Blank Check with Griffin & David - Digital Filmmaking with J.D. Amato - Attack Of The Podcast

Episode Date: August 24, 2015

Joining Griffin and David this week is special guest J.D. Amato to discuss the behind-the-scenes making of this film, including, a featurette entitled: “Star Wars State Of The Art: The Pre-Visualization Of Episode II” (found in the initial DVD release of Attack of the Clones.) Together, they examine the process of pre-visualization, why the CGI technology of its time compared even with today’s still makes this film ambitious, the uncanny valley and reasons why most of the special effects didn’t enhance or contribute to the overall story. Though, George tried his best, why did Lucas put himself into a situation where no one could help him or this movie? Why did actors perform to no one in a blue room? Was there ever even a bigger picture or cohesive plan? Find out these answers and more!

🎵 Welcome, welcome, welcome, one and all, to Griffin and David present Attack of the Podcast. Hi Griffin. Hi David. How are you doing? I'm doing alright, how are you? Well I was on vacation last week and I screwed up our recording schedule and we missed a week and I feel bad about it. It actually, it worked out great because I needed that extra day to do more community service to offset the negative energy I put into the world with

our last episode. Our last episode... Donating all my time and money. Our last episode was really embarrassing. But it was actually really fun to listen back to. JD... Our guest is here. We'll introduce him later. Multi-hyphenate JD Amato. We haven't introduced

him yet. We haven't introduced him. But explain to JD. You know in the jinx how it doesn't make... Have you seen the jinx? I've seen the jinx, yeah. So you know how it makes no sense that he stole that sandwich? And you're like, this guy's on the run. Everyone's looking for him.

Yeah. He has $35,000 in a bag or whatever. Yeah, in his car. He doesn't need it. Why did he steal this sandwich? And it's like some part of him was like it was a cry for help. Like he wanted to be caught.

Right. I don't want to talk about this fucking movie anymore. I am so tired of this fucking movie. And I spent the last two weeks analyzing why in our last episode I read large sections, too many sections.

Ben had to cut some out of a history paper I wrote in 10th grade called Back in Blackface or Can You Minstrel Show Me How to Get to Racism Street, which was me trying to tackle the entire issue of representation of African-Americans in the media in only the most inappropriate way possible. And in only the way that a young white male could. Yep. The weirdest thing is that he's still talking about this when he really should let it. I'm explaining male could. Yep. The weirdest thing is that Griffin is still talking about this when he really should let it just

I'm explaining to JD. Okay. I don't want to talk about this anymore. I was trying to you know, we're happy to have you here. We're happy to talk about it. For once I will say and this will tie into everything we're talking about today. I do find myself relating to Georgie Porgy Lucas more

in the wake of that paper. Oh, I see. Because it's the same thing where I thought I was really doing good and taking a good stand. And this week, we're talking about Attack of the Clones, the second Phantom Menace movie from a filmmaking standpoint. J.D. Amato, who we haven't introduced yet.

No, we haven't introduced him. Maybe like 20 minutes from now. 20 minutes from now. He's among many things. One of the finest young filmmakers of his generation. Thank you. Well, I know I have not been introduced yet, but I will say this is not my thank you to you guys. I'll do that once you introduce me. But thank you for having me on the podcast.

Yeah. I'm excited to talk about this movie. Of course. One of the strangest sequels in film history. No question. No question. You get a shot. You make a first movie.

It does really well, but everyone hates it. Yeah. And somehow, you pull it out of the hat, you get a second one. Right. And this is what he does with it.

But this is the point. And there's a lot of criticism out there of this movie. Oh, a lot. A lot of criticism. In some way, even more than with The Phantom Menace, the original Phantom Menace movie. I think Phantom Menace

got more criticism for its characters or specific wrongs, such as Jar Jar or whatever. Whereas this movie was more criticized as a film. Yes, I agree with that. No one really liked it as a piece of cinema at all. But we watched Improbation for this week. Collectively watched a bunch of different documentaries and feature ads and behind the scenes things. Which we probably should have watched to begin with, honestly.

Because it really colored in a lot of the things we've sort of been speculating on for weeks now. Well here's a quick side rant. Go ahead. About the Blu-ray extras. This fucking Blu-ray is infuriating. I don't know. I don't even know what to say. I used to have this on DVD this movie. And then DVD it was like play movie, commentaries,

extras. And the extras you got your deleted scenes, you got your featurett extras, you got your deleted scenes, you got your featurettes, you got your trailers and your interviews. So wait, what's the Blu-ray that you guys have? It's this. It's the complete saga on Blu-ray. So it's the two Star Wars movies.

So it's got episodes one and two. And then it's got like seven bonus content. It's got other discs, so many discs. So many discs. You haven't looked at any of those discs. No, no, no, not at all. There's the one disc I looked at that had the special features for Attack of the Clones. Yeah.

That's the only thing relevant right now. But it's like literally two movies, seven discs of special features. And on the disc. Yeah, it's all these. And there's all these like paintings of like later, you know, these expanded universe characters. These fucking like trading card characters that none of us give a shit about. And, but, so on the Blu-ray. George created a lot of fake characters just for merchandise that don't appear in either of the movies.

It's very strange. Han Solo, all these dumb fucking... Anyway. So on this, the special features are laid out by planet. Yes. But they don't make any sense. No. It's like kind of basically just each planet,

and there's four, gets like a five-minute movie about how they designed it, and that's kind of it. Can I read aloud what the planets are? Yeah. Intense listeners could probably guess. Okay, so Naboo. Naboo.

I think you're looking at episode one right now. No, you're looking at episode two? Naboo is one of the planets. Queen Amidala is from Naboo. Fun fact. Tatooine. You think I don't know she's from Naboo? fun fact aware Tatooine yep Tatooine you think I don't know she's from Naboo

we've been doing this for fucking I'm just joking it was a hilarious joke Coruscant Coruscant Coruscant I always said Coruscant

Coruscant I don't know then Coruscant again then Naboo again then Tatooine again then Geonosis Geonosis there you go

Mighty Geonosis and then it just goes on and on and on. Yeah, there's more written. There's just a lot of stuff in there. It's probably like thanks and liner notes, I don't know. There's a lot of weird paintings. There's a lot of material that I appreciated about how they designed Dexter Jetster.

Oh, really? I think I missed the, oh, no, no, I didn't. A lot of material about the diner itself, too. Yes. The design of the diner. But there were a lot of fucking Blu-ray, 360-degree virtual reality turnarounds of maqu. The design of the diner. But there were like a lot of like fucking like Blu-ray like 360 degree virtual reality

turnarounds of maquettes they made of the creatures but they cut out all these fucking documentaries that were on the original DVD that actually showcased the filmmaking process in depth.

But I think maybe because they sort of highlight the embarrassing problems of the movie. They're all very sad to watch. They are sad to watch. They're like capturing

the Freedmen. It's like people fighting against an inevitability. But I mean, I'm pretty sure that these things are always made before the movie even comes out, right? The DVD is kind of set up before the movie's premiere, right? Like even commentaries, everything. Like everyone's recording this without knowing how it was received. Right.

So you're seeing all these guys who must have slaved away. So you're seeing all these guys who must have slaved away. I mean, George Lucas at one point says they were working like 22 hours a day and not eating and like sleeping in their like chairs. Well, we'll get to that sequence. Because this is the biggest breakthrough of all the behind the scenes material. And like they must be thinking like we have produced like a genre stopping like piece of like advanced work here. Our technology that we've invested in this is so incredible.

Have you ever seen the movie Cube? Yes. I've seen the movie Cube. So the movie Cube is a bunch of people wake up in a cube. They don't know how they all got there. And then they start to learn that each of them had a part

in building this thing that they're all stuck inside. And like this guy's like, I don't know. I was just told, I was part of a contracting company. We were just told to make these, you know.

Right. They weren't aware that they were making the cube prison. Half mile long. That's, in watching the behind the scenes, that's sort of what it felt like, is that every person was just sort of like, I just made these walls, and I made the best walls I could,

and none of them had any idea what the bigger picture was. So, yeah, it's like the parable of the elephant, right? You know, someone describes a tail, Ten blind men feel. Right, right. And someone describes a trunk. And, like, yeah, they can't put it all together to be one thing. What was interesting to me is that every person they interview seems to have, like, a lot of enthusiasm for what they're doing. Like, a certain, like, confused wariness about it. But, like, real enthusiasm for, like, you know, it's a crazy project, this and this and that. And then anytime they cut to George, whether it's like a talking head interview or like sort of like footage of him looking over things, giving notes or whatever.

It always feels, and I watched a bunch of, what is JD pulling up? He's got the movie. He's got the movie. Oh, he's going to address certain points. No, I'm just going to have it play in the background. Yeah, that's cool. I watched some featurettes for Phantom Menace, too. And between all the behind-the-scenes stuff for both of them,

he always just feels like he just wants to get it over with. George does? Weirdly, it feels like he's ripping off a Band-Aid. He does feel a little weary. I mean, it's something about he has that monotone way of talking, too. That doesn't help. Phantom Menace, I think he was genuinely excited. And I think starting up Attack of the too. That doesn't help. Phantom Menace, I think he was genuinely excited and I think starting up Attack of the Clones

when everyone had hated Phantom Menace or was predominantly hated. Sure. He was just kind of like, he had to put his blinders on a lot more. Honestly,

what I believe is that he, he is the only one that can see the full elephant, right? Right. Sure,

supposedly. And I think he's having trouble in these behind the scenes seeing how it all comes together when he is literally the only person that is in that position yes and it seems like he might just be sort of stressed out and hoping that all these pieces independently will come together so it feels like a lot of the choices he's making again this is me completely just yeah endowing characteristics onto him based on what I saw but like it's literally just him watching these small things and making

commentary on them in the micro perspective where he's going maybe that hair should be longer or this or that and you can tell there's a hesitancy for him to connect the larger dots of like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa this doesn't seem to be connected

this movie's logic like like it's, yeah, it's general logical framework is completely unsound. It's like the ultimate force through the trees movie where it's like every leaf is like lovingly designed. Sure. Sort of.

