Blank Check with Griffin & David - Broadcast News with Katey Rich

Episode Date: March 25, 2018

Katey Rich (Vanity Fair) returns to discuss 1987’s dramedy masterpiece, Broadcast News. But what journalist and news producer helped inspire and advise Brooks? What actress was originally the female lead but backed out last minute? Who is Charlie? Together they examine the careers of Holly Hunter, Albert Brooks and William Hurt, the amazing screenwriting and more! This episode is sponsored by WeTransfer.com and Casper (casper.com/check PROMO: CHECK)

No, I'm semi-serious here. You're seriously- He will be attractive. He'll be nice and helpful. He'll get a job where he influences a great God-fearing nation. He'll never do an evil thing. He'll never deliberately hurt a living thing. He will just bit by little bit lower our standards where they are important. Just a tiny little bit.

Just coax along, flash over substance. Just a tiny little bit. And he'll talk about all of us being salesmen. And he'll get all the great podcasts. Fucking hell. Hello everybody, I'm Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims. Hi, right, I'm involved in this podcast. Yes, hi. We are a co-host.

We are hashtag the two friends. It's a proprietary advantage. This is a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And talk about a guy who had massive success early

on in his career. First time at bat hits a full-on home run. And now he's got a toll check to make whatever he wants. And he makes what I would argue is, his finest film. Same. I think most now.

Yeah, right. That's kind of the consensus. That's got to be almost unanimous. There's one perfect movie where everyone goes like, oh, great. This guy's cracked the code. And now he's going to make 20 of the greatest comedies of all time. And then that didn't happen. Yeah.

He mentored some really good directors. Well, we're, yeah. He made some movies with redeeming qualities. Yeah. He mentored some really good directors. Well, we're, yeah. He made some movies with redeeming qualities. Yeah, for sure. But this is the nexus and then he never totally makes it all

gel in the same way. He then makes a literal fortune on The Simpsons like right after this. That's another thing that happens. That's like, almost parallel, right?

Like The Simpsons is 87. He had a very good 1987. Well, this is, I guess Tracy Ullman is on while this is coming out. No, The Simpsons is 89. Is when the show starts up. Right, right. I I guess, Tracy Ullman is on while this is coming out. No, The Simpsons is 89. Is when the show starts up.

Right, right, right. I think 87 was Tracy Ullman, right? Yes. In April 19th, 1987. Yeah, so talk about a year where the die is cast. I mean, I had an okay year, but... You had a good year. I know, but...

87, it was my first full year on the planet because I was born in 86. Yeah, you learned how to chew food, but but James Earl Brooks did this. I'm right where Charlie is right now. I was right where Charlie is right now. Yeah, there you go. Do you guys miss Charlie? He's one of the better guests we've met. I'm just talking to you right now. You gotta say who Charlie is. We're gonna talk about all this stuff.

Well, yeah, just clarify. Oh, I get what he's doing. He's talking in our ear right. Tell him to listen to us. Come on. That is, of course, Oh, I get what he's doing. He's talking in our ear right now. Join the listeners. Come on. See it. Okay, that's of course. That is, of course, Washington Bureau Chief Ben Hosley.

Oh, yeah, that should be his name. Yeah. A.K. Producer Benny. A.K. The Ben Ducer. A.K. The Poet Laureate. A.K. The Haas. A.K. Mr. Positive. A.K. Mr. Positive.

A.K. Tiebreaker. Finest Film Critic. The Peeper. The Fart Detective. The Meat Lover. The Poet Laureate. Did I say that one already? Soak and Wet Benny. Birthday Benny. White.a. Mr. Hosoday, a.k.a. Tiebreaker, our finest film critic, The Peeper, The Far Detective, The Meat Lover, The Poet Laureate, I say that one already, So Can We, Benny,

Birthday Benny, White Hot Benny, He's graduated to different titles over the course of different media series, such as Kylo, Ben, Producer Ben, Kenobi, Sense,

Ben, Say, Ben, I shall not say Ben anything, Ailey Ben's with a dollar sign, War, Hos, Ben 19, The Fennel Maker, and Robo Hos. Well done. Wow.

Yeah, this is a producer movie. This is a movie about a producer. It sure is. We should just be all Ben. I just want to look at Ben and go, Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, Bobby. The name of the miniseries is... As Pod as it Casts.

Oh, you asshole. It's podcast news. It's called As Pod as it Casts, and we'll decide later which one it is. We're saying both right now. It's pod broadcast news. That was Ben's suggestion. Pod broadcast news.

That's the best one by far. Just leave it all in. Ben, leave it all in. Leave it all on the table. We are recording this episode of miniseries in advance. We haven't finished the previous miniseries because we have an amazing guest in town. We had to reschedule everything because there was a window of opportunity here.

Exactly. Joan Cusack was running through the hallway with files just to stop you from recording before I got here. And our guest jumped over a small child in order to get to the studio. And under an open file She is now officially joining the Three Timers Club. That's right. The Three Timers

Club and is officially joining the two timer without a baby club does she count as a four timer because she's actually on both Titanic episodes though

but I'm not didn't I leave no you are you are at the beginning well then that brings up a question is EO a five timer by now

yes I'm gonna weigh in no wow I think when you get into do you count Kill Bill

as one movie or two movies um two movies Kill Bill's two movies I mean yeah Kill Bill's two movies but like

is the best of both worlds two Star Trek episodes or is it just one right and you know that's more what it's like to me

it's like a two part TV episode. Right. And in Hannah Montana slash Miley Cyrus, the best of both worlds, the 3d concert movie, is that one person or these two aspects of the same person? I mean,

you're going to sit here and tell me that mocking Jay part one and two are like the same movie. I mean, those are two epic events. Those, those are, and they have different thematic concerns. Anyway,

uh, Katie Rich is here. Hello. Now should we explain who Charlie is? Yes, Charlie is the baby. I cannot believe you have me bring a baby

to this recording studio. Not to the old recording studio. Yeah, that's the thing. So this recording studio that we have been in for a while now is three or four times

the size of our last. I think it's more technically not a closet. Yeah. It's one way to think about it. And how old was your baby Charlie?

He was about five months old, I think. So, yeah, I mean, now he is a toddler who would rip all of the cords out of the wall. It would be, I mean, I would not do it again with a five-month-old. I definitely wouldn't do it with a 17-month-old, and I cannot believe you guys let me do that. But that's, you wanted to talk about

Titanic that badly. I just need, one moment, Ben has pulled a banana out of nowhere, and is You wanted to talk about Titanic that badly. I just need... One moment. Ben has pulled a banana out of nowhere and is eating it like he's in a banana commercial. Wait, I gotta take a picture for my Ben style. He's holding the banana up right now. Are there banana commercials? I just want a snack.

Okay? Bananas are a good snack. All right, I'm behind the seats. I'm just manning the boards, making sure that everybody's looking at the right camera, talking on the right microphone. Eating a nanner. Eating a nanner. Continue, sorry. How's Charlie doing? You know, he's walking and talking.

He loves bananas, actually. I feel like this is kind of some viral marketing for a baby. There's a banana on mic. Have you already trained him in the ways of Oscar prognostication? Does he have a pick? You know what we watched a little bit of was Lego Batman. Oh.

In your honor. He was into it. He likes things with songs better. Okay. We watched Moana a good bit. How do you know if he's into it? It's just that he's sort of like quiet. How do you know?

In the words of Jimmy L. Or in the words of Amy Adams in Enchanted, which is, you know. Sure. Great song., you know. Sure. Yeah. Great song. Oscar nominated song. No, like he watches Sesame Street enough. Like when the song for the letter of the day starts, like he pays attention and then like

goes back to wandering around to do whatever he wants. Has he watched Coco yet? Yeah. We watched part of Coco. Yeah. It was good. We didn't get to the part where you like weep and think about mortality in your family. Yeah.

I feel a little tough. He'll get there. Yeah. Yeah. The opening remembered me. That's fun. Yeah, I feel a little tough. He'll get there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The opening remembered me. That's fun. Yeah. That's a lot of fun.

He's on a stage with lights and then he dies. Spoiler for the first five minutes of Coco. Does he get killed by a bell? He gets killed by a bell. Yeah. Coco's great. Yeah. We may have already talked about Coco.

We've probably talked about it every episode. Have the Oscars happened by the time people hear this? Let me check. I think we'll be nudging up against them, right? No. Have the Oscars happened by the time people hear this? Let me check. I think we'll be nudging up against them. No, the Oscars have happened. Wow. People, congratulations to... To best picture winner.

So on our Munich episode, we correctly predicted, or I correctly predicted, Moonlight. You correctly... I can't remember. I'm sorry. Go fuck yourself. I can't remember. I literally can't remember. You were still La La Land. Fucking Todd was La La Land. I was like, money on the barrel, Moonlight.

Now, I believe in a previous episode, I predicted Get Out. Yes, David predicted Get Out will win Best Picture. Did you not predict Dunkirk on air somewhere? Because you've been predicting that. So let me just make a third prediction. Lady Bird. All right, great. So happy that that won.

Cover your bases. Do you want to predict someone who's going to be accused of social harassment between now and then? That's been a running kind of bit. I don't know. By bit, Ben means we talk about filmmakers and actors and then half of them have been accused by the time the episode comes out. Because if we record an episode even 12 hours in advance, we've somehow put our foot in our mouth. Where we're like, we're only going to talk about Mr. Rogers disaster strikes

we talked about cameras in the other episode then suddenly the Ari Bowflex got accused of hostile work environment how is Charlie? I miss him almost as much as I miss me you

I look forward to teaching him how to be on podcasts in like. You. I, you know, I look forward to teaching him how to be on podcast in like five years. I don't know. No, but you did the right thing. You already got him on one early. So at least he's comfortable in front of the mic.

I know. He likes to talk. So, you know, if you like, let us Skype in someday. He was born in Manhattan. I don't know when he'll get to come back, but when he does,

he will. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You can teach him everything he'll never learn about riding the subway. Yeah uh yeah we gotta have charlie back well this this show is going to go on for 25 years oh 100 correct yeah that's this is going to be our simpsons i remember one time early on you and i in the star wars days i can't you know i don't remember when yes our salad days in our yes exactly just being where we know, I don't remember when. Yeah, so our salad days. In our, yes, exactly.

Just being, where we were like, I don't know, we were talking about the future in some way and you were like, and I was like, what if you have to like move to LA or something? You're like, it's fine,

we'll just do it. We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. We'll just keep doing it. I think I also said that won't happen in my career, so. I distinctly remember that conversation. That's bullshit.

Listen, to plug my own podcast, I've been doing Fighting in the War Room for seven years now. And it's like two of us have left New York City. It has kept going. Lucky number seven. Honestly, having a podcast is a nice thing, guys.

Can I say, and we do have to talk about our movie at hand because we have about five hours of conversation to get to. Not a short movie either. But the thing I like about Charlie is already he is an emotionally accessible podcaster because he was comfortable crying on mic in our episode. I know. Really to transition into you guys becoming a Marin style confessional podcast. I'm asking him on Marin. He would just unlock those gates

like crazy. I think I would go a little something like this. I didn't like that. That was my impression of Marc Marin. I'm looking at my most recent Charlie your most recent Charlie who are you guys who are your diapers

alright great to have you back I'm so happy to be back okay I'm glad you're happy so this is one of the greatest movies ever made yep it's called Broadcast News

it is Broadcast News Broadcast News it's a direct follow up to a Best Picture winner yeah although it took him a few years because Terms is Best Picture winner. Yeah, although it took him a few years

because Terms is 83, right? Right, and then this is 87. He takes four years. He's a meticulous director. Was he doing anything else in that period? I think he was probably producing like half a dozen things.

Let's look it up. The taxi was on the air at this point, right? I'm going to look it up. Okay. He was doing other shows, but this becomes the thing of like, if you want a Brooks movie,

he's going to do it on his own schedule. And especially because it's interesting because he came out of the meat grinder of television, where even though he was a very deliberate, thoughtful writer, it's like, you just got to make it. You got to put a slice of pizza out there every week. It doesn't matter if it's perfect. And he fought a lot of

sort of doubt when he went into making Terms of Endearment, because you can't go from TV to movies. You're a sitcom guy. You can't make movies. Taxi goes off the air in 83. Weirdly,

he has no credits in between Terms of Endearment and Broadcast News. I believe he spent most of these years writing and researching this movie. He said he spent

like two years researching. It was worth it. Yes. I mean, it's such a fucking detailed movie. Because like, Luke Grant is off the air

by 82. Wow. Tracy Ullman doesn't start as we mentioned until 87. So it's such a fucking detailed movie cause like Luke Grant is off the air by 82 wow Tracy Ullman doesn't start as we mentioned until 87 so it's like he is kinda chillin

I mean he's richer than God so he can do whatever he wants that's the crazy thing he was already richer than God from television

before he helped create The Simpsons exactly right yes it's worth mentioning that Terms of Endearment was also crazy

successful in addition to being critically beloved it was one of the highest grossing films of the year Yes. It's worth mentioning that Terms of Endearment was also crazy successful. In addition to being critically beloved, it was one of the highest-grossing films of the year. So he really kind of now had—it's the thing we are drawn to with directors on the show. He kind of made a space for himself. Immediately with one movie, it was like, this is what a James L. Brooks movie is. And you marry that to the whole history of what he had done in television and how he'd sort of quietly pushed progress into representation, you know, in a very white bread way. But Mary Tyler Moore was like this big game changer and everything.

And doing sort of a little more erudite, Tony, multi-camera sitcoms. And then even just shit like taking Lou Grant, putting him onto a drama. Like he was a guy who was experimenting a lot of interesting ways. Turns to Deer and blows up and he wants to make a movie about journalists. Now he started out thinking he wanted to be a news guy. He worked at news stations when he was young. Before he got roped up into all of this business. So he decides this is what I want to do and spends like four years pretty much researching it.

Do we know where he was? Yes. I can tell you all of the context. Well, you, I hear you're a connoisseur. That's what I was waiting for. I was waiting for it. Damn it. We're both connoisseurs of context.

