm, this isn't how I wrote this. Yeah. And Winfrey freaked out, went to her trailer and, like, started crying.

It was like, Tony hates me. And they had to be like, Tony, go away. You're freaking her out. Like, so,

like, she was, in waking this movie, she was freaked out. She was like, I can't get this wrong. It's definitely, this is,

it's fascinating stuff. Can I read you this quote that I found that I think is really interesting? This is her talking about the movie in 2013. Demi also says, like, it was her movie. And if she felt strongly about something, I was fine to defer. Because talking about this idea of, like, you know,

why did she think that this film could work on this budget level at this size as a major Oscar thing, right? In 2013, Winfrey reflected on the film saying, to this day, I ask myself, was it a mistake? Was it a mistake to not try and make it a more commercial film? Take some things out and tell the story differently so that it would be more palatable to an audience.

Well, if you want to make a film that everybody would see, then that would be a mistake. But at the time, I was pleased with the film that we did because it represented to me the essence of the beloved book. Which is the weird sort of like nether zone this movie is caught in, which like it's a pretty literal faithful adaptation of a thing that is hard to adapt literally. It is pretty unsparing in terms of what it's doing and its lack of commercial concern. It's buoyed by her confidence that she could make anything commercial.

So it doesn't sort of play the audience in a way that a more sort of satisfying, weepy Oscar film that probably would not age well would have done at the time. But it also is boosted up by the confidence of her being such an industry in and of herself that she didn't even conceive of the idea that maybe the best way to make this movie is for like $5 million. Right. You know, even if it is with Demi, to not burden it with that sort of pressure on itself. I mean, another thing I kept thinking about watching this is the unmade Lynn Ramsey, Lovely Bones, where she talks about so much that she read that book, she loved it, she bought

the rights herself before the book became a big hit and spent like eight years trying to make that film in her like sort of netherlands of her career after Morven Caller and was pretty close to getting it made. And then Peter Jackson read the book and went, I want this. And Alice Sebald like, you know, ripped up the contract

and was like, well, he's Peter Jackson. We have to let him make it. And that movie. Yeah. And Lynn Ramsey talks about where shed like, you know, ripped up the contract and was like, well, he's Peter Jackson. We have to let him make it. And yeah. And Lynn Ramsey talks about where she was like, I mean, that movie is bananas bad. A nightmare. Yeah. But Lynn Ramsey talks about she was like, I loved the book, but I also understood there was no way to make a literal adaptation of it.

Right. And the larger the scale and the budget became, the more you would have to distort what the book was actually about in order to make it more commercial. And she was like, my version of it was very abstract, which I think is the only way it would work. And Peter Jackson talks about when, like making the film, like how many of his decisions were business minded. He was like, well, I love this book, but obviously that doesn't work in a movie that costs a hundred million dollars. You know, that immediately that calculus had to happen of like, well, they're letting me use all the CGI. I feel obligated to make a movie that could possibly do well, which is this contradictory thing with a book like this where you kind of can't burden it with that.

Which is such a wild thing to hear from the person who made Heavenly Creatures. I know. But it's like what a great example of like you can't go home again. No. But it's like, what a great example of like, you can't go home again. You know, when he announced that he was making that, you're like, oh my God, is Peter Jackson going to go back to heavenly creatures mode? Right. And then you're like, wait, no.

Like, why does this have so many special effects? Right. It costs a hundred million dollars. Why is a ship in a bottle crashing through the window or whatever? All that shit. Like all this shit. Another movie that Mark Wahlberg seems very anxious to be in. He's just like, why am I here?

And was also cast like- A last minute replacement also cast like 10 days before it started filming. Because Ryan Gosling was too fat? Well, he got fat to make up for how young he felt he was. It was one of those things where people were like, I heard he got fired because he gained a weird amount of weight. And then people were like, no, he didn't. And then like a year later, like, yeah, no, that's what it was. It was really weird. He felt like he was too young.

Peter Jackson was like, I think you're the guy. Right. He gained a lot of weight and made himself look shitty to try to look older. Right. And then Peter Jackson was like, what's your take on the character? And he's like, it's like an overweight, depressed guy. Like, he grew a beard. Yeah.

Oh, my God. And got really soft. Right. And then he was like, this is not my take on the character. And then fired him. Wow. That's amazing. Very weird.

Yeah. Yeah, the bigness of the, like, I keep on thinking about, like, I don't know, like, how I would imagine Their Eyes Were Watching God, which I feel like is, like, a very, you know, small, personal story. And I was just like, oh, my God, what if there was a their eyes were watching God adaptation like this beloved adaptation like there's so much I'm actually surprised there I guess it's just because Morrison has held on to her rights but that there hasn't been another

Morrison adaptation I would really like there to be one now I feel like now that right there's a lot of people out there who could take a swing yeah and there are just like a lot of people out there who could take a swing. Yeah. And there are just like a lot of really interesting black women directors that are making like, like Dee Rees making Mud Bounds.

Like, I feel like she could do a Toni Morrison. Right. Definitely. Maddie Diep, as you said. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Definitely her. Yeah.