And watching these things. We're going to talk about that. They're not all beautifully designed. Right, right. There you go. But they're lovingly designed. So much effort is being put into it. And watching what does remain

on the fucking Blu-ray special features, all these things about like Zam Wessel's tunic or like Dexter J Jetster or how they designed like the Tusken Raider babies who are on screen for half a second. Right. And like all the thought they put into it. I mean, I didn't realize this, but they explained that the fucking Tusken Raiders teepees are all made out of like skin and bones from larger like woolly mammoth type creatures. And that's on screen in the dark so briefly that barely registers. And guy talked about like okay so most we thought they need a home they're

nomadic cultures they need to move around so what's something that offers them shelter but doesn't this and that and then where would they get the tp from okay so what if the structure of the tp instead of the sticks with the bones it's like this guy's putting so much thought into it it's on screen for half a second and doesn't even register because you're so confused by what's happening in the story at all times it It's the saddest part. The environments don't really matter. Even though they're very well crafted. There's some really good design work at moments and all this fucking

white noise because you're just shoving needles into your eyes and trying to make sense of this fucking thing. JD. Yes. You had never seen the movie before. I have never seen this movie before. You watched it today. You had seen Phantom Menace once as a child. I had seen Phantom Menace once as a child. I had seen Phantom Menace once.

I think I saw Phantom Menace a couple times. Oh, sure. Really, it didn't do it for me. Yeah, you were bummed out by it. I was bummed out by it. I, at the time, thought it was the best one yet. And by best one yet, I mean, of course, the best movie ever made. And I don't know why,

what they were based on, but I felt like I went into it having expectations that this was going to be a great movie. Right. And it did not fulfill the expectations that I had set up. Yeah. You know, apropos of nothing. Uh-huh. But because of that, I was too saddened to watch this next one.

Mm-hmm. To the point that I wanted to live instead in a world where I hadn't seen it. So you're saying we have shattered your world by making you appear on this podcast. Maybe like 15 years ago. I wanted to live in a world where

I hadn't seen it because that way it could have been good. I wanted it to be a mystery box that I could always go, I haven't seen it, so it could actually be good. Right. Schrodinger's cat sort of thing. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Until Observed, I had no idea

if it would ignite a nuclear explosion that would destroy me or keep us all safe. I have a similar thing. I'm like a pop culture completist where, like, even if I dislike something, if I like a part of it, I want to have the full breath of knowledge. Yeah. But RoboCop, which is one of my five favorite movies of all time. It's a similar thing. I'm like a pop culture completist where even if I dislike something, if I like a part of it, I want to have the full breadth of knowledge. But RoboCop, which is one of my five favorite movies of all time, I have purposefully avoided everything else related to RoboCop. Me too.

I've never seen the sequels. I didn't see the remake. I saw the remake, which is stupid on my part. Some people were like, hey, the remake's not bad. But yeah, I mean, I just had no interest. But RoboCop 1 has such a beautiful ending. It's the most perfectly ended film. There's no reason to make a sequel to this movie.

Right, that I just don't want to see the second movie where at the start he's got the helmet back on again. He's talking like Robocop and he's lost his humanity and he has to go through the same fucking scenario. But you did watch every episode of the TV show and wrote and directed every single episode and played every part, right? I didn't watch them. I did write, direct, and play. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I've seen a couple episodes of the TV show.

But I don't like to watch my own work. No, no. Okay, so now your world is shattered, and you now live in a world where this exists. We're about seven minutes before we introduce it, by the way. I'm keeping an eye on the clock. Copy that. The box is open.

Yeah. So you've seen Attack of the Clones. I've seen it. You had 15 years to theorize what a sequel to The Phantom Menace would entail. And we have been trying to ask, like, is this a good sequel to The Phantom Menace? It's been one of our core questions.

is it a good movie? That's not even the question. How does it work as a sequel? I just watched it. Yeah. And I don't understand what happened in it. It makes no sense.

Oh. That happens. During the movie, that's a problem. I don't understand what's happening. We're in week eight and we still don't understand

what's happening in half the movie. But not in a way, well, here's the thing, is that there's films where I don't know what's happening where it feels like. You're not supposed to know. Let me back up to this and say this.

That this film is an achievement in several ways. This is an impressive film. Okay. Okay. Special effects wise where they're at, they did some things that were extremely ambitious. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And for what they had at their fingertips,

what they created is an amazing feat of filmmaking. But to me, and that is not to say this is an objective truth, it didn't satisfy what I wanted from it. Mm-hmm. And what I will say is that I didn't quite understand what was going on, not because things were purposely being kept from me in a way that was made me imagine and then get frustrated by it.

It was, I was so inundated with information about what was going on that I couldn't keep track of it. And it became just this complete sort of like a mess of trade federation understandings and who's this person? Why is this happening? And I think it also didn't help because a lot of the technological, a lot of the things that made the film so hard to create technologically also made the film hard for the performers

in it. And I think as a viewer, you rely on the performers to let you know how you should be feeling. And when the performers don't know how they should be feeling, then as an audience, you don't know how you should be feeling.

And then you've lost all guideposts for what's going on. So when a piece of information is said and no one really reacts to it, nor do I, and then it doesn't register as important yes yes i think that's an incredible point you're making a case for it is like an aggressively surreal film you're making a case for is a film that like abandons any uh like pretend you know any like of the uh established ways of having an audience enjoy a movie audience empathy is like

yes right right yeah and i don. You're very right. Yes. Like important things are said and characters react with blank faces. Well, I think. All the time. When it speaks to. I think all these actors are trying to make. Declarations of love. Things like that.

I think all these actors are trying to make deliberate specific acting choices at every moment. I don't think anyone's asleep at the wheel. I think they're just genuinely so confused about what's going on around them and what they're supposed to be playing that the confusion reads more than their acting choices. This is the weirdest scene. Yeah, the movie. This is the testicle creatures. I've been sort of cycling around and it's the testicle creatures, exactly. There's a fucking thing on the Blu-ray where the guy talks about designing the testicle creatures and how he had the design and then he couldn't figure out the anatomy of how the musculature would work.

And he worked on it for months. Why would he do that? Because. Why didn't George Lucas say, you know what, these actually look really weird let's do something else. Because he had thousands of people working on the movie and he went, your job is just to design a testicle. So, yeah. But we should talk about it. And J.D. is right. Like, this movie

is doing a lot of things that movies hadn't done before. It was a filmmaking revolution in a lot of ways. It was. And they're trying to do something that, to this day, would be difficult to achieve if they tried to make a film this ambitious from a CGI standpoint. Right. It would be difficult.

And the inception of this film was probably 20 years ago now, was when they started planning to make this film. And the amount that technology has changed in computer graphics and 3D rendering and stuff like that has been leaps and bounds over the past five years, let alone where it was 20 years ago when they started sort of coming up with the plan for how they're going to do this.

So the fact that they achieved some things they achieved is really impressive, but it does not stand the test of time. And also, I don't think stood the test of time at the moment because they were doing things

that they wanted to do things that they did not have the technology to achieve yet. And they did the best they could possibly do under the circumstances. And it was really impressive because these were

the best of the best of the best working on it. But they just did not have the tools they needed to achieve the things that they were trying to do. I also think, I mean, there are a lot of aspects to this. I think there is a very, very wide gulf between the best effects in the movie and the worst effects in the movie.

What do you think the best effects in the movie are? Well, okay, let's just talk about character animation, right? Because we have a ton of digital characters in this movie. Outside of a fully animated movie, this probably had the largest number of CGI creatures in any film up until that point. This was the first ever film to have a digital supporting cast. Yeah.

I mean, there are like 10 live action actors in this movie. Yeah, and this was really the first time that main characters were digital. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and in Phantom Menace you have... With Phantom Menace. I mean, Phantom Menace and this, but this was the first film series. Yeah, and in Phantom Menace, you have... With Phantom Menace. I mean, Phantom Menace and this, but this was the first film series

where that was... But Phantom Menace has, like, three, you know? Well, it has all the Gungans. Yeah, but, okay, so... Or Goongans. In terms of actual, like, characters with, like...

Thank you for correcting yourself. It's, like, Watto, Tarple, Boss Nass, and Jar Jar, and then the Battle Droids. And the Battle Droids don't have to really perform. At Gungan Army, you're seeing

big mass things. But in terms of characters who have more than a scene, an actual emotional wave. Well, also the pod racers. But I guess that's... Yeah, Sebulba, I guess you can say that. Sebulba has a comeback in this film that I'm not a fan of. You're talking about Sebulba or Watto?

Watto's our favorite flying space juice. Sebulba is the pod racer who he flies with. Right, Sebulba. Where's Sebulba? Is he in this movie? Sebulba's in this movie. You guys don't know Sebulba? Where's Sebulba in this movie?

You guys don't know where Sebulba is? He has a devilish grin on his face right now. Sebulba was one of the first moments in watching this where I became disappointed in the movie. Come on, come on, come on. I can't even imagine. Okay, I could try to find the. Come on, come on, come on. I want to know. Okay, I could try to find the moment.

