Blank Check with Griffin & David - Duel

Episode Date: January 5, 2025

2025! Blank Check Year 10! Year of Miracles! In honor of our record 10th year of podcasting, we’re doing something we’ve never done before - going back to fill in the gaps on a filmography we’ve previously only partially covered. And what a filmography it is - folks, welcome to PODRASSIC CAST. We’re starting our exploration of the first half of Steven Spielberg’s career with his remarkable 1971 debut feature DUEL, a movie that was originally made for TV but later released with extra footage for a theatrical run. Driving is scary. Being this talented right off the bat is ALSO scary but in a different way. Beep beep, honk honk. The Box Office Game is Sponsored by Regal Cinemas: Sign up for Regal Unlimited today and get 10% off your 3 month subscription when using code BLANKCHECK Sign up for Check Book, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Killer's Weapon? A 40 ton truck. The victim's weapon? A 40 ton truck. The victim's only defense? A startling podcast! Uh, what's... A trap? I don't know if that's really an act. Spoiler alert!

Yeah, also... Kind of giving away his one move in like minute 82. I was gonna say, that's the last minute. It's not like... That makes it sound like the movie is him constructing an elaborate trap. Right, what if a truck guy tried to kill the most ingenious trapper? Right. Right. Right. It's like Weaver's behind the wheel. He said, what he doesn't know is that I'm really good at setting traps for trucks.

Well, that's almost the eventual sequel duel versus Craven the Hunter. What if this truck we're going after craven the hunter the greatest trap artist? Trapper John MD should go after him. Yeah, he's probably the second best trapper. I know I think young thug is definitely one of our best trap artists. Isn't crazy David to think David You could just go after I was waiting for Ben to trap him with that. Yes, like the M9 Chum on film. Okay. So here's the film. We're pitching. It was waiting for Ben to drop in with that, yes. Like the M. Night Shyamalan film trap. Okay, so here's the film we're pitching. It's a legacy sequel to Duel. Yes.

In which the- Going off of a poster that exists that's not that famous. Somehow the 40-ton truck has returned. The flammable truck itself. Right, even though it blew up, it's back. Spoiler alert. Somehow. Somehow.

And it has to fight a team of good guys, represented by the butcher, Mr. Trapp himself, Craven the Hunter. Yes. What was the joke you made of a Trapp artist? Young Thug. Young Thug. Trapper John M.T. And Trapper John M.T.

I think that's the four. That's the Mount Rushmore of trapping. Correct. This is above all else a movie about trapping. It's just not at all. It's not at all. This is a terrible tangent to start a mini-series on. But here's the thing. It's just not at all. This is a terrible tangents a terrible miniseries The quotes were not good either. No the quotes of this movie are like what's the matter with this guy exactly?

beep Yeah, ready let me try let me try a quote podcast That's me saying the word podcast in lieu of a horn we could also We could always do a pick up later where it's like your inner monologue Oh sure where you're thinking about okay ready the quote ready here's really come on now Start the podcast

There's a lot to talk about. Go ahead. In the film Duel. Duel! Duel! Jewel. Jewel. As the sort of Brits might say. Richard Duel. Richard Jewel.

This is Blank Cheque with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects They want sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby it is

January 1st It's January 5th, but it's the dawn of a new year and this year happens to be the 10th year of blank check This is the start of our 10th year. What you're listening to is the beginning of our 10th year. And thus we felt what better way to kick it off than with six year old unfinished business. Now you guys can't complain anymore because we're doing this.

Now you have no grounds to complain. There's nothing you can complain about anymore. Certainly not in 2025. No. Nothing to complain about out there. The year where everything works. I'm calling it right now. You're calling it? I wish you wouldn't. I think everything's gonna work in 2025.

All my ingenious traps, I said. We're talking about... I think it's eight years ago, Griffin, that we covered... We did in 2017, is that right? It was in... It was... The first episode was indeed January 2017. So you know what's crazy? We were kicking off a certain presidency both times, yes.

Is that what you're gonna say? Yep. Yep. It's crazy. That's wild. I didn't realize it lined up that... It's been eight years... It's crazy. That's wild. I didn't realize it lined up that. It's been eight years. It's been eight long years. Since we on this podcast covered the films of Steven Spielberg, but last time we threw a curve ball.

We did. And we started in the middle of his career. We called it Spielberg, the DreamWorks years. We didn't know what we were doing back then. We didn't know what we were doing. And we covered all of Steven Spielberg's films, starting with The Lost World, Jurassic Park, going all the way through to what seemed like the crowning apex final film he would ever make,

The BFG. Since then, he's made like 18 more movies. We've covered all of those. Yes. But we've never covered everything leading up to Jurassic Park. Right. In Schindler's List. Look, what better way to start off our 10th year than to say I had always thought that Lost World, the Jurassic Park sequel, was his first film ever.

We found out. I recently found out that in fact, the first half of his career was basically a series of the greatest successes any director has had. He's had a couple of hits in those 70s, 80s range for sure. And we're going to talk about them all in the year on. Blank check is given to you. I said this already.

Oh, but the mini series. A mini series titled. Podrasek Cast. Is that right? I didn't remember. Podrasek Cast. Okay, good for us. One more time.

Wow, we're being run off the road for that title. Ben informed us that it took 40 minutes to properly load the truck sounds into Sound Force. Well, I had to track down the right sounds, you know? It's very important. It's not just any kind of truck horn. It's got to be the right one. Well, you're an artist, Producer Ben.

Yes. AKA... Oh, boy. No, here's what I'm going gonna do. Just one of them. Okay. Warhaws. You know what? That's a good way to do it.

If you just did one every time. This is a thing I'm doing for year 10. 2025, year of Ben has one nickname per episode. Exactly. I think that's a nice way to look back and look forward. I love that. What is Ben's David Lynch name? Great question.

Huh, figure it out later. Yep. We're here to talk about. That Huh, figure it out later. Yep. We're here to talk about the early- That will be how we end 2024. Fine. You will have heard it by this point. The films of Steven Spielberg,

starting with this week's film, Jewel. No, a bit of a controversial start in terms of, there is some debate. You know, have you watched the John Williams Disney Plus documentary yet? No. He goes out of his way, Spielberg, to say, my first movie, Sugar Land Express. Which I understand because I think at the time, that's what it was. That was his first cinematic release.

And we can dig into this a bit. And back then they didn't have Peacock, you know, in Paramount+. I can't even imagine. The lines were not blurry. It was like, if you're a TV movie, well then that was on TV. You didn't get-

Can you imagine what it must have been like to live through an era without Peacock? You don't even get to see supersized cuts of The Office? I don't remember. I don't remember. Thank God I was born in the year 2020 and I never had to witness it. I entered humanity. It is weird to think that my children were... Well, they might, I mean, Peacock may not make it. Like I'm not trying

to be rude to Peacock, but it could leave. I shudder to think. But they certainly arrived in a world with Peacock have you have three post peacock children Saying that's a way to think about a demarcation of time. It's been eight years since we covered Spielberg and five years since peacock launched It's banned April 2020. Yeah. Yeah, I mean after the NBC logo. I had no idea. Look the world was grieving a global pandemic had us in its grips. And NBC Universal said we have the cure. There's no vaccine yet, but there is a vaccine for the soul and it's called peacock.

It's a great way to start. What's probably one of our biggest series we've ever done. Jewel! Dual. Podrassic cast. Ben, had you seen Jewel before? a series we've ever done. 10th anniversary duel. Podrassic cast then had David's jewel before. It sounds like you're saying jewel. Yeah.

Have you seen her before? Where's she at? Her hands are small. Sometimes she's in a boat, but they're her famously lived in her car. Right. All right. That's the joke. If that were true, I would have heard of that.

No, I've never seen this before. I caught a little bit of it on TV. I have this distinct memory of it and just being like... What the fuck is this? Yeah, like, this is so slow moving and very, um, everyday interaction. Kind of, it just was, out of context, it was really weird to just catch it on cable TV.

But was it not until you watched it in earnest for this podcast that you realized, oh, that's that thing I saw years ago? Yes, yes. So at the time you were watching it, you did not know it was Steven Spielberg's first film. Duel. No. We are certainly covering Duel,

which yes, was made for television, but then did get years later, well, it got a theatrical release overseas back then. And years later did get a small release in America too. To kind of capitalize upon the Spielberg mania. Who? Steven Spielberg. Steven Spielberg!

Steven Spielberg! So we are certainly, we always planned, if we ever return to Steven's career earlier on to lead off with Jewel, very fun movie about a guy driving a car who a guy driving a truck is mean to. Look, we've covered this ground a little bit before in the history of the podcast, where most TV movies of any quality would get theatrical releases overseas. Because they didn't have televisions over there. They just had fireplaces.

Is that crazy? Peacock didn't exist until 2020. Europe didn't get TV till 98. Yeah. Before then, they just had the radio. Those are just facts. There would be the radio releases of movies. Yes. Or TV shows, or someone would be like, this is happening now. Those are just facts. Yep. There would be the radio releases of movies Yes, or TV shows or someone be like this is happening now

Yes describing it something like Jericho mile the Michael Mann Yeah TV film that we covered on this show and we cover as a bonus right you made a really good TV movie like that They put in theaters. Yeah, the Ewok movies got theatrical releases the Battlestar Galactica pilot Like I said really really good movies. The best movies. But, you know, we have a lot of international listeners, and sometimes they'll be like,

why aren't you covering this as a legitimate film? It got a legitimate release here. It was presented to us as a movie. And I think for us, a lot of it is, how was the thing intended? Right. And its construction, its conception, what did they think this was and dual is this?

Kind of odd example where and we'll back up and we'll get into this more in depth, but he makes this TV movie That's basically his second TV film or I guess a Third in a way we'll get into this, Arizona TV is kind of a smash success. Almost immediately there's a desire to release it in Europe. It is 75 minutes long. They're like, this is a little too short. So he shoots new footage.

Yeah, basically 15 extra minutes. So the cuts are not wildly different, but they are different. They are different. And there's a whole second round of shooting to kind of amp it up to theatrical level, him coming back to it even a little bit stronger as a filmmaker. Then that goes to Europe and then eventually gets a theatrical release.

And since then there's been ongoing debate of do you count this as his first movie or not? And I'm with you David. I think this counts as his first movie. Uh, I do too. Um, but I do prefer the TV cut. Is that controversial? I kind of just don't need the extra stuff. Just leave me in the, you know, leave me, you know, tight, tight. I like it tight. We can get into this.

I don't hate the extra stuff. Yeah. I just don't think you really need it. Did you get the 4K Steelbook? No, I didn't get the 4K Steelbook. I'm struggling. Kind of a rookie. You're struggling right now?

Yeah, I'm just watching movies on my phone while I burp a child. I'm doing my best over here. You know what helped put those twins to sleep? What? A clean 4K transfer of Steven Spielberg's duel. You're saying the movie's boring? No, I'm saying.

Your twin sons would sense the relaxation that comes from being in the hands of a master. Yeah, that's true. Even at his earliest stages, they'd go, oh, this guy knows what he's doing. He knows how to make a picture. Right. And immediately Hongshu Hongshu.

And what more soothing sound than the sound of a truck horn? Ha ha. I Was watching it here in the office before we record it right I got I got my 4k in here it looks incredible It's a beautiful transfer Ben. Would you mind moving this chair a little bit so my remote? Signal can hit just move that chair a tiny bit This is the thing I want to show you because this caused a lot of controversy in the nerdiest corners of physical media online debate, okay? This beautiful, beautiful 4K transfer. A bucical 4K.

It's a bucical 4K transfer. A lot of people like you prefer the TV cut. And they were like, okay, perfect 4K restoration, really treated with respect of the theatrical cut of the movie. And then they listed special features. There's the TV version. That's included, great. It says it's in HD. You have your options.

Yeah, so it's not in 4K, it's in HD. Then you play this. It is the worst AI, quote unquote, restoration. Oh no. It is basically unwatchable. Whoa, yeah. I'm gonna fast forward to a point of movement so you can see this and we can get your reaction live but there's like... The car's moving. I got some credits going here.

It's a nice car. I know it's like kind of a you know. Nice car. Evil truck. Broken down old. Yeah. Plymouth or whatever it is. You can see a little of how waxy it looks. Does look a little shiny. And it feels like they took a standard def file and wanted it to say it was HD, so they like tried to upscale it, but the way they did that was just... Eww! Right? Oh, it looks very odd.

And it gets worse as it goes along. It looks like it has some weird Photoshop filter on it. It does. Like his face looks too smooth. Yes. But then the outline of like the silhouette of his profile is really strong. There's like a black line as if it looks like it's like posterized. Yeah.

Bit odd. Yeah. It gets worse as it goes along unsurprisingly as it like extends into proper action. Right. Wow. Wait, what's going on here?'s it's what I'm almost like is our projector broken like that's what it's making me think It looks like like we like 3d glass right without glasses It looks like this Vaseline on right there's different problems every But it sucks because basically it's like this should exist in a valid form as its own valid I mean, if you just want to show it to me in you know, just standard like TV like fine my point

It's genuinely better to just watch a shitty YouTube version of it then watch this right, right? Yeah Turn it off. Yeah Let's keep it playing so we can give ourselves headaches. David, let's crack open the dossier. Wait a second, it's only one line and it says, go watch the Fablements. JJ, you are fired. No, I'm going to open the dossier so we can talk about an under discussed figure in American cinema, Steven Spielberg.

Steven Alan Spielberg Griffin. Did you know that? You learn something new every day. Like Michael Cera in Barbie. He was Alan. He was Alan. Born December 18th, 1946. Did you know that? No.

