Blank Check with Griffin & David - Burn After Reading with Fran Hoepfner

Episode Date: October 5, 2025

What did we learn, Palmer? That 2008’s Burn After Reading is pretty freakin’ hilarious, sir. Our Fran (Hoepfner, not McDormand) joins us this week to talk about Joel and Ethan Coen’s madcap dark comedy about a bunch of morons living in the DC area. The way John Malkovich says “mem-waah”...George Clooney’s homemade dildo chair…Brad Pitt’s stupid face right before getting murked…it all adds up to a splendid tapestry of silliness. Listen, laugh, and maybe you can fit in a run afterwards. Read Fran at Vulture Subscribe to Fran Magazine Sign up for Check Book, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your  pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Blank Jack with Griffin and David Plank Jack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say but you expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Black Jack Osborne Cox I thought you might be worried about the security of your podcast. It's hard to do an impression of him

doing the tough guy voice. Can you do an impression of him at any other time? He does have a specific delivery in this that is really well worked out. I love Terran Killam. He did his pit impression on S&L for years that I never understood.

You'd like you didn't get what he was going for? I do it and be like, I don't understand what this is where you go like, eh. Do you remember that? Yeah, I do. I mean, I guess, yeah, I guess there was. was a, yeah, yeah. But Pitt's kind of hard to do.

These files. No, I can't do it. It's not bad. Yeah. It's like the, he's got the little draw. I, hmm. But he's also got a little bit of like Bill and Ted in him. Like Pitt in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood,

where he's stoned at the, you know, where he's high on acid at the end. And he's talking Austin Butler and he's like, yeah, wasn't that? You know, I wish I could do that. The thing when he's kind of, but that's why he gets more gravity. He's got the, yeah. Wait, but it always feels like he's got a gum in his mouth, which I know is like, that's his tick. Yeah. But, yeah, but not in this so much.

No, he's, he's clear. He's doing something in this. He's clearing this. I mean, this is, I couldn't quite make it work. But the other thing I wanted to do for the quote was I really want to just take some time and focus on my pukal. That's good. I think that's good. But I thought, I thought it wouldn't, I need to tee it up in that way, my pukat.

This is what we're here doing today. We're recording our pukal. I think that doing Clooney in this would be impressive Because he also has a very specific thing going on right in this one Everywhere you look in this movie Someone is doing something completely insane Yes, yes This is a movie built out of incredible performances

That are really hard to define I think this is like Clooney's single most underrated performance I do too just because I think Everyone was sort of focused more on Pitt maybe And even mouth ofish Yeah, everyone over him And he's he'd already born worked at the Cohen's and all that.

But, like, he's so funny. His parts are the parts that make me laugh the most just as pure, like, I can't believe what I'm watching. It is the most past, I mean, this movie is now, what, it's 17 years old? Yeah, sure. From the moment I saw this, his first scene, him taking the cheese and asking about, you know, his acid reflux and, like, motor mouth. Yeah, all that stuff.

I was just like, oh, my God, he's playing such a specific guy in this. He has pinned such a specific type of person. And yet, I lack the words to describe. this kind of person. And in 17 years, I've gotten no closer to describing it other than the kind of guy Clooney plays in Byrne after reading. Totally. It's like a completely undefinable type. And I think it's easy to latch on to Pitt and to Malcovic because we can kind of see like that archetype. But the Clooney character is an archetype of something that is out of space. It feels like recognizable and universal. Well, I would, he's the only

character in this movie. Yes. I'm just looking down the list to make sure that I think I would kind of enjoy hanging with because everyone in the movie kind of enjoys hanging with him he's kind of an easy hang to see you know apart from the go to restaurants

yeah he's sort of like he'll just take you on a date he'll enjoy the movie he'll fuck you and then he'll be like I'll see you later you know like it's just like that's not what he says

come on what he says is maybe my favorite running joke of the movie you cut to woman in bed him coming out of the bathroom fully clothed checked his watch

I think I can get a run in they do variations on that I think five times. And I feel like, I mean, Malcovich doesn't like him, I guess, because Markovich doesn't like anybody. Yeah.

But everyone else is kind of like, yeah, he's all right. And even... I mean, I guess, yeah, Tilda's getting sick. I don't know.

But it feels like Elizabeth Marvel and Tilda both have utter contempt for him and yet cannot deny him. Right. They can't deny that he's kind of fun guy to have around. He's a fun guy to have around. He's like sort of high, low self-esteem.

Like, like, he's very confident, but he also kind of knows that he's like, you know, just a whatever. Does that make sense? I don't know.

Everyone else in this movie kind of thinks they're high status and isn't. Well, he's like false modest. He's so proud of the fact that he hasn't fired his gun. That he has to discharge his weapon, right? That's what you to talk about with your... With your psychiatrists.

I don't have a psychiatrist. But he says it so aggressively. It's maybe the most aggressive he is in the entire movie. I don't have a psychiatrist. He's just... It's also like, I wonder... I mean, maybe this will be in the dossier. I don't know much about the production of this movie,

but obviously they know Clooney. And I wonder if they're bringing... him the script if they're like is there someone you want to do or if they're like we really like this one for it's a good question because he could do other things here yeah the other thing was that their fabled idiots trilogy right

where they duo brother and intolerable cruelty pretty close together and then they'd always said the third one's going to be Hail Caesar what Hail Caesar was changed a bunch of times but it was always this notion of we like the idea of Clooney as a pompous actor at the time it was doing Julius Caesar

I think and then this came out and people were like, so is that the end of the Idiot Trilogy? Is this its own kind of thing? It wasn't part of their original plan with him. His look and this is so good, too. The beer. Oh, I love when he has a beard. He's hot. He's hot. And the little

fucking chain around his neck. Maybe I'm telling on myself, because I know obviously his character and this is a fool. But I'm like, I'm just like, it's kind of hot. Would go on park date with Harry Farrow. It's important to the movie. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I also think there's. And he's not judging.

of Francis McDormand. Like, he wants to fuck the high-profile D.C. ladies, but he's also like, I'll go to date with her. She seems fun. Well, he's, like, supportive of her surgeries, but isn't like, you need them or something. No. He's crazy about her, and she's like, it's, I mean, she's the only person

it feels like he actually connects to intellectually. The best Joe can burn after reading, and then we should introduce the podcast, in my opinion, is just Richard Jenkins being like I used to be a Greek Orthodox priest and then not explaining what happened. I had completely forgotten that. I also kind of forget about it

And then every time I'm like, right, they just glide past it. Yes. I mean, he's like the only solo card actor who is not on the poster called out in the trailer. He's like the secret, whatever, seventh lead of this movie.

You had not rewatched this in a while? No, I mean, I've probably seen this movie like four times. Like, it's not a big movie for me. It's one you're sort of previewed. I am. And I, I... I always, like, have a perfectly good time watching it, but find it doesn't, like, move me. But, um, I had forgotten about Jenkins.

You texted Jenkins is on fire in this thing. And I called out 2008 is stepbrothers, his first Oscar nomination for the visitor and this. He was just, like, firing in all cylinders. You pointed it out and you're right. I just want to point out, uh, and yeah, the stepbrothers, yeah, those three. And he also was a voice in the tale of Despero. He must have been great. Probably is.

I want to shout out how horrendous his 2010 was. Oh, give it to me. And I love Richard Jenkins and I bet you he's good in all these movies. But these were sort of

his post-Oskar cash-end jobs? Maybe, but I think it's also, right. It's like, post, like, higher visibility where, like, he just suddenly is in, like, five movies a year every year. It was that character director moment that sometimes happens

where the storm brews and you get your Oscar nomination and everyone goes, like, thank you for your service. We haven't given you the respect you've deserved for too long. Now we're going to throw everything at you. Is Hall Pass in the

grouping? The Hall Pass was 2011 along, and his 2011 is Friends with Benefits Hall Pass the Rum Diary. I feel like, you know, whatever, but he is phenomenal in Hall Pass. I know, you're a big fan of him in Fall, Hall. You've mentioned this before.

Hall Pass. His 2010 is Happy Thank you More, please. Relax, guest. A movie that won the Nobel Peace Burst? Silence me. I'm not I'm not silencing you. I just, I just knew it would activate you. Happy thinking more, please. Actually, the worst movie title of all time.

Possibly. Quite possibly. Dear John, eat, pray, love. Who's he in that? I don't remember. See, like, I bought you a plane ticket, Julia. Something like that. Dear John, I want to say he plays Channing Tatum's

dad with dementia. That's correct. I mean, he plays Channing Tatum's dad, it looks like. Norman, not the one you think with Richard Gear that was like okay. some other fucking shit with Emily Van Camp. Oh, how dare you.

And then I will say one thing that he is good in, which is the Matt Reeves Let Me In remake. He's really good in that. That's the one saving grace. Yeah. It's just tough that he followed this up with fucking Radner and, you know, you pray love and shit. Can I say something about his 2008?

You can say anything you want about his 2008. I was applying to college that fall, including his alma mater, Illinois Wesleyan University. And so in 2008 to be visiting Illinois Wesleyan University, they were like, you guys know Richard Jenkins? He went here. They were like, we just got it to love.

They were like putting him on the brochure. He was the mascot. They had a guy come out in a big Jenkins foam costume with those sad eyes. I will say, he is the most like Midwest Illinois theater guy. It's like if you were just like, Chad GPT, create like a respected Midwestern theater actor who came out of Illinois. It's like Richard Jenkins just materializes.

Is there a greater like no nonsense do the work actor than Richard Jenkins he i mean it's it's an estimable history of guys like that obviously there's always been guys like that and he just has been that guy or was that guy for 25 years now he's sort of slowing down i this movie gets accused of being their meanest film and even sometimes that's my problem with this is what i was going to say many people who love the coens throw it out as like that's the one that gets too mean and too judgy for me and other people go i love it it's their meanest right of course it's so uh pitch black which is sort of my take on it. But I think Jenkins is kind of the key to this movie. Like, he is the moral

center of the film. But he's, he's a tough hang. Like, I'm not sure I'd want to hang out with this. I used to feel so bad for him in this movie. And now I actually kind of don't know at all. Yes. You've grown up. You've matured. You understand his value. I only root for Elizabeth Marvel now. Yes. Well, she's... But her life is fine. She's killing it. Yeah. But, but yes, that moment of, God, this guy's whole fucking backstory that the movie isn't even, even going to get into Greek Orthodox priest in Chevy Chase. It's so funny. And what she said, she goes, that's a pretty cushy job.

Yeah, yeah, she immediately locks into like, I could be married to a Greek Orthodox priest. That'd be a good life. I think she says that's a good position. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's our podcast? Our podcast is Blank Check with Griffin and David.

I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want, and sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they burn baby. This is a main series on the films of Joel and Ethan Cohen. It's called Pod Country for Old Cass.

That's so true. Today we're talking about burn after reading, pot after casting. Pucka. Elizabeth Marvel? This morning, so Griff, I did something you might appreciate. Oh, who's our guest? Our guest today is Elizabeth Marvel. She's a

Marvel of this world. Our guest today. Look, I don't need to say our guest is today because if you're one of the millions of people tuning in for the first time in over a year, it's because the ultimate blockbuster champ has returned to the ship. The Fran signal has been lit in the sky. The ultimate spike in listenership, the great Fran Hoffner, Fran Magazine. Thank you.

And New York Magazine and many of them outwits. So many things I want to say, hi, Fran. Hi. Did you listen like me to every Spike Lee podcast appearance he did for highest to lowest? and start to grow comforted sort of in like a lullaby way of the like sort of six like phrases or anecdotes he would trot out every time.

Yeah, D. and Lee. You know, I think of it as more of a reimagining. You know, great jazz music, like the way he was great. He has some of the, I really appreciate it. Greatest speaking rhythms. Yes. Yeah. His story about seeing sinners in IMAX.

Yes. Now this, yeah, I wasn't even supposed to be in L.A. That's what he kept like. Imagine that. I get the call. I'm like, wow, Spike Lee in L. the craziest place for him to me. But he's a New Yorker.

I didn't listen to everyone, but I listened to quite a few. Did you listen to most of them? I listened to like a beat you would be covering. I actually was not on this beat at all. Wow. You were sort of mid on highest to lowest. I was mid on highest to lowest. I like that movie.

You were sort of middle to. Middle to low. Middle to middle low. This is France's ninth episode. Wow. You're close to 10. 10 year anniversary? It is a decade of dreams.

It's been a decade of dreams. Public enemies. Well, that's her third episode. I'm not going to go in order, but I'm going to try to knock them out. Sure. There was a Twin Peaks, aliens with a dollar sign. Was that the first one? That was.

Blockbuster episode. Our biggest episode at that point in time. Slow it down. Let's keep going. Yeah, great. I got three out of nine. Fuck. All right.

The holiday, which I think is often cited is our best episode. People will cite it as the funniest. It's very much a sort of platonic blank check episode, I would say. It was so fun. Great Mouse Detective. Of course. Bright Star? Of course.

Lolita? Of course. And the girl with the dragon tattoo. It's a girl who does computers. Girl on computer. I Griffin made a letterboxed list of every thing I own on physical media on disk. I had never, I had tried to do it before and I'd never like finished it around. I was like, I'm going to finish it.

I'm going to put a note for every single one, what the format is to avoid ever fucking doubling up. Because I occasionally will mistake. I will do the same thing. And then I give him to, usually Amistafans. Talk about real embarrassing champagne problems. Yes, seriously. So I make a big list. And I'm also like, and that will, then I can just fade watched or I can filter and see what haven't I watched.

And I sort of have a vague idea, but I wanted just to look at it. I do it. I go, show me what I've just seen. And I know I've seen everything like on the shelf. It's mostly stuff in the piles, right? But then there is one thing on the shelf I haven't watched. Jason Bourne, the fifth born move. You had never seen.

But it was part of the box? Yeah, I have the box. You have the stupid steel box. You got the steel box, not the backpack, right? No, I didn't get a fucking backpack. There was a collector's edition backpack. No, no, no. The five movies packaged in a backpack with a flashlight and a carabiner or whatever.

That's useful stuff. Absolutely. That's true. The fifth one is where he comes back. It's not renter. It's not. It's the one post renter where Damon and Greengrass are like, Tony Gilroy, step aside. And then they just shake the camera at you for two hours while Alicia Vicander like

browses the other than. Tommy Lee Jones goes, I don't know about that. Tommy Lee Jones is just there being like, I'm Albert Finney or whatever. I'm just like whatever that guy is this time. Does that movie suck ass? It sucks ass. It's so interesting because I really like pretty much all the other Bourne movies and you're like, wow, this is kind of doing all the same stuff and yet is really bad.