No, but just say it first. I'll try and find it as you talk about it. Okay, so when the assassin tries to shoot worms at Queen Amidala, Sam Wessel, a changeling. Senator Amidala, whatever her name is. She's a senator now, that's true. Scrolling to that scene.

Obi-Wan, for a reason that is beyond me, decides to jump out of the window and grab onto this point. She's a senator now, that's true. Scrolling to that scene. Obi-Wan, for a reason that is beyond me, decides to jump out of the window and grab onto this robot. As one does. And then Anakin decides to get into a speeder, convertible speeder, and drive after him. A hot rod. As one does.

As one does. During this, they cut through traffic and cause all sorts of problems and at one point, it cuts to a reaction shot of a driver who they've just cut off who is Sebulba, and as a callback to the pot racing scene, I believe his line is,

Jedi Poodoo. I'm trying to find it exactly. How do we fucking miss this? But like, alright, anyway. This is unbelievable. I now know what moment you're talking about. I never fucking registered that. I know what you're talking about too. Here's like, that's not Se all right, anyway. This is unbelievable. I now know what moment you're talking about. I never fucking registered that. I know, I know what you're talking about too. I'm trying to, here's like,

that's not Sebulba, but there's a guy. It is sort of like, yeah. I'm pretty sure. It's a jokey callback to, I'm 100% certain it's Sebulba. No, I'm sure you're right. Because that's Sebulba's line.

It's called people poodoo. Oh yeah, there it is. But he looks old. Yeah, well, Anakin looks a lot older. He's with another guy. Let me see. It's probably one of those slaves he owns.

We did backstory. We did a backstory episode for all the pod racers because they all have incredibly dense and complicated backstories on Wikipedia. Yeah, like Ben Quado. Yeah, Ben Quaggianeros and Doug Bolt. Almost all of them are slave owners. Sebulba tried to... No, it was someone else.

Sebulba is a pimp. Yeah. Jesus Christ. That is definitely Sebulba. You're totally right. That other guy next to him is another podracer. I forget what his name is, but that's a different podracer. Jesus Christ. How did we even get on this the way

Sebulba owns a bunch of sex slaves. He owns like four women and then one of his competitors hired an assassin to kill Sebulba's sister and mother. That's how gross the world of pod racing is. It's gross, JD. Yeah, that moment really upset me, though.

But wait, I'm trying to track back. Why were you mentioning Sebulba? Digital characters. Oh, digital characters, right. This is a film that had a lot of digital characters. We've got, let's talk about some of them. Yoda. Yes.

The Lama Su and the other one. The Kamanians. This will literally take the entire podcast. Yeah, we can't do this. I'm just trying to... All the long neck people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All of...

At certain points, Obi-Wan is digital. Well, this is... I mean, R2 and C-3PO seem to be like largely digital especially after you see that documentary where like they seem to be

just animatics I don't believe there's a single character in this film that at some point isn't mostly digital right yeah every character

yeah anyone who's on screen for more than two seconds I mean Danny Fatone do you know there's one there's only one scene in this film that did not have oh wait was it this's only one scene in this film that did not have oh wait

was it this film I believe it's this film that did not have CG in it what's the scene has to be one of the Anakin Padme scenes right no I I might be wrong

never mind it does seem honestly that seems impossible I can't think of a scene where that would be true everything is like has CGI backgrounds. Because even when I'm having dinner, there's the floating pair.

No, forget that. Just the backgrounds, the sets, everything is filled out in CG. As we see in these documentaries, it's all blue screens with one set, like one piece of set. Well, let me say this thing. This point I was going to make. The goal between, like, I think the Kamonians look really good. I keep on getting their fucking hair. They look okay. You go on about how great they look. They look fine.. The goal between like I think the Kamonians look really good. I keep on getting

their fucking name wrong. They look okay. You go on about how great they look. They look fine. The set looks bad I think. I agree with you but this is my point

and then someone like Dexter Jetser you know I love him I think looks like a PlayStation 1 cutscene. He does. He does. Dexter Jetser does not

blend with the Diner Runner. I like the design of him a lot but the animation itself is just like it looks like a fucking Playstation 1 game I mean well you haven't played a Playstation 1 game in a while those things are real bad I played a Playstation 1 game in a while

I found it at a good well it's really bad you know like how like that era of video games like not the early era where they knew exactly what they were doing but the space in between when it got advanced enough to get ambitious and when they had the ambitions but not the technical ability to execute it. Those games are so tough to play because

they're so bad that they're almost unwinnable. They're illogical, yeah. It's like playing in a world where the rules of the world don't make sense. Right. And if you take the wrong step then you fall through the floor. And then you're just walking through the floor with your arms up like this and you can't get out. One of my favorite video games ever is the video game Deus Ex

which is trying to do a lot of things that games do now, where it's like you have to be stealthy, and if you leave a body somewhere and other people find it, they're going to make a fuss about it. But then there's a glitch where if you tap the wrong time, the body starts to levitate. It's still limited, so you can also just walk up to anyone, hit them with a crowbar, and then shock them,

and then they're kind of done, and they won't make a fuss because no one else is nearby. It's still too easy to game the system. It's still computerized. You know where the walls are, basically. I don't know what I'm talking about. My point is there are not enough people in the world with the skill to be able to execute

every single different digital thing this film asked for. Oh, I see. There's so much, like, from the environments to the props to the ships to the characters to modifications to the live-action actors. As you said, it's still too ambitious to pull off. What this was to me was like when people tried to build, like, spaceships before we really understood how to build spaceships.

Like, this to me was the, like, I don't know what I mean. Like, this was like the Apollo 1. You know what I mean? Like, we're going to use tape and sky, like, we're going to try to make this work and it's not quite going to work and we're going to learn a lot of lessons from this.

Like, they set out. Look how bad this scene looks. Oh, you mean this scene where they sit in ramen spoons? This is like a good time to of course say our guest today. Is that not what they're?

Yeah, they're sitting in ramen spoons. Our guest today is J.D. Amato. Oh yeah, we went 25 minutes in. Shit. Yeah, this is J.D. Amato. He's director of the Chris Gethard show. Showrunner as well, right? Showrunner.

Filmmaker, improviser, on and off sometimes. Brilliant. Yeah, this is J.D. Amato. He's director of the Chris Gethard Show. Showrunner as well, right? Showrunner. Filmmaker, improviser, on and off sometimes. Brilliant. Yeah, yeah. You know, multi-talented. One of our finest minds. He's so great. Guys, thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm so happy to talk about these obscure films. Host of 12 Hour Day. Ah, yes. 12 Hour Day podcast. I'm trying to think of some of the other things. Terry Withers' Mystery. You're one of the creators.

Yes. Yeah. You did cop show cop show and Colin Quinn. Stay tuned for more. Really. Yeah. Oh I didn't know that

that's perhaps I mean maybe who knows who knows who's been teasing it on Twitter. I feel like this is the comfortable level of announcement of like who knows maybe

wink wink with a co-star in Griffin Newman. Yeah. I know it's on this I know. Breakaway star of the series. He's really funny.

I was supposed to only work one day. Yeah. On the first one, yeah. Yeah, and then you were just too good. Hey, come on. Get out. You're too funny. You're trying to graw-graw me?

Come on. Do you know about Gragra? No. She's our third favorite character. We gotta do that off mic. We've done enough graw-graw. Okay. This film.

Yes. And a lot of special features we watched attest to this was sort of the first thing that could fall into the category of they keep on calling it

virtual filmmaking. Yes. Yeah, where like the camera shakes but there's no camera and it's all effects. It's all just to kind of look like a film.

But it's a cartoon. A, it was the first mainstream film shot on digital video. Yes, it was the first mainstream film shot on digital video. Yes, it was. And when they were virtual filmmaking, what that basically means is that instead of shooting scenes, you're shooting elements

and then you're using those elements to produce shots in digital reality. So that's why a lot of the live action elements of this were shot independent of anything else, only as almost like a necessity to capture them. And then they were composed and actually framed and put into reality in the computer.

But everything was pre-visualized before the actors were even brought on set. And then so the actors could be shown these weird kind of glob like 3D models of what they were supposed to be seeing. Right. What would eventually be around them. Your decisions are being made for you, which is always great as an actor. Yeah, right. And then beyond that, something like the Battle of Geonosis is like when you watch the behind the scenes stuff seems like the most glaring example of this was like every different performer in that was shot. Like there were never more than three actors on the soundstage at the same time right and that's a scene with a ton of people and it was like oh here are three jedis

they're reacting to nothing there's not even a stand-in pretending to be a battle droid they're waving it around and then later like six months later he'd shoot christopher lee in a box and then like two weeks before that he'd shoot anakin and then like a week after that he'd shoot padme kissing Anakin. Like it's like all, any element within the shot was shot at a different time. Yeah, so for people that don't know the process of making films, especially like action-oriented stuff, right, is you have your script and then from the script you go into pre-vis stage,

which is basically it can be anything from just compiling photographs that are sort of a lookbook of what you want down to actually mapping out the shots, animating them, creating animatics, which are sort of like, almost think of them as like, almost like a flipbook of what's going on. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. A flipbook, but instead of there being 300 cells, it's like two. Like an animatic is usually very light. But for this, because there were so many elements

they needed to be on top of, it was just easier for their previs team to sort of self-shoot sort of versions of what they're going for to sort of prove how it would work. And so instead of having storyboards, they had these actual sort of cartoons filmed lo-fi video of basically it would be the animators or their animators family or their friends

on these little sound stages they had in their offices shooting the scenes acting out the parts they show first they're like wearing fucking Jedi robes right and they're in one of George Lucas's cars or something right like they're playing the parts there's just a shittier version of attack of

the clones that exists in full that they use to plan out how to make attack of the clones and in this film too i know it was the case where george lucas basically said here's the script you guys audition shots for me tell me what you want right and people would go basically so in a film like this there's going to be so many departments that are in charge of creating shots that everyone probably gets a handful of shots, like three to five shots or like one sequence or three to five different shots. And then George would go, all right, show me the best version of that.