What's the sign? Of course that would make him a Sagittarius. Oh, totally. That makes so much sense. So 1941 was a prequel. Yeah, he was... To his birth. Born in Cincinnati, Ohio. Actually, apparently there's been some controversy over his birthday because it's often recorded as happening in 1947,

which is something that Spielberg, I think sort of maybe miss, like helped massage the truth about to get out of a contract. It doesn't matter. This is not important, JJ. Was he maybe pretending to be older when he started his career? He was pretending to be, yes.

But I think he used it, he basically pretended to be a year younger to get a contract dismissed. Or like he pretended to be, yeah, I don't know, it doesn't matter. Steven Spielberg, born to parents Arnold and Leah, no, I'm sorry, no, to parents Paul Dano and Michelle Williams. Yeah, there we go. JJ, big whiff on your part. And Arnold, of course, sorry, Paul Dano went to high school with Leah's brother, Bernie. So that's how they knew each other.

They started dating after high school. And Leah, of course, was a musician. She went to the Cincinnati Conservatory of Music. Arnold was in the Air Force. They got married after the war. And Michelle Williams, sorry, Leah, was planning to be a concert pianist. But she stopped doing it and had three, four kids. Steven and three girls, and Sue and Nancy.

And of course, as we know, they moved to New Jersey and there was like a tornado there and it was all very metaphorical. And eventually they ended up in Arizona and it was to get away from the Seth Rogen. Yes. Because he was so sexy and hot. Yeah.

Just doing the table. And non-threatening. Right. In a kind of a friendly way, but still like there's a real tension there. No, I mean, look, there, it's what, JJ even reached out to us and was like, do you guys mind if I spend more time than usual trying to prepare this first dossier because he was like, it's actually harder for me to pin down the pre-movie career Spielberg story than I thought it would be. And I think part of that is because he was kind of tight-lipped about his personal

life. Until more recently when he finally got into it? Yeah. I mean, there was a lot of him speaking in very general terms, and then people inferring a lot from his films. Right, so there was like, well, clearly this guy never got over his parents' divorce. And then I feel like there was a lot

of psychoanalyzing from him. And then when they did the HBO documentary, whatever that was, Yeah, like, six or seven years ago. Yeah, I remember. He started talking more openly about his relationship with his parents. And his parents are in that documentary together. Right.

Being very sweet with each other, but right, talking about obviously Seth Rogen and that one time she had the monkey and all that stuff. And Seth Rogen was like, why am I getting dragged into this? I never met the woman. Impression fell apart really fast. It really fell apart.

I had it for like two seconds maybe. An early memory, of course. But then Fablemen's, of course, like is the film he made. Yes. Unpacks more of it. But also we should acknowledge Fablemen's is a fictionalized movie. It is. It's it's it's it's

consolidated. It's dramatized. I think it's a lot of it's close. For example, he remembers the first film he attended is The Greatest Show on Earth. Sure. Where he saw the circus on screen and he was freaked out, right? The train wreck, Jimmy Stewart is the clown.

It is. As he puts it, I was disappointed by everything after that. I didn't trust anybody. I never felt life was good enough, so I had to embellish it. It begins his obsession with Hollywood storytelling. This is the thing that I think, certainly we've talked about a lot,

but Fableman's provided such an effective codex for me and understanding him in a way I hadn't before is like, oh, the kind of like core truths of this guy are, one, he is like hyper sensitive and feels things really deeply. Two, the only way he knows how to process those things is through filmmaking. And three, he is kind of scared by how effective he is at manipulating other people's emotions through filmmaking.

That his like prodigious gift is something he doesn't quite understand and that he always feels a little guilty about. Speaking of his parents, obviously as well, the two sides of Spielberg. His father, the technician. Mm-hmm. Precise. Computer obsessed. You know, he was in that movie Ruby Sparks. Of course.

And then his mother, right? Yeah. Sort of the Dawson's Creek of the family, in a way, right? obsessed. You know, he was in that movie Ruby Sparks. Of course. And then his mother, right? Sort of the Dawson's Creek of the family in a way, right? Artistic. Used to date Eddie Braff. Sensitive. That's a big failing of The Last Dance, right? That she's just not in it or talked about?

Her and Reid Scott should be in it. There are a lot of problems with that movie, but I put that chief among them. They don't even try to address her absence, right? There are a lot of problems with that movie, but I put that chief among them. They don't even try to address her absence, right? Steven Spielberg's mother's absence from Venom 3. Yeah, they don't. They're not mentioned. I'm sorry about Venom.

Hey, David. I'm sorry about that. Spielberg remembers at a young age, his dad coming home with a transistor and showing it to his children and being like, this is the future. And Spielberg says that he took it and put it in his mouth and swallowed it. And he remembers this as this kind of like confrontation, like he was trying to be funny, but it was very tense. Spielberg says, it's as if I was saying, that's your future, but it doesn't have to be mine.

Which is funny to think about, because I do feel like Spielberg is seen as a cutting edge filmmaker when it comes to technology for pretty much his whole career. Like it's not like Spielberg is a guy who like takes a while to catch up to she's usually breaking through some big barrier if he's making like a bigger scale movie.

Yeah, he's also talked a lot as an adult, I think especially since his father passed away and he's felt more comfortable talking about his parents without fear of upsetting them. Both his parents died at the age of like a billion. Like they both had these like long lives, which is great. Hey, fantastic. Like his dad was 103 when he died.

And his mom was like 100? Yeah, and like they were right, so... Um, but he said that, you know, I think... His father did not totally know how to relate to people. He was 97. He was like a genius. Yes, very smart, but... Did not relate to people, but was like in a time

where people didn't understand what he was so good at. And Spielberg's like, if he were born ten years later He would have been a wildly successful publicly hailed genius, right? Just maybe slightly early for the computer age or whatever too early without being a Pioneer in terms of discovering the basic building blocks of the thing where he was one of the first people to understand it and know How to do it well But was like a little too late to be the ground breakers and a little bit too early to be the people who knew how

to evolve it. And he just kind of became a journeyman computer guy in the field that then ultimately would end up like ruling the world. He was born at the exact wrong time to just be a kind of like drone, you know, a well-paid, high-level drone. Meanwhile, his mother, apart from appearing on Dawson's Creek, is just like very energetic, childlike. He describes her as this kind of like musical person in all these ways and like, you know, kind of never grew up in a way and, you know,

it's all, just watch the Fablemen. I should also mention that on top of his dad being a computer genius. Both parents by the way just say like Stephen Intense kit like it's like as much as he has mythology parents so much They're both like he was really a lot like he was a really intense kid and kind of tough to wrap your brain This is what I'm saying about like the whole slam on Spielberg for a long time that we I I'm sure, will comment on as we, like, read the

reviews and such at the time these wildly successful films got released, right? Is he's like Peter Pan syndrome, overgrown child, doesn't engage with adult world, is just making hollow entertainment. He's like a slick showman, but he's like dumbing down culture. And this guy is like avoiding adulthood in reality. And I think once again, the movie The Fablements makes it very clear that part of this complex is that he was like brought into an adult world prematurely and burdened with like his parents problems in a way that I think kind of bifurcated him, right? In one way, he's like too aware of the adult world from too young an age, and then feels the need to escape and look back and all this other stuff.

But it also feels like he was a kid who felt things way too intensely as a child, was very burdened by like, you know, a sort of like fear of reality. And it makes sense that like the ability to control the universe around him and make these stories that are these ecstatic expressions of emotions in sort of novel entertaining ways isn't avoidance as much as it's as I was saying before processing. Griffin, oh wait no this is me I'm just doing this solo ad read. Listen, this time of year, people are saying, ho, ho, ho, Merry Christmas, or ha, ha, ha, Happy Hanukkah, or Happy Holidays.

I guess it works for both. But what I wanna encourage people to say is, mo, mo, mo, Merry Movies. Yeah, because this is Blank Check with Griffin David. We love movies, and we are so excited that our friends at Regal are continuing to support the show because if you sign up for Regal Unlimited, which of course is the all-you-can-watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in just two visits, that's one Glick-It, one No-Sonic-Furatu, one double feature you've paid for your

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use code blankcheck. Now I know what you're saying. Oh God, I've heard a lot of Regal ads before. I get it. I know what he's offering. 10% off your three months subscription wrong holiday special 20% off if you use code blank check this is unprecedented 20% off now I'm trying to answer your questions before you ask them what if you already have a subscription what if you're not a what if you don't live in an area with a lot of regals? Here's the thing to think about you got anyone in your life who loves movies you looking for a gift regal unlimited subscription 20% off code blank check and I want to say this as well We've been doing a lot of work behind the scenes to evolve our strategy with advertising on this show to both

Hopefully make a more enjoyable listening experience for all of you and to keep everyone happy and paid at BlankShack Productions. And a big part of that is us being really excited about partnerships like our friends at Regal that feel very on topic of what we do on this podcast and feels like a great opportunity to encourage people to take up and offer to go see movies, a thing I imagine a lot of our listeners really want to do. So if you're looking for a way to say thanks and show support for the podcast,

this would be a really helpful thing to do. Thank you very much. And one last time, MoMoMo, marry movies. Yeah, he, you know, he was intense. There's a lot of stories about it. Anyway, in 1957, he watched the Fablements. They moved to Arizona. Spielberg says his most formative time, he's lived there from the age of nine to 16. Leah, his mom, sorry, Michelle, doesn't wanna move there. Right.

Sees it a bit of a barren wasteland. We should mention also. So she's really struggling at that point. Sure, his dad's best friend was dating a porn star next door and it turned out that he has surprisingly large penis. What movie is that? Roll Next Door.

But who? I thought if I said Next Door, the Paul Dano character. Oh right, I forgot he's in that. His character's name is Klitz. I haven't seen that movie in 20 years. I regret to inform you it's a 10 out of 10 masterpiece. Oh, is that right? Is that so?

You know who endorses that take? I don't. One Steven Spielberg. Oh, he loves The Girl Next Door? Actually loves The Girl Next Door. He likes Luke Greenfield's, the whatever. He wrote Luke Greenfield a letter when he watched it. When he moves to Arizona,

what does Spielberg get his hands on? A camera. A camera. A movie camera. Filming trains crashing together and his mom dancing around. Taking control of his own universe, documenting, reconstructing, reverse engineering,

all of it. It's the tool for him to make sense of everything. his family was Jewish, but what he calls storefront croaker I think we simply double check that I think probably similar to the family my mom grew up in where it's like You know they were a Jewish family. They went to you know they did all the stuff, right? But they were also this like very American post-war family that was trying to assimilate and you know, My dad's family was incredibly similar, but this is also a time. You get your bar mitzvah, you go to synagogue, you keep kosher in the sort of like, you know, kind of like straightforward way, not in like the mega intense way. But, you know.

The post-World War II thing of like, Jews wanting to be American above all else, but they're never going to overcome being perceived as Jewish above all else, but they're never gonna overcome being perceived as Jewish above all else by everyone else around them. Comes up in the Fablemans a couple times. Good movie, check it out. Yeah. We're gonna put footnotes on this episode and the episode notes that are just

watch the Fablemans 27 times. It truly is, when you watch, when you read so much of this stuff, it is kinda like, LOL, watch the Fablemans. Yeah. He had a bully who treated him like shit when he was like 13 years old, and he cast him at that age in a war movie he made

called Escape to Nowhere, because he would make all these little movies with his friends, and that won the kid over. So Spielberg is using the power of movies to be friends with people. In the Fablemen's, the bullying is, they call him Bagelman, right? And they put a bagel in his locker, when we did that episode we were discussing like what do you think the

Actual thing was they were saying to Spielberg, right? And I think JJ dug up that it was Spiel bug they used to make fun of him for looking like a bug Damn, so then he brundle-fly their ass He went into a telephone. He went to his dad and he's like, you know how you get at that computer stuff? As he's a teenager, he has some family in the LA area, sneaks onto the Warner Brothers lot, sees the making of the movie PT-109, which I think is the dramatization of a... Correct, the Cliff Robertson, J.F.J. Kennedy's war service. A pretty solid movie. Sure. Yeah. In 1963, he gets brought brought onto the universal lot by Chuck Silvers, who will be important

later. In 1964 he makes a feature length movie called Firelight. He premieres it at a theater in Phoenix. I think he makes 500 bucks or whatever. There's a whole story about it. It's a list of two and a half hours long. No one has never been publicly consumable. Not viewable except for some little snippet that he's made public I mean, but this is right when his parents divorce. Okay, Michelle moves back east or

No, they moved to California and that's when the divorce happens. Right? That's what it is. I was gonna say we Had talked about wanting to do a Spielberg shorts episode on patreon It feels like Amblin is the only one of them that's properly watchable Which is basically his last short film before he becomes a professional director I Always thought they were more out there because you'd sometimes see clips of them played in like documentaries and retrospectives and stuff But he doesn't let the full versions out there. There's also the weird, very fabelman's-esque sort of origin story of he asked two film-obsessed kids in his neighborhood once he was successful in the 80s and 90s who are making their own

films, hey, can you work on restoring my old Super 8 films which Spielberg retained right and those two kids? I believe were Matt Reeves and JJ Abrams right that is true. They've like sifted through his you know Right so these things have been like restored and preserved Spielberg doesn't let people see them yet yet So he moves to California. I think that's where he was the most bullied, but it's also where he gets the most into moviemaking and stuff he where he was the most bullied, but it's also where he gets the most into moviemaking and stuff. He wanted to go to USC or UCLA, which are the big film schools out there back then, especially doesn't get in because he has bad grades. Instead, he goes to California State College at Long Beach, which does have like some film courses, but isn't really anything so robust enough. So he just starts sneaking onto the lot. He starts working as a production assistant

on the John Cassavetes film Faces. A big kind of turning point for him. Absolutely, he's watching how Cassavetes treats the cast. He's obviously seeing one of the great American filmmakers work that's very interesting. But he's also seeing one of the great American filmmakers figure out his style and his style is trying to tear down How movies are sort of workman like Hollywood? He's seeing the actual guts of the process of everything

And they're varying stories about like to Cassavetes fire him did Spielberg quit like Cassavetes by all accounts kind of took a liking to him, and said some impactful words to him and the story gets like muddy in terms of what exactly happened, but it felt like Cassavetes clocked that Spielberg had a lot going on in his head and seemed to have a lot of gumption and drive. He tries to make a little bicycling drama called Slipstream meets Alan Daviau on that movie who will shoot a lot of great Spielberg films, but they never finished it.

