Blank Check with Griffin & David - Edward Scissorhands with Julio Torres

Episode Date: January 13, 2019

This week on Blank Check Julio Torres (Saturday Night Live) discusses 1990’s proto-Tumblr Frankenstein remake fantasy, Edward Scissorhands. But is Cole Sprouse the young Johnny Depp of 2019? Should one aspire to create an esoteric Halloween costume with their movie? Why won't they leave the clowns alone? Together they examine the career of legendary costume designer Colleen Atwood, Winnie the Pooh’s acting and joke writing in Christopher Robin, gorgeous improv and constructs. 

You could have gone up there. You could still go. No, sweetheart. I'm an old woman now. I would rather he remember me the way I was. How do you know he's still alive? I don't know. Not for sure. But I believe he is. You see, before he came down here, it never snowed. And afterwards, it did. came down here it never snowed and afterwards it did and if he weren't up there now i don't think it would be snowing sometimes you can still catch me podcasting in it she did start a podcast after edward went up to the we know that right that's in the movie right this is sarah koenig they don't

draw that line directly but it's implied right. We know. Right. She says, was Anon guilty? That's her final line that they cut out because they went like, the audience is, they're not going to get this. They're not ready.

They're not ready for that. They're like 20 years ahead of getting this. Hello, everybody. My name's Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims. It's a Blank Check with Griffin and David.

It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their career giving a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce baby. And this is maybe, I mean, I'm realizing

while we're covering this, other than... We're talking about Tim Burton. We're talking about the films of Tim Burton. This is the title. This is the title episode. I don you're cast. This is the title episode. This is the title episode. I don't think we've ever covered a filmography where it goes this long without a bounce.

Well, Cameron maybe, James Cameron maybe. But a Biss. Yeah, I mean Biss isn't a bounce. But yeah, yeah, yeah. In terms of cost, expectations. He has five without a bounce though because Ed Wood is technically a bouncer. That's what I'm saying but five without a bounce is pretty... Five movies in a row

to start your career is pretty impressive. Five great successes. Especially because they get, one could argue progressively weirder and weirder. Even though Batman is like a very commercial thing to make a movie about. They're weird movies. Yeah. And then Batman Returns being

the weirdest do you think? Weirder than this? I think so. Yeah. I think so. I think maybe. Because I think this movie conforms to the expectations set up by itself. Yeah, no, I get it.

Like, here's a sad, tragic fairy tale. Whereas Batman Returns is just like, people are evil. Right. For two hours and 20 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What were you going to say? Well, this is like a Frankenstein movie, so we're more ready for a monster to be in a Frankenstein movie.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I re-watched on the special features they had, like the promotional featurette, where they went to the mall and they went up to people with a microphone. Oh, you mean like after they'd seen the movie? No, before. Oh, okay, okay. This was like the EPK they put together to be like, people are wondering who is Edward Scissorhands?

And then you see them at the mall and they're like, Edward Scissorhands? It's a good title. Edward Scissorhands? No, I ain't ever heard of him. Like it's people doing that. And it's like a supercut of like 15 of them. People like walking out of JCPenney. But that was their whole take is just like, you've never met a guy like Edward Scissorhands before.

But they straight out say it's Tim Burton's modern take on Frankenstein. Right, right, right. Like, they went as far as they could without saying it's Tim Burton remaking Frankenstein. But then the other part of that was the poster for this movie was like him with the butterfly looking like he was about to cry and the tagline is an uncommonly gentle man. There's, well, okay.

There's this that is the sort of Burton invites you. Oh, sure. That's the one that I thought had the butterfly, but I think that was photoshopped later for the DVD. And then the uncommonly gentle man one is the one where he's with Winona. So what's the tagline on the one that's him in profile? The director of Batman and Beetlejuice invites you to meet his latest creation.

I think after Beetlejuice you're ready to, I think audiences are ready. I think that's a pretty good tagline to just go from the director of Batman and Beetlejuice. So it's like another cookie, like wild hair. There was also, right, there was the haircut themed poster. That poster is crazy. Edward was here. Yeah. I've never seen that poster. I believe there's two of them. There's the one with the haircuts

and then there's the one with the topiary. Yeah, they really kind of sold this as a comedy. Sure. And also a Christmas movie, which it was. Yeah. Yeah. But you're right I mean this is the main thing we've been talking about

in this miniseries is how much how quickly Tim Burton established himself as like a clear brand that people got yeah just like oh another one of those which was surprising because he is so esoteric Yeah, just like, oh, another one of those. Right. Yeah.

Which was surprising because he is so esoteric. It was weird that he that quickly connected the mainstream way. Once you pick up his language, you can understand the rules of his universe. I think that if anything, this might have caught people off guard because it was so sweet i think that was to say this was less ironic the name suggests a horror movie the name suggests a horror movie and beetlejuice was gonna spooky batman was spooky in its own way and this one wasn't spooky this is so kind and sweet yes it's like a children's movie. A very sincere children's film. Now here's my transition. I feel like you have

carved out a similar niche for yourself in comedy. As Tim Burton? As the Tim Burton of comedy. As the Tim Burton of comedy. I don't know. I think I keep thinking of how fun it would be for

say like a Lorelai Ramirez to revisit. I fantasize with a Beetlejuice remake starring Lorelai Ramirez. She would do a good job. Our guest today, of course, is Julio Torres. Hi. Comedian. You've written for Saturday Night Live and you have your own show that's coming down the pipeline now. Oh, which is?

Well, Spooky. Yeah, that's true. It's a spooky show. Is it called Spooky Show? It's a gently spooky show. It's kind of like a horror-themed comedy. Yes. It's not a horror comedy, but much like Tim Burton, it's a comedy using the world of horror and spooks.

I'm definitely not as interested in Christmas as Tim Burton is. No. Tim Burton is obsessed with Christmas. He likes Christmas a lot. He does like Christmas a lot. And this in return is back to back. These are two Christmas movies. Two Christmas movies.

In a row. No, but I feel like you, you know, you had this like very sort of meteoric rise where like I feel like the second you started performing, people were like, oh, that's what he's doing. And it was a similar thing to Tim Burton. I'm not saying you directed Batman, but you have a very specific universe that you build around your comedy, I think. that you build around your comedy, I think. Which is what I like about directors like Tim Burton, where it's like Beetlejuice and Scissorhands are just, I mean, yes, they're rooted in Frankenstein and these other stories,

but I like the idea of audiences being like, what is that? And then that becoming a Halloween costume for the rest of time. Sure, sure. That is just my biggest dream is to create something where, you know, like liberal arts students

all over dress up as that and people are like, what is that? And then they sort of explain and they're like, oh, yeah, I think I saw that. People sell unlicensed fan art shirts on Zazzle. Yes, yes, oh my god. Do you find, so now that you've like,

you've created a TV show, which does not exist yet. Which doesn't exist yet. Yeah. Do you find yourself trying to put stuff in pointedly in the hopes that like, oh that this will be something that someone could easily make into a Halloween costume? I think that there are a couple of opportunities. Okay. There are a couple of opportunities there.

No spoilers. Yeah. So this movie, I was very surprised digging into this. I've been very surprised by the timeline, the development of his movies, because it was different than I thought it was. Okay. Yeah, I thought Beetlejuice was later. Yes. No, Beetlejuice is second.

Whoa. And he comes up with this pitch while he's developing Beetlejuice. So all he's done is peewee. Beetlejuice was a script that Warner Brothers has. And while he's working on Beetlejuice, he's like, I got this other idea. This was apparently in the most Tim Burton origin story ever. He had just made this drawing when he was 16 years old. Right.

And he held on to this drawing for everyone. It's like, that's probably a movie. A slender boy. Yeah, with scissor hands. All black with scissor. I feel like the hands are sort of, he's holding them like this. He's holding them down. Yeah, the blades are always down because he's gentle and he's aware

of his power. Right, but he looks like a begging dog. I was taken by how much this character feels like a dog watching this movie. Oh, sure. I didn't see that. Like a very timid little toy-sized dog. Yeah.

I feel like his whole vibe and his body language and all of that. My father has a very neurotic dog and I just kept on watching this and being like, this is like Scruffy Newman. Also, also like a,

like a dog, uh, so much of the tension with playing with the dog is whether or not the dog will attack. Right, right.

There's that, there's that sort of thing. It's like whether or not the dog will lose it and, yes, uh, because the dog has the power of really hurting you.

Right, and not understanding how things work and getting scared easily by everything, but then also sometimes lashing out or not understanding some power, all that sort of stuff. But he said that Edward Scissorhands was like, you know, he's a doodler. He's a watercolor guy. He's always got his little notebook on him. And he had drawn this of just like, this is how I feel when he was 16. It was like the original Tumblr page was Tim Burton's notebook. But he invented Tumblr

here, right? I mean that's what this is. Yeah. This run of the first five films is sort of him inventing Tumblr. But this one more than anything because this one doesn't have a plot otherwise. Sure. Anyway, keep talking. Keep talking. I'm sorry.

Hashtag TFW the movie sure sure it's it's any of those things right it's whatever you want to say about you know a sad youths of the 90s and right he sort of crystallized he's like i'm gonna you know i don't think this was what he set out to do sad suburban youth you know it's sort of right right and obviously you know of a obviously, you know, of a middle class, you know, sort of upbringing and everything. But I think it was like, he was like, I want to make a movie about how I feel weird. And then he ended up making something that pretty universally spoke to just like a feeling of weirdness that people could just sort of like map onto whatever. Because the character is so otherworldly and dog-like. Also, I love that it's never... It's clearly established what exactly Edward is, right?

Right, yeah. We don't know that he's... I mean, there's some suggestion that he's some sort of reanimated, but it's also could have been just a guy who... Or that he's a robot man. He was experimented on, or... Because the only thing you see is that there's the book, Vincent Price's

book, where you see the wind flipping through the pages and the stages of it. But you never get a sense of what his... No, he's like a construct of some kind. He can eat food. He can eat food. He's like a human.

He can bleed. Does he bleed? Yeah, because he cuts himself He can bleed. Like, does he bleed? Yeah, because he cuts himself. He cuts himself, but does he bleed? Yeah, there's a little, you know, spot of blood right in front of him. Because that's one reason Diane Weiss is so nice to him. Yeah, right. The first time he nicks himself in front of her.

But he takes this drawing. I mean, I guess he's starting to set himself up and realize people might be buying into what I'm selling. He goes to Warner Brothers. He's like, look, I got this drawing. I'd like to make a movie out of it. They're like, cool, let's put that on the back burner. Work on Beetlejuice. And he was developing it.

And then Warner Brothers was like, I don't know if this is like, how much money can we put into this fucking thing? He also hires Caroline Thompson. He hires Caroline Thompson. Caroline Thompson was a novelist. She had written a book about an aborted baby that comes back to life. And her whole kind of thing. Firstborn, I believe it's called. Yes.

Which I believe Penelope Spheeris was trying to make into a movie for a long time. Yeah. She had optioned it, hired Caroline Thompson to adapt her own script. Yeah. Never got made, but then people started having her write other scripts, adapt other things, or adapt her own stories, or write spec scripts based off of ideas.