Did you mention that we were the two friends? I can't remember. I did. It's a proprietary of National Podcast. Have a go. So he starts hanging out.

Susie? With Susie, Susan, Susan Zirinsky of CBS News. I call her Susan. Fair enough. Yeah.

Who I believe is even credited as a producer on the movie. And technical advisor. Yeah, both. And who Holly Hunter modeled her whole look on. And who he based the character off of. Yes, of course. It's all about her. The crying stuff all comes from her.

Right. Right. Where he just starts shadowing her at CBS News where she's at the Washington Bureau. Mm-hmm. where he just starts shadowing her at CBS News where she's at the Washington Bureau. And like just that she had joined the Washington Bureau when she was 20. This is the days back before journalists went to school. Fuck school. You learn on the job.

Yeah. And just worked at CBS for like decades. She's now a senior producer on 48 Hours, I think. You want to see a picture of her? You had a movie with her? Oh, yeah. I'm glad you know how to spell her name because I was like,

wow, look at her. And she's Holly Hunter sized. She's Holly Hunter sized, i.e. short. Wait, what was she wearing in the mid-80s? Because this is the main thing I want to know.

Like, was she wearing long floral skirts and large sweaters? And does she have a bow? That's a great question. Like, the dress with the big bow on it at the correspondence dinner. I mean, I could talk about the fashion of this for about

45 minutes. Everything about this movie. I'm trying to find young Susan Zerinsky because there's a lot of current day. There's a Criterion edition of this movie that's excellent with a very long making of sort of retrospective documentary. There's one about James L. Brooks at large

and there's one about this film in particular and there's a lot of Zerinsky interviews and I think a lot of photos of herive documentary. There's one about James L. Brooks at large, and there's one about this film in particular, and there's a lot of Zerinsky interviews, and I think a lot of photos of her from the time, but I haven't rewatched it. Highly recommend it, though. He wrote the part for Deborah Winger. Yes. She was going to be in the movie.

And then she got pregnant, like three months before filming, and Holly Hunter was sort of just starting to happen. Raising Arizona was kind of the big thing. Raising Arizona was the same year, wasn't it? Raising Arizona was the same year. Yeah. Which is wild.

She was not starting to happen. I mean, like, she's in like swing shift. Right. Yeah, and she's, I don't think she's even in Blood Simple. She's like a voice or something. Right. Do you know what I think every time I watch this movie? Can you imagine

how exciting it must have been to be the casting director and have Holly Hunter walk in? Holly Hunter's the greatest. Yeah. Especially if you don't know that Holly Hunter is like one of the greatest

actresses of all time. She's just someone on a list and you go, Holly Hunter? Yeah. And she walks in and starts doing this? Yeah, and she's got that accent

and she's five feet tall. I've discovered a movie star. I've given someone the role that's going to give one of the best performances of all time and also now we have a movie. Yeah. Yep. Like Debra Winger would have done a really good job in this. She's a very good actress, but there's lightning in a bottle in this movie with how Hunter fits this role so well and also

the energy of someone knowing they're getting the big shot. Yeah, because that's what the movie is about too. It's about somebody who is chasing that big shot at all moments, kind of at the expense of everything else around her and is not going to like stop going after it. And she's such a weird movie star because she's like two foot one. Yeah. She's very small.

She's super aggressive. Yep. She's like a little blunderbuss. She's got a high pitched voice, but also like a really heavy twang. She's got a squeaky voice with this crazy sort of Georgia. Right. But she's got this like Tasmanian devil energy. Yeah. I love her. Yeah. She's the a squeaky voice with this, yeah, crazy sort of Georgia, yeah. Right, but she's got this like Tasmanian devil energy.

Yeah. I love her. Yeah, she's the best. Let me give you some, I just want to talk about Holly Hunter for a while. So she's born in Georgia.

We know that. She's from Georgia. Took a midnight train down there. So she's from, she's from near Katie Rich. Yeah, I was born in Georgia,

actually. She's from, barely just over the border. Conyers? Coiners? Conyers is right outside of Atlanta. She's from? Barely just over the border. Conyers? Coiners? Conyers is right outside of Atlanta. That's where she's from. Yeah.

Okay. Yes, 24 miles east of Atlanta. Okay. She goes to Carnegie Mellon like they all have, just the classic Hollywood track. Right. Gets a degree in drama. Moves to New York City with who? Frances McDormand.

Frances McDormand. Fran McDormand. They were roommates. Lives where? In the Cohn's apartment, right?ormand. Fran McDormand. They were roommates. Lives where? In the Cohn's apartment, right? At the end of the D train. Oh, okay.

Yeah, in the Bronx. You know, up in like Arthur Avenue territory, you know. Yeah. Starts doing what? Plays.

Off Broadway. She gets mad. Yeah. No. And then, yeah, she moves to LA in 82, but she's basically not in a movie for five years.

Yeah. Has that little role in Swing Shift. That's it. But the big thing was it was the two of them hanging out with the Coens at that time. Yeah, man. Right. So they kind of were lucky enough to be in the right place

and identify two of the best actresses of a generation. How did they never put Frances McDormand and Holly Hunter together? Like, to team them? I mean, it's a lot of energy for one movie. Yeah. A lot of energy. Are they never in a movieormand and Holly Hunter like together like to team them I mean it's a lot of energy for one movie A lot of energy Are they never in a movie together? I don't think so

Now that's blowing my mind Well no no no They're both in Oh Brother Where Art Thou And Frances McDormand's in Raising Arizona No they're not Yes Frances McDormand is

in Raising Arizona That's the one I'm thinking of When she comes over That's like the only time they've ever done a scene together And Frances McDormand is doing a very not Frances McDormand-y kind of part

where she's kind of like the airhead friend You gotta get a something What's the thing? I'm sure there's another one and now I'm like struggling to think And Frances McDormand is doing a very not Frances McDormand-y kind of part where she's kind of like the airhead friend. So you got to get something. What's the thing? I'm sure there's another one. And now I'm like struggling to think. I guess there isn't though.

Yeah. That's weird. Sorry. Why aren't they? Yeah, they should all hang out. It's very bizarre. I mean, in a movie. Yeah. It is those weird things about like when you find out decades after that two iconic, huge movie stars were close friends before they were famous

and then their careers just never passed like how uh connie britain and lauren graham were uh roommates for many years really i love that i love that fact it's a great fact let's only talk about women on this podcast yes then we won't be like tarnished months later when it turns out the fucking you know yeah uh anyway um because you know what role she gets off of broadcast news? That was supposed to be the next like huge. Always. Now Spielberg's brought her in. She's going to be Audrey Hepburn.

Yeah. Right, which is Spielberg seeing her in this and being like she could be like the greatest like sort of old-fashioned romantic lead firecracker lady. Right. And she is. I think she's awesome in that movie but that movie is fucking bizarre yeah and then and then she goes more serious and does her run of like the piano she only makes one movie in between always in the piano she doesn't do a lot of movies unless

she really wants to i think then defer right right she's great. That's a double nomination year, right? Yes. And then Copycat. Oh, boy. Okay. Let's see what else we got. Crash, of course. Right. Good Crash. Right. Home for the Holidays.

Yeah. Great movie. A Jodie Foster film. A Life Less Ordinary. I didn't even remember she was in that. Yeah. And, you know, honestly, by the time it's the aughts, I feel like she's sort of like the supporting player who will pop up in your movie once in a while. She's already not a lead anymore.

It was surprising when she got the 13 nomination, too. She's so good in that. That movie's stupid, but she's so good in that. She's one of the best actors alive. Yeah, for sure. But she also, I don't know, she holds back. She makes us yearn for more Holly Hunter. Well, she had a 46-episode series on USA.

Right, fuck, it's even great. That's a thing we never think about. That show was really weird. Really weird. Well, that was a period where she, Keira Sedgwick, Glenn Close, and someone else. Mary McCormick, who doesn't quite fit. Yeah, they all like their series on cable

yes characters were welcome at that time and place especially in the various Turner networks yeah cause she did the Positively True Adventures

of the Alexis Texas Cheerleader Murdering Mom that's another big TV movies of the oh and of course we're forgetting

she played Ro in Ro vs. Wade which is another TV movie she drank a jar of Granny's Peach Tea in BVS DOJ. Yes, she did. She did. She's been nominated for how many Oscars? Four?

Four if she gets nominated for The Big Sick. Oh, wow. Only three? Which I'm assuming she will. Yeah, it's this, it's the piano, and it's 13. Yep, that's it. Now, I need to talk about the thing. If we're going to talk about

Holly. No, I'm sorry. Four because of the firm. Thank you. I forgot about the firm. So it'll be five with the big six. Because the firm nomination

is so weird. Double nomination in one year. No, it's the Julianne Moore. Yes. Except it worked for her. It worked for her. She won.

Right. And what's her name? Jessica Lange pulled off the same trick. She would not have won for Tootsie if she didn't have Francis that same year. Right. Yes. Yes.

Usually the double nomination, they give you one of them. Yeah. Sigourney whiffed twice in one night. So did Julie Moore. It's been a while since that's happened. Yeah. Is Julian Moore the last one? Moore is the last one for sure. Jimmy Foxx.

What? Oh, fuck. Yeah. Plateral and Reign. Did he really get nominated for collateral? He should have been a lead. Yeah. That should have been his nomination. Jimmy Foxx. What? Oh, fuck, yeah. Collateral and Reign. Did he really get nominated for Collateral? He should have been a lead. That should have been

his nomination. Well, he is good in Reign. Did Leo do it at the Oscars or was it only... It was at the SAG. Oh, yeah, like at the Globes where he was in Blood Diamond.

Oh, for Departed and Blood Diamond? Yeah, that was SAG. Because SAG, strict categories. So you can only vote for them within a category. Golden Globe gave him a lead for Departed.

SAG gave him supporting for Departed. This is what happens when Katie is on the podcast. You've already had this year's blankies with Joe so I'm just bringing it all back. That's true. We probably just did that a month ago. What categories do I do this year? You gotta think. On the record, what categories are you going to do?

Who's going to get the best movie that should have had hand puppets as all the actors? I don't know. Yeah, let's take time to have you brainstorm what you're going to do two weeks ago. This is a great segment that people want to hear, Ben. Ding dong. Griff, get the door. Okay, let me just.

I recognize that music ah hello oh boy it's a me Luigi I was wondering you never know they're similar looking colorblind it's a me

well thanks for pointing that out, Luigi. Is this tech support? Uh, this is a blank check podcast. Podcast studio. Oh, no, I need help. What's the problem, Luigi? I want to transfer my Wii games. I need a Wii transfer.

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that slash fic gets my blood boiling. I was thinking more of film clips, but yeah, you're right. The slash fic. Just because you don't open the files doesn't mean I haven't sent them to you. Honestly, you can stop sending it to us. We don't want to. It's almost too easy to get them with WeTransfer too.

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Okay, so where were we? This is a necessary thing to talk about because this has been a big aspect of my life. Okay. My mother looks a lot like Holly Holly Hunter and people think my mom is Holly Hunter your mother does look a lot like Holly Hunter it's weird like I haven't even met your mother I've only seen her if that makes sense like at the time we saw Star Wars at the Ziegfeld

and you met her I have yes his mom was there his mom famously got up right before Han Solo got killed on screen. Spoiler alert. And at the end of the movie,

she said, isn't it weird that Han Solo is just not in the last 20 minutes at all? At the end, they show everyone saying goodbye. And Leia looks so sad

and we don't know why. It's so funny. I remember her getting up and wanting to say to this woman I have not met, be like, no, no, don't just sit down. This tiny, flinty Holly Hunter-esque woman.

She's quite small-framed. My mom, very similar build to Holly Hunter, very similar hair color, fairly similar facial shapes. Frencher. Frencher. Yeah, I would assume not with a thick Georgia accent. Right. She's French, but she speaks in a pretty standard transatlantic kind of accent.

And then, but they have very similar looks and they dress fairly similarly. And especially like, I'd say 10 or 12 years ago, there was like a point of confluence where my mom was getting stopped all the time.

Where she went to a clothing store, someone would be like, hey, can I help you? And like, the employees would like bend over backwards and start calling her Ms. Hunter. Oh man.

Yeah. Sure. I can't wish I. Oh man. Yeah, sure. I can't wish I could do her. Dash, I need you to run as fast as you can. That's pretty good. She's gentler in The Incredibles slightly. She has that area. I also think my mom looks like Elastigirl. Yeah.

I love Holly Hunter. Anyway, I don't know if I told this story in the podcast before, but I was talking, I was new at a high school, right? It was my freshman year of high school. I had just gotten there. I had two friends who knew me well enough and had met my parents and knew for a fact my mom wasn't Holly Hunter.

And I was talking to them about the fact that everyone thinks my mom's Holly Hunter. And they were like, what if we pretend that your mom's Holly Hunter? So the next day or whatever it was, a couple weeks later, the Oscar nominations come out she gets the 13th nomination oh and in a pre-smartphone era where people couldn't

get that information people come to me and they said like hey I heard you have the Oscar what are the Oscar nominations because they knew I'd memorized all of them

already you had a brand I stayed in late you know so I could watch nominations before I went to school and what I would do was

I would announce them while one of those two friends was around me. And I'd go, best supporting actress Marsha Gay Harden, Mystic River, Renee Zellweger, Old Mountain, Holly Hunter 13. And then one of them would go, oh my god, your mom got nominated? Yeah, yeah. So anyway, and I would

just keep on moving. So hooray, Gashaloo, House of Santa Fog. So it would make them ask like, wait, who's Griffin's mom Oh yeah You had like your confidence man Like your plant in the audience Right

So then people kept on saying Like your mom got nominated I was like yeah Yeah But I just would never say it I would act coy You had to play cool about it Someone asked me

So what How did your mom react And I was like Oh she was still sleeping When I left for school And next week The Entertainment Weekly Oscar issue comes out. You know they do their little profile of each of the actors.