Then he makes Amblin, a 26 minute film that he shot on 35 millimeters. That is sort of his turning point where he presents that. We will, we're actually gonna cover it, because you can see that one. We'll cover that on the Patreon very soon. January 11th. Yeah, in a few days.

But he presents that and gets a deal at Universal, essentially. That short is him basically intentionally trying to make something that can be a proof of concept, sell real. Like it's him trying to level up from his childhood short films to like, this is a calling card. Yeah.

Doesn't get an Oscar nomination for best short. Wow. Something of a snub, but it's well regarded. Goes to Sidney Sheinberg. Names his company after it eventually. Yes, he does. Yes. He goes to Sidney Sheinberg, who is the VP of Television Production at Universal,

basically the most powerful person he has any connection to through this Silver's guy. The Silver's guy is the guy that Greg Grunberg plays in Fableman's, who was... Sorry, I'm sorry, his name is Greg Grunberg. Sorry. But am I wrong about that? I think you're right.

The guy who worked on Hogan's Heroes, who was like a distant relative of his, right? Yeah. And he goes to meet with Sid, and he's like, Sid's like, well, what do you wanna do? How would you like to go to work professionally? He's basically like, sign this contract, you'll do some television, if you do a few TV shows,

maybe you can make a feature film. There were a lot of apocryphal stories for- He sent a seven year contract with Universal. A long time of Spielberg literally like sneaking onto the lot and holing up in an abandoned office. He put his name on an abandoned office. Right, the catch me if you can ass thing, which I think I repeated in catch me if you can episode we recorded eight years ago. But it sounds like a lot of that was overstated that Spielberg was himself

trying to, I don't know, blow up the mythology of his early beginnings and make it sound. Like he was a sort of Leonardo DiCaprio-esque Rapscallion who was banging broads. Much like the real Frank Avignale. Kind of probably made some of that shit up. He was like sneaking his way into a prodigious start, but also then told a story that was even more extreme than the reality. Yes. So what does he work on? He works on a little short called Eyes for NBC's Night Gallery,

which is a Rod Serling sort of follow-up to Twilight Zone. It's what if spooky art gallery and every piece of art inspired will cover that on the Patreon. But the pilot of Night Gallery is like a 90 minute airing in a two-hour block 330 minute segments and one of them is Spielberg's first official Studio directing job which he made with Joan Crawford legendary Hollywood figure And he says she treated me like I knew what I was doing and I didn't so I loved her for that So they had a nice time. Um, but he thought Rod Serling script was bad as much as he loves Rod Serling.

He was like, it was not his best work. I'd agree with that. But he kind of looked at the script and went to Sheinberg and was like, Jesus, like, can I do something about young people? Not like an old lady. And Sheinberg was like, take the job, like just do work, you know? So as much as it's not one of Sterling's best scripts, and we'll talk about this on Patreon,

it is kind of a perfect piece for Spielberg to just test out his visual language. Famously, Joan Crawford called MCA, Lou Wasserman, the head of Universal, and said like, this nice young man directed me just now, I am Joan Crawford and I want to say, I thought he had a lot of talent. Right. It's just fascinating.

Like, Crawford being in this is kind of a, like, last rung on the ladder before, like, death, sort of like how the mighty have fallen kind of thing. Yeah, sure. But what happened to so many of these... It should have been like the late 60s. Right. Like, I mean, so many of the classic movie stars would retire when they were, like, 50 or 60 and spend the last 15

Or 20 years of their life not working And if you did work by and large you'd end up being like TV guest star kind of things like this and it felt like You know that they're making a big deal out of like we got this person But it does feel like they're sort of a relic and museum to a certain extent But like she has enough legendary status that even though her career doesn't have a ton of weight, her calling these studio heads and and similar people and saying like I just worked with this kid and he's got the goods, right, does make everyone take notice. And yet he kind of struggles to pick another project or get something

else done after that. Supposedly, he wanted to make a movie about Thomas Crapper, the inventor of the flush toilet based on a book called flush with pride, the story of Thomas Crapper. His agent says, absolutely not. Ben, can we pause the recording quickly just so I can personally option the rights of that book? If we could just hold for five minutes. Y'all know about Thomas Crapper? I fucking didn't you didn't guess what?

I'm ready to formally announce that I will be directing crapper the Thomas crapper story Famous people think that Thomas crapper is the reason is like the etymology of the word crap. Uh-huh But apparently that's like not true and like the word crap has existed as like old English to mean like kind of You know whatever something like rubbishy so it was him for like millennia or whatever Creating the flushable toilet basically him trying to take back the word. Yes, maybe that was it Oh, yeah, it's been mocking you my whole life. Guess what? I'm gonna do I'm gonna be the one who gets rid of crap faster than you've ever seen That crap is gone. Another thing he starts working on is The Sugarland Express, a film that he will eventually make,

but he's not. We're talking late 60s at this point. He goes to Sid Sheinberg and says, can I go write? No one wants me anyway. Yeah. Write some movies. We should say he does another segment in that first season of Night Gallery. I guess so. He's not mentioned here.

It's just not mentioned here. I'm just telling you for a fact he did. Maybe that came later then, because I'm trying to understand what this kind of, you know, pause that he went on is, because he's really complaining about, yeah, that wasn't until 71. Oh, interesting.

So that's a little later, right. He goes off and he writes some stuff. He wrote apparently a dog fight movie like a World War two movie Okay, we're at a comedy about life and the cat skills. I love to see that. I was also called crapper Yes He wrote something called ace Eli funny and Roger of the skies which does exist and he has a story credit on never seen it Oh, oh interesting. I feel like JJ texted me about this if I had ever seen it before because it's like one of the only It's like a adventure movie with Cliff Robertson again. Yeah pilot. I don't know

I feel like Spielberg has gone out of his way distance himself from it to the extent that I had never heard about it until JJ texted me about it. He disowns whatever the movie was. He's like, that's barely, you know I got a story by credit because that's how it goes, but they had changed it by the time they made it. Yeah story by credit because that's how it goes, but they had changed it by the time they made it. He comes back to Universal and then he does another segment of Night Gallery, some TV shows, Marcus Welby MD, The Psychiatrist, an episode of this show called The Name of the Game called LA 2017 that you've been trying to find. Now this is the thing I love, it used to be on YouTube in full, it's now seemingly gone, taken down by Universal, but Name of the game

was a weird, I think they called it a carousel show, that was this old format that used to exist to lure more substantial stars into doing television without the commitment of doing 22 episode seasons. They design a show where it's like, it has three different leads, and it cycles between a couple different casts, so each of these stars only has to do seven or eight episodes a season, right? So it's already this show that's not an anthology, but is a little piecemeal like that.

And then there is just this one episode that Spielberg directed that's ostensibly a complete standalone, basically outside of a framing device, has nothing to do with the rest of the series, and is just a weird dystopian future movie It is the first feature-length thing he ever directed. It was 75 minutes long. Sure. It's called LA 2017. It rules and I've seen it. I saw when it because it went up on YouTube a couple years ago and people were like this is kind of secretly

Spielberg's first movie cool and it's a lost time. That show just is kind of completely forgotten. It's never been released on DVD or streaming or rentable digitally or any of that stuff. And there was this one YouTube video that now Universal has taken down. Of course, he also directed the first regular season episode of Columbo, not the pilot as people sometimes, you know, the pilot had already been made, but it's the first episode once Columbo goes to Series and it's of course called murder by the book similarly 75 minutes. It's like that's the feature link fish But it's a Colombo. It's TV movies that will air within 90 minute block and dual was intended to be the same kind of thing

When he's hired to shoot his episode of Colombo Oscar-winning cinematographer Russell Meddy, who had shot Spartacus, and I think was a bit of a hard ass because he followed Kubrick on that movie, who's Kubrick famously easy to get along with, said, he's a kid, does he get a milk and cookie break? Is the diaper truck gonna interfere with my generator? I mean, funny.

Pretty funny. It's pretty funny. But, genuinely, generally, he impresses people. When he works on these TV shows, he kinda just blows people away. Peter Falk said, like, we had some good fortune making Colombo, like our first episode was directed

by fucking Steven Spielberg. Like, obviously not famous then, but now you're kinda like, dang. David? Yeah? You know for a fact That's not how he said it. Let's face it. We had some good for David at the beginning. Go ahead Just commit a little hard. I can't do fuck Why my Fox sounds like

The oldest version of Bob Dylan. The thing he remembers... Yeah, one more thing. The thing Falk remembers is that, like, they're shooting one scene where he approaches someone on the street. They shoot it, and he's like, where's the camera? And Spielberg is like, he realizes, like, across the street with a long lens. And he's like, you know, that's not something you did on television. It's this fucking TV show, I'm gonna make the doughnuts.

Spielberg considers his best work to have been an episode of The Psychiatrist. Interesting. So maybe we need to watch the... I don't fucking know. Anyway. He's saying we need to devote episode time to it, but maybe we should watch it. It's a job, though. Making these TV shows is a job. It's not an art form for him. He doesn't have the passion. Obviously, he's, you know, the stories are more schematic. He has to work in a tight schedule and all that. He really wants to make movies. On to Duel.

Richard Matheson, famous writer. Would you call him a famous writer? Yeah, what else would he call him? I don't know. Legendary writer? Uh, I mean, he is pretty legendary in that he wrote, -"I am legend." Heard I am legend. This is true. Heard of it?

Yeah. But this whole generation of guys who were like incredible short story writers would write longer length things as well, but like incredible short story writers who then went to Hollywood. Apparently the day that JFK was assassinated, he was golfing and he drives home and he gets harassed by a big truck Okay And this experience the second most tragic thing that happened that day this experience has him right down on like the back of an envelope Like story idea truck chases man on high that's how all these guys work where they were just like you just fucking sit at the

Typewriter every day and you write 8,000 pages right and then you write these little stories. Any half idea you sell it to Playboy which this original story ran in Playboy magazine He pitches it to you know TV people and they think it's a little too limited not enough there He gives up on it writes it as a short story in Playboy magazine Well, I only read Playboy for the naked pictures, so I never noticed the article.

This is the problem. Apparently Playboy magazine has words in it. As someone who, I will confess, has never really read an issue of Playboy. Like, I know the old joke was I read it for the articles, right? And Playboy had genuinely great journalism and all that. Was it like kind of just at the back of the magazine or was it kind of interspersed? Ben doesn't know. When I was like, when I was in high school, I was a penthouse guy.

I just was, I was born after one fucking red spanky magazine. I also think by the time we were growing up, Playboy was, the articles had less juice to them. No, I know. Yeah. I think Playboy even in the 90s would still have these glitzy writers. Yeah, we have like Leonard Maltin doing like serious interviews of people and shit. When I was in high school, Lola Kirk, past and future guest on this show, was like, you're

a horny boy, I'm giving you a vintage issue of Playboy for your birthday as a present. For birthday. For birthday. I had one vintage issue of Playboy that I hid in my closet. That I remember having a multi-page Laney Kazan spread. Hey. Where I was like, this is kind of weird to look through

when my Big Fat Greek wedding's only like two years out of theaters. Sure. But that was like a 60s issue of Playboy that I would leaf through and genuinely go like, oh, this did actually used to have good articles. Sure. No, I'm sure it did. It felt more like...

Richard Matheson's duels. Right. It felt like New Yorker with like nudie spreads and some hornier shit. Yes. Yes. So it goes into Playboy and people notice it. Steven Bachko, right? Famous TV writer.

Yes. Is like, this should be a movie. Brings it to the attention of a TV producer. Universal has a deal with ABC to make TV movies. Yeah. These slots existed of just like TV movie of the week and they're making tens of TV movies Every year so they're looking for old things that could be remade for TV rip from the headline stories short stories

Original scripts from budding writers. There's just like there are slots to fill TV movies are gonna get made when are they programmed? like there are slots to fill, TV movies are gonna get made. When are they programmed? Prime time. Like prime time, yeah, movie of the week, right? Like all these channels would have their own movie of the week slot, and they'd be competitive slots. It'd be like one network airs a movie every Monday night at eight or whatever.

They'd be among the highest rated things, but it also was kind of like a way to establish a farm team to like test out new directors and writers and things like that, to test out new stars. Also like stars they had under contract on long running shows who were frustrated being pigeonholed into one role. It was like, oh, we'll let you do a TV movie.

You stay under our umbrella and you get to flex some other side of yourself. So it makes its way to Spielberg. His secretary at the time, Nona, Nona Tyson, throws a Playboy in front of him. Spielberg says he starts laughing and she's like, don't look at the girls, read this short story. It's right up your alley. We should note that also at one point Spielberg met with David Lynch and David Lynch told

him the horizon needs to be this way or that way and all that stuff happened as well. No, he... He's a two-year-old David Lynch. Yes. Yeah. I guess he was fucking 25, whatever. And he's into it. He calls someone up and is like, I want to do this. I want to talk to you about it. He calls up the producer, George Eckstein. George Eckstein sees him,

as he was known, Spielberg at the time, as Scheinberg's folly, right? What was ABC thinking or Universal thinking, hiring this, like, child to this long contract, and now he's not doing much, right? He does, Eckstein needs a director, so he's like, all right, come in for a meeting. Spielberg shows him some of the Columbo episode. XT's like, you'll do, essentially. We need somebody.

