Blank Check with Griffin & David - Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon with David Ehrlich

Episode Date: August 12, 2018

David Ehrlich (IndieWire) joins Griffin and David for an in-depth conversation on 2000’s Wuxia epic, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Together they examine the sweaty nature of the Police inspector Tsai and his daughter, eye performance, cave life and share James Schamus stories. This episode is sponsored by WeTransfer.

a timeless story of strength secrets and two warriors who would never podcast. That's the tagline? Yeah, that's a weird tagline, right? Who would never what? Kiss? Surrender? They would also never podcast. I think it's fair to say.

They would never podcast. They would track. That would be a good podcast, though. There's one scene where you think they're almost going to break into a podcast when they meet in the little shack with the great square window. Yes. And then they don't. They're going to join the Sert when they meet in the little shack with the great square window. Yes. And then they don't. They're going to join

the Serté podcast network. Right. And Chow Yun-Fat asks... I did it! I'm out! I'm not topping that! David is walking out of the studio. Sorry, David.

Wait, come on. You still have another David. All right, all right. Blank check with Griffin and David. There is that scene where Chow Yun-Fat realizes it's the princess and not the Jade Fox. Right.

And he offers to train her and also asks her who her guys are. Who are her guys? Who are her guys? Lock the sword. Hello, everybody. We're going to lock the sword today. My name is Griffin Newman. David Sims.

This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. We're hashtag the two friends. It's a competitive advantage. We're the only two friends who do a podcast together. True. And what is that podcast? Blank Check with Griffin and David. What's it about? Filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their career and are given a series of blank checks

to make whatever crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy passion projects they want. Like this one. Like this one. It's crazy. Sometimes they crouch. Sometimes they hide, baby. Yeah. This is a May series on the films of Ang Lee, and this, the May series is called

Broke Pod Mountaincast. That's it, right? Yes. We keep forgetting. We keep forgetting. It's something like that. And this is Crouching Podcast, Hidden Podcast.

Sure. The Crouching Dragon, Crouching Podcast Hidden Podcast? Sure. The Crouching Dragon. Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon episode. Right. Crouching Tiger Hidden Cast. Is this still his most... Ben just shook his finger. No, no, no, no, no.

No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. No. Is this his highest grossing film? I feel like this, Life of Pi, and Hulk all ended up very similar. I think Life of Pi grossed a fair I feel like this Life of Pi and Hulk all ended up very similar I think Life of Pi grossed a fair bit more than this

I'm going to guess that this is his highest grossing adjusted but I'm not sure if it's highest Hulk grossed 132 this grossed 128

Life of Pi grossed 124 very similar but worldwide no that's domestic worldwide I think it's Life of Pi worldwide it's definitely

Life of Pi was crazy huge worldwide it made 609 this made 213 worldwide Hulk made 245 worldwide uh oh but yeah so those are Justice League numbers

that was that weird thing though that we discussed Justice League wish it got those numbers Justice League in 2003 got those numbers to be happy when we did our Bartman Begins episode and we looked at the overseas and like overseas Batman Begins, I'm sorry,

Bartman Begins did a hundred million. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just like not until 2007 did movies make that much money overseas

other than weird examples. There were weird like... Even later though, yeah, it's like Captain America 1 tanked worldwide. To think of that now like a marvel movie not appealing like to the whole world like and they were they did that

whole like first avenger thing to try to like couch it and thor was like viewed as this massive success because of how well it did overseas and it did like fine it did fine it did like what a movie opens in china too now right it. It did then what, like, I don't know, Tomb Raider is going to do now. Yeah, Tomb Raider is huge in China. Did you see Tomb Raider? No, I did not. Raid to Tomb. I like it. Did you see it? I liked it a lot.

I liked it. This is hot off the presses for an episode that's coming out in June. So I was going to go see Tomb Raider last week for I was going to a press screening and Griffin was like ah, fuck, I really want to see Tomb Raider. I thought it looked like a Gentleman's Six. I had a feeling it was going to be a Gentleman's Six. I think it's solid.

David, I think it's solid. I got a feeling it's solid. I walked out of there. I thought it was close to solid. It looks like it's aspiring to a Gentleman's Six. You, you texted me. I said, I, it's a Gentleman's Six. Did I?

I think I said Gentleman's Five. It's more of a Gentleman's Five. Did I? I think I said Gentleman's Five. It's more of a Gentleman's Five. Let me check the text. People have been waiting months for our Tomb Raider takes, despite the fact that you published a Tomb Raider take. I did publish one. It's true. And my review was like, it's fine.

Okay. You said, in all caps, it's pretty solid. Pretty solid. Yeah. You didn't give it a Gentleman's Number. Then you asked about the puzzles, and I said that there were four puzzles, and one of them is good. Okay.

So here's the thing. This is what, yes. There's like one puzzle that is. This is why Tomb Raider gets an automatic Gentleman's Six for me. There's a moment where, as if it's the most obvious thing in the world, Alicia Vikander as Lara Croft is like

hitting things on a wall and then goes Oh my god. It's a color puzzle. Hand me that tombstone. Yeah, she's like, blue and yellow, green.

Like, literally that's the Eureka moment. We all know what a color puzzle is and it's like, rotate that hearth wheel. If she had just been like, I saw this shit in Ocarina of Time, I would have seen that movie.

I would love to see Ocarina of Time with her. She's great. The reason the movie is okay is her. It's like a franchise where I could see the second movie being exponentially better than the first yeah maybe someone

else could direct it yeah and maybe like a good director maybe like producer Ben producer Ben I thought we weren't doing the names

poet laureate the hob Mr. Positive Mr. Positive we're thinking about dropping the nicknames we're thinking about dropping the nicknames

what do you think Gerlich I'm gonna tell you right now on behalf of the entire community people listen to you that's a fucking awful idea also also uh eat drink ben woman oh yeah i told you to bring that fire right we also i mean my my b team level one was the wedding banquet but too subtle too subtle. I'd go to a wedding banquet. I also like it. I like eat, bend, drink costly. But no, in all seriousness,

I will torch this place to the fucking ground if you guys stop the nicknames. Our guest is David Ehrlich. Of course. Of IndieWire fame. Your guest and arsonist. Of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull fame. Right. But I want to say something

because David's with us for the third time. Three Timers Club. Three Timers Club. Three Timers Club. Last two times you were on the podcast you had not listened to this podcast. This is true.

And then not long after I was mostly here out of pity. Not untrue. And your pity was appreciated. Noticed and appreciated.

Here's how I remember it. We went to your wedding you got married. I did. Last year. Congrats. Humble rag. We were all there. Humble r it you we went to your wedding you got married i did last year congrats humble rag uh we were all there we went you got married then you went on a honeymoon with your your beautiful wife to japan uh so you were and you were gone for a bit and then you were back and i was back we were at a screening of spider-man homecoming he was back baby back. And I saw you in the line for the bathroom and you said, like, I listened

to your episode. I can't remember which one. It was funny. And I was like, oh, thank you. And then I walked away and I was like, Ehrlich's listening in a blank check? We finally got him? Took him two guest appearances? The hardest listeners to land are the ones who have been on the show twice.

Always the hardest. Yeah, no, I... I'm trying to get Sonia really badly to listen. She definitely won't. Maybe she will. I have fallen deeply and passionately in love with this podcast. Right, and then since then you were coming up to me like, I can't believe how rude I was to Ben last time.

I was like too dismissive to Ben, but Ben is now, you know, like a religious figure in my life. His importance in the canon. In the firmaments. Sure. And yeah, no, I am religious figure in my life. His importance in the canon. In the firmaments. Sure. And, yeah, no,

I am now honored to be back. I'm deeply resentful of the hosts who are outside of this context, good friends of mine who have been here more times than I have. Damn. Wow. I have an Arya Stark-like list of who they are, and I will topple them one at a time. So you're going for that five-timers club.

Oh, five? Five? Or 25? Five. of who they are and I will topple them one at a time so you're gonna for that five timers club oh five five or twenty five you're looking to post Baldwin numbers I just I listen to all the episodes

at home and also speak into them at the same time and it's a little you're the Rupert Pumpkin of Blank Check apparently you will like

because because you you got in late, you'll sometimes, like, very excitedly tweet us about a joke or a take from something we said. You'll hit us with some, like, Speed Racer shit or whatever. You'll, like, tweet in response to something else we're talking about and then go, like, by the way, your opinion on Blank is criminal. Right.

There were some hard times listening to the Cameron Crowe cast, but I will say now that I've listened to, I think, every episode that I care to anyway, that I'm honored to be here for, and this is some movie trivia for you all and for everyone else who's listening out there. Some fun facts.

Up there with Jerry Maguire broadcast news catch me if you can Crouching Tiger is the best film you guys have ever done so that's

that's just the truth I should do that sometime like rank the movies we've covered oh and also Almost Famous fuck you

yeah thank you I've been working on that list on Letterboxd but I haven't made it public yet i'm trying to write all the blank checks yeah well i just uh made your work a little bit easier so you're saying you're catch me if you can you mentioned jerry mcguire was there another one

broadcast news broadcast news yeah i'm trying to think uh huh well i mean we've done like for you it's like robocop right i mean robocop's my favorite movie we've covered. There's Under Siege 2. Under Siege 2 is my second favorite. Fletch. Clifford. Oh Clifford for sure. Yeah right. I feel like Broadcast News is probably my number two behind RoboCop.

Seems plausible. Is Jerry Maguire your number one? Possibly. The Weight of Water. I mean I like like Star Wars. It's a good movie. Yeah I mean well hey don't not Wall-E or Elixir. I've not listened to the Star Wars guests but I did listen to the Star Wars. It's a good movie. Yeah, I mean, well, hey, don't. Not while our looks are on. I have not listened to the Star Wars guests,

but I did listen to the last Jedi. Oh, you should listen to them. We're at each other's throats in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, Ben. Hi. Hi. All right, Lauria, Peeper.

Oh, no. Tiebreaker. Birthday Benny. Soaking Wet Benny. He's our finest film critic. He's not Professor Crispy. No. He is the fuckmaster.

Yeah. He's a meat lover. He's a fart detective. True. If you see himy. He is the fuckmaster. He's a meat lover. He's a fart detective. True. If you see him on the streets, wish him a hello fennel. Graduated certain titles. Such as producer Ben Kenobi, Kylo Ben, Ben I. Chomelon, Ben Say Bennything dot dot dot, Ailey Ben's with the dollar sign, Warhaw's, Purdue Urbane, Ben 19 the fennel maker, Robohaw's,

Benglish. I don't fucking know. And Mr. Ben Credible. Yeah, I guess so. And eat, drink, Ben Haas leave. Eat, drink, Ben Haas leave. So what dark thought would have inspired you guys

to consider doing away with the best part of your podcast? Here's the answer. I get no enjoyment out of doing it anymore. It's a fucking marathon. I find it very stressful. Yeah.

Like there's a thing like I'm pretty good at memorizing dialogue, but whenever I have speeches that have, like, specific technical details in them or, like, names of companies or whatever, there are, like, scenes in the tick where I'm, like, trying to put together the mystery and I'm like,

but the Armenian lab was blown up four days ago and Dr. Blank and Blank... Right. And I just would always fucking fail to get the details right if it's not about the language and the rhythm of it, but it's about hitting those specific things. And I have now gotten to

the point where having to list off the band nicknames feels like that for me. Well, it'll make you a better actor. I guess. It's good. It sort of keeps the show in your mind, though. Because when you do his names, you have to remember all the miniseries we've done. There's that nice element. There's some history there.

If it's not paralyzingly stressful, it's not worth doing. That's the mantra I live by. My life is paralyzingly stressful. You two are my friends who anytime I see either of you, and I see both of you often, I'm like, what's up? I love when Griffin talks about how tired

he is on the podcast because I'm like yes so tired and yet I'm the one who audibly yawns on this podcast all the time okay you want my impression of us talking

I'm going to play you you're going to do the response that you just did right okay hey buddy what's up what's wrong with you come on

that's a great impression right that's what you always do come on what's wrong come on it's great it's great that's David's response to me. Right? That's what you always do. Come on. What's wrong? Come on. It's great.

It's great. That's David's response to everything. It's just, it's great. I listen to the show on Monday mornings on my commute into work, and I hear how tired Griffin is, and I think to myself, at least I'm not on the television show. Same, bro. Oh, yeah, sure. Well, no one should make a TV show. We all know this.

This is a fact. Can't wait to go into season two just mere weeks from now. Hopefully when this comes out, you will be done filming. And if you aren't, then there's been an issue. Yeah, let's put that in writing right now. Yeah, on the record.

On the record, I should be done filming by the time this episode comes out. But that's why we're recording these so far in advance because it's like this is where we're trying to, this is what we think the bank up point needs to be to make it through filming. It is December 9th, 2000. We have just come

from the opening night of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. We synced up this miniseries perfectly with the release of a new Ang Lee film. Crouching Tiger came out in Lincoln Plaza Cinemas

on December 8th, 2000 and I got on a train from Connecticut to New York. Saw it, saw it, thought, hmm, brought four friends or so, went home, went to sleep, woke up, got on a train, went to New York. Really?

Oh, yeah. RIP Lincoln Plaza Cinemas. I know. Why were you so pumped to see Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon at the age of, I'm going to guess, around 15, 16? 2000, yeah. Yeah, I just turned 16. Yeah.

I don't know. I was a refined gentleman of taste. Were you an Ang Lee fan or was it like you just knew this was... The Ice Storm really moved the needle for me when I was 14 years old. You joke. The Ice Storm did really move the needle for me

when I was 14 years old. The film's not far from my house. I saw this movie opening weekend in Britain. So I don't know when that was that's weird because I'm sorry Ben it's true I understand that Ehrlich took a train to see the movie but why would you take a plane all the way from New York to Britain

I didn't take anything except for the Northern line whoa I blew out the mic too how would you even get to the station I took the Northern line two whole stops to go see it at the Camden Town Odeon okay but David I have to slow you down. Once again, you would have to fly to England in order to even get on. Not if I

lived there, baby. Would you have lived there if you had known that Crouching Tiger would have come out later? Would you have lived there had you known that you would have to wait, I would imagine, a few months longer to see Crouching Tiger? I mean, it wasn't my pick. I'll be honest with you.

It's true. I would rather just be in the U.S. of A. When your parents told you you were moving to the U.K., did you go, but when Ang Lee finally makes his Wuxia epic, I'm going to have to wait three stinking months. Now I want to know how long I had to wait. Now I'm looking at it. I don't remember anything about how i came to movies um i knew i

was into like akira kurosawa around that time this was also a very hype movie yeah i mean i think i just saw because it was a hype movie i don't think i had seen an ang Lee movie this was my first thing we movie unquestionably like i definitely hadn't seen ice storm or ride with the devil i was aware of ride with the devil though oh my mom had like made me watch sense and sensibility when i was sick that was one of Ride with the Devil though. Oh, my mom had like made me watch Sense and Sensibility when I was sick. That was one of those like if you want to watch a movie,

you have to watch a classic. You have to watch something that's like highbrow. I might have seen Sense and Sensibility. Anyway, it was 5th of January 2001. I took my friend Josh who was always a hard sell.