They said, so how did one-time winner and four-time nominee Holly Hunter react to the news of her latest nomination? I was sleeping at the time. I didn't find out about it. And everyone came back to me and was like, we thought you were lying, but you were telling the truth. So I went by Griffin Hunter Newman for a lot of high school to try to trick people into it. Did you feel like you were trapped in the lie at that point? Or did you feel like it was really benefiting you? No, I felt like Steve Ranazzisi.

I felt totally oppressed by the lie I had made. Remember Steve Ranazzisi? Yeah. I told my mom because my sister Romley was much younger. So she'd come by to pick up Romley from like preschool which was in the same building. I said like if you come by you don't have to lie to anyone. You don't have to say Oh so you told her you like owned up fast.

I was like if someone comes up to you and says Miss Hunter don't correct them. If they ask you what your name is you can be honest. And she went along with this. Do you think we could get him on the pod? Rain is easy? Yeah. Yeah he told me he'd do it but I don't know if he's telling the truth. He told you he'd do it right after he gets off work at Merrill Lynch. Yes.

Sorry. If you Google me online, my name still comes up with Hunter in it in most places. My mom's pretty angry about it. My mom calls the photos of her in the big sick now. Wait, what? When you Google me. Yes. Now that there's more information out about me.

You're saying your Wikipedia entry's wrong? Every other name I have there is true. Griffin, Claude, Beresford, Dauphin, Hunter, Newman. One of those is false. I'm deleting Hunter. Don't do it! Why not? My mom will be really happy.

Because your high school friends will finally figure out you've been lying about this. Yeah, my mom thinks I've been forcefully reasserting that lie. And I'm like the internet is a life of its own because that was like my Facebook name

when I was 15 so now everyone like edits it into everything because they thought it was real. So are like your high school classmates editing your Wikipedia entry?

I don't know. I have no idea how anything works anymore. I don't really know how it works either. But I went to go see The Big Sick with Romilly and literally every outfit

Holly Hunter wears in that movie is a collection of clothing items that my mom has and I couldn't pay attention to those. I like what she wears in that movie. She dresses very well. My mom's a stylish lady. She looks comfortable. Yeah. Anyway, I've always felt like a kinship to Holly Hunter because of that. I feel like this was

maybe one of the first times I watched Raising Arizona really young but didn't like it at the time. Raising Arizona is like the best. Yeah, it took me weirdly a long time to realize that. I adore that movie. I watched it when I was like below. You love that movie, right? Katie, I feel like we've talked about Raising Arizona.

I usually, it's like picking favorite Coens I feel like is like every day you can pick a different one. Yeah. But like I often default to Raising Arizona as my favorite Coen. Yeah. Wow. I think it's a decent favorite Coen. I do too. This was probably the first time I really engaged with Holly Hunter in a full force way

after knowing for years just about her being a doppelganger to my mother. But you didn't see this until you were older, right? I saw this when I was like 10. Oh, man. Because there was that AFI 100 funniest movies special that they did. Like 100 years, 100 laughs. Funny times for funny people. They did a primetime special.

Shout out to Mike Ryan. Shout out to Mike Ryan. Shout out to Mike Ryan. They did a primetime special with a countdown, and at Blockbuster, they would hand out a little booklet with 100 movies, and I became obsessed with going through all of them. Because I was a connoisseur of comedy. Before I was a connoisseur of context.

Are we going to talk about the movie? Yes. Okay. Broadcast news charted really high, so I remember watching it very young. He's got all these fucking stories. And liking it, but also I was 10, and I was like, why is this so sad? Yep. Like I had a it very young. He's got all these fucking stories. And liking it, but also I was 10.

I was like, why is this so sad? Yep. Like I had a hard time swallowing the sadness to it. Cause you're also watching like Animal Crackers or like Right.

Yeah. Python. Right. Um, and then I probably didn't see it again until maybe I was 19 and then was like, oh,

this is one of the greatest films ever made and I watch it once a year now. Are you talking about Raising Arizona? I'm talking about broadcast news. I am on topic. Hey, just checking in from the booth. Are we going to talk about Albert Brooks' career? Are we going to get into the plot?

Where are we at? I got it. Okay, good. Don't worry. You brag about how you keep us on track. Yeah, well. Jesus, he's on and on about God knows what. We'll establish a rhythm.

We'll be like sex. Feed me the lines. You're the connoisseur of context. And now I would like to discuss And the thing I'd like to discuss now is Albert Brooks and his career. They call him Tomcats. I hate this bit. They call him Tomcats, right? Yeah. It's one of the hardest

plans to follow. Are you riffing on me, Griffin? It's a rhythm. It's exciting. I mean, Brooks is, riffing on me Griffin it's a rhythm I mean Brooks is I mean Lost in America comes out in 85 Brooks is just sort of established at this point right I mean he was like a huge

icon of cult comedy he was like a Tonight Show favorite Tonight Show favorite he'd been on done his SNL right did all the short films

and stuff I mean he has one of the best like a star is born stories ever like better than the like Lana Turner being discovered okay I want to hear this story we're going to talk about shorts and stuff. I mean, he has one of the best like a star is born stories ever. Like better than the like Lana Turner being discovered at the grocery store. Okay, I want to hear this story.

We're going to talk about the movie. He was born Albert Einstein as we all know. Yes. But do you know this story? He went to Carnegie Mellon just like Holly Hunter. Before that.

Yeah, go on. He was born Albert Einstein because his parents thought they were really funny. Uh-huh. His brother, Bob Einstein, also known as Marty Funkhauser

and Super Dave Osborne right he was childhood best friends with Rob Reiner they grew up next to the Reiner

fair enough and Rob Reiner son of Carl of course and in the late 60s early 70s maybe okay

Carl Reiner was on the Tonight Show and Johnny Carson asked him who do you think is the funniest person alive and his answer was my son's friend Albert.

Right. And he gave a whole speech about how his son's 10 year old friend Albert Brooks was the funniest person alive. And how Rob Reiner is not worth a damn.

Right. But he was like kind of anointed at that moment. Yeah. And it took him a while to start popping but like

he always had this glow around him because it was like Carl Reiner at the peak of his powers said he was the funniest person alive right so he was like on the Tonight Show

like 20 times in his early 20s was making short films for Saturday Night Live like was too big to join the cast of Saturday Night Live by the time Saturday Night Live started hmm did these stand-up albums

that were like legendary and then just was like I don't want to do stand-up ever again and just stopped yeah and then I'm making movies now uh yeah

and he starts doing that makes himself like an auteur yeah because he made Real Life which is I think 79 and just stopped. Yeah. And then, I'm making movies now. Yeah. And he starts doing that, makes himself like an auteur. Yeah, because he made Real Life, which is, I think, 79. Modern Love.

Modern Romance. Sorry. Which is 83, like, maybe? Let me look it up, actually. I want to know.

81. Sorry. Oh, boy, that was embarrassing. Then, Lost in America, which is,

in my opinion, a perfect movie. I weirdly have never been able to love that movie. That's why they call it Las Vegas Gambler. I'm all about Gary Marshall in that movie, giving the greatest performance in the history of cinema. That's what I'm quoting, yes. Santy Claus! So, yeah, he's an established, great comedian, right?

It's kind of a big move for him to be in this movie, though, because he was mostly doing his own films or little tiny bits and stuff. This is someone really using him as an actor. He had been in Taxi Driver, Let's Not Forget, which is his first film role. Which I don't remember at all. Oh, really? You should watch Taxi Driver. What a movie.

It's been a long time since I saw it. I don't remember him being in it. He kind of plays the same character. Yeah, he's Sybil Shepard. I was about to say, does he work with Sybil? Got it. Okay. I definitely saw Taxi Driver since I saw it. I don't remember him being in it. He kind of plays the same character. He's Sybil Shepard. I was about to say, does he work with Sybil Shepard? Got it. Okay.

I definitely saw Taxi Driver before I saw Broadcast News. He's in it a lot, though, and he has the, I believe he has a square box. No, maybe he doesn't.

It doesn't matter. He's also in Private Benjamin. Right. He dies over a kitchen sink. Yes. He's in Unfaithfully Yours, other thing that's a small role. So he did more, yeah.

And also, of course, he has made his movies, three of his movies. He's going to make Defending Your Life Next with Meryl Streep, which is a great movie. I agree with that. And yeah, he's Albert Brooks and I love him. He gets his one and only Oscar nomination for this movie. That's right, because they snubbed him for Drive which was weird.

Yeah man we all thought that was going to happen. He thought that was going to happen. Not only did we all think he won Lafka or no he didn't actually win Lafka. He won you know a zillion critics awards. I remember even after he got snubbed at the Globes they said look this is still a two person race. Between him

and whoever won that year. Is that Christopher Plummer here? I think it is the Plummer year. Plummer v. Brooks. Don Justin. It's not a weird one. He's good in that movie. And then the third leg of this triangle obviously is the Big Hurt. The Big Hurt.

How do you feel about Billy Hurt? I mean I have not finished your Lost in Space episode which is the most recent one. I love your wife. You have to go through the planet. I think it's hard. So I was trying to, I've seen The Big Chill also a million years ago,

and I tried to put it on the other day to be like, all right, this movie, and I got like 10 minutes in, and Charlie didn't want to watch it. So, you know, watching movies with babies is a challenge. The Big Chill is an incredibly watchable movie. Yeah, no, it's on Hulu. i'm like glad to know that it's there it did you know certain things about it sting a little bit where you're like oh okay who cares but you're also

saying i mean babies are kind of like armand white like they're very very selective very selective and uh yeah very mike d'angelo they walk out of a lot of movies oh yeah you know just so he wants to go play with some blocks instead. Who can blame him? I think I didn't, like, I was born in the 80s. I wasn't tuned into it. Like, I'm not up on my 80s prestige enough to get William Hurt movie star. Because, like, he was a gigantic movie star. This is the tail end of it. And, like, a heartthrob, too.

That's the other thing. He was, like, a sexy, let me give you Hurt. Well, because in this, you get the, like, news anchor heartthrob. Like, he's a heartthrob to the extent that, like, Peter Jennings was. Yeah, he has that preppy look he's got the like nice look about it but at this point

this is almost post-modern use of William Hurt yeah yes so Altered States is his first role

starring role which is great great film yeah Body Heat is the year after I know Griffin's a big fan of Body Heat

steams it up yeah sexy movie then you got The Big Chill yeah none of no Oscar nominations yet.

And Gorky Park, which is an underrated little thriller. Okay. Then 85, Kiss of the Spider Woman. He wins the Oscar. Yeah.

You know, wins everything. Great movie. He kisses a spider. And then 86, Children of a Lesser God. Yeah. Second Oscar nomination in a row.

He kisses a deaf woman. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I've never seen Children of a Lesser God. I haven't either. It's good. Yeah? No, I've never seen it. He Galaxy. I haven't either. It's good. Yeah?

No, I've never seen it. He was just feeding it the line. It's good. And then 87 broadcast news, third Oscar nomination for lead actor in a row, which I think was sort of like a crazy streak at the time. And then Accidental Tourist in 88. It's a big movie.

I watched that movie. It sucks. That movie is no good. I've never seen it. it's a big movie I watched that movie it sucks that movie is really no good I've never seen it it's a cast in it's like a super like man down

on his like luck falls in love with this wild woman who teaches him how to love again she's a classic manic prick yeah

it's crazy that like she never gets brought up in that mold because she's so right there in it cast ins don't hold up very well no

he's he's no good. I sadly agree. Alice. And then it's like, holy shit. Like, I'm going to read you names and you're not going to know it. Until the end of the world. The Doctor.

The Plague. Mr. Wonderful. Second best. Trial by jury. It's like, what happened? Was his agent, like, drunk? Like, for years? Well, he had a big drinking problem for a long time. Did he?

I think he had his demons and he was very very difficult I think he was one of those guys where they go like life too short for William Hurt doesn't matter how big a star he is

doesn't matter how good he is I don't want to put up with it and then it's like by the time you get to Lost in Space in 98 yeah it's like this he looks so furious

to be in that movie yeah and he's committed in some way. He is still doing his thing but he just looks mad about everything. And we talked about it he kind of boned out for a while after Lost in Space. Yeah well he's in One True Thing

the same year but then it's kind of just like he's like I'll do sure Steven Spielberg I'll do one scene in AI. I'll come out I'll do one scene. Two scenes. Cronenberg I'll come do two scenes. But then it felt like oh this is his new career revival, and then he didn't really take that baton and run with it. He keeps making movies, though.

It's just, oh, except for Thunderbolt Ross, of course, our favorite Marvel Universe character. Absolutely. Did he die in the newest one? No, they have him to a 20-picture deal. They're going to keep on using him. He's in Civil War. I do not remember anything.

I remember when we saw the Civil War trailer, and I said, can you imagine the marvel intern who's like going through the files and then just runs through the hallways going like wait we have five more pictures with william hurt we forgot we still got him put him on the poster um but yeah this isn't damages speaking of oh yeah he's recently been on something called Beowulf Return to the Shieldlands no he hasn't I don't believe you

I call shenanigans unfortunately he has he's Hrothgar shout out to Hrothgar he was also in Dune remember that oh right the TV

what do they like him in on Humans the BBC show why is he doing all these English shows I don't know fuck her does he live there

I think he was on that last season of Damages where everyone was on Damages, right? There's one season where like Marty Short, Lily Tomlin, Tate Donovan, John Goodman, Dylan Baker. There was some... Damages really was the show that got my billing brain just all wired up.

There was one season with like two withs and four ands or something where I was just like, I can't believe this is happening. I'm so happy right now. Also Van Damme. Billing on this is fascinating just because... Well, Holly's third bill. That's the thing. A year later, the billing would have been totally flipped. Brooks would always be two out of three. Yeah. And you notice they

at least in the closing credits, they spelled Joan Cusack's name wrong. Really? They leave out the second C. That's rude. Isn't that rude? That's very spelled Joan Cusack's name wrong. Really? They leave out the second C. That's rude. So she's like Isn't that rude? That's very harsh. Cusack.

Yeah, Cusack. Which I think is a way that people have spelled that name. It's probably the sort of original way, right? Probably. And she's already gotten fired from SNL at this point, right?

