Blank Check with Griffin & David - Collateral with Katey Rich

Episode Date: July 7, 2019

#thetwofriends welcome back Katey Rich (Vanity Fair) to discuss 2004's Cruise/Foxx thriller Collateral. Together they examine the initial casting of Adam Sandler as the cab driver, as well as, the entire cast's excellent performances, contemplate a coyote and more.

Blank Check with Griffin and David Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check Someday, someday my dream will come One night you'll wake up and discover it never happened. It all turned around on you. It never will.

Suddenly you are old. Didn't happen and never will because you were never going to do it anyway. You'll push it into memory and then zone out in your Barco lounger, being hypnotized by daytime TV for the rest of your life. Don't you talk to me about murder. All it ever took was a down payment on a Lincoln Town car. That girl, you can't even call that girl. So what the fuck are you still doing hosting a podcast?

What if Vincent came here and he made us assassinate people through the radio? I don't know. This is my new game, and I feel like it's become very fertile, is just really working further language of podcasting not just not just using the one word to substitute yeah right so that has some meaning yeah yeah that's good because i feel like vincent's gonna come in at some point to our show for you at the window yes yes throw me out a window uh which will take very little force he'll just walk in and I'll throw myself out a window. You know who's scary? Tom Cruise in Collateral?

Vincent. Yeah, very scary. I forgot how much he's just like Jaws in this movie. Yes, he's like an animal. Or a robot. He's like a robot animal. Right. He's like a Terminator dog.

Yes, he is. Because he sort of sniffs. He does these great sniffs. Yeah, I'll be Bark. You know what I'm saying? I mean, you know what I'm... It's like he's saying, I'll be bark. I'm going to call Vincent.

Get him over here. I got a job for you, buddy. Dude, sweet. He's got like a robot voice in the thing. Like there's something about it where it's just like, I don't know what you're doing exactly, but it's like he's got like a voice modulator the thing. There's something about it where it's just like, I don't know what you're doing exactly, but it's like he's got a voice smudge later in his throat. He does have a...

I think he worked very hard on the voice. And it's a weird thing. I feel like... The manner of speaking. We've talked a lot on this show about old TC. 14? And also TC, what, 52? What age is he now?

I think he's like 56. Really? Older than Milford, Brimley, and Cocoon. Yes. I mean, that's very true. He's 56, and he's going to be 57 in July. Okay, so old... And he's planning on going to space or whatever the fuck the Mission Impossible movie is going

to do, right? He's going to like drill to the center of the earth. Let's start calling him TC57. Can we do that on this show? Sure. Okay, so old TC57. You could also call him TC4, because he is Thomas Kruse Mupala IV. Yeah, but I don't like that.

Fair enough. TC57's funnier. It's got a good rhythm to it. It's got a good rhythm. We talked about him many times on the show because he likes working with auteurs, directors who have mastered success early on in their career and have given a series of blank checks,

make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby, our producer is very, very excited. He's so proud of you. He lit up that I got to that that quickly. It was so good and it was so seamless and it was really masterfully done.

See? Here's the thing though. Yeah. He was interested or he was into that. Right. Working with the auteurs. Right. And the weird into that right working with the auteurs right now and the weird shift is he moves out of auteurs he becomes mr sci-fi action movie guy that's right which he previously not been much of an action guy right but i think a thing that we all like about modern tom cruise action movies is there all these meta narratives about like he's finally like he's lost it

and he's trying as hard as he can to hold on to it as much as he can. And I think he becomes a more interesting actor when wrinkles finally start showing up on his face because for so long he was so perfect. And this movie is a weird example of you see how much effort

went into trying to make Tom Cruise look more worn down than he was. Right. So you'd say this is no wrinkles on his face yet or not as many. I think the wrinkles are prosthetic. And the gray in his hair. It's all prosthetic. The gray in the hair feel like it does.

He loved his look in this so much that he renewed his passport in makeup. Really? What? Took a photo of himself because he was like, I'm not going to look this good. You know, whatever. I'm going to look this good. You know what? I bet that's why he starts to like let himself age after this sure i mean a little bit he doesn't look 57 he doesn't but i also think like he becomes a more interesting actor when he has bags under his eyes when he's in like edge of tomorrow or the last couple of

mission impossibles and you really feel the like tension in that guy he had the like youthful cocky energy for like decades. He was one of those guys who like had to fight it. 20 solid years of just he's the youthful cocky guy. This is still him trying to fight his inhuman boyishness. Right. This is Tom Hanks doing Road to Perdition or whatever where it's like, yeah, you've never seen me like this before. Murdering.

Right. You've never seen me murdering. It's crazy that he did this yeah uh only in retrospect now that stars at this level don't really do this it's when you read about who they wanted for him right you know like russell crowe being the big one you're like right those all make sense right guys who are innately kind of scary and when you now i just think, well, of course, Tom Cruise did Collateral. He was in Collateral. But yeah, it is. It is.

He never did a role like this. And what's crazy is this is kind of. This is also the only movie he dies in. Magnolia is the exception, right? It's like 20 minutes. But yes, yes. Magnolia. This is kind of.

But he's a dick in that movie. Not a murder psychopath. Murderer. Right. This is kind of his last like big sort of eye through the sheer will of being tom cruise can make a movie that wouldn't be a blockbuster into a blockbuster because the next year is war the world's in the couch yeah yeah no that's the crazy thing about this is watching him stretch like this and knowing the fall that is coming for him and that he has since recovered

from which is also crazy being like this was a hundred million dollar summer film. Yes this was an August film I saw. And it worked. It worked. It did well overseas. Right. Was it DreamWorks? This was a DreamWorks movie I think. Yes. I think this was when it was still just pure DreamWorks. No other

partner. Yeah 100%. This is one of man's cheapest movies. One of his shortest. One of the shortest one of the shortest which is funny because it did well yeah and uh doesn't look cheap like no it looks like it would cost money and it's long and it's fairly long right but for him this is a lean fucking this is tight this is his only movie that is kind of a conventional thriller man hunter is the other one i would say man hunter is about a broken man who can never go home there's crazy right yeah but this movie has like a traditional relatable protagonist

one also it has a one sentence pitch right whereas man movies usually don't right man movies are more right this is kind of high concept and actually functions in the way that the premise implies rather most man movies where you're like, oh, it's like these stars doing this. And it's like, yeah, but it's like really about their like inability to connect to other people. Right. Which it is. It is, but it's all of those things

in a more direct sort of presentation than he usually gives. So it was able to work as like a down the middle, like, well, we talked about how it used to be like every August, there would be one kind of highbrow action movie. Sure. That would perform well.

What are you thinking of? Like The Bourne Slot, I think. Those movies played. The Bourneys. Right. There are other ones I'm trying to think of now that I'm forgetting. Well, let me take a look. Okay.

I don't know. Pick a year. We talked about this on Little Goldman a couple weeks ago. Yes, that's when we talked about it. When this is airing, I don't know. I knew I talked about it with someone. See, I was there. And the person I talked about it with,

from Vanity Fair and the Little Goldman podcast, Katie Rich, returning for the fourth time. Catherine Rich. I'm so excited to be here. Catherine Rich. Your name is Catherine, right? It is, yes. I knew that.

What's your middle name? Hasty. Whoa. I love it when you guys talk middle names, too, because my child, who has been a previous guest on this podcast, his middle name is Magugan, so I always think of Ben. Magugan. of magugan it's the best middle name prisoner himself i was charlie yes can we have a charlie update because a fan told me because i mentioned charlie

on the assassin's creed oh and i haven't listened yet i mentioned that he loves the movie sing which he may not love anymore no he, he does. Okay, right. I mentioned that I had a video of him singing My Way. I thought that My Way was, I can't remember who sings My Way. Seth MacFarlane sings My Way. He's a master. Of course he does.

Why didn't I put that together? Oh man, y'all want to talk Sing? Oh man. We can talk Sing in a second. But someone tweeted at me like, it was so nice to hear that Charlie is not a baby anymore. It's like, nice to hear a Charlie update. And I was like, right, Charlie was mentioned on the show.

He was part of the show a little bit. His life cycle is part of the show now. So is Charlie. Well, I FaceTimed him before I came in the studio and showed him every bus and taxi and bicycle on the street to New York City, and he was psyched. So that's where we are. He's in the vehicle phase.

Oh, yeah. Well, David, last time you saw Charlie, you were in North Carolina, and he was just screaming in a cement mixer outside the restaurant window. I also took him for a walk at one point and you guys were

at the farmer's market or something and we like walked down the street and he was just pointing at every goddamn car and saying it was yellow and then he'd be like

what color is it actually and then he would say the actual color. He was in that phase where he was saying everything was yellow you told me. Well now that he's

really into taxis so yellow taxis. Yellow taxis. Really into taxis he'd love Collateral. Sure. Or Taxi Brooklyn. Taxi Brooklyn. The show you were on. into taxis so yellow taxis yellow taxis taxis he loved collateral sure or uh taxi brooklyn a taxi brooklyn the show you were on which is based off of the french taxi franchise which is sort of france's rush hour it's like preeminent uh 90s action comedy the premise is very similar

to this sure right it's just a cop right yeah killer. I think it's a cop loses his driver's license, and so he has to have a cab driver drive him around on his case. Which is also the plot of Stuber in theaters this summer. Right, right, which is Uber. The update is that it's Uber. Right. But that is the plot of that. But yeah, here's some movie.

Here's some summer grown-up movies from, I picked a year, 2002, that grossed almost $100 million or more. Panic Room. Road to Perdition. Some of All Fears. Sure. I'll say, we're talking, there's an April, a May, and I believe a July in there. But they all functioned in that way. Well, Panic Room is

the April. July is Road to Perdition. And May is Some of All Fears? That's right. Well, I pulled all three of those, so. I didn't know that. Doing great. Oh, boy. Doing great. Oh, boy. Doing great. Oh, a very grown-up movie, Triple X. Right, which was in August.

That was the austere August blockbuster. Well, this year it's Hobbs and Shaw. Austere is what I think of. So you want me to find the August. Right, you're narrowing it to that very. Because we were arguing, that's why it came up on Little Gold Men, that Hobbs and Shaw has taken that first week of August slot that used to be the austere, and now that has sort of become that guardians of the galaxy guardian slot yeah it's like the last big blockbuster of the summer right if you're either last week of july

first week of august i would argue the uh the uh andy circus plan of the apes movies ran that slot yeah they were always last of july first of august i want to give you more in 2003 it was swat last of July, 1st of August. I want to give you more. In 2003, it was SWAT. I'm not saying that. I agree. It's a great movie for grown-ups that I love. In 2004, it was Collateral, right?

In 2005, what do we have here? David's Looking. 819 was the 40-year-old version. That doesn't really count. I saw that on a date. Oh, The Dukes of Hazzard. Oh, for grown-ups. Oh, Jesus.

Remember that? The other corollary to this is that it's The Help and The Butler slot. You've got early August, it's The Last Bookbuster, and then it's maybe an audience-friendly Oscar contender. Of course, in 2006, it was Bar Nerd, the original party animal. Nolan was almost always a last week of July guy. He likes that last week of July. So I'd say Dunkirk, Dark Knight, Rises,

Inception, all played that kind of game. Where it's like, here's the slightly more intellectual, even when it starts to become more franchise-y, you know? The Bournes, as you note,

always are there. Ultimatum was there. I think Public Enemies had this... No, Public Enemies was early. I want to say it was 4th of July. Would you like to know why I know when Public Enemies came out? Because I was in a screening of Public Enemies

on the Upper West Side in 2009 and the lights were about to go down and I saw a text that Michael Jackson had died. Wow. So that would think late June. Wow. That sounds right. Pineapple Express in 2008. Weird. Yeah, that was that weird that and uh

tropic thunder came out of like right oh yeah right next to each other yeah but the key to this slot i think is things that still can play down the middle have conventional like summer movie appeal but then you can kind of pat yourself on the back to be like you know there's some stuff going on there when did heat open he feels like it would have fit this exactly. Heat came out on Christmas, which is insane. He came out the week after Toy Story. They thought it was an Oscar play because it had Pacino and De Niro. Yeah, but there was another.

