Blank Check with Griffin & David - Beyond the Lights with Ayo Edebiri

Episode Date: August 23, 2020

The pressures of fame as a young pop star navigating the music industry. An overbearing, success driven mother. A quote loving cop with a big heart. Beyond the Lights is an epic film packed with drama, comedy, music and romance. This week, comedian Ayo Edebiri (Iconography podcast) returns to discuss Gugu Mbatha-Raw’s career trajectory, viral realism, wearing the Larry Crowne and Ayo's work as the unofficial showrunner for The Kominsky Method.

That fancy girl you see on the posters? She did go over the balcony. And the real podcast got pulled back up. I realize I should have done a British accent. I fucked that up. I didn't do a British accent. You could try again if you want. You know, I don't know.

I don't know if I should. I don't know if it'd get any better. You don't think you could summon Brixton on this podcast today? Spirit of Brixton? Ready? Let me try it. Let me try it. You reckon that fancy girl

you see on the posters? Oh, should they go over the balcony? Ain't it? And the real nonny Jean? Go pull back up. Ayo, can you do a british and english accent no such thing as a british accent um okay wait i'm just wondering that accent you saw go over the balcony that one that was the fake one and the real one got pulled up just right now it's a little i don't really know exactly where it is i don't know where i'm from but fuck you know you sound like a south londoner you sound all right you sound i think try to channel a few cousins i've met twice in my life you feel me

you got some british cousins i've got some british cousins south london like cousins who grew up in the united kingdom that's wild they grew up in the uk and i've also got cousins who grew up in the united kingdom that's wild they grew up in the uk and i've also got cousins who grew up in ireland and you're gonna call me a liar but it's true yeah i've got german cousins as well i'm i'm doing no such thing i believe you i take your word okay well how about this i've got cousins who were born and raised in italy now they live in the u.s that's cool as well you shut the fuck up you shut the fuck up I don't believe that for a second I want you to

no I don't believe that for a second you push this bit too hard wow okay I question your integrity yeah no I believe

that's fine that's good that's good thank you do you know where in South London they're from your cousins

um someplace near Brixton I remember they said and I was like and I was like oh is that and she's like it's like 15 minutes outside Brixton. I remember they said, and I was like, and I was like, oh, is that? And she's like,

it's like 15 minutes outside Brixton. And I went, okay, sure. Cool. We met at a Nando's. We met at a Nando's. True story.

Whoa. Cheeky. Sorry. Cheeky. My favorite, my favorite chain restaurant. So good. Yes.

It's the best chain restaurant, uh, that exists. Yes yes across the globe yep yep david has been able to do nando's on doughboys for a long time i mean by angling you mean like quietly and not telling anyone like just quietly thinking that i would love to do that well now this is the angle the angle begins now right because my campaign was to get on doughboys to do costco it took four years i finally did it so now we have to launch your campaign david uh yeah great david for nando's let's just uh you know let's knock out that

coronavirus let's uh you know set up a trip to dc or something i believe there's nando's in washington dc yeah that's true yep so you know let's do it let's go david do you want to take a trip okay actually well neither of us are in the same place but let's take a trip i'll meet you in dc olivia can show us around yeah all right yeah olivia's from dc yeah of course even when she's not here she's here olivia she's so inside the beltway well let's say this that's true look there are two things we like to do on this show inside the beltway okay never mind sorry there was a lag whoops no i want to hear i was gonna say she's inside the beltway and beyond the lights oh all right all right see worth it worth it to go back because

now it's a smooth transition ladies and gentlemen non-binary people this is a podcast called blank check and it's about filmographies directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want and sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they go beyond the lights. We are talking about the films of Gina Prince Bythewood. We've gotten

to what I contend is her masterpiece although she arguably has a couple within a very short filmography. It is called Beyond the Lights as we've now said three times in the last minute this is pod mascot cast and our special guest today what i was going to say is we love doing crossover reps with other podcasts and we love individually collecting the hosts of other podcasts we kind of did it backwards of how we'll often do it sometimes.

So you might have heard our guest on this show previously on our Rachel Getting Married episode, but now she's riding solo, baby. I'm riding solo. I'm at the BET Awards in my purple wig. Riding solo. You don't need Machine Gunlly anymore i i don't know

i miss her oh i miss her that's sweet olivia will be back i know just uh olivia olivia on the books for a future episode she's in the spreadsheet she's our guest today she's a hot commodity that olivia of course yes yes we couldn't book her for like six more months Yeah no she wouldn't give me the time of day Well she's filming a Marvel movie I mean Oh We can't talk about it

Untitled Atlanta event project But our guest Our guest today is one half of the iconography podcast and also of course the showrunner of the kominsky method ladies and gentlemen i owe it a berry thank you so much for coming back on the show so you were just uh you were just sitting there one day and just like yeah what if there was a kominsky method is that is that how it all started you were just sort of looking out the window yeah Yeah, well, okay. I'm going to say one thing that is so...

It's Adebri. Fuck. It's okay. It's okay. Listen, it's the same thing, right? It's like if you are going to learn how to pronounce Kaminsky, you're going to learn how to pronounce Adebri. Sort of that.

And let me say, I got Kaminsky wrong several times. It took a long time for me to learn that one. We practiced it before the pod. So I'm glad you got one out of two. Io Adebri, showrunner of the Kaminsky method. Fuck, see, I went back. I went back. Well, it was a project that definitely I would say

is one of my bigger passion projects. And the work that I've always sought to do in this industry, which is making space for those who do not have space being made for them right and yes yes you know i've worked the kumitskis of the world thank you and i've worked a long time and was sort of inspired by my own experiences as a famous actor as a famous director as a famous showrunner taking all of these experiences that i'm collecting onto my friends and i'm saying who looks like us who sounds like us who talks like us

who's in the world what's funny because that's the other thing about comedy today right you're getting all these this these rabble rousers involved and I'm going

yes yeah but I'm not laughing I go to a diner I go to a diner with my good buddies Alan Arkin and Michael Douglas

right I believe yep it's you nailed it you nailed the stars of your show yes that's right two out of two good good and we're all um ordering eggs eggs eggs eggs laughing so many eggs we're ordering right like the waitress comes and she's like and for you x and for you x and for you x like just around. We're getting hard-boiled, soft-boiled, scrambled, fried, over easy, sunny. So everybody's getting different types of eggs. And I'm going, wait a minute.

I'm laughing. I have to write this. I have a duty to write this. Did you have one of those moments where you almost sat back and you went like, this could be a show. Like just this, what we're saying right now. Like the way we're talking yeah this could be the show i'm gonna be honest with you i thought it was a movie at first then i wrote the movie and i said wait a minute i'm writing about 10 12 movies a season that's a tv show so i condensed a 10 hour movie

yes you condensed and expanded at the same time and for the better i'd say yeah absolutely we're all the richer for it just full disclosure as ceo of quibi i did try and poach the kaminsky method but i i'll turn me down i will say you offered more money i i offered a lot i offered what I consider crazy money. Yeah, definitely not a quibby of money. You know, that was a long shoe. Yeah, that check was a large bite. Okay. And more on that.

But it's about integrity for me. I'd say it's about artistic integrity. And the place that had the most artistic integrity for sure was absolutely Netflix HQ. and the place that had the most artistic integrity for sure was absolutely netflix hq was the place where me and my uh my community i'd say could make the show that spoke to us and for us and you know obviously now with uh covid 19 everything is really crazy but we are a very tight-knit cast and crew and we were able to quarantine in the nursing home where all of the writers and producers already live you made a bubble i see i see what you did we made a bubble and we finished thank you and we and we and we um well we comminskied uh let's just say

and finish the third season really really no other word for it what you guys are doing and and honestly thank you for your service and for pushing through and getting that third season really really no other word for it what you guys are doing and and honestly thank you for your service and for pushing through and getting that third season finished and worth it i'd say the result i mean it shows itself it's the perfect show that many people watch and i know many people have opinions on as well and um and and all different types of people as well um well okay so that's that's the end of our traditional opening segment on the podcast the kaminsky breakdown thank you uh so now and for once relevant usually we're just pushing that that subject on our guests glad i could be here honestly yeah um really good timing let's sort of

like let's try and transition into discussion of this filmmaker and the film she made. So, Ayo, what's your relationship to Gina Prince-Bythewood's films in general, and this one in particular? Well, first of all, I love her. I owe her my life. Just like one of the... I don't know, she's just somebody who I always knew I looked up to, if that

makes sense. And I feel like she's been in my world for so long and just was always a name that i knew and a face that i knew and more and more but especially in this moment where i feel like a lot of people are like learning things and like learning actors and i'm like i've known this and directors as well. Like I've known this person my whole life, even when I didn't realize it. But Love and Basketball is obviously like iconic imprinted on my psyche in the foreground and the background. Saturday when my mother was doing my hair and I had to be like in front of the like TV or the weird kitchen DVD player that we had that was really high up so we couldn't change any of the movies so we would sometimes watch the same movie for many months so so bees was in the rotation on the

kitchen DVD uh-huh bees was one of them kitchen DVD movie I could see that you had a bee season you had a bee season and that's. And that's the word on that. Bees, Hilary Duff's Cinderella Story, Brandy's Cinderella. Of course. Oh, there's another one

that I just, oh, Diary of a Mad Black Woman, Tyler Perry, obviously. The original. Yes. Oh, yeah, of course. We were watching the plays

in our house. Sure. But when Beyond the Lights came out, I remember watching it the year it came out and being so into it and so obsessed with Gugu Mbatha-Raw. Mm-hmm. And being like, okay okay I'm ready for everybody to know she's a superstar and then I was like wait a minute why isn't everybody not obsessed

with the only perfect woman who's ever been born agree it's we're now what six years on from Beyond the Lights fall 2014 and like she's still not a superstar obviously she works she's like in stuff all the time she's what she's in the morning show now right i mean which is like to me

wrong incorrect because it's a competitor to kaminsky i get that yeah thank you and it shouldn't exist um only on tv no but right you're right Like she's like the sixth lead on the morning show. Right. Yeah. She needs to be the lead in her own show. She's so fantastic. Have you guys seen Fast Color? Yes, I saw Fast Color. Yeah, Fast Color was great. So like what's going on? Yeah, I guess that's the only

other starring role she's really, I guess. Bell was the same year as this. Bell was earlier this year. Bell was the year before. Really? Well, I think as this bell was earlier this year bell was the year before really or well i think you know what it was at festivals the year before it might i think it came out 2014 i think you're right and then since then i mean i think um what's it called um the cloverfield paradox i know everyone's agreed to forget that happened but she was sort of a co-lead of that right like she was kind of that's sort of the fundamental paradox of that movie it exists

and it doesn't at all at the same time like if i told you there was a sci-fi space station movie with the goo-goo about the raw david yellow oh you daniel brule elizabeth debicki like that sounds great it's so fucked that it's not good fundamentally it's the widows of cloverfield movies well wait is that an insult to widows because i i can't i can't handle that that's gonna mess me up okay come on let's just get into it whatever this is let's just deal with it right now i loved widows i saw widows three times in theaters i loved widows i tried to fight for widows and nobody believed me the i saw it at a weird premiere. I saw it with friends, and I saw it with my dad,

and nobody believed me. And that was what was so hard about Widows. I just feel like Widows deserved more. Widows isn't flawless, you know what I mean? But neither is love. You feel me? Do you know who's stand for Widows? David Lawrence Sims, number one film of that year on this podcast well that's why

you're a king David that's why you're a king that's king shit right that was that was a king move of mine

and you are you're one of my biggest reply guys on Twitter we have a great back and forth thank you in the marketplace

of ideas no Widows is the best but I know what you mean it was a similar thing where it was like when I saw Widows at Toronto I was I walked out of there and It was a similar thing where it was like, when I saw Widows at Toronto, I walked out of there and I was like,

this thing, holy shit. Like, you know, people are going to go, this is the kind of like, it's going to get the raves. It's going to get the box office. And then it like did okay. That was the thing. It felt like a rare movie that was going to be able

to play both lanes equally well. Like it was going to make a hundred million dollars and it was going to get nominated in most major categories but like there's a beyond the lights i mean you know that's sort of the story with that movie too right i mean i don't think i thought it was gonna make a hundred million dollars but it was one of those like why aren't people talking about this more it's right here for everybody well okay sorry to go back to widows but i think it maybe it was a situation well one okay let's talk about the way that we don't give money to um you know black people um or promoting their uh movies that are good uh get into that um but i think another thing

honestly was like promotion yeah it was it was they didn't know how to sell it it was really badly marketed and like the original poster is like this beautiful sort of like artsy like oh this is what it is we're doing like in between cursive and like classic typeface like title all lowercase it's black and white them on the beach mm-hmm and it's like this is nice this is what the movie is and then most of the theatrical posters are like really cheesy homework movie-esque like bad the dvd cover is like her abysmal it's purple hair abolish that smiling with the sunglasses the sunglasses are purple like it's so bad yeah it's so bad it's like every single piece of key art they did for

this movie is bad in a different way it's so crazy i was a big love and basketball fan i had skipped a secret life of bees in theaters this had been like you know there's a large gap between love and basketball and secret life of bees a slightly shorter gap here but she hadn't made a movie in a number of years and then this marketing was so bad i remember never seeing a trailer never seeing a tv ad only seeing a lot of bus ads yep and like posters and the posters were so bad i was like is this some like Nicholas Sparks-esque thing? Like it looks so generically melodramatic romance movie rather than give me any sense of what it was. And then I remember it was our friend of the show, Marie Barty, who credit where credit is due, also is the one who introduced Alex Ross Perry to the podcast.

