Blank Check with Griffin & David - Clifford

Episode Date: May 29, 2017

Our special episode this week: a discussion of 1994’s miscreant child portrayed by a grown man comedy, Clifford. Together, Griffin, David and Producer Ben examine Dinosaur World, sketch comedy movies, Martin Short and Charles Grodin’s careers and Producer Ben’s animated series.

If you even look at me wrong, if you do one thing that I find weird, which is, you know, like your middle name, see? You're doing it right now. Can you act like a human boy for one podcast? That was very enjoyable. Wonderful. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm producer Ben. Now, normally, normally normally as a podcast we talk about directors' filmographies,

right? Yes, correct. You look at these creators, right? Hollywood issues them a blank check. They're like, you did a good job. Now keep doing that. Make us money, right? Yes. They get money for their passion projects. So far, 100% true. Now, sometimes, sometimes these projects

they slay, right? They do well. They slay, okay. And other times, other times these projects are just a big poopy diaper. And can I ask what happens to Can I ask what happens to the check in those instances? In those instances

whereas normally you cash a check Sure. The check bounces, baby. Now I should introduce our hosts here with me today on the podcast. Well, today I think we're guests. You're the host. Oh, that's true. Yeah.

That's true. I'm the guest host. You're my guest. Because this is a Ben's Choice, a.k.a. Produer Ben's Choice, a.k.a. Benducer's Choice. No, a.k.a. a Purdue or Ben's choice, a.k.a. Ben Ducers choice. No, no, no, no. That's good. Thank you.

The tiebreakers choice. And that, of course, is Griffin Newman. Hi, everybody. How's it going? And also with us today, David Sims. That's me. Guys. Yes. And also with us today, David Sims. That's me. Guys, we're going to be talking about one of my favorite movies from growing up. Yeah.

It's a little gem. Maybe y'all have heard of it. I don't know. It's called Clifford. Clifford. It's a comedy cult classic at this point, right? A Paul Flaherty picture. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Flaherty. Yeah. So, yeah, we like to, in between our miniseries, because we usually do full miniseries, focus on a director

going through their career once a month at a time. We just talked about Steven Spielberg. Yes, Bergey. The director of equal quality to Paul Flaherty. Yeah, yeah, I think so.

He's shooting there, at least. And equal box office courses. We like to hand you the reins, Ben. Give you the check. You give us a little palate cleanser, a little sherbet. In between dishes. This time, like the last three Ben's Choices we did, I think all three of those movies came from the first text conversation.

That's true. Where we said, Ben, if we let you pick a movie, what would you pick? And I just threw at you guys basically movies that I had watched over and over again on VHS tapes. And I think the three off the top of the dome were Fletch, The Man Who Knew Too Little, and Under Siege, Too Dark Territory. Which we've covered in glorious detail. Right. And then this time, you were pitching stuff to us, but you were kind of going more highbrow. Yeah, you were trying to be a smarty pants. Well, no, because I've thought like pick films like that you guys basically had expressed to me like pick movies that we really would never watch or it's been a long time or just

very kind of eclectic and weird. Right. Sure. So I thought like Gummo is a film I'm obsessed with. I love. But I think at some point we're going to cover that director. It's not impossible. He's right. He's an auteur at some point we're going to cover that director. It's not impossible. He's an auteur.

And it lines up with your Dirt Boy aesthetic. It's definitely, it fits into the brand. Absolutely. You pitched Bob Dylan, No Direction Home. Which I. Or, no, Don't Look Back. Don't Look Back. Right, sorry, yes.

Which I'm obsessed with. It was that Penny Baker documentary. They shot right around the time that Dylan went electric in London on tour. Super cool. These are movies that people think are works of art. That's the thing. I mean, you're picking movies as our finest film critic. And we said, no, pick what's a movie.

Give us another movie you used to watch on VHS all the time growing up. And I was like, fine. All right. Well, I like that Clifford movie. Yes. Don't pick a Poet Laureate movie. Pick a Dirt Bike Benny movie. And then Clifford, immediately I said yes.

And David, you went, what is this? Now, I had heard of Clifford. Sure. Obviously. Right. One of my former roommate, Andy, his family's dog was called Clifford, named after the Clifford, the movie Clifford. Not after Clifford the Big Red Dog.

That's a little muddled. A little strange. Yeah. And I knew that it was like some Martin Short vehicle and like that was kind of what I knew. I'd never seen it. Yeah. I knew it was a cult movie.

Like I knew it would have been a bomb and then like people liked it. I'll give my quick background and then Ben you can take the reins again. I'd never seen this movie in full. I would watch pieces of it on TV a lot. It would just be a movie that was on. And every time I was on, I would say to my dad, like, what's this movie about?

And he was like, Martin Short plays a boy. Martin Short plays a 10-year-old. And I was like, why? And he was like, I don't know. That's the joke of the movie. Right. And I could never, as a very, I was a very literal child. I could never get over that.

It was also like this movie came out within like a couple years of Jack. A couple years earlier. Well, it came out a couple years earlier. Yeah. It was made many years earlier. But yes. Yes. But like that movie.

Jack is 96, I think. Right. Two years later. That movie goes so far out of its way to be like, here's why. Well, yeah. A boy looks like Robin Williams. And Clifford is just like, you just have to accept that this is a grown man playing a 10-year-old. Yeah.

Jack's also super maudlin. It's like about, you know, mortality or whatever. This is a horror film. Yes. I don't know that there's any other way, right? Any other genre it belongs to more than horror. Sure. I would say it's horror first, comedy second.

I'll say this. Yeah. I've been on the record saying this. I've said it before. I'll say it again. Jack is my number one least favorite movie of all time. I saw Jack whenever it came out. Yeah.

I didn't like it, and I was only like 10 years old, so that really must have sucked. I don't remember much about it. Is Bill Cosby in it? Correct. He like farts. A lot. I didn't remember much about it. Is Bill Cosby in it? Correct. He like farts. A lot. I didn't like it.

Here's the thing. That movie was already bad, and it's only gotten worse with times and reveals about its cast members. It's like impossible to watch now. I did an episode on Jack for the Masterpiece Theater podcast. Oh, sure. Yeah, which I'm going to be on probably around when this posts, actually movie are you talking about my favorite movie i'm doing a episode on cars 3 i'm trying to get to the five timers club on masterpiece shout out to josh view yep uh ben

take them rains all right well so i definitely watched this movie a ton as a kid. This was like a film where if I went to the shore annually with my family I was always renting this fucker. If it was on TV I feel like this was a thing I very much watched in the summer. I was sitting around in the living room in the air conditioning

and this was on TV. I'd definitely watch it with the commercials and everything. I also should give a little context, because I know we love context in this podcast. I was a little bit of a bad kid, I guess. Like a little bit of a little shit.

So I really loved Clifford's character because I related to it. I would talk to adults and I would say their first name because I thought that was hilarious. What a weirdo. I would be like Mary Ann to my friend's mother and she would be like, Ben, don't call me by my first name. Well, I mean, that's, you know, your nicknames represent the different sides of your personality, much like Split. It's, you know, your nicknames represent the different sides of your personality, much like Split.

And Dirt Bike Benny is sort of the nickname we've used to represent your childhood years, which you've alluded to being a stinker, doing prank phone calls, having a slingshot, riding a dirt bike. So the second you said you love this movie, not just because it is a film that very much, like, died in theaters and has acquired a strange life on cable and vhs but also because clifford immediately makes sense as as an analog for for ben i guess so yeah a little bit for the for little ben what i imagine ben's childhood being like right a little stinker i definitely was a little stinker but like clifford i guess it's like Clifford is presenting himself as a little stinker, but he's worse. He is. Clifford's a disturbing individual.

He's a sociopath. That's the best way to put it. And here's the interesting counterpoint movie for me, okay? Sure. So this movie, as you've been alluding to, was shot much earlier by Orion, which then crumbled and sat on a shelf for a while. and set in a shelf for a while. It was produced by Orion Pictures, which was a sort of successor to United Artists that made lots of good movies,

like The Silence of the Lambs and fucking Dances with Wolves, all kinds of cool... Pan Her Sisters. Made a lot of very successful bad movies, too. They were mostly known for trash, but they made some interesting stuff as well. But they went under...

It was supposed to come out in 91. Okay. Came out in 94 after complicated bankruptcy. Because then MGM eventually gets the Orion library. Right. And then it came out. It was a

colossal bomb. It was a huge financial disaster. Critically reviled? It was greeted with disgusted reviews. And honestly, it was kind of the end of Martin Short's career as a movie star, I would say. Like, not so much of a Martin Short above the title anymore. More like sprinkling him in. Yeah, I was looking at his NDB.

There's one after this where he's kind of the guy, and I forget which one it is. Maybe 97? Oh, I think A Simple Wish is his last, like... Oh, boy. Yes. Honestly, that is a Mara wilson picture he is he's the second lead but it is it is her i mean she was she was the poster star let me do a glick film he did but that was a that was a small film that was like an independent release but when was it

what's it called that no yeah i mean like this really glick and l La Wood? Well, I mean, let's talk about Martin Short. Oh, that's way later. But yes, yes. After this, he sort of becomes a supporting player. Sure. He's not even above the title anymore. And he's like a scene stealer. And Martin Short is this example. Which he had already been doing. Right.