I feel like it's the time and I kind of, it's just, I mean, I love Toni Morrison. I cried when she died, but it's like, it would have been so great if we would have been able to get another one right that she could see. But I think now would be a pretty opportune time to do it, especially so that we can maybe move. Because I mean, as much as I have issues with Beloved, it was refreshing to watch it because it was not like all of the movies about cops that I've been seeing lately. Sure. Very tired of seeing cops.

Like I would just love to see black people do something that has nothing to do with cops. But there are 21 bridges. There's 21. I have to know this. The thing that's wildest about 21 bridges, you know this, right? Is that there are 17 bridges in and out

of New York. And the movie was initially called 17 Bridges and was about like, you gotta raise all the bridges or whatever. There are also four tunnels out of New York. So if you add it, you got 21 exits. Right? And I think they just suddenly announced that the movie was called 21 Bridges.

Yeah, without explanation. And what data cruncher was like, audiences like 21 more than they like 17. Just make it happen. It should have been called 17 Bridges and 4 Tunnels. Right, really specific. Lift the tunnels. I mean, maybe it was too close. There was that movie 16 Blocks.

Maybe they were just like, oh 17 it's just a 17 bridge 17 bridges, 18 tunnels 19 fairies, let's just keep going yeah I'm just kind of tired Naomi Harris recently which is another actress that was kind of like like Tandy Newton Kimberly Elise, Naomi Harris

they were all kind of plugging away at around the same time and so I was like oh my god Naomi Harris is doing something post-Moonlight. Her first lead role ever. And then it's just like black and blue, and it's like her and Tyrese. And I'm just, I'm tired. Black and blue is a real crowdsource title, too. You know, because the cops, that's blue, and she's black.

We're done, right? Have the two of you seen that film? You've seen that film? I have not. Okay, so I saw it in theaters. Is there any reason you saw it in theaters? Because I'm a big Naomi Harris fan. She's great.

I love Naomi Harris. And I also, I'm quietly a huge Tyrese fan, largely because of the Fast and Furious franchise. Tyrese is very funny. But I always, like, I wish he did more film work. Yeah, baby boy. I mean, remember when he sort of started acting and he was like, oh, this wish he did more film work. Yeah, baby boy. I mean, remember when he sort of started acting and he was like, oh, this guy's going to be something. You know what great Tyrese movie you should watch?

What? Waste Deep. I don't know if you've seen Waste Deep. I rewatched it recently because I was reviewing Queen and Slim. Yeah. Waste Deep is the better Queen and Slim. I believe that. Is that Monty Curtis Hall?

It's Monty Curtis Hall. I believe it's his glitter follow like it's his first movie after glitter it's so wild because glitter is so bad but waist deep is so good

waist deep and gridlocked Vondie Curtis Hall make another movie Vondie yeah Casey Lemons' husband I believe right

yes he is I want to say I kind of like Black and Blue fair enough oh is it good it's kind of good okay well I'm gonna watch it I was just like I kind of like Black and Blue. Fair enough. Oh, is it good? It's kind of good. Okay, well, I'm going to watch it.

I was just like... I mean, I'm going to watch that shit on HBO. I was just tired. I was just like, okay, I'm going to the movies. I'm going to see this thing about a cop again. Yeah, totally. But like, it's good to hear that it's good. It's not great.

Sure. But I think it's a pretty interesting balance between... Wasn't there also just... Yes. If we can just keep talking about black actors who like fully prove they're bona fides and then get ignored by Hollywood. David Oyelowo.

Yes. Also, didn't he have a cop movie this year with like time travel or something? Yes, he did. Don't Let Go. It's called Don't Let Go. Right. With Storm Reid of Wrinkle in Time.

Blumhouse is so weird. Well, they'll like do a big rollout for certain movies and they're just like, you have to see this. And then there's stuff like Don't Let Go where Blumhouse is so weird well they're like do a big rollout for certain movies and they're just like you have to see this and then there's stuff like Don't Let Go where Blumhouse is like

well here it is anyway I think it premiered at Sundance with a different title and it was a very different cut it was called Relive

when it was at Sundance from the director of Mean Creek that's true I did not know that everything about that movie is weird. And it was like a weird Blumhouse dump that also wasn't released by Universal, which almost every other Blumhouse film is.

That's weird. Yeah. The other thing that that guy made was a movie called The Details, which has a poster where a piano is going to fall on Tobey Maguire's head. Oh, yes. I've seen that one. You've seen this? Yes.

This does not seem like a real movie. I watch a lot of not real movies. This seems like you would put the DVD in, the DVD would be just like playing trailers, and you keep pressing menu, and the DVD's like cannot perform functionally. Come on, where's the movie? And it just would never play.

Well, it's one of those things where Tobey Maguire's playing against type as a dick, but then when you find out that he's kind of like a dick in real life, it's like, oh, is he playing himself? Sure, sure. Not as interesting. Yeah. Tobey Maguire, Elizabeth Banks, Dennis Haysbert, Ray Liotta, Kerry Washington, Laura Linney.