This was a litigation over twitter recently but uh she was the one who like i remember one week showed up at the trivia night are we celebrating that sorry let me stop it celebrate good times celebrate good times um but uh david and i uh io for context, became friends because we both started obsessively going to a movie trivia night when we were very depressed. And that was the formation of our friendship. Love that. And Marie came in one week and was like, have you guys seen Beyond the Lights? And we were like, no.

And she's like, it's one of the best movies of the year. It's insane. And I was like, I haven't heard anyone really talking about it at all. I assumed it was just sort of like a nothing. So then we went to see it like several days later david and i cited as like one of our important early friend dates before we started doing the podcast and we're like this is like a pivotal movie for us where we sat there watching it together having that excitement when you're seeing a film that you've

known almost nothing about like we really just knew people on the posters, both of whom aren't very well established at this point in time, and the director, who we liked, but we didn't know what this movie was going to be. And that sense of excitement scene by scene where you're like, this is great, this is great, it's getting better, it's getting better, it's getting better, she's sticking the landing.

It's one of those movies where all the scenes are good. And, like, I know that sounds insanely trite, but, like, that's actually kind of hard an early friend date that i had with um another friend we saw um maurice uh together it was like when it was a um oh no what's the word restored okay yeah it was right it had been re-released or whatever um and james ivory was at the screening and i went with a friend and there was a Q&A and we were like, holy shit, we're going to be at a Q&A with James Ivory. Everybody's going to ask incredible questions, forgetting that it's a Q&A and nobody asks good questions at a Q&A. That's the whole point of a Q&A.

That's never happened. Not once. happen but this woman raised her hand and went what made you decide to have it go from scene to scene to scene wow actually a great question why not just not do that okay um but but beyond the lights is a movie where it goes yeah this goes scene to scene to scene to scene it really does go scene to scene to scene to scene it works it works very hard and very well it's also uh another thing that's gonna sound trite uh every scene works incredibly well as its own self-contained thing and then the way those scenes build upon each other is masterful it works both. You could break this movie into quibbies and every quibby would be good. Oh, yeah, I see.

But also, the whole is greater than the quibbies. Mm-hmm. Yes. I will also say, Yeah. There's montages.

There's not a lot, but there's montages. And they're not annoying. This movie gives good montage, which is a rare compliment. But there's a reason why they're there. Yeah. And they're good annoying. This movie gives good montage, which is a rare compliment. But there's a reason why they're there. Yeah.

And they're good. They hit. Okay, we're having an epic discussion about movies. You know, we have a saying in our family. Use sports. Don't let sports use you. Hi, it's Jeff Merrick from 32 Thoughts to Podcast. Are you a sports parent, rep sports, travel sports, whatever you

call it? If you're like me, you know that one of the great joys of having your kid or kids play sports is travel. You know, our families use sports to see different parts of the world, meet new people, and stay in a number of different places. Recently, we've started using Airbnb. The kids love it because it feels like a sleepover at a new friend's house, while my wife and I enjoy more space, a proper bed, and mostly a washing machine. That really comes in handy for baseball trips. Trust me. In fact, it was on a baseball trip last summer when my wife sent me a text after the first night saying,

do you think we could do this? Look, if you've ever stayed at an Airbnb, you've probably wondered the same thing. Could our place be an Airbnb? And now that our kids have also discovered the joys of skiing, in addition to travel hockey and travel baseball, we're on the move even more. Well, our house just sits there. Why not make a little extra money to cover some costs right we have friends who travel south every winter and they airbnb their place why not look if you want to make a little extra cash and who doesn't need that these days maybe your home could be the way to make it happen find out how at airbnb.com um yeah i think we saw it at the amc village 7 griffin

near empty theater yes we got a drink with uh my girlfriend afterwards and just like yelled at her about the movie yeah she was like get a room with that movie you just saw yeah exactly griffin was like i tried but i really hold his eyes yeah sighed loudly but like i guess i had maybe seen but i'm trying to think of like how much i knew the people in the obviously i i had seen love and basketball but like i guess i'd seen gugu in like some doctor who episodes i think i'd seen bell had you seen larry crown had you worn the crown yet? You know, I've never worn the crown. I never took a ride on that scooter with Tom and Julia. You ever seen Larry Crown, Io?

I have horrible news to report. I've never seen Larry Crown. That's just too damn bad. What are you going to do? Do you want to stop the record so you can watch it and then we can resume later just with the knowledge of larry crown in the background it couldn't hurt a little background crown doesn't she play like kind of like a cool person in larry crown she's like a young cool person and like the kids are all right like that

type of thing so i think so she I think so. She is cool. And also she's black, but these things have nothing to do with each other. And that's what we believe in this movie. Like that. I think that's the case, but I regrettably inform you that I have also never worn the crown.

Wow. Because I believe the pitch of Larry Crown is that he goes to college. He's an older man right yes and julia roberts is his post-divorce teacher who's given up it's like his whole life collapses he loses his corporate job and i think his wife leaves him and he's like ah well i gotta start over and uh at gugum about the raw and so he falls in love with- Talia, his economics classmate- Okay. Who invites him to join a club of scooter riders-

Oh, wow. Led by her boyfriend, Del Gordo- Played by- Who's played by Wilmer Valderrama. Wilmer Valderrama. So there you go. Wait a minute. So you're telling me Tom Hanks' Larry Crown falls in love-

And eventually gets entangled with his teacher played by Julia Roberts sounds like a Larry Crown affair yeah I'm sick of myself my body's a prison I'm dying to get out I will say the cast of Larry Crown is just all stars you got Pam Greer

Central Entertainer Brian Cranston crown is just all stars he got pam greer entertainer can i read the plan order no i'm doing it well but i want to read it on the poster david already pretty much did it it's just the order on the poster is insane okay what's the order on the poster griffin hanks roberts larry crown cranston ranston entertainer p henson mabatha raw valderrama greer no and but here's who it's not mentioning rami malik rita wilson george takei you got rob wiggle wriggle not rob wiggle you have chet hanks as pizza delivery boy okay slay chet you Chet Hanks involved. Nia Vardalos, who co-wrote the movie as a map genie, the voice of a map genie.

Randall Park is in it. Randall Park. Randall Park. When's he bad? He's always a boy. He's always good. So maybe we should be doing Larry Crown, but no,

we decided to pick a slightly later project for Gugu, which is Beyond the Lights. Might never watch Larry Crown, which is so hard to know. It feels like you could be watching it right now and not be aware of it. It feels like one of those things. So true. It feels like a movie when you're in a hotel in Tallahassee and you're trying to go to bed, but you can't exactly go to bed.

So you turn on the TV and you flip the channel exactly three times. then on the third channel you decide to close your eyes and you see keep watching it in between commercials for like tgi fridays and detergent feels like i think you nailed it i i think i only can see myself watching larry crown in a hotel room i don't even think i would choose it on an airplane but in a hotel room if it was't even think I would choose it on an airplane, but in a hotel room, if it was on, I would sit down and watch all of it. Those are different movies. Hotel movie and airplane movie is different movie.

Yeah, 100%. Oh yeah. Airplane movie, I need to be engaged. I need to have something to pay attention to. Hotel movie, right. Yeah, I don't need anything from that. You're trying to sleep in a hotel, right? I like larry crown isn't a movie i've actively avoided i always assumed i would get around to it one day but five months into lockdown i think it's become clear i'm never gonna see

larry crown if it was gonna happen it would have happened by now here's the series i'm gonna pitch for y'all to do in about 20 years. Tom Hanks director. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of good stuff there. You got that thing you do.

You got Larry crown, which I'm not sure if we've mentioned on this podcast yet. I don't think so. I don't think it's coming. Looking for a mechanic opening. You know, you got that episode of, you know, some episodes of like band of brothers,

right? Earth to the moon. Earth to the moon. Pretty good show. Yeah. So, you know some episodes of like band of brothers right earth to the moon earth to the moon pretty good show yeah um so you know i mean if you include tv and screenwriting then gray gets in there let's let's toss greyhound in there have you watched greyhound griffin i've not taken the greyhound bus greyhound's A-OK. He did the League of League of

League of League of their own TV show. OK. He did? Yeah. Like he directed it? He directed.

That's cool. Like the 90s pilot? Yeah. That makes sense. He produced the movie or was in it or whatever. He did an episode called

monkey's curse wow wasn't that fun i mean oh he's also got that apple movie yeah greyhound that's greyhound that's greyhound's all right but didn't direct yeah greyhound is 80 minutes long oh well that's a movie yes it's like you you queue it up and it says it's 90 minutes long you're like oh 90 minutes long it's pretty short 10 minutes of credits it's it's eight zero you you're basically out of there at 75 i saw people complaining online about the recent reveal that the new bill and ted movie is 78 minutes long and being like and you expect me to pay for that on vod i would pay double for that like that sounds ideal i would pay twice as much as i did for king of staten island to be able to watch half of that runtime they should break tenant into two pieces then it would make both both pieces more uh alluring let's stop talking around it tenant should be released on

quibi tenant should be i'm trying chris won't return my calls because he doesn't have a cell phone i know i think it's just so crazy how annoying he's being about it like i feel like everybody would be like on his side if he just was like like quiet about it and he keeps and also i saw this thing that it was like well it's screened privately and it's like yeah of course it does that's what most movies do like oh just shut up you know what's wild about it too i have the exact same takeaway and then i step back and think about the fact that he has barely spoken publicly about it. And yet his sentiments keep on coming through in every news update. Like, it's incredible to do that few interviews and still come off as annoying. That takes skill.

If he just said, like, if this was his statement, if he said, I believe in preserving the theatrical experience. I refuse to put this movie on VOD. I will be saving this film until it is safe for theaters to reopen. Everyone would cheer him. Yeah. If he just said, it's undated. I will give it a date when it's ready or I'm pushing it back a year or whatever it is. But this game.

Yeah, no, the game is bad. This little game. He's kind of like being a fuck boy about it it's annoying absolutely i will say last piece i've treated the sentiment before but i just want to have it on vocal record kenneth larkin waited six years for margaret to come out no one can wait yeah margaret only got better with time. Yeah. We need the Margaret re-release. I got to make my man some money.

