Blank Check with Griffin & David - Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk with J.D. Amato

Episode Date: September 23, 2018

Blank it, thank it! J.D. Amato (The President Show) returns, in the last episode of our mini series devoted to the filmography of director Ang Lee, to discuss 2016’s high frame rate Iraq War drama, Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk. But what makes this movie so revolutionary? What is the evolution of frame rates in film? Who are the shortest and the tallest actors according to IMDB? Together they examine the history of cameras from film to digital, the BIG3 basketball league and never doing an episode on The Happytime Murders. This episode is sponsored by [Away](https://www.awaytravel.com/check) CODE: CHECK, [Brooklinen](https://www.brooklinen.com/) CODE: CHECK and HowStuffWorks’ [The Soundtrack Show](https://www.soundtrackpodcast.com/). For your very own “I Talked the Walk 2018” merch goto [TeePublic](https://www.teepublic.com/stores/blank-check)! On Thursday, look out for our bonus episode on the Ang Lee directed short film [“Chosen”](https://youtu.be/Z6azAviqGvs) part of the BMW film series The Hire and then next week will begin our new mini series on the films of Nancy Meyers! [David Sims’ Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk review on the Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/11/the-unreality-of-billy-lynns-long-halftime-walk/507449/)

your podcast billy no longer belongs to you. It's America's podcast now. Steve Martin. Everyone knows that line. Ring-ding-ding. As even more evil, Jerry Jones? Yeah. So who is Jerry Jones? He's the owner of the Dallas Cowboys.

Okay. He's a sort of hobgoblin-esque figure in the National Football League. His portrayal, and I have no context for Jerry Jones, obviously, and I'm digging straight into the deep end. Right. His portrayal, uh-huh, always felt like it was kind of Ted Turner inspired. But is Jerry Jones that type of guy, or is he combining- No, yeah.

He's doing more of a Ted Turner thing. That's a good point. In terms of his actual energy and everything, right? Jerry Jones is more like of a creepy southerner who's a maniac. I wish Steve Martin

had grown a mustache for this. What? Guys, I think we're talking the walk 2018. I think we're talking the walk 2018. We're here. Check. We made it. We're talking the Check. We made it.

We're talking the lock. Check. Here's blank. Let's do the intro, but just the words are all out of order. Don't actually do that. Baby. What were you going to say? I was going to say this.

I need to start right here. I've seen a lot of people talking online about how this is a bad movie. How this is. Starting with this. Jesus Christ. No, no, no bad movie how this is starting with this no no no no we are starting with this okay if you're tuning in right now and you're like i don't know if i'm listening to this episode oh sure you want to hook i'm going to convince you i think they may have already swiped delete just the site of billy lynn's long halftime walk but maybe this is what cinema is about we like blank checks not because they are guarantees

yes because they are blank i agree this is a blank check this is beyond a blank check this is i 100 was watching last night and said this is quietly one of the most insane cultural artifacts of all time and quietly because no one talks about it but we're here talking the walk and 2018 talking the walk 2018 sorry it's one of, David. It's one of the bigger bounces. It's one of the bigger bounces. It's quite a bounce. And that's fine. But that, we don't, that's okay.

No, JD, it's not okay. It's okay as long as we talk the walk. We're going to talk the walk. We like blank checks because sometimes they don't work out, but they're blank and you go for it. Hey, JD. If everything had to be a guarantee, we'd just get Marvel movies and Star Wars movies. JD, you're right. Blank it. Blank it. I'm JD

Amato, and I love movies. I'm Griffin Newman, and I love movies. I'm David Simms, and I'm eating a Wendy's spicy chicken sandwich. God, what a philistine. Ding dong! Oh, if Wendy's sponsored the show, that'd be great. Come on, Wendy's, get aboard.

This, of course, is Blank Check. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their career, and are granted a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they walk very slowly and traumatically, maybe. In high definition.

Yes. This is a miniseries on the films of Ang Lee. It's called Broke Pod Mountcast. And today we are talking about his most recent film. Yes, this is our season finale. Our miniseries finale. That's true. Yeah.

Or is it? Um, um, um. And it's called Billy Lynn's Halftime Walk uh billy lynn's halftime walk and it's long halftime walk billy lynn's long halftime walk do you still get caught up every time you say the title because you want to say billy flynn like chicago as i believe i've mentioned on this podcast i literally rsvp'd to the screening invitation or i like emailed someone at sony being like it is sony right yeah so yeah uh like i can't wait to see Billy Flynn's line. They did not acknowledge my mistake.

It's one of those things. Razzle dazzle. This movie's full of razzle dazzle. I, for a while, mistakenly kept calling it Billy Lynn's big halftime walk. I mean, that is also true. I had the same thing

with Inside Llewyn Davis. I think because of No Country for All, man, I want to keep calling it Inside Llewellyn Davis. I see. You know? It's like Llewellyn Davis. I see. It's like Llewellyn Moss. When there's another popular character, I mean no character is more popular than Billy Flynn.

He's on every pizzeria mural. Pizzeria mural? Every Hollywood souvenir store. We've lost the thread immediately. You know those pizzerias with classic murals and the icons of cinema. It's like Frank Sinatra and the Coliseum. Colby and McCall.

It's the guy who owns the... It's always like where there's a building. Yeah, it's the guy who owns the shop in front of the Leaning Tower of Pizza. Yes, right. Next to the Ghostbusters. And they're crossing the street. Billy Lynn.

He's got another movie coming out. It's not like this is Ang Lee's last movie ever. No, no. October 4th, 2019, we will cover Gemini Man. That's the point. That's not like this is Ang Lee's last movie ever. No. No. October 4th, 2019 we will cover Gemini Man. That's a point. That's a year from now.

That will be at that point. This is where he is his walk ends right now. That's where this mini series ends. It is.

We check back in with our friend Ang. Yeah. And that's the beauty of Ang Lee is that he keeps getting chances

to make interesting things. Because sometimes they're groundbreaking and may not manifest into a film that people love. Or that people get cash. Or that casual viewers take in. Sometimes he makes these things that are big swings that are Oscar winning films that sweep the nation. This is true. You also go, the films of his that have been commercial breakthroughs are the films that no one could have predicted would be commercial breakthroughs.

A hundred percent. Like, Brokeback Mountain making $80 million, Crouching Tiger making $120 million, Sense and Sensibility making $60 million. Those are insane numbers that sort of broke the expectations for what those types of movies could do at that time. All true, except that you're not mentioning the biggest one, which sort of. It's grossing as hell. Worldwide, certainly the biggest one.

Right, Life of Pi, which was his last movie. Where, right, if you said on paper, like, well, I'm going to make this kind of like CGI tiger, blue screen, epic based on a weird novel. With a lot of religious undertones. A novel that people thought was unfilmable, that like multiple directors had tried and failed. And like

they'd be like well you know maybe it'll be an awards player. And it's like no smash hit. Like genuine smash hit. And that's the most important

piece of context for this movie is that and I'm sure we'll have covered this in detail on the Life of Pi episode but the notion that post Life of Pi

Ang Lee is now for the first time seen as one of those filmmakers who breaks technical barriers. Because he never was. He was always a very classical filmmaker. Even something like Hulk, where he was pushing... And people shit on it. He was pushing a lot of stuff at the time.

It's just so weird. His filmography is so weird. And to me, I say it's seamus because once seamus is gone is when he starts running wild right but i think taking woodstock is the last seamus right correct and i think that's fantastic and i think because i think there's not that many filmmakers especially directors who have that are able to go not only am i going to pick interesting content or things that are not the beaten path, but also I'm going to try to take these technical leaps.

And sometimes they are huge achievements. I think all the times they're huge achievements. Sometimes it captures the fascination of the world at large. Sometimes people have a harder time taking it in. There's a big three. But he keeps doing it. There's a big three, and Ang Lee became the surprising unlikely fourth.

The big three, I would say, are Lucas, Cameron, and Jackson are the three guys who have really tried to push it. Right big three, I would say, are Lucas, Cameron, and Jackson. Are the three guys who have really tried to push it. Right? Yeah, I guess so. And created their own technology. Sure. With their butts. Come on. You're the professional film critic?

What the fuck is this? This is David Sims of the Atlantic over here. Two directors we've covered on the podcast I know that you like. Well, Cameron, I'm cool with, but like, I mean, Peter Jackson and Georgie Porgie. Are you going to try to back up?

No, no, I'm just saying, well, like, Peter Jackson's you know, his pushing, he's mostly pushed in bad directions. You know, his hobbits, his high frame rates, all that shit. I would argue... Oh boy, here we go. He's going to argue

something else now. I would argue you can't push him in a bad direction. by the way, as if you couldn't tell. J.D. Amato, friend of the show.

I'm J.D. Amato and I love movies. Blanket. Blanket. Now high five two of our three other people in the room. And also just to give

some context. Griffin's just kind of far away. David, I think you're in a good mood today. Yeah, I'm in a good mood. Not stressed out. I hit it immediately. Now I'm stressed out.

We heard a couple marimba bars. Because last time we recorded, I was in an extremely stressed out mood. And then I puked. And then you puked. Unrelated. I don't think my stress made you puke. The poutine. Yeah, poutine. And I know where it was from now. I think I figured it out.

You figured it out. Yeah. I don't want to rehash this. That was a nightmare. Have you noticed that JD was so stressed out. JD is sitting askew as part of sort of my recovery process from that episode. But I'm in a good mood. I don't know, Griffin, how are you feeling? I've been

going through some stuff. Your back's hurting. Yeah, I was on steroids for a mood. I don't know, Griffin, how are you feeling? I've been going through some stuff. Your back's hurting. Yeah, I was on steroids for a while, which, you know, my joke is that they made me really cut and swole, but then I saw JD the other day, and he was like, you look really skinny. I'm the only person that takes steroids

and somehow get more emaciated. I wouldn't say you look really skinny. You look like the same size to me. I feel like I look slightly less healthy than I usually do, and that's already a low bar. But I'll say this. I've seen you look unhealthy before. You know what I mean?

It happens to you sometimes. Yes. To me, it was not danger zone. It was just like... You were on the lower end of the space I know you live in. I carried your backpack for you. JD carried my backpack. It's more than that part of it.

So you guys, all right. Okay, so here, all right. Let's do this for two cents. No, no, I'm going to set the scene for the listeners. We have a lot to discuss. We're going to talk about Billy Lynn's long halftime walk in this episode. Which I'm so excited about. 200, 2016 war drama.

David has done, JD has done more research for this episode than anyone has ever done for anything ever. Correct. Before then, though, JD, our good friend, hung out with both of us

separately... In the week leading up to this episode. In the week leading up to this episode. Was that a coincidence or was that planned? Did you want that?

I think it was a coincidence. Well, here's what I think it was. I think it is a coincidence. Ours was a coincidence. Because ours was's what I think it was. I think it is a coincidence. Ours was a coincidence. Because ours was weeks in advance. We planned our thing a month in advance. Yeah. And I thought it would be,

Griffin and I hadn't really touched base after both of us were dealing with various... We were both making TV shows, which no one should ever do. And we were talking to each other during that process about how stressed out we were and overdue for a hangout catch up. I think I thought it would have been weird to

have our first hangout catch up be on podcast talking about Billy Lane. Because we're good friends and that's there's a lot of stuff that we've both gone through in terms of wanting to retire to the Andes Mountains. You're retiring to this studio my friend. Griffin hates it when I say that.

Look I can't get by on just a couple high altitude talks. But we went to see the Happy Time Murders, which I will say conclusively on this podcast, we will never do a bonus episode for. Thank you. And people calling for that in the subreddit are maniacs. To be clear, people actually have, multiple people have asked us for a Happy Time Murders bonus episode.

Its own thread and also coming up in other threads. Hey, guess what? When are the guys going to talk about it? Will never happen. Now, I want them solved, to be clear. I don't like the Happy Time Murders. They're sort of solved, but they don't really make sense. Here's all that I think needs to be

said about it. I do not believe it's a blank check film. It's not. Which is the most depressing thing about it. That's the thing that sucks about it the most. Isn't it one of those sort of like things where you're like, this might have been a blank check at some point, and now it's just this like mess. I think it definitely was at some point.

It's not quite a paycheck movie. It's not quite a blank check. I was saying I think it's more check than blank. Yeah, that's what JD said like five times now. But only once on Mike. Once on Mike. I would equate it to he had, he started handing out blank checks to other people in order to get the movie

made. He's like, if I give you one blank check, then can I, to get other people involved. It costs more than Billy Lynn's long halftime walk. That's insane. This isn't mumbling the murders 2018.

This is talking the walk 2018. Mumbling the murders. All right. And then JD and I went to a big three basketball final. The finals. The championships. Which depressingly I read got higher TV ratings than any WNBA game ever, which is like truly depressing.

This big three? Big three. So it's Ice Cube. So who was it? It was Jordan, V, Ewing, V, Abdul-Jabbar. Those are the big three. You're actually not far off. Really?

Well, Mirzan, V, Al-Ming. He's a little far off. V, Manute Ball. Who are the biggest three basketball players? Manute Ball is dead, sadly. Fuck. Is George Mirzan still alive? Yes, he is.

I think he is. Right? Yeah, yeah. You're just sort of, now you're naming the famously ridiculously tall basketball players. No, he's naming basketball players that are in movies. Which is why he would know them. But George Murasan and Manu Bowe

are the two 7'7 guys. The tallest men who ever played. For me to take note of an athlete they had to be abnormally large and be in talkies. Yeah. Here's what the Big 3 is. Shaq was my favorite movie star for a while.

Big three is a league that Ice Cube created that is when NBA... Wait, seriously? Yes. When NBA players retire, they can join the big three, which is all retired players. So we watched a game where like... Why is it called the big three? Because it's three on three basketball,

not five on five. So it's played like half court. It's kind of like streetball. They're only on one side of the court? The court is only one side. So what happens on that other side of the court? There's more seats. More seats? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're into this. Wait, so who is in the game? All right, so we were seeing the championship. Ice Cube created? This is a real blank check. Not only did Ice Cube create it, he opens the game with a concert. Like Ice Cube comes on to, there's a stage when you arrive,

right, JD? Yes. This is a blank check. This is him using all his cachet from his success in different mediums, right? Yeah, sure. And we sit down and we're like, what's with the stage?

And someone in front of us is like, Ice Cube's going to perform. And I was like, well, all right then, Ice Cube. The sound was terrible. Well, because here's the thing, It's not a huge budget lead. It's in the Barclays Center. We were in the Barclays Center. I was sitting as close as we were sitting

for Tarouk. He kept I mentioned it. He kept referencing Tarouk the final flight or whatever it's called. He'd nudge you and go that's where the Yes, he did that. He literally did that. The Ikron flew down. Yes, he did that. He literally did that. The Ikron was right there. Pretty much. He actually

did that. You tired there? No, I'm just I shouldn't even talk about it. On we? No, it's just I'm sorry. I had like a disappointing career setback this week. What happened? I lost the best of online betting category and good housekeeping.

I knew you were really looking forward to that. I'm sorry. You didn't get the trophy. Look, I'll admit, you know, the competition's been pretty light. No one's really been innovating the space, and I thought I could get this one in a walk. Because like, you know, sheets, they're always marked up. You know, most betting is marked up like 300%. It's a scam.

So, it... I got some dirty rags. I wrote my name on them, and I thought it would win. Griff linens? Griff linens. But then here comes Brooklinen. Oh, yeah. Oh, here's our strategy.

Let's make a really good product. Oh, you mean the fastest growing bedding brand in the world with 20,000 five-star reviews? Brooklinen... Let's do something that's respected by everyone. They like using it. And I'm like, okay, fine. I guess that's a way to go. So, yeah, instead of your strategy, which was basically just trying to win by default,

Brooklyn actually makes fancy hotel sheet level sheets for the average consumer. Right. I was like, hey, do you want to sleep in a way that feels like you're taking a nap under a bridge during a rainstorm? And then everyone else is like, no, we'd rather feel like fancy hotel sheets. You know, we like the idea of a husband and a wife who love each other and love linens and are making this product together rather than just a sad mid-level actor. And also they have a cool doc called Dukes. Yeah, and I don't have a friend. Yeah, they've got this small business approach. It's a husband and wife

team, so they're involved in every step of the manufacturing process, of the customer service process. They remember their customers by name, and they take out the middlemen, so they keep things personal. That's why it's so affordable. And for me, this is also very personal because they live in the city that never sleeps

New York City and so I feel like I'm no longer the hometown golden boy yeah I mean you did not deserve to win I didn't I have Brooklyn and Sheets they're very good and then you gave me your sheets and I had to burn them in the backyard yeah yeah yeah and like a ghost came out of them

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promo code check that's nice too because my my sheets are high risk it's nice to them to offer a risk-free guarantee that there won't be any oil sheets are high risk yeah hey guys what's i feel like these wet dirty sheets all over the studio. Now you know who I sold my remaining supplies to. Don't put those near an open flame because you'll go up with them. Damn. Get some Brooklyn ends. Promo code check.

Did he show you where Ben sniffed out the fart? No, but I did look by it and think about it. I know that our producer Ben was a fart detective that night. He was a fart detective. He detected a fart. Po was a fart detective that night. He was a fart detective. He detected a fart. Poet laureate. Meat lover. He was an old person.

And I just could tell by the stank. That was like an old person fart. Took him up any wet hat. We haven't had the names in a while. Do the names. Wish him a hello fennel. Sure. Yeah.

