Blank Check with Griffin & David - Dead Poets Society with Nia DaCosta

Episode Date: April 26, 2026

Boys and girls, please open your textbooks. Rip out the pages. Carpe Diem. We're seizing the day and talking about 1989's Dead Poets Society with filmmaker Nia DaCosta in this episode, but don't get too wild and change your name to Nuwanda or anything! This week, we discuss House MD, prep schools, the fact that David Sims played Puck in a high school production, and Robin Williams' Oscar legacy. O Podcast, my podcast! Read about Franny's weirder cut Check out Jack Black's YouTube Sign up for Check Book, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We don't listen to and record podcasts because it's cute. We listen to and record podcasts because we are members of the human race. And the human race is filled with passion and medicine, law, business, engineering. These are noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life. But podcast, beauty, romance, love, these are what we stay alive for. Huh. Ho, ho, ho. I did that as vocal warmups.

Now, look, there are... He's not really doing, huh. You know, he's not really doing that. No, but you still need to do it to get into the quiet. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it's, oh, but then when he does, like, the Brando impression, you're like, right, he needed just five minutes to just be silly guy. Let's just get straight into this, okay? Okay.

It is kind of astonishing. I know this has been much discussed. Okay. But it's the first time we've tackled any of the movies in this set, okay? That Robin Williams has four Oscar nominations. He wins his fourth, right? He wins the fourth time, yeah. Oh, I was saying his fourth Oscar, okay.

He won his fourth nomination for supporting actor. He had three best actor nominations. By the time he gets Goodwill Hunting, it's like, is he overdue, right? The three movies all where they didn't give him the award feel like, hey, wow, incredible. You have found a movie where you can use Robin Williams as a dramatic actor and yet still let him do his thing. So the first nomination, of course, was for Goodwill. Sorry. Good morning Vietnam.

which is he's at his most Robin Williamsy when he's on the microphone and all that, right? Right. So good morning Vietnam. Loses to Michael Douglas for Wall Street. Okay. Kind of a freight train. Yeah, I think so. This year he loses to...

Daniel Day Lewis for My Left Foot. Quite a good performance. And it's another freight train. He was never going to win because Tom Cruise was supposed to win. Right. And Day Lewis for Born on the Fourth of July. And Daniel Day Lewis kind of comes on late.

Fisher King. Fisher King is his third nomination. Loses to, huh, Anthony Hopkins, Silence the Lambs. that a good performance? I would argue. Is that one lodged in the culture? Yet another freight train. There was this feeling perhaps of like, oh, he keeps being up against Titans.

Obviously, Robin Williams is beloved. And he's just over time becoming only a bigger and bigger star. But I also think there was this feeling of, are we going to give him the Oscar when he's still kind of doing the Robin thing, right? Like, people were applauding the fact of like, oh, my God, he can like carry a drama and he can like carry these emotions and whatever. And yet all these movies, Good Morning Vietnam and Dead Poets of Society. are kind of ingeniously constructed

to tap into the emotional sensitive side of Robin Williams and surprise you and yet allow him to do fucking riffs. Like within the structure of him being an unconventional teacher and a radio host, he can just do 90 seconds of impressions in the middle of the movie.

Then Fisher King is like, what if he doesn't do the riffs? Right, he's sad. It's a dramatic version of the manic comedy energy. Sure. Whereas Good Morning Vietnam and Dead Poet Society

are like dramatic tenor Robin Williams who occasionally does comedy riffs. And so is Goodwell Hunting basically Gus Van Sant being just be sensitive and make us cry? Listen. Yeah. And it felt like they were like,

there we go. We just need to see that you could drop all of it. Yeah. I do think he was also overdue. And obviously that's a role where it's just, you know, monologues and speechifying and like you see, you know, making us cry and all that.

Who do you beat out? out there. He beat up Bert Reynolds. Was seen as maybe the odds on favor to win. For Buggy Nights. Who's great. But perfect combat. Yeah, no, we can't be doing all that.

Yeah. That's crazy. It's one of, it's a thing we're fascinated with. It's another example of someone like sweeps all the precursors and then you get to the Oscars and they lose. And it's like because too many people in this academy have worked with that person. Or their speeches. I love one.

You watch like an Oscar like race or tour or whatever. And all the speeches before are so insufferable that by the time they get to, they Oscars, it's just like, no, we're not doing it. There's absolutely that part of it. Yeah. But I think I always cite Eddie Murphy and Sylvester Stallone. Eddie Murphy would have been Dreamgirls. Yes. Yeah. He examples of like, they're winning everything until the big show. And the big show is a lot of people who are like, I fucking work with him. And he. And also them being like, we'll let you know that how you're all wrong. Right. Yeah. Right. This movie has a lot of quotable dialogue. Sure. What's that face? What's that face?

I don't like the screenplay for this movie at all. At all? I'm not a fan. Sorry. I remember in an episode. I think this is kind of like the not a very good movie that is just so handsomely made and well-acted that it kind of puts a spell on you a little bit. I don't like this movie that much fundamentally. Sorry, guys.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be a joke. David kind of coming in with like a Nia da Costa on the fog take. I know. I know. I was literally just thinking about that. I cannot tell a lie.

Yeah. David's fucking taken to slings on. I was really, you know, I'm still aware of how depressing that episode was for everyone. So, um, thank you so much, David for taking the mantle. Of course. I'd like to give a speech of any kind. Yeah. Do you want to accept this honor of being the bad guy?

I am I the bad guy? Am I just giving voice to some people who agree with me? I don't know. I don't, I, I can see where like in the structure of the screenplay, for example, it's a bit, Lucy Goosey, you're like, we're over here, we're over there. I had questions actually about the ending spoiler alert, like how earned... I would agree. What Dr. Wilson, where his story ends up.

Yes. Dr. Wilson, of Robert John Leonard. He will forever be Dr. Wilson. Unfortunately. But I think you're absolutely right in that it's so handsily made. Like I was thinking so much about how beautifully shot it was, how wonderfully acted it was. Because those scenes, like those two. or three scenes leading up to that, to him taking his own life, are so upsetting.

And so beautifully acted, like, his conversation with this father, his conversation. Kurtz Smith on fire. Whoa, Red. In full foot in your ass mode. That's true. It is so funny that, like, to our generation, he wants to put his foot in your ass. You watch that 70s show, and then you go back and you see, like, fucking robocop and Dead Poets society.

The scaryer Kurtwoods gets. And you're like, oh, it's weird to see, like, scary. read Foreman. Also, it's great casting then. You're like, oh, that makes some sense that you would cast. Yeah. Because to everyone, like, 10 plus years older than us, they're like, how funny is it that that guy ended up being a sitcom dad making fun of how intense he is?

No, it's, it's so, have you seen the rebit? No, no, but it's all him, right? It's him with, like, the grandkids. It's him and the grandkids, yeah. I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's always that weird, uncanny valley of like a modern three camera, like multi-camera. Yes. But he's just, I just love him so much.

Sorry, you were about to say, handsomely made, earned those scenes. I feel like, yeah, Nia's. Well, Nia was possibly, like, inching towards the vaguest agreement with sort of my sense. What I'm not going to do is go back to the fog. Absolutely. I love this movie. It made me cry. I took lots of notes and realized so much of my life is sort of, I went to New England boarding school for five years.

So I was like, I know these people. Right, right, right, right. You had this sort of experience. I mean, not in the 50s. Your Wikipedia, famously, the most reliable resource. Yeah. Says that you originally intended to be a poet? Oh, my gosh.

Is that based on a truth? Yeah, when I was six. Okay. Her original aspiration was to be a poet. No citation. No citation. And when you were 16, apparently, this must be from an interviewer game or something. You took an AP English class and you read Heart of Darkness and that led you to Apocalypse

now and that led you to cinema? Well, what led me to cinema was my first. parents' divorce and becoming a latchkey kid. Sure. It's all this is good. And watching HBO for hours during the summer and being like,

I don't know what's going on in full metal jacket, but I want to keep watching it. We sent you, let me, first off, let me just say, must be very clear. This is blank check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David.

A little slow. I was looking at this Wikipedia page. It's a podcast about themographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear. And sometimes they bounce baby, my captain. Mm-hmm. To the earlier point, I was setting up the other crazy thing about those four Robin Williams movies,

I cite is all four of them were huge motherfucking hits. That this guy was such a star at an era where the fucking Hollywood system still, worked where his cloud as a comedian could make a drama a blockbuster. This movie made $240 million worldwide in 1989. This was a huge hit. Fisher King, I would say, is the one of the four. Fisher King was a hit.

It was not a hit on the same world. 40. Like, Fisher King was just kind of like a made-its budget back movie. Fisher King's worldwide was 40? That's a great. That's great for Terry Gillian. We're upset with the God. The other three were huge. I think it's no, okay, let's see. See, this is what I'm saying.

It's domestic was 40. There we go. And it's worldwide was 70. Totally fine. Totally fine. But like the other three were genuine. Good morning, Vietnam. This.

100 million dollars. Obviously Google hunting was a big hit. I mean, you know what else was a big hit was freaking Aladdin and, you know, Mrs. Doubtfire. I'm just saying this guy. Why was the birdcage? Birdcage was a huge hit. A huge hit. His 90s made a ton of money.

We're going to talk about this. His 90s were incredible until it fell off a cliff. Basically right after he wins the Oscar. Well, he started, I mean, God bless him, he started making really bad movies. Like, I mean, he, I don't know. What was the first bad one? I mean, I think Griffin's right that it's sort of like, uh, after the Oscar. He starts to pick out these projects that are so treakly.

Jacob the Liar. Well, What Dreams May Come? Patch Adams, Jacob the Liar, Bicentennial Man. So it's like these movies that are all, like, big, expensive movies that he will be the star of. Patch Adams is a giant hit. It is. So Patch Adams is also immediately reviled. Like, it being a hit made people hate it more.

I feel like actors do this a lot, though, where they are like, now I'm a lead. And it's like, well, sometimes that supporting part is the best part of the movie. Poet Society's great exactly. He's on screen for 30 minutes. Stop. He's that a best actor nomination. He's above the title. He's Robin Williams.

He's, and he's sort of the lead. It's an ensemble, I guess. There's no real. Yeah, because not even Robert Chun Leonard or Ethan Hawker really. Like it's like there's not even a lead kid. I see Robert Sean Leonard. Sort of. But I looked up.

There's the one account that does the fucking stop watching. Yeah. And it's 33 minutes out of two hours and eight minutes. Let me just finish the intro because we're obviously getting deep into the weeds here. So, a main series on the films of Peter Weir is called Podneck at Hanging Cast. Today we're talking about dead poet society. We are the dead podcaster society.

Sure. Pod K cast him. Okay. Producer Ben has shown off. Yeah, he's outfitted. He's fitting the dress code for the first. time. We've always recommended a dress code here on blank check that we fail to abide by. But Ben has shown up in his finest morning school wears.

Yeah, wearing a striped tie. I have a nice brown sports jacket on, some loafers. Yes. I guess the only thing I'm wearing denim that wouldn't be allowed at a prep school. You have your glasses on. At my school, you got to wear, well, my first boarding school, every other Saturday we had a class for half day, which obviously is a, is a terrorism. That's actually the worst thing I've ever heard in my life. I know, it's terrible.

And then, but we got to wear jeans. Oh, yes. Yes, you got to it. Right, sure, sure. I had to wear a uniform, which is so common in Britain, private school, public school. Like, it's like, I think it's still kind of the norm for so many schools. I've, uh, say Anne's, was it recommended that you should really like just wear like whatever household objects. I have shared this before, but in my freshman year at St. Anne's, though.

horrible school I went to. Where's St. Ants? Brooklyn Heights. Prep school? It's like a fancy school with the fanciest fucking water energy. Yeah, kind of.

I mean, like it was once back in the, it was founded as we're going to be alternative. It was founded as what if you build a whole school out of John Keatings? Right. But also maybe half those John Keatings were sexual predators.

Well, that's what we all find out later. Yeah. But now it's just a very fancy school. There's lots of rich people. Well, Brooklyn, we want to send their kids to fancy privacy. I, as some weird meta-conceptual bit, being the most annoying, precocious child at the worst school, in freshman year, wore my own version of a school uniform for months.

That was my big act of rebellion of, like, you're all so fucking rebellious. I'm going to dress like I'm part of the fuck. Your sheep. There was. Ben Griffin. So I did kind of dress the way Ben's dressed today. Ben doesn't look impressed. No.

Our guest today, returning to the show For the fourth time. Fourth appearance? Yes. Niadicosta. Hello. We are recording this very far in advance because you're a very, very busy.

You're around and you've got a couple movies in the can. We've recorded with directors who were like, oh, and by the time this episode comes out, your movie will have come out. You were the first person where we're recording at a point whereby the time the episode comes out, two films will have come out. That's crazy, yeah, yeah.

When does Hedda come out? Director of Hedda and 28 days later, colon the Bone Temple. Yeah, I like to go 28 years later. Excuse me, sorry. Part 2, the Bone Temple, and then ask everyone, where does the colon go? These are the questions. I noticed the most, the new trailer that just came out at the time of recording this didn't have the part 2. It doesn't.

I just like to add it. Okay. We went to see the film. Heda. I'm sorry. Well, we saw Heda, but also when Ben and I saw 28. years later. At the end, the lights come up, right? After there's the big, the jimmies. Uh-huh. This crazy ending. And Ben turns to me and he goes, I like how random

that ending was, but part of me just wishes I could watch an entire movie of that. And I said, Ben, do I have great news for you? It's already in the can. It's directed by our friend, and it's subtitled the Bone Temple. And it was like his eyes turned into like three sevens. My eyes started turning into like a slot machine and it just landed on bones. You're talking flop out of your mouth. Yeah, exactly. Yes. I will say tonally, my film is quite different from the energy of that scene.

But yeah, the jimmies are a focal point in the film and they're just... Is the bone temple going to be okay? I understand you probably can't answer this question. By the time this episode comes out, we will have recorded an episode on us having seen the film. I'm like, they're going to fuck up all this bone. Yeah, let's keep the bombs on town. It is okay in the end. Okay, great.

Yeah. Thank God. That's actually great news. I'm actually buoyed by that. That's great. Yeah. We saw Heda, though. Oh, thank you for going.

Thank you so much. Which I love. Oh, thank God. Which sucks. Yeah, no, no, no, it's actually awesome. I really, I really loved it. I did ask her dad? I said, did Griffin lag it?

You met my dad as well. Yeah, which was amazing. Yes. My dad also loved it. Let's talk about the dead poet society. Come on guys. Okay. Okay, so you go to boarding school.

Yeah, I went to boarding school. Does this happen after your parents' divorce? Where is this in the timeline? I want to put all this together. My parents got divorced when I was nine. Okay. And I know it was very disrespectful, but thank God they did. Fair enough, yes, you're right.

It was like, it was the right thing. I went to point school for eighth through 12th grade. Okay. But I was in private school and I was younger and then public school for a bit right after my parents' divorce. And my mother's huge in education. And she was like, we're not doing this anymore. She was like, you know, like in New York City, you have to go to the school where you're living. Yes.

And so the first thing we tried was she gave her office address so I can go to a better school downtown. Okay. And like day one, they were like, can we have Nia Dacosta come to the principal's office, please? Fucking. They were like, get out. Oh, they rumbled you. Yeah, they did. But then I ended up going to Robert Wagner on the Upper East Side.

Okay. And then when it came time to leave. Because you grew up in Harlem? Yeah, more or less, yeah. Yeah, it was born Brooklyn, mostly in Harlem, had a stint in Korea. East or West. Okay. I was like kind of like near 145th ABCD station, yeah.

You see the thing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And we might, I think seventh and sixth and seventh grade, my mom was like, you know, we can do better. And so we started looking at private schools. I almost went to Spence. Wow. Which would have been, I think I would have been a shell of a person.

I don't. These, you know, upper cross, upper upper cross places, I can't imagine what the kids are like. No, I know some Spence girls and they're like, you escaped. Spence has some dead poet society energy I'm sure sure I met a girl who went to one of those schools I don't think it was It might have been

Nightingale Baffirte Yeah And like I was like Oh I grew up in New York Like you know I said something about how I always Love taking the subway as a kid Because I did This came up

Sure And she was like yeah I never took the subway Until I was a grown up And I was just I was like And you went to school like Yeah Fucking you know Across the park from where I grew

And like you never ever It was like a whole other life How old were you for your first subway ride? Yeah. A baby, I imagine. I don't know. Solo, solo. Oh, that's a good question.

You know, I started, well, I moved to London by then. Yeah. But I started taking myself to school when I was 10. Yeah. And my guess would be that would be like when I was first. Yeah, mine was nine. See, my thing was, right, 9-11 happens when I'm 12. I feel like I had just started to get independent subway rights.

and then I got knocked back. Then there was a year my parents being like, the subway is going to be blown up. You cannot get on it. My parents are weirdly fucking not subway riders. What neighborhood did you grow up in? I grew up in the West Village, but they're just crazy people.

My dad would fucking, like, with Lisa Carr and drive it everywhere and just be upset all the time. That's what I'm talking about. But you lived in New York for decades. So I had to, like, come by my love of a subway. Yeah, on your own time. Not that they didn't take me on.

it, but it was not there. Yeah. Ben, you want to Yeah, I just wanted to share, I actually went to an unprep school. Oh. Where are you from, Ben? You were on Jersey.

Oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. They wanted you not prepared for anything. So it was an unpreparedatory school. Yeah, good. That I left and I didn't know what the fuck I was going to do. It is so rude that prep schools, I didn't, you know, like, I never went to a prep school,

but they're like, we're prep schools. The backhanded implications. Are schools not generally? Unlike some of these. It's the Faresley difference. Why do you get to be the prep? We always have apples. I never thought about that.

