Blank Check with Griffin & David - Ella McKay with Richard Lawson

Episode Date: December 14, 2025

It’s pretty hard being the governor of an unnamed state when you’re a 34-year-old woman with a husband who’s the heir to a local pizza empire and you’ve got a brother who has agoraphobia and your sleazy dad keeps leaving you weird voicemails and Julie Kavner is narrating your entire life story! Wooo, that was a lot. James L. Brooks’ Ella McCay is A LOT. Richard Lawson joins us to chat about this very strange movie that feels like a real outlier at contemporary multiplexes. If anything, Ella McCay is a refreshing throwback. Kind of. Minus a few glaring, mind-boggling missteps. Anyway, join us for a fun conversation about this latest Brooksian offering, and stick around for a very exciting announcement about the expansion of Blank Check Productions!  Subscribe to Richard’s newsletter Premier Party Sign up for Check Book, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Plank Jack with Griffin and David Plank Jack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check I'm not going to talk yet I'm not comfortable with podcasting So I guess you could call me a reluctant narrator But I just wanted to show up for blank check.

I owe her a lot. So let's just thank you, start. At first I was like, that's a horrible Albert Brooks. And then I read and then I was like, oh, it's actually a good Kaffner. Thank you. Late, late period, Kavner. Yeah. There is no quotes page for this movie.

I mean, it hasn't come out yet. In its defense. Even with new releases. People usually are adding things from the trailer where you can find other websites that have it. And instead, what I just had to do was go back to. the script for Ella McKay which I will talk about I read in

April of 2020 Because you read for the Kavanaugh part Exactly And they were like You don't seem reluctant enough as a narrator So what I just said Might not actually match word for word What is in the film

But it's along those lines It's something like that I'll say this as well Hi, I'm the narrator A listener of the show Messaged me sent me a private message I guess like a year and a half ago

that they had gone to a test screening of this film in 2024. Taylione messaged you? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then, like, four months ago, messaged me again. I got a flyer for another test screening. I want to go and see how much they changed. And there were reshoots, I believe,

at the beginning of this year that were fairly extensive. And he was, like, the single biggest change was on-screen Cavner narration. And, oh, like, her sitting down in front of the camera. Which was not part of the script on paper. and was not part of the original cut. They don't do it a lot. She was always meant to be narrating it and a character in the movie,

but then the like, to tell you the truth, I'm nuts about her. This is a pretty good Kaffner you're doing, and so she's 75 years old. She is. Which is the age that she should be

as a woman who's been in our industry for a long time. I think she's earned that right and she's a living legend. I love her. I... And I was honestly kind of happy to see her. Agreed.

Yeah. But at the same time, I was like, damn, Marge is, is a grandma, and yet on The Simpsons permanently, you know, 37 or whatever. Well, it's also, as someone who is still very slowly pursuing the Herculian task of having watched every episode of The Simpsons, and I'm still like 10 years behind in that, even though I knock out like 30 plus episodes a year.

So only 220 episodes ago? Like, I feel like, man, their voices have all really gotten bad and they're sounding really old. And yet when I see a clip from like a new episode. episode, it is astonishing. And it feels really uncanny, but seeing her on screen doesn't have that same effect. The problem is that Marge still looks the same age and now sounds like this. Seeing Oldie, excuse me, oldie, oldie, Julie Kaferner. I'm like, yeah, no, she sounds, she sounds healthy. Yes, it's just her voice. That's who, and in some ways you're, the brain does a trick where you're like, that's what she was always like. Yes. No, that's not actually true. Right. I read something

that Brooks has known her since she was 19. Wow. was a 19-year-old Julie Kavanaugh, like, I want to hear of the sock? Basically that. So James L. Brooks is 10 years older than her. So he would have been 29. Oh, I hope he knew her in the proper context. There was no hanky-panky.

Back then. The tagline for this film, Griff, that you couldn't find, because I think one of the posters just says a new comedy from James L. Brooks or whatever is... Is this the original poster that's her and Jamie Lee Curtis grabbing each other? Jamie Lee Curtis is sucking her life. energy's via her neck.

A poster that was thankfully replaced with the main marketing image. The iconic image. The stickiest posture, the stickiest. The suddenly iciest. You know, like, I don't know how she does it. Yeah. I nailed that fucking pose.

It was astonishing. Genzi's favorite thing in the world is the L.M.K. Challenge. And we want to make sure all of our listeners know there's still time. Just because the episodes come out, just because it's like past opening weekend, you're not too late to contribute to the LMAK challenge.

do the pose in front of the poster. But Ben and I took pictures of each other doing it. And mine was so fucking smashed by Ben's success. This was fine. I'm going to say we shouldn't even post mine. I was like, Ben, let's like try it and I'll give you notes to adjust it. And on the first try, he lined up perfectly. Well, Wantee Cosley, they've always called him.

And it's a tough pose to do because it is standing on one foot. No, I mean, I physically don't think I could do that anymore. Like, in my decrepit. I don't know how she does it. And Lieutenant Governor, the tagline was, a story about the people you love and how to survive. Oh, which is so, like, yeah, generic. A podcast about the people you love and how to survive.

Ben just show me the photo. It is actually. It's like a perfect map. I have to say, it's better than your cavitor. It's really good. Because you look at it and you're not even like, oh, he's close. You're like every angle is identical. And it's a tough pose to maintain.

What's this podcast? This podcast is called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. And I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers, and I gave it a series of Blank Chess. Yeah, I did the Julie Kavanaugh aging. Give it a series. A blanket.

An hour into this. Crazy passion projects they want. An hour into this podcast. It's just going to be me talking because you guys will have destroyed your voices with Kavner. Yeah. Oh, that's crazy about, baby. Many years ago, we did a mini-series on the films of James L. Brooks. Yeah, when was that?

It was shockily long ago, actually. 17 or 18? Yeah. And what was it called? It was called podcast news. Oh, yeah. I wanted to call it as pot as a cast. And that was one of the early we're going to fight about the title in every episode,

miniseries. But podcast news, that was a great little, the nice art of us all on the TV and all that. And you made the argument, which was fair of... Cast. He made a movie with the word cast. Beyond that, he made a movie with odd cast. Yes, right. You were like, Griffin, come on, we can't not do this.

We covered him. It was in 2018, early 2018. And I would say, so at that point where eight years passed, how do you know? Yep. Which felt comfortably like the last movie he will ever make. Right, right. It was like, I guess James L. Brooks, the man is approaching his 80s. He's basically retired.

The size of the flop. Let's survey his career. No one's going to let him do this again. Does he have the energy to even try? try to do this again. I had heard stories from people who worked on that film and people who auditioned for that film where they were like noticing how much, since he takes such a long time in between films, he was like, I forgot it takes this much energy, that he was seeming worn down

by trying to get through another movie. And yet, here we are, 15 years after, how do you know? In blessed years. James L. Brooks returns a follow-up new release to a miniseries I thought would never fucking happen. I will say I probably would have put the odds about the same as the directors we've covered who are dead. Right. It is astonishing that this movie exists. Suddenly there's a new Buster Keaton movie that you're, yeah. And, you know, he's a blank check guy. He had a couple massive successes, but also. He may be among the blankest of checks in a way. I got you this character poster

for Steve Zon and Anaconda. What do you think? I don't want to see that movie. Oh, too bad. Everything about it makes me angry. And yet, I see Zon. I see Zahn over the shoulder and I'm like, he doesn't get to do this that often anymore. It's about them making a remake. So they're aware of the movie Anaconda. They were kids. Oh, they're not just aware.

They're big fans. They were kids who remade Anaconda in their backyard. And then now as adult in a sort of tag-like, let's pick up our childlike traditions. Let's go back and remake it again, but this time go to the real jungle. And when they get to the real jungle, something actually goes wrong. Correct. So it's like Tropic Thunder plus Be Kind Rewind, plus the fucking rewind, Plus the fucking Raiders, kids' documentary,

plus, you know, the eighth circle of hell. But we don't let Steve Zahn do broad studio comedies anymore, so I guess they have my $20 or $32 and 40X or whatever, so I can feel some fucking snake spit at me. The point is, Ella McKay is getting a wide release from the folks at 20th Century Studios, now a division of Walt Disney Pictures, a move that just, like, shocked every,

when it was announced, and the scuttle butt had been quietly for the last three years, this is a quid pro quo. It's a very specific type of blank check, which is we will let you make another film at a capped

budget. Yes, maybe not $120 million. Maybe not. Yeah, they learn their lesson. If you can successfully convince everyone to make a Second Simpsons movie and like Clockwork, the Second Simpsons movie was officially announced one month ago. It is like a sort of a like hostage negotiation blank check,

but he was holding valuable cards for them. I mean, I remember reading about when they were like, because my parents live in Providence, Rhode Island, where this movie was largely shot. And so there was like local news about like James L. Brooks, terms of endearment director, casting, you know, locals in Providence. And I was like, oh, my mom was like,

that's so exciting. What do you know? And I said, oh, that's probably not going to happen. You said, how do you know? Well, exactly. But I was like, that seems like something that. I said, fanglish. I just said it.

Well, I was speaking to my mom in Spanglish, but I just assumed that, like, oh, it's one of those things that gets announced, and then it just sort of disappears. It felt like that. And it was like, you know, he was very hands-on with these two Kelly Fremont Craig movies, who's like his mentee. Yes, good movies. Very excellent movies. The edge of 17 and are you there got us to be, Margaret, to be clear. And you would hear these kind of rumblings or he'd give, like, interviews and promoting those two films where he's like, you know what, watching Kelly work has kind of reignited a passion in me. So I previously thought I'd never make a movie again, but I've been noodling with some ideas.

And you're like, will never happen. Even if he finished a script that he wanted to make, no one's going to let him do this again. How do you know was just such a fucking calamity that one could argue kind of killed the studio comedy? I think that's like as serious a culprit as anything where that felt a bit of a blow. Yeah. I think it also like hastened the end of Nicholson's career. It hastened like everything. Yeah, it was, it's, it certainly, it like stopped.

It stopped Owen Wilson for being a movie star. It sent Reese Witherspoon to television. It was like a Chernobyl level. It did a lot of shit. The way it like poisoned everyone who came within like a thousand miles. Rudd, you know, you know, he's fine. Yeah, I mean, it's like, thankfully he had Marvel coming up soon. Like, truly, you know, which kind of like bounced him back.

But then you're like, right, here's Paul Rudd. Like one of our greatest comedy stars doesn't really get to make comedy movies anymore unless they're an Anaconda reboot or a Ghostbusters legacy sequel or Ant Man the comedy version, you know, the closest thing that Marvel has to pure comedy. So funny. This is what I'm saying. But like, he's become a big budget IP comedy guy where you're like, well, he's got a little off the hump energy.

But like the role models days are far over. And how do you know, I think was supposed to be a transition moment for like Paul Rudd from role models to like, I would say almost equivalent from Tom Hanks making the, the switch from Bachelor Party to sleepless in Seattle. Classy. Right. He could be a classy comedy star. Elegant, expensive, elevated comedy. He comes out of it the most alive and yet has to totally pivot.

There's like a year's true. Between those movies. Yeah. Yeah. What I was going to say is that... No. Okay, fine. What were you going to say? No, just to get ahead of this, I read the script several years ago. I did not audition for it. My rep sent it to me and said, do you want to read this to see if you're interested in playing the brother.

And I get to the brother character and I'm like, this character is supposed to be like 23. I'm in my mid-30s. And Ella McKay is a character that exists across like three temporalities. But at her oldest, she's in her mid-30s. If they cast an actress who is like late 30s and age her down for the earlier stuff, then maybe we can put a fucking wig on me

and thousand pounds of makeup. And you would sing waving through a window. I was like, this is the exact part I would have wanted to audition for when I was 22. Of course. Like, even reading it, I was like, fuck. And the second they were like, it sounds like he wants to cast Emma Mackey. I was like, I'm not putting myself on tape. This is embarrassing.

If Julie Kauffner had played the Emma Mackey part. Yes. I could have played the younger brother. But when I read the script, I was like, are they really going to make this? And it was like, it hasn't been greenlit yet. But they're letting him do casting to see if he can assemble the right people. Then the writer strike hits like a week after I read it. And then the sag strike, and I was just like, fuck.

If this thing is now slowed down for six months in casting, this is never happening. No. Yeah. And you show you're really long, right? The script. The script is longer. Yeah. But who's our guest?

Oh, yes, right. Our guest today and talking about Ella McKay, a movie starring Emma McKay. So true. Emma McKay, the great Richard Lawson. Hello. Now, usually, when you come on the show, we introduce you with the same. old tired bylines. Yeah.

Oh. So I was let go from Vanity Fair because they found out I had been sleeping with Congressman Barney Frank for a number of years. Ooh, his.

Nipples visible. While reviewing his films, his many, many stag films. And also, to be clear. Remember that film? Yeah. No, the real problem was that you were sleeping

with him in the side apartment of a government building. You know that. Come on. You know that old thing. These narratives

are. stinks and clear, Griffin. There's no question. I swear I'm not going to do this what was different in the script thing. And I even went out of my way to not reread the script so that I wasn't being persnickety about that. But I feel very confident that in the original script, the affair was happening in the phone call center. Which would make a fuck up a lot more. Which they take so much time to set up in this movie and then it doesn't really impact anything. But instead they're like, you know, it turned out there was an apartment in a government building that no one uses. that we snuck into.

Because I guess if the affair happened in the phone call building, it wouldn't have been a crime. It wouldn't have been a crime. I mean, look, the entire quote-unquote scandal is engineered in this way to make it nobody's fault

and nobody's really done anything wrong. And you know what I mean? Like, it's like... They were just trying to make a baby. It has to be calibrated in this like really, you know, inoffensive way. If anything, kind of one of the big conceits of this movie... It's funny if she, like, shot someone.

If, like, what if someone got caught in a scandal that actually doesn't mean anything to anyone? Right. But technically could be. used to take them down, even if there's no real offense being committed here. Right. Like Watergate. And in my memory, exactly. They just wanted to read the files.

That's all. Let them look. Why not? What have you got to hide, Democrats? In my memory, it being set... Your strategies? Oh, okay. In the, like, campaign phone bank center. Yeah. Was explained through, like, 15 additional pages of

how Byzantine that law was, that it wasn't illegal, but it affected campaign finance. Is it possible? deeper into James L. Brooks. Is it possible it's based on some real scandal he, like, you know, noticed the, you know, quote, you hear this shit about him where he was, like, spending five years researching retired female softball players for how do you know? Because he's just like, I got very caught up in their lives. And, like, no one talks about this.

And I had to research for five years before I could even write a single word. And this feels like there is some case he heard about. Yeah. Of, like, that's weird that there are laws like this. But a funny technicality. Right. And whether he. with an imaginary one sparked by that idea or he based it around a real thing. I don't know.

And he, he did, like, interview a lot of politicians, like, in the writing process, right? And so, like, I wonder if he talked to a lot of female politicians who were like, yeah, when you're, like, that busy and you're, but you're trying to start a family, it's actually really hard to find time to do, you know what, you know, and maybe that, I don't know, but it's something, it's like there was a better way to include that idea in the story that we feel about almost everything in this movie, a movie that I did not hate. Yeah. But is certainly gas leak cinema. Yeah. You saw it David and came back to me and said, I kind of liked it. And I was like, that's exciting. And you went, I mean, it is like handily by default his fourth best film.

Right. But that's a, there's a big gap. Even people who hate this movie, I think, will need to concede it as his fourth best film. Does that make Spanglish? No. Well, someone in this room is probably going to. Wait. As far as it gets as a third best.

I re-listened to this Anglish episode, and I'd forgotten how endearingly Ben really liked the movie. I think it's fun. It's a great. And your contributions in that episode are lovely because it's like tempering my disdain. I saw this movie with Ben Hosley earlier this week, and he turned to me the second it was over, and do you know what he said? Ben? Kind of liked it. Good.

Excuse me. Excuse me. No. You said, I loved it. I did. While doing the pose? Yeah. No, I really did love it.

I don't know. Oh, I'm glad. And I'm not sure. I've been thinking about how to mount a defense for it. And it's, I don't know how even to, other than, and it's the same thing with Spanglish. I just, I like these small stories about regular people that I find someone endearing, though often at times annoying, but that feels authentic. And even the Tet-on-Tet kind of repertet dialogue kind of stuff, it doesn't create me. Even though I would like expect it to.

I actually just like, I lock it. We sat next to the great Bob Marshall and Ben's, what are you guys talking about? I loved it was in response to me saying yeah, it's kind of bad, but it's the type of bad movie I've really missed. And a type of bad movie I greatly

to prefer to most of the shit the studios are putting it. I miss that genre of movie so much. Your sister brother podcast, this had Oscar Buzz did an episode recently on used people. like a very forgotten you know

like who's in that Shirley Maclean right yeah Kathy Bates yeah Tandy yeah that's the principal summoning Jessica Tandy to the office and they're all playing a Jewish family Marcelo Mastriani

Marsha Gay Hardin Joey Pants I'm actually not noticing a lot of Jews but yeah sort of a this is where I leave you but anyway not a good movie but like man they used to just make movies about like a quirky family or like someone trying to like We all live in a neighborhood.

And we yell at each other. I mean, it's sort of a moonstruck runoff. I'll also say, like, having a couple days sitting on it, I'm, like, finding more and more reasons to put up tiny, half-hearted defenses for elements of this movie. Elmike is good. Elements. We should plug things. Yes.

But before that, I have to tell you the dual tagline of used people. It's a float, you know, let's see. I'm seeing Marcia, Kathy, Shirley, Marcello, and Tandy. And it's first names only. on the poster? No, I wish it were. But they're all sort of grouped together. And then Shirley's kind of like got her, she's like leaning on the moon.

You know, so it's very moonstrucky. And then there's a boy playing the accordion below them. Not sure why. But what I like about the tagline is it's like me saying I'm done talking about something. Here's the tagline. A story about love, family, and other embarrassments.

Used people. Here's the second tagline. Life's tough. So laugh a little. Come on. You got a problem with us making the cook? Why don't you watch it? It's funny. We promise.

It's so defensive. But it's also a little, like where it's not giving you expectations, like big expectations. Life's tough. What are you going to do? Not see you used people? And then at the very end of the closing credits, it says, you didn't like it. What do we care? We got your money.

Go home. Richard. Yes. The shocking news. So I got booted for my congressional sex scandal. It shook the nation. Yeah. But, you know, from every disgrace comes opportunity.

Right. You've written a book called American Cantone. It's a, I go through Mario's. And you're re-released in your EP jailbait. Yeah. You could not write that. That is true. We found her fucking Myspace music.

I could not believe that move. It's spelled G-A-O-L, like. the British. Yeah, very Victorian. Yeah. I sing it in a cockney accent. It's actually pretty great. No, I started in a newsletter

called Premier Party that it's on Beehive, but it's not substack, it's Beehive. It's going to be movie reviews and other things, recaps. Probably the recaps will live behind the paywall, like Traders Recaps, maybe some other shows, reality shows. Very excited about that. In the glorious days of recapping,

you were one of the internet's greatest. Well, part of her. Thank you. It's the only reason I have a career, frankly. So, yeah, truly, your whole generation basically are the people who made it out of the recap industry alive. I got, speaking of the set Oscar buzz, Joe Reed, I got hired at Vanity Fair because

of Gossip Girl recaps because I knew the person who eventually, like, put me up for the job through Gossip Girl. So anyway, I'm excited to get back to that. I hope your listeners whom I love, and, you know, I've been with for a long time now. You have. This podcast is... One of our oldest and yours friends. We'll subscribe if they have the means to do so.

I'm excited to read it myself, and I'm very excited for this new endeavor. You're plugging here that in no way affects my daily stress level or amount of responsibilities on a weekly basis. That's it. Wait a second. What's in this door, Creek? What's in this congressional apartment? Yeah, there's one other thing that we're doing. There's one other thing that we're...

We are incredibly excited about. which is we're testing the water of expanding the Blank Check Productions umbrella a little bit and we are excited to announce that there is going to be a mini-series running at the beginning of next year. It will be on our feed. The same feed you're listening to right now

there will be a second release episode later in the week, every week, to a week. Richard, do you want to tell people what the show is? Yeah, it's going to be a recap of the second season of Designing Women. So get watching now. We've heard your cries. We're finally answering them.

Can't wait for it to talk about, you know, Gene Smart back when. It's called Podsigning Wincast. It's called Meshach Taylor cast. No, the show is called Critical Darling's because I am a film critic still, even though I'm just an independent newsletter person. And you're just darling. Well, thank you. I'm a little darling, a little cutie.

And my co-host, the great Alison Wilmore, of Vulture. is also a film critic. And she is also, even darlinger than I am. Yes. But we're also, second meaning, going to be talking about movies that were, for the most part, some of the critical darlings of the year. Yes. As we're in, you know, top 10 season, award season, all of that. We're going to do a show throughout January, February, in March, a new episode every week that is you and Allison, produced by our friend Ben Frisch.

Yep. Producer Ben, too. Yeah, well, because you have to have a... It's in your bylaws that you guys wrote, you know. It's in the bylaws. And for a while, it was going to be Shapiro. But I would, you know, but you guys didn't really want to partner with Daily Wire for whatever reason.

But, yeah, why is it going through March? Is there something happening there that would somehow border? Yeah, right, exactly. Handing out, how do I describe them? Miniature... Nudelized humans. Males, yeah. Yeah, so it is, it is in some ways in Oscar.

podcast because we will primarily be focusing on, you know, the 10 movies or so that are best picture contenders and then later nominees. But I'm sure the conversation will expand past that and we'll talk about more critical darling movies of the year that maybe didn't get nominated. Yeah, we're just going to kind of take the temperature of this year's quote unquote prestige movies in a way that this podcast, as expansive as you guys are able to be, can't always do because they're not attached to a specific director. Occasionally we'll get an L.M. McKay, which I see this is an Oscar frontrunner, right?

It already won. Yeah. They called the ceremony off. We all know where this is going. It's kind of a bummer for the new podcast, but whatever. We'll make do. The race is over. Other candidates have announced they're stepping down. Hamnet has pulled out of the race out of deference. Hamlet is throwing its delegates to Llema Cay. Jesse Buckley committed Sepaku in front of Julie Kavana. But you and Allison are two of the best and two of the dearest friends of the podcast. And I think are people I'm always excited to read or listen to in any format, talk about what's going on. And our show obviously is often recorded very far in advance. And people love when they get to hear our new release episodes where we're talking in tighter window and can speak more about current events.

I think this show will also serve that function of being able to talk about what's going on in the movie world that week, how the sort of narratives of a year of cinema get formed. That's really what happens at the beginning of every year is we start to basically assemble the yearbook of how that year that just ended will be talked about and that ends with the awards, but that's obviously not the end of the true conversation. No, no, the conversation can go on and on.

So, but yeah, I think that it's going to be really fun to talk about these movies that, for the most part, you guys have not covered on this show, but also, like, you know, we're going to do like an episode about the nominations.

We're going to do some predictions. We're going to do, you know, lots of other stuff that's sort of related to this class of movies of 2020. We will guess, other friends of Blanktrak Universal guests were very excited about it. Thank you and thank you for

this all began to peek behind the curtain right after I lost my job I was at Barney Frank's house crying and I texted you guys Is he Frank still a lot? It's a good shoulder to cry out. I don't know, he's from my home state. Was he your congressman?

No, he's more southeastern Massachusetts so actually where I spent summers. He's the same ages, James L. Brooks, 85 years old. But I texted you, I think it was like a couple days after I got the news. kind of like not serious. Like, hey, you want to do a spinoff podcast? And then, lo and behold, all these months later,

you guys took it seriously. And that is the honor of a lifetime, so thank you. It's been many months to figure out how it happened. We should mention it's going to be a co-production with Vulture. Yes, because Allison is at Vulture. And so we're going to use some of their fine resources, and it's going to be great. And it's tremendous support.

You got both of Jesse David Fox's arms. You get to use them. That's right. Not the rest of them. Yeah. And Alice and I will solely be talking about stand-up sets we saw the night before. Right. And Rebecca Alter will break through the wall like the Kool-Aid man, but only once.

You won't know when. Right. She will have a segment each episode reviewing the popcorn bucket for that specific best picture candidate. And I'll just be like, Allison, name a Jamie Lee Curtis movie that starts between the letters R and Z. The L. McKay popcorn bucket has not been selling super well, which is the shoe turned sideways. It's hard to fuck. That's the problem. It's actually Woody Harrelson's confused head.

Less hard to fuck, but maybe you don't want to. Very excited for Critical Darling. Yes, thank you. Critical Darling's. I think we have January 1st as a premiere date. You guys will be dark that week, so we figured why not. We'll say that. That's the other fun thing is we obviously take this like the gap between kind of Christmas and New Year's off every year from our main feed. And that's when we're going to drop the first one for you to kick off 2026. And then it will come out every Thursday after that.

That's right. And, yeah, for now we're running through March. But who knows what the future holds. Who knows? Yeah. David, this episode is brought to you by Mooby, the global film company, the champion's great cinema. Yes. For iconic directors to emerging otters, there is always something new to discover.

And with Mooby, each and every film is hand-selected so you can explore the best of cinema. True. And that's right. In particular. The Mastermind. One of my favorite movies of the year from one of my favorite filmmakers alive. The great Kelly Rikart. It's streaming a movie in the U.S.

from December 12th. Kelly Rikart, First Cow, showing up lots of great movies. It's directing Josh O'Connor, the unforgettable Josh O'Connor, in her latest Can Triumph, The Mastermind. In a sedate Massachusetts suburb, circa 1970, unemployed family man and amateur art thief, J.B. Mooney sets out on his first heist. When at the museum, Caste, an accomplice has recruited.

He has an airtight plan, or so he thinks. Yeah, you like this one, right? Alana Heim, Gabby Hoffman, John McGarra, Hope Davis, Bill Camp. It's very much a Kelly take on a heist movie. Yes, it's like a... Loose and quiet and nudely and kind of political. Elusive and, yes, incredibly fine. Joshua Conner's amazing in it, in my opinion.

He's the guy right now, as far as I'm concerned. But this is a really fascinating vehicle for him. And I feel like it's Kelly Riker kind of dealing with a movie star person in a way I haven't quite seen her do before. An excellent movie, one of my favorites for the year. And that's not all they have. Obviously, Mooby has an incredible selection. Yeah, got curated streaming service.

They got all kinds of great stuff, handpicked for you by Mooby of international films, art films, always something worth checking out. But I would say that a mastermind is worth a month subscription alone. And to stream the best of cinema, you don't even have to pay for the first month. You can try Mooby free for 30 days at movie.com slash blank check. That's Mubi.com slash blank check for a whole month

of great cinema for free. There you go. It is funny that there were a couple things. It's like waiting on your wedding day. No, that's ironic. Sorry, carry them.

Yeah. It's funny. Like TBS. When we've covered director in the past, and they have a new release, we circle back, and put it on main feed.

Yeah. There were a couple things on paper. If you were looking at the schedule a year ago, where we're like, huh, some of our past subjects might be back in the Oscar race. Such as House of Dynamite. Yeah.

L. McKay. House of Dynamite. We have Avatar Fire and Ash. Is this thing on and no other choice still to come? But certainly no, none of those movies feel like significant front runners. No.

No. No, certainly not. But they're all films that were certainly positioned and have been released in this corridor for that purpose. They are very much fall to Christmas movies, yes. The original announcement was that Disney Fox was putting this in September. It was like, that feels like the obvious place to burn this off if you don't have a lot of faith in this. Everyone was saying, like, oh, it's messy. And you're like, sure, it's James Hill Brooks.

Like, yeah. And then they pushed it to the week before Christmas. And people were like, are they feeling good about it? Like, that's not an obvious place to bury a movie. No. Played zero festivals. Not even, like, AFI or anything. No.

Yeah. We will not know at the time of this recording how it's performing at the box office. But I'm expecting. Yeah. Well, is it going to be 40 million, 60 million? We're just not sure yet. Friday? Oh, I'm not sure.

Yeah. Yeah. China is going to be enormous. Bigger than Zootopia, too. I said with zero disrespect, I could see this being the first movie to open to negative million dollars. I don't think it's going to make a lot of money, and I don't think it's going to get good reviews. And a lot of that is you can just see Disney being like,

we don't even ought to fucking market this type of movie anymore. Because all of the people who used to are retired or dead. It's also the audience for this kind of movie seemingly, you know, is not really there in theaters anymore. And I like this movie. I think it's an interesting little thing. But I'd be the first to admit that it's kind of hard to explain what it is, and it's messy in that James L. Brooks way.

of it's got a lot of ideas and a lot of characters. And, I mean, the poster has nine people above the title, some of whom are famous. I mean, it's so funny to this point. First poster is Jamie Lee Curtis grabbing her shoulders, the tagline you mentioned, and that's clearly Disney being like, people like Jamie Curtis now, right?

Right, right. Let's really sell this as a Jamie Curtis movie. She's been winning awards, right. Right. We have Freakier Friday coming out the same year. Right, right. And then they transition. And she's playing a brassy matriarchal figure.

Right. An ant, actually. Right. In a supporting part. Yeah. Then they transition to the infamous pose poster on just a stark white background, trying to position it as like, this is James L. Brooks, trying to make another star-making movie, a vehicle for an actress leveling up.

Mm-hmm. And then... As it did for Tea, you know? Exactly. This final poster has been that same image, but now with, like, 27 floating heads around her. They put some square floating heads. We need every recognizable face who's in this movie. They got six in there.

They got six heads next to Ella. So they got Camille, Jamie Lee Curtis, Woody Harrelson in the most normal regular wig ever. Two of the most normal wigs. Albert Brooks. Our friend I-O. Adiope. Debris, sorry. Who is almost a spoiler to put on the poster just the way the movie treats that character.

And then Jack Loudon. So they're not putting Spike Fern on the poster despite him being, I suppose, a big character. because he's not very well-known. I would argue he is the second lead of this movie. I mean, he sort of is, but I mean, whatever. Surprisingly big part for someone who doesn't show up for a while. Or go how to act. And I'll also say from having...

Your brother takes something about it. I will say from having... I'm sure he did, yes. Read the script. Yeah. The part feels bigger in the final movie than it did in reading it because it feels like the stuff they cut out was in the other plot lines versus every single second of the brother plotline is in there.

And also, I remember it being a little more dispersed. And it does feel like the middle 30 minutes of the movie are all her and the brother. And then this big day newmont with Iyo, who this movie was passed long ago enough that she basically agrees to do this like right after season one of the bear. Yeah, and was like, and now they're marketing it with her face on the poster. And Ben was like, did they cut most of that character out? I'm like, no, it was always this one scene. It's a big scene. Yeah.

Not including Rebecca Hall. But I guess she's only got the one scene. Yes. In my memory, there was a little more that was also cut out. Not including Kavanaugh. You don't want Kavanaugh up there? Crazy about her. Not including Troy Garrity. Excuse me. I'm nuts about her. I think Garrity's not in the final cut. Well, I'm seeing him on Wikipedia.

I'm nuts. An older lady saying I'm nuts about her about like a younger woman. That is the most like Brooke. I think that might be the Brooksiest thing in the movie and it happens within the first two minutes. It was just like being put in a warm bath for me. I was like, yes, please. This is an ultimate they don't make. them like this anymore movie. And possibly they never did, except for this one guy. The argument can then be, is that a good thing or not? But you watch it and you're like, this is an experience that does not exist in our movie ecosystem anymore, certainly not coming from a major studio.

And watching this in a theater feels uncanny because you're so used to every version of a movie like this being punted straight to streaming. You know, I saw this film at Disney's headquarters. It was a weird experience. Yeah, you were there, right? Yeah. Which is they have a fairly new building down in downtown Manhattan. Yeah. With a gorgeous theater.

And also, that is huge. For a studio screening room enormous. Like, you go to like Universal screening room is pretty small. Even their old one was small. Warner's screening room small. This is like state-of-the-art tech setup. Did you see Mickey or? I didn't see Mikuto or...

You know, it was sad. Is it all the song of the South characters were in a lot of that. Yeah, they were there. And that was kind of a lot of. unfortunately. I've heard Pluto's still largely work from home. Yeah, he comes in like once a month. Yeah, he's been fighting the RTO policy with the union.

It's the whole thing. And so, yeah, it was one of those like, there's 200 seats like, take your picket. I was like, right here, baby. And I watched it with several other members of our critics organization, which is why we were seeing it. And chuckled heartily

and heard no other chuckles around me. Here's the thing about it. is that I didn't love it. You were at the same screen. I was the same screening. I didn't, I wanted more for it. But the thing is, and yes, you're right, David, it probably will get some negative reviews. And if I were reviewing it, my review ultimately would have been negative. But I don't, I'm really dreading the snark about it. I am too. Because it does not merit that. What was that? You know, kind of reaction. It's like, it's an 85-year-old guy trying to harken back to a wonderful, as Ben pointed out, wonderful era of movies when a lot of movies like this existed. And I find nothing wrong with that effort. I agree. The execution.

maybe, you know, desires, but like, I don't know. I just, I can't, I really am dreading that people being like, can you believe this scene? No, it's a problem with a lot of our discourse. And I do think when this movie likely flops, it's going to inspire a lot of really annoying headlines from just sort of industry handicappers. We're not even talking about the artistry behind it or lack thereof, you know, either one the defensible position, but are more talking about like, it makes no business sense to make this movie.

And it's like, well, this movie got made because he has this fucking control in The Simpsons. But also, we should not be discouraging studios from trying to make movies like this. It is not a big risk on their part financially. Sure isn't. No, especially now, you know.

Yeah. You know, and so I don't want to snark, but that doesn't mean that there's not a lot of to pay fun about. You know, like, that's the thing. It's, but it's a loving mockery. Some odd stuff. Yeah. Do you remember me texting you when I got the script? No.

I was filming Alex Russ Perry's pavements and there was like many hours in between setups or I wasn't needed or whatever and I'm like sitting on the set which is just like an office right on a couch and the script came through and I was like oh I'm going to read this immediately and I texted the blank check group text like halfway through it and I'm like well first I texted and I was like holy shit because the movie had reading new James Albert's front hadn't been announced yet and I was like there's a new Brooks movie they're casting and I have the script on my phone right now and then I read it And halfway through, I'm like, guys, some of this is great.

And it very much read, while not identical to the finished movie, like the movie, where I'm like, there'll be 15 pages where I'm like, what the fuck is Brooks on about? And then there's like 10 pages where you're like, oh, shit, there's an idea here. And the dialogue's crackling. And this character's fun. And I said to the group when I finished it, my big question is, this reads like the best movie he's made in 20 years. Sure.

But it's messy. and not perfect. It feels very kind of vomit drafty and even still faint praise better than the last three, or last two, I guess. And my question is, is this how like

broadcast news read early before he massaged it and got it perfect? Or did how do you know half work on paper and then he totally lost it in the process? And you hear about

how long and drawn out every Brooks production is, how he reworks things, how he rewrites things, reshoots things, and you're just like, this clearly isn't a final document, but which direction does this go in? Which is why, like, after I saw it, I was, like, texting Bobby Finger and Dan Dadario

and someone else about it, and I was like, they were like, did you like it? And I was like, I don't know. But I was like, honestly, I would watch the version that's 45 minutes longer, even if it's also a mess, at least I'm seeing the complete mess. And I'm just endlessly curious about what was cut

and what it would have added or taken away because, yeah, you're right. Like, maybe, I don't know, like, his, he can turn his vomit into something really remarkable. But, yeah, I think this movie also has like four or five major concerns. And Sims, I think you have a very good take on what the larger project is here of what he's trying to say. And I will tee you up for this in a second.

But it felt like in the script I read, it was like, there are five kind of major plot lines or themes in the movie, which all got an equal amount of attention. Right. And it's sort of like, this movie is flittering all around. Scandal, dad returning, brother problems. Yes. New job?

Marriage. Yeah. Okay. Right. I would say, like, here's what I would say. And there's this girl that's nuts about it. I would say, like, three parts about the job, right? Like public relations scandal.

Yeah. Relationship marriage. Yeah. And, like, her actual beliefs and aspiration and trying to fight. a sort of, like, stuck in the mud sense. Yeah, yeah. And then there are the two main family plot lines, which are the dad and the brother. And it felt like those five things all kind of got equal weight.

And it was still messy, but it felt a little more cohesive to me because I was just like, I understand all of these are feeding into the same larger idea. And this movie in the final edit puts the thumb on certain things that maybe they thought were more marketable, specifically the kind of more romantic-related. relationship things, that does make it feel like what is he trying to say here? David, your take? Well, so my take was that this is a masterpiece in five stars, and there's no issues. No, that was not my take.

My take was if Spanglish is his sort of like white guilt movie about like, I can't believe, right? That's clearly him processing, like, the situation. I'm this rich guy. I have this complicated dynamic with these people I employ and they're real people too, and I don't want to, you know, minimize that. And then you can just feel himself like hyperventilating, like working himself up. Like, I mean, it's just ridiculous, right? The chef movie Spangler?

Yes. My favorite chef movie. This is the other unique thing about James L. Brooks is that, like, he's not a guy who starts from like, I got a great logline for a comedy. Right. No, it's like a big, what am I thinking about? What's troubling me, right? There's a theme that's been like sticking with me lately. This is his boomer guilt movie of just like looking at the generations, you know, beyond him, his kids, grandkids.

or whatever, and being like, we've left you such a mess. Like, you're not prepared for anything because we've, like, modeled nothing well. Like, both of her father figures in this movie are disasters. Woody's a real villain. Albert isn't so much a villain.

Is this kind of well-meaning, you know, politician who is kind of fucking her over. Like, or whatever, you know, right? And, like... Is the exact thing she doesn't want to become, even though she considers him a friend and a mentor. Right. And it's like, you have to save the world. You have to put all this back together.

He's setting it. right at the 2008 where it's like the time of promise but also the time when everything fell apart and the recession happened and everything. And he's just like, and you know, you're supposed to have functioning relationships. We never, you know, we never helped you out with figuring out how to do that. And, you know, we basically have put it all on your plate, Ella McKay, because it's like this parody of a, I don't know how she does a person where it's like, yes, not only does she have the bad dad and she lost her mom and now she's in this marriage that's not totally working. And she's,

trying to fix it, but she's literally becoming the governor and having everything put on her plate. And she's like, I, I'm, I'm ready for this. I want, I, you know, I've been waiting my whole life for this. Like, I, I'm eager. I'm like, you know, I'm an idealistic person. And it's like, no, the world's, you know. How do you maintain principle and idealism when, the, when there's no more infrastructure for it? That's a big part of it. And I also think, you know, he pointedly sets this movie in 2008. And I think there are a couple of reasons why he does that. But I also, it felt reading it, like there was a little bit more of a direct mirroring between her father's scandal and her own. And this sort of like James L. Brooks working through

Me Too and cancellation culture, whatever the fuck you want to talk it, in a way that I thought was more interesting than most people who have tried to tackle it because he's not talking about what's actually happening. He's talking about like a culture and like a media that has become more obsessed with narrativeizing thing and judging things and, like, putting people under a microscope and this notion of, like, how terrible things can be downplayed and how innocuous things can become a sticking point. And if you are in politics and you are, and I don't think he's saying, like, we should just ignore sex scandals or whatever, but, but he is saying, if, if, if you are a politician trying to work in a system that is, where your job is that

precarious, is it, does it behoove you to just get cynical and just, do things that will keep you in office, or do you still try to maintain your idealism? And she's ultimately failed by her, you know, by that. She doesn't succeed in politics because of it. See, like we're talking about this. It's sounding like an interesting movie. Like, this is 100% an interesting movie,

but you're like, there are real fucking ideas in this and, like, tough questions with no answers that at times he dramatizes very well. And other times you're sort of like, what are you? When was the last time you went to a grocery store? You know? Well, it's like watching, I think I've said this, even on this podcast, but like in the movie W.E. The Madonna directed where Abby Cornish goes, she's staying with Oscar Isaac and Brooklyn after leaving her husband. And she walks under the Marcy J-stop, you know, the overpass and looks at like, there's a Hasidic person in a man selling like bird cages out of a store and a tear drips down her eye. And it's like, oh, Madonna has not talked to a real person in 15 years. Like it's a little bit of that with Brooks, but it's not as, it's not. not as, like, snooty or, um, I don't know, I don't mind it in his case.

It's like your grandpa being like, oh, what's, you know, like kind of using old colloquialism. No, and how do you know feels like a movie made by someone who hasn't talked to a person in a decade? This is so much more, yes, recognizable. A thing that, and Brooks has talked about it in the couple features I've seen written about this, you know, him for this movie, you know, and we must have talked about this back in the day. but his father abandoned the family before he was born. He has like an older sister, but his father found out,

James L. Brooks's father found out his mother was pregnant and literally like Blue Town. And he never knew his father after he was about 12. Like he occasionally would see the dad, but he had no really. And like Brooks has said the Harrelson figure, very inspired by that. Like this sort of bad dad,

you can't quite shake. And also what is James L. Brooks done? Been married a bunch of time. Had kids with different women, gone through divorces, you know, clearly not totally lived up to whatever promise he might have wanted. Just remarried last year. And I'm sure they're getting it on and he's a stallion in the sack to this day. No, I have no idea. And when he comes, it goes to do-do-d-do-d-do-do-do-do-do.

After he comes, he goes, that was the crazy. He has him going immediately to bed. God, that's hope to God, James O'Brooks is not listening to this podcast. Seeing that logo on the big screen. I yelled like Phenos had appeared. It was truly incredible. There is little that is more Pavlovian than that feeling of like me starting to love

filmed entertainment. I mean, I know this wasn't filmed, but like, you know what I mean? No. This is filmed. It's art. Yes. Popular media. Yeah. So, yeah, he's still thinking about himself all these years later, which is interesting. Here's an interesting idea. I think he's thinking about other stuff that I think is a little lost in the soup of this movie.

And it's sort of like when you're talking about what are the animating ideas behind these films at the different points in his career, right? And like James L. Brooks, when he makes soup, when his movies are soup, it's like there's lobster, there's fucking... Well, I was going to say, this is more of a chowder? Oh, that's what could...

Is it, is it New England? Okay, so I have thought about this because... It's sort of a non-state. It was filmed in Providence. I kept thinking it was like Michigan. Yeah, the Amtrak station is right across from the statehouse. So I've seen that statehouse many a time. But otherwise, it's set in a neighborhood of

that's not where my parents live, so I didn't recognize it. But what I do recognize as someone who grew up in Boston and spent his entire life living in the northeastern United States, there's no way you can fake that that's like Illinois. I really don't think. It's just topographically, the architecture. I mean, it was a chilly place. It's a chili place. It's certainly, I mean, it's obviously not Santa Fe. But, like, I just think that, like, he's kind of dining out on the assumption that a state that looks like this is probably blue, but I don't have to say it is. That's true. That's true. You know, So it's that kind of, like, broadly, like, is this Harrisburg, Pennsylvania?

Could be. But that's maybe too much of a battleground state. So in a way, I'm like just set it in Rhode Island then because that is a solidly blue state with a lot of... But then everyone would have to be like, you owe 50 grand to the mob or whatever. Well, that's true. That's, there's a mafia problem. The fact that this movie was shot in the last five years and they didn't force him to film it in like Belgrade is even anomalous. Oh, you know?

Hello, Ella. I am your new press secretary. But you're just so used to these movies being like, this is a story about a specific American city and we clearly shot it outside of the United States of America. Yeah, no, I mean, it definitely has. I love a movie that, like, is a place that is, you know, like the Gracie logo, like, recognizable to me. I have a Pavlovian response to that kind of home that, like, she lives in or, you know, those kind of streets and that particular state house. And I don't know, I kind of in a way like the anonymity of it, even if it forces Julie Cavner to say, and she's the governor of the state she was born in, you know, it's like, okay, that's not how you would phrase that. James LaBrooks is very interested in career women, right? It is like the majority of his movies are driven by how does a woman have a career? Sure. And I still don't know.

You know what? That's most of the new podcast is me asking Alice on that. How do you still have a career? But how do you know feels like what it was supposed to be was, well, female athletes, even if you get to the top of your field, that's a really fucking low ceiling. And being a professional athlete is an occupation where there is an early retirement age. And if you are the best female softball player in the world and you're forced to retire at 36, what is the rest of your life because you don't have MLB millions to bank on? Is this thing on?

Yes. There we go. But we will talk about similar themes here in a couple weeks on this. And I would argue that a volleyball career is even less lucrative than the softball. Although Olympics, there are Olympics. Olympics. softball's at the Olympics too, but I don't think as many people watch it anyway. But if someone is focused on their career and now they don't have much to take away from it

and they're trying to figure out their love life maybe at a time delay from other people who are having more of a work-life balance, feels like that's what that movie was supposed to be about. And then the fucking 2008 financial crash happens. And James L. Brooks is like, actually, I want to talk about all of this. And that movie is sort of neither fish nor foul because he can't decide what the main thing he cares about is. Well, it's, you know, it was my theory about the newsroom and a number of other things. that have come since then, which is like rich guys who don't have to do anything else, project-wise, but they've been at dinner parties at their house and they're talking about an

article they half read in the Atlantic or the New Yorker. And they feel that they really have talked about it well to their friends at the dinner party. And they're like, but wait, no one else in America heard that. Maybe I should make a TV show about what I thought about the last 18 months, you know, or how do you know, rather, had that in spades. This only has a little bit of it. And, like, I still have an overall deal at Sony. I have a bungalow. They would like for me to make something to justify the money they give me to maintain an office here. Exactly.

Like, stars still want to make my movies, you know? I got three A-lister. And I've got things to say about this thing from a few, you know. They'll let him get into this with a rougher draft. And this movie, it felt like they made him prove himself a little bit more, while also perhaps giving him more latitude than most people would get less latitude than he usually gets. But I think one of the big animating ideas here, David, is sort of what you're talking about,

which is, like, if you are so defined by the failure of your father and you try to live your life in the shadow of that, in opposition to that, is there a kind of cruel irony of you ending up in a situation closer to him than you ever imagined you would, right?

Yeah, right, right. She's like, here I am. My marriage is failing. I'm about to deal with a scandal, yes. Right, that the circumstance are very different. The behavior is very different. Her father is defined by being someone who absolutely acted in the wrong and has taken no responsibility for it for decades. And she is the opposite. Why is this even a scandal? And I may be taking too much responsibility for it in a way

that is not politically savvy. But am I also fucking up my marriage at the same time in the way my father did? Is that a good thing or a bad thing? She also ended up with a guy that's kind of like her father and that he's extremely selfish. Kind of a charming-ish self- loser who's like clearly getting by on being kind of a cutie. And to the Rhode Island of it all, I kind of think that Loudon and Becky and Baker are supposed to be a little mob coded. Like they have a pizza restaurant. But like, why cast those people? I was about to say Loudon, who is an actor I really like, is not the right casting. I think he... He's not bad at playing like a weasily guy in this. But I'll say this

and it's not me blaming the performance. No. I think this is in a way the most disastrous. as part of the movie. It's because it, that feels like the victim of the- It needs a lot more runway. It feels like it was the worst hit victim of the cuts. Yes. Yes, absolutely. But I also think his performance-

It made it sound like this is like a state budget. Well, I'm speaking in the Argonaut of the film. Needy children, by which I mean Jack Loudon, are being cut to the bone. Look, James L. Brooks gets exactly what he wants out of his actors. I'm not throwing Loudon under the bus here, even if. No. He is obviously a man who exists at the absolute center of,

my dartboard just for having the exact domestic situation I dream of. Griffin's jealous to Jack Loudon because he's married with a child with a Seria. You know who's a big Jack Loudon fan is Bobby Finger. So he has a Circerone in Dartport. We need to team up.

That harpy! Two podcasters arrested and bizarre murder plot that actually if you think about it made no sense because what was their own word in here. Yeah. No, there is some broad comedy where Bobby and I are trying to figure out how to make them think that they're breaking up of their

right. But switch with us. And the Jack Loudouns would switch orientation. Unfortunately, Bobby's plotline would involve some sort of clockwork orange conversion therapy. We don't know. Maybe Jack likes everybody. We don't know. We don't. It's true. Come on the podcast.

Jack, address me. I'm predisposed to be bone deep, jealous of this man's existence. Right. Anytime he shows up in a movie, I'm like, him. Fuck. Right. I don't actually blame for this performance, I think James L. Brooks really misdirected him. I think it's really unbalanced and the limiting of the material hurts it a lot. But it's also like, I don't think the movie ever makes a compelling case for why she was with him in the first place. And reading

the script, I felt a little bit of tension in, is this guy hiding something? This guy is so good at charming people in a way that feels genuine. He's a little too likable where what's that covering up and he's kind of guileless and it takes a while to be like, no, he's strategic about what he's doing here. And this movie, he's so slippery

from the moment you like see him kissing fucking Jamie Lucas's hand as a teenager. Yeah, no, exactly. And I also think that, you know, I don't know if you guys watch The Diplomat, but like... I do watch The Diplomat. I'm just remembering the teenage stuff. Sorry. Oh, well, we should actually talk about that.

But just real quick, Bradley Woodford plays Allison Jenny's husband. So he's the first husband. And, you know, oh, it's a man doing that role. You know, I guess he's the Doug Emhoff. But I also like Selena Myers' husband in V or her ex-husband. I think that this role suffers because I'm like,

I've seen this before recently, you know, some version of it. I could sort of buy that she ended up with this guy because she's such a driven person, she's got her career, that he just, like, is like, yeah, he's nice. And, like, that solves that part of my life

to have this kind of nice guy all sewn up and I don't have to worry about it, but that needs more. I don't think they sell him being nice enough. I think the movie needs to rest on the idea

that she is a person of such clear, unbeatable morals that her not being able to see him for what he is. And I understand people get blinded by certain things and whatever,

but I'm just like, He feels like a Scooby-Doo villain from the beginning. I also think that, in a way, not to, like, try to make a movie that doesn't exist, but, like, I do think in a way that if you wanted to complicate Ella's character a little further, you could be like, there was some cynicism in her getting married so young because she was like, I can't achieve my political ambitions as a single woman. I think that's a better way to frame it if it was like... No one quite says anything like that.

And their flashbacks seemingly cut out, I believe, that establish more of the bedrock of what their early, like, you know, this was like childhood sweethearts, basically. And we're going to take over the world together and, you know. Totally. And like what soured along the way? And instead you get like one scene of him being too slick as a teenager. And then you're like, this guy sucks.

In a crazy wig, too, David. It's not, it's not just Woody who wears a crazy wig. Wigs. It's a wiggy movie. But this is also a problem with the film has to rest on the idea that she made a stupid choice that is now jeopardizing her ability to actually affect change in the

world that was driven by I can't let my marriage fall apart right that she was trying to keep him happy that it's not a marriage of convenience that it's not a you know your role you play the part of the good upstanding guy that she's like I need to reorganize my whole life

to make sure that I'm giving him enough attention which is that a commentary on how women in the workplace are treated or is that in some ways a dim view of a woman in the workplace you know we're in the fucking JLB soup now we're in the chowder where you're like things in this movie that feel dramatically sloppy

if you actually start pulling apart what's he trying to say here, you're like, this is an interesting thing to talk about. Right. Well, I just got a piece of potato. He still has like powers of observation even if he can't totally stick

the landing on all of them. Like some of them he sticks the landing but not the takeoff. You know, it's like such an odd mix. I just want to shout out Jack Loudon on Slow Horses. Do you watch Slow Horses?

I have not seen it since the first season. So in Slow Horses, Gary Oldman plays, you know the farting spy and like the whole well he plays like the head of this like shitty division of MI5 like the British spy you know division right

and the whole thing is that he's so bedraggled and he's farting all the time and drinking and he's this like garbage man but it's as you watch the show you realize like oh right it's a little bit of an act like he knows this means no one takes him seriously he's smart it's an anti-smiley

he uses it to kind of get people you know off And then Jack Loudon plays this spy who ends up in the shitty division because he's the opposite. He can't help but enter a situation like waving a gun around being like, I am a spy. I can save the day. I can save the day. And he's so good at that. I admittedly have not seen a ton of his work.

Oh, really? You haven't seen, um, well, uh, my policeman, isn't that him? No. No, that was Harry Stiles. But what's the one I'm thinking of? That wasn't called 76, but was called 86, but was called 8. If you're talking about the film 76, which is a film, no, that's not what you're talking about. What was that?

I know, is it 74? Yes, that sounds right. That's not him. 71. Is that him? We got there. No, it's Jack O'Connell. You're talking about the sort of IRA drama movie.

Yeah, that was Jack O'Connell. Jack Loudon emerged. I mean, he, you know, he's in little parts in British movies and stuff. Small part in Dunkirk. He's in Dunkirk. Yeah. I would say more than a small part. In Dunkirk, it was kind of like, who's that fucking haughty driving a plane?

Like, alongside, you know, Tom Hardy. Okay. Right? And then he parachutes. Excuse me, he is in 71. He's just not the lead. Oh, you're right. Well, I mean, he's not even in the, like, he's the, like, 17th lead.

Jack O'Connell's the lead of that movie. Who's that fucking hottie driving a plane is what I said at the end of train dream. That's nice. Nice to say that about. about Joel. Yeah, he's in fighting with my family, which you have seen. Oh, yeah, and he's good. I like that movie a lot, and he's, I think, quite good in it. Playing her brother, who's, like, you know, the original aspiring wrestler, right? I saw that. But, like, I never saw denial. I didn't see the War and Peace miniseries.

No, I never saw that. I didn't see Mary Queen of Scots. He's fine in that. That's where he met, uh, Sersia, obviously. He's, he's, uh... If you can get it. Right. He's somewhat villainous in that. I didn't see benediction. Embarrassingly. Benediction is the thing where you're like, okay, so this guy's like a... I know that's a blind spot.

And it has this like extra sadness or sweetness to it because it was Terrence Davies. Like, re-engaging with gay stuff for the first time in a long time. And then he died and he finally did it. Also, it's like, oh, Terrence Davis made a movie about Seekfriza soon who was a British World War I veteran

who was a poet. And you're like, oh, okay. So is this like an elegiacic sad movie? No, no, no. It is about gay guys talking shit. Like, that is most of the movie. It's the cattiest movie of that year. They are all so mean.

But he's really good in that. He plays Sauron and the Rings of Power? Only in one episode. He's the original Sauron because the whole thing with Sauron is that he keeps turning into new hoddies to distract people. So he's young Sauron who fucks? Well, I mean, not that the old, the new Sauron is, they're all young and hot. But yes, you know, Sauron keeps, you know, being like, hi, I'm just a... Got it.

I'm a cool guy. See on Instagram? He is on Instagram. Wait. Oh, Fran Hoffner highly recommends Jack Loudon. Oh, I was talking about Sauron, but okay, he's sort of your type.

Wow, Sauron really likes the Netflix deal. Yeah. Well, I guess that tracks. But yeah, a lot of the big ones I've missed, and I know he's always on these lists of like, these are the exciting young actors. Is the thing, right, that he's consistently been doing. He's always, I feel like, one of these shortlisted guys

for, like, the big parts that are coming up. Right. I do feel like he's good at earnestness, and he's bad casting. in this for that reason where him trying to play a little too slick comes off as like transparently

untrustworthy. And I don't want to sound limiting but I do think it's hard and I think that Emma Mackie suffers from this too. It can be hard to do comedy while also trying to juggle an accent. Yep. David, yes. You know what makes this minute different from all other minutes?

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Who is this? Sex education. Right, which I've never seen that. Me neither. Yeah. So basically. So that's Ace of Butterfield? Margarobi got a Temu clone.

made and that's always been the thing that oh why is how is there this other actress that looks

that much like her sex education is her main project and that has run for like fucking five or six seasons

uh I think it might have sort of petered you know how these hit Netflix shows it ran for like five I think four or four okay

but these Netflix shows they kind of peter out I also feel like there's a lot of cast turner on that show but she basically stayed as one of the consistent elements

for a while she's uh you know all the seasons along with Asa Butterfield and Amy Lou Wood. And, you know, Jillian Anderson and Dr. Who's in there and, you know, lots of people. And they're learning sex education? And Emma Mackey is also in Babylon with Marco Robby? Or is Emma MacB.

It's Samara Weaving, who's the other one they say has the same face as them. So she's in Babylon as fake Robbie. and Emma Mackey is in Barbie as fake Barbie. Right, okay. I never saw the Emily Bronte movie. Is that Dear Joe O'Connell? It was Francis O'Connor's directorial. I wish it was Derger O'Connell.

That's great. I never saw... She's in Death on the Nile, apparently. I did see that, but I'm going to be honest with you guys. That one kind of bounced off me. I think she's actually kind of a big part in Death on the Nile. She might be. She's like the young lover.

Yeah. But I remember this part where one of the actresses says something about The Nile and Champagne. I'll say this. She has very few credits. Like, you actually look at it, and it's like her first movie is 2020. She's in one, two, three, four, five, six, seven movies total.

She's-L. McKay will be the eight. Like, she's playing younger than Ella McKay. And I would say it reads. This was shot two years ago. I mean, this goes back to my original question of, who are they casting as the lead? This is built to be a Deborah Winger, Holly Hunter type thing. But this movie has the three timelines. Well over 50% of the movie is her in her mid-30s.

Yeah, I think. And then there's a little bit of teen and a little bit of early 20s, and they cut most of the early 20 stuff out. There was more college stuff in the script I read. Well, that's good because at present, there is already way too much flashback stuff because it just looks so crazy. I think all the flashback stuff should go except for the stuff at the beginning. The opening is all you need.

Which is really profound, like, and really got me. But in the script. script I read that stuff was circled back to many times there was more sort of going back and forth it's part of what I think is lost I will say even though I don't think it worked dramatically part of what the movie doesn't communicate well is that the idea of the Woody Harrelson scandal is that it became a news story which makes you you get us the briefest sense of that that like he's about to go face the media that he and like that's what's happening in the first scene that like the family needs to prepare for on top of the that he's done something.

It wasn't Monica Gate, but it was the kind of thing that became a weird news story that captured people for a couple weeks of like, oh, this high level person was doing all this bad shit. And so it's not like he still remembered by name necessarily, but like the level of exposure and attention in her childhood or, you know, certainly starting in her teen years, has like absolutely affected the way this person behaves in every area in opposition to it. and that she's aware of the fact that this legacy is attached to her,

that people know her as the daughter of that guy as she is now fighting to try to, like, fix our broken culture. And I think that doesn't totally come across in the movie. Like, her dad sucks and then she grows up. Well, because the dad stuff feels like we're taking brief detours to a different movie that's about that.

Right. Where Woody Harrelson is a much bigger part and Jamie Lee Curtis's relationship to everybody becomes much more apparent than it is in this version. of the movie. Dad stuff also feels way cut down. It was clearer that it was a sort of like making the amends. I need you to grant me this because I'm trying to forgive myself in my life.

I also think that there would be, if you flesh that dad character, that dynamic out more, that backstory out more, it would explain some of Ella's Goody Two Shoesism. That throwaway line about how she vehemently opposed legalizing marijuana. Yes. that was one of the planks of her platform when she ran? It's like, wait, what? No, that totally tracked to me because the 2008-ness. It's like,

that's how much the world has changed, that was considered so radical back then. A progressive Democrat would have run on that... No one fucking supported legalizing weed in 2008. Like, it was truly seen as like, you're going to sound like a... You're going to libertarian. Wacked out hippie or whatever. God,

do you remember... I watch it all the time when the former governor of New Mexico, who's a Republican, became a libertarian, fucking forget his name, ran for like the libertarian presidential nomination, I think in 2016.

And he's at like the libertarian party. Gary Johnson, is that here? Yeah, Gary Johnson. Yeah, yeah. And he's at the libertarian party's like presidential debate. Right? With like the other wackos.

Which is just people milling around or screaming. And someone's like, the next question is, do you support, you know, people being licensed to drive, right? And like, it goes from like every, it's like, uh, no.

Like, what, what next? the license to make toast as like they go through and the Gary Johns is like I mean I think maybe you should have to perform some sort of proficiency to learn and everyone's like boom

there's no winning with that ground I watch it all the guy's just clearly like what am I What am I supposed to say here You get interrupted by a giant bullet Yeah

uh sorry I know I think you're right though that like what you don't get in this movie is that she has so wildly overcorrected for her father. Which is why no one can stand her. Exactly.

It's become rigid and it's not just experiential, but it's also like her trying to fight the optics of how she's going to be perceived every time she enters a room where it's like, do you know that she's the daughter of that guy who 20 years ago? And not just that, but that she's young. She's this prodigy. She needs to overcompensate for being a young prodigy and all that. It shaped her moral worldview.

And then on top of that, it shaped. a defensiveness in how she lives in the world to try to be able to push her moral worldview through without ever bending. Albert Brooks is too old to play her dad, right? When I... But is there a world right where it makes sense that to have Brooks be the dad

and Harrelson be the governor? I read the script. They announced the cast. I went, holy shit. Albert Brooks is going to crush it as the dad. And Harrelson makes a lot of sense. Makes a ton of sense as a kind of like folksy governor people like.

And people like him, but also there's an element of like, He's kind of a little bit too much into showmen and he's just kind of like a corporate politician now and whatever. And I don't think Brooks is bad in this movie. I think Brooks is actually quite good. Yeah, and he nails all his scenes. But he's a little bit, I was kind of like, why did people vote for him?

He just kind of seems boring. Like, he's fine. Here's another thing that I liked about the idea of Brooks playing this part. Not just that obviously, like, it's an inverse of his broadcast news character, but that it's almost like a souring of that guy. In that, like, I think the Jack. Loudoun character is an unsuccessful attempt to make another William Hurt, right?

Where you're like, ultimately this guy is a problem. Yeah. And yet it's really hard to resist his charms. Or a little bit Jeff Daniels in terms of an demerman, kind of. Exactly. No, I think truly. Yeah. And watching it, I was like, who could have pulled this off?

He's obviously never going to make this career move at this point in his arc. But like, if it's Glenn Powell, you know. There you go. Glenn Powell is so good at playing kind of. of a shitbag and be like, God, but I can't fucking hate this guy, which is what you need him to be that I don't think loudest of time. The kind of guy who would genuinely think that even though his wife is lieutenant governor, will now governor, that he's actually the real celebrity. Yes. And without making any larger statement about this, you put Woody Harrelson in this type

of role. And as you've said many times in this podcast, David, you're a slut for Woody. I love him. He's so much fun. Almost any time he shows up in anything. And yet, introduced in this movie, you're like, of course this guy's fucking everyone. There's no tension to that, right? Like the whole Woody Heraldson thing is like, come on, what are you going to do? You're mad of me? I like fucking thing. There's no shock and disgrace there.

But with Brooks. With Brooks, it would be this kind of warping of a broadcast news type guy who in ascending to career power takes-abused it. Yeah, yeah. Out of vindictiveness of women used to never pay attention to me, right? I think part of the problem with a lot of this in general is that, like, I think the movie is afraid of. becoming too dark and cynical, even though it is set in the most dark and cynical, like,

well, the beginning of a really dark and cynical era, but also just like politics in general since forever have been that way. You know that the movie's basically about that battle between cynicism and optimism. But I don't think we see nearly enough of the true cynicism. You have the Julie Kavanaugh line early on where she's like, this story is set in 2008. Remember when people still used to get along? It's like, well, what are you talking about? I mean, like, it's a glib line.

Yeah. It's overly reductive. but it also feels like part of why he chose to set it then. I think he once again wanted to talk about the fallout of the financial collapse and what that did to the citizens of this country and the politicians who were not thinking about them enough and protecting them enough. I think he also is making some comment on Clinton where he's like, oh, she had all these policy ideas, but like she wasn't likable enough. And it's like, sure, that's maybe true. but also that's not why she lost that her, that primary. Also, an Obama optimism of,

is this guy going to come in and actually fix everything? And then you're like, he starts to play the game. But it's really hard and make some terrible decisions. Yeah. It's this fantasy of what she does of, like, rather than play the game, she cuts the deal of like, okay, I'll go away if you, and we don't really know what this is,

but like, do everything I want to legislatively happen. A thing that was also very spelled out. out in the script and has long dialogue scenes where she's like going over what the points are and everyone's being like, oh my God, why are you so annoying about this? There is, but it gets a little yada yada yada yada. Imagine if this movie was called Wonkett. I mean, that's

truly. But, like, I found the scenes where she's like, you know, excitedly trying to explain policy to whoever. Like, the idea is cute of, like, everyone being like, you know, oh, Ella, yes, yes, yes. I think it needs more of that of the idea. of, like, what is she actually? No, it's so boring.

Like, it's just... This is Brooke's shit. Where he's like, I want, like, five minutes of policy discussion that Fox was clearly like, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. I just think it's boring. Like, it's just like,

you know, like, it's what the characters don't like. She's haranguing you where you're like, yeah, I agree. It's good to help moms, or it's good to have dentists or whatever, you know, like... It's also what's tricky about this part

is it's going for the Holly Hunter thing. of like, God, she is so annoying. Why can't she fucking get out of her own way with this shit? And yet, you're still on her side? I liked the gag of, you know, the legislative meeting where it's like the sun has set and everyone's asleep. And she's like,

and then we're going to do this. You know, like, that worked for me as... Him passing the notes saying mention me and then please don't mention me. That was funny. That's the best bit in the whole movie. There's stuff like that that's good, but I think casting a 27-year-old for this movie is fundamentally a mistake. Okay. Who should he have cast? I was

doing this mental exercise, right? Yeah. And I always think about, like, the generation of actresses who basically didn't get to have a movie like this. Like Emma Stone or someone. Who seen Taylor made for it. Although Emma Stone got more comedies than some. Sure. But, I mean, thinking about the people who truly didn't get anything close to this, I was like, like, Alison Bree, Gillian Jacobs. Gilly and Jacobs sprang to mine you. Friend of the podcast, Tatiana Mizlani. Like, people who are like both heavyweight dramatic actors and have incredible comedic touches. But, like, so much of their best work had to be. on TV.

Can do screwball with depth, which is what you really want. You know, you need someone who's, like, got a double-barreled shotgun of, like, tonal control. And I think that McKay is a good actor, but I think that she seems overwhelmed by the juggling that this thing requires. Wow, but Ella L.O. McKay is overwhelmed. Have you seen the day she's having? But also, why is this movie casting based on, like, well, she'll be more believable as a

teenager than if we hire someone in her late 30s and you're like, I truly think it has to be. I truly, that was, I'll just say, that was the explanation I got when they cast it. Right, right, right, right. And just cast a younger actor to play the younger person. Truly. Yes. And it was like, well, the brother has to be three different actors at different ages or whatever, but they want one person to play her in all the scenes,

which I guess makes more sense if there's more of those other scenes, but obviously they should have limited those scenes at the script level. Look, I clearly you didn't like Emma Mackey. I thought he was okay. I was kind of quite charmed by her. Why do I keep saying McKay? Because the movie's called Ella McKay. Right.

Okay. I thought she was all right. I just think the movie is putting an unfair kind of a task on her shoulders. It's a lot. It's big. I mean, look, it's a lot. It crushed a titan like Tealeoni. Yeah.

Granted it a very different kind of part. One of our fine is. But no, but it's big, verbose. Like, you have to hold a lot of ideas that are sort of ineffable, you know, hard to hold it at all. Styelized dialogue. And be charming. And be this. And be that stylized dialogue.

Although I think the Brooksisms are kind of at a minimum in this. They are. There's moments. It's a little more grounded. But I think a lot of it is just the age. Because this movie isn't framed as the crazy story of how, like, a child became the governor of a state, right? Like, it's supposed to be like she's pretty young for a governor, but not like an aberration. To give people the plot of L.M.K., maybe they didn't go see it.

Why not? What the hell? she's the lieutenant governor of her state behind an experienced governor who she used to be the chief of staff to clearly she was a prodigy chief of staff given her age and because he gets a secretary job in the U.S. cabinet

he resigns. Why he has to resign day of is that's ludicrous no one would do that but what that's required for the movie in real life he would wait to be confirmed before he fucking resigned And so she gets the governorship thrust upon her, very surprisingly. And an idea I like is here's a person whose platforms are too radical and is not good at, like, comforting people. If she had to run for public election, she would never get it.

It's a thing that Albert Brooks says. She's not someone who's good at campaigning. No. She's not good at PR. She's not good at being on TV. She's not radical, but she's a technocrat who has all this kind of, like, good government stuff. she wants to do, that's boring, and she doesn't know how to horse trade for it and all that. And obviously, you know, they're of a different affiliation, but it's like, if you have an AOC

or a Mamdani who doesn't have the PR skills. Sure, right, right. Like, the only way in which they're ever actually getting to get into a seat of power is through some weird fluke moment like this. And he says, like, congratulations. They're going to run you out of town. But for at least a little while, you are the governor. Right.

And what are you going to do with that power? Now, that's the main plot. Also, she's married. Her marriage is sort of on the rocks, and she was having lunch dates with her husband in the state office building, and it turns out that's a

misuse of government funds technically, so she's worried she's going to get in trouble for that because a reporter found out about it. And also, her dad, Woody Harrelson, who had a scandal in the family when she was young. Was a prominent doctor who had a... They don't get too...

They don't get into it at all, really. But it was basically caught crossing sexual lines with a bunch of his patients. He's a serial philanderer. Right. He has decided to reemerge to ask forgiveness. Yeah. Okay. Jamie Lee Curtis plays her brassy aunt.

Who her mother dies shortly after the scandal of cancer. Jamie Lee Curtis, the brother, the sister of her shitty dad became her den mother and her voice of reason. Camille Nanjiani plays her body. guard, you know, security detailed guy who she likes. And Spike Fern, an actor I don't really know. No. It has very few credits. He's a young British man. Plays, I'm British.

Why is it so many Brits doing weird accents? She plays her brother who seems to be like sort of agoraphobic, possibly other things. He's divergentment in some way, but has become like a computer whiz, quote unquote, who's become maybe a millionaire because he's sort of a sports gambling expert. He just sits inside

all day on his computer. Savant in some way. And he also somehow managed to bag I-O fumble I-O, that all happened about a year ago, and he's been ruminating on it ever since. While she seemingly waits in her apartment, like a board, waiting to be activated.

That's the Brooksiest writing, is when he's trying to explain how he sort of asked he asked her to be his girlfriend, and then they all freaked out. And because it's all this like circuitous, you know, sort of 10-page scene of like dueling monologues that is such a kind of classic Brooksie highwire act. And I truly was like in real time, like it felt like watching a boxing match where I was like, okay, that one landed, that one whiffed, you know, and it's coming so fast and furious. And I'm like, is he pulling this

off or not? It's hard to tell. It's really hard to tell. That's the thing about the, sometimes when his dialogue is whizzing, you're like, okay, you're like the Maxel guy and you're like, and you have to sort it out later, whether it actually made sense. The idea is that the family history, in the same way that it kind of like turned her into a Terminator, broke him, that him being at a younger age and not having a sense of self at the time that he has to watch his mother die and his father become a public issue, all this sort of stuff. They say that they shipped him off to military school because his dad didn't know how to deal with him. Ella kind of raised him, but then she kickstarts her career, that he is just kind of crumbled as a guy. Which is also, you know, in terms of Brooks wanting to, you know, make manifest things that were. were spoken about at a dinner party.

He's like, I heard that young men are in trouble. Yeah. A little bit. There's a little bit of that. They live on computers now. A little bit. And I think a little bit of the like curse of the gifted child thing of like, was a pressure put upon this kid who was so sharp at such a young age that now he lives in terror

of not living up to what was projected for him. You know, the flashbacks we see him, you know, as a kid struggling with all the scandal. Yes. So it's a lot. It's a lot for the soup. You didn't mention that Becky and Becky and Ben's, Baker plays a richly-be-jeweled pizzeria doyen. They make an additional $300,000 a year by watering down the tomato sauce.

That's their terrible secret. Right, like big beef with them. It's like that documentary collective about the Romanian hospital that watered down the antiseptic. It's the same exact thing. Becky Ann Baker is kind of on fire in this. I mean, it's like the brief performance. She falls into the pizza. I've maybe seen in a movie all year.

Like, it's like you're like suddenly cutting into like this like what feels like Jane Austen's mafia? Is this like a parody of mob movies done in the low stage? She said, say hello to my little friend. It had a whiff of Ben's other favorite movie. I love you to know. It does.

But like, oh, this is like a fucking like Pizza! Pizzeria Gumba! Hey, I'm Italian. You can tell because I have an apron on. We didn't get enough time dealing with the pizza business. Again, right, maybe this movie should be

a Fredrick Weisman-Sk seven-hour auditing. Emma Robert. Emma Roberts, Hayden Christensen. It's called Little Italy. Little Italy. It's not about the Little Italy you think. It's about the Little Italy in Toronto. Rival family pizza restaurants.

And how is that movie? Oh, boy. That's what I'll say about that one. Because, you know, when I see Hayden Christensen, I think Italian. Well, it's also insane because he's like 38 and he's playing like a 21-year-old. Yeah. Is the rivalry between the two pizzerias like, Hey, we make thin crust

And that dirty family Their crust is a little thinner than ours Yeah, and then they So Hayden and Emmett Walder They have to do pod races Of course You know, to fall in love over pizza The only way to really settle it

Yeah, it's quite a movie Yes I think the way Sounds great It's streaming, check it out It's very much about pizza The nature of Woody Heraldson's performance And the way his character is deployed

In this movie And especially because as we said The first 10 minutes of the movie are really front-loading. This is the defining event of this family that will have the ripple effects on all of them forever, right? And that is a thing that was like,

the first trailer did not convey at all. I remember when friends would text me after the trailer and be like, what the fuck is this movie about? I'm like, they're hiding the ball. It is entirely about sex scandals. Everything in this movie spins out of how do people react to sex scandals?

And how does it affect, like, civic understanding of like public figures. Right, but also our personal relationships and all these sorts of things. So if you're like going to see this movie being like, it's like I don't know how she does it. The first 10 minutes, I think, to a general audience, any audience are going to be like,

the fuck is this movie? When is it? What? Like, when is it? How old or young is she supposed to play? What? Here is it. And then every time he shows up in the movie after that, it almost feels like he's like Paul Bettney

in a beautiful mind. Like, it feels magical. Like, he's a ghost of a memory haunting her. He leaves the family and then gets killed by Anton Chigur. He does. So, he's a ghost. Yeah. He, we're all making this movie sound bad when, in fact, it's a delightful romp.

But, um... I think we are alternating between making it sound better than it is and worse than it is when it exists in a fascinating middle. It's another element of the movie that I could almost stand to lose because those scenes, don't really, you know, link in to the main plot that much outside of the larger, like, again, she's sort of just been failed by the role models

in her life. This almost feels like... But like, she's like, I'm in the middle of a scandal and Jimmy Linkerts is like, just one second. Let me yank in here for a second. Woody Harrell says like, please, baby, I'm sorry. And she's like, I'll see you later. He's like, okay. And then she leaves again, you know. Because he's like, he's appearing in this movie in a, like, Gene Carlo Esposito and Brave New World. And let's salute our president,

Red Hulk, right? But where you're like this is late reshoots and because it's stuck into scenes that already existed she has to like turn a corner talk to Woody Harrelson who interacts with no other primary characters and then she returns to her previous scene. The very ending of this movie is like

her resolving her political career and then he just happens to be standing seven steps down the block and is like, so can we resolve that plot thread? I mean, and she is like, no. Yeah, which I kind of like that like it's not a movie about her learning like, okay, you know what? Everyone's

flawed and like, maybe you're flawed too. She's like, no, you're bad. Like, don't need you. Don't need you in my life. And I like that the only thing she wants out of him when he's like, please, please, please. Like, my new wife's a psychiatrist and she says, I have to make amends with you or whatever, you know.

And she's like, I will talk to you if you promise not to bother your son because you're troubling him. And he's like, okay. And she's like, promise. Okay, fine, I'll see you later. Like, that is all she really wants from him. It's like, don't bug, what's his name, Casey, because he needs to learn how to walk to a bakery that I.O. lives above. And you've, like, fucked him up so badly. I'm trying to help him.

He's so beyond, right. Right. Undo the damage. And then once again, once in a while, she gets in the car and chats with Camille for five minutes. And I'm like, this is interesting. I guess this is going somewhere. But I assume many audience members are like, what the fuck was that? You know, what's that now? Right. And Kumail also is, like, not an inappropriate age for how old Ella McKay the character is supposed to be.

Right, but he's a little older than Emma. You're right. Which I do think is, like, an issue. And you're like... He is 20 years old. He's 20 years older than her. And he's supposed to, like... 18 decades.

Reading it, I assume they were a... Camel, you know, looks younger than he is. Yeah. She looks older than she is, I guess. Right. But it does, like, start to feel like a weird power imbalance thing in, like, both directions, you know, where I think, like, in theory there's an interesting tension to this guy who's so thoroughly charmed by her, but knows there is a line he cannot cross.

Even if he sees, like, this marriage is bad news, and I wish he was with someone who respected her. Right. He's not going to, yeah. Right. I have a professional obligation. But when he's 20 years older than her and she's in the backseat of the car, like, stoned, you're like, is he about? to take advantage of her. But also the bad marriage is not apparent enough. I don't know.

I don't know. I mean, he's just, he's kind of a jerk. Maybe everyone can do that. But I feel like the jerk, the real jerk turn where all of a sudden, it's like,

oh, he's going to fuck her over and she's going to like, whatever. That's like, that feels like something got cut. Yeah. Because it happens so quickly. It doesn't play enough,

like, it's like, it should be really portrayed as so fucking evil. He has ruined her life. He betrayed her. Yes, out of basically, like, spite and kind of feeling slighted by her. Because even what he's asking for is preposterous.

Well, I think, which, and it's done in a way where it's, like, kind of, like, light and just like being like, isn't he silly? He's literally being like, I'm going to be co-mayor with, or co-governor with you. Right. Right. I'm going to be the Hillary to your bill basically. That's not a fucking thing. No, that's. It really made me mad. I'm like, fuck this guy. Especially if the backstory of the character. or isn't like they met as like poly-size students together and they hold

the same values and she became the candidate. He's the heir to a pizza fortune. What does he care about being governor? Who fucking gives a shit? He's got way more power than any governor. And I think for this character to work, he has to be so guileless that he doesn't know what he's doing is fucked up rather than this guy feels like he's making chess moves.

He has to either be like, yeah, a calculating equally politically ambitious guy or a dukees. Who is so good at pretending he's a normal dude? Or a badly bumbling duf. I bought that he was stupid, that he tips off the reporter by being stupid, right, and pays off the reporter because he's

stupid. And then when he's like, so, will you give me more cred and more to do? And she's like, no. And he's like, well, then I'm just going to have to divorce you and say it's your fault. And she's like, okay, he's doing it because he's like, well, I guess I just have to do that now. I guess.

But then there's a... Then there's the scene where it implies that, like, Becky and Baker is like Mama Mia McBeth. You know, and you're like, wait, but that, that's not necessary, because that's a whole different movie. I'm not a different movie. David, I'm going to surprise you with something. This is kind of one of the most shattering.

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so order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Please mention us at that checkout. It's interesting. I feel like you will hear often tellmakers and screenwriters talk about, you know, where did the idea for this movie come from? And they're like, you know, it's funny.

At first, I was trying to write something like this. And then when I got 30 pages in, I went like, oh, this other thing I've discovered is more interesting, and you rewrite the script and you take out the original animating idea. Yeah, that's the crucial part. You take it out. James O. Brooks is the guy where every time he makes a new discovery, he adds it on top of the original thing.

And you're saying, like, could you just drop the Woody Harrelson thing? Right. And it's so clear to him where he's like, well, that was the whole idea. That's where this all started. It's the starting point. I hear you, buddy. He wanted to make a movie about a really good breakfast sandwich, and then he discovered Spanish while he was writing it. But I mean, it's the flashbacks thing, which obviously some of

were shed. There's also, it's like, I think James L. Brooks, if you were Kelly Furman Craig and you gave him a screenplay, would give you the sort of smart, like, I know how movies were made and I know how movies work

and what's successful. The smart notes to help you streamline your script. Same story with Wes Anderson and Cameron Craig. Yes, the guys he mentored in the 90s. And like, whereas this, you know, if I went up to him and I said, like, hey, your movie keeps stopping in his fucking tracks

for these flashbacks that like completely kill the momentum, he would be like, no, no, no, but you don't understand. Like, you know, like, that's all part of this, you know, idea I have, right? You know, he wouldn't maybe take his own note. But that's kind of what's magic about James L. Brooks. There's nothing like these movies. Well, it was what was apparent reading it to me of like, huh, these threads all don't really come together.

It's not like, by the end, you go like, oh, fuck. It was all building up to, you know, this moment of character catharsis or whatever it is. And, like, maybe that's a thing he'll find while shooting it or he'll find in the edit. And instead, it just feels like rather than excising certain elements from it entirely, certain elements have just been minimized so much that you're like, why is this even still in there? I don't want to be ageist, but I feel like a 35-year-old James L. Brooks is like a bit more nimble to be on set and be like, all right, this isn't working. Let's try this. Blah, blah, blah. Whereas 80, whatever year old James L Brooks is like, I don't know, I wrote it. Let's just shoot it. Then we'll go

home. Which is also maybe the area where no disrespect to Emma Mackey, You need someone who is going to be so comfortable in being the lead of a movie and has carried a movie of the size on their shoulders before and is tested in, like, comedy and rom-com and all this sort of stuff where they're also being a little bit of a taste gauge rather than, like, what do you want, James, you know? And I understand the, you even see the interviews that the cast has been doing for this movie. And they're like, why did I agree to do it?

Because it's James L. Brooks. Of course. To the end of the earth, people will still be like, well, I mean, Jamie Leigh Curtis is like, since the 80s, I've been like, when is this guy going to give me a call? And for someone who has been... And I read an interview with Brooks in T.H.R. where he basically, it's a paragraph, a quote paragraph about each of like the 10 stars of the film. And he calls Jamie Lee Curtis one of the best people I've ever met in my life.

Has he met, like, two to three people? Has he met Taleyone? I'm simply referencing that apparently Jamie Lee Curtis can be a bit of a tough cookie, guys. I'm not saying she's one of the worst people in the world. James L. Brooks was a magic worker for a time, right? And it's like if you're an actor, whether you're new or you're a hyper-established legendary movie star, if you hand yourself over to him, good things are going to come from him. And you look at a script and it's just pages and pages of dialogue and dialogue.

And you're like, it's like doing a play, but I'm getting paid way more. You know, it's like that must be so wonderful. And even when he whiffed and you're like, okay, so they're danger zones. It might not work every time, but it's worth. the risk. And we'll have, we'll have an interesting time on set trying to find the piece. And if it doesn't get found in the edit, then whatever. We at least got fulfilled on set. Right. I mean, his first four films get like 10 acting nominations and three wins. Yeah, it's pretty impressive. Yeah. Well, I'll do anything got most of those, right?

Yeah. Absolutely. Uh, well, in terms of endearment, of course, one best actress and best supporting actor. And got two additional acting noms. Broadcast news. Three acting ones. Got three acting nomination. Sadly, one zero. I'll do anything. Got 17 acting nominations. Zippo. And this goes a guest got three noms and two wins. Yeah. Pretty good. Yeah. That's quite a track record. Right. And Spanglish, I was nominated for war crimes at the... And two Saturn awards, David.

You know, my old review of letterboxes, like, if you made this now, you go to jail or whatever. It's like a joke of your view. But the problem with letterboxes, people just will find reviews. And they'll be like, why did you say this? And I'm like, I don't know. I was just kidding. It's like, you know, it's a silly thing to say. Letterbox blogs are what happened in between sandwiches, you know, it gives us shit. You know what? Spanglish doesn't want to you either. That's fine. Yeah. Okay. It doesn't need to want me. We walked out of the theater. You said, I loved it. Yeah. Tell me, Spanglish. We walk out of the theater. You say you

loved it. You nail the pose outside. And then you got more sober and you looked at me and you said, I'm really going to have to do some thinking before we record this episode. And I went in what way and you went, I don't know. It's just interesting that I clicked so much with these late period James L. Brooks movies. And I haven't quite figured out what it is that's speaking to me. I'm an out of touch white guy. Is that the conclusion you come to?

I think for this particular, it's like your zen and white. what if Ben said as means of an explanation as if you guys do like all my Simpsons money I'm fucking I'm one of the producers of the Simpsons.

You know that I'm Sam Simon's son, right? You design Martin Prince and were baked into a contract that will never ever end. You guys haven't noticed I'm sitting on a golden throne with a cape? Your solid gold house

and your rocket car? Oh, Jester J. I'm quick. I locked into the local politics of it all because my dad was heaven involved in local politics in New Jersey and in my town. And I just, I really love that aspect of the film.

So, I don't know, just enjoyed that part of her character being really, like, wanting to make a change and wanting to do good in a hyper-local way. I connected with that. I also think to go back to him being so interested in telling stories of how does a woman actually maintain a career of consequence. in a society that's not necessarily built to be conducive to that activates your Kiki's delivery service thing

of like a person out there who really cares about what they care about and want to do something and the whole world's kind of pushing back on them. You do really spark to that kind of underdog especially when that's driven by like an optimism and a humanism. Right. Right.

And I support that. And they push through adversity and they come out on the other end and it doesn't always work out. out, you know, the exact way or the dream way they would want it, the ideal way. But I kind of like that you're seeing the character find this compromised future for themselves, running their own nonprofit. And it's a little hokey even to, like, see Kavanaugh and Kumail working.

Like, I don't know, but I just, it's a warm bath ending. It's a warm bath movie. Like, at this point, watching this movie in the year 2025 almost feels like you're watching, like, an S&L digital short parodying this type of movie. It feels more pastiche than a real thing, even what you're talking about of, like, the idea of casting two familiar faces in a big budget studio dromedy where the comedy isn't setpiece driven. And it's like, how can you throw the lines back and forth and how well can you, like, hold a close-up and shit like that? It does. There is a warm bath feeling to this, which is why I think we're all like a little protective of how hard are people going to trash this thing? This sounds corny, but this is the kind of movie. It's the kind of movie. Oh, well. A thousand Rylaws points. That it wants you to care

about people because they're people. And it wants you to care about its story because it's a story about people. And that is like in such short supply because everyone has to have like an added thing or, I mean, to be honest, like a sort of issue grafted onto them or a power grafted onto them. And this is just like the kind of movie where it's like, well, it's a family. Don't we care about families? And when you see power you mean like the powers

of Superman? No, the power book for the book of Gabriel or whatever. But it's something you said earlier, Kiki's in Dime Square has a deliver that that looks great Greek. No, it's Kiki Duns and Jesse Clemens deliver their baked goods to your home. I saw someone on Twitter the other day when the

Spirit Awards and nominations were announced, and Kirsten Duns, which is exciting, got a nomination for Roof Man. Hell yeah. And I saw one quote that was like, I think totally serious being like, I thought she retired and it was like, what? She did.

Was that a story? No. I mean, she took a bit of a break, but at this point that was kind of a while ago. She was nominated for an Oscar like four years. She talked about that all the parts she got offered. Post power? Pissed her off,

where it was a lot of suffering wives. Right. And so she didn't make another movie. until Civil War, because that was the first thing she got that was like, this is different. And Roofman is also different. She's so good in Roofman. But I think she's very much like,

I'd rather not work than do shit I don't want to do unless you're willing to fucking pay me. Put me in a superhero movie, I got kids to pay. Yeah, she's got all that, whatever. Kind of the Michelle Williams vibe. Yeah. I think James L. Brooks, when he is in the pocket, his magic is, to your point, Ben,

being able to have very, very lovable characters do deeply, deeply unlikable things and having kind of contemptible characters win you over at times. And in that way, he can, like, capture the messiness of, like, people are complicated, you know? And when he gets that right, it really feels so wise and well observed and that he can handle those tonal shifts, you know? I mean, like, broadcast news is the peak of this for me.

The scene where Albert Brooks goes from the kind of charming version of a duckie mind. monologue to actually being evil, and yet the movie isn't framing him as like, well, obviously, this guy should go to jail, you know? And I feel like this movie is a little more cut and dry in terms of who the bad guys are and who the good guys are. Yeah, and I was kind of trying to develop this theory of like, you watch terms, you watch broadcast news, and you're like, terms obviously, like, you can sell that on like, well, Aurora is a really larger than life character.

But I don't know. You watch that movie now and you're like, no, it's a movie that's just about a family and about a mother and a daughter who have these, whatever. Broadcast News is just about the people who work in broadcast news. And then it gets a little bit, then, like, I'll do anything, whatever. But then it's good to guess it gets more character-driven, like high kind of concept character-driven.

And I think that's where, as much as I like that movie, I think everything Post struggles to kind of regain the, it's just a movie about Blank. Totally. Totally. You know? Yes. And this is trying to.

to return us to it's about it's a movie about people in local politics it's the closest he's gotten back to what he's really good at in such a long time and my excitement for this movie was like really being held in moderation of just like a i'm just so happy he's back be having read it there are elements of this that excite me but i'm just like if this thing has moments i will be happy. I've talked about in other episodes, but I like gave, how do you know, a rewatch in the last year to be like now that we don't get this kind of movie, will I be

warmer to it? And there's the odd occasional defender. It is repellent, I think. I come around to so many of the late period crow movies that I'd struggle with. No, I agree. And how do you know just fucking clings off the backboard and it like makes it break out in hives? And when people

were like, it's got like a couple performances or like some lines are good or this scene is good or whatever. The one scene where he's filming Catherine Hahn in the hospital. No, I'm saying about Ella McKay. Oh, yeah, sure, sure. I started getting so excited where I was like, if any percentage of this is in a good pitch, I will be thrilled. And, like, some of it is.

Yes, I did not hate it by any means. I wanted more for it, but didn't expect more from it, if that makes any sense. I just, like, I think, I mean, I'm leaning more towards Ben's side of things where it's like, this is just like a nice kind of movie. wish that it existed more and sure it has flaws but like again i'm dreading the snark about it because come on like and also like disney is dumping it so hard that now like you know a week before it's wide release at the time we're recording this uh the like simpsons is marketing this and that doesn't feel like disney strategic synergy that feels like james l brooks three months ago was like yeah yeah truly it feels like it's the email you send your friends saying can you come to my show

Right. They're not giving me... He's papering the house now. He's like, I'll pay for the... Any support, so can I use the one thing I do control? And now Marge and Lisa are standing outside the theater being like, it made me feel good. You know, and like...

We need sensible comedy. I mean, she is a bit of a Lisa, right? Totally. She's a big of more than a bit of a Lisa. Which, like, that's a great analog for what this character is in the best case scenario. Right? Where you're like, even when she's being... strident or annoying.

There is something so human to her in her vulnerability, you know, in her trying to figure out how to manage being a person in the world. And I don't think, like, the movie completely fails on that front, but it doesn't find the magic of, I'm nuts about her. Well, there's nothing peppery about her, like there is Holly Hunter or Deborah Winger. Or? Little cup of pitaia. I mean, that's a cup of.

Straight pepper. Not even pepper in water, just pepper to the brim. God bless her. This one was coming out next. Although her political career was more successful than Ellis. She became secretary. Madam Secretary. Yeah.

That is so true. She did. This one's coming out next weekend, right? Next Friday. The 17th? No, the 12th. When does this episode air? Yes.

This episode airs on the 14th. What, I think it was... Okay, okay, sure. So it's coming out two weeks before Avatar? one week before Avatar. Got it. So, you know, coming out this weekend

at the box office is five nights at Freddy's 2, which seems like it's just going to stroll to like $50 million. A friend told me a funny thing about that. What's that? Well, he texted me. He said,

isn't it interesting that there are about 20 negative reviews out for it that are on, you know, Universal-owned Rotten Tomatoes, and yet they haven't posted a score yet for the Universal film? Hmm.

Yeah. They didn't do the, like, the thing where the numbers, like, it's going to be? What's it going to be? And then it's like 12. It's weird. I'm seeing here it's the first movie to be

100% Freddy. We've been given a score of Shelby Oaks. Oh, God. What if they just create a different like, oh, it's not a tomato. It's a... It's a Hutcherson. So, Five Nights with Freddy's

Utopia and Wicked, I guess are all hanging around. There's nothing else in the box office mixed until Avatar, right? Like, there's no other big player swinging in. Am I right that Avatar and Marty Supreme are the same weekend? No, you're wrong. Avatar is the 19th along with, of course.

Oh, no. Oh, no, yeah, no, no, along with, well. Is this single? But that's the limited release. Marty is getting like very limited 19th, but Marty is launching on Christmas. The wide is Christmas, and that's also Anaconda and SpongeBob. Indeed. And the housemaid, I think, is also coming up the Avatar weekend.

That's being projected to make a lot of money. That thing's crushing in pre-sales. Really? Yeah. The book is, like, huge. Is that all it is? I'm just counter-programming. And this is the kind of stuff that people want to see Sidney-Sweeney and not dour movies about abused boxers.

Yeah. I do find it fascinating. I mean, it speaks to the we all live in different realities thing now. We're like, I'm someone who's fucking on the prowl for movie shit and trying to stay tapped into everything. And there is not a single iota of marketing for the house made that has hit me. I would agree with you. I'm not seeing much. The trailer is in theaters. I'm not seeing shit online.

And, like, they're clearly selling it successfully to the people it's made for. I guess so. What were you going to say, Richard? I was just going to say that, you know, the people, well, we were talking about the soft mic about Pillion, but the people that are seeing housemaid ads are the people who want to see Pillion. You know what I mean? But I'm just assuming box office wise that this movie is going to be the sort of sole wide release and open, like, number eight.

You know what I mean? Like, it'll be like, five nights of Freddy's and Zootopia and Wicked continue to do pretty good. Ellen McKay also opened. It is this thing that is spinning

the industry into a state of panic that is entirely self-created where they're just like, well, if L.M.A.K. is the only wide release that weekend, I guess it will have to do okay. And you're like,

that is some fucking 1997 thinking. And there was even still, like, faint traces of that in, like, 2017? People are inevitably going to go to the movie theater, so... Right. But there used to be this default. They check the showtimes on Friday and go, we'll just see whatever.

My sister, when we were in Rhode Island in summers, we would just call the repeating phone answering service and write down the times and whatever fit we saw. That's why I saw like the Leave It to Beaver movie in theaters, because it was the one with the right showtime. It was why it was valuable to have a movie open on 2,000 screens because saturation would just basically short of an atomic disaster that was usually driven by like intense negative feelings.

Right. That like you would just get default walk up business. Let's go see a movie. Right. And I don't think that's gonna happen here. Maybe we're wrong. Maybe it makes 40.

I hope I'm so fucking wrong. But the fact that it's opening without competition and then we're going to get some headline of like, this is the worst weekend before Christmas or two weekends before Christmas in like fucking 10 years. And I'm like, what do you guys want?

You like didn't release anything commercial for two months and then put $3 billion movies within three, four weeks of each other, they're, like, sucking up all the oxygen because you didn't spread them out. Were you funning me, or is the L.M.A.K. Post thing, actually an online thing.

We're trying to make it a thing. A lot of people are doing it in a jokey way on Twitter, but I think it's more of a film Twitter thing. Like, film Twitter people, okay. It's not like TikTok. It's not like gentle minions or anything. I don't think so. How great would it be if it had

some fucking, like, you never know. Anyone but you lip sync TikToks. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like some weirdly surprising viral thing that somehow sells it. Like, what if it performs like fucking a greatest showman? Like, it opens to three and everyone's like, oof. And then weekend two, you're like, it's up 250%. Is that that circus musical?

Yeah. Yeah. What were you going to say, David? Oh, just it opens to three and then makes three for 29 more weekends. A small drop. Three, three, three, three, three, three. Ending up at a robust domestic total of 30? It's how kids learn basic math.

Like, what's three times seven weeks of LMAK? Oh, boy. No, it'll probably open to a black hat or so. Let me, let's, I just want to circle back to two other things. Because I feel like the younger brother is a total dud is the sentiment I keep hearing for everyone who's seen it. And I came loaded for bear, especially having read that script and been like, fuck, this part is interesting. if not incredibly tricky to pull off. And I kind of liked him,

if only because I think the worst version of that character is someone doing 8,000 fucking really loud tics. And I appreciated his choice to be to understat. Well, they tried to get Justin Bartha just a reprise's gilly roll. That feels like the nightmare of what I was worried. It was going to be when people told me the kid was bad, where I'm just like, he's going to be like fucking touching the doorknob 20 times

and like screaming. He's just like pouty in a way that people don't like when certain young male actors do that kind of role. I don't know who would be good. I don't know. I don't either.

It's a little bit of an impossible part in how he set it up. Yeah. I do, the performance I quietly really like in this movie and a scene where I was like, this feels like

fucking classic James L. Brooks' magic is the other part of her security detail who's trying to get overtime. because he's going through divorce and needs money to raise his kids. But that scene, I mean, is truly out of nowhere.

And one of those things where you're like, did I forget that I went to the bathroom or something and this guy was set up earlier? Because it is James L. Brooks magic, I agree. It's the classic James L. Brooks thing. But you're like, this is not the movie we've been and who is this guy?

Do you want to know? Can I reveal to you guys? Please reveal to me. That is a young actor named Joey Brooks, who is the son of James L. Brooks who I how to how to get cast in his dad's that is such a weird coincidence that he ended up in that movie when his dad was the director I know that's

so crazy I really like him and he's got like doesn't work that much but he's got one scene in the big short yeah I remember I just I'm looking at his Imbi and I remember that scene and I remember being like who is this guy he's got interesting dialogue rhythms and an interesting energy and an interesting phase it is John McGarro and Finn

Thin Witt Rock, try to go to take a big meeting. Yeah. And their receptionist comes downstairs and gives them the polite brush off. Oh, that's him. Was sent down to, like, test if they're worth his time. And he's really good in it. And then he was like, McKay clearly likes him a lot. I think he's got a small part in Vice or don't look up.

He showed up on winning time. He's like my age. He's like mid-30s. There are a couple other things he's been in, but I always think he's interesting. He's in Molly's game. He's in Molly's game. He plays like one of the young, yeah. He's in 17 episodes of winning time, a show I watch.

It does feel like McKay always casts him. Probably through some connection to his father. But I think he is actually the rare case of like... That scene is wild, man. It's a wild scene, but I think he plays it beautifully. Sure. Sure. Yeah. And on paper, you're waiting for the explanation of why is the scene in this movie. It's the director's son.

But also it gives Ella a chance to be kind of a little annoyed about it where it's like, oh, she's really principled, but also principle is not taking into account that sometimes people need extra money. Again, I don't know. It's also working in this pseudo-romantic plotline she has with Camille that does not actually come to fruition, but I feel like there's the

vagus hint in that final scene of like, oh, maybe there'll be something there. Because he quits his job to work with her. Which is also a reshoot, by the way, the movie is supposed to just end with she steps down. I'm stunned to learn that that bizarre scene was a reshoot

the scene where they're like, do you want to tell her? I'll tell her. Okay, here we are. We can announce that you have fed a very specific number, like 9,482 moms or whatever it was. Like, it doesn't, it's very strange. But it also feels like. But it's nice. But it's nice.

It feels like a test screening note of the movie ends with she's resigned and she's 34 with the fuck does she do with the rest of her life. Exactly. She's doing something. Right. I like when people help moms. Okay. Sorry.

Sue me. I liked the movie, too. I like that she wants to help people. It'd be funny if she was like, she takes power and she's like, okay, great. How can we hurt the point? We took food away from 9,000 families. Doesn't two weeks notice end with Sandra Bullock also working at legal aid? Possibly.

I mean, that's the greatest movie ever made. I feel like going to work for legal aid is how people resolve, like, a lawyer story. Yeah, where it's like, don't worry, they're not evil anymore. They've left the poisonous system. Yeah. I met someone the other day, and I was like, what does your wife do? and she was like, oh, she's a lawyer who works at a nonprofit for, like, fighting eviction. And I was like, oh, so she's a sellout. And the person I was making friends with didn't realize that I was joking.

Oh, they thought you just threw. Yeah, yeah. I was like, well, sorry. Yeah. Okay, as much as I liked that it ended with everything working out and her being, you know, the nicest lady, it would have been kind of cool if, like, you see the back of a chair, and she turns around, she's smoking a cigar. She's in the mob now. That would be good.

She went totally evil. And then a pizza comes flying at the screen. Yeah, right. And then it drips down and then cheeses is the end. Exactly. That would be good if the cheese in tomato sauce. That is, I think if audiences reject this movie... They can add that in there.

No, I was going to say that's probably the reason why. You know, the Monday morning quarterbacks are going to say, like, it really needed to send audiences out on a high note of seeing the end spelled out and cheese slattered against the screen. The Ninja Turtles needed to... to be vaguely abhorped. Ella McKay, how can we help? Leonardo and Raphael show up.

This movie is either radical nor bodacious and all five. The Ninja Turtles are from Rhode Island. Ella is sort of a hero and a half show. Look, this is and this is why Ben isn't a good mood. He's got a big smile on his face. Our last record of 2025. It is in fact.

Oh, wow, that's significant. I don't think I've ever been here for the last record of anything. Griffin is going on a work vacation. He's doing a little work. We're not going to talk about that. I know what it is. Pretty cool. Because it's top secret. I just want to remake up the film talk secret. I don't want people speculating too largely about it

because I feel like Ben has been doing some wind-up because it's an exciting thing. I think it will just be a fun surprise to people when they see. You're going to be in one of Barney Frank Stagg films, and I think that's great. Correct. It's a good part. The script is good. You say the same thing. on next week's episode, which covers the film.

What's it called? Avatar, colon, the way of water? No. Fire and dash. I just know our Reddit is going to be like, wait a second. Is Herbie talking in Doomsday? Is that why? It's not.

It's not. But it will be a fun thing when it is made public. So next week, on Black Check, we're talking about Avatar, Fire, and Ash. Then we're taking a week off. Then we're talking about, is this thing on? We're going to take a week on to talk about this week, that movie. Yeah.

And then we'll talk about Park Jamwicks, no other choice. But to remind people in our week off first episode of Critical Darlings on this same feed. And then it will come out every Thursday after that through the end of March.

Through Oscar stuff. Yeah. And then after that, as you said, we're doing Lynn Ramsey after Park Jenwick. And Peter, we were after that. And Peter, we were after that. And after that, I don't know.

I don't know. Lynn Ramsey from something about Mary? Yeah. Yeah. I looked at a lady up the other day because I wanted to use her photo. The tan lady. Magda. Yeah.

Yeah. She's great. How's she doing? She's all right. It's got a lot of, you know, thoughts about. Yeah, she's the governor of Rhode Island right now. Great. Cool.

Great. So, I mean, updated James Luprox rankings. Ben, do you like this more or less than Spanglish? No, Spanglish still. This is my top. That's your number one. Well, no. No.

Between the two. Okay. Yeah. Because I feel like I go broadcast news, terms of endearment, as good as it gets, this. Then I go spanglish. How do you know or I'll do anything? Pick your point. Also, it's like which cut of I'll do anything in my prioritizing?

I think there's more and I'll do anything I like, even if the worst of it is more disastrous versus like, how do you know kind of just making me feel bad from beginning to end? Making my teeth. Yeah, I think any ranking I would do would have to put it. How do I know at the bottom? Yeah. Because, again, as you said. Work, you did.

Thank you. Great stuff. Thank you. You are the best. Remember that? You can do anything. I mean, I do. Yeah.

Well, that's a now an epilogged end to our James L. Brooks mini series. I don't think I'm ever going to come back for another James L. Brooks movie. I mean, maybe you're wrong. It would be astonishing. The Simpsons 3 has to... He's an older man. They got to make Simpsons 3. The Simpsons 2 thing is interesting.

Yeah, sure. We appreciate him. We appreciate him. For all the flaws, we appreciate him. We do. I mean, yeah. And we appreciate you the listener. But of course, this isn't the last episode of the year,

so I shouldn't be too over the top about all this. It is for us. But it is for us. It is for us. It is a... Subscribe to the Premier Party newsletter, please. Please do. Paul Newman's going to have my legs broke.

And stay subscribed right here for criticism. darlings. Yes. And next week we're going to get all fucking horned. Oh, yeah. We're going to meet varang. Verrang. Richard, have you met varang? Oh, I've met varang. Yeah, I sure have. Do you want to throw out a quick vering take just since you're not on that episode? And what a penny seagull's parties. Pagan's Seagull. Fuck.

I think it's a great performance that's underuse. Yeah, that could have been more for a range. Here's what I'd say. They left me wanting more. Potent leaving. That's okay. Red means bad. Fire. Fire bat. Fire bat.

There's some, well, there's some racial stuff in that movie that I'll be curious to hear you guys talk about. Oh, we don't. You think that movie is disrespectful to Thanators. Pretty much. That's, yeah. It treats them all as savages. That's right. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me.

What a treat is always. And now that I'm, I don't know, almost part of the family, I'm very grateful. You've always been part of the family. You've always been part of the family, but now you're like married by law into the family. Now I own the pizza empire. Yes.

Married by law to Rylaw. Hey. There we go. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate review and subscribe. And as always. Emma Mackey is Ella Mockay. David's nodding.

You know,