Margaret, Margaret, I don't think that's a good COVID re-release. That's sitting for a while. No, no, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, no, a while, a while, a while. It's not an immediate re-release. I'm working on it. What if,

what if that was the announcement? Like AMC is reopening mid-August with a lot of hollywood classics greatest showman ghostbusters margaret back on the big screen if i worked hard enough people would come out that's all i'll say which cut which cut i want directors have you you've seen both i assume i am He did, he did a screening at, uh, uh, the quad of the director's cut and was good to a Q and a afterwards. And I was like,

Oh my God, director's cut is only on like standard definition DVD. This is like a rare chance to see it on a proper film print. And then it started up and they were screening the DVD. And afterwards someone asked, they were like, is there a reason why we just watched a standard deaf version of the director's cut?

And he was like, that's literally all that exists. It was after the movie was released in the cut, I didn't approve. I, with my own money, went back and tried to re-edit it with DV tapes I had. I don't have access to the original elements. I'm still begging someone to let me re-edit it properly holy shit there's fundamentally no higher quality version of that director's cut

the whole margaret thing is basically worth us doing a kenneth lonigan miniseries i know we only directed three movies so far but just three bangers sorry three absolute bangers yeah three bangers absolutely i mean co-wrote gangs of new york i know great movie i feel like you could if you wanted to bend the rules a little david's face saying no we'll do marty no scorsese doesn't really fit into our template he doesn't really fit into the types of directors we cover oh yeah that guy that guy's never been able to like do something absolutely wild that a studio was like you know looking at in horror while it was happening i would insist that we include the adventures of rocky and bullwinkle because we're

never going to do a des mcann off miniseries and Lonergan does have sole screenwriting credit on that one. He does. He does. He's the only credited screenwriter of The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle. There's that scene where Bullwinkle runs over Allison Janney with a car and then he holds her in her arms as he thinks that

Bullwinkle is her daughter. We gotta get to Beyond the Lights. Yes. No, go ahead, Io. And then I'm going to Beyond the Lights. About that movie. Okay. Yes. No, go ahead, Io. And then I'm going to read the billing order of that movie. And then we're going to talk about Beyond the Lights. Okay. Well, fun fact about Rocky and Bullwinkle is I saw it once,

but never finished it because the CGI freaked me out so much when I was a kid that I threw up. Wow. So it was like sensory overload. Yeah, it sounded so disgusting. I found it really disgusting and i threw up uh here is the above the title billing order griffin do you remember the billing order on margaret no for the adventures of rocky and bullwinkle oh deniro russo alexander and then And then Moose Squirrel? Correct. Iconic. Yep.

Perfect. This summer, it's not the same old bull. That was the tagline. I was going to say, beyond the lights, I'm looking at Gugu's IMDb here, which launched our... Now I'm sad again. I'm sorry. It's okay.

The only thing I think I'd seen her in up until this point was Doctor Who where she did a handful of episodes as the companion's sister

that's right but this is sort of her break out year she was mostly doing TV before then with rare exceptions

and then it's like Bell and Beyond the Lights she played Ophelia to Jude Law's Hamlet but then talking about why she didn't immediately become a movie star what well i i'm forgetting there was undercovers oh right do you remember undercovers i am oh yeah sex spionage undercovers was it was boris kujo and gugu right yep yep jj

abrams produced sexy spies show and it was like the most hype tv show of the fall the most expensive show the most promo ever was like this is gonna be the biggest he created it and it was like his first new show post lost post movie career and he was like i'm telling you these are the next two stars this This is going to fucking blow up. And it got canceled like half a season. Yes. But I was going to Regal Cinemas a lot in 2010. And it was like all over Regal first look for a solid month. And there's a scene where Gugu is like, we're going to have to do some sex spionage.

And Ben Schwartz, who played like the computer guy, it's like, did she just say sex spionage? And I just, that's, I will never forget that line reading. It is in my memory forever. I'll say this.

That is why Ben Schwartz is BVA is because of undercover. That's how he met JJ Abrams. Oh my God. It is. Yes. It's a hundred percent why that was like his first big like tv job and he clearly just hung on to jj uh smartly um anyway so she's been in that so there was some acknowledgement what i was gonna say this is a hot young talent okay what

were you because i have this conversation with you all the time moving backwards 20 minutes in conversation i always ask you why hasn't Gugu become like a superstar yet? It felt like she was in that conversation of like, here we go, next wave. And if you look at the things she's done after this, it's like Jupiter Ascending comes out the following year, but obviously been shot a lot earlier and pushed back. She plays a faun.

It's my background image right now on Zoom. It's a small world. She crushes it. Then it's like second lead in Concussion. That in theory was a big part. That movie doesn't go anywhere. Right? What do you mean that movie does not do well?

I'm Nigerian. I'm allowed to make fun of that accent. Yeah. Please. You could make fun of that for 20 minutes. I would just be having a great time. You're allowed to make fun of that accent. I don't think we're allowed to say

anything in response to it you can't say anything about it the only only only cultural footprint of that movie is tell the truth just those three words that's it and then jada kinkett smith was like he should have won an oscar you're racist and i was like girl that's i mean picture battles will's given some very good performances. We don't have to act like that's the one. We don't have to say, right, that's the one that was slept

on. No, dude's in good standing. I do remember seeing like a preview for it when I was with my dad, also iconic Nigerian man, and we laughed, laughed, laughed, but both of us were like, oh, we like her yeah so good but then you look at like

other sort of failed Oscar-y things she's in Free State of Jones right she's in Miss Sloan like this is a lot of like big Oscar-y people she's playing like second or third lead the movie doesn't go anywhere we of course forget that she played plumette

the feather duster i didn't forget feather duster and beating the beast i never forget cloverfield paradox she's the mom in wrinkle in time and then as you said io fast color is like her only other real proper sort of uh leading role she's excellent in that movie it's like a small movie but it's very like focused it's a you know like her and lorraine tucson are both like fantastic phenomenal you know it's it's yeah it's not boring yeah like you know it's like a good small scale sort of superhero movie that's actually about you know mothers and daughters and like all kinds of stuff but the movie barely gets seen and now it like was it barely got released and then like the weekend it was released was announced that it was going to get turned into a tv show with someone else

i don't know if that's still happening but it was very much treated as if like oh this is a good piece of ip to now inspire a streaming show yeah yeah yeah and uh and then the only other thing really of note is motherless brooklyn and we don't have to talk about that i mean she's in it that's about all i got she shows up and does the work every time but you look at her career since beyond the lights and there's a lot of like on paper good prestige projects that just do not pan out and then the other thing whenever i bring up to you david like why hasn't she popped you're like it's the stupid reason which is she hasn't been into marvel and she hasn't been in a star wars right it's like the only fucking thing that moves the needle these days and she constantly will get batted around for these things i believe she was

at one point very rumored to play one of the two female leads in last jedi i think it's the role that maybe ended up being uh laura dern was supposed to be younger originally okay sure and then was talked about for the amelia clark role in solo where every other person who screen tested was a woman of color and then they cast Emilia Clarke. They cast another British brunette lady. I support that. Great decision. She was right for the role. For the role of a woman of color

who would ultimately be played by a white woman. Kira. Kira. What's her name? She's apparently in Loki. She's going to be in Loki. That's what I was going to say. So she's in the Loki show that started filming before this, and who knows when it ever resumes. But it feels like as much as she tried to,

not that she tried to bypass it, she did test for all these things. Yeah. She's going to be in that movie that I don't even know when it's going to come out. Maybe it did already come out. Oh, I think it came out right before COVID or something. Misbehavior with a U with kira knightley but i don't know if she's the actually the lead in it or if kira knightley's the lead or if kira knightley just have first billing because it's supposed to be

about the black the first black first miss world winner of first black miss world yes so you would go oh this is a movie about black people and yeah every single other person in the movie is white but whatever um kira knight gugu mabathara jesse buckley my girl leslie manville resa fenz greg kaneer with a false kaneer kaneer playing bob hope really yeah huh um that sounds good it does look like it came out in the uk right before covid yeah the other one she has that movie summerland which emma ordered in which just came out on vod yeah i have heard pretty mixed buzz on that one i mean yeah you know whatever it's the thing it's you know i understand the project she picks or whatever gets so you you know but she has not had that big breakout

since go ahead I think it's like okay here's the me my tea yes she hasn't had Marvel or Star Wars but also she's in the hard part of being like beautiful young black light skinned woman which is like a very particular

pocket of black actresses. And I think a lot of like, like, yes, there's like the success of that. If you're willing to be like very hot, sexy,

or if like, if you're a black woman and then it's like, Oh, we don't actually find you like sexually attractive or viable. You're like Viola Davis, Octavia Spencer to us. Like we're always going to see you as like hardworking, tough,

sort of intense. And we're going to like to your face hard-working tough sort of intense and we're gonna like to your face tell you like oh no we totally respect you and like find you beautiful we're saying beautiful we keep saying beautiful hmm sort of thing and I think she's just like in a really and sort of a tricky spot but people know that she's talented because even like San Junipero it was like okay so that so finally that's the one thing we forgot to mention san junipero which she's great in that's i mean her two biggest things even if like uh morning show doesn't necessarily do her totally right morning show and san junipero are inarguably the two biggest things she's done since this movie they're the two that have had any sort of impact yeah at large yeah probably yeah and now she's done since this movie. They're the two that have had any sort of impact at large. Yeah, probably, yeah.

And now she's doing another streaming show that's a Marvel and hopefully that's the thing that finally makes people recognize her. But I do think you're right. I feel like you look at those career choices and they feel like someone trying to circumvent the traps that you're describing. And perhaps she has not found

a way to circumvent those and also be in a good project with a good role but she's trying she's trying anyway let's talk about the actual movie the movie we're here to talk about starring gugum about the raw also starring mini starring Minnie Driver starring Nate Parker Danny Glover Machine Gun Kelly of course of course starring as kid culprit but essentially his show

we love him oh isn't he billed as Colson Colson in a quote MGK so fucked I will say though as the transition from general goo goo talk into this movie talk uh this film was set up at sony sony bought the script they were committed to making it at a reasonable budget for an adult drama as much of a budget

as that kind of movie gets these days she starts auditioning she She sees Gugu. She says, this is my actress. Sony says, we will not make that movie with someone this unknown. Who did they want? I don't know who they wanted. I never saw that. I will say, I saw two things. I saw two things, which were, one, she said that they constantly push back on the

idea of both leads being black. They said she could have one or the other. Well, that was my fault. I was working at Sony at the time. And I just felt like, all right, I need to say something. And that's, you know, here's the thing, you learn, you grow. Obviously, if you look at things in hindsight

and you, David's really upset, obviously, about my tenure at Sony. Well, yes, no. And you, look, you had to deal with the fallout when your emails got hacked I made a lot of mistakes around that period of time I had a problem I was drinking a lot

I was acting up sending wild emails to Gina Prince Byfoot I was sending mean emails to Gina and obviously now as you know I'm trying to get my career started I look back at that I apologize it wasn't necessarily right of me and obviously you know I'm looking forward get my career started i look back at that i apologize it wasn't necessarily right of me and obviously you know hope i'm like i'm looking forward to making events in this business and obviously having two black leads is definitely something that i think now i am more

open to considering in a film it's clean and rad and powerful thank you to quote the sony hacks who are the two names you had heard griff? I don't know if I saw names. I just saw that they said like, A, at least one of them needs to be a star and B, can you please have one of them be white? Right, because there are- I think she was carrying Nate Parker with her in the back pocket,

having worked with him on Secret Life of Bees. I think she thought she wanted him. Then she started seeing people, saw Goo Googu latched onto it sony said no and she said okay they gave her back the movie and she committed for another like two to three years trying to set the movie up somewhere else with gugu attached like she was very adamant i am not making this movie without you i think for the gugu part they wanted rihanna or beyonce i i mean i could see them being like can't we cast an

actual pop star yeah and then get like a nice little white boy to help out in the in the end they wanted they literally they just wanted to do the bodyguard yes yeah they just were like wait this looks like the bodyguard to us let's just do the bodyguard much like you know a star is born like you know they're like well we have the template let's just do the bodyguard much like you know a star is born like you know they're like well we have the template let's just do a star right yeah and it's like can't you see that it would be so much more interesting if it wasn't just the bodyguard again can't you see why that could be good but you have to imagine that's why sony latched onto it was like oh if we cast a pop star then the movie becomes is this autobiographical is it about her commenting on whereas when you cast an actress to deliver a fucking perfect performance you focus on

the actual story that's being told rather than trying to map it onto that actress's career right right right but another little decision was like the character was written to be american and a thing i gripe about all the time gina was like, can you try doing it in your natural accent? She does the accent. She goes, yeah, that's great. I'll just rewrite the character to make it British. That's why you and Samuel L. Jackson are feuding. Oh, wait, I'm feuding with Samuel. Oh, but wait, no, I'm

sorry. That's why Griffin is feuding with Samuel L. Jackson. Samuel L. Jackson classically believes that British black actors are stealing black American actors roles. Oh, sure. And to which I say, you're're not gonna get that opinion on this part hand on over to iconography if you want the tea of that sorry sorry you have to set in a few little you know back doors i'm not posting as much as i could or should so i gotta do the ads

where i can you don't i mean leave some breadcrumbs leave some breadcrumbs yeah easter egg for the folks i remember when i tried to get people to see this movie when it was still in theaters i'd go like let me tell you how november of 2014 so you and david wrapped in your scarves your nose is all red all red like that's what happens to our pockets full of cinnamon sticks yes and you've got your little knit beanies on that you knit for each other breath fogging anxiously as you wait for each other iphone 2's blinking blinking about to die oh will he show up will he show up? Will he show up? Will I see him? Will I see him?