Anyway, I assume it's probably rooted in some, you know, awful thing of Victorian person said. Absolutely. A problem with something dark. But were you in, like, what part, what kind of Jersey were you in? So just an hour outside of the city. My city, this city. Yeah, correct. In my city.

Sorry, I was just like, I just started thinking about Jersey cities. So extremely suburban. Yeah, like kind of near Patterson, that area. Okay, okay, yeah. It was a small area only a couple bone temples. Not like a major hub. What boarding school did you end up going to? I went to the Rumsey Hall School in Connecticut.

Okay. And then I went to the master school in Westchester. You... That's an intense name for a school. The master school? Yeah. It used to be all girls. Elizabeth Masters was the founder of the school.

There we go. It wasn't like we're going to be masters of the universe. Or it wasn't like big Paul Thomas Anderson fans or they were just like... No, thank God. Founded in 2013. sand hand jobs. Actually, probably high school students after all.

I'm sure a sand a hand job or two. I'm not. I'm not. I know. That's absolutely. In the math resource center. No, because we,

knowing you had like a back-to-back press tours coming up and we're going to be in town now. You gave you like the schedule for the whole first six months of 26. And you threw it a couple, but we were immediately like, Dead Poets is interesting, not knowing the level of connections. Well, that was what was so crazy because I literally,

And I guess we can talk about them to me now. But I literally, when I got to the yop scene, I was like, oh my God, Mr. Ketchum made us go outside and yop. I was like, and I'm like, what is this word you are using? Yop. Right. The thing he makes Ethan Hawking. Yeah, right, right, right. A primal yop.

But Mr. Ketchum was, you're Mr. Keaton. Absolutely. Ash Ketchum. You taught you how to rear Pokemon. He taught me out of rear Pokemon. He taught me out of both the Nia and the Griffin in this episode. But he was amazing. And my, when I started, I think we were in, there's an eighth grade,

in the equivalent of whatever aping should be for an eighth grader. But we were reading like Faulkner and Walt Whitman and E. Cummings and William Carlos Williams. And now I look back on it, I'm like, oh, of course we're yopping. Like Arbor Bark, yopping, you know, whatever. It's like, so I was like, oh, he's clearly watched this movie and he's obsessed. When did you see it? the first time? Yeah.

Well, it was on TV a lot, wasn't it? Yeah. I saw it on TV in high school. Absolutely. I never, I had the same experience of sound of music where it's so long because of the commercials that you never get to the Nazis. I never got to the suicide. And so I rewatched it a couple of years ago. And I was like, no.

It's like, what's happening? It's fair. It was so crazy. Yeah. Because I feel like, right. Everyone's like, yeah, but he gets fired and they all get on their desks, right? Yeah, like, I mean, that's sort of whatever. references with the Poet Society.

I saw this film when I was like 12 or 13 years old. I rented it with my friend Saba and she loved Ethan Hawk. And she was like going through Ethan Hawk phase. And she was like, I want to rent this movie from like, it was back in the day when you still would be like we're going to go to the video store and rent a movie.

And I was like, yeah, I've never seen that movie. I know that. That's like a good movie, right? And I watched it with her and I thought it was okay. And we both cried and I never saw it again. am. And then I watched it today, or not, you know, the other couple days ago. And I was kind of impressed by how, obviously, it's a culturally significant, like, it's in the air. Yeah. But I was like, damn, I remember, like, almost all of this. I haven't seen it in like 25 years. Yes. And it made me cry. When they said, oh, captain, my captain. And I was kind of like, this is bullshit. Because, like,

I don't even like this movie that much. I'm a pretty easy cry. But I'm like, I know they're gonna do it. I'm not exactly like getting caught off guard by O'Captain my captain. It's like kind of a magic trick movie in that sense where you're just like you can't not get hit by that. It did work me up. I cried a couple of times watching it. And I have kids now.

There's things that this, their buttons this movie. You yell at your children every day that they got to be doctors. Yelling at twin babies. She's such a weird complex. Never do a play. You can't be an amateur actor in any sense. Also, just like, I'm sorry.

If your son is Robert Sean Leonard, you're not changing that path. He has the most fucking theater-actory face. No one has ever looked more like an actor and had the demeanor of an actor, the Robert Chan Leonard. Doesn't the acting thing come so late in the game? Pretty late. Because I was like, did I miss him mentioning liking acting before he was like, it's my passion in life. No, it like finds him like halfway through.

Right. And then he's immediately in the play. Yeah. He's sort of like, it feels like he auditions without having told you or anyone that it's a thing he's ever had desire for and he immediately is like, which, you know, there are certain, there is a type of actor who is like that. Who's just like, yeah, my friend asked me to like be in their short film. Now I'm actually thinking I might like start auditioning and stuff.

Maybe I want to do this. I saw it in high school. Yeah. Similar to you, like high school was just like cable movie channels all the time. I'm like checklist obsessive. I need to watch all the movies. And anything like this that was referenced so much that I knew had a. Oscar nominations.

It's like that's stuff you have to cross off the list, right? Hadn't seen it since then. David, I feel like at some point the last year or two of the podcast, it maybe came up in a box office game. It certainly did because the box office game will be playing is a movie we'll cover before, I think. And you said like, does dead poet society suck? And I was a little surprised by that take, knowing that you love Peter Weir and this is the big movie series. And honestly, I love Robin Williams. You've been beating the drum for it for so long.

And I love private preparatory education single set. That's how I think it should be done. Always. Not having seen this movie in 20 years, I was like, huh, that the tech kind of sounds right. I could buy that. Yeah, sure. If I watch that now, am I going to roll my eyes at all of this, right? And then I watched the last night and I was like, I think this thing totally works.

Yeah. I do not think it is one of Weir's best films. And I agree with you that it's like what works is, I think, the decision and the control and the taste that he applies to it. But I also, like, I think this script works. I think it is like... No, I agree with that that it works. It's a well...

Yes, yes. It's a machine, like that it does what it's supposed to do. I was very ready for, in my mind's eye, not having sense since I was a teenager, being like, I'm going to be more cynical about this now. I'm going to have my bullshit meter up really high for, like, manipulation, you know? And I think this sort of... script is like pretty controlled. Now we'll talk about it. The guy had one of the most insane

post-Oscar careers that we've discussed before. Peter Ware? No, not Peter Weir, the screenwriter, who wins the Oscar for this. Tom Schulman. This was, wasn't this his first? You know, exactly. And he goes on. It's a semi-autobiographical script that he's about a teacher who inspired him, yada, yada, yada. Right. He gets put on Honey I Shrunk the Kids. His job is to make it a comedy. Is that right? Yes. It was like a late rewrite thing. From the Stuart Gordon version, which I think was more Or sci-fi, which of course he wanted to call Tiniweeney's. And then it's like a bunch of big scripts. Well, two. What about Bob?

Yeah. Which is, you know, it's a bad movie. It's a fun movie. It's kind of a hit. And medicine man, George Miller's medicine man. Sorry, John McTernan's Medicine Man. Right. That's why we talked about it. A horrendous.

A horrendous movie. I'm like, who the fuck wrote this movie? Did I watch it? Yeah, go ahead. You know what? You kind of should watch it. I should watch all Don McTernan's, yeah. You should.

Yeah. Yeah. Then he wrote and directed the film Eight Heads in a Duffel bag. A big, Ming, Ming, Ming, Ming. A Ben-Feschi comedy. Have you ever seen it? No. It's pretty fun.

I should watch all the Joe Pachis. There's, like, eight heads in a duffel bag. Tell me more. And so basically... It gets lost or something? I watched it. It gets lost. Joe Pesci plays a hitman.

You know, I'll hold my questions a little until after I observed the film. His last... Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, you shouldn't hold your question. His last... Oh, no, no. Jesus, then it's Holy Man, the Eddie Murphy. Which I watched for the first time recently, and it's one of the most insane films I've ever.

Wait, is that the, no, I'm thinking of Golden Child, never mind. Yeah, Golden Child's all right. I enjoy that. Holy Man, Stakeslis. The Man is, like, almost impossible to describe. But it, like, feels like trying to make a dead poet society for Eddie Murphy. It is weirdly, like, more of a drama and also, much like Dead Poet Society, Eddie Murphy is maybe only in 30 minutes of the movie, and Jeff Goldblum is actually the lead.

Right. But the premise is that Eddie Murphy is like a weird spiritual guru they find on the side of the road who may be magical or is like a lunatic, someone with like mental illness and amnesia. I think I've seen this. And Jeff Goldblum is an exec who works for a cable shopping channel. Who like makes him a sort of TV stuff. And he puts him on the air and it almost becomes like a network thing where he like goes on these long rants like anti-consumerous rant. But it makes the sales go up. So he's commodifying this.

It's an insane, insane movie. Is that, do you think that was an inspiration for, um, one million merits? Absolutely. Good. I love one million merits. Oh, well. Um, welcome to Mooseport is, uh, his final base, basically his final credit recently and is not a very good movie. Uh, the, which is Gene Hackman's final film.

That guy just starts his career with like a fucking seismic, he wins the Oscar for an original screenplay. And then you're just like, that happens not infrequently. Absolutely. It's so interesting. Yeah. David. What's the matter? I'm going to share for you a horrifying tale,

a tale of woe and suffering. Whoa, this is scary. It's a tale of human error, a failing on my part. Tell me. We went to the Wisconsin Film Festival. Sure. Visited our dear researcher,

JJ Birch. I'm scared already. Participated in a screening. We dined out. We had fried cheese curds. We drank Wisconsin beer. What was the mistake? Tell me.

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Do you want me to open the dossier? Why not? Yes, okay. So Tom Schulman was disheartened, I guess, the early arc of his career, trying to be a Hollywood screenwriter. He was writing stuff, like probably trying to get stuff sold, right? You know, he was just writing genre stuff and comedies and whatever. and he writes dead poets

not thinking of it as a commercial script but more calling card writing sample paying homage to this teacher he had he said a very volcanic teacher who talked about theater and acting and movies and we'd all go out to drinks and you know he imbued me and my

not him and the teacher I think him and the other students but they were all like you know fired up by this teacher that's like that classic story of like someone's trying to break through in Hollywood no one will open the door for them and then, you know, someone gives them the advice of just like, write the movie that only you can write. What's the personal story that only you have? Yeah. That's the thing.

Right. So he's got all this nostalgia. He went to Montgomery Bell Academy in Nashville, Tennessee. Okay. And he also, I guess, had a stern dad who didn't want him to, you know, be a Hollywood dream or whatever. Didn't want him to be in Hollywood. Right.

No son of mine will ever put heads in a duffel bag. The real teacher's name is Samuel F. Pickering Jr. And much like the character in Deb Poet Society, he was an alum who had returned as a teacher. And much like DeBot Society, he left pretty quickly. I'm not sure if he got fired or anything, but he moved on and then he ends up at the University of Connecticut. He becomes a bit of a minor celebrity after this movie comes out, obviously, because he's the real Dead Poet Society guy. Shulman decides to set the film in the 50s, even though he, this, I think, had more of this experience in the the 60s he'd been born in the 50th in 1950 i do think this movie is has no sense of when it's set

i agree and it sort of gets away with it because boarding schools are weird and hermetic and like trapped in time or whatever but i i'm like i think it's hoberman's review i was reading old reviews of it and hoberman was like this movie set in the 50s like there's no like sense of that like there's no you know like i'm truly wondering if i clocked it right until you're saying that right I would say, I think a third or two thirds into the film someone mentions it's 1950 something and I was like, oh, of course, yeah, that makes sense. Or maybe I wiki it actually. First, he writes it more about the teacher.

He returns to the script, he revised it, makes it more about the students, you know, which, there you go. And he thinks about Neil as the sort of student that goes too far, I guess, is sort of whatever. I mean. Too far doing that? I don't know. Getting too into acting. I mean, this script is so... JJ. This interview is making me feel justified. No, no, no. Carry on. Carry on. No, but I mean, but I totally got that, but I think it's like, I was thinking about the holdovers when I was watching it. Yes. And I think that feeling of the script being a bit like, what's happening? Why does this matter?

And like the fact that all the boys have these completely different sort of needs and things that they do because they're inspired. and one of them is kissing a girl while she's sleeping, which is very distressing. It is the element of this movie. Josh Charles being a creep. It does make you kind of tip your head and go like. I was like, what's happening? That's inspirational. Yeah.

I have to do it. I'm so sorry. I had to. This is so distressing. But it is sort of, it just, but it feels very like, it's like vibes, you know? Yes. It's like, we're in this place, man. It certainly has like a very kind of comforting autumnal feeling.

Exactly. And also this sort of, I know this movie is 89, but it feels like it's starting to synthesize the look that I feel like becomes the dominant 90s prestige drama look. Yeah. Yes. This kind of buttery golden color. Absolutely. I mean, and in this movie, again, it's got a great director. It's got an incredible John Seal, incredible DP.

Like, but anyway, he's taking the script around. Nothing's really happening. He's not getting any traction. And, uh, and then as, At some point, Jeffrey Katzenberg at Disney calls and it's basically like, I hear someone wants this script. I want it. Now. You know, in class.

And he was basically like $4 million. Like, give it to me immediately. Jesus. Yeah, right. You know, and... It basically became a one person bidding war. I guess so. Yeah.

The way he puts it is everyone else had passed on the script and not really read it. Jeffrey had actually read it. Mm-hmm. And he had someone who's gone to private school. He had whatever. It resonated with him or whatever And he just got super excited This is also fairly early Touchstone

Which was such a big project for Eisner and Katzenberg And a lot of their thing in trying to find Like what are the grown-up movies that Disney makes Through this offshoot was like Find Good Vehicles for Depreciated Stars That was a lot of their strategy was like Richard Dreyfus, Bet Midler, you know? Like making splash, you know?

Like what are the scripts that everyone else in town is passing on that we can make with someone who has name value but has a couple flops in a row. So you can get them for cheaper? It's like they'll be more interested in doing something of it. Yeah, yeah. But you could see this script being a good vehicle for that kind of thing

of like you got this big showy teacher role that you could get a former A-lister to do without having to work that many years. Was Robin in that space in his career though at the time? Well, so let's get to that. He was hotter. Yeah, he's, okay, but they bring a board Jeff Knew, of course. The director of

Revenge of the Nerds to direct this film. Katzenberg is so hot on this movie that they cannot find a star. And Katzenberg's like, don't worry about it. We'll find the star. Start scouting locations. Get ready. And so they're all set to go. And then Disney finally is like, kill this project. There's no star. Like, what are you fucking doing?

Yeah. And they all get someone to the office. And Katzenberg is like sort of monologuing about what a great job they did in Knew says, let's get on with it. I feel like I'm having my back rubbed until I die. And Katzberg is like, okay, we're firing you. Sorry. No, JJ, who is not fired because he did his job correctly on this one, had alerted us a couple weeks ago. There was a crazy sentence on the Wikipedia and I need to research it. And what David just read is the actual researched answer to what happened. The way the Wikipedia recounts it, which is insane. Yeah.

is that they hired Jeff Kanoe then hired Robin Williams, but Robin Williams didn't want to do the movie with him. So he signed on and refused to show up to filming during the first day of shooting. So until they fired him and then they burned the sets down. That's what I read. And I was like, that's what I thought you were going to say. No, citation. I don't think that's what happened.

No, it's not what happened. What you just read happened. Jeff Kanoo is fired from. Williams had been considered, but he'd never gotten attached. He's expensive. He's a big star. It was more like that it was someone like that they'd circle I just don't even know how that Wikipedia story comes about

It's very bizarre So then it gets shopped around At a certain point They are told that Knew can still direct it If they can get Alec Baldwin or Liam Neeson Which is crazy Neeson is crazy because he's not that famous Has he done? Did he do that Julie Foster movie yet?

He must have, no No, that's later That's like early 90s like It's an odd choice I mean he would be good He would boys. When did Tick and come out? I'm kidding.

Rip out those fucking pages. I miss, you know, actor. I did, do. A very particular set of poems. And then occasionally you get it with silence or whatever. Have you seen Naked Gun? No, I need to. It rules.

But the thing it gets so right is how funny it is to have him say anything with that level of intensity. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And they use both, like, taken intensity Nieson, but also like Schindler's List Intensity Nieson, where it's like, give him a fucking paragraph monologue of the dumbest shit in the world and just tell Nissen to play it. Yeah.

Like it's the most important thing ever. That's like Andre Brower and Brooklyn 9-9. It's exactly like that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All this doesn't work out. The rights are ripped back to Disney and about a year after, Katzenberg is like Dustin Hoffman.

How about that? I just saw him. You just saw Dustin Hoffman? Yeah. At Megalopoulos? Who's going like this? I still haven't seen it. I bought it.

and I'm like, I can't wait to watch. And I just haven't brought me to it. But yeah, I saw him. And I think Tesla had a moment where she's trying to like, they're trying to hug each other. And then they tried to, um, she tried to like lift him. It was like very, he's very small. He's very old and small.

Yeah. Um, but I was like, Dustin. Anyway, continue. Uh, he wanted to direct it. Yes. And starring it. Which sounds complicated. I agree.

Um, he's got a bit of a reputation even at this time for being kind of, kind of wishy-wash, you know, like he'll get involved in a project, he'll get really nitpicky and perfectionisty about it, and then he'll drop out. Well, he actually only makes three movies in the 80s? Am I correct about that? I feel like the 80s for him are Ishtar... It starts to get out of control. And Rain Man.

Really? He, like, slows way the fuck down, partly because he, like, freaks out over the failure of Ishtar, and partly because he becomes so controlling that he kind of boxes himself out. I think he's legendarily controlling at that point I'm going to give you the full list of movies he made in the 80s, sorry. Because like his 60s and 70s are obviously

him like that. It's Tutsi and Echthor and Raymond and family business at 1989 right at the end there. So it's four. And then there is also the death of a salesman that he does first on stage and then T-Ber.