Because I think they said, oh, this is this person who's got this weird childlike whimsy combined with grounding it in a human situation. Can you tie him down and do an ABC? Right. I think that was the notion. Can we get someone who has basic storytelling fundamentals to take emotionally what he's talking about, meets with her and she says he was the most

articulate person I'd ever met who was incapable of stringing together a single sentence I was gonna give you that quote yeah it's a good quote and that's exactly what you're saying Julio is like the idea of like okay can you filter what he's saying into something that makes sense to people? Because Beetlejuice rules, but it's also not a particularly emotional movie. No. And Batman, which at this point isn't happening, hasn't happened yet, is more of an action movie. Kiwi is like a sketch movie. I think they were like, can you make this guy tell an emotional story?

Can you make characters that he cares about? So Warner Brothers just says, we're not interested. Gives up the movie. Let's Fox pick it up. Then he makes Batman. And then, like, the day after Batman comes out, Fox is like, cool, we'll make Edward Scissorhands tomorrow. Right. But also, every other studio is like, if you want to make a movie, let us know.

And so he did kind of have his pick of the litter, but he's like, I want to do Edward Scissorhands right now. He jumps straight into it, comes out the year after Batman. He's got this list of the actors he wants to do it. Fox wanted him to hire Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise for Scissorhands? Correct. He meets with Tom Cruise

and he goes, didn't go over very well. He needs a happy ending. He meets a sensitive boy. Right. Yeah. Right. And Tom Cruise at this point is all about winning.

Yeah. Well, he's just done like, or he's about to do Born on the Fourth of July because that's 89. Days of Thunder. Well, sure. Yeah. He's in that pocket. And then the other people.

Because he sees Tom Cruise as the blonde boyfriend character. Probably. Right, 100%. Which, it's so fucking funny. Chase or Bryce or whatever it is. It is crazy. It's that thing, right? Anthony Michael Hall having been the dweeb for five odd years, right?

In various John Hughes movies. Breakfast Club's 86? Is it that... Like, what year is his last John Hughes movie in relation to this? I think there's only like. It's 85. And then Weird Science is 85 too. Okay.

Yeah. And he weirdly has only been in two movies since then. Out of Bounds and Johnny B. Good. Neither Richard, you know. Right. Hits. Right. But Johnny B. Good was the start of him trying to be Jock.

Right. Because he plays like a fucking quarterback in that. Right? Yes. There's that amazing interview with Anthony Michael Hall after he's done the John Hughes movies,

after he's become the youngest ever cast member on Saturday Night Live. After being in the teen films, he was on Saturday Night Live when he was 16 or 17? Sure. Yeah.

I can look it up. And then he did like, he went on like MTV News and was wearing sunglasses. I think he was 19, 18 or 19. Go on, go on. They went, how do you feel about playing all these nerd characters? And he goes, nah, nah, man, nah, nah, don't use the N word in front of me.

No. And he says it that way. He's like, nah, man man don't use the M word right I think he was also like in the you know a lot of 80s

young stars he was like an alcoholic by the age of like 18 you know what I mean like he had like drinking and drug problems from a young

cause it's you're in the soup you're in this you know but I think Brat Pack soup I think he thought of himself as a serious character actor

okay he had met with Stanley Kubrick about doing Full Metal Jacket. Sure. And then I think he felt so self-conscious about being pigeonholed into the nerd thing that then he went so hard in the other direction. Right. And was like, I'm just going to play humorless bros. But he does play...

This is great. Oh, he's great in this. Well, he is good in this. Yeah. It's just crazy that it's the same person only like five years later. Because he looks like two feet taller. He does.

He looks huge. Well, that's those low angles. It's a lot of low angles. That's a lot of low angles in this movie. Especially with this character. You see it from Cicero's point of view who feels smaller than him. And Winona is like two foot one.

Winona's not a tall woman. She's a little Thumbelina lady. She seems statuesque in this film. Yes, she does. So the other people that Tim Burton was apparently interested in were Gary Oldman. Oldman passed. Hank's passed. Right, and they were going to all the big leading men.

Hank's passed to do Bonfire of the Vanities, I believe. Yeah, I mean, but good call still for all involved. Sure. Oldman actually, right, there's a quote from him where he was like, I didn't get it. And then when I saw the movie like two minutes in, I was like, oh, I get it. Like, now I get it. Like, he just needed to see like what Burton was doing. Yeah, the PDF was not convincing. The script made no sense to him, but once he saw it, he made sense to see like what Burton was doing and he was like, yeah, the PDF was not convincing.

The script made no sense to him but once he saw it, he made sense to him. I mean, that's great. That's the best kind of thing. Oh yeah. This movie doesn't work

if the character is that much of a grown man. Right? Well, yeah, I mean, you're right. It'd be really creepy

if it was Hanks or Old Man or any of them. Like, Cruise was the right age but is the wrong energy. You get why they, like, wanted Hanks because they're like, he's our biggest star. He can do anything. He can do comedy or drama.

You have someone like Gary Oldman who's like, oh, he transforms himself. He's a chameleon. He gets into it. But you kind of need someone who has a blank slate in terms of their relationship to the audience at this point the way that johnny depp did yeah because he was just oh that pretty boy yeah like people didn't really have much of a take on him other than like oh he's like a heartthrob he's on a tv show he's on a tv show he's gotten killed in a couple movies sure uh edward you know uh platoon and nightmare on elm street yeah nightmare on elm street he's

you know another scissor-handed man but i don't think there was any sort of sense of like oh that's the johnny depp vibe which then he cultivates too hard sure yeah then he right that becomes his thing but i think at this point it was like casting like jai courtney or whatever it's like oh they cast some like hunky guy. Or like DiCaprio or someone like that. Maybe. But even DiCaprio was like so much. pretty. Yeah, DiCaprio I feel like

hit the ground running as like, oh, he's like a serious actor. Like he's like this serious child actor. I mean, he does Growing Pains,

but then it's like Gilbert Grape. You're like, this is this very committed 15 year old. Right, right, that's true.

The same year, so in April and Edward Scissorhands is in December I think he did Cry Baby the John Waters movie and then after this he does not do a movie for three years then he does Benny in June

and What's Eating Gilbert Grape speaking of DiCaprio so this is the year he picks like two subversive directors and is like I want to mock my and has quit 21 Jump Street, which goes on without him. And if he had any reputation at this point, it was that he was a brat on 21 Jump Street. Like all the stories were like he hated the show and he'd come on set wearing stupid costumes so that they try to fire him. Like he would like he was constantly trying to get kicked off the show because he thought it was dumb.

And yeah, and then I think everyone thought it was strange that he was doing this. Sure. And then this made his career. It made his career. For better or worse. Totally. This is like, I mean, this kind of becomes like the thing. And I feel like so much of his reputation back,

because it is easy to forget that for like 13 years or so, he felt like he was like the artiest of the movie stars. Yes. Until Pirates, he is the one where you almost don't understand how he still gets to be a movie star. Right. Because he only makes weird movies. Most of them didn't do well.

They don't really make a lot of money. This was kind of his only hit until Pirates. Basically, yes. And he's like unrecognizable. Only commercially hidden. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Donnie Brasco's really the only other one. Critics liked him, but he never got nominated for Oscars or anything.

And then you'd do these interviews and he'd be chain-smoking. He sort of occupies that same space as your Angelica Huston. Right. He was the Angelica Huston type. He also, he would only, he dated Winona Ryder, and it was a real teen beat kind of relationship. It was a huge. They were the it couple for the weirdos.

It couple in the early 90s. You know what would be the equivalent if they hired Cole Sprouse now? Yes, that's what it's like. And then he knocked it out of the park, right? It was amazing. And it's like this kid who's like his Instagram is not selfies but they're like very, very beautiful

photography of cacti. And he's in this big teen show that you get the sense of like does he think he's smarter? Right, right. I think that was the whole thing was like, does Johnny Depp think he's better than the show? Is he actually better than it? Or is he just a brat?

Right. What proof is there he can actually act? And also, he's just so pretty at the time that I think he has the automatic judgment of like, well, he's a pretty boy. Like, what does he know? He's just got the chin, like, and the cheekbones. And they're very much putting him through, like, all the magazine pieces and all the photo shoots and he's smoking cigarettes and being like I fucking love him

he's wearing weird shit you know he dates Winona and then immediately gets the tattoo he also well when they break up with Wino Forever and then he changed it to Wino Forever he also dated Jennifer Grey and Sherilyn Fenn.

He dated like every cool girl of the early 90s. Right. And he was married when he was like a baby. Yeah. And they got divorced like before he even joined 21 Jump Street. Right, right. He was married and divorced by like 20. That whole thing.

He kind of had the like... Passionate. Rock star poet sort of, you know, kind of had the like. Passionate. Rock star poet. Right. Like sort of, you know, kind of vibe around him. And then this performance is just like completely egoless. Sure. Right.

Totally. And is some of the most sort of like committed like physical comedy. Yeah. Right. It's Chaplin-esque. Like four lines. Yeah. Right. And watching it, it is just like when people apply Chaplin-esque. Like four lines. Yeah, right. And watching it, it is just

like, when people apply Chaplin-esque to things, there rarely is a character that is this sort of simple and elemental. When people apply Chaplin-esque to things, they mean that they're quiet, I feel like. I feel like that's usually, right? Like that's usually why people would say, you know what the another performance that is sort of

in the same school of performing that I saw last year that I loved. One of my favorite performances on film. Can't wait for this. Winnie the Pooh in the Christopher Robin. Oh, agreed. So much so. A hard agree.

Oh, my God. He said so little. Just the Winnie's acting choices. Yes. the Winnie's acting choices. The baleful stare. Yes, of like his little paw through the field. And just like the... Oh my God, that movie is so good. His sadness in not understanding

why sitting on honey was disruptive. Right. Yes. What a gorgeous performance. I like when they're walking him through the train station and he says,

why is he in a cage? Yes. Why is he in a cage? Yes. About the ticket. And he wants a balloon and he just wants a balloon. He just wants a balloon. I saw that movie with our friend Rebecca Boulness. I have a lot to learn acting wise from Winnie the Pooh. Oh, I mean, he's the master.

Yeah. He's the master and he's been making it look effortless for 60 years. Yes. But I saw the movie, The Lights Came Up, and I turned to her and my first thought was like, I forgot that Winnie the Pooh is my favorite comedian. He's very funny. Yes. But I saw the movie The Lights Came Up and I turned to her and my first thought was like I forgot that Winnie the Pooh is my favorite comedian. He's very funny. Yes.

Where it was just like that movie so captures like when I would like read those books or watch the cartoons and just bust a gut and I was like no one's a better joke writer

than Pooh. Yeah. Pooh is the sharpest joke writer in the biz. Oh Pooh. But then that movie adds like the winsomeness. That's the thing that links them up with Edward Scissorhands.

Yeah. Is Pooh feels weirdly sad in that movie. Pooh feels weirdly sad? He's out of place in the same way because of the whole Chris and Robin growing up. Yeah. There's not really a zone for him. They've all spread out. He's sort of just like a bear living in a tree by himself not talking to anybody.

When I was young and I saw this movie for the first time, and I remember resisting watching it for a while. Scissor Hands? Scissor Hands. Oh, okay. No, I resisted watching Winnie the Pooh, Christopher Robin, until it came out. Sure. And then I saw it opening weekend. Edward Scissor Hands, I'd gotten so deep into Burton, and I held off on watching this one.

