Blank Check with Griffin & David - Dark Shadows with Jamie Loftus

Episode Date: April 7, 2019

This week on Blank Check, comedian Jamie Loftus The Bechdel Cast discusses 2012's goth soap opera, Dark Shadows. But has Timmy "the boy from Burbank" Burton become the hill man in his later years? Where is Sullyville located in America? Why does the climatic fight scene only further reinforce ones disliking of Depp? Together they examine Jamie's history with the original series, Hot Topic's influence, the problem with Deadpool being someone's favorite comedian and Alfred Molina we stan. 

Here are my terms. Goest thou to hell and swiftly please, and there may Azamadis himself suckle from your diseased podcast. Great. Disease what? What's the word? Teat. Yeah. Ozymandias. Ozymandias?

It's not Ozymandias. It's Ozymandias. You know, everyone's 17th favorite character. 17th favorite hell demon? Yes. Hello, everybody. My name is Griffin Newman. A lot of hell talk and you don't see hell. No. David Simp.

He's never made a hell movie, has he? No. I mean, I don't think so. Beetlejuice has the underworld. Undead dimensions. Yes.

But, no, I guess not. No. Simpy Hollow has a hell tree. Yeah, he has a lot of like portals to hell

right right hell's over there yeah it's always in the neighborhood it's right over your shoulder my name my name is Griffin Newman

you already said that I'm David Sims I was trying to like cue you up so we could have a rhythm going this is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin

and David we're hashtag the two friends thumbs up what we like to do is talk about filmographies. Jamie liked that. Directors who have massive success early in their careers have a series of blank

checks given to them. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce as emojis. Okay. Ben just shook his head. Jamie, we say we're the two friends. Jamie, you can just talk.

It's fine. Every show has different rules. I like the guest to talk. I like talking. No, you can talk. It's great. You gotta cough. The reason I say that we're the two friends is because that is our competitive advantage in the podcast world.

Yeah, we're two friends. Two friends, yeah. I'm telling it like it is a little bit. A lot of podcast people talk about movies. You yourself host one, Bechdel Cast. Yeah, we're two friends. Two friends, yeah. Kind of telling it like it is a little bit. A lot of podcast people talk about movies. You yourself host one, Bextelcast. Yeah, I know. Jamie Loftus is our guest today. Hi. Podcast writer. And we were trying to figure

out like, okay, what makes us stand out in this landscape? And we went, oh, I know what it is. We're two friends. Yeah. Yeah. And not a lot. It's usually two acquaintances. Yeah. Sure. Two people. Two co-workers. Posing as friends. Peers. Threeances. Yeah, sure. Two people. Two co-workers. Posing as friends. Peers.

Three friends. Yeah, right. Three lovers. Oh. Oh, God. Those ones are the worst. I don't want to listen to a podcast recorded between lovers. I just don't.

I don't. What if that... Are there lover podcasts? 100%. There are. There are a lot of like They start with like How are you doing lover? Like that

No they talk about like They're like oh my god The milk at our house And I was like I can't listen to You're Right It's

They're boring I'm not gonna drag anyone by name But there is an entire culture And they're very successful Of like Two stand-ups who are married Host a podcast together about there's at least one of those that i like there's one of those that i really like and then the rest

are are about the milk at the house right uh-huh yeah do you want to say the one you like the one i like is couples therapy oh yeah i've heard that one oh they're great and andy beckerman they are great i have not heard that they are well there used to be a menage but they're great. And Andy Beckerman. They are great. I have not heard that. Well, there used to be a Minaj, but they're done. Yes. That was a couple pod. That was a Ben pod. Oh, yeah. Was it a Ben pod?

But they don't podcast no more. No, I used to produce a show called Minaj de Trois. Producer Ben used to host a show called Minaj. With Murph Meyer and Diana Kolsky. Ben Dusser, producer Ben, the poet laureate. And we would talk to guests about their sex lives. Mr. Positive, Mr. Positive, Peeper. It was fun.

I was on it once. Yeah? Poet laureate. I guess I talked about myself. Meat lover, the fart detective. I was single at the time, so I was more interested. You were down to reveal? Yeah, I was like, yeah, let's talk about it.

Podcasting while single is a slippery slope. It is. Seeming the sheets. Yeah. And then the people listen to it, and they're like, I heard you on Thing. And you're like, oh, yeah. Yeah like I heard you on thing and you're like oh yeah yeah I've been kind of

revealing too much about my life he's not on this part Ben's single right now yeah and then your crush finds it and then they're

they're like oh you're gross or I mean if you have a crush on me that's what you find out right if I can say two things though

one thing you've been single on this podcast for you know stretches you've had some single stretches Oh, you're gross. Right, right, right. If I can say two things, though. Yeah. One thing. You've been single on this podcast for, you know, stretches. You've had some single stretches. I'm single most of the time. Right, right. I was trying to, you know, finesse that. Yeah, thank you. No, I was going to say, this probably will have come up in an earlier episode.

We're recording things out of order. The way we became friends. With being single. Well, yes. But also, we both on Ménage à Trois listed the same pop culture crush. Yeah, you're right. You're right. You're right.

And of course, it was. And people. It was. Same first pop culture crush. Same first pop culture crush. Wait, who? Lydia Dietz and Beetlejuice. Lydia and Beetlejuice.

Oh, okay. And people said, do you guys know you had the same answer? You should be friends with each other. Right, right. You should be two friends with each other. And then you're like, hey, there's something to this. Yeah. This whole two friends idea.

We're on to something here. Hold on. It smells like oil. Yeah, no, but I mean, you know, you had been reluctant to do Tim Burton on this podcast, and I had to wear you down over a series of years. I had to rope-a-dope you. But you realize he was one of the. I had to rope-a-dope you. Sure. But you realize he was one of the things

that kind of brought us together. And then the second thing I want to say is that producer Ben has graduated to a series of titles over the course of different years such as Kylo Ben,

producer Ben Kenobi, Ben I. Chomelon, Ben Say It, Save Anything, dot, dot, dot. Ailey Ben's with a dollar sign, Warhaz, Purdue or Bane,

Banglish, These are all like puns on like past miniseries. Mr. Ben Critical, Ben 19, The Fettle Maker, Eat Drink, Ben Hosleyley What's Nancy though? Do you like it?

Not really It's fine You could take it or leave it Yeah It's just the listing off And I'm like Okay You would be astounded to hear

That people were Angry when I dropped it From the show Yeah We were like Look the name thing Takes so long the guests are so confused by it can we stop doing it i don't enjoy doing right griffin was sick of doing

it and it turns out that's yeah i hate when you drop one thing and then it turns out that was the only thing people ever cared about right our listenership oh we have we have a beetlejuice segment that i do every every time we do a show which is, does Beetlejuice come wet scabs or dry scabs? And I was sick of saying it because it does make me feel sick to say. Sure. But then when I stopped, people got upset. People were upset. You know, look, we have so little to offer people.

I'm glad that they have. They enjoy the names and the scabs and whatever it is that we can offer people. You've got to give them that. Yeah. Yes. Are names and the scabs and whatever. Oh, yeah. You gotta give them that. Yeah. Yes. Are you a Beetlejuice fan? What is sort of your like a relationship

to Tim Burton in general? Because I feel like everyone's got a strong Tim Burton stance one way or the other. Well, I've been in and out on Tim Burton. I used to be strong

into TB. I was, I was like actively trying to date Hot Topic managers. Cool. Knew my TV. Yes.

Back to front. Sort of almost like not even because I really liked it, but because. It was just kind of like crucial. I wanted to, yeah, date this skateboarder who was the assistant manager at Hot Topic. There was a specific guy. There was a specific guy. That was your type, but also there was one sort of. There was one. I mean, there was kind of two. There was a lot that was your type but also there was one sort of there was there was one i

mean there was kind of two there was a lot of skateboarder boys and i wanted to date all of them and they would all work at the hot topic yeah and so i didn't realize till recently i thought i had seen nightmare before christmas not true i have just been to a hot topic and i thought that you've seen it on sweatshirts like You've seen a picture book. If you look through a Hot Topic, you can see half the movie. And after a while, I was just like, I have seen this movie.

I will say, that is one of those movies that you take a stopwatch to it. It's actually like 67 minutes long before credits. I mean, it was hard to make. Probably have seen the entire movie through merchandise. Honestly, that movie is so short that you probably have seen it represented across all the different items they sell there.

Well, with that, it's like everyone's pushing the whole Jack-Sally thing, but they're in three scenes together, and in two of them, he's actively negging her. Yeah, he's not nice. He's like, shut up and make my suit. I was like, this is the sweatshirt moment? Unbelievable.

I'm a big fan of that movie. I don't think it works best as a love story. Right. No. But it is weird how that movie has just become this thing that's like picked apart

and people used to represent whatever like in their dark soul they want reflected back to them. It's a good AIM away like that used to be like an AIM away message

like looking for the dark to my side. Well and there was that Blink-182 song that was like it would be like Jack and Sally. Oh my God, yeah. Do you remember they used that? Oh I forgot my side. Well, and there was that Blink-182 song that was like, be like Jack and Sally. Oh, my God, yeah.

Do you remember they used that? Oh, I forgot about that. I feel like that was a moment that crystallized it as like, Yes. Right. That's so icky. I think that was a moment, though, because that was sort of like, what?

The movie, it's been like 25 years since the movie came out. Yeah, 94. This was the anniversary. Jack and Sally. Be like Jack and Sally. Oh, my God, I feel sick. There is 93. Yeah, I feel sick. There is 93. Yeah, so 25 years.

Right. I feel like, you know, 10 years in 2003, I think is when it went from being like, okay, the movie was like marginal when it came out and it became a cult success. And then it became like a sweatshirt, a mainstream cult success. Right, just sort of a canonical generational thing. Right. Everyone had seen it when they were a kid and they were all grown up now and they were all like, yeah, that's a tradition

that movie. Right. And then that Blink-182 song was around that time, which is when Hot Topic becomes like 99% Nightmare Before Christmas merchandise. This is when we were all teenagers. I owned a Jack Skellington sweatshirt. Convinced I had seen the movie. I just saw the movie for

the first time a couple days ago. Really? Yeah. Really? Wow. We just did an episode on it and I thought I had

seen the movie. I think the fact that like the merchandise still felt like edgy because the movie like people didn't fucking get it when it came out. Oh it's like skeletons

and bones dude. He's like a skeleton man. I'm not sure a regular man but a skeleton. He's like a skeleton man. I imagine a regular man, but a skeleton. It's pretty cool. My favorite thing is to call all skeletons, skellingtons. Skellingtons.

But, no, Disney marketing machine like amped it up and then the kids were like, I don't like that fucking cookie cutter Disney stuff. I like this other sweatshirt produced by Disney. And we really showed them. Yeah. By purchasing those sweatshirts.

They became like the alt Jack and Rose. You know, if you're like, I'm not basic. I don't like that fucking Titanic shit. I do. I like the fucking twisted. Can I get a Jack and Rose sweatshirt? I would love that. That would be great.

I feel like Hot Topic now, like all the stuff that Hot Topic used to stand for has become so mainstream that the way they could go back around to being alt is to take the things that used to be the most mainstream and reclaim them as cult. They should do that.

Right, to just like go all in on like My Best Friend's Wedding or whatever. Because their stores are now like Nightmare Before Christmas, Deadpool, and Harley Quinn. God.

Which are like so universally popular. I can't even. Deadpool gives me a migraine. I can't deal with it. No, to be fair, to be fair, that's what I was going to say. It hurts your head a little bit

to think about the fact that he knows that he's in a movie. It's true. I mean, when he gives us the little look and we know he's in

on the joke, I'm like, oh my God, this is too, this is too. There was someone I was briefly dating who saw Deadpool 2 so many times. Congratulations.

So many times is two. More than two times. And this is also recent history. Yeah, right. It was in the past couple months. Yeah, clearly. We're no longer together. Congratulations.