Sure, sure, sure. Which is very bad. Yes. And, you know, Hoffman is going crazy. Now, a big thing in the original script is the Keating is dying of cancer. Insane.

Yeah, yeah. And Hoffman's like, I'm going to lose all this weight to like portray the, you know, portray this. Thank God they cut that out of the movie. Or, I mean, whatever, yes. That's like, and I'm happy. Or if you're going to have that, you also can't have a kid committing suicide. It's too much. Yeah.

Darkness. I assume that was a Peter Weir, judgment call. I don't know. But anyway, he's going crazy, basically, with his autortdom, but then he drops out. And they go back to Robin Williams. Robin Williams has obviously made Good Morning Vietnam, which was a hit, but then since then he's had a couple flops. He hasn't really done anything. Well, so Good Morning Vietnam is 86.

87. Yeah, he hasn't really done anything. This is saying he has flops, but he has nothing. It's just... Maybe it's in his personal life. Is JJ fired? Well, it's a quote from somebody, but anyway. I feel like he has a run of flops leading into Good Morning Vietnam. Yeah, exactly.

Oscar on the Hudson, Best of Times, Club Paradise, Seas the Day, all these kind of nothing movies. Never heard of any of this one? It is crazy that he made a movie called Seas the Day. Yes. Based on the Saul Bello book. Right. A pretty limp film and like his first attempt at doing this kind of drama. Peter Weir has Green Card, which is a movie he wrote.

He's been trying to make it. It just got delayed for a year for whatever reason. Katzenberg calls him up and is like, hey, what are you doing? And he's like, I'm fucking waiting on this green card thing and I'm going to the supermarket. That's the quote. Peter Weir, Caves. And was Green Card Miramax? I don't know.

Okay, I'm sorry. We'll talk about. Merrimx doesn't even exist then. What? It's 1989. Who releases Green Card? Green Card was, of course, released by Disney. Touchstone.

There we go. And so Katzenberg's like, well, you want to make a movie? Like, I got a movie. Yeah. And Katzenberg had worked with him on witness and his, like, sends him the script. Peter Weir's like, oh, it's about a school. I don't care about that. But then he reads the script and he's like, I like, I like, yeah, right.

Right. Then he says. this cancer reveal sucks. There we go. Get this out of the script. I mean, emblematic of Peter Weir's value on this movie where you're like, this is a film of tremendous judgment and good taste, right? Right.

Like, his skill as a director in this film is largely invisible in terms of the craft. It's very unshoey. But, like, I think the things that, like, you're slightly allergic to in this movie, I watch and I'm like, I am so impressed he stays just on the right side of these things. Right. Because almost anyone else. making this movie would probably make me vomit. And just knowing that it was supposed to have suicide end cancer is a perfect.

Right. Yeah. Look, Tom Schulman is like, this is my script. This is the ending. You want me to take this out? Are you crazy? Peter Weir is just like, look, you don't have to, but I'm not going to make the movie. Right.

Like, in it. Like, so it's like me or the, you know, this plot twist. And Robin Williams. That you don't know he's been done. I mean, I don't. It's the third act thing. And then Robin Williams comes aboard and Peter Weir says to him, like, by the way, were losing the cancer thing and Robin was like, oh, good. Like, I don't like that.

And so Peter Weir went to private school as well, the Scots College in Sydney. He said it was an ironbound school. I was a terrible student. I, you know, so I did relate to that. And I did have a poetry lecture on William Blake where the teacher, like, you know, woke me up and, like, you know, excited me about that. And so I kind of tried to put that into the movie. So, you know, he relates to it, But it is a little bit of a higher job for Peter. Yeah. Right. Like he is coming aboard pretty late.

Ethan Hawke, who he obviously works with on this movie, gave his interview like a year or two ago where he basically announced Peter Weir's retirement and it got a lot of headlines. Is it? He was doing probably some film festival retrospective talk or whatever and they asked him about working with different director. Where's Peter Weir? Why has he made stuff?

And he's like, he's basically retired. And then that headline carried over. Right. He's just like he just was kind of worn down. by the industry. Yeah. But he had this line I think about a lot and that I probably will bring up many, many times across the series where he's just like he was this really rare thing in that he was a

popular artist. Yeah. And just the succinctness of defining him that way where you're like, this was a guy who mostly worked within the studio system. Yeah. With major A-list stars. Yeah. And made like intelligent mainstream movies.

Yeah. He was like with actual art and craft making movies for grownups that were commercial plays. Yeah. Right. It's like Brian Cougler vibes. Like, but, you know. Yeah, but like weirdly, in a certain way,

he starts out making these personal films that are so much about like Australia and its legacy and whatever. And then he becomes this like very emotionally invested director for hire in a bizarre way. But I think, I think, you know, we're so invested in like the autore story. Yeah.

But like directing, like, I don't know. It's like, it's a job, you know? And I think when people, someone like him, It's like he's just good at the job. That's the thing. And can be, like there's just some, oh my God, I'm blanking. Help. Send help.

Who? Mad Max. George Miller. Yes. George Miller, he said, which I thought, hello. He said, you have to, so much of directing as learning when to be passionate and dispassionate. Yeah. And I'm like, that's so true.

And I think that's how you are. Because if you're passionate all the time, you will just lose it. Burn yourself into slithers. And you'll be Dustin Hoffman and you're like, why am I losing all this weight? to his movie. Coogler's magic to me is that like he cannot make a film

that isn't somehow him making the most personal statement he can at that time and yet he is able to make it in a way that connects to everybody which is kind of like

a Spielberg magic. Exactly. He calls himself a populist filmmaker. Right. Cochler's very clear about that. That's just the language he works in.

Yeah. Peter Weir like has this sort of like not bifurcation in his career but there's definitely the shift where so much of his value comes from A list fucking leading men

love him, respect him, trust him. Yeah. And he becomes this director for hire in a certain way, but none of them feel like dispassionate jobs, you know? But it's like, this is an era where you still could have that level of clout because you're like, hey, Robin Williams wants to work with him. Harrison Ford wants to work with him. Mel Gibson wants to work with him.

Russell Crowe wants to work with him. Jim Carrey wants to work with them. These guys are fucking turnkeys. And if this is the director they want, they get to make whatever fucking movie they want. Yeah. And this isn't treated as, well, this is Robin's little weird indie project. No, this is a big studio movie. Yeah.

All right. So when they're making it, you guys might be shocked to learn. Robin Williams kind of like to sort of be a little goofy and funny when he was doing his teaching scene and stuff. Kind of like, go into comedy mode. You do one take is written. And then the second take, well. So Peter Weir had to put the brakes on that.

Sure. And said, like, look, the guy's not an entertainer. Like, that's not what this character is. Like he's not the funny teacher exactly. Like he's, he makes jokes and he smiles, you know, and wanly. Another example of good judgment. I think Peter Weir used just enough of the Robin stuff. A thousand percent.

It's like these sorts of, like watching the movie and watching Robin, like, he has such deep, like, sadness in him. He does, which is the magic of Robin Williams. Exactly. And for him to use, and his deep empathy and it's just like for him to use that. To not be able to go to the comedy completely to be the shield for all of that. Which he does it again with Jim Carrey and Truman Show. We'll talk about that a lot, but there's so many interesting stories he tells about the process. He's really good at, and even Witnesses is a version of this where, like, there's made such good movies.

But that's a Harrison Ford movie star movie where he's playing a cop and where he's, like, really drilling down into, like, there's like a sadness in you that other people kind of like. Haven't been. Well, it's also because Harrison Ford's making that movie. movie like after three, you know, Star Wars and two Indiana Jones. And like, it's like, yeah, play a guy. Right. You're going to play a guy now. I think he's really...

But this is like why these guys wanted to work with him is he was really good at like taking someone with a movie star persona and all that beat and being like, who's the real guy at the center of this? Yeah. And you can trust me with that guy. Right. I'm pulling something honest from deeper within you. Yeah.

So, uh, Robin Williams, yes. Classically, yes. He would make you do one serious, then one silly. and one, whatever. They did have a half day. They just let him go nuts, unscheduled, kind of didn't tell Disney about it.

That's where the Brando and John Wayne stuff comes from. Sure. A real... And Ethan Hawk recently say how much he just hated him because he was so not serious. But Ethan Hawk is so overly serious

so I could say that. Ethan Hawk, I think, also is very upfront about how fucking serious he was then. Yeah. Like maybe he's a little more retrospective now, but like that he was so up his own as this young actor.

That he didn't get it. That it was like, why isn't this guy treating this like the most important thing that is ever about it? I think all these young actors like Josh Charles and him and, you know, like they're,

he talks about it. Like they were in that pool of young actors in the early 90s along with like Damon and Brendan Frazier and all those guys who were like coming up for all these roles at the same time. There was a really intense crop of Yonnell, white brunette.

White? Wait, what? But all of these guests, the school ties group and the dead poets group, all these people who were overlapping. It is funny, Hawk's casting here, and obviously he was kind of like the most experienced of all the actors because he had been... Yeah, he's in that child star... The rest of them were pretty much the first big film, yeah.

Yeah. He's like playing the least hockey of the kids. Yeah, that's so true. Like, Hawk is the ultimate, like, man, you got to go out and learn and take your experiences. He's not the later, you're right. He's not Richard Linklater's Ethan Hawk or Reality Bites Ethan Hawk or whatever. Like Hawks persona as a person now is like forever student, right? That like every interview with him is just, man, I get so excited you go to museum and you see a painting and it makes you feel something.

And so watch him in this being the young guy who you know was that serious and that artistically driven be like, I don't know if we should be doing this. Can you stop talking around Mr. Williams, please. He'll improve. He wouldn't say action, you know, weir. He would just throw a piece of balled up piece of paper at the head of the person who's supposed to speak first. I like that. Instead of yelling cut, he would wrap his coffee cup with a teaspoon. I assume you do the Clint Eastwood thing of you say, go ahead and that's enough of that, right?

Yes. And then I don't realize it's a rehearsal. Yes. I read the Clint biography that Sean Levy just wrote, like, not director, Sean Levy. The critic John Levy? It's just so good. And it does talk about how he would just start filming rehearsals, like, as a matter of fact. And actors be like, what the fuck are you doing?

It's authentic. I love shooting. I always tell an actor when I'm rolling or if I'm like, they're doing it, do it? And then I'll go talk to them afterwards. But I remember, do you remember when it felt like, I feel like it was again when we were in our like early 20s when the industry was acting as the women had just started directing films and television? Yeah, it was a technological. And they were, yeah, it was insane. What we did. And then there was such a story around like women not saying action because action was so male and not saying cut because it was so aggressive. violent. And I was just like, gee, can everyone fucking relax? So on my sets, my, um, my AD says action and my AD says cut. Okay. But to be fair, I'm, I am. You're in like an egg and you're, you're, no one is allowed to look at you. I don't know of a set. I direct from my helicopter. Right, exactly. And we ADR all the lines. Yeah, exactly. And your helicopter is 20 feet about the gravity is. Exactly. Really close. It's a very windy, windy, uh, sound department hates. Hate me so much. But, yeah.

They keep going back. No, but I do sometimes, depending on the scene, sometimes I'll say, I'll call it. Yeah. And then I'll just give them whenever you're ready. Because sometimes you can just tell when they're like, oh, they need a little something or whatever. But there's also, I mean, it is a thing. When Clint doesn't like the take, he says, that's enough of that. Yeah.

Is Clint is who are the only director to ever call print on auditions? That's generally. The book really lays out how philosophical. Wood in the avid. Like, the book is definitely not like he just wants to eat lunch. Because it's like he has been doing this since the 70s. Yeah. Yes.

Yes. He's a very good director. And that he's just like, the more we do it, the more you're fucking it up. Like, I like whatever you, you know. Is he about David Fincher? Well, but that's thing. But then some actors would come. I'm sorry to talk about Clint Eastwood, but I did just read this book.

Would, you know, like, Meryl Streep or whatever and be like, what? Like, you're not going to let me, like, find it? Yeah. And he'd be like, no, you're great. Standing right there. You look great. this is great. We're done.

And Kevin Costner famously fought with him on Perfect World. And he was like, I'll shoot with a stand in. And like, Costa had to back on. But to your point he's been doing this for so long, yeah. It's like what you're saying of like, it's a job. He knows how to treat it like a job. And when he's working with fucking Costner and Merrill Street, those are like two of the best performances those actors have given.

Where he gets into trouble is when he hires people. I agree. That's the thing. Literal non-professional actors is like, great. And it's like, it's not going to get better than that. And it's like, it probably would. Yeah, if you work with them a little bit. Yeah.

Also, it's so funny because I always like, like, I had an actor who was like, I'm not going to be the first take girl. Yeah. Like, it's not going to be me. So I'm like, okay, I'll, then I'll cover you second. Like, you know, like, so you start to learn on that. So it's so interesting not to. I mean, that's like a lot of directing, in my opinion is understanding the different flows

of different actors. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, had I mean, I guess she'd already done this show. Like, but the Marvel's is like her first movie. Oh my god I love her so much But she's done the show

So she was in the show But no it was actually quite great Because we I got her It was similar to getting Alfie After he did 28 years later Because that was his first movie But that kid rules

That gets incredible He was great yeah He's so funny I think yeah I think yeah I think the first movie She's just surrounded by adults But my movie he has like a bunch of teens And so

Hell yeah They all bullied to me And he made fun of me Because it took me too long To finish untarted I was like okay I'm directing a film a film, bro.

Like, sorry. Were you trying to 100% out or just get to the end of the... It's not like I was in story mode. I was in normal mode. Okay. But I think, I mean, to be fair, it's not a long game.

And it's not uncharted for it's the first uncharted. I was just, I'm in a completionist. I was like, I'll play an order. It's boring. The first uncharted. I mean, there's stuff about it that's fun, but then it's like, okay, now I have to duck behind this fucking statue

and shoot 18 people. Yeah. I played the first three on charge. I mean, well, the story of Uncharted famously starts with Nathan Drake being a young boy. his uncle before he has a mustache. Right, right.

He's talking about that. Okay, I was like, I don't remember that. Yeah, the movie, that was, you know, that was a time. It's just one of the funniest things to me that's ever happened in Hollywood development. It's such a weird casting. All the casting is so strange. They took so long that they were like, Walberg's got to be the fucking uncle now.

We got to beef that roll up. But also it's like he, like, they're just, and I, listen, I appreciate a boogie night's Mark Wahlberg. I love Tom Holland. I think he's a star's phenomenal actor. They're both miscast. It's just like, doesn't make any sense. It was just so funny to me.

They spent 15 years trying to do the version of that movie that everyone wanted to see. Yeah. And then they were like, but hear us out. We know we have failed to make the actual Nathan Drake adult movie that you all imagine. What if we did a prequel instead? And also the thing is Tom Holland's never going to grow into being Nathan Drake. No. That's the thing with casting him.

It's like, what do you think is coming? It's like Timitay Swiss Chalet is never going to grow into being the Messiah of Dune. Well, I disagree with you on that. Oh, fun. But didn't you find it straight? No, I love those movies. but didn't you find it strange how in the first movie, he's like, he has his flash forward.

Right. And he's in a stuntman's body. With his VFX eyes. You're right. He's never going to. That's not that person. His body is not going to change. It will never change, yeah.

But you are also right that, like, it is the exact thing that makes Tom Holland the most incredible Spider-Man casting of all time. Of, like, they finally got a guy who you can have play 24 ever. Yeah. Yeah. And he's also so good at Spider-Man. He's really good as Spider-Man.

Yes, yes. Let me give you some takes from, you know, Ethan Hawke has talked about this about how Peter Weir likes to quote cast for the final color. And, you know, what does that mean? Because he was basically like, Robert Sean Leonard is very shy and introverted. So he didn't make sense to me as this role. And I am the opposite. So I didn't make sense in this role either. Yeah. But Robert Sean Leonard said that Weir said to him, like, don't think about the suicide at all. Like, you are not playing this as a boy who's. doomed. You're playing this as a kid who's going on to stuff. And Hawk calls the yop scene, your favorite scene, the most significant professional day of his life is the first time I really felt the experience of being an actor where I could lose myself in a story and lose myself inside a collective imagination. They're doing steady cam. So it's like this, you know, cool, long thing that I don't know. Yeah, he liked it. All right. You're fine. This is a boring quote. At least someone like the film. I love Ethan Hawk, but that's kind of his vibe. Yeah. He'll monologue, you know, And you're like, yeah, you liked it.

Thank you, Ethan. Yeah. I agree with you. Yeah. And then they had fun making the movie. They, like, they truly did. I think it was freezing. But apart from that, like, everyone was into it.

Where'd they shoot? Delaware. Oh, fun. I guess. The budget was $16 million and the schedule was pretty tight. 16. 16. 16.

16. 16. Yeah. Sweet 16. And, like, so they had to do it really fast. And Peter, we were apparently, selects music for each scene and plays the music while everyone's lighting

and rehearsing stuff and then it will fade out right as he is starting shooting so he's trying to sort of like set a tone and when I know the guy who has to like determine when it's time to... I know. Right. And I was gonna say harder to fucking do in like a pre-I-Pot era.

Yeah, yeah. Now directors do that I'm like yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. We all read the Quentin Tarantino interview. Right, you're just hitting the volume slider down. That must have been like actually a somewhat complicated maneuver. I don't do music on set like that at all.

No? No, I mean, occasionally if we're doing a night cheese, I'll have a dance party, but, um... That's fine.

Yeah, and then, and then there's a party scene and had a, um, we... The whole movie's a party. Yeah,

or like the scene where everyone's just like, mah, um, we genuinely had like the best, like, club music playing, and everyone was like,

fuck yeah, like, it was really, yeah, it was great. I'm sure some of my exes were drunk, but... I've had,

I've had directors do that, and I do find that it helps sometimes. Cameron Crow is famous for that. I'm sure there's a version of it that is annoying. But, like, if it's really being... ADs usually hate it. Yeah, I'm sure. If it's really being used as like a mood setting thing.