He was in The Father of the Brides and all that. Right. Someone tweeted the other day something. And when I say the other day, we're recording this 17 years in advance. So, you know, whatever. But they were like parodying our show and they were like tweeting a fake dialogue between us. Do you remember this? No. The line they attributed to me was like, yeah, Hollywood never really figured out how to use that guy because apparently I'm really into that narrative. Sure, sure, sure. Which I accept fully.

Right. That's one of your tropes. Right. What was mine? I'm trying to remember now. But Martin Short is a very key example of that. Of someone where no one ever questioned his talent. Yes. He was always beloved culturally, but he never...

There was that Vandy Fair profile of him five years ago where they said there are few guys who have reached the same level of comedy legend who never were the star of their own TV show and never were the star of a successful movie. He's never been particularly successful. No. Maya and Marty last year or whatever. Anytime he's in it and he's like, it's me, Martin Short, doing the thing you guys love. And I'm always like, we do love it, I guess, but you don't have any cultural touchstone to go to exactly.

No. I mean, his most beloved movie is Three Amigos. Yes. Which at its time was a disappointment. Yeah. It wasn't a flop, but it was expensive. It was hugely hyped. It was Lorne Michaels' post-SNL move,

and people were like, oh, it's a double. Right. And now I think it's grown in esteem to a triple or a home run. But I mean, that's not even just his. No. Steve Martin, Chevy Chase, and Martin Short. Yeah. And then most of his movies, other than that, are two-handers.

Oh, yeah. Totally. You have Innerspace. You have Captain Ron. You know? He did an Anetto Tool movie, right? An Anetto Tool movie? I think he did an Anetto Tool picture.

He did that Nick Nolte movie He did a movie with Danny Glover Called Pure Luck Right I think Three Fugitives Is that what's called Two Fugitives Three Fugitives

With Nick Nolte Correct And James Earl Jones Yeah it was a lot of like Pairing him with another actor To see if it worked And it never like Totally

But it never like Didn't work No It crossed my heart As the Annetto Tool movie He also. And then, yeah, you know, and then I think Father of the Bride. Right.

For kids like me. Yeah. Who were too young for SCTV. Yeah. And SNL, like his 80s TV, you know, legendary stuff. Yeah. That was like, oh, right. Martin Short.

Brilliant. I love him. He's so funny as Frank. It's like, it's not even a textured performance, let's say, but it's a very big supporting performance. A very big supporting performance, but it gets to this thing which is like, Martin Short might actually be too big for most projects.

He's a big actor. He's a big actor. He's Dana Carvey-esque. Yes. I would say Dana Carvey is a good successor to Martin Short in the SNL spectrum. Another guy who never really made sense in movies. No, and certainly not as leading men because they always were on.

It was always so heightened. So on. But there's something very endearing about Martin Short, even when a lot of the time... He was good at inherent vice. Really good. And there's the story where he was at at the New York Film Critics screening and someone at the Q&A was like, where have you been? And then everyone applauded and they were like, we love you, Marty.

Welcome back. And it's like, dude, didn't stop acting. He's been here for 10 years. No, he's around. You know, and he'll host SNL once in a while. He'll drop in to like any, you know, he's so funny in Arrested Development. I was just going to say, he's one of the strangest guest performances on that show. Swoop me, dragon!

He kind of works best as a disruptive force in a project. If you give him too much, the whole project becomes insane. You know, I don't think he's ever been bad in anything. But sometimes if a project has to bend to his level, the whole reality gets warped. We agree. But he's never really had a stink on him, which is interesting. It's true, even though he, like we say, is not really what I would consider successful. But it doesn't matter.

But I feel like everyone has this nostalgia for him. Yeah, well, you worked with him. Yeah, can I talk about this a little bit? Yeah. So we've invoked this a lot, but I was fired from the sitcom Mulaney. On which he was, I guess, he kind of was occupying the Alec Baldwin role or whatever. Like, you know, the kind of like big star role. Right.

And he's very big on the show. Sure. I liked Mulaney. I didn't think it totally knew what to do with him sometimes, but he was pretty funny on it. And there's a couple episodes that are really good where he does funny stuff. Like Power Moves is a good episode. I couldn't watch it because it was like seeing my family hang out

with someone else. Quick breeze by. The pilot script for Millennia is still the funniest script I've ever read. We shot that for NBC with some interference, but I think largely made it through. Sure. that remodeled the whole show. My character was written out at their insistence, and all the other cast members stayed on, but the characters were very warped from what the original conception was. Uh, yeah.

It's clear that Fox were like, Mulaney, your stand-up's funny. The show should be like your stand-up bits. Why doesn't it we don't do that? And also, why is there a skinny guy? You're a skinny guy. Get rid of the other skinny guy. We only need one skinny guy. So get rid of him. What there a skinny guy? You're a skinny guy. Get rid of the other skinny guy. We only need one skinny guy.

Yeah. So get rid of him. What about a fat guy? He could be really fat. Well, I'm not going to say anything on Mike, but what an interesting conversation you just hypothetically had. And it's, I mean, it's when the pilot, because Mulaney did kind of settle down and figure itself out, but the pilot, the Fox pilot, is truly, like, obviously written by a studio head.

Essentially just saying, because it has all these scenes that are just adapted from Mulaney's stand-up bits. Yeah. And it's clear that he was just like, I love that bit. That should be in the show. Like, it's all wrong. Right. Whereas his original concept of the show was not that at all. Yeah.

Him being a stand-up was a side part and they didn't adapt his bits in the same sort of way so literally. The only two people I know who watched who I know personally

who watched every episode of Mulaney while it was airing were you and my father. And you were writing pieces defending it. My father would just call me every Monday

and go, Griff, that show's not working. I wrote one piece defending it. I just thought that it had this kind of sick heart to it that I was sort of intrigued by. Sure, it was just the two men I love in my life were watching the thing that destroyed me.

But I got to work with him for like two weeks. Sure. Which was... Exciting. I mean, so far beyond... Saying it's a highlight of my career is an understatement. Uh, my time working on it was like kind of a dream before it,

uh, uh, rose up like, uh, the dark Phoenix and killed me. I will say, uh, bar none.

He is the most, uh, technically precise actor I have ever worked with. Interesting. And the most fascinating process to observe. The idea was they set him up to be more like how Jack Donaghy was in the first season of 30 Rock, where they weren't sure how on board Alec Baldwin was. When 30 Rock started, he had in his contract that he only had to be in half the episodes

of the season. And they thought he'd be more of a floating sometimes character. And so it was like, once an episode, you'll have a big scene where Martin Short's character, who is a game show host and a washed up comedian, has Mulaney as his personal assistant. Mulaney goes over to his mansion

to help him write jokes. And it would be like, here's your little Marty Short in the middle of every episode. Right. And so my character never interacted with him, but it was a multi-camera show.

Right. And so you'd rehearse every day like it was a play. So it felt like being in a high school play where you'd hang out with the whole cast all the time and he would come in he had in his contract that his stuff was up first every morning and we'd all get there even though we didn't need to just watch it happen we wouldn't sit in our dressing room and seaton smith past guests of the show and i would sit there and just watch and be like this is fucking incredible and in sitcoms like that they rewrite

extensively every day there's a new draft and he had the biggest binder i've ever seen binders full of women uh no no he had a huge huge binder and he had every single draft in there because his notes were so thorough on every page like the most notes i've ever seen because he just has a thousand comedic ideas for every line. Sure. And he'd go like, John, what if I was eating pudding in the scene? And you're like, what? Okay, Martin. Sure. It's okay, right?

And then you go like, I know a guy who was a businessman and I'd go meet up with him and he'd always just be eating pudding and it would play against all the points he was making. And then he'd be like, I don't know, let's see what it looks like. He'd take out a cup of pudding and it would be like, that's the best pudding eating I've ever seen. He knew how to put just enough in his mouth that it would make his voice funny, but you could still hear it. I love you, but we have to stop.

We have to talk about the damn movie. He was incredible and I've been sort of like, I've had a renewed appreciation for his abilities since that show, which was like four or five years ago now. Yeah, wow. Yeah. Time has passed. Time has passed. Time has passed.

Times is hard, Sweeney. But yeah, we all would sit there on set and go like, God, he's going to win so many Emmys for this. Like we sat there and we're like, this is the comeback. Look. This is the one. Mulaney on NBC, it's an all-time what if. I'm not trying to throw this under bus.

I'm just saying there was this thing where we were all sitting there and we were like, he's due for the thing where he just... And he still is. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what he wants to do with himself. I don't know. I don't know what this is.

I don't know what the fuck Clifford is. Well, directed by Paul Flaherty, who is an SCTV guy. So he came up on SCTV, which is a famous Canadian sketch show from the late 70s, early 80s. John Candy, John Flaherty, who is an SCTV guy. So he came up on SCTV, which is a famous Canadian sketch show from the late 70s and early 80s. John Candy, John Flaherty. Right, directed Who is Harry Crumb with John Candy. Oh, you're talking about this guy. Paul Flaherty. Yeah, sorry.