Hello fennel. He's not Professor Crispy. No. He is a fuckmaster. Well, let's not go there. He's graduated certain titles over the course of different

miniseries such as Kylo Ben, Bruce or Ben Kenobi, Ben Night Shyamalan, Ben Say Benny Thing, dot, dot, dot, Ailey Ben's with a dollar sign, Warahaz,

Purdue or Bane, Ben 19, The Fennel Maker Benglish Sure Mr. Bencredible Robohaz Robohaz right

And now Do you have an English one? Yeah Oh you do I've been seeing what people have been suggesting Yeah and there's a I saw one that I really liked

I'm curious if you chose it Eat Drink Ben Hosler That's the one that I saw that I loved Fair enough I remember there being one other that I saw that I loved. Fair enough. I remember there being one other that I liked, but I can't remember what it was. It doesn't matter.

All right, so who did you see at the big three, guys? All right, so the big three. Well, we saw Ice Cube, LL Cool J as well. Is he financially involved, or was he just there to hang out? I don't know. At one point— He bought a ticket. I mean, he was financially involved in that, so that's true. Can I just paint the picture?

I think he was just hanging out. Also, I pointed out there, LL Cool J is an interesting person. He's been in both Deep Lucy and Toys. Yeah. Two of your faves? Yeah, this guy's in good movies. Toys, which if we ever did a JD's choice where you could pick any movie you wanted,

it would be Toys. Yes. There was one point at which Ice Cube was performing. We couldn't really hear him because the acoustics were horrible. Because it was set up for basketball, not for an Ice Cube concert. And performing in the round in Barclays without proper sound design.

Not going to go well. And LL Cool J has walked to the stage. He's right there. No one else is doing this. He has two cell phones, one in each hand. And he's filming Ice Cube with both cell phones. Is it like a Sonic and Knuckles thing? If you put them together, it's better is it like a Sonic and Knuckles thing where if you put them together, it's better?

Sonic and Knuckles thing. Imagine if you're holding two phones next to each other and filming something. You would just get the same video twice. He's doing a story on Snap. He's doing a story on Insta. That is very possible. I bet that's what he was doing. O'Shea Jackson Jr.

was also there. Oh, he's good. He is. I know we have like four and a half hours of Lintop. He got dafted up by Amari Sotomayor. And I don't want to keep on sidebarring here. But just because this is one of our, we're now in the zone again of doing episodes within a month of their release.

Yeah. Rob Letterman, director of Detective Pikachu, upcoming episode on this show. It's essential. David's most anticipated movie of all time of Detective Pikachu upcoming episode on this show. It's essential. David's most anticipated movie of all time, Detective Pikachu. Yeah. I love detective movies.

I love Pikachu. Yes. I have to see this movie. I'm hoping Detective Pikachu is what Happy Time Murder should have been. Just a hard-boiled noir. Pretty sure it will be. A bare-knuckle noir.

But he, in an interview, said that the Pokemon are going to be photorealistic. They're making them look like actual animals. Oh my god. Pokemon are not real animals. They're fake. But it sounds like the design aesthetic for this movie is to make them look like real animals existing in our world.

So my question now, moving laterally because of the thing you just said, because I've been debating this as well, is that the approach they're going to take with the fucking Sonic the Hedgehog movie? Maybe. Just a weird Sonic that has stubble and wrinkles. But is Sonic the Hedgehog going to be like Knuckles and Tails and Sonic

all looking like roadside creatures? Or is it going to be like the Smurfs where it's just like, what the fuck is this thing? This doesn't exist in our universe. I don't know. Hopefully it's like the Polar Express. I mean, Sonic doesn't look like a hedgehog.

Sonic is a creature, and then he has some sort of cool spikes, and that's like him. But he doesn't look like a hedgehog. He's the wrong color for a hedgehog. But the premise of the movie is James Marsden plays a traffic cop, like a roadside speeding cop. That's the premise of Sonic the Hedgehog? That's not the premise, but the human step is that's how he meets

Sonic. So you have to imagine in a real world environment, he's there with his speeding gun, and this blue thing flashes by, and I wonder, is it just going to be a CGI creature with red sneakers and the cool hair, or are they going to make a photorealistic blue hedgehog who's like, hey man!

Jesus Christ. My pitch, if you make a photorealistic blue hedgehog who's like, hey, man. Jesus Christ. My pitch, if you make a movie based on a video game, John Leguizamo must be the star of it. I mean, he'd be a great Sonic. No, it's Ben Schwartz. He would have been a great Sonic. I mean, Jim Carrey is playing Dr. Robotnik. I'm playing Knuckles. I should mention that.

I buried the lead a little. I'm playing Knuckles. Ben's playing Tails. Tails is my favorite. JD's playing Big the Cat. I'm playing...uckles. I should mention that. I buried the lead a little. I'm playing Knuckles. Ben's playing Tails. JD's playing Big the Cat. I'm playing... Dr. Robotnik. No, Jim Carrey is playing Dr. Robotnik. Which, I mean...

I'm playing the owner of the Casino Night Zone. Do you think that Jim Broadbent's agent has just been banging his head against the wall for six straight weeks on the fact they missed Robotnik? But do you think Broadbent was like, oh, no, like, I won't. Robotnik, I wish I could do him now. Robotnik.

But that even sounds like Dr. Robotnik. Like, that's how I imagine Dr. Robotnik should talk. What's his deal? He wants to turn the animals into robots? He's the Eggman. This is David's observational stand-up comedy. doctor he wants to turn the animals into robots that's his thing man this is this is observational stand-up comedy what's the deal with dr robotnik can he walk or does he have to be in a spaceship it's not clear it's so weird

what's he have against these animals video games are so weird now they try and like have them you know make sense. There's a little more thought into it. Mario, it's just like, oh, the dinosaur kidnapped a lady. Why? He kidnapped her. Why'd he do it?

He just did. What if they announced it? He's a doctor. He makes robots. And the hedgehog doesn't like him. No, doesn't like him at all. Well, so much of game like quote-unquote plot lines were dictated by like okay so what can we do in technology right right could we actually visually render right right like the designs right came first um what if indiana jones is our billy lynn podcast no no come on come on you're right let's

talk the walk let's's talk the walk. Well, I just want to tell you that we saw the power win the big three championship. Who's the power? That's the name of the team. Now, here's the weirdest part. Oh, we got, well, Big Baby Davis is sort of their star. Birdman. Gladys. These are kind of like NBA veterans, like not quite stars.

That's not true. One of these won best picture. One of these won best picture. One of these won best picture? Yeah, Birdman. That's true, Birdman. Yeah, Chris Anderson. Yeah, he won best picture. If he had won best picture, I'd have been happier with that choice.

But the real game of the night, I don't know. Blankies right now are screaming because I'm going to get into the most. The final was a little boring. I'm going to get into the most film nerd thing you've ever had in this podcast. Yeah, he's going to do it. So let us revel in the big three for just a moment. Yeah. The game of the night, though.

Who's the third guy on the team? On power? Yeah. I don't even know. Yeah. Well, you know, they have six guys per team. Quentin Richardson, that was the third big guy. Was it Gattino Mobley?

Gattino Mobley was on that team. Corey Maggette. Right. Corey Maggette. Never been heard of these guys. Not the biggest basket nut in the world. Are you? Yeah.

You're such a basket nut. The weirdest part is that their opponent was called Three's Company. Most of the teams have a three pun in their name. Because Tommy Suzanne Summers was on the team. And their logo. Norman Fell. They're called Three's Company. Their logo is a factory. I don't know Company. Their logo is a factory?

I don't know why. It's a company? It should have been corporate offices more, right? But it's so weird. Yeah, okay. Who's on the team? But the game of the night. You're not going to know anyone on Three's Company.

What, none of them were in Space Show? I'm trying to think. This is disgusting. I know all 10 basketball players who have been in movies since 1991. Nate Robinson was there at the big three game. What was Nate Robinson's book?

He's in Uncle Drew. He plays the guy in the wheelchair. Oh, also, well, wait a minute. I was going to say, what? What's Laura Dern? Oh, Baron Davis.

Baron Davis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is this who Laura Dern's dating, Baron Davis. Baron Davis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is this who Laura Dern is? Yeah. Oh, baby. But anyways, the game of the night was the battle for third place.

Right, the third place playoff between the three-headed monsters and Tri-State. Tri-State. It really just felt in the reach of being like, what's another three thing? Tri-State?

Okay. Okay. But it was so much fun and the game winning shot was had by Mahmoud Abdul Raouf who was previously known as Chris Jackson

NBA he is currently 50 years old and is still lighting guys up it was so much fun yes it was awesome

he has gray hair it is crazy it was cool JD and I hung out we saw the big three championship we saw Ice Cube perform

yeah we saw Happy Time Murders which was really good in terms of like breathing exercises It was cool. JD and I hung out. We saw the Big 3 Championship. We saw Ice Cube perform. We saw Happy Time Murders, which was really good in terms of breathing exercises because we were sighing constantly. Our oxygen intake was very regulated throughout the movie.

It was very much like David and I, our friendship, we'd go and see a Big 3 game or try to be players. Our friendship is we'd go and see Happy Time Murders.

Yeah, that's fair. I think our friendship is also that we go and see Happy Time Murders. Yeah, that's fair. I think our friendship is also that we'd go see Happy Time Murders, but we'd probably go see something else. Yeah, but I'll say, there is, and it's not exclusively, but the majority of movies that you and I have seen together are movies where it's like,

we need to see this together so that we can have the very specific, incredibly long discussion afterwards. Yeah, monogamina. Right. And Billy Lynn falls into this. Yes. Where we were overdue to hang out and see a movie and I said, do you want to see Billy Lynn's long halftime walk? And you said, I don't know what that is. Tell me what it is. And I told you about the technology

and you were like, that sounds weird. And I was like, yeah, Ang Lee. And you were like, wait, Ang Lee directed this? Which speaks to how much this movie was kind of like ignored and shrugged off. 100%. And I said to you, he's broken all these technological barriers. The movie's gotten trashed. They only set up five screens, like not even five theaters,

but there were five screens in the entire planet that were capable of projecting the movie in the way he intended. And at the point that I suggested we go see it, it was down to two. Yes, and it was... It was now the only screen in North America that was playing. There was only ever one screen. Oh no there were two.

LA was playing it for a week. Because the Arclight Hollywood and AMC Lincoln Square could handle it. Which is where we saw it. And on a smaller screen at the Lincoln Square. And there were also

Well you can't do this on a big screen. Yeah. In fact they have to get rid of the first like five rows of the theater because the technology doesn't work.

Yeah. I'm going to get so into it. What were you going to say? Also screens in taipei bang baijing and shanghai yes are the five places on earth it only played in two continents projected in uh 120 frames per second yes yes and i know that i'm going to sound like um a one trick pony with what i appreciate in films but something that i want to set the stage for what I think is amazing about this film is we sat down in that theater.

It was half full maybe. Yeah, we saw like a late like a Sunday night 10pm showing or something weird like that. But still, there wasn't many people in it. Yeah. The moment the first shot of this movie came on screen. Yeah. The reaction of the audience was...

JD explains a theater reaction. But this is what it's about. Okay, it was what? Shot comes on. Yeah. People have reactions like, oof. And then there's giggles. Yeah.

Oh, no. And light applause. Yeah. Okay. Because people are like, what am I experiencing with my eyes right now? What's the first shot of the movie to you? First shot to him reaching to grab his cell phone from his nightstand table? It's a nightstand.

Which is like 3D 120 frames per second was the most aggressive thing we'd ever seen. Like it felt like having your personal space violated. I'll say this to the makeup. JD literally has four pages of typed notes stapled together with also handwritten addendums on it. So there's one quote that I want to start with from a Sony released this like 40 page PDF. I just want to say this one thing before you get to the quote.

Because the other thing I found interesting about the Makeup Hour Theater, we saw it in, and David, you saw it at the New York Film Festival. I saw it at the New York Film Festival. It opened the New York Film Festival. I saw it at a press screening, not at like the premiere.

Right. Attempting to project it in the perfect format and it was a little bit off. You still saw it at the New York Film Festival. It opened the New York Film Festival. I saw it at a press screening, not at the premiere. Right. Attempting to project it in the perfect format, and it was a little bit off. You still saw it more closer to his vision. It certainly looked crazy to me, yeah. But it is this insane thing, as we're talking about this movie, is very few people in the world got to ever see it the way he intended, and on home video, it will never be replicated in the same way. No.

It was released a month later, and i saw it again at the sony screening room in 2d regular because i remember you saw him where it told me like it's not very good and i said is there any chance the technology's so distracting that you didn't realize the movie was great because i so badly wanted this right right right well you were all in on the vin diesel of it all and the steve martin of it all. If you go like Griffin, pick your three actors you want to be rehabilitated by Ang Lee. Reclaimed as serious character actors. It was Steve Martin,

Vin Diesel, and I even felt Kristen Stewart's reputation was less sterling than it is now. She was at the beginning of her sort of reclamation project. But I was amped by it. I thought it was a great story for a movie. i got excited when i read the synopsis and all of that um but the theater we saw it in i think the makeup seemed

to be you know half full half like chinese college students yes which you realize like oh he really is sort of an important important cultural figure yeah as just like the most prominent, you know, Asian American artist in this medium at the very least. This movie made almost all of its money in China. Right, right. So it was a lot of like native Chinese speaking college students or 20 somethings. And then the other half of the theater

was like people who worked in film. Like I recognized a lot of people like, oh, wasn't that guy like a sound guy on like a college humor shoot I did five years ago? Packed together people who were just talking about on-set experiences. Because I was eavesdropping, and the whole makeup was just

Chinese college students who were like, this guy's important, we have to support him, and film crew people who were like, I need to see what the fuck this is. Just to break it down, this movie made $23.7 million in China, $3.2 million in Taiwan and $1.7 million in the United States. And was released wide here.

It was. Not super wide, but wide. $40 million project. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the other thing is that after I saw it, I think I went on a tirade of just any person that was a film fanatic. Yes.

I was like. Check it out. You have to just go you made at least 10 people go see it because people would come back to me and be like

so JD made me see Billy Lynn will anyone ever see it in that again I have because it's such an ignored movie like I guess

maybe one day but like who's going to go to the fucking effort of setting up the projection that's the thing because you even go

like okay let's say like the museum a moving image. Right, but they can't do it. Maybe one day they'll be able to, I don't know, you know. But it's literally like you would convert your entire theater

for one movie. Right. It's not worth the conversion cost. Right. Yeah, so I believe, so here's what the context of all the stuff that I want to talk about is,

is that this film uses technology. So basically, I don't think we've said it yet. It's 120 frames per second. Correct. 4K stereoscopic. So it's 3D. Right.

Okay. Films are usually shot in 24 frames per second. I'm going to get all into it. I know you are. But like, here's the pitch that I always say. I'm sure people mostly know that. 24 is what people are used to.

Peter Jackson released the first Hobbit in 48, and people went, fuck this too much. That's what I always say. I go, when he released the Hobbit in 48 frames, people were like, this is crazy. This is 120 frames. Ang Lee went 2.5 times more than what Peter Jackson had done, which was two times more than what we were used to, and people hated that. And he did it for a movie that's mostly just set in the bleachers at a stadium a drama about a traumatized guy who's introverted

no Ben's been going through his own halftime walk yes we're not even at halftime yet here's what I want to say though I think it's okay to not watch this movie unless you're able to see it in 120 frames

per second 4k 3d. Now, what if you can watch like the 4k disc? I think no. Okay. Wow. I think no. I,

I got the combo pack, which is, I got the combo back. I paid like $20 for this. I got it on. I know what I got on sale. I've been, I've been watching the prices.

I've been writing the prices for months. I was hoping it would be on writing the, cause I was, it's, that's one of those things where Amazon's like, you want that? You're going to have to pay. Like, no one wants that.

You know what I mean? It's not like... Amazon did a sale where it was like, if you bought three 4K UHD movies, they were each like $15. Still a lot, though. Yeah, but I got Furious 7 and King Kong. King Kong?

I love King Kong, baby. The Jackson King Kong?son yeah get ready for that app yeah that's gonna be a good app yeah that's gonna be a good app maybe i'll turn around which isn't me saying that we have this on the books no but like whenever we do it constantly pushing whenever we do it no no i mean to me that watch out for the hobbit uh the third hobbit app because that's when david's gonna i'm locked and loaded for that one baby that movie's good yeah good. Yeah. See, this is why we got to do Jackson because it's a combination of every type of miniseries we've done so far. It goes into the chaos of the Star Wars. We'll do him one day.

As a personality, he's... He will be your Matrix Reloaded. My problem with him is, it's not that good, but yeah. As a personality, Jackson's not that interesting. He's like a sort of an avuncular guy. You know what I mean? Sure, but I mean, his career starts out with what is clearly now the first best

puppet fucking movie of all time. Definitively. I grew up in the horror movie section of my local video store Video Adventure and boy oh boy did we love Peter Jackson back in the day before he was the Peter Jackson of now.

He was known for making the I mean The weirdest most transgressive Dead Alive is the goriest most violent film

of all time. Quite funny though. I mean hilarious and bizarre and when you're you know 12 and you want to have

jaw dropping insane gore it's interesting. I don't think I could sit through it now just as an adult but boy oh boy

is that movie wild. Just to say this, though, because presuming that Blinkies have watched this movie in preparation for this episode, the ways it is available to watch now are on this comic pack, 4K, UHD, 60 frames per second. So you're still only getting half of what you saw in theater, but it's closer to the experience

of what the high frame rate looks like. It looks weird. That's 2D. Then there is a normal frame rate 1080p 3D Blu-ray. Which is what you watch, right? Which is what I watched in preparation for this, and then there is just the standard high def 2K 24 frames

per second, which if you're watching it on any streaming platform, if you're buying it, if you're renting it, that's probably what you're seeing. There's the Ben experience. It might be setting you up if it're buying it, if you're renting it, that's probably what you're seeing. Okay, so I have a question. There's the Ben experience. It might be setting you up. Yes. It might be the best way to watch this.