He never wanted to see any movies. Josh shat his pants at this movie. Yes, for sure. Like he was always like someone I had to really talk into

seeing any movie. Took him and when it was over, he i had to really talk into seeing any movie took him and when it was over he like turned to me and his eyes were shimmering and he said thank you for bringing me to this and he loved that movie and like well bought it on dvd and watch it every week so i saw it with my dad happy about that yes i saw my dad i believe i saw it at the regal ewok i want to say okay after, probably like a month after it had come out, when it was like really building a head of steam, heading towards that Oscar season, you know? And we both disliked it.

You both disliked it? Yes. You saw this movie, you were probably pretty young. I was 11, I think. Sure. And my dad and I were both like, what's the fucking deal with that thing? Wow. I was still pretty.

You two sound like bad people. We were really bad people. And I watch this now and I was looking for like, okay, I can get why I didn't like that at the time. Like I was ready to be able to find a prism through which I could understand what didn't work for me. And I couldn't even really get it. Like why, what my objections were and i even remember like six months after the fact being kinder to the movie than i was right after seeing it when you were 11 and a half yeah much more mature but hadn't seen it since then and in my mind already vividly remembering it knew it was a good movie wait so

you you didn't see it since then no but it's crazy in my mind i was like yeah crafting tiger very good film like it was like my perfect recall. But it's crazy. In my mind, I was like, yeah, Crafting Tiger, very good film. It was like my perfect recall of the movie started playing better in my mind as time passed. Did you like it more this time? Yeah, it's a really fucking good movie. It's an incredible movie. Some say it's the best movie you guys have ever covered on this podcast. Well, tied with Broadcast News and Jerry Maguire.

Some say. Ben, Benjamin. Yes, sir. Did you see this movie? Yeah. Like, did you see it back back when yep i remember seeing the trailer and i was like floating yeah actually what yeah yeah i honestly think that's where the movie lost me at the time i think i was like as an 11 year old who was starting to get like fucking hoity-toity about film i was so literal minded where i was like but

they don't explain why they can fly like i remember that being like a deal breaker for me the first time you sound like a bad person yeah i'm not arguing against that why would you need justification for floating now i watch it and i'm like why isn't every character floating in every movie i remember a great point i remember my dad i came home and my dad was like was it good and i was like yeah it was great and he was like i hear they just like, they'll be like fighting with swords. And then one of them will just walk up a fucking wall. And I was like,

yeah. Yeah. And he was like, that sounds great. I genuinely, literally, he was just like, that sounds great.

They just walk up the wall. I genuinely had that. It's like a Jim Araquai music video. That's what he said. That's Ang Lee's chief inspiration. Every time they just like float a little bit, like they jump a little higher, stay up a little higher,

do the wall move. I just be like, why do other movies worry about gravity and physics and shit? This is so much cooler. There's not even a scene where they're like, it was great when I learned floating. But as an 11 year old, I was like,

show me a flashback to flight school. Although, you know, parsing who can fly and who can is sort of important to appreciating the characters and dynamics. And this brings me back to the very first movie review I ever wrote that set me down this darkest of dark paths. Okay.

Uh, for my high school newspaper was about Crouching Tiger and Dragon. Some bullshit about like the characters believing in themselves and flying. I'm probably going to paraphrase a lot of the shit that I said when I was today. No, the answer is only the characters who have gone clear are able to fly. This is a Scientology podcast.

They copped that on the audio commentary. Yeah, clear check. Sometimes they're clear and sometimes they bounce, baby. Sure, don't want them to bounce. Alright, so there's a context, guys.

Ang Lee made Sense of Sensibility. Big hit. Big hit. Got some Oscars. What about that but with flying? Well, no.

That's true. Yeah. That's true. But before he made that decision he was like what if I make like the most depressing movie ever made?

Was that going to work for everyone? He releases it, gets good reviews, everyone hates it. Move the needle for Griff. No Oscar nominations. Right. It's weird that movie got no nominations i feel like it was in the running for a few and just sort of like yes the morning weaver is fucking it was in

the running for weaver uh i love that but even that feels like such a slam dunk screenplay kind of nomination movie you know you're right yeah yeah i don't know uh i love that film but we've already talked about it this one right right with the devil uh right that's no that's a bounce such a colossal flop huge so but he makes this so quickly after that i wonder if he was always gonna do this it does feel like a bit of a like let me get back to my shit you know what i mean like you know like let me let me like recenter let me hit go back to zero it doesn't feel like this movie is reactionary but this it also feels like no one had the expectations of this movie being an international play even though it required literally every country on the planet to come together to finance right right right but i think

i imagine it was gonna come out in america i don't think he saw it being a hundred million dollar movie no i just think i think he was like this is one for me you know not that right for the devil was one for them but he's like let me just flex some muscles get back to some different things you know uh as as you say um columbia pictures put in a little money uh sony pictures classics put in a little money. Sony Pictures Classics put in a little money. Good Machine. They're still around. James Seamus. Hong Kong, China, Taiwan. Like, everyone's putting money in there. There are stories about how fraught it was trying to get all the pieces in place while they were doing pre-production.

Really? Like, this movie almost didn't happen even after it had all been laid out. It sounds like a really intense shoot, too. Ang Lee's in interviews is very like, I didn't sleep for a year, basically. Yeah. Yeah, and like, we were saying this right before we recorded,

but the four main actors in the film did not speak the same language with the same accent. Right. Right. Yes, they do not. Right. Not on camera, anyway.

Right. But also not in life. One of them is essentially speaking lines phonetically. Right. Right. Yes. They do not. Right. Not on camera anyway. Right. But also not in life. One of them is essentially speaking lines phonetically. Right. One of them, which is, who's Michelle Yeoh. Right.

Chow Yun-Fat is speaking with a horrible accent. Yeah. I mean, not a horrible, but like he has a Hong, he's a Hong Kong actor. He has a Cantonese accent. Zhang Ji speaks Beijing Mandarin,

essentially, like what these movies sort of usually require and chang chen is taiwanese i think he has like a taiwanese accent so yeah apparently it sounds absurd right if you have an ear for this and michelle yo said that she didn't uh take any jobs for a year because she knew the level of preparation this was going to take physically but also that she wanted to be able to speak Mandarin convincingly which she didn't have

any fluency with and yeah she did learn it phonetically she was saying that she doesn't know how to read Mandarin they had to spell it out phonetically for her it's interesting that he made that move but I guess they're all huge stars Michelle Yeoh and and chow yun fat and chow yun fat had i mean to think

in hindsight it's hard to remember this being the case or see it being true but he had never done a martial arts period film like this before right he was a huge action star but not in this yes he's of course your john woo you know uh action star he was more of a modern action star but also i think this movie is like a very like, it was not even like him making a safe. It was like him reviving a sort of an old, it's like making a Western or whatever. It was like, oh, you're

going to make that? Those can be kind of cheesy. It was like if somebody made a Western, but it also was implicitly built to and engineered to appeal to a worldwide audience as much as it appealed to an American one. Yeah. Right.

And it was like, it's so much about the putting this movie together and negotiating with the plot and all the various tropes were going to be was about satisfying audiences, you know, around the world, which is a really difficult balancing act. And this movie weirdly did worse relatively in the East than it did

everywhere else. Right. It was not hugely popular. It was popular. It made more money in America than it did overseas. I was doing some Googling and I found articles from the year 2000 where they were like, why isn't Crouching Tiger doing the equivalent level of business? It is not as beloved in China as it is everywhere else.

I think the other reason I had a block with this movie when I was so young is what you were saying, that it was kind of like a dead genre at this point to do this sort of very earnest Wuxia epic. But there was so much parodying of these types of films

in pop culture, and I was such a parody kid that I couldn't understand how this was more high art than the sort of things that I was seeing parodied. Are we sure about Wuxia? My tendency is to throw a little Mandarin spit on there and be like

Wuxia. I don't know. I'm not good at this. I'm coming at this from a place of profound ignorance. Well, here we go. I'm just going to Google it. I mean, that's the thing of this. You know what I'm saying?

You know how there was so much just like mocking of like wire work? Well, there's like scary movie this year. Right. There's a lot of Matrix mock. And obviously this has the same action choreographer as that movie. Yeah. Yeah, because this movie is playing in a milieu that is inherent to King Hu movies and Musha, like the classics. But at the same time, the sensibility that Yung Wu Ping is bringing to it is a lot more modern.

It's the same sort of balletic fight choreography you'd find in Iron Monkey or something like that, from the Donnie Yen films, the Jet Li films from the 90s. So it was sort of a lot of things that that audience had seen before put together in a package that no one had ever really seen before. And Ang Lee is bringing a greater emotional depth to it. Oh, yeah. They're each bringing something to sort of like elevate the film, the genre to levels that it hadn't really been at before. You want me to play on this? Oh, yeah.

Wuxia. I'm hearing a hard X. I'm hearing an X. I don't know if I trust that random YouTube video that I found. You would trust me more than some random YouTube video? I'll go with the YouTube video. If I can be honest, I'm scanning the studio right now for Jamie Kennedy because I feel like we just got X'd in here.

Oh, there he is. There he is. That old trickster. Oh, boy. So... Do you think it's the first time Jamie Kennedy has ever been mentioned in context with Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon or not? No, definitely not. He saw it.

Yeah. So you think someone else is like, Jamie saw that, right? I think someone at the Low Century City 15 in the year 2000 was like, yeah, Jamie Kennedy came to see Crashing Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Mr. X himself. I thought he was X-ing us. He was buying a ticket for Crashing Tiger and was going to sneak into the end of days instead. Is that Malibu's Most Wanted? Hey, this was a pre-Malibu's

Most Wanted era. Malibu's Most Wanted would never have happened without Crashing Tiger, Hidden Dragon. He was very influenced by it. It's a straight line. Doesn't Snoop Dogg play a mouse in that movie? I've seen that movie and I don't remember.

I think he plays a mouse or a rat. Is that like it starts talking if someone smokes weed? Yeah, probably. And then he sneaks under their hat and pulls their locks of hair. Remember how in... Makes them be offensive remember how

Keanu the cat talked like Keanu Reeves because it was Keanu Reeves' voice but like that didn't work it was literally him

it was him but it sounded like a bad impression it felt like the movie being like check it out and you were like that's Keanu right

like you it didn't like you were just sort of annoyed by it I don't know remember after Keanu came right? Like you were just sort of annoyed by it. I don't know. Remember after Keanu came out, everyone was like,

yeah, I guess, I don't know, Jordan Peele might not have a career in movies. Did you see Keanu, David? No. You're silent. Okay, fine. Forget it.

Keanu's fine. Anna Faris is unbelievable in that movie. Yeah, I don't agree. You don't agree? I hate that part of the movie. I think that performance is funny. That movie got the most

tepid response out of South by Southwest of all places. Which is hard. And I hate that part of the movie. I think that performance is funny. That movie got the most tepid response out of South by Southwest of all places. Which is hard. Oh no. There's no chance. It also just felt like that movie was gonna work. You were like, oh yes, 100% the Cam Kiel team should do an action movie. And then it's called Keanu.

Everyone was like, ha! I love it. I also know a guy named Keanu. Yeah, right. So Crouching Tiger, I love it. I also know a guy named Keanu. Yeah, right. So, Crouching Tiger, he makes it, comes out, does great.

David just closed the large leather bound volume. You know, I would say that I don't know if any other movie, I mean, and all the ones I can think of are like,

you know, brand, spot on brand favorites of mine that announces this quickly that it's a stone cold masterpiece and does so against the black screen with music uh so you're you're sold from the opening credits the opening title is we are like amazing not even the opening credits i'm talking like fucking the void pictures here and i was like fully erect. Let me be fair,

you were young. Yes. It was easy. A lot of things had that effect on me at the time, but especially this music. No, but then just the, the,

ah. That's what that's saying. I can go shot for shot. You want to do like a 10 hour? Yeah. A 10 hour? Okay. Couching Tiger,

hitting dragon. First shot, that dude smoking, staring at the camera. It's pretty awesome. He does a lot of interesting like and I feel like Ang Lee does this a lot in many of his films but very much

so in this one he gets so close to the coverage being POV shots like it's off by like a couple of degrees but so often you're really kind of staring the characters head on while they're in conversation with other people. There's some funky eye lines in this movie.

Yeah, but it works. Like, it's somehow... I always prefer people who shoot from inside the conversation because it makes it feel more dramatically engrossing, I think, than when you're getting over-the-shoulder shots.

But distance is so critical to this movie, the distance between the various characters. That's the other thing. Uh, like they, uh, you can tell right from the beginning when, uh,

Lee Mubai shows up and that woman gets so excited and she runs over to, to Michelle Yao and she's like, guess who's here. And Michelle Yao has to be like, okay. Okay. Cause like everybody knows they're super horny for each other, but they can't say it to one another no but they can say things to each other like you know over time

but it's like hour two stuff this is one of his great bottled emotion movies which is like a big running like you say it is sensibility sensibility with a magic sword that's that's how he pitched it to michelle yo to get her on board was he said, do you want to do Sense and Sensibility with flying? I mean, yeah. Why not? But then it's also like

marrying the sense of sort of cultural traditions that he's getting at in his first couple of movies where it's like these people can't express themselves because it's like unbecoming.

There are expectations of how they should be living but really it's more about people who just want to well that's the thing but also just want to fly he shows up my favorite thing go on no i'm just gonna say there's a whole scene that they cut of chow yun fat staring into a mirror like paul rudd and wanderlust and that's the one scene that's all in english yeah it's very bizarre he's just got the sword in his hand but he's like holding it between his legs yeah james shamus and engley actually didn't talk for two years after he cut that he's very upset um he shows up so we're in we're in

beijing yeah that's the opening movie chow yung fat comes in it rolls into town he rolls in and it's like hey what's up and he's like know, I went searching for enlightenment and I just felt an endless void. So that's what's up with me. What's up with you? Right? Like that. Isn't that? That's like the beginning of the movie, right?

She says that and she's like, what's up with you? And she's like, works all right. Yeah, right. I don't know. I got the studio. Right. And then she's like, but you're the best. Can you just power through it?

And he's like, I don't really care. I don't care enough anymore. How's the enlightenment thing? I feel surrounded by endless sorrow right oh is that is that enlightenment i don't think so it's like he reached the end of the road and realized that his feelings for her were the only thing that mattered in his life right he so he's like clint eastwood right like he's like the greatest warrior ever he's been up to all kinds of shit this is based on the fourth book in a five book series yeah so there's been like three books which is like limu bai kicks some magic bear's ass or whatever right like there's been three books just adventures

it's great that by picking a later book they like end up prescribing to the like get in like get out early theory of dramatic storytelling we're just like you don't need to see all the other shit this guy just comes with baggage and he's chally and fat and storytelling where it's just like you don't need to see all the other shit. This guy just comes with baggage and he's Chow Yun-fat and you believe. They don't explain anything. You can just imagine what that guy's been doing.

It's like a 2,000 page word book and like pretty much what James Seamus and the other writers took out of it was like they're Chinese and they fight. Just the basic dynamics, right?

Chow Yun-fat's an interesting And they have magic flying powers. Yes. Chow Yun-fat's an interesting point here because it's like okay, huge Hong Kong action star. He and John Woo were one of those pairs

where like their movies were crossover success and they were like let's get those guys to the States. And John Woo's making big American movies at this point

to varying degrees of success. Broken Arrow the biggest American movie. Right. The number one biggest American film of all time. The most expensive movie ever made.