It's one of those indie movies. I feel like at the beginning of Sundance, it was like throw a bunch of actors in a thing, and we're going to all watch it. But now it's like throw a bunch of actors in a thing, and nobody's going to watch it. There'll be three that they do but most of them they don't

but the more big name actors in a Sundance movie in a way the more it's signaled that it's probably a turkey yeah you are one with two

really good performances yeah I'm thinking of one like called like Butter where it's something about like a I remember Butter it's about a butter sculpting competition

it was like a blacklist script where everyone in the cast was like a huge name that was very much one of those the happy Texas's right you know where it's like coming out of Sundance or Telluride or whatever and people are like oh this is no this is good and like Hugh Jackman's the

fifth lead yeah he's the I think he's the and I think he got an and I feel like the only recent movie that I can think of where it's like throw a bunch of people in and it's good is like Logan Lucky. I mean, great take. Great, great movie. Soderbergh's good at that though. And when he puts a lot of people

in a movie, it's an eclectic bunch. Like it feels like he's curated pretty well. Right. The cast. Loved Daniel Craig's fake southern accent. Didn't realize that the fake southern accent didn't realize that the fake southern accent is just his thing now he loves it he loves to put it on like an old smoking jacket like foghorn leghorn yes he does and i'm and i'm from georgia and so i'm like i'm like a cop of like sure southern accents i'm just like what region are you he gets away with it

where by just being there's he no, he's just so, he's so strange. He's so weird. And he commits to it so much. Right. And I also think that he's tired of being boring. I feel like that's his new thing now. I think he's just like,

I never want to be James Bond if I can help it. I want to be as goofy as possible. I want to be funny. Here's some other things about Beloved I want to tell you guys. Can I ask one question very quickly about Knives Out before we move on? All right. Why doesn't he have a mustache in that movie? I don't know.

Maybe they put one on him and it looked terrible. He's looked good with a mustache before. He should have a mustache in that movie. Watching it, that performance needs a mustache. It's my biggest criticism of the film. Do you think it's just because then it's too Poirot-y? It's like, what's Poirot famous for? The stache.

Maybe you could give him a different mustache. Sure. I'd settle for a beard or a goatee, a Van Dyke. But you remember how, like, you know, obviously Poirot, he's got the mustache.

Yes. And then, like, Finney, when he does it, he's got the little mustache net. Very curled, yeah. Right, and then so Branagh was like, rather than scale back, we're scaling up.

Two mustaches. Like, my mustache is right. It's exactly. A double layer mustache. Yes. So maybe they saw that and were like, no, we can't top that. My biggest complaint with Knives Out

is I'm watching and I'm like, that is Daniel Craig. He needs a mustache. I need to have that face a little hidden. Here's some Beloved facts. Lauren Hill was the original choice to play Beloved. Interesting. And had to drop out because she was pregnant. Lauren Hill often pregnant, obviously had several children

in this time. That would have been a really interesting take. It would have been. She's great in like the few movies that she's in. Yeah, she is. And this is sort of

the end of Lauren Hill as like major star before she begins her sort of public recluse kind of, right. Let's see. Right, this was right at the time where she was

at the top of the world before she sort of pulls a little bit. Sister's great in sister act two is sister act two better than sister act one is that one of those i think they're different movies different movies i've only ever seen yeah just like different um tones yeah okay yeah okay uh rachel portman did two scores for the film and one of them was entirely thrown out. Wow. I don't know. I don't have a lot here.

That's actually all the trivia I found. All right, fine. Tak Fujimoto shot it, of course. Yeah. Demi's the usual guy. Gary Goetzman. I don't know. It came out in October.

It made a little bit of money, got an Oscar nomination, and that was that. And Oprah ate a lot of mac and cheese and felt really bad. She said, I mean, we'll get to the box office. She and that was that and Oprah ate a lot of mac and cheese and felt really bad right she said I mean we'll get to the she said that

I've never had a child and this is the closest thing I have to a child which is a wild thing to say about a movie that I feel like now the perspective on Beloved

is like it's not a bad movie it's an interesting artifact of it's time it's a bit of a noble failure perhaps right you know like it's not like you watch it and you're like,

oh my god, what a train wreck. It's more just sort of like, oh, I can see why this didn't work. I can see things about it that are interesting. You never hear anyone ardently defending it. No, but it's not like... People don't roll their eyes and go, oh, it was an Oprah Vanity thing. It sucked.

It doesn't have that path. And I don't really think her choices were really driven by vanity either. No, no. No, I think she just didn't know how to make something small at this point. And I think she wanted Toni Morrison to have an adaptation that big.

You know, I think there was a certain nobility in her saying this needs to be a major film. This needs to be a major studio picture. Yeah. But then you watch the movie and, like, the second shot in it is a dog being slammed against a wall and its eyeball falling out of its socket. Well, the first few minutes, right, with the eyeball? Yeah. The sort of milking flashback is almost immediate.

Yeah. Some of the most intense stuff is very early. The first 30 minutes, you're like, this is a movie. The sort of gushing pee scene. Remember that? This is the signs of the lampstone maker. This is him making the same sort of visceral horror.

