Blank Check with Griffin & David - Blue Steel with Jordan Hoffman

Episode Date: October 1, 2017

Jordan Hoffman (Engage: The Official Star Trek podcast) joins Griffin and David to discuss 1989’s crime thriller, Blue Steel. Would Jamie Lee Curtis and Bigelow’s careers been different if this film had been more successful? Does it pass the Bechdel test? Is Kevin Dunn one of our most frustrated actors? Together they examine Ron Silver’s performance, tongue shtooping and share Richard Jenkins stories. This episode is sponsored by Mack Weldon.

death is the best kick of all that's why they save it for podcast okay it's my ron silver it was a i'd say more of a ron bronze i don't think i really hit that one out of the park ron brass ron brass yeah yeah hello everybody my name is griffin newman i'm david sims this is blank check with griffin and david that's the name of the podcast we are hashtag two friends it's a competitive advantage i wish other shows had that going for them because God, is it working out for us? This is a podcast about filmographies. Right? Do you agree?

I do. I'm just looking for your approval, David. I approve. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and were issued a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes,

hold on one second. Pow! They bounce, baby! Yeah, bring it, bring back Marin for this one. I'll bring it back. Yeah.

This is my series on the films of Catherine Bigelow. Okay. It's called Pod 19, The Widowcaster. Yep.

Obviously. We have gotten to our third film. Only her third film. Only her third film. And this is the one where I'd say it all starts totally clicking. Yeah. This is where she's ensconced in Vestron, that great Hollywood studio. Deep in home video company turns short-lived

theatrical production company Vestron. And it's a movie that fucking rules. Spoiler alert. It fucking rules. Great movie. Called Blue Steel. And of course, this episode is brought to you by

Mack Weldon. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. We're making money now, baby. Yeah. Thank you, Mack Weldon. You. Yeah, that's right. We're making money now, baby. Yeah. Thank you, Mack Weldon. You see that Reddit post where people were like,

how can we help the two friends make money? We'll tell you. Believe me. Oh, yeah. It involves a promo code. Oh, get ready. Yeah.

I'm very excited. We have a guest who we've been trying to get. We've been trying to have on for a little while now. I like how you're holding up the mug. It really makes it feel like we're in like daytime radio. I feel very you're holding up the mug. It really makes it feel like we're in daytime radio.

I feel very professional now. We got sponsors. They're watching. They're watching. They're watching. And they're listening. But that's the thing. People know they're listening because it's a podcast.

But our sponsors are watching, which is why I need to have good arm, good angles on this coffee mug. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have a wonderful guest who we've been trying to get on. He was supposed to be on the Interstellar episode. Griffin got sent to Australia. Time dilation got in the way of the Interstellar one. We knew the math. We knew

the theory. And you were sending us some hot takes through the bookshelf during the episode. I was trying to. Have you checked your analog watches? Because it's clicking the way I want you to. I was trying to. The walls shook every time. Have you checked your analog watches? Because it's clicking the way I want you to give my... There's a hot take in here. Yeah.

Hot tick. Hey. Hey, now. No, I didn't mean tick. I said tick like a watch. But tick also. But let's also... We're also sponsored this episode by the tick.

Yeah. Our guest today, he is a podcast host himself. True. Of Engage, the official Star Trek podcast. That's right. That's right. It's a big time for Star Trek fans, let me tell you. None of this unofficial bullshit.

No. We're at peak Star Trek right now, and you're the man officially guiding everyone. That's true. That's true. I am the host of Engage, the official Star Trek podcast. And he's a film critic himself. Jordan Hoffman, thank you so much for being on the show. Hey, listen.

It's lovely to have you. It's love. It's love all around. Yeah. I've got my arms extended right now. I'm embracing everyone listening. Now, this is one of the lesser known, more forgotten Catherine Bigelow movies. Oh, yeah.

It is. And when Mr. Sims said to me, oh, we're doing Bigelow next. Right. Because we tried to have you on for Nolan. He said, are there oh, we're doing Bigelow next. Right. Because we tried to have you on for Nolan. Are there any of these that jump out to you? And I suggested Near Dark to you just because it's a genre picture. I thought you might have a take, but you were like, eh. Yeah.

I haven't seen Near Dark. Or maybe you had like 20 years ago, whatever. Yeah. But I know Catherine Bigelow has made films that people really love. Sure. Your Hurt Lockers. Hurt Lockers, quite good has made films that people really love. Sure. Like that. Your Hurt Lockers. Hurt Lockers, quite good.

Zero Dark Thirty is really good. What's the one with Patrick Swayze? Point Break. Point Break is really good. Yeah. But for me, it's all about Ron Silver. Yeah. Doing his... His crunches.

His crunches. Oh. He's talking to... Jordan has raised his arms twice now. Ron Silver is talking to the voices in his head that want him to kill. He don't like those voices. I'll say this too. I watched this movie.

I had not seen it before last night. And I was just like, oh, this could be like a solid Bigelow B picture. Right. I figured I was going to watch an OK Cop movie. Right. Yeah. And I watched this and I was like, this is kind like a solid like bigelow b picture right i figured i was gonna watch an okay cop movie right yeah and i watched this and i was like this is kind of the urtex like this movie contains everything i like about katherine bigelow as a filmmaker it's the one that unifies all the different threads all the different stylistic moves you know it is uh yeah it's a great it is elevated cop movie yeah to use the phrase that everyone hates right now. Yes. Elevated horror. This is elevated,

like it is, it's a cop movie. It's like this, this plot is really simple. But I also like that it's kind of a horror movie. It is a horror movie. Like it's a slasher film,

weirdly. Jamie Lee Curtis is not in it by accident. I mean, it's, it's, it's a, Ron Silver becomes Michael Myers

by the end of the story. I read back to Roger Ebert's review and he said, this is actually the best Halloween sequel that's ever been made. Like this is the grown up version of Halloween. Well right and also

I think just thinking of Bigelow's later career I think I was expecting more of like a shoe leather NYPD movie about like you know

life on the force and she's a new cop and instead like almost immediately it dispenses with any like realism. Yeah the only realism in the movie

is on the floor of the stock exchange those shots are done handheld sure and those shots are great i mean it's no trading places don't get me wrong but it's done really well you could see ron silver flipping out selling soy futures or whatever the hell he's doing yeah and those shots really have some grit everything else has got the sheen can Can put Mr. Ridley Scott to shame. It's true. And this is when Ridley Scott's really struggling. You put this up against his New York picture at the time, someone to watch over me.

I take this any day of the week. But I'll say, you can even compare 90s Bigelow to 80s Tony Scott, right? Yeah. Who was pioneering a lot of these, this sort of visual language. The hunger in this are very right simpatico but i feel like there's a weight to the images in this movie that feels like a real evolutionary step beyond the like stylization of the 80s with like the atmos and the the shallow focus and the crazy lighting yes and the color filters and all that it has all of that but it has one thing that those other movies

don't have, which is a very new and unique and instantly sympathetic character in Jamie Lee Curtis, who you're 12 seconds in this movie, like, I support her

because she's alone. She's the only woman graduating from the police academy. Parents aren't there because we'll find out why later. Right.

And I want her to succeed. And the man, literally and figuratively, will not let her. Will not let her. Right. And I want her to succeed. And the man literally and figuratively will not let her. Will not let her. Right. It's a glass ceiling movie. For sure. And it's a movie that like,

the thing that's so great about the movie, we've been talking a lot about tension with Bigelow because she really is a tension filmmaker, right? All of her movies are based around playing off of some kind of tension, both within the scenes and the larger narrative and this is a movie where so much of the tension comes from the fact

that every single scene would play differently if she were a man like you feel this frustration her body and like the threat there's sort of threat in the air and like her body is invaded so many times in this movie mostly people pushing her people sort of threat in the air like and like her body is invaded so many times

in this movie mostly you know people pushing her people sort of getting in her space but also how people interact with her on a scene by scene basis

you just feel this frustration of like the audience is so on board with this character and the movie is not taking her seriously you know or the other people

in the movie right right right oh yeah like Clancy Brown it takes him a really long time to treat her as an equal and then he stups her right with Oh, yeah, like Clancy Brown. It takes him a really long time to treat her as an equal. Right. And then he stups her. Right. With his tongue.

Yeah. There's so much. Spoilers. But there's some serious tongue stupping in this movie. Wait, wait. Let's back it up a minute. Sure. Yes.

Because you're right. There are a lot. There have been some recent films that are like kind of like cop movies or action movies where like the only one that's coming to mind right now is Assault with Angela. And the whole shtick was like it was written for a guy but then a woman stepped in it didn't change the movie at all yeah that's not the case with this at all this is about a police woman right uh from you know it wouldn't work as a rookie cop who makes a mistake in a supermarket you could make that movie you could but it's not that that I think the arc that this character goes through and the incidents that happen to her

and around her are very specific to her gender and I think Catherine Bigelow above all else because she gets pegged a lot as oh this woman who makes these films about masculinity which I think is like she's good at that she found a niche doing that she played into that niche well

but I think the bigger thing is she just has a very very keen take on the differences behaviorally between the genders. Yeah. And the iconography leans the hell into it. The opening credit scene, it's all, I don't want to say what it is. They look like guns going in holsters, but you can tell me what they are. Do we have anybody with an English lit degree, David, who can tell me what that symbolizes? You're talking about pee-pees and vajay-cheese.

There's a lot of that. Jordan, you're talking about putting pee-pees and vajay-cheese? There's a lot of penis stuff going on in this movie. Sure. Yes. There's a lot of Ron Silver not knowing what to do with his penis, being obsessed with the fact that his girlfriend, Jamie Lee Curtis, seems to know what to do with a penis substitute more than he does.

Right, that he is transfixed by the idea of a gun. His character is all impotent rage. And the fact that this movie is like, here's another thing, okay? So it's like, this isn't just a movie starring a policewoman, it's a movie about a policewoman, right? Sure.

This also isn't a movie that happens to have a lot of gun violence. It's a movie about guns. Yeah in a really fascinating way this is a movie about loading a revolver things like that the weird sexual thrill that comes with it some condemn this film for being a little too fetishistic sure yes it definitely has that almost at times which i think is a problem that she has run into many times in her career where she loves those details and it's like gets so fixated

on them and people see it as like somewhat pornographic right I mean which I think is great there's a very early in the film when she just after the graduation just after the opening title sequence she's getting dressed in the locker room with the lights coming in and what not putting on the shirt,

bending over the bra. It's shot like aliens. Yeah. It's shot like boom, boom, you know, shoes, the harness,

that. And, you know, when it's a science fiction movie, it's a whole different world, so to speak, than this. It's like,

you know, what are we glamorizing here? NYPD in the late 80s, early 90s. But I kind of love, I mean, A, the way she plays with iconography,

everything has such a weight, excuse me, and importance in this movie. Like, every single shot in this movie feels iconic. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's so gorgeous. Because it's so deliberate, and there's such a texture to every single image, I find. Like, it's not just style for style's sake. Like, she's playing in this weird sphere

where it's simultaneously incredibly heightened but also super grounded. A lot of that is Jamie Lee Curtis, who I think is doing some unbelievable, like, underplaying in every scene. If you were Jamie Lee Curtis, would this be the movie you're most proud of in the whole career? I think this is the best I've ever seen her be. I mean, she should be very proud, certainly, of being in A Fish Called Wanda, which is a masterpiece. But she's in the ensemble. Right. Halloween is fine.

Halloween's great. But, you know, it's a wonderful movie. That she is. No, Halloween's great. It's fine, but it's not about her. No, I mean, she is better than, you know, a lot of actresses are in that role. But, yes, it would be a little. I think even she'd probably think it'd be a little silly for people to think of that

as her quote unquote best performance right but you know we talked about when we did our True Lies episode for Cameron

how weird her sort of career was where it was like the Halloween arc and then she has Trading Places right after that and then for a while

she was like a big star but she didn't have any things that really fit she's great in True Lies I mean that's later I'm sorry but then that was kind of like

a second wave sort of thing. And then she goes into like comedy mom sort of territory. She is fantastic in Freaky Friday. Actually, that is a genuinely sensitive and three-dimensional comic performance. And she got very close to getting an Oscar. She did. She's very good at that movie. I mean, because she's talented.

But we're saying, look, she's had a great career. She's been in a lot of classics. She's been in a lot of classics. You know, she's been in a lot of movies that had cultural importance. She's done a lot of really good work and whatever. But it does feel like this movie should have been

the start of a phase in her career that didn't totally kickstart. But remember what she's doing right when this movie comes out. Or did you, you might remember. About 19,

this is after Fish Called Wanda. This is after Fish Called Wanda. This is after Trading Places, right? Because Trading Places is, I Called Wanda this is after Trading Places right because Trading Places yes Fish Called Wanda was I want to say 88

because Trading Places is 83 yeah Fish Called Wanda actually let me find it I think it's 87 it's 88 right but in 89

she starts on a sitcom called Anything But Love that nobody ever remembers but ran for four seasons wait is that the one with Richard Lewis yes

you know not a I was really into richard lewis at the time richard lewis is great and i was i was an anything but love apologist sure sure that show is pretty nothing it's it's a sitcom it's not good it's not good but i would watch it a lot waiting for the real richard lewis to show up and there would be like one joke per episode. Right. There would be like one funny thing and I would watch it every week.