Probably. This is like in between You want me to do Cusack now? Yeah. And then let's do Robert Prosky. Oh yeah, can we do Cusack? What a legend. I've had Robert Prosky. Oh yeah, can we do Cusack? What a legend. I've had Robert Prosky's

career open in a tab since before we started. He's the best. Grandpa Fred from Gremlins 2, the new batch? We got to do a Gremlins 2 episode.

Yeah, we do. Yeah, she's on SNL from 85 to 86. So yeah, so she's already done her SNL run. She's out of the Hughes kind of teen comedy thing.

She was in 16 Candles. No, well, she's going to be in Say Anything though in 89. That's not Hughes though. Oh yeah, well, she's going to be in Say Anything, though, in 89. That's not Hughes, though. Oh, yeah. Right, right, right.

But at that point, she's an adult. She plays a single mother. Say Anything, dot, dot, dot. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. And then becomes

one of the quietest and least heralded two Time Academy Award nominees in history. And two weird nominations. Okay. I remember In-N-Out. I don't remember the other one.

Working Girl. Oh, yeah. The In-N-Out I don't remember the other one Working Girl oh yeah the In-N-Out nomination like I will treasure that she should be a five time nominee at this point oh yeah

she's the best she should have just won for In-N-Out she's so fucking good in fucking School of Rock I was gonna say she should have been nominated so fucking hard

for School of Rock nominator I'm really trying to find the damages season two opening credits and let me tell you it is not easy gonna do that all day

alright so Broadcast News opens with a little boy in a truck like all great movies do do we want to talk about this guy I think his name is Jack Nicholson he's in credit we'll mention him only at the end it's true he's not in the opening credits

but he is in the closing credits. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Once the surprise has been revealed. That is a thing that I don't think Jack Nicholson gets fully enough credit for, is for how big a movie star he was, how willing he was to play supporting parts. You know?

Like, even in terms of endearment, obviously, like Reds, you know, something like this where like, he's uncredited, but he's got a fair amount of stuff in this movie. Yeah. He's got one big scene and then, you know, like this where like he's uncredited but he's got a fair amount of stuff in this movie yeah he's got one big scene and then you know some pickups he filmed like three days sure

but it's more than just I mean he clearly just clearly with Brooks he's just like James anything you need that's pretty good Jimmy

I'll do anything except for I'll do anything which I for, I'll do anything. Which I won't do. That thing's a disaster. Because he's in three out of six Brooks or four? He's in three out of six. He's in four out of six.

Terms broadcast as good as it gets and how do you know? He's in four out of six. He's in four out of six. Two of his three Oscar wins come from Brooks. Which is nuts. And he's kind of wrong. Even though he's great in those movies that he won for, it's weird that that's how... And we'll cover this in its own episode,

but Bill Murray was fully set to play the dad in How Do You Know? And only dropped out of the film three days after filming started. When he refused to show up. And James L. Brooks was like, Jack, please, the movie's already on the rails. Help me out, my buddy, my pal. I got you two Oscars.

Can you please show up? And he's like, yeah, James, I'll do it as a favor to you. All I ask in return is $12 million. Well, they had already spent, what, $50 million on three days of production? Building an apartment or something. God knows what they spent that money on. We will get to that.

That is his last film appearance. $12 million, Jimmy. It's fine. Unless he makes that Tony Urban movie, which I'm all about. Or brings back Anchor Management. Yeah, Charlie Sheen already did it, but sure. Prequel.

How'd he get so mad? You have to... how did he get so mad you have to when Ben was saying that he was holding his arms out like Beetlejuice saying it's showtime it was like a triumphant

victory laugh of a joke god damn it can people hear you remove your headphones and discuss David I'm so angry about that so the movie starts in a truck with a very handsome little boy remove your headphones and discuss David? I'm so angry about that.

So the movie starts in a truck with a very handsome little boy who feels very frustrated by his lack of ability. He's so cute, that little boy. He's so cute. He's the most successful of the three little ones, in my opinion. Oh, I think the Albert Brooks one. He's so Albert Brooks-y.

He is pretty good. I think Little Hunter is hitting the bullseye. She's got, she's just, that's a lot of dialogue she has to say. She's very cute. It's just the hardest. It's the way that Little Brooks goes, you'll never make more than $19,000 a year.

That's pretty good. The conviction that he says it with. It's good. It's true. And he also has that palpable sadness in his eyes. I know. That Brooksian sadness. So that's the opening.

Right. Yeah. I had remembered feeling likeian sadness. So that's the opening. Right. Yeah. I had remembered feeling like these were kind of unnecessary and a little cheesy. They're a little jokey. But I love the movie

so much that I'm happy to see them and I do feel like it does this genuine establishing them as endearing from the very beginning. So William Hurt

shows up as a stuffed shirt and you're like, but he just wants to do right. Yes. I think it's the most crucial for him. And you know he's being genuine when he meets her that he's not just like trying to sleep with her

or you know take advantage of her or whatever right these are also like each of these characters are they're like a gordian knot of a person and establishes like the central internal conflict to each of them which is like william hurd is a guy who's so aware of his limitations and can't stop succeeding you know and feels the guilt about that. Albert Brooks is someone who knows he's superior but is constantly punished for it but also hates himself so doesn't think he really

deserves better. And then Holly Hunter is someone whose intelligence is a burden. She cannot figure out how to relate to human beings in a normal way because she's so on top of things. Mm-hmm. And so ambitious.

Yeah, I just love that speech about, like, choosing your words carefully. And then she kisses him at the end, which is so nice. It's so sweet. She, you know, throws this back at her dad and, like, has so much affection for him. Well, and, like, in a movie full of, like, diamond-cut, like, perfect, like, fucking daggers of dialogue, the one that I always think about the most, aside from the opening one that we butchered. I did great.

You did a great job. You did a great job. Is the, it must be great. Constantly knowing that you're the smartest person in the room. Yeah. No, it's awful.

You know, which is just like the entire, like that's what this whole movie is about. Yeah. Because the amazing thing about her character, and this happens throughout, and we'll keep talking about it, is that she has this like hard's about yeah because the amazing thing about her character and this happens throughout and we'll keep talking about it

is that she has this like hard shell about her but there's no pretending it's not like she's trying to act like she's got her shit together like she's open about all of this

so she says to like the head of the network like kind of admitting this turmoil inside of her and like it just keeps popping up and like you think is what makes people

like Joan Cusack or the guy who plays Bobby like want to work with her is that she is competent but like not trying to pull one over on everybody. She's incredibly honest and transparent. And then even though no one else knows how much she cries in private.

Which is very early. Don't you see her unplug the phone? The credits are still rolling. I think James Wilberks' name is over her sobbing. But just the fact that she can take the cord out of the phone and be disconnected from the world that's all it takes and there's also this thing where like

the film's moving pretty fast at the beginning setting everyone up getting these little kind of bursts of scenes especially just with like the childhood incidents and then when it goes to her with the phone and she unplugs then suddenly the movie just like stops and the credits are still going

but there's no music and she's just sitting there still and you're like why are they holding for this long and then suddenly she just starts crying but there's like 15 or 20 seconds

before she even starts grimacing where you're just watching Holly Hunter still on a bed yeah it's you know impressive to the point of being off-putting where you're like

I can't believe they lead with this like you know it's a confident movie. It's confident because this could easily make people too uncomfortable too quickly. Because she's already had these two cute conversations with Albert Brooks. You get that they have this good relationship.

And we're supposed to be watching this. You're like, oh yes, I'm watching a romantic comedy about a career woman who can't figure it out and it's going to be great. The man she loves is right there. He's right around the corner, right on the other end of the phone and it's going to be great. The man she loves is right there. He's right around the corner right on the other end of the phone and it's going to be staring

or whatever right? And then she just like is suddenly crying like a maniac and you're kind of like So do you think the crying is triggered by him? Because this is what I thought

about when I wrote like her three major crying scenes are all kind of after big moments with him because I think the one in the office is the day after the correspondence dinner.

That's true. I never thought of it that way. It seemed like more of like an existential dread thing. I never thought of it that way. It seemed like more of like an existential dread thing. I always thought of it as that thing. I feel like we've talked about Griffin where it's like she just she's too busy. So like this is the time in the day that she can cry.

Like you know down to the methodical sort of like take the phone off the hook and it's just sort of like this is where I have a moment for an outpouring of emotion sleepy buddy? yeah I want to take a nap you interested perhaps

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Okay, I'll read into that. I love a good reading assignment. This applies to select mattresses, and you can get $50 off any readers. Okay. Well, excuse me. I'm just going to take a quick nap. I'm going to take a quick nap.

Ben cut this out, and then when we're done with the episode, I'm going to order myself a mattress. Guys, I found it. Here's the billing from Damages Season 2. Thank God. Glenn Close. Okay.

Roseburn. Correct. Tate Donovan. Okay. With Marsha Gay Harden. Oh, she was on it too. And Timothy Oliphant and William Hurt and Ted Danson. That's wild.

That's insane. It's one with and three ands, not two withs and four ands. And everyone else we've talked about was just a guest star? Short, Tomlin, Goodman. They pop up in other seasons. It was a very season by season

because there was always a new case every season. So it was like, there would always be flashy guest stars. Danson's on it for two years at least. Crazy. Because that was kind of the start of gray hair drama dancing Oh yeah

You know like Silver Fox dancing Yeah And he's also doing Bored to Death Right And then he did CSI And people are like Why are you doing CSI?

You're so rich Yeah You've worked your whole Like why And he was just like I always kind of wanted to be on CSI So here I am My dad always throws out Ted Danson

As like the go-to for someone who's really rich. He goes, can you imagine how much money Ted Danson must have? He's really rich. And he's just been on TV forever. Yeah. He should be in broadcast news. He should. He's in very few movies.

I feel like Kelsey Grammer's right there, though. If you're going to go someone who was on Cheers who's insanely rich. That's the weird thing. Kelsey Grammer. Kelsey Grammer's really rich. That is true. The two guys my dad always goes for, can you just even imagine how much money they have, are Ted Danson and Zach Braff.

Well, Zach Braff it's just sort of like, it's infuriating. Because it's like, that guy? That much? From just one show? Yeah, right, right. The Danson thing is just like the amount of huge shows he was on, you know? Yeah, for sure. But Grammar, yeah,

had like two crazy syndicated shows. Ted Dance is not in this movie. He's not in this movie. Feels like he should be. He could have been Bill Hurt a couple years later, maybe he would have gotten this. Maybe. I mean, he's a little

rough around the edges. The whole point of Hurt is when he approaches her early on, which we're talking we're right yeah yeah yeah and she gives that speech that no one's paying attention to and then she shows the dominoes clip and everyone loves it which i just love how god she how badly she's read the room where she's like this is gonna they'll be like oh my god and instead they're like yay and that that like adage about like tragedy plays in close ups comedy plays out in wide shots. This is such a good wide shot comedy where they just hold on her between these two giant screens sandwich.

You hear the audience reacting positively to Domino's, and it's just seeing her face get more and more disgruntled in the middle. And as people who work in media, David, you listen to her being like, we've lowered our standards. This is falling apart. You're just like. This movie is chilling if you work in media because they're like jeez you know the news is getting really bad and then every news segment in this show is this like very serious foreign uh affairs piece where it's like date rape well then we'll get to that and they take the time to like you know like cut in the rockwell right it's dry rockwell thing that that's what the whole opening sequence at the newsroom is,

is that they have to cut in that Rockwell transition. Imagine. But like, talk about a movie. Imagine editing on fucking VHS, dude. Well, listen, my intern at ABC Productions, we used beta tapes. Like, that was the very end of that era. Yeah, go on. Sorry.

All three of us have time and time again discussed a fondness for movies depicting people who are really good at their jobs. And especially when the job is executed with this much detail. Oh, yeah. And just every element of this movie, like whatever the emotional conflict, the interpersonal social conflict going on is, you're never not aware of what jobs they have and what they have to be doing in the office at that very moment. And from like the technology to just like the way they hold themselves the way they talk about certain subjects

the fact that they like just live and breathe this shit. That section towards the end where it's Prosky talking to the people in the hallway about like okay here's a scenario. What would you do? It's like all they want to think about is just like how would you manage this situation? What are your ethics? like all they want to think about is just like how would you manage this situation yeah what are your ethics like all they care about is the fucking news

you just like i don't know i watch this movie and i want to cry because i want to believe that we have like journalists who care this much and that aren't totally beaten down by the system who believe that it's possible to get this stuff out there. Yeah. And obviously there are, but it also feels a little dire right now. And it's also a climate where each individual news outlet holds less power than it used to because they're just so fucking mad. Well, and that's the whole thing is like they're killing themselves to get together this segment about this returning veteran and get the Rockwell thing in there because it's going to be important and it's going to vanish and no one's ever going to watch it again. Right, no. But it was such a massive thing at that point. If they don't get it on at 8pm on Tuesday

no one will ever see it everyone's watching the news yeah and I think about how many things I've written in a week where it's just like well that's up and then it's gone and like was there a typo

in it? right right please keep employing me anybody who's employing me right it's like watching this movie where it's like the pressure to get

everything so right under such a time constraint yeah and not just in terms of reporting the story ethically, but like technically the artistry of how you compose the story,

how you perform it. I mean, jumping ahead, but the fucking scene where Hurt teaches Brooks how to be on camera and you're like,

yeah, this guy is a total artist at one thing and you can't discredit that. Beyond that, it's like, I don't know how you feel about this, Katie. You might feel differently. But Hurt's job, Tom's job,

is the job I would be the worst at in this environment. Oh, of the three? Oh, yeah, for sure. No, just, yeah, like any of them. Like, I could do any of the other jobs better than his. Or at least his is the one that frightens me the most. Sure, yeah. The anchor job, it's like,

I would be so worried about saying everything in the right order. And then when Hurt's talking about like, really punch one word in every sentence. And you're really selling an idea. And I'm like, I wouldn't even be able to start thinking about punching a word. No, the incredible thing about the scene where she's talking in his ear, which I guess we'll talk about later, is the way that he doesn't just repeat back what she's saying.