Initially, he's like, can we have no dialogue? Like, can it truly be silent? Yeah. And I think, you know, at a certain point, ABC is like, there's not enough room for this kind of arty stuff, but, you know, like, no, we can't do that The movie might be even cooler with no dialogue. Certainly no internal. Can I make my case? Yes, a lot of what's added for the theatrical cut Are a lot of the like dialogue interludes of him interacting with other people, right?

Him calling his wife. Yes, some of like the gas station stops and shit like that. Obviously not the bar scene, right? I feel like, and I'm happy that Spielberg has not gone back and recut this movie, but I'm sort of like, it makes sense that they insisted on putting the certain amount of voiceover internal monologue stuff in here because they were just like, you cannot have this be completely wordless Right in the version that has a couple dialogue scenes added. I'm like if you then took out the voiceover That's probably the perfect version of this movie. I Just think there's nothing in the voiceover and stuff that

Really tells you anything you don't already know. No, I agree with that. And it's also just because you could get why on a writing level, they were like, there needs to be some dialogue to keep people hooked. What they couldn't have counted for is you're dealing with perhaps the greatest visual storyteller of his generation, a guy who can figure out how to convey all of this just in images and editing. So, like, everything that's being said in the internal monologue, he as a... He's 24 at this point? 23? How old is he? When he makes Duel, the film came out early... Yeah, he'd be like 22. 22, yeah.

Right. You could just be like, if you're fucking Scheinberger, whoever, you're like, kid, there has to be some dialogue in this. And even just, it's airing on TV with commercial breaks and whatever, people are going to turn off the TV. As you said, you're flipping through the channels you see and you're like, what the fuck is this? Within that context, it makes sense. Once you've opened this thing up and let it breathe and you're like, we're going to play

it in a theater and we can air it out, every single thing that's happening visually underneath the voiceover parts completely conveys what the voiceover is saying. Right. Yeah. I will say, I agree with you. I think that's the perfect version. Yeah.

But I would say what really puts it over the edge for me is if there was a moment where it freeze on the truck and then it said truckus menus and then it froze on the Pontiac and it said like Pontiacusus goodus. Ben, one trillion comedy points. Thank you. Here's another thing, Ben, in terms of just like

what the ecosystem was for this sort of like TV movie of the week culture. Yeah. He was given 10 days to shoot this. He went over. It was 13 days. Right. And as a result of him taking the extra three days, he only had 10 days to deliver a cut

to them. Oh, man. Like the turnaround on these things, because there just was one airing every week, was as if it was a TV show episode. Basically. Even though these were running as separate productions, and they had their own stop and start, and they weren't part of the factory line

of an ongoing series, it was like, you delivered this to us in like less than a month from the moment we hire you. Spielberg wants Gregory Peck. Yeah. An icon for him. Uh-huh. Peck says no. Not surprising. I think Spielberg knows that if he'd gotten Peck,

maybe this could have leapt to the big screen. Certainly he would have gotten more than ten days. They're not interested. It also makes sense with his Joan Crawford history that he's starting to like strategize about like, I can gain some heat from proving myself to these legendary stars in their autumn years. And then they'll call people for me. Right, they'll see that I respect them

and that I know what I'm doing and then they'll endorse me and whatever, yeah. But I feel like Weaver, Dennis Weaver, who they cast. Is perfect, Dennis. Yeah, because you need someone who's a little nebbishy and kind of ground down. Like if it's Gregory Peck being like, there's goddamn trucks in my way,

I'm like, no one's gonna fuck with him. Like George C. Scott. You know, like, rah! Weaver's characterization is fascinating because this is a thing that like to its credit is not telling you too much about this guy. Right. And yet Weaver's performance is really specific

where it doesn't feel like he's just a stand-in. And yet there are certain things about him that are a little hard to pin down. For sure. You're like, this guy's like a weird combination of like a little arrogant and glib, but also kind of like, nebushy put upon. Yeah, does this guy have an anger thing

or is he kind of right? A little bit of a pushover. A pushover who's like. He's like both at the same put upon. Yeah, does this guy have an anger thing, or is he kind of right? A little bit of a pushover. He's like both at the same time in oscillation, which means that he's really compelling to watch because you kind of don't know how he's gonna react in any given moment. Now, Dennis Weaver, it was on a little TV show called

Gunsmoke, which is the, at the time, like the longest fucking running thing ever, right? Right, and Simpsons is thing ever, right? Right. And Simpsons has now, like, gone 20 years past. Right. But more recently, he had sort of had a bit of a revival on this show, McCloud, which I have never seen, but it's an NYPD cop show where it's like... Was that Darren McGavin?

No. I don't know. It's Dennis Weaver. He's McCloud. Okay. Why do I think Darren McGavin was on the show as well? Darren McGavin- Weaver was McCloud. Weaver was McCloud. Darren McGavin, I think the thing you're thinking of is, I don't know.

I don't know. Mike Hammer. Maybe. I don't know. Who could fucking say honestly? McCloud is, it's like he's like an old kind of cowboy type cop from New Mexico. Right. And now he's in New York. So he's probably always like, you know, did a cow do this? And they're like, no, it's New York City, baby, beep, beep. I assume that's what the vibe was. Actually sounds like crime for a fucking reboot.

Kind of does. Why are people not fighting over the McCloud? Yeah, it feels like modern day McCloud would kill. Spielberg likes Dennis Weaver, who's got a little juice because of MacLeod, because he's in Touch of Evil, as the sort of sniveling night watchman. Yeah, the motel attendant.

Right, so he's kind of like, maybe we can get a little of that energy in here. The twitchy kind of nervous, yeah. Weaver says his agent called him and said, they're gonna send you a script, say yes before you even read it. And Weaver's like, what? But then he got the script and he was like, yep, I get it.

But it was hard to shoot this movie for him because it's all him driving and very little dialogue. It also just bears repeating. And there's a lot of him going like, what the fuck? Should I get over? David's doing an incredible performance right now. It just bears repeating. I know everyone listening probably knows this,

but the Rio Grande line between television and film was so fucking thick at this point. Right. Right, like it was just in terms of like the class and esteem associated with the two, and especially for any actor, you really had to be strategic in these moves of like which one are you.

If people started in film and then went to TV, it would be hard for them to make their way back. You know, and if you're a guy who is like doing smaller parts in film, but then became a leading man on TV, you know, it's like, is doing a TV movie doubling down, all this shit, I don't know. It's a pre-peacock world. Thank you, that's like is doing a TV movie doubling down all this shit. I don't know.

It's a pretty peacock world. Thank you. That's an easier way of putting it. Um, they look at a lot of cars. Casting the cars is kind of the biggest thing they have to do. 71 Plymouth Valiant and a 1951 Peterbilt for the truck. Uh, and they kind of customized the truck, I think, to make it look a little scarier. You know, they, it's all crudded up with brown paint.

I was gonna say, by customizing, do you mean they just threw dirt on it? They put bugs all over the windshield. They put some tanks on the doors, I think, to make it kind of have more of a face, you know? And so they wanted it to look like a monster. And yeah. This truck looks perfect. It looks incredible. I don't like that truck's vibe. I hate it. And so they wanted it to look like a monster. And yeah.

This truck looks perfect. It looks incredible. I don't like that truck's vibe. I hate it. It also says like flammable on it or whatever. And you're like, yeah. Yeah. This is conjecture on my part, I admit this. Dennis Weaver is the star of a great Twilight Zone episode.

Which one? It's called Shadow Play. Oh, sure. It's a guy trying to avoid the electric chair. Right. And just knowing how influential Twilight Zone was for Spielberg and Weaver's in kind of a similar position in that, a guy who's trying to like figure out his way

out of a seeming inevitability of death, you know? I could see that also being another thing that factored into the soup for him. David! Yes? I just heard something mind-blowing. My mind is blown.

What's going on? Netflix, have you heard of them? Yeah, of course. They have more than 18,000 titles globally. Oh, that's impressive. Oh my god. Wait, but what? Only 6,000 of those are available in the US. Ah, you're missing out on all those shows Griffin. This is the problem. The overseas shows. They're all kind of hidden. Unless, unless you use ExpressVPN. Yes. Netflix, for example, hides content from you based on your location. All the streamers do. ExpressVPN lets you change your online location. There we go.

So you can control where you want Netflix to think you're located. Look, I understand it's a frustration sometimes for people who listen to this show. We go through careers in order. We have a very set schedule. There's a movie. You see it's on the streaming service you have. You go, great, that episode's coming up in six weeks. I'll watch it then.

And you come back six weeks later, it's been pulled down. Where where to go hungry. Can I find it? Well sometimes that's the answer Sometimes they're hiding the movie in Hungary Netflix has servers in over a hundred countries So you can gain access to thousands of new shows never run out of stuff to watch if you use a VPN like Express VPN This works with yeah, Disney Plus. Yes, the iPlayer and more you fire up the app Hey, you click one button to change location. You just pick where you wanna be. Works on all your devices, phones, laptops, tablets, smart TVs and more.

And you can stream in blazing fast HD speed with zero buffering. It's not throttling anything, okay? It's rated number one by top tech reviewers like CNET and The Verge. ExpressVPN also keeps you private and secure by re-roading all your traffic through an encrypted tunnel. Like Coraline. We tend to focus on the... just like Coraline's tunnel. No, we tend to focus on the streaming

benefits because that's what... No, but it's security. It's security as well. And sometimes, look, maybe you're traveling overseas, you want to watch your favorite show, but that streaming service isn't available in the country, and then you can pretend you're back home. Have you watched anything Griffin? You have any examples? One to two, maybe? Yeah, I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to spoil.

But our next mini series has a director whose stuff is really hard to find. Several films are just weirdly gone, not on any streaming service, not rentable legally through digital platform. Interesting. And then suddenly I'm going like, oh, well, well, Disney Plus in Belarus is looking pretty nice about now. That is fascinating. Yeah. Yes. Okay. So it will be expressly useful for expressly.

Expressly useful. Listen, here's what I think. I think everyone should be smart. Stop paying full price for streaming services and only getting access to a fraction of their content. What you should do is get your money's worth at expressvpn.com slash check. Don't forget to use our link. That's expressvpn.com slash check

to get an extra four months of ExpressVPN for free. And then all you have to do is you open it, you select your country, you tap one button to connect, you refresh Netflix or whatever, and then that's how it works. That's how it works. It's great. David, this episode is brought to you by Mubi. Mubi!

We love it! It's a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe from iconic directors to emerging auteurs. There is always something new to discover with Mubi. Each and every film is hand selected so you can explore the best of cinema streaming anytime anywhere. But here's what I really love about Mub about movie. What David, they're invested in the culture. They don't just advertise on podcasts and they don't just stream movies. They put things in theaters.

They publish magazines and they put out checks notes here. Podcasts. And I'm saying they are putting their money where their mouth is by covering, well, on their award-winning movie podcast movie podcast is starting a new season season 7 box office poison It's gonna tell the story of six films that were notorious financial disasters, but have come to be celebrated as visionary That's visionary. I'm just saying you're fancy. Yeah. No, it was very fancy. It's based on the Tim Roby Just saying you're fancy. Yeah. No, it was very fancy. It's based on the Tim Roby Why they were mutuals on Twitter Tim Roby the film critic for the Telegraph in the UK He wrote a book called box office poison. So we got host

Rico gagliano using his research to research. Yeah to tell some wild stories about these films And they're rising they're falling their rise. What are the movies? Well, it's a good list. It's some movies we've covered on this show and some favorite of ours that we have not covered. Sorcerer. We will cover one day. Bay Pig in the City. We have covered.

Sylvia Scarlet. We're not sure about that one. The Hutsucker Proxy. We'll probably cover one. One of my all time favorite movies. I know. Synecdoche New York, a mutual favorite of ours. I think we'll get there.

And Speed Racer. We covered it. Guests include master cinematographer Roger Deakins Oscar nominated actor James Cromwell, that'll do legendary screenwriter. Wallen green. Okay, SFX pioneer John gator love that guy critic and podcaster Corina longworth for the show passive future guest movie star Rebecca Hall stole my heart. Yeah UK comic deenia genius Jamie Dimitriou. He's all over the place.

And Tim Robie himself. Very good. Six episodes, released weekly on Thursdays from November 14th until December 19th. And don't forget to stream great movies on MUBI. Like Andrew Arnold's bird now streaming on MUBI. Now they phrase it here as the long awaited return to fiction filmmaking. It's been eight years. And the last film she made, scripted feature length film, she made, was your favorite film

that year? 2016 Blanky's David Simms winner American Honey, best picture for me. Yeah. Great movie. She also made Fish Tank, which I feel like a lot of people have seen. She made Red Road. She made Wuthering Heights. and her new movie is Bird. It's a tender and compelling and beautifully surprising coming-of-age fable about life in the fringes of contemporary society.

Kind of her strong suit. That's absolutely right. Yes. She finds very interesting ways to explore right communities you might not see on film as often. You know what's another thing I love about movie? They, in their copy, for the first time, have answered for me definitively, how to pronounce the name of the star. Go ahead. This film with its buzzy cast,

features, Barry Keown. That's right. Don't say the G. We know him from Saltburn or, I mean, Franz Rogowski. The Banshees of Inisheeran. Oh, sure. Anyway, but yes, and then you've got from Saltburn or, I mean. Franz Rogowski. Ben Chies of Inishear.

Oh, sure. Anyway, but yes, and then you've got Arthouse favorite, Franz Rogowski. Yes. Franz Rogowski from Passages and Transit. Andine. Great movies. One of my favorite movies of the last couple of years.