What will happen? I miss my iPhone 2. Carolers outside as we blow on our hands and approach the ticket taker booth. Thanksgiving carolers, of course. Give them six pence for one ticket. Prancing down the cobblestones. Yes.

Saying hello to the projector man as he stretches his arms ready to crank for a for a solid 116 minutes or something the projector man he had like a little candle dish and he opened the window and he said you you two trivia nerds down there what day is it what day is it sir so day is it, sir? We are like November. I think it's like November 29th or something like that. It's November 29th or something like that.

It's me, either Griffin or David. Works for either of us. I just remember telling people when it was in theaters and I was trying to convince them to go see it. Because people hadn't even heard of it. Or if they'd seen the posters, like me, they didn't even know what it was in theaters and I was trying to convince them to go see it like because people hadn't even heard of it or if they'd seen the posters like me they didn't even know what it was about and I was like let me tell you how this film opens and then I'd start telling them and they'd go like wait don't tell me the whole movie and I'd go no that's just the first 10 minutes like this movie has such an engaging opening 10 minutes that just totally hook you in terms of just like what dramatic incidents to open on. The cold open is the scene with mini driver driving her young daughter

through the streets of London late at night, looking for a black hairdresser that is open late because her daughter is going to do her first talent show the next day. And she doesn't know how to tend to her daughter's hair. And she gets there just as they're closing up shop. And she pleads with the woman desperately to show them a kindness um now gina has said she was adopted by wealthy white parents in southern california grew up not knowing her birth mother until her 20s spent thousands of dollars over years hiring private investigators to try to find her birth mother never could find her

then one of her step siblings looked and found her in like two minutes. She tracked down her mother and her mother had her when she was a teenager. Her mother is white and said, I gave you up for adoption because I was white and you were black and I was in Chicago.

And the origin of this movie as a story is Gina trying to imagine what her childhood would have been like had her mother kept her. And everything sort of spirals out of that

and then other themes come in there as well even in that 10 minutes i think i mean like i didn't know all that which is like incredible um but i think just like for me like the the there's that that moment that like scene or those that sequence with like trying to find the hair and the talent show that is like so you know it's so real and so raw and you can already feel like okay wow like i'm watching well already a better movie than i thought this was going to be um like it just the feel of the camera is like so textured and like cool and then you're like immediately in that machine gun kelly music video terrifying transition masterpiece yes there's that hard transition where the first five minutes are kind of like delicate and poetic you know sad but like really kind of lived in

and then you get to the talent show. Here's this very, very shy, uncomfortable looking girl. She gets up, she starts singing, she kills it. And then you hear her audio, but they sort of like montage the rest of the talent show, the other acts, which feels like, oh, it's a foregone conclusion. From the moment this girl opens her mouth and she can sing like that,

it's very clear, it's undeniable she has the goods. The question is what happens as a result of that? But she doesn't have to prove herself as a singer. You see the other acts, including this little blonde girl doing her Shirley Temple routine, and then they come out to give out the awards, and they announce that young Nomi wins runner-up.

And you see her beaming as she gets this trophy. She's so excited. She's so happy. She won a trophy. And then this is the moment where I'm like, masterful. and you see her like beaming as she gets this trophy she's so excited she's so happy she won a trophy and then this is the moment where i'm like masterful this movie we are in a master's hands cut straight to mini driver and mini driver is irate and then it cuts back to nomi and immediately her joy is gone she feels no sense of accomplishment she's looking for her mother's pride and her mother is irate that she didn't win first place and it's like the system is fucked those judges are fucked we're gonna have to spend the rest of your life

fighting this we're gonna make you famous no matter what right then you hard cut to music video and it feels like in the first five minutes we've done like what and i don't mean this as a backhanded against the other movie but like the the effect of when you cut to Trevante Rhodes at the end of Moonlight and you go like holy shit how did that kid end up here it's that same sort of gap where you go from like incredibly shy painful young girl to now

straight to music video straight to crotch and it's like we've cut out the 15 years of her on the conveyor belt yeah there's been palms pumped. Just kidding. This may have been the first time I had seen Minnie Driver in a movie in 10 years. You didn't see Phantom of the Opera?

That's it. 10 years earlier. Oh, that was the 10 year point? Yeah. Yeah, probably. I think, I don't think, like, that's how gone she was like yeah she i guess she had done some tv right like she'd the riches well she did barney's she did barney's version you know i never did check out barney's version of things rosamund pike where's she she's another

where's she at i do love i'm less invested but i i've got problems my i'm probably gonna start an agency at some point that's google abatha rosamund pike and alden aaron reich you and i had a long alden dm about like how how has this gotten fucked up yeah and i think they all fall into that category yeah but you look at like hail ca, Gone Girl, Beyond the Lights, and you're like, this should be on autopilot now. It's all set up. It's there. It's right there for the taking. Another immediate thing.

You look at the fake music video in this movie and I go like, I buy this as a real music video. Yes, yes. I buy her as a real pop star. Everything has the right scope. I feel like very often things feel like the filmmakers, especially, I feel like when filmmakers make movies about pop music, it often feels condescending. Well, this is Vox Lux. Yes.

This is Vox Lux. This is you hate pop music. You don't listen to pop music. You don't respect it. You find it inherently misogynist. And so you're not choosing to respect it or give the women agency. It feels like you're parodying the thing that's inherently your subject matter yes so i think also a thing that's really interesting is like a lot of times you look at

these movies and then you look at the consultants and you go okay these are people who used to work in this industry they don't actually work in it anymore they pointedly moved out of it and because she's incredible she made sure she got people who actually like were still currently working and very talented like it's um you know uh like beyonce's hairdresser and like rihanna's stylist and like the music like you know diane warren is like writing songs and like she she's getting like working choreographers doing the choreography like she's making sure it's actually people who are engaged in this industry and can make it look and feel as real and and wantable and viable like actual pop and celebrity wants and and feels and it's also like as i think you were trying to build up to

griffin you got sidetracked but like this movie was made for seven million dollars right versus the more robust probably what imagines like 30 million or whatever that sony probably would have put up for it right like yeah exactly rogan a gentleman's rogan that's what you call 30 million dollars if you're getting 30 million dollars in hollywood it's you're seth rogan you're in roganville otherwise you're getting seven or you're getting 120 but only rogan gets exactly 30 for a budget if you think hard about like if you concentrate on like oh i guess this movie's not using a ton of locations like you know you know like then maybe you could see like okay i guess it was made pretty cheap like there but you it does not feel like a no essentially indie movie like i i like it's crazy it's so i specifically put my eye on at this time because i forget what episode it was but on some

recent episode david we were talking about how expensive it is to make a movie about rich people that things like rental mansion rentals and cars and like showing their nightlife and things like that like it inherently gets very expensive to make movies about people who live at the upper echelons of society and this is a movie where like when they go to award show when they're at a concert when they're at a party i believe it every single time for seven million dollars and she's clearly strategically like dressing things and picking her angles and how long she stays in places but i still i don't feel that strain ever it's pretty impressive and i also just think as you said i like you you believe that this movie has respect for the artistry

at every angle of her career whether or not it is the genre that she respects the most she's acknowledging like there is an artistry to doing a pop star photo shoot and a music video and how you dress for an award show and all these sorts of things and every choice feels very specific and lived in and accurate and it also does the thing that i feel like trips me up in so many movies about fictional famous people. Where every moment I go, I know exactly what level her career's at. Like, that makes sense. Every piece of context you're given for where she's at, what kind of career she has, how the public views her, it's like all coherent.

So she, to be clear, Noni, Noni Jean, is about to release her first album she's been doing a lot of features she's been breaking out this opening sequence we cut from her video to the award show where she's winning her first award but she's been collaborating with kid culprit we have to talk about him kid culprit do we have to talk about him we have to talk about him man no man i'm sorry we have to talk about him fine we need to talk about kid culprit is this the first movie he was in this was the first time the first movie he was in possibly yes i i thought you were gonna say is it the first time we discussed him because of course no there was roadies yes which i remember like being kind of sweet on like he's really sweet it was his first movie he didn't like tv things he was in um i mean the classic mtv show that everybody loves guy court

the guy code spinoff oh yes that everybody loves and remembers where danelle rawlings was the judge yes yes yes okay guy court here we go yes um and he was in an episode of uh wwe raw oh sure he was in two actually excuse me i i genuinely have no idea why he's called machine gun kelly i will tell you looking at his wikipedia page he's open about his use of cannabis he cites dmx and eminem as influences and he identifies as an anarchist so those are just some things you should know about machine gun kelly i will say i saw machine gun kelly at a protest yes i think he has been out during the protest like he's been putting in the time, right? Yeah. I saw him standing on things. I mean.

Wow. With his own legs? His own two feet? That's it. His own tall, tall legs. I don't know if Kid Culprit would be doing that, though. Kid Culprit seems a little more of a corporate creature. He's more Bieber.

Yeah. Yeah. He's going to do country music in two years. Good call. Yeah. He's about to hook up with with baba sparks guys he's called machine gun kelly because of his rapid fire delivery all right of course like a machine gun that's awesome god you needed that context okay machine gun yes i just want to know like kid culprit like where do you think he is

now six years later how's your so you're saying he's gone full country I think he's sober yeah and has like a girlfriend that he posts a lot of pictures like of him holding her ass on Instagram is he a member of the Hillsong church

he's his own cbd company like yeah um all right so all right so she's with kid culprit she's winning a billboard award i'm sorry carry on coupled yes yes but this is like the breakneck piece like i would tell people these opening 10 minutes and they'd go like hey slow down slow down where where are we in the film 90 minutes in i'm like no no this is like you're you're caught in the cycle of how rapidly her life is moving here these five minutes of just like everything everything everything and her having to constantly be on joking to everyone even when she gets in the back seat of the car and she's with

her entourage you can tell she's still performing Like she's still throwing out one-liners. They get up to the hotel. Nate Parker, security guard outside. She closes the door behind her. Rest of the entourage comes. Let us in, let us in. He says, no, she just told me not to let anyone in. Mini driver goes, I'm her mother.