I love bugs on a person. I love that trick. You know in Candyman, great movie, when he has all the bees on him. Those are just bees like you can't fake that maybe now you could but back then you couldn't

so he just has fucking bees on him what's the 2000 horror movie where the bugs keep on landing on the woman's eye bugs keep on landing that's something from like I mean sounds horrible I'm forgetting

I think you just like have to put sugar all over yourself the bug lands on her eye and she doesn't blink or whatever I don't know yeah

something but yeah it does settle down after that though yeah to put sugar all over yourself. The bug lands on her eye and she doesn't blink or whatever. I don't know. Something. But yeah, it does settle down after that though. Yeah. Yeah. And that becomes mostly about two people

in a house reckoning their past. But then there's the very long flashback sequence with the Lisa Gay Hamilton. No, no, no, no.

Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. Lisa Gay Hamilton is young beloved but the white woman in Denver is not young beloved. I mean, young Sethi Gay Hamilton is young beloved. But the one with Denver. Is not young beloved. I mean, young Sethi.

She's good, actually. She is, yeah. Only 10 years younger than Oprah. It's kind of a choice to have someone play that character. Like, you compare this to the Irishman, right? Where they're like, no, it has to be the same person playing every age. Technology be damned. I love that it's Lisa Gay Hamilton

I do too and I also think that she looks close enough to Oprah where it makes sense it's just funny that even oh if the character's 10 years younger you cast a different person I miss that bring that back yeah I like having multiple actors play the same character yeah it's fun I mean it's great in Moonlight I don't

yeah it fucking rules I agree this is the whole thing I don't mind the Irishman do your thing it's fine like give it a shot but like I agree it's like we Moonlight. I don't... Yeah, it fucking rules. This is the whole thing. I don't mind the Irishman do your thing. It's fine. Like, give it a shot. But like, I agree. It's like, we are all used to the cinematic convention

of like, I understand that this is younger X. Yeah. Yes. It's been done for 100 years. We're used to it. And I also understand that if you put a shitty wig

on Robert De Niro, I'll go, okay, I get it. He's 50 now. Exactly. Great. If you want him to play the 50-year-old version. If you want to see him beat the shit out of someone on a curb,

maybe you want to hire a young guy. Yeah. That everyone's. I kind of love that. No, I mean, I love the movie, but I also saw it like drunk at Alamo draft house where I watch movies in the

middle of the night. And it was just like, I mean, it was so great, but I feel like if I was watching it at home in a Netflix environment where I could pause, then I would have noticed. So now I kind of want to go home and look at it. I'm going to rewatch it on Netflix.

Because people have been talking about that scene and I don't remember it being. When I watched it in the theaters, he's kicking the shit out of the guy. It scares his daughter. I get it. And yeah, then people post the gif and I'm like, yeah, okay. I see that he's like, yeah,

a mile off the guy's face when he kicks him. But whatever. But I think that also – James Caan punches the guy in The Godfather and misses him. Yeah. I think that speaks to the immersion of watching something in a theater where you're like so involved in the story that by the moment a scene like that happens, you are caught up in the context of the thing. And you're not as focused on the details. You are caught up in the context of the thing and you're not as focused on the details.

Whereas if you're watching it on Netflix and it's a three and a half hour movie and you're probably checking your phone a bunch and taking breaks and watching with other people or talking or whatever it is. By the time that scene comes up, you're like, what the fuck is going on? Those are not the shoulders of a 30-year-old man. Yeah. Yeah. Which flashback were you talking about, David? The kicking. The kicking. Kicking. Kick. He's kicking outside the grocery store. No, no, no. yeah which flashback were you talking about David the kicking the kicking kicking

he's kicking outside the grocery store no no no in Beloved oh the Lisa Gay Hamilton flashback Amy Denver Amy Denver

the white woman who saves her that scene is long and crazy okay okay it's so weird out of all of the flashbacks to spend so much time on

the white woman one was such the weirdest choice. And it feels almost like a dream. You're like, who is this character? It's in the book. I know that's why she's called Denver. It was just weird. And this character is so big. She was making me think of Amy Poehler.

It's a bizarre performance. And then she's like, I've got a boat over here. Come over here. But it's like, yes, all that things happen. But in terms of the things that we need to know about Sethi, that is that right. That's not the traumatic part is when she met a wild white lady who had a boat.

And it's like, I mean, that's how Denver was named, but that's something that you mentioned in a book. Like it makes sense in the book, but in the movie, it's not like any one of the movies. Like,

but why is she called Denver? Right. And it's also just like the milk. Like, what's interesting reading the book is that the buildup to finding out about her milk getting taken and her being like assaulted. There's a lot of buildup to it when she reveals it. She's very upset. The aftermath of it is really huge. Like, that's a big reveal.

And in the movie, it's just like this weird, bizarre flashback. And it's like, no, this was an assault and this needs time. Yeah. They feel so much more stylized than the present tense version. I do not like the stylization. Oh, yeah, no, I do not like the style.

And then there's that scene where like Wes Bentley and Jude Ciccacella are looking on in horror at her having murdered her child that mostly focuses on their faces. I also think that scene is sort of strangely calibrated. I don't like that scene. I think they're all strangely calibrated.

All the performances are weird. And there's also, we haven't talked at all about Hill Harper, who is kind of like a big deal in the 90s and really is not a big deal anymore. But Hill Harper plays her, plays Hallie, plays her ex, the one who deserts her

yes and i honestly feel like there should have been more time with hill there's very little of that right that's the thing in the book there is like you learn about their entire courtship and then basically like i mean the movie says but like he goes crazy because he sees this terrible thing happen to her and part of it is because he realizes he cannot protect her. And so that's a whole thing. It's like, oh, I cannot protect this woman. How can I build a life with her if I can't protect her from these white people, if I can't give her a home, if I can't make her feel safe?