It's too soon, but I don't know what anything you just said. Oh, boy, oh, boy. Am I going to get into it? I have no idea what any of that is. So here's what's going to happen. You just invited a vampire inside your home. Here we go. I'm so jazzed. Here what here's what's gonna happen

god i love talking about movies so much like this stuff gets me so jazzed blanket thank it um i i want to talk about how cameras work and i want to explain the brass tacks of it because there's a lot of people like myself, even, even coming through film school where you understand the ideas of it, but there are certain words and phrases that are thrown around and you sort of feel embarrassed to admit you don't know what they are. And sometimes when you look that stuff up, it's sort of circular because it all leans on each other. So what I want to do is I want to explain how cameras work. And I want you guys to sort of be the audience surrogates to keep me to making it understandable.

You're saying it's the thing where you know how to use a word, but you don't know how to define it? Yes, or it's the kind of thing that there might be one word that you don't know. And I might be saying this, and people listening will be like, I know all of this, but just let's refresh ourselves, because when we get into the technology of it, what they did was so advanced that you need to have this base knowledge

to really understand it. And I promise there's no aspect of this that's just like, I just want to ramble with this stuff. I think this is legitimately important. Talk about it. So first I want to start with, so Sony released this 40-page PDF,

which is fascinating to read, about the making of Billy Lynn. There's two amazing quotes in the whole thing because Ang Lee and John Toll, John Toll's cinematographer that did this, from the get go. One of the best living cinematographers. Famous Oscar winning

two time, back to back actually Oscar winning. What did he win for Braveheart? Braveheart is the second. And what was the first one? Legends of the Fall. A gorgeous movie. Not a good movie but a gorgeous movie. Shot with Thin Red Lime which is one of the most beautiful looking movies of all time. Shot with Thin Red Line, which is an incredible looking movie. Shot Tropic Thunder because Ben Stiller wanted Tropic Thunder to look like Thin Red Line.

He has a weird career because it's that, yeah, it's Tropic Thunder, but like Gone Baby Gone. Like, I feel like people often hire him when they're like, you know, like a Ben Affleck where he's like, I know you're a good cinematographer, so just make my first movie look beautiful. He shot Cloud Atlas. Right. He shot Iron Cloud Atlas. Right. He shot Iron Man 3. Right. He shot Jupiter Ascending.

And what's the most important movie that he ever shot? Actually, no, there's two. One we've already covered, and one we're about to. One we've already covered, one we're about to? One of them is my least favorite film we've ever covered. Elizabethtown?

Correct. And one we are about to cover. Did he shoot in Nancy? He did. We're about to cover it. Not The Parent Trap. We're about to cover it. It's complicated? Correct. You're talking the actual timeline of when we're recording.

Sure. And John Toll, he had no experience shooting 3D before this. That's interesting. He shot digital before, right? Yes, because like Iron Man 3, I'm sure that was this. That's interesting. He shot digital before, right? Yes. Because like Iron Man 3, I'm sure that was digital, like things like that. And so anyways,

there's this 40-page PDF that's about the making of this whole thing that is fascinating to read and it gets so deep into the technical side of things. But there's these two quotes in it that I think are fascinating. Right, because his other 3D movies

were all post-converted. Yes. He wasn't involved at all on set in terms of thinking stereotypically. Yes. And I'm trying to think of, was Cloud at? Jupiter Ascending and Iron Man 3 both terms of thinking stereotypically. Yes, and I'm trying to think of, was Cloud at? Jupiter Ascending and Iron Man 3

both were like post-converted. Yes, I don't think any of them were shot stereotypically, which I'll explain why that's such a crazy process. But there's two quotes that I think are apropos to this whole thing. Number one, rather than try to make digital look like the last 100 years of film, why don't we start exploring and try to

find the aesthetic and look of the digital age? And then in trying to describe the look and feel of this, he says, there's no need to discuss it. It can't be described in words. It's not a verbal experience. You can see it whether you like it or not. It functions at a different level than movies you're used to seeing.

And that's something I want to say. That's true. It's true. Empirically true. We're going to try to explain it here. It's going to be almost impossible for you to truly understand what it's like. It's true. Empirically true. We're going to try to explain it here. It's going to be almost impossible for you to truly understand what it's like. It's going to be like us telling you

like a ghost story. Because truly. It's hard to believe if you haven't seen it yourself. They would have these meetings while they shot the film where they would shoot dailies. Also, they couldn't even screen the dailies

at 120 frames per second. Sure. Which I'll explain what all that means in a second. They had to do it at 60 frames a second and all the that the heads of departments would sit there and watch it and then angley described that like you'd literally see like the face their faces sink because they would be like this is changing the entire language of film and what we know about our jobs doesn't make sense anymore and we have to relearn it it's like both angley and john toller like it was like going back to film school the language of film sense anymore and we have to relearn it. So like both Ang Lee and John Toll are like, it was like going back to film school.

The language of film totally changed and we were out there trying to figure out how this worked. And they even admit some of the stuff was not successful or some of the stuff was out of their control. And boy, oh boy, it was an interesting thing. But they had to learn on the fly

how to do all this stuff. I mean, that's the most interesting thing about this movie is you see guys rewriting the language of filmmaking in a way that kind of fucks with every other aspect of filmmaking that had been perfected up until that

point. And the experience of it. It makes performances worse. It makes costumes worse. They couldn't use makeup. I'd argue it doesn't make them worse as much as it shows them for what they truly are. Sure. We'll talk about it.

Which is... Yes. But also, here are some questions I have from what I vaguely remember. Like, the camera's very large, right? Yes. It makes a lot of noise, right?

Yes. So you can't hear what you're saying. Well, let me... Or actors, like, struggle to hear what they were saying. And you can't do a lot of takes because you just like use up film really fast.

Three takes most. No, it's so difficult with the lighting and the focus and everything to do multiple takes. I'm just, these are all, I remember hearing that these were hindrances in the filmmaking process. 100%.

And I want to address all of those. Here, Ben, I'm going to give you this first. Just hold on to this for a second. What the fuck is going on? He just handed Ben an envelope? Just hold on. Let me just say for anyone who hasn't watched the movie and is just listening to this episode because

they're a JD fan, right? Sure. And they know what this episode's going to entail. Before we get into the technical nitty gritty of this, I want to just explain in a one sentence way what this technology is applied to. This movie is about a Bravo squadron, right? A group of heroes in the Iraq war in 2003.

Correct. It's 2004. The film was set in 2004. Okay. Right. Early in the Iraq war. They're fighting in 2003. This is Super Bowl 2004.

It's not the Super Bowl. Oh, it's not? It's a Thanksgiving game. Yes. Interesting. Because it's based on a Super Bowl performance. This is obviously fictionalized. Kind of. This is based on it.

Didn't Destiny Child actually do the Super Bowl in 2004? I don't think so. No, they weren't big enough for that. Let's look up who did, performed at Super Bowl 38, which was, of course, between the Carolina Panthers and the New England Patriots.

Did you do that from memory? No. Beyonce sang the national anthem but the halftime show is I believe the notorious halftime show where Janet Jackson's wrist is exposed by Justin Timberlake.

Yes. So it's like a weird medley where like Jessica Simpson did something and they did something you know like so whatever. Anyway. And he was going to have us naked by the end of the song. The point being, it's a big football game.

It's a big football game. This is just the Thanksgiving game in Dallas. Like, yeah, a big football game. It's going to have a halftime show. Squadron's gone viral for their heroism through a cell phone video. And now they're being brought out at the halftime show in this sort of like tribute to patriotism and our wartime heroes. And the lead character, Billy Billy Lynn is the super introverted

internalized dude who's quietly sort of crumbling from PTSD in this super overwhelming set of circumstances. It takes place all over this one day where they're about to be feted and the next morning they were going to be redeployed. It basically takes place over like four hours.

So it's this one day where they're treated like heroes before they're just going to be sent back into the ship. They're going to be basically place over like four hours right and right so it's this one day where they're treated like heroes before they're just going to be sent back into the they're going to be sent back and there is there are subplots running such as like chris tucker plays a pr person who's trying to sell their story and make them some money right kristin stewart plays billy's sister who's trying to convince him not to return to war she's the reason he went he got in the first place but she's now the anti-war figure. And then you also have Vinnie Diesel Vin Diesel plays the staff sergeant.

So you know this is a supporting role for him. It's not a Vin Diesel film. It's him. He's a company player. Who is the person from their squad that they lost in combat so they're mourning him. This is all based on a novel written by Ben Fountain in 2012 and Ben Fountain in 2012.

And Ben Fountain is like, he's not, it was his first novel. He's like a short story writer, I guess. And it was a well-regarded novel, but it's not like a bestseller. It's an ascetically satirical novel that was well-regarded. The movie was written by James Seamus' assistant, who was an associate producer on Life of Pi. That's just stuff you need to know. Sure. But that's a big thing is the novel is

mostly his internal monologue and is about the contrast between what Billy Lynn's seeing around him and his commentary on how much bullshit is around him. It's him sort of calling out the hypocrisy of the entire situation. It's a movie about the hypocrisy of the Iraq war. The movie is now a kid who barely speaks.

And the reason Joe Alwyn, right out of drama school, Taylor Swift's boyfriend now. I graduated two days earlier. Right. And then it's got

Garrett Hedlund, Steve Martin, Vin Diesel, Kristen Stewart, Chris Tucker. Wildcast. Wildcast. So that's the story

that he applied all this state-of-the-art technology to. And the idea of that being that there's that, a lot of war veterans will talk about that hyper-real feeling of coming back

and feeling both removed and too present in their environment. And so this technology that definitely creates that feeling, the thought was that could be an interesting way to reflect this. It is being artistically deployed. It's not just like,

well, let's try it. There is a thematic purpose to the high frame rate. But also after Life of Pi, he got so interested in continuing to push boundaries, he wanted to make this, what is it, Muhammad Ali? Yes. The Pharrell and Manuela movie. George Foreman movie.

Which I believe he still sort of has on the back burner. They shot test footage for that. Right. And that was when he started experimenting with all this because he thought that upping the frame rate

would help shooting boxing not having to go in slow motion actually having the impact of the punches in real time you know being able to show it in a way

that was never actually able to be captured on camera before and that movie just kept on getting slowed down and he decided to apply a lot of those

sort of breakthroughs he'd been working on to this film. Yeah. Yes. Ang Lee has a whole theory that he believes that action is shot

in slow motion because frame rates are not capable of actually portraying action. Yes. Now, I just know that like a thing I'd heard people work on this movie say

is that the goal was to make the movie feel like you're having a panic attack. Right. And I like that idea. And I will say, as someone who has the weird crispness of everything,

all three of us, all four of us in this room have had our battles with anxiety and weird mental fogginess and all that sort of stuff. I know when I'm in an insane state of anxiety, this is kind of how the world looks to me. It's that insane thing where I feel super overstimulated, movement feels really overwhelming, and I can't stop focusing

on everything all the time. And so to a certain degree, on paper, you're like, this sounds unbelievable. But it's also really fascinating that the movie doesn't feel very subjective in a way where you're like, this is how things look to him. It's like you're watching

him in his environment and watching him is overwhelming. Let's get into the tech of it because i truly the tech of it i truly believe you don't have to do any more preambles i truly believe it will help contextualize no more preambles okay so how much do you guys know about how cameras work and all this stuff no just go for it fair amount question pitiful next to you sure sure right got it just no i just want i yeah so assume little because you know we're talking to our listeners as well got it Paramount, but pitiful next to you. Sure, sure. Right. Got it. Just talk. No, I just want, I, so. Assume little, because, you know, we're talking to our listeners as well. Got it.

Not that they don't know anything. But I want to try to explain this in a clear way, so feel free to ask questions. Manuel Lebesgue listens to every episode. He does. That's why I have all these notes that's trying to organize the best way to describe it, because it's a little complicated. It just folds in on itself. Okay, so, first, the way you think about all cameras is you're trying to control light. And there's three big questions that you are trying to determine is how long, so you got film,

right? We're trying to figure out how long light hits our film, which light hits our film, and how much of that light hits our film. Those are the three elements that cameras are trying to control. So starting with film, we know film, it's piece of plastic that has gelatin and chemicals on it. Silver halide is the chemical. The idea is that this is a chemical that when light hits it, it reacts. An interesting property of it is that you can have chemical that is more or less sensitive to light.

The more sensitive to light it is, the grainier the chemical is going to be. And we measure that through a term called ISO or ASA. ISO is the term we use. So basically, if a film is really sensitive to light, it'll have a high ISO. If it's not that sensitive to light, it'll have a low ISO. The way ISOs work is like you have 100, 200, 400, 800. 200 ISO film is twice as sensitive as 100 ISO film. 400 ISO film, twice, that's the idea of it. That's when people talk about high speed film stock.

And that's also why, that has sort of been the biggest sort of forward track of film technology is making film stock more and more reactive to less and less light. So you don't have to make everything as blandly and broadly lit. And shine a bunch of lights and everything. Right now, there's a lot of people that are like,

yes, but isn't everything digital now? Yes, but I'm going to explain film because how digital works is them translating the terms of film and the concept of film to digital. So start with that. So that's what ISO is. That's sensitivity. You have an ISO rating of stuff. Okay.

So this is like a symphony orchestra you're setting up. So that's what ISO is. That's sensitivity. You have an ISO rating of stuff. Okay. So. This is like a symphony orchestra you're setting up. Like that's your violin player, like warming up in the corner. It all comes into play in this movie. Oh yeah. Okay. So how long light hits our film?

Okay. That's an important aspect of all of this. So we all know 24 frames per second is how movies work for the most part. That is you're taking 24 pictures a second. And the way the film works is that you have an individual cell in your camera. You cover up a cell of it, a cell of this thing. You uncover it to expose it to light, and then you cover it back up,

and you cover it back up. Then you move the film to the next frame. You uncover it. You cover it back up. 24 frames a second is you're doing that 24 times. That's sort of what the clicking noise is, is that frame moving. So you would think that means that

a 24 frames a second film, each film is being exposed for a 24th of a second. That's not correct though. Because- Della Steins. Because as you can imagine, for part of that time, you're covering up the film to move it to the next frame.

Because if you're just moving it, it's going to smear. Like when you do a long exposure, you know those photos where it's like someone holding a flashlight and moving it, and it's like they're able to write with light in the sky? Right, right, right. That's what would happen if you're moving the film without covering it up. So you cover it up with something that's called a shutter. And a shutter, think of like a record, a spinning record, okay? Or like a pizza, okay?

Something round. Something round. It spins, okay? And you take pizza slices away. So let's say we take half the pizza slices away. That means we have a half circle that's spinning. When that half circle is not covering the film, that's being exposed.

When I cover it, it's being covered. Now, if we take half the slices away, we have 180 degrees. That is a, it's being covered. Now, if we take half the slices away, we have 180 degrees. That is a window that's 180 degrees. That's called a 180 degree shutter. If we only take one pizza slice away, that's 30 degrees. That's called a 30 degree shutter.

And the effect that this has is you're more or less smearing that image, right? So, when you think of films where people get super high or stuff like that, where it's like things are warping and sort of moving and smearing right? So when you think of like films where people get super high or like stuff like that, where it's like things are warping and sort of moving and smearing, that's when you have a wide shutter angle,

aka like more than 180 degrees. When you think of like- More or less is a piece. Is stuff cross industry standard though? Yes, stuff cross industry standard. It just helps to spin a little bit more. When you have a narrow window, like that's called a low shutter angle.

And that's something like in Saving Private Ryan, when like bombs hit and it feels all like choppy and really sharp, that's a low shutter angle. So it's kind of that, what am I looking for? When it feels almost strobe light. Yeah, when it feels like a strobe, a strobe light sort of thing going off. That's because you're not seeing motion blur,

which is what it's called when motion smears across the screen. So that's shutter angle. Whenever you hear shutter angle, that's all it is, is how many pizza slices you're taking away from the spinning disc. Now, the thing I just want to butt in and say, because this is always the thing I find most interesting about the entire history of film, is that 24 frames per second being the standard

was kind of an arbitrary decision. Oh boy, am I going to get into this. Okay. But it then becomes the language that all of us get used to in terms of how any filmed media looks. Yes. 24 frames per second.

It's like a refrain. Right. It's not based on the way we see. It's based on the technical limitations of the time and then that becomes the language for the next century. Exactly.

But I'm going to get into the physics of stuff because there's a reason why 24 frames gets into it. Okay, so so far we know how this works. We got frames per second, which is how many pictures we're taking per second is frames per second, and our shutter angle is how long in that

frame that it's being exposed. Okay, so now we have to figure out what light reaches our film, and that's where lenses come in. Lenses are just pieces of glass, concave, convex, that are taking light and refracting it into your film or whatever your image sensor, anything that is, okay? Long lenses are when you zoom in on something, when you're seeing a small area.

Wide lenses are when you're seeing a lot. We call wide lenses short lenses because the glass is closer together and the lens is physically shorter. So, page two. Page two. So, now we get into focus. The way lenses work is that,

yeah, I know, I'm flipping through my camera. Camera lenses. The way focus works is this yeah I know I'm flipping through my camera lenses the way focus works is this light that's reflecting through the lens is based on the curvature of the glass

there's a point in front of your lens where things are in focus they are as sharp as possible and from that point okay things that are closer

to the camera or farther to the camera go less out of focus your depth of field that Your depth of field. That's depth of field. Yeah, Ben. Ben's doing guitar solo. And so a wide depth of field is when everything's in focus.