You have to let me in. Door opens. She's been what? Alone, unattended for 60 seconds. Yeah, a couple minutes. Right. But I think this is key. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Not even right. Yeah. A couple minutes. Yeah. Right. But I think this is key is like,

it's such a small sliver of time when she whispers to him, don't let anyone in. You get the sense that he follows her, not just because he's kind of a man of honor, but also because he's pretty starstruck by the fact that she said something to him directly. I think it's just, he's just a serious fucking dude.

Cause that is that character. Yeah. He's just, he's just a serious fucking dude. Cause that is that character. Yeah. He's just, he just plays by the rules. His character at one point. So that says I'm really into quotes. So you are that type of guy. It's like,

yeah, he's a quote a holic. That's where I'm like, Hey, have you seen kid culprit around? I'm going to go when someone says I'm into quotes. Anyway, sorry, sorry, sorry. Relitigate kid culprit uh no but just so such a short period of time wow when griffin reigns david david ed i know right that's that's it we flipped we i think we fully flipped yeah david's off the leash these days david's buck wild i know because david's replying to my tweets now

i know like crazy you were his reply guy now he's your reply guy no i love it though it makes me feel cool yeah it's fucking rad sorry uh anyway great transition door opens and she's halfway over the railing about to jump off the balcony of her hotel room which is just like such a startling opening of i feel like very often when public figures have like uh mental health crises you know or like suicide attempts or things like that the the dialogue is always why are they so depressed look at them they're rich they're famous they're successful she has everything she wants like well what could a problem be so the cold open is that in a microcosm right it's like you're seeing just success success success she's center of the storm everyone's loving her she's on the verge of a bigger breakthrough and yet left unattended for 60 seconds she's about to throw

herself out a window so the mother in a parker rushed to her comes. He grabs her arm. She says, you don't see me. He says, I see you with the passion of a thousand suns. It's a good moment. Not since Avatar. Not since Avatar. Well, it's kind of Titanic-y too, right? Like early, early meet cute

when one character is trying to commit suicide and the other character is nobly trying to stop them. Deeply, deeply aided by the fact that they're both like good actors and very very it doesn't feel cheap yes and it's also it's the thing griffin said the fact that they're not super famous actors you're like i just buy that these are these people you know like you're you're not having to sort of think they're blank slates for you you're not bringing in your own baggage.

And I was reading Bilga's review from when this came out because he's always been such a good writer on Gina's movies. And he said this thing that I think is interesting. Yes. Bilga Eberi. Wait, Bilga Eberi? Bilga Eberi. Okay.

Sometimes my name looks like his name and his name looks like my name oh maybe maybe the two of you should swap bylines sometimes and see if anyone notices i don't think they would like just swap assignments yeah let's see wherever he goes well he's kind of a worse writer iconography with olivia and bilga i don't know might be fun think about it uh but he said like you know he looks her in the eye and says i see you but you have to question whether he really does and it's not that this guy isn't like a very serious focused man of integrity but it's just the fact that like she's built she's got so many layers of artifice on top of her right now that you have to question whether anyone could really see her like what he means when he says

that and i think what he's saying is just i can see that there's someone underneath all of this but who that person is is kind of imperceptible at this point other than that he's just seeing the cry from for help from whoever's trapped inside of that. And just like the speed at which the media cycled, like within 45 minutes, they're giving public press conference in front of like local news crews trying to spin the story to their advantage, which is she got drunk. She had heels on. She slipped. He's a hero. He saved her.

It wasn't a suicide attempt. Yeah, she slipped over a railing over whatever who hasn't had five glasses of champagne i think she says right with five inch heels on like she turns into a quip you know it's like kid culprit says towards the middle of the movie you use the press don't let the press use you i love quotes that's such a good quote thank you if i can be a little bit of a quote meister over here when mini driver at the end of the movie says it's a game it's all a game like i feel like that's this movie's attitude on the the fame machine is like if you're trying to do this every single thing you do is a move in a game you can never make just sort of independent emotional decisions well and mini driver who's great in this movie

as her mom macy uh is also like to her fame is you know there's a lot of power to it right like you know like if she is able to call the shots that means that she is secure right like that seems to be her general outlook on how to approach everything which is incredibly aggressive and has turned noni into a suicidal mess right well she's just like under such immense pressure and at the same and yet i am fairly sympathetic to basically every character in this movie except maybe maybe Kid Culprit. But, you know, whatever. I'm sure Kid Culprit's going to figure it out. So there's like this immediate whirlwind.

I mean, by the time Danny Glover's in like the parking lot talking to Nate Parker, he's like, crazy hour, huh? Like, it's like, this has all moved so fast. Just Danny giving me gravel is all I want. Just like, listen, Kaz, you you're gonna have to give this you know just anytime he brings out the gravel i love that voice so much you can barely hear him you know what this is yeah i'm gonna down here hey it's like so bad like baldwin it's like barely even registering right can you understand me because i can't understand myself but this thing of like here's nate parker and he just seems like this like upstanding cop

dude but then you find out he's got this like very sort of enterprising father who also views his son as being on a longer career track uh uh, that he has this sort of pipeline for his son to become a politician that his father was previously the police commissioner. Is that right? I don't think he was the commissioner. He's like a captain. He's like some sort of, you know, maybe he was like a, you know, figure in the union or something. He's like a, you know, whatever, a lifer in the LAPD. And his son wants to be a politician. And he has every gosh darn biography you could imagine in his house. I think it's that thing where it's like he's like a lifer and like important in the community. But like mostly is important amongst like the black elite.

Hence that like dinner thing. Yeah, where he's meeting with like the black elite hence that like dinner thing yeah where he's meeting with like the pastors the community leaders neighborhood he's he's like respected and he's respecting his community but he just like doesn't take a moment like within an hour of this like incident with nomi over the balcony he's in the parking lot of the hotel saying like we gotta strike while the iron's hot. Like, this is an opportunity to accelerate your pathway to public office.

He's also called, Nate Parker's character, he's called Kazam? Yes. Yes. Okay. They call him Kaz. And the reason why

is because his parents were into African culture? They thought it was African. That's the explanation they give. Is that what was African? They thought it sounded African. They thought it sounded African. Is what he says. Yeah.

Okay, good. Okay. Well. But maybe, maybe Shaq is his biological father, right? Like maybe that's why he's named Kazam. It's a little hat tip from mom. Yeah. Maybe. Well, she doesn't know. It's possible. She doesn't know if it's Shaq or his biological father, right? Like maybe that's why he's named Kazam. It's a little hat tip from mom. Yeah. Maybe.

Well, she doesn't know. She doesn't know if it's Shaq or Sinbad. So she, she just Kazams it. She got very confused. She got really confused. Yeah. Yeah. Very confused.

Yeah. So, yes. So you're right. He is basically like this happens and they're like well like no better time apparently some city councilman's getting indicted they're like time for you to just nudge right into that spot yeah and you have uh what's your name asia hines who plays like sort of his strategist every time anything happens in the movie she goes like this is great actually we can switch from this angle to this angle we thought we were positioning you as this but now you're this

we can slot you in here instead of here like everything he does he's very much someone operating from a very genuine place of what feels right moment to moment but everyone around him is constantly telling him he's oh he's a corny ass he's a corny guy let's be honest he's a very corny person yes yes yes like he became a cop because he wants to serve the neighborhood. He's like basic. He wants to be a politician. He's like truly basic. He's like a James Comey.

I believe I can learn how to be fundamentally correct in every situation. And then when somebody is like, do you want to turn this into a, this book into a TV show? He's like, okay, I like quotes quotes so as long as my quotes are in there he loves quotes but like it it makes it should be it shouldn't totally work and i i do i mean you know whatever i'm a little more invested in the in the noni side of the movie but like his basicness is crucial to his appeal right like he's just just absolutely refuses to be like interesting in the ways that would bother her i guess like you know like kid culprit is his like kid culprit is just all bits and all like nonsense and he's just like extremely no nonsense i i do think that's

like the challenge for actors with uh prince bythewood movies is that she's like an incredibly earnest filmmaker. You know, like she's a very earnest movie. She's cutting, but she's not. She doesn't have like a sarcastic bone in her body, at least in her filmmaking. And Bilge's review, he talks about how it's just like, geez, I forgot this was a genre. Like I forgot these types of movies exist. It's actually just an adult romantic drama. And so often that's being cut with something else,

or it's for teenagers, or it's Nicholas Sparks, which moves into melodrama, or whatever it is. And it takes a lot of confidence as an actor to be able to play these scenes incredibly straight, where you're not like underselling it with jokes because you're worried the audience will laugh yeah well the

more and it is like sorry go no we're gonna say i just think like that commitment is what helps make it better and like feel more grounded like when i don't know that vulnerability is like clearly there it just like, totally, it adds, it only adds and doesn't subtract. And it's hard. I just, that now that thing is like reverberating in my head of, uh,

Alison Brie and the brother. Oop. I'm canceled. Elevated. David. Elevated romantic. Yes. Dave Frank.

Dave Frank. There you go. David. David Frank. Um, um but yeah you know we we're not close but it's like yeah well i mean it's not not there and and like have the courage of your convictions to just be like we're making a romantic comedy like anytime i hear someone say this is elevated horror this is elevated romantic comedy or anything like that it sounds like you're embarrassed of the genre you've chosen to work in which makes me think you're gonna be like cushioning it with those layers of like ironic detachment or like meta

commentary it's like jordan peele it's like get out or it's like no this wasn't elevated this is the genre that i like and work in and there's examples of it and maybe you know there's like jordan peele it's like get out or it's like no this wasn't elevated this is the genre that i like and work in and there's examples of it and maybe you know there's like a version or versions where it's it's it feels cheaper or mass produced or not as engaging but it's that's not because of the genre that's not a problem with the genre that's a problem with things outside of it. Right. I feel like he was very consistent with that in marketing the movie, where before it came out,

and people were like, so it's kind of a horror comedy because of his background? He was like, no, it's a horror movie. Hopefully some of it is funny. I think comedy is essential to horror movies, but it is not a horror comedy. And then after it came out,

and it blew up, and people were like, oh, so it's like elevated horror? He's like, no, it's a horror movie. I'm glad you like it. It's a horror comedy and then after it came out and it blew up and people were like oh so it's like elevated horror he's like no it's a horror movie i'm glad you like it it's a horror movie like he just kept underlining don't belittle the genre that i love yes and chose to work in uh and and i feel like gina's like you know she she makes these very classical old hollywood movies that are like full of adult emotions and like internal drama and things like that. And she demands of her actors like a real confidence and commitment to that. Now, this is the thing that like we sort of been talking around that we should acknowledge quickly,

which is I hadn't watched this movie since the complete Nate Parker implosion. And because this character is so earnest and is so based around being like the world's most stoic, decent man, I was very worried about whether or not it was going to bump. And I didn't find in my watching that it did. And I feel like a lot of movies we've covered that have like now problematic leads. I feel like it often breaks down into whether those people are primarily actors or movie stars and whether or not you still have the ability to like view them a little objectively.

Because like, for example, when we have had to watch Mel Gibson movies for this show, you now just see the latent mania in every single performance you know like yeah well i mean that was part of his appeal in a way exactly it was people thought of it differently right the stuff that was battling bubbling under the surface was always there and now it's sort of like unignorable watches where he's not obviously like that canceled as far as we know or whatever but where it's like okay now we openly know he's a little, he's a little off.

Um, he's got, he's made some choices. Um, and it's like, Oh, he has made some choices. That's what I'm watching.

I'm watching the mind of a man. Or like watching Kevin Spacey performances where you're like, Oh, I guess he toned it down to play this serial killer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like those kinds of things.

David doesn't like that i said that he he gave me a look that was like let me consult my inner uh understanding of libel laws true true but but but i do think that nate parker is very much giving like an actor performance in this it is not relying on some inherent movie star persona which means that like you know for better or worse i feel like i'm able to watch this and like what you said in a blank slate kind of way just really engage with this character yeah i mean it's it's also one of those things where i'm like i don't want to invalidate like how good this movie is also.