Thank you so much. There's sometimes red flags too big to ignore. Did he know he was in a relationship? He was like, Jamie, say what you will, but there's actually some really good cutaway jokes. Some really top-notch

fourth wall breaks. Was he trying to appeal to you as like, Jamie, you're a comedian. You need to see this. Deadpool was his favorite comedian. Which is something that he said. Do you think Deadpool There was something going for this guy

Was he like a Rhodes Scholar Was he a hot topic manager Did he have like a Nobel Prize or something He was a very specific type That I go for regardless of where your brain's at Right Physical type you're saying Skellington

And we're like We're good friends still and so he was a big physical type. Skellington. And we're good friends still, but there were some certain... There were some hangups like Deadpool was his favorite comedian. Deadpool was his favorite comedian, which hurt me personally. And also I am not sure if he knows Deadpool is not a real man who exists. I think he does,

but he doesn't speak of Deadpool as if he's Deadpool is not a real man who exists. I think he does, but he doesn't speak of Deadpool as if he's a fictional character. It is crazy that Deadpool was never on Herald Night. It's kind of crazy that he never made a house team. He sailed right through. I know. He sailed right through. I mean, raw talent. He does teach a class, though, right? He does,

but it's more of like a storytelling class. So it's one of those UCB classes where getting the credit doesn't help you. No, you gotta do it just because you love it. You love it. Deadpool's cool. Are we all gonna see the PG-13 Deadpool recut

that's coming out of Christmas? Should we make a date? By the time this episode comes out it will have been released three months ago. I will have seen it many times. On the record, it changed the world. Deadpool is president now. Deadpool is president.

Right. That was it. That was just, that was the crucial thing he needed to break the dam. Deadpool is daddy. So was there a point for you, because I find there are, you know, most people, especially of our generation, like Tim Burton growing up up and then there are the people like myself who like it's like the X

you can't get over I still keep on giving him another shot sure and the people like David where it's like I can't deal with it anymore oh I'm fully done

okay I'm fully done but I did I loved Edward Scissorhands that was my Tim Burton sure that's your

your primo ultimate number one my question is because I find it's different for people what was your like point of no return what was the one where you just went like fuck this oh god That's your primo ultimo number one. My question is, because I find it's different for people, what was your point of no return? What was the one where you just went, like, fuck this?

Oh, God. Let me run you down some Burt's. So, you know, you got your early Burt's. You know, you got your Pee Wee, your Beetlejuice, your Edward, your Batman. Miracle Run. Edward. Yes. And then we're in the sort of 90s Burt's.

We got Mars Attacks, Sleepy Hollow. Still there. Planet of the Apes with Wahlberg. I haven't seen that one. Fine. Easy to skip over. We got Mars Attacks. Still with him. Sleepy Hollow. Still there. Planet of the Apes with Wahlberg. I haven't seen that one. Fine. Easy to skip over. Terrible. Big Fish. Didn't love Big Fish, but stayed with him.

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. And now we're getting into the Dark Shadows zone, the sort of Johnny Depp star vehicle zone. I was the right age at Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, so I was still there. Still on board. Still there. And we got Corpse Bride, the Factory, so I was still there. Still on board. Still there. And we got Corpse Bride, Sweeney, Todd. Still there.

2010, though, Alice in Wonderland. That's where I went on. And so that, his biggest hit ever. I haven't seen it. You know, it's not so good. No, it's a very bad movie, and it's a thing that kind of dooms him that it was that successful. It was that successful, it cost that much, and it's a thing that kind of dooms him that it was that successful it was that successful it cost that much and it starred Johnny Depp

so I guess he was sort of like I guess I need to do really expensive things that star Johnny Depp like is that the move for me like right right

he didn't even do that for me with Dark Shadows yeah and I guess he hasn't worked with Depp since Dark Shadows no yeah no

that's the last one for now oh god is there like something on the horizon I don't know it does seem like there's been some kind of a a schism yeah No, that's the last one for now. Oh, God. Is there something on the horizon? I don't know. It does seem like there's been some kind of a... A schism?

Yeah. We also know that Tim Burton seems very willing to forgive bad people for doing bad things. Wait, wait. Who else are we talking about? Well, I'm talking about how he basically is like, I love white people. Like how he's kind of like a low-key white supremacist. So I don't really trust his moral compass. I think he would cast Johnny Depp again and again.

Pumpernickels. Hi, my boss needs a caterer for the team meeting. Well, we do breakfast, lunch, sandwiches, wraps, hors d'oeuvres, coffee, sweets, sweets, desserts and platters. Yep. Deli, veggie, cheesy, fruity, caprese, breads and spreads falafel. What about salads? Rainbow cob, kale, Caesar, Greek pasta and veg tabbouleh couscous. Impressive. Thanks. Pumpernickels 20 restaurants across the GTA and catering everywhere. See the menu now at pumpernickels.ca where good food is plentiful. This movie is like a couple of things coalescing at once.

One is that Johnny Depp has fully become the guy who has Burton's checkbook and is like, do you mind if I go write a check under your name and then we just make it? Right. And this was like the first time that Depp comes to Burton and is like, this is a specific thing I want to do. Yes, this was Depp's passion project, not Burton's. Which is funny.

Depp was obsessed with the show when he was a little kid. Fun show. Right. And so that was like, I guess, one of his iconic like sort of hoped for roles, right? This is his series of four horrible flops in a row that kill his career before he starts also being a horrible person on top of that. And the cornerstone of this period

is Johnny Depp now has the capital to play all the characters he wanted to play when he was a kid. So it's like, he idolizes Hunter S. Thompson, he does another Hunter S. Thompson movie. He does Rum Dyer. I saw that movie by accident. Did you just order a rum it's like he idolizes Hunter S. Thompson. He does another Hunter S. Thompson movie. He does Rum Dyer. Oh, God. I saw that movie by accident once.

Did you just order a rum? And they were like, yeah, through here. It was at a movie theater that, it was the movie theater's fault. I went to see- They literally showed you the wrong movie. Yeah, and they were like, you can stay or you can- They literally put the wrong thing on the projector.

I forget. That was what like 2011 I don't know I was not trying to see the Rum Diary and then in the middle I was like

it was like a few minutes and I was like this isn't what I I don't know where I don't know where I was but then I saw the whole movie by accident and how was it

it was really bad yeah I have not seen the Rum Diary not a good one really bad Barnabas Collins and Tonto were his two favorite

characters as a child. Oh, God. Wanted to play them. And then he caps it off with Mordecai, who is his modern favorite character. He's like, I love these books. I've got to make Mordecai. Right. And Mordecai, that doesn't even make any money.

So that's like the final nail. They're like, you can't pick projects anymore, John. Then he's cooked. John, John. Then he's cooked. John, John. Because after that is when he starts being like,

if you want to murder me on an Orient Express, I'll do it. Like, whatever. Like, I need the cash.

Yes. My wine guy is going to break my legs. He starts becoming a monster who like, devours cash

and eats souls. And like, lives in the Dark Shadows mansion. That like, that the dark shadows mansion like that horror was that like a rolling stone fucking like where it's basically like him being like look uh you might not be hearing from me much longer like i'm watching himself on tv oh god it's a nightmare there's there's a part of that piece that's one of the best pieces of like sort of like entertainment profile writing i've ever seen where it says like Johnny announces, you know, in the room where it's like his lawyer, his bodyguard, his chef, like the only people he hangs out with are the people who work for him.

He never leaves his castle. Right. And he says like, hey, if we're going to have dinner, we need to have some wine first. And then there's paragraph break one sentence, which is just 12 hours hours later we had still not started dinner it's like horrifying he is like a parody i know we're talking a lot of depth on this miniseries we're gonna have to uh this is the final depth so i guess yes salute yeah fuck off but like he is like for when i was a kid you know it's like oh yeah johnny depp he's like cool he's like lives in france he's like on a boat you know he's like he likes the cool guy thompson and fucking whatever smoking weed like i like i mean he was like seen as like oh yeah he's kind of he's not

hollywood you know and now he's like a parody of a hollywood star like i was gonna say i think i might have made this joke during the Sleepy Hollow episode. I think I might have made this joke in the Sleepy Hollow episode, but he feels like the person that you remember as being so dreamy when you were like 17, and then you look at the yearbook and you're like, this person's a fucking joke. You know, like the person you have a crush on when you're young. You see him at the reunion and he's like, hey, how you doing? You want a wine? You're like, oh, God.

Sloshing his own bottle of wine. I know you had a crush on me back in 1989. You had to make your dreams come true. But this is like the moment where we don't realize

that he's a war criminal. And when he goes to like his two favorite directors and he's like, Gore Verbinski, we're doing Lone Ranger, Tim Burton, we're doing Dark Shadows.

And he like makes those two movies happen. And this was very much a thing where like Tim Burton was like, yeah, I used to watch the show, like, a little bit. Johnny was a big fan. He really wanted to do it. He, like, got me hired. And it feels like the impetus for this project being made was that Johnny Depp wanted to play Barnabas Collins, and that was where the ideas stopped.

And, like, Tim Burton's the director for Goths at this point. Right. Like, this movie feels like hat hat on a hat like him overdoing it right it's weird that he did it it's one of the movies that our our friend alex ross perry says feels like is directed by a shitty film school like protege of tim burton's rather than timber right where he would like see the trailer and he'd be like, what B-grade Tim Burton knockoff directed this movie? And then you're like, oh, fuck it was. From director Tim Burton.

Right. Yeah. But you're a big fan of the show. I really liked the show. Yeah, my mom would show us episodes when we were little. So we're all total neophytes in this realm, which is why I was very excited. We threw out the flyer to you of any of these you want to talk about,

and you said, like, you know, I like Pee Wee. You might have said you liked another one. You were like, I would love to poop on Dark Shadows. I would love to poop on that movie. Well, me, my mom and my aunts were very excited to see it because I... When you heard about this movie, you were

like, awesome. They're doing Dark Shadows. That's great. It's weird because I've seen so many episodes of Dark Shadows, but it was just sort of like the background track to my house a lot of the time and so like we grew up uh with barnabas and with and with the show and my mom had like a whole stack of vhs where she would tape the old ones i think they were like rare on sci-fi or something yeah and you know we hadn't been watching them for a while. And then when the movie came out, my mom, like all moms must,

was like violently horny for Johnny Depp too. So this was like, we were gonna see it. Like I came home from college to see it with her and she would have been mad if I saw it without her. It is funny how he became like a mom crush in the two thousands. Like, I mean, yeah. Parts of the Caribbean starting with right.

Yes. You know, cause then shakala was sort of the like preview of death as you know, where he's like, great Molina joint. Right. He stops being a hip Molina joint. It's one of my fave Molina.

Isn't Molina a dick in that one? He's like the guy who's like, that shouldn't be chocolate. I hate it. one? He's like the guy who's like, that shouldn't be chocolate. I hate it. Yeah, he's... Too sweet. He's anti-chocolat. But then, you know,

he learns a little something about himself. He does. Molina is your top honk, right? You're mad for Molina? Yeah, I'm crazy for Molina. When did I just see Molina? And he'll pop up in the weirdest fucking things. Yeah, and I'll say...

No, what were you going to say? I'm sorry. He's just a gifted man. He can do it. He can do anything. He could play pro-chocolat. He could play anti-chocolat. He could play like the chocolat mayor's twin who's like,

but I love chocolate. He could play the chocolat itself. He's a gifted man and we love him. Sweet as chocolate. The thing I was going to say about him that I like about him, what you were saying, David, about him just showing up in things, is I feel like he's one of those guys who's storied career, very well-known, very respected, doesn't seem to have any ego,

and is like, yeah, I'll show up and do this for two days. This seems like a fun project. He's in four movies a year because he's just sort of like, let's do it. And not as a surprise cameo and not as uncredited, but he's just like, I'll be 17 on the call sheet. It's Front Runner, in which he plays... Oh, he has a big part in that, right? Not really.

No one has a big part in that. But he plays Ben Bradley. Oh, right. And he's odd casting, because Ben Bradley is like a Boston Brahmin, you know, kind of like... How's he do? He's fine.

He's in the office. He's like, look, it used to be that the newspapers did this, and now they do this. I mean, what can I tell you? And then cut. Alfred Molina playing someone from Boston is my wet dream.