And a narrow depth of field, a shallow depth of field, is when only a really small plane is in focus. So an example is when you see in a movie they pull focus. Yes. It's like wide and then they zero in on an object or a person. Exactly. And the most like, you know, base way of describing is how much of the background is in focus around whatever the central focal point of the shot is. Exactly.

And depth of field is really important because it determines all of your focus and everything that you're seeing in the frame. And there's a couple of things that affect your depth of field. First and foremost is the length of your lens. A longer lens, a zoom, you know, a long lens where you're zoomed in, that's gonna have a shallower depth of field. So that's like when you see like a closeup of a tear going down someone's cheek

and the tear is in focus, but even their eye, their cheek is not. That's shallow depth of field, long lens. When you have a short lens, wide angle, there is a much wider depth of field. And that's why when you shoot a landscape, you can see mountains in the distance are all in focus because when you're wide,

the focus can go on to infinity. And Ang Lee tends to be a sort of long lens kind of guy. Like Brokeback Mountain is a movie that's all like long lens photography because you're seeing them in their landscapes. You had to get Steve Coogan's entire performance shot. We've set up in an episode that Steve Coogan played the mountain. Go on, J.D.

Set up the truth? Yeah. I mean, yes, we have set up the truth. Right. Another element that determines your depth of field is how close your subject is to the camera. So the farther away your subject is, the bigger your depth of field is going to be, wherever your the camera. So the farther away your subject is, the bigger your depth of field is going to be wherever your focus plane is. And the closer your subject is to the lens, the shallower your depth of field is going to be.

Again, think of shooting mountains versus shooting someone close up, tears going down their face. And also another way to think of wide angle lenses, like think of like Terry Gilliam. He'll shoot a closeup with a wide lens sometimes, and more things will be in focus because he's a wide lens, but he's moving it physically closer. So anyways, there's another element that affects your depth of field, Ben. That's your aperture.

Your aperture is... Here's the drum player now. Yes, this is the intensity, how much light you're letting get to your film. The aperture is like, think of it like a sci-fi space door. It's a bunch of blades that form a circle. Butthole.

You can make the- David. David. Sorry. David. David, we're in cinema right now. Steve Coogan played the mountain in Brokeback Mountain. Stop crust pizza.

Just trying to keep it light here. You redeemed yourself. You can make that circle small or you can make that circle big and that's your aperture. Okay, that is like a butthole. Okay, that's sort of like a butthole. Kind of like a butthole. Think about it. Obviously, if that circle is small, less light's getting through. If you're making that circle big. And that's your aperture. Okay, that is like a butthole. Okay, that's sort of like a butthole. Kind of like a butthole.

Think about it. Obviously, if that circle is small, less light's getting through. If you're making the circle big, more light's getting through. We measure that with something called f-stops. The lower the f-stop number,

the bigger the circle. So f-stop of one is, or there can be a little bit more, depending, all the way open. We call it all the way open. And then you have one, 1.4, two, 2.8, 4, 5.6, et cetera, et cetera. We should make it clear

that this definition of f-stop is very different than Ben's definition of f-stop, which is a place where you can stop and fuck. You want to pull over? I've got an f-stop over

here. I know. I have 24 miles to an f-stop. What do you say? I vetted out an f-stop. Oh, no. It's five five minutes away but something to keep in mind is that the bigger your aperture is the wider open it is the shallower your depth of field is and the smaller your aperture is the more your depth

of field is that's why like a pinhole camera everything's in focus is because you have a really small narrow aperture okay so those are the major elements of how film works well wouldn't you say that the f-stop changing that and judging how you're going to

shoot something it's like coolness versus like blown out and like it being like really high contrast looking

and doesn't that kind of play into it as well well so your f-stop doesn't necessarily affect your contrast too much but what it does is it determines how much light is hitting it.

So that's why you have light meters, things like that, and you're trying to expose so that everything looks at the right exposure, not too bright, not too dark. But what you're talking about, Ben, when people sort of take strong stylistic choices like that, that's very often a byproduct of people applying the quote-unquote wrong method for that type of shot. Yes.

Like what JD was saying about like shooting closeups and like, you know, wide lenses like the Coen brothers do or Barry Sonnenfeld does where it's like that weird distorted hyper real kind of thing. Right. It's like going up a few stops. Yes. What they say.

Right. Yes, exactly. So now to talk about Billy Lynn. Now that you understand that those concepts of how that all works. Just hit an hour. It's good. We're doing great.

We can cut out the big three stuff. We're on page three. You know this episode is titled 12-Hour Walk, right? Well, here's the thing. Here's what I would argue. I think it's more important to talk about the tech than to talk about the plot. A hundred percent. So.

Because we could burn through the plot in 10 minutes. Plot? I mean, shrug. shrug yeah so 120 frames per second that is an insane endeavor because it is again way way higher frame rate than anything you ever see so the camera spins around 120 the fucking you know there's 120 pictures with the pizza per second well so now we're in digital in digital there's not actually there's not actually a spinning pizza but that was funny everyone should be on the floor right now okay now we're adding our horn section so here comes sorry go ahead i'm sorry um it's digital film you're right yes right this is not

celluloid so you don't have to worry about that mechanics okay so now I'm going to get into ah fuck what's the best order of operations

to do this stuff okay here's what I'm going to do you should probably mark this episode as explicit just because genuinely a lot of

people are going to use this as masturbation material there are so many blankies who like just fully get off on you explaining things in this detail

but this is I'm not joking I'm curious what you would think people are going to jerk off to this and that's cool There's so many blankies who just fully get off on you explaining things in this detail. I'm not joking. I'm curious what you would think, David. People are going to jerk off to this, and that's cool. I believe that if... There's a lot of blankies that are film critics, amateur film critics, things like that. Sure, sure. I believe that understanding the technology is important to being a good critic.

I think it is. You can't let it... Speaking as a film critic, you can't let it overwhelm your writing or your thought process because that's not for one what your readers really want and for two you know there's more things going but you should yes the more you understand the better obviously you could tell the best critics are the people who have an understanding of how all the different aspects actually work rather than just looking at the final product yeah yeah and for all this stuff i'm trying to explain it as simply as possible so there's some super nerds that might know that i'm avoiding some details or maybe some funny something.

Like sort of toppings on the pizza. Yes. So here's some crazy shit we're going to get into. Or pizza in the bottle. The way film works, and this is now getting to Billy Lynn stuff.

We can get out, we're out of the film school stuff. Now this is me getting into what's crazy about Billy Lynn. We're walking the walk. The way film, walking the walk 2018, the way film works,

people often say what allows a bunch of series of still images to create the illusion of motion is something called persistence of vision, which is the idea that if you right now wave your hand in front of your face, you see that the image of your fingers is blurring. And that's considered persistence of vision,

which is that the image sort of smears in your retina and in your brain and so um that that helps you determine what in what direction things are going how motion's working okay that's not true that is not what dictates motion that's not what makes cinema works so now i'm going to get into some crazy stuff so there's a bunch of these experiments that prove that this is not how it works. Here comes the maraca section. David, you can't, oh my God, if there's one podcast to get into cinema. You're describing how cameras work,

but now you're like, now let me upend to you the thought process. We gotta talk vision, baby. So there's these famous experiments where you take, okay, an image of a red dot. It's a still image of a red dot. No motion blur, nothing. And then you take that away and put up another image of a red dot. It's a still image of a red dot. No motion blur, nothing. Okay?

And then you take that away and put up another image of a red dot in another location. Okay? If you go between those images, one to the other, one to the other, and you start increasing

the pace that you're going between the two, suddenly your brain starts to assume motion between them. Instead of it being one image of one circle here and another here,

your brain goes, that circle's moving from here to here, back and forth, back and forth. And in the science experiments, they refer to this in a certain amount of hertz or a certain amount of milliseconds. I've sort of tried to transmutate it

into frames per second, okay? So the frequency, which do that when you, it starts as being still images, and then, let me get my exact. Phase four. Yep. Welcome to the Five Towers Club, by the way.

From zero. Congrats. Thank you. From zero to five frames per second, it's just succession, two images. Then you get to partial movement, where you get the sensation of things moving slightly. And then, at around between 16 and 18 frames per second, which is really interesting, you have what's called beta movement.

Okay. Which is just like these low testosterone sort of cock movements. Hey, Ben, can you open that envelope? Oh, my gosh. This is like Neil Patrick Harris hosting the Oscars. That's sort of why I did this. Ben is opening the envelope. What's it say on the front there?

Griffin will make a joke about beta movement. And just open it up? Fuck. This is amazing. Beta cuck movement. Okay. I mean, the guy knows me we're very good very old friends

oh my fucking god I just knew Jesus Christ I'm sorry so around 16 to 18 frames I'm sorry. So, around 16 to 18 frames. 1,000 comedy points.

Thank you. That really was a tour de force. That was incredible. Thank you. Thank you. Listen, you know people.

You know someone, you know them. We started doing improv together. You have beta movement, which is interesting. And beta movement is also called optimal movement. That is the moment

at which movement seems the most clear. And what's 18 frames per second, David? What? I don't know. 18 frames per second? That's the frame rate that silent film started at.

Oh, sure. That was the first time when people were like, oh, this is going to be the frame rate. And that's because it matches up with beta movement, optimal movement.

Then, something crazy starts to happen. As you increase the movement even further, beyond 18 frames per second, you get to something that is called the five phenomenon. The what now? Five phenomenon. PHI, Greek letter.

Sure. And that is that your eye stops looking at it going. I can't get over the letter. Sorry. The letter thing is crazy. What if he hadn't done the joke? I almost't get over the letter. Sorry. The letter thing's crazy. What if he hadn't done the joke? I almost didn't say cuck either. I did low testosterone and then I was like, should I put it to bed? You should have also written, David will be

exasperated by the joke. That would have been the true coup de grace if you had also gotten that in. Yeah, right. Just sidebar for one quick second. That's why when people parody like silent film comedies, it's often sped up movement. People move too quickly or whatever.

Because it was a lower frame rate that now has been converted when we watch it. So you hit this thing called the five phenomenon, which is when your eye stops thinking that the red dot is moving and starts observing the area around the dot is moving theoretically. And that's considered pure motion because you're not observing an object moving.

You're observing the idea of motion without a visual cue to it, which is only interesting to me because that starts happening around 30 frames per second, which is when people start to go, how come video looks so weird, which is around 30 frames per second. Wait, wait, because that was the classic complaint about Hobbit at 48

was that it looked like a home movie. Yes. Behind the scenes footage, it looked like a soap opera, all the things that people throw out. Or it looks like you have motion smoothing on your television, right? Which is a technology that creates fake frames in between

to try to get rid of any blurring. Which is a technology designed kind of like for sports things like that are very fast moving video games that people have accepted at high frame rate right and and then you buy your tv and like like half the fucking country just like watches movies with motion smoothing on and like doesn't think about it and film nerds whatever like fall asleep crying go to the bar and go like hey can i see your remote for a second right and i was in an airbnb in alaska and the tv had like i was it was like super motion smooth i was kind of impressed like and i it took me forever to figure out how to turn it off well so here's the thing that's that why motion smoothing is so weird is that what it's actually doing is so when something's at 24 frames per second the time between those frames you know

the image changes right You're in one position and you're in another position. Your brain has to make up what the movement is between that. And so, the more your brain is able to

interpolate, add up whatever it wants that it thinks is going on between there, that's what makes it feel sort of like that like classic movie feeling

because your brain is adding in a lot of the gaps there. Then the higher the frame rate is, your brain's not adding in gaps. And with motion smoothing, what it's doing is it's not even the actual motion. It's a computer trying to guess what the middle is, which is slightly off,

but your brain can't figure it out. But it's like the dreamlike quality that is at this point over a century baked into the cake of how we perceive movies and television, what that visual language is at its very core and for years

like Douglas Trumbull visual effects yep Titan was trying to get the industry to go to 30 yes and 30 was viewed as too big of a jump

right people won't stand for it so the fact that like Ang Lee and Peter Jackson started full on multiplying rather than just like slowly adding frames is insane right because here's here's the next step of all this the physics stuff is that Peter Jackson started full on multiplying rather than just like slowly adding frames. It's insane.

Wait, because here's the next step of all this, the physics stuff is that I think 30 frames is weird because you're right around this five phenomenon, which this is me totally theorizing the physics of that being tied, but I think there's something to that. But then once you get above 33 frames per second, you get into like simultaneity, which is basically your eye, if two images are going back and forth is unable to distinguish one from the other and as you move up

towards infinity that gives you more just there's no gap between the images they're just on top of each other in your eye so the human eye for the most part like like the highest it's ever been recorded is like

500 something frames per second theoretically that man died that man well it's like Air Force is like 500 something frames per second, theoretically. That man died. That man, well, it's like Air Force pilots. He watched it back, right, yeah. Well, no, what it is- They lost oxygen. What it is is that they will show someone

like a footage and then flash an image for whatever the millisecond is. And if they can perceive it, that, so, most people are actually around 45 or a little around there, a little above.

So 120 frames per second actually gets us to the point where for the most part, for most people, it is more frames per second than our eyes and brains can actually process. And so for us, it just appears as reality. So our brain isn't interpolating anything between the frames because every, all the information

is given to it. Which, in film, and Ang Lee and John Toll talk about this in really major ways. Want to remove the window is the thing they kept on saying. Film's always had

this window between it. It's kind of foggy. We want to remove the window and make it look like reality. You're looking at a box on the wall. The window is good. This is the central question.

Here's what's so interesting. I need the window. In most movies, you're looking at a box in the wall and the picture happens to be changing. Right.

Once you get above 120 frames per second, especially with stereoscopic 3D, 4K, and Ang Lee talks about this and it's really interesting, you are not aware of the box anymore.

You're looking at the film and it, you know, we're laughing. It's like there are just people on the other side. Yeah, it looks like there's a hole in the theater

and you're just seeing reality, which means the way that, like, right now, the way that we're all looking at each other, if you look around anywhere, you're not perceiving the edges of your frame. You're just looking, you're focusing on the things around you because your eye has so much to take in. When you watch this movie, you're not aware of the frame.

And as such, the language of film goes out the window. Framing, contrast, all these things go away. You're not aware of the frame and as such the language of film goes out the window framing contrast all these things go you're not watching just people on a stage you're still watching a movie that cuts you know that has close-ups people's heads that has people's arms dissolves yes this is a movie that has a lot of complicated visual tricks right yes and like ha like i mean like andy richter you said that joke about like his grandma watching a movie and has a lot of complicated visual tricks. Right. Yeah. And like, like, I mean, like Andy Richter,

you said that joke about like his grandma watching a movie and you cut to someone's head and she's like a severed head. Like, you know, like that's funny. Like this movie kind of feels like watching that. And, and in a way he hasn't done his career up until this point, it has a lot of,

as much as I said, it isn't a subjective film in terms of being from Billy Lynn's viewpoint. A lot of the conversations as i said it isn't a subjective film in terms of being from billy lynn's viewpoint a lot of the conversations are subjective close-ups the coverage is like chris tucker looking you in the eyes right so we were like walking out of there being like that's the weirdest fucking phenomenon is seeing chris tucker deliver a monologue his head is like 30 feet tall yep and it looks like you're seeing that through a window it looks like king kong is outside your window talking to you about a movie deal. It is wild.

And here's the other thing about that is that there's something in frame called the language of film, which is certain rules that we believe exist. Is that like the line, for example? So there's the 180 degree. There's something called the 30 degree rule. Here's a really interesting one.

30 degree rule. This is a rule that when you are making a film and if you have a camera pointed at something and you're like in a wide shot, if you're going to cut to that same subject again, you have to change the angle

by at least 30 degrees. Otherwise, your eye notices the cut. Sure. Because basically, the image needs to be different enough so that your eye

isn't as attuned to what's changing. We had a different 30 degree rule on set of The Tick, by the way, which was the soundstage had to be 30 degrees because Peter's costume was so hot. That sounds like paradise to me.

I'm not even joking. A lot of crew people wearing parkas in July. The line, so say it's like JD and I are talking, right, is that your camera would stay on one side of our conversation. That's the 180 degree. The orientation of the frame, if David's on the left and JD's on the right, if you do a hard cut over to fully the other side where then

David was on the right and JD was on the left, your brain would reject it. It would just look stupid. Although Phantom Thread crosses the line many times, and it's one reason those conversations are so strange and disorienting. It can be used much like we were talking about, breaking rules on purpose to get a disorienting effect.

The great Jeff Erb, rest in peace, one of the things he said about the line, Jeff Erb, he was a cinematographer. Sounds like an Erb. Jeff Erb. He was a cinematographer. He was part of the ASC. He was a professor at NYU.

He sounds like a Mario Kart villain to me. But he basically said, don't have to wear a 180 degree rule. The thing you have to keep in mind is characters should be looking the same direction on screen. And that's all that your eye really cares about. How do you spell this guy's name?

Jeffrey. B-R-B. Interesting. There he is. Jeffrey D. Erb. Yeah, he was incredible. Passed away a couple years ago. He died.

Wikipedia says he's still alive. Not true. No. It sucks. But, so 30 degree rule, a great example. Have you done VR, anyone here? No. Yeah, I degree rule, a great example. Have you done VR?

Anyone here? No. Yeah. I just did it on mushrooms. Yes. I listened to that episode of night call. It's actually really great. He talks about it.

So something in VR that they learned is that you can't cut in VR because people throw up. So they, they do fades to black and then fades back up. Yeah. Because in VR, when your reality just changes, it's too, it's upsetting to your, and then fades back up. Yeah. Because in VR, when your reality just changes, it's upsetting to your balance.

Same thing happens in 120 frames. The third degree rule does not work. Coverage does not work. Because as you look at it, you believe you are perceiving reality. And when it changes, it seems off-putting. This is what I want to hear. This is why.