What should your sequence be? And so someone would go, well, we have the we have the speeder chase scene. So we thought it could be like this and like this and like this. And instead of drawing it, they would just sort of shoot it and sort of say, here's what we want it could be like this and like this and like this. And instead of drawing it, they would just sort of shoot it and sort of say,

here's what we want it to look like. They'd make the movie. They'd make the garage version of the movie. And then it became the case where George Lucas, instead of going, here's what the shots are, here's what I want,

he would watch it and then go, okay, or maybe we should cut to this here. This and this. And he'd sort of pick what he liked. Exactly. It was sort of kid at a candy store as opposed to someone creating sort of a framework for what the visual story was. It was like a plot luck movie. It was like everyone bringing their scenes to the table.

And the thing we have to note is you're saying, like, the script existed. But as they say in these things, often the script is just like, then a battle occurs. Like, it's very bare bones. Like, the Clone Wars stuff basically it sounds like was just a page of, like, you know, there's some explosions. And then it was like, you guys go and what can you come up with and so they make up all kinds of crazy stuff and my prediction is that the reason that became

the process is because I think and probably the original conversations with ILM and the special effects team the conversation was we need to be very involved in the story process because the decisions that are made there are going to affect how we do things, and the things that are possible for us to do are going to affect what the story can be because we're at a stage of special effects making that film where basically

there are certain things that could be achieved and couldn't be achieved. And so I'm sure the conversation was the story department and the visual effects department need to be one and the same because they need to be constantly talking. And so that's why I think the conversation became not, here's what I want you to do. It became, tell me how we can do this. And then it put the creative onus on the special effects team to be creating all these sequences and all this stuff. And it probably wasn't from a laziness, but it's probably just from sort of a fear of stepping into an arena that the special effects team couldn't come up with so i think that put sort of

a an undue focus on the special effects and pre-visualization department to basically create the film from scratch and then george lucas to be the one sort of overseeing it all and then i think he places actors into it yeah and then i think he probably had a hard time seeing the big picture of how it all connected because this was also very early in CGI, and so people weren't used to giving notes on pre-renders and things like that and stuff that looked really, really sparse. And so I think he just had to trust the process also.

So I think a lot of this was sort of the process taking on a mind of its own and creating this film despite the creative will of anybody. Basically like a film by committee, which is sort of tough. It like metastasized into its own creature and then no one could stop the movie. Like the movie became something bigger than any one person. I mean, I'll say like watching the special features, then when you see the movie, you're like, wow. They actually, it's kind of incredible they made a movie at all. It looks like okay.

It's an okay looking movie. Yeah. Because when you, it does not seem, everything you see does not seem remotely conducive to making any kind of film.

No. And the special effects, this film gets a lot of charisma for its special effects. Its special effects are beautifully done, but they don't really contribute to the

story or what you want to happen. And I mean it gets into a bigger conversation of the point of filmmaking and visual storytelling and why you choose to do the things that you do. I want to get into that conversation. Right and so I think I think the special effects from a technical standpoint

and a achievement standpoint are incredible but I don't think they serve are incredible but i don't think they serve the story yeah i don't think they serve the story nor do they serve the purpose of why they should have been included in the film and i think because of that it created a lot of issues and then the the focus becomes on the specific specificity of this effects and the details of the effects which at the time they're dealing with a lot of issues which we can talk about the special effects and sort details of the effects, which at the time they're dealing with a lot of issues. We can talk about the special effects and sort of from a more technical perspective

why people have the issues they have and what the technical limitations are that sort of created those issues that people have. Because nowadays you look at this stuff and you go, why is this so cartoony and so bad and how is it at a... But it was a lot of the technical limitations that they're dealing with is stuff that hadn't been invented yet or was right about to be invented that they didn't have

utility of. Well, this movie lost to The Two Towers for the Oscar for visual effects that year. And The Two Towers has better visual effects than this movie. Less, but better. Less, but better. Quality over quantity. But I would say that even the movie before The Two Towers has worse visual effects.

Or at least has a lot of moments where you can see the seams a lot more. This was all being invented. The New Zealand guys made their own stuff in their advances that all now is becoming normal. And also Peter Jackson very smartly and this is what everyone sort of

complimented him on for the original Lord of the Rings films and criticized him for in the Hobbit films avoiding avoiding, stepping away from, is he was really smart in when to use practical and when to use digital. Sure. It's like, build practical stuff, extend it with digital. Right. You know, modify it with

digital. But the Two Towers does have Gollum. It does have a digital character. Oh, but that's what I'm saying. That works. It's like... Whereas these characters don't work. But if you go, I'm gonna build some sets. Yeah, no, of course. That saves the time that the effects people would have to spend building the sets to let more people work on Gollum.

Make Gollum look as good as he can look, rather than like, oh fuck, we have to design the table too. We need ten people on the table this week. Because George didn't want to film a table. Something to keep in mind is that this was before performance capture or even motion capture

was a ubiquitous process in cinema. I think Gollum was the first performance capture character. With the dots on the face. Yeah, performance capture is basically where you create motion tracking marks. I mean, you sort of step back and talk about the special effects stuff and how special effects work,

but Gollum was one of the first motion capture and performance capture characters in the history of film. And so if you look at what happens in Star Wars, they were basically flying without a net. The animators had to just make everything up themselves. They didn't have a baseline to work with. A lot of times, it wasn't that there was... A lot of times, you'll cover a character

and sort of if you were shooting blue screen you'll cover them in blue fabric and have them act stuff out and they did that a little bit but a lot of times literally it was just an actor alone in a room responding to nothing. Talking to nothing. And Liam Neeson talks about it in one of those documentaries where he's like I really wanted to focus on something because I feel like audiences

want you to be reacting to something but he had nothing to focus on. But as difficult as that is for an actor, that is equally as difficult for an animator. Sure, of course. It's bad for everybody. You are given no context or reference. Do you know what's even worse for J.D.? The audience.

Nobody wins. No one wins. Yeah. But there's a lot of issues that we can sort of get into the details of, I think, a lot of the things that stick out to people. Speaking of that, though, briefly, there was a moment that really jumped out to me. They don't even comment on it, but there's like a blue screen acting feature. This is at the process of it.

And Ewan McGregor's like, look, I'm not going to say it was easy or that it was fun. Hopefully it worked. But he's clearly like, I don't know if this is a fucking performance. Right. And we've already talked about it. We think he does a pretty decent job. Well, he improves with each. Someone like Hayden Christensen who.

Seems lost at sea. Right. No wonder. I mean, he's not a great actor. Well. No wonder. I don't know. The fact that this performance is that bad, I attribute to him being that lost at sea.

Maybe. But the point I was going to make, though, the thing that kind of blew my mind, and what you're talking about, like them flying without a net and having to figure it out as they went along, they showed behind the scenes

of the Dexter Jetser diner scene. And they did... That was a physical set that was largely practical in camera. Sure. Obviously with CGI elements in the background,

but they built that whole fucking thing, and then they had an actor playing Dexter Jetser, the voice of Dexter Jetser, on set with Ewan McGregor. But there was the moment that's supposed to be the two of them hugging where they make physical contact. And he didn't do it because they didn't want to have to cover up the CGI.

And then they show, they don't comment on this, but they just show as part of the reel of progression, them having to create a fully CGI Jedi robe. Like a fully CGI cloak because his cloak didn't move the way it would if someone with four huge arms did. So they like filmed a guy wearing a cloak being hugged by the air and then they were like

fuck now we have to spend like a month where someone has to digitize a cloak and make it have the right amount of fibers and then the physics and have the light go through it and then have the cloak move the way it would with the forearms. And I keep on going back and forth with the guy animating Dexter Jetser to be like, are the arms hairy? Because if they were hairy, then the cloak would move more. Yeah.

It's like they just fucking planned everything out in the worst way possible because no one had done it before and they were biting off way more than they could chew. But I also wanted to say, as I was saying to JD before podcast started, in those featurettes, you see footage of Hayden Christensen during shooting. He seems really animated and fun. In the interviews, he's like, it's a great fucking movie. I'm having a great time. He looks like there's these scenes of him joking around with Ewan McGregor. And where is that on screen? It's not there.

He seems great. Yeah, he seems like a fun guy. You know he's in this movie called 90 Minutes in Heaven now? No. It's coming out in a few weeks. It's like one of those Christian movies about a guy who, like, dies and goes to heaven, and then he comes back to earth, and he's like, I was in heaven, and I saw all this stuff. I don't want to hear it.

I don't want to hear it. Anyway. Huh. We should go see it. Hayden Christensen. You know, he competed in the Eco Challenge. I don't know what that is. No, I don't either.

The Eco Challenge was Mark Burnett's first big television foray. He organized this adventure race, and they televised it. And it's this really grueling adventure. Was it before he was famous, or was it after he was famous? This is Pre-Survivor. Oh, no, but so Hayden Christensen

was not famous. Basically, after shooting this movie, I believe, him and his like brother and sister formed a team and this is like something where like

professional adventure racers have to do it yeah and this was right when the eco challenge sort of blew up and so it was like for the first time ever

it was like Hayden Christensen and his friends form a team and then Playboy has their team and so then it was like it would follow

not only the pro adventure racers who were at the front but also these people who were like struggling to survive this thing yeah but it was like it would follow not only the pro adventure racers who were at the front but also these people who were like struggling to survive this thing. But it was so interesting seeing Hayden Christensen and his team ended up

having to get eliminated. They got like rescued. They got rescued in the middle of it, yeah. Was he mildly charismatic? Yeah, was he nice? Yeah, he seemed nice. He seemed like a normal kid

but the situation he was put in was really tough for this film. Oh yeah, it's impossible. No, yeah. For someone who has as little experience as he did, and I think is very limited

as an actor, that performance is inexcusably bad, but there's also no way he was going to produce a good performance in those circumstances. I believe his performance is excusably bad.