Exactly. That's what it can help with, I feel like, sometimes if it's well curated. One thing I love about Debt Poets Society, I do want to give this movie it's flowers where I, you know, sometimes... Is the opening just to start talking about the movie? Sure. Because it feels like a funeral. Yes. And you are watching it, not knowing what this movie is about being like, oh, did somebody die?

And then it's like, no, school is beginning. Their spirits are dying. Yes. Like, because they're all, like, filing into this church. Yes. And it's so somber. And it's so, like, funereal. The great normal Lloyd.

You know, we'd love to welcome fucking Hagrid will be teaching creature, you know, department. It just feels like Hogwarts, like suddenly. It is like, it's like a wake for their fucking happiness. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. All these boys, these, you know, preppy, Protestant boys who are going to, I mean, become the leaders of America, I guess, right? Did you have to pray? No, you wouldn't have prayed at your school.

No. See, they would fucking pray to. I had to pray at my school. Rumsie Hall. You had to pray to who? We had to, to God. God? To the Christian, to Christian God. To white Jesus. It was specifically, right. Christian God.

Protestant, you know, was a Rumsie God. We had to, um, it was at Rumsey Hall. So we did the Lord's Prayer. Right. And then we had the Pledge of Allegiance, which it's so weird during the Pledge of Allegiance. Yeah. It's crazy when you look back on it. And I remember the first time I realized I didn't have to say it was I saw this

brilliant student, also a boring student, was like not saying it. I was like, oh. Because she doesn't pledge allegiance to our flag. Yeah. I'm like, that person is not from this country. And I was like, I'm from here, but I also could just not. No one's going to know. Yeah.

There was no prayer in my New York City public. schools, obviously, because that is against the law, at least for the next six months. Yeah, but we'll see how long the last, yeah. But then I moved to England, and there was praying because it is a religious country nominally. And but I remember I was told as a nine-year-old, it was like, you don't have to if you don't want to. I didn't get that because I, one, didn't know what to say. But they would say the Lord's Prayer. St. Anne's was originally run out of the basement of a church a block away.

Yeah, right, of course. That is the St. Anne's Church, so it took that name. And then once they had their own building, they kept the name. And they killed God. But it's the most heathenest place on Earth, God possibly. But people would always be like, oh, shit, you went to Catholic school? Yeah. Yeah.

It sounds like... Could they hit the kids? No, no. I went to a Catholic school where they could hit the kids. No, there was the wrong kind of touching. Well, see, this is well documented. Honestly, Google it. I'll say in this.

Yeah. As someone, I, there's moments where Rob Williams... David's wife also went to my high school. She did. And she is a public school teacher now. I want to clarify her. Not a private school teacher. She made it out.

Yeah. But there's moments in this where Robin Williams is really grabbing the students, like, by the shoulders and stuff. And he's being very physical with them. And I was like, it doesn't seem unrealistic to me, but I was shocked by it. He's like, you cannot touch students. Well, sure, but I also think that's a good fucking. Now, I mean. But I think that's good judgment from weird where you're like, yeah, like, fireable offense.

You know, like this movie has to end with the guy. being fired. Is he a good teacher? I, okay. This is the central question of dead poet society. They mostly seem to just hang out. I also think... It's a poetry class, though.

It is cool, though. Yes. I think a lot of this movies... Cultural legacy, right? Our age, growing up, watching me for the first time in a world where we've already heard the things repeated. All of us knew the fucking beats and the parodies and whatever. I feel like the last 20 years of dead poet society has been mostly

a lot of things making fun of this type of teacher. Yeah. Right? Like that's... The community episode about it. The community episode's a great one. But the idea of just like... The Colin Joe sketch on SNL where they all stand up and like one of them, their heads get caught off.

Yes. Right. But just this idea of like, we all find this fun and inspiring. But actually... I don't know, guys. I disagree. I'm not saying... He's a bad teacher.

And like I had Mr. Rothwell and when I was in public school for two years. He... And I came from a Catholic school where they... hit the kids. And it was so, I was like, I didn't know what was going on. Sure. I was like, you can't, I saw a nun hit a kid and she was too angry, you know? Was it? That's not God. It was the nun. And so I know all about her. So if you want to know more about her past before she was killing people. But no, I had the teacher Mr. Rothwell and like, he was very similar in the sense that, and he was absolutely ridiculous. He was an actor, of course.

Right. And when we were, he was white and when we were doing reason and the son, he was like, I'll be the part of this person. And I was like, oh, that's great. Cool, cool, cool. But he, really wanted us to like learn how to think. And it was so clear, even though he was ridiculous, we all were like, oh, like, that's what he's doing. Yeah. But we also were like, but I mean, I got myself in trouble. He was like, challenge. Where are your sources in history class? And so in history class, I was like, what are your sources? And my teacher was like, the textbook. Don't flip it back on me. Yeah. She was like, shut up. Yeah. This has been bedded. Exactly. I had a couple teachers that made a tremendous amount to me that changed my life that

All did that. Like all the people who meant something to me were the... They made you rip out pages? No, but I'm teaching you how to think, not what to think. Totally. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, like, felt empowering in that way and had that kind of like, I'm putting this out there waiting to see the kids who need to hear this and who will respond. And then I'm really going to lock in with them, you know? It's a very interesting.

So the movie is about his year as a teacher with these boys. You don't see him teaching any other classes. I assume he does teach other classes. Yeah. Like he's not just teaching, you know, juniors or whatever they are seniors. He's not the POV character. We start the movie with the bowl. I mean, even to your point, the opening of this film, it's like, you start with a shot of a mural of a painting of these well-behaved boys, right?

Like, literally, like, this is the model of how we want you to look. And then the camera pans down to a small child being dressed up in his uniform. The sort of feeling of the factory line of like, this is, we're molding you to just be this. Right. And then going into this funereal procession, as you said. And then he's introduced as the announcement like, oh, he's an alumnus and we're all welcoming me. Mr. Keating. But we're seeing him basically from the POV of these boys in the pew as they're seeing just this guy sitting at the end of the line on the stage.

And it's an interesting high school movie in that there's no bully, really. There are meaner kids and like less kids who are less into it. One kid who's a fucking think. Yeah. There's one kid who is a thing. But he's more of like a little coward. Like, right? He just, he caves.

Yeah. But it's like I watched this movie. And I hadn't seen that. And I was like, oh yeah. Does Josh Charles play the bully? Because, like, that's what he usually would play in every other. Just plays a normal forehead kisser. He plays a prince charming.

All he's trying to do is rescue princesses by kissing him. But, like, right, it's about this, like, largely very sincere group of boys. Yeah, yeah. Who seem, I sort of, I guess, the movie's, you know, arguing, like, oh, Mr. Keating helped them, you know, learn to think and love poetry and all that. But I'm like, taught them how to be in touch with their emotions. Yeah, exactly. That's the bigger thing.

feely boys and it feels like they're pretty on board with him pretty much right away. I do find this movie interesting to watch now in a kind of peak our young men okay era. Right. Where this is a movie that as you said, it is kind of about him teaching them to not be afraid of their own emotion. Yeah, because they're basically like, should we have a secret poetry society where we get like so working up about Shakespeare and shit? And I'm like, that sounds great. The healthiest version of a man cave ever. But I mean, I went to a school where I love digging.

English. I love poetry. I love Shakespeare and all that. It's like, it wasn't, I wasn't finding, like, tons of other kids who were like, let's do some late-night Shakespeare shit together. Bringing fucking cool lamps into the cave. And then girls, and that's when things went off. Well, the thing about theater, which I did in high school, was that was how you got to meet girls. Yes, yes, yes. So that was crucial. What does he say that this is no Greek society? Does he say that? To no pederast. There's the point where they're like, what, you just hang out in a cave

reading poems with other boys? And Williams, like, kind of does the eyebrow wiggle of like... Not just boys. Right. He says, I'll find the fucking line. But, yes, it does feel like he knows wisely, much like theater teachers often weaponize this,

as you said, to be like, hey, guys, don't you want to, like, know how to talk to women? Yeah, yeah. You have to trap them. Right. Obviously, there's no homosexual overtones in this movie, despite it being, like, a movie about a bunch of boys at school.

Another thing that's surprising. Well, it's not surprising because of the ear. Did you, wait, did you go to all boys in England? Yes, I did. Okay. Have you heard of Meat Lips? Oh, boy. Don't Google that.

Don't Google that. I like her this is going. Did you go to all boys, Griffin? No. Okay. Did you go to all boys? No. Okay.

So I go to England. He's like Ben sucks. I go to England. I go to public school at my local school when I'm nine years old. And then I, to everyone's surprise, I tested into this, like, good school. but that was a boy school. My mom was like, I must have been so hard for my mom, like, in retrospect, was like, I'm going to send him to like a all-boy school where he wears a fucking tie. Like, I was living in New York two years ago. Like, what is going on? Were you so adorable? I was very adorable. Of course. I have to see a picture when we're done. Sure, I'll find a picture. But, no, I don't know what meat lips is. Is that what you just said? Okay. Yeah. So, so from at my boring school, some boys came from an all-boy school. And meat lips is basically where a boy would go into his bands, rub his balls with his hands, and then smack a boy on the, on the mouth and go meat lips. This is a British thing or you're saying it's just a boy.

But I would say that stuff was happening plenty. I was always so worried about, once I heard that, I was like, are. Will I get me whipped? Are men okay? They would never go to a girl. No, no, men, no, men, okay. Yeah, it was really crazy how focal your penises were in your daily lives. Getting pants was a big thing in my life.

The thing about a boy's school is, yes. like there's maybe too much familiarity and discussion of everyone's penises. Yeah, yeah. Where it's like, you know, if there are girls around or maybe everyone kind of like knows to just sort of chill out a little bit, that's the problem with a boys school. The advantage of boys' schools is that everyone's just lazy and stinky. Like, because there's no... I'm sorry, that's the advantage. Well, I'm just like...

It smells bad. Like, to me, what was crazy about going to a boy school was girls' schools because all the girls I knew who went to girls' schools, those places were. were crazy. Like, it was so much psychological torment and awful shit. Girls were seeing so mean to each other. Whereas if you put boys together, yeah, there's a little bullying and stuff. Like, there's some jocks and door. But, like, mostly it's just like 14-year-old boys. You're just like, we're just disgusting. We're just all disgusting together. So it's sort of like a, quote, unquote, chill atmosphere, I guess. Yes. Interesting. I don't know. Meat Lips is really unchill to me.

That sounds quite unchill. Yeah, maybe it's England's different. I don't know. No, England's true. No, it's actually terrible. I have a couple of guy friends who went in England who went to boarding school from the age of like eight and they're all very sad about it. Well, that, and especially boarding school in England.

And I would meet people, you know, and their parents would have gone to boarding school. And they had never gotten over it. Yeah. Because I feel like it's, you know, the role doll books and all that about his experience in boarding school. It's like just institutional bullying. Like where it's like the sort of the older boys, like the structure of like, well, I was bullied. so now I'm going to bully you. Yeah, the hierarchy.

Tradition. Right, yeah, exactly. Like, it just seems awful. Then you're like, obviously. Yeah, obviously. And then, like, teaching would be, I mean, the guy he's telling him to rip the book out, right? That's a real thing. That's some fucking famous academic from the early 20th century.

It's like, yeah, poetry should be, like, put on a graph of, like, how good it is. That is actually the most insane. It's not made up. It's so crazy. Yeah. And, like, I mean, good for him being, like, that's silly, like, or whatever. But, like, yeah, it's like, that was, like, like, that was, like, like, guess how frigid their education was supposed to be.

Did you guys have this game? Uh-oh. Oh, boy. I'm not looking. Yeah. I'm not looking. Go ahead. Ben, I was going to say.

Door knob and safety really were cast a big shadow over my, my adolescence. What does that mean, doorknob safety? That if you fart, you have to call safety before anyone else calls it, calls you out on it. And if they say doorknob and correctly accuse you of farting before you've said safety, then they get to keep punching you until you touch a doornob. Oh, my gosh. That one I don't know. Really?

I don't know if that's sounding vaguely familiar. It's so the mind of a teenager, like this sort of like inventiveness of punishment. This is the other thing. Look, the internet existed when we were teenagers, but like social media didn't exist in the same kind of way. We have game, yeah. These things weren't open source. Yeah, the most we had was like some. instant messaging trauma.

Right. But like whatever you experience at your school, you're like, this must be the most universal thing in the world. Right. I just assumed all three of you were going to laugh uproariously when I said doorknob and safety. For all I know, maybe no one else has ever done this. Reddit, our nostalgia. This is saying, though. When someone else play safety doorknob when farting as a kid?

We couldn't go to Reddit to find out if this was a game. Do you want to Reddit, uh, meatlips? Yeah, Reddit meatlips. R slash meatlips. David. Yes. They say that the eyes are the window to the soul. They do say that.

What does that make our glasses? The windows. The window frames? I don't know. The curtains? Yeah, the curtains. The point is, if you are glasses where, like, I am or, like, our own producer Ben is. True.

It's a big decision. Sure. Because this is how you introduce yourself to the world. This is that engage with other people. You make eye contact through the frames. Sometimes it's just time for a refresh. Totally agree. All right.

Well, so what about Zeni Optical? Oh, the one. Find folks a zany glasses. The eyewear. They got fun shapes, sizes, and colors. They got a lot of colors. Right. Statement pieces.

Bold statement pieces, they call them. And they're inexpensive, I would say. They're an online eyewear shop with prescription glasses, sunglasses, blue light lenses, all starting at under $30. That's crazy. That is very low. I feel like glasses often cost more than $30. way more but

you go to zini.com, you pick a frame, you upload your prescription, they ship it to your door, no appointment, no store, no off sale at the counter. Easy. At that price,

something kind of shifts. You're not like, do I need new glasses? You're like, why don't I try something fun, right? Sometimes you've got an old pair, they got a scratch on them,

it's annoying, but you're like, am I going to go through the hassle? Or the screws start to get loose and you find yourself taking out that microscopic little screwdriver over and over again to tighten them up.

At this price, why not just getting them another pair. Ben, I ordered a pair of the Magoo. I think this is funny. Okay. We all know from Mr. Magoo, the cartoon character who can't see. And Zeni is saying, let's solve that problem. Let's give you glasses called Magoo. They're blue and green. Two of my favorite colors. A nice boxy frame. I also ordered a pair. I got crystal sand oval sunglasses. Very reminiscent of a Kurt Cobain-esque looking pair of sunglasses that I have feel like you also wore in the film pavements.

Very similar, yes. Yes, when I played Steve West. I was someone inspired by you. Yeah. And I got these great sunglasses. They're sort of clear frames. Yeah. With a greenish tinted lens.

I'm wearing the Magoo as just everyday optical prescription glasses. And let me say, I'm having the opposite of Mr. Magoo experiences. I'm seeing everything clearly. I'm walking the right direction. You don't see me accidentally up on some steel beams. Exactly. They've got 150,000 five-star reviews. Yeah.

And if you've never run glasses online before, they have a virtual try-on so you can see how it's going to look on your face before you commit. Mm-hmm. If your glasses are overdue for a refresh, now is the time. Go to zeni.com slash podcast and use code podcast 15 for 15% off your first order. This dial sell out, so don't sit on it. That's Z-E-N-N-I.com slash podcast promo code podcast 15. David?

Yep. I love wearing hats. Oh. I'm a hatsman. You are. What do you? If I said it was a hatsman, I would agree. certainly and much like Daniel Plainview

I love starting businesses but I'll tell you the one part of the starting a business I don't like having to wear so many hats all at once I'm a one hat at a time guy okay well I guess you can only have one hat at a time and you know you're just gonna be intimidated and lonely that's the concern

but here's an option what if Shopify could metaphorically take some of those hats off your head and start wearing them themselves. Look, Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world. 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. It's a pretty crazy stat. Uh, you know, we've, we're working on getting our own Shopify page up.

We're relaunched our merch with our own Shopify page. And they're the dream business part. But like, you know, Mamafuku Heinz, Mattel. Oh, yeah. Heard of them. I just bought a lot of He-Man toys and got tracking updates from Shopify. So Shopify, obviously, you know, gets you started with your own design studio. They've got hundreds of ready to use templates.

Yeah. You can build a big, beautiful online store matching your brand style. Mm-hmm. Get, you know, you can get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns where wherever your customers are scrolling and strolling. I like that. I love to scroll and scroll and, David, yes. I enjoy as a consumer on the other side of the...

the transaction. Sure. That I can open my Shopify app and I see all my orders there. I see the tracking updates. I can keep track of what I've ordered. Can I tell you some things I ordered recently? Vinegar Syndrome, the fine folks of Vinegar Syndrome. Love him.

I ordered Rade Jude's Dracula, which is not part of her upcoming Patreon series, but I thought it was good. Supplemental watching. Yeah. And Young Stank Myers Faust. Very good. Lovely diss from those fine folks. Thank you.

I bought an action figure of Andor and his droid friend, E2 Emo. Yeah. from the fine folks at Toink. The store is called Toink. But now that I finally watched Andor and I'm Andor-pilled, I had to ask Twink. We support you?

To give me an Andor figure in exchange for money. Right. I also bought replicas of the sunglasses from They Live, from the fine folks of fright rags. These are things I'm keeping track up that are very important and mature. Yeah. Look, you could be like some of the brands that are selling Griffin. Pishish.

You can either start a business and look for Griffin's to sell things. too. Or you can be a griffin and buy too many things. So start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start hearing, cha-ching, to sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com slash check. Go to shopify.com slash check. That's Shopify.com slash check. Chuching. The line William says is we weren't a Greek organization. We were romantics. sure, sure. Which I guess is more of a fraternity.