It was maybe one of the last ones I watched. You were like, I can't become that. I was very scared by it. I was genuinely scared. When I was a kid, I knew what Edward Scissorhands was and everyone did because we all talked about it in the playground because it's such a good name.

It's like iconic immediately. But I didn't see it until I was a little older. I thought it was scary little tonic immediately. But I didn't see it, I guess, until I was a little older. But I thought it was scary. It came out... 90. 90. Oh, okay. See, I just remember it being one of those boxes in the video store that scared me.

Yes. Yeah, because of the scars and the... Yeah. Yeah. And the fact that he does look so sad and haunted. And scary. Right. Like, it wasn't...

I knew that he wasn't a villain. I knew it wasn't a monster movie in a traditional sense. I thought it was a monster movie. But I was like, he looks scary and this looks sad. Sure. I think this movie, they're selling it about his loneliness and I don't want to experience that.

Okay. So when do you see it? I probably see it when I'm maybe nine or 10. Oh, okay. You're still pretty young. Yeah, I'm still pretty young. But I'm saying like seven or eight, I got really into Burton and this was the last one I had maybe 9 or 10. Oh, okay. You're still pretty young. Yeah, I'm still pretty young, but I'm saying like 7 or 8 I got really into Burton, and this was the last one I had watched

on VHS, and then I became obsessed with it and watched it like obsessively. I hadn't seen it probably in 10 or 12 years. I'm watching it last night. I realize it's one of those movies I still probably know every word to because I watched it too much in middle school. But I do remember when it started.

A, I was so nervous. like sitting watching a vhs in my living room by myself because you felt it was bad in some way no waiting for him to appear it felt like the looming threat because you have like the happy suburban town and as a kid if i ever watched horror movies or movies that had mild thriller elements or any of that i would just be like fuck this is the part where it's going to stop being the setup and the scary stuff's going to happen. Yes. Like, I always liked the part where the-

Dreading night. Dreading darkness. The teenagers were hanging out and I was like, it's safe. Nothing scary is going to happen. I'm fine. Yet. And then the second the monster's introduced, I'm like, now I'm stressed out for the rest of the movie.

Yeah. This is- I also dislike horror. You just dislike it. In general. I currently feel that way. Okay. Still, to this day yes do you think that's part of why you like sort of like repurposing spooky stuff and making it

funny uh i i like the it's more of a i like mystery more than i like scary sure and i like um the unknown strangeness and the unknown more than I like jump scares I can't handle I don't like a jump scare either but about this I was going to say when I was watching it was the same thing when I was a kid anytime I saw anything with a clown

where I was like I don't want to watch the part where they're going to be mean to the clown yeah mean to the clown oh my god that's such a beautiful dread to have the part where they're going to be mean to the clown. Yeah. Was he going to be mean to the clown? Oh my god, that's such a beautiful dread to have. You didn't want them to be mean to the clown. Data fit always related to clowns.

I seriously did not like it. I would watch these little, there was this I don't know if they still exist anymore, the paper bag players. Oh yeah, are you kidding me? Yeah, are they still going? I don't know, I used to go to those shows all the time. Remember?

They were like a weird. Classic Upper West Side kid thing to do. A weird Upper West Side children's theater company. They were adults, but they did shows for kids. For kids. They wrote a new review every year, and the bit was that the costumes, the sets, and the props were all made out of paper bags. Right.

They were like big brown paper bags, and they'd be like, I got to get my car. They would often have clowns and the clown would be the butt of the joke or whatever, you know what I mean? And I just like, when I was a kid,

I was like, I can't stand this. I can't leave the fucking clown alone. You know, and Edwards' end is the same where once he enters, I'm like, leave him alone.

You just know they're going to be mean to him eventually. Yeah. And obviously Diane is going to be nice, but apart from that I'm like oh god everyone's gonna turn on Edward as the audience is so protective of

him and you're so also relieved like I also rewatched it and so relieved that the dad is nice so many opportunities for for that to not be the case right well I mean so relieved that he is like at worst mildly condescending.

Yeah, at worst he's an 80s dad where he's like, you need to get a job and stuff. It's good to be responsible. I love that he just loves him and is just like, what do you mean? I talk to him like a normal person. Like he doesn't even. Yeah. Edward, listen. Yeah.

Ed. Ed. Ed. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But I just love that he approaches him like he has. Edward Scissorhands has the exact same frame of reference as he does. Ed. Ed. Ed. Yeah, right. But I just love that he approaches him like he has, Edward Scissorhands has the exact same frame of reference as he does.

And then he can start any conversation with like, so you see the game last night? But that opening shot of Edward, you know, when Diane Weiss finds him where he's so small. This is where I start freaking the fuck out. The perspective of the building that, you know, the set makes him look even smaller and he's just so wounded looking

you're like, that's when as a kid and now, I'm just like, oh god, leave Edward alone and here's my other thing, I wasn't worried about her messing up with, messing up his life, cause he doesn't have much life to mess up at this point well, so you just trust

Diane Weiss so completely one of the most relaxing performances she's so fucking up at this point. Well, so you just trust Diane Weiss so completely. Giving one of the most relaxing performances. She's so fucking good at this movie. Relaxing is a very good adjective for that. I love her in general, but her entire demeanor, her voice is so well-applied. You know that she's on screen, everything will be just fine. Yeah. She's just got such an incredible energy in this

thing. And we, you know, Tim Burton is not always the best with his female characters he is very prone to turning them into sort of just fetish objects winona in this is a little bit of a ice angels right but but this character is so fucking good and i was watching it trying to divorce i mean obviously this is a movie that's written by a woman well written by women written by one women yes carolyn thompson yeah but But also, I think Weest adds a lot to it. I mean, there's so much nuance to every one of her reaction shots

where you see her playing, her processing the enormity of Edward's life with every new detail that's revealed. Well, and that first exchange they have where she's like, where are your parents or whatever? And he's like, my dad fell asleep and didn't wake up. And she's just like, your parents or whatever and he's like my dad fell asleep and didn't wake up and she's just like oh and then like you should come with me

and you see like 16 different thoughts go across her face and she doesn't let him see any of them but that was the moment where I started freaking out for that reason where I was like okay he's scary he's hiding her in the shadows but then I immediately started having like an existential panic over like thinking about what his life was up until that point I'm like so he's like 20 hiding her in the shadows. But then I immediately started having, like, an existential panic over, like,

thinking about what his life was up until that point. Right. I'm like, so he's, like, 20? He's never left this house? Mm-hmm. The guy's been dead for how long? He can't touch anything? Yeah.

He keeps on cutting himself? Yeah. Like, just that sort of solitude made me, like, so deeply sad. But then the movie, like like becomes such a fun world because of how quickly everyone like warms to him when re-watching it as an adult i was shocked and so amused by the fact that this mansion is at the very end of their street.

Their universe is so hermetic. People are living next to it and have never wondered thought about it. And it is necessity of running out of houses to sell makeup in that takes her one foot away into this completely other world. And I love that.

I love that. Because, I mean, it's a very like storybook device. Oh, yeah. Like, oh, these people are so involved in their own lives that have never questioned what's at the end of the street. I also just love the idea of like it's like to make a world so aggressively normal all the weirdness had to be like clustered somewhere and that's what created this place.

It's like they shoved it all to the side and Vincent Price was just like I'll live here then you know just walked into a mansion. Well I think I've said this before in different contexts but he grew up in Burbank he said this movie is largely influenced by his upbringing in Burbank and how outside

he felt in this very conventional sort of suburban community. But the other thing that apparently they claim deeply influenced this movie is his time at California Institute of Arts, the college I dropped out of. What's it called? Paradise or whatever?

Valencia, California. Paradise is a different place in California. But on the tour when I was like, Dad, I want to go here. This is the Tim Burton College. Because I went there because Tim Burton went there. They said on the tour and they were like, have any of you seen the movie Edward Scissorhands?

And then everyone raised their hand and gasped. And they were like, so rumor has it Tim based the film on his experiences here being a weird kook on top of a mountain with this creepy suburban town that feared him down below. Wait, is the creepy suburban town the actual town? Sorry, creepy is the wrong term, yes. Or did he feel like he was the one weird student

and the other were blissfully normal? This is where the metaphor doesn't totally track. Because it's like a school full of... Is it flattering to the school or is it not? I'd argue it's not. Right. I would argue it's not. And it was really clear foreshadowing that I didn't pick up on about why I shouldn't

go there. But like the school is on top of a mountain like that. And it's a weird building and it kind of has that relationship to the rest of the city, which is otherwise like closed off, identical cookie cutter housing communities. Got it. And anytime you would like leave the campus,

which was like a tiny bubble, and go down into Valencia proper, everyone would look at you like, ugh. Like the townspeople hated the art students. Townspeople. The townspeople. They have pitchforks

right so he made like that's apparently a thing that influenced this movie was how terrified he felt of how terrified

everyone was of him and he wanted to shoot it in Burbank but Burbank at this point had changed too much become too urban I think and so they shot it

in Lutz Florida home of past and future guests Sonia Soraya a great Tampa suburb, which I'm sure now in its own right is probably too, like, you know,

there's been too much, it's been built up too much or whatever, but at the time looks just like a picture-perfect 60s American suburb. Yeah, and they tell a really good line here of it being like heightened and stylized without being like wackadoo Dr. Seuss suburbs. Sure, right.

I mean, it gets there with the haircuts. The haircuts makes it Dr. Seuss. But he has to convert it. Full on who's by the end of it. I like that architecturally, I guess, all the houses look normal. He's just a lot of control over the color scheme. A lot of control over the...

I mean, it looks eerie. Yeah. And I forgot about how eerie the quote-unquote normal people in the movie are. But what else is Simba going to do? He's terrified of them. You've got to make the normal people look even creepier than the creepy people. Also, I forgot that it was a period piece.

Yeah, right. It is set in the 60s, right? Yeah, the art direction very much suggests 60s. I just always sort of took it as not being set in any particular time. Yeah, I mean, it looks like that. They're all wearing the clothes. Yeah, I'm trying to think. Do they make any?

The diner. I'm trying to think of Winona. Right. Does she have anything on her walls? Because she's a hip youth. She is a hip youth. She's a hip youth. She has a waterbed.

She has a waterbed. She's sort of 70s of her. I guess maybe 70s more. And that was his upbringing. Yeah, maybe it was just an art direction. I don't know. Well, let's talk about the, wait, who did the art? It's Bo Welch, right?

And Colleen did the costumes. Well, so let's, we should talk about Colleen for a little bit. Colleen Atwood, to be clear. You're a big fan of her work. I am, yeah. When we decided we were going to do this, and we were coming up with a list of people we wanted to be on the show, I said, 100% we should ask Julio

because he'll be able to speak at length about Colleen Atwood. I don't know that I'll be able to speak at length. Well, then I messaged you about it and I said, I'd love for you to come on as our resident Colleen Atwood expert and you got very scared. Oh, yes, because I know her work

and I like her work, but I don't. But that's the full extent of what I'm looking for it's not like I want you to unspool a ream of like your relationship to the Burton movies in general right and she's just such a this is her first collaboration with him but she becomes just such a part of the

what has she done before this you with the laptop I have the laptop Married to the Mob which is a great fucking movie yeah but no not much like Manhunter

but like nothing where you're like oh what an insanely designed movie she hadn't made a movie that was this stylized up until this point I love the

I mean there's so many fun choices like the when when Edward is frantically and like

pruning the roses. Winona's wearing a rose sweater. And some of those are like, okay, I'm glad that such on-the-nose choices can be made. And also, you look at the original drawing, and I feel like up until this point, Tim Burton had the way he would draw things,

and then someone would come in and go like, okay, but we can't make something that looks like this and would try to convert it a little more into the real world. And it feels like she was the first person who made someone who just looked 100% like a living Tim Burton drawing. And he was like, oh, cool. So now I'm done. It's like you and I forever. Let's ride off into the sunset right I love how much how many different like textures there are on his

suit that it isn't just like you know as opposed to like he's not just in like black vinyl and some of it's matte and some of it's shiny and some of it's coarse and some of it's textured I like the neck straps then you're very into fashion I'm getting into fashion Julio

yeah chokers you should wear into fashion. I'm getting into fashion, Julio. Yeah, chokers. You should wear chokers. I mean, it's great. I took notes because I'm starting a fashion line this year. Oh, great. Definitely, I picked up a lot of things off of his costume. A scissor hands inspired. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I feel like jumpsuits are pretty big these days, right? They are pretty big. And he's sort of wearing a jumpsuit. Definitely. Looking good. Well, and he can't take it off, right? Right. He can't take that jumpsuit. Definitely. Looking good. And he can't take it off, right? He can't take that layer off. Impossible to remove it.

Right, yeah. Because he wears his normal clothes over it. That's the weird implication is that maybe the flesh was supposed to be placed over that? If he had been finished? My understanding was just more that's the kind of material that will do best with his hands.

Oh, interesting. Oh, sure. Yeah. That'll, like, it will keep up with him if he's rubbing on it versus, like, cloth, which he would just tear up. I do love the fundamental conceit we have to buy into in this movie where it's, like, a brilliant scientist who can make anything decides to make his own living creature. And just for a transitional stage stage he's going to have scissors well that's watching it as a child

I always thought that the Tim Ed's dad this inventor was a very mean cruel man I always read him as like a mean cruel man who did this to him.

That was my reading as a child. Do you still feel that way watching it now? Yeah, why would you put scissors on the... It's a weird quote. Why would you do that? It's a crazy placeholder. It's a crazy placeholder. It's a crazy placeholder.

Especially because his idea wasn't, I will make a scissor man. It was, I will make a normal hand man. And I always read it as like, okay, I had my fun with you with scissor hands. Now, fine, fine, I'm giving you rubber hands. Right, psych, here you go. Yeah, I always thought it was very cruel. Right, he was trying to punk him in a way with the scissor hands.

Yeah. Yeah. Also, was he supposed to be a weapon? Was he, what was the purpose of giving him scissor hands? Well, he wanted a human to make cookies. He does make a heart cookie. Instead of robot cookie makers. He should have given him cookie cutter hands.

Sure. Instead of scissor hands. But scissor hands are cooler. Yeah, they look cool. I am also re-watching it recently I fully relate it with Edward until the moment where the bank told him he had no credit

and then I was like oh not enough people talk about having credit or not having credit in film and I like that he has no credit ask someone with no credit still have no credit and very proudly don't play that game. Is that what you say at the bank? Where you're like, well, I just don't play the credit game.

Well, one of my happiest moments, one of my proudest moments was closing a bank account. Very cool. And they were like, but you're going to need credit. You're going to need, what if you want to buy a house? What if you want to buy a car? And I'm like,

I came to this country not long ago. I have nothing. I don't want children. I don't want to buy a house. I don't know how to drive. I don't need anything. And I'm sick of playing this game. You want to move into a long abandoned mansion

at the top of a hill at the end of a cul-de-sac. Yes, yeah. And those places you don't need like a down payment. Exactly. You don't need a mortgage. Yeah. Right. You kind of got squatters rights.

But that's what I love. I just love that they take Edward to the bank though because like it's just like Diane Weiss is like I'm going to make, I am going to figure it out selling the Avon stuff, right? Well, let's, I just. Right.

And Alan Arkin's like you know you gotta in this country like you can really you know you can pull yourself up by your bootstraps as long as you commit yourself and you're responsible as long as you play the game and they take you to the bank and the bank's like we don't know who you are because you have scissor hands and you're a robot

or something and you know a lot of records here get a job and get a car right Right. Yeah. And I just love that Arkin and Weiss are like well that's outrageous because this is America.

Like you should have a bank account. That's that's one of the rules. You get a bank account. I will say I have the exact same thing where bank accounts scare me.

I have like a checking account and a debit card linked to my checking account and that's my entire life. Even now that I'm financially stable. Same here.

I don't want to engage with money. It scares me. I don't have a credit card. Yeah. I've never had a credit card. Bad credit boy. See, that's because

you're playing the game. You're playing the game. You just don't play the game. I played the game. The game played me. And then I lost the game. I don't know. Yeah.

And now I'm on the bench. I don't know. You're not in the game. No, no,'t. No. Yeah. And now I'm on the bench? I don't know. You're not in the game. No, no, no, no. Yeah. My parents also no credit. No credit cards. No, see, my dad plays the game and loses.

So I'm the child of that where I'm like, cool, I have a checking account and I will check on the Chase app every five minutes to see exactly how much money I have. Oh, you're one of those people. Yeah. Oh, weird. Not because I'm afraid I'm losing it, but I want to know exactly how much I can spend. I'm terrified of money.

I know, I know. You're a money monster. A money-loving money monster. Go on. My no credit is always questioned. They're like, well, what if you want to buy an apartment one day? Don't you want to own your home one day? My answer is, when that day comes,

I will buy it in cash. You'll just have a brief... I'll just have it or I won't buy it. Right, right, right. It's one or the other. Those are your two conditions. Yeah, right, right. And I think that Edward thinks that way too.

That's the Edward Scissorhands life. I am realizing, I mean, maybe he's kind of got it figured out. Eddie? Yeah, old Eddie. Old Eddie, but well... But I like, maybe he's kind of got it figured out. Eddie? Yeah, old Eddie. Old Eddie. But, well, but I like, you know, he's inherently altruistic. Right. An uncommonly gentle man.

And he wants to cut people's hair. Right, he was tested and he said, if you find a briefcase full of money, what do you do? And his earnest answer was give it to my friends and family. Give it to my family. Use it to buy presents for my friends and family. Presents for my friends and family. Used to buy presents for my friends and family. Presents for my friends and family. And Alan is like, well, no, you have to take it to the authorities, but Ed doesn't.

I think authorities are not really a concept. And I love that Diane Weiss gets the people he loves. Diane Weiss doesn't reprimand him. She goes, well, Edward, I can see why it would seem that that was the right answer. And it's almost in her delivery of that line, it's almost like she's saying I once also thought

that is also my instinct to buy presents for my friends and family but actually even though I don't fully get it you're supposed to give it to the authorities yes and so right he doesn't want money I don't think

he's told like well if you're providing a service you should be charging people and all that but like he just wants to cut people's hair and cut people's hedges because he he they like artist right well and also they like it and he likes to make people happy yeah sort of seems to be his general relationship he doesn't know how to communicate with people maybe much like tim burton an articulate man who can't string together a sentence but then when he makes these things, people can respond to them and it's like, cool, this is my dialogue. Yeah, right.

If I can make this and this makes sense to me and my hands are built to craft this and then people are happy, those are my relationships. But I think it's important that the movie kind of reveals that he's not a simpleton and that like you know, when he robs the panic room later, right, you know, when he robs the panic room later,

right, you know, Winona's like, I'm so sorry. And he's like, I knew we were, I knew what we were doing, but you asked me to.

Right. And like that's, you know, she's realizing she's taking advantage of a nice person, not a stupid person. Yes. Right?

Like that's sort of the key difference. Because you do get that sense that the investor did teach him a lot. Yeah. And there's, he's teaching him the manners when he's a deconstructed half teach him a lot. He's teaching him the manners when he's a deconstructed half-boy on a table. Right. He's a little Emily Post

creature. Yes. I like holding my hands out. We've been talking about this, but Tim Burton's so good with fucking opening credit sequences. Love it. And the score for this movie's so good. Very iconic score. Daniel Finn said he built it so it worked

as an opera on its own. That the story would work if you listened to just the album. Which it kind of does in a Peter and the Wolf way. And the title, the tracks are titled into acts and such. But you have Old Winona,

which I think they do a good job. Your impression was, I thought, flawless with Old Winona. I think it's probably my favorite character in the history of film is Old Winona. Old Winona. And clearly JJ Abrams agreed with me because that's the only reason you would cast her to play Old Spock's mom. I will say the second I saw her, I was like, remember when she was Old Spock's mom? Yeah. And you're like, isn't she 40?

When they cast her as Spock's mom. But then you were like, oh, I guess they age her mom. Yeah. And you're like isn't she 40? When they cast her as Spock's mom. But then you were like oh I guess they age her up. Yeah. She doesn't have a moment where she's not wearing old age makeup.

No she does. She does because Spock's a kid. So there's one scene where she's regular Winona. There's one scene. Where he's like mommy you know

why did you like make me. Yes. Spock is a bit of an Edward Scissorhands. Spocky Scissorhands. Yeah. Yeah. But yesy Scissorhands. Yeah, yeah. But yes, you have her telling the story.

I love the image of the girl is like getting engulfed in the bed. I know, I love that. I love all this force perspective stuff in this movie. It's like this crazy wide angle force perspective thing where she just looks like the bed is swallowing her Freddy Krueger style. Yeah.

But I think he does a good job of not showing her face too much in this opening scene so you don't immediately put together its old. I remember my mom telling me it was Winona and it blew my mind. Well, okay. That's makeup? It was very good makeup. It's very good makeup. But then you go through the window and you get the whole sort of traveling through the house and the score.

His really good table setting thing he does. And then you go straight to like Diane Weiss, candy colored suburbs. And I do love this like how small and hermetic their world is. Right. That she's like going to the same doors of the same people. Like she's an Avon salesman. And Contrada Farrell's just like,

you know I don't buy anything. And she's like, I know. Yeah. It's so funny. She has like all of her relationships figured out. She only knows 20 people. And none of them are going to buy products from her. And she just this one day's like, I know. It's so funny. She has like all of her relationships figured out. She only knows 20 people. And none of them are going to buy products from her. And she just this one day is like, I guess there's one more house.

But it's a good like nice economic setting up the basic dynamic of all the people in the town. Totally. Kathy Baker. Very funny performance. Olin Jones. Olin Jones. Olin Jones who fucking rules. Caroline Aaron who's in like everything Aron, who's in everything.

She's Marge. Olin Jones gets credit in the end credits for composing the organ music in this movie. Cool. Good job, Olin. Which rules. That's beautiful. Yeah, but Olin Jones is one of those great early Tim Burton stock company people. Oh, yeah.

Of course. Even just from the moment her name comes up in the credits, you're like, that's the name of an actor in a Tim Burton movie company people. Oh, yeah, of course. Where you're just like, even just from the moment like her name comes up in the credits, you're like, that's the name of an actor in a Tim Burton movie. Yes, absolutely. O-Lan Jones. Yeah.

Well, she's in Mars Attacks. She's in Mars Attacks, obviously. And she comes back in Mrs. Peregrine. Oh, yeah. As what? As the peculiar boy's boss at the supermarket. The peculiar boy's boss at the supermarket. The peculiar boy's boss at the supermarket.

Is that his most recent film? No, Dumbo. Dumbo will be coming out by the time we're finishing this. As of the time we're recording, yes, that's his most recent film. Dumbo, yeah. Okay, another sensitive movie. Another sensitive movie. Dumbo looks like they're setting it up to be a similar

kind of, here's an outsider who all these human beings are reflecting upon. Right, right, right, right. Seeing themselves in and their relationship to him and how much suffering he can endure. Right. Too bad I just can't deal with, like, circus aesthetic. You don't like circus stuff.

Oh, no. I love Dumbo as a child. Me too. And I love twobo as a child. Me too. And I love two scenes in Dumbo. The mother rocking Dumbo through the cage. What's the song called? Baby of Mine. Yeah.

And then the train going through that hill at night. Yes. During the rainstorm. But anything circus, just like the cotton candy, whimsy, welcome to the circus. So you don't fuck with Timothy the Mouse?

I don't do circus. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. I guess Dumbo doesn't get enough credit for being a good train movie. Decent train movie. It's a great train movie.

I mean, you were a big train kid. Love it. Love the train. Dumbo, as a kid, Dumbo, like,

was too elementally upsetting for me to watch that often. Like, because it's just so upsetting. Dumbo and Pinocchio, I love it. Dumbo and Bambi upsetting for me to watch that often. Because it's just so upsetting. Dumbo and Pinocchio. Dumbo and Bambi were the ones that I... Pinocchio too. Pinocchio I would watch a lot though. Pinocchio's fun.

It's got like magic and shit. Pinocchio's also upsetting. Very upsetting. Yeah, all the Pleasure Island stuff. Well, that's more circus-y stuff when they're turning into the donkeys. Is that circus or carnival? Okay, it's carnival. Can I draw a line?

It's carnival. Also, Pinocchio, another Frankenstein tale. Yes. Another construct. Another construct, yes. Half-finished construct. Which I forgot. He almost did a Pinocchio movie like six years ago.

That makes perfect sense. He thought about it, yeah. Robert Downey Jr. has been trying to make a Pinocchio movie at Warner Brothers. Where he's Geppetto. Yes. And then when Tim Burton left, they hired Paul Thomas Anderson. Right. And then he got fired.

Yeah. And now it still just hasn't been made. It's a tricky needle to thread, the Pinocchio story. It's a tough one. Because it is inherently a 19th century Italian novel about how children should listen to their parents. Because I used to read the book all the time. And the book is basically like, and then Pinocchio didn't listen to Jiminy Cricket, and he was hung from a tree.

Like, you know, that's like every chapter ends with one. Which for Pinocchio, being hung from a tree is like essentially being choked out. Okay. By his own kind. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yes, yes.

It's like if another human choked you to death. But yeah, no, Dumbo and Bambi movies about like loss of parents and like the inherent cruelty of mankind freaked me out when I was a kid my brother Jamesy would like avoid any movie that was like aggressively sad

whereas like I flocked to it because I wanted to feel but Dumbo I feel like was one of the only ones that he would watch with me because of all the train shit. Because he was like a vehicle kid. Like a lot of little boys. He was like, if they're wheels, if they're engines. See, I was just a train kid.

Like, cars, I wasn't as into. Interesting. I like trains. I like trains. They don't like cars. I like maps. I like systems. I like learning a train map, things like that.

That was my deal. James was very into vehicles, and was especially into policemen and firemen. systems you know i like learning a train map things like that you know that was my deal james was very into vehicles and was especially into like like uh like policemen firemen like any sort of like jobs right jobs jobs upholding society likes jobs because my brother was like that like he would announce like i will be a milkman right like you know for six months so he was all in on that and then he was like i'm done with that I'm going to be a train conductor because I saw one and so now that's my new job

my brother was really into this British TV show Postman Pat Postman Pat was how would you because we're bringing it back later it's so exciting when we bring it back what are you talking about I believe this is the episode

where we need to talk about whatever you're talking about I grew up in Britain how long have you been holding this back oh my god it's so much better when we bring it back in the other episode the point is Postman Pat fucks Postman Pat and his little whackin white cat

I'm not familiar with it at all it's an English puppet show stop motion little felt man who's a postman yeah he looks like a hot dog he does I'll show you Postman Pat

he drives a little red car he's built like a frank footer and he lives in a little English town and he delivers the mail there's very little conflict he has a cat called Jess who's black and white right

and yeah usually the biggest issue is like you know the bridge is out or something. The name is smudged on the package, and you can't figure out where to look. I have never seen that in my life before. Britain, Postman Pat, Fireman Sam. Yes, those are the two that James liked. And this was the early 90s, and we used to have to get, like,

family members to ship us Postman, Pat and fireman, Sam VHSs. And then my father would have to like get people who could convert them from pal to NTSC to pal. Yeah. Right. Or pal to NTSC. Right.

Right. We had to like get like contraband postman, Pat tapes. And then like a multi-region video player. Right. Yeah. Onto new, new cassettes.

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, postman, Pat and his black and white cat. Right. And I was like a multi-region video player. And dupe them. Right. Yeah. Onto new cassettes. Yeah. Yeah. Postman Pat and his black and white cat. Right. And I was like. Early in the morning. Yeah. I get Edward Scissorhands.

Just when day is dawn. I don't want to ever have a job. I want to sit in a corner. Sure. And then sometimes cut things. Right. Do you know what is the most impressive aspect of this film? Mm-hmm.

Sound mixing. Okay. Like the. Because of all the blades. Sound effects. Yeah. I think. Yeah. Okay. Because of all the blades? Yeah, I think that's what really sells the movie

and the danger of how scary it is to have large, sharp blades on your hands. Well, so much of the tension of the movie is will he, and eventually he does, will he cut the ones he loves, right? Like that's the... But, yes. What's so scary, like every time...

Because even when Winona hugs him, you right you're like oh no careful but there's so many things where he just like tumblr line when she says hold me and he's like i can't there's the moment where he's like pointing out things in the window when diane weist is driving him through the neighborhood and he like reacts strongly and points and almost slashes her across the throat. Yes. So they set that up very early on and then the movie gets like a lot of fun, a lot of mileage out of like, oh he's gonna burst the water bed he's gonna break this thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it is the like, the Chekhov's gun in this movie is like when's he gonna cut a friend? Yes. But I just was watching this and now, you know, having worked in this industry and peeked behind the curtain, I was watching it and just, you know, humble brag. We're allowed to do that.

Sound mixing? No, just realizing on set it would have sounded like dull plastic. Right, right, right. Like on set his performance would have been great, but it also would have just sounded like— Not dangerous, but like, yeah. You know? Sure. Because there's zero chance—but there's such clear snips every time he articulates any finger, whether or not he's cutting something.

You hear the clanking. Uh-huh. You hear the sharpness, which that's what keeps the tension in the air for the whole movie. Are you saying that the scissors weren't really metal? I believe they were plastic, and if they were metal they were dull. I think this is one of those movies where they probably had like seven different versions depending on what he had to do within a scene.

But there's zero chance they were making that kind of sound. Sure. Well of course. I would bet they were plastic largely so that they weren't making sound. Right. Uh huh. Because on set they always are just like let's get as clean as possible. Like don't do anything. Right.

In my, like, years of only getting hired to play, like, computer techs on cop shows. You're like, don't type. That was the bane of my existence. Don't actually type. Was like, the only thing you've hired me to do is sit here and type intensely. And they're like, can your fingers be one inch above the keyboard? Oh, wow. And you feel so stupid when you're just, like, ghost typing.

Yeah. A keyboard that's right below you I one time I can't even remember what the show was but I auditioned for when I was while I was auditioning I was like this is a Griffin Newman

this is a it was very much a Jared and Hans and then like and then then just spilling so quickly some facts. The name I use is a joke because this is one I auditioned for and then the project got canceled because of a lawsuit. But I was at one point in the conversation to play a computer tech named Shalom Rodriguez. Oh my God.

Let's try and cast as wide a net as possible here. It's one or the other. It's in those little roles that they can shoehorn in diversity because they're not because they're on screen sometimes so sure it can be a Rodriguez or it can be anything.

Either get a Jew or get a Hispanic and then we'll pretend like the joke is it's funny that he doesn't match the other half of the name. Right, right, right. Right. It's like you either get like Michael Pena and his name is Shalom, or you get me and my name's Rodriguez. Sure. And therein lies the comedy.

It was win-win. And they got sued because it turned out the rest of the script was copying Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. Perfect. The guy had one embellishment, Shalom Rodriguez. They were like four weeks away from filming, and the Siegel-Larsen estate sued the network that was producing the pilot. Do you currently relate to Scissorhands as a character? Yes. I think this is a big question,

because he was so much an avatar for me as a child. I was a very sensitive child who felt very easily damaged by everything. Same. And, you know, the Wells for boys kind of thing. And this character is so elemental. And like Winona was my biggest movie crush.

That's the reason David and I are friends. I love Winona in general. In this, she is a bit I don't have a lot oh no I mean this character doesn't exist but I'm saying when I was a emotionally undeveloped 12 year old I was like this is the perfect woman

she wears a very clean dress and she's nice she's clearly pretty and she's nice and she's nice to the sad boy like I was like that's my dream girl and didn't notice until watching it now for the first time in 10 or 15 years. Like, oh, there's no character there. Jason, go back. Right.

Go back. But I was like, you know, I was watching it now through the prism of like, is this one of those movies that made a bunch of people feel like they had the latitude to go like, you don't understand me? Absolutely. And there's certainly a space for those movies. I mean, it's like a Donnie Darko effect, right?

Donnie Darko is this movie, like 10 years later, this kind of movie happening again. It is that for a new generation. Right. And because this was... And Winnie the Pooh is the current one. Christopher Robin is now... I refuse to call it Christopher Robin. Because Pooh's

the star. Yeah. So, you asking if I relate to it now. My battle as I was watching it was like I certainly have a muscle memory of relating to this. There are elements I connect to. But I also feel like I've spent much muscle memory of relating to this. There are elements I connect to, but I also feel like I've spent much of the last five to ten years trying to kick any sense

of being a victim or misunderstood out of my head. Of course, and that's very healthy. Right, which I think is healthy. That's very good, that's very healthy. Right, and I think this is one of those movies that can cause people to fall into a trap, to be like, I never have to grow because I'm misunderstood and it's their fault.

Yeah, I mean, you can relate to it in a way that's not... never have to grow because I'm misunderstood and it's their fault. Yeah, I mean you can relate to it in a way that's not There are healthy ways to relate to this, certainly I found I don't think I related to it as a child because I thought well I'm not spooky I'm pretty You were Winona

I'll be kind enough to be nice to the spooky children but now I was like, oh, yeah, he has no credit. He's like weirdly an immigrant. He's like weirdly an immigrant. He's an immigrant, basically. He's like learning how this world works. He's not American.

He's seeking asylum. Yeah. He is. Edward is seeking asylum, old Eddie. Except, of course, he's not active in that way because he was brought to this. No, right. Yeah. Right. I do love that. I mean, I love the, what were you going to say?

No, I'm just like, I love stories like that of the, like, Little Mermaid is the same, right? Sure. She's like, in a world that she doesn't know how to use the fork, so she like combs her hair. She's like in a world that she doesn't know how to use the fork, so she like combs her hair. It's just like those are, I think, have been the immigrant stories for so long. Yes, yes. The like magical creature. The magical creature fish out of water.

Right, and then this heightens that because it's like the fish out of water then goes into a normal zone that is a heightened Tim Burton crazy normal yeah um I grew up in New Jersey in uh an unusual sort of town uh low class kind of town let's say I usually say I low class is more or less how I put it yeah and so seeing this now as an adult I realized the parents and the adults that treated me in a way that made me feel weird i like really related to that shot of edward in bed in the water bed just kind of being like i can't move what is this like i i was like i remember being in like nice houses and just that being like oh my god everyone ate at a table together? Weird. That sort of forced

suburban normalcy. Yeah. I felt that like pangs of being a young man and just being like confused by the nice families. So you related to him? Oh, for sure. Cool. I also grew up on a hill in an old house. And my

dad built me. Your dad has been surprised? Yeah. And your dad did never finish, right? No, no. You're still lacking a spleen? Your dad is a tinkerer. You have a scissor spleen? No, not a scissor spleen. It's a mud spleen. You got a bag of mud where your spleen should be. That's right.

I love, because I had misremembered this, how little resistance Edward is met with at the beginning. At first, he's new and he's exciting and he's like a sexual revolution how little resistance Edward is met with at the beginning. Like the first thing. The first thing, he's new and he's exciting and he's like a sexual revolution

practically. That's the thing. Yes. All the women are, it's a sensual experience to have their haircut. Have their haircut. Right.

Like it goes from like everyone like starting the Whisper Network of just like, there's a man in town. There's a new man. Like this is just mixing it up. Then they all are just like, this is incredible. God, your journey is so amazing.

Like they're like so, they work so hard to understand him and try to accept him. There's that great bit with the veteran who like goes up to him and hits his like hollow leg. Love that. And he's like, don't let anyone ever tell you. You're disabled. Right. And then at the end of the movie, he's the one who's like, kill the cripple! He literally says,

kill the cripple. When it turns ugly. The cop in the movie, so sweet. One of my favorite characters. When he says, just keep me up at night knowing that oh my god.

That's the thing. Like almost everyone, you expect people meeting him with revulsion and then warming up to him. But instead, everyone is like, well, we don't want to be closed minded. Right. Everyone. Yeah. They're all initially kind and remain kind or they let the mom mentality get to them. But they're distracted by their own stuff too.

Very much so. So it's like they're like they accept him but then they just kind of move on. They sort of don't have time to obsess. Right. Other than Diane Weiss who's like putting in the work, everyone else is like patting themselves on the back for being nice to him and then walking away. Yes, and he's a bit of a curio. But I also think it's that thing of

where they're like, well he can't be scary because then if he's scary, he's scary. Right. So he must be fine. And there's that thing, once Winona finds him in the bed, and he punctures her, and Arkin just takes him downstairs, and he's like, women, what are you going to do? She's justifiably upset. She found a scissor monster in her bed.

And he's drinking whiskey through a strong gasping for air. And Arkin's just sitting there like... That's what's great is that Arkin never plays... When I was a child and I watched this, I did not understand that that character was supposed to be funny. Because Arkin is so

bone dry that I was like, well, this is the boring character. Just like the normal dad. And I didn't get that what was funny was the fact that he's talking to Edward Scissorhands like he's not Edward Scissorhands.

Yeah. What did we think about the hairpiece when we were kids? I think it's great. I think it's great too. It's such an 80s dad hairpiece. Yeah.

Wow. It's also great because it's a thinning hairpiece. Yeah. Like it's not a heavy. The rare thinning hairpiece. Yeah. Love that.

Big fan of that. But yeah, everyone kind of puts in their work, does their performative, like we are so inclusive, and then backs the fuck off until Edward realizes that he's an artist, and then he becomes the cause celeb. That first topiary scene is so good

when it's soundtracked by the baseball game on the radio. All that stuff is just like. Depp just plays it very. I like the intricacy of it. Like it just makes it seem not silly that he's just sort of flapping his fingers around and like leaves are flying everywhere. Yeah. He looks committed to what he's doing. Like he makes Edward locus.

Yes. He's so emotionally dialed into it. Right. And it makes you so happy to see when he's, like, proud of something. Right. Because there are those early scenes where she's trying to teach him how to smile and it looks so fake. The one where she's trying to fix his face with makeup and applying the putty. Yeah.

I love that she keeps on going back to that, like, her calling the Avon lady herself to try to figure out if there's another technique she could use. Yeah. Because she can't figure out what to do with his scars. But yes, no, he finds like a genuine pleasure in being able to express himself through this. This is something unique. For once, his scissors are not a hindrance. They're a feature, not a bug. And then how does he get from there to the hair? It's just the dog, right?

Yeah, he just snips things. He's a snipper. But this is a movie where you start to understand maybe why women are underwritten in Tim Burton movies because Tim Burton is clearly terrified of sex. The fact that cutting hair opens the door to women being turned on by him is treated as the scariest thing in the movie.

Yes. This film is so uncomfortable about any sort of sexuality. There's also that tension of he's cutting their hair and he's doing it so quickly and they're mildly turned on by it. I kept thinking, oh, he's

going to hurt them. Oh, he's going to snap an ear I feel like Conchata Farrell if someone has a line about like that's the greatest thrill of my entire life I can't remember who it is but that becomes half of the thing A he's like a hair genius

he's the Picasso hair but B it's also the experiential thing of like you know it's like a Russian roulette, I guess, or something. Oh, sure. Like that he's, it's like getting a close, you know, razor shave or whatever, right? Or you're on the edge of danger.

Or it's something like, it's like a very high stakes version of like a trust fall. Sure. Like the rush comes from the fact that you have to trust that he knows what he's doing. Because like one false centimeter. Which is inherently the tension with any hairstylist, right? Right, correct, correct. The, will this be okay? Am I safe with you?

Right, right. But I also feel like it is. Because if it's not okay, it won't be okay for a while. Right, but it's also often the tension of sex. Where you're just like, is this going to be comfortable? Like emotionally, physically, like any of it. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. Is that movie Shampoo? Yes. Shampoo is so good. I love Shampoo. Shampoo? Yeah.

By Warren Beatty? Yeah. He's a hottie. Would you rather get your hair cut by Warren Beatty in Shampoo or Edward Scissorhands? Warren Beatty. Really?

Oh, Scissorhands. Yeah, Scissorhands. All those hairstyles are awesome. The flamingo. I like the design of every look. The cube. Yeah. But in the other scenario,

Warren Beatty touches your head with his hands. Yeah, I'd rather just go up to Warren Beatty at a bar and ask him to touch my head. I don't want him cutting my hair. Well, you didn't present that as an option. Okay. Yeah, Warren Beatty is obsessed with volume

and shampoo I don't need more volume I'm already a puff boy I like volume I do like that it is this high speed sort of frantic thing until the Diane Weest one which is treated as this like very like this is the

now he finally has a way to show his appreciation for what she's done for him and pay her back with this like very like this is the now he finally has a way to show his appreciation for what she's done for him and pay her back with this like very tender precise haircut right also a thing we haven't talked about is i love the clothes that he's given the suspenders the big slacks the tucked in white shirt it looks so it is a great look it's such a cool design yeah then everything goes wrong at the end. Right, because Winona doesn't come in until minute 40, and even then she's still

kind of backhanded. For a while she's ignoring him. She's got her boyfriend. She's just kind of making ooh faces at the dinner table. She realizes that he's nice and that her boyfriend's a jerk. Right. Anthony Michael Hall wants to steal his dad's TV. Sure. His dad doesn't trust him.

Which is such a slimy disgusting like American jock thing to like feel your father. Right. Right.

I'm scared of my old man. There's one thing I'm scared of it's the old man. But they realize it's a smart scam though. What?

Yeah. Steal your dad's TV. You know? I think that's a good plan. though. What? Yeah. Steal your dad's TV, you know? I think that's a good plan. Yeah, and then step two, where do you put it? You sell it. You go to a pawn shop, and then you get some money. I always thought that. Wait, so he's breaking into his own house.

Can you remind me why he doesn't have keys to his own house? His dad has this special room that only he has the keys to where all his fancy shit goes. Probably because he knows his son is... That's what he said. My dad doesn't trust me. If this character were a little more self-aware, he'd relate to Edward in that his father perceives him as dangerous.

My own house. Right. He's perceived as dangerous. He can't go around nice things. Yeah. But this guy... Instead, he just thinks of Edward as a tool. Meanwhile, Edward is given free range

to go anywhere he wants in that house having scissor hands. When he runs away, Arkin's just like, hey, went over there. I don't know. He's on a walk. Yeah.

But Edward knows it's a privilege, not a right. This isn't... No, no. Alan Arkin singing on the rooftop is later, right? That's when the mauling does right? That's near the end. When he's stapling the snow, because it is California. Right, but he's like really

having a go at that song. Yeah, he's great. He won an Oscar. For Little Miss Sunshine, but I mean, he deserved it for this. Right, but they said accidentally like, this is Alan Arkin's first Academy Award for singing on the roof. I'm sorry, Little Miss Sunshine. Yeah, and you know, it all goes

wrong. Come on. You know, we know what goes wrong. He's a scissorman. It's gonna go wrong. Yeah, I think that inevitability scared me as a child. I just didn't know how wrong it was gonna go, and I didn't want the fun times to last. Like, once I had been lulled into the security of like, they accept him. It's

fun. He's an artist. I so dreaded the the turn right but um obviously he makes the ice sculpture and bonona dances in the snow but right after that it all starts ralph griffin thought was the peak of romance yes boy uh yeah yeah yeah it was how's your have your relationships with women been through your life? They tend to dislike the fact that I wear scissor hands at all times. I would say. But they love the snow. And insist on dancing in snow.

These are my relationship goals. This is who I learned from. What else? Is there anything? Come on. I'm trying to think of other details. The thing that always shocked me as a child and honestly shocks me now is that he kills someone at the end.

Right. You don't think he's going to do that. What's also shocking is the bully should know that he Don't fight a scissor man. You don't punch a scissor hand man. What's crazy He's so cocky, right? And Edward's such a

downtrodden doormat of a person, he thinks. But he ignores the old adage, never bring a fist to a scissor fight. He's fighting with fists in a scissor fight, David.

He does have a gun. He does have a gun. My favorite subplot in the movie is the son from Honey, I Shrunk the Kids trying to get Edward to play rock, paper, scissors. Right. Yes. And then getting tired of playing rock, paper, scissors.

Such a fun baby little joke. It's such good kid logic of like, this guy would be the best to play with because his hands are one of the things and then realizing no, he's the worst to play with. His hand no fun only one of the things how do you guys feel about vans with flames on them i mean i like oh yeah i'm into that i think you're more i saw that as a kid and i was like fuck i want that van so why don't you have it yeah i i'm too responsible my license is suspended is it really yeah i thought when you asked that question,

you meant like slip-on shoes with flames tamped on them. Oh, like Vans. That's what I think when I hear Vans. Well, I've had those. Right, like limited edition Guy Fieri Vans, which I'm very into those. Those are cool. Fire shoes are cool.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Are there other things to talk about here? No. I mean, it all goes Pete Tong, as the English would say. And he's chased to the mansion. Yeah.

And by people with pitchforks. They don't have pitchforks, but they might as well. Right. And the cop helps him cover up the murder. Yeah. No one, like no one really picks up the body.

There's no, there's no. I think everyone's too scared. They want to, they want to forget about that. There's no informing of, well, scared they want to they want to forget about that there's no informing of well what about this kid's parents

no and it kind of is clear everyone hates this fucking kid yeah they just dissipate they're just like look I mean death is a death

it's a sad thing well this like cancels it out because we like grew to hate the other one too but now they're both dead I mean if we were gonna lose one guy from the community

right this was probably our first round pick right i also feel like um the the the idea is that maybe like a generation or two later you know people will forget about it the house will just stay there he'll just stay there right and then maybe once again someone's interest will be peaked enough to sort of like go check it out again and maybe he'll come back. That's the thing he's so close still to all these people and they just like choose to turn him into a legend. Right. But I mean it is kind of nice that like

Anthony Michael Hall charges for him and then he sticks the hands out sort of self defensively so it's not like he didn't know he was going to kill him. It's also not like he's initiating. It's just shocking this is like a PG movie you know. You just don't see it going this way. It's also not like he's initiating. It's just shocking. This is like a PG movie, you know. You just don't see it going this way. It's a PG-13.

To see him with that much blood on his blades and all of that sort of stuff. But it is also the thing you expect. He's a scissor hands man. Right. You know, we are finally, yeah, the worst nightmare And then the surrender is like this is where I belong. I should sit by myself in this

corner for the rest of time. Right. Which I just found unbearably sad. Like, this movie made me cry a lot as a child. But I do think, obviously, at the point that Tim Burton's making this movie, he, like, his art has connected with the masses. He's found his place.

He's very successful. People are letting him follow his whims to the end of the earth. So I don't think it's about him actually feeling disconnected from society as like a citizen at this point. I think the movie is just about him being like, I don't think I will ever understand other people. You know, like there's this concession. The fact that Edward chooses to stay, that the movie doesn't end with the people killing him but it ends with him being like I'm just going to sit here and pretend that I'm

dead and just wait out my eternity is him just sort of like maybe you know that's what I'm saying maybe things will change yeah maybe come back right the daughter comes back or whatever the granddaughter I don't know but yeah it does it does just feel like

him being like it doesn't matter how much people like my art. My pitch got bought. Edward Scissorhands 2. I just sold that for $5 million. Oh wow. What happens this time around? She goes back up and he's there still. Who, the granddaughter? Yeah, although actually we should talk about Johnny Depp because that's the real

reason you can never make an Edward Scissorhands 2. Oh, right. This is, I will say, we've been watching obviously a lot of Depp recently. This is, I will say, we've been watching, obviously, a lot of Depp recently. This is not a great time to re-watch Depp. This is the one that makes me the saddest. You mean just because

of what was sort of once so great about him as a performer? Yes. And also, I think he was able to run off the juice of this movie for so long in terms of, like, he also

was misunderstood. Like, he's not one of these Hollywood movie stars. He's not some asshole. He's actually this weird, wounded, lost soul. Right, it's the Cole Sprouse. Right. He was the Cole Sprouse of his time. Because I think that was the thing ofouse of his time because i think that was the thing of like everyone thought giant depp was just another pretty boy but actually he feels as

weird as we do and then sort of coming to realize like oh no maybe he's just like the same sort of like but he's talented so there's that he is or was talented well i mean even amber heard in her allegations and all that you know when when they were having the divorce, was pretty clear about he became an alcoholic and a drug addict. Yes. Where she was saying he was not always an alcoholic and a drug addict. He has entered a spiral of super addiction that is ruining his mind. Yeah. She included all that in the divorce papers and all that sort of stuff when they were, like, figuring out their divorce.

Yeah, yeah. And it also is, I mean, you read all those pieces about it and you just, like, calculate, like, how much fucking money he was making off the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. And it's like, that's just not good. Well, you know, like, that kind of, like, when people stop saying no to anything and you start having insane amounts of money, especially when you're a weirdo. Right. Like it's the same thing with like, wait a second, like Nicolas Cage bankrupted himself buying dinosaur skulls. Right. He built a pyramid like in the desert that he lives in or whatever.

There's a reason why like the people who have billions of dollars are like boring businessmen. Yeah. I mean, it's really a slippery slope. Right. reason why like the people who have billions of dollars are like boring businessmen yeah i mean it's really a slippery slope right like people who like don't have interests or personalities and just like really having money right yeah whereas i think if you like things and you have access to all that money you start going insane i like wine and i'm so interested to just see like a like a rundown of what he was consuming in like a week of how expensive these bottles are. Wasn't that the thing, though, when they were like, it's been said you're spending 30 grand a month on wine. He's like, that's outrageous.

I spend way more than that. Like in that recent Rolling Stone article. That's slander. I'll sue you. It's 50K. I just love the idea of him drinking like a burgundy from like 80 something and just slamming it down like that's so crazy

yeah right right he's just like drinking wine like it's cans of beer and I believe he's just still in that state that Rolling Stone

article suggested that he's basically just like a hash smoking monster right he was sued Front City Lies for punching someone

and the lawsuit was like he just reeks of alcohol and does drugs all day. And the movie has still not been released, and he lives in his own weird mansion. He's had to sell most of his properties, including the small French village that he owned. Not only did he own a Caribbean island,

but he owned a small French village in which he owned every house in the village, and he paid to keep a staff on retainer for the different houses. So he was like, this house is our kitchen. This house is our dining house. Like, here's a small, quaint Beauty and the Beast style.

Oh, wow. But that's the thing. Like, if you're Johnny Depp and you're like, I love the way it feels to be in a small, rustic French village

and they're like, hey, here's $80 million. Then you do that. Then you build your own weird French wino Disneyland. Sure. Anyway, he now lives in like a mansion.

He never goes outside. He's a vampire and he drinks all the time. Apparently, the only people he's surrounded by are like the people who work for him. Like his lawyer. Salaried employees, right. He also has a band. You know what they're called? Hollywood Vampires.

Yes, sir. Should we play the box office game? We should. Okay. Cool. This movie? We should. Okay. Cool. This movie did weirdly well. Yeah. This movie made, I'm going to get you the total, $56 million.

See, I'm so bad with money. I don't know if that's a lot or a little for a movie. Well, adjusted for inflation, it's about $120. Yeah. And that's a lot or a little for a movie. Yeah. It's a lot of money for any movie, except for a really big movie. But it's a lot of money for any movie but it except for a really big movie but it's a lot of money

for a movie like this yeah I don't think this movie was that expensive what do you think I think it probably cost about 20, 30 yeah

and took place on that one street yeah exactly right 20 million dollar budget right right

and beyond that like the movie is sort of like right doesn't have a big well Winona is maybe approaching big stardom at that point

but like doesn't have a huge star it's a weirdona is maybe approaching big stardom at that point, but it doesn't have a huge star. It's a weird pitch. It's certainly not a movie that's guaranteed to be a huge success. It opened small. This on its face maybe looked like the small passion project he made in between Batman movies. And the fact that it worked

at the time rather than being a cult hit years later is kind of surprising yeah um so it opens limited release two theaters december 7th 1990 number one that uh week in its fourth week my guess is it's the biggest movie of the year of 1990 yes it is the biggest movie of the year it's a kids kid's movie. Very Christmassy. Oh, Home Alone? Home Alone! Yeah.

What do you think of Home Alone? I don't get the American obsession with Home Alone. Go on, go on. No, go on. It's awful. I remember scenes of it that I like all the, you know, when the little traps he sets. But there's this incredible nostalgia for Home Alone that I can't seem to access. Even though when I was that age or whatever, I really enjoyed it and I loved it.

It feels like there's been a thing in the last three years where our generation has started demanding that it be ushered into the canon as one of the undeniable classics. And not even like that's a movie we all have nostalgia for, but can we all agree that it's a wonderful life home alone?

You know? Which I don't get. Now, that's a movie that I would watch in bits and pieces on TV. I maybe didn't have the formative experience. I think some people would watch it a lot. Right. I didn't see it in theaters. I would watch two a lot more because it was set in New York. It was set in New York, yeah.

Yeah, I'd watch that one too, and Donald Trump's one of my favorite actors. But it is weird to me how it's gone, not just even like a Goonies thing where it's like, well, it's kind of cheesy, but come on, we all love the Goonies. To being like, we all agree that Home Alone is a flawless masterwork, right? Right, right. Very odd to me. I don't know. I'm not shitting on the movie.

No, I will say, though, in its fourth weekend, it made pretty much the same it made in its first weekend. It was one of those crazy box office successes. Wait, Home Alone as Scissorhands? No, no, no. Like, Home Alone. Home Alone made more money than Scissorhands. No, I'm saying like in Home Alone's fourth weekend, it's making Home Alone's first weekend. Right, it keeps on No, no, no. Home Alone made more money than Scissorhands. No, I'm saying in Home Alone's fourth weekend,

it's making Home Alone's first weekend. It keeps on making, not dropping off. It was one of those weird phenomenons. People just kept going back. It was one of the 10 highest grossing films of all time. Sure. It was crazy, crazy successful. Adjusted $600 million.

Yeah, that's insane. It did the fucking same amount that Black Panther did this year. When he puts the aftershave on, it burns his face. Sure. I don't know if I remember that scene. I remember that scene. I remember shaving

was a part of it. Yeah, no, and then he screams. Because he wants to be a grown-up, you know. He puts his hands on either side of his face. I don't remember that. Oh, you should re-watch it.

I'm not familiar with that. He also brutalizes these two burglars with various weapons. Well, they're more these two burglars with various weapons. Well, they're more than just burglars. They are wet bandits. Which is a good name for your bandit crew. Ben likes wet things.

And I say that in the least sexual way possible. Number two is a very snowy movie as well. Horror movie. A snowy horror film. Christmas again with the Christmas. It's very Christmassy interesting at the moment

another an Oscar winner this is a snowy horror film that's an Oscar winner in December isn't that crazy what the fuck what a movie this is

I love this movie does it win a performance award yes best actress it wins best actress oh it's the film Misery Misery

Kathy Bates James Caan yeah that's it so I it wins best actress. Oh, it's the film Misery. Misery. Kathy Bates, James Caan. Yeah. That's it. So I, Julio, as we were saying,

money scares me, but this is the one money thing that makes sense to me. Where I have this weird, box office, catalog for box office. Oh, sure, sure, sure.

Yeah. Misery. Huge hit. Yeah. Well, not a huge hit, actually, just a solid hit,

but a surprise, you know, good movie, good movie and a win for. A surprise Oscar winner. A good movie. A good movie and a win for Kathy Bates. Number three is... I feel like that's a head-of-her-time style icon. I feel like you go to Bushwick now, a lot of girls are dressed up like Annie Wilkes.

Sure. With the sort of little dress and the bow and the hair. The ceramic penguin always points north. That's what she says in that movie. Yeah. Yeah. And certainly

you go to Bushwick it's lousy with Ceramic Penguin. Yep. Yep. He didn't get out of the cock-a-doodie car. Number three

is an old star and a new star together. And the old star is directing. This is a hard movie to explain. Old star and new star

also directing. To give you clues. Is it a Clint Eastwood film? Mm-hmm. Is it the one with Kevin Costner no even younger and less good Charlie Sheen

what's it called one of Easter's worst movies in that it's just very forgettable it's not called The Scout it's called The Something it's not called The Recruit but it is an R it's not called The Recruit? No, but it is an R. It's not called

The Rookie? It's The Rookie. Really? That's what it's called. Weird. One of the Eastwoods I haven't seen. Number four is the Best Picture Winner of the Year. Of 1990. It's your boy. This is your boy. You just said his name. I just said his name?

Eastwood? What? What did I say his name? That's your boy? You just said his name. Eastwood? What? What did I say his name? That's your boy? You just said his name. Eastwood is your boy? No, Eastwood's not his boy. When did I say his name? Just five seconds ago.

You were trying to guess Eastwood's co-star. Oh, oh, Costner. It's Dances with Wolves. I'm sorry. He was in a movie with Kevin Costner. I high-fived Kevin Costner and I cut it out. But the gif lives forever. Good. I do it for the gifs. and they cut it out. But the gif lives forever. Good.

I do it for the gifs. That's the one thing I write into my contract. I do it for the gifs. Yeah, you gotta be a gif. You gotta become a gif. You gotta get a gif. Gotta get a gif, bro.

Number five is a sequel to one of the highest grossing films of a few years ago. Jurassic? Comedy. No, no, no. Very, very

high concept comedy. High concept. Three men and a little lady three men and a little lady and a little lady was that one directed by Nimoy as well no Nimoy's out he's not interested it is weird that Spock directed the highest grossing film of a year yeah

he made three like hits and then he made three weird movies and then that was that yeah that Gene Wilder movie he made is like a disaster the yeah that Gene Wilder movie that he made is like very weird disaster like the last movie Gene Wilder ever did Leonard Nimoy

yeah so that's it we're done wow what's to say Edward Scissorhands we stand a legend yeah Johnny Depp

send us some wine right sure he's looking to like kick some of the collection Johnny Depp seek help and be publicly

accountable for your sins. Please. Yes. Do you think Tim Burton and Wes Anderson like each other? You know, I had that thought watching this. They've always been like the sun and the moon to me. Yes, yes, yes. One, you know, the pink to the black, the very like decided aesthetic.

Sure. It's an interesting question. They're two sides of the same coin. And they're both fundamentally comedy directors, which I think people sometimes lose track of, that, like, comedy is the main thing they're interested in. But they can also make dioramas together. Right.

The big difference is that, like, Wes Anderson has just become like more and more analog like moving backwards retro technique. And Mr. Tim Burton is a green screen on top of a green screen. Yeah. He green screens green screens into green screens. Yeah.

And then also now like he doesn't seem to generate his own stuff anymore. Like he sits around and waits for someone to be like Dumbo and he's like fine. Yeah. Okay. You know whereas Wes Anderson's like Dumbo and he's like, fine, yeah, okay. You know, whereas Wes Anderson's like, he's cracking open that notebook every time. Right, right. Coming up with something new. His monogrammed notebook.

His very carefully monogrammed notebook. Yeah. Where just, I guess, to sort of speed round, I mean, I don't want to put you on the spot with this, but the reason I knew about the Colleen Atwood thing that you were such a big fan is because your favorite movie the last couple years was Huntsman Winter's War yes, my favorite costumes too

is that an Atwood? I saw that movie, I reviewed that movie yes that was a movie that was costumes first right you kept on going bananas about the poster campaign for that movie

Queen of Ice vs Queen of Snow Queen of Ice vs Queen of Gold Queen of Ice vs Queen of Gold and I love that it wasn't a battle of the elements necessarily because one was ice and the other one was gold so it wasn't fire and ice it wasn't ice and the other one was gold. So it wasn't fire and ice. It wasn't silver and gold.

No, it was ideologies. One of them represented the idea of snow. And have you seen this film? I have not. I have seen this film. Oh my god. It is... It's crazy. The logic, it's both a prequel and a sequel to the Snow White movie. Right, it opens like in

media rest but then you go back to like when she was still around. And the Because isn't Charlize only in like 10 minutes of it? She's only like right at the beginning and the end. She's in the beginning and the end which are the best because that's when the queens are there. A lot of it is just. The fighting queens. Yes. The fighting queens is good.

The fighting queens are great. Chastain and I completely forgot that Chastain and Hemsworth are in that. Right. They have a lot of it where they're both like soldiers on either Queens of the Great. Chastain and... I completely forgot that Chastain and Hemsworth were in that. Right. They have a lot of it where they're both like soldiers on either side of the war. Doesn't Chastain kind of play Merida from Brave? Sure. She's a warrior.

She's like a Celtic warrior type. Yeah. She's got like these two weird curves. Because that was my takeaway from the movie was like, oh, the first one's obviously riffing on Snow White and this one feels like they're now riffing on Brave and Frozen. It's a perfume commercial turned into an action film. Sure. And it is so funny.

The Charlize Theron comes out of... Oh, no, no, no. Emily Blunt is looking at herself in the mirror as the Queen of Ice, and she goes, mirror, mirror in the wall, who's the fairest of them all? And then Charlize Theron comes out of the mirror as the queen of eyes and she goes mirror mirror in the wall who's the fairest of them all and then Charlize Theron comes out of the mirror and goes does this answer your question and then

queen of eyes asks queen of gold I love that they're exclusively called high fives queen of eyes asks queen of gold but sister are you dead? And the Queen of Gold goes, not dead, but not alive. Just somewhere in between. And you can tell that the creators of the film don't know the answer.

Sure. They do not know the answer. Right. That's so crazy. I don't think that film had a script or anything. Like you said, it was just,

they designed costumes It was gorgeous improv. It was beautiful. It was gorgeous. This will come together. It's the most expensive herald ever made. Improv.

Yeah. Also, the Queen of Ice's wardrobe, I read or saw that she was meant to look soft and hard at the same time

in a very like scissor hands kind of way where it's like she's she is a queen and she's beautiful but she's also like this kind of like warrior. Yes.

So she wears a lot of, like, chain mail skirts. Sure. Scissor feet. Yeah. Are there any other, just before we wrap up, sort of, like, Burton style icons that you want to, like, pinpoint throughout the rest of the filmography?

Are there other Burton looks that, like, have stood out to you over the years? Other Burton looks? I mean, anything that becomes... The Halloween costume. Like Beetlejuice is like, wow, just like wild hair and stripes. Yeah, you're pro stripes. And the...

Not normally, but I just thought that was great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you. I'm so glad we made it happen. Yeah.

You've been like out of the country filming. We got you like just in time. Just in time because you're going somewhere. I'm going on a little vacay. Great. I'm going on a little vacay. Good for you. He's going on a vacay.

That means, fans, listen. Oh. That Glass is going to post a little late on the 20th. That's the thing that it means. We have seen Glass already. I'm now going on a trip and right when I land we're going to record the episode. You're going on a trip to process Glass

and then you'll... Right. But I'll give you my hot take. David, I'll let you say the hot take. No, Glass-terpiece? It's a Glass-terpiece. Wow. Definitely. I think most people will disagree with us most people are

other film critics are angry with me and keep saying things like explain yourself anytime I'm like I liked it I thought it was good they thought we were

trolling right they thought we were just kidding we were genuinely effusive like I was like grinning ear to ear at the end of the movie like riding a high

I was chanting I felt like that perfect movie that's what I felt like yeah I was grinning ear to ear at the end of the movie, like riding a high. I was chanting at night. Queen of Ice is the queen of gold for me. I felt like that. Perfect movie. That's what I felt like. I went, this is a Glastropies. I felt that when I saw Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets. I mean, don't get this guy started.

I saw it. I was away. I was in Scotland, and I hadn't read anything about the critical reception or the box office for Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets and I go in

hoping for the best and I come out and think timeless classic. Sure. Well, that's what it is. I come out and think perfect.

You're right. Absolutely perfect. And then I read that everyone hated it. Not me. What? David put it on his top ten of the year.

I did. And I raved it in the pages of The Atlantic which was founded by Ralph Waldo Emerson and Harriet Beecher Stone. And then later I wrote about Valerian. They died for your sins. Well, Los Spookys will be premiering sometime this year. Oh, sometime this year, supposedly.

Yes. Yeah. And you're one of the best in the biz. Oh, thank you. That's very sweet. You are too. Oh, thank you. Two people are best in the biz oh thank you that's very sweet you are too two people are best in the biz yes yes

and David is also the best in the biz another person is the best in the biz is producer Ben aka the Ben Ducer aka the Poet Laureate aka Mr. Positive aka Mr. Positive aka the Peeper aka Hello Fennel

Fart Detective Meat Lover Smoking White Benny White Hot Benny. These are all my nicknames. You can go. Graduates. Certain calls over the course of different miniseries.

Such as. Down the Hallway. Kylo Ben. 2-1-3. 2-1-3. Yeah. I'll be right back. Producer Ben Kenobi.

Ben Ishamelon. Ben Sey. Say Bennything. Dot, dot, dot. Ailey Benz with the dollar sign. Warhaz. Purdue Urbane. Ben 19. The with the dollar sign. Warhaz. Purdue Urbane. Ben 19.

The Fennel Maker. Really insightful. Robohaz. Mr. Ben Credible. Am I forgetting one? Ben Glitch, obviously. You drink Ben Hosley. Is he in there?

I'm just trying to run through the memory. Who else have we covered? It's Ang Lee. And then the Hosleday, of course. Then we don't have a Tim Burton. Emily was telling me your nickname. Well, hey, Humblebrag. Yeah?

What am I Humblebragging? New York Film Critics Circle. I'm a member. Hey, you know what? What? Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Thanks again for Guto for our social media.

Joe Bone and Pat Rollins for our artwork. Lane Monk for our theme song Go to blankies.red.com for some real nerdy shit Go to TeePublic for some real nerdy shirts Remember to sign up for Blank Check Special Features Our Patreon show at patreon.com Backslash Blank Check

And as always Oh yeah, because we got new stuff coming out New merch New merch. New merch. New merch. Announced next week. Announced next week.

Preview. Episode 200. Can you imagine 200 of these? 200. We're breaking some glass for episode 200. We are breaking glass, but it'll come out a little late. It'll come out late on Sunday, early Monday. Yes.

That's just because of vacation scheduling. It won't be typical. Let me vacay. So all you friggin' nerds, okay, hold on to your hammers. Don't be sliding and messaging me and yelling at me. It'll be out. Let me vacay, please. And as always. All set? We're All set?

We're all set? Do you have it pulled up? Do I have it? No. What do you want me to pull up? Go to IMDb. All right. I'm going to do some quote from the movie.

Okay. And then he's going to put podcast. It's going to be stupid. I butcher a quote. That's how I open the show every episode. So you have to say you could have gone up there. I butcher a quote. That's how I open the show every episode. So you have to say you could have gone up there you could still go.

And then you say how do you know he's still alive? Oh my god. Let me just get in the character quickly. I'm trying to channel. I can't imagine

you're wearing 40 pounds of prosthetic makeup. I don't know if it's 40 pounds. It wasn't bad makeup. I think it's really good. Yeah. It's good makeup. It wasn't bad makeup at all.

I remember well I'll save this. I'll save this. Are you ready? Yeah. Okay. Sure. And It's not bad makeup at all. I remember, well, I'll save this. I'll save this. Are you ready? Yeah, sure. And really feel the character.