That's a whole thing. And I think so much of Seppi's trauma is tied up in that, that I just think that it deserved more time and there need to be less time with kind of like the sensationalism of it. Well, and they treat it sort of just like a plot twist without ever giving you any sense of who he was as a guy. Yeah, he was like a great guy, like the way that she like she loved him very much and like he deserts her I mean she's angry and she has a right to be angry but he deserts her because he realizes how powerless he is as a black man and how he cannot be the kind of husband that he wants to be for her and I think that Hill Harper could have done that work if they would have given him space to do that work

right it's also that thing of like if you show him at his best, if you have any scenes of him and young Sethe where you understand their relationship, his absence will mean more to the audience than just having him exist as a name that's mentioned with sort of resentment. You know, you want to be able to like dramatize why he was important.

Yeah. It's also wild that the first scene of the movie is her son he was important. Yeah. It's also wild that the first scene of the movie is her son's running away. Yeah. Because it's so disorienting to have that be the first thing in the movie.

Is that the first thing in the book? I don't remember that being the absolute first thing. It's early. It's early. She mentions it but the son's moving away

isn't like a super important thing. It's not a big deal. It's true. Like when Danny Glover shows up he's like I get it you know

gotta move on sometimes and also you live in a haunted house which is scary yeah the sons moving away was a weird way to start it the opening is just

very disorienting perhaps intentionally and the rest of the movie is not no the rest of the movie is much more ruminative and like

exposition is sort of given out you know Albert Hall shows up. He's good. Unfolds the little newspaper. You know, like, you know, I like those scenes. Fine.

Yeah. I don't know. Is there anything else we. I like I like the ghost stuff the best just because I like ghost stuff. The ghost stuff is good. There should have been more ghost stuff. And it's the stuff that feels the most cinematic. Yes.

You know, that's most unique to this work being translated into this medium. Right, right. Let's play the box office game. Okay, now I know what beat it because when Oprah tells her story about how depressed she was. You don't know. You don't know. I know I think you think you know. Oh, was that not number one?

No, it was not. Okay, because her anecdote was she said, I just remember that weekend when it came out, being told, you're getting beaten by something called Chucky. Yeah. And I was so depressed and ate 40 pounds of mac and cheese. 30 pounds. Sorry.

But you're telling me that Bride of Chucky was not number one at the box office. It was number two. Okay. Bride of Chucky opened that week to $11 million. Okay. It's a fun movie. Yeah, good film. John Waters is in it.

He's in two Chucky films. He's also in- He's in Seed or- Seed of Chucky. Yeah, it's a fun movie. Yeah, good film. John Waters is in it. He's in two Chucky films. He's also in Seed. Seed with Chucky. Yeah, it's a fun movie. That movie came out and made $11 million. We're going to guess the top five of the Griffins. Creep, who knows, the box office from every single weekend. Yeah, I like to creep on those box office charts.

So Beloved opened at number five. It's at number five. It opened to $8 million in mid-October. Crazy. Ended up at $22 million. Sort of at number five. It opened to $8 million in mid-October. Crazy. Ended up at $22 million. Sort of a regular performance. Demi and Oprah say that the claim was the film was not connecting.

Disney had the Waterboy, which was coming out, was tracking very big, so they wanted to hand over screens. And what they promised Oprah and Demi was that they were going to take the movie out of theaters primarily, and then when they expected that the Oscar nominations would come in, they would re-release it. Which they did do, but much smaller than probably anticipated.

Right, so they re-released it in March after it had only gotten one nomination, which is Best Costumes, and it did an additional $300,000 at number 12 at the box office, and then was done. But opening weekend five. Okay. And Bride of Chucky, indeed, number two. Number two.

A comic take on the Chucky universe. It was beaten by Chucky, indeed, number two. Number two. A new comic take on the Chucky universe. It was beaten by Chucky, just not in first position. Correct, exactly. But number one. I just like her saying something called Chucky. Number one is a movie that I really like. Ooh. Based on a book.

It's a new movie this week. Okay. Two actresses. What did it do this weekend? 13. 13. It's not a huge weekend. It's October. It's not like a hot time.

It is a spooky movie. Sort of. But it's not a horror film. Horror is too strong. I would say. Spooky. It made 46 million dollars in America. Eventually. Based on a book. Two women star. two female stars.

Is it Practical Magic? It's Practical Magic. It's Practical Magic. What do we think of Practical Magic? Never seen it. Rude. I know you love it. It's a wine, let's bring the girls in movie.

It's a Nancy Meyers movie, except it's about two women who can't stop killing and resurrecting their boyfriends. Well, I've always said Griffin Dunn is the wino Nancy Meyers. Genuinely, like both of them are basically like, I just keep either killing or resurrecting my boyfriend. Yeah. And, you know, these dark forces that I'm allied with, they're really fucking up my plan to raise a kid and live in a nice house. Sounds pretty impractical to me. So good. So Practical Magic.