And then I stopped because then that one funny thing a week became one funny thing every two weeks. Right, right, right. But it ran for 56 episodes. I had zero clue that she was on a sitcom for four years after becoming a movie star. Yeah, exactly.

And it's sort of, but it's obvious like when you're looking at her resume, you know, obviously she's in Halloween, The Fog, Prom Night, Terror Train, Escape from New York. You know, well,

she's not in Escape from New York. That's a voice, but you know, Halloween 2 where so she's the scream queen, right? And then she's in trading places and people are like, oh my God.

And she's in like Perfect, which is really, oh right, they're a couple 80s. Not a good movie, but sort of a sex symbol movie. And Fresh Called Wanda. A lot of these are bad, though, like A Man in Love.

What's A Man in Love? I have no idea. She's barely. She's like the third lead in that. Let's see. Amazing Grace and Chuck. Is that a Mike Newell movie? Like I've never heard of some of these movies.

But doesn't it feel like you watch this and you go like, this should have become the Jamie Lee Curtis archetype. Right. And instead after this, she's like the mom in my girl. You know what I mean? Like she gets shunted over. And then True Lies,

she gets to ultimately play this at the end of the movie, but a lot of it's a deconstruction of that. Right. But she's definitely playing on the more like. By the end of the movie, she gets to own the full Jamie Lee Curtis thing. This movie was not a big hit. It was a flop was because it was vestron like you said it became respected it showed on cable and then when point blank when point break comes out people like people

retroactively liked it that's when i saw it i saw it on tv after point break yeah no because this movie was barely released right like Because it was acquired by MGM after Vestro went bankrupt and they dumped it out in March. And quite frankly, this movie on paper should not be as good as it is. It's good for two reasons,

Jamie Lee Curtis and Bigelow. She directed the shit out of it. I mean, the script's smart, but pretty functional. The script is functional, but they get stupid at the end. They get really stupid. It gets dumb. The script is functional. They get stupid at the end. It gets really stupid. It gets dumb.

How does he find her in the subway at the end? Like, New York's a big town. I don't know if you've ever been to New York, but like she goes, she leaves the hospital. I will find Mr. Ron Silver somewhere in this little burg of New York City. And she goes on the subway and he's there. I like that it gets a little supernatural at the end of the movie because I think it gets a little non-literal.

I think it's non-literal from the beginning because he's not a diagnosable thing. It's not like he has some sort where they're like, oh, this is a classic case a guy picks up a gun and pours all of his 80s American psycho rage into it. The Wikipedia page

refers to him as a futures trader who also turns out to be a latent psychopath. A commodities trader who is a latent psychopath. That's kind of reductive. There's more going on here. It's also what he was just a successful commodities trader and then at age 33

he's like, you know what? Shooting people in the street. That's what I'm going to it's a little ridiculous and then what also is extremely annoying is um he's being seized by demons and like he's like yeah he's talking to himself and he goes and kills but then 20 minutes later he's like the most crafty mustache twirling fellow when his lawyer shows up and he's like, Oh, how could I have been there? I have the perfect alibi. The great Richard Jenkins. But see, I think,

Oh God, this movie went in the opening credits. If we could just start at the beginning, the opening credits of this movie, I think I just six different times because I was watching this and I was like, okay, Jamie Lee Curtis, I know is in this movie,

right? Ron Silver, I know is in this movie. Oh, you're saying the credits. It's like Clancy Brown, Elizabeth Pena, Richard Jenkins, Philip Bosco, Kevin Dunn, Tom Sizemore. He's're saying the credits it's like Clancy Brown Elizabeth Pena Richard Jenkins

Philip Bosco Kevin Dunn Tom Sizemore he's not in the credits I'm losing my mind Griffin can I tell you remember when I came in this morning Louise Fletcher's in this fucking movie Academy Award winner Star Trek connection yeah right of course she's uh what god what the hell's her name Kai Wynn Adama of course then even just getting like Mike Starr coming in as the superintendent for two lines. Give me some good character actor, Piccolo. Griffin, let me tell you a tale. Sure. Please, regale me. About Richard Jenkins.

The great Richard Jenkins. A few short weeks ago, I was in the city of Toronto with your friend and partner, David Sims. I have goosebumps right now. Already. I just know I'm going to get a good Jenkins tale. We're seated. It's not that good. Let me reel it in. If it's about Jenkins, then it's good. I like how you now. Already. I just know I'm going to get a good Jenkins tale when I get goosebumps. It's not that good. Let me reel it in. If it's about Jenkins, then it's good. I like how you're telling the story, though. We're seated

at the Elgin Theater. Very nice theater. Which is beautiful. What are you going to see? And where they shot scenes from the movie in. We were there to see the North American premiere of The Shape of Water, which had played days earlier at the Venice Film Festival

and had come away with The Golden Lion. And my boy Jenks crushes in that movie. How do you say Golden Lion in Italian? The Abruzzo Glozio.

Correct. So, Five Italian points. Leone d'Oro. Leone d'Oro. And so, we're seated in the Elgin Theater, which is old theater you know it's so it's one of these old theaters that used to have more of these they have very few now it's a double-decker

theater you know a double-decker bus this is a double-decker theater it's a full broadway house yeah you take four escalators up there's a second broadway house on top called the winter garden i know which is also kind of a cool thing yeah because that's got like it's got weird trees inside it leaves plastic grapes are everywhere I saw on Chesil Beach in that theater it was poorly matched

humble brag but we're down in the bottom and it's opening night there are some and some people there are in gowns tuxes people are amped people I'm Jordan's in cargo

shorts I'm wearing I'm like a schlub and he's wearing a Def Leppard t-shirt or something but we're sitting next to one another to my right is Mr. Davidson's.

Your partner in podcasting. To my left is another colleague of ours. And the show is about to start. Unnamed. Yes. So the show is about to start. Okay.

And before that then first of all the mayor of Toronto comes out. Mayor of Toronto comes out to introduce it and I'm like fuck can we just start the movie already? And it's not the crack smoking mayor

because he's died. No he's dead. It's the other one. So there's a new mayor in town. It's not his brother because his brother's now running. His brother's not the crack smoking mayor because he's died. He's dead. It's the other one. So there's a new mayor in town. It's not his brother because his brother's now running.

His brother's like a councilman. No, it's some nice thin white guy in a suit. He was like this movie Shape of Water it was shot in Toronto.

It is Toronto. The essence of Toronto is in this film. The crowd's seething with anticipation. Sure. But you know Sims and I we're working man. We don't have time to get the movie. I'm like seeing another movie of Toronto's in this film. The crowd's seething with anticipation. Sure. But, you know,

Sims and I, we're working, man. We don't have time. We're like clocking at the movie. I'm like seeing another movie after this movie. I don't want to see this little circle jerk of Toronto. I want to see the movie.

Let's get started. Got my notebook out. So then, they bring out the cast and crew. Producers comes out. Light applause. Yeah. The cast comes out.

Michael Stuhlbarg. Hey. Yeah, nice. Who's the woman? Michael Shannon. Michael Shannon. just comes out light applause yeah uh the cast comes out michael stuhlbarg hey uh yeah nice um um who's the one michael shannon octavia spencer john we're all like yeah nice nice nice okay and by the way i didn't really know who was in this movie because i don't pay attention to these things and then um and sims and i are just like yeah yeah come on start the movie octavia yeah nice and gear was up there he's having fun he's sort of emceeing. He brings out and we'd also like to bring out a

wonderful man, Mr. Richard Jenkins. So out walks Richard Jenkins and to my right is David Sims. And if this was a movie, the screen would have vignetted on him. Yeah, there would be like a tracking zoom shot of me. If it

was Snapchatchat hearts would have flown out of his head and he did two things simultaneously i have to do the line reading okay i have to give you a line reading at first he cooed like he was seeing an infant and then he downshifted into thunderous approbation in which he went he saw richard and David Sims went, oh, look at him. And then without missing a beat, he went, oh, look at him. And then he just bolted up right and said, he is a God. And it was, I've never seen a human being react that way. To a guy fucking walking out on stage.

It'd be like, hey. Cooing like he saw an infant and then seeing enlightened divinity before his eyes can I tell you my favorite Ricky Jenks story go go Richard J I mean he's got three scenes in this movie this is not off topic he's in Blue Steel

it's crazy when he walks in I was like oh maybe we'll see young Richard Jenkins a bald guy walks in in his suit and you oh, maybe we'll see young Richard Jenkins. A bald guy walks in in his suit and you're like, ah, I guess he was born 45 years old. The youngest thing I remember seeing Ricky Jenkins in is Hannah and Her Sisters. And even in that. Right. Which is just a couple of years or right around the same time as this. He plays the doctor who diagnoses.

I mean, he's 70. He's 70 years old. He wears it well. He wears it well. Yeah. God. I mean, he's 70. He's 70 years old. He wears it well. He wears it well. Yeah. God, he's... Maybe, maybe for my money, best eyes in cinema. Wow.

Do you know what I'm saying? He's got incredible... He's got Richard Jenkins eyes. Is that what you're saying? Hannah and Her Sisters is his second film credit. So it's about his versus Silverado. Wow. Tiny role in Silverado.

Chaps, no doubt. So my favorite Richard Jenkins story, it's an anecdote, but when Entertainment Weekly does their issue after the Oscar nominations come out and they do their little profile of each of the acting nominees and they always ask him how they found out, how they got the news. Sure. So he was nominated for The Visitor. Is that what it's called?

Right, for The Visitor. The white guy plays the bongos. A movie I don't like. It's okay. But I have always argued that he should have been nominated that same year for Step Brothers. He should have been nominated Best Supporting Actor for Step Brothers, which is maybe his finest performance ever. In an amazing body of work. But they said, like, so how do you get the news?

And he said, my son-in-law's father called me at like noon and was like, hey, congrats. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I was like, on what? And he was like, you got nominated for the Oscar. So the two things to infer from that are, Richard Jenkins has a really good relationship with his son-in-law's

father. Which is so on brand. Right. Essentially his sort of brother-in-law-in-law. There's a Jewish term for that that's called the mishpocha right it's the son-in-law's father is the mishpocha to you

100% so I love that Richard Jenkins loves his mishpocha but I also love that no one remembered the call from Richard Jenkins right his agent wasn't like

Richard 25 years in this industry you finally got a fucking Oscar nomination. He's a leading actor. Yeah, yeah. You're there. In a competitive year, you're competing with Mickey Rourke and Sean Penn.

He snuck in there. Right. Maybe they called him the wrong line. He's got a special line, just that he likes on a Saturday. He's genuinely not one of those guys who's up at six in the morning watching the live feed and being like,

Maybe it wasn't all the way down to noon, but it was maybe like 8 a.m. when the nominations are at like 7 a.m. and he just said like his 5.30 a.m.

his mishpuka am I pronouncing that correctly? You're doing very well. Okay. Called him and just casually was like oh Rick by the way congrats.

Yeah. Like he wasn't even calling to deliver the news. He was like Richard I've got great news for you. Right. I guess they call every morning to talk about the newspaper

or whatever. Did you see the Mets last night? My favorite Jenkins is flirting with disaster. That's an unbeatable funny performance. He is such a funny actor. You know what I also think? But you know, he's a bad guy in this. Yes, he is.

Yeah, no, he tries to melt steel beams in this. I mean, the blue steel. I don't know where that came from. I'm sorry melt steel beam he tries to uh he's he's actually the baddest guy other than runs he is he is exploiting right well silver's silver's psycho it's not his fault right where he is exploiting every institutional sort of like uh thing he's a scummy lawyer and he's a scummy lawyer i mean he's a common type

in an 80s crime movie. But like, beyond the pale and so slick and so, but also while being so like frumpy and Jenkins-y and whatever,

I would argue his entrance is the moment when the movie shifts into a different gear and becomes very representational. Because then I feel like

she starts fighting not Ron Silver but like unchecked male ego. Sure. Like the movie just like ratchets and then it's like he becomes supernatural. He becomes Michael Myers.

He can show up anywhere. He is unstoppable. No one can catch him. It's also the part in the movie when I was watching my wife she's like, this is dumb. It's when it breaks reality.

I love it. It breaks reality. But it's fine. I like it. I argued with her. But like this is the kind of reality breaking. Humble brag.

Right before recording this episode, David, Ben and I. David, producer Ben and I. David, producer Ben and I. David, the Ben-ducer and I. David, the poet laureate and I. David, birthday Benny and I. David, dirt bike Benny and I. David, the Haas and I. David, Mr. Haasative and I. David Dirt Bike Benny and I. David the Haas and I.

David Mr. Haasative and I. David the Meat Lover and I. David the Fart Detective and I. David the Fuckmaster and I. That's my favorite one. David and I, but not Professor Crispy. Right. No. We're guest speakers at my father's class at NYU.