Who is Harry Crumb is a weird movie. I don't like that movie. I don't either. I watched it when I was a teenager and it grossed me out. I didn't like it. This is an SCTV guy. This was trying to translate a dude who played best in sketch into being a movie star. And this is very much a sketch comedy movie in its sort of tone and aesthetic.

I mean this now, so we all know John Mulaney worships, uh, Martin short and one of John Mulaney's greatest and most unheralded SNL sketches is that one where Fredred armisen plays like a really uh big kid like you know he's at like the dinner table he's like oh please you remember this riley i've never gotten a sketch i know this sketch has a clifford like following exactly that sketch is obviously like a martin scorch a martin short sketch for sctv like that's it's

got that vibe to it right and that's what this is like. Except it's a 95 minute movie or whatever. Can I quickly throw out a what if alternate history? What do you think would have happened if Martin Short doubled down on Ed Grimley and made it his Pee Wee Herman? Yeah, I don't know.

The thing about Pee Wee Herman is it's a really good movie. And it's like, if you make a really good movie and or a really interesting TV show, like, great. Yeah. It's not the character that is going to carry you through. You do need like some artistry around it. Well, and this movie to me is very much like of a piece with the 90s trend of Hollywood trying to figure out how you make a Tim Burton movie without Tim Burton. Yeah.

Like, after Pee Wee and Beetlejuice, those one-two punches of, like, oh, comedies that are, like, playful from a filmmaking standpoint... Yeah. ...and are this kind of, like, impressionistic and have this many, like, weird visual influences... Sure.

...and odd tone management... That began in 2050. Right. They just keep on trying to make a Tim Burton movie without him and Tim Burton also then fails to ever make a movie like that ever again. It's true. But there's that one pocket where like Beetlejuice and

Pee-wee's Big Adventure are these weird dead end movies that no one's been able to replicate. Where you just go like, man, why couldn't all comedies be as adventurous? It's hard. It's hard. People who wrote this movie never wrote a movie again. Crazy. Never before or again. I don't know who they are.

So is this a style of comedy that has really just fallen out of favor, would you guys say? But I feel like people try to make it once in a while. I mean, The Master of Disguise is a different movie from this kind of movie. But movies where it's like, why don't I just do bits? That can't be a movie? Like, you know,

like, bit? Like, some bits for you? But I think the added elements are like really dark, dark worldview soul kind of thing. This movie's sick. Right. That's not, that is atypical, I would say. But I think that's... Well, Pee-wee's, yeah.

Right, I think that's people getting the recipe wrong from Pee-wee. Like, Pee-wee's dark, but not in a way that makes you uncomfortable. No, exactly. Although, you know, and that's part of Paul Reubens' skill with that character is that he walks the line better than he should. I think DeVito was trying to make these kinds of movies for a while. Cabin Boy is certainly a movie like this. Death to Smoochie.

Death to Smoochie, right. There's a wave of movies like this that just have the oddball visual elements, a really dark heart, you know, a kind of gopher broke comedic style.

Sure. No performance can be too big. Yes. But I can't think of anything in the last 10 years that comes to mind. No, I think you had too many high-profile flops. The movies in this style that flopped didn't just flop, but were hated.

All right, but let's talk about this movie. Let's talk about this movie. Ben, guide us through Cliff. Ben, I wanted to say something to you. Yes, sir. Because you, the minute I started watching this movie, probably 15 minutes, and I texted both of you just being like, wait, what the fuck is this movie? Yeah, you were flipping out.

You replied with something that many people, both online and that I know, reply with when they are confronted with the name of this movie, which is, I want to say Mason? Why is that line so crucial to all of you? I don't know. It makes me laugh so hard. The setup is like, well, we'll get to that part. I'm obsessed with that line. What is it? Why?

You look at like the Letterboxd page. It's like five reviews that are like, I want to say Mason. And this is a great, I think this is a great time to give a shout out to the best show. Okay. To Tom Sharper. Sure, sure. Because I'm a big fan of that radio show and now that podcast. Grew up listening to that guy.

And there was a period of time a few years back where him and Worcester were just doing bits where they constantly referenced this movie and specifically that line. So I think there might be some... Maybe that's why. There might be some of that

kind of going on. Interesting. Sure. But yeah, I just also, that was just a memorable line to me where like me and my friends, you know, like my buddy Garrett, who also has a similar kind of taste in movies, him and I would constantly just quote that at each other. I don't get it. I feel like. Have you seen this before?

Not all the way through. I just seen it in pieces on cable. I mean, I probably had seen the whole movie out of order. I'd seen it like you see the Cloverfield monster in Cloverfield. Yeah, no, I understand. Like I could put it together in my mind's eye. Past guest Morgan Evans. Maybe he's the only one who did this,

but I feel like he always does this. Invokes the line that you did at the beginning, Ben. Because I think that's kind of like, for me, the turnkey of the entire movie is Charles Grodin just being like, act like a normal human. Right. Because the whole point of this movie is like, wait, it's not just that he's evil. It's not that he's a shithead. It's like, what the fuck is he and also why is he

played by a grown man? Like, the movie calls itself out and goes like, this doesn't make any sense. What is this creature? The movie begins in the year 2050. Well, wait, let Ben guide us. Sure. Ben, when does the movie? The movie begins in the year 2050. Well, wait, let Ben guide us. Sure.

Ben, when does the movie begin? It begins in the year 2050. Oh, wow. And Martin Short's an old man. He's like in some future... He's like a Jesuit or whatever. Yeah, future priest.

Like, he's a future priest. I think it's a school, right? It's like a Catholic boarding school or something. Oh, but even that, before that, the movie opens

with those weird paintings. It goes like, this is the story of a boy's adventure spirit or whatever. That's true. And then I was like, okay, all right. I was into this. It's like a fable. The never-ending story or something. Which I think is one of the mistakes this movie makes.

But carry on. Cool. And so you basically, just to kind of get us through it, Martin Short is like mentoring this like sort of ridiculous. A bad boy. Bad boy kid who apparently blew up the gymnasium. Played by Ben Savage of Boy Meets World. Oh, that was Ben Savage.

Little Corey Matthews. Shit. And he's a little stinker. He's a stinker. And he's like, I was once a stinker too. Right. But there's also a couple weird bits like he pretends to have a heart attack and then it's like a scheme to get Ben Savage to come near him.

Or the suitcase and then the child fall on top of him. That's funny. That is funny. The basketball hits him on the head, then a suitcase, and then the child. That's funny. There are a few actors who love- He chokes on a mint? Yes. There are a few actors who love... He chokes on a mint? Yes.

There are a few actors who love physical business more than Martin Short. And he's good at it. And he's got a bag of like 10 moves he loves doing and you see him try to incorporate them into anything he does. And it's like even though you've seen it before, him choking is always funny. Him falling is always funny. Him dancing is always funny. Like he dances the same way in Clifford that Ed Grimley dances. He kind of did the original dab.

Do you realize that? He does the move where he, like, puts his arm in front of his face. Okay. He does that in all his movies. All right. I think you picked up on this. Very woke. He's the dab of daddy.

Wait, what? Very woke. Very intersectional. Oh, boy. Am I using the language right? No. Okay. Great. Okay. Great.

Okay. So what is all established, though, in this kind of flashback, or rather before the flashback. Right. He's like, let me tell you about when I was a bad kid. Oh, no. Go ahead. Right. It's a story in a story.

Right. So then it's like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And so you know that he's going to reform and become a Catholic missionary or priest or whatever. Which I love because I can imagine the screenwriters sitting there and they're like, wait a second. If we frame the movie as a reformed Clifford telling about his evil ways, then the audience will be on board with him if they know he turns out good eventually. I do think that is important to that, sort of. Because, yeah, otherwise I think you'd just be watching the movie and be like, is it just about a demon seed? That's what the whole movie is? And is he just going to die at the end?

That's kind of what you want to happen, right? Right. You want him to fall into the La Brea Tar Pits or something. Right. But here's the interesting counterpoint movie. This movie, I guess, was made at a very similar time to Problem Child. Yeah, sure. I can look that up for you.

Problem Child is, like, the version of this movie that doesn't make you uncomfortable, right? That is just, like, goofy, like, hijinks. It was made pretty much, yeah. Problem Child is 1990 in this movie. Supposed to come out around then. That becomes successful. They make a bunch of sequels. They do an animated series.

Everyone hates this movie. It's because in Problem Child, it feels like the kid's just kind of guileless and doesn't know what he's doing, but causes damage. Another small point. In Problem Child, the kid's played by a kid. Correct. He's a little kid. Correct.

A little kid actor. Yes. Not Martin Short, and everyone near him is standing on a box. Yes. Yes. And I also think in Problem Child, you feel bad for John Ritter.

Sure. And in this, Charles Grodin is playing as curmudgeonly as he ever has. Yeah. This is a performance that Grodin, I think, then modulates for Beethoven. Yes. In Beethoven, he adds some dad into it, so you're a little more on his side. Yeah.

In this, he's kind of an asshole. Oh, he's definitely an asshole. And even though the beginning of the movie is getting you on his side, because when he's telling the story- From the very beginning, he can't even lie asshole. And, like, even though the beginning of the movie is, like, getting you on his side. Because, I mean, when he's telling the story. Well, the Mason line, from the very beginning, he can't even lie convincing. Well, right. But the beginning of the story is, like, you know, blah. What's Charles Gordon's character's name?