It's funny how it's like, you know, there is something you had to do something right. Like you couldn't just have these elements. We talk about Damon a lot in the True Grit episode coming up soon. And he's great film And he's phenomenal in it

And then he has a really bad run after that And you can tell the moment where he and Greengrass Sign up for Jason Bourne after it felt like they had walked away Was like fuck we need a hit And it was a hit It made money But the other thing is The Martian comes out like eight months before it does

And you're like he wouldn't have made this movie Right He probably didn't need to like jump off buildings in Greece No like for a while But he was in like post Great Wall panic totally totally totally and the reason I thought about this is just that Elizabeth Marvel is in The Born Legacy

and I love that she's in that movie and I'm a big fan of that movie I think it's very good and underrated and I love to shout out that she hand to hand fights Jeremy Renner in it people don't talk about how Elizabeth Marvel and Jeremy Renner fight in that movie completely forgot that happened

I still haven't seen that one it's the only one I've seen it's really good I'm waiting well I just did the trilogy for the first time over Thanksgiving last year of course I'm giving myself some breathing room. You shouldn't because Born Legacy is set

between the second and third movies and it's like really like weirdly inside the continuity. This is the whole thing five-timers. It's not like we're rebooting. Right.

Griffiths brought this up on. I didn't see the Damon movies and then the Renner one comes out and I'm like maybe this is a clean entry point and it is the most like mid-quilly deep in the weed shit possible and I could not make heads or tails of it. It is also once you watch them all.

It is Tony Gilroy going to war with Paul Greengrass. That series is those two at war. It's much like the Hotel Transylvania. Correct. Double Oter's The Thrillogy. Fighting.

Yes. And it is, in my opinion, Gilroy being like, the action does not need to be shaky. Look at my nice, clean action. And you watch it, and you're like, yeah, this is better. Tony Gilroy is right.

But narratively, maybe that movie. I like that movie. But, you know, I mean, it's an odd duck. It's an odd duck. Burn after reading. I mean, look, Lovlum is kind of... Burn after reading.

Is one of the things it feels like this movie is sort of riffing on. The thing I remember hearing right before I saw it in some interview with the Coens was on set our motto was, what would Tony Scott do? That that was the prism through which we ran most decisions. And it doesn't feel like they're one-to-one doing like a fucking hot shots version of a Tony Scott movie.

But it's such a fast movie with so many twists and turns and like, yeah, yeah. I like that they're not like actually actively aping the visual language of late period Tony Scott or Greengrass or any of those guys. But it definitely feels like a movie that is infused with that in the sort of in the rhythms, in the sort of like intensity of what they're presenting.

And I think these characters live in a world where Tony Scott films also are. Like, they are processing what's happening to them in a very, like, narrative way. It is one of my favorite types of comedy. It is why I love this movie so deeply is it is a comedy largely based around characters having the wrong notion of what movie they are in.

Right? that, like, if you actually untangle this movie and it's what's so great about the ending, you're like, what's actually happening is so different than what's happening in everyone's minds. And it's not just a misunderstanding, which a lot of cone movies are based on.

It is based on their inflated sense of self and importance. Right. The initial and driving thing is Osborne Cox, Malchrovich, thinking his life story is interesting and his, like, secrets. You know, he holds, like, real. And it's probably, I mean,

we never see what his memoir really are. You hear a little snippets, yeah. Right, but it's probably mostly him just talking about random shit no one would care about. I sort of think it would be interesting. Well, maybe that's just me. If he did the audio book.

If he did the audio book. I mean, not only does he think it's important, but he's even talking to his like senile father about how he is worried it might be too incendiary, right? Yeah. Like this notion of like, you might see me as unpatriotic, but I think the story needs to be

told and then multiple important offices look at the material and go like this is enough. Drivel. Like, not important. Level three clearance. Right. We're taking you off the Balkans desk. David.

Okay, okay. I'll be quiet. I'm used to it. Producer Ben is sleeping. Oh, hazy. Hossie boy is Haas spelt zizi, zizi with multiple dashes. What's he sleeping on? He's sleeping on one of the new beds we got from Wayfair for the studio.

Look, apparently we need to talk about how when you hear the word game day, you might not think Wayfair, but you should, because Wayfair is the best kept secret for incredible and affordable game day finds. Makes perfect sense to me. Absolutely. And just try to, David, just, if you could please maintain it slightly quiet, We don't have to go full whispered. I just want to remind you that Haas is sleeping.

I mostly just think of Wayfair as a website where you can get basically anything. Yeah, of course. But Wayfair is also the ideal place to get game day essentials, bigger selection, curated collections, options for every budget slash price point. You want to make like a sort of man-cage. He's David. Okay, fine. Okay.

All right. Sorry. David, you have like basically a football team worth of family at home. You got a whole team to cheer up. This is true. need cribs. Your place must be lousy with cribs. I do have... Fainting beds? I have cribs. Sconces?

Shays lounges? I'm low on sconces. Maybe it's time to pick up a few game-day sconces. This is the kind of thing that would make your home team cheer. Look, I'm just going to say that Wayfair is your trusted destination for all things game day. From coolers and grills to recliners

and slow cookers, shop, save, and score! David! Today at Wayfair.com. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R. dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. David, there's only one shame to this ad read. Don't wake, Ozzy. There's only one shame to this ad read

that I didn't find out about this in time before I already purchased, coasters, grills, folding chairs, patio, heaters, recliners, barware, slow cookers, sports-themed decor, merch for my favorite teams and more. If only I knew.

Cleveland Browns, of course. Vonte Mac, no matter what. Okay, that's the end of the app. Burn after reading. I saw this film in theaters. I was living in 2008. It's just the year of Sims in New York with no friends. My friend was the Regal Union Square.

Where I saw, I think I told you, all of those Richard Jenkins movies in 2000. I was there for me in the Regal Unit Square. You had a Richard Jenkins' Regal Union Square punch card? I really did. And when you showed up for Burn After Reading, they gave you a hope. Yeah, they gave me some grandpile glasses.

And, like, I was hyped for this movie, obviously, because I love the Cohn brothers, and they had just one best picture. And I saw it, and I didn't like it very much. At the time, you didn't like it for that. And I have sort of grown to appreciate it, but I still, it is the one where I'm just kind of like, you know, like when I'm watching it. Here's the arc of this movie for me. I loved No Country so much, as we talked about last week. the trailer for this movie was really fucking good.

And it was everywhere. And it was everywhere. The whole pit is in this movie thing was also like front and center. And we'll talk about it. I've been talking about all series. He's in this movie and he's doing a thing. Everyone forgets how successful this movie was.

It was successful. They sold it as a mainstream movie. It opened number one at the box office. It made a lot of money. It was like a mainstream play in a way that very few of their movies were. And a lot that's coming off the heat of no country and also the kind of like 10-year cycle

of Lubowski becoming like so totemic and huge but the ads were everywhere people were really amped for it and then it comes out it does really well opening weekend and almost immediately the responses like

from critics maybe this is lesser Coens it's more of a lark and from general public like what is this this is not what they were selling in the ads and yeah did it get they got a WGA nomination

for Best Screenplay Bafta nominated Pitt and Swinton in supporting And the Globes nominated McDormann for Best Actress We have to also toss it a screenplay nod Globes nominated for picture and actress Okay And back to give it screenplay Yeah but that was that's about it

Got zero Oscar nominations I probably saw it about a week into release And was like People have cooled my expectations a little after being so amped Saw it immediately was like This thing's a fucking masterpiece it fucking rules. And I watch this movie

like every couple of years. I've seen it many, many, many times. Many, many, many times. I think I saw it opening weekend. Yes, Fran, you were a little younger than I. I was a senior in high school. And I went with my friends, including my crush.

And we all went to go see this. Like, everyone I knew was seeing this movie. And we were 17 years old. And I don't think this was like the first R-rated movie I saw in theater. But it probably is an early one. But it was a very formative one of being like, I'm driving myself to the movies to see this.

R-rated movie. A focus features release. And that's when I learned to love focus features. That's when things came down when it goes. I remember saying to my dad, isn't this kind of crazy that Burn After Reading's opening number one with like $20 million?

And he was like, I mean, George Clooney and Brad Pitt are in it. Yeah, man. And I was like, I had not thought about it that simply. And the trailer just had funny moments and good points. Totally. Yeah. It's also reunites Clooney and Tilda Swinton, and this time

they get in bed together, right after Michael Clayton. Michael Clayton and Karen Crowder, of course. Yeah, you never think about that. You never think about it the whole time. Okay. I said, there they are. I said, that's Karen Crowder. Well, I love Karen Crowder.

You know, every time I watch Michael Clayton. Do you think Trump should try to pardon her? She did nothing wrong. He's going to move her to. She was just keeping her company afloat. A cushier prison. I think we should check in with her. Yeah, we should check in with her.

Do you ever wonder if the, the tragic events of Michael Clayton could have been avoided if they just hopped in the sack earlier, that all this fighting between the two of them was really just tension that was going unspoken. Is Michael Clayton capable of getting an erection? My guess is no. That man has the weight of a thousand worlds on him. He's a sleepy. Yeah. This is a good point. I love that movie. It is not a very horny movie. No. Sex is not really present in Michael Clayton. No one's thinking about it. No. I mean, when Pollock's on screen, I'm thinking about it. There's so much with his ex-wife. Right. And you get the sense that like this fell apart.

because this guy just cannot be present. Like, remotely. And now he has no interest in any way whatsoever. Until he met Karen Crowder. Until he met Karen Crowder. If they had just been able to work through. Look, a little bit of sad news. Producer Ben Hosley has COVID.

He does. He'll be all right. He'll be all right, but unfortunately he's missing from this episode. Here's some great news. Happy news. Friend of the show. Jump in heroically. Producer Ben Frisch.

Hey. Fill in in the seat. You were saying this is one of your favorite coins. Oh, absolutely. Hell yeah. Yeah. I like that it's a Virginia movie. Okay.

It's a, I'm from southeastern Virginia, but I grew up with the kids of a lot of spooks. Okay. Because I'm from Williamsburg where the farm is. Okay. Which is Camp Perry, which is a CIA training center. Yeah. I talk about movies a lot. I feel like, isn't that where like fucking the recruit is set?

my favorite Colin Farrell movie? Yeah, that's your number one favorite Colin Farrell movie, right? Yeah. I've not seen The Recruit. Okay. Well, I'm going to look it up. Carry on. Kind of a boring place to set a series, I think.

But Williamsburg, I mean. But I love that this movie looks like Virginia, looks like D.C. And I just think it's so funny. The cast is incredible. Do you want to know one of the craziest things about this movie?

It was almost exclusively, if not entirely shot in New York City. Really? Like over here. That the Coens were like, we don't have to like go to fucking, can we figure out how to film this at home? Which is funny because it's like a, it's a movie about D.C. Like, and you'd think they would want to like, whatever. I don't know if shooting in D.C. can be a pain in the ass. And I don't know if no country was just such a tough production.

And so often, so many times on this podcast, when the production starts with that, you're like, and that's why the movie's bad. They got too lazy, right? They didn't care enough to go to the place, and now they're, like, shooting in the wrong place, and it doesn't read right. They did a little bit of Georgetown location stuff to get those streets. The vast majority is, like, Brooklyn. Yeah, no, it was shot in Brooklyn Heights. Yeah. You know what?

I'll open the docea. But yet, it does feel like it kind of gets it right, right? Like, I remember the first time seeing it when they go to see the romantic comedy, the Dermot-Moroni movie movie movie. That is now the dearly departed 23rd and 8th movie theater. The Clearview, Chelsea. And I was like, huh, why would they film that there If the rest of the movie is in Virginia And then I looked it up

And it's like, oh, the whole thing It was the bow tie after it was the clear view Do you know the theater I'm talking about? There was the other Chelsea one though The other Chelsea Maybe I'm thinking of this one I think you're thinking this one It went through multiple names

We saw a movie there I think the first time we ever met Yes You met seeing a movie there? I knew it as Sinopolis Chelsea Oh, that's right in between It was after right Yes, yes, yes, okay

It was also United Artists at one point. We got egg salad at Murray's. Yep. Sorry. Sorry, it was like 10 years ago.

What movie did we see? I don't know. Okay. Don't worry about it. And the recruit is indeed set in the farm. Roger Donaldson's The Recruit, which is just like Pacino's like,

ah, you got to be a recruit. This film, Burn After Reading. I do think it speaks to how well they nailed this, though, that you're from there and it was passing your sniff test versus like half of the fucking Amy Heckerling movies we covered where you're just like

this is Vancouver um sorry it's just yes what's going on David something very exciting just happened on your laptop we can cut this out if we don't want to include it but

we're trying to we pay our guests and we're trying to fill in some backlogs because we got a new person who's in charge of like you know payouts and all this stuff and she very wisely has sent out like, you know, hey, hey, like, you know. Checking back. And this is the third person, this one was Carolyn Franke, who's texting me being like,

this is a fishing scam. I have gotten a couple of these two. People think that it's now with fishing scam. I'm like, no, no, no, no. Take our money. Can you send your payment information so we can pay you for an episode a year ago? I've got, I've gotten a couple of those pains. I'm so screwed. For you, it was a fishing scam. It was actually. Everyone else.

What? We made a fishing scam just for you. Okay, so burn after reading. Fast thing thing is that this is No, what were you going to say? I was going to start the dossier, so you go ahead. You seem to be struggling for the sense. No, no, I was just getting the tab open. We're doing great.

We're doing great. We're doing amazing. This is really good. We're paying back people from two years ago. I can't wait to get money. It's going to be really good. I'm going to start spending like crazy. Yeah.

Because I just know money's coming. Yeah, and it's 50,000 per episode now. Oh. That's actually not true. I want to clarify. It's time for me to say this one last time, says JJ. And he's saying it, of course, one last time because he's probably knows it's going to get fired. Right.

Burn after reading. 13th Coen Brothers movie was written during a flurry, unprecedented flurry of activity, where they got No Country for Old Men, a Serious Man, and Burn After Reading, kind of all kind of going at the same time. That is what I was going to say, that this is a fascinating post, like, you know, it's a post-victory lap, no country movie. But it's not. No. Both Burn and Serious Men had been funded and set up before they won the best picture. At their lowest moment, post-Lady Killers, they write these three movies together

and get them made three in a row. The true blank check is true grip. Yeah. That's them being like, more money, please. We want to do this properly. And we want to adapt a book that was already adapted into an Oscar-winning film.

And Scott Rudin is like, why? And they're like, we want to. And he's like, okay, well, go get the rights. I want to say. And he said it that show. He said it that way, yeah. And string cheese firmly in hand. I want to say, and I'm sure we can very,

this or reject this in the dossier that this movie had finished filming by the time they win the Oscars? Yes, and then I guess... Comes out like six months after that. Or they said they had shot most of it before they won the Oscars. So maybe it was right near the end.