He like translates it and does it in real time it's so good i also i have it's amazing but i have this whole like theory because i spent a lot of time thinking about this like why so many incredibly good looking people are good actors are good performers in this kind of way and i don't think it's just audiences like watching people who are good looking which they do but i also think if you're that good looking and put together yeah from like a baseline level there's a certain confidence you have to not worry about certain things that frees up the mental energy to worry about things like your posture yeah punching one word in particular because you just kind of go into situations going like people like me they're won over by me they're compelled when i speak yeah

now i can focus on like the little details right and i like that they don't just make hurt a savant like they don't just go like well he's good looking and he just innately has a quality like in that scene he makes it clear how much he's thought about the artistry of some of these decisions that puts him over the edge from being like a good looking fairly charismatic person to someone who's like an utterly captivating broadcaster beyond that he's not um full of himself no like you know which he does he was smarmy then that would be its own thing yeah he is really genuine he's genuine and that's what he is in that when he's a little boy and he's like work i want to work you know he puts a lot of work and energy and effort into it the thing

that he represents though is putting that energy into the less essential places. And that's the central conflict of the movie. It's like, this guy knows he doesn't deserve what he's gotten. He is working really hard for it. He's constantly trying to get better. But his mind operates on a totally different track in terms of what he values as important. He doesn't even understand the regression

he represents. How dangerous letting someone like him rise to the forefront could be for all of media. Katie? All I can think about is how all the William Hurts of our president... Yeah.

I just think he's perfect because he's not intimidatingly handsome. He's a nice guy handsome. He's got that weird little horseshoe scar on his cheek. He's not too smarmy like i said like it's it's it's the perfect lane for that anchor it's a tricky performance peter jennings uh dan rather you know tom brokaw which is like the anchorman of that year can we talk about their like date that they have like the very beginning right

after she gives her speech he comes up to her and he's like you reached one person you know me you know yeah he's like sitting in the audience with a bottle blonde and can't get his eyes off of holly right every other woman in his life is a bottle blonde yeah but talk talk kitty yeah but like they you know you don't see most of the date and then get to the end of it and she's talking so fast and she's got this energy and the way that it's blocked that you cut to her room and they're like kneeling on the bed which is like not anything anyone in a movie has ever done. But you can kind of imagine having done that in your life. Yeah, she like pulls a pillow under her chin at one point.

Yeah, and it's like kind of sexy, but like not really. And then you see when she like badly misreads what's going on. But she kind of doesn't. Like it's kind of, every time I watch it, I like think of something different going on in his head. And it's also like, here's this guy who represents some sort of physical ideal to her like clearly she's just taken with how he looks from the beginning of the movie this is like her type

you don't invite an idiot or a bad looking idiot into your hotel room right and she's found a guy who looks like this who's in the same field as her and who's interested in her

right but it takes her a while to realize like what side of the coin he represents but in the beginning it's just like oh my god

it's another guy who likes Iron Maiden. You know, like I can talk about my favorite thing with him. And that hotel room stuff, when she's like nestled up with a pillow, it's just like, I get to geek out with someone about this, who I'm sexually attracted to, who doesn't look like Albert Brooks.

But then she, you know, realizes, right. He's the enemy. In a way, he represents something she doesn't like about her industry. That she's been trying to actively fight against. Where he's basically describing his career track to her. Where he's like, you know, I was on

sports and someone said I was going to get fired. He didn't even get fired. Someone just falsely said he was getting fired. And he got so many letters from housewives. There was such an outpouring of support that they promoted me. And then he can't even, doesn't even have a heart to tell her to say, by the way, I've been promoted again and I'm going to work for you.

Isn't it after that that she asked him for a back rub and then he rebuffs her? Presumably because he's been hired and he doesn't want to start that. It's like the Grey's Anatomy scenario. He's avoiding the big dreamy thing. But there's also an incredible shift that Holly Hunter pulls off where she goes from being like, oh, come on, don't be humble,

don't be modest. And the more he explains it, she starts to actually become irate. And then he's so hurt. Yes. William hurt. Yes.

William devastated. The way he, I really love the way he like, he's like, I couldn't stand the way you just talked to me just now. Like, you know, and it's not because she was too mean,

although she was too mean. It's because no one's ever talked to him like that before. Yeah. He also has that line like that, that it's heartbreaking to know that you're not very good at the thing you're a success at. Yeah. Right.

Oh, yeah. But she doesn't get that he is good, but in a way she doesn't like, I guess. Right. I mean, just later on, what's the line his dad has that just I just burst out laughing every time she's not a very

affectionate person the way she's talking to you is like I want to know the exact line yeah do you know what I'm talking about yeah I know it's something like she's not a very affectionate person then he comes to her he's like he loved you yeah so he admired her fire it's like the way he taught the way she talks is not the way an affectionate person talks.

It's something like that, but it's very good. It's really good. Yeah. So, yeah, then he calls her later. Like an hour later. Well, first he talks to Albert Brooks on the phone. They have their nightly phone call where they're catching up. And aren't you so smitten by Albert Brooks at that point?

Like all you want to do is just have someone to call you on the phone like that. You put it to me very well last night where we were texting about this movie and you were like uh everyone wants to be loved non-threateningly yeah oh yeah where he's just got like this boundless affection for her and like for the most part he's not making it weird we can talk about when he makes it weird but also i think a masterstroke of this movie is that they make it weird it'd be very easy to just make him ducky no and let him off the hook by being like cute and sad sacky that is what makes the movie complicated to watch because

there are things especially in this time when we're recording this where like it's non-stop talking about sexual harassment at work

like there are lines crossed all over the place I assume by the time this episode's coming up that's all over with everything's been

sorted out we've solved everything and it's fine yeah yeah Shrek's in jail everything's been solved

my running joke is now predicting that Shrek's the next one to go down ogres are like but you see this like this depth of affection between the two of them

and you want that relationship there and you want someone to just like you know like you were talking about how he yells at her but like he just pours

this like carrying on her and she knows that she can lean on him at every possible moment which is a shitty position for him to be in and codependent but valuable

his anger is what this movie gets really right. That it isn't afraid to make him an asshole and have him do incredibly awful things. But I feel like

when I saw this movie when I was young when I was 10 or 12 or whatever I think what made me uncomfortable was that. Right. He's not what you're

he's not Ben Stiller in Reality Bites where you're like oh this is me I understand. It's clear cut who the assholes are. That's the nice guy

and William Hur hurts the villains, but William hurts the villain. But James Brooks movies don't have villains ever. Right. Uh, sometimes it's a problem such as in, how do you know where there's no stakes or really anything to push against. Even the man who's committed fucking financial white collar crime is like,

what can I say? And you're like, he's all right. You know, like, I mean, there's just no one to be mad at they offered me 12 million dollars um no i think we we're gonna get to the fact that he made

in 2010 a movie about white collar criminals um who are nice even like at middle school i had a whole complex about being like the ducky boy who was like in love with the best friend who you know the unrequited love the the late night phone calls, but never be the one they want to kiss. And so I got a lot of like real masturbatory, like validation from movies where at the end, the girl realizes that's who she should have been with. And this movie is like, no, these people are angry.

And there's a weird sense of entitlement that comes to like being best friends with a girl, but also thinking she's stupid for not realizing she should be with you. And kind of constantly telling her that. Right. The level of denial that she must have to continue this friendship and rely on him and just kind of push anything that he suggests

otherwise into the back of her mind. And you see the expression she makes later on. She just kind of shakes it out of her brain. Yeah, because she just understands this is something she has to tolerate about being friends with him and has to weigh against all the things he does do for her as a friend. But it's frustrating to her that he has to, that has to be part of it. Yeah.

And like, she loves him. That he's putting that on her. But she's just not going to go, she's not going to do that. And she thinks that they can keep that equilibrium even though it's killing them. Right. But he views her not liking him as a choice. Like, why would you make this bad choice? Your judgment is better than this.

Yep. You know I stand for what you respect. But it's like a head versus heart movie. him as a choice like why would you make this bad choice your judgment is better than this yep you know i stand for what you respect but it's like a head versus heart movie yeah where it's like yes intellectually this is the kind of person she wants to be with except no part of her actually wants to be with him in the weird inexplicable way that like relationships form and attachments grow um my mother is a journalist i'm over asred as was my father they're both journalists uh she i just like i do think when i'm watching this movie that i'm watching my mother's career because like this is how she describes it you know mostly boys yeah uh a lot of albert brooks types a lot of lines that are very hazy sure a lot of like of like, you know, they're just so, they were also hard charging.

It's a lot of like, just like, let's drink all night now, you know, like. And especially. It's like your whole life is the news.

When you have this righteous motivation of like, we're doing something important, we're saving the world, everything, the stakes are so high. Yeah, yeah.

Where did your mom work? Daily News for, let me, 28 years, 1980 to 2008. Wow to 2008 hello no wait longer than that anyway 1982 the 2010 teens um and uh she did everything she was business reporter she was city hall reporter she was a social welfare reporter like did lots of different things um but uh you know especially in the 80s in new york mostly boys a lot of drinking yeah a lot of

brooksie types and a lot of like you gotta play with the boys you know like you know what i mean and like that is hunter's character in the way where it doesn't seem like she's trying harder or anything like she's uh she's a total idiot totally at ease but the relationship we have she has with brooks is so unusual would be so unusual in so many other workforces. But you also, I mean, we only get this one Snapchat from the beginning, but it seems like she's in a single-parent household being raised only by a father. You never see her mother, that's true. That's just always the inference I've gotten by the fact that they don't show the mom.

She's furiously sleeping. Right, when they cut to the living room, it's the dad sitting there by himself, which probably sets her up to a dynamic where she feels comfortable around. Which interestingly is also my mother's upbringing. Interesting. Anyway. We combine my mom with your mom and we have Holly Hunter in broadcast news. Except neither of our parents are from the South.

My mom is. We combine our three mothers. Is your mother from Georgia? She was born in Georgia, actually. I grew up in South Carolina, like me. And then she went back to Georgia to get birth to you, and then right back to Carolina? So I grew up right on the border.

So you would go over to Augusta for the hospitals, and then come back and live in South Carolina. It's like how Charlie was born in Manhattan, and we lived in Brooklyn. Of course he was. I believe he was born where I was born. You got to cross a river to be born. Yeah.

In the Bible, probably. You got it. You got it. So after that, we get the Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, Bobby scene, right? Yes. It's so good. Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, Bobby. Christian Clemonson. I don't know how she does that on just a technical level.

She's amazing. Well, her voice, everything about her voice. Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, Bobby. Christian Clemonson is Bobby. Just shout out Christian Clemonson. Strong, young Philip Seymour Hoffman look, I assume Bobby. Christian Clemson is Bobby. Just shout out Christian Clemson. Strong, young, Philip Seymour Hoffman look, I assume.

For sure. 100%. They're trying to finish up this story, get it ready, and she suddenly has this moment where she thinks of the perfect Norman Rockwell painting to put in.

That's in a book in her office. You can't Google that shit. You can't pull up that PDF. They have 15 minutes until the segment's going to air. Yeah. She calls, get that book, film it.

Albert Brooks with a stopwatch, adding in the one line of narration. Joan Cusack in a moment that should break this movie. I mean, this moment gets so much more slapsticky than the rest of the film. And it's right on that edge of like. She leaps over a dazzled child. Right. And the sliding under the like filing cabinet. Because I remember that was the clip they played on the AFI special.

And then when I put in the tape and the movie started out so sad, I was like, did I accidentally rent the wrong... Was that working, girl? Is this terms of endearment? That's definitely the most comedic that movie gets. Yes. Pretty much. Yeah, this is a funny movie that is not a very heightened comedy. No, no.

But it is a funny movie. Oh, yeah. But it's more behavioral. Very much so. I mean, it's just the kind of movie they don't make anymore right they don't make them like this

man they certainly don't make them 135 minutes long oh yeah they do who does that Albert Burns Judd Apatow oh yes

you know and like that's where people are always like I can't believe Judd Apatow is so indulgent where his movies are so long and I'm like do you know who his hero is or not

like come on 100% and even the TV to film progression yeah totally same anyway

I just watched The Big Sick also with Holly Hunter it's not 135 minutes long it's long it's two that one's two hours two on the nugget yeah

but I like how long that movie is that's a very Brooksie movie as well in terms of all the different stuff it covers and how complicated every character is

and like that's where Apatow is saying the Brooksy thing, which is like, don't shortcut anything. Every part of this needs to be long. It's fine. It can be a little longer. Their relationship needs to go on for a while. And the 90-minute version of that movie would lose entire

shades. I think so. I don't know if Katie agrees of this movie we thought about it oh of Big Sick yeah I think Big Sick

would be shorter I think every single scene in Broadcast News is perfect perfect yeah but they're long they're long scenes

they're long scenes it's also a big two shot movie like it's a lot of two shots where you're just letting actors play it out there's a moment oh it's here

in when they're watching when William Hurt is sort of shadowing in the office, the control booth watching her. And it's this sort of shot with her at the control panel, the guy, the sort of poindextery guy at the controls and the Hurt, the big Hurt between the two of them while she's making the calls. And Hurt is sort of just like bumping the back of his head against the wall, like a little boy in a classroom who's just like kind of bored.