Jesus. Martin. Yes. Martin, like, he wanted to do two things. He wanted to build a public transit system for Los Angeles. Right. That sounds like a nice idea. It'd be great.

We've been waiting for one for centuries. Sure, like a really functional one. Great. And he wanted to marry Mary Steenburgen. And you're like, okay, this is going to be a guy who's nice. Oh, he's a nice guy. And we'll see him deteriorate. Right, right.

And then from the very first scene when he shows her the house, Mary Steenburgen's like, fuck you. You're an asshole. I've known it all along. Right. He buys like kind of a crappy minimalist one bedroom. Yeah. He didn't even talk to her.

Yeah. It's a weird move, bedroom. Yeah. He didn't even talk to her. Yeah. It's a weird move actually. That's a really weird move. And she's like, you clearly don't want to have children. You're a self-involved guy. I don't want to marry. You know, I don't want to be with you anymore. He's like, I love kids.

What about my nephew? I want to say Mason. I want to say Mason. Well, hold on. Give it, you know, it's due. Okay. All right. Like the setup is more, she's like, come on.

No, I love kids. I got a nephew. My nephew uh and she's like what's his name he's like ah i want to say mason it is funny it is funny it's just it's just weird that it became it's just a weird aside little like not even a bit but it just damn it really resonates but butin, who was known as like Hollywood's greatest crank, right? Was like a dude who came out of like Meisner, you know? Was contemporaries with Gene Wilder. Everyone

thought he was going to be like the leading man and he did a lot of cult comedies that never really crossed over, like Heartbreak Kid and stuff. Well, he did Midnight Run. Well, that was, I think, that's the moment. But he already had been around for a long time at that point. Oh, he's been around forever at that point. He's much older than he looks,

because he's like 60 in this movie. Yeah, he's almost, he's close, he's in his 50s. He always looked younger. Folks out there should watch his appearances on the Johnny Carson show. Right. He's so fucking good. That's the big thing. He would go on talk shows and he would act like he hated it, and that really elevated him. And Midnight Run, which we will

inarguably cover at some point in this podcast. And he's in Ishtar, your favorite. Which I love him in. And then he's in the Beethoven movies and suddenly the kids are like, love this grumpy guy! Give me him! And he does a couple of those and then he retires for like 20 years. Pretty much. I mean, Clifford

is his last screen appearance and that's only because it got released late. Like, Dave is really his last screen appearance. Which he's so good in, Dave. Great in, Dave. And then he becomes really into, like, civil rights and, like, trials. Like, mistrials. Correcting mistrials. Do you know about

this? I don't, but we can't get into it. He hosted like a CNN show for a while and he started acting again in the last couple of years. Like, Louis and While We're Young and stuff. Hey, the comedian. The comedian. He's not great in it. But Midnight Run, De Niro signs on,

and they wanted a huge star next to him, and they wanted like Robin Williams. They wanted to gender flip it and make it Cher. Like there were all these weird ideas, and De Niro held his ground, and he was like, this movie works if it's Charles Groton.

And that's the movie where he finds the right balance of being an asshole and being kind of lovable. And it's like this movie empowered by Midnight Run and getting this like second lease on his career.

He's like, oh, people love it when I'm an asshole and just plays so unlikable the entire film. Right. Which is amazing to watch comedically,

but it also means you're watching a movie with like, it is like Alien vs. Predator it's like whoever wins we lose I'm rooting for Grodin I'm sorry I'm rooting for Grodin I want him to kill this kid

in the same way that I'm rooting for the Predator I want him to kill this kid and get away with it that's what I want to happen I think it's because I want him to build that transit system and it's weird that the movie kind build that transit system. And it's weird that the movie kind of skims past

that at the end. The movie skims past everything at the end. We also know it's never going to happen. It's set in 2050. It could predict any future. No one's going like, man, took the bus here. I don't know. In the future, they could be on some

train and he could be like, well, you know, and then one day he built this train that we now use or whatever. Sure, fair deuce. The introduction of Clifford is him on the plane with his parents. Richard Kind and Jennifer Savage

are his parents. They're on the plane. And they are just worn down. Richard Kind is so great. They hate this child. They hate him. Richard Kind, who is the best at playing a weary... How do you put it? Just broken. Yeah, just a broken man. I remember when he showed up in Kimmy Schmidt recently

as the teacher who runs the rubber room or whatever. He's like a human puddle. Perfectly put. Right? He was the guest on the first Oh Hello I went to, and he was the guest on the first Oh Hello I went to and he was a fabulous guest

I can't even imagine he's exactly who you want to see interviewed by exactly it was when it was when it was off Broadway

he was sitting in front of me which I did not realize it was but every time someone he laughed he went like ah ah ah

he has like a very pronounced laugh and I was like who is this guy and then when they did the thing is like and now our guest richard kite he just stood up and got on stage with him he was very funny very into it and then mulaney was like also your best friend is george clooney right which he is yeah and he was like yeah that's the one thing i can't talk about and it was really it was an interesting he was nice about it but it was like no go like i'll

talk about anything else yeah it was weird it is it. Like, I'll talk about anything else. Yeah. It was weird. It is. It's so weird that he's best friends with Rick Clooney. They're like best buds. But from back when Clooney was like a weirdo who lived by the pool and had a pet pig. They were both just like 80s, like workaday sitcom actors. I saw him in an audition waiting room once and he ran into some other like, you know,

like a New York character actor. And I was eavesdropping on their conversation and richard kind talking about his career sounded like a richard kind character talking about it i don't know i mean they just won't pick up my calls i mean he's got two scenes ben like how much of the movie he's he's not in much of the movie it's just the scene on the plane and the scene off the plane yeah and he fades like bing bong he's good as bing bong just the scene on the plane and the scene off the plane. Yeah, and he fades like Bing Bong. He's good as Bing Bong. So they're on the plane. Clifford's being a fucking pain in the ass. He's got a toy

dinosaur. He's like launching it using the fucking table on the back of the fold-out table. What am I saying? And then he realizes they're flying over dinosaur land. He's obsessed with dinosaur land, right?

And he will pretty much stop at nothing to get there. That's his holy grails. He just wants to go to this theme park. And so he decides he's going to go see the pilot, really to just sabotage the flight, to force them to land in Los Angeles, which is where dino land is. Because they're trying to get to Hawaii

where the dad has to speak at a conference. Yeah, it's some business thing. Yeah, I mean, more or less though, it's just like he, in the um, I wanted to say pilot area. Cockpit. Yeah. Got it. He pushes some button, they're forced to land. Basically, Richard

Kind calls his, like, sort of, his brother he doesn't talk to very often who lives in Los Angeles and gets him to take care of Clifford while they're in Hawaii on the business trip. And oh what good timing because Grodin has just gotten in the fight with

Mary Steenburgen and this is a great time to prove to her that he does love kids. Yeah it's one of those annoying movie contrivances. It's stupid. This guy who hasn't seen his nephew for 10 years invokes him an hour before he gets the phone call.

So Clifford almost crashes a plane because he wants to go to the dinosaur land. Sure. Clifford is played by Martin Short. He's a 10 year old boy.

Played by like a 38 year old man. Yeah. Actually that's a good call. How old was Martin Short? He's so beautiful. Born in 1950 so he would have been close to 40 years old when he shot this movie. Probably 40.

He reads 10. No, no, no. I'm sorry. I'm doing my math wrong. No, 30 years old. Okay, that's a little more. I mean, what am I talking about? It's still a 30-year-old playing a 10-year-old.

Right, right. So they do it basically just by having him be short. He is very tiny. He's a small man anyway. He's L-thin. I mean, he's not just short, but he's physically.. He is very tiny. He's a small man anyway. He's L thin. I mean, he's not just short, but he's like physically. Yeah, he's thin. He's built like me.

I think a lot of the scenes that just had actors stand on boxes. I think they cast a lot of tall actors too. Sure. I am assuming in some scenes, Martin Short's basically just on his knees just to, you know, reinforce it. It weirdly, the perspective thing weirdly works. Yeah, it does. The only time it seems weird

is there's some close-ups of his face and he has a man's face. Yes. Like, it's not like you can see stubble exactly, but you can see he has a shaved face. He works better in wide shots. Yeah. But they even, like, they have a lot of full body shots.

I mean, they, I think to the movie's advantage, they don't beat themselves up about keeping him at the same height. So if they want to do a shot of him walking, and you can see everyone's feet, they try to cast tall actors around him, and they just let him be that size. And if they're sitting, he does a lot of stuff

too where he holds his hands closer to his chest. Yeah, he's wearing school uniform with short pants, right? He's wearing like a little suit and tie. Yes. Oh, fucking God. Let me see if I can recall. He kind of dresses like a little businessman.

He had a really good story he told on set about he had to get his legs waxed every day. For that movie? For Clifford. I might recall it by the end of this episode, but it was a story about every day he had to go in the hair and makeup shop, and this woman had to wax his legs. Interesting. Yeah. So Ben. It had to do with his genitals, but I forget what it was.