But this is like, right, it gets to be the movie after the win, even though it was in no way actually made as the movie after the win. So, burn after reading emerges

from the Cohen's desiring to work not just with one actor, a bunch of different actors Mission accomplished These parts were basically all written for the actors who played them So Brad Pitt

George Clooney This is answering my question from earlier Francis McDormand They knew her They did the head and in John Malcovitch and Richard Jenkins

were all basically purpose built You know in this in this script Swinton surprisingly is the one They hadn't written it for And I've never been able to find who they did write it for

If anyone They were probably like Yeah we'll figure it out It's just always so funny when like it just happened with the new one Joel Cohn is making with Josh O'Connor. It found its female lead.

Francis Mook Dorrell? Who's that? Huh. James Gunn has added Jennifer Holland to the supporting cast of new project. Does this need to be its own deadline? What's that? Flanagan's Pete Siegel? No, look, no disrespect.

No, no, it's fine. When you post the news item as if it's like after a long search. Yeah. So, McDormand, Clooney, and Jenkins, obviously, are Cohen's favorites who they were keen to work with again. Pit, basically, they had been working with together to try and make Two the White Sea happen for quite a long time, so they have a relationship there. And I think with Malcovich, they were just, I mean, correctly, like, I think we could really have fun with that guy. This is my favorite Malcovish performance, and it absolutely feels like a kid on Christmas morning getting the toy they've been dreaming of for months. It's a really outstanding. Unwrapping it quickly and being like, oh my God, look at all the things you can do with this.

They just, you can tell that they're just like, what are the funniest things that come out of his mouth? What are the funniest outfits we can put him in? Totally. And just like how to tap into his kind of seeding energy. Yeah, I think it's my favorite performance of his. That's crazy to me. But he, but it's very funny.

I think he is so transcendently good in this. Yeah. He's really good. He's good. Is it my favorite? I don't think so. So my favorite performance of his is obviously the Vinny Vidici sketch where he's like, I don't talk like that. And Hader starts doing him perfectly.

Oh, I miss Vinny Fidichi. I do. There was also Hater's weekend update where he was Malcovich. And it was after the Madoff scandal. And Malkovich had gotten fleeced by Madoff. Right. Right. In real life?

Yes. Oh. And he keeps doing this thing of like, how do you feel about it? And he's like, I feel fine. And he's like, you're not going to get upset. And he's like, I know what you expect me to do. You expect me to launch suddenly into a hyper-articulate, angry jag. But I'm not going to do that.

And then they just keep trying to egg him on until he explodes. I saw him live once. Malkovich? Doing what? In Chicago? In like a Steppenwolf thing? No, with the symphony. Was he at the bean?

There is, well, it's very close to the bean. Damn it, Frank keeps responding sincerely to my job. I'm not letting you get one in here. I'm not letting you get one in here. There's an Aaron Copeland piece called a Lincoln portrait that is like music with just excerpts from Lincoln. And Malcovich did the Lincoln excerpts. But they didn't announce ahead of time.

That's fun. Who it was going to be. It was just like Lincoln portrait with guest. And so I went with my mom. Four and seven years ago. And then he did Lincoln Park after that? Yeah. in my skin.

It's pretty good. It was pretty good. It was crazy. It was crazy to see him. I can't imagine. He's one of those guys. I mean, he's so fascinating because he talks about, like, acting is easy. I don't understand these people.

I show up. I say words. They pay me money. A dog could do it. And, like, sometimes when people, like, Brando would say that, you're like, you're, like, trying to hide the scent of the process. You're trying to act like you don't care. Malcovich, I genuinely believe, to some degree, it just flows out of him.

I guess so. It must. I mean, it's interesting. I wonder what his process is like. He talks about it as if he does not internalize stuff at all. Because it's, like, Joan Allen, Gary Snees, Glenn Headley, like, the classic Steppenwolf people, you think about those as, like, really sort of like, awful actors who wanted to do new stuff with this, you know? And, like, is Malcovich right? Just this, like, alien they found, or they were like, oh, God, we got to get this guy.

Like, he's the best. Some degree, like, I do get the vibe that, like, obviously, he has a very unique energy and way of speaking, and he has incredible emotional access, right? Like, Malkovich doesn't become Malkovich if he isn't able to tap into that anger so quickly and viscerally. But he, when he talks about, it's just like, I just learn the script and I do line readings. I like him. I love him. When was I first exposed to Malkovich? Great question.

Conair, Cyrus, the virus. I guess it was that run. I guess it was that mid-90s him as a. In the line of fire. Yeah. I guess that's when I'm like, because I feel like the first time I really care deeply about him was being John Malcovic, obviously.

Yes. For a whole generation, he becomes something different because of that. I knew who he was by the time that being John Malikovic came out. I did too. I didn't understand why the movie was about him. I remember my parents having to explain to me, like sort of what he represents culturally,

that him, just the idea of why he was a funny guy to build that around. Um, Malcovich, Malcovich, Malcovich. I was trying to figure out the first thing I saw him in. And I'm going to guess for you it was Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. That's what it was. Really? Yeah.

That makes sense, actually. He's pretty good one-scene performance. What does he doing that? I don't remember. He plays a leader of an alien race who's like a rival of, I don't know, the books. He's barely in. Oh, yeah, he's got the glasses. Well, it's like that and Aragon, I think we're the two.

Oh, sure. Ever Aragon? Yes. Lume's large. in my home. Loom large in the world. Aragon is a great example of our age difference

where it's like I was way too old for that dragon teen shit. I never read it. But you were just the right age. But I knew about it. Yeah, yeah. To have been thrown right at your age group. But look, here's a perfect example.

I feel like the way Malkovich talks about his approach to acting is that he doesn't do anything differently on Aragon versus A hundred percent burn after read. But I also think they're at the same level of real to him. Exactly. That's part of it.

I think he's just on a way. length where he can just read it and be like, yes, I feel this. Go. Put out the costume on my body, you know? You know who I think is kind of like this also? Who? Mark Strong. Interesting. I was just, what was Mark Strong on standby for? Fuck, what was I just reading about? He was on standby for? Like, there was some. Like a flight? Yeah, he was on standby for a flight. And he just wouldn't get, he couldn't get a seat. He was hoping to get upgraded to first? There was some role that I was just reading about that like, you know,

it was definitively played, you know, well by some great actor. I cannot remember. But he was the backup off. He was the backup because they almost couldn't get this guy. Now I can't fucking... He does feel like he has become Hollywood's number one second choice. Because he's always good. Yes.

But it always feels like, huh, did you offer to someone else first who said no? And you realized you could save money in the budget, but also he will knock it out of the park. Someone will tell me what I'm talking about. Okay.

But I always like Mark Strong. He's going to be Oedipus. Are he in Oedipus? With Leslie Manville. The sexy edipus? This time it's sexy. This time, sexy. So just for the listener,

they're staging Oedipus to play. Blockbuster run in the West End. By you're transferring here. Yes. But there's, so there's posters around New York telling you to buy tickets to it. And it has, what's the fucking tagline? It's really.

It's like blank as a motherfucker Yeah, it's like, truth is a mother Where I'm like, uh-huh, the truth that Oedipus, like, just the idea of taking a thousands-year-old Greek tragedy and being like, you'll never guess the twist. It's just so funny to me.

But I would like to see it. Oh, I want to see it so bad. Lean in full, like, Argyle on Oedipus. Right, right, exactly. Don't let the motherfucker out of the bag. Yes. Yeah. Argyle. And Mark Strong was in Kingsman.

He's really good in Kingsman. And then he blows up in the second one? He does. Yeah. Maybe he's an Orgyal? No, because they're in the same universe. As we all know, it was very clearly explained at the end of Argyle that they're sort of in the same universe in some way or other.

Once I learned Argyll's two hours and 20 minutes, I said that's not happening. Argyll do be long. Biggest spoiler warning block of all time. Alert, alert, alert. The end of Argyle is the real Argyll showing up and being like, hey, I'm a Kingsman now. No. In a flashback. Sort of.

Kind of. Kind of. I just know Doolipa guns down Ariana DeBose. And I said, that's crazy. That sounds like. But it's like, at that level, I'm like, wow, crazy. I think that is the first 45 seconds of the movie. Yeah.

So the Coens are making burn after reading. This is, I think, one of the ultimate the Coens just being like, I don't know. We just wrote it, who cares, like, in all the interviews. Because they're like, hey, we wanted to work with these actors that we wrote to them. Uh, it's a spy movie. We'd never done one before. Honestly, it could have been a dog movie or an outer space movie. Funny to imagine them just being like, let's do a dog movie.

Movie with a dog. It's also funny to say that when this movie does feel so angry. Like, it feels very pointed in their disdain for many of these people. Totally. Joel says it didn't really turn out as a spy movie, obviously. He is correct. The original idea was one. It's not really meant to be a comment on Washington.

It's just about these characters. That's crazy. Right. This is the whole thing where I'm just like, everyone stop interviewing them. Well, because this movie isn't political as much as it is like exposing a deep,

deep cynicism for our political system. For like middle class bureaucrats who like sort of run our country, I get. You know, like, Joel, here's a better quote from him. The quote I was reading from earlier, he literally in the middle of it says, sorry, I lost my train of thought or something. So I'm going to go with this one.

Cool. The story is about middle-aged people, all of whom are undergoing professional personal and sexual crises, touching on matters of national security. That's what makes it a Washington tale. But they had, years and years ago, apparently tried to do an adaptation of advice and consent, the sort of political drama from the 60s. So, like, I guess they had sort of thought about a political movie before.

That's, like, a more of a real political movie. But then they also say, like, yeah, it's our version of, like, a Tony Scott movie or a Jason Bourne movie without the explosions. And Joel also says, a seven days in. May sort of thing. No, it's not. What? That's like set in the White House. It doesn't matter. But they, I think fundamentally Griffin,

this is speaking to sort of what you're saying, are like, it's a Hitchcockian like McGuffin movie. There's nothing at the center. Like it's all just people being motivated by nothing. And that's what amuses them the most. Right. This is a... They're all circling a thing they think exists, but doesn't exist. This is a real

the ending as the conceit movie. And like, I can heard this almost to inherent vice which the first time I saw it I was like so angered by right and you get you get to a final scene where

like Martin Donovan kind of unravels the movie and both explains and refuses to explain what's been going on and makes it clear how little the character is actually understood right tenant right and that tenant open doors in that moment the movie

basically says like you're kind of of a fucking moron if you were trying to make sense of this film up until this point, which the first time I saw it, I found very antagonistic, right? Yes, me too. I have seen it many, many times now. It is a movie that has grown on me, and once I now just submit to it, I'm like, the story does not matter. I enjoy it as a Supreme Hangout movie.

I think what is great about Burn After Reading for me and its construction is it doesn't feel overly complicated. You can watch it and be like, I think I kind of get what's going on, and I'm curious to see how it comes together. Yeah. And then at the end, when they go, like, actually, if you zoom out, none of this really matters, it doesn't feel like a deflation of what happened up until that point. It feels like the ending is the conceit. This is the thesis of the movie.

Here's our point. The best thing in the movie is the ending, obviously. Like, that's the thing that everyone remembers best, even though there's lots of other memorable stuff. But it somehow inflates the movie rather than deflates it, whereas I think often these kinds of endings of... Right. Of like, hey, you know what? Turns out this is all bullshit. Right.

Well, the movie's not mad at you for caring. No. And it's actually sort of exposing how little these guys care is kind of the point. But like you care the right amount. Also, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but J.K. Simmons is right in this movie. Yeah. All his like thought, like decision making is basically correct where he's like, no, no, no, get rid of that. Deal with that.

Yeah, pay her. I don't care. Like, where he's just like, let's just make this not messy anymore. But there's also, there's a deep cynicism to how. Yes, of course, because he's like hearing people died and he's like, well, whatever died. And yet, right, I think this is what they're really drilling on, in on, is like, at the end of the day, these are like weird bureaucratic middle management jobs. Like these things, it's a thing I find very interesting about this movie, especially at time of just like peak political conspiracy theory culture, right? Is I think one of the main, like, ideas behind this movie is just like all of this is so much less organized than anyone wants to believe it is in both directions, right?

Whether you take comfort in that or you have deep fear of that, even when insidious things are happening, they are most often just sloppy, messy, completely out of control, just like, it's just idiots stumbling around. Now, they claim this is not political movie and all that. They will admit that Francis McNorman's character is very inspired by Linda Tripp. Mostly in that Linda Tripp wanted a bunch of cosmetic surgeries, which was sort of like an under like current

to a lot of Linda Tripp's behavior during the Lewinsky scandal in terms of Linda Tripp wanting money or trying to figure out how to get monetized things or whatever and so they kind of like decided to put Linda Tripp, you know, in a new context.

So that's one of those things from like, okay, so yeah, you guys aren't just like being like, oh, who cares if it's setting Washington? Like, I'm like, no, you're making fun of like these kinds of Washington to how to gadfly, like lower section of, you know, like the government kind of people, right? Like, I don't know. Yeah, I also think, look.

Obviously, she doesn't work for the government. She works at a gym, but she's in D.C. But she's very obsessed with power and stature, as we said. Right, right. Those people in Hollywood would laugh me out of town. Yeah. To, like, some D.C. stuff. Like, it's like, why would you live there if you don't work for the government?

And it's because of, like, an obsession with the culture of government, to some degree, I think. Yeah. And it, like, translates onto, like, a Greek Orthodox priest and Chevy Chase. It's just the idea of like power through osmosis, some level of status by proximity that she's clearly drawn to. One of these people who's caught in this like absolute catch-22 of being miserable about being single,

but being so like ruthless in her strategizing of what she wants a relationship to be and how she thinks she could be appealing to that type of person versus having it exist on any organic emotional level. Just her like disregarding of other people while also being terrified that other people are going to disregard her. And I think, you know, a lot of the complaints of people

who think that this movie just pushes like one step two mean is, is this movie really, really judgmental of this character? And because she is not someone who actually operates a real lever of power, is it like a misplaced cruelty? And I think it's like the fact that they cast Francis is very telling and the fact that the movie keeps going like, you don't need these surgeries, you know, that it is not like, I think there's an argument the movie is shaming the idea of caring about that kind of thing. Sure. Which is a whole larger, messier cultural conversation about bodyful modification and what have you. But I think it's more about like a misplaced sense of what is missing.

in this character's life that unifies almost all of the characters in this movie, right? This sense of like, here's how I want to be seen, here's how I see myself, here's how I obsessed I am

with the idea of my position and what I need to do to maintain that or continue to reassert that. Yeah. Well, and also because in Francis has become so I'm going to the Oscars

with no makeup. Yeah. Which I think was not always the case. Correct me if I'm wrong. No, I think that's something sure. No, but I think she is like in that very rare group of actresses in, like, her age class, I think of Annette Benning feels very similar to me.

Niat. Niat, where they're just like, we want to play women our own age. Yeah. You know, like, we are not trying to look 40 forever. We're not trying to look 20 forever. Look, the thing about Francis McDormand, she's very funny in this. Yes. She's playing a Cohen's character.