My father's a professor at NYU and he needed guest speakers, and so we talked about podcasting to his class. They're graduate students at NYU. They're Tisch graduate students. They're about to have their own sort of, you know, diplomas on their wall. So we had to tell them that Ben has graduated to certain titles over the course of different miniseries, such as Kylo, Ben, producer Ben Kenobi,

Say Ben-y-thing, Ben Knight Shyamalan, Ben Sate, Ailey Benz with a dollar sign, Warhaz and Perdue Urbane. We had to let them know that. Yeah. Yeah. Your job as a guest speaker

is to give them a sense of what they have to look forward to. We're doing great, Griff. We're doing great. We talked about Mother a lot. We did. Yeah, no, Mother's a good movie.

I like that. So I don't like Mother. Oh, all right. And my biggest struggle with Mother is I think you don't have a grounding character. Like in this movie. No anchor in Mother. Right. And.

No anchor in life. I agree with you. I do agree with that. I do agree. I must say. I do agree with that. Uh-huh. But I feel like Curtis in this movie, as you said, you immediately understand the struggle of her daily

life. She is so relatable. You're rooting for her so fucking hard. Whereas, I think by design, Lawrence is just kind of a cipher and a victim and represents a larger point in that movie rather than being a real person.

And you were not immediately oriented to her wavelength. You're kind of like the beginning of Mother, you're like, where the F am I? It's very hard to read her. Now she is innately, agreed, agreed, innately a very

empathetic performer so that like helps you connect to the movie and the movie also puts her through fucking awful bullshit. So it's like, if you have any sense

of human decency, you're made uncomfortable by what you're watching. If you've ever tried to brace a sink, you're gonna... Which is tough, let me tell you.

Bracing that sink. uh but that for me that grounding makes the other elements in the film which are more representational more terrifying and and that works for me here yes you know that i feel like jenkins once he enters it's like fuck this guy's invincible now because he's got this lawyer right he's got the law like it's gonna it's gonna come down to what the movie ends with which is a shootout which is like a Sergio Leone shootout right on Wall Street with a pretzel cart right he's hiding behind a subrette kosher hot dog cart right and she's hijacking a car or something like that right but it's like this movie becomes not her fighting one guy because this one guy would be easier to stop

it becomes her fighting like unchecked male, like ego run rampant. But also, if I can pull it back a little. Please do. I mean, so, you know, obviously the opening credits are over her reciting the NYPD pledge. And Bigelow's just fucking weaving images like none other.

Agreed, agreed. But just to hold on to your point that you guys are making. You know, basically the first thing she does is a cop she's in a convenience store she stumbles across a robbery tom sizemore who was just he was he wasn't his first role yeah he was he wasn't part of the movie he was just robbing a convenience store she shot him um you know my favorite version of that where katherine bigelow was like let's just get the cameras in there yeah my favorite version of that joke, and I love that joke. I've cited before.

It's a great joke. Right. The Pete's Dragon. Whoever tweeted after Pete's Dragon. Joe Reed tweeted. The great Joe Reed tweeted. I love Pete's Dragon, but it was a little cruel of the filmmakers not to tell Robert Redford that he was in a movie. There's always a great joke. There are dragons in these woods.

But no, the other ones that I love the other one that I love I don't I think this was a friend who made this to me casually but maybe it was in a review Envy the Barry Levinson movie

oh sure Ben Stiller Jack Black right a weird film very weird there's a moment two thirds of the way through the film

when they're driving a car in the middle of a dialogue scene and they hit Christopher Walken who's crossing the street and then the last third of the movie becomes about Christopher Walken and someone claimed that it was just like

they hit him and were like, fuck, this movie's not working. Let's go with whatever Walken's doing. Like the movie literally crashes into Walken and he just hijacks it. That is... Yes.

Tom Sizemore at this time was a wool cap convenience store bandit. They had the cameras rolling. It was a Sloan's. It was a, it was a, you know,

they don't have Sloan's in New York anymore. It was, it was somewhere. This was a chain? Okay. Sloan's was a mini chain in Manhattan

that was halfway between a convenience store and a supermarket. Sure, sure, sure. I used, when I was in college,

we used to buy 12 packs of Stroh's beer there. So to talk New York. For like nothing, for not much money. To talk New York and New York specific, you'd say it's halfway between a Duane Reade and So to talk New York. For like nothing, for not much money. To talk New York and New York specific, you'd say it's halfway

between a Duane Reade and a Gristidis. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, we're talking here. Only real New Yorkers will like this episode. But you know, that scene though.

Well, that scene, we can talk about that scene, but just to, I can't barely remember what my point was, but she shoots him for robbing a convenience store and having a gun

and pointing it at her. And yes, the gun disappears. Well, Ron store and having a gun and pointing it at her. And yes, the gun disappears. Well, Ron Silver takes it. Ron Silver takes it. Yes. But still, any cop, like, you know, like she can't even perform the basic sort of function of a cop, the male function of a cop. Which is to plant evidence. Sure.

Well, that's true. Like immediately she's called into question because they don't buy it like oh the gun disappeared yeah sure it disappeared lady I think you were probably like oh you were having a fit of the vapors and you saw an imaginary gun. It becomes a he said she said and you see them questioning everything she's doing. And it's like he said she said he was pointing a gun at a fucking cash guy

like the cash register man. And you're just watching the movie and you go like they would never treat Gene Hackman like this. They would never treat Mickey Rourke like this. Like that's. Mickey Rourke like this. But you want to talk about that scene. Well, she's not part of the club. Clancy Brown goes in there to tell a lewd joke, doesn't even see her sitting there. Yes.

Clancy Brown, fantastic in this movie, by the way. But that scene, the way that scene plays out is kind of like, here's a scene that's a thesis for the entire movie. Yeah. It's like this guy comes in, doesn't even notice that she physically exists in the space sure right hijacks the movie for 90 seconds to make a gross blowjob joke then takes note of her and is like shut the fuck up it's it immediately shuts her down it's a great way to it's a great way to get you in the audience to feel enraged right and you sympathize with her so much and um what i wanted to say though about the the the scene in the supermarket though, is just the way that it's shot because,

um, I, you know, Michael Mann could do no better. It's just got the, the, the look of it is so great. It's very bright,

very, very bright, harsh fluorescent, harsh fluorescent has all the, the, um, brands. You got like the old logos of brands,

which I love in movies. Um, and the blood when she shoots him is like bright red, really like arterial. This movie has incredible squibs. Yeah. A lot of slow motion shooting. Yeah.

And, you know, even though she is protecting herself, she does kind of unload three. Well, that's the thing. And she's got a hand cannon. Like, you know, like shoots the shit out of him. Yeah.

She doesn't just nick him. She blows him away. You guys want to know a story about NYPD revolvers? Please. From my days as a union reporter. Yes. So the NYPD used to carry a six-shooter revolver for, like, many, many years. Well past the time that, like, semi-automatic pistols were available.

Because it's impossible to get anything changed union-wise and equipment-wise. And then the transit cops got 15 bullet clocks, like what the cops all care. And when that happened, the NYPD were like, oh, all the cops started protesting. Hey, we got shittier guns

than the train cops. Well, they got to be faster than speeding bullet. Yeah, right. So now they have these guns where you can just empty a magazine in a few seconds. But yeah, she's got an old-fashioned,

giant.44 revolver but i do feel like there's a thing this is what i miss about bigelow working in sort of a heightened genre space and i understand that became like a little bit of an albatross around her neck in terms of not being taken fully seriously as a filmmaker so once she had the opportunity to free herself of those shackles, she did. But I think she is one of those people where like, this movie is so good at playing into all the stuff we like about these genre movies,

being fetishistic, being super stylized, but then immediately like deconstructing, commenting on it. We're like, you have this scene where she shoots him too many times. The blood explodes way too much. It's in slow motion.

It looks fucking gorgeous. And then immediately she's called into an office and they're like, you didn't need to shoot the guy four times. The blood explodes way too much. It's in slow motion. It looks fucking gorgeous. And then immediately she's called into an office and they're like, you didn't need to shoot the guy four times. But like, of course in a movie you do

because it has to be like exciting and thrilling. How many times has Dirty Harry done the same thing? Right. But that's the thing. If she's Gene Hackman, like you said,

I don't think they're like, jeez, you're really unloaded on that guy. You know, come on, one shot wasn't enough? It's a hell of a thing. And I think that this movie, and you know come on one shot wasn't enough it's uh it's a hell

of a thing and i think that this movie and you know we're three dudes talking about well that's the thing feminist implications of this film but be that as it may i think that this movie is at least more up front about its quote-unquote feminist aspects than zero dark 30 is yeah which never which goes out of its way to not talk about that and just be the movie and steamroll through its plot sure you can read in she's the motherfucker who found right yeah yeah i mean you can read into it all you want but yes but it's not on the surface the way it is here and and i don't think to the movie's detriment at all i think that if this movie like if katherine bigelow changed careers after this movie it wouldn't be as well remembered as it is now because bigelow went on

to do great things win the Oscar. But I do think that this is the type of movie that once in a while would show at you know the Quad

or the Alamo Draft House or something and everybody would be like oh man I love that one have you never seen the Jamie Lee Curtis one? This feels like the movie to be rediscovered

and when we were at the NYU class and we were talking about doing Bigelow and we said like we're doing Blue Steel right now has anyone seen Blue Steel? No one

I was like it's this great Catherine Bigelow movie Jamie Lee Curtis and everyone was like huh I didn't know that existed but it does feel like this turning point where you imagine if this movie had connected and not even if it had been a huge hit but if it had done maybe 25% better than it did that this would have sort of cast a die for the

next 8 years of Bigelow and Jamie Lee Curtis this would have been a new phase in Jamie the next eight years of Bigelow and Jamie Lee Curtis. Yeah. This would have been a new phase in Jamie Lee Curtis's career. And I also think it's not coincidental that after this, Catherine Bigelow doesn't really do another female-led movie until Zero Dark Thirty, which is far less overt. I mean, Shape of Water kind of, but Shape of Water is such a weird fucking all over the place.

Weight of Water, sorry. Right, right. You're fucking all over the place. Weight of water, sorry. Right, right. But I think there was a perception of like, this movie was ghettoized. It's like, well, people don't like action movies about women,

which every 10 years someone would try to make one and it would be discounted. And then they go, well, you can't make, you know, it's Elektra. You can't do this. Right, right. And that is unfortunate because I suspect that the lack of success this movie had had more to do with his distribution model.

The fact that Best Brom was bought by something else. I think, right, this movie was just doomed. But I also think that Jamie Lee Curtis, yeah, she was a weird star. They did struggle to have her open movies. There is a cool aspect of this film that I really like. And I want to talk to you and to the audience about gender fluidity in this film. Okay. Shoot.

Colon. Because it's a theme, right? Yes. I mean, we talked a little bit about the guns and the penis envy and his schlong and all the mishegas there. And Jamie Lee Curtis does have a masculine face yes you know that's part of her allure right ron silver wearing a lot of makeup in this film does yes and sort of almost bronze the close-up the big scene where he's like getting all hot and bothered put your gun on me baby you know that all which is not really the actual line but no but i mean not far off um

there's club there's shot reverse shot and she's looking very masculine and he's got big luscious red lips and some eye shadow yeah and he wants her to point the gun at him yeah and pretend to shoot him because he's like he can't understand how to use this thing right like sort of i mean right that's sort of the idea do you think people got got freaked out by that is that maybe why it didn't get the reaction back? It was 1990. It was a long time ago. For sure. This movie is weird. People might have been going in and being like,

Lady cop. I get it. She's a lady. She's a cop. Lady cop. I get it. And then Ron Silver's in there and he's like, No. No. He's like a super villain where his origin story is he saw a sexy woman fire a gun once and it broke his mind. You know like truly he sees

this woman walk in, this movie star enter a convenience store, shoot a gun three times and he never is able to like recover from that. It's like a kid who reads his first Wonder Woman comic and can't handle it. Right. I mean here's a thing that I find interesting about

this movie is you look at like 70s, 80s, 90s cop movies, right? That's sort of like this three decade period where cop movies are like a really big sub-genre before it starts to like wane, right? I would say. And the sort of seedy cop movie,

let's say, right? Right, right. Sort of the anti-hero cop. The anti-hero cop movie. And I feel like you have two types of cop movies. You have, like, the cop who's going through some sort of personal life crisis that somehow mirrors the case, which becomes the, like, obsession. Sidney Lumet's Prince in the City. Exactly.

Or even, like, something like you know, French Connection where there's not, like, an overt life crisis but he's, like, a fucking mess of a guy who's just obsessed and committed to this one fucking thing. Right. And he's, like an overt life crisis but he's like a fucking mess of a guy who's just obsessed and committed to this one fucking thing. Right.

And he's like a dirty sloppy cop literally dirty. But that's what old cop movies are often where it's like this guy lives in a goddamn shithole

he has a pork pie hat and he's just like you do the crime you know like it's before the sort of hero cop. So then that's the other one is the like super stylized

hero cop this guy can do no wrong even if he's a little unconventional. Crime is disease, meet the cure. Right. This guy's going to fucking like take. And you think this is sort of like an in-between? I think, yeah. I think it's doing like a third thing that doesn't exist.