Like I I want to like hold those things true. Yeah. It's tricky. I mean it is also just like

that goes to that larger conversation to me of sorry separating separating the fart and the farter. I i'm not i i'm with you i know you gotta separate the fart and the farter from the fartist you gotta yeah and i also think there's

a difference sometimes between like people who say you gotta separate the artist from the art and the art is about the thing that makes the artist. Correct. Sure. Yeah. Problematic. Where the artist is still like very clearly like having a career. Right. Right. Right. But yeah. So the movie very quickly goes to there's the scene that's sort of in that like conference room of the hotel after they do the little press conference where she's sort of sizing him up how are you going to spend your 15 yes and he's like

what and she's like you got 15 minutes of fame i mean the hero cop angle you're going to get laid like crazy and he doesn't even understand what she's saying to him the idea of being that calculated about it even though he already has a team who are trying to weaponize it for a political career. But I think that's when she starts to like recognize, oh, this seems to be

one of the first people I've interacted with in a long time who isn't trying to use me in some sort of way. I think he's also sort of helping with showing how absurd it is that no one else is worried about her yes right he has that like he brings it up several times where he's like what you just want me to

read this statement and say that she tripped and it's like yeah she's got an album to worry about and he's like 45 minutes ago she was on the edge of a balcony don't you think we should make sure she's okay but no one else is putting any mind into that everyone else is just like how do we clean up this mess but yes they you're you're right that that's like he's the he's everyone's just like anyway and he's like why are you all behaving like she didn't just try and throw herself off a fucking building like this is insane and she is impressed by that i guess i guess that's the initial connection apart from that he saw her she's also kind of insincere immediately she switches

back into this kind of sarcastic mode right like which is her force field right like she's sort of already making fun of the ICU thing like kind of quickly and like he just is not defensive about anything like that's what's sort of appealing

about his character he's just like okay well that all right I guess he didn't like that like you know like I don't know he just he's into quotes yeah he just doesn't give a shit about her whole thing the man loves quotes I will say I wonder um

you know this is kind of like skipping ahead and around or whatever but but you know it's like he's kind of like the only black person in her inner circle as well aside i mean she performs at the bt awards and there's like black execs at meetings and whatever or helping her but in her, like inner circle who she, you know, like who kind of affects her journey. Otherwise,

like he is like one of the first black people. And I think that there is something important about that in terms of, I don't know, just the emotionality of the film and thinking about later when she decides to take off the wig and like actually wear her hair naturally well that's that's such a huge moment that's the best it's no it's the best movie i think yeah yes when she says to mini driver like you you got me a new nose you got me all this indian hair like this idea of having one real solid person in her life like her mother's the one person she's

had the entire time who has never totally understood her cultural identity and has in fact been trying to sort of repackage it yeah in a different way yeah i'm just getting frustrated again thinking of the hallmark of a movie star which is having a line in a movie saying that you got a nose job when that's your actual real beautiful nose a la julia roberts in not a hair nose is so good that it's a believable nose job no that's somebody in a movie can write the line you got me a new nose and everybody goes yeah why not wow well that's a good one she should be a movie star she should be a movie star she should be a movie star you have that first uh record executive scene where i i feel like it's only white executives in that early scene there's the guy what's his name neil the ship

yes yeah um but yes in the later scene there's whatever the head of the label who is black but but in the first scene he's not there yes yeah right so she's walking all over them negotiating with the white lower level executives uh who mini driver is very competitive with and there's that line i wrote down where they say in front of nomi's face look the problem is like she's supposed to be the dream girl she's supposed to be the woman that every guy wants to be with and every girl wants to be and suicide isn't sexy and it's such a good like encapsulation of the this sort of like um the this sociopathy of the entertainment industry where you just have to accept people talking to your face about you as if you're a product like disconnected from

your identity as a human being with thoughts and feelings. Right. They're talking about your public identity, not like whatever you are as a person. They don't care about that. It's just like, well now suicide isn't your thing. Right.

And that's a problem. It's just such a brutal line and they cut to Google and she just kind of like sits there and it's just like another thing she's had to hear in her 15 years of these types of meetings yeah maybe that's a little more personal in terms of like a specific incident they're talking about but you can tell it's just like this is the stuff that's like weighing down on her yeah so then i think she follows she goes back to see or no nate parker goes back to see her the next night tries to get in can't he tries to get in uh has to wait outside but that's when essentially their romantic getaway hour of

the movie starts right where they basically just like escape from it all hit the road and do their own thing yeah eat take out in a car watch airplanes she has a milkshake she has a milkshake right she has all the because there's that that scene where where a mini driver picks up a hotel napkin to take her hash browns off her plate which in the hotel so right so yeah she gets to eat junk food they look at the planes i don't know what do they talk about quotations some more maybe he introduces the idea of being afraid of flying yes yes that's right we yes i understand yes this is his regular spot where he goes to watch the planes go overhead because he's too afraid

to get on one of them himself he is more afraid than i am because he has never been on a plane out of fear like i at least i will you know if i have to i'll suck it because he has never been on a plane out of fear. Like I, at least I will, you know, if I have to, I'll suck it up and I'll get on a plane. Like I hate it, but I'll do it. But he hasn't even tried that out yet.

He's still too scared to get on a plane. I'm trying to decide whether or not to ask you the very personal question that you can probably predict. I want to ask you what if I see, no, I'm not asking. I'm not asking if you're a member. I'm asking, the scene in this film in which they make love on a private jet

as someone with plane anxiety, do you think that would make you more anxious or more relaxed? In the least graphic way, I'm asking in the abstract. Griffin, the more you yell yell the less chill it feels yes uh i will say i am being very chill griffin griffin let me answer i'm being so chill i read i sometimes watch a youtube account of some guy who like takes the fanciest no yeah he watches it takes. This guy's a freak. I'm telling you.

He takes like the fanciest planes. He's like, I'm going on an A380 and I'm like, you know, I'm going in like ultra first class. Like Top Gear, but planes? Yeah, I mean, it's boring, but I just want to see what it looks like on the plane. And like one of the

planes, it had airways and like you're you have like a a chair, like a sort of like double chair that you can watch a movie in. And then you can go into your other room where there's a double bed. Like that's that's the level. It's like a twenty thousand dollar ticket or whatever. I could have sex in that thing. There's no way I would feel comfortable and you know, just like go to a bathroom.

Capitalism. Yeah, look at this. Only thing gets him hard is money. It would it's just that there's a bed. You got a little space. That's all. Otherwise, that's stacks of bills. That doesn't sound

comfortable. It was made out of, you know just be stressed out. Yeah, what's that bed made out of? Stacks of bills? That doesn't sound comfortable. It's made out of, you know, feathers or whatever. Sure. If you really cared about the people, you would fuck in coach class. In public. In the middle of the plane. If you really cared about the people, you would drill a hole on the top of the plane. And have sex on it yeah david you're halfway in the hole

and halfway in the plane okay everybody can still see you yes what is this what do they call the train equivalent oh like instead of the mile high club it's like the you know a rail i don't know well i remember that why did you just volunteer that smiling come on train club nobody's there's no train there's no club. It's just the train club? There's no club. You and Thomas? Why are you saying like it's a club? It's just you. I feel like there's other train heads out there. Don't say train heads. That's not right.

That's wrong. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I don't know what it is, but it's wrong. We got to go back wherever. We got to go back to the movie. So we start getting into montage territory right right they go back to her place and she comes on to him and he leaves after one smooch yes because he's like you

got to figure out this kid culprit thing right which she then does right away like she's like you know yeah you're right no no no they start being together a little bit because they have like the one mini fight about the kid culprit thing where she brings it up to him uh she she brings it up what does she bring up she brings it up independently like look i have to tell you there's like this thing with kid culprit that isn't put it together yeah it's two separate scenes because then we get into a little montagey stuff of him accompanying her danny glover's like look you got to be conscious of your narrative do you want to bring this in you know it's all a game

what's your move here what does he say like don't don't get too into your weedies yeah um and uh but you see him starting to accompany her to stuff get ridden up about she comes outside his precinct one day while he's like uh bringing in that uh domestic violence guy and immediately it's like she's turning it into a pr event i do like that at this period of the movie you still have to like kind of question her actions and all these scenes yeah because it's like she's so programmed to look for press opportunities that even like when he brings up to her i had the national inquirer and all these different papers offer me this much money for an exclusive she starts to get defensive and angry at him and he's like i'm not doing that i wouldn't do that i'm just telling you money essentially it's out there and then she immediately shifts to i can

tell you're the type of person who wouldn't do that. And then starts kissing him. And in that moment, you go, like, is she actually, I believe she's attracted to him. But how much of her choosing to kiss him at this exact moment is her trying to make sure he's on her side? It's hard to, like, totally root for it. Which I think also works in favor of, like, the arc of their romance. But it is hard to root for it because you, for me also, I'm just like, oh, there is so much brokenness to her that you know that it's going to be a romantic obstacle for sure.

Yeah. Because she's just so damaged by this industry and the cycle of affection that she's been taught she's worthy of yeah it's like she's still chasing the look of her mother approving in the audience that she didn't get at that first talent show how does she put it

to kid culprit it's like we I can't remember the euphemism she uses now and I want to find it like you know where she describes their, the extent of their romantic life. Yeah. You know, it's like we kick,

it's not kick it though, but it's something kind of cute, right? We texted, we hit it and we texted about hitting it. That's how she puts it. Yeah. That's,

that's the extent of intimacy for her. And it's also implied that it was like very much a fake press thing that then was consummated but didn't really turn into anything serious. But because they were still being positioned as are they or aren't they, they kind of couldn't totally break it off. But so many good details

as you're getting into all this stuff and like Nate Parker starting parker studying starting to accompany her in all these aspects of her life like the little details like her being lubed into those stockings the weirdness of like her just on her phone checking tweets about people making jokes about her suicide attempt while like one woman just jiggles both of her boobs and another woman is like greasing vinyl onto her legs. The idea of all that stuff just becoming like weird commonplace while you're just being completely like handled. And then that scene where she's doing the photo shoot and the guy very casually tells her to take the jacket off and she gives the look to Minnie Driver.

And Minnie Driver doesn't even nod, but just kind of like stares her down and she takes the jacket off. And now it's a topless photo shoot. nate parker turns around because he doesn't think it's gentlemanly to look um and a little detail i love that i like just point out is one of the scenes where they're like where he's showing she's showing him her lyrics for the first time her notebooks and he's which is essentially quotes almost or quote like almost that's why he loves them they're musical quotes. But they're sitting on the floor of her bedroom, and there's just a line of suitcases alongside the wall.