It's a mean. The movie is not right. It's not fond of this character. No, it's, I think he's a mild understanding of her pathology, I guess. But it's like, you know, it's a pretty mean. But it's mean-meanest to her of at least all the other women. I would, yes. But she does remind me of other stupid sort of, you know, Cohen's characters with silly motivations.

Like, it's not like I'm like, this is the first time they've ever had a character that you're basically like, oh my God. you know, like, at their motivations. No, there's, there's kind of a level playing field, and there's also the comparison of, like, the two other significant female characters in this movie both refer to each other as, like, Ice Queen bitches. Yeah, they're higher, I mean, they're way higher status than her, too. They're way higher status than her.

They have the ability to, like, fall back on money. Right. Or other comforts that she doesn't have. I think, I saw people, like, in our Reddit litigating this, right? This, like, recurring thing of, like, this discussion point of do the coens hate their characters? Are they judgmental? This and that. And I saw someone put it, I think, very well, which is, like, no, the key is that they actually, like, love these idiots. And I think that is big, right? I think that very often they have, like, an absolute adoration for their silliest characters.

That, for me, like, really, you can feel in the DNA of their films. And I think she is in that vein where they, the movie, think she is very silly but also does actually consider her emotional inner life in a way that it does not as much with the bureaucratic characters I think the mere fact

that it's like trying to explore her like internal struggle but it's also why Jenkins is like the moral center of this movie because he's the only guy where he's just like can't everyone just like sort of try to figure out

how to be okay with themselves totally and keeps trying to talk to her directly and she just doesn't listen to him And this is one of those movies where, like, none of the events that this movie happens if, like, six direct conversations happen. If, like, six conversations where people can just actually say what's going on and express themselves intelligently, like, with emotional intelligence, all of the incidents basically are preventable. Has this Ewok always been on my desk? I placed it there recently.

David's gotten really back into Ewoks and little Ewok Butts. We do have some Ewok Butt discussion coming up on the show. Have you ever thought about how they have a little furry butts? David won't stop saying this. Okay. It's fine. I don't really think about Star Wars or... He thinks about it all the time now.

The creatures. I had taken a good long break thinking about it. And then I thought about it again. You rewatch Return of the Jedi and he texted us. Do you ever think about how the Ewoks have little furry bucks? And now I hear that like three times a week from him from some form. I don't think it's that often. I guess he knows not to text me about that.

I'm not complaining, but it's coming up a lot. Yeah, I'd text you about something else. Yeah. I'm really into Pine Martins lately. Pine Martins are cool. They're pretty cute. They're like... They're sort of a cousin of like a, you know, a ferret.

Yeah, exactly. Pine Martins. Yeah, they're all over my reels. I feel like... Spelled how it sounds? Martin, like, with an E. Okay. I feel like one of the...

His Dark Materials characters, demons is a Pine Martin. Oh, sure. Right? Yeah. There's a Scottish... I think he becomes one permanently. I like these guys.

There's a Scottish woman who feeds Pine Martins on Instagram. You and Emma. Yeah, her name's told a Swinton. You Emma and I You never really see her So it could be She gives them honey and whole eggs

Which I'm like Well I guess you wouldn't like that But I think that's a great diet Yeah I like the first part Right is yeah Not Scottish But has Scottish antia ancestry I believe Right yes

Maybe she is sort of Scottish I think she's kind of Scottish She's like half Scottish maybe Yeah right Well she lives there She's from London But yeah maybe she lives in New My Tilda Swinton

Is that her Is her name? Yes I've never thought about that time. Oh, yeah, because in the Joanna Hoggshort, she's credited as Matilda's winter. And why? Can she, like, make books move around with her mind? As long as Miss Honey supports her emotionally, it's like Tofer Grace. Christopher?

Yeah, his name's Christopher. And you're like, oh, right, yeah. That one I think, I guess I knew. You know, just honestly, I haven't been thinking much about him lately. What's he doing? Remember when he was in two movies at Cannes? Nope. Black Klansman? Yep, and under the Silver Lake.

Oh. What a crazy year. He had kind of like a swing back. I mean, he's in flight risk this year, a movie that he is in the entirety of it. Yeah. It's not like a thing where you're like, oh, Tofer swung in for 20 minutes. It's like, no, they're all in that fucking plane. He has.

He's gap, yep, yep, yep. A bigger role than Mark Wahlberg in flight risk. Absolutely. That thing is depressing. It sucks. I was so mad about that movie. It should have been like fun sucking. Exactly.

But it's not even that. I actually admire Mel Gibson's Mel Gipson. Well, he is kind of in a way. Yeah. Mel Gibson's action filmmaking. I was like, this is weird and annoying. What? You're smiling at me.

Have I ever told this story that I had my screen test for The Tick? This was fucking 10 years ago, nine years ago. And I cared so much about it. And I left and I went to my agent's office in L.A. And I was just like, I really think that went the best of possibly could have gone. I think anything I could possibly do to convince him to give me the part, I did the best performance I could have given. And I really feel good.

And if I don't get it at this point, it was just out of my hands and I was never going to get it. And he went, that's great. I'm so happy you feel that way. And I have even better news, Tofer Grace just passed. And I have even better news,

Tofer Grace just passed is like a sentence that lives in my head and infamy where I was like... Sliver in your mind. Oh, so that whole time I was in there, at any moment, Tofer Grace could have emailed and said, sure, why not? Tofer Grace is like Joaquin-Pen-Penixen Glider is holding his thumb out like this.

It is just a perfect snapshot of what it feels like to be a young actor. Right, where you're like, I'm fighting so hard and they're like, some guy hasn't checked his inbox in three days.

And if he's bored, he says yes, and the parts is. Yeah. All right. But you have to go to Can. I want to end run through the dossier just so we can talk

about the movie. So basically the way the Cohen's work is they send the script to Eric Felner and those kinds of people. people, you know, they're producers. And I assume they're basically like, we can get some actors.

And everyone's kind of like, great, well, let's do it. It probably will cost a reasonable amount of money. The budget of this movie was 20, 30? Yeah, I think that's about right. They get everyone to like basically work for scale or certainly well below their quotes. But at this point, if they're going to work in title and they have like a $20 million film where they tell you they can get six actors attached, we can tell us like, we don't even need to read the script, whatever you guys want.

Tilda, as you mentioned, one character they hadn't written for anyone, they said. Okay. And they just cast it with Tilda Swinton, a good actor. Matilda Swinton, just to correct you. And apparently at the end of the shoot, Clooney touchingly and willing, wistfully, sorry, according to Swinton said, maybe one day we'll make a film together where we say one nice thing to each other. I like that. Me too.

They haven't. I don't know that they've worked together since because George Clooney's been too obsessed with climbing the mountain of mediocrity. She didn't jump in the boat, right? She's in Hale Caesar, but I don't think they interact. They don't. They don't, because she's just interacts with Brolin. And interacts with Alden a bunch.

She talks about him a lot. I mean, the whole plot of that movie is her threatening to expose him. Right, but they don't. He doesn't, he's really with the communists mostly. But it continues the tradition of they're not saying nice words about each other the entire movie. They're both talking poorly. Is she?

No. I'm missing Jay Kelly to be here right now. Wow. You're going to see it. Yeah, I was like, what am I going to do? Nazi Jay Kelly? And it's the only time I'm going to love. I also heard the line was crazy.

I heard that too. Tildes Swinton, yeah, enjoys making this movie. The Coins told the actors to embrace their inner knuckleheads. Basically, if this is not part of the Idiot Trilogy, fine, but it is basically about all idiots. There's that clue? It's oops, all idiots. Absolutely. there's that Clooney story we always bring up

where Spielberg was watching him work on the set of ER and comes out from behind the monitor and goes like if you could ever figure out how to stop shaking your damn head you'd be a movie star I noticed that in this movie he never stopped shaking his head. It's like the bad tick that he's been trained out of

he knows makes him look dumb and he reinstitutes it with like a vengeance of this. He's really doing it and he's really well deployed. Pitt was I mean so like Clooney and Malcovic are like yeah yeah, we get it. I get it. Like, big dumb idiot. I get it. Pid's a little, I guess, taken aback that they're like, we wrote this part for you. This guy's a numskull. Like, you know, like, I mean, it must be, you know, but they go into, I guess, a wardrobe fitting with his hair like that and they just, I don't know, you know, they just decide to, because the hair is very crucial. The story I'd always heard was that they found some earlier commercial he had done at the beginning of his acting career.

He'd done this commercial with his hair like that. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, a long time ago. Right, that it was sort of, it wasn't like a prank on him, but it was the equivalent of like his, like, the rock with the turtleneck and the fanny pack photo. They found, like, the silliest look publicly available from his early 20s and said, like, can we dress you like this? Which I think is a big part of it is like Pitt is playing this guy like he's 25. Well, yes, but it is 40. Right. Which is why that character is so awesome. It's the key to the character.

Yeah. Yes. Clooney grew up the beard. He thought they would fit the part. So he just showed up with it. Francis McDormand. This is from Ethan. It's a good quote from Ethan.

It's fun to write for Fran, not you. Because you know she's good. It's not fun to show the script of her once is written because she yells at you. As Joel puts it, you've been writing it for another number of months and she'll go, this is it? But we usually work through that.

Francis McDormand, quote, in my first scene, the description said, close up on a woman's ass, pale, bear, middle age. Why should one even read on? Why would one even consider the job? There you go. Oh, she cracks me up.

So, yeah, she cracks me up too. They did almost entirely shoot the film in New York. Clooney was working on another NYC-based project. I don't know what. Leatherheads maybe? Possibly? I don't. 2008?

Yeah. I don't know. But that was, in theory, the reason why they worked around that? Yes. Up in the air? No, that's not New York That's all over Yeah, oh, they're in the air

He's up in the air often In that film. It's not mostly in plane. It's weird that the working title for that film was called Up in the Plain and nobody liked it. Malcovich said the first scene he did was the phone call with Brad and Francis that you quoted for your opening of the podcast.

He was rehearsing a play in Paris which is like the most John Ockleyish thing to be. He's in France? Like, imagine if you're like the CIA and we're like, we have to catch Malcovich. It's like, Okay, first, let's go to every play rehearsal in Paris. Let's see if he's there.

Doesn't he primarily live in France because of taxes? I believe he's one of those guys. He's very much one of those guys. He owns a chateau. That's the whole thing where he's like, I own a chateau in Paris for artistic reasons. Also, I pay no taxes. Also, I design my blazers here. You know, he has like a clothing line.

No. But he's like Michael Jackson. You could say any pretentious thing about him and I would believe you. Right. Like that he has a, you know, a brand of cheese or whatever. He makes his own jellies. Yes. So he said he did the phone call

in his apartment in his Paris screaming at the top of his lungs That's funny So obviously didn't shoot his side of it But was truly on the other end of the phone Okay Roger Deacons was busy Shooting Revolutionary Road

David's favorite movie So this film was shot by Chevo This breaks the streak Yes very long streak 10 consecutive deacons movies Maybe something close Because of Sonnenfeld does the first three So it's like the subsequent eight had been Deacons

But yeah, Deacons is having his time wasted by Sam Mendez Another unfortunately likely place for him to be I'll say it Chevo fucking crushes this Yeah, I like that he's not reinventing the wheel But he's also not just copying Deacons Yeah, for sure What's Cheva done lately?

I was just looking at that, Amsterdam Who was I talking about this with? I thought this was an on-mic conversation He really stopped working Shevo, yes I mean, he's shooting the new Inarita movie. Which is in the can. But he didn't do Bardo.

He didn't. Kind of crazy. He did a fucking disclosure, but I think he only did half the season because it went on so long. You mean disclaimer. That's what I mean. Disclosure is... The Quaran series. But he...

He did do that, you're right. He won three Oscars in a row. He sure did. And since then, he has one released feature film. Am I correct about that? I think Amsterdam is the only one. 22, Amsterdam. And then like half of a TV season

and a handful of like short films and music videos. It is always funny when it's like, oh, we couldn't get Lubeski, so we got Darius Conjew, where these guys have to slum it with one of the eight other great cinematographers working today. Kind of like a Mark Strong situation.

Right. They, yeah, Lubeski, though, had a great time making this movie, said they have a very close relationship. Ethan was saying in many ways, they're complete opposites. They both do amazing things, approaching things in such different directions.

Great. Thank you, Jivo. One thing that they built for this movie was the sex machine. One of the greatest props. The George Clooney sex machine. They had seen it, something like this, at the Museum of Sex in New York City. My old office, the Atlantic used to be right by at the Museum of Sex in New York City, which is on 23rd in Madison. And they said to George Clooney, apparently, like, if you want to go see it, like, 23rd in Madison.

And George Clooney was like, the last thing I need is to be coming out of the Museum of Sex and you guys. George Clooney. And then a big part of this movie I do feel is Carterboro will score. All percussion, right? Like big drums, big, like, just like the most sobriety and like bombast possible for like

the stupidest fucking shit. And yet, I would say there's an emotional theme in this movie that is like one of his sadder themes in a canon of very sad Cohen brothers like motifs. Classical Fran, do you have any thoughts on

Carter Burwell scores in general, or this one. My man does break out like those oboes and clarinets. Yeah, I mean, I think this film has a great score. I like Carter a lot of, not like a ton of his more recent stuff, which is starting to get, I mean, some of these guys who have been around forever does start to feel like playing the hits. But I love his score for Catherine called Birdie. I mean, the true grit, he did true grit.

It's the best. That's, I mean, that, like, I bought on CD. And I listen to all the time. It's incredible. I do feel like the coins are really good at kind of pushing him each time so that he didn't get stuck in a rut that I agree with you. Most legendary composers start to, like, play the hits a little more. And since they have slowed down, he's maybe become a little bit repetitive. I think there was enough of a swing and difference from their movies.

and it also felt like they would ask him for different things. He can't reuse Fargo tricks on this, you know? Totally. Yeah. I don't think about the score a lot, I have to admit. I really like it. It works, yeah. Yeah.

There's like what I would colloquially call the loneliness theme in this movie that feels like a very kind of like slowed down piano-based melodic version of the intensity of the drums and this kind of like spiral into. sadness that's especially played in all the, like, dating scenes and the sleeping around scenes that I find very effective. Um. And then the rest of it, yeah, it's like a parody of the kind of score that Crimson Tide would have. Right.

David. Uh-huh. You know that moment when you sink into a hotel bed and think, why doesn't my bed feel like this? Um, I do. I love to sleep on a hotel bed. I got a solution. Lisa. Griffin.

I love Lisa. Lisa is like having a hotel sleep at home! Now, obviously, I love the season for Simpsons episode. I love Lisa. Uh-huh. And you love Lisa the character. Great character. And I love the Apple Lisa as a sort of interesting artifact

in personal computing. And certainly as a story point within the film Steve Jobs. But I also own a Lisa mattress. Now, it's Lisa with two E's and an S and A. And I have, I think I got it a few years ago. And it's the best mattress I've ever owned.