It's existing in this weird gray area. And I think the opening scene in this movie, you see the credits. They're very fucking stylized. You have all the like, you know, money shots. It's like, okay, this is just going to be a cop thriller, right? This is just going to be Jamie Lee Curtis

placed into some sort of, you know, Pacino cop movie or whatever it is. Right. You know, like a middling kind of like sea of love or whatever, right?

And then you go to the opening sequence, which plays out exactly how you would expect this movie to play out. Jamie Lee Curtis is going down the hallway. She's got the gun.

She kicks through the door. There's the sort of junkie couple. She takes the guy down. She tries talking to the woman. The woman takes out her gun. It's the Kobayashi Maru scene. It's the Kobayashi Maru. Right.

It's the beginning of Monsters, Inc. Yes. You know? Oh, this was all a test. It's also, she makes two movies in a row that basically start with a training sequence. Because Point Break starts with Ke yes shooting the targets and then going but this is we're dealing with the type of scene you expect to see at the beginning of this cop movie yeah and then it goes like no this is fake this itself is a fiction yeah well especially right that sort of ridiculous like like no it's me or her like you know you can't shoot me i have a human shield

like that sort of very movie and the way the reality breaks is like Kurt's going like oh fuck yeah it's such a great pullback I would say it's almost as good as Star Trek 2 the way they pull it back but it's a great like oh whoopsie and it's so human because it almost feels like

you're watching outtakes where she's like fuck I missed my line I'm sorry she immediately realizes what she's done wrong. She didn't take the woman seriously as a threat. Yes. In the situation. You're right. You're right.

I didn't catch that. I'm a dunce. Yeah, you're totally right. Of course. She was concentrating on the guy. Right. And then it turns out the woman has a gun too. How did I miss the most?

That's the movie in micro. Yes. And I'm allegedly a film critic and I did not catch that. Well, we're a bunch of dumb idiots. That's the thing I love about this movie. This movie has a lot of scenes like that. Like the Clancy Brown blowjob story scene where the whole scene represents the movie in micro. You know, like all the things it's

dealing with. We should point out that Bigelow co-wrote the script. She did with Eric Redd who she also writes Point Break with. Right. Eric the Redd? Eric the Redd. Terry Jones' Eric the Redd. Yeah, he uh, he can't, Terry Jones is Eric. The red. He came back from, uh, you know,

conquest in Greenland or whatever in the eighth century. What else has Eric red done? Is he, is he only Bigelow's? Uh, we'll talk about him, um, briefly.

No, sorry. It's a, it's near dark, not point break. I got that right. So he wrote near dark with her. Then he writes this with her.

Uh, then he writes, yeah, like nothing. I mean, very little, like, I mean, he writes scripts, but uh then he writes yeah like nothing i mean very little like i mean he writes scripts but they're like movies i've never heard of does she get another writing credit on one of her films after this um let me find out well yeah because she yeah oh no because she doesn't mark bull well no i know bull but she i was gonna say well she has a writing credit on

strange days she doesn't actually although she did write that movie right uh the weight of water uh no k19 no i do love and yeah of course bull has written the last three i love that this is a new york movie and um there are some new york uh iconic scenes but there's a lot of shallow focus of like this takes place in a very artsy 80s new wave and you know she did her original background uh which she was in the new york art scene right worked at the whitney yeah and um you know and then kind of got out of it but still you know this might have been her salute to her youth you know she used to flip apartments in soho with philip glass there was an art there was a new yorker article right is that crazy yeah no There was a New Yorker article, right? Isn't that crazy? Yeah, no.

She did a lot of those video art. She was an actress. She was a performer. If what one does in video art installation is called acting, she was a performer. And she modeled a little bit. I mean, she was existing in all these different spheres of the art world.

But I watched this movie, and this movie feels like a sort of howl of all that she had been through and had to bite her tongue through of just not being taken seriously in these spaces. Having to work twice as hard. And you also go like,

Catherine Bigelow is a very, very good looking woman. Oh yeah, great. Yeah, of course. And this movie, everyone keeps on saying to Jamie Lee Curtis,

like, you're so pretty, why do you want to be a cop? Sure, that is a dating scene. Oh, it is a classic refrain. And they think it's a compliment. You know, they keep on saying to her Lee Curtis like you're so pretty why do you want to be a cop sure that is a classic refrain and they think it's a compliment you know they keep on saying to her like you know I don't know how to say this but like

I love that scene though because where does she live like City Island like where is this that she's supposed to her parents are from well the parents I don't know

I was thinking more about the scene where she goes to her friends that's what I'm talking about yeah it's not her parents it's felt like Queens or Staten Island or something

aren't they like on the water I couldn't really figure it out but anyway yeah and then the guy's like oh why do you want to be a cop and she's saying I'm talking about. Yeah, it's not her parents. It's spelled like Queens or Staten Island or something. But aren't they on the water? I couldn't really figure it out. But anyway, yeah. And then the guy's like, oh, why do you want to be a cop? And she's saying, I like shooting people. Yeah. That's such a great story. What is it exactly that she says?

She says, I like shooting people. I like slamming people's heads against the wall. That's what she says to him, right? Because it's when she's in the- He asked her why she wanted to become a cop. She said, I wanted to shoot people. That was in the car. That's in the car with her partner, right?

And then she's kind of like, yeah, from age four, four i wanted to shoot people and there's like silence for a second then they laugh which is a good right uh yeah it's great because you know you know that she's joking right but also it's like shut the hell up or i'm gonna start meaning this uh yeah eventually i'm gonna give you the real and she's also sort of putting her cards on the table where she's like yeah you don't get to just kid around yeah like a few you don't get to kid around you don't ask everybody else i mean and then there's a thing with the father she's you know well so philip bosco inventor okay i don't want because i think you know she has that training scene where she fails but she still passes right uh yes she joins the force and then we get a lot of like super awesome you know bigelow like here's her in full uniform here's her and she's

taking pictures with elizabeth pena right and this cop uniform looks so fucking good sure like i was sitting there watching it just feeling like a fucking slob you know because it's like here's like a movie star right in like a perfectly tailored cop uniform that looks so iconic and i just was like i wish i could find clothes that suited me as well. Do you know what I'm saying? I do. I do know what you're saying. But this is like an organic point I'm making in relation to the movie.

I mean, here's something I thought. I feel like Mack Weldon is better than whatever I'm wearing right now. Like I feel, can I speak honestly here? I didn't even see this coming. I know this is a side tangent. I know this is a side tangent,

but will you allow me to say this? Of course I'll allow you to say it. Yes, please. I'm not going to cut you off. I know I like to cut you off, but please. I might ramble a little bit here, but I got to say this. If I can speak from the heart. Yes.

Okay, and this might be sloppy. It might be loose. All right, all right. Because I'm flying off the handle here. Okay. But I mean, we all know that Mack Weldon believes in smart design, premium fabrics, and simple shopping. We know that.

Sure. We know that. Yeah, I know. Well, I mean, I simple shopping. We know that. Sure. We know that. Yeah. I know. Well, I mean, I think not everyone knows. Maybe it's good to tell people. I mean, look, I'm not a comfortable person. No, you are not.

In any sense of the word. Yeah, you dress like a child, I think, to try and deal with that. A hundred percent. Right, right. But also, I— You value comfort. Above everything else. Yeah.

And it's a daily battle for me, being not comfortable. I wouldn't even say uncomfortable, just perpetually not comfortable. Sure, yeah, better way of putting it. I think it's the same as uncomfortable. But I'm trying to make a distinction. He wants to make a distinction. He is not comfortable. I'm not comfortable.

You're a-comfortable. I'm a-comfortable. And I feel like my body naturally wants to go into a fetal position. So anytime I get clothes that make me feel like the weight of the world is briefly off my shoulders. Sure. Right? Yeah. You're talking about comfort.

I'm talking about comfort. We know that Mack Weldon will be the most comfortable underwear, socks, shirts, undershirts, hoodies, sweatpants that you will ever wear. Sure. We know that. Yeah. I think they have like a- We know that.

Does everyone know that? That's what I'm saying. You keep saying we. I think people need to hear about that. well then i'm gonna can i open up a little bit here uh sure i sweat a lot uh yeah i mean new york city it's been a sweaty summer but i got bad sweat glands okay we're all sweaty guys right jordan but i'm really little i'm really little yeah right you're not maybe the same you don't read as a sweaty guy i don't read as a sweaty guy right and i'm not very physically active.

You're both tall men. You got some size to you. Yeah, we got some heft. I'm this little shrimp. You're a little shrimpy guy. And I don't move at all. I just sit in air-conditioned movie theaters and still I sweat like John Goodman.

Constantly. So, you know, the fact that they have a line of silver underwear and shirts that are naturally antimicrobial. I mean, speak up. I mean, I think you're right. So it's silver underwear. Okay, I will speak up.

They have a line of silver underwear and shirts that are naturally antimicrobial. It's a shield. It's like she gets a shield in Blue Steel. Yes. You get a shield. You get a shield. It eliminates odor. That's the thing.

What? Imagine. I mean, this is all so great, but where are we going to get this stuff? You got to go to MackWeldon.com. Are you kidding me? And is there maybe like a discount or something? Well, here's the thing. I love Mack Weldon.

The only thing that could make Mack Weldon any better is if I was only paying 80% of what they're actually charging. You might say getting 20% off. I like to pay a full 80%. Jesus. But that's where it ends for me. Uh-huh. It's not 20% off. It's 80% on.

Now, sometimes you go to these websites and there's a promo code box there and you don't have a promo code and you feel like an idiot. Uh-huh. And you go, God, I guess I got to leave it blank. Well, this time, you should leave it blank. Hey, right.

By typing in the word blank. Yeah, you want 20%. leave it blank. By typing in the word blank. They want you to be comfortable. I've talked to them. I've been talking to Mack Weldon a lot. Yeah, they're sponsoring our show. It's very exciting. They've been sliding into my DMs. I've been sliding into theirs. I've been sliding like Giffield. Okay? And they, do you know what

they told me? I don't even know if I should be saying this on the air. Do you know what they told me? Go ahead. In confidence they told me that if you don't even know if I should be saying this on the air. Do you know what they told me? Go ahead. In confidence they told me that if you don't like your first pair you can keep it and they will still refund you no questions asked. I actually think that's public information that they want. I don't know about that. They might get angry. I might have to cut that out.

I might have to cut that out. Well all I know is 20% off Mack Weldon. You put in promo code blank. That's what you want. Go to MackWeldon.com And not only does their underwear socks and shirts look good they perform well too they're good actors I'm sort of struggling to wrap my tongue around it

you can put this clothing on a stage you've used it right Jordan promo code blank I have worn their underwear I think it's a strange thing podcasts make us do talk Talk about her underwear. Usually you only have to talk about it for 60 seconds. Griffin's kind of going bananas here.

Griffin's stretching it. And you know about the microbial shields? Silver underwear. I put them on. I blasted a fart. My wife didn't know a thing. Hey, that's the greatest endorsement I could ever hear. I blasted it.

That's all I want. That's a pretty good endorsement. Hydrogen and H-bomb in her direction. Normally, that's a get out the what are these things called? The rolling pin.

What the hell is he doing? He's shaking a rolling pin. I'm making a joke about wives yelling at their husbands. Oh, I see, like you're the old battle axe. Normally, if I do, you know, you treat your ladies nice. This is a great episode for you to bring up that kind of horror. Yeah, right. Very good.

Let me just say this. I want to settle a rumor. Goes down easy. Drinking it, baby. Settle the rumor. I want to settle one rumor right here and right now. Yeah. Silver underwear.

Okay? Now, we're talking about Blue Steel here. People might go, ooh, Ron Silver underwear? Sure. He is not such a great guy in this movie. No good. Silver underwear. Okay? Now, we're talking about blue steel here. People might go, ooh, Ron Silver underwear? Sure. He is not such a great guy in this movie. No good, very bad, don't do it. Right? No.

No. Think of this underwear as your Jamie Lee Curtis, and think of those odors like Ron Silver. Yeah. Yeah. And they're going to keep it away. Yeah. It's like- Smell good.

Yeah. Yeah. And it looks good. It looks good for working out. It looks good for going to work, going on dates, everyday life, whatever you want. Okay, enough. No. Let's do more. Look, maybe you're like me.

Maybe you want as many layers of clothing on at all times. You don't want anyone to ever see your body. Sure. But just for yourself, at the end of the night when you're changing, you want to look down and see some Mackwell. That's all I'm going to tell you. I love how we even went long there, Ben, annoyed with us on that. But just for yourself, at the end of the night when you're changing, you want to look down and see some Mackwell. And that's all I'm going to tell you. The problem is. I love how we even went long there, Ben, annoyed with us on that.

I just can't even. I don't know. I don't know. So anyway, Blue Steel. You know which precinct she belongs to? Which one? It's on her collar, the 22nd Precinct, which is the fake precinct. The 2-2.