I want to know why this movie looks so fucking weird. And I don't mean the crispness of the visuals. I mean how the camera moves. The way your brain processes the information on screen actually kind of hurts you. As we were watching, I was trying to explain to my girlfriend like what was so unsettling about just the movies, the way the movie's visual language works. And it's hard to explain. Yes. Because I'm not that smart.

I'm stupid. Big dum-dum. So here's a really interesting thing. You're looking at me like you. I'm stupid. I'm a big dum-dum. So here's a really interesting thing. You're looking at me like you want me to deny that you're a big dum-dum. I was like, imagine a spinning pizza. And she was like, I'm going to bed. She's like, I'm done with this. So people talk a lot about how 3D is like color film and sound being added to film.

It's not, in my opinion um because we already had ways to uh communicate depth in film and the two ways were focus and contrast those things both both communicated depth now we're using 3d to communicate depth and it's different so in this film what they had to do is they started to realize is that contrast and shadows didn't work because we're used to a 2D plane, a square that we're dealing with the – It's a rectangle. Yeah, the rectangle that we're dealing with the balance of, right? Because we are looking into it and we're perceiving it as reality, we don't need contrast or lighting or focus to tell us anything about what we're supposed to be looking at. Because that would be like if you're looking out into the world and suddenly just one thing

is in focus. That means that you need to get glasses. Now that's why I rewatched the movie in 3D last night because I started out watching it in 2D high frame rate. Yeah. And if you're going to lose one thing, it's actually more disorienting to lose the 3D in watching it because the way it is shot and lit,

there is zero depth in the image if you're not watching it in 3D. Right it because the way it is shot and lit, there is zero depth in the image if you're not watching it in 3D. Because of that, trying to mimic reality, quote unquote. And so here's what they became up against when they're shooting this. When you shoot stereoscopic, you need two cameras. You basically have one camera for each eye. You have something that's called

the beam splitter in the middle, which is a mirror that shoots light off of it into both cameras. Of course. Right. So, they're shooting on Sony F65s, which are pretty heavy cameras. Sure. And you have this 3D rig

and all this stuff that has to connect them and combine them. Oh. And, when you're shooting 120 frames per second, you have a lot of

your batteries, all the media, it's huge. A noise. Their rig was over 100 pounds, the camera. So, Ang Lee talks about how he's so used to shooting steadicam shots, it's huge. Their rig was over 100 pounds, the camera. So Ang Lee talks about how he's so used to shooting

steadicam shots, things like that. A steadicam operator cannot hold 130 pounds on their shoulders for more than two seconds. And there's very little camera movement

of any kind in this phone. It's a lot of static lockdown long takes. The moves feel very like you really notice when the camera moves. And when you shoot stereoscopic, you need those two things to be totally in sync.

So like a great example of this is that they shot these on Master Prime, which are really beautiful lenses, but they had to go through dozens of lenses to get two of each lens that matched because lenses are, you know, made by humans, fallible. Things will be wrong with them. If only we could get rid of humans.

That's page five of JD's manifesto. Now, fallible. Things will be wrong with them. If only we could get rid of humans. That's page five of JD's manifesto. Now, the humans. The humans ruin film. Cinema. Oh, boy. So, they're shooting this with these giant camera rigs that are hard to move.

On top of that, you need to be perfectly synced. Something they ran into while shooting this was that because they're 120 frames per second, they could not get the cameras to be totally in sync. They would be off by a couple frames, which

totally changed how media managed. Sounds like a fucking stupid idea then. It's crazy. This is like the rule when Tommy Wizzaro is like, we'll shoot digital and film at the same time. The thing that's crazy about this movie, craziest about this movie for me, is that he decided

to apply all of this to making a full feature film that was going to be released in theaters, rather than going like, let me get technology companies to give me five million dollars to make a short. Blank check, baby. Which is kind of like Inaritu's VR film, like that's a short. Right, that kind of thing. Where he's like, let me try and begin

to develop a way to use this. Legendary gave him the budget to sort of test out what happens if you give and he uses it in a clever way and it's like there's an immersive concept to that movie that makes sense but this is an all or nothing thing in the same way that Attack of the Clones was where it was like I'm gonna do the learning curve we're just gonna build this whole plane in the air

while making the movie and just put it up on screen I'm building this for you cinema community we're gonna do it on a script that's like from an untested writer that's not a movie that's screaming out for this. Like we said, there is some thematic concept here, but there are other ways to use

visual and film language to communicate that this guy is feeling weird. It's been done. Right. The crazy side effect of that for me is that because of the way they had to light everything, frame everything, set up the camera, move, you know, the way they directed actors, the way they dressed or didn't dress the sets,

all of these things, the film is essentially unwatchable in every other format. So, that it's not like a 3D movie where you can just remove one of the two. If you just watch it in like a 2D. Like you can watch Avatar in 2D and you argue that it's not as good, but it still does work in the way that you're used to watching a movie.

It makes sense. This movie looks strange even when it's in normal frame rate. Yes. So to answer your question of why does this look wild, so first, the camera rig is totally unwieldy. Right. So the speed at which you're used to shooting stuff is impossible. Second, as they start to shoot, they learn that coverage does not work,

which is when you're shooting a scene, you get close-ups, angles. Right. That doesn't work with this. And then you can put it all together in the editing room. Then, here's where I explain all of how cameras work to you guys. Ben has the biggest, smallest face. Here's where I explain why cameras work to you.

So, because you're using all this technology, and this technology, I'll start by saying this. The production designer, there's a great quote where they talk about, usually when you production design a scene. So like right now, if you look at like the wall of this building, right? We're looking at a wall in this somewhat newly built studio. You can tell that the paint looks like it's a newly built

studio. And that's because there's not years of layers of paint painted on top of it. And we perceive that because we're in this room. Whereas when you go into like a New York apartment where there's 40 layers of paint, you can sort of perceive that. But when it's in movies, you don't really notice that. In Billy Lynn, you do notice it. The production designer was like, usually in films, I would put three or four coats of paint on a wall. And in this film, I had to put 30 or 40 because

you would notice it. You would notice it. Likewise, the makeup artists were like, you couldn't put makeup on because you could see it. You see it. You see any makeup on these people's faces. And it gets into like, if any listeners have ever been on any film set of any sort there's always that disorienting experience even if you're on the lowest level thing you know where you're just like god this looks so fake i can't believe it photographs is real on camera and they're like we've been doing

this for a hundred years we know what it's supposed to look like no trial and error these things have been developed bit by bit and they essentially tried to rewrite the entire language of cinema in one 120 minute movie. And here's what's so wild. Not just the language of cinema but the language of how you produce a film. Every different department. Yes, every department.

Anything that looks slightly off or slightly manufactured is glaring in Billy Lynn. But because they're shooting in 3d your beam slitter splitter takes away one stop of light it's it takes away half of your light then because you're 120 frames per second that takes away that takes away two and a third stops of light fuck so now we're losing stops everywhere three and a half stops of light okay Then Ang Lee is like, everything needs to be in focus. What did we learn about focus?

To have things be in focus, you have to have a small aperture, which means what? You need more light. So they got into the situation where they needed sometimes five or six times as much light. Because also,

the F-65s they're dealing with sort of have a built-in digital ISO of like 800. And anytime you push it above that you start getting digital noise so of course they were anything that was slightly not real stuck out like a sore thumb but they also needed to find a way to pour a light in in a way that has never been done in cinema before which is like like square peg round hole those things do not fit that's why like if you look at the behind the scenes stuff

of them shooting the Super Bowl, there's these big helium balloons you can fill with helium, float into the air, put really bright lights in. They had like 10 of them in the air just to shoot as much light as possible onto the subjects.

Likewise, Ang Lee was like, contrast doesn't work. Lighting doesn't work. We have to keep it low contrast just so as an audience member, you can look at it and just pick out what you want to look at in the frame. So it's this insane endeavor

of anything that's slightly messed up, you're going to notice, and everything is messed up because we're doing this. And you're also, I mean, the experience that everyone who's seen this movie projected in the full Ang Lee format, a format they never came up with a name for. They should just call it the full Ang Lee.

Yeah. In Ang-O-Vision is that you can't stop focusing in on weird things in the background. Sure, sure. Like you get really hung up on signs on walls or like certain background actors. Especially if something doesn't look totally right. If their background, because a big thing on set is you go like, hey, we need clean sound so all the background actors just mind talking. And you can't stop focusing

on how fake the people pretending to talk in the background look. Which is something you never pay attention to. It's weird that you would do all of this in a movie where you have someone playing a fake Beyonce. Yes, that's the thing. That's the weirdest. The weirdest of all things. I know I've already said other things are the weirdest album in the movie where you have someone playing a fake Beyonce. Yes, that's the thing. That's the weirdest. The weirdest of all things. I know I've already said other things are the weirdest album in the movie.

My girlfriend immediately, the second was like, that's not Beyonce. And I was like, well, no. I mean, they couldn't get Beyonce. It's all that you can think about. So the second she's on screen in the most important scene in the movie. And you only ever see the back of her head and it's the most glaring thing in the world. And like every time she turns

around and the other members of Destiny's Child, you know like which they might do like if they're deep in the background, you notice it because you're like, oh I see how we're not really able to see their face. It's a haircut. Right. But there's even this shot where it's like her in the foreground from behind adjusting her wig and in the background

totally in focus. You see the line of like the seven Bravo guys and it is somehow the most amateur hour shot. It looks like garbage. That's exactly it. You're like, why does this look cheesy? Like this movie is supposed to be like a visual revolution. It looks cheesy. It looks cheesy

because anything that's not real, you notice. Which is why I think this technology should be used to make like a film like Koyaanistatsi or like Baraka samsara so much better for documentaries and that's why i thought i thought casting uh what's his name is the lead is really interesting because he's not necessarily an actor actor he's a guy that's sort of new whereas something that angley talks about and that you you and i noticed was when you look

into the eyes of the actors performing this movie, you see an actor performing. You see all the insecurity. You see them remembering their lines. It feels like you're reading their mind. You see them making the choices. And the thing that's astounding is, I think Joe Allen is really good in this movie and comes off the best of all the actors. He's good. He has the least talking to do. I disagree that he's the

best in the movie. Garrett Hedlund? Yeah. He's very good as well. He's excellent. He's the only one who seems to have figured it out. Yeah. Because it's not just the visuals. It's also the best in the movie. Garrett Hedlund? Yeah. He's very good as well. He's excellent. He's the only one who seems to have figured it out. Because it's not just the visuals. The script is so weird. The script's very odd. The thing with Joe Alwyn is that he's straight out of drama school. So he is a real actor

but he's not an actor who has any real prior experience with on-camera stuff in any serious way. So he doesn't have the movie-making tricks that he has to ignore. They didn't have to teach him how to unlearn, because people like Vin Diesel and Steve Martin, my best

friends, are people who have over decades developed such a strong sense of technique in terms of what their relationship to the camera is. Vin Diesel, above all else, is an actor who's like, I know exactly how to play on camera, I know what my angles are, I know the disable I talk at This is my relationship

And then you watch him in this and you're like I see Vin Diesel thinking about when lunch is going to be Fair enough I mean he's hungry I think Vin is fine in the movie I think Kristen Stewart's fine I even think Steve Martin's okay All of them play better when you're watching it normal frame rate That's probably true

Yeah everything does They're medium even think Steve Martin's okay. All of them play better when you're watching a normal frame rate. Yeah, that's probably true. I was going to say. Probably true. All of them do. Yeah, everything does. Because that's their medium. They're the three actors who are the most, or the four actors who are most experienced

in the old school way of cinematic language. Joe Alwyn works well because it's like Ang Lee taught him how to be on camera specifically for this camera. And they talk about

how they did so many fucking tests with him because the studio didn't want to hire a totally unknown guy who'd graduated from drama school literally two days before they put him on the plane. So they did like 10 tests with him. They kept him in Texas like doing tests or L.A., I think, for 10 consecutive tests over the course of like two weeks.

So they were a testing him and testing the technology at the same time. So I think his performance is the most married to everything they were trying to do technology. And that's the other thing. As they shot this, they couldn't watch it in 120 frames per second. The technology did not exist for them to watch dailies. In fact, even in post-production, in editing,

they could not watch it in 120 frames per second. So they were making a movie and being like, right, hopefully this will all come out in the wash. They're making a movie like the Lumiere brothers. It's like you shoot it and you go like, I hope this this will all come out in the wash. They're making a movie like the Lumiere brothers. It's like you shoot it and you go like, I hope this turns out. And you don't know.

I have a question though. Shoot. If I'm traveling, let's say going on a trip somewhere. Like a long half time walk. You know, where would I,

what would I use to transfer things from one place to another? Well, that's the thing. Look, if you're taking a long halftime walk, you don't want a lot of things in your pocket, right? Jangling around, cutting into your thighs and the like. All right. You know?

I hate when that happens. A lot of people go, like, luggage. It's so inconvenient. It's so heavy. Why would I pack a bag? pack a bag well maybe maybe someone has just entered this space a disruptor into the luggage space to send all your problems with luggage away oh you're talking about the team of thinkers seekers and designers who've created a new kind of luggage luggage with power and i don't mean power like emotional power i mean like like real Well, like you can plug your phone into the thing.

Like power season six on Starz. Exactly. And this is a product that designed after asking thousands of people how they pack, why they travel, what bugs them about their luggage. So this bag, it doesn't have sticky wheels, you know, solving old problems. But it also solves new problems like dead cell phones. Yeah. Well, it's got a battery

built in so you can charge on the go but the thing here's the thing i really like about it okay okay shoot i sweat a lot for a man as as small as myself and i use the term man very loosely fair enough i i sweat like joe cocker at woodstock and so if i go on vacation my clothes are like you don't get a second use out of them, right? When I pack my bag, I'm always like, dirty clothes in the same bag with the clothes I didn't wear. Am I getting a plastic bag from a bodega and stuffing the dirty clothes inside? Here's the thing they do. Removable, washable, laundry bag. They do.

Keeps dirty clothes separate from clean inside. So you get to separate, segregate your dirty clothes from your clean clothes. Maybe segregate was a loaded term to use, but you put it in there, you close it off, then when you get home, you pull the bag out, you put it in the wash. Done. Alright, now I gotta tell you, this sounds awesome because I currently

don't have a home. Ben is homeless. And this is not a joke. I don't have an apartment so I think I need this. Ben's like Pete Holmes because he's crashing. He's crashing. In several different applications of that term. It ships for free. How could I get this?

Ships for free anywhere within the lower 48 states. You're in one of those. You can buy it with all major U.S. airlines if you want to take it as a carry-on. You can get it in many sizes. The carry-on, bigger carry-on, medium, the large. Because you might be living on an airplane but if you want 20 off a suitcase you visit awaytravel.com slash check and you use promo code check during checkout okay so i check to make sure the promo code box is there and then what do i type in i'm gonna repeat myself for 20 off a suitcase visit awaytravel.com slash check

and use promo code check during checkout. That's $20. And, you know, they're great. I have one. I'm taking it to Toronto in just a couple days. Double humble brag. Great. Well, thank you for answering my question. Let's get back to the walk episode. Talk in the walk. Get back to talk in the walk.

Ding dong. Oh, who's that? Let me open. Hey, kids. It's me, Ronald McDonald. The official sponsor of Blank Check. If you come to a local McDonald's and use the promo code Blanky, I'll cut your Big Mac and hack. Why is he? You can take one half now and take one half home. The fucking clown from It.

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say to the cashier, promo code check. Yes, and just wait. And if they don't know what you're talking about, you go, I heard you were going to hack my Big Mac and hash. Hack my Mac. Promo code check. Hack my Mac. Promo code check. Hack my Mac. What were we talking about?

Hashtag hack my Mac. We were talking the walk. Don't entertain. Here's something interesting. Here's an interesting byproduct of all this stuff. In 3D films, usually, there's an issue. And this is a big issue in Life of Pi where there's motion blur issues because motion will start mid-frame or something like that,

and you get this weird ghosting feeling. The camera movement's too fast if the movement of the characters on screen's too fast. Yeah, and it doesn't work. In this, it's all good, baby. It all works. Yeah. And you're watching football players,

and you're watching dancers at the halftime show, people moving very fast. Have you ever noticed in a movie when the camera will pan across a scene, and you're like, oh, I can't look at that. And that's motion judder. It's a problem that happens

because your brain can't track all the changes that are happening, especially when there's motion blur. And it's especially disorienting to look at in 3D where it's trying to render blurs in three dimensions, which doesn't really make sense.

But Life of Pi is a better movie than this movie. Yeah, I would agree. But 120 frames per second, that problem doesn't exist. So there's all these things that as you watch this movie where you're like this feels weird and different I can't tell why. And this is the thing that I feel like suckers I would say some of these directors into this like James Cameron Peter Jackson where they're like I want my special effects to look cleaner I want

these like big action scenes I'm looking you know to like be more easy to follow with your eyes. Hub in 48 frames per second is mostly a nightmare to watch, but anytime there's an entirely CGI creature on screen, you're like, this is actually pretty stunning. Looks good.

Like Gollum looks amazing. But the problem is that a guy wearing Hobbit makeup looks like a guy wearing Hobbit makeup. You can like see the seams of the nose. You see the difference

of the refraction of the light, you know? You see the guy in his eyes being like, am I a believable Hobbit right now? A hundred percent. Yes. You don't feel anymore like you're in fucking Rivendell of the light you know you see the guy in his eyes being like am i a believable hobbit right now 100 yes you don't feel anymore like you're in fucking rivendell or whatever whereas in the original lord of the rings shot on film as far as i know like where he's just like let me point the camera

in new zealand like you're like oh this looks seems like another world because there's a window it's like give me the window well it's like Bill Plimpton does the animations. He draws in twos or fours, right? And you watch that and you enjoy it because your brain is interpolating between it. Here, oh boy, you're just getting reality. You're looking at Steve Martin and you're like, Steve Martin's not sure if he can do this.