That's very exciting. Yeah. I'm sorry. There's not enough of him then, I would say, but still. I mean, as long as he's there. He shows up. You get the feeling you're like,

Alfred Molina is on top. He rolls up his sleeves. He seems like, yeah, just a consummate pro. Do you have like amate pro yeah do you have like a top melina for you oh yeah what's your number one he's got so much range i wonder if there's like one or if there are a couple that for you like are your your holy trinity maybe um well i mean shakalaw is a classic melina wow so it's near the top okay loved him in feud

he was terrific sure he was he was in feud yeah i played ro terrific in Feud. Sure, he was very good in Feud. People forget he was in Feud. Yeah, he played Robert Aldrich. He did, yes. And very well, might I add. And a lot of smoking hot Molina kissing scenes. Which are sometimes, you know, few and far between. Yeah, you don't get a lot of Molina kissing. He's good in Frida. He was in Frida. He's very sexy in Frida.

He's a heartthrob in Frida. That's not one of my top, I mean, Doc Ock was the one that set me aflame as a child. He's shirtless for most of that movie. True. Yeah. Well, it's sort of like. Yeah, no. But his pants like go to his nipples.

His pants are above the belly button. And he's got a long trench coat on. But he is not wearing a shirt. He's leading with pecs. Doc Ock was like a big moment for me. Really? Because I had a poster in my room and I think my parents

were like, oh, Jamie likes comic books. Right, right. But it wasn't that. Is it that one where it's like the arms

and he's sort of like standing? It was the one where he's looking over his shoulder and he's got his little, and it's, oh, it's great. He's an intellectual.

He was such, he was such a weird choice for that role and he like destroyed it. It's so good. It's amazing. Oh, he's just... All those scenes where he's talking to his arms.

My best friend saw him play Tevye. I wish I saw him play Tevye. I remember that. Yeah, I tried really hard to run into him once. I just let him walk right by me. I got too scared. Wow. Have you seen the Fiddler on the Roof

Doc Ock video that was an Easter egg on the Spider-Man 2 DVD? No! I think he was rolling straight from Spider-Man 2 production into Fiddler on the Roof. Back to back. He was working on his Tevye while he

was shooting. He would practice it a lot. There's B-roll footage that they have as an Easter egg where he's like working on his Tevye while he was shooting he would like practice it a lot and there's like range there's like things with him with the arms right that they have as an Easter egg where he's in it's I think it's when he's in the

when he breaks into the coffee shop oh that's a so he's walking on the tentacles right he's like elevated above the ground and he starts doing if I was a rich

man with the tentacles and the puppeteers are like helping him do it with the tentacles. Oh, that's great. It's glorious. He just seems like such a fun. A pleasure to have in class.

Yeah. Like that's just Alfred Molina all over. Have you seen Love is Strange? I'm sure you have. I haven't. Oh, Jamie. Oh, that is like

primo Molina that you need to check out. It's a little indie movie from like five years ago. Alfred Molina. Four years ago. John Lithgow married in love fighting for their rights

just a nice cute little couple yep who want the same rights as everyone else oh my god molina is a music teacher he is of course lithgow's a novelist he gets fired because they find out i know no that he's a gay man god the fact that they're getting married before there was sort of plausible deniability he's just your roommate it was sort of a don't ask don't tell thing now that you're married it's a great sad movie and malina's the best part of it and it's like sad happy movie you know it's like a good sweet bittersweet movie very very nice the rain the range he recently i found his uh his finsta what this is real not what i expected you to say he has a finsta and he saw frozen on broadway recently shit he travels quietly we're avoiding talking about dark shadows for good reason but he should be and now i'm just

mad he's not in dark shadows oh i think he. I always have theories that he was offered it and rejected it. He was like, absolutely not. He was like, oh, no. What was the thing I was going to say about Melina before we move on from Melina? I don't know. It was about the Frozen musical. I just want to say this one thing. Oh, yeah.

Have you seen that the tagline for the Frozen musical is, you've never seen Frozen like this? No. I've seen those ads, yeah. Which is like, right, yeah, we've only seen Frozen the one way. Frozen's like three years old. It's not like saying you've never seen Hamlet like this. No. I've seen those ads, yeah. Which is like, right, yeah, we've only seen Frozen the one way. Frozen's like three years old. It's not like saying

you've never seen Hamlet like this, where it's like, well, I've seen 20 Hamlets, so it's new. That's a real selling point. Right, it's the second way to see it. Right, you've never seen Frozen like this. You mean not 110 minutes

in CGI animated? You mean not shown to make a child be quieter? Right. So anyway, you had never seen Dark Shadows like this before you had seen this movie. No, and I mean, there's no turning back once you see this Dark Shadows.

Now, the TV show was a soap opera. Like, it aired five days a week. Yeah, yeah. Oh, most of the episodes of Dark Shadows are bad. And there are like 2,000 episodes. There's an insane episode count. There's a million episodes. All of them are like, they're all very short.

Most of the stories, I couldn't direct you to a specific episode of Dark Shadows. But I've seen hundreds of them. So your investment is more in sort of the thing as a whole than it is like, you were so invested in these plot lines, these characters, these arcs. No. I mean, there's really, like most soap operas, there were no storylines that were worth getting into. They were making it up as they went along.

Because they turned it up. Yeah, it was five episodes a week. But it was great. I loved, loved Barnabas. And yeah, and And even when this movie was announced, Johnny Depp felt like it felt forced to be like,

he's Barnabas? I don't really think he's going to do a good job. And then sure enough, he did not do a good job. But it was one of those things where I think people went like, oh, they can't get Dark Shadows made unless you have a star as big as Johnny Depp. And it was like, no, it's like the only reason this movie is being made is because Johnny Depp wants to play Barnabas. Like, I don't think this would have gotten made otherwise.

I don't think Warner Brothers was itching to make a Dark Shadows movie. And it's not like Dark Shadows was like, that was something that a lot of people were like, when's the movie going to happen? That's like the General Hospital, the movie. That's not going to... Although I would love to see it. It's differentiating factor at the time was that it was a genre soap opera. Yes. And so for people, it was like a cross section between like monster movie kids and sci-fi kids and soap opera fans.

But moms could watch it too. Right. That was sort of the breaking point. Because wasn't it sort of like initially it was just kind of a slightly spooky regular soap opera and then they started like adding in more like the fantasy stuff worked for them. Barnabas comes in later.

He was like a breakout character. Right. And then Barnabas, if I'm remembering correctly, quickly becomes the central. And then it's just here. It was her goal. Yeah. Family Matters was supposed to be at a family,

and then the next-door neighbor took over. And then it ended up being the Barnabas show. And rightfully so. But it sort of started out as just sort of like, this is like a gothic family soap opera with the Collins. The scary soap opera. And then it becomes like werewolves and vampires and Skellingtons. And there's a lot of skellingtons

yes yeah a lot of their soap opera jump scares nothing like them give me give me just a taste i don't i haven't seen the show in years but it's like someone opens the door and a skeleton on a wire like falls out is that what we're talking about it's just like a jump scare right after a love scene in a way that's very jarring where you're you know like barnabas and like whoever the whatever fuck of the week is like they're they're having this intimate conversation and then it's like and then and then it cuts to commercial and you come back and sometimes the jump scare isn't even addressed they just have to be like well we gotta punctuate this scene somehow right skeleton are all skellingtons i'm sorry i'm sorry skellingtons no no no you're right um uh jump scares are a thing that's'm sorry. I'm sorry. Skellingtons. No, no, no. You're right.

Drum scares are a thing that's like, you know, about like precision filmmaking craft. Even when they're sort of cheap and exploitive, it's all about like timing and composition. Not on Dark Shadows, baby. Right. Because soap operas, it's like, okay, we have to shoot eight pages of dialogue in a one-er. Right. That's a five shot. And we're doing two takes.

Right. Right. That's the thing that soap opera actors always talk about is you got no time to work on it. You can't be precious about it. There's barely any time to memorize anything much less. I love soap operas so much.

Do you have any in the rotation? I don't. No. My mom would watch the old soap operas but she would also watch General Hospital, Port Charles, or as she said it, Port Charles. Port Charles. And what was the other?

Days of Our Lives. Right. So it was three every single night. Because I had a friend who was a huge Passions fan back when Passions was being weird. Oh, we did not fuck with Passions. Passions was kind of the Dark Shadows of the 2000s. Where it started out normal and then they did some shit.

That was a supernatural one. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, we didn't fuck with Passions or All My Children for some reason. I think it's a kind of a dead art form now. Like there aren't,

there's only four left. And they've mostly migrated to like Hulu and online platforms now, right? Because the networks had like canceled them and there was like a big campaign to be like,

we're shaving it. Like we're waiting until the last fan dies. The only four left are Young and the Restless Bold and the Beautiful General Hospital

Days of Our Lives those are the only surviving soap operas one of those is on Hulu now am I wrong? whatever whatever so you go see this

with your mom and your grandmother? not my grandmother two of my aunts your mom and your aunts yes and does everyone walk out

is it the mood anger? is it sort of disillusion walk out is it the mood anger is it sort of disillusionment is it disappointment or is or is there like actual like vicious sort of like they got it wrong i was upset when we left uh-huh my mom was just as horny as when she arrived didn't really seem to notice anything it was bad she was into it she was she was just like walking down with like a thumb up literally handicapped by how horny she is for johnny depp she cannot discern what a bad johnny depp movie is all her takes on johnny depp is bad uh are bad such as johnny depp innocent like she just can't take she can't she can't have she can't see him objectively like is she like did

she see like pirates five or whatever? Like, is she, she'll still like be there for the movies? Like, I don't know. I mean, she,

she sees them all. She may not see them all in theaters anymore, but, uh, we all did. My, my aunts were disappointed. I was upset and my mom was the same.

She was like, wow, look at that. Did you see the makeup on him? He looked, oh, she did say his face looked very sharp in this one. It certainly does. He lost a lot of weight for the film. The contours of his face in this one.

And there's also, yes, there's a lot of contouring on him too. This is a movie where he's doing like full expressionistic makeup on all these actors. And then it feels like digitally augmenting it beyond that. Like this is one of those movies where it feels like Tim Burton is kind of frustrated that they're not all

stop motion puppets and he makes everyone as heightened as possible. Well and he has one of the characters be a porcelain person essentially. Oh my god.

Bella Heathcote? No well that but no I mean Eva Green's like weird shattering face. Oh she shatters at the end. Yeah. And I also remember this movie, the screenplay. Bella Heathcote just is a porcelain person.

That's right. But the screenplay was written by someone who, I was in college when this movie came out, and it was written by an Emerson alum. And I remember telling my mom, this is, maybe I could do this someday. And then it was the worst movie ever. The Abraham Lincoln vampire hunter?

Yeah, Mr. Pride, Prejudice, and Zombies. He's the, God, I mean. This was the moment where Hollywood was like really hot on him because there had been this big bidding war for Abraham Lincoln which Tim Burton produced. No one saw it. No one liked it.

I didn't see it. But like people were going crazy when they were trying to option it and then like I think it was one of those things where they were like just look at that title like that's all you need he's the

like they were so enamored of the concept there was also it was one of those movies where Deadline was posting stories for months about like the race to cast Abraham Lincoln is down to only 10 actors now

right and it was like 10 actors like Scarlett O'Hara it was they treated it like Scarlett O'Hara. Seth Rogen, Chris Smith, Abraham Lincoln. And it was the same time that Zack Snyder was trying to cast Man of Steel,

and there was a big thing where they were reaching from the same pool, and they were like, what's his name? Matthew Goode has pulled himself out of contention for Abraham Lincoln because he thinks he can get Superman. They were all jockeying between those two movies. Warner Brothers sets up a big overall deal with him and Jeffrey Katzenberg's son called Katzen Smith. Oh.