Because that was renamed the Central park precinct a little long ago so it no longer exists i know yeah um just wanted to bring us back in with that so she quickly gets put into the job right you see you see her at her graduation how soon because you saw her for the first time last night yeah how soon did you know that elizabeth pena was going to get killed i was really hoping she wouldn't but like the minute like the first time last night. How soon did you know that Elizabeth Pena was going to get killed? I was really hoping she wouldn't. But like the minute, like the first scene, it's like... A character like that, you're like, what's the purpose of this character?

She's like, oh, I'm so happy you're like assistant to me. They're not even related. They're just friends. Good friends. She comes to the graduation. I've been to those graduations. Lots of family and friends come to them at one police plaza but it's

this is her family that this is her family is a little surprising the two of them are so great together Elizabeth Hania another deceased person we have a couple deaths yeah because Ron Silver died when did Ron Silver die?

Ron Silver died a little while ago no longer than that I think 2009 because you know the funny thing about ron silver was how he turned into this arch conservative he was like the james woods of his well but he wasn't he was like classic hollywood liberal and then in the bush era he turns into this arch conservative oh uh who was like very pro-war you know and very like pro giuliani. He sort of became Ron Silver's character in blue steel. And that's the thing. Well, yeah,

but like, but you know, in the West wing in the first and like maybe the second season, he plays like a democratic campaign consultant and they brought him back for the seventh season to play a Republican campaign consultant, which I enjoyed. I liked it. They,

and he's, and his character within the West wing is like, yeah, no, I kind of have kind of changed my mind. But he wasn't like, like James Wood is right now is like a maniac, right? I mean, he's like Trump level. I don't even want to talk about

that guy. He sues people. He freaks me out. I love him, though. Such a good actor. He's great. Yes, he is. He's very, very, very... Is Woods, let's just say, is Woods the most outspoken Hollywood conservative? Scott Baio or whatever.

There are these people who are a little more fringy. Like a firebrand. Voight. John Voight. John Voight. But Voight I think is more like a McCain level

conservative. Yes. He's always been a conservative. Is Woods the only was Woods and Scott Baio if which is embarrassing. No there's others though because there's like

there's all those guys that will go on Fox News and be like I think Donald Trump's great or whatever. Who else? Kid Rock. I don't know. Yeah and be like, I think Donald Trump's great or whatever. Who else? Well, Kid Rock. I don't know.

Yeah, nobody. I think Woods is the only one of any merit. Antonio Sabato Jr., right? That's right. Yeah, he was another one. Stephen Baldwin, Gary Busey. Right. Preview for our point break.

But yeah, it's mostly these sort of fringy celebrities like that. Who haven't really been a big deal in 10 years. To endorse. Which is sort of true of James Woods too, sadly haven't really been a big deal in 10 years. To endorse like Which is sort of true of James Woods too sadly. Yes. Although I still always enjoy seeing him on screen.

Was Woods radicalized by playing Rudy Giuliani in that TV movie? He loved Rudy Giuliani that's why he played him. He demanded that role. Woods has always been an asshole.

Like there have been Woods has always been a really strong personality I think. And he's played ultra liberals before. What was he? One true believer?

What was Yeah and he played Roy Cohn in Citizen Cohn wrong personality. Right. And he's played, he's played ultra liberals before. What was he, one true believer? What was, uh, yeah. And he played Roy Cohn in, in, in a citizen cone, uh,

which, you know, is not a positive. Yeah. Right. But there's Mississippi burning where he plays like, no,

no, it's, it's ghosts of Mississippi. Always get those two confused. Yes. Yeah, there he is. There's Gary Busey.

No, Mississippi burning. He plays, uh, the guy it's essentially I mean he's he's the villain of the movie but he's also like

he's this racist who's later being like dragged in front of court many years later for this bombing goes to Mississippi you messed me up I'm sorry

and then right now he's turned I don't know James Woods is freaky I think he always was was difficult

yeah and I think he always was difficult. Yeah. And I think he is antagonistic in a way that maybe some of those other people aren't. Like, Stephen Baldwin's very loud about his support of Trump, but he's also not, like, starting fights with people. He's just kind of, like, speaking, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I guess when you're Woods, I mean, he's, you know, he's young and he's he's probably got a good amount of money and he feels invincible and what does he care there was the last does like to see people though

so woods role i remember was uh white house down where he's great in that but he also plays like modern day james woods he plays the like the presence he's being corrupted we have to take it back right but he also yeah he is willingly playing the villain. Right. That's what's weird is like you realize maybe James Woods was playing his own philosophies. Maybe. Very often in films, but always framed as the villain. Right.

That's the last movie he made. Well, every actor says that they never think of themselves as a villain, right? He truly, I mean, that's probably why he became such a good movie villain because he was always like I mean but this guy's the hero of the movie god I forgot they remade Straw Dogs that Rob Lurie remade Straw Dogs

yeah I never saw it me neither with James Marsden our generation's Dustin Hoffman I mean no disrespect to James Marsden I love James Marsden

I think he's a phenomenal actor that's the wrong person to play that role who's the who plays Kate Bosworth Kate Bosworth it's anyway

James Bosworth I think of Beckinsale when you say Bosworth Kate Bosworth's the, James Wright Wood is in that movie. I think of Beckinsale when you say Bosworth. Kate Bosworth's the one who's in Superman Returns. I can't picture her. She's Lois Lane. Luke Rush. I picture Kate Beckinsale. She has two differently colored eyes. She's a little bit of an anonymous actress, I guess.

She never really hit. She was in Beyond the Scene. She was the previous Alicia Vikander to me. You're really disrespecting Alicia Vikander. It's like an Academy Award winner. I can't picture her. I don't know what she looks like. She's vapor.

She's very slender and sort of, you know, she's got more of a... And I'd like to bring this up, actually, because I had an interesting conversation. Everybody has their own whatever this is. There are certain actors that you just can't remember. Yeah, that you're face-blind about. Yeah, I'm face-blind about Alicia Vikander. I've seen her in 10 movies. I don't know what she looks like.

I love that apparently Lara Croft can only be played by people who just won an Oscar. Lara Croft. Yes, yes, you're right. You're right. It's true. Right? Because that was like Jolie's almost immediate follow-up to winning the Oscar. Yeah.

And, right. There aren't a lot of brand-name female franchise heroes. Right. You know, and I think with Vikander, they were probably like, well, let's see what we can put you in. Let's see what we can build around you. And it's like, what's going? I guess, how about a Lara Croft reboot? And they're

doing the reboot that's like the video game reboot, where it's more of just like she's a gritty action adventurer who has a pickaxe and can climb a cliff. I saw that trailer, first half of the trailer, I was so on board because it was so puzzle focused.

Like, the first half of that trailer has her working like 12 different puzzles. Yeah, she likes puzzles. And then once she starts jumping off cliffs, I didn't give a shit anymore.

All right, guys, let's talk about Blue Steel because we're... Are there puzzles in Blue Steel? You know what there is not in Blue Steel? You don't never know what's going to happen next.

Okay. The only thing you don't know about is Richard Jenks and getting him. Well, you think she's got him. Right. She's got him and then old Ricky Jenks comes in. That going to happen next. Okay. The only thing you don't know about is Richard Jenkins getting him. Well, you think she's got him. Right. She's got him. And then old Ricky Jenkins comes in.

That's what I love. Okay. A more conventional movie would have gone, hey, the conflict of the movie is she's dating a guy she's trying to hunt down. Yeah, that would be the whole movie. Instead, halfway through the movie, right, so she's a cop. She shoots Tom Sizemore. Ron Silver takes the gun.

He starts shooting people, right? Right. But let's say like and he's also carving her name into the books in the rain the other couple things that are set up is

okay Elizabeth Pena is her best friend you fear that Elizabeth Pena is going to be a victim in this movie but you also go like god it's so rare to just see two women

be friends in a movie does this movie pass the best sales test 100% yeah because they just have fucking casual conversations right

yes yeah men are not really discussed at all. There's one. I mean, there is the one. She's trying to introduce him to guys, but yeah. But that's cool. Okay, so you get that. She's seemingly career-focused.

She's wanted to be a cop forever. Everyone's ragging on her for not having a boyfriend. She doesn't really give a shit. You see her home life. Her dad resents the fact that she's a cop. I can't believe my fucking daughter's a cop. Oh, that dad sucks. And her parents are caught in this abusive relationship.

Right. Louise Fletcher is clearly very supportive but very kind of broken and under the thumb of this gross fucking abusive dad. And she sits uneasily with her father and vice versa. And she's just now I finally get to be a cop. I've earned it. I get to kill it. And she goes in the office and no one takes her seriously. And she shoots a guy committing a robbery.

And everyone's like, I just want to set that up as the background. I get it. I get it. Right. Then you have this silver get out of that, that, that supermarket. I know he just vanishes. I don't know. There is somewhat something somewhat supernatural. But I also love like stylistically, as we said, there's a I don't know. He's a supernatural guy. There is somewhat something somewhat supernatural about him.

But I also love, like stylistically, as we said, there's a lot of shallow focus. There's a lot of fog. There's a lot of bright colors. Beautiful movie. She's across the street getting coffee or whatever. When she sees the robbery happen and she goes into the convenience store, immediately very deep focus. She's very connected to her surroundings. She's rounding this corner.

You see him in the background of the shop while she's in the foreground. He's also the slowest holdup man ever. Because he's like, come on, I'm not ordering takeout here. He's got like three lines. He's doing a monologue in his acting class. He's really trying to milk it to get his $100 worth. For sure.

He wants a lot of stuff for them to be able to note. But then she has this heroic hero moment and it feels like this is the moment that would make another cop. Yeah. But A, the gun gets away. I love these fucking shots of Ron Silver just sort of like idolizing the gun and then when it lands there, like fetishizing it. Ron Silver does some amazing eyeball acting

in this movie. I love Ron Silver. Just to be clear, he's the best. He's great. I would love to know I would love to see this in a theater because it looked good on my TV. Yeah. It looked pretty great on my TV, too. What did you watch it on? I watched it on Amazon Prime Video.

So did I. Yeah. It's right there on Amazon. I decided to try, A, be a miser and try something new. I watched this on Tubi TV. Which I heard it's streaming on. What is this Tubi TV? It has ads, right?

Yeah. Tubi TV is no good I mean here's the thing I saw probably the same transfer that you saw yeah but every five minutes there was ads

oh that's sad I can't handle that it had no it had no it's a real thing yeah yeah it's not like some fake company

well I use a Roku so I went to Roku and I feel bad I have a friend that works at Tubi TV I hope she's not listening but I went to I went to my Roku and I typed in Blue Steel and I said I could pay $3. So I went to Roku. And I feel bad. I have a friend that works at Tubi TV. I hope she's not listening. But I went to my Roku, and I typed in Blue Steel, and I said I could pay $3.99 for Amazon.

Sure. Or I could try my little Tubi TV action. And we tried it. And it did feel – I was watching with my wife, who had seen it before also. But it was – there was a lot of bathroom breaks. Makes it feel a little TNT. It was like watching a movie on television in the old days. I went to the bathroom.

Did you get also like local commercials in your screening? Wait, did you get yours? I got a main furniture company. It was like insane. You watched it on Tubi TV? Come on down to Banger. It was like a local commercial. No, I did not.

I got, there were like the same 10 recycle. like every, so I got to see a lot of them and I turned the volume down, but it was not local stuff. It was like Chevrolet or whatever. It was normal ads, but that's funny. So until the day that I'm really broke, which could be next week, I don't see myself using 2B TV that much if I have a $4 option on Amazon. You've got to go Amazon. I like it. It looked good on Amazon.

Yeah, but particularly the shot of Silver and the eyeball. Because when I noticed, I'm like, this movie is gorgeous. Because the floor is like beige and the lighting is so weird and his face just looks so great. And I would love to see this in the theater. Really unsettling images. Um, well, yeah.

So you expect like the kind of heroes welcome and she comes back and they're immediately like, he said, she said, well, where's the gun? This and that. Like everyone's just given her the fucking business and the run around with

the comb. Right. Right. Uh, and the ridiculous hair. Yeah. Uh, the great Kevin Dunn.

Yeah, he's the pencil pusher who's like, hey, listen, you didn't follow regulations. One of our most frustrated actors. I love Kevin Dunn. I love Kevin Dunn. I think he's the best. It's so weird how Woody Allen has put him in six movies to play the same role,

which is the guy who lets you into the country home that you're going to be staying at. And he's like, anyway, I'm going on vacation. I'll see you later. You know, he's wearing like a silk shirt. Well, you know, the thing I like most about the first Transformers, I think one of the reasons why I defend the first Transformers so thoroughly. Yeah, him and Judy White.

Right. But it's so small soldiers-y where he plays the exact same role in Small Soldiers where it's like his son who's kind of a fuck up. And then he's got these weird robots that keep on following him around and he's just trying to like what son what are you doing and why is he peeing on the lawn right why is he peeing on the lawn is it optus prime primate peas or bumblebee i think it's bumblebee i haven't seen that movie in a long time amir mokri who shot this movie okay uh Transformers 3 and 4. Okay.