And it's such a good detail of just like, oh, right, she's just like constantly probably traveling everywhere, even in her own home. She is perpetually in a state of not having unpacked from the most recent trip or already packed for the next trip. You know, there were like those little things, even when they're just visual, that just are like, man, Gina's like done the work and actually considered what it's like to be someone on this kind of hamster wheel. It just all looks real, like none of it looks like a bad Photoshoposhop a bad parody like everything she does feels like a legitimate pop career um but then i guess you have the i'm trying to think what the big blow-up is

she loses the record contract but that's because of the big award show performance right that's when she tries to break it off with kid call yes right where he's sort of like you know shoving her around on stage pushing her into his crotch like things and she like she you know pushes back because she goes to visit him on sets he's of a music video season in his trailer he's very like totally i get it it's fine uh have fun with hero cop um and then at the award show first the backup dancers try to take her jacket off and what feels like it's supposed to be like a janet jackson move and she strongly holds it back mini driver's looking on a frustration but she's like trying to win back her autonomy uh not get pressure into doing things she doesn't want to do nate parker's looking on an approval

and then uh kid culprit just becomes a fucking monster on stage feels the need to uh protect what he thinks as his sense of public masculinity by not making it look like he was uh uh dropped for the hero right yes uh now there's a director's cut on the Blu-ray that is a difference of 15 seconds long. And much like Love and Basketball, it sounds like it was literally a matter of 15 seconds between this movie being PG-13 and R. I watched the director's cut this time. I could not identify the differences. But looking up interviews with her, it sounds like it is that scene just going a little bit further. The plane scene going a little bit further the plane scene going a little further it's a similar thing where like love and basketball was apparently this close to

being r without it having nudity without it being incredibly graphic but she just likes to push for a level of detail in these things that tends to make uh the mpaa skittish um so she said that was like the big fighting point for them was that scene that she wanted that scene to be genuinely upsetting and they had to go through several rounds of cutting

to still make it past as PG-13. That being said, the art version I watched, not a huge difference in my eyes. 15 seconds. But so after that, right, Nate Parker comes on stage,

he punches Kid Culprit out and once again, like the narrative is out of their control andprit out, and once again, like, the narrative is out of their control. And the record label flips, and they're like, we're dropping the album, we can't sustain this,

you're done. Yeah, that's when they go on their big romantic getaway. They go to, you know... Nate Parker takes her away. He recognizes that she just needs to fucking get out of this, like, biodome. She gets her hair she cuts her

you know um her weave off and she sings carrie i mean this is the best part of the movie right am i crazy like this is this is the most arresting part of the whole movie and also as someone who like knew so little going into the movie this is where i start to get really excited about like oh this is where it's going like this movie is going to be about not just some bodyguard-esque romance but about the process of this woman stripping away everything that has been built on top of her towards a pop career i remember a theater gasping when she cuts her hair yeah yeah like that was that actually got an audible reaction

from our theater. Yeah. And it's like, you know, obviously a thing that speaks to my white guy ignorance. But in that moment when she goes to the mirror

and she's starting to look at her hair up close and then gets out like the knife, it was the first time I recognized like, oh, of course, that isn't her real hair. I just didn't even consider it until that point wow talk about colorblind i get it i know i know i know i know purple so

yeah yeah no but it was like it was it was part of the gasp for me is just like oh right i'm in a position where i just wasn't even thinking about that but it is such as a powerful visual i can't like i can't laugh it's it's like that's how funny it is to me i can't laugh it's like oh oh decades of black women being like don't ask about our hair and you doing it to the point where you're like yeah if a black woman wants to grow purple straight hair out of her head yeah i believe her yeah i went too far in the opposite direction he just just total ignorance on griffin's findings if a woman shows you her hair believe her right that's just something that happens well that to griffin is the strength and resilience of black women that if they make up in their mind that they want to grow purple

straight hair out of their heads they can do that i i think black women can do anything i want to grow purple straight hair out of their heads they can do that i i think black women can do anything i want to make that very well that's sort of the problem right that's a little bit too far absolutely a huge issue it's a huge issue with me and you know yes yes oh boy i can grow purple straight hair out of my head i just don't want to i want to make that very i believe i believe that i fundamentally believe that I don't question that for a second. Aya, what do you think of this whole sojourn? You know, come on, the karaoke, all this stuff. I love the stupid trip.

I just love the dumb little stupid trip because, like, you can just see, like, the relief on her. The beach scene is, like, so perfect. on her the beach scene is like so perfect the sweet little bartering for the merit badge they get that dog i'm so happy they got that dog on the beach with them that little dog running around on the beach with them how'd they get that dog it's a private plane like especially in lockdown does anything seem more appetizing than someone just being like i packed your bag come with me we're going on vacation we're going to the beach we're simply we're getting away from everything yeah it's just so it's so great and it's like i the cutting of the hair is like fantastic and like so well done and the only you know that's the kind of detail that

you know most people working in hollywood would not even think to bring into the movie yeah like that is you can say it say it david that i would not think to bring into the movie if griffin had written and directed beyond the lights he probably right he would instead have a scene where she explains that she grew her purple hair and she's crying and she's sobbing sobbing sobbing i don't know where these powers come from all the studio chiefs to be like yeah that's a great scene that makes sense they may all be green lighting it to black women um i think just yeah also the karaoke is like adorable because they look like stupid tourists. And I love. And he's bad at it.

Yes. Like in a cute way. I love her like actually being in disguise. I think about the trope a lot of like black people. Like if a black woman had to do like an alias there, there's like a there's a sketch that I truly love. there's like a there's a sketch that i truly love that's an snl packet of of your um that is like if a black person had to do an alias and like nobody believing them um because if i just you mean alias like if i just like if i was a spy yeah oh sorry me saying it like a verb that doesn't really i guess sure um but if i just like had to put on a red wig like everybody would know

it was me just with a red wig on like I wouldn't be like a completely different person I would believe that you had done it I know that you would it's not a you thing it's not a you thing Griffin I know that you would do it I'm just saying maybe maybe they should be

a new pass of that script in which I come in as a very strong ally who believes in anything I don't know who you are and even if I did I wouldn't say who you are I wouldn't identify you and that's how i feel bye now happy vacation i mean yeah just write me into a quick five pages of that sketch her going on with like out in the

street and just out and about with like her little pups is like so yes stinking cute and then the karaoke scene like echoing the beginning where it's just like you are gifted. You are talented. When you strip everything down and you are just the artist you're allowed to be, you are so good at this thing. Why are you doing this in the first place? You love singing.

And there's literally the echo. At one point in the song, when she's singing Blackbird a cappella, they drop in an echo of the child actress singing blackbird from the opening it's one of the rare movies where someone goes viral because you know they were like filmed candidly right you know you know yeah where that makes sense and fits very nicely into the plot you know usually it's like exactly i'm sorry retired bit oh god oh boy um but yes because when she comes back from this vacation she is now famous again like the narrative has shifted again and now it's like

she's authentic we love it we love how authentic she is but once again another thing where you go like i believe that people who did not know who she was would still record this performance because it was this good and i believe if it went online people would identify her and it would genuinely go viral yes like both sides of it makes sense you have that small moment when the couple comes up to her and asks her for the photo and she like tenses up and agrees and then realizes they want her to hold the camera right right right that's really nice i just like i like that when this happens like it's not like in an easy movie then it's like okay well now now that she's proven herself in this new way she gets to do whatever she wants and it's sort of like this

sort of like side version of that where mini driver is like great now that she had this authentic moment i get to use that as leverage to get what we what i want what i think we need right you know what i mean like it's so heartbreaking yeah right bilga and his review said like the i keep on quoting bilga but his review is really good for this movie but like that that mini driver is just playing such a raw nerve that it's scary because you don't understand what she's going to react to and how right and that scene you just get like totally like hook line and sinker sold on the idea that now she has taken this as a learning moment she lost her daughter she's getting her back

she's gonna fight for what her daughter wants and then the reveal of like no she's just being really petty she hates this guy neil she feels like she he big-dogged her in a meeting and now she just wants him to get fired for her ego they they have that conversation when when mini driver like comes to get her that feels very authentic right that where where she's talking about being a mom and like her family disowning right you know like and then but then the second scene this the argument that they have where she's like well i just you know i wanted to get rid of neil like she feels authentic there too it's just a different kind of whatever you know like that that's that's another side of her personality that has as we

know have it's always been there gina prince by the wood i think doing that cool thing of like taking what is like a stereotype and like laying these very human real things and allowing their relationship and the things in the history and the complicated entanglements and like entwinements that they have because of just these years of like mutual damage in their relationships allowing it to play in a moment that feels really real and not cheap and not like total stereotypical like sociopathy or whatever have you watched uh old guard yet i have watched old guard i love old guard and i feel like everything you just said applies to that movie as well because as you said it's a classic gina it's it speaks to her whole canon but that same thing of like on its face haven't i seen this movie 20 times before

and it's like no the investment in the history between these characters and finding ways to very quietly indicate the history without explaining or over explaining right is like her whole mastery yeah um i was just gonna say to lay out the crux of the argument is uh the album that they previously were going to shelve which has been printed and now they're back on to wanting to release because she's gone viral uh nomi wants to pull it so that they can add new tracks she wants to do a blackbird cover she wants to do her original songs and it's this argument over whether or not they can incur the cost of that which mini driver has the upper hand because shitty neil had erroneously sent her a fax saying the contract was terminated but uh you get

back to that scene with the two of them in the kitchen where it feels like they're both sort of stripped down to how they were when she was very young before they got in the career path they're talking about mini driver making mom's famous blank how every food that she would make for her as a child she would call mom's famous and it's like this very sweet tender scene where you're seeing this very different dynamic from her and you really feel like oh that that's done they've solved their relationship she solved her career how to be like a genuine sort of honest artist everything's good now and then mini driver just like flips over her hand and it's like no i mean we can't swallow the cost the album's there we'll do that later right

right right yeah you'll be honest later i just want to fuck with neil it's it's so so good but i respect it i i get i get mini driver even though i don't like her in that moment everyone has their reasons yes yeah it's wild to fire your mom though yes yeah it is i know that does feel like a fun thing as a celeb though right like if you were like a kid celeb uh like the day when it comes where you're like hey guess what i'm actually i allowed to fire you. But that thing, I feel like you see that with a lot of stage parents where Minnie Driver is like, I'm the career here.

You're just the person who sings. Like because she's been like seeing big picture from the time that she was a child. She thinks that like she's the star of the enterprise. I watched the documentary Showbiz Kids kids i think is the name of it the alex winter thing yeah one of the things that was really interesting there were a few people who were who just were like you feel this weird sort of indebtedness to your parents and you're both an adult and a child in it like you're both like the boss and completely infantilized because you,

you, you're your parents boss, but also they're your manager. And then you have to constantly have in the back of your mind that they sacrificed a lot for you to be where you are. Like they sacrificed a ton. Obviously, I know what that's like because of my tenure on Home Improvement.

Of course. I was one of the sons on Home Improvement. You played Zachary Ty Bryant on Home Improvement. Yes, and I think I did a really good job. Excellent. You disappeared into the role. Yes, and I think I did a really good job. Excellent. You disappeared into the role. Yeah, well, I'm my method. But yeah, I mean, it's tricky. It's weird.

There's a, Jason Bateman's inside the actor's studio. And I feel like Jason Bateman is like very like, I'm in control. I know exactly what I'm saying all the time. It's like the one time he gets a little touchy when James Lipton asked him about, because I think that was a case where for both of the Batemans,

their parents gave up their jobs and became acting coaches. So scary. And for both of them, it came out in the press that they were taking a cut of the salaries that their children earned to pay themselves as acting coaches for their children lord and lipton asked bateman about that i think like assuming it would be like a macaulay caulkin type thing where he'd be like well i had a bad relationship with my father and i've worked to mend it since and bateman's very weird about it

where he's like well it's like a weird situation because like i mean sort of what you're saying i owe but he was like you know like my parents didn't have a job like we started making money as kids and they had to give up everything in their lives and uproot it to build everything around us being successful which we were the ones making the money which is a weird dynamic but also he wasn't doing anything else other than following me everywhere. So he needs to get paid somehow for something. And then he sort of like goes like, let's talk about dodgeball.

Right. Right. But I do think that's why the mini driver character is still somewhat sympathetic. I mean, a, she's not written as being a villain, but B,

I think you get the sense that the movie has in mind all of those dynamics in the big picture, even if it's not stated that directly. I mean, she says all the stuff about, like, it was just the two of us against the world. We were in this together. I had to figure out something. You understand that it's not coming from a place

of being some monstrous villain. Not necessarily or, yeah totally right parasitic or or whatever yeah so then then after it all gets figured out i don't know like we cut to her at a festival months later like well yes no that's at the beginning of that scene before she fires many drivers she tells her we got this offer to do this festival they want you to end with blackbird like the big exciting news of you get to they're specifically asking you to do what you want to do um so yeah then it pretty much cuts straight to that where she's gonna do her first kind of like honest end of josie and the pussycats if you like what you hear that's great if not that's okay too um i'm

just casually quoting the most important moment in the history of american cinema but uh nate parker shows up backstage there was the scene where she goes to see him at his home yeah and he you know she said like it was a pretty great moment we had and he said like yeah it was pretty perfect right and he says it was based on a lie it could never be perfect if it was based on a lie. Which is pretty cutting. But then he shows up backstage at this concert and he says, I love you.