Right now he's about he makes Mission Impossible 2 this year. So he's sort of at the height of his American so he'd gone broken arrow face off right so he was on the right trajectory chow yun fat wasn't totally working in the states you forgot hard target oh yes i did forget hard target fucking van damme and then broken arrow then face off but he's moving on a straight a straight upwards trajectory? He's getting bigger, the movies are doing better. And not only that, but his aesthetic is actually

well known to western audiences. Right. People know about the fucking doves and the two-handed guns. Jackie Brown has a whole monologue about the killer. It's really funny. I'm saying it's one of those things, like Rucker Hauer and Paul Verhoeven, where they were like, let's get both these guys over here.

And John Woo was like, sailing, and Chow Yun-fat was doing like, let's get both these guys over here. And John Woo was like sailing and Chow Yun-Fat was doing like the replacement killers. The Corruptor. Right. And I feel like everyone knew his name because he was one of those guys who overnight was like above the title in a bunch of action movies. And his name was Fat, so people thought it was funny.

Chow Yun-Fat. No, he'd be, so you got the Corruptor, which is the James Foley, Chow Yun-Fat, Mark Wahlberg, 99 joint. There's the replacement killers, which is, James Foley, Chow Yun-Fat, Mark Wahlberg 99 joint. Right. There's The Replacement Killers, which is, I've seen it. That movie's a lot of fun. Anton Fuqua?

Miro Sorvino, right? Yeah. That movie's kind of rules. Juergen Prochnow, Michael Rooker. Yeah. It's just fun. Rooker? Yeah, Rooker's in it.

And then he was in Anne and the King last year. Right. Which is a little more of a prestige play, right? Right. That's directed by Andy Tennant. Director of Hitch. Yeah. A director of Ever After's directed by Andy Tennant. Director of Hitch. Yeah. A director of Ever After.

That was his Ever After. Director of Sweet Home Alabama. Yeah. You're right. Yeah. So, you know, that had been a flop. Tennant's our next miniseries, by the way. I was going to say, what's the Tennant?

After this, he doesn't make a movie for three years. And when he does, it's a bulletproof monk, which is one of the top five worst movies ever made. My point is... It's just weird that he was just like forget it he was such a big star overseas and his movies did cross over here to the states that he just like landed as like chow yun fat is an american leading man everyone pay attention he's gonna be your next great hollywood movie star and he was like sold that

way and then the three movies didn't really connect but he had that kind of like name recognition sure but sight unseen you watch the first 10 minutes of crouching tiger and you get it you get it he rolls up and you're like okay you fucking get it and this is also him doing something very different than what he's ever done before as we said like because he it is uh he was a pretty modern star this is him putting himself into a different time period and a different sort of genre uh but he's the dude's just a fucking badass so he has wu-tang powers because he's from the wudang mountain school yeah which is in like every kung fu movie right you go up to the mountain and you learn your your crazy kung fu powers right so he has wu-tang powers

yeah he's fought people for a million years. Yeah. He's got the weird haircut. He's also got a shiny MacGuffin. Yeah. He has a shiny ass MacGuffin. Green. Green and cool. You know how most swords are silver? Not this one, baby.

He's decided to retire because he felt an endless sorrow. Yeah. Recently. Same reason I'm retiring from film criticism. Same reason I'm retiring from making TV shows. So he's come to Sir Tay's house Sir Tay played by who? our

father who knows best Si Hong Leung from the first three movies Ang Lee made I love that he just pops back in here he's gonna give him

the sword then I don't know what he's gonna do is he gonna like walk around like what's Lee Moo Bai's plan? oh he wants to

he wants to move past the void if uh you know what i mean with michelle bulls he's gonna ask her on a date he's gonna like you want to get some noodles sometime he i mean he has especially spent like in my mind it's something like 25 or 30 years yeah uh reflecting on his inability to be with her because his like blood brother in arms was engaged to her when he died and they to honor his memory have always had to be platonic and then he has sort of reached a point where he's like oh this is the only thing that actually matters because everything else

is impermanent and our love to quote the james shamus lyrics from the closing the closing song uh is our love is like a drug right that's That's the song from the Increditarians. Our love won't let you down. Love will keep us together. And so he's asking in the most repressed possible way, like, wanna fuck? Right. But I think, see, I think that was his intention, and then he shows up and is like, I do not have the courage to go through with this. Like, he immediately starts

whiffing and biting his tongue. He's a nervous boy. Even though he can, like, if someone shoots a sword at him, he can like cut the sword up and shoot the sword back at that person. That dude walks on treetops. But like 15 minutes later

when the movie goes full Jane Austen and she's like, Michelle Yao's character is really slow on the uptake to figure out like what Li Mu Bai

is thinking about because she's been so locked in in this sort of platonic sexless vibe for so long and then he just looks at her and he goes like, I didn't know the sword was stolen until I got here.

And it's like, damn! Like, sorry, I'm cutting ahead a little bit. No, you're right though. No, cut it. I love a good repressed love story. Do you know what I think Chow Yun-Fat's, I do too. You know what I think Chow Yun-Fat's status is in this movie?

I think he's in like Daniel Day-Lewis retirement mode. Where it's like, you were the best in the world at something you're suddenly telling us that it's not satisfying to you anymore you want to get out of it and he's like I don't know cobble shoes like what am I gonna do like it feels like if he stayed alive in three years he probably would have gone like you know what I'm gonna go back up to that mountain and start fighting people again

but hopefully with Michelle Yeoh by his side like he's just feeling the missing piece Michelle Yeoh is so fucking good in this movie. I always forget how much I like Michelle Yeoh until I'm watching a Michelle Yeoh film. And you're not watching The Lady.

I haven't seen The Lady. It's really hard to remember how much you like Michelle Yeoh when you're watching her in The Lady. Not her fault. Luke Besson didn't win March Madness. He might have. might have he's kind of curb stomped uh aronofsky why do you keep on doing it i don't know why i know what his name is aronofsky it's not i thought you were mad at him for curb stomped which seemed unnecessarily

violent i dislike everything david just um no but she's one of those actors who is so good at showing you everything she's thinking without like trying to communicate it sure can I say

weird comparison but I got it just from watching the way that she uses her eyes in these scenes where she's trying to suss out what that's the thing

she's such a fucking good eye actor I thought of Daniel Kaluuya in Get Out another great eye heavy performance yeah I think so.

It's very subtle, eye-based work. I mean, she barely moves a facial muscle. This is her most locked up. This is her at her peak repressed. And she kind of had a better... I mean, I just remember when Tomorrow Never Dies came out, and it was the first of four consecutive, like, finally, a Bond girl who's even tougher than Bond.

Sure, right. Yes yes she's the one who fights this time she rides a motorcycle holy cow yeah but she had similarly been someone that hollywood was trying to like make happen tomorrow never dies is fascinating though because she's like to him like you know china's run by gangsters i'm trying to deal with this and he's like you want to deal with my dick she's like no like i'm not interested i'm not in a james bond movie you're in a michelle yo film she's literally like uh the media is being corrupted by foreign influences monsters are buying up everything this is the most prescient thing that any any bond movie could deal with for the next like 25 years my ding dong like i don't even think they have sex in the movie they kiss at the end yeah uh

she's really good she's like less sexualized than most bond girls but still he keeps on trying to sexualize her right like the movie sexualizes her less than that character does. Right. And what else had she done in Hollywood? That is, I think, the extent of it. Really? I can double check. She's in nothing else. I just remember that, like her landing big with that movie. Of course, but that was only in 97.

Okay. But no, I mean, she had been a 15 year, you know, Hong Kong action star. The queen of martial arts, they call her. Yeah, she was amazing.

There's all the, you know, you can watch clips of her, like, she was an incredible physical performer. She was the only actress that Jackie Chan would let

do her own stunts in his movie. And came to this movie after having debilitating knee surgery. She, I think it happened at the very beginning of filming.

Right. And she had to keep on flying back to the States for surgery and then she'd fly back to set, do dialogue scenes while she was recovering, fly back to the States for further surgery.

Like they pushed off all of the action until the very end. You know, she was nominated for a BAFTA. She should have been nominated for an Oscar. A hundred percent.

This movie was sort of rudely treated by the Oscars in terms of the performances. I feel like they kind of just shrugged their shoulders about it. Yeah. I think all three actors, like starring actors, should have been nominated. I think there was some category confusion there. Z.E. Zhang feels like such a slam dunk supporting actress nomination. Right, but she's kind of the lead.

That's the question. That's the question. Because the first half of the movie, it definitely feels like it's Michelle Yeoh's film. And then it becomes really Z.E. Zhang. You know what it is, though? It's the question. That's the question. Because the first half of the movie, it definitely feels like it's Michelle Yeoh's film. And then it becomes really ZZH. You know what it is, though? It's Lady Bird. I was just watching this movie thinking about Lady Bird. You were watching this movie.

Did you see his tweets? James Seamus liked these tweets. Edgar Wright liked these tweets. What? I'm sorry, Ben. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I feel like I'm not being louder than usual, but somehow I'm burning the mic more than usual.

It's quite all right. Just move away from it. I've seen this movie, I think, just constantly since it came out on DVD. It's just been on a loop in my apartment in mind. So that's more than a few times. It's like the ambient music in your bathroom. Oh, yeah, absolutely, which is usually blank check, but also this. And I listen to it on the pooper when I'm getting fired.

I'm just really dating this podcast now. Cool. But I never really looked at it through this lens until I was just on ambient and trying to apply Lady Bird quotes to everything. Because that's what you do when you take sleeping pills. And I realized that there is a lens. I mean, obviously obviously there's a

love story that you don't get ladybird between the adults in the room but uh it is a coming of age story which actually and she becomes their surrogate daughter and the like sort of the glue that is bringing them together but also the factor that is keeping them apart right but it's also kind of right what if sense and sensibility katelet's character, could fly and was a bandit? Sure. It's a big hodgepodge. A lot of things going on. A little stew.

I love that she's a fucking bandit. She's a bandit. Yeah. She's like, let me learn how to fly. Let me learn how to sword fight. But also, I'm going to be a bandit. Ben's throwing his hands up in the air like a televangelist. I'm so excited.

I love bandits. Do you wish you were a bandit? Yeah. With a well-placed like handkerchief oh my god are you serious of course i want a handkerchief over my face now here's the thing this is a little non-traditional of a take for me but i love the fact that she was a dry bandit interesting because you know because it's the wet bandits of home alone right i almost just stepped on your joke i was gonna cue you up for it

I'm so glad I didn't to let you get that out but like there's there's a lot of good wetness in this movie yeah it's a pretty wet movie for sure because there's sex scene

in a spa essentially mountain spa there's a great great jump into a lake yeah there's just even the way that like

Zhang Ji just like gops at the water in the waterfall at the end when she's poisoned yeah she just like stands under the the little in the waterfall at the end when she's poisoned she just like stands under the little

drip drop and she's like the whole end sort of finale chunk that's true that's gonna be a disgusting sound but she's a dry bandit she is a dry bandit

I mean she's very dry in general like it's a lot of like you know in and out I do want to talk a little bit about sweatiness because I mean we could have this conversation

organically as we go through the plot but you know I think about sweatiness in terms of how you guys like to describe movies and it's interesting because this is and the way that this movie is plotted is a lot sweatier than I had ever realized

but it's all done so elegantly and with so much grace that you don't even really notice or care but you're right like there's a version of this movie where you're like wait there's a flashback now and then there's another one that just sort of continues that flashback like 20 minutes later because the flashback happens like an hour in and then lasts for like 15 minutes and now there's this part where she just goes to a bar for a while like what's this bar like where's the bar she doesn't look like a boy

yeah everyone buys it and calls her sir even after she started talking there's like a guy whose whole bit is like two bowling balls on sticks like that's his weapon he just picked that one guy brings an abacus to the fight uh zi jeng this was like her second or third movie right yeah i think it might be third let me check i mean she had broken out with uh the road home right that was her yeah where she's uh she's such a cutie pie in that movie and she was certainly the person they tried to make happen the most after this apparently no yeah she was in some tv movie so this is her second movie okay second movie uh she works with two legends of asian cinema uh and then she gets to follow up by working

with two more legends chris tucker and brett ratner i was so hyped for rush hour two me too i was so in on her and i was so happy she was in it i don't even remember what she does in that movie like she kicks some people do you remember that that Rush Hour 2 had the biggest opening weekend of all time at that time? No. In 2001, Rush Hour 2 opened to $70 million. It's because the guy who allegedly went on to... The Chinese billionaire who paid Zhang Jie for... 67?

Wow. There's some story about how some Chinese billionaire paid Zhang Jie a crazy amount of money for a weekend together. I don't know if it's true, but I feel like before he had realized that that was a possibility for him, he may have just splurged on Rush Hour 2 tickets. Rush Hour 2 is still the fourth biggest opening

in August ever. Yeah, it's a crazy big opening. Behind Bourne Ultimatum, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Suicide Squad. I think at the time of its release, it was in the top five

opening weekends of all time. But like her being in that was so fucking exciting. It was. It's a bad movie. Rush rush hour one is good rush hour two is bad i don't like i think rush hour one still holds up i mean i like jackie chan and i don't even mind chris tucker but rush hour is kind of a boring sweaty cop movie like that's the problem like i like jackie chan like when he's like just doing his stuff counterpoints for you elizabeth pena rules in it when she's like just doing his stuff. I have a few counterpoints for you. Elizabeth Pena rules in it. She's always good. Tom Wilkinson

plays the villain. His name is Griffin. That is true. You want to know something and then you can talk, David. I'm sorry. My mother interviewed Tom Wilkinson

many, many, many years ago. Okay. I think for In the Bedroom. Did he bring baguettes? No, it was pre-baguette Wilkinson. It was for In the Bedroom I'm pretty sure.

Yeah. And I remember him saying she said like he said to me Rush Hour like transformed his career i'm sure and i was like really rush he's in that i like to almost already forgotten and he said like that was it that was what hollywood took me seriously after i was in rush he's the big bad in rush hour but i had forgotten it was him like i didn't remember him from that when he then broke out after that. And then I saw Rush Hour on CBS in like 2010. I was like, oh, Tom Wilkinson was the villain in this? No Rush Hour, you don't get Michael Clayton.

You don't get the sweatiest performance of all time. And the baguettiest performance of all time. But wow, does it hurt my heart on a podcast dedicated to one of the great films to be talking about Brett Ratner. All right. Back to, not to tell you guys to do your job, but I can't, I was just going to say that. podcast dedicated to one of the great films to be talking about Brett Ratner. Alright. Not to tell you guys how to do your job, but I can't...

Whenever I think about the first 20 minutes of this movie and how they're organized and how they build up to a fight scene that changed me at a genetic level, it always makes me feel, and this is not a good feeling, like Harry Knowles reviewing Blade 2. If you mention that review two more times, he shows up.

Well, this is really the only mention I built into my notes. But, I mean, just the way that... That's all I need to say about that. For those of you who don't know... Do we need to bring more people into the fold? Just Google Harry Knowles Blade 2 if you want to feel really uncomfortable. Do you know this, Ben? I'm going to put this as delicately as I can.

He compares the film. He says that- Watching the film. The movie is like watching Guillermo del Toro perform cunnilingus, but he doesn't just say that. He devotes like four paragraphs to- Describing like the act of cunnilingus. I just had a passing thought watching it.