It should have come out in August. The problem was they thought De Niro and Pacino for the first time was going to be all it took to break the box office, but they didn't realize that the week before for the first time Buzz and Woody were on the screen. They'd never been... Do you realize before Toy Story,

Buzz and Woody had never been in a movie together before? People had been clamoring. What about in Towering Inferno? They're not in the same scene. They're never in the same scene. What about Bob, Carol, Ted, and Alice? Are they in that one? Fuck, you're right.

They are in that one. But that's a very... That's a small, small part. I know. It's very weird that it's in the movie right uh i could do that all day just try and think of a movie to put them in yeah griffin does that in his spare time i think yes he does no question uh collateral well the other thing to note about collateral is that michael mann is emerging or maybe choosing to emerge from his sort of more Oscar-y phase of his career,

Insider and Ollie, which are expensive movies that flop. Right, and he was supposed to be kind of both. Yeah, and he was supposed to be kind of both. And The Last of the Mexicans kind of was too. He's like, where he's like, okay, that's not what he says, but maybe he's thinking like,

I should make a movie star movie that's more of a straight down the line thriller than like an Oscar and I think Russell Crowe's fully anointed at this point he's the guy who really helped push Russell Crowe over the edge so Russell Crowe now is going to DreamWorks and going let me read through the scripts they've had on the back burner see if I like

anything he brings it to man and I think that's a sort of like I have capital I want to work with this guy I know this guy's the real deal. Here's a movie with all of the themes that he's interested in, but it's a little more straightforward. So he gets on because of Crow. Yeah.

And then when Crow drops out, he still retains the same level of control. Man keeps it. Because he swaps in TC. TC. TC 57. I have not listened to the episodes you guys have done already because they have not. They have not aired. So after Ali.

David's raising his hand like he wants the teacher to call on him. I'm stretching. So the Insider and Ali like have, you know, their own Oscar trajectories. Did they both lose money? Like is man coming off of these like. Yes. Yes. But bruised.

Yes. They both lost substantial amounts of money. The Insider lost so much money. Guess what else? Can you tell me what studio released The Insider? Hint. It's the studio that today announced that Avatar 5 is coming out in 2026.

The Insider. The Walt Disney Corporation. They love losing money. Released The Insider, which cost $90 million and made $30 million. The Insider is a four-quadrant event film. What if on that schedule it just said, Untitled Insider.

Sequel. He's even more inside than ever before. So Russell Crowe has to lend his credit to get Michael Mann. Post-Insider, obviously. Crowe has become a big star. And I think it was that idea of Crowe going like, Look, you made two movies in a row that lost a ton of money but both well liked and obviously the insider got a lot of oscar nominations which any studio respects but there's that thing that we did ollie what studio is ollie uh i want to say it's columbia i think oh yeah of course

will smith right yeah um i i think and we've talked about how michael mann's uh a check was always conditional on the fact that he was always able to get one of the top stars of the moment. Yeah. He's always working one of the big five guys. 100%. Right. 100%. And the funny thing is that in Miami Vice, it's Jamie Foxx.

Right. Right. You know, that Jamie Foxx this year, who Mann's already worked with, becomes a big enough star that he can go up to Mann at the premiere of this movie right and say michael right miami vice right we gotta make that movie i can be tub but then this is the run of three straight michael man summer action movies yes totally right yes yes 100 and collateral is the one that people accept and the other two they're kind of confused by collateral they accept miami vice made some money but was kind of a bomb and people were confused by uh public enemies made a lot of money people were confused yeah very confused black hat made no money and people were very confused just because i want to bring this up confused because i want

to bring this up on every single episode katie what do you think the final domestic total on black hat was after the avengers and cost a hundred million i believe the keep is where we discovered this it was like a february release like january okay so it's like january january yeah during like a snowstorm on top of el nino or whatever i've already told this story before but it was one of those days where the city was like no one leave their house and i was like i'm afraid well my thing was, I was afraid that by the time the snowstorm ended

and people were allowed to leave their house, Black Hat would be out of theaters. So I went to see an 11 a.m. Black Hat on the day where they were like, all businesses are closing at one. And I was like, I might just get trapped

in the Magic Johnson Theater. Just watching Black Hat over and over again. I might be here for four days. If the storm's as bad as they're saying, I might be here for four days because I chose to see Black bad as they're saying, I might be here for four days because I chose to see Black Hat. You could have boosted

the domestic total so much if you just stayed there. I would have kept paying every day with my rent. You paying every day would have increased the total. Run it again! Okay, guess the final

domestic total of Black Hat starring Thor. I think this is going to be too high. I'm going to say 18 million. Wait. Drop the one. I'd say 8 million. 8 million one eight million dollar clear double did they release it wide like yes oh very 2500 screen they took that fucker all the way wide 2561 it was gone from theaters within a month yeah for three weeks it was on 2500 screens and

it's fourth week oh i'm seeing here it went down to 200 screens and then it's fifth week oh oh negative 8 000 you know when i talked to soderberg he said this thing that i think is true which is like you know immediately if your movie did well or right you know like those be on friday morning it's over right it's either over or it isn't and there should be a button that you press that just puts it on Netflix if it flopped. Yeah. Where he's like, just fuck it. You know, who cares?

Like, with Unsane, he was like trying to do this like, yeah, we're going to do like a semi-wide release. And he was like, yeah, on Friday, we were like, oh, yeah, that didn't work. Yeah. And now he's like, just put it on iTunes right now. I don't care. That's Soderbergh's take. Yeah.

No, I agree with that. I think there's one outlier. In the last five years. Yeah, right? I think that's the only movie to open that poorly. I wonder what the conversations were like. Do you think Fox was like, fuck, you know, like when the numbers came in? Yeah.

Or do you think there was anyone who was like, well, you never know. Maybe it'll grow or like the cinema score is good. You know, like, was there someone who saw the magic on the horizon? But I feel like Hugh Jackman saw the future and said, he saw the future. We want the greatest show. Yeah, well, he can see across the sea of time.

I feel like when people were doing like the box office analysis after that first weekend. I love it when Katie's on because this is all we do. I know. Talk about collateral.

No, go on, go on, go on. I feel like when it came out and the people were analyzing it after that first weekend, they were like, look, it's the holiday season, so maybe it has a decent multiplier and it ends up at 60 sure right right because it opened at eight yeah yeah right it opened at a black hat total right fuck it looks like one black hat it's a one black hat weekend we were hoping for a three black hat

weekend what if you ever spend like christmas, like maybe reading the news less, like all of a sudden you go back in January, you're like, what the fuck happened with Greatest Showman? Like it sticks up on you. Right. Because there was that second weekend where it did 187% of what it did the first week. It had a positive. It didn't drop.

So Endgame was 44 black hats, just FYI. It's opening weekend. You're just going to do the math now. But I feel like when people were handicapping it they were like look maybe it has a decent multiplier and it ends up only losing 80 million dollars as opposed to 150 million dollars but they were like the only play fox has here is to try to put it on broadway i mean like maybe they recoup it by like turning it into a broadway show but the movie's not gonna to work theatrically. That logic made you spend $50 million in a

Broadway show to recoup your money. But people were just going like I guess Fox is fucked on this one. Well in the end of the day if you include Worldwide Gross greatest showman was 54 Black Hats. Wow. A full 54 Black Hats? 54 Black Hats. $434

million. Wow. For the greatest showman. But of course, it was The Greatest Showman. It was The Greatest Showman. Which Hugh Jackman does say like two seconds ago. This is The Greatest Showman. And this was them. They sang all about them. It was them.

Yeah. Yeah. It was them. And America said never enough. America said never enough. Gotta go back a second time. Right. Yeah, that's true.

They even said never enough reprise. Never, never, never enough. My favorite song. We had Ben for part of the conversation And he's gone now He's back now You haven't seen The Greatest Showman? Collateral

No I don't like musicals Oh you creep My dad hated musicals growing up Like he refused I'm gonna yell at your dad So we were a non-musical family You're raising your kid right

Yep And I'm so open to learning more about musicals But I'm very turned off by them We gotta do a musical series. You've got to show a musical before Cats comes out. I'm worried that if he sees Cats, he'll never see another one. I know, you'll never see another one. That's the thing.

Cats lost a generation. Like, Cats on Broadway. No, it kind of did. It did. So many people are aging. That's the musical side. That sucks. Yeah, Cats and Phantom is like nonsense.

Like, I don't know. They don't know. They don't know. Do you like Cats, though? It's about Cats. We do like Cats. I have a cat named Pig. I met Pig recently, and I was very happy to meet him. She's good. We've got to show Ben some of the gangster

musicals. Oh, sure. Guys and Dolls, Anything Goes, Oh, yeah, West Side Story. There's some good crime musicals, Ben. Interesting. Yeah, well, that's the truth. You know, West Side Story is kind of a scumbag musical. Oh, yeah, a bunch of ruffians. Okay. You know, I've got knives. You know, and Frank Sinatra.

Yeah, that's Guys and Dolls. That's Guys and Dolls. Oh yeah, a bunch of ruffians. Okay. Marlon Brando and Frank Sinatra. Yeah, that's guys and dolls. That's guys and dolls. There's a character named Nicely Nicely. Okay, wow. All right.

I'm getting more on board. And you know what? I wish that movie was better. It's just okay. I've been hanging out with somebody. I'll give her a shout out, Nelly.

She's into musicals. Wow. So I'm huge. This is insane, Ben. Wow. You better mark the time in case you need to

delete this yeah she's been saying that she's gonna show me about this qualifies as a Benny on the record she's gonna show me

this is on the record this is on the record about musicals so I really yeah and she actually is gonna take me to see King Kong

on Broadway very excited as you tweeted this I gotta see oh baby it's big I feel like Ben might cry seeing King Kong on Broadway I mean it tweeted, this I gotta see. Ooh, baby, it's big. I feel like Ben might cry seeing King Kong on Broadway. It is big. It's about as big as a musical can be.

Visually stunning. I've heard the show is good. I've heard the first thing. I heard about the visually stunning part. I'm all for learning about musicals. I think Ben would love Anything Goes. He'd love Anything Goes. Tap dancing. You like tap dancing?

There's not a great Anything Goes movie as far as I know. There's one movie that is not really an adaptation. They changed 98% of it. It sort of would be hard to adapt

because it's very plot light. Can I say something? I think you have, but go on. On this podcast. May I say another thing, please? No, no, no. I know.

Go ahead. I've kind of always been like, I'd like to direct Anything Goes movie. Go for it. Because it's kind of one of the only classic ones that hasn't been done've kind of always been like, I'd like to direct Anything Goes movie. Go for it. Because it's kind of one of the only classic ones that hasn't been done. It hasn't been done, right? It doesn't feel like someone's rushing to do it.

I'm like, that could maybe be 15 years from now. The closest we've gotten is the Daddy's Boy musical number in Kimmy Schmidt. Yes. On the boat. Yes. That is one of my favorite jokes in the history of television is when the movie is starting again. And Robert Osborne realizes that. Daddy's Boy again? jokes in the history of television is when the movie is starting again yes and robert osborne

realizes that daddy's boy again you know what kimmy shred has jokes such good jokes especially those for but honestly even the like slightly weaker last two seasons like just great jokes yeah god i just finished the tim robinson show that thing fucking rules. Jokes. Oh, yeah. That thing rules. Speaking of jokes, collateral. It's got some jokes. It's got a couple. I mean, weirdly, like, yeah,

kind of banter heavy. Well, this is Michael Mann's big pitch. Once he's really retained control and he knows that Cruise is a guy who presumably is wanting to work with him, you know, he's working his way through like the big American

sort of Hollywood-o tours. He gets him on and he goes, this movie is going to unite two major box office powerhouses. like the big American sort of Hollywood-o tours. He gets them on and he goes, this movie is going to unite two major box office powerhouses. Tom Cruise, we're going to pair him with a comedy star in the role you've never seen him play before. Of course, Adam Sandler. Talking about sand. The Sandman.