Yeah. Great. He's united with Charles Grodin, with Martin, his uncle. I think he's sort of like you see right away that he's already sort of starting to manipulate, right? And like I think asked him to go to Dinosaur Land, right? They can't because he has to basically go. Charles has to go bring him over to the girlfriend's house to show off the kids.

There's always something that needs to happen. Right, yeah. It's never really that important or clear. It's just sort of like everything keeps getting in the way of going to Dinosaur Land. But have we established that Grodin was sort of, like, worked on Dinosaur Land? Yeah, he was like the architect of Dinosaur Land.

Oh, true right he built Larry the scary rex right at the start it seems like this is gonna be fine cause he like picks him up and he's like hey you know and he's like do you what do I want to go to dinosaur land he's like I know dinosaur land I worked on dinosaur land I can definitely take you no argument there it's fourth in the queue

so here's the question yeah if the movie if he just took him to dinosaur land right like immediately right sure would So here's the question. Yeah. If the movie, if he just took him to Dinosaur Land. Right. Like immediately. Sure. Would Clifford then behave normally or would there be some new thing? I mean, this is the great question.

Because the whole point of the movie is he just says, and he is consistent basically. Yeah. He just wants to go to Dinosaur Land and he becomes enraged because he believes that Charles Gordon is like, you know, ignoring this to like spend time with his girlfriend's family and do things like that. Also, he's in love with the girlfriend. Then he's also in love with a girlfriend, which is very distressing and I don't like it. But he's not trying to prevent, he's not fully trying to prevent groden and the girlfriend from getting married the girlfriend played by academy award winner mary steenburgen in a 100 thankless role not a great

role kind of a role that too often you see in these kinds of movies which essentially just like the object of the movie for the guy is that he wants to marry the girl and so he is humiliated or embarrassed in various ways and she's like oh i't believe it. And then at the end she's like, I forgive you. Like, for no reason or whatever. And the conflict is that two other people also want to marry her. Sure. A very virile Dabney Coleman is trying to fuck her. And Clifford has this weird obsession with her.

The great Dabney Coleman. The great. A TV actor, largely, but a good character actor in movies. Sure. Famously bald. Right. Wearing a wig. Yes. And a beard. actor in movies. Sure. Famously bald. Right. Wearing a wig. Yes.

And a beard. And a beard. And the early plot point in the movie is that they don't know if he's wearing a wig or not. They say he's got one of the best rugs in town. Which I'm a little annoyed about because it's like, it's Dabney Coleman. The first thing you know about Dabney Coleman

is that he's bald. That is the most famous thing about Dabney Coleman. Yes. Another thing is that Grodin famously a rug wearer. Yeah. Well he's got he's got that that always got that sort of fine doll hair. Right. Yeah.

He loses his hair early but still keeps a useful face and has this weird doll rug that he wears for like 20 years of his career before he retires and when he comes out of retirement everyone's like whoa Charles Grodin aged a lot and it was like no he was just hiding his age for a long time. Right. Yeah. Yeah, he's weirdly old. But he's always got

weird Kendall hair. His hair doesn't move properly. No, it doesn't. And in Midnight Run where he has to get dirty, there's just like a second wig that's tussled. Right.

It's like designed to look messy, but it doesn't look human either. I think the question of would Clifford be a good boy if he just got to go to Dinosaur Land, how one answers that says a lot about your worldview. I mean, it's a very existential question. Is it just the thing where it's like he just, all he seems to care about, he does, you're right, he does of course get sexually obsessed with Mary Steenburgen.

But he also wants to be the ring boy. Like he's not trying to stand in the way of the marriage because if they got married, he would also gain by getting to be the ring bearer. Right. But he's got this pet dinosaur called Stefan that he constantly addresses. Loves it.

Constantly holding it. And then he blames all the bad things on. Right. He wants to go to Dinosaur World. Okay. Just fucking take him to Dinosaur World right away. And then maybe everyone's happy. But is the film saying, like, do not get in the way of nature?

Like, things must play out as they must? Or is it saying, is he an agent of chaos? No, I see it differently. I see it as what's happening is Clifford's just using his uncle, and his uncle is just using Clifford. So they're both competing to take advantage of each other. Right, right. And that's a bad situation.

Totally. It's terrible. But the thing is, Clifford's, Martin, Clifford's uncle, is a recognizable person where it's like, he's a flawed guy. He kind of, you know, can be a bit of an asshole. He's unlikable. He's not very likable, but he's all right.

He's a functional human being who can hold a conversation with someone or whatever. It's a very broad performance of a recognizable human. Whereas Clifford is a broad performance of a robot. Or whatever. He's like a looney tune. A looney tune or he's like a Rumpelstiltskin or something. He's like something that's entered your life and it's like uh-uh bat no no no now you must do whatever the clifford says he's like the physicalization of a curse yes he's like a curse

that is a good way to put it and so is the answer like it's kind of like if a mugger points a gun at you do you argue with the mugger or do you just say look here's my wallet like please go away you know do you just resolve the bad thing and with clifford it'sger or do you just say, look, here's my wallet. Like, please go away. You know, do you just resolve the bad thing? And with Clifford, it's like, yeah, do you just deal with the curse first or do you try and like avoid the curse? Does fighting make it worse? I think it is a very existential movie. Really? Truly.

Okay, Ben, what happens next? All right. the uh the boss uh dabney right um by saying that's a great that's the bestest rug i've ever seen or bestest toupee i've ever seen yeah uh and so that's sort of starting this like recurring kind of uh beats let's say of like clifford being brought out with uh martin and him just ruining what is happening in his life. Right. And Dabney, Grodin is trying to impress Dabney. Dabney is trying to impress Steenburgen.

And Clifford's right here in the middle. Dabney is pretty superfluous. We don't really need Dabney, right? No, not at all. He's an odd, yeah. So we go back to. He has a lot of obstacles. Yeah.

But they end up kind of not mattering at all. Not at all. Part of the plot is like, Grodin's trying to get this big deal done, and then at the end of the movie, it's like, it doesn't get done, and then it's just not mentioned again. Right. Clifford just fucks it up, and it's like, well, alright, I guess I'm not gonna do that.

He doesn't then save the deal. No. And so, in this moment where he's like, sort of at Clifford, Clifford then sets up what's leading to the party, right? Because I think we should just jump to that. But Clifford also, he does this thing where he goes like, you can't just say to someone that they have a good rug. And he's like, I didn't say it, Martin. I said he had the bestest rug in the whole wide world it's a compliment like you're establishing this thing that Clifford never

thinks he does anything wrong and always has an explanation that either he didn't do it the way you're perceiving the incident is incorrect his intentions were pure like Clifford never owns anything and you also get no kind of look it all gets blamed on

what's the Stefan or whatever. And you don't get a look into Clifford's thought process. Sometimes it's hard to tell if Clifford knows what he's doing or not. As the movie goes on, there are later points where it's like, okay, Clifford's Machiavellian. Yes. But there are early points where you're just like, is Clifford just oblivious?

Is he not realized? Is he just an agent of chaos? But then there's that point where he kind of has the internal monologue where it's because Martin has to go to a family dinner. Yeah. And he's like,

he'd rather go to dinner than like take me to dinosaur land. It's the one time Clifford like externalizes his thought process.

Right. Says it out loud and then makes the tape with the bomb threat. And then, right. And then you're like, right, this is a

psychotic kid. That's what it is, right? Well then you're like, right, this is a psychotic kid. That's what it is, right? Well, that's what you do when you don't get your way. Yeah. He's woken the devil. Yes. And so at the party, it's, you know, sort of like the stakes are high somewhat for Charles Grodin character because he really

is already not on good terms with his girlfriend. Now he's going to the 35th anniversary of her parents. Who don't seem to like him very much from the get-go. Not at all. No, true.

They're not big characters, but they're not that fond of him. No. And so we just get a great fucking, like, stuck-up party scene with a ton of hijinks. True.

Put Sabasco in the Bloody Mary. Sabasco in the Bloody Mary. Which, let's be clear who drinks bloody mary's at that time yeah odd time to drink a bloody mary number one two tabasco a great ingredient in bloody mary yeah just in moderation i guess right too much and then it swaps out the lipstick for the chapstick or rather the opposite of what i just said also they didn't need to keep showing him putting on Chapstick that much. Yeah, we get it.

It's like five shots of him doing it to set up that one joke. It takes him a while to figure it out. Yeah, you could say they were gilding the lily on that one. Or Chapsticking the grodan on that one. Also, why is everyone laughing at him? It's such a weird reaction. Yeah, this movie has some weird moments of transphobia out of nowhere. Yeah, that's a weird reaction. Yeah. This movie... It's sort of crazy. ...has some weird moments of transphobia out of nowhere. Yeah, that's a good point.

I actually... I mean, like... Their reaction to him in this moment's very odd. Isn't there the thing where the other guy starts looking at him amorously, and then they keep on calling him a lady? Yeah. I mean, I think this is... You see that a lot in those 80s and 90s, early 90s comedies,

where it's like, a man dressed as a woman? Can you imagine or what ace ventura pet detective has that like fucking horrendous well that's that's crazy yeah that's that that's on a whole other level because not only is it quite offensive but also for a movie made in 94 it's also weirdly sexually graphic yeah like outside it's just sort of a crazy way to end the movie you like kind of see Sean Young's testicles, right? And then everyone vomits?