Yeah. And he just like lets these scenes play out with like a bunch of really good actors doing a lot of really telling physical behavioral stuff, even when they're not talking. Yeah. Or when they're talking about their work, doing physical things that show what they're thinking. Nothing in this movie is rushed. Like he's really taking his time. I'm gonna rush us a little bit

because we've been talking for an incredibly long time already and I feel like we've done five minutes of this movie great so what's next to get the story on

kills it wait who what she gets the story she gets the story Rockwell kills it they're obsessed with Nicholson's reaction

yeah Nicholson reacts he gets a little smile yeah and then he says he can't talk to Albert or like she lies to cover for Albert Brooks and says that he can't talk to him and then you see Nicholson's reaction he gets a little smile yeah and then he says he can't talk to Albert or like she lies to cover for Albert Brooks and says that

he can't talk to him and then you see Nicholson just kind of twiddling his thumbs on the live feed which is heartbreaking he only wants to talk to Holly Hunter isn't that the second one

isn't that after they do that might be the second one oh yeah you're right Central America they go there yeah so they go to Central America after this part

yeah that's right the next thing is Central America it is crazy to me that they just go in bed with the Sandinistas in Central America after this part yeah that's right the next thing is Central America it is crazy to me that they just go in bed with the Sandinistas in Central America but they send Albert Brooks

to Central America and you see and there's like gunfire and explosions and you see how fussy she is oh about the shoes about the shoes

where it looks like they're kind of setting up a shot where like let's get a shot of them tying their shoes and she's like no no no no if you want to tie your shoes

that's fine sir you do whatever you want to do your decision but that moment when he goes did you get the shot of the boots you know because he knows they're already cutting it together while it's happening around them and they have these moments where they get their faces get really close to each other in any other movie it looked like they're about to kiss but it's just they're getting so sexually charged off of doing their job well yep right And then the same thing happens when she's back when she's feeding the lines

into Hertz ears with the same sort of like sexual foreplay kind of thing. But that's when they put that story on the air Nicholson flips out calls her says well really

you gotta give Aaron the credit and he goes well I can't whatever he says hangs up they watch him twiddle his thumbs and then one of my favorite heartbreaking

moments in the movie where he leans in and says the second I leave yeah like I'm not I'm not shattered into a million pieces I've only just said

something incredibly clever yeah and then she does such a good performance laughing too hard to Joan Cusack and says I'll never tell you what he said

yeah I'll never tell see don't you want that friendship you want someone who's going to cover for you like that and maybe just not be I've had that friendship a number of. See don't you want that friendship? You want someone who's going to cover for you like that and maybe just not be

I've had that friendship a number of times. I don't have to play any fantasy with this movie. This movie plays to me like my high school years. Yeah. No see I definitely

thought about it's about like doing like high school theater and like having this like intense production relationship where you're all trying to accomplish

something and like no one's really talking about their feelings in the proper way and everyone's kind of filtering it in weird ways. That's what my high school was. My plays and short films and collaborative fucking presentations

for science class. Okay, humble brag. Yeah, I mean, you know what? You could have had someone cover for you with a big laugh when you're a moment where you're emotionally devastated. Yeah, it's 2017, David.

No, it's 2018 by this point. Actually, the theater was with the girls' school. So, you know, that was one theater was with the girls school so you know that was one way to meet the girls yeah making out behind the scenes

I did have this feeling it was happening if this movie takes place 50 years later I think Albert Brooks' character would have become an alright Gamergate kid

before he got into journalistic ethics well if he had that outlet I hate the world and let's not talk about it I want to point out there was also some boy on boy making out in my boys about it. I want to point out there was also some

boy on boy making out in my boy school theater. Yeah, we're not trying to congratulate you. I feel rude for I don't want to erase the totally true boy on boy making out. They turned the theater in my school into an obstacle course.

Is that for the out of the furnace boys so they could learn how to like be under siege by the government yeah we didn't even have it's just like climbing on ropes it was an obstacle course with cardboard cutouts of cops in there that you had to dodge around they're training you for the hunger games yeah that's i mean it is the hunger Games over there already. I think it's already happening. Do you attend Battle Royale? Usually I have the plot

in front of me so we can easily run through it, but the plot summary for All Guys News is really small because it's not plotty per se. It's just a lot of things happening. Well, okay, so you get the Central America thing, then they all having that brunch at the network president's house

that's right where the is it Lois Childs I think Jennifer yeah is she the is she the other anchor

no she's a correspondent she's the one who's like standing outside the White House right and she's the one who's like asking Holly Hunter like do you have something

with Tom and her's already done an on-air piece at this point because he's starting to look like the golden boy right but I'm interested in Tom and she's like,

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And she's like, we don't know. Go on. And then she's like, wait, I do mind. So shitty. Come on, man. You gotta make up your mind. No, but then she stops her going out and is like, actually, I don't mind. Do whatever you want. Because Hurt says that shitty thing to her,

right? He says something shitty to her. What does he say her, right? Yes. He says something shitty to her. What does he say to her? I forget. He says something crappy to her that then she goes, excuse me, I'll be back in one second. Goes back to Jennifer, tells her. I think it's him still having a problem with her attitude and the way she talks to him.

Oh, he talks about how, I remember what it is. He talks about how much better she looks at the party. And he goes, usually at the office, you have that film over you. Oh, God, yeah. And so that's where she stops jennifer leaving the party he's like do whatever you want jennifer's like well i'm not gonna do anything right now right which i think is funny and then right then like they find out the libyan plane has yeah that's the qaddafi story starts up yeah so then then but then it's everyone doing their jobs you see everyone's bringing in action it's

like a saturday afternoon they're all in like nice party clothes and they're like now we gotta go to work and it's like nicholson's on vacation right so they's bringing in action. It's like a Saturday afternoon they're all in like nice party clothes and they're like now we gotta go to work. And it's like Nicholson's on vacation right? So they have to cover it. Yeah. And it's like that's the great sex scene.

That's where she's feeding him the lines about Tripoli. So they ask her to do it and they don't want Brooks to be part of it at all. And Brooks so Brooks is phoning in

from his apartment. But first she takes the boss out this guy who's got this great character actor face. Yeah. Yes. And says you're making a big mistake here

you have to put aaron on it and that's when he says the like it must be great yeah uh no it's miserable aaron sort of like takes the bullet goes home starts listening to french music listening to french music making himself a very strange looking drink orange concentrate and like making a screwdriver and he like scoops it out with his finger out of the can revolted it is really funny so revolted I realize I watched the whole credits they play him singing

over that song over the end of the credits which is amazing but they set up the whole thing like before he gets to the whole like her and his ear thing

like they are building and building this entire thing so you like you get his excitement over it because you're watching the process yes and this is the sequence where you get those

great sort of like composite split diaphaner shots. So many split diaphaner shots. Where it's like through the window. Yes. Fully in focus. Super crisp.

But also like the side of Hunter's face watching it. Ben's like, move the Ben in. So good. And then just like the voice in a voice in a voice of like Brooks calling her, hurling to her. I say it here. It comes out out there. It's incredible.

They're a good team. Yeah. They are a good team. Yeah. They are a good team. And it is like a weirdly erotic scene just because of how good everyone is and what they're doing. Yeah, and she's like whispering in his ear. Like it's an intense relationship. Right. And then afterwards he has that moment where he pulls her closer.

Which is yet another HR violation. A hundred percent. Yeah, there's a few HR violations. One hundred percent. But at this point they're a team and Hertz kind of nailed it. His first major at-bat, it's a home run. He just terms of endearment, this shit. So then from there, it's the Correspondence Center?

No, no, no. They all go out after. She goes over to Aaron's house. She goes to Aaron's house. And also, this is a movie where you really feel the lack of cell phones. Because she wants to hang out with him. She's got to go to his fucking house. And he lives like far away clearly because she always arrives two hours later than she's supposed to.

This is one of two movies he made set in D.C. too. This is a real D.C. movie with all this like nice Georgetown. Aaron's house is way too nice. But I guess in the late 80s D.C. wasn't that nice. D.C. is like a pit. I mean not, you know. But not only is it like. But D.C. is this.

Yeah. Not only is it like, oh, if I want to catch up with him, I have to go to his house. It feels like they have sort of like a standing, like obligation where it's like, well, every night I'll come over to your place. And we won't have sex with each other. Now it's your turn. You do you.

We'll just confess all our darkest thoughts to each other and not have sex. And that's the scene where he kisses her, which is not just HR violation. It's just like, it's a shitty thing to do and then he has the line while I felt something

which is funny that's the problem with this guy and she laughs and it's like it's so complicated the way that that relationship works

which I think is great it's great wouldn't it be great if needy was sexy your Brooks is good I'm doing old Brooks you're doing old Brooks you're touching your teeth

right and you just sort of nemo yeah then you can do these things and you can't nemo i've been trying i but then i pitch it up and it becomes grover how much do you think go on please uh wouldn't it be great yes i go too high and it becomes a muppet no you're pretty good it's just he does have such an iconic voice yeah nemo one of the great voices how much do you think he makes from those fucking movies oh a lot god just like and you know the story that they recorded the whole thing with william h macy and they were like this guy's unbearable like his

neuroses is like he's pretty annoying as albert brooks i mean and andrew stanton watched broadcast news and he was like this is the level of somehow you're still on this guy's side. Right. He knows how to do it. So funny. I didn't know that. They recorded like pretty late. Yeah.

They did like test screenings. Marlon's a pain. Oh yeah. Marlon's tough. But you also get where he's coming from, which is like the same thing in this way where the guy drives you mad and you don't totally love him, but you understand what's motivating him at every moment.

Right. But at the same time, what I like is that the movie is not on his side this is not a movie about finding emo isn't on marlin's side either sure i wasn't i wasn't making that you know but you know this is not the movie about the guy who got screwed over by the privilege of the the goyish uh you know uh preppy yeah oh yeah you know no one's mean, it's her movie. Here's like the accidental secret to why I think this movie is a total masterpiece.

Like it's weird that Hurt is lead and Brooks is supporting it at the Oscars. They're the same. They're the same. They should be one or the other. I think it was just that Hurt was more of a leading man.

Yeah, of course. He was a bigger star. Of course that's the decision they make. Brooks is the comedian, you know, he's supporting. Yeah. But they're both, you know,

it's Holly Hunter and then the two of them are sort of the... The thing I think makes this movie an accidental masterpiece, he'd been doing research for years, he'd been working on the script for years,

they finally got the movie ready but he still hadn't come up with an ending because he couldn't decide which one she ended up with. He didn't come up with the ending until like during the movie, right? He went into it saying,

we'll start filming and I'll look at the chemistry and I'll decide which one she ends up with. That's an insane thing to do. No one should do that. Right. Well, I think James L. Brooks is weird because he took him four years

to make to shoot Terms of Endearment. He's like, and I think that's why How Do You Know costs a billion dollars. That's right. It's just because of time. He gets to do what he wants and he's very slow. He's very slow. But this movie doesn't pick sides because he wasn't trying to set it up

for any ending and then he shot an ending that ended with hurt which I'll get to when we get to the end of the movie

that didn't work so then he added that like epilogue scene where it was just like yeah these are three people there's no combination of them that makes sense here's my take

we don't need the ending I used to hate the ending I don't hate the ending I think the ending's cute I just don't think we need it we'll talk about that later we'll talk about it later I don't hate the ending. I think the ending's cute. I just don't think we need it. I like it a lot now. We'll talk about that later. We'll talk about it later.

I don't hate it. I mean, we probably should start talking about it relatively soon. We're going to talk about it. Correspondence dinner. I mean, we're pretty much up to the correspondence dinner. Correspondence dinner. Which is an hour.

Yeah. Like, it's most of the movie. Yeah. Yeah, because then they don't go to the dinner, which is, I always forget. I know. Yeah. They go through the metal detector.

No, they don't, because she's got condoms in her purse. He gone through no yeah neither of them she's got the condoms in her purse uh she doesn't want that to be revealed yeah which it doesn't have to be but it's a little sitcom-y it is because it's like you don't have to dump your whole bag you just take out the metal it's also the guy beforehand because he's at her house and she's like it was a professional conclave with colleagues and she drops the condoms into her purse conclave is a great conclave to be fair right after the metal detector there's a latex detector so she's like, it was a professional conclave with colleagues. And then she drops the condoms into her purse. Conclave is a great word. But to be fair, right after the metal detector, there's a latex detector.

So she's probably going to get busted. I consider this a professional conclave. I feel extremely professional at this moment. But the simultaneous thing being set up here is that big budget cuts at the network, which are going to trickle down to their department. And everyone's sort of been warned. And Robert Prosky takes Albert Brooks out. And he's just like, look, I'm not saying you're going to trickle down to their department. And everyone's sort of been warned, and Robert Prosky takes Albert Brooks out, and he's just like, look, I'm not saying you're going to get fired,

but you're exactly the kind of guy who's too good to stay on. And she's also, but I mean, let's remember, she's also in that budget cuts meeting where she kind of zones out, and then they're like, who should we send to Anchorage? And she's like, Jennifer. We should send Jennifer. So she's, you know, send Jennifer so she's that shot just of her on the TV in the

fucking snow but no the other thing we have to mention before we talk about the party is the date rape oh yeah they filmed that before where Hertz like I want to do a piece I need to learn sooner or later how to make my own piece from beginning to end and we don't see him making it we just see this piece this like very moving

he tells her what he wants to do you know sexual assault from people you know it's the unreported story where it's like hey 1987 like rape i know what you're thinking you're in a barn and a violent exactly no your friend could rape you like this is still breaking news in 1987 um and it's this like moving human interest story like classic you know he's something that's an ally and albert brooks thinks it's this like moving human interest story. Like a classic, you know, something that the news. And Albert Brooks thinks it's ridiculous. Albert Brooks is a dick about it. He's a total dick about it. And the women in the office are mad at him.

His expose on Nookie, isn't that his line? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's his worst line, I think. Until he gets to the end, it starts getting really mean. Look, that line is more tasteless today than it was at the time. But even then, what works about the line is that he's so callous. And then the women all are like. Yeah, the women totally even then what works about the line is that he's so callous and then the women all and then yeah the women totally get it that's the thing and that moment where john cusack goes my cousin yeah and it's like they're all related to the story being like

finally someone's and they're like frozen in the office and then there's the cut to william hurt crying which and i burst out laughing at every time yeah because it is so like it's it's so i mean anderson cooper is a bad example because I have no beef with Anderson Cooper. But it is the kind of thing he would do. I know. Anderson, I don't care about how you feel about this. This isn't about you. And three people bristle at it.