And then, plus the revelations for a central performance from a newcomer, Nikaia Adams. Another thing, Andrew Arnold has quite a track record. Right! Latest in a series of notable debut performances from Arnold, you got a canon of formidable female characters vying for freedom from oppressive systems, you know, you had Red Road, of course, you had Kate Dickey. Mmm! Oh, no, sorry. Well, yeah, Red Road was Kate Dickey.

That wasn't a discovery. No, that wasn't. But in Fish Tank, you had, um, Katie Jarvis and in American Honey you had Sasha Lynn and she's still you know she's still crushing it seeing Sasha Lynn all over the place. New York Times called it a beautifully shot delicately moving coming-of-age story Little White Lies said it's a magical energetic Marvel from one of the UK's finest filmmakers and David wouldn't know anything about that. She's the best and the movie is really, really worth seeing and it's really great to have a new Andrea Arnold movie out there. BIRD is streaming now, exclusively on MUBI.

Additionally, you want to stream some great films at home? You can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash blank check. That's M-U-B-I dot com slash blank check for a month of great cinema for free. Burk! Burk! So they make Duel. Spielberg insists on shooting it outside. They want it to do soundstage.

Yeah. And it's a big fight. And like he went over schedule as you say, three days over schedule. Right. Which is maybe the equivalent of going three weeks over schedule on a TV and a real film, a feature film. How could you do this on a soundstage? It would look shitty. It would be so bad. It would look like a janky TV movie. Yes. But there's like, look, I love Twilight Zone. And a lot of Twilight Zone episodes are very ambitious.

Uh, in terms of what they're aiming to depict, because that is a show that didn't have, like, a home base kind of rotation of sets it could reuse. There's like a great Hitchhiker episode of Twilight Zone that all takes place on the road, and there's very little, real car footage. Right. And most of it is just like a close-up of an actor in front of a rear projection screen behind a picture car, you know? Sure. They're like, you could see how they were just like, look, don't overthink this. This isn't a real movie.

Like Spielberg fighting to make this 50% more of a movie than they want it to be, results in him over delivering on the product, which then commits them to be like, fuck, film some more and make this even more of a movie. Right. Yeah. He's doing lots of master shots, less TV closeups, he says, you know, he's trying to be wider,

make it feel more cinematic. There's like crazy camera placements in this that's the he's the king of blocking yeah but but beyond that king of blocking obviously right it is like the weird kind of just like bone-deep preternatural skill this guy had they call him the king of movies they call him the king of blocking no I was gonna say beyond him just being great at blocking, there's shit where you're like, oh, the camera is like mounted to the grill in this sort of like side profile shot of the truck with the car behind it and shit like that, where you're just like on a TV

movie schedule budget resources crew, you choosing to do a setup like that is like, you're gonna have to sacrifice in exchange for putting your foot down and be like, I want this shot, I want a crane shot, you know? Like in exchange for doing that, the payoff is you get fewer setups somewhere else or fewer takes of each setup or whatever it is, but the guy just like he had the fucking vision. But he shows the script, the film to ABC and they're mad that the truck doesn't blow up because it says flammable, right? On the truck. And they think about shooting a new ending that's more explosive. But no, Spielberg had said, like I want more of like a slow death where the truck kind of suffers

and basically kind of like bleeds out. I mean, it is an incredible shot. Exactly. Yeah. And then Duell comes out. Oh, it's also got a really cool score. Obviously pre John Williams for him, but Billy Goldenberg, sort

of this like Bernard Herrmann, you know, knockoffy kind of score. Yeah. But I mean, yeah, John Williams starts on Sugarland and then is his guy save for five movies. Yeah, save for just a couple of times. Duel gets rave reviews, average ratings. Richard Matheson says he was flabbergasted by how good it was. And George Lucas has this story of,

he was at a party at Francis Ford Coppola's house. He'd met Steven Spielberg maybe, but they didn't know each other that well yet. And he's like, the movie's on, that movie he made, and they're watching it, and then like, at this party, everyone starts to like, lock in on the movie. Like, instead of just checking in with it, like everyone just sits down and watches it because they were like, this is really fucking good. Yeah.

I mean, look, I'm gonna throw out a take here. Go ahead. This isn't a perfect film, right? Yeah. In its best sequences, it is just like astonishing. Agreed. I mean, which is basically all vehicular stuff. And not just its loudest sequences. No, which is basically and not just it's loudest sequences

No, right, but it's mostly when you're on the road But some of the construction of some of the sequences you're just like how the fuck is this guy's first movie? Not only is it just the level of skill? But you're like most people it takes two decades to cross the arc of developing the skill then they get ostentatious with their craft and and then they learn how to, like, pair it down and get Spartan and Unshoey with it and just communicate. A lot of people, it takes over ten years to do that. And the first move, he already has this confidence of, like, an old master.

My big take is, I think you watch this, and in the construction of the big showcase moments, the big set pieces, the big sequences, whatever. I would contend like he arrived fully formed as an action filmmaker. He has better action sequences later in his career, but I'd argue those are largely a product of, he knows how to build a better movie

around those sequences, he has better resources and collaborators, he has better tools to play with and more time and whatever. I don't actually think his basic craft and understanding of how to put images together to create tension and excitement evolves past this. Like I think- Right, you're basically like-

He was fully formed. He's as good then as he was now. It was basically everything else rose to his level And I think he says like he watches duel all the time and is kind of like yeah fucking crushed it He now like studies dual trying to be like how did I do here right exactly? Because I think it was also in such a state of panic where he has to put this together So quickly with such limited resources, but also he knows, like, this is his big chance to show himself, that this movie almost comes out of, like, just, like, a flow state for him.

As much as it was meticulously storyboarded and everything, he was just like, I just knew exactly how I had to make it. And he just kind of, like, put his foot down and got it done. And he proved his fucking point. Like, it totally worked in the way he needed it to. Yeah, it's a great movie. I saw Duel on TV, I think on the BBC, the B-B-C.

B-B-C. When I was 14 or 15 years old and I had my Empire Magazine Spielberg edition, Empire Magazine put out a special Steven Spielberg edition once that had all of his movies like with two pages devoted to them, you know, whatever. And so that's probably when I first learned about do, oh, did you know like before ET or whatever, you know, he made this TV movie and I remember watching it, like seeing it in the listings and being like, I want to watch it. I'm a

young cinephile. Yeah. And then watching it and being like, that rocked. And feeling really proud of myself for like, having done that. My parents did not like Steven Spielberg. They were... Newman's fucking up again. I know. In the 90s, I think they were...

That was a very popular time for people to kind of turn against Spielberg. Yeah, 100% of course. No, once he wins the Oscar for Schindler, especially, I think people are like, it's like when the Red Sox won the World Series, where people are like, alright, can I stop hearing about you now? Enough of this. Right. And he used to be good, but now he's so maudlin and so manipulative.

There was sort of a feeling of like, look, we can't deny Schindler, but everything else he's made in the last 10 years is a failure to recapture how good the first 10 years were. Right. And they were sort of like, you know, by mid-'90s, they were like, Spielberg's awash. But I remember within that, despite being a child who was shown E.T. and Close Encounters very young

by my mother as like, these are important and having like a massive effect on me both. I remember saying to me, you know which one is good, his first movie? Sure. When she was in her sort of like Spielberg socks phase. And because she grew up in Europe, humblebred, she I think she must have seen Duel in theaters presented as like a movie properly. Well we've already mentioned TV didn't exist.

TV didn't exist. Right. So yeah, I remember her telling me about it fairly young and just describing the premise in the way that kind of excited me is like, wait, and that's the whole movie? She was like, yeah, it's just a nervous guy and this truck starts following him. And I'm like, why? You don't know. Who's driving the truck? You don't know. It's just this guy going crazy and this truck coming after him. And I'm like, why? And he's like, you don't know. Who's driving the truck? You don't know.

It's just this guy going crazy and this truck coming after him and there's no explanation for it. And it's like thrilling. So I think, yeah, I probably rented on VHS when I was 10 or 12 or something. Cool. Yeah, it rolls. Ben, did you like it?

It's so impressive how much it's a movie and how much you're on the edge of your seat. But I think the first point especially, but it's like, it doesn't feel like a TV movie really. No. Partly because the limited scale makes sense. So you're not seeing it push against a budget it can't. You know what I mean? Like, you're like, it makes sense for it to be fairly stripped down.

Well, there's a focus to the story, but then he's pushing to expand the scale cinematically. And he does. And he does. Like, all of my problems with it are just when it's him, you know, kind of flutzing around in various locations. Yeah. Not that I think those parts are bad. It's just the only time you kind of feel the movie trying to fill out time a little bit.

Yeah. Yes. You know, like the confrontation in the diner... It's a diner, right? With the guy he thinks is the trucker. It's just one of those scenes where you're like, 10 seconds in, you're like, well, this isn't gonna be the guy. We're halfway into the movie, he's not gonna like go face to face with the truck driver. Yeah. And it just kind of goes on for like a few minutes of him being like, well, this isn't going to be the guy. Sure. We're halfway into the movie. He's not going to go face to face with the truck driver.

Yeah. And it just kind of goes on for a few minutes of him being like, hey, buddy, can you cut it out? And the guy's like, what are you talking about? Hey. But. Should I call the cops? The chunk of that sequence with him walking in

and recognizing one of these guys must be the guy. And that part is fine. Five stellar minutes of just this guy looking at people sizing them up visually weighing the pros and cons of it could be this guy it couldn't be this guy looking at their boots looking at their boots I think that's a really interesting way of like yeah how can I like read into a person through like yeah the way they have selected their boots, what color it is, how dirty it is.

And then he's running through the mental exercise of approaching each of these guys and confronting them and imagining how they'd react. Like, all of that stuff is fucking incredible. And you have to think also in the theatrical cut, Ben, that's like the first sequence where he's talking at length. Yeah. You know? Like, because the opening, which I think is really good, the opening credit sequence in a theatrical cut of the POV of the car,

that is all added. That was not part of the original TV broadcast. And I think is just like really immersive, sort of dropping you into the world. As much as that's the POV of his car, it's an interesting way to start in the perspective of a you into the world. As much as that's the POV of his car, it's an interesting way to start in the perspective of a car on the road and get you into the headspace of a road movie and all of that. But then like the phone conversation with the wife

is added for the theatrical. Like a lot of that early stuff is added. So the length of that scene and how long it goes on makes a little more sense if you think you're watching a broadcast that's been going on for 30 minutes and this is the first time that the movie's kind of stopping long enough to settle you in. The wife call I don't need. I definitely don't need that.

The less the better, right? I don't want to know who's driving the truck. I just don't think that stuff... It's not bad. I think to its credit, it's not too overstated. No, it's not. Youated. No, it's not. You can imagine the worst version of it. They had a fight or something.

Well, and the fight is about, like, him not standing up enough. It's like, this guy's kind of just a drip. It's a bit of a drip. It's also, there's stakes kinda in that he needs to be home in time, because his parents are due at the house for dinner. So he's, like, expected to be home, and he already has had a fight with his wife.

I think his reactions to all this stuff characterizes him well. Like it's not like, I don't think it's valuable, like backstory shit or like table setting in that way, but I do think you get a lot from seeing him react to some other shit before the truck really enters the picture of just like, this guy's just kind of annoying. He's not a bad guy. I think it's key that it's like, this guy didn't like, this isn't the manifestation of some curse on him.

This isn't his comeuppance. He didn't run over a little toy truck. Right, like Matheson wrote a lot of Twilight Zone and that's what differentiates this from a Twilight Zone or something like that. That there isn't the supernatural aspect to it. This isn't like a cosmic balancing. It's more just giving you a sense of why this guy

is particularly ill-equipped to deal with a situation like this. His personality defects are like a perfect stew to completely fall apart when face to face with this. Right. It's scary because of the random act of violence. Sure. Aspect to it.

But also that it's like meaningless. That's the scariest thing. Beyond that, as a driver, and you're a driver too Ben, Griffin's not a driver. Debatable. Just the weird... He's driving on the highway of life. Yeah, and I drive the conversation.

That's right. And we're all kind of surfing the information superhighway. This is true. Sometimes I wish they'd put a speed limit on that thing. You know what I'm saying? Right, that's not... Maybe do some paving. I cite that as proof that I'm a surfer, not a driver. But it is a highway. Yeah, but I'm surfing. You not right. That's maybe do some paving. I cite that as proof that I'm a surfer not a driver

But it is a highway. Yeah, but I'm surfing it. You're right. It is weird that right They're like we're gonna call it the web spider web. Yeah, and you surf it Why do you serve it doesn't matter? If you said surf the web to anyone under the age of 20, they'd be flummoxed Is that I think it would be like me being like Hello, my baby. It's just like they'd be like, I guess I know what that is, but you sound like an old timey man on a penny bicycle. I wonder if they wouldn't even know what it was.

Maybe not. And I'm like, that was the entire way that the internet was talked about for 25 years. The web. Like even that. If I was like, oh, the entire way that the internet was talked about for 25 years. The web. Like even that. If I was like, oh, did you find it on the web? People say web 3.0 though a lot. That term's thrown around enough that I think people know. Now if I'm saying it to the good madame, she would know.

Madame web. Yeah, she would know. And we should of course acknowledge that her web connects us all. And sometimes I do be surfing it, it. Hopefully on peacock. Yeah holding an unopened pepsi can With my red my red goggles Say madam web to this year. Yeah, madam web 2.0. Yeah, can they just Mean first of all the titles right there for the taking say, look, we're recording this episode in November.

It will come out in January. I would say the green load on Madame Web 2.0 largely depends on whether or not it gets the best picture nomination. We're all in November predicting it will. We're all assuming, right. It'll squeeze in there. But by the time it comes out in January, who knows how the fates have changed. Right.