I was like, if I were Harry Knowles, that would be the review I wrote for this movie. But fortunately for all of us, I'm not. But the first 20 minutes of this movie, now that I've put it in the worst possible context to introduce them, are organized so unusually, but also so expertly. There's no action.

It's a lot of convos. Can I just say one last thing about Rush Hour 2? Is it going to be in reference to the bit in the closing credits where a stuntman falls off a building and jackie and chris tucker goes oh he's not gonna be in rush hour three because that's one of the great lines it is it's really good it's 15 million comedy points he got 20 million dollar points yeah for the third movie someday we'll just talk about we'll do a whole episode about chris tucker's salary increases which is insane.

$20 million, which is funny. ZZang. Yeah, it was really funny. One comedy point. ZZang didn't speak a word of English when she did rush hour two. So Jackie Chan translated everything for her.

So ZZang probably had the best experience of anyone who ever worked on a Brett Ratner movie. Cause she never had to talk to Brett Ratner. Right. It all went through the nicest man in show business. Yeah, exactly. You're right. Talk about the opening. It's all convos.

It's like 15... It's beautiful. Tandon is wilding out. Tandon's just going crazy. Yo-Yo Ma's sitting there throwing him layups. The listener at home, I'm dancing like I'm at a club.

There should have been a remix. There should have been like a club remix. Yeah, there should be a Isn't that what the Shane is on credit song is? But no, it's real deliberate. I think that if you or 16-year-old me

hyped for, you know, some of the best choreographed actions of all time, you're like, what the fuck have i stumbled into sure and they just build it up and suddenly you get and they cut to the night time and you see a little bit of wisp of cloth go across the the top of the screen and uh suddenly

we are in what to my mind is is like maybe the most beautifully choreographed uh fight scene i've ever seen this is the first night fight sequence? Every fight sequence is so good. It may not even be the best fight scene in the movie. Alright, so we got Li Mu Bai, famous warrior, kind of chilling out, looking to retire. We got Xu Lian, semi-famous

warrior. I feel like she's like a B-list famous warrior, right? I think, you know, in the whole sort of misogynistically organized society they live in, she's most... She never got to climb the ladder all the way and she's mostly known for being the object of his affection right right she's like his pal we've got the introduction of the princess because they see her they walk in on her coveting that sword you mean jay jay i mean not jay jen yes yeah right yes and then yeah she's there but she's just like right like a an aristocrat

a little breakfast at Tiffany's moment just staring at that story being like I want it tells Michelle Yeoh kind of how like much she wishes

that she could have Michelle Yeoh's life right it's a lot of oh he went on all these adventures it's so exciting and she's like

just books Julianne's just like yeah it's not that exciting I mean you know I can fly yeah

I can fly yeah let's i mean i can fly um and then jade fox who is also the handmaiden you know to jen yes she's there yeah i remember i think it took me a movie to put that together same here yeah uh so she's there she's like a hated a sworn enemy she killed famous thief and murderer she's a poisoner she's killed everyone who the plot needs to have been disposed of in the past yes like if anyone's ever died in this part of china it's because she killed them right because then we also have this detective who's rolled into town with his very sweaty very sweaty detective is sweaty yeah love all those characters very the detective and his daughter who are posing as actors that line has been confusing me for like

18 years like why they say street performers because they think that they're trying to steal the sword they're like no we were rehearsing our routine yeah and it's like well my baby what routine is this they paint each other silver and pretend to be robots now this movie is subtitled angley wrote the subtitles because he wanted the subtitles to be clear and to like convey plot and i watched this with my girlfriend who speaks mandarin and she was like laughing all the time not like she didn't think they were risible she was just like i can't believe that that's what that became. Right. Like, and it's always like,

it's some idiom that just makes no sense. Well, the movie is so cognizant about speaking to those audiences. We talked to, I mean, they, this was James Seamus writing with two Chinese writers, you know,

Ang Lee trying to meld his new audience city again in the U S with, you know, the old, I mean, this is not an explicitly Taiwanese film, but those are the movies he grew up with. Yes. And trying to bring both audiences

to the table. And so I think that does boil down all the way to the subtitles. But I'm so curious as to what that writing process was like, too, with Seamus. Was he writing stuff that they were sort of converting? Was he sort of speaking and they were typing in a different language? Right, I'm confused because he wrote all the three

earlier Taiwanese films, too. So you know James, right? You guys are pals. Jimmy? We're best friends. Jimmy James? Yeah. He and I are blood brothers and I peed next to him once.

It was pretty fantastic. Wow, how's that do? Ehrlich? Ehrlich. Ehrlich, I must ask. You got a peek of the pain? You got a peek of that shameless pain? I did not get a burger report.

James Shamus, I'm afraid to say. More like a hot dog report. I did not. I also, no. Good guy. Interviewed him for Indignation, which is a movie that he made and I loved. Great movie.

And I have no more insights off about what the writing process is like. Yeah, I don't know how it works. I met James Seamus at a cocktail party and I said, when are you going to cut it with the popcorn fair indignation and do something with some real depth? He must have laughed.

He did. Seamus is good for a joke. He gave me a comedy point. He's good on Twitter, too. Yeah. He's kind of fun on Twitter. He also told me I was right about Hulk. I know.

We'll talk about that on The Hulk. Yes. By the way, James Seamus is going to be the guest on every episode we have for the rest of this mini-series. Fantastic. I'm going to ask him about Tony Leung's balls. Yes. By the way, James Seamus is going to be the guest on every episode we have for the rest of this mini-series. Fantastic. Yeah. I'm going to ask him about Tony Leung's balls.

Oh. Less caution. More like balls caution. I wonder if James Seamus made the cut to be in the room during those close sex scenes. Sex scenes. Yeah.

It was a very tight list. And I don't know if Seamus got it. He might have insisted. I don't know. Maybe it was in his rider. Boy. I don't know if that's what

they mean by inclusion rider. Wait a second. I just got know. Maybe it was in his rider. Boy, I don't know if that's what they mean by inclusion riders. Wait a second. I just got an email. James Seamus has dropped out of the next six episodes. I told you it was a mistake to loop him in live to this episode. Yeah, but we've been doing it for three years. He didn't have a problem until now. Weird.

Yeah, he's been in from the beginning. He was like Star Wars prequels. Look, I just want to say one thing yeah go ahead we transfer make sharing big files easier than I don't know storming a castle to get the final key no sign ins no avatars

no offer codes no password to forget no cost you just upload the file you send it and you get back to making whatever it is you make such as solid gold podcasts. I thought we were going to do a bit where we went back and forth and I would list a real

thing and you'd list a Ready Player One specific. I know, but then I just sort of got hooked by what WeTransfer actually does. Here's the thing. WeTransfer's all about making the creative process easier for everyone. Everyone! They built their site to be the simplest way to share big files around the world for free um you know i've i've used other file sharing things in the past

and you gotta log in you gotta like you know attach an email account or something get out of here with all that stuff there's no sign in app no offer codes no password to forget just upload send get back to making what you make so you it that sweet love. 40 million people use it every month to send and receive files. They devote 30% of their ad space to showcasing creative people from around the world. People like musicians,

photographers, or podcasters. Yeah. So in that spirit, we're skipping the rest of the 60-second ad and getting right back into the podcast. WeTransfer.com. You make WeTransfer. Can we talk about that fight scene? Yes.

What a fight scene. The fight scene's incredible. How does the fight scene play out? You've got Jade Fox, who's got poison darts and stuff. She's not super relevant to this fight scene. Not in the first one. No, it's all sword thievery. They think it's her.

What you have are two actresses who have spent a year of their lives preparing to dance with weapons in incredibly close quarters. How do they do this shit? It's insane, but when you watch an American movie and especially after watching something like this and are just gobsmacked at how awful the action is,

it's because you just don't have the talent required to pull it off. Or the time. Time's a big thing. Yeah, but it's, you know, Zhang Ji was, I don't know if Hurl for dancing training

was in mind of eventually having this career, but Michelle Yao is certainly. Because in that industry, this is as important a skill set as anything else

that you might bring to the table for a film. It's like the old Hollywood system where it's like you had to learn how to tap dance, you had to learn how to sing. If you wanted to be an actor you had to know the couple of things. You had to know fencing, you know? The length of the takes

for the action sequence I mean that's what pushes this movie over the edge. I just don't understand how it's really possible. And Yoon Woo-Ping had time too. I mean he, you know, choreographing it had a time that he never really had before and so he like busted out the big guns all like the kicks that he had been holding in his back pocket for all those years it was like oh the thing where where we do like a top down shot and you're jumping and kicking and she's jumping and kicking then you're both jumping kicking like this is the one well as as you

crazy said zhi zhang had no martial arts background a dance background, and she just approached all of this like a dance routine. Like, that's how she learned it, which works really well because it is so much about, like, the grace of the movements and everything. Um, but we were talking about, like, the time and energy that is not usually given to this sort of choreography, especially

more and more as things become action and fight-based, but the actual quality of those fights is prioritized less and less i read some interview with the fucking iron fist where they were asking him about like how much time the worst choreographed martial arts thing i've ever seen right and they asked him like so how much like uh rehearsal did you have to do like choreography and he was like they pretty much like on the morning when i got to set, they'd show me what the fight was. We just improv'd it.

And I'd have like 30 minutes to learn. Yeah, and it's just like, so you hired a guy who doesn't have a martial arts background and then would just come up with something on the day? It's almost like TV is stupid. Yeah. Almost like TV's for losers.

The only guys who are thinking about this with that level of depth, at least in the Western world, are the guys who are doing John Wick John Wick 2 Atomic Blonde

their whole company is based around the action built in that manner also I mean Walt Becker the choreography of his nut shots is really I thought that

that was understood I didn't realize that I had to explicitly that's just like saying the sky is blue any cast member of a Walt Becker film

has to spend a year training to get properly hit in the nuts this is why Shaq retired a few years earlier than he might have otherwise because he had to prepare for grown-ups too that's a Walt Becker joy no no you think it does do again oh fuck that's a Dugan um how could I ever confuse them I know how dare you um yeah the uh Chad Stahelski David Leitch school I like that because right again, they want you to see the whole stunt. Like this, they want to see the whole fight.

What I like about John Wick and shit where they're like, we want you to get that like a guy just got hit by a car. Chad Stahelski, Keanu Reeves' stunt double on The Matrix where he met Ewan McPig. I know. The other guy I like a lot

who we've talked about in the past is Himes, his son, who does the Universal Soldier directed video movies. Right, which I've never seen. I know you've sang their praises. He choreographs and shoots action in a very similar way which is even more astounding because he's working on crazy limited budgets and schedules because he has action choreography but not a screenplay right right but he hires a lot of like MMA fighters

for like primary roles in the movie because he's like I want to be able to do a long take but the grace of the fighting in this scene, in this film as a whole, is especially meaningful because these fight scenes are, with one exception, not about violence. They are about self-expression. Right. Which is where the dance thing pays off. But also, he does

such a good job of building this sort of language of the flying where the first couple times it's just like huh, they jumped and they stayed in the air a little too long. It still looks a little magical. There are a few shots in this first light scene where they're like paddling their legs over houses and they miss, like Michelle Yeoh misses.

11-year-old Griffin was laughing and 29-year-old Griffin was crying. Yes, I agree. I know what you mean though, right. It's not like clean in some ways because there are people pulling fucking strings. But they did pointedly like put a lot of time and energy into CGI-ing out the wires,

which like the sort of schlockier versions of these movies, the joke was that you could always see the wires. And in this, there's something magical about the fact that even though the movements, the motions clearly look like wire poles, there's nothing sort of propelling it. You got Tan Dunn going like... Damn right.

Wild it out. And people in the club are like... Oh, man. This scene. It was... I was over. It was game over for me after this scene. So you're just sold.

You got Inspector Psy, everyone's favorite character. Yeah. He's always fucking up. Yeah. He's such an idiot. Yeah. He's such a bum, this guy. He's such a crumb bum.

Yeah, he always has to ask one more thing. Yeah, right. Yeah, he's like a poor police investigator. I don't know, who is he? He's the Columbo of Wuxia. But he's like shitty. Yeah, he's bad. Like, who's a shitty Columbo?

He's like Kojak. Kojak's okay. Don't disrespect my man Kojak. Rosewood, maybe? Are you talking about Morris Chestnut? No, old Rosewood. Oh, okay. All right.

Rizzoli and Isles. Hey. Hey. It's just like one of them. Hey, those are fine ladies. Because they're fine together, but Isles, it's like Samson without the hair. Were they detectives? I thought they were lawyers. I don't know.

Or was that Franklin and Bash? Franklin and Bash are lawyers. Rizzoli and Isles are detectives. They they detectives? I thought they were lawyers. I don't know. Or was that Franklin and Bash? Franklin and Bash are lawyers. Rizzoli and Isles are detectives. They are? Yeah, I think so. We all knew this episode was going to come to a point where we'd have to pause

to Google Rizzoli and Isles. Yeah, the Wi-Fi went out. We're never going to find out. That's the one that Kamau was on, right? Kamau was on Franklin and Bash. Yeah, fuck. So who was on Rizzoli and Isles?

Fucking Angie Harmon and the other one, Sasha Alexander. Who was their nerd? Who was theirles? Fucking Angie Harmon and the other one, Sasha Alexander. Who was their nerd? Who was their fucking computer jockey? Something or other. The Wi-Fi went down. Jeez.

Ben. Ben. We're flying blind. Ben. Turn it on. Turn it on, Ben. All right. I'll unplug the router.

Oh, boy. All right. So that's the big... What happens in this big fight? The sword is stolen. Well, yeah. Green destiny, baby. It's so cool that's the big fight. What happens in this big fight? The sword is stolen. Oh, yeah. Green Destiny, baby. It's so cool.

You're right about the fights being stolen. You never feel a lot of danger in the fights, which is why it's... What happened? I just Googled bones. I was trying to look up the show, and I realized that's a very ridiculous search. Just bones. You just got a lot of bones. Anyway, continue.

I'm just realizing this is a hard movie to describe because so much of what you're trying to describe is like mind-boggling physical interaction. So she still soared and then everyone's plans are sort of put on hold. Like, Limbaugh can no longer retire, even though he's trying to get rid of the sword.

And Shaolin Shulian has a new job. And Jen is just, like, hanging out there and immediately is the one and only suspect. Yeah, right. And then Jen's calligraphy gives herself. I mean, the calligraphy scene is art. This is beautiful. She said she spent as much time practicing the calligraphy as she did the sword fighting. I'm sure.

But they also make a wanted sign for the jade fox who they suspect stole a sign and it's uh it's funny hearing james shamus uh sort of like slap his forehead about this on the commentary but it's still supposed to be a mystery who jade fox is at that point in the movie right and the wanted sign is just like a perfect illustration great picture of her right because it's supposed to be plausible that that this young-ish bandit right like creamy like uh porcelain skin it's like a headshot of the older actress it's just like here she is right in ink aren't they even surprised at the beginning some characters to hear that jade fox is a woman like they just assumed it was a man and now suddenly it's a very specific woman who we all know.