And Steve Martin is aware of the fact that he's wearing a suit that they just bought yesterday. You can tell all of these things. And you're like, did Steve Martin get a facelift? You're looking at all these aspects of things that could usually be hidden on camera, plus you feel like you're looking into everyone's minds. Steve Martin is the biggest one where you're just like, oh, that's Steve Martin.

That's all I'm thinking about when he's in it. He's not playing a character. It's just Steve Martin. It's weird. He's got weird makeup. You're like, why is Steve Martin talking like that? That's not how'm thinking about when he's in it. He's not playing a character. It's just Steve Martin. It's weird. He's got weird makeup. Why is Steve Martin talking like that? That's not how he talks. Do you know that he was offered the Chris Tucker part?

Ang Lee really wanted him for that. They announced that Steve Martin was in talks for Billy Lynn. Then they said he had dropped out because he didn't want to play that part. Then he came back and was like, I'd like to play the owner. Then he was back in the movie and this part feels like a far less natural fit for him which i find fascinating because in born standing up his memoir uh he talks about how he felt completely discouraged from being in dramatic films because he remembers going to see the premiere of the spanish prisoner the mammoth film he's in. Right. And the audience laughed when he came on screen

and he was like, that's it. Conclusively, they will not take me seriously as a serious person. I don't want to fall on my face and embarrass myself by trying to do that. And then in this movie, they offered him the part that was a little more comedic in a drama. Right. And then he decided to go for the character that is very dry. Yeah. Very dramatic.

Right. Right. Really weird. And then you're watching him and seeing that intent in his performance. Yeah, it's wild. I have a question about VR. You brought that up earlier and I just experienced that. Yes. And it was intense. But that was because I was on

Silver Siphon. And that will make things feel very intense. And you were doing that on Earthshroom. but that was because I was on, you know, silver siphon. That'll make everything. And that will make, you know, things feel very intense. And you were doing that on our firm. Vin Diesel's fallen hero from this movie, which you don't even know his name because you don't watch it.

Yes. Uh, so I, though I was thinking about the, we were like the whole time. Yeah. Friends and I went, we were talking about the implications of this technology. Yeah.

And like, even just thinking like how in like some weird, creepy, like Berlin club, there's like horrible designs of like VR reality that you could like engage in. Right. Um,

so, you know, but the other thing I was thinking about of like, sort of like how we're all talking about like, uh, big flashy superhero movies is the future. So even just thinking of like, are we going to start going to movies and put on a VR mask like I did? Oh, God.

Because the thing that I will say about it and then walk around in a room like I was, you know, in these different installations, because the thing about it is, I don't know if that's storytelling. I kind of agree with it. It just becomes immersion. Well, so here's the barriers that are in the way of VR right now. Number one, you have motion lag,

which is when you move your head, there's a slight lag between the video moving and you moving. And if you think of VR, most of the VR experiences you've had have probably been CGI, right? Because filming live action footage, the only thing you can really do right now

is take a single data point and be collecting everything that's coming into it, right? Right. Whereas true 3D, the experience of living life is that I can walk around objects and see the different angles of them as opposed to standing in one spot

and just looking around me. So we'll have to develop technology that allows you to actually explore and change and interact with real footage in a way that is as dynamic as the real life. Because until then, you're just stuck at a finite point and everything around you, you can look at. So that's why I don't think that's coming.

But I do think this technology of 120 frames per second 4K 3D is a step towards that. Because, again, right now we are inhibited by the rectangle screen, but this technology proves the rectangle doesn't really matter when you have a high frame rate like this. So I do think

there'll be interesting things. But I think this is, I think where, I think this is a very early stage of something that will probably develop into something more reasonable and more useful to us. But this is the first step. It will be a long time before... A long half-time walk. It will be a long half-time walk before it turns into anything that is more experiential. I'm going to say this in the dumbest

way possible, but what I find fascinating is all of these techniques and technological advancements say this in the dumbest way possible, but what I find fascinating is all of these techniques and technological advancements, which are in the name of trying to the notion they throw out is we want to greater reflect reality. Make the image you see on screen feel more like how your eyes function, what the real world looks like to you.

When it's with live action elements, weirdly starts to have an uncanny valley effect because you're starting to notice how fake everything is. Right. And the CGI rendered elements always work better. You know, like this stuff works in video games, works in VR. I mean, if you were going to try to push the high frame rate thing just as its own thing,

it would make more sense to do that with CGI animated films. You know, to say like Coco's being released on limited screens in 48 frames per second and that might fucking work that's kind of what could be the breakthrough for the technology at least to get people to sample it but god animators would kill you having to animate 120 frames per second it literally if you're doing 48 it doubles their workload right you know and and i mean it will that's the thing all this bullshit is a lot of bullshit but at least it's like you are still just pointing a camera at someone and turning it on.

It's not like animation where they have to, they can't just point a camera at something and turn it on. Because Pixar movies, which are state-of-the-art, are still done in 2K, and there's been some questioning of like, why wouldn't you go to 4K live-action films that are in 4K now? And it's like, because it literally would double

our work and our budget. But I would want to, instead of watch a movie about robbing a bank, I want to rob a bank. But you can and already have done that. You just buy a gun and rob a bank like you do. Good time. All right.

He's taking the fifth. Oh, weird. Okay. Do you remember that time that Ben walked into a bank and said, this is just good time VR? With a loaded shotgun? What's wild about all this talk, too,

is that the technology does not exist for 120 frames per second really yet. Like Avid, which is the editing system everyone uses, it only released its sort of like beta version of 60 frames per second during Billy Lynn. So they had to by hand track and manage their media,

like an Excel file they had open to track, to line up the frames, get everything to work because it does not exist yet. You're just telling me this and I'm so stressed out because they made a bad movie. Like it sucks to hear all this

and it'd be so great to hear all this, and you'd be like, and the fucking result is there. Like, what a titanic film that will always be remembered. That's the thing I find so interesting about it as an artifact. Yeah, it's interesting.

Is that if you were doing, like, a five-minute short film, and when we walked out of this movie, we talked about it for a bit, and then we met up, like, two days later to talk about it for, like, another three hours, right? You and I just walked around and talked about it. The big thing we were going into is, okay, there

is potential in this thing. What kind of movie could you make with this? You'd have to fully design it around the technology. And we were going, is it a film that only takes place in one location? Is it something where you have entirely non-professional actors? Is it a documentary? Is it this visual aesthetic? Is it this type of story?

I mean, we're running through all these different possibilities, right? And if you were doing, like, let's design a bunch of five-minute short films, testing out the different sort of genres, aesthetics, all these things that would work with it, whether, you know, we were saying, is it better if it's improvised? Because then you don't see people trying to memorize their lines. If they're really reacting naturally in the moment, if they don't know what they're going to do, all that sort of stuff. To have to deal with this level of problem solving takes up so much mental energy and so much time that it

just feels like you're watching this movie and there's like a fifth as much energy spent on the actual movie as a storytelling device as there should be. And a big part of that is these shots are so difficult to set up that they said like

it was like two, three takes maximum. So dramatically I finally hit it last night where I was like this feels like a shittier Clint Eastwood movie. Where he famously is like

I don't want to take too long in this. It's two setups. It's three takes. Either you're ready or you're not. And sometimes it totally works because you've got Tom Hanks

that's a pro and sometimes it's 15-17 to Paris and you're like what the fuck is going on here? And it It's a pro. And sometimes it's 15, 17 to Paris. And you're like, what the fuck is going on here? And it feels like abstract art, but at the weirdest moments, this feels like abstract art,

except performed by people who are very professional. I'm watching this movie. I had seen it twice already, but I'm watching this movie with Joanna and like, uh, the first 20 minutes, like, you know,

the weirdness of it. I'm like, I do love that idea that he feels like the world is feeling a little too real. And also that idea that we lionize veterans and military people and he's trying to present them in total clarity and show you how scared and shaken up they all are. And I'm like, I love this. And then 20 minutes in, or maybe 25, he's having that conversation with the cheerleader. Yeah.

And they're saying these weird long monologues to each other about like how they really feel and you're just like this is one of the least engaging scenes i have ever seen and from two actors who i think are pretty good it's just like this movie is fucking terrible yeah this is boring and i'm like yeah yeah i know it this is a bit of a rough scene and then you realize like it just sort of like sinks into the muck like it can't pull itself out it just doesn't have engaging pathos like you know what i mean apart from the halftime walk which is pretty good and i've been in this scenario a thousand times on set but if a scene like this is just not really grabbing you what you would do after two takes is go like okay let's throw it all out so what would make this maybe let's change the blocking let me give you a different direction

but it was kind of like they had to go with their first draft ideas of every single shot at least in terms of performance and like there are scenes like the big steve martin speech scene where he's that's his scene where like network scene where he's like mostly delivered in direct address like here's and he just kind of gives this like somewhat flat speech and then you're kind of like then the movie moves on and you're like that was important. Was that important? Does that matter? And especially for A. Lee, a guy where it's like he just likes to sit on set in silence for an hour and a half to get a full understanding

of the space. He likes to work with actors' body language, do breathing exercises. He's so precise about sort of the dramatic, you know, his technique in terms of that reserve. And a lot of times that's whittling down from bigger performances to

getting smaller and more nuanced things. And with this, it's like they just don't have the space to do anything other than what the first strike is. That said, though, well, here's what I want to say. And this is me not being a critic. You're a film critic. That's what you do professionally

I'm just a fanboy of films I'm J.D. Miter and I love movies I don't I don't like this film being categorized as a bad movie or a terrible movie

I think this is a really courageous thing I think that it takes I think it takes a lot of guts to go we're going to be the first ones to use this technology I think it's a really novel idea it takes I think it takes a lot of guts to go we're going to be the first ones to use this technology I think it's a really novel idea

it is it is I like the idea the movie is like Fitzcarraldo it's like the actual event pushing a church up a hill or whatever right

it kind of doesn't matter what happens when the boat gets to the other side of the mountain but the fact that they hold it up the mountain is in and of itself and it's like

I think his instinct to go Alvin Lucinda what's the movie with the church it up the mountain is in and of itself. And it's like, I think his instinct to go, Oh, Alvin Lucinda. What's the movie with the, it doesn't matter. Carry on. Jesus Christ.

But his instinct to go, let's make this, let's use this technology to make a film about a vet. Like that all matches up. And of course, sure, it doesn't totally work out.

And there's aspects of the story that don't turn the line up. But I feel like when everyone's like, oh, it's a bad movie. It's a terrible movie.

Like I disagree. I think this is, as people who love blank checks, we should be rallying behind this because 100% if blank checks need to be uh measured on whether they're perfect or not then we're not going to get any more blank checks we're gonna get Marvel movies and Star Wars movies no but Marvel movies and Star Wars movies aren't perfect they're just like they're a guaranteed you know what I mean like but that's but like they're just guaranteed to be pretty watchable. That's exactly, 100%.

You're saying he took the big swing. I'm saying he missed. Now, we both admire the swing. Which I agree with. Right.

But I don't think that means it's a terrible film. I'm saying, right, but he missed. So, like, that's bad.

I don't think it's a terrible film. I think it's not a good film. Not a good film. Yeah, I gave it like, it's like a 6 out of 10 for me. It's just a weird thing to say about a movie like this because it's such a polarizing bizarre movie but it is kind of

like a film where you're like this doesn't really succeed but it is so unusual and it's hard to hate i will say two things about it one jd and i i love this and largely agree with you on this but i know you're a big proponent of the experience of making the movie should be as much a work as the movie itself. I think that can be as valuable creatively. Right. And this is like an ultimate example of that. Yeah. And certainly the process and the challenge of what they put themselves through is

more interesting than the movie itself in this case. You wish there was a Burden of Dreams style documentary about the making of this film just so all of that could be documented. The tragic thing about it is the movie is essentially unwatchable to most people now. Can we talk about that after I'm done? Yes, in one second, because this is the second point I want to get to. Okay.

But it's like, most people can't see it the way it was intended, and because of the way it was intended, the version that does now exist for people to watch feels compromised, and just doesn't really make sense. Right. Now, the thing about this movie for me, though, is I just always remember, because it's not a fancy wording but it sticks in my head whoever it was at the new york new yorker i think it might have

been anthony lane when spider-man 3 came out did his whole pan of spider-man 3 but said there's this one fucking sequence in the middle the birth of the sandman sequence but for five minutes there's nowhere else in the world you'd rather be and i think about that sometimes sometimes with a movie that doesn't work, but you get the one sequence where it's like, this is what the director was trying to do. And for a brief window, it totally crystallizes. And for me, the actual walk itself is that. When I saw this in theaters with you at 120 frames, in 3D, in 4K for the walk, I went, I fucking get it. And this feels like a masterwork. This is brilliant. And it's insane how when you watch it not in that format it doesn't totally work

at all can I get that right that was my point is I guess sales experience well we're gonna get to that to the halftime walk that's kind of the walk is great and then we watch it on my TV in like you know crisp blu-ray or 4k you know but still you know and

I'm like, no, I mean, that wasn't, that was good. Yeah. But like you forget, like it only really truly works in the proper. And it did.

It felt, it feels like you're in his head for that sequence. Right. And it was astonishing. And at the end again, the, the sort of the, the final montage he has during the fight.

Although. Some of the wartime sequences, him in the pipe with the guy in Vin Diesel, that's an excellent scene. And even the shit like the pink mist, I just remember being like, oh, this actually feels like what I imagine it would look like to be on the battlefield.

It doesn't look like a movie version of war. This looks like actual violence. But then there are scenes like the scene where Billy Lynn in Flashback is doing pull-ups, chin-ups, and-ups and Vin Diesel and Garrett Hedlund's characters are talking to him yeah they're all standing nowhere near each other right and they're having this kind of casual conversation but it looks like a stage play or something like the way they've all been arranged and then none of them ever move because

it's for the sake of 3D exactly and you're just watching and you're like, this is fucking stupid. Like, they're not people. Like, sorry, Ben. And it's, you lose the whatever human drama he's like built ahead of steam. Like, it just sort of like dissipates really fast. And they're even just like narrative issues. Like, the whole running thing with them getting in troubles with like the stage hands at the concert

where they're in the wrong place at the wrong time. It varies. Like, you're like, why are they yelling at them? Why are they being mean? These are veterans. This is like a halftime show. There's so much security. There's so much play at this event. Destiny's Child is playing and they're going like, so here's

what you're going to do and giving them the directions 30 seconds before they go onto the field. You haven't worked this out before? Stuff like that where you just go like, it seems very uncharacteristic for Ang Lee to put that much that little thought into the internal logic of

human situations. Right. Or the thing with the stage where the you know the techs get like so mad at them and then decide to fight them after

the game. Right. That they're just waiting in the alleyway. They would never let that happen. No one would ever think like let me

attack these famous war veterans. One because it's shameful. Two because because it's shameful. Two, because they'll kill you. They're murderers. And also, the first half of the movie, they have Ben Platt with them constantly as their handler, guiding them through everything.

And then he conveniently disappears for all the scenes where people are trying to fight them. Right. And then, I'm just sorry. This is the thing. And then it's like, when you just sort of dig into the movie, you're like, none of this holds water. It's so frustrating. Right. And I love the idea of that. I iraq war movies are hard to make we kind of talked about it on um uh hurt

locker even though it's under you know middle east you know war on terror movies yeah uh this this is kind of almost there to a good iraq war movie like the ideas are good the you know the the sort of like total fallacy bush era kind of like America like yeah we're still out there doing like I like that montage watching this movie makes me want to read the book so fucking hard the book's better right like of all the people talking to him where it cuts like to all the sort of like stock phrases we all remember

yes from that era I think the combat scenes are good yeah in conveying like I think they're really good just sort of the uselessness of it I love that thing where yeah where the guy he murders, his hand goes up for a second like he's saying a prayer or something to himself because he knows he's about to die. And then the red below him is great.

But it's fascinating. As much as we say it kind of pulls the curtain back on performances and lets you see the process, the moment when he's stabbing the guy in the tube, you feel like you see life leaving this guy's eyes. Right. And it's bizarre. Yes, yes.

Because it feels more real than anything you've ever seen. And then the way the blood slowly trickles out, it no longer feels like a visual effect. It feels like, holy shit, this is what it looks like to watch someone die. Like, you feel like you're watching a snuff film for a moment. And so there are these glimpses where it feels like the technology is totally lining up with the storytelling. They are largely the nonverbal moments. Right. And so there are these glimpses where it feels like the technology is totally lining up with the storytelling. They are largely the nonverbal moments. Right.

You know, because I just think the script isn't there. And the dialogue scenes, the performances just aren't massaged enough. The dramatic sort of logic of the thing isn't totally figured out. But there are these moments that completely justify the film existing. As if it didn't already justify its own existence just from the bravery of the experiment which in and of itself is just this amazing like we're going to the moon in 1918 you know like we don't even know how to get to like Missouri yet and you're going to the moon like that's what it feels like yeah yeah just like this will go down in the history book someday as

something whether anyone ever figured out how to do this, it becomes this amazing chapter in filmmaking history. Which is, I think that's the important thing to me, is I just don't want this film to be dismissed and forgotten because I do think it is Ang Lee, John Toll, the whole crew that made this. Vin Diesel. Taking these pretty brave, courageous steps to try this thing.