Really? I believe it is, because I believe the situation he was put in, along with all the other performers, is a nearly impossible scenario. He's in the worst situation of any performer in this film, I think. Yes, I believe so.

Because the film is on his shoulders more than anyone else. He's the greenest actor. He's the one who's new to the... He wasn't the first one. He's the only character in the film who is playing an emotional arc. Everyone else is the same at the beginning and the end. Obi-Wan is kind of like the gruff dad guy, and Padme is the same. He's the only one who has to change

and show real development, and obviously the script gives him no faculties there. And the problem becomes that... Here's the scene where Mace Windu and Yoda admit that their Jedi powers don't work anymore. It's not addressed again. Can I point, there was a scene, it was in the concept art gallery on

fucking Coruscant, on the fucking Blu-ray, on disc 27. But there was like an unused concept art thing of Mace Windu's office. And the caption underneath was, George decided to scrap the scene that takes place in Mace Windu's office after he decided having him in a real world office took you out of the reality of the film. And the concept art was literally just, like, Mace Windu sitting in, like, a Goldman Sachs, like, corner office. It was supposed to be, like, I guess this scene

or one of the scenes like this where he brings in Anakin. But it was, like, this room. And it was just, like, a corner office with a big desk and, like, some desk toys and stuff like that. Yeah, like a drinking bird. Anakin, take a seat. His lightsaber's, like like sitting in a credenza. Elizabeth, can you buzz in Anakin?

That's the worst part of Attack of the Clones. At least in Phantom Menace, the Jedi's, they're in this like weird tower and they sit at the top in their chair. This one, it's like, oh yeah, welcome to like the, here's the school, here's the library. It's just a boring community center. Yeah, exactly.

It's like, oh, you can get the Jedi discount if you go to Mos Eisley from your Jedi card. JD. Yes. Amano. Our guest today on this week's episode. Did we introduce him? No, I don't think so.

Filmmaker. David Samson. Thank you. Oh, of course. Thank you for being here. It's a pleasure. You're a filmmaker. Yes.

I'm an actor. I'm more of a wannabe filmmaker yes I'm an actor I'm more of a wannabe filmmaker I haven't made a film yet I feel like I'm a wannabe actor I haven't made a feature film yet you're a director I've made a lot of TV

you're a content creator yeah well we're all content creators in this 21st century economy that's true I've made a lot of short films and done a lot of TV yeah and worked in special effects back in college

and did a lot in special effects and now i mostly work in tv uh running i think the point you made is uh very smart and logical and basic and obvious but but powerful that like uh any other thing you do in a movie is kind of window dressing if the performances aren't emotionally accessible to the audience because that is really like the entry point for everybody. And the story. Yeah but it's like the story gets funneled through the people you know. Sure. And like you're

going to be turned off more by a bad performance than by bad effects. If the story's working you go that looks shitty but it's awesome. Like there are tons of great movies that have bad elements than by bad effects. If the story's working, you go, that looks shitty, but it's awesome. Like, there are tons of great movies that have bad elements. And TV shows. But if, like, the performances work and the story works through those performances,

you can kind of forgive a lot. I mean, look at, like, King Kong. Yeah. Or whatever. Anything that was made basically 100 years ago, if the story's good. Now, don't you think the cornerstone of getting good performances out of actors is letting them work with each other and like find chemistry and energy with each other?

Yeah, I think that's an important aspect of it. Yeah. Isn't it so counterintuitive to like throw someone like Hayden Christensen? They spent a lot of time talking about how the Droid Factory sequence was, they shot the film, they went through post, they were like finishing effects and editing it,

and then it was like, oh, there's this weird lag, there isn't enough action. They cut out a couple more dramatic scenes and they were like, let's add this Droid Factory thing,

which was never in the script. We haven't talked about this yet. That was added nine months into post-production. Right. George Lucas was decided after seeing a concept drawing of the droid factory that there should be a whole extended sequence that took place here. So they shot the scene that took place before and after that.

Yeah. Already. And just plopped in this scene, which we've talked about how... It is completely incongruous and bizarre. With everything else in the movie. And it's basically like a children's comedy routine. And how their performances are notably maybe at their worst in that scene because you can't tell what they're reacting to like right the things the cranes they're sweeping away from and we thought

it was just oh he was giving them vague direction but not only was it like nine months later they didn't have a script for them they were like we're gonna work some stuff and they showed them some rough like previous animation they explained they shot all that in fucking four and a half hours they shot it before lunch. All the scenes of them like on conveyor belts and like, you know, falling over

and fighting people. They fly them to fucking London a year after they finished the movie. Do reshoots at Pinewood or Elstree. And they're like, okay, so just pretend

like there's a bull and you're like, what? And you're looking over and they're like, look over their shoulders to literally ask, what are you saying? And they use that take

and they're like, great, moving on. Like they gave no one any time to fucking make this work so if you're going to do a movie like this and there have been other films done

in this sort of virtual filmmaking way since then 300 notably Sky Captain of the World Tomorrow Sin City do you read that story

about Sky Captain yeah it was fascinating it was fascinating the big thing that links Sin City and 300 and many other films that have been done in this style is that they are far more expressionist.

You know, the actor. Oh, sure. The visuals. Yes, of course. But the performances kind of match that. Yes. And they almost sort of weaponize how weird the energy is in these movies once all these hermetically sealed elements just like taped together like a collage. And those movies are trying to look like fucking illustrations and like paintings. And like, I know this is fucking Attack of the Clones, but it is trying to establish a reality within this

fantasy world. It's trying to take a fantasy world and film it as if it is a real world that exists. Whereas Sin City is like, these are people, these are cartoons. These are drawings come to life. Right. But I think all of those films, with all their mixed levels of success and failure artistically, you can tell that the directors went out of their way to make it clear to the actors what they were doing. To provide clear context, guidelines, emotional surroundings, things to play off of, you know? Right. Explain to the depth. And you're working with a director here who's trying to push these boundaries and seemingly hates actors. He seems very dismissive of what actors do.

So I'm going to dial this back a little bit. Sure. I'll say this first, is that as someone who tries to make stuff professionally, I try not to criticize other people's things too much. Just because... Griffin also should do that, but doesn't. I should. As someone who wants to work in Hollywood

and form connections with people who make movies, he is doing an abominable job of networking. My agents told me not to do this because I just badmouth people every week and I'm just not going to get hired ever again. And so one of the things that I try not to do is I try not to endow characteristics onto directors or creators

when I criticize or look at the things that they create. You just look at the product. Well, look at the product. I think as, if you're going to criticize something,

you have to look... How do R2 and C3PO end up anywhere? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You have to look at something as basically a primary source, right? This was

created. And my first instinct is always you have to say, this is how the person intended to make it. That should be your first instinct. I agree. This is how they intended to make it. Does that seem weird to you? Well, don't try to guess at why. That's what they intended. Exactly. That's what they intended. Don't, like, one of my least favorite things in criticism is when someone

goes, um, this director is an idiot. They didn't even think about how to do da-da-da-da-da-da. Because it's, instead of looking at the film as a primary source,

it's then, it's crafting your own narrative for what the director's doing, which then gets you down the road of, you're just self-justifying for whatever things you see in that.

Which, mind you, there are tons of terrible movies made by very intelligent people with the best intentions, and there are a bunch of incredible movies that were mistakes where people ended up doing things wrong and the final product right they figured it out in a way that that it can only work when divorced from what their

intentions exactly and so then i think the second part of things if i look at something that feels really off i really don't like it and um i have trouble believing that this was the intention of the creator then the next step is I look at the process. Yes. And try to see what happened in the process and the actual story of making this that could have led to this version of things. So in looking at this film, I think there's a lot to speak of.

Because also, let's keep in mind, George Lucas, what are the things that you guys know George Lucas from? He made American Graffiti. He made THX 1138. He took a long break. what are the things that you guys know George Lucas from? He made American Graffiti He made THX 1138 He produced movies He produced Raiders of the Lost Ark He produced Legend

Is it Legend or Willow? Willow Legend is Ridley Scott It's amazing and I could do a whole podcast about Legend I sometimes see people go crazy for Willow I love Willow

you know Legend I was just reading about Tom Cruise and like how that was his like escape from Top Gun and from Fame because that movie

took a long time to make and he was like in the middle of nowhere yeah and he just like secluded himself that was before Top Gun though well I think it was no wait was it

I'm looking I believe maybe it was after Risky Business I think it was right after Risky Business yes Legend he was I think it was no wait was it? I believe maybe it was after Risky Business. I think it was right after Risky Business. Legend he was I think 21 years old. It's crazy.

It was right after Risky Business. Mia Sarah was 16. Tim Curry is incredible. Love Legend. And the original film they set to make out in Legend is an

incredible film and what the studio did to it made it into a not a good film. We can get into all that stuff. The soundtrack. Oh my God.