But yes, Jen is trying to get away from her life. This marriage, she doesn't want this sort of life of aristocracy. She has no interest and she wants to be like the characters in the books that she grew up reading. And she's who were, you know,

there's some of them were of the Shulian vein, but I think a lot of them were probably men. I mean, she's realizing now that she's being forced into this marriage with Governor Yu or whoever the fuck she it's um no not governor she hates the name i can't remember the name gal gal i think it's that who is eventually played by like the first ad like one long shot yeah um is like she's realizing the burden of being a woman

in that particular society and all that it portends but so like the idea is that the jade fox while on the run was like, let me just like hide out, get a very simple, quiet handmaiden job. And then suddenly was like the one person that Jen had access to who could train her. Yeah.

Which was just like, she became a disciple. She became a bandit because that was like the only path she had to. She's bitter as hell. She wanted to be a Wu Dan fighter and she went there and they were, you know, the teacher was willing to have sex with her but not willing to teach her. Yeah. And so she was understandably bitter and wanted to pass that along.

Yeah. Lee Thompson Young is the nerd in Rizzoli and Isles. Oh. Lorraine Bracco and Bruce McGill are also in it though. Lee Thompson Young killed himself. Did he? I'm so sorry I'm glad my Harry Knowles reference Was not the most depressing detour

This podcast has made I remember reading the story about him not showing up to SAP That's sad He was the famous Chet Jackson right? Yes he was I saw him on the subway once he looked really sad Thanks for that. I was like, why is Jeff Jackson so sad?

Yeah, the famous Jeff Jackson. Yeah, it's a bummer. Yeah. So anyway. There are a lot before the second fight scene. There are a lot of conversations that I think harken back to the kind of King Hu movies that in the classical Kung Fu things that we're expecting. Give it to me.

They're talking a lot about the various elemental rules and the philosophy of everything. They're saying like a sword by itself rules nothing. It comes alive only through skillful manipulation. they're talking a lot about the various elemental rules and the philosophy of everything they're saying like a sword by itself rules nothing it comes alive only through skillful manipulation and they're talking in very veiled terms about their feelings for one another and sussing each other out there's a lot of that conversation where jen is like coveting the sword and michelle yo is like it's a lot less pretty when it's covered in blood you know and he and then he like lima bai talks about like how it only looks good because it's easily washable essentially like the blood

comes off real smooth yeah and it's like made out of vibranium it's made out of vibranium it cuts through

other fucking swords it's also just right Jen is obsessed with this sword because she I guess she just thinks it's like her salvation

right getting the sword she doesn't get that she's already she thinks it's a trump card like if I have this, they can't question me. They can't beat me, right. Whereas, I mean, that scene where he

kicks her ass with a stick is so good. But I also love that Jen worships Shulian. And like, that first fight scene is between the two of them and Shulian doesn't know who she's fighting, but Jen does, and she's like, holy shit, I'm in one of those stories that I've dreamed of my whole life. Right. Very last action hero.

So they fight. Very Jack Slater 3. So there's that initial fight that's just Jen and Shulian, right? The stealing of the sword. The stealing of the sword. But she also, she fucking, the detective gets killed, right? Well, that's the second fight. That's the second fight.

We do get a quick look at Cheng Chen, though, who ends the fight with a blow dart and then just slinks back into the darkness and you're like, huh, that's odd. Guess we'll just ignore that.

Right, because she catches it, which is cool. Dark cloud. Dark cloud. But anyway, so then there is a little bit of like, oh, you guys are actors?

Well, actually, I'm a cop from the mountains seeking the avenge. So what kind of stuff have you been in actors well actually i'm a cop from the mountains seeking the avenge so what kind of stuff have you been in have i seen you in anything rush out you and tag uh so those guys get introduced they're cannon fodder right yeah they're they're blow dart fodder but two of them fuck uh you're right totally off screen but yeah dumbass inspector sai

yeah and the daughter may forged in the heat of battle after the death of her father is like standing

watch outside her house just being nice and she's like just come on in yeah why don't you come inside

and it's a little bit warmer yeah no one's dead in here no one's got a thing in their head

in here yeah but yeah so it's that second fight which also rules in like the courtyard i love that the tecto side looks like dollar store chow yung fat too he does like he's styled the same way he's just got like a shittier black robe but can someone explain to me and this is something that has eluded me for 18 years now why he is tied to the rock when he like runs out into the courtyard and he just like pulled back. Joanna asked this question too.

I don't know. It's like, I think he has like a grappling hook and he used it wrong or something. Like there's some, I think he's got some cool Batman thing. He just doesn't know how to use it. It totally flies over my head. Like it's like we're missing a shot.

Exactly. Like when that's introduced. Right. So, so so is is joanna fluent yeah and she was saying like a lot of the sort of line readings the accent clashing what she said was essentially and of course you know she's still a white lady but she does you know she lived in china for many years she speaks mandarin it's like she's like it's not that bad michelle yo on her own she's just talking But then once she's talking to someone else,

it does stick out like a sore thumb. It's the fact that everyone's doing a different thing. I mean, that's the real thing. And she said with Chai Am Fat, she's not as good at detecting accents. But yes, he sounds different. Because he himself says that his accent's terrible in this movie. Right, and he also said he'd never had to do

so many takes over the language before. Probably because he mostly had to do lots of takes over stunt work or whatever before. I'm just fascinated by the fact that weirdly somehow, I think the seeming authenticity of this movie became its greatest asset. That it didn't feel like a westernized version of a Wuxia epic. That it

was like a heightened sort of more intellectual version, more emotional version of it. But like that Eastern audiences saw it and they were like, oh, yeah, accents all clash. But the fact that like we dumb Americans don't know what they're saying makes it feel like it has more integrity and weight to it, you know? Yeah.

I mean, yeah. I'm not backhanding the movie. No, I mean, this is always how it goes. There are movies that have done phenomenally well overseas that we would dismiss. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, like, the artist was kind of viewed that way

when it started doing so well here. Yeah, the French people are like, we made this as a joke. This is the guy who made our Austin Powers analog. Yeah. It's just like, well, obviously, there are so many historical films that take place in different countries

where everyone just speaks English and I imagine that in China that's how this movie played you know

like it was like why are all these German people in World War II speaking English with British accents it's funny that Jiang Xi was then

in Memoirs of a Geisha which has an even worse problem I know right I mean obviously way worse yeah do you know that most. I mean, obviously, way worse. Do you know that most of that movie

was shot in San Francisco? No. I didn't know that. I can tell because that movie was getting hyphy. Yeah, that's usually how I bring that up at parties. Negative five comedy points.

Ben gave me a thumbs up. That's all I need. Completely over my head. Someday. Someday. I'm going to listen back to this episode I will not take up

real estate explaining this please don't so sword is stolen sword is stolen cop gets a spinny

thing in the face spinny blade to the face I just love how everyone in this movie has just gone all in on X weapon yeah

except for the main characters and Chow Yun-Fat does this thing with the Green Destiny where he shakes it like a snake. I love it when he shows up. Oh, my God. And you're like 35 minutes into the movie and you haven't seen him fight.

And the entire first 35 minutes of the movie are people talking about how good he is at fighting. And then he shows up and it takes like three moves and you're like, oh, shit, that guy is good at fighting. You know, the ballest move he has in this movie is when, who is it? The Jade Fox does the five-point thing to paralyze him. And Shia LaBeouf is like, don't worry, I know the reverse code. He hits him like he's a fucking keypad and he's unparalyzed.

I mean, the movie is really unashamed at playing into these cliches and giving them new life. sort of like, you know, giving them new life. Because there's no one, like James Seamus, Ang Lee, they all are celebrating how much of an unrealistic cliche this is, how it's built into a lot of the movies to which they're paying homage. And they just own it. They're like, we can throw it into this, like, you know, prestige

picture that's cost however much it costs. I mean, yeah, it's actually not that expensive, but I guess relative to the other movies. It's a lot of money for this kind of movie. But we're just going to own it with a straight face what he's all stillness what's your favorite weapon

in the movie I throw to the table because I have a clear cut answer there's a lot of weapons in this movie can I tell you what mine is yes Michelle Yeoh's

weird candy cane claw sort of things those are so cool the fucking coolest that whole fight I also like it when she just gets a curtain rod and starts wailing it when she just gets a curtain rod

and starts wailing on her with like a golden curtain rod we'll get to that but no I feel like there's another obvious one I mean I like

bowling ball guy like the guy who's got dumbbells like broken in half just cause like he has to carry yeah he has to like carry them everywhere

Michelle Yeoh's staff that like bends in that same fight scene with the red feather on the top is pretty badass. Also, as Sims mentioned, Chow Yun-Fat's stick. Yeah, the stick scene's great.

Chow Yun-Fat's dick? I didn't see him take it out in the movie. He's just swatting her with it. He's teaching her a great lesson. Which is that all you need's a stick, I guess. All you need's a stick. guess all you need is a stick remember the scene

where he sings that Jade Fox shows up in this battle and she sees her stooge her apprentice doing wild shit you see it on Jade's face by the way

this actress is wonderful Chang Pei Pei had never played a villain before and she's like pure evil here but also like you're so on her side she got so fucked over she's oh yeah he blown up my spot here i told you to lay low and like right but then you know and like immediately limu buys hitting her with the like you whore you slept with my master or whatever you know he's like you you infiltrated he right

he puts it a little more delicately like he's like you infiltrated the wu-tang school or whatever she's like yeah i was sleeping with your guy untilang school or whatever. She's like, yeah, I was sleeping with your guy until he kicked me to the curb. He wouldn't teach me the secrets. Yeah, he puts it delicately. He calls her a trollop instead of a whore. I love when later in the movie, Jen refers to the Wu-Dang school as a whorehouse and it's like, you've been listening to that woman for way

too long. Yeah, it's true. It's true. She does. She is a little, yeah, parody. But I just, I feel for Jade Fox. I do too. I feel like she got fucked over by the rules. It's her circumstance. And that scene a little yeah parody but I just I feel for Jade Fox I do too I feel like she got fucked over by the rules it's a circumstance and that scene

a little later where Limu Bai is doing his classic thing where he just stands in the middle of a room not moving one arm behind his back while he has a conversation

and he's like yeah maybe we should have her join the Wudang school and Shilianne's just like but women can't join and he's like yeah in this case

we should make an exception I think or else she'll be a poison dragon and she's just like but the women can't join and he's like yeah in this case we should make an exception i think or else she'll be a poison dragon and she's just like yeah no chill chill yeah you're right you're right yeah she'd be a poison dragon that'd be bad yeah not like just a repressed person who just like doesn't do anything with her life right wouldn't it be nice if you made one exception earlier yeah right oh yeah no no now it's the time for the except you're right you're right yeah definitely definitely. Bit of a yaddle. Michelle Yeoh. Bit of a yaddle.

He's just like staring off into the distance, contemplating endless sorrow, you know? And he's like, I'll just touch your face again. Touch my face again. It's fine. Don't worry about it. Oh, that scene. That scene. Oh, we'll get there.

It's so brutal. But yeah, so they have this fight. This guy who, you know, is invincible one second suddenly cannot catch a spinning blade to the face the next he sees it coming gets it right in the brain

to give him some credit he does catch it in between his eyes he catches it perfectly in the middle of his face but in a movie that's quite bloodless there's two moments

of moments of blood that and then when the guy has like blood coming out of his mouth when which is great Jen hits him in the face

but uh that one shot of him going like yeah I really like and then there's the great bit where Michelle Yao confirms that Jen

is the thief by knocking the the thing off the table oh god I love that whereas uh um Limu Bai's move

is like he kind of like blows some magic wind at her and it like flaps her thing up for a second. But he would never, I mean, that's in like a mini fight scene later. He would never embarrass her by,

or like lower her to removing her mask because this whole movie is about people coming to grips with, with who they are and what's important to them and unmasking someone else in that way. And like forcing them would be a rape of some kind. I mean, it would be, um, in the parlance of this movie. The other thing I love about the teacup scene is that like much like most martial arts films, this is like a very sound effects kind of foley heavy film.

Where you're hearing the swishes and the clangs and the whoops and everything. That teacup thing is like silent because the whole point is how effortlessly automatically she's able to just like catch it and stop any sort of clang from happening. Very, very Peter Parker. Yeah. And then the shots of the knowing looks. I love the knowing looks. This movie is 50% like super action and 50% knowing. Oh, yeah.

Because of how good Ang Lee is at getting like emotional restraint out of his actors his close ups are so fucking effective cause you just watch people thinking you know silent acknowledgements we've talked about his body language his mastery of body language he loves body language he gets it exactly right

he commands his actors to do very specific things David Ehrlich. Hi. Hi. So are we at the flashback now? Yeah. I think we're about at that point.

Yeah. Because we got to figure out who Jen is. Yeah. So Lo, a.k.a. Dark Cloud, comes into her bedroom when he says, Sounds like a bad PlayStation 2 game. Wasn't it a bad PlayStation 2 game? Dark Cloud. They turned this into a terrible video game. No, but like not Crouching Tiger, but Dark Cloud. souls well dark i mean dark souls is a phenomenal playstation 3 game right

but uh uh you're right it's a bad playstation 2 game it's an rpg oh it looks like zelda but shit yeah did you have the crouching tiger game no i played it though because my friend josh who was so like he yeah he went all in on he bought the soundtrack and that like second soundtrack that's like more like yo-yo mod rarities i don't know like i don't know what was on it because merchandise spotlight do you know there was a line of toys for this movie of course which is insane because it was like two years after a sony pictures classics film had come out, it had made such a cultural impact that there were like Crouching Tiger toys at RIP Toys R Us.

It's like if there were like Call Me By Your Name toys in 2019. Right, Call Me By Your Name became like a major blockbuster. Like an acrylic peach. Right, but like so often with like movies, it's either like you have the merchandise out before the movie comes out, or like 20 years later when it's become like a cult the merchandise out before the movie comes out or like 20 years later when it's become like a cult did you get your action figure yet

is this a sore subject is this a sore subject do you think it's a real point of frustration by August you will have gotten an action figure though on the record

okay when's this episode coming out August or July mid August August 13th I think I had been told that there is something that should be releasing

by holiday season of 2018. So I would hope that it would be revealed by the time this episode's coming out. But who knows? I keep on waiting for them to pull the rug out from under me. But I've heard they plan to have something for sale

December 2018. Okay. I'm gonna show or plan to have something for sale December 2018. I'm going to show a picture while you guys keep talking. Just to add to the merch spotlight, there's a porn parody of this movie. Crouching Penis. Well, it's Crouching Tiger

Hidden Penis. Usually in porn, the penis is not so hidden. Well, but in good porn. Do they shoot the porn, do you know, with the same sort of emotional restraint that they shoot the films? Ang Lee directed the porn as well.

He's got a lot of knowing looks. But it's just between a penis and a vagina just staring at each other from across. Oh, wow. Right? That's off-putting, but also very realistic. It's very weird. It's the neck is what's throwing me. realistic it's very weird once I it's the neck

is what's throwing me the neck is weird but I think without the neck I showed you this already I'm showing I'm showing the David the neck thing is really weird just on my head sculpted

it looks like a penis a little bit but like once on a on a body yeah on like a plastic body look good yeah I keep on

photo real it's photo real they got the pores right I just keep on waiting for them to be like, never mind. Never mind. Canceled due to complete lack of interest. I'm interested.