And we don't see a lot of big filmmakers spending a lot of money to take these big swings that may or may not work. It's like, to me, it's the epitome of what a blank check is. It's like, I'm going to cash in all of my history as a filmmaker to do something that I think will

at least push film ahead, even if it doesn't help me right now. There is weirdly something kind of selfless about it in that regard where it's like I'm going to use my cachet to try to make the advancements that no one else can make. JD changed my opinion today

okay because I like watching movies because I like stories and I like kind of leaving my own reality and being absorbed. Seeing people who have a home to live in. But I will say that I've also always been like, fuck this Blu-ray bullshit. I don't care.

I've never cared. I've never, ever cared. The technological aspects. Because I always was like, is it really that much of a difference? I always get SD. It is also annoying that you always get SD. I've never given a shit ever.

I get it. You watch VHS when possible. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I prefer it. Yeah. But you have opened my eyes to the idea of experiencing a film and being more immersed

through the visual. And I never really, I was always just like, I care about the story, the characters, the dialogue. I don't really, I'm not thinking about what it looks like, but it makes a difference.

And what perfect timing as we go into our parent trap episode? Yeah. Well, I think it takes, Christmas visuals of all. It takes filmmakers

appreciating and respecting the fact that they need to use an interesting way to make it worthwhile. A great example is like the early stereoscopic films of this modern generation.

I really didn't like... What are we talking about here? What do we got? I mean, whatever the first ones that come out in stereoscopic. Like early, I'm trying to remember. I guess like some of the Marvel movies did. I mean, I'm trying to think what were...

Journey to the Center of the Earth. The Robert Rodriguez did the couple. But the first one, and you called me and Griffin stupid animation animation nerds for this Coraline was the first one where I felt a movie the

that Henry Selleck was respecting the medium and trying to do something interesting that was using it in a way that was engaging me as an audience he did stuff where yeah I love how he had he had

sets that were purposely really deep and sets that were used visual physical effects to make them really shallow that the 3D was really messing with your eyes. He's literally using depth as like a storytelling element very consciously designed into like the body of the film rather than just being like let's have things staggered in the image. And that was the first time that I went, oh, this is actually an interesting tool to be used in film. Yeah. Similarly, where it's like I have the same thing. It's like I couldn't give a shit.

We were just talking about TVs before now, and I don't have a good TV or a good audio system. I don't care. I like the stories like you. But then when people start trying things that are interesting and are trying to push the format, that's when I have to open my eyes and respect that. Because that's when it's interesting again,

is when Ang Lee is going, hey, let's try this thing and try to use it for art, not just to make the ticket 10 bucks more expensive or to release it in another DVD version. And I'll say a thing that I think I said on that episode. I will repeat, despite it making me look like an idiot because I wasn't as

smart and ahead of the curve as you guys were at the time, but I remember walking out of Speed Racer with my sister. She said, what did you think? And I said, I don't even know because what they're doing with the visual language is so different and beyond what anyone's doing that either this will totally make sense in 10 years or it will be this weird curio

of someone trying something crazy. And Speed Racer's an example where it's not like every movie looks like Speed Racer, but a lot of the elements of Speed Racer have seeped into our general sort of storytelling language where that movie makes more sense now. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. Speed Racer's great. Speed Racer have seeped into our general storytelling language where that movie makes more sense now. That's true. Speed Racer's great. Speed Racer fucking rules.

It's wild. How are you guys doing? I'm doing great. We all just went quiet all of a sudden. I know, it's just a lot of the process. I love you. That's the thing in the movie. What? Vin Diesel.

Oh, I love that. I love that too I love you. I love that too, but it just kind of happens. Yeah. And then it happens again and the movie's like, like you did before

and you're like, yeah, okay, I guess so. I thought we were just having a nice moment on the podcast. No, I do love you. I love you so much. But I was, well, I was just, you know.

I think male intimacy is like not a thing that really gets represented. I'm a pretty intimate guy. Yeah, don't get me started. Now you're complaining. Yeah, a little too intimate. See, I feel like...

You went 180 on male intimacy. I was trying to catch you. Honey trap, baby. I feel like my goal is... Oh, no. Go on, JD. JD, what's your goal? Pulling out another envelope.

Why is he called Shroom? What the fuck Griffin will try to honey trap David he's tripping yeah probably yeah cause he's all trippy he's like spiritual that was the most half hearted baby

I wish this was the best performance of all time you just want Vin Diesel to be so good in this movie and you know what he is fine yeah pretty good in 120 movie. And you know what he is? Fine. Yeah, pretty good. In 120 frames, I think he's actively bad. Right. You see behind all the smoke and mirrors. If you watch it in 24, you're like, he's okay.

Yeah. He's okay. I agree. But yeah, it's very odd. Watching it in the high frame rate, you were like, I see that Vin Diesel is very consciously playing his best angles to the camera. Well, so here's a few of my favorite moments in the movie. One is there is a scene where they're in a limo,

which to get the camera into the limo, they had to disassemble the camera, bring all the pieces in one by one, and then reassemble it in the limousine. So it's like when you can't get your sofa through the door of your house, the guy has to take your sofa. Yeah, Dr. Sofa.

And this shot when they like- He came to my house with them. You cut to inside the your sofa. Dr. Sofa. And this shot, when they like, you cut to inside the limo. This is when like, eight minutes into the movie, everyone in the theater takes their glasses off for a moment and like,

rubs their temples. Because you're seeing everyone in this limo and they're all in focus and then in the back corner, there's a window where you're seeing people tailgating

and they're all totally in focus and normally, you wouldn't see them and they wouldn't be in focus and there'd just be these blurry background actors and instead you're like, that background actor's

drinking a cup but there's nothing in it. That guy's throwing a football to nobody. You're noticing things that you would notice in reality. What's the African are the seats made out of?

Where you can see the whole stadium. What stadium was this shot at? Dallas. So it was shot at the stadium. Yeah. That's crazy. I'm pretty certain. That must have been fucking so complicated. Yeah. What stadium was this shot at? Dallas. So it was shot at the stadium. Yeah. That's crazy. I'm pretty certain.

That must have been so complicated. Yeah, well, and it's also impossible to light a giant stadium like that. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like the worst environment. And half of this movie is them sitting in the stands, like them just sitting in the middle of the crowd, and you see everything behind them. They CG'd some of the audience in.

I have to imagine. Imagine how hard that would be. 120 frames per second where any error in reality is so noticeable. Yeah. God. The fact that, you know, the book is supposedly so acidic and satirical, right?

And it's the contrast between Billy Lynn, who's a man of few words, and his sort of internal monologue and calling out the hypocrisy of everything around him. The Garrett Hedlund character, who we said is the character that comes off the best, the best performance in the movie, doesn't exist in the book, if I'm not mistaken, and was created to have another character verbalize everything Billy Lynn was thinking. Which is also the reason why he's the only engaging character to walk, because it feels like he's the character speaking honestly. And it gets to a point where you're like, is there going to be a twist where he's a ghost or something? Because he's so forthright. Because he's just

like forthrightness and Billy Lynn is just internalized like quiet and you're like well this kind of hurts Billy Lynn that he like isn't able to say anything. Billy Lynn is just, he just looks like a lamb. He's just got those shimmering eyes. I think Joe Alwyn might be a good actor. I just saw him in Operation Finale. He's good in that.

I feel like he's got promise. He has a big year this year. It's a lot of face in this movie. I just wonder if, especially with this technology, if the movie would honestly work better more focused on close-ups of Joe Alwyn

with voiceover over them. That might work better if they literally just kept his internal monologue and you're just watching these close ups and looking into his eyes and all of that. It might be weird, but also this doesn't work. Two other things I want to point out before we stop talking about this movie and never talk about it again.

Here's the plot. They take a walk. Never stop talking about Billy Lynn's long hair. Two things. One. What's an annual tradition? Talking the walk 2018. We're going to do it every year like the Blanky hair. Two things. One. What's an annual tradition? Talking the walk 2018. We're going to do it every year like the Blankie Awards. Definitely not. His sister, Catherine. Yes.

They play their scene together with this uncomfortable intimacy. It feels like they want to fuck. Right. And of course, part of the idea of Billy's character is that he's a virgin. Right. And that crazy thing where we literally send people off to die in Iraq and they've never had sex but they can kill people.

Which is one thing I think Ang Lee does really fucking well in this movie is casting really, really young looking actors for the whole squadron to kind of sell home

the reality of like, oh, these are kids. Arturo Castro from Broad City. Baby face. Yeah, baby face. So that's weird. Two,

that scene at the press conference where two times the screen grays out and they like say the real answer and then they you hear them say the fake answer and like you can't do that twice and never again yeah that can be a thematic device or you don't do it don't do it like twice it just seems weird technique like he wants to show reality versus fantasy but doing it any other way would break the technology yeah so just fucking take that out yeah it's basically a masturbation joke i almost feel like this technology means you have to also follow like the dogma 95 rules like oh like it's just there's a manifesto you have to subscribe to well literally the dogma rules where it's like no sets, no lighting.

Maybe not all handheld. But like all the things. Because anything that feels non-real. Maybe you should have a podcast that watches every Dogma 95 movie. And talks about all the rules that got broken. There's only one though, right? Did Kevin Smith ever make a Dogma 95? Oh no.

That was 99, not 95. Boo. Your IMDB star meter just went down Oh my god Wait can I There are 35 dog movies That's a good little mini series I found something that made me laugh really hard Chidi is wearing a blank check shirt

He's a good boy Wait can I borrow your computer for a second David Oh you fucking jerk. Why? Because I have a segment I want to do now. Let him do it. I'll do a merchandise spotlight. Let me do a segment because I learned something recently and I think you guys will appreciate it.

Wait, vamp while I get this set up. Don't like getting my computer taken from me. Merchandise spotlight. Football. Still America's favorite sport never done anything wrong no controversies is there any

merchandise for this no no what's the fictional team in the movie because they can't use

I think they just say Dallas I don't think they ever call them a name that would be a great piece of ephemera

like a fake a fake jersey Philly land jersey yeah locking into IMDB pro right now. Wait, it's very funny. Holy shit.

I'm going to check my star meter. I mean, if you stay logged in, I'll happily use your IMDb Pro account. Sure, you can use it if you want. You know those like Temple Run, those like mobile games where you're like trying to run and collect all the things

and not fall in a pitfall. They should have made one of those that's like a halftime walk and you're just very slow. Try to make it all the way without being discussed. Hey guys rachel tried to get uh dan uh vogler to to be on the show dan vogler from like star taking woodstock yeah his email is what are you doing i won't say i'll bleep it It's Does she know him or something Yeah she did a podcast with him

He has a podcast Is he going to be on the show Maybe I'll say this that is one of the better email addresses I've ever had Truly one of the better email addresses I've ever had That was a good vamp Great vamp Ready for JD's segment.

I noticed this the other day and it really made me laugh. This is the IMDB star meter report with JD Amato. IMDB has a thing called a star meter which they randomly assign a number to someone. It's like how many times you've been

searched, right? That kind of stuff. I don't really know. There's some algorithm. it's like how many times you've been searched right that kind of stuff I don't really know there's some algorithm I know I know okay Ben bleep everything that's happened in the last 90 seconds just one straight long

bleep and it ends now IMDB has IMDB has the star meter where it ranks people everyone that's on IMDB but on the star meter where it ranks people. Everyone that's on IMDB. But on the star meter page, it has four categories. The star meter,

how much they've moved up or down. And then inexplicably, it has age and height. And you can categorize... It's not inexplicable. I can tell you why they have that, but carry on. You can categorize everybody

by both age and height. Yes, it's for casting purposes. Yeah have that, but carry on. You can categorize everybody by both age and height. Yes, it's for casting purposes. Yes, I understand why you would have someone's age and height there, but you can rank everybody in IMDb based on their age or height. Are you going to see other 29-year-old 5'6 actors and how I rank against them? No, he's going to find the shortest and tallest actors. I want to check in on, according to IMDb,

who the youngest, the shortest, and the tallest actors are. want to check in on, according to IMDb, who the youngest, the shortest, and the tallest actors are. What about oldest? Right now, Ronan Willingham is the youngest actor at age zero. Well, that's no point. Zero? Give me his credits. Jackson Roloff from Little People, Big World is

up there at one years old, as is Aria Dixon, Fiona from the NBC Nightly News at Lester Hall. We're cutting this. We're cutting this fucking segment. But then here's the best part. Here's where it gets wild.

You have height, so at half an inch... You already read. Half an inch? What are you talking about? Is it a fucking sea monkey? Half an inch is a guy named Keon. Impossible.

But here's the real kicker. A clerical error. Here's the thing that's so funny. He's like a fucking caterpillar or something. Who do you think the tallest actor, who is the tallest actor according to IMDb, the tallest actor in cinema history? Groot.

Keiko the whale. Oh! How tall? How tall? 24 feet. Which means to me, they're measuring Keiko's height as if Keiko were standing with a finned nose.

Yes. Number two is Topsy the elephant. Larger than life? Operation Double Drop? No, from the film from the fucking... Oh, the one that gets electrocuted? The elephant that... Einstein?

Jesus Christ. But take a look at the laptop back. You already read a five-page manifesto. I'm going to log out of my MDD Pro. No, no, no, no. Let me use your MDD Pro. Why do you want it? Because it's so useful for me.

Just don't do anything weird for me. No, no, no. It's just so I can see publicist's phone numbers, you know, so I can say like, hey, I want to interview Topsy the Elephant. He's long dead, David. I don't know. I don't know. How funny is it that Kako the...

IMDb is like, here's who's hot and here's who's tall. I want Topsy the Elephant. That's his only credit, right? Yes, yes. He was kind of one and done. We're going to play the box office. Keiko the Whale. Why does IMDb have that?

Keiko the Whale had a few credits too, right? Like, I mean, there's at least three Free Willies. I think he didn't do all the Free Willies though. I think he did some, like, he might have been in, like, Mary Kay and Ashley Mysteries at SeaWorld or something like that. They Jason Bourned him, yeah. They Jason Bourned. Yeah, you forget that Renner played Free Willy in the third one.

Pierce Brosnan jumped in at a certain point. Do we want to do the... I think the weekend it went wide. It's one weekend later. So then pick either weekend. I'm trying to see...

Maybe don't get so fucking mad. Look, whichever one we don't do now, we'll save for a talk in the Walk 2019. Oh, wait, what? Ding dong. Ding dong. Hey, kid. I'm back.

Oh, my God. It's like one shitty blockbuster. We're doing the weekend it opens. You can actually do yours. We're doing the weekend it opens. You can actually do yours. Why is Ronald McDonald holding a paper SS Georgie? Okay, we're doing the weekend that it first came out. I think Ben wanted to do an actual ad there. It's okay.

No, we're not doing an actual ad. It's a marker. Well, no. It's one for later, but it's fine. Here you are. Ding dong. Now you can actually do it. Ah, the movies. Are you can actually do it. The movies.

Are you Orson Welles right now? They help us escape our world with a list of actors, extravagant set pieces, and witty dialogue. But what? Record scratch? About the music? Oh, are you talking about the soundtrack show? Yes. The podcast that breaks down the music in your favorite movies while giving a bit of history around the film and its impact in today's pop culture and like the best french

wines it's hosted by david w collins a veteran voice actor and composer with over 20 years of experience and entertainment but yeah don't just call him a critic he's an entertainment professional he loves pop culture and he reveals behind thescenes info on your favorite flicks and reveals how music makes them so memorable. So, like, you got, like, Spielberg didn't want Alan Silvestri to work on Back to the Future at first, and Silvestri spent most of the production winning him over. Yeah, and, like, the best French wine, Princess Leia. Oh, boy. We lost Griffin. oh boy we lost griffin yes and like the best french wines princess leia's theme in star wars is more romantic than the others that makes you care for her characters if she represents the good

in the galaxy worth fighting for uh yeah and part of what makes the infamous shower scene in psycho work is because the score makes you physically uncomfortable and And like the best... Look, you can listen to Soundtrack Show every Wednesday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. You'll never listen to movies the same way again. And like the best French wines, all of the music surrounding gameplay in Super Mario Bros. only lasts five minutes.

Aha! And we're back, kids. Okay, box office. Remember, go to McDonald's, promo code blank, and say Jack in my Mac. Be quiet. Be quiet.

You guys are in person now. Billy Lynn's long halftime walk. Don't use one of the kiosks. It's got to be person to person. Communication. It's got to be person to person communication. It was in theaters. Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk was in theaters for five weeks.

Total. It was on two screens in its first week. That was New York and LA. Correct. It then expanded to 1,100 screens. Was in those for the two minimum weeks that are required by exhibitors, essentially. Yeah.

Then lost all its screens, went to 75, 16, and then vanished from theaters. It's one of the biggest single weekend theater drops. Do you know they released the film in 24 different versions? No. I don't know what that means.

What do you mean? Between stereoscopic 3D, 2K, 4K. Right. Different 3D versions. Like 24 different versions. Found domestic totals a million and a half. 1.7 million dollars. But it does make 30 worldwide.

Yeah. The studio is estimated to have lost about 40 million dollars. But like outgrossed by like two of the three father's nose yes it's outgrossed by every angley movie except for pushing hands and ride with the devil those are the only two right that never cracked a million yes um so number one on november 11th 2016 i reviewed this film by the way you can read my review it's not bad it's on the atlantic.com um number one is a Marvel movie. Doctor Strange. Yes.

So this is the weekend when Donald Trump has just been elected president. Jesus. Like, it's a rough weekend. Oh, I forgot. Yeah. So this is second. Pretty much. This is second weekend of Doctor Strange.

Correct. Where my mother and I were visiting my great aunt and uncle at a retirement home in Florida. Sounds like a great place to be. The weekend after Trump had been elected and we were losing our minds and we were like, let's walk to the closest movie theater

and see Doctor Strange, which my mom has seen zero previous Marvel movies. And even she was like, they're all kind of the same, right? That was her first Marvel movie? No, you know what?