And Entertainment Weekly did this two-page spread about how Katzen Smith is shaking up Hollywood with bold new ideas. Oh, I'm sorry. Are they disrupting? They were like, these guys are disruptors. They're Hollywood, but they're a little different. And their list of things they were doing

that were outside the box were like, they want to reboot Gremlins. They want to reboot. Like, it was just them rebooting properties. And they were like, but these guys

are a little twisted. And so this was, John August had tried to write this movie. Someone else had tried to write this movie. I mean, from what I know. John August has a credit. Yeah, someone else had tried to write this movie I mean from what I know they bought them the rights

from the like estate of Dan Curtis who created the show they threw it to John August he wrote a script they threw that out he got the story credit Seth Graham Smith came in wrote his script that was what they did Seth Graham Smith by the end of this movie you're just like

they're so in like the last the back half but also the last third of the movie there's so much stuff that happens that just you're just like how are we why it's a lot of setup and i was the point i was like geez how long is this movie and i checked i'm like oh it's almost over wait a second is there gonna is anything gonna happen like right yeah so my understanding at the time i remember reading interviews and stuff and them sort of saying like they had sort of been greenlit without a script. Because they were like, Tim Burton and Johnny Depp want to make a vampire movie? Fine, that's money in the bank.

Like, especially, this is the one right after Alice in Wonderland, which is crazy. Which made, like, a billion dollars. So they were just like, whatever the fuck these guys want to do, sure. Right. And so I think they had the greenlight. The John August script doesn't work. I think they had a couple other writers who didn't get credit try to come up with scripts. And then like.

I mean, what's truly crazy is they released this in May. Yes. How is this not released in like October or whatever? You know, like. They gave it like a prime. It's a summer movie. Summer slot. Yeah.

And it's a PG-13 movie about a horny guy. Yeah. Who fucks his way through town. Like, and he's a vampire. Right. And it's also like. That's it. It's got that thing like the Orville

where it's like, is this a comedy or not? Right. Or do you just really like this show? Right. It feels kind of like a fan film. It feels like those guys who got together and self-funded

more episodes of Star Trek who bought the original set. Yeah, right. I'm forgetting what that's called. Star Wars Star Trek not Voyages I think it's New Voyages

it feels a little like that except with 150 million dollars those are cute because it's like they do one episode every like two years because it takes so fucking long and then they'll get the old actors to come back but the story I remember hearing at the time was that Graham Smith was like, I know how to fix this movie

and came in and gave him this crazy push and was like, we go for the rafters and they kind of let him like steer the ship because it didn't seem like Tim Burton had any sense of what the story he wanted to tell was. He has often said in interviews, I wouldn't know a good script

if it hit me. Right. He doesn't write he knows he knows what he likes he doesn't write like write scripts himself right and he admittedly grew up on like trash cinema like he really liked like pulpy genre like you know like b-movie programmers so i think they were like this graham smith kid is coming in he's real hot he's telling us that he knows how to make this movie work. And they just handed him all the story decisions. Yeah, but this is, the story's a disaster. The story's the worst thing about this movie. It's great.

It's nuts. It's nuts. You can't do it like this. There's like back-to-back scenes of like, Helena Bonham Carter's betrayed me. I will kill her. Right. Next scene, making the dad go away.

Go away, dad. Yeah, right, right. And then the next, i don't even there's like five scenes in a row that have nothing to do with each other they have no bearing on and where johnny depp's character behaves in an entirely different way scene by scene like in one scene he's like vampire and was very this movie's so fucking stupid it's really

sorry it starts kind of fun yeah yeah I was fine with it I like and I like the idea of like he comes back

I am a sucker for like oh lady doctor I'm from a long time ago I don't know that shit any culture clash comedy any fish out of water especially when they're that boy right i do like i like the sections of the movie it's so hacky in this movie

where like i still i'm like yeah sure you're like fine it's like elf with vampires like michelle pfeiffer's just sort of there like sweeping around oh she is phoning it yeah at this point it was like we were still so desperate for Michelle yes she went like yeah it's a little bit oh there's no point

in putting this like why did I know why they chose the 70s but they should have just chosen yeah maybe they should just

I guess that the 70s is just like homage to the show right right but making it a period piece on top of a period piece was a stupid idea it is weird that he's like i've woken up in the 70s rather than the it is yeah it doesn't make sense right none of it makes especially

because it's like it's like a it's like a reverse austin powers kind of thing right right right you know but but the other part of it is that, like, he's so confused by all their, like, modern ways. But the ways that he perceives as modern are antiquated to us. Right. It's confusing. Yeah. Yeah. Because he's kind of a dirty dog.

He's a dirty dog. You know? And he's awful. Because it's like the 70s. He's a freak. He's a bit of a freak. He's definitely a freak. I didn't like the throwaway Chloe Grace Moretz.

This was like the most Seth Graham Smith like fucking edgelord line of all time where she's like, yeah, I'm a werewolf. Let's try not to make a big deal about it. I was like, I'm going to throw myself out of this mega bus. I forgot about that line. See that? Okay, so this is my defense that will not fall up in court.

Has Chloe Grace Moretz ever met a teenager in her fucking life? Chloe Grace Merz is an android planted by the government. I'm so, I've had it with her. Right. Where they were like, we need one of these young adult stars. Like where do we get one of those?

Dr. Hobby built her. No. Dr. Hobby built her. And they only said seven of the 10 keywords before she was taken away for the flesh carnival. What's it called? Flesh Fair.

Flesh Fair. I want Chloe Grismeritz to be caught stealing something at a department store so she goes away for a couple years. I want her to be Winona. You want her to get in some trouble. The thing, this is my defense, I will not be able to throw much spirit behind. I do kind of like how much this movie just goes insane in the last 15 minutes. I do. I do like that it's just like kitchen sink, like, like everything.

Excess, like just fucking like, why not? Why not just make it fucking everything? My problem is the pacing. It's not like this movie has any integrity. Like, why not have everyone be. All right. Let me sum up the movie, though. It's a 10-minute prologue where you're like,

what the fuck is this going to have to do with anything? Played very straight. Very straight. Very gothic, torturous, Sleepy Hollow-esque. All narration. All narration. This great, tragic love story. It kind of reminded me of the beginning of I, Frankenstein,

a movie I really love. Never seen I, Frankenstein. Written by another edgelord. I love I, Frankenstein. The biggest edgelord of them allstein written by another edge lord the biggest edge lord of them all which edge lord wrote that which edge lord wrote that movie Landis yeah right no that wasn't Landis

there's so many fucking Frankensteins I don't know i Frankenstein is written by a different edge lord different the third edge lord i Frankenstein is i Frankenstein is the Aaron Eckhart one yeah it's right with stewart stewart and it's his and he like wrote directed it was his lifelong dream and he clearly sets it up to be a franchise right and everyone was like god no thank you frankenstein fucks it's also one of those things where it's like hot frankenstein right. Right, right, right. Frankenstein's a patchwork man. Lin just wrote the one where Daniel Radcliffe is Igor.

I think the monster's barely in that one. I Frankenstein, my favorite thing about it is they still want him to have the stitches because that's part of Frankenstein, but they want him to be really fucking hot. In I Frankenstein, he plays Adam Frankenstein. Frankenstein he plays Adam Frankenstein and it's just like it's the crazy thing about Frankenstein is that it's not really about Adam

Frankenstein at all it's about the war between demons and gargoyles right he's sort of like the underworld like was it shot in like Bulgaria 100% it was shot in somewhere in Eastern Europe and it's

it's shot in the castle 4% on Rotten Tomatoes like I don't take Rotten Tomatoes that seriously but Jesus it's cool to see Adam Frankenstein

wake up in the modern day and he goes to a rave and he's like what is this and then he's like then he finds his gargoyle friends

he's like oh thank god oh my god Johnny Courtney plays the leader of the gargoyle friends he's like oh thank god oh my god they're all the courtney plays the leader of the gargoyle army he sure does oh my god oh it's so sad when he dies the spoiler is it it says hey the world premiere was in buenos aires you were asking where it was shot it was shot inside a tax loophole it was like a tax loophole right no the hole. Right, a new dimension opens. Right.

No, the thing I was going to say about it is obviously the logic of Frankenstein is like, oh, he's got the stitches because he was stitched together from different bodies. Yeah. But they don't want him

to be in any way sexually unappealing. So in the movie, he looks like he was stitched together by, from seven different Aaron Eckarts. Yes.

Because he's still totally symmetrical. Yes. That'd be good though if it was like, yeah, this is Aaron Brockovich Eckhart and you know,

like this one is no reservations Eckhart. Like all the Eckharts are together. they're all, they're all, the boys are all there. Yeah.

Oh, he's very hot in that movie. Imagine like, he's a cutie. Yeah. Imagine being like Aaron Eckhart having your run in the 2000s. You go a little cold

then like, thank you for smoking sort of revives you. Then you play like fucking Two-Face in the Dark Knight. You're like, geez, I'm back, baby. Where do I cash in my chips? iFrankenstein. Like all in iFrankenstein.

I would argue iFrankenstein is his little indie Frankenstein that he was wanting to make for a long time. It was a passion project. Yeah, his passion project, Frankenstein. I mean, Sully's got to get him some more. Come on, get him some snicker bars. Have you seen Sully? I haven't seen Sully. Fucking rules.

Jimmy Sully rules. I know. I mean, I feel like I... You're in for Sully? I'm in for... I mean, my whole family saw Sully and I didn't see Sully. I mean, sort of one must.

They're all from Sully land, as we call it, Sullyville. Really? It's called Sully. I mean, sort of one must. They're all from Sully land, as we call it. Sullyville. Really? It's called Sullyville now? Yeah, they renamed it Sullyville because of the high population

of Sully's and appreciation for Sully. So, there was at one point in high school where my best friend and my bully were named Sully.

Truly? Yeah, two different boys. Wow. Sully's in Mensa. I know you're in Mensa. Oh, God, yeah. You remember Mensa?

I remember. This has been a thing. I guess you're less on Twitter these days. I'm less on Twitter these days. I'm way less on Twitter. I got kicked off. Again, that's happened a couple times for you, right? What was it this time?

This time, well, once I infuriated Mensa, every time that happens after that is just they'll report anything i say and then sometimes it'll work but the the tweet i got kicked off for is i i threatened quote unquote the zamboni twins uh which are cartoons that i saw this yes so um you threatened two fictional creations of your own and they flagged it as threats of violence. Yeah, that are Zambonis. Right. And they're like, she's got to get off. Yeah, I mean, you should have just said some anti-Semitic things, and then you never would have gotten banned ever.

Nope. Nope. They'll verify you for that shit. Just post swastikas. They're going to change the blue checkmark into a swastika. That's how you're going to know people are verified on Twitter. Did you know that Seth Graham Smith is writing a Beetlejuice sequel? That's what I was saying. That was part of the deal.

He's going to reboot all these Warner Brothers things. The one good movie he gets a credit on is Lego Batman. But yeah, they sort of let him take over because no one knew what the fucking movie was. Johnny Depp just wanted to do his thing. And this movie was weirdly very expensive. Follow up to the biggest movie these two guys had made.

And then one of those films were like it was coming out in May and there still wasn't a trailer in February. Right, right. It was one of those movies

where it's like they're clearly hiding something because there are no posters, no trailers, no one's talked about it. And then like a trailer went up in March. Everyone's like

it's a comedy because the trailer was solely fish out of water gags the trailer's like him fighting the tv it's the 70s stuff yeah the trailer's him looking at the lava lamp like it was just that and then this thing i i spent a weird amount of time on the orville wikipedia page the other day i've never seen an episode of the orville fucking set fucking Seth MacFarlane Star Trek show where they can't say like Star Trek. Correct. But it obviously is Star Trek. But the show's become successful enough that it's like

it's got a big fan base, it's got good ratings, it's got all of this. I had a long term crush on Seth MacFarlane. Interesting. That's embarrassing. Is he the Deadpool fan? That's embarrassing. Yes. He saw Deadpool 2 so many times. And then I had to break up with him. You don't like Deadpool because of how many good cutaway gags there are?

Wait a second! Anyways, the Orville. The thing I was fascinated by... You don't pivot back to this! No, no, no. Because I'm very fascinated by the Orville as a phenomenon. Because everyone was like, Oh, wow, Seth MacFarlane's still on this kick of trying to make himself an on-camera leading man.