They just sent me one. They just sent me a king mattress because I'm now thinking of upgrading. And Lisa has rejoined the show to, you know, partner with us. I was thinking about getting a little taller. And I said, why not? Splurge on a California king. Did you get a California size? I did.

Crazy boy. I'll grow into it. Lisa isn't just luxury comfort and reasonable price. They prioritize doing good for the world. So there's, you know, actually. sustainable sort of elements to this. As a busy parent, I can't control how long I sleep. Damn, this ad copy is reading me for Phil.

I was going to say it's, they serve that one up to you on a platter. But I can control how well I sleep and since getting my lease a mattress. Even a quick nap, which I took this morning. Feels like luxury. When sleep is hard to come by, having that level of comfort truly matters. It's one of the few things in my day that's just for me. Okay, so like they've got four kinds of mattresses, I think, in each size. All of them are cool.

Yeah. I had, I think I have this. pure a hybrid? Yes, I do. And this new one I'm trying out is, I think, the legend hybrid. That's what I got. That's what I got. You said cool and you meant cool as in a rad. It's rad. I want to point out as someone who sleeps hot. These mattresses actually keep you cool as an internal body temperature. They are meticulously just meticulously designed and assembled in the U.S. for exceptional quality. There's free shipping, easy returns, 100-night sleep trial. tested and awarded Best Hybrid Mattress

by the New York Times Wirecutter exclusively featured by West Elm as their go-to mattress partner. And Lisa isn't just about sleep, it's about impact. Boom, bam, that's the sound of an impact. They donate thousands of mattresses each year to those in need

while also partnering with organizations like Clean Hub to help remove harmful plastic waste from our oceans. That's not where we want the plastic. We don't want it in the oceans. Absolutely. So listen to me. Go to Lisa.com for 25% off mattresses, plus get an extra $50 off with promo code blank check.

That's our name. Exclusive for our listeners. That's L-E-E-S-A.com promo code blank check for 25% off mattresses plus an extra $50 off. Be sure to enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. Lisa.com promo code blank check, one word. David? Yes. I wear glasses. Ah, to see. I do in fact wear them to see. I used to wear them as an affectation when I was a child. Well, I did the same thing. I pretended they were real. And then people found me out to be a fake. And then because of that, when I started actually needing glasses and wearing them for real, all my friends. You're crying wolf. Convinced that it is still just an affectation, but it is not. I, I, I, I, I, I,

You need them to see. My vision gets worse by the minute, it feels like sometimes. But I just stopped wearing mine. Yeah, how's that going for you? It sucks. Yeah. See, this is the thing, Ben. What do you mean?

Why did you stop? I just got lazy. Ben, you got to get your butt to Warby Parker. You're the one who's always telling me the value, throwing a good fit, right? Yeah. And feeling good. It affecting your whole sense of self, right? And Warby Parker is like throwing a fit for the face.

Yeah. It is. It truly, it immediately improves your quality of life. If you're on board with glasses. Right. Rovey Parker used premium materials. They design frames in house. They've got silhouettes, colors, and fits made to fit every face.

I love the frames themselves. But let me, can I just talk about the experience? Because, David, I went through it again recently. Okay. I had an old pair of glasses that had been my mains for a while. No. Break on me? After several years of loyal service.

I salute them. And I went and it was one-stop shopping. I said it's been two years. Let me get a new vision test. Get your eye exam. Let me get examined, new prescription, eye pressure test. And then immediately while I'm waiting for the results, I'm going around, I'm looking at frames, I'm trying them on.

And there's a flexibility there, right? Folks just want cool sunglasses. You can get them cheaper at Warby Parker than a lot of other places. But sometimes you see a sunglass frame you like and you go, can I actually get this in clear? vision lenses. Can I get this pair meant to be readers as sunglasses?

You can try on all sorts of crazy stuff. This is my new thing I'm into, sunglass clip-on, so you just got the one pair. Sure, can pull the Chris Farley meme. Warby Parker has over

300 locations to help you find your next pair of glasses. You can also head over to Warbyparker.com slash check right now to try on any pair virtually.

That's Warbyparker. com slash check, warbyparker.com slash check. And if people want to flip a grip style, I'll just say I'm currently rocking the toddy wide frames and tortoise shell. How do we go through the plot of this film? Here is what happens in this movie in Basic. Go ahead.

Try. Osborne Cox is fired primarily because he's a drunk. but also you gather because no one likes working with him. He's annoying and he's a drunk and he yells at everybody. Right. He's got this kind of whole John Malkovich thing. Right. He's married to a very high status woman who one of the funnier reveals in this movie is that she's actually a pediatrician. Very late in the film, you realize. It's one of the best jokes.

I haven't known what she does. I assume she's also in this world. And instead, she's yelling at a kid to open his mouth. That the two high status ice queen lives both work in children's fields. he decides he's going to kind of rattle the world by writing his memoir his big expose

of his time as a spook unfortunately in finding out that he has lost his job his wife Tilda decides it's time to finally file for divorce she tries to take financial documents off his computer when she does so she also

gets his memoir which is placed on a CD-ROM that is in the gym bag of the aid to the divorce lawyer who then leaves it at the gym where is discovered by Manolo. His name is, well, that's true. Manola does find it. He found it on the floor.

He hands it over to the other three. Linda Litsky is Francis and Brad Pitt's character is called Chad. Yes. Jenkins is, of course, Ted. She desperately wants multiple procedures. They're actually separate procedures. There's separate procedures. Yeah.

That her... It's kind of what, like, face, boob, butt, uh, maybe sort of eyes, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, she's gonna... Rhinoplasty, they say, too. Who's that? Who's that? guy playing the plastic surgeon. He's the best. He's so funny. I love him. Right. It's Jeffrey DeMund. Of course.

Yes. And it's a great Cohen's move where most of that sequence, you're getting extreme close-ups on her eyes or on the parts of her body, but a lot of it is uninterrupted oneer of Jeffrey DeMun. And you just get to watch. It's a thing the Coens do that I love. You're watching a manipulator beautifully. Beautiful. Yes. But also like the, what you get when you stay on one actor and let the other side of the conversation be off-camera dialogue is you get to watch. all the little touches that like an expert character actor puts into a scene like that without cutting away for the tiny little moments. It's so good. But yes, she has four procedures she wants to get that will not be approved by her Mickey Mouse HMO. Right. It is funny that she, I guess you're supposed to be like, she just went and scheduled

all this shit and was like, I assume my gym's health insurance covers like $400,000 worth of I think her logic is totally sound. She has a public-facing job where she has to look fit. Yeah. Why would the company not take control of that? They sense an opportunity that they can use what they think is high-level government secrets to blackmail and get the money for the procedures. Good Samaritan tax. So they begin trying to blackmail Osborne Cox.

The first image from Gore's Verbinski's movie that's coming out next year. This looks pretty. I may be going to see this movie this weekend. Oh, really? What? I'm very screened. Yes. Cool.

Yes, I'm very excited. Cool. Gore's back, baby. I hope so. Good. Yeah, the other wrinkles in this are Tilda Swinton is already having an affair with George Clooney, who, what, he was previously, what was his shift in position? He was in private?

Yes. Who are we talking about? Private protection. He's always like in PP, private protection. And now he's working for a guy in the Treasury. Right. He was a U.S. Marshal, then he was, yeah, yeah. And he carries a gun.

Yeah, he carries a gun, but he's never discharged it. Tell us what he's been having an affair with him. He's been dating everyone. He's been dating everyone. And he's married. Right. And I get the sense that she's been kind of his focused side piece and the second she's getting divorced and is starting to push the idea of like, then you should also get

divorced. Now he needs to start like expanding his range. I don't think he's ever been hyper focused. But it does feel like he goes back out there in a big way once she's maybe going to be looking for something more serious. So he starts sleeping with Francis McDormand. Are there any primary characters we haven't looped in here? No, that's all the main people.

Yeah, it's not that many people. Yeah. Okay. Hi jinks ensue. Hi jinks ensue. But yeah, I guess you need to know that, like, Francis McDormand goes on internet dates because she's looking for a partner,

whereas Harry Ferrer is just like a serial philanderer who just, he's always having sex with people. Yes, these kind of like intellectuals. sexual superiors who are weirdly drawn to him almost in kind of like he's like a puppy yes and it feels like there's almost a little bit of a sexual charge in how much they can

high status him and he won't push back right he's he's I guess a little subby but he is also working on a sex chair yeah oh and he has such a good runner about the floors I forgot about that he's always asking what a floor is made of or guessing you know it's so good kind of like detail obsessed guy who always wants to ask these tiny follow questions like in O brother

Clooney's thing is the hair and in Tavercruly teeth's teeth. And in this, I mean, it's sort of the allergy thing where his throat, I guess. Acid reflux. But the floor thing is right there with it. It's sort of like the weird hyperfixation. Right. Yes. Right. He seems

to be, you have to imagine he's a pretty proficient lovemaker. Yeah, I think he's probably really good. He just, this is what I'm saying, it seems like a fun hang. But, but like, go see the shitty movie with him? The movie make me, the movie The movie make me think. The movie make me think. The movie make me think.

Movie make me think sometimes. And in the end, movie make me think. The movie makes me think that he is probably a bit of a jackrabbit in the sack. And yet, the second he's done, he jumps out of bed, gets dressed, and goes, I should run this off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That there's something kind of like Energizer Bunny about him. The scene where he calls Elizabeth Marvel in the car, after spoiler, he has shot Brad Pitt to death. and he's just like spiraling out of control

and you're like, oh, this guy is just like so much like uninhibited forward motion and anything causing him to stop and be introspective is like an absolute crisis for him. And that's like, oh, this is the cornerstone of his relationship with his wife at some point she clearly was into the idea of petting his head and making him feel better.

And now she does that for children. Yes. Who are interested in government. And also big burly men grab her shoulders as she has affairs with them. Right, she's also preparing to file for divorce from him, so there are divorce lawyer,

toadies following him around in black cars, which makes him think that he's part of some larger conspiracy. What were you going to say, David? Brad Pitt's character in this film is like the positive sunny version of John Goeburn and the Bigelbowski.

He is like a low status but high opinion of his own intellect fool who keeps having the like a bad idea about how to right drive the plot and i know how to do this obviously goodman is like this is a fake you know hostage situation and we're just gonna give him a dummy and right and brad pitt is like oh he found like weird like security secrets we should just blackmail them they'll probably just pay us like a reward well and especially that like they arranged the meeting and malcovitch is like let me explain to you fuck off right and then even when that makes Pitt angrier

and makes McDormann even angrier and they push back, Malkovich is just annoyed. It feels like at no point is he ever considering giving them money. No, not at all. And Paul also doesn't have any. Part of it's like philosophical. Right. Part of it is like logistical. And there's also the just like this isn't how

this works. You don't get to do this. And he knows that he is so much this guy's intellectual superior that he thinks he can logic him out of even attempting to do this stupid thing that he's in over his head on. What was Pitt doing right around now?

Well, Benjamin Button's the same year. Yeah. He has the line read of the movie to me. Which is? When she's scrolling on the dating website and is like, oh, he works for like the State Department or whatever. And he goes, oh, that's cool. It's so good.

I like have to wind it back every time I see this movie. The key image of this film is his smiling, as the British would say, gormless face in the one second before his brains are blown out. This is, like, the first time I didn't cover my eyes for that. Uh-huh. Because I had not seen this in a while. And you knew something bad was going to happen when you're watching it. Yeah, and I'm so squeamish, but now I'm sort of like, whatever.

But it's so funny. I'd only ever seen the still of him smiling, but never in actual the movie. It's so funny. The way you're watching his brainwork and Pitt does play it very, very well, of like, where he's like, okay, I got to hide. And then he's like, maybe if I just come out smiling, you can tell he thinks that's going to work. You have this, like, extended. expertly crafted, no country-esque, like, plus quickening. Oh, I'm trying to steal something.

Right. And you're stuck in the closet with him, seeing the POV, and you're like, fuck, how is he going to get out of this? And yes, as you said, the split-second decision of, if I smile really big, will it disarm this entire situation? There are like 15 things in this movie you want to refer to as obviously the funniest thing in this movie. But that might truly be the funniest thing in the movie.

I suppose you're right that there's, I mean, I already. said that the funniest thing was Jenkins being an Orthodox priest. And the reveal of the sex chair. The sex chair is like a classic Cohen's thing though, right? Where like they built up to something and then it's like the most ludicrous stupid thing you ever saw. And then her being thrilled by the ingenuity of it. But it's like

it's a serious man with like Jefferson Airplane or what, you know, it's like... I almost think him destroying it is way funnier than the reveal. But I guess you obviously need that. When he takes the bat to the dildo specifically, he's hitting every other part of the chair and then you see him. This is like, they're all these moments like what you're saying with Brad Pitt, where you're like, they somehow

build such a specific enough character that you can see the gears in their brain turning in a millisecond of what they think they're accomplishing. And he goes like, well, it's not really broken unless I hit the dildo. And then he's just hitting a hard aluminum pat to a rubber dick, which does nothing. Now, given how prominent dildos are in driveway dolls, is this and Ethan Cohen fixation that we're getting the first sort of glimpse up. Perhaps.

Yes. It's just funny. Perhaps. No, it's just the wonkiness of the chair, how basic it is, the squeakiness, the sound effect on it.

Well, and it's like the floors thing of like, he saw this and was like, I can figure this out. This is for me to determine and do it cheaply. He was so offended when he saw the price

they were asking for. I can build this for $100 all in and then he qualifies except for the Dilda that was great. He can't hold rubbery yet. Like, he hasn't figured that out. But it's not like money is tight for him.

No. No, I don't think so. But it's a principle. Which defines most of the characters in this film. Totally. Yes. Their idea of their principles that they have to maintain a line on. So, as everything's going wrong, we have this brilliant idea to check in with people who are, like, in charge of monitoring crises of intelligence in America.

Yes. David Rasky, Ratchy. I always say his name wrong. honestly don't know how you say his name. I used her for a long time. I was like, David Rash, of course. But no, it's rashy, I believe, is how you say it. And he's

an esteemed theater actor. He's been in a billion movies. Sludgehammer, which was a espionage parody show in the 80s. I do feel like he was already so famous and he's so funny in the loop and stuff. Yeah, that's what I know him from. But then, like, Succession

did turn all those sort of middle-aged character actors into celebrities of a new sort, including him. But he's very funny, and he really plays all this shit perfectly because Simmons, J.K. Simmons is obviously like, what, what? And like, every time JK Simmons is like, fucking send him to Venezuela, he's like, of course, yes. You know, like the way his personality is basically like, I assumed you would say that, and I will be taking care of that. He's so funny. It's such a good double act between the two of them. I also think it's such funny metacasting of like, the Coens obviously love J.K.

Simmons have worked with him up until this point. In 2000, If you're putting J.K. Simmons behind a desk as the boss, everyone's thinking J. Jonah Jameson, right? Even if he looks totally different. So the movie makes you think, like, oh, he's going to come in, deliver the bad news, and J.K. Simmons is going to, like, blow his top. He's going to lose it. And to just have the no-sell of him being like, ugh.