I'm interested too. I might buy an action figure of you. Oh yeah, you would? Yeah. And I don't buy action figures. You guys should have blank check. What if there are blank check action figures before there are the tick action figures?

I think Griffin would be fine with that. I take that as a win. I don't care. I think Griffin's just like, yo. I take that as a win. I don't care. I think Griffin's just like, yo, let me be an action figure. He's got like a pull string Rosley. He's just like... What? You just do an ad.

That is totally what would happen. We get contacted by some toy company about wanting to merchandise blank check. They only want to make Ben dolls. And they make like a thousand Bens. They make a different one for each nickname. Right.

They make one with ham like with a magnifying glass holding a piece of ham. Make like an audio boom pterodome and then and then venue. Yeah.

I combine the meat lover and the fart pack there. Flashback. There's my yawn. Yes, flashback. Flashback. We get in the middle of this movie

drops the hammer a 20-ish minute flashback. Which rules?wn yes flashback flashback we get in the middle of this movie drops the hammer a 20-ish minute flashback which rules to like the most remote shooting location on the face of the earth in the fucking Gobi desert in one hour

and it totally rules it starts with it totally rules it has like my favorite shot of all time which one's that going up the ridge and then like

seeing the whole like group of horses what a character intro. Seriously. Seriously. You got the comb. You got that comb. You love that comb.

You were tweeting about that comb. Fucking love that comb, man. It looks like a good comb. It's like second It's like second MacGuffin. I mean, there's a whole other movie here. It's a jade comb too,

isn't it? Also green. Yeah. Sure. You get one of the great meet-goots of all time when he steals it on horseback. While raiding her caravan.

And she's immediately, sorry, where am I going? I've tried that a bunch of times and it doesn't work. You've raided some caravans? Yeah, well, no. You wait for a girl to be in a caravan? No, I'm not that gross, please. Have you grown your hair out like that? Yes, I had a bad phase in high school.

You don't want to see the pictures. I'm not even joking. No, I would never raid a caravan. Right, you'd just steal a comb. I'd go to the bar and steal some combs. And then hopefully pretty women chase you. Yo, girl, let me get that comb. She follows Lo, who doesn't then hang out with his bandits.

He just goes across the desert to one of his hidey hole caves. Yeah. Well, you know, he goes to, he is hanging out with his bandits. He goes to the bandits first. She shows hidey hole caves yeah well you know he goes to he is hanging out right he goes to the bandits they're like she shows up and kicks a bunch of ass right right because she's already like four years into training oh she is all this this is like the invitation that she has been waiting for right uh her entire life and he goes after her and it's only because like she pursues him because otherwise it could seem a little rapey in the way that they come together in this little cave but it's really

the way that she pursues him and then he has to get his property back and take care of her and knocks her out and then things go from there. He's very nice. He's like, you know. He sings that very catchy song which they build into the score when you first cut to the caravan

you hear like, na nana-na-na. It's really subtle, but it's great. Chang Chan, who was like a child star, he's in A Brighter Summer Day. When's the Edward Yang cast? Let's fucking do it. Brighter Summer Podcast. Yang, then Flickman. A podcast and a podcast.

I don't know. I do think... Podcastian confusion. You make a good point, though, because he shows up and you're like, okay, here's the Wuxia version of a biker gang, right? And then very quickly it's like, no, those are

kind of like my work friends. I don't really like... We might get drinks and sit by a fire once a month. I like to chill in my cave. Right. I'm not really... I separate my personal life from my career. Am I the only one who thinks that cave life seems really relaxing? Why don't they just stay in the cave?

Bend back, bend into it. Love a good, dark place. But also having all of your worldly possessions just in this one cave. No one's going to come bother you. You can take a lady back there, give her a bath. He has to bring a lot of water though we don't see that part spoiler alert for the tomb raider movie that came out six months ago that we keep talking about yeah there's a

point where they find the character has been hiding in a cave for like five years i'm like just stay there it feels like you got to figure it out he's going a little crazy though he doesn't have chang chen to like give him a bath and rub his shoulders. No, I just would love to live in a cave. Dark Cloud hears that Trump was elected and then decides to go off the grid. That's the thing. I'd love to live in a cave and be like, no Wi-Fi access. You cannot check Twitter. There was a New York Times article about him. This is a callback to an article that we have all forgotten about by August.

Thank God. Caves have good ambiance, too. Yeah, of course. A house doesn't really make like great noises weird echoing noises you got dripping caves are kind of chilly too

like a nice sort of natural coolness yeah and they're often big and wet big and wet there's some wet scenes here

yeah a lot of focus on her mouth yep it's like you know prior to Lost Caution far and away

the most sensual thing that Ang Lee had ever filmed yes not since he filmed a duck having water poured down its throat and he drank man woman

as he's so erotically shot but it's also Frank Wise is pretty fucking hot in a sense go ahead it's also mythic

because the tone that the movie has established by this point they feel each say, it's also mythic because the way the tone that the movie is established by this point, like they feel each other out. They're there. It's very romantic comedy. It's all very like adversarial

romantic comedy. Like then they commit to loving each other and then it's like they see each other's butts and then boom, that's all they need to be riding on horseback together

like in a romantic fable. There are two great butts here, four great cheeks. Also a good, also a great virginity loss. Where's I had you lose your virginity prom night. You know, it was a little awkward.

How'd you lose your, I got kidnapped and went to a cave. I was seeing pirates, the Caribbean, three sexy bandit called dark cloud, you know, classic, you know,

just standard teen. They're like, Oh, did you, uh, did you do the walk of shame home the next day? No, he took me to the most beautiful waterfall on earth and in soft focus They're like, oh, did you do the walk of shame on the next day? No, he took me to the most beautiful

waterfall on earth and in soft focus told me a myth about a kid jumping off a mountain. Also, I proceeded to live in that cave for several more weeks,

months. How long has she gone for? Shulian's really polite, by the way. Yeah, because when Jen is like, you're really cool with all your adventures.

She should be like, yeah, what about when you got kidnapped by a bandit? And you were in the desert. What happened there? And instead she's just like, no, it's no big deal. Well, it's so underplayed that it's so ingrained in the choices

they have to make that she is living off the grid in a cave, but they can't be happy and be themselves when her father's men are always on the prowl looking for her. And they're both just like you know after presumably just boning for a while they're just like oh I gotta go back like hopefully we can

make this work one day and Dark Cloud's like I'm gonna be rich and I'm gonna prove your parents that I'm worth it yeah I know where he's just like what if I became the greatest bandit of all time would they like me then and she's kind of like oh let's see like I don't And she's kind of like, oh, let's see. I'm like, I don't know.

She's like, have you considered law school? This is like the best plan. It was like, you know, I'm like a famous bandit, but like A-list famous. That's marriageable, right? I'm imagining the spinoff greatest bandit musical now.

Is he? He's in the sequel. I've seen the sequel. No one has seen the sequel. No one's seen it. That's not true. You're lying. You've not seen it. I don seen the sequel. No one has seen the sequel. I saw it. That's not true. You're lying. You've not seen it.

I don't remember it at all. It doesn't exist. Obviously, like, Chow Yun-Fat is not in it. Right. Spoiler alert. Michelle Yeoh is in it. She is, but I remember it being a pretty small role. Zee Zhang said she wouldn't do it unless it was Ang Lee.

Donnie Yen is the star. And then Harry Shum Jr. from Glee is like the second lead. One of my favorite martial artists. I remember it being weird. But yeah, we have this beautiful flashback and she goes back and we are back to where we were and Jen's like, cool story, you gotta go away. Right. And who's hiding in the crowds now?

Dark Cloud. Dark Cloud in the crowds. Right, so he's back. Now that we've set him up he's like let's get married yeah and she's like that's another bit with the dart in the parade and he like fires the darned her carriage and it's like she looks at the dart like there's i'm not sure what she's thinking i know well that's it yeah it's like after all that time his move is okay i'm gonna wait by my time by and then when she's getting married and the procession is happening

I'll just kind of like jump down and be like please marry me sort of like not tactically sound and then he like goes to Michelle Yeoh

and Xiaoyan Fan and he's like so has she said anything about me how'd that work is that making waves does that feel chill I love how

Li Mu Bai is like alright bro let's talk about this and then Shuyuan drops in and she's like no no no come over here I know which I love how Limu Bai is like, all right, bro, let's talk about this. And then Shuyuan drops in. She's like, no, no, no. Come over here. I know, which I love. Don't talk to this guy.

I just love it. Right, where he's like, stillness is imagine. April is sedating our teenage daughter. We'll give it to you. Come over here. Oh, so you have a crush on her? This is what you should do. Stand stoically and never express your love.

And she's like, okay, hold my beer. Tell her that you love her as you're dying and then carry that feeling with you into eternity. Definitely wait until the toxin has flooded 90% of your bloodstream. Your blood has reversed its course. You want to only give yourself time for one kiss. Leave them wanting more. Yeah, definitely.

But that's sort of what this movie is about. Yeah. It's all passion and excitement. And Limu Bai is like, you're like a space alien. But without necessarily endorsing repression this movie does sort of recognize that the idea of a feeling is in some ways more pure

than actually living with it. Well sure. It's very Remain to the Day. Their love becomes so strong because it's never been expressed. Nothing is real. Nothing can be tainted. But I think Jen's having more fun. It's like never been expressed. Doesn't seem like an option. Nothing is real. Nothing can be tainted. Yeah.

But like, I think Jen's having more fun. I mean, she has crazy desert adventure. She has tons of hot cave sex. She has like three awesome fight scenes. She's such an interesting character. I mean,

she doesn't really fall into a particular type. She's a fascinating character. This has never happened in a Hollywood movie. She reminds me a lot of Christine Lady Bird, whatever the fuck her last name is, McPherson. Yeah, a particular type a fascinating character this has never happened in a Hollywood movie she reminds me a lot of Christine Lady Bird whatever the fuck

her last name is McPherson yeah just cause she is dimensional in a way that you don't often get characters of any gender

and she's a pain in the ass women are not usually on screen she's the villain of the movie who causes all the trouble but she's also the protagonist

and the hero she has an adversarial relationship with the mom character who she also loves and is indebted to of course and she kills and she's also the protagonist and the hero. She has an adversarial relationship with the mom character, who she also loves and is indebted to. And she is responsible for her father's death. And she eats Doritos with Tracy Letts. Doritos.

Let's get a big bag of Doritos. Doritos. Doritos. But it's amazing how much of the iconic scenes from this movie, what percentage of them are crammed to the last 35 minutes or so. I, in my mind's eye, not having seen this movie what percentage of them are crammed to the last like 35 minutes or so I in my mind's eye not having seen this movie since 2000

remembered there being like 30 to 40 minutes of Chow Yun-Fat has been poisoned he's slowly dying in the cave and it's like two scenes it happens like

within the last 15 minutes of the movie I remember there was fight shit going on and they kept like cutting back to the cave and she was like how you doing

and he's like quiet let me just breathe a little bit because there's that whole notion of like I remember there was fight shit going on and they kept like cutting back to the cave and she was like, how you doing? And he's like, quiet. Let me just breathe a little bit. Because there's that whole notion of like, let me try to lower my energy as much as possible. I'll try and hold on to this. I remember that being like an act of the movie. But it is like the last 30 minutes are jam fucking packed.

Well, right. Because there's, all right. So there's the flashback. There's the wedding, which, you know, doesn't do great. After that, she's's like let me dress up as a boy and just go to a bar right yeah goes to a bar she does like a fucking uh phantom thread order right she ordered she practically says like go slay a school of fish and then she like roadhouses everyone right and then people come up now they're being weird because they're like

hey what's up what's your name well it's like what's your name man it's like she rolls into a poker club and she's like I just won the world series of poker like I'm the best poker player

in the world she has the sword she has the sword and she keeps on like fucking like when everyone's always like I'm golden iron monkey god and she's like

your name's too long shut the fuck up she's like how about this I mean that scene rules in ways that I don't think humans up she's like how about this I mean that scene rules in ways that I don't think humans have found the language

to totally describe I remember that scene was her BAFTA clip and I was and I was just like imagine that being an Oscar love how

just taking down a whole bar something I discovered in the process of this episode how the guy who does that immortal fall off the banister

is the same guy who has the abacus and the reason he has an abacus and the next shot is when he's playing a different character ostensibly is because he had broken

his arm during the fall and they still want him there and he's like what can I hold with one arm all right I'll just do math at her and I mean you could beat

someone pretty badly with a big abacus but that's so funny yeah she's fine she's a mad she can some dressing in men's clothes can finally sort of like live freely be who she wants to be show that she is the badass warrior that she is and that fight scene just just come on it's a cinema i am the invincible sword goddess

armed with a green destiny talks the whole time there's no spit and rap game the other thing with this movie is like obviously the choreography is amazing obviously he shoots and edits it beautifully he also all of these fight scenes have story beats in them like it's not just one Obviously, the choreography is amazing. Obviously, he shoots and edits it beautifully. All of these fight scenes have story beats in them. It's not just one-upmanship of here's some crazy shit. Even the big Michelle Yeoh-Zhi Zhang fight is the story beats of Michelle Yeoh running out of weapons and having to figure out different ways to fight her. Which is like the thing I love in action movies where like there are actual like character moments that accelerate and heighten and deepen the bits of actual fighting. It's fucking well done. That's everything.

There's no fight scene in this movie where every beat isn't sort of expressing the characters. But it still has the approach of like a crappy Marvel movie or whatever. It's like, oh, well now we should have a fight scene with weapons I guess. But it falls so smoothly and it's so perfectly built up and it's like, you know, it never feels super fluid. What bums me out in, say, like a lot of Marvel movies

is like, okay, we've justified why It would be funny if these guys fight now, right? But it's like we've justified why they now need to fight, but then the fight is totally devoid of story or character. The fight is just a funny. It's like a porno. It's like they're going to have sex now, and then they have sex. Right.

It's a porno scene. But in this, the fight is as expressive as a screenplay. I mean, it's just like the story is continuing. It's not just being put on pause so we can sell some tickets. Right, which I think is one of the reasons why it became such a crossover success. Because obviously the visuals of the fights are crazy. In a post-Matrix landscape, people were like,

oh, let's go deeper into the sort of thing that Matrix is referencing. Yes. But I also think people get invested in the fights in this movie because you care about what's going on. Of course. Like it's not just fucking Romeo Must Die,

which Jet Li took instead of this film do you know that he was first choice that was a mistake yes romeo must die has that gimmick where when he kicks someone it cuts to like an x-ray and you see their bones breaking i remember that romeo must die also has a line where someone looks at him and goes sorry romeo, but you gotta die. Wait, is Romeo Must Die Good? Kind of. How does he not say Romeo? It's Romeo and Juliet. It's in the title.

He says, sorry, Romeo, but you gotta die. That was a mistake. Why did he do that? I don't know. DMX? I think he thought, look, I'm trying to make a big Hollywood career here. I can't go back and do some Chinese film.

I'm trying to cross the pond. And then this movie outgrossed every Jet Li film. And also, Jet Li's most successful American release was Fearless, which was sort of advertised as, if you like Crashing Tiger, here's another Chinese movie for you. Not Danny the Dog? That's his most successful release.

The one. I would bet that that is his most successful U.S. gross. Not including like lethal weapon or expendables. I'm saying for Jet Li

vehicle that's certainly outgrossed the one that outgrossed Unleashed. Box office mode just being weird. I'll let you know later.