So they're going to do some dumb parody version of Star Trek at the same time that real Star Trek is coming back. No, the Orville is sincere. That's what I was going to say. Yeah, yeah. I mean, with, like, jokes. They, like, tell jokes. The thing I was looking because when people were reviewing the show in a premiere, they were like, the first four episodes are weird because they oscillate between being totally straight and episodes that are more broadly comedic

but it's not just even a scene by scene thing it's like every other episode is like this and I was like well the show's gotten popular people seem to like it now some people they must have settled on a tone and the Wikipedia seems to imply that literally every other episode they oscillate between like this one's a goof

this one is super earnest it think Fox was sort of like it'll be funny right and Seth was like can some of them be funny and some of them be like Star Trek episodes and that's literally what they've like settled on some of them are like dead serious like socio-political like statements about like the world we live in today and this movie feels kind of like that

on a scene by scene basis except without any socio-political commentary but it's half like like, total face value, like we're trying to make gothic, like, romance, and half, like, weirdly broad fish-out-of-water comedy.

Well, it also just feels them trying to summarize a soap opera that ran for, like, 5,000 episodes. A million years. Right. I saw it with my friend,

past and future guest, Sam Rugal, and he said, that feels like a movie adapted from a TV show with 2,000 episodes. Because it feels like they tried to put

all 2,000 episodes of plot into one, two hours. Okay, listen up. Okay, so 17th century or whatever, 18th century, Moose to England,

Moose to Maine, whole family, falls in love with Maid, rejects the Maid, falls in love with the other lady, Maid kills him, turns him into a vampire.

They have to get that done fast. Right. And it's like this took uh six years right yeah there there was uh then he's dead and we cut to the 70s the whole beginning is funny and very like i don't know very like oh yeah this is a tim burtony thing where the whole way they described the collins family is like and we were so awesome and we we moved to Maine and no one was there. So we just started a cannery and we're kind of an amazing, nice, rich family.

And everyone likes us. I was like, you guys, there wasn't no one there. There were people there. Maine. Also, they like continually brag about like,

we built this town. It's like, yeah, no wonder people don't like you. You're like the evil, rich people in this scary mansion. Town is named after you. like you you're like the evil rich people in this scary mansion the town is named after you and then they're like open the cannery again and then how is that i don't know i don't know i the whole thing where they introduce these fucking like michelle pfeiffer's colonialist family and then they're like here are our heroes right that's they're the i guess

but the movie doesn't really have a hero right he hates the sort of families who run the towns usually until he had enough money to become the family to run now he lives right i mean i've said this before i'll say it again i i think the thing that's kind of depressing that sort of doomed Tim Burton is I get the sense that he got happy. Sure. And he doesn't really have anything like any chip on his shoulder anymore. Right. So he's just kind of like meh. So on one hand, I appreciate that he still doesn't act like he is the underdog.

I mean that would be infuriating. Right. But on the other hand, now when he loses his underdog identity it's like what perspective does he have on the world now and then and then we have to rewind and be like did he ever have any perspective was his perspective the very oh that's the question you're pushing buttons but the whole boy from burbank who think the suburbs so lame i when my parents love me so much i'm bored we have talked about even on other miniseries how that was like at the time felt very radical about like everything around me

is nice and I fucking hate it. Exactly, yeah. And it spoke to like a level of like Gen X like discomfort with like the world. Yeah, he's like a mascot. And it's also why his movies became so broadly popular is because any kid can relate to that. Especially when it's put in such aesthetically

cartoony terms. Especially when his movies are so funny. It's like every kid understands any sort of underdog outsider narrative because all kids feel weird. And then he made this, the movie that all kids love. Right. Movie for kids. And this is the weirdest thing about the movie. What was this movie for?

Nope. Nobody. Your mom, I guess. My mom. I had to set my mom aflame. This movie is for Johnny Depp fans and Dark Shadows fans like whatever that Venn diagram is

Johnny Depp fans were falling off like flies at this moment and then also I feel like your mom's an exception because I feel like most Dark Shadows fans were hey look your mom is an exceptional woman I want to go on the record. Your mom seems great. I don't want to do.

I mean, when this episode comes out, all the, all the stuff would have come out about my mom. We won't be able to stand by her anymore. We're going to have to. By the time this comes out. Yeah.

My mom will have really jumped the shark. She'll be canceled. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to have to cancel your mom. We're going to milkshake up your mom. That's going to be my whole narrative is I have to cancel my own mom. You're 20-day price.

That feels like it would be a plot line on like if someone was doing a show like The O.C. today. It would be like, I don't know what to do. I just realized my mom is problematic. My mom's canceled. Oh, my God. I have to drag her on Twitter. No, the thing I was going to say is I was surprised to hear that your mom was like, yeah, totally on board with it.

Because I feel like most big fans of this show found it like totally like infuriating. Well, that's why my aunties didn't like it. Okay, they hated it. Yeah, my aunties were frustrated and disappointed. It's disrespectful. They got everything wrong. They were frustrated about it because they loved Victoria. And Victoria is so like, where is she?

And as soon as she's seen, she disappears. She's all over like the first 20 minutes and then they're done with her. Cause like, right. We cut to the president. She's like, I'm going to Colin's house or whatever. Right. And you're like,

Oh, I guess this is like the protagonist. And then later I'm like, if Seth Gravesmith doesn't know what to do with a character, does he just make them imprisoned as a child? Like, is that his solution? He's like,

because we only context we have for that like insane flashback is uh which comes in like an hour and 20 minutes in like she she drops out late given up on victoria being a character with impact in this story sure she's it's like she's in her bed and she's a kid and she's like talking to ghosts much like david was that his name what's the kid who's the little kid yeah David that's my name uh but it's also calling me okay so she also can speak to ghosts and so they put her in an ambulance and then she's and she's in an insane asylum or whatever until two days before she meets Barnabas the vampire yeah she's not twisted no she's kind of unlike the other girls yeah right she's

oh also that scene with her and michelle fiverr that michelle fiverr is like three questions do you think women should have equal rights if no you're hired like of course not of course throw everything out of balance do you like the president and she she's oh victoria is apolitical later because i'm like maybe she doesn't know who the president is. She's been locked up for her whole life. The president at the time is Nixon, Richard M. Yes. Which is never really brought back up.

No, I think it's just like dumb gag. It feels like a slam dunk joke anytime you make a movie in the Nixon era where people can like show him on TV and it's like innately funny. And we know how that ends. I don't think Burton has a take though. That's the problem. He's just like I guess this is what the show is like and it's going to be wacky. But the first bit is her.

She shows up. She gets hired. She meets everybody. She's the protagonist or it seems to be the audience surrogate character. She meets Michelle who's like this old bag of bones or this old pile of rocks. Sheate character. Right. She meets Michelle, who's like, oh, this old bag of bones, or I don't know, this old pile of rocks. She meets Johnny Lee Miller. She meets the kids. She meets Helena

Bonham Carter. Yeah, Johnny Lee Miller doing backstrokes in the River of Ham. Kind of a fun performance, but he's going fucking galactic inside. Four scenes. He's doing a lot of face. He's evicted. He's canceled. fucking galactic four scenes four scenes like you know yes and then he's kicked out of the movie he's evicted

he's canceled the movie canceled then she sees her own ancestor as a ghost right seems pretty nonplussed by it

just like okay and the ghost is like he's coming Depp comes in and then it's like right they have to throw out the movie for Depp to fucking do his shit for an hour

right he does a lot of shit also what's the name of the woman who plays Victoria? Bella Heathcote. Okay, she is like 25 years younger than Johnny Depp. At the very least. It is.

I'm pretty sure it's exactly 25 years. She might not have been legal drinking age when this movie was shot. She's a very young woman. They kiss. No, she's 31 now. She's 31? Okay, so she was 21.

She's like my age. Three? They kiss, and then they French. And then this is what I don't need to see. He is 24 years older than her. No, no, no, I'm sorry. He's 14 years older than her. No, he's not.

That's not true. No. No, he's 24 years older. He's 20 years old. I'm bad at mathematics. He's an old motherfucker. Johnny Depp, seeing the climactic scene of this movie being Johnny Depp hitting a woman

in the face repeatedly and saying boy oh boy does that not age well or whatever boy oh boy does that not age well right

like even four years after that yeah especially the fact that he also keeps on buying wine during that fight yeah like he's just asking him

to charge more wine to his credit card I mean Johnny Depp as a you know unrepentant alcoholic just doesn't play. No, no, it doesn't, especially as a lecherous, abusive alcoholic. And again, I know that Barnabas is supposed to be like an antihero, right? Like he's not like. No, he's not like the great.

I mean, and again, show's inconsistent enough that sometimes he is and it was a soap opera anyway so you kind of just got to throw every plot at the wall yeah i get that but like in general though right he comes in he's a vampire bad he drinks blood we love that we love that right it is cool though we love that because he's got superpowers hey i've never seen a soap opera like this yeah right right but he's vampire drinks blood but this good businessman but mostly just because he can hypnotize people sure i'm trying to like get at barnabas here uh he's in love with victoria slash whoever looks like bella heathcote in that like right you know decade that bone structure right he's in love with that thing and that with that skellington but also he's kind of horny for eva green and then maybe just

anyone else who walks through the house right right because how the bottom carter sort of initiates that right that's sort of more her that's when ben had to stop the movie for a second i think yeah that was that that bj moment just just how i had to i had to take a break what was i forget where i chose to take a two-hour in the middle of rewatching this movie. But there. Yeah. What? That.

I don't. I don't know. Not that I need justification, but it's just so out of nowhere. He does fuck everyone in the world he's not related to. Right. I'm pretty sure. And then also, though, he's just sort of like kind of a nice dad who's giving like family advice. It's all over the map and I don't know what to grab onto with him.

No. I don't get him. No. Ben texted me and said I had to take a nap in the middle of this movie because it was stressing me out. That's so funny. And I had not started my rewatch yet. I had not seen this film in six years since when it was released in theaters. And I said, what made you tap out?

And he said, gas. And I responded within a millisecond the blowjob I knew. You remembered the blowjob? I remembered it so vividly because I will say the one thing that I find and I don't say this in a positive way but just in terms of talking about this movie in the auteurist

perspective the Tim Burton deep dive we're doing right now this movie is bizarre because it's the one Tim Burton movie that's hypersexual. Right, right, right. And his movies are usually fetishy, but they aren't physical. Like people are very chaste in them. And he always seemed like one of those like weird childlike directors who like doesn't want to deal with sex at all.

But Barnabas has to be like he's sexy. This movie is like Austin Powers. Like he's constantly talking about sex. There's so much implied sex. There are a lot of really bawdy jokes. The blowjob thing is very fucking weird.

And then she's thrown in the bottom of a river. He does throw his then wife to the bottom of a river. Yeah, and then wife, but you know, I think they never married, but this is the last

Bonham Carter in the first Eva Green movie. Right. This is sort of the handle. Oh, is he with Eva Green? Unclear. They were seen. Shrug.

They've been seen hanging. She's been in, obviously, all his movies. I didn't enjoy her in this movie very much, but I also didn't really enjoy anyone in this movie. Yeah, I love Eva Green. She's, I think, I mean, she obviously she's sort of an insanely like stunning person so it makes sense yeah casting her as a witch is the laziest casting decision anyone can make it's been done like three times correct like you know and what i couldn't handle is her accent where she's like half american and then half just ev Green regular. It's weird. The other thing that's weird

with her is like watching her in this movie with blonde hair, you're like, that's not right. She looks weird as a blonde. Do you know that she is a blonde and just dyes her hair black all the time? Because of her classic witch type. Because she is a witch. Her goth casting? But she's one of those people

where it's like, oh yeah, she looks like a Tim Burton genre. She has that sort of heightened energy energy she would make sense in tim burton movies she's done two of them now the third one which is about to be released yeah and they don't really work like the performance doesn't really work i don't think she's bad she's better in peregrine right but she also has very little to do in that movie she does she does this movie at least she's kind of fun she's got some things i like those i do, at least, she's kind of fun. She's got some things. The accents all over the place. I like those. The cracking thing is kind of... I like that

visual. And also, Barnabas telling you you have no heart. I'm like, you have fucked everyone at this house. Right. Yes. Truly. They both suck. Let them both fuck off to hell. I don't care.

There's also this weird note. Such bad writing. It feels like a studio note where they're like, look, we don't want Barnabas to look like a predator, so can we make it that all the women want to fuck him? Because for how much sex he has in this movie, there's a lot of women aggressively being like, fuck me now.