Prosky. Yes. Who already is bristled at when they need to stall for time. And he goes, I think everything will be fine. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And he goes, no everything will be fine and he goes no one cares what you think like Koski sees

the beginning of the lowering of standards by this guy making it a cult of personality Brooks is already against him

but you see Hunter sort of like flitter for a second and go like ugh yeah well and then she talks to him

and she's like well you know what it's not what I would have done I found it very moving it worked for me I wouldn't have put that in there

but I guess that's... But maybe I'm too conservative about that. Right. Like, she's admitting, like, not fault exactly, but like, you know what? I'm not the boss of everything. Right. And fucking Nicholson clearly loves the piece, right? Yeah. Yeah, where he's like... Yeah. Yeah, anyway. The listener at home, David,

just made a face silently. This might be going back to that. I can't remember the part of it when the two guys with the keyboard show up with the theme song, which is Mark Shaman. I just put up a Wikipedia page so I can just list his. What's the line the guy has where he's like, guys, I'm spellbound. But it's not that. It's so funny.

And then they go, big finish. The one guy looks like Nick Kroll. Yeah, I think. Is that one Mark Shaman? I think that's Mark shaman he has a that scene is the only throwaway in the entire movie but i love every it's so funny yeah but then the correspondence dinner is where she's like you know what i'm gonna sleep with william hurt yeah i'm my own woman by the lincoln memorial exactly they have that crazy conversation at the

lincoln memorial too where she's like what is it about you you know like yeah and he's just like grabbing her arm right and then and then she's like walks off she's like what is it about you? You know like and he's just like grabbing her arm right and then and then she's like walks off she's like I'm gonna go see Aaron he's like you can't just leave me after saying all those things

like that. It's a bad decision. We're missing a couple big things because simultaneous with this Aaron's getting his shot to be a weekend anchor. He says to Prosky you gotta give me one shot

and Prosky goes perfect everyone else is going to the Correspondence Center you're the nerd who's not going to prom. Just do it. I love that he writes his own copy

and the guy is like, really beautiful work. Pleasure to read this. My nice little copy. Which is a disaster to hear, I feel like. I mean, Brooks doesn't get that,

but it's like, that's already, it's too flowery. Yeah, right. And then when he's talking on camera. And Hurts had to give him all this advice,

which he hates. And he hates even more when he realizes the advice is pretty sound. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the scene between them, it feels like the opposite of the Bechdel moment. It's like seeing the two of them in a scene together. You're like, oh, hey, guys.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's like, no, really sit on it. And he's like, oh. I look great. Oh, yeah, and Jane gives him her shoulder pads before he goes and then gives him a nice line. But Kosky says to him that thing where it's like when he says you can do Saturday, he's like, you better start working on it now.

And he's like, what, are the stories already ready? And he tries to find a way to say to him, you've got to be a little more charismatic. You've got to work on the razzle dazzle. A little more Hugh Jackman, please. So then he coaches her. She goes to check in on him right before and reveals, he reads all over her

that she's now in love with yeah yeah and flips out on her no that's after that happens before and after but he doesn't flip out he doesn't flip out till after when he flips out on her is in his house after when he's in a good mood right right right right right right when she's gonna go back to see his meltdown scene i watch it on youtube all the time i mean it's the set piece of the movie oh the literal meltdown yeah it's so fucking funny it is really funny the towel is what always gets me where she's like do you have a bigger one the part that gets me is when they hit the sign your hand your hand your hand your hand your hand it's like suddenly like a marx brother scene in the middle of this movie but

it's never too much like it's like the kind of thing where you almost might not notice it you know even though it's so bad like it's he's really subtle in how he sets all of that up visually and also crying thinking about it like when he opens his jacket but like cutting between he's got like the three major shots he's using which are like the the wide long shot where the sweat's less visible right right there's the close-up where the sweat's less visible there's the close up where you see everything and then there's the on the TV screen where it's standard death and it's not that big so when it gets to the point where you see the color

as a different color on the TV you're like oh fuck it's bad like if it's showing up there that visibly my dad really wanted to be a sportscaster and fought really hard to get his one shot and then always referred to it as like Albert Brooks broadcasting his moment where he realized

like I can't do this. But Brooks just sort of like flips the other way and is like it was so horrific it's almost incredible. Like how badly I went for it. And that's what

I love how he's just happy when he's at home where he's like you know what I mean like clearly I can't do this. It was a disaster. Nemo.

They thought he was having a heart attack. They had nice phone calls they were worried about him what's the good news I lost six pounds every line he has it's so funny

he's in such a good mood so I think that's partly why she's like you know what I think I might be in love with Tom and he just turns on a dime and screams at her this is her single best line reading the entire movie. She's trying to say it in a light, casual way. Yeah, that guy.

What's his name? By the end of I Think I Might Be in Love with Him, she's choking back tears. Over the course of one line, she goes from the cute, pretty woman moment. He has a bottle of Stoli and a bottle of Absolute. I've never figured out why. Anyway, sorry. Maybe they got paid. I knew it.

I knew this was going to happen. He's everything you've tried to stand against your entire life. That scene is hard to watch. It's really good. And he gives the devil speech, you know? Yeah. He's a nice guy, but I truly think he's the devil. And I always, always fucking think about that when I think about evil in the world.

That the most incipient kind of evil is just the lowering of standards more than the people who go out there and like fucking wave the flag for hatred I mean this is the thing that's driving us crazy now is all the things that we are used to now that we were not used to a year ago and God knows what will be happening by the time anybody hears this right but yeah it's like

they both are so furious at each other but also can't continue hating each other they represent too much to each other, and they know what's driving each of them to behave in this way. So they keep on, like, it's such an uncomfortable scene, but the balance between, like,

when he's yelling, when he's pathetic, when she's crying, when she's laughing at him, when she's laughing with him. And I think you're right that you see them in the same frame together for so much of it. Like, I think of, like, him standing in the foreground,

and she's sitting on those stairs in his house. And that's when he gives the devil speech. Then she walks away and he drops that he's in love with her. It's so well choreographed. Like you said about the blocking. You're right. All those scenes are very, very carefully thought through. Yeah, because they're just using the space that they have been in before.

And they know where to go in it. His house is so big. But he only has a love seat. It's so big. But he only has a love seat. Brooks goes from like sitcom TV where it's like very didactic, close up, close up you know kind of like perfunctory blocking to like really understanding how to like play comedic moments with pathos

visually on film and then he goes all the way back around to like movies where it's just like dumb close ups again. But this it's like there's so much you get from just watching how they listen to each other while they're talking, what they're doing with their bodies, where they're in relation to each other. It's like masterful fucking shit.

It's like Preston Sturges level shit, that scene especially. Yeah. Where does that scene end? I'm trying to remember. Well, he's basically like, he kind of calms down. He's like, go, go, fine, it's fine. You know, he relaxes. Then she goes and Tom's already kind of lost interest. Yeah. And like, whatever go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, Jay Nicholson plays that so perfectly. That's another thing that is in our industry today for sure. There's another one after Paul, the network boss, he fires one of the people and says,

if there's anything else I can do for you, and the guy says, well, I certainly hope you'll die soon. Right. But it starts with that like super graceful like, well, I'm just old enough to be complimented by early retirement. And then it goes to like i hope you die soon uh and that's this you know uh tom hasn't changed at all where he's like getting rid of me yeah they've they're moving me like he really thinks it's bad like to london he's like that's good you're on like the career track yeah he's like i guess so you know he just doesn't get it where he's like you idiot they. Yeah. He's like, I guess so. You know, he doesn't get it.

Where he's like, you idiot. They're, they're, they're like, they're grooming you. You're going to be the guy and you don't even realize it.

Yeah. Brooks quits. That line Brooks has, there's no system that it doesn't want one of us. That's also where there's your favorite line. Aside from socially,

you're my role model. Yeah. Joan Cusack she just slays every single like she's really funny she has like four lines I also love that like

Joan Cusack is probably a woman of average height but Holly Hunter is so elfin she looks like a giraffe and then she's also got like six inches of hair yeah she has like

Marge Simpson hair she's close she's 5'9 pretty tall for a lady I love Joan cause Working Girl is like right around now, maybe the next year or so. Her hair is like colossal.

It's a beautiful thing. But what does Aaron figure out as he's leaving? Oh, yeah. With Tom faking crying. You had one camera on that shoot. Yeah. Do you feel like, I'm trying to think if the first time I saw it,

I would have put it together. I don't think I ever would have. No. I don't think I understood the have. No, I, no. I don't think I understood the language of what they were like. Right. Yeah. I don't really get like, what do you mean you have to move the camera? Move the camera.

Who cares? Yeah. Like, you know, why would that be complicated? Right. Yeah. But then Aaron has this awful, awful lunch. Oh, and Robert Prosky gets fired and they offer Holly Hunter the job. Yeah.

And Robert Prosky has this great scene where he says to her, like, look, I was on the way out. They were going to fire me. I'll be angry if it isn't you. It'll take some of the sting out of it, knowing that someone has talented. No, but the Brooks lunch is where you turn on him. Yes. Well, first, you see her walking around the room

talking to everybody and seeing what a pro she is. I love that little bit of her dealing with it. And then William Hurt asks her on the trip before that lunch. Oh, she has 14 weeks of vacation. And his idea seems so good. Just go somewhere warm and get the hell out of there. I'll do that tomorrow. Oh, she has 14 weeks of vacation. And his idea seems so good. Just go somewhere warm and get the hell out of there.

Like, I'll do that tomorrow. Let's go. But it's a real William Hurt thing. A real Tom thing where he's like, it's fine. There's a logic to like, you don't want to just come back

into the office tomorrow and have a new job. Like, you need a little bit of a reset here. And everyone's coming up to her and going like, look, I've always wanted to tell you this.

Like, all the people on the way out. She's got some shifts she's going to have to go through to get this new position totally like like, wrapped around in her mind. So she goes to lunch with Brooks to tell him, I guess, that she's going on the vacation with Tom. And to meet there, he says, one of my other friends, let's go to the place near the thing where we went that time. Yeah.

I love that. I'll see you there. And then cut to them there. And they go into these really, like, loving romantic comedy, like, movie star close-ups. When he's going, like, I just think about into these really like loving romantic comedy, like movie star close ups when he's going like, I just think about being there with my son and my wife. And she's like smiling. She's like, Ooh, son. And you just think it's teeing up to like some sentimental, like, well, it's been great

being friends with you. And then he just throws in like the worst fucking petty jab about like, it's not nice to make fun of fat single ladies. Yeah. It sucks single ladies. Yeah. It sucks so much. Yeah. Sucks. And her fucking Holly Hunter just in a millisecond shifts her entire face.

Yep. To like, I can't believe you would do that to me. Yeah. Uh, he immediately realizes what he's done, tries to apologize. But I mean,

it's like, there's no going back from this point. And he has this sort of narrative. He sort of lays out to her. He's like, it's fine. We're going to be friends point and he has this sort of narrative he sort of lays out to her he's like it's fine we're gonna be friends and we're gonna see each other every 10 years

and we'll be a spark and we'll never act on it which it's like she's not viewing that as a spark that they're not acting on but that's what he thinks he thinks she's

strategically choosing to not sleep with him all these times rather than just someone who's not interested in him in that way also like I don't think Holly Hunter

could be fat. It just doesn't really seem possible. It's physically impossible. Her body just doesn't have the space to get enough food in it to get fat. It's one of the great things

about her playing Zoe Kazan's mom in The Big Sick is that she's like tiny, tiny people. It's just. My mom like all three pregnancies gained no additional weight.

God. I'm sure everyone, I'm sure all her friends adored her. She was just like a matchstick lady with like this tumor belly. But it's just, it's a perfect example of what that guy is, in my opinion.

And like, you know, we've all been that guy, maybe not exactly, but we, you know, like where it's like, you're not that smart and fun.

You know, your jokes aren't all going to be Albert Brooks level jokes. Sometimes you're going to say something where it's like, eh, par from you, Benny, of course, you're different. But also the like, stop acting like the world owes you everything, like it's all stacked against you, which gets to like him feeling like when he tells the bullies at the beginning

of the movie, like these wounds, I'm going to leave you with a wound that's really going to stick. Where he really thinks that is what matters. The world is going to course correct. They're like 19,000, not bad. Like you're high stats right now, but I ultimately have to succeed and get everything I want because I know I'm smarter.

I graduated when I was 15. But he does leave her with the other thing, his piece of evidence about Tom as well. And which, the way he presents it. Where he's like, I don't think it's shitty that I'm doing this. Well, he says like, I feel like I was right to tell you

and I don't feel like I turn on him. He says, no, I'm almost certain, I think. Yeah. And with that, you're like, yeah. I mean, yeah. You see his doubt that you know he's not just trying to be vindictive

and ruin her relationship but like he gets that it's important to her he gets that that matter is way more than almost anything else to her including him saying

that dumb thing insulting her exactly that's gone but that's why Brooke's not deciding which guy she was going to end up with

even into filming the movie works to its benefit because both of them are the wrong guy yeah like he has them do the wrong guy. He has them do the wrong things in the right way and the right things in the wrong way. So there's

no sort of favoritism or preference. For sure. And then she goes back and watches the tape and immediately. And I love how it's not that bad. He's just it's exactly what he would do. And she's harmed. Oh yeah I was moved. She's smiling for most of it. But he goes like well they just need a shot

of me nodding like a dope yeah right and they're like I wish she could have gotten oh I can do that you know like it's not he doesn't get how no it's not

it's not mean it's not like trying to lie the audio in the video you hear off camera of the interview subject going wow that's amazing yeah

and he feels like he did something right yeah oh he's such a good boy with his Baltimore Oils trucker cap he doesn't oh he's such a good boy with his Baltimore Orioles trucker cab he doesn't know he's such a good boy around his neck so off he goes and I think it's good yeah the bikini around his neck yeah all right for what I love the cab scene uh yeah oh yeah no the runner of the way that she can't stop giving instructions to cab drivers

which I you know we've all lived in New York we know that that is what you do uh where you're meeting like no don't get on the FDR you know like where she's like you know what I'm not gonna do it go any way you want beat

but you know so she's changed but she hasn't changed so do you know what he wanted his ending to be go on man and a woman

the French film at the end when they're reunited on the train I've not seen this movie I haven't either but there's an end, when they're reunited on the train. I've not seen this movie. I haven't either. But there's an end scene where they're reunited

on a train. Okay. And it wasn't in the script and he didn't tell the actors what was going to happen. So we had them both come to set. Okay.