You can also listen to 12 Hour Day. There's a lot of you explaining. Yes. You got to come back and do Legend film. We can get into all that stuff. The soundtrack, oh my God. You can also listen to 12 Hour Day. There's a lot of you explaining. Yes. You gotta come back and do Legends sometime. Oh my gosh. That's the kind of movies

we're interested in where a lot of creative capital is being put on the line. Yeah. When someone has free reign to make something. I mean, that's because that's

what these movies are. These are self-financed. We should do a podcast called We Are Legend where we talk about legend. That's a really good title. But then can we also talk about I Am Legend? Because I think that movie's brilliant, too.

Yeah, I think that's an interesting... Except it has a horrible ending. Wait, what? The Francis Lawrence movie, I Am Legend. Have you ever seen I Am Legend? What movie? I Am Legend. What is that?

You don't know that one? What is... I Am Legend. I Am Legend, yeah. I've never heard of this. Wait, really? Yeah. With Will Smith?

Will Smith? I can't tell if he's doing a bit right now. I can't tell. I can't tell. Because JD's kind of sort of like tough guy to read. We don't do bits on this show. That's the thing.

We don't do bits on it. This is just serious film criticism. This show is straight raw from the heart. No, I'm sorry, guys. I apologize. I was doing a bit where I acted like I didn't know a movie existed. Oh, I see.

Yeah, see, no, we wouldn't do that. That doesn't make any sense to us. Yeah, sorry. We try to work with our full intelligence, our full reference base. Remember the Shrek monologue in I Am Legend? Yeah.

When he just recites the scene from Shrek. Yeah, it's crazy. Okay, JD, that's funny, but please don't do that anymore on our show. Yeah, sorry. We don't appreciate that.

Yeah, sorry. I won't do a bit where I act like... And you know what I really hate is those kind of meta bits where you're doing a bit about another bit. That's insufferable.

That's why people hate modern comedy. Yeah. And bits insufferable. That's why people hate modern comedy. Yeah. And like bits about bits about bits. It's just like the fucking levels And the worst thing is when white guys have some fucking podcast where they just like talk about movies all day. You know what else I hate? When like white 15 year olds think they can

fix the racism of the world in a history paper. That's like my least favorite thing in the world. Those people should actively be put to death. Those people should be put to death. Like the government should like send out agents in the world. Those people should actively be put to death. Those people should be put to death. Like the government should like send out agents hunting for them. Well, they should have been put to death at 15,

but they're still alive right now and maybe let them go. No, no, I think, I think you can't forgive. Maybe they're going to see their other ways. Fun fact, whenever Griffin goes to the bathroom, he just mutters to himself

that he solved racism. That is a weird reference. That's a weird deep reference to the jinx there. And then he says, like, solved racism, of course. All the burping. Yeah. Anyway, go on. Anyways.

You look at the process. I look at the process. And the process of this is actually really interesting because this film was one of the most ambitious films at its time and probably looking back for where it was in the history of special effects for what they wanted to achieve. And what it innovated that is now to us completely commonplace.

And so there's a couple of concepts that are important to understanding a film like this and why things like special effects are tough and why this doesn't work. And so like the first one is like just talking about the technological side we can get into all the nitty-gritty details of what they had at their disposal and what things we take for granted now that they didn't have back then that make it much easier to create full real life special effects right but then there's a concept that is very, very important to special effects being enjoyed, and that's the concept of the uncanny valley, which I'm sure you guys are familiar with.

Of course. The more photorealistic you try to make something, there's a certain point at which that breaks and things just look really, really strange. Exactly. The closer you get to reality, the more your brain is shocked by discernible differences from reality. It's almost like a self-preservation mechanism in our brains, right? That we don't want to trust something that looks like us but is not real. Yeah, and I actually believe it came from basically our inherent desire

to not be around sick people and people that had problems and things like that. And it's the reason why cookie monster doesn't bother us but like a kid can watch sesame street and not be bothered by cookie monster but if a kid meets someone who has like a chromosome disorder they'll like burst into tears yeah comfortably because it's like that looks like a person but something's off and i don't know what right yeah and so your brain just goes into this panic mode where You obsess over what is wrong. Exactly. You try to figure out what's wrong and then you lose focus and engagement with,

when we're talking with regards to movies. Right. What often happens is you then step out of it and are trying to figure out, are the eyes weird? Is it that the fingers move the wrong way? Sure, right, right, right. And then you're not paying attention anymore.

And so the uncanny valley in special effects is when things start looking close, farther from a cartoon and close to reality, your mind puts up more red flags as to this is not real because it goes, this looks very close to being real, but it's not. And I need to figure out why. And so special effects, that's your biggest, that's the thing you're battling the most is the Uncanny Valley. And not only does it go for character performances, like things like creatures, that's why I think a lot of the aliens and creatures in Star Wars aren't bothersome. But the moment they try to create humans in

CG or organic elements in CG... Even just things like creatures that have hair, it feels weird. Yeah, exactly. Or like when you start seeing people's mouths or eyes or things like that. If you see a wide shot of a bunch of creatures walking across the screen, it looks fine because you have no context for that.

But then the moment you see them turn Hayden Christensen into a CG puppet that's doing a backflip, your brain is like, what is I don't, this is not real. And Dexter Jetser's mustache, I would argue, has a similar effect where I get really grossed out when I see it because we know what a mustache is supposed to look like, even if it's on a weird frog alien.

Right. And there's a couple concepts in... Yeah. He's on a weird frog alien. Right. And there's a couple concepts in... Yeah. He's something. He's something. That's why we like Dexter, because he's not quite as recognizably an ethnic type. Which is the mistake that first movies make, where it's like, yeah, this is

one ethnic type. Oh, the vice for why he's an Asian man. Oh, so we've talked to that extent. The vice for why he's a state. He's worse than Rosemary's Baby in terms of that. Not Rosemary's Baby, Breakfast at Tiffany's.

Well, Breakfast and Rosemary's Baby at the end when... Is there an Asian person? Oh, this is the guy taking the photo. Oh, he takes a photo and it's just like, why did you do that?

It's one moment, though. Breakfast at Tiffany's has like intermissions where they just let Mickey Rooney do like a sidetrack from the Chinese food waiter. One of my favorite movies of all time,

The Taking of Pelham 1, 2, 3, has a whole extended comedy bit that goes through the movie where Walter Matthaus is having to deal with a bunch of Japanese businessmen who are touring the MTA subway office, and he literally just insults them to their face because he thinks they don't understand English

all the time, and they're just all like, oh, yes, yes. It's terrible. A Chinese food waiter is Buddy Hackett, not Mickey Rooney. I just wanted to correct that. No, but, no, in Breakfast at Tiffany's, but I connected it to a Buddy Hackett comedy album.

It's fine. I remember even when I saw Breakfast at Tiffany's when I was like eight years old, my mother was like, oh, I forgot Mickey Rooney's in this movie, and I was like, this is deeply strange that this is in this film. I remember what my initial reaction was. I was a small child, and I watched it. I turned what my initial reaction was. I was a small child and I watched it.

I turned to my mom and went, is that illegal? Okay, that's it. Done. I've done my damage for the episode. That's my damage for the week. It's horrifying that you do. Oh, this is the lightsaber fight.

Is that illegal? Ugh. All right. You did it once already. With animation in Uncanny Valley, there's a couple things that are very tough and are sort of like white whales in computer-generated images and 3D animation. One of those is weight. The concept of weight is so, so impossibly difficult to nail down, which is why performance capture became such a huge thing.

It's because it allowed you to have weight built into things because you were capturing truly what weight was. Yeah. Whereas when you're dealing with just like working- An actual human body or whatever. When you're working from scratch, weight never works how you want it to. So that's why in this you see a lot of characters that feel like they're sort of not quite-

Yeah. Touching the ground. You're absolutely right about weight. That's something- It's like a marionette effect. It's like they're being pulled from above. Yeah. The next big element that is a huge sort of like white whale

in terms of the uncanny value of 3D animation is there's this thing, there's a great, I forget who wrote about it, one of the Disney old men talks about it, but like when two CGI,

when two animated characters touch each other, it's sort of like a magical moment because it's two things that don't exist having contact and contact is something we take for granted

because it's like my particles hit this thing. But in animation, it's such a sort of a mind-blowing concept of how to replicate this thing with two sort of, two things that are just projections of what reality is supposed to be. So in 3D animation, when a 3D character touches another 3D character, it's impossibly difficult.

Because logically the two figures should just pass through each other like ghosts. Right, because it's all just data. Or melt into one blob. Right, exactly. Like in The Lawnmower Man. And then even more difficult than that is when... Nice work, David. Well done.

Thank you. Is when an animated character... The community episode that spoofed it was the funniest fucking thing of the year. Of Lawnmower Man? Such a funny episode. I didn't see that. It's really, really funny. You should watch it. Do they have a horrible CG?

Yeah. Amazing. And Keith David. Keith David plays a man who designed a VR computer system that is obviously completely defunct. His name is Elroy Potashnik. It's amazing. And Lawnmower Man, while we're speaking of it, first feature of a CG live action integrated character. Yeah.

And so when an animated character touches a real element, that is also a very, very difficult. Sure, having them pick something up. Or having them maybe, say, hug each other in a diner. Yeah. It's extremely impossible. Great example. I mean, yeah.

And that's why it's sometimes even easier then to just scrap everything and go, let's just make them all CG. That way we have control over it. And then the last thing is... Then there's things like this that are just completely realistic and just completely work and don't seem weird at all. The Yoda fight.

Anyway, go on. And then anything organic is the last time. So that includes lighting, that includes facial recognition. All these little things that we take for granted are incredibly hard to do. And so there's a couple concepts that have gone into

that that they didn't have at their disposal. So the first big one that they didn't have in shooting the Attack of the Clones was motion capture. And performance capture. That is huge. That's huge. They don't have it for like Yoda or Jar Jar or any of the characters. 90% of the cast.