That movie did weirdly well. In Jet Li's defense speaking of the He's in Hero too. He is in Hero. Unleashed. Box office mojo's being weird, so I'll let you know later. That movie did weirdly well. Yeah, okay. In Jet Li's defense, speaking of the... He's in Hero, too. He is in Hero. Which is probably

his second highest grossing domestic. I mean, those are the two. I think it's Hero and then Fearless. But speaking of the themes of Grouch and Tiger, you gotta have huge regrets in your life

for it to be meaningful at the end. So he, on his deathbed, will be able to look Ang Lee in the eye and kiss him on the lips and say, I've always loved you.

Oh, that's an interesting point that maybe Jet Li wasn't ready to do Crouching Tiger because he hadn't yet turned down Crouching Tiger. That is correct. Like having not done

Crouching Tiger, he would have been prepared for the role. So there's the fight that you just described between Jen and Shulian. That's my favorite. Which is my favorite fight.

We can't brush over it. I mean, it's like possibly the greatest fight scene ever. And it is also Lady Bird fighting with her mother. Yes. Like that's the arc of, that is the arc of that scene, right?

Like that's where at a certain point it changes from them being mad at each other to Jen being like, no, no, yeah, go ahead. Pick a weapon. Pick a weapon.

It's also, let's keep doing this. Watching the men scatter out when they get down there and start to fight. I mean, like, this is a movie that really, I mean, not that it did poorly. I mean, it's hard to imagine doing this well if it came out now, but really sort of speaks to where we are in the culture now in terms of, you know, female representation and strength. I mean, this movie was tapping into things that Wonder Woman would have to, like, run around to 18 years later. Yeah, you're right.

Within the confines of what was allowed of women in the culture they describe, it's a very feminist, like, you know. It is interesting that, like, outside of Fearless and Hero getting, like, pretty wide releases and doing strong numbers this movie kind of didn't influence anything else. You know? Well, you know,

without this movie you don't have Hero coming out in the United States. That's what I'm saying. I mean, the only thing it influenced was domestic releases

of other But you can't though. It's like You can't I mean, that was a little more limited but like No,

that was a big hit in America. Yeah, I mean like well, Zhang Yimou got to release like a trio of films there yeah but like golden flower but like hero was like number one in the box office two weeks in a row but hollywood doesn't have the ability to rip this off is the thing it's like they don't have the talent um honestly they've been trying to for like the 10 years before not with the costume movies but with like they were trying to make like

the replacement killers and all that stuff right can we make the killer like for American audiences I mean they also don't really have it's hard to find the context because in a world where martial arts

was so central to right the culture and when you're looking at like 18th century China whenever this movie takes place that's one thing but in American context

it's hard to like justify why people are fighting each other so skillfully 1778 it would be really hard for them to rip off but uh yeah greatest fight scene possibly ever staged uh it's just chill just super chill it's fucking insane uh it just gets better and better and better and they get angry and it's also it has that sense of uh vitriol that almost all the other fight scenes

are deliberately missing in this yes this is, this is the one where it's getting pumped up. And then, yeah, obviously, when then we have the final fight where Jade shows up. I mean, Jade's the one who's got all the vitriol. It's like barely a fight. I mean, like the violence, they don't want to,

I mean, it's a neat little beat, but like they don't want to make the violence into something beautiful necessarily. No. It's like this is... You know what? If they didn't want to make it beautiful, then they shouldn't have started flying on top of trees. Well, there's the tree scene in between!

Oh, the tree scene. That's why I was trying to direct it. And that's right. Whereas her fight with her mother is very passionate and inflamed. Yeah. And her fight with her father... Tracy Letts rolls up and he's just like, don't tell your mom, but I'm going to give you the money for school.

Exactly. Right. You can go to the Wudang Mountain. I did realize what the greatest, not greatest in terms of, in a pejorative way, greatest in terms of largest influence of this movie was on Hollywood, which was just fucking 15 years of any time an Asian character does anything

in a comedy being referred to as crouching blank, hidden blank. The result was that it just played up our most racist tendencies. In the same way that Slumdog Millionaire for 15 years after is just like, oh, look, it's Slumdog blank over here. I hate everybody. Chill out, Griffin. It's going to be okay. It's not going to be okay.

It's great. It's great. Fuck you. Okay, so they dance on top of trees. Oh, and it's like at this point, the fighting is so abstract that they're not even making physical contact with one another.

He just like taps on the bamboo tree. Yeah. And then he kind of looks at her. I like that. You know, where she's going by him. Oh my God, it's the best. He's like, oh, but I'm still and she's moving. What does this mean?

It's like a pure abstraction at this point. I'll definitely figure it out once I'm dying. Which is like five minutes later. This movie does put a lot of stock in the things that we realize on our deathbeds. Like Ang Lee's really putting all his chips in that pot. Yeah, which is, you know, I mean, this is, if you're going to compare it to a Western, and I think the Wuxia movie kind of has that cachet, you know,

everyone figures everything out right at the end of a Western. Sure, sure. Right when it's too late to do anything about it. Right, exactly. Maybe I am a son of a bitch, but I guess I'm going to die now. Like, whatever. I don't know.

He dies. He gets, he gets. Yeah. I mean, that scene is, they put him up on the trees. They had the wire work. I just don't know how they got the camera up there. I have no idea. But they did it. Yeah, that mean, that scene is they put him up on the trees. They had the wire work. I still don't know how they got the camera up there. I have no idea. But they did it.

Yeah, that flips me out. And also how they got all the wires up there. Yeah. Like, you think about how high the sort of whatever rig they were using had to be above them, which is already above the trees, the camera. It's insane. It's totally insane. And then he dies. Yeah, they go to a cave jade fox makes her move

she shoots one billion arrows at him he chops them all away which is super cool and then he all but one all but one and he cuts up her sword and like kind of just directs it back at her that's how she dies right he like hits all the little needles and they all fly back at her. I could have sworn there was something with a sword. Her own poison. Yeah, I know. That's what claims her. Because yeah, I mean,

there's that question of like, well, if Jade's not even that good, like if she's already been beaten by Jen, how's she killing people? But it's like, you know, poison, that's sort of like the trickster's art. Like, you know, it's like... Oh yeah, poison is a recurring theme in this movie

about, you know, how it's, you know, for the bitter pills. But then... Right. art. Poison is a recurring theme in this movie. It's for the bitter pills. Then in a very James Jamison flourish at the end there, he gets to have this wonderful dying monologue where he looks at her and he says,

I would rather be a ghost. It's Clint Eastwood in the movie, by the way. I would rather be a ghost drifting by your side these are the crashing tiger action figures carry on as a condemned soul or like

here are the crashing tiger action figures the Limu Bai one's pretty good then enter heaven without you because of your love I will never be

a lonely spirit and you know what it works dammit it does work but it is kind of funny when he's dying he's like I love you

I'm sorry that we're never going to be together but I will be a kind of funny when he's dying. He's like, I love you. I'm sorry that we're never going to be together, but I will be a ghost that walks alongside you. We can make out for like 45 seconds if you want. I think I got that left in the tank. I can make out, and then I'm going to be an eternal spirit that walks alongside you. Okay, I got to go. Ben's going to show me something on his arm.

Oh, here's the costume for the fuckmaster. Oh, okay, there's the costume for the fuckmaster. It's pretty good, right? It's pretty good. Can I see, Ben? Yeah, of course. Yeah. for the fuck last night. It's pretty good, right?

It's pretty good. Can I see, man? Yeah, of course. Yeah. But no, it's like a Roman holiday sort of ending. It's like we know in our hearts that we were in love with one another

and that is better and more pure. By the way, here's a picture of the Tickle Me Ben doll. Oh, wow. That's a picture of the Tickle Me Ben. Does it come with some audio? It comes with some audio. Let me pull the string.

Stop fucking tickling me. What's wrong with you? Lee Mubaz. How? He's not Marin. You just pull out the mic. Stop fucking tickling me. What's wrong with you? Lee Mubai. How? He's not Marin. You just pull out the mic. Oh, you know what? I'm sorry.

That's the Tickle Me Marin. Let me scan over here. He's like, who are you guys? Okay, let me scan over here. Okay, here's the Tickle Me Van. Wet. Big. Fuck yeah.

I didn't really, I didn't study at the Wudon school but like I heard about it yeah right you know one of the Wudon guys yeah I mean

they're cool I know those guys I used to work the door over in Beijing in the Forbidden City I don't know yeah I remember

the day he came in and said he was gonna do a jazz fight this is good David's throwing his cell phone against the wall. This is good, guys. I should mention that. Like most things, I am nothing.

First of all, jinx for you guys all eyeing at the same time. Yeah. Secondly, I should mention that before this episode recorded, when we were talking, I was talking about something that made me very angry. And I picked up my chair and acted like I was going to throw it across the room. And there's a big window in our studio that faces out to the offices. And Rachel's really alarmed. Like four different people who work at Audioboom thought I was losing my mind.

You are losing your mind. The window looks exactly like the square window that they have when we, the face touching scene that we sort of brush past. When, you know, and he's like declares his love for her. And she's like, I get it now. Like finally 90 minutes of this movie.

I get that you want me. And that's what his love for her. And she's like, I get it now. Finally, 90 minutes of this movie. I get that you want me. And that's what the window looks like. So imagine watching Griffin throw a chair through that window. And wondering whether they should call the cops. I wish they could have called the cops. Yeah, but this is my favorite kind of movie. No, I agree. I mean, it's better that way.

Yeah, it's better. Let me ask you this, though. What if they fucked and flew at the same time? Well, that's what Jen gets, right? She goes back to Fuck Mountain right after this. She goes to Fuck Mountain where Chang Chen's hanging out. This is the first of Ang Lee's Fuck Mountain diptych.

His sex mountain movies. Both were transgressive in their own ways. She gets to have one last romp. Mm-hmm. And then in a very bittersweet

and ambiguous ending, she flies. Flies away. Flies away. Yeah. Jumps off that fucking mountain. Goes like this.

Yeah. I'm doing a good This was one of those years where like the Oscars seemed wide open. Yeah, I wanted to talk about

the Oscars. Where it kind of felt like, I think it felt like four of, those years where like uh the oscar seemed wide open yeah i wanted to talk about the oscar where it kind of felt like i think it felt like four of i mean how many oscar races have two movies by the same director nominated versus a sword and sandals epic and a chinese martial arts movie right and then the fourth nominee was chocolate the fifth nominee is chocolate right you know let's get something but i feel like people thought it was a pretty even race between gladiator traffic and The fourth nominee was Chocolat. The fifth nominee is Chocolat. Right. You know, let's get something. But I feel like people thought it was a pretty even race between Gladiator, Traffic, and Crouching Tiger, that it could go any one of the three ways. And people started to sense that Crouching Tiger

might be the Jackie Robinson that breaks the foreign language barrier for Best Picture. Right. And it should have. Everyone thought he was going to win Best Director because they thought Soderbergh would cancel himself out. But he didn't. He didn't.

Luckily, Ang Lee got to win Best Director two times. I still thought Soderbergh would cancel himself out. But he didn't. Luckily Ang Lee got to win best director two times. You know what? I still resent Soderbergh for just not pulling a full Ving Rhames and being like, you know what? Ang Lee deserved it. Everyone come on stage. All the nominees. Stephen Daldry, Ang Lee, Ridley Scott, Stephen Soderbergh.

Come on stage. And then he came on stage for his own bit. Yeah, what if he Ving Rhames-ed himself for Aaron Brockovich? He's like, to be honest, I think I did a better job. I did a great job on Traffic, but Aaron Brockovich, that was the real movie. Come on, come on.

To my favorite living filmmaker. To the guy who's engraving it, and he's just like, no, I won for Aaron Brockovich. Just write that in. No, I mean, I actually really like Gladiator. I think it's a great movie. I can't believe it won Best Picture. I find Gladiator kind of boring. I think it's a great movie. I can't believe it won Best Picture. I find Gladiator kind of boring.

I think it's fine. I find you kind of boring. Boy, that's not true. No, I find you. Because we're very good friends when we do a podcast together. I find you very exciting. Thank you. It's all right.

Russell Crowe is a very convincing Spanish man. Yes, he was. The Spaniard. Watch out for him, Maximus. Yeah, it's weird that that film won. Gladiator? yeah because I feel like the narrative Traffic won 4 of it's 5 Oscars and it only missed out on Picture

Crouching Tiger won 4 out of 8 yeah Crouching Tiger won 10? yeah because I think Crouching Tiger well Gladiator probably got a lot too yeah Gladiator got 12 Crouching Tiger got 10 so but Crouching Tiger won best score? yeah because Gladiator got 2 acting albums. Crouching Tiger got 10. So, but Crouching Tiger won best score. Yeah, because Gladiator got two acting noms.

That's the difference. Best score, best art direction, best cinematography, and foreign language film. Okay. Those were its four wins. Traffic won editing, director, supporting actor, and adapted screenplay. Right. You know where Gladiator didn't win? In the court of public opinion. Yeah.

My friends. It was the highest grossing movie. Yeah, in a minute. We're going to do it. What? What's the box office? We're going to do it. We're just talking to Oscar.

We're just talking Oscars. Well, now we're going to spend 15 minutes talking about the lyrics of the closing credit song. Yeah, of course. Love Across Time. And we have two hours left in this episode. I love Before Time. I love Before Time. I'm sorry.

And it's not After Time. It's Very Different Love. Yeah. And I also might sing the song from the credits of Return of the King just because I really like it. Let's just talk about best original song for just 30 seconds because the nominees are the Bob Dylan song from Wonder Boys. Times of Change.

Times of Change. Which that wins. That wins. And he Skypes in, right? Yes. I remember he was not. He Skypes in. He was like in concert.

They do a live performance. I want an Oscar but it's a live like televised performance they're all watching and then they like cut back to him

and he's like I want an Oscar I know an Oscar then A Fool in Love from Meet the Parents a song I do not remember

I do Randy Newman when you're a fool in love I swear to God that's how the song goes when all the states are sympathies it's opening credits remember. I do. Randy Newman. When you're full of love. I swear to God that's how the song goes. When all the stakes are sympathies. That song's a banger.

He wrote it in real time. When you're full of love. The one song from Emperor's New Groove that Sting wrote that survived My Funny Friend and Me. Which plays over the end credits. David, what was the fifth nominee? A Love Before Time? No, I already mentioned that one. What was the fifth nominee? In the time no I already mentioned that one what was the fifth nominee in the year 2000 in the year 2000

probably probably 2000 from it was La Bamba nominated for I have seen it all oh fuck dancer in the dark no really that was yeah I thought that was the

your wife once helped you psych yourself up to wear a swan dress. This is true. This is the moment I realized I was in love with my wife. When I was dressed as Bjork's swan dress. You probably would have been doomed to a Xiao Yong Fat, Michelle Yeoh relationship of never expressing it until that moment when she gave you the courage to wear the dress and say yes to the dress. I said yes to the swan dress. All right.