Okay, number one. With Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman more in like sort of her like, you know, sort of sultry phase. Like 90s Nicole Kidman, right? Number three is an animated film. Okay. I'm just giving you that to see if you... Ants?

Yes. I figured that's all you needed. Yeah. Ants. Man, that soundtrack was burning up my disc, man, at that point in time. What's on the think. Ants? Yes. I figured that's all you needed. Yeah. Ants. Man, that soundtrack was burning up my disc, man, at that point in time. What's on the soundtrack of Ants?

The score for Ants. Listen to it all the time. And who composed the score for Ants, Braytel? Ooh, great question. That's a movie that I have trouble re-watching as an adult.

I do too. Is there anything up with that? Wait, is there anyone weird involved with it or anything like that? I think it's also just like a very sexual movie once you realize, like once you're an adult. I do too. Is there anything up with that? Wait, is there anyone weird involved with it or anything like that? I think it's also just like a very sexual movie once you realize,

like once you're an adult and you realize what everybody's talking about and specifically who is talking. And then it's just like kids watching it? I will say this.

It's so insane that kids watch that movie. I think it's a well-written film written by Chris Weitz and Paul Weitz. It is very bizarre. Katzenberg was famously on one in the 90s about

trying to fuck Pixar, right? Right. When Pixar came in with Toy Story and he was like, oh my god, here's a new animation studio that doesn't have the reputation that Disney does. He was like, I want to make a very adult animated film. And he almost fucked up Toy Story and then they backed off and regained control over it.

So then when he goes over to DreamWorks, Ant feels like him being like, see, this is what I was trying to make the whole time. And everyone's like, okay. It also looks terrible. It looks real cruddy. They rushed it. CGI, obviously. They wanted to beat A Bug's Life even though they started

animation a year after A Bug's Life. And now A Bug's Life isn't even really that well regarded. No, it's crazy. Although Bugs Life slaps. But yes, Ants is Very Weird, number three at the box office. Who are the composers? Two.

Henry Gregson Williams? Well, Harry. He goes by Harry. Sorry. But yes. That's one of the two? Yeah. Fuck. I mean, give me some credit for getting one of the two. Good job. the second one more or less of a name similar it's not it's not David Newman no but that vibe it's not David Demby no not David just like a David Newman type he's still working he's a guy he's like a replacement

level composer he's a replacement level composer you know what I mean and not to be rude to him I've actually liked some scores he's done. Has he ever gotten an Oscar nomination? That I'm gonna have to look up. Once. For his best score. Another animated score. It's another animated score. Yes.

And it's not a Disney or a Pixar I would imagine. Dreamworks. DreamWorks. Much like this. It's a DreamWorks. Was it Prince of Egypt? No.

This is taking too long. It's John Powell. Oh, okay. I was like, this is actually not that interesting. Yeah, it's not that interesting. It's John Powell. He did the How to Train Your Dragon score

with all the bagpipes and stuff. Oh, I love How to Train Your Dragon. It's a nice score. That's a good score. That's the thing everyone loves in that movie, right? Yes. People love that score? Yeah. Yeah, it's a new track. That's a good score. That's the thing everyone loves in that movie, right? Yes. People love that score? Yeah.

Yeah, you're a total freak. Anyway, Woody Allen's the star of the movie. It's fucking insane. Yep, very bizarre. And also Sylvester Stallone, Jennifer Lopez, Gene Hackman. It has like a completely stack-ass- Christopher Walken, Anne Bancroft, Sharon Stone. Everyone's like playing that.

It's about ants. So weird. And Danny Glover. Danny Glover. And I remember the scene where he has to become like a soldier ant, and they have to go fight the termites, and the termites are like 10 times bigger than them. Yes. And I was like, this is, this is wild.

Like this is kind of grim. Dan Aykroyd and Jane Curtin play wasps. Yeah. But the joke is that they're wasps and also they're wasps. They're like wasps. Yeah, yeah. What are you saying? Which is, is.

It's a pretty good joke. I remember they eventually get like stomped by a sneaker It's really weird The skirt's pretty good Number four Okay Is a big comedy Huge comedy of the year

Action comedy Rush hour? Yeah That's right That's correct Yeah Run on the table Jackie Chan

Chris Tucker Tom Wilkinson Of course I don't remember Who else is in Rush Hour How do you know these so quickly? Sick and disgusting. He's a terrible person.

Go right to jail. He can tell you how he knows. It's actually cute. Well, yeah. My dad loves sports scores. Read them with my brother. I didn't like sports. The equivalent became me and my father reading the box office together every Monday morning before I went to school.

That's so cute. They're very burned in my memory because their emotional connection. And I still it's not mostly what my father and I talk about but we're still constantly talking about the box office. Although David and I do that now as well. We spend an hour on a Saturday night texting about the box office performance of the Playmobil movie.

Oh my, that movie. That movie. Have you seen it? I have not. Have you? No? I have not, have you? No. I kind of want to now, only because it's belly flopped so hard. I don't know why they decided to make it, especially because the second Lego movie didn't do well. Well, the second major Lego Batman. If you think of it as the fourth Lego movie, it makes more sense. Ninjago didn't do well.