A lot of dialogue. Exactly. And what that meant is that it was much easier for them to create CG everything and then add in the real elements sparsely than it was to have real elements and add in these CG elements to mix because then the CG elements would pop out of the screen.

Whereas when everything's CG, it makes it easier for you to sort of manipulate stuff. But that meant that you ended up in these scenarios where these actors then were put in these giant blue expanses. And they're hitting off of nothing the whole time. They're given nothing all in pursuit of avoiding having that situation where they can't adjust or tweak based on reality. And a lot of that has to do with the technology that they had. And also watching this Blu-ray today, I think the digital elements look so much crisper than the human elements.

Yes. Which I know is just camera limitations at the time. But there's this weird disparity between like when there's a fully digital shot in the movie, when they're like establishing shots of a location, you see ships flying by, you see creatures on the ground or whatever, it kind of looks beautiful

every time. The second you throw an actor in there, it always feels weirdly muddled. It's like you're looking through a pane of dirty glass. Well, what that gets into is basically this was

the first film they shot entirely on HD camera. And the camera they're using shot in 1920 by 1080, which is now what we consider HD, but when we shoot special effects stuff now, we shoot in much higher resolution than HD, because that gives

us the ability to move and change things around. They didn't have that. On top of that, their camera sensors, for what they were using, were much less, had much less information on them, which meant that basically, like, when you, basically, everyone knows that when you record information, it's pixels, right?

And pixels, what it boils down to is if you draw a square on a piece of paper and then draw two lines, so you have basically like three horizontal bars next to each other and make one red, one green, one blue, that's what a pixel is. It's red, green, and blue. And then the color of the pixel is determined by how much red, how much green, how much. That's what a pixel is. It's red, green, and blue. And then the color of the pixel

is determined by how much red, how much green, how much blue is there. And that's all of what pixels... There's also a fourth category, which is transparency or white value, which basically, that means how much you can see through a pixel. So that's the building block

of everything we see on the movie. And these pixels were overdosing on blue because they were photographing 98% blue. Right, so basically if you think about these pixels, right, let's say that 1 means that all the way red. 0 means

no red. And if you think of a TV screen or something like that, if red, green, and blue are completely 100%, that means it's white just because you're getting all of the color information that you need. And if it's ultimate zero, that's black. Now, the amount of gradients

between that, that's what color depth is. So the amount that you can specify how much color there is, that's what color depth gets into. And basically, for these cameras, they didn't have

that much color depth. And they also have what's called digital noise, which basically means in recording all of this stuff, they're sort of, you can just think of it as like data is taken in sort of incorrectly or with less precision. So that creates sort of like this like staticky noise. And that staticky noise interrupts the color depth and the amount of information you have about the color. So that means that if you try to adjust it, it starts looking not real,

which is why cameras now have this, like, they have such high color depth and such pixel density. You're shooting in 4K that basically you can do anything you want with the image. It will still look how it looks. With these cameras, they could do very little with it. They had very little, in film, you call it dynamic range.

Film has incredible, 35 you call it dynamic range. Film has incredible, 35 millimeter has incredible dynamic range. 70 millimeter has ridiculous dynamic range. You could probably, you could take like an IMAX 70 millimeter film and you could like shoot it at the sun and also have like a nighttime scene in front of it and they would both expose properly

because there's so much range in the film. Early HD cameras had absolutely like minimum, minimum, minimum color depth and color range and dynamic range. Like literally it was impossibly difficult to get things exposed correctly. Why did they shoot the movie on this then? Because otherwise if you shoot on film, basically this was the very early days of CG, which meant that

the computer processors they had were not that advanced. So the process of getting- It is crazy in the documentary you see them working on what looked like a 90s big blocky computer.

Yeah, their CRT screens and all this stuff. It's so hard to imagine them making all of this on those. And so what that meant was that

to get these, basically you need all these elements that you shoot to end up digitally because you're going to be manipulating them digitally. So it would be adding another step onto the process. I get it. So what you create otherwise is what's called a digital intermediate where you shoot on film and then you scan that film to digital.

At the time that this was made. Which they did for Phantom Menace. Exactly. At the time that this was made, the digital intermediate process was actually really cumbersome, and it meant that the workflow was much longer whereas this way they could just shoot stuff and immediately bring it into computers and start working with it which is a huge advantage workflow wise to what they're doing but not a huge advantage color wise to what they're doing and um you know with

everything you're saying now i think the movie looks great because like you're the way you're talking it feels like this movie should just look like washed out garbage and it looks okay right and that's that's sort of what i'm saying it It's like they were up against a lot, a lot, a lot. And they did a really good job. From the documentaries, it really does seem like they were working 24 hours a day. They said when they added that, the droid factory scene, everyone had to work like 25 hours a day for like 17 months and 40 billion years. But this is the thing.

It took them three years to make this movie. I know. Max. I know. Right. Between 99 and 2002. That's their window. Yeah. I don't even know when they shot it. I have no idea. I think they started

principal photography in 2000 is what I read. That makes sense. Right. And the other thing to consider is that when they did this, they didn't have at their disposal a few things that are huge now. One of the big things is that was just starting. They did a little bit of it, I believe, in this film, but not so much. When you talk

about special effects, there's this guy that basically created all of modern special effects for 3D live action integration with digital elements, and that's this guy, Paul Debevec, and he's won all these SIGGRAPH awards and all these Academy Awards, all this stuff, because he is a genius. And so

pretty much every technology you see is this guy sort of created, this sort of genius sort of helped create it with his team of people. And one of those big things is what's called HDR illumination, and that's global illumination, which means that when you shoot something in real life and you have it interact with the digital element, you have to have the digital lighting that is theoretical in the computer match the live action lighting. That's a nearly impossible process. It's to hit jar jar in the same way that it's hitting hating

christians exactly whatever and that's what was one of the things that made early cg so impossible to integrate with live action right and why for something like this it's easier for them to shoot um basically like you can shoot a full scene and put a CG element in, or you can shoot a live action element and put it in a CG world. Those both have their pluses and minuses. No, that's your whole argument is kind of like that's why they're mostly relying on a CG world. All of this. And so they didn't have HDRI illumination stuff. They had a little bit of it.

Basically what that is is you can take a mirror ball and you shoot a camera at it and you take all the ranges of exposure of that mirror ball, and then if you take that image of that mirror, it's actually, you're shooting every, because of the way a sphere works, all of the mirror is projecting out the entire scene around you. Like imagine if you're looking at a sphere.

You can even do this if you look at just like a glass ball or something you have like that. Like you see it reflect everything in the room. That way what you do is you have all the information and then in a computer, you basically use math to inversely project that image onto a sphere around your digital scene and then you shoot

theoretical light rays through that sphere and based on how bright or dark things are in the HDRI image, it picks up light and then puts that on your element. If you don't have that, otherwise your best bet is you just have to pick.

I think this is sort of what the lighting scenario was. I guess we'll just put this light here. Which is why I believe a lot of the lighting in this film is really just like this bizarre atmospheric studio lighting. And their skin tone's really off throughout. We've talked about this a lot. Especially in the CG scenes.

The humans look really odd. And there's really no good source lighting in this. If you look at all this sort of like very atmospheric soft lighting, which makes the humans look weird, but makes it easier to render and match lighting for the CG elements. But it creates, again, another step of the uncanny valley.

How come this looks weird? It's because, oh, because that light that's lighting this person in this room that's supposed to be 10 feet high, that light is actually 30 feet high in the studio. And though you don't notice it objectively, your eye picks it up and you go, oh, something's wrong here. I don't know what it is.

And there were just so many elements of uncanny valley in this film that it makes the whole thing seem odd. And the big one being the performances are also bizarre. So then all these visual cues set you off and the performances are bizarre so then you're just lost and you go I don't know what this is or why this is. It's like the most off-putting movie

ever made. You've explained on a technical level why this movie makes people feel weird. They also didn't have subsurface scattering which is basically you have oil on your skin. So when you light something in CG, you sort of create materials. That's the reflectiveness of skin.

But skin actually isn't reflective like cloth or metal is. There's oil on your skin. So what happens when light goes into your skin, it actually goes through oil and then bounces off material and then scatters. And so this guy, Paul Debevec, created this whole system to sort of capture real-life people's skin,

which is why in this, whenever you see it go to a CG model of a person, it looks so weird and shiny. That's because they didn't actually develop this process yet to create this sort of oily subsurface scattering that hadn't been invented yet. So all this stuff, they were just doing by eye, and all the animation they were doing by eye and it was the best

of the best of the best doing it. But man, is it impossible? And they got so, so close. But the problem is they got so, so close. So it creates all those... It looks even weirder. It creates all those uncanny valley flags. It can't look stylized. Exactly. There's I think I'm one of the making of things

where George is like sitting with the team and maybe he's talking to camera at this point. He looks over and talks straight to the documentary or he's with the what's his name? Rick McCollum, the producer. And he's saying like, this is so stressful and this is so overwhelming. I'm paraphrasing here, but he's like, not only is it that, you know, no one's tried to do this on this scale before and has tried to do most of the separate elements of what we were trying to do on this movie, let alone put all those elements together into one project. And so there's a responsibility and the pressure of are we going to make this movie good? But I'm also like breaking the barriers for all this technology to allow other people to use it in the future.