Not vomits, but everyone who has made out with Sean Young at some point goes like, and like loves their tongues. And they play Everybody Hurts? They play some song over it. They definitely don't play Everybody Hurts. I can't remember what they play. It's insane. It's terrifying.

It's terrifying. It's like staring into madness. We'll probably never. I mean, Tom Shadyak's had a very strange very strange career okay i'll make a promise right here if this show runs for 10 years we'll do a tom sure sure but um that movie is jim carrey's very funny in it but like it's a very dark movie like and like i just mean like it's like a weird hard-boiled crime movie and it's about a crazy person. And there's that scene where he goes to the guy's house and it's filled with like he's got his old like weird like hillbilly parents and the house is filled with like defaced images of Dan Marino. It's really odd.

Tone Loke though. Tone Loke's great. I think When Nature Calls is better even though it is hashtag problematic in its own ways. No, When Nature Calls is better, even though it is hashtag problematic in its own ways. No, When Nature Calls is way worse. When Nature Calls is terrible, but it has one incredible, incredible scene. When he walks out of the elephant spot? Yes. Which is good.

It's just funny. It's also got the Monopoly man. The Monopoly guy thing. Yeah, that's kind of funny. Carmen's rule of this is the worst screenwriting thing you can ever man. The Monopoly guy thing. Yeah, that's kind of funny. Carmen's rule of like, this is the worst screenwriting thing you can ever do is the Monopoly guy thing. Do you know about this, Ben? No.

So when nature calls, there's a scene where he goes to the party and everyone's looking at him weird because he's Ace Ventura and he's like disrupting stuff. Right. And someone's like, well, I never.

And he's like a bald man wearing like a tuxedo with a monocle. And Ace Ventura goes like oh and who are you the monopoly guy and Dan Harmon uses that like he calls it a monopoly guy which is like when a movie sets up its own joke like to make a character look funny yeah it's like that's not impressive that he zinged the monopoly guy because you had a central casting call for a guy who looks like the Monopoly guy and then you went to wardrobe and you said can you make this guy look more like the Monopoly

guy like it's like not funny if you set up circumstances that make someone look funny when they were anyway Monopoly guy Clifford Clifford alright so moving right along last beat in the

party scene, right? Because we have the sabotage speech. We have the lipstick at the table. And then we have the police storm in and arrest Charles Grodin's character. Because he made a bomb threat. Apparently, yes. Called in a bomb threat at the home that they're in. Oh, and did we zoom past when the gas station scene where there's the family who are going to dinosaur land and he switches

costumes with the boy? Oh yeah, that was a little in between of those, yeah. He pays a kid money to wear his dinosaur costume so he can sneak away with his family. Oh, that's right. And then Charles Gurdon goes in the bathroom and sees a kid dressed like Clifford with a lot of money. Clifford does a lot of stuff that doesn't make any sense. He fills his house with teenagers

at one point and you have no idea how he could have possibly met or engaged with these teenagers. And then ties himself up. It's really weird. Yeah. I mean, they also, we were talking about the scene where he pays the kid for the dinosaur costume. There's like a weird pedophile joke that I did not remember from watching it as a kid. Charles Grodin is like, yeah, I just saw him in the bathroom with a bunch of money or something like that. Oh, that's right.

And you're like, oh my God. What? Yeah, because the mother's like, what are you doing with my son? He's like, I ran into him in the bathroom. He had all this money. Where does Clifford get all that money from? I don't know. The other really bad trans joke in this movie is when

Mary Steenburgen is like, you're a phony and I can spot a phony from a mile away. And then these two trans men with deep voices walk up to her. Yes, that's another weird bit.

And they're like, which way to 8th Street? Yeah, they're like, hey honey, where are we? And she's like, oh, right over there, ma'am, or whatever. And you're like,

uh-huh, we get it. But it's set up like an airplane gag where it goes like, nice beaver, and then you see a beaver. it's um like the movie implies that trans people are phonies uh well they're they're they're like they're drag queens right yeah okay but i mean yeah but nonetheless it is i don't know if they are i mean i feel like this is from a time where they were like oh all trans people are drag exactly where Exactly. That's what it feels like.

They were considered one and the same. Right. But beyond that, it's also just tonally it's like, right, are we in an airplane movie? Or are we in like a Beethoven movie? Right. Is this sort of a thing about a grounded guy's life getting fucked up by a problematic kid? Right. Or is this like a

just a wacky throw jokes every one minute, you know, like, right, like just like zap, zap, zap throw jokes every one minute you know like right like just like zap zap zap uh like screwball come well there's a third option are we in hell are we all sharing in a common mass delusion this movie is definitely set in hell it is it's a very hellish and then it descends into hell at the end right like the dinosaur stuff is. Okay, so Martin gets arrested. Yes, and, you know, really it looks like almost Clifford's sort of winning now, right? Because it is. They're competing against each other.

Clifford gets to go home with the girl, and he's eating a bunch of sugary cereal and garbage. Yeah, I don't like any of that. Clifford's game is disgusting. It's really gross, yeah. Does he want to fuck the clowns? I don't know. I think he does. Yes. Oh boy. But Grodin comes home. He covers

for Clifford. They go back to his apartment. He's just he can't deal anymore. He's like really now starting to lose it. That's when you get the speech I quoted at the top of the episode. He's like, just act like a human. What is

wrong with you? Why would you do this? Which is a great moment for Grodin. It's so good. Watching Grodin disintegrate, I honestly almost wish it went a little further in that direction too. I do too. I really wish at the end of this movie Grodin strangled him to death or something. This movie almost has a weird

slow burn. Like, it takes 45 minutes before stuff starts getting Right, because it's kind of light and cute for a while. Right. And then, of course, and there's also that beginning bit, you know,

the 2050 stuff that's also pretty light and cute. Yeah. And you're like, yeah, okay, this is a kid's movie. I get it. Right.

And then suddenly, I mean, he has ruined Charles Gordon's life. Yes. He loses his job. He loses his girlfriend. Yeah. He blows up his house practically. No, carry on. Well, alright, so we'll just

get through it because, again, it's just like, we gotta get to that last scene, right? That's the big point. Where it becomes a German expressionist. Oh my god, it's so crazy. But anyway, so, Grodin basically, he yells at Clifford, sends him to his room.

Clifford runs away, right? He sees the note. He chases him to the train station, gets on the train. Clifford's pulled a fast one on him. He puts his Polaroid over the milk carton to set himself up as a lost child. Oh yeah, God. That's also weird.

Grodin ends up in San Francisco. Clifford stays behind. And then throws a party at his high school kid. It's the moment where you think, you do for a second think, oh, now here we come to the kid movie reversal where Clifford realizes he's gone too far and he works to fix everything.

No. No. Grodin gets on the train to San Francisco and then it's revealed Clifford's not on that train. He was just getting rid of everything. No. No. No. Gurdon gets on the train to San Francisco and then it's revealed like Clifford's not on that train. He was just getting rid of him. Right. And he's having a fun dance sequence.

Then he invites a bunch of teenagers to their house. And then when Gurdon gets home, Clifford's tied like a fucking, like a Dudley Do-Right heroine would be tied to the train tracks, like his arms and legs behind him. And he's like, oh, these kids, I was going to run away, but then I thought better of it. And these kids came and they tied me up. Sure. And Grodin's like, no, no, no, no.

Yeah. None of this. Also, we skipped over real quick. I just, let's not forget the problematic scene of the boss and Mary Steenberg. Oh yeah. Like basically a weird just rape scene in the middle of this movie. I mean, he's trying to date rape her.

I mean, he's trying to... He won't take no for an answer, essentially. He, like, slut shames her, too. Yeah, he gives her a necklace, and she's like, oh, thanks. And then he's, like, trying to fuck her, and she's like, I was never gonna, like, I don't even like your necklace.

She tries to take it off. That's one bit I like when she's having this conversation with the neck around her face and it lasts for like two minutes the necklace around her face the neck around her face I just actually want to say because we're talking about this like

kind of humor with like gay jokes right and just like weird rapey kind of stuff like you mean like bad humor yeah bad. This was the stuff that unfortunately our generation sort of grew up on a little bit. Yeah. I mean, yes, there were especially like the late 80s, early 90s. A lot of comedies were just about like this guy's normal. Isn't everyone else in the world weird? And the other people who were weird were like coded as as uh you know just any other type of person yep yep i i've just i'll say on the record that i'm glad that that is not a acceptable

sort of thing anymore yeah and i hope that it affects younger generations so that we get to a better place oh you're hoping clifford has a huge impact on younger generations so that we get to a better place. Oh, you're hoping Clifford has a huge impact on younger generations? No, no, just that new comedies, new movies don't have jokes and garbage like this movie has. But Ben. I love it. You do like this movie. I love it. So why do you like the movie?

Because I will say I didn't really like the movie, but I certainly was fascinated by it. It's a curio. Yeah, it's an interesting curio. I kind of couldn't believe what I was watching. I will tell you, and this is actually really... Fuck. All right, fine. Are you about to cry?