Right. This movie was announced as Michael Mann, Tom Cruise, pair up for collateral. And in a dark and interesting role Adam Sandler is in talks you've never seen him like this before and why doesn't Adam Sandler do this movie I love this part because Spanglish goes over schedule

Brooks Jimmy this is your fault Ben Ben I'm liking Spanglish so much it's fun we could have had Sandler as Max Yeah okay Here's a question about Adam Sandler though

Does his ability to play rage spoil some of this? Possibly I mean Jamie Foxx wasn't exactly known for calm performances But there's something about his meekness That you watch it grow It's very impressive I know what you mean But this is a year after

It would have been a year after Punch Dunk Love. Yeah. Which is similarly sort of like meek plus boiling. He's so good at playing meekness. He could have done that. Yeah. I don't know. It might be bad. You never know. If you watch him step up at the end you'd be like okay well I know Adam Sandler can like work himself into a rage and punch somebody. Yeah. That's true.

Sandler's great. What do you think of Sandler Katie? Do you hate Sandler? No. I mean I feel like I grew up around him enough same with everybody else you kind of like you know like the wedding singer

was like a rom-com very dear to my heart in 1998 it is I pulled up a video of him saying that could have been brought to my attention

yesterday like I think about that all of the time I kind of think that's a perfect movie wedding singer is a perfect movie I haven't seen

the wedding singer in close to 20 years so i don't probably the same for me too right i mean aren't you always just kind of wishing adam sandler would do better like it's the thing where he makes um oh fuck the jed apatow movie not grown-ups the funny people and you're like oh okay he gets it and then it's like oh hmm you know what was appealing about the idea of him being in this it's that every other time he's given a sort of serious performance, he's put himself in the hands of a serious filmmaker. The premise has been pretty aggressively uncommercial.

And this was one of the only times that he was going to be playing a more serious role in a premise that kind of worked as a summer movie. Because it feels like the thing that always scared him off. The other one is Inglourious Bastards. Right. Right, which would have been cool too. He was supposed to play the Eli Roth part.

Yeah, I did know that. Right. Eli Roth is really good in that movie, but yeah. Yeah, he's fine in that movie. He's fine. Yeah. I would say he's fine.

Yeah. He's got the look. And they cut down the part a lot when Sandler didn't. Sure, sure. I assume with Sandler. There was a whole chapter they shot of the movie

that is his hometown where like Cloris Leachman was cast and a bunch of big chapter they shot of the movie that is his hometown where like Cloris Leachman was cast a bunch of big actors right and I imagine it was because maybe Eli Roth couldn't handle that much right but but yes that that whole aspect

of is real exciting and you saying like would knowing he has the rage in him sort of spoil the arc of the character my argument is it wouldn't because it's in such a different zone that the rage would still have to be manifested through him seeming cool and dangerous which is a thing he's never done when he gets angry in movies it's so childish oh you're thinking about like when he has to go in and talk to javier bardem and like play it as cool as possible and be intimidating, not establishing. Here's a crazy thing I want to say. Fucking annihilates that scene.

I agree. Yeah, he really does. But here's what I want to say. If Adam Sandler, with his star persona. You're going to be wrong. I know what you're going to say and it's going to be wrong. Had executed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This performance. Right. In his own way, that scene at the same level, I think he would have won the Oscar. Yeah, you're wrong. But that's a great pitch. If he had pulled that scene off, because that was the scene where i think everyone went oh fuck jamie fox now who beat fox this year obviously fox is not going to win because he is winningly actor i was just going to look this up morgan freeman million dollar baby a performance i would argue has not held up incredibly well well that was a career oscar

right a hundred percent he's got the one great moment in that movie. He's fine in that movie. He's arguably the worst performance in that movie. He won best supporting actor in 2005

for Shawshank Redemption. Yeah. That was a hundred percent his Shawshank makeup. It had hit such a cultural saturation. Well, it was, he couldn't be nominated

without winning. It was one of those things where if he'd been nominated for like Farty Pants, you know, the idiot story, he would have won. He hadn't been nominated without winning. It was one of those things where if he'd been nominated for Farty Pants, the idiot story, he would have won. He hadn't been nominated. This guy's got real farty pants. Throw it on the blank picture of sleep.

He had not been nominated for a while at that point. His last nomination was for The Shawshank Redemption. Wow. Because he made garbage. I mean, no offense to Morgan Freeman, but that was when he entered his sort of deep impact zone where it's like everyone wanted the gravitas you played God in Bruce Almighty

yes and they were you know he did he didn't totally because he made like seven which he's really good and he made Amistad which he's really good he did make occasionally like work with big but he's doing a lot of like the Alex Cross movies he's doing Dreamcatcher.

Anyway. Yes. Well, you gotta be careful with this revisionist history, though, because if you take that Oscar away, then maybe he goes and wins for best actor and leading role in Invictus.

Everyone's most memorable performance. Trevor Noah, I was listening to, he was on, I think, Simmons, one of the podcasts, and he said

Matt Damon in Invictus is the best South African accent he's ever heard in a was on I think Simmons one of the podcasts and he said Matt Damon in Invictus is the best South African accent he's ever heard in a movie I think they gave him an Oscar nomination just for the accent he did like Trevor Noah was like

I don't know what he did but he sounds correct that role is so thankless in that movie because that movie is so poorly written and the only thing that Damon really does

is nail that accent he nails the accent so Stuart Beattie he's Australian. He took a cab. And he thought, what if there was a crazy person in the cab? He writes a treatment. It's called

Crazy Taxi. He pitches it to second. Go ahead and pick your car and driver. That's my impression of the Crazy Taxi menu. I gotta get across town now! Hold on, let's play Goldfinger. Hey, take me to a... It's like Chicken Shack.

You always have to go to some... Pizza Shack! Anything like that. Joe's Fish Hut! Yeah, yeah, yeah! Did you play Crazy Taxi Kitty? No, this is nothing to me. What was it on, Sega? We didn't have Sega. We were a Nintendo family.

Anyway. No, it's called the last domino and then why aren't you applauding hands out like it was a victory the last damage is the worst treatment title so the domino comes out and takes the title away right that's That's the only reason. Oh, really? I don't know. No, no. I just have my name come out around the same time. Domino Hop. The original story centered around an African American female cop who witnesses

a hit and the romance between a cab driver. What the fuck? It sounds bad. But this is, I feel like, a definitive LA movie. Even with my limited knowledge of the city i feel like this is a movie that uh understands the city so well oh can i offer a correction quickly yeah sure i bagged on la in some recent episode i don't remember you were bagging on i was bagging on

it came out people were angry in my defense i had just come from la the city of angels la la land but i was griping about the fact that in LA at Starbucks and all these places we went to, they had these warnings that were like, may cause cancer. Yeah, right. Which is some- About coffee? About everything. Anything in the air.

It's some crazy restrictive law they passed. Well, so that's what I thought. And here's where I've been corrected. Okay. Those warnings are about things that exist worldwide that LA is the only city that's passed laws to warn people against. Oh, shit. Never mind.

Oh, your Spotify's going off. Who are you listening to? Vampire Weekend. The new fella. I am in love with Ween right now and I can't stop. I found a Spotify playlist called Jock Jams. That was my walking

music today are you sure that's a playlist and it's not just the album jock a tape that made its way from 1993 it's things like it's like lose yourself uh black skinhead uh you know like any music that like an asshole listens to in the gym it's essentially what would have been Jock Jams 24. Exactly. Are we back in? I want to say this. Oh, that was weird. That thing that definitely just happened in the studio in real time. Maybe we didn't even sell an ad. Who knows?

And that was even weirder. It was an ad for Jock Jams. It works either way. it was a perfect outro then we have to record an ad that's like hey guys we didn't record an ad but uh

just do something weird and then I'll look correct alright Jamie Foxx Max Durochet yes he's a cab driver he's meticulous

here's the thing I love in this movie you start with him checking the lights you know cleanest cab in Los Angeles here's the thing I love in this movie. You start with him checking the lights. Cleanest cabin in Los Angeles. Here's the thing I love about this movie. I think this is one of the only movies where a quote unquote normal guy

looks like a normal guy. His outfit is so fucking good in this movie. Because I just feel like even when people are supposed to be just like fucking every man, it's like a little bit too designed. Get out of here. That's a movie star.

That's Michael Mann's clothes. This is personal clothes. That's what. Hey, Jamie, you wear hoodies? There's something about his glasses. Yeah, the glasses. The combination of the hoodie and the shirt. Yeah, I mean, Jamie Potterpots is a handsome man, but he's not like he can wear normal clothes.

You'd be like, oh, yeah, he can be a cab driver. Yes. He's just right because you need him to be attractive enough that Jada pinkett smith is gonna give uh him her car yeah right you need him to at least be somewhat like charming in that scene well and that scene is so tricky i mean especially right people more before now you're like oh cab driver hitting on you is like the worst nightmare and that scene plays so well he doesn't he doesn't she hits on him she's got kind he's just got an interesting vibe. And she sort of realizes that.

And you're right. It's so well written. Because at first, they're arguing over the route to take. But it's sort of like a friendly argument. And then it just sort of merges into conversation. Yeah. And you're waiting for him to be like, so, if you're in town for a couple days. And he doesn't do it. Which is smart.

That's how you get testers. I will say, I do think it's an LA thing. When I go out to LA. When I go anywhere outside of new york honestly you talk to your driver oh yeah whereas in new york like that doesn't really happen it's really just not part of the thing but especially in la because if you're driving a car all day you like you feel like you don't exist sure right yeah if that makes sense you know because in new york you're like seeing so much yeah it's crazy and the second you get off your shift you're like in the middle of the city yeah in la i i have never had a lift in which uh a driver doesn't uh attempt to have an extensive

in-depth conversation does that drive you insane a little bit because i will walk into the car with headphones on yeah right sometimes obviously you do not want to have a conversation i will make several serious phone calls oh fuck i guess i gotta call my grandmother now it's the only way out you know you just call other grandmas call her a p hall i literally she is yes yeah she's a former school teacher that's what michael mann said but this is you saying the scene is tricky, it's like another tell that Fox is so in the pocket in this that you just like completely buy that there's nothing nefarious

nor annoying about him. Yeah. He's fussy but that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. And he's not like some like innocent where you don't believe that he can live in Los Angeles. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right Angeles. He's oblivious. Right. But she makes it clear that she doesn't really want to talk. And he finds a way to keep the scene going without going like this fucking guy. And she's so good in this. She is so good in this movie and especially this first scene.

How long after this did she stop really taking major acting roles? Such a shame. Because it wasn't that long. It's kind of rare. She's one of the ones that is handing off from the last movie. She's in Ali for a hot second and she's so good in it. And she's coming off the Matrix sequels where she was like the much hyped new cast edition. The next year she does Madagascar.

Yep. Two years after that she does Reign Over Me, which she's sort of the fourth lead in. Yes. Third. I'd say she's the third lead in that. Yeah. Sure. Oh, it's like REi it's a gm adam

sandler playing uh tim burton yes we've talked it looks like timber now i thought it was like uh it's the one where donald sutherland is the judge goes shut up shut up to bj no um the woman she was in the woman the women oh the women i was saying the women the women that remake of the women that nobody asked for and nobody saw. And she directed a movie called The Human Contract, which I believe we've also talked about in this movie with Poth Vega of Spanglish.

Right. She also had a new metal band. And then after that, it's... Yeah, new metal band. Wicked Prayer? Yeah. Right.

But after that, her next non... Yeah, Hawthorne. But her next non-cartoon role is Magic Mike XXL. Right. Which she's so good at. She's so good in that.