And they didn't realize they were going to see each other. Uh-huh. And it's a reunion scene in which the emotion is real. Uh-huh. And it's playing out in real time

while he's filming just that one take. And Brooks was like obsessed with that idea. And so he was like, whichever guy I decide she's going to end up with, I'm going to design a scene just that one take. And Brooks was like obsessed with that idea. And so he was like, whichever guy I decide she's going to end up with, I'm going to design a scene like that. So we had her leave the airport.

She gets into the cab and then William Hurt follows her into the cab. And he wasn't in the call sheet that day. So she thought he wasn't going to be there. And someone on set ruined it for her. So by the time he jumped in the cab, she knew and they tried to improvise this thing, but it didn't have that energy.

And the scene's bad and you also don't want to see her end up with him at that point no but that ending is on the blu-ray the Criterion

I have the Criterion I'll watch it it's terrible it's a really odd acting exercise like scene wow and then he was like

fuck what's my ending now and so he came up with this epilogue so I don't think he really needs an ending the thing I like about the ending is William Hurt's wife because that just makes me

laugh so much. It's so perfect. The reveal of her is so good. Yeah, and then the part where he's like, it's okay if I just go and she's like, she understands that

this is what her life is. Right. And I love Aaron's kid. Clifford is great. Clifford is a great kid. He's adorable. And there's just something nice about it where it kind of

is what he said. It's like we'll see each other and we'll have a relationship because I think if you end with her in the cab it's like it's got the bitterness tone to it and there's something like

sentimental but not unrealistic about like just seeing each other and she's gonna be William Hurt's boss and I mean what I really like is that it's not like she's just married

to her career she's got a guy he likes boats who knows maybe she'll end up with him what I like about the ending is it represents this triangle of like

they this was a fulcrum point in their lives for all three of them in terms of where they stood in relation to this industry and themselves and relationships and all this sort of stuff. And whether or not they're constant communication, they are always going to have that power over each other in all three directions. Yeah.

I think it's a nice understated like... Yeah. I think it'd be fine. It just makes me think of people you've known in an intense part of your life and then see them five years later you're just like huh okay and you have that affection even if like at the time you like load them right or like yeah exactly i'm just so with her in the cab and i love the little shift of her like she's not going to give the instruction yes she is yeah uh but i get what you guys are saying the ending it's just

sort of like the energy is you you know, sort of leaving you a little bit at that point and you're like, okay, I mean, you know, and it's, it's,

it's a damper ending literally because it's raining. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's fine though. I don't like hate the ending. There's that line where

they're walking towards him. She goes like, all the men in my life. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Reunited once again. Yeah.

She's most interested in Clifford. Yeah. Who wouldn't be like a kid? She's like a telescope. What's he looking at? It's like a kaleidoscope. Yeah. Right. It's a at a kid? Like a telescope? What's he looking at? It's like a kaleidoscope. Like a Nickelodeon Kids Choice Awards. Okay, guys.

We're going to play the box office game. This movie's a reasonable hit. Pretty big hit, right? 51 Dearment was like humongous. That's true. It was like 130 or something. This is 51 million, which is adjusted. 115?

112. I'm good at adjustments. Of course he did. I definitely thought it was bigger than that. I guess Terms of Endearment would make less money. So this was kind of like a disappointment compared to Terms of Endearment. No, it made three times its budget. It was a big hit.

It didn't win Best Picture. It didn't win Best Picture because that's the last Emperor year. Oh, yeah. Maybe like an unbreakable to a six cents kind of thing no but i mean it was a hit and like it was unbreakable it made sure but i think next to a mega hit okay you're right i mean uh but that is that's the that's the last emperor year michael douglas wins best actor not that william hurt was going to win best actor. Cher wins best actress. Yeah. I would give it to Holly Hunter. But I mean,

I do like Cher in Moonstruck. Yeah, she's very good. Nikki Cage not even nominated. Sure. Sean Connery beats Albert Brooks. Yeah, Brooks should have won for this. Well, number one.

So it opens in limited release Christmas time, December 18th, 1987. Guys, number one. it opens in limited release Christmas time December 18th 1987 guys number one this is crazy it's a stand up comedy film Eddie Murphy Raw

yes number one at Christmas time yeah that movie is like super rated R yes yes it is

good call no one will ever be that big of a movie star again yeah it is crazy like Elvis level famous no one's ever going to be that iconic

that you're able to translate anything in any medium into success. Because he also hit albums and shit. Number two, in only its... Eddie Murphy Raw's

opening weekend, $9 million. First weekend. Shoot. Number two, in its fourth week, and the movie's already made $44 million,

is the biggest movie of 1987. Biggest movie of 87? It's a comedy. Three Men and a Baby? How much does it make total? A 165? 167.

That's crazy. Adjusted to almost 400 million dollars for Three Men and a Baby. Who would have thunk it? Three Men and a Baby? Leonard Nimoy does it again. Leonard Nimoy, he did it. The Captain America Civil War of its time.

Number three at the box office is a fairly sizable comedy hit made more than broadcast news starring two big comedy actors of the 80s. Ben Hosley is loving it. Pryor and Wilder? No. Not a team that I think gets together again. I think it's a remake of a Hitchcock movie.

It's a remake of a Hitchcock movie. I believe that I'm right about that. Man and a Woman, Two Men. Two Men. Two Men. It's a remake of a Hitchcock movie. Is it Throw Mama from the Train?

Throw Mama from the Train, a Danny DeVito film. DeVito picture. Starring DeVito and Crystal. I believe it is. No is no it's not his debut his debut is something called the ratings game no war the roses after this war the roses is so dark yes uh anyway i would love to do devito someday yeah i mean it's only like six movies right death the smoochie duplex and hoffa and matilda on matilda he's got some good movies in there uh the ratings game is a tv movie so Plex and Hoffa. That's a weird filmography. On Matilda. He's got some good movies in there.

The ratings game is a TV movie so forget that. Yeah. So Thromau from the Train, War of the Roses, Hoffa, Matilda, Death of Spoochie,

Duplex. So is Thromau from the Train a remake of Strangers on a Train? Yes. With Moran Ramsey. Number four is a kid's film about a robot. A kid kids film about a robot

a kids film about a robot is it Short Circuit you're on the right track Short Circuit 2 no it's a kids film about a robot

isn't this about a robot I don't know it's not Batteries Not Included right it is that's about many robots they're little metal aliens

written by Brad Bird. Among other people. My goodness. We'll never talk about that movie ever again on this podcast. So that opens to $3 million. So I guess that wasn't a hit. Not a huge hit.

No. Okay, it wasn't. Number five is another Oscar player. Won a big movie of the year. Won an Oscar. Affirmation? Or not? We just mentioned it.

Wall Street? Yeah. So good. How'd you do that? That was fast. Contact clues, baby. It's weird to hear it not with the ding. No, just like,

is it happening in real life and not in my headphones? I have to ding myself in my head otherwise I feel bad about it. You feel like you're not validated. I need that endorphin rush of the ding, baby. Planes, Trains, and Automobiles, which is a great movie we all love.

Yeah, a masterpiece. Overboard. Right, so he should have won fucking best actor this year. 1987, if Michael Douglas is who won, John Candy should have won best lead actor 1987. Well, Michael Douglas won. Because he also had Fatal Attraction this year. Hey, can I tell you something? Can I tell you something?

Leonard Part 6. Can I tell you something? Yeah. I like me. My friends like me. my wife likes me yeah maybe i talk too much what the fuck are you doing but but i'm the genuine article dell griffin what you see is what you get that's the fucking planes trains no it's good it's just it's it's just i like me it's a good movie. Have you seen Planes, Trains, and Automobiles? I have seen parts of it.

It is not... It's not a... I've seen Home Alone a billion times and seen John Candy riding in the back of the, what, Ryder truck? Yeah. Yeah. John Candy in Planes, Trains.

That's the jam. He's good. Yeah. I like him. We're ending on a weird note, but his wife likes him. His friends like him. All right, we're done.

Like, Del Griffin's the genuine article, okay? What you see is what you get. This is, but yeah. His friends like him. All right, we're done. Look, Del Griffin's the genuine article, okay? What you see is what you get. This is a perfect movie. It's like William Hurt. You know, what you see is what you get. Yeah, that is true.

What you get is a lot of pain. I'm glad we can agree this is a perfect movie. This is a perfect movie. I would be interested for someone to argue if it's hashtag problematic for all of the things

that we've been talking about. I think that is what makes it good. I agree. I think it's honest about what is hashtag problematic about its characters. It's a hard time to watch it right now at a time where everyone in a workplace is like, I will never touch another human being under any circumstances.

There's all those op-eds going around with like, can men even hug anymore? As if it's like Harvey Weinstein, just too much hugging. That's what did it. I mean, that literally is what John Lasseter did. Like, that is much of what he is accused of doing. Yeah, it is true. He's a real lots of hugging bear right now.

That lots of hugging bear is hard to think about right now. Yeah. Yeah. Also, someone pointed out that, like, all the Pixar characters are, like, big, kindly men you idolize. All the villains. Yeah. All the villains. I'm sorry.

Yeah, big, kindly men you idolize. And then it's like, no, there's a dark. Even in Coco. He's, like, not that big, but he's, like, you know, big. He's kind of big. Yeah, big kindly men you idolize, and then it's like, no, there's a dark. Even in Coco. He's not that big, but he's big. He's kind of big. Yeah, he's tall. And even like Olaf's Frozen Adventure. You think that Olaf's your friend,

and then he makes you watch that fucking 20 minutes short. How much of it did you watch? I watched all of it. Oh, because I arrived 37 minutes late, and I still caught the last two minutes. My mom arrived very late, and I had to run out and give her her ticket, because I arrived 37 minutes late and I still caught the last two minutes. My mom arrived very late and I had to run out and give her her ticket because I bought the tickets. I watched Coco on a screener and the short was not on there. And now it is not on the theatrical release either.

That's crazy. Well, now also Coco's not in theaters. This episode's coming out. You don't know. I don't know. Coco doing great. I hope Coco do great. You know, you know my tweet.

Coco more like Gomo. Good movie. I remember't know. Coco doing great. I hope Coco do great. You know my tweet. Coco more like Gomo. Good movie. I remember that tweet. Everyone remembers it. By the time this episode comes out that tweet will be put on a plaque somewhere.

That tweet is president. Wait Griffin did you predict a Best Picture winner for posterity? I just can't believe it. The Post did it. I don't know.

I was going to say the Post. Congratulations to the Post. You think so? Yeah. I'm starting to maybe sense it. I don't know. I was going to say the post. Congratulations to the post. You think so? Yeah. I'm starting to maybe sense it. I don't know. I'm all out. I feel like literally anything could win this.

Phantom Thread, baby. Yeah. It's happening. The Thread. Last Jedi. Oh, but speaking about things winning, of course, at this point that our episode's coming out, we're in the midst of blanky March Madness. So, of course, Ben, can you believe that?

Just be... It looks like might now take it all the way unless comes out of nowhere we're so far in advance we just have to say random shit on our podcast Ben has to figure it out later

and don't count out Ben's really excited about this we don't even know like how many I don't even know what Blinky March Madness is. I'm surprised it ended at this point. It's a gleam in our eyes. It'll make a lot of sense at some point. I think everything that's problematic about this movie is also what's great about this movie.

I think this movie is very honest, as David said, but it's also so well-researched, it's so well-observed, that the things that now bristle more than they did at the time only bristle because they're so dead on and the culture changed around it

yeah everything is problematic that makes it great except for the Mark Shaman scene on the keyboard which is perfect and not problematic at all that is true that should be the whole movie

nothing but joy yeah alright Katie you came all the way we blew you in of course yeah no of course yeah you fly people in for I mean

I flew first class and you want to tell people who your celebrity plus one was of course. You fly people in for first class. And you want to tell people who your celebrity plus one was? Of course, when we fly a guest in, they get a celebrity plus one to accompany them.

Oh, is my celebrity plus one supposed to be on the podcast? No, no, no. You just flew with them. Pointedly cannot be on the podcast, but they're a flight companion, a

travel companion. Oh, like who do I want to have taken my first class flight to go record the Blankies with? I don't know why I thought of Michael Shannon first.

Great choice. He's a former Blankie winner. I don't know why I thought of Michael Shannon first. Great choice. Great choice. He's a former Blankie winner. He won a Griffey. Yeah, we're getting, Big Chicago and I are going to go to Chicago after this. That's lovely. Very cold.

Listen to Fighting in the War Room. Listen to Little Gold Man. Little Gold Man. Follow you on Twitter. Yeah. So my name, K-A-T-E-Y. It's sometimes important to figure out. It's important.

Unlike Alvin Brooks, you never bury the lead. No. That's a great moment when he says, and I'm in love with you. And look at that. I buried the lead. It's a great moment. Yeah.

I'm going to say the other Albert Brooks line I like now that we're ending it off. Sometimes I wish you were two people so I could call up the one who's my best friend and tell her about the other one I like so damn much. He's got a lot of fucking great lines. He's got a lot of good lines. This movie's full of just perfect fucking little, little weapons. Little daggers.

Nice to see you. Thanks for having me back. I will fly on back in anytime you want. Well, this was the movie you wanted. So think of the next movie you want. I just feel so lucky that I got it. Like I was prepared to take Spanglish. I kind of cleared the field for you.

I was like Katie's. Yeah. I just figured you needed a woman in journalism who's from the South. And we're like, all right, we got one. Yes. Anyway, who we got for Spanglish is great anyway. Yeah, you'll be excited.

When we record that episode five years from now. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Thanks to Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds for artwork. I'm going for a theme song and for good for social media. Go to Blinkies.red.com for some real nerdy shit.

And, as always, I think you can do these things, Nemo, but you can't. Alright.