And he looks horrible. I mean, it is that thing where Depp is just no longer very charismatic. Yeah. He looks like a fucking weirdo it's interesting to me that this is a character he really wanted to play because that didn't read to me in the performance at all it reads like he's just doing his shit

yeah he's like oh hello that's so interesting I would tie the cape around my house and run around the living room pretending to be Barnabas like he was like this movie is entirely him pushing this rock up a hill. That's so weird.

Why didn't he try harder? That's so weird. I don't know. Yeah. The whole Eva Green, I mean the Eva Green character, the way the character's written, because Angelique's another character

from the show. Sure. And she's like, you know, one of the villains, right? She's, yes, but it's not. She's a schemer.

It's not like yeah right it's like again it's like over years but but uh in in this movie she is like poor and wasn't allowed to look at him when she was a child right and then he kind of like about that also a weird moment weird like why was that there right and then he kind of like gives her the fuck boy uh manifesto when they're older and he's like, I cannot tell you I love you. It would be a lie or whatever. And then she's like, okay, I'm going to punish you for the rest of your-

Curse you as a vampire. I'm going to force everyone you love to commit suicide. And also the ending of this movie is so dumb. Can we talk about the cliff? This cliff. Let's talk about the cliff. People love this cliff.

What's with the logic of the cliff? They're addicted to the cliff. They're addicted to the cliff. People love this cliff. What's with the logic of the cliff? They're addicted to the cliff. They're addicted to the cliff. I just feel like I've never seen a movie deal with cliffs in new ways. I mean, it is Maine. I guess it's a cliffy place. When in other stories have you ever heard of a cliff turning people into something? It's true.

Falling off the cliff turns you into a vampire. A haunted cliff isn't really like a popular. Falling off the cliff turns you into a vampire. A haunted cliff isn't really like a popular trope. Well, also, again, the movie's just kind of... Is the cliff haunted? I don't know.

It's certainly got some bad juju. Or is the spell like that she's whipping up is like you become a vampire but you must jump off the cliff. The only spell she casts is capitalism. You know what I'm talking about?

Swish. That's the thing. Like, this movie is like, the tagline for this movie in the apathetic marketing campaign that started six weeks before it was released in 3,000 theaters. No.

The tagline was, every family has its demons. Right. And I feel like all the like taglines in the trailers were things like, strange as relative. That's the sub tagline. Like they were trying to make.

They're just trying to be like, this is the Addams family. And then the character posters. They're just trying to be like, this is the Addams Family. And then the character posters are so lazy where they're just like, each one's one color and then desaturated their faces. Golly McGrath's famed character poster. I joke about this all the time. I'm hyped up for Golly McGrath.

I joke about this all the time. It's a running joke on the podcast. Golly Nation was freaking over that poster. Can you imagine? What's he up to these days, Golly? He was in Lincoln. 2012 was big for him. 2012 seems like that's his year. Yeah, he was in Lincoln.

Oh, he's got a jaunty hat here. It's like I always say, give me the Gully. I love Gully. You were demonized by Sully's but saved by Gully's, right? Because you said your bully was named Sully but Gully was your best friend.

That's going to be my memoir, Sully's and Gully was your best friend he's basically done nothing since then he's Australian right here's Johnny Lee Miller's character poster I mean you know that's gotta be worth five bucks right like all these posters feel like an intern made them in five seconds on photoshop and the angles they're trying to hit is like did you talk to Jackie about this one

you know what I did talk about with him because he worked with Jackie Earl Haley oh no way he's just dialed in he's perfect for that role You know what I did talk about with him? Because he worked with Jackie Earl Haley. Oh, no way. Great actor, great man. That's one of the few performances I really enjoy in this movie. I think he's really fun in this. He's just dialed in. He's perfect for that role. He's funny.

He's got an axe, sure. I'll say I think the thing that Jackie Earl Haley is great at is identifying what the tone of the movie is. Right, right, right. Because he's capable of being very small. He's capable of being very big and working in different genres. But even movies I hate, like the Robocop remake. He's the one guy

who's like the exact right pitch. And he's doing a pretty like not cartoonish thing in that movie. Right. He did weirdly talk about that movie a lot because he couldn't stop

raving about how good his wig was in that movie. Oh it is a nice wig. It's a good wig. He was talking about And I'm sure he wears a lot of wigs. Yes.

Yes. yeah it's probably it's probably big coming from him he's like an ideally bald man where you can place any sort of mannequin hairstyle on him and uh he was i will not name names but he was dragging actors who uh wear toupees sure like not character wigs but come in with their own toupee. And they're like, this is my own hair. And it's like, the movie looks shitty now. Let the hair and makeup department. Right, the hair people can give you a great wig. Right.

I liked Johnny Depp's bangs in this movie. Sure. I like his little sunglasses. Oh, yes. I did like the kind of oversized, kind of hackery. I kind of liked that. If he was a hacker in this movie. You know,

maybe then we've got something in the nineties, you know, Barnabas, a computer for crying computer, a bones computer. Yeah. Ada Bones, a haunted computer from the clip.

That would make this movie a hundred times. Someone should force Tim Burton to make a movie for like five million dollars again and get him back to basics and be like, this is called The Haunted Computer. Go off. Do it.

I just imagine like me walking into Hollywood like I'm like the big script polish guy and they're like, come on, David. What do we do with Dark Shadows? And I'm like,

easy, Haunted Computer. And they're like, oh, thank God. And then it gets a virus on The Haunted Computer and then the computer becomes real. Oh, shit. And then it gets a virus on the haunted computer and then the computer becomes real. Oh shit. Real?

A desktop grows legs. Like a sentient desktop. What do you want to say? Jamie, we are recording this episode like five months in advance of when it comes out. So A, this is on the record and B, you can now just go pitch this

to Tim Burton. I have the script written by the time this comes out. You can have this written in production. The haunted computer. My takeaway walking out of this movie, even though I liked it more than the rest of you, and I can't really defend it at all, but I just, you know, whatever. I fall for his shit. I get drunk, and I end up hooking up with Tim Burton again, and I regret it.

But the two things about it I was going to say. One, I walk out of this and I go, okay, but seriously, someone like sit him down, give him a limited budget, make him like focus up and tell a real story. And then I would argue he does that and no one goes to see the movie. Which one? Big Eyes.

Oh, interesting. I did not hate Big Eyes. I saw Big Eyes guys i like big guys a lot whether or not you like it it was him doing exactly what he needed to do in his career which is like focus up tell a human story work with real actors solid script and i did kind of hate the fact that no one fucking went to see it and that everyone there's a reason no one went to see it. No one cares. I'm aware. Some of the eyes were big. They're really big. They are really big. Don't be disrespectful.

They're really big. I'll admit this. I didn't even see the movie. And I love big shit. You'll see it next week. Oh, right. You'll love the eyes. Right, right.

But the other thing I was going to say, you know... Did you make polish? I'll do it next week. But Clint Eastwood should have played the art dealer. And he's just like, why are the eyes so big? That's? I'll do it next week. But Clint Eastwood should have played the art dealer. Right. And he's just like, oh, he's so big.

I just, that's what I wanted. Just him wandering. I'm like, yeah, he's a really big. One of those eyes. Why are they so big?

Get off my face. That was teetering. The Jack Nicholson movie. We'll talk about it next week, but that movie, it should just be like, someone should just be like, the fuck is with you

and the eyes like why are they so big and instead the movie gets too bogged down and like oh the guy stole the movie's trying to tell you how the eyes are big

but then you're like just someone ask the question directly right someone like you know I get that they were popular which is what the movie becomes about

but I wish someone would just get it out and be like do you just like them big because of the pain yeah it was because the eyes are big because of the pain becomes about, but I wish someone would just get it out and be like, do you just like them big? Because of the pain. Because of all that pain.

I just feel like, you know. All the better to reflect the patriarchy. We'll talk about this next week. I've never seen Frankenweenie. I think we're going to do Frankenweenie behind a paywall. We'll figure it out. Exactly. We'll hide that in some tier. It'll be a $1,000 black label episode.

Right. Just because this main series is too fucking long. Yeah, he's an unwieldy career. But, no, you know, this movie had a very big budget and underperformed at the box office. This movie, yeah. This movie cost $150 million. It did like 80 domestic. Yeah, we'll get to that.

But it's still like when you go okay, this was a failure. The critics didn't like it. It lost money. It still made like nine times what big guys make. Sure. If you're Tim Burton, you kind of slink away from that and go like I don't know. I guess I should keep making these big things. Or you just

make big years. Yeah, big years. He these big things. I'll make Dumbo. Yeah, Big Ears. He makes Big Ears and they retitled Dumbo. Look, he can make as many movies as he wants as if he puts Colin Farrell in them. He can make Dark Shadows with Colin Farrell and I'll watch it. I just feel like if he's got enough money, it's like he has enough money to live 500 lives now.

So why doesn't he just make... He's going full Barnabas. But then just make the movies you want to make you don't go you don't gotta live 500 more years like the diagnosis is like maybe he just doesn't know what he wants to make right like i don't know here's what bugs boy from burbank there are a bunch of things that like when he was like in his like 90s golden boy period was developing that they were like too far out there we're not gonna make this that i think he could make today he could he could uh warm him up and i'm always waiting for him to pull one of those like passion projects out of the vault and it

like doesn't fucking happen he signs on to another 200 million dollar it's tim burton's twisted take on blank and like one of them is like uh uh there's uh what the fuck is it called there's there is a manga comic the psychic girl that's what you're talking about which you want to adapt as a musical with sparks doing all the songs right oh and that's exactly what i want to see it does look kind of cool yes that sounds really good that's such an oddball project he's clearly passionate about it him doing a musical again sounds great him doing fucking something with spark sounds great. Like, I wish he, like, pulled out, like,

like, Sweeney Todd, which I like is, like, very much. Do you like the Sweeney? I do like Sweeney Todd. I like the Sweeney. Sweeney. Yes. But that was someone where he was like, Barnabas.

This meant a lot to me. I'm gonna make you a pie. My Sweeney episode's gonna be wild. You want him to, like, pull out, like, shit that he cares about, not, like, big brand shit, shit, you know, but like people he wants to work with, writers he likes. I don't know. Sure. Because he kind of can make anything now.

He can. Yeah. If he feels strongly about something, Timmy, just do it. You got the money. Timmy, are you listening? It's frustrating because in such a franchise branded universe, he's one of the guys where like his name is the brand. So like Tim Burton's take on whatever, that's the marketing campaign. It doesn't matter if it's based off a book that everyone knows.

Tim Burton's haunted computer. Yeah, Bone computer. Tim Bones. Tim Bones computer. Tim Burton's the haunted computer. The Bones computer. From the visionary mind of Tim Burton. From the haunted computer. The bones computer. From the visionary mind of Tim Burton. From the visionary computer.

Is there anything left to say about fucking Shadows? Fan praise, but we gotta say it because you're here. This movie does pass the Bechdel cast. The Bechdel cast. It does pass the test though. A lot of female characters. It does pass the test though it does pass the

Bechdel test many times well I mean not many it passes but it passes with weird phrases like

do you believe women deserve equal rights no so that's not a great pass no it's a soft pass

it's a very soft it's a flawed metric it kills all the hippies I love that scene yeah it's kind of a funny scene Hannah Murray yeah

yeah that's funny I was like oh this is a comedy and then the next scene it's like no it's not but it's just Depp just should be dialed in and so he's just like regrettably I must kill you now

and you're just like that's all you got for this like where's the fun I've never felt less feeling between two. Jack Sparrow here. Like, Johnny Depp and Bella Heathcote,

there's just, there's nothing there. Yeah. I'm like, they may have never actually met. They may have been like, she's legally too young to be around you.

So we're going to just make a kissy face in front of a green screen. Which is where child hours. Yeah. Is she the one who eats in Neon Demon? Who eats the other model? That's pretty cool.

And then barfs up an eyeball. Yeah, I think she's very good in that movie. Me too. I like her in Professor Marston. The green throw up. Oh, that's goofy. That comes out of nowhere. Yeah.