The Russians? Like the three-time. He checks, like, the... Just never mind, never mind. You know? Is this his third, Coins or second? Lady Killers? Lady Killers.

This, I feel like, there's a third I'm forgetting. He's in true gritty and a voice cameo, but that's after us. Maybe that's all I'm thinking of. Isn't there another one? Isn't there another one? I'm already forgetting the movies we've covered on this podcast,

blank check. J.K. Simmons. Just kidding Simmons. Just kidding Simmons. What does J.K. stand for? Jonathan Kimball. Well, well, well. I did not murder her.

You like that. It got me. Let's see. I just feel like there's one on a bad. and I'm going to find it, but you guys keep talking about whatever. He's the Eminem. He's the Eminem.

He is Yellow Eminem, of course. Right, because it was originally John Goodman and John Lovitz for the first year of the commercial campaign. Oh, I thought you were about to say in Burn after reading, like that it was Goodman and Lovitz in the CIA scenes.

That also would work. That's something I'd like to see. Yeah. Lovitz was originally red M&M, Goodman was originally Yellow M&M. I don't think I ever thought about it before. And then I think after a year, they were just like,

movie star salaries to continue playing these roles in an era where that was not the expenditure they were willing to put in and so it's Billy West and J.K. Simmons are the like downgrade sound alike's and now it has been so funny to watch J.K. Simmons hold on to the role with an iron grip for 30 years well past being an Oscar winner.

I don't find a third one so I guess it is just those three true grip obviously being a tiny voice cameo. What else do you guys want to talk about? Burn after reading. Come on. Come on. This is your favorite movie of all time. It's a horny-ass movie. True.

I think you're right at picking at this is maybe a little bit of the Ethan's side of things coming through. I'm not mad about it. It's just funny. It is one of the things that is startling about the two Ethan Tricia Cook movies. I haven't seen them. You haven't seen either? No. I'd be very curious to hear of your opinions.

They don't interest me at all. I'm sure I'll get to them. They have a lot of dildos. I mean, drive-away dolls. Okay, that's not really... I know. I'm not saying that that should interest you. It's just driveway dolls has like multiple sort of visual jokes built around.

The entire plot is built around. They are so outwardly horny while also treating its sex in a goofier way than almost any movie I've ever seen. That's like, I don't like... It's odd. And like, Burn After Reading has a... Not to be sex negative, but... But Burn After Reading has, like, a version of that more so than the way sex is depicted in any of their other films. Sure, but they're not sexy filmmakers.

They're not. They mostly aren't going to be having a little bit of fun and sort of like giggling. And even in a movie where people, attractive people are having sex with each other, the only act of sex I think you actually see in the film is Francis McDorren's terrible date. Yes, that's really good at sex. Which is one of the more depressing sex scenes.

Yeah, that's really top. Whoever that guy is, he rocks. He's like trying not to touch her. It feels like he's sort of like, you know, like sort of doing press-ups where he's got his hands on the bed so he won't. Don't touch her. And he's got this, like, consternated facial expression. It's great stuff.

What's the fake movie called? Get down from that tree. Yeah. Coming up daisies? No, something daisy. Yeah, I got to look it up. I love Dermott. He's so good.

Claire Daines is on the poster with him after they ended up together in Family Stone. Yep. But you don't actually see Claire Dane's in the movie. Up Daisy. There we go. Coming up Daisy. But I just love. Claire Dane's is the female.

That quick series of, we've seen Brad Pitt weigh in on the dates. she like kind of like through gritted teeth is like I guess he's fine but she has such disdain for all these guys she's getting right and this dating service and all of this that meets up with him is immediately disappointed seeing him

in person even beyond her settled expectations I think his only line of dialogue is when he self-identifies in the park and then you cut to like dinner silent movie he's not laughing she's laughing he's laughing he's not

sex he's like in his own universe not connected to her not speaking which I think is like one of the areas in which I contend this movie kind of has affection for her is like you don't put that scene in unless you want the contrast of her and Clooney actually have a connection

that like one of the central tragedies of this movie obviously you wish she would just listen to fucking Richard Jenkins who's right there right? Well right I mean the triumph of this movie is she gets what she wants she does, I guess, everyone is dead. She wins, though. And Clooney's in Venezuela.

Clooney's not dead. He's in Venezuela. Richard Jenkins has been hatcheted. And Brad Pitt has been shot in the head. So she doesn't really have any friends or, like, Osborne Cox is in a coma. Osborne Cox is in a coma, not that they ever had much of a connection. I guess Tulsa Swinton's doing okay.

They could link. Yeah, maybe. Tulsa's wouldn't hate her. Oh, yeah? You think she'd find her a little ghost? I think she'd be negative. I also love there's that brief scene where she's talking to the woman at the gym

that she's giving the tour to who's like, oh yeah, my friends got hooked up with guys on that and it's sort of like, okay, so it's obviously working for some people. It's not working for her. But I also, I think it's like, it's not that she's being too picky.

It's that she's like trying to exert too much control on the abstract idea of what she wants her love life to be. Sort of a classic dating app thing. Yeah. Yeah. What's the app called? I mean, it's a website.

Something DC? Yes. Yeah. Meet me DC or something. Yeah. You say the thing of like Pitt thinking, being a kind of more benevolent Walter, or at least a friendlier Walter, his move in the scene in the car, and I guess he does it over the phone as well, but certainly in the car scene, where he clearly thinks that Cox is going to be rattled by him knowing his name.

And so he just keeps repeating it with increased intensity as if just saying it is going to make him go like, oh shit. And any time Malkovich kind of like traps him in a logic corner, he just resets to, well, Osborne Cox. Appearances can be deceptive. Right. The way he... I don't think so, Osborne Cox.

He just keeps starting and ending sentences with it. The thing is, Osborne Cox. The way he's so startled by getting hit. Yeah. And then he goes into the car. You know, Francis Vigr picks him up. And she's like, where's the money? And he's like, uh, and she's like, what happened?

He's like, he hit me is really good. Also, you think that's a schwin is the only thing that makes him break his act. And then his, like, absolute panic, not of being punched, but at like, that thing was only back there with a kryptonite lock. You can break through that thing with a big pen. It's a very, it's, yeah. It is funny to look at Pitt at that. moment where it's like the year before is Ocean's 13

Jesse James. This year is Benjamin Button. The year after is Inglorious Bastards. There's funny stuff in all those performances, except for Jesse James. It's not very funny movie. That's pretty serious. He's got funny stuff in it. Yeah, but he's like. Right. But like those are very serious movies by and large, not so much

Ocean's 13, I guess, where he's like playing pretty tough guys. Right? Like by and large. And then like in the middle of that he just, he has this. And then he had three of, he had a like a a break and then Tree of Life Moneyball and it was like, fuck, Pitt. And then it's kind of like,

forget it for a while. I mean, obviously, his personal life disintegrates. Remember that? Remember that one? I mean, yeah, war machine is way later. I mean, it's sort of like it's allied and stuff that you can kind of debate, and Griffin loves

to debate out of course. Yeah. Fury, like that, you know, where it's sort of like he plays super stoic, like World War's E. Fury Allied. You know what I mean? where it's like, I don't like those performances that much. I don't, like, none of those performances register that hard for me. I've never seen World War Z, but that feels like an ultimate example of him being like, do I need a Jason Bourne, right?

Right. That he had been pushing himself so hard for a decade plus to do unconventional stuff, work with interesting people, get more, like, sophisticated movies made at a higher budget level, that he clearly was like, do I need a tent pole to, like, set my forward value and clearly tried to make that movie something more interesting and then everything fell apart. It sort of was a hit and worked anyway.

And then I think at the moment that his fucking life spirals out of control and he clearly like hits a fucking wall. He seemed to respond with panic of like do I need to make more conventional movie star moves now. Like now there's been this run of like

F1 and money the fucking bullet train. I almost said money train and what have you. It was a money train. Right, that despite the fact that the guy's now in his, like, late 50s. You're right. And Wolves. Don't forget Wolves.

Right. Those are all like panic moves of... A little bit. I mean, he's, yeah, 61. He's 61. Yeah. I mean, the thing that he's good in is Babylon. I agree.

I agree. But, you know, that movie. But like Outlier in the run we're talking about. Him showing up, supporting a role, doing something that's kind of self-reflexive versus these other ones where he's like playing into the Brad Pitt coolness, which I think. he wants to just, like, sell the narrative as much as possible of, like, remember what we all like about Brad Pitt, you know?

Yes, it's calculated. My big complaint about F1, where I feel like I've heard a lot of people be like, why isn't he awesome in this? This feels so similar and set up to Moneyball, and yet, like, it's not activated in the same way, is that, like, in all of his best performance, there is, like, the coiled anger that he is clearly trying to suppress an F1. that he doesn't want the sense of darkness in F1. So F1, he's basically playing the moneyball character

except without any demons. And even when he talks about- He's got demons in F-1. I have a different read, I think. The big emotional scene where he reveals his demons is like, yeah, well, you know, I blew it. Yeah, I mean, F-1 is a little trifly. I like that movie.

I like that movie. But yeah, yeah. But he's removing the core of his character, which is any sense of, like, tortured, you know, the stuff that he does want people thinking about. He's, like, sleepy in that movie. He's a little... He's a little...

Cowboy. He's old cowboy coming back, but there's no, yeah, there's no rage. The thing about F1 that is both, you know, frustrating, but also you can't deny it. Where it's like, he's just like, yeah, I can still do this, by the way. And the audience reaction was like, yeah, we enjoyed that. And the world's reaction was like, here's money. It was one of those things where it's like, yeah, now he can make movies on that scale for another five years. Kind of autopilot. Because he proved it does sort of financially work out.

Fran, what's your take? That was my take. It's like Western. Old cowboy comes into Newtown and shows them how to. to do everything, old-fashioned, you know, get off your phone, millennials type movie. I think it's sleepy because he's, like, removed what is actually his battery as a performer, like his kind of, like, special move.

And I think you compare it to Once Upon Time in Hollywood, which is similarly like this guy is like the ultimate fun, chiller cowboy, but is like stuff's happening. Well, but also in Once Upon Man, he's playing a really scary person. That's the whole thing he wants 18,000 miles away from F1. And Brad Pitt seems like. kind of scary. Like, you know, and, you know,

you know, who's so good in F-1. Uh, Habibir-Bardam. Yeah. He's, yeah. When he goes, not yet, not yet. That is one of those just. We're all talking about Rubin from F-1. Everyone's talking about Rubin.

I haven't talked about Ruben season. It's Ruben's world and we're just living in it. That is just, he just can do whatever. And I will lap it up, like a dog lapping up. Has he become a when's he bad? Has he ever? not been? Like, I didn't...

But, I mean, I guess I know what you mean in terms of, like, you're like, he's like, I'll be in La La La Crocodile and kind of starts a Oscar box. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you... Maybe one of his five best performance. That's what I'm saying, where he's like, I'm going to do La La La La Crockdown

and you're like, why? And he's like, oh, I don't know, maybe check it out. Actually rock. You know what I mean? Like... Yeah, I mean, the only thing against it. I mean, obviously, in June 1, you know, he pops up at the, you know, he's just peppered in. And you're like, oh, sure, Bardem. He makes sense in this.

And then in June 2, he's like, I'm funny in this. And you're like, you are funny in this in a very serious movie. Do you like him in Skyfall? I feel like that's the world. I love him in Skyfall. Of course. Some people hate that performance. Who?

Where? People. I don't know. I love it. That performance is like magnificent. Yeah, I think it's a crap. Yeah. And that performance is like, I think so tapped into that movie is so like, it's the anniversary

of James Bond. We're doing like a 20th anniversary. some of the things that we deemed previously too silly for the Craig era. Right, a little bit. I mean, the whole push and pull of the Craig movies is they're like, can we do a little bit more silly? And Craig's just like, just a little bit. But Bardem is striking the absolute perfect balance.

That's why it's good. And he's like, I'm going to play all the James Bond villains. And I'm going to get at the core of all of them, which is they all kind of wanted to fuck him. And like, that's what's so the push and pull of that and skyfall is just so good. I think he's fantastic in that. The two I haven't seen are, uh, live action

Little Mermaid and Salazar's revenge there is there is no defensive live action that's what I was gonna say the only Captain Salazar

I'm like are those actually some people really like Salazar's revenge he's trying he's trying there's just nothing there Little Mermaid's

autopilot though I forgot he's in Little Mermaid I can't tell you a single thing about that movie I never saw it Big Dad Nipples

yeah well that's just that's apparently a thing I said When we did our episode on the animated Little Mermaid David said something

to the effect of you know how can Triton has big dad nipples. Sure. I guess I know exactly what you're talking about. Oh, in the cartoon I said that. In the cartoon you said that. And you're like, does Javier Bardem have them in the movie?

Right. Right. Because you have those pepperonies. And I think he doesn't. Those Papa pepperonies. It's just so funny when he's like, I did it because my children would like to see that movie. And I'm like, your kids don't want to fucking see that movie. No. They don't want to see you play King Triton. They want to see some other shit.

You know, they want to watch senior balloons. They want to watch animated little mermaid. Probably, exactly. Yeah. But he is of late, of late, kind of crushing it. I would love to see what he does next. I mean, counter to everything we're saying, Pitt, like, finds

a different motor in this that is incredibly fun and is not tied to any darkness whatsoever. Like, this is a guy who does not consider darkness. It is incredible how thoroughly he, like, nails this guy's entire worldview. As you said, as embodied with, that's awesome.

He's probably only in it for 10 or 15 minutes. Like, everyone is just... Well, in any darkness in the movie really upsets him. He's like a clown. He feels it all like so purely when he's yelled at. Right, right. I mean, and it's like, it's what makes this character worthy of judgment is like,

if the documents were as important as they think they are, what they're doing is actually very fucked up. I'm not even saying, like, in an unpatriotic way, right? No, it's just kind of insane because they only, they're like, let's threaten him. That didn't work? What is the address?

of Russia here. Like, let's just go present this to Russia. They're out of their depth and the files are like a nothing burger. Yeah. But in their mind,

they could be handing over nuclear codes, you know, which it's just like, if your sense of, like, self-importance is more important

than, like, global safety, it doesn't reflect super well on your moral balance. Oleg Krupa, very, very funny, the guy who plays the Russian guy.

Love him. No? Yes, friends? Yes. Another line reading I love where he goes, So you're not ideological? Oh, yeah. Where he basically just calls them out for having no feeling whatsoever about what they're doing.

There's nothing at stake for you. Yeah. Jenkins, who this is his third, Coens, right? He's in, uh, no country. Sorry, man who wasn't there. Yeah. That sounds right. Yeah.