She's on my ballot for that. Yeah, she should have gotten Supporting Actress nominee that year. You know, and then she did Bad Mom,

she did Girls Trip. Like, now she might pop up. I assume she'll be in Girls Trip again or whatever it's called. But it is kind of interesting

and I think telling, she did one of those, I think it was, was it the Vandy Fair or was it an Esquire one where it was like her career, I think she of it or was an escort one where it was like her career i think she did it was for vandy fair that was like my career retrospective and she was going through all her performances and uh she's uh it first of all watch it uh i she's uh an actress i know what you're talking about the one where the actor just sits down and then they're

like uh tropic thunder and then it's like you know no because it wasn't that one that's why i think it was fanny all right fine there are a couple series there's the one like my my big roles and there's one that's like my career in review or whatever yeah whatever the point is uh watching her talk about her entire career made me respect her even more than i already did um but i think uh it is very telling that she has uh not followed up girl's trip with a bunch of comedies she doesn't need to she doesn't have to it's that thing and and when she was like my favorite role i've ever played is fish mooney in gotham and she's like i fought so hard for that i came into the audition with two like giant mastiff dogs and was like you better give me this role and they were like you want to be in

Gotham? Yeah, you can have the role. You can play Batman. Who cares? She talks about Wicked Prayer a lot. As good as she is in things like Girls Trip or in this, I get the sense that she greatly prefers playing a lunatic.

She is so good in this as a pro. on katie talk jada to me i mean she is good at being a pro who you don't forget about like she's like in the very beginning of the movie you kind of know that she's coming i mean i don't like i'm not the best at piecing together plots but it became very clear after a while it's like oh yeah they're killing witnesses i bet that defense k or the prosecutor case she's got is coming up i mean it's it has to happen yeah it's a thriller plot but this is a movie that's lobbing famous people at you, and maybe they're not going to turn out to be a big deal.

That's true. So it sort of has that in its pocket. When Debbie Mazur shows up at the beginning, I was like, fuck, what's going on? I remember watching it thinking, this is like an incredible one-scene performance. They got someone this overqualified because that one scene kind of has to set up the emotional stakes.

And because it's Michael Mann. Right. You need that scene to really have impact. So the twist got you is what you're saying? Yeah, because I assumed that like at the end of his crazy day, he'll call Jada Pinkett and the emotional resolution of the movie will be. So you knew the card was going to come into play, but you didn't think it would be a plot. I thought it would be an emotional payoff and not a plot payoff.

I remembered being genuinely impressed by that because of, you know, the austereness of the film made me believe they could have someone that good sell one scene that hard it's such a good scene it's so good i think it's a great scene i do too and they don't keep cutting back to her so you can kind of like believe that she's out of the world she's a clean out well i mean then right which man really likes he he uses digital photography in this film right he uses it 60 40 in this one yes he says he uses it mostly inside the car because-40 in this one. Yes. Right? He says he uses it mostly inside the car

because he wants you to see what's outside the car. Right. Which, like, on a film camera, you probably wouldn't. At night, with that sort of, like,

infinite depth of field, that's something that you couldn't do. Because he wants you to see L.A. Yes. The commentary is mostly him pointing out every location and being like,

what this is, is this is a bodega on Sepulveda. It's like that. The whole fucking movie. So all the overhead shots, like helicopter shots, those are all filmed? I assume so. I don't know.

A lot of the interiors are filmed. I know this is the nightclub was filmed. Yeah. That scene. Because I watched this on iTunes on my somewhat old television. I thought I'd be able to tell the difference between the digital and the film,

and I couldn't. Because I remember at this point if you shot something on digital it looks awful. I think there's certain moments

that stand out a little bit more as one or the other but it was at the time it was so stunning to be like wait this is a big

Tom Cruise movie and it has shots that look this bad in it. It has shots that look this This looks like a home video. I remember it being

a very unnerving thing it looks incredible I think I think now it doesn't stick out as much because you're just like you've most blockbusters look like this I guess that's what it is

like my eyes have changed right because I remember Public Enemy being the same thing well Public Enemy it's really dry it's more jarred yeah yeah yeah

well also because it's the period the period thing makes it feel really incongruous yeah like the sleek LA streets thing really fits the digital. And that's not, it's just like. Crisp. It is, I mean, you've been buying like the Blu-rays

that Michael Mansky don't have and writing them off. Do you know why I haven't been doing it? Why not? Because like all of these movies, I'm like, I want to wait for that to be like a 4K thing. Yeah, well, that's fair. That's fair. Especially because all these like post-2000 ones

are like so on the forefront. Yeah, so you want it in 4000. Lines of resolution. Yes. Yes. End the episode. That's it. Oh, cool.

Thanks, guys. That was good to see. So, Tommy Cruz as Vincent. We see him pick up his briefcase from Jason Statham. Jason Statham's like, All right, bruv. There's your fucking briefcase in it. Yeah.

Is he a boxer? He's a fucking boxer. Assassin boxer. Box you to death. Are you going to play your music cue? You were pumping yourself up before we started recording. Oh, anytime you want to play that,

that's fine. That's later. That's when he steals the briefcase. Oh, that's true. Vincent gets the fare. He's a silver fox terminator. But he's also very existential. Right, he's a silver fox terminator. Yeah, but he's also very like existential. Yeah, for sure. He's emotionless

but existential, which is a really interesting combination. He definitely wants to talk to Max. Oh, yeah. Like he's ready to chat. He's got a lot of thoughts on the human condition. Well, he trots out that story about the guy dying on the LA subway like right away. Like well before anything has happened. But I mean like

again, so easy for this to be hacky. The sort of existential dying on the LA subway like right away like well before anything has happened but I mean like again so easy for this to be hacky the sort of existential hitman like it'd be like John Travolta and Swordfish

he'd be like opining on God knows what it'd be like some Tarantino ripoff right but in this it doesn't feel like

the movie is presenting it as profanity it's like the movie is going like yeah this guy's that scary yeah this guy's weird like after killing people he just wants to sit in the back seat and being like so what are your life dreams you're never gonna accomplish anything to man the crucial line is i didn't kill him i shot him the bullets in the fall killed him right which is sort of like

a joke but also how he thinks about it but also when we talk about like stories about michael man right a lot of them sound like this character minus the murders. Like Michael Mann conversationally I think is probably pretty similar to Vincent. No bullshit filter, kind of conversationally antagonistic. Well, that's why these actors like working with him, right? Someone who's going to kind of look at them and be like, hmm, do you really want to do that? It's a lot of these alpha males who want to feel challenged by a guy.

It's the Bobby Knight thing of like, they want him to push him so he's got the adrenaline before he goes on the court. Yeah, there's a reason that Michael Mann doesn't work with actresses over and over again probably. Correct. Jada Pinkett Smith. Jada Pinkett Smith. Ah, that's true. Right. She gets in and out and once again. He works with actresses to play

small supporting roles in his films over and over again, not lead roles. But this is like, at this point, the best female character he's ever had in a movie. Probably.

I'm like, well, Madeline Stowe. Yeah, I mean, but anyway, yeah. I think it's important

that Vincent and Max bond over their shared obsessive compulsiveness. Yes. Like, Vincent likes that Max knows the traffic lights, like, basically. Right.

You know, that he's like, this guy's great. But it's seven minutes, not six minutes, not eight minutes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And there's the beautiful thing. You're repeating it because Jada Pinkett, while doing all her work in the backseat, is angry about his sort of know-it-all control of the thing.

They make the bet about it, which is cute. Right. And then it pays off with them starting to bond because he was proven right. Tom Cruise, when he sees that Jamie Foxx was right, is like, you know, like he just sort of like,

yes, 100%. Yeah, he's like a fellow professional. He's not some hapless guy who's being dragged along. He is a pro at what he's doing. He's going to be able to drive that cab around LA all night. It's its own form of a meet cute because this is the one thing and we've already seen the fox pink at meet cute where fox talks about island limos he talks about the little postcard he has he gives her the nice really good yeah um i feel jamie meltwood jada's eyes look up at him that's something that

michael man says during the commentary in their flirting scene. And then Vincent's the guy who, when they're talking about island limos, immediately is kind of rude and gets to the reality of it. Right, that's your big plan. Right, yeah, where he's like, how long you been driving? 12 years. And Vincent's kind of like, oh, okay. I also think it's nice, though,

Ben, this itchy trigger finger over here. Oh my God. I think it's nice that, like, once again, like, in line with the fact that Jimmy Foxx actually looks like a person in this movie, that his dream isn't something completely outlandish. You rarely see people in movies having dreams

that in a movie feel this modest, but in their life feel very consequential. You would think he'd be like, yeah, I'm going to be rich and famous. Like, no like i want to run my own record later better car service yeah right well and that's a monologue from the beginning where he just needs a payment on one lincoln town car and he can't get that so like the modesty of it means that it's not just not being able to do it like he is stopping himself from achieving this dream but that thing i certainly feel with la drivers like you hear them all the time talk about like the limo company they're trying to start and getting the connections, the contact list, you know, the client list.

Right. All of that sort of stuff. Michael Mann and Jamie Foxx sat down and wrote down the business plan for the limo. Cool. Like literally they were like, let's see what what this character needs, how much he's got and how much is left you know for him to actually start a limo company I love that it's like such an art for him to the line about like they won't even want to get out of the car yeah and you can tell

that it's like this guy really cares about this fucking thing it makes me uncomfortable yeah so like see someone like want something like that oh you mean right you feel like bad for him right I feel bad for him the desperation of it is but it it's like effective for him. I feel bad for him. The desperation of it is, but it's like effective. Like I remember feeling

really bad for him watching it the first time. Yeah. But it makes you really care for the guy because you're just like, God, I just want him. It seems like that should be

easy enough to accomplish. Yeah. They go to a stop. Yeah. Max offers him the $600. Flashes. Flashes the money. Yeah.

To let me book you for the night, essentially. And this is when he's playing like full Tom Cruise like shit eating. I'm Flashes the money. Yeah. To let me book you for the night, essentially. And this is when he's playing like full Tom Cruise like shit eating. I'm so in. Assassinate someone. The guy falls out the window onto the cab. Yeah. And then we're off to the races. Right. Help me get this body.

Take the hand. Pour some Aquafina onto the roof. Great. We're settled. Yeah, you kind of get the idea that vincent sort of like likes testing the boundaries of his uh existence you know what i mean well like he wanted the body to fall on the car he could do this better like he doesn't need to take a cab like he could probably get a car like an unmarked car whatever two things we find out later in this movie? One.

He does it all the time. Right. This is his motor supper. He loves to do the cab thing. The cab thing, right? And two, he never meets any of the people he works with directly. Right. Other than his targets, he keeps himself clean, which means he has almost no human connection.

Correct. Because even other hitmen have the people they're like answering to. You know, you watch a show like Barry that's so much about the weird, uncomfortable relationship between like Barry and Steven Root. And this he doesn't, he refuses to meet the Steven Root. So you have to imagine aside from just having like a good alibi, a clean person to pin it on. He also cherishes that like whatever dumb cab driver he gets for the night is the only human connection he has yeah this guy doesn't have a sex life this guy doesn't have a family that he talks to such a professional that he has given up on all of those yeah he's like robert de niro and heat dialed to a thousand where it's like he really has nothing but it's the same thing as the baba shaka henley

thing where it's like how much of this always get his name wrong andy levi boy that was embarrassing um levy i can't remember what you did i did levy right right like eugene um it's that thing where it's like i i think he knows that he's gonna close that loop so the only people he can get to know are the people he's going to kill or who he's going to send to the slaughter to be arrested. You know, so he cherishes the fact that he can actually talk to them. So it's like how much of the Henley thing is him just waiting for the bar to clear out and how much of it is him going? I want to get there early so I can have two hours of conversation with a guy who knows about jazz because I think he genuinely likes that conversation. He loves that conversation.