And I think Transformers 3 is a great looking movie. It's a great looking movie. He has become a big blockbuster DP. Because he did Fast and Furious. He did Man of Steel. He did Pixels. What else we got? Pixels.

Bad Boys 2. But he started out as Wayne Wang's DP. Interesting. Pixels has P in it also. Qbert P is in Pixels. Great. uh pixel is a great movie about a failing president who like really struggles to confront a alien invasion my favorite thing about pixels i turned it on and i was me and my brother were watching it being like this movie's gonna suck right and immediately it's like kevin james is at the podium and he's sweating and it was like a

month into the trump administration. And we were like, this feels, this feels very relatable for some. I just want a reboot of pixels from Qbert's point of view. Sure. Sure. Bring, make the movie all about,

about Qbert. Qbert's in a wreck at Ralph too. They did a lot of Qbert jokes out there. Qbert's been booking recently. Yeah. Qbert's doing great. They got him in the midnight raid. A lot of like Qbertese jokes.

Yeah. Can you confirm something for me? Yeah. I heard that in the Midnight Raid. A lot of like, Q-bert-ese jokes. Can you confirm something for me? Yeah. I heard that in the movie Q-bert at one point transforms into Ashley Benson from Spring Breakers, and then Josh Gad has sex with Q-bert. That's correct. And then they have children.

That's like the post-script. They're like half Josh Gad, half Q-bert. They're like Arbert. They're not all the way to Q-bert. Because they have sexual intercourse when she looks like Ashleybert. They're not all the way to cubart. Because they have sexual intercourse when she looks like Ashley Benson. He's not fucking the cubart tube, right? I mean, it's not explicit. Who knows?

He might be fucking the cubart tube. I don't know. That tube knows? Yeah. That'll knock you right off the pyramid there. Oh, boy. Okay, so Blue Steel. They immediately dock her.

Oh, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We talked about that you can't control yourself then ron silver's fascinated with her so he approaches her he does this whole uh flim flam with like get my cab we'll share a cab he waits by the um he waits by the station house to put her in but i also i love at this point we've gotten the first of the sequences ron uh silver on the trading floor where he's caught in these sort of big wide shots.

Sell! Right. Telephoto, like zooming out. I'll buy that soy! And this guy's just so fucking impotent. Like he looks so stressed out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's desperate to get people's attention.

But now he goes home and he just strokes this gun and he feels like a person for the first time. You know? He starts laying it on with jamie the curse taking her on dates fancy dinners like saying how great she is so charming the input yeah he's good at that dinner and the implicate and he's funny in the cab he says yeah he's very charming in the jokes yeah right but the implication is that he's not 100 committed to kill until it's thrust upon him i mean he does carve her name in the bullet case he cars her name in

the book and he goes for a walk in the rain and he trips. And a very nice guy, kind of looked like M. Emmett Walsh. It wasn't M. Emmett Walsh, but a nice middle-aged man. It was L. Emmett Walsh. It's the second time I did the same joke. I can't wait for the third time.

L. Emmett Walsh is like, hey, buddy, all right. Oh, my God, you fell in the rain. And the gun has spilled out of his hands or whatever, of his jacket. It's on, my God. And the gun has like spilled out of his hands or whatever. His jacket. It's on the floor there. And they make eye contact. He's like, buddy, what are you doing?

And he picks up the gun super slowly. And the guy's like, hey, wait a second. Hey, continue to stop raising that gun. But it's almost like the gun in this movie is like the one ring. Like once he has it in his possession. He's kind of like looking at it and looking at you and looking at it and looking at you. And he becomes so obsessed with the power of it. Absolutely. And that's

what that opening credit scene is about. It's fetishizing the gun. He's got a big metal dick now and he can kill people with his cum bullets. So he shoots that guy. He shoots that guy. But no but I just I mean I'm trying to remember is there much of the dating

before he then asks because our original point like 20 minutes ago was halfway through the movie 50 minutes in he's like

why don't you take the gun and role play shooting he wants to get pegged and then she figures out this is the guy so the first date

he walks her back to her place and she goes like do you want to come inside and he's like no I'll save that for later. And you're like, ooh, what's his play here?

He's showing restraint. Then she goes back to work. I believe there's another killing and they're like, seriously, you got no fucking read on this? Right. The cops don't understand

why the bullet casings have her name on it. Yeah, I think one of them actually makes a joke like, her name is Megan Turner. And the only other Megan Turner in New York is like an 88-year-old lady or whatever. And there's a great line like, unless he's into oxygen, unless he's got an oxygen tank fetish, he's into you. Right.

And they have one line of thinking, which is like, no angry ex-boyfriends. Like, they just keep on assuming there's some guy you dumped. It's her fault. It has to be her fault. Yeah. Literally blaming the victim. And I think we've already had the scene at this point where she goes to Elizabeth Pena's

cookout, her backyard cookout. Yeah, and we have dunks on that guy. Right, this fuckboy who just goes you're so pretty, why do you have to be a cop? And she just like, yeah, well intentionally enough, she does, I mean she dunks on him but then sort of pats him on the head and goes like, you're okay. Nice work. Like you say, this

is, easily could have been a movie about she is a cop and she's in a relationship with a guy who's a serial killer and she doesn't know it and right at the end it all comes to a head

and she realizes that's what you think it's gonna be you think this is gonna drag out until the very last scene when she goes oh my god you're the killer yes it was you

and instead you also play through she's like no it's you goes to the cops. And the cops are like, what? He was creepy? Like, this isn't enough.

But the cops do have her back. Clancy Brown has her back. Not everyone has her back. But Clancy Brown's like, all right, all right. I can buy this. And then the chief sort of has her back. Kind of. But no, they're not.

Certainly, they can't arrest him. But the chief's kind of distracted because his son keeps on playing with robots. No, but I think, you know, there's the element of the second date she goes on is when they're like

really hitting it off. Right? Yeah. And she's finally allowing herself. Right, and this is like the kind of guy she wants to be with. Like the whole movie she's been like pushing away these fuckboys. And it's like, okay, this is like a grown up.

He's a professional. He's a professional. He's not like an outer borough guy. She's in Manhattan now. She's got the big city bright lights. And she meets a guy with prospects who lives in a very nice apartment. And the second date's the helicopter, I think. Right?

Yeah. That's right. He's Superman. Right. It's the Superman. It's the Superman thing. And there are those amazing like the helicopter photography going around like the statue of liberty it goes on for a while it sounds like tron she's got this really cool like it's very similar to the tangerine dream

score in your dark but she does this thing i love it when filmmakers do uh james cameron collaborator okay music yeah music and this is great you know the yeah and she did on this she does this thing that i love which i think like it helps aid the dream state of this movie when it starts to get to this like fever dream kind of state this is when i think it starts slipping into this where she uses like one kind of repetitive like looping track that carries over through a couple of scenes unchanged music wise-wise. Yes. So you have a few scenes that are playing out in full that then have this quality of feeling like a montage because the same basic musical cue is playing throughout their dinner date

to then when they're in the helicopter, the photography, them in the helicopter, him walking her back to her house, them starting to make out, and you're like, okay, here, this is like finally she gets to have some fun in her life and then he starts getting weird about the gun he starts getting

really weird about the gun very quickly and at first she's kind of like okay I'll engage with this but then

yeah at first the gun scene like at first she's like no I'm not gonna pull my gun but then he's like come on baby

and she's like well fine if this is your thing yeah there's a moment of like you want me to do that I'm not gonna kink my, but then he's like, come on, baby. And she's like, well, there's a moment of like, you want me to do that? I'm not going to kink. She's kind of like, all right.

I mean, it's probably like guys have asked me to do weirder things. Right. All right. I'll think about it. But that, then, then it clicks for her.

Like, oh yeah, I see. And then he starts talking about God and revelation. Yeah. Well, he's having the brightness. He's having time.

Have we already seen him have the workout yeah breakdown at this point but he has like three right he's also there's one scene is clutching his sheets going yeah the demons in my head it looks like he's in withdrawal like it's hysterical those scenes where you're just like we would we'd buy that he was going crazy we don't need him to be i like it too because it's just. It gets operatic. Let's talk about Ron. Like who else. Like casting Ron Silver is a choice. The man is.

Yes. The man has a distinctive look. He does. Jew. He's a big Jew. I can say this. He's a honking Jew. Right.

We're talking as a couple Jewish men here. But he's also. I mean this is a man who has recorded four. Not one. Not two. Not three. Four Philip Roth audiobooks. Sure.

American Pastoral, Pot Against America, I Married a Communist, Portnoy's Complex. He's also a very specific brand of too slick Jew. He's a kind of yuppie Jew that is very indicative of this time period. And also there's no

explicit Jewish content in this film anywhere. But anybody anybody who knows new york knows who this guy is and most reasonable people but you know you cast right i mean those shots of him looking at himself in the mirror with his yeah schnoz and they're in the center of the frame i mean it's it's not you know it's the real deal yeah for sure but this is the i mean i think of him as the villain in Time Cop, right? I mean, this is the sort of beginning of, he also, he's a great slime ball. He's, right? Like Alan Dershowitz, for God's sake.

Yeah, he did. But you get to like, this is like, he's in this slime ball. I like that movie. You don't like that? It's all right. It's all right. It's pretty good.

He's in this, Ron Silver wears a really nice suit with no tie and like quietly menaces the lead character phase of his career, which by the time you get to 1999, he, Vision, and Jack, which was like the great unproduced pilot that Dan Harmon and Rob Schraub wrote and Ben Stiller directed with Jack Black and Owen Wilson, he plays the villain and the villain is Ron Silver. It's Ron Silver playing actor Ron Silver. Right, right, right. Who is the crime boss that is terrorizing this talking motorcycle and an astronaut um so by like the end of this decade it became like it got to the point of self-parody right and was this the first one basically i think this was kind of like the the beginning of that real tilt into like ron

silver uh do you want me to take a look at wait wasn't he in a Jean-Claude Van Damme Time Cop that's what I'm saying he's the villain in Time Cop but was that after this yeah that's after this that's 94 he wasn't

of course he's in yeah cause he's in well let me think I mean he's in Silkwood he's in Enemy's A Love Story he's in well that's a real movie that's not

well those are real movies you know but yeah no I think he's still pretty and then yeah he's Dershowitz in Reversal of Fortune

which is the next year. Or it's actually the same year because this movie actually came out in 1990. Klaus von Bülow once called me on the phone. The real Klaus von Bülow was very funny. Really? Yes. My mother was doing a story on him later in life.

I can't remember why. And I picked up the phone at home. And I was like, hello? And he was like, this is Klaus von Bülow. Is your mother home? And I talked to Klaus von Bülow. Is your mother home? And I talked to Klaus von Bülow for a second. So he was Dracula. He was doing a Dracula impression.

He really sounded like Dracula. He's in Mr. Saturday Night. Remember that movie? I do. That is a flawed motion picture. It's a very flawed movie. That's a really interesting flawed movie. I forgot.

He's in Ali. He plays Angelo Dundee who is like his like trainer Muhammad Ali's trainer but I feel like he becomes like a TV guy like he never quite he's always just like

he's around he's Ron Silver he also was like watching this movie in particular he was in Farron Hype 9-11 okay

the documentary about how much Michael Moore's bad watching this movie Jordan just made a great face Farron Hype 9-11 Farron Hype it's a fake word yeah yeah yeah. Watching this movie. Jordan just made a great face. Fair unhype. Fair and hype 9-11. Fair and hype.

It's a fake word. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Watching this movie, I was like, Ron Silver was a great actor. You know, dubious politics aside, perhaps he would have gone on

to give us several more great performances, you know, if he had continued living. But you watch this movie and you're like, man, Ron Silver was like

really created to be in the pocket for like an eightyear span of time. There were eight years where culturally Ron Silver represented something. The water level and he met perfectly. And then they moved on. He's great on the West Wing.

You guys clearly are not West Wing. He's a great actor and he did great work up until the end and he would have continued to do great work. But there was a point in this where you're just like, geez, it's like they created Ron Silver in a lab so he could have continued to do great work. Yeah. But there was like a point in this where you're just like, geez, it's like they created Ron Silver in a lab so he could have played this role. I agree with you. But I actually, I know what Jordan's saying that he's, you know, he's not an American

psycho looking guy, right? He's not like this sort of Teutonic or like Waspy, like Wall Street bro with the slick back hair. Which I think is the only reason that he's able to successfully seduce Jamie Lee Curtis. You presume she wouldn't go for a guy like that. There's something kind of earthy about him. He's a little, yes, yuppified. Ethnic, if I may use that word.

Right. I mean, you know. Right. He's a street level guy. Yeah. Yeah. And he, I wish I could remember the line when they're in the cab. He does, he makes a pretty damn good joke.

Yeah. I forget what it is, but. And he has that moment where Bigelow goes to like extreme close ups when they're at the restaurant and he says this whole thing about like I can't believe I

did this. I never do stuff like this. You know. It's just amazing I'm sitting here with you right now. And he also shows

regret for being a commodities trader which seems legit. That scene. Well I mean we know he's unsatisfied. Right. Right.