And, um, he is, um, desperately saying. dad in the film. Also is, I wouldn't assume his gym is just like in total shambles because two of its highest level employees are basically never there. But I don't know if there's much more to say about him except that like, of course, he gets

killed with a hatchet trying to steal shit for a girl he has a crush on. He's not there. Representing hard bodies. Right. Basically, his final words are she's not a moron. Right? Like, he then says no, no, as Jenkins,

as a how much comes towards him. Right. But, like, all this character wants to do is defend McDormon's honor. You are a special person. Why don't you see that in yourself? You are worthy of love. And from, you know, whatever. Bad boyfriend.

That's the root of it is. Like, you are worthy of love and she thinks she is not and that she could not possibly be unless she is, she gets these multiple procedures done. Right? Yeah. Do you think she's happy after this movie? I hope so. Possibly. I do, I was, no, I was going to say, um, uh, you saying Pitt's only in like 10 to 15 minutes. He enters pretty late because McDormand doesn't come in into like 15. I think he comes in around like 25 minutes. Um, a thing I like about this movie is it does have a kind of like relay race narrative structure where the lead is constantly changing. Who's pulling you forward in the story without it being like a, a traffic-esque, here are multiple timelines, kind of thing. McDormand is probably the closest thing to a true lead. Clooney is top build, and he's sort of the lead.

But Clooney's also kind of like second fiddle to everyone he's in a scene with. That's what I'm saying. Like, each scene has a lead. No, I know what you're saying. And then very often the scenes are grouped together, and you're like, for these like six minutes, you're riding it through them. It is the one Coen Brothers movie where I do kind of buy that they're like, yeah, we just kept writing.

Like... We thought what other funny shit could happen. And then we thought what other funny shit could happen. And we were just thinking of what cool actors could play what crazy parts. And, like, you know, we've sort of fitted all together. It does the relay thing that you're saying. It does have that energy. Yeah.

Yeah. It has an economy, too, which is great. It's not overstaying. It's welcome. It's not hitting any beats too hard. It is a gorgeous 96 minutes long. A worst movie would have way more pit because they'd be like, oh, he's so funny. We got to get it.

It's like, that performance stays so good in, part because there's so little of it. Yeah. Yes. I also, I just like that I think what is interrogating the sort of anger in this movie, as we're saying, is like, is there a fundamental problem in modern government structures where this becomes a position of like social capital versus the idea of these people being like public servants? Like, is this like part and parcel with why our government is constantly failing its people? You know? That this idea, of like it's status more than anything else that all these people are so concerned

primarily with their like wine and cheese parties and like who's zooming who and who's got what desk and what book they're going to be able to write on the other end of it versus any of these people actually seeming to care about what they do their ideology is just themselves absolutely and even like

Cox who you know he he is the lead for like the first 10 minutes of the movie, when we're really sitting with him, has this sad moment where he's talking to his, like, completely psychologically gone father. And even when he's starting to dictate his memoir, where he is talking about who he thought he was going to be, right? That he wanted to be one of Moreau's boys and he wanted to, like, kind of shake. We were young and there was nothing we could not do. Right. And he's like, you know, and it's not what you would have done dad, but, but it's different today than it was when you, you know, this idea that he like

entered it too late and he used to be idealistic about it. But yet all he wants to do is just like, have people view him as important. That's all an extension of that versus any idea of like, this is what I believe. I used to believe I could do for the people. I also just want to call out the memoir bit is exactly how my mother talks. She's now made a paywalled, uh, Patreon appearance on our Die Her With a Vengeance episode? That's true briefly, yes, yes. And I forget what the version of it was,

but I called it out, but my mother, who is French, but speaks with like a pretty mid-Atlantic accent will just fall into, like, and what Jean would you say the movie was? Right, right. Well, your mother has French heritage.

Yeah, no, as I said, but she doesn't, she doesn't speak with any French inflections, and then if she is using a word that is part of the American vernacular, but has French origins, she pronounces it so hard. I love that. Yeah.

It's great for her. David, this episode is brought to you again by Mooby, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe. From iconic directors to emerging hauteur's, there is always something new to discover with Mooby each and every film is hand-selected so you can explore the best of cinema, streaming anywhere anytime. But what, David? What if the cinema is actually kind of TV?

Wait, this is a debate now. This is a debate. No, it's a very cool thing. We allowed to log this ad read on letterboxed is the debate. To mark the 35th anniversary since the release of the ground-breaking television show Twin Peaks. The complete original series, plus its 2017 follow-up, the limited event series, are all available for the first time on movie. It's very exciting. I see people, even just last.

Last week on the Reddit saying, hey, I still haven't watched Twin Peaks. Should I listen to the episodes? Are they going to spoil things for me? People are catch up with the back catalog. We did all Lynch last year. We did all the Twin Peaks. Maybe you want to watch along. Maybe you want to rewatch.

Maybe you want to watch for the first time. It's a great, great opportunity. David Lynch's distinct vision and, here's the word I always mispronounce, aesthetic, have made his name synonymous with a unique cinematic style. Lynchian. Oh, this is so very lynchian. She breaks the borders of reality to expose the unsettling truths hidden behind the American middle-class happiness and allow the viewer to indulge in a bittersweet and dreamlike confusion. Why has this become like a wrestling promo?

Because I'm trying to hype people up. Okay. Obviously, you should go watch Twin Peaks if you haven't on movie, and then you can go listen to our long discussions about it on blank check. That would be exciting. There's also really cool other television on movies, such as Coriata's Going My Home. Laura's Frontier's The Kingdom Which they restored, yeah William Kentridge's self-portrait

as a coffee pot And coming up And coming up, one car wise, blossoms, Shanghai, and Mussolini Stone of the Century from old Joe Wright Old Joe Wright And we do have a big Joe Wright fan Who's silent in the studio with us

Who's giving me a double thumbs up Yeah, Mark Frost and David Lynch's twin Pete We love it Just dream the best of cinema You can try to movie for free for 30 days at Blank Check that's MUBI.com

slash Blank Check for a month of great cinema for free. Before we begin to wrap up you wanted to talk about the theater of the new year

and I don't want to forget about that. Oh yeah. I just think that this is something that Blank Check listeners should be aware of and would probably like. And was vaguely around the same time. It was in sort of 2005, it was a sound play created by Carter Burwell, correct?

And the Coen Brothers. Cohen Brothers, Charlie Kaufman. But Carter Burwell was the one who sort of brought both of them in. I think it was his idea to begin with. He does the music for both. Okay. For both of them. Well, actually, there were three.

It's a little confusing. So there were a few performances of this. The main ones of which there was a recording, I think this is in the New York performance, is two sound plays. They're basically radio plays that were performed on a stage. But like with live fully work and sort of the idea

to do a throwback to an earlier 20th century form. Yeah. Yeah. The first one, it's called Sawbones by the Coen Brothers, which is about

a frontier veterinarian television show that is sort of one perspective and then there's a woman, like a housewife, who watches the show who falls in love with a traveling salesman and her husband

who's like in a fire watchtower. And then the second play is the Charlie Kaufman play called Hope Leaves the Theater, which I think is among his best work. It's now, yeah. Pardon me for Talk Telling Tales at Schoolkeeper. This Charlie Kaufman play, I'm told that it broke the fourth wall somewhat.

It did. It stepped out of its own reality. And it makes one of the running jokes in it, which I think is very funny, is that Charlie Kaufman has died. and this play was the last thing that he wrote

and so you have Merrill Streep like tearfully on stage breaking character to talk about how this was the last thing he wrote

and... Am I mistaken for thinking that Anomalisa came out of a later iteration theater for the new year? Yes, correct.

It has never been recorded. Right. Sawbones. Yes. Was replaced with Anomalisa in L.A when they staged it in L.A.

Yes. It was a 30-minute version and then... But it had... Fulis, Newton, and Jennifer Jason Lee. So it had the cast of the eventual movie. Right. And in Charlie Kaufman's frustration of not being able to get another movie

made after Frank or Francis fell apart so many times, Dino Samatopoulos, who had started his stop motion studio, was like, what if you adapt that? Anomalisa was supposed to be just a 30 minute short at first, and then they went to Kickstarter and raised enough to make it a future. Very, very cool shout out. Those things are

absolutely worth listening to. 100,000%. You have Meryl Streep sings in it. Yeah. Also, just, I mean, all the kind of Cohen Brothers miscellaneous stuff, we keep on sort of scanning around for like, is there something interesting to scrap together to do a bonus episode on Patreon? And none of it really feels episode worthy.

But of the stuff we're not covering, I would almost recommend that most strongly. So is it listenable? Like, can you find it? Yeah. It pops up on YouTube every so often. I'm not sure I haven't checked today. If it's, you can find it there. It was only broadcast on Sirius.

like once. Wow. Yeah. But there are MP3s of it. Yeah, I just downloaded. It's around.

Oh, you already download it in the time between asking. Yep. But so many of like the theater projects and whatever are like

Ethan's solo things. The fact that this is one of the only Joel and Ethan co-written things for a different medium is interesting in and of itself. David's biting is now. I mean, I do that all the time.

It's been something I've been doing since I was a very little boy. Pediatrician told me a long time ago that it's no different from any other side. self-harming behavior, and I really should look into it. Still doing it, 39 years. Was your pediatrician Tilda Swinton from this movie?

Yeah. I mean, he said it a nice way, but he was like, you're aware of, like, what self-harm is, right? That's what you're doing to yourself, because I, like, tear the cuticles up and stuff. And he was like, he was like, the psychological principle of what's happening. It's the same basic thing. And I was like, okay. What age were you? That was probably like a teenager.

It is fascinating that you remember this verbatim. Oh, yeah. Unpacked it so quickly and still do it. There's been, like, a couple times in my life that I've successfully kicked nail biting for, like, a longer than, like, whatever, a few days. And then something will make me anxious. And I will start unconsciously doing it. Thank you. I mean, I've gotten married and, like, maintained a career.

Two things my mother told me would be really at risk if I kept biting my nails. Yeah. So, take that, mom. I take it back. I'm going to buy her 4K, but I know where I'm going. Yeah. The creature is putting it. As you said, this movie didn't have much Oscar juice.

It gets the SAG nomination, but that's very much a classic SAG. Hey, it turns out that six of the top qualifying movies are ineligible, or not SAG, I'm sorry, WGA. There are always a couple weird WGA nominations because other things were disqualified, per their specific rules. BAFTA went through it more hardly, but Pitt and supporting, which kind of would have been the obvious. is overshadowed by Benjamin Button the same year. Tilda had just won. Yes.

Sort of a bad Oscar year after an incredible one. Yeah. And it's kind of a like, what is it, 99, where you're like, what a great movie year? And then you look at the Oscars,

and you're like, why did the Oscars not understand that? Look, I won't... In 2008, it's a sort of similar one where you're like, I mean, there are some decent nominations, but obviously it's the one that leads to the multiple...

I was going to say. I will never miss an opportunity. to say that. It is the year that breaks the Academy Award. Where they're like, if you guys aren't going to fucking, I mean, but it's not just Dark Night and Wally, which are obviously the big two. I put Grand Tarina win there as well. I think all three of those movies. Right.

Big hits that audiences were like, we like that and the Oscars are like, Frost and Nixon. You understand me? Here comes the slack. They talked to each other. I like Frost Nixon. Wow, have you seen it recently? No. It stinks. And I like Peter Morgan. I'm a slap for

that stuff. Yeah. But it's not very good. Um, I'm just reading over these nominations. Ooh, you know what's in here? Revenge, ever seen that? Yeah. That movie's good. That movie's good. That's actually crazy that got a best foreign language.

I was going to say that was a foreign film. That was one of those like, oh, weird, they nominated something cool. Once in a while, they'll sneak a coolly in there. They've overhauled the whole process. And now I think it's a slightly better field. But certainly, like, before 2015, if something that actually was kind of awesome got in, it was astounding. I think you had to, like, be 95 to. who vote for that category back then.

You know what I mean? Like, obviously it's most, I'm joking, but like because you had to watch all the movies, it was all retirees who were watching it. My memory is that in order to vote in that category, you had to attend screenings and check in that were marathons. So it did have to be retirees because it was like Monday through Friday, you're going to have to show up at the academy and watch five foreign language films in a row and check in to prove you've seen all of them before you've.

vote. And anyone who was busy wouldn't do that. Right. Shall we play the box office game? Are there any other things we want to talk about before I do? This movie makes me laugh really hard. I think it's really fine. Francis? You know who's great in just one single scene is the guy serving George Clooney with the divorce papers. Who he tackles in the street. That guy's great. I mean, he's the ugly Betty guy. What's his name?

I couldn't remember who he was. I meant to look it up while watching. He's in a bunch of other stuff. Wait, the guy who serves the papers at the bar or the guy, Kevin Sussman. Kevin Sussman is the guy I'm thinking of. What's his, the name of the firm he keeps talking? I don't know.

But it's just funny how mean he is. Yeah. He's phenomenal. I think of him as the wet hot guy, of course. Also great and wet hot. Who can control the weather with his hand. Oh my God, of course. I mean, he's in a million things.

And has made like $8 trillion from a Big Bang theory. I think now is the star of a Big Bang spin-off. I saw Young Sheldon once on the street. Really? How is he looking? what age youngish this was the problem that's why the show's not

on the air anymore I will say I saw life of Chuck it's not like Tremblay's bad in it but I do think I'm like can Tremblay I think I need him

to wait a few more years when Andy fully adult Tremblay they bury Tremblay they do in that movie I went to that to see Tremblay he's barely in it

they sold me a Tremblay picture and here I am waiting until the last two minutes. You know, that movie, honestly, whatever they would sell you on it, you'd probably end up being disappointed because it's got so much shit going on. That was a real challenge to market,

and yet I think they may be settled on only the worst approach as possible. But it's like, Tom Hiddleston's going to hoof it up in this movie. It's a Hiddleston soft shoe picture. And you're like, boy, are you going to be really confused for the first 45 minutes of this movie? And then very happy, and then confused.

And then back to me. But you know who's so good? Lillard Lillard is phenomenal in that thing. Talk about a great one-scene performance. Like a real journey. The kind of performance

that feels like it's a Cohen's thing of just like letting an actor you're very familiar with but you've never seen get this kind of runway go on a full journey and show you an entire life within one scene. The other guy I like,

he's a two-siener in this but Tulles-Wittance divorce lawyer who loves the kind of excitement of the idea that he's not in the beltway but he's adjacent to it. Yeah. And the comings and goings. Yeah, you can be a spy too.

And then what's the thing where he brags about who his wife saw out at dinner? I don't know. He's a really good performance. Anyway. Also the book, the children's book, the TV sequence. That's very old-fashioned common brothers. Like Bruce Campbell should probably be in that. Okay.