Right. I mean, you know, what Keating is doing is just being like, hey, this textbook is silly. We're going to like think about art in a more meaningful way, blah, right? But then the kids are so into him that they are like, what was your, they find the old yearbook. And they're like, oh, you had the dead poet society. What was that? And he's like, almost half mocking.

Even though they like him, they're like, what is this dorky thing? And the way that he with such intercom. confidence, like, says the thing about, like, we suck the marrow out of life. Like, we, like, fucking lived it up. This shit was rad. Right. You see them all get sparked of, like, oh, fuck, is it cool to care about shit? But that's the age when you're so receptive to that, actually.

Absolutely. You need someone to tell you, like, it's okay to feel things. Yeah. It's okay to be, like, genuine. Yeah. And that scene is so intoxicating. Yeah. We're jumping ahead now.

But, yes, it is crazy to me rewatching this, how. like the first 15 minutes of the movie you're like, oh shit, almost all of the iconic stuff happens in the first 15 minutes. It's true. A lot of the big, the carpe diem ripping out the, yeah, yeah,

Oh, Captain, Mike Captain, like all that stuff is set up basically in the first class alone. You're like, most of the cultural reputation of this movie is basically the first 15 minutes in the last five. Yeah, you know, with like the stuff in the middle is the stuff that I think, not that's forgotten, but is less discussed. What's what's less... exciting.

Like, yeah. Josh Charles kissing a girl and, like, you know, her boyfriend and blah, blah, blah. It's like, no, who cares? I think the middle act of this movie is pretty dull. Yeah. It's the duller part. Yeah. But, yes, he hits the ground running.

This guy fucking first class. It's just like, here's my deal. Another question about this guy. I hate to nitpick this guy. But it's like, right, he's so, he had such an exciting high school life, I guess. Okay. Went to Cambridge. Yeah.

We learned and studied English. Now he's fucking. fucking back at, like, his private school that he went to. He says it. He said, I love teaching. Just go teach somewhere else, asshole. Where's his partner? Yeah, who's he married to?

She's in England. Yeah. It's a girlfriend. Yeah. What's doing here in snow town, Massachusetts or whatever? Doesn't the, the autumn and the winter, doesn't it look so nice? That's the magic. It's very, it's so romantic.

You guys have a few teachers. I had a few teachers in my school who had gone to the school, like in my high school who were like alumni like two or three and I remember being just like you wanted to come I mean I like the school fine but I was like you wanted to go back here you didn't want to go somewhere else but do you find now that you have people you went to school with who are now doing that because I have there are couple I went to high school with and I'm like it's a good quest just go somewhere else it's just like it's fine there must be one or two go carpe diem in like Baltimore or something yeah actually carpe die here I will say those also weren't the teachers that like changed my life I definitely had a couple who had

gone to the school. Yeah. They were not the ones who really stuck with me, whatever that says. No, there's the scene, the Robertron Leonard scene, it does feel like he says that where he's just like, if you're so great, why the fuck are you teaching here? Right. And his answer is, it's what I love doing. Right. And I think the subtext of that also is that like, because when he shows up on the class the first day, he's like, what's the name of the fucking school?

The school that they're at? Yeah. Welton Academy. Right. He says, right, I'm also a help me. Wait a second. Like, he's leading with this sort of sense of, I know how much this place sucks. Yeah.

I'm someone who made it out the other side. I think the reason he goes back there is because he wants to, like, repay the loop. Mm. Yeah, exactly. These are boys who are going to get fucking crushed. Like, save them. Which that makes sense to me is sort of like, that's his noble mission. Although, I, I, it's interesting.

Again, it's like, there's a lot of movies in this movie that I am maybe more interested by because like there's the scene early as Sean where the other teacher not a administrator kind of calls him out being like you're doing what like you're ever not pages and shit your kids are running around their friends though and they're friends and he's kind of saying like you're oh you're a cynic and he goes no I'm a realist exactly the guy's basically saying like look I'm not mad about you doing it but right but like I don't think it's going to work out why are you telling them all that they can be artists you're going to turn them all into frustrating fit frustrated failed artists right like

He's basically saying don't empower all of them. Yeah, like just keep it cute, you know? Right. He's giving the advice essentially of like also like don't like make a false promise of they're going to be able to do whatever they want. And I guess that's pointing to the end of the movie, but I find the end of the movie a little dishonest. Well, at the end of the movie, that friend of his, he, he's walking with his class outside. And he gives him a nod.

Yeah, yeah. He's like, heeding's up in the tower. Yeah, yeah. That's the other thing. I don't think this guy's ever long for this. school, he doesn't fight the firing. It feels like even if they hadn't fired him, I wouldn't be surprised if this guy left after

a year. It feels like he wants to go back there. Right. He wants it to be something and he wants to be able to do this, but it's like, the principal of this school is like, well, I think children are awful and books should be shouted at them. And I will

paddle anyone who disagrees him. He's like the worst guy in the world. The paddling scene is so icky. The paddling scene kind of rocks. Weird kind of knocks that out of the part. Yeah. Yeah, I know he does. He does. It's very long time. But I think they don't expand on it that much. It's a throwaway moment. But the very attractive blonde woman, he has a frame photo on his desk who's in England.

I just have to imagine that this is sort of like, you know what? I'll go back there and teach for a year while she's doing a graduate program abroad or something. It feels like there's some reason why he has to be long distance with his girlfriend. It doesn't come up, but yeah. And so why not do this rather than I want to be a fucking, part of the firm in of this place for decades. Yeah, even when he shows up, like, his energy is just so... I mean, it's very Robin Williamsy, but it's so, like, I don't know, ephemeral.

It's... It is a perfect use of him. You were saying how important Robin Williams was to you. He was just, like, for our generation... Yeah. In the 90s, he was the biggest. He's the guy. He was the guy.

Yeah. And to be a child and be like, this guy makes, like, the best family movies. Mm-hmm. He also feels like the ultimate celebrity. Anytime he shows up on TV, he's going to be funny. And yet you're aware, like, he is taken seriously by grownups. Yeah. There's this side of him that I'm not getting yet.

Yeah. But he's not just inventing Flubber out here. Yo, Flubber was my shit. Flubber rule. I haven't seen it in 30 years, maybe. I remember having a couple notes on that one as well. When you were eight with your screenplay? I think I was 11 when I saw Flubber and I was too old for Flubber, possibly.

When I saw Flubber was 19. 97? Yeah, that was 11. Number Jack? Jack's kind of fun. Jack I've often referred to as my least favorite movie ever made. Jack is tough. Yeah.

That's a tough movie. It's sad at the end. Yeah, sure. It's also sad at the beginning. That's why he ages all right. That's upsetting. Directed by? Oh, yeah, Francis for Coppola.

His low point. But Francis, okay. We can't talk about Frank. Okay. We can't. Yeah. No, it's too much. You haven't left it off yet.

You got to lop it off before we talk about Frank. Wait, Lopoda. A megalopolis. Oh, oh, I haven't seen it yet. Yeah, exactly. You got to lop it off. Oh, yes, yeah. Listen, I bought it.

I was so excited. I went to see it in theaters or I wanted to. And then I just never got around to it. And then I just, yeah. Do I have time of the day? Look, he's starting to recut it. It's not finished. There'll probably seven more versions of Megalopolis.

Yeah. He's from an era where it was like, here's the director's cut and the extended cut and the this cut and that cut. And it's like, but you'd, you'd, you'd, You made the movie with your own money, so it should just be your cut, right? It's true. Who's, who you're fighting with? He's getting your notes, Frannie.

Yeah. He did an interview, and maybe it's already come out by this point. I bet it was normal. But he did interview recently, very normal, where he was like, am I tried doing a weirder cut? And I'm like, a weirder cut, my guy? Oh, my God. You had no notes on this fucking self-funded fever dream?

By all means, go off. Show me your weirder cup, but why wasn't that the first guy? I sure doesn't happen. It's long as well. it's pretty long it's pretty long movie yeah it's not like the longest movie but like it's up there for length it's not the shortest either

um dev ho's society so yeah you know they rip out the book and he says carpe diem I like that they don't pathologize this character too much that they don't over explain him that he does feel a little magical

well because now if the movie came out now there'd be a scene where you'd see they'd realize he's an alcoholic and blah blah there would be 20 scenes right there's there's this sort of a purity to just like, yeah, we don't really know.

He's, we know he's an alum. It would absolutely open with this guy, like, walking into the building with his briefcase on the first day. I mean, like, I love the holdovers. A movie I think you only like. I like, yeah. That, to me, is a better sort of version of the, because the same vibe, obviously, it's actually, you know, period boarding school in Massachusetts. Where it's just like, the teachers are like, I'm a crusty piece of shit.

Shit. Like, I shouldn't be here. If I wanted to, you know, if I'd achieved my goals, like, I wouldn't be here. But I can still help you. Like, hurt people can still help each other. Yeah, but that movie is almost the exact shadow self of this movie, right? That's a guy who's stuck here forever and you're like, why? You seem tortured and you're torturing others.

Right, right, right, right. And also, it is from his perspective more than the kid. Yeah. Yeah. But it is a similar feeling. I had a similar feeling of like, oh, I'm just, we're just vibing out. We're just look at the door. look at the school.

Look at the architecture. New England. It's gorgeous. It's... Dead Poet Society is a beautiful movie. And it really... Anytime I'm sort of just

when I was watching it, I'm like... I was just like, this looks so fucking. Of course I do. Autumn. But I'm like the... Autumn.

New Hollywood, right? Brings about a kind of shift in the visuals of American film, I would argue, where people were trying to avoid a feeling of like overly manicure. sumptuousness, right?

Yeah, which then you're like, why is it so ugly? Even a lot of the big epics of the 70s and 80s were like lit. Hey, Pacino, why so ugly? Why's so ugly, baby? We're lit a lot more flatly than the like equivalent movies of the 60s and before that, right? Because there was this feeling of like we're going for a naturalism, a roughness. This movie still has like the grain structure of like the 80s before the 90s really

like improved film speeds. And then you get these films that just look like immaculately shiny and glossy. Yeah. And it feels like that style comes back into fashion. But it does feel like this movie establishes like a color palette and a lighting scheme that then kind of becomes the default for like sensitive, serious studio dramedy. Yeah. John Seale. Do you call this a dramedy?

I would call it a dramedy. A light drama. It was not made as a drama in the Golden Globes. I would call this a drama. I would call this a straight up drama. It has suicide. and stuff in it. I guess it's light-ish

in that like the first chunk of it is like, oh, he's a nice teacher. But like, it's kind of a sad movie. Like, even when he's being, it's just like, you're just like, this sucks. Yeah, fucking sucks. These boys got to go to this fucking place. Norman Lloyd, not, yeah, Norman Lloyd,

right, is the principal, you know, who's like, he is great. So good. You know, it's just like, this sucks. John Seale, who shot it just a reference that, you know, weir picks him up from, of Australian obscurity for witness. And he had done, you know,

mosquito coast, like he'd been working with Weir for a second. Yeah. But he'd also done right before this, Gorillas in the Mist and Rain Man, which are similar vibe. Yeah. Where it's like we're going back,

like you're saying to this kind of like burnished, more lush kind of prestigey look for these kinds of movies. And then right after this, he does Lorenzo's Oil. Well, that's a gorgeous movie. Right. But that feels like the fully burnished version of that.

Right. That's what you're saying. And then, but then like, And then, of course, he wins the Oscar for English Pation a few years from now, which is like the ultimate. The apex of it. Exactly. Yeah. Right.

I'm like, we finally perfected the 90s Oscar movie look. Right. And then people are like, enough already. You know, like, that's sort of the peak. Yeah. And then he shot Fury Road. Right. Yeah. I saw it in high school.

Sorry. He shot Fury Road. And 3,000 years of long. He's only worked. He's basically retired. Isn't he 100? John Seal is 82. He's so old.

He's not. I honestly, George Miller and him shooting Fury Road, I'm just like, baby, are you okay? It is the ultimate. I feel like with each passing year, it just becomes harder to understand how that movie was made. And the more information that comes out, and especially just here. Well, they took all these

vehicles under the Fury Road. Oh, of course. Okay. And the Dew Forrier was there and so on and so forth. But I do feel like it is the ultimate movie that filmmaker's site where they're just like, I can't get my head around this. Yeah. It's like, I cannot, it's sort of Berg's famous quote where he's like, My three questions are, how did they ever finish making this movie? How did no one die? And I forget what the third one is. Yeah.

The fact that it's like a masterpiece, let alone a movie that cuts together is insane. Yeah. No, it's, I find it especially like, because I read Kyle's book about it and, and, um, yes, who I think is such a great writer. And, um, uh, you know, you're just like, I could have never done that because I, the amount of fighting he had to do, obfuscating, ignoring, I don't know, running off into the wilderness to avoid it. You know, like, it's crazy. And also like 15 years of not making it being like, nope, not right. Yeah. You know, like, I got to stay on my ground. I know exactly what this fucking thing is.

And then it's just like everyone hated him while he was making it and then saw the screening and was like, oh, you were right. Yeah. Like, how the fuck do you like have that clear sense of it in your head? Yeah. And somehow get exactly what you want. want out of everybody, even in a way at a time where you can't communicate it to them. Yeah. Yeah. It's madness. Fascinating. Madness. Okay, so what else happens? They were about the book?

Seen one. The page is Carpe Diem. He sparks them pretty quickly. They're on board. As you said, he has the conversation with the other teacher. What were you going to say, Nia? Well, I mean, the boys, Nwanda, my favorite. He's my favorite. And he doesn't really

hacked after it. I know, he's good. He was a high-level studio exec? He did. He did. Gail Hanson, I believe, is his name? Yes. He was so cute. Sort of flipped over to being in... An internship where I worked under his wife, who was just like, you know what's weird?

My husband was that guy in Dead Poet Society? And he kind of never acted again. Yeah. I mean, good for him. I thought he was really good. He's really good. He's good. All the kids are good.

Would you agree? I mean, like... Yes, yeah. I mean, but they all... And they all... I was just, like, amazed at how good the casting was because they all are like, you know, Ethan Hawk, Dr. Wilson.

Yes. And that ginger bastard. But it is, it is this like era of, as David was saying, there was just like a crop of brown-haired boys who were all just ready to go. And there were all these movies that kept being like, we need four of you. That's the right now, though, don't you think? I think we're finally back at that again. Like, it was so, because I was also, I was talking to someone, I'm like, who's a movie star? Because there's so many white boys right now.

Yes. But are any of them actually bankable? It's really interesting. I think the bankability is a question. and it's very much still in flux. I think Tim, to me is the only one who is like definitively proven himself

in that area. Yeah. But it does feel like there is a really strong crop of young white guys for the first time of like 20 years. Yeah. And they're all just,

and they're, I think similar energy, they're all battling it out until someone is like, you know what, I need five of you. I'm like, oh, thank God. Like, you know. But the other,

the other difference is it feels like these guys all are a little bit Ethan hockey where they're just like, I fucking care about this. And I want to do it right. And I don't care. about being seen as dorky about loving acting.

Sure. And I want to work with good people. They're not just like doing the movie star playbook. 100%. They want to be like important in a way that is, was seen as embarrassing for a while. And I think that's finally come back around. It's interesting that like Hawk, who, as you say, like had already done kid performances, he goes on to obviously be pretty quickly he's a star.

Yeah. Like by 94, we've got reality bites. Yeah. And but even in 91, he did like white fang. he was doing kind of like, you know. But by reality bites, he is like a fully defined thing. Robert Sean Leonard, I feel like just became one of those guys everybody likes. Yes.

But it's the house role is sort of like a whole re-invention for him. Before then it was like, oh, yeah, we love him and he does theater. I was going to say, I feel like he was one of those ultimate guys who was like, he's not that interested in chasing the Hollywood thing. He loves doing theater. He's so well regarded in theater. Is he a Tony? He has one. I don't know.

For Arcadia? Let's find out. I think you're right. I think you are wrong. You got a Tony nomination for Candida. Okay. I'm not sure if he did Arcadia. He did the invention of love. Oh, he won a Tony for the invention of love.

Yay. Another Tom Stopper play. But did he do Arcadia. I'll find out. I did the Music Man at some point as well. That also sounds right. He sings? I don't remember.

Yeah. Yeah, he replaced Craig Bierko in that music man. That's funny. With Chenoweth? I don't know. Sounds right. He, yes, incredibly respected. David, I've never been wrong once on this podcast.

Not seeing Chenow. But you know, Chenoweth... Look at the Arcadia thing because I need to be proven correct about this. He did Arcadia! Woo! Top Stopper! Thank you guys so much. It is...

What I was going to say is, it was funny that it was like... For someone who had this heat when he was young and... such a huge part and such a huge movie that it was like. And then he kind of like eschewed that whole thing and really focused on theater. And then you're like, right. And he did 10 years of house. Yeah. And probably made $1 trillion.

Oh my God. And it's such a life. That house role, it's the perfect fucking role because it's like, you probably only work one day. Perfect work. Yeah. Like mostly Wilson in that show is sitting behind his desk and house comes in and is like, I'm fucking dumb house. I'm a rascal.

You know, and Wilson's like, oh boy. And then like, once. a while he does more stuff, but usually you just do that. He got paid like $150,000 per I roll at Thing House says. That show is so great. I was re-watching it, and it's really good. Especially, I would say, the first three, four seasons.