He wouldn't go around killing people otherwise. He wouldn't go around shooting people in the rain. But he's like disarming. Right. He wouldn't go around killing people otherwise. He wouldn't go around shooting people in the rain. But he's like disarmingly introspective and vulnerable in that scene

which I think is the key is that he's not just like laying on the charm but it feels like he's being very honest with her which really kind of engages her. And his apartment is not like modern.

No. It looks like an old palace. It looks like a museum almost. He doesn't have a lot of slick modern late 80s early 90s goo g almost. He doesn't have a lot of slick, modern, late 80s, early 90s goo-gaws. He's got like... Goo-gaws is such a good word. He's got like, kind of like...

First of all, the lobby looks like a museum. And then once you get into his place, it's got thick mahogany chairs and secret library rooms and stuff like that. I mean, it's kind of an odd thing for, you know, a bachelor commodities trader in 1990. But then once you get to this 50-minute mark, when the gun thing goes a little too far and he starts talking about the brightness, she realizes what is going on.

And she, you know, calls the cops for backup. They come in. They were like, lovers quarrel. We don't want to get involved with lady stuff. Not our business. And Jenkins comes in and immediately is like, you got nothing. He's a frazzled lawyer, but

he clearly knows the moves. And you realize, oh, she's fucked now. This movie didn't make Ron Silver being the bad guy a twist at the end of the film. It didn't make it a parallel narrative cat and mouse thing where you wait for her to figure it out. The movie now is she should have all the pieces. The movie should be done, but she can't get anyone to take it seriously.

Yes, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's like trying to deliver her print and they're like, hmm. Yeah, they're like. Build a case. You don't have enough. And it's a type of thing where it's an allegorical for just, you know, women in the workplace come up with a brilliant idea. Right.

Only when a man repeats it that they like it. Which Clancy Brown becomes her mouthpiece. Like he starts after initially being the most dismissive of her, recognizing that she's got something. But also that she is so intrinsically tied to this case. Aside from the fact that she's now, you know, pointing the finger at her latest tryst. Also, her name continues to be carved into these bullets

this killer's at large he knows that somehow it's connected to her so they give her this temporary detective status which at first he's like

are you fucking kidding me like anything but that you know you have to reinstate her because she's been benched at this point and now they're kind of uneasy partners

but he starts to realize that she's got she's got the guts she's got the real bones of a great cop. Clancy Brown's terrific in this. He's a really good performance man and I love him well that's another actor where when you see him young you're like oh yeah I guess

right all of us were once young oh we gotta put Clancy Brown in the oven for like 10 more minutes and then he'll be cooked. That guy's a real like 90s cartoon villain of a face. You know what I mean? Like that guy looks like

he should be fighting the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. He fights the Highlander. Yeah, he does. This is one of his most realistic performances ever. Maybe the most.

I agree. But do you find it disappointing that they fall that they sleep together? I kind of do. Yeah, I do too and I'm not sure

why they have to I suspect it also comes like real quick in the middle of god damn rampage it's just I suspect

that that was a Edward R. Pressman was a producer of this film as was Oliver Stone I didn't I forgot yeah carry on

I suspect that that was a note that they had to do yeah I would not be surprised. Because it also, the sex scene itself feels a little like perfunctory 1990 thriller sex film. And there's a lot. I mean, it's kind of funny to see Clancy Brown's tongue.

And there's a lot of his tongue. And that's a glorious thing that we should all have screencapped on our phone. I mean, don't get me wrong. And that's also, I think, where Bigelow's influence comes in where it's like, okay, you want me to do a sex scene? It's all going to be a testament to the male tongue. Like that's all I'm going to show you,

you know? And, and what may have not actually been Jamie Lee Curtis's stomach. It could have been a stomach. Sure. I, you know, so anyway,

it is upset. I mean, it serves a plot function. He's waiting in, she's finally relaxed and, you know, having sex with somebody. And then he's in the, in the bathroom and function he's waiting and she's finally relaxed and you know having sex with somebody and then he's in the in the bathroom and then he's naked jumping around like right yeah it's crazy but there's that moment when she kind of goes into his arms and they hug

and i was like i really like the fact that they didn't kiss right now and then they start kissing and i was like it's a disappointment it's the number one problem with this i also feel like we don't get enough films about men and women working together who respect each other and have no sexual tension whatsoever. Right. It just – if you – see, I never mind if people end up together as long as there's chemistry and romance and there's some sort of spark between them. But they have the – we're not so different and they have the mutual respect. But it just doesn't do enough to suddenly be like, oh, we're not so different. And they have the mutual respect. But it just doesn't do enough to suddenly be like, oh, they're going to be. She's also his boss.

And she's being threatened and harassed and attacked from all sides. I don't think she let her guard down. Her best friend gets gunned down in front of her. I guess you could say the only thing is that she needs a human connection right now. But it seems, you know what? It would have worked if somebody close to him died too. Sure, sure. But it seems...

Almost gets him killed. Yeah, it seems like... It's just wrong. The timeline also is just kind of crazy for how condensed things become because it's like, right, she goes to see Elizabeth Pena. She's freaking out about how she can't get this guy.

But they're still just sort of like, you know, the way a friend you need at a time like this, a shoulder to lean on. And they're walking out casually. And what? Oh, my God. Ron Silver's in the stairwell. He comes from behind. Right. I mean, truly, this is where he starts to become like.

They really do almost get this guy like three times and he keeps coming back. And he starts looking progressively worse and worse he goes from being very slick looking to suddenly looking like a lunatic right we need to wrap up soon

he's giving you the high hat he achieves I'm not cutting you yes shoots Elizabeth Pena and now she's kind of flipping out because she's like

my best friend just got shot and Richard Jenkins is like but did you see him and she's like I know it's fucking him he was right behind me I know his voice and he's like

but your back was turned huh and it's just like, I know it's fucking him. He was right behind me. I know his voice. And he's like, but your back was turned, huh? It's just like this whole system. It's so, that scene is so frustrating because you're like, literally, she was in the room. He shot her. Everyone was in the room together. There's no ambiguity here. But that's the tension this movie is like. And I think that's the bigger story is like, they'll never take you seriously.

Right. And he will constantly, guys like this will constantly get away with it. I know. He's like a Wolf of Wall street type it's just like he can do whatever the fuck he wants and no one's ever stopping right and and it's uh not to get too political and up in arms but it should make us all angry because this is uh we are all gentlemen in this room but we all have women friends that have come to us with stories i'm sure we're not in the case that ron silver's trying to kill my friend but I had that once in high school we've all had women friends

that have said my boss won't listen to me and it's because it's on this it's in this film like I think this movie is trying to make above all else

men feel angry like I feel like a primary function of this movie is to be like can I dramatize we are men we are men

and I felt angry watching this movie in a good way. But it probably makes everyone feel angry, right? But yeah, I get what you're saying. But it's almost like it's- It's playing in a male genre. It's a higher stakes, dramatized, action-oriented version of the basic battle against the patriarchy. Which is a little funny footnote is,

I said I was watching it with my wife and she thought the last third movie was dumb because it is dumb. Yes, I agree. And I'm like, but it was great though. And she was like, yeah, it's kind of dumb. And then I started yelling at her, like this feminist movie more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

She was like, it was good, but the end was dumb. I'm like, no. Right. You Hoffman-splained her. I don't know. I Hoffman-splained her. I don't know if I was splaining or just, I don't know what the hell it was. It was late and we went to bed. I mean, I like howman splained her. I don't know if I was splaining or just, I don't know what the hell it was. It was late and we had,

and then we went to bed. I mean, I like how dumb it gets at the end, but it does get dumb. Like she just starts swinging for the rafters. Yeah. No, I mean the,

the, the, to, to, you know, their final confrontation where again, squibs. And he's like the Terminator at this point,

she keeps on shooting him. He keeps on getting away. He keeps on reappearing anytime she walks into a room. And it's shot right on Wall Street, which is great. It's his turf. As I mentioned before, he's hiding behind a pretzel hot dog stand. We've all done it. But, you know, she goes downtown from the hospital.

She's hiding in the hospital because something else happened. I don't know. The switcheroo in the park. He outwits her. That's a Neil Simon play, right? He outwits her. The other two good scenes with the parents, the one where she goes home and she recognizes that the father's being her again.

She arrests the dad and sits him in a car. Yeah. And it's just like... That's an interesting scene, though, because it's sort of, right, it centers the dad. But you also get the sense that that's why she's actually wanted to be a cop her entire life. Yeah. Is she's wanted to find a way to stop these inherent wrongs that keep on going on and on. The straight line is easy to draw there, yes.

But then that scene, isn't that scene kind of, she doesn't end up arresting him. She's just like, come on, please stop fucking beating my mom. It's like, fine, you're getting away with a slap on the wrist. And then the next time she goes to see the parents, Ron Silver's there. And she's like, can I talk to you guys alone? And they're like, come on, we have a guest here. It's a nice Jewish boy.

They're like, great to meet you. They're happy that she's got a man. But he's become the Terminator at this point. It's ridiculous at the end. But the thing that really drives it over the top is she's in the hospital because Clancy Brown got

shot and she got shook up. And she leaves the hospital and she bashes another cop over the head to steal his suit. Wearing his suit, which I guess you could interpret as she's finally achieving masculinity. I don't read it that way. It would have been easier to just order

from Mackwell then. She's wearing his clothing. Lacing up her Converse. She is wearing Converse. Yeah. Goes in the subway. Magically, he's there. Yeah.

Right behind her. He gets away. And then now it's daytime, even though it's night. Yeah. Goes up right at Wall Street and Broadway with the church, whatchamacallit church right behind her. Trinity Church. Yeah, Trinity Church, downtown.

And then he's just there. And then it's Sergio Leone shootout at the end yeah and it is she gets a bullet in the shoulder and he gets like

I don't know like three in the chest a lot of slow motion cars and then the ending of this movie is almost identical to the ending

of Zero Dark Thirty where it's one woman who has been methodically obsessively just trying to stop this one man who she cannot

get her hands on. And then the final shot is her sitting in the car silently and you just see the shock of like, what is my fucking life now? It holds on her and then the credits start rolling over, but it's just her sitting there silently, not crying, not celebrating, but just sort of like, what the fuck is my life?

She does get eight. I mean, how do you interpret the symbolism of a man takes her out of the car and kind of holds her? Kind of like a piata, if you will. But does she? And I was thinking I wanted her to like shove him away and walk out on her own. She doesn't.

It also feels like they finally, it's like they're like finally carrying their weight and like supporting her. That's what I would say. I like that answer. She's finally had to like... Again, she's a semiotician. We've talked about it, you know, back in the day, you know. Right.

She's not messing around with these visuals. The men are literally like holding her up and... Oh, so it's like she's a champion. Presenting her to the gods, yeah. Okay, that's a nice... That was my interpretation. I like your ending is the ending I want. I, as a negative, cynical bastard, interpreted it as like, ah, she's still

subservient, but your reading is much better. Yeah, I mean, I think this movie will continue. Like, if they made Blue Steel 2, she'd probably still be doubted by everyone around her. You know, she'd work up to a higher ranking. They might say, you're the one who stopped Ron Silver, but we still don't trust you. Why'd it take you so long? Right. You know?

Try to get Ron Gold. Right, right. No, but why didn't you rest him sooner well i tried i tried i fucking tried they should make a sequel now they should it would be she should come back on the force now jamie lee curtis yeah i'd watch it they're bringing back halloween blue platinum bring back boy it is weird now that like this movie's title is totally ruined by zoolander i know that's that's another weird thing. Blue Steel. Because Blue Steel is a cool title. No, it's a decent title. She's a New York cop, and it's about a steel gun.

Everything about this movie is cool. This movie is very cool. I think those who are interested in Bigelow, I think it's in her top tier for sure. No question for me. I think it's better than Point Break. Me, personally. I'm going to see how my final ranking shakes out. I think it's Zero Dark Thirty

and, you know, the Foot Locker, whatever the Locker. The Foot Locker. The Foot Locker and this are her best. I like K-19. Don't get me wrong. You like K-19?

You like K-19. What's there to like? I don't know. We struggled with that one. That movie's miserable. Spoilers. We struggled with that one. That movie's miserable. Spoilers. We struggled with that one. Spoilers. That movie's alright. Unless I'm confusing it with another submarine movie. You might be confusing it.

Who's in K-19? Harrison Ford, Liam Neeson, James. Is there like a scene where they send somebody in the back to his certain doom to fix something? That's what the movie's about. It's a radiation poisoning. It's not that bad. It's not like a comically bad movie about it's a radiation poisoning it's not that bad it's boring it's not like a comically bad movie

it's just it's a handsomely boring movie it's quite a dour long movie where not a lot happens all I remember is they send like you know

come on Brooklyn go in the back and save the ship and he's like I can't do it boss and then he does it anyhow already this sounds better and more lively

than K-19 I want to play the box office game yeah March 16th, 1990. This movie debuted at the Sundance Film Festival, strangely enough. That is amazing. Now, I think this is, you know, we're talking 1990 Sundance.