My dad is a lot like Charles Grodin, and I'm a lot like Clifford. That relationship... That makes a ton of sense. From everything you've said about your dad. Yeah. My dad is sort of a grouchy guy who's quick to sort

of lose his cool. And I was such a monster as a kid. I bet you were. I was always fucking with him because I thought it was so funny to get him mad. Wow. So that is part of why I think I love this movie so much. I would. Just to give you an example,

I used to torture my dad where he would like try to get me to do chores. And I was watching a lot of SNL reruns at the time, so I would always do Dana Carvey's Bush, like, not going to do it. And I would, like, pretty young, just tell my dad no to his face when he asked me to take the garbage out by, like, quoting this Bush impression. Not going to do it. Not going to do it impression. Not gonna do it. Not gonna do it. Not gonna do it. And you'd be like, Ben, you really have to take the not gonna do it.

You gotta just, you know, you gotta be responsible, help out. Not gonna do it. And he would just like lose his fucking mind. And then I would laugh. Can we, I know we pitched Blank Check Babies in the past as an animated series. Yeah. About us in the playpen. Right.

I think we've got to do The Adventures of Young Ben as an animated series. I'd love to watch a cartoon show where Ben with his current grown-up voice, like Life with Louie style, plays a little cartoon Ben on a dirt bike. Like Bobby's World? Yeah. Oh, God. That show sounds amazing. It would be interesting. I could pitch a couple episodes One is finding porn in the woods

What are the other episodes? One would be By accidentally starting a trash fire Sure I can see that One would be Stealing a Robitussin and drinking a bunch of it behind a cost cutters? You know, just growing up stuff like that.

I also understand why you like gumbo so much. That's the thing though, you're not as crazy as that. Your childhood was actually fairly normal, but you were just as crazy as that like your childhood was actually fairly normal but you were just kind of acting out but when you saw like gumbo you're like yeah that's my people um okay so so i think we've we pretty much yeah i mean dabney coleman she throws his rug out a window he flips out he gets a new rug with a ponytail. Right. He growed in super late to this presentation. He hasn't shaved. He's starting to look mangy.

And David, you notice what he's carrying around to present? The files, the presentation are on. It's on a SyQuest. It's on a SyQuest. Which is a archaic form of having basically, like, an external hard drive. How's he at it? Yeah, it was kind of like a floppy disk, but it was bigger. Right.

Big floppy disk. Yeah. And then somehow Clifford sabotaged that. He fucking sabotaged it. He blows up the model. He robs Los Angeles of a functional public transportation system. Then, he's,

Grodin snaps and decides to take him to Dinosaur World in the middle of the night. But, but when Daphne Coleman's like, what happened here?

He's like, I'm fired, right? And he's like, yeah, and he's like, no, Grodin actually is just like, it was me.

Because he's lost it. At this point, right, he's broken so thoroughly that he's gone all the way back to calm. Right. And he's just like, becomes a nihilist that he's gone all the way back to calm. Right. And he's just like, becomes a nihilist.

He's like, I'm going to kill that boy. Right. And this really reminds me of my dad because he would just be like, yeah, yeah, it's a funny joke, Ben. Good stuff. He never gave you comedy points. That's what this is about. It was all about the comedy points. Your dad never gave you comedy points.

Nah, he just wanted those sweet, sweet comedy points. Come on. Let's just do the final thing. Alright, so Grodin kidnaps Clifford and he takes him to finally Dino World, right? 50% of the movie's budget spent on these eight minutes, right? Holy shit. They go big on Dino World.

Dino World's basically like a giant animatronic ride, I guess, that you can take. It's supposed to be the La Brea Tar Pits's like yeah the world's like attached to it or whatever roller coaster that's also kind of a dark story ride it's kind of a it's a it's certainly a dark ride it's also not repeatable no it's also like like what it's also just crappy but also like when they get to dino world it's like these huge map paintings, the park itself is fucking humongous. It's massive. Yeah, and really well designed. Yeah.

I like all this stuff visually. But, like, the movie now becomes, like... I don't disagree with you, actually. You know, these, like, very bizarre expressionistic images. Like, a lot of black shadows and smoke. And these odd robot creatures. And the music starts getting, like, insane. He puts him through the ride. And Clifford's just like, finally, great.

Then he's like, you have fun? And then he like accelerates him through the ride. Why don't we do it again, Clifford? And then he puts him into like hyper drive or whatever he says. Starts hurting. And the robot, the T-Rex disintegrates and turns into like an angry skeleton. Oh, right. That's the other part.

It's one of those rides where there's like a game where you have the laser and you have to kill the... Yeah. And then if you don't do that, you might die. Right. Like you might fall into this... It catches on fire? I don't know.

It's very unclear. It's a strange nightmare sequence that goes on for a while. Yeah. Weirdly, what I don't like is that when this ride goes goes wrong Gordon seems to try to fix it I don't know why he's trying to fix it he wants the kid dead he wants the kid dead he's got nothing to lose there is actually it's a great reference to like a really early comedy

bit that's a Steve Allen bit which is like Clifford's hanging off the ride like about to fall into the T-Rex's mouth and he's like help me help me and he's like I'm thinking it over, which is like the reference to like your money or your life. He's like, I'm thinking, I'm thinking.

It's good. Cruden's delivery on that line is really good. So good. But anyway, he does save fucking Clifford, which honestly, wouldn't you have liked the movie better if he died? A hundred percent. I would have liked it. And then you cut to the future better if he died a hundred percent i would have liked it and then you cut to the future and he's like but wait you died and he's like yep and it's

like well how are you here and he's like i don't know don't worry about it i'm not exaggerating if that's how the movie ended i would give it an a yeah instead it was like a like an evil ghost floated up into the sky you know like he like he was released finally. Right. I think it was the most formally inventive comedy of all time. Instead, the movie, in my opinion, kind of tanks itself by then ending, cutting back to old Clifford. With Corey Matthews. With Corey. And he's like, so did you ever like figure it out? And he's like, well, I sent him a million letters of apology.

All of them returned. All returned. And then one day he asked me to be the ring bearer at his wedding how'd he do that? I don't know in his lack of communication and then you know

now I'm here the end the boy's like you know I could never be as bad as you I'm not gonna try what are you gonna do son well I'm gonna write 180 apology notes good and then

clifford walks away and it turns out he's had the dinosaur in his pocket the whole time and he goes like mission accomplished which who cares i don't fucking care and then the insane twisted carnival music plays again and the movie ends in the year 2050 box. Yeah. Well, thank you guys though. What a weird movie. Ben, thank you. I mean, this is I think for, you know, there are a lot of hos hogs in our fan base, right? People love that. The hogs.

The hogs. The hogs. I think they're going to eat this episode up because this is kind of an origin story. It's true. Yeah. I think this episode functions as like the beginning of Last Crusade. Yeah. We're seeing how he got the scar. We're seeing why he doesn't like snakes. What's true. I think this episode functions as like the beginning of Last Crusade. We're seeing how he got the scar. We're seeing why he doesn't like snakes. What's next, Ben? I don't... Oh, man.

Well, King Ralph is a film I love. We're doing King Ralph next. How did you never mention King Ralph before? It's like immediately locked down. Of course we're doing King Ralph next. We should get Chase Mitchell back for that. I think he's moving to LA. He loves King my god i love it it's an american trying to be fancy yeah i i uh i was on a road trip recently from the director of major league another favorite of yours yeah oh my god it

makes you cry so hard uh i was on a road trip uh back from uh uh toronto and we were driving through like up upstate New York. Yeah. And we stopped at a piece of Parlor to pee and they had a King Ralph poster inexplicably. Right. Like it wasn't like

oh King Ralph was filmed here. Yeah. They had a lot of artwork of just like here's Jackie Robinson here are things in American history and then just King Ralph

like someone who worked there was just like a big King Ralph stan. Anyway box office game. This movie cost about $20 million to make. It made seven domestic, zero elsewhere. I'll say much higher than I thought it was going to be.

I wouldn't have been surprised if this is one of those movies that made like $1 million. It made seven. On the weekend of April 1st, 1994, it opened number seven at the box office. They released this movie on April Fool's Day. They did. They did.

Okay. It opened number seven, 2.5? 2.5 million. It lingered for a few weeks and then disappeared. It was an Orion release, but as we discussed, it was on the shelf for years.

Number one is a sequel to a movie I literally just mentioned. A sequel to a movie you literally just mentioned. A sequel to a movie you literally just mentioned? Yes, that opened number one this week, $7 million. Major League Two? Correct. Major League Two, which is the one that

still has Sheen and Berenger and Corbin Bernson, right? That's still got all the guys in it. The whole gang is back, yeah. There it is. Yeah. Odd to open Clifford against it, weirdly, actually. I always think better than the first, but maybe it was on Comedy Central more. I saw that one a lot.

I don't know if I've ever seen Major League Two. I've seen Major League, and weirdly I've seen Major League back to the minors, the third one. The Bacula one, back in Bacula. Ben, what's your opinion on Major League Two? I don't think I've seen it. Wow. I've only seen the first one. There's a whole plot line, which I think now might be pretty loaded, where Charlie Sheen tries to reform and become a respectable man.

Sure. And there's a big moment at the end where he puts the wild thing glasses back on and unleashes the beast. I remember being very emotionally affected by that as a child. Anyway, that's number one at the box office. Cool. Number two is another kids comedy. It's interesting. April was just the...