Only two of them did well. Should have stopped at Lego Batman. Lego Batman more sense. Ninjago didn't do well. Yeah. Only two of them did well. Should have stopped at Lego Batman. Lego Batman was great. Lego Batman's a masterpiece. Yes. Thank you for your perfect opinions. But no, they announced this movie right after the first Lego movie got made. Oh my God.

And the Playmobil movie has gone through like six directors and 27 writers and four release date shifts. It's so funny because I didn't know what it was and um i i moved in with my boyfriend and he put like these like little figurines on the bookcase they're playmobil and i like i took a picture of them and i was just like kyle has legos and then somebody was just like a bunch of people are gonna get very mad at you that is playmobil i was, I don't know the difference. It's just twice. They're little people.

Little people with faces. Different faces, though. I did not know that they were a thing until somebody on Twitter told me. Mostly a European thing. I never had Playmobil. Oh, see, I had a ton of them, but I attribute that to having a European mother. A French mama. Yeah, Kyle spent a lot of his time in the Netherlands,

which may be exciting. That's where they're from? Here are some of the other movies. It's just a great 90s week. Practical Magic and Bride of Chucky being great. Fury 98. And Ants. All of them.

Rush Hour, everything. What Dreams May Come. Robin Williams Goes to Heaven. Oh, I've seen that one. And it's like a big old gloop. Another big passion project sort of belly flop

although it did better yeah it did okay it's a really kind of a dreary movie yeah it is A Night at the Roxbury yeah

it's a whole movie those guys from the sketch yep a movie I loved I would be scared to rewatch. Who made it?

Well, the credited director is like someone, but the actual, I believe the story now is that Amy Heckerling actually directed it. Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah, and all the stuff going on with that. Urban Legend. Oh, what if there was horror about those stories that you hear? I love bad horror franchises, and I can't deal with Urban Legend at all. It's below even you're saying.

The concept is just ungraspable. It's like it's kind of Urban Legend is kind of like Candyman and then it's like academic, right? It's like she's a student and she's investigating these stories we tell but candy man is like she's investigating a specific folk tale and urban legend is just like like you know like the story of like there's a guy in the back seat like that what if that was a horror guy who kills you the most interesting thing about those movies is that loretta divineine is in more than one of them. Weird. Urban Legends Final Cut. I'm trying to remember the other Urban Legends.

Yeah. She's in the first one and she's in the second one. Fair enough. Yeah. And then Ronin, sort of an underrated, fun, you know, dumb, quite all smart action movie, right? Yeah. And then Holy Man. Holy Man. Penny Murphy as a guru.

I've never watched that all the way through. It's not a great movie. And I also mix it up a lot with the golden child. Sure. That's true. He's made sort of multiple special, like I'm the special one movie. That felt like too, like he was on such an incredible comeback run.

Cause like the first half of the nineties were not good for him. And then it was like Nutty Professor, Dr. Doolittle, Eddie's back. Oh fuck. What's this? And then he makes this movie with like the barcode poster.

Who's into this? Every 10 years, The Love Guru is another one where they're like, let's do a guru movie. No one likes gurus. No. Even if you're making fun of them. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah.

Anyway. We're done. Holy man. We did the box office game. Yeah. We're done talking about Beloved. Yeah. It is.

I think it's. It's. It's. I think it's an interesting movie I think it's an okay movie I think that there are fascinating things about it there are good performances in it but it does not all the way come together

I was sort of firing it up not knowing quite but I was like you know I know there are people who value this movie I've definitely heard people sort of stick up for it and I was like oh yeah maybe this is one of those kind of buried gem type movies. But not quite. No.

No. And you're like, you know, probably the thing now would be for Oprah to get rights to other works from the estate and hand them to people and do them on own as miniseries. I desperately want her to produce movies again, mostly because of the two-headed monster that is Lee Daniels and Tyler Perry driving me insane. We need to throw a woman in there. Because I'm just like, I'm tired.

Also, did you see, I mentioned this, I think before we started recording, that Lee Daniels is doing the Terms of Endearment remake with Oprah, and I'm just like, why Lee Daniels of all people? Can someone please stop him? Are they doing it for TV or theatrical?

No, they're doing it theatrical. And who's playing the daughter? Have they announced it? The only person attached is Oprah. Like, God knows. I did not know this. But he is currently made, he's filming a Billie Holiday movie that I believe is due out this year.

I mean, next year, when? 2020. With who playing Billie Holiday? Someone I believe is due out this year. I mean, next year, when is it? 2020. With who playing Billie Holiday? Someone, Andra Day. Oh, yeah. She's big in theater music circles and stuff like that. So I'm assuming she's being chosen for her talent and her voice. For her singing.

Yeah, she can sing. But Trevante Rhodes is in it. I love him. Divine Joy Randolph is in it. I don't know. Natasha Lyonne is in it. Hey. Yeah, Divine Joy Randolph is in it. I don't know. Natasha Lyonne is in it. Yeah, Natasha Lyonne really getting around these days. So he's back, you know, in terms of making movies.