That's in your... You see, you like the final crazy 15 minutes when it's just barf and vomit. I just like when they're just like, fuck it. She's a werewolf. They're vomiting. They're on the ceilings. Whatever. What do you got, Jamie?

Take them down. Well, I liked the barf, but then he just beats her up for like 10 minutes. Right. And we don't want to see Johnny Depp beating a lady up. We don't. That's true. We don't want to see Johnny Depp beating up a blonde woman.

No. No, never again. It is. And then she shatters, which I thought was like the most Tim Burton-y. She takes her heart out.

Offers it to him. And then he's like, I cannot accept. She shatters. She shatters. And it's, and so what? He was wrong?

She had a heart the whole time? So he's wrong? I mean, no. So he's wrong. Come on, Griff. Come on, weigh in. I, yes.? She had a heart the whole time? So he's wrong? I mean, no. So he's wrong. Come on, Griff. Come on, weigh in. Yes. Did she have a heart or not?

She did. She offered it to him. Well, is it a heart? And then they go twilight at the end. And then Victoria, which in the show, if I recall quickly, Victoria does eventually become a vampire as well. But what a weird way to end the movie of like, no, she has to kill herself. She has to.

The movie ends setting up a sequel and then people would ask Tim Burton like are you going to do a sequel and he's like no I don't think so it's not meant to be a franchise darker shadows

but I guess he was just like soap operas have cliffhangers so it should have a cliffhanger you do feel though there is a cliff there's a universe in which you go like okay

haunted vampire cliffhanger it's not dark shadows right you don't have the property dark shadows so instead you just do like he's a vampire and he comes back to the 70s. In 2010 or whenever when they were trying to green light this movie, right? Yeah. If you said, oh my God, here's the pitch.

Johnny Depp and Tim Burton do a movie. We're playing off the Twilight thing. Everyone thinks vampires are sexy now. It's a movie where like a like 1700s vampire wakes up in modern day and he doesn't know what anything is anymore. That would work as a broad comedy as sort of like a pre what we do in the shadows

like fish out of water. That's what it would be. He's really heightened. I feel like committed to it. What we do in the shadows is right. The movie that cracked that did a good job. And makes this movie even shittier because then the comedy stuff doesn't really work even less than it did when it was released right yes well the problem is as jamie's kind of said like he comes back and he's like a rich guy so like there's not a lot of tension and they don't have a fucking rich guy he comes back he like opens the secret thing yes

and it's like a bunch of riches yeah there's no yeah he immediately makes them wealthy again right they accept him. Yeah. Right, they're like, cool, right. There's that scene

where he's revealed to be a vampire to everyone else and they're like, but then that's it. But then they're like, okay. And then,

and Chloe Grace Moretz is a werewolf. Right. Oh, don't make a big deal out of it. Very empowering. Very empowering. I mean,

you're right. Hey, could you tell that she was cool because she listens to music all the time? Did you guys pick up on that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, she you tell that she was cool because she listens to music all the time? Did you guys pick up on that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, she's like super, super cool.

And she has like strong takes about the music of the time. And we love that. Right, right. Oh, because I couldn't tell at first, but I was like, this is the 70s. Right. Okay. That's why Chloe Grace Morales is there to remind you what year it is. I am realizing as we talk over this, the only dramatic conflict of the movie is

will Johnny Depp punch this blonde woman? It truly is because everything else they resolve. She's like, I'm going to ruin your life. Because everything else that's introduced as a conflict gets resolved within the same scene. I mean, there's this sort of like... The dad's a problem, we're shipping him off. The business is failing, he brainwashes people.

The psychiatrist is stealing his blood. He kills her off the fucking haunted cliff. The only long-term conflict in this movie is when's he going to punch that woman? Which is bad. And then he does a lot. And she's dead. So Johnny Depp kills a lady.

That's awesome. He actually kills a lot of people. He does. He kills a lot of people. Mostly off-screen. They have sex, people. He does. He kills a lot of people. He kills a lot of people. Mostly off screen. Chloe Grace is a werewolf with no big deal. They have sex too. Eva Green.

Where they're like fighting and smashing the room. Right. And the piano and stuff. Which is just weird to see in a Tim Burton movie. It is. It's kind of equivalent

to the sex scene at the end of Munich where it's like it feels weird to show him like to see him shooting sex scenes. Yeah. Like that feels like

that doesn't fit into his universe. I feel like that's maybe why the sex scene is so uncanny valley and bad where Tim Burton is just like

I don't you're all clawing at each other I don't know plays the piano with her butt Helena Bonham Carter and I just stare

at each other really hard I don't know but they were like one of those couples where like the whole time they were together they lived in separate houses

right they had like two different small gothic cottages that were like connected by an underground tunnel. How is it not exhausting being a person like that? I don't know. It just sounds exhausting to having to commit to the bit quite that hard. I'm going to tell a story now that I – I don't know if there was an appropriate episode to tell, but I'll just tell it here. So like Tim Burton kid, diehard. He was my guy.

I'm, like, 10 years old. We have to do an independent research project at school. I'm like, Timmy B, baby. I'm doing my Tim Burton thing. I'm all in on it. I'm, like, 10. I'm reading, like, Burton on Burton books. You know, in, like, a limited internet access era.

I'm, like, going all in on everything I can find. All of it, right? He's hitting JSTOR. Yes. And my dad comes home one day and goes like I have some big news for you and I was like what is it and he was like new tenant moving into our building

like apartment 7J Tim Burton and I was like what and he was like got the scoop from the front desk he's moving in and it was him and Lisa Marie so yeah when are we talking? This is 2000. This is a good time to be Tim Burton's lover.

This is 99-2000. It's pre-Plant of the Apes. So in my mind, he has not made a bad film ever. I'm like, this guy is 10 for 10. Lisa Marie's in Plant of the Apes. Correct. So this is before they're going to film Plant of the Apes. He moves into the building and I'm just like shaking with excitement.

Now you talk about it must be exhausting to be that much yourself, right? Yes. At the age of 10 when Tim Burton's reputation is still really good, his quality, consistency of output is really strong and high and everything. My thing was just like, this dude's brand is fucking awesome and Halloween is going to be lit in this building. As a 10-year-old, I was like, I can't even. He moves in, and spiders are carrying the fucking bags or whatever.

Because he moves in in November or December, right? So I'm like, I've got to wait almost a full year to get that Halloween going. You never see him in the building, right? And it was just like, when's he going to come? He's busy with the apes. When's he going to come? And we're doing it in our building. I live in an apartment building.

Trick-or-treating in New York City is terrible. But you're like going up and down the stages. I just would run loose in my building, yeah. My building was full of old people who didn't like children. Okay. And we like got to his like, because he had like a fake name on like the board in the building. But we knew which apartment was his. Mr. Bones? Yeah. Spooky Spookerson. And I was like we're gonna like ring the bell and like Lisa Marie's gonna come out in Rick Baker makeup. Right right right. And like you said there's gonna

be like a skellington like fucking a spider in the background or whatever. Like he'll have dressed up we'll get a look into his apartment and he literally just had the bowl with the fun size and just a sign that said like take one and it wasn't even

his handwriting. Like I was like maybe the sign will have like a drawing on it or whatever. Did he even answer the door or was it just like there was a bowl?

No it was one of those the bowl's there please take one. Wow. Yeah. That's a bummer. So you never saw timmy b i met him in the elevator once and it was like an out-of-body experience i'm a big man i could

barely speak and my dad did the talking for me and was like this is my son he like you know he did a presentation oh man that's cool this far out and i just was like like i went to school i told everybody simply the best best I was just like on like such a high but I met him for like five seconds he was nice to me that's great

I mean it was like you know four floors of conversation before we got to his you know his moment to walk out well my

my friend in high school was his mom was Samantha well was Samantha Morton's agent but was also

Helena Bonham Carter's agent. Okay. So they knew them. I don't know. They were nice. That was all I heard. They were fine. Supposed to be nice people.

Yeah. They lived in their house. Again, you would not hear that Tim Burton was cooking at a cauldron or whatever. No. No, I think he's fairly like, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. He's 60.

He's 60. It's weird that he's 60. He's tired. like, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. He's 60. He's 60. It's weird that he's 60. He's tired. He's tired. Let him sleep. Can you let Tim sleep? Don't wake him up for dark shadows. Yeah, let him sleep.

Let him sleep. For a thousand years. This cute little house. Okay, let's do Box Office game on this movie. I did look it up. They literally didn't release a trailer until mid-March and the film came out mid-May. For a $150 million movie, that's like a clear sign that you're giving up.

Box office game is I'm going to... Griff's going to try and guess the movies that were top five of the box office of the week. This movie came out. This is the only thing my brain stores. It's really alarming. So, May 11th, 2012. Oh oh i know the one that i okay

so number one you probably know what number one was starting the summer was avengers yeah and so in its second week yeah in its second week avengers made 103 million dollars right first movie ever cracked to hundo um uh so so that was still just you know that was it dark shadows opens against us like you know who was it Dark Shadows opens against us like you know who cares like I'm still like an apologetic Burton fan

I go see Dark Shadows opening night but that weekend I remember specifically being more excited to see Avengers a second time right

after not liking the previous Marvel movies I think Avengers is great but I don't oh I love Avengers too I like Marvel movies it seems it seems like people like it I've never seen it they're quite popular I think that one's Oh I love Avengers too I like Marvel movies It seems like people like it

I've never seen it They're quite popular I think that one's very well written No I mean We love the Avengers We'll talk about it We'll talk about the Avengers Yeah

Number three Is sort of like a Ensemble comedy Based on an advice book I saw this You did? What to expect and you're expecting nope no it's um it's it's not uh who do you think it's by jamie i know the word oh i know what it is you're close you're close to think like a man think like a man oh that's not what that's not

what you're thinking of okay wow which one were you thinking of i was thinking of a movie that i think actually came out in 2010 which is he? He's Just Not That Into You. Oh, sure. Another of the anthology nonfiction turned into bad movie. Right.

That was the start of them. And then there was The Rush where they were like Think Like a Man is kind of like an updated take on that where it's like, you know,

relationships. We're all in them. But that's that run where it's like you buy an advice book. You make it into Steve Harvey's advice book. It is Steve Harvey run where it's like you buy an advice book. You make it into an ensemble. Steve Harvey's advice book. Make a man act like a lady.

Yes. The plot of these two movies, the first one, because I'm like, he's just not that into you or like what to expect when you're expecting. It's like they take the sort of lessons from the book and they dramatize them into a funny little slice of life settings. Right. Chase Crawford or whatever. Yeah. This one is about everyone reading the book. Oh, weird.

It's all the women in the relationship start reading the Steve Harvey book. And then they roast their men? 8,000 times. And Steve Harvey's in it as himself. Yes, but only through talk show appearances. I think they never meet him. Sure, okay. But it's weird because they treat, think like a man in the movie, it's the bible and it's the thing that like unlocks them it's

kind of like book club except more about the book than the film book club right um but the other weird thing is his advice book is like hey listen to me i'm steve harvey i've been divorced several times right my advice is for a marriage to work the woman has to do everything the man wants to do and also figure out everything the man wants to do and also figure out what the man wants and think like him and preemptively do those things before he asks think like him, don't behave like him

think like him and then do what he wants fuck Steve Harvey those movies are kind of fun I like it when Kenan does Steve Harvey though on SNL, he's really funny the second one is like a just the boys

go to Vegas movie. Oh great. It has nothing to do with like the advice sort of shit. It's the boys two of the people are getting married

and all the boys and the girls think like a man too. T-O-O. The boys and the girls go to Vegas and it's like a bachelor party a bachelorette party

and the only way that Steve Harvey is brought into the movie is they get really hung up playing the Steve Harvey slot machine in Vegas. Isn't Turtle Turtles in it? Turtles in both of them. He is dating Gabrielle Union because that makes sense.

Are you cool with Turtle? Are you down with Turtle? I'm down with Turtle. I'm down with Turtle. Yeah, he likes sneakers. Okay, number four is a big, huge, gigantic movie of the summer. Are you joking? No.