Yeah, yeah, I've gone beyond the point. I've just feed it off a bit. On fire is like one of the most undeniable performance. But also so inappropriate. Oh, my God. But I think the episode three stories, I mean, House is like beloved and people watch it all the time, but yet it's sort of forgotten in that early prestige.

three stories which is from the first season of house it is one of the most amazing pieces of TV writing Is that the one? It's the one that reveals how he got the list It's like an early season one He's cutting forces him to do the lecture Yes, yeah The Dead Poet Society

So he rips out the pages and he says carpeted out I'm just gonna keep saying No no So this is what I was actually getting to Which was like the boys They each have a thing they do right So the one boy is like I'm gonna kiss a girl Without her consent

Another one is I like theater now All of a sudden Nwanda is I'm just gonna change my name to Nwanda I'm gonna write appropriate every culture

But he's also like I'm gonna live that life Yeah Yeah He's kind of the original Jake Sully Sure In that he draws some paint on space

Okay guys thank you so much Thank you so much for the We gotta go Got out of here Oh man Yes no They each have a little Kind of mini arc

Of like what does he empower them to be able to do. It is funny that with distance you're like, a few of these kids didn't need the empowering. Yeah, let me, you know, absolutely. Ethan Hawke, he empowers to be able to say a sentence

out loud at room tone. Which I like that scene. It's really good. Yeah, I feel like this movie, what this movie does really well, it's very hard in a film to show an audience art and be like, this is good.

Or to explain that is a great call. Passion for an art form. It is the Mr. Holland's opus thing that David always talks about. Which is what? You spend an entire movie being like this guy's

fucking life's work and you do the opus at the end and it sucks ass. And you're like, this guy doesn't sell the audience on the power of music and his music is bad. To get mad about the Reddit, but there was some threat about my common complaint about Mr. Holland's opus, which is of course that,

yes, his opus is toilet. And people are like, he doesn't get the message that like actually all the kids he taught over the years or his opus. I'm like, I got that message. They kind of hammered. home. I know. The movie's not like fucking China town.

I actually read that thread. You weren't telling us before you record that you read the Reddit way too much, Nia. I do, I do. We are your opus, and he's like, I guess so. I mean, like, to be clear, in the movie, he's such a curmudgeon. Yeah. But then he's like, oh, yeah, sure. And then they're like, and now you're opus and they're like,

blip, brip, baby, man, it's just. Also, here's a retort. If the kids were his opus, is that that much of an accomplishment either? They stink. They all sing. I can't sell this thing for me. second. But you were right. I do think this is a movie that like actually sells you, the audience on what it's trying to sell the kids. Yes. Yes. And I also think it's a really good screenwriting decision that they like are sparked by the guy. They're like, what's this guy's fucking deal? They go and find the yearbook. They find the weird thing that they bring to him almost half mockingly. He doesn't say like, boys, this is what you need to do. Yeah. Go find a cave and read each other poems. Girls will.

show up. He's sort of beyond reproach to me personally. I mean, mine is destroying school property of the books, but I'm like, you know, it's really, it's not, they off, they go off. I'd like that they're basically self-motivated in June. Yeah. Well, there's this question of like, right, you know,

at the end of the movie, Robert John Leonard's character says, you know, seeks his advice on the whole, like, I want to act and my dad doesn't want me to do it. That scene is so good. That's incredible. The scene is really well acted. Keating doesn't do anything wrong. No. But Keating definitely sort of knows, like you can see on Williams's face, like, his dad's not going to go for this. This isn't going well. Like, you know, because Keating says like, look, talk to him. Tell him how you feel about this. Say exactly what you're saying to me. Right. And then they have this second conversation where he's like, and you talk to him and he's like, yeah, it didn't go well. But, you know, and you're kind of like, no, it's not like Keating is responsible for this kid then killing himself or whatever. But you are kind of like, but it is, it's all a little out of hand.

You know, like, you know, he's not doing much communication up or with the parents or whatever. The other thing. He could be trying to intervene a little more. The other thing I think Williams plays really well is you get the sense in him that he is questioning, am I responsible for this in any way, right? That he plays that very quietly. It's another thing that's helped by him not being the POV character of the movie. Right. So he's sort of in and out and you're not sure, like, how involved it is.

But it doesn't feel like he fights the firing. Yeah. And it's obviously not his fault. but there is this part of him of just like, I'm just telling kids to fucking, you know, say whatever they want and do whatever they want. I'm not really thinking about.

And you can't not feel totally somewhat, not responsible. But yeah, in a way, guilt has no logic, really, you know? Right, exactly. Exactly. It's just crazy that the dad and then the administration blames his teaching

instead of looking at the obvious, which is that the dad is forcing his son to do stuff that he really doesn't want to do. But the school can't deal with that. But it's just such an annoying example of bureaucracy that really gets under my skin.

It's so stupid. But I also think the school exists to mirror that viewpoint of the dad. Right. Like the function of this school in terms of what it's promising parents is like we're going to kick all the fucking weird.

We're getting your kids ready for doctoring and lawyering and whatever. Like that's the promise of the premise. You know, that's what's on the bottle here. It's like we're going to make them fucking upstanding citizens of society. Yeah. Right.

And it's just like they're just printing doctor, lawyer. Yeah. Right. And you see them side eyeing Williams from the beginning. Even before there's any demonstrable damage of what he's done. Yeah. Even before the Gail Hanson character has the act out or whatever. And there's anything they can sort of like reprimand Williams for.

They're already like, this could be dangerous you know we don't need these kids like fucking believing in themselves that's not what they're paying us for I had that with my teacher Mr. Rothwell in middle school he got into trouble because he wanted us to read Antigone

and we were sixth graders I think and little early for Antigone Dude it's Antigone But my wife teaches Antigone What age? I would say more like Ninth grade or ninth grade Yeah which you know

Yes Me however I'd already I'd read it because I'm a loser. And I, but I was like, yeah, there's a lot of suicide in that. Very dark things. I think incest is an Antigone as well. You know.

I mean, it's the, intigone is the sequel to Oedipus. Yeah, exactly. And, yeah, so, but for us. A bit of an Ediple complex. If you really think about it. That's my idea. Griffin. Sorry.

Absolutely. Sorry. No, I always forget, like, when I'm in the presence of it, I'm always like. Oh, of his bullshit? It's just unstoppable. Have I ever told you you're a bit boy? You're not wrong. This is like when Kevin Durant went on Bill Simmons years ago and started talking about the blog boys.

You're a bit boy. You're going to make a t-shirt. I'm a fucking bit boy. A bit boy. I'm a nasty little bit boy. I was telling a friend of mine who's a bit boy. I was like, oh, you're such a bit boy. He's like, what's a bit boy?

I'm like, you're a boy doing bits. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Laser accuracy. Yeah. Bit boy.

Yeah. I love for you though. But this is your world. Bitboy away. Look. The bits paid for all of it. this. You are sitting in a home a bit.

Look upon the toys. Look how many fucking toys are. Those fingers paid for with bits. I also, sorry, because the monologue is like a long bit, but it's also like you are an actor. So it's like this, like, it's in a bit sort of middle space. Oh, excellent. Jesus Christ. Stop.

It did a bit at some point. I don't remember if it was on mic. Is it being grumpy a bit? Or if it was off mic. It's a really good question. it's kind of, that's become a bit of an Andy Kaufman thing where it's hard to tell where the bid ends. Is he still in control of it?

I don't know. It makes me, I'm so nervous. Oh, I forgot to call my friend. So we're all just taking phone calls now? Sorry, excuse me. Hello? No. Okay.

He, David, at some point a couple of years ago, did an impression of his daughter being a teenager and being dismissive about the podcast. And angrily saying, oh, those bits you're making fun. They paid for allers. They paid for your education. Disgusting.

It's disgusting. Yeah. You're kidding. All my child's for the costs. Oh, I love that. Covered by his bits. My fucking bits.

Bits pay the bills. Let's talk more about Dead Poets Society. Yeah. What is that? It's kidding. He fucking rips out the page. No.

Carpe die. And then they paddle his ass. Yeah. That was funny if the principal paddled Robin Williams. Oh. That's a different kind of story. My guess is they're leaving it downstairs. Don't worry.

It's fine. I just ordered. because I know I'm going to have to go pick up my daughter after this. I guess. Oh, should we talk about this, Griffin? I'm good. Yeah. Copa Diem does feel like it does not become a thing that anyone can say in any conversation

and is understood without that movie, with this movie, right? Like, it does feel like even if people don't know that it's from Dead Poet Society anymore. Well, Griffin, it's Latin. It's right. It's, of course, from Horace's Oudes. I'm saying how many Latin phrases can you drop into any conversation without the to translate. Carpe Diem has always been in my life and this movie came out when I was three.

So yes. Maybe it's all just like a basic kind of like frat boy level like Carpe. Mother fucking Diem like the fact that you can just. Do you think it's funny that Robert John Leonard wants to be an actor? This school of course. This school doesn't have drama. No. So it's like he doesn't get to do a school play.

He has to do like local theater. No, it's a girl school. It isn't the girls' school? Yeah, so sometimes the schools will... That is something my school. They say it's like 10-marries or something. Okay, all right, all right. Because I think that's when they meet all the girls at the dance, right?

And from there. Laura Walters. Both basically cut out of the film. But Lorfflin Boyle is one of the actresses in the play. Yeah. Oh, totally knows that. He plays puck. I played puck.

Oh, you have puck energy. Thank you. Yeah. I don't take a thing. Was he a grumpy puck? Oh, was he a grumpy puck? Yeah. Me?

What? You just told all the characters to get along with it? Whatever. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was like, yeah, yeah, a fucking girdle around the earth, 20 minutes. What do you always say? What do you want for me? Wait, how old were you in playing puck?

I was like 14, maybe, yeah, 14 or 15. Are you a good actor? No, no, very bad. Me either. I had a sparkly... I had this, like, sparkly sweater. David seems to lead cast of next feature. Yeah, you're gonna do mid-summer.

Do me monologue. No, you know, I'm a bad actor. I'm a bad actor. I like drama because I like theater and I like Shakespeare and I like, you know, like, I dug the class and all that. Like, I did it entirely in school, but I just, you know, as Griffin knows, I sort of, I, there,

my, I don't have a performance drive that engages enough or something, I just would kind of, I mean, I don't know, I think I, I wasn't like blowing my lines. I think I was just kind of flat. Yeah, it was just kind of whatever. You have pretty severe stage anxiety, if not stage fright. But then, I think we, when we were kind of, I just don't like it.

Well, this is the bigger thing. It's not like some people were like true, people are like having a panic attack or throwing up before they get on a stage. When we started doing live shows and we don't do them often. And it felt like it was a little bit of an uphill battle to get you to do them. I felt like you had more acute anxiety leading up to the first couple. And then there was the moment where Ben and I were like, he's going to get out there and realize like the audience will be happy whatever he says and he's going to get the bug. And I remember you walking off stage one time and being like, yeah, I just feel nothing. Yeah.

It doesn't. Like I feel a relief of the anxiety I had before. but like I guess I don't have the And the thing is, I don't have the sickness Because it's like, it's a sickness to want to do like open mics, right? Because it's like you're punishing yourself. Sure is sick. Because you're going in front of these people who are hostile.

Absolutely. And being like, hey, so here's what's up of my deck. You're broken if you need that. I saw a broken person who needs that. Oh, yeah. And I, and I just really, because I think as listeners know, my first impression of Griffin is and David, the trivia monsters because they're so good.

And he never would win. And the second is as just like a comedian doing VH1 bits. Right, right. So to see you dress as Wadu, I was like, oh, this is his true form. It is. Yeah. Yeah. I just, yeah, it's sort of like.

But it speaks to that exact, what is broken inside me that I have to put on a Wado costume? Right. Like, whatever rush, I should be, visceral rush, I should be getting from performing. I think I'm not getting it. Yeah. That would drive me to want to do it lots more. Ben, what are you going to say? We just got, though, say that you are really great.

It's very nice of you. I think I'm totally fine. Performing in front of fans of blank checks, who are obviously a warm audience. But no, but you do come alive doing it, and then you just walk off and you're like, huh, so you guys like love doing that? I'm not dismissive at all, to be clear.

I don't want it to sound like I am. We always get feedback where people are like, David's so great. Yeah. He's so good life. But that's, that means your mental hygiene must be really good. Yeah, he's the most normal man alive.

Yeah, like, wait a second. There's plenty wrong up here. Let me open my fifth spreadsheet. That's where it's all you're like. It is another, like, I just think, like, masterfully realized and judge sequences in this movie is Robert Sean Leonard after the play backstage. And just a series of, like, very kind of understated moments of just that feeling of, oh, my God, I found my thing. He's, and I, that is played out entirely on this kid's face. He's really good before, too, when he's.

He's nervous and he knows his dad's out there and you can see him like, again, just on his face, like, should I just fucking not do this? And you also hope that it's like the dad's going to come up from me like, I was wrong son. What you did out there was mad. I want to put my foot in your critics ass. Yeah. Sister act too, you know? Right. It's like you think maybe. Yeah.

You want it to be a school of rock moment where they're all like, we were wrong. We get it. You have to do this. Yeah. And yeah, the fact that he has this sort of like private. it moment backstage, not even with the rest of the cast who are all complimenting it, but then he like goes into the blind spot behind the curtain and just kind of like takes a breath in.

And it's just like you're like, this guy feels complete for the first time in his entire life. And he knew it from the moment he auditioned that there was something there. Yeah. But having completed it so successfully, you're like. And thinking also maybe, maybe my dad's, I'm showing my dad and now he's seen me. He's in that one moment of maybe. Yeah, because then he has, but then he's like, oh, your dad's. one is back there and he has a moment where he's like maybe oh fuck he comes around yeah he comes around

the curtain and he looks and his dad is still just standing against the back wall and the audience is basically emptied out and it's like oh my god he's here yeah he stayed through it he's waiting to talk to me yeah isn't correct me if I'm wrong because I only seen the movie once in the last 25 years or whatever it's like Kerwood smith's character it's like they're not old money like some of these no correct he's successful he's like a doctor or something but he grew up kind of poor it's implied that's right but he grew up kind of poor it's implied And so he has a little bit of the kind of like, you cannot be fucking around.

He keeps saying, we don't have the kind of money. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the suicide scene is like, I mean, it's very like tastefully done by we or whatever, but the mom saying he's okay is like very upsetting. The whole thing is awful. And Crood Smith's response at the same time.

Right. I don't like that he kills himself because I don't think he should have done that. No, it just feels like. You cast judgment. I don't. quite know if the movie earns it. I have a similar feeling. It's like, why did he do it?

His dad wouldn't let him act. I'm just like, I don't think we got there, guys. And it more feels like the movie just had to have an ending that was sad. And then Ethan Hawks crying the snow. I was just wanted more, because I think part of, and I understand where telling Wilson not to do, like, the whole, not to lead up to the suicide, not to have that. don't play that over your head. I think I needed. And also to be fair, like, you know, I mean

I went to, wait, did you want to remember you too? I didn't. I dropped out of Calors. Okay, beautiful. Went to Nanyu, and like, when I was there, someone killed themselves in Boops in the library before you could jump over them into the lobby. Kind of infamous. Yeah. And several people had done that. And, you know,

and, you know, so. Of course, people get suicide for them. No, but the way people have talked about them was like, oh, they seemed like I'd never expected. But I think in the context of a film, obviously the point is emotional legibility, unless you're making head a gobbler. And it's like...

If you're making, you know, someone's going to fucking do something. Everyone needs to die. But, you know, I just felt like it didn't, the math wasn't completely mathing. Yeah. I think I, in rewatching it, thought

I was going to reject it feeling like too much of a push narratively. It went more smoothly. I bought it more than I was expecting to. It's mostly because it's so well done. It's mostly because he makes the sequence kind of dreamlike. And I think by giving it that space and making it largely wordless and making it feel kind of like weirdly magical, right? Yeah. There is this sense of and I think it's what you're talking about with like how many college

suicides there are. And even like at places like this at boarding schools like this. I think these places that are this like high pressure concentration of energy about your future. We are preparing you for your future. We are trying to break you down to be able to accomplish great things. It's a very like combustible kind of potion. They're brewing of like you're making people think so much about the pressure of this moment as a fulcrum point, as in a series of fulcrum points. to be able to unlock the future you want or not.

And is it the future you want or is it the future you were told you need to pursue or whatever it is, right? And I think you do get young people under tremendous amount of pressure who just like break on a bad night. Yeah. Not it being the end result of years of suicidal ideation, but this feeling of, you know, I think it is, there is a narrative convenience to it. Just by a little bit, but I think what it sells fairly well that I just buy enough is that like the high, high and the low low is so close together. Right. It's like messing with this teenage calibration. Exactly.

And his dad's like you're going to go to here. That it's like a manic cycle of just like I have just found myself for one solitary moment. I'm immediately told that door is closed. It is impossible. And in that moment, it's, you know, what you hear about a lot with teen suicide is just like. Like, you wish you could tell them that, like, you will get past this, right? That this is like a bad night, that this is not the rest of my life. Keating says, well, you're 218, you can do whatever you want.

Totally. And so, and I think that was the one line for me where I was like, oh, because again, like not, like almost like forgetting what was coming. I'm like, oh, yeah, he'll do that. But he's fighting so hard. You don't know my dad. You don't understand. You don't understand. Keating's like, no, truly trust me, trust me, just say it.

Yeah. He'll see it. And when he's been told that, he wants to believe that. Yeah. He feels such a sense of euphoria. from the performance and then his dad comes down. Right.

So that's the thing that makes sense. And in a way that's not even vindictive as much as just like, this is fucking reality. We can't afford this. We don't have generational wealth. You need to keep this up. There are no other choices.

The house is too big for him to be gone on like that place. I agree. That's the thing that also is a little bit confusing for the dad's math where I'm like, because my dad's sinister similar. We haven't spoken in many years. But it's like the logic is less about like, Like, it's all about his trauma.

Exactly. And his inability to feel. That's the whole thing. And I think the moment where he talks his mom and his mom's like, sorry. You're just like, oh, like he just really feels alone. Well, Kurt Wood Smith's like, I had it rough. And this is what I had to do to become successful. And the proper way for me to parent you is to do that as well rather than being like,

I went through that to be able to give you a better, more supportive life. Yeah. Right, where you do have options and autonomy. I also think it is such a good choice that, like, Hurwood Smith has his, like, sort of, like, complete immediate breakdown at, like, my son, my son, my son. And then his wife comes in and is in absolute denial at it, and he starts yelling at her. Yeah. Right?