In a very casual way, she's going up the stairs, not like it's some big end of movie proclamation. He just goes, I love you and I'm not going to take it back this time.

Unlike the time he accidentally said it prematurely while fucking her on a plane. Whoops. We've all done it. Happens to the best of us except Ben who that happens to on a train. Yes. It's a train situation for Ben.

Right. Right. Absolutely. The train club. Oh boy. And that's a moment where I genuinely swooned in theaters. And then she goes on stage and she sings her truth, her original song, which is pretty good. I do think for all the other factors we're talking about, why this movie didn't connect at the time and seeing it now in a post Star is Born reality.

And I love this movie infinitely more than Star is Born. I don't know about that. I did watching it this time go, man, what if this final song was even like one-tenth of a Shallows? Yeah. The music is the one place this movie falls a little short for me.

Which most of it's not supposed to be very good. Well, it's like, okay, so I know that I was forgetting names when when i was like naming collaborators earlier and one is the dream produced a lot of the songs i think the songs that are like digestible pop songs which also which is like that's what the dream does really well yes are really are all good and then i think i agree other things that maybe the dream doesn't do as well and maybe his solo can attest to that sorry if there are any the dream fans um

who listen to this pod but i think that also attests to like maybe the quality being i think so it's yes i i agree with your assessment outright Blackbird's obviously a good song when she's covering Blackbird that works uh when it's supposed to be her commercial pop stuff that stuff works I think the song at the end of the movie just works enough it's fine but I wish it was transcendent yes right that's the thing you want you want the shallows octave change moment which you don't get. And the finale works because Gugu's selling it and the movie's built up to it properly. But it is the one thing now looking at it where I'm like, if this movie had an undeniable song at the end, it might have been enough to get more people to see it.

I think it is like horror also where it's like, oh, you were very clearly tied to like here's the script here's what we have it's like we love the ideas of like Blackbird and Flight and like if it was

you have to invoke these 12 words and if it was just like yeah you could just make a banger right that might have been a bit of an easier

yes challenge maybe once again the song is just good enough It's fine For the movie to work

It's fine Yeah You're getting all the themes But you wish it was a banger Yeah yeah Yeah you wish it were a banger The Oscar nomination This movie got

Was for the song That Rita Ora sings Yeah the credits song Grateful Right Which was written by Diane Warren And is pretty good I don't know

And then Rita Ora Started claiming That she was an Academy Award nominee And Diane Warren and is pretty good. I don't know. And then Rita Ora started claiming that she was an Academy Award nominee and Diane Warren was like, check the document. Yeah, I feel bad for Rita Ora because she's really annoying. I don't think it's her fault.

I can say that. Who won best? This was Selma. I did. Oh, glory. That's when Chris Pine cried. Ayo won best song. uh selma i did oh glory that's when chris i owe one best song she shared it with common john legend i won best song for a short that i was in uh with a few members of my ucb 201 class we all got of course of course and i forgot about that surprise win one of them wrote a short and I was in it and we won for that and a very deserved win

a huge win congratulations I'm a good singer and music is my my medium essentially this is fodder like trains are Ben's medium and we all have our medium and if the question was have you fucked in music have you fucked in a song for like trains or Ben's medium. Okay. And so we all have our medium. Yeah.

And if the question was, have you fucked in music? Have you fucked in a song? Have you ever left into a song and had sex? I would say, yeah, absolutely. Twice.

Absolutely. Yeah. All right. Okay. Box office game. I'm demanding that we play the box office game for November 14th, 2014. Um,

this movie, unfortunately opened number four. It will open on 1700 screens which was a weird sort of like you know half wide opening like relativity was the studio they didn't handle it very well in terms of this movie not getting a good release this was relativity who had been producing films for other studios they're like 18 month run of we're a distribution company we release films on our own yeah almost all of them bombed uh horribly yeah and then within a year of this movie coming out uh ryan cavanaugh was uh engulfed in like 20 lawsuits and yes everything had collapsed uh but it sort of opened to six million but number one griffin and io and ben what was the

final total did it make 20 or did it end up making oh i don't think so let's see uh it made 14 14 domestic boy a couple black hats um i think two black hats yeah number one is a a long-awaited i suppose sequel comedy sequel opening number one 36 million dollars um fun fact the director of this film his next film uh won best picture at the academy awards dumb and dumber 2 yep what a bizarre series of things to be true open to 36 open to 36 pretty good in fact just an appetizer for a best picture winner it's all really scary yeah that's the thing people were like very excited and they were like wait this might be a return to form for fairly for carrie and then it opened big and everyone's like now we're good and it didn't even make 100 did it no i think it made like 85 it did fine yeah no one was mad you know

but right kind of whatever but the joke is that two is spelled to because they are uh dumb and dumber and dumber and they're both they have range they have number two it is an animated film it's been out for two weeks it's made 110 million dollars hero six that's right my friend nailed it well done loved big hero six when i came out it's got the it's got scott as it he's a big old balloon not bmo big bmax bmax there you go yeah bmo is uh adventure time yes yes um all right uh yeah big hero six don't really remember it that well no big brother yeah and bimo um number three is the best movie of the decade no no do you know what it is and you disagree with this opinion most people do it's interstellar it's interstellar that's right which is a hell yeah movie not to be to be fair david disgusting

you ended you ended up ranking it as your number two you had called it the best movie of the decade for years and then in a split second decision you gave the edge to social network do i do like that social network there's a lot of good movies i think out of space movies interstellar is leagues ahead of gravity yes undoubtedly because i will say i'm a sociopath i watch both on planes nice and interstellar holds up on a plane or as gravity does yes it does i've watched interstellar on a plane many times one of my calm down movies that's weird on a plane many times. It's one of my calm down movies.

That's weird. All right, number five at the box office. Yeah, I'm a weird guy. I'm telling you, you're a random guy. You're a random and weird as hell.

I'll say that about you. Number five at the box office. One of the great movies of this year. 2014 was a good year. I was looking at my like my 10 from that year. Good year.

Um, they don't make them like this anymore. What genre? Gone Girl. Thriller. There you go. Gone Girl. I was good at this.

I was really bad last time though. Olivia was faster than me. I felt. You're nailing it this time. I'm really nervous. Thank you. You're nailing it. Gone Girl.

Which I loved. You know what's great? Gone Girl. Great movie. I what's great Gone Girl great movie I know this is the thing I was looking at my 10 and I was like I think Gone Girl was 11

that speaks to a good year yeah you should re-watch Gone Girl get it up there maybe I should but it was a good 10 I had a good 10 it's a good 10

I know it's a great year and yet Birdman won Best Picture anyway some other movies some things we don't have to talk about you feel me yeah no saint vincent fury nightcrawler's in there birdman saint vincent is is cantankerous bill murray takes after melissa mccarthy's son a very deserved best supporting actress nomination for Naomi Watts as a Russian exotic dancer.

Very deserved nomination. She didn't get that nomination. Nightcrawler, I'll say. I wanted more for Nightcrawler. Yep, Nightcrawler. I wanted more for Reen Russo. Renee Russo, Riz Ahmed, Jake Gyllenhaal. All three should have gotten acting nominations that year.

Everyone was so good at that. So good. What the hell's a girl got to do to get some retroactive Oscars going? You know what I'm saying? I thought Rene was going to get the nomination that year. It felt like she was on the track. And I thought the same.

You know me, I'm freaking running this for your consideration campaign, working my ass off in these streets. You, people don't know that that every single year you have self-financed a Renee Russo

for her consideration campaign just for whatever her biggest role was that year. Power card. I'm not gonna act like I don't. And so far, she's played Frigga, Thor's mom,

three times and has gotten three non-nominations. That's true. Rude. And you've spent hundreds of thousands far she's played Frigga Thor's mom three times and has gotten three non nominations rude and you've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to come back I'm in debt to people individually in a way that is

really really worrisome guys not good and if anybody wants to loan me anywhere from 50 to 700 000 i would really appreciate it i really would guys for real uh so is that what you want to plug this week yeah i'm pretty much uh broke as hell and huh you know oscar's coming up we gotta get started on renee's uh campaign so if anybody wants to wire tap some money,

I've been banned from Venmo. Wire taps only. My routing number is. No, I'll plug my freaking podcast with my best friend, Olivia Craighead. It's a great podcast. One of the best podcasts out there. Top tier.

Yeah, please listen to it so I can keep hanging out with Olivia. I love her so much. And, you know, she's just like doing a lot of great things with her life. She's really in demand. So I need her to hang out with me,

talk to her, get a Zoom call. You guys listen, review, say you like our friendship. You don't say that you really think that we should still keep being friends. That'd be really helpful for me and Olivia as well. No, but yeah,

I plug my stinking little podcast. Yeah. Technography. Great stinking little podcast. Yeah. Mechanography. Great podcast. Thank you. Yep. And you both were guests. We both were guests.

Yes. We each came on to talk about our number one male crush. Yes. Respectively. Respectively. Yep. And it's great conversations.

I don't even have to say, if you've listened to one episode of this podcast before, you can guess who I picked and who David picked. Yep. Okay. Everyone went quiet. Vin Diesel and who David picked. Yep. Okay. Everyone went quiet.

Vin Diesel and Colin Farrell. Renee Russo and Jake Gyllenhaal and Riz Ahmed. I was letting people answer and then I was giving them the official rolling. I was leaving the space for people to answer. We've had a great time. It's hot. Yes. It's time to call it.

We gotta go. It's hot and hungry. Just kidding. Thank you for coming on the show. Thanks for having me we gotta go it's hot and hungry thank you for coming on the show thanks for having me guys i hope we did okay on the show um you did amazing and the weed whacker never showed up again that's true yeah well he respects the the audio art form what can i say we thought we were gonna have a problem with the weed whacker across the street making all sorts of noise but the second he heard the word goo goo, he quieted down. He paid respect.

You have to. She deserves it. We have no choice but to stand. I made a wish. You made a wish? Wish him Ben. Strikes again. It's a new nickname, Wishful Ben.

That's a great place to end. Call it Griff. You and Griffin say I love you to each other. Love you, Griff. I tell him that all the time. Love you, David. Okay, and now both say it to Ben. Love you, Ben.

I love you, Ben. I love you guys. And I love me. I'll say this, Io. I appreciate you, Ben. I love you guys. And I love me. I'll say this, Io. I appreciate you pushing us. People should know full transparency. I end most interactions I have with Ben and David with I love you. Yeah, that's true.

So I'm very cute. When I say I love you to Ben, he says, I love you, kid. He says, I love you, kid. Damn, I love male friendship. Okay, the theme of today kid damn i love male friendship okay the theme of today's episode is actually male friendship and that's what i decided and above all else that's

that should be your number one takeaway from beyond the lights thank you all for listening please remember to rate review subscribe thanks to and for good for co-producing the show

rachel jacobs for editing help do it with love. Show some love on blankies.com slash reddit. Joe Bowen, Pat Reynolds for our work. Leigh Montgomery for our theme song.

Show him some love. Tell him you love him. And tune in next week for The Old Guard, a movie which I've already spoiled, I think, honks. But that will conclude our little Gina Prince-Blythewood miniseries. And as always... For now.

For now. For now. For now. When she makes a new movie, we'll come back to her. Hell yes. And as always I believe that black women

oh Christ can magically make their hair any single color thing want I had you just gotta end it

had to triple down you don't even have to let that one finish had to triple down oh boy had to triple down bye Griffin David Had to triple down. Bye. Griffin.

David. Ayo. Ben. You wish, Ben. Just kidding. I do wish. I wish all the time. He wishes constantly.

It's embarrassing. That's his best personality trait. Stars, fowls. Oh my god, wait a second. That's a new nickname. Ben. What, the wisher? The wishful Ben.

I'm sorry, but it's true. No, thank you. It's true. Wishful Ben. Okay, we're're gonna put this at the end of the episode as a bonus so people get the reveal later of the new nickname