It's like franchise starter. It's been around for like eight weeks at this point. Of the summer? are you joking no it's like franchise starter it's been around for like eight weeks at this point of the summer so it's from the spring it's from the truly but it was a big it was a big spring picture don't franchise seasons split seasonal hairs with me yeah uh okay so yeah you're right it came out of march franchise starter yep in march made 400 plus million dollars. Whoa. Giant smash hit. 2012? 2012.

Oh, The Hunger Games? The Hunger Games. Oh. Hunger Games. With Jennifer Lawrence. A massive, a massive movie and a star is born. And that's when she becomes a superstar. And then she wins an Oscar.

Cool. And then she turned 23. Right. And then number five is. It's crazy how fast and how big everything happened for her. I just was like thinking about her career the other day and just realizing how much of a mental breakdown I would have. Being her. Yeah.

Just the rocket ship speed and everyone being like, she's fun. We want to get drinks with her. And then being like, no, fuck her. She seems fine, too. She seems very well adjusted. she seems kind of okay with it number five is Nicholas Sparks kind of thing I'm not actually even sure if it's Nicholas Sparks

is it the Miley Cyrus one? no it's not is it the one it stars another teen idol like now is it the Zac Efron one Zac Efron it's Zac Efron and Taylor Schilling

and it's called it's not called the best of me right that's James Marsden is it called the something yeah it's the blank blank and is it describing the person the names are always so is it describing the person? Yeah, because the names are always so like...

Is it describing the person or is it describing the relationship? Person? I think. I haven't seen it. Is it like the blank man? Is it something like that?

No, it's the blank blank. Not man. The quiet one. Nope. Close. One is right. Fuck. It's not quiet

The nice one It's not brave I'm sure he's nice The good one Oh my god It's the blank one What kind of tone are they putting out? What kind of vibe does this guy have?

I've pulled out my headphones The strong one He was in war Is it the brave one? No that's Jodie Foster Right The only one? The brave one? No, that's Jodie Foster. And he survived. The only one? The last one?

Nope. The strong one? Ben gave you a clue. He was in war? He survived. The living one? L is right. The lonely one?

Nope. We're getting so close.'re hovering around the he survived the lucky one lucky one he was lucky because he got to be in a nicholas sparks exactly okay he's got abs wow up the wazoo look at those abs yeah i mean you're right. Pecs. Yeah. I mean, he probably has abs. Go Zac Efron. Where do you stand on Zac Efron? I love him.

I'm a big fan. I love him. I'm a big fan. He's got range. I think he's a really good actor and a really good movie star. And I was really excited when, like, Neighbors, it was like, okay. They finally cracked him. Now he's taken seriously and everything he's made post neighbors has been a disaster like Mike and Dave

and Baywatch oh yeah Baywatch I like that he does it I like that he does it I don't know I still really like Zach Efron I always wanted him to be doing like comedies I wanted to bring back his high school musical haircut he's so fucking good in high school musical 3 god

I mean in all of them. His number in High School Musical 2, right? On the golf course. I just like 3 because it's cinematic. They got some real production value. I mean, well, they got the movie budget. Exactly. Right.

And they have more than the theaters, baby. Good guy in DCOM. Yeah. I like the one who plays the piano in High School Musical. The weird old girl. Oh, the girl. Who's got glasses or whatever. What's her?

Odessa Rulan or whatever sure yes the girl she's awkward she's awkward but then but she gets kissed

at some point of course they all get kissed gotta get a kiss Corbin Bleu yeah Corbin Bleu is I heard in

Beetlejuice the Musical right now is he really is that unless I have some is he playing Beetlejuice very bad Alex Reitman Reitman is playing Beet have some very bad. Alex Reitman.

Reitman is playing Beetlejuice. I know. Alex Reitman. He originated the role of Dewey Finn in the School of Rock musical. He's playing the juice. Fun. What was the thing I was going to say about High School Musical? I'm looking up Corbin Blue on the Internet Broadway database.

Corbin Blue Beetlejuice? This is something someone told me yesterday. Looking it up. Oh, no. Okay, yeah. He's in the DC version of Beetlejuice.

Right, right. He'll be in DC. Yes. Is he playing Beetlejuice in DC? Who's he playing in DC? Because the DC one is going on right now

and then they're going to transfer to Broadway. Well, it will happen. By the time this episode comes out, it will be about to open on Broadway, I think. I don't fucking know. Blue is affiliated with Beetlejuice. Hard to know exactly what.

We're like, he's doing. He's also going to be on Kiss Me Kate on Broadway next year. I love Corbin Blue, too. The whole cast of High School Musicals. I think we should all go see Kiss Me Kate on Broadway next year. I love Corbin Bleu, too. The whole cast of High School Musicals. I think we should all go see Kiss Me Kate on Broadway. Fine. In May of 2019. What's Ashley Tisdale up to?

Is she a brunette again? I feel like she went back to Disney Channel. Has she been pregnant that many times? No, I thought she was a brunette. Oh, I thought you said, is she pregnant again? No, she's a natural brunette interesting i was yeah i'm pregnancy shaming ashley tisdale i don't like that in wikipedia under public image it says tisdale is considered a sex symbol and there's a link to sex symbol oh is actually distilled a picture famous person or fictional character widely regarded to be sexually attractive.

Here's the picture. It's Marilyn Monroe. Oh, wow. I've heard of her. Sorry. She's commonly associated with sex. Right. Ashley Tisdale was in some sort of animated film called Charming.

Look, we're stealing material here because this is the context we're going to need when we do our Kenny Ortega miniseries. Let's just save it. I love Ortega. Ortegs? Newsies? Newsies! Hocus Pocus? God, the dancer who wanted to direct. What a compelling narrative. Newsies is an insane movie.

It's insane. Ortega's weird. He directed the Michael Jackson posthumous concert documentary. Yeah, he was sort of in with Jackson. He did a lot of Michael Jackson stuff. That documentary is all him talking to Michael Jackson posthumous concert documentary. Yeah, he was sort of in with Jackson. He did a lot of Michael Jackson stuff. That documentary is all him talking to Michael Jackson. A great selection of pants. Yes, he's a very well-dressed man.

He's got the pants on that man, I swear. He also directed a lot of Gilmore Girls episodes, like a lot. He did. Yes. So I know him from that. Okay, so on the record right now, Kenny Ortega is our next miniseries. He's only got four, five movies. Oh, it's easy. Are three of them high school musicals?

Oh, I guess if you count the high school musicals, right. Yeah, because he still directs a lot of Disney Channel stuff. I mean, he did the two Descendants movies. He also directed the Cheetah Girls 2. Wow, the one in Spain. Yes. Directed an episode of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Directed an episode of Bunheads. Oh, see.

Bunheads. Bunheads? He's in with Amy Sherman Palladino. He has not theatrically released movies since Michael Jackson's This Is It. I guess you could say that was it. Jamie, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I love to talk about the boy from Burbank. The boy from Burbank. So sad.

Seriously, thank you for coming. It was great. You're in New York for like 24 hours and we we wanted to make this happen so badly we made it happen

we made it happen success right Ben? yes wait did you remember to hit record Ben? yeah oh thank god

okay I had to double check I love that we both had to take a nap during this movie yeah it just it was rough I needed a future length nap in the middle of the movie.

Same. I finally finished this morning. I had to delay it actually. Like I had to go to bed and then finish it. A little Dark Shadows breakfast. I put this, I put it on my iPad and I watched it on the subway to my girl with the drag, girl in the spider web screening. Dating this episode.

Yeah. The girl in the spider web screening. Did you like it? No. Okay, good. It's not good. I haven't seen it. It's bad. Hacker. Eighteen hacking scenes. If you want hacking, she's hacking up the wazoo.

But hacking from her phone, like a phone hacking. I don't know. I'm just very surprised that choosing not to bring back the person who got an Oscar nomination for playing the character was a bad creative choice I

yeah do you think that they eventually just were like forget it we don't want to do it or did they genuinely like sort of get cut out of it she has said that she wanted to do it

and was upset that she didn't get offered that's weird Remar didn't even get an offer no that cause she had the contract and when like

Fincher's not doing it they they're doing the fourth book, and she was like, in an interview, she was like, I haven't talked to anyone, but I'd like to do it. Then they announced Claire Foy, and she was like, I don't know, they never reached out to me. The thing that's really weird about the movie is that it's based on the fourth book, and the movie essentially is kind of like, you remember what happened in the second and third books, right?

I'm like, I know, I actually never read them. The movie's like, sure you do. Yeah, she's got like a dad and a sister and shit i'm like i know i i didn't know and they were like oh well we figured you knew all that you know so this makes no sense it's so weird it's just like everyone was like pretty on board with that performance and then to throw that out like floy is at least fine she's a good actor in the movie she's fine she's not good but she's fine but like you went from daniel craig to a random swedish guy that's the other thing they just cast a random swedish guy and he's like such a wet blanket it's the swedish chef isn't it yes it's swedish chef yeah exactly yeah yeah and vicky creeps is in it but it's before phantom thread like came out so they're just

sort of like she's in like two scenes and you're like give me more creeps that's always the weirdest phenomenon when like lapita nyong'o is like one of the flight attendants and non-stop which was shot before 12 years a slave so by the time the movie comes out she's won an oscar and her only line is like and what do you like sparkling but still like she's on camera a lot but mostly it's like a featured extra uh anyway that's been our boiling hot girl in the spiderwe web talk is now being released five months after the film has been released.

I'm sorry. No, burning hot episode. People were waiting for those takes, baby. I mean, it was the Dark Shadows episode, so whatever.

Like, we can be as weird as we want, right? Yeah, it's a weird movie. Hey, look, family is strange, right? Strange is relative.

I fucked it up. Strange is relative. Jamie, everyone should listen to Bechdelcast. Anything else you want to plug for the month of March 2019? In March? Oh, God.

I mean, I'm going to be popping off in March just to wait. Yeah. I'll just listen to the Bechdelcast. New episodes on Thursday. Google to figure out what your Twitter account is at that time. Yeah, hopefully it'll be resolved. I was just rejected today, so. Really?

Oh, yeah. I'm appealing and appealing. What a good company. What a good company what a great i love that i like so much of like my interaction with people who like this show is tied to that stupid fucking website you know what i mean you're also the one person who still kind of enjoys it i like twitter because it but i only use it to talk to my friend that's what you say every time i stress it about twitter david just goes like come on well i mean it's my friend i ignore all the others.

He blocks everything else out. Right. I'm like an extreme muter. Like it's mute, mute crazy. And sometimes to the extent that like people will be like, I can't believe it.

And I'm like, they can't believe what? I have to like tap through three things. He like literally mutes anyone who isn't a friend of his. Yeah. If you did all corporations,

all strangers. I turned off all notifications from people who don't follow me which really did change my life right that's the big one that was huge okay because the Atlantic

will tweet me out and people will be like and I was just like no goodbye forever I never wanted to see this David likes it because he's a very funny texter he's a really good person

to text with oh thank you he's the king of the slack wow that's a that's a big compliment thank you and so like he gets to just have like friend conversations publicly on Twitter and then gets likes for it.

Right. You just get to be loved for being yourself. Right. He's literally having conversations with people publicly and people are like, good writer, good writer. Funny, funny, funny. You're right. You probably nailed it. I think that's your entire.

What, I mean, I'm just, I'm an incredibly social person in general. So I think like Twitter is just another way for me to like chat to my friends if I'm just, I'm an incredibly social person in general. So I think like Twitter is just another way for me to like chat to my friends. If I'm bored, David like screams at people. If they don't tell him what's going on in their life. Yeah. I'm just get so mad.

He goes like, what else? What's going on? And they're like, I don't know. And then they're like, what's going on with you? And I'm like,

Oh, nothing. I don't know. Yeah. I still don't know his last name. He hasn't told me anything. It's a secret. Yeah.

Um, well, thank you so much for being here and thanks so much to all of you for listening please remember to rate, review, subscribe go to blankiesiwrit.com for some real nerdy shit go to TeePublic for some real nerdy merchandise thanks to Ant for Gudo for our social media Lane Montgomery for our theme song Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds

for our artwork and as always Montgomery for our theme song. Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds for our artwork. And as always, be like Jack and Sally. Oh, gross.