It's another sequel. Live action. Live action. It's not Problem Child 2. No. That'd be too perfect. It would be. Yeah. But I think we might have even talked about it on the... We certainly talked about the original. I definitely saw this in theaters it's not home alone 2 lost no no i think just you know but it's in a live action

kids comedy sequel sports two sports oh my ducks 2 d2 the mighty ducks d2 the mighty ducks the best of the franchise uh yes i would say so no question uh the only really good one in my opinion yeah it's the only one that really works as a movie. It has made $16 million in two weeks. It's having a nice time over at the box office. Yeah. Number three is a pretty underrated Ron Howard comedy. A nice little movie.

The paper? Yeah, that was shot in my mom's office. Yeah. And featured a lot of her coworkers. And your favorite actor. Mikey Keaton. Yeah, not a bad movie. No, Keaton and Howard should do a movie together again. That's a good call.

I think it would help both of them. Gung Ho is not good, but The Paper is good. They did four together? Or three? They did Gung Ho, they did Night Shift. They did Night Shift. And The Paper. Yeah.

I thought they were a good team. The Paper is good. Mikey. I love Mikey. It has made $12 million in three weeks on its way to $38 million. Nice little sort of just, you know, stuck along there. Number four, another comedy sequel. Who?

Why did they open Clifford this week? It's like the box office is crammed with comedy. Yeah. The third in a comedy franchise and final film. The third and final film, The Naked Gun 33. And a third. And a third. Yes.

The final insult, which is the bad one. It's the worst one. Yeah it's still got some good shit in it. It has more successful jokes than most movies ever made. Yeah I mean look they're great.

That franchise is incredible. Also a franchise where I would say the second one's the best. Might agree. Yeah. I sort of I do mix them all up

in my head. I do too. A lot of them. A lot of time. But God. Number five is just a hilarious comedy about the Holocaust.

It's not a comedy. Ohocaust it's not a comedy oh god uh it's not a comedy no you're not okay it had just one best picture we discussed it some other movies you got in there um you got above the rim two-pack basketball movie yeah marlo wayans uh you got thumbumbelina, the Don Bluth. Is that the final Don Bluth Studios? No, because Anastasia comes after this. Well, right, but that's when he's moved to Fox. Oh, yes.

Right, but the Pebble and the Penguin might be. These were MGM. This is when Bluth was at MGM. Is that right? I don't know. I think he was floating around. He might have been a Warner Brothers. I can't remember.

You know what Bluth's final film was, right? I saw Thumbelina in theaters. Titan A.E., right? Yeah, and do you know who wrote Titan A.E.? We talked about this. The fucking tick guy in Joss Whedon. Yeah. It's great.

Ben Adler. Four Weddings. My Papa Ben Adler. Four Weddings is in there. Okay. End of Funeral? Or did the funeral not make the top ten? Guarding Tess.

When they were like Jessica Tandy No, it's Shirley MacLaine and that movie is I've never seen it Who's the co-star? Nicolas Cage, baby It was when Nicolas Cage was

capable of giving good comedic performances I think that movie is charming Austin Pendleton I forget who else was in the cast was capable of giving good comedic performances. I think that movie's charming. Austin Pendleton. I forget who else was in the cast. I like that movie. Anyway. Yeah, Mrs. Doubtfire's still hanging out.

Monkey Trouble. Philadelphia. Oh, Monkey Trouble. Ace Ventura's still in there. Monkey Trouble. The Piano, The Pelican Brief. We discussed a recent movie that was close to this time. I can't remember which one it was.

Yeah, because the list came up recently. Yeah. Was it Blank Check? It must have been. Right, it's another 94 movie. Right. This is a big year for shitty kids in movies. Yeah, seriously.

Kind of a classic year for the bad. Sociopathic children. Yeah, and like that's kind of what our society was in the mid-90s. Like that's when advertisers start pitching directly to us. Yeah. And like movie studios start talking directly to us and it's like, ha ha, fuck parents, am I right? Well, like the whole Nickelodeon magazine campaign that was like, you have to trick your parents into getting you a prescription.

A prescription. A subscription. But sometimes Nickelodeon magazine was a prescription because it was the cure for all illness. Humiliating adults was kind of just crucial. And also gross shit. It was like, stuff for kids looks like boogers or turds so like your parents will vomit when they see you playing with it. And you don't tell them it's actually chocolate.

You know, like shit like that. Yeah, totally. It's the post-Garbage Pail Kids world we're living in. Yeah. That's it. That's it. That's all I got. End of Clifford, right?

Yeah. Ben, any final remarks? Yeah, Ben. I have one story I want to tell. I can do it before or after your final remarks. You go, please. Just because we talked about him. I think I probably told you this, David.

Martin Short did tell the best joke I've ever witnessed in my entire life. Which was, we were rehearsing the show, and they were having a camera problem, so we hit some downtime. Yeah. And he walked over to our set, because all the sets on sitcoms are built next to each other, right?

Yeah. And just started entertaining myself and John Mulaney and Nassim Pedrat. He's so filled with Hollywood stories, that we try to prompt him, be like, what about Richard Pryor? Do you know Richard Pryor? And he'd go, well, Richard's interesting.

And he'd either do that or he'd do bits, right? He's always doing bits, always trying to keep everyone entertained. So he sat down on the couch next to us on the set. And he was like, I'm just going to take a nap. And then he started doing impressions. And he was like, here's my impression of Mama Cass. And then he pretended to eat a sandwich and then started choking. And then spit it out and then started eating the sandwich again like he just started doing all these like tasteless you know like old hollywood legend jokes uh-huh and um then someone somehow

karen carpenter got invoked talking laterally off of mama cass and he got serious and he went do you know uh that the uh house the carrot carpenter died in uh it's still on the market they tried to sell it was this beautiful mansion the hills they tried to sell it afterwards and no one wanted to buy it and it was you know it's originally like three million dollars and it's gone down over the years but it's they've still never sold it it's still on the market it's down to like three hundred thousand dollars now it's just there and mulaney went wow so it's just no one wants to sell just because it was like creepy and he went no kitchen it's pretty funny it's really good and mulaney sat there awestruck and he went wait a second that joke is reliant on someone asking the question.

He went, but they always do. And he went, how long have you been telling the joke? And he goes, I don't know when a Karen Carpenter died. This all sounds like a great conversation. And then he was like,

you know, he went, did you have to adjust the price of the house? He goes, I adjust for inflation a little bit, but it's important that the price of the house

at the end is low enough that people ask because they're thinking maybe I could buy it. So that's the best joke I've ever heard in my life. No kitchen. Oh boy. Ben, what do you want to say? Alright, final thoughts. Love Martin Short. Yeah, this was a revealing episode for me.

We love you, Ben. I love you, Ben. I love you too, guys. You're the Martin Short of my heart oh thanks yeah I would just say I hope that we have movies that are

just as fun as this movie but don't have problematic jokes in it yeah don't don't shit on other people entire groups these 90s movies

that you're gonna pick are probably always gonna have a couple stinkers in there they're always gonna have some like, like, ugh kind of moments. Yeah, I can't wait to watch King Ralph and realize that it's the genesis of the all-right movement or something. Oh, God. It's about King Gamergate. Right.

Jeez. I will say, too, I guess what it was is I, as a kid, I'm realizing this now, aside from Steven Seagal, I was obsessed with 90s sketch comedic actors. Of course. I just loved all of those movies. And the weird thing is that they're not successful movies. Really, for the most part. But anyway,

fuck it. It reminds me of being a kid, the 90s, you know, out of date technology, all the things I like. Ben, I couldn't have said it better myself. Fuck it. What are we doing next, Griffin? I don't know.

Okay. Yeah, this is so, by the time we get there, we'll have a sense. We'll know where we're going. Okay, so let's do that thing where we drop in now. Hey, tune in next week for...

Wow! Can't wait. Oh, my God. That director is what a choice. My Lord, how? Next week, four. Wow. Can't wait. Oh, my God. That director is what a choice. My Lord, how will we ever thread that needle? What bits will be revived? Their first movie, by the way, is interesting because we should say the name of the first movie.

Yes, their first movie, of course, was. Crazy when you think about it. It's interesting. I mean, the context. And also also it came out in this year. Yes. And the year, of course, was. Which, I mean, what's even to say

about that year? A lot. But later. A lot later. But the president of that year was. And of course, who can forget

that that year People Magazine's Sexiest Man Alive was. And of course, we should have a moment of silence for the tragedy that happened. And also the Nobel Prize in Chemistry went to... You're kicking it, right? Are we done?

Yes. Can you keep doing that? Yes. Thank you for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Margot Kidder's age at the time was... I couldn't help it. Thanks to all the blankies out there check our reddit

yeah check our peep our twitter you know thanks to Ange for doing the social media thanks to uh let's just thank everybody I don't fucking know alright great it was a great time love Pat Reynolds Lane Montgomery we don't thank everyone enough All right, great. Pat Reynolds. It was a great time. Love Pat Reynolds. Lane Montgomery. We don't thank everyone enough.

Love them all. And as always. This has been a UCB Comedy Production. Check out our other shows on the UCB Comedy Podcast Network.