He lashes out at her and anger. He shows genuine vulnerability. But it's a very, very honest moment. Exactly. There's genuine vulnerability and guilt when he sees his son's body. And then when his wife comes in and starts reacting emotionally, he's stop it stop it yeah like it's that guy it's control he's like she does not have the emotional freedom to be able to really help any of the people in his life even at his absolute lowest moment yeah yeah

i love the the way because i you know you always think with like suicide teens like okay then he finds a gun then it's gonna be boom you hear the gunshot and the fact that there's no gunshot he just wakes up oh my god another excellent yeah i mean and then he and then he walks around that's what weird knows just to pull back yep like you know, and that's why this movie works. Yeah. I agree. Are you coming around, too?

I look, this is, I gave it three stars on Lenderbucks. And that was the rating I had. Yeah. Like, where I was just like, this is a movie that totally works for me. I just think it kind of undeniably works. David? Yes. You look like a man who doesn't know that fast-growing trees is America's largest

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Can we have a letterbox moment? Please. Okay. So I don't want to say this. We can always cut it down. Okay. I have a secret letterbox. Hell of yes.

I just started it because Max, Minghella was like, you need to do it. It's at poll for you. I'm not telling anyone. No, no, no. I'm not letting any of my friends know because then people might find clues and, you know, stressful. But I have an experience where I rated a film two stars, but then I also put,

who like it. Have you done this? I think that is a very, like, good way to think about letter. Because people get very tied up on letterbox. Well, what should my ratings scale be? Or do I just not do ratings? And I just do hearts. And I'm like, two stars and alike, that's a kind of movie.

that I have in my... Absolutely. You know what I mean? Deep Blue C is probably a two-star and a like movie. Deep Blue C is a perfect example. Our friend Ben David Grimski. I cannot defend a second of that movie. Our friend is Ben David Grubensky.

He goes five stars or nothing. Oh. Well, I basically do that. I now only get a star rating. But Ben David does that too. Or if I really think of thing, stinky poopoo and I want to make a statement with a one. And that's usually I'm like, this movie is like cynical, like end of culture. Yeah.

Yeah. But I used to do more starring. Now I'm just like, I give it five stars if I'm like, I'm officially ready to say I think this is a perfect masterpiece. Officially, what the fuck am I talking about? But otherwise, it's a binary like heart or no heart. Sure, sure. And I'm just like, and it used to be like, heart means I love it. Now I'm like, heart means I like it.

Yeah. If I'm like positive. Positive, yeah. Yeah, I think we have to step. I think especially with like review aggregators, which are so upsetting. I just feel like ratings mean less and less. like reviews are so much more interesting than like yeah i don't give grades as a critic because the atlantic doesn't do that yeah i worked somewhere else like that did that i guess but people

don't really do that much anymore yeah no because it's it's it's weird to be like to but i love my litter box star ratings and i love how mad they make people not famous people or important people yeah but weird nerds who are like well he gave three stars to this and then you know i also see that he've been you're viewed it again went down half a story and i'm just like I see how I'm as mad as David Ehrlich's reviews makes people because that is the fuck. Like, he cracks me up. Do you know what's so funny is that people get so mad and they're like, this guy fucking sucks. His opinions suck.

And then when he swings in and is like one battle after another five stars, people are like, we're cooking. We're so back. Erlich likes it. Like Ham Matt, yeah, yeah. But he likes the movie you're excited about. Suddenly his opinion means a lot. The weird thing that they'll do with him is they're like, well, he didn't like it. That means I'll like it.

Because he didn't like another movie I liked. Right. Yeah, I have a reviewer that's like that for me where I'm like, I love the reviews, but I... Name name name. Can you bleep it? Yeah, we'll leave it. Oh, yeah. He's the best example.

He's like... I love his reviews, but like... He rated, um... Sleep this movie as well. Really highly. And I was like, that's one of the worst films I've seen. And... I would say that...

Well, I can't talk about this. Yeah, no. Yeah, yeah. Leave the whole thing, yeah. But here's like a very specific example. to you, right? I'd never seen the Annabelle movies. Mm-hmm.

I'm like, I should fucking watch the Annabelle movies. Yeah. The first Annabelle movie... I saw you logging it. The first one is... It's such absolute dog shit. It is astonishing how bad it is, right? Then the second one is, like, one of the best, like...

That's one set in the past, right? It's very good. The one with Anthony La Polly. Right, and I was just sort of like, oh, this one's, like resetting the table and just ignoring the first one. And then the last 20 minutes, it finds a way to tie back into everything that was bad in the first one, but make it good retroactively. It's a very solid movie.

And I was like, holy shit. Heart. Isn't that the best kind of surprise when you're... It's like when I watched The Conjuring for the first time. It's David Sandberg. You know, who rules? Yeah, good director. So I watch that.

Annabelle creation. Yeah. Then I go see your movie head up. Right? And then I'm like, yeah, loved it. Heart. And then I go home and I'm like... Time for Annabel to come home.

And I'm like, yeah, pretty good. Heart. And then I'm like looking at it and I'm like, does this look weirdly? Is that about... I don't think I've seen her come home. Me either. I think it's quite good. Oh, I want to watch that.

But I'm like, if you were like two junkie horror sequel that I'm giving hearts and a sandwich around a movie that our friend made, am I like being rude to Hedda or devaluing that or whatever? I'm just like, my answer is I watched three Annabelle movies. I know have a sliding scale of Annabelle movies. And I'm like, two of these are good at the assignment of making Annabelle. Yeah. And because the first one is so bad, I'm like giving the other two positive reviews. Also, Annabel and Heda are both two women who are in a world that has boxed them in. Annabel is literally in a doll.

Sitting in chairs causing chaos. Exactly. Sitting in chairs in beautiful dresses causing chaos. So I get it. The real area, Annabelle's just a fucking raggedy.

Do you know this? I know. I know. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And then you see the guy who died. Yeah. And then they were like,

we found out the cause of death. Cardiac event. And I'm like, fucking Annabelle event is what that was. Cotton in his mouth. Exactly. You shouldn't have been touching that doll. They're fucking stitched up.

Dude, the whole thing is. And Matt Rife bought the dog. Yeah, Matt Rife bought the fucking Warren house. Matt Rife owns Annabelle. I hope Annabel, you know. He's too powerful. He's giving tours of the fucking Annabelle house. Anyway, I think both of the Annabelle sequels are good.

Fair enough. Yeah. I haven't seen Annabel come home and I haven't seen the curse of. I'm halfway through that. I watched that on a plane once. I always mess up the pronunciation. Here's what Annabel comes home does that is smart. Here's what Annabel comes home that says smart.

He says we get ready to wrap up on Dead Poets Society. Patrick Wilson-Virfamiga are back in it as the Warren's. But they're only at the beginning and the end. Yeah. And the movie is basically their young daughter, who's McKenna Grace. It's her birthday. And they're like, oh, but we got called in to do some demonic thing. We're sorry we're missing your birthday.

We have a babysitter who's going to watch you. And teen girl watching McKenna Grace sound. Oh, I have seen this. Yes. And is like struggling with being seen as like the creepy girl, right? Invites her friend over to help babysit with her. Yeah. And her friend is like, oh, the house with all the creepy.

creepy shit and she starts fucking with stuff. And then the movie is basically like a haunted house movie set in the Warren house when they're not there. And then we get Vera sometimes being like, something's happening. Very beginning, very end. The superstructure of the movie is basically

what if two teenagers are stuck in the Warren house without them there. And they're like, what's this bowling ball? And it's like, no, that bowling ball killed eight people in Delaware. Because the problem with Annabelle is Annabelle doesn't come to life. She doesn't move. She sits in a chair and the bad shit happens. It's crazy they made

three Annabelle movies without... They clearly knew there was not a third movie worth of Annabelle shit, so they were like, put her back in the house and then everything in the house can go wrong. Yeah, yeah. It's smart. I guess I haven't seen the Nunn, too. The nuns are my next. I'd never watched any of the spin-offs.

Yeah. I was a main-largely... The Conjuring, nothing has met the Conjuring. I agree. The Conjuring to me is, like, one of the best four films that have come out. It's so good. I wish Juan had come back and done three. He's so good. He's so good.

He's so good. You mean done three or done four? Well, both. But it felt like they didn't make three for so long and started making all the spinoffs because they were like, he's really busy and he wants to come back eventually. And then it was like he's never coming back. Is it because he was doing Aquaman? Malignant. I mean, I love that he did Malignant.

Like, malignant rocks. I, yeah, I had so many emotions watching that film. I love that. That picture. Yeah. So he did Carpe Diem. He ripped the pages out. Yeah.

What are some other moments that we like? I like when they kick the ball and they have to quote lines of poetry. I think that's really fun. I like the Yop scene where the camera's spinning around them. And it's such a great way to just like the energy of it's so good. I love when Ethan Hawk has to say one sentence and that's its entire plot. Someone said to me before I started watching it, they were like, yeah, it's interesting

because basically Ethan Hawks the lead of the film. And I watch it and I was like, he's not less than Robin. Yeah, he's important. He's off-line. He's kind of the passive POV character in a weird way. I mean, it's sort of crucial that at the end, he's the one saying to him, like, they made a sign that, like, you know. He's like the silent-up captain. You're just kind of pinning throughout the whole movie, and then he doesn't really come alive until the end.

What kind of, like, reference do you think Keating's getting out the door for his next? Next? Yeah. He's going back to England where they don't have internet. Like to a paddling. I know we made jokes, but can we talk about the Josh Charles thing a little bit? Because as you said, each of the kids has, like, a thing they need to self-actualize. It, like, really does not play well today.

I'm not even saying this with, like, modern, like, you know, politics. You're just like, it is kind of just, like, such a creepy movie construction. It is what our friend Chris Gether calls an ultimate, but I like her plot. Alexandra Powers is the actress playing. Who's very pretty. Chris and has become a Scientologist. Oh, is that right. Her Wikipedia is just like, and then in 2010, she figured it out by becoming a Scientologist.

I did see this, yes. It has a section of like, and then everything got figured out. Listen, life's hard, man. You got to, sometimes you got to just... You got to carpet the deal. You need something to help you shoulder the weight of the meaningless universe. But Getherd's point was basically, for decades, many, many movies could get away with... If a nice boy cares really deeply, his crush is very genuine.

Right, he's not threatening. He's just Charles. But I like her. You just stay with it until she finally gives in. Yeah. And it's, like, rewarded for it. So upset. And then the story just kind of drops.

Look, I think he's good in this and he's sweet and he's charming. And you're like, the behavior is so bizarre. He's selling it in a way where you're like not, you're almost falling for it. But she like answers a door. And he's like, that is the love of my life. And people are like, okay, can't go off? Yeah. And then he's just like, truly I'm not giving up on this.

And they're like, she's got a boyfriend. She's setting boundaries. She said, no, thank you. She said, don't come to my school. And she's like, yeah, she said, no, thank you for. Now. Exactly. You know this character in SWAT was called?

What? T.J. McCabe. Cool. That's great. High school parties are, they have that specific thing where people make out just publicly in front of everyone. Sure. And that only kind of, I feel like, last for a little. By college, it's like in a room.

Yeah, exactly. It is just so funny to me that the construction of these types of plot lines is so often, oh, sweet, sensitive, nice boys, self-insert for screenwriter, has crush on beautiful, unattainable girls. who is dating like meathead, sort of like emotionally unbalanced jock, right? Is this something that is common in life in the time period? Yeah. It's just like that's so many stories. I think it is the way that a certain type of person who is very prone to becoming a screenwriter likes to reframe their experiences.

I'm not being liked. Yes. She's trapped by that hot guy. Or make the kind of revisionist history of like, and this is how I wish it had turned out. Yeah. But it is always kind of pinging on this moment. of the guy lashes out and beats the shit out of the nice boy

and that's the moment that makes her wake up from his spell right? And then has to sort of like Florence Nightingale tend to him and be like, he's so awful, I can't believe it and see it. Because no one in the movies can ever put a bandit on by themselves. Right. It is so crazy that the version of that that happens in this movie

is a moment where Josh Charles is empirically in the wrong. Yeah. That the thing that makes the guy punch him in the face is actually valid. She's passed out on a couch and he's stroking. her face and kiss her forehead. Where I'm like, even if I did, there was no background, if this is their first time seeing this guy, it'd be like, who the fuck are you?

Yeah. Yeah. And because she's also like, yuck. Yes. She wakes up and is freaked out and he's just like, but, but. But I like you. What if you come see a play with me? Yeah, exactly.

And she's like, I guess I'm going to see the play. You're like, it's very, but no one has really significant. Nawanda, again, my baby girl. Love, love Nwanda. he's the one who I'm most impressed by and then he disappears because he gets... It's interesting because he's right.

He's the defiant one who's like we got to do all this and we got to have depot society and all that. That Robin moment is good too when he comes back in. He's like expecting to get like applause. Oh yeah. Yeah. And he's just like, no, dumb.

Don't get kicked out. Like then all of this was for nothing. Exactly. And he's... No wonder is the one who gets... His name's Charlie. I'm sorry. Charlie.

It's paddled. And I do think the paddling scene is good because it's so ineffectual and yet also horrible. Like it's like on the one hand, this kid's getting beaten by his teacher. Yeah. Institutional. The other hand, it's just so weird. It's just like this grown kid like across the knees of an old man who's got this like, it's just. Also watching him to see how painful it is.

Just like it's dark. But I also think it's good character construction for Keating that he's just like, no, I'm not telling you to just like fuck everything up. Like I still want you to look. learn shit. Yeah. If you get kicked out of this school, no one's benefiting and I'll get fired,

you know? And it's the part of him that you could see so quickly blaming himself, at least partially for, uh, the, the suicide.

Yeah. Because it's like, I'm trying to push them just up to the line without breaking them. Yeah. Look, the end is,

it's, my captain. It pays out like a sloppage. I, I, I couldn't believe it. It is just incredibly effective. Thank you,

boy, man. So good. Well, Whitman, the best. Mr. Whitman. Of course, O'Capt to my captain is actually about Abraham Lincoln, as Robin, as Keating says, in the movie. I have that I'm the Marvel movie that I made, oh, Captain, my Captain. I forgot. Wait.

Well, unless they caught it. Did you not go to? No, I, I just, I just, I just been so. Yeah, that she's like, zooming around, like, killing all these Cree in these ships. And then she goes, oh, Captain, my Captain. And then we whip pan over to Monica. And she's like, are you good? girl like you're crazy yeah it was it was funny but we had a whole anyway um you had a scene where

all the all the creed got up on her chair i was the joke i was gonna make the creed get on their desk they get on their desk yeah hey have fun with that big thank you so much it's yours that's your take home gift people forget this film one best picture at the british the baptist yeah it also won best foreign film at the caesar and the italian i forget what's called davy did donatello yes Like this was kind of the most respected American film in Europe. Do you think it's because of the suicide? Partially. Yeah, come on.

I think it's also because it's like a movie about like the power of poetry. It's a very romantic film about culture. Did it lose Best Picture 2? What year is this? 1989. So this is the year after Rain Man. It loses Best Picture 2. dances with wolves?

Nope, that's the year after. Fuck. Oh, that was my guess. What's the thing in between? It's not the most memorable best picture winner. It's, uh, oh. Hmm. It is,

you've watched them all. I have not. To date, it is the worst best picture winner I have seen. Oh, it's not even close to the worst I have seen. It's not a very good thing. Try Miss Daisy. Oh, um, yes,

I was confounded by watching it for the first time last year. Mm. Really? I just think that movie is nothing. It's not. It's not nothing. It's fine. I think it's nothing.

I was expected to be more like outrage by it while also being like, oh, but it's like a manipulative. It kind of works. And I was just like, this movie's like just a, it just feels so slight to me. It's pretty slight. I mean, this is my stage play.

My crazy tag. Green Book is better than Driving Misty. I have Dream Book 1 above Driving Mistays in the best picture list. So crazy. Yeah. No, Jeremy's Day is not very good. It's the year that

born on the 4th of July is sort of the frontrunner and wins best director and then driving with Stacey I guess it's the little movie that could for whatever reason But it's also obviously forever the year that is defined by not nominating

Do the Right Thing. Do the Right Thing is obviously resigned to supporting actor and screenplay but it's also, it's like three of the other nominees are my left foot inspirational true story drama Dead Poet Society, inspirational quasi true story drama

and then Field of Dreams made up inspirational Wait, Field of Dreams. is an Oscar Nominidad Don't you come in my house and come at Field of Dreams After defending

Dead Poet Society Which is, You know what it is I think I saw that movie At a time where a lot of those baseball Men in Cornfield movies were out Yes Or at least the collection of them

Exactly Sure And so they all sort of are the same in my head Because I've not seen them since the 90s Field of Dreams is Is it amazing? It's pretty. Pretty, it's one of those movies that you're just like, this should not work.

It's like Bull Durham. I'm kidding. I love Bull Durham. It's the flip side, which is like, baseball is fucking horny. And we're all this here for fuck. Bull Durham's just like straight up the best movie. The other dreams is just like, I miss my dad. I think I need to build a cornfield to summon the ghosts of the Chicago black socks.

That's what I thought. Field the dreams is like Ratatooie where if you like lay out the plot, you're like, are you insane? What do you mean that's your idea? The other dreams, though, it's about, like, the sort of the boomer dream, like, coming, you know, where the boomers are like, what? What? I'm a grown up now. What the fuck? You know. We're forgetting another inspiring film, of course, Major League one and two. Very inspiring. Let's go win this fucking thing. I love, I love the one and two of it all. Yes. You learn. Let's have some fun. Play baseball. Those are great movies. Williams loses to Daniel Day Lewis. Williams was just Daniel DeLuis. Supporting. There's no nominees for support. I know, but I'm saying I. I love rewatching the fucking Siskel Niebuhr Oscar specials. And it's a big thing that whole season where they're just like, and by the way, it is insane category fraud that Robin is in. They were just banging that.