Maybe like more than 10 films actually were released in 2024. That would hurt it. If it turns out that there are more than 10 movies eligible. Sony's crossing their fingers that the year is going to close out at nine. No one releases any movies. No, I think look, if I can be fair. And maybe I'll sound foolish here. I'm making a bold prediction about the future.

As far as I'm concerned, Sony has one of the ten spots reserved I think whether or not Madame Webb makes it in is Largely dependent on the response to Craven right if the trap is set one of the five greatest trap artists in history So As a driver that was my point right there is a sort of You know, like there's the kind of like rules was my point, right? There is a sort of, you know, like there's the kind of like rules of the road, right? You know, and then when someone starts being aggro, or even just like, crosses in front of you, you know, cuts you off in a weird way.

Maybe they don't even mean to be aggro, but they're just doing whatever they're doing. It is kind of fundamentally creepier than, because you can't talk to them, right? You can beep your horn and you can go, hey asshole, and like shake your fist out the window or whatever, but like, you do start, if someone's being weird on the road, that immediate spiral of thoughts of like, what's going on with this car or truck or whatever.

And trucks are scary. Driving with a truck is scary. If there's some big assass truck on the highway, I wanna get away from it. I don't wanna be near those things. Can I contribute some non-driver's thoughts to this conversation? Yes.

Everything you just said are high up on the list, all of them, high up reasons for why I am terrified at the idea of driving. You're scared of driving, yes. And I wonder how much seeing this movie at a young age also contributed to that. I don't think it was the formation of that. There's lots of movies with cars. But this movie just depicts ten things I think about a lot as like, why would I ever do that?

Yeah. I don't know if you want to get somewhere. I grew up in the, I think it's, yeah, the most densely populated state. New Jersey's very densely populated. Garden state. It's really, you know, major car culture, lots of traffic, lots of road rage. Growing up, my dad warned me, if someone is getting really crazy and out of sorts, do not fuck around. Yeah, don't engage or just deescalate or get out of there

or whatever you want. And there's so many of those stories, too, of a guy pulls a gun or a knife on someone. You know, when they both pull off the road and engage each other. For me, it's like I go through the tunnel, I'm smoking my cigar. And it's like the go through the tunnel and I'm smoking my cigar and it's like the factories and then we're in Newark and there's like Pizzaland, right?

And then it sort of starts to get more and more suburban. This happens after you woke up this morning. Yeah, and then I go up my driveway. And it's kind of like this metaphor for like, you know, how the times they are a change and even in like the modern crime world. You can take a quick stop at the Bada Bing. Right, right, right. The thing you're saying-

You ever been to Pizzaland? I haven't. It exists, I think it's still there. I've been to the strip club. You've been to the Bada Bing, the Bing. Did you disrespect the Bing? I would never. Good, okay, good.

I would never, David. He disrespected the Bing! The thing you said, David, about having this sort of like emotional interaction, this visceral interaction with another vehicle, but the person being kind of anonymous, right? It's like so much of the road rage thing of like, if you pull up to someone to be equidistant to them, you want to fucking yell at them quickly, or like flash them a bird. Part of that, I think, is the idea of being able to humanize them and being like,

I'm angry at you a person. I need you to be a person. It is what is so evocative in this movie, and I feel like Spielberg has said the thing he locked into when he read the story after quickly leafing over some pictures of boobs was that it's like fear of the unknown. And the thing, I think one of the smartest decisions

this movie makes is like, there's a certain logic to the idea of maybe you don't show any part of the driver at all, because is what, is the scariest thing having no glimpse of the person. Right, it's just this machine. But he will give you these shots that the Dennis Weaver character wouldn't be able to see from inside the cab of the truck of his foot, of his arm, you know, of his hand on the wheel.

It's always sort of fragmented, but it's like clear shots from almost the driver's POV. And I feel like you need to do that because the movie needs to underline like, this is not supernatural. This is not like a monster. This is just some guy guy and that's what makes it even scarier is his His motivations are inscrutable. They are in beyond inscrutable unknowable. They are fundamentally unknowable There is no rhyme or reason to this is not doing this for sport. Is he insane? Is there some backstory you don't know what it doesn't fucking matter? I mean just placed in this guy's reality Is he insane? Is there some backstory you don't know? What, it doesn't fucking matter. You're just placed in this guy's reality,

which is why the fuck is this happening? And I don't even really have time to consider that because I'm just trying to survive. But it's easy to figure out, or to start spiraling over, like, well, is it that I kind of passed him and hung my horn at him being a jerk? Is it that I'm this, you know, whatever, city slicker in my red Plymouth and he's like

a salt of the earth rust. And he just has rust and flames. He's just moving some rust and flammable flames. I do have a picture of the driver if you want to see him. They did provide one picture of him if you're interested in the picture I want to show you. The picture I showed Griffin is, if you want to say Griffin. It's Russell Crowe in the film Unhinged. Right, which is like the opposite of this movie. Yeah. Where it's like, what if that happened to you?

But rather than it was this unknowable sort of question of like, what does this represent or who is doing this? It was like a large Russell Crowe going like, fuck you, I'm going to kill you with my car, the whole movie. Right. And he's essentially the hero. So you cut off the wrong guy, motherfucker. I do think that's one of our friend Richard Lawson's best jokes ever on the 10 years of

this podcast. I believe it was in the witches episode where we were doing the box office game when theaters had not really reopened of what was in the top 10 the week the witches went on HBO Max and unhinged was number one because unhinged was basically... Yeah, Solstice Studios released it on like 40,000 screens because there was nothing available. I think it beat Tenet by one week to be the first new wide release. And you said like unhinged number, number one, two million dollars, and Lawson said, which is pretty good gross

for a documentary. Rawr! No, he's not the hero, he's a villain. I've never seen Unhinged. I've seen it, he's the protagonist, but he's a psychopath. Okay, it's a falling down type. Yeah, it's like what if you were, you know,

somewhat aggressive. What if they broke you? No, he's already type. Yeah, it's like what if you were, you know, somewhat aggressive. No, he's already crazy. Like with a guy behind the wheel of a car and then it turns out the guy you did that to was Roided up on rage, not on steroids. But who's that guy? Who's the guy he's chasing in the movie? I wish I could remember without looking it up,

but unfortunately I can't. This generation Gunday is. Here's the thing I want to... Do you know Karen Pistorius, that actress? Oh, interesting. Slow West is the... Yeah, I don't know. I want to state an intent here.

2025, I'm going to really up the number of G-Gunday references I made. Oh, get him up there. I think it's a perfect time to start reclaiming Kim G-Gunday. Do you want to bring up the movie Bad Johnson? I think it's a perfect time to start reclaiming Kamji-Gande. Do you want to bring up the movie Bad Johnson? Yeah, that's a movie in which I think Nick Theun plays his penis. It's a comedy in which Kamji-Gande's penis comes to life and is played by comedian Nick Theun.

These are fun names to say Kamji-Gande and Nick Theun in the penis comedy Bad Johnson. Bad Johnson known as Schlonglong story in some markets. Yeah You tell me this film was in multiple markets. I don't know There was a Deadline story recently announcing a cam G gonde Kellan Lutz movie and I texted David and said This is like the Pacino De Niro heat team up of dog shit And what did I say? I can't remember. I Think I said the dollar store version. You maybe said it was the penny Anyway 2025 is the year's again day comes back. He's back dual. He'd be good in a dual. Yeah, sure Let's do it. I want to ask have you ever had a

scary road rage instant like Not no. No, Like not, no. No, I would say no. I've never had a thing where I'm like, oh my God, this person is like, this is unsafe and this person is gonna attack me.

Have you been? I've had like aggressive drivers fuck with me or yell at me or, you know, I've had shit like that. No, I have this one with the truck that has really, it still stands out to me as one of those things where I'm like, this was a close call for me. Okay. I wasn't the driver, but I was in the car.

We were coming back from Hartford, Connecticut. We went to a Dave Matthews band concert. So you were just riding high on being cool guys. We were probably, yeah, definitely one of the, it was one of the coolest moments for me in my life. Well, you're already on edge because if you're driving back from a Dave Matthews bank concert, there's always the risk that you're going to get hit with his shit truck. That's a real road risk.

If you go and take an underpass, you might get DMB poo dumped all over. Has that become their legacy? It's like, oh, he's a respectable artist, but that is one of the funniest things that's ever happened. Anyway, go on. And we were on 95, we were kind of like heading basically towards the GWB, but at some point split off. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Going towards New Jersey. Right. And I don't know, maybe he pissed off this tractor trailer. The tractor trailer went into our lane and we almost swerved into that, like, you know, those like yellow plastic barrels that like, Yes, the exit. Protect you from crashing.

Filled with water. Yes, we almost crashed into that truly. It was like the truck really almost led us to crash. And he was doing it on purpose, for sure. It was very scary. This is a dual time kind of situation. Yeah. And we slammed on the brakes.

And it was very close to us getting into a terrible car accident because of this tractor trailer. And as it drove away, it honked. And I've gone by that intersection many times coming back from New England and I think about how I really could have gotten hurt. Watch your backs out there, Blinkies. The mad trucker reigns supreme. Here's another thing.

I pull it up on my iPad because it is a tough Slightly tough movie to talk through because it is so much just like oh wait. I'm sorry Thank you I love how Ben futz for 40 minutes on his console. It was worth it that paid You're 10 blank check. Year of miracles. Soundboard is back. Kamji Gundai references out the butt.

Early Spielberg. Jelly Trilogy on Patreon. It's all happening. 2025. 2025, year of miracles. I love it. David. Yeah. 2025 year of miracles! I love it. David! Yeah?

I've suffered a great loss recently. Oh no! A profound loss. Half a tooth. Oh, that's true. They sawed half your tooth off. I had a coronectomy. They cut my tooth in half.

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Q-U-I-P dot com slash check. Getquip. Q-U-I-P dot com slash check. Quip. Quip. I love the use of talk radio at the beginning of this film. Sure. He's driving. They do drop it a little bit.

Yeah. Which I think is largely because Spielberg wants to be able to make the most out of silence, which he employs very well in this film. It's interesting, the John Williams documentary, he credits John Williams with teaching him the power of pulling back and living in silence. That he will often say to John Williams, like, I think this is a spot where we could use something and Williams will be like, you might want no music under this and Jaws was like an example of that where he was expecting wild wall score and Williams at certain points was like you want nothing here

But he's already got such a good understanding of it in this one You have such long stretches without him using the score in the score. This is totally solid. I think it's a good score pretty strong Yeah The score in this is totally solid. I think it's a good score. Pretty strong. But the talk radio at the beginning is interesting because it feels like a smart way to keep dialogue going while not feeling the need to like over explain this guy. Which is, to this movie's credit, that it's like not trying to pathologize him too much. I know what you're saying of like the dialogue scenes added for the theatrical push push it a little more where like the less you know about this guy, the better. But I do think it's basically the right amount,

save for the internal monologue shit. I don't feel mad to learn a little bit. I just don't think you need it. But I also know that it's like at that point, you're getting to be more like a 65 to 70 minute movie that's just car action Yeah, and there's only so many ways to ramp up the tension of one car one truck, you know, and so yeah No, it's a good movie. It's a really well-constructed movie. It's like it has the juice I'm just like sort of running through it here. So you have like, you know the opening credits from the car

The his drive, him listening daytime radio, then he pulls into the gas station, the truck pulls out next, he only sees the boots. He has the initial thing with the truck, where he passes it and it roars past him and all that. And then yes, then they're at the gas station, sees the boots, calls his wife, they talk that out, the guy at the gas station who's just a great,

back in the day, man, you pull into a gas station, hey, fill her up with ethyl. Yeah. Ethyl, ethylmerman? Yeah. My first question. Two, can I, the guy is just like, can I lift the fucking hood?

Cause cars back in the day, I guess it's just like, I don't know, this thing could explode any second. Guy says, you need a new radiator hose. He's like, forget it. But that's Chekhov's radiator hose, right? That'll come up later. And you have like a lot of the- At the diner, he fucking orders an aspirin.

Oh, sure. He's just like, can I have an aspirin? Like, yeah, I'll get you a fucking aspirin. It's just back in the day, you could just be like, my head hurts, cause it's the 70s and I'm drinking like, you know, multi-lead or whatever. Aspirin was on the menu. Yeah, it might have been gratis.

Yeah, it probably was. Asking for aspirin was like a cup of water. No, Spielberg, the phone conversation starts on him and then in like the foreground of the shot, a woman... The laundromat, yeah, opens the... Yeah, you're like, oh, this space is also a laundromat. It does a good job in sort of that like taxi driver phone conversation way of just kind of like immediately

sort of emasculating this guy or like decentralizing him. You're like, the movie isn't even that concerned with him. He's having a conversation to explain himself and the movie is like, yeah, but more important shit's going on. He's in this woman's way. She's trying to get her laundry out. But I agree with Ben that I like that the conversation

sets up like, okay, there's like a time crunch. His wife's already giving him the business about like, are you gonna make it home in time? He's acting like so beleaguered by everything, right? Like my boss is asking me to drive out to meet, but also my wife's haranguing me about the idea of not coming home in time before I've even made the drive out. And also she's complaining about the fact that I didn't defend her enough at like a

work party where it felt like she was being sexually harassed and he can't really defend himself. Like you're just like, this guy is just kind of nothing. It is the thing I love about 70s shit where you watch this guy and you're like, I get that this movie is trying to code him as lame. If this guy walked into a bar today, he'd be like, that's the coolest looking guy I've ever seen in my life. Now he looks cool.