So now Mr. Fun Pants over here wants us to play the box. the dress and say yes to the dress she i said yes to the swan dress yeah all right so now mr mr fun pants over here you know what let's let ben guess the box office this time if he's so eager to do it now he could see it that's the problem ben looks terrified right now uh no don't have okay i could try what's the whitest this movie ever went oh the widest i think it's right now what's the widest release the widest it gets is 2,227 screens in march wow so this movie came out in december that's some big fat it's a slow expansion like it never you know it never like ballooned it's fascinating because like sony pictures classics are like they're the slow and steady guys they never try to get like a fox searchlight like crossover hit.

Their second highest grossing movie is like a film that made $25 million. Sure. Like Capote is in their top five of all time. Sure. And they had like no experience releasing a film this wide. Right. Midnight in Paris, I guess, is their second biggest. But they, I saw Michael Barker, co-president of Sony Pictures Classic

talk once and he said the moment I realized we were going to cross 100 million dollars was I was at a mall and I heard two kids talking

hyping each other up to go see Crouching Tiger or they'd just seen it and they were like man the fucking subtitles were so cool and he was like somehow the subtitles

of the movie became a cool thing yeah cool yeah this movie did eventually platform all the way became a cool thing. Cool. Yeah, this movie did eventually platform all the way to a totally wide release. Which is insane. It took four months.

Yeah. The box office. What's the highest it ever did in one weekend? $10 million on February 16th. Yes. Crazy. Okay. Well, it was Valentine's Day weekend. Everyone wanted to go have their forbidden love. Pretty much. Its highest position was number five. Which is nuts. No, number four. Crazy. Okay. Well, it was Valentine's Day weekend. Everyone wanted to go have their forbidden love.

Pretty much. Its highest position was number five, which is... Nuts. No, number four, sorry. Okay. Which is the weekend before. Yeah. Okay.

It opens at number 15. It makes a very solid $41,450 per screen on 16 screens. Lincoln Plaza is one of them. Yes, that's right. David bought a ticket. R.I.P. Hell yeah. The first movie, number one movie at the box office.

This is December. Give me the weekend again. December 8th, 2000. December 8th, 2000. Is the number one movie of 2000. It's the number one movie of 2000 and it is called Dr. Seuss' How the Grinch Stole Christmas. That's right. Everyone forgets how much fucking money that movie made.

That is grim. That money made so much goddamn money. The Grinch. The Grinch. There's another Grinch movie coming this year. I know. And it's like all in on

how he likes to twerk or whatever. It literally looks... You know the way they used to skin video games for a new movie coming out where it's like, we just took Street Fighter

but we put the characters from Lethal Weapon 3 on top of them? It looks like that with Despicable Me. It does. It looks like they skin Despicable...

That looks so bad. It's going to make $7 billion. It looks so bad. It's going to make so much money. And also, Bandit Cumberbatch is playing the Grinch. Oh, cool. He sounds kind of like the Grinch. I see the trailer. He's doing a fucking American accent.

He loves to do that accent. Bandit Cumberbatch speaking like Bandit Cumberbatch sounds like the Grinch. Instead, he's like, hey, look, I'm a Grinch. I guess the Grinch is like canonically American, which is weird. But in the fucking cartoon,

he was what? He was Boris Karloff? Boris Karloff was the narrator. I guess you didn't hear him. He doesn't talk. I can already picture myself having... But he's always had that gruff, deep voice. You're going to have to review this movie.

I'm going to have to write some review about how like the Grinch is an expression of capitalism. Yes. You're going to have to go see this movie on a weekday night. I got to see these fucking movies and I have to find a way

to make them interesting for myself. Yeah. Like amuse myself when I'm writing the review and inevitably it's going to have to go see this movie on a weekday night. I got to see these fucking movies and I have to find a way to make them interesting for myself. Like amuse myself when I'm writing the review. And inevitably it's going to be like how the Grinch exposes the Donald Trump era for what it is. There it is. Also the guy, I'm forgetting his name, but the dude who directed all of the Gorillaz stuff had been hired to direct the movie. And it was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. You're talking about the Illumination movie. The Illumination Grinch. And everyone and it was like oh that's kind of interesting you're talking about the illumination movie yeah the illumination Grinch and everyone's like oh that's kind of cool and then like four years of silence and then the trailer comes out and they're

like oh yeah we fired that guy three years ago we didn't tell anybody uh still Ron Howard's biggest movie is the Grinch still I think Jim Carrey's biggest movie uh are you sure it's not the heart of the sea uh in the heart of the sea. Oh, you're right. That made $4 billion. Right. All right. Number two. Common mistake. Number two.

Grinch was number one like six weeks in a row. This is its fourth week. Okay. Number two is a new release. It's an action film. It's cold. It's a cold action film. It's a chilly movie. It's a chilly movie.

Not chill factor. Nope. It's a winter picture. Does it take place in an arctic zone? Correct. It's a win it's a winter picture does it take place in an asurotic zone correct it's a movie that i saw i don't remember it is it vertical limit that's right thank you vertical limit you want something chris o'donnell really embarrassing go ahead much like i still only know my multiplication tables through schoolhouse rock and playing those songs in my head uh-huh uh the way i remember the difference between horizontal and vertical is vertical limit tables through Schoolhouse Rock and playing those songs in my head. The way I

remember the difference between horizontal and vertical is Vertical Limit. Great. I go, oh, vertical's that way because that's the point of that movie. Hold your breath. My favorite thing about Vertical Limit is that Robin Tunney is billed above the title. Hell yeah. Weird. O'Donnell and Tunney?

O'Donnell, Paxton, Tunney, Scott Glenn. Great first scene. All four above the title? That movie is really only worth watching until the opening title comes. It's a good first scene. It's a great example of Martin Campbell only being good at making masterpiece James Bond movies and everything else. And The Mask of Zorro. And Mask of Zorro.

Perfect. Did you see that tweet someone was posting from old premiere magazines, an article about Chris O'Donnell being the next big leading man and how he was – Leonardo DiCaprio was having to pick up his rejected roles and they were like, this guy, sky's the limit with him. He's like a little Tom Cruise. It's like, what do you mean little Tom Cruise? How little is Chris O'Donnell? How tall is Chris O'Donnell? I'm betting on the wrong horse. Apparently, he's negative 5'2".

All right. Number three is another action picture. Okay. Starring a big star of 2000. But only 2000? Ben's trying to figure this one out. He was hot. This was his year.

This is when he was starting to get big. And he was already like really big this year. And there was a lot of controversy around this movie. Around this one. Around something that happened on set. Something sexy. Something sexy happened on set. Something sexy. Something sexy happened on set. This was his second movie that year, but this year was kind of his breakthrough year?

Correct. Sexy criminal or sexy exciting? Sure. Was it an affair? Yes. It's not proof of life, is it? It is proof of life, my friend. Russell Crowe and Meg Ryan boning down. They down dennis quaid all sad i saw that movie in theaters so reluctantly i just remember

sitting there being like why is it a hackford yeah yeah oh it's a hackford oh boy number four has anyone's name ever been more rude number four at the box office is your favorite movie, man. You love this fucking movie. It's probably like number one of 2000. Number four. It's like a, I guess it's sort of a thriller. It's my favorite movie of 2000. Obviously not an Oscar play. No.

Is it a family film? Yeah. It's like a horror thriller. Oh, Unbreakable. Yeah. Unbreakable. Fingered. Twisted.

Thank you. It was the kids. Rosetta Stone. I grew up in England. I just got to see producer Ben Hosley hit the twisted button in real time.

He does it with a sort of like he was very resigned. It was it was like he was filing like a TPS report. Link.

Yeah. But I and I you know I can't hear it it's not playing live in the studio but I there was like a little bit of fairy dust coming off the keyboard.

But Ben just kind of sighs drops his head I put it together in my mind and it was beautiful. So, yeah, then there's a whole bunch together. Grinch is 18, Vertical Limit's 15, Proof of Life is 10, Unbreakable is 7 and a half. Like, it's all like...

Okay. And then number five is a new release based on a popular game that one of those movies where you're like, oh. A vidya game. No. A board game. Kind of. Zathuraathura no that's zathura dungeons and dragons dungeons and dragons that's right thora birch marlon wayans justin whelan justin whelan is that his name whelan i think that's the guy from lois and clark yeah that wasn't a jeremy irons joint no it's not no no no no no he was not even

tickling the ivories at that point. Can you tell me the director of Dungeons and Dragons? Did they direct anything else ever again? I think this was his debut. He did make at least a couple movies afterwards. He made An American Haunting and Getaway. Weird. Getaway, the Ethan Hawke, Selena Gomez movie?

Correct. Fuck. Oh, wait wait i interviewed him what uh yeah because there's a shot in getaway that is like intensely illegal and i and like could have murdered a lot of people i was fascinated by it the weird uh the car chase yeah yeah it's like a it's a pov like 90 mile an hour car chase. He does a lot of dashboard cam stuff. Yeah, that movie's unwatchable. And then for one shot at the very end of the movie, it's just like... He becomes Eisenstein. I mean... I read that.

I read that. It's insane. I mean, it should never be. Only in wherever in Russia they were shooting this would they be able to do this. So can you recall his name? No, God, no. I have no idea. I just remember speaking to him and he thought that he was just like taking things to the next level.

I think I might have read that interview. And I'm just like, okay. Yeah. His name is Courtney Solomon. Yes. Anyway, so that's the top five. We've also got 102 Dalmatians. Yeah.

Rugrats in Paris, the movie. 102 Dalmatians, probably one of my favorite Johan Griffith vehicles. Well done. I saw that in theaters. You said, okay, 102 Dalmatians, what was the one after? Rugrats in Paris, the movie. Yeah, I mean, a great film. Saw that in theaters you said okay 102 Dalmatian what was the one after

Rugrats in Paris the movie yeah I mean a great film saw that in theaters one of the few sequels that's better than the original okay both pale in comparison to the Hanukkah episode

just saying true Hanukkah episode's fucking amazing Rugrats doesn't get enough credit for how chewy it was I know Stu Pickles is a hot guy

yeah and it's like you got the Eastern European grandparents yeah I know I mean Hey Arnold was playing but that comes later yeah but Rugrats is so dewy uh it's so good i know meet the parents

uh yeah well it's also jewish because the villain of regrets is a wasp girl right it's like a super waspy wait meet the parents meet the parents when you're fooling love there's no surprise i just remember in the movie i think he just sings it, but at the Oscars, it was him and... Ben is just sick of every tangent. Susanna Hoff from the Bengals. Okay. Because she was married to Jay Roach. She did the Oscars with him.

That is the craziest fucking thing. How do you know that? Even I'm horrified that you know that. Jay Roach, director of the campaign, was directed. One of the Bengals is married to Jay Roach. Divorce now. I got bangles. Could you milk me? Hey, when you're a

bangle in love. Bounce. Don Roos movie? Wait, is Bounce a movie about an Aflac, when it's outro plane crash movie? Don Roos. It's a weird movie. That was his blank check. Men of Honor. Ben Affleck, when it's outro, plane crash movie? Yes. Don Roose. It's a weird movie. Yeah.

That was his blank check. Men of Honor. Yeah, you know. Men of Honor, that's a movie that doesn't exist. It is. I mean, that's Keebo Gooding Jr.

from like 96 to 2005. His movies don't exist. I remember seeing the trailer for that in like August and being like, Oscars always. De Niro. Gooding Jr. Theron. I wishing Jr. Theron

Theron? It's a period piece They're dropping him into the ocean It's gonna be huge The first black scuba diver

ever You're right And the guy who was real racist Yeah Do you guys wanna see the new poster for Sherlock Gnomes?

Yeah I can't wait It's a Deadpool spoof You wanna see it? Yeah It's like a perfect storm of You want to see it? Yeah. It's like a perfect storm of things that make me want to retire and live in a cave. A gnome pool! Kicking grass is a new phase!

What do you think? Does this accurately describe how you feel right now, Ben? It's not sad enough. Does Sherlock Gnomes have the most aggressive outdoor marketing campaign of any movie in history because they started putting like subway and bus ads up for that movie six months before it came out it's still not out those ads have been up since october um it's coming out though will it ever i don't know how about this for a character sherlock foams he's got shaving cream all over his face can he also have the foam fingers oh absolutely

and he has a foam pipe wait this guy's coming in with a sack of money thank you so much ben why would you waste that what when i'm clearly running out of dollar shave club ask mascot characters for the ad reads. Don't worry, we'll bring him in. You probably heard him six months ago, guys. Get ready for Sherlock Holmes. That reminds me that my secret hope for this episode, other than

that Ben would, or someone would say twisted and Ben would hit the button and I would see it happen and become a man, is that we would do an ad read. We're like, it's so far in the future, we don't have ads yet. What do you mean, E uh that we were doing ad read that we were doing yeah we we were like it's so far in the future we don't have ads what do you mean eric we did an ad read yeah we did a great ad read cut that out because we definitely get specifically paid to do the stop talking i'm gonna actually stop you money is more important to me than integrity david

loves money i do hashtag david loves money er I do. Hashtag David loves money. Ehrlich, are you happy? Yeah, you know, this is a hard movie to make funny. I think we were pretty funny. I mean, you know, it's a gift. But also, this show is very intellectual. You have to remember, it's not just about the laughs. It's also about the...

I feel like I just kept being like, no, but let's talk about emotions. I know. Well, everything you said about the movie was very smart. Yeah. I just feel it so deeply in the cockles of my heart. But that's the promise. The blank check guarantee. A chin stroke for every guffaw. You go, hmm, ha ha ha ha.

And I'm done. Don't walk out. Alright, we're done. Yeah, we're done. We talked for two hours and ten minutes. Yeah. This is a nice normal length for an episode of Blank Check. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. What's the problem? I feel like the show's getting too long. Oh, really? You want to get it shorter?

All right, all right. Before we wrap, let me just do some damage control here on behalf of your audience again just to bookend this episode. The show's not getting too long. I'm sorry everybody this episode maybe but not in general and we're gonna need some more nicknames I mean I don't

care as a listener if you need like a plaque on the wall or like a cue card to read them off I just I need it just to recognize and reorient myself in this world to find a center to not just get lost in the

deep void of sadness that I feel after 30 years of studying on Wudon Mountain Ben can you ask Audioboom if they can buy us a plaque? Yeah I'll get right on that Thank you all for listening Please remember to rate, review, subscribe Go to blankies.right.com for some real nerdy shit.

Thanks to Andrew Guto for our social media. Leigh Montgomery for our theme song. Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds for our artwork. Ben is rubbing his temples vigorously. Anything else? Is there a burger report this episode? No? I don't think so.

I can check. You want me to check? Maybe there is. Maybe there isn't. Stay through the credits to find out. I don't know. I can check you want me to check maybe there is maybe there isn't stay through the credits to find out I don't know looks like there isn't

so enjoy not listening to a burger report sure Ben is serious another episode in the books great job guys

the burger report at the end of the Terms of Endearment episode The Terrence Malick one? was a hell of a twist. Woo! That was hot stuff. Yeah.

We didn't get info on whether or not he was wearing the hat, though. Did we? I want to know about that hat. Gotta know about that hat. That goes on the Terrence Malick action figure

for sure. Gotta know about that hat. Give me that hat. Give me that hat. See, Ben likes this. That makes me laugh. All right. Okay, Ben. Stop laughing. I'm trying to end the hat. See, Ben likes this. That makes me laugh. All right. Okay, Ben, stop laughing.

I'm trying to end the podcast. I thought we were done. No, because... And as always... When you're a fool in love...