The film made 60 domestic 168 worldwide. The worldwide number really does feel like you're kind of George Clooney. Brad Pitt number of like it does not matter what the movie is. Right. Back then they are going to just get you something. But this movie had good marketing materials. It did. It wasn't a total hide the ball, but it was a kind of like reconfigure

the elements in a way that is a lot easier to digest. It's funny though that they did not go for like, I mean, the classic poster was that red poster, the sort of cartoony with the, with no floating heads. It's like a Saul bassy but giant yellow star names. And then, right, the faces only come in on

like the home video release. Number one at the box office on September 12th, 2008. Never forget. Opening to $19 million. What do you think? This is number two. One. It is number one.

Burn after reading is number one. Right. Number two to four are also all new movies. This is a four new movies top five. I think it's the other thing that made it surprising that this performed so well. It was not an uncompetitive weekend and it tripled its opening weekend. No, but it is that early September, slightly more. fallow feel before the big Oscar movies are coming.

The other three movies are just like three really different offerings, I will say. So number two at the box office is it's a work from a director who would produce one to two new movies a year. And it's in his dramatic vein rather than his comedian. Okay, you do one to two movies a year. Okay, so it's the Tyler Perry. Tyler Perry. But it's not a Medea. But he would have, it's a non-Media.

He would have his weekends that he stake. out. And I'm sure they thought he was going to own this weekend. He was a September guy and a February guy. Yeah, okay. Right. So this is a dramatic one and it's not a Medea. It's not a Medea, but Tyler Perry is in it. Is it? Among the ensemble.

So it's not, I could do bad all by myself? It is not about doing bad all by yourself. Although, burn after reading could be called that. Yeah. All these characters have the capacity to do bad all by themselves. They don't even need anyone else to help them. Tyler Perry is in the ensemble

It's not Denny's little girls It's not good deeds It's neither of those It is And good deeds of course It was sort of like a good Well hunting situation

There's a guy called deeds Who was good Yes It's not why did I get married to No And it's not the first one It's not that This is fun now

It is Ben might have a guess Okay he's in the ensemble Ben I was gonna guess Why did I get married too Nope No no No

Can you tell me who the first billed person is? Will that give it away maybe? Alphrey Woodard. Is it the family that praise? The family that praise. And now, you think this. P-R-A-Y, moving on. No.

Subject closed. What? P-R-E-Y-S? I've never seen it, but I think it's sort of like it's an upstairs downstairs, kind of like there's like a rich family and a poorer family. And it's two different religious families. It's Kathy Bates and Al-Frey Woodard is the two matriarchs. Those are the...

Yeah. Sinalafin, Kadi Strickland, Cole Houser. I bet you he gives a really, really measured performance. Playing a good guy. Right. Rockman Dunbar, who I always enjoy. Taraji P. Henson's in it. Making $17 million, a very sort of standard Tyler Perry non-Madilla opening.

They probably shot it in 0.5 days and made it for $2. They saw it in negative time. Exactly. It was like celery. You gain calories. Somehow, Kathy B. schedule opened up making that movie? I don't know. I don't

know, guys. No, good stuff. Number three at the box office is a movie that is completely forgotten except it has become a catchphrase on the Lonely Island podcast. Righteous kill. Yeah. Yep. Just the, in my opinion, one of the funniest things De Niro and Petino ever did.

Where they were like, it's so cool how we're in Godfather and don't interact, Godfather, two. And then we're in heat and we interact for one scene. What if we did a movie where we're in it together all the time and it suck? What if it was dog shit? It's just bad. Yeah. They were, I bet you they literally just, like, went to a bucket of scripts.

So we're like, just anything with two men in it. Let's get something out of here. Also, to go, like, Coppola, man. Yes? John Avnet. Avonit. Have you seen why just killed? Wait for the Irishman.

Just wait for the Irishman. I don't know anything about this movie. It's like they're both cops in the New York police department. And someone's going out there killing criminals. Yeah. And leaving poems by their minds. Oh, no. But it's like the vigilante

that they're hunting sort of seems to be on the right side of the law in a way. Righteous law. I've never seen it. It's a righteous kill. I've never seen it. I am sure one of them is doing it.

I'm just not sure which. But Andy Sandberg has a running bit since this movie came out of saying righteous kill instead of righteous. Like, oh, yeah, yeah, righteous, righteous kill. And now he's popularized it on the podcast. It's sort of a runner, how they talk about.

he tried to make it happen for 20 years. And now it actually has. And now it actually has. So you didn't see righteous kill? Okay. We're busy seeing burn after reading. I was in, this came out in the heart of marching band season so that I could go see a movie. What was your instrument?

Percussion, of course. I don't, I actually don't, I'm not totally sure that I knew that. I played vibraphone, actually. So I wasn't marching. I was like posted on the 50-yard line. But yeah. But we had like a really robust. bust pit percussion where there were like 20 of us. It was like five marimbo's four vibraphones,

two xylophones. This is so crazy. It's a huge thing in the Midwest. I know. I know. And it's cool to watch. They have people like roll stepping on treadmills in their free time. What was your school called? What was like what was the school? Prospect High School. Cool. I'm sort of doxing myself, I suppose. Oh, well. We can cut that out if you know. No. People know where you want to go nights. Go nights. Go nights. Number 4th of box office, new this week. Not probably the least successful of these four films. Still made $50 million.

It's a remake of a masterpiece from the Golden Age of Hollywood. Is it the women? It's the women. There we go. Can you tell me who played the women in the women? Okay. Can you tell me? It's five women on the post, obviously. How many do I have to film?

One of them is going, phone. Yeah. I remember being one of the most photoshopped posters. Okay. Eva Mendez. Eva Mendez is there. Annette Benning. She's there.

She's on the phone. Deborah Messing? She's going. Meg Ryan? She's going. And the fifth one. There's one I'm forgetting. Oh, it's good.

The fifth one's good. It's not just Kabil, right? No. Give me a hint. Fish Mooney. Well, that's the biggest hint of all. I just wanted to say it. Let me quickly put her name.

in my mouth. Are you ready to sit down at the red table and announce who the fifth lead of the women was? It's Jada Pinkett Smith. A film also has Bet Midler, Candice Bergen, Carrie, Fisher, Cloris, Lytton, Debbie, Mazar, like, Anna Gastire, like, it was kind of like clearly going for that first wives club, like, everybody, come, have fun. And it just, I remember being, like, kind of annoying in that.

It was a development hell movie for, like, 20 years to do an All-Star of the Women remake, and it ended up being made by the... Isn't it the Murphy Brown? Yes, Diane English. Who is, you know, a legend in her own right. But I think by that point, no offense to her, was a little cooked. Offense taken. Yeah, I guess so.

I guess so. A woman is cooked? Like, she should be cooking in the kitchen? You sound like the witch from Hansel and Gretel trying to cook a young woman. In an oven. Is he trying to cook children? A young woman. I love the new take on Hampton.

That was a young woman in STEM that you tried to cook. Gretel had all kinds of aspirations. That's probably how they're going to do it next. Everything is so child and STEM. It'll be so stem-heavy. The woman, number four. Number five at the box office is a film that I think had just done like a one-month run at number one

pretty much all of August. Tropic Thunder? It's Tropic Thunder, which has made it to $102 million. Because that dethroned... Dark Night basically on a one month Dark Night is at number seven Number six is the house bunny Sure

Which is sort of like a solid hit Sleeper hit, yeah Number eight dropping from actually from number one So I think drop out of jump the week before To number eight is the Nicholas Cage film Bangkok Dangerous Quite a poor film and also historically

One of the lowest number ones of all time It was one of those like $4.8 million number ones Or whatever number nine is Trater is that the Don Cheetle movie? Yeah which is not bad right Never seen. Guy Pearce. Yeah.

Based on an idea by Steve Martin. Yes, right. Weirdly. Number 10 at the box office is the remake of death race, which is I think of Paul W.S. Anderson that I haven't seen. Oh, it is a movie that fucking rules. I got to see that one sometime. It is so good.

It's kind of death race, but it's more like twisted metal Mario Kart. Yeah, that sounds fun. Oh, I never saw his from earlier this year. Land of the... I was not a fan of that one. I think he is getting... We got a... take the volume away from him.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like a lot of these kind of mid-budgety genre guys, I'm worried that they're going to get lost in like C.G. Death race is super practical. Part of it is that they build like power-ups onto the death race core. So it has like hitting mushrooms and shit. And Joan Allen plays like the prison warden who's like creating the death race.

You are, you already had me. And then you say Joan Allen is in the main. She has a scene. Can Joan Allen play kind of like a steely boss lady? Is that something that's in her repertoire? David she has a. scene where she's freaking out that like, oh my God, they're beating the system. How is he doing

this? Right? We're supposed to have them under control. And she says like 14 curses in a row that feels like it was just a dare to see if they could get Joan Allen to say it. Yeah, it's incredible. This movie is set in New York in the year 2020. It rules. I wonder if anything else happened. It's also technically, it's also technically a legacy sequel to the original rather than a remake. It's fun. It starts with. with the Frankenstein character, the keratin character from the original. Right. And Kupa Troopa is in it?

Yeah. Cool. Just to close out on Burn After Reading, it did premiere at, it was the opening film of the Venice Film Festival that year. And indeed, it was a solid hit. It's listed budget about $37 million. Okay. But still, obviously, was very successful.

And indeed, as we noted, the reviews were a little mixed and a little heavy on the, it's so sadistic. It's also just coming off of their fucking peak. And I think there's this, like, this back and forth we've talked about many times now of, like, the Cohen's make, like, a serious transcendent film. And then people are like, why are they doing a larky comedy now? There was a little bit of that, you know?

Next up, of course, for us is a serious man. What's that I hear in the distance? Durn, dun, dun, dun, dun, d'n, d'n, d'n. Gates are being locked next week. Mark Maron's on the show next week. Mark Maron's on the show next week. Fran knows this already, but she's excited. I love him so much.

I know. I'm despondent that his show, I can't even really talk about it. Because I was sort of, I was a Marin hater, and I came around. I think a lot of people had a journey like that. Or they're right, they like him, and then they get a little sick of the show, and then they rediscover it. And they're like, you know what? Still fucks.

Yeah. Did you see that he, I don't know if it was on WTF or on one of his, like, behind the paywall sort of like full ramble episodes talked about recording with us and was like it was a long talk it's a long episode those guys go long and then our reddit was like losing their mind and i had to be like guys his standard of long is very different than yours we got a full episode out of him but do not get injury definitely a moment probably around two hours into the show where he literally just says out loud i think we're done it was it was well under two hours it might have been under and i worked to kind of filibuster it over maybe the two hour line

I'm clearing my day. I think it's a really great episode. We get right into it and go deep into the talk. It's the perfect guest for that movie. It was a long time coming, and I'm glad it was really fun to have him on it. I hope we can have him back on it, honestly, because he's got more time, right? Yeah. What else is he going to do?

Exactly. Yeah, other than come on blank check. Exactly. So, yeah, tune in next week for that, Fran. Anything you want to plug? Yeah, Fram, what's up? You work at New York Magazine. Yeah, it's my first time on here in a long time that I've not been begging for a job.

Yes. Because I have one. You're question it. Yeah. You're busy. I'm busy. Go to dinner with me more often. I will once I get to the next month of my life.

You're also getting married. I'm also getting married. A matter of date is ultimately. Congrats. Thank you so much. I'll plug being in love. It's a good plug. Yeah.

My work for New York Magazine and Vulture and Fran magazine. Still going strong. Going strong. Still at it. And I'll plug getting eight hours of sleep, which hopefully I'll return to very soon. It's the best shit in the world. I think it's going to change my life.

It's unbelievable. I'm looking forward to the day where you have to Anna Wintour-style announce your successor at Fran Magazine. Yeah. Who is the future Nepo Baby, the equivalent, the black label,

Nepo Baby like Louis Moll and Candice Bergen's child that you will someday hand over Fran Magazine? That's a great question. Be the nepo baby you want to see in the world, Can we will one into existence now? Yeah. I'm sure they're at a very expensive preschool right now.

But it's got, yeah, it's got to be someone like 35 years younger than me. So maybe someone who doesn't totally exist yet. Maybe if, like, Michael Hanukkah and Sidney-Sweeney want to get on it. Is Hanukkah retired? What's up with him? You're going to do one more? I think he's maybe retired. He's 83.

He's pretty old. Oh. Sorry. I'm not trying to bum you out. No, it's okay. The white ribbon, too. Wait a second. I'm seeing here.

Michael Hanukkah The Ninth Continent Attached to Underrolled The Return of the Likens How great it would it be If he's Hanaka circling

Flash reboot He's just circling it He has a take There really isn't like A Curse project like that anymore Like for so long We had like Crow reboot

Suicide Squad to The Flash Eventually but yeah But is there That's such a good point Right there's not the one Like hey man Don't sign up for it movie

We need a poisoned Chalice to return to Hollywood for like every director to be like Chalice drought Can I figure this out? We actually like work those things out of our system and now we need a little bit A little bit.

But now it'll be like the Candy Land movie or whatever it'll be some fucking board game. Yeah, Michael Hanukas is going to do hungry, hungry hippos. They're so hungry. The hippos are so hungry. Thank you for being here. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate review and subscribe.

Hey, thank you to Ben for us for jumping in. Thank you, Ben. Hasley back in full form next week. Feel better, Ben? Yeah. I hope ice cream tastes good again to you soon. I guess. I'm sure he's honest.

And as always, now we can just focus on writing our memoir. Memoir. I have to pee Griffin. I have to poop. Oh, well, then. I'm just going to get out. Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. executive producer is me, Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas, and our

associate producer is A.J. McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by A.J. McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank CheckPot. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook on Substack.

This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions. Someone just said, here's what I found. I think that was Siri. A ghost? Siri just... That was Siri on the record computer. Siri was about to correct my pronunciations. Go away.

I love you, but no. No, actually, I don't love Siri. Fuck all. You know what, it's true. But, you know, if you say fuck off to Siri, she'll, like, reprimand you. Oh, okay. Like, has that ever happened to you where you, like, accidentally start Siri on your phone and like, oh, fuck off.

And then Siri goes like, I don't appreciate that. And I'm like, Jesus. No, here's what I do. The second I buy a device, Siri off, off, disabled. Have never used Siri once. I don't like her. I don't like her. I don't want to speak to her.

I just have her, like, do my taxes. and stuff. I mostly don't use her. I don't ever do anything. Siri, do my taxes, and I'm like, that's done. I don't like her. Siri is listening to us. What is she doing? Go away, Siri. Siri, disable.

Off. I think she's tricky and I think she's mean, and I want to make it clear. It's not that she's a woman. That's not my problem with her. It's starting to feel like you have a problem with women with soft, soothing voices. I find her overly emotional. I don't like all these questions she asked, and it has nothing to do with her being a woman.

Do you guys know anyone who has Siri as man? I recently heard someone who used their theory and I was like, what the hell? What if it was like Crocodile Dundee? Like, is there a way to make the voice something that I would be amused to hear? Doesn't Amazon elects to do a bunch of that? You can do celebrity voices.

Right. If it was Crack Dundee, I'd turn it on.