The glasses are cool. The staff looks like one of the sabotage cops, little bit. The glasses especially. Yeah. But you're like, this is a guy who's trying too hard to be hip. And then right, then he's back on the road and then this is when shit really gets scaled up. Here's a thing I find interesting about Spielberg, and I get into this a little bit on our Jaws

episode which will come out in a couple weeks. This is like an interesting time for film, right? This whole kind of like new Hollywood transition point. Sure. Of studios being like, maybe we don't know what the fuck we're doing anymore. Right. Hey, yeah, the coplay, you want to make the rain people?

You know, yeah, exactly. The kind of shit that results in Sheinberg being like, I don't know, give Spielberg a five-year contract. We don't fucking know anymore. The old models aren't working, right? And you look at this point in time And there's like a lot of the kind of like old master guys who are really struggling to keep up with the times Figure out how to stay relevant right you have guys like Otto Preminger and like

Billy Wilder who are just like hitting a wall in the 60s and are just like I I have not figured how to keep up right in the 60s and are just like, I have not figured how to keep up. Right. Someone like Lumet, like transitions beautifully, right? Comes out of like 50s TV, understands how to become more relevant than ever in the 70s. But then this whole like era of, you know,

the movie brats coming up and even like, you know, Altman and Cassavetes who were older and had already lived a lifetime to a certain extent, both of those guys were obsessed with like, kind of ripping down tradition in a lot of ways. They're like, this is all creaky. It's too staid. You need to make this feel like relevant and present. Then you have someone like Bogdanovich who's like, we lost our way. We got to get back to the 40s. Bogdanovich's whole thing is like, we need to get more classical in a certain way. And then Coppola is still figuring out his shit at this point. Scorsese's figuring out his shit.

They're both in this zone of trying to make the movies they think they need to make to gain the cachet to make the things they want to make versus Spielberg who wanted to be an entertainer first and foremost and Is viewing any piece as like an opportunity to show his like skills, right? George Lucas wants to do a subalba movie of course working towards that. Yes, Coppola wants to do Megalopolis he's working towards that right Yes But Spielberg is this guy who is able to pull from the most exciting new things that are happening

while also having this encyclopedic knowledge of the entire history of cinema. This is a movie of a guy using incredibly classical tools. He's not fighting against tradition. He's also not stuck in some pastiche. Yeah, but he's right. He's definitely not tearing down, right? No. But he's like a fascinating bridge point at an era where most people were kind of picking aside. I do think there was this sense that something's changing in which wall down and

sort of stay the course. Yeah, sure. Well, it's what I think was like impactful about him being on set for Faces for a couple days and being like, oh, there's maybe a different performance style here. But not being like, this is how I want to make movies, independent of the system. Right, but are there pieces of this I can take and put in? And a lot of his love of John Williams

comes from him recognizing John Williams' work in early Altman movies. So you know he's paying attention to that stuff, you know? Hmm, I didn't know that. I think there's something- No, you just watched the documentary. I did. You know everything. But I also knew that like Williams was an Altman guy

before he was a Spielberg guy. I mean, he made like several Mark Rydell movies, which I think is where Spielberg said he really clocked him and then said like the second I have a budget to make a real movie I'm hiring John Williams but when he made Jaws he used the images score as his temp track. Is it a good score? The images score is like a discordant like I mean images is like you like Altman's repulsion. It's a good movie. It's a great movie, but it's like-

I just haven't remembered the score. Old woman going crazy, mostly inside her own brain and inside her own house, and it's like clanging noise and constant sounds. He did the long goodbye score? Yeah. And I want to say, did he do Countdown? Did he do maybe one of of those other early early ones before Altman really had his voice?

Not Countdown. Not Cold Day in the Park. I feel like there are three Williams-Altman scores, but maybe I'm wrong about this. I think there's only two. Okay, well then I'm wrong about it. Unless he did like California Split or something, but I don't think. Anyway, it just looks like it's those two. Okay, I mean Williams was very close with Altman and Williams' first wife died filming California Split. Huh!

Which is like a weird fact I didn't know until I watched the documentary. Died how? Of like a completely inexplicable brain hemorrhage. She was 41 years old, she plays like a barmaid in California Split. Yeah, it's a wild story. Anyway, my point is Spielberg is just this guy who's in this very interesting position at the right place and time to know how to synthesize

all these different philosophies of what filmmaking could be and he made them cohesive. And even in this movie, it's like, as you said, you can imagine the Gregory Peck version of this. That's the more obvious overstated version of what kind of performance exists in a movie that is mostly on a guy's face. A thriller of a guy being chased, right? And you could see the more obvious old school philosophy is you need a Charlton Heston-esque performance to overcome the size of the story. you need someone emoting out the ass. Yeah, and incredibly, not bad, but over the top,

like, right, sort of screen dominating, like Gregory Peck. There's an effectiveness to that, right? But like, he's getting a more naturalistic performance out of Weaver, and the thing I love the most about this performance is when it starts, Weaver is kind of doing this gritted teeth, nervy tension, stress thing, right?

Yes, it feels like it's gonna be a movie about like they broke this guy. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which they do, but the way that is dramatized, I would argue, is the second half of the movie, his face largely goes slack. It's like at the halfway point, it's like this guy is so overtaxed now by the circumstance that he's not even emoting anxiety or tension outwardly.

It's that thing where you're so exhausted that you just kind of go blank. Yes. Because also he's just like, I'm not going to convince anyone that this is happening to me, it's not gonna stop. He's in pure survival. Right, and I just have to, you know, eventually he's like, I just have to beat him. And he looks more panicked.

With kind of the most ingenious trap of all. And haunted because of that. But most people would think, oh, hey, Dennis, we need to start it too, and by the end of the movie, you're absolute biggest. And instead he starts to numb down. Yeah, which is fine because the action is getting more intense. So you almost don't need him to be yelling and shaking his head.

Reflected in reality. Yes. That's an interesting point, Griffin. Thank you. Every once in a while I have one. I mostly think of this movie as just kind of like, brr, brr. Well, actually, Ben. A lot of that. Yeah. And I guess the first time I saw it, which may have been the only time I've seen it,

I don't think I'd watched Duel since I was a teenager. I was even more like, enraptured by cars, not in that I thought they were cool, but just there's like, I can't, you know, I can't imagine being in this scenario. I'm not driving yet. Oh, sure. Like there's something like fearsome about like, yeah, what do you do if some trucker asses you? Whereas I look at those shots where it's like the camera is mounted behind the rear wheels on the side. I'm like, this is the most terrifying machine ever created. Why do we let people drive these?

Now I'm just kind of like, yeah, I would just go to a diner and fucking chill out I guess he tries to do that and it doesn't work But he also picks a fight in the diner, but this is right. This is like the failing of this guy I mean, yes, you understand why from how he is basically characterized in the first 30 minutes that when he gets to the diner and He sees the truck pull up outside or rather the truck's already there, right? Yes. So he pulls up, walks in and is like one of these guys is the guy. He can't get fucking over it. It gets him so in his head to have to

reason with the idea of this being a person even if that person is still abstract. Right. And then you just know he's never gonna get over, like, so what do I do? I try to wait this guy out, but then maybe he's waiting for me. Or I get in my car and drive away and try to get a head start, but then he'll catch up to me. Like at this point, the idea of the guy

and how inexplicable he is has grown so much in his mind that it's like, he's never gonna get over this. Right? And this is the, quote unquote, this is the supernatural element of it too. He could drive for two hours and be like, is the guy eventually gonna? We all accept that he cannot practically shake this guy.

Even if I'm like, yeah, check into a motel for the night. The truck needs to go where it's gonna go. We're all kinda like, no, the truck would just still be there. The truck would still be there. And he's trying to do the math of like, okay, my only move left is to make a direct plea to this guy person to person.

How do I talk to him in a way that stops him from following me? But you live in his anxiety of being like, do I try to tough guy him? Do I try to like make an impassioned plea? Like, what do I do? And he can't fucking figure it out He can't ID which guy it is and he can't figure out the right way to talk to anyone and the way he does it

Ultimately only shows how rattled he already is where it's like there's no way this guy's shaking this off He could get home safely tonight and he'd still be terrified that the truck would drive through his bedroom window like at this point Safely tonight and he'd still be terrified that the truck would drive through his bedroom window like at this point He's fucked he stops at a gas station that has a bunch of snakes Tries to call the cops there. Let's call her what what it is a gas station with a snake lady Yes, a snake lady. She's got a spider too. I think truck destroys the or two, I think. Truck destroys the phone booth while he's trying to call the cops and spread snakes everywhere.

Right. Best line of dialogue is the woman yelling, my snakes, my snakes, my snakes. Maybe. She's kind of a queen of the creepies. Is that fair to say? Because she's got snakes? Well, and a spider, as you said, I think that makes her queen of the creepies. Love that she's running that kind of roadside attraction type of place.

Hey, you bored? Need gas? Want to see some snakes? I've got them. Any money you want to pay for this, honestly, was fine. Yeah. The most Wayne's World part of this movie, though. Yes. Where it's like, no, it's not just that he runs through the phone booth while he's trying to call cops. It's like also there's snakes. Now there's snakes.

Ah! Yeah. Oh, one thing I wanted to mention, because we just skipped over it, but I think it should be called that because it's so funny, is when he gets to the diner, he like kind of crashes into a fence. Yes. And causes enough of a commotion that the people in the diner notice. And at one point, the guy who works there asks him something like, what happened? And he's like, it was complicated or something to that effect.

And the guy goes, it looked complicated. And he has that old timey movie pattern. And it just like really plays for comedy. I love that moment. It's very funny. Well, we also brush over one of the best parts of the movie. I mean, he's like living in the shame of like accosting this guy at the gas station

and being like held apart, right? Held back from him. Yeah. And then he sees that the truck is pulling off. He tries to run after it, and like, what are you even doing? Right, what will happen? Right, then he goes back to his car, and he comes across the stop school bus, which is just an ingenious ploppy of like, they're asking him to help push the school bus.

And what are you gonna do? Not, you know, help a stuck school bus? And as far as he knows, the trucks got a major head start. It's ahead of him, but he's so fucking panicked of like, should I stop moving? Can I help them? What's going on here? And then the truck comes back into view. And it's sort of this feeling of like,

is the truck gonna kill the school bus? Is it gonna go after the school bus? Is it that evil? Or is it just about him? And there's like great Spielberg editing of him getting increasingly anxious by the noise of the children. Just like completely meaningless, innocuous children like laughing and playing and yelling shit that to him is just driving him insane.

That is added, right? That's part of the... The whole school bus sequence? Apparently the added stuff, according to what I'm hearing here... Opening credits, the phone call with the wife... ...is the call with the wife, the school bus, and then some of the railroad crossing stuff. Okay. Yeah, I mean, the school bus, I think, is incredible. It is good. So maybe, yeah, maybe I should swing back

to pro-theatrical cut. Yeah. God, the school bus, I think is incredible. It is good. So maybe, yeah, maybe I should swing back to pro theatrical cut. Yeah. God, the train incident is so scary. Yeah, that's right after the school bus. Another thing that, again, you're just sort of scared of as like a new driver, where you're like, I can just like drive across the railroad. There's just a line.

That's allowed, and there's just like a little wooden fence stopping me. Yeah, it is crazy. But my favorite thing is like, he sees the truck pulling back right and he's like fuck I gotta go I can't help the bus anymore, right and they're like what he's I'm gonna die He looks like a coward he runs off Yeah, how ring in fear and then the truck comes up behind the bus and helps the bus right like he is so fucking That the bus big times him just to make him feel

even worse about himself and then sets on its way and now it's like now my sights are back set on you and then it goes straight to the train sequence. Yeah, the train sequence is right after which is, you know, the train, the truck tries to push him in front of a train, I guess is the best way to put it Yeah, and then That's when he tries to slow down and everyone's pissed off at him And it's like it doesn't matter the truck just reappears over and over and over again, and then it's the snake lady. Yes Yes, yes And then it's the old people who he tries to talk to very Spielberg. Apparently he used that couple again in Close Encounters. Okay. But it's just, right, it's a great way of showing like this guy can't

interact with human beings anymore. Right. Him asking for help seems suspicious now because he's been like wound up so thoroughly up by this. If anyone approached me like a rest stop and was like, hey, I know this is gonna sound weird but this one truck keeps appearing and harassing me. Yeah. I would just be like, hey, I know this is gonna sound weird, but this one truck keeps appearing and harassing me. I would just be like, you sound crazy and what am I supposed to do about that? Right, except he's saying that with the energy of, you gotta go to the police right now!

The cops trying to kill me! If he called the cops and was like, hey, there's a brown truck, they'd be like, okay. Anything else? I'll give you money! But then it's like like they see the truck come and the truck is more antagonistic towards the old couple in a way where they're also freaked out by it,

but also like we gotta look out for ourselves. Yeah, we gotta get out of here. We don't wanna get in trouble. Right. And then he, well, there's the part, then his radiator hose breaks as predicted. Yes. He has to coast down the hill and almost gets crushed there. And then you have the sort of final showdown.

Yes. Where he laces trapped. That's the ultimate trap. And we should just say too, because it's so ingenious the way this story unfolds, that that moment in the journey is the uphill moment, where if his car didn't have issues in that moment, he would be able to get away. Because the tractor trailer is not going to be able to travel up the steep incline as quickly as the car. So that really would be his moment normally to actually get away. But of course it starts overheating

and he's now pushing it to the limit of it. I mean, that's a moment where you're like, oh boy, this guy is ready to like just fucking scrap this car like to save his life. There's an incredible Spielberg film language thing where you have this wide shot, what feels like a wide shot, of just the car cruising on the road

and it's after a section where he's been free of the truck for a while. Obviously not free of the anxiety. No, but no sign. But you haven't seen the truck for a bit. And then suddenly the car like skids in the middle of the road, seemingly in response to nothing,

and the camera pulls back really quickly. You realize you were zoomed in, and the camera is actually placed under the carriage of the truck. And you're seeing him skid, and then the camera is revealing the thing that caused him to skid, and you're basically from the POV

of the wheels of the truck. And then the next shot is like this fast classical camera crane in from the sky into Dennis Weaver in the window as it's just like, I need to figure this out right now. Like it is the moment of like, I must set the ultimate trap of him deciding he needs to take things into his own hands. Let's take out the, let's take out the... Let's just assume the car's gone. Like, let's write off the fucking Plymouth at this point.