It's the one killing he shows regret for. you feel you can tell he feels kind of bad the line what a great story yeah it's yeah i mean tc kills the line reading and like i i love it it's so good i re-watched that just that one line when i watch this movie well and that's like the star persona that he's so famous for where he looks you in the eye and you're like i believe anything that you'll tell me like the cult leader thing and he says that in eye and you're like, I believe anything that you'll tell me. Like the cult leader thing. And he says that in that moment and you're like, I do think you thought that was a great story. There's a beautiful thing that when they don't change the eyeline,

when Jamie Foxx gets wise to what's going on, Tom Cruise never breaks eye contact with Henley. And Jamie Foxx is saying stuff to him like, come on, you don't have to do this. You can send him a story. He never looks at Max. And so often the way you would cover a scene like this is you would get a new angle where even if Cruz isn't breaking eye contact, you would get the shot from Fox's POV where you're

watching the guy looking off, not towards you saying things. But instead, you stay in the shot that's like Henley's POV, where it feels like Tom Cruz is staring at you and he is talking to a third person who he's not looking at. And it's terrifying. He's a monster. The man said, I mean, Cruise is very like he's anytime he's looking at something, it's because he's looking for the cops.

He's looking for anyone who's noticing him. Anytime he shoots someone, he immediately checks every angle. When he's going to kill Henley, the only time he looks away is when he's checking that the waitress is gone. You know what I mean? You want him to understand that this guy has cameras in his head essentially. That's how evolved he is. He's got the Terminator Robocop vision. And he's also shooting

live rounds which apparently Cruise had never done before. Because no one does that. But man in the commentary is like it just feels different from blanks you know if you're shooting a real gun the lethal force in your hand. Oh, my God. Also, everyone in this movie who's not Tom Cruise or Jamie Foxx or whoever is some fucking cop or gangster that Michael Mann knows.

The other half of the commentary is like, that big guy over there is like this guy called, you know, Jimmy the Big Shot. I met him making robbery, homicide division. He mugged me, pulled me into an alley, put a knife to my throat. I offered him an under five. He got his SAG card. The Bears. So then if that happens, then when Mark Ruffalo shows up with his... Ruffalo.

So Ruffalo shows up, he's Mark Ruffalo. He's got his like slicked back hair in his earring. Like what are these real cops thinking of Mark Ruffalo? Let me tell you. Oh my God. I'm so glad to listen to the commentary. I'm so excited to get to Mark Ruffalo he's got his like slicked back hair in his earring like what are these real cops thinking of Mark Ruffalo let me tell you I'm so glad to listen to the commentary Mark Ruffalo shadowed an undercover narc called Q for six weeks who apparently looks exactly like

that so he just brought in the photo and was like this is what I'm gonna look like slicked back hair weird sort of soul patchy goatee diamond earring like this it's one of the things I love about this character his gun is apparently like the exact you know Mark Ruffalo is fantastic the fact that this came out the year after 13

going on 30 is just like Mark Ruffalo's career at this point was so strange this was kind of one of his rare serious acting roles in the middle of his romantic comedy wilderness that sort of valley in his career well it was the same year as Eternal Sunshine, but he's kind of cute and charming in that.

Oh, yes, he's very good in that. But the darkness of this is really rare for him. The fact that he's in it, like I've seen Collateral 50 times. Every time he shows up, I'm like, right, right, okay, yeah, I forgot. He's the fourth lead. Right, they wait like 30 or 40 minutes to introduce him.

And then he's sniffing on the, he's like one case behind, one assassin behind them. I remember seeing that he was on the, he's like one case behind, you know, one assassin behind them. I remember seeing that he was on the fucking credit block on the poster, but he wasn't in the trailers at all. So when he's introduced, I went, oh, I guess he's playing another criminal. Like, I genuinely buy. I totally did too.

Which I love this thing where it's like, here's this guy who's gone so deep into this disgusting greasebag character with this gross look and the slick back hair. He's hot. He's hot, but you know. Remember when he was Hulk? Hot Hulk? Remember that scene in Endgame when Hulk and I fucked? Yeah.

That's what people, you know, it's so surprising. People said... People have been complaining about the fact that there wasn't an after credits scene in Avengers Endgame. When there's clearly 40 minutes of Daddy Hulk fucking you. It had an NC-17 rating.

I thought that was weird. He just fucks you and you say thank you a bunch. I don't know. It's nice. Thank you so much. Ben, he's so hot in Endgame. He's really hot. He wears a cardigan. It's incredible. Ben has decided not to watch Endgame

until we do the commentary because like, what are you doing? Also, what does he care? Did you even see Infinity War? The one with Thanos? Where they turn to dust at the end? Yeah.

Okay. So you did see that. Yeah. I didn't see it in theaters. Fair enough. I watch it on a plane. Yeah, I'm like, Griffin asked,

why don't we do a fresh take? I could totally take myself out of the running. You're losing nothing. I'm fine. Hulk is at it in Endgame, though. So in Collateral, yeah, the hitman, whatever, right? Oh, I was going to say, the thing I like is that he's so deep in this character, he walks into this apartment, he's like,

this is the day I'm finally going to catch my guy. And then he realizes the dude's already been pushed out a window. Right. And now he's just stuck essentially in character. Right. Now on an active homicide case. Right. So all the other cops, like Peter Berg and everyone, when they're coming in, they clearly

are like, this fucking guy. Like this undercover dude. This isn't your case. Yeah, it's not. This isn't your territory. And he ends up with the FBI. And the FBI are like, oh, this is big big this is so much bigger than you think but you imagine he's been undercover for months and months and months where he's like i'm not gonna just

leave this thing i need closure on it and so he looks like a fucking like like a mook like the whole movie he looks like a mook and then he gets shot yes oh man a brutal that's incredible and it's such a good i love that like storytelling like sort of knife twist where it's like someone has is on his side and is figuring out it's gonna be okay yeah let's blow him away like seconds you've been that comfort for 90 seconds like but you figured that's where it's headed and then tom cruise is like no i'm fucking terminator right but not only that when tom cruise shoots he's like, I got that annoying guy away from you.

Come on, let's go. It's like your worst friend. There's the scene after, you know, so after the first killing, he zip ties Jamie, Max's hands to the wheel to do the second assassination. And the two guys hassle him. Ben Hosley and Ben Hosley Jr. show up. The Hosley brothers. Being like, hey, man, what's up?

What, are you zip-tied to your calves? Oh, weird, huh? Oh, too bad. I'm taking your money. It is kind of an incredible. Oh, doop, doop, doop. When he's like, give me your wallet. And he's like, I can't.

My hands are tied to the steering wheel. And he goes, do you hear me? I said, give me your wallet. Clearly, you don't hear me. Right. But the, that's. i'll give you a moment vincent shooting them where he you know the tap tap head yes and then like he gets the other guy two taps and then as he's like going to pick up his bag he gets him in the head yeah he's he's

got a style not even looking at them just looking at checking his sixes he's got a signature yeah it does seem like someone should have heard those gunshots. Like, I don't know how criminal L.A. was in 2004, but, like, there's a lot of people right around the corner. That's true. No one's walking. That's the other thing. Yeah.

Someone, he's more, I think he's more checking to see if someone's, like, calling. Yeah. Your fear would be someone calls it in. Yeah. But at that point, you're gone, I guess. Right. But then there's the,

it happens right before this, when Cruz makes him call his supervisor calls in oh that's that yeah the supervisor scene but there's also the cops right we should talk about that uh richard uh t jones richard t jones he's an exceptional actor he's in uh judge and amy which uh i amy brenneman i did heat with that was michael man's explanation for who he is. And then the other guy is a real cop. Okay. Yeah. Who arrested Michael Mann. What if that's Michael Mann?

The only reason he makes movies is like, shit, I need seven roles. I've been promising him all over town. Right. Anytime any criminal or cop has him in a corner. It's fine. I'll create a TV show called Robbery Homicide Division. Everyone can be in it.

He calls his agent. He's like, give me a script with 87 speaking parts. I've had a rough week. The Bulls. The Bulls. The Bulls. It's not a curveball. But yes, no.

The cop scene where Tom Cruise is like, here's your test. Let's see how good you are. If you're any good, you'll be able to. You're a cabbie. Talk yourself out of that ticket. Tom Cruise is like, here's your test. Let's see how good you are. Like, if you're any good, you'll be able to. You're a cabbie. Talk yourself out of a ticket. And he's like, here's the threat. I'll fucking shoot these guys. You've got limited trunk room. You've got limited trunk room is a great way to put it.

So there are two ways out of this. Either you're talking them out. Or everyone is dead, including probably. You got two more bodies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. They get off just by a lucky break, which I love because then when Fox does have to go into the club, you're like, he can't pull this off. He's already failed hard.

Yeah. He tries to use the nice guy argument where he's like, come on. Well, so his argument with the cops, he's like a deer and you're like a deer? That's your move? And he's like, yeah, they're around here. I really, I was like, I don't know much about L.A. He said like Mulholland, like it's up in the mountains. Like they have mountain lions there.

And then, yeah. His windshield is so fucked. The cop should be like, excuse me, I don't care if there's been a shooting at like 8th and La Brea. We're staying here. There's a body in this trunk. You can't drive around. I, not having seen this since it came out, went, what do they do about the windshield? Like I was like, do they get a new car?

Because surely this movie can't have a broken windshield the entire time. And it does. I mean, I drive around in New York City. Like, you know, you see cars where you're like, how is that thing on right now? You know, like, I mean, some people just drive around in these things.

Yeah. But there's the cop thing. And then the supervisor calls up Louis De Palma and complains about the fact that he heard there was an accent because the cops called it in right before they were thrown away to investigate. It must have been one of Cruise's homicides, right? Yeah. And Tom Cruise gets, like, such fucking joy.

Yes. In annihilating this guy. Yeah. In just dragging this guy to pieces. Right. And Fox's hands are literally tied he can't like pull the phone away from him he has to say whatever he wants to say but it's also this weird aspect of cruise where it's like he knows the law that well right you know they're all these

subjects that he clearly just like well he's so confident that he can just argue anything right and you're just gonna go that's another tom Cruise thing. Even when he's playing this scary guy, he's like, yeah, okay. What if an assassin got in your cab and he was a psychopath and he had to kill all these people, but he was also a super charming movie star? He had the charisma of Tom Cruise. Right. But also, he might kill you, but it would be very charming

that he killed you. Very likely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As you die, you'd be like, that guy was charming. That would be your last word. Alright, the boss thing makes about like the the big thing that i don't think is a critique but i wanted to like bring up in the context of all this because you watch as the movie goes on you watch max kind of slowly turn into vincent like imitate him and like step up into it and it feels like there is a level of saying that that's him stepping into like masculinity like what it is saying about vincent as a man and then max as a man and he's kind of like he can get up

and he can save the woman and he can have the shootout. And I think it's not uncritical. It's critical of Vincent, obviously. This guy's Terminator, he's scary. The movie is right. It's not positive on him. And I don't love man-up movies in general. I feel like it falls into a little bit of the man-up

thing, especially when Jada Pinkett comes in at the end. And I think especially because it ends so abruptly after that point. But my argument against that is the ending which is not like Jamie Foxx confidently stalking away but him and Jada like hugging each other looking so frightened like sort of stumbling through the streets and the man's like that's it I would agree that's the one counter is like that was terrible Michael Mann thing is the triumph at the end of a movie uh is going to break that person for the rest of their life yeah like almost every michael man movie ends with having watched so many of them

they definitely are gonna go on a date now right i don't think their date would be very good it would be like anyway so what do you do do you remember the assassin yeah he was in the building right he cut the power but almost every michael man movie ends on a note of just like and what are they gonna do the next morning yeah right you know like how do they wake up and feel about themselves even if they quote unquote one um so but the the mom yes oh yeah instant response to hearing about his mom right the henley scene we've already sort of talked about we talked about fucking good and i love the distinction in his question isn't where did he study right it's where did he learn

to play music so Henley's so confident that Juilliard's the answer but a guy like this is so particular about the distinction he learned from Charlie Parker right but you know that he's gonna have the wrong answer no matter what oh of course right because he's testing this guy's perception of the world it's not about his knowledge of facts

he's got to shoot it's about how he perceives things. Although when Henley's like, you know, I walk out of this club, I'm going to be so gone you'll think I was dead. You're like, that's right. He's good. Oh, yeah. What did man say about jazz? He fucking talks about jazz for like 40 minutes. I figured. There's just something about the jazz.