So we really have to figure it out the right way. And you feel like that was the cart, like the horse, the cart leading the horse on this entire movie. Yeah. Is that like everything came from, OK, here's like my rough idea of the movie. What if I want to do it in this technical way and revolutionize how films are made? Well, now I have to distort everything in my plan for what this film is on a narrative and emotional level to fit into this workflow, which is unprecedented. He kind of succeeded, as you pointed out. I mean, he wasn't the one who revolutionized everything, but the fact that he pushed filmmaking into this next phase caused other people to have to step up and figure out how to make

it less weird and creepy. And now these things are able to be done far more seamlessly usually not wall to wall the same extent of fucking georgie porgy's doing because most people realize it's good to have fucking actors responding to things right but there's so many sequences in big movies where everything's done in computer and you it doesn't even really fucking register you can tell but it works and it's seamless enough right but this is just a fucking disaster and so with all of that i ask you jd is just a fucking disaster. And so with all of that, I ask you, JD, is this a good sequel? No.

I agree. Unequivocally, it is not a good sequel. It doesn't sequelize well. It just doesn't make sense. I don't understand it. I don't, being someone who's looked into, looked into all of the outer universe elements of this series.

Sure, you've like, you've really tried to invest in the whole world. Yeah. Doesn't make sense. I cannot follow it. No, no, no. What's the deal with the clones? Where did they come from?

And I will say George tried his best. Yeah. But he put himself in a situation where he created a workflow where no one could help him. No one could save him. There were no actors. No, you're right. The actors were not put in a situation where they could help him.

They could add charm or they could figure out their character. No one could have that. Right. Yeah. None of the teams working on pre-visualization or creating any of the characters, none of them could help him because no one was able to see the big picture except for him because of this workflow. And because of that, he was left,

everyone independently was left out to dry. And as a result, he was left out. No one could help each other. And so the film just was this sort of like mindless thing that took over its own control and just got to the finish line just because the workflow... And because it had to.

Had to, yeah. Because it had to. You mean sort of like how Chancellor Palpatine, given complete power, chooses to militarize, which it feels like may lead to the downfall of the republic? There is a theory out there that has always been stated that I believe truly is that, granted,

consider like the auteur theory of filmmaking where the director is the one whose vision is everything. If that is the case, then there is a belief that every film is truly about the director. I agree. And that is something that I always find very interesting, and whenever I a belief that every film is truly about the director. I agree. And that is something that I always find very interesting. And whenever I watch a film, I always think about that. And I would say this film is no different.

It's about power corrupting people. Yes. It's about someone having the world at their fingertips and— Convincing themselves that they're making the right decision for everyone else in the future. And everyone else being unable to see the big picture of what they're trying to achieve and going along with the flow and then disaster happens. That is true, especially when you get to

the Jedi where it's like, if they zoomed out for a second, they should probably realize there's something nefarious at the heart of Denmark, right under their nose. But they keep being like, okay, well, someone tried to kill Amidala? let's figure that out

like you know it's sort of one thing at a time alright whereas they should really just be asking the bigger questions and now there's a

fucking clone war that everyone has to fight off screen how do you know it's off screen also why this is not in the movie this is the last movie

they made why Jango Fett name his son Boba I don't even we're not gonna talk about that Boba JD thank you so much to talk about that. Boba.

JD, thank you so much for being on the show. Did we introduce you yet? Yeah, I think something close to it. JD, did you see Fantastic Four? No. Yeah, it's really weird. Have you seen it yet? No, I need to see it. How have you guys not seen it?

I'm so scared to watch it. I really want to talk to you guys about it. I sort of feel the same way JD feels, the reason he hasn't watched it. Oh, it's like in a... No, but it is bad. I love Fantastic Four. I love Fantastic Four is my favorite me too

we all love Fantastic Four they have not made a good Fantastic Four film no what do you guys think is the best Fantastic Four film made you can't say The Incredibles Corman

yeah agreed no it's the second Tim Story movie not true Corman Corman 100% I wrote an article Olay Sassoon

wasn't that his name it was Vidal Sassoon's son directed it I wrote a whole article about like why Fantasticsoon, wasn't that his name? It was Vidal Sassoon's son directed it. I wrote a whole article about like why Fantastic Four has been so troublesome to adapt over these years

and then I was like, you know, the Corman film is so kitschy that it actually maybe almost is like almost right on tone. I agree. Can I re-watch the Corman film?

No. It's not a good movie but it gets the tone closer. No, no, no. Perhaps by accident. Rising Silver Surfer gets the tone closer. Disagree.

I didn't see any of the Fantastic Four movies except for the Corman one. Yeah, it's the only good one. And I'm not saying that Rise of the Silver Surfer is abominable, but it still gets the tone

better than the Corman one. Corman movie has a good score and the right aesthetic is executed poorly. It does have a decent score. It's got a really good score. I downloaded it online. And it's,

it's, it's human torch effects are some of the best in the business. Yeah, they're really crazy. I mean, I think the whole movie's special effects budget was clip art, right? Like the whole movie It's human torch effects are some of the best in the business. Yeah, they're really crazy. I mean, I think the whole movie's special effects budget was clip art, right? Like the whole movie is clip art special effects.

It's like you hold a blowtorch in front of the camera, like, stand behind that. Producer Ben, a.k.a. Ben Ducer, a.k.a. Padua Ben, a.k.a. Hello Fennel, a.k.a. The Haas, a.k.a. Mr. Positive. Yeah, what's up? What do you think? I'm hungry. How are you feeling about Attack of the Clones?

Well, I mean, I'm so sick of this movie. We didn't touch upon the sound design which I thought was great. Wonderful. Ben Burtt's very nice. I just wanted to put that out there.

There were a couple sync issues. There were moments where they ADR'd in lines and you could see their mouth moving differently. It's hard. It's a hard, it's a hard, a lot of deadlines. This isn't the 60s and 70s anymore. You can't just mouth moving differently. It's hard. It's a hard lot of deadlines.

This isn't the 60s and 70s anymore. You can't just have a wide shot and put any dialogue you want. They still do that in movies all the time. Are you crazy? Have you guys seen Fantastic Four? The whole movie is ADR. We just told you we haven't seen it, David. We just told you we haven't seen it.

We're in HD. Literally. I can see Senator Amidala's lips moving differently than what she's saying, explaining why they know each other. Ben Burtt still seems cool though. J.D. Amato, thank you so much for being on the show. And also, since we're coming to the end of our run here

talking about Attack of the Clones, I think we should start putting out the email address and see if any of the fans want to... Suggestions of what he wants to cover. Yeah, or even just like... If they want to talk about this movie. Final thoughts as well on on the film in general it's Griffle and Simsburg

no no it's Griffin and David present at Gmail oh and the username you typed in Griffle Simsburg as our name in the Google account

if we sent you an email from this it would say it was from Griffle Simsburg that's true that was Ben's pitch for what we should call this podcast yeah I was totally on board

Griffin rejected it uh J.D. Motta thank you so much for being on the show J.D. what pitch for what we should call this podcast. Yeah, I was totally on board. Griffin rejected it. J.D. Motta, thank you so much for being on the show. J.D., what do you think we should call this podcast? Jedi Poodle. Yeah. Sebulba. It works for any project. Wait, what are you trying to figure out the name of?

Well, we're called Griffin and David Present. That's sort of our subtitle. But this is the last Star Wars movie. We're only doing 10 episodes. We've got two more left. We're going to do other movies. You should do other sci-fi movies. See what's out there.

My brother suggested Blank Check. Oh, I love that movie. Or at least I did when I saw it on the cinemas. Not that we covered it. We call the podcast Blank Check or something. Some variation of Blank Check. Can we do a Blank Check episode? No question.

Yeah, yeah. We already did it. People given complete creative control. Have you guys watched the doc on the making of The Island of Dr. Moreau? No. No, I've heard amazing things about it of The Island of Dr. Moreau? No. No, I've heard amazing things about it. The Kilmer Brando.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to watch that. Speaking of things you've got to watch, all 10 episodes are now on YouTube for the Chris Hector Trust. Is that right?

Yeah, on Friday, the 10th episode will drop on YouTube. So this won't drop until next week. Oh, great. So yes, all 10 episodes are on YouTube.

The 10th episode was tremendous. Thank you. Really tremendous. It's an incredible, beautiful season of television that you've produced. Yep. Thank you.

Hopefully there will be more. It's the kind of TV that actually challenges the boundaries of what a format can do, unlike everything else. Yep. And I would argue. That supposedly does that. Reminds us why TV exists in the first place. I agree. It's supposed to be a method of communication to unite people around our country.

I agree again. That means a lot. Thank you. It's an incredible series. Everyone please watch it. Hopefully there will be more. That means a lot. Thank you. It's an incredible series. Everyone please watch it. Hopefully there will be more. Cop Show Season 1. Yep.

That's on YouTube. All on YouTube or on lstudios.com. And Terry Weathers Mysteries, you do? Monthly at UCB. I think it's the third Friday of every month.

And it's a great show. People should check it out. That is really cool. And 12 Hour Day. And 12 Hour Day. 12 Hour Day. It's sporadic. It's a podcast.

You know, once in a while, right? Yeah. We're recording a new episode this week. Wait, really? What day 12 Hour Day. And 12 Hour Day is sporadic. It's a podcast once in a while, right? We're recording a new episode this week. Wait, really? What day? On Friday. Connor and I are both taking a plane to Colorado together. Oh, I knew about that. For those of you who don't know, 12 Hour Day is a podcast with JD and past and future guest Connor Ratliff

in which they just talk for 12 hours. Every episode is 12 hours long in real time. At least 12 hours. Yes, at least 12 hours long. Most of them have tipped over. Yeah. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you. Ben, thank you so much for tolerating this movie

for another week. We're almost done. So close, so close. And as always... Is that illegal? Third time's the charm, bro!