But yeah, yeah. But he's been producing stuff. It's like him and Tyler Perry are like the big two. Like they throw their weight behind something. It's going to happen. And then Oprah does it every once in a while. But it's almost like she's just like

a little gun shy because of what happened with Beloved I think it might be did she produce Selma was she like an executive producer on that she was

she was and like in Selma like that's the kind of stuff that I want from her Selma is great she's great in Selma and that's it's her finding a very

like an interview director who's never made a movie of that scale but is obviously talented getting them into the studio system. You want her to sort of extend her power in that kind of way. Right, because I think, like, in terms of

like, OWN, OWN has been really great in terms of getting a lot of, like, female filmmakers into direct episodes of Greenleaf and Queen Sugar, and it's just like, okay, like, put them on the big screen. You sort of have a farm team now who you should be able to... I forgot the other movie she recently produced was The 100-Foot Journey.

Yes, I did. I did see that, and I was confused by that. Was that a book club? It was a book. So I assume she optioned it. Yeah, wow. She loves those books. The only movies Harpo Films has produced,

Beloved, Great Debaters, Precious, 100-Foot Journey, Selma. And Precious was her and Lee Daniels coming on as producers after the movie was bought at Sundance. I believe that's right. That was the weird thing was it was like— That's when it was Push. Right. It was like the movie— Never forget that that movie had to change its title because of the superhero movie Push.

Starring Chris Evans. Everyone's favorite, third favorite Chris Evans superhero franchise. But yeah, I came on, like, when I decided to come on to talk about this movie, I came on ready, guns blazing, beloved,

best movie ever, underrated. I wanted to discover it. And then like, and then like I, and then I rewatched it and I was just like, not quite,

but I'm glad that we're talking about it. glad we're talking about it and not, if you want to revisit it, there's things to find in it. There are. Yeah. And thank you so much for coming on this episode, Jordaine.

Oh, yeah. People should listen to Bad Romance Pod. You and Bronwyn Ariel Isaac, who's a great comedian. Yeah, and we, I'm trying to think, by the time this episode comes out, we'll have already done our live show because it's in January, but we're doing a live show where we're doing Love Actually. We're doing Love Actually. At Union Hall. So after, so I mean, I hope

that you went, maybe? A film that I presume if you're covering it on the podcast, you have similar opinions to David and I. Yes. It's a toxic waste dump. Yes, we're, yeah, we feel the same way about it. It's a psychological hellscape.

Yes, yes, very much so. I despise that movie. But fun to bounce ideas off of that one. Anyway, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. People should follow you on Twitter. Yeah, what's your handle?

It's at J-O-U-R-D-A-Y-E-N. There you go. Because the proper spelling of my name has been taken since 2009. No! But you know maybe, aren't they going to free up some of those dead accounts? I am waiting to get my name. I saw that. I want to petition someone and be like, hey, who do

I talk to to get David Sims? Because you're David L. Sims. Yes, I am. I've gotten used to it. It's my middle name. Follow me on Twitter. There's a picture of me when I'm three years old. Yes, picture of me when I'm three years old yes I got glasses when I was three years old you can see that

it's very cute and you're writing all over the place yeah yeah I'm writing I'm doing Steven Universe recaps at AV Club right now

nice writing about by the time this will be out my Queen in Slim piece will be out and I'm working on some other things and the piece that I kept

referencing about this decade in black film will be out by then. Definitely check that out. Very exciting. It's a new decade now. Right now? I mean, when this comes out. Oh, by the time this, that's, we'll be in the. A new decade.

2020. Everything will be so clear to us. It's going to be great. Yeah. Things will go great. Yeah. I think it's going to be instantaneous. I think the ball will drop and everyone will go,

Oh, what's all this money in my bank account? This is how we should behave. It all makes sense. Alright, wrap it up. Okay, thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Thanks to Andrew Gooda for our social media, Lane Montgomery for our theme song,

Joe Bone and Pat Reynolds for our artwork. Go to blankies.reddit.com for some real nerdy shit. Next week, talking truth about Charlie with David Lowery. Hey, you fooled everyone. I tricked you.

He's back on the show talking about that incredibly, incredibly strange movie. Very strange film. Keep trucking with Demi. Keep trucking with Demi. You're going to keep trucking with Demi. Are we on to Toy Story commentaries by this point?

Or are we still in Star Wars? No, we're still in Star Wars. Check out the Patreon. We're talking wars, baby. Yeah. We're back in the wars. Maybe we're going to Disney World soon. I hope so.

Yeah. God, we have to talk about this. Great. All right. End the episode. Okay. All right. End the episode. Okay. All right. Bye.

Bye. Thank you all for listening. Thank you all for listening. And as always, we got to talk about Disney World plans now. Okay, bye. The best thing about that movie is that the girl who sings All I Want for Christmas is You goes on to voice Marceline on Adventure Time. Really?

That was my introduction to her. Marceline, the vampire queen? Yeah. Wow. I met her at Dragon Con, and I fangirled at her. See, I'm a Princess Bubblegum guy myself. Bossy round face.

Bossy round face. Yeah. Good ruler. Good ruler. I don't know about that, you guys. Tries to be. Okay. All of her citizens are candy. She learns. Good ruler. I don't know about that. Tries to be. All of her citizens are candy.

She learns. At one point she turns back into a baby. She's got to get done with that. Just to regrow herself. I'll come back to talk about Adventure Time. Let's do it.