But it's just like a perfect two shots of like, a sort of perspective shift where you're like disoriented by, oh fuck, what I'm seeing isn't what I thought I was seeing. The image is revealing to me what everyone's been reacting to, or what he's been reacting to or what he's been reacting to Followed by the shot that is wordlessly showing his gears running in his head and him like Basically throttling into a whole new and then if he sets the ultimate tree he sets the ultimate essentially lets the trucker get the car and

Goes he goes down a canyon Because we've just jumped out of the truck out of the car. Yeah. Um, as the trucks going down, he kind of makes this noise. Ben. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Uh, it's a little louder than that and it's got this kind of roar to it. It's kind of cool. And we'll amp it up in post. Yeah. And well, you know, there is of course the train horn. The discipline. The fact that he's been holding back on this this entire time, that's what makes Ben Hansley a true artist. Much like Spielberg. He knows when you can just pull back. Let folks sit in the silence. Oh, that one's resistant. Where's that train?

It's on its way to Chattanooga. No, he sacrifices his car. Yes. And there's this beautiful slow motion where the truck doesn't explode, even though the whole movie had been clocking this flammable. It does say flammable. I think it's a solid note. Instead, it kind of just like bleeds out.

You see blood. Yes. So there's the implication that the person died. Yes. But it also just feels like the truck is dying. Yeah. And then kind of a Jaws-y ending. Yes.

I mean, so much of Jaws feels like an expansion of Duel, right? Just sort of like, simplify the monster, simplify the intent. Yeah. You know, it's just ordinary people in this crazy situation. And I think that's why when he's making Jaws,

he's like, should I be making another monster movie essentially, which is what this is? It's what's interesting about how his career went, where like Sugar Land is so good and ends up feeling kind of anomalous in his career. It does, like what is like the Sugar Land Express? I guess we'll talk about that later. I kind of would contend nothing.

I think there are movies where he's trying to recapture certain aspects of it. Yeah. Like something like the terminal is looking for some of the breeziness of it. I wish it had found it. Right, but is him also doing it in this heightened sort of like Capra pastiche kind of way.

That movie was heightened? The terminal? No, there's nothing quite like Sugarland. And Sugarland makes sense as this kind of dorky guy being like, shouldn't I make what all the other like 20-something filmmakers are making right now? These kind of personal generational Youth movies but also car movies right like Lucas for the American Feeny and diploma did a car movie and you know

Like right to use cars like all these guys started out making these sort of like you through the prison of cars Yeah, exactly independent. It's it's kind of similar to Badlands in certain ways like it has all these things that make sense as like What a lot of his contemporaries first movies were right and then Jaws is like a gig I guess don't didn't make a car movie till like wise guys Yeah, Jaws is a gig which makes sense Based on the success of this like this is a credible based on show reel to be like, I could direct Jaws. I could make the shark scary. But then that changes the course of his entire career.

Jaws? Um, sorry. Once he's made Jaws, how is he not going to make things at the absolute highest level after that? Like he can't make like, I'm just going to make another hangout movie. But Sugar Land is kind of what was in fashion at that point in time. Yes. This is somewhat shaggy. Like what's to be done with our youth and like, yeah, the open road and it's just that his was not wildly successful. The ending isn't going to happen. So no one was begging him to make another movie like that.

And his career veered. It veered. But no, but Jewel, just like him kind of just like sitting at the top of the hill and just kind of like taking a moment It's kind of like in Jaws when they're just sort of paddling laughing and crying basically simultaneously Okay. All right. It's also look we discussed this a lot eight years ago But it's why there were so many complaints about the second half of Spielberg's career quote-unquote him not knowing how to end movies It's true. And I think it's because the first half he would end movies, he would get out so quickly. He would reach the peak of the story and then just end.

Like he had a real skill set for just like fucking, I don't need to wrap this up, you know? And yet it feels complete. I mean, yeah. Is the last shot of Duel of the... Right. The credits basically roll over this shot of Dennis Weaver Sitting in the middle of the hill throwing rocks as the sun sets behind him and you're like, I have no idea how he gets home

Beyond that what is this guy's mental state for the next day week month the rest of his life back in a car again Right like I love movies that end with and what the fuck does this guy do now? Like I love movies that end with and what the fuck does this guy do now? Where you've just watched one incident in a person's life one period one series of events and the movie just ends and lets you Sit with and do they ever fucking get over this? And that's totally what this is. He just sits there throwing rocks in like a beautiful sunset shot and then the movie fades to black Good shit. The film was... uh, got a 20.9 Nielsen. Okay.

So pretty good. Yeah. But was the 18th highest rated television movie of the year. Which means it only got like 80 million viewers. That's what I'm saying. Even though one third of America's television viewers watched Duel when it aired, That was basically seen as like average. It was in the bottom fourth or fifth of that slot. I actually think I have the TV listings.

You want to know the other stuff that was airing? I don't have much here. Okay, give me what you got. So on ABC. Uh-huh. Oh, this is, we're not doing ratings game. We're doing like what aired against it. We can also do the ratings game for that year of television.

Yeah, let's do that. But give me this right now. This aired between an episode of The Mod Squad, which was a very hot show about the youth in and of itself, and an episode of Marcus Welby MD. Of course. A very hot show about the youth. Hot medical drama. And that's on ABC.

CBS, it looks like, the only thing I'm seeing here is Hawaii Five-O. I'm not sure what else. And NBC had something called The Search for the Nile, which was a documentary. Okay, sure. About, I guess, the people looking for the origins of the River Nile. Boring! Okay, so, number one, the TV. In 1971. You're giving me the year, right? Yeah. I wanted the TV. In 1971, you're giving me the year. Good, is that right? Is that what this is here?

So it's 1971 TV ratings. Okay, let's find out. Let's find out. Let's find out. And it would be 70 to 71, right? Cause this era, yeah, okay. Yeah, number one is one is wow a medical drama Trapper John

No, Marcus well be MD. Oh fuck. Well with uh, I guess this is too early for Trapper John What the of course is too early for a too early mash is barely come out mash the movie come out The show hasn't started Trapper John's gonna run off the fuck. Am I thinking? If so do early altman, we're gonna have to do all of Trapper John MD on patreon, right? No, I know we're low to cover TV, but that just feels essential. No Marcus Welby I have never seen but that is like you're just classic boring ass It's like it's about a family doctor who makes house calls It's what I would use a shorthand to make fun of dumb TV from the 70s

We're just like this is all we've gotten they're like yes And the people love it Number two however is something I've fucking never heard of oh wow it was a variety show, okay shielded by a comedian, a black comedian. It was one of the first TV shows hosted by a black person. Well, it's not Flip Wilson. It is the Flip Wilson.

You've never heard of the Flip Wilson show? No. Flip Wilson was huge. Flip Wilson, like a massive pioneering figure. I was thrown off there because I knew Flip Wilson was one of the first, but I thought you would have heard of him I mean, I I know him. Yeah, like I'm looking at

Flip Wilson. I know this face. Sure Yeah, no flip. Wilson shows a big deal Very funny comedic actor. Yeah number three. Mm-hmm at the box office is not the box office TV ratings is a sitcom, starring a sitcom legend, but it's her third sitcom. Is it Here's Lucy? It's Here's Lucy. Yeah, a Mike Carlson favorite. After I Love Lucy and The Lucy Show, it was Lucy Ball's 70s sitcom, which ran for six

seasons. Yeah, that's the thing. It was like, oh, Lucy's depressing final old age flop. And you were like, it ran six seasons. Yeah, that's the thing. It was like, oh, Lucy's depressing final old age flop. And you were like, it ran six seasons. It was one of the five most popular shows on television. It's basically a show of, I think it's, is it her real children play her children on the show as her adult children?

Yes, they do. Lucy Arnaz and Des Arnaz Jr. Yes. And it's just her being like, oh, my kids won't leave me alone. She sounds like that. Yeah, sure. four exaggerating that much. No. No, I mean number four is a long-running TV Crime show Not mad kind of a gimmick. It's not matlock. No, it's not dragon

Kind of a gimmick. I mean like the guy there's something up with the guy iron side iron side. There we go Raymond Burr What's up with them? He's in a wheelchair. Yeah, that was like, you know, it's like it would always be like, okay What's your show? And it's like it's about a cop and He's in a wheelchair or and he's from New Mexico or you know, like that was like some little twist The level of hook you needed that's how you see something. Yeah, Kojaki fucking has a lollipop. Yeah, truly who loves you this guy's bald Yeah What makes this cop different? He's got nice shoes

Kojak I've never seen that co-jack detective shoes Kojak does seem fun Kojak seems like a tremendous amount of fun Vin Diesel has been threatening to make a Kodak movie for like 15 years He's both correct number five at the box office if that ever happens I will watch all of Kodak obviously so that I can suddenly be a Kodak expert in time to explain what Vin got, right? But every time Vince like talking about what's coming up. He's like, I'm gonna go back to furia Ten more fast and furious and then I'm finally making Code Jack. Glad he's making Furia. Number five is the show that Dennis Weaver did 10 years on before

like then. Guns and Bugs. Still in the top five. You've also got the ABC Movie of the Week, of which this was one. You've got Hawaii Five-0, as I mentioned. You have something called Medical Center. Matthew 4. Perfect. What if there was a medical center? Aaron Powell. A hospital show starring James Daley, who was of course Tyne and Tim Daley's father. Matthew 4. So this is another installment of The Daily Show. Aaron Powell. Correct. You have Bonanza, another Gunsmoke-esque, long running western show. Gunsmoke, Rawhide, and Bonanza. It's just like, when I was a kid,

Rawhide would still be on TV sometimes, because it has that great theme song. And then I would watch Two Minutes up, and I would be like, it feels illegal that this is on TV in the 90s. This is too boring, for words. Was Bonanza the one that Altman did? Altman did a handful of episodes of one of them.

And there's the great line that like you could tell which one's Altman directed because they didn't have a plot. He did do Bonanza's. Bonanza's just not one of those 500 episodes about... I've seen like one or two of Altman's Bonanza's and they are just like guys talking. Sounds good. They're just like sort of a long campfire conversation. I feel like back in the day they just have anything happen. It didn't matter. People just wanted to watch TV. It was still like kind of new. Right. Number 10 is is the FBI which I mostly think of from

Once Upon a Time in Hollywood at this point, but that's one of those shows It's like the FBI are great. This show is presented in partnership with the federal Bureau of Investigation Boy right yeah, correct. Yeah But but no, you know what knowing that ABC TV movie of the week was the highest rated one is Actually good context to know for this. It was hot. It was getting a slot on the best TV movie rotation and yet his Rated low for the season but immediately caught the eye of the people who mattered. This was its second season, I think, of whatever. Yeah.

So coming up, oh no, third season, sorry. Coming up on this show are other Steven Spielberg films. Yeah, several of the most successful, popular, and acclaimed movies. Some of them are well known. In human history. E.T., Jurassic Park, Close Encounters, Raiders of the Lost Ark.

These are all movies he made. He made them. And we'll be forced to talk about them. Forced, as David Stifel's a burp. Yep, for your viewing entertainment. But next week is his, certainly probably still least seen film, Mm-hmm. Right?

Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's not hard to watch the Sugarland Express, but, you know. But you know, as I've been telling people that we're doing this series, telling people in confidence, because it hasn't been officially announced, and friends go, what's coming up? And I go, we're finally doing early Spielberg. They go, oh man, Sugarland. I do feel like there's a growing Sugarland... I don't want to say reappraisal, but I... because it's different.

You watch it and you're like, this is interesting. He never quite did something like this again. And it's so good. And it's good. Yeah, it's interesting as it's sliding door. I don't bemoan the filmography we got out of him, but it's interesting to watch and just go like, he could have just made 15 of these and just been a really good filmmaker who's someone like Pauline Kael hailed and never really had a commercial breakthrough.

Yeah. There is a big element of luck even involved for someone who perhaps innately is the most gifted filmmaker of all time. Like I think just in terms of raw understanding of the relationship between images and story, he is... watching these early ones, it's just kind of mind-boggling how fully formed he was out the gate. And yet, I probably wouldn't put Duel in the top 20 Spielbergs.

No, that only speaks to... I might put it right outside though. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It kind of fucks though. Maybe it's number one. Interesting. Nah, I'm joking fucks them. Maybe it's number one Interesting Who knows Anything else Griffin? We're done. We did it dual blank check season 10 year of miracles

Wait, we're season 10 now. No, you're 10. Yeah. There you go. It's like season like fucking 50 We should do that. We should figure that out as well What number season this is someone figured that out not us through miniseries? Yeah, let us know. Yeah But yeah year of miracles. I'm calling it Get ready for all bangers. Mm-hmm No complaints all fun Yeah, I'm excited excited to talk about these movies.

Look, there was a certain amount of strategy when I was like, is it kind of a bold move to just start off year 10 and finally settle the balance of Spielberg? And your immediate response was, hmm, those are the exact kind of movies I'm gonna be in the mood to rewatch with two recently born babies.

And I said, David, it was part of the thinking. Right. Yeah. Well, I'm glad we're ending on a high note. I don't know, I'm done. I'm done. Okay, I'm done too. Thank you all for listening.

I'm sitting on the top of a cliff, throwing pebbles at the corpse of this episode. Thank you all for listening. The episode was a triumph. Yeah, it was. Tune in next week for Sugarland Express. And as always...