Who won best supporting that year? Denzel Washington won best supporting actor for glory. Okay, so he wasn't going to beat Denzel. No. Wait, who was? Oh, Robin? No. I want to do the mental exercise.

You've also got Martin Lando and crimes of misdemeanors, which is an incredible before. Oh, so it wouldn't have mattered. And Danny Dieland do the right thing, which is an incredible. wanted to do the mental exercise. No. To me, it is a lead performance in that same way as Hannibal Lecter where it's like, it is spiritually

in the entire movie. He is the focus of the movie in this weird way. It's like, it's not a supporting performance. I think it's a supporting performance. I think Lector, I agree with you a Lector being lead. Who would be the lead of the movie?

The movie is actually in my opinion. No. David made the stinky poop. No. And Brenda Fricker won best supporting actress for my left foot, which is a lovely performance and she's a wonderful actor. And Tandy, when's actress. It's an odd,

you know, and Jessica and Tandy, of course wins this actress. Um, and this, the, uh, Dead Poet Society filled with ladies, uh, lead roles. No, I mean, there was, uh, but Dead Poet Society does win best writing, screenplay written directly for the screen over. Take a, listen to this. Okay. So, listen to who

this is why you're mad. It beats, listen to me. Listen to me. Crimes and misdemeanors would he out. Yeah. Say what you will. One of his best. Perhaps it's best for... Do the right thing by Spike Lee. Sex Lies and Videotaped by Steven Sutterberg. And when Harry met Sally by Nora Fron... What the actual block?

It is by far the worst number. I agree. Not even close. It's a piece of shit. I get your eye or at the screenplay. It is fucking bananas. Yeah. Any of those wins would be great.

Yeah. Any of those ones... I mean, Woody Allen would be kind of like he has enough Oscars. Yeah, that's crazy. But I mean, Spike Lee, Steven Sutterberg, Nora. It's crazy. That is crazy. And obviously...

That's the thing. Yeah. I think at the time, it's sort of like, oh, well, they're all up and coming, but guess who else was up and coming? The fucking eight heads and a duffel bag guy. It's like up and came to nothing. It ends up being like, fright.

Okay, easy. Easy. The anointment is almost like a death sentence for Shulman, whereas everyone else. I mean, obviously he had a totally solid Hollywood career, but it's just nuts to look at that list. Yeah. Just like, what?

That is crazy. And it is, 89 Oscars is the most, like, Gas League Oscars because they're like, No, I think I feel the driver of this thing. You know, like, they're watching cinema change around them. And they're like, no, no, no, no, let me hold this close. Who directed driving Lestasy? Of course, Bruce Barris.

And it was infamously, at the time, one of the only examples of a movie winning best picture without a best director nomination. Bruce Beresford, which speaks to the, like, even the attitude of that movie at the time. Yeah. It's sort of like, he was a good director. Breaker Morant's a great movie. Tender Mercies is an amazing movie. Crimes of the Heart is all right. I like his pre-driving Miss Daisy.

Exactly. And then he kind of became more of like a Hollywood hack in the 90s. Mr. Church is like one of the worst things I've ever seen. Double Jeopardy he directed. Not bad. Yeah. Is that one of the Ashley Judds? Oh, I love the Ashley Judds of the 90s. If you were Ashley Judd in the 90s, your husband was always trying to kill you.

Yeah, girl, good luck. You're the star of the movie, but you better. Yeah, on a swivel. This film came out June 9th, 1989. In the summer. A somewhat limited release, 600 screens, so it's opening at number three, $7.5 million, which is an amazing per screen average. How many screens? And it ends up at like 101 domestic?

It made domestically, come on the numbers, 95 and worldwide 239. It was, I think worldwide it was the fifth biggest movie of the year. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. And it is crazy that came out in summer because this is like the most fall, wintery movie. But it ran and ran. The true dominance of 90s, Robin.

Williams is you have these like huge hits that are like of course that's what robin does like aladdin and like uh doubtfire and bird cage is jack black the air to robin williams right now it's a fair in the sense of like i mean i watched um a minecraft movie on the plane and i feel like i run on the the thing that you hate that movie so much with a deep passion or did you like it yeah i did not i did not like it i kind of enjoyed that i found it very loud yeah um the plane was louder so I think Jack Black is one of those guys where it's like even the sort of silliest nothing, he's... He really...

We have been talking about this. Yeah. Minecraft does feel like the moment where you're like, it is undeniable, he is the greatest family comedy star of all time. Yeah. He certainly is the most dominant of all time. Where you're basically like from the School of Rock and... But Robin Williams is a good comp in terms of that kind of like family live action star who made tons of money. I think the difference...

I guess he doesn't have the drama. Not as much. He's done some. Right. I think what happened with Jack Black is obviously, like, cool, edgy comedy guy, right? Then, like, makes surprisingly crossover success into family comedy star. Surprising in a way that retroactively makes perfect sense, right? And then he, like, does some things like Margot at the wedding where he's, like, trying to stretch himself more. The holiday? No. But it's like, right, those things don't go over well at the time.

His adult comedies start bombing. And he's like, I guess the only zone I play in is, like, family comedy star. So he like doubles down on that while doing his YouTube videos and tenacious D. He does YouTube video? Jables. Oh, man. I don't do the YouTube. Um, but yes, he like just really was like as a movie actor, my career is family comedies and I'm going to embrace this and he never fucking phones it in. Yeah.

And if you zoom out, you're just like the guy's basically untouched for like a 25 year run. Yeah. And he means like as much to my little like six year old cousin as he did to like my sister when she was six. Yeah. And to me and whatever, whereas Robin Williams, it's like, by the time you get to the 2000s, the family movies don't work anymore. Yeah. The 90s were his sweet spot for that. Yeah.

I would like to see Jack Black be able to, like, find his dead poet society, goodwill hunting. The school of rock is his dead poet society, but like maybe an even more dramatic version of it. But the way we were talking about Robin Williams, they found these movies that weren't, like, playing against his comedy. Yeah. But they re contextualized it and, like, pulled. He needs, like, a Peter. we were someone to pull the sadness.

I have to tell you that maybe it's you. Disney was freaked out about the title and they almost called the movie the unforgettable Mr. Keating. Well, fuck that's so hard. And they also registered

Keating's way, which is even, that's like nobody's gonna want to see that. That's horrifying. Cutter's Way was pretty recent. That's true. But we were, was like, this is an accessible movie.

Like, they're freaking out about nothing and it starts to test and they got like insane scores and they essentially were like, oh shit, you know. So they moved it right to the middle of summer. It is one of those movies where the ending is so fucking strong that people are going to be coming out of the theater pumping their fucking fist. And this is an era where like word of mouth could really make a movie a hit

over a sustained period of time. Oh, I thought Ben was going to punch you again. He's getting me a sour patch kid. And you're pointing out the screenplay Oscar win. It's just like it does feel like this movie was so huge. They had to give it something. I think a little bit. But I also, yeah, I think all the other movies we listed are, we're challenging, and this is not as challenging a movie.

Now, number one at the box office, though, June 9th, 1989. Now, wait. What? What's going on? Apparently, it opened on eight screens the week before, which is not even listed on the numbers. Do you want to do that one? We've done the October. Yes.

Let's do the eight. Not same movies, number one? June 9th one is, by the way, Star Trek Five, the Final Frontiers opening week. Got it. That's why we've done. Okay. So the week of before, June 2nd. Let's do this.

Number one at the box office is a big sequel that we've covered on this podcast. A great move. In 1989, it's a great film, says David. It's a lot of fun. Lots of fun. Been out for two weeks. It's made $77 million. It's not Die Hard 2.

No. I don't like that movie. I know. That's why I'm surprised. But it's not that. I'm surprised at the version of you I created my mind. It's a huge, huge franchise. It's a huge franchise.

Is it a 2? Three. It's a 3. And for a long time, was the last, but they made two cents. Is it the, um, the Beverly Hills cop person? Is that?

Good, guys. Nope. We covered it on a main feeder, Patreon. Main feed. We covered on main, and we cover all of them? It's not. We've covered four.

Oh, it's, fuck. I was gonna guess it's, we had not covered the fifth. I was gonna guess it's beyond Thunderdome, but now I, there's been one since. It's made 77 million dollars in two weeks.

It's a huge hit. There's been one since that we haven't covered. Yeah. Is that where you're telling me, the most recent one we have not covered the fifth. Is it Ghostbusters 2? No, you wouldn't call that a great film. It's a third.

It's an 89 film. It's a third. Come on. Come on. Is it like a, is it one of my franchises? You love this movie. This is your favorite of this franchise. Oh, wow.

This is favorite of a franchise? It's a three. And then there was a big gap and we did four, but we didn't do five. And are they all the same director? No, the first four. That's why we've done those four. What the fuck? You're going to be so mad at yourself.

Is it like based around a character? Yeah. Fuck. Wow. What is it? Yeah, I'm thinking too. It's not mad max. It's not like and it's the fucking.

Oh my God. Everyone's screaming at us right now. Yeah, absolutely. It's crazy. It's a big ass hit. Yeah. Probably the biggest movie in 1990. Oh, oh.

Oh, God. It's Indiana Jones in the last crusade. Wow. Indiana Jones and the last crusade. Everyone's right to be angry at me for that one. Especially the clue of like, director did four, but not the film. I know, I know.

Number two at the box office is new this week. It is an action film starring a sort of a sports entertainer, I would call him. Is it a wrestler? Yes, and he recently left this mortal coil. Is it suburban commander? It is not that. But I have the rest of it. actor, I believe. I believe that is a

Hulk Hogan film. Is it no Holds Bar? It is no. That was his real debut Starved Vann. Correct. No Ring, no Ref, no rules. Obviously, his debut is, what, Rocky 3? But this is a wrestling movie in which he is the lead fighting Zeus tiny listener. Yeah, I've never seen it. I have no idea if it's good, but I'm going to guess. We just let people do whatever they wanted then, didn't we?

It sure did. We used to be a proper country. But what I like is back then. We used to let Hulk Hogan do whatever he wanted. But if you're like, oh, Hulk Hogan, you want to be in a movie, your movie will cost like $8 million. It's like it's not going to be a big movie. Sure. You know, it'll be a cheap little action movie, basically. Yeah.

And you'll be playing a wrestler. I mean, you know, it's a version of this that I like? That, like, the first nobody made like $30 million. Totally. And they were like, make a nobody too. Who gives a shit? Doesn't need to make $100 million. That's my favorite thing.

It's cheap and you want to show up. Yeah. We can keep these play on Netflix. Right. There needs to be different scales of success. A thousand percent. Number three. is a comedy

it's not in my opinion we've covered it I think we've not covered it but we've talked about this one before I've discussed it I think it's not good I've not seen it in a franchise no but it's it's a star duo that made four films together this is their third so it's a prior Wilder

it is Richard Pryor Ben's beloved see no evil hear no evil it is yeah a movie that which is the one aging where is Gene Wilder is deaf and Richard Pryor is blind correct yes And they witness a murder And they each only can attest a part of it

Is it the other way around? I think it's the other way around. Didn't they not really get along but they knew that they were great together? But they didn't not get along. They were just like, yeah, we had like no personal relationship. Yeah, yeah. Gene Wilder was like one time we went and saw a movie together

and we like went out to dinner and didn't have anything to talk about but we had the chemistry. What was the fourth? Obviously Silver Street can stir crazy. What's the fourth? The fourth one is another you, which is the true disaster. Pryor's already really sick While Donvich was fired off of it halfway through filming

Oh, Jesus. Yeah. Anyway, so that's number three. Number four is a film I brought up And I was yelling at Nia about recently, like 10 minutes ago. It was nominated for Best Picture. It's one of the most beautiful movies ever made About the Great Sport of Face Ball.

I get wait to watch it again. It does roll. Number five is also new this week. Okay. And it is not a movie I'm that familiar with. It's an, you know, action movie with a couple members of, I guess they were called the Brat Pack. An action movie? Mm-hmm.

It's an action. It's a Brat Pack action movie. That feels so scary. It's not wisdom, is it? No. It is not. I don't even know what that is. Yeah.

Good poll. Wisdom is, oh, as if as a horror. Very nice. Okay, so it's got two bratpackers in it? Yeah. It's not trying to be good, is it? Nope. Action.

I don't know if you're going to know this movie. I've never heard of it. Can you give me the Packers? Keeper Sutherland And Lou Diamond Phillips Oh And the tagline Feels like they could have

Maybe worked hard Yeah This one is The boys are back in town It's not It's not It's not Because that one's got like

Eight Bradpacks I know That is a movie about boys Being back though In town The Young Guns Yeah Yeah I don't know

If I know what this is This film is called Renegates Yeah Can't tell you That I know I know anything else About

I'm sure like 10 people text us And be like I can't believe You guys Haven't seen Renegates

Jack Scholder directed it, who's the guy who made that movie The Hidden, which is a movie I like a lot. Yeah. And he made Nightmare 2, the gay one. Yeah. So he's got cool movies, but I've never heard of this one, really. But it looks like they've got guns and the boys are back in town. Can I make my joke? Please.

I was written by Jack Knee is produced by Jack Toes. Bit Boy. Bit Boy. Number six of the box office is the Eternal Cult legend hit Roadhouse. Sure. Number seven is the film that I've done. I've always described as what if Clint Eastwood played Gene Parmesan, pink Cadillac, where he's like, I'm an investigator, I'm a master of disguise.

And his disguise is like, I'm a yellow hat guy. It puts on a hat. No one will see me coming. Pretty fun movie. I'm holding a finger under my nose like it's a mustache. Number nine is, Ben, what did you think of this movie? K-9? That's Belushi and the dog?

I've never seen it. It's Jim Belushi and the dog, obviously. I feel like it didn't it come up. up with the Patrick Willem's Yes, he did his video There's also a cop and a half Well, no, it's, it's The Turner and Hooch are

And K9 are the same year. The two dog cop partner Buddy movies. Wait, guys, sorry, I just realized I looked at my notes, but I just want to make sure I showed you this picture of Nwanda and Wilson.

Oh my goodness. It's from the fashion. Why didn't they make out? They could have made out. They're so cool. I'm doing that, oh my God, I'm doing that video podcast thing. Oh, terrible.

Where you're like, look at this thing on my phone. Oh, sure. And I can't describe that long. Right, right, right. No, I can see it. I love you. You're like, you're in front of me.

I can see it. That's the mystery though. Text it to me and put on your, whatever. I'll put on blankies. Yeah, and put it on those. Number nine of the box office is the pet cemetery movie, which is a good movie. The first one. Yes.

Yeah, not the one that was released recently, which is in Clark. Mary Lambert. Yeah. It's a good movie. Yeah. Fun movie of my favorite Stephen King book. And then number 10, Ben. We hit movies, guys.

Major League? Nice. And number 11, just to shout it out, is Rain Man. She's still fucking hanging out six months later. Yeah, I just like that you were like, I did the video podcast thing that no one can see. I just then remembered Ben is wearing a full schoolboy uniform. The amount of energy Ben puts into visual bits. I walked it and I was like, Ben, you look so fancy.

And he was like, yeah, dead poets decided. I was meeting with your counten afterwards. No, it is. Because I sit across with Ben and I record. And you're just always smiling and you're always just like present. And you're something to be seen. He's our beautiful boy. Maybe if you do video, it's just Ben.

Just Ben. That's, I like this. Interesting. That's good. That wouldn't infuriate people at all. I love this. Ben mostly like doing work, you know, like, you know, checking things on the edit. Into bits for other people to describe on.

Exactly. That was so good. It's theater of the minds. It's theater of them. I have to go pick up my daughter. Okay. Enjoy. I have to say humble brag again.

Enjoy your lunch. Nia, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. This is so fun. I'm going to say everyone should watch the Bone Temple and Heda, both of which have now been on VOD. Probably.

For months. But really, really loved Heta. Thank you. And excited to see Bone Temple, which we will have seen talked about in our Patreon at this point. To watch Bone Temple. And then whatever you do next will be so exciting. Hedda really rocked.

I didn't get to see it in the theater. I watched the screener, but I had such a great time. It really affected me where I realized I need to start playing more games with people in my life. No, you should. No, no, don't, don't be. I had a lesson. What?

No, that was my takeaway. Nope. She's not well. Listen, everyone has their own takeaway at the end of the film. It's an ambiguous ending. No, thank you guys. That means a lot. I'm really, I think I emailed you guys.

I was like, I'm so proud of these two movies. I'm so happy. I'm very happy making movies that you can, when we see you be like, I'm excited. It's very, it's very, in the arc of the time since we found. Because you were, like, you were saying, like, at the beginning, like, every time you see me, I've been like, well, like smoking a cigarette You vent all the stuff that we can't say on Mike And I'm like

Yeah I'm like Yeah Always a pleasure Thank you guys And thank you all for listening Please remember to rate review And subscribe

Tune in next week for Yeah great question Green card is next Is that right? I think you're right But I'm just double-checked You finally got to make green card Because of the success of this

Yeah it was a We'll get into it But it was a thing where Schedule is set to wait or whatever But yes Yeah Next is the wonderful, in my opinion, film Green Card. Starring Unproblematic Fave.

There are a dipper do. You know, it was the 90s. Yeah. And as always, Carpe diem, motherfucker. Yeah, rip. Oh, oh, oh. I got to do my Robin vocal warmont. Oh, oh, oh, oh.

Okay, terrible impression coming. Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin. Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas, and our associate producer is A.J. McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by A.J. McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch.

Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit.

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