Vincent was a countercultural kid is man's take on the character. Okay. Whose dad was strict and authoritarian. Right. But his dad having grown up in the era was probably into jazz. It was probably like one of their one intersection. Sure. Like man talks about that for a while.

He talks about all kinds of shit. He talks about how like. Damon Wayans. You know, like this is in gangland territory. This is actually a border between this gang and that gang. Like he's, oh, he's, he's a dork. Yeah. You know, like, this is in gangland territory. This is actually a border between this gang and that gang. Like, he's a dork. Yeah. You know, for that shit.

But I could just tell man loves jazz. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love that scene. I love that scene. Irma P. Hall, come on, the mom. The mom. Right.

This is Tom Cruise's, like, best acting. Right. This is the second call from the dispatcher. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That Fox goes to his mom every single night. And Vincent's like, you got to do that. The routine. What are you talking about?

Like Fox is like the second you came into my car with a loaded gun, my routine was disrupted. And Cruz is like, no, the routine is more important now. He's like, what are you talking about? We can't throw them off. But also he says that thing like she carried her in her room for nine months. He looks at him like a maniac. Get her flowers yeah right and uh max brings the flowers she's like why did you get me flowers she's being a pain in the ass and then he's like vincent you know got the flowers and she compliments the flowers and you see tom cruise just gets so excited yeah you see

vincent like so stiffen up and like pay attention he's not paying attention at all he's kind of like whatever like let's get this over with he said his mother died before he can remember her it's what he said he grew up in a single parent household with a father who did not get along with who was abusive so you imagine this guy was like spent his childhood fantasizing about what it

would be like to have a mom it's a little as Katie might point out uh retrograde he's like a mama's boy he's a mama's boy so he's sort of like a little like henpecked in that sort of weird way

and Vincent's like you know didn't have a mother that's why he lacks a soul but I also I mean as a mother that's right I mean you are imbuing your child with souls yeah you're raising aing your child with a soul yeah otherwise they'll turn out you're raising a couple maxes

yeah yeah a pair of maxes in a world of vincents um no the other thing I was gonna say though is that uh

I think uh Cruz's big thing isn't man up it's like stop lying to yourself like Cruz is fascinated by these like

these lies that people tell themselves yeah this. This, like, neat categorization, easy answers. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's like, he's the only one who sees the world clearly. Yeah. And so the thing he doesn't respect is that he's lying to his mother and that he's lying to himself. But, like, what

Max sort of correctly responds with is, like, you don't have to deal with my mother. I have, like, a complex human relationship with her. Yeah. And Vincent's like, I don't understand what you're talking about. The whole thing is he's impressed with Max the second he realizes that Max is that good at being a cab driver. The moment he loses respect is when he's like I'm not really a cab driver. This is just to fill in the gaps.

Right. So he's like be a pro with the thing that you were doing. There's nothing wrong with your job. Yeah. There's something wrong with the fact that you're telling yourself that this is a part time temporary short term thing. But as Irma Hall is distracting Vincent

Max grabs the briefcase runs away. Now what is his plan here? I have no idea. He's just being a maniac. Yes. You want to play it? This is my favorite music cue.

I was just getting It is so upsetting because when he starts running I'm just like this doesn't help you. Where will this go? Right. And when he throws it over the overpass and you see all the shit fly running I'm just like this doesn't help you. Where will this go? Right. And when he throws it over the

overpass and you see all the shit fly out I'm like fuck. Yeah. James Newton Howard score. It's incredible. Ben's just playing it up. Should it just play through the rest of the podcast and make it feel more intense? Yeah that's definitely not a copyright issue.

You can play 30 seconds of anything. If we talk over it which is what they say in Hollywood Handbook, the bots won't pick it up. Oh, yeah, okay. So we're totally fine. So then this is- We just have to talk the whole time. This is the sadistic prankster element of Cruise,

is he doesn't, like, he responds with, like, bewilderment that Fox would do that. Which is fair. But then right after that- You are screwing up my work! Right. But then right after that, he's like, okay, cool, so this is an opportunity for me to test

you again. Right, right, right, right. And what did you think he would have a backup plan? Like, when all that stuff came out of the briefcase, I was like, kind of surprised. Like, I figured he would have, like, stashed it away and thought ahead of it. Do you think this movie is what made people go like, wait, what if there was a digital cloud? Yeah, Steve Jobs saw this movie

and he was like, this is no good. That was his takeaway. No, I think that if Vincent needed to, he could go see Javier Bardem or whatever. Or he could probably, but yes, I think you're right. He's like, now I have one on you. Rather than just execute you, which I could totally do. I think this is another reason that he's a crazy taxi boy, is if things go wrong. Go ahead and pick your car driver. Right. If things go wrong, I have another person I can

throw to the slaughter. Yeah, oh, absolutely. I don't want, if everything goes wrong, that I have to walk in and face Javier Bardem. Of course, because Javier Bardem's scary. He's scary and uncredited. Can we talk about how beautiful he is in this movie? Cool. He's a handsome man still, but I think of his face as like Mount Rushmore,

like all these angles. And in this, he's like, his face is so soft he's rounded I think because of the haircut yeah and the beard looks really good on him the fact that this is like three years before

No Country for Old Men just feels insane it was and I remember when watching the movie I didn't know that he was in and out I was like this is gonna be someone right

like this will be some star he was not in the marketing he was not on the poster I'm surprised it was him yeah not that he was a nobody at that point. He was an Oscar nominee, but he was, you know. He wasn't doing many American films. No.

He spent six weeks learning how to speak with a Mexican accent because he's Spanish for two days of filming. Wow. That's another Michael Mann. Does Michael Mann inspire this insanity in people? Does he do the work to the point that they're just like, oh yeah, well if you did the research, I'm going to embed with a undercover cop for six weeks yeah that's probably part of it right

this is why david air keeps getting big people to do his movies because david air is still a guy who does this right even when the movies are shitty he's like we're gonna go live in the mountains or yeah we're gonna go live in a tank and cut out our own teeth we're actually gonna commit suicide as a squad right together right but that's why he had this run of like schwarzenegger pitt will smith twice that these guys like like these these big movie stars who never hear no and i think have a complex erroneously that they feel weird about the fact that they do a job that can seem kind of fanciful and that they're pampered and that they put makeup on

to like play people who are like tough guys with guns right so their sort of insecurity about their own perceived lack of genuine machismo then has to be like supplanted by like a tough guy asshole dad like basketball coach director

who's like fuck you I'm gonna make you eat dirt for two weeks. And then they're like, he's a real artist. For Fury, they actually all got furious. They got furious. So furious. Shia LaBeouf did pull out his own tooth on that, right? He did. And he carved his face.

Like, that was like. I mean, Shia doesn't need that. Like, he does not. He needs a nurturer. I hear all the stories about that cast on that movie and their weird game of one-upsmanship for who can go longer without showering. Because Ayer did that whole, I want you guys to be fucking dirty.

You're going to live in this tank. You're going to know how to repair it. And so Shia did. He pulled out his tooth and cut his own face in the makeup trailer because he was like, I'm the most intense. And they're like, you're playing like a nice Christian boy. You're the chill one in this group. That movie sucks.

All for a movie that kind of sucks. The first half is pretty good. Yeah, all right. So we like the Javier Bardem scene. Do we like the Black Peter? Well, it's all about Fox. Fox is so good. The arc of this scene alone is incredible.

Tell your guy to take his hand off his gun before I beat his bitch ass to death with it or something like that. Where you think he's about to blow it and then he sells it hard for the first time. And he just becomes so incredibly still and confident. But even from the walk up with the bouncers. I'm Vincent. And he can't say Vincent without stammering. He can't

even sell it in that moment but by the time he gets to the back room he vaguely can pull it off and by the end of it he's fully believable. And this all means that the point we get to the nightclub uh in koreatown we've got jamie fox and vincent we got max and vincent yeah we have the guys he's trying to kill we've got the latin mob the mexican mob ruffalo who have been sent to watch you've got ruffalo who's hooked up with the fbi right uh bryan bruce mcgill as you like Who are trying to figure out what's going on. So everyone converges on the club.

It's great. That's all. And it's like a beautifully executed action sequence. And the moments from Vincent, even before he starts shooting and he's just breaking people's necks. He gets so intense. And he's like, yeah.

It's so scary. And they hold it kind of for a while too and in just that moment but also and i believe this is a flutterbox uh um banner but like when he shoots the guy who's about to kill max so sort of saves him and then like shoots him that look this look so good yeah you know just for a second this is the first movie to own tom cruise's no i'd say magnolia also does this owning tom cruise's scariness yeah right the scene where he shuts down in the interview of magnolia is the first time where it was like oh someone would be intense push tom cruise to yeah that point kitty do you like the action yeah oh yeah in fever so what i kept thinking of in the club scene which is dumb because it came after you like the action sequence yeah oh yeah in the club in Fever with the Oakenfold music what I kept thinking of

in the club scene which is dumb because it came after but like in Killing Eve had the big club scene in the first season where you've got like her mentors

like getting killed like the bodies are too close to it it's not really shot in the same way but the idea of being in a room full of people like that

and A like having an it's very frightening to think about how many people it's very scary and then having a clear action sequence in all of that

is madness hey let me give you a little advice a little trip advisor here if you're afraid to think about how many people it's very scary and then having a clear action sequence and all of that is Madness let me hear a little advice a little trip advisor here if you're afraid of being in that kind of room Don't check in for a stay at the Continental Hotel. I Hear John wick is a frequent guest And proprietor not that docile either. Rogues and killers. It's crazy that we have to delete the episode and start over. It's hard to describe Griffith's face right now. He's very proud of himself.

Go to the bar to unwind, you might end up more wound up. Yeah, he's like an animal that's proud of himself. It's a good action scene. Also, they don't accept credit cards only gold coins that is true that is true they only accept the old continental hotel oh boy oh yeah what do you do when you want a tip at john wick you're like another coin yeah do you have change for a gold coin like. I love that the gold coin is a universal currency. Everything costs one gold coin in the John Wick universe. It's like, it's a favor. It's I owe you a favor.

It's like that as currency. It's an artisanal I owe you. Yeah. You know what we didn't talk about before with the briefcase? Tom Cruise running. Just a little bit. You gotta see him run. Love seeing that boy running a shoot.

It's the greatest special effect in Hollywood. It is. I love it. There is one clear, if you ask me, heir apparent to the Tom Cruise running on screen. Cynthia Erivo.

Yep. Definitely. Just incredible. I feel like we maybe had a Twitter interaction about this. I mean, I've been thinking about it since Windows. I mean,

that scene in Windows is breathtaking. We saw Windows together, Katie, at the Roy Thompson Hall. Oh my God. And I just remember us walking out of there and just being like, that was so good.

But don't you feel like Christopher McQuarrie has to be writing a part for her? Sure, do it. Right? Oh, put her in A Mission Impossible. That's great. Holy cow.

That's great. Have her sing too. But you go like, they're both like similarly tiny, compact, obsessive, focused, freak of nature people

who can run like a car. Yeah. Yeah. Can run like a car. Could you imagine a fucking foot chase? I'm all for it. I'm all for it. Why are you stopping this from happening?

I'm sorry. I hear Cynthia's bad news. Don't work with her. Runs too fast. She's busy. She would probably outrun Tom and that would that wouldn't work. She'd have to slow down. But I feel like this is his thing, though.

He's finally making these movies where he allows the women to be more powerful than him. That's true. Yes. He casts really good female leads now. But he has to break his foot in order to look less powerful than them. I would love for her to be the villain of the next Mission Impossible and beat him on a foot chase. That he gets the lead and she catches up to him as opposed to the usual. In the film Collateral,

did you see it in theaters? I forget. I did. I saw it in theaters. Summer of 2004. I remember it's a loud movie. This movie, the gunshot,

I mean this scene, the nightclub scene, the gunshots are so freaking loud. They're upsetting. Yeah. He wants you to, right, yeah,

flinch. But he does kill the guy, Lim. Who directed this movie, Michael Mann or David Flincher? Oh, boy. David Flincher oh boy David Flincher

Ben's thinking it over David Flincher so after that Vincent shoots Ruffalo brutally yeah

brutal the signature you flinch again can we backtrack really quick I just want to shout out I love when highway overpasses are in movies this is a out, I love when highway overpasses are in movies.