It's a little bit of a different scene back then. It was a Vestron film that got lost in Vestron's bankruptcy, Vestron being the video company that suddenly started making movies like Chopping Mall and Dirty Dancing and whatever. People weren't happy with it. It came out later through MGM. It got picked up by MGM. It gets put out.

It opens number five at the box office with $2.8 million. It makes $8.2 million. And it costs like $16 million. Yeah, it costs about twice as much. So it was not a hit. Yeah. So, but number one at the box office is a submarine movie.

In its third week, it's a huge box office October. With Mr. Sean Connery and Mr. Alec Baldwin. The movie still holds up. Is that McTiernan? That's McTiernan.

I have never seen that film. Oh, it's good. I'll hold that for when we do our McTiernan series. The first Jack and I. Which we gotta do at some point. Oh, I'm all in on McTiernan. That guy's a wacko. That's also quite a rise and fall.

March 1990, is he saying when this was? March 16th, 1990. So I was only four years old. I was older, but I did not see it in the movie. You were five. So you're going to tell me now I was older, but I did not see it in the movie. You were five. So you're going to tell me now what was number two at the box office? Number two at the box office is a comedy, sort of. Very strange, fantastic sort of comedy.

It's a notorious critical bomb in a beloved actor's career. The actor is more well-known as a comedian? No, he's just like one of the most famous actors alive. Oh, my God. In 1990. Would that have been Jack? No, that comes later. One of the most beloved actors alive.

Yeah, to this day. When was his peak of his career? Are we at the peak right now? No, the peak of his career will begin soon. He is the king of the 90s. Oh, it's got to be a Jim Carrey. It's a TC movie? Not Jim Carrey. Huh? Is it TC? No, not Tom Cruise. It's not Bryce

Willis. No. It's not Arnie Schwartz. No. No, 90s. 90s. I mean, he's big in the 80s too, don't get me wrong. He's already an Oscar nominee. 90s blows up. It's not Robin Williams? No. It's like the most famous actor alive. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Who is the most famous?

Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks. Oh, so it's got to be, you said it's not good though. Some people like this movie, but it was at the time sort of a critical flop. It's not big. Oh, Joe versus the Volcano? There we go.

John Patrick Shanley's Joe versus the Volcano. There we go. I can't believe we didn't think of Hanks. Yeah, I know. no I mean how does one describe Tom Hanks beloved everyman for 20 years and he was

Mr. 90s he was king of the 90s practically king of everything yeah Joe vs. the Volcano which grossed

a totally competent 40 million dollars yeah that's not bad for a March release adjusting considering that movie's reputation yeah

a weird movie. As I say, I'm older so I remember people not seeing that in the theater. He was kind of the new guy at that point. That was viewed as a misstep. Meg Ryan also was a big deal at the time. Number three.

I may be telling tales out of school here, but I'm pretty sure this is a movie your father worked on. It is a gritty adaptation of a book that had been adapted before. Lord of the Flies. Yeah. The 1990 Lord of the Flies. It's much more violent, right? I've never seen it.

Yeah, Balthazar Getty. My father worked for Lewis Allen, who was mostly like a Broadway producer. And he had the rights to Lord of the Flies. And I think my father sort of got like grandfathered into a credit on that movie. Interesting. He was certainly there a lot, but it was more like him shouting it.

He has a credit on it, right? I'm not crazy. He does have a credit on that movie, yeah. Okay. Which for a while, I think my dad kind of dined out on that because it was a title that everyone knew because everyone knows the book.

Like no one had seen that movie. Yeah, it wasn't a hit movie by any means. Number four seen that movie yeah it wasn't a hit movie by any means i'm uh number four uh is a sort of a uh a hit comedy like a wacky comedy starring a duo that is the beginning turner and hitch no no no not dog no it's it they're two people um that like is the beginning i think there's at least one or two sequels to this movie. These guys never really... They're famous for being in this movie.

And are they in the sequels together? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is, like, their bread and butter. I think they might be musicians. Can play? Oh, house party. House party. Yeah, I saw that in the theaters.

You know why we saw that? Because I wanted... This is going to sound like I am the biggest snob and i swear it's true you can i think i mean we could check the dates i wanted to see glory glory is in the box office right i wanted to see glory and it was sold out so i allowed myself to see this populist motion. I was just snob of a kid. A Reginald Hudlin joint? That's a big hit. I was like 14. So we're talking March of 1990? Yeah. March of 1990.

How old was I? I was in middle school, early, I was a freshman in high school, but in the eighth grade, whatever the hell I was. And I was the biggest movie snob you've ever seen. Yeah.

Yeah, there are two more House Parties. This is the second episode in a row where I've read House Party. That is true. But I remember not liking House Party, but I remember it's House Party. That is true. But I remember not liking House Party but I remember liking House Party 2. The part where I believe it's

he's dead now the actor. Bernie Mac? Yeah. No. Or no what's his name? It's the BB's kids guy.

That guy. Not Robin Givens it's Robin Robin something or other. Robin Harris? Yes. Robin Harris. Who was also in Do the Right Thing. No. Robin Harris yes Robin Harris who was also in

Do the Right Thing no Robin Harris is in the first movie that's what we're talking about oh okay sorry sorry the joke I was making Jordan said I didn't like that

what I did like was and the joke I was making was that he liked House Party 2 yeah no no I confused the issue so Robin Harris who I knew

because I was an intellectual and I had liked Do the Right Thing because I was a brilliant young kid he was a great stand-up. He has a line which I'm not going to do in the way he does it

because he does it in African-American vernacular English and I'm not going to do it that way. But he shouts he doesn't like the house party. He's the villain. He wants to stop the house party. So he shouts out this ain't Soul Train but he says it in a very African-American vernacular way.

Okay. And it killed me. It was the funniest thing I ever heard. He was a great comedian. I don't know. That is the only thing I remember from House Party is him shouting, this ain't Soul Train. I don't know why I thought it was funny. But House Party too, you have to come back to that.

House Party was written for not kid and play. Kid and work. Cheech and Chong. Adult and work. Will Smith and Jazzy Jeff. Oh, weird. And they turned it down Weird Oh there's also an Eraserhead joke in that

But I'd seen that in the commercial Because he's got the hair Yeah And he's like hey Eraserhead Like that's funny Other movies in the top 10 You got Driving Miss Daisy Which is about to win its

Best Picture Oscar For the 1989 Cinema year Is that good? Is that movie good? No it's horrible I actually recently watched it I'd never seen it

because I've been just trying to fill in the gaps of my Best Picture winners. I remember not liking it. It's quite bad. And saying that it was a joke and my mother saying that it was good. And I'm like,

I think we now have a generation gap. It's the kind of movie that at the time played pretty dated and kind of old-fashioned. And now when you watch it, you're like... A nightmare. And for now, but even back then, it was politically...

Yeah. No, it's a pretty... Well, it was like, that was the big statement, was like, oh, so like, Do the Right Thing doesn't even get nominated in the year when Driving Miss Daisy wins, that tells you everything. Right, and yet Public Enemy even had a song that made fun of Driving Miss Daisy. And yet Billy Crystal's had a song that made fun of Driving Miss Daisy.

And yet Billy Crystal's Oscar monologue that year begins with Driving Miss Daisy. The movie, which I guess directed itself because the director was not nominated. And the audience was like, ha, ha, ha. That was famously one of the only Best Picture winners to win without directing. Along with Argo. Until Argo. Here's a little trivia about Driving Miss Daisy. The little theme music.

Yeah. Can you hum it? It's Hans Zimmer. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Can you imagine Hans Zimmer wrote that? That's the best part of the

movie. That's the one thing the movie still has going for. He did it on a synthesizer. It was his first ever score. Synthesized clarinet. It's so weird. It's a bad movie.

He did the score for Rain Man. That was his first score which also has a weird tinkly kind of synthesized score. He was like a light dramedy guy. Yeah, he was. Lombada is number eight at the box office this week about The Forbidden Dance. I never saw that.

Really? You're not going to get to that one? No, it was a big hit. Middle school film snob George Hoffman didn't see Lombada? It was a big hit. Born on the Fourth of July, My Left Foot, Glory. I haven't seen it. We're in the Oscar corridor. But you know what? I have not seen Born on the Fourth of of July, My Left Foot, Glory. I haven't seen, we're in the Oscar corridor.

But you know what, I have not seen Born on the 4th of July since it was in theaters. Sure, I've never seen Born on the 4th of July. There's a weird gap

in my, it's sad. Sure. You know what struck me out? Because I was 14, 15, and like I said,

joking, I was Mr. Stop. I was like, I had discovered the foreign sector. I was like, I was then at 14 what David Ehrlich is now. All right, if you can imagine such a thing. I kind of went through a Sepp. I was like I had discovered the foreign sector. I was like I was then at 14 what David Ehrlich is now.

All right. If you can imagine. I kind of went through a similar phase. We love you David. He's listening to this episode. Yeah. All right. Good. David knows of my affection for him. You were just yelling at David Ehrlich yesterday. It was much tweeted about. He knows of my love for him. But there's a scene

in which he you know he's what am I getting myself uh there's a scene in which he um you know he's uh how do i what am i what am i getting with all right there's a part where like he whips out his uh genitals to show that he is unable to he's uh unable to uh achieve an erection sure and he's yelling at his mom he's waving his dick around and i for some reason that really like freaked me the hell out you know yeah sounds freaky yeah Yeah. Yeah. They don't really show it, but they show enough.

And I'm like, Oh, like I, cause I guess it was like, you know, Oh, the guys in a wheelchair is terrible. Like I guess I never really thought about,

can a guy in a wheelchair feel his genitals. And at the age of 15 or whatever, this was a big deal. It was a shocking moment in your life. And then there was like a lot of like sixties music. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Uh, I just think we should leave it there. Oh, the handmaid's tale. That's the only other one in there. like a lot of like 60s music yes yeah yeah uh i just think we should leave it there oh the handmaid's tale that's the only other one in not a bad film and you know what original adaptation i mean to watch i intend to watch uh the new one reed morano is quite good i liked her independent film meadowland yeah meadowland was good yeah no she's a good director but i did see the volker schlorff, if I may use that expression, film later. Are you testing if I'm a replicant right now? Later in life.

Yeah, he's culturally insensitive. And it was good. I mean, I'm sure nowhere near as good as the Volker. No, it's sort of an odd little thing. All right, Jordan,

you got to get out of here. I do, but I feel bad. I was the guy who had to bring up the penis aspect in the gun, and I'm just talking about Tom Cruise's penis. That was good.

I want to let listeners know that I don't normally, it's when I'm around. You're not as phallic. No, it's when I see you, Dave. I mean, look, we're crazy about Mack Weldon. If you're thinking about underwear

all the time, you know, of course it's going to come up. I mean, this episode was, of course, brought to you by Mack Weldon. Comfort. And we're glad to have it be brought to you by them. And such a funny coincidence I mean, this episode was, of course, brought to you by Mack Weldon. Comfort. And we're glad to have it be brought to you by them. And such a funny coincidence

that they sponsored this episode and we also ended up talking about them for 10 minutes. Isn't it kind of nice how that happens organically? I mean, it's a good thing because we would have talked about them for no reason otherwise. Absolutely. Jordan, people can follow you on Twitter. They can listen to Engage. Oh, yes. If you like Star Trek, and even if you

don't, you can listen to my podcast, which you can find anywhere. Engage. And I'm on Twitter, Jay Hoffman. They can listen to Engage. Oh yes, if you like Star Trek, and even if you don't, you can listen to my podcast, which you can find anywhere. Engage. And I'm on Twitter, Jay Hoffman. You can read my movie reviews on The Guardian, Vanity Fair. They're all over the place. Damn right. I've got a piece in an upcoming magazine which is only

subscribers that have the Amex Blackcard can read. Wow. Well, there you go. Hey, it's a great new media world we all live in. I'll write for whomever wants. But if you, you know, by and large, you can find me at home. Just come by. Yeah. Okay.

Come by. We'll hang out. Jordan's home. He'll be hanging out there with the door open. Ron Silver will have already arrived. I'll be in my Mack Weldon underwear. Hey, Mack Weldon, baby. Yeah. Thank you all for listening.. Hey, Mack Weldon, baby.

Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Go to reddit.blankies.com for some real nerdy shit. Thanks to Antford Guto for our social media. Thank you to Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds for our artwork. Lee Montgomery for our theme song. Big thanks to Mack Weldon for... Sponsoring this episode. Supporting this podcast.

Clothes on genitals. Yep. And as always, I should state right here that I have, since recording the last episode, been corrected. Forgot about this. The woman who married into my family. Right. And then became the first American to get the bubonic plague in 100 years

was not a Dixie chick. Different person. Right, right, right. Different person. Okay. What? You have to listen to the last episode, Jordan. You gotta go back and listen to the last episode.

And then you'll know. There are two different people who are connected to my family through marriage. One of them was the Dixie chick who left the Dixie chicks and the other one got bubon Plague. So and as always as I say at the end of every single episode there is no former member

of the Dixie Chicks who also is a survivor of the Bubonic Plague.