I think she saw, weirdly, I think the only two she had seen were Iron Man 2 and The Avengers. Sure. And she didn't like

either of them and then she saw this and was like, yeah, they're all kind of the same, aren't they? Kind of are. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, Doctor Strange and Second Weekend. Big hit. People underrate for like a solo first Marvel film.

That's maybe the biggest of the first, other than the first Iron Man. I guess so I mean 232 pretty solid yeah it did well

yeah cause the other first entries usually do around 180 and it's that weird thing where we're obviously gonna get another one but they won't say what the future movies

in Marvel are right now cause they don't wanna quote unquote spoil Avengers 4 I think they knew I guess how big a part he'd be in Infinity War so it wasn't

as much of a problem I love that he uses the Crimson Bands of Citrax. I mean, I like them. I think he's a cool guy. It's a fun movie. That's another movie

that is actually infinitely better in 3D. That actually uses 3D really well. It looked cool in 3D. The visual effects are really special. Because they do a lot

of portal dimensional stuff like that. It uses depth in a very similar way to Coraline. Number two is a film written and directed by past and future guest

Richard Lawson. Trolls. It is his Trolls. Which in its second weekend has made $93 million. And at that point had made $4 billion in merchandising.

Correct. That was DreamWorks' attempt to do cars and just be like, what's a thing we can put on everything and make It was a film about how you couldn't

stop the feeling. I listened to that song unironically. America was trying really hard. That's a real JD Amato statement. Is that like a pump-up song for you or is that like a chill-down song for you? During dark times,

I'll sometimes listen to it to get into a good mood. Cool. When you're trying to kickstart the feeling and it won't start. Yeah. You just can't stop that feeling to start it. Whatever.

Okay, number three at the box office. It's a new film. Well, not new. New at Okay. Number three at the box office. It's a new film. Well, not new. New at the time. New at the time. I mean, this is a couple years. One of the best picture nominees of this year. Oh.

A great film. One of my favorites of 2016. And kind of like a genuine and heartwarming hit for this kind of movie. Yes. This was a surprising opening weekend for Arrival. Arrival, which made $100 million total, $200 million worldwide. I remember people hypothesizing at the time if the Trump election had helped boost the film with its message of struggling to communicate.

It's a great movie. And now I think it's just like it was a good movie. I don't think it had any political power. It's a great movie, though. Can I say something just like it was a good movie. I don't think it had any political. Probably. It's a great movie, though. Can I say something about the box office game that I just want to admit? Is that every time I listen to you do it, there's a part of me that thinks that you've cheated beforehand. And that on the way here, you took a look at it.

We talked it through or whatever. No, just that Griffin has. You think I've memorized it in advance. But I will say, anytime I'm here in person, and I see you drawing from your memory, I can tell that it is real. And even if you did cheat, I wouldn't want to test it. I wouldn't want to know.

You're in the world of magic. You're wondering if I'm using some mentalist tricks or whatever. But you're saying at the very least I'm selling it well in person. I'm saying, for the listeners, there's a part of me that was skeptical. Yeah. I believe you're legit. I do find we have that when people are in the studio could you film it

at 120 frames yeah then we just figure out if I'm lying or not the truth teller okay number four at the box um

it's a Christmas movie it's a Christmas movie here's the tagline for it five days together oh joy I just I definitely know that Joe Reed saw this movie here's the tagline for it. Five days together. Oh, joy. Five days together. Oh, joy. I definitely know that Joe Reed saw this movie in the theaters, like,

within days of Trump's election. Love the Coopers? No. That's a good guess, though. Good guess. That is a good guess. Is it ensemble picture like that, or is it like a star- It's an ensemble.

Does it have, like, a top line? Does it have, like, a real major major star or is it really just truly an ensemble picture? It's a real ensemble picture. Yeah. The cast is listed in alphabetical order on the poster. There's 11 names here.

Was it Almost Christmas? Almost Christmas. I get that confused with This Christmas. I don't know any of these. There's a lot of movies with these sort of generic bland titles. Almost Christmas. It has Bad Zoo Boy in it though. Look. Look. There he is. Bad Zoo Boy, John Michael Higgins. And on the poster he's kind of

going like, No zoo for you. He's kind of got his arms crossed. The Zoop Nazi. John Michael Higgins fan. Yeah. They all are. Who is first? is that an alphabetical Kimberly Elise's first build with her E

right and then you got Omar Epps Danny Glover yeah John Michael Higgins Romany Malco and Monique

Monique Nicole Harry Parker yeah there's a second line baby JB Smoove Gabrielle Union Jesse T. Usher DC Youngfly DC Youngfly I DC Youngfly?

I don't really know who that is. I know the rest of them. He is an American rapper, actor, comedian, and singer. Well, hey, that's a lot of stuff. Number five at the box office? You don't want me to talk more about Almost Christmas? Because we haven't seen it.

I do like the dynamic between David sometimes being like, come on, let's get through it. And then sometimes you're like, you know what? I'm just going to settle in. Sometimes he really sits. I like how this feels. I like this chair.

Number five is another of the year's best picture nominees. And one of those best picture nominees that people will probably struggle to recall in future years. And you know, it's a movie that actually didn't do that well. Interesting. This is its opening weekend or is this a wider expansion? No, it's been out for two weeks.

I feel like you've never seen this movie. It's a genre you hate. Oh, no, I have seen it because you kept on telling me to not see it. This also got a Best Director and Best Actor nomination. Correct. It is called, fuck, Hacksaw Ridge. Hacksaw Ridge. It was sort of a hit.

It made 67. But, like, I remember the buzz was kind of like a real comeback for Mel Gibson. It was sort of a hit. It made 67. But like, I remember the buzz was kind of like a real comeback for Mel Gibson. It's like, well, it did fine. Yeah.

It is insane that he got a Best Director nomination for that. That's the most egregious thing. Two years ago. Yep. That's when that happened. He's got to be done though.

No, he just made a movie about police brutality with Vince Vaughn. He didn't direct it. He's just the star of it. It's called Dragged Along Concrete. Yeah yeah i wonder what the politics are on that one oh boy oh boy uh we've got the accountant one of those like sleeper massive hits yeah huge uh terrible accountant fever i never saw uh shut in what is shut In? It's the one where Naomi Watts is shut in somewhere.

She's stuck. Oliver Platt. I don't know. I never saw it. What else have we got here? We've got Boo and Madea Halloween. Jack Reacher Never Go Back. Sorry, you just scared me for a second.

You know, I just remember like so many of these movies, it was that thing where Trump had just gotten elected and you're just like, even like looking at a poster for Boo and just gotten elected and you're just like even like looking at a poster for Bua Medea Halloween you're just like everything's changed now.

Yeah. Inferno. Inferno. There's an ad for Inferno on my Billy Lynn DVD. Really? Yeah. And I was like

Ben Foster? And then I just skipped ahead. I forgot he's in that. Wait it has like pre-roll DVDs? Pre-roll ads? Yeah isn't that weird?

That's very 1990s. Disney's usually the only one that still does that. We're unlocking the vault. Yeah. And then the next week is Fantastic Beasts. But I picked the week before. Fuck Fantastic Beasts. Okay, Beasts.

Yeah, exactly. We're like fine beasts. Well, there's only one. Another one's coming this year. Okay, Beasts, if you can be bothered I liked all the Harry Potter movies and then I saw those

and I was like I don't think they're gonna scratch quite the same itch so I'm just not gonna do it nope no they don't they don't scratch that's probably

a great way to define what's wrong with those movies they don't really scratch that itch so then I was like I'm just not gonna do it and I'll just have enjoyed the Harry Potter movies

I've said this before but like the color palette of that film is limestone it's like the strangest decision ever made because it's a very well designed movie it's a well designed movie

with a lot of clever visual ideas but then also they're like but every building should be white it looks really fucking boring

when they pitched it when it was first announced I was like I like the idea of doing a Harry Potter movie that is not like living in the mythology

right and it's not about the boy who lived movie that is not living in the mythology. Right, and it's not about the boy who lived. It's not part of this epic hero. It's like Gremlins are small soldiers. It's like he's got a suitcase and the things fall out and he's got to capture them all. It's Harry Potter Pokemon. And then the movie is so much about Wizard Hitler. It's so deep in the mythology.

That's the problem. I bet you wonder what the other countries were like. It's like, not really. What do they got, wizards? Well, yes, actually. It's like New like and it's like not really like what do they got wizards? well yes actually and it looks a lot like wizard London very similar but Dan Fogler's there

Dan Fogler you have to bleep it out again Dan Fogler probably is the best performance in that movie right? that's the most effective character it's also an a** you have to bleep that out too don't give many hints

maybe this will be this is a legendary episode we're going to have to do it again next year same time next year stop setting that up 2018 fans that is not happening I want to be clear We're going to have to do it again next year. Same time next year. Talking the Walk. Stop setting that up. Talking the Walk 2018. Fans, that is not happening. I want to be clear.

At the end of every year's Talking the Walk, we plan next year's Talking the Walk. Maybe it's like a premium episode. Possibly. Hold on. I'm emailing Joe Bowen right now to design our I Talked the Walk 2018 show. No, what it's got to be now,

it's got to be I Talked the Walk and it's got to be a pizza. With every other slice missing. A spinning pizza, yeah. Oh, David, it's me, Griffin in the present tense. Thinking back on that episode we recorded a couple weeks ago. A great episode. Oh, remember when we made the joke about the I Talk The Walk

t-shirts? Sure, it was an idle joke. One of our famed tangents. I'm going to get deathly serious now. We made them and they're available right now on TeePublic. You can wear a shirt that announces to everyone proudly that you talked the walk in 2018. Why is the wind howling

so menacingly? You're setting a standard. You're making a promise that you will continue to talk the walk every year and buy another t-shirt and we'll all become billionaires. There's a crow pecking at my eye. Ben, get that crow away from your eye. You need to see. Go to tpublic.com. Slash stores.

Buy. Slash blank hyphen check. Buy your I Talk the Walk 2018 t-shirt because you're going to feel embarrassed if you don't get in the ground floor and you don't have a complete collection 10 years from now.

I mean, there's just one question. I mean, did you talk the walk or not? Right. Did you or didn't you? And here's a parallel question.

Are you a goddamn loser or not? Are you going to step to the plate and own your life? Oh, there's another question. Ben,

remember when this promo was going to be short? My ears are bleeding. And Ben, here's one more question. Who designed the t-shirt? What? Who designed the t-shirt,

Ben? My father, Robert. Robert Haslund. As if you need to hear anything else. So go buy your shirts now, you losers.

Did you know Ben's dad actually designed the t-shirt, guys? That's truly, no jokes. He texted us the other day being like, my dad's designing a logo.

It's a family affair here, Blank Check. What a puke. What if we What if we end this episode? I agree. No, what if we make good out of this and make an annual this is not a joke, an annual Billy Lynn themed

charity walk for Blankies. What if we use it as a force for good in the world? We weaponize our fan base and you do the annual Billy Lynn themed charity walk for blankies? What if we like use it as like a force for good in the world? We weaponize our fan base and you do the annual Billy Lynn podcast walk to raise money for herniated discs and backs of actors closely. Cut all that out, Ben. Just cut it out. Okay.

Great. I talked about 2018. But I do think I feel like JD comes into every episode where he's like I'm gonna coin a new fucking catchphrase for this show if I live to regret it talk the walk 2018

t-shirt is I talk the walk with a pizza with a couple slices missing spinning motion line I didn't do one of my patented sub podcast this episode oh I guess not didn't do one of my patented sub-podcasts this episode. Oh, I guess not. Oh, that's true. You want to do one now?

Hey, guys. J.D. Amato here. Just jumping in for a quick second. I didn't actually have anything to say, but because I set it up in the episode, Ben said that I had to put something in. So I guess I'll just say this. If I got any of the tech or physics stuff wrong this episode,

I'm sorry. I tried my best. Also, I'm sorry we didn't really talk about the plot of the movie. Anyways, we'll do better next year talking The Walk 2019 now back to the show and we're back run time

two hours 24 minutes people let's kill it and we didn't even go over the plot of the movie at all to be fair

when we bleep out Dan Folger's email address the episode will be one hour and two minutes right correct that's true it's a very long email address I don't know how anyone ever writes it. It's really long. Has Rachel just been trying

to type out the email address for weeks now? From the moment they hired her. Just finished. Wait. Okay. Can I finish? Here's the things I want to get off my chest. He's getting the manifesto out again. He's taking out a second manifesto.

It's leather bound. Unlocking it with a key. I want's taking out a second manifesto. I just want to say. It's leather bound. I want to. Unlocking it with a key. I want to shout out a couple people. It was just an eldritch scream that came out of that thing. Some fantastic beasts are crawling out. Yeah. A Niffler?

The table's turning to stone around it. Go on. What's up? Dimitri Portelli, the stereographer and 3D supervisor of the film, needs a shout out. Ben Gervais, the production system supervisor.

Those are the two dudes that did all the tech stuff for this film. And if you look up, Sony has all these articles about how it went down. It was crazy. 3D is really good

in this movie. Yes. They used other facts that I want on the record. They used true motion shutters, which have the ability to have more than 360 degree shutter angle. Now they understand a shutter.

How crazy is that? It doesn't really, I don't really get what that even means. JD's manifesto is sucking neighboring objects into it. Like a portal. It's on fire, but he can still touch it. All right, that's most of all I wanted to say. Well, we finally did it. We got J.D. to be a little embarrassed.

J.D., are you right if I scan that and make it a PDF available for people? No, I'm not. It's proprietary. He's got to save something for next year. Okay. No, you can't have it. Wow. All right. I'll bring. It's proprietary. He's got to save something for next year. Okay. No, you can't have it. Wow.

All right. I'll bring in a manifesto, and whatever I get into in the podcast is what we get into it, and whatever we don't get into, it's for Talking the Walk 2019, and we get into it there. It will be included in JD's archives that are donated to a university when he dies.

I'll try to hop into the Reddit to try to answer some questions. Sure. I got called out. I went to watch you guys. David did a Q&A. Yeah, I went into the Discord to chat with fans. And I was like,

I'll watch David answer questions. And I didn't know how Discord worked. I used it for video games. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. With like three friends. And so I went in and it was like, ding, J.D. Amato has arrived. And everyone was like, and I didn't know how Discord worked. I used it for video games. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. With like three friends. And so I went in and it was like, ding, JD Amato has arrived. And everyone was like,

and I was like, no, no, no, I don't want this. Stop looking at me. And I was like, what's up, JD? How you doing? How do you think the Bulls are going to do this year? You know, I like tried to talk to you and you were like, I'm just lurking. And then the other night,

I opened up Discord again to play video games with friends and it had me automatically logged in. People were like, hey, and I was like, oh God. Goodbye. Yeah. But I lurk on oh God. Goodbye. Yeah. But I lurk on that thing.

After my last episode, someone that I was in the grade school performance of West Side Story. They gave you a good review. That was the first and only time I was ever in a play.

Yeah. Shout out to you, Taylor. Well, you've been in stage performances at the UCB and stuff. I guess it's not like a play. You've never done. Also, this is the one time I told you guys,

someone on the street was like, oh, you're JD Amato from Blank Check. So this is now my home. That's your title. On the street? Oh, it was a friend of a friend. Okay. Still though.

Shout out to you. Well, thank you all for listening. Thank you for talking the walk. JD, thank you for being here. Congratulations on your entry into the Five Timers Club. Thank you. I also say, I don't need to, I'm not in competition with Emily or Richard.

Those are people that should be on the podcast more than me. They're actual film critics with actual interesting takes. Hard to disagree. Beyond getting into the technical stuff, I don't really have hot takes on stuff. No, I get you. I get you. You're the best in the biz. You're the best in the biz.

You're the best in the biz. Here's what's up. Emily, you, Richard, you're actual critics who I read your reviews of things. That's very nice, yeah. No, but you belong

in the podcast as much as anyone else, you maniac. Yeah. Stop being a maniac, you maniac. I love movies and I love this podcast

and I love you guys. I love you too, Katie. I love you too, David. Blanket. Thank Katie. Blanket. Thank you all for listening. Thank you for taking the walk. Thank you for listening to the Ang Lee miniseries. Quite a long one.

Next week, we begin the run of our March Madness champion, Nancy the Juggernaut. Later this week, a little bonus episode. Ang Lee's The Hire. Or no, what was his called? Right? The Hire was the whole series.

The BMW short series where they had like John... No, Chosen. Chosen was his. The Hire was the larger series. We're going to do that. And including that, our final summation thoughts on Ang Lee. Thank you for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Go to blankies.red.com

for some real nerdy shit. Thanks to Andrew Fraguto for our social media. Thanks to Joe Bone and Pat Reynolds for our artwork. Lane Montgomery for our theme song.

And as always, JD looks like he has something to say. Nothing. Really? Don't forget to hack my Mac. I got my quote I'm gonna use there's a quote? can this be titled

talk in the walk 2018 as if to imply that every year will return you're so obsessed with breaking our format I think we should also it implies that we will. What if we make t-shirts... Talk the Walk 2018.

What if we make t-shirts that said, I talked the walk 2018 and it had some survived, you know? Like it was... Like fireworks, like the poster. I talked the walk 2018 and it's got the silhouette of fake Beyonce. Addressing her wig from behind. Put that's got the silhouette of fake Beyonce.

Addressing her wig from behind. Put that all at the end of the episode. We'll see what the response is. This movie is so insane. Okay, are you ready? It is insane. It's the best. No, it isn't.

Yes, it is. I will convince you by the end of this.