This is a great LA movie. Yeah. More highway overpasses, please. Okay, sure. Yeah. I agree with you. It's cars on cars. On cars.

So many layers of cars. This crazy spaghetti soup of a city. You know, when I painted graffiti, I used to climb across that, like hanging over the highway, and then bomb. Or paint. Or paint. As the layman would say.

I just learned something. I didn't know that bomb was a graffiti slang. Yeah, it is. Ah. What was your tag, Ben? I can't say. I can't say. We tried to get it out of him.

Should that be like a 10,000 goal? Some of it's still up. Yes. And then you have to pay his bail when he gets arrested for it. No, I already paid a lot of money for being arrested for that. So the I already paid a lot of money for being arrested for that. So the Patreon money is going to

go pay you back for all the bail that you put up. Yeah, kind of. Yeah. What if we find out that Ben was caught and for the last 10 years has been working undercover as an informant? Like Catch Me If You Can style where he's like, I know this tag. I'm part of the buff squad. He's gotten us on. Which is

a division of the Port Authority that has detectives and has a whole crew of people that are invested in finding graffiti artists. They call them the buff. What if it turns out that seven years ago, Ben made a deal? I can't believe that's not a TNT show. The buff?

Oh, yeah, the buff. What if it turns out that seven years ago, Ben made a deal with the police, and this entire podcast has been him trying to trap us into admitting to our crimes on mic? That's right. I totally used to shoplift Smarties from Waitrose. I don't know.

Okay, shut it down. We got him. All right. They've been on the trail. The shutters come down. We never found out who stole that one bag of Smarties. Who's a tube? Okay, Bramley.

All right. We got him. After he kills Ruffalo is the emotional conversation ending in a crowd. Like, is that. Is that the sort of pivotal scene? Yeah. Yes. Where kind of, right?

Where Max makes his move. His second move. Right. What if I crash? He's got nothing to lose. He speeds up. He knows it's over. Right.

Vincent gets out fast. Oh, I should. We gotta say before the LA club scene, before the club scene, is the coyote scene. Oh, yeah. Right. Where Vincent sees himself in a mirror.

He cites that as his big like this is why i wanted to shoot on digital is because like uh we didn't have to hire a coyote and plan it we just filmed every night and i knew eventually we'd find the coyote michael manson's that happens to him all the time they just follow him yeah right well you think he's their spirit guide this was the same summer where there's the weird like Jake Gyllenhaal like has a moment with a wolf in Day After Tomorrow and my friend

and I joked we were like is this just the summer where everyone needs to have a moment where they see themselves yeah and some sort of grizzly man was the next summer right yes yeah yes close what would be your animals guys my animal? Yeah. Like a cappuccino monkey?

What's that? Like a cappuccino monkey? A cappuccino monkey? Yeah, like a cappuccino. Is that like a- I know what you're talking about. Like Marcel on Friends? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, his cappuccino. Did you hang out with Russ Geller? Yeah, the monkey on Animal Practice, NBC. Oh, yeah. Probably the say monkey. I look up that monkey a lot because I will never make the amount of money that that monkey made per episode. I'm going to be like a big rat or like a badger.

Katie? I was thinking about like David is frustrated with this. I need like the animals that build like underground dens and don't go out much. Badger is one of those. Yeah, I was thinking about badgers. I can think Hufflepuff animal is a badger. Like, yeah, it's a strong Hufflepuff, but like not the kind of badger that like fucks around and attacks people.

That's Ben. What am I? What am I looking at? I'm looking up what Crystal the monkey's quote was on animal practice. Because she had a big run. She was also, I think, the monkey. No, no, wait a second. I just realized what you're doing.

No, no, shut up. The coyote scene rules. Look, then what happens? Crashes the car. They crash the car. Jamie Foxx is great. What do we think of this scene? He doesn't talk.

What else you got from the monkey? I can tell you want to tell me. It was the monkey in the Night Museum franchise in Hangover Part 2. Right, right. It's that monkey. 24 years old. It was the highest paid monkey in Hollywood. So it's still alive?

Still alive. Played Annie's boobs in Community. I don't know how long a monkey lives for. Probably a while. They're like us. They're humans. Probably lived for decades. I don't know.

Okay, the number was not as high as I remembered it being. But it's still very high. How do you feel about giraffe? $12,000 per episode. Because they eat plants, they're chill, but they're big. That's what I was thinking for you. Oh, for me? Yeah.

Yeah, okay. That's cool because I'm tall and gangly. I am giraffe-like. Yeah, friendly. Yeah. Black tongue. And you do have a black tongue. I'm so glad we both went there.

Yeah. And it's crazy to see me have sex it seems insane with the Hulk specifically weirdly they just like air it like a nature documentary though he's doing it again I don't know

because the crash is when he realizes that Jada is the next target. But he only realizes that after the crash. Well, because Fox is going to let himself be taken in. Because he's like, thank God. I've been looking for a cop all night. But then he sees Jada.

He sees Jada. And the cop sees the dead body in the trunk. So he's like, you're under arrest. Yeah. And he doesn't try to talk his way out of the arrest. He uses brute force. But then he sees Jada. And he apologizes to the cop.

Right. Oh, that's funny funny I forgot about that yeah and then a classic movie problem low cell phone battery he's trying to warn Jada in time

and no signal until he gets up to the top of that parking garage but it's so cool and this is the other yeah the digital photography thing where it's like you can see her

in the building you can see the lights lit in the building and he's like one like overpass away or whatever the fact that he's managed to get all the way back down to the building that You can see the lights lit in the building and he's like one like overpass away or whatever. The fact that he's managed to get all the way back down to the building that she's in.

Alright, that's fine. I need an LA expert to tell me if the geography in this movie makes any sense at all. I don't know. I know Koreatown is not far from downtown. Koreatown is near downtown. I know that too. Griffin, you know, don't you? You love Hollywood. I know the layout of Disneyland pretty well. Where's Sebs in relation to all these places? Yeah, Sebs is there. The heart of Hollywood. It's another day of sun, you know, don't you? You love Hollywood. I know the layout of Disneyland pretty well. Where's Sebs in relation to all these places?

Yeah, Sebs is there. In the heart of Hollywood. It's another day of sun, you know? City of stars. Do you know about that? We could start a fire. Do you know that Lionsgate is starting an indoor theme park in Times Square that they say is going to have a John Wick bullet ride amongst other things?

But there's going to be like a madman themed bar they should make sebs they should make sebs yeah they should then that's linescape yeah you're right they should do it um they should do a john wick one it's they're making a bullet ride what else what else is lines expendables twilight no stay away from that one peter malark's Bakery from Hunger Games. These are real things I'm fucking telling you. There's one other franchise. That's what they thought the people wanted from Hunger Games was a bakery?

I swear to God this is real. It's called Lionsgate World. You're going to turn down a bakery? Yeah. I mean, it would be cool to see Josh Hutcherson, that's his name, right, in real life. I've never seen a one foot tall man before. Well, he needs a job, so put him in that bakery. He's dropped off his resume. I don't think they've made any final decisions about hiring yeah i was gonna ring the joke bell for you okay thank you um the end of this movie is very frightening and very good is very scary when he's not talking to anyone yeah the thing

about max that's different in this part is he's no longer bouncing around with another guy. He's just in full I will destroy mode. You mean Vincent. Vincent, sorry. I always think that Tonker's called Max. Yeah, no, Vincent. That's what I mean. He is scary and knows everything and what

a cool looking law library. Good set. I like the Chinese containers in the one room and she's gone to the other office. You know, all that. He knows she's close because the Chinese food's fresh, but also he sees the light blinking on the conference phone, so he's able to discern which room she's in. Which is cool. I like when people solve things.

Yes. That is all true. And he smashes the power with the fire axe. That's scary. And then Max gets him with the gun, but Vincent doesn't even think he's going to shoot. Nope. And then he shoots him,

and blood goes everywhere from his face. That's how Fox is able to stop him, is that Vincent has so little belief in Max's ability to murder a man. Sure. Do LA offices have subway access

in the basements of them? I guess it must exist for them to put it in this. There must be some of that because like there's no street access. I mean there is. I know.

But no one walks on the freaking streets in LA, right? Like how do you get into this? It's cool. I love the subway in this movie and in any thing. New York has that do you get into this? It's cool. I love the subway in this movie. Oh, yeah.

And in any thing. New York has that with like office. There's also office. It's so weird. It totally exists in New York. You know, I thought they all just had the parking garages. I almost every time I go to LA, I find it very difficult to figure out

where to enter the building. Oh, yeah. Because they'll send detailed instructions for like any like appointment I have. But the instructions are just where to park and how to get from the parking lot into the office that you need to get to. I tried to walk to the Soho House in West Hollywood with Richard Lawson one time before. Because we were at an Airbnb very nearby. And we walked and we go to the front door and it's an office building.

And they said, oh, you have to go into the parking garage and get to the elevator. We were like, what? They did not know what to do with us. Well, you know my classic joke. Los Angeles is like the Disney Pixar Cars franchise except with less human veins. I'm not going to ring the bell. That's what Collateral's about.

So, David Flincher, this now. Griffin is sinking into his chair and sort of stretching his arms in either direction and patting the table very strange yeah

I love that the end of Max he's I mean Vincent he's fully robotic at that point yeah you know when they're shooting each other in the train car right is that he goes to get the cartridge and he can't even hold on to it anymore. Right.

He doesn't realize. And that's when he realizes. And he's like a robot shutting down. He just sort of like... He sits down. Yeah. Sits. Yeah.

It's the first time Tom Cruise ever died on screen. And in, like, New York, it makes sense that this movie would end in a subway car shootout, but you would never believe that it would go unnoticed. In L.A, it makes perfect sense that no one's on the subway and that he probably won't be discovered for a week. As he says in the foreshadows in the beginning.

I guess Tom Cruise dies like a zillion times in Edge of Tomorrow. I guess that's the movie where he dies a lot. That's the second time. I know, I know. I'm just wondering about other movies where he dies. Yeah. Well, I mean, he died off screen

before Interview with a vampire kind of yeah undead well said thank you good point yeah not a joke don't ring the bell ben that was a very serious point ben was diving for the bell we had to pull him off of it he's got rug burn slid all the way to get the bell so collateral that's the movie it's great and it's a masterpiece and i love it and it's one of my top movies of that year and i love it katie did you like the movie collateral i do like the movie ladder i don't know like i feel like there's a like i've seen many other michael man movies and all of them i've seen and said yes i appreciate that this is why we needed you know you needed a not a dude i mean it's a boy movie like michael man makes boy movies he makes movies

about and it's not about masculinity in the way that like I famously really like Foxcatcher because it's a movie that's very explicitly about like You do famously like Foxcatcher. You are Foxcatcher's biggest fan. No one else ever thinks about Foxcatcher. And this is about masculinity but kind of in a lighter way which in some ways I like but it's also like some unexamined stuff I think about like

if you want to step up and become who you really want to be you got to pick up a gun and shoot somebody. Which I'm not opposed to. But I think it it's in there in the text and the movies about other things. But it makes me not have the emotional grab with it. Because I love that that story. And for a movie up until the point where you pick up a gun. Yeah.

I love a movie about like, how do you become the person you actually want to be? And it's not like Jamie Foxx's real problems are not solved by this. It's not a movie about them solving each other's problems, but I'm no more confident that he's going to open his limo company. No. Right. They're ruined. Yes. And David loves it. This movie made

$101 million at the domestic market. This is one cruise you could not make less than 100. Yeah. 217 worldwide. I would do anything for a movie like this to make 101 million dollars

now. I know. As much as I like cannot fall for it the way that David does like this level of like incredibly well made thriller

Yes. that doesn't feel long it feels straightforward and contained like and with stars. That's the other thing it's nice to see like a summer action movie that like makes someone a star and contained like it's my stars that's your thing it's nice

to see like a summer action movie that like makes someone a star and also like fully warrants an oscar nomination for acting and like just lets two people talk to each other in a car for a long time so which of the 2004 fox oscar nominated performances do you think is better because i this right 100 i mean the rate performance is pretty great. Incredibly impressive. And the singing is good and it's one of those great... But he doesn't do that much of the singing. He does some, doesn't he?

He does very little. Wow. He filled in some of the stuff. He can do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you did it on Gold Digger. Right, but that was like... He said to Kanye,

he was like, you know I didn't do the singing in the movie. There are a couple of things where they didn't have the audio tracks and he did it. I'd say that movie's 95%. Interesting. I didn't do the singing in the movie. There are a couple things where they didn't have the audio tracks and he did it. I'd say that movie's 95%.

Interesting. I didn't realize that. Now let's play the box office game, please. Collateral opened to $24 million on August 6, 2004. Real crowd pleaser. Number two was a film we've covered on this podcast. On this podcast? On this podcast.

A film I like, but audiences were not so fond of. Oh, in 2004. A famously large drop. Famously large drop. So it came out in its second weekend? Correct. It came out... One weekend ago. Late July.

Late July. It came out... Dropped 68% in its second weekend. But it still managed to crawl its way to $114 million. Does crawl a clue? No. How much was the first weekend?

50. 50. And the second is 16. Big drop. That is rough. It's almost like this film had bad word of mouth bad word maybe because of its ending oh they were just a dramatic head twist what is it katie is it the village that's right a great movie that was a huge drop yeah yeah uh number three

is another adult another one of those adult thrillers that you were talking about. It is the second in a series that is now five films deep, including a spinoff. At this point, we're five. Yeah, at this point. No, now, today we are.

It's a present day. But this is the second movie. Right. This is the second one. They're five, including a spinoff. It's an adult thriller. It's 2004. It seems there will likely be no more, maybe.

Probably. You think it's kind of done? Yeah. You never know. 2004. Give me the numbers. It's made 124 in three weeks. It's going to make 176. Oh, it's born. So it's a...

Born... Supremacy? No. Oh, it's Bourne. So it's Bourne. Supremacy? No. Katie. Oh, it's that one? So it's Identity, Supremacy, Ultimatum, Legacy. Okay. And then Jason Bourne.

Do you know a fun fact about Griffin? Nerd. True. I have only seen one Jason Bourne movie. Guess which one it is. The Jeremy Renner one correct you thought it would be a clean entry point guess what new guy

new guy this is a clean entry point Oscar Isaac we like him he's in the beginning of the movie hope he sticks around number four is a movie we're going to cover on the podcast coming up mentoring candidates that's right!

Oh dang! Starring Denzel Washington and Hillary Clinton Oh wait it's Meryl Streep Another movie that would never be released in the summer by a major studio Well it wouldn't be made Good movie. Never seen it

No I look forward to hearing you guys talk about it You got the sweatshirt from it. I did. Adam Drozen, I hope I'm not mispronouncing that, who's a blankie, came to a tick thing in LA and gave me a David-sized promotional mentoring candidate sweatshirt. But you've always wanted.

Now, on the last episode we recorded, which I don't think was last week's episode, we talked about a movie that didn't exist. Number five of the box office is another one. Another masterpiece of not existing. Another masterpiece of not existing. Another film. Give me the numbers.

20 is the domestic total gross. It's opening to seven this week. It's a rom-com. That's not a good opening. No. Can I take a guess? Yeah. I want to guess this with no further hints.

Little Black Book? Correct. I knew that because I was reading the collateral box office reports before I came in here. Have you ever been tempted to look inside his Little Black Book? Brittany Murphy, Holly Hunter, Ron Livingston, third build?

And Kathy Bates, right? Derek Simon, britney murphy holly hunter ron livingston third build and kathy bates right uh uh derek simon uh one of my oldest best friends uh referenced on the show a lot uh when he was uh in film school at myu uh his roommate vj had the little black book poster on his wall. Why? It was like a Brittany Murphy thing. He was, anytime anyone came over, and they were the guys who always had tequila, so people would be coming over for the pregame before the whatever, he would always be like, you really should see this thing. It's got a crazy twist.

What's the twist? He told me the twist once. Can I tell you? Yeah. It's referring to his Blackberry, right? It's that specific a time. Oh, I assumed it was like an actual book. No, I think it's the joke is like, you know, our little black books are now Blackberries.

The superstructure of the movie is I think this story is told. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. I think the story is told largely through flashback with the superstructure being that Kathy Bates is hosting a Sally Jesse Raphael type show. I take it back. It's the Palm Tungsten Sea. Wow. Woof.

Look at this thing. There's a picture of it in the Wikipedia entry? That's correct. Does it still have a stylus at that point? I don't know. It had 64 megabytes of memory though. Hello. And a vibrating alarms and an indicator light. I don't know. It had 64 megabytes of memory, though. Hello. And vibrating alarms and an indicator light. I don't remember the specifics of the twist,

but the movie is told, I think, through flashbacks of this show where they're airing out their grievances as a couple, and in some way at the end of the movie, you find out that the show was staged, I think as an excuse for him to propose to her. Uh-huh, yeah. So you're watching what you think is a dissection of the relationship falling apart, but then it isn't. I don't know.

So it's like a Jerry Springer had a twist where it's all been like this together. Right. In a romantic move. Vijay loved it. Okay. I just want to say one thing about the director of Little Black Book, Nick Hearn. His follow-up was a film called It's a Boy-Girl Thing, which was a body swap movie

in which a boy goes into a girl, and vice versa. Is it Kevin Zeiger's Samara Armstrong? Correct. Now, that film came out in Britain, actually. For some reason, I think the OC was so huge that they released it in Britain. I still think that

Seth Cohen picked the wrong one. We can talk about that another time. Incorrect. Summer is better than Anna. Yeah, they're the one true pairing. I don't know. One true pairing with the parents. Oh, well, yeah, obviously. The Coens. There's too much attractive people on that show.

Listen up. Made $7 million overseas, okay? What film are we talking about? It's a boy-girl thing. I want you to tell me how much this film made in the united states of america it's a boy girl thing it's a boy girl thing griffin's looking at his phone it's a boy girl figure out the twist oh who fucking cares $250,000 lower one $16,000. $16,000. Lower. What? $200.

Higher. $8,000. Lower. What? Two. Katie was close. Katie was close. $400.

Up. Keep going. $700. Keep going. Eight. Keep going a little more. $9,000. $848. I've never seen a box office total like this.

Wow. It made $848. It made like a paycheck. You know, like. Are you telling me. You did not cover craft services. Exactly. Are you telling me that Black Cat grossed a thousand it's a boy girl

that's it that's our show folks i was hoping the number was gonna start with an eight that was my prayer i don't know if he knows i kept guessing eight because i wanted so badly i'm looking up i'm not gonna read i'm just saying this twist is incomprehensible it's it's awful i looked eights. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good call, good call. Because I want it so badly. I'm looking up a little black book here. No, no, we're done. We're done. I'm not going to read. I'm just saying this twist is incomprehensible. It's awful.

I looked it up too. Yeah. All right, we're done. Katie. Yeah. Hi. I'm so glad I came on this show. Me too.

I've been listening to the Patreon episodes. It's been in my head. It's how we keep in touch with each other. Oh, yeah. We listen to each other's podcasts. I mean, isn't that what friendship is? That's what friendship is. Listening to each other's podcasts?

That's what friendship is. Listening to each other's podcasts? Exactly. I'm wearing a Black Bank can't jump in Hollywood shirt right now. That's what friendship is. Yeah, what are they up to? Jumping. I mean, IRL. I mean, they listen to the podcast. I feel like they're working on a TV show or something. They're working on their own TV show. They're working on separate things. Yeah. Great. Yeah.

James Third's gone Hollywood. They're on Forever Dog. They're on Forever Dog they're on Forever Dog which is a great podcast network they have some cool shows it's a great show we haven't talked about them in a while yeah

they're the best yeah they're great I mean they've been on the show a bunch yeah we endorse them and you know who else has been on the show a bunch

hey Catherine fuck I forgot your middle name Hasty Hasty Rich one away from the five timers Chloe I know

it's exciting I knew when I moved away from New York I was really going to slow my progress down we tried to stay on the ball making sure you're still in the game I'm not giving up

you mentioned Patreon I thought of a 5000 call we all have to get tattoos nope it's the porch no it's the porch thing it is the porch thank you all for listening we can't let Ben pick because he's like

we do acid and then I drive a bus to fucking Calgary or something I know a guy called World we eat needles I have to talk again

because David Ehrlich was on the show at some point a while ago and failed to mention the podcast that I do with him and I got so mad at him plug your podcast so Plug your podcast.

So we talked about Little Bold Men earlier. That's Vanity Fair. We can do that. Griffith's been on recently. David's been on recently. There's also Fighting in the War Room, which is another pop culture podcast with me, David Ehrlich, Matt Patches, and Dave Gonzalez.

That's right. It's a good show. There's one thing in common. I used to listen to it, and then I met Katie Rich, and it was like meeting a celebrity. I remember you being starstruck at trivia. So fucking starstruck. I genuinely remember David's having me going,

that's Katie Rich. That's Katie Rich. That's David Eruck. I genuinely remember David's having me going, that's Katie Rich. That's Katie Rich. That's David Ehrlich. I know them. I mean, I listen to their podcast. I went to trivia like such a small amount of times compared to you guys. But it really is like where everything began.

It was. It was the cauldron. Yeah, and I was. It was the cauldron. I'll say a commonality between your two podcasts. In both cases, we've had three of the four hosts on the show. I know. We have one more to complete in both cases.

Dave, come to New York. Yeah. Yeah. And Mike Hogan. Yeah. Bring him in. We should have Mike Hogan on. We should have Mike Hogan on.

That would be funny. For sure. What's a good Mike Hogan movie, though? I feel like I want him to do After Hours. I want Mike on some 80s New York movie. Yeah. Get him talking about Gen Z stuff. That's what you need.

What about a fucking early Demi? Like a Something Wild or something like that? Not a bad idea. Not a bad idea. You said After Hours. Mike Hogan is busy being the digital director. Yeah. But yeah.

Yeah. Listen to Fighting in the Worm too. And thanks for having me, guys. Oh, please. Our pleasure. And we got to get Charlie on the books. Oh, yeah. Charlie's got to come back.

He's verbal enough. He can talk now. When are you guys going Charlie's gotta come back. He's verbal enough. I mean, he can talk now. When are you guys gonna do the Sing episode? I'll say this. I mean, once we're done with these Marvel commentaries, knowing me, there's a good chance we're gonna cover some animated franchise at some point.

Sure, well, Toy Story, we've talked about that. Which is his favorite Cars? Well, Cars 3 is one on Netflix. So that's kind of the easy way out. Yeah, well, look, out. He's been watching Fantastic Mr. Fox lately. So these podcasts usually run about two hours. What do you think Charlie can manage? 20 minutes before he goes crazy?

If you're showing the movie in the background, you never know. It could work. Cars 3 is short. Oh, yeah. Cars 3 is good. I've heard a tale about Cars 3. There's a rumor. Unsubstantiated. Just make it the as always. Yeah, complete. Cars 2 makes Cars 3 look like Cars 1.

Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thanks to Andrew Goodall for our social media, Joe Bowen, and Pat Reynolds for our artwork, Lane Montgomery for our theme song. Go to blankies.red.com for some real nerdy shit. Go to TeePublic for some real nerdy shirts. Patreon, where we're currently doing the Marvel commentaries.

Very soon we'll do the Cars trilogy. And as always, Cars 2 makes Cars 3 look like Cars 1. I'm just going to keep saying it. Cars 2 makes Cars 3 look like Cars 1. You can say it in Spanish